# Potential value of a 1970 GTO Judge?



## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Hello,

New to the forum but long time Judge fan. My neighbor has finally decided to sell me his 1970 GTO Judge. He has owned the car since the 70s and he says the car is numbers matching and comes with a build sheet.

The car is solid, original paint (Burgundy), and what many would consider to be a survivor. Its and original 4 speed car as well.

My question is, what could the car possibly be worth and what is a good buying price? I see prices all over the place and he is a fair guy but I am unsure what range we should be in.

I will try and get some photos soon. Just curious what others thought.

Thank you.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

On any given day, any car is only "worth" what someone is willing to pay and not a penny more. 

Since you're dealing with your neighbor, you're going to continue to have a relationship long past any potential sale so it's probably important for both of you to come away from the transaction feeling good about it and about each other. 

I suggest the two of you together work out whatever you both feel is fair, if you can, and not worry too much about what others think. 

Bear


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Make sure you have the PHS documents in hand before closing any deal. They will verify if it as true Judge.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Thank you for those that have responded.

It is in fact a real Judge. Ram Air III.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

All original, numbers matching, PHS/papers documented - $80,000 - $90,000.


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## 65GTO1of1 (Jan 25, 2021)

Pexxy said:


> Thank you for those that have responded.
> 
> It is in fact a real Judge. Ram Air III.


Its not a real Judge until PHS says its a Judge.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

That is not true. It has original decals and the hood says ‘Ram Air’


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Pexxy said:


> That is not true. It has original decals and the hood says ‘Ram Air’


Ram Air alone does not guarantee the car has the Judge package. Both RA III and IV options were available on "regular" GTO's. The PHS docs are in fact required to confirm Judge status because there are no codes/numbers/identifications on the car itself that will confirm it. Considering that there are more Judges on the road today than Pontiac ever built 😁, ordering the PHS doc is pretty cheap insurance, taking into account the price premium a Judge commands.

Bear


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Agree with the others Pex, The PHS is a bonus for the car anyway. And it pretty much drops the hammer on what it really is👍


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

So how were real judges confirmed prior to PHS’s existance? Or has PHS always been around? If he wanted to sell the car in 72, would he have been SOL cuz there is no way to prove it was real?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Not much to build a Judge back in the day. Go down to your Pontiac dealer, order the stripes, spoiler, and glovebox emblem. Instant Judge.
Odds are your neighbor has a real one, but he did buy it used...
if you're willing to drop 60-70K on a Judge, what's an extra $85?


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

No. He bought it new. Said the only reason he did not get the Ram Air IV was cuz there was not much difference in HP. He said he could make up the difference with headers and an intake.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Pexxy said:


> No. He bought it new. Said the only reason he did not get the Ram Air IV was cuz there was not much difference in HP. He said he could make up the difference with headers and an intake.


I agree with the others, PHS...unfortunately you weren't standing beside him when he made the purchase.


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## 65GTO1of1 (Jan 25, 2021)

Pexxy said:


> That is not true. It has original decals and the hood says ‘Ram Air’


I'm just trying to look out for you. Decals and hood script mean NOTHING. Don't you think that stuff can be put on after market? In the Pontiac Classic Car world PHS is the Bible. If you are going to make a MAJOR investment, don't you think the few bucks you would spend on PHS documentation is EXCELLENT insurance. Even if you don't insist on it, the person you sell the car to down the road will. Doubles the value of the car.
There are more "Judges" on the road today than Pontiac ever built.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

It’s kind of important for him if he is serious of selling it to have the PHS. Any serious buyer is going to want that . Bet your bottom dollar on that.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the feedback and guidance. 

On a side note, does anyone know when I will be able to post in the classified section? I need to find an airfoil wing and the complete under hood Ram Air setup and wanted to post an ad.


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## 65GTO1of1 (Jan 25, 2021)

He shows up and says he is new. Then he lambastes us when we all tell him he needs the PHS. We are just trying to look out for him, and he says our comments about needing PHS is "not true". Dude - I guarantee you there is more knowledge in this room than you will ever have.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

...


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

_duplicate post_


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## Khmike (Jun 21, 2021)

Has the seller mentioned a price he is hoping to get? On a side note, I picked up the PHS documentation because I picked up a recently acquired GTO (having nothing to do with what the seller or anyone else had to say). Convertible, 4-Speed, Console yada-yada, and my "mid-life crises red" was once upon a time the original Verdoro Green.......


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

You know, he hasn't. And he is pretty indifferent. He is financially set and to be quite frank, has not shown an ounce of care towards the car.

I have only ever seen it a few times. After years of passive jokes or taunts for him to sell he finally said ok. Truth be told, I had gotten so used to him saying no or brushing me off, it kind of became a schtick between us.

We will be going out to look at it in the near future. I will be sure and post pics. He said it is missing key parts so we will see. I know it needs the wing and the ram air setup. I'm personally more of a Mopar guy so I have been learning a lot this week.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Pexxy said:


> You know, he hasn't. And he is pretty indifferent. He is financially set and to be quite frank, has not shown an ounce of care towards the car.
> 
> I have only ever seen it a few times. After years of passive jokes or taunts for him to sell he finally said ok. Truth be told, I had gotten so used to him saying no or brushing me off, it kind of became a schtick between us.
> 
> We will be going out to look at it in the near future. I will be sure and post pics. He said it is missing key parts so we will see. I know it needs the wing and the ram air setup. I'm personally more of a Mopar guy so I have been learning a lot this week.


You are getting a rough time because there are many "would be" Judges and buyers get rooked all the time. It could be a Lemans/Tempest cloned. Who knows?

Some of your posts are a little questionable, but then again, if you have really never taken the time to get all the details about the car and its owner and their history, AND you are a Mopar guy, your conversations with the neighbor were most likely casual and in passing and no deeper.

Here is what I mean, "He has owned the car since the 70s and he says the car is numbers matching and comes with a build sheet. No. He bought it new."

If he bought the car new he has owned it since 1970, not "since the '70s", but that may just be how you posted - kinda means the same, but isn't.

The members here are being cautious as we all know of buyers who have gotten burned. We also have had people join that were bogus trolls stirring it up. Anyone can claim anything, but proof and facts are the ultimate last word. The Judge style stripes could be ordered as an option or installed on any A-body, as could the RAM AIR III hood decals. The Judge did have the Ram Air pan and it will also have operating hood scoop flaps in black (not painted the same color as the car) that opened and closed by a pull knob under the dash and marked as such. You say key parts are missing and this includes the RA set-up. OK, I can buy that because back years ago, the pan was really no big deal because we never viewed these cars as the value or rarity we do today. I had a '69 Road Runner with the factory air induction set-up. The hood pan and related air cleaner items were long gone. Had the screens in the hood and the pull knob - and even then I had no idea what it was or that it was missing. Just had a cool hood with the open hood vents.

So if the car had RA, which it will if a Judge, you will see the screw holes in the hood bracing, or maybe even an imprint/outline where it attached. BUT, the RA hood set-up was also and option, so this does not prove a Judge anymore than the stripes or RAM AIR III decals on the hood prove a Judge.

You stated the spoiler is missing. This is a key feature of the Judge, BUT again, can be an option or added on. Look for the holes in the trunk lid skin and the spoiler option is said to have stronger/repositioned trunk torsion springs due to the extra weight of the spoiler. Open the trunk and it should open well and quickly.

The Judge will have a small "Judge" emblem on the glove box door. If souvenier hunters have taken it (or some of us who grabbed parts for mementos to remind us of the car), there will be some indication of the emblem on the glove box door.

The Judge should have a Hurst "T" handle, not a ball.

Underneath will be a rear sway bar. Some, but not all, Judges had a small fiberglass chin spoiler below the grille valence - my '70 had one. 

There are other things that can be checked/verified.

The build sheet is another item that *can be* reproduced. So can VIN & Data tags nowadays. So post some pics when you get them. Take a pic of the Data tag on the firewall. Don't need or want the VIN, but it should be deciphered and the 242 is GTO and a Letter will tell you what factory it was built at. I will also say Maroon is not a common color, so that in itself could add value.

So you can verify many things that could or could not be original and identify the car as a Judge. This is why most all of us here will stress the PHS documents that YOU order and recieve at your doorstep versus taking the word of another that they have them and you don't have to order them. Not saying anything ill of your neighbor, but many shady people in the world when big profits can be had and you may not have any recourse in getting your money back.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> So if the car had RA, which it will if a Judge, you will see the screw holes in the hood bracing, or maybe even an imprint/outline where it attached. BUT, the RA hood set-up was also and option, so this does not prove a Judge anymore than the stripes or RAM AIR III decals on the hood prove a Judge.


Thank you Jim.

I don't know if the hood decals say Ram Air III or just Ram Air, but he told me it was a Ram Air III (opposed to the IV).

Regarding the above quote though, what do you mean "if the car had RA, which it will if a Judge" but then say "BUT, the RA hood set-up was also an option." I am confused. The black lever you referenced inside the car is there. I thought that was standard on all Judges. Are you saying that some Judges could have a non-functioning ram air hood setup?

I guess I will just get a PHS.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Pexxy said:


> Thank you Jim.
> 
> I don't know if the hood decals say Ram Air III or just Ram Air, but he told me it was a Ram Air III (opposed to the IV).
> 
> ...


No, what I mean is that the RA set-up will be part of the Judge package - it is a standard item on the Judge. Other non-Judge cars could have the RA set-up installed as an option. So all Judges will have the functional hood scoops UNLESS an owner removed them at some point and installed a set of solid, non-functional, hood scoops. Once you pull off the RA stuff, you could possibly see some water get past the scoops (they are not water tight) and in to or on to the engine.

The RA III engine was the standard engine on the Judge, optional on other cars. The Judge option code for ordering purposes and should be on the build sheet is "WT-1."

The RAIV was rated at 370HP vs 366 for the RAIII, but the difference was day and night, not "just" 4 HP. The 370HP was conservative. The engine was basically a race engine and not well mannered for the street.

Yes, you are correct on the hood, just "Ram Air." I think I have seen the "III" added on a car or 2 at a car show.

You will also have the car's serial number, or part of it, stamped on the front of the block along the water pump. You will have a 2-letter block code, WS.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Pexxy said:


> Thank you Jim.
> 
> I don't know if the hood decals say Ram Air III or just Ram Air, but he told me it was a Ram Air III (opposed to the IV).
> 
> ...


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Got a little heated there but that's OK. It happens from time to time.

I may have missed this but the condition of the car seems to be missing from this post. You call it a survivor but that could mean a lot of things. Does it run and drive? Does it need a full restoration or would it be driver condition? Is is solid? Stored inside or outside and where? A car stored outside in NM would probably be in better shape than one inside of a barn in Vermont. All of these things will affect value. You may find that Pontiacs can be a bit on the pricey side compared to other makes. You said you're typically a Mopar guy so sticker shock may not be so bad for you compared to say a Chevy or Ford guy, but parts are expensive if/when you need them The price goes up drastically if you want NOS as opposed to re-pop. Pictures would really help the folks on here give you a ballpark value if the car is the real deal.

I liked whoever commented that you have to be friends with the neighbor long after this transaction is over. Keep in mind that old cars are crazy expensive right now so the urge to sell could be driven by the current value surge. I bought my LeMans 8 years ago and paid over market then. Since then, I have put a pile of money and time into it. I did all this knowing that I would always be up-side-down in it. In comes 2021 and I could possibly break even IF I sold right now.

Side note. Folks did not care if a car was legit 40+ years ago. I remember seeing these used to pull campers back in the early 80's when they were just cheep used cars that sucked a lot of fuel. Now the values are so high you really need to make sure you are buying exactly what you think you're getting. Trust me, the next guy down the line will when you go to sell.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> All original, numbers matching, PHS/papers documented - $80,000 - $90,000.



My numbers would reflect a #1 condition car, but even that can be lower/higher depending on options.

Since the car is missing parts and we don't know mileage or other conditions of the car, it could be a 20-25K car that needs to be gone through - and most of us here know what that will cost. Depending on level of rehab, it can sometimes put you upside down pretty quick. The mnore you can do, the more you save. If you have to farm out the work, it adds up very quick.

It could be a car that can be "cleaned" up and left as a survivor. Go through and replace/rebuild the parts needed to make it safe and driveable. Then enjoy it. Not every car has to be restored, and a number of us appreciate that car that is a little beat up & used and has its original patina, worn interior, with all of its flaws. Just look at all the "rat rods" that many enjoy and build - and they can pull in some $big dollars as well.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> My numbers would reflect a #1 condition car, but even that can be lower/higher depending on options.
> 
> Since the car is missing parts and we don't know mileage or other conditions of the car, it could be a 20-25K car that needs to be gone through - and most of us here know what that will cost. Depending on level of rehab, it can sometimes put you upside down pretty quick. The mnore you can do, the more you save. If you have to farm out the work, it adds up very quick.
> 
> It could be a car that can be "cleaned" up and left as a survivor. Go through and replace/rebuild the parts needed to make it safe and driveable. Then enjoy it. Not every car has to be restored, and a number of us appreciate that car that is a little beat up & used and has its original patina, worn interior, with all of its flaws. Just look at all the "rat rods" that many enjoy and build - and they can pull in some $big dollars as well.


Thanks again Jim. You have been very kind and patient in taking your time to explain these things to newer member of the community.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Post some pics of it Pex when you get a chance 👍


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

This 'driver' 69 Judge just sold for $35K. 





__





1969 GTO Judge ram air 3 4 speed - PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together


1969 GTO Judge ram air 3 4 speed SOLD Pontiacs



forums.maxperformanceinc.com


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## bkbaird (Nov 11, 2018)

Pexxy said:


> Hello,
> 
> New to the forum but long time Judge fan. My neighbor has finally decided to sell me his 1970 GTO Judge. He has owned the car since the 70s and he says the car is numbers matching and comes with a build sheet.
> 
> ...


It is worth what one will pay. Nowadays that can be a LOT! Work it out between yourselves what each feels is fair. Then each will be happy and still friends and neighbors


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## nick rice (Nov 10, 2014)

I wouldn't make an offer, play dumb. Once you know its real let him do the talking then go from there.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

bkbaird said:


> It is worth what one will pay. Nowadays that can be a LOT! Work it out between yourselves what each feels is fair. Then each will be happy and still friends and neighbors


For sure, again, as has been stated already above, many ‘classic’ cars, especially the ones in good shape, are increasing sharply in thier value lately due to the global market conditions, and so many unique parts becoming difficult to timely obtain, it indeed may be a good time to make a move on a car if one was considering it , and particularly, if it is readily accessible in the local area.
Thou as Bear and Jared have said, keeping a local relationship healthy is vital when buying from a neighbor (or worse, a family-tree member) as it can become both a boon and a curse , nothing sucks worse than a sullen, suddenly-distant, neighbor-guy now constantly glaring at you for years to come, everytime you or your family is in your front yard , cause of some stupid transaction with money, that he latently broods about and now feels was unfair, long after it was agreed to and finalized😠
So Amazing how quickly money can taint our emotions if we let it…


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Jetzster said:


> For sure, again, as has been stated already above, many ‘classic’ cars, especially the ones in good shape, are increasing sharply in thier value lately due to the global market conditions, and so many unique parts becoming difficult to timely obtain, it indeed may be a good time a make a move on a car if one was considering it , and particulaly, if it is readily accessible in the area.
> As Bear and Jared have said, keeping a local relationship healthy when buying from a neighbor (or worse, a family-tree member) is both a boon and a curse , as nothing sucks worse than a sullen, suddenly-distant, neighbor-guy now constantly glaring at you for years to come, everytime you or your family is in your front yard , cause of some stupid transaction with money, that he latently broods about and now feels was unfair, long after it was agreed to and done😠
> So Amazing how quickly money can taint our emotions if we let it…


X2 with Jet , will make grass cutting awkward


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## robt1970 (Oct 6, 2021)

I like this discussion. You have all the wisdom here giving excellent insight. Maybe the better question is, what are your expectations in owning and using this car. If you want a car to show at Pontiac competitions, the numbers matching vehicle is a good start. Expect to pay a premium and be tied to a very careful restoration process. If you don't really care about the parts and numbers, you have a less expensive path and the freedom to modify the car as you like. IMHO it would be a shame to take a one owner number matching judge and not keep it original.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Well. We may be back to square one. He is back to not ‘being sure’ so who knows.
I will say this though. This last week has had me pretty excited about it. Maybe I will look elseware.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Pexxy said:


> Well. We may be back to square one. He is back to not ‘being sure’ so who knows.
> I will say this though. This last week has had me pretty excited about it. Maybe I will look elseware.


Good luck my friend. This is the risk when dealing with an original owner. There are tons of these cars out there but prices may be a bit rough right now. If this car works out, or you find another Pontiac, this is a great place for advice. There are a few guys on here that are experts and a lot of us that will help out with what we can.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Are you neighbors or neighbors and really good friends? Maybe you can get a number in mind that's fair go over with a really good bottle of his favorite spirit and after a couple whip out the check and tell him how much you've admired the car and that you're not going to hack it up and that he can come take it for a spin anytime. We're not getting any younger and who knows what tomorrow brings plus it sounds like it's just sitting and rotting that he doesn't drive it. If you do get it what says he or you moves or puts up a fence 😉 Just a thought... but it is a hard situation and you don't want to create a bad situation between both of you if you're staying neighbors. Good luck 👍


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Ugh neighbors. I have found it easier to buy one from someone not even trying to sell the car. If they are moving it might be a different story. I think they don't want the reminder every day that they could have fixed up the car, At least that is the story we got from him after asking about it for years.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

67ventwindow said:


> Ugh neighbors. I have found it easier to buy one from someone not even trying to sell the car. If they are moving it might be a different story. I think they don't want the reminder every day that they could have fixed up the car, At least that is the story we got from him after asking about it for years.


Ugh is right...well you can plead your case again and tell him you're going to look elsewhere but it would be nice if he did something with it, it's not a Picasso you sit and look at. Maybe don't get it PHS certified because he'll know what it's worth and you'll be sore that you know what it's worth. Did I miss the part that if he bought it new, than where's the spoiler and ram air setup?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....sorry thought I was responding to pexy...time for bed.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Ive seen people fold like butter when a tall pile of fresh new cash 💶 wrapped in a paper moneyband gets whipped out during the conversation in a huge pile and is just sittin there…messes with peoples (and their wives) heads sometimes and makes things just happen that otherwise wouldn’t


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

The Judge has a new home.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Done deal for You?


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

$10,000.00


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Super! Great price and congrats!👍🤜🤛😁


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks like a great score at that price even if it is not a Judge. More pics and get the PHS documents so we can all see what it is equipped with.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Pexxy said:


> $10,000.00
> View attachment 147184


Sweeeeet...and not even a 100.00 bottle of booze? Happy for you and hope you remain friends, now fix her up nice and remember to give him the first ride...and also you know he's going to be watching every move 😉


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## robt1970 (Oct 6, 2021)

Wash it and it will look like 20 grand


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Sweeeeet...and not even a 100.00 bottle of booze? Happy for you and hope you remain friends, now fix her up nice and remember to give him the first ride...and also you know he's going to be watching every move 😉


What waz I thinking…


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

robt1970 said:


> Wash it and it will look like 20 grand


Happy Day! The Wash Crew is ready and are dying to meet the newest Judge Owner..Big Partay tonite!


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Great price especially in todays market.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jetzster said:


> Happy Day! The Wash Crew is ready and are dying to meet the newest Judge Owner..Big Partay tonite!
> 
> View attachment 147186


My car is pretty dirty too, send them over 😀


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Pexxy said:


> $10,000.00
> View attachment 147184


So are you going to get PHS documents and what if they say it's not a judge does that change anything? Just thinking worst case and I hope that puddle of oil isn't from the Judge.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

...


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

At 10K I'd be happy if it was a cloned Tempest. Great deal! That paint looks good enough to buff out and run, scratches and all.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Yes. We're both happy with the transaction. The car was not as described and needed alot more work than initially imagined and after further discussions, he does not think he bought THIS particular car brand new and rather had it confused with a different car. Out of sight of of mind thing I think (not to mention he is older and has over 100 cars). Hell, it looked completely different from when I saw it last years ago and I thought I had a great memory.

I apologize if I mis-spoke but I never meant to say it was ‘missing’ a wing or the ram-air setup, I just said I needed them. It most def has a wing but it is broken and quite some time ago he was broken into and his ram-air setup was stolen.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Pexxy said:


> The puddle of oil seems to have come from the differential. No. Its not gonna change anything. It was bought as is where is. He just wanted it gone and space to park a Hemi Cuda he has been looking at.
> 
> The goal for this weekend is to give it good bath and see if this paint cleans up any, pull out the carpet and see what we are working with inside, give the interior a good cleaning, prime the engine and see if the engine will turn over. Also going to order a new fuel system and brake system. The clutch feels spongy too but I wont go through that until the winter though.


Sounds good and great price! When was the last time it ran/drove? Good winter project if you're in a cold state. Hemi Cuda...nice 👍


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Pexxy said:


> Yes. We're both happy with the transaction. The car was not as described and needed alot more work than initially imagined and after further discussions, he does not think he bought THIS particular car brand new and rather had it confused with a different car. Out of sight of of mind thing I think (not to mention he is older and has over 100 cars). Hell, it looked completely different from when I saw it last years ago and I thought I had a great memory.
> 
> I apologize if I mis-spoke but I never meant to say it was ‘missing’ a wing or the ram-air setup, I just said I needed them. It most def has a wing but it is broken and quite some time ago he was broken into and his ram-air setup was stolen.


A 100 cars ! I have my hands full with one 🥴


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Sounds good and great price! When was the last time it ran/drove? Good winter project if you're in a cold state. Hemi Cuda...nice 👍


Mid 80s


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Try turning the engine over by hand first. Maybe pull the plugs and squirt some oil in the cylinders first. I have my fingers crossed for you


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Many shoot some Marvel for cyl pre lubeing in there


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Jetzster said:


> Many shoot some Marvel for cyl pre lubeing in there
> View attachment 147190


Yes, I just got some of that. Rented the priming tool, got new plugs as well. The interior is really rough so that may take longer initially planned.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Let the fun begin!!! The beginning of a great adventure.


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## nick rice (Nov 10, 2014)

Glad to hear your deal worked out. Have fun now!
Congrats!!...

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

From the pic Pex it does looks like the real McCoy. You got a really good deal 👍


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

pontrc said:


> From the pic Pex it does looks like the real McCoy. You got a really good deal 👍


Thank you. Here are a few more pics. It looks like its the original carb, distributor, heads, etc.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks like it has all the correct "Judge" specific identifying items, Hurst "T" shift handle, glove box emblem, ram air hood pan, RA under dash pull knob. So I am going to say it is indeed a true Judge.

Heads should have a casting number on the center exhaust port. Should be #12. The head date is October 15, 1969. So an early build date seeing production for the 1970 models starts at the end of September. Again, PHS documents will verify much about the car.

Do not replace the rear wing, repair it as the aftermarket items are not as accurate of of good quality as factory.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Do you have a photo of the data plate?
Distributor looks to have a July 69 date which is OK. The high performance distributors were built in batches sometimes months ahead of production, Not unusual to see one 6-8 months ahead of the engine build.


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

O52 said:


> Do you have a photo of the data plate?
> Distributor looks to have a July 69 date which is OK. The high performance distributors were built in batches sometimes months ahead of production, Not unusual to see one 6-8 months ahead of the engine build.


The data plate is coded with a build date of 11A, 275 interior, and dual 75s for exterior paint.

I personally prefer the red, but tell you what, I would have bet money that this car was burgundy. Guess that’s what seeing it years ago in a dark barn and lots of dust will do to your memory.


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## jsgoatman (Mar 5, 2013)

At that price, even with all the work you will have to do, looks like a steal!! Good luck with your project!! Keep the pictures coming as you proceed!


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Does anyone know if the factory harness can accommodate a factory (dash) tach? The car did not come with a tach originally but there are a few for sale local to me. If its an easy install, Id be happy to do so if the current harness allows for it.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Probably not but the harness is pretty cheep.





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Ames Part Detail






secure.amesperf.com


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks like RA III to me.


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## 65GTO1of1 (Jan 25, 2021)

Hmmmmmmm


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## Pexxy (Nov 5, 2021)

Took out the carpet. Little bit of surface scale rust but not a lick of cancer.


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