# Seeking Advice on Rear Coil Springs



## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

I have a 67 GTO hardtop. The previous owner installed one inch drop springs in the front but kept the original rear coil springs with 3 inch spacers. I didn't care for the rear stance and removed the rear spacers. I'd like only a 1 inch lift in the rear. After reading many posts from prior years on rear spring options for achieving lift, I'd appreciate member advice on which of the following might be best route to take.
1. Keep original springs and install a 1 inch spacer. (inexpensive option)
2. Consider going with Coil Spring Specialites custom springs that would provide the 1 inch lift and eliminate any need for a spacer. (more expensive option)
3. Purchase station wagon springs to achieve lift. (though might this option provide too much lift? ( 2-3 inches)

My sense is that a one inch lift in the rear with the one inch drop in the front, would give the car a slight rake and the rear lift would not adversely affect steering and braking geometry. However, I'm a new goat owner, so I'd appreciate the thoughts from experienced owners. Thanks.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I would use OEM springs with 1" spacers. Wagons will get you up there but the ride will be like getting smacked with a 2x4


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I would use OEM springs with 1" spacers. Wagons will get you up there but the ride will be like getting smacked with a 2x4


Thanks armyadarkness! That’s certainly a more cost effective option after pricing out the CSS springs, though they state their springs firm up the ride and lessen body roll.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I've been looking around and thinking of going with the UMI 4048R stock height springs for better handling and not so much bounce on my '65. They have a 130lb linear spring rate.


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> I've been looking around and thinking of going with the UMI 4048R stock height springs for better handling and not so much bounce on my '65. They have a 130lb linear spring rate.


Thanks Baaad. I'll look into these.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

...


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I would use OEM springs with 1" spacers. Wagons will get you up there but the ride will be like getting smacked with a 2x4


I have station wagon springs...here's a post Great rear springs for early model GTO | Pontiac GTO Forum that I made.
They ride perfectly fine.


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

Mine'sa66 said:


> I have station wagon springs...here's a post Great rear springs for early model GTO | Pontiac GTO Forum that I made.
> They ride perfectly fine.


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

Mine'sa66 said:


> I have station wagon springs...here's a post Great rear springs for early model GTO | Pontiac GTO Forum that I made.
> They ride perfectly fine.


Thanks for sharing 66! This helps in my decision making knowing the amount of lift you can expect from wagon springs. I’m looking for less lift but for other members seeking this level of rise wagon springs could be a viable option. Good information!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Mine'sa66 said:


> I have station wagon springs...here's a post Great rear springs for early model GTO | Pontiac GTO Forum that I made.
> They ride perfectly fine.


Well then Im very intrigued. Every time a 66-67 GTO owner tells me that they fit 265 or larger tires under their car, with just springs, I look and see air shocks or load levelers, too.

Im shocked that this is all working for you and you have a nice ride, especially since you're using empty air shocks. 

I love a high car and Id put wagon springs in tomorrow if theyd allow me to use 265 tires, without bottoming out. In the past, they made a very rough ride.

My only concern with your setup is that you used a non BOP rear, so Im wondering if the backspacing is now different? I thought those Chevy rears were narrower?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I just did a bit of research on those wagon springs. It's worth noting that they are only listed as fitting up to 1966. So more research is needed. This is mine with UMI OEM and 1" spacer. Not the best angle, but Im at work so I dont have many pics. It definitely sits "proud"


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice, and the yellow one ain't bad either...wow !


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Nice, and the yellow one ain't bad either...wow !


Yeah the yellow car is registered, but driving it on the street anymore is a stretch. Plus it has a chevy big block, but its a genuine 242


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Well then Im very intrigued. Every time a 66-67 GTO owner tells me that they fit 265 or larger tires under their car, with just springs, I look and see air shocks or load levelers, too.
> 
> Im shocked that this is all working for you and you have a nice ride, especially since you're using empty air shocks.
> 
> ...


The later Chevy rears are different width. The early ones are identical. Yes, I will be changing out the flat air shocks for something better, but the ride is fine now, so I'm procrastinating 
Note that the AC springs I'm using are variable rate, so that's helping the ride substantially.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I just did a bit of research on those wagon springs. It's worth noting that they are only listed as fitting up to 1966. So more research is needed. This is mine with UMI OEM and 1" spacer. Not the best angle, but Im at work so I dont have many pics. It definitely sits "proud"
> View attachment 146715


They changed the spring perches in early 67. You'll have to know which you have if you're wanting the AC spring for a 67.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

mINE IS A LATE 67, DEPENDING ON WHEN THE CHANGE WAS DONE


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

sorry for the caps


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

Great discussion, guys! Love the stance on your 67 Army. That's the look I'm after.


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I just did a bit of research on those wagon springs. It's worth noting that they are only listed as fitting up to 1966. So more research is needed. This is mine with UMI OEM and 1" spacer. Not the best angle, but Im at work so I dont have many pics. It definitely sits "proud"
> View attachment 146715


Army, did you use global west spacers? If so, did you bolt them down? I don't see a hole in the middle of the spacer to do this, so wondering if they just sit in the spring seat?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Sdpepper said:


> Army, did you use global west spacers? If so, did you bolt them down? I don't see a hole in the middle of the spacer to do this, so wondering if they just sit in the spring seat?


My entire suspension is global west, Front, back, upper, lower. No, my spacers are not bolted down. And... between last night and my lunch break just now, I've laid about 1000 feet of rubber with WOT 5000rpms shifts.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Sdpepper said:


> Great discussion, guys! Love the stance on your 67 Army. That's the look I'm after.


It's odd... standing next to it my car sits high, but in those pics I feel like it looks low. Don't get me wrong... it's no gasser, but I like them to have an aggressive, intimidating stance. I have DOugs headers and I can change my oil EASILY without jacks... which is in itself enough of a reason for me to like the car high.

Here are better pics.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Army, The stance on your white GTO is just what I will be after when mine is close to the road. It's perfect IMO. The actual height is not so critical to me, but I am after a level stance to a slight rake. My budget will not afford the higher end suspension parts (probably), but I think I will approach the stance with new stock springs and use spacers to achieve the final look. Springs can be a real hit or miss effort when it comes to a picky opinion on stance. Stock springs will likely be too low for me in the back. Spacers will be acceptable for my rather stock suspension and handling goals and also allow for affordable adjustments (instead of potentially trying different springs to get "the look").

*Questions*...Assuming the new stock front springs give my desired front end height and 2" spacers put the rear where I want it....Should I expect to need adjustable rear upper control arms so the differential angle can be set properly to the driveshaft?

Army, do you car to share your rocker clearance dimensions for height? (See attached page from 67 assy manual)

Funny thing about stance...my project has the "launch look", probably due to oddball tire/wheel sizes, wore out rear springs, and the stock stance that they tended to have...so, it drives me crazy to have to look at it point up while working in the shop. I jacked it up and inserted some wood blocks in the rear springs so it sits level. lol


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

To my knowledge, my Global West arms did nothing for the height. I attribute the height to the UMI OEM spec springs... Which BTW, when I completed the car, the front sat ever so slightly higher... but it was enough to drive me insane, so on when the 1" spacers.

For the record, I did add the GW frame stiffners out back, cause they were cheap and MUCH easier to do all at once, but I didnt go for the adjustable ones and I have no issues. I would use QA1 or UMI without hesitation.

I wound up with Global West for a few simple reasons... My 70 vette needed bushings in the arms and I could not get the job done to my satisfaction. I tried to buy oem replacement arms, but thanks to the pandemic, there were none. GW stuff was the only thing available, so I bit the bullet. Then, once I saw their quality and compared it to what I wouldve gotten, I was thankful that I had. In some realms, you do still get what you pay for. My vette, sitting high-as-Hell with BFG 245 60's, handles like a Porche.

So when I found out that three of the eight bushings on my GTO were gone, I didn't even bother trying anything other than the GW route. Their bearing design is super cool, and the owner of the company owns and races a GTO. They answer the phone when you call, too!

Well, I drive like a nut. My car is no trailer queen. I put a few hundred miles on it every weekend... balls to the wall the whole time. I like how predictable it is with these parts.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes I can get some measurements later


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> It's odd... standing next to it my car sits high, but in those pics I feel like it looks low. Don't get me wrong... it's no gasser, but I like them to have an aggressive, intimidating stance. I have DOugs headers and I can change my oil EASILY without jacks... which is in itself enough of a reason for me to like the car high.


 I dont see how yours is high. Lower and they start to look like you have fender skirts. I know your a vette guy but I literally rolled out of Fieros back in the day and had to explain what happened to my Class A.s 



Maybe they have hide away mats like they do the running boards. 









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RunningBoardWarehouse.com has running boards, nerf bars, bed steps, and more for your truck or SUV. Get fast, free shipping in the lower 48 United States.




runningboardwarehouse.com


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> I dont see how yours is high. Lower and they start to look like you have fender skirts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, well now you know why I don't care for the whole drop thing. And yes my Vette is close to the same height as my 67. If I could build one this height, I'd do it in a minute!!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Are those 4x4's


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## gtojoe68 (Jan 4, 2019)

Stance on Army's 67 is perfect. Very similar to my 68. I used straight up Moog OEM replacement springs from Ames when I swapped to 15" rims to accommodate disc brake conversion. Ames, Right Stuff conversion - basically a single piston 69-73 GM setup. stance works well and handles nicely (other than when all three teenagers of mine are in back seat). and no, that aint me walking in front of car. Just caught a friend while capturing a shot of BOP at a car show this fall. (or PBO if in order. HaHa)


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## gtojoe68 (Jan 4, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> View attachment 146744


a true gasser look. but maybe AMC Eagle? 😄


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

gtojoe68 said:


> Stance on Army's 67 is perfect. Very similar to my 68. I used straight up Moog OEM replacement springs from Ames when I swapped to 15" rims to accommodate disc brake conversion. Ames, Right Stuff conversion - basically a single piston 69-73 GM setup. stance works well and handles nicely (other than when all three teenagers of mine are in back seat). and no, that aint me walking in front of car. Just caught a friend while capturing a shot of BOP at a car show this fall. (or PBO if in order.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

gtojoe68 said:


> Stance on Army's 67 is perfect. Very similar to my 68. I used straight up Moog OEM replacement springs from Ames when I swapped to 15" rims to accommodate disc brake conversion. Ames, Right Stuff conversion - basically a single piston 69-73 GM setup. stance works well and handles nicely (other than when all three teenagers of mine are in back seat). and no, that aint me walking in front of car. Just caught a friend while capturing a shot of BOP at a car show this fall. (or PBO if in order. HaHa)
> 
> View attachment 146747
> View attachment 146749
> View attachment 146752





gtojoe68 said:


> Stance on Army's 67 is perfect. Very similar to my 68. I used straight up Moog OEM replacement springs from Ames when I swapped to 15" rims to accommodate disc brake conversion. Ames, Right Stuff conversion - basically a single piston 69-73 GM setup. stance works well and handles nicely (other than when all three teenagers of mine are in back seat). and no, that aint me walking in front of car. Just caught a friend while capturing a shot of BOP at a car show this fall. (or PBO if in order. HaHa)
> 
> View attachment 146747
> View attachment 146749
> View attachment 146752


Nice ride, love the color 👍


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

gtojoe68 said:


> Stance on Army's 67 is perfect. Very similar to my 68. I used straight up Moog OEM replacement springs from Ames when I swapped to 15" rims to accommodate disc brake conversion. Ames, Right Stuff conversion - basically a single piston 69-73 GM setup. stance works well and handles nicely (other than when all three teenagers of mine are in back seat). and no, that aint me walking in front of car. Just caught a friend while capturing a shot of BOP at a car show this fall. (or PBO if in order. HaHa)
> 
> View attachment 146747
> View attachment 146749
> View attachment 146752


Your car looks great!


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I would use OEM springs with 1" spacers. Wagons will get you up there but the ride will be like getting smacked with a 2x4


I have your typical McBay bolt down 1” spacers on OEMs, rear stance is now fine, after dropping each side, I was able to get them under the ‘64s rear springs without removing arms, I have airs as needed but their each currently set at their minimal pressures and it all works for me, prob should upgrade to Bilsteins one day but all is well for now


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

Jetzster said:


> I have your typical McBay bolt down 1” spacers on OEMs, rear stance is now fine, after dropping each side, I was able to get them under the ‘64s rear springs without removing sways, I have airs as needed but their each currently set at their minimal pressures and it all works for me, prob should upgrade to Bilsteins one day but all is well for now
> View attachment 146800
> 
> View attachment 146824
> ...


Jetzer, that’s what I’m going with too. OEM springs with one inch spacers. Nice ride and love the color!!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Jetzster said:


> I have your typical McBay bolt down 1” spacers on OEMs, rear stance is now fine, after dropping each side, I was able to get them under the ‘64s rear springs without removing sways, I have airs as needed but their each currently set at their minimal pressures and it all works for me, prob should upgrade to Bilsteins one day but all is well for now
> View attachment 146800
> 
> View attachment 146824
> View attachment 146826


Man that looks SWWEET!!! Torq Thrust D's, redlines, and blue!

Yeah get youself some cheap Sphon zero-bind lower shock mounts and Bilsteins!


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Man that looks SWWEET!!! Torq Thrust D's, redlines, and blue!
> 
> Yeah get youself some cheap Sphon zero-bind lower shock mounts and Bilsteins!
> View attachment 146828


Do Bilsteins really make that much of a difference in ride quality over new stock shocks like KYG’s, for example? I’m not planning to take my car to the raceway, just enjoy driving it around town. Yet, Bilstein’s are mentioned often thus the question.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Thanks Army, will do those are neat mounts!👍yep same here, I always heard Bilsteins are the smoothest ride and are a vast improvment over KYGs


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

Jetzster said:


> Thanks Army, will do those are neat mounts!👍yep same here, I always heard Bilsteins are the smoothest ride and are a vast improvment over KYGs


I checked out the Sphon website and found shock mounts but it seems they are listed for chevys. No mention of gto’s. Are the Chevy mounts a direct fit for our goats, or am I reading this wrong?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes... Bilsteins are a very large improvement over everything else that Ive ever tried. 35 years, 60-something cars... You can absolutely feel where the money went.

As for the Sphon mounts, I have to believe that chevy and pontiac are the same, but not sure. I ordered mine off ebay.


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Yes... Bilsteins are a very large improvement over everything else that Ive ever tried. 35 years, 60-something cars... You can absolutely feel where the money went.
> 
> As for the Sphon mounts, I have to believe that chevy and pontiac are the same, but not sure. I ordered mine off ebay.


Thanks again, Army! I'll check eBay too.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

No Bind Lower Rear Shock Relocation Mounting Brackets | 1964-1977 GM A-Body | eBay


Our lower rear shock relocation mounting brackets rotate the bottom of the rear shock to eliminate lower shock mount bind. The bottom of the rear shock is rotated 90Â° from factory clocking and mounted inside of a double shear mounting clevis.



www.ebay.com


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## slingshot (Aug 22, 2021)

Good thread. I have a somewhat related question. My '71 sits great in the rear but too low for my taste in the front. Had Hotchkis springs installed at some point in the past so it handles and rides pretty good for a 50 y/o muscle car. However, I would like the front to sit approximately 1" higher without affecting the handling too much. Suggestions?


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## pontiachristopher (Jun 28, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> View attachment 146744


thats a gasser, saw it on ebay or somwhere, 64 , always liked them racecars,seen a few different ones, willys? cool


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## gtojoe68 (Jan 4, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> No Bind Lower Rear Shock Relocation Mounting Brackets | 1964-1977 GM A-Body | eBay
> 
> 
> Our lower rear shock relocation mounting brackets rotate the bottom of the rear shock to eliminate lower shock mount bind. The bottom of the rear shock is rotated 90Â° from factory clocking and mounted inside of a double shear mounting clevis.
> ...


Do these relocation mounts really help? I've still got to add my UMI lower control arms someday (got away from me this summer) - and would do at same time. Not to mention my KYB shocks are probably over 15yrs old now as well.. Bilstein worth the $$$?


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## Sdpepper (Jun 3, 2021)

gtojoe68 said:


> Do these relocation mounts really help? I've still got to add my UMI lower control arms someday (got away from me this summer) - and would do at same time. Not to mention my KYB shocks are probably over 15yrs old now as well.. Bilstein worth the $$$?


I don’t have either but I’m sure Army and other members can weigh in on your questions.


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## goat671 (Apr 13, 2019)

My issue is that I need to remove the studs installed in the shocks and keep a bushing


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

gtojoe68 said:


> Do these relocation mounts really help? I've still got to add my UMI lower control arms someday (got away from me this summer) - and would do at same time. Not to mention my KYB shocks are probably over 15yrs old now as well.. Bilstein worth the $$$?


IMO, yes they work well, which is to say that from a geometry stand point, they make a lot more sense. They're not very expensive, although they do require a bit if tinkering to get them installed right ,depending on your shock brand. I put a lot of miles on my GTO and it rides very nice... and I lay rubber EVERYWHERE... but no "one thing" is responsible for it. I think that it's all of the parts working together.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

goat671 said:


> My issue is that I need to remove the studs installed in the shocks and keep a bushing


That's a very good question/ observation. That's why I mentioned "tinkering". If you have Bilsteins, like me, then you have a fixed stud on the shock. I had to cut it off with a cutoff wheel, and then get new bushings from NAPA.

So I think it was all worth it, but as I mentioned, when you consider how sloppy and inefficient these old designs are, every bit helps.


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## pontiachristopher (Jun 28, 2020)

pontiachristopher said:


> thats a gasser, saw it on ebay or somwhere, 64 , always liked them racecars,seen a few different ones, willys? cool


racecar spelled backwards is racecar


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