# GM Service Lacking in a Big Way



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

The recent catastrophic transmission failure I've experienced has me very concerned about my ownership of this fine car.

It's not even so much that the Tremec went kablooie after freeway 31,000 miles, though that is disappointing. It's the way the service department initially dealt with the problem.

Their default position is that the customer is an idiot. Feed him happy talk, blame someone else, deal with the situation in the most half-assed way possible, and send him on his merry, drooling way. That is a dangerous position to take. 

The GTO reflects a huge step forward in GM's attempt to resurrect the Pontiac brand from it's pathetic legacy, as the Holden exhibits a driving experience and build quality that is head, shoulders, and most of the torso above and beyond her Red Arrowhead stable mates. If this is the future of GM, it is bright indeed. However, the whole ownership experience needs to improve if GM is to assert its role as the worlds best car maker...and a huge part of that comes from the quality of work, attitude, and general professionalism of the service department. 

They have a _loooooong_ way to go.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Outside of the initial screw up -- it seems like your dealer's service department stepped up, got to the bottom of the problem, and got it fixed. 

The guy who lives across the street from me bought his wife an Audi TT for a birthday present -- and one of the headlights burned out a couple of days after he got it home. He's always working on his cars -- so he drove back to the dealer and asked for just the lightbulb so he could put it in. No big deal, right?

The dealer's service advisor flat out lies through his teeth by saying all kinds of body panels, etc. had to be removed. So he left it -- and the car has been gone for TWO WEEKS. Week one: no "factory" lightbulbs available. Week two: dealer service department backlog. In the meantime, his poor wife is driving around in a POS VW New Beetle with CARLSEN AUDI COMPLIMENTARY SERVICE VEHICLE in 30 inch tall letters on every side of it.

I don't even want to get into the crap my wife went through with the BMW she had when I first met her. It's just amazing that the automobile industry, in large part, STILL hasn't figured out how to treat people right during the sales and service processess. 

On a happier note, the service department at Marina Pontiac in San Leandro, CA is awesome. As an example, my gas cap broke -- so I call their service desk. The guy checked to see if they had the part in stock. Nope -- but ordered one based on my description. Took a week for it to come in -- and they got it swapped it out in 5 minutes on the first visit while I waited. 

No need for a separate trip for them to do the diagnosis -- which is pretty cool in my book. Good luck with your car either tonight or tomorrow.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

I took a bath to the tune of about $5,000 because I foolishly bought a leftover 01 Aurora in March 02. Had I leased an acura TL or even a 02 Aurora I would have not only been up $5,000, but my car would not have been in the shop for 40 days in three years. Six days for a power steering pump, three of them in the corner because I didnt buy it from them, and they looked at it on the fourth to order the part. 

Five trips for a shimmy, four trips because it stalled, three or four trips to fix a rattle, four trips for a fog light bulb. all had TSBs out all TSBs were ignored even when handed to the service advisor.

Everything was finally right at the end of month 37 when the bulb behind the speedo went. That was the straw that broke the camels back. 

I cant afford the payment on a Acura MDX touring, and my wife insists on memory seats, so I may have to go to a Buick Rendexvous Ultra. One thing for sure, if there is a creak or rattle I will fix it with some JB weld. if there is a defect in the paint I wont care, if the trunk leaks like the auroras did, out comes the 1/4 drill bit, and in goes a plastic plug when I return the car.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Groucho said:


> The recent catastrophic transmission failure I've experienced has me very concerned about my ownership of this fine car.
> 
> It's not even so much that the Tremec went kablooie after freeway 31,000 miles, though that is disappointing. It's the way the service department initially dealt with the problem.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your crappy experience with Pontiac's service department. But bashing the auto maker because it's service department employees are feeding you a load of sh!t isn't fair. I'm sure that Pontiac dealerships doesn't train their employees to be worthless. Some just are. And I'm sure Holden has a few employees who are worthy of a bullet. And really, you can't blame Pontiac for poor build quality especially when the car was built by Holden :confused . Not trying to get you fired up but sometimes you're really hard on Pontiac, the car maker of a vehicle you bought. I just don't get it.


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## AmesGTO (Aug 3, 2004)

Deja vu.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Sorry to hear about your crappy experience with Pontiac's service department. But bashing the auto maker because it's service department employees are feeding you a load of sh!t isn't fair. I'm sure that Pontiac dealerships doesn't train their employees to be worthless. Some just are. And I'm sure Holden has a few employees who are worthy of a bullet. And really, you can't blame Pontiac for poor build quality especially when the car was built by Holden :confused . Not trying to get you fired up but sometimes you're really hard on Pontiac, the car maker of a vehicle you bought. I just don't get it.


I'm hard on _GM_, not Pontiac. This dealer is a Pontiac / GMC / Buick dealer....and my point isd the poor service. I'm willing to accept that mass-produced parts occasionally fail. I wish the cars distributor would do the same.

If you think two _weeks_ is a fair amount of time to diagnose and repair a problem with transmission, God bless you...but I think that's screwing the dog.

I can compare and contrast with my experience owning my BMW 323i. I purchased it as a CPO, which carries with it a 100k drivetrain warranty. I bought her with ~40k miles on it and sold her with 175k miles on the clock.

_Every time_ it had to go in for an overnight service I got a new-car loaner...and a comperable loaner at that (always another 3-series, sometimes one with <100 miles on the odo). It was _never _ in for longer than 3 days. I had some initial problems with the cooling system, but it was fixed after two visits...and, as I said, it was fixed right and it was fixed quickly. The guys at the parts counter were competent, friendly, and knowledgeable.

I understand that I probably got lucky with the BMW dealer, but so far I am unimpressed with GM's level of service. Their cycle time is FAR to long, the loaner car is a buzzbox pile, their parts guys go blank when you start asking about GTO parts and seldom return phone calls. I had to finally call GTODEALER in Texas to get the parts I needed!!! I paid $8000 _more_ for the GTO than I did for my 3-series, and yet I feel I am getting Kia-level service. Buying a New Car is about more than having a lot of zeroes on the odometer-- it's about having the manufacturer and their licensed representatives standing behind their product. To be fair, GM did eventually stand behind the GTO transmission, but it has taken _far_ too long.

When I drop $30k for a car, I expect a certain level of service. I understand vehicles, I work on them when I have to...but one of the things I pay for when I buy a car from a showroom floor is for others-- presumably better equipped and trained than I-- to do it.


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## AmesGTO (Aug 3, 2004)

There are bad dealers. Go somewhere else.

I get great treatment on my cars at my GM dealer. Sales guy always gives me his car to drive. Over-night is the longest they have ever kept it and when they did they parked it inside, I went and checked When it is parked outside for me to come and pick up during the day it's parked in a good spot, no dings.


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

The service dept. reflects the dealership not GM. Each dealership manages its own service dept. their own way. I know several service writers that worked for various different dealerships and they know that some are slime. They care only about profit and sales and don't care about keeping customers happy if they don't see immediate profit in it. Make sure you get the service survey and bash the ones that are not adequate. My dealership has great customer service and does not try to sell service that is not required. Don't forget you can bring the car anywhere that is certified to do the repairs.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

You got a transmission replaced under warranty. Loaner as well -- something Pontiac doesn't have to do. The parts took a little while -- as the GTO's a low volume car. What's the big deal? 

Frankly, I bet you BMW really would have given you a bad time if a transmission part failed with an aftermarket shifter on it. I can see it now...

BMW: "Welcome to Big Money Waste BMW, may I help you?"

G: "I'm here to see Wolfgang about my 3-series."

BMW: "One moment. Help yourself to a cup of coffee."

G: "OK. Oooh, hazelnut creamer."

WG: "Ah, Groucho. It is gut to ze you again. How is ze new radiator we put in last week?

G: "Fine, I guess. Just not used to having the plastic top pop off a radiator at 20,000 miles."

WG: "Well, Mr. Groucho, you did not put ze pure Bavarian anti-freeze from the Fatherland. Your inferior American anti-freeze clearly caused the failure, which is vy we did not cover it under ze warranty."

G: "Great, I know -- even though I never touched the anti-freeze. Now about my transmission."

WG: "Yes, vat about your transmission?"

G: "Well, it's making this noise. Sounds like Katie Couric when she has to think."

WG: "Let me see here. Vat are these black stripes across the top of your car, Mr. Groucho?"

G: "I had these put on last week."

WG: "They are, as you say, rather unfortunate as they detract from the fine German heritage zat is part of the DNA of every BMW. Und have you made any other modifications to ze car?"

G: "Well, I put a short shift kit in to cut the 18 inch long throws down a bit."

WG: "Zo you have modified your transmission, because you Americans are always in zuch a hurry, yes? And ze transmission is now broken, yes? And what do you want us to do about it?"

G: "Fix it under warranty."

WG: "Mr. Groucho. You have taken a pristine example of Teutonic engineering and defiled it with a zhift kit no doubt made in ze United States by people who are not blonde haired and blue eyed. This is not acceptable! You can not defile ze work of BMW and expect us to pay for your mistakes! Good day, Mr. Groucho. Please proceed to the cashier zo you can pay $3 for your coffee plus a $2 upcharge for ze hazelnut creamer, plus a zeventy dollar diagnosis fee."


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

:rofl: :rofl: 

Ah, crap...and thousands of comedians out of work...  

That's pretty good...but you missed my favorite Bimmer-riffs:

"_Ja, ja_, we fix. Bring checkbook."

"Ah, I see...ze problem iss not wiff ze automobile, ze problem iss wiff you, yes?"

:rofl:


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

b_a_betterperson said:


> You got a transmission replaced under warranty. Loaner as well -- something Pontiac doesn't have to do. The parts took a little while -- as the GTO's a low volume car. What's the big deal?
> 
> Frankly, I bet you BMW really would have given you a bad time if a transmission part failed with an aftermarket shifter on it. I can see it now...
> 
> ...


 :rofl: Damn that's funny :rofl: . And on the serious side of what you're saying, I also don't think BMW would have been pleased with covering a failed transmission with an aftermarket shifter on it.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

b_a_betterperson said:


> You got a transmission replaced under warranty. Loaner as well -- something Pontiac doesn't have to do. The parts took a little while -- as the GTO's a low volume car. What's the big deal?
> 
> Frankly, I bet you BMW really would have given you a bad time if a transmission part failed with an aftermarket shifter on it. I can see it now...
> 
> ...


 :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Zo you laugh at my jokes, Mr. Groucho? BMW does not cover jokes under our warranty or maintenance plan. Zat will require us to prepare invoices for ze jokes. Please return to ze cashier at once.

OK, enough of this. Again, hope your dealer did everything right this time!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

b_a_betterperson said:


> Zo you laugh at my jokes, Mr. Groucho? BMW does not cover jokes under our warranty or maintenance plan. Zat will require us to prepare invoices for ze jokes. Please return to ze cashier at once.
> 
> OK, enough of this. Again, hope your dealer did everything right this time!


"NEIN! You cannot pay zis. Your paypahs ah not in ohtah!"


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

Groucho said:


> "NEIN! You cannot pay zis. Your paypahs ah not in ohtah!"


 :lol: ...for god sakes.... :lol:


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## ftlfirefighter (Jun 6, 2005)

Ya'll are always good for a laugh!!


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## Buffalo (Jul 22, 2004)

ftlfirefighter said:


> Ya'll are always good for a laugh!!



:agree :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

I thought BMW stood for Bring My Wallet :lol: 

I find most the time that the level of service is directly proportional to the cost of the vehicle. The work isn't any better, just the service.

What gets me is the level of BS that these GM disservice depts give people and the customer is like.. 'OK, bye bye, see you next time.'

'Complaint not found' my ass, you better go back and look again. I had the dealer I bought my car from do that 6 days after buying it. After I showed diagnosed the problem for them, they couldn't duplicate, I took the car and went to the dealer up the road and let them fix it.


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

I can tell you from personal experiance that the service you get is limited to the dealership you go to. I have gone to several different GM dealerships and in my area GM as a whole needs to step in there collective asses about there LACK of customer service. I can tell you that both the BMW dealers in my area are very responsive to there costomers to the point were they replaced a year old 6 series and BMW not the dealership covered the cost. That is not the first time I have seen them do that.


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## bemeyer (Apr 4, 2005)

silvergoat05 said:


> I thought BMW stood for Bring My Wallet :lol:
> 
> I find most the time that the level of service is directly proportional to the cost of the vehicle. The work isn't any better, just the service.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I got the same line of cr*p about my DIC showing "low coolant." Guess what?? It still does it. Also, went to pick up floor mat pins and was in a might big rush over lunch, the parts clerk said I'd need to drive my car in and have them installed!  I was like "these are just floormat pins, I can put them in myself." I left pissed, along with my issues with the crooked sale of the vehicle I will never go back again. BTW, this is Belhmann Pontiac, if you're wise do not do business there.

b_a_betterperson - you're hilarious!


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

AmesGTO said:


> There are bad dealers. Go somewhere else.
> 
> I get great treatment on my cars at my GM dealer. Sales guy always gives me his car to drive. Over-night is the longest they have ever kept it and when they did they parked it inside, I went and checked When it is parked outside for me to come and pick up during the day it's parked in a good spot, no dings.


I take my GTO to a Chevy dealer. They have the best service department I have ever experienced. I pulled up with a new GTO after getting rid of my Corvette, and asked if they could do the service on it. I was asked if I had a problem with the car and with the service department at the Pontiac dealer that I bought the car from (1 mile away). I told them no and no I just liked their service department. No other questions, they were glad to have me there as a customer. They have shuttle service and loaner cars and trucks. They went out of the way to get my Corvette fixed for free by GM even though it was out of warranty, because they felt that the part should not have failed when it did. I didn't even buy the Corvette from them. Their prices are fair, 60 for the 7qt Mobil 1 oil change and every 5th one is free. 

You just need to find the right dealer. 

I have a friend that had an Acura RSX that had a misfire problem. He had changed the wheels and tires and was told that they were causing his problem. The larger wheels and tires had thrown the computer off. BS. My brother paid a Toyota dealer to rotate the tires on his Avalon at 5k and 10k at 15k the tires were worn so badly on the front they needed to be replaced. He asked the service department to see if they could determine why they were like that. Simple, they had not been rotated he was told. When he pointed out to the service manager that they had been paid to rotate his tires he was told, "it's an alignment issue". The tire store told him they did not need to charge him for an alignment when he bought new tires because his alignment was just fine.

Some service departments are useless and some are outstanding. We need to name names for the bad ones so people quit going there. And the good ones. I'll start by saying Vann Gannaway Chevrolet in Eustis Fl. is excellent.


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## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> I take my GTO to a Chevy dealer. I pulled up with a new GTO after getting rid of my Corvette, and asked if they could do the service on it. I was asked if I had a problem with the car and with the service department at the Pontiac dealer that I bought the car from (1 mile away). I told them no and no I just liked their service department. No other questions, they were glad to have me there as a customer.


Thats odd. I took mine to the Buick dealer down the road from me and they didn't want to work on it. At least they were honest about it, than take it in and complain.


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

Ah I love it,thats pretty good,are you listening Groucho?I was born and raised in Pontiac and have had a lot of Pontiacs,1969 Gto, and others,you have no idea the legacy Pontiac carrys,I'm so proud to drive a new GTO,i guess you have to grow up with them to appreicate the name! Hey they fixed your car didn't they?So what more do you want,and I'm sure it didn't take a whole 2 weeks!,if it did a transmission is a big deal give them time, i recently lost my power steering on my 2005 yellowjacket,scared me to death, i was driving it,i couldn't get ahold of my husband so i called my salesman and he came right up to help me,called the tow truck for me, and drove me back to the dealership,because i was in tears over my GTO,cuz it was broken,but the service guy came right out and gave me star treatment,i had it back in 5 days counting sat and sun.Thay replaced the whole power sterering unit because of a little hole in a rubber hose.....hey things happen,parts get broken......so don"t sweat over it and cut everybody in the industry down...just drive your GTO.....if you enjoy it...i Know I can't wait to get into my everyday ,cuz I'm a good ole Pontiac girl!!!!!!!


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

bluhaven said:


> Ah I love it,thats pretty good,are you listening Groucho?I was born and raised in Pontiac and have had a lot of Pontiacs,1969 Gto, and others,you have no idea the legacy Pontiac carrys,I'm so proud to drive a new GTO,i guess you have to grow up with them to appreicate the name! Hey they fixed your car didn't they?So what more do you want,and I'm sure it didn't take a whole 2 weeks!,if it did a transmission is a big deal give them time, i recently lost my power steering on my 2005 yellowjacket,scared me to death, i was driving it,i couldn't get ahold of my husband so i called my salesman and he came right up to help me,called the tow truck for me, and drove me back to the dealership,because i was in tears over my GTO,cuz it was broken,but the service guy came right out and gave me star treatment,i had it back in 5 days counting sat and sun.Thay replaced the whole power sterering unit because of a little hole in a rubber hose.....hey things happen,parts get broken......so don"t sweat over it and cut everybody in the industry down...just drive your GTO.....if you enjoy it...i Know I can't wait to get into my everyday ,cuz I'm a good ole Pontiac girl!!!!!!!


If you're taking about Greiner Pontiac, I've had nothing but great service with them. Not only was the service great but the Service Manager came out, extended his hand for a hand shake, engaged in a little car talk and ensured that I would have my car repaired in a timely matter. In one day, they replaced a leaking freeze plug and one of the coil pack covers. I see myself taking my car to Greiner from now on.


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

Yes Greiner has been good to us, met Mr. Greiner and son David they are from my home town near Detroit,they are all so nice in there, greet us each time we go in,and make sure everything is going ok......so you've had a couple of minor problems too,glad they took care of them.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I have been compensated for my costs incurred. 

All is well now...though I was pissed when they rolled my car around and it had two weeks of dust, dirt, and filth on it. I said something aloud that took a certain deity's name in vain...so they rolled it around and washed it.

It's _really_ nice to have my Goat back...that Vibe was getting on my nerves.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

In my opinion general motors dealer service sucks. I took the aurora to king orourke cadillac olds in lynbrook NY for some warranty work. besides adding a ding and telling me they will get to the car when they get around to it because i didnt buy it there, they did half the work. oh by the way, i made the appoint a month before because that was the first slot they had open for a non customers car. their service department was/is so bad that it took them three days to diagnose a power steering pump.

the car was towed there with the symptom no power steering. they just let it sit three days before looking at it, then ordered the parts. screw me, screw you when it comes to dropping another thirty large on a car.

then there was the pontiac dealer that worked on the aurora. replaced tie rods and didnt tell me the alignment might be off. really helped when i brought it in for a shimmy. they also changed one fog light housing per a TSB but not the other so one light was brighter than the other. i gave them a less than perfect survey because they were rude. my friend is an engineer at gm, and told me what had to be done.

the ahole advisor at morrissey pontiac told me if my friend knows so much why not just have him fix it. i got there at 7 am with an appointment, and they purposely made me wait over four hours before they did the minor work. they told me to screw myself the same day my buddy who bought an envoy from them was planning on meeting me to buy a new truck. i spoke to him on my cell by the owners office and told him not to meet me at morrissey. he bought an acura that day.

then there was the dealership that morphed from the dealer i bought the car from. i tell the guys at mack the car stalls and this is the tsb number. after putting my families life in grave danger by not reading the tsb and saying can not duplicate, the finally change the crank sensors.

but, they could not duplicate the ash tray popping open, steering wheel lights not working and one fog light brighter than the other. funny, i asked for the owner and showed him those problems. next trip they were fixed. also they said the shimmy was because the wheels were out of balance. i paid to balance all four and detailed the car the day before i dropped it off. two wheels had new weights, and miracle of miracles, the other two were in perfect balance. until i called their attention to it and they were rebalanced.

then when i brought the car back for the shimmy, the owner of Mack in hicksville tells me to take the gto to the dealer i bought it from because i didnt call him when i bought the gto. i told him i spoke to the salesman four times. 

so now i need another car because i sold the aurora. three weeks ago i asked the owner of mack about what we wanted. still waiting for him and the salesman to get back to me.

i bought the gto from arnold in babylon. i drove by them on friday and stopped in. i told the svc advisor the seat chattered. he looked up the tsb and ordered the part. i will drop it off when it comes in. arnold is a half hour further than mack. 

since the owner of mack told me to service the gto at arnold, i may just have to buy the new car from them. make that lease, not buy. i dont want a car that depreciates like a rock one day more than the bumper to bumper warranty.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

What a nightmare, Tom. Here's my war story:

Bought a Lincoln LS a few years ago right around Christmas. The AdvanceTrac electronic suspension system or whatever the heck it was called fizzes out on the 3 mile drive home. Great. Since it was really late, I took it back for service the next morning. Gave me a Town Car (a.k.a. "Das Boot") to drive around in. A black one. Looked exactly like those cheesy airport limos. Just a big, stupid black whale that was absolutely no fun to drive.

One week later, they finally call and say the car is finished. They call on a Wednesday at 530PM. They close at 6 -- so hurry up and get here. I'm up to my butt in alligators at work -- fiscal year end crap and travel -- so there's no way I can get there until Saturday. So what do they say? I'll have pay to ride around in the belly of the whale for the next few days. 

Thanks, guys!

Saturday rolls around. Slept through the alarm -- and I've got a bunch of stuff to do around the house before having people over for dinner that night. I'm in such a hurry and so stinkin' beat because my flight got in mucho hours late that I get up, put on clothes that were laying on top of the hamper because it's easier than opening the dresser, grab a can of diet Coke and go stumbling out the door. I get to the dealer around noon. I'm unshaved, wearing flip-flops, my trusty Steelers t-shirt that sort of stinks from the gym, and some sweatshorts. Didn't even comb my hair or brush my teeth. Honestly, I look like one of those guys getting dragging out of a doublewide on COPS. 

I ask for my car, but all of their sales staff is working on deals (service department is closed for the weekend, of course) -- so instead of bringing the car around, they just throw me the keys and tell me it's out back. So waaaaaaay out in the very back of this huge lot is my brand new car that I've driven a grand total of 6 miles. It's parked under telephone lines -- where pigeons the size of turkeys have been taking pancake sized dumps all over it for three days.

I drive the car up to the showroom and tell them to go and wash my car. The sales manager says to leave it and they'll have someone get to it later in the day. Of course, this was an f-you move because he already knew that I had taken the rental back to Enterprise (he saw me get dropped off by some kid wearing a clip-on tie).

Got a little mouthy with the guy -- but he wasn't going to budge. So, I said "screw it," hop into my pigeon turd, complete with nest twigs and FEATHERS STUCK ON IT because -- I dunno, maybe their azzes were ripping open as flour sack sized craps passed through them -- when the same warning comes on again about half of the way home.

SNAP

Flipped a u-turn that turned into a four wheel drift/semi-spinout right then and there, pile the car into the dealership so hard it smacks the bottom of the front bumper off a concrete entrance ramp, and slam the transmission into park while doing around 20 -- under an awning right next to the showroom where all these salespeople are haggling with customers. There was some kind of rubber coating on the ground under the awning -- along with a few oil spots -- so the tires make this REALLY LOUD screeching sound that just makes everything stop throughout the showroom. 

I come flying out of the car, throw the glass and aluminum door open so hard it swings 180 degrees around and smacks into the wall, stomp into the dealership and just start screaming at people for my *&%$#@ money back. The first guy was my salesman. At first, his customers, a youngish couple, just sit back in their chairs -- mouths open. He pops off -- telling me it's the service department's problem -- whereupon a big blob of spit comes spraying out of my mouth I'm so beside myself when telling him to go f himself. At that point, his customers completely freak out and leave. Then I went after his sales manager -- and his customers take off as well. 

The owner comes strutting out of his office and grabs me by the arm. What does he say? "SIR, SIR, SIR, do you know the AdvanceTrac takes a few days to learn how to adapt to each driver's needs?" I rip my arm out of his hand so hard it kind of flies up and goes zipping by his head. To avoid it, he spins around and stumbles backwards -- sort of pinballing off some Mercurys on the showroom floor to keep his balance. 

At this point, salesmen and customers are peering around the corners of walls and doors and over the tops of cubicles at me like I'm about to take an Uzi and start shooting. I feel like Lou Ferrigno in The Incredible Hulk. All that's needed is that noise from the Six Million Dollar man -- and I'm grabbing that big wooden "available new car" color chip/interior combination display and throwing it at somebody.

Finally, the sales manager, now that all of his customers are now driving through the bushes and over the front lawn of the dealership just to get the hell out of there, comes running out of his office with a giant folder of paperwork. Well, what do you know? He hasn't sent the paperwork on my car into the DMV yet. He can unwind my deal. 

I agree to wait in the empty service department office while they prepare a release form. I scratch my name and go stomping off, crumpled paper in hand -- still so P.O.'d I forget to call my wife for a ride home. And I'll tell you what, that stupid car sat on their lot for MONTHS afterward.

Moral of the story? You can get anybody to treat you nice -- as long as they are absolutely, positively SURE you're about to kill them.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I know a person that bought a VW Touareg. On the way home from the dealer it quit. They came out with a flatbed and another Touareg. That one quit. They fixed her Touareg (she really wanted it) and on the way home from it being fixed it quit. The dealer took it back knowing that she was an Attorny and they were going to have a fight. 
I know a guy that has an 03 Acura TL. It has 108,000 on it. At 61k the transmission went. They told him the warranty period is the warranty period sorry your outta luck. This car sees all highway miles. It cost him over $3,000 plus the rental car he had to get for two plus weeks. Seems Honda has a problem with the 5spd auto in those cars and parts were on backorder. Tranny is starting to act up again so he is car shopping.
Most dealers do a fair job of taking care of customers. The foreign car dealers seem to be more consistent. The best service I've gotten has come from the domestics, and it was really good. The worst has been from domestics and it was horrible.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

Funny you should say they wanted you to pay for the rental.

When the Aurora was stalling I called the NHTSA and GM customre disservice numbers just like the owners manual says. My buddy at GM suggested they hook up a black box and that i let the svc mgr use the car a few days.

I tell Rueben Martinez of customer disservice that i will do one better, I will let the svc mgr use my car for a month to find the hard to diagnose stalling problem (you know the one that had a TSB out for over a year). All i asked for was a full size car, i said they could take something off the used car lot, i didnt care, just something to take the company coming in from out of state around in like my aurora.

the piece of crap martinez tells me that they will only give me $25 a day towards the $28 a day rental, and get this are you sitting.

While I pay insurance and monthly payments on my Aurora, and the svc mgr used my car for his personal errands waiting for it to stall, if it doesnt stall for him, I have to pay for the whole rental! That was when I got just a little pissed. When i got really pissed was when i called a few days later and got someone else that pulled my file and said rueben martinez was working on my case, but he had no action plan set up.

i guess his plan was wait till i stalled on the tappan zee bridge and got hit by a tanker truck so the car could pull a pinto (like what happened that weekend to a family - tragedy, but for the grace...). Remember this isnt the dealer, this is teh 800 number of GM customer service.

Ferg,
I bet if your buddy sends a letter to honda north america and informs them of the problems they had with transmission cooling on the TL's and the TSB/recall on the car he will get reimbursed. He got the bad dealer.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

ROFLMFAO B_A_Betterperson.... I love your approach to the problem. I'll have to try the "seem like you're about to snap and are willing to spend the rest of your life in a federal penitentiary" technique next time I ever have any major problems with a car, althouhgh I did that once before to a minor degree.

For me though, I learned a valuable lesson from the car/service problems I've had... NEVER BUY A CHRYSLER/DODGE.

Two years ago, my parents get a used 2000 Chrysler 300M in September of that year. Absolutely love the car at first because it seems like a nice luxury car and I'm the one who's driving my parents around in it the most. Well, one month later I'm driving down the road the car randomly stalls out completely. I pull off to the side of the road, get it started again, and begin going on. at most 30 seconds later the car stalls out again, so I immediately head back to my house cause I know I'm not getting anywhere with this car stalling every 15-30 seconds after any driving has been done. Next morning I go out with my parents to the dealership to put our flashy new warranty to use. When we're headed to the dealership now though, the 300M decides it's not going to stall out anymore, awesome! 

So as soon as I turned onto a street where the speed limit was 40MPH, I realize that the car decided to screw me out in a different way. First I found it curious when the engine sounded like it was working its ass off at 40, so at the next stop light I listen to it closely as I'm accelerating slowly. Started from a stop in first gear, then shifted into second (It's an automatic with v-tec manual shifter capabilities kind of thing) at around the usual 15 mph, and then it got up to 30.... and 35... and 40... and I realized at 45 that my car was about to blow the hood off in a mini-mushroom cloud of smoke right then, so I slowed down a bit. Yes! Now my car would not go past 2nd gear; I tried using the manual shifter and of course that didn't get it into 3rd either.

So with me knowing a lot about cars, but little about tranny's. I decided I'd have to take it into the dealer still and give that nice warranty a work-out anyway.

We get to the dealership, and they say they'll get right on it. Now we bought an extended warranty plan with that particular dealer, which just helped to screw us over some more which you may see later on. We don't bother taking advantage of the "get a rental while you're car is being worked on" because it's easy enough to just ride around in our gas-guzzler van for a few days. Although I will note that in our warranty with the dealer it said that we can get a rental car of equal size to the car that is in the shop for a maximum coverage of 3 weeks as long as it isn't completely the dealers fault that our car is in the shop for 3 weeks.

So anyway, the dealer got right to work on fixing our car the next day, and on the third day he calls us up and lets us know that she's ready to be picked up (we're also into November by now). We go down, pay the whole diagnostic fee that they charged for hooking up the car to their system (they said it cost $150?!?), and we finally picked up the car and went home. It's working great for the first half of the ride, until I'm on a 55 MPH road and the car suddenly drops into 2nd gear. Guess what? The same problem came back. So we went to the dealership a little ticked off and ended up giving them the car again to work on.

They call us the next day and say that there's a bad part involved in the shifting process between the 2nd and 3rd gear, and that they have one laying around in the shop but they aren't completely sure if it's good or not. We tell them to go ahead and install that one and hopefully it will be fixed. We come pick the car back up 2 days later, and low and behold same problem comes up, AND we were hit with another BS $150 diagnostic fee. We of course take it right back to he dealer and they were getting upset at us bringing the car to them so much at this point.

We're told that the same part they need to get now is on severe back-order from Dodge because so many cars are having the same problem, and it may take up to a month to get one. So hell, we finally take the rental car offer. 

I was extremely happy when I saw that the full-size luxury car we were covered to get for the time being was a nice little Dodge Neon. [I also learned the lesson that Neon's must be one of the crappiest cars in the world - the thing started swerving oh so slightly at 55 MPH because of the wind resistance it was getting]. We go on driving the Neon for the next 2 weeks and get upset when we find out that the dealership forgot to place the order for the part we needed. They appologize greatly, order the part, and guarantee us that the previous 2 weeks would be covered for the rental because of their mess-up.

After another two weeks, my mom gets a call from the rental agency to let us know that the dealerships coverage has worn out, and that we would now be paying $25 a day for the rental. We call the rental agency and ask them why they can't cover us still when it is kind of their fault that our car still isn't ready (yeah, we're into December by now, which was when my 16th bday was, and I can't get my official liscense until we have our car back basically). They get into an arguement with us saying they aren't responsible for the part not being here... which we can't blame them for that... bt that they can't continue to cover us anyway. So my mom decides to call up the Dodge HQ and find out where the order on the list from _______ Dodge/Chrysler stood in line. The manager she was talking to searches for it and says he's sorry, but he can't find any order for the part we needed. She explains the story to him and he said it was an interesting story they gave us seeing as how that part is not in great demand from any problems. We asked if we could place the order ourselves and he said that he would have it to the dealership in a week max.

One more week passes, and we call the dealership inquiring about the part we ordered and they first say "No we don't have it". After my mom calls the HQ again to confirm it was delivered, the dealership does some looking around and sounding suprised they said "Oh look! here it is! *nervous laugh*". Woo hoo the part is thrown in and we come get our car. Well my mom did because I was out for the day so I remember leaving that morning seeing the blue neon in our driveway and being anxious about seeing our 300 there when I got back. Later that day I get dropped off, and am confused when I see a silver neon now in the spot. Immediately I say "Aw who ****ed up what now?". So I go inside and my parents tell me the same problem happened and that they were now going to completely put in a new tranny, a $3.5k job from their estimates (they gave some reason as to why this job was not covered under warranty). This after being hit by another $150 diagnostic fee, $175 of rental fee, and a $250 "special order" fee they hit us with for special ordering the part from the factory.

We're mad at this point, and then we find out they are not willing to cover us for at least another 3 weeks under a rental even though it was a completely different job they were doing on the car now. So we go back and rent another ****ing neon (suprisingly the $25 a day + gas money came out cheaper than if we were to drive around our huge ass van under normal use). We go back a week and a half later to pick up our car with a new transmission, on a very very cold day. We're doing a lot of highway driving that day and it seems our problems are solved because the car is doing fine, until 3 hours after that when the same thing happens again.

This time we go back to the dealership, my mother, father and myself, all about to explode in the showroom because of the now $4k+ we have spent for nothing. They say they will take it and have their lead mechanic drive it around for a whole dayto see if he cold figure out what was wrong. They call us two days later and say the tranny was just having some problems breaking in and that it is fine now. We come get our car and return the neon again. This time they charge us the $150 diagnostic fee + some $200 for a "labor fee" when they did pretty much nothing seeing as how the mechanic that "drove" it had 2 days off anyway... so he shouldnt get paid for driving around in our car on his free time. When we get the car, the problem of course starts up again. This time though, me being so smart at 16... I tell my parents I want to observe a few things bfore we return it to the dealership.

I found out the car would work fine until the engine heated up and the needle on the meter on your console went 3/8 the way up the scale. Now me knowing a good deal about electronics, I figured that when things heat up they expand, and that in electronics if there is a tiny crack in a connecector (mainly in comp chips and such) and it heats up and expands that crack can grow large enough to distort and break the connection that is there. I guessed that this was happening seeing as how the car only stopped shifting up after it was heated up (thus why it took a long while for it to go bad on that very very cold day). 

We then go back to the dealership AGAIN and this time I personally explain to the mechanics what I wanted them to look for and that we very damn well wanted them to do it. We knew the one mechanic didn't drive it for 2 days otherwise he sure as hell would have come across the problem. They take the car apart for 3 days, and find a nice little computer chip in the "central brain" on the car that controlled the tranny and had a hairline crack in it. They replaced it 2 days later at a cost of $500 for the chip (AND OMG, NO DIAGNOSTIC FEE FOR ONCE). So at this point, we had a good standing $5k paid for this bull****.

After working with the service dept. at the dealership we find out they aren't going to repay us for the bogus tranny replacement job they did and everything else like that. 

- I have now learned the value of a lawyer if you need one! -

We walk into the showroom 2 days later and make it well known that they have a nice lawsuit against them (and yes we hit them as hard as possible because we were very ****ing pissed off). They needed to reimburse us for all parts and labor, even the final comp chip that was put in because the lawyer studied the warranty contract and found that the chip was stated to be covered. The also needed to reimburse us for the rental fee's at this point because it was very well their damn fault we needed that car for so long. Then came the extra as I would kind of consider "bogus charges" the lawyer tacked onto the suit (gotta love America), but they were very real indeed. We were basically hitting them for bad business practice, taking advantage of a customer, and emotional frustration.

In the end, we were awarded the $5,000+ for the parts and labor, and awarded $3,000 extra for the "add-ons". 

The *HOLLER AUTOMOTIVE CHAIN* in Central Florida decided to sell it's Chrysler/Dodge branch off because of the bad rep it had gained. I will admit we had more difficulties with the dealer in this case than the actual car compnay... but I won't ever be able to buy a Dodge or Chrysler again after this.

And a very good thing came out of this too, that $3k we got?.... It went to help pay for my new goat.

The moral of this story: If you get cheated and pissed off at a car dealership that isn't of Pontiac or GM - sue the crap out of them and buy a goat.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

After trying to negotiate for a Viper GTS a few years ago -- I will never buy a DaimlerChrylser product. Dodge dealers are, by far, the WORST of the bunch I've ever dealt with -- although I've heard some of the Toyota and Honda dealers are real freak shows, too.


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