# Help!!!



## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Well I think I finally found my dream car! I recently bought a 64 GTO, it needs ALOT of work but my kids and I are looking forward to every minute of it! I have a picture of the ID Tag and I was wondering if you all could help me out by letting me know what all the numbers mean? I am going to attach a picture of it on here for you. Thanks in advance for your help!


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Picture is difficult to see, can you post a larger image?


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Rick

First and foremost, if you have not ordered PHS documentation for your car you really should. Most of your dataplate will be explained in documentation they provide.

PHS Historic Services

Second, here is a fairly reliable source for most of the codes on your plate and a fun site to visit: 1964 GTO Specifications - UltimateGTO.com

Rick Too


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi Rick, Welcome to the Forum!! First and for most you should order your PHS!!!!!!! That said here is what I see for now. 2237 = Hardtop 219 = Parchment Interior LL means it is paint code Marimba Red top and bottom ie. if it was a Cordova Top that 2nd letter would be a number 1, 2, or 3 depending on the color. The A49, B70, and B80 well all be be better anwered with your PHS!! My thinking for now is A49 something with your seats belts, B70 padded dash, B80 probably still a interior option. Where do you live? Cause if you are close to Wichita Ks around July 1st thur 4th you need to make the GTOAA Nationals your main stop cause we can give you a real learning experience on ALL THINGS GTO!!!! Happy GTOing, LES........... KOPPSTER, YOU ARE INVITED TOO! WHERE IS SCHERTZ TX?? Les


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Les....Schertz is just North of San Antonio on the I-35 corridor (before New Braunfels if you are familiar)


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

KOPPSTER OR Rick too bit of a drive but sure a easy one just straight up 35. And I will buy the first beer.....64 Man too, or LES


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Here is a better pic, the paint code actually has three letters....LLA. I am also confused because everything I have read said the month code should read 03....mine just says 3. I also have an extra set of numbers on the top right, it is 3-2....I was told this might refer to the tri tower motor? If that is what it means then I know I got a real GTO. This picture is much easier to read....let me know!


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Just found out B80 ACC code is Chrome drip rail moldings...anybody know what they are?


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

OK, my paint LLA means it was that marimba red and the A is for painted black steel wheels I guess. I still cant find out anything about the 3-2 on the top right though...kinda lost on that one.


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Rick, BF means the Fremont Plant. You out in Calif.?? Still working on the 3-2...Is it a tripower or does it have the Calif. 4-barrel Air Cleaner???? Les


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Im from Cali......I live in Portland Oregon now, thanks for the help!


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Nobody seems to know about the 3-2....one person said he thought it refered to the tri power motor but nobody has been able to confirm that. If you look back in this thread I posted a new pic of the tag, it is much easier to read.


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Rick14 said:


> Just found out B80 ACC code is Chrome drip rail moldings...anybody know what they are?


 Not sure why that would be on there as it was part of the GTO package. But we are dealing with a Calif. car. YOU need the PHS!!!!!!! Les


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Only part of the motor left is the block, I am going to restore it completley stock so I need to find what the original motor was


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I am doing that FOR SURE! I called them earlier and will be doing that right away, have I posted pics of the car yet? Ill do that in a minute, I bought it for $500. The county made this guy remove all the cars in his yard and I just got lucky, he had to get rid of it.


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

heres the car itself


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

You have a GR-RRR8R GTO club out there. You need to find out where to join and talk to a local 64 guy. But keep us posted here. Pretty sure I will be in Portland next year around the 4th of July. Les


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I actually emailed them earlier, Im going to get as much info from them as I can


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

$500? Wow! That's a deal, the car looks like it has great potential


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I thought so too.....it is straight all the way around, my wife dosent agree though. When I saw it I knew it wouldnt be that bad of a restore...it is so damn straight, cant wait to see it when I am fiished. I am going to stay true to the car, I will make it look just like it did when it rolled out of the factory if I can


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Lets run the #s on the block. Do you the heads? Man, it's been parted out already you are missing the drip rail moldings in fact all the door moldings too. You are going to pay more for a real 64 GTO hood than you payed for the car. Les


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Actually, I just found out the block isnt from that car....its a big block out of a catalina so Im just gonna sell it or something. I do have the hood, bumpers and alot of the trip...they are in the garage


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

The guy I bought it from just sent me an email and said the engine dosent go with the car, he just threw it in with the deal for me. Alot of the trim and bumpers and all of that are in the trunk and my garage......Ill get the VIN and put a pic of it on here too


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

OKAY, I'm with Rick from TX now WOW What a DEAL. I finished mine about 15 years ago in fact it's geting close to needing a fresh paint job. Still my dream car too. Les


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

WOW, I read this about 7:30 this morning and only Koppster had replied....
It's probably good the engine isn't the original from the looks of it sitting open to the weather. Body does look solid. Did you get the 4 speed main case sitting on the back too ?? You might want to back off getting correct engine parts for now, they will take a while to find and plenty of money. Get the body and interior drivable and find a good running used 400 for now. Be less expensive and let you enjoy your toy while collecting all the "right stuff" for a later install....


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Rick, better add Mitch to your buddy list as he always as good advice!! Just fine a good runing 400 for now will get you on the road a lot sooner and you can start enjoying the GTO fun!! Les


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for all of the responses! I have received so much help on here! My main concern was if it was real GTO, thats why I posed the data tag. I still haven't had anybody tell me if it is or not but I have faith! I think it is a great idea to start off on all the body and mechanics, then worry about getting the correct motor...great advice! I do have the 4 speed main case (you saw that huh) The guy told me it may not be the correct one for the car but he knows a guy who will trade me for the one that he gave me straight across.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Nothing on that tag will tell if it's a real GTO. Only the PHS will show that and if it had three deuces. The 3-2 in the upper corner is a plant designation and doesn't refer to the engine. Having a fax available will get the PHS info faster....

The casting number on the right side of the trans case will reveal if it is the correct one for the year. Also the countershaft hole at the very bottom will be 7/8". If it's 1", it's a later case.


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Ok, well I am going to send the info to PHS tomorrow, LOL...I wish there was a way to tell what I have right now. I am sure it is a GTO, I didn't realize it was so difficult to tell before I bought it. Either way, he says it is one and I believe him...he has a great reputation around my town and he is an Army Vet like me so I trust him. Ill check on the case and see what it is and let you know when I get home tonight


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Unfortunately, the GTO didn't get it's own VIN sequence until 66. Some 65's have an option code to indicate it but the 64's are rather vague. Remember, that car wasn't supposed to exist according to GM management. Pontiac marketing found a way to circumvent the rules and basically started the hp war.....:cheers
At least you can get verification from PHS. I don't know of any other model that kept their records, hence the lucrative cloning business.


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Well I am a little bummed out, just realized that there is no VIN tag in the door and that is gonna make it very hard to get a title on this. I am going to have to find it on the frame I guess. There is a 1983 Utah D.O.T. inspection sticker with numbers on it, maybe I can see if they still have the records for that inspection? I am thinking that would have the VIN for sure. I planned on restoring it completely so I am gonna have the body off anyhow, I know I can get the VIN on the frame but I also just found out you are not allowed to obtain a new VIN plate for the car.....is this going to be a major problem for me?


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

What kind of Catalina block?


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I will find out for you when I get home tonight...I can shoot a pic for you as well


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Rick14 said:


> Well I am a little bummed out, just realized that there is no VIN tag in the door and that is gonna make it very hard to get a title on this. I am going to have to find it on the frame I guess. There is a 1983 Utah D.O.T. inspection sticker with numbers on it, maybe I can see if they still have the records for that inspection? I am thinking that would have the VIN for sure. I planned on restoring it completely so I am gonna have the body off anyhow, I know I can get the VIN on the frame but I also just found out you are not allowed to obtain a new VIN plate for the car.....is this going to be a major problem for me?


Most states can issue a new STATE VIN for a car after a thorough investigation. You can't get a DUPLICATE of the original. The original could have been discarded if the car was "junked" in the past or the tag could be on another body somewhere. Personally, I wouldn't spend another dime on it until the title and VIN issue is resolved. Did you ask the seller about this ? Maybe he has it and forgot it was removed. If he doesn't have it, lift the body enough to see the frame and get the VIN and start working on a title. I have been screwing around waiting for a title for mine for a year but at least I have the original VIN to work with. I know you're all fired up about the car but I would be inclined to ask for my money back if he can't provide a valid VIN. Title issues can be resolved but missing VIN tags are a whole nuther can of worms. For all you know it could be stolen in the distant past. I had a Camaro with questionable VIN swap that had a legal title from TX but it was obvious that the VIN tag and title weren't for the body they were with. My gut never felt right about it and I couldn't live with it so I sold the car as a "re-body" for a major loss to get it out of my life. Sh!t like this can really screw up a guys dream......sorry.....


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I am going to lift the body, look at the VIN there and see if the sheet is stuffed in the back seat (I know this is rare) I will send the VIN from the frame along with the data plate info to PHS and see if everything matches up. I am also going to look into that Utah DOT Inspection sticker and see if that gives me any leads.....still holding out hope, I have a good feeling about this car!


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

BUMMER, still a great deal even if you just end up with lots of good parts. Might pull the gas tank and look on top of it. I wouldn't put money into it without a good title. TO RISKY!!!! LES


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Here are some numbers I have been able to locate so far off the car;
1) Under the windshield stamped into the metal on the driver's side-5411z49
2) On the engine block which I know dosent belong to the car-9773155...this one is located on the back part of the block on top. On the sides it has
GM 97733460 then a C but the C isnt in the goup of numbers, either is the GM before them..they are both seperated from the numbers.

3) In the differential I found the number 12 sideways, then 9773721. I also saw a very small set of numbers stamped onto a part, it was 153 I think...hard to read.

4) I have a tranny case that dosent go with the car, you can see it on back of the car in the pics I posted earlier. I found 6k179443 on it. On the bottom I found 3881050 and it had General Motors and Patent number 3088336. I also found a small stamped number that read P0401. Someone also welded thier initials DH on the bottom and some kind of strange pattern on it.....maybe someone who worked on it?It had DH and almost a roman nummeral 2 type looking thing, not real sure about that. 

That's everything I have so far, gonna try to find the VIN next....any suggestions?


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

holy crap......the guy told me that was the wrong block but I just looked up the number and it says that 9773155 is a 64 389!!!! Could anybody confirm that for me? Would that be one more clue telling me I truly do have a GTO?


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Rick14 said:


> holy crap......the guy told me that was the wrong block but I just looked up the number and it says that 9773155 is a 64 389!!!! Could anybody confirm that for me? Would that be one more clue telling me I truly do have a GTO?


Yup..looks a B Body and GTO block, look for a 76, 77, 78 or 78 number with a letter behind it X, J, W, etc. That will tell you if it's a GTO or B Body block.

Pontiac Power

76X A-body 64 389 348 3-speed 3x2 9773155 2 GTO 
77J A-body 64 389 348 Powerglide 3x2 9773155 2 GTO 
78W A-body 64 389 325 4-speed 1x4 9773155 2 GTO 
78X A-body 64 389 325 3-speed 1x4 9773155 2 GTO 
79J A-body 64 389 325 Powerglide 1x4 9773155 2 GTO 
769 A-body 64 389 348 4-speed 3x2 9773155 2 GTO 
789 A-body 64 389 325 4-speed 1x4 9773155 2 GTO


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

where would that be?


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I found a F204 number...underneath the 9773155


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

ok, so 11H is 389-267 hp-powerglide-1x2-2 main.....not too sure what some of that means...LOL


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

I dunno, he said this motor didnt go with the car but he wasnt sure....Im still trying to learn alot about this car.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Your '64 "big car" 389 block is the same as a GTO block except for the numbers. Rebuilt with a proper cam and intake, performance will be identical. The whole VIN thing is a bummer, though, and will affect the value of the car when it's done. Good luck with it. For $500, you probably can't go wrong.


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

so under the 11H is the number 565684. I found the number F134 a few times....I also found the number P323 or P328...hard to tell. I also found the number 9773371 on there. So this is a 389 with 267hp from a B body....was this hp an option for the GTO in 64? If not, what was it used in? Like I said, the guy said it wasnt the motor that came with the car but who knows. Any info I can get helps, thanks everybody!


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

very true...thanks friend!


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

sorry if I am driving everybody crazy trying to figure all of this out!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Rick14 said:


> so under the 11H is the number 565684. I found the number F134 a few times....I also found the number P323 or P328...hard to tell. I also found the number 9773371 on there. So this is a 389 with 267hp from a B body....was this hp an option for the GTO in 64? If not, what was it used in? Like I said, the guy said it wasnt the motor that came with the car but who knows. Any info I can get helps, thanks everybody!


11H B-body 64 389 267 Powerglide 1x2 9773155 2 
1964 B-body 389/267hp Powerglide tranny, 2 barrel carb with 2 bolt mains.
565684 is just the unit #. F134 looks like a date code, June 13, 1964
9773155 is the block casting number.

267hp was not an option for a GTO. Don't know what it was in.
GTO Engine codes 76/77 were 348hp w/tri power, either auto or manual tranny.
GTO Engine codes 78/79 were 325hp 4 barrels, manual or auto tranny.

267hp was not a LeMans option either.
Standard engine:
215 inline 6 140hp
Optional engines:
326/250hp
326HO/280hp


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

267 HP was Standard on the Catalina two-barrel with a synchromesh. Got this from my standard catalog of PONTIAC 1926-1995. Les


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## Rick14 (Mar 11, 2010)

Ok thanks, that makes sense...he said he thought it was out of a Catalina


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