# Cash for clunkers' rules are released, sparking a rush



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

*Cash for clunkers' rules are released, sparking a rush,*
_Los Angeles Times By Martin Zimmerman 
July 25, 2009_









_*A sign at Tropical Chevrolet Chrysler Jeep in Miami Shores, Fla., advertises incentives to buy more-fuel-efficient cars.The government's Car Allowance Rebate System offers drivers up to $4,500.
*_​
Clunkermania officially began Friday. 

The federal government finally released the rules that dealers and their customers have to follow to participate in the much-discussed "cash for clunkers" program, which can provide consumers with up to $4,500 when they trade in an older vehicle and buy a newer, more fuel-efficient model from a participating dealer.

The law creating the $1-billion program went into effect July 1, but many dealers were reluctant to participate until they got a look at the rules. The arrival of the 100-plus-page document Friday morning sparked a registration rush that overwhelmed the government's computers, resulting in waits of two hours or more, the National Automobile Dealers Assn. reported.

The program is also exciting a fair amount of interest among consumers. Online auto information provider Edmunds .com said its traffic has been at record levels in recent weeks. Part of that comes from what may be the beginnings of a rebound in car sales, but the clunkers program is helping.

Rest of the story----> Los Angeles Times


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

A customer of mine who's up on things said there was a manditory crush order on all cars used for the 'cash for clunkers' trade ins. trade-ins could not be put back on the road or re-licenced the way he talked.


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

What happens to the clunkers after the trade-in? Can they be resold?

The Car Allowance Rebate System requires that the trade-in be crushed or shredded so that it will not be resold. The wrecking yard is allowed to salvage some parts for resale, excluding the engine and drivetrain.



Just like putting down Lassie because he got too old.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

The ultimate goal is to remove them from the road period. SEMA sent me an email sometime ago regarding this. The FEDS want all old cars off the road this includes our classics. SEMA raised hell over this and petitions were signed. What helped US was there are members in congress who are car guys and share our hobby. Had it not been for them and the thousands of sigs on petitions the move to ban all of our cars could have come much closer or even passed. 

I expect the movement to remanifest itself in the future. This going green crap is a brainwashing and is designed to have people like us bow to peer pressure from those people who are now self-righteous and drive smart cars and hybrids and think they are saving the world, look down their noses at us and now blame us for much misrepresented "facts" they are being brainwashed with.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Yeah... problem is, people STILL can't afford a new car because of the economic times...

They can come take my '64 like they can come take my AK-47...


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## journeysend (Jul 28, 2008)

The current administration will not stop at this "cash for clunkers" program. If we allow it, Obama and his cronies will continue to erode freedom by any means possible.DO NOT BEND OVER FOR THESE MARXISTS! Unless real Americans reach down and find our balls again we can all prepare to live in the U.S.S.A. I for one would prefer to die as a free man than to live as a slave!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

MOPAR is advertising matching the goverments $4500, for 9 grand towards a new overpriced POS.


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## MJGTOWISH (Jun 15, 2006)

Rukee said:


> MOPAR is advertising matching the goverments $4500, for 9 grand towards a new overpriced POS.


Any MOPAR WITH CVT is a pos..... Fixed  I did have a neon srt-4 once..


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## Bumpin' Yota (Aug 19, 2008)

at least this **** will be over by nov 1st.

I wonder how many priceless classics will bite the dust from this idioticy from the whitehouse?


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## jackalclone1 (Jul 6, 2009)

people will bitch about anything. the car guys will keep their classic cars, and the people that just want a car for daily driving will trade in their pos's (even if their potential classics) for something that makes them happy, and do some environmental good in the process.

people don't look at the big picture. it's not like the people that obsess over cars like we do are going out and getting 4500 for their camaro for a prius, they are trading in cars like their old oldmobiles that make decent paper weights and have trouble getting to interstate speeds for something that is more practical. in the process we are also decreasing our dependence on foreign oil, albeit not much, by getting more fuel efficient cars in the hands of average consumers (not us), as well as helping the environment.

for a relatively cheap bill, i'm not seeing the downside, other than it being a pride issue, but if you stop and think about it doesn't affect you unless you make it.


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## nicrnjc (Feb 14, 2008)

journeysend said:


> The current administration will not stop at this "cash for clunkers" program. If we allow it, Obama and his cronies will continue to erode freedom by any means possible.DO NOT BEND OVER FOR THESE MARXISTS! Unless real Americans reach down and find our balls again we can all prepare to live in the U.S.S.A. I for one would prefer to die as a free man than to live as a slave!


Are you serious? How about this? Why is diesel so expensive compared to unleaded? When was the last time anyone walked to the corner store? Does everyone turn off something if were not using it? What's gonna happen with the batteries from hybrid cars when they're juiced out? Now the big question is, who's pockets are continuing to get fatter? Most people are already brain washed b/c or the best private marketing firms in the world, right here, in the U.S.A. Turn of your TV, stop listening to the radio. Go buy printed papers, and visit "real" news web sites and you'll see what's really going on... We live in the richest country in the world. We spend the most. We don't think as much as we spend. Real Americans are loosing our houses, and are dying b/c we don't have sufficient health care. Now go talk to someone that can actually do something about it.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

:agree People are so misinformed and tend to respond with that as a basis. I won't add to it because no one really cares about my political beliefs any more than I care to read someone elses political beliefs on a car site other than for the sheer entertainment that it can sometimes provide.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

jackalclone1 said:


> people will bitch about anything. the car guys will keep their classic cars, and the people that just want a car for daily driving will trade in their pos's (even if their potential classics) for something that makes them happy, and do some environmental good in the process.
> 
> people don't look at the big picture. it's not like the people that obsess over cars like we do are going out and getting 4500 for their camaro for a prius, they are trading in cars like their old oldmobiles that make decent paper weights and have trouble getting to interstate speeds for something that is more practical. in the process we are also decreasing our dependence on foreign oil, albeit not much, by getting more fuel efficient cars in the hands of average consumers (not us), as well as helping the environment.
> 
> for a relatively cheap bill, i'm not seeing the downside, other than it being a pride issue, but if you stop and think about it doesn't affect you unless you make it.


While I agree many people bitch about anything, there was merit in defeating the first 2 pieces of legislation presented by the FEDS. The watered down version of the Cash for Clunkers we see now is a result of a grass root movement to defeat legislation that would have opened the door to Classic cars possibly being banned. SEMA and alike worked to preserve OUR rights to enjoy these cars, the very cars the FEDS want off the road. The Cash for Clunkers has an expiration date on it. While there are many cars out there that IMO should be banned there are many out there that without some sort of protection by a group like SEMA, its very possible those cars would be targeted for removal. After this program ends a more aggressive program could be in the works. SEMA and alike with their connections will continue to work to make sure classic cars won't be targeted for extinction on public roads. 

*SEMA and SAN Members Help Defeat “Cash for Clunkers”

Congress Rejects Wasteful Spending Program That Costs
American Jobs​*
Earlier this year, SEMA launched the largest grassroots effort in its 46-year history to prevent inclusion of a national “Cash for Clunkers” program within the economic stimulus bill. From late December through mid-February, SEMA members and SEMA Action Network (SAN)* enthusiasts made phone calls and sent thousands of emails and faxes to members of Congress urging lawmakers to oppose a vehicle scrappage program. The campaign was successful. The legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate and signed into law by President Obama was “clunker-free.”

Cash for Clunkers programs accelerate the normal retirement of vehicles through the purchase of older cars which are then typically crushed into blocks of scrap metal. Two proposals were put forth and then withdrawn during the Congressional debate. The first was a $8 billion program targeting SUVs and pickup trucks of any year that make less than 18 mpg such as Chevy Silverados, Dodge Rams, Ford F-Series and Jeep Wranglers. The second would have provided $16 billion worth of cash vouchers to individuals making less than $50,000 a year ($75,000 for families) who allowed their turned-in cars to be destroyed. 

“SEMA continues to believe that a Cash for Clunkers program would, for no proven gain, hurt thousands of independent repair shops, auto restorers, customizers and their customers across the country that depend on the used car market,” said SEMA Vice President of Government Affairs Steve McDonald. “Instead, we are working with the House and Senate and all stakeholders on sound economic solutions to the current recession that will help drive product sales for the entire auto industry, including the vast automotive aftermarket and its specialty equipment segment.” 

The economic stimulus law includes a SEMA-supported amendment which allows taxpayers to claim a federal tax deduction on state sales/excise taxes when buying a new car in 2009. The new law also contains several business tax credits to help spur capital investments and new hires. 

Lawmakers recognize that SEMA members and SAN enthusiasts were the first to step forward last year in vocal opposition to a federal Cash for Clunkers program. The message resonated. SEMA staff also knocked on hundreds of doors across Capitol Hill outlining how the program would cut into the business of thousands of SEMA members companies and make it more difficult and expensive for enthusiasts to pursue their love of cars.

Looking to the future, Cash for Clunkers still has loyal advocates in Washington, DC. Another clunkers proposal may reemerge later this year. SEMA will remain vigilant in educating legislators on the need to oppose programs that do not spur car sales, reduce emissions or raise fuel economy. Meanwhile, SEMA takes this opportunity to thank its member companies and SAN enthusiasts for a job well done. Your voice helps protect our industry and hobby.

For more information about SEMA’s work with the US Congress, contact Brian Duggan, Director, Congressional Affairs at [email protected]

*The SEMA Action Network (SAN) is a nationwide partnership of car clubs, and individual enthusiasts who work together to impact legislation that affects car and truck enthusiasts of all kinds. Through the SAN, SEMA is in direct communication with nearly 3 million individuals. For more information, contact SEMA or visit SEMA SAN - SEMA ACTION NETWORK. 

SEMA SAN - SEMA ACTION NETWORK


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Plain and simple, if you look to the government to solve problems you will always be disapointed. The individual American citizen can do so much more good for themselves than if they rely on the government to fix their problems. 

That said, out of all the failed stimulus plans we've had so far this is the best. It actually gets money into the hands of people. A better idea, and a fairer idea would be to allow people to have two months of tax free income. Don't take the money and give it back, just let everyone keep their money for two months. 

They would spend it, that would stimulate the economy and the tax base would increase for the rest of the year. The tax revenues would increase and offset the 2 free months. 

People then wouldn't have to spend it on what the government thought they should spend it on, but instead what they really needed or wanted. 

Think about it, we are giving our money to the government. They are telling us if you want to keep some of your money you should buy what the government thinks is best for you.


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## Justice (Oct 9, 2005)

I agree with Fergyflyer, the money should be directed towards the people. People spend and infuse money back into the enconomy. 

Now some news sites are saying they've already recieved so many vouchers that the program may be halted as early as this weekend.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Looks like the FEDS are anteing-up another 2B. The initial response was overwhelming. 

I wonder if I can get 4500 for my 70'?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I was told between all the credit card companies and car companies bail out money, they could have givin every adult and child 80 grand each. That would have done more to stimulate the economy more then anything. I know if I had 80 grand, I could pay off my house, pay off all my debt and buy a new car.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Rukee said:


> I was told between all the credit card companies and car companies bail out money,* they could have givin every adult and child 80 grand each.* That would have done more to stimulate the economy more then anything. I know if I had 80 grand, I could pay off my house, pay off all my debt and buy a new car.


That's not the type "spreading of the wealth" around Hussein is advocating. :lol:
He wants the rich to give it up and be penalized not the FEDS. :cool
Giving it to everyone is too easy. They wanna be Socialists and are working on owning us, they want to own free enterprise too so they give give give with a hefty price tag.

Funny, Hussein took over 3 months making sure he picked out just the right dog for his babies, but he is pushing everything through in hours and days. I guess choosing the right pooch is more important then making sure certain policies get signed into law in a matter of hours without the entire country club understanding what they are signing. 



OK back to the Clunkers...... :seeya:


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

this is a side track on the cash 4 clunkers but heres my rant
three words for this stuff- F**k government bailouts-
last time I checked the global economy is driven by capitalism
if your business goes under well thats the breaks- AIG, GM, Fannie Mae etc should all have been allowed to fail and go under- that would be a GREAT lesson for the next person starting a business- do it right or you are out- not run your company into the ground by mismanagement and we'll give you 25 billion - WTF
General Motors should have shut its doors for good, a company so out of touch does not deserve to survive in this economy
here try this go out and start a business selling widgets, over pay employees, over spend on advertising, and make really crappy widgets that do not keep their value then when you go bankrupt see how much taxpayer money you get- it will be none
if one company gets a bailout every company that is shutting its doors should be eligible- but that is not the case why?? big gov't makes no sense to me- you want to see some people out of touch with reality watch the senate on tv- friggin retards
any way how come FORD didnt need any money?
ok i'm done


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I've heard people who already have money and are looking for new cars are buying any running POS for a few hundred bucks just for the credit. Hell, I'd do it. Soak 'em for their idiocy. Take in that '93 Cavialier for a $4500 credit towards a Solstice GXP or G8 GXP.

As for the aside... I don't see why US citizens are so worried about government spending money... they just monetize/print as needed, especially when you consider that the Federal Reserve is covering the decline in demand for US treasury bonds, a.k.a. hand over fist money printing...


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

It's pathetic. No wonder they are going down. Part of the clunker law is the new car/truck has to get (I was told by a dealer this morning) 8 mpg better then the trade in 'clunker'. I own a `91 GMC 1500 2wd v-6 auto that was rated at 17 mpg. Ford or dodge do NOT have a truck that gets 8 mpg better then that to qualify for the program! Nearly 20 years and they can't improve the mpg's hardly at all.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The dealers are also making out on this deal, cause now they get a set amount from the goverment for the trade-in, but they give the customer NOTHING for the trade-in off the price of the new car/truck. If they did it correctly, you should get a value for your trade-in car/truck (like you have in years past) in addition to the goverment voucher. so I should get a grand or 15 hundred off the price for my trade-in plus the 4500.00 from the goverment for about 6 thousand off the new price. But they only do the goverment voucher. So then after the sale, they sell/scrap out all the trade-ins and make out again.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Somehow I feel I'm doing the environment a favor by driving the GTO, which has over twice the horsepower AND fuel economy of that old '84 Parisienne I had once. :lol:


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## chilliwhiggerE (Mar 10, 2009)

There will be no "Classic Cars" getting demolished. They are only accepting cars 25 years and newer that are drivable and have been consistently insured ect. Here's the rules. Cash for Clunkers Consumer Guide - How It Works


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

That 93 Cavalier won't qualify. A 93 Park Avenue won't either, but if it's a 96 Park Avenue with the supercharged V6 it will. Needs to get less than 18 mpg and the Cavalier does better than that. 

A guy I work with just traded his 93 Cadilac Sedan Deville in for a Hyundai Elantra. He paid $800 for the Caddy 3 years ago and it had 220,000 miles and was near death. $11,900 for the Elantra minus $4500 and he ends up with a $7400 2009 Elantra. 

The reason they don't give you any value for the car, other than the $4500, is the car gets bought by the government. It is then sent to the crusher. None of the drivetrain can be salvaged and only minimal other parts can be salvaged. The dealer gets no value for the car other than $4500.


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## leeanator (Sep 7, 2008)

It also looks like they drain the oil from the vehicle and put 2 quarts of sodium silicate in, which when heated turns into glass...therefore seizing the engines, then the car is crushed.

Youtube source:


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Here is my $4500 clunker, it is a 2001 Chevy 2500 express van with a 5.7 V8 (135,700 miles), I traded for a 2009 Silverado standard cab long bed P/U with a V-6.

Some of the rules include;
Proof of insurance for the last 12 months,
Proof of Vehicle registration for the last 12 monts,
Only 1 per person or company per deal, (I would have traded 3)
I believe the new vehicle had to average 4 MPG better than the old.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Do you think Obama traded in his Escalade thats rolling on 24's?


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Has the government not learned a thing??!! The reason "some" people drive clunkers in the first place is because they can't afford a new car payment(not everyone of course). So what happens when the government dangles a carrot in front of them? This person takes advantage of the "cash for clunkers" program, buys a new car and can't afford the payments. Is the government then going to give them bailout money? Is it the housing crisis all over again? Is it really that far fetched?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Only a government program could be so perfect that it helps people who don't need it.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

68greengoat said:


> Has the government not learned a thing??!! The reason "some" people drive clunkers in the first place is because they can't afford a new car payment(not everyone of course). So what happens when the government dangles a carrot in front of them? This person takes advantage of the "cash for clunkers" program, buys a new car and can't afford the payments. Is the government then going to give them bailout money? Is it the housing crisis all over again? Is it really that far fetched?


The Gov't has NOT learned. They are making mistake after mistake after mistake. The Unemployment rate dipped slightly this month after the annalists forecast it jumping to 10%. Hussein is on TV acting like he saved the world. In the meantime his approval ratings are headed to the 40% range. His policies in whole have been a disaster. Rasmussen and alike polls indicate this. For a real good understanding on just how bad it is check with D. Morris Clinton's former #1 guy. http://www.****morris.com/blog/
(This site filters names of people ARGGGGG! The name for Richard in short form begins with a D and ends with a K. MOST men have one of these, lol)
[www.d _ _ Kmorris.com place the i an c in place of the _'s]

MOST of the cash for Clunkers $$ is headed to overseas companies. The stimulus is helping more overseas than here. This program should have been targeted to the Big 3... well, what used to be the Big 3. So now another 2B is gonna be allocated. 
Without going in a political direction.... POLLS.... not the republican party..... show the mistakes made are causing decent amongst the party that is setting forth these policies! Granted the cash for clunkers idea is not a bad idea, it's just not set up like say Germany's was, where you had to buy a German car. Trade your clunker in on a Hyundai where most of the profits goes to Korea. The Health care revolt is real AND NOT FABRICATED by an organized mob as Barbra Boxer and alike say.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

I still see/hear dealership ads around here claiming, "bad credit", "no credit", "no money down", trying to get people into cars no matter what it takes. Are you kidding me??!! Isn't that how this whole mess got started? Greed is still king...... Although, now they're trying to save their butts b/4 they too go down the road. I like how the goverment said they jumped the gun on shutting down so many dealerships.... Ooops, sorry...... Now they're going to try and reopen some. I see a few other issues that they're jumping the gun on.... Health care anyone????????


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Deja vu' Freddie Mac and Sally Mae eh? This has Chris Dodd and Barney Franks finger prints all over it.

And then you have Chevy dealers worried about being closed and yet are charging 10-15K over sticker for a new Camaro. THOSE are the ones that I would axe. There is EVIDENCE of Political influence of legislatures throwing their weight around to rescind dealership closings. Barney Frank was found to be one. This is what you have when the FEDS get involved in the private sector.


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Deja vu' Freddie Mac and Sally Mae eh? This has Chris Dodd and Barney Franks finger prints all over it.
> 
> And then you have Chevy dealers worried about being closed and yet are charging 10-15K over sticker for a new Camaro. THOSE are the ones that I would axe. There is EVIDENCE of Political influence of legislatures throwing their weight around to rescind dealership closings. Barney Frank was found to be one. This is what you have when the FEDS get involved in the private sector.


Just a thought -- and Chris Dodd is one of my U.S. Senators, to my dismay -- if you want to save a ton of money on health care, do two things:
-- Resolve the malpractice mess and don't let people sue for iditotic reasons. This will keep doctors from ordering numerous unneeded tests just to keep their malpractice insurer happy.
-- Make bill-paying simpler.
-- Freebie -- keep the government OUT of health care.

I visited a local Chevy dealer and parked my G8 GXP next to a new Camaro. IMHO, the G8 GXP looks much better and performs similarly. Of course, being a Pontiac guy, I'm predjudiced.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

ppurfield001 said:


> Just a thought -- and Chris Dodd is one of my U.S. Senators, to my dismay -- if you want to save a ton of money on health care, do two things:
> -- Resolve the malpractice mess and don't let people sue for iditotic reasons. This will keep doctors from ordering numerous unneeded tests just to keep their malpractice insurer happy.
> -- Make bill-paying simpler.
> -- Freebie -- keep the government OUT of health care.
> ...


I'm a Chevy guy, GM but mostly prefer a Chevy. You're 100% right on all the above.


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## The intimidator (Sep 24, 2008)

*Destroyed vette*

I saw a 1989 corvette balck mint condition cashed in. You what happened to the vette? :confused It had some sort of additive put into the oil and ran the engine into the ground, blasphemy!!


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

The intimidator said:


> It had some sort of additive put into the oil and ran the engine into the ground, blasphemy!!


Soduim silicate in solution, basically liquid glass. Siezes it up once it reaches the proper temperature.


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