# Trade 05 for a 68 GTO



## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Need your advice again Goat mates. 
Looking into an even trade for a 68 GTO. I've tried putting pics on but they don't come out so the site is: GTO For Sale | GTO For Sale | Used GTO For Sale | Used GTO For Sale 
Its the Burgandy 68 for 19900. Don, the owner is calling me today to discuss the cars.
What do you think?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

IMO...I would not trade my 05 for one. He's asking under 20K, your car was 33K new. Yours is still worth more than that one is. You are trading down. Before you sign anything, I'd research the car heavily. Get the VIN and run it through the PHS yourself don't rely on someone else's run, there is just too much deception going on in the classic world to trust someone fully. 

There is no mention of matching numbers, etc. The car looks good in pics but for me, there are a ton of questions that need answered. For one, the color of the motor, it should be a medium blue metallic, not a baby blue color. (Unless the lighting is off) The engine has been changed out, how bout the transmission and rears? I see no induction for the Ram Air it says it is. NO PB, if you never driven a car with no PB its a different animal than one with PB.

The description of the car is vague. I'm not saying the car is a bad price for a straight up sale but to trade a new one on? I wouldn't. 

Proceed with extreme caution and do heavy research if you are trading your car on this one. Keep in mine that car is 40 years old. Driving it like a new one will require a lot more up keep and $$ than a new one does. Not to mention going from 20mpg to about 10.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Some of you thoughts is kind of what I was thinking. I wanted to be sure the 68 model wasn't something that had to be had no matter what. 
I will ask those questions you suggested but I am now inclined to stay with my solid performer. 
I just need some fatherly advice again.:cheers

THANK YOU!


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

to the seller's credit he does tell you the block has been changed but it retains the heads and exhaust manifolds...just do your research and realize that driving an older car is not the same as driving a newer car...as long as you go into something with your eyes open, there hopefully will be few if any surprises...good luck,
Bill


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Tis true about the driving factor of an older car. Plus, I don't know the 68 GTO at all. I was the 2nd owner of a 74 trans am and I knew everything about the car. As funny as it sounds, I knew its good days and bad days. 

So it's not a numbers matching car and what I can surmize after looking at countless GTO's for sale, anything in this price range translates into clone territory or into needing much work in getting this car in fine condition. 

I really enjoy the 05 GTO and as I like the styling, its not a grabber like the older muscle cars are.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Nice, I love the color, the hide-away headlights, the hood tach, rally wheels, it`s a sweet looking ride! I`d wanna put the motor back to original with the right intake, carb and air cleaner. I would think 10-20 yrs from now the `68 would be worth alot more then your `05.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

That is nice no doubt. I'd be interested in it but the timing isn't right. Is there anyway you can swing it without trading yours for it? Maybe he'll negotiate for cash. The value of those classics will continue to rise, right now the market is down, good time to buy from a motivated seller.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

He is very interested in mine and he told me the 68 is a ram air but needs the correct filter on it. A frame off was done 10 years ago.
Unfortunately, I can't swing it now without the trade but I am leaning back the other way now towards making the trade.

He will send me more pics and the vin # that I will share with you all. I will need help decifering the code.

Thanks fellow Goats!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Talk up how great your car is and point out all the stuff that needs to be corrected on the `68....if he want`s your car bad enough, then you may get some cash out of him too. Maybe find the right stuff and have an idea of how much it`s going to cost to get the RAM air back to being right and shoot for that amount?


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Great idea-will do.:agree


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

*Help!*

When it rains it pours.

Got another trade offer with 69 GTO Judge Tribute car from the same website.

Asking 22000 for his and I'm calling him this afternoon.

I like the Burgandy one better-just cleaner looking but the Judge has more goodies under the engine.

Oye-what to do!:willy:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I told you what I thought. No one wants a Judge more than me. I would not sacrifice my new one for an old one though straight up anyway. 

Just make sure you throughly research the car before pulling the trigger. Educate yourself on the car, and take someone with you versed in the car to guide you. Many cars in person don't look like the pics.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Ok Judge,

Did you get a chance to veiw the PICS of the Judge?
The engine is 428. It's a tribute Judge so what does that mean?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

raspantienator said:


> Ok Judge,
> 
> Did you get a chance to veiw the PICS of the Judge?
> The engine is 428. It's a tribute Judge so what does that mean?


My 02? First a tribute is a different way of saying CLONE. Is it a true 4-2 car (GTO), or 3-7 (Lemans)? He does say its PHS documented, but I'd ask for the Vin and do your own check. It says RA III, from the pics I do not see Ram Air. I see a duel snorkel intake. If the guy went to the bother of cloning it and it has RA III I don't understand why he didn't spend a couple of dollars and put the RA air cleaner system on :confused. I can't quite tell if there is a Ram Air knob on the lower dash behind the steering wheel, it could be obscured by the steering wheel. 

NO PB, wrong engine color. The Endura front doesn't look like too good a fit. They are a bear to get right though. At no time did GTO's have decals on the air cleaner but thats just nit picky. Judges had a wheel trim ring delete from factory, the air scoops on the hood had a black insert. I don't know anymore about it other than what he says. He put decals on the car and called it a tribute. He half assed cloned it. I see no resemblance to a Judge, only the stripe kit.

IMO if you are debating between the 2, I like the 68 better. Maybe you can use the clone as a bargaining chip to squeeze some $$ from the guy with the 68?

22K isn't that bad if it checks out but I'd still not give mine up for it.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks Judge. I am still waiting for the VIN # on the 68. He told me of some spots that I have also asked for the pics on. I do like the way the 68 looks better than the "tribute " too. Even the interior looks cleaner. 

I hear you regarding the newer vs the older. I have my 05 just the way I want it now. It's spotless in and out and drives strong and solid. 

but Rukee had a point about 10 years from now and the value of the 2 cars.

You have your Judge so I see your point about not trading the newer car for a 68, but if you only had the 04, would you still imagine yourself feeling the same way? 

I suppose I'm looking for the best of both worlds. I love to drive performance, but miss the classic muscle looks.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

raspantienator said:


> Thanks Judge. I am still waiting for the VIN # on the 68. He told me of some spots that I have also asked for the pics on. I do like the way the 68 looks better than the "tribute " too. Even the interior looks cleaner.
> 
> I hear you regarding the newer vs the older. I have my 05 just the way I want it now. It's spotless in and out and drives strong and solid.
> 
> ...


I don't have a Judge or a classic, yet anyway. The pic in the avatar is a well done clone I nearly bought. It was exactly replicated to a 70' Judge, every detail was taken care of and checked out. Except the title. It was bad and I found out at the last minute before I forked over cash to the guy. The more questions I asked the guy the less credible he became and he went as far as suggesting to me to partake in an illegal transaction. What I went through is a reason why I am so skeptical of what is out there. The more I become informed, the more inconsistencies I see in other cars and reading between the advertising lines.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

WOW! It is certainly a good thing you did find out. It's one thing to buy a clone knowing and quite another being deceived. I have been looking extensively and when I come across a 50000 GTO, I say "oh yeah", I can see why it's so much.
Some of the clones however do look so good, I don't know visually how you can tell. 

I wish I had the money for both but with 4 kids and my first on her way to college in September, there is no way. 
I am calling the Tribute GTO's owner at 1 today so I will try to re-ask many questions.
Hopefully the 68's pics and vin # will come tonight so I can check that out. I'll share that info with you.

Thanks Judge


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

How about a 1968 numbers matching PHS documented 4 speed convertible 40 miles from your home for $22,500?

1968 GTO Convertible - HO 400 4 speed - Rare 1 of 766

Or a 68 Hardtop 200 miles from you for $18,000;

68 GTO


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

That is nice....and close. It will have to involve a trade. Is that your GTO?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

raspantienator said:


> Is that your GTO?


Which one? 2 of mine are in my sig. The links I sent you are from the New York State craigslist. I did a search in cars and trucks for "GTO".


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Frank: Here is an idea for ya;

The GTOAA International Convention is in Saratoga Sprigs Tuesday July 15-18. I will be there Friday July 18 arriving probably late AM and leaving Early Sunday Morning.

Come on over. It's an ALL GTO Event with experts there. There will be swap meets there all week you may find the car of your dreams there. You will certainly get an education on cars so you can be better informed and prepared to shop with less apprehension. The only catch is you must be a GTOAA member and pay 40.00 entrance fee. You have plenty of time to register to become a member. If you are really wanting a classic GTO it may be worth your while to join and shop there. Prices there may be high but you can give your name out to owners who can't move them there but may be willing to haggle afterwards. I would highly recommend attending it if you can hold another 6 weeks or so. 

Who's Who in the GTO world will be there, all the top brass and seminars. Click the flashing banner in the forum to get to the site. I am leaving my check book at home cause to me it will be like being in a candy shop.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

As usual very good advise from Vic. I would not get in a hurry or you could make a costly mistake. Learn as much as possilble about the classics and then make an informed purchase.

Will this car be your daily driver?


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Good advice and I am a member. I just recieved my card last week. 

I feel a time crunch because the 04-06 are depreciating more rapidly than anticipated what I have seen of classic GTO's under 20000, much work is usually needed. 

I just want a nice day cruiser for spring summer and fall. 

I checked out that maroon 68 and it seems really nice with matching numbers. I made another trade offer-I can't help myself. Is there GTO annonymous anywhere?
Saratoga is close and I will make it there-just not sure which day but Russ is going too-are you guys meeting up?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Thanks Randy:

Russ? macgto? No he isn't going. Just me and another club member. Russ lives a few minutes from me I am sure if he went, we'd follow each other.

Your car isn't going to depreciate much more in 6 weeks from it's worth now. The choice is yours but you will see more classics up there than you can imagine. The likely hood of finding one in as good a shape for a good price is pretty good. Also you can use that has leverage in haggling with a guy selling. We're trying to give your "therapy" before you snort one. :lol:


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

6 weeks doesn't sound too long to wait so I will have to make arrangements to attend. I'm not sure if and where I'm working this Summer but I should have a better idea after Friday. Lets connect before you go to Saratoga so we can meet.

I need therapy in a big way!!!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

raspantienator said:


> 6 weeks doesn't sound too long to wait so I will have to make arrangements to attend. I'm not sure if and where I'm working this Summer but I should have a better idea after Friday. Lets connect before you go to Saratoga so we can meet.
> 
> I need therapy in a big way!!!


Not sure where to meet there other than the show field. I will be showing in the Popular Vote area. We can connect closer to the time.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I have some VINS and pics to add to my confusion. 

I do like the Burgandy one more and more. Here is the documentation to sort through.

I've told the Tribute GTO owner, I am no longer interested in the trade. Both GTO owners are sending PICS galore so now I am leary that they really want to trade. 

I have severe problems. :willy:


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

Anyone bringing back pictures from the show?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

raspantienator said:


> I have some VINS and pics to add to my confusion.
> 
> I do like the Burgandy one more and more. Here is the documentation to sort through.
> 
> ...


I think they both know they are getting the better end of the deal on a trade plus the market right now is down on the older cars and its hard right now to sell, take a look at Ebay very few are even hitting reserve. I don't know how long the burgundy one has been for sale but theres a good chance it will still be for sale after the Convention, or not. If you are confused, apply the air brakes, sort everything out and be totally informed before making a definitive decision on one.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Aramz06 said:


> Anyone bringing back pictures from the show?


My camera is getting Mark Maguire, I mean steroid shots right now for the show.


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

Modding a camera. ..... GENIUS!!


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

For some reason that reminds me of this beast.

YouTube - V8 Chainsaw 6


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Ok Here are the PHD for the Burgandy GTO-still waiting for pics of the under carraige and the rear.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Aramz06 said:


> For some reason that reminds me of this beast.
> 
> YouTube - V8 Chainsaw 6



WTF? LMAOOOOOOO Chainsaw massacre.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

raspantienator said:


> Ok Here are the PHD for the Burgandy GTO-still waiting for pics of the under carraige and the rear.


19,900 is not bad for a straight up sale, and the car looks good in pics. Still on a trade, personally I wouldn't. It is a damn nice looking car. Try and get the guy to throw in money, negotiate up and see how far he'll go then decide. Can you travel to inspect and drive it?


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

8 hours away so would it be foolish to move any further if a test drive is not possible. I've never brought a car without a test drive. 
Does the documentation look good? 
I'll send the other pics when I get them.

Buy the way, the gentle offered to fix the rust in the trunk of the Tribute GTO to go on with the trade. I suppose my GTO is more desirable than I beleived it to be.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

The documentation appears to be Ok at face value.

You can contact the GTOAA's 68' year guy and pick his brain. Ed Dreksler is his name and his email addy is on the GTOAA website. If there are any local chapters near where the car is, he may be able to send someone out to check it out for you or direct you to the local chapter. You can also ask the seller if there are any independent car inspectors nearby that can go out and critique the car for you. If you cannot get out there to see it, those are the steps I'd take.

Those guys are licking their chops at getting yours. I still think it would be in your best interest to go look at whats for sale next month in your back yard. All the experts will be there and you'll get a ton of help.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I know you are right. I really should tell the guy not to go through further trouble because the deal is off. I just need to see the pics I asked for on this GTO. 
I'm thinking bout' it.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Don't know if I shared the imperfections thus far.
Here they are

The headliner is good-he just included the pic with the others.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

Rukee said:


> I would think 10-20 yrs from now the `68 would be worth alot more then your `05.


That could be very true and a seriously valid point if collecting for an eventual payday. At some point I speculate the 04~06 GTO's will raise in worth after they bottom out somewhere during that time span... but they will never rise to the extent of the classics and hard to fully predict what the muscle car market might be like as gas prices continue to go up while the economy tanks. The same scenario played out in the late 70's early 80's when muscle car's could be had cheep because the market wasn't there. I don't think the market will disappear but there will be less people with deep pockets and those that do will be highly selective. 

When taking into consideration construction materials and rust preventive processes used in modern car manufacturing vrs old, a well kept 04~06 GTO will mainly need paint over that 20 year span while the 68 in the proposed swap and treated the same way, will probably need a total frame off restoration at some point during that same span. Without fully galvanized panels and zinc enriched primers applied in an optimum environment and prep before application, rust never sleeps as steel naturally reverts back to iron ore. That alone will exceed the current value of an 05 GTO if done properly and if not completed the car will depreciate due to condition in the current classic car market. So, its gonna take money to maybe make money. 

As a driver, the OP needs to consider, is the step back in time as Judge mentioned about the brakes, fuel consumption... and handling worth it in fun factor. He is the only one that knows that answer for himself. I do think he'd hate himself if a trade turned out to be swapping a perfectly good 05 for potentially a relatively short time later blue smoke unburned hydrocarbon blechin oldie that can't stop within the length of an aircraft carrier and wants to go straight at every bend in the road.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to own a 67 GTO rag top like I drove in high school in the early 70's... but outside of shows and the top 10 days of the year, a classic shouldn't be driven as hard as I drive my 06 when I take it for a rip down the road.... but that's just me.

It would be sweet if we all could afford the best of both worlds;


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Good points RBG.:agree
I finally saw another GTO on the Thruway yesterday. A nice Blue one with aftermarket rims went by on the other side so I did not get a glimps. Its the first one other than mine I've seen on the road. I notice cars and look at them all as i drive so the newer ones are few and far between here in upstate NY.

The guy with the burgandy 68 never sent me the pics I requested so I basically done....again with my search. I do like having a real street machine that I don't have to be gentle with and is super fast.
Doesn't have the "wow" factor as a 68 would but that certainly isn't everything.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

raspantienator said:


> The guy with the burgandy 68 never sent me the pics I requested


There was more to that car than meets the eye. He knows you'd a discovered it and balked.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I hardly ever see any classic GTOs around here, my one buddy has a `69, but that`s about it, sept at the car shows, and even then, seeing another `65 is few and far between.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Thats my feeling too Judge. The Burgandy GT0 most likely had some issues the guy did not want to disclose. The one with the Tribute GTO was hot on the trail however, and even offered to fix the rust in the trunk. 
I will take your advice and wait for Saratoga to at least get some information and see some GTO's. 
I had mine out all day yesterday and had a blast. Had some guy in a 76 black Monte Carlo SS on my tail until I dropped to 3rd and gunned it. 

Then I had a 2002, Camaro convertable keeping pace behind me in the mountains. The car was beautiful. We just played a little and both had fun. 
Nice machines our GTO's are!!!!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Rukee said:


> I hardly ever see any classic GTOs around here, my one buddy has a `69, but that`s about it, sept at the car shows, and even then, seeing another `65 is few and far between.


 My buddy with the `69 called me last night, it`s been raining on and off for a week and more rain on the way. He called to tell me his goat was under water in the shed up to the top of the front seats!! I told him he better do what ever it takes to get his GTO out of that shed and onto higher ground. Still waiting on an update and a damage report. 1/3 of my backyard is under water too, but the GTO shed is high and dry for now.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

OMG! That is horrible for your friend and his GTO will need a lot of work once it dries out. Sounds like he'll have to leave it since he was unable to move it before the water rose as high as it is. His headliner is the only dry area for now....boy that is really bad.

Luckily for you, your GTO is on high ground. Do you have an emergency plan ready to go if the rain continues?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I just got off the phone with him. He pulled it out of the shed with a 4-wheeler and has it in the garage with the interior all pulled out already. He`s freakin, but it should be fine. He`s gunna get it dryed out right away, so I don`t think there will be any damage.
I`ll maybe try to take some pics of the water, it`s crazzy! Never seen it so deep. I`ve got no way to drive out of this part of town if it gets up to my shed door. :eek


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Flooding in no joke-my prayers are with you pal.

Glad you friend got his GTO out and prognosis sounds good.:cheers


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## Partsguru1 (May 21, 2007)

A thought to add...

There is a reason why any car nowadays that is under water is automatically totalled by almost all ins. companies. The water in your friends Goat will be beginning its work of corroding every single connector in the wiring, so I hope he's already taking the cars wiring out and drying those out. The dash will have to be pulled apart too. Man, just thinking about it makes you want to scream. What a nightmare. He'd be as well off to let his ins. company give him acheck for it and go looking for one that hasn't been swimming. If not, dry her out and sell that swimmer asap! 

'Guru


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Partsguru1 said:


> A thought to add...
> 
> There is a reason why any car nowadays that is under water is automatically totalled by almost all ins. companies. The water in your friends Goat will be beginning its work of corroding every single connector in the wiring, so I hope he's already taking the cars wiring out and drying those out. The dash will have to be pulled apart too. Man, just thinking about it makes you want to scream. What a nightmare. He'd be as well off to let his ins. company give him acheck for it and go looking for one that hasn't been swimming. If not, dry her out and sell that swimmer asap!
> 
> 'Guru


The car`s not totaled.  And the dash didn`t get wet. The only wiring to get wet was the flat ribbon harness under the seats and that`s all sealed up. If it had stayed wet for days or weeks and never dried out, then I would tend to agree with you, but it was wet for an hour at most and got dried out right away, little difference between what happened and washing out the inside of the car with soap and water with the interior out. As long as it gets dried and there is no standing water in the car, it`ll be fine.


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