# timing cover 428



## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

Hi!

Now that I got my new parts I want to remove the waterpump and timing cover housing. There is a little coolant leak on the top of the timing cover. 
Is there anything special about it that I should know? 
Will I have to remove the balancer to replace the timing cover gasket or can I remove the timing cover, clean it up, replace the gaskets and re-mount it to the engine?

I want to:

- replace the timing cover gasket
- replace the o rings in the cover
- replace the waterpump sleeves with new stainless sleeves
- replace the waterpump plate with a new stainless one


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

To remove the timing cover, yes the balancer has to come off (so if you do that go ahead and replace the seal there too). You can replace everything else EXCEPT that seal and the cover to block gasket without removing the cover. Where's it leaking from, exactly? If it's the connection between the timing cover and the water crossover on the front of the intake manifold, it's probably easier to remove the intake manifold instead. Also when you replace the plate, make sure you "adjust" the clearance between it and the pump impeller correctly before you reinstall it.

Bear


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

I have a complete seal kit, if I remove the balancer I'll use a new one.
I think the cover to black gasket is the one that is leaking. But I'll check this again to be sure.
Is it very difficult to remove the balancer? 

I'll adjust the clearence as you told me before.. so that the impeller and the plate will almost scratch and after that mout it to the timing cover with a gasket on both sides of the plate.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

It's not difficult with the correct tools (isn't that always the case?). Pontiac balancers originally were slip-fit - you could sometimes just slide them off and on by hand. Sometimes though that changes due to age, aftermarket parts, etc. and you need a balancer puller tool to get them off. The bolt that's in the center of the crank is a booger - it has to be torqued to 160 lb. ft. Use a pair of vice-grip pliers clamped onto the ring gear/flywheel to prevent the engine from turning while you're removing and re-tightening that bolt. Do NOT reinstall the balancer by tapping it on with a hammer. Doing that also beats on the crankshaft thrust bearing and can damage it.

Bear


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

Good to have these information, thank you Bear. Probably I'll ask a friend who has done something like that to help me.. just to make sure I'm not damaging something as it is the first time I will do that.
Today I changed the electric fan and mounted a new one that covers the whole radiator core.. wasn't easy as well, but I'm pretty happy with how it looks, fits and works now. Today was also the hottest day in June since 20 years or so with 97°F and the new fan (controlled by a thermometer) did manage to keep my engine at 190° F in traffic, at idle and of course on the highway.. 

I also think it's leaking from the upper end of the timing cover.. not much but I think I'll repair that anyway. 
If the balancer and the timing cover are removed and re-mounted, will the timing marks match again or will I have to "search" for the top dead center of cylinder #1 afterwards and mark it?

Here is a picture of my new cooling fan setup:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Chris-Austria said:


> If the balancer and the timing cover are removed and re-mounted, will the timing marks match again or will I have to "search" for the top dead center of cylinder #1 afterwards and mark it?


That's a nice looking fan system. :cheers

No sir, since the timing marks are on the balancer, and the balancer is keyed to the crank, nothing should move. If it's a stock or stock type cover, there should be two small sleeves on the bottom two bolt holes (one on each side) between the cover and the block. These sleeves fit into corresponding "sockets" around the bolt holes in the block and in the cover. Their purpose is to "center" the cover so that the balancer seal is centered on the balancer so as not to leak or wear out in one spot. If yours happen to be missing, they're available from restoration parts suppliers. If you're very careful you can get "close" by paying attention to making sure the seal is centered on around the crank snout before you re-install the balancer.

Also, in case you didn't know.. there are 4 screws in the bottom front of the oil pan around the curved part that screw into the timing cover that will also have to be removed before the cover will come off.

Bear


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

I'll keep all that information in mind when I try do change the gaskets and seals.
As I didn't know anything about "how to change the timing cover" I'm glad that you gave me all these usefull information! This will make it a lot easier and safer to me.


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

I've now looked for the leak until I could relly see where the water comes from!
Bear.. your idea was absolute correct, it's leaking from the connection between the intake manifold and the timing cover! (about 1" thick at the right side of the water neck)

Probably I don't have to remove the timing cover, but how should I fix that leak? 
The intake manifold is mounted with 10 bolts I think... if I remove them and keep all other parts in place (carburators, linkage, water neck...) can I repair the leak? Is there a gasket for this connection or do I just have to put some loctite on it and remount it??
I don't think I've seen a bolt or something to tighten the connection?! Only thing.. there is a long clamp with a bolt to press the timing cover to the block on the upper right side of the cover (near the connection)

edit:
I've checked my seal&gasket kit.. I have 2 different manifold gaskets (one with a round hole in the middle and one with a square hole) and a little rubber ring is also included, but I don't know if this will fit into the connection between intake and timing cover. It's pretty small.. there are 2 bigger seals which I think are for the waterpump sleeves and one really big seal for the balancer. So the small round seal should be for the connection?

Does my tri-power manifold have completely other gaskets then the "normal" intakes with one carb? I don't think so because the connection to the block is probably always the same.. only want to be sure..


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

There should be a rubber seal that's inside that connection. That's the small rubber ring you mentioned being in your gasket set. The water crossover on the front of the manifold has a recess machined into it where the seal goes. There should be one long skinny bolt that has a metal tab that fits into a notch on the timing cover and screws into the intake crossover. Its job is to squeeze those two pieces together. If you're lucky, you can probably remove that bolt and also remove the intake manifold bolts, then slide the intake "bacK" enough to get to that seal without having to completely disconnect and remove the intake. Replace the seal if it's bad (new ones are usually included with intake manifold gasket sets) and put a little silicone sealer on both sides of it when you put it back in. Also make sure the surfaces on the intake and the timing cover are clean and flat. When you put it all back together, start the intake manifold bolts but don't tighten them. Use that skinny bolt in front to pull the intake and the timing cover together first. You don't have to torque it like crazy, after all it's a small bolt and not that hard to break. Once you feel like you've got that connection tight enough, then go ahead and tighten up the rest of your intake manifold bolts.

If this all didn't make sense, I can probably come up with some photos that show what I'm talking about.

Bear


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

I made a picture of an old timing cover.. the connection that is leaking is the one where I placed the rubber seal on the right of it (this should fit I hope) and the skinny bolt you mentioned is the one left of it. Now I know how this works, I'll put some sealer on both sides like you said (I did that also on the waterpump and waterneck gaskets)










But now there is another question.. can I use the old intake gaskets or do I have to replace them? I have new ones but I think it's pretty hard to clean the surfaces if I only move the intake a little?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

As long as the gaskets aren't stuck so that they tear or get damaged when you move the intake, there's no reason at all not to reuse them. What happens sometimes is the gaskets get stuck to both the head and the intake manifold so that when you (re)move the intake the gaskets get torn apart. For this reason I usually only use a little sealer on the cylinder head side of the gasket only, just to hold it in place. The surface on the intake I leave completely dry and as clean as I can get it so that if I'm careful, I can remove the intake many times without having to replace the gasket. I've also cut my water crossover so that it's no longer connected to the intake manifold. This does two things: it allows me to remove the intake easily without having to drain the cooling system, and it also prevents that "skinny bolt" from pulling the ports on the manifold out of alignment with the ports on the heads.

Bear


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

That's a good idea. If I have to replace the manifold gaskets I'll do it like that but I hope the gaskets will not get damaged.


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

Today I removed the intake manifold (completley) and changed the seal. Now it doesn' leak any more!! Thank you Bear for your help!
I'm just glad I don't have to change the timing cover gaskets..


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Good to hear that it all worked out for you :cheers

Bear


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

Next week I will test my car on the dyno. I'm wondering how much horses are under my hood  Now that it ain't leaking any more, the cooling works great and the timing settings are completed I think it is time to test it.


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