# Dearborn 3 speed toploader trans



## PMD4me (7 mo ago)

Hey all, I'm new to the thread & am looking for any info I can about the Ford Dearborn 3spd trans that was standard equipment on 60's Pontiacs. It's my understanding that Ford sourced these out to Pontiac, because the Saginaws didn't hold up under the torque of Ram airs & HO's, and the toploaders were fairly bulletproof. Apparently they're somewhat rare, because getting parts for them has been difficult.
I recently spoke to a transmission rebuilder (who's been in business many years but shall remain nameless) that said to me he wouldn't touch it, and good luck finding parts,
I know that not many GTO's & Trans Am's had the 3spds, and that they discontinued the Dearborn in 70, (correct me if this info is inaccurate) but there's GOT to be folks out there who supplies parts for them, or is familiar with them.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

I have one that I will have someone rebuild over the winter. The auto's and three sped manuals were stock items unless you ordered a 4 speed. I called three shops already and neither one shyed away. If I am not mistaken it's almost the same rebuild as the 4 speed top loader. So a old school ford mechanic can fix you up. Parts are out here. If I find my list I will share it.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

There are over a hundred different versions of the Ford Toploader (3 Speed / 4 Speed / 3 Speed Overdrive) which was used from 1963 to the late eighties by numerous manufacturers with engines from a Bronco 200 CI six to HP Ford V-8s. It was not only the standard HD three speed for BOP from mid 64 (B Bodies) to 69 (A & F) and 70 (B). Due to its cast iron case and open top access, it is much stronger than anything GM had to offer including the Muncie four speeds. A version was used by Chevrolet trucks and GMC in the mid seventies as well as AMC, Jeep etc. It is the great grand-daddy of the current TKO transmissions.

Although the GM Dearborn version of the Ford 'Top Loader' 3 speed is said to have a different diameter mainshaft, (I have not verified) I bought a rebuild kit from a Bronco store in Medford Oregon mostly for the seals and gaskets. The local speed shop here in San Diego, with deep Ford roots, (JBA) has told me that it wasn't necessary to rebuild it if it wasn't abused. They recommend keep running it as is.

I haven't done anything to the trans in the last 54 years since it was new. I opened it up the other day to inspect the gears and synchros and they look like new. I'll probably just install a new rear seal and be done with it.


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## PMD4me (7 mo ago)

Thanks for your replies. It shifts fine but leaks. My intention was new gaskets/seals, but while it's apart, to have it freshened up. I'm inclined to just let it ride if everything looks good. Now I just need to locate a gasket/seal kit.....


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PMD4me said:


> Thanks for your replies. It shifts fine but leaks. My intention was new gaskets/seals, but while it's apart, to have it freshened up. I'm inclined to just let it ride if everything looks good. Now I just need to locate a gasket/seal kit.....


You should be able to find a kit. As pointed out, very rugged/strong transmission and would take a lot to destroy one. I like them, and can carry a good race from a dead stop. The disadvantage is the lack of the extra gear as found in a 4-speed and the gear spread. You can be at that speed where you are going too fast to drop a gear and take off as the guy with the 4-speed can. Get him to do a re-match from a dead stop and see who wins. It's all about torque.


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## nhcd538 (12 d ago)

Hijacking another one here...

Does anyone know firsthand if a Dearborn Toploader 3-speed out of a 65 Mustang would bolt into a 67 GTO with a 400? I assume the bolt pattern and input shafts (10 spline) are the same? Or would I need to source a BOP version of the Toploader? 

Thanks.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Mainshaft is bigger in diameter from my understanding.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

nhcd538 said:


> Hijacking another one here...
> 
> Does anyone know firsthand if a Dearborn Toploader 3-speed out of a 65 Mustang would bolt into a 67 GTO with a 400? I assume the bolt pattern and input shafts (10 spline) are the same? Or would I need to source a BOP version of the Toploader?
> 
> Thanks.


The BOP 3-speed is called a Dearborn, one of the Ford 3 speeds that got put in the Pontiacs. They are basically a "3.03" transmission with a different input and tailhousing. The GM style uses a 1.125 diameter input shaft and the tailhousing gives a mounting pad for the Hurst or Hurst style shifter.

"The designation 3.03 is the centerline distance between counter shaft and mainshaft."

So the answer is "no" it will not bolt in as is.

Here is an ID list of the transmission tags that ID the trans and the Ford vehicle it came from:



3 Speed ID Chart


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## nhcd538 (12 d ago)

Thank you sir. I suppose I could swap the GM input shaft to make it work but then I'd be looking at some frankenstein pilot bearing/bushing situation probably.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I had the some thought with a spare Toploader for my 67 cougar, When the 4 spd went out in the cougar they opted for the cheaper 3sp. I found a 4 spd in Kansas and a rebuild kit from David Kee. So it will get swapped when I have to service it next.


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

I may have a seal / gasket kit for the Dearborn, let me know if you still need it.


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