# Power question



## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

If you forge the bottom end of an LS2 and add a nice set of aftermarket heads is it possible to get over 700 rwhp by adding a TVS 2300 or twin turbo?


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

With a properly built bottom end, it's up to you how much power you want with a turbo. You won't need two to make 700.


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm making 515 on an N/A built engine, so yes, 200 extra HP would be easy to get... If your willing to part ways with some hard earned cash!

I'd ask my 2 main people what to do, since this is somthing I'm considering myself. 

I'd ask my tuner: how much boost do I need to make _____ HP and _____ Torqe at the wheels? What is my target overall compression? Do I need racing fuel or can I do this with pump gas?

Then I'd ask my engine builder:
What set up do I need to run ____ PSI (the amount of boost my tuner told me)? Will it be able to handle ____ HP and ____ Torqe? 

after you ask those questions, you'll have a good idea of everything you'll need in your low end.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks guys!

motoristx,what mods got you over 500rwhp NA?

edit:No need motoristx because I saw your list in another thread.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

Ask how much air you need to flow to make xxx hp and xxx trq. Boost is just a measure of restriction and has nothing to do with power. You want the lowest amount of boost you can at xxx amount of power to be efficient.

You'll run a low compression so you'll be fine on pump gas. That's part of the beauty of turbos, race gas is not a must.

To get an idea of the size you'll need go to a site like Precision Turbo and they list the power range for each turbo.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

06gtoin216 said:


> Ask how much air you need to flow to make xxx hp and xxx trq. Boost is just a measure of restriction and has nothing to do with power. You want the lowest amount of boost you can at xxx amount of power to be efficient.
> 
> You'll run a low compression so you'll be fine on pump gas. That's part of the beauty of turbos, race gas is not a must.
> 
> To get an idea of the size you'll need go to a site like Precision Turbo and they list the power range for each turbo.


Not sure if I'll go with turbo or TVS yet.It will be a long while before I can do either since I want to do all the supporting mods needed for a safe setup.

I will check out Precision Turbo for info.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

ROBSGTO said:


> If you forge the bottom end of an LS2 and add a nice set of aftermarket heads is it possible to get over 700 rwhp by adding a TVS 2300 or twin turbo?


Yes w/TVS2300. Advisable to drop the compression ratio down some too. Head studs would be a good idea. Boost is addicting, so a stong foundation is a must.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Yes w/TVS2300. Advisable to drop the compression ratio down some too. Head studs would be a good idea. Boost is addicting, so a stong foundation is a must.


Excuse the dumb question,but I really don't know much about this stuff.

Why would it be advisable to drop the compression ratio down?

A friend put a Kenne Bell on his 2010 Camaro and was over 570 at the wheels and decided to go to a smaller pulley upping power to over 700rwhp and he popped the motor with under 5000 miles on it.I'm not crazy enough or made of money to risk it without building a foundation.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

ROBSGTO said:


> Excuse the dumb question,but I really don't know much about this stuff.
> 
> Why would it be advisable to drop the compression ratio down?
> 
> A friend put a Kenne Bell on his 2010 Camaro and was over 570 at the wheels and decided to go to a smaller pulley upping power to over 700rwhp and he popped the motor with under 5000 miles on it.I'm not crazy enough or made of money to risk it without building a foundation.


Pressure, reliability, adding more boost and without using race gas is the advantage of lowering C/R. You can only go so high with 91/93 octane gas on boost. I'm not going to get into the static/dynamic C/R because I'm limited on that

Notice on OEM FI motors they run around with 8.5 to 9.5:1 C/R. On the stock LS1/2 motors the most I've seen is around 12psi. TVS2300 is a large SC it moves alot of air one of the reasons why its highly advisable to forge the motor.

That much power on a stock Camaro is crazy, it has hyper pistons with 10.x:1 C/R.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Note that if you want to do a TVS series blower, you need at least L92 heads, cathedrals won't work.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I think there is two people maybe more(steel chicken and whoever else) on the other forum that has TVS blowers on LS1 motors with GENIII heads. Magnachargers site don't specify that you need L92 heads for ls1/2 motors.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

That was always my impression. Steel Chicken doesn't come off as a very helpful/friendly guy anyways. I seem to remember him being one of the primary people tearing into me with personal attacks when I asked about heat in a Chevy Volt...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I rearly go onto that forum. I've popped my head in there a few times in the past few weeks. I haven't been in there in months. I've PM Steel Chicken a few times in the past asking about his car and he has been pretty helpful to me.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Yeah I don't know why he decided to hate on me, probably because my post count wasn't high enough, or my join date wasn't far back enough to be cool or something. Whatever, his attitude is one of the reasons I'm here instead of there.


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## GoldenGoat (Mar 10, 2011)

OP why not a Procharger D1-SC as opposed to Turbo or TVS?

Guys I don't know the feller Ya'll are talking about but it is no use being ugly to others. :seeya:


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> Yeah I don't know why he decided to hate on me, probably because my post count wasn't high enough, or my join date wasn't far back enough to be cool or something. Whatever, his attitude is one of the reasons I'm here instead of there.


I think alot of folks have the internet tough guy syndrome. Once you pull them to the side and ask them questions they can be helpful. If they are (fill in whatever you like) to you thru PM then they are truly __________.


GoldenGoat said:


> OP why not a Procharger D1-SC as opposed to Turbo or TVS?


Magnachargers are hands down the most reliable FI you can go with and least you have to maintain. I like the centrifigual S/C's and concidered going with one while I was in the market. Having to change the oil in the headunit every 5k or so miles and not seeing one and driving one in person I went the maggie route. Depends on my plans and funds after we comeback from the UK I make go with a huge custom Procharger or Vortec hung off of a 402ci engine.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GoldenGoat said:


> OP why not a Procharger D1-SC as opposed to Turbo or TVS?
> 
> Guys I don't know the feller Ya'll are talking about but it is no use being ugly to others. :seeya:


That was an option I had considered,but really don't know enough about them.

How do they compare to say the TVS 2300 power wise?


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

ROBSGTO said:


> That was an option I had considered,but really don't know enough about them.
> 
> How do they compare to say the TVS 2300 power wise?


Tvs has the torque down low, procharger has Hp up top. More like a turbo than a roots blower. Imo Tvs 2300 hands down for useable power down low and great improvements from idle to redline.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Don't they still make MP122's? I kinda liked the older models better, they made a lot more whine.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> Don't they still make MP122's? I kinda liked the older models better, they made a lot more whine.


More whine,but less power.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

06gtoin216 said:


> Tvs has the torque down low, procharger has Hp up top. More like a turbo than a roots blower. Imo Tvs 2300 hands down for useable power down low and great improvements from idle to redline.


I think I'd like the great torque down low along with big power up top.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Thats where most people spend most of their time. It's not to say that roots don't make power up top because they do. They have a more broader torque band than anyother S/C. The ZR1 makes 638hp about the 6500rpm redline and seems to keep pulling. Its just centrifugals concentrate more power on the higher end than the lower end.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Might as well go turbo then, why waste mechanical energy on boost up top with a belt drive...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> Might as well go turbo then, why waste mechanical energy on boost up top with a belt drive...


Yeah. Tell you what, race a S/C GTO and post back the results on how much mechanical energy he lost up top.
:cheers

A Subi STI learned that lesson last nite.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

GM4life said:


> Yeah. Tell you what, race a S/C GTO and post back the results on how much mechanical energy he lost up top.
> :cheers
> 
> A Subi STI learned that lesson last nite.


Sounds like he's talking about a Procharger not a roots. If so, i agree turbo>procharger.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Yep. Roots or GTFO.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

06gtoin216 said:


> Sounds like he's talking about a Procharger not a roots. If so, i agree turbo>procharger.


Just giving him a hard time, all systems have their pros/cons.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

For FI,is it best to stay with the stock cubes or would it be better to go with a stroker?

The reason I ask is when it comes time to forge my bottom end it would seem wise to just go ahead and stroke it while I'm in there unless a stroker isn't optimal for FI.

Also I've heard if I just want to just forge and not stroke it, all I need to replace are the pistons and rods.Any opinions on this?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

You can go stroker and FI. Its just better to lower the compression if you want to go with a 'blower' motor. I saw a video on youtube yesterday a LSX 427 with a TVS2300 put down 900+rwhp and 1000tq.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> You can go stroker and FI. Its just better to lower the compression if you want to go with a 'blower' motor. I saw a video on youtube yesterday a LSX 427 with a TVS2300 put down 900+rwhp and 1000tq.


The reason too that I thought of stroking it while forging it was that it may be a few years after the forging/stroking before I can afford the blower so I'd have a nice NA motor until then.

Got an opinion on just changing out the pistons and rods when forging?

Thanks!


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Been reading up on the Procharger F-1D a little bit,anyone know of this Procharger option?Looks to be better at delivering torque sooner in the powerband than the F-1.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

ROBSGTO said:


> The reason too that I thought of stroking it while forging it was that it may be a few years after the forging/stroking before I can afford the blower so I'd have a nice NA motor until then.
> 
> Got an opinion on just changing out the pistons and rods when forging?
> 
> Thanks!


Just wait, and do it all at once. Why take the car down twice, take it down one time.


ROBSGTO said:


> Been reading up on the Procharger F-1D a little bit,anyone know of this Procharger option?Looks to be better at delivering torque sooner in the powerband than the F-1.


In one of my mags this guy had a F-1C on his GTO.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Just wait, and do it all at once. Why take the car down twice, take it down one time.


I do plan on forging and adding heads at the same time.I just won't be able to afford FI at that time.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

If I do not drag race,but do occasional roll races in Mexico would a Procharger be better than a TVS?


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## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

is it the procharger that needs to be maintained every 5K miles? according to my understanding the procharger is a way to go, unles you want to build the motor over 800hp, is my understanding correct?


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