# Silversport's BIG Adventure...



## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

...so...as some of you know...I had an appointment with the dealership to have them look at my steering/tire problem this morning...got there bright and early...when they opened the doors a 0h-dark-thirty (0630)...
Signed in and told them about the steering wheel shake but I held back that my mechanics already told me the tires were out of round...a gamble I took just to see how good the mechanics would be able to diagnose this problem (since they never wanted to hear my thoughts before and somewhat rightly so...hey...they're the doctors...)...decided to get the oil changed with fresh Mobil 1...a lube and look at two minor problems...gave them my info and my cell phone...I neglected to remind them that I would be hanging around as this dealership is a ways from my home and it shouldn't take too long for this small list of things...my mechanic told me ANYONE should be able to see the tires are out of round...uhhhh...they rebalance the wheels...place 2.5 oz on one wheel and .5 oz on the other...

...after three hours, I stopped back by the dealership and told them "I know you didn't call but I wanted to check the GTO's progress as I have to hang around (NOW I tell them...)...the reply I get from the same service tech is..."Are you being helped?"...gulp and repeat the last sentence..."The oil is changed so I would guess they are half way done as there is nothing in the computer on it."..(halfway???...you got that all from no information???)...later he tells me they fixed everything and it'll be 10 minutes for the paperwork and I'll be on my way...arty:

20 minutes later he tells me they are cleaning my car and it'll be right around...Ahhh...here it is, and I see that it even got wet...A+ for the good thoughts...C- on the effort...off I go...it is nearly Noon.

Get almost all the way home and my first opportunity to get it up to speed away from traffic...the steering wheel wiggle is still there (but better)...I see they aired the tires to 30psi (isn't it supposed to be 35psi for 17's???...)...NOW when I hit the brakes the steering wheel wiggles like crazy (okay...in the interest of total disclosure...probably not like crazy... )...I drive all the way back to the dealership...

At the dealership I see my service guy...he ignores me (c'mon Bill there ARE other people there) but the service guy I had from LAST YEAR sees me and says "GTO guy!"..."Uhhh ohhh...what's wrong???"...I tell him and he takes it right back in...the wheel balancer comes out and agrees to take my car for another drive and agrees with me...I am told two more hours for a rotor resurface (remember...my GTO has 4900 miles on it!)...I snapped a little and said...the car is brand new...but...he tells me...Bill...you have to bring it back next week for the ordered part and this is just an inconvenience...if it is okay, have both done at once or I can wait and they will do it now...he is being reasonable so I try to be...apologize for the snap (it is now 1300 hours) and say I'll bring it back when the other part is in.

I go back to my mechanics back home and discuss my options...they make some calls to B.F. Goodrich dealers to try and get me in but it is afternoon on a Friday...no can do...then I am told to go to Sam's Club (I am a business member) as they can take care of me a they are a retailer...after wasting THAT effort (not a retailer that can warranty tires not bought there)...I go back home...

I look on the net...I call B.F. Goodrich and after giving a lot of information I get addresses for the proper warranty outlets...I head out to one of them...it is 1500 (3 PM for you civilians... )...

Discount Tire is authorized...they are REALLY busy but I am surprised at how nice they seem to be...they look at my tires...thirteen months old to the day...note to self...13 months is MORE than 12 months for the 100% warranty on Goodrich tires...

Discount tires have all my wheels off...balances them...checks the tread down to 7/16"s...down 2/16"s (or do you say an eighth )...guess what...they tell me after about two hours there...B.F. Goodrich WILL cover a portion of the tires...even if I replace my tires with new Goodrich tires (that have to be ordered)...I will be out of pocket for about a third of the cost of tires...not bad if you think how bad it could be but not really great coverage for a defect that Discount Tire agrees with me was a defect in manufacture...obviously not from anything I did but...13 months IS longer than 12 months...4900 miles...there'll be no joy in mudville tonight Mighty Casey!...

To make matters worse...they only have a couple of other tires in stock in my size and one is a Michelin and it would be over $200 a tire and the other is a Yokohama NON-speed rated tire for luxury passenger cars...no thanks...for now...they CAN order me just about anything I want...I asked about Goodyear F1 A/S and the ubiquitous General Exclaim UHP (they would have to order from elsewhere as they don't usually carry it)...it is now 1730 (5:30 PM)

So...what did Bill learn or reaffirm on his BIG adventure???

The Dealership has some nice people but mine at least is not my first choice for ANY work...

My local mechanics are right on the money as usual and worthy of my business the last 24 years...

Sam's Club sometimes has good prices...other times not...

Discount tire did all this work on my tires...offered to order me near ANY tire I want...rebalanced my tires...correctly diagnosed the out of round condition...used the proper torque stick when tightening my lug nuts...added 5psi to all my tires to make them the PROPER 35psi and didn't charge me a nickel...

Now...what tires to get for unpredictable Chicagoland weather...!...:seeya:...:cheers

Bill


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Your dealer sent you to a tire place? Unbelievable. Pontiac should be making the tires right. THEY should be finding you new tires and installing them. I have never heard of a dealer sending their customer to Sams Club. Your dealer must take care of warranty work not a discount shoppers club. You have more patients than me. 

IMO after getting that service, I would have returned the car, and demanded a loaner until they get a rep from BF Goodrich in there to look at it and figure out how they are going to handle this. I would further tell them this car is unsafe and you are driving right over to your State Police Barracks and have their inspections gurus take a look at this. Even if you don't want to do this, make a bluff sound believable and see if they bite, if not call the State Police, they oversee inspections. Your tires are obviously defective, I'd get it in writing from a tire specialty place as proof from a certified tire dealer. 

Any work you have performed outside your dealer, I would call the President of the dealership and schedule a face to face and describe what you went through (being sent to an outside source, I am sure he'd love to hear that) and present him any bills from an outside source you had gotten, and tell him
you prefer cash, but you'll work with him if all he can give you is a check.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

How many miles do you have on your tires? Maybe they developed a flat spot from being parked long periods of time without being driven?


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm with Judge on this, you are a very patient man. Around the take the car somewhere else for the tire warranty point, the would have figured out they pulled a pretty hard to remove pin on a grenade with a short fuse. There would be customers in the sales area tht knew how I was treated. 

I would have letters in the mail too the owner of the dealership, or the General Manager and General Motors. 

I definately would consider another dealership for any future purchases and I'd let this dealership know that and why.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

fergyflyer said:


> I'm with Judge on this, you are a very patient man. Around the take the car somewhere else for the tire warranty point, the would have figured out they pulled a pretty hard to remove pin on a grenade with a short fuse. There would be customers in the sales area tht knew how I was treated.
> 
> I would have letters in the mail too the owner of the dealership, or the General Manager and General Motors.
> 
> I definately would consider another dealership for any future purchases and I'd let this dealership know that and why.


:agree My local Pontiac Buick Dealership is family owned in a small town. The dealership and service department is a top grade facility. They have what they call the B-Club, probally named after them, Bobbitt Pontiac Buick. The B-Club is free oil, oil filter, and lube for the warranty period of your vehicle purchased with them. They do an outstanding job, check air pressure, all fluids etc. They will even clean your car inside and out if you wish for them to do so after servicing your vehicle. 

Yes, they are considered family to me and yes, that is where I purchased my first Pontiac Firebird after high school. After that things just snowballed. 27 vehicles since I had my license at age 17. I am now 37. Never totally satisfied until the goat came along!:cheers


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Sorry for any confusion...my dealership didn't send me anywhere else...they don't think there is anything wrong with the tires...it was my mechanics at the place I usually get work done that suggested Sam's (because they were listed on the B.F. Goodrich website)...
B.F. Goodrich told me to take it to one of their authorized warranty claim centers and Discount Tire was the one near me...
No flat spots on the tires...there seems to be some confusion with this as well...the tires are out of round...they were made this way...sitting for a hundred years won't make them egg shaped...they were defective to begin with and I waited too long to take it back...I really thought they were just out of balance as the dealership suggested but when they couldn't fix it today...I took my GTO to the mechanics that usually work on my cars locally (I don't like dealing with dealerships...I never trust their work...this is a great example of why I don't trust them to do it right)
4900 miles...13 months so they are pro-rated on the tread depth...it is all an equation from Goodrich so I won't get any better luck anywhere else...
I am thinking of going back to the dealership with what I have been told but I am not sure another lost day ending up no closer to tires is worth the continued hassle...thanks for the support though...

Bill


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Take it to a higher level Bill. Go right to the top. The Owner, with proof in writing from a reputable tire specialist (NOT a Sam's club jockey)they are out of round, and their conclusion as to why.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Judge...I think I may head back to the Pontiac Dealer today and see what they will do for me...they seem VERY interested in getting the perfect feedback on their work and I guess I will see just how interested they are to do something for me...I am anticipating a roadblock but at least I can get some answer...I believe on Saturday they only do tires and oil changes...sure it will be busy but perhaps someone will be there that can cut through the redtape...I'll report back here and thanks for the support...
Bill


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

GOOD LUCK.:cheers


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Thanks Judge!...just got back from the dealership...I got there when they opened this morning at 0730...I was heartened a bit when I saw the service guy that recognizes me and has been empathetic in the past...told him the story...he said he had to talk with the head guy on Saturday...I waited a bit...knocked around the showroom...a while later I was called over to the service guy and the head guy...I was given the speech about flat spotting (my low mileage) and everything else that could be causing the steering wheel shake and head guy told me our B.F. Goodrich tires have nylon plys instead of steel belts and are more susceptible to wheel shake...anyway...they will be sending my car to a place that has road force balancing...they will evaluate the tires and if they are out of round, they should be replaced, no charge to me...I am currently driving a 4 cylinder G6 also covered under my warranty...SO...I am a bit hopeful that Monday or Tuesday I will be getting a call to pick up my GTO with new G Force KDWs on it...keep your fingers crossed and I'll report back with whatever the findings are...thanks everyone for the support...I _*really*_ appreciate it...here's to hoping I get these replaced and am not out of pocket any cash... 
Bill


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

You're welcome. Persistence pays off. You'll get a new set at no cost to you yet! 
It's a shame some just don't take care of a customer right the first time and make that person go through a "game" of will he or will he not come back? 

I didn't know our tires are nylon instead of steel belts.....interesting.

Hopefully they will do what's right and replace those.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

well I'll be dipped... BFGoodrich Tires | g-Force? T/A® KDWS | Tire Overview
I didn't know they weren't steel belted radials either...

Bill


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Weird. Nice to know this....Thanks!


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

*UPDATE:*

well...I am a bit disappointed and my confidence in my dealership is not real high but...I got the call this early evening that the road force balancing and whatever hocus pocus they had done showed two of my tires balanced and two did not...according to the guy at Pontiac both right side tires were bad and both left side are fine...Discount tire said both fronts were real bad and the backs were a little bad and my usual mechanics said all four were out of round...anyway...they say my car should be ready to be picked up tomorrow afternoon...I was told that after spending most of the day trying to locate 2 new B.F. Goodrich tires, they had two all along at the dealership...we'll see how it is tomorrow...
Thanks again for all the support,
Bill


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

HA!...so after having it *another* day...I get a call from the *other* service guy (the one that doesn't recognize me after three hours)...seems they finished my car but want to *watch it* for another day...hey maybe they just want to really watch it while they work...maybe my car will be on display...uh, didn't they just replace the tires???...and only two of them at that???...:willy:...:rofl:...:seeya:
Bill


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## UdnUdnGTO (Jan 30, 2006)

Being a student of Human behavior, I never cease to be amazed at how STUPID people can act. As though you were going to ride around on those tires. After all this the only thing your dealership has accomplished is to MAKE sure that you will not buy another car from them unless they have the ONLY one in town. Sadly, this whole thing should have been resolved the first time. We are not mentally challenged, we aren't somehow out for the "free lunch." For God's sake do what is right!
Sorry for your abuse, another person victimized by people who have not brains, rather take what they have and play with them. I often wonder what people think?? or the lack of it.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Amen. 

Service Writer's School 

The Service Writer's Bible

Chapter 1.....Feeling the Customer Out; Feed em a line of BS and see if they buy it, if they come back we'll go from there. No matter what they say... respond with.... "We couldn't duplicate the problem."

Chapter 2........Talking in Parables; Never let a customer think they know better than you, razzle, dazzle them with meaningless jargon. Even if there is an obvious problem make the customer think this is the way it's supposed to be. 
Example: Customer Smith comes to your desk and says his tires are out of round, he insists you look at it. When you look at the tire you see it has 4 90* angles to it and is perfectly square. Tell the customer it has flat spots on the tire which is normal and within warranty guidelines, and they will round over as they drive it. Tell the customer the more miles they put on the tire the rounder it will get. Tell them it is clearly stated in the manual.

Sound familiar?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

silversport said:


> HA!...so after having it *another* day...I get a call from the *other* service guy...seems they finished my car but want to *watch it* for another day...hey maybe they just want to really watch it while they work...maybe my car will be on display...uh, didn't they just replace the tires???...and only two of them at that???...:willy:...:rofl:...:seeya:
> Bill



Maybe they are watching to see if the tires try and turn into squares?


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

we'll see perhaps today...unless they have more "beta testing" or it needs to hit the Nurburgring before I get it back...wanna bet they put the two new tires on one side and the other side will have the one's with 4900 miles???......they are kicking and screaming to cover this VIA warranty...
Bill


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Picked up my GTO this evening...it seems they did replace the two right side (passenger) tires...front looks brand new...I am not sure on the back one...car was dirty (they don't have to clean it but I thought they would have)...tires are a nice brown color...can't wait to wash the car and detail it...then I'll feel a bit better about this...I do have to say that the "G Force Balance" they got done at a nearby Cadillac Dealer seems to have done the trick...no vibration felt on the ride home...no vibration in the wheel when decelerating...so I got that going for me...which is nice...
Thanks again for the support.
Bill


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

Glad to hear you got *some* relief from the dealer.
Now, you'll be good to go for another.........4900 miles! lol.

Larry


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

:cheers Bill..

It's a shame they didn't do this on your first visit. They were hoping you didn't come back. Your persistence paid off and this was just for them to honor a warranty claim. 

Hopefully that problem is gone for good.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Well thanks and I really appreciate the support here...if Discount Tire had had them in stock I would have four new tires and my bank account would be lighter by more than $300...but you guys convinced me to go back and be persistent, firm but fair...losing your temper rarely gets you good service in my opinion and hopefully this'll be it...
Bill


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