# 1970 GTO Judge color change



## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

We have 1970 GTO Judge, born Granada Gold with Sandlewood interior... YUK!
What are your opinions about changing the colors to Cardial Red with Black interior? The car is numbers matching, 455 with Ram Air lll. The car is also registered with PHS. Restoring for resale and currently has a real bad Orbit Orange paint job (it is how I bought it). Any thoughts?


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Sorry, I say for an original Judge, for max value, go with the Granada Gold and Sandlewood. I've seen GTO's in this color combo and I personally think they look classy and beautiful. Make your GTO stand out with a quality resto, not a flashy color. JMO. 

That said, it is your car and you should do what you want if you plan to keep it. :cheers


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Original combo is best for re-sale on a numbers matching car...if you plan on keeping it paint it what you like. i agree with Alky thats actually a nice combo, much more subtle than Orbit orange.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I agree with the above.... If you want to flip the car and plan to change paint, then change it back to the matching numbers color.

Good quality paint job say 12-15K 300 for stripes... then the interior change out.... major bucks ...... You just lost your investment.

A 455? This is what a buyer will want over the color. If you are hardened on improving the color and it were me, I'd redo it in Orbit Orange then flip it. You'll make a better return for minimal $ outgo. Don't underestimate Orbit Orange.... this is a hot color.


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## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

Well... Too late to change:-/. The paint was already mixed and delivered... Lets see how this plays out! I will keep y'all posted and truly appreciate your input.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

qpb said:


> The car is numbers matching, 455 with Ram Air lll. The car is also registered with PHS.


I believe in 70 the 455 wasn't available on the Judge or with Ram Air, If I am wrong I would love to see those PHS documents,


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

you are correct Randy

From Ultimate GTO

RAIII and IV were only offered on the 400

455cu in*	

* Not available on The Judge


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Thanks, 

More than likely the person who painted the car orbit orange also cloned it as a judge, if the car has the original drive train it may have the type-c 12 bolt which was also a rare option for the lemans or GTO with a 455.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmmm, conflicting info on Wickopedia, i would love to see the PHS too

The Judge remained available as an option on GTOs. The Judge came standard with the Ram Air III, while the Ram Air IV was optional. Though the 455 CID was available as an option on the standard GTO throughout the entire model year, the 455 was not offered on The Judge until late in the year. "Orbit Orange" became the new standard color for the 1970 Judge, but any GTO color was available on The Judge. Striping was relocated to the upper wheelwell brows.


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## joesweeting (May 8, 2011)

Depends on what you want to do with it. I love my "Carousel red" color GTO. I don't want to sell my car. If I get stationed overseas again I will put it in storage. I also like satin black and red, but the "Carousel red" is by far my favorite. The original color of my car was green, but who ever changed it did a good job all the trunk, under the hood and doors were painted "Carousel red". I had to wait until I got the PHS docs to find out the original color.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

05GTO said:


> I believe in 70 the 455 wasn't available on the Judge or with Ram Air, If I am wrong I would love to see those PHS documents,


That's what I thought too but I was gonna research it first before posting. Ya beat me to it!!

Check the rear end as Randy suggested.... 10 or 12 bolt? 455 "should" be a 12 bolt.

PHS will state the Judge code: 332 a 337.02 option

Regardless...... your concern about changing colors for numbers matching is now mute.


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## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

I sent for my own PHS and will get the final scoop on its identity... as I said before though, Vin# 242370P.... and body tag say she is a Judge. After further research, and your helpful input sent me crawling all over the engine, and Internet ... I believe it's a 400,,, will keep you posted . Thanks!


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

ALKYGTO said:


> Sorry, I say for an original Judge, for max value, go with the Granada Gold and Sandlewood. I've seen GTO's in this color combo and I personally think they look classy and beautiful. Make your GTO stand out with a quality resto, not a flashy color. JMO.
> 
> That said, it is your car and you should do what you want if you plan to keep it. :cheers


:agree


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

qpb said:


> I sent for my own PHS and will get the final scoop on its identity... as I said before though, Vin# 242370P.... and body tag say she is a Judge. After further research, and your helpful input sent me crawling all over the engine, and Internet ... I believe it's a 400,,, will keep you posted . Thanks!


If the engine is a 455, In 1970 pontiac had a 455 cast on the driver's side of the block.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What all these gents said: keep it original. Anybody plunking down 40+ k for a Judge will not want to deal with the 10 to 20,000 dollars additional required to make it the "correct" color. These cars are too high end these days to modify, IMO. I'd go back to the "bland" color combo and stand out from the crowd of red and orange Judges, personally.


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## JudgeSR (Nov 25, 2012)

I would return or eat the paint, and stick with original colors if matching number Judge.


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## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

*I found out what it is!*



qpb said:


> We have 1970 GTO Judge, born Granada Gold with Sandlewood interior... YUK!
> What are your opinions about changing the colors to Cardial Red with Black interior? The car is numbers matching, 455 with Ram Air lll. The car is also registered with PHS. Restoring for resale and currently has a real bad Orbit Orange paint job (it is how I bought it). Any thoughts?


PHS Doc & window sticker states: 400 Ram Air III, Turbohydromatic Automatic columb shift, AC, PS, Front Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, 8 track Tape, Tinted Glass, Ant. In Windshield 
Vin#. 242370P196458. Eng# 20P196458. Granada Gold with Sandalwood Int.

Now I heard that Automatic on the columb is very rare...
That Ram Air III with AC is very rare and to top it off, in Granada Gold this car could be one of one!!! Who knows... What I do know is I apparently have a rather special car that I changed the color on, inside and out... Lol! Good thing I wasn't planning on selling it for REAL BIG Bucks! :willy:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Regarding the earlier post on it being a 455. According to the GTO Red Book. A 455 could be ordered with the Judge for late in the model year 1970. I do not believe the Judge ever came with column shift. I could have sworn I read that somewhere. As I recall All Turbo hydro matics were console and manuals were Hurst T handles. If this is a real judge with a column shift it was special ordered?


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## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

*Rare!*

It says right on the PHS and window sticker Columb Shift... Now how bad have I messed up with a inside and out color change? Maybe not that bad, cause it rarity will make up for being incorrect color :shutme


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

qpb said:


> It says right on the PHS and window sticker Columb Shift... Now how bad have I messed up with a inside and out color change? Maybe not that bad, cause it rarity will make up for being incorrect color :shutme


IMO? As rare as it is with a column shift unless a collector is willing to shell out $ for it, I would think the column shift as rare as it is would hinder the resale value over the color change. The originality is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. For a collector, changing the color inside and out won't be the issue its that Judge Column shift the collector will focus on. For the "average" guy who would want the car to drive or show it at events, the column shift's first reaction will be "clone." Having copies of the documentation on hand for those events will add to the correcting of those assumptions. 

Jim Mathison from PHS may be able to guide you on the value of this. I am certain no factory Judges ever came with a column shift, this to me says special order.. but why? Interesting.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Can you show us some pics of the car such as the engine bay, the motor the body tag saying its a Judge interior of the car and the PHS. This will help in trying to unravel your mystery.


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## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

I will gather pics and pics of docs soon as I can. Today I take my Husband to pre- op for knee sergury tomorrow. Guess the cat is out of the bag! Yes, I am a Lady that restores cars.:seeya


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

05GTO said:


> I believe in 70 the 455 wasn't available on the Judge or with Ram Air, If I am wrong I would love to see those PHS documents,


I recall seeing one and I forgot I had a pic of it. Notice the red center caps, red replaced the black ones in mid-late 1970 model year. This car is in a private collection in Maryland. You can imagine its worth. The 455 H.O. was a special ordered car made available late model year 1970.


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## qpb (Oct 29, 2012)

I overestimated the powers of my iPad cause it won't load pictures on this site. 

will rev up the big computer this weekend and show you My 1970 GTO Judge. :seeya:


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## judgeman (Jan 31, 2013)

Hi, Just to let you know I am restoring a 69 judge ragtop auto column shift with a bench seat. Not the way I would have ordered it but it is they it came factory.


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