# new guy thinkin about buying a GTO as a daily driver... questions!



## musclecar70sfan (Feb 18, 2011)

Hey guys, well with my old DD... well being old (1994 GMC Jimmy), I figured it's time for a new one. I'm really having a hard time with the notion of buying a fwd Jetta, so I'd really like to buy a GTO. They look sweet, they're powerful, and they're pretty affordable. I was just wondering about your thoughts of on as a daily driver in Connecticut. Yep, it's gonna see winter. I heard that these things are pretty planted in the snow, despite being a sporty rwd car and I figured that I should be fine with snow tires and some careful driving. I consider myself a decent driver (for a 19 year old anyway); both of my cars so far are RWD with no traction control/stability gizmos. My Jimmy is the 4x4 model but I spend 98% of the time in RWD, and my 91 Trans Am is obviously RWD. I just can't stand FWD.

Anybody want to share any personal experiences with their Goats in the snow?

How about gas mileage? The EPA website is saying 16 mpg city and 26 highway (for the 6-speed, which is all that I'd consider getting anyway). But the mpg numbers seem to fluctuate everywhere. Do the Goats only drink premium or can they use lower-grade fuel? What kind of mileage do you average? My driving involves at least 50% highway cruising. I'm hoping it can do better that my Jimmy's 14 mpg average? lol

And reliability... am I gonna be calling AAA often? lol

There's a dealership near me selling a silver 2004 GTO 6-speed with 44,000 miles for $16k. That's $500 over blue book but I'll try to negotiate. How reasonable do you think the dealer's price is? Mileage definitely seems good. Anything specific to watch out for in a used GTO? I know the basics, ie looking for sludge under oil cap, burnt smelling transmission fluid, black oil on dipstick, funny ticks/knocks, etc. Anything else? The carfax on this car is spotless with 2 previous owners. It looks like I'll be visiting it this Saturday afternoon so I'll bring pictures back. 

And if anybody knows of any 6-speed GTOs for sale in CT being sold in the mid-teens don't hesitate to let me know!


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## Weisberg16 (Jan 5, 2011)

Gas milage on the 04s isn't bad. I had one and it got like 27 highway. If you drive nicely that is.Very powerful cars. My 05 is horrible but I have a procharger and a mean tune so I am getting like 22 at 70mph. They normally get like 24 to 25 at 70mph. Traction control does wonders in the snow but these cars rear ends seem to want to swing. Be careful. Oh and reliability is kinda of a luck thing. Engine wise they are great. The transmission is also good if it wasn't beat up. My rear end went out on my 04 gto after 40000 miles. But the car was beat on. some squealing from the engine bay also...UMMM and the price they are asking is okay. Could be much lower though. I payed that for 30000 miles. Very clean carfax. Look around before you settle on that one.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Short answer: don't bother with it if you'll have to DD it in snow. Yeah, people claim they manage... we'll see. I sure as hell wouldn't pick it for a primary winter vehicle.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

I drive mine year round, it's a fine DD.

Winter driving isn't as bad as everyone says it will be (I think a lot of people based on their comments wouldn't drive a Charger, Challenger, 300C or Mustang in the snow even though thousands of people do). It's marginally worse than a 250 HP FWD car with 17+ inch wheels (I used to drive a Saab 9-3 Aero). If you know how to steer, then you are fine.

The only time I was stranded (at home) was when my street had 4-5 inches of unplowed snow. Otherwise I've never had an issue and I've driven it in snow, ice, and blizzard like conditions.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

musclecar70sfan said:


> Hey guys, well with my old DD... well being old (1994 GMC Jimmy), I figured it's time for a new one. I'm really having a hard time with the notion of buying a fwd Jetta, so I'd really like to buy a GTO. They look sweet, they're powerful, and they're pretty affordable. I was just wondering about your thoughts of on as a daily driver in Connecticut. Yep, it's gonna see winter. I heard that these things are pretty planted in the snow, despite being a sporty rwd car and I figured that I should be fine with snow tires and some careful driving. I consider myself a decent driver (for a 19 year old anyway); both of my cars so far are RWD with no traction control/stability gizmos. My Jimmy is the 4x4 model but I spend 98% of the time in RWD, and my 91 Trans Am is obviously RWD. I just can't stand FWD.
> 
> Anybody want to share any personal experiences with their Goats in the snow?
> 
> ...


1. I have 72k miles on my and its my DD. I drive in all kinds of weather. Only got stuck 1 time in the snow and it was only because I didn't put my all-seasons on.

2. I drive 50+ miles each day to work, mixed highway and bumper and I avg about 18.5-19 MPG with spirited driving on weekends. You MUST use premium.

3. Realiabilty - no better/worse then any other car when something does fail you better belive it isn't going to be cheap. Parts for the GTO are 2X what they would cost for a Camaro/Mustang. Most of them you can't just go buy something in a pinch, everything is special order or has to be bought from the few aftermarket companies. This is bad for a DD.

4. I love the feel and drive of my car, but I wish I would of done a little research on it first. If I could do it all over again, I would run the other way.


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

The 04 you are considering seems reasonable. 
Some of the problems when looking for these cars is to consider how much they are all stock or if there have been some Mods done. The mods can either be in the drive train, suspension (most common) or the body and most dealers don't have a clue what they are looking at as far as mods ... so it is up to you to know what you are looking at and buying. I also live in NE and I would suggest you keep your 4x4 for the snow days cause the GTO can get pretty squirly in the snow and impossible on ice. 

I do know of another 04 with just 13.6K miles for $15,999 on AutoTrader @ Langan Audi East in Latham, NY (Phone: 1-888-370-6706). With just 13K this car should be pretty stock (Black w/Red interior). Latham is about 90 miles from Hartford ... around Albany NY.


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## Andrew6 (Feb 15, 2011)

I just put my corvette up so got a 2004 for a daily driver and have to say I'm pretty satisfied with it. Its got a few small issues and doesn't have the tightness in the steering I'm use to but the ride is alot smoother and all around a damn good car for the money. As for snow purposes I don't know as I live in houston and snow is an oddity here.


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## musclecar70sfan (Feb 18, 2011)

Well I visited the 04 yesterday and I was a bit disappointed with it. First off, it turned out to be one of those sketchy used car dealerships on the Berlin Turnpike (if you're familiar with the area then you know what I'm talking about lol). The salesperson told me over the phone that it was all original without any modifications. Well the long tube headers and half-assed aftermarket gauges beg to differ. Just thought I'd share:

2004 Pontiac GTO, $15,995 - Cars.com

Is it normal for the paint to peel around the door handles like this?









Notice the kink in the passenger side exhaust pipe and all of the rust on such a low mileage car:









Is there a cover for these wires?









I don't think these were even secured; look at those gaps!









Notice the headers and the missing GTO plastic engine covers, obviously indicating that this thing was tinkered with...









And a side profile:









And on top of that, the e-brake wouldn't hold itself up (it wouldn't "click" as you pulled it up), it felt as if it had a short-throw shifter installed, I counted at least a half dozen dents on the body, and the battery in it was dead; the salesperson had to jump it for me to start it. The engine sounded healthy, but we only ran it for a few seconds considering that it was in the showroom. Before I started the engine, the screen on the gauge cluster was showing errors in the ABS system, airbags, and fuel gauge. Although they went away after the engine started. I just thought that was a little strange.

Gotta keep looking!


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## srs7324 (Jul 8, 2010)

I would keep looking.
I searched for months before I purchased my 2005 GTO.
It had 9 of the 10 things I wanted.
Most important it was at the right price with no modifications and all the known GTO issues had already been fixed by the previous owners.
I did run across a number of GTO's in the same shape as this one and kept on looking.
Good Luck.


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## musclecar70sfan (Feb 18, 2011)

srs7324 said:


> I would keep looking.
> I searched for months before I purchased my 2005 GTO.
> It had 9 of the 10 things I wanted.
> Most important it was at the right price with no modifications and all the known GTO issues had already been fixed by the previous owners.
> ...


Patience is a virtue when used car shopping, I know that for sure lol. And "know GTO issues"? Got anymore info?


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## d50h (May 31, 2009)

chrimps in the exhaust is normal, they all have it (due to shipping on a boat tied down), paint chips in the plastic door handles in normal too. Does it have dual exit exhaust? that is an 05-06 model exhaust. You can see the red (pedders) sub frame connector.


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## musclecar70sfan (Feb 18, 2011)

d50h said:


> chrimps in the exhaust is normal, they all have it (due to shipping on a boat tied down), paint chips in the plastic door handles in normal too. Does it have dual exit exhaust? that is an 05-06 model exhaust. You can see the red (pedders) sub frame connector.


Yeah it's got dual exit exhaust. Although I thought that it was optional on the 04's and standard on 05-06's? And I wonder why the previous owners would bother with the long-tube headers if the cat-back is factory.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

In the pic it looks to have drag bags in the rear springs.
The stock cat back is decent flowing. The rear mufflers
are a little restrictive. Long tubes are a plus with any
cat back, but need to be tuned.

Larry


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## d50h (May 31, 2009)

proly parted out (sold) the aftermarket cat back and put stock back on to sale/trade in... dual exit was not an option for 04


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## LS1 John (Dec 25, 2010)

I'm 17 and I was in the same boat you are in right now a few months ago. I bought an 04 6 speed silver with black leather and 70,000 miles. I picked it up for 13,000, which wasnt a bad price considering its in near perfect condition. I however, do not even attempt to use it as a daily driver in the snow. If you have a thirst that only eight cylinders can quench I would reccomend looking at a Grand Prix GXP, 5.3 V8, heated leather (which no GTO came with, regardless of year) 4 doors. One of the big pro's in my opinion is that they look kind of average when you"re driving down the road so you don"t stick out when you fly by a cop keeping up with everyone else on the highway. But when you walk up to it in the parking lot you see the massive red calipers behind the chrome wheels, you see the special badging and all the features inside that make daily driving fun. Just my .02


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## musclecar70sfan (Feb 18, 2011)

LS1 John said:


> I'm 17 and I was in the same boat you are in right now a few months ago. I bought an 04 6 speed silver with black leather and 70,000 miles. I picked it up for 13,000, which wasnt a bad price considering its in near perfect condition. I however, do not even attempt to use it as a daily driver in the snow. If you have a thirst that only eight cylinders can quench I would reccomend looking at a Grand Prix GXP, 5.3 V8, heated leather (which no GTO came with, regardless of year) 4 doors. One of the big pro's in my opinion is that they look kind of average when you"re driving down the road so you don"t stick out when you fly by a cop keeping up with everyone else on the highway. But when you walk up to it in the parking lot you see the massive red calipers behind the chrome wheels, you see the special badging and all the features inside that make daily driving fun. Just my .02


Yeah I've considered that car but it's FWD. I can't imagine how that kind of setup would behave with a big V8... I'm guessing it's torque steer delight.  But you're 17 and own a goat? Good for you dude! Just don't live up to the young dump teenager stereotype with that car ok? haha :cheers I was 17 when I bought my 91 Trans Am convertible. 

However I'm also considering the Pontiac G8 as well. I know they're RWD too but I'm sure they're OK in the snow considering that they're probably heavier than a GTO (I'll have to look up the exact specs).


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

Today is one of those days that having a GTO as a DD means I'm probably staying home...

But we got 10 inches, so unless I had a 4X4 I'd be in the same boat.


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## Zdeuce4 (Dec 3, 2010)

i dd my gto, its not too bad, but i can afford the gas and all that stuff, but man this car can get pricey with mods/maintenance etc..


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## poof1887 (Sep 21, 2010)

I DD my 6 speed and it's fine in the winter. Got some Goodyear eagle GTs on it (blizzaks are preferred tho) and she does just fine. Only problem I have is getting out of parking spots cuz she doesn't have posi so she only spins one tire. But if u live in a place where u get a lot of snow accumulation 8+ inches regularly I'd say stay away, clearance will b an issue and u'll get stuck


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

It is not all bad that some Mods for these modern GTO's have been made to the cars for sale. Some common Mods are CIA, GMM Rip Shift, Pedders suspension & Long Tube Headers (with/or without additional exhaust mods), ..... which are all very reasonable and in most instances can improve on the stock configuration of the GTO.

Here are some general issues that have been discussed more than once on this forum and are some common mods for the GTO that the car salesman probably doesn't know anything about;
THESE ARE VERY GOOD MODS
**GMM RIP SHIFT .. bad shifter in the M6 ... 2nd to 3rd is impossible with stock shifter 
**Pedders bushings or full suspension mod ..stock has mushy suspension and possibly some strut rubbing on the stock 17" wheel
**Drag bags
**ALREADY FIXED Seat Stitching which usually pulls apart on top of rear seats
**Daytime driving light delete
** Peeling paint from door handles fixed

THESE ARE MODS IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO GET MORE PERFORMANCE BUT THESE CAN GET EXPENSIVE & more COMPLICATED when looking for a used car. This is also where the car salesman really has no clue what he is talking about! 
**The advantages of engine mods for increased HP & TQ ... like headers,muffler delete, using x crossover from stock crossover resonator, when should you get a Pro tune or do you need one.
**Turbo charging or Blower
**Modding internals like cam, injector size, rods, springs, larger intake size

The items you mentioned and took pictures of on the last car you looked at were very good. As you continue to look, the unique features only in the 04 and most noticeable are Single Side Exhaust and NO Hood Scoops & the only year they made a Purple GTO. :cheers


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## LS1 John (Dec 25, 2010)

musclecar70sfan said:


> Yeah I've considered that car but it's FWD. I can't imagine how that kind of setup would behave with a big V8... I'm guessing it's torque steer delight.  But you're 17 and own a goat? Good for you dude! Just don't live up to the young dump teenager stereotype with that car ok? haha :cheers I was 17 when I bought my 91 Trans Am convertible.
> 
> However I'm also considering the Pontiac G8 as well. I know they're RWD too but I'm sure they're OK in the snow considering that they're probably heavier than a GTO (I'll have to look up the exact specs).


I work two jobs, for a total of seven days a week. I have a motorcycle too! However this is not my first nice car, I had a couple nice Eclipses before this. Oh and btw, we have an 02 40th anniversary edition GTP, and believe me it definitely is not a slacker. Do yourself a favor and drive one for the hell of it, and I don't think a G8 would be as fun without a V8. Drive them both and see how you feel, that is what matters at the end of the day.


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## Weisberg16 (Jan 5, 2011)

The reason all of those error codes came on because the battery was dead. No other reason.


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