# Leave it to Engineers



## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

Leave it to engineers to over-engineer things. I am posting pix of the stock and B&M aftermarket shifters. As you will see, the stock shifter set up has many extra peices, and I don't understand why you would want to set things up with all the extra parts. Why is there a second shaft?
Anyways, I have had the short throw in for a couple of weeks now, and I like it much better than the stock set-up. Apart from the shorter movements in the shift pattern, (which is cool,) the shifting is much more precise and positive. Quick shifting between gears during hard acceleration is much more fun and easy. I am looking forward to getting the custom peice from my friend so that I can put my t-handle back in. arty: 
For those of you who have complaints about the feel and function of the stock shifter, I would highly recommend a mod to the stock set up. If you don't have any complaints about the stock system, you probably don't need to change anything, because you don't drive like some of the rest of us.  No offense intended. I like to drive my car hard, although my wife doesn't care for it very much if she is with me. 
Enjoy the pix and info.,

Maximental


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## Xman (Oct 31, 2004)

So far they both look dead even. I count 0 to 0.


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

Xman said:


> So far they both look dead even. I count 0 to 0.



Huh?
My pix are still pending approval.

Maximental


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

*Pix approved*

My pix are available to see what I was talking about before. Why are there all those extra peices in the stock shifter assembly?

Maximental


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

FYI, everybody, the pix are in the photo gallery. I'd say the factory unit shows symptoms of an evolutionary design. It may have been used on other cars with the Tremec -- with a very clean design -- then rejiggered a little for different cars that came out later, then futzed with again for the GTO instead of spending the money to completely design a whole new one from scratch.


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

I'll take a swag.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that the A/M shifter lever is now further away from the driver, engineers are always concerned with ergonomics. Making a direct-action stock one with better ergonomics would possibly bring up the issue of much higher stresses in the lever components. Ergonomics is a personal issue as well - some people have longer arms in proportion to their legs vs. others. An OE manufacturer has to consider the whole population though. That is possibly the first reason.

Possible reason number two - The A/M shifter's main advantage is also related to its main fault. The OE part allows for filtration of noise and vibration coming from the trans (there are additional areas available for isolation). Could have the stock shifter been made more precise while not becoming a buzzing, harsh implement? Proabably, but then cost becomes your next issue, and believe me, as one within the industry I can tell you that this is not an insignificant factor. Why do you think GM just announced the 20% white-collar force layoffs? The rebuttal to that reasoning could of course be that the incorrect choices and skimping in key areas could be a reason for the layoffs as well. ???

Bottom line, it depends on the user if the trade-off made is the best one. Most of us here definitely lean in the direction of a more precise shifter, and would rather live with the extra vibration and noise. I personally would prefer a different compromise with a few extra cents spent; I think that would be proper for a car of the GTO's caliber. There are people out there, however, that possibly wouldn't make the same choice . . .


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

quick question does this shifter work on the 05, im 99% sure it does but still want to know?


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## Subdriver (Dec 28, 2004)

Can't help with the reason behind the design, but can help with the pics:


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

*Thanks*

Thanks for the info, and help w/the pix.
I have had my T-handle back and on the new shifter for about a week. This is working very well for me. Once again, if you're not happy with your stock shifter, I would recommend replacing it. 


Maximental


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

So, how would you compare the noise and vibration coming through the new shifter to that of the stock one, is it noticeably worse?


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

*B&M*



PWR_SHIFT said:


> So, how would you compare the noise and vibration coming through the new shifter to that of the stock one, is it noticeably worse?



When I had the stock handle on the B&M I didn't notice any noise transmitting through the handle. I believe the materials in the stock handle make a difference. I did make sure to get it glued on the shaft solid too. Come to think of it, that may have helped also.
My t-handle however, is made of metal, and does transmit noise. It's not obnoxious, though. With the t-handle, I also notice when the shifter moves more, (shakes with the motor and trans.,) it doesn't blend in with the rest of the interior as well, because it's chrome. 
I will probably go back to the stock knob when I get the shaft that came with the B&M modified to mount up with the stock knob sitting a little lower, where I want it. I can put the t-handle in my '65 GMC pickup.  
I hope this answers your question. :cheers 

Maximental


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

Yes, thanks.

Here's another couple for you: 
Am I correct that the B&M shifter sits aboout 1.5 inches closer to the d-board stack (farther from the driver) and somewhat over to the right? If so, is it comfortable? 

Did you also consider the JHP unit before going with the B&M?


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## sno-rydr (Oct 13, 2004)

*more info*

let's keep this discussion on shifters going. i am getting a lot out of it. i want a new shifter for my car too. i wouldn't mind improved feel and definitely would like shorter throws, but one complaint is that in order for me to be back far enough for my legs to be comfortable with the pedals, i am too far away from the steering wheel/shifter, even with the wheel all the way out, so i compromise by making it a bit tight on the legs and more difficult for ingress/egress. but if the shifter is 1.5 inches farther away, i don't think it would be worth it. anybody have any other aftermarket shifters that aren't farther away and offer shorter throws? thanks.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I _must_ get one of these...after my brake upgrade this will be next.

I had a short shifter installed in my E46 BMW and was amazed at how huge an improvement it was over stock. With the long throws of the stock Tremec I have to imagine that installation of a short-shifter will similarly improve the GTO.










Word on the 'Vette forums (such as here at our sister site: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1031777 ) is that there is slightly more gearbox vibration that comes through the shifter (as was with my 323i), but nothing huge.


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

That's why I asked about the JHP unit. It may or may not be as precise as a B&M, but it's probably a fair guess that it is still a sizeable improvement over the stock one, and it would have the one advantage of being in exactly the same spot as the factory unit. It would be great if someone actually had tried both JJHP and B&M and could post their impressions on the comparison (I do realize how unlikely this would be though).


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

PWR_SHIFT said:


> Here's another couple for you:
> Am I correct that the B&M shifter sits aboout 1.5 inches closer to the d-board stack (farther from the driver) and somewhat over to the right? If so, is it comfortable?
> Did you also consider the JHP unit before going with the B&M?



Ok, I'll answer the easy question first. No, I didn't consider the other shifter also.

As for the other question, I mounted the shaft on the driver's side of the black peice that comes back and up from the part that goes into the trans., (it's silver in the other pix that was posted.) I had to drill out the the threaded holes, and use 5/16ths bolts to mount it, which was okay, because I now have it bolted in w/nylock nuts. This moved the knob about 3/4" closer to the driver, which I liked. It seems to fall readily into my hand when I reach for it. My main gripe right now is I want the stock knob to sit a little lower, it's a very tall knob. I am going to put another set of mounting holes further up the shaft to mount it. 
I'm 6'1" tall and I have to lean the seat back a little to feel comfortable with the head room in my car. With the shaft mounted on the driver's side, 1-2 is actually pretty close to the drivers' side edge of the center console. I don't think you could get away with moving things too much farther back either. I will take and try to post pix tomorrow that show what I'm talking about.

Off topic but relevant: I would really appreciate it if someone could help me figure out what, or if, I am doing something wrong when I try to attach my pix to these posts. As you can see, it would really be helpful if I could figure it out. I have done it sucessfully on other forums, but can't seem to get something right when I try it here. If you could PM me with some instructions that will help I would appreciate it. I'm not computer illiterate, I just need a little help, thanks. :cheers 

Maximental


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## Doug W. (Mar 19, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I _must_ get one of these...after my brake upgrade this will be next.
> 
> I had a short shifter installed in my E46 BMW and was amazed at how huge an improvement it was over stock. With the long throws of the stock Tremec I have to imagine that installation of a short-shifter will similarly improve the GTO.
> 
> ...


Is it just the camera angle? 
I don't see an anti-rotation slot in the top of that lever, like I've seen in pictures of the stock lever.


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## Maximental (Oct 12, 2004)

*Yes.*



Doug W. said:


> Is it just the camera angle?
> I don't see an anti-rotation slot in the top of that lever, like I've seen in pictures of the stock lever.



Yes, it's there it is @ an exact 90 degree angle from the camera. You could see it from the top too if the camera angle was different.

Maximental


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## Doug W. (Mar 19, 2005)

Maximental said:


> Yes, it's there it is @ an exact 90 degree angle from the camera. You could see it from the top too if the camera angle was different.
> 
> Maximental


Thanks!

Any chance you'd consider selling me your stock lever?

I just got back from my dealer; I was gonna order a lever, so I can see what I have to do to make a custom knob for it.
I couldn't believe it; the parts guy showed me, on his monitor, that the lever and knob are sold as a SET! And, he told me the set sells for $261.00!!!!


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