# How close to red-line?



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Newbie-type question here:

How close can you let the engine rev to the red-line while accelerating and still have it be safe? 

Given that my only stick shift previously was a 4banger econocar, I've never revved a car very close to redline before. I've been letting the rpms get a bit higher on the Goat while accelerating, but I want to be careful. 

Most stick-shift cars I've sat in have had the red area marked off, and they'll have an orange/yellow "caution" section on the tachometer. The GTO surprisingly does not have a caution area. I've heard rumors that may or may not be true that going to red or just before red is never safe, that you should not go above (500rpm below redline, 1000 rpm below redline--some numbers I don't remember). What would you say is safe, for a stock engine? 

I tried searching and couldn't find the answer.


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## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

As long as you aren't going past redline without any engine modifications to warrant it, I wouldn't worry... maybe I'm wrong though.  If the engine could be easily damaged by going say 500rpm or even 1000rpm less than the redline, one would think they wouldn't set the redline so high... or a bunch of owners would come back complaining about blown engines.

If I'm going for the maximum possible speed, I shift right before the rev limiter cuts me off, just as the engine touches redline.


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## C5ORGTO (Dec 30, 2004)

I shift right at Redline for max speed. I've also have bounced off the rev limiter several times without any issues. 10,984 miles, and still going strong.


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Ok, thanks for the replies. 

I had forgotten about the rev-limiter; that probably helps. Most of the 2nd and 3rd hand vague stuff I had heard was dealing with older cars (60s, 70s, and early 80s) and possibly rev limiters didn't exist then.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Honestly, I don't know how much good it does acceleration-wise to wind your RPMs past the horsepower and torque peaks. The LS2's horsepower peak is at 5,200 RPMs, while torque peaks at 4,000. I'd venture to say that you're just wasting time letting the engine rev much past the horsepower peak.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

*because*



GM Kid said:


> Honestly, I don't know how much good it does acceleration-wise to wind your RPMs past the horsepower and torque peaks. The LS2's horsepower peak is at 5,200 RPMs, while torque peaks at 4,000. I'd venture to say that you're just wasting time letting the engine rev much past the horsepower peak.


Correct!
You can feel where the power starts to fade, around 5400-5600, the car will feel like it's not pulling as hard as it did just a moment before. As far as I'm concerned, there's really no need to hit the rev limiter other than by accident during a burnout or something, you're just wasting power and gasoline by going that high.
With that said, if you make modifications to the car, such as a cam, your powerband will usually be moved up the RPM range, so you would want to shift a bit later...but it sounds like that's not an issue with your car yet, so if I were you, I'd probably shift by no later than 5800-5900 RPM.


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

That is a good point about the power dropping off after a bit.

So far, I think I've taken the car just high of 4000 (maybe 4100 or so), but no higher. I figured I had room to go a bit more--and it was still definately pulling at 4k--but after remembering the vague horror stories from yon I figured I'd play it safe and ask first.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

I've bounced mine off the rev-limiter several times too, with no damage, and it's got 21k miles.
If you take it up to about 5400 and beyond, you will feel the power drop off. You're not going to break anything by taking it up toward the redline, these engines are designed to rev pretty high.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Actually peak horsepower is at 6000 rpms and peak torque is at 4400 rpms. Your redline is at 6500 rpms and the rev limiter is somewhere between 6700 and 7000. To stay above the torque peak you need to shift close to redline, this will enable you to stay on the power curve. The LS2 is a deep breather with excellent high rpm response. 

You more than likely won't damage the engine if you bounce it off the rev limiter a couple of times. More than that though is asking for trouble. Something else to remember is the tach is fairly slow compared to how fast the engine revs. 

What I found from my drag racing experience is that winding 1st in a full on run it hits the rev limiter at around 6300 rpms on the tach. I found that 6100 in first is just about optimal as a shift point. In second the engine is not winding up as fast so the tach is not as far off and you need to shift at 6200-6300. 3rd is closer still and I'd pull when I thought I saw 6300.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> Actually peak horsepower is at 6000 rpms and peak torque is at 4400 rpms.


I got my info from the Pontiac Web site, but what do they know?


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## Doodad (Apr 13, 2006)

I am with some of the others. Do a dyno run and see where you peak on your car and you will have your personal redline. My Camaro runs out of breath at 5400 so I never go over that.


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## GTJimbO (Apr 28, 2006)

C5ORGTO said:


> I shift right at Redline for max speed. I've also have bounced off the rev limiter several times without any issues. 10,984 miles, and still going strong.


Which is precisely why they put a rev limiter in software anyway. Given the rev limiter, a "red line" is actually somewhat pointless, and is a legacy from the days of no software limitations -- heck, not software whatsoever.

So, bottom line, run it right up to the red-line. arty: The car will protect itself from you, the driver, with software.:cheers :cool 

Jim M.


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

I may be paraphrasing a bit, but the service manager at Auffenberg cautioned me of two things. The first being balance and rotation of the tires, and second, to not redline her. He said something like "If you do, you'll run the top end out of her. I've got two sitting in here right now because of that."

So, was he trying to scare me? If I blow a shift, will the limiter protect me?

I had to go back out and look at the tack. The maybe two or three times I've really gotten on her, I shifted at 5 grand. And that was plenty for this old goat! I've redlined a couple bikes in my day :cheers 

Gerry


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

ShoddyHog said:


> I may be paraphrasing a bit, but the service manager at Auffenberg cautioned me of two things. The first being balance and rotation of the tires, and second, to not redline her. He said something like "If you do, you'll run the top end out of her. I've got two sitting in here right now because of that."
> 
> So, was he trying to scare me? If I blow a shift, will the limiter protect me?


I've accidentally redlined mine twice and the limiter does kick in. I'm told that the computer keeps track of every time you redline and they can tell when you get it in for servicing.


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

Starrbuck said:


> I've accidentally redlined mine twice and the limiter does kick in. I'm told that the computer keeps track of every time you redline and they can tell when you get it in for servicing.


I haven't done enough reading to know for sure, but expected the computer could tell. I even thought about asking them if the computer could tell if I've acutally had this thing all the way to the floor or not :rofl: 

The only thing that it doesn't do today that it did when I first got it, is that now when I sit on the line, feel a slight shake of the car back and forth at idle. Like I'd complain about that ;-) She's hitting strong and smooth on all 8, and I'm beginning to believe I got one right off the truck, only driven by the folks that picked her up from the other dealer.

Either way, I've never been this antsy before. I don't want to do ANYTHING else but drive it.

Gerry


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## LITTLE GTO (Dec 8, 2005)

That shake rattle and roll is the nature of the beast with the LS2.They all do it and is normal-after all we have a .525/.525 cam from the 01 Z06.


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

LITTLE GTO said:


> That shake rattle and roll is the nature of the beast with the LS2.They all do it and is normal-after all we have a .525/.525 cam from the 01 Z06.


Yeah, that was more of a statement of something that it didn't do when I picked her up, but does now than a complaint. I've never had a car with enough cam to do that...and it sure feels good. There's no doubt she's hittin' strong on all 8.

Gerry


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

ShoddyHog said:


> The only thing that it doesn't do today that it did when I first got it, is that now when I sit on the line, feel a slight shake of the car back and forth at idle. Like I'd complain about that ;-) She's hitting strong and smooth on all 8, and I'm beginning to believe I got one right off the truck, only driven by the folks that picked her up from the other dealer.
> 
> Either way, I've never been this antsy before. I don't want to do ANYTHING else but drive it.


Amen, brutha! Mine had 23 miles on it when I did the test drive so I doubt there was much of a chance to have put any abuse to it. I also drive very carefully but lately I have been driving it more like it should be driven. Damn, it's fun.


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## fullarmor2 (Mar 1, 2006)

fergyflyer said:


> To stay above the torque peak you need to shift close to redline, this will enable you to stay on the power curve. The LS2 is a deep breather with excellent high rpm response.
> 
> 
> > :agree
> ...


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

The stock roller lifters float fairly easily. Stock lifter rods aren't gonna take many red line shifts and the stock springs are minimum at best. On a stock top end your asking for trouble revving past 6500 rpm. Now those stock 3/8 rod bolts are for another string I guess


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

SgtGeek said:


> The stock roller lifters float fairly easily. Stock lifter rods aren't gonna take many red line shifts and the stock springs are minimum at best. On a stock top end your asking for trouble revving past 6500 rpm. Now those stock 3/8 rod bolts are for another string I guess


That supports what the service manager told me, and from what I learned as an aircraft mechanic. I'd like to believe that a limiter is going to protect me, but I hope to never test that out on my car.

Gerry


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

Starrbuck said:


> Amen, brutha! Mine had 23 miles on it when I did the test drive so I doubt there was much of a chance to have put any abuse to it. I also drive very carefully but lately I have been driving it more like it should be driven. Damn, it's fun.


I'm right with you there. If I drive this car like a wuss, I'd damn sure just sell her, because that would be an injustice. Except for lugging the thing @ 55 like the book says, I broke mine in like it should be...during the first 500, I varied my speed and torque often while driving her like I will 99% of the time. Now, I'm at somewhere around 1,000, I've walked her up to a comfortable point, and still will give her a few thousand before I really open her up. A lot of that has to do with my admission that I don't have the driving skills I had 20 years ago.

But it SURE is fun to have a car to remind me of what it felt like to be 20  

Gerry


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## CRAB AAS (Mar 27, 2011)

i wanted to buy this 2004 GTO My brother in law drove it the first time being that he built a 500 hp mustang. so he was the test driver for me while i rode shotgun. well i must say he got to 3 grand on the goat then punched it and never let off while shifting till 5th and the limiter never made him stop. this beast chirped in 4th with traction control still on which we never even knew existed during our test drive. I have no idea where the rpms were but it did not make him stop. i was holding on for dear life. i bought the car right there on the spot. He told me before he drove it, "if it is gonna break, its gonna break now". um it did'nt. My 500 horse power mustang brother in law was impressed with the car.


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## YellO5LS2 (Jan 9, 2011)

Not to be a prick, but anyone used to driving mustangs would be more than impressed with the GTO  500HP is a lot but it's easy to get that out of our engines with simple bolt-ons. Mustang require turbos and SC for that kind of muscle. 

Glad to hear you bought the GTO though. They're awesome machines, no doubt!

As for the red line - I stay well away from it just out of habit. Not to mention the car makes no extra power after a certain point, so why waste the gas?


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