# Underside prep



## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

As I guess I am a glutton for punishment, I am beginning the process of prepping the underside of my car. It is off the frame and I am space-limited. I do not have access to a rotisserie. Many years ago, the underside may have been media blasted. The reason I say that is there was no undercoating on the bottom. So, it may have been blasted or maybe it was never undercoated. Anyway, then they stopped the restoration and painted everything they could reach as a rust preventative and the car sat in a barn. So, there is a combination of rust, grease/oil, paint, etc. My eventual plan is to coat the underside in bedliner. I suppose that I could paint, but I like the protection offered and the look of the bedliner on cars that I have seen done that way. If I were building a show car, I probably would not use bedliner. But it isn't, I want this to be a driver. So, I will either hit everything with a wire wheel on a grinder and/or try to get it sanded, which I believe most bedliners need anyway. For those of you that have done similar work without a rotisserie, have you found any easier ways or tips that might help?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Just grunt it out. I did mine in about 2-3 weeks with 50 grit sandpaper and a palm sander. The car was originally undercoated by the dealer. 90% of the undercoating was still in place and rock hard. I just sanded the dirt and grease off. Unfortunately I did all this after I put the frame back on. (long story, don't ask) 
I recoated the areas that needed it and then after masking the frame and suspension/axles off, painted the entire bottom side with Satin Black. 

All this with the car up on jack stands only.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

O52 said:


> Just grunt it out. I did mine in about 2-3 weeks with 50 grit sandpaper and a palm sander.


Just a standard electric 5 inch orbital sander?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I use these at work and the car, they work good with different abrasivenesses available. Think they would work better on uneven surfaces and crevices and seams than a flat orbital sander plus the paper will clog up...just my buck 3.80's worth.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Drewm said:


> As I guess I am a glutton for punishment, I am beginning the process of prepping the underside of my car. It is off the frame and I am space-limited. I do not have access to a rotisserie. Many years ago, the underside may have been media blasted. The reason I say that is there was no undercoating on the bottom. So, it may have been blasted or maybe it was never undercoated. Anyway, then they stopped the restoration and painted everything they could reach as a rust preventative and the car sat in a barn. So, there is a combination of rust, grease/oil, paint, etc. My eventual plan is to coat the underside in bedliner. I suppose that I could paint, but I like the protection offered and the look of the bedliner on cars that I have seen done that way. If I were building a show car, I probably would not use bedliner. But it isn't, I want this to be a driver. So, I will either hit everything with a wire wheel on a grinder and/or try to get it sanded, which I believe most bedliners need anyway. For those of you that have done similar work without a rotisserie, have you found any easier ways or tips that might help?
> 
> View attachment 155736
> 
> ...


I hired a professional sandblast company. They charged me $150 and took the entire underside down to bare metal in about 2 and 1/2 hours. Then I sprayed it with Rust-Oleum mixed with hardener


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Drewm said:


> Just a standard electric 5 inch orbital sander?


Yeah, sucker for punishment I guess. I also used a few attachments to get into the crevices, but I wasn't attempting to get to bare metal, the floor pans are like new. Something to be said for hot, (100+*), and dry, (less than 15% humidity), summers it spent 50 years in. Just removing the dirt and grease. After it was sanded, I scrubbed it all down with the green stuff then painted. Nothing fancy, not a show car.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I hired a professional sandblast company. They charged me $150 and took the entire underside down to bare metal in about 2 and 1/2 hours. Then I sprayed it with Rust-Oleum mixed with hardener


This would be ideal, but in an attached garage I think the mess would be too much to handle.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Drewm said:


> I think the mess would be too much to handle


As you walk out to the garage with your Tyvek suit and wire brush, you will contemplate it deeply.

A media blaster will take the entire thing to bare metal in a very short time, and then all you need to do is sweep up the walnut shells.

OR... most blasters allow you to bring it to them, or can you rent a tent to put it in?

That being said, yes, it's messy


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

@armyadarkness 
Jimmy, you got off cheap....you must know someone. The best quote I got last year was over $300. Of course, I ended up doing it myself and looking like a Hiroshima victim for weeks until it was finished
.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Joes1966GTO said:


> @armyadarkness
> Jimmy, you got off cheap....you must know someone. The best quote I got last year was over $300. Of course, I ended up doing it myself and looking like a Hiroshima victim for weeks until it was finished
> .


Yeah, I did get it done cheap, but honestly, you cant get it as good as a pro, and you save yourself all of that Hell, so even at $500, it was worth it for my GTO! 

It's the number one area you want right!


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

100% agreed.


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## Miko66 (Jan 6, 2022)

Drewm said:


> As I guess I am a glutton for punishment, I am beginning the process of prepping the underside of my car. It is off the frame and I am space-limited. I do not have access to a rotisserie. Many years ago, the underside may have been media blasted. The reason I say that is there was no undercoating on the bottom. So, it may have been blasted or maybe it was never undercoated. Anyway, then they stopped the restoration and painted everything they could reach as a rust preventative and the car sat in a barn. So, there is a combination of rust, grease/oil, paint, etc. My eventual plan is to coat the underside in bedliner. I suppose that I could paint, but I like the protection offered and the look of the bedliner on cars that I have seen done that way. If I were building a show car, I probably would not use bedliner. But it isn't, I want this to be a driver. So, I will either hit everything with a wire wheel on a grinder and/or try to get it sanded, which I believe most bedliners need anyway. For those of you that have done similar work without a rotisserie, have you found any easier ways or tips that might help?
> 
> View attachment 155736
> 
> ...


You can use Por15. I did the topside and bottom using a paint brush because I didn't want the over spray. The color dulls a bit from the shiny black. When it dries, it's really hard and it takes some work to damage. Amazon had the best price for the gallon. Good luck.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Here' my reasoning for the redoing methods for my 67's under belly. 

Sandblasting is my number one favorite process for restoring metal parts, but you have to ask yourself...

1.) Can you get to ALL the hidden spots of an under belly? No you can't. Areas hidden by the bracings won't be gotten to with the blasting media. This leaves some level of age untouched. If you can't get it all...will the untouched areas rot out faster than the perfectly cleaned up and sealed areas? Most likely, so why go to the extreme effort?

2.) Will the car see winter roads with salt after restoration, or even rainy drives? In my case, No. If the car previously lived it's life under normal use and the floors lasted well...how far do you need to go to make them last a lot longer?

3.) What's the current condition of the underbelly and how long did it get to come to that level of decay? Your underbelly's condition looks really, really, good for an old car. Mine's not so bad and certainly not field-found-with-broken-out-glass-sitting-in-the-dirt...leaving the floors like swiss cheese. 

I will use all the methods and tools mentioned by others in your thread. The areas that still have paint coverage, will get sanded and prepped for primer. The surface rusted areas that can be wire wheeled and produce decent exposed bare metal will be lightly sanded and primed. The rust pits that exist will be sand blasted with a small blast gun and primed. The through rot will be cut out and replaced with fresh steel rather that be repop panels or pieces of my old furnace, lol, then primed. Areas that can't be reached with the power tools will get the sand blaster treatment as well. The undercoating in my wheel wells will be scraped with an oscillating tool, wire wheeled and primed. Then the seams sealed and the whole thing covered in a coat of sprayed flat Rustoulem, then a coat or two of hand brushed semi-gloss Rustoleum.

All of this effort on my part is to save the cost of professional blasting services/equipment or the extinct car dip process along with transporting the car. And for what, my underbelly will last a long, long time even if it sees plenty of rainy drives. It's a lot of work, but it's cheap work and my wages are in the savings for other trick parts.

Once again, media blasting it the best, but budget savings, more free time than money, & the reality that blasting is a bit excessive for my level of particularity all leads me to this process. I definitely do not look forward to it, but the results will be worth it in the end.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the replies. Gives me much to think about.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

For the places you can't get to with abrasives blow them clean as possible and use something like this, I used it on the inside of my hood and trunk. I always had rust falling out of the holes of my trunk so I put it on horses, taped off the holes then moved from hole to hole taping up the last one and then tipping it up and around so it would run into all the corners and such. It comes in black which is what I used, but fair warning it is like water so it's very messy but being thin it gets into every crack encapsulating the rust....worked good.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> For the places you can't get to with abrasives blow them clean as possible and use something like this


Thats what I used on the inside of my frame, also planning on using that inside the body bracing and in the rockers. I've used it before on jeep frame (notorious for rusting) with good results.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> For the places you can't get to with abrasives blow them clean as possible and use something like this, I used it on the inside of my hood and trunk. I always had rust falling out of the holes of my trunk so I put it on horses, taped off the holes then moved from hole to hole taping up the last one and then tipping it up and around so it would run into all the corners and such. It comes in black which is what I used, but fair warning it is like water so it's very messy but being thin it gets into every crack encapsulating the rust....worked good.
> View attachment 155769


Oooo a new helpful emoji, nice 👍


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Por 15, rust converter paint, frame wax, all good stuff. MOST of these cars were NOT undercoated. It was a dealer option or done later. These cars were built to last 8-10 years and then be replaced. 
Whatever you do, do not coat anything you care about with bedliner. It's permanent, and can crack and trap moisture, causing more rust to happen. I personally would never buy a car that had bedliner sprayed anywhere on it. Too easy to hide bad stuff with it. Just the normal rust converting paint is fine. Even if you sandblasted it and left it bare, the floor would last another 50-100 years, the way we drive these cars now.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Por 15, rust converter paint, frame wax, all good stuff. MOST of these cars were NOT undercoated. It was a dealer option or done later. These cars were built to last 8-10 years and then be replaced.
> Whatever you do, do not coat anything you care about with bedliner. It's permanent, and can crack and trap moisture, causing more rust to happen. I personally would never buy a car that had bedliner sprayed anywhere on it. Too easy to hide bad stuff with it. Just the normal rust converting paint is fine. Even if you sandblasted it and left it bare, the floor would last another 50-100 years, the way we drive these cars now.


I thought about POR 15 too. Thats what I used when I painted my rear diff, and while I thought it went on a little too thick on the rear, it probably would have a good thickness for the underside of the car.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I used POR 15 on my first 67 GTO, back in the mid 90's when it first came out... but after 35 years of welding, Ive never had good old Rustoleum let me down, so no I mix Rustoleum with hardenr and thin it with acetone, then spray it through a Harbor Fright pressure pot.

It's cheap, easy, easy to remove/ repair, and it stands up to everything.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

$50... holds two quarts and sprays at ANY angle.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Honestly the main reason I was thinking about using bedliner, other than the obvious protection qualities, is that it was thick and textured enough to cover any welds or patches. I had some patches in the trunk and also up in the passenger area, and I was not planning on grinding or really finishing the backside of the welds, other than knocking down anything obnoxious. I doubt that most people would even know or look under there, but my OCD is giving me paralysis by analysis.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

armyadarkness said:


> I hired a professional sandblast company. They charged me $150 and took the entire underside down to bare metal in about 2 and 1/2 hours. Then I sprayed it with Rust-Oleum mixed with hardener


I'm betting that was the best $150 you ever spent. 👍


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Joes1966GTO said:


> @armyadarkness
> Jimmy, you got off cheap....you must know someone. The best quote I got last year was over $300. Of course, I ended up doing it myself and looking like a Hiroshima victim for weeks until it was finished


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

@Jetzster @armyadarkness - Yeah, that's pretty much what I looked like!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

geeteeohguy said:


> Por 15, rust converter paint, frame wax, all good stuff. MOST of these cars were NOT undercoated. It was a dealer option or done later. These cars were built to last 8-10 years and then be replaced.
> Whatever you do, do not coat anything you care about with bedliner. It's permanent, and can crack and trap moisture, causing more rust to happen. I personally would never buy a car that had bedliner sprayed anywhere on it. Too easy to hide bad stuff with it. Just the normal rust converting paint is fine. Even if you sandblasted it and left it bare, the floor would last another 50-100 years, the way we drive these cars now.


Agree totally, although I did use Flex Seal spray after priming and painting the trunk floor with a rust inhibitor rattle can then used a stone textured for the final coat, and carpet glued down. With the right prep and application inside and out these advanced products we have available now I think you could leave the car in a field or drive it every winter and your grandkids wouldn't have to worry about replacing the floors, like mentioned no one drives these cars in the winter or hardly ever in the rain. I've washed my car once with water in 5.5 years after I buffed out the paint and got caught in one rain storm thanks to my wife's unscheduled stop at Kohls, she couldn't understand and said " it's just water" ya running into crevices I couldn't get to with paint !


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Remember Rust Jones? my dad had a new '76 Ford Econoline rust out three times after having that applied...or did they, maybe they just drilled the holes in the doors like the stories I've heard about that 😬


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> I'm betting that was the best $150 you ever spent. 👍


As my bff always says, "cheap at twice the price". However, I think it was cheap at five times the price. For a frame-on mini resto, I could not have achieved this degree of thoroughness.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

55 Years of undercoating and crud... I told the kid, you're getting a big tip, a steak, and a case of beer. He then said, If it don't come off, it aint coming off.. and I agreed.

When done, I loaded my paint gun with acetone and sprayed it all off a few times, then painted it


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

So many pictures 🤣


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink.

Pictures, pictures everywhere, but not a PCV.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

i used a needle scaler it removed old undercoating pretty well. very loud though. then prep and paint with rustoleum its easy to apply and cheap. but does not hide any flaws. you could seam seal the welds to make it look better.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

ponchonlefty said:


> i used a needle scaler it removed old undercoating pretty well. very loud though. then prep and paint with rustoleum its easy to apply and cheap. but does not hide any flaws. you could seam seal the welds to make it look better.


I used a needle scaler on the leftover undercoating in my wheel wells. It worked incredibly well. Still will have to prep the surface for paint, but it came off in chunks and was way less mess.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

When I started my TA resto 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was doing. So the shell was up on jack stands and I was underneath it with parts cleaner and a paint scraper. After removing all the old undercoating, I used everything in my then limited arsenal to sand off the rust. It was brutal. Fortunately, my GTO was so rusty it needed a full floor and trunk pan. No undercoating to deal with. The floor supports weren't in bad shape (only one needed replacing) so it wasn't too hard to prep them. If I had to do the TA now, I'd absolutely have someone else do it. There's no way I could do it today like I did then.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

CDub67 said:


> When I started my TA resto 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was doing. So the shell was up on jack stands and I was underneath it with parts cleaner and a paint scraper. After removing all the old undercoating, I used everything in my then limited arsenal to sand off the rust. It was brutal. Fortunately, my GTO was so rusty it needed a full floor and trunk pan. No undercoating to deal with. The floor supports weren't in bad shape (only one needed replacing) so it wasn't too hard to prep them. If I had to do the TA now, I'd absolutely have someone else do it. There's no way I could do it today like I did then.


My '65 GTO is a car that's been in CA since 1966, so no rust and no undercoat. My '67 came to CA in 1983, with some rust in the trunk and lower quarters. The entire car was undercoated when new and I'm convinced that's why the floors are still intact. The trunk has been patched, and I had the lower quarters replaced 35 years ago when the car was painted the first time by me. The old, ugly undercoating is STILL on the car, and I've owned and driven it these past 39 years. When I eventually have the new trunk pan installed, I think I'll leave the rest of the underside for the next owner of the car to deal with. I'm good with it. It keeps heat and noise out of the car, ugly as it is. And waaaaaay too much work for me to remove, unless the car actually gets restored someday!


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Army, can you share your Rustoleum recipe? It sounds like the way to go when I reach that point in my build.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Well, once again, a subject based on personal preferences and opinions, and some opinions are still stuck in the 1980's. I do most all of my own painting/bodywork and have the schooling & background experience to back up what I do. Things certainly change over the years and I am open to change and do a lot of researching on the internet to update myself and learn the best techniques and products to be used on my current vehicles. I then decide which path to take and hope for the best. 

First, whether it be paint, undercoating, rubberized undercoating, or bed liner spray, the most important aspect to get ANY of these choices to work best is the prep work. Loose old undercoating, rust, grease, oil, dirt, peeling paint ALL need to be removed, otherwise the best of any material will not adhere to the floor, frame, chassis, or metal.

The "old" type undercoating was thick and tarry. It was an asphalt-based undercoating and some undercoats from the '70s contained asbestos. What happens to tar when it begins to harden and dry out? It cracks.

On my '68 Lemans, I sandblasted the bottom of the passenger floor/rocker boxes of the main body (trunk is rotted out) to remove the loose undercoating, paint, rust, dirt, grease, and anything else that would come off. I did not try and make it perfectly clean going right down to the bare metal surface - did this on my back under a jacked up car body. I blasted the floors to simply remove "loose' stuff. Any factory undercoating that did not blast off, was left. Figured if it wasn't going to blast off easily, it was still good and good enough to leave in place. Looked just like army's '67 flooring.

After blasting, I like POR-15. I brushed the POR-15 on which got all over me and my clothes lying on my back - so don't use good clothes and use long sleeves, gloves, and eye protection. Then I let it dry out several weeks and coated the POR-15 with Rustoleum black. 

On my brother's '48 International, I use Dupli-Color spray bomb bed liner. It has a slight texture, and when it dries, is very hard. I use this stuff anyplace that will be hidden, not painted, needs protection (under fenders/hood), and inside flooring. Also using it on the factory stamped exterior metal trim on the box body that outline the flat panels which will get painted so it will add a contrasting outline to the painted panels. I also apply Rustoleum paint over it for additional protection.

So let's look at spray-on bed liner choices:

Hmmmm. Ford offers this right from the factory. How bad can it be?

A spray-in bed liner can create a watertight and air seal. It can serve to protect from UV rays, moisture, dirt, heat and those elements that are likely to damage the metal surface. Although this bed liner is known to have a watertight seal, you should know that *the structure of the car itself isn’t waterproof.*

Regardless of how much a bed liner protects the car, it doesn’t offer complete protection against all the elements. *Elements such as water and dirt can still successfully find their way underneath the spray-in bed liner, and this can lead to damage - *because your car's structure is not waterproof nor air tight. 

A spray-in bed liner of good quality will not peel, bubble or crack. If your bed liner sustains a couple of damages, you don’t have any reason to worry because spray-in bed liners can be repaired in a very short period of time with proper prep and re-sprayed.

Here are a few of the best reasons to consider bed liner used for undercoating your chassis.

-Your undercarriage is protected from moisture and rust.
-It provides protection from snow and salt which destroy the underneath of vehicles.
-Protects from rock damage.
-Grease, dirt and other contaminants won’t stick to the bed liner.
-It looks nice.
-The chassis will be easy to clean.









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How about a quality rubberized undercoating, again, the factory uses this on some rocker panels and lower sections of their cars and dealerships can offer it as an addtional service JUST LIKE the old tar based undercoating (like Ziebart which my dad had done on his new '73 Plymouth which made it survive the New England winter road salt applications):

Most dealerships offer an additional undercoating as part of a "winter package" option, which typically consists of a "rubberized" media being sprayed across the vehicle's undercarriage. Once cured, this undercoating has the ability to repel rust and oxidation, rock chips, scratches, and even lower road noise levels.

Rustoleum can be used, but keep in mind that it is not the "old" Rustoleum it used to be. It has been EPA reformulated. I am also using the Rustoleum primer in white, because I cannot find the typical "oxide" color anywhere in my area, on my brother's truck. I thin it down with acetone for spray gun use. No set mix formula, I just add the acetone until it "looks" good to me - not too thick, not too thin. Spray guns also use different "caps" that screw onto the gun in which the paint and air get mixed together to create your spray. These caps have different sized holes for paint and air depending on what is being sprayed. I spray primer a little on the heavy side and would spray top coats with a finer spray. Air pressures also come into play.

Here is what I pulled off the internet using Rustoleum canned paint for spray gun application. I use around 50PSI air pressure and a good water filter attached right to the base/handle of my spray gun as any moisture will get into the paint. Not so much a worry underneath the car as you won't see it. These are not my words, but pulled off the internet forums:

"Thinned RUSTOLEUM 15% with Acetone and added enamel hardener as well. Had to shoot it around 30psi with a siphon feed gun...tried different pressures...but to 30 worked best for me. Paint was dry to the touch in aprox. 1 hour."

"Use a gun and spray it right. If you thin it 4 to 1 with acetone or naphtha it sprays easy. You can borrow a small compressor and cheap guns are everywhere these days."

"I add about a 3/4 cap full of the Valspar hardener right into the cup of the gun. Mix it real good with a stick and let it rip."

"I`m a big fan of Valspar brand paint. I buy it at Tractor Supply for $29 gallon. I always use the hardener ( $10 ). Everything I`ve sprayed turned out real nice. I use a "no-name" enamel reducer from local automotive paint supply ( $15 gallon ). I mix 4 :1 and add an ounce or 2 of hardener to each batch."

I also use the Eastwood products to spray inside my frame rails where they are hidden and can't be gotten at with typical painting. Has a nice long flexible extension tube and multi-port spray nozzle that get the job done.

So there are many ways to skin a cat, and it boils down to good prep work first, then whatever protection choice you feel will work best for your application. If you plan to sell the car in the future, take a lot of photos of the prep work. Paint is preferred over any heavy type undercoating as the first thing people think is that you are hiding something.

I will also *WARN* you not to use any tar like undercoating *IF *you have any intentions of doing future welding. Many undercoating are highly flammable. We still use an oil based spray-on undercoating from a cannister/spray gun on the underside of our wood trailer floors. Years ago, our boss when he first started went and undercoated a trailer floor and later had to do more welding on it. The trailer floor caught fire with the fresh undercoating on it and they had to quickly pull the trailer out of the bay so as not to burn down the shop. The fire company was able to put out the fire before it did major damages. Some of the flooring had to be replaced and the old burned undercoating was scraped off with a putty knife by my boss. He never did that again and learned undercoating is the last step of the process.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

PontiacJim said:


> Well, once again, a subject based on personal preferences and opinions, and some opinions are still stuck in the 1980's. I do most all of my own painting/bodywork and have the schooling & background experience to back up what I do. Things certainly change over the years and I am open to change and do a lot of researching on the internet to update myself and learn the best techniques and products to be used on my current vehicles. I then decide which path to take and hope for the best.
> 
> First, whether it be paint, undercoating, rubberized undercoating, or bed liner spray, the most important aspect to get ANY of these choices to work best is the prep work. Loose old undercoating, rust, grease, oil, dirt, peeling paint ALL need to be removed, otherwise the best of any material will not adhere to the floor, frame, chassis, or metal.
> 
> ...


very well said. prep is everything in applying coatings of any kind.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree with Jim. I'll go further and say I don'[t even like stripping the original paint and primer off of a car prior to repainting...if it's intact. I have yet to see rust bubbles or paint lift issues on cars I've owned that still wear their factory applied, decades old primer. I HAVE had rust issues and surface issue appear ten years after a strip and re-paint on a very high dollar paint job. The foundation of ANYTHING is the most important part, and IMO, be it primer or undercoat or paint that is still sealed and functional after 5 or 6 decades works for me. Biggest mistake (saw it last night on a car youtube) is people stripping a car to bare, and then running their bare hands over the bare steel to feel for dings and dents. They will be having rust issues down the line for sure, in the shape of finger marks.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

geeteeohguy said:


> I agree with Jim. I'll go further and say I don'[t even like stripping the original paint and primer off of a car prior to repainting...if it's intact. I have yet to see rust bubbles or paint lift issues on cars I've owned that still wear their factory applied, decades old primer. I HAVE had rust issues and surface issue appear ten years after a strip and re-paint on a very high dollar paint job. The foundation of ANYTHING is the most important part, and IMO, be it primer or undercoat or paint that is still sealed and functional after 5 or 6 decades works for me. Biggest mistake (saw it last night on a car youtube) is people stripping a car to bare, and then running their bare hands over the bare steel to feel for dings and dents. They will be having rust issues down the line for sure, in the shape of finger marks.


Correct, hands have oils. If you feel areas for dents or imperfections on bare steel as a last check just before priming with your hands as I do, you want to use something like Prep-Sol or even acetone to wipe down the areas you touch (and you should be wiping the metal work anyway prior to priming/painting), let the area dry thoroughly, and then use a Tack-Cloth as your final wipe to catch any minute dust particles before spray painting your primer or paint. Lacquer thinner can leave a residue (so I read) and affect paint adhesion if you do not wipe it dry - although I do use it and wipe it dry and have not had any issues. Isn't lacquer thinner used in lacquer primer? Hmmmm. I guess lacquer primer has been leaving a residue on bare metal that I have painted in the past - who knew?


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

PontiacJim said:


> Correct, hands have oils. If you feel areas for dents or imperfections on bare steel as a last check just before priming with your hands as I do, you want to use something like Prep-Sol or even acetone to wipe down the areas you touch (and you should be wiping the metal work anyway prior to priming/painting), let the area dry thoroughly, and then use a Tack-Cloth as your final wipe to catch any minute dust particles before spray painting your primer or paint. Lacquer thinner can leave a residue (so I read) and affect paint adhesion if you do not wipe it dry - although I do use it and wipe it dry and have not had any issues. Isn't lacquer thinner used in lacquer primer? Hmmmm. I guess lacquer primer has been leaving a residue on bare metal that I have painted in the past - who knew?


paint formulas change so technique has to change with it. i wipe the body down with acetone or lacquer thinner. i've painted many cars trucks. in real world conditions. the paint is holding up well. these are all out in the weather not garaged. im no professional painter. i figure it matters what climate that there exposed to. i totally agree with ya.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Had a little time today to work on the car, started with a twisted wire wheel on an angle grinder. Spend about 30 minutes just on the back of the trunk area.










The wire wheel seems aggressive enough that it will give enough bite to whatever paint/topcoat I decide to use. I am not afraid of the hard work involved and dont mind spending the hours needed to do this, I just want to make sure that the work is not in vain. 

If I do not do the bed liner, I may use Eastwoods 2k primer and chassis black topcoat. That should be durable and chemical resistant.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

geeteeohguy said:


> I agree with Jim. I'll go further and say I don'[t even like stripping the original paint and primer off of a car prior to repainting...if it's intact. I have yet to see rust bubbles or paint lift issues on cars I've owned that still wear their factory applied, decades old primer. I HAVE had rust issues and surface issue appear ten years after a strip and re-paint on a very high dollar paint job. The foundation of ANYTHING is the most important part, and IMO, be it primer or undercoat or paint that is still sealed and functional after 5 or 6 decades works for me. Biggest mistake (saw it last night on a car youtube) is people stripping a car to bare, and then running their bare hands over the bare steel to feel for dings and dents. They will be having rust issues down the line for sure, in the shape of finger marks.


Greasy mitts.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Drewm said:


> Had a little time today to work on the car, started with a twisted wire wheel on an angle grinder. Spend about 30 minutes just on the back of the trunk area.
> 
> View attachment 155901
> 
> ...


watch out for those wires flying. wear protection. looks like you got it handled.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

CDub67 said:


> Army, can you share your Rustoleum recipe? It sounds like the way to go when I reach that point in my build.


Sure. I have used this recipe for about 20 years now, on trailers, car parts, and engines, even high-heat stuff. 

The ratio is 8 parts paint to 1 part hardner. So to make a quart, mix in 4 ounces. Then thin with acetone to fit your pressure and temp needs.

Personally, I spray thick, so I start out with just a little acetone and then I add it until it sprays consistent. But on bigger jobs where I need faster coverage, I add more thinner at the start. The thinner is a flexible consideration, I've often gotten 3/4 of the way through a job and found my mix to be too thick, and just added more acetone right to the gun reservoir, stirred, and continued.

We have equipment at our campground, which I painted 25 years ago, and sits outdoors on the shore, all year long. Still looks new, and has even outperformed powder coat, which often flakes off.

On severely rusted stuff, I use the same method, but with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer, first.

As mentioned, when spraying engines or calipers, I use the same ratios and KBS "Motor Coater" paint.

I also know there are many Por 15 fans on this site, and it's also a great product. Unfortunately, it has much stricter application rules, time demands, and color restrictions, which rarely work for my busy production needs, and since Ive never had Rustoleum fail, I don't try to reinvent the wheel.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As Jim mentioned, the Tractor Supply implement paint work terrific!


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> As Jim mentioned, the Tractor Supply implement paint work terrific!


Excellent. Thanks!


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Had a few hours on Sunday and some time tonight to have some fun with the wire wheel. I did expose some rust holes that will need attention. Rear footwell area, and also drivers side inner rocker. Ive already patched the passenger footwell months ago, but I didn't see the drivers side rust damage until I wire wheeled the area. 

This is a dirty job, made worse with the 90+ degree heat and humidity. Will make it all the sweeter when it is done.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Looks great, bro! Yeah, I had to work on mine for 15 minutes yesterday and I was soaked about 3 minutes into it. This weather is no good for working on cars.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I'm envious! You are a month ahead of me as I will be tackling that job very soon. Looks real good!


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

looks great. pretty solid. i hope you really are having fun.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

Keep up the good work @Drewm .......looking good!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Had a few hours on Sunday and some time tonight to have some fun with the wire wheel. I did expose some rust holes that will need attention. Rear footwell area, and also drivers side inner rocker. Ive already patched the passenger footwell months ago, but I didn't see the drivers side rust damage until I wire wheeled the area.
> 
> This is a dirty job, made worse with the 90+ degree heat and humidity. Will make it all the sweeter when it is done.
> 
> ...


My arms are tired just looking at these pictures!


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Here is the front inner rocker. This is an area where multiple body panels come together and seems to be a common rust area. My options are 1) cut the inner panel, exposing the cancer and repair as needed, or 2) weld up the holes and pretend I didnt see it. I have a little endoscope camera and fished it through the rockers, and this front area is the only problem area. Also, as you can see, the drivers side floor pan was replaced many years ago by someone else. The repair looks solid enough, although I would have butt welded the panel, it seems like it will be fine. 




















I think I can cut here and pull my cut panel off and get to the cancer that way....










One of the issues is that this is an awkward spot to reach. Getting an angle grinder in that spot is tough. I used a combination of an angle grinder and die grinder with a carbide bit to cut those holes. One they were cut, I realized that the damage was a little worse than I thought. 

Here you can see the metal sandwich.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I might flood the area with acetone and then use an inaccessible-area spray tip to get some Rustoleum inside, then weld patches on the outside.

Of course, thats without seeing it... but the rest of the metal looks solid in these pictures.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I might flood the area with acetone and then use an inaccessible-area spray tip to get some Rustoleum inside, then weld patches on the outside.
> 
> Of course, thats without seeing it... but the rest of the metal looks solid in these pictures.


I went back and reread, and I did not do a very good job of explaining the rust. You are right that the metal that you see is mostly solid, which is surprising because the metal underneath is completely gone. There are basically 4 pieces of sheetmetal (I think)l that come together in this area, the outer rocker, the door hinge pillar, something else (maybe part of the floor and then the inner rocker. The two middle pieces are gone. I am not entirely sure what I am going to do at this point. With the body off, now is definitely the time to attack this. There is nothing loose and everything looks and feels completely solid. If I did not find the damage there in the first place, I would never have suspected anything. Really its just my OCD making me do it. Maybe Ill have some time this weekend to dig into it.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

So the fun never ends. As much as I wanted to, I couldn't just button these holes up and call it a day. It would bother me every time I looked at it. So, I start cutting. Hoping to just cut the portion of the rocker off that I outlined above. Looks, uh...not good.










If there was good metal up towards the floor that I could weld into, I would have left it alone.. But what is left in there is not good. So I kept cutting. Because of the tight quarters, I had to work the top part of that piece that I cut with an air chisel. Messy.










It probably would have come apart easier, but I am working into some old repairs. The previous owner welded a patch panel on the drivers side floor pan, and tied his spot welds into this area. 

I think that I am going to get a new front floor patch panel and pull this one off and weld a new one in. I have to pull this one to get to the clean metal so I can weld some patch panels in there. 

Here you can see where my air chisel came up through the old patch panel. 



















Hopefully I will be able to see the issue better when this old patch is pulled off.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Drewm said:


> So the fun never ends. As much as I wanted to, I couldn't just button these holes up and call it a day. It would bother me every time I looked at it. So, I start cutting. Hoping to just cut the portion of the rocker off that I outlined above. Looks, uh...not good.
> 
> View attachment 156431
> 
> ...


It sucks to have to do it, but it's really not that bad


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

it looks like you doing the right thing. you will be glad you fixed it.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

Hey @Drewm - you were right to cut into it. Fortunately, because of the location, it doesn't have to be aesthetically perfect, but at least you will always know that you replaced the bad metal and everything is structurally sound. I had to do a similar thing on my lower cowl panel - I knew that no one would ever see it, but it would always bother me, so I took the extra time to cut our all of the bad metal and replace it. No one is ever going to see that work I did, but I'll know, and the same holds true for your repair. Keep up the good work!


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Got the old floor patch off. 










A better look at the rust...










A lot going on in this area. Lots of panels meet here. No wonder it is a common rust area.



















Ill give Ames a call on Monday and hopefully they have the floor patch panel in stock. At least now Ill know its all good and Ill fix it correctly. 

On a more ironic note, my disc brake conversion kit came in from "The Right Stuff", and don't it figure, they sent me "The Wrong Stuff"! I ordered a standard ride height, and they sent a 2" drop kit. Fortunately, I have lots of other stuff to work on.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Cleaned up and cut out the rusty areas. There is some surface rust and pitting inside, but I am not going to cut anything else out. Ill try to weld up the rust holes, although I do not think doing so will serve any purpose other than making me feel better. Hopefully get this side fabbed up and welded back together soon. I am going to do the same thing on the passenger side, although not as bad as this side, its definitely got some rust. The worst part of all this is just the awkward positions and difficulty of working on the ground and twisting into odd positions. Not quite sure how I am going to do the other side yet.










And after a little cleanup


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

Looks a whole lot better, @Drewm - nice job!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looks like the Jane Byrne interchange under construction....Chi town reference 😉


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Fabbed and welded the inner most piece. This is a portion of the inner cowl panel that was completely gone. It does not match the replacement sheet metal in the Ames catalog, but it will serve the purpose here.










I did cheat and get a patch panel for the next piece, which is called the Lower Door Hinge Panel Reinforcement. Tacked it into the original piece and thats as far as I got before I ran out of gas. Hopefully have this welded up and start on the other side soon.










The original metal to the left of the new piece looks wonky, but it will actually get extended over the reinforcement panel a few inches after the floor is back in. Slow going, but I am enjoying the process so far.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yep, I did the same thing. I had my '60 body up on stands I built out of heavy angle instead of wood, but I was in pretty much the same situation as you. I got the underside as clean and as grease/oil/dirt free as I was able to, roughed it all up with (as I remember) coarse scotch-brite pads, then crawled underneath and shot it with epoxy primer followed by Eastwood satin black ceramic 2k - hardened. The car has been together for 11 years at this point and it gets driven. I have a lift now, and all I have to do from time to time is get underneath and clean it.























Bear


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

BearGFR said:


> Yep, I did the same thing. I had my '60 body up on stands I built out of heavy angle instead of wood, but I was in pretty much the same situation as you. I got the underside as clean and as grease/oil/dirt free as I was able to, roughed it all up with (as I remember) coarse scotch-brite pads, then crawled underneath and shot it with epoxy primer followed by Eastwood satin black ceramic 2k - hardened. The car has been together for 11 years at this point and it gets driven. I have a lift now, and all I have to do from time to time is get underneath and clean it.
> Bear


Looks great, Ill be thrilled if mine turns out that nice.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Buttoned this up for now, can't do anymore on this side until I get the other side done.










Now I have to figure out my cuts over here.


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## milad818 (5 mo ago)

Grate 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Ok, started on the passenger side. Lets just cut this little patch off and see what it looks like...it looks...not great.










Yeah, not very solid...










Time to cut the floor. This took a while, as I am trying to save the cut out piece for reuse.










Surgery will be needed.



















Not the best design by GM, but I am sure that they did not think that these cars would be on the road 50+ years later.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Had some garage time this holiday weekend.

Getting rid of the garbage...










Evidentially, it was take your kid to work and teach them how to spot weld day at Pontiac. They overdid it a bit. That was not much fun finding and drilling them out.

Cleaned up...










Get some paint in there...










Fix the lower portion of the inner kick panel.










Now to cut and weld the hinge reinforcement, also got this side from Ames. I am not sure that I would be able to fabricate this piece. Not only does it have some odd bends and angles, it is also 14/16 gauge steel. For 55 bucks, it was worth it.










Took some time to repair some of the floor panel that I cut out. Due to all of the drilling of the spot welds, the flange that goes against the hinge reinforcement needed replaced. The back side of my welds are visible, but I did not think grinding them in this area was necessary. Also the portion of the floor that goes against the front body mount metal needed replaced due to spot weld damage.

Got the floor positioned and a few tacks to hold it. Thats where I quit.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Update, been tough to find chunks of time to work on the car, a lot of family and work obligations have come up lately. Anyway, Got the passenger side buttoned up.










Also got the drivers side welded in. Welding this was extremely awkward and took a long time. The bracing that I have really makes getting into a comfortable position to weld very difficult.










Started working on the inner rocker portion. Fortunately, the piece I cut out of the passenger side was intact enough to use as a template.










Hopefully Ill get the drivers side fabbed up and both sides installed soon. I was hoping to have the bottom painted and done a while ago, but this took a while to do. Anyway, just another bite out of the elephant.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Finished both sides of the inner rockers.



















Started re-working one of the first repairs that I did when I got the car. Not that anyone would see it, but I didn't like looking at my shitty work. I'm not a great welder by any stretch, but I have gotten better over the past year. 










And as I was doing this and pondering life, I wondered why I continued to grind welds that will not be seen when the factory thought this was acceptable and I just had to chuckle.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

@Drewm - It's looking great, Drew. Progress is progress. I laughed, too this weekend about factory welding "quality" when I was cleaning and repainting my Z-bar. I'm no expert welder myself, but this was pretty lame. (I left it alone, though, because the welds were really solid, so I guess that's all that matters.......aesthetics be damned.  )


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Joes1966GTO said:


> @Drewm - It's looking great, Drew. Progress is progress. I laughed, too this weekend about factory welding "quality" when I was cleaning and repainting my Z-bar. I'm no expert welder myself, but this was pretty lame. (I left it alone, though, because the welds were really solid, so I guess that's all that matters.......aesthetics be damned.  )
> View attachment 157919
> View attachment 157920


Looks pretty good with a coat of paint. As the saying goes, "grinding and paint makes me the welder I ain't"


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Finally an update here...

It was time to shit or get off the pot, as the saying goes. Made a trip to Eastwood and picked up some supplies. First I used internal frame coating in the body braces and gas tank braces. Probably not really needed, but it was now or never. Then, cleaned the underside with a painting prep a few times, then put some seam sealer on the seams. (Tried to make it look as factory as possible). I was going to tape lines for that, but It would have been really obvious that it wasnt factory at that point. Then sprayed a coat of rust encapsulator, then a coat of chassis black satin. Ill do probably one more coat of chassis black tomorrow and see how it looks. It isn't perfect, but It'll work. It is a little wet in the pics, it will matte up as it dries.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

I put another coat on this morning before work. I think that will be enough. With basically 3 coats of paint (encapsulator and 2 coats of chassis black) I don't think anything else will be needed.

Now to figure out what to do next. The topcoat says full cure in 12-24 hours, but with the colder weather it might take longer. I am keeping a small heater on in my garage and trying to keep it above 50 degrees. It's about 25 outside now, so I may have to supplement the heat with my torpedo heater.

I have seen some resto's where every brake line, fuel line, motor, etc., is on the frame and then the body goes on. I think I am going to have to put the body back on the frame and worry about running lines afterwards. I just don't have the room in my garage to keep the body off for that long.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

Drewm said:


> I put another coat on this morning before work. I think that will be enough. With basically 3 coats of paint (encapsulator and 2 coats of chassis black) I don't think anything else will be needed.
> 
> Now to figure out what to do next. The topcoat says full cure in 12-24 hours, but with the colder weather it might take longer. I am keeping a small heater on in my garage and trying to keep it above 50 degrees. It's about 25 outside now, so I may have to supplement the heat with my torpedo heater.
> 
> I have seen some resto's where every brake line, fuel line, motor, etc., is on the frame and then the body goes on. I think I am going to have to put the body back on the frame and worry about running lines afterwards. I just don't have the room in my garage to keep the body off for that long.


When I put the body back down last summer on my '66, lots of stuff was still off, like yours. However, I did install the brake and fuel lines and e-brake cables first. I did that because I remember back in '84 when I was restoring my '68, how much of a pain in the @ss installing those lines were after the body was reinstalled. Involved way too much rolling around under the car, twisting, turning, cursing, etc......and that was almost 40 years ago. Also, connecting the brake fittings will be sooooo much easier when your body is upright and vertical. If you can just wait till you get the lines installed before dropping the body, I think that you....and your back.......will be wayyyy happier. Just my humble two cents. Keep up the good work @Drewm .....it looks GREAT!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

If youve never used one of these, its a game changer!!! So much better than a torpedo. It makes my garage unbearable, after 20 minutes.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Have been using them for about 15 years now... they made my kerosene and propane torpedos obsolete.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> If youve never used one of these, its a game changer!!! So much better than a torpedo. It makes my garage unbearable, after 20 minutes.


Maybe it's me, but Im not seeing anything?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Mr. Heater Double Tank Top 30,000 BTU Radiant Propane Space Heater MHS30T - The Home Depot


Double your heat with the two burners of the MHS30T. The burner heads combine to provide up to 30,000 BTU of heat whether you're fishing a lake or fixing your brakes. Each burner has three heat settings



www.homedepot.com


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## Scott06 (May 6, 2020)

Drewm said:


> I put another coat on this morning before work. I think that will be enough. With basically 3 coats of paint (encapsulator and 2 coats of chassis black) I don't think anything else will be needed.
> 
> Now to figure out what to do next. The topcoat says full cure in 12-24 hours, but with the colder weather it might take longer. I am keeping a small heater on in my garage and trying to keep it above 50 degrees. It's about 25 outside now, so I may have to supplement the heat with my torpedo heater.
> 
> I have seen some resto's where every brake line, fuel line, motor, etc., is on the frame and then the body goes on. I think I am going to have to put the body back on the frame and worry about running lines afterwards. I just don't have the room in my garage to keep the body off for that long.


Your photos brought back memories to when I did the same in my parents garage - I had a spare engine block , cinder blocks, and a piece of terra cotta chimney liner holding up the rockers with the frame underneath. Could not roll the frame out from under it , but gave me about a foot of access to do sections of passenger and trunk floor. I was a younger man then.

I would do the brake and fuel lines now as it is so much easier to access them by the rear axle. You can do the front suspension before the front clip goes on, rear axle isn't hard to drop later.

Amazing how much space a car take up when you blow it into parts, and how long it takes to get it back together...


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I grew up with one of these in my Dads shop.










Amazon sells them still. And they say you can use the oil from the deep fried turkey. That will make for a great shop atmosphere.

"The Smudge Pot will run on Diesel, kerosene, cooking oil (maybe from that thanksgiving turkey you fried) or used motor oil."


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

I got a roll of nicopp and bent up the brake lines for my rear axle...










It was easy to work with and I would like to use nicopp and bend up the other brake lines. I did buy a prebent steel line that runs front to back along the frame, so I can use that as a template for the nicopp, but with a fuel line I am not sure If I will get the lengths correct. I suppose I can get the pre-bent fuel lines, but nicopp seems to have a lot going for it...strong and easy to bend and wont corrode.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Drewm said:


> I got a roll of nicopp and bent up the brake lines for my rear axle...
> It was easy to work with and I would like to use nicopp and bend up the other brake lines. I did buy a prebent steel line that runs front to back along the frame, so I can use that as a template for the nicopp, but with a fuel line I am not sure If I will get the lengths correct. I suppose I can get the pre-bent fuel lines, but nicopp seems to have a lot going for it...strong and easy to bend and wont corrode.


 They saved my bacon. 86 C30 left front brake line from flex line (in the frame rail) to combination valve (in radiator support) 8 inchs apart so 90 turn at the frame rail 90 at the radiator support the the unknown angle at the combination valve. My hands barely fit to get my fingers on the thing. Made the rough shape put it in and bend in place with my fingers. Did not have to remove anything. Like Amy likes to saw "Game Changer"


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## Scott06 (May 6, 2020)

Drewm said:


> I got a roll of nicopp and bent up the brake lines for my rear axle...
> 
> View attachment 160011
> 
> ...


I got an Inline tube stainless fuel line - fit perfectly


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Mr. Heater Double Tank Top 30,000 BTU Radiant Propane Space Heater MHS30T - The Home Depot
> 
> 
> Double your heat with the two burners of the MHS30T. The burner heads combine to provide up to 30,000 BTU of heat whether you're fishing a lake or fixing your brakes. Each burner has three heat settings
> ...


I'm in the Controlled Environment Agriculture industry and can tell you that infrared heating is so much better than air-space heating.....especially on your body when you're rolling around in a cold shop. It heats YOU and objects instead of the air. @armyadarkness Great advice as always Jimmy.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The temperature in San Diego on Christmas weekend is predicted to be in the high 70s

HA

I don't need no stinkin' heater...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

O52 said:


> The temperature in San Diego on Christmas weekend is predicted to be in the high 70s
> 
> HA
> 
> I don't need no stinkin' heater...



You stink!  Just rub it in why don't you.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> Mr. Heater Double Tank Top 30,000 BTU Radiant Propane Space Heater MHS30T - The Home Depot
> 
> 
> Double your heat with the two burners of the MHS30T. The burner heads combine to provide up to 30,000 BTU of heat whether you're fishing a lake or fixing your brakes. Each burner has three heat settings
> ...


I have a single I use in my water pump building if my pipe freezes on my. Generally anything 20 degrees and above I am OK, but below that I let my sink water trickle so the pipe in the pump house does not freeze - always the same place. But if it does, I fire up the propane heater in in about 20 minutes the water is flowing again.

I just bought a Craftsman torpedo heater (we used to call the salamander heaters) for my use out in my tarp enclosed car port. WTF? $8.00 a gallon for K-1 kerosene. It also runs on diesel so I guess I will be running diesel next go around unless I can find a lot cheaper kerosene.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

O52 said:


> The temperature in San Diego on Christmas weekend is predicted to be in the high 70s
> 
> HA
> 
> I don't need no stinkin' heater...


Who asked you 😉


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Joes1966GTO said:


> I'm in the Controlled Environment Agriculture industry and can tell you that infrared heating is so much better than air-space heating.....especially on your body when you're rolling around in a cold shop. It heats YOU and objects instead of the air. @armyadarkness Great advice as always Jimmy.


That was the exact issue with the torpedos... as soon as they shut off, the heat was gone. But those sun lamps heat so quickly and thoroughly, that I have to turn them off after 15 minutes.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I have a single I use in my water pump building if my pipe freezes on my. Generally anything 20 degrees and above I am OK, but below that I let my sink water trickle so the pipe in the pump house does not freeze - always the same place. But if it does, I fire up the propane heater in in about 20 minutes the water is flowing again.
> 
> I just bought a Craftsman torpedo heater (we used to call the salamander heaters) for my use out in my tarp enclosed car port. WTF? $8.00 a gallon for K-1 kerosene. It also runs on diesel so I guess I will be running diesel next go around unless I can find a lot cheaper kerosene.


Diesel isnt much better, right now.

If you periodically need instant, emergency heat (sounds like you and I are in the same boat) propane is the King, but if you're trying to heat a shop to work in, the best thing you can do is to buy a very small wood stove, and run a chimney, even if it's temporary.

Not only is the fuel free, but the stove and chimney continue to generate heat, long after the fire is out. My setup is only about 12" around, but I load it with swamp maple and put a cast iron frying pan on top of it, filled with scrap iron bits. They generate heat for an hour, after the flame is gone.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> That was the exact issue with the torpedos... as soon as they shut off, the heat was gone. But those sun lamps heat so quickly and thoroughly, that I have to turn them off after 15 minutes.


@armyadarkness - Agree 100%. Also, back in the day, my Father went "old school" when were packaging potatoes all winter long in a cold, damp potato storage. He'd fill those torpedoes with dirty diesel and the fumes were so bad after a few hours not only were you light headed, but had a distinct taste in your mouth. No bueno. That might explain why I only have three working brain cells left.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Joes1966GTO said:


> @armyadarkness - Agree 100%. Also, back in the day, my Father went "old school" when were packaging potatoes all winter long in a cold, damp potato storage. He'd fill those torpedoes with dirty diesel and the fumes were so bad after a few hours not only were you light headed, but had a distinct taste in your mouth. No bueno. That might explain why I only have three working brain cells left.


I abandoned the torpedo heaters for inside use long ago. Great, fast heat, but the fumes seemed to make me more hazy the morning after than normal. They DO say to use them in a well ventilated area, but it's hard to waste the fuel money and heat with the garage doors open when your budget is tight. Then I switched to wood heat (22 years ago) and liked that much, much better. Now that I have my acreage cleaned up and have used up all the "extra" wood on the place...not too mention I have cut my blue jeans a few times with a chainsaw (close calls)...this year was time for a change and had a propane heater installed from the ceiling and bucked up for the fuel bill. Luckily, I was given a 250 gallon propane tank which reduced the cost of this endeavor quite a bit. I spent the extra coin for a heater unit that pulls the combustion air from outside and vents the CO back out. I spend too much time with solvent vapors in the air to risk blowing up. How I have not blown up to date with the wood stove...God only knows!

I do miss the residual heat coming off the wood stove over night that helped keep the shop warm, but I don't miss messing with the chores associated with wood heat. I walk in and kick the thermostat up and get to work. Check back with me in spring to see if the $500 worth of propane gets me through the winter.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Drewm said:


> I got a roll of nicopp and bent up the brake lines for my rear axle...
> 
> View attachment 160011
> 
> ...


its looking good. its gonna be a very nice car.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Great work Drewm! Keep it up. Look forward to more pics as you progress.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Just wanted to say thanks to those that suggested I install the fuel lines while the body is off the car. I finally got both lines (vapor return also) installed. I am sure that I used pretty much all the cuss words that I know while doing it. Had to install and pull them a few times before I got them where I wanted them. The issue was the black protective sheathing kept sliding down as I would feed it through the frame. It should be about a foot longer. I finally used some of the self adhesive rubber that I used for my steering column and was able to get the protection on the line where I needed it. I do not think it would be possible to install one or both of these lines in one piece with the body on. 

I am waiting on some brake line clips so I have everything taped to the frame so I don't trip on a line while stepping over the frame. Also, my crossmember is not installed yet, its just sitting there until I can get some replacement insulators. The parts place insulators might work as a door stop, but thats about it.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Dang It, that's got to feel good! I can't wait until I'm running fuel and brake lines. Late in '23 if all goes well.


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