# The WT is here...



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Well the bundle of joy arrived unscathed all the way from NJ. The seller told me to consider this a core but it is VERY rusty inside and is seized up. His description from the ebay ad stated that it turned over by hand. This engine hasn't turned over in about 20 years !! I pulled the main caps and all but one journal look OK. One has rust stains. I didn't try to remove any rod caps. One thing that puzzles me is the rods are stamped with numbers but the cap number doesn't match the rod number and some numbers are used twice....:confused Where these inspection numbers and not the position numbers ? They are on a machined pad on the side of the rod and cap at the mating seam. Here's a few pics.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Congrats, Mitch. All the Pontiacs I've torn down had matching numbers on the rods and caps, and they were numbered 1 through 8. Looks like some rods were replaced. You know what to do....resize/mag/etc. I had the ones in my '65 shot-peened and balanced because I thought I was going to drag race the car, but I never did. Probably unnecessary. I do recommend balancing all internal parts, but you're gonna do that anyway. When you're putting it back together, make SURE all the oil galllery plugs are in place. Machine shops like to leave them out, and they're kinda unique to Pontiacs....especially the one behind the freeze plug behind the flywheel on the passenger side. Don't ask me how I know!!! It looks like you have the right heads, manifolds, and everything. Are you going to run dished pistons, or race gas?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I was afraid you were gonna say that about the stamped numbers. The seller told me he didn't think it had ever been apart. So much for that. A couple of the rods are so badly rusted that I may end up with all new rods. I just hope I don't find any damaged rod journals when I pull the caps. I don't really want to buy a new crank too. He said the cam and lifters might be usable too but they are all rusted as well. All I'm gonna get out of this is a bare block and head castings and hopefully a crank. The pistons will be configured for 9-9.5 compression with the 670 heads...:cool


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Headers....heads.....tripower......horsepower....$$$$$$$


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mitch, those cranks will go .030" or more undersize with no problem. They're really beefy. So if you have rust on your journals, a .010/.010 grind will probably clean it up. I found it takes very little dish on a piston to decrease compression a lot. The 670 heads are 72cc in most cases, and you want about an 82-85cc chamber. I have 87cc chambers in my heads, and I'm barely at 9:1....I don't even need premium fuel. To add 10cc of chamber volume, it doesn't take much!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Koppster said:


> Headers....heads.....tripower......horsepower....$$$$$$$


I don't live in Texas and make the big bucks, Rick....:willy: It'll get headers and a mild cam but the 670's and a single 4 barrel stay...



geeteeohguy said:


> Mitch, those cranks will go .030" or more undersize with no problem. They're really beefy. So if you have rust on your journals, a .010/.010 grind will probably clean it up. I found it takes very little dish on a piston to decrease compression a lot. The 670 heads are 72cc in most cases, and you want about an 82-85cc chamber. I have 87cc chambers in my heads, and I'm barely at 9:1....I don't even need premium fuel. To add 10cc of chamber volume, it doesn't take much!


Good to know about the crank. I'm curious if it was bored when it was apart. If the "rebuilder" got the rods and caps all mixed up, it may be a backyard rebuild with a hone and new rings. The pistons still have a GM number in them. I really hope the block is good.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mitch........talked with Bill....he worked in a machine shop back in the day. He said that mis-numbered rod caps are pretty common in these engines, and his '67 has mismatched caps as well, and it's original. So, it looks like you're in the clear.
Jeff


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> Mitch........talked with Bill....he worked in a machine shop back in the day. He said that mis-numbered rod caps are pretty common in these engines, and his '67 has mismatched caps as well, and it's original. So, it looks like you're in the clear.
> Jeff


I removed the heads today and WOW, did I get a surprise... The seller said this engine turned over by hand. What a crock. I knew as soon as I saw the rusty rods and corroded pistons that it hadn't turned over in a LONG time. Here's some pics of the mess inside the cylinders. The right head sat with water in the exhaust ports for so long, three valves rusted off !!!!! There's a pic of one I found laying on the piston and when I tapped the tops of the stems to see if anything moved 2 more fell off. I hope the casting is still salvageable. The block is another story. Rust is very thick on a few walls. Hopefully a .040 bore will clean it up. The rod caps are almost funny after this. I have 4 #8 caps. The crank actually looks OK so far but I'm already looking at complete stroker kits with pistons to go in if the block is good. Make it a 462....:willy:


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## Bobbyg (Jul 22, 2009)

Looks like you have enough to put together a motor!

Mine started like that with holes in the pistons. Something about it leaning out. After sitting awhile, valves rusted apart, everything rusty...

Stroker kit sounds like the way to go. Can you run regular octane with a kit?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Bobbyg said:


> Looks like you have enough to put together a motor!
> 
> Mine started like that with holes in the pistons. Something about it leaning out. After sitting awhile, valves rusted apart, everything rusty...
> 
> Stroker kit sounds like the way to go. Can you run regular octane with a kit?


Yes, you just specify what heads for them to configure the piston dish/dome.


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## Bobbyg (Jul 22, 2009)

Too Many Projects said:


> Yes, you just specify what heads for them to configure the piston dish/dome.


That seems to make it a pretty good choice.

Thanks for the reply!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Man mitch, you can't catch a break. I do like your thoughts of a 462!:cheers


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mitch, are yu sure you can clean it up? I had a 389 that was like that, and the block turned out to be junk. Maybe you could sleeve it, but man, that's a lot of time and expense. I would see if the block is workable before going any further. My 389 was pitted too deeply on the cyl walls.....


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> Mitch, are yu sure you can clean it up? I had a 389 that was like that, and the block turned out to be junk. Maybe you could sleeve it, but man, that's a lot of time and expense. I would see if the block is workable before going any further. My 389 was pitted too deeply on the cyl walls.....


I'm just sick, Jeff..... I spent 3 HOURS beating the pistons out of this engine that "you can turn by hand". I'm waiting to hear back from a local builder whether he has the ability to clean this up and make an evaluation. It will need to be cooked and de-rusted somehow. If it turns out to be junk, I'm going to try to get my money back from the seller. What a freakin joke.....


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

That looks much worse than the 389 I had to junk. Good luck. Man, you've been hit by rust every step of the way...what's next, rust glass?? I feel for you. I would try to get a refund, etc. What I don't understand is: How can people LIE so blatantly? That engine hasn't been capable of turning over in years. I'd almost be tempeted to catch the red-eye and confront the sob face to face. What a royal S.O.B!!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I dropped it off at the machine shop this afternoon. The engine builder thought it was something I'd found in a field and picked up for free. He was stunned that I would actually pay big money for this junk. He isn't holding out much hope for any of it.... It will sit in the degreasing/descaling tank all weekend and he'll have a good look on Monday. If it looks like the bores can be saved, he will mag it for cracks. He really got a kick out of the exhaust valves that rusted right off at the stems..... He is a Pontiac guy to boot. He has a 64 Grand Prix that he bought many years ago out of a Nevada junkyard and restored. Very nice car !!!


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Mitch

Hoping this works out for you, but I'm like Jeff, I hope you'll try to get your money back out of the dirtbag that sold that motor to you. Ain't right.

Rick


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Thanks Rick. I'm going to email the pics to him today to see what he says.


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