# Car totally dead - no electrical power - please help!



## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

So my '64 has been running perfectly fine. I hadn't driven it in 2 weeks and went to start it this afternoon. I turned the key, I believe I had power to the dashboard for a brief second but no crank. I also believe I heard a faint noise and now everything is completely dead. No courtesy lights, clock not working, nothing at the ignition switch in any position. 
Battery has 12 volts and is brand new. So not the battery.
Where would ALL power be getting cutoff from the car once beyond the battery? I have a solid connection with the negative cable to the engine block. I also have solid connection from the positive cable to the post with the horn relay. Where should I focus on failure points?
What other components are part of resting electrical current? 
Does everything run through the ignition switch?
Does everything run through the starter?
Does everything run through the alternator?
Thanks!


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

have you checked your wires on the starter see if there tight? clean battery and cables.


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Does dome/courtesy, headlights, etc. depend on the wiring at the starter? I haven't checked wiring down at the starter itself. It's going to require me to pull the starter to check those. I can but wondering if that's the failure point for all power?


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

your buddy for 12v power issues



https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-32900-Circuit-Tester-Jumper/dp/B000TTFWX2


.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

you might also want to check the connection between your wiring harness and fuse box. I don't know about a 64 but on my 68 this is located on the fire wall drivers side slightly to the lower right of the brake booster as you are looking at the fire wall. My money would be on the starter connections/ wires.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

Check the connection at the Fuse block bulkhead on the firewall side.
I had an intermittent power loss as you describe and unbeknownst to me one of the retaining tabs on the engine harness had broken off.
This would cause a come and go total loss of power and I finally pushed in on the harness and the power would resume,
happened a few times before I found the actual issue with the tab.
Spent a lot of time looking for and testing things beforehand.


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks everyone. I'll be digging in on it this weekend. 
I'm still wondering if it's a starter wire, would that kill all electrical in the car? 
Could it be ignition switch? I have the same question there. I believe ignition switch only impacts accessory and starting circuit. But can't claim I have much depth on the subject.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

First, go back to and start with the battery before chasing any electrical circuit.

saying 12 volts is not completely valid......

A battery is fully charged at 12.6 Volts
It is 75% charged at 12.4 Volts
It is 50% charged at 12.2 Volts
It is 25% charged at 12.0 Volts
It is completely discharged at 11.8 Volts......but below 50% charge it starts it is very weak.

You need to retest with load tester and recharge or swap with a known good battery.

once verified move on to check cables and grounds from battery and at engine frame etc.

Then do your circuit testing, you need full power to test the circuits.

Good luck, you will get it!


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

PS...Brand new battery does not mean it is at full charge. I test and often have to charge new batteries as they sit on the shelf in the store and discharge as well.....so just make sure before you start!.....


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks. Battery is newer and was on trickle charger. Could that have some how messed it up? I have another good battery so I'll give that a go as the first move.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

RockyIce said:


> Thanks everyone. I'll be digging in on it this weekend.
> I'm still wondering if it's a starter wire, would that kill all electrical in the car?
> Could it be ignition switch? I have the same question there. I believe ignition switch only impacts accessory and starting circuit. But can't claim I have much depth on the subject.


If you follow your positive lead from your battery terminal it goes directly to the starter. you have threee wires on your starter. 1-goes to the positive lead on your battery. 2. Small thin wire goes to the ignition switch and engages the starter when you turn the key to start. 3. this wire goes to the same lug as the battery cable, this feeds your fuse box. I hope this helps.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

deanhickey said:


> If you follow your positive lead from your battery terminal it goes directly to the starter. you have threee wires on your starter. 1-goes to the positive lead on your battery. 2. Small thin wire goes to the ignition switch and engages the starter when you turn the key to start. 3. this wire goes to the same lug as the battery cable, this feeds your fuse box. I hope this helps.


One other thing I am not sure about is that some models had a fused link on the wire going to the fuse box. If someone with more knowledge of the 64 model could give you better info on that then me.


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks Dean. The 64 actually has a positive junction terminal near the battery. It routes a positive wire to the starter and a positive wire to the fuse block at that junction. So the only wires at the starter are main positive and a purple to operate the solenoid. That’s what has me thinking it’s not the starter wiring since positive wire to fuse block isn’t fed at the starter.


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Also, I have a convertible and the wiring for operating the top comes straight off the battery. So going to start by swapping battery even though it’s reading 12.95V on the meter.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

if you have a multi meeter you can check the continuity starting at the battery. just a thought.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Right, It has a surface charge at 12.95, but test it with load tester or swap with known good battery, then verify cables are tight and engine and frame grounds are tight and clean, then start checking your circuits.....


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Even a loose battery cable can make it dead...

so do what you are, Battery verified, then Cables verified, then big grounds, then circuit checks


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Update, look no further than the battery!
I had purchased a higher end Diehard battery (if there is such a thing) with a flat top in order to use the vintage battery top. Sure enough, I put my older battery back in and she came right to life!
Sigh of relief as I had just rewired the whole car 2 months ago and didn’t want to have to start chasing that down!


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Battery tested out okay so must have been a weird connectivity thing?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Maybe connectivity,....but did you load rest it?....or just use a volt meter.....

A load tester is the proper tester it checks the amperage under demand or”load”....


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## RockyIce (Jun 2, 2018)

Yes, took it to auto parts store.
plot thickens though - went to start it again, had power to the car, turned to start and everything went dead. Turned key off and on again, everything dead. Disconnected the negative battery terminal and reconnected it. Got power back, went to start and everything dead again. I repeated the process and then got it to start.
so this behavior leads me to believe the solenoid is bad and sticking. Removing power is unsticking or resetting it and then it will intermittently work. Does this seem like good logic from everyone’s else’s perspective?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RockyIce said:


> Yes, took it to auto parts store.
> plot thickens though - went to start it again, had power to the car, turned to start and everything went dead. Turned key off and on again, everything dead. Disconnected the negative battery terminal and reconnected it. Got power back, went to start and everything dead again. I repeated the process and then got it to start.
> so this behavior leads me to believe the solenoid is bad and sticking. Removing power is unsticking or resetting it and then it will intermittently work. Does this seem like good logic from everyone’s else’s perspective?


It could certainly be the solenoid as they do go due in part to their location close to the exhaust manifold.

But it could be the battery cable. You did not say if your cable ends are good and clean. Do you have the cables with the ends molded on or have you had to cut the cable ends and are using one of those universal replacement ends that you fit the cut/exposed copper cable into and tighten down a plate with 2 bolts to cinch it into place? _ These will corrode badly over time and give poor contact.

Get a battery terminal wire brush that fits over the battery terminal and you rotate it to clean off the oxidized lead and brighten it up. The other end of the cleaner will have a small wire brush that will fit into the battery cable end and will clean it up. I like to put a light layer of grease on the battery terminal to help curb oxidation build up.

Then put your cable on and tighten it down. I have seen where the cable end is too large for the battery post and you cannot tighten the bolt tight enough to get a good squeeze on the battery post. You should be able to tighten down on the nut/bolt to get it secure and still have some space between the battery cable end that is doing the squeezing. If the 2 sides come together and you don't see any space between them, then you may not be getting a secure enough clamp and connection between the cable end and battery post. You should never be able to twist the battery cable back and forth on the battery post once tightened. If you can, then another indicator the battery cable is not clamping correctly and is too large or the battery post is too small.

If that does not work, then I am all for the solenoid replacement and you can check the battery cable connection at the same time.


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

I had a similar issue recently. My issue turned out to be a poor connection from the wiring harness to the ignition switch. It is pretty easy to remove the ignition switch on '68 and older and test with VOM outside the car. LeMans guys related the best order to diagnose (which I followed)


Lemans guy said:


> Even a loose battery cable can make it dead...
> 
> so do what you are, Battery verified, then Cables verified, then big grounds, then circuit checks


The under-dash wiring harness / wiring to the starter can be tested if (need a buddy) you take a long 10ga wire and jump directly from Battery positive to the SOLenoid contact on the plug-in connector. (MAKE SURE IN NEUTRAL if is 4 speed.). It should crank if the wiring from the ignition switch to the solenoid is good. It won't start b/c the coil is not powered with the ignition switch out of the car.

The next test is to jump between the SOLenoid contact and BATtery contact locations in the on the plug-in connector. This should also make the starter crank. Again it should not start. This will tell you if the wiring from the fuse block to the ignition switch is good.

If the switch and the 2 circuits are good - then the connection between the plug-in connector and ignition switch is the issue. Clean it up / WD-40 - plug it in tightly and then it should work. At least that is what solved my issue.
Hope this helps.


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## Montreux (Mar 8, 2009)

Sounds like you already know the answer. If you have a battery cable to a junction block and a battery cable to the starter from the junction block, with a large (#8 or #10) wire going to the firewall, then the big red wire is the single-point failure you’re looking for! It’s probably a fusible link (check you’re wiring diagram). Fusible links can get “crispy” in their old age, and do strange things like intermittent failures.


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## gtomike455 (May 24, 2020)

RockyIce said:


> Does dome/courtesy, headlights, etc. depend on the wiring at the starter? I haven't checked wiring down at the starter itself. It's going to require me to pull the starter to check those. I can but wondering if that's the failure point for all power?


you don't need to pull the starter out to check the wires. make sure nothing is grounding out. after you check the battery 1st.


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## Pecosbill (Dec 9, 2008)

Check those battery cables. I had a similar thing happen once on my 64. The cable appeared to be okay, but when I replaced it (the positive one) the problem disappeared.


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## Scott06 (May 6, 2020)

Pecosbill said:


> Check those battery cables. I had a similar thing happen once on my 64. The cable appeared to be okay, but when I replaced it (the positive one) the problem disappeared.


x2 on this ohm the cable end to end you'd be amazed how much resistance a bit of corrosion inside the wire will do. Ive seen this with both boats and my GTO. I was chasing a break inside the insulation on the power window circut of my 65. thought it was the ground through the hinge... added ground wires back to cowl, still intermittent had a broken wires inside the harness was evident by a higher resitance (ohm reading) than what you'd see on a wire alone


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Just stick a screwdriver to the starter wire and the positive. If it cranks its not your starter, positive /negative cable or solenoid. Go fro there.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

deanhickey said:


> If you follow your positive lead from your battery terminal it goes directly to the starter. you have threee wires on your starter. 1-goes to the positive lead on your battery. 2. Small thin wire goes to the ignition switch and engages the starter when you turn the key to start. 3. this wire goes to the same lug as the battery cable, this feeds your fuse box. I hope this helps.


I do electrical in homes never done a car but you finally said something that really helps with my knowledge of auto electrical. Always told" oh elec in cars is simple' it is if you know the basic diagram.
Thanks!


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