# 1970 Tempest?



## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

I am looking at a 1970 Tempest with 84k numbers matching 350/350. I read something about only like 1400 t 37 tempests were built in 1970. I am wondering what the t37 is and how do i know if this car is one? I have read alot of different stuff some say the t37 was only used in 71 when they dropped the tempest name, some say it was 70 and 71. Whats the real deal? And also what would be the value/ rareness of this tempest? Any general info about the car would be sweet! Thanks in advance!


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

koaffiliate said:


> I am looking at a 1970 Tempest with 84k numbers matching 350/350. I read something about only like 1400 t 37 tempests were built in 1970. I am wondering what the t37 is and how do i know if this car is one? I have read alot of different stuff some say the t37 was only used in 71 when they dropped the tempest name, some say it was 70 and 71. Whats the real deal? And also what would be the value/ rareness of this tempest? Any general info about the car would be sweet! Thanks in advance!


From everything I can find and from what I understand the T-37 was not available in 1970 - there was no special VIN number separating it from the the Tempest line (Like in 69 with the Custom-S - it had a 235 VIN) in 1970 the Tempest line was all 233 LeMans was 235 and LeMans Sport was 237 GTO of course was 242. In 1971 The T-37 was the 233 VIN code. IF the car you were looking at was a T-37 it would be badged as such. 1970 was the last year for the Tempest. In 71 the Tempest name was dropped all together in favor of the T-37. Your 70 Tempest is just another Tempest, no rarer than any other 1970 car. But still a classic Pontiac and an awesome ride. If you like it and the price is right that's all that should matter.


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

I stand corrected, the T-37 was an option package in 1970...as was the GT-37.

For 1970, Pontiac reshuffled its intermediate lineup a bit with the LeMans nameplate downgraded to the mid-line sub-series previously known as the Tempest Custom and included two and four-door pillared sedans, while the previous top-shelf LeMans series was renamed the LeMans Sport in the same three body styles including a four-door hardtop sedan, two-door hardtop coupe and convertible. This year, bigger engines - which had previously reserved for GTOs - were made available on lesser Tempest/LeMans models including a 400 CID V8 rated at 265 hp with a two-barrel carburetor or a 330 hp option with a four-barrel carburetor and dual exhausts. At mid-year the bottom-shelf Tempest line, which initially included only two- and four-door sedans, got a low-price T-37 hardtop coupe which was initially billed as "General Motors' lowest-priced hardtop (undercut by a base Chevrolet Chevelle hardtop coupe introduced a few weeks later). To offer younger buyers a mid-sized muscle car that was less expensive than the GTO, Pontiac offered the T-37 hardtop coupe with a GT-37 appearance package that included striping, three-speed floor shift transmission, tuned suspension and other tinsel. The GT-37 was available with any Tempest/LeMans V8 from the standard 350 two-barrel to the 400 four-barrel. Replacing the Pontiac-built OHC six-cylinder as the base engine for Tempest/LeMans models for 1970 was Chevrolet's 250 cubic-inch inline six-cylinder engine, while the 350 two-barrel was again the base V8 engine and the four-barrel 350 HO was discontinued.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

Pontiacpurebrred said:


> I stand corrected, the T-37 was an option package in 1970...as was the GT-37.
> 
> For 1970, Pontiac reshuffled its intermediate lineup a bit with the LeMans nameplate downgraded to the mid-line sub-series previously known as the Tempest Custom and included two and four-door pillared sedans, while the previous top-shelf LeMans series was renamed the LeMans Sport in the same three body styles including a four-door hardtop sedan, two-door hardtop coupe and convertible. This year, bigger engines - which had previously reserved for GTOs - were made available on lesser Tempest/LeMans models including a 400 CID V8 rated at 265 hp with a two-barrel carburetor or a 330 hp option with a four-barrel carburetor and dual exhausts. At mid-year the bottom-shelf Tempest line, which initially included only two- and four-door sedans, got a low-price T-37 hardtop coupe which was initially billed as "General Motors' lowest-priced hardtop (undercut by a base Chevrolet Chevelle hardtop coupe introduced a few weeks later). To offer younger buyers a mid-sized muscle car that was less expensive than the GTO, Pontiac offered the T-37 hardtop coupe with a GT-37 appearance package that included striping, three-speed floor shift transmission, tuned suspension and other tinsel. The GT-37 was available with any Tempest/LeMans V8 from the standard 350 two-barrel to the 400 four-barrel. Replacing the Pontiac-built OHC six-cylinder as the base engine for Tempest/LeMans models for 1970 was Chevrolet's 250 cubic-inch inline six-cylinder engine, while the 350 two-barrel was again the base V8 engine and the four-barrel 350 HO was discontinued.






This was pretty much what i could gather up online. Is there any way to tell by the vin if its a t 37? I have only seen pics of the car, but it does not appear to have the badging. I am not sure if paint is original because it looks pretty nice from the pic, so the badging might not have been replaced. What do you think the car would be worth? I am going to try and attach a pic. Thanks


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

heres another pic


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

According to pontiacpurebrred, T-37 or GT-37 were option packages. You would have to send the vin to PHS to verify what options are on this car. I would think if it had either option, it would have the badging.

You can bet the farm it was repainted. All the chrome, including the bumpers, have been painted. Exception, door handle and lock. Looks like a hood scoop has been added along with non stock side mirrors...

*EDIT * Did some more research. Looks like a '70 T-37 had a vin that started 233. Although, the post above said all tempests started with a 233.

Even tho this is a GT-37 link, it talks about the T-37 vin....

1970 Pontiac GT-37


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

What do you think the car is worth?


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> According to pontiacpurebrred, T-37 or GT-37 were option packages. You would have to send the vin to PHS to verify what options are on this car. I would think if it had either option, it would have the badging.
> 
> You can bet the farm it was repainted. All the chrome, including the bumpers, have been painted. Exception, door handle and lock. Looks like a hood scoop has been added along with non stock side mirrors...
> 
> ...


Actually, I think that post is incorrect. I have the 68-74 Chilton's guide that has the vin decoder, 233 is Tempest (or T-37 in this case) Since the T-37 IS a Tempest. 
See below - another online vin decoder - 
1970
First Digit:
Code GM Division
2 Pontiac

Second & Third Digits: Fourth & Fifth Digits:
Code Series Code Body
23 Firebird 27 2 dr. Coupe
24 Firebird Espirt 35 Station Wagon 2-Seat
26 Firebird Formula 400 36 Sport Sta. Wagon 2-Seat
28 Firebird Trans Am 37 2 dr. Hardtop
33 Tempest or T-37 39 4 dr. Hardtop
35 LeMans 46 4 dr. Station Wagon 3-Seat
37 LeMans Sport 57 2 dr. Hardtop (Grand Prix)
42 GTO 67 2 dr. Convertible
52 Catalina 69 4 dr. Sedan
56 Executive 87 2 dr. Hardtop
62 Bonneville 
76 Grand Prix

Sixth Digit: Seventh Digit:
Code Model Year Code Assembly Plant
0 1970 1 

Oshawa, Ont., Canada
2 

St. Therese, Que., Canada
A 

Atlanta,GA
B Baltimore, MD
C Southgate, CA
E Linden, NJ
G Framington, MA
L Van Nuys, CA
N Norwood, OH
P Pontiac, MI
R Arlington, TX
X Kansas City, KS
Z Fremont, CA

Last Six Digits: 
Production Numbers


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

*Another good resource*

Pontiac

Again, through 1970 - 233 was Tempest.

http://www.gtomuscle.com/vin70.html

And another


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

I guess the only point I was trying to make was whether the T-37 was a Tempest option package. 



koaffiliate said:


> What do you think the car is worth?


How much are they asking? Painting all the chrome, adding a hood scoop will probably drop the value unless that's exactly what a buyer is looking for... You would also want to verify everything "is" numbers matching as the seller states.... There's also a bunch of other factors to consider when determining the price....


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

Hey man are you local? Another Kansas farm boy? 
I think I just fell over that car....

1970 Pontiac Tempest - $8000 (manhattan)
Date: 2011-07-03, 11:36PM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Hello, I am wanting to see what I can get for this car. It is a nice Tempest, but im not much of a Tempest fan. It has 82k on the stock pontiac 350 motor, and 350 auto transmission, with air, and powersteering, 4 wheel drum brakes, headers, and Flowmaster's, Weld 15" racing wheels, 8" rear, and 5" fronts. The interior needs carpet to be finished. It has bucket seats from a Jag and the rear bench seat also. Real good looking set up, looks kinda stock, but much more comfortable. It has a 2" drop in the front, and air shocks in the back. Very clean car. Now what im wanting, not real sure, but send some real offers. I really want a 60's camaro(as long as no or very little rust), or a Harley(please no sportster's. I'm wanting to go on some close road trips). If you are interested in the car make an offer, worst I will say is no. I in no way "need" to get rid of it, so no low ball offers, please. As far as value of the car, NADA classic car has it valued at $9.1k to $11.5k, Im not asking that, but be real. And try to find another one. This is not only the best priced one, but the only one I can find for sale. Thank you for looking, and have a nice day.

* Location: manhattan
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 2476163766

I don't know if it's worth 8 grand, but that's just me. It is a nice looking car though.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

Pontiacpurebrred said:


> Hey man are you local? Another Kansas farm boy?
> I think I just fell over that car....
> 
> 1970 Pontiac Tempest - $8000 (manhattan)
> ...



That would be the one lol. I'm actually a nebraska boy! Supposed to meet up with this guy shortly so wanted to find out some info on the car. Lol


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

Cornhusker? EEEK 
:lol:

Well rock on man, it looks solid. As is always the case, if you love it buy it. I don't know if it's worth 8 large or not, I mean there are GTO's out there for that and heck I found some GT-37's around CL for that or less. 
If you don't know about this it may help in your search. Search Tempest - it lets you search the nation on CL.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

Pontiacpurebrred said:


> Cornhusker? EEEK
> :lol:
> 
> Well rock on man, it looks solid. As is always the case, if you love it buy it. I don't know if it's worth 8 large or not, I mean there are GTO's out there for that and heck I found some GT-37's around CL for that or less.
> If you don't know about this it may help in your search. Search Tempest - it lets you search the nation on CL.



GO BIG RED! Lol. Thanks for that search deal, its pretty cool. Idk if its worth 8 grand either, I haven't even seen it in person yet... the owner wants to trade for my harley, wich books a lil less then that so idk if it is a good deal. I figured I could drive it a year or two put a lil work into it and re sale for a lil profit. So idk, guess ill go drive it and see if I gotta have it or not. Lol. Thanks


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Funny. I had a 3 month old Honda Shadow that I traded even up for my GTO.....


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

see here's one...

chicago craigslist > northwest suburbs > for sale / wanted > cars & trucks - by owner

70 gto #s match - $4800 (racine )
Date: 2011-07-15, 9:10PM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
this is a #s matching 70 GTO 350 h.p. 400 trans 4800.00 NEEDS FULL RESTO 262-902-7357

many other gto parts available

* Location: racine


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> Funny. I had a 3 month old Honda Shadow that I traded even up for my GTO.....



How much was it worth? Mines a lil older and books for about 6300.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

It was 7 or 8 years ago. Bought the bike for $5800 and added $1000 in acc'ys.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

How you guys enjoyin that 120F heat index? I grew up near York, decided it was too warm in summer, too cold in winter so I moved. What part of the state you in? I am happier now that Callahan is gone, Bo seems to be doing pretty well rebuilding. I might live in Michigan but I am no wolverine fan. 

$8k is kinda steep for a 350 Tempest, at least it is to me. Just because there arent any for sale doesnt mean its rare or desirable, well not $8k desirable. Maybe I am jaded after buying them years ago for $175. It would have to be damn nice to fetch that kind of money.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

Thumpin455 said:


> How you guys enjoyin that 120F heat index? I grew up near York, decided it was too warm in summer, too cold in winter so I moved. What part of the state you in? I am happier now that Callahan is gone, Bo seems to be doing pretty well rebuilding. I might live in Michigan but I am no wolverine fan.
> 
> $8k is kinda steep for a 350 Tempest, at least it is to me. Just because there arent any for sale doesnt mean its rare or desirable, well not $8k desirable. Maybe I am jaded after buying them years ago for $175. It would have to be damn nice to fetch that kind of money.


It is definately HOT! I'm in North Platte, kinda wester NE.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I can't even stand outside for 5 minutes without looking like I just got out of the shower.
South central Wis.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

koaffiliate said:


> It is definately HOT! I'm in North Platte, kinda wester NE.


Been all over out there, HUGE rail yard and Bill Codys house. Its more central Ne, but hey look how close you are to Denver! I have to come home next month to pick up my daughter, I am not looking forward to riding in the truck in that heat without AC. I really need to get the trailer in shape so I can bring my T37 back with me. You want to see a rough one?


























Kinda makes the one you are looking at seem like a show car.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

Ya supposed to be the biggest rail yard in the world. That's pretty much all that's here lol. What do you guys think a good price for the car would be? Nada blue book says 9100 average. They say this value would be a "20 footer". Low value is 5300 or so. I believe the car is closer to average condition.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Not to hate, but I think $8k is high, especially with wrong interior, stock 350, air shocks, and 4 wheel drums.. I have seen some little old lady owned originals in the $4K to 6K range. All you are getting with that car is someone thought it was a hot rod and rode the snot out of it. The matt black paintjob also says the body may not be that straight. The really great cars are out west in Colorado, look west my good man!! Is that Manhattan NY? East coast cars are like midwest cars.
I picked my 70 Lemans Sport up for $4k a couple years ago, rust free and original, mechanic owned. Then I rebuilt everything and painted it. But I showed it a couple times with the old paint job. There are deals out there, you just have to find them. It's about $700 to ship a car cross country, I would check Ebay and craigslist. If this is the car you want, wish you all the best luck!! Really don't mean to sound bad, but GTO and Lemans dollars arent' the same, and I'm a Lemans guy.. Buy the best bang for the buck you can.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

koaffiliate said:


> Ya supposed to be the biggest rail yard in the world. That's pretty much all that's here lol. What do you guys think a good price for the car would be? Nada blue book says 9100 average. They say this value would be a "20 footer". Low value is 5300 or so. I believe the car is closer to average condition.


I have a question about "book" price. For one, I think all it does is give a starting point , or, maybe a ballpark idea on what a car "may" be worth. The prices that NADA, or whoever, publishes are for cars that are all original. Am I'm right? I guess that's what I've always assumed. Condition would play a huge role obviously. Any mods, depending on how they are done, can either raise or lower the value of the car. Seen some modded cars go for big bucks. If low book is $5300, that doesn't mean a rusted piece of junk is automatically worth low book. It seems that some people think that. I'm not refering to the OP or any forum member. Just some car guys(?) outside our forum arena.

Am I on track on how book values work for vintage cars, or, am I way off base? I feel this info could be valueable for a number of people including myself.... Thoughts?


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

jetstang said:


> Not to hate, but I think $8k is high, especially with wrong interior, stock 350, air shocks, and 4 wheel drums.. I have seen some little old lady owned originals in the $4K to 6K range. All you are getting with that car is someone thought it was a hot rod and rode the snot out of it. The matt black paintjob also says the body may not be that straight. The really great cars are out west in Colorado, look west my good man!! Is that Manhattan NY? East coast cars are like midwest cars.
> I picked my 70 Lemans Sport up for $4k a couple years ago, rust free and original, mechanic owned. Then I rebuilt everything and painted it. But I showed it a couple times with the old paint job. There are deals out there, you just have to find them. It's about $700 to ship a car cross country, I would check Ebay and craigslist. If this is the car you want, wish you all the best luck!! Really don't mean to sound bad, but GTO and Lemans dollars arent' the same, and I'm a Lemans guy.. Buy the best bang for the buck you can.


Nope, its manhatten kansas, the car is originally a texas car, so I'm sre there is little rust on it. The pics I posted were from a crappy camera phone, the paint looks more shiny in the higher quality pic he sent me. Most of the interior is original with the exception of the seats, and they look nice. I actually looked up a lemans same year same body and options and it actually booked a little lower. Look it up. Nada guids 1970 tempest 2dr hardtop with the 350 and ac. Like I said earlier in the post my bike is only worth 6300 tops, so its not like I'm paying 8 for it. As far as how it runs, and the mechanicals of it I haven't seen the car in person yet but I'm still going to look. Thanks!


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

I could rebuild the one I have to better condition for $8k, but I also have lots of parts, time, and its fun for me.  If we can get that much out of them in that shape, I better start putting mine together and hitting them with some cheap black paint.

I have a Sport LeMans I would be willing to build for you. 

I dont take much stock in what NADA says for prices. They say that my 72 Formula 455 HO is only worth 15% more than the 71 400, obviously one of them is out of whack for price. A one of 276 HO should be (and is) worth quite a bit more than a one of a few thousand Formula 400s. They say my one of 70,000+ 67 Cougar is worth almost as much as the Formula, and you are lucky to get more than $10k for most of them in nice shape. No way is it a $11k-$26k car

For some cars they are really smoking some quality something. Its like they assume any old car that is a decent driver is worth $10k, they just arent.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

Thumpin455 said:


> I could rebuild the one I have to better condition for $8k, but I also have lots of parts, time, and its fun for me.  If we can get that much out of them in that shape, I better start putting mine together and hitting them with some cheap black paint.
> 
> I have a Sport LeMans I would be willing to build for you.
> 
> ...


Ya I hear ya, but like I said I'm not paying 8 grand for it, its supposed to be a trade for my bike which is worth 6300 tops, and its prob closer to 5500, to me it don't seem like too much for that car.


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## koaffiliate (Jul 16, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> I have a question about "book" price. For one, I think all it does is give a starting point , or, maybe a ballpark idea on what a car "may" be worth. The prices that NADA, or whoever, publishes are for cars that are all original. Am I'm right? I guess that's what I've always assumed. Condition would play a huge role obviously. Any mods, depending on how they are done, can either raise or lower the value of the car. Seen some modded cars go for big bucks. If low book is $5300, that doesn't mean a rusted piece of junk is automatically worth low book. It seems that some people think that. I'm not refering to the OP or any forum member. Just some car guys(?) outside our forum arena.
> 
> Am I on track on how book values work for vintage cars, or, am I way off base? I feel this info could be valueable for a number of people including myself.... Thoughts?


No nada states that a low retail vehicle would be a deterioated original or a very poor ameture resto, some "daily drivers" would fall in this category. It must be running needing only minor refurbishing. This price does not reflect a "parts car".

Average condition would be a older resto or a well maintained original, and everything must be in working order a "20 footer".

I figure that the car has gotta be somehwere in between.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I had some kid walk by tonight liking my 90 454 SS. I said $8K, he said $4K. I laughed as it has a gear vendor OD and all the junk. I told him, a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it... Book values don't amount to squat if you can't get it. An awesome Pro Touring Tempest may be worth more than a stock GTO. Erics car, if it were a Lemans would be worth as much as it is as a real GTO, as nothing is stock anyway. As is Crusty's car. $30K in receipts and a car that is current adds value over a neglected original. Money is tight, and there are a bunch of sellers out there, get the best deal you can.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

I hear all of you about the heat today. It is a steam bath here, but still not the "close the Fing door" hot like it gets back in St Louis. No A/C in the middle of summer in the south, is what kept me skinny when I was young, I think

I might like the GT37 455 better then a 1970 GTO. Might


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

koaffiliate said:


> No nada states that a low retail vehicle would be a deterioated original or a very poor ameture resto, some "daily drivers" would fall in this category. It must be running needing only minor refurbishing. This price does not reflect a "parts car".
> 
> Average condition would be a older resto or a well maintained original, and everything must be in working order a "20 footer".
> 
> I figure that the car has gotta be somehwere in between.


I guess I should have clarified "original or resto original". I lumped the 2 together........

Like Jet said, "it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it". Maybe sell your Harley outright and have cash inhand so you're not limited to just trades....


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