# Gas and Quality



## spivey04 (May 18, 2011)

Im looking to buy a GTO, in the year range 04+ if possible. I would like a car that gets good gas mileage and yet i want one that i can add onto and make it a nice fast car. Also, is there anything i can add to the GTO i get that will help with gas mileage and/or make it worse.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

This a gag? 
If you're looking for a car that gets god gas mileage you are considering the wrong car unless your idea of good gas mileage is 15-19 MPG. You will get better MPG on open road but 5.7L or 6.0L for fuel economy? Nothing you add to the car will yield you better gas mileage at least nothing worth spending $$ on. Perhaps remove the motor and replace it with an ecotech. 

The faster you make the car go the more fuel it sucks. Keep looking.


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## spivey04 (May 18, 2011)

When i said good i ment good for GTOs, i know they dont get amazing gas mileage. Still learning about cars and just wondering if there was things to do to them to help with the mileage. Dont have to be sarcastic, thanks for the answer though.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

There's isn't anything sarcastic in what he said.......


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## Belnick (Mar 24, 2011)

i did some redlight racing today in the city and driving from my town to the city, about 25km freeway and i used up about 20liters 

like 3-4 times more than it should have used up heeh, but it is hard with a car like this and drive it like a volvo or a saab 
also having corsa sport does not help hehe


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## spivey04 (May 18, 2011)

Lol, oh and one more question. What kind of gas should i use? Planning on getting an 04 GTO.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Premium


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## spivey04 (May 18, 2011)

Thats what i thought from readng a good bit of things on here, but wanted to make sure, thanks.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

You can put 87 octane though. If you do the computer will just adapt for it to not cause knocking. You will not get the highest performance though. To get the most out of it, you gotta put premium. But with gas prices this high, theres nothing wrong with putting regular lol


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## spivey04 (May 18, 2011)

Hahaha, yeah.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

spivey04 said:


> When i said good i ment good for GTOs, i know they dont get amazing gas mileage. Still learning about cars and just wondering if there was things to do to them to help with the mileage. Dont have to be sarcastic, thanks for the answer though.


Sarcastic? 

Did you understand what you asked? 

_"I would like a car that gets good gas mileage and yet i want one that i can add onto and make it a nice fast car."_

You say you are looking for a car that gets good gas mileage and want a GTO then you say you know it doesn't get "amazing" gas mileage.

You haven't heard sarcastic guy. I still say, look for another car that will not worry your gas budget, your inquiries suggest you don't have an understanding of this car. 

If you are looking for responses that will make you sleep better at night its not gonna help the reality. I could sugar coat it lie and tell you 28 average MPG nooooo problem. Good Luck, you'll need it. :cheers :cheers


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## spivey04 (May 18, 2011)

Lol, yes, it was a very bad question. And i responded poorly too. Thanks for the info, and i know now about the mileage.


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## TheDtrain (Apr 9, 2011)

putting in 87 makes it a hog. Man I made a mistake last time at the pump. Premo was at 4.55!!! I made the decision to put in 4.12 87 (I was in a hate the government/speculators type of mood, trying to stick it to them- jokes on me) and I regretted it, Wont chirp going into 2nd even. Ugh. Gas milage suffers as well - probably because you have to use more throttle to get the same performance you're used to


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Well if your worried about gas prices and you put in 87 octane, wouldn't it be redundant to try and chirp the tires? Your worrying about paying less for gas but yet your driving it in a way to waste more? 

I specifically said it will not have the same performance as if you put in the higher octane. When I put in lower octane, its because the prices for higher octane are through the roof. My goal here is to be wasting less gas, not worrying about my tires not chirping.


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## TheDtrain (Apr 9, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> Well if your worried about gas prices and you put in 87 octane, wouldn't it be redundant to try and chirp the tires? Your worrying about paying less for gas but yet your driving it in a way to waste more?
> 
> I specifically said it will not have the same performance as if you put in the higher octane. When I put in lower octane, its because the prices for higher octane are through the roof. My goal here is to be wasting less gas, not worrying about my tires not chirping.


I did this before reading any forum. So it was pretty much "Hey I wonder what effects it'll have with 87" And then i proceeded to test.

So, sorry I didn't see what you specifically said before I did it.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

No worries haha It just didn't make much sense in putting lower octane to save money, and then drive around haulin' ass lol But yes it definitely does change performance. But then again, it does not hurt the car, since the computer just reprograms itself to accept it. But if you do here a knocking or strange noise, then you might want to change the fuel back to premium.


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## TheDtrain (Apr 9, 2011)

haha I hauled ass to get rid of the ****ty 87 once I found out what it did! lol


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Hahaha! I agree though. It does suck, and to tell you the truth, the savings are not that great putting regular.

You said you paid $4.55 for Premium and then paid $4.12 for Regular. The GTO tank holds 18 gallons of fuel. So in essence, you saved $7.74 by putting Regular. If you fill up once a week, that's $30.96 a month you save. Not really worth it to me


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## TheDtrain (Apr 9, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> Hahaha! I agree though. It does suck, and to tell you the truth, the savings are not that great putting regular.
> 
> You said you paid $4.55 for Premium and then paid $4.12 for Regular. The GTO tank holds 18 gallons of fuel. So in essence, you saved $7.74 by putting Regular. If you fill up once a week, that's $30.96 a month you save. Not really worth it to me


Nor me 

Great car BTW I LOVE the black and red gto


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Appreciate it!


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

GTO JUDGE said:


> This a gag?
> If you're looking for a car that gets god gas mileage you are considering the wrong car unless your idea of good gas mileage is 15-19 MPG. You will get better MPG on open road but 5.7L or 6.0L for fuel economy? Nothing you add to the car will yield you better gas mileage at least nothing worth spending $$ on. Perhaps remove the motor and replace it with an ecotech.
> 
> The faster you make the car go the more fuel it sucks. Keep looking.


Wrong.....on my dads GTO i put on a K&N cold air intake and air filter and his MPG went up for 16 to 18 in one tank. it also added HP so it was a win win and worth the money

Also on my car when i did full exhaust, new spark plugs and wires, port and polished mass air flow sensor, and new air filter my MPG went for 13 to 19

anything that helps air transition smoothy(cold air intake, intake manifold, trottle body, mass air flow sensor)

or leave smoothy (headers, exhasut system, even muffler but not as much as first to) is going to help MPG


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

First of all. 93 octane only for me... and not Walmart gas either, for me it has to be Shell, Chevron, or something like that. No Habib or Paw's corner station. I've tried it before and it runs bad. I wouldn't be surprised if they all had the cheap gas no matter what you selected at those types of places.

2nd. I get 18 if I baby it and 12 if I drive like I stole it. Its stroked and bored to a 406 or 6.66 litter mad Cold Air Intake, headers, heads ported etc. it don't matter what you do to it, Your foot is what determines the mileage.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Agenthol302 said:


> Wrong.....on my dads GTO i put on a K&N cold air intake and air filter and his MPG went up for 16 to 18 in one tank. it also added HP so it was a win win and worth the money
> 
> Also on my car when i did full exhaust, new spark plugs and wires, port and polished mass air flow sensor, and new air filter my MPG went for 13 to 19
> 
> ...



hmmm you did all that to get to 19mpg? I did none of that and am getting those numbers. My AEM CAI didn't yield me anything worth writing about. The HP gain is minimal, and the MPG? Negligible. If you did all that to get to the average of what many claim they are getting without dumping all that loot in the car, something many not have been right with the car to begin with.

My car was delivered in May 2005 and I have NEVER gotten 15 mpg even at the worse. The worst stop and go mpg I have gotten was mid 17 mpg and I keep an eye on this. Your claim of adding all the above just to get you to average suggests something may have been a miss.

Your new mpg numbers are still below mine with no $$$ except a CAI. Round town driving I am getting 18-19 mpg. Those numbers haven't changed since I purchased the car new.


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## Zdeuce4 (Dec 3, 2010)

talked to a dude that owned three different gas stations. he said he bought it all from the same place. lol.. i dont really believe the hype on different gas.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

GTO JUDGE said:


> hmmm you did all that to get to 19mpg? I did none of that and am getting those numbers. My AEM CAI didn't yield me anything worth writing about. The HP gain is minimal, and the MPG? Negligible. If you did all that to get to the average of what many claim they are getting without dumping all that loot in the car, something many not have been right with the car to begin with.
> 
> My car was delivered in May 2005 and I have NEVER gotten 15 mpg even at the worse. The worst stop and go mpg I have gotten was mid 17 mpg and I keep an eye on this. Your claim of adding all the above just to get you to average suggests something may have been a miss.
> 
> Your new mpg numbers are still below mine with no $$$ except a CAI. Round town driving I am getting 18-19 mpg. Those numbers haven't changed since I purchased the car new.


1. i didnt add all those to get MPG haha i did those for performance and the MPG just was a added bonus

2. all that went on my 1998 CAMARO Z28 with 107k not a GTO so me still having a lower MPG would make sense 

3. a smiple CAI add 2 MPG in one tank on my dads GTO

if you didnt get any MPG gains by your cold air intake im sorry to hear that because everyone that i know has seen performance and MPG gains from CAI.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

What GTO Judge is trying to say is that these mods have little if any effect on MPG. MPG, although it is something that can improve or get worse, is something that has to do with your style of driving. I can haul ass around town and get 7mpg if I wanted, but I also get an average of around 17-19. I'll tell you right now, there are no mods that improve mpg. There are way to many other factors involved in that argument. 

Your also stating that new spark plugs and wires, exhaust, etc. added mpg on your car. Well you also just stated in your last post that your Camaro had 107k miles on her. If you were gaining this much mpg by installing these things, then its true, something was not right before you installed them. I just recently replaced my spark plugs and wires and nothing changed in my mpg. Chances are your car needed new spark plugs and wires since it had so many miles. Even if there were only 80k when you changed them. That's why the mpg got so much better, because the mpg before you changed them was suffering due to needing a replacement. 

To answer your question, nothing you do to this car will warrant a big gain in mpg. You might get 1 or 2 here and there, but if you want to go faster, your gonna get worse mpg. Its as simple as that.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I just don't see any point in arguing something so anecdotal.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

dont listen to these guys. there are plenty of products that will help MPG. to say that nothjing helps MPG is wrong


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

First of all, no one here said that nothing will allow better gas mileage. I specifically said that the mpg you earn from go fast mods like you stated in your first post are minimal. 

Second of all, what you don't seem to understand is that you are looking to buy a GTO but want a car that gets good gas mileage. GTO and "good gas mileage" don't belong in the same statement. Then you claim you want to make it a "nice fast car" but yet you want to get better gas mileage? How is this supposed to happen? No one is arguing that putting a CAI in the car is not a good idea, nor beneficial. But it is definitely not something that you would consider a mpg booster.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Get an '04 manual and find someone to enable "Lean Cruise". You can get close to 30 highway and BTW, use premium


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Wouldn't that require HP Tuners though?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Add on's and tweaks here and there will only yield you slight MPG increases. If there was a magic pill or add on that would yield one significant gains in MPG those products would be the rage and millions would be using them. Most things advertised to net you modest gains in MPG are gimmicks. To boast on gaining a few MPG or spending mega bucks to get you 2-3 MPG is IMO not worth the extra loot. 

If one remembers the little turbine fan that was advertised all over TV about 10 years ago to be installed to increase HP and MPG that was debunked. That was a gimmick. They boasted significant gains in both and it did virtually nothing except make someone money. Many on here were riding their Big Wheels when that gimmick was perpetrated. Having your car tuned and reformatted would be your best bet, not an improved fan, spark plugs, extra clean windows, super duper plug wires, Ultra Maximum MPG car waxes and such. YOUR FOOT is the biggest MPG gain. Boasting going from 17 to 19 MPG by spending mega bucks to do it makes one look  Going down a hill with the foot off the gas will accomplish this too.

Here's an idea..... If you want a GTO that gets GREAT gas mileage.... get a Cavalier or GP and put GTO badges all over it and pretend. Hell, many think that's what these cars are anyway.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Agenthol302 said:


> dont listen to these guys. there are plenty of products that will help MPG. to say that nothjing helps MPG is wrong


NO ONE is disputing there are products to get you increased MPG. Whats being disputed is the gains. Slight gains in MPG is not worth the debate. 5-10 MPG is a hell of a gain, not 1 to 2.


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## Grumpy's_Toy (Jan 27, 2011)

I notice when I use regular that my range says 350miles and when I use premium it usually hits 310miles, I read somewhere "higher octane will yield fewer miles per gallon". This is also happened on my Silverado.


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

Here in Texas any pump may have up to 10 - 15% ethanol, which gets less mileage. So with ethanol in your gas, you will automatically get lower MPGs. Not to mention it holds more water then Gasoline without any Alcohol. 

So lets think about it. 15% ethanol in your fuel lowers mileage due to less energy. Extra water in fuel adds to the volume, but in essence lowers the amount of fuel per volume (or per squirt of the injector) - this lowers power output which makes your foot press the peddle down more to make the same amount of power. This lowers MPG also.  This, combined with the way I drive, is why I never get the range my computer says I should.

Pump gas is a racket.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

motoristx said:


> So lets think about it. 15% ethanol in your fuel lowers mileage due to less energy. Extra water in fuel adds to the volume, but in essence lowers the amount of fuel per volume (or per squirt of the injector) - this lowers power output which makes your foot press the peddle down more to make the same amount of power.


Ethanol has a higher octane rating than gas. Water has an infinite octane rating rating. Both are more resistant to detonation than gas. Although it's harder to burn, burns colder and require more volume, causing a lower mpg, ethanol, say in the form of e-85, can give a car more power over gas in a boosted application by being able to raise boost and timing in order to achieve more power. With out added timing it will shown no gains. Small gains will only be seen on n/a applications with a tune.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

motoristx said:


> Here in Texas any pump may have up to 10 - 15% ethanol, which gets less mileage. So with ethanol in your gas, you will automatically get lower MPGs. Not to mention it holds more water then Gasoline without any Alcohol.
> 
> *So lets think about it. 15% ethanol in your fuel lowers mileage due to less energy. Extra water in fuel adds to the volume, but in essence lowers the amount of fuel per volume (or per squirt of the injector) - this lowers power output which makes your foot press the peddle down more to make the same amount of power. * This lowers MPG also.  This, combined with the way I drive, is why I never get the range my computer says I should.
> 
> Pump gas is a racket.


I don't understand where people get that from. Water stays separate from the fuel and sits at the bottom of the tank. It only gets run through when you run empty. Also, water in the tank is a good thing, it actually pulls the ethanol out of the fuel and into the water. So in a way its best to buy your gas from some place that's got old tanks with lots of water in them, you'll be getting about 5% corn juice then.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I think I am gonna fill the gas tank 1/4 way with water from the tap here then go to Sunoco. Water will displace the ethanol giving me increased octane boost. As I use a 1/2 tank I will use a few bottles of heet to evaporate the water. Genius. :cheers


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

If you had your own setup at home, you could process your fuel pretty easily to remove the ethanol. Just some water in quantity larger than 10% of the total volume and some agitation. I was super impressed when they showed this to us in school as a way to measure the ethanol content in the fuel. They had us take a 100mL beaker, put 90mL of gas in it, then 10mL of water, and shake for 5 minutes. Then you measure what separates at the bottom after 10 minutes, ours was I think 14mL. For the content percentage you take the measured separation, subtract 10mL and divide it by the 90mL of gas. Pretty neat stuff. Of course they have an electronic analyzer too...

Ooo, then you could distill the remnants, and come out with some drinkable booze too. :lol:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I recently purchased a Jack La-Lane vegetable juicer. I pureed 14 dozen ears of corn, 2 bushels of green beans, 4 bushels of lima beans, 2 large squash and 6 watermelons. To this I added 6 quarts of distilled water. 

It made me about 3 gallons of fuel. I added it to the gas tank along with some octane booster. I calculated my MPG and found I got 77 miles a gallon.

I mailed my recipe to the FEDS and was in the process of getting a patent when I got a visit from the GAS CZAR. I was told if I made any more of this I would be subject to 15 years in prison.

I was told if I was a foreigner I would be eligible for Federal funding and given a grant NOT to produce this. I asked what can I do to help here? I was told NOTHING. The FEDS are dealing with crop fuel production and they will determine who what where and when. 

The SOB confiscated my Jack La-Lane and warned me if I dare try this again, I will be made an example of. I ordered a new one and its being shipped to my neighbor, he supports whats going on.......


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

^^^^^^^ There it is in a nutshell.......


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

This is a thread that has gone wrong....


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I recently purchased a Jack La-Lane vegetable juicer. I pureed 14 dozen ears of corn, 2 bushels of green beans, 4 bushels of lima beans, 2 large squash and 6 watermelons. To this I added 6 quarts of distilled water.
> 
> It made me about 3 gallons of fuel. I added it to the gas tank along with some octane booster. I calculated my MPG and found I got 77 miles a gallon.


What did it smell like?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

68greengoat said:


> ^^^^^^^ There it is in a nutshell.......


YEP ..... They are going to dictate your fuel



GM4life said:


> This is a thread that has gone wrong....


Oh yea.... LOL :lol::lol:



Poncho Dan said:


> What did it smell like?


Smelled like a vegetable stand. Maybe I will try fuel made from proteins. I know what that will smell like.  

Lord I apologize for that right there, and be with all the starving pigmies down there in New Guinea ...Amen


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Poncho Dan said:


> I don't understand where people get that from. Water stays separate from the fuel and sits at the bottom of the tank. It only gets run through when you run empty. Also, water in the tank is a good thing, it actually pulls the ethanol out of the fuel and into the water. So in a way its best to buy your gas from some place that's got old tanks with lots of water in them, you'll be getting about 5% corn juice then.


Actually, you have it a little backwards, its ok as there is lots of disinformation out there and its often very hard to know what is fact and what is fiction or outright wrong. The way water bonds with ethanol means the water wont stay at the bottom of the tank, it is absorbed and burned. Water is not a problem with ethanol fuels, you can have over 20% water in straight ethanol and it is still a viable fuel. In other words two gallons of water in a ten gallon tank of ethanol is still a good fuel and will run in your engine without any problem. 

Water is a HUGE problem with gasoline. HEET and other additives that will help with a water in gas problem are either ethanol or methanol. Both will absorb the water and allow you to burn it instead of it getting sucked up and fouling your injectors/carb. Gasoline is displaced by water, meaning you can fill your pump, injectors, and lines with water and it will not run.

I make ethanol from spoiled fruit/veggies, grocery waste, and cattails, and I run it in my 70 GTO, and as soon as the 67 Cougar is running it will have an ethanol carb too. I dont sell the stuff, I just use it in my hotrods. The modern cars can run it easily as well. My 1998 Pontiacs both run high ethanol blends and get the same or better mileage. One is a Formula with an LS1, the other is a Gran Prix with a 3800 v6.

Its not nearly as bad as people say it is, its really a very good fuel.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

GM4life said:


> This is a thread that has gone wrong....


Beginning somewhere around post number one with healthy nudges from post 21, 25, and 28..........


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I guess a little entertainment is okay..


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