# Noisy roller cam



## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Hey guys
Need some help on camshaft information. Has anyone had bad luck with today’s reproduction cams. I want to go back to a stock ram air iv cam in my 70 GTO ram air iv and eliminate the roller cam in there now. (Hate it) any feedback on brand that’s made in the USA would be very helpful.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Here's one


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Wow but that’s a ram air 3 cam. I need a ram air iv cam. But thank you


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Check with Elgin Performance, they may have one.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

melling cam. i think its a close if not the same specs. its says made in the usa. part number cl-spc-8 . i think the lifters are made in mexico.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Happy1 said:


> Hey guys
> Need some help on camshaft information. Has anyone had bad luck with today’s reproduction cams. I want to go back to a stock ram air iv cam in my 70 GTO ram air iv and eliminate the roller cam in there now. (Hate it) any feedback on brand that’s made in the USA would be very helpful.



As mentioned, the Melling SPC-8 is supposed to be the correct RA IV cam, the same manufacturer who made them for Pontiac. Believe still made in America.

Best lifters seem to be the Johnson hydraulic lifters. Again, OEM supplier for the Pontiac.

Some like to install the Rhodes lifters to tame down the cam to make it more streetable at the lower RPM's. But, they may be a slight bit noisey like having solid lifters. I installed a set in my brother's engine and really could not hear the lifters unless I stuck my head near the valve covers.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> As mentioned, the Melling SPC-8 is supposed to be the correct RA IV cam, the same manufacturer who made them for Pontiac. Believe still made in America.
> 
> Best lifters seem to be the Johnson hydraulic lifters. Again, OEM supplier for the Pontiac.
> 
> Some like to install the Rhodes lifters to tame down the cam to make it more streetable at the lower RPM's. But, they may be a slight bit noisey like having solid lifters. I installed a set in my brother's engine and really could not hear the lifters unless I stuck my head near the valve covers.


+1 on Rhodes lifters, used them on many occasions.


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> As mentioned, the Melling SPC-8 is supposed to be the correct RA IV cam, the same manufacturer who made them for Pontiac. Believe still made in America.
> 
> Best lifters seem to be the Johnson hydraulic lifters. Again, OEM supplier for the Pontiac.
> 
> Some like to install the Rhodes lifters to tame down the cam to make it more streetable at the lower RPM's. But, they may be a slight bit noisey like having solid lifters. I installed a set in my brother's engine and really could not hear the lifters unless I stuck my head near the valve covers.


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Thanks I was wondering if the mellings cam was made in America. Seems like so muck China made junk so it’s hard to wade what hey all of it.


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## Bopman (7 mo ago)

ponchonlefty said:


> melling cam. i think its a close if not the same specs. its says made in the usa. part number cl-spc-8 . i think the lifters are made in mexico.


Have had a mellings in mine since 1982 !


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

the spc-8 is what i bought for my engine combo. 213.00 ebay. paul spotts has a 041 cam 269.00 ebay. i think you can get the cam only for about 150.00. the mellings is the best price.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

For the record, I run a roller, and everyone said how noisy they were. Mine was too... amd my uncle, the original installer, hated it. The valves were all too loose, which had a lot to do with it. Once I got the right profile from Butler and adjusted the valves right, everything was fixed.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What Jim said about Rhodes lifters, especially with a large cam like the ram air 4. It will drive on the street a lot better.
A HUGE issue these days seems to be the lifters. I have heard there are no 'new' lifters being made----only rebuilt ones sold as new from old cores. Saw an Uncle Tony's Garage where he went through 3 sets of lifters from Summit in order to get 16 good ones. Seems that the foot gets ground flat and not convex, and also not re-hardened, and the bores are honed, but only stock pistons are available...so they bleed down. You can tell by filling with oil and depressing the plunger. If oil squirts out past the sides of the plunger, it's a bad lifter. Also, if you set it foot down on a piece of glass and it doesn't rock, it's a bad lifter. I'm running 40+ year old cams and lifters in both my Pontiacs with no issues...if I were building a new Pontiac engine, I would source NOS lifters off the internet if possible and just pay the price. 
Getting quality parts these days, particularly camshaft related, is really a challenge, and it sucks, because it's the heart of the engine.


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## ‘Vid (9 mo ago)

geeteeohguy said:


> ...if I were building a new Pontiac engine, I would source NOS lifters off the internet if possible and just pay the price.


I’m lucky enough to have a set to use for my upcoming build. I bought a set of Erson hydraulic lifters about 14 years ago from a SoCal gearhead on Craigslist that was selling a bunch of leftover Pontiac stuff. He said he bought them in the early 80’s and never used them. There’s no date on the box but based on the look of the graphic design the printer used, it’s probably spot on. The box is beat but after careful inspection the lifters, particularly the mating surfaces, they’re still as good as brand new.

I took your advice and did the “glass test” and they all are as convex as Dolly Parton, haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

‘Vid said:


> I’m lucky enough to have a set to use for my upcoming build. I bought a set of Erson hydraulic lifters about 14 years ago from a SoCal gearhead on Craigslist that was selling a bunch of leftover Pontiac stuff. He said he bought them in the early 80’s and never used them. There’s no date on the box but based on the look of the graphic design the printer used, it’s probably spot on. The box is beat but after careful inspection the lifters, particularly the mating surfaces are still as good as brand new.
> 
> I took your advice and did the “glass test” and they all are as convex as Dolly Parton, haha.
> 
> ...


I have been running the same Sig Erson cam and lifters in the 389 that's in my '65 GTO for the past 42 years and 50,000+ miles with ZERO issues. Good stuff when America was America....


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## ‘Vid (9 mo ago)

geeteeohguy said:


> I have been running the same Sig Erson cam and lifters in the 389 that's in my '65 GTO for the past 42 years and 50,000+ miles with ZERO issues. Good stuff when America was America....
> View attachment 156646


I liked their cams. Not sure if they’re even around anymore? I had a ‘70 Nova with a 302, 4 speed and a Sig solid lifter cam. Lots of fun. We rebuilt my son’s late 70’s SBC 4x4 truck and I remember I put a TQ20 hyd in it, perfect cam for the application. Made a sh*t ton of low end torque. Never tried one in a Pontiac but I don’t know why not.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

They're long gone....went from 'Sig Erson' to "Erson" in the late '80's, and then swallowed up. The one in my 389 works well with 3.36-3.55 rear gears, headers, 11:1 CR and a 4 speed. It's single pattern with a 106 lobe center, plenty choppy. These days, a bit 'too' rowdy for my taste, but runs so well I don't see myself changing it out for a more mild and likely poorly made and defective cam.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

1968 68 1969 69 1970 70 GTO JUDGE FIREBIRD TRANS AM RAM AIR II IV NOS CAM LIFTER | eBay 
Are we there yet?


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## Bopman (7 mo ago)

ponchonlefty said:


> the spc-8 is what i bought for my engine combo. 213.00 ebay. paul spotts has a 041 cam 269.00 ebay. i think you can get the cam only for about 150.00. the mellings is the best price.





RMTZ67 said:


> 1968 68 1969 69 1970 70 GTO JUDGE FIREBIRD TRANS AM RAM AIR II IV NOS CAM LIFTER | eBay
> Are we there yet?


Above my pay grade ! 😂😉👍


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

So what roller cam and lifters do you have, and are you sure it is not an adjustment problem? No secret though that many of the hydraulic roller lifters make much more noise than they should. Comp has now brought out a "cartridge" lifter that they claim will solve the problem. Their first design was bad, their improved second design wasn't much better, and now we'll see how the new product preforms. I've had much better luck with the hydraulic roller lifters made by Johnson and Hylift Johnson sourced through Butler.

If the springs were set up properly for a roller cam then they will have too much pressure for a hydraulic flat tappet cam. Won't be any problems at first but the increased load on the lobes/lifters will eventually lead to failure.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Does this seem too loud for a roller cam, ignore the oil pressure it's good now idk what was with it that day?rocker noise oil pressure


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

This after I slightly tightened a couple of rockers.rockers after adjusting


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Baaad65 said:


> This after I slightly tightened a couple of rockers.rockers after adjusting


it sounds loud to me. do you think it makes that clicking because of the bar connecting the lifters?i have never had an aftermarket roller cam.but the chevies that i do have don't make any noise. but they are factory.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Idk, Butler built the motor and I swapped in the 1.65 rockers. Seems louder on the drivers side but it runs lights out, now I'm using Driven HR 10w40 on the recommendation of Driven and Butler, suppose I could try 15w50 but I don't know the bearing clearances so I'm sticking with what they said. I was running Rotella 15W40 and it sounded the same.


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## ‘Vid (9 mo ago)

Happy1 said:


> Thanks I was wondering if the mellings cam was made in America. Seems like so muck China made junk so it’s hard to wade what hey all of it.


Nice to see that Howards Cams ship in a box that says “100% American Made”. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> ...and I swapped in the 1.65 rockers...


 Yes, lots of clatter but might not be the fault of the lifters. Did you clearance the pushrod holes for the 1.65's?


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

lust4speed said:


> Yes, lots of clatter but might not be the fault of the lifters. Did you clearance the pushrod holes for the 1.65's?


i agree, when you switch to 1.65 rockers you have to elongate the pushrod holes.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

lust4speed said:


> Yes, lots of clatter but might not be the fault of the lifters. Did you clearance the pushrod holes for the 1.65's?


Yes Butler did and made sure the springs would accept 1.65 rockers, I have the head build sheet from them. I followed the directions from Scorpion and Butler when installing them but maybe they need to be tightened down some more now, that was almost two years ago. And they used Lunati lifters in 2014 when it was built.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

IMO, Aluminum rockers would definitely settle in significantly, after break in


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

What if I adjust them while the motors idling hot until it quiets down, not what the directions say or just re adjust per the directions maybe after it's hot ?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

The lifter part # is LUN-72334-16 foot notes says they are manufactured by Morel, rockers are the Race version, push rods are # SBR-5116-8550-16 8.550 x.116 x 5/16" Smith Brothers chrome moly custom.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> The lifter part # is LUN-72334-16 foot notes says they are manufactured by Morel, rockers are the Race version, push rods are # SBR-5116-8550-16 8.550 x.116 x 5/16" Smith Brothers chrome moly custom.


I use Morel lifters


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Baaad65 said:


> This after I slightly tightened a couple of rockers.rockers after adjusting


How did you go about adjusting them? I agree that sounds a lot noisier than it should be for a hydraulic valve train.

Bear


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> What if I adjust them while the motors idling hot until it quiets down, not what the directions say or just re adjust per the directions maybe after it's hot ?


I would just adjust while running and warmed up. Have a vacuum gauge hooked up while doing so.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

BearGFR said:


> How did you go about adjusting them? I agree that sounds a lot noisier than it should be for a hydraulic valve train.
> 
> Bear


Following the directions from Scorpion and Butler, they said rotate crank until exhaust valve just starts to move open on said cylinder then adjust the intake to zero lash plus a 1/2 to 3/4 turn (I did 5/8) ,lock down the set screw while holding the nut in place then give the nut a little tap tight with the end wrench to lock it in. Then repeat procedure for the exhaust valve.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Also thanks Happy1 for letting me butt in I don't mean to derail your thread but I just thought I have somewhat of the same problem 🤝


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Probably not your problem but your procedure is off a little. You are correct on adjusting the intake valve, but the exhaust valve needs to be set by allowing the intake to open and almost close completely.

Also be a little careful in just cranking the valves down farther. If you adjust too tight the valve hangs open and you can torch both valve and valve seat. I've seen exhaust valves where it looked like someone took a plasma cutter and made a cut into the edge of the valve.

Everyone has their own procedure for insuring the set screw doesn't loosen. I prefer to use a little more preload than what was recommended. If I am using a half turn preload and starting at say 12:00 o'clock, then I have the set screw make contact with the stud at about 4:00 and use the remainder of the arc to set the screw. If you feel 4:00 contact position gives too much preload and you have to twist too hard to complete the arc then just adjust to a 4:30 starting point or whatever feels right.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

lust4speed said:


> Probably not your problem but your procedure is off a little. You are correct on adjusting the intake valve, but the exhaust valve needs to be set by allowing the intake to open and almost close completely.
> 
> Also be a little careful in just cranking the valves down farther. If you adjust too tight the valve hangs open and you can torch both valve and valve seat. I've seen exhaust valves where it looked like someone took a plasma cutter and made a cut into the edge of the valve.
> 
> Everyone has their own procedure for insuring the set screw doesn't loosen. I prefer to use a little more preload than what was recommended. If I am using a half turn preload and starting at say 12:00 o'clock, then I have the set screw make contact with the stud at about 4:00 and use the remainder of the arc to set the screw. If you feel 4:00 contact position gives too much preload and you have to twist too hard to complete the arc then just adjust to a 4:30 starting point or whatever feels right.


So if you don't think this is the problem why is it louder than normal in your opinion? On the procedure then the exhaust is different than the intake I guess to make sure you're completely on the back side of the lobe? That's interesting because I thought the directions from Scorpion were the same for both valves, I'll have to check them again. It runs great with 15 inches of vacuum just noisy and seems more from the drivers side. And the procedure you described is that with the motor hot or cold? And what about adjusting them while running with a vacuum gauge like Army suggested?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

When I adjusted mine with a vacuum gauge, I was able to go from 14hg to 18hg.

Yeah, you're turning and listening, but the vac gauge is a nice reference. 

Are you sure that none of your poly's are in contact with the VC? Ive seen that too, and then the valve cover acts like a stethescope, amplifying the sound of the valvetrain.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> When I adjusted mine with a vacuum gauge, I was able to go from 14hg to 18hg.
> 
> Yeah, you're turning and listening, but the vac gauge is a nice reference.
> 
> Are you sure that none of your poly's are in contact with the VC? Ive seen that too, and then the valve cover acts like a stethescope, amplifying the sound of the valvetrain.


Looking in the breather hole it looks like I have about a 1/4" of clearance, so I guess you keep going from rocker to rocker until it gets quiet because how do you know which ones are the noisy ones with 16 of them? And when the vacuum drops that's too tight so back it off is that correct?


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Look at the inside of your valve cover for any indication of contact. Those covers are usually tall enough to be fine -- but there is no fatter and taller rocker arm than the Scorpions. I've had those hit when changing to any other brand gave enough clearance.

The acceptable lash range with hydraulic lifters is really forgiving so it pretty much negates whether the engine is cold or operating temperature. With mechanical lifters a .006" change from cold to hot can make a big difference, but with hydraulic lifters having a comfortable operating range of .030" to .060" and you are sitting in the middle of that range it doesn't really matter that much if you set them cold.

Here is an excerpt on adjusting hydraulic lifters from a Dragzine article. I found the same procedure in the old Crane and Comp catalogs except they referenced allowing the intake valve to travel farther closed. The new catalog seems to agree with the below article so guess I'll slightly alter my procedure. Also I really don't like spinning the pushrod because it's harder to feel the point of zero lash, and for me I find that moving the pushrod sideways in the cup while gently screwing down the adjusting nut allows a better feel when all slack has been removed. Whatever works best for you.

When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the first cylinder in the firing order, adjust the intake valve by loosening the adjusting nut slightly while spinning the pushrod until you feel lash in the rocker arm. Tighten the adjusting nut until the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. Lightly turn the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, and you should feel a point where there is a little resistance (this is called Zero Lash). Turn the adjusting nut ½-turn past this point, giving you optimal pre-load for the rocker arm, pushrod and lifter. According to Newman, “you should look for .030-.060 of preload in a typical hydraulic Lifter.” Follow this procedure by carefully adjusting each intake valve according to cylinder firing order.
When all of the intake valves have been set to the proper valve lash, you can adjust the exhaust valves. Utilizing the same procedure as with the intake valves, you need to turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up and rotates past maximum lift. Now the exhaust valve can be adjusted. When all of the intake and exhaust valves have been set with the proper lash, it is common for all the top engine builders to perform a double check by rotating the engine and checking each valve again, starting from the first cylinder in the firing order.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ok good stuff, I just talked to a tech at Scorpion and he said they are noisy and thinks it's the bearings in aluminum rockers. He said with the fine thread stud you're not moving very much on a turn so I could try tightening them down one whole turn of pre-load and see how it sounds, if still noisy I'm leaving it alone.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....also another note when I went to tweak the drivers side this spring to maybe eliminate some noise all the push rods still had zero lash with the valve closed so I don't think anything loosened up. The aluminum rockers have steel cups and rollers so no aluminum is on steel causing wear in, and the tech said aluminum heads can change a little when hot but iron heads won't.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

One full turn on a 7/16" rocker stud is .050" -- or really close to maximum adjustment with normal range of a standard hydraulic roller lifter. Most lifters will be fine with a full turn from zero lash but you wouldn't want to add another turn on an adjusting nut that is already 3/4 turn down. Just want to be clear that you would want to start fresh from zero lash.

Also a lot of lifters are advertised as tight-lash racing lifters and these shouldn't be adjusted tighter than 1/4 turn since their travel is so limited. Just need to check on the specs of your installed lifters. Don't take the word of the Scorpion tech if he didn't know the brand and model of your lifter.

Lifters like these would get very upset if they were cranked down too far:
Johnson High Performance Hydraulic Roller Lifter Set JLI-2112OPR-16
(0) Reviews: Write first review
Description: Johnson Lifters, Pontiac Lifter Set, Hi-Perf Hydraulic Roller, 326-455, Set/16 *Hi-Perf lifters have .093" of Travel / Preload= 0 Lash + 1/8-1/4 Turn*


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

lust4speed said:


> One full turn on a 7/16" rocker stud is .050" -- or really close to maximum adjustment with normal range of a standard hydraulic roller lifter. Most lifters will be fine with a full turn from zero lash but you wouldn't want to add another turn on an adjusting nut that is already 3/4 turn down. Just want to be clear that you would want to start fresh from zero lash.
> 
> Also a lot of lifters are advertised as tight-lash racing lifters and these shouldn't be adjusted tighter than 1/4 turn since their travel is so limited. Just need to check on the specs of your installed lifters. Don't take the word of the Scorpion tech if he didn't know the brand and model of your lifter.
> 
> ...


Ok, no I would start over...they are Lunati with a note on Butler's site that says made by Morel. Also I see that procedure calls for all the intakes then all the exhaust, I think I did intake and exhaust on each cylinder instead so don't know if that has any effect?


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

It might seem just a little noisy.. I am assuming you have a solid roller cam? It should sound like a sewing machine.. They will always make some noise. They typically have a "hot" lash.. Mine is .020" for the intake and .022" for the exhaust. It's that lash that makes the noise. If you have one of the newer hydraulic rollers then yes, it should be pretty quiet.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ok, it's a Butler/Comp billet roller cam.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> when the vacuum drops that's too tight so back it off is that correct?


Yes, but Im not implying to set them with vacuum, it's just a nice reference. When we ran into a touchy valve on my engine, we had it set right, or so we thought, then hooked up a vac gauge... loosened the valve and watched the vac rise!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Ok good stuff, I just talked to a tech at Scorpion and he said they are noisy and thinks it's the bearings in aluminum rockers. He said with the fine thread stud you're not moving very much on a turn so I could try tightening them down one whole turn of pre-load and see how it sounds, if still noisy I'm leaving it alone.


It's that exact operation, that I monitor with a vac gauge. Give your one full turn, and see if the vac drops.


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

lust4speed said:


> So what roller cam and lifters do you have, and are you sure it is not an adjustment problem? No secret though that many of the hydraulic roller lifters make much more noise than they should. Comp has now brought out a "cartridge" lifter that they claim will solve the problem. Their first design was bad, their improved second design wasn't much better, and now we'll see how the new product preforms. I've had much better luck with the hydraulic roller lifters made by Johnson and Hylift Johnson sourced through Butler.
> 
> If the springs were set up properly for a roller cam then they will have too much pressure for a hydraulic flat tappet cam. Won't be any problems at first but the increased load on the lobes/lifters will eventually lead to failure.


It’s a custom grind that Kauffman racing installed and lunati lifters if that helps.


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Also thanks Happy1 for letting me butt in I don't mean to derail your thread but I just thought I have somewhat of the same problem 🤝


No worries


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## flatbill (Oct 5, 2020)

Happy1 said:


> No worries


Morel hydraulic rollers are notorious for being noisy. Also many cam sellers use Morel hydraulic roller lifters. Lots of chatter on other Pontiac boards. Many have much better results with real "Johnson" or "Hylift Johnson" hydraulic roller lifters.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

So if I pull the covers and the pushrods are still at zero lash then it's probably not worth my time cranking the nuts down a little extra?


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## Rockinindian (Aug 5, 2021)

Happy1 said:


> Hey guys
> Need some help on camshaft information. Has anyone had bad luck with today’s reproduction cams. I want to go back to a stock ram air iv cam in my 70 GTO ram air iv and eliminate the roller cam in there now. (Hate it) any feedback on brand that’s made in the USA would be very helpful.


You should be able to give the specs to an engine builder who grinds their own cams.


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## Rockinindian (Aug 5, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> So if I pull the covers and the pushrods are still at zero lash then it's probably not worth my time cranking the nuts down a little extra?


Unless your running a big camshaft stick to stock quality brand (a brand that’s been around for eons) I’ve had the same issue in the past stock to mild grinds with high performance lifters made for extremely high rev motors their noisy .


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Rockinindian said:


> Unless your running a big camshaft stick to stock quality brand (a brand that’s been around for eons) I’ve had the same issue in the past stock to mild grinds with high performance lifters made for extremely high rev motors their noisy .


It's a Butler/Comp cam from 2014 and I swapped in the 1.65 rockers.


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## Herding Goats (Sep 16, 2017)

flatbill said:


> Morel hydraulic rollers are notorious for being noisy. Also many cam sellers use Morel hydraulic roller lifters. Lots of chatter on other Pontiac boards. Many have much better results with real "Johnson" or "Hylift Johnson" hydraulic roller lifters.


Replaced my Morels with Johnson Lifters (not Hylift but the other) and much happier. The Johnson Lifters are made in USA, not sure about the others. The original noise problem may have been incorrect preload but I never checked it as I changed the cam and a bunch of other things. Also I noted on a different thread where where my rockers were hitting the valve covers until I rotated the valve covers 180 degrees (high lift cam). Not repros but the later 490027 covers with drippers. As @geeteeohguy said lifters are a general problem for all sorts of engines right now. Been making these forever and now no one can! And in my opinion, the roller cam upgrade, like any mod, needs some dialing in. For example the recommended preload from Buttler (where I purchased my Johnson Lifters) and the manufacturer's tech guy (Joe is great to talk with) was significantly different. Anytime you change things it creates opportunity for additional tuning needs. Still if OP has an original RAIV engine, I would keep it original / flat tappet. @PontiacJim is on to something with the Melling.


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## flatbill (Oct 5, 2020)

Herding Goats said:


> Replaced my Morels with Johnson Lifters (not Hylift but the other) and much happier. The Johnson Lifters are made in USA, not sure about the others. The original noise problem may have been incorrect preload but I never checked it as I changed the cam and a bunch of other things. Also I noted on a different thread where where my rockers were hitting the valve covers until I rotated the valve covers 180 degrees (high lift cam). Not repros but the later 490027 covers with drippers. As @geeteeohguy said lifters are a general problem for all sorts of engines right now. Been making these forever and now no one can! And in my opinion, the roller cam upgrade, like any mod, needs some dialing in. For example the recommended preload from Buttler (where I purchased my Johnson Lifters) and the manufacturer's tech guy (Joe is great to talk with) was significantly different. Anytime you change things it creates opportunity for additional tuning needs. Still if OP has an original RAIV engine, I would keep it original / flat tappet. @PontiacJim is on to something with the Melling.


I am running a very mild Lunati Voodoo roller cam, 211/219 @.050. About .510/.515 lift on a 112 LSA. I use Scorpion Race full roller rockers and I installed new pushrods to get the proper pattern on the valve tips. I had to radius the corners of a few rockers to clear the sand cast Offy valve covers at the areas where the valve cover bolts intrude on the inside of the valve cover. I also use some 5/16 thick valve cover gaskets made of some kind of rubber with a metal insert. I adjust the poly locks to set the lifter piston a little below half of the piston travel in the lifter body. I have run the engine about 4 times to get things dialed in. I have not driven the car yet. Everything is smooth and the Hylift Johnson hydraulic roller lifters are perfectly quiet. Billk


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Herding Goats said:


> Replaced my Morels with Johnson Lifters (not Hylift but the other) and much happier. The Johnson Lifters are made in USA, not sure about the others. The original noise problem may have been incorrect preload but I never checked it as I changed the cam and a bunch of other things. Also I noted on a different thread where where my rockers were hitting the valve covers until I rotated the valve covers 180 degrees (high lift cam). Not repros but the later 490027 covers with drippers. As @geeteeohguy said lifters are a general problem for all sorts of engines right now. Been making these forever and now no one can! And in my opinion, the roller cam upgrade, like any mod, needs some dialing in. For example the recommended preload from Buttler (where I purchased my Johnson Lifters) and the manufacturer's tech guy (Joe is great to talk with) was significantly different. Anytime you change things it creates opportunity for additional tuning needs. Still if OP has an original RAIV engine, I would keep it original / flat tappet. @PontiacJim is on to something with the Melling.


When you went to Johnson lifters from the Moral lifters did you have to change the pushrods?


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## Herding Goats (Sep 16, 2017)

Happy1 said:


> When you went to Johnson lifters from the Moral lifters did you have to change the pushrods?


Yes, looking at my build sheets, the Morels were installed with Comp Cams #7731-16 (8.425"). Those were changed to Comp Cams #7775-16 (8.650") for the Johnson Lifters. According to Butler's Lifter specs Johnsons have a shorter seat height. My Morels were from 2019 (before the 2021 update) so that may be why the numbers don't add up exactly. ie I am not sure if the 7731 would be correct for the 2021 Morels. BTW thanks for the question, looking at this made me realize I never got those back from the shop...!


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## Happy1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Hey guys just to let you know what I did to fix my issue. Replaced all lifters with Johnson roller lifters and noise is gone. Car even has more power on low end and never run so good as now. Thanks for all your input and advice. I hope this helps someone else. Oh and Butler was great thru all this.


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