# 1964/389



## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

Need a little direction on my build. After putting it together I found that I had water dripping into #1 and 3 some how? This was before break in on my test stand. So I either did something wrong or maybe I have a crack. Anyone ever have this issue? Any thoughts would be great before I start taking it back apart.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Bobcat 91 said:


> Need a little direction on my build. After putting it together I found that I had water dripping into #1 and 3 some how? This was before break in on my test stand. So I either did something wrong or maybe I have a crack. Anyone ever have this issue? Any thoughts would be great before I start taking it back apart.


Not knowing what you did with the engine, did you have the heads resurfaced to ensure they were not warped? Did you have the block checked to make sure it was not warped? Were the surfaces perfectly clean of all gasket material & age old residue?

Were the heads/block magnafluxed for cracks?

Did you match the head gasket up with both the block and cylinder head to make sure all your water holes lined up? Did the head gasket have a front/back or top/bottom positioning - as some do?

Are the alignment pins in the block installed correctly?

Were the heads ported and someone broke though a water jacket?

Did you run a thread chaser down the bolt holes in the block? Did you look in the holes to make sure no debris has fallen into the hole not allowing the head bolt to tighten? Did you put way too much oil on the bolt threads and it has dripped into the bolt hole causing hydraulic pressure not to allow the bolt to seat all the way down into the hole? - also good way to bust a block when the oil gets hot and expands.

Did you mill the head and NOT compensate on your head bolt length and now they are too long and bottoming out rather than tightening? If so, you may have busted the block. Did you use aftermarket bolts? If so, did you get the correct ones? RA IV bolts have a few longer than stock bolts and will not tighten up (ask me how I know). There are different length bolts used in the Pontiac head, did you install them in the correct holes? Did you torque the bolts in sequence and use three different torque values to evenly seat the heads?

Let's start with all that. :thumbsup:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Prime suspects would be a leaking head gasket, cracked cylinder head, or cracked block - I think. Also MAYBE if you're "lucky" you've got a leak on the water crossover AND a leak on those two intake ports that's letting the water in that way. How bad is the leak and how did you detect it?


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## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

I had all the typical machine work done. New valves and guide's in heads. I found it when it didn't start for break in. I pulled #1 to confirm tdc and the plug was wet with water. Stock bolts,deck height heads not cut. Torqued everything per spec's.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Ick... that doesn't sound good. When you put on the intake, did you tighten down the long bolt that goes to the tab on the timing cover before, or after you torqued down the rest of the intake bolts? (Should have done that one first unless you've split off the coolant crossover).

A few ideas on figuring it out: Maybe use a piece of plastic tubing in the spark plug hole to try to siphon out coolant to see how much is in there. Examine your oil to see if it's getting coolant in it. Pull the intake and try to figure out if it's getting in through the ports. If you're not concerned with 100% originality, split the coolant crossover away from the rest of the intake so that you can install/remove the intake separate from the crossover. Several advantages to doing that, including being able to line up your manifold with the heads better and also being able to pull the intake without opening up your cooling system. That way you could seal up the cooling system and turn the engine over with the intake removed and may see more of what's happening.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

PontiacJim said:


> RA IV bolts have a few longer than stock bolts and will not tighten up (ask me how I know).


I know the same thing for the same reason... :crying:

Bear


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

BearGFR said:


> I know the same thing for the same reason... :crying:
> 
> Bear


LOL. I wasn't about to buy another ARP bolt set, so another ARP washer was used under the longer head bolts as per the suggestion of the machine shop and off I went - no issues after that.

I don't think the intake is taking in water at the water crossover ONLY due to the mention that both #1 & #3 cylinder had water. If it was only #1 cylinder, I might agree - unless a real major malfunction of the intake gasket installation.


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## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

I took the top end off, saw nothing that jumped out on the intake. Next went the heads driver first, it was the bolt between 1 and 3 that little bugger was just a bit longer than all the rest. I don't think I cracked it, but I think I will have it checked just to be safe. (hopefully I wont be looking for a block)
Thanks for the help


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Some of the bolts are supposed to be longer. The way to tell is to drop them into the bolt holes with their washers, but don't tighten them or begin to screw them in. They should all sit at a uniform height above the head (or washer), about an inch. If you've got one in the wrong hole, it should stick out - literally 

Bear


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Stock head bolts don't have washers. It is the aftermarket ARP head bolts that have the washers due to their shoulder design under the head - just to clarify what BearGFR was referencing. You can drop the bolts down through the head while it is off and see the bolt thread "stick out." They should all be the same.

Well, leak found at least. Hopefully no damage.


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## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

Thanks guy's, These where the bolts that where in the motor when I got it. My mistake thinking they where good. Put that bolt back where it was? When I order another gasket set, it's coming with new head bolts.


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## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

I'm stumped, I have everything back together on my test stand. Wont fire? this is what i have battery pos. to starter big lug from lug to push button in, push button out to small s ,battery pos. to toggle in, toggle out to pos, side coil. I have petronix module 1181 red to pos, black to neg. I'm getting signal form mod to neg side coil. But only very very faint spark from coil wire. replaced coil with a new one no change?
Things I have changed so far, dist,coil,coil wire, have tried with and with out stone resistor? Hope this makes sense.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I don't see any mention as to where your negative battery cable is hooked up? Needs to be hooked up to the engine block. I would also ground a cable from the test stand to the engine. Make sure no fresh on the distributor where the clamp hold it down or paint under the contact point of the hold down clamp - you want good grounding to the distributor. 

Did you check the air gap at the module per the Pertronix instructions? http://www.pertronix.com/docs/instruction-sheets/1181.pdf Here is a video, but look at the video @ 2:41 and you will see a ground wire (factory) that has a screw holding it down right at the vacuum advance. Sometimes this ground wire can break or not make good enough contact and create problems. It grounds the points plate to the distributor housing which in turn is grounded through the block as noted above. Installing PerTronix 1181 Ignitor into standard Delco Remy Distributor


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## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

Thank you sir, Yes I forgot to mention the grounds, they are as you say. And yes it's a very pretty pontiac blue? I may have a grounding issue. stay tuned


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## Bobcat 91 (May 10, 2017)

Well it turns out the afco tac I have in the gauge panel, when hooked to coil was the problem.


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