# Considering Purchasing a '06 GTO 6M, could use some advice/perspective.



## GRT_WHT (Feb 24, 2010)

Hello. Let me lead off by saying I have been a huge fan of the GTO my entire adult life. I remember oggling over them my senior year of high school, and that passion has never died. I have never owned one, and I have come across a unique opportunity. There is a Goat for sale locally(well, sort of lol) that has drawn my attention. It is an '06 with the FULL SAP and 6M in electric blue. I love the look of the SAP, and I know how rare these things are. The car appears to be in good condition, and it only has about 13,500 miles on it. It is currently on consignment on a used lot for about 22,800, but I have been in touch with the actual owner and I am going to try and deal directly with him. He states that the car is completely stock with the exception of the clutch, which is aftermarket and he also looped the "lockout" on 1st and 4th gears. Now, I was originally planning on buying a truck this summer but if I decide to buy the GTO I will put off the truck until next summer so I can pay off the goat. This will mean that I will DD the goat for 8-12mos.Finally, the car is appx 350 mi away. I wont be able to really have a look at it until I am serious about buying. With all of that said, I have a few questions-

1.) I am shooting to buy the car for about $21k or so. What are the opinions on that price?

2.) What is the lockout he was talking about, and how would he have looped it?

3.) He is, apparently, the third owner. Should that throw up some flags?

4.) Is there any problems that I should be looking for?

5.) How is the reliability on these cars? I am not expecting infallible, but I also don't want to have to pour several thousand dollars into it immediately after purchase. I do have a fallback vehicle(gf's fusion), but I need the vehicle to not be out of commission for long periods of time.

6.) How do these cars do in winter/snow? Again, I realize this is not the ideal choice for a winter vehicle but I am thinking a good set of blizzaks and the traction control will make it servicable. Plus, it will be only for one winter and again, gf's car(AWD for the win).

7.) Any other recommendations/concerns I am not thinking of?


I really appreciate any feedback that can be given. As you can tell by my join date, I have been lurking here for several years and it seems like this place has some knowledgeable people and I look forward to responses. Thanks a lot!:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

1.) I am shooting to buy the car for about $21k or so. What are the opinions on that price? No options Car came with no options other than an smokers kit. The SAP was an option, may add a few dollars to the price of car but is not worth much more than others. 

2.) What is the lockout he was talking about, and how would he have looped it? Skip Shift. Cheap fix to the lockout at 1-2nd shift, not necessary but to some a nuisance.

3.) He is, apparently, the third owner. Should that throw up some flags? 3rd Owner? 21K TOO HIGH. IMO: 3rd owner at 13K miles? Miles are low owner ship is high. IMO just based on that 19K or so.

4.) Is there any problems that I should be looking for?
Yes, so many and discussed check the archives on this forum every issue has been discussed over and over and over. Problems are not so much mechanical, its the other parts like seat tears, paint chipping, nuisance. stuff.

5.) How is the reliability on these cars? I am not expecting infallible, but I also don't want to have to pour several thousand dollars into it immediately after purchase. I do have a fallback vehicle(gf's fusion), but I need the vehicle to not be out of commission for long periods of time.
Go to your former Pontiac Dealer and ask them to run a GMVIS on the car, provide them the VIN, this will tell you if any work was performed by a GM service center. This is more reliable than a carfax. Any warranty work will be noted. Mechanically the LS2 and trans are good and reliable. There are quirks and at 13K and 3rd owner you being the 4th?? 

6.) How do these cars do in winter/snow? Again, I realize this is not the ideal choice for a winter vehicle but I am thinking a good set of blizzaks and the traction control will make it servicable. Plus, it will be only for one winter and again, gf's car(AWD for the win).
Not a snow car, you'll need winter tires. 17" tires came with summer tread, 18" came with M&S tires.

7.) Any other recommendations/concerns I am not thinking of?
Consignment 22+K? This is way over priced. Even 21K is salty. The lure is 13K miles, 3 owners is a red flag. Low miles= higher price Quantity of owners also= lower price.Dealer is making money by cosigning, will be give you a warranty with it? Factor in a warranty with this purchase, you'll be glad ya did. I am not a proponent of extended warranties overall but when it comes to performance cars, more than likely... you'll be using it.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

1. Price is worth whatever it is to you. I wouldn't give $20k for any stock GTO though.
2. Thats Skipshift (basically a resister)
3. I've never been one to car about the # of owners. I wouldn't pay top dollar for a car that had 3 owners and less then 15k miles though.
4. Google, this question is asked all the time.
5. I was never left stranded really... but when something brakes you are out of luck as most parts aren't in stock and have to be ordered.
6. Snow is not an issue. I was able to plow snow with my front bumper running good all-seasons. Snow tire would of been even better


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> 1.) I am shooting to buy the car for about $21k or so. What are the opinions on that price? No options Car came with no options other than an smokers kit. The SAP was an option, may add a few dollars to the price of car but is not worth much more than others.
> 
> 2.) What is the lockout he was talking about, and how would he have looped it? Skip Shift. Cheap fix to the lockout at 1-2nd shift, not necessary but to some a nuisance.
> 
> ...


I actually don't trust the GMVIS any more then I do Carfax. About 1/3 of my wife's HHR SS services didn't show on the GMVIS but we have the paperwork from the numerous dealers showing it was done...

I think you got the 17 & 18s mixed up. 18s were summer tires. 17s came stock with all-seaons. Either way with the age of the tires the OP should probally put new ones on anyway.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> I actually don't trust the GMVIS any more then I do Carfax. About 1/3 of my wife's HHR SS services didn't show on the GMVIS but we have the paperwork from the numerous dealers showing it was done...
> 
> I think you got the 17 & 18s mixed up. 18s were summer tires. 17s came stock with all-seaons. Either way with the age of the tires the OP should probally put new ones on anyway.


Wrong. 17" were summer tread, look it up. 18" were definitely all seasons. I have 17" and no full well whats on the car.

GMVIS is a data base GM service centers log information from servicing on a car. Nothing is infallible, techs are supposed to log it. I check my GMVIS from my dealer from time to time to make sure all work is entered and so far everything ever done is. The T/A I purchased the GMVIS shown items the car fax didn't and all work was listed by date and $$.

The GMVIS is a starting point. Don't discourage a prospective new owner to not trust it and disavow it. Its not the tell all its a reference and starting point.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm fairly sure the 17s came with BFGoodrich g-Force T/a KDSW which are an all-season. The wife's 05 that had 18s and came with Bridgestone Potenza RE040 which are summer tires

Go to tirerack.com and click on OE replacement. Its shows the same as I stated above.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

You're incorrect.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> I'm fairly sure the 17s came with BFGoodrich g-Force T/a KDSW which are an all-season. The wife's 05 that had 18s and came with Bridgestone Potenza RE040 which are summer tires
> 
> Go to tirerack.com and click on OE replacement. Its shows the same as I stated above.


A year or so ago BF Goodrich stopped making the exact same KDWS tire that came on the car from factory. This I learned from: My dealer when I had one tire in need of replacing. There was a back order. I called Discount tire direct and was told the same thing. This tire is no longer being made due to the lack of demand. However in the near future I was told they will be coming out with a new version of this tire.

Take a look at the tire tread on the one from Tire rack this is indeed a M&S tire. This IS NOT the same tire that came on the car from factory. KDWS came from factory NOT KDW. 










Now look at the tread on this one >>










This is NOT a M & S tire. This is the exact tire that came on the 17" GTO from factory. Yes it says water and ice and snow but its a summer tread. Read the reviews. This tire if you inquire on it will be told is a summer tread you can tell just by looking at the tread. This tire is no longer made. Look where it says back order, this has not been updated in over a year. The KDW replaces the KDWS. All tires will whisk away water and snow but are not truly rated M&S. The NEW T/A KDW is water and snow rated and reads to be a better tire, could be why the OEM one is no longer made many complaints on longevity and handling as the reviews indicate.

Had the KDW been available when I needed them I may have sprung for a set however they are quite a bit more $ than the Hankooks I installed: A Summer Tread Hankook a "M&S" Hankook is on my WS.6. Same tire different tread different weather element. 

Some of the complaints on the KDWS is the wearing of tread. Those were ignorant of the rear end sag due to factory springs not setting properly and wearing the inside tread prematurely. Discount Tire appears they do not carry the KDW Tire rack does. The KDWS tire was a harder rubber as compared to a true mud and snow tire. 

This tire here is on my WS.6 Summer tire it says with good winter tread this is suited for all around driving rated A in traction>>









This tire here is on my ;05 GTO says it handles water this is a summer tread look at the tread obviously NOT winter wear tire, also rated A traction.>


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## GRT_WHT (Feb 24, 2010)

First off, thank you for the feedback. It seems that the three owner thing is as disconcerting for others as it is for me. The car blue books at 21,900 in excellent, 21,400 in good condition. Does that sway anyone's opinion on the price or should I still be shooting for the 19-20k range? In terms of tires, yeah i do indeed plan on buying a set of blizzaks and I'll probably drop a couple sandbags in the trunk to put some extra weight over the drive wheels. I dont plan on jumping into anything, as I have no interest in making a boneheaded decision and overpaying for what will eventually work out to be a toy. However, if I can get a good deal on it I will make it work for a winter while I pay it off and then next summer I will buy a truck and it will become a full toy. The car is on consignment right now, but I have been in touch with the owner and he has to take it off consignment on the 6th. If it hasnt sold by then, I will try dealing directly with him(not gonna bother with the dealer). As I stated earlier, I wasn't really planning on buying a GTO right now but I know how incredibly hard it can be to find one with the full sport appearance package and that's the only reason why I am pursuing this one at this moment. In terms of having to wait on parts, thats pretty much par for the course for me. I live in AK, so if it isnt a part for a silverado or tahoe, the dealer doesnt stock it. Finally, on the topic of warranties, I will consider it. I understand what you are saying(sports cars tend to be thrashed), but I am pretty fundamentally against a warranty in general. And, again, after 8-10 mos it will be a toy and I will be tinkering on it anyway and I wouldnt want to buy a warranty just to turn around and void it 8 mos later lol. Thanks for all the help guys.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

19K range for a 6 year old car with 3 owners= Great Buy. KBB says 22, KBB is a guideline. The market is NOT a V8 market right now. IMO I'd go in at 19 and play with him. I'd not go over 20.5 again get the VIN and have a GMVIS done on it.

Ask to see all receipts. If you can get the car for 20K ya done good. As long as it checks out.


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## GRT_WHT (Feb 24, 2010)

GTO JUDGE said:


> 19K range for a 6 year old car with 3 owners= Great Buy. KBB says 22, KBB is a guideline. The market is NOT a V8 market right now. IMO I'd go in at 19 and play with him. I'd not go over 20.5 again get the VIN and have a GMVIS done on it.
> 
> Ask to see all receipts. If you can get the car for 20K ya done good. As long as it checks out.


Plus I know he has been trying to sell this particular car for almost a year now(saw a classified posting in another GTO forum for it from last October, he was asking $24k then). I know he has had it on craigslist since at least the beginning of June. I am trying to figure out if he really wants to sell it and hasnt had any takers or he is angling for a certain price and hasnt been able to get it. I suppose I will find out in about a week if it is still available.


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## GRT_WHT (Feb 24, 2010)

....or has something seriously wrong with it and it hasnt sold because of that.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

GRT_WHT said:


> ....or has something seriously wrong with it and it hasnt sold because of that.


If this car was such a good deal you wouldn't be debating buying it because it would have been gone long ago. Get a GMVIS on it ask for the VIN then run it. 24K for this car was a fair price 4 years ago. It's over priced 21-22K in this market, this is leading to it sitting. A rise in gas prices and the fact its a 3rd owner and up for sale. The guy may be trying to recoup what he overpaid for it too. You have no idea what may be wrong with it and at 13K miles it was not driven enough for the potential issues to show. On the other hand it may check out. Ask for previous owners contacts and see if he's forthcoming on it, if he is, attempt to contact at least the one he purchased it from. 

If you do decide on this car you'd be wise to get a GOOD warranty on it. Don't buy the car without one.


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## dudleylabauve (Apr 19, 2012)

I bought an 05' brand new, had it 5 years, and sold it to a friend. I then bought an 06' in October 2010 from Fred Beans Hyundai via Autotrader.com for $21,500. It is a black M6, no SAP. The car had 3 prior owners and 17,700 miles on it. Aside from some minor road chips, the car was like new and in two years has given me no problems, but I have been upgrading the suspension, drive train, etc., by choice that is. One of the issues I learned from the ownership of the 05' are the seams at the top of the rear seats may split, likely because of heat, so, I immediately got the windows tinted with high quality tint for the 06' - cost was about $170. Another issue with these cars are radius rod bushings, strut bushings and strut bearings. I reccommend replacing these for safety, but, you may have a car that doesn't exhibit these common traits, but I believe it will, eventually. You'll know what I'm talking about when you start to hear weird noises coming from the front end and it gets a little squirrely under relatively hard steering. The aforementioned factory parts are often shot after just 15,000 miles. The parts I mentioned aren't too expensive, and the labor depends on whether you can DIY or not. Anyway, I'm no expert, but I've owned 2 of these cars, one of which I still own, and the problems I've mentioned are very common.


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## EagleGoat (Jun 6, 2012)

I wouldn't rely too much on one pricing method. When I bought mine I used an average of kbb, edmunds, and NADA to find a price I was comfortable paying. Using that info I ended up getting them down to a grand less than that and was happy.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Many of the issues reported are coming from 2-4th owners. Most original owners dumped these cars. There were issues with this car no doubt and it got owners who didn't abuse or drive their cars hard. However, most of the issues reported are coming from these 2-4th owners who are experiencing the affects of abuse or the car being driven for what it WAS NOT designed for by previous owners who dumped them because they were ignorant on the car or found the cost to repair was not worth it, they got their rocks off on it and dumped it. Because of this, parts are wearing out prematurely or are failing as a result of this. Along comes a guy who is basically clueless on this car and buy it not knowing the full history of the car, the maintenance on them or just the lack of knowledge of owning an expensive car.

The biggest misconception on the car is that right out of the box it is track ready and ready to tame anything on 4 wheels on the streets. This is the furthest from the truth. Improper break in on the motor was the biggest issue. Rings not setting properly during the break in period causing excessive oil and fuel consumption. Guys reporting their car getting 12 mpg on highway? Your car most probably was not broken in in accordance to GM, same with oil. 

While its true there are quirks with the car beyond the best of care, most of the issues are because of owners beating the pi$$ out of these without a care in the world, it has 400HP therefor its made to beat the living $hit out of. Day in day out they pound it. They blame the car, they dump the car, the car is gone over by a dealer cleaned and put on the lot. YOU come along like it have to have it and buy it. You just inherited someones nightmare. 

This has been going on for years, we read the stories on here. My car has 42K on it and drives fine, I adhered to break in and drive the car for what it was meant for. Sure on occasion I get on it, I had it on the track at Watkins Glenn seeing what it can do. If I drove it like MOST on here brag about I'd have the same problems these guys on here cry about. 

This is NOT a race car out of the box. Chances are your car you got 3-4 owner.... your car was beaten to death and you don't even know it. The parts in need of replacing are more than likely the results of hot shot road racers who got their jollies on it and dumped it and now you got it.

It's a never ending cycle in here reading the stories and results. Personally for me?? I know this car, I know how most abused them, for me? I would not buy one of these used unless I know the owner and how it was cared for. The odds of getting one of these on a lot with relatively no major issues is slim. This is why I suggest you factor in and get a warranty with this car. More then likely you will use it.


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## bills_zpam (Sep 22, 2011)

GTO JUDGE said:


> A year or so ago BF Goodrich stopped making the exact same KDWS tire that came on the car from factory. This I learned from: My dealer when I had one tire in need of replacing. There was a back order. I called Discount tire direct and was told the same thing. This tire is no longer being made due to the lack of demand. However in the near future I was told they will be coming out with a new version of this tire.
> 
> Take a look at the tire tread on the one from Tire rack this is indeed a M&S tire. This IS NOT the same tire that came on the car from factory. KDWS came from factory NOT KDW.
> 
> ...


It's possible that they came with both, but I can assure you, mine came with 18" Pontenzas.


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## Kelly-05 (Feb 11, 2012)

My .02
I am on my second one. When I was looking for my second one about 6 months ago, I found plenty out there with VERY low miles. This one had 1800 on it.
Most owners were older guys like myself, not many kids could pay 32-35K for wheels. Plus, it's just not a Honda .
The cars were purchased as toys, second cars, garage kept. As with all toys, they come and go. Why I think I could find so many with very low miles, mint condition.
While I also would prefer a one owner car, I don't think in these it's as big a deal. The toy passed through a few hands is all. I have yet to see a beat up, abused GTO, or a irresponsible owner. Of course they are out there, but should be easy to spot.
I have bought a new car pretty much every other year for the past 25 years. Most were sports cars. The GTO stacks up to Number one in performance, comfort, reliability and fun. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

bills_zpam said:


> It's possible that they came with both, but I can assure you, mine came with 18" Pontenzas.


They didn't come with both...... READ 17" 
18" came with the Potenzas.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Kelly-05 said:


> My .02
> I am on my second one. When I was looking for my second one about 6 months ago, I found plenty out there with VERY low miles. This one had 1800 on it.
> Most owners were older guys like myself, not many kids could pay 32-35K for wheels. Plus, it's just not a Honda .
> The cars were purchased as toys, second cars, garage kept. As with all toys, they come and go. Why I think I could find so many with very low miles, mint condition.
> ...



Thats because they were destroyed. Many are sitting in junk heaps being parted out. Irresponsible owners are those who drove the car for what it was not designed for. Road raced them over and over. Beat the snot out of them. Many got these things from previous owners who took decent care of them from new. They got em at a decent price not knowing this car well enough. It has 400HP and screams not a bad price I'll get one Mom and Dad will help me then it...... Screams into trees, guard rails, other cars, and into repair shops. Those who got these from new and are taking care of them are becoming a minority. 

If you take hours to sit here and go through the archives and read the horror stories of those who abused them, then go to neighboring forums and read those escapades, you'll have enough information and statistics to write a book. Not to say other "affordable" performance cars didn't get the same "workout" but were talking this car. Corvettes are cars most kids cannot afford and you don't see the abuse on them like this because they are still out of the price range of most along with the insurance. 

There are still decent GTOs out there but its a crap shoot finding it.


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## Kelly-05 (Feb 11, 2012)

> Thats because they were destroyed. Many are sitting in junk heaps being parted out.



Shouldn't be hard to spot that car right?

It's a common thing with any vehicle. Some are bought to build/race/abuse, some are bought as garage queens. Just gotta know how to shop. I had several lined up similar to the one I have. It became about distance/color/transmission. 

Love the car. If I could afford to buy another low mile one for the garage I would. This is my DD right now and I'm up over 8k miles 
Hell one just went through the bay with 200 miles on it


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## Kelly-05 (Feb 11, 2012)

Quick first page search on the bay:

SAP 8700 miles:
Pontiac : GTO 2-Door Coupe w/Sports Appearance Package in Pontiac | eBay Motors

9K miles:
Pontiac : GTO 6.0 6 Speed in Pontiac | eBay Motors

5,700 miles:
Pontiac : GTO Base Coupe 2-Door in Pontiac | eBay Motors

9K miles:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pont...4088091?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c67720a9b


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