# Traction control, still no traction :-)



## tummen (Aug 16, 2007)

T-C on (always) I was coming off the on-ramp of the highway near my house in wet conditions and accelerating in 3rd gear at wot from ~1500rpms. When hitting about 4000rpm the tail stepped out to the right and I made an unvoluntary sideways lanechange to the left lane before catching it!

I've owned my GTO (2006, M6, LT's and SLP455 tune) only this summer and normally drives like the mature person I am (hehe). My question is if there is anything wrong with the T-C, or if it is set that way? It is going to make one hell of an interesting winter in Stockholm if so!

/Tummen


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

If you want to make this a *REALLY* fun thread, just mention how much you love to turn OFF traction control, and GTO Judge will be in this thread quicker than you can finish editing your comment :lol: :cheers


Yea our cars don't get the best traction out there, but if your starting out at 1500 rpm on third, I'm guessing you should have no traction problems even on wet surfaces. HmMmmMmm.... Have you been smoking that wacky tire thread lately? Maybe theyre getting bald.


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## fasha (Aug 6, 2008)

hey all! i'm new here! i've gotta electric blue GTO just love it! but the traction control stinks!!  Are there any upgrades that could be done to improve the traction? i'm not only talking suspension and springs, i mean from a electronic point of u! 

Thanks !


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Aramz06 said:


> If you want to make this a *REALLY* fun thread, just mention how much you love to turn OFF traction control, and *GTO Judge will be in this thread quicker than you can finish editing your comment* :lol: :cheers
> 
> 
> Yea our cars don't get the best traction out there, but if your starting out at 1500 rpm on third, I'm guessing you should have no traction problems even on wet surfaces. HmMmmMmm.... Have you been smoking that wacky tire thread lately? Maybe theyre getting bald.


UH? It makes no matter to me if guys drive with the TC off. Some owners (particularly used car owners) don't fully understand this feature and put a driving thrill over safety which is fine under controlled conditions, not horsing around in traffic. What gets me is, guys complaining of stability control, lack of traction when needed, and not understanding why their car was wrecked when they turned the TC off and lost control in conditions when the TC was most needed. 

As far as getting no traction with the TC on.... how is the tread on the tires? The more the tread is worn the higher the risk of hydroplaning. If you are running the OEM 18"ers they are a summer tread and not designed for all season type performance. The car weighs 3K plus, once it gets swaying in the rear it takes some maneuverability to straighten her up. If you are losing traction and want to be certain the TC is functioning have your dealer verify its in working order.


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## hsv (Jun 11, 2007)

tummen said:


> T-C on (always) I was coming off the on-ramp of the highway near my house in wet conditions and accelerating in 3rd gear at wot from ~1500rpms. When hitting about 4000rpm the tail stepped out to the right and I made an unvoluntary sideways lanechange to the left lane before catching it!
> 
> I've owned my GTO (2006, M6, LT's and SLP455 tune) only this summer and normally drives like the mature person I am (hehe). My question is if there is anything wrong with the T-C, or if it is set that way? It is going to make one hell of an interesting winter in Stockholm if so!
> /Tummen


I'm curious how you found yourself in this situation. I normally accelerate going *onto* on-ramps, and if I am having fun, try to keep the RPMs above 3000 

When you accelerate going around a corner, part of your tires' "grip" goes into forward acceleration and part of it goes into lateral acceleration to going around a corner. The sum of the two has to remain constant, so if you accelerate in a corner, you don't have as much lateral grip and can't corner as tightly. Traction control can only control engine output as a function of how much forward slip there is between your wheels and the road. It has no clue about what your lateral slip is (you need accelerometers to detect this).

So, in short, TC can do nothing to help you if you accelerate around a corner too fast (accept control longitudinal wheel slip).

If you look at how race car drivers take corners, they tend to avoid high longitudinal acceleration in corners (i.e. WOT). The technique is mostly:

- Slow before turn in (rapidly -- i.e jam on the brakes)
- Apex at appropriate point
- Travel through corner at highest possible speed that doesn't induce slippage
- Accelerate after apex (rapidly -- i.e. floor it)

They take the corner at the fastest lateral acceleration they can so they can get it around it as quickly as possible. The only reason they accelerate in a corner is to induce slight oversteer to control the attitude of the car (can do this using trail braking as well). What you experienced was this.

They do blend the steps above a bit (but then they do this for a living .

I used to wonder the same thing about TC, until I started reading about it in preparation for competition driving. It is really eye opening when you start to read about this sort of stuff (and then watch the guys on NASCAR or F1).

Hope that answers your question.

HSV.

PS: I wouldn't recommend the technique above on public roads (in terms of rapid accelaration/deceleration -- that is just an accident waiting to happen!)


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

tummen said:


> T-C on (always) I was coming off the on-ramp of the highway near my house in wet conditions and accelerating in 3rd gear at wot from ~1500rpms. When hitting about 4000rpm the tail stepped out to the right and I made an unvoluntary sideways lanechange to the left lane before catching it!
> 
> I've owned my GTO (2006, M6, LT's and SLP455 tune) only this summer and normally drives like the mature person I am (hehe). My question is if there is anything wrong with the T-C, or if it is set that way? It is going to make one hell of an interesting winter in Stockholm if so!
> 
> /Tummen


Tman,
That is unfortunately normal for the GTO if conditions are right. TC on this car is a bit sloppy and doesn't come on under every lost traction condition. A couple goats in my area recently spun to destruction during summer thunder showers because of hydroplaning from standing water they ran into while traveling at reduced speed matching road conditions. They weren't even on the go juice pedal when the car kicked out, they just didn't have enough room to recover before hitting a stationary object. 

From what you described I had something similar happened to me the day I bought mine. During the ride home after a 3rd to 4th shift, the traffic light began to turn as I entered an intersection. I stepped down on the go pedal a bit too much in unison with letting the clutch out, little rain with some sleet mixed in, rear kicked to the left. Off the juice control and it snapped back into shape as quickly as it started going out. I have the 18's and do not drive it in the rain, opting to use a DD for inclement weather instead.

Driving a GTO thru a Stockholm winter, sounds like a horror show if you don't have the right tires and plenty of restraint with the pedal that acts like Thor's hammer..... or you might find yourself screaming, Valhalla!!!

Be safe my brother!
Red.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

The LS2 GTO's have alittle bit more slippage before the T/C intervines. I don't know why thats just what I've read. The T/C is a simple system hell watch the 5th Gear with the VXR 500 he is still sliding around with it on.


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## hsv (Jun 11, 2007)

I think I gave too much information in my previous post  What I meant was this:

- Floor it going around a corner and you can kick the rear out as much as you want
- Floor it going in a straight line (in the dry) and there is some slip, but not as much
- Floor it at any time in the wet and it's anyone's guess which way your tail is going to go 

Cheers,

HSV.


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## tummen (Aug 16, 2007)

hsv: well you pretty much summed it up at last  The conditions were wet asfalt, no rain and no standing water. The road was straight. I had just exited the on-ramp (howbout that  at the correct speed (~33mph) but got hard on it as the speedlimit changed just ahead. Straight road in 3rd at wot, and the car scared me a bit at 4000rpm. I have the 18s with good thread, but I gues the T/C is crap on these cars. Not that I mind right now that I know about it, but this winter........ maybe I should keep my saab?


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

sometimes that little bit of moisture is worse than standing water...it is enough to raise the oils from every vehicle that has passed before you and can make the surface quite slick...use caution but have fun...
Bill


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

hsv said:


> I think I gave too much information in my previous post  What I meant was this:
> 
> - Floor it going around a corner and you can kick the rear out as much as you want
> - Floor it going in a straight line (in the dry) and there is some slip, but not as much
> ...


Your right *HSV* the T/C is not Active Stablity control like what the Corvettes have.


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## htowngto04 (Aug 17, 2008)

I'd like to jump in this thread really quickly.. I have a 2004 GTO and about 95% of the time the T/C stays on like it is supposed to, unless I manually turn it off. However, every once in awhile, when I start it up, the T/C will be read "off " and will not let me turn it "on " unless I turn off the car and restart it. Any idea why this may be and what I can have done about it?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

htowngto04 said:


> I'd like to jump in this thread really quickly.. I have a 2004 GTO and about 95% of the time the T/C stays on like it is supposed to, unless I manually turn it off. However, every once in awhile, when I start it up, the T/C will be read "off " and will not let me turn it "on " unless I turn off the car and restart it. Any idea why this may be and what I can have done about it?


May be a misread from the BCM. Have the dealer check the code.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

they work great in the automatic's they suck in the manual's . that's all I got to say about that. shuttem offfffff........................


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

oh . I forgot to ask.. were you in somewhat of a corner ? this will mess with t/c cuz the posi will brake lose. sucks when it does but . thats life.


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