# twin turbo vs. supercharger



## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

I have been fighting between the twin turbo and a supercharger. Im not really concerned about the price differance just the power differance. So with a twin turbo what parts would i be loosing compared to a supercharger. What bolt-ons can i have with a twin turbo vs. supercharger. Can you guys help me out please!??


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Dude, I am battling the same thing in my mind. Bottom line that I got from the mod shop is, the supercharger will give you less horsepower but will be more reliable horsepower that will last pretty much the life an expected LS2 is supposed to last. So if you got an everyday driver goat to take to work and back like I do, the supercharger (maggie) looks way more promising. If you've got more then one car and just take the goat out on occasions to rip holes in concrete I've been told the twin turbo is the way to go.
Dustin.


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

So what about other bolt ons such as headers and intake things like that.


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## SloTymer (Sep 16, 2005)

Dude I was stationed @ Ft. Bragg many moon & a lifetime ago. Is Hay St. still X-rated?? (full of nude bars and hookers)?


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

im not sure, but im pretty sure i just got her recently and just now starting to get my feet wet.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

dustyminpin said:


> the supercharger will give you less horsepower


That's an incorrect statement. A supercharger can give you as much hp as a twin turbo and vice versus depending on how far you want to push the envelope. Here's a database that was started by a member on LS1GTO.com; 

*http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126047&highlight=post+rwhp* 

The bottom line is where do you draw the line? But this decision of which one to choose is something I choose not to get into because there are so many variables that only the person who decides to get either can make. 

Some questions you need to ask and answer yourself are;
1. How much do you want to spend?
2. How much power are you planning to gain.
3. Do you want a kit that is easily upgradable if you want more power?
4. How do you plan on driving your car?
5. Do you want a fun street car or are you going to see a lot of track time?
6. Do you want a kit that is easy to install by yourself or do you plan on paying labor/install cost on top of the kit's cost?
7. How much will supporting mods cost and how many will I need?
8. Am I ready to spent big bucks to upgrade the suspension and driveline to support the extra power because extra power means nothing if I can't get it to the ground?

So as you can see, you need to answer a few questions yourself. Another thing that will help you decide is to get a ride in cars with different FI set ups. And that can be done by joining different GTO forums and locate someone near you and see if you can set up a ride with them. I would be more than happy to give you a ride if you lived near me.

Good luck deciding. Hopefully when you choose and purchase one, you won't second guess yourself and think you made the wrong decision. :cheers


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## goatfarmer (Jun 6, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> That's an incorrect statement. A supercharger can give you as much hp as a twin turbo and vice versus depending on how far you want to push the envelope. Here's a database that was started by a member on LS1GTO.com;
> 
> *http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126047&highlight=post+rwhp*
> 
> ...


+1 You will need to be atleast a little versed in turbos and their upkeep along w/ the supporting mods and their up keep if you go that route. As well as properly building boost and having tune issues arise unexpectedly (I know not all do this so calm down). As far as either of the two...Supercharger is the easiest and most reliable. The reason it has been said that they produce less HP is because THEY DO...but only if you buy the cheapest setup and put it on a stock engine. APS twin turbo makes a good bit more HP with their cheapest package on just 7-8 psi. But you CAN get the same HP out of a Supercharger through the pulley swaps, etc. As far as the Supercharger it is best to have Longtubes. For the turbos, boost builds better w/ the lesser flowing Stock manifolds. A maggie has been proven the most reliable and the procharger has claimed to make the most HP. But regardless it is like previously quoted...find your goal, make a decision, and stick w/ it. But make a sound decision. TOO MANY guys build power in the engine and forget the rest of the car until something breaks. 
MY .02..forge the engine and drivetrain first. Then save to do FI. But everyone has his/her own opinion.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

All I can say is be ready to spend more money than you expected. Here's a little run down of how I got to where I'm at.

I contemplated for months on making my car more powerful than stock. I was really thinking hard about a head/cam package (*bluhaven* can attest to that). All I had at the time was the LPE CAI, JBA shorties and MagnaFlow catback *($1529 excluding shipping costs)*. Then I started learning more about superchargers so I bought the Maggie (*$5412* shipped to my door). While the Maggie was being shipped I decided to get the JBA mids with high flow cats (*$250-excluding shipping cost)* because TByrne was having a special on all JBA products. Once I was done installing the sc and mids I got the ride tuned for *$500*. At that moment I was at *453/432 to the wheels at 5.5 psi boost* on a safe tune. Yeah I was cool with that but believe it or not, I got used to the power and it didn't feel that impressive anymore. So I decided to add a 2.7" pulley *($109-excluding shipping cost)* and got another tune (*$400*- I went to another shop that had more experience tuning GTOs). That put me at my current set up of *501/481 to the wheels at 8 psi boost*. That's just at 600hp/566tq at the crank. Well guess what? The stock clutch is catching hell handling the added power. So yesterday, I purchased a Textralia EXOSKEL2 clutch, flywheel, flywheel bolts and slave cylinder *($1424 plus shipping)*. I'm also picking up a new throwout and pilot bearing, rear main seal and rear main seal gasket- may as well check these parts out and replace them if necessary while the clutch is removed. These parts will cost no more than *$100*. *Once the clutch is done do you think I'll be done? That will be a big HELL NO!!* I will be in the market for a cam package to help the Maggie in the mid to upper rpms. I've already done some pricing and all the parts plus install, unless I do it myself, will be between *$1500 and $2000*. ANNNNNDDDDD, I'm going to upgrade the driveline because we know that the stock components were not designed to withstand all the added torque that I have. I'm putting out 450rwtq at 2800 rpms so it's just a matter of time before I break something. I don't do a lot of track time so I'm a little safe right now but I know something will eventually break. Driveshaft, halfshafts and stub axles will be right at *$3000*. And don't get me started on the price of suspension parts. JEEZ!! Do I need all these upgrades. No! It's just the nature of the beast when it comes to power upgrades. By the time I'm done with this car I will be between $15,000 and $20,000 in upgrades.  Thank God my car is paid off.


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## camcojb (Dec 23, 2005)

6QTS11OZ said:


> That's an incorrect statement. A supercharger can give you as much hp as a twin turbo and vice versus depending on how far you want to push the envelope. Here's a database that was started by a member on LS1GTO.com;


I disagree. Boost for boost a good twin turbo kit will make more power, especially when you really start spinning the blower. They eat power no doubt. The Lightning guys are picking up 100+ rwhp at the same boost with no changes other than removing their twin screw aftermarket blowers (KB) and replacing them with a single T76 turbo.

That does not mean a Maggie is crap, the Maggie will make boost quicker and have more off throttle torque. But everywhere else is stronger with turbos.

Jody


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

hey thanx i really appreciate all the information. I see it really comes down to preferance more or less. Hopefully within 3 or 4 months ill have my maggie!!!!


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## goatfarmer (Jun 6, 2006)

camcojb said:


> I disagree. Boost for boost a good twin turbo kit will make more power, especially when you really start spinning the blower. They eat power no doubt. The Lightning guys are picking up 100+ rwhp at the same boost with no changes other than removing their twin screw aftermarket blowers (KB) and replacing them with a single T76 turbo.
> 
> That does not mean a Maggie is crap, the Maggie will make boost quicker and have more off throttle torque. But everywhere else is stronger with turbos.
> 
> Jody


You are Right to an extent. A procharger can produce the same as turbos with the right setup. It will be cheaper to reach that goal w/ turbos but it can be done. Maggies are currently being released that have a better pick up w/ upgrades as well. But you will honestly not find a more dependable setup than a Maggie right now. I wish more guys would set their cars up first and then add FI. There is nothing more rewarding than a complete car w/ FI added. It will outperform any car that just adds alot of HP w/ no supporting or limited supporting mods.


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

So you guys recommend that i set up everything for fi first then get the maggie.


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

If i were to get different heads should i go with dart and get everything forged and ported


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## camcojb (Dec 23, 2005)

goatfarmer said:


> You are Right to an extent. A procharger can produce the same as turbos with the right setup.


I disagree. I've had four Procharged builds, and I enjoyed them all. But a turbo will also outperform a Procharger boost for boost. You might be surprised to see what hp it takes to spin a Procharger at boost, especially at 12+ psi. 

I know one of the Lightning guys built a Procharged setup for his truck. Made good power, but sold it and built a single turbo in it's place, and was up 80 rwhp over the Procharger, killed it at mid-range as the turbo was at full boost much earlier than the centrifugal, but even at peak power for both the turbo was 80 rwhp ahead at the exact same boost level.

The roots/screw blowers, centrifugals, and turbos all have their plusses and minuses, but the most efficient is the turbo if all are sized comparably. Unfortunately it's usually (not always) the most expensive and most time-consuming to install also.



Jody


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## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

camcojb said:


> I disagree. I've had four Procharged builds, and I enjoyed them all. But a turbo will also outperform a Procharger boost for boost. You might be surprised to see what hp it takes to spin a Procharger at boost, especially at 12+ psi.
> 
> I know one of the Lightning guys built a Procharged setup for his truck. Made good power, but sold it and built a single turbo in it's place, and was up 80 rwhp over the Procharger, killed it at mid-range as the turbo was at full boost much earlier than the centrifugal, but even at peak power for both the turbo was 80 rwhp ahead at the exact same boost level.
> 
> ...


I'm not savy enough to really get into this discussion but I was wondering why it is that the guys going after mega horsepower (such as top fuel) always use roots type blowers. I think they are way beyond 12 psi of boost. Can't a roots blower be set up to deliver as much boost as a car's particular setup will allow? -Jim


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## camcojb (Dec 23, 2005)

Cottonfarmer said:


> I'm not savy enough to really get into this discussion but I was wondering why it is that the guys going after mega horsepower (such as top fuel) always use roots type blowers. I think they are way beyond 12 psi of boost. Can't a roots blower be set up to deliver as much boost as a car's particular setup will allow? -Jim


top fuel doesn't allow turbos. NHRA just started allowing turbos in ProMod, but they are limited to certain sized turbos (twin 91mm I believe) so they are a comparable race to the blower cars. Without that restriction the turbo cars would rule the field.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

camcojb said:


> I disagree. Boost for boost a good twin turbo kit will make more power, especially when you really start spinning the blower. They eat power no doubt. The Lightning guys are picking up 100+ rwhp at the same boost with no changes other than removing their twin screw aftermarket blowers (KB) and replacing them with a single T76 turbo.
> 
> That does not mean a Maggie is crap, the Maggie will make boost quicker and have more off throttle torque. But everywhere else is stronger with turbos.
> 
> Jody


Read my post again. No where in it did I compare a s/c to a twin turbo base on boost for boost. Like I said in my first post, I did not want to get into this discussion because I knew it would become a pissing contest because of the many variables involved. *And for the record, we're not just talking about Maggie superchargers. *


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

Is there anyone near me who has a supercharger or even a turbo who wouldn't mind giving me a ride. I'm pretty sure ive made my mind up, but i would just like to see it in action. I think im gonna go maggie. Thanx guys no need to fight :cheers we are all hear for a reason to learn SH*t:willy: arty:


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## camcojb (Dec 23, 2005)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Read my post again. No where in it did I compare a s/c to a twin turbo base on boost for boost. Like I said in my first post, I did not want to get into this discussion because I knew it would become a pissing contest because of the many variables involved. *And for the record, we're not just talking about Maggie superchargers. *



sorry, I read this and thought that was what you were saying.



6QTS11OZ said:


> That's an incorrect statement. A supercharger can give you as much hp as a twin turbo and vice versus depending on how far you want to push the envelope.


No pissing contest from me, just some friendly discussion. And for the record, I give the advantage to the turbos vs any other superchargers in boost to boost power. Now the way they make boost, and how it comes in is definitely different between the different supers/turbos which can give one an advantage in certain applications. But for power period I give the nod to turbos.:cheers 

Jody


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## sniper.x611 (Jan 30, 2007)

well since we're already on the topic... I'm getting a GTO from a guy I work with, his lease is up in July. Its an 04 yellow/black A4 with <25k miles on it. Everyone is saying if your gonna mod do it right, bottom up. So whats the best order? Its gonna be a daily driver, but I like to hit the track, and im kind of a street racer.... I was thinking first: pedders street II with the one inch lower in the front and half inch in the back, professional tune or a predator (preferance?), then im kinda lost with where to go. I don't expect to ever put more than 500hp to the wheels, so are forged internals really neccesary? And as its a DD I was thinking a s/c cause the're more reliable, but are their any reliable turbo setups to boot? I don't mind the labor. Lots of questions guys help me out.
Thanks,
Tim


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

camcojb said:


> sorry, I read this and thought that was what you were saying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool! :cheers I apologize if I came off wrong. It's just that I've seen soooooo many threads on superchargers versus any turbo kit and it always get off track of the original poster's question because someone's personal/biased preference is brought up. But as you can see, even though I have a Maggie, I never said to get a Maggie. I never said to get either. I just focused on the amount of cash it's gonna take and the supporting mods that will be needed. Because all the extra power means nothing without supporting mods. 

For example - 20 pounds of boost would be very nice to run. But it would be nicer if that was on a forged bottom end, head/cam package, meth kit and an upgraded driveline. So boost is good but without other mods the engine will not run at it's full potential. All FI kits are nice. And no kit is BETTER than the next because they all have their pros and cons. What makes a kit great to an _*individual*_ is based on the kit that meets that person needs. I would never replace my Maggie no matter how much power is available in the other s/c or turbo kits. I love the new APS twin turbo kits but I've met my goals with the Maggie. When I decide to go for a little more, I'll slap that cam in and roll with it. I could crank the boost up another 1lb or 1.5lb and add a meth kit but I don't what any mod that I have to worry about running out of when I want to have fun.

It seems that *gtodude41206* has decided to go with the Maggie. If you plan on installing it yourself, please pm me if you have any questions. I can even pm you my cell phone number so I can speak to you as you're working on the car. Good luck :cheers


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## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

thanx dude


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

gtodude41206 said:


> thanx dude


Anytime :cheers . One thing I'll say about the members of this forum is no matter how we sometimes misunderstand and/or have small quarrells with each other, I don't think there is nothing that we won't do for each other... within reason


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## nottheweakwilled (Apr 22, 2007)

Mmm. Turbos.

Just a thought, on a closed circuit track, superchargers are prefered by many drivers for linear power-on. However, turbo boost can often be adjustable from the cockpit and create some massive mid-range power when spooled. Turbo vs. SC, totally different power delivery.

Another consideration is that the crank and bearings take a beating from a sc. But regardless, boost can really rock an engine. Either way boost is cool.arty:


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