# 2004 GTO Mini Build



## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

Thought i would start a Mini Build of My 2004 GTO with an Auto tranny...the goal for this car is to run low 13s (good day) on street tires and 20+ MPG as this is a daily driver

Some Specs:
2004 Pontiac GTO
LS1 350 V8 5.7L
Automatic Transmission
Stock 3:46
Color is Cosmos Purple
90k Miles

heres the car with my dad driving










Current Mods:
K&N Cold Air Intake

Exhaust:
On the way are 2 Spintech Super Pro Street Mufflers with 2 1/2 inlet & 2 1/2 outlet 

From the resonators/2nd cats (what ever the **** they are) to the tips will all be custom 2 1/2in piping thru some dual tips

Future Mods:
Port & Polish 85mm Throttle Body
85mm Unscreen (yes i know) Mass Aif Flow Sensor
Tune

I'll Keep Posting as i go...Spring is still far away


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Isn't that pretty much what they're capable of stock?


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

HP11 said:


> Isn't that pretty much what they're capable of stock?


not sure but i wouldnt imagine a 3800lbs pound car with a 90k motor running a 13.00 on street tires but not sure...its winter up here in MN so i cant go to the track and get a base run

anotherthing is during the summer it is very very humid up here so times up here can be typically slower then somewhere like colorado or south of us


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## REDGTO89 (Jul 19, 2008)

should be a cool little build


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Agenthol302 said:


> not sure but i wouldnt imagine a 3800lbs pound car with a 90k motor running a 13.00 on street tires but not sure...its winter up here in MN so i cant go to the track and get a base run
> 
> anotherthing is during the summer it is very very humid up here so times up here can be typically slower then somewhere like colorado or south of us


Here's a edit from a post on LS1GTO.com:





> LS1 Stock class:
> 
> 
> 1) Nutiger 13.025 @ 108.31
> ...


That's a combined list of M6/A4 - all in the low to lower mid 13s.

Here's the post that came from:
LS1GTO.com Forums - View Single Post - LS1 N/A Stock and Modified Classes


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

yea that goes all the way up to 13.39 which to me is not low 13's and i want it to be low 13s consistantly so ill stick with my goal of low 13's because dont know what conditions thoses other guys could have been running


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Your not going to avg 20+ with an A4. Just won't happen. Also your goals are basically for what a stock GTO can run. Just get a tune, some good tires, and work on the driver mod and your 04 should be in the low 13s all day.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

jpalamar said:


> Your not going to avg 20+ with an A4. Just won't happen. Also your goals are basically for what a stock GTO can run. Just get a tune, some good tires, and work on the driver mod and your 04 should be in the low 13s all day.


why cant i get 20+? and i just dont see a stock GTO run 13.00 consitantly...even the list the other guy put up didnt run 13.00 lol so ill stick with my goal of 13.00 with a 90k motor, a 3800lbs car, and minnesota humidity (i dont think you guy understand that weather plays a huge role in times)


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## The_Madcat (Sep 30, 2011)

Agenthol302 said:


> why cant i get 20+? and i just dont see a stock GTO run 13.00 consitantly...even the list the other guy put up didnt run 13.00 lol so ill stick with my goal of 13.00 with a 90k motor, a 3800lbs car, and minnesota humidity (i dont think you guy understand that weather plays a huge role in times)


Because the auto is only a 4 speed and the gearing isn't as nice for MPG's like the manual is with it's 6 speeds.

13.39 is in fact, low 13's, doesn't matter what ruler you are using, it is still < 13.51.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Agenthol302 said:


> (i dont think you guy understand that weather plays a huge role in times)


Here we go....recalling some of your responses in other threads, you seem to like to argue anecdotal info. Don't assume what I do or don't understand. I was just trying to give you facts rather than saying "I know someone who ran 13's" or "my uncle's friend's GTO ran...., etc. Build on, I hope you reach the low 13s, if that's all you're shooting for, however you define them.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

The_Madcat said:


> Because the auto is only a 4 speed and the gearing isn't as nice for MPG's like the manual is with it's 6 speeds.
> 
> 13.39 is in fact, low 13's, doesn't matter what ruler you are using, it is still < 13.51.


im still hoping..the car gets 17-18 right now so im thinking with better flowing exhaust and some air inlet work and a nice tune will hopefully get me 3-4 more 

and i really hope your not that guy that runs a 10.49 and then tells everyone he has a 10 second car



HP11 said:


> Here we go....recalling some of your responses in other threads, you seem to like to argue anecdotal info. Don't assume what I do or don't understand. I was just trying to give you facts rather than saying "I know someone who ran 13's" or "my uncle's friend's GTO ran...., etc. Build on, I hope you reach the low 13s, if that's all you're shooting for, however you define them.


can u please bring up some other threadS where i argue? cuz besides a CAI debate iv been nothing but one answer help to alot of questions lol. but im guessing you wont so ill just leave it at that. and yes u did give me the facts and i expressed my concerns with those facts in a nice way but u got upset for some reason. so just relax man its just the internet haha


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Agenthol302 said:


> can u please bring up some other threadS where i argue? cuz besides a CAI debate iv been nothing but one answer help to alot of questions lol. but im guessing you wont so ill just leave it at that


But *you didn't* 'just leave it at that'...so look up a thread called 'Gas and Quality'.....Oh, and I'm not upset. Like you said, it's the internet; you didn't really have to respond. Let it go.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Agenthol302 said:


> and i really hope your not that guy that runs a 10.49 and then tells everyone he has a 10 second car


That is a 10 second car. Just like a car that runs 12.9 is a 12 second car.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

HP11 said:


> But *you didn't* 'just leave it at that'...so look up a thread called 'Gas and Quality'.....Oh, and I'm not upset. Like you said, it's the internet; you didn't really have to respond. Let it go.


k so thats one but you said thread*s* as in *multiple* or *more then 1* so yea hows that going for you? :rofl:


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Agenthol302 said:


> k so thats one but you said thread*s* as in *multiple* or *more then 1* so yea hows that going for you? :rofl:


I'm not sure I get that....but good luck with your build. :cheers


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

HP11 said:


> I'm not sure I get that....but good luck with your build. :cheers


hey thanks man :cheers


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

jpalamar said:


> That is a 10 second car. Just like a car that runs 12.9 is a 12 second car.


:cheers You took the words right out of my mouth


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

got the mufflers they are spin tech super pro street 2.5" in and 2.5" out










heres the stock exhaust now



















were gunna cut out resinators and do custom 2.5" the whole way

also found out the car had a hanging piston on the front driver side caliper so the rotors we warped

ended up cutting the rotors 9 times (they were that bad) and replaced caliper and pads. rotors still measured over 25 so can still get a little more life outta it


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

First off they are called resonators like in resonate. A resinator if there were such a thing would put resin on something. 

The A4 '04 can be made to do a consistent 13 and get 20+ MPG but it will take at a minimum LT headers and tune. The mufflers and pipes won't do much for the money spent at this level of modding. I would have spent it elsewhere.

At the same time you're getting that tune it would be good to get your Lean Cruise turned on to give you a 10% highway mileage boost. 

M6s are faster but not as consistent as launches are much harder. I have a fair amount of driving skill and probably have the same weather and elevation as you. The best my M6 car would do before LTs was a 13.3 @ 105. A4s are a little slower until you get quite a few real power mods on.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

svede1212 said:


> First off they are called resonators like in resonate. A resinator if there were such a thing would put resin on something.
> 
> The A4 '04 can be made to do a consistent 13 and get 20+ MPG but it will take at a minimum LT headers and tune. The mufflers and pipes won't do much for the money spent at this level of modding. I would have spent it elsewhere.
> 
> ...


according to everyone else these cars will run 13.00 bone stock. But yea im excited for the tune...nothing is worth the money unless there is a tune to make it run to its full potential


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## GuatoLT1 (Jul 22, 2009)

13.00 flat bone stock?????? for an 04 A4????

2004 Pontiac GTO - First Drive & Road Test Review - Motor Trend

Read this my friend. Motor trend ran a 13.62 1/4 mile with a manual, and not to mention thats a professional driver. So your looking at roughly 14.00 1/4 mile for a normal person. Im not sure to many people have been claiming 13.00 second cars running stock on here with autos.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

GuatoLT1 said:


> 13.00 flat bone stock?????? for an 04 A4????
> 
> 2004 Pontiac GTO - First Drive & Road Test Review - Motor Trend
> 
> Read this my friend. Motor trend ran a 13.62 1/4 mile with a manual, and not to mention thats a professional driver. So your looking at roughly 14.00 1/4 mile for a normal person. Im not sure to many people have been claiming 13.00 second cars running stock on here with autos.


lol not sure if you read the whole thread but i was being sarcastic towards some of the members that said my low 13 goal was something these cars run from the factory....


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## GuatoLT1 (Jul 22, 2009)

i read the whole thread. Sounds like to me that you think your stock 04 can run a low 13 all day. I understand what a 13 second car is....... but i also understand what your saying by low 13's. I just wanted to throw the info out there. Im also from minnesota and ill be driving my 06 back from florida in march to sell. We should hit the track up and have a few runs!!!!!! In the panhandle where im at all the tracks suck.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Agenthol302 said:


> according to everyone else these cars will run 13.00 bone stock. But yea im excited for the tune...nothing is worth the money unless there is a tune to make it run to its full potential


The faster EVER A4 '04 I've seen is 13.2. The people that told you a 13.0 as norm have no idea what they're talking about


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I don't recall anyone saying that '13.00 was the norm' or that 'these cars will run 13.00 bone stock'. He started out by saying "the goal for this car is to run low 13s". I asked 'isn't that pretty much what they're capable of stock?' The definition of low 13s was then questioned but isn't a 13.2 considered a low 13?. Not all of the vehicles I listed back on the first page were A4s, and I noted that, but all of them were in the low 13s which I thought was <13.50. All that being said, I want to see you in the 12s when you're done.........why not remove all doubt.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

GuatoLT1 said:


> i read the whole thread. Sounds like to me that you think your stock 04 can run a low 13 all day. I understand what a 13 second car is....... but i also understand what your saying by low 13's. I just wanted to throw the info out there. Im also from minnesota and ill be driving my 06 back from florida in march to sell. We should hit the track up and have a few runs!!!!!! In the panhandle where im at all the tracks suck.


yea dude let me know im 99% sure i will be running the Street car shootout and the muscle car shootout at BIR with the camaro this year and the GTO for either test and tunes at rockfalls in WI. or wedensday night street drags at BIR


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## alaninin (Dec 4, 2010)

I was told unscreening the mass air flow sensor may give you problems with the mass air flow sensor sending the computer wrong reading and the computer sends back corrections which throws your idle and tune off. Not sure but worth checking into before taking the screen off.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

alaninin said:


> I was told unscreening the mass air flow sensor may give you problems with the mass air flow sensor sending the computer wrong reading and the computer sends back corrections which throws your idle and tune off. Not sure but worth checking into before taking the screen off.


thats what the tune is for


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## alaninin (Dec 4, 2010)

Here is some info to consider on the Mass Air Flow Sensor. I don't think a tune will be a correction to the problems you may create.

A Mass Air Flow Sensor is just that. It is used in conjunction with other sensors, (O2, Intake Air Temperature) in a fuel injected engine to provide input for the Engine Control Unit. With these inputs the ECU can now balance and deliver the correct fuel mass to the engine. When a MAF is used in conjunction with an Oxygen Sensor, the engine's air/fuel ratio can be controlled very accurately. The MAF sensor provides the open-loop predicted air flow information (the measured air flow) to the ECU, and the oxygen sensor provides closed-loop feedback in order to make minor corrections to the predicted air mass. The mesh (screen) on the MAF is used to smooth out airflow to ensure the sensors have the best chance of a steady reading. It is not used for measuring the air flow per se. although without it, (removal) it will have a direct alteration in readings produced by MAF sent to the ECU.
This is a very brief explanation of how the MAF Sensor, and it's mesh (screen) work in accordance to provide accurate fuel delivery in a fuel injected engine, and actually their are several types of mass airflow sensors in use on automotive engines. To answer your question though, DO NOT REMOVE MESH ON MAF. There are NO gains in performance made by doing so, in fact, you will only negate performance because the MAF will send inaccurate signals to the ECU and the system will now not function properly.
Also Note: dirt and oil can contaminate the hot-wire deteriorating its accuracy, In situations where owners use oiled-gauze air filters, it is possible for excess oil to coat the MAF sensor and skew its readings. I have noted substantial gains in performance just by cleaning this mesh when included at time of basic tune---up intervals. a specific MAF or Electronics Cleaner should be used, not carburetor or brake cleaner. These are alcohol or CFC-based solvents, rather than the harsh petroleum distillates used in the other cleaners... The sensors should be gently sprayed from a careful distance to avoid physically damaging them. Actually, I find just by cleaning this mesh, and also cleaning the O2 sensor with electrical spray is all that need be done, whenever my vehicle starts to suffer from cold startup, rough idle, etc. I haven't even had to change plugs in over 50,000 miles. FUEL DELIVERY WORKS GOOD NO FOULING PLUGS. Be sure MAF or Electronics Cleaner be used though!


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I've seen talk of this enough to wonder so I'll ask. What is the perceived/expected benefit/result of MAF sensor de screeening?


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

alaninin said:


> Here is some info to consider on the Mass Air Flow Sensor. I don't think a tune will be a correction to the problems you may create.
> 
> A Mass Air Flow Sensor is just that. It is used in conjunction with other sensors, (O2, Intake Air Temperature) in a fuel injected engine to provide input for the Engine Control Unit. With these inputs the ECU can now balance and deliver the correct fuel mass to the engine. When a MAF is used in conjunction with an Oxygen Sensor, the engine's air/fuel ratio can be controlled very accurately. The MAF sensor provides the open-loop predicted air flow information (the measured air flow) to the ECU, and the oxygen sensor provides closed-loop feedback in order to make minor corrections to the predicted air mass. The mesh (screen) on the MAF is used to smooth out airflow to ensure the sensors have the best chance of a steady reading. It is not used for measuring the air flow per se. although without it, (removal) it will have a direct alteration in readings produced by MAF sent to the ECU.
> This is a very brief explanation of how the MAF Sensor, and it's mesh (screen) work in accordance to provide accurate fuel delivery in a fuel injected engine, and actually their are several types of mass airflow sensors in use on automotive engines. To answer your question though, DO NOT REMOVE MESH ON MAF. There are NO gains in performance made by doing so, in fact, you will only negate performance because the MAF will send inaccurate signals to the ECU and the system will now not function properly.
> Also Note: dirt and oil can contaminate the hot-wire deteriorating its accuracy, In situations where owners use oiled-gauze air filters, it is possible for excess oil to coat the MAF sensor and skew its readings. I have noted substantial gains in performance just by cleaning this mesh when included at time of basic tune---up intervals. a specific MAF or Electronics Cleaner should be used, not carburetor or brake cleaner. These are alcohol or CFC-based solvents, rather than the harsh petroleum distillates used in the other cleaners... The sensors should be gently sprayed from a careful distance to avoid physically damaging them. Actually, I find just by cleaning this mesh, and also cleaning the O2 sensor with electrical spray is all that need be done, whenever my vehicle starts to suffer from cold startup, rough idle, etc. I haven't even had to change plugs in over 50,000 miles. FUEL DELIVERY WORKS GOOD NO FOULING PLUGS. Be sure MAF or Electronics Cleaner be used though!


whats your experience with a descreened MAF? because i have run them before, yes when you put it in it will make the car run like **** BUT if you have a good tuner like i do it IS NOT a problem. i have all the tuning readings of the car when it was tuned including the MAF reading and what not. the car runs just as good if not better. people (yes you too) often under estimate the power of a tune and how much difference it can make. i have run screened and descreened and iv never had any problems with a descreened MAF as long as your smart about how you do it


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## alaninin (Dec 4, 2010)

If your fine with it taking out the screen do it. I was just putting out some info to help avoid possible problems. If you already know what the out come of removing the screen with a good tuner go for it. Good luck with your build.


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## The_Madcat (Sep 30, 2011)

What exactly is the gain from removing the screen?


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I also wondered that on the previous page but no one has responded as yet.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

I doubt it will do anything for the majority of applications.


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

heres some picks of my stock MAF vs jet flo MAF on my camaro



















its alot less restrictive and more air flow so with a tune and supporting mods i think the screen is good for 2-3 hp and the whole new cnc cut maf with tune and mods is good for 5+ in my opinion


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## GuatoLT1 (Jul 22, 2009)

5 horsepower??????? negative on that one. Maybe 1 if your lucky


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

GuatoLT1 said:


> 5 horsepower??????? negative on that one. Maybe 1 if your lucky


if u get a bigger MAF with tune and supporting mods i can see 5 on the case of the screen alone no i dont see 5 but the big MAF it self i see up to 5


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

GTO just got dropped off for the exhasut so ill try and get pics and maybe video up soon


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

new exhaust is on..heres some pics and vid























































and the video 



i had one of the sound but camera phone video doesnt sound like it really does


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

some review on the exhaust (mostly spintech) sounds mean and nasty...at idle its perfrect not to loud or too quit...at cruising speed the drone is very very small. its loud where you can hear it but it can also be covered up easily by the radio if needed. but when u step on it it's like a bat outta hell. if u ask me its perfect for DD and good for a highly residental area but loud when you want it to be


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