# Is The End Near???



## GTO_400 (Jul 7, 2005)

Well from what I have read I believe GM will stop importing the GTO as well as all her bros. and sisters, with the rising gas prices as well as GM pushing back the release of the new GTO until 2009 :willy: I really believe it's over and what a shame it will be, I would really like to see Chevy come back with the Camaro and Chevelle as well as the EL Camino but to quote GM "...we are canceling all vehicles planned off the Zeta architecture..." the backchat out of Detroit is the programs are actually on hold, but with a hard deadline for a final go/no-go decision, personally I think GM wants everyone in these small what I call disposable cars the ones you run about 3-4 years and have to buy another one, they'll sell more and make a bigger profit on these than the muscle cars, GM really needs to find out what the people want and build that instead of the junk they are trying to sell now while scratching their heads wondering why there sells are down :confused come on GM build it and we will come... what do ya'll think ?


----------



## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

What do people want? GTO or Accord coupe or Mustang? The sales numbers speak for themsleves. people want solaras, not gtos. look at the solara inspired g6 coupe.


----------



## GTO_400 (Jul 7, 2005)

I bet if they would produce as many GTOs, Chevelles and Camaros as Mustangs and
those hondas and keep the price within reach of most buyers i bet you would not see hardly none of these front drive 4 bangin imports as you see today


----------



## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

you must not have dealt with GMs customer service department lately. no matter how good the cars are, after one or two encounters with the dealers service dept and then GMs outsourced customer depts one feels as if GM is practically begging you to go to the competition.

The accord V6 is loaded for about 25k. timex reliability, less $$$ and better resale. not to mention if it is more reliable than a GM product there is less of a chance one will have to deal with the inept customer service people.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Tom said:


> you must not have dealt with GMs customer service department lately. no matter how good the cars are, after one or two encounters with the dealers service dept and then GMs outsourced customer depts one feels as if GM is practically begging you to go to the competition.
> 
> The accord V6 is loaded for about 25k. timex reliability, less $$$ and better resale. not to mention if it is more reliable than a GM product there is less of a chance one will have to deal with the inept customer service people.


Timex reliability???? What about power window regulators on the Honda's that fail all the time? What about the 5 spd auto's that fail at 70k?

Come on Tom admit it, you have a bias against American cars. That might be based off of some past experience, but all manufacturers have problems. You constantly try to make it seem like it is only GM. 

I had a Nissan in 2002. Not only did they not fix the car, but I had to talk to their outsourced customer diservice department too. They did nothing. I couldn't get a rental while they worked on my car and they had to keep it for 3 days. I got the car back worse than when I started. The power windows on 2 windows were slow and they fixed it by lubricating the tracks. The windows were still slow, and now they left streaks of lubricant on the glass everytime I lowered them. The answer, keep cleaning the windows and it will go away. It's normal for some windows to be as much as half the speed of others. The growling I here from them can not be duplicated. The differential was replaced and the car ended up with torque steer and still had the whine I complained about. The tranny crunched every other shift. I was told with experience I would be able to shift better and get less gear grind. The biggest problem was the A/C that couldn't cool a car on an 80 degree day. Their answer was it operated normally. 15-20 degrees temperature drop is the best that they can expect. The sun in Pittsburgh is hard to overcome. No other manufacturer has an effective A/C unit thanks to R134. 
My Chevy dealer that I take the GTO to is the best. They had about 3/4 of a qt of Mobil One after their last Vette oil change so they used that and only charged me for 6 qts. They do a reasonbly priced oil change. When 
I had my Vette they got me in quick when I had problems. Got the parts quick and serviced it correctly. They provided loaners even though my car was out of waranty and even got GM to warranty a computer for the traction control with it being 6 months out of warranty. 
My brother paid for tire rotations on his Toyota Avalon. At 15k the front tire were shot because he never rotated them. The dealer and Toyota both said sorry tires are a wear item. When he asked the service manager why his tires wore funny the guy had the nerve to tell he must be driving the car wrong. Truth is they never rotated his tires. That was what he was told first, then when he produced the receipts for the rotations the story changes. His wife drives the car and has probably never once squealed the tires. 
Sorry about the long rant here, but I'm extremely tired of hearing how bad GM is when the real truth is they are all bad. They are also good when you take the time to talk to people and find a good dealer. 
Another thing, Solara sales suck. At least in Florida. I went to my Toyota dealer to look at a Solara before buying the GTO. They didn't have any or know when they were getting one. The dealer I did find one at had 6, but none were sticks. They looked and found about 100 in the state of Florida and none were sticks, which led him to tell me that even though they show a stick in literature they really don't make them because the Auto is so good.
The Accord coupe I looked at, they had advertised at invoice. You don't discount a hot seller. Coupes in general don't sell well. Ford is using a great strategy with the Mustang. That's why they are flying off dealers lots and they are not discounting the GT. GM needs to learn from Ford's marketing of the Mustang.


----------



## Phantom05 (Jul 13, 2005)

I don't think that GM/Pontiac will cancel out the GTO any time soon. Sales numbers for the 05's are doing well and since the only other V8 RWD sports/musclecars are the 'Vette and the 3 that Caddilac offer I think that phasing the GTO out would be a bad decision and I'm sure GM knows this. 
It has been metioned that there will be a break in production for the Goat for a possible new model. If GM decides in that time to cancel the GTO, I will be savoring my '05 and having a blast with it, but I believe she is gonna be here for a while. But only the future will tell what will happen, so I will be waiting for news from GM, not a magazine who can only suspect and predict (especially one that believes in a "gotta have it factor"  )


----------



## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

I think the end is near for this round of muscle cars as we know them (gas based muscles cars). I am actually pleasantly surprised that American cersion Muscle cars even came back. But I think they came back a tad too late. Look how long we have had SUVs and how they have been getiing bigger and bigger, yet they are not any more effecient than our Muscle cars. Look how long the Germans have been making big engine cars sedans 500, 560, 600 model cars. Mercedes and BMW (760iL) have cars in their V-8 stables that have engines as bigger or bigger than most American cars have. Heck even the Nissan and Toyota intoduced V-8 (RWD) cars and light pick up trucks in the stable lineups too. All the while Chtysler had no V-8 RWD, GM lost the Impala, Ford the Crown Vic et al was the last one standing. Meanwhile none of these Euro V-8 are more fuel effecient than an GTO. That is why I say it is tad too late now with the Gas prices we are seeing, now the tide is shifting, we all know we will never see the $1.50 Premium gas prices anyomre lets face it. So where do we go from here in IMO?

Part II - Well I dont have a crystal ball but here is food for thought. Have you noticed that the Japanese makers especially, Toyota and Honda are fully into Hybrids and that these cars range from compacts (Civic and Corollas) to full size sedans, and they are making the grades in terms of HP? For example go online and look at the 2007 Lexus GS450-H this car looses nothing in terms of power and is looked at as a V-8 etc. Where are the Americans in this technology? The Germans are also behind in this in terms of cars in their stable and so is Nissan. Honda and Toyota already setting the curve with a stable of Hybrids. If you don't think this is the wave of the future you have your head in the sand.  

"Lexus announced a second luxury hybrid vehicle today in New York. The all-new GS gets the two-powerplant treatment this time and will produce 300 horses with a 0-60 time under six seconds. It is a 3.5 L V-6 matched with the electric motor that will produce the same horsepower as the GS430’s petrol V-8. It’s an interesting move for the company to offer both with similar performance gains. No mileage numbers are available but the press release says “Similar to the average 2-liter, 4-cyl. compact sedan."

Part III - When Hybrids finally take off and they will, I predict that we will see Toyota surpass GM as the number one car maker. Heck! I say make hybrid SUVS and Pick up trucks that deliver the same power that the Gasoline models are making today. And please dont tell me it will cost too much or take too long to make these vehicles. Those car makers that are not prepared for this wave will be relegated to 2nd Class status in Car Mfg. 

Part IV - They tell me the Chinese and Koreans are coming and will be next new car makers on the block, well they need to make cars that are not 100% deepndent on Gasoline to compete.

Part V - One thing that is not going to change is America's driving habits for whatever reason you can come up with it wont change in the near future,meanwhile there is money to be made, cars to be made, and people will drive them. 

Finally - I want my American Muscle car and I am willing to settle for a hybrid, what do I care if it runs on air, just give me the heritage, the RWD, the power, and the performance to boot. Oh by the way, I WANT it to be made in the States. GM, you hear me? Make the damn thing here!!!


----------



## GTO_400 (Jul 7, 2005)

my local dealer has the best customer/service dept i seen in a while, besides that a honda accord for 25k? theres not a honda out there worth 20k and theres no way its gonna get better resale value than a GTO, come on how many people want a solara or that thing with the plastic fenders..element or something for 19k? still laughing at that one, gees i guess its what part of the country your in, but i do agree if GM drops the GTO it would be a mistake, while i have never owned an import just what family and friends drive none are really appling to me, and no matter if the gas goes to $5 a gallon im going to keep my SUV and my V8s, i also agree with Fergyflyer that theres not any good car makers out there, while i did have a bad exp. with the salsman, the man couldn't tell me nothing about the GTO and didn't know how to open the hood..I won't blame the dealer for his stupidity, i just hope he stays out of the service dept,...as for the GTO i guess only time will tell


----------



## Maddog (Aug 28, 2005)

Hey Guys and Gals,

I have a question. My buddy was at a dealer here in Michigan and they have a 2005 GTO with the Quick Silver Metallic paint I was interested in. I am not sure on how many miles my friend said it was dark and he could get in it to start but the dealer thought it was under 10K. Anyway, I was looking on line at the car and had a few questions. 

* Is this the last year for the GTO checking the incentives for 2006 there is no GTO listed? 
* what is the trim combination leather? 
* Do all Quicksilver vehicles have the Quicksilver Metallic Sport Appearance Package? 
includes front fascia extensions, side rocker moldings, rear fascia extensions with custom dual/dual exhaust tips. To complete the look order the unique spoiler and grille inserts.

* Is an automatic a dog or just as fun as a manual?
* I have a 16 month old daughter is this not a car you want to put a child seat in? She is forward facing but what are your experiences? I thought about getting the cool Simpson racing child seat it is wicked cool...for a child seat. 
(the simpson seat link --->http://shop.store.yahoo.com/gofast/sichsacarse.html) 
* any other complaints about the car?


----------



## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

GTO_400 said:


> is the end near?
> 
> 
> > hell yes...... bend over and grap your ankles and prepare to dismount.
> ...


----------



## Maddog (Aug 28, 2005)

> hell yes...... bend over and grap your ankles and prepare to dismount.
> 
> Ain't gonna be an 07, doubt an '08 and any thoughts of an '09 are probably just that. With the LS3 coming in FWD cars, ponyac will not need a RWD sports car. It will already have the Solstice. Once the Camaro/Firebird comes back, and it will, and my guess it will have a back opening rear door like the Ion and the same overall size as the current GTO. The GTO will again be dead.
> 
> It won't be needed.


So I guess you are saying that there won't be a 2006 GTO? Why am I bending over and grabbing my ankles? Is it a beeach to put in a child seat, or are you pisssed the General is not continuing the GTO?


----------



## GTO_400 (Jul 7, 2005)

* Is this the last year for the GTO checking the incentives for 2006 there is no GTO listed? The 2006 will be the last year for a while

* what is the trim combination leather? Il assume it means the leather seats w/ suade trim
* Do all Quicksilver vehicles have the Quicksilver Metallic Sport Appearance Package? No this will be a dealer add on, or your option

* Is an automatic a dog or just as fun as a manual? I have a manual and its a blast, but i bet the auto is also fun with 400hp its gotta be, and if i were you i would stick with the auto with your daughter in the car you already have your hands full, and also i heard people complain about the child seat getting in/out is a pain, so if this is going to be your only car you might want to look at something else, but im sure some one here has a child seat in there car so they can give there opnion... that is a sweet child seat looks like it belongs in the GTO


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

silvergoat05 said:


> GTO_400 said:
> 
> 
> > is the end near?
> ...


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Maddog said:


> Hey Guys and Gals,
> 
> I have a question. My buddy was at a dealer here in Michigan and they have a 2005 GTO with the Quick Silver Metallic paint I was interested in. I am not sure on how many miles my friend said it was dark and he could get in it to start but the dealer thought it was under 10K. Anyway, I was looking on line at the car and had a few questions.
> 
> ...


I have a Quicksliver GTO. ALL GTO's come with the same exterior look with the exception of the optional 18" wheels. The SAP must be ordered, and then installed. I have a 6 speed and love it. I just love the car period, even if I had an automatic. I prefer the 6 speed however. Trim combination for silver? You have a lot to chose from...... Either black, or red :lol:. Is the automatic a dog???? I hardly think so. Its rated slightly faster than the 6 speed in the 1/4, and from 0-60. From red light, to red light or doing 65-80mph who the heck cares???? The positive side of the 6 speed is: NO gas guzzler tax, and better MPG's.

As far as putting a child in the car. The front passenger seat has a 100 lb sensor attached to it. If the sensor indicates that there is under 100lbs the air bag will not deploy. It is recommend that children be put in the back seat IN A safety seat. It is a bit awkward getting in and out of it however. This was built as a muscle car not a family sedan. I would not hesitate to put a child in there. This car is solid. The steel is a heavier gauge than many other cars. This car is very well built. Are there issues? Some yes, do some research on here and you will find some. I'd say no more than any other new car.

The 2006 will look the same with a few upgrades. Some different color choices to chose from too. I hear the Quicksilver has been replaced with Nickelsilver, I am not sure however. No matter what color, or SAP or not, you will not go wrong the the GTO. Good Luck!


----------



## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

Maddog said:


> So I guess you are saying that there won't be a 2006 GTO? Why am I bending over and grabbing my ankles? Is it a beeach to put in a child seat, or are you pisssed the General is not continuing the GTO?


The heading of the thread was " Is the end near" . My opening comment was an attempt at a humorous response to it. 

I didn't say there was no 2006 model. That would have been foolish since we all know the 06 model is on the way. With different tail lights and a button for the door locks. The the Monaro has seen the last of the run. And since the GTO is based off of the Monaro........

I don't have kids that age any longer, and when I did, I made sure the wife had a four door. To me, a hot rod does not have 4 doors, a family car does. But no one said you can't have a fast family car. 

As for GM and the GTO. I'm not a Pontiac enthusiast. I've only owned one prior to this one. I've always liked Pontiac's styling, for the most part, and the handling/ride quality over it's Chevrolet counter part, but have always had a problem with the inflated price to own one. Had the dealer been more willing to deal, I'd be driving a corvette instead. 

So no, I'm not pissed at GM or the GTO. I think it is a great car for it's intended use and feel it is a great value and something GM should look at when doing the next platform as well as the quality of the vehicle overall. GMNA and it's employee's, as well as it's unions could learn a lot from the car.

The problem with the belief that the GTO will continue based on sales is that the union tied GM's hands on this vehicle. The union is more at fault than GM about it's demise in NA or it's lack of more vehicles for each model run. Which is why the dealers can put a Market Adjusted price on it and GM allows it.


----------



## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> FWD performance cars??????? You are joking right.


You haven't seen the Monte Carlo SS. A supercharged 3.8L? Impala SS? The current and soon to be different GXP? 

The current future for the SS models will be the 5.3 V8 FWD. And since they are being marketed as a "performance" vehicle, I say yes. With a curb weight under 3500 lbs and 300 HP on tap, that puts it squarely in the same performance level of the mustang and the same price of it as well. Besides, the Daytona and any "K" car was junk. But Dodge sold a butt load of them. Based mostly on price.

When GMNA releases the new Camaro, it will be squarely where the GTO is now. In addition, the new Monte Carlo is slated to be on the same chassis and be RWD as well. Word is, Pontiac's version will be the GXP.

GM needs to reduce vehicle models and options to survive. GM has been told this for years and is only now starting to do this. And in strictly a bussiness since, GM could do away with Pontiac or Buick. Niether have been big sales makers for them. Comsumers are more about cost and quality than the name on the vehicle.


----------



## Maddog (Aug 28, 2005)

*Thanks everyone*

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the good info. The GTO will be my driver, occasionally I put my daughter in the vehicle. So it is not a everyday thing but who cares you know what they say ... no pain no gain. 

Is there any trouble fitting golf clubs in the trunk??

Thanks again.


----------



## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

Maddog said:


> Is there any trouble fitting golf clubs in the trunk??
> Thanks again.


I hear that's all that fits. But then I don't golf :lol:


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Don't know how many golf clubs the trunk holds, but I got 42 clowns in the car.


----------



## RevnR6 (Aug 20, 2005)

Anyone know how many GTOs were made for '05? One thing I love about this car is they are very rare.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

RevnR6 said:


> Anyone know how many GTOs were made for '05? One thing I love about this car is they are very rare.


I hear different figures. I hear 12-15,000. I was told by my dealer in early spring only 8-9,000 were going to be built. I don't know for certain. But thats the figure I've been going by.


----------



## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> I hear different figures. I hear 12-15,000. I was told by my dealer in early spring only 8-9,000 were going to be built. I don't know for certain. But thats the figure I've been going by.


i believe i have the only one round here. got my goat back in may and only seen a black 04 one time. but i am very popular :seeya:


----------



## black on black GTO (Aug 24, 2005)

*Dont worry about the GTO, if they come out with this*

For you guys worrying about the GTO, I hope that doesn't happen but check out the pics for the supposed new 07 Camaro. If this goes through, it could be the hottest car that GM has ever made. Check this site out and let me know what ya think.

http://www.arkansascamaro.com/2007camaro.html


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

EEZ GOAT said:


> i believe i have the only one round here. got my goat back in may and only seen a black 04 one time. but i am very popular :seeya:


In my area I have only seen 1 black GTO, it was a 2004. Not many at all. Most are red around here and you can count them on one hand. I seen a 2004 Silver one and another 2005 silver GTO. And 1 yellow 04'. 

The less the better.


----------



## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> In my area I have only seen 1 black GTO, it was a 2004. Not many at all. Most are red around here and you can count them on one hand. I seen a 2004 Silver one and another 2005 silver GTO. And 1 yellow 04'.
> 
> The less the better.


 :agree the sleeper :willy:


----------



## spylab (May 14, 2005)

If gas prices continue as they are, any type of muscle car will undoubtedly be shelved. I mean, $3.09 for REGULAR up here? Christ, I am starting to wish I drove a CRX myself!


----------



## Maddog (Aug 28, 2005)

*GM will always kick jap A**!*



black on black GTO said:


> For you guys worrying about the GTO, I hope that doesn't happen but check out the pics for the supposed new 07 Camaro. If this goes through, it could be the hottest car that GM has ever made. Check this site out and let me know what ya think.
> 
> http://www.arkansascamaro.com/2007camaro.html


One thing you have to keep in mind is every year the auto companies have to meet the rising bar of vehicle requirements put in place by NHTSA. Depending on the model year of the vehicle the requirements could be tough for a older design to meet. An example of this is roof crush, to meet the new 2.5 times vehicle weight requirement the b-pillars may need to be re-engineered to meet the new requirements. Basically it comes down to a business case for each program how much does re-engineering cost vs re-designing the program for a later model year. 


I assure you there are many (1000's ) of passionate GM Employees that love cars and want to create exciting vehicles like the GTO. A good example of this is the Cadillac V-series all have a 0-60 under 5 seconds, the 2006 Corvette Z06, 505 hp, 0-60 in 3.7 sec just to name a few. GM is known as a performance leader and I bet they are not willing to give that position up. The GTO may disappear for a year or two but don't worry. It most likely will be back, stronger than it ever was.

As a side note, I am looking at getting a GTO, and I drove one yesterday and it is a sweet car. It looks cool, and has a great exhaust note, my feet got a little hot but hey when you have a 400 hp V8 stuffed under the hood who cares that is what air conditioning is for!!!!

Rock on GTO enthusiasts, and keep trashing the competition on the street let 'em feel the power of the GTO!!!!


----------



## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

Maddog said:


> A good example of this is the Cadillac V-series all have a 0-60 under 5 seconds, the 2006 Corvette Z06, 505 hp, 0-60 in 3.7 sec just to name a few. GM is known as a performance leader and I bet they are not willing to give that position up. The GTO may disappear for a year or two but don't worry. It most likely will be back, stronger than it ever was.!!!!


Those are good examples of GM's willingness to build performance cars, but they are out of the reach of more that can buy them than those that can.

Chevrolet used to mean economical fun. Now it's over priced warranty repairs and trucks.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

silvergoat05 said:


> Those are good examples of GM's willingness to build performance cars, but they are out of the reach of more that can buy them than those that can.
> 
> Chevrolet used to mean economical fun. Now it's over priced warranty repairs and trucks.


What about the Cobalt SS. It's in the 14's in the 1/4. Handles better than an Acura RSX. It costs in the low 20's. Maybe even high teens with employee pricing. That's bang for the buck.


----------



## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> What about the Cobalt SS. It's in the 14's in the 1/4. Handles better than an Acura RSX. It costs in the low 20's. Maybe even high teens with employee pricing. That's bang for the buck.


I don't fit in it comfortably. And it's fwd


----------

