# Vararam + TB spacer = CEL



## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

Ok so this morning I installed a throttle body spacer, vararam otrcai and msd ignition wires. However once I was done, the car won't start... Didn't have much time to mess with it because I had to go to work. It would just crank and crank but wouldn't turn over. The CEL came on and it ding ding dinged. Did I miss something? I hope it's just my obliviousness and is something obvious I missed. Also, maybe this is bad idk, but I shortened the piping from the throttle body to the maf, and in doing so lost room to put in the pcv conncection, so I just routed it into the filter housing, if that makes sense. Could that be the problem?

Thanks in advance.


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I just got a scanner and tried to read any codes, but it just kept saying it couldn't read the data.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Make sure your MAF is facing the right way. Unhook your batter and hook it back up. It will reset your fuel trims. Also my CAI has a sensor in it, did you plug that back in?

Did you take your TB off at all?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

MAF facing correct way, Check.
Unhook battery, Check. It was off for more than an hour btw
a sensor in the CAI? other than the purple MAF/IAT hookup, what other sensor is there? I did link the PCV to the filter box, the actual plastic surrounding the filter element, instead of the tubing from the MAF to the TB. Could this be the problem?

I did take the TB off to put the spacer on, but I followed the instructions to the letter, everything seems tight front to back...


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GTOgasm said:


> MAF facing correct way, Check.
> Unhook battery, Check. It was off for more than an hour btw
> a sensor in the CAI? other than the purple MAF/IAT hookup, what other sensor is there? I did link the PCV to the filter box, the actual plastic surrounding the filter element, instead of the tubing from the MAF to the TB. Could this be the problem?
> 
> I did take the TB off to put the spacer on, but I followed the instructions to the letter, everything seems tight front to back...


I'm not too familiar with the LS2 as it is drive by wire, but I sware I read somewhere that if you removed the TB there was something special you had to do after that to get it adjusted right. I'm gonna search cause it got me courious too.

EDIT: Didn't find anything, maybe I'm just being stupid as I have cabin fever here at work. Too bored and time isn't passing.


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

I understand about the crankcase vent hose. What you did is not good but will not prevent starting. I can explain later if you like.

It sounds like you need to disconnect the TB and the MAF, verify you didn't bend any pins and reseat them. Also verify you didn't cut any wires. I have installed 2 OTRCAIs and never had an issue with removing the TB and reinstalling. Verify all of your wiring, even to the point of starting over - remove it all and reinstall.

Did you put the wires on in the correct firing order?

Never seen any gains from the spacer.

Can you post pics?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

if you could explain why that's not good, directing the pcv into the filter element, that would be awesome. i wasn't sure about that but you're probably right, i am just interested in understanding why. i can't get any pictures atm, but i'll see if i can get some if it's not too dark.

i did remove the tb but i'll double check the wiring and such, including the pins on the connector.

as for the spark plug wires, they just go right from the top of the head to the plug, they are only like 8 inches long... they don't criss cross so they're in the right order.


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

GTOgasm said:


> if you could explain why that's not good, directing the pcv into the filter element, that would be awesome. i wasn't sure about that but you're probably right, i am just interested in understanding why. i can't get any pictures atm, but i'll see if i can get some if it's not too dark.
> 
> i did remove the tb but i'll double check the wiring and such, including the pins on the connector.
> 
> as for the spark plug wires, they just go right from the top of the head to the plug, they are only like 8 inches long... they don't criss cross so they're in the right order.


I was just joking on the plug wires. Sorry.

Ok, here is the problem with the way you plumbed the crankcase vent line. Take a look at how it is plumbed stock. Let's follow the air flow. It comes in through the filter, then through the MAF (this is the important part) so it is all measured. Then it goes through the line attached to the inlet pipe and into the valve cover. Down through the engine, through the vent line and into the intake manifold.
Now lets look at your way. Filtered? check. Through the MAF, NO. So your engine is getting unmetered air. This can lead to a lean condition as your engine is getting more air than the MAF and ECU thinks. What saves you on day to day driving is the O2 sensor (and this is where dry-shot N2O guys also screw up). The O2 sensor will tell the ECU that is is seeing lean condition and the ECU shoots more fuel. No prob. When you go WOT (wide open throttle) and the engine goes into PE (Power enrichment), the ECU no longer cares what the O2 sensor says and will deliver fuel as programed. If you are tuned for this, you are covered. But this setup must be in place when getting tuned and your tuner must understand PE tuning which, sadly most do not. Going lean while at WOT will make the car faaaaast, but also will burn a piston.
Now the internet mechanics out there will tell you at WOT your manifold vacuum drops away and this is no problem. And they are right about the vacuum dropping away but the airflow is still there. Just be careful and get it tuned.
If you are a member of GTOAA, my contact info is in each edition of the Legend. Feel free to contact me off-line.

Jerry


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I put the stock one back on and it still won't start.


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

GTOgasm said:


> I put the stock one back on and it still won't start.


You put the stock what back on? This has to be a simple fix.......when you turn the key on, not start but on, do you get a CEL? What happens exactly when you try to start? Can you read engine codes? Possible have access to HP Tuners via someone close? Check the direction of the MAF for me. I know you installed it correct but check that arrow?

Actually as I sit here and think about it, it has to be the throttle body. It should start even if the MAF wasn't there. Sure it would throw codes but it would still start. I have a spare manifold / TB from an 05 at home, going to go look.


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I haven't tried just turning the key to ON, not START, but I'll check when I get home. I'm 99% sure the maf was facing correctly, but once again I'll look just in case. When I try to start it just cranks for ~4s then cuts off. I tried to use an OBDII scanner but it would always say unable to read vehicle data or reset codes. I tried a bunch of different things but they wouldn't work. 

Why would the TB be an issue? When I took it off all I did was unbolt it and lift it up until it needed to be put back on, I never even unplugged it.


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

well? I didn't know that you didn't unconnect the TB. Pinch the wire?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I've been at work all day but I'll look


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

no pinched wires, no cut wires, MAF is facing the right way, and everything is clipped in... this is so dumb, am i retarded? what did i do wrong that would make the stock intake stop working?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

i just reset the ecu again and still nothing. same situation.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GTOJer said:


> Actually as I sit here and think about it, it has to be the throttle body. It should start even if the MAF wasn't there. Sure it would throw codes but it would still start. I have a spare manifold / TB from an 05 at home, going to go look.


Yep, I am pretty sure it is the TB also. LS1GTO.com Forums - '06 Throttle Position Relearn- How?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

so i guess i'm going to have to try again with a scanner? i tried for almost half an hour with one two days ago, and it would just keep saying, unable to read vehicle data.


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## nron (Jul 28, 2009)

Can you read the codes on the dash when you hold the start/mode and turn the key? Cycle through till the code section?? 

Not sure if this would even work if the car doesn't crank over. Haven't tried it without starting the car........


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I was wondering if you could use the DIC or HUD whatever it is to get codes, but I hadn't tried anything with it yet. 

Do you just hold mode and set then insert the key and try to start it?


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Get your owners manual, it will tell you there. If you can't find it/don't have one download one from GM Parts House. its free.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

I might be wrong but don't the GTOs have a seperate fuse for the fuel pump. Don't know if it is possible but seeing that he removed the T/B, maybe a wire got twisted and shorted a fuse. I think the fuse for the fuel pump is located in the box under the hood on the passenger side, it should be the very last fuse towards the windshield on the outside row.

NO FUEL = NO START


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## MJGTOWISH (Jun 15, 2006)

GTOgasm said:


> I was wondering if you could use the DIC or HUD whatever it is to get codes, but I hadn't tried anything with it yet.
> 
> Do you just hold mode and set then insert the key and try to start it?


*
Get some pics from under the hood.....*


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I STILL cannot read any codes. I went and got ANOTHER scanner and it WON'T read or clear anything. I don't know what else to try because I don't know any more information. If I swapped it back to stock... WHAT IS WRONG?


I checked the gas cap as well.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Air, fuel, spark. Start elliminating what is missing

Air - is the TB even open at all?

Fuel - is your fuel pump ok? do you have pressure, ect

Spark- do you have spark? are wires in correct order?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I can hear the fuel pump come on... How can I check for fuel?
I made sure all of the plug wires were clicked in, how do I check for spark then?
I made sure the TB isn't blocked and the blade can move freely, how else do I check for air?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Fuel pressure can be check by the schrader valve on the driverside fuel rail. You can use a gauge or use a small screwdriver with a rag to see if fuel is present. You can loosen the TB just enough to allow air to pass to get it to start. 

1: Disconnect the battery, check all wires, disconnect and reconnect connections at the ECM, TB, MAF, coil packs and everything else in the area you was working in.

2: Put back your original spark plug wires

3: Check all underhood fuses

4: Reconnect battery

I perfer to physicaly troulbleshoot someones car rather than blert out random stuff.


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

1, 2, 3, 4, check, check, check, check... Same result. 

This is bs.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Sounds like its time to take it to a shop.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

jpalamar said:


> Sounds like its time to take it to a shop.


+ 1. time to get it to a good shop. He is going to drive himself crazy trying to figure it out and there is only so much information he can get from us without someone actually going to his house to look at it


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

I went and got a scanner that acutally worked and there weren't any codes... Is that possible if the CEL is on?


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Take a pic of your dash? What is the exact message it is displaying?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

Imageshack pass
Imageshack dash
Imageshack working
Imageshack read codes


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

Where are you located?


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

DFW Texas. 
I know a performance parts/service place nearby, I'm looking for a reputable tow service to get me over there and see if we can sort this out.


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## GTOgasm (Oct 8, 2009)

DFW Texas. 
I know a performance parts/service place nearby, I'm looking for a reputable tow service to get me over there and see if we can sort this out.


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