# PYPES Exhaust



## Benfrank6901 (Aug 10, 2021)

🤡


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I DONT LIKE PYPES


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## slingshot (Aug 22, 2021)

Why? Just curious.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I DONT LIKE PYPES


Hey now, want me to show how good they look  and I don't like clowns


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## Benfrank6901 (Aug 10, 2021)

Purchased yesterday. No confirmation no invoice no ups tracking! Called. Still waiting!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

slingshot said:


> Why? Just curious.


There's only a tiny bit of truth to my comment... which was predominantly geared toward what I had to work with, based on the post.

That being said, Ive been working on GTO's for more than 30 years, and Ive also been a certified welder for most of that time. On my current 67, I didnt like the fit and finish of the Pypes system... however, since my uncle was the one who installed it, I can't say how much of that was his fault.

My only real gripe is that the exhaust has been FAR TOO quiet, since day one. Everyone said it was the X-Pipe, so I removed it... which was an improvement, but barely. Then after months of confusion with the system, I finally called Pypes and asked for advice. They INSISTED that it was the mufflers. 

Well, they only make three mufflers and the ones I have are the middle, so I found that to be ridiculous... and very hard to believe. So I wrestled with it a few more weeks.

Finally I put Flowmaster 40's on it, which are the 2nd loudest mufflers that Flowmaster makes. It's STILL ridiculously quiet... Which leaves me with a fairly aggressive 67 GTO, and I get laughed at by the hotrod crowd because it's so quiet. People with 4 liter engines are twice as loud.

It's a 400, 30 over, ram air roller cam, 800 CFM carb, K&N filter, edelbrock manifold, fully welded exhaust... and a 80 mph, I can have a normal conversation in the car. AND THERES a 4 inch hole in the floor from my Tremec!

But my last GTO wasnt half as aggressive and it had manifolds with cherry bombs, and it was much louder.

And my 70 Vette has a mild 350, stock manifolds, 2 1/4 duals and cheery bombs, and it's loud as HELL!!!!

So it's a mystery to me... and now one that I can believe could be due to the Pypes... but nevertheless, here I am. 

That being said, I dont like that they said it was the mufflers, when it was not, and that's my only real beef. Im on my 3rd set of mufflers.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Benfrank6901 said:


> Purchased yesterday. No confirmation no invoice no ups tracking! Called. Still waiting!


Got it. I really didnt know what you were trying to say. lol


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> There's only a tiny bit of truth to my comment... which was predominantly geared toward what I had to work with, based on the post.
> 
> That being said, Ive been working on GTO's for more than 30 years, and Ive also been a certified welder for most of that time. On my current 67, I didnt like the fit and finish of the Pypes system... however, since my uncle was the one who installed it, I can't say how much of that was his fault.
> 
> ...


You should do the cutouts then, one drive with mine so far and I love them.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I've found ordering from a vender is usually a better alternative than from the supplier, and is often cheaper to boot. I have a Pypes system on mine that I ordered from Summit. I have what should be their quietest mufflers on mine and an X pipe and it's still pretty loud. I had a V6 Dakota that was way louder but that wasn't what I was going for on the LeMans.


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## Captainfish#1 (Dec 31, 2017)

Baaad65 said:


> You should do the cutouts then, one drive with mine so far and I love them.


My Race Pro mufflers are the worst sounding mufflers I have ever heard


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Hey now, want me to show how good they look  and I don't like clowns


I've been trying to sell my 68 bird on FB, I know all about clowns, trust me.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

A good friend installed a complete Pypes system on his '65 about 12 years ago and it's flawless. Great fit, great sound (no drone on long trips, can hear the radio), and he added cut-outs. I was impressed with the fit and quality.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Captainfish#1 said:


> My Race Pro mufflers are the worst sounding mufflers I have ever heard


Check out my YouTube channel Baaad65 and see how they sound, I like them. The cutouts are on there also.


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## Herding Goats (Sep 16, 2017)

I have a 2.5" set of Pypes with an x-pipe. The original install was done by a shop that decided to bend the down tubes and x-pipe to make them "fit better". Apparently better is a subjective term. So I replaced the butchered down tubes and x-pipe with new ones. The replacements fit perfectly, no additional bending needed. I ordered the original kit and the replacements from Summit. I did talk to Pypes tech service a couple of times and found them helpful. The replacements were purchased last summer and Pypes did not have the parts in stock so the rep suggested a retailer. So I cannot speak to ordering them direct. Keep us posted!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> You should do the cutouts then, one drive with mine so far and I love them.


I love the way your car sounds with the cutouts, but my point was, my cars were ridiculously loud, without them... until I got this Pypes.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Captainfish#1 said:


> My Race Pro mufflers are the worst sounding mufflers I have ever heard


Ive been putting loud mufflers on fifty different cars, trucks, and motorcycles, since 1987. I really thought I had it down to a science. This Pypes thing has me stumped.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Duff said:


> I've been trying to sell my 68 bird on FB, I know all about clowns, trust me.


PM me the details. Id like to see it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> A good friend installed a complete Pypes system on his '65 about 12 years ago and it's flawless. Great fit, great sound (no drone on long trips, can hear the radio), and he added cut-outs. I was impressed with the fit and quality.


@Baaad65 had the same experience. Which makes mine even more perplexing


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> PM me the details. Id like to see it.


It's Verdoro Green and in the General Classified section of this site, I MAY have finally found a buyer, too soon to tell.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Herding Goats said:


> I have a 2.5" set of Pypes with an x-pipe. The original install was done by a shop that decided to bend the down tubes and x-pipe to make them "fit better". Apparently better is a subjective term. So I replaced the butchered down tubes and x-pipe with new ones. The replacements fit perfectly, no additional bending needed. I ordered the original kit and the replacements from Summit. I did talk to Pypes tech service a couple of times and found them helpful. The replacements were purchased last summer and Pypes did not have the parts in stock so the rep suggested a retailer. So I cannot speak to ordering them direct. Keep us posted!


That's the kind of feedback that I usually hear about them. 

Ive almost ordered a new system from them, a few times, but Im a tad reluctant until I know why mine is so quiet.


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> There's only a tiny bit of truth to my comment... which was predominantly geared toward what I had to work with, based on the post.
> 
> That being said, Ive been working on GTO's for more than 30 years, and Ive also been a certified welder for most of that time. On my current 67, I didnt like the fit and finish of the Pypes system... however, since my uncle was the one who installed it, I can't say how much of that was his fault.
> 
> ...


I ran flow master 40's on my BBC square body pickup, they had deep and loud sound, Ioved them!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I love the way your car sounds with the cutouts, but my point was, my cars were ridiculously loud, without them... until I got this Pypes.


I don't think mine was to quite before the cutouts at all and I'm running mannys.


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I don't think mine was to quite before the cutouts at all and I'm running mannys.


What's a "manny"?


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Duff said:


> What's a "manny"?





Duff said:


> What's a "manny"?


Never mind senior moment MANIFOLDS


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I don't think mine was to quite before the cutouts at all and I'm running mannys.


My point exactly. My low performance vette with mannys was twice as loud as my worked 400 with headers.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

iron manny 2" pipe, cherry bomb = no sleep for the neighbors. Had the same on 396, 289, and 389 all louder than they should be. I miss setting off car alarms.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I could have my GTO idling a wedding ceremony or baby christening and the only complaints would be that it was too quiet for a GTO


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I could have my GTO idling a wedding ceremony or baby christening and the only complaints would be that it was too quiet for a GTO


Bananas in the tailpipes ?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Something is in there


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The Magnaflow kit will tuck up higher underneath better than the Pypes system will. I did however connect to my Ram Air exhaust manifolds using Pypes downpipes.








Didn't cut my ground clearance at all. From the side:








Rear:


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Magnaflow was my Go-To muffler for the last 10 years, but my uncle already had the Pypes on it. I didnt think it would be loud enough with Magnaflow mufflers, which is why I went with very aggressive... which didnt work.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Exhaust tone is very subjective. One persons "just louder than stock" is ear splitting to the next guy. Certain engines just sound better with certain mufflers. I had an 84 Camaro that was stock except for headers. My BIL had the same year Firebird with the same headers. I had a Dynomax muffler, he had a Flowmaster (both were the stock style crossflow muffler and both cars were cat deleted). His sounded like a V6 where the Camaro sounded way bigger than a 305. I put a Corsa system on a GMC Sierra 5.3. All the write ups said it wasn't that loud and it wasn't, at idle. As soon as you gave it gas, it sounded like it was running straight pipes with severe resonance in the cab. I put a Vibrant resonator on it and it toned it down outside and made it so the exhaust was just a side note inside.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I always worried about running headers. I have left many a muffler in the field doing a General Lee impersonation. I would hate to leave an entire exhaust system.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

67ventwindow said:


> I always worried about running headers. I have left many a muffler in the field doing a General Lee impersonation. I would hate to leave an entire exhaust system.


Someone said headers...don't get me started!  I just removed the old Hooker headers that have served my car since the late 80's. So, I can't complain much about them... but I will...lol. The outlet flanges might of lived through yet one more gasket change, but the funny thing is the lower 2 tubes on the passenger side were about 1/2 flattened with road rash. I guess I was more of the Smokey-and-the-Bandit type of driver as a youth. 🤣

I'm going with HO mani's moving forward.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Sick467 said:


> Someone said headers...don't get me started!  I just removed the old Hooker headers that have served my car since the late 80's. So, I can't complain much about them... but I will...lol. The outlet flanges might of lived through yet one more gasket change, but the funny thing is the lower 2 tubes on the passenger side were about 1/2 flattened with road rash. I guess I was more of the Smokey-and-the-Bandit type of driver as a youth. 🤣
> 
> I'm going with HO mani's moving forward.


I've never installed full tube headers but have done shorty style on a few cars, including my LeMans. I've installed them on two cars within the last month. The other was on a SN95 Mustang which was a bit easier install than on the Pontiac.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Jared said:


> have done shorty style


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Sick467 said:


> Someone said headers...don't get me started!  I just removed the old Hooker headers that have served my car since the late 80's. So, I can't complain much about them... but I will...lol. The outlet flanges might of lived through yet one more gasket change, but the funny thing is the lower 2 tubes on the passenger side were about 1/2 flattened with road rash. I guess I was more of the Smokey-and-the-Bandit type of driver as a youth. 🤣
> 
> I'm going with HO mani's moving forward.


I HATE HEADERS....BUT HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE>>


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

roger1 said:


> The Magnaflow kit will tuck up higher underneath better than the Pypes system will. I did however connect to my Ram Air exhaust manifolds using Pypes downpipes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same here, Magnaflow x and pypes. Its little loud while cruising in third (three speed 3:55 gears). Gonna have to have the wife run it by me so I can hear what they sound like cruisin and mid/wot throttle.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Eric Animal said:


> I HATE HEADERS....BUT HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE>>


How come no choice?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

RMTZ67 said:


> Same here, Magnaflow x and pypes. Its little loud while cruising in third (three speed 3:55 gears). Gonna have to have the wife run it by me so I can hear what they sound like cruisin and mid/wot throttle.


Who cares how loud it is, then they're too old 🤣


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Baaad65 said:


> How come no choice?


There are no manifolds that fit ...due to the chassis (custom) and steering . I wanted to use a set of RamAir round ports...but won't fit.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Eric Animal said:


> There are no manifolds that fit ...due to the chassis (custom) and steering . I wanted to use a set of RamAir round ports...but won't fit.


Ah that's right I forgot how custom everything was on that beast 👍 didn't want anything to do with headers, had them for a short time on a 428 in my '67 then switched to mannys.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Who cares how loud it is, then they're too old 🤣


 I prefer to think of it as "wise" not "old"! lol


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Now that the trans is done, it's time for me to finally address this god awful exhaust issue. I just ordered this, and if it doesnt solve the issue, im going to open headers.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

This new pypes system has cutouts built into it.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Sick467 said:


> I prefer to think of it as "wise" not "old"! lol


My father in law owned a store and was was telling a younger ( lady?) to move her car. She told him FU old man. He said it was not the FU that bothered him it was the old man part.


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

She was nasty, and she eats with that same mouth!


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

I'm getting ready to order a Pypes system for my old 66 project and was leaning towards non X setup, only because I have a Magna Flow X system on a 68 firebird, and don't like it. In the Ames catalog it says that a non X system tends to fit poorly, I didn't see the reasoning behind this, so I emailed Pypes, hears what they had to say.


"It's not that fit poorly, you don't have any flexibility in adjustments if you need to. With the X, you can size the piping properly. Besides this, you can pick up 20+ hp from the X. Alot of customers thing the X gets in the way of the tranny and that's not true... The center of the X is 12" away from the tail shaft of the trans, so if you ever need to get to the trans or manifolds, or whatever, you can. By using band clamps on the connections, you can easily remove the piping to get things out of the way and still have the exhaust hung without disturbing anything."

All Pypes Exhaust makes/sells is stainless steel and also has a lifetime warranty...

Any other questions, please let me know...


I decided to go with the X system.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I had the x, cut it out, now want to try it again with my new cam


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I had the x, cut it out, now want to try it again with my new cam


Want to see mine and 😁


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

I can agree with some of the issues state on this thread. I purchased the pypes street pro system 2.5", overall im happy with it, but the fitment was not that great. I took it to have the rear "pea shooters" modified and tucked, and in the photo the shop is trying to modify the fitment because it rubs on the frame rails in the rear. His comment after asking me what system it was and who installed it was "it just doesnt fit that great" I even had to dent an area behind the x pipe because it was rubbing on a cross brace on the floorboard. Again overall im happy with it, BUT if I had done my research and just contacted my muffler shop before hand I could of had a complete custom fit exhuast madrel bent and welded up for ~$500 manifolds back with my muffler of choice. If anyone is interested this is Bobby Gentrys Muffler in Denton Texas. They are WELL know in the hot rod community up here for meticulous alignments and exhaust work. I will agree with armyadarkness it is pretty quiet I do wish it were a bit louder, but I do have the entire interior floor, roof, and doors covered with "boom mat" and that really does block out ALOT of exterior sound. I think in the future I am going to have Gentrys weld me up a custom exhaust. 

What muffler do you all recommend???


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Im PESSIMISTICALLY trying the Pypes Violators... I do NOT expect to be happy with them. If it doesnt sound like the hammer of hell after this, then Ill be going to Flowmaster Super 10's. I get quiet, but when a muscle car doesnt sound like muscle, its just embarrassing.

Ive literally had two occasions where enamoured onlookers walked away from my car becasue it sounds so mediocre


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

of course, with this kit, if it's too quiet, Ill just pull off the x caps


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

BTW, Ive tried Race pro, Steer Pro, Cherry Bomb, and Flowmaster 44's, which they claim is their loudest street, and its a joke.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

TxGTO69 said:


> I can agree with some of the issues state on this thread. I purchased the pypes street pro system 2.5", overall im happy with it, but the fitment was not that great. I took it to have the rear "pea shooters" modified and tucked, and in the photo the shop is trying to modify the fitment because it rubs on the frame rails in the rear. His comment after asking me what system it was and who installed it was "it just doesnt fit that great" I even had to dent an area behind the x pipe because it was rubbing on a cross brace on the floorboard. Again overall im happy with it, BUT if I had done my research and just contacted my muffler shop before hand I could of had a complete custom fit exhuast madrel bent and welded up for ~$500 manifolds back with my muffler of choice. If anyone is interested this is Bobby Gentrys Muffler in Denton Texas. They are WELL know in the hot rod community up here for meticulous alignments and exhaust work. I will agree with armyadarkness it is pretty quiet I do wish it were a bit louder, but I do have the entire interior floor, roof, and doors covered with "boom mat" and that really does block out ALOT of exterior sound. I think in the future I am going to have Gentrys weld me up a custom exhaust.
> 
> What muffler do you all recommend???
> 
> ...


Nice looking ride, now I want to see more.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> of course, with this kit, if it's too quiet, Ill just pull off the x caps


Idk if you're going to like those cutouts right under you, and you'll have to get extensions to get the fumes out and away, it's only been one drive but I like mine right before the muffler and they are plenty loud even with manny's and down pipes.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Get a set of chambered exhaust pipes. No mufflers. 





__





Classic Chambered Exhaust Inc. - Home Page






www.classicchambered.com


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Nice looking ride, now I want to see more.





Baaad65 said:


> Nice looking ride, now I want to see more.


Thank you very much, it came out exactly how I visioned.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

O52 said:


> Get a set of chambered exhaust pipes. No mufflers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what the Pypes Violators that I have are. Looks like a muffler, but it's just a 3' chambered straight pipe


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

TxGTO69 said:


> Thank you very much, it came out exactly how I visioned.
> 
> View attachment 152970
> View attachment 152971


Love it and I like that green...nice job! What makes it go ?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

TxGTO69 said:


> Thank you very much, it came out exactly how I visioned.
> 
> View attachment 152970
> View attachment 152971


I rarely ever, if at all, like the old cars with low profile tires, but that's about the best Ive seen so far.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Thats exactly what the Pypes Violators that I have are. Looks like a muffler, but it's just a 3' chambered straight pipe
> View attachment 152972


I almost did those but from all the videos they sounded a little "rappy" I guess you call it and I thought they might be too loud, the Pypes tech recommended the Race Pros. I do like them but then I wanted to get a little crazier, hence the cutouts.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

TxGTO69 said:


> Thank you very much, it came out exactly how I visioned.
> 
> View attachment 152970
> View attachment 152971


18" wheels ? and I like the judge stripe without going full out judge.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I almost did those but from all the videos they sounded a little "rappy" I guess you call it and I thought they might be too loud, the Pypes tech recommended the Race Pros. I do like them but then I wanted to get a little crazier, hence the cutouts.


I swear the Pypes guys want my car to be quiet... but since they sell a $600 optional cut out kit, maybe they're smarter than theyre letting on.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I swear the Pypes guys want my car to be quiet... but since they sell a $600 optional cut out kit, maybe they're smarter than theyre letting on.


Don't do the Pypes cutouts though, do the Doug's they are cheaper and better


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Chambered pipes were an early option on the 69 or 70 Camaro and Chevelle. Although designed for the COPO race cars they were dropped due to excessive noise.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Maybe these will work for you Army, lol


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Love it and I like that green...nice job! What makes it go ?


A heavy right foot!!!

JK? Actually nothing spectacular, its the OE YS block in stock form, with the stock 62 heads. Only thing Ive changed is to add an aluminum cold case radiator after attempts to repair to OE rad failed, and using a holley 4175 spreadbore carb, and finally one of summits ready to run distributor which has performed great. The stock quadrajet was in good shape except for a off idle bog, I ordered Cliff Ruggles book and performed a rebuild. Didnt matter what I adjusted I just could NOT get rid of the off idle bog, highway speed it performed great and the bog was very slight when I hammered it while cruising, but I just could not eliminate it completly. So I ordered a holley and have been so far very happy with the performance.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I rarely ever, if at all, like the old cars with low profile tires, but that's about the best Ive seen so far.


I appreciate that, I kept the overall diameter 26" of what a stock 15" wheel and tire would have been.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> 18" wheels ? and I like the judge stripe without going full out judge.


Yes. 18x8 in the front and 18x10 rear. 245/45 up front and 275/40 rear


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

O52 said:


> Chambered pipes were an early option on the 69 or 70 Camaro and Chevelle. Although designed for the COPO race cars they were dropped due to excessive noise.


This damn Pypes has been so whisper quiet, I don't see anything waking it up... but we'll see in a few hours. As it is I have headers and Flowmaster 44s, it should sound like gatling gun, it does not.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

O52 said:


> Maybe these will work for you Army, lol
> 
> View attachment 152982
> View attachment 152983
> View attachment 152984


Meh... I had Dinty Moore single chambers on my mower and I hated them. Too much drone


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

TxGTO69 said:


> I appreciate that, I kept the overall diameter 26" of what a stock 15" wheel and tire would have been.


When I was a kid, the recipe for a hotrod was:

Loud mufflers
Big tires
and a chrome air cleaner
Didnt matter what kinda car it was... So it's hard for me to see the beauty in these old muscle cars, unless they have big side walls. Same as preferring a carb over FI or drums over discs... meaty tires were just the ambassador of my childhood.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

You forgot the 'Big Foot' gas pedal. I know it added 3 HP to my buddies 66 Falcon six cylinder









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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> When I was a kid, the recipe for a hotrod was:
> 
> Loud mufflers
> Big tires
> ...


I hear ya, to each his own. I love your recipe...on some vehicles, but others/mine I prefer a resto-mod look. Everybody has their own preferances and I'll never (try to) say anything ill mannered towards another persons car. It may not be my preference, but at the end of the day I am not the one driving it. At the same time, I do see some what would be a bad ass muscle car just done completly wrong and it just makes me cringe, again...Im not the one driving it.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

O52 said:


> You forgot the 'Big Foot' gas pedal. I know it added 3 HP to my buddies 66 Falcon six cylinder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually bought one of these at a garage sale when I was 12 years old and COULDNT WAIT to install it on my first car. Sadly I lost it sometime before I turned 16.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

TxGTO69 said:


> I can agree with some of the issues state on this thread. I purchased the pypes street pro system 2.5", overall im happy with it, but the fitment was not that great. I took it to have the rear "pea shooters" modified and tucked, and in the photo the shop is trying to modify the fitment because it rubs on the frame rails in the rear. His comment after asking me what system it was and who installed it was "it just doesnt fit that great" I even had to dent an area behind the x pipe because it was rubbing on a cross brace on the floorboard. Again overall im happy with it, BUT if I had done my research and just contacted my muffler shop before hand I could of had a complete custom fit exhuast madrel bent and welded up for ~$500 manifolds back with my muffler of choice. If anyone is interested this is Bobby Gentrys Muffler in Denton Texas. They are WELL know in the hot rod community up here for meticulous alignments and exhaust work. I will agree with armyadarkness it is pretty quiet I do wish it were a bit louder, but I do have the entire interior floor, roof, and doors covered with "boom mat" and that really does block out ALOT of exterior sound. I think in the future I am going to have Gentrys weld me up a custom exhaust.
> 
> What muffler do you all recommend???
> 
> ...


I went with Flowmstr HP-2’s as I like the old school Boom low freq sound like the old style cherry bombs had but these are much better as far as being an efficient vortex flow, I had a local Hot Rod Shop build the whole thing with high grade stainless, has a great sound now
Pic was before the tails were completed


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

O52 said:


> You forgot the 'Big Foot' gas pedal. I know it added 3 HP to my buddies 66 Falcon six cylinder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I couldve included bucket seats and an Indymatic Shifter, too! We would always take the buckets out of Vega's and put them in our Nova's


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

O52 said:


> Maybe these will work for you Army, lol
> 
> View attachment 152982
> View attachment 152983
> View attachment 152984


I saw some of this at our high school. This year graduating class might break the 50 person mark.

But there was one that extended his tail pipe above the roof line at the rear bumper and added an exhaust flapper. Because he wanted it to sound like his tractor. Now that kid is going places!!!


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

My cousin bought a new 82 VW Rabbit truck with the 48 HP diesel engine. He then had 3" dual stacks with the flapper valve installed behind the cab. Just like his Peterbuilt.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

Jetzster said:


> I went with Flowmstr HP-2’s as I like the old school Boom low freq sound like the old style cherry bombs had but these are much better as far as being an efficient vortex flow, I had a local Hot Rod Shop build the whole thing with high grade stainless, has a great sound now
> Pic was before the tails were completed
> View attachment 152987
> View attachment 152989


THAT LOOKS GREAT!!


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

TxGTO69 said:


> I can agree with some of the issues state on this thread. I purchased the pypes street pro system 2.5", overall im happy with it, but the fitment was not that great. I took it to have the rear "pea shooters" modified and tucked, and in the photo the shop is trying to modify the fitment because it rubs on the frame rails in the rear. His comment after asking me what system it was and who installed it was "it just doesnt fit that great" I even had to dent an area behind the x pipe because it was rubbing on a cross brace on the floorboard. Again overall im happy with it, BUT if I had done my research and just contacted my muffler shop before hand I could of had a complete custom fit exhuast madrel bent and welded up for ~$500 manifolds back with my muffler of choice. If anyone is interested this is Bobby Gentrys Muffler in Denton Texas. They are WELL know in the hot rod community up here for meticulous alignments and exhaust work. I will agree with armyadarkness it is pretty quiet I do wish it were a bit louder, but I do have the entire interior floor, roof, and doors covered with "boom mat" and that really does block out ALOT of exterior sound. I think in the future I am going to have Gentrys weld me up a custom exhaust.
> 
> What muffler do you all recommend???


I'm surprised by the fitment problems you ran into. I have a 2.5 inch Pypes system with the X pipe on my 70 . It fit really good with plenty of room over the axle. Only issue I ran into was picking out tips since the Pypes system goes out the back straight. I cut a pair that were supposed to be dumps to get the look I wanted. I really don't like huge exhaust tips that stick way out. Yours look great BTW.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> This damn Pypes has been so whisper quiet, I don't see anything waking it up... but we'll see in a few hours. As it is I have headers and Flowmaster 44s, it should sound like gatling gun, it does not.


I've been thinking about your too quiet issue. It really doesn't make much sense. My old tired 400 had maybe 250 hp through 2.25 inch pipes with knock off chambered mufflers (basically generic FM 40 series) and it was loud as hell. I saw a video one time where someone installed motorcycle type packed mufflers in the head pipes to quiet it down. Is it possible this was done on yours at some point? I have the longer Racepros on mine now and while it's not ear splitting, it's pretty loud. Like pull into the gas station and everyone at the pumps looks up loud.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

Jared said:


> I'm surprised by the fitment problems you ran into. I have a 2.5 inch Pypes system with the X pipe on my 70 . It fit really good with plenty of room over the axle. Only issue I ran into was picking out tips since the Pypes system goes out the back straight. I cut a pair that were supposed to be dumps to get the look I wanted. I really don't like huge exhaust tips that stick way out. Yours look great BTW.
> 
> 
> View attachment 152992


Thank you. to me its not a huge issue a few dents in your exhaust never hurt anything. Have you watched engine masters and how they destroyed a set of headers and it didnt hurt exhaust flow at all or barely anyway. I was more dissapointed in myself for not calling my exhaust shop first. I just assumed a fully welded madrel bend custom exhaust would be out of my price range and a off the shelf item is more cost effective. I have learned a lesson.

That looks great as well.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

TxGTO69 said:


> Thank you. to me its not a huge issue a few dents in your exhaust never hurt anything. Have you watched engine masters and how they destroyed a set of headers and it didnt hurt exhaust flow at all or barely anyway. I was more dissapointed in myself for not calling my exhaust shop first. I just assumed a fully welded madrel bend custom exhaust would be out of my price range and a off the shelf item is more cost effective. I have learned a lesson.
> 
> That looks great as well.


I did see that. The results were amazing to say the least. Honestly, the main reason I went with a prefab over an exhaust shop is I don't like leaving my car at a shop. It's not a trust thing, but convenience. I do all the work on the project cars on my time. Things stop being fun when they are put on a schedule for me. That being said, mine is going to it's first show in three years on Saturday, so tomorrow after work I'll be checking the timing and giving it a bath to get it ready.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

Jared said:


> I did see that. The results were amazing to say the least. Honestly, the main reason I went with a prefab over an exhaust shop is I don't like leaving my car at a shop. It's not a trust thing, but convenience. I do all the work on the project cars on my time. Things stop being fun when they are put on a schedule for me. That being said, mine is going to it's first show in three years on Saturday, so tomorrow after work I'll be checking the timing and giving it a bath to get it ready.


Never been a statment more true sir!!! I may have some trust issues though...😆


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

TxGTO69 said:


> Never been a statment more true sir!!! I may have some trust issues though...😆


I was trying to not sound like a crazy person. I have my moments.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Jared said:


> I've been thinking about your too quiet issue. It really doesn't make much sense. My old tired 400 had maybe 250 hp through 2.25 inch pipes with knock off chambered mufflers (basically generic FM 40 series) and it was loud as hell. I saw a video one time where someone installed motorcycle type packed mufflers in the head pipes to quiet it down. Is it possible this was done on yours at some point? I have the longer Racepros on mine now and while it's not ear splitting, it's pretty loud. Like pull into the gas station and everyone at the pumps looks up loud.


NOT MINE!!!!!!!! It's QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

UPDATE!

New Pypes system came in a day.

Last night, had the entire old system off in 30 minutes, and ran the car, to make sure there wasnt a tennis ball or squirrel in my collectors:





Then the new pipes system went up, front tires on ground, rear on stands. The new one-piece tailpipes went in, zero issues. Had to cut 1" off two pipes, and the rest bolted right up! So with regard to shipping speed and fitment, Pypes gets an A+. Took about 1.5 hours, on my back.

Ill drive it with clamps for a few days. Check fitment, adjust, and then weld it myself.

Now the bad... with the Violator mufflers, it's still TOO FLIPPING QUIET! Yes, Im sure at speed and when getting on it, it's loud, but when starting and at idle, it's a kitten. I took video but I couldnt rev it so youll just get an idle snip for now... Fortunately I got the system with the cutouts built in, so Ill probably weld some 1.75" turn downs on the caps and see if that does it. I refuse to have a 67 GTO that's not as loud as a Mustang GT with 100 less cubes.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

well at least i know there's no squirrel in there


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## dadspackard31 (Dec 2, 2019)

Army,

Sounds good from here.

I cheaped out and purchased this system last year. Dynomax performance exhaust 89023, dual - thrush dual exhaust kit along with 2.5" SS Pypes down pipes.

The fit was good but I need to get it up on a lift and make some adjustments and have a buddy of mine weld it up.

I don't care for the tail pipe tips to much thou. The tips looks to much like a male anatomy  so I am looking to replace them with some chrome or stainless (which I could get some scrape stainless pipe here at work ) ones at some point.


Hi Jared, Where did you get your 2.5" tips from?

Thanks


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

TxGTO69 said:


> I actually bought one of these at a garage sale when I was 12 years old and COULDNT WAIT to install it on my first car. Sadly I lost it sometime before I turned 16.


I drive barefoot a lot, so those are very useful. I especially love when they get stuck in the carpet.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

dadspackard31 said:


> Army,
> 
> Sounds good from here.
> 
> ...


Thanks, bro!

I order stainless tips off Amazon. theyre cheap!

Well if you ever drive to Jersey, I have a box of stainless 2.5 GTO mufflers, all with under 100 miles on them, and a Pypes x pipe.


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## dadspackard31 (Dec 2, 2019)

Army,

What tips did you go with? Pictures please


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

dadspackard31 said:


> Army,
> 
> What tips did you go with? Pictures please


I still have to cut the tips off my old system and weld them on, but here's what I got.

Here are the stainless Pypes tips, which I no longer use. Nice looking, but over priced...




















Dont have any great pics... 3" tips on 2.5" pipe, is what I use now. When the system is welded and the tips are on, I'll get more pics and video


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

dadspackard31 said:


> Army,
> 
> Sounds good from here.
> 
> ...


Those are kind of home brew. I can look for the exact part later but they were something like this when ordered:









Stainless Works 7070250 Stainless Works Exhaust Tips | Summit Racing


Free Shipping - Stainless Works Exhaust Tips with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Exhaust Tips at Summit Racing.




www.summitracing.com





I then cut them at the angle you see. Basically, I wanted a polished look but something that looked like it didn't have a tip on it at all. Turned out better than I expected.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I dont like turn downs. I want my exhaust to hit people in the face.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> I dont like turn downs. I want my exhaust to hit people in the face.


Like truck stacks?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## dadspackard31 (Dec 2, 2019)

Army,

Looking good, I bet it is nice and loud now


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Nice look you got going there Army!

Glad this post came back. I am beginning to like the Race Pros a bit less than I did before. Last weekend was really the first time I've had my car out for some real miles since installing the shorty headers and getting the timing set right. While the Race Pros sounded great on my tired low HP 400 and seemed OK with the 461 with the stock cast manifolds, I've developed a pretty nasty drone between say 1900 and 2300 rpm. It's fine everywhere else. They are definitely not quiet by any stretch on my set up and the car sounds great outside (lots of thumbs up). Tough thing here is I have the 18 inch body mufflers and there is not much available that are the same size. I was thinking of maybe going with Dynomax turbos and with a shorter body and adding extension pipes but not sure yet. I may also just drive it for a while and see if the drone is a deal breaker.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As I suspected before I went down this road... the new system is still far too quiet, so I do stand by my initial statement in this thread, which is that; despite what Pypes says, the mufflers do not control the noise. At least, not as much as the exhaust. They also talked me out of the 3", which now Im REALLY regretting.

Even with the violators on, every Mustang, Camaro, Chevelle, and Dodge that I see, embarrasses me with their muscle car tone... even though my engine is bigger and often more aggressive.

Yes, adding the side tips fixes it, but it doesnt sound great... just like open manifolds... and did I really need to send $1000 on an exhaust that I have to bypass?

So................
I like the kit. It fits well... but in retrospect, I would do header mufflers and then have a shop finish the tail pipes.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Here's my update, for anyone who still cares.

Even with the loudest mufflers that Pypes has, which are 3", straight through chambered, with no baffles, the car is super quiet at start up and idle, to the point of embarrassment.

Pypes wouldnt sell me the 3" kit that I wanted, because they only recommend that for engines over 500 HP, for fear of losing too much bottom end.

That being said, on a car making 450 lb feet of torque, with a manual trans and 13.1 first gear ratio... I couldve easily given up some small torque to get that sound!

Fortunately, I bought the 2.5" x-pipe kit with the side dump provisions... and I put it to good use. 

Uncapped, the dumps are loud, but sound like crap... so I welded up two homemade, removable baffles and I put them into 2.5"x17" straight pipe, welded to collectors, and bolted them in. 

Now the car FINALLY sounds like a GTO!!! It made a huge difference in sound, and interestingly enough, the car revvs up much faster and pulls much harder. So... I essentially have four mufflers... wouldve preferred the 3" kit, but just goes to show, my car wanted more flow than 2.5 duals was allowing. Pypes may be the experts, but in the end, science and logic still reign supreme.

I am now getting afterfire when shifting, so I have to see if I can tune that out.


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## Benfrank6901 (Aug 10, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Here's my update, for anyone who still cares.
> 
> Even with the loudest mufflers that Pypes has, which are 3", straight through chambered, with no baffles, the car is super quiet at start up and idle, to the point of embarrassment.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Good information


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Here's my update, for anyone who still cares.
> 
> Even with the loudest mufflers that Pypes has, which are 3", straight through chambered, with no baffles, the car is super quiet at start up and idle, to the point of embarrassment.
> 
> ...


Do you have video or it didn't happen


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Do you have video or it didn't happen


I've been asking him for a sound clip of this for days...


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Do you have video or it didn't happen


It has to stop raining in New Jersey before I can get video


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Jared said:


> I've been asking him for a sound clip of this for days...


I need to do a drift video to demonstrate the suspension, a tremec video to demonstrate the transmission, and an exhaust video! Just waiting for the weather to work with me


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> It has to stop raining in New Jersey before I can get video


Isn't that a movie title 😉


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


>


Pretty quiet if you ask me


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Pretty quiet if you ask me


It's almost as loud as I want it.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> It's almost as loud as I want it.


Is the exhaust going to come out of both the tails and the cutouts? Should get the Doug's cutouts they're nice


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes it comes out of four mufflers... thaanks to Pypes, who simply shoulve sold me the 3" that I wanted... regardless... no need for cutouts. Cant see any reason that Id ever close them. The car is fairly quiet inside, which you can hear in the video.

It's not ridiculously loud, at all. Still *much* quieter than a Mustange GT or Chevelle


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

EXHAUST AFTERFIRE


The sound Im after is the sound that my old 66 and 67 had... so a Chevy engine wouldnt do it. I just want the same "attitude" that the Mustangs have, with their baby engines. I only have 2.5" Pypes continually talked me out of the 3", which now I fully regret... My compression ratio is 10.10...




www.gtoforum.com


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I finally got to do a ton of burnouts and filming last night... but unfortunately, the videographer was very inexperienced and so the mic sensitivity was too high... So most have to be redone, but Im hoping a few are savable. The exhaust is EPIC!!!!!!

expect clips soon!

@Duff


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

On a brighter note, my exhaust mod FINALLY uncorked this car, which has been giving me very lackluster performance for the last year.

@PontiacJim as predicted, the TKX allowed me to get my rpms into the new cams happy place, so with a very mild 400, the car roasts the posi through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th,5th... and does roll on burnouts till the cows come home!!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Ill be deleting these when the new files are redone


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> I finally got to do a ton of burnouts and filming last night... but unfortunately, the videographer was very inexperienced and so the mic sensitivity was too high... So most have to be redone, but Im hoping a few are savable. The exhaust is EPIC!!!!!!
> 
> expect clips soon!
> 
> @Duff


Ah ha! The different gear multiplication of a manual trans makes a big difference. As I said about the TH-400, a higher stall converter would have also pepped the engine response up.

The 3 things that will improve any stock or slightly modified GTO are - carb, good exhaust, timing. Good air/fuel mixture goes in and that mixture has to flow back out just as good, not be choked. Then optimize your timing parameters and you will have a hard pulling car - this was all I ever did on the GTO's I owned when younger as I did not have the money to add all the high dollar "goodies" back then. 

I learned again in my youth that big pipes are the ticket. I had the build 409 and had installed 2 1/2 head pipes and the engine was a dog inspite of the 320 duration .530" lift solid cam, big valve heads, and 2x4 carbs. That engine was "supposed" to be a head ripper according to those I mentioned my build to and...........The Beach Boys. It was a dud and my GTO's seemed much faster. For some reason I pulled the head pipes off and ran with just the factory cast iron exhaust with its 2 1/2" outlets as I recall. It was like day and night. I could smoke tires at will with the 3.08's and 4-speed. I learned then, 3" pipes - along with good flowing shorty turbo mufflers and 3" tail pipes. Don't believe the BS about heat reduction of the gases as they cool goung through the pipes so you only need a 2" or 2 1/4" tailpipes. Bigger is better and better is more HP and throttle response.

Yes, 3" pipes take up a lot more room and are bulky, but that is all I run on any performance cars - "F" the nay sayers who say you need some "exhaust back pressure" - were is the back pressure with Zoomie headers/open headers on top fuel dragsters, funny cars, AA Altered, and drag cars in general??

There is a supplier that now makes oval 3" pipe for clearance reasons. Not inexpensive, but it will fit tighter under the body if 3" round is a concern.

So those 3 things I mentioned earlier are those things you can work with and adjust on almost any stock or near stock Pontiac engine to bring out more HP and responsiveness.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

When talking to Pypes about ordering mine and checking the all knowing interweb they said 3" was for above 500hp, and doesn't it depend on how good your head flow is? And I was using 2.5 exhaust manifolds anyway so I didn't think there was much sense in going up to 3" after those, maybe I was wrong but ain't changing it now.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

There are a ton of misconceptions on how exhaust actually works and what aspects of it affect engine performance. The bigger loss of using larger pipes at lower RPMs doesn't really have anything to do with heat loss or back pressure. It's the scavenging affect. This is why long tube headers with equal length runners are better than shorty headers, which are better than log manifolds. The long tube separate the exhaust into individual pulses with each one acting to draw the next one out. The smaller diameter pipes keep each pulse more focused and allows the same thing to happen. This is the same reason why an X pipe is supposed to add power. This starts to go away at high RPM where the exhaust gasses are moving so fast (or less time between pulses) where the scavenging affect doesn't matter as much. This is why they run zoomies or huge open headers on a drag car. Those engines are never expected to operate at lower RPMs so they don't need the scavenging affect.

There is also the consideration of running a manual transmission. Stick shift cars don't seem to suffer as much from the slight loss of low end you may get from running an oversized exhaust, and can sometimes benefit from it. Figure most folks will wind out the gears a bit more on a manual transmission car than they would on an automatic and the driver can dictate what RPM they release the clutch etc. 

Sound is an entirely different animal. Even with the same exact muffler, bigger will be louder. Since sound was what Amy was actually interested in, I would have ordered the 3" and be done with it.

PJ makes a great point that air fuel in, timing, and air out. All of these things affect where your engine will be the happiest. Unfortunately, that is a balancing act that can usually not be fully optimized because you have to add in the human factor. Every one of us makes some choices that impact how our cars will run. Some would happily sacrifice some HP to have a quieter car or sacrifice some low end to have a super loud car.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

> Yes, 3" pipes take up a lot more room and are bulky, but that is all I run on any performance cars - "F" the nay sayers who say you need some "exhaust back pressure" - were is the back pressure with Zoomie headers/open headers on top fuel dragsters, funny cars, AA Altered, and drag cars in general??


Exactly. There's even an Engine Masters episode where they tested different exhaust systems and they found that result also. The idea that some exhaust back pressure is beneficial is a bunch of hooey. The goal is to maximize flow velocity WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY removing flow resistance (back pressure). A high flow velocity, due to the inertia of the moving gasses, actually helps to "pull" exhaust out of the engine so that it doesn't have to expend energy to "push" them out. Too small of an exhaust forces it to push due to back pressure/resistance, and so does "too big" (because flow velocity isn't high enough to help move things along). 

Bear


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Well as Ive mentioned a few times now, I completely disagreed with Pypes, but I tried to respect their knowledge, and it bit me in the ass... TWICE NOW! So... Im the fool... but when my ass heels, I'll but the 3" and hopefully sell this one to try and recoup some coin.

The car is SO much more fun to drive now... but my additional mufflers make it a tad more cumbersome than I prefer... It bought me some time.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Ah ha! The different gear multiplication of a manual trans makes a big difference. As I said about the TH-400, a higher stall converter would have also pepped the engine response up.


Yes, it cant be understated!


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