# Bump stick



## KyleGT05usmc (Feb 28, 2009)

Hey all, I'm going to start researching into getting a good daily driving cam, nothing wild, just a good 1800-6200 range. No super high lift. (any suggestions?) 
but my real questions are:::

1. With a mild cam and daily driving thats slightly 'spirited' how will the stock valve train components hold up? I dont plan on going super high rpm, probably 6200-6300 max. Trying to conserve a little wallet but I definitely don't want to cut a corner if I need something else. 

2. What are the really well used and preferred cam brands with good results? And if you have experience first hand please speak up. 

3. As far as RRs w/o doing a cam, worth it? I think I might get the 1.85 RRs first and then save for cam later if I do need to upgrade entire valve train. From what I understand you get a little more lift but remain same duration off stock cam w/ RRs upgraded. 

any feedback is appreciated. 

Thanks:cheers


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm not a fan of a higher ratio rocker. A design of a cam shaft is more than lift and you're arbitarily changing things. At the least you should change the springs and especially the push rods too. Then when you get a cam you should change the rockers back so why bother? As far as the rockers the most cost effective and trouble free is just get the Harland Sharp or Comp Cam trunnion upgrade for your stock rockers. The stock rockers outside that bearing issue is a very good and lightweight rocker. A lot of people have had good luck with the Comp Cam 224 but I'm partial to Ed Curtis at FlowTech Induction. He has some awesome custom grind cams and uses only the best springs, push rods etc. I run his Street Sweeper HT cam (228/232 .612/.611 111 lsa) and with PROPER TUNING runs very tame yet the car is a beast and traps as high as any LS1 cam only GTO I've seen. The low lsa drops the power band down so it has a lot of grunt. I red line at 6800 rpm but the cam is strongest from 2,500-6,500 rpm. I had a set of new heads I'm putting on sometime this summer and Ed said that the cam would really shine then.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

KyleGT05usmc said:


> Hey all, I'm going to start researching into getting a good daily driving cam, nothing wild, just a good 1800-6200 range. No super high lift. (any suggestions?)
> but my real questions are:::
> 
> 1. With a mild cam and daily driving thats slightly 'spirited' how will the stock valve train components hold up? I dont plan on going super high rpm, probably 6200-6300 max. Trying to conserve a little wallet but I definitely don't want to cut a corner if I need something else.
> ...


Folks have had good luck with aftermarket rockers, on stock cam. *Bluhaven* on the forum with bolt ons, damn good tune, gears, Harland Sharp 1.85 rockers on their 05 auto driven their car into 11.9's in the 1320. It depends on how far you want to take your car. I seen a artical saying that you should change your stock rockers if you going to go above .550" cam lift. Your putting undue stress on the valvetrain. I have the artical somewere and I think someone had posted on here.


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## KyleGT05usmc (Feb 28, 2009)

Thats some good info. Thanks. One of the things I'm really concerned about is, i wanted to start calling around and talking to people but im really hesitant because i dont want to talk to someone just trying to sell as much sh!t to me as possible. 


SLP Rocker Arm Package w/ Springs, Retainers, and Keepers (1.85 Ratio) - LS1/LS2 GTO, Corvette, F-body [SLP51186] - $1,099.95$989.96 : MarylandSpeed.com- Your First Stop on the Way to Performance! this seems to have what i need besides pushrods or lifters. guessing people retain stock valves in mild applications?

To be completely honest, i have the basic theory of cam function down but need some in detail explanation. Anyone know a really good book or source to look that up?
I get things like lift, duration, lobe seperation, but i need to figure out how the different length pushrods and different ratio RRs effect the other things, basically the synergy of the whole thing... like what decides if i want 7.400" or 7.450" pushrods? will a longer pushrod increase lift? etc etc

i'd rather figure out more about the whole thing versus just having someone build a kit for me. just so many factors/brands/numbers its sort of overwhelming...


i appreciate the feedback, hopefully i can figure this out lol.


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## KyleGT05usmc (Feb 28, 2009)

Svede just curious whats the downfall to the higher ratio RRs on the upgraded cam? doesnt it just add a little more lift to the cams lift?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Here is some good reading for you:
*** Cam Guide *** - LS1TECH

I have books from Lingenfelter and other authors that is pretty good at explaining engine basics old and new motors.

Stock pushrod length will be fine, most instances I've seen where the push rods need to be changed if the cam has a small base circle, milled heads or shorter than stock valves.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I've seen the same article. It was one opinion (i don't remember if it was TrickFlow but they have a dog in the fight). Some head manufacturers have softer valve guides and TF changes the geometry significantly. I've also seen opinions of some valve train experts that it isn't an issue until after .6 with most heads. To just slap on rockers you're changing the geometry of the push rods and contact with the valve. Think about it. You have to either make one side shorter or the other side longer. The stock LS push rods are extremely light and rigid _because_ they are steel. The aluminum ones aren't as rigid (rocker and push rod rigidity are extremely important at higher RPM), have to have a lot of material to try to make up for it nor as light in the place that really matters, the tip. You can put a lot of weight at the fulcrum point as long as the ends are light. That's where you get inertia and lack of control from weight. If you look around long enough you'll see failures from just about every brand of aftermarket RRs. The stockers only fail at the trunnion bushing which the kit addresses. Anecdotal stories of someone or a couple of someones doing "X" don't carry a lot of weight with me. If you change the lift, put on a weaker rocker and don't at least change the push rods (stiffer) and ideally the springs, you're doing a hack job and increasing your odds of trouble IMHO.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I forgot to add is. Anytime you increase valve lift, valve springs need to be changed. Another thing I would change is push rods. If possable anytime valvespring components are changed you should have the rocker arm geometry check. Unless you bought a cam from someone that knows their chit and its is proven. When adding valve lift you may increase the side loading on the valve stem and valve guides, this is a concern with stock rockers and high lift cams. The artical said .550" lift for stock rockers, but I have issues with that because of my setup. On the other hand I don't have proof to say its wrong. Roller rockers reduce the side loading on valves, because the tip rolles across the tip of the valve.


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## KyleGT05usmc (Feb 28, 2009)

Hmmm. Digesting everything.. 

Well I'm definitely going to read that thread once i get the time, been on the rifle range all week, hours suck. 
i'm probably not going to go over .550 lift in order to save a little on the wallet. So theoretically, leave the stock RRs, lifters, and valves. Just get stronger pushrods and stiffer springs (guessing rated up to .600 lift or would that be too stiff?) along with the cam. 
Now i just need to find some well known brands/grinds around my target zone. 
Anyone know a reputable tuner around eastern NC area?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

If your going to upgrade your cam do it right. Pushrods, springs, and optional rockers. Like, svede and I said about what the artical said .550", svede saw .600+ somewere, kinda iffy info. I'm running .571"/.580" on stock rockers without any issues and mine been through hell more than most people on this board have put their car through and its a DD. If I were you I go with a custom grind cam, and who ever grinds it for you can recommend the best valvetrain combo for you.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

svede1212 said:


> I run his Street Sweeper HT cam (228/232 .612/.611 111 lsa) and with PROPER TUNING runs very tame yet the car is a beast and traps as high as any LS1 cam only GTO I've seen. *The low lsa drops the power band down* so it has a lot of grunt. I red line at 6800 rpm but the cam is strongest from 2,500-6,500 rpm. I had a set of new heads I'm putting on sometime this summer and Ed said that the cam would really shine then.


See this is where I start getting lost on the subject of cams... I understand lift, but not so much duration, lobe separation, and advance, and their effects. I swore I read somewhere that a higher LSA, like 114, would offer better midrange power than a 110 or a 112. I heard stock is something like 115 or 116.

Most guys go for that peaky power, but I'd like to pick a stick that offers a fatty TQ curve without worrying so much about HP numbers. I would say at least 75% of my driving is between the 1200-3000RPM range anyways.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

The way I understood duration, and LSA is how and where you want the power. If I rember correctly, short duration cams give better low end because the open and shut the valves quickly to trap theair charge. They hurt top end because they don't fill the cylinder with enough air on the top end. I grew up building SBC's so the gen III and up are alittle different mostly because of the roller setup. Roller cams snap opern the valves a lot quicker than flat tappets. Stock LSA is around 115-116.5 that gives us a wider usable power throught the RPM band. Notice how stock dynos the tor+ue curve is wide and nearly flat. When tighten up the LSA you tend to have more of a peak in power. Wider LSA's have broad power. The chopp in the way the car runs is more in the LSA than duration. Supercharged engines love wide LSA cams because you don't bleed off boost on the exhaust side. They also love reverse split cams too. Timing a cam is more of fine tuning the power band by advancing or retarding it, VVT/cam phasing works on this priciple. That's about what I remember. I'm a little rusty in cams.

There is a lot more to it than that but that's some of the basics. You still have lobe cenerline too. That's why I tell people to have a custom grind cam made for your application than to buy a he said she said cam.


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## KyleGT05usmc (Feb 28, 2009)

I like where the thread is going. Lots of good info. Still gotta take time to read that article from ls1tech. 
And I had no idea stock LSA was that high. back in my LT1 days a 115-116 was insane LSA... 
So what are some good companies that make a custom grind depending on what you tell them your goals are?


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