# Presenting my new 1968 GTO convertible



## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey all......I would like to present my "new" 1968 GTO convertible.....ain't she a site of beauty? I traded my old rust bucket, a 1968 LeMans convertible, for this work of art. At least she is virtually rust free (or at least solid floors with straight almost rust free quarters). Believe it or not, it is a near complete car, minus a front bumper and radiator, it just all needs to be put together. Now let the fun begin.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Didja get a drivetrain MrV? Is that the original color? 4 spd or auto?


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

To start off, this car IS an upgrade from what I had. Plus all the missing parts (body parts, engine and tranny) I have sitting in my garage. For I had expected to replace those parts on my old LeMans, so I am good there.

Now to answer your questions. No, not original color. Original color was white. It is an automatic, with a Hurst dual gate his/her shifter. It has a 10-bolt rear end. No it did not come with an engine, tranny or drive shaft, but I have a 1972 400 YS code engine with 7K3 heads and a Turbo 400 tranny to go in it for now. Sadly, although this is a true 242 car, it is not a numbers matching car. 

When I put it all together it will be that red color with black top and interior. My last car was consumed with rust damage. The floors and quarters were simply horrible. But it also had severe frame issues and almost every body part needed to be repaired or replaced. The only good parts were the doors and trunk lid. So this new car is truly an upgrade.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

LOOKS GOOD TO ME !!!:cheers...............here's a before--during--and almost done pic of my little project!:cheers Eric


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

here is my old car, a 1968 Pontia LeMans convertible (GTO clone).....I traded this straight accross for the new project. On this car , it looks good from 20 feet away going 20 mph, but it had issues from front to back. 
1) frame is rusted and damaged, then poorly repaired.
2) floors are rusted with a poor patch job.
3) quarters are rusted, repaired by placing a fiberglass patch and a mental skin over the rusted areas (did not cut out old rust).
4) engine is old and tire, burns oil and runs rich.
5) interior is complete, but door panels and carpeting are from some other car besides a GTO or LeMans. All the regulators are stripped.
6) inner fender wells, both front and rear are rusted.
7) front valance is fiberbglass, is cracked and held on by zip ties. 

But believe it or not, I was still able to trade it straight accross for the new one, and I even told the buyer/seller of all the known issues.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

If your new project car is as rust free as you say I think you did great on the trade. Don't get so overwhelmed by the beginnings of the project. It took me 14 years to be in a position where I had the space and the money to really get started on my car, take a deep breath and itemize what needs to be done! :cheers


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> If your new project car is as rust free as you say I think you did great on the trade. Don't get so overwhelmed by the beginnings of the project. It took me 14 years to be in a position where I had the space and the money to really get started on my car, take a deep breath and itemize what needs to be done! :cheers


Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, it is really dry when it comes to rust. I have gone over this car a dozen times, I know there is a small amount of rust (about 1/2" wide by 2" long) on the driver side quarter, right on the wheel well lip, there is a silver dollar size rust spot in trunk and of course there is minimal amount of rust on the cowl under the windshield. So it is not perfect, but doable. According to the magnet test, there is one baseball size spot on the passenger quarter that is a bit heavy on bondo.

Heck, I was only $3,900 into the LeMans, and now with this car (traded straight accross), and the parts I picked up (engine, tranny, fenders, misc), I am about $6,500 into it. I am already in the process of prioritizing my build. Just checked with body shop to schedule it to get media blasted (since car is already in pieces) and primed. Still working on getting engine running.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Looks like you did good. Do you have all the body panels for it, or have to find them? Front clip could get pricey, but rust free is worth it's weight. Nice find, good luck on the build..


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

jetstang said:


> Looks like you did good. Do you have all the body panels for it, or have to find them? Front clip could get pricey, but rust free is worth it's weight. Nice find, good luck on the build..


Yes, I managed to collect the entire front end, minus a bumper. I have both fenders, both inner fenders, the front valance, the hood and the full non-hide-away headlight grill/assembly, all for $1,200.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Good deal, be sure the shop knows what they are doing while media blasting panels. The heat can distort them depending on the media used.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Good deal, be sure the shop knows what they are doing while media blasting panels. The heat can distort them depending on the media used.


I think I am going with soda blasting. From what I hear, that seems to be the most acceptable method. But thanks for the tip, I was not aware that certain kinds of media blasting could distort the metal.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey guys, here is my girl wth her front fenders on (I grant the fenders are just sitting there), now she almost looks respectable. She is working on being a Frankenstein GTO.....she is a 1968 GTO convertible with body parts from more than one donor car; right now I have a 1972 Pontiac 400 waiting to go in her; and it looks like I will be going with 1969 upholstery and door panels. Well enjoy this pic, I will post more as I go along.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

I see you're in the Bay Area. I'm in Santa Rosa. There's a guy up here who does soda blasting and I believe he can come to you if you have a place to do it. I don't have his card anymore, but his business name is S&B soda blasting. I used him for the truck I'm doing and he did a great job for me.

Chuck


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

chuckha62 said:


> I see you're in the Bay Area. I'm in Santa Rosa. There's a guy up here who does soda blasting and I believe he can come to you if you have a place to do it. I don't have his card anymore, but his business name is S&B soda blasting. I used him for the truck I'm doing and he did a great job for me.
> 
> Chuck


I think I have talked to him. He advertises on Craigslist often. My problem is I do not have a place for him to come to. I live ina typical California residential place, you know where my lot size is like 60' x 100' (or something close). Ironically I actually have close to a 1/4 acre, but it is an irregular lot size, I live at the end a small court which make front yard and access to backyard small, while the large back yard is on a hill. So I need to figure out where to get it done.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Some of them will meet you in a field or something. Call to see if he knows of a place...

Be sure to have a place lined up to immediately ospho and prime the bare metal. You don't want it left bare even for a day. Also the rinsing out of all the soda takes hours and you will be cleaning it out of nooks and crannies for years to come.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Some of them will meet you in a field or something. Call to see if he knows of a place...
> 
> Be sure to have a place lined up to immediately ospho and prime the bare metal. You don't want it left bare even for a day. Also the rinsing out of all the soda takes hours and you will be cleaning it out of nooks and crannies for years to come.


I do remember reading about that little issue in your post on your car. I expect that. 

My body shop has a place that media blasts the car (not sure what kind of media blast) and the immediately primes it. I was told to expect about $2,000 in costs and as much as 3 weeks to get it done (apparently it is real popular around here).


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

chuckha62 said:


> I see you're in the Bay Area. I'm in Santa Rosa. There's a guy up here who does soda blasting and I believe he can come to you if you have a place to do it. I don't have his card anymore, but his business name is S&B soda blasting. I used him for the truck I'm doing and he did a great job for me.
> 
> Chuck


I just talked to S&B Soda Blasting, he was not the guy I thought I had talked to before. I liked what this guy had to say about blasting. He mentioned that although he is mobile, he does have a location for me to drop my car off. He does not primer car afterwards, but I will be ready with primer. 

He said it would be about $1,000-$1,300 and about 5-6 hours of time. He told me if I drop oiff car by 7 am, he will have it ready by 2-3 pm that day. So I am working on making an appoint to get my car blasted. 

flambeau, I forgot to ask about, does soda blasting take off all the paint, rust and bondo? Or do I need something else to take off the bondo? Once stripped, what kind of primer should I use?

When you say the rinsing takes hours, please explain. My car will be stripped of front end, doors, trunk lid and all interior (incuding dash pas, dash face/gauges). So he blasts the car first, then it has to be rinsed off?


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

mrvandermey said:


> I just talked to S&B Soda Blasting, he was not the guy I thought I had talked to before. I liked what this guy had to say about blasting. He mentioned that although he is mobile, he does have a location for me to drop my car off. He does not primer car afterwards, but I will be ready with primer.
> 
> He said it would be about $1,000-$1,300 and about 5-6 hours of time. He told me if I drop oiff car by 7 am, he will have it ready by 2-3 pm that day. So I am working on making an appoint to get my car blasted.
> 
> ...


Yeah, he has a place outside of Sebastopol. It's hard to find, but I found it. That's where I took my truck. It's an old dairy farm and he's got no one around him. 

Sounds like you'll be in the area for awhile that day. Drop me a line when you know when. Maybe I can suggest some things to kill time. Or bring the significant other and do some wine tasting. We have a couple of places up here...


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

chuckha62 said:


> Yeah, he has a place outside of Sebastopol. It's hard to find, but I found it. That's where I took my truck. It's an old dairy farm and he's got no one around him.
> 
> Sounds like you'll be in the area for awhile that day. Drop me a line when you know when. Maybe I can suggest some things to kill time. Or bring the significant other and do some wine tasting. We have a couple of places up here...



I absolutely plan on bringing the significant other, for she is dying to ask the soda blaster if she can take a gander at using his machine. She loves power tools. In fact, she is a car girl herself. After I finish the GTO, I will be working on a Classic Mustang for her. 

I definitely will connect with you. Meeting a fellow GTO guy is always cool.:cheers


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Every bit of the soda needs to be rinsed off, then you have to neutralize the soda and treat the metal prior to application of etching primer. A lot depends on the body work necessary and who is doing it. I'll try to find some good links for you tonight, in the mean time Google "prep after soda blasting" and read up. Don't rush in there's a lot of info out there.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Flambeau is absolutely correct about rinsing and neutralizing. The good news however is that you do have some time. According to the soda blaster guy (and the body shop who referred me), soda blasting leaves a somewhat protective film over the bare metal. Once you rinse it, you're on the clock.

Once you know the plan, shoot me a message. Not only do we have the wine...we've become sort of the Mecca for Micro brews lately. Including the much heralded Pliny the Elder (if you're into beer, that is).

Chuck


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Every bit of the soda needs to be rinsed off, then you have to neutralize the soda and treat the metal prior to application of etching primer. A lot depends on the body work necessary and who is doing it. I'll try to find some good links for you tonight, in the mean time Google "prep after soda blasting" and read up. Don't rush in there's a lot of info out there.


See, this is good information. I have heard a lot about soda blasting over the years, but no one has ever mentioned the rinsing or the "prep after soda blasting". I most certainly will read up on this.

Does soda blasting remove paint, rust and bondo? What is the neutralizer? Can I get etching primer in a rattle can or must it be done professionally (spray gun, air compressor, etc)? Is etching primer also a rust inhibitor?


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

mrvandermey said:


> Does soda blasting remove paint, rust and bondo? What is the neutralizer? Can I get etching primer in a rattle can or must it be done professionally (spray gun, air compressor, etc)? Is etching primer also a rust inhibitor?


In a word, yes! It removes it all. Rust of course, will need to be treated differently, or better yet, cut out and replaced. Etching primer can be obtained in rattle cans, but it'll be very expensive. Etching primer is the sealer to prevent rust re-occurance once you've treated it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Before you automatically go to etch primer, put some thought into what you plan to put over it. For example, many of the various epoxy primers are NOT compatible with etch primer and will give you problems if you apply them over it. Not paying attention to that on my 69 put me in the lovely position of having to sand all the etch primer -off- before I could continue.

Bear


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Before you automatically go to etch primer, put some thought into what you plan to put over it. For example, many of the various epoxy primers are NOT compatible with etch primer and will give you problems if you apply them over it. Not paying attention to that on my 69 put me in the lovely position of having to sand all the etch primer -off- before I could continue.
> 
> Bear


I am not totally sure what you mean by what I plan to put over it. I of course want the old paint, and the very minor rust (on edge of rear quarter panel wheel well lip only, which will be cut out and patched) removed and of course I want the 3-4 spots of minor bondo removed. I also want to prime car in order to prevent any new rust, and I want the car to be red once final paint job is done. I do not know much about body work, primer, or paint. Likely I will end up relying on my body shop's advice.

On another note, I managed to clean out interior and with the help of my 11 year old daughter
(yes, she is a car girl and she hopes by serving wrenching time, she will get to drive either the GTO or my MGB when she turns 16, this is a pic of her wrenching), we managed to replace the less desirable driver door with a better spare door I had lying around in garage. 

Question, I took this fender and this spare door off the respective donor cars myself and on the donor cars the body lines (doors to fenders) lined up nicely. I also saw the original doors and front fenders on my car and the body lines lined up. Now, although the fender is not bolted on and is just sitting there, the body lines between fender and door do not line up as nice. Is this normal? Once I bolt the fender down and use the necessary shims, the body lines and door gap should be corrected, right?


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I am learning that a 40+ year old restoration project is always worse than you think. Here is the before pic and after pic on the driver,s side rear fender well. Yes, the rust on the fender lip is worse that I had originally believed, it is still contained to the same area as I had originally believed. But it is still a sickening sight.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I feel for you. I got my 66, had a few bubbles in front of the wheels, and a couple other issues, but presentable and good looking. Come to find out the lower rear window and trunk seal areas were built out of fiberglass. Your's isn't that bad, and a shop can take care of that with a couple patch panels. Don't even assume that is the last rust you will find, lol..


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

jetstang said:


> Your's isn't that bad, and a shop can take care of that with a couple patch panels. Don't even assume that is the last rust you will find, lol..


Oh , I have no doubt that there is some hidden surprises. When I got this car, there were a few bubbles in the driver's quarters, just along the wheel well lip, and there were a couple visible spots of rust on the cowl under the windshield as well as a silver dollar size rust spot in trunk.

So here the in the quarter (and likely elsewhere) the rust is worse than originally believed, but not worse than I expected to repair/replace. I am glad to hear that it is not as bad as it looks in person and my shop should be able to fix it with a patch (which I already have in my garage).


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

mrvandermey said:


> I am not totally sure what you mean by what I plan to put over it.


By "put over it" I mean all the various coatings: bare metal primer, primer/surfacer (for blocking/sanding), sealer (if you plan to use one), and paint (base+clear or single stage). All the various materials have to be compatible with each other. You can't assume that you can put down one brand of bare metal primer and it will be ok with a different brand of primer/surfacer (or sealer, or finish paint). The time to plan all this out is NOW, before you remove the current finish and expose the bare metal, because once you do that the clock will be running on you - you'll want to get something on the metal quickly to guard against rust (and don't assume that you can put a car in primer and then let it sit outside because most primers are NOT moisture tight). Also many/most of the modern coatings have a "recoat window", meaning that once you apply them there's a minimum amount of time you have to wait before applying something over them, and also a maximum amount of time you can let pass before you apply the next layer of material. If you wait too long, then you have to sand the whole car to roughen up the surface and then apply another coat of the same material to "reset the clock" before you can apply the next layer. Most epoxy primers, sealers, and finish paint (base+clear or single stage) will have a maximum recoat window time. Most primer/surfacers do not. Every coating manufacturer will have something called a P-sheet or tech sheet for eadh product that describes all of the "rules" for that particular product and how to use it. The quality vendors will also have a tech line you can call to get this information. The cost of running that tech line is built in to the cost of the product, so use it - you've already paid for it.  Generally, once you start with a certain brand, you want to use everything from the same brand: bare metal primer, primer/surfacer, sealer, and finish paint. Otherwise, you're taking a big risk with compatibility problems.

Let me recommend to you a seriies of videos and another web forum. Kevin Tetz (from the Trucks! Powerblock TV show) has a set of educational videos out, called "Paintucation". Get them here: Kevin Tetz's Paintucation OFFICIAL SITE and other places. His web forum is here: Paintucation Forum

When I started in on my 69, I had never done body work, metal work, paint, etc. before - at all. I used those two tools as resources, and did 100% of the work myself. People I meet at car shows are blown away when I tell them this was my first ever paint job, and I did it in my garage with no spray booth. I couldn't have done it without Kevin's help.



> Question, I took this fender and this spare door of the respective donor cars myself and on the donor cars the body lines (doors to fenders) lined up nicely. I also saw the original doors and front fenders on my car and the body lines lined up. Now, although the fender is not bolted on and is just sitting there, the body lines between fender and door do not line up as nice. Is this normal? Once I bolt the fender down and use the necessary shims, the body lines and door gap should be corrected, right?


This is normal. That's why things like elongated bolt holes in panels and adjustment shims exist. Remember these cars were all mass produced and assembled by folks who sometimes were suffering from the effects of too much partying over the weekend, having a bad day, or just generally eaten up with orneryness. 

Bear


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Bear, on the brand of paint, I should contact my body shop and ask them what brand they use, correct? For the chances of me painting it myself seems like a long shot, for sanding intimdates me and nor do I have a spray gun set up, a paint both set up, or even an air compressor. And of course, I do not have a welder nor do I know how to weld (you know to make the patch panel and put it into place). So sadly, I am likely going to heavily depend on my body shop and their professional opinion. Now, I might get brave and do as much of the paint prep work as I can (but sanding really scares me) so as to reduce the cost I will spend on paint and body work.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yessir. If you already know which shop is going to paint it, and if you're going to want the media blaster to put it in some kind of primer for you (or if you're going to do that yourself) then you should definitely check with the shop to make sure that whatever you put on the bare metal is going to be compatible with what your body shop is going to use.

No reason to be scared of sanding. It's just long hours  

Bear


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

If you already have your body shop picked, call or stop by, sit down and talk with a tech experienced in baking soda. Put together a plan of attack from the get go before you touch the paint. have everything ready for clean prep and prime well in advance. If your body shop is not well versed in soda find one that is, at least for the primer. The very last thing you want to deal with is an adhesion issue trust me. You only get one shot at a good base.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> If you already have your body shop picked, call or stop by, sit down and talk with a tech experienced in baking soda. Put together a plan of attack from the get go before you touch the paint. have everything ready for clean prep and prime well in advance. If your body shop is not well versed in soda find one that is, at least for the primer. The very last thing you want to deal with is an adhesion issue trust me. You only get one shot at a good base.


So I talk to my shop, find out what brand they for paint and/or primer. Then when I get car soda blasted, I then pressure wash with water then use a product such as HoldTight102 to nuetralize, then use etching primer, then pain table primer, and from there I sad, block, etc to prep for paint? Did I get the gist if it?



BearGFR said:


> Yessir. If you already know which shop is going to paint it, and if you're going to want the media blaster to put it in some kind of primer for you (or if you're going to do that yourself) then you should definitely check with the shop to make sure that whatever you put on the bare metal is going to be compatible with what your body shop is going to use.
> 
> No reason to be scared of sanding. It's just long hours
> 
> Bear


Sanding scares me because it is possible to sand too much and cause damage to the surface being sanded. Or in the alternative, I can sand not enough and have a crappy surface. The problem is I have no way too gauge whether I sanded too much or too little. I really do not grasp the different kinds if sanding and sanding material.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I did my homework on blasting and painting. My shop uses PPG brands paints and primers. They even recommended a primer/sealer to use. So now, with any luck, I will be taking the car in to get blasted within the next two weeks or so. 

I do need some help with exterior trim removal.....see my other thread on that.

On another note, as of right now, I have all the body parts except the endura bumper, the hood (the I currently have is trash) and the finishing touch, a convertible rear spoiler. I am working on getting the interior parts too. I have discovered that the convertible rear arm rests and convertible top piston cover are not an easy pieces to come by. Are the original pieces metal covered in upholstery or are they plastic? My lower arm rests are shot since some fool decided to put 6x9 speaker cut outs there. However, the upper piece (the pconvertible top piston covers) looks pretty good.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I started the tear down to prepare it for blasting. Yes, there is 95% of a complete car in all of this. Also the engine bay, frame, firewall and even the radiator support all look pretty good. Now I need to find what tools I have to start trying to get the trim off.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Damn, I hate that I do not have any exeperience with body work or rust repair. For I simply do not know whether a particular rust area is a huge a problem or whether it is a relatively easy repair. For example, It appears that most of my rust issues are narrowed down to two spots....1) driver's side rear quarter panel in the fender well lip only and 2) the driver's side of the trunk floor has significant surface rust that also includes two small areas of rust holes. To me it it looks bad in both spots.....but a body shop guy might have a different opinion. 

I know there are a couple rust spots under the windshield where the windshield meets the dash; and on one of the replacement doors, there are 2-3 rust bubbles that may go all the way through or come close to it. My mind screams to replace the entire door (again) but that may not be practical. However, if a new door is cheaper than the added body work, then a new door it will be.

The trim work is still giving me a bit of grief. I got most of it off......but the four pieces around d the windshield and the rear cockpit surround still have me dumbfounded. By the way, is the rear bumper really only held on by the four bolts on the frame or am I missing something?


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

You can buy door skins if your body shop thinks it would be easier.

There's a tool to aid in removing the windshield trim. It's still tricky even with the tool, but it helps. Ames and Performance Years both sell them. They're available elsewhere too. You might want to have a mobile glass guy come out and pull your trim and your windshield at the same time.

As I recall, the bumper is held on with four bolts... Two on each side.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

I actually thought about the idea of calling out a windshield guy to remove my windshield and in the process getting the trim off too, for the whindshiled is cracked and I need it out to get to the minor rust area where the dash meets the windshield.

Right now though, I am having one of those discourgaing moments. Yes, I have a nearly complete 1968 GTO convertible sitting in my garage, the problem lies is that although it is nearly complete, it is no where near completely together. In fact I am just a few pieces away of having the entire car stripped down for blasting (rear bumper, a couple trim pieces and the carpeting...all of which should be out this weekend some time). Now comes the discouraging part, wondering whether or not it will ever go back together to be a completed running car. It is days like this that I play with the idea of just dumping the entire project....maye even going so far as to buying a brand new Camaro or such. 

Although I am not mechanically inclined, I can usually figure out how to take something apart (I grant, I might take longer to do it or do it in the least efficient way, but will get it done); but I am not so good at putting things back together and getting them operational. This is one of those days I am beginning to think I bit off way more than I can chew. It really sucks to have a love for old cars but very little mechanical skills.


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## GhostTown (Jan 25, 2011)

I am a lot like you. A lot. This is why I enlisted help on the repair work. I'm no welder. I'm no body guy. I don't want to destroy my car. 

I can take a part off, buy a new one, and put the new one on. But the scope of an entire car restoration usually needs some one with an extreme amount of time, or a lot of experience, or both, which generally means a professional. That's who I went with.

If I were you, I'd stop taking the car apart and start looking for someone who will help you with the body repair work. From that point, I would work to put the car back together, again enlisting someone with experience. When it's back together and the car runs, you can then start thinking about paint, upholstery, shiny chrome, etc. Unless you have 20 grand up front, it's just too hard to put these things together all at once. When the car is together and you actually have something solid to build on, something that is drivable and insurable, you can enjoy the car while you're fixing it up over time.

I mention this from experience. I'm on my second vehicle here. I tore apart the first one I bought (old truck) and $12,000 later it is still sitting unfinished in my garage. I only drove the vehicle one time for about 5 minutes, then I tore it apart the day I bought it. Six years later it still sits without me ever enjoying it. I've thought about getting rid of it, but I'm too close and would lose way to much money. Also, my pride won't let me give up. The entire rolling chassis is done, engine done, brakes, everything powder coated, Ride Tech suspension........ it just sits.

The Pontiac I'm working on now will be drivable after 3 months from starting on it, and it was wrecked to hell and back. When the wrecked part is fixed it will still need a ton of body work, but I'm going to wait and drive it for a while. When I start spending money on it again I'll feel like I'm actually getting something for my money, rather than feeling like I'm throwing cash into a hole like I did with that truck.

Sorry for the long story. I just wanted to tell you that you're not the only one who struggles with this stuff, and that it usually is all about each persons approach to restoring a car that brings on the "**ck it" feeling.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

GhostTown said:


> I am a lot like you. A lot. This is why I enlisted help on the repair work. I'm no welder. I'm no body guy. I don't want to destroy my car.
> 
> 
> If I were you, I'd stop taking the car apart and start looking for someone who will help you with the body repair work. From that point, I would work to put the car back together, again enlisting someone with experience. When it's back together and the car runs, you can then start thinking about paint, upholstery, shiny chrome, etc. Unless you have 20 grand up front, it's just too hard to put these things together all at once. When the car is together and you actually have something solid to build on, something that is drivable and insurable, you can enjoy the car while you're fixing it up over time.


Oh, I totally get you on this point. My last car was ugly and totally rusted out in ways I could never get fixed....but it was complete and drivable. This car is 3/4 of a car, but fortunately in my pursuit of the last car, I did manage to get most of the missing parts prior to ever getting this car. So I do have a complete car (minus a front bumper and radiator). I had hoped to get this up and running the work on it as I go. But I feel at the very least, I need to address the 2-3 rust issues before I do anything else. 

I even talked with a buddy of mine today saying that I might spend the money on tools, equipment and "do it yourself books" and attempt as much of the rebuild myself as possible. Things like welding, bodywork, rust repair, and painting, I guess if I take my time, Do a lot of reading, and am prepared to redo it if I make a mistake, then maybe I can do it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

mrvandermey said:


> I even talked with a buddy of mine today saying that I might spend the money on tools, equipment and "do it yourself books" and attempt as much of the rebuild myself as possible. Things like welding, bodywork, rust repair, and painting, I guess if I take my time, Do a lot of reading, and am prepared to redo it if I make a mistake, then maybe I can do it.


I guarantee that you can do it. I did - until I dove into my 69 my experience with things like rust repair, body, and paint work was every bit as vast as you say yours it  In other words, zero.

Your most valuable tools will be a good healthy case of "stubborn" and a willingness to put in the time and effort. Access to good information and a "sprightly" bank account help too.....
On the information part, I highly recommend:
 Kevin's Paintucation videos
Paintucation Forum

Bear


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well I just ordered a couple more "do it yourself" books. Fortunately for me being a lawyer and spending 22 years in the military, I have mastered reading (I read fast and comprehend well) and I follow orders (or directions) well. So between the two skill sets, maybe I will come out ahead on this. I got the GTO restoration book, How To Build A Pontiac V8, and I am working on getting the Paintucation series too. 

I figure a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars for a few good tools, lots of beer and pizza, a lot of patience and a little luck, I just might be able to pull some of this off. Right now, I expect I will need professional help with fine tuning of the mechanical parts (i.e. engine, etc), installation of new top and the actual painting of the car. But I hope to accomplish the deconstruction, most of the body work (minus actual painting), interior, and much of the mechanical myself.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

The "actual painting", i.e. squrting stuff out of the spray gun, is actually the easiest part of the whole process. The painstaking parts of any paint job are all the preparation to get it ready to shoot, and then all the color-sanding, cutting, and buffing that come after that.

Bear


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> The "actual painting", i.e. squrting stuff out of the spray gun, is actually the easiest part of the whole process. The painstaking parts of any paint job are all the preparation to get it ready to shoot, and then all the color-sanding, cutting, and buffing that come after that.
> 
> Bear


I may be get brave enough to do as much of the prep work as possible myself, but the painting, color-sanding, cutting, and etc, that is the part I will most likely leave to the pros.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well I managed to start the wire brushing of the floor pans, to remove all the surface rust. Boy, that was a messy job, the dust cloud was enough to choke a horse. Although I have more work to do on the floors, I have stumbled upon two questions. First, when I removed the carpeting and sound deadening mat, it left fibers behind. Specifically, the matting was glued down so when the matting came out, there were tons of fibers left behind. What is the best way to remove those stuck on fibers? 

Also, we all know that any amount of rust scares the heck out of me. So after removing most of the surface rust, I discovered about a dozen pin holes in the floor boards. There are no gaping holes, or other rust issues. So should I be worried over these dozen pin holes? Can these holes be repaired by filling them by welding them or is there another way to fill the holes? Do a few pin holes mean I should consider replacing or patching the floors?


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Post pics. You may be in for at least a partial pan replacement. You will likely get a lot of varying opinions here.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Here are a few pics of the floor boards....specifically the driver side, where there are around 9-10 pin holes, while the passenger side has 1-2 pin holes. Yes, I know there is more work to still do on removing the surface rust. Which brings me to a question, once rust is gone and I get pin holes repaired (filled or patch panel), do I prime it or POR 15 it then prime it?


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

mrvandermey said:


> Here are a few pics of the floor boards....specifically the driver side, where there are around 9-10 pin holes, while the passenger side has 1-2 pin holes. Yes, I know there is more work to still do on removing the surface rust. Which brings me to a question, once rust is gone and I get pin hokes repaired (filled or patch panel), do I prime it or POR 15 it then prime it?


Remember, POR stands for Paint Over Rust and depends on the chemical reaction in order to bond and seal. Once rust is truly removed (via panel replacement) you no longer can create the necessary chemical reaction. There are other sealers which will work though. A good epoxy primer (such as Ditzler's DP90) will work well, then you can paint it if you want to, but it's not strictly necessary.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well I finished the sanding of the floors. Now I need to prime the floor. I should get that done tomorrow. Overall they do look good, but as previously mentioned there are a dozen or so pin holes. I am trying to get real good pics so my body shop can look at them. I am still optimistic that the floor holes can be filled. However, the trunk is not looking as good. I have about 75% of the trunk pan sanded and it looks like I am definitely going to need some kind d of patch. I do not know yet whether I need so e kind of filler patch or an actual section of the trunk floor. In either case, it was not what I was hoping for. I am beginning to cringe in regards to how much it will cost just to repair the minor rust on dash area and then patch the quarter paned along the wheel well lip and now to patch to trunk.


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Every area you mention is commonly rusted on these cars. You can buy patch panels from a variety of suppliers (Performance Years, AMES Performance, Year One, Sherman Associates, even Rock Auto and JC Whitney). I ordered all of my trunk repair panels from my local Auto Value store and I had them the next day, with no shipping charges.

Usually, if there are rust holes there is a significant area around the holes that is thin and weak. If you are planning to keep this car, I would recommend replacing sections of the floor pans, trunk floors and other panels instead of trying to weld up a lot of holes in thin areas.

Also, if the rusted areas are small, you can cut small patch panels and weld them in without having to replace large areas.

I don't know if you have a sandblaster near you, but you might want to get that car bead blasted to get down to clean metal. Rust is like an iceberg...what you see is typically about 10% of the total affected area.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

jmt455 said:


> Every area you mention is commonly rusted on these cars. You can buy patch panels from a variety of suppliers (Performance Years, AMES Performance, Year One, Sherman Associates, even Rock Auto and JC Whitney). I ordered all of my trunk repair panels from my local Auto Value store and I had them the next day, with no shipping charges.
> 
> Usually, if there are rust holes there is a significant area around the holes that is thin and weak. If you are planning to keep this car, I would recommend replacing sections of the floor pans, trunk floors and other panels instead of trying to weld up a lot of holes in thin areas.
> 
> ...


I totally understand. I finished sanding floor and trunk and now I got it primed. As you can see there are few pin holes in the foot area only on front driver side floor and a couple pin holes in foot area on front passenger side. The trunk is another issue. About 1/3-1/2 of trunk pan has significant holes with two big holes or thin spots. In pics the brown colored spots on trunk floors are holes. I am hoping floor is salvageable without actual patches, but have accepted trunk will need patching or replacing.

I fully plan on getting car blasted, primed and sealed, then have all rust spots repaired so I have a solid foundation to start build up. I am hoping to get whole car blasted soon, but this my slow season for my business, so I will have to see if the money is available.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I just picked up a really nice, damage free original hood. The hood I I got with the car was bowed, had dents & ripples in skin, cracks & breaks in frame and had a poor repair done on it.

I did manage to get a really nice drive shaft as well. So now I am just missing a radiator, a front bumper, a rear spoiler and a few minor pieces.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Question, if I utilize patch panels for trunk or floor, won't it be obvious that a patch has been done? It seems like it won't blend as naturally as it would with the full floor or trunk replacement (which I really do not want to do).


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Depends who does the patch and how well but yes, it will be more noticeable.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mrvandrmey, if your trunk is as sound as it looks, I wouldn't replace it. You might try filling the holes with metal-patch epoxy and refinishing the floor. I'd rather have a car with an original trunk pan that's sound but repaired over a car that has a new pan. JMHO, though...


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> Mrvandrmey, if your trunk is as sound as it looks, I wouldn't replace it. You might try filling the holes with metal-patch epoxy and refinishing the floor. I'd rather have a car with an original trunk pan that's sound but repaired over a car that has a new pan. JMHO, though...


The floors look overall sound, minus the very few pin holes. The trunk floor is relatively sound, but there are dozens of pin holes on the driver side and two areas (in pics they appear to be a brownish color) where it looks like it was hit with a shot gun spray. 

The only reason I was thinking entire trunk floor replacement is it seems to me that it would be easier to hide the welds with a trunk floor replacement compared to using just a patch panel (i.e. like the 1/3 section sold everywhere).


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*trunk rust*

Your trunk looks great compared to the way mine looked- I had just what you have, plus some large gaping holes. You'd never know it now, though. Fix what you have, and you'll be happy!


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> Mrvandrmey, if your trunk is as sound as it looks, I wouldn't replace it. You might try filling the holes with metal-patch epoxy and refinishing the floor. I'd rather have a car with an original trunk pan that's sound but repaired over a car that has a new pan. JMHO, though...


What is "metal-patch epoxy"? How does it fill the holes? Is this something I can do inmy garage or is this a body shop trick of the trade? If this is simply filling the holes with a metal-like substance, than I am truly interested in it. Definitely for the floors, since they are in real good shape and only have a few pin holes. I would love to see if this will work on the trunk with the two areas that look like they were shot with a shot gun.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey guys, the engine I have sitting in my garage that I plan to use as my "drive around" engine is painted the Pontiac blue but not the metallic blue. So can I paint over the current paint color or do I need to strip off old paint first?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

mrvandermey said:


> What is "metal-patch epoxy"? How does it fill the holes? Is this something I can do inmy garage or is this a body shop trick of the trade? If this is simply filling the holes with a metal-like substance, than I am truly interested in it. Definitely for the floors, since they are in real good shape and only have a few pin holes. I would love to see if this will work on the trunk with the two areas that look like they were shot with a shot gun.


There's a product called All Metal. Mix, apply and sands like bondo.
Might help to put some duck tape on the bottom side of the holes you want to fill, just to keep the All Metal from draining out through the holes before it sets.
They make a fiberglass adhesive mesh tape that you can use in conjuction with the Allmetal. Using the mesh tape will add strength and thickness to the repair.


Bill


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

mrvandermey said:


> Hey guys, the engine I have sitting in my garage that I plan to use as my "drive around" engine is painted the Pontiac blue but not the metallic blue. So can I paint over the current paint color or do I need to strip off old paint first?


Sure, as long as it's in good condition and not peeling. Make sure it's clean, hit it with a gray scotch-brite pad to roughen up the surface so the new paint will have some tooth to adhere to, clean it again with a good wax/grease remover (for paint work) and go for it.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes, use the All Metal, and sand and paint with spatter paint. Your trunk will look like new, and it will be the original, born- with piece. Much better than a new pan, IMO!...My '67's trunk is much worse, and needs a new pan, eventually. If I could avoid it, I would. The best bet is to keep as much of the original metal on the car as possible. Yours is in pretty good shape. Ditto on what Bear says about the engine paint, too. Very easy. Keep in mind that Pontiac painted these engines assembled, so no need to mask off all the bolt heads, gaskets, etc. Just paint that sucker!


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*trunk repair*

I totally agree with Geeteeoh guy and Bear about keeping as much original metal as possible.(I don't trust anything new as it's generally Chinese junk!) I redid our '66 trunk, and it is dazzling when you pop the lid. We have the trunkmats, but opted not to install them-looks too nice as is. G.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Is this "All Metal" stuff easy to work with? I mean, can a novice like me apply it (or even get it) or is this something my shop has to do?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

mrvandermey said:


> Is this "All Metal" stuff easy to work with? I mean, can a novice like me apply it (or even get it) or is this something my shop has to do?


Handles the same as bondo. A little bit harder to sand tho.
You can get it at any autobody supply store. Call a autobody shop in your area to find out where they buy their products.
You will have no problems doing it yourself.


Bill


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

So on this All Metal, would I drop the gas tank and apply this stuff to top and underneath side of trunk pan? What kind of fiberglass do I put in it? Is it like fiberglass tape or similar or just strands of fiberglass? Does fiberglass also go on top and underneath? Once applied and dried, I would then sand both top side and underneath side, then prime and.
splatter paint top and black paint underneath side?


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## No Goat (Dec 22, 2012)

I recently repaired the very same pinholes in my floor. As someone already mentioned, where there are pin holes the surrounding metal is thin. In my opinion using All Metal, JB Weld, Bondo or similar products isn't much better than using a piece of good furnace tape. It will do as good a job and last about as long. 
I chose to use fiberglass mat and resin, applied to a properly prepared surface it should last pretty much forever. It fills the holes and adds strength back to the thin areas at the same time, it's inexpensive, fairly easy to do even for a novice and since the carpet hides it perfection isn't an issue. I'll have the original Ziebart touched up this spring and my pinholes will only be a memory.

Disclaimer: I'm not a restoration expert, just some guy on the internet :^)


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

No Goat said:


> I recently repaired the very same pinholes in my floor. As someone already mentioned, where there are pin holes the surrounding metal is thin. In my opinion using All Metal, JB Weld, Bondo or similar products isn't much better than using a piece of good furnace tape. It will do as good a job and last about as long.
> I chose to use fiberglass mat and resin, applied to a properly prepared surface it should last pretty much forever. It fills the holes and adds strength back to the thin areas at the same time, it's inexpensive, fairly easy to do even for a novice and since the carpet hides it perfection isn't an issue. I'll have the original Ziebart touched up this spring and my pinholes will only be a memory.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm not a restoration expert, just some guy on the internet :^)


Good to know that there are options. I really do not want to replace the trunk floor or the floors. I am not even looking forward to installing patch panels to either the trunk or floor. It is bad enough that I need a patch panel on the driver quarter panel (and likely the the dash area under windshield).


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Uh-oh....I am in danger of loosing my resolve (and patience) on building my '68 GTO convertible project. For the last few months, whenever it looks like I might have a bit of extra money in the budget, either something of higher priority pops up or that extra money does not materialize. I was really hoping to have the project done by the end of this year. Now, between the lack of funds & patience, in combination with the amount of work that needs to be done, I am loosing my resolve to do the project at all. I am on the verge of just dumping it altogether. 

On another note, my brother just informed me that we are picking up a '66 GTO hardtop (a true barnyard find) the weekend of January 18. So maybe I will adopt that project and dump the '68 GTO convertible.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Projects seldom get completed on schedule, and even less frequently on budget. Just take your time and do it right, you'll get there.


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Come on man, I waited 28 years to get my car "finished". Still have some small stuff to do. Have some patients, maybe step back and take a break, but don't give up on her. She needs you.


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## GhostTown (Jan 25, 2011)

He tore it apart. That always kills a project when you haven't ever done one before.

Should have assembled it first, got it running, drove it around a bit, and then tackled one problem at a time.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Hang in there and separate it into smaller (cheaper) tasks until you get funds for the big ticket items, and no jumping around on stuff. Make a punch list, get all materials on hand for each project before you start. apply yourself to that item, and cross it off your list when your done with a bright highlighter. Sooner or later that list will be covered in highlighter and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. A lot of the work is thankless and most people won't even know what you did, but you will and believe me, when your done and it greets you every day in the garage screaming "drive Me" you will have the biggest sense of accomplishment.


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*discouragement*

Don't let it get your "Goat"! I was ready to throw in the towel and move to Australia recently, myself. I took a few days off and let things settle down in my mind. I didn't even glance at the car even when I had to go to the garage. When I finally got back to it, I found I had a refreshed attitude towards the project, and it hasn't left yet. (It's been a couple of months now). Don't give up the "Goat" has since been my motto. (Even though it's a Lemans!).


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## GhostTown (Jan 25, 2011)

Like I said earlier in this thread, I took my car that had sat for 28 years and had only the essential body work done to it to get it back into a driveable, insurable vehicle. It needs a TON things, but I'm chipping away at one problem at a time and having an absolute blast doing it. Fifty bucks for new shocks one week, ninety nine for springs a couple weeks later... now it handles better. Just keep going, and having fun with a working car in the meantime.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

GhostTown said:


> He tore it apart. That always kills a project when you haven't ever done one before.
> 
> Should have assembled it first, got it running, drove it around a bit, and then tackled one problem at a time.


Well in all fairness, the car was not actually a full complete car when I got her. The one I had originally, although it was a rolling piece of crap (between the rust issues, damaged frame, poor repair work and ill fitting body parts) it was complete; while this car came to me with no engine, no tranny, no driveshaft, no fenders, no front bumper, and no front valance, and then other parts that came with it were already dismantled (one inner fender, front seats, hood springs, etc). Fortunately for me, I already had all the missing pieces to put on the rolling piece of crap. 

The only part I disassembled would be the remaining front inner fender, and the full complete interior. I have managed to sand out the surface rust in floors and trunk, chip out a large part of the fender rust. I cleaned and primered floors and trunk, replaced a door, and cleaned up the front inner fenders and front area of frame. 

I would love to assemble her and drive her around and fix her as I go along, but she is a long ways away from being a drivable car. Although I have 99% of a complete car scattered all over my garage, I have to deal with the rust issues before anything. Ironically, it is the rust issues causing me the most concern. For any amount of rust scares me, and this car seems to have minimal amounts of rust, it is more than I can handle myself.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

gjones said:


> Don't let it get your "Goat"! I was ready to throw in the towel and move to Australia recently, myself. I took a few days off and let things settle down in my mind. I didn't even glance at the car even when I had to go to the garage. When I finally got back to it, I found I had a refreshed attitude towards the project, and it hasn't left yet. (It's been a couple of months now). Don't give up the "Goat" has since been my motto. (Even though it's a Lemans!).


Ironically I have done somehting similar. I packed up all the loose parts to the car and have packed them neatly in the trunk. I have my newly reupholsterd seats just sitting int he empty interior. I have closed up all the boxes that do have parts, and I put a cover over the car. So now when I go through my garage, all I see is a covered outline of a car and of course the engine sitting on the stand.

I most certainly am not willing to take 20+ years to build this car. I am getting too old for that. If I can not make significant progress on it in the next 1-2 years, then I will dump it, or hand it off to the next guy with big dreams and no money for a project.


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## mrbill (Jan 5, 2013)

Don't quit... just pause. I'm 3 years into my project. It'll get there...


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## GhostTown (Jan 25, 2011)

My Pontiac sat for 28 years before getting touched. My truck that sits beside it right now I have 12 grand in, I've had it for 6 years, it's just a rolling chassis.

Very few just snap their fingers and get it done.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

After stepping completely away from my car for a week or so, and then spending an hour with my body shop yesterday (by coincidence, there was an accident that resulted in local police blocking off street in front of my office so I hung out at my body shop), I decided that I am better off keeping my '68 GTO project. Yes, it is still very discouraging knowing that it is years away from being a driveable car, but in the end it will be worth it.

Now if all goes well, my brother and I should be picking up the '66 GTO this weekend. Of course, until it is hooked up behind my truck, I am not going to celebrate yet.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GhostTown said:


> My Pontiac sat for 28 years before getting touched. My truck that sits beside it right now I have 12 grand in, I've had it for 6 years, it's just a rolling chassis..


My 66 is the same way, 4 years now down to bare skull. Bought it as a driver, had a leak, took it apart. Very frustrating. Had rust on the inner rockers, so had to do the entire bottom pan and body mounts. Sat in my garage for last year. Well, work got slow, got the bottom done, new mounts and put a door and fender on last night!! It's 1 piece at a time, I didn't plan on a frame off, but it happened, too much money in it to dump. I'm excited again, going to body shop in a couple weeks!:cheers


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

jetstang said:


> My 66 is the same way, 4 years now down to bare skull. Bought it as a driver, had a leak, took it apart. Very frustrating. Had rust on the inner rockers, so had to do the entire bottom pan and body mounts. Sat in my garage for last year. Well, work got slow, got the bottom done, new mounts and put a door and fender on last night!! It's 1 piece at a time, I didn't plan on a frame off, but it happened, too much money in it to dump. I'm excited again, going to body shop in a couple weeks!:cheers


In reality, I am sure this is why they are called "projects" for they take time and money. Obviously few of us are able to simple whip out the check book and buy one already done, for if we all could, there would be little to no market for the project cars.

On the good side, I am not that much into my project in regards to money. I aqcquired the car through a series of trades where no money changed hands except for first car and that first car cost me $4,900. Since getting this car (and the last GTO clone), I have spent an additonal $3,000 (I actually spent significantly more, but sold off other parts to recoupe som money spent) in parts. Unfortunately, business has been slow for me over the last few months so extra money seems to be a rare commodity. 

My big mile stone is getting it blasted, primed, sealed and all rust repaired. Once I get to that point, I will feel as if the car has truly progressed in right direction. Plus all the deconstruction will be done and I will have a solid platform to actually start the build up.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey guys in body work language, what is "kitty hair" and how is it used? My understanding (based on how it was used in context) is that kitty hair is strands of fiberglass used in conjunction with body filler (either All Metal or Bondo). If I am understanding the concept you mix the kitty hair with body filler to make a stronger bond. Is that correct? Does it add strength to the metal or body part or just make the body filler stronger?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

you are correct, it adds fiber to give you a cross bond for areas that need a thicker filler. AllMetal and bondo should not be used to cover anything thicker than 1/4", if this is the case you should use Hammer and dolly to bump the metal out to use the thinnest layer of filler possible. Fact is to get these old cars straight and wave free with the long flat panels you will pretty much have to skim coat the whole car with a thin layer of filler and sand down to flat and smooth, this is where most of the hours are spent prepping for paint.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Instg8ter said:


> you are correct, it adds fiber to give you a cross bond for areas that need a thicker filler. AllMetal and bondo should not be used to cover anything thicker than 1/4", if this is the case you should use Hammer and dolly to bump the metal out to use the thinnest layer of filler possible. Fact is to get these old cars straight and wave free with the long flat panels you will pretty much have to skim coat the whole car with a thin layer of filler and sand down to flat and smooth, this is where most of the hours are spent prepping for paint.


I am specifically looking to use "kitty hair" with All Metal for the pin holes in my floors and hopefully in two rust holes in trunk (holes in trunk are the size of a silver dollar coin or smaller).

On the quarter, I plan on patching with good metal (along with filler for weld area).


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Will work for the trunk and floors good, splatter paint hides alot. used all metal on my trunk for the same reasons 4-5 pinholes and one around 1/2", ended up skim coating the whole thing so it was all smooth. Those groves in the trunk pans are a bitch to sand too.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey guys, I picked up a one-piece trunk pan for $200. I am not yet sure whether I can get by with filler + kitty hair on my trunk pan or if I need a metal patch. Well in the event I need a metal patch, I am told to have more metal than what I will actually need (Heck it may be I should just replace entire trunk pan). My question is whether the thickness of a typical one-piece trunk floor pan (or a 1/3 patch piece) is the same thickness as the original trunk pan?


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey everyone. Yes, my build of my GTO convertible is moving forward, just a whole lot slower than I had exepected. Apparently this winter, both money and time are in short supply. I did manage to pick up one of the two last remaining body parts.....the front endura bumper. Although I paid a bit more for it than I had originally planned, this one is an original bumper and not a reproduction (it is a 1969 instead of 1968), is very straight and has already been prepped for painting (sanded, repaired, primed, etc). 

Now the only remaining body part(s) I need is the convertible rear spoiler. Oh yeah, I may need a patch panel for where the windshield meets the dash, and possibly a floor pan patch (or two). 

I have also managed to pick up most of the mechanicals. Although it is a 1972 engine, I do have the engine ('72 Pontiac 400), tranny (TH400), shifter (Hurst dualgate his/hers), and the driveshaft (still need radiator, wiring harnes, and most of suspension). As for interior, I got new seats (with '69 upholstery), center console and the rally gauges (still need door panels, rear panels, carpeting, dash pad, and trim pieces). So, I have made progress on parts, now I need to get the labor done....specifically the media blasting, priming, sealing and rust repair. I still want to get body off car to clean and powder coat frame and then replace body bushings. I am hoping that I (with help of family/friends) can get body off frame myself and not need a body shop for that part.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey everyone, I got a little ambitious this week so I decided to do a little sanding to investigate the extent of rust in the known rust areas. I already knew there are two rust holes in trunk floor, which may require an actual patch. I did pick up a one piece trunk floor just in case. Turns out I also just picked up a full quarter panel which includes more than just the quarter, for it has a bit of the trunk and floor as well. Just enough trunk to use as a patch. So now if I need a patch I have part of an original floor to use a patch.

Now, I knew I had some rust in the fender well of the driver rear quarter, so I sanded the fender down to bare metal. It appears it has been repaired before (although done poorly) and the then repair rusted. Good news is after removing paint down to bare metal, it appears the rust is limited to the first 2 inches of the fender well. Yes, the entire fender well will need to be cut out and replaced. There is one sizeable rust hole that did bleed onto the inner fender well as well. Fortunately the quarter panel I pick up is complete including the inner fender well. I have not yet dived into the passenger quarter panel and I have no evidence of rust there, but I am expecting it to be in similar condition as the driver side. Here are a few pics of the rust area (along with Bondo).

The bad news is that there is significantly more Bondo than I had expected. Where th rust appears to be limited to first two inches, the Bondo appears to extend the next 5-6 (or more) inches. 

I knew of a rust bubble or two on the lower part of the driver's door and was worried the rust went all the way through door. So I went ahead and sanded that area to bare metal as well and it turns out there are only 2-3 pin holes in that area. The rest of the door looks great. I did find a rust bubble on my lower front fender too, and it turned out to be 1-2 pin holes as well.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Yay....my newly restored endura bumper came in today. Wow, is that a work of art. It looked good in the pics but looks amazing in real life. Now the only body part left on my "to-do" list is the rear spoiler and a few trim pieces.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Post pics! Glad your making some progress on the body! Keep us posted.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Here is a pic of the new endura bumper. Sorry for not posting earlier, for some reason I am unable to post pics when I access this site with my phone (my computer is down). I am no expert, but this is truly a nice piece. I am thinking that even though I paid $650 for the restored bumper that that is a cheaper price than buying one for $300-$400 and then having to pay to restore it. I do not know how much time and work goes into restoring one of these bumpers, but at $75/hour (my body shop rates) I am betting it is more than $300 in work.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looks good from here! I'd store it flat on its back, the sides are thin and old. It could cause deformation or cracking.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Looks good from here! I'd store it flat on its back, the sides are thin and old. It could cause deformation or cracking.


Good point, thanks for the tip


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi everyone, I know, it has been a few months since I have last posted. Well as usual, finances, family, work and life has kept me busy and away from my project. 

I have managed to acquire virtually every part I need to complete my '68 GTO convertible project (minus a radiator, a couple interior pieces, and a few miscellaneous pieces) and I am ramping up to start the build. I, of course, still have a major project to do, and that is the media blasting, priming, sealing and then the minor rust repair. Then I will be ready to build it.

I just acquired a 1969 GTO coupe parts car for those few missing pieces I needed (12-bolt posi rear end, disc brakes, patch panels, etc). Now I am looking to start that tear down, so count on I will be asking questions along the way. Hopefully I will get the blasting/priming/sealing done soon.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Welcome back, the body work is the most important step so take your time. :beer:


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys, I got some work done on the '68 GTO. I got the12-bolt posi rear end out of parts car and am in process of cleaning it up. I plan on getting the 10-bolt non-posi rear end out of my car this weekend. 

Since I have yet to wrestle up the fund to get my car blast, I decided to start sanding the car. I started off sanding the common places for rust (both rear fender well lips, lower rear quarters, rockers, and lower front fenders), then me and my girlfriend (she loves power tools) got motivated and we sanded the driver's rear quarter panel completely, removing all paint, body filler, rust, and getting it to bare metal. I went ahead and primed it just to protect it. 

I did discover that all the common rust areas looked good. Here is what I discovered so far:
1) Entire fender well lip on driver's rear quarter (I already knew that).
2) A couple small rust holes in driver's side lower quarter panel. 
3) One small rust hole in passenger quarter panel fender well lip.
4) A quarter sized rust hole and a couple pin holes in passenger lower quarter panel.
5) One or two pin holes in lower driver's door.
6) one or two pin holes in lower driver's front fender. 

If time permits this weekend, I hope to get driver's door and front fender sanded and primed. 

I do have a question. I used a power wire wheel to sand off paint, body filler, and rust, and for the most part it is pretty smooth. However, I noticed after priming, the surface looks like there are traces of old paint left on and not really smooth. Did I not get off all of old paint/body filler or is this something else? Do I need to go over it again with a sander or such?


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

It's very possible there is some paint left on it. The original paint binds very well as it was put on virgin sheet metal. The wire wheel sometimes burnishes the paint/primer so that it looks like you're down to metal, but you're not.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

chuckha62 said:


> It's very possible there is some paint left on it. The original paint binds very well as it was put on virgin sheet metal. The wire wheel sometimes burnishes the paint/primer so that it looks like you're down to metal, but you're not.


That makes sense. So it looks like I am going to have to resand that quarter panel. What is the best tool to use? I have an orbital sander, but I am a little intimidated to use it for I do not know anything about sanding...such as what grit to use, how much pressure, etc. Sanding in general scares me due to how many times you need to sand something to get it right. Plus if you sand too much you have ruined the project and if you sand too little (like I may have here), you have to resand the entire area again (and again).

On another note, as mentioned previously, the rust so far appears to be limited to the driver's quarter panel wheel well lip (and a few minor spots elsewhere). But I did discover some noticeable dents or warped metal on passenger side quarter panel. The body filler was thick there. To properly repair the dents or warping, am I going to need to cut that metal out and replace it like I will need to do for the rust issues? Or can a competent body shop repair that without cutting it to replace?


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys. Well since I can not yet afford to get my car media blasted, I decided to start sanding the car in my spare time. I have now got a little more than half the car sanded and primed. I started with the common rust areas, then moved to the driver rear quarter and now I just finished the driver door, driver front fender, hood, and trunk. As mentioned previously, the rust is not as bad as I feared. The big rust issue is of course the driver's rear quarter fender well lip...the whole fender well lip needs replacing. Other than that, I found 7 spots that have a couple rust pinholes and just need a small patch in those couple spots. 

Now I did discover that under the paint of my front fender, like the passenger quarter panel, there were several ripples in the metal.....of course those ripples were covered up by body filler and paint. Now I am wondering if I should attempt to replace fender or leave it to my shop to make it pretty when I get the bodywork and paint done.

Here are some pics of the work, plus some close up of problem areas.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

I know I have not done much on my car, and have miles to go, but sanding half the car down and getting most of it one color, does make me feel like I finally have made some progress on the car. I managed to get the passenger door sanded and primed today. I have the passenger front fender and rear quarter panel plus the trunk surround (top of rear quarters and filler panel) yet to do, but that will happen next week or so.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Nice work, makes a big difference getting it all in one color!


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Nice work, makes a big difference getting it all in one color!


Now to just get the body work done...or at least finish sanding it, then get the few rust issues taken care of, then I can start putting her all back together.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

mrvandermey said:


> Now to just get the body work done...or at least finish sanding it, then get the few rust issues taken care of, then I can start putting her all back together.



Boy, that makes it sound so easy ;-)


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Boy, that makes it sound so easy ;-)


I know, right? especially since I have zero skills, experience or talent to do any body work. Yeah, I can sand (and even then I get intimidated) and I can follow directions pretty well, but I am scared to cut body panels in order to cut out rust. Plus the last time I did any welding was in high school in metal shop...and I did not do too well there. 

So yeah, the body work is so easy, if I have a blank check and let my body shop do all the work.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Okay, I think I officially do not care for sanding. As you all know, I have sanded most of the car down, with just a front fender, one quarter panel and trunk surround left to do. Well I started sanding the quarter panel and discovered I was sanding the car all wrong to begin with. So I went and looked at all the panels I did sand (and prime) and see I got better results with each successive panel I did. I discovered that the wire wheel, although effective especially with any rust and body filler, did not get it all off. As mentioned by someone, it tarnished the paint residue to make it look like bare metal. I can see that the primed surface is not quite so smooth. 

Well finally, half way through the second quarter panel, I successfully utilized the wire wheel to strip paint and filler and then went over it with an orbital sander and the difference was incredible. This part of the car is indeed "down to bare metal" and is actually rather smooth. So it looks like I will be re-sanding entire car again.

On some of the car building shows they show the guys using a sander and making fast work of it. On that note, what grit should I be using on car. I have used (or will use) a wire wheel to remove all paint, filler and rust, then will sand remaining paint/filler residue with sander. When I do this sanding, the metal comes out super smooth and the process is a bit slow. Is there a stronger grit I should use first for quick removal of residue and then go over again to smooth metal? Any tips here would be very helpful.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

80 -120 should work on the Orbital, then hit the areas you sand with rust inhibitor immediately after you clean it. Do not worry about the deep scratches just yet, the high build primer will help fill them in once you get the whole car ready for a base coat of Epoxy. The Epoxy will also act as the base for any fillers, you don't want to apply them over bare metal.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

If you're wanting rapid material removal, you could even go with 60 grit. Be careful on and near sharp edges and body lines not to sand though or alter the lines. Of course the more aggressive the grit, the rougher it's going to leave the finish so you'll have to follow up with progressively finer grits to remove the scratches left by the coarser grits. It's not an exact science. This is one of the areas where experience is valuable -- being able to "read" the surface and the situation, then picking a grit that is "Goldilocks" for what you want to do.

Bear


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

As mentioned, in think in will finish removing paint/filler with the wire wheel and then go over it with the 80 grit on the orbital sander. Then if need be go over it all with 120 grit. I did remember to not touch the metal with bare hands, I cleaned it and put a coat of rust inhibitor primer (which I have to go over again to really smooth it out)


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Get it down to metal with whatever grit works for you......40,60,80 whatever
Don't worry about leaving grinding marks in the bare metal , you can address those later with a filler, after the epoxy is applied
Most important thing is getting epoxy primer on the bare metal as soon as it is exposed to air......do 1 panel at a time

Bill


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

bondobill said:


> Get it down to metal with whatever grit works for you......40,60,80 whatever
> Don't worry about leaving grinding marks in the bare metal , you can address those later with a filler, after the epoxy is applied
> Most important thing is getting epoxy primer on the bare metal as soon as it is exposed to air......do 1 panel at a time
> 
> Bill



Thanks, so far that is exactly what I have been doing....one panel at a time. So far I stripped paint/filler, sanded panel, cleaned panel then immediately primed with rust inhibitor. In fact, on second quarter panel, I simply ran out if time to finish it in one attempt so I cleaned it up and primed it to protect the work done so far.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

mrvandermey said:


> Thanks, so far that is exactly what I have been doing....one panel at a time. So far I stripped paint/filler, sanded panel, cleaned panel then immediately primed with rust inhibitor. In fact, on second quarter panel, I simply ran out if time to finish it in one attempt so I cleaned it up and primed it to protect the work done so far.


Perfect!!

A little at a time :cheers


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys. Well I now have a Chevy 12-bolt posi rear end with 3.31 gears and drum brakes(I found a guy selling one locally) and a stock disc brake set up for the front end. I managed to pick up a set of Hotchkis springs for front and rear as well. 

I have not installed these parts yet simply due to a thought that came to me. It is likely I will need to separate the body and frame anyways (body bushings need replacing and frame needs cleaning up/painting), so I am thinking this might be a good time to consider separating frame from body. Any tips or advice? 

1) Besides the body bushing bolts, what else do I need to disconnect in order to separate the frame and body (car currently has no engine, tranny, driveshaft, rear end, rear suspension, or front suspension; but does have the steering shaft, steering box, steering components/tie rods, brake lines, fuel lines, fuel tank, and wiring harness)?

2) Does removing the body bushing bolts require two people or can 1 person successfully remove the bolts?

3) What is the best way to clean or prep frame? I am assuming a wire brush or wire wheel would do nicely. 

4) Lastly, what all needs to come off frame in order to paint or powder coat the frame (I am assuming all of the steering components, fuel lines, brake lines, and fuel tank)?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

To powder coat it correctly the frame needs to be stripped bare of parts, dirt, paint and grease.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

If you really want to have it powder coated, the powder coater will sandblast the frame to prep it. When I did the C-10, it was all inclusive. He did the stripping and powder coated the frame, cross member and all my suspension pieces for $1400. 

You do have to have EVERYTHING apart first, though!

Chuck


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

chuckha62 said:


> If you really want to have it powder coated, the powder coater will sandblast the frame to prep it. When I did the C-10, it was all inclusive. He did the stripping and powder coated the frame, cross member and all my suspension pieces for $1400.
> 
> You do have to have EVERYTHING apart first, though!
> 
> Chuck


Not everything yet. Right now the engine, tranny, driveshaft, entire front suspension, entire rear suspension is off. But still have brake lines, fuel lines, fuel tank and body still attached. 

The local powder coater here will blast and powder coat it too.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey guys, I finished sanding down the car this weekend. I discovered a good size area that had more Bondo than I would have liked, and now I know why. The good news is the rust is still minimal, but the bad news is I found body damage that was poorly repaired. Here is a pic of what I found. This area is the passenger quarter panel between the fenderwell and the door jam. Is this damage beyond repair? Is the best way to fix this is to cut out damaged area and replace the metal with a patch? If so, do I need to replace the quarter panel or will a good size patch do?


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys. I have to admit, there is definitely something to the idea of just buying a turn key car....assuming we had the means to do so all at one time. 

However, since I am as much budget restrained as most of us are, I have to acquire a project car and build it the way I want it as I go. I spent a little time this weekend (and the past few weekends too) working on the car. I often feel like I am not making any progress on the build up, but after looing back on a few pics, I can see that although my build up is moving at a snail pace, it is moving forward. 

Here are a few pics of the transformation.
1) What car looked like when I picked her up.
2) What car looked like sitting in my garage, after utilizing some spare parts that I had.
3) What car looks like today. 

Additionally, I have managed to acquire almost every major part needed (minus a few detail parts); and have been able to discover what the true condition of the car is in (have found virtually all of rust issues, body damage issues, and have a good idea what parts are still needed).


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:cheers...Been there done that, you should be proud, it started as just a shell and is well on its way to being roadworthy. The best thing i found to keep motivated was divide things up into smaller projects that fit your budget at that moment and complete them. The body and paint if you choose to take it on is a major task within itself but will save you the most money to put elsewhere (5-10k). Painting is really the easy part, getting the repairs built up and smooth is the painstaking part and will ultimately define how well your paint comes out. Remember when someone quotes you 8-15000 for body and paint you are paying them to care and take their time on your car as if it were their own. i stopped counting after a few hundred man hours on the body and mine started out as a rust free, major dent free original body car. One thing i will tell you is when your done that car will hold a very special place in your garage and your heart. You resurrected it, and every time you open the garage and see it there it will put a 16 year old's smile on your face and that's priceless.

I think i would try and source a panel to cut a patch from for that quarter there are some very organic body lines in that area where it flares out from the door to the wheel wells. As you probably found out grinding it down the filler will be a little thick unless you hammer it all out closer to smooth. I am starting work on a fox body mustang and that square angular shape is a piece of cake compared to the 7' flat slightly curved cokebottle shaped quarters of the Tempest/GTO.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Instg8ter said:


> :cheers.
> 
> I think i would try and source a panel to cut a patch from for that quarter there are some very organic body lines in that area where it flares out from the door to the wheel wells. As you probably found out grinding it down the filler will be a little thick unless you hammer it all out closer to smooth. I am starting work on a fox body mustang and that square angular shape is a piece of cake compared to the 7' flat slightly curved cokebottle shaped quarters of the Tempest/GTO.


I have a usuable quarter panel skin (from a coupe) that I can cut out a section to replace the damaged section on my car. Will I loose any of the curvature of the panel if I cut just a patch panel from the skin I have?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Considering what you started with, you've come a long way with this car (baby).

You are to be commended for your work! :cheers

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

You might want to check with some of the more experienced welders here as to where you should cut it to retain the rigidity and curvature. I would think to cut it pretty much how your picture is cropped across the top style line ridge straight down leaving the vertical section of wheel well to where it starts to flare out, then across the ridge of the lower style line and drill out the spot welds where it flanges into the door jamb.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Considering what you started with, you've come a long way with this car (baby).
> 
> You are to be commended for your work! :cheers
> 
> Bear


Thank you for the compliment. Especially since I truly do not know what I am doing.....it is a heck of a learning curve and learning experience.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys. Yes it has been a bit of time since I have done much on the GTO. As mentioned, it is completely sanded and primed. I think I now have almost all the major parts. I got lucky a couple weeks ago, I found a guy selling a nice endura bumper with non-hide-away headlights and grill for $250. When I got there, I offered him $200, he accepted. Then I noticed he had other parts....an aluminum radiator, new door handles, new chrome mirrors, new windshield trim, new cowl screen, new set of rear shocks, a fan shroud, new door sill trim and a few misc pieces. He offered all that for another $250...I told him I only had an additional $52 on me, he said "deal". So I was able to score a cache of parts for a deal of a price.

I just traded the endura bumper (since I already have one) for a set of '69 RAM AIR III #48 heads. Not sure if the heads are the way to go, but still looking comparing these RAIII heads with my current 7K3 heads. 

I am just now starting to clean up frame (as soon as I figure out how to take off brake lines and fuel lines), and I am starting my engine rebuild as well (very early stages for that). 

To add to my normal delays of lack of time and money, I also just picked up a '67 Mustang coupe, which is sucking up valuable real estate in my already crowded garage. So let the fun begin.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys, I know, long time no hear on the build. However, I have managed to make some small progress. I did pick up the door supports braces so I am about ready to brace the body in order to separate body and frame. My plan of attack is to get the chassis done first. Since I have stripped about 90% of the items attached to frame and I need new body bushings anyways, I am planning on removing frame, then cleaning it up and powder coating it. Then reinstall front and rear suspension, steering, engine, tranny, and wheels/tires before I mate the body back to frame.

I just picked up my brand new front suspension, consisting of new tubular upper and lower A-Arms, Hotchkis lowering springs, and new bushings. Although, I have not yet decided on shocks. Currently, I am expecting to use the stock disc brakes, but am playing with the idea of just simply upgrading them while I am at it. 

I am picking up my 12-bolt posi rear end w/3.55 gears today. However, the rear end does not have brakes on it right now, which is another reason I may just opt to upgrade the brakes on all four corners. Hopefully, later today or tomorrow, I will be ordering my rear suspension parts. 

Well, I will let you know how things go.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Mr. Vandermey,

You have made some great progress. I like lawyers who get their hands dirty on their um our projects. My GTO has sat in my garage for 14 years now, bought her the day I was admitted to the bar. I have obtained parts, restored the chassis, learned to weld, and now all I have left is to add the subpanel to my garage to plug in the welder and compressor.

You may want to check out Craig Hopkins Productions videos in addition to the Paintucation videos. Both are great and taught me a lot. Keep up the good work, it is a marathon never a sprint.

(ok I practiced on my Monte ss) which did distract me, but hey, I need something to drive....

best,

Anthony


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Mr. Vandermey,
> 
> You have made some great progress. I like lawyers who get their hands dirty on their um our projects. My GTO has sat in my garage for 14 years now, bought her the day I was admitted to the bar. I have obtained parts, restored the chassis, learned to weld, and now all I have left is to add the subpanel to my garage to plug in the welder and compressor.
> 
> ...


Thank for the motivation, always a fan of meeting fellow lawyer car guys, especially one with GTO's. I am most certainly learning as I go. I went ahead and ordered the rear suspension parts and picked up my rear end today.

Once I get the chassis done (or near done), I will start working on rebuilding the engine, then on to the nasty body work. I am in the process of buying a welder myself and learning the basics. I figure between me and my brother (who claims to know how to weld), we can patch the trunk floor, make any necessary patches to the actual floor and might be able to patch the pin holes on door and fender. Yes, I am going to whimp out and let the professionals do the quarter panels. 

Fortunately, I know how to follow directions well (damn, the Army loved me for that). I am a fast learner and I ask a ton of questions (heck just check out my posts). I am eager to learn how to weld, or at least learn the basics. I figure that is a skill that can only help me out.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

My simple advice would be to do the body work first....this way you do not have a fresh engine sitting around collecting dust and rust on the insides (hey I live in the Northeast with salt and humidity abound) This is my plan, my interior is all restored minus carpet headliner and knickknacks ie handles switches etc., all are inside my house upstairs; I am starting metal work, and soon as the car gets into primer, I get my goodies rechromed, and then i'll rebuild the motor right before the paint booth.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> My simple advice would be to do the body work first....this way you do not have a fresh engine sitting around collecting dust and rust on the insides (hey I live in the Northeast with salt and humidity abound) This is my plan, my interior is all restored minus carpet headliner and knickknacks ie handles switches etc., all are inside my house upstairs; I am starting metal work, and soon as the car gets into primer, I get my goodies rechromed, and then i'll rebuild the motor right before the paint booth.


I here you. However, I am so eager to drive my car. I figure if I get the mechanics done, I can drive it, even if she is not looking so pretty at the moment. Plus I figure putting it all together to drive then taking apart to finish paint/body, and then putting it all back together again will truly help me with the learning curve and teach me a ton. Plus I am in California, so weather is not as much of a concern (or at least I hope).


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

That is exactly what I did with my 84 Monte SS. I did a little at a time while she was on the road. Just when I got her where I was happy with her, 383 5 speed, the NY rust destroyed her body lol. Now that drive train is in a Maryland Monte so I have something to drive as I turn all of my resources to finishing my GTO. I think your plan is solid then to keep your passion alive and interested.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi guys, long time no hear. I know it has been awhile since I have been here as well as worked on my project GTO convertible. 

Yes, this year, the project has been a victim of lack of time and money. First, I have been traveling for my job, then add to that a ton of family issues, and finally, lack of extra money (as usual) has been a constant issue, all causing the project to get pushed back to the back burner in life. 

Finally, I have to admit, I have been discouraged with the entire project for some time and have seriously considered just dumping it, as many do at this point. I think the only reason I have not sold it yet is since it is in a million pieces, it is difficult to find a buyer and I lack the time and patience to part it out piece by piece. 

Anyways, very little progress has been completed since we last met. I have finished the rear end project, complete with disc brakes, new suspension parts, and even a fancy polished aluminum diff cover. I was able to remove the radiator support, sand it down, make a necessary repair to one of the bushing mount holes, and paint it. I also removed and restored the battery tray. I removed all of the remaining miscellaneous parts (except steering box) off the front of the frame. I then removed the doors, trunk lid, rear bumper, gas tank and all interior, then installed the door braces in order to prepare to separate the body and frame. I also managed to remove most of the body bushing bolts. I have removed the 4 bolts from rear of frame/body and the 4 bolts in the center of frame/body. I discovered that of the 4 very front bolts, the 2 inners bushings do not have bolts. I also discovered that the 2 bushings over the rear wheels are covered by rubber plugs. So, I am a little stuck on the 2 front outer bolts (the nuts keep turning with bolts and my access is limited) and the 2 bolts over the rear wheels (for I have not yet figured out how to remove those pesky rubber plugs). I also still need to remove the front section of the hand brake cable, for it is causing me grief as well. I did build a frame to put body on, once I get the frame and body separated. I have plans on cleaning, sanding then painting frame, so I can build the chassis and replace the bushings . 

So this is the update to my project. I am truly hoping I can make some progress soon before total despair sets in and I do find a way to sell it off.


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## bkmont (Jan 1, 2015)

Just keep pecking away at it. Remember, it's a project that's going to take sometime. If you need to take a break for awhile, do it until you get the desire to start backup on it.
Bryan


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hello everyone, I just thought I would stop by with the latest update on the GTO project. Well, I can say after nearly 3 years, I am finished with the project. More specifically, I am simply done with it. I decided that I am not the right person for a frame off restoration. I simply lack the skills, the tools, the money and the patience to do such project. So I offered the entire project for sale, and although I had many inquiries, no one showed up to buy as a single unit. So I parted the beast out and have managed in a very short time to sell off the majority of the car. Sad to see her go, but delighted knowing I have helped others get their projects back on the road (or at least further along towards that goal). 

So, this is likely my last (or close to being last) post here. I grant, there is a possibility I may pick up a '70 Pontiac LeMans Sport that is for sale locally (still working the deal). Although not a GTO or a convertible, it is done and overall fun to drive. Otherwise, if deal falls through, I may just have to play with my Mustang.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

GhostTown said:


> He tore it apart. That always kills a project when you haven't ever done one before.
> 
> Should have assembled it first, got it running, drove it around a bit, and then tackled one problem at a time.


*Nailed it! * :thumbsup:

Don't worry Mr. V, you aren't the only one to ever get in over their heads on a resto. The dedication and perseverance required to do a full on restoration by an amateur (and I'm one, still! and I've finished a frame off) is massive. They are way easier to take apart than to put together. Hopefully the "shell" you parted with will become a runner one day, hopefully it doesn't go to the crusher....we've lost enough original cars already. :banghead:

Best bet is to buy a "finished" project or to buy a complete running car and do it a little at a time. That's what I thought I was getting into...a runner that needed a paint job and some cleaning, what I got was a clap trap on it's last legs needing everything. This entire thread should be read by all newbs. Don't underestimate a project or overestimate your skills. :nopity:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Sad that yet another GTO had to die the death of disassembly. 

Bear


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, the fact that the project was mechanically challenging was a small part of my decision to let it go. It was more the pressure from the wife to part with it, the lack of money to spend on it, the lack of time to actually get any work done on it and the lack of my own patience, for I want to drive a car right now and not wait another 3 years or so. Apparently my wife is not okay with me spending my free time working on such a project. She also wanted the garage space to park her hot rod ('67 Mustang coupe). The lack of money and time are directly related to the wife. The overwhelming mechanical issues were a challenge, but a challenge I was okay with. 

I did pick up a fully restored '68 Ford Fairlane 500 to fulfill my need of a done care to drive. I grant, it is not a GTO, nor even a convertible, but it is "done" and an attention grabber nonetheless (I even got a funny compliment on it, when a guy saw it in my driveway he said "wow, that is a gorgeous car....what is it?"). I am now looking at a '70 LeMans/GTO clone this weekend, which is also essentially "done" (other than having the wrong seats in it, the wrong hood on it and downright ugly wheels). Again, not a convertible, nor a real GTO, but I still love the '68-'70 GM A-bodies, specifically the GTO/LeMans and the Chevelle.

Oh yeah, yes, all of the parts, even the shell, went towards someone putting their project back on the road. The shell and frame sold to the same person, and he is planning on putting it back on the road (he has built numerous cars before).


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