# L92 Heads&Cam or Turbo?



## trackstar364 (May 3, 2010)

i cant decide whether i want to turbo charge my car or go with this tsp heads and cam package. Precison Race Components Stg 2.5 L92 Heads & Cam
the turbo i was looking was on ebay Pontiac GTO T3T4 Turbo Charger Kit: eBay Motors (item 270504957455 end time Aug-19-10 01:25:17 PDT)

quick questions
do you have to change your intake manifold when you upgrade to the l92's??
would 3.91's be good gears for an auto?
when you change intakes do you have to change throttle body?

if a group of yall could throw in some opinions id be grateful!!!thanks


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## Bluegoat05 (Mar 22, 2010)

well first off im always leary of turbo kits like that on ebay.. just because all the competition has their prices way higher.. im a big you get what you pay for kinda guy i would rather pay more to have a nicer product, even though im broke. and not to metion they say in their add on ebay that it will make 485 hp at 25 psi that is crap cuz if you had 25psi you would be atleast in the neighorhood of 700hp. even though the kit looks really complete, i have looked at these before, but i dont trust them to be on my goat, but thats your choice maybe im a skeptic. i've done a lot of research on l92s, thats what im gonna do, l92s and then supercharge it. yes you do need to change the intake the intake you need is a l76 and you can get them way cheap like 500 complete with throttle body and the works or you could always go aftermarket like a fast intake or something like that.


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## Dutchy (Aug 2, 2010)

The Ebay kit looks great but there is a reason other kits are far more expensive... it just all ends up in quality and your willingness to take the risk messing with your car.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

If you went with the heads/cam you would need a stall for the trans. Either route I would add a trans cooler as well. You will also need to updated wheels/tires so you can get traction along with some suspsnsion mods

I don't think the eBay kits are the worlds greatest, but piping is piping... you can always get an aftermarket turbo if it poops... it won't be too expensive since you don't need anything huge anyway. Smaller makes power more often which is better for street use.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

That price is hard to overlook, specially sense it comes with all those gauges and pods too. The only thing I see is.... doesn't the newer turbos come with ceramic bearings?? This one says "Wet float bearings".


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I have the Texas-Speed/Precision Race Components heads/cam kit in my '06. It was installed back in March and had no issues as of yet. Any quesions you have PM me and I can walk you through every step of the way.

When picking your cam, the biggest you can go due to piston-valve clearance is 231/236. If you pay extra for the optional hollow stem valves like I did, the biggest you can go is 228/232, .595 lift, 114+2 LSA. The hollow stem valves are a little bigger. I've never heard the 231/236, but you can definitely hear the 228/232. The engine idles like a Waaaa-Waaaaa-Waaaaa sound. It totally doesn't sound stock but it doesn't sound Choppity-Choppity-Chop like a Harley like the bigger cams sound. I wanted a bit more sound out of mine so I bought DMH low profile E-cutouts and run them just a smidge open, I mine barely cracked, and you get an awesome Bang-Waaaa-Waaaa-Bang-Waaaa-Waaaa sound that puts the fear of God in anything within a 1 block radius.

You will need an intake manifold. You can pick the oem L76 off the Caddy Escalade, the LS3 off the Vette and Camaro, or the FAST 102 LS3. I chose the FAST.

You will need fuel rails and rail crossover depending on manifold you choose. The FAST guys have 2 different fuel rails, one looks like OEM, the other looks racey, big and red with FAST painted on them. I got the big red ones.

You will need LS3 rocker arms. The aftermarket ones are expensive as hell. I bought the OEM LS3s. Got the set of 16 for about $350. I bought the $200 needle trunnion upgrade kit from Comp Cams. Anything above a mild aftermarket cam or a GM hotcam is too much for the stock trunnions. You will end up with needles in your oil pan, happened to too many people. $550 for bullet proof rockers is a steal. You will need to have access to a small press to press out the old trunnions and press in the new ones. I've seen an add on the other forum where if you buy the trunnions and mail the rockers in to the them, they'll press the new trunnions in for you, so keep yours eyes open for that.

You will need fuel injectors. The stock 33 pounders won't feed the 500-550 hp at the crank you'll have after this build. I called Comp Cams, told them my mods, the guy did some quick math and estimated the hp, and came up with 46 pound injectors. They cost me $400.

You will need a torque converter. I went with a TCI Breakaway 2500 stall to keep it a friendly daily driver for my wife and stepdaughter. Wished I would have went a little bigger. 2500 will support the cam but it's really not enough. I plan on putting a TCI Streetfighter 3000 or Precision Industries Vigilante 3200 converter in as soon as money allows. A tranny cooler is a must with the torque converter. Don't even question not putting one on. The bigger the better, I had them shoehorn one on the front of my radiator that was designed for heavy duty trucks.

While everything is apart a Summit Racing SFI approved harmonic balancer is a good idea too for $200 when you start talking about making power beyond mere bolt ons. The stock pulley starts wobbling when you add alot of power to it. Don't get an underdrive pulley. The 6 hp you're gonna gain isn't worth it and you won't feel it in the car. 

You also have to have headers already on the car or don't even buy the heads and cam. The whole purpose of the heads and cam is to make the car breathe like a raped ape. If it can't exhale, it can't inhale. Hope this helps. PM me if you have anymore questions. I paid about 2 grand for the labor, dyno tune, Royal Purple ATF, and fuel line fittings. End results: 455 RWHP/415 FT-LBS. torque.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I forgot to add that you can have your pistons taken on and have reliefs ground in them or fly cut to give you the added clearance needed for a tradionally larger LS3 cam, something in the high 230s/240s ballpark. Texas-Speed said they've ground as much as .100 off and had no integrity issues. They said you would have to grind/cut about .060 out for the needed clearance. You can also buy a set of aftermarket pistons with the clearance already machined in them. I plan on going that route. I'm looking at some forged Wisecos right now, but there are many brands to choose from.


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## peteyparker (Jul 27, 2010)

Looking at that kit and having some experience with buying "off-brand" turbo's i would never buy it. For one, wet float bearings are a thing of the past, two, that turbo is TINY for a V8, you will spool fast, but it will run out of breath really early. Hence the reason it won't break 500hp on 25lbs. I would go with the heads and cams simply to save yourself the trouble of dealing with replacing most of the parts in the turbo kit within a year, including the turbo. The wastegate will more than likely cause more lag and loss of power than it is worth. And the BOV will not open properly causing compressor surge which will then destroy the bearings in the turbo in turn destroying the turbo...

How do i know this? been there.. done that... learn from other people's mistakes, it's cheaper


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

peteyparker said:


> Looking at that kit and having some experience with buying "off-brand" turbo's i would never buy it. For one, wet float bearings are a thing of the past, two, that turbo is TINY for a V8, you will spool fast, but it will run out of breath really early. Hence the reason it won't break 500hp on 25lbs. I would go with the heads and cams simply to save yourself the trouble of dealing with replacing most of the parts in the turbo kit within a year, including the turbo. The wastegate will more than likely cause more lag and loss of power than it is worth. And the BOV will not open properly causing compressor surge which will then destroy the bearings in the turbo in turn destroying the turbo...
> 
> How do i know this? been there.. done that... learn from other people's mistakes, it's cheaper


Turbo $1500
BOV $400
Wastegate $500

Even with replacing those you are still way ahead of the game with this kit though.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Something just isn't right about that turbo kit. I wouldn't buy it. There is a reason why known manufactures kits are expensive, they are not no thrown together universal stuff. I didn't see anything about injectors, or exhaust piping. Then you have to get a tune. Also nothing is known about the fit and finish of that stuff. Your better off buying something that is proven. And like is said about the turbo 485hp @ 25psi, oooff, amoung other things. What is the brand of all that stuff? I bet it some off brand Chinese made stuff that won't last along time. I would rather buy quality stuff for my ride. Like the saying goes you get what you pay for.

If you want a turbo kit have your own fabbed up and buy your own parts.

Take *dustyminpin's* advice, he got one of the most impressive setups on the board. Go L92 heads and cam.


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## peteyparker (Jul 27, 2010)

jpalamar said:


> Turbo $1500
> BOV $400
> Wastegate $500
> 
> Even with replacing those you are still way ahead of the game with this kit though.


yes that may be true, but lets look a little closer.

The couplers will fail without even trying (cheap but still)
The gauges are probably not very accurate (not as cheap)
That battery relocation doesn't look like it has a switch which is required for most tracks.
any bigger of a turbo and that intercooler will probably be too small (a quality one wouldn't be cheap
chances of that piping actually fitting and not needing to buy more are slim to none.
i don't see any kind of manifold for it, that will get spendy
as mentioned before, exhaust, tune (which would happen with the heads as well) both will be expensive to have made.

not trying to start a debate or heated discussion, just pointing out what i see. I love boosted cars, but after piecing mine together with cheap(er) parts, i really wish i would have waited and bought quality from the get go.

oh and one more thing. even with that turbo, 25lbs on a stock block sounds pretty extreme


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

peteyparker said:


> yes that may be true, but lets look a little closer.
> 
> The couplers will fail without even trying (cheap but still)
> The gauges are probably not very accurate (not as cheap)
> ...


So do you know of any quality turbo kits that include everything needed and won't need to be upgraded to be acceptable?


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

What's a comparable STS turbo kit cost? I went to their website to check it out but saw no pricing. A page came up that wanted me to send them my info and a dealer would contact me. I didn't want to take the time to find out and don't want STS spamming me, lol, so I closed the page.


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## peteyparker (Jul 27, 2010)

Rukee said:


> So do you know of any quality turbo kits that include everything needed and won't need to be upgraded to be acceptable?


Sadly no.. I have looked some, but have yet to find anything I would consider quality. Your best bet would be to piece one together, might be a little bit more spendy, but you will get EXACTLY what you want. Best "bang for the buck" if you ask me.

I do not really care for the STS kits.. Heard many bad stories from locals around here about them (i live in Utah). They also don't seem to be very efficient...

again these are just my opinions though.. really you need to do a lot of research before you go spending any money on parts.


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

dusty, are you over at ls1gto.com? they've got an L92-on-an-LS2 thread going with some good info. i used it when building the 6.0/L92 for my nova. post 7 has some great info. guy that started the thread has a decent cam, stock L92's, and ported LS3 intake and pulled 451/403 to the wheels and retained good driveability.

you can't go wrong with an L92/LS3 setup and decent cam. i'd choose that every time over an ebay turbo kit.


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## 740tank (Mar 23, 2009)

there is a reason the kit is 1600. and a good one is 5000. its cheap stuff that will murder your car if something goes wrong. never forget if its to good to be true it probably is. And you get what you pay for.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

hookemdevils22 said:


> dusty, are you over at ls1gto.com? guy that started the thread has a decent cam, stock L92's, and ported LS3 intake and pulled 451/403 to the wheels and retained good driveability. QUOTE]
> 
> That's about what I pulled (455/415). Maybe the few extra ponies and torque are from the FAST 102 vs. the ported LS3, who knows? I do know that Jeremy Formato down at Faster Proms wants to get his hands on my FAST. He said he hardly ever gets to port them. I called Comp Cams and asked them about the porting. They said they put lines on the inside of the intake manifold where to port and they don't void your warranty as long as you don't go past those lines. Jeremy is down in the Tampa Bay area where my wife is originally from. I don't know if it's worth the roughly 6 hp increase I'd see vs. the standard FAST 102. He said he could get me more (10 or 15) with another dyno tune, but damn, I'm about sick of shelling out all this tall cash for guys to program the ecu.
> 
> And yes, I am a member at LS1, joined roughly the same time I joined this forum. I found this forum to be much more friendly from the get go and spent 99% of my time here. The LS1 forum's "callus **** moderator" as he calls himself and I had a major, shall we say, difference of opinion 2 months ago, and I've only been back over there once to say congrats to Svede for his intake making GM High Tech Performance. I am not banned over there, but don't feel welcome and don't go out of my way to be friendly the those that run the site either, lol. My home is here. (I do wander around on the LS2.com website from time to time, but mostly to stir up chit with the vette guys, lol).


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## 740tank (Mar 23, 2009)

try( images for twin turbo gto )


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

dustyminpin said:


> What's a comparable STS turbo kit cost? I went to their website to check it out but saw no pricing. A page came up that wanted me to send them my info and a dealer would contact me. I didn't want to take the time to find out and don't want STS spamming me, lol, so I closed the page.


:lol:
They used to have prices back in the day well 2004/5. When I priced the bare bone kit no intercooler, guages, manual adjustable wastegate I want to say 5-6psi, nothing too major it was around $4k. Add the intercooler, gauges, upgrade the wastegate, bov, injectors, tune, ect. it was around $8K.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Three turbo kits was/is avail for the GTO:
*STS:* Squires Turbo Systems - Turbocharged Innovation!
- I heard these have alot of lag, some say differant
*APS:* APS Products - North American Specification Vehicles
- I heard they are not making turbo kits for the GTO anymore, but have made some powerfull GTO's. I seen one in person I thought the fit and finish was pretty good. I've read stories about the turbos not sure what was going on. Not sure was it an isolated issue or what.
*GEN TT turbo kits:* LS1 Turbo - Home
- Haven't heard too much about them there is a few people on the other forum that had them. I think they are big in the AU.

You can pretty much YouTube all of the turbo kits above. I'm pretty sure you can shake some trees and find more info from actual owners to find out more reliable info.


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## peteyparker (Jul 27, 2010)

GM4life said:


> Three turbo kits was/is avail for the GTO:
> *STS:* Squires Turbo Systems - Turbocharged Innovation!
> - I heard these have alot of lag, some say differant
> *APS:* APS Products - North American Specification Vehicles
> ...


good to know, that APS kit is pretty sick!


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## georgia31501 (Sep 26, 2010)

all u need is a sts turbo kit,they have a direct bolt on kit and works really good when your car is mainly stock


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