# Header Opinions needed



## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Looking for opinions on going back to original cast iron manifolds on my non- Ram Air 1971 GTO? For anyone with experience, what are the pros and cons of original cast exhaust versus after market headers. I am having the engine pulled and painted and will be replacing the current rusty 15 yr old Hedman headers. I would like something that will hold up cosmetically and perform well.

Forgive if this is an overdone subject. 

Thanks in advance.

Dan


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

jigaway said:


> Looking for opinions on going back to original cast iron manifolds on my non- Ram Air 1971 GTO? For anyone with experience, what are the pros and cons of original cast exhaust versus after market headers. I am having the engine pulled and painted and will be replacing the current rusty 15 yr old Hedman headers. I would like something that will hold up cosmetically and perform well.
> 
> Forgive if this is an overdone subject.
> 
> ...


Hey Dan,

Well here ya go.
Pros 
Fitment - These cars were not built to accommodate headers, and neither were the heads. 
Clearance - Your exhaust will not be as likely to bottom out on you. 
Flow - If you get the right exhaust manifolds, they will flow as well or better than most aftermarket headers. 

Cons
Cost - A good set of manifolds, the desirable ones that flow well, ain't cheap.
Looks - It's harder to keep stock manifolds looking pretty under the hood. 


That's all I can come up with off the top of my head. I think you have chosen wisely.
Scott


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Thanks Scott. You are echoing what the professional engine guy advised me on. He said the Hedmans that are on it were a bugger to get on. 

Which are the ones that flow well and aren’t cheap ??

If I'm doing this, I might as well do it right. My goal is to have the engine compartment more or less back to stock but still have some high performance. 

Dan


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh heck that's easy. 
Ram Air III IV V
High Output
Super Duty

Any of those stockers are killer exhaust manifolds. Some are made re-production. But again, can get kinda spendy.


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

You may want to try ramairrestoration (DOT) com
They have RA and HO manifolds in reproduction that are quite nice. I will probably go that route too.

Good luck. 

Scott


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

I looked at the RAs on ramairrestoration.. Nice, and not too bad a price until you drop 199 extra for coatings! Wonder if worth it to keep it pretty.

Dan


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

The coating IS worth it! Eric


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Well, just to offer a lightly different slant. While it's true that manifolds will fit better and will be more durable than any header, a good header will make more power than any manifold. If that weren't true then you'd be seeing manifolds on race cars instead of headers.

The decision to be made is whether or not you're willing to put up with the aforementioned fit, clearance, and longevity issues in order to get the most power you can get out of your engine.

Bear


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## pontiac (Mar 6, 2011)

tell it like it is. Headers on a vintage car driven on the street through mufflers in stop and go traffic and even highway speeds, you do not get the full benefit of the header. on the track, uncorked, sure, but on the street with stock gearing and typical rpm, as shown by the car magazines is not there. along with the leaks, clearance, better to go with HO ram air cast manifolds and exhaust system to match.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Headers and stock manifolds both rust and look cruddy after a while. Coated headers stay good looking longer than both. I have the Tri Y's and they hit everything, PITA.. Dougs headers fit great and look good from what others have said.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Tubing headers on the street are more for bragging rights than anything else. They make a little bit more horsepower uncorked and at the track, as stated, but on a full exhaust car pm the street, there is no real performance gain...not a huge one, anyway. My take is that for 99 percent of driving, cast iron's are fine. I have stock cast irons on my '67, and leaky Heddman's on my '65 that I installed when I was a 21 year old kid almost 30 years ago. For a street driven car at normal rpms, cast iron manifolds might even yield more torque.


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Great input. The more I think on it, since the engine is getting a spit shine back to stock color, I'll probably go with the gray coated round port Ram Air manifolds.
Will post a few pictures of the car in a few days when I get her. Engine restoration is a month or so away, so input like this helps me get the needed parts now. 

Thanks again,

Dan


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Round port manifolds are only compatible with round port heads. If you have them, great. If you have normal D port heads, the HO manifolds work very well and fit just fine.


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## 69Goatee (Aug 14, 2009)

I have used headers on my 69 Goat as long as I have had it, didn't have performance cast iron then. I am on my third set now. Some tips... The best time to install is when the front clip is off, or at least the inner fenders, remove the starter, oil filter adapter, the back drive linkage for autos, clutch linkage for manual. Install from underneath, and use quality gaskets. I have had good luck covering both sides of the gasket with a thin film of copper RTV. Now I got a great deal on a set of new ceramic coated headers. I used the new carbon gaskets from Percys, they look like black velvet stuck to a metal core. I also used Stage 8 locking header bolts made for big block chevy, they are longer. Haven't started the engine yet, still putting the car together.
Having said all that, I would go with RA cast iron if I wasn't already set up for headers, and had a set of coated headers fall into my lap.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

69Goatee said:


> I I used the new carbon gaskets from Percys, they look like black velvet stuck to a metal core.


I used the same ones on my 70, they sealed right up and no issues with them, and look good and fuzzy..


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## gotyorgoat (Jun 19, 2011)

I went with the Ram Air manifolds because my heads were not drilled to accomodate the outside bolt holes for the headers that were already on it. Without these outside bolts it was impossible to get them to seal properly. I would have spent more to take off the heads and have them drilled that I spent on the manifolds. I also did not want to open a can or worms by taking the heads off and discovering that I needed new rockers, etc. The headers that were on the car actually warped because they could not be secured properly. I am waiting for my manifoods to be delivered and then I plan to spray them with my own $8 can of ceramic coating and bake them in the oven before I install them.


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

I am definitely going with the RA manifolds. Yesterday I saw a set of the coated gray ones in a similar car. The owner said they are a breeze to keep looking brand new and definitely recommended the coated. I figured I would go ahead and spring for the coated if I am going to enter shows. 

I just hope I don't lose to much of the badass sound. I'll still have the flowmaster 40s but I'll probably lose some of the port chatter.


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## Willshire (Jul 14, 2011)

jigaway said:


> I looked at the RAs on ramairrestoration.. Nice, and not too bad a price until you drop 199 extra for coatings! Wonder if worth it to keep it pretty.
> 
> Dan


I put a set of R.A.R.E. long branch cast headers on my 64 gp and they fit and look great (paid for gray coat too). the only draw back was on top of the $900 for the man's (ship to ontario canada from cali incl.) i needed i mini starter and the oil filter extension piece. all told was about 1400 cdn. i couldn't find a set of tube headers to work on my b-body so this ended up being my solution. With flowmaster 40's they will still sound bad ass. Mine sounds awesome. My .02


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## rustorod (May 8, 2011)

What is the general opinion for Doug's Headers? I read good feedback on other sites regarding them.


Thanks.
Mike


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## onetwomany (Apr 22, 2011)

I bought a set of Dougs ceramic coated for my 65. Have not installed yet. Was reading in the instruction sheet that they are not recommended for initial breakin of the engine. May damage the ceramic coating??? Can anyone comment of this? Do I have to go out and buy another set of manifolds or headers for break in? I have E heads on the 455 right now. Thanks


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

onetwomany said:


> I bought a set of Dougs ceramic coated for my 65. Have not installed yet. Was reading in the instruction sheet that they are not recommended for initial breakin of the engine. May damage the ceramic coating??? Can anyone comment of this? Do I have to go out and buy another set of manifolds or headers for break in? I have E heads on the 455 right now. Thanks


I like my Doug's so far. They've got nice thick flanges, "reasonable" clearance (for headers), and mine don't seem to leak (yet at least).

True on the break in. Everything's going to get really hot on that first run, especially while you're breaking in a new flat tappet cam. Headers will get hot enough to cook the coating. What I did on mine, was I bought raw steel headers and ran them for the break in, then sent them out to Jet Hot to have their 'Extreme Sterling' coating applied afterwards. 




















Bear


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## onetwomany (Apr 22, 2011)

Sounds to me that I have a decision to make. Manifolds or raw steel headers for break in process??? Thanks for the honest heads up Bear.:cheers


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

You could just run the factory ones till it is broke in. I bet you will still win the race in your garage. You could add some cheap/ used head pipes and mufflers if you don't like the sound on brake in.


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## onetwomany (Apr 22, 2011)

LT you made a couple good points however, I have the Edelbrock heads on mine and I think that limits my choices for break in. Maybe I should buy some round port mans and use them for break in and throw them on the shelf for later use. If you cant tell, I do prefer to run a good quality header.


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## gotyorgoat (Jun 19, 2011)

jigaway, I finally got my Ram Air manifolds fired up and they sound great. I think it was the only way to solve my problems with not having the outside bolt holes drilled on my heads. They are 16 lbs each which is stout, but not heavy enough to worry about. I see no reduction in chatter or sound. Just sealed up the leaks.


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Very nice. thanks for the info and picture. Glad I won't lose the "nasty" chatter. I have my Gray Coated RAMs in my workshop with another 1500 bucs worth of parts. I'm waiting for the call from my restoration man to take my Goat and make her shiny new under the hood again. I have before pics, will take afters and post.

Dan


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