# 1969 LeMans Production Question



## ponycar1967 (Jan 14, 2015)

I have a 1969 LeMans Convertible with a manual 4 speed on the floor. I can research and see how many convertibles were made that year and how many total LeMans came with a manual transmission. I'd really like to know how many 1969 convertibles were made with a manual transmission. Any ideas on where to find such numbers?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

ponycar1967 said:


> I have a 1969 LeMans Convertible with a manual 4 speed on the floor. I can research and see how many convertibles were made that year and how many total LeMans came with a manual transmission. I'd really like to know how many 1969 convertibles were made with a manual transmission. Any ideas on where to find such numbers?


I don't think you will be able to break it down that exacting. Did you get the PHS documents to confirm that it was indeed ordered from the factory as a 4-speed optioned car and not the base 3-speed? Easy enough to swap.


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## ponycar1967 (Jan 14, 2015)

PontiacJim said:


> I don't think you will be able to break it down that exacting. Did you get the PHS documents to confirm that it was indeed ordered from the factory as a 4-speed optioned car and not the base 3-speed? Easy enough to swap.









I have this. It matches the VIN. I is an original owner(stayed in one family) car. My buddy left it to me after his battle with Pancreatic Cancer. He knew all there was to know about the car, but like everything else in life I regret not documenting more of what he knew. We talked many times about video taping everything, but unfortunately time beat us. i just want to restore it like he had wished and treat it well until I can pass it on. I am not sure of what the PHS is. Thanks


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PHS is Pontiac Historical Services. You can order the factory documents for your car, ie the build sheet and options. This will tell you much about the car which allows you to document what your car had on it from the factory and verify such things as your VIN engine/trans/rear axle codes, etc.. A must have to authenticate your car. Click here: PHS Automotive Services, Inc.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Is the convert a 350HO equipped car?

Production numbers are available on the '69 350HO cars, thanks to the tireless efforts of Pontiac's own Fred Simmonds compiling the numbers in the late '80's. Below are the numbers, I have.


First, number of '69 Pontiac 350 HO's in Abodys :
1445 manual (3spd & 4spd)
2800: Auto (TH400, if like '69 Birds) 
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4245 total '69 350 HO Abody usage.

Specific '69 production w 359HO:

Tempest 2-door coupe: 85
Tempest 4-door sedan: 10

Custom S 2-door coupe: 87
Custom S 2-door hardtop: 597 
Custom S 4-door hardtop: 30
Custom S 2-door ragtop: 45
Custom S 4-door sedan: 55

LeMans 2-door coupe: 117
LeMans 2-door hardtop: 2,687
LeMans 4-door hardtop: 254
LeMans 2-door ragtop: 271

When one looks at the above production numbers, there is no exact number for 4spd manual tran '69 LeMans verts. BUT, understanding at the time, a '69 LeMans Vert cost nearly the same as a '69 GTO convert, most buyers bought the manual trans '69 GTO convert. Combining that knowledge with the fact the manual trans 350HO was basically 1 of 3 '69 350HO's, the number gets smaller. Just a guess, but I doubt if 50 factory 350HO 4spd converts were built. 

Last, if your '69 LeMans Vert's PHS invoice copy does not show the 350HO engine option, instead, the car has the base 350 2bbl, the above numbers don't apply  

If thats the case... can dig out the Standard American Cars production info, & it should give a number of total synchromesh trans used in '69 Pontiac LeMans, but that won't be as accurate.


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## ponycar1967 (Jan 14, 2015)

Pinion head said:


> Is the convert a 350HO equipped car?
> 
> Production numbers are available on the '69 350HO cars, thanks to the tireless efforts of Pontiac's own Fred Simmonds compiling the numbers in the late '80's. Below are the numbers, I have.
> 
> ...


Thanks to all. As can be seen on the Sticker I posted above the car came with and still has the 350 2 bbl combination.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

ponycar1967, Hopefully, the above production number info can help a later inquiry.
The only other numbers that are avail were published in the early '80's. 
The following is from Standard Catelogue of American Cars. 

1969 Pontiac (237 series) LeMans:

"A total of 100,001 LeMans produced, 6303 had syncromesh (man transmission). 
93,698 had automatic attachments"

Unfortunately, there will not be an exact number for the '69 LeMans convert built with syncromesh, so only crude estimations can be made.

6303 less 1445 (350HO usage) leaves 4858 237 series LeMans built with syncromesh with the 350 2bbl or OHC6/Sprint6. IF one was to further apply this percentage of production (4.858%) to the number of '69 LeMans converts built (5,676), one would end up with aprox 276 syncromesh LeMans converts built with either the 350 2bbl, OHC-6, or Sprint6. Though the process to get down to 276, is only math, & the number is not correct, it gives a guestimate as to how few 237 series convertibles were made with manual trans.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

That window sticker looks like a reproduction. As such, you can have it produced to say whatever you want it to. The PHS print out will tell you for sure.


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## ponycar1967 (Jan 14, 2015)

Pinion head said:


> ponycar1967, Hopefully, the above production number info can help a later inquiry.
> The only other numbers that are avail were published in the early '80's.
> The following is from Standard Catelogue of American Cars.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the help. I was trying to do %'s on what was available but my brain just got to tired.


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## ponycar1967 (Jan 14, 2015)

chuckha62 said:


> That window sticker looks like a reproduction. As such, you can have it produced to say whatever you want it to. The PHS print out will tell you for sure.


Thanks Chuck, this is true. However my buddy's older brother bought the car new in Commack, NY. He joined the AF and his father took over payments. Later when my friend graduated from college and also joined the AF he bought it from his dad. My buddy had it for the past 40+ years until his passing. Other than routine maintenance the only thing he changed on it was the hood...in fact the car remained in Commack until about 3 weeks ago when I finally drove it down South. The dent in the left rear quarter is still there from when his brother backed into something. This car is exactly like the sticker above, no doubt it was produced from the original specs.


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