# start up day



## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

Gonna give it a try today.
Nervous but excited.
Stay tuned
thanks all for the fantastic help
:cheers
TK


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

wow we are on parallel builds Top, i am dropping and hopefully firing mine today also....good luck bud:cheers


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

WOW. 
Good luck to you Instg!!!! :cheers
all I have to do is pull it out in the driveway and put in my 6 gallons of 100LL AVGAS.
And make wifey a pot when she wakes up (it's "her car")
takes another sip of Becks and goes back to bed 'till the rain stops.
:cheers  :cheers


TK


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

wish thats alll i had to do....LOL, have it hovering over the bay now, just waiting on my motor guy to get here....take a vid clip when you get her running Top....


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I learned...... after puttin' it back together and restarting there are tweaks and adjustments.... pesky leaks, proper tuning.... man it didn't do this before now it does and visa versa..... Its a grab your heart moment.... but after tweaking re-tweaking and adjusting it turns out....... boy am I glad I did it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

:cheers Congrats you two! I'm still out of town on a business trip but will be back home tomorrow. I expect to find video of two healthy Pontiacs when I get home.... arty:


Beasr


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes indeed, Congrats!!! A nervous moment with a lot of trepidation, anxiety, fears, and worries, but about as good as it gets. Have fun.


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

well hell, it didnt start. so I callled my "duty old person" that's (in my book supposed to know everything)
I need a new battery, even jumping it with my 6 cyl jeep cherokee,didnt make enough oomph to start it .
Im getting a real weak spark.
He said it needs to spin faster.new motor and all
stay tuned..........


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Wah, wah, wahhhhhh....... Hopefully, the new battery does it...arty:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

engine is in the bay wrestled with header bolts most of the afternoon, one more to go, man there is 0 clearance on the rear mid bolt need a 45 degree open end, may have to heat and bend one of mine, other than that it dropped right in...hopefully get it bolted up tonight and wired up tomorrow, will start a new thread as not to Hijack Tops


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

yer ok my brother.....:cheers
it's always that dam 1 bolt.......
got a new battery and will try again later ,
arty:
:seeya


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## dimitri (Feb 13, 2009)

Topkat,

Don't forget to have a fire extinguisher on hand....

Good luck


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

:willy:I got a new battery and tried again today.even jumpered in the battery on my F350. still nothing. It turns over fine and I know I have the dist hooked up properly.
Yesterday I had a weak spark. Didnt ckeck today.
I know the motor is tight from everything being new, but im not getting anything.
I wonder if the starter may play a role in this? Like it being old and not enough "oompf"?
Yesterday and today,the first turn of the starter ,it made a whirring noise and didnt turn the motor over.
As the motor was cranking I moved the distributor a bit at a time over both directions of its full motion.NOTHING
I got annoyed and pulled the dist and removed the Pertronix2 and put the stock points back in (which I know nothing of.)
still NOTHING.:confused
Im pouring gas into the carb.(not sure if the carb is pumping or even where to look to see if it is.)
NOTHING
will the stock points work with my high voltage wires and my .6 ohm coil?
Should I put the Pertronix back in?
even if I got the timing wrong, shouldnt I still be getting a VVVVVVVVVVv.......POP!!??:willy:
What now?
thanks as always


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Stop. Pull number one spark plug and look at it. Gas fouled or dry? Next get number one cylinder to TDC on compression stroke. Verify position of timing mark on balancer and position of distributor.  If ok, replace plug. Pull coil wire away from coil tower and hold it there with about 1/4" gap. Have your buddy crank the engine. Do not touch the car with your body while doing this, you could get zapped. Do you have spark?? If not, check the dwell of the points with a dwellmeter. You want 30 degrees. You need spark, fuel, and compression to light up a motor, and it all has to happen in perfect sequence. You could have an ignition problem, (dizzy in 180 out or wrong), a fuel suppply problem (fuel pump hooked up backwards, etc) or a mechanical problem (timing chain installed incorrectly). If your ignition timing is in the ballpark, your valve timing is correct and you have fuel, it should fire up in a half a turn. Sum Sing Wong.


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

It's gas fouled Gee.........:confused


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> Stop. Pull number one spark plug and look at it. Gas fouled or dry? Next get number one cylinder to TDC on compression stroke. Verify position of timing mark on balancer and position of distributor. If ok, replace plug. Pull coil wire away from coil tower and hold it there with about 1/4" gap. Have your buddy crank the engine. Do not touch the car with your body while doing this, you could get zapped. Do you have spark?? If not, check the dwell of the points with a dwellmeter. You want 30 degrees. You need spark, fuel, and compression to light up a motor, and it all has to happen in perfect sequence. You could have an ignition problem, (dizzy in 180 out or wrong), a fuel suppply problem (fuel pump hooked up backwards, etc) or a mechanical problem (timing chain installed incorrectly). If your ignition timing is in the ballpark, your valve timing is correct and you have fuel, it should fire up in a half a turn. Sum Sing Wong.


:agree One thing you don't want to do is grind and grind and grind on the starter ---- on a fresh motor that's a good way to wipe out the cam. If it's not lighting off almost immediately, then indeed "sum sing wong". Back to the basics. Verify you're getting spark. Don't check anything else until you're positive you have spark. Plugs wet with fuel, so you're probably getting fuel. Got spark and fuel and still no work-y, time to check distributor indexing. Remove the driver's side valve cover, position timing marks on the balancer to TDC with both valves on #1 cylinder (front drivers side) CLOSED. (TDC on exhaust stroke will have #1 exhaust valve open). With #1 at TDC compression stroke, verify the distributor contact on the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire. (If not, you can either pull the dizzy and reposition or just rewire the cap so that #1 is aligned with the rotor, then rewire from there following the firing sequence in a counterclockwise direction). If you've got spark, fuel, correct alignment - then it WILL start and run unless you didn't install the tming chain correctly (and you actually have two chances to have gotten that right) or misadjusted the valves -really- badly.

Have faith and be patient. It's just an enigne, not something hard like a computer.

Bear


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## firecatsrt (Sep 15, 2008)

I had same issue when trying to start mine for the first time, ended up being a loose wire from starter to distributor. got it straightened out and it scared the bejeezus out of me when it fired, haha. good luck, I hope you find your gremlin!


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

i always static time a fresh engine to ensure fast start up. here is how i do it. set timing marks on the balancer at 6 btdc at no 1 tdc verified by feeling for compression. then turn on the key and loosen the distributor clamp. put an old spark plug in the no 1 wire and ground it to the engine. you should now be able to rotate the dist by hand and trigger a spark in the no 1 spark plug wire. if not you are off somewhere. tighten the dist at the exact point it sparks and you are within a couple degrees of perfect. it saves a lot of guesswork at the most critical time of startup for a new cam.


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

Im gonna put the pertroix back in. at least I know i was getting a spark with it.
 whats a dizzy?
with #1 out and tapping the starter with my finger in the hole, my finger should get blown out as the timing mark approches TDC on Comp?
wire from the dist to starter? I have 12VDC on the coil.
I didnt have anything done to the heads but hot tanked....makes me wonder.
I couldnt adjust them as you guys advised. I just set them to 20lbs ,rotated the motor about 120 and did 20 2 more times. I never did actually actually verify all the valves opening and closing,while rotating the moror by hand. other than 1 :confused
I know I got the timing gears in correctly.
thanks


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Topkat said:


> Im gonna put the pertroix back in. at least I know i was getting a spark with it.[/quoate]
> 
> That would be a good thing. If the plugs are badly fouled then they might need cleaning too.
> 
> [quoste] whats a dizzy?


Sorry.... "dizzy" = distributor



> with #1 out and tapping the starter with my finger in the hole, my finger should get blown out as the timing mark approches TDC on Comp?


Yep



> wire from the dist to starter? I have 12VDC on the coil.


If you're getting spark, then you know all of that's good.



> I didnt have anything done to the heads but hot tanked....makes me wonder. I couldnt adjust them as you guys advised. I just set them to 20lbs ,rotated the motor about 120 and did 20 2 more times. I never did actually actually verify all the valves opening and closing,while rotating the moror by hand. other than 1 :confused


That 20 ft lbs setting is correct for factory rocker studs, rockers, and ball nuts - only. For each one it's advised that you torque it only when you're sure the lifter on that valve is on the cam base circle, othewise valve spring tension could give you a false torque reading. Setting them all will require two complete crank revolutions, 90 degrees at a time. Start when you see #1 exhaust valve just starting to open, then set #1 INTAKE. Do each intake valve in firing order sequence just as you see the corresponding exhaust valve starting to open. (or the pushrod just starting to rise). Once you've set all the intakes, start over on the exhaust valves in the same sequence - setting each one as you see the intake valve on that cylinder just beginning to CLOSE (pushrod just beginning to fall).



> I know I got the timing gears in correctly.
> thanks


Good deal. You'll get there.

Bear


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

thanks guys.
so I can just pull the cap and rewire starting with #1 wire at whereever the rotor is pointing?
does #1 cyl still need to be TDC on comp? (yes im that dense)
I would like verify that all the valve are opening and closing.These heads sad on the floor for 16 years
thanks again


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Topkat said:


> thanks guys.
> so I can just pull the cap and rewire starting with #1 wire at whereever the rotor is pointing?
> does #1 cyl still need to be TDC on comp?


Yes you can and yes it does. Make for certain that you're at TDC compression, not TDC exhaust, then wherever the rotor tip points is where #1 plug wire goes. Next in counter-cliockwise direction will be where #8 goes, then #4 --- and so on in firing order sequence. The only "bad" thing that can happen is if you wind up with #1 in a spot different from factory, some of the plug wire lengths could be "off".



> I would like verify that all the valve are opening and closing.These heads sad on the floor for 16 years
> thanks again


Age doesn't hurt them as long as they're not all rusted up, valves making good seal to the seats, guides not loose or leaking, springs, rockers, and associated all in good shape...

You should be able to see them all opening/closing as you go through the sequence for the rocker nuts.

Bear


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

I removed all the plugs and had wifey crank the motor slowely
At some point when the timing mark was not in view my finger blew out.
I tried again and my finger blew out as the mark was very close to Zero.(removed the cap and the rotor was indeed 180 out)
thanks in advance


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

NO. Nothing trumps the compression stroke. It needs to be on TDC on the compression stroke, the timing marks must line up, and the rotor must line up with number one on the cap. You may need to pull a valve cover to verify TDC Compression stroke and that your timing chain is installed correctly. IF all is good, the two valves on number one will be closed when all the other components are "lined up".


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

I just pulled the valve cover and both valves on #1 were closed............POSITIVELY
here's the pic of my timing gears
my finger may not have been in the same way both times(dam finger lol)
thanks


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Topkat said:


> I just pulled the valve cover and both valves on #1 were closed............POSITIVELY
> here's the pic of my timing gears
> my finger may not have been in the same way both times(dam finger lol)
> thanks


OK that's good --- also, with #1 approaching TDC exhaust you're not going to get any "finger blow" at all because the exhaust valve is open at that point. You'll only feel compression/blow on the compression stroke. Your earlier post said wtih #1 at TDC compression your distributor was 180 out ---- she no gonna run dat way, no way. So if that's what you've got it's time to either pull and re-orient the distributor or re-wire the cap accordingly. 

Me, I'd just re-wire the cap long enough to start the motor and break in the cam, then I'd go ahead and re-orient the distributor (and then put the wires back where they're "supposed" to be).

Bear


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