# to good to be true?



## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Has anyone tried one of these? Do they actually increase HP? 





Designed for PONTIAC GTO 2004-2006

PART# 1075





Specifically created for the PONTIAC GTO, the AR power chip is built and designed with horsepower in mind. 20+ to be specific. Amazingly small and simplistic, this mod is guaranteed to increase your engine’s horsepower and torque output.

Accelerate faster. You can be guaranteed to feel a difference. 20 horsepower is exactly the type of performance upgrade you could expect from more popular yet more expensive modifications. The AR power chip gives you this exact same performance boost out of a small, inexpensive chip. And best of all it’s easy to install. NO MECHANICAL EXPERIENCE IS NEEDED. You plug and play this chip.

No soldering wires. No splicing wires. No cutting wires. No welding. No disassembling and reassembling required. This allows YOU to install our chip. Even cold air intakes require some sort of mechanical knowledge to install. With our exceptionally detailed instructions you can be rest assured to have the chip installed in less than 5 minutes by YOU! Don’t pay a mechanic $60 an hour to install an expensive modification that has exactly the same effect on performance as the AR power chip.

With such a small price tag you might think this mod is nothing but an ebook with instructions to modify your engine as it is. But the AR power chip is an actual electronic chip that is plugged into a sensor near your vehicle’s air box. It’s a simple plug and play installation that is guaranteed to provide results. It’s small. It’s simple. It’s amazingly effective.

Many of our customers tell us that the price and performance promise of our chip seemed simply too good to be true. Paying less than $20 for a modification that will have the same effect of a brand new cat-back exhaust just seems mind-boggling.

So how can we sell you such an effective modification at such a low cost?

First of all, we manufacture and distribute our chips in extremely large quantities. Add in the fact that we avoid overhead costs associated with keeping a storefront, and you can quickly see that we can sell a valid product at an extremely low cost.

Maybe you’re looking for just a little added horsepower to get rid of your car’s sluggish engine. Maybe you’re looking for a little bit of added torque to tow your boat. Maybe you’re just interested in more horsepower for as little $$$ as possible. In any case, you simply cannot go wrong with the AR power chip.

So what are the facts?

Complete AR power chip kit including the chip and instructions for under $20 shipped 

At least 20 added HORSEPOWER 

Increased TORQUE output – increased TOWING CAPACITY 

Improved ACCELERATION 

100% satisfaction guarantee backed by our 100% money back guarantee. NO FINE PRINT. NO HASSLES. 



Q: Do you have a chip for <insert vehicle make, model, and year>?

A: If you find this auction and are looking for a chip for a different vehicle simply go to our eBay store and use the store's search function to find your particular vehicle in our inventory. If you still do not find your vehicle listed feel free to e-mail us and we will be happy to check whether we carry a chip for your vehicle.

Q: What is your return policy?

A: Our 100% satisfaction guarantee includes a full refund if you are not completely satisfied with the chip.

Q: You have a listing for my particular vehicle but I have done some modifications to it already. Will your chip still work and be just as effective in conjunction with these mods?

A: The AR power chip works alongside most popular modifications like intake or exhaust. The chip will not work with a turbo or supercharged motor. E-mail us if you want a specific answer.

Q: Do you use UPS, FEDEX, or the USPS for shipping.

A: All orders are shipped via the USPS.



The AR power chip is backed by our unmatched 100% satisfaction guarantee.

If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase simply e-mail us a request for an R#

After we receive your return, along with an attached R# you will be refunded the item's cost + the cost of shipping the item to you.


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

Based on what I have read about the mild tune set up for the GTO, it would make sense that a chip that changes the setting to a less conservative set up would increase the performance. I have heard about several people gaining well over 20hp just by getting a good tune. I doubt this would be as good but it seems possible.


Where did you find this?


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

I found it on ebay by typing in "2004 Pontiac GTO". I always like to look out on ebay to see if they have anything interesting that I can't live without. Its only like $10 or $12, so I thought I might give it a try, but I don't want to if it may hurt my engine or performance, but I definitely would if it will increase HP.


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

Try to ask what it does, does it change the fuel mixture, does it advance timing and if so how? 

But it looks like something I might be willing to get and give it a try.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

I emailed them to ask them your questions - I will let you know what I hear back. Thanks!


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

I've never heard of these before, haven't tried one, and haven't heard of anyone who's tried one. However, the way that ad runs, it really really sounds like a scam of some sort. 

At first I was thinking it was one of those ECU modifier things, but then I read this part: 




> NO MECHANICAL EXPERIENCE IS NEEDED. You plug and play this chip.
> 
> No soldering wires. No splicing wires. No cutting wires. No welding. No disassembling and reassembling required. This allows YOU to install our chip. Even cold air intakes require some sort of mechanical knowledge to install. With our exceptionally detailed instructions you can be rest assured to have the chip installed in less than 5 minutes by YOU! Don’t pay a mechanic $60 an hour to install an expensive modification that has exactly the same effect on performance as the AR power chip.


That, to me, sounds fishy. I cannot think of any way to install a chip that doesn't require some fiddling around inside. As they say that installing a CAI is harder, they are basically making it sound like you lift the hood, plunk down this piece in a groove, and shut the hood. Doesn't make any sense to me.



> With such a small price tag you might think this mod is nothing but an ebook with instructions to modify your engine as it is. But the AR power chip is an actual electronic chip that is plugged into a sensor near your vehicle’s air box. It’s a simple plug and play installation that is guaranteed to provide results. It’s small. It’s simple. It’s amazingly effective.


"a sensor". Notice they do not name the sensor. Intentional vagueness is often a sign of a scam. As is overblown, too lengthy descriptions of just how great their product is (which is what this add does). Notice that if you check ads for legitimate parts, it is usually short and fairly to the point, with some description of factual stuff (manufacturer, color, what year and type of vehicle it fits, etc) along with a smaller amount of "fluff".

It is possible that this device works by disabling an emissions sensor or some such thing, in which case they could claim it really works but meanwhile it either is screwing something else up or putting your vehicle in the "not going to pass inspection" state. Or it could be a total scam. I lean toward one of these two possibilities.



> So how can we sell you such an effective modification at such a low cost?
> 
> First of all, we manufacture and distribute our chips in extremely large quantities. Add in the fact that we avoid overhead costs associated with keeping a storefront, and you can quickly see that we can sell a valid product at an extremely low cost.


The above wording is another thing you frequently see in shadier ads. I see this in unproven natural/herbal medicine ads, MLM scheme ads, etc. It always seems to be at least semi-borderline products that use this wording for some reason. Granted, that in and of itself doesn't mean the product is bogus, but is another thing that puts me on guard.




> Maybe you’re looking for just a little added horsepower to get rid of your car’s sluggish engine. Maybe you’re looking for a little bit of added torque to tow your boat.


This is an indicator that this is a blanket article and that they sell these things for plenty of other cars. Not many people are going to tow a boat with their Goat, and not many will say the engine is sluggish stock (even those who would prefer a quicker engine.)



> The AR power chip is backed by our unmatched 100% satisfaction guarantee.


They say there is a money back guarantee. The thing is, almost 100% of the time that I hear someone purchase a product that is borderline snake-oil or otherwise dubious, when they go to return it for that "100% satisfaction guarantee", there is always some catch or some hoops that make it impossible to get their money back. 

So to sum up, knowing nothing about the actual product, my impression is that this is not legitimate just by the way the article is written. The fact that this product is apparently only sold on eBay also enforces that conclusion.

I went out and did a search just to see if I could find any reviews of it, other stores that sell it, performance sites showcasing it, or things like that. No luck-- it does seem to be limited to eBay. I did however see an ad for it on eBay with a picture:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20HP...categoryZ33597QQihZ019QQitemZ8069634963QQrdZ1

That picture at the bottom is not a "chip" in any such way, but a resistor on a wire. So the fact that they are calling it a "chip" when it is not indicates that there is some deception going on right there. Granted, the version for the GTO could be different, but I get the impression it is a blanket product (and if it is a resistor on a wire, it can easily be a blanket).

Altogether, my impressions could be wrong, it could be a new company starting out who only have an eBay store now and don't know how to write ads so as not to trigger people's suspicions. But, my personal opinion is that there is something not quite as described about this--and calling a resistor on a wire a "chip" sure enforces that.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Excellent feedback, thank you for the help. i will post the company's response to Mumrah's questions if they do respond.


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## camcojb (Dec 23, 2005)

sounds like it hooks into the intake air temp sensor, essentially fooling the computer into thinking the air temps are lower than they really are. The higher the temps go the more timing is pulled, so this would give no benefit when the engine is cold, but should improve performance once warmed up. It can also cause pinging or knock retard, as there's a reason the factory pulls timing with higher air temps.

All in all should work, not sure of 20 HP, but splicing into your harness sucks. I'd rather have it done in the tune, but that is more money.

Jody


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

Sounds like another one of these ebay scams like the Turbonator. It probably gives very little is no results at all.


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## Blueguy (May 22, 2006)

camcojb said:


> sounds like it hooks into the intake air temp sensor, essentially fooling the computer into thinking the air temps are lower than they really are. The higher the temps go the more timing is pulled, so this would give no benefit when the engine is cold, but should improve performance once warmed up. It can also cause pinging or knock retard, as there's a reason the factory pulls timing with higher air temps.
> 
> All in all should work, not sure of 20 HP, but splicing into your harness sucks. I'd rather have it done in the tune, but that is more money.
> 
> Jody


I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Pretty popular scam on ebay. Open it up, and all it is is like 3 wires and a resistor.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Hey Blue Guy - I see you are in minneapolis - where abouts? I am in Maple Grove and I work in Plymouth. What are your Goat specs?


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## GTJimbO (Apr 28, 2006)

I know exactly what they're doing: By putting a resistor on the AMM (MAF sensor), they're spoofing the ecu into thinking there is more air entering the engine. More air, and the ECU will pump more fuel in making way too rich. Great for more power, crappy for other things like fuel ecconomy, reliability and longevity.

We do this all the time with certain model years (read: OLD) of Saab Turbo engines when we turn up the boost in order to get nominal mixture.

What this will do to a normally aspirated engine is make it way too rich and in the long run, screw up the cats, among other nasty things.

Not only avoid it, but run away. True chip tuning adjusts the entire fuel mapping, whereas this just puts a blanket up-tick of fuel across the entire map. ECU chugs away dumping fuel, but can't figure out why the second o2 sensor is giving odd readings. 

Guarantee the CEL light will come on.

Just my $.02 worth.

Jim Miller

'06 M6, Phantom Black, 18"
'02 Saab 9-5 Aero Turbo, modified
'93 Saab 900 Turbo, modified
'91 Saab 900 Turbo Convertible, Stock


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Thanks - good point. Here is the email response I got from the chip manufacturers...

Hello,


The chip is installed into the Intake Air Temperature sensor of your vehicle. It modifies the sensor, telling it to send the message that you are receiving optimal air temperature into your air box. This message is relayed to the ECU, which in turn tells your engine that conditions are optimal and it can therefore perform at optimal conditions. This allows your engine to perform better, which results in increased horsepower and torque. This process does not harm your engine in any way.



What we are selling you is the chip that is installed onto the IAT sensor. Along with the chip you'll receive detailed instructions that will tell you exactly how to find your IAT sensor and how to install the chip. The chip plugs right into the sensor so you don't have to worry about cutting wires or soldering. It's very simple with the instructions we'll send you. If you have any more questions feel free to ask! 



AccelRacing


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

So in other words, it is exactly as GTJimbo and some others have posted. 

I do not know why they keep calling a 3-wired reisistor a "chip". :willy:


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Exactly - thanks again everybody. Now I can use that $10 on a 12 pack:cheers :


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

goatballs said:


> Exactly - thanks again everybody. Now I can use that $10 on a 12 pack:cheers :


Now there's a useful mod.:cheers


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Amen Brotherarty:


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## Blueguy (May 22, 2006)

goatballs said:


> Hey Blue Guy - I see you are in minneapolis - where abouts? I am in Maple Grove and I work in Plymouth. What are your Goat specs?


Very south end. Pretty much right across the street from Richfield. 

Don't have a goat yet. My current employer sold off our division to another company and I have to wait until later this summer/fall to find out if I still have a job. It's looking good so far. Once I know for sure, I'll be getting an 05 or 06. All I can do for now is research, learn, and watch the market for going prices, problem areas, stuff like that.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

That doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun on the job front. Good luck to you on that. What is fun is picking out your goat. Just make sure you get what is right for you. For me, the right choice was an 04 Phantom Black Metallic A4. I really like the black, but it certainly requires pampering.


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## Blueguy (May 22, 2006)

Sucks waiting, but if I do get the offer, it'll be better for me for quite a few reasons. A) Don't need to work downtown anymore, which leads to, B) Don't have to pay for parking every day. C) Better benefits. D) won't have to work for a company that sold us 

I'd like to get black, but I'll take a blue. Red would be a last option and only if it's a great deal. I know what you mean though about pampering the black. My GTP is black. Getting it buffed and waxed in about a half hour to get rid of some of the swirl marks it's collected over the years.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Good idea. I had mine detailed last month when I took it out of storage but it already looks like it could use another waxing. What kind of wax do you use on your GXP?


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## Blueguy (May 22, 2006)

Took it to a full service wash place to get it done. Looks a lot better, but I can tell I'm going to have to do this myself to get more swirls out. Saw a couple spots the guy missed with the buffer. Depending on weather, I think I'll do the full clay bar, wash, buff, and wax one of these upcoming weekends. Maybe fix some paint chips while I'm at it.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

I've seen people mention the clay bar on here before. What is it and how does it work?


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Also, Blueguy, I was on my way to a baseball game in St Paul yesterday and I saw 2 other goats - looked like 04's - one black and one red within a block of each other. That is more than I see in a month of driving, usually.


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## Blueguy (May 22, 2006)

Never used the clay bar yet, but as I understand it, you squeeze a bit of the supplied lubricant and rub the clay bar back and forth. You'll feel some resistance at first, but as the crud is removed from the paint, it gets smooth and just slides around. Do the whole car like that, wash off the residue and you've got a very clean body to work with. Should make buffing easier.

Funny, I haven't seen a GTO in month. Then last week I saw a black 04 down 35 in Bloomington with a plate that I think said MS GOAT or something. A few days later I saw an red 05/06 with the SAP grills still painted silver. I hope they don't start showing up all over the place.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Agreed. I think living in the North Country keeps the GTO - and other RWD sports cars - numbers relatively low. Lets hope it stays that way.


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

There are clay bar kits you can buy at automotive stores like Autozone. The one I bought was Mother's brand and it contained the clay bar, a bottle of instant detailer, and a bottle of wax. The clay bar helps remove tiny residual particles that don't come off too well with regular washing. The main reason you want to do the GTO at least once is because the GTO makes part of its journey to the US on rail, where tiny fragments of iron will apparently settle on the car.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Good info - I am on the phone with NAPA right now to see if they carry it. They have the Mothers Kit also with the clay bar, the spray and the polish for $17.49


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

That price sounds right--that's about what I paid for mine. It takes a while to do the clay bar--and make sure you read the directions--but I've never done it before and did my car. I have a feeling I probably didn't do quite as good a job as someone who has done these a lot, but at least I did clay bar it, considering (looking at cars overall) a lot of people never do so.


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## goatballs (Sep 18, 2005)

Yeah - I get the feeling that not many people are aware of the clay bar - like me - even the guy at Napa said - "oh, you mean those things for detailing, right?"


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

Sounds like a scam, just like electronic superchargers for $80.00 bucks. Horsepower costs about $20.00 per, not $1.00 per. Even if it were true, you wont feel any improvement without doing all the breathing upgrades to your car, such as exhaust, headers, cold air intake, tune or program to enhance engine and squirt more fuel on injectors. You will actually reduce the performance of your vehicle by not doing these upgrades and trying to add these electronic gimmicks. In order for one of any of these items to work, you have to do all of them. Your warning light may even come on saying "reduced performance". Borla has a nice exhaust setup with 5" tips. I noticed a BIG improvement. A friend of mine has Corsa, but no increase in performance, although it sounds great. JBA headers are 50 state smog legal and add 30 hp to the wheels with 34 fp of torque with ignition wire upgrades on a stock gto. The Banshee ram air hood adds 25 hp to the wheels. After you do all that, then add a program, or have your engine tuned. Then you will feel the power of your goat. There is no need for turbos or superchargers, as there are ways to get upwards of 600 hp without them. If your mechanic can't squeeze 30 hp out of a tune, go somewhere else. I think the Diablosport predator III is better. It adds 12% hp on top of whatever hp you already have. If you have 400 hp, it will give you 460. At least thats what they say for the 2005 GTO.


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

banshee said:


> definitely sounds like a scam....like electronic superchargers on ebay. horsepower generally costs $20.00 per, definitely not $1.00 per. Anyhow, even if it were true, you still have to have other mods done in order to utilize that horsepower. If you haven't upgraded your exhaust, headers, air filter (cold air intake), you wont notice any change in horsepower from any tune or quick and easy hp upgrade. You may actually even decrease your performance and trigger your "decreased performance" light on your instrument panel. You need to tune your engine to squirt more fuel on your injectors, if not, you can do damage to your engine. I would suggest getting the diablo predator III. It adds 12% horspower on top of whatever your total horsepower currently is, and it does a whole lot more. For $450.00, you cant beat it. JBA and Edelbrock make 50 state smog legal headers. JBA is the best. It adds 30 hp to the wheels and 34 fp of torque with the addition of ignition wires. Borla has the best exhaust system with 5" tips. I noticed a BIG improvement. A friend has Corsa on his. It sounds real good, but didn't do a damn thing for performance. K&N adds 18.5 hp to the wheels. A tune is the last thing you want to do after you exhaust all your bolt on options. Superchargers and Turbos are not necessary for Goats, as you can easily squeez well over 600 horses from bolt on parts without them.


I'm not sure about 600 hp from bolt-on's. How are you coming up with that number? I don't think intake, headers, exhaust, and a tune is gonna get you 600hp?


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

*too good to be true*

No, not just those three. There are several things that can be done. Pick up a GM high-tech performance magazine. Heres a few things I can name off the top of my head....Headers, 30 hp, K&N intake, 18.5 hp, Borla exhaust upgrade, 15 to 20 hp, underdrive pulley, 20 hp?, ram air hood, 25 hp, cams 60 to 100 hp, dual electronic exhaust cut-outs, 14 hp 14 fp of torque to the wheels, engine tune, 30 hp or predator III programmer, 12% on top....thats from the top of my head. Many of them are proven with dyno sheets. so far thats 212 hp to 257 hp with tune, and 182 to 230 hp increase with program from diablosport.


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

banshee said:


> No, not just those three. There are several things that can be done. Pick up a GM high-tech performance magazine. Heres a few things I can name off the top of my head....Headers, 30 hp, K&N intake, 18.5 hp, Borla exhaust upgrade, 15 to 20 hp, underdrive pulley, 20 hp?, ram air hood, 25 hp, cams 60 to 100 hp, dual electronic exhaust cut-outs, 14 hp 14 fp of torque to the wheels, engine tune, 30 hp or predator III programmer, 12% on top....thats from the top of my head. Many of them are proven with dyno sheets. so far thats 212 hp to 257 hp with tune, and 182 to 230 hp increase with program from diablosport.


Your using ricer math to get your 600hp. Mod's don't work that way. You cannot just slap on every bolt-on made for the car and take the rated value given by each manufactorer and add them together. 
When those numbers are given they are given with just that part dyno'ed on the car and who knows how many dyno runs before they got that optimal number. Different parts interact with each other differently when used together. Some may take away from others and some may help others.
People with super chargers and turbo's are getting around 500-600 wheel hp. There is no way you are going to get near that with bolt-on's. 
You might be able to get 500 crank hp, but definitely not to the wheels.


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

GOGTO007 said:


> Your using ricer math to get your 600hp.


A bit out of train of the thread, but I like that--"ricer math".  

More on subject, I often see mods listed as giving a range of expected HP increase, or more common, "up to 10HP" (or 'up to' whatever). I generally do a mental guestimate of about 1/5 of the rated HP, but that is just for the heck of it... dynos are what show the actual results.


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

Clueless said:


> dynos are what show the actual results.


:agree Only a dyno will show true numbers.


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

Fella above is correct. It tells your car the intake air is 54 degrees all the time. So A/F and timing is set accordingly= more RWHP. Of course if the air temp is say 90 degrees you are running a BIG TIME chance of melting your nice piston in the number 7 hole. Old trick with serious results. Go to Radio Shack and get the same resistor for like a buck and does the same thing.
Holy ****! I just read the first few post of this string and posted right smack dab in the middle of a dyno/internet/mod war.
EEEEEEEEEXXXXXCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSEEEEE MMMMMEEEEarty:


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

i'll keep this short and sweet. its not ricer math. a combination of just a few things WILL give you over 600 crank. show me a supercharged GTO and I will show you a straight engine that will beat it with less than 4k and 4 hous of work....all bolt ons with 520 to the wheels. I'm surprised goat owners don't know about it. one mod was a cam.


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

banshee said:


> i'll keep this short and sweet. its not ricer math. a combination of just a few things WILL give you over 600 crank. show me a supercharged GTO and I will show you a straight engine that will beat it with less than 4k and 4 hous of work....all bolt ons with 520 to the wheels. I'm surprised goat owners don't know about it. one mod was a cam.


Cams aren't exactly bolt-on's. You have to do head work with cam's like valve springs and retainers etc. That isn't exactly bolt-on.


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

I would listen to sgtgeek. he's 100% correct. don't fall for the gimmicks, even if they do work. easy come, easy go. me personally, I'm not into the power. a stock GTO is good enough. all I've done was JBA headers, borla exhaust, predator programmer, K&N intake, and Banshee ram air hood. I'll show pics when its done. I'm more into the looks of the car than squeezing out hp. I bought the Rhys Millen complete body kit and remote control 130 degree lambo door hinges. I don't know my hp yet, really don't care. I haven't been beat by a stang yet, and I can get 5 rotations at 85 mph out of my tires by slipping into 3rd gear without revving the clutch. I don't need 600 hp to be honest. just car show trophies.


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

I got some mods and car show trophies both 
RWHP 522
RWTQ 540
GM LQ9 Iron Block
Forged Balanced Lunati Crank/ Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Mahle Forged Pistons/Rings/ FAST Fuel Rails
Lunati Forged Rods/ 48lb Injectors
ARP Rod Bolts
SLP Underdrive Pulley
LS6 Lingenfelter Ported High Flow Oil Pump
Clay Smith Cam 238/242, .602 lift on a 114 LSA
Patriot 243 Heads 64cc Chambers flow @ 330 cfm @.640 lift
Patriot Gold dual valve springs .650 lift
Titanium Retainers
ARP Head Bolts
Perma-Cool Remote Dual Oil Filters
Perma-Cool Oil Cooler
Royal Purple Racing 41 Motor Oil w/ dual AC/Delco filters
Transmission 4L65E
Stage V built by FinishLine Transmissions
3600 Stall from Precision Industries
B&M Trannie Cooler
B&M Spin on Transmission filter
Driveline Components
3 ½” Extreme Performance Aluminum Driveshaft
Harrop Rear Differential
SLP Poly Bushings
Koni Adjustable Shocks
Pedder Drag Springs
Exhaust
Stainless Works Long Tube Headers
RT Cats
DynoMax 3” Tubes
Borla Exhaust


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm not sure how to
measure what is considered bolt on. a supercharger is considered bolt on by most people, but some people say a cam is not, some say it is. some say headers are not, depending on how easy the install is, and some say cams are easier and cheaper to install than headers and superchargers. some have a hard time installing one thing or another. I can't call it. I consider cams bolt on being that you don't have t bore and stroke anything to install them, and they're cheap to puchase and easy to install.


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

It's all bolt on man. You drop a Stroker motor in...that's a bolt on. What freaks me out...is folks that spend 10 grand modding a motor when you can go spend half of that for a crate motor that exceeds the RWHP of the motor you were trying to mod! I did it  As long as everyone is having fun with the car...that is all that matters aint it?


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

a friend has a ws-6. he paid $800.00 for the cam, and paid $1100.00 for a qy hour install. he dynoed close to a 100 hp increase to the wheels. that's $1900.00 for the same power a $6000.00 supercharger with the same install time at maybe $8-900.00. That's $6800.00 Maybe cams take a little more time to install, but its still cheaper with big results. My wallet considers that a bolt on (ha ha).


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

Sure! Forced Induction and Nitrous and such can be matched with N/A no doubt. The real test of cost effectivness is ROI ( Return on Investment)...you start getting above 450-500RWHP on these short blocks and you better be dropping some coin on bottom ends and drivelines etc. It never ends 
My orginal 600RWHP LS1.........


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## socal gto (Mar 10, 2006)

Poor engine.


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

It didn't feel a thing


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## GOGTO007 (May 18, 2006)

banshee said:


> a friend has a ws-6. he paid $800.00 for the cam, and paid $1100.00 for a qy hour install. he dynoed close to a 100 hp increase to the wheels. that's $1900.00 for the same power a $6000.00 supercharger with the same install time at maybe $8-900.00. That's $6800.00 Maybe cams take a little more time to install, but its still cheaper with big results. My wallet considers that a bolt on (ha ha).


I never said cams weren't a good mod. I love putting cams on cars. I just think it's a little more involved than most people think of a bolt-on being. Shoot, I'm sure after a few years of driving this car or maybe sooner that I'll be in the market to get a cam installed. I'm not doubting the power of these engines. That's why I went with the LS2 over other import choices out there. I just think that it takes a lot more "bolt-ons" to get the same power that a super or turbo charger adds. That's why people go FI.
I'm sure if you count cams as bolt-on's and do every other supporting bolt-on out there that you can be in the same ballpark, but also if you go FI and say build the head then your talking more power at higher RPM's so it can go back and forth.


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

banshee said:


> Borla has a nice exhaust setup with 5" tips. I noticed a BIG improvement. A friend of mine has Corsa, but no increase in performance, although it sounds great. JAB headers are 50 state smog legal and add 30 hp to the wheels with 34 fp of torque with ignition wire upgrades on a stock gto. The Banshee ram air hood adds 25 hp to the wheels. After you do all that, then add a program, or have your engine tuned. Then you will feel the power of your goat. There is no need for turbos or superchargers, as there are ways to get upwards of 600 hp without them. If your mechanic can't squeeze 30 hp out of a tune, go somewhere else. I think the Diablosport predator III is better. It adds 12% hp on top of whatever hp you already have. If you have 400 hp, it will give you 460. At least thats what they say for the 2005 GTO.


I don't see where he mentions "bolt-on" to start the mod war but if people comprehended what they read better these arguments would almost never start. But to a grease monkey, the term "bolt-on" refers to components that are added without changing any internal components like a cam or crank. I believe that he was just comparing the ability for large hp gains without using forced induction.

Well, I no longer have access to a good garage and lift to do my own work. I was hoping that some company would come out with a preset program that would give a more radical tune to these cars. I know that wan't be optimal but I don't know of any good tuners in my area that can do this for a reasonable price.


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## MJGTOWISH (Jun 15, 2006)

deantion ?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

MJGTOWISH said:


> deantion ?



*WTF is that?* :willy: :willy: :willy: :willy: :rofl:


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## TR GTO (Mar 17, 2007)

GTO judge said:


> *WTF is that?* :willy: :willy: :willy: :willy: :rofl:


*DEAN*tion?
YEAAAAHHHHHH!


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

This is CRYSTAL CLEAR, any questions? 



SgtGeek said:


> Sure! Forced Induction and Nitrous and such can be matched with N/A no doubt. The real test of cost effectivness is ROI ( Return on Investment)...you start getting above 450-500RWHP on these short blocks and you better be dropping some coin on bottom ends and drivelines etc. It never ends
> My orginal 600RWHP LS1.........


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## Castro (Mar 6, 2007)

Detonation?

Bolt on means ON the engine, not IN the engine.

The old IAT mod I did as a kid on my little mazda mx6- I believe it also boosted the trans fluid pressure to the max level for a stronger shift on the ATX, maybe the same is true for an auto goat? It cost my $3 at radio shack and 20 minutes to do (homemade on/off switch for the IAT sensor mounted in the glove box). It definately flipped the CEL every time.


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

after reading this old post i've decided i want to go for the 4.00 inch bolt on crank for added torque. really it bolts right on and so do the rods bolt right on to it. good thing i just bought this snap-on rachet, i can easily find all of the bolts.


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