# 1969 GTO JUDGE Engine Worth! Need Advice!



## JimK (Jul 11, 2016)

Hey everyone,

I am looking for some help and advice on how much a motor is worth. It is a 1969 Pontiac GTO JUDGE motor, 400 cu.in. The block, crank, rod's, timing cover, and cylinder heads are included. Plus, it has been checked for cracks and has ALL correct casting and stamped ID numbers. 

I would like to get a few references from others on how much $$ this thing is worth. Please let me know what you think!


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

By "GTO Judge" engine, you mean you have documented the vin numbers (not engine code) on the block to match the vin numbers of a documented 1969 Judge?


----------



## JimK (Jul 11, 2016)

There is cast numbers and the actual stamped ID numbers from the motor. The motor is from the original owner of the car, but he had rolled it back in 1974.


----------



## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

I assume this is a D-port RA3 engine. 

I also assume you know that a round port RA4 engine would be worth many thousands more than a RA3 D-port engine. 

According to the Wallace engine ID site:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/enginesearch4.htm

366hp 400 manual trans was engine code WS -- Auto trans was YZ

Block was a regular 2-bolt 9790071 casting, just like the non RA engines.

Heads were #48 .


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Yep, worth it's weight in cast iron......


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Only the ws engines got the #48 heads......


----------



## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

ALKYGTO said:


> Only the ws engines got the #48 heads......


Not true, ORIGINAL as assembled '69 WS and YZ engines, both codes of A-body usage '69 RAIII engines! were factory assembled with #48 casting heads. there is no AC, no AC application, anyone parroting that line, typically has had a hand in throwing common #62 casting big valve heads on '69 RAIII block, all in a ruse to "restore" a car. 

Info has come out over the years, that the RAIII engine was delayed in its introduction. From decades of documenting original builds, the first original '69 WS and YZ engines will have original casting dates is the late Oct and early Nov of '68 range. There was a huge push in building and stockpiling these engines, and most ended up in the first (2000) Program content Judges. In the early 90's I rescued a late March of '69 Lakewood built original YZ engine equipped regular production Judge and even it's original engine castings were cast in early Nov of '68.


VALUE WISE, what's something is worth, would depend on several factors of the ORIGINAL engine assembly. Condition has an effect, date cast has an effect. How complete has an effect. 

Typically: 
-Original '69 usage WS's bring quite a bit more than '69 usage YZ's. -Original 7028273 Qjets bring more than original usage Rochestor 7029270's. SR 7029270's are another step down in price. Restamps, an even lower value. 
-3 different distributors were factory installed in '69 RAIII engines. 
-Every low mile, never messed with original '69 Pontiac V8 I have ever examined came with a short ("351" casting) 11 bolt water pump and matching "0 sixty series" wp pulley. The tall "124" casting 11 bolt pumps were introduced on '70 model Pontiacs.


----------



## JimK (Jul 11, 2016)

Thank you all very much for your help. I have been a GM mechanic for years, but am more familiar with the Chevrolet coding. Would anyone be able to explain which codes or casting numbers would be most helpful in accurately identifying this motor? There are many numbers and codes throughout the block and the head. Some main ones that we can see are 686879 WT and 9790071. We had previously been told it was out of a 69, but only few of the numbers match what you all have written. Could it be a different year? Any advice on some tricks to identifying the motor would be helpful. Thank you.


----------



## shelbee350 (Sep 4, 2011)

Are you selling it has a whole or different parts?


----------



## 29585 (Aug 4, 2013)

my best recollection is that Judges came with YZ (auto), WS (manual), or WW (RAiV) blocks. 

the WT is a garden variety GTO block for a manual transmission car. Generally all Manuals came with a W prefix motor while the autos came with a Y prefix. 

A good source of info is Wallace racing as oldskool posted above, or Pontiac Power at this link;

Pontiac Power


----------



## bigD (Jul 21, 2016)

As mentioned, a WT block did not come in a Judge. The 366hp Ram Air 3 engine was the base engine, with the RA 4 as an option. 

A WT came with 350hp engines, with manual trans. But, the Wallace site does show that it came with #48 heads. All other 350hp engines show #62 heads.

Wallace Racing's Pontiac Engine Search

So, I reckin the bottom line is that the WT could have come in a '69 GTO, but NOT a Judge. This is assuming that the online info is correct, and that a WT was not stuck into a Judge, on the assembly line, because a WS was not available and they didn't wanna wait for one. Hey, lots of strange things happened occasionally on the assembly line. Pinion head has run across lots if things that didn't jive with what was SUPPOSED to have come in a car.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

JimK said:


> Thank you all very much for your help. I have been a GM mechanic for years, but am more familiar with the Chevrolet coding. Would anyone be able to explain which codes or casting numbers would be most helpful in accurately identifying this motor? There are many numbers and codes throughout the block and the head. Some main ones that we can see are 686879 WT and 9790071. We had previously been told it was out of a 69, but only few of the numbers match what you all have written. Could it be a different year? Any advice on some tricks to identifying the motor would be helpful. Thank you.


Start with the date code (4 charaters, top center of the block near the distributor) It should be 1 alphabetic [month] followed by 3 numerics (day[2] and year[1]). That will ID the casting date and thus the model year. For example, K278 indicates November[K] 27, 1968 - making it a 1969 engine (the foundry started casting for the next model year around the middle of the previous year). Next, get the block casting number (passenger side rear, below the head, next to where the transmission/bell housing bolts up). That will ID what the engine is. All the stampings on the front of the block tell you from that point are what kind of car it went into (the 2 character Y or W code), the engine sequence number (next to it), and the partial vin of the car it was originally installed in (down low, vertical, next to the edge of the timing cover, passenger side).

Cylinder heads also will have the same format date code on them somewhere. Sometimes it's inside under the rocker covers, sometimes it's outside near the exhaust ports. Original heads won't necessarily have the same exact date code as the engine, but they should be "close".

Bear


----------



## 29585 (Aug 4, 2013)

Ok so looks like everyone here agrees that the WT code did not come in a Judge, unless there was a mistake made on the assembly line as someone posted. This is a manual transmission base model GTO longblock, which are getting harder to find.
So getting back to JimK's question of how much is this WT long block worth? I can tell you a few years ago (2013?) I bought a 1969 WT rotating shortblock, unchecked, untouched for $300. I think it was a good deal at the time, probably was worth 500 but the guy just wanted it gone. So in my humble opinion if this is a date code matching 69 WT longblock with #48 heads that's been crack checked, it could be worth 1200-1500 to someone who needs one for their 69 4spd gto. It wouldn't surprise me to see it sell for more.

I just did a quick search of nationwide craigslist and I found a 69 firebird 400 motor complete asking 1500. 

just my 2 cents worth


----------

