# where do I start?



## ho67rag (Jul 23, 2012)

newby here just found this site seems to be a wealth of info. I'm doing an off the frame resto on my 67 GTO. But my engine is trash. It's a WT-360hp blockI
m wanting to know best route to find another # matching block,and what criteria do I go by to determine the correct one.Does the build date have to be within a certain period of the build date of the car etc.Does the correct motor have a big influence on the value of the car or not?:confused


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Welcome to the forum, In early 67 Pontiac started recording the engine unit number on the billing history and around mid year they added part of the cars VIN to the front of the block next to the water pump housing. If you change motors the car is no longer considered numbers matching.

What is wrong with your current WT block?


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

What do you mean by "trashed"? It may cost a little more to save your original block with some creative machining but it will be more valuable in the long run to keep your car matching #'s.

Some other members on here can recommend engine rebuilders that could give you a better idea if your engine can be saved. :cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Howdy and welcome.
First off, where you start isn't as important as starting somewhere and not quitting on it. If you're really going to do a frame off, make sure that you fully understand how much work is involved, how long it's going to take, and how expensive it's going to be. For example - just this past November I finished a frame off on my 69. Elapsed time start to finish -- about 25 years. Cost? easily double what the car would ever sell for.
More of these cars die the death of disassembly and abandonment than anything else, and that's a fact.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, just make sure you know what's involved.

First order of business is for you to decide why. Are you building the car for yourself to enjoy, or are you building it as sort of an investment? If it's the former, then do whatever you want to it and make no apologies - don't worry about resale value. That's the route I took on my 69 because I did it for me and never plan to sell it. Doing a car for resale is valid too, if that's your thing. Just be aware that especially in the current market, you'll never be able to recoup what it's going to cost you. If you want an investment 99% of the time you'll be way ahead buying a car that's already done, enjoying it for awhile, then selling it.

Most of the time, to maximize resale value it's usually best to stay as original as possible.

Ok, you say the engine is trash. What's wrong with it? If it's an early 67 then there's not really any such thing as a numbers matching block for 67 because that's before Pontiac started putting vin stamps on the blocks. So if you want to be able to say it's "all original" for resale purposes all you really have to do is find a block (and heads and intake if you need them) that have date codes in a reasonable range of when your car was built, the right casting numbers, and the proper two character block code. Of course it won't _actually_ be all original if you do that but no one will be able to tell. That's up to how honest you want to be about it.

If you're building the car for you, then the sky's the limit. In that case you need to decide what you want the car to be and how you're going to use it. Strictly show? Street only? Street/strip? Pure race car? Local cruiser or highway miles? Each of those choices will tend to send your build in different directions.

There's a lot of experience here on the forum, and something I like about most of the folks here is that we'll shy away from telling you what you "should" do until we know more about what you want. You're the one who'll be spending the cash, so you get to make the choices.

Bear


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## MO Goat (Apr 7, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> ...and how expensive it's going to be.


Yep!!!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Unless the block is cracked from freezing, there isn't much that can't be repaired.
The blocks ARE specific to the car by the engine assembly number, noted on the PHS. Even if it doesn't have the VIN stamp the assembly number does indicate if it's original.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

How expensive= whatever you estimate x 3.....and worth every cent!!! welcome. Eric:cheers


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Have buddy that sleeved all 8 of his cylinders. And that engine run like a top with no problems.. Just how bad is yours??


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## pontiac (Mar 6, 2011)

my 67 PHS docs have no engine assembly no. shown, so that does not confirm if numbers matching.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

pontiac said:


> my 67 PHS docs have no engine assembly no. shown, so that does not confirm if numbers matching.


The engine unit number is on the small sheet titled "1967 Car Billing History". It is the 6 digit number between the ignition key code and the exterior color code.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

BearGFR said:


> If it's an early 67 then there's not really any such thing as a numbers matching block for 67 because that's before Pontiac started putting vin stamps on the blocks. Bear


I respectfully disagree, here is the PHS billing history for a December 66 built 67 GTO which the engine unit number matches the number on the front of the block next to the engine's letter code; I've matched several early 67 GTOs over the years.












Too Many Projects said:


> The engine unit number is on the small sheet titled "1967 Car Billing History". It is the 6 digit number between the ignition key code and the exterior color code.


:agree


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Thanks Randy. I didn't have a pic of my sheet to show him.


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