# 03/04Terminator Cobra/6.0L GTO



## 99slobra (Sep 14, 2007)

ive been to alot of sites that show alot of biast but after being here i can see that the biast is not so bad here so im gonna ask this here...ive been looking at GTO's hardcore and drove a few and i really love them but at the same time ive loved the terminators since they came out now that its time to get a new car i cant decide which to go with...take in mind im gonna mod the crap out of whatever i get...its just that i think the gto is more affordable...i guess what im looking for is what people have encountered between the two or their honest to God opinions without biast....can somebody please help me i need to know soon!!! thank you


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

1. There's no "t" at the end of "bias".

2. Terminator Cobras and GTO's cost about the same, mileage-equal, with the Cobras actually being a touch cheaper..

3. Realize that really the ONLY thing a Terminator Cobra does well is go stinking fast... If that's your only priority, then you may not care that the platform is archaic and dates back to the 1978 Ford Fairmont.. the build-quality and panel fit awful.. ingress/egress gawdawful... limited front-seat leg-room... flimsy structure and rigidity (relatively speaking, using today's modern standards)... cheap/plasticy/dated interior... The GTO is far superior in all these aspects, especially in the interior..

4. If you drove the Cobra and the GTO back to back, you'd find the GTO to be a far more refined, buttoned-down, tighter and more comfortable car... The Cobra would just be faster in a straight-line, stock vs. stock..

5. Bang for the buck, especially when you start modding?? Huge advantage to the Terminator... The blower is already factory-installed, so going disgustingly fast is a fairly inexpensive and straightforward process of increasing the boost, headers/exhaust, some intake mods, and you're so deep into the 11's you can't keep the car planted on a public road... With the GTO you're starting out with 400 h.p. naturally aspirated, but you're a touch heavier I think. You've got to add a blower/turbo (expensive), or really build-up your LS2 (expensive), to keep pace with the cheap to get into the 11's Cobra... I think it'd be more expensive to run identical times as a Terminator with mods, unless you're open to simply doing a good NO2 system...


So if all you care about in a car is bragging rights at the drag-strip, and you want to accomplish it the cheapest way possible, Terminator...

If you want a car that can go equally as fast, but may require a bit more cash infusion, but is a far superior all-around-car for the other 99% of the time you're not racing it to death.... GTO...

I own a few Cobras and my GTO, so no bias here...


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## mynameiswazy (May 25, 2007)

:agree 

On top of all that, the mustang makes a really crappy daily driver. The clutch is heavy as hell, and after test driving a Mach One, I would never, ever, ever consider that generation mustang.


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## Tacmedic (Feb 24, 2006)

*Man...*

..That was really hard to read. Did you type that on your phone?


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

mynameiswazy said:


> :agree
> 
> On top of all that, the mustang makes a really crappy daily driver. The clutch is heavy as hell, and after test driving a Mach One, I would never, ever, ever consider that generation mustang.



Yeah, ever since the S197 Mustang came out, the old SN95 cars seem like horse-drawn buggies... Very antiquated and poor-riding, uncomfortable throwbacks... Not to draw any GM ire, but the old F-bodies likewise were getting pretty sorry, i.e. long in the tooth...

As time and technology marches ahead, old platforms that you used to think were the cat's pajamas, slowly become the cat's litterbox... And you have to start appreciating them more for what they WERE than for what they ARE, and let nostalgia and memories help keep the grin on your face.. And that's a good thing too... When you drive an older car, the shortcomings become "personality" and "character", and you enjoy the drive for a whole different set of reasons.... :cheers


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## 99slobra (Sep 14, 2007)

the reason i want a gto is because not only performance but it has a type of 
luxury feel when i drove them...something the terminator does not have...i 
currently have a cobra and am a cobra fanatic but ive been feeling like its 
time to move past the God-awful interior and poor ride and go to something that is a little more comfortable but still has power on hand if i want it...i think i may just be having a hard time letting go of my beloved cobra...i know stock for stock they run similar times but as for modding im sure you know what youre talking about...i know the cobras take well to mods and i dont know much about the 6.0L motors...anyone else got anything ?


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

Tacmedic said:


> ..That was really hard to read. Did you type that on your phone?


*spits out cereal*


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

we do have useable back seats.:cheers


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Drivin both; got my ass handed to me by more than one s/c Cobra. But as a daily driver, the Goat wins. My .2.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Tacmedic said:


> ..That was really hard to read. Did you type that on your phone?


General rule of thumb: If you have take more than 20 breaths to finish a sentence, it's too long. 

My daughter types everything lower case as well, but she does know her punctuation.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

69bossnine said:


> When you drive an older car, the shortcomings become "personality" and "character", and you enjoy the drive for a whole different set of reasons.... :cheers


You mean like trying to high speed panic stop with manual drum brakes with a single piston master cylinder?


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

cobra is a fast car with a soild rear end which will have better traction than us goat heads. now the snake will not stand out on the street cause of the "got to have it" factor. not many goats on the road and it will have folks turning heads and asking you about your "grand prix":lol: i was looking at getting a stang back in 04. but not much room and the seats were not great. you will be out a lot of cash if you " mod the hell out it" (goat) so i ask you how deep are you pockets?


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Rukee said:


> You mean like trying to high speed panic stop with manual drum brakes with a single piston master cylinder?


Exactly.... I drove my '67 H.O. 4-speed in to work this morning.... manual drums.... always think ahead....


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## 99slobra (Sep 14, 2007)

EEZ GOAT said:


> cobra is a fast car with a soild rear end which will have better traction than us goat heads. now the snake will not stand out on the street cause of the "got to have it" factor. not many goats on the road and it will have folks turning heads and asking you about your "grand prix":lol: i was looking at getting a stang back in 04. but not much room and the seats were not great. you will be out a lot of cash if you " mod the hell out it" (goat) so i ask you how deep are you pockets?


the back seats are one thing i really like and i like the fact that you dont see many goats...with the cobra, many people do not even realize that there are differences in mustangs, camaros, corvettes etc...they think a mustang is a mustang, a camaro is a camaro so on and so forth...they dont realize that there are gts cobras saleen, z28 ss....ive met more than my share of people who are like that and i guess if theyre ok living like that, then so be it...thats why the goat is appealing to me, the exclusiveness...also people keep telling me the cobras are cheaper to buy than an 05 m6 gto and im finding the exact opposite...maybe im lookin in the wrong places?


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

99slobra said:


> but at the same time ive loved the terminators since they came out now that its time to get a new car i cant decide which to go with


 go with what you dreamed of owning. i did after getting the goat and got a 92 fox body. i enjoy driving the fox more than driving the goat although the goat might be better as far as quality goes


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Ask yourself what do you want out of the car. Do this, when I have a hard time deciding what I want, I make a Pro's/Con's chart but take your time. Do that, if the pros outweigh the cons go with that. Do you want a car that is confortable on the street and hauls tail at the strip, or do you want one that will mostly get you by at the strip. From what I seen well taken care of 03/04 Cobras are more expensive than any year GTO.


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## 99slobra (Sep 14, 2007)

gm4life said:


> Ask yourself what do you want out of the car. Do this, when I have a hard time deciding what I want, I make a Pro's/Con's chart but take your time. Do that, if the pros outweigh the cons go with that. Do you want a car that is confortable on the street and hauls tail at the strip, or do you want one that will mostly get you by at the strip. From what I seen well taken care of 03/04 Cobras are more expensive than any year GTO.


i seem to be finding that cobras are more expensive also...i have made a pros and cons chart and both cars come out equally, except for the goat being less expensive and is all-in-all just plain nicer car...but from what i hear, although my research proves not so conclusive, the terminators are a faster straight line car...and the fact that they have the factory blower...this is actually stressing me out because they are both great cars and id love to have either


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I really don't think you could go wrong with either car. 

I would watch for a car that was modded and put back to stock on the Cobra. You might buy it and find it was beaten to within an inch of it's life. 

By the way EEZ, the Cobra has an independent rear suspension just like the GTO. For some reason ($$$$$$) Ford did away with that on the GT500. A lot of guys that race the Cobras tend to swap a solid rear back into theirs. 

I think what I would do is search for both cars. Write down the top 5 or 6 that match everything you want (miles, price, options, colors) and then go drive them. One of them will turn out to be a real good deal and whichever it is buy it. 

Again, you can't go wrong with either car. Most of the people here lean towards the GTO and it's refinement, but they are both stupid fast and can be made crazy stupid fast pretty easily. Oh, it's always fun to say to a Mustang guy, "I like Cobra's, they taste just like chicken" when your driving a GTO.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

> By the way EEZ, the Cobra has an independent rear suspension just like the GTO. For some reason ($$$$$$) Ford did away with that on the GT500. A lot of guys that race the Cobras tend to swap a solid rear back into theirs.



did not know that. thx for the info.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

fergyflyer said:


> For some reason ($$$$$$) Ford did away with that on the GT500. A lot of guys that race the Cobras tend to swap a solid rear back into theirs.


A solid rear axle is stronger and cheaper than an IRS. I seen Mustangs with IRS at the track on street tires break the rear end. IMO I don't think a IRS will help the GT500.


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## bg2m8o (Jul 25, 2006)

^ It'll help it when the twisties get bumpy. Solid axles have a nasty habit known as bump-steer. Well tuned designs minimize this but they will always be strapped with very high (relative to IRS) unsprung weight. A high performance daily driver must have IRS. A dragster, not-so-much.

The 03/04 Cobras are NICE and they run like scalded apes. It is not a refined GT car by any stretch. The GTO has the waterfront covered in this area. It too is stupid fast and for as heavy as it is handles very well. The limits are not sky high, but it has impecable manners and is very forgiving. Oversteer is a right foot away, virtually regardless of gear due to the monster torque of its larger powerplant. 

It sounds WAY better too. Magical noise emanates from the factory duals.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

bg2m8o said:


> ^ It'll help it when the twisties get bumpy. Solid axles have a nasty habit known as bump-steer. Well tuned designs minimize this but they will always be strapped with very high (relative to IRS) unsprung weight. A high performance daily driver must have IRS. A dragster, not-so-much.


I hate to hijack this mans thread but bump-steer has nothing to do with the rear suspension unless you steer with your rear wheels. 
And the reason why I said the IRS is not good idea for the GT500 is because it will easly over power it with a few mods and it adds too much weight for a car that is almost two tons.
end hijack....


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

gm4life said:


> I hate to hijack this mans thread but bump-steer has nothing to do with the rear suspension unless you steer with your rear wheels.
> And the reason why I said the IRS is not good idea for the GT500 is because it will easly over power it with a few mods and it adds too much weight for a car that is almost two tons.
> end hijack....



First of all I think either car will server you well. I have both. Now gm4life, I am not sure why an IRS will be easily over powered. I see a lot of threads on this issue. How do you reconcile cars that put out more HP being IRS. Beginning with the C6 Z06? Is it the weight of the car or the power that it puts down that will cause the over power? 

Do explain your reason, I am not sure weight is a good answer. Most F1 race cars are IRS, while most NASCAR cars are SRA go figure!


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

bg2m8o said:


> ^ It'll help it when the twisties get bumpy. Solid axles have a nasty habit known as bump-steer. Well tuned designs minimize this but they will always be strapped with very high (relative to IRS) unsprung weight. A high performance daily driver must have IRS. A dragster, not-so-much.
> 
> The 03/04 Cobras are NICE and they run like scalded apes. It is not a refined GT car by any stretch. The GTO has the waterfront covered in this area. It too is stupid fast and for as heavy as it is handles very well. The limits are not sky high, but it has impecable manners and is very forgiving. Oversteer is a right foot away, virtually regardless of gear due to the monster torque of its larger powerplant.
> 
> It sounds WAY better too. Magical noise emanates from the factory duals.


 i don't want to hop on the "jump on gm4life" bandwagon but i agree with bg2m8o. i'd love to challenge you to take a ride in my fox which has a far stiffer suspension that the gto but around turns and bumpy roads it doesn't do as well. and that's not applying much to any gas pedal. now the gto it really takes a good bit more to break it loose in the same turns although a leadfoot does that easily. as far as strength between the sra and irs in the 03/04 termis i'd say it's probably the same since they both use the 8.8 ring gear and pinion set up since a mighty long time. now once the axle tubes are welded and one starts upping the axles then the sra become slightly stronger due to the availability of parts. you will face the same thing with gto irs parts. stub axles have a limit of 1000 rhwp or at least that's the highest i have seen advertised. so 99slobra if you do get the termi and you want to get rid of the irs i have a sra if you want. they'll swap out pretty easily and mine is a limited slip. what ever you choose termi or goat let us know and don't be bashful.:cheers


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

patisi said:


> I have both. Now gm4life, I am not sure why an IRS will be easily over powered. I see a lot of threads on this issue. How do you reconcile cars that put out more HP being IRS. Beginning with the C6 Z06? Is it the weight of the car or the power that it puts down that will cause the over power?
> 
> Do explain your reason, I am not sure weight is a good answer. Most F1 race cars are IRS, while most NASCAR cars are SRA go figure!


Ok I'm gonna say this one more time that has allready been covered. Watch out now opinion comming. The IRS is more prone to brakeage if you have wheel hop, and sticky tires with a high horsepowerd car example dragracing. Like I said before I seen Mustangs at the dragstip break there IRS because factory stuff won't handle it. Just like what was said above Mustang guys swapped out their IRS to live axle. Also I do think weight combined with more torque has a part to play on the longevity of stock IRS, Corvette with 800hp will last longer than a GT500 thats around 4000lbs with 800hp a stock IRS won't last. The last time I checked you don't see expensive NASCAR and F-1 parts on a production car it will cost too much. And when is the last time you seen a F1 car and a NASCAR at the drag strip also they are lighter than production cars and have more money put into them. Now I did not say that you can't have a fast IRS car because aftermarket parts is available for our cars.

I am done with this; it is getting way off topic. Peace.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

koman said:


> i'd love to challenge you to take a ride in my fox which has a far stiffer suspension that the gto but around turns and bumpy roads it doesn't do as well.


I owned a 84 WS6 T/A so I know what your talking about when it comes to stiff suspension.


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## 99slobra (Sep 14, 2007)

koman said:


> i don't want to hop on the "jump on gm4life" bandwagon but i agree with bg2m8o. i'd love to challenge you to take a ride in my fox which has a far stiffer suspension that the gto but around turns and bumpy roads it doesn't do as well. and that's not applying much to any gas pedal. now the gto it really takes a good bit more to break it loose in the same turns although a leadfoot does that easily. as far as strength between the sra and irs in the 03/04 termis i'd say it's probably the same since they both use the 8.8 ring gear and pinion set up since a mighty long time. now once the axle tubes are welded and one starts upping the axles then the sra become slightly stronger due to the availability of parts. you will face the same thing with gto irs parts. stub axles have a limit of 1000 rhwp or at least that's the highest i have seen advertised. so 99slobra if you do get the termi and you want to get rid of the irs i have a sra if you want. they'll swap out pretty easily and mine is a limited slip. what ever you choose termi or goat let us know and don't be bashful.:cheers


i might take you up on that...my current cobra, the 99, just had the whole rear end grenade on me...i was at a stop light, it turned green, i hammered it, did some wheel hopping and POWWWWWWWW....just like that i ate $1500...so im not real fond of the damned irs...although it is nice to have when flying on an onramp...the sra and irs both have their pros and cons...its just easier to forget the pros i think because you dont take time to notice them as much...


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Regarding IRS vs. straight, with street tires, I've been very fond of the IRS cars I've owned in the past at the drag-strip, as long as they're properly dialed-in dampened to eliminate wheel-hop... The IRS on my '93 C4 Corvette was the best... strong as an oxe, NO wheel-hop, and the car transferred and squatted like crazy which really planted the big rear rubber well for consistent sub-2-second 60-foot times on the stock GS-C's... I ran a 13.30 @ 107 in that car, new with only 1,700 miles on it, with the paper filter still in the stock air-box... The LT1 in that car had to have been on the highest-end of the horsepower deviation..

But anyhow, usually a good IRS allows the engineers to run a softer more compliant setup in the back, which is more conducive to weight transfer.. I am VERY MUCH seeing this in my GTO, the sucker lifts the nose and plants the rear tires like crazy, I'm surprised at how much traction I'm getting from weenie 245's...

Straight-axle fox and SN95 Mustangs spin like crazy without chassis mods, especially the foxes, as they are so weak structurally that they twist and favor one rear wheel over the other...


Lastly, I really don't think 03-04 Cobras are more expensive than GTO's, I think that owners are simply ASKING more because Cobra owners are so locked-in on the "implied collectibility" of anything SVT... They can ask whatever the hell they want... That doesn't mean people are PAYING that... Alot of Terminator cars I see for sale, are for sale for a damn long time, as the owner is mistakenly thinking he's got a collectible, not understanding that the market is kinda saturated still...

If you decide you want a Terminator, be patient, don't pay a high price.. Also, alot of the cars out there are convertibles, which is apples/oranges... If the GTO came in a rag-top, then you could compare prices..

A good friend of mine sold his Terminator convertible last year... Loaded-up car, even had the polished wheels, with only 3,400 miles on the clock, fully show-detailed underneath and under the hood, 100% bone-stock-never-raced... It took him months to unload it, and he finally got $27K for it... For a convertible, with that kind of mileage, I'm not thinking that's more expensive than what you'd pay for a 3,400 mile '06 GTO all things relative..


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## bg2m8o (Jul 25, 2006)

gm4life said:


> I hate to hijack this mans thread but bump-steer has nothing to do with the rear suspension unless you steer with your rear wheels.
> And the reason why I said the IRS is not good idea for the GT500 is because it will easly over power it with a few mods and it adds too much weight for a car that is almost two tons.
> end hijack....


My bad - Roll Steer is the correct term


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

bg2m8o said:


> My bad - Roll Steer is the correct term


Its all good, I could not think of the correct term myself.:cheers


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

gm4life said:


> Ok I'm gonna say this one more time that has allready been covered. Watch out now opinion comming. The IRS is more prone to brakeage if you have wheel hop, and sticky tires with a high horsepowerd car example dragracing. Like I said before I seen Mustangs at the dragstip break there IRS because factory stuff won't handle it. Just like what was said above Mustang guys swapped out their IRS to live axle. Also I do think weight combined with more torque has a part to play on the longevity of stock IRS, Corvette with 800hp will last longer than a GT500 thats around 4000lbs with 800hp a stock IRS won't last. The last time I checked you don't see expensive NASCAR and F-1 parts on a production car it will cost too much. And when is the last time you seen a F1 car and a NASCAR at the drag strip also they are lighter than production cars and have more money put into them. Now I did not say that you can't have a fast IRS car because aftermarket parts is available for our cars.
> 
> I am done with this; it is getting way off topic. Peace.


I still dont see where you state why IRS is or may be weaker than SRA. Its the same arguments I have seen in the past no susbstance to the statements. Is there something in the design of an IRS that makes it inherently weaker than an SRA, or is it the cheap materails the mfg use that cause the breakage at the tracks? That is my question to you. If it is the materials being cheaper then the question is moot. If it is the design then tell us why you say it is the design. Dont tell me what others have said above. Simply prove your point, and support it with science.


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## bondosGTO (Sep 5, 2007)

what it really comes down to is" IRS have U-joints which are naturally more weaker. how many U-joints have people snapped over the years? also the number of splines on the axles determine how strong it is. more splines= more surface area=more torque it can hold. also, more moving parts, or added parts more likely to go wrong. you get the pricture, personallyi'll take my IRS any day. but also i do not plan on doing a bunch of drag racing, i will use mine and more of a cruiser.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

patisi said:


> I still dont see where you state why IRS is or may be weaker than SRA. Its the same arguments I have seen in the past no susbstance to the statements. Is there something in the design of an IRS that makes it inherently weaker than an SRA, or is it the cheap materails the mfg use that cause the breakage at the tracks? That is my question to you. If it is the materials being cheaper then the question is moot. If it is the design then tell us why you say it is the design. Dont tell me what others have said above. Simply prove your point, and support it with science.


You hit the nail on the head. Most IRS axle designs are't made as strong. I'm not sure why. Another issue is that the components are suspended differently leading to less unsprung weight. This allows designers to make a softer suspension which leads to better handling and to wheel hop. Wheel hop leads to broken axles. Even if the rear end will withstand 1000 RWHP, if you get wheel hop and have 500hp your testing the limits of the design. That's why the drag bags are so important if you are going to do any serious drag racing in a GTO. You inflate them and stiffen the suspension and your wheel hop virtually disappears. 

Drag bags are not as important in a Corvette because the suspension is stiffer and especially because the car is lighter. Corvette's still get axle hop if you don't know what you are doing and that just about always leads to broken axles. Vipers are the same deal. They stiffened the rear suspension considerably this year with the addition of 90 hp. The engineers were really concerned about the broken axle issue.


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

fergyflyer said:


> You hit the nail on the head. Most IRS axle designs are't made as strong. I'm not sure why. Another issue is that the components are suspended differently leading to less unsprung weight. This allows designers to make a softer suspension which leads to better handling and to wheel hop. Wheel hop leads to broken axles......


OK Ferg makes more sense to me now, with cheaper materials and design, maybe GM will ship the cars with drag bags in the future. Let me know the next time you in the Edwards AFB area again in your car, maybe we'll do some runs at Willow Springs in your C6 vs My '05 Goat or '04 Cobra, its getting cooler here I am beginning to stretch their legs out more.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

patisi said:


> I still dont see where you state why IRS is or may be weaker than SRA. Its the same arguments I have seen in the past no susbstance to the statements. Is there something in the design of an IRS that makes it inherently weaker than an SRA, or is it the cheap materails the mfg use that cause the breakage at the tracks? That is my question to you. If it is the materials being cheaper then the question is moot. If it is the design then tell us why you say it is the design. Dont tell me what others have said above. Simply prove your point, and support it with science.


I guess you really did not read my post vary carefully because below Fergyflyer said pretty much the same thing I said and you understood. I was simply stating that most IRS systems from the factory is not good for intense drag racing and we gave you examples. I don't have to prove anything to you because I spent time at the dragstrip and I seen people brake IRS with modded cars, open your eyes and see that not only the Mustang had problems but the CTS-V does too. Now that you keep adding fuel to the fire just let it go if you don't understand it, you are the only one debating me with this tired old subject. Just squash it will you.


fergyflyer said:


> You hit the nail on the head. Most IRS axle designs are't made as strong. I'm not sure why. Another issue is that the components are suspended differently leading to less unsprung weight. This allows designers to make a softer suspension which leads to better handling and to wheel hop. Wheel hop leads to broken axles. Even if the rear end will withstand 1000 RWHP, if you get wheel hop and have 500hp your testing the limits of the design.


Thanks, I guess I'm not that good getting my point across.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

99slobra said:


> ive loved the terminators since they came out now that its time to get a new car i cant decide which to go with...take in mind im gonna mod the crap out of whatever i get...its just that i think the gto is more affordable


My dream car was an 03/04 cobra. Since they first came out in 2003 when I was 15 it was my favorite car. GTOs didn't come out till 04. My dad was ready to buy a brand new GTO in 04 at the time when they came out. I also like the GTOs but all I wanted was an 03 cobra. I am 19 now and have owned a couple of cars including a 99 and an 01 cobra. I was looking at an 03cobra for about $21000, the whole side had been painted and the trans was noisy and carfax stated it had body damage with 37,000 miles(a perfect 03 cobra would have been about $24000). He wouldn't move off of $21000, so I didn't buy it. Well I am friends with a mechanic for Pontiac dealership and he is selling his 2004 GTO mint with 17,000 miles 6-speed. All original paint, it was Perfect(except for custom hood). He had also done mods to it too. It has 421 bobcat kit, SAP wing, lowered, black power coated wheels, custom cowl hood, shifter,intake, and he had taken it to New York to have it dyno tuned. I drove it home to see if I like it. Couldn't sleep that nite b/c I just wanted to get up and drive it some more lol. The next day I handed him a check for only $15,000, which was a great deal. The car drives and handles so much better than an 03/04 cobra, not to say that there bad cars b/c I still like them, but I had a new favorite car after just one test drive. I dont think I'll ever sell it at this point. I love my GTO alot. I work for a dealer and of course right after I get my GTO after wanting a cobra so long, they get one in stock. But I drove and it just doesnt do anything for me now. Also here is a link to an 04 cobra vs an 04 GTO:http://images.google.com/imgres?img...per&start=60&ndsp=20&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&sa=N


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