# Rearend



## Marty (Oct 7, 2004)

I read on another site about rearend whine and bolts falling out of it. Has anyone here had any problems??


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## Hideaway (Oct 28, 2004)

My GTO has that rearend whine problem. My dealer is in the process of replacing my differential. The problem first became noticeable at about 1600 miles, and got proggressively worse during the course of a 1000 miles.


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## Hideaway (Oct 28, 2004)

Hideaway said:


> My GTO has that rearend whine problem. My dealer is in the process of replacing my differential. The problem first became noticeable at about 1600 miles, and got proggressively worse during the course of a 1000 miles.



I just got my GTO back today, and it now handles like a completely different car. Because it is now handling like a GTO. I only have one thing to say, "awesome car!" :cool 

The bad differential was sent back to GM, so it could be inspected by the engineers.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Hideaway said:


> My GTO has that rearend whine problem. My dealer is in the process of replacing my differential. The problem first became noticeable at about 1600 miles, and got proggressively worse during the course of a 1000 miles.


I'll make this thread more active/current . I'm hearing the whine from 45-60 when pressing accelerator and no whine when coming off gas. Will visit Dealership with complaint and see what I can add...


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

Mine was doing the same thing and for grins I put some high quality fluid in it and the noise went away...... however, 04gtolover (one of our techs), didn't have the same luck and we replaced his diff.....


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

The Service Manager heard the sound and Ordered a Complete Rear Axle Assembly . He said that Pontiac/Dana are still trying to determine the origin of these noisy pinions. The idea was to get a complete rear axle assembly to be sure the problem is fixed. Bad news is new Rear Axle Assembly needed @ 2000 miles , Good news is the dealership didn't play games and knew of this problem hitting some percentage of GTO's , also under warranty (think it's 3-4 large). They say +- 2 weeks for parts and then I'll go back in . The noise is a whining noise at 45-50 mph when giving gas , noise quits when come off gas. No Whining Noise at other speeds. 

To Be continued...


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> The Service Manager heard the sound and Ordered a Complete Rear Axle Assembly . He said that Pontiac/Dana are still trying to determine the origin of these noisy pinions. The idea was to get a complete rear axle assembly to be sure the problem is fixed. Bad news is new Rear Axle Assembly needed @ 2000 miles , Good news is the dealership didn't play games and knew of this problem hitting some percentage of GTO's , also under warranty (think it's 3-4 large). They say +- 2 weeks for parts and then I'll take it back in . The noise is a whining noise at 45-50 mph when giving gas , noise quits when come off gas. No Whining Noise at other speeds.
> 
> To Be continued...


Uh-oh. Mine does that. Is it like a whirring noise from the back that you can hear if the radio is down but not if you had it up? Also, I am getting this loud clunking noise from back there when shifting. It clunks the loudest when I am going into 6th gear at like 45-50. If I put the clutch in, nothing, but when I let it out *Clunk*. It will do it over and over again every time I let the clutch out. Its loud too, I heard it over the radio, louder than the whirring noise.


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## 05_HUMBLER (Jul 18, 2005)

GREAT!!! Now on the way home I'M going to start hearing things


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Guess I'm driving into work tommorrow with the radio off. Wait I need to go to the store!!!!!!!


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Please one noise at a time ... I have read of a "thunk in the truck" TSB . Something about inspecting the floor pan and diff case for contact and/or movement. The fix as I remember was replacing Differential mounting bushings.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

My GTO thunks and clunks...but whats worrying me is the whirring sound I hear @ 40-55mph from the rear. Not screaming, but its there. My car only has 550 miles on it. Great. Needless to say I'll be calling the dealership up this week. Not cool. :willy:


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## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

On my recent vacation, I noticed a deep sounding whine coming from the rear of my goat but it really doesn't become noticable until about 75 or 80 mph and not at the 45 to 50 mph point as most are reporting. At this point I am leaning toward tire noise on different pavement surface textures. Positive throttle position it is worse, decel position it seems to diminish a good bit.

Gonna keep monitoring this to see if it gets worse and continue hoping it really is only tire noise.


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## ScottR (Apr 1, 2005)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> My GTO thunks and clunks...but whats worrying me is the whirring sound I hear @ 40-55mph from the rear. Not screaming, but its there. My car only has 550 miles on it. Great. Needless to say I'll be calling the dealership up this week. Not cool. :willy:


Took mine in over 2 weeks ago for 45 - 55MPH whine. They've order a whole new rear and hope to have one in within another week or 2. It takes quite awhile. They are well aware of this problem and will just replace it. 

But thats okay, because while it was in, the gas pedal sensor went and now my GTO has been stuck at the dealership for 18 days now! I'm really starting to hate this car - but then again, its been so long since I've driven it that I forget what it was like!


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

I have always bought my cars new , and there are always problems to be fixed under warranty. True a New Rearend as the fix (which I am also waiting on) is a big problem , my concern is what caused the problem (Dana was to research the issue from failed parts - but no news/info that I'm prive to has been reported). And aren't Dana's some of the best rearends available...

If this pinion problem (as I know the problem to be) can be solved then future GTO's will not have any concern. IF this pinion issue and the gas pedal sensor problem (drive by wire issue) are correctable then some of us will have had to step on gernades for the betterment of other owners. That is also why this forum is so popular with owners and non-owners alike.

As far as I recall when the Rearend is replaced and/or the gas pedal is replaced the problem is solved and doesn't occur again. If that is not the case then GM has a more serious problem. One of the deep frustrations is that the parts for our GTO's are slow to arrive and usually backordered. I even read that there is backorder on some colors of touch-up paints ??

Contrary to the majority of Rabbits on this forum some of us are turtles and just want the problems fixed so we can drive our stock Goats for many years...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I get a very slight whine at 40-50 mph. It's more noticable when I have the a/c on. Is this a problem for concern?


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

The whine I am waiting for a new rearend for is : Comes from behind rear passenger seats at 45to55+- with gas applied , come off gas the whine goes away , press gas again and the whine is there. Sounds like a failing fuel pump from other vehicles experience... The whine is not present at other speeds in the on/off gas test. But others say the whine eventually is audible at speeds other than this 45-55 range... 
My Service manager drove it - heard it and ordered the parts , no discussion...
This time of year I always have the A/C on in FL...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> The whine I am waiting for a new rearend for is : Comes from behind rear passenger seats at 45to55+- with gas applied , come off gas the whine goes away , press gas again and the whine is there. Sounds like a failing fuel pump from other vehicles experience... The whine is not present at other speeds in the on/off gas test. But others say the whine eventually is audible at speeds other than this 45-55 range...
> My Service manager drove it - heard it and ordered the parts , no discussion...
> This time of year I always have the A/C on in FL...


Same thing I noticed..... Let off the gas and it goes away. Apply gas and it whines.... But is this a cause for concern?


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Cottonfarmer said:


> I am leaning toward tire noise on different pavement surface textures.


I've noticed that certain types of tire noise really transfer through the chassis and into the car. For the most part, the GTO is amazingly quiet -- but under certain conditions you'll get a noticeable harmonic buzz. Better than a noticeable harmonica buzz -- but it's still there.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> Same thing I noticed..... Let off the gas and it goes away. Apply gas and it whines.... But is this a cause for concern?


Concern ?? , Can you live with this whine for the life of your GTO ? I don't consider this normal so I complain to dealer and they order parts . They must also think it can be corrected. GTODEALER says he removed whine by replacing
rearend fluid with syn. fluid , which I might haved tryed if it were out of warranty - I took it to the dealer. I continue to drive my GTO while waiting for parts to arrive...


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm at 7000 miles and no problems yet. I definately have not been easy on her. I hope my luck continues, and hope you guys with problems get yours fixed quickly and the fix is right.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> Concern ?? , Can you live with this whine for the life of your GTO ? I don't consider this normal so I complain to dealer and they order parts . They must also think it can be corrected. GTODEALER says he removed whine by replacing
> rearend fluid with syn. fluid , which I might haved tryed if it were out of warranty - I took it to the dealer. I continue to drive my GTO while waiting for parts to arrive...


The noise is not constant. On some roadways I get no noise. I do not notice the noise however when the A/C is not on. The whine is not deep nor is it a high pitched noise... I have heard the same sound on other cars I have owned in the past. I am going to give this one though a thorough evaluation.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Some of us have this whine from the rearend others have the clunk in the trunk , your a/c noise is a new one for me. Atleast these noises/whines don't put us into reduced power mode like the bad pedal sensor does...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> Some of us have this whine from the rearend others have the clunk in the trunk , your a/c noise is a new one for me. Atleast these noises/whines don't put us into reduced power mode like the bad pedal sensor does...


I took her out for a run to concentrate on the whinnying. It will whine as soon as I hit 50 mph. The whine does come from the rear. With the windows down I cannot hear it, it's that faint. Of course there is air flow noise, but the sound is not noticeable. When I put the window up I can hear it. It comes and goes with the depressing of the gas pedal. It does it on concrete roadways, as well as asphalt. It does it with or without the air on. It is a slight whinnying. Not a deep, or even high pitched whine. It does it at 50 mph but when I get to like 55 or higher I can barely detect it. I am going to suggest to my service rep to change out the rear gear oil and replace with synthetic before I have them tear out the rear. It's just not that loud that I am concerned about it. But if it is an issue in the future I ought to get it done. That's why I ask if this is an issue that I should be concerned about, and if it will harm anything if left alone.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> I am going to suggest to my service rep to change out the rear gear oil and replace with synthetic before I have them tear out the rear. It's just not that loud that I am concerned about it. But if it is an issue in the future I ought to get it done. That's why I ask if this is an issue that I should be concerned about, and if it will harm anything if left alone.


That's the whine I took in to complain about... Tough call on the future of this
problem if left alone , don't think anyone has lots of miles yet - maybe Goucho.
Hopefully the diff. fluid change will solve your noise. But if Dana is concerned and Pontiac is willing to eat the cost of a New Rearend - something is going on .
Maybe it's build date relative to a batch of parts ? As drastic as a NEW rearend is , the Dealer made the call and I'll take all fixes necessary during the warranty
period. My idea is to find and fix all problems during the warranty period and after that the decision process will change somewhat as I extreme commute...

Maybe your dealer will change the fluid and put you on the list to cover the delay factor in case it get's worse. Let us know how your dealer responds to the service call...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> That's the whine I took in to complain about... Tough call on the future of this
> problem if left alone , don't think anyone has lots of miles yet - maybe Goucho.
> Hopefully the diff. fluid change will solve your noise. But if Dana is concerned and Pontiac is willing to eat the cost of a New Rearend - something is going on .
> Maybe it's build date relative to a batch of parts ? As drastic as a NEW rearend is , the Dealer made the call and I'll take all fixes necessary during the warranty
> ...


I have her going into the shop tomorrow. They are attempting to eliminate a high pitched noise coming from the A/C which comes and goes. They are replacing the blower motor in the dash hoping this will correct the problem. I'm gonna have them check out the differential as well, I'll keep ya posted.


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## LS2FAST (Jul 22, 2005)

Dang I feel very fortunate... No such noise from my car, solid as can be. 

arty:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> That's the whine I took in to complain about... Tough call on the future of this
> problem if left alone , don't think anyone has lots of miles yet - maybe Goucho.
> Hopefully the diff. fluid change will solve your noise. But if Dana is concerned and Pontiac is willing to eat the cost of a New Rearend - something is going on .
> Maybe it's build date relative to a batch of parts ? As drastic as a NEW rearend is , the Dealer made the call and I'll take all fixes necessary during the warranty
> ...



Ya know,....... I love this forum. With the info shared by everyone, we have a chance to head off potential problems before they become nightmares.

I talked to my service guys today. The didn't know about the whinnying in the carrier (differential). They did some research and found a service bulletin on that item. The Bulletin calls for the dealer to remove the synthetic oil that is in the carrier, and replace it with a different synthetic oil. I am assuming it's a different weight. If this doesn't correct the problem, then surgery is warranted. I really don't want them tearing my carrier out and putting a new one in but if it has to be, it has to be. Hopefully just the oil will do the trick. I will inform if the problem has been corrected by a changing of the oil.... Everyone that reads this...You may want to discuss this with your service reps, and let them determine if a change of oil is necessary. Even if you have no whinnying, it could occur in the future. I have seen first hand how carriers are put together when Dana Corp assembled carriers for Mack Trucks, and if they are not perfect, problems will arise.

I worked for Dana Corp. (not the same plant that produced the drive train for the GTO) I don't know all the details as to why they are having parts problems at this point (which is more than likely the problem with our carriers), but they downsized the company drastically in the past few years in an effort to save the company. They were nearly taken over in a hostile take over attempt by Arvin Meritor. At any rate... An awful lot of good people lost their jobs, when over 40 plants were closed, and since then Dana has been having off and on problems with different components. 

Attention: The cause of the noise coming from my air vents when the A/C was turned on, was coming from the A/C compressor. It was found the oil level was low, and the refrigerant was 1-1/2 lbs low. After adding oil to the compressor and topping off the A/C with refrigerant the noise left. You guys may want to keep an eye on that. I read sometime ago in here some guys were complaining of their A/C's not cooling as good as expected. This may be a reason for it.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

I too was at the service dept today. (BTW..if anyone is looking for a GTO in my area..Nucar Pontiac has 6 of 'em. Most auto's.)

Anyway, as soon as I started to explain the whine, the serivce manager closed his eyes and started shaking his head as to say "I know exactly what you're talking about." I'm supposed to go in next monday to take a tech for a ride. When I asked about the resolution; he said "we have been replacing the rears." However, Judge, I'll bring up the fluid change-out with him as well.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> I too was at the service dept today. (BTW..if anyone is looking for a GTO in my area..Nucar Pontiac has 6 of 'em. Most auto's.)
> 
> Anyway, as soon as I started to explain the whine, the serivce manager closed his eyes and started shaking his head as to say "I know exactly what you're talking about." I'm supposed to go in next monday to take a tech for a ride. When I asked about the resolution; he said "we have been replacing the rears." However, Judge, I'll bring up the fluid change-out with him as well.


I hope that a heavier weight oil corrects it. I was told that the bulletin said to change out the fluid first, and if that didn't correct it, then a transplant was in order. Down here in Lancaster, they only sold a few in the past 2 years, so customers coming in with concerns isn't happening. If I weren't learning so much on here, I probably wouldn't of given it much thought. 

This is another warranty claim that isn't helping Dana's reputation, of trying to regain the postion of a global leader in quality, and customer satisifaction. I guess another change of CEO's is in order.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Interesting thread. I have a nasty clunk (I mean DAMN loud) in from the rear when decel/accel, worst when in 6th at lower speeds. I also have a whining in the rear that is very noticable when the windows are up and I am between 45~55 and just holding speed (no accel or decel). Took it in and they kept it for 3 days. 6000 mile "Brake Service" (greased the f'ing calipers) $35, and 2 new rear tires (hee-hee). Both front seat power mechanics need replaced (on order). The service report regarding the clunk stated and I quote "Customer needs to downshift" LOL! The report for the whine is, quote again "Standard RWD differential noise" LOL. OK, so thats 3 days for....
1.) 2 tires mounted and balanced
2.) 6000 mile brake service (brake greasing :lol: )

I still have to take it in when both seat mechanisms arrive, hope it doesnt take a week to do some actual work.

So everyone rest assured, if you have a noise coming from underneath in the back that sounds like someone takes one hell of a whack with an aluminum baseball bat to the rear end when you suddenly accelerate from a decel in 6th gear you are simply not in the correct gear and you must simply downshift AND the whine in the rear end is standard when you have a RWD car so all is well. AND I am an idiot for even suspecting that there was a problem there. The last 3 RWD cars I had didnt make a peep from the rear so they must have been broken. The last time I heard a "Clunk" sound like that from a RWD car was in my old Marquis when I put it into gear not too long before the rear U-joint took the day off and my drive shaft hit the ground. 

-Yours truly The Moron.


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## Purple People Eater (Aug 3, 2005)

I too had to have the rear end replaced in my goat and while GM was great and didn;t charge me anything for it I still have to say that with all the heavy testing they do on new cars I just don't get how they didn't realize the problems with the rear end. Also for all you guys going through this, if your dealer is a cool guy you can pick up a new set of gears for no extra money like say a set of 3:73 and you will not belive the difference in takeoff and acceleration. :cheers


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Purple People Eater said:


> I too had to have the rear end replaced in my goat and while GM was great and didn;t charge me anything for it I still have to say that with all the heavy testing they do on new cars I just don't get how they didn't realize the problems with the rear end. Also for all you guys going through this, if your dealer is a cool guy you can pick up a new set of gears for no extra money like say a set of 3:73 and you will not belive the difference in takeoff and acceleration. :cheers


How long were you down while they replaced the rearend ? Be sure to vote your color combo in the Poll section  

What are the factory gears for the M6 and/or A4 ?? Going to a higher gear in the A4 for better mileage did cross my mind...


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## LS2FAST (Jul 22, 2005)

Purple People Eater said:


> I too had to have the rear end replaced in my goat and while GM was great and didn;t charge me anything for it I still have to say that with all the heavy testing they do on new cars I just don't get how they didn't realize the problems with the rear end. Also for all you guys going through this, if your dealer is a cool guy you can pick up a new set of gears for no extra money like say a set of 3:73 and you will not belive the difference in takeoff and acceleration. :cheers



Hmmm, wait a sec. I DO HAVE a noise in my differential, yeah thats the ticket. :lol:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> Interesting thread. I have a nasty clunk (I mean DAMN loud) in from the rear when decel/accel, worst when in 6th at lower speeds. I also have a whining in the rear that is very noticable when the windows are up and I am between 45~55 and just holding speed (no accel or decel). Took it in and they kept it for 3 days. 6000 mile "Brake Service" (greased the f'ing calipers) $35, and 2 new rear tires (hee-hee). Both front seat power mechanics need replaced (on order). The service report regarding the clunk stated and I quote "Customer needs to downshift" LOL! The report for the whine is, quote again "Standard RWD differential noise" LOL. OK, so thats 3 days for....
> 1.) 2 tires mounted and balanced
> 2.) 6000 mile brake service (brake greasing :lol: )
> 
> ...


Man JM what kind of fools are working at your dealership??? You must downshift???? I'd go elsewhere. The whinnying you are hearing is coming from the carrier. Something in the gearing is not meshing. This is not standard differential noise..... There should be no noise coming from the carrier. There is a service bulletin out regarding the whinnying. 

Here is a brief synopses on what happens in the carrier (differential)..The carrier sits on top of the axle. The axle shafts enter the axle ends and the splines on the end of the axle shaft mesh in with the gears that are inside the carrier. As the prop shaft is rotating all the gears in the carrier must turn in unison. If for some reason a tooth on one of the gears is worn, nicked, or damaged, and this goes for the splines on the end of the axle shaft as well... the shaft may jump and cause a loud bang when acceleration is given. The whinnying could be that something is too tight in the housing. 

A heavier weight gear oil may silence the sound, but what worries me is, is there may be damage being done that cannot be heard. 

In order to remove a carrier, the axle must be pulled, and the axle shafts removed from the bell housing area. All the bolts have to be removed from the carrier / axle, and the silastic seal removed. The face must be re-cleaned and a new silastic bead of caulk applied. The new carrier set back down carefully without disturbing the silastic caulk, for if it isn't, a future leak will happen, guaranteed. Installing a carrier is an art in itself. Once the carrier is secured and properly torqued, the axle shafts must be re-installed. After that, the housing is refilled with oil. Then the cover plate put back on. Then it must be put back on and reconnected to the U joints. The axle must be properly positioned. 

Changing out the entire rear (carrier, attached to the axles) is the best case scenario, because all the fine tuning in the carrier should be done at factory, and all that is required is a complete change out of the rear itself. That is the only way I would want my rear changed out, the whole thing, not just the carrier. 

If the service dept just wants to change out the carrier, I'd be hesitant on that. I'd insist on a complete rear change out. My service rep tells me it should take one day to change out the compete rear with a seasoned mechanic. 

While I was an employee of Dana Corp. There was a LOT of warranty work coming in the facility I was at. They had many problems corporate wide with warranty work. But that is another topic for discussion.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I am so used to that song and dance BS from car dealers I didnt even flinch when I read it. Someone on here mentioned imports for service quality, heh, I have owned 3 KIA's (Sephia, Spectra, Sedona). They have all been in the shop, and there service is exactly the same. Once my Spectra's air quit working. They kept it for 2 days. Called "your car is ready". Went and picked it up, service ticket said some BS about a switch. Got the key, went to the car, started it, turned air on. Guess what? Yeah, nothing, zip, zilch, zero, nada and nada III. Walked the key right back in. Wife's Sedona, 1500 miles the steering wheel starts shaking like a biotch when you put the brakes on. Now any moron can figure out the rotors are warped, but at 1500 miles? In a van? I mean, she isnt racing this thing on saturday nights. Took it in figuring it was a no brainer that it was under warranty. Yeah, they call me later that day "Sir, your brakes are shot, the car needs a brake job in the front" I asked him why he was calling me about it. He tells me that he needs authorization to perform the work and inform me of the cost of a full front brake job. LOL! I laughed at him and asked for the mgr. Guess what. Same BS, they dont cover brakes under warranty. Its a wear item. Uh-huh at 1500 miles? Needless to say, I wrote an email to KIA. No response. Did the GD beakes in the driveway with a new set of NAPA rotors and pads. I could go on, but you get the point. They are all the same. The customer service in this country is non existant. You think your grandparents would have put up with that crap? NOT! Anyway, something is wrong under there and I am the perfect guy to make it break all the way. When its towed into the dealer with the bottom half of the pumpkin blown off they will have no choice but to put in a new one.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> I am so used to that song and dance BS from car dealers I didnt even flinch when I read it. Someone on here mentioned imports for service quality, heh, I have owned 3 KIA's (Sephia, Spectra, Sedona). They have all been in the shop, and there service is exactly the same. Once my Spectra's air quit working. They kept it for 2 days. Called "your car is ready". Went and picked it up, service ticket said some BS about a switch. Got the key, went to the car, started it, turned air on. Guess what? Yeah, nothing, zip, zilch, zero, nada and nada III. Walked the key right back in. Wife's Sedona, 1500 miles the steering wheel starts shaking like a biotch when you put the brakes on. Now any moron can figure out the rotors are warped, but at 1500 miles? In a van? I mean, she isnt racing this thing on saturday nights. Took it in figuring it was a no brainer that it was under warranty. Yeah, they call me later that day "Sir, your brakes are shot, the car needs a brake job in the front" I asked him why he was calling me about it. He tells me that he needs authorization to perform the work and inform me of the cost of a full front brake job. LOL! I laughed at him and asked for the mgr. Guess what. Same BS, they dont cover brakes under warranty. Its a wear item. Uh-huh at 1500 miles? Needless to say, I wrote an email to KIA. No response. Did the GD beakes in the driveway with a new set of NAPA rotors and pads. I could go on, but you get the point. They are all the same. The customer service in this country is non existant. You think your grandparents would have put up with that crap? NOT! Anyway, something is wrong under there and I am the perfect guy to make it break all the way. When its towed into the dealer with the bottom half of the pumpkin blown off they will have no choice but to put in a new one.


JM: I picked up my GTO today, was told the gear oil will take a week to get here, no problem I told them, I'll wait while you's change it out. My service rep showed me the bulletin, from GM that Dana Corp. put out. From what I read, it stated they made 20 "bad rears." Once complaints started coming in the changed the type of rear they were using and began another type rear.... I questioned that>> ONLY 20????? That I don't believe. There is a lot more than 20. That BS your dealer is giving you is sad. Ask them to show you the service bulletin. It exists I READ IT AT my dealer. If they insist there is none let me know, I will ask my service guy to fax it to me and I will display it here if I can. Sorry to hear about your problems.


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## Goat Herder (Jul 5, 2005)

My car is making that noise but usually when I am in second and going into third or the 1-4 skipshift. 

Another problem that I am having is that I was told by my mechanic that my rack and pinion unit is leaking fluid! My car only had 600 miles then. Now it has 1600 miles. I called up the dealership and the service manager basically said that I don't have to bring it back to his dealership for that, any Pontiac dealership can address it. He also said that rack and pinion can go at any time whether the car is new or ten years old, he is not surprised. 

I noticed yesterday that there was oil on the ground when I took my car out of the garage. Does anyone else notice any leaks on the ground when they move their car out of a space? I am going crazy over this and have gotten pissed off about the whole situation.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Goat Herder said:


> My car is making that noise but usually when I am in second and going into third or the 1-4 skipshift.
> 
> Another problem that I am having is that I was told by my mechanic that my rack and pinion unit is leaking fluid! My car only had 600 miles then. Now it has 1600 miles. I called up the dealership and the service manager basically said that I don't have to bring it back to his dealership for that, any Pontiac dealership can address it. He also said that rack and pinion can go at any time whether the car is new or ten years old, he is not surprised.
> 
> I noticed yesterday that there was oil on the ground when I took my car out of the garage. Does anyone else notice any leaks on the ground when they move their car out of a space? I am going crazy over this and have gotten pissed off about the whole situation.


I have never heard of the R&P going at anytime on a new vehicle. I think that's B. S. I have not noticed any oil at all on the ground under my GTO. If you are noticing oil, there is a bad seal somewhere. If a seal gets nicked when it's installed, it will leak. If a seal is installed and the part that it is affixed to is not torqued properly, it can leak from the bolts being too loose OR the seal got twisted slightly when the cover plate was installed. 

More than likely, wherever the oil is leaking from, there is a bad seal. Seals can be either silastic from a caulk gun, neoprene, or a rawhide substance. Where I work all 3 kinds I described are used in different applications. Whether it's semi's, or cars the seals are very similar.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

Has anyone been getting a clunk from the rear when shifting form 1-2 under light/moderate acceleration? I cant pinpoint the exact shift point i get it?


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## x-stanger (Jun 24, 2005)

Oil leak @ 150 miles ,dealer had to replace the rear main seal on the engine.Two days for parts and one day for service not bad considering whats involved.Dealer was great.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*Rear End Info*

I did a little research as to where the rear end for our GTO's were built. Here is the information I got.... 

The rearend is a hybrid of the Dana M44, made by Spicer Australia. Sold as the M80 by that group.

I have no idea what the Dana M44 is, or the M80 group. 

There is a host of reasons why the rears are failing .....

Axle noise or whine can be caused by improper gear tooth machining, bad set-up (too little backlash), bearings, lack of lube, incorrect lube, etc. 

Hope this can give a little insight as to what may be happening.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> I did a little research as to where the rear end for our GTO's were built. Here is the information I got....
> 
> The rearend is a hybrid of the Dana M44, made by Spicer Australia. Sold as the M80 by that group.
> 
> ...



I decided I am not going to mess with it, I just dont care. I have a warranty to 75K, maybe when I get close to that I will persue it. I am going to drive the snot out of it and if it explodes then I will get a new one without the hastle of convincing the dealer of a problem. Besides, I got a new CD so i cant hear it anyway. :cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> I decided I am not going to mess with it, I just dont care. I have a warranty to 75K, maybe when I get close to that I will persue it. I am going to drive the snot out of it and if it explodes then I will get a new one without the hastle of convincing the dealer of a problem. Besides, I got a new CD so i cant hear it anyway. :cheers


Give her HELL..... :cheers


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

JMVorbeck said:


> I decided I am not going to mess with it, I just dont care. I have a warranty to 75K, maybe when I get close to that I will persue it. I am going to drive the snot out of it and if it explodes then I will get a new one without the hastle of convincing the dealer of a problem. Besides, I got a new CD so i cant hear it anyway. :cheers


I am with you 100%

after six weeks the seat rail fix part finally came in. an appointment means come on a certain day and wait in line - no loaners, $50 for the cheapest rental for a few hours to get to work. that doesnt fly with me. i faxed the service rep the tsb for the 200 mph speedo. if they dont have both parts in stock I will turn the car in with the problems and the parts in the parts bin.

if the seat binds, i will have the car towed to a different dealer, and hope the parts take 31 days to come in, and lemon the car. if i cant fit into the seat, i think the car is undriveable.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

Took the whining rear to the shop today. A mechanic test drove....I'm now on the list for a new rear. Whenever it gets here they're going to call me. 

I was shocked. No questions asked. Good service!


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## 04gtolover (Feb 10, 2005)

mine was whineing when you let of 40-55 replaced the diff 1500 miles later now it whines when i am giving it gas and getting up to speed let off and its gone im going to try some new fluid when i get the money and see if that stops it if not rearend #2. it took 2days of my car being in the shop befor it was fixed looked at it the first day got the rearend opvernighted and then put it in the second day. :cheers


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## 05redgto_baaah (Aug 22, 2005)

Hi guys,

My 2005 has the exact same whine at around 50mph. you only hear it with a little pressure on the gas, none while coasting. Appoinmet on Tuesday to look at it. I'll point them to the diff. Anyone else have this problem fixed? What did they do to fix it?


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## 04m6_ca (Feb 27, 2005)

*Noise from day one*

I am concerned (A BIG problem they are aware of?) and pleased (take care of the problem= good customer svcs) that most dealers are replacing the rear-end without a fuss. The fact that the noise came back for 04GTOLOVER makes me think, do I want to go thru the trouble of having a new rear-end installed and run the risk of it being worse than the first one, or the technician making a mistake while performing the work, causing other problems. Mine has made the whine noise since day one (24 miles on it). It is hardly noticed and has not changed in the one year (18k miles) that I have driven it. I am not going to do anything about it, unless the whine gets worse or somthing back there starts to leak.


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## hoyabob2003 (Jul 9, 2005)

Glad to hear you guys are getting your rears replaced no questions asked...not the case here.

My buddy and I both of 04 M6s, mine is quiet as a mouse. His, on the other hand, has the worst whine I've heard. At 62MPH it hits resonance and the whole chassis sings. 

So far it's been to the dealer (Brookdale Pontiac in Minnesota) 3 times and they claim to be unaware of there being any problem with the rear in the GTO. They admit that there's undoubtedly a noise but say GM hasn't prescribed a fix and that seems to be that. 

Anyone in Minnesota have better luck at a different dealer? Let me know. With a quiet diff, it's a different car. With a noisy diff the darn thing's quite annoying.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I have the whine in mine but the dealer said it was normal. Other GTO owners have had the whine and stated that with a diff lube change it went away. Some have had good luck with Royal Purple with friction modifier for the diff, I havnt tried it yet,


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

Keep an eye on this. The whine in my Goat is increasingly getting louder (not screaming by any means) and I'm currently on backorder for a new rear from the dealer.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I wonder what it will take before my dealer thinks its abnormal. Gear teeth in the driveway?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> Keep an eye on this. The whine in my Goat is increasingly getting louder (not screaming by any means) and I'm currently on backorder for a new rear from the dealer.


HI PA GOAT.... Last week I had the gear oil in the rear changed out with a thicker oil with additives. It didn't eliminate the noise, but reduced the noise level. There are times I can barely hear the whine, and there are times I can hear it moderately loud. I asked the service guy to check with the Dana, to see if this will cause harm if I let it go for a while longer. I am figuring on replacing the rear in the spring. I have gotten no response yet.

As I stated in an earlier post, I read the service bulletin that was put out about the whinnying, and Dana claims that "20" rears were involved with the whine problem. I think that's no way close to accurate. 
My whine starts at about 48 mph and I can no longer hear it at about 55- 60 mph. Either the whine stops, or the engine noise drowns it out. How long of a wait are you looking for a new rear?


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> HI PA GOAT.... Last week I had the gear oil in the rear changed out with a thicker oil with additives. It didn't eliminate the noise, but reduced the noise level. There are times I can barely hear the whine, and there are times I can hear it moderately loud. I asked the service guy to check with the Dana, to see if this will cause harm if I let it go for a while longer. I am figuring on replacing the rear in the spring. I have gotten no response yet.
> 
> As I stated in an earlier post, I read the service bulletin that was put out about the whinnying, and Dana claims that "20" rears were involved with the whine problem. I think that's no way close to accurate.
> My whine starts at about 48 mph and I can no longer hear it at about 55- 60 mph. Either the whine stops, or the engine noise drowns it out. How long of a wait are you looking for a new rear?


Its ironic that a company could come up with a number like that. 20. How would they know that "20" were bad? Not 22, not 10 but 20? Were they aware that they had 20 of these defective rears and decided to ship them out anyway? Its silly if you think about it.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> My whine starts at about 48 mph and I can no longer hear it at about 55- 60 mph. Either the whine stops, or the engine noise drowns it out. How long of a wait are you looking for a new rear?


Exactly the same situation. Like the car was, its on backorder then hits a slow boat out of Australia and even slower train across the States. Luckily its not my daily driver, though.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> Its ironic that a company could come up with a number like that. 20. How would they know that "20" were bad? Not 22, not 10 but 20? Were they aware that they had 20 of these defective rears and decided to ship them out anyway? Its silly if you think about it.


JM, I used to work for Dana, before them and Mack Truck got a divorce, and sold my a$$ to Mack. They reengaged on a year severance promised to me and others......and I got nothing they screwed me out of 50K.

Dana is a bunch of pathological liars. The company which used to be top notch as suffered it's fair share of inept CEO's and inept lesser subordinates.
The company was nearly taken over in a hostile take over bid by Arvin Meritor a year or so ago. Their stocks have pummeled, and the company is treading water now trying to get their act together. 

It is no surprise to me the figures they give are distorted. When I learned Dana had rears that were no good, I told people... well Dana FU#$%^ed me again. They did. I am not happy about having the rear end of my GTO taken out. I am worried that it just won't be right when a new one is installed. 

Every piece fitted back must be precisely put back correctly or other problems can occur. From the spring clips not drawn down evenly, to fittings being dinged up or bent to the absolute critical alignment that must be calibrated to the front end, to the what if this one whines too, worries me. 
The rear must be exact in measurement, and alignment from front to rear on both the left, and right sides or you will have a car traveling what looks like sideways down the road when looking at it from the rear. This worries me. 

I assume the dealerships service area is able to handle this, but I don't know what experience the tech's have at doing it. I know what is involved in replacing rears etc, and it has to be precise, with no margin for error, and all tolerances have to be met . I am afraid to trust someone with it. I am torn, do I put up with this whine, or do I risk having the rear torn out and chance it not be 100% when it's reinstalled? 

Has anyone that had their defective rears replaced with new ones had any kind of problems with them since it was installed????


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> JM, I used to work for Dana, before them and Mack Truck got a divorce, and sold my a$$ to Mack. They reengaged on a year severance promised to me and others......and I got nothing they screwed me out of 50K.
> 
> Dana is a bunch of pathological liars. The company which used to be top notch as suffered it's fair share of inept CEO's and inept lesser subordinates.
> The company was nearly taken over in a hostile take over bid by Arvin Meritor a year or so ago. Their stocks have pummeled, and the company is treading water now trying to get their act together.
> ...


One can only hope that DANA will be supplying the dealer with a fully assembed diff and the dealer has the ability to perform a full 4 wheel alignment after the installation. I am not going to persue my whine unless it changes or gets worse. I am going to try the flush n' fill with some top quality diff lube and see if that makes a change.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> One can only hope that DANA will be supplying the dealer with a fully assembed diff and the dealer has the ability to perform a full 4 wheel alignment after the installation. I am not going to persue my whine unless it changes or gets worse. I am going to try the flush n' fill with some top quality diff lube and see if that makes a change.


I was thinking the exact same thing. The main question I have is will the dealer still honor the warranty, or will we get the you messed with it that's what the problem is crap.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing. The main question I have is will the dealer still honor the warranty, or will we get the you messed with it that's what the problem is crap.


I would love to see them pull that one on me, I have the service paperwork where I complained about the noise and their idiotic response.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Back into this thread again. I'm still waiting on my rear axle assembly for my rearend whine. The Dealer told me today that it has finally reached LA and is waiting for customs to clear it. Never thought it would take this long to arrive :Service Manager ordered the New Rearend on 7/25. Anyway thought this delay factor for "no Problems we'll order a new one" rearend whine problem might be useful. If parts are always this much of a delay , and they are boated to LA where we are at the mercy of customs , my opinions of my Goat may change...
:confused


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> Back into this thread again. I'm still waiting on my rear axle assembly for my rearend whine. The Dealer told me today that it has finally reached LA and is waiting for customs to clear it. Never thought it would take this long to arrive :Service Manager ordered the New Rearend on 7/25. Anyway thought this delay factor for "no Problems we'll order a new one" rearend whine problem might be useful. If parts are always this much of a delay , and they are boated to LA where we are at the mercy of customs , my opinions of my Goat may change...
> :confused


One would think DANA would ship the rear to Australia to be installed into the vehicles, if one was needed in the states, you wouldnt think they would put it back on a boat from down under. Your rear end is going to have 18,000 miles on it by the time you get it


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Xcommuter said:


> Back into this thread again. I'm still waiting on my rear axle assembly for my rearend whine. The Dealer told me today that it has finally reached LA and is waiting for customs to clear it. Never thought it would take this long to arrive :Service Manager ordered the New Rearend on 7/25. Anyway thought this delay factor for "no Problems we'll order a new one" rearend whine problem might be useful. If parts are always this much of a delay , and they are boated to LA where we are at the mercy of customs , my opinions of my Goat may change...
> :confused


Customs wants to make sure there are no terrorists hiding in the axle itself. You know, they could pull the ole' trojan horse routine, and sneak out at night and take over LA.

Also, they want to make sure no wayward dingos copped a ride and infiltrated our dog population.

I informed my dealer to order mine awhile. Although I am thinking of having it replaced right before the warranty expires, at least they'll have it when I decide to take it in. It's weird, I hear the whine at about 48mph and it disapates at about 55mph. It still worries me about it being taken out, and the new one not being put in correctly.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

*rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*

Mine continues to get louder and louder (only @ 1,600 miles). I'm glad one is on its way because this thing just insn't right.


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## rednred04 (Dec 14, 2004)

My symptoms and fears exactly. I finally had mine done at ~2500 miles -- am now at 7000+ and new one has been fine (with no whine).



GTO judge said:


> It's weird, I hear the whine at about 48mph and it disapates at about 55mph. It still worries me about it being taken out, and the new one not being put in correctly.


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## 05redgto_baaah (Aug 22, 2005)

*Rear end whine*

I also have the rear end whine. I printed out the PIP# on this problem that I found in one of these threads and brought it to the dealer. The whine is bad.. same as everone else.. right around 50mph with only a little on the gas. The dealer drove the car with me to ensure we were on the same page and there was a problem. They called me at work 1 hour later and told me I'm now on the list to get a new rear-end differental. I got the same story...that it's in customs. Looking forward to that problem to be fixed..its driving me crazy. BTW- Go check out the CTS-V forums.. those guys have a similar rear end and are having the same exact problems.


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

My rear end is whining on DECEL at 55 to 45 MPH at 500 miles.

I broke her in by the book never exceeded 55 MPH until 500 miles..................so much for "proper break-in"....................

It's not THAT bad, kinda' like it.........................I'll let you know at 35,999 miles......


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> My rear end is whining on DECEL at 55 to 45 MPH at 500 miles.
> 
> I broke her in by the book never exceeded 55 MPH until 500 miles..................so much for "proper break-in"....................
> 
> It's not THAT bad, kinda' like it.........................I'll let you know at 35,999 miles......



Don't wait for the 35,999 miles Vna..... It isn't you, it's your rear end. Dana built a bunch of bad ones, you along with me and many others have the same whine. Call your dealer and tell them about it. Don't let them tell you it's normal and to just turn the radio up. There is a Service Bulletin out on it. Some have had their's replaced, and others are on a waiting list. 

GM is well aware of this problem.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> Don't wait for the 35,999 miles Vna..... It isn't you, it's your rear end. Dana built a bunch of bad ones, you along with me and many others have the same whine. Call your dealer and tell them about it. Don't let them tell you it's normal and to just turn the radio up. There is a Service Bulletin out on it. Some have had their's replaced, and others are on a waiting list.
> 
> GM is well aware of this problem.


do it sound like a toque converter whine or some other type?


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## BLK GOAT (Sep 18, 2005)

Does this happen in 4th gear or any gear? I just hit 578 miles and the only whine I hear is the noise my lips make sliding across my teeth for a great big freakin grin I get every time I drive my Goat.


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## sig229 (Sep 21, 2005)

Tom said:


> Has anyone been getting a clunk from the rear when shifting form 1-2 under light/moderate acceleration? I cant pinpoint the exact shift point i get it?



I am.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

EEZ GOAT said:


> do it sound like a toque converter whine or some other type?



No it's not coming from the torque converter. It is coming from inside the differential. It happens about 48 mph and at about 55 mph you cannot hear it. It happens only when your foot is on the accelerator. When you leave off, the noise stops. It is a defect in the rears built by Dana. What exactly the cause is I don't know. There are many factors that contribute to the whine. Dana has admitted to defective rears, and GM knows about it. 

Funny....Instead of recalling GTO's for possible defects, GM issues a service bulletin, but they DO NOT tell any GTO owners about it. A lot of drivers may not notice if the whine is something they should be concerned about or not. I had thought that the whine was nothing to be concerned about. Because I read this forum, I found that the whine is not normal and upon telling my service advisor about it, I found there is indeed a Service Bulletin out about it. It gives 2 course of actions. 1. Drain the factory oil , and clean the inside of the rear. 2. Replace the existing fluid with a thicker oil, and an additive that is to reduce whine. 3. If that fails, then it states to replace the entire rear.

GM owes it to GTO owners to notify them of this problem. They chose not to. If you have a GTO that has this whine and do nothing about it, and the warranty expires, and there is internal damage done to the differential, will GM make good on a replacement? ...... I don't trust em. GM service has been getting failing grades from everything I have read, and heard about them.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I have a slight whine at those speeds. It only happens when pressure is applied to the throttle. I'm guessing this the noise people are talking about. My goal is to get to 30k before saying anything. My hopes are that then I'll get a new rear and have gotten a bunch of passes at the strip. If not a gear change is in my plans any how so I'm not too concerned. The whine is real quiet, if you have the radio on at all you don't hear it.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> I have a slight whine at those speeds. It only happens when pressure is applied to the throttle. I'm guessing this the noise people are talking about. My goal is to get to 30k before saying anything. My hopes are that then I'll get a new rear and have gotten a bunch of passes at the strip. If not a gear change is in my plans any how so I'm not too concerned. The whine is real quiet, if you have the radio on at all you don't hear it.


Mine isn't too loud either. I had new oil installed in it and it did reduce the noise somewhat. I am not in too big a hurry to have the rear replaced. I am targeting sometime next spring or summer. I do want on a list because I am hearing it takes some time to get one. 

I've read some owners have a loud noise. That would work on my nerves having to hear that all the time. At any rate, I think GM should inspect all GTO's for this problem, not wait to see it an owner hears it and reports it. This is a major deal.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> Mine isn't too loud either. I had new oil installed in it and it did reduce the noise somewhat. I am not in too big a hurry to have the rear replaced. I am targeting sometime next spring or summer. I do want on a list because I am hearing it takes some time to get one.
> 
> I've read some owners have a loud noise. That would work on my nerves having to hear that all the time. At any rate, I think GM should inspect all GTO's for this problem, not wait to see it an owner hears it and reports it. This is a major deal.


 :agree


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## Old Goat / new GTO (Sep 26, 2005)

Bought my 04 GTO in Sept of 04 and after 3k the rear started singing like an opera star between 45 to 60 mph. Took to the dealer 3 times and finally last week they acknowldged the problem and said GM will be giving me an new rear. They said mine was the 25th GTO with this problem. They will be sending my rear back to GM for diagnosis

When I told my wife that I was geting a new rear that would not make noise she was speechless until I told her it was for the GTO and not my own butt. 

Old Goat with a new GTO


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Old Goat / new GTO said:


> Bought my 04 GTO in Sept of 04 and after 3k the rear started singing like an opera star between 45 to 60 mph. Took to the dealer 3 times and finally last week they acknowldged the problem and said GM will be giving me an new rear. They said mine was the 25th GTO with this problem. They will be sending my rear back to GM for diagnosis
> 
> When I told my wife that I was geting a new rear that would not make noise she was speechless until I told her it was for the GTO and not my own butt.
> 
> Old Goat with a new GTO


Glad to know I don't have the only rear that sings.. and I don't mean car :willy: 
There are more than 25...I wonder how many are out there that the owners have no clue if that whine is normal or not, and have not reported it.....Looks like faulty rears carried over from 04' to 05'.
I have to go to my dealer and take a manager out for a test drive... GM wants specifics...I'll give em specifics, BOY will I give em specifics.


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## Old Goat / new GTO (Sep 26, 2005)

*rear noise*

Dealer called today & said new rear was in. I'll keep the forum posted on the performance of the new rear. :cheers

By the way, my rear made noise in all gears and under accel, decell and neutral gas pressure. It was louder than the radio at normal volume. For a new car, that is just not right. Guys, this is not whining, it is holding GM accountable for making reliable world class cars in the 21st century.


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

Ya' know, I am beginning to think that the "whine" is normal, because most of us have it.

Those who DON'T hear it.....they are the ones with the problem.................

BTW, most change out their exhaust JUST to make their cars sound LOUDER!

So why should a little "whine" bother anyone..........it's part of the mystique of ownership for the GTO owner..........I am 'gonna quit my "whining" now.........


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> Ya' know, I am beginning to think that the "whine" is normal, because most of us have it.
> 
> Those who DON'T hear it.....they are the ones with the problem.................
> 
> ...


 :lol: :rofl: 

I believe if the whine was normal, GM would not be changing them out. I could live with mine, but my dealer cannot guarantee the whine won't get worse or lead to other damage. I am having mine changed out in the spring.

I was told today that GM is getting more stingy on replacing the rears. They now want through evaluations done by the dealership before they allocate a replacement. I was informed that the Service Managers will report their findings to GM and GM will decide if the whine is bad enough for replacement. If they feel it is not bad, they will refuse to replace them. Up till now they were changed out at the discretion of the dealership, now there is red tape.

Ain't this some bullsh*t????? With all the complaints about GM's service, this does not surprise me. 

I will quit my whinnying


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> :lol: :rofl:
> 
> I was told today that GM is getting more stingy on replacing the rears.
> 
> ...



Gee, no wonder, it's costing a bunch of money to "fix" something which has no inpact on anything (except our ears!).

Replacing such an expensive part at "the discretion of a dealership" was bogus to begin with. Most of those guys couldn't find their a$$ if it was attached to their body, much less DECIDE that a "noise" from the third member is distracting OR "abnormal"........

I am all for the management at GM (for what THAT is) on deciding what is an issue and what is NOT, 'cause the service techs at most dealerships could give a tinkers damn about some "customer" complaining about a "whine".......


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> Gee, no wonder, it's costing a bunch of money to "fix" something which has no inpact on anything (except our ears!).
> 
> Replacing such an expensive part at "the discretion of a dealership" was bogus to begin with. Most of those guys couldn't find their a$$ if it was attached to their body, much less DECIDE that a "noise" from the third member is distracting OR "abnormal"........
> 
> I am all for the management at GM (for what THAT is) on deciding what is an issue and what is NOT, 'cause the service techs at most dealerships could give a tinkers damn about some "customer" complaining about a "whine".......


According to my Service guy, if a rear needed changed out, "before," it was done at the discretion of the service manager. Now, GM wants a full report and a recommendation by the service manager before rendering a decision. At least that is what I was told.

I agree, some are total goons. Back charging GM for warranty work is easy money for the dealership. What a racket. I took the manager out for a run and he concurred the rear had a whine loud enough that warranted replacing. He also told me another GTO owner was in before me with a whine problem that was barely noticeable, and he thinks GM will not replace that rear. Who is to say, down the road, say after warranty, something becomes of that rear as a result of a whine that was not worth replacing. For 30K + I want it right.

I personally think all GTO's that have a rear with a like build numbers, or lot, numbers be taken in for a thorough inspection and tests performed to assure GTO owners that all is well. Any problems found whether its noticeable by the owners or not should be fixed. Maybe that makes too much sense.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm wondering if any of the replaced rear-ends whine? I'm also wondering if I take my car to the dealer with28k and they say the whine is normal and the rear blows out at 55 if they cover it. Oh well, I have a GMPP till 70k and i rarely keep cars past 50.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> Gee, no wonder, it's costing a bunch of money to "fix" something which has no inpact on anything (except our ears!).
> 
> Replacing such an expensive part at "the discretion of a dealership" was bogus to begin with. Most of those guys couldn't find their a$$ if it was attached to their body, much less DECIDE that a "noise" from the third member is distracting OR "abnormal"........
> 
> I am all for the management at GM (for what THAT is) on deciding what is an issue and what is NOT, 'cause the service techs at most dealerships could give a tinkers damn about some "customer" complaining about a "whine".......


I disagree . If there is no impact as you say , then why doesn't GM come out publically and say what the problem is/was and that it has been fixed for the 2006 models. As this issue sits now , nobody from GM has come out publicly with the cause of the problem and a declaration that it will have "No Impact" . I can adjust to the noises any vehicle gains as it ages , but with a New Car this is unacceptable and requires that they correct it under warranty. This normal error is also effecting CTS-V owners , so something went wrong and it's costing GM . Play it unfront and honest with your customers and they will come back , play games and they won't...

At this point , has anyone had a replacement diff put in and had the whine remain away ? When I restarted this thread , my searching indicated that the replacement was effective for those who had their dealership replace it and commented that it actually improved the feel of the car. With that assumption , those with the concern pushed the issue. ‹(•¿•)›


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

My rear end whine has really gotten bad. I commented on it @ 6000 miles here and at the dealer. The service dept gave me my car back and stated on the paperwork that the whine was "standard differential noise". Now with 9000 miles on it the whine is louder than ever. At 35 its a loud growl that increases to a whine up to 50. When you float the accelerator in between accel and decel at around 40 the damned thing sounds like a PTO on an old Allice Chalmers. It pi$$es me off now when I have to hear it all the time on my commute. The car is going in Friday before I fly out of town and someone from the dealer is going to go for a ride, I'll be damned if thats normal and I'll be damned if I am going to put up with that any more. I can hear it with the windows down, radio on and no GD mufflers on the car now for Christs sake. And they can fix the GD seats I have waited on for 2 months too. Oh! And now the kick panel above the passenger side floorboard that keeps falling down can get fixed too. Friggen *(#&@ b9&@&# #(&$&@)


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

Just got a notice today that the new rear is in for my ride. I'll probably take it in next week for the install. From the sounds of it, I really lucked out that the dealership was so easy to deal with. 

New rear after only 1,700 miles. Weird.


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Finally... the dealer called and my rear axle assembly has arrived (3 months). Will be going in tomorrow morning to start the surgery. They will provide a rental and I'll post all the outcomes/thrills...

As of today - The Whine is still there from 45-55 (on/off gas scenario) but hadn't gotten any louder , so time will tell... I will also be taking in my RP 85-140 for fluid...


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

Good luck!!

Break in the new one carefully...............


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

Be cautious.... these rearends don't stand up to well to power unless upgraded, check out these pics of my stock stub shafts, this was achieved on drag radials on the street!!!  
Passenger side.....








Driver side.....


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> Good luck!!
> 
> Break in the new one carefully...............


Thanks. I'm also going to try and have the dealer install the Pedder's Street I kit at the same time. This will cloud the potential feel of just the New Diff if they'll do it , but save time and $$ as the 4-wheel alignment is their cost. Will see tomorrow...

My second break-in 500 miles should be a blast (Not) . My Goat cruises so well at 80 , that doing 55 max again will be a real effort. Not to speak of all the traffic blowing by me for the 2 1/2 days it takes me to get 500 miles... 

Ahh , I just thought of my motivation (beyond the desire to do it correctly) : get a gas mileage reading over this time at the 55 mph cruise...


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

GTODEALER said:


> Be cautious.... these rearends don't stand up to well to power unless upgraded, check out these pics of my stock stub shafts, this was achieved on drag radials on the street!!!


 

I'm still stock under the hood (except for K&N air filter not CAI). I do have on my
list of mods after 36k the BMR drivetrain Threesome - but the driveshaft I like is the 3.25" Carbon Fiber @ $1200... 

But yes , once the engine mods come the drivetrain is a weak link...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

GTODEALER said:


> Be cautious.... these rearends don't stand up to well to power unless upgraded, check out these pics of my stock stub shafts, this was achieved on drag radials on the street!!!
> Passenger side.....
> 
> 
> ...


Dealer.... the wear on the splines was done by drag racing??

The wear on the splines is not a result of normal wear. The teeth on the hub look almost ground down.

I drive my GTO normally. By normally I mean I do not squeal tires, and do burn out etc. I just drive it without racing it. Although I do at times give her a good run. 

Let me ask.... The wear on the shafts splines, and the hub, is this the result of periodic racing or do you get on it a lot?

If the damage seen is a result of normal driving and an occasional peel out, then we will all have problems.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> Dealer.... the wear on the splines was done by drag racing??
> 
> The wear on the splines is not a result of normal wear. The teeth on the hub look almost ground down.
> 
> ...


The damage was caused by frequent drag racing, however, this drag racing is prodominently done on the street...... (no lectures please), so what I was saying is be cautious things will/can break!


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## 05 goatman (Sep 13, 2005)

gto what have you done as far as upgrading or have you just replaced the worn parts back to oem?


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

05 goatman said:


> gto what have you done as far as upgrading or have you just replaced the worn parts back to oem?


No, I updated to 300M billet steel stub shafts (459.00ea.), I stock the entire BMR line so I had them in stock..... next are the axles (499.00 ea.), driveshaft (899.00), and driveshaft safety loop (89.00). By the time I'm done I should be able to progressively spray off the line with slicks, right now I'm all motor on drag radials (245/45/17 Nitto's), I'm not taking it to the track with the new mods until the damn thing can stay together on the street! :cheers


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

So I left my Goat at the dealer for rearend surgery this morning. After talking with service writer , I decided to not install the X-member and the Caster Kit until rearend is to my liking . Not that they wouldn't do it , just too many changes at one time when I'm trying to know the effect of each mod I do and get the Diff to my idea of normality. (that seems more important to me than $$ from multiple installations - after reflection).

I also mentioned that I wanted RP diff fluid (I brought my own along with the Pedders Parts) and he threw out the warranty catch phrase. I said RP meets the GM spec and left it at the Tech's mercy - noting the customer (me) wanted the RP with no friction modifier added. Time will tell...

There also was a different Tech listening to me as I went thru my speel over this service adventure and after the group broke up , he came over to me and mentioned that another Tech at another Dealership also had a 2005 GTO and they were installing LT headers, exhaust and a Blower . We went around awhile with gear talk and long story short he has a beta blower kit to install. I mentioned the tune and drivetrain issues (which kinda caught him off guard - their plan being 500 hp or bust mentality)  and then left with Enterprise pickup gal. More future posts to share...

I'm currently driving a Malibu , which is lightyears away from the GTO , but free . Will re-post when I'm back in my GTO...


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## danrieke (Oct 12, 2005)

This whine sounds like a thrust bearing. May be due to the design of the drive shaft, or may be why that drive shaft has its mid joint. I'm suspecting they are related issues buried by some engineers in a back room. No reason not to have a solid drive line as the mid-joint only creates a weak link... an undesirable considering the power and torque. So the mid-joint was done to solve a problem somewhere.

The clunk sound is drive-shaft again.

With the low sales figures, purists will want to obtain near-mint shafts from wrecks, as I'm guessing many GTO owners will eventually replace that. Replacing the stock differential will fix that, but also may only permit the problem to recur. Ultimately the cause has to be isolated and fixed. I'm better it's the driveline.


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## The_Goat (Mar 10, 2005)

I've got a whine sound, but its at much higher speeds than people are stating here... I just started noticing it around 70-90 a few days ago. What is involved in changed the diff fluid? What synthetic is recommended?


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

Royal Purple 85-140 and Amsoil are favored by most here and they don't require the friction modifier addition... Checkout the Diff Oil Thread in the Tech Section. But the Warranty issue can raise it's ugly head when moving away from GM's Syn that's OEM...

Also got a late call from Dealership : The Axle Assembly is in (1 day install) and they are finishing up the 4-wheel alignment . I was kinda busy when they called , but I want to say that the whole axle-assembly came ready to bolt in - including all fluids and modifiers already installed. Will get details tomorrow...


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## Xcommuter (Jun 30, 2005)

*My Whine is gone...*

I picked My Goat up and after signing for the no charge Rear Axle Assembly replacement I'll try and share my experience. My Service Writer said The whole unit went in no problem and the Diff came sealed with fluid and just bolted in. As mentioned before this was the only service done (kept the RP for future). He also ordered two other parts that I also brought to his attention , but I'll mention that later , for now my impressions.

First off , I took her in at 8:00 am and they gave me a call at 10:30 am the next day that the 4-wheel alignment was complete and I could pick up my GTO anytime. As I drove off I have to admit some nervousness. BTW , I did ask him the breakin period , and the response was "no breakin that I'm aware of , smoke em when you need to" . But having driven 7000+ miles with the diff whine I was reluctant to push. 

So ... The whine is gone. Kinda funny how my ears had gotten used to the whine and now that it was gone that you're not sure that you are hearing it gone. I played the 40-45-55 up/down may times on the way home and the diff is silent. I can hear the exhaust only - actually kinda of surprized me how good the stock exhaust sounds at 45-55 , especially decelerating.

My GTO also seems to slow corner better , seems tighter , and the clunk I used to get from the A4 just after I took off (say 800 rpm 10 mph-first shift) is also gone . With the trans in D , the only sound from 0-60 is the exhaust (stereo off mode) . While I only have 1 trip since surgery , that 100 miles brought a big smile to my face. Like I said earlier , my ears expect the whine and with it gone the sensation is weird but very much a relief. The GTO is back to what she felt like when I took her off the show room July 1...

My (unneeded ?) break-in on the way home never exceeded 55 and no smoke or chirp from a stop . Also laughed several times as I'm crawling along at 55 in a 65 and everyone passes me , but I'd catch up to them at the next town traffic light. The DIC mpg reading at 55 cruise is 25.6+- inst. and average on my trip was 24.2 mpg ... My Malibu rental was OK , the seats were terrible. Once I learned to put it in Low and use the + and - rocker on the shifter it was much more fun to drive (1-4 autoshift). Also lots of drivers are very bad at passing slower traffic , but that's another thread. I'll drive over cautiously for one more day or so and then back to GTO mode...

I also have two more parts on order , the right rear tirewell liner is loose from the bumper (#92161486) and the fascia has a smudge in the paint the size of my pinky fingernail that would not clay-bar out. So my dealer said replace the whole fascia (the insert with GTO carved out - # 92168891) . After I questioned my SW on these part defects he mentioned something about how the rear bumber is attached differently on the 05 vs. the 04 . He said there is a brace there on the 04 , that was removed when the dual split pipes were added in 05 . Now the fascia and the wheelwell liners are held in place by three bolts and a tack or two . Sounded kinda cheap to me but they are replacing both under warranty as it would not fixup right ...

Lots of words , but I'm a much more happy camper and my Goat feels much better and sounds way way better. To each his own , but my whine is gone and I never considered it normal - to those also waiting -Wish the same result. Time will tell of course , but the three month wait from OZ , thru customs was worth it - Bravo Dealership...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

And someone on this board stated the whine is just a noise, why bother with it, and stick GM with a warranty claim :willy: 

My new rear is going in, in the spring. I was rest assuredly assured that the installation will be 100% right. Spring is just around the corner :willy:


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

My new rear goes in next friday. I'll keep you updated on its progression. 

Old rear = 1,700 miles


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> And someone on this board stated the whine is just a noise, why bother with it,................/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I think that "someone was me", however I am recanting that statement BECAUSE:
> ...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> GTO judge said:
> 
> 
> > And someone on this board stated the whine is just a noise, why bother with it,................/QUOTE]
> ...


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## Stingraye (Sep 3, 2005)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> My new rear goes in next friday. I'll keep you updated on its progression.
> 
> Old rear = 1,700 miles


Hey, just realized you're from west chester! That's where I live too! I havn't seen too many black GTO's around here lately, seen a blue and silver though. You may have seen my TA (sig) around before perhaps. Just wanted to say hey, and I hope I don't get this rear problem when I go to get a GTO in the spring!!


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

Stingraye:

Whats up man. I only drive the Goat on the weekends (and 0% of rain/snow!) I've only seen a red ('04) and a black (05) arond town. There are TONS of sweet F-bodies and C5's in this joint though. 

Where do you plan on getting your new ride? :cheers


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## mnstrundhd (Jul 22, 2005)

I get a clunk in 1st gear at low speed. Have'nt noticed any whine coming from the rear. Oil change is due at 6000 will bring it up to dealer then. Does anybody else have the clunk without the whining noise?


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## raven1124 (Sep 23, 2005)

I do. It's said to be slack in the tranny. Bugs the HELL out of me!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> ...sweet F-bodies...


*OXYMORON ALERT!*

*OXYMORON ALERT!*


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