# Muncie or Toploader question



## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Does anyone have a manual transmission out and know how many splines are on both the input and output shafts. Reason I ask is because I know of a decent 3 speed toploader for sale for cheap. My second gear syncro is going out. I dont drive the car enough to rebuild or install a 5 speed but will if I have too. I will have the trans out for a to bearing swap soon, so hence the question.Anyway its advertised as a ford tranny and am wondering about the splines and fitament. Any help appreciated.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I would rebuild the muncie that is in the car. If I couldn't afford it right now, I would double clutch on the 1-2 upshift and 3-2 downshift. Easy Peasy. Ford built Dearborn 3 speeds were standard original equipment in Pontiac Tempest's and GTO's when the buyer didn't want to pay the $160-$180 for a 4 speed upgrade. If it is a ten spline unit, it will slide right in. But again, get yours built or build it yourself. The kit is around $200 and it's not hard to do.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> I would rebuild the muncie that is in the car. If I couldn't afford it right now, I would double clutch on the 1-2 upshift and 3-2 downshift. Easy Peasy. Ford built Dearborn 3 speeds were standard original equipment in Pontiac Tempest's and GTO's when the buyer didn't want to pay the $160-$180 for a 4 speed upgrade. If it is a ten spline unit, it will slide right in. But again, get yours built or build it yourself. The kit is around $200 and it's not hard to do.


Where would I buy the kit from? could not find a instructional video for a three speed dearborn. How many splines on the rear?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Not 100% sure on rear splines but 95% sure they are the same. 5peeds.com (Paul C) for a kit, or Riverside Gear, lots of vendors out there. I like Paul at 5speeds. Great guy, great prices/parts, and he has 'how to' videos on youtube as well.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RMTZ67 said:


> Does anyone have a manual transmission out and know how many splines are on both the input and output shafts. Reason I ask is because I know of a decent 3 speed toploader for sale for cheap. My second gear syncro is going out. I dont drive the car enough to rebuild or install a 5 speed but will if I have too. I will have the trans out for a to bearing swap soon, so hence the question.Anyway its advertised as a ford tranny and am wondering about the splines and fitament. Any help appreciated.


The Dearborn trans had a couple changes done to it to work with the GM application from what I have read, so you can't just buy a Ford version and slap it in. I read that the input shaft was changed to that of a GM shaft along with the front collar that the throw-out bearing rides on. I also believe the tailshaft housing is specific to GM.

Ford uses 1 1/16" x 10 input shaft, GM 1 1/8" x 10 input shafts. Tailshaft has 28 splines.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

PontiacJim said:


> The Dearborn trans had a couple changes done to it to work with the GM application from what I have read, so you can't just buy a Ford version and slap it in. I read that the input shaft was changed to that of a GM shaft along with the front collar that the throw-out bearing rides on. I also believe the tailshaft housing is specific to GM.
> 
> Ford uses 1 1/16" x 10 input shaft, GM 1 1/8" x 10 input shafts. Tailshaft has 28 splines.


Thanks Jim. Gonna get more info on the trans, rebuilt kit for mine, instructions and see if Dr Me wants to attempt a rebuild. Kind of hard to find old school mechanics anymore.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RMTZ67 said:


> Thanks Jim. Gonna get more info on the trans, rebuilt kit for mine, instructions and see if Dr Me wants to attempt a rebuild. Kind of hard to find old school mechanics anymore.


I have never rebuilt a trans as it was just as easy to bring it down to my local trans rebuilder who had 30 years expereince, and that was in early 1980's so you know he knew what he was doing as manual transmissions were more common.

Just take lots of photos step-by-step as you disassemble. I have heard the tricky parts is the needle bearings and to keep them in place, use grease to hold them in from dropping out or moving around. You may require some certain tools if you don't already have them.

Service Manual shows how to do it, but am sure you can find other sources as well.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

PontiacJim said:


> I have never rebuilt a trans as it was just as easy to bring it down to my local trans rebuilder who had 30 years expereince, and that was in early 1980's so you know he knew what he was doing as manual transmissions were more common.
> 
> Just take lots of photos step-by-step as you disassemble. I have heard the tricky parts is the needle bearings and to keep them in place, use grease to hold them in from dropping out or moving around. You may require some certain tools if you don't already have them.
> 
> Service Manual shows how to do it, but am sure you can find other sources as well.


Gonna ask around for a trans rebuilder first, then go from there. I have been working on my rental most of the mild winter here, so got to get a move on to enjoy some of the cooler spring weather. Ya read about the needle bearings and maybe some special tools. Thanks, I will update if it goes further than my TO bearing.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What is your location, RMT? The one 'tool' you will need access to is a shop press to press the gears on and off the mainshaft assy. The needle bearings look worse than they are. Thick grease holds them in place. The trickiest thing on a manual trans rebuild is to be able to spot worn parts. To the inexperienced eye, worn out engagement dogs can look just fine, and will give you fits when it's all together and still slips out of gear by itself. There are many good articles on gear inspection, assembly, disassembly, etc. on the internet. The C1-C2 Corvette forum has many posts with photos on this, by a gent named DZAUTO.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> What is your location, RMT? The one 'tool' you will need access to is a shop press to press the gears on and off the mainshaft assy. The needle bearings look worse than they are. Thick grease holds them in place. The trickiest thing on a manual trans rebuild is to be able to spot worn parts. To the inexperienced eye, worn out engagement dogs can look just fine, and will give you fits when it's all together and still slips out of gear by itself. There are many good articles on gear inspection, assembly, disassembly, etc. on the internet. The C1-C2 Corvette forum has many posts with photos on this, by a gent named DZAUTO.


I am in New Mexico. Albuquerque to be exact. I will look into the corvette forum and many more. Or maybe I will buy a rebuilt one from Ebay lol.


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