# 4 Speed Auto worth it?



## Billy Sacco (Mar 3, 2008)

Hello all I have been looking at the GTO and seriously considering it. I have an 02 Acura TL-S and its pretty quick for what it is but I want an 05-06 GTO for those 400 horses. Anyhow like the title says I don't really want to get a manual (I know I know). Does anyone have the auto? Is it decent with the power this engine is putting out? Will it take the abuse of a few minor mods(intake, exhaust, headers)? Thanks for any help and hope to maybe have a GTO in good shape soon.


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## KMAC (Sep 4, 2007)

I have an 05 with the auto thats bone stock, and have no complaints with it. Its all personal preference to me. I prefer autos compared to stick cause a built auto transmission with all the toys, torque converters, shift kits etc, will always outshift any stick driver. The one thing I do like about the stick is, its much more fun to drive especially when compared stock auto to stock stick. Launching a car with stick and banging through gears is much more fun than an auto will ever be. As far as the performance, suposely the automatic out performs the stick in 0-60 slightly.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

If your really good with a stick shift, the stick is the quicker of the 2 if your average, there's no difference to a slight advantage toward the Auto in drag racing. 

The auto tranny that they use is a very good unit. the shift logic is decent and it takes abuse pretty well. It can definately hold up with headers, exhaust and intake. 

If you don't like shifting there really isn't a penalty involved in getting an Auto. Get what you like and don't sweat it.


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## 05_GTO (Mar 1, 2006)

Autos are easier to get out of the hole, as far as drag racing they are the way to go. Once you get a stall put in, shift kit, etc they are a lot of fun. 

Also yes the autos will be able to take bolt on mods no problem. Just get an aftermarket trans cooler.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

It's preference and what your goals are for your driving needs and racing. 
A good manual driver will outperform a automatic but everyone thinks they are good ...and they are not. At least in consistently, which is what you would need at the track.

I live in the Mountains so I have plenty of windy roads with enormous straight a ways.
I've mentioned the mountain roads and twisties here on several occassions and no-one takes the bite, so I feel I'm solo here to enjoy the pleasures of downshifting and shooting out of turns with the GTO. That's why I would never go automatic. 
I'm also stuck in some time groove that dictates a muscle car HAS to be manual. Just my preference.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

Both trannies are good. I went with the A/4 because it shifts faster then the M/6 & it is more consistant when raced at the track. on the down side if you install a cam on the A/4 you will have to install a torque convertor. You will be happy with either one, they are both hooked up to the same killer motor.


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

I drove the auto and agree, the shift logic, and overall feel of the tranny is excellent.... Don't sweat that it's "only" got 4-speeds, it does the right things with those 4 gears, which is far preferable to the schizoid 6-speeds GM is now putting behind the 6.0 and 6.2. 

The tranny logic in my wife's Escalade is horrendous, and downshifts are coffee-spillers with the back-n-forth lurching.. And recently, the new G8 got really poo-poo'd in Car & Driver due to it's annoying 6-speed auto.. GM's got some work to do with that new tranny, I think they're trying to get "too fancy" with the programming...

Regarding manual vs. auto at the dragstrip, we recently just had that argument. 

Stock vs. Stock:

- The auto is slower in the 1/4-mile, but theoretically more consistent, and ANYONE can drive it to full-potential

- The manual is POTENTIALLY quicker in the 1/4, it's a matter of less weight, less parasitic drag, and more plentiful and superior effective ratios. Problem is, not everybody can drive the manual to its full-potential, hence the arguing here over whether "more consistent" or "easier" equals "faster". I say DON'T BLAME THE CAR because you, or the guy you're racing, can't row a stick shift worth a damn... The M6 is not "slower" than your A4, the pilot simply sucks, end of story. Yes, when you get into modern 6 & 7 speed autos, the tables begin to turn, as it takes away one of the intrinsic advantages of the manual. But now we're playing "bench racing in fantasy land"....

Of course, once you start modifying the auto, you can create advantages that will eventually equal and/or overcome the potential advantages of the manual... But when you start talking about serious modifications, you toss all arguments/debates out the window, the fastest car is the fastest car depending on the overall build, not just one component like the tranny...

Bottom line, if you want an auto, you'll LOVE the old-school quick shifting intuitive and un-intrusive A4 in the GTO. It doesn't try to boggle you with upshifts and downshifts, it just does what you want it to, period.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

*Auto vs Manual*

I purchased My new 06 Torrid Red GTO A4 because it was the last one on the lot, brand new, and so-called relative owns dealership and gave me a great deal. I love it!!! I have made a few mods, but minor just to get an extra edge. Besides my new paint issued to rear valance/fascia the car kicks you know what. I now it has been said over and over that opinions are like a&^ Holes and everyone has one, but manuals are fun to drive but not in all situations. I love my auto and now if I had a choice I would stick with the auto.


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## Billy Sacco (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks all for the replies and I figured as much just wanted to see what everyone though since I saw a lot of manuals here. Seems like adding more gears just creates more things to break. Great example is my car. Acura had 4 speeds in the previous gen and those lasted 100k miles plus most of the time. My gen was their first attempt at 5 speed and they brake often. Mine has been replaced twice and I am almost out of warranty so I kind of want to run from the car screaming.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

69bossnine said:


> recently, the new G8 got really poo-poo'd in Car & Driver due to it's annoying 6-speed auto.. GM's got some work to do with that new tranny, I think they're trying to get "too fancy" with the programming...


I think you should flush C&D down the hole with your poo poo... They never wrote a kind word about the GTO and it continues with that idiot piece on the G8.

Counter points to C&D can be found on;
2008 Pontiac G8 GT Full Test
_The *Pontiac's six-speed automatic clicked off clean, crisp gearchanges *just before its 6,000-rpm rev limiter, and kept pace with that Charger well past 100 mph._
_The Pontiac's six-speed automatic is an absolute performance advantage over the Bee's sluggish five-speed._

and;
2008 Pontiac G8 GT Test Drive: Poncho Gets Its V8 Muscle-Car Mojo Back - Popular Mechanics
_Pontiac says the 3995-pound G8 GT will hit 60 mph in 5.3 seconds and run through the 0.25-mile in 13.8 seconds at 101 mph. Those are solid numbers, rivaling the expensive 425-hp Dodge Charger SRT8 sedan and blowing the 340-hp Charger R/T into the weeds. On the street, the G8 feels even quicker than those numbers suggest. The V8 pulls strong from the lowest point on the tach all the way up to the top of the gauge. And the *transmission bangs off crisp shifts all the way through the gears*. Smoky burnouts? Check. Yes, it certainly accelerates like a muscle sedan. And our test car’s melted-down, 19-in. rear tires prove that._


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Ummmmm..... That's with your foot on the floor.... That speaks NOTHING to how the transmission behaves the other 99.5% of the time you're driving... I've driven my fair share of cars that shift like clockwork at WOT, but the rest of the time are confused and flustered to the point you want to drive it off a bridge. Those quotes tell me little to nothing..

BTW, I can't remember anything C&D wrote about the GTO, that I don't recognize, perceive and accept in my own car... Nothing's perfect, you don't have to get mad about it...

Usually when I read most any of the major car mags, when they've got a gripe, even if it's about a car that I own and love, I usually admit, "yep, they're not wrong...". I may only disagree on how IMPORTANT the gripe may be in the universal-scheme of things.. 

If it weren't for the critics and the competition, we'd still be driving the same JUNK that GM was tossing toward us in the 80's. I hope Pontiac takes all the nit-picks, and continues to work towards improving...


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I have a HUGE issue with C&D on the GTO article where they compared the 05 versus the Mustang GT. The GTO beat the Mustang in every measured catagory, so they invented a catahory called "gotta have it" because they felt the Mustang was the better looking car. They then gave the Mustang enough points to eek out a win. 

Everthing they said was right on though. The shifter was somewhat vague and clunky. The GTO ran away from the Mustang GT with ease. The GTO rode well and was very well balanced in the handling department, just like a GT coupe should be. 

69bossnine is exactly right about the 6spd auto. I had one on my C6. Yep they are faster than the 4 spd auto and the 6M in the Corvette. Yep, at wide open throttle they shift clean and crisp. But here's the downside, the Manumatic mode is so slow that you need to change gears at least a half second before you want the shift. Then it's never smooth. In the automatic mode it holds gears at times that you don't want it too, and downshifts pretty lazy, sometimes causing snap downshifts. 

I did like the shift logic that downshifted the tranny as you braked, the more aggressive you are with the brakes, the more aggresive the tranny downshifts. The overdrive ratio is excellent on the Corvette and allowed me to see as high as 34 mpg on several highway trips and average 29.5 on a 10,000 mile cross country tour last summer. 80% of the time it was a great transmission, 15 percent it was just ok, but when it screwed up, it was really obvious that it just flubbed it's lines.


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Fergy, even though I'm certain there's considerably different program-calibration, your complaints about the A6 in your C6 are exactly the same problems I curse in my wife's 'Sclade, only the Caddy is worse... Holding a tall gear like 4 or 5, rather than downshifting, and as a result just sitting there "buuhhhwuhhhh" going nowhere... Then conversely on the low end of the range, downshifting to first when 2nd would have tugged it out just fine, and sending the entire family into whiplash therapy. And the piece de resistance... Getting totally befuddled between two gears, and doing NOTHING for 1 or 2 seconds, as traffic is about to run you over, so you floor it to snap it out of it's digital-overload, and again, send the family flying into the 3rd-row seats... 

The damn thing never seems to do what you want it to, or expect it to...

It's a whale of a nice SUV, except the A6 tranny stinks. Could be purely computer calibration, or it could also be endemic to the design... I know it doesn't make me want to run out and buy a G8, when I can't stand the 6.2L with A6 I own, you aren't exactly glowing about the one you had, and the first legit magazine to test it (I mean, c'mon, Edmunds?? Popular Mechanics?? Why don't you run a quote from Consumer Reports while you're at it? LOL!!) has a tester come out and describe the transmission as "terminally confused" and "reluctant downshifts with a neck-bending lurch", let's all think.... Do we see a common thread here with the 6L80? It sure seems familiar to me, the same nonsense that makes me want to punch the dash of my wife's boat.

I thought the article was fine, and I'm waiting for the higher-performance manual-shift G8 that's rumored..

Fergie, I read that Mustang/GTO comparo, and you're right on all points... However, when you look at what Mustang GT sales were and are, and what Pontiac GTO sales were, you can't deny the "gotta have it" factor does mean alot to the buying market... Besides, comparo tests are fine and dandy, but you buy a car for your own reasons. What may make one car win a test, may not mean beans to you. But so many people read the things like it's a damn sporting event, screaming if their team doesn't win... It just doesn't matter..

Besides, if they had given a decisive victory to the GTO, maybe sales would've tripled, and everybody here would've bitched "man, now I see one on every street corner", and sell their car...


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> I think you should flush C&D down the hole with your poo poo... They never wrote a kind word about the GTO and it continues with that idiot piece on the G8.
> 
> Counter points to C&D can be found on;
> 2008 Pontiac G8 GT Full Test
> ...


I don't have a lot of faith as to what gets posted in car mags. They are ususally biased one way or another. I want to see if Hyundai will stuff their new 375 HP motor in the Tiburon.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

i have not read all the post yet. but i have 05 A4 and i love it. but i wish the shift points were better ( a whole lot better). the a4 shifts to early IMO. a hand held tuner will fix that and and you can get more TQ. dont go to 0 TQ managment or you will snap your neck.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

EEZ GOAT said:


> i have not read all the post yet. but i have 05 A4 and i love it. but i wish the shift points were better ( a whole lot better). the a4 shifts to early IMO. a hand held tuner will fix that and and you can get more TQ. dont go to 0 TQ managment or you will snap your neck.


I also have a 05 with A/4 trans and it is great. shift points can be changed with a tune. I am very happy with how fast mine will shift when on the gas.A 3600 stall torque convertor helps . I really like jumping on the gas and have it down shift a gear or two and then hitting very hard on the up shifts.


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