# PHS Doc's....What to make of the facts ?



## kdr3 (Dec 6, 2013)

Hello fellow GTO Fans.....Recently purchased (IMHO) the brass ring. I've owned and sold muscle cars for twenty years and had many cars and cruisers in various state(s) of repair/disrepair....Corvettes,442's,Chevelle's,T/A's etc.....all in driver or so condition. Some nicer than others but all fun to tinker with and sharpen your repair/restore skills with.....Finally got the GTO I always wanted......1970 400/400 3.23 Posi car.......Car in decent driver condition with all numbers matching up. Seller did not know or how to identify numbers in key places.....and actually thought car was a 455 ..LOL. No worries we were able to correctly ID the car's components. My question is What does PHS Color option 1 really mean ? They said your was special Color Option code......Color unknown? How does one find out what the color was??? Thanks for any help here....Happy New forum !!!:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Nice looking car. That looks awfully close to Cardinal Red to me. Jim Mattison may be able to help you if no one here can. Hes in Scottsdale right now though.


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## kdr3 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thank You !!! No worries I'm sure we will get to the bottom of it with all the help here.........

kdr3


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## Red1970GTO (Jun 25, 2011)

:cool I'm also in Scottsdale (BIG SMILE) but as a "I think" that's the main body color(?).


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## Smalldog (Apr 21, 2013)

Being a cardinal red 72 owner, I agree that looks like cardinal red. 

Can you see any remnants of a previous color in the engine bay, door jams, or behind the endura bumper? If it all looks cardinal red, then that must be the one..


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## kdr3 (Dec 6, 2013)

I've been crawling around and have not been able to see any signs of previous or original Exterior paint......From the PHS report the interior is correct in color and options (although it had a sandlewood vinyl top at one time) PHS report comes back "Opt. 1 Color Unknown" ....not sure if this is a typical like scenario ie:Company replacement Block or something unusual?

Deane
:cheers


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## kdr3 (Dec 6, 2013)

Have Fun at Scottsdale !!!! Been watching from home... Looks great..... GTO's are bringing BIG Numbers.....


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

From my Acme paints book for your year, 1970 Cardinal Red is paint code 75. No other reds are listed. I searched through all the General Motors color codes 1962-1971. I found one "01" for a 1969 Olds Toronado - Amethyst Metallic, which I don't think it is. I also looked for the letter "I" and there were no letter "I" paint codes. "I" was always skipped.

Just for kicks, I looked for number "1" paint codes of other manufacturers in case the color was taken from one of them. 1970 Ford had "Vermillion" and a Maverick promotional color called "Home on the Orange" 1970 Lincoln & Mercury had "Competition Orange." 

In 1967 and 1968, you could get customer/special ordered paint colors, some were known by name only and had no paint code. I had a '67 GTO convert. with no paint code and it was painted as a special color, Iris Mist. Found two reds that may be of interest. There is a 1967 Pontiac special color having no code called "Sierra Red Metallic" and a 1968 Firebird only special color having no code called "Carnival Red."

There is also a 1969 Firebird only color code number 72 "Carousel Red," and a Grand Prix only color code number 86 "Claret Red Metallic." These two colors only show up for 1969 as mentioned.

I agree with the other comments that your color looks like the Cardinal Red, but I would have to think that your paint color code would have shown this. Could yours have been a preproduction color, a late year production color? When was your car manufactured - early or late run? My next guess would be that it is indeed a custom color and may have been ordered in one of the other red colors mentioned as they were not available on the 1970 GTO and some customer or dealer really wanted "that color", especially if it was late 1969 and some one wanted the 1969 Firebird/Grand Prix color they saw on some car in a show room. Pontiac did have some strange one off builds. I do not have any color chips, so I do not know if any of these colors would even match. If your car has been repainted at any time, it is possible that the Cardinal Red was selected versus the actual color because like you, the color could not be found in the paint color books and they went with what was listed.

So, food for thought, and I'm just throwing stuff out here. Still, interesting mystery. Nice car.


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## Smalldog (Apr 21, 2013)

Yea from the clues presented, my money says it was a special order color originally knowing how good of a job Pontiac did keeping records. 

Try to find another GTO owner with a special order color and see how their PHS and trim tag say. I'm pretty sure I have seen a PHS on a 72 that was special ordered Starlight Black and it said starlight black on the PHS.

If it is a special order color your car is more rare than you may have thought!


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## Smalldog (Apr 21, 2013)

Here's my cardinal red up against yours:















It might be the sunlight but yours looks more orangy, more like Carousel red?!

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## Smalldog (Apr 21, 2013)

Here's a carousel red 69









I think it looks more like carousel red after seeing side by side pics...


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## rexs73gto (Nov 25, 2012)

I have to agree the color on your car looks more like carousel red to me to, & that would be a special order color on your car.


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