# Steering



## chui1980 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hey guys whats up. I always wonder how this topic works. I did the entire front end including but not limited to steering kit, front disc brakes, sway bar, etc. I just order a I-didit steering column but i wondering how do get your steering stiffer. Any thoughts?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"wondering how do get your steering stiffer. Any thoughts?"

VIAGRA??????:bannana:

I believe the applied pressure from you pump that goes to the steering box has a built in valve that regulates the pressure thus giving you an easier turning wheel versus a "stiffy" turning wheel. Is that what you are talking about? I don't know if that can be changed, or how you would change that.:thumbsup:


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## chui1980 (Jun 5, 2013)

Right. Exactly that. I seen videos on youtube or even car tv programs talking about changing the steering box for a different type of ratio box. I dont want to do that.I also hear that messing with the adjustment nut on the factory steering box is no good. So what the hell you do to make the wheel just a bit more tighter to steer


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

chui1980 said:


> Right. Exactly that. I seen videos on youtube or even car tv programs talking about changing the steering box for a different type of ratio box. I dont want to do that.I also hear that messing with the adjustment nut on the factory steering box is no good. So what the hell you do to make the wheel just a bit more tighter to steer


Are you talking about tight as in stiffer to turn or are you talking about slop in the steering wheel?

You take the slop out of the wheel by adjusting the worm bearing preload then the pitman and ball back lash adjustment.
Section 9 in your service manual
If you can't do the work or have the tools any good alignment shop can do the adjustments.


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## chui1980 (Jun 5, 2013)

I guess both. The steering wheel has a minor play however I am more concern about the tightness when steering. I dont want it to be so soft. You know what I mean?


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

If you have power steering it is going to be soft, if you want it to be more responsive you have to change out the steering box.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Your steering feels soft (over assisted) as the original box is an early constant ratio GM 800 Series 20-1 box. It will feel soft, in the best of working order, that is the result of its original design, you may not want to remove it and substitute a later box, but that's just the facts.

Variable ratio Saginaw 800 series boxes were first introduced as option on '68 Birds and then introduced as std equip on 69 GP's and '69 T/A's. Pontiac led all GM divisions introducing variable ratio boxes, as a result many have upgraded to later variable ratio boxes. If you were local, Id let you bolt one in from one of my '69-71 Grand Prix parts cars and I can guarantee you would feel the difference of even installing the most subtle of the early variable ratio boxes. 

The tightest variable ratio boxes built in the 70's were the optional WS6 Firebird boxes. In the late 80's all through the 90's, I always pulled the '78-80 WS6 boxes off partscars I hauled in, as well as pulling them for cheap in Pick-N-Pull yards. Over the years, sold multiple dozens of early WS6 boxes and even installed a few in customer's '67-69 GTO's. 

With these early WS6 boxes (and matching pump valving), steering feel is immensly improved. A small trade off is the stops in the 2nd Gen F body boxes are different than 64-72 A-body's thus the turning radius is slightly increased with the substitution of any of the 2nd Gen Boxes, noticeable making u turns. Over the last dozen years, the 90's Jeep Grand Cherokee box along with its matching pressure valve have taken off as the best swap variable ratio box for '64-72 A body's. Many enthusiasts have even pulled them and installed them in '80's model G body's. The reason being is the variable ratio 800 series box in these Jeeps is as good as all the earlier WS6 boxes, along with them being readily avail both ove the counter & in yards, & last, the stops are right.

Just like when substituting the '80 and 81 WS6 boxes, its easiast to order the metric to SAE thread inserts, so one can use ones original A-body PS hoses. The rag joint has to be swapped as well with a rag joint first used in most '77 F bodies (the '77 conversion style) rag joint. This rag joint was also used through the mid 80's in GM pickups, so it is common as a new part today, or one can even use a low mile mile used one. Up till a few years ago, I had a large box full of the conversion rag joints. that I'd pulled in Pick-N-Pulls, and being 15-20 years old when I pulled them, there was no degradation, they worked liked new.


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

Pinion head said:


> Your steering feels soft (over assisted) as the original box is an early constant ratio GM 800 Series 20-1 box. It will feel soft, in the best of working order, that is the result of its original design, you may not want to remove it and substitute a later box, but that's just the facts.
> 
> Variable ratio Saginaw 800 series boxes were first introduced as option on '68 Birds and then introduced as std equip on 69 GP's and '69 T/A's. Pontiac led all GM divisions introducing variable ratio boxes, as a result many have upgraded to later variable ratio boxes. If you were local, Id let you bolt one in from one of my '69-71 Grand Prix parts cars and I can guarantee you would feel the difference of even installing the most subtle of the early variable ratio boxes.
> 
> ...


what do you mean when describing the above steering box when you say,"the stops are right" ?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

The stops limit the travel of the steering sector and as a result how far the tire and wheel will turn outboard (and inboard). There are companys like Power Steering Services in Springfield, MO that will take your 800 series PS box and remanufacture it with quick ratio internals, have used them Before and am very happy with results. 

As the 800 boxes are very generic looking and the main external difference one will run across for many years is the stamped date code on the small alum cover, many builders/restorers simply substitute a later quick ratio box. I've actually swapped the small alum covers off core steering boxes with good buddy's who were restoring GTO's to a very high Concours level where they did not have the original steering box and needed the correct date range stamped cover.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks for this write up PH, another page bookmarked for reference.


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## 67Twistytee (Feb 24, 2014)

Pinion head said:


> Over the last dozen years, the 90's Jeep Grand Cherokee box along with its matching pressure valve have taken off as the best swap variable ratio box for '64-72 A body's. Many enthusiasts have even pulled them and installed them in '80's model G body's. The reason being is the variable ratio 800 series box in these Jeeps is as good as all the earlier WS6 boxes, along with them being readily avail both ove the counter & in yards, & last, the stops are right.


Hey PH

I pulled one of these 800 boxes for the swap. I thought you can't use a Jeep pressure valve on an early style Saginaw pump (with original hoses) due to the metric fittings. Don't you also have to use a later style metric pressure hose if going with an upgraded pressure valve? And doesn't the Jeep use a different style pump so the valve doesn't work? I know a lot of guys do the swap and leave their original valve and hoses in place and claim not to notice a difference. Any harm there?


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## chui1980 (Jun 5, 2013)

:00/o::00/o::00/o: Here we go again. I just finished installation of the new column attached with the steering box. Alignment is very close to perfect. I drove the car and still have some issue in regards to keeping steering wheel solid straight throught. I just remember that the only thing that was not replace was the Idle Arm but I doubt that could be causing this issue. Everything else has being adjusted and secured with cotter pins. Could it be the steering box that has gone bad and faulty causing the the wheel to be all over the place? any thoughts.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

chui1980 said:


> :00/o::00/o::00/o: Here we go again. I just finished installation of the new column attached with the steering box. Alignment is very close to perfect. I drove the car and still have some issue in regards to keeping steering wheel solid straight throught. I just remember that the only thing that was not replace was the Idle Arm but I doubt that could be causing this issue. Everything else has being adjusted and secured with cotter pins. Could it be the steering box that has gone bad and faulty causing the the wheel to be all over the place? any thoughts.


Assuming everything is installed correctly, the ability to hold a straight line is usually a function of the caster angle and toe. Both are set when the alignment is done. 

Where are you taking your car to have it aligned? If you're going to a big box store (Pep Boys, Les Schwab, etc.), you're going to have a hard time finding someone who knows how to dial in these older cars. They usually don't tune for for performance or "feel". They just set it by the computer to whatever specs. they find. Find an old school alignment shop and talk to the mechanic about what you're looking for.


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## chui1980 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry for the late reply since I have being in Mexico for the past couple of days. I truly believe that is hard to find a real shop that can do all of the above with a classic car. Everyone tells you different things however they full of it. I just ordered a new steering box just to be safe but now the works begins. Finding a reputable shop. ANY RECOMENDATIONS?


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