# How fast for $5000



## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

On another forum we are having a bit of an informal contest. Who can go the fastest with an absolute maximum of $5k. I could go the easy route and drop a cheaper engine in my 79 Formula that is already set up. I have around $1300 in the body and transmission. That would leave me enough room for a new 455.

I rather like the idea of taking a different car, and making it work with parts I have laying around. That 65 LeMans is looking like a good candidate at this point since it will share some parts with the 65 GTO. I have a $150 9" rear with 3.55 gears that will fit under it, then build the 400 block I picked up for $100 with the 48 heads a few years ago into a 428 or a 496, one of the Th400s laying around with an old stall. If I can get that LeMans light enough and make it hook, mid 11s wouldnt be very difficult. Just can I build a stroked 400 for less than $3k... with the parts I have laying around, I bet I can.

What do you guys think? Most people assume Pontiac is the most expensive way to go fast, this would be a good way to show that isnt always the case.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I think you can. 461 stroker crank,pistons, rods is $1600 or so. I talked to a racing machine shop and he said it drops in, no block clearancing or anything. $400 for block prep, bore, tank, cam bearings and gaskets, that's $2k. $500 for Hydraulic/solid cam, lifters and springs-- no roller cam in your budget. Or if you already have a good set of valve springs, cam and lifters $125 or so. $?? for head work and spring install. Gasket set. Then intake/carb/dizzy that you already have and you are all over it. Are you actually going to build it, then get together to race them? That would be cool.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yeah I have an old UltraDyne cam, the 288/296, about four sets of used 995 Comp springs. So that is covered, provided I can break in the cam and not get a flat lobe, and yeah it will get new lifters. I think I can pull it off even if I go with a 4.5" crank and those kits run just under $2k. I could use the 3.00 gears then and have a nice street car when its done. With my pile of parts really the only cost would be the crank kit and machine work. 

I have a 71 Ventura at the farm, needs a bunch of work but its an all manual car, with minimal rust, so it could be very light very easy. I have a 9" posi to fit that one too.. I traded a pair of bucket seats for the car, I bought those for $20. Or the 71 T37 I got for $175, but its heavier. A more work but lighter option would be the 75 Buick Skyhawk I got for $50 back in 98. No shortage of cars to do this, but most of them are back home in Nebraska.

It is getting its own section on that forum, and two of the guys who are involved with a couple big gear head magazines are privy to it. You might see it in a magazine next year, there is talk of doing Drag Week with them. I will go if I can get E85 along the route, Id rather not pull a trailer of home brew around.

Even if we dont get together to run side by side, we will all make passes at our closest tracks and compare. The only thing that concerns me is a 4.8/5.3 LS engine with some chineese turbos stuck in something light that hooks good..


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i like the Ventura....just like a nova they are light and quick had a 72' NOva 350/350 that used to give the GT guys fits because it was a granny 6 banger originally tan/green interior and all i did was stick my centerlines on it with sticky rubber. the motor was from a elcamino i totalled and i sold it to this guy for 400.00 he put it in the Nova and lost his license within a month and i bought the whole car back from him for 450.00. Throw a few chinese turbos on that 400 if you have a few bucks left have seen a few turbo pontiacs there was one 63 Tempest that was a bucket with huge twin turbos and would run in the 8's


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Had a sweet Ventura years back, the wife got it because the sales man said it had a 350 in it and she'd never owned one. Turns out it had the Olds 260!! Don't hit passing gear at 60 cause if you did you were slowing down even with the car floored!! :lol:


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Hhmmm.. a budget turbo 400 sounds interesting. Only need some good rods and new pistons then I can use a set of the large chamber heads. I would have to modify a Holley to blow through, because there is no way a Qjet is going to keep up with a turbo and E85, it just wont flow enough fuel.. Least I am pretty sure about it. That is no problem I have two Performers, an RPM and two Torker II intakes all of them can fit a Holley, of which I have several, plus a Demon 850. 

Running E85 means more exhaust volume and no need for an intercooler, plus its cheap and makes more power. That is one hell of an idea, how cheap can I get a couple turbos?

Was just thinking, does anyone have a couple rear exit manifolds? I could turn them around and have them exit the front, then run a short section of pipe to the hairdryer(s) or perhaps use a stock Y pipe from a single exhaust setup and one big honkin turbo ala HO Racing from the 70s. My stock stuff is limited, not sure how much is left.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

about 120 each...that would be badass

turbocharger | eBay

here is the Tempest i was talking about

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0711_1963_pontiac_tempest_lemans/photo_07.html


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Install a supercharger.....?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

$199 for a 1000 hp potential turbo, wonder how long it could last?
850 demon should feed it, and low compression is good. New challenge, how fast for $1000? lol..
It would be restrictive, but what if you picked it up after the Y pipe, installed the turbo in the passenger seat area, inside the car, routed the cool air forward, S the hot air back out?? Or put it in the back seat, put a box over it. to hide it. Then run some PVC or a Spectre air cleaner like G8ters to inlet the air, tell people you used the cowl to pick up the cold air.. Or run 4" PVC solid to the air cleaner with some cover over to look like a CAI. Custom Y pipe, 2.5 down pipes, then 3.5 Y and out to concealed turbo. I was thinking the rear mount turbo for my Vette, but thought a big puddle in the rain would lock it up due to temp change, that's why the internal mounting. Have the car pick up air inside the car, have to have the windows down..
Turbo lag, at least you have a Poncho torque to get you going til the turbo spools..
You could also runs dumps before and after the turbo under the car, then install a pipe there to take the turbo out of the loop between drag week runs. And disco the CAI under the hood, best of both worlds and a temp turbo. Could even swap to an economy carb with power valve for road trips to get MPG.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

for the challenge the turbo only needs to last a day at the races...


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Instg8ter said:


> about 120 each...that would be badass
> 
> turbocharger | eBay
> 
> ...


A bucktwenty each, not bad at all. That is very possible then. Always wanted to build a turbo Pontiac.

His idea of mounting has been running through my mind too. I could use simple headers and some pipe, and with a 400 or 455 the lag isnt so bad, it will just keep pulling like mad. Im not sure a Ventura would have room for that, but I think I could fit them under the T37 and make it look stock.. That would be a hell of a sleeper.

I could always make some fenders and a hood from fiberglass resin and a bolt of cloth.  Sneaky me...

I am not too fond of running the turbo inside the car, and you cant make passes with the windows down anyway. It isnt difficult to plumb air from the cowl vent, and an A body has more than enough room under the dash, but I just dont want the heat in there.

Hey Eric if you want to give me one then it might work, otherwise I cant afford a roots setup for the $5k limit. Cheap china turbos are about the only way to go forced induction. Could take along spares if they are that cheap.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I read about the rear mount turbo, and they said the lag wasn't bad, you just had to get one that spooled quick, but still made plenty of boost. On dual turbos, they run 1 small to spool quick, then a big one to take over and make the power. Nitrous does the same as the small Turbo. How about the big turbo in the trunk? Then pull air out of the tail panel, lol.. Or put one of those cool scoops on the roof like the ricers do.. You never said stealth, but wth. Look stock up front and go like hell, great sleeper, and the turbo mellows the exhaust at idle on a single exhaust.. Be awesome on a rat rod build also..
Read the article on the 63 Lemans, too cool, cooler in trunk as intercooler, and carries cokes and beer. Just run hood pins on the trunk extra long, down pos is down, 1" up is turbo race position to get air. He was LS powered with FI and looked stock, bad ass..


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yeah who says it has to be purdy, but then again a $200 paint job is not out of my skill set..


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

remove the back seat and hump the floor pan to mount them like this....

1963 Pontiac Tempest Lemans Twin Turbo Photo 7


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I just don't think a cheapy turbo is going to live in the environment under a car. A quality turbo may, but a $200 turbo? I would protect it and the S up and S down offer a place to put a couple dumps and a place to put a bypass pipe if the turbo dies. Then, little carb work to dump the setup and go back to NA.. Couple spares for the drag runs and you are good.
GODZILLA T4 turbo charger .81AR turbocharger HP 1000+ | eBay
Eric, even if you don't do this build, I see you putting this on something, lol.. I may also, sounds easy and makes great power..:cheers


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I have been thinking about a turbo Pontiac motor for a firebird too would love to see you build it


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Man, THAT sets the mood!!!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

love the way that motor twists when the turbo spools....all that pontiac torque to get you started then a big kick in the pants when you hit second....sound fun...


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

I think I would rather run a wastegate so I dont break anything, but a simple setup like that would work great in the Ventura or one of the A bodies. I would keep the intake low so I can run a stock hood, stealthy and very much "Dont look at me, I am nothing important, nothing to see here, move along" which is just what I want. 

Can we run nines for less than $5? Well, lets find out. The cage, aftermarket axles, tires, disc brake upgrade, and other safety gear dont count towards the $5k. If it did then nobody could possibly run nines for $5k since the safety gear required costs almost that much on its own. Im thinkin it would only be one Banzai run in the nines anyway.

So I have one of my free 400 blocks with a good crank. Get some forged Tomahawk rods and pistons from PPR (or if Mr Pbody wants to get in on this I will get them from him) and have them all balanced. Rebuild and probably port the set of 7K3 heads since it will be using iron manifolds instead of headers. Run one of the Torker II intakes so there are no flow problems with a dual plane. Had those sitting around for years, and you can get them cheap online or at swap meets.

So $1200 for the heads, and about $1000 for the short block with machining, balancing, rods, pistons,rings, gaskets, and a new set of lifters using the old 288/296 UD cam. $400 for the turbos, a few hundred for the plumbing, wonder how much wastegates cost. The carb is pretty much free, and so are the mods for E85, so that leaves fuel system and suspension. Both of those depends on which car I run. The Ventura has a mono leaf, the T37 has 4 link and both of them need put back together and some metal work done. Since I can do all of that dirt cheap, it isnt a problem other than time. I could probably make some fiberglass parts on the cheap too.

So over the winter the engine will go together, probably be spring before I even decide on the car unless I get the T37 pulled up here next month/October. I wonder how long a Th350 will last behind that thing... Always have Th400s laying around too.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

wastegates 80-100 each on the low end....i am betting it will dip into the 9's with a light car that can hook and be pretty tough to beat. I was telling a few of my mustang buddies about it yesterday and they would like to get in on it.

turbo waste gate | eBay


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Its going on at bangshift.com. Tell the mustang guys to come on over, and its just for fun, no money, just bragging rights. There are no freebies, like someone selling you a set of Pro Stock heads for $50 or anything like that. Just a realistic $5k budget. DIY stuff is cool, its more of an exercise in what you can accomplish on your own with what you have. Purchase price of the car is included, so its a race for beaters.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i will let them know they have are good deal collectors too....LOL. all of this turbo talk gave me a thought on my turbo car, maybe a vette conversion into a 463 turbo Banshee....how fun would that be?....


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

the lighter car is definitely your friend. im looking forward to updates on this.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

389 TT HX35's 1967 GTO 'vert 5spd TKO600, Meth, Intercooler etc - PONTIAC ZONE TECH FORUMS



There were some videos of this thing running down the road. I can't find them now.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Me on my 2008 Hayabusa. This is right by Bigfoot shop in St Louis. 270 west bound and Lindbergh Road.


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