# Judge going under the knife



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Calling around today inquiring on pricing for rebuilding my Turbo 400 and replacing the rear main seal. Figured this will be my next project in the fall.

Called a Performance transmission place locally (they work on performance cars). Was quoted 595 to tear tranny out and rebuild. I don't believe anything is wrong with it but the leaking is getting worse and I have a shift cable to put on even though the one on now is working fine but is slightly off when in "R-D-1-2". So I ask; while ya got the tranny out what ya want to put the rear main seal in? 350+ the seal and oil pan seal. I said NO ROPE seal... NO problem.... Needless to say... FORK next fall lets do it this MONDAY. Said I will have it back by the weekend. 

I got quotes as high as 1200 to rebuild tranny and 850 to replace the seal. I was shocked at the this quote. I was told I can come watch them do it if I want. 
Now I have read what the "best" seal is.. but what do you guys recommend?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I used the one from Best Gasket Co. I bought mine on ebay. Below is the info from their site. Also, Viton gaskets are really good from what I've heard.

GraphTite™ rope seals are miles ahead of any other rope seal out there.

This marvelous material is easy to trim. . . and it seals!! To ensure exact trimming, each kit includes installation instructions, a special knife, and a few other trimming aids.

Our customers have reported great success with GraphTite™ rope seals, finally solving those aggravating rear main seal leaks. No hype here. . . just results.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

For $350, I'm betting you'll get the Viton seal installed with the engine in the car. They can't install the rope seal unless the engine is upside down and the crank out.
Cost of trans rebuild sounds too low to get high quality parts. They will most likely install the generic fabric clutches. Might want to inquire as to the parts and see if there is an upgrade available. If they can git-r-done with quality parts for that price, more power to them....:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

They said they'll jack the motor up not remove it. I planned on verifying parts etc in the trans. When I mentioned Turbo 400 he said hes done many he knows all about them he says. I'll be inquiring about the parts he plans on using.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I can't see your Judge ever getting slicks and strip abuse. A good stock rebuild w/shift kit will last forever on a turbo 400. You are getting the work done because of old gaskets, not for performance, so hopefully they can do the work on the cheap and you can be happy. I said shift kit just because chirping second is cool..


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

The Vitron is the gasket just about everyone is recommending. 
Until I get the rear gears reduced to about 3:55 which is my plan, these 4:10's tear up. Can't wait to see the pep after the rebuild.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

VITON rear seal! The leak is probably from the front pump of the trans (very common) I had my TH 400 taken out, flushed, resealed, new mod. valve, new filter , re-installed ---$500. I was told that other than the leaks, the tranny was in great shape and not to FORK with it. I listened to the guy, as he has a great reptation in my area. That was 2 years ago, and still fine!!:cheers Eric


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Eric Animal said:


> VITON rear seal! The leak is probably from the front pump of the trans (very common) I had my TH 400 taken out, flushed, resealed, new mod. valve, new filter , re-installed ---$500. I was told that other than the leaks, the tranny was in great shape and not to FORK with it. I listened to the guy, as he has a great reptation in my area. That was 2 years ago, and still fine!!:cheers Eric


I called and told them that is the seal I want. They are currently rebuilding a '68 Turbo 400. She goes to the shop Fri. Supposed to rain all weekend and most of next week... par for the course so far this spring is ... daja vu' 2009. 

Yup the leak runs down the front of the tranny when I drive it sprays the underside of the car. The flywheel shroud is always oily. I'm hoping the trans is ok it drives fine shifts fine but ya never know till ya cut it open.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I called and told them that is the seal I want. They are currently rebuilding a '68 Turbo 400. She goes to the shop Fri. Supposed to rain all weekend and most of next week... par for the course so far this spring is ... daja vu' 2009.
> 
> Yup the leak runs down the front of the tranny when I drive it sprays the underside of the car. The flywheel shroud is always oily. I'm hoping the trans is ok it drives fine shifts fine but ya never know till ya cut it open.


Send some rain over here, we've been dry since Feb....................

Did you run out of cardboard??!!:lol: I just put a clean sheet down.....

Sounds like we have the same leak. I did have my tranny rebuilt about 7 years ago, so I'm assuming my seals are fine. I do have a 4 spd, however. Cost $1k to have it rebuilt. I think autos are supposed to be cheaper. Just dug out the invoice. I see I paid $250 for a used tranny. Replaced a gear all bearings and syncros. Probably should have paid a little extra and bought a new one. Next time..........

Let us know how it all turns out.........


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

68greengoat said:


> Send some rain over here, we've been dry since Feb....................
> 
> Did you run out of cardboard??!!:lol: I just put a clean sheet down.....
> 
> ...


CARDBOARD????? ROFLMAOOOOOOOOO:lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Oh yea 3 long sheets under the car and about 6 in waiting. 
I am told the tranny is original to the car I'd kinda like to keep it even though its the only mechanical part that is. :willy:

I inspected the flywheel last year and the teeth are rounded over as a result of whomever installed the starter never shimmed it and it was grinding at various times. They are gonna look it over and if it stands to be replaced why not.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I inspected the flywheel last year and the teeth are rounded over as a result of whomever installed the starter never shimmed it and it was grinding at various times. They are gonna look it over and if it stands to be replaced why not.


Good call, flexplates are only $50 or so.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

**UPDATE**

Oh the joys of fixing one thing and it leads to another and to another and to another and to...........

Transmission: I get a call to come take a look at the guts. Many burned parts, bands and burn marks on gears. Some shade tree mechanic got his lunch hooks on the internal workings and.... Installed an incorrect torque converter which... was 3/16" off that was twisting the flex plate which caused the the teeth on the flex plate to round over. When I purchased the car the starter was making a metal to metal screeching sound when the car was started with the traditional grind at times. Solution at that time: Shim the starter, took 3 thick shims to stop the sounds and the grinding, this turned out was compensating for the gap. The torque converter being it was short and not seating into the back of the block was chewing up the round port the torque converter is to seat in. I am asked did you notice a vibration when driving? I say no actually the car drove fine, well look here... the transmission was sitting on the cross member, whomever had it out never put isolators on the ends of the cross member. They installed the brackets but with NO isolators the transmission was vibrating on the cross member. 

The blackening of the parts was attributed to down and up-sifting at the wrong RPMs keep in mind this car has no dual-gate shifter but was drivin like it had one. Lack of lubrication and incorrect shifting beat the $hit out of it. Plus lack of lubrication took its tole on some parts. In late 1970 I am told some parts were changed and those parts were not as good as the early parts, somone mixed new and old parts together. Whomever worked on the trans didn't know what they were doing as some parts were missing. The seals were ready to let loose, it was leaking pretty bad, Trans is all rebuilt with a 12 month 12K mile warranty, I am told this thing will kick ass. It was rebuilt to TH400 specs. 

OK while ya got the trans out lets do the rear main seal... I get a call come on down we want to show you some things and don't want to remove them till you see what we found... OK,, so now my wallet is getting nauseous.... 

Your passing gear cable is melted, your speedo cable is partially melted, some idiot had them tucked up too close to the exhaust pipes, I touch the passing gear cable and it just breaks apart, same with a portion of the speedo cable, OK lets order them.... I tell them it just started leaking oil in the front of the motor.. I get another call, come on back... Uh oh.. now F-in what? Took the nut off the harmonic balancer and the balancer all but fell off. Call was made to the local Pontiac dealer and low and behold they had one. While you're here push on the timing chain tell me what ya think, I think its so floppy loose it needs replaced, yea it does and the housing as it was chewing up the inside of the housing.. Well ya may as well replace the water and fuel pumps while you're at it. I was told lets hope the crank shaft was not damaged from the wobbling from the balancer, your bearings aren't looking too good from here but we'll take a closer look. OK so now my ire is growing. 

I get another call,, come on back want to show ya something... NOW F-in what??? Oil pan... someone welded a hole on it painted it and water got behind the paint and surface rust took its tole. Ya need one. **@@[email protected]##$$!! I say how bout bead blasting it... OK, I get another call.. I go look at it,,,, hole is now through, 3 other pin holes became visible and it was so flimsy and the metal so thin you can almost poke your finger through it.

So then it was determined, the rear main seal was fine, no leaking, I said well the vitron seal is here may as well put it in. So the reason for fixing the oil leaking was not what I thought. The oil pan was in that sad a shape it was flexing and oil was shooting out the top and coating everything and running everywhere. 

What was to be a 4 day job is now going to go into its 3rd week. Waiting on parts has held things up, car up in the air motor jacked up can't move it. I am at about 2K and climbing now. Not bad for a quote for 1100. 

Oh the joys of the unknown... Crank looks good bearings look good, plenty of oil pressure, before going in for surgery, doesn't blow smoke, if I had another 2K I'd rebuild the motor but it all is well with what is left..... until that next phone call.... 

Whats amazing is: The car screamed before I took it in, ran great I just babied it cause of the age and leaking I didn't want to cause more pressure on seals than necessary and didn't want to rebuild for a while yet. I can't wait to see how this thing flies now.

The jacka$$ who toyed with the transmission had no full clue what he was doing, the guy rebuilding it just shook his head at what he found. 

I think the trans is original to the car. How do you verify this with the vin? I looked at the PHS documents but I can't tell. The year and trans code is right there I looked at vin and its not even close. ???


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

That's what ya call*sequences*. I thought I was the only guy to chase a nickel part in the front bumper all the way to the 10k total at the rear.....:willy:

Seriously, you will probably love it when it comes back. 
As far as the number on the trans, it should match the unit number on the PHS, not the VIN.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Too Many Projects said:


> That's what ya call*sequences*. I thought I was the only guy to chase a nickel part in the front bumper all the way to the 10k total at the rear.....:willy:
> 
> Seriously, you will probably love it when it comes back.
> As far as the number on the trans, it should match the unit number on the PHS, not the VIN.


I thought it to be the unit number which is the last 5 numbers of the VIN and on the data plate but then not exactly sure as the numbers are not the same. Oh well....


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## BillGTO (Oct 16, 2009)

I have had the same experience on my (everything)cars and toys of different varieties. Sounds like when I get to the point of replacing my rear main on my 67 I will drive from Bucks county to your guy!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Judge, you just gave me another reason to use thick engine oil and some of that Rear Main Seal sealant. I'm afraid if they tore into mine, they might find some of the same issues. No, right now, "I can't handle the truth"..... Like Mitch said, "you'll probably love it when it comes back". At least if you don't think about the $$. Just keep in mind, "might as well spend 'er now, because you can't take it with ya"................


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

keep repeating...my car will be done soon, my car will be done soon...sorry to hear of your woes with the elder Judge...go for a lone ride in Judge the younger and tell yourself...my car will be done soon...!
Bill


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Judge, I feel for you. Hell of a story! Better to fix it now than have major failure on the side of the road, or have the pan blow and dump all the fluid while driving, or sling the balancer or timing chain, blah blah blah. It sounds like you have a really good mechanic, that's a good thing.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

BillGTO said:


> I have had the same experience on my (everything)cars and toys of different varieties. Sounds like when I get to the point of replacing my rear main on my 67 I will drive from Bucks county to your guy!


Bill when you are ready let me know I will give you his number. He keeps me updated on everything, when he finds something he calls. Easy guy to work with.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Thing is I knew when I bought it it was leaking, I know the previous owner and I thought I knew the car so did he LOL. The previous owner had no idea how bad it was, the car ran fine for him too he restored the body work etc and at some point he was going to do what I am now. The motor is 40 years old so I expected some issues just not all at once. I agree better now than to have it do out on the road, the mechanic was doing a look see for me while he has it and glad he did. Leaking last year wasn't bad I think I used maybe 2 qts of oil all last season with bars leak. Same with tranny. But I drove it maybe 800 miles or so not sure as the speedo is not accurate. Bars leak bought me a little time. 

This year I am going through cardboard after cardboard. Spots getting larger and larger a catastrophic failure was eminent from both the trans and engine. When I called this place I was told 595 to rebuild a TH400 to spec with the correct gears etc, and the guy rebuilds these in his sleep and warrants it. Then 350 for the rear seal I said HOW SOON!!?? The tranny with all the abuse that it endured, was under 800.00 totally rebuilt with the 12/12 a little higher than expected cause of cables etc. I had estimates as high as 1200.

The guy who shares the same shop dug into the engine. That oil pan was on the verge of blowing apart. That not the rear main was the culprit with my luck the rear main would go no sooner after I get it back. Everything else now looks good so a rebuild is not necessary, the engine ran strong before this even when stomping it no smoke. All the parts are laid out and he painted them for me too, I supplied the paint. May as well put the right valve covers on too and run the vent tube to the RA tray. 

Yea silver.... Nice havin 2 goats, when ones in the hospital the other gets attention. I am hoping sometime next week, the rear main has to sit a day or so after the vitron is installed and permatex sets up. 

Next up...... 3.55 gears from the 4.10's. Just as soon as my wallet is finished swelling.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds like your lucky you caught all the stuff, that could have turned ugly if that tranny overheated and burned up or the pan dropped all the oil out of the motor as you were driving!! Might cost a few bucks now, but sure is cheaper then if the stuff burned up!!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Rukee said:


> Sounds like your lucky you caught all the stuff, that could have turned ugly if that tranny overheated and burned up or the pan dropped all the oil out of the motor as you were driving!! Might cost a few bucks now, but sure is cheaper then if the stuff burned up!!


Yea I know, it turned out I am lucky, I got it all.... The Good, The Bad, and I saw The Ugly. :willy:


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## BillGTO (Oct 16, 2009)

Great. When I bought my 67, it had a freshly rebuilt Muncie. The previous owner claimed it wouldn't go into 1st. Tranny seems good, but they did not replace the clutch. Supposedy it was all right. Seems a little weak to me. Any way, the rear main keeps my drip pan busy, and the power steering hoses leak a litlle too. Always something. Last week, the right down pipe broke. The exhaust is almost new, except for the right down pipe! Guess the guys who did the exhaust weren't up to removing the stuck flange bolts. I had Barker Gang Garage rebuild my Q jet in Denver and got it running great, then the Brake on the left front had a broken bolt in the spindle. Got that fixed and while I was out driving after i adjusted the brakes, the Fuel pump went. So I can sympathize with you. The motor in my gto is a 68 400 HO and I have been playing with it since I bought it. The car barely ran and now is running pretty well. But I am sure after I get the pump replaced, there will be something else. I went out to my RV the other day and the fridge wouldnt work , the tires are cracking, and the dash heater quit. Do things always happen in 3's?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

BillGTO said:


> Do things always happen in 3's?


I often thought that why in 3's? Answer? The Three Stooges? Mishaps, Buffoonery, Mayhem.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Well, the patient is out of intensive care out of recovery and back in the stable but not without one hell of a roller coaster ride with no healthcare coverage. The estimate was blown to hell and back a dozen times. On top of this it was found she needs more surgery. Had i known in the end it would have went in for a rebuild but I'd be without it 2 months right now.

Transmission: What a difference, it snaps you. New shift cable, shifting is now smooth. Tranny not near as noisy as it was. 

Engine: One thing led to another, and another, and another. While the tranny was being rebuilt, replace the rear main. It wasn't leaking. The rope seal looked good believe it or not. Don't know when it was put in but it was pliable. The color if it was black not that it matters but ones I seen where white. I find it hard to believe its the original seal. Vitron is in now. Oil pan was the culprit it was in that sad a shape. The gasket was brittle and snapped in pieces. All kinds of stuff had to be replaced: timing chain, [fuel pump, water pump were ok but who knows when they would go may as well do it now] Transmission X member bracket and isolators, Xmember ends rusted the ends short by 2", harmonic balancer. Added the correct valve covers. Found a guy on the PY forum who does swap meets, fortunately UPS was one day standard. V belts? may as well.. Get a call.... rear wheel cylinders are leaking come on down, rear brake job too.. can it get worse? LOL front seals needed replaced dayum. All this blindsided me.

I stop in yesterday to check on her 3 weeks in the operating room mostly waiting for parts coming from everywhere. Last thing to come off was the driver side valve cover for replacement. MAJOR problem... lifter spring caps broken, some missing, some chunks are missing. After all this I am now looking at rebuilding the engine. I am fit to be tied. All this friggin money and it will have to be re-fin done. I been driving this for a year like this? The previous owner has been driving it like that? NO indications anything is wrong. Concern on where are the bits of metal? Nothing in the oil pan.. maybe lodged in the motor, with the crank being shifted around did they dislodge? Some were missing which indicates some Einstein removed them others were split in half, all is well on the passenger side. So now after all this will the damn engine even run without damaging? Someone ignored this tiny little problem. Maybe the chunks were removed? 

The worry was starting it up. I get a call..... I got this queezy feeling in my guts, sick to my stomach... Man it turned right over sounds good on the lift. I go get it.. take it for a spin runs like a champ. Power out the a$$. Oil pressure 65 lbs on the throttle 35 at idle... Temp 165-170. Gonna take it easy on it keep the RPMS low, watch the gauges and listen for any kind of tapping then shut it down....in the Fall unless it fails before hand rebuild.
3500 for a standard 400 included beefed up RA3 cam with beefy parts to it. 

I hear 3500 is good (24 month warranty 24k miles) Included everything with my luck it will cost override. I have heard of 5-8K for rebuilds so I don't know. New high torque starter going in. Happy Happy Joy Joy


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

55 minute run about 35 miles got on it a little ran like a champ temp hoovered at 165 never went above 170 at traffic lights oil pressure 160-165 135 or so at idle. Cannot tell shes injured. If she runs like this til Nov I'll be happy.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> MAJOR problem... lifter spring caps broken, some missing, some chunks are missing. Some were missing which indicates some Einstein removed them others were split in half, all is well on the passenger side. So now after all this will the damn engine even run without damaging? Someone ignored this tiny little problem. Maybe the chunks were removed?


Congrats on getting it done, it's ready for summer!:cheers

Ok, so it needs new valve spring retainers, not a big deal. Big deal if the parts get lodged somewhere, but they haven't. You say, it runs great, plenty of power and good oil pressure, no reason to rebuild the motor. But, better to fix the retainers while it's cheap than to chance dropping a valve and busting a cylinder, head and piston. You can probably replace the valve springs at the same time, springs are under $100.
Replacing valve retainers 101:
Take spark plugs out, rotate 1 cylinder at a time to TDC-top dead center, pressurize cylinder with air, compress spring, remove retainer and lock, install new, release valve, repeat 16 times, or 8 if it's only on 1 side. Or jam a rope into the cylinder, bring the piston up in the cylinder til it's tight, remove lock and retainer as above, install new, adjust valves, drink beer.. Pressure and rope are to keep the valve from falling into the motor. All work can be done by just removing plugs and valve cover, and tightening rockers back down, not a bad or expensive job if your mechanic is working with you.
When it starts smoking, using oil, loses power has a knock then rebuild it. If your mechanic only noticed that, fix it, and smoke em down. Hell, your credit card is probably so full you won't even notice a couple hundred more, and the car will be done.
Again, congrats!!arty:


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

great news Judge...great news...
Bill


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> 55 minute run about 35 miles got on it a little ran like a champ temp hoovered at 165 never went above 170 at traffic lights oil pressure 160-165 135 or so at idle. Cannot tell shes injured. If she runs like this til Nov I'll be happy.


How much oil pressure???


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

:lol: I think Judge got carried away with the "1"s. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt and call it "fat fingering".....................


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Rukee said:


> How much oil pressure???


60-65 at about 40 or so and above...... bout 35 at idle... its been like that from when I purchased it. I forgot to subtract the 1 after carrying the 3 from pie squared.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jetstang said:


> Take spark plugs out, rotate 1 cylinder at a time to TDC-top dead center, pressurize cylinder with air, compress spring, remove retainer and lock, install new, release valve, repeat 16 times, or 8 if it's only on 1 side. Or jam a rope into the cylinder, bring the piston up in the cylinder til it's tight, remove lock and retainer as above, install new, adjust valves, drink beer.. Pressure and rope are to keep the valve from falling into the motor. All work can be done by just removing plugs and valve cover, and tightening rockers back down, not a bad or expensive job if your mechanic is working with you.
> When it starts smoking, using oil, loses power has a knock then rebuild it. If your mechanic only noticed that, fix it, and smoke em down. Hell, your credit card is probably so full you won't even notice a couple hundred more, and the car will be done.
> Again, congrats!!arty:


Ideally that would be the ticket, I discussed this.. Thing is If by some chance there is a piece of metal in there and its lodged and not harming anything now with compressed air in there lifting the lifters etc it could dislodge it and after its all back together then wham. Also no idea what the bottom end looks like etc. Believe me I would love to just replace the valve springs etc but without knowing what the bottom end is like a whole new can of worms could arise and MOMONEY out da drain. I don't know the history of the motor, I do know the snot was kicked out of it. This thing is kicking ass, if I can keep it this way til Nov-Dec then send the motor for a rebuild I will know for sure with a warranty what I got and I won't be so worried. I am not too good at gambling.

Strange.... placed cardboard under the car last night.... not one single drip, the garage doesn't smell like Valvoline anymore.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

If it can handle the air pressure of the engine running, it can handle 50-75lbs to keep the valves closed. 
None of those valve spring broken parts should be in the combustion chamber. Those broken pieces would be in the oiling system only. If they are not in the top of the head or the lifter valley then I'd bet the past owner pulled the broken parts out.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Rukee said:


> If it can handle the air pressure of the engine running, it can handle 50-75lbs to keep the valves closed.
> None of those valve spring broken parts should be in the combustion chamber. Those broken pieces would be in the oiling system only. If they are not in the top of the head or the lifter valley then I'd bet the past owner pulled the broken parts out.


Thats good to hear....

Q: Is there a bracket that is to go on the back of a starter for a 70? New starter in with many shims but wen turning over a slight noise can be heard. I am told some chevy starters had a bracket on the back of the starter to keep it still when engaging. ??


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

There would be a boss for the bolt on the block just above the back of the starter if there was.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

:agree The pieces of retainer are long gone, no way they can get in the cylinder. Trust us, we're doctors, lol.. 
If you are pulling that kind of oil pressure out of the motor, the bottom end bearings are OK. Pontiac motors are tough and can take alot of abuse. 
But, you bust a retainer and drop a valve, you will be crying and kicking yourself...


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Thats good to hear....
> 
> Q: Is there a bracket that is to go on the back of a starter for a 70? New starter in with many shims but wen turning over a slight noise can be heard. I am told some chevy starters had a bracket on the back of the starter to keep it still when engaging. ??


Pontiacs take 3/16" shims. I just did mine, thought I had enough shims and it ground when I cranked, threw another shim in and it was fine. My 70 has a bracket on the front of the starter, goes to the block. Try adding a shim and see if that helps.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jetstang said:


> Pontiacs take 3/16" shims. I just did mine, thought I had enough shims and it ground when I cranked, threw another shim in and it was fine. My 70 has a bracket on the front of the starter, goes to the block. Try adding a shim and see if that helps.


There are a mess of shims in it now.... doesnt grind but it shakes a bit wondering if there was a bracket from factory in the rear to eliminate this and keep it still.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> There are a mess of shims in it now.... doesnt grind but it shakes a bit wondering if there was a bracket from factory in the rear to eliminate this and keep it still.


Yes there is, and yes it will help. Don't know where you can get one, I guess Ames or Ebay.


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## revsitup (Nov 9, 2007)

jetstang said:


> Yes there is, and yes it will help. Don't know where you can get one, I guess Ames or Ebay.


Vic, I will bring you a bracket to the Freysingner show tomorrow.

Brent


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Strange.... placed cardboard under the car last night.... not one single drip, the garage doesn't smell like Valvoline anymore.



Judge, if you "really" start to miss the smell of Valvoline, I'll send you a piece of my cardboard! :lol:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

68greengoat said:


> Judge, if you "really" start to miss the smell of Valvoline, I'll send you a piece of my cardboard! :lol:


Actually since leaking oil is synonymous for these cars I am archiving the oil laden cardboard and placing it with the spare car parts. In 30 years all need be done to restore the dried oily cardboard is to dump more oil on it. By then Ames will be carrying nostalgia oil soaked cardboard for a premium. However by that time I will be too old to care.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

revsitup said:


> Vic, I will bring you a bracket to the Freysingner show tomorrow.
> 
> Brent


THANKS BRENT..... sold it on ebay for 300.00, [after I found it.]  :rofl::rofl:

naaaaa gonna get er in asap.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Actually since leaking oil is synonymous for these cars I am archiving the oil laden cardboard and placing it with the spare car parts. In 30 years all need be done to restore the dried oily cardboard is to dump more oil on it. By then Ames will be carrying nostalgia oil soaked cardboard for a premium. However by that time I will be too old to care.


I guess Harley's and Pontiacs have something in common, both mark their territory... My 350 hasn't dropped any oil after the refresh, kind of shocked. Lucky I havent' worked the trannny yet or I wouldn't know what to think without any seepage on the floor.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jetstang said:


> I guess Harley's and Pontiacs have something in common, both mark their territory... My 350 hasn't dropped any oil after the refresh, kind of shocked. Lucky I havent' worked the trannny yet or I wouldn't know what to think without any seepage on the floor.


The guy who worked on the engine did one hell of a job. He takes pride in his work is fair with his labor and calls to update with everything abnormal he sees before he removes parts from the car. He did a thorough job. He had me bring paint so he could paint all parts after he bead blasted them before reinstalling . The engine looks like it just had a refresh rebuild. Doing a lot of soul searching on a total rebuild and I am leaning on doing this over the winter. Put 300 miles on it since Thursday and it just hauls ass when I punch it, on the open road it throws you back when the 4's kick in. My concern is the wear issue over 40 years, the low end and I want to drive this the way its supposed to be driven. I know this car was raced all evidence points to it. Do I bite the bullet and just rebuild now or keep my fingers crossed and risk a failure in mid summer some time and be without it when I want to drive it the most?

I want to be able to drive this from Ohio to NY to VA for major shows. Despite it running great even though shes wounded I will not trust long hauls. A rebuild in the future is inevitable. The car ran ok when I got it, a bit lethargic but with some work shes coming back to life, with a trans rebuild and new timing chain etc I got a re-taste of the old days, a rebuild of the motor will put my mind at ease and I can go where I want with no worries. I'd love to drive it to the Tri-power Nats instead of the '05. Next year that's doable with no anxiety with a whole fresh make over. It will take me that long to save $$ for gas to and from.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Judge, a rebuild is not a bad investment, and is a great piece of mind like you say. It may not need that much and only take a week or two, depending on the machine shop and parts availability. I would wait til winter, but if you have time now, go for it. I'm sure your mechanic won't mind.
Also, this would be a good time for hardened valve seats if it doesn't have them. Maybe lower compression a little. A nice roller cam would be a nice addition, and some aluminum heads to help dissipate heat. Get that 500 HP pump gas motor.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jetstang said:


> Judge, a rebuild is not a bad investment, and is a great piece of mind like you say. It may not need that much and only take a week or two, depending on the machine shop and parts availability. I would wait til winter, but if you have time now, go for it. I'm sure your mechanic won't mind.
> Also, this would be a good time for hardened valve seats if it doesn't have them. Maybe lower compression a little. A nice roller cam would be a nice addition, and some aluminum heads to help dissipate heat. Get that 500 HP pump gas motor.


Looking at sometime in Nov unless something unforeseen happens before then. I'm told 8 weeks once they receive the motor, my thought process is Nov just in case it runs an extra 3 or 4 weeks so I can have it by March. Refresh the paint in the engine bay and get the radiator checked out and address that if it needs re-cored etc maybe just replace that too. Def want to redo compression to run lower octane gas and upgrade the RA 3 cam. Exploring all options within my budget. I'd like to get away from the Zinc requirements. More options than the thickness of the wallet. :willy:


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