# 1969 Pontiac lemans



## Ramon (Jun 2, 2021)

I have a 1969 Pontiac lemans that I’m trying to register, it’s been 33 years since it’s been registered and the chp wants to see the vin numbers which i can’t find. Can anyone help out, thank you


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Ramon said:


> I have a 1969 Pontiac lemans that I’m trying to register, it’s been 33 years since it’s been registered and the chp wants to see the vin numbers which i can’t find. Can anyone help out, thank you


 VIN should be visible through the windshield, its on the dash/drivers side.

Then there is a partial VIN that can be found on the engine block, transmission, and back on the frame - driver's side rail just a few inches past the wheel well arch radius and may be on the outside of the rail, but it could be on top too. You may have to really clean up the frame at this area to see it.


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## Ramon (Jun 2, 2021)

Thank you, the chp just had me take apart the a/c core which was alot of work and said he was confident it would be there and it wasn’t. Should it be there


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Ramon said:


> Thank you, the chp just had me take apart the a/c core which was alot of work and said he was confident it would be there and it wasn’t. Should it be there


No, that is for Mopar products. Frame rail will be your best bet, but again, only a partial like the last 8 digits.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Some factories stamped the firewall under the heater HVAC housing, but not all. If you have a Fremont car (letter Z in the VIN) the frame VIN will be stamped on top of the rail. I think Baltimore was the only factory that didn't stamp the frame until later. 
You will need a mirror to check after you clean with a Scotchbrite pad.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

OK, more info. My '68 Lemans was built in Baltimore. The partial VIN is stamped on the outside of the frame, but may not be the normal as most seem to be on top.

Sifting through the past posts, I found this:

There will be no VIN stamped on the cowl face under the heater box or AC box, of a Fremont build. 

If built out of the Baltimore plant, there should be a partial VIN stamping behind the heater or AC box. Baltimore plant was the first to start doing that on A-bodys. (Not sure what year this began, but the post was in reference to a 1969 GTO. Never checked on my '68, but never looked either. I will have to check. - PJ)

On a Fremont build, the partial VIN stamp on the frame, the stamping on at least '67-72 Pontiac A-bodys is on top of the LH rear frame rail in an area above aprox where the tail pipe hanger attaches. One can carefully remove the 3 body mount mount bolts starting with the one near the seat belt retractor, then the one below the trunk floor, and finally the one at the rear corner of the frame. After removal of these three body bolts, can usually jack up the body enough to be able to use a piece of sandpaper or a very small wire bruch on top of the frame rail frame centered between those two rear body bolts. With a mirror and a flashlight, should be able to see the partial VIN.

FINALLY, SOME PICS that will help you as to location. Click on the link below:









68 gto vin


Hi guys I know vin questions have been asked a million times but my searches came up empty. I'm contemplating purchasing a 68 gto that's in less than good condition. I want to make sure it's not been stolen or had the numbers tampered with. The dash vin corresponds to the info on the body tag...




www.gtoforum.com


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Good to know Jim. I based my answer on what I had read on the Chevelle forum. You would think they would be consistent between the makes built at the same plant.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

O52 said:


> Good to know Jim. I based my answer on what I had read on the Chevelle forum. You would think they would be consistent between the makes built at the same plant.


Agreed, it can be confusing and I don't think anyone could ever claim to be an "expert" on any 1 year or factory. From all the years here and reading assorted articles, there are exceptions and rules don't always follow the pattern intended.

I suppose some of it is that GM, as well as other makes, used an assortment of vendors to keep parts flowing. Fisher built the bodies, so they had an assortment of parts manufacturers and suppliers. No doubt they never had all their eggs in one basket because if one of the manufacturers or vendors dropped the ball, it would stall out production and that would surely be a bad thing.

You also have to take into account various worker strikes over the years. Parts may have been meddled with out of spite, maybe when start-up began again you just grabbed some parts just to get the assembly line going ASAP without regard to a build sheet, and of course, executive and custom factory builds that may have been fudged a bit so certain add-on parts or accessories could be put on the desired build.

(Side note - I was told that when they had the Firebird strike in 1972 at Norwood, that when the strike was over near years end that there was a big push to get the cars out the door and corners were cut. One thing noted was that the bodies did not get undercoating in an effort to save time and meet some kind of production. They had to scrap 1,1000 assorted bodies as they did not make the deadline before the new model year cars were introduced. "The massive General Motors strike that began on April 6, 1972, and lasted 174 days. Nearly 1,100 early April built cars were scrapped due to the lengthy strike and mandatory changes for 1973." This may be true as I looked at a '72 Formula 400 I was offered, and just over 5,000 Formula's were made. The body was rotting from the inside out and in my opinion would need a body donor. I could get it cheap, but another project like that was not needed - I passed.)

Then we all know that it seems each plant had their own way of doing paperwork and noting accessories. I too don't understand why there wasn't simply 1 format and all plants used the same program. But maybe using differing formats made it easier to ID "that" assembly plant or "that" body builder - so easier tracking should a problem or defective part crop up. It may simply be the way of big business - GM is the parent company, then you have your assorted divisions (Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, etc,), then these are further broken down into manufacturing plants (final assembly line), and Fisher (bodies). Each was viewed as a separate company and had to show profit/losses or gross vs net, and all this then reflected on the parent company GM at the end of the year. So if you had 1 division showing losses, you can put that against another division showing profit and balance the numbers accordingly. It can also be an insurance deal where if one division was hit with some big lawsuit, it did not have affect on any other division. The company I work for does just this - we have sales, service, and parts and each is a separate entity and each has to take out of the "gross" income all the employee wages, medical, electricity, water, equipment purchases/repairs, etc. and at the end of each month when all this is tabulated, it shows the true "net" that the department actually made in profits. So corporate wants to see 140K gross for the month from the service department, but when all is paid out, our net is only 45K - which is the profits. Same for each department.

So there is a lot more involved in running any such big business and I don't think any single person can ever claim to "know" that they know all. At best, we can have a lot of accuracy and certainty using figures/numbers that were either published publicly or documents saved such as the PHS grouping. So in my opinion, there can never be an "expert", just an enthusiast or historical researcher who has a lot more facts than others because it is his/her passion - and even then there will be incorrect facts/assumptions.


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