# What makes the judge better then a ram air III



## skapegoat (Nov 5, 2008)

It seems to me that the 70 judge is more sought after and valuable then the ram air III cars. They made twice as many judges as the ram air III's but as far as I can tell they had all the same options. Am I missing something?


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Stickers FTW!! :lol:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

What you're seeing is the marketing genius of Jim Wangers. He had a knack for predicting what was going to be popular with they buying public, especially the younger set. The "buzz" he created around the Judge is still going today.

Bear


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

The below goes beyond the R/A III post but in case some didn't know:

The '69 Judge was created to compete with the '69 Road Runner that came out to compete against the '68 GTO. The '69 Judge was to be a one year only car. Despite protests not to by Wangers and his gang, Pontiac brought back the Judge for 1970. Sales were dismal until Orbit Orange was introduced at mid year which revived sales.(The name Orbit came from NASA putting men into orbit) Again despite protests not to Pontiac brought the Judge back for 1971 and sales were miserable and they tanked bad. Most sought after Judge is the 1971 CV. Only 17 were made.

Many don't know but in '69 the first Judge was not originally Carousel Red. it was Limelight Green. That car was then painted Carousel Red. The car was rushed to scheduled picture shoots before the finalized graphics were installed. The first '69 Judge picture shows a different stripe and Judge logo on the fender. 

The glovebox logo didn't set well with the advertisers and were omitted. When DeLorean caught wind of this he demanded they be installed. Some in early '69 didn't have them until they were ordered then installed. Some early production '69 Judges had a different color scheme (red blue yellow) in graphics. In Dec '69 the colors were changed to the red black yellow. 

The infighting with the Chevy division over Pontiac's request to use Hugger Orange as the Judge color prompted Pontiac to "steal" Hugger Orange and rename it with a different color and code. Carousel Red. It all started with Pontiac refusing Chevy's request to use their then popular Verdoro Green color.

Many I run into think all Judges were orange. Carousel Red was a Judge only production color. That color was a factory ordered 1969 option. I see a few Firebirds from time to time with that color on them.


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## skapegoat (Nov 5, 2008)

Average NADA value on my ram air III is $31,455 and the equally optioned judge is $63,585. Those are some expensive stickers.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

In the movie two lane blacktop with actor Warren Oates, was that GTO a Judge? I think it was 1970.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

God bless the marketing genius of Jim Wagner!!!!!:cheers


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

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Better put one on your bucket list. What's not to like!!!!!!!!!:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Roger that said:


> In the movie two lane blacktop with actor Warren Oates, was that GTO a Judge? I think it was 1970.


I think it was just a '70 and not a Judge. Some shots it looked like a Judge some shown it obviously wasn't. I believed they used multiple cars one being a clone. Many times there are quick shots but when pausing it you can see 2 different cars. Hollywood.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree. Just saw it (yet again!) and it's a 1970 GTO. It _IS_ the ultra rare "Mark IV 455", to quote Warren Oates.... gotta go adjust my valves and check my jets.....


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Marketing, perception....and the stickers....


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

Looking back when the Judge came out, can you imagine how wild or exotic that car was with the race car look and colors like orbit orange and don't forget about that big wing?


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## par4n1 (Jan 28, 2010)

My brother in law (Freddie) bought a new Judge back in 69 or 70. He traded in or sold his 67 GTO to get it. I was about 10yrs old and he took me to skateland to go roller skating. We met a Roadrunner along the way and had a little drag race....my mom freaked when he hit he throttle. His was a red on black hardtop with i the smaller 400cdi I think. I'll get a few pictures together and post them. It should be cool looking at vintage pictures of the car when it was new. From that day I wanted a GTO. Freddie has suffered for years after selling it and it is a current topic of discussion between us every holiday. I hope he is excited when he sees my new Tempest at Christmas.

Not too sure I can download a poloroid :confused
Marcus


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

geeteeohguy said:


> I agree. Just saw it (yet again!) and it's a 1970 GTO. It _IS_ the ultra rare "Mark IV 455", to quote Warren Oates.... gotta go adjust my valves and check my jets.....


I saw this movie for the first time a few months back. "I gotta check the jets" seemed to be 25% of the dialogue in the film. Would be cool to see a remake of this movie. 

I DVR'd it and happened to use the restroom right at the final drag race when the movie abruptly ends when I came out I was surprised to find another movie starting. I thought the DVR messed up and didn't record the whole movie.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

They were some optimists thinking a stock Judge is going to hang with a tunnel rammed big block drag prepped 55 Chevy, 11 second car compared to low 13 stock car. Good movie, stupid dialog from GTO guy. He would of got smoked in a drag race, but he did have a nice Judge.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I would have bet on the 55 for sure in a quarter mile race ( hey, it _*was*_ *Chevy* powered!) but the Judge would have it hands down in the cross country race (it was a "city car" and prolly a lot more comfortable). 

Warren Oates biggest liability was his penchant for picking up wierd hitchhikers.......


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

When I saw the movie back in the '70's, the concept of two MUSICIANS operating a clapped out, brutal-t0-the-bone '55 Chev was in itself hard to grasp. And when "the jets" had to be checked every 15 minutes, I really started to enjoy the show. Agreed, the GTO would be no match in a drag race (The '55 was actually a real-life hypo build, capable of mid- 11 second e.t's), but from the Southwest to DC, that long-legged GTO would have cleaned its clock. The picture absolutely nails the grimy, no-glamour, flat broke world of the amateur street racer 40 years ago, though.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Yeah, my favorite parts of the movie are the very begining (Love the Superbird with bigs and littles and running from the cops, brings back some memories) and the end (LOTS of vintage drag cars and the action sequence before the film burns out is excellent cinematography IMO) Everything else in between is meh.....:lol:


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## 69Goatee (Aug 14, 2009)

I think the 55 Cheby was the same one Harrison Ford drove and crashed in American Graffiti.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Goatee, you are correct. It was used in the street scenes. The roll over wreck was another car. You can see the silver painted wheels, and other differences. The '55 still exists, as does Milner's '32 coupe......


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Jeff is correct, read the link:

American Graffiti – The Cars Milner’s Ford Falfa’s Chevy Wolfman Jack


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

geeteeohguy said:


> Goatee, you are correct. It was used in the street scenes. The roll over wreck was another car. You can see the silver painted wheels, and other differences. The '55 still exists, as does Milner's '32 coupe......


One of my favorite movies. I was born a generation too late. I would kill, well not really, to have John's '32 5 window. I have a diecast of it..... Wasn't it on the block at Barrett at one time? Maybe it was a "tribute".


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