# 1971 GTO Positive Battery Cable for 400?



## Gconsult (Jan 15, 2018)

1971 GTO 400 Positive Battery Cable having a hard time finding SIDE MOUNTED one. Most options say they only work for 455 motor. Anyone know a vendor and/or how many inches is the cable so I can have one made. Or a picture of one??


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## cij911 (Oct 25, 2017)

I made my own and incorporated some design improvements along the way.

Pick the gauge you want - most will say 4 ga. is fine, but you could go with 2 or 0 -- all sold at any auto parts store by the foot.


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## Gconsult (Jan 15, 2018)

Thanks for the picture. I was hoping there would be a very specific one that would be like the original factory one. The car I am working on did not have any of the accessories, cables, etc. Only the engine. It looks like you have a solenoid between the starter and the battery---is this original??


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Gconsult said:


> Thanks for the picture. I was hoping there would be a very specific one that would be like the original factory one. The car I am working on did not have any of the accessories, cables, etc. Only the engine. It looks like you have a solenoid between the starter and the battery---is this original??


The solenoid is not original. Some guys like to add a Ford solenoid.


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## cij911 (Oct 25, 2017)

Gconsult said:


> Thanks for the picture. I was hoping there would be a very specific one that would be like the original factory one. The car I am working on did not have any of the accessories, cables, etc. Only the engine. It looks like you have a solenoid between the starter and the battery---is this original??


This is not original, but makes the car much safer as the cable to the starter is ONLY hot when cranking. Also I purchased a battery with the poles in opposite position as I did not want to have the positive terminal so close to the fender. The other wires have fusible links so there really is no chance of an electrical fire.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

cij911 said:


> I made my own and incorporated some design improvements along the way.
> 
> Pick the gauge you want - most will say 4 ga. is fine, but you could go with 2 or 0 -- all sold at any auto parts store by the foot.


This setup with 2 or 0 gauge would be what I would recommend highly.

If you are doing a restoration, then I would recommend this from Ames, the best and oldest Pontiac supplier in the USA: https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/Search_Web;jsessionid=EF401175E06662242F1CEA3B2865452F

Best of luck!


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Have not ran across '71-72 side terminal cables properly reproduced. Aftermarket positive cables that are close in length as well as GM service replacement positive cables avail in the 80's & 90's & now sold on eBay as "nos", LOL, have a small lead that comes out of the molded side terminal end. 

Length wise, the side mount negative cable is the exact same as used on a '71-72 B series with 455. The '71-72 side mount positive cable is slightly different length than the one used in the B series chassis, am watching for the box with several of these original cables. On '71 & 72 455 HO A-bodys, the positive cable is routed differently, through clips that parallel the bottom of the block versus typical Dport deal where there is a vertical tube to route the positive cable down to the starter solenoid. this routing also contributes slightly to the length. Def the way to go if running RA manifolds.


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## pontiachristopher (Jun 28, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> The solenoid





cij911 said:


> I made my own and incorporated some design improvements along the way.
> 
> Pick the gauge you want - most will say 4 ga. is fine, but you could go with 2 or 0 -- all sold at any auto parts store by the foot.


is there already a solenoid on the starter? thats a second one? what about the two other smaller terminals on the ford solenoid? thank you


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## pontiachristopher (Jun 28, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> The solenoid is not original. Some guys like to add a Ford solenoid.


does the 65 have a solenoid on the starter already, so that ford solenoid is a second? also what about the two smaller terminals on that ford solenoid?


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

pontiachristopher said:


> does the 65 have a solenoid on the starter already, so that ford solenoid is a second? also what about the two smaller terminals on that ford solenoid?


Yes, your GM starter has a solenoid. It functions exactly as the one pictured, which is a Ford type. The difference is that a GM starter has the solenoid mounted directly onto the starter motor. This means that the heavy gauge battery cable is uninterupted all the way to the starter motor, thus hot all the time. There are advantages and disdvantages either way.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

pontiachristopher said:


> does the 65 have a solenoid on the starter already, so that ford solenoid is a second? also what about the two smaller terminals on that ford solenoid?


Is there a way to edit posts? Meant to add....
The small posts on the pictured solenoid are where the switch wires connect, the large posts are where the load leads attach. Both solenoids have the same (basically) connections. You just can't see your GM solenoid unless you get under the car...or maybe if you have headers....


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Yes, the Pontiac starter already has a solenoid as do all GM starters. A Pontiac starter can experience what is called "heat soak" due to the position of the solenoid near the exhaust manifold or headers. You can shield the solenoid with an aftermarket aluminum shield that fits/bolts over the solenoid to help keep heat off it.

Often heat soak can also be due to too small of a battery cable wire gauge size, especially when replacing with store bought cables which can be a smaller gauge than needed. You want a "2" gauge or "0" gauge cable.

Any form of corrosion will create additional resistance and the solenoid may not get the needed amps to crank the engine as well as it would when cold. The corrosion can build up inside the casing/wire even though it looks good on the outside. This includes the Purple wire that runs from the ignition switch to the "S" terminal lug on the solenoid.

Improper timing or even high factory compression ratios will make a starter labor when the engine is hot. It is not a starter problem, it is a timing/compression problem.

The Ford solenoid is a fix that some like to use and add to the starter system. I am a little ignorant on just how this works because you still have to run a battery cable to the GM starter solenoid which is what kicks in the starter gear that spins the engine.

I would not wire up a Ford solenoid. Just does not look clean and you have to run wires. And it is too easy to jump and steal your car.
The other alternative is to use a mini starter which allows you to rotate the solenoid away from the exhaust manifold - like the RobbMc mini. It also has more torque to crank the engine faster.

Here is a discussions in using the Ford solenoid.








Robbie Mac/Dougs


I recently put a set of Dougs headers on my 66. I am now installing the new Robbie Mac starter with the rotating solenid. Has anyone run this combo and found a good way to run the wiring? It looks like the best way is to still run it through the headers similar to the way the wires previously...




www.gtoforum.com


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Yes, the Pontiac starter already has a solenoid as do all GM starters. A Pontiac starter can experience what is called "heat soak" due to the position of the solenoid near the exhaust manifold or headers. You can shield the solenoid with an aftermarket aluminum shield that fits/bolts over the solenoid to help keep heat off it.
> 
> Often heat soak can also be due to too small of a battery cable wire gauge size, especially when replacing with store bought cables which can be a smaller gauge than needed. You want a "2" gauge or "0" gauge cable.
> 
> ...


The reason it's "safer" is because only the cable over to the solenoid is hot all the time, but the cable down to the starter is only hot when in crank in a "remote solenoid" setup. This also cures hot solenoid, no crank situations as obviously, the solenoid is wherever you put it. 
Could not agree more that this is FORD folks. It has no business in a GTO.
Take care when you rounte your wires. Shield them as they should be. All will be well!


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## pontiachristopher (Jun 28, 2020)

Mine'sa66 said:


> Is there a way to edit posts? Meant to add....
> The small posts on the pictured solenoid are where the switch wires connect, the large posts are where the load leads attach. Both solenoids have the same (basically) connections. You just can't see your GM solenoid unless you get under the car...or maybe if you have headers....


thank you. thought the ford solenoid splice could be a simple remedy. but i think i will start with the new battery cable ends, notice some greening around the positive clamp wire and the cable may be compromised farther underneath the plastic coating. although have been using starting fluid when the car won't start hot and it fires right up. or the old bump start if gravity is in my favor


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## pontiachristopher (Jun 28, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Yes, the Pontiac starter already has a solenoid as do all GM starters. A Pontiac starter can experience what is called "heat soak" due to the position of the solenoid near the exhaust manifold or headers. You can shield the solenoid with an aftermarket aluminum shield that fits/bolts over the solenoid to help keep heat off it.
> 
> Often heat soak can also be due to too small of a battery cable wire gauge size, especially when replacing with store bought cables which can be a smaller gauge than needed. You want a "2" gauge or "0" gauge cable.
> 
> ...


thanks, thought the ford solenoid could be a quick fix. have been using a couple squirts of starting fluid in the primaries and it fires right up, hot and all. or the old bump start if circumstances allow. probably a few small kinks, as you mentioned the timing , compression, corrosion... i do get that pinging sometimes starting off lately. chalked it up to 93 octane with 10% ethanol gas. the motor is a 1968 ye code 400. 340 hp, 10.5:1 comp


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Mine'sa66 said:


> The reason it's "safer" is because only the cable over to the solenoid is hot all the time, but the cable down to the starter is only hot when in crank in a "remote solenoid" setup. This also cures hot solenoid, no crank situations as obviously, the solenoid is wherever you put it.
> Could not agree more that this is FORD folks. It has no business in a GTO.
> Take care when you rounte your wires. Shield them as they should be. All will be well!


OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I understand why. But, not being argumentive, even though the stock cable has a constant 12V all the time to the solenoid, how does this cause a hotter temperature at the solenoid? You are still having a battery cable going to the solenoid which will get heated up by the same heat that affects the stock cable, so you are not eliminating any heat from the Ford solenoid battery cable set-up, nor the factory GM solenoid.

Corrosion in/on the battery cables can increase the resistance (flow of the electricity) through the battery cables. Electrical current flows due to the exchange of electrons through atoms. As electrons move through a battery cable, some collide with atoms, other electrons, or impurities (corrosion). These collisions cause resistance and generate heat rather than supply the full voltage to the starter.

Heat should only build up in the starter motor as that is where this energy is being used. If the terminal on the battery is not making a good connection, heat is the result. A poor ground cable where it connects to the engine or the body can cause premature failure of the starter motor by burning its brushes due to increased resistance. Some cars can fail to start simply because of a bad ground and by connecting a jumper lead from the negative battery terminal to the engine they will start. 

I found this description and testing that seems easy enough to read and understand. We have seen issues in the past were it was also the ground straps from engine to body and engine to frame that have caused electrical problems which were solved once these were either cleaned, replaced, or added.



Voltage Drop Testing


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I understand why. But, not being argumentive, even though the stock cable has a constant 12V all the time to the solenoid, *how does this cause a hotter temperature at the solenoid?* You are still having a battery cable going to the solenoid which will get heated up by the same heat that affects the stock cable, so you are not eliminating any heat from the Ford solenoid battery cable set-up, nor the factory GM solenoid.
> 
> Corrosion in/on the battery cables can increase the resistance (flow of the electricity) through the battery cables. Electrical current flows due to the exchange of electrons through atoms. As electrons move through a battery cable, some collide with atoms, other electrons, or impurities (corrosion). These collisions cause resistance and generate heat rather than supply the full voltage to the starter.
> 
> ...


It doesn't. I was referring to why it's safer, I used the term "hot". I should have said "live". 
Having a live wire down to my starter isn't a concern for me. I make sure it's routed/shielded correctly and that's it.
Hot starter, no crank issues are almost always due to heat soak from close by exhaust parts. Usually headers. It can be the solenoid (The Ford type solves this) or the starter motor windings
Occasionally you see hot starter failure due to current. This won't be a solenoid issue, but rather the windings...trying to crank an engine that does't want to crank for a myriad of reasons. Prolonged cranking due to no run situations. Poor connections. Or just cranking off a poorly charged battery...ohms law will get you. Any of those and more will overheat your starter....sometimes permanently.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I understand why. But, not being argumentive, even though the stock cable has a constant 12V all the time to the solenoid, how does this cause a hotter temperature at the solenoid? You are still having a battery cable going to the solenoid which will get heated up by the same heat that affects the stock cable, so you are not eliminating any heat from the Ford solenoid battery cable set-up, nor the factory GM solenoid.
> 
> Corrosion in/on the battery cables can increase the resistance (flow of the electricity) through the battery cables. Electrical current flows due to the exchange of electrons through atoms. As electrons move through a battery cable, some collide with atoms, other electrons, or impurities (corrosion). These collisions cause resistance and generate heat rather than supply the full voltage to the starter.
> 
> ...


I'll share a funny story about how a low battery can cost you...
We had a late model Volvo XC come in for dead battery issues.
Start simple, test battery=bad, replace, test system=good. OK, easy.
Car sits in the bay for a few hours before it gets driven out. I jump in it to go. It's a push button starter and this one is like early 2000's GMs. You turning the key (or pushing the button) doesn't actually control the crank. You turn to crank which sends a signal to the PCM, which engages the starter.....until the PCM "sees" that the engine is running. You releasing the key doesn't stop the crank. You aren't in charge of that, the PCM is, and you said start.
So I hit the button on the Volvo....oh boy, I got the whole story now. This thing must have a dead short 'cause the starter is turning at about 2 RPM. I release the button, nope, push it again, nope, thing's trying to crank at like 9 volts and that's causing the amp draw to probably be 500. Now the smoke is rolling out from under the hood. That starter and wire are melting in front of our eyes...can't do anything about it. Battery in trunk under spare....one of my techs is furiously trying to dig down to it. Too late...it stops cranking as the starter melted down.
Low battery=new starter.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

I've seen the Ford selenoid deal on many cars at Goodguys shows. Here is a link to MAD Electrical which sells the kits (as does places like Summit) but MAD explains the whole thing real well where as Summit does not.





__





Catalog






www.madelectrical.com





Hope this helps. Either way, do use "2", "1", or "0" cable as JIm recommended.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

The battery and solenoid are in the trunk of my racecar. I used 000 welding cable for the battery wires and the multiple ground wires.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I get why a hot rod might use the Ford solenoid so as to take advantage of the battery studs for things like the 1-wire alt. or hooking up power feeds.

I get that you are disconnecting the battery cable to the GM solenoid. I get that you are now attaching a battery cable from the Ford solenoid right back where you just took off the GM cable.

I get that you are removing the Purple "Start" wire to the "S" terminal post on the GM solenoid and are now running a jumper wire from the battery cable lug on the solenoid to the "S" terminal.

I get that you connect the battery cable from the positive battery terminal to one side of the Ford solenoid's battery lug, the other battery lug has the cable that runs to the GM starter solenoid lug along with the jumper S "Start" wire.

I get that there is no power going to the GM starter using the Ford solenoid as a 12V power cut off switch, and with the old GM set-up the battery/12V is constant to the solenoid.

I get it that the Purple "Start" wire that went to the GM "S" solenoid post now gets attached to the smaller "I" post on the Ford solenoid and when you turn the key to "Start" that this opens the flow of electricity between the battery post-to-solenoid lug and to the opposite solenoid lug-to-GM solenoid battery post. I get that by doing this change over in location of the Purple "S" from the GM solenoid to the remote Ford solenoid removes it from being near the heat of an exhaust manifold or header.

Here is what is listed on the MAD description, "The problem occurs because the large solenoid on the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to "START." And that large amount of current must flow through a very lengthy circuit, from the battery to the dash area. Through dash wiring and switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, finally to the starter."

OK, the activation of either the GM solenoid or Ford solenoid is still being activated by the Purple "Start" wire, all I did was move it from the GM solenoid "S" lug to the Ford solenoid "I" "Start" lug. HOW DID I CHANGE/ELIMINATE the current flow through a very lengthy circuit from Ford solenoid lug to the dash area, through dash wiring and switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, and finally to the Ford solenoid "I" lug??????

Enclosed is a drawing that is my example for the above. I still have to connect the 12V power wire that was attached to the GM solenoid that brings power to my circuitry/fuse box. So the current flow HAS NOT changed going through the lengthy wiring circuit because it still has to in order for it to energize my ignition switch that sends power out along the Purple "Start" wire to activate the Ford solenoid through the "I" lug. So all I am doing is swapping my GM solenoid 12V power wire that supplies 12V to all my switches/gauges/accessories to the 12V battery lug on the Ford solenoid having the battery cable going from the battery post to the Ford solenoid lug - I will still have constant 12V going into my wiring circuitry, just not to the starter. AND, depending where I mount the Ford solenoid, I may have to extend/splice the 12V power wire/Purple "S" wire to reach the remote Ford solenoid.


MAD also says, " *(2)* *SLOW CRANKING, a gr-r-runt, gr-r-runt. This kit (Ford solenoid) won't fix it!* You'll need to work with ignition timing, battery cables, the starter, and the rest of the system."

Another website compares the GM set-up with the Ford change over and states, "This set-up DOES NOT make the GM solenoid any cooler. It just gives it a better current supply." Well, better current supply may also depend on battery condition, cable length & gauge size, good connections, good grounds, and any corrosion or frayed wiring that can lead to resistance.

I get why a hot rod might use the Ford solenoid so as to take advantage of the battery studs for things like the 1-wire alt. or hooking up power feeds.

I get that you are disconnecting the battery cable to the GM solenoid. I get that you are now attaching a battery cable from the Ford solenoid right back where you just took off the GM cable.

I get that you are removing the Purple "Start" wire to the S terminal on the solenoid and are now running a jumper wire from the battery cable lug on the solenoid to the S terminal.

I get that you connect the battery cable from the battery to one side of the Ford solenoid's battery lug, the other battery lug has the cable that runs to the GM starter solenoid lug with the jumper S "Start" wire.

I get that there is no power going to the GM starter using the Ford solenoid as a interpreter/cut off switch, and with the old GM set-up the battery/12V is constant to the solenoid.

I get it that the Purple "Start" wire that went to the GM solenoid now gets attached to one of the smaller lugs on the Ford solenoid to create the connection between the battery post -to-solenoid lug and solenoid lug-to-GM solenoid battery post, and that it is removed from being near an exhaust manifold or header.

Here is what is listed on the MAD description, "The problem occurs because the large solenoid on the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to "START." And that large amount of current must flow through a very lengthy circuit, from the battery to the dash area. Through dash wiring and switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, finally to the starter."

OK, the activation of either the GM solenoid or Ford solenoid is still being activated by the Purple "Start" wire, all I did was move it from the GM solenoid "S" lug to the Ford solenoid "I" "Start" lug. HOW DID I CHANGE/ELIMINATE the current flow through a very lengthy circuit from Ford solenoid lug to the dash area, through dash wiring and switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, and finally to the Ford solenoid "I" lug??????

Enclosed is a drawing that is my example for the above. I still have to connect the 12V power wire that was attached to the GM solenoid that brings power to my circuitry/fuse box. So the current flow HAS NOT changed going through the lengthy wiring circuit because it still has to in order for it to energize my ignition switch that sends power out along the Purple "Start" wire to activate the Ford solenoid through the "I" lug. So all I am doing is swapping my 12V power wire that supplies 12V to all my switches/gauges/accessories to the 12V battery lug on the Ford solenoid having the battery cable going from the battery post to the Ford solenoid lug - I will still have constant 12V going into my wiring circuitry, just not to the starter. AND, depending where I mount the Ford solenoid, I may have to extend/splice the 12V power wire/Purple "S" wire to reach the Ford solenoid.


MAD also sayd, " *(2)* *SLOW CRANKING, a gr-r-runt, gr-r-runt. This kit (Ford solenoid) won't fix it!* You'll need to work with ignition timing, battery cables, the starter, and the rest of the system."

Another website compares the GM set-up with the Ford change over and states, "This set-up DOES NOT make the GM solenoid any cooler. It just gives it a better current supply."

Heat shields for the starter/solenoid, heat wrap, and heat blankets can help keep heat away.

Using a heavy gauge battery cable can improve the voltage supply to the starter.

From a other post, "One area that people forget is the "ground" path. If you are supplying 150A from the battery to the starter motor, then 150A has to go back from the starter motor to the battery. There are two current paths to deal with, not one. Remember that strap from the cylinder head to the firewall that you didn't bother to put back on because it was a pain? Put it on. Run the same sized cable from the starter to the chassis as you do from the battery to the solenoid, then make sure that the negative side connection from the battery to the chassis is excellent, nothing less."

From another forum with regards to needed amps to spin a 2HP GM starter, and I am going to guess this is with no load on it, ie spinning freely, "At 746 watts/hp, a 100% efficient 2 hp starter would draw about 125 amps at 12v. If the starter is only 75% efficient, it would take 166 amps to get the same 2 hp. If the applied voltage drops to 10 volts because of the load of our 75% efficient starter, it will now take 199 amps to make 2 hp."

A good *starter* will normally *draw* 60 to 150 *amps* with no load on it, and up to 250 *amps* under load (while cranking the engine). Amp needs can go even higher depending on your compression, timing, oil weight and outside temperature. And if brushes, armature, bushings are worn out in the starter itself, efficiency drops and more amps may be required

So *my personal opinion* is that I really don't see many advantages to use the Ford solenoid and I would not use one on my car. It may be more of a band-aid than a fix when the heat-soak problem may be cured with correct/larger gauge cables, heat shielding, good battery, or mini-starter with clockable solenoid. I can see an advantage to connecting a 1-wire alternator wire to the solenoid lug being a cleaner installation than most who hook it to the battery post. The positive cable lug on the Ford solenoid would be a good place to hook up any accessory wires such as electric fans, relays, or electrical add-ons. Eliminating constant power to the starter? To what gain?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Old Man Taylor said:


> The battery and solenoid are in the trunk of my racecar. I used 000 welding cable for the battery wires and the multiple ground wires.


I know with a race car you have to have a power shut off switch. Why use the Ford solenoid in the trunk as opposed to running the 000 wire closer to the starter and then the Ford solenoid? I ask because I plan on mounting a rear battery in my '68 and run the 000 wire directly to the Robbmc mini starter solenoid - minus the Ford solenoid. And, this is not a race car.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

If I did it the way you described I would have a very long hot wire from the battery in the rear to the Ford solenoid up front. In the event the car crashed that would be more dangerous than having the very short hot wire with the solenoid in the rear. My Ford solenoid is mounted onto the battery box, so the hot wire is as short as possible. I had to implement for both safety and for NHRA.

Although I do have a one wire alternator, I don't have any power feeds tied into it. One down side of making it NHRA legal is that I can't tie the alternator wire directly to my switch controls. The reason is that when the master switch at the back of the car is turned off, the engine has to stop running. If the one wire on the alternator goes directly to power (even the switched OFF side) then it will self energize enough to keep the engine running. That's why they test you in tech by turning off the switch in the back with the engine running. If it doesn't shut off you are DQ'd. So I have a #8 wire going from the alternator to the non-battery side of the switch in the rear, then the same size wire going back up to the switch box and controls up front. But that wire comes off of the switched side of the "OFF" switch. What I didn't like about this was the voltage loss to my controls. The easy way would have been to run the alternator wire directly to the controls up front, which would have given me maximum voltage. But then the rear switch would not shut off the engine.

I also understand that the current going through the positive cable also has a return path to ground. My professional training is in electronic engineering, albeit it in computers. I have a 000 ground wire from the negative terminal of the battery to the frame in the rear of the car, and a 000 wire on each side of the engine to the frame. Technically this can cause ground current loops, but at the current we are talking about that is not a problem.

It's late, so I hope I didn't screw up any of my explanation.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

B/T/W, this is only on my racecar. My streetcar has the standard configuration. The only thing unique in that area is the mini-starter I use.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Old Man Taylor said:


> If I did it the way you described I would have a very long hot wire from the battery in the rear to the Ford solenoid up front. In the event the car crashed that would be more dangerous than having the very short hot wire with the solenoid in the rear. My Ford solenoid is mounted onto the battery box, so the hot wire is as short as possible. I had to implement for both safety and for NHRA.
> 
> Although I do have a one wire alternator, I don't have any power feeds tied into it. One down side of making it NHRA legal is that I can't tie the alternator wire directly to my switch controls. The reason is that when the master switch at the back of the car is turned off, the engine has to stop running. If the one wire on the alternator goes directly to power (even the switched OFF side) then it will self energize enough to keep the engine running. That's why they test you in tech by turning off the switch in the back with the engine running. If it doesn't shut off you are DQ'd. So I have a #8 wire going from the alternator to the non-battery side of the switch in the rear, then the same size wire going back up to the switch box and controls up front. But that wire comes off of the switched side of the "OFF" switch. What I didn't like about this was the voltage loss to my controls. The easy way would have been to run the alternator wire directly to the controls up front, which would have given me maximum voltage. But then the rear switch would not shut off the engine.
> 
> ...



No screw-ups! LOL I know a race car has to meet NHRA or IHRA tech per their guide book. Just was curious as to your set-up. I have heard of some guys state they run a second parallel positive cable up to the starter to provide better current flow from the trunk mounted battery. Not sure if there is an advantage to this or it was just because the owner used the lighter/smaller gauge wire versus just one single 000 gauge wire. Might have been an availability thing for him or cost.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Mine is a dedicated single wire to the starter, and my 000 is overkill. But a lot of times I like overkill. Mine is welding cable, so it is pretty flexible - considering. I don't see a good functional reason to put the battery in the trunk for a streetcar, unless it is for traction for racing or the desire to clean up the appearance under the hood. 

If I did do it on my GTO I would still put the Ford solenoid in the rear by the battery. There's no downside to it. 

I did forget about one other ground wire I have. I put two "power posts" about where the heater core would have been. This gave me a good attachment location for all power and ground requirements up front. The ground stud also has a 000 wire to the frame. Overall I've got about 20 pounds of 000 wire. I was bracket racing, so I didn't care if I had a little more weight.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Yes, putting the battery in the trunk to clean-up under the fiberglass flip nose and elimination of the factory radiator support. Suppose I could place it under the floor like the 1940's.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I think it would be perfect for you to put it in the trunk. Let me know if you want to see pictures of mine.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Old Man Taylor said:


> I think it would be perfect for you to put it in the trunk. Let me know if you want to see pictures of mine.


Sure, post up a couple pics. I'd like to see them and it may help someone else down the line.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

These are a little disorganized, but just ask if there are any questions. I have no secrets. The first ones are a quick overview of the car. It's been sitting for some time, so it is quite dirty.

Note that I don't have any torsion bars on my trunk. I hold it up with a rod. You can see where I put the ON-OFF switch so anyone can access it to shut it down.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

OK, I finally finished dinner. These will show the battery box and some of the wiring. Note the battery is secured to the trunk floor. Actually there's welded tabs underneath so the battery hold down bolts tie directly into the frame. You can best see how the battery is secured in the picture that shows the Ford solenoid. Note that I got it and some other stuff from MAD Enterprises, but I don't know if he is still in business. There is a shallow metal tray with tabs that are held in by connecting to the through bolts. There is a plastic container that the battery fits into, and the whole assembly drops into the metal frame below. On top of that is an inverted U shaped frame that holds the battery in. On the top of that frame are two adjustable bolts that connect to the sides of the battery to hold it in place. On top of that is what looks like a seat belt. There are metal tabs on the end of it to tie into the through bolts. This belt holds the top of the battery case on. 

On the Ford solenoid - there are two small wires. One for ground and the other for the start switch from the overhead switch panel. The one big wire goes directly to the starter. The other side of the relay is the 12 volts from the battery, and other 12 volt supply wires. 

OOPS - it rotated the picture of the back of the switch. Reverse right and left in my description. Looking down the trunk you see the main On-Off switch. The left side is the switched side. The right side is the hot side. The red wire comes directly from the alternator. The other black wire on the hot side goes to the instrument panel. On the passenger side you will see two studs protruding. The left one is ground, with a 000 cable going to the frame. The right one is for 12 volts that I connected under the dash. This gave me access to voltage up front, and it's where I connect the timing light power cables. One caution here. The alternator wire is always hot. It is easy to forget that when the switch is off. 

The ugly red and black cables are for the battery charger that I keep in the trunk. I should have taken it out before I took the pictures.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

More miscellaneous. Some so you can see the battery grounding better, and the long wire going to the driver's side of the trunk is the starter wire. They reversed that picture as well.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I couldn't find a good picture of the current engine configuration, but this video is close.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

OK, good pics. Great video clip. Assume an aftermarket block with that many cubes?


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Yes, it's an IAII block with a 4.350" bore and a 4.25" stroke. It has Edelbrock heads that flow 360 CFM (lots of work), an 1150 CFM C&S carb and a very large solid roller cam - 284/288 at 0.050" with 0.700" lift.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I'll toss in a couple of videos of the racecar. This one did not have the intended result, but it does show a complete run from pulling out of the staging lanes to getting back to my pit. This was at the Barona eighth mile track. It is on the Indian reservation in San Diego County. Every now and then the left lane goes squirrelly, and just one time. This was one of those runs. It started dancing around at the end of first, and it went totally out of shape when I shifted to second. It was much worse than it appears in the video. The ugly guy sticking his head in at the end is Robert Johnson. He is/was the driver for Jim Wangers' Ponte-Carlo. The white trailer on my left was D-Mac's (Dennis MacDonald).


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

This is just a short clip of the car running with mufflers on it. I was going to Irwindale Raceway, which requires mufflers. It still ran 6.34 at 109 (1/8th mile). I'll hunt around to see if I have a good video of a complete run outside of the car.


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## Montreux (Mar 8, 2009)

Gconsult said:


> 1971 GTO 400 Positive Battery Cable having a hard time finding SIDE MOUNTED one. Most options say they only work for 455 motor. Anyone know a vendor and/or how many inches is the cable so I can have one made. Or a picture of one??


gconsult—hope you’re rolling down the road by now!
1) All Pontiac V8’s have the starter in the same place! If it works for a 455, it’ll work on a 400–never mind what the parts store computer says!
2) Bigger is better. Molded terminals are better than clamp-on terminals. 
3) Cars with HO/RA manifolds or headers can/should route the cable along the frame rail. Factory used a bracket that mounts to the motor mount (at least in 67). 
4) MAD Electric Start-em-up kit (Ford solenoid) does two things:
A) The big wire to the starter in not “ hot” except while cranking. With factory setup, this cable is always “hot”, and if it gets pinched or burned it becomes an un-fused dead short to ground—definite fire hazard! 
B) GM starters can have hot start problems, when the starter-mounted solenoid doesn’t work. This is partly because the solenoid requires more “juice” when hot, and partly due to voltage drop through the fuse block and ignition switch (the S terminal doesn’t get a full 12v). The Ford solenoid powers up the battery cable to the starter, which is jumpered to the S terminal on the starter, so the GM solenoid gets full voltage. If your solenoid is working (starter is cranking), then you don’t need this fix.


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