# Which CAI?



## gtoster (Jul 13, 2007)

I know use the search! I did & read alot of bickering. Has anyone done any dyno tests on CAI's? Maybe if I spent another hr or two on the search I'd find my answer, but I did actually try that 1st.
Thanks, from the new guy


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## gtoster (Jul 13, 2007)

I ended up buying a Lengenfelter CAI after reading alot of posts, & no one putting their 2 cents worth in. Seems like I can feel a very slight improvement. I also bought a diablo sport predator programmer, should see that tomarrow. Hopefully it will make a bigger difference.


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## Russ2005 (Nov 24, 2005)

'ster. I also installed the Lingenfelter on my GTO back in the winter of 2005. I agree there is a slight difference and my average MPG went up by at least 0.5 also (unscientifically of course). Additionally, the filter pays for itself over the years because you can clean it instead of replacement. Do keep it clean at least a few times each year. The oiled filters collect dirt and dust (as they are designed to do), but that also clogs the air inrush. Remember your car is sucking warm air in the summer anyway which will negate some of the power. My beast always likes to run cleaner and crisper in the cold air of winter. I have not done any dyno testing so can not confirm nor deny any actual HP gain, but like you, it felt a little "zippier" when I installed it.


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## G.T.O (Dec 28, 2005)

I'll keep using my LPE CAI until I start seeing the high hp/quick ET guys throwing theirs away and going back to the factory CAI. :cool


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

anything with a bigger fliter than stock is going to be better than stock especially after adding more flow mods like LTs, better catback, cam, heads, etc. dyno numbers don't really tell much about one "C"AI over another with a similar filter as they just tell it flows better but doesn't answer the "C" part of the "C"AI. the way to really see what's it's doing you need to log IAT (intake air temps) under real world, street conditions. on a dyno the hood is open and a fan is blowing on the engine bay. that's not what happens off the dyno. the best test is to.
1. know what the ambient temp is
2. heat soak the motor
3. note the starting IAT temp
4. get moving and note how fast the IAT temp drops
5. see how close to ambient the IAT gets in how long of time​
ideally for racing situations on the street or track you'd like to get to ambient almost immediately. that's not going to happen but you can get there in just a few seconds. unfortunately none of the commercial "C"AIs do that. the heat shielding isn't any better than the stocker, just the filter is. they all pull air from the same places, a little by the headlight, in thru the couple of holes in the fender, etc. they'll get to maybe 15*-20* over ambient after several minutes. the dyno number now doesn't match what you're getting on the street due to pulled timing and less dense air. if you're interested you can read my quest here, see the logs of results here or just pick the prettiest one that "everybody" says gives the best seat of the pants feel.


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## DUALGOATS (Jul 23, 2007)

jeeze man.

i know you "know you ****...but you rain on everyones parade....

the hardcore is simple and effective..and a sheiled box with a fast acting iat with a big filter will work as well....

svede is a CAI fanatic....his theories are the only ones....i datalogged my MPD CAI with my fast acting sensor and the second hole in the bottom...and i get within 7 degree of ambient in less than 3 seconds.....

i spin enough in first.

now chew on [email protected]


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## silgoat05 (Jul 1, 2006)

how about aem brut force?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

DUALGOATS said:


> jeeze man.
> 
> i know you "know you ****...but you rain on everyone*'*s parade....
> 
> ...


duh, like an intake matters spraying...  i don't think... no, i know that others with their mostly stock GTOs aren't going to get the same results. didn't theorize it. i tested it. where'd you get the fast acting sensor. the one i found or the one Vector copied?


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## vfrinterceptor (Jun 23, 2007)

i bought the volant i like it sounds good looks good and i felt a decent difference


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## u-got-gto (May 19, 2007)

silgoat05 said:


> how about aem brut force?


I installed athe AEM Brute Force.... Easy install... looks good... felt a difference... GTO sounds like a beast!


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## iwant2buyaGTO (Dec 17, 2009)

Love my new AEM Brute Force AEM-21-8016DP


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

The Weapon-R intake is mad tight yo. Weapon-R Only $325!


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

Poncho Dan said:


> The Weapon-R intake is mad tight yo. Weapon-R Only $325!


Just think.....somewhere out there, someone actually bought one!


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

06gtoin216 said:


> Just think.....somewhere out there, someone actually bought one!


Dude... don't get me started. :lol:

My dad's GF/fiance's kid that lives with them , at the age of 24, has this 94 Celica. He bought one of these things for it, then put the stickers all over, then threw in some HIDs and yellow fogs.







I'm waiting for the fart pipe.

It's such total garbage too, what you see in the picture is what they're all pretty much like from them. Pop-riveted aluminum with this weird sheetmetal turbonator crap inside. You would seriously be better off constructing your own CAI out of PVC pipe.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

What happened to the ole skool intake manifold to head gaskets with the fine wire mesh screening for increased bottom end torque?
I suppose with fuel injection, and them set up to mistify the fuel right on top of the intake valve (and now/soon DI) there's no need for them anymore.
But, anyone else remember those?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

You mean the wire mesh ring (that came factory with a few cars) that replaced the paper element filter "for track days"? I actually have one of those laying around for a '63 Vette.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> You mean the wire mesh ring (that came factory with a few cars) that replaced the paper element filter "for track days"? I actually have one of those laying around for a '63 Vette.


No, that's air cleaner, this was intake to head gaskets with the fine wire mesh. Totally aftermarket/race applications.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Rukee said:


> What happened to the ole skool intake manifold to head gaskets with the fine wire mesh screening for increased bottom end torque?
> I suppose with fuel injection, and them set up to mistify the fuel right on top of the intake valve (and now/soon DI) there's no need for them anymore.
> But, anyone else remember those?


I remember those Summit or Jegs used to sale them. I was going to buy some for my 350 when I was building it, don't laugh. They suppose to help atomize the fuel air mixture better.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Tur byew lance yo

It works, yes, but limits your top end flow. I think even Harley screwed around with that for a while...


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## CreditDept (Jul 23, 2010)

as much as i really want one i dnt think im gonna spend over 150 for it. i mait just go crazy and make my own. replicate an aem or smthing, for the fraction of the price. through a k&n filter and volla cai.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

CreditDept said:


> as much as i really want one *i dnt think im gonna spend over 150 for it*. i mait just go crazy and make my own. replicate an aem or smthing, for the fraction of the price. through a k&n filter and volla cai.


:lol:

You can't get much but gas for this car with $150...

Leave it stock and throw in a K&N. You'll save yourself some work and get the same results.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> L:eave it stock and throw in a K&N. You'll save yourself some work and get the same results.


A KNN drop in is more of a waste then the intake. The dropins are proven to gain less then 1 HP. So $40 + $15 for the cleaning kit = $55+ for nadda. Thats alot of stock repleacements if you ask me.

GMHP mag did a test of no filter, stock, and high flow KNN. Less then 1 HP from best to worst.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I know. But $150 on an intake won't get you much.and the butt dyno difference is probably going to be the same.


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

K&N claims about a 13 hp gain over stock. Reckon it's so? And, if it is, can you actually feel a difference? $300 worth of difference? I like the look of the AEM pictured; what's their gain claim? Does it create a different sound than stock?
I'm not knocking aftermarket intakes at all. Just don't know if it's worth the effort and expense.


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## CreditDept (Jul 23, 2010)

i know that the k&n doesn't make a difference. to me its kinda like knowing its clean cause i cleaned it ever 8k. its a personal thing. and yes if you really look im pretty used u can find a used cai, (its just a pipe) and no cai can compare to a true ram air intake, sure on a dyno u mait not see a difference but on a freeway it would help slightly. plus 300 bucks for 5 hp gain? not worth it unless ur running heads, and cams, just my opinion on the subject.


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## poof1887 (Sep 21, 2010)

Why hasn't anyone thrown their 2 cents in about the Vararam CAI? I have read a lot of good reviews about that CAI and its only $274 on marylandspeed. They also guarantee 17hp, not to mention the look pretty BA. That CAI seems to me (in my limited and humble opinoin) to be the best one on the marked, other than Svede's of course.


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## FIRELIFE25 (Aug 4, 2010)

i have not seen good enough gains from a otr cai...if you want to see some good results on intakes go the camro5 forum and look up jannetty intake testing the just did....you wont find one otr intake on there...all that were asked to test declined....they have ran two tests with around 15 diff intakes....the winner both times was the CAI inc intake yes thats the brand of intake....you can find that one on cold air inductions.com.....i know that it was on an ls3 camaro but the intake design is similar to are ls2....all the big named intakes were in the test...


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

FIRELIFE25 said:


> i have not seen good enough gains from a otr cai


Their very nature will not show results on a stationary dyno. They shine on the track/street when moving, not sitting still with the hood open and a barn fan blowing air at a constant speed at the front of the car.

Another reason why I chose *not* to tune my car on some silly set of rollers.


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## poof1887 (Sep 21, 2010)

Poncho Dan said:


> Their very nature will not show results on a stationary dyno. They shine on the track/street when moving, not sitting still with the hood open and a barn fan blowing air at a constant speed at the front of the car.
> 
> Another reason why I chose *not* to tune my car on some silly set of rollers.


:agree The only time a OTRCAI, or most CAIs in general are going to show you the horse power gains they advertise is at highter RPMs when the car is moving and they can suck in fresh air! I'm a big fan of doing pulls on the high way, so are all my friends, that is why I want the OTRCAI


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## FIRELIFE25 (Aug 4, 2010)

the test was done with the hood closed....any case its just some info that i found on the site....take it for what it worth


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Well I know a professional tuner that tunes the car on the street first then on the dyno. Said that he can get it close on the street but finishes it up on the dyno. That tells you something right there.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

FIRELIFE25 said:


> i have not seen good enough gains from a otr cai...if you want to see some good results on intakes go the camro5 forum and look up jannetty intake testing the just did....you wont find one otr intake on there...all that were asked to test declined....they have ran two tests with around 15 diff intakes....the winner both times was the CAI inc intake yes thats the brand of intake....you can find that one on cold air inductions.com.....i know that it was on an ls3 camaro but the intake design is similar to are ls2....all the big named intakes were in the test...


Well I know on our cars it does make a difference. Tests that mean squat to most gear heads are what they show at the strip in MPH and ETs. Heat soak is an issue with our cars and HP "gains", altho they can be had with intakes, are over shadowed by what HP you don't lose from heat soak by using the right one. Many of the fastest GTOs care about whatever tenth they can get and after trying the various intakes settled on an OTRCAI because they do work. Every car worth it's salt in Australia uses them as well. Joe (0-60N3) tried almost all of the significant intakes including another brand OTR intake and after switching ran a 10.2 on a NA all motor car. LS1melissa who was written up in GM HighTech Performance Magazine used to run with a CAI Inductions intake and did very well (in the 10s). The problem was she needed to run with the headlight out to get cool air in. She equaled the results with a OTRCAI and kept the car in street trim to do it. There are many examples but one of the best IMHO was done last year by Russ (GTO1_Ohio) and posted over on the other board. He was in a track day where one of the events was a 10 mile street run followed by 3 hot laps at the track. His results varied little and that's something that could not be done with the other products he tried.

There are many more examples by people that have actually tried different ones and know what they are doing. If someone races with flow numbers or on the dyno that's great but they'll get left at the light or tree in the real world.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

GM4life said:


> Well I know a professional tuner that tunes the car on the street first then on the dyno. Said that he can get it close on the street but finishes it up on the dyno. That tells you something right there.


Many times the difference between a "pro" tuner and a tuner is the pro charges money . Usually the way it's done (and the best way) is to tune on the dyno for WOT and then street tune. They also keep the car over night to do a cold start tune to make sure idle is right. You'll read a lot where people have idle and surge issues and are told that "it's the nature of the cam". It is more the nature of the tune.


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## poof1887 (Sep 21, 2010)

svede1212 said:


> You'll read a lot where people have idle and surge issues and are told that "it's the nature of the cam". It is more the nature of the tune.


This is very interesting, I have a .573 lift comp cam in my car, and she gives me a little shake at the idol. The idol is pretty steady, doesnt rev unnecessarrily or anything like that, but there is a definate shake in the car. I had the car tuned at a shop here, in the Chicago land area, that is pretty well reguarded for their abilities with muscle cars. I have always thought that the shake in my car was normal considering the cam, is that incorrect?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> Many times the difference between a "pro" tuner and a tuner is the pro charges money . Usually the way it's done (and the best way) is to tune on the dyno for WOT and then street tune. They also keep the car over night to do a cold start tune to make sure idle is right. You'll read a lot where people have idle and surge issues and are told that "it's the nature of the cam". It is more the nature of the tune.


This guy has been doing this for many years, so I _think_ he knows what he is doing. He might be around your age Jerry


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

poof1887 said:


> This is very interesting, I have a .573 lift comp cam in my car, and she gives me a little shake at the idol. The idol is pretty steady, doesnt rev unnecessarrily or anything like that, but there is a definate shake in the car. I had the car tuned at a shop here, in the Chicago land area, that is pretty well reguarded for their abilities with muscle cars. I have always thought that the shake in my car was normal considering the cam, is that incorrect?


Duration and LSA has alot to do with how the engine runs at idle. The tighter the LSA it will idle with a chop not a surge. Like chugda-chugda-chugda but smooth. If the idle and tune not right it will run like crap with a surge(un-steady idle). The car should bounce back no matter what you are doing, if it wants to shut off after you come down from speed not cool. Your bleading off some of the intake charge and taking in some exhaust gas on larger cams.

If you want to see and hear an example of a surging engine check out those Youtube videos where they say after market so and so cam on stock tuning.

My car rocks at idle but idle smooth, that just the way it runs, with that cam. Even the stock cam did it.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> Well I know on our cars it does make a difference. Tests that mean squat to most gear heads are what they show at the strip in MPH and ETs. Heat soak is an issue with our cars and HP "gains", altho they can be had with intakes, are over shadowed by what HP you don't lose from heat soak by using the right one. Many of the fastest GTOs care about whatever tenth they can get and after trying the various intakes settled on an OTRCAI because they do work. Every car worth it's salt in Australia uses them as well. Joe (0-60N3) tried almost all of the significant intakes including another brand OTR intake and after switching ran a 10.2 on a NA all motor car. LS1melissa who was written up in GM HighTech Performance Magazine used to run with a CAI Inductions intake and did very well (in the 10s). The problem was she needed to run with the headlight out to get cool air in. She equaled the results with a OTRCAI and kept the car in street trim to do it. There are many examples but one of the best IMHO was done last year by Russ (GTO1_Ohio) and posted over on the other board. He was in a track day where one of the events was a 10 mile street run followed by 3 hot laps at the track. His results varied little and that's something that could not be done with the other products he tried.
> 
> There are many more examples by people that have actually tried different ones and know what they are doing. If someone races with flow numbers or on the dyno that's great but they'll get left at the light or tree in the real world.


Sounds like SPAM or a sales pitch to me

I can vouch for Svede he tested more intakes than anyone I know with the data to prove it. Aussies do beleave in OTRCAI, I've even seen FMIC OTRCAI's over there


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## poof1887 (Sep 21, 2010)

GM4life said:


> Duration and LSA has alot to do with how the engine runs at idle. The tighter the LSA it will idle with a chop not a surge. Like chugda-chugda-chugda but smooth. If the idle and tune not right it will run like crap with a surge(un-steady idle) like Svede said. The car should bounce back no matter what you are doing, if it wants to shut off after you come down from speed not cool. Your bleading off some of the intake charge and taking in some exhaust gas on larger cams.
> 
> If you want to see and hear an example of a surging engine check out those Youtube videos where they say after market so and so cam on stock tuning.
> 
> My car rocks at idle but idle smooth, that just the way it runs, with that cam. Even the stock cam did it.


Mine definately does not surge or have a rough idol. She runs steady at idol, the sound is always consistant and she makes a nice chugda-chugda, so it sounds like she is good.
arty:


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Shake is cool and normal. My car even shook at idle when stock . Surge is when you're traveling along at a low RPM and the car bucks like a student driver running a manual transmission for the first time.


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## bolo1968 (Apr 24, 2009)

Yea, I lucked out and got my K & N for free, ordered it off Ebay, didn't show up till 2 months later, by then had gotten a credit. Since then, I've covered the tube with an welders sleeve, fits the lenth of the tube perfectly, heat resistant up to like 3000 degrees, looks cool too, black with a red horse and flame emblem on it, cost like $25 shipped. sealed off the filter completely (AEM), cuz the K & N was cloggin the MAF. Good as it gets for what it is and I think it makes a difference with my other mods. Plan is the Svede in the future.


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## FIRELIFE25 (Aug 4, 2010)

GM4life said:


> Sounds like SPAM or a sales pitch to me
> 
> I can vouch for Svede he tested more intakes than anyone I know with the data to prove it. Aussies do beleave in OTRCAI, I've even seen FMIC OTRCAI's over there


Its not spam or a sales pitch.......just giving some info to guys on here ....I could care less what intake people want to run...its their money...not many people on here volunteer info on here other then saying use the search button BS....so if I find useful info for our cars I'm going to share it and like I said you can take it for what its worth:cheers


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

FIRELIFE25 said:


> Its not spam or a sales pitch.......just giving some info to guys on here ....I could care less what intake people want to run...its their money...not many people on here volunteer info on here other then saying use the search button BS....so if I find useful info for our cars I'm going to share it and like I said you can take it for what its worth:cheers


What? That post is more out of place than a prostitute in church.


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## EN3DVED (Oct 14, 2010)

Alot of people don't like to cut their cars or mod to extremely but I built a one off one for real cheap as well. I ended up getting most of my pipping from Spectre. 4" aluminum tubing, made a 90 off the TB, ran straight pipe to where the filter was and a 60 degree bend down through the metal to the wheel well. Just took a hole saw and cut out the area. I loose a little of velocity due to the size and length of the pipes, but the volume it can draw from is much larger and cooler. My engine runs extremely hot and being completely outside the engine compartment made a big difference. I have the hole wheel well, and removed one fog light to allow for ram air to hit the filter at speed. All in all 130 - 150 Dollars, and gained about 30 wheel HP. Just another approach.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

EN3DVED said:


> Alot of people don't like to cut their cars or mod to extremely but I built a one off one for real cheap as well. I ended up getting most of my pipping from Spectre. 4" aluminum tubing, made a 90 off the TB, ran straight pipe to where the filter was and a 60 degree bend down through the metal to the wheel well. Just took a hole saw and cut out the area. I loose a little of velocity due to the size and length of the pipes, but the volume it can draw from is much larger and cooler. My engine runs extremely hot and being completely outside the engine compartment made a big difference. I have the hole wheel well, and removed one fog light to allow for ram air to hit the filter at speed. All in all 130 - 150 Dollars, and gained about 30 wheel HP. Just another approach.


Well first off you did hack up your car and arguably more. Second, I've done an intake like that that was similar (used plastic instead of heat absorbing aluminum) and it's better than the other "normal'' types but there's no way you're getting 30 HP from it. Nothing wrong with your approach and it's been well documented and it's OK and cheap but not the best.


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## SwiftGoat (Feb 11, 2011)

Svede, where did you get that OTRCAI? It looks awesome and I've been hunting for it online to no avail.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

I believe that one is Svede's own design and manufacture...
Bill


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## SwiftGoat (Feb 11, 2011)

That is unfortunate. That was really the only OTR that I liked the looks of. I guess I'm between the AEM and Lingenfelter CAI then...


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

contact him or do a search on his name...he has a how to and he used to (IIRC) make them for sale...
Bill


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

stickied at the top of this section...
http://www.gtoforum.com/f38/how-diy-otrcai-warning-56k-18805/
Bill


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

here they are...

SvedeSpeed OTRCAI - $399.00 : West Coast Speed, Custom Automotive Accessories

Bill


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Mine (hand made) did not come with the thermistor mod, though Jerry provided instructions for it. IMO, the mod isn't 100% necessary (unless you run MAFless), since I've logged 30*+ IAT drops when going to WOT. Maybe the mod shows the change quicker, I haven't bothered to look into it.


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## SwiftGoat (Feb 11, 2011)

Great stuff. Thanks guys!


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## Fama Goat (Feb 13, 2011)

So for CAI's, ive been hearing a lot of good things about the Vararam and Svede but im sure its a long process to obtain one. Mechanically, my goat is stock other than a custom exhaust. Are there any objections to a K&N typhoon or AEM Brute Force? I know K&N needs oiling and AEM doesn't, and K&N claims an X amount of HP (which i think is BS) thats about it. I know it comes down to personal preference probably between these two but are there serious PROS or CONS to either of these? I do plan to go ported intake mani and TB afterwords for starters, given the advice im getting. Suggestions are appreciated.


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## 06BLACKGTO64 (Oct 30, 2010)

This is just my opinion with no hard proof..but if you have read up on intake systems alot of guys have pointed out the obvious that the biggest difference between the OTRCAI (Vararam, Svede) and the others is the 90 degree turn at the throttle body, and the distance the air has to travel through the intake. I know the intake i am going with is the Vararam simply because i have seen good reveiws and mine being an 06 the scoops would seem to provide great airflow.so it just comes down to if you want to spend the difference...so id say buy an OTRCAI. Maryland speed has the vararam btw


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Really it comes down to the stock airbox location being a crap area for pulling cold air. It's behind the plane of the radiator and sits behind the headlight. Not a lot of open space for fresh air to get at...


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## SwiftGoat (Feb 11, 2011)

Do any of you guys still have your OEM intake system? I'm thinking about trying some science experiments and I don't have the stock setup since mine came with the Volant... The forum won't let me post in the buy/sell portion yet since I'm so new.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

SwiftGoat said:


> Do any of you guys still have your OEM intake system? I'm thinking about trying some science experiments and I don't have the stock setup since mine came with the Volant... The forum won't let me post in the buy/sell portion yet since I'm so new.


I have a science experiment you can try with just your Volant. Go to the track and make a couple of runs. Note your trap speeds. Next take that top that says Volant off and repeat the runs. You'll see a 2-3 MPH increase in trap speeds. The "box" chokes your intake.


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## SwiftGoat (Feb 11, 2011)

svede1212 said:


> I have a science experiment you can try with just your Volant. Go to the track and make a couple of runs. Note your trap speeds. Next take that top that says Volant off and repeat the runs. You'll see a 2-3 MPH increase in trap speeds. The "box" chokes your intake.


That's a good call Svede. I will definitely do that in the short term. I would really like to design my own using a few OEM parts though that would sit in the same area. I don't really like any of that type on the market, and the OTR, while a very good design, isn't really my style.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

SwiftGoat said:


> That's a good call Svede. I will definitely do that in the short term. I would really like to design my own using a few OEM parts though that would sit in the same area. I don't really like any of that type on the market, and the OTR, while a very good design, isn't really my style.


That's OK as not everyone has the same goals. Some guys buy parts for their looks and that's fine if that's what they want. I've written a lot about evaluating CAIs and I've tested a bunch of them but I work on the performance end. Anyways the Cliff Notes:

A CAI delivers air as cool as possible and with as little pressure drop as possible. Both are readily measurable with logging software. 

IATs (Intake Air Temps) are best checked by doing some normal driving and then stop for a minute or so to simulate a drag race or traffic light. Temps will rise. Take off rapidly and log IATs and note now long it takes to get from the high to a reasonable low temp and compare to ambient temperatures. In a drag race you have less than 12-14 seconds and then you're at the end of the strip so a lower starting point and quicker cool down are ideal. The source of air and the speed of the IAT sensor are the important variables for that with an intake.

To measure restriction, turn on the car without starting it and log MAPs (Manifold Absolute Pressure) for that day and location. Depending on day and altitude they will be 96ish to 103 kPa. Start the car and start driving and run _full throttle_ in third gear (stick) to red line. You'd like the kPa to be the same as whatever your stopped engine ambient kPa was but you'll get some drop and anything less than a 3 kPa drop is good. The part to take note of is 5,500 rpm to redline where the engine is breathing the hardest and you're usually making peak power. Longer lengths of piping, bends or filter restrictions will give a larger drop (in the 3-6 kPa range typical for poorer intakes) and result in less air getting into the engine and thus less power.

From making several styles as you would like to do I found that the shortest, straightest air path that came from in front of the engine tested the best.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Svede,

...don't you think then that any of our new GTOs would benefit from a OTRCAI like your design since it definitely the shortest distance and straight or is the benefits on a mostly stock car not enough to justify the change to it?...

I realize that us mostly stock guys can be a disappointment to others of you who like to upgrade and update and tune yours but I never get to the track just like to do some of the things that seemingly and logically might benefit my ride...

Bill


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

There is a performance gain especially over stock in both flow and minimizing heat soak


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

thank you...very good to know...
Bill


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## 06RA6 (May 15, 2010)

My 06 GTO is in the shop getting a Duspeed OTR CAI installed along with a TVS1900. It looks good and I hope to get good hp gains from it but I won't really be able to tell since the scharger is being installed at the same time. Here is a thread about it. He claimed to of picked up 30 HP on his FI GTO.

I know it is for FI folks but I hear there is one for NA guys too. Yeah it is expensive but it looks the best I have see yet.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

06RA6 said:


> My 06 GTO is in the shop getting a Duspeed OTR CAI installed along with a TVS1900. It looks good and I hope to get good hp gains from it but I won't really be able to tell since the scharger is being installed at the same time. Here is a thread about it. He claimed to of picked up 30 HP on his FI GTO.
> 
> I know it is for FI folks but I hear there is one for NA guys too. Yeah it is expensive but it looks the best I have see yet.


I've seen that one. At ~$800 I hope it works well for you. I'm curious what size filter or opening is on it. I've noticed in my research that a lot of the Aussie units have small ones. It looks to be roughly 2" to 3" x 18"


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## 06RA6 (May 15, 2010)

svede1212 said:


> I've seen that one. At ~$800 I hope it works well for you. I'm curious what size filter or opening is on it. I've noticed in my research that a lot of the Aussie units have small ones. It looks to be roughly 2" to 3" x 18"


It may retail for more and cost quite a bit in shipping but I actually paid $500 and $75 for the LS7(??) MAF sensor (installed). 

I do not recall the size of the filter but I will find out in a couple days when I go there to have it dyno tuned. 

I think you have a great product as well and you may recall I was on your waiting list for a couple of months when I was NA but I needed something quick to go with my blower.

Brian


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

06RA6 said:


> It may retail for more and cost quite a bit in shipping but I actually paid $500 and $75 for the LS7(??) MAF sensor (installed).
> 
> I do not recall the size of the filter but I will find out in a couple days when I go there to have it dyno tuned.
> 
> ...


Ya, I'm curious on what that one is. It should work well for you


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

OTR is the only way to go, with any vehicle. I'm fully convinced that you need to draw your intake charge from an area ahead of the plane of the radiator, if you're not cutting a hole in your hood/using cowl or shaker induction. If you notice, a select few of the newest cars have a factory airbox that has a duct that mounts to the top of the upper radiator support.


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## LEDFOOT (Jan 8, 2011)

I have a K&N cold air intake on mine and I like it


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

I dont think the over the radiator cold air intake is the cause for the extra horsepower, I think its the movement of the mass air sensor in front and or closer to the throttle body. I saw some results posted and did not see much of an inprovement in horsepower. The test was conducted with no air cleaner mass air sensor in front of throttle body, Elbow with a filter which did not have the mass air sensor infront of the throttle body, blackwing with the mass air sensor in front of the throttle body, and the Vararam set up and the difference in CFM's was 292, 283, 286,287, The blackwing and Vararam were 5 and 6 CFM,s less than no air filter at all. I havent seen any results for the Svede set up but would be interested in seeing them post soon-----Danfigg


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

danfigg said:


> I dont think the over the radiator cold air intake is the cause for the extra horsepower, I think its the movement of the mass air sensor in front and or closer to the throttle body. I saw some results posted and did not see much of an inprovement in horsepower. The test was conducted with no air cleaner mass air sensor in front of throttle body, Elbow with a filter which did not have the mass air sensor infront of the throttle body, blackwing with the mass air sensor in front of the throttle body, and the Vararam set up and the difference in CFM's was 292, 283, 286,287, The blackwing and Vararam were 5 and 6 CFM,s less than no air filter at all. I havent seen any results for the Svede set up but would be interested in seeing them post soon-----Danfigg


HP is interesting and somewhat pertinent but how fast the car runs is what's most important to most people. Then you have to factor the air temp in with the CFM. As I've posted numerous times a flow comparison can easily be done by anyone with logging software by logging high RPM MAPs to see manifold pressure drops. Several serious and credible racers have logged numerous track data of DA, traps and ETs and the OTRs have always run faster on the same car compared to others. 

I agree the MAF is an issue for some too. Stock, the LS2 is running a 85mm MAF in front of whatever TB from 90mm to 102mm so it becomes the bottleneck. That test you posted shows to me what I've seen in that the elbow is a restriction not the MAF location. In the end any attempt to do a static test means squat if someone runs faster.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

Well Svede, I think your product is the best looking by far. Maybe one day I will convince my self to step up to a SVEDE. I did not give all the detail on that testing that was posted but they did mention for every 1 CFM there is a certain amount of horse power that is gained. ----Danfigg


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## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

^^Do it! You won't regret it.

(woot. 100 posts)


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