# A couple of TKO questions



## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

I looked at a NIB TKO, I THINK it was a 600, anyway it was ordered for a 67 Chevelle that was getting an LS conversion, the receipt read $3600 in 2019. I didn't pay it much attention at the time, because I like my muncie 4 speeds, but I'm considering making an offer on it. Since the new rage is the TKX, what's this new TKO worth? Since it was supposed to go behind an LS engine, I'm guessing it'll fit a Pontiac V8? I know nothing about these trannys, help please!


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

List price at Hanlon is 2600 for TKO , 2800 TKX 6spd 3300. Thats without the offset shifter to use the same hole as the Muncie.That is probably 200 ballpark. 2019 is there warranty left? I wouldn't think so. I will let other talk about the other needed parts.









TKO 600 – Hanlon Motorsports


TREMEC TKO 600 manual 5 speed transmissions, parts & kits for the TKO 600 manual gear box. Sold & serviced by Hanlon Motorsports




www.hanlonmotorsports.com


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

I'm sure the warranty's gone and I didn't see what all was listed on the invoice, just the bottom line of $3500. So, there might be additional parts, I did see a new clutch kit. I think the better fitting TKX has really devalued the TKO trannys, especially when talking about A body fitment. Thanks for posting that info, the one I'm looking at came from Silver Sport.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

I have a TKO600 from Silver Sport and love it. Great customer service and a great trans. It fit in the trans tunnel in my '67 GTO with only two small divots in the tunnel where one of the top cover corners almost hit the sheet metal. I didn't pull out the carpet and simply did a short blap from underneath with an air hammer and had plenty of clearance with nothing visible from the passenger compartment. I missed the TKX introduction by a year. Would I prefer to have the TKX -- yes. Would have saved maybe 15 minutes with the air hammer and a lot of measuring. The TKX will just drop in without a second thought.

They say the TKX shifts smoother but really my TKO is like slicing through butter. I did pay the additional for the carbon fiber syncro's, but my friend didn't and really our Pontiac 6,000 RPM shifts don't really upset the standard TKO. I'd like to think my trans shifts cleaner but really they are very close. The better shifting syncro rings are now included in the TKX.

Probably the most important thing is the trans you are looking at is equipped with the proper side shifter that brings the shift handle out exactly where the Muncie shifter is located. If the shifter isn't in the correct spot I believe it will cost around $500 for the parts to move it.

The easy thing about the install is both our stock bellhousings and aftermarket scatter shields are drilled for both the GM Muncie bolt pattern and the Ford pattern that the TKO and TKX use. The Ford 3-speed manual trans was an option and therefore both patterns were included.

Most all of Silver Sport's offerings were complete kits and you will have some additional money to spend if the conversion pieces are not included.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I see it looks like they come with their own roller pilot bearing so the TKO or TKX won't fit into the stock pilot bushing? Means you have to remove the bell and clutch and replace the bushing?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> I see it looks like they come with their own roller pilot bearing so the TKO or TKX won't fit into the stock pilot bushing? Means you have to remove the bell and clutch and replace the bushing?



Yep, you want to use a pilot bearing versus the pilot bushing I prefer. I believe I read it is because the input shaft must be maintained straight - which is due to the taper bearings. Muncie and other early trans use a ball bearing on the input shaft - so more forgiving as the bronze bushing wears. I also read it is due to the difference in a harder steel used for the input shaft so the roller bearing was also needed. One reason to make sure your bell housing is lined/squared up to the flywheel.

Not a fan of the pilot bearings, but will do so with my TKO.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Yep, you want to use a pilot bearing versus the pilot bushing I prefer. I believe I read it is because the input shaft must be maintained straight - which is due to the taper bearings. Muncie and other early trans use a ball bearing on the input shaft - so more forgiving as the bronze bushing wears. I also read it is due to the difference in a harder steel used for the input shaft so the roller bearing was also needed. One reason to make sure your bell housing is lined/squared up to the flywheel.
> 
> Not a fan of the pilot bearings, but will do so with my TKO.


To bad, if and when I did the swap was hoping for a plug n play but I guess not...well it will be a good time for a clutch inspection or an upgrade 🤑🤑🤑


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> To bad, if and when I did the swap was hoping for a plug n play but I guess not...well it will be a good time for a clutch inspection or an upgrade 🤑🤑🤑


Yep, you will want to align your bell housing - which has been covered here in the past. Assume you have a 26 spline input shaft as most HD transmissions do.

Do the inspection, but if your parts look good and you have not had any problems, re-use them as you know it works with what you now have. Maybe a new disc of the same type just to have a new one and not have to do it for a while.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Silver Sport accidentally sent me a Chevy pilot bushing in my kit so they are not really dead set against bushings. The proper part they got out to me was a Pontiac pilot bearing.

As Jim said, the Tremec won't tollerate a front shaft that is out of alignment and Silver Sport (probably dictated by Tremec) wouldn't activate the warranty until you sent in your measurement sheet showing that you had checked the runout. Then as a reward for your trouble hey mailed out a Tremec shift knob.

My old Lakewood scattershield from the early 80's was fabricated by a blacksmith and the center hole wasn't cut out clean and it made measuring a bear. Since then I've checked an original aluminum bellhousing and one of the new Quicktime scattershields and the center holes were cut true and made the process much simpler. Also Lakewood is now owned by the company that owns Quicktime and they have modernized the old Lakewood scattershield and it now weighs about 14 pounds less than the original with the same SFI rating - and I'd bet that hole is probably accurate also. Here's a photo when we were about half way through the adjustment. We'd measure and move it slightly and then erase numbers and measure again. Think we finally ended up about .003" out when we called it good. Tremec wants less than .005".










Had to make it pretty again before the final install.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

lust4speed said:


> Silver Sport accidentally sent me a Chevy pilot bushing in my kit so they are not really dead set against bushings. The proper part they got out to me was a Pontiac pilot bearing.
> 
> As Jim said, the Tremec won't tollerate a front shaft that is out of alignment and Silver Sport (probably dictated by Tremec) wouldn't activate the warranty until you sent in your measurement sheet showing that you had checked the runout. Then as a reward for your trouble hey mailed out a Tremec shift knob.
> 
> ...


This ought to be fun laying under the car 🤦‍♂️


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> This ought to be fun laying under the car 🤦‍♂️
> View attachment 159989


Since you are looking to remove/install your rear end and then look to upgrade your trans, I suggest you think about investing in a QuickJack lift. I plan to buy one once I get back on my Lemans to do fuel/brake lines, install the TKO, and put on my exhaust. The website price says $1,600.00, but I have another web photo that they are now $1,450.00 You can also see a video on how they operate. They come in different weight capacities if you want heavier. Requires air to operate, so it must be an air-over-oil set-up which is like some of the jacks we use at work.

Well, as I typed this, I got stupid and ordered one through Home Depot with free shipping. $1,450.00 and NC screws me for $100.00 taxes. So $1,500.00. I will do store pick-up, but I had the option of home delivery - not practical since I work for a living. LOL

Merry Christmas to me, dammit! 









5000TL


5000TL portable car lift adds an extra 3" bringing the lifting height to an impressive 24 inches. This enhancement increases access to the undercarriage of the vehicle and provides an overall increase to your comfort and capability. 5,000 Capacity (lbs) 24" Lifting Height 70" Frame Length




www.quickjack.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Appreciate it, but I can get the car up on 4 jack stands and put the money towards the trans


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> This ought to be fun laying under the car 🤦‍♂️
> View attachment 159989


Do it the Missouri way, remove the chassis. I have frame modifications to do so.When its off the frame do the install 

No restoration just repairs and mods.


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

lust4speed said:


> Silver Sport accidentally sent me a Chevy pilot bushing in my kit so they are not really dead set against bushings. The proper part they got out to me was a Pontiac pilot bearing.
> 
> As Jim said, the Tremec won't tollerate a front shaft that is out of alignment and Silver Sport (probably dictated by Tremec) wouldn't activate the warranty until you sent in your measurement sheet showing that you had checked the runout. Then as a reward for your trouble hey mailed out a Tremec shift knob.
> 
> ...


To satisfy terms of my Silver Sport warranty regarding alignment I purchased the gauge/magnet assembly and executed the procedure. I bought a QuickTime bellhousing (not cheap), but my measurements showed me alignment changes were not required. My boresight numbers were so good, I could not improve upon them. Credit goes to the precision of GM and QuickTime.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jody's wanted the same proof for the warranty so I sent pictures and a video but they can be altered so easily that I don't get the whole thing.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Duff said:


> I'm sure the warranty's gone and I didn't see what all was listed on the invoice, just the bottom line of $3500. So, there might be additional parts, I did see a new clutch kit. I think the better fitting TKX has really devalued the TKO trannys, especially when talking about A body fitment. Thanks for posting that info, the one I'm looking at came from Silver Sport.


If Im not mistaken, Silversport warranty doesnt begin until the trans is installed. That being said, I dont think an LS clutch would be good for a Pontiac, but dont quote me on that... It should be 11".

$35 for EVERYTHING, is a great deal... you would just need a new bellhousing.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> This ought to be fun laying under the car 🤦‍♂️
> View attachment 159989


I did it all under the car, including removing the pilot pins and adding a hydraulic clutch. It was snowing at the time, and 30 degrees. 

A week of my life was nothing, in the 55 years that this car has been on the road. Well worth it... if it was easy, everyone would do it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As for warranty stuff, another plug for Hanlon... if there are any issues, you just call the owner and they handle it for you. Its a benefit of the smaller companies.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Since you are looking to remove/install your rear end and then look to upgrade your trans, I suggest you think about investing in a QuickJack lift. I plan to buy one once I get back on my Lemans to do fuel/brake lines, install the TKO, and put on my exhaust. The website price says $1,600.00, but I have another web photo that they are now $1,450.00 You can also see a video on how they operate. They come in different weight capacities if you want heavier. Requires air to operate, so it must be an air-over-oil set-up which is like some of the jacks we use at work.
> 
> Well, as I typed this, I got stupid and ordered one through Home Depot with free shipping. $1,450.00 and NC screws me for $100.00 taxes. So $1,500.00. I will do store pick-up, but I had the option of home delivery - not practical since I work for a living. LOL
> 
> ...


I alsmost pulled the trigger on one, a few times, but my homade jack stands get the car just as high, and allow me side access, too. Yes, it sucks to put the car on them, but I dont need to do it often.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I feel like I would like one of those lifts for waxing and polishing, though. Im at the age where I hate squatting down to polish my trim


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> I feel like I would like one of those lifts for waxing and polishing, though. Im at the age where I hate squatting down to polish my trim


Ya, its not that I can't do it, I ask my self "why?" am I doing this when there is a better way - and I can afford it. Just changed the rear brake shoes on my Hyundai - drag my hefty 4-ton floor jack out on the ground and jack the car up on one side, remove the tire, sit on the ground and do the work. Need a tool, get up, get the tool, sit back down on the ground. Not exactly the "right" tool, get back up, grab a "better" tool for the job, sit back down on the ground and finish the job. Do the other side - repeat, but have all the "right" tools this time. LOL Oil changes, use the floor jack to get it just high enough so I can scoot under from the front - not too high as I don't want to twist the body and bust any glass. Lay on the ground, extend my arms because I don't want too much of my body under the car, remove drain plug and drain oil. Then get back up off the ground and drop the car level (why I don't use a jack stand under the car when doing this) so all the old oil will drain out the front pan plug. No more drips, jack the car back up, install plug, then remove oil filter and install new one. Drop car down and add oil.

Been doing it and other cars for years like this. Might be nice, and bit safer, more room, and easier to just lift the car up evenly, sit on a seat, or lay further under the car to make things easier, and do my thing. I also like that they are portable. A 2-post lift would be the ticket, but it would be outside and I would have to have footings installed to use it - so more money.

Have been looking at these for some time and was not going to buy one just yet, but at the advertised price and free shipping, I know next year it will be $1,800.00 plus shipping with my luck. Just like buying my TKO-600 for $2,100.00 knowing I was not going to be installing it anytime soon, but I would be buying it anyway as that was what I wanted. So I saved some money on that deal as their prices have gone up - money in my pocket as I see it.

Some big ticket items when you put them off only increase in price and you have to cough up more cash on something that is already not too inexpensive. I guess sometimes prices do go down, but that never seems to apply to the big ticket items I purchase. 

So not an age thing, but one of convenience I can now afford.


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

PontiacJim said:


> Ya, its not that I can't do it, I ask my self "why?" am I doing this when there is a better way - and I can afford it. Just changed the rear brake shoes on my Hyundai - drag my hefty 4-ton floor jack out on the ground and jack the car up on one side, remove the tire, sit on the ground and do the work. Need a tool, get up, get the tool, sit back down on the ground. Not exactly the "right" tool, get back up, grab a "better" tool for the job, sit back down on the ground and finish the job. Do the other side - repeat, but have all the "right" tools this time. LOL Oil changes, use the floor jack to get it just high enough so I can scoot under from the front - not too high as I don't want to twist the body and bust any glass. Lay on the ground, extend my arms because I don't want too much of my body under the car, remove drain plug and drain oil. Then get back up off the ground and drop the car level (why I don't use a jack stand under the car when doing this) so all the old oil will drain out the front pan plug. No more drips, jack the car back up, install plug, then remove oil filter and install new one. Drop car down and add oil.
> 
> Been doing it and other cars for years like this. Might be nice, and bit safer, more room, and easier to just lift the car up evenly, sit on a seat, or lay further under the car to make things easier, and do my thing. I also like that they are portable. A 2-post lift would be the ticket, but it would be outside and I would have to have footings installed to use it - so more money.
> 
> ...


When it comes to sliding on the ground, I use cardboard when I have it. I actually prefer it to my creeper. Sliding on it is easier than dragging your back and butt across cement and I don’t have to jack up the car even higher to account for the creeper. Would buy a four post lift, if I had the room. Could easily afford one now but lack the space. Plus at my age, how many more years of working on cars is in question.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Noangelbuddy said:


> When it comes to sliding on the ground, I use cardboard when I have it. I actually prefer it to my creeper. Sliding on it is easier than dragging your back and butt across cement and I don’t have to jack up the car even higher to account for the creeper. Would buy a four post lift, if I had the room. Could easily afford one now but lack the space. Plus at my age, how many more years of working on cars is in question.


You will be working on cars until you can't. Then you find some young enthusiast who want to learn/work on cars and you mentor him/her and they do the work - for a ride in the car of course.

I purchased an old car from a guy who had a big lot filled with assorted cars, a couple in his basement, a couple in barns, and those h was working on. He told me, "I am 62 and have to be honest with myself that I am not going to gt to all these cars, so I am selling many of them off that I have collected over my life." I got the 1939 Packard hearse bare body and rolling chassis for $100.00. He had a 1942 (last few months of production before the war shut down all car lines) Packard two-tone green coupe in super shap with a rebuilt straight-8 sitting next to it. He said install the engine and it'll be driving. $1,800.00. This was 1991 and was a steal. $1,800.00 might as well have been $1,800,000.00 as I didn't have that kind of extra money. I could however afford the $100.00 hearse which I still have.

I plan on working on m cars until I drop. Plenty of retirement projects when that time comes.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Ya, its not that I can't do it, I ask my self "why?" am I doing this when there is a better way - and I can afford it. Just changed the rear brake shoes on my Hyundai - drag my hefty 4-ton floor jack out on the ground and jack the car up on one side, remove the tire, sit on the ground and do the work. Need a tool, get up, get the tool, sit back down on the ground. Not exactly the "right" tool, get back up, grab a "better" tool for the job, sit back down on the ground and finish the job. Do the other side - repeat, but have all the "right" tools this time. LOL Oil changes, use the floor jack to get it just high enough so I can scoot under from the front - not too high as I don't want to twist the body and bust any glass. Lay on the ground, extend my arms because I don't want too much of my body under the car, remove drain plug and drain oil. Then get back up off the ground and drop the car level (why I don't use a jack stand under the car when doing this) so all the old oil will drain out the front pan plug. No more drips, jack the car back up, install plug, then remove oil filter and install new one. Drop car down and add oil.
> 
> Been doing it and other cars for years like this. Might be nice, and bit safer, more room, and easier to just lift the car up evenly, sit on a seat, or lay further under the car to make things easier, and do my thing. I also like that they are portable. A 2-post lift would be the ticket, but it would be outside and I would have to have footings installed to use it - so more money.
> 
> ...


So I guess a garage is out of the question yet?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Ya, its not that I can't do it, I ask my self "why?"


This is my new motto


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Noangelbuddy said:


> When it comes to sliding on the ground, I use cardboard when I have it. I actually prefer it to my creeper. Sliding on it is easier than dragging your back and butt across cement and I don’t have to jack up the car even higher to account for the creeper. Would buy a four post lift, if I had the room. Could easily afford one now but lack the space. Plus at my age, how many more years of working on cars is in question.


We accidentally received a shipment of poly/ plastic, insulated shipping blankets, that was supposed to go to the electric company, and they told us to keep them. I use them now, instead of a creeper! Did the whole TH400 to Tremec swap, with one. It insulates from the cold, is easier to slide on, is impervious to oil and fluids, and a creep will roll on them, if I need one.

When done, I hose it off, and stick it behind the tool box.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> So I guess a garage is out of the question yet?


lol... You need to back-read


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

PontiacJim said:


> You will be working on cars until you can't. Then you find some young enthusiast who want to learn/work on cars and you mentor him/her and they do the work - for a ride in the car of course.
> 
> I purchased an old car from a guy who had a big lot filled with assorted cars, a couple in his basement, a couple in barns, and those h was working on. He told me, "I am 62 and have to be honest with myself that I am not going to gt to all these cars, so I am selling many of them off that I have collected over my life." I got the 1939 Packard hearse bare body and rolling chassis for $100.00. He had a 1942 (last few months of production before the war shut down all car lines) Packard two-tone green coupe in super shap with a rebuilt straight-8 sitting next to it. He said install the engine and it'll be driving. $1,800.00.  This was 1991 and was a steal. $1,800.00 might as well have been $1,800,000.00 as I didn't have that kind of extra money. I could however afford the $100.00 hearse which I still have.
> 
> I plan on working on m cars until I drop. Plenty of retirement projects when that time comes.


that story takes me back. i feel the same. i can't move as fast as i used to but i do still move. i wish you many more years of hot rodding and fun.


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