# Barn find '65 GTO. Worth Asking Price?



## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

I found this '65 in a barn recently.










It's a 65 GTO 389/4 speed muncie. The body is solid, especially considering it's a Michigan car. Original paint and everything. Most everything is straight, except the drivers side door is a little messed up and interferes with the fender when opened. The interior is pretty well shot, the carpet is fine but the seats and headliner are junk. The floor has four smallish rectangular holes where a rollcage was once. Interestingly enough, it has a driveshaft loop and what looks to be a scatter-shield bell housing. He thinks the previous owner may have punched the engine to a 401 and built it with some go-fast parts. Currently it has an edelbrock intake with a 4 barrel on it. But he does have a complete tripower setup in the trunk! It's got open headers. I'm not sure if it was an original trip power car? I forgot to snag a pic of the vin tag. 






































It has been sitting in a shed of a barn for the last few years and hasn't ran in 2 years. He's owned it for six years and payed $6000 for it and that's what he wants back out of it.

Soooo, is it worth his asking price of $6000?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

If the PHS documents confirm it is a 4 speed, tri power car and the casting number on the block is correct that would be a good deal.


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

05GTO said:


> If the PHS documents confirm it is a 4 speed, tri power car and the casting number on the block is correct that would be a good deal.


I'm about certain that it isn't PHS documented. I'll have to check the block casting tomorrow. I'm pretty sure it's a 389/4speed car. I'm not sure about the tri power part. If it was indeed a 4bbl car would that devalue the car significantly? 

Is there any other way to determine its authenticity other than PHS? I'd rather not spend money on a car I haven't committed to yet. 

I did get a pic of the firewall tag:


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

So it was a 4 speed car and is indeed a real GTO


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

The 5N confirms that it is indeed a true GTO, if I were in the market for another project I would not hesitate to buy that car even if it came with the Carter AFB. The build date on the data plate was the 3rd week of May, the date stamp and casting number for the block are located on the distributor pad. The letter code for the block is on the front of the block just under the passenger side head. 

Nice find! :cheers


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

And the 2L confirms the 4 speed. Very cool find...:cheers


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## 67 GTO (Nov 26, 2011)

if you dont take it pass along the info!! lol


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

To answer your question... Yes it's worth 6k. No it won't devalue the car if it's a 4 brl car instead of tri power. Run the tri power anyway as it won't hurt value either. If it WAS a 4 brl car just search for a intake and carb and keep them set aside while running the tri power.


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

Yeah, if you're not going to buy it, I'll drive over from MN and get it lol.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Hard to say for sure, but if it's as solid as it looks and there's not much rust - it's worth $6k all day long...

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I would buy that car in a heartbeat for 6k. It would be worth that if it was an automatic with no options in that condition. If it is indeed a real tripower car, it is worth 10k plus in its present condition to the right buyer. Remember, born-with trips cars are worth 30% more or so than a 4bbl car. I would _JUMP ON IT._


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Indeed --- when I read about that car I was wishing I was closer to it. Mrs. Bear would probably be glad we don't ---- it looks just about perfect for what I'd want for my "next" project car.

Bear


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## blackplate65 (May 10, 2011)

i will take it !


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

damn, it's just down the street from me.....checking the cookie jar....


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys! I put a deposit on the car and I should have it by Early June. After a closer inspection, I found some bondo and a few areas with overspray. Definitely not the original paint. :/

The door VIN tag reads: 237375P295071

And the block casting number is: 9790071

If anyone could interpret those numbers I would appreciate it. Thanks again guys!


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## russosborne (Dec 6, 2010)

For that kind of money, some bondo and non-original paint mean nothing. That is a killer deal. I paid $3000 for a 70 LEMANS and I have to replace the body. 
Russ


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## xconcepts (Jan 4, 2009)

If you already put a downpayment, might as well spring for the PHS and find out everything.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

danoflapper said:


> Thanks for the input guys! I put a deposit on the car and I should have it by Early June. After a closer inspection, I found some bondo and a few areas with overspray. Definitely not the original paint. :/
> 
> The door VIN tag reads: 237375P295071
> 
> ...


9790071 is the block casting#, either a '68 or '69 400. There's a date code by the distributor, ex D108(last digit is the year).

Vin:
2 - pontiac
37 - Le Mans
37 - hardtop
5 - 1965
P - Pontiac, MI(assembly plant)
295071 - production number


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

hows the rear tailpanel? good luck with your find...rickm.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

68greengoat said:


> 9790071 is the block casting#, either a '68 or '69 400. There's a date code by the distributor, ex D108(last digit is the year).


In addition, the 8 bolt water pump was used in 68 and the 11 bolt was used in 69.


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

russosborne said:


> For that kind of money, some bondo and non-original paint mean nothing. That is a killer deal. I paid $3000 for a 70 LEMANS and I have to replace the body.
> Russ


That does make this car sound like a bargain in comparison. I can't wait to drive it!




xconcepts said:


> If you already put a downpayment, might as well spring for the PHS and find out everything.


Yep, that is the plan here shortly.



68greengoat said:


> 9790071 is the block casting#, either a '68 or '69 400. There's a date code by the distributor, ex D108(last digit is the year).
> 
> Vin:
> 2 - pontiac
> ...


Really? Awww I was hoping it would be the original 389. Just to clarify, I pulled this number from right behind the passenger side head. 

Okay I'll look for the code near the distributor on Saturday. Thanks 



rickm said:


> hows the rear tailpanel? good luck with your find...rickm.












That's the best I could do for now. Looks good to me! Thanks Rick.



05GTO said:


> In addition, the 8 bolt water pump was used in 68 and the 11 bolt was used in 69.


Can you tell that this is a 400 just by looking at it? I've been told that the 400 is just a punched out 389. I better brush up on my pontiac history and trivia. 


I'm so excitedd! arty:

Can I get new interior parts from somewhere?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

danoflapper said:


> Can you tell that this is a 400 just by looking at it? I've been told that the 400 is just a punched out 389. I better brush up on my pontiac history and trivia.
> 
> 
> I'm so excitedd! arty:
> ...


A couple things I noticed by looking at the pictures you posted, the alternator bracket is not correct for 65 and the double groove pulleys without A/C or PS. Some changes from 66 (389) to 67 (400) include adding the car's VIN to the front of the block (mid year), moving the casting number from the distributor pad to behind the #8 cylinder (mid year) and in 69 Pontiac changed the water pump to a larger water pump to better cool these engines.
400 also used a slightly larger valve cover and they cast 400 on the side of the block.

Congrats on the purchase and I look forward to watching you progress thru the restoration. There are several companies reproducing GTO interiors and almost every part can be found.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Correct motor or not, you scored on the car. It was worth more than you paid even if it had no engine or trans at all. It looks straight and unmolested....just like I used to find them 25+ years ago!! Excellent going, and we'll try to help you get it back on the road.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

great score, actually had that on my list, but am more inclined to a firebird project right now...i would have snatched that up in a minute though if i would have went to look at it. Looks super clean for a rust belt car.


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## RustWrangler (Sep 15, 2011)

Nice Find! you did great and welcome to the group  like the others said there are a few companies making the interior parts for our cars, I was just looking at the AMES and Performance Years catalogs yesterday and they both sell complete interior kits. 

Good luck and cant wait to see you bring it back to life!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

danoflapper said:


> Really? Awww I was hoping it would be the original 389. Just to clarify, I pulled this number from right behind the passenger side head.
> 
> Okay I'll look for the code near the distributor on Saturday. Thanks


Also get the stamped engine code located on the front of the block, passenger side, below the head(ex. WS). Then we can also tell you the hp rating and other info. While your at it, look for the head casting number on the center exhaust port(ex. 16) if you want.....

As others have said, even tho it doesn't have the 389, it's still a nice find....


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

danoflapper said:


> Thanks for the input guys! I put a deposit on the car and I should have it by Early June. After a closer inspection, I found some bondo and a few areas with overspray. Definitely not the original paint. :/
> 
> The door VIN tag reads: 237375P295071
> 
> ...


Yep that's a 400. To know which variety we need the 4-digit date code and the 2-digit engine code. 

But didn't you say the original engine was out of the car and available? Snag the three codes off that one.

Bear


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

68greengoat said:


> Also get the stamped engine code located on the front of the block, passenger side, below the head(ex. WS). Then we can also tell you the hp rating and other info. While your at it, look for the head casting number on the center exhaust port(ex. 16) if you want.....
> 
> As others have said, even tho it doesn't have the 389, it's still a nice find....


Thanks a ton! I will grab those numbers tomorrow sometime.





BearGFR said:


> Yep that's a 400. To know which variety we need the 4-digit date code and the 2-digit engine code.
> 
> But didn't you say the original engine was out of the car and available? Snag the three codes off that one.
> 
> Bear


Nope the original engine isn't around. But he does have a tripower setup. I assume that the tri power intake will bolt right up?


RustWrangler said:


> Nice Find! you did great and welcome to the group  like the others said there are a few companies making the interior parts for our cars, I was just looking at the AMES and Performance Years catalogs yesterday and they both sell complete interior kits.
> 
> Good luck and cant wait to see you bring it back to life!


Thanks  I just ordered an AMES catalog. I can't wait to have a good interior in it. It is SHOT



05GTO said:


> A couple things I noticed by looking at the pictures you posted, the alternator bracket is not correct for 65 and the double groove pulleys without A/C or PS. Some changes from 66 (389) to 67 (400) include adding the car's VIN to the front of the block (mid year), moving the casting number from the distributor pad to behind the #8 cylinder (mid year) and in 69 Pontiac changed the water pump to a larger water pump to better cool these engines.
> 400 also used a slightly larger valve cover and they cast 400 on the side of the block.
> 
> Congrats on the purchase and I look forward to watching you progress thru the restoration. There are several companies reproducing GTO interiors and almost every part can be found.


Thanks for helping me out! I'll get back to you on the other block numbers


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes, the tripower will bolt right onto the 400. No issues at ALL.


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## SlamminGears65Goat (Apr 29, 2012)

You absolutely did the right thing, twice, in fact. Coming here for advice, and buying that Goat! I'm restoring my 65, and this is a great place for advice. I'm a novice at it, but I'm learning as I go. Don't be shy about asking questions, these guys are very generous with their advice, as you've already seen. I'll be glad to share any and all of my experience of my resto as you go on your journey. I am looking forward to seeing that baby spruced up and back on the road!
Welcome to the herd. 
P.S. I would have driven from MA to buy that Goat for 6k!
Nice find!


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## KingJacobo (Jul 6, 2011)

Awesome find! Body looks great for a barn find. I hope you enjoy sanding, LOL! :cheers


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

geeteeohguy said:


> Yes, the tripower will bolt right onto the 400. No issues at ALL.


That is great news! The tripower will definitely be added eventually. I'm planning on getting it safe to drive and crusing it for the remainder of the summer. This winter It will get an all new interior, and the tripower for sure. Maybe go through the engine and freshen it up. Disk brake conversion up front potentially. And a fresh coat of paint.



SlamminGears65Goat said:


> You absolutely did the right thing, twice, in fact. Coming here for advice, and buying that Goat! I'm restoring my 65, and this is a great place for advice. I'm a novice at it, but I'm learning as I go. Don't be shy about asking questions, these guys are very generous with their advice, as you've already seen. I'll be glad to share any and all of my experience of my resto as you go on your journey. I am looking forward to seeing that baby spruced up and back on the road!
> Welcome to the herd.
> P.S. I would have driven from MA to buy that Goat for 6k!
> Nice find!



I'm glad I came here, lots of friendly knowledge to go around, that is for sure! Thanks GearSlammer  

P.S. I'm glad to hear responses like that, how lucky I am to live 5 miles from this thing! 



KingJacobo said:


> Awesome find! Body looks great for a barn find. I hope you enjoy sanding, LOL! :cheers


Yeah, I was definitely impressed. It looks better in pictures than in person, but it is not terrible by any means. I did find bondo in quite a few places, but I'm pretty sure it's not there to cover rust.

I am pretty familiar with sanding. I painted my crew cab long box pickup last fall. You only realize how big that thing is until it's time to wash, park, or sand it!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

where in the enchanted mitten are you located Dano? I live near Metro Airport, hope to see you around at the cruises and shows, just look for the Blue Tempest. I hear you on sanding, these things ain't small either, did mine just over a year ago. Thats a great foundation at a great price, congrats.....:cheers arty:


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

Well I finally went and collected the block and head codes today 

I am quite happy with what I have found. When you guys first pointed out it was not in fact a 389, i was worried it was going to be gutless 400 out of a station wagon. But it is indeed a '69 Ram Air III 

The block date code reads: C289 . March 28, 1969

The Drivers side head date code reads: C189. March 18, 1969

Passenger side date: C319. March 31, 1969

Both heads have the 48 ID code.

Any comments would be appreciated


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

So I take it the engine id is either WQ or WS and not WT(it out performs a WQ anyway)? At 10.75, you have a little compression going on...

1969 400 335 HP WQ M 10.75 068 *48 *1-4 7028273/7029273 RA III Block Casting # *9790071* 
1969 400 350 HP WT M 10.75 068 *48* 1-4 7029263 non-RA Block Casting # *9790071* 
1969 400 366 HP WS M 10.75 068/744 *48* 1-4 7028273/7029273 RA III Block Casting # *9790071*


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## 646904GTO (Feb 10, 2008)

Nice find The paint code L means it is still its original teal turquoise color. I had one many years ago that color with 389/4bbl 4 speed and a dealer optioned 4.33 gear. Your car is what I have been searching for to replace the one I had...I still have the 4.33 gear set for it. I would sell my 64 to get a 65.


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## Penskecat (Feb 13, 2012)

I realize my input is probably not all that useful at this point, but I think it's a good buy. Oh, and this input has nothing to do with the fact that '65s are my favorite pre-'68 models.


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

68greengoat said:


> So I take it the engine id is either WQ or WS and not WT(it out performs a WQ anyway)? At 10.75, you have a little compression going on...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nevermind, apparently it is not a RA? The engine is infact the WT model. What all does that entail? Can i run this thing on pump gas safely? And a lead substitute would be a good idea?



646904GTO said:


> Nice find The paint code L means it is still its original teal turquoise color. I had one many years ago that color with 389/4bbl 4 speed and a dealer optioned 4.33 gear. Your car is what I have been searching for to replace the one I had...I still have the 4.33 gear set for it. I would sell my 64 to get a 65.


Yep,it isn't the orignal paint, but it is probably pretty close to the same shade. Is there a way to tell the gears from any numbers on the car? What is a good guess? 


Penskecat said:


> I realize my input is probably not all that useful at this point, but I think it's a good buy. Oh, and this input has nothing to do with the fact that '65s are my favorite pre-'68 models.


 Mine too! I lucked out it was a 65 for sure!


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## pontiac (Mar 6, 2011)

get the PHS first before you buy. data plate can be changed.


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## injn37 (Nov 16, 2008)

Dan, 
Sent my 65 interior to Legendary Auto . Sent them the front and rear seats. They took them apart, sandblasted the metal, replaced all foam and jute, and re- did them in period vinyl. They also made all my door panels, sail panels, and rear quarter panels, and headliner. Had them done in 65 metal red. Interior came out beyond awesome, and it was not expensive. If I remember correctly , it was around 3k for everything! I can send pict if you would like.
Also, check the tri- power. Center carb should be smaller then the outers to be a 64 or 65. If it is the same size, it is a 66.

GREAT FIND!

rich. :cheers


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

Well, I finally ended up getting the car after a long ordeal of securing a title for it and it turned out to be a lot rougher than I first thought. The car is covered in bondo. I'm pretty sure the rockers are solid bondo. Part of the trunk pan is GONE! The floor pans are questionable in spots and it's got plenty of dents. But... It fired right up after I pumped out ten gallons of bad gas. It sounds like a pretty hot engine too  Shifts real nice too. As soon as I get the kingpins on my 53 dodge done, I'm going to rebuild the brakes and drive the goat as is for a while. 

My ultimate plan is to send the body to a resto shop while I rebuild the chassis and paint it up real pretty. Once the body is back on, I'll take care of the rest. There is no way I could ever repair the body like the car deserves, but the rest I can manage.


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

Here's a vid of it running


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## mysweet67 (Jan 8, 2012)

Sounds great in the vid, Dano!!! What's with the hood, was it adjusted to allow for the air cleaner? Should of hit the Ames Tri-power Nats this past weekend. Lots of good metal there to replace the rotted out skins.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

danoflapper said:


> There is no way I could ever repair the body like the car deserves, but the rest I can manage.


Don't assume that. If you've got the time and are willing to put in the effort it can be learned. The required skills aren't all that had to develop. The "gotcha" is in the time it takes and the amount of labor involved. Those are the reasons quality paint/body work is so darn expensive. You're basically paying someone else to care as much about your car as you do. I did 100% of the work on my 69 myself, and I had never done paint/body before at all. If you want to think about it, get the instructional videos here: Kevin Tetz's Paintucation OFFICIAL SITE and also register for his web forum. Both are excellent resources for learning how.

Bear


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## danoflapper (May 16, 2012)

mysweet67 said:


> Sounds great in the vid, Dano!!! What's with the hood, was it adjusted to allow for the air cleaner? Should of hit the Ames Tri-power Nats this past weekend. Lots of good metal there to replace the rotted out skins.


Tri-Power nats is definitely in my future! It sounded good with the open headers, but when I put the mufflers, on every rust hole in the headers came alive. That and there weren't any gaskets between the head and header flanges :confused The hood just needs adjustment. 

I've got a new set of headers to install, hopefully they fit. The heads are coming off tomorrow so I can remove the two broken exhaust bolts on each head. It also gives me an opportunity to peek into the bores  Oh and the Tripower is going on when it goes back together.




BearGFR said:


> Don't assume that. If you've got the time and are willing to put in the effort it can be learned. The required skills aren't all that had to develop. The "gotcha" is in the time it takes and the amount of labor involved. Those are the reasons quality paint/body work is so darn expensive. You're basically paying someone else to care as much about your car as you do. I did 100% of the work on my 69 myself, and I had never done paint/body before at all. If you want to think about it, get the instructional videos here: Kevin Tetz's Paintucation OFFICIAL SITE and also register for his web forum. Both are excellent resources for learning how.
> 
> Bear


I'm not sure what to do at this point. I came up with two separate plans. One is an expensive and meticulous frame-off resto. The other is way cheaper and quicker. I really have the urge to tear it apart and sandblast the frame, replace the entire floor and trunk, and replace everything subpar.

The other involves an interior, detail the engine compartment, re-wire, ds floor pan, trunk pan, a new fender, door, slap a fresh coat of bondo on it. Spray it in single stage and drive the hell out of it until I do have the time and money. (does that every happen?) 


I'm not made of money unfortunately, and I don't have time except for in the summer. And space is limited. Envelope to PHS will be mailed tomorrow!


By the way, this thing has a 12 bolt in it with a clutch type posi

Lower (numerically speaking) gears might be in my future as well


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