# 69 GTO Water Pump



## Okies69 (Mar 19, 2017)

Hello I am struggling to find a water pump for my 69 GTO 400 V8. It is a early production so it has a 4" hub height. I come to find out that this pump is now a obsolescent part. I called Ames Perf. and they may have a option buy the end of April. I am hoping maybe one of my GTO brothers may know a option I can explore, as I don't want to wait that long. Thanks


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Does your '69 have it's original casting WP? does it still have its cast impeller? If the casting is not heavily rust pocked, it can be properly rebuilt with correct cast impeller. have another run of WP rebuilds coming up. Am sorry, but dont stock generic replacement casting pumps.


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## Okies69 (Mar 19, 2017)

It does have cast impeller I know that. and It only has 30799 A - stamped in it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Okies69,

Pinion Head rebuilt my water pump and turned it around very quickly (he was ready to rebuild a batch), I too have a 4" hub. I would recommend him for your rebuild. Dan


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

the above pump is a parts store '69 replacement pump from the 70's/80's/90's.

Of note, since Ames cant get their listing right...
*All original '69 Pontiac V8 water pumps were of the "short" 11 bolt design.* 
-Have documented multiple low mile late build '69 Pontiacs having their original date coded "short" style 11 bolt pumps. 
-The first "tall" 11 bolt pump wasn't even cast till mid Summer of '69, & those first "124" casting pumps went on the first '70 model Pontiacs built in late August '69. 
-Late production '69 Firebirds built up into Nov '69 continued to use the "short" 11 bolt pump. There were tight fan clearance issues on the Birds esp when the Pontiac 400 was specced with the 5 blade factory flex fan, this precluded the factory use of the 1/2" taller "124" casting pump.
-By mid '70, Pontiac dealership service departments began substituting the "124" casting "tall" water pumps along with corresponding water pump pulley when '69 Pontiac V8 A, B, G series needed water pumps replaced. 

On generic casting Pontiac pumps, have disassembled a few, to see what was going on with back side of cast impeller. Most generic Pontiac pumps don't even have a cast impeller. For those that have had cast impellers, its been intersting to see what the aftermarket mfg used, as there were at least 5 specific impellers used in '63-81 original Pontiac water pumps. On the above aftermarket pump, can't guarantee the bearing insert is a std size, not something I would rebuild.


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## Okies69 (Mar 19, 2017)

thanks you for the info... I was incorrect after another look last night i found that it is NOT a cast impeller. So now don't even have a good core. Not sure what to do now. I had some one suggest converting to the "tall" pump buy changing all my acc. mounting and crank pully.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Okies69 said:


> thanks you for the info... I was incorrect after another look last night i found that it is NOT a cast impeller. So now don't even have a good core. Not sure what to do now. I had some one suggest converting to the "tall" pump buy changing all my acc. mounting and crank pully.


To convert to the "tall" 11 bolt wp, you will only need to convert to the correct wp pulley. Does your '69 engine have power steering? If so, it should have a "900" or "901" PS pump pulley. Those are last 3 digits of part number inscribed on the face of the PS pulley. If so, the engine will have an "846" crank pulley, or a stack of "842" & "843" crank pulleys (factory AC). If factory non AC with PS, with previous mentioned pulley numbers, will need a "127" wp pulley to go with "tall" 11 bolt wp.


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## Okies69 (Mar 19, 2017)

It does have factory AC and PS. I see there are two crank pullys one for AC and the other that aligns with water pump pully and powers ALT. and PS. If i switch crank pully to match the "tall "pump wont i need to change the mounting of the ALT. and PS pump. as the belt would be a half inch off


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

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Okies69 said:


> It does have factory AC and PS. I see there are two crank pullys one for AC and the other that aligns with water pump pully and powers ALT. and PS. *If i switch crank pully to match the "tall "pump wont i need to change the mounting of the ALT. and PS pump. as the belt would be a half inch off*]


To go to the "tall" 11 bolt water pump with '69 accessories, the crank pulley(s) doesn't change, just the water pump pulley & pump. To go with "tall" 11 bolt pump, you will need a "128" or "130" water pump pulley. neither are reproduced. Both are smaller diameter, designed for AC applications, just have a different stagger than the original '69 model "062" short 11 bolt wp pulley.


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## artsponticone (Jul 3, 2018)

I have the same problem, changing to the 4.5 water with just a deeper pulley. 
Butler quoted me about 120 for the pulley.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

artsponticone said:


> I have the same problem, changing to the 4.5 water with just a deeper pulley.
> Butler quoted me about 120 for the pulley.


I'd bet 120 is for some silly machined aluminum wp pulley...need to ck Butlers website. 

if your '69 is factory non AC, and has PS, can supply the correct original style pulley for 1/2 that, to swap over to the "tall" style 11 bolt pump. Shipped one out today with a nice 11 bolt TC /pulley /bracket conversion changeover, and have two more of that particular Pontiac wp pulley. Need an original "short style" 11 bolt wp ('69 only usage), have another one freshly rebuilt with correct cast impeller, or can rebuild your original casting pump in the next pump build session.


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## ajluzi1957 (Mar 22, 2017)

If you are going the non original route, I bough an aluminum machined pulley from cvf racing for $86 that was a replacement for 9799128 which I could not locate at the time I replaced mine


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## 69matadored (May 23, 2018)

*water pump*

I had the same issue as my engine is an early 69, Butler Eng. sells the 4'' water pump like the original, then you can use your original pulleys


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

69matadored said:


> I had the same issue as my engine is an early 69, Butler Eng. sells the 4'' water pump like the original, then you can use your original pulleys


...Unless you have a factory A/C car and want to 'upgrade' to an SFI-rated balancer. None of them have the chamfer that allows the A/C compressor drive pulley to fit, so you have to convert to the 'big car' crank pulley stack. Then the fun begins...

Bear


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## 69matadored (May 23, 2018)

*69 water pump*

Butler Eng.sells the 4'' pump for under $100 ,Ames does not.
you can re-use your stock pulleys if you stay with the 4''


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

69matadored said:


> Butler Eng.sells the 4'' pump for under $100 ,Ames does not.
> you can re-use your stock pulleys if you stay with the 4''


Only if you have a non-factory A/C car, or a factory A/C car and are keeping the factory harmonic balancer. If you are also upgrading to an SFI-rated balancer, as I said in my previous post, none of them have the chamfer around that outer edge like the factory balancer does that is necessary to allow the A/C compressor drive pulley to be installed. The outer rim of the A/C drive pulley will interfere with the outer edge of the balancer, preventing it from seating against the front face of the balancer. You either have to change the whole crank pulley stack to one from a full size car, which moves all three crank pulleys forward from where they were on 'short snout' cars with factory A/C, or you have to give up your A/C and make a spacer to put behind the other crank pulley to make up for it not being there. Once you change the crank pulley stack, you're in for a real fun experience getting everything to line up correctly. No 'big cars' were built with short snout pumps, so you have to change "everything else" including the pump to have a prayer of making it all work.

Bear


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