# 71 Lemans First Frame Off Restoration



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Im gonna start my own thread here to track my progress on my restoration.

Here she is shortly after I bought it. This is exactly what it looked like.










Here are the first stages as she sets right now.

























Front left cowl drain. We fished out probably 3-5lbs of dirt, leaves, and sand with a coat hanger before we even began to tear it down. This was causeing major rust and water to drain into the drivers carpet.
















Already ordered the outter patch for this ^ from Ames.

Wish me luck as I know nothing about these old cars, and Ive never done body work before. My friend and neighbor have though and are advising me and lending a hand.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

looks like youve got a nice place to work on it.


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agree nice shop! take your time, It's just machinery...the body work is art however!:cheers Eric


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Nice shop and a pretty solid looking ride. 

What are your final plans for her?


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks guys. Yeah its pretty solid, rust is minimal. 90% of the rust is the furtherest panel to the rear under the seat, and the front left lower cowl panel. (the cowl panel is what Im working on now.) I have the outter area removed, POR-15 the inside area this evening, just waiting on the replacement from Ames to show up.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Nice car, and really great shop, I'm envious! Good luck on the build, remember, KISS, keep it simple stupid! Kiss was some of the best advice I ever got.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Ordered both rear quarter patch panels just now. Hope they are good quality.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Well Ames seems to be the hold up now. Ordered a part and they waited nearly 2 days to ship the darn thing. Tracking says it should be here monday. Not much progress today, took 1 hood hinge off blasted it and POR-15 on it. Got that crap all over me and it dont come off! Rest of the day basically a clean up the shop day.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

beats going to work
arty:


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Well the body is off the frame.

























And the serial number on the frame matches the VIN!


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Unreal how clean that thing looks in PICTURES, how is it in real life. Looks like a quick redo either way, have fun!


----------



## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

Looks good man, hope the resto goes smoothly. Keep us posted.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Quarter patch panels arrived today.

They just look like crushed soda cans!


----------



## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

OrbitOrange said:


> Ordered both rear quarter patch panels just now. Hope they are good quality.


I guess that question got answered...... Ouch....



OrbitOrange said:


> Quarter patch panels arrived today.
> 
> They just look like crushed soda cans!


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Oh man... I'd be mad as hell. Were they insured?


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Well I called the company I ordered them from. They were easy to deal with. It was not their packaging. It was UPS that crushed the box. But anyhow the rep I talked to was actually trying to find a warehouse near me so I could just pick some up but there wasn't any. He finally just knocked $80 off what I had paid because the area that I really need which is the lower portion was not damaged and I can still use these to fix the problem area. Just lucky to have some 70-72 quarter patches.


----------



## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

I'm glad you were still able to use them and it was UPS at fault not the part. Thats great they were nice to work with. Hope they turn out nice for you.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Drivers side cowl repair. Complete!
Got it all welded up. Ground the welds down. Applied 3m seam sealer. (stuff is so thick I don't see how they call it brush on seam sealer). Then applied POR15 to it all.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Oh forgot to add that its up on the rotisserie finally.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Got 1 quarter panel patch installed very late last night. Turned out great. I manily drilled spot welds, flanged the edges and punched holes for the new sport welds. My neighbor thats been helping did the fitting and welding for me. Looks like its gonna be a good piece. Fit was pretty good.

Then this after noon I rolled it in the driveway and degreased the underside of the body. Will finish that up tomorrow and begin POR15 on the underbody.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Great car and facilities to do it. Where are you out of to find a car that clean?


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Sent my frame out to have it blasted. Should have it back tonight.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Got the frame back last night and started brushing on the POR 15 Chassis Black. I got a good bit of it covered. Gonna get some more on it today and then spray the last coat on since there are some areas that are impossible to get with a brush.

Here are pics.


----------



## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

looks good. if you spray that stuff wear good breathing equiptment and not just a cheap mask. i hear it has the same nasty stuff in it that clear coat paint has.



OrbitOrange said:


> Got the frame back last night and started brushing on the POR 15 Chassis Black. I got a good bit of it covered. Gonna get some more on it today and then spray the last coat on since there are some areas that are impossible to get with a brush.
> 
> Here are pics.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

I sprayed some of it yesterday. I opened up the front and rear garage doors and had a little breeze. Didn't fog up the shop like I thought it would I ran pretty low air pressure and held a rag over my face. I know thats not good but all I had at the moment.

I will say spraying covers alot faster and if you get a spot thats fish eyeing you can fix that with a brush after it sets about 10 mins!
And for anyone wondering about the POR 15 (i know i had alot of questions before I finally decided on using it) the chassis coat stuff comes out like a satin black very very much like the factory had on the frame and firewall. The regular por15 is very shinny but not UV resistant.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I bought POR-15 yesterday and overheard the rep saying not to spray it without a fresh air resperator. He said it will get through a charcoal resperator and seal your lungs up forever!! He got my attention, so be carefull if you spray it. I know what catylized Enamel does to your lungs, and it's not fun..


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Ok after spraying some I finally got a respirator today. I will NOT be spraying without it anymore. I hope the 1/2 quart I sprayed without it doesn't screw me up any worse than I already am!


More pictures time!

Im in the process of replacing the trunk pan right now, as I type this. Yeah I have a computer in the shop so I can look things up and jam PANDORA!!


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Cool pics, I got a new pan kit for my 66, but no tank supports.. So, I can cut out the trunk and get a look at the supports.. Chevelle guys say the Chevelle tank supports are too short.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Reusing my floor supports, I just cut the pan off of them. I did buy new tank straps. I hope like hell they fit because I threw the old ones out.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

The new floor pan is in. That thing was PITA! I bet Ive got 150 or more spot welds.
I also have the underseat floor pan in. That thing was a breeze! These were all goodmark parts. The trunk pan (large 1 piece with no braces) was an 8 on a scale of 1-10. The underseat pan I would give a 9. I would give it a 10 but I had to trim about 5 inches off the most forward area other than that Good stuff.


----------



## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

That does look like a nice place to work. it looks more like a basement than a garage


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

1968LemansGuy said:


> That does look like a nice place to work. it looks more like a basement than a garage


Nope its a normal 2 car garage. Except its 40 ft deep! And the back side has 13ft ceiling.arty:


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Got the underbody por 15 today. Followed up with some spray on undercoating. Put the body back on the frame. Started repairing the back area where the window always rots out. This is a huge huge huge job. Since these parts are not reproduced except the rear filler panel, everything had to be taken from a parts car. Im replacing the metal area of the rear package tray which is also the same part under the rear filler panel that the trunk lid hinges attach to at their most upper area.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I would be careful when you put the package tray in that the fill panel and rear window and trim still fit correctly. My buddy built the bottom corners on the sail panels to match the trim, came out great, but was tedious.
Here's my link, and a pic you can use for reference.
http://s411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/jetstang/my cars/70 Lemans/#!cpZZ4QQtppZZ12


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Yeah this area is a real pain in the ass.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

man thats looking good! that rotisserie is the shiznit! looks like you have a good handle on the the panel replacement. you cant fix the fenders too?


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

66tempestGT said:


> man thats looking good! that rotisserie is the shiznit! looks like you have a good handle on the the panel replacement. you cant fix the fenders too?


I might could fix 1 of the fenders. BTW, I was down towards your neck of the woods yesterday. Actually I was in Vestavia Hills taking a driving course for the company I work for. I think they are trying to get their insurance rates lower.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Finally took the dash out. That has got to be the easiest dash I have removed and I have pulled many dashes to replace heatercores. 

After looking at the fenders I have I think I will salvage the drivers fender but probly gonna need a passenger fender. That should save about $300 or so


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

One thing I have noticed about my dash that it differs from all the other 70-72 dashes Ive had here is that its lower section is vinyl. It doesnt have the removable metal panels that would be located directly in front of your knees. Does anyone have a clue why mine is differant. Its not an aftermarket dash or dash cover.


















Here are some pictures of the firewall finally with new seam sealer and paint.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Dug into the 400 some this evening. Pulled the oil plug and it was frozen water. NO OIL at all. The engine is seized due to major rust in the cylinders. Pulled the cam, it says HI FLOW Erson. So it had an Erson cam will post the number on it later.

Almost looks as if someone was building this motor then had to move or something. I would expect there to be some oil residue here and there but just on the cam. everything else is rust. Had no gaskets in the engine at all. No carbon build up anywhere. Looks like machine work was done and new parts bought but someone had to throw the engine in the car quickly for some reason like to move or to store it.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Sorry about the engine..
I got a running 400, needs a cam and a clean up.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Got the engine tore apart tonight. Had to literally beat the pistons/rods out with a hammer. I think the block is still good and probably the heads.

























Gonna have it magnafluxed later and see if its salvagable.


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Lots of good work happening there...:cheers

If the engine isn't the original, talk to jetstang about his. If your Erson Cam and lifters are good, you could throw them in his and go...


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Im pretty sure the block is still good. Gonna verify that with magnafluxing. It will just need all new machining.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

This just keeps getting worse for me. My friend which happens to also be my neighbor, has been helping me do alot of the work that I dont know how to do. I told him before we started that if he knew how to do this then I would trust him and we would do the body work. Well now the area behind the back glass and filler panel is partially reinstalled and I cant get him over to finish it and said today that he might be moving. Not moving across town. But 1.5 hour from here. So I might be screwed. I cant afford to take it to a shop and have them finish what he started.I would probly get charged twice as much now that hes been working on it , than what I would have paid if Id taken it straight to a shop to begin with. I told him before we started if he couldnt do it then I would take it somewhere. Now the money to "take it somewhere" is spent on other things for the car.


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

hang in there Orbit, just a idea, with the economy where it is at i bet you could find someone knowledgeable to do the metal work for a labor only agreement as it seems you have a pretty nice set-up and place to work, i do construction and contacted local unemployment job bank, placed add and had guys willing to drive two hrs each way just to be working. Just a suggestion and am sure it would be more economical than taking it somewhere at this point.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

OrbitOrange said:


> This just keeps getting worse for me. My friend which happens to also be my neighbor, has been helping me do alot of the work that I dont know how to do. I told him before we started that if he knew how to do this then I would trust him and we would do the body work. Well now the area behind the back glass and filler panel is partially reinstalled and I cant get him over to finish it and said today that he might be moving. Not moving across town.


It's not as bad as it seems. When I started work on my 69 I had exactly ZERO experience and skill at body work. Since then I've learned it's possible to do, and as long as you go slow and think about what you're doing there's not a whole lot you can mess up to the point that it can't be redone and fixed. It's not like grenading your one and only numbers-matching block where you only get one chance at it, you just back up, sand it off and/or cut it out and go again. Trust me, if I can learn to do it, so can you. My two invaluable resources have been Kevin Tetz's Paintucation DVD's and also his forum. Every time I watch them I spot something else I'd missed before, probably because the experiences I'm having as I go along help me understand why certain things are important. You can do it - I know you can.


Bear


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I have a 8 miniture visegrips that I use to hold pieces in place with edges. Otherwise, use clecos, or sheet metal screws to hold stuff together and adjust to fit. Then start tacking with the mig and re-checking everything for fit. Once you're sure it's all in place, weld it up. It will take you longer to do it than he might but at this point, it WILL get done. There's 3 months of winter left, so don't hurry. Like Bear said, if it isn't fitting/looking right, knock it apart and do it again.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks guys.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

how far are you from me? maybe one weekend we can get together and knock it out.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

66tempestGT said:


> how far are you from me? maybe one weekend we can get together and knock it out.


You know where Boaz is? 

Im a little over an hour from Bham.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

kind of, with the outlet malls?

dont you already have the old one cut out? i could gather up a box of tools and come help you spend a day on it.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

i went back and looked at the pics. do you have new pieces to go in or a used chunk? or a mixture of both?


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

I have the filler panel that came out still. I have welded 80% of the "package tray" back in. Ive been trying to fab the corners where the glass sets at the bottom out of metal. 

I got a grinder, some tin snips, and a cheap harbor freight mig welder. Thats what Ive been working with.


Boaz is where the big outlet center used to be. Most the outlets are empty now.

If you wanta talk about it you can shoot me your number in a PM and Ill give you a call.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

UPDATE:

Been a while since a messed with the car. Had a death in the family so that took some time away and have had to work on some family members cars. 

Last night got to work on the drivers door some. Put new bushings, pins, detent roller, latch and striker bolt. Then tonight got around to aligning the door and tried like hell to get the front left fender aligned and that has proved to be a pain staking task. Got new fenders and core support. Should be ordering the 70 GTO fiberglass bumper soon. Gonna buy the GTO restoration book tomorrow at books a million hope it has some info to help get this thing back together.

Paypal sent my money back finally from the guy that ripped me off on the core support and front bumper Id bought from him.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Well I sent to car out to a body shop. Its a guy I know pretty well, they have done alot of work on the car. After I welded in the sheetmetal they did the finishing touches. They fixed the area around the rear window. Im really glad I went ahead and hired this guy to do the rest of the work. Im not a body man and I would have probably just messed it up. I did what I could.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

There are a few pictures of the latest on it as of last night. Been busy with work and with all the tornado damage here. Since I work for the cable company that has brought in some overtime. So hopefully I can get a few more parts I been needing. I will try to keep this updated better over the next few weeks.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

These next 2 pictures are from last week the painter took with his phone. It was painted black for a guide coat.





















Also changes were made. Decided to restore the 70 GTO since it was numbers matching and use parts from the Lemans where possible. And sold Lemans parts to people who could use it and buy some more GTO parts.


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

You did the right thing letting a pro body man take over. I've gotten pretty good at sheet metal replacement but can't do finish work to save my soul. That is an art that takes time and practice. Once you've "done what you can", you gotta let go. It will look better in the end....


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

looking good!!!!....Amen to that TMP tackled mine and i am at least 300 man hrs in it with just smoothing and minor body work is going to paint booth the 27th taking that on too....now i know why a GOOD paint/body job can cost 6000+.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Im was like a kid in a candy store when I seen that Orbit Orange paint going on. Wont be long it will be covered in it!


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Well shes got some color on her now!


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

lookin good OO, is'nt it sweet to see them in your color for the first time....i am still staring at mine every time i walk by it.....:cheers


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Yeah I am so ready to drive it an actually enjoy it some!


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Amen to that, Power Tour ends at Metro Beach here on Friday, I am hoping to get it on the road and make it down there. My new interior is in except for the seats, getting ready to go glue and stretch the headliner now....arty:


----------



## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

That is some nice work you did, and I would kill to have that lift in my shop. Ive been thinking of using the glass nose for a while since my original is beat up pretty bad.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

After getting it home and getting to assembling somethings here and there and putting it up on the lift I have found problems with the paint, mainly runs. Im taking it back to have it sanded and resprayed.

When they assembled the frontend I requested leave a small gap between the endura bumper and the fenders because I was told jacking the car up and/or putting it on the lift would cause flex and if the endura contacted the fender it would crack the paint. After putting it on the lift and now having in on the ground again, the gap on the drivers side is pretty much gone. Will have that readjusted and make sure its tightened with an impact gun.


----------



## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

the car looks great, that color is really growing on me.


----------



## Thor7352 (Oct 11, 2010)

Nice work. The car is really looking good!


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks guys.

Its coming along pretty good. Got the transmission in today. Got the dash in a week or so ago. Im gonna have to take it back to the painter to fix a few things but trying to get it ready to crank right now. Its not far from crankin now. Hook up a few vac. lines , run a fuel line, carb gasket and double check a few things.


----------



## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

UPDATES???? On pins an needles, waiting to hear how it runs.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Ok here we go. My first youtube video ever!

You can tell my carb is loading up a bit. I gotta call edelbrock and see whats up there. Brand new 600 and its loading up.


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

good work OO, i have had a heck of a time with my Eddy too....may have too much fuel pressure, they say not to run over 5.5 psi in edelbrock literature, used a inline regulator on mine and it helped with the rich idle and stumble off idle.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Nice!! Posi is working! I would check the carb, is it smoking out the carb after shutdown, that shows it's dumping gas, or look down when it's running for it dripping. The float may be set too high from the factory. 
Does everyone have a big nasty cam except me?? Time for a cam swap for me fo sho.. lol..


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

jetstang said:


> Nice!! Posi is working! I would check the carb, is it smoking out the carb after shutdown, that shows it's dumping gas, or look down when it's running for it dripping. The float may be set too high from the factory.
> Does everyone have a big nasty cam except me?? Time for a cam swap for me fo sho.. lol..


No posi yet! just got lucky on that one! Next one was a peg leg burn out! And no monster cam, thats the edelbrock carb loading up. Thats why you can hear me rev it up and blow that fuel out once I got it backed out, it was on the verge of stalling out. I do need to check the floats.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Instg8ter said:


> good work OO, i have had a heck of a time with my Eddy too....may have too much fuel pressure, they say not to run over 5.5 psi in edelbrock literature, used a inline regulator on mine and it helped with the rich idle and stumble off idle.


I got an inline regulator also, running about 4.5 -5 according to my cheap POS mr. gasket fuel pressure gauge. Thing never reads right. Last night it was reading 2 psi of pressure tapped it with a wrench and it jumped to 5 psi. Im gonna try to adjust the floats some. Turning the mixture screws out a quarter turn helped ALOT! They were out 3/4 turn from completely closed from the factory. I got about 1 full turn out on them now.


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

If the carb is right, they should be out about 3 turns, so yes, it's dumping. I run my fuel pressure at 5 or lower depending on demand. 4 is better for longevity, but may starve up top. What fuel pump are you running? Also, a trashy tank will mess up needles..
BTW, nice build, went real quick from my end..


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

waiting on the painter, had to take it back and let him touch up a few things, ordered rocker molding kit, headlight springs, and '68 dual gate shifter bezel from ames today.


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Orbit, Looks and sounds SWEET! Besides carb adjustment, maybe you need a few more RPMs at idle with that cam?? That might help with the loading up.:cheers:cheers Eric


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Well shes not done. I dont think it will ever been "done". When your "done" its time to get rid of it. Thats how I feel anyhow. But its together and running and Ive gotten to drive it around some. Still need to get some chrome trim pieces on the wheel wells and stuff like that but shes streetable now. I will get some pics up asap.


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Lookin good Orbit! You made me nervous lol pulling out of the garage. :lol:


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)




----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

LOL....sounds great OO, i bet our neighbors love us....always tell a Pontiac owners house....its the one with all the burnout patches in front of the driveway (looks like you will be looking for a posi too this winter..).....:cheers


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

I have a posi carrier but I think its a 2 series not sure. I gotta check it . As for the burn out marks yeah the neighbors probably hate me and the guy across the street from me. He has a Trailblazer SS and a 4th Gen TA !


----------



## NEEDLEZ (Oct 21, 2009)

Orbit thanks for keeping the updates coming in throughout the entirety of the project. You definitely have a sweet ride.


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

If it is a two series and you do not need it i would be willing to take it off your hands, think i will be running 2:** gears as i like the mileage and freeway manners and the 463 has plenty of push to get them going off the line.


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

*j/k!!!*

Real men don't use the brake pedal for burn outs.   :cheers


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Instg8ter said:


> If it is a two series and you do not need it i would be willing to take it off your hands, think i will be running 2:** gears as i like the mileage and freeway manners and the 463 has plenty of push to get them going off the line.


I will get it out sometime this week and let you know for sure what it is.


----------



## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Rukee said:


> Real men don't use the brake pedal for burn outs.   :cheers


Its a weak 350 right now til I can get the money to build my 400! It will turn em over but it wont blow em off in 1st . Would be nice if it would.


----------

