# I challenge to see real numbers not opinion



## Jcoin (Mar 1, 2008)

As I continue to read this forum the same question keeps appearing, what are the best headers and what is the best cat back system. My challenge is to see numbers from the dyno. No more opinions because you have the part on your car. I wanna see some real numbers. If possible I would love to see two people from this forum with opposite setups (e.g. SLP vs Kooks) get together and have their cars dynoed at the same time and see what the real numbers are. Theres the challenge.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

That's a valid challenge, but I doubt anyone will pony the coin to put this issue to bed. I suspect the Diff. is marginal at best regardless of the LT manufacturer. Also, the chances of two Goat owners only having LT's and no other Mods. is slight at best thus making the Dyno runs NA. This issue will live on I suspect. You can check-out the Dyno sheets posted by the manufacturers, but again how real/accurate are those numbers?:confused


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## vxssls1 (Sep 9, 2006)

that isnt really a far comparison 
best way would be before and after dyno runs,that would give a real idea of how much hp has been gained


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## sniper.x611 (Jan 30, 2007)

First to get a "real" comparison test you would have to use the same car, because two cars will put down different numbers, period. 

Start with a stock setup including the stock tune. Then put on header set "A" dyno and tune, because we all know to get the most you need a tune. Then you would have to remove set "A" flash the PCM back to the stock tune and put on header set "B". Then you would have to tune again. All the while you would have to let the car cool and make sure temps and such were as close as possible.

Man even the tuner is a variable.. Especially because tuning is almost an art form. So you could just dyno both Set "A" and "B" without tuning from the stock flash.. but thats not to say one set wouldn't take an advantage with a tune.

In the end I think your probably not going to be able to easily make a "This set makes 1hp more" statement without more hassle than its worth. Good request though.. I wish it were that easy.


Sniper.


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## 05_GTO (Mar 1, 2006)

Dyno numbers are worthless. With the big brands (kooks, stainless works, qtp) I highly doubt you will see more than a 1-3hp/tq gain. 

To do this correctly it would have to be done on the same car. The DA would have to be the same during each dyon run and you would have to retune for each header. I doubt ANYONE is willing to spend the time and money to do this.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Jcoin said:


> As I continue to read this forum the same question keeps appearing, what are the best headers and what is the best cat back system. My challenge is to see numbers from the dyno. No more opinions because you have the part on your car. *I wanna see some real numbers. If possible I would love to see two people from this forum with opposite setups (e.g. SLP vs Kooks) get together and have their cars dynoed at the same time and see what the real numbers are.* Theres the challenge.


WOW what a crappy attitude and a question with way too many variables! There is no way you're going to get an accurate number when you use 2 different cars... PERIOD! The only way you're going to get an answer to what you're asking is if *you* go out and buy every header available, use the same dyno at similar ambient temps and get the results you're looking for? Then you can form your own opinion on which one you want. You come to a forum, ask a question and say you don't want opinions? How is that even possible?


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

Jcoin said:


> As I continue to read this forum the same question keeps appearing, what are the best headers and what is the best cat back system. My challenge is to see numbers from the dyno. No more opinions because you have the part on your car. I wanna see some real numbers. If possible I would love to see two people from this forum with opposite setups (e.g. SLP vs Kooks) get together and have their cars dynoed at the same time and see what the real numbers are. Theres the challenge.


 I have asked the same question myself when I was shopping for headers last year. Several people would tell me what their gains were but no one showed a sheet to prove it. I did a lot of reading , contacted makers and looked at several web sites and even contacted several installers. The longest lasting headers seemed to be KOOKS or SLPs. As far as HP gains they all seem to be just about the same. I don't think any brand has a big advantage over the rest. My searching told me MOST if not all LTs will come within a few HP of each other depending on your mods & bolt on items. I went with the less expensive Pacesetters, I can't say for sure what my gain was because I had a few other items done at the same time. But most likely it will be in the 14 + HP area.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Does anybody have these LTs on there GTO?


GTO 2004-05 LS1/LS2 Dynatech SuperMaxx Long Tube Header System - DT-115-734300S


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## Jcoin (Mar 1, 2008)

The question was asked by 6QTS11OZ, Why would I come to a forum and ask a question and not want an opinion? We'll I think you you read the complete title of the thread, it says I wanna see proof, NOT opinion. For example you say your car makes 500 horse, do you have the dyno sheets or do we take your word. A wise man once told me opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. Facts are undeniable, proven, and tested.

The whole point of this thread was to have people prove what their cars numbers are, this would intail putting your Dyno sheets on the forum. I apologize If I ruined the opinion party.:willy:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

It`s already been explained, unless YOU use the SAME car and dyno in between the different set-ups, there`s no way to get the results you want. Asking people to post their dyno sheets with different cars and different set-ups/tunes is not proving or disproving which header and CAT back is going to be the best on your car.


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## Jcoin (Mar 1, 2008)

I do agree that the only way to get the exact numbers is to use the same car and conditions.(You are completely correct with that) My goal for this post was to have people display their dyno sheets, this could help people see the difference in the settings that their tuner may have used. As we all know some tuners are better than others. The other point I was trying to put to rest is that one system (Headers, cat back) won't show that much more hp than another brand.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Rukee said:


> It`s already been explained, unless YOU use the SAME car and dyno in between the different set-ups, there`s no way to get the results you want. Asking people to post their dyno sheets with different cars and different set-ups/tunes is not proving or disproving which header and CAT back is going to be the best on your car.


Exactly! :cheers I really don't understand why something like this has to be explained.



Jcoin said:


> The question was asked by 6QTS11OZ, Why would I come to a forum and ask a question and not want an opinion? We'll I think you you read the complete title of the thread, it says I wanna see proof, NOT opinion. For example you say your car makes 500 horse, do you have the dyno sheets or do we take your word. A wise man once told me opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. Facts are undeniable, proven, and tested.
> 
> The whole point of this thread was to have people prove what their cars numbers are, this would intail putting your Dyno sheets on the forum. I apologize If I ruined the opinion party.:willy:


As far as my dyno sheets go you can click on *My Photos* to the left and see them. I don't have the latest one posted but I do believe I have one when I made like 513/501 @ 8 PSI before I made changes. 

Or you can talk to bluhaven or gm4life, 2 members here, who were with me when I got my car dyno tuned. 

Or you can call my tuner, Richard at MagnaFlow in Rancho Santa Margarita, CA., and have him send you a copy of it. 

Or better yet, politely ask me and I'll give them to you.

Regardless, I hope you find what you're looking for.


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## Jcoin (Mar 1, 2008)

That is what I call pure facts, thats all i'm looking for. Thanks for shutting me up.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Jcoin said:


> That is what I call pure facts, thats all i'm looking for. Thanks for shutting me up.


:cheers I really wasn't trying to shut you up or anything but I can relate to not getting facts when you want them. Trust me, on some of the other forums getting a dyno sheet is like pulling teeth.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I think if you would have just asked for dyno sheets with mods and tune info listed instead of asking for only exhaust mods be dyno`d and compared, you would have had different results.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

John, 

Heres something else to think of. I've seen back to back dyno tests of headers and catbacks. When I had one of my past Mustangs, a place I got a lot of my work done was used by MM and FF for a comparo. They used 2 cars and found that in one case, this header and catback setup A made 25 hp on car A and on car B made 27 hp. They then took header and cat-back setup B and on Car A it made 31hp and on car B it made 22hp. They also found that header A with exhaust A made more than header B with exhaust A, but header B with exhaust B made more hp than header A with exhaust B. So the whole system matters as much as the header choice. 

There isn't one answer that is going to show you what is the best set-up. Most of the top brands are quality. Most will be within a couple hp of each other. Talk to a speed shop that you trust, and follow his suggestion. 

Plain and simple, that is the only answer.


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