# Engine Removal Question



## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm preparing to remove the engine from my 1967 GTO convertible and I'm already running into some hangups. I purchased a cherry picker from Harbor Freight and got it assembled. Looks beefy but I tried a trial fit and the long arms on the cherry picker are tall enough that they hit the lower control arms on the car. It needs about an inch more clearance. 

Would it be ok to put the tires on some 2x6's to give me the inch I need?

I'm planning on using one of the engine lift plates you attach to the carb mount. Any advise on those? Any other tips would be great since it's been about 20 years since I've pulled an engine.

Thanks!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

can you extend the arm out a little more? if not a stand under each shock would do it but keep the jack handy to lower it once you get the motor hanging so you can clear the nose when rolling it out.


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

No sir, the boom is out all the way already. The problem with stands is that the arms on the picker are actually hitting the lower control arm right where the shocks are. It's a large picker since the smaller one didn't have a boom long enough.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Sounds like a beefy picker  As long as you've still got enough travel to clear the front of the car there shouldn't be any problems with raising it some to clear.

Be sure and use grade-8 bolts with grade-8 washers under their heads to secure that motor plate, and make sure they're the right length to get full thread engagement into the carb flange.

Bear


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

I'll make sure the bolts are grade 8 that was on my list. I never trust the hardware some of this import crap comes with. 

That brings me to my next question. Does anyone know the height above the hood level required to clear the engine? I'm pretty sure I have plenty of space in my garage and I plan on measuring everything before I start. However, if anyone has the requirements that would be helpful!

Bear, I'm going to have the work done on the engine at Kim Barr down in your neck of the woods. I'm getting the block to them next week to make sure everything is good to go and see how much bore it needs then we'll talk about parts.

What stroker kit do you guys like the most? Kauffman or Edelbrock heads?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Kim Barr did my machine work, and I also broke mine in on his dyno. Make sure you know which pistons you're going to use before you have him bore/hone the cylinders. My pistons needed an overbore from stock of +0.035.

I got my stroker kit from Jim Lehart - we spec'ed it out together. It's an Eagle crank, Eagle H-beam 6.800" rods, KB-Icon pistons that he custom dished for me, King rod bearings, FM main bearings, Hastings "race" rings. You can get pretty much all the details here:
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/rebuild461RG.html
...except for the heads I'm running now. (I'd still be running the #722's if one of them hadn't cracked on me).

Heads - I'm running Edelbrock 72'cc heads, but I probably would have been just as happy with Kauffman D-ports. They're both decent, but even better when ported by someone who knows what they're doing. Mine were done by Dave Wilcox at CVMS and they're works of art. The main thing is to buy them bare and then have your porter outfit them with the valves, springs, etc that he likes. You'll get much better results that way. The "complete" heads tend to come with, let's say, "inexpensive" hardware.
I went with the Edelbrocks mainly because the rest of the car was already set up for round port heads/exhaust. If it'd been a D-port car I would have probably gone with Kauffmans. I do like the chambers in the Kauffman heads a little better.

Bear


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

This thread is taking a different direction like I thought it might.

Is there an advantage of round port over D port? I had planned on D port. The car won't see the track and I want torque and HP to happen early rather than late on the build.

It will have a roller cam set up and repro RAM air manifolds. Not sure on the intake/carb yet it depends on how much things flow. Any advise?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

As long as we're talking aftermarket aluminum heads, there's not a huge difference. My car runs 11's with round port E-heads, there's a fellow Pontiac Club member who has a 67 with KRE D-ports who also runs 11's. 

On a car that's already set up for D-ports, I wouldn't hesitate to run the KRE's. Caveat: like I said earlier, regardless of the head I'd get them bare and have them "completed" by a head porter I trusted.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Put your car on the 2X6's and use a shorter throw on the beam. Also, pull the engine separated from the trans. I did the one on my '67 without pulling the hood...was able to pivot the engine sideways once out of the mounts to clear. Very tricky, though. (I didn't want to mess with the hood alignment). I never use a carb plate, myself, preferring to bolt the chain across the engine diagonally, from the rear of the passenger side head to the front of the driver's side head. Been doing this, literally, for decades. I would run D port aftermarket heads, as the round port limit your exhaust options. $$$$$$


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

I had planned on just pulling the engine and not the trans. I'll go ahead and take the hood off since I haven't done this job in a while and I don't need any extra distractions. What size chain/bolts/washers do you use for the job? I might just do that.

As far as heads go, what flow am I looking for in my street set up? Do any of them do it out of the box or is a little work required? What valve size/chamber size? If I'm getting bare heads then I'll need info on what goodies ya'll like.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

What I did with my heads was bought them bare, had them shipped directly to Dave at CVMS, then he worked his magic on them (including installing good valves, springs, etc), and sent them to me when they were ready.
I was able to do that and just leave the specific parts selection up to him because I trust him and Jim both.

Bear


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

That sounds like a good idea. Question for you Bear...does your engine pull enough vacuum at idle to run your brakes etc.? It looks like your set up is pretty close to what I'm wanting but I want it to have good street manners and not give me issues like sketchy brakes.

What do I need to tell these guys about my build at CVMS if I want to do what you did? Are these guys that much better than getting it done at the local shop in Garland?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

In my case it was a matter of how Jim treated me when we "met" and the general vibe I got from him initially, and then subsequently my experience with him all through the build. 
I talked with MANY people when I was planning everything out and Jim was the only one who was willing to go into detail, not only about the 'what' but also the 'why' behind it - before I ever decided to spend a nickel with him - and that's what sold me, and why I'm loyal to him to this day.

I got the machine work done by KB because he was local, had a good reputation as a race engine builder, and I could get the machining done without the expense and time involved in shipping everything to Virginia. I've also heard very good things about Wayne Calvert up around Denton but I have no first-hand experience myself.

With my cam (solid roller, 236/242 @ 0.050, 110 LSA) I was nervous enough about vacuum that I converted to a hydroboost brake system before I got the motor running. Mine makes around 13" of idle vacuum when it's warmed up, about 10-11 cold. To me that would be borderline for brakes, but I know some folks get by with that. 
I did 'roll your own' hydroboost by figuring out my own parts and then buying new from NAPA. Doing that resulted in me having about $500 in the whole system, top to bottom, which is about half what an 'off the shelf' complete system will cost so I figure I did ok. I can walk you through what I did if you choose to go that route.

Bear


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

Got the engine out with the tires on wood blocks. It was even easier than I remember from the last time I did it. I went ahead and used the chain bolted to the heads instead of the carb plate. I'll have it disassembled and ready to leave for the shop this evening!

Bear - I'd hate to replace brake parts since I just redid my whole brake system a few months ago. Maybe we can talk about different cam selection or some other way to get enough idle vacuum. I thought 13" would be more than plenty?


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