# Where Did The Name "poncho Motor" Come From?



## take5 (Aug 9, 2009)

Is the name "Poncho Motor" similar to "Rat Motor"?
This is an honest question and with the era of massive torque being delivered from a V8 engine what were some of the expressions heard around speed shops, the street, garages, etc.
I would like to hear them again.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Poncho...

Chief Pontiac, Pontiac Michigan. Pontiac Michigan was named from Indian chief Chief Pontiac. PMD was based in Pontiac Michigan. 

My understanding is... Poncho was a nick name given to a Pontiac. Poncho motors are Pontiac Motors. 

Rat Motors are big block chevys?


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## QUIKSLVR04GOAT (Nov 24, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Poncho...
> 
> Chief Pontiac, Pontiac Michigan. Pontiac Michigan was named from Indian chief Chief Pontiac. PMD was based in Pontiac Michigan.
> 
> ...


If thats true. I just learned something new. That Ive never heard of before Thanks.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree on the Poncho info. Just a nickname, like "goat" . Shared letters, etc. Rat is a BB Chev, as opposed to Mouse, which is old slang for a SB Chev. In the '60's, "mouse motor" was common slang for the popular and compact smallblock Chev.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

geeteeohguy said:


> I agree on the Poncho info. Just a nickname, like "goat" . Shared letters, etc. Rat is a BB Chev, as opposed to Mouse, which is old slang for a SB Chev. In the '60's, "mouse motor" was common slang for the popular and compact smallblock Chev.


:agree

You won't hear that anymore unless some old school person is reffering to a old motor. Everything now is corporate GM.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Mouse...any sbc
Mighty Mouse...hp sbc
Rat.........cbb
Elephant....guesses ?
Side oiler....guesses ?


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## Justice (Oct 9, 2005)

Too Many Projects said:


> Mouse...any sbc
> Mighty Mouse...hp sbc
> Rat.........cbb
> Elephant....guesses ?
> Side oiler....guesses ?


Ford 427 Side Oiler
Very rare; Very Expensive

Has additional oil feeds in the left and right sides of the block around the crank to ward off rod starvation.

Engine builders


> Side Oilers are the most valued of the 427 series. All 427 engines used a special high-nickel alloy and went through a slow-cool process to reduce internal stresses. The block was also reinforced through the main bearing webs and used cross-bolted main bearing caps. Originally designed for high rpm use, the 427 had a short stroke crankshaft - and pushed the bore size to its limit. Consequently, overboring the 427 past .030" is not recommended. Sleeves can be fit, but the resale value of the block is reduced considerably, although many people sleeve engines very successfully.
> 
> They used a separate oil passage along the left hand side of the block to channel oil to the main bearings. The theory was to take any problems with camshaft oiling out of the picture. The crank and rods would take priority. Side oilers are rare and expensive. $5000 for a rebuildable core is not unusual, and the price seems to go up every year. Those with good parts generally know their value, and most cores are saved by engine builders for their own use.


Elephant Motor:
Chrysler 426 (7.0L) Hemi motor
Chrysler Hemi engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The hemispherical head design was revived in 1964. These were the first engines officially designated Hemi, a name Chrysler trademarked. All Chrysler Hemi engines of this generation displaced 426 cu in (7 L). Although just 11,000 Hemi engines were produced for consumer sale due to their relatively high cost and poor street-use reputation, the engine became legendary, with "Hemi" becoming one of the most familiar automobile-related words in the United States. The 426 Hemi was nicknamed the "elephant engine" at the time, a reference to its large dimensions. Its 10.72 in (272.3 mm) deck height and 4.80 in (121.9 mm) bore spacing made it the biggest engine racing in NASCAR at the time.


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## pawpaw (Jan 30, 2010)

take5 said:


> Is the name "Poncho Motor" similar to "Rat Motor"?
> This is an honest question and with the era of massive torque being delivered from a V8 engine what were some of the expressions heard around speed shops, the street, garages, etc.
> I would like to hear them again.


The Poncho engine would be installed into the Tin Indian to complete the vehicle.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Justice said:


> Ford 427 Side Oiler
> Very rare; Very Expensive
> 
> Has additional oil feeds in the left and right sides of the block around the crank to ward off rod starvation.
> ...


OK, so you used google/wikipedia to research. 
Now, what was the side oiler developed for and first used in ?


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

nascar


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

66tempestGT said:


> nascar


To run against the elephant 426.
It was a big part of the early beginnings of the funny car too. Ford built a few 66-67 Fairlanes with altered wheel base tube frames and one piece fiberglass bodies with the driver centered for balance. Since it had no doors, they hinged it at the rear so the body could be lifted for driver entry. The engines ran on injected alcohol and were known to smoke the inadequate tires of the day the entire quarter mile with more than 1,000 hp... Once more of these style of cars appeared in the next couple years, NHRA gave them a class all to themselves as top fuel funny cars which Chrysler went on to dominate with the hemi after it was banned from NASCAR.....:lol:


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

uuuhhhh...... ford built some purpose built racecars, still do. but tube chassis funny cars were built in a garage somewhere with very few parts that would fit a production car. even the altered wheelbase cars that preceded the full blown "floppers" were chopped up and reassembled at a race shop. a few of these people had cars and parts given to them by the big 3 but they didnt build the cars for them.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Names from the "old days" Wedge, Nail head.......Light 'em up! arty:


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## take5 (Aug 9, 2009)

Hey, thanks for everyone's participation with a look into the "rear view mirror" from the past! When all of this was going on I believe you could get 101+ octane gas for about 
21cents to 24cents per gallon and 8 miles per gallon didn't seem too bad.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm actually old enough to recall pay even less than that!


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

how about SOHC motor, cammer, and fuelie


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

The SOHC and 'Cammer' refer to the same 427 Ford engine which was basically a modified FE high riser engine with special OHC heads. A fuelie was either a 283 or 327 Chevy, depending on year, small block with Rochester Ramjet fuel injection.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

How about the 'semi-hemi' or the Chevy Z-33 Mark II 427 'mystery motor'?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

How about the 421 SUPER DUTY! Poncho power! Now those motors are rare. If I remember correctly, Pontiac only built 421SD's between '60-'62, maybe '63, I can't remember off hand.


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## gtomuscle (Dec 11, 2009)

Yes Pontiac built 421 Super Dutys into 1963 until GM put a stop to the racing that year.


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## UdnUdnGTO (Jan 30, 2006)

I feel right at home. . . .I can remember too. Old isn't as bad as some, but worse than others. To the good old days.:cheers


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Back in the day, I had a 64 Plymouth Sport Fury with a '426 Street Wedge' under the hood. Not to be confused with the '426 Max Wedge' which was the race only version of the non Hemi big block Mopar. There were some intersting names for engines back then. 'Fire Power', 'Golden Commando', Sonoramic Commando', and 'TurboFlash' were some of the names for Chrysler 'B' engines.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I thought it was a Poncho cause it had you covered.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I had to think about that one......


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

i have heard of the poly engines for a long time. was vaguely familiar with the mystery motor, but had to look it up. even after google searching i still dont know anything about a Z-33.

:confused

oops, reread the post. now i get it. :willy:


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

The poly was another Mopar engine, I believe a 318. The Z-33 Mark II 427 *is* the mystery motor. Probably the best known Z-33 car was Hayden Proffitt's 63 Biscayne. Brings back memories!









Fender emblem from the same car:


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## Goat67 (Dec 29, 2009)

While we're at it, there are two terms from the Ronnie and the Daytonas' song "Little GTO":

Can anyone here define a "gasser"? Even the people on the Hot Rod Magazine forum(http://forums.hotrod.com/70/1272459/general-topics/what-exactly-is-a-gasser/index.html) don't seem clear about it. 

And what is a "rail job". A Google search on that returns only railroad employment opportunities.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

rail job, see below


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## Goat67 (Dec 29, 2009)

66tempestGT said:


> rail job, see below


Well, I guess "drag" means something different than it did then, also. :lol:


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

or this.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

rail job originally refered to a drag car that was basically homemade. starting with 2 early ford framerails with an engine and a seat. not much else.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

this is an example of a gasser. notice on the side it ran in B/Gas


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

basically a gasser is a car that was too heavily modified to run in a "stock" class, but still ran on gasoline and not alcohol(methanol) or nitromethane.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Rukee said:


> I thought it was a Poncho cause it had you covered.


WOOT :cheers arty:

Pontiac also had the StratoStreak... line of overhead valve V8's '55-58 (287, 316, 347, 370) before the 389. If I'm not mistaken, they're the same castings as the 326, 350, 389, 400, etc.


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## Goat67 (Dec 29, 2009)

66tempestGT said:


> basically a gasser is a car that was too heavily modified to run in a "stock" class, but still ran on gasoline and not alcohol(methanol) or nitromethane.


That's a perfect and concise definition. One of the comments on the hot rod forum said it was like pornography, he couldn't define it, but he'd know it when he saw it.


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