# 1965 Front sway bar issue



## wishihaditback (Jun 9, 2011)

My '65 goat has the 15/16" front sway bar. I took off one bracket and bushing, pictured painted black and the bushing wallered out and went to find new bushings and the problems began. I couldn't find any suitable replacement bushing specifically for the 15/16 bar that fit the black bracket. Moog calls for bushing kit K5241 for the 15/16 bar, pictured in the silver bracket. Obviously it is too tall for the black bracket. The bushing on the right is for a 1" bar. Looking at the Ames catalog I saw that the brackets called for appeared that they would accommodate the taller bushings (the silver one). Problem one, the bushing is about an inch taller than the bracket. If I can get the bolts started, will the bushing compress fully when tightened? Problem two, altho Moog says K5241 is for the 15/16 bar, you can see in the picture it doesn't fit around the bar. Does it compress around the bar if the bracket can be tightened to the frame? So, I can start a few threads of the bracket bolts....should I go ahead and start cranking on them and see if everything compresses? Has anyone else run across this and/or replace the bushings? Are the black brackets not stock and from some other application and got installed at some point? I seriously didn't think replacing the bushings would have been difficult. Thanks for any ideas and/or suggestions.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

The stock bar bushings are indeed a PITA. If the bushings are aftermarket they may even be a bit harder of a compound rubber.
I find warming them a bit helps. 
You are correct in as far as setting the bolts and drawing them in a little at a time back and forth/bolt to bolt.
The bushings have to be squashed quite a bit.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

wishihaditback said:


> My '65 goat has the 15/16" front sway bar. I took off one bracket and bushing, pictured painted black and the bushing wallered out and went to find new bushings and the problems began. I couldn't find any suitable replacement bushing specifically for the 15/16 bar that fit the black bracket. Moog calls for bushing kit K5241 for the 15/16 bar, pictured in the silver bracket. Obviously it is too tall for the black bracket. The bushing on the right is for a 1" bar. Looking at the Ames catalog I saw that the brackets called for appeared that they would accommodate the taller bushings (the silver one). Problem one, the bushing is about an inch taller than the bracket. If I can get the bolts started, will the bushing compress fully when tightened? Problem two, altho Moog says K5241 is for the 15/16 bar, you can see in the picture it doesn't fit around the bar. Does it compress around the bar if the bracket can be tightened to the frame? So, I can start a few threads of the bracket bolts....should I go ahead and start cranking on them and see if everything compresses? Has anyone else run across this and/or replace the bushings? Are the black brackets not stock and from some other application and got installed at some point? I seriously didn't think replacing the bushings would have been difficult. Thanks for any ideas and/or suggestions.


Doesn't look like the correct bushing & bracket. Look at your take off in the middle. The bushing should not stick way out like the bushing/bracket on the left. The bushing should be near flush with the bracket as I recall. Compressing the bushing will not close it up and you shouldn't need longer bolts.

What is wrong with these?






1964-72 GTO Prothane Black Front Sway Bar Frame Bushings ...


YEARONE Classic Car Parts for American Muscle Cars | Barracuda Cuda Challenger Charger Chevelle Road Runner Camaro Super Bee Dart Duster Valiant Firebird GTO Cutlass 442 Mustang Nova GM Truck Skylark GS Monte Carlo El Camino Mopar Chevy




www.yearone.com


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> The stock bar bushings are indeed a PITA. If the bushings are aftermarket they may even be a bit harder of a compound rubber.
> I find warming them a bit helps.
> You are correct in as far as setting the bolts and drawing them in a little at a time back and forth/bolt to bolt.
> The bushings have to be squashed quite a bit.
> ...


Look at the set shown at YearOne. The rubber seems to be flush/even with the brackets. I am not an expert on the '65, but on my '68 I used a set similar to the YearOne aftermarket set - which were the polyurethane.

Seems having to compress them that much would be too much?


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

IMO if they aren't clamped tight then they will not hold as intended. I'll admit the images shown look dramatic but they compress and bulge.
Thus why the OE brackets have those small tabs to assist in keeping things centered/in place. 
Even these AC bushings are harder them the old OE which IIRC were real rubber, not synthetic.

Some mentioned trimming a bit off the top but think this defeats the design, but not totally out of the question.
If you feel the need to do so a very sharp hot knife is likely best. I would go in small increments as well.

That last set I did I used a floor jack to assist in getting a load on the bushings.
If you think these bad try a 1&1/8" TA bar with Urethane bushings, that was fun


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## wishihaditback (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. Jim, nothing wrong with the items in your link i guess, but I'm already in on the cost of the new bushings and brackets shown and don't really want to increase costs. It would have been great if I could have found just the right sized bushing for the black bracket I took off which would closely match those in the link, but I couldn't find any. Those bushings have the "collar" on them and may have been polyurethane, I dunno. Jr., thanks for the photos and install advice. Are the brackets you showed the originals for a '65?


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## wishihaditback (Jun 9, 2011)

The Moog bushing squished down nicely and without a problem. I was skeptical since the bushing hole didn't seem large enough by eye to fit the bar but everything filled in nicely. One pic is on the driver side. And of course when I moved to the right side, one bracket bolt wouldn't come out....just spun. I figured a few of the last threads had stripped and tried prying in the little space I'd created between the bracket and frame hoping to catch a better thread or two. Didn't happen. I was able to fit the handy dandy saws all blade in the gap and cut the bolt then reached in with an expandable magnet and latch on to the upper part of the bolt inside the frame through the hole marked in another pic. Apparently the stripped bolt had been an issue at some point in the cars life and and someone added a nut to the bolt inside the frame which ultimately caused my problem There is a pic of it as well. The threaded hole in the frame is too large to fit the stock bolt so I'll find a larger replacement. I add all this in case someone has a similar issue and is looking thru threads for help.


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## 7TGoat (Aug 3, 2014)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> IMO if they aren't clamped tight then they will not hold as intended. I'll admit the images shown look dramatic but they compress and bulge.
> Thus why the OE brackets have those small tabs to assist in keeping things centered/in place.
> Even these AC bushings are harder them the old OE which IIRC were real rubber, not synthetic.
> 
> ...


Yep, Urethane and a 1.25 TA bar = Steers like a go cart


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## Machinest-guy (Jul 19, 2019)

I've been doing suspension work for a long time - starting in the 1970's. The rubber bushings you buy today should be considered starting points for fit - not a finished product. Sad but true. The center support bushings don't need to be tight. In fact can be (should be) modest slip fit and lubed if they squeak. Trim the ends with a band saw or sand on a belt sander. Be careful they don't grab and get tossed across the room. It is hard to cut them with a knife. If you look on an Indy car or some sprint cars or Foumula V or about any serious race car the sway bar is mounted in bearings...... for zero resistance to bind and grab at the center supports. And they have heim joints at the ends so there is zero friction there...... Just the torsional suspension movement forces on the bar are introduced to the metal from end to end. In the old A bodies and others we used to stack front sway bars up to get enough roll resistance into the chassis. There were about 3 bars of different thicknesses back in the day. If we ran double bars we'd have plenty of combinations to tune with. More than that just flexes the frame at the kick ups unless the car is reinforced.

And never powder coat a sway bar. It can change the heat treat of the bar and turn it into useless ballast unless the oven is really watched and controlled to under 450 degrees. Some coaters run the ovens hot and fast. This melts the coating quick and doesn't hurt the metal as much but some guys run the ovens slower or bake overnight. This heat soaks the metal and anneals it. You must know what your coater does if you want to have constant results from coated bars. The rubber bushings fit about right when you can rotate the bar in the bushing by hand up and down with maybe 20 lbs force or a bit less. Then hook up the ends. Good luck.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

7TGoat said:


> Yep, Urethane and a 1.25 TA bar = Steers like a go cart


Is it a 1 1/8 bar or 1 1/4? And does it really make that much difference? I had a friend give me what I thought was 1 1/8 and has been sitting in my shed.


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