# 05 stick vs. auto



## Bob Mc 2316 (Feb 1, 2005)

having just found this board, and I think it's great! This is my dilemma. I have the first deposit on a 05 GTO at my local dealer. The first car coming in is a cyclone gray metallic automatic. I was told that once that car comes in on 3/1/05 he can dealer trade for a quicksiler in a stick. Not a problem! The problem is that my wife can't drive a stick! I've always owned sticks and I'm afraid I'm going to lose the fun and some performance. Can anyone give me their opinion?


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## Duck916 (Nov 12, 2004)

The car is a blast to drive with either transmission, so you can't go wrong. 

If you go for the stick, I'd say it is one of the easiest to use--the clutch engagement is extremely gradual and consistent. It would be a good car on which to teach someone....


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

There is no question what to do. Get a stick teach her how to drive. The auto is for the ladies. It's called chickshifting for a reason.


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

The auto is actually faster than the stick(according to all the tests I have read so far). It gets worse gas milage however, and you'll gave to pay a $1,300 Gas Guzzler tax with the auto.



Plus the manual is always more fun. arty:


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## cuspid (Dec 8, 2004)

I bought an automatic in case my wife wanted to drive the car and she never drove it anyway. I hated not having the stick. Buy the stick if its your car and she is just an occasional driver.


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## bnvus (Nov 19, 2004)

HeHeHe...wife can't drive a stick...that is one way to ensure your clutch is safe.


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## GTOBert (Jan 26, 2005)

That is the best way to keep her from driving it. Stay with the 6 speed


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

My wife can't really drive stick, so I got an A4 and have no regrets. I think it's actually _more_ fun, and with the performance of this car, especially the '05, the transmission is not going to make a damn bit of difference to you. .1s of a difference in performance is nothing, especially considering the manual driver would have make perfect shifts to achieve it. Whereas all an auto driver has to do, basically, is step on the go pedal and keep 'er straight.

The misconception that manual is for "real men" and automatic is for "ladies", is exactly that, a misconception. Try telling a Top Fuel drag racer that his car is for "ladies". 

This argument is all a matter of opinion and thus can never have a winner. Get what ever you want, don't let anyone else convince you otherwise.


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## taylor65 (Aug 14, 2004)

It depends on what you like - if you like a manual, get a manual. A friend of mine bought an auto Firebird WS6 so his wife could drive it and ended up trading it in for a manual within 3 months. As long as she has a car she likes, it hopefully won't be a problem.


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## EdwardC (Oct 8, 2004)

In bracket racing , an auto is the way to go to insure consistent ETs. I didn't win a buttload of trophies with my old '86 Grand National by guessing the exact split second when to shift - I just put it in drive, warmed the tires, power braked and left the line.


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## Legionaire (Jan 23, 2005)

Then again if your like me and prefer to force staighten the twisties or autocross get the m6. Im yet to see any type of racing other then drag racing use autos.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2005)

*stick with stick*

auto for consistancy, had a ta ram air autows6, a z28 auto, some times in my goat m6 i forget to down shift (old age) the manual is more fun,especially in the twisties,plus she cant drive it!!!!! also check with the dork in the "garage talk section" he may have some coupons or free depends for 
your first wfo launch! dismissed.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

ramairws6 said:


> also check with the dork in the "garage talk section" he may have some coupons or free depends for
> your first wfo launch! dismissed.


Welcome to moderation!


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## Bob Mc 2316 (Feb 1, 2005)

Lol!


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## Legionaire (Jan 23, 2005)

Hey Bob why don't you post some pics of that Cyclone goat???


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## Bob Mc 2316 (Feb 1, 2005)

As soon as it's in the driveway!


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

TexasRealtor is right! I've done a lot of research about the transmissions lately. A LOT of people think manual transmission is the best and they make fun of people who don't use manual transmissions, but they're living in the past. Maybe in the 80s (and earlier) manual was the way to go for striaght line performance, but now the computers in many sports cars can change gears faster than any human. The GTO's A4 included. If you get an automatic and you race an average-good driver with a manual, you will beat him with no contest. You will even beat a professional driver if you get the launch right.

My brother drives an '04 Cobra. Saturday night, I am going to bet money that his friend's '04 GTO is going to win (0-60) because that GTO is automatic. (You heard me, I said '04 GTO, not '05.) I've watched my brother drive before and he changes gears faster than anyone I know, but he's no pro and I think he's in for a real wake up call Saturday. I am going to llaauugghh like there's no tomorrow because he calls me all kinds of names for thinking that auto is better than manual.

Now, as far as fun factor, manual may be better for most people...just not for me. It's more annoying than fun. People say they like the control they have over the car. That reminds me of the stories my dad used to tell me about how the old giant computers used to work. Engineers used to pull out and push in cards and plugs to get the Computer do what they wanted.

Manual is better for gas milage. Can't dispute that.

BTW, I like the '04 GTO better than the '04 Cobra. The Cobra's interior is so cheap...almost embarrassing.


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## Legionaire (Jan 23, 2005)

Everyone agreed that the auto is better for a straight line drag race!!! and manual is better for road racing!! F1 which is "THE" most expensive racing there is doesn't use autos. (also the most boreing racing!) Nascar almost never change gears at most ovals and there is a reason for this!!!


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

Legionaire said:


> Everyone agreed that the auto is better for a straight line drag race!!! and manual is better for road racing!! F1 which is "THE" most expensive racing there is doesn't use autos. (also the most boreing racing!) Nascar almost never change gears at most ovals and there is a reason for this!!!


I don't race in Nascar or F1 and I don't think the original poster does either. I'm talking about reality. For streets in this country (USA), auto is best as far as performance.

As for everyone agreeing that auto is better for drag, I don't care how many people agree. I'm addressing the original poster and he asked for opinions. Most people believe manual is best for all types of sport driving...they just haven't posted on this thread.


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## Legionaire (Jan 23, 2005)

I only used those as examples! and I realize there are probably no NASCAR or F1 drivers posting here! The point I was trying to make useing those examples is that if the pros in those types of racing use manual theres a reason for it! If an auto were better in the twisties all road racing cars would use it. While your right that auto are more practical on our streets with traffic etc. Performance wise a manual is better if you drive hard through a lot of curves! With todays technologies the difference in gas milage between an auto and a manual is minimal.


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

What about the cool factor. Letting the engine rev, and deciding when to change gears.....Plus there's that cool factor. Who wants to put their auto in N to rev thier motor, seems weird to me.


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## Skobie (Dec 28, 2004)

I like manual tranny cars b/c I find it easier to use the motor to modulate weight transfer for braking, cornering and acceleration. That being said, I don't have much experience with modern auto trannies, lock-up converters, or drive by wire. Maybe they do a good job with those things now.

I always thought it was funny that I enjoyed power windows, power locks, power seats, my automatic garage door opener, but I just HAD to have the manual tranny! :lol:


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## bnvus (Nov 19, 2004)

...plus it is cheaper to replace a clutch down the road Versus the a new A4 tranny.


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## GTOJon (Jan 25, 2005)

It all comes down to what each of us likes better. And just because a guy chooses an A4 over an M6 doesn't make him a 'lady' or a 'pu**y' either. I'm getting an A4 because it is my main mode of transportation for work thru traffic and all. Living in such a populated area, all I want is a relaxing commute and power and comfort when I need and want it.

My father has an M6 '97 Z28 and I take that out for when I feel like have fun with a stick. Besides, I burn too much gas with an M6 because I have too much fun with it. IMO, after a while a manual trans. just becomes a pain in the butt for the above reasons. I do enjoy my dads car, maybe because that's a once in a while thing...altho, I never used an M6 for my 'everyday' purposes so I can't completely say I wouldn't like it.

You like what you like and I like what I like...just my 2 cents.


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## jontyrees (Dec 21, 2004)

I have a M6, but I think I would be faster around town with an A4. The GTO box isn't particularly slick, what with long throws and all, and you do have get the shifting perfect to be faster with manual - no laziness allowed. It's just more fun to me, feeling more connected to the car. I probably also get worse mileage around town from shifting late, letting the revs get up there.

One thing I would recommend is to get an automatic if you drive in heavy traffic a lot. All that shifting gets to be a real PITA in stop'n'go traffic.


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## fwyflyr (Nov 27, 2004)

I agree that A4 is faster in the 1/4 if it has been tuned. But, for Me m6 is far more fun, in a visceral sort of way! Besides mine is not a daily driver!


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## C5ORGTO (Dec 30, 2004)

Honestly, I've never owned a stick before buying my 98 6-speed Vette. 6 speeds are fun but shifting gets old after awhile. Actually no, it doesn't get that old. After sitting all winter the 6-speed is a joy to drive. Believe it or not I think a Auto would be faster for me. The GTO has a 3.43 rear end weather your get the stick or the auto. I would think the Auto would be real close in speed. They say a 1/10th 0-60. 5.3 stick, 5.4 auto.

arty:


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

:cheers got my gto last tuesday same color cyclone grey metallic and after owning a 92 5.7 z28 a4, it gets pretty boring not shifting something. If your getting a high performance car get a 6spd. you control the car. and according to the pontiac the auto is slower than the 6spd


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

m8d2run said:


> :cheers got my gto last tuesday same color cyclone grey metallic and after owning a 92 5.7 z28 a4, it gets pretty boring not shifting something. If your getting a high performance car get a 6spd. you control the car. and according to the pontiac the auto is slower than the 6spd


According to Pontiac, huh? I'd like to see where you read that.

Pontiac claims to the contrary! Look at this link and read the paragraph that starts with "After drving both..."

http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3233

People like you are the ones that spread false rumors about the auto.


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

what an idiot, chris you are posting something that is not from pontiac
its people like you that think they know everything grow up buddy by the way do you even own a gto??? :confused


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

I'd rather have a fun "slower" car then a girl shifting auto. :cheers


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

an auto is fine but I own an auto z28 camaro, and I wanted more control of the car. Its funny how you post something and little kids such as chris attack you, if you disagree disagree. the 04 a4 gto is slower to 60 and so is the 05 a4 gto.


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

I don't mind when people disagree. I attack YOU because you flat out lie about what Pontiac says. YOU are the child that makes up ridiculous lies and spreads them others. Do you still tell people there's a boogey man in your closet?

And II savy, you must be this guy's playground playmate. You call auto owners girls?? Well I call you a doo-doo head. Did I put that in a way that you understand? Your avatar fits you well.


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

Which guys playground playmate? I'm newer here I really don't know anyone at all. Not sure what you mean.

I never said the auto owners were girls, It's the shifting....chick shifting. Hey I didn't make it up. Manual was always the way to go. It's not my fault, my father 25 some years ago started that. Seriously you've never noticed woman drive automatics ALMOST always? It's way easier to drive.


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

II-Savy said:


> Which guys playground playmate? I'm newer here I really don't know anyone at all. Not sure what you mean.
> 
> I never said the auto owners were girls, It's the shifting....chick shifting. Hey I didn't make it up. Manual was always the way to go. It's not my fault, my father 25 some years ago started that. Seriously you've never noticed woman drive automatics ALMOST always? It's way easier to drive.


This guy is the living example of why people think manuals are superior. 25 years ago, automatic transmissions did not belong in a high-performance car. But that was a long time ago and a lot has changed since then. Technology doesn't stand still for generations. People believe that manuals are superior because that is what the case was in earlier generations. This perception gets passed down and these people influence their friends and pretty soon everyone believes that manuals are the best.

Everyone buys a Mustang because that's what everyone else has so therefore it must be the best.

If you start telling someone the truth about their decision, they'll go crazy because they can't handle someone bursting their bubble. They'll even make up lies to protect their image.

As for the term, girl-shifting: If that's what they called it at your elementary school, fine. But girl-shifting would beat your a$$ around town and at the strip.


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

Beat my ass around town and at the strip?

This would be my daily driver. So I'm not so sure about the "strip" and such. The manual is really driving the car. Deciding when to shift, not when a computer tells me to. 

It's chick shifting, and my father introduced it to me a long time ago. You can stop with the child referances. I have a little guy, that's in my avatar. 

Hey I understand if some people can't use all 4 of their appendages at once.


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

m8d2run,

the link I posted is a reliable source writing about what the car's engineers told them. GRANTED that is not "admissable in court" hard evidence, but I'll put it up against your article any day...But wait...where is your article? You don't have one. Why? Because Pontiac NEVER said that the '05's M6 is faster than the A4. That is the sole reason why I targeted you. There are people here who are going to believe that BS and they're going to use that as one of the reasons to buy an M6 over an A4. If they chose a manual over an auto, that is fine. I don't have a problem with that AT ALL. But I would have a problem if they chose the M6 because of your dumb comment about what Pontiac said.


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## 97GTP (Feb 8, 2005)

Now, I havn't looked into the GTO ETs yet. But I do know the LS1 F-body auto was consistantly quicker than the M6s with 13.0s. M6s being consistant in the 13.30s at higher MPH than the autos.



BUT a certain magazine company (?) took the 'stock' M6 to 12.89---
- probably on a closed track, perfect prep, powershifting the hell out of her, with a tail wind, and 1.8 short times.


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

II-Savy said:


> Beat my ass around town and at the strip?
> 
> This would be my daily driver. So I'm not so sure about the "strip" and such. The manual is really driving the car. Deciding when to shift, not when a computer tells me to.
> 
> ...


If you don't care about the strip, think about the street light. And don't start giving me this stuff about it being your daily driver. If you weren't VERY concerned about performance, you wouldn't have bought this car. It doesn't look "nice". It's not the only car with a manual transmission. And it's not the best with gas-milage.

I can shift gears in the A4 anytime I want. Sometimes when I know it's not going to respond with the gear that I want it to, I give it a burst of throttle and it changes as fast as if I changed the gear myself. I'm not saying that I have as much control as I would with a manual. If someone wants to have maximum control of their car, nothing beats a manual. There's no way I can dispute that and I'm not trying to. All I'm doing in this thread is defending the A4 from people who tell lies about it or who stereotype it by giving it childish names.


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

lets see chris now you are going to start thinking for people?? if they don't agree with what I am saying fine. Disagree, but you start acting like a child attacking or no "targeting" me because of my statement you show just how foolish you really are. This is a discussion board not a debate. I have an 05 gto do you????? I also own a 92 5.7 350 Z28 with some mods and 01 yukon XL.. what do you own????? If you want to debate and not discuss fine you will lose


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

m8d2run said:


> lets see chris now you are going to start thinking for people?? if they don't agree with what I am saying fine. Disagree, but you start acting like a child attacking or no "targeting" me because of my statement you show just how foolish you really are. This is a discussion board not a debate. I have an 05 gto do you????? I also own a 92 5.7 350 Z28 with some mods and 01 yukon XL.. what do you own????? If you want to debate and not discuss fine you will lose



First of all, a discussion board can be a debate board! There's nothing wrong with debating. In fact, if you post on a public forum, EXPECT to be debated! But I don't even want to debate you. All I want is proof of your claim. Saying that Pontiac said that the A4 is slower is a profound statement that would eliminate all doubt of which transmissions is better. I don't believe Pontiac said this. I think you made it up. When you show me your source, I'll show you pictures of my GTO. :lol: I did ask you first.

And I'm not thinking for other people. I just don't want your lies influencing what other people think. I want them to have ACCURATE info to make their decision.


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

the photo is waiting for approval you can see it in the gallery. get a gto first then talk about it you don't have one because your still in grade school.
Do your homework first then bug someone else kid. :lol:


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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

m8d2run said:


> the photo is waiting for approval you can see it in the gallery. get a gto first then talk about it you don't have one because your still in grade school.
> Do your homework first then bug someone else kid. :lol:


What photo is waiting for approval? What the hell are you talking about? I didn't say I wanted to see pictures. I just cannot get through to you. I read your posts and it looks like a mentally ill person wrote them. I don't know why you're not understanding what I'm writing.

Read carefully. I'm not trying to debate who owns which car. I'm not thinking for other people. I'm not claiming the auto is superior. You made a post about what Pontiac said. I'm asking you to back that up. If you can't, just say so. Everytime I ask for this, you throw words like, "kid", "idiot", "foolish". You ask which cars I own. You complain about whether debating is acceptable or not. It makes it look like you've been caught in a lie and you're desperately fighting to change the subject.


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

as i say you haven't shown me any proof to substanciate your claim.
the picture is in regards to the performance nubers of the 05 GTO.
and you have no basis or any inkling of proof as to what your are talking about.
finish your homework. :seeya: next subject


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## Legionaire (Jan 23, 2005)

I really don't want to get in the middle of this but... Everything I have read or seen ie. Motorweek, 05 GTO brochure etc. says that 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are 1/10 of sec. quicker in the auto! Would I change to an auto if I could?? HELL NO!!! but then again I have also read that the m6 tends to have more wheel spin then the auto which would contibute to these times!! All in all in a drag race between the two all comes down to driver!


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

Legionaire said:


> I really don't want to get in the middle of this but... Everything I have read or seen ie. Motorweek, 05 GTO brochure etc. says that 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are 1/10 of sec. quicker in the auto! Would I change to an auto if I could?? HELL NO!!! but then again I have also read that the m6 tends to have more wheel spin then the auto which would contibute to these times!! All in all in a drag race between the two all comes down to driver!


Yeah, the manual driver. If hes not perfect, hes gonna lose.


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

^ True, but what would he loose? The "race"? You mean your licence(sp) after your caught.


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## Legionaire (Jan 23, 2005)

Been caught only once and that was a LOOOONNNGGG time ago and I didn't even get a ticket and was doing 115 in a 45 Racing!!


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## djdub (Oct 23, 2004)

II-Savy said:


> ^ True, but what would he loose? The "race"? You mean your licence(sp) after your caught.


Maybe his dignity. :lol:


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## WS6Vert (Dec 9, 2004)

*Auto's weigh more*

In the F-bodies all articles I ever read had the M-6 faster. Just a thought, maybe its because the auto weighs more and takes more power to spin it. In the F-bodies you also got the 3.42 rear instead of the 3.23, plus an aluminum drive shaft which was lighter also. I understand that the rear gearing of the GTO is the same no matter what tranny. I might go with the auto if it's in the GTO with the colors I want. Hate to pay the stupid tax tho'!


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

*My reasons for choosing the M6*

1. DURABILITY - I fried (Too hot) a couple of TH400s in my '73 Buick w/455 big block. I know that it was probably more due to their age and my treatment of them than anything else, but it did happen. From that point forward I swore that I would not choose to own/drive cars w/autos. It may be true that the newer autos are better, but I have made my choice. If I had another auto, and managed to burn it up too, I would simply go balistic and start destroying things. I have a very low frustration tolerance for that kind of thing. BTW: I have owned a couple of Fords before, my experiences with them led me to make the same choice about Fords too.
2. CONTROL - 'nuff said.
3. MY WIFE DOESN'T LIKE TO DRIVE MANUAL SHIFT CARS - This is basically our car, but I drive it. She got the Outback that she wanted. This was the car that I wanted. I think if she had a chance to drive one w/ auto, she would probably have to change her underwear the first time she put her foot to the floor. The fact that she has had 2 "Fender Benders" in the last 4 years is also a good reason why she shouldn't be driving a car like this. (In my opinion.)
It seems to me that all the nonsense in this thread is really unnecessary. It all comes down to how you want to drive your car, and what will work best for you. If you have driven both, or can try a test drive of both, try them out and make your choice.

Happy Motoring, and good luck with your purchase,

Maximental


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## m8d2run (Feb 1, 2005)

well put maximental :cheers


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