# New GTO for $12,900 out-the-door



## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

Just kidding. But why has this site turned into a place where people can come in and brag about how cheap they got the GTO for. Remember when people used to boast about how expensive their car was? Times have changed I guess.

My question is, how many other people are pissed off at how cheap other members are getting these cars for? I mean it's killing the resale value, I'm sure. Not to mention it adds fuel to the fire, for any non-GTO owners (GTO haters), who know about this dealing. Now they have reason to say it's a "beefed up" Cavalier.

I love this car, and I don't mean to sound pompous when I say this, but it really bothers me that there are so many people driving around in this car now, that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it. Especially since I pay $503/month for mine (and that was a good deal at the time I purchased it).


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Doesn't bother me. I didn't buy this car as an investment, I bought it for it's excellent grins-to-bucks ratio. I feel the ~$28k I spent (with aftermarket wheels etc) to be a fair price for a fun car.

From the many gas pump and parking lot conversations I've had with other car people, the GTO is in no danger of losing street cred. People seem to love the car and admire it for what it is...a modern muscle car.

If it were a good return on my money I wanted, I'd buy stocks. If I was looking for a slow depreciation, I sure as _hell _ wouldn't buy a domestic car, least of all a _Pontiac_.

Besides...I put ~40k miles per year on my cars. The residual is wrung out of it by the time I'm ready to get another ride anyway.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

It will all probably end in a few days. 

It is wrong the way GM did it. Had I waited three days I would have saved $3000, I am a little upset, but trying to get back half. The rebates slaughtered the resale.

Combined with the crappy customer service I got on my wife's Aurora, I am going to lease in the future and see what the residual is. Why lay out the money only to get insulted when it comes time to trade in/up? 

Why be stuck with payments and a lemon. My Aurora has some paint issues, if I leased the car I would not care. Forget about the random stalling and dealers (and the 800 customer disservice representativev( refusal to look up the TSB i cited them that almost got my family killed on a few occasions.

If not for GMACs keeping the residual up, I would not have bought a GTO, but for 285 a month to beat on one of their cars I couldnt resist.

I wonder how all these rebates will affect the demand for 05s.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

My hat is off to those who purchased the 04 with the great deals and incentives being offered. The current "low" resale values of the 04's are only temporary and were fueled by the 04 GTO's late production schedule.

My opinion is the value of the 04's will possible increase as the car's popularity increases. Only 12,000 05's will produced for the year and production will stop in May, when those are gone the GTO fever will be on the rise. The 05's will not see the great offers that were available on the 04's.

Check your current NADA value today and check it again in 3 months.

Just mt 2 cents,


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## SnoDrgn (Dec 21, 2004)

djdub said:


> I love this car, and I don't mean to sound pompous when I say this, but it really bothers me that there are so many people driving around in this car now, that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it. Especially since I pay $503/month for mine (and that was a good deal at the time I purchased it).


Glad to know I'm not worthy


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## EdwardC (Oct 8, 2004)

Looking at what's happening, I may wait till next November or December for an '05 model. I have the patience to wait.


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## EdwardC (Oct 8, 2004)

djdub said:


> I love this car, and I don't mean to sound pompous when I say this, but it really bothers me that there are so many people driving around in this car now, that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it. Especially since I pay $503/month for mine (and that was a good deal at the time I purchased it).


Your an Eagles fan so I think that you would be used to disappointment by now.


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

EdwardC said:


> Your an Eagles fan so I think that you would be used to disappointment by now.


I hardly call 3, no wait 4 NFC East Championships a dissappointment. So, they never get past the NFC championship, at least they get there, remember there are 10 teams in each conference that don't even make the playoffs. I also hardly call 13-1 a dissappointment.


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

SnoDrgn said:


> Glad to know I'm not worthy


Like I said, "not to sound pompous". Obviously, you missed my tone. Your attitude only adds to my dislike of those driving the car out the door for peanuts.
     

If you would think about it from my point of view... I work my ass of to be able to afford my 2 car payments and somebody sneaks in and snatches one up for 1/2 the monthly payment. All because they wait til the end of the model year and because they have a credit card charging problem earning them another $5000 off the car.

SnoDrgn, I'm sure this doesn't pertain to you, but at this price how many people do you think will be driving around in this car, that have no college education, or work at Wal-Mart, or are 17 and their parents bought them the car because it was a steal. You know those are the first people to drive around in the car acting like hot sh*t. 

It's not adding to the cars appeal, it's detracting from it. If the new C6s suddenly dropped to $28k, don't you think even the new vettes would lose their appeal fast?

Again, I absolutley love this car, but I don't plan on driving it for the next 4 years, I never drive cars that long. So in 2 years I'm gonna get raped on a trade or if I try to sell it, all because GM has no clue how to advertise properly.


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

djdub said:


> Like I said, "not to sound pompous". Obviously, you missed my tone. Your attitude only adds to my dislike of those driving the car out the door for peanuts.
> 
> 
> If you would think about it from my point of view... I work my ass of to be able to afford my 2 car payments and somebody sneaks in and snatches one up for 1/2 the monthly payment. All because they wait til the end of the model year and because they have a credit card charging problem earning them another $5000 off the car.
> ...


Personally, I take offense to this. It's unfair to assume that just because we got a good deal on a car, and posted about it to share our excitement and allow others to receive such a deal, that we're some spoiled 17yr old that could never afford the car.

I made such a post, and I don't feel bad about it at all...and I shouldn't have to. Instead of welcoming us to the circle of GTO owners, you want to scold us for being fiscally responsible. Just so you can hate me with full knowledge of who I am and not base your opinion on some ridiculous assumptions you made on a whim...

I am 26...I have worked for everything I have since I was 12
I have a college degree (BSBA)
I served in the Air Force for 2 years and the Marine Corps for 6 years
I own a house, a truck, and the GTO
I also "work my A$$ off" to earn what I have
I have never been handed anything
I am not now, nor have I ever been an employee of the Walmart Corporation
I don't drive around acting like hot sh!t
This is not the first sports car I owned, I had a C5 Corvette prior to the GTO.

So, next time you want to go making accusations based on presumption, get your facts straight and know who you are addressing.

I'm sorry if you feel slighted for not having gotten a better deal, but it is not our fault. If you want to blame someone, look to GM for that.

Oh, and Happy Holidays!


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## EdwardC (Oct 8, 2004)

I agree with you Snafu,

One more thing to add is that one can succomb to the "new car bug" very easily and get hosed at the dealer before any incentives are offered. It takes a measure of patience and self control to wait for the good deal before buying. Good timing can be rewarded. Regardless if one buys a GTO in the spring or in December, it is still the same GTO. The one bought in the spring costs more and probably has a number of miles on the odometer by now but being the first on the block to own one has its price.


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## Vader953 (Nov 21, 2004)

i love it i love it


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

I think GM is getting a lot of bad blood for the way they are handling this.

I called the CEOs office today to ask why nobody told me I would get $3000 if I wated 72hours to pick up a toy I did not need, and do not need.

I got the car for 23,400 which is a great price until you see what people got it for a week later. I am pissed about the $3000, I also figured I better lease (smartbuy here in NY) because these incentives will have to affect the resale in a few years.

The people that bought the car when it came out and paid sticker, above sticker, or close to sticker based on representations made by GMs representatives (yes sales people are representatives of the company) only to find out the residual is dropping faster than anything Newton ever dreamed of have a right to angry, very angry at GM.

Hey, you made you bed now lay in it is not an acceptable response from GM. Who will get the last word?

I will when three years are up and GM wants me to get another car from them. My initial question will be where is the $3000 I would have had if I waited 72 hours? Oh, you want how much for me to keep the car? For 10,000 I would probably buy it assuming it is not a lemon, for 18600 I will buy a Civic, at least I have a pretty good idea what it will be worth in three years.

GM screwed the very people they need most, the enthusiast! I am the person people come to for car advice. Hey check out how the residual on my car dropped. yeah that will sell cars.

in the meantime lets keep posting the deals, the good is it may prevent someone from enriching a dealer unnecessarily.


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

Snafu said:


> Personally, I take offense to this. It's unfair to assume that just because we got a good deal on a car, and posted about it to share our excitement and allow others to receive such a deal, that we're some spoiled 17yr old that could never afford the car.
> 
> I made such a post, and I don't feel bad about it at all...and I shouldn't have to. Instead of welcoming us to the circle of GTO owners, you want to scold us for being fiscally responsible. Just so you can hate me with full knowledge of who I am and not base your opinion on some ridiculous assumptions you made on a whim...
> 
> ...



I think you are completely missing the point here. Your defensive tone is unecessary if what I said doesn't pertain to you. I didn't say it pertained to everyone that got these deals. Remember, though, this site is a small sample of the overall population of GTO buyers/owners. With these deals that are being "handed" to people, I am merely stating that this is the direction in which this car is headed. If this happens, don't expect to see the GTO's around in 2007.

I don't feel "slighted" and I am not stating facts, only opinions. And don't try to say that you are fiscally responsible for getting a great deal on the car, you are lucky, plain and simple. It is shear luck that GM would offer these kinds of incentives. Don't act like you waited for this to happen before buying the car. Nobody could foresee that GM would basically "give away" a car that only 8 months ago was being sold above MSRP.

Oh yeah... well Happy Holidays to you, too.


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## skibum100_777 (Dec 21, 2004)

hello all.

i just took home my gto on thursday. i'm 30 years old and i don't work very hard (actually, i do. i'm just saying that for comic effect). after all the incentives, i took a 4 year smartbuy, 15,000 mi/yr, $0 down, $250/month. 

heck yes, i got lucky with this deal. i originally went in to get a g6, but i don't think anyone can blame me for taking the deal on the gto.

for anyone that "might" be an eagles fan  - 
i'm from syracuse, ny. from my perspective, philly folk might seem a tad hard to please. i do recall that many philly fans were actually upset when the eagles took donovan mcnabb over ricky williams. i bet those same fans aren't too displeased now. 

anyway, i'm EXTREMELY pleased with the gto, and with the deal i received. i hope i'm not stepping on anyone's toes.


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## Don (Sep 20, 2004)

It is not just GM that screws people on specialty cars. Ford did it with the SVT Focus as well as the Gen III SHO Tarus. I know, I had one of each.  
I think one should get the best deal you can but be prepared to find out that someone else got a better deal the next day. This is how the free market works.


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

djdub said:


> I think you are completely missing the point here. Your defensive tone is unecessary if what I said doesn't pertain to you. I didn't say it pertained to everyone that got these deals. Remember, though, this site is a small sample of the overall population of GTO buyers/owners. With these deals that are being "handed" to people, I am merely stating that this is the direction in which this car is headed. If this happens, don't expect to see the GTO's around in 2007.
> 
> I don't feel "slighted" and I am not stating facts, only opinions. And don't try to say that you are fiscally responsible for getting a great deal on the car, you are lucky, plain and simple. It is shear luck that GM would offer these kinds of incentives. Don't act like you waited for this to happen before buying the car. Nobody could foresee that GM would basically "give away" a car that only 8 months ago was being sold above MSRP.
> 
> Oh yeah... well Happy Holidays to you, too.


Seeing as you made a generalization, it pertained to me...or at least that's how I took it. I understand this is a small sample as I am a member of several other GTO forums (which you may already realize...I recognized you from another)...but you need to see the same thing...not *everybody * is getting great deals there are still many paying much higher than others and closer to MSRP (or invoice at least)...in total there hasn't been that many posts about this and as you said yourself, it is a small sample size.

I honestly don't think this will effect the GTO's value as much as some speculate (or fear). It seems to be more indicative of GM cleaning up the mess they made with a lack of advertising and sub-par brand association and iconic reference. Will value drop? Yes, after all, a car is a depreciating asset. Will some or all of us lose our a$$es on it? Time will tell.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't exactly handed the deal...I researched the car for months, I spent abuot 3 weeks contacting and driving to many dealerships and speaking (online) to other owners and the deals they negotiated. From that I surmised what I might be able to get the car for...not in my wildest hopes did I think I would get the deal that I did. I already knew how dealerships work and how to haggle, what I did learn about was the dealer certificates (not that they exist, but what programs GM was offering the dealerships), and I did get a "heads up" about upcoming promotions and was urged from a few who could not reveal their sources to wait until a certain date, as better promotions would probably come along (but I had no clue what these would be and was on the fence for quite some time). And that is what is great about these forums...you can become a well-educated consumer with a little time and effort. For those who walked into this type of deal a$$-first, you are truly blessed.

I was not trying to infer that my fiscal responsibility had anything to do with my deal, rather it was my persistence that produced results. My comment about financial responsibility was in reference to your assertion that all of us getting good deals were zit-faced, hand-fed, spoiled Mama's boys and couldn't balance a checking account let alone by some stroke of genious actually be established in life, even at a young(er) age.

Do I think I'm lucky? Hell yes! Am I sorry for being lucky? Hell no.

Oh, and I was serious, not sarcastic...have a nice Holiday.


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## Trace (Dec 15, 2004)

Hey folks, you know as well as I do that a lot of people are simply lying on these forums about what they paid. Gee, uh, I paid, uh, $18k out the door & they threw in a plasma tv as a sweetner...


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

Snafu said:


> Seeing as you made a generalization, it pertained to me...or at least that's how I took it. I understand this is a small sample as I am a member of several other GTO forums (which you may already realize...I recognized you from another)...but you need to see the same thing...not *everybody * is getting great deals there are still many paying much higher than others and closer to MSRP (or invoice at least)...in total there hasn't been that many posts about this and as you said yourself, it is a small sample size.
> 
> I honestly don't think this will effect the GTO's value as much as some speculate (or fear). It seems to be more indicative of GM cleaning up the mess they made with a lack of advertising and sub-par brand association and iconic reference. Will value drop? Yes, after all, a car is a depreciating asset. Will some or all of us lose our a$$es on it? Time will tell.
> 
> ...



I, too, got $1500 in dealer certificates as well as the $3500 rebate. (I needed these because I had $7k in negative equity from the car I traded in). Without my neg eq, the sale price was still $29k a TTL. But getting a reduced price plus rebates, plus dealer certificates, plus up to $5k in GM card earnings is assinine. That's what I'm talking about, when I say "giving" these cars away.

What other car company does this, not Honda, not Toyota and that is why you can buy a Camry for $20k and sell after 4 years and get $17k.

The fact of the matter is this, GM messed up good with advertising. Now, they are slowly but surely furthering the demise of the GTO yet again.


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## catchmeifucan (Sep 12, 2004)

Where in the heck is this extra GM card rebate coming from? They have sent me offers for an extra $500 or $1,000 but never over that.

I think all of this deal talk is just plain confusing. We have rebates, coupons, GM card earnings, bonus earnings, supplier discount, employee discount. 

I sure can't keep track of it all.


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## Old Coot (Oct 10, 2004)

I just received a notice from GM Card that they would give $2000 for any car or truck plus an extra $3000 for a 2004 GTO, Chevrolet SSR, and Cadillac STS. Or $5000 towards a 2004 GTO plus factory rebate.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I have got to get me one of them there GM cards...


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

Trace said:


> Hey folks, you know as well as I do that a lot of people are simply lying on these forums about what they paid. Gee, uh, I paid, uh, $18k out the door & they threw in a plasma tv as a sweetner...


Maybe some are, but I'm not. I even referred a few others (over at ls1gto.com) and they were made the same offer (before gmcard and military discount).

If you don't want to believe me fine. I don't really care. I got the deal and I'm happy.

If you'd like to know which dealership it is PM me...I'm not sure if it's against the rules to post it. They had 9 or 10 left on the lot but almost all were auto's...this included a barbados blue and a cosmos purple.


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## golfshaftguys (Sep 9, 2004)

Guys everybody is a little on the edge here don't you think? How about this deal, $0 for a new gto. Because I am waiting for the 2005. But if you guys really dont think there will be similar incentives on the 2005 I think your fooling yourself. The fact that only 12000 are being built, won't make that much of a difference. The reason is this. There is a limited audience for the GTO. Sure there are 1000 of us on this website, that love it, I think it is a great car and when the rebates are offered on the 2005 I will buy one until then I can wait. The risk I run in waiting is may not be able to get the blue with blue M6, or Black with Red M6, or Red with Red M6, or the Yellow with M6, get the point! I may not get my first choice of color but I like almost all them so am I really risking not getting the one I want? If I dont get the deal I want I can wait them out, but I am sure by this time next year there will be a dealer with a 2005 GTO sitting on his lot, nearing the end of a slow month, on a rainy day and I will get the deal I want. Maybe not 5500 rebate but you can bet it will be 3000 when the 2006's are there!

I think the audience is limited on the GTO for this reason. The people who most want them cant afford either the car or the insurance, let's all face it the young guys are drooling. A lot of guys who can afford it want something that looks more like a sports car or something that says Merceded or BMW on the side etc. If I didn't need the back seat for my kids, I would go for a vette. So let's see, I don't need something that looks really sporty, just a cool tough look, must have a back seat, nice interior is must, I want to go fast, don't want to look like ricky racer, and oh yeah I can afford to spend 50K or less, looks like a GTO for me! Since there is a some want limited target audience for the GTO and a lot of you guys already have one, I dont think 12000 of them are going to fly off of the dealers lots. We are not talkin a production of 1000 or less, 547 for the GNX and I managed to get one of those, so why can't we all just enjoy our cars and be happy. Who cares what the guy next to you paid, just wait next time and you will get a better deal. 

One last thing that doesn't belong on this site but hey I didn't bring it up. How bout them steelers? Eagle fan you remember November 7th don't you!


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## jontyrees (Dec 21, 2004)

Since my deal seems to be running into some problems, do you think it's too late to take advantage of GM card discounts?

Right now I'm at $25,900 after the $5500 GMAC rebate and a $2000 GMS rebate, but I'd sure like to get another $5k if I can. I had agreed on a deal with my dealer, but now he is having trouble locating the car I wanted, (6M Black w/red), and it's making me nervous.


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## golfshaftguys (Sep 9, 2004)

go onto the pontiac website and locate one yourself. I just did it yesterday to find a blue with blue 6 speed and found about 10 of them.


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## Scissors (Jul 27, 2004)

Trace said:


> Hey folks, you know as well as I do that a lot of people are simply lying on these forums about what they paid. Gee, uh, I paid, uh, $18k out the door & they threw in a plasma tv as a sweetner...


That you say there are a "lot" of people lying about what they paid would mean that you should be able to point someone out (assuming that you're not just assuming.)


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

I could have gotten a black/black manual from a dealer in maryland that had the car on eBay for 24250 before the 5000 gm card earnings. this was on december 9th.

I paid 25400 before the gm card earnings on december 9th, got 2000 in earnings so it was 23400, had I waited 72 hours it would have been 20400 and that was at invoice less one coupon, add two more coupons (my dealer is a fairly small dealer) and it would have been 19400 - with an 18565 residual!!! gotta love that one.

now if the dealer wants it out and give the holdback away, you have Snafu's number.

I am envious! But like I said, I will wait to exact my revenge. I think I pay just under 10,000 to use the car for three years, I paid tax on the residual already, and if the car is not a lemon, I will try my damndest to get it for as close to 10000 as possible.


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## kevracer (Sep 27, 2004)

I agree; I remember when you used to leave the window sticker on the car so your neighbors could so how much you paid. Now it's all about how cheap you got the car. I bought my GTO and got a payment that was within my budget. "Nuff said.


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## jontyrees (Dec 21, 2004)

Well, I just applied for and was approved for a GM card. Now where's my rebate, dammit?!


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## Scissors (Jul 27, 2004)

jontyrees said:


> Well, I just applied for and was approved for a GM card. Now where's my rebate, dammit?!



You'll have to make purchases and build up the rebate.


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

golfshaftguys said:


> One last thing that doesn't belong on this site but hey I didn't bring it up. How bout them steelers? Eagle fan you remember November 7th don't you!


I remember, but even the sun shines on a dog's ass somedays. The Steelers didn't beat Philly, Philly beat themselves.

Plus, it's only a matter of time until the most overated QB in the league chokes (Roethlisberger). Not to mention the Steelers barely squeaked by some of the worst teams in the league (Miami, NYG, Dallas, Jacksonville, Cincinnati, Oakland).

But never-the-less Nov. 7th will mean nothing come Super Bowl time, provided the Steelers can make it past Indy or New England (probably not, though). So we'll probably have to wait until next year for a rematch. Christ, I mean Buffalo is gonna beat the Steelers in the last week of the regular season.


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

jontyrees said:


> Well, I just applied for and was approved for a GM card. Now where's my rebate, dammit?!


You can't redeem any points until your first statement posts...after that, you have to be targeted for the promotion. The roundup offer stated that you had to be a cardmember before 11/14/04 (I called and asked).


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## fffernan (Dec 9, 2004)

Pittsberg is gunna kill the Patriots if Brady keeps thinking he can throw passes while getting sacked or lying on the ground. Monday's loss was disgracful.

-Frank


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## EdwardC (Oct 8, 2004)

djdub said:


> I remember, but even the sun shines on a dog's ass somedays. The Steelers didn't beat Philly, Philly beat themselves.
> 
> Plus, it's only a matter of time until the most overated QB in the league chokes (Roethlisberger). Not to mention the Steelers barely squeaked by some of the worst teams in the league (Miami, NYG, Dallas, Jacksonville, Cincinnati, Oakland).
> 
> But never-the-less Nov. 7th will mean nothing come Super Bowl time, provided the Steelers can make it past Indy or New England (probably not, though). So we'll probably have to wait until next year for a rematch. Christ, I mean Buffalo is gonna beat the Steelers in the last week of the regular season.


As luck would have it, the playoff games run through philly, again. Can anyone say "home field advantage?" I didn't think so.


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

I just bought the Eagles for $12,900 out the door!!!


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

golfshaftguys said:


> I think the audience is limited on the GTO for this reason. The people who most want them cant afford either the car or the insurance, let's all face it the young guys are drooling. A lot of guys who can afford it want something that looks more like a sports car or something that says Merceded or BMW on the side etc. If I didn't need the back seat for my kids, I would go for a vette.


When they first announced the GTO I was wondering why they didnt put a Northstar in it? If you want to go after BMW you have to answer with the technology. While the pushrod V8 is great, I think a lot of true import guys would have taken a second look at the GTO if it had a Northstar. 

Who is the target audience for the GTO? Think about it. Is GM going after the camaro/mustang mullet crowd, or is GM going after the import crowd?

The car costs more than a mustang, and the IRS is a drawback at the strip. The car costs less than a BMW but the motor is considered primitive. 

The car is a second car for almost everyone here with a kid.


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

Snafu said:


> I just bought the Eagles for $12,900 out the door!!!


Now that's a deal, the Super Bowl ring alone will be worth more than that.

I like when people rag on teams that are 13-1. It makes so much sense.


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

djdub said:


> Now that's a deal, the Super Bowl ring alone will be worth more than that.
> 
> I like when people rag on teams that are 13-1. It makes so much sense.


Lighten up...I'm just kidding.  

I don't even care about the Eagles...heck our home team (Carolina Panthers) are like 6-8...now that's bad.


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

Snafu said:


> Lighten up...I'm just kidding.
> 
> I don't even care about the Eagles...heck our home team (Carolina Panthers) are like 6-8...now that's bad.


I know, I'm playing along, no hard feelings here.


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## Neo-GTO (Sep 29, 2004)

Wow, some hostility is brewing in here.

Here is how I see it. GM is screwing people who bought the car two months ago, not to mention 6 months ago. They are also discouraging buyers who are coming from other makes from buying these cars with their GM card discounts. 

First, the existing owners. It has been proven that a rebate placed on a vehicle comes off the resale value of that vehicle almost dollar for dollar. With all the rebates available, not counting the GM card discounts, these vehicles are still being sold in a Fire Sale fashion. Anyone off the street should be able to walk into a dealer, get the car for invoice, minus the $5500, and minus $1500 in certificates. That is roughly $8500 off sticker price. Now, drive it off the lot and it depreciates further than that. Its quite possible that by the time the 2005’s hit the lots, a low mileage used GTO will be worth less than 1/3 of its MSRP. That is an alarmingly bad resale amount! What will it be in 3 years? 5 years? 

I think its great that more people can afford the GTO. Super for them! However, if you bought the GTO with lesser rebates, or close to sticker, you have really lost a lot of value and are probably seriously upside down on the loan. When those people go to trade in, they will discover this and chances are will not be too keen on buying another GTO. They are selling more niche vehicles (not only GTO, but the upcoming Kappa’s) to try and attract enthusiasts back to GM, and to have some cars with good images to boost other products. Then they sell the Pontiac flagship at flea market prices. It ruins the brand image too.

I also do not like how they structure their rebates. They are offering incredible incentives to GM card members. Great. However, that’s not attracting new customers. Its simply trying to get a current customer (most likely) to buy another GM car. If you don’t have a car with even a few rebate credits, you are looking at paying thousands more for the GTO. So any outside buyer will end up taking a larger depreciation hit than a cardholder, since they will have to pay more and the incentive will cause more depreciation.

With selling practices like that, why would anyone come back to GM who bought another make? I certainly wouldn’t come running back. They really should offer a conquest rebate of similar value to the GM Card rebate to try and get import buyers into this car. Of all the cars in GM’s lineup, the GTO is the closest to the high quality imports in fit/finish and driving experience. If there is one car that could attract and keep import buyers, it is the GTO. So why does GM discourage them from buying with a less favorable bottom line?


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## EdwardC (Oct 8, 2004)

Really,

All of this makes me wonder if Roger Smith, the infamously bad CEO of GM back in the 80's and the subject of Michael Moore's film _Roger and Me_, has reclaimed the helm, hired chimps for first officers and set the good ship General Motors on a course towards the Bermuda Triangle. The GTO could have been a solid anchor for the USS General Motors but instead, it is being treated like expendable ballast.

Ok enough with the nautical metaphors.


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## 6spdgoat (Dec 23, 2004)

I am picking up a red, black leather, 6spd GTO tomorrow and I received a great price:

$5,000 in rebates
$5,126 in GM card points
$2,823 discount from the dealer


Bottom line I paid is $20,241, 2.9% for 60 months too.


I drove one for the first time last night, nice ride!


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## BigJim (Oct 30, 2004)

Concrats, Just in time for Christmas! :cheers


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## skibum100_777 (Dec 21, 2004)

since the resale value is going to be so low, why aren't more people just smartbuying?


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

skibum100_777 said:


> since the resale value is going to be so low, why aren't more people just smartbuying?


That's what I did. 285 a month for three years with only 2000 GM card money down and 8.75% tax. It would have been about 210 a month if I waited three days! AARGH!


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## davidscout (Dec 23, 2004)

Seems like the right spot for my first post - been "lurking" for weeks, so it's past
time to fess up and subject myself to some of this hostility!

Just took delivery on an '04 GTO black/black (OK, "anthracite" interior) here in 
Atlanta - had to go to North Carolina to find one and my dealer "allowed" me to take
a G6 from their inventory to trade. I didn't want some flunkie driving my GTO, of
course, so this helped both my dealer and me.

Got the $5,500 rebate available in the southeast, plus a $500 dealer "coupon" plus
GM credit card earnings. Had $1,701 in earnings from actual purchases, but this
was deemed worth $6,155 (!!) towards a GTO (would have been good on Chevy's
sport truck, SSR I think, or a Cadillac SRX, other slow-sellers).

As good as this was, I have to thank the forum for suggesting leasing. I had 
already decided to wait until the '05's were out - like the "midnight blue" not to 
mention 400 hp - but went with a 2-year lease on an '04 as a sort of compromise.
Very little invested, max flexibility, GMAC takes risk on true "residual value."
Three thing conspired to lower lease deal - the heavy discounts currently available
on up-front value, high residual (62% of sticker after two years) and still reasonable
effective interest rate (4% and change). Two-year lease is $186/mo, no balloon
payments or obligations other than proper maintenance. And my dealer picked up
the first payment. After two years, renegotiate if I want to keep it or walk away! (Maybe a Judge would be available by then?)

Car is undergoing dealer prep, plus the driver info parts of the temp and fuel guages 
are way off reasonable numbers, brakes are too soft and go too close to floor.
At least the tire pressures were right - took my gauge with me!

A very politically incorrect Merry Christmas to all!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Right on, David! Welcome to the asylum!


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## Racerbetty (Jan 9, 2005)

EdwardC said:


> Really,
> 
> All of this makes me wonder if Roger Smith, the infamously bad CEO of GM back in the 80's and the subject of Michael Moore's film _Roger and Me_, has reclaimed the helm, hired chimps for first officers and set the good ship General Motors on a course towards the Bermuda Triangle. The GTO could have been a solid anchor for the USS General Motors but instead, it is being treated like expendable ballast.
> 
> Ok enough with the nautical metaphors.



:agree


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## PULSE04GTO (Dec 16, 2004)

> If you would think about it from my point of view... I work my ass of to be able to afford my 2 car payments and somebody sneaks in and snatches one up for 1/2 the monthly payment. All because they wait til the end of the model year and because they have a credit card charging problem earning them another $5000 off the car.


Wow....I cant believe how worked up you are about this, seems rather childish to me. I myself was one of those who claimed over $10000 in rebates and was actually looking into purchasing an infiniti g35 at the time...but for obvious reasons I went w/ the GTO, who would blame me? It's not that I couldnt afford a GTO when they first arrived at dealerships, in fact I pay $580/ month, which is NOT half of your payment if my math skills have not failed me. But just to be childish like yourself, and and ******* to boot, I would just like you to know that mine w/ be paid off in 3 years unlike yours. Forgive me for not walking into the dealer and saying, "No, I dont want any of those rebates....I would rather just pay sticker price." BTW, my gm card earnings for almost two years was just over 500 bucks, which is just over $10000 in charges, of which every dollar was paid in full each month. Considering that I put most of my major purchases on my card, that is far from what I would consider a "credit card charging PROBLEM."
Card usage had little to do w/ who got targeted for the roundup and who didnt. 

Everything else I intended to say runs concurrent w/ what snafu said in his first post...

Have an excellent day,

Jarvis


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

PULSE04GTO said:


> Wow....I cant believe how worked up you are about this, seems rather childish to me. I myself was one of those who claimed over $10000 in rebates and was actually looking into purchasing an infiniti g35 at the time...but for obvious reasons I went w/ the GTO, who would blame me? It's not that I couldnt afford a GTO when they first arrived at dealerships, in fact I pay $580/ month, which is NOT half of your payment if my math skills have not failed me. But just to be childish like yourself, and and ******* to boot, I would just like you to know that mine w/ be paid off in 3 years unlike yours. Forgive me for not walking into the dealer and saying, "No, I dont want any of those rebates....I would rather just pay sticker price." BTW, my gm card earnings for almost two years was just over 500 bucks, which is just over $10000 in charges, of which every dollar was paid in full each month. Considering that I put most of my major purchases on my card, that is far from what I would consider a "credit card charging PROBLEM."
> Card usage had little to do w/ who got targeted for the roundup and who didnt.
> 
> Everything else I intended to say runs concurrent w/ what snafu said in his first post...
> ...



Wow, whos the guy digging up old ass news?


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## PULSE04GTO (Dec 16, 2004)

i didnt realize that it was old until i started checking out dates....whoever posted before me is responsible for digging this up....and i mean no flame to whover that was. I had fun ranting anyway.

Jarvis


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## twolf (Nov 24, 2004)

I missed this post the first time around. It sure is a sign of the times. the GTO isn't selling poorly because it is a poor car, its just that over the last 2 years, many people and familes have already traded in their cars for 0% interest super great deals on cars and don't want to change cars again. 0% was for a limited time... at first. Something that was like a gift to America to help boost the econmy after 9-11. But it is still around!! after 2 years!!! now it is a standard... rebating is standard... paying sticker price is gone forever.


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## fffernan (Dec 9, 2004)

twolf said:


> I missed this post the first time around. It sure is a sign of the times. the GTO isn't selling poorly because it is a poor car, its just that over the last 2 years, many people and familes have already traded in their cars for 0% interest super great deals on cars and don't want to change cars again. 0% was for a limited time... at first. Something that was like a gift to America to help boost the econmy after 9-11. But it is still around!! after 2 years!!! now it is a standard... rebating is standard... paying sticker price is gone forever.


I know plenty of people who pay sticker for toyotas, bmws, and audi's. The problem is that people would rather buy imports cause they think they are better and worth the extra money. GM and Ford need to do something other than rebates to sell cars. I dont mind cause i can get a good deal on cars i want i just hate to see them stop selling the cars i like because all they can sell its SUV's and pickup trucks.

-Frank


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