# E85



## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

anyone looking to change over. i heard, through the grapevine of coarse ......(holding my breath here) that v8's can get up to 300 more horse power with a bigger fuel pump and much much bigger injectors. and then a nice sweet dyno tune.......... any one's comments? 

now. I'm not sure of any supercharger assist here or not. im sure there is

comments anyone.

a buddy of mine happen to run across an article in hotrod magazine. about mustang's owner's doing this to there cars. and that it has been done to a goat. no other info then that.


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## Kraemer (Aug 5, 2008)

I've never heard of doing it to a performance car before, and I'm no expert. But I do know that E85 has higher octane levels and is less subject to detonation. Thus, you can add quite a bit more boost.

However, I also know that ethanol packs far less energy per gallon, and in use, cars run somewhere around 20-40% less mpg.

I've also heard, although never verified, horror stories about ethanol putting excess wear on engines designed for gas.

But it's all meaningless until E85 is offered everywhere I want to go... And I have yet to see it offered anywhere!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*Comparisons to regular gasoline​*
Depending on composition and source, E85 has an octane rating of 100–105 compared to regular gasoline's typical rating of 85–93. This allows it to be used in higher compression engines which tend to produce more power per unit of displacement than their gasoline counterparts. Since the reciprocating mass of the engine increases in proportion to the displacement of the engine E85 has a higher potential efficiency for an engine of equal power.

One complication is that use of gasoline in an engine with a high enough compression ratio to use E85 efficiently would likely result in catastrophic failure due to engine detonation, as the octane rating of gasoline is not high enough to withstand the greater compression ratios in use in an engine specifically designed to run on E85. Use of E85 in an engine designed specifically for gasoline would result in a loss of the potential efficiency that it is possible to gain with this fuel. Using E85 in a gasoline engine has the drawback of achieving lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit air (stoichiometric fuel ratio) to run the engine in comparison with gasoline. This corresponds to a lower heating value (units of energy per unit mass) for E85 than gasoline.

E85 consumes more fuel in flex fuel type vehicles when the vehicle uses the same compression for both E85 and gasoline because of its lower stoichiometric fuel ratio and lower heating value. European car maker Saab currently produces a flex fuel version of their 9-5 sedan which consumes the same amount of fuel whether running e85 or gasoline, though it is not available in the United States. So in order to save money at the pump with current flex fuel vehicles available in the United States the price of E85 must be much lower than gasoline. Currently E85 is about 5-10% less expensive in most areas. More than 20 fueling stations across the Midwest are selling E85 at the same price as gasoline. E85 also gets less MPG, at least in flex fuel vehicles. In one test, a Chevy Tahoe flex-fuel vehicle averaged 18 MPG [U.S. gallons] for gasoline, and 13 MPG for E85, or 28% fewer MPG than gasoline. In that test, the cost of gas averaged $3.42, while the cost for E85 averaged $3.09, or 90% the cost of gasoline. In another test, however, a fleet of Ford Tauruses averaged only about 6% fewer miles per gallon in the ethanol-based vehicles as compared to traditional, gas-powered Tauruses.

Unless E-85 is CONSIDERABLY less than gas, why go through all the expense of changing over? This alternative gas craze is NOT yielding cheaper than gas savings. We are going through the same grand illusion we did in the 70's. It's a brainwashing to get people weaned off of gas, thinking they are saving the world. What is the LONG term affects on an engine with E-85 even with modifications? If you are after added horsepower get a larger engine, or bobcat it, or put a stroker in it. JMO.


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## printans (Dec 29, 2008)

I've been using E85 in my S10 for a couple years now. The bump in performance is nice, but the cost is a wash because of the fuel economy.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

Snow Performance: Home . 

i know that a lot of people have not heard of running w/m in there engines. i love it
im running water/ meth this gives me a much better octane rating already. very safe for the engine against detonation. but i'm now dependent of the methane. 1 gallon of w/m to 2-3 tanks of gas at the price of $49. bucks a gallon. under normal driving no w/m is used. meaning the tank could last me a very long time but.. the set back here is that if i don't use the w/m the meth loses it's potency over time. but i can still make a $49 gallon of w/m last me over 6-8 tanks of gas with normal driving. simply by keeping the lead out of my foot... so with this being said , i feel i need NOT convert to e85. for this extra octane. and one other thing i'd like to mention is with running this w/m system you can add nitro-methane (small amounts) 20-1 ratio or so. to w/m with an emulsion mix,and get 50-60 more horses out of that fuel as well. however this nitro-meth emulsion mix is very expensive to run. but it might prove to have a use at the track.

i mainly started this thread to get feed back on e85, my ricer buddy seem to be gun ho to get e85 fuel in there cars for the better hp and torc.im not so optimistic to run out and try this. for i would need bigger fuel pump and injector's to start.plus the fuel mileage would suck for the d-d driving.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

FYI....in case you have not read the manual.....

*Notice: Your vehicle was not designed for fuel that
contains methanol. Do not use fuel containing
methanol. It can corrode metal parts in your fuel
system and also damage the plastic and rubber
parts. That damage would not be covered under
your warranty.*

Some gasolines that are not reformulated for low
emissions may contain an octane-enhancing additive
called methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl
(MMT); ask the attendant where you buy gasoline
whether the fuel contains MMT. General Motors does not
recommend the use of such gasolines. Fuels containing
MMT can reduce the life of spark plugs and the
performance of the emission control system may be
affected. The malfunction indicator lamp may turn on.
If this occurs, return to your authorized GM dealer
for service.

If you use methanol be prepared for the consequences.

Gasolines containing oxygenates, such as ethers and
ethanol, and reformulated gasolines may be available in
your area to contribute to clean air. General Motors
recommends that you use these gasolines, particularly if
they comply with the specifications described earlier.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

thanks judge.. this is good info.......all the more reason not to convert.

any one else want to jump in......

Judge; i see you topped the subject of methanol and not ethanol (e85). just to clarify the meth injection is direct and not full strength. 49/51 mix with water. the injection point is at the blower. other wise we all would have problem with window washer fluid.even though washer fluid is only 20 % methanol. test after test if you run straight methanol you will have problem's right off, methanol is very corrosive by it's self. that's why GM wrote that in there manual. it's not meant to be put in to gas in this matter. direct injection is safe.and must be mixed with fuel prior to combustion.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

I get your point but I don't think windshield washer fluid runs _*anywhere *_through your engine...the manual only mentions running methanol in the gasoline...some cleaners and some octane boosters at least used to contain methanol and that was (as I recall) the reason for the warning...that gasoline wouldn't contain 100% methanol but a smaller percentage of methanol blended with gasoline or the "additive."
Bill


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

I don't want to create a new thread for the sake of asking this:

Has anyone added the GM flex fuel components to a GTO?

One of my NSX buddy is doing a turbo'd conversion with E85.

He said he heard some guy by the name of "John" in AZ that has already done a few GTR and blown 350/370z by adding this GM flex fuel part which (for those that don't know) sense what the gasoline to alcohol ratios are and adjust A/F ratios automatically (based on your custom tuning).


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## Zdeuce4 (Dec 3, 2010)

water/meth mixes are cool but e85 is way better.

ive been reading up on other forums and there's a good amount of gtos that are running e85


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm sure there's threads about it on LS1GTO, I know there's a couple guys over there running it, but they're boosted. Sounds like bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and more timing.

An important thing to remember though, is that once you switch to E85, *you have to run 100% E85*, you cannot mix straight gas with E85, like the Flex Fuel vehicles. The only way you can switch back and forth is by making sure you don't mix the two, and having a separate tune to flash for the other fuel.


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## Zdeuce4 (Dec 3, 2010)

Poncho Dan said:


> I'm sure there's threads about it on LS1GTO, I know there's a couple guys over there running it, but they're boosted. Sounds like bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and more timing.
> 
> An important thing to remember though, is that once you switch to E85, *you have to run 100% E85*, you cannot mix straight gas with E85, like the Flex Fuel vehicles. The only way you can switch back and forth is by making sure you don't mix the two, and having a separate tune to flash for the other fuel.


injectors i knew of. but was unsure of the fuel pump thing. 

my last car was a turbo cobalt and we didnt need it. just needed bigger injectors..

ive been very curious of how e85 would do on a heads/cam gto. i already know itll do well on the boosted ones.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Probably as good as any other race fuel. I thought that was the attractive thing in the first place, not having to pay over $4/gallon for 100+ octane.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> I'm sure there's threads about it on LS1GTO, I know there's a couple guys over there running it, but they're boosted. Sounds like bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and more timing.
> 
> An important thing to remember though, is that once you switch to E85, *you have to run 100% E85*, you cannot mix straight gas with E85, like the Flex Fuel vehicles. The only way you can switch back and forth is by making sure you don't mix the two, and having a separate tune to flash for the other fuel.


I was wondering if the Flex fuel technology can be incorporated in the GTO so that it can sense the % amount of ethanol and adjust the A/F ratios that are preset by the tuner.


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

With a different ECU it could probably become a flex fuel vehicle. Been running E85 for a month. I do have HP tuners but the car is running way way better. My timing is increased alot compared to Gas. MPG is done approx 20%
But over here E85 is almost half the price of gas aswell. 

57 injectors have been good for 500 rwhp+ with 58 to 65 PSI of pressure. I am FI so my regulator is boost referred.

Knock retards are highly reduced even though i used to run on 98+ gasoline


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