# Getting Tired of the Problems...Need Advice



## YeloTXGoat38 (Mar 12, 2007)

Ok, so I posted this on LS1GTO also, but I want opinions:

OK, here is a list of all of the problems (that I can remember) I have had since I bought my car in early 2006:

1. On third clutch
2. Transmission replaced
3. Parking Brake broke
4. Driver's side seat back fell off
5. Driver's side door lock broke
6. Bell housing leak (caused first clutch replacement)
7. Rear main seal leak (caused second clutch replacement)
8. Water pump replaced
9. Rear end locker/posi trac replacement (currently in shop for this)
10.Steering wheel controls go out of whack from time to time (have just put up with this)
11. Shifter broke off

Okay......I've never even taken my car to the track. I get on it once in a while, other than that I've babied the car. I am the third owner, I found out from Carfax, when I bought it at 21,000 miles . I think that the second owner was just the dealer that sold it at an auction. The car was immaculate when I bought it and the engine is very strong.

Do I have any argument lemon-wise, since it hasn't been repeat issues?

I have the 100,000 extended warranty, thank God, but I'm upside down bigtime on my car, and it has 59K+ miles on it. I love it when it isn't in the shop, which is about every other month. Would you trade it in? I'm shopping around. 

You know, I've put so much into this car, too, it's killing me. It's becoming a liability to me, though, you know?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

As far as I know, you have to take it in three times for the same repair, and after three times if the same problem is still a problem, then the lemon law comes into play.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Rukee is exactly right, 3 times for the same issue, then it has to cause you problems a 4th time in most states. 

You either just got a bad one, or the guy that owned it before you thrashed it. 

if your upside down, your pretty much stuck and should thank God you have the warranty. Wait till your close to not being upside down, usually the 3rd year of ownership if you financed the whole amount, to do anything, or you'll just carryover the negative equity into a deeper hole. 

Good luck.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Each state has different guidelines. For the most part the lemon law is only good on new cars, but some states will recognize used cars, it depends on your state. You are a 3rd owner though. READ BELOW

IMO the previous owner(s) had problems and dumped it. Now it's your problem and your turn to dump it. 

I would recommend a vin check through a dealer to see what if any warranty claims were made, and corrected. 

Try this link, you can get FREE advise from a lemon law atty.
Your Free Lemon Case Review - Kahn & Associates, L.L.C.


Here is a link state by state. Lemon Law America

Here is a generic overview of the Lemon Law:

Lemon Law Information
Lemon Law Guides
State Lemon Law Statutes


Think your Car is a Lemon? Your State may agree, but maybe not to your liking. See how your State defines what a Lemon is and if your Car and its Repair History qualify.

Nearly all State Lemon Law Statutes are similar to the Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which makes breach of warranty a violation of federal law. All States have enacted their own Warranty Acts and many States have enacted specific Statutes that pertain to Automobile Warranties. If your car is not considered a "lemon" in your State, you do have other recourses.

Lemon Law Summaries - Lemon Law Summaries for each State.
Lemon Law Statutes - Lemon Law Statutes for each State.



What is a Lemon?
A vehicle that continues to have a defect that substantially impairs its use, value, or safety. Generally, if the car has been repaired 4 or more times for the same Defect within the Warranty Period and the Defect has not been fixed, the car qualifies as a Lemon. All States differ so you should consult the Lemon Law Summary and the State Statutes for your particular State. Note that the warranty period may or may not coincide with the Manufacturer's Warranty.

Do I have a Lemon?
If the paint is peeling, the light switch came out when you pulled on it, the car makes "funny noises" but otherwise drives just fine, or you found 10 things you don't like about your new car but none of them prevent you from driving it, then No, you do not have a Lemon.

If the brakes don't work, the car won't go into reverse gear, the darn thing won't start on cold mornings or hot afternoons, the rear door opens all by itself, the driver's seat wobbles, or the car chugs along at 30 mph when it should be going 50 mph, then Yes, you may have a Lemon. Providing you've given the manufacturer an opportunity to repair the defect.

In most States, 10 different defects during the Warranty Period does not brand the car as a Lemon. In some States, a single defect that might cause Serious Injury makes your car a Lemon if the manufacturer cannot fix the problem within 1 attempt.

You may have a Lemon, but if you do nothing to protect your Consumer Rights, such as documenting your Repairs and allowing the Manufacturer a chance to fix the problem(s), you lose all rights under the various State Warranty Acts.

Do I need a Lawyer?
The answer depends upon which State you Purchased or Registered your car in. In some States and with proper documentation, you simply file a Complaint. In other States, you will need to hire an Attorney.

Who pays the Lawyer?
Only about half of the States allow you to recover Attorney Fees. If your Attorney sues under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, you will be awarded Attorney Fees if you win. Note that an Attorney's Fee is based upon actual time expended rather than being tied to any percentage of the recovery. In some States, you must pay the manufacturer's Attorney Fees if you lose.
*
Is a Used or Leased Car protected?*
*It depends upon which State the car was purchased or leased in*. Some states include used and leased cars in their Lemon Law statutes. Some states have separate laws for used vehicles. Some states provide protection only for new cars. In some states, even the Attorney General is unable to tell you if a Leased vehicle is covered due to the way the law is phrased and you will be referred to an Attorney for clarification of the law. See the Lemon Law Summary and the State Statutes for your particular State to determine what is covered.

What about Motor Homes and Motorcycles?
Most States cover the drive train portion of Motor Homes (that part which is not used for dwelling purposes). Motorcycles are generally not covered but a few states do include them in their lemon law statutes.

If you have a defective Motorcycle, Motor Home, used car, leased car, or a car used for business purposes and your State Lemon Law does not cover these vehicles, you still have other recourses such as the Uniform Commercial Code and the Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (providing you were given a written warranty). Consult with an Attorney that specializes in this area.


Tips to Protect your Investment

* Often times, your new car isn't suspected of being a Lemon until it is too late (out of warranty, over the mileage limit, etc). If you keep a record of every repair visit, starting with the first one, you will protect your rights under Consumer Laws. Our Repair Log makes it easy to record every Repair Attempt.

* Document everything! This includes notes, who you talk to, what is said, dates and times. Put your complaints in writing and keep a copy for yourself. Be sure to obtain a copy of any Warranty Repair Orders. Demand a copy if necessary and if the dealer will not give you one, be sure to document the fact. When you pick up your car, obtain an Invoice. The dealer may claim that you are not entitled to an Invoice because there were no charges (you were not invoiced for any repairs). It is up to you to prove repair attempts! The final Invoice shows what was or was not repaired.

* Make absolutely sure the dealer records your complaint on the Repair Order exactly as you describe it. You must make sure to describe the defect exactly the same on each repair visit or you may forfeit your rights under the "reasonable attempts to repair for the same defect" clause.

* Be sure that the date, time in, and odometer reading are recorded as well as the date and time you picked up the car. In most States you are covered by the Lemon Law if the vehicle has been in the repair shop for an accumulative number of days during the coverage period.

* If your car fails in the middle of the desert or in the middle lane of rush hour freeway traffic, record the date and time, the amount of time you had to wait for assistance, whether or not you had to rent a car, and your general overall feelings. The emotional trauma dealing with a defective vehicle has a lot of bearing on your case should you need to go to arbitration or court.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Texas Lemon Law Statutes

Here is Texas's L.L.


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## YeloTXGoat38 (Mar 12, 2007)

Thanks for the help, appreciate it. I'm torn between trading it in, or sucking it up, putting up with the repairs, and paying more or all of it off.

Thing is I'm retiring from the Army in August, and moving out to MA to be with my gf. With gas prices and all, having to look for a job, an economical and reliable car is looking better and better to me.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

IMO....If I were having the problems you are having, I'd dump it. That's what the previous owners did.

Once you get to MA and get the GTO bug again, there will be others, most likely with a lot less hassles than you are having now.

Good Luck:cheers


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Wow, that really sucks, I feel for you... It seems very obvious that a previous owner was EXTREMELY HARD on your car... But you may be getting toward the end of the damage, and with a fresh driveline from the clutch-on-back, many many miles of trouble-free driving... 

I bought my '06 M6 with 9,000 miles on it.... From a 65 year old retired dentist... I've had no problems.


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## YeloTXGoat38 (Mar 12, 2007)

69bossnine said:


> Wow, that really sucks, I feel for you... It seems very obvious that a previous owner was EXTREMELY HARD on your car... But you may be getting toward the end of the damage, and with a fresh driveline from the clutch-on-back, many many miles of trouble-free driving...
> 
> I bought my '06 M6 with 9,000 miles on it.... From a 65 year old retired dentist... I've had no problems.



Yeah, I have thought the same thing - that with a mostly fresh driveline now in place, it may be good for quite a while, now. I may consider giving it one more try, then give it up.

I have an emotional attachment, to it, which I'm sure many of you can relate to....it's hard to let go of.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

YeloTXGoat38 said:


> Yeah, I have thought the same thing - that with a mostly fresh driveline now in place, it may be good for quite a while, now. I may consider giving it one more try, then give it up.
> 
> I have an emotional attachment, to it, which I'm sure many of you can relate to....it's hard to let go of.


I had this 2002 Z06 that I bought used, 2 owners and low miles on it in 2004. I had that thing to the dealer once a week for the 3 months straight for all kinds of problems. Even though the car was out of warranty, the dealer felt bad for me and got GM to agree that most of the problems shouldn't have happened. 

I gave up when I started having electrical problems that came and went. I always wondered, did I quit too early. Were the fuel guage and door controls the last problems or was it never going to stop. I checked Carfax about a month ago. The guy that bought it still has it. There is a total of 4 entries on the car since I sold it 3 years ago. The guy has been to the dealer for service with problems 4 times and put 30,000 miles on it. 

Still don't know for sure though, he may have fixed some of the problems himself or at a repair place that doesn't report to Carfax.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Here is a true story a friend of mine just shared with me...

His brother in law recently purchased a "great condition" 1999 Cadillac off an old guy. Got a good deal for 5K. A day after having the car he noticed an oil puddle in his driveway. He took it to his garage for a diagnosis. 

He was told there is 3 leaks, the major one being the main seals. The engine must be pulled at an estimate of 3-5K to fix the leaks. His brother in law said to the mechanic, I wonder if this guy knew there was a problem? The Mechanic responded, he sure did that car was just in here we are the ones that gave him an estimate to fix it.

He is now in the process of trying to dump the car.

Moral of the story... Get a used car checked out before you buy one.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I usually follow this when buying a used car. I keep in mind that somone got rid of it for a reason. I then need to figure out what that reason was. 

In the case of my Cavalier, they got rid of it because the wife was pregnant and they had a 1-1/2 year old and wanted a little bit bigger car with 4 doors. The dealer was willing to back that story up by showing me the sales contract for the Ford Fusion they bought. It was a manual transmission to top it off so I guess they like stickshifts. 

I also asked to have them lift the car so I could look underneath it. I got them to show me the service work when they took it in. The front brakes were new, the back were at a little more than half and all they did was change the oil. 

I also carfaxed it and it came up clean before I went to look at it. 

With the Z06, I ignored most of this advice. I ignored the issues on the Carfax. I ignored my advice to never buy a car that has been modified. I ignored that the rear tires were at half and the fronts almost new meaning someone had been hard on it. I never figured out the reason the person traded it in. I got burnt. At least I got a good enough deal that I only lost $2000 on it in a 4 month period of time.

Here's what you need to take from this, you learned something and that education carried a price tag. The best education you get rarely comes free. You'll be wiser with the next purchase you make and hopefully won't repeat this error. Good luck with whatever you decide Yelo.


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## YeloTXGoat38 (Mar 12, 2007)

Thanks, Ferg. Yep, learned my lesson. I bought it shortly after a divorce, when my credit was bad. It was my first muscle car, and all I know is that I saw it and wanted it. The price was right, and didn't really think much beyond that.

I can't imagine a Z06, I would have thought even less. I found an 03 Z06 with 50k miles on it for my buddy for 20k, had minor body damage. That car's been pretty good to him, and boy, is it a lot of fun to drive/ride in!


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

*Sell!!! Selll!!! Selll!!!*

I know... I sound like Benedict Arnold... as I love my car (06 Stealth Gray 6M). I sold my 02 WRX before buying a new GTO. My Subie spent 2.5 years of the 4.5 that I had it in the shop. Granted, it had STi engine transplant (jdm 2.0, rather than USDM 2.5), and a mod list that read like war and peace. I never thought I'd sell it. I spent over $7k the year before I sold it for $10.5K on parts and repairs. But man... I felt like an emancipated slave when I handed over the keys. Would I buy another used car?? Well, it depends. But on your topic, I'd say screw the cost, sell it. Money is replaceable, peace of mind, the stress it's on your life, and the constant love-hate relationship isn't worth keeping it. It's a car. After all has been said and done, you can always buy something better, and recover from the financial blow.


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## J.E.T. (Sep 30, 2005)

Contact Krohn & Moss.........you can Google for a location near you. They handled my Magnuson-Moss action on my CTS and GM paid the fees. I don't know about used cars but they'll tell you real quick if you have a case.

JET


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