# MT flywheel bolt; washers or not?



## ibarbuckle (Feb 24, 2014)

The engine didn't have them on it. The parts manual doesn't show them, but the ARP kit has 3/32 thick solid washers in it. Should I use them or not? I'm worried the extra protrusion will make the bolt heads contact the clutch plate.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Original bolts had external star lock washers on them. I've not installed the flat washers with aftermarket bolts, I re-use the originals or buy new, if they are missing. Hardware stores have the external lock washers.


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## ibarbuckle (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

ibarbuckle said:


> The engine didn't have them on it. The parts manual doesn't show them, but the ARP kit has 3/32 thick solid washers in it. Should I use them or not? I'm worried the extra protrusion will make the bolt heads contact the clutch plate.


LESSON LEARNED: Make sure you use the correct bolts with the thinner heads. There are 2 different types. I installed the bolts with thicker heads which I believe is for the automatic flywheel. I used all new parts including the flywheel bolts, but when I bought the flywheel (I think it is Hays) on line, there was no mention of what bolts to use, so I just ordered "new" flywheel bolts from another source.

I installed a carbon fiber clutch disc and was told that it would have a different sound when it was released/slipped. So I had this funny "whine" just at the point of full release and did not think much about it. When I pulled the engine/trans down, I saw quickly what that "whine" was. My flywheels bolts were hitting the center springs on the clutch disc. Ground down some of the bolt material and ground into the springs -see attached photo, this is at 20,000 miles on it.

I now have a set of Mr. Gasket flywheel bolts part#914 which are the thinner heads needed for the manual trans flywheel. The kit has no washers. I will use some Lock-Tite on them.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

One habit I developed many years ago after installing a disc backwards, is to put the disc against the flywheel and make sure it turns by hand. If it rocks or hangs up on the bolts, it's an easier fix than after it's all together. I push hard enough that I can feel the disc dragging on the flywheel surface.


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## ibarbuckle (Feb 24, 2014)

Now you guys have me paranoid. 

This is what I have: ARP 290-2802










And the diagram from Pontiac. Note the lack of washers.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

ibarbuckle said:


> Now you guys have me paranoid.
> 
> This is what I have: ARP 290-2802


They should be fine but I still use the lock washer instead of their flats. You can use the flat with a drop of thread-locker too. 
If in doubt, install 3 of them dry and do the disc test I outlined above. If nothing touches, you are good to go.


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## ibarbuckle (Feb 24, 2014)

Everything you ever wanted to know about fasteners:

Information related to bolted joints

Worth a look.

It seems companies are assuming you will use thread lock or a nylon insert nut, and don't use lock washers anymore.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I wouldn't use ARP on anything if I could help it. Factory stuff only, even used. ARP fasteners tend to be too long and out of specs for our engines, resulting in leaking cylinder heads, clutch clearance issues, etc. Total catastrophic failures. No thank you.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Too Many Projects said:


> One habit I developed many years ago after installing a disc backwards, is to put the disc against the flywheel and make sure it turns by hand. If it rocks or hangs up on the bolts, it's an easier fix than after it's all together. I push hard enough that I can feel the disc dragging on the flywheel surface.


Good point. I did not do this, and if I had, maybe I might have caught it. I can't recall if the disc did this right away or if it was a little after it began to wear down. Most discs are labelled with a sticker or some marking as to which side goes to the flywheel. So I looked at a clutch installation diagram and looked at my disc again, I got it right as I thought I had, so the disc was not installed backward. The carbon fiber disc does not have the thickness of a standard composite disc (seemed about 1/2 the thickness) and I recall mentioning that to the machinist who recommended it as I thought it would wear out quicker. He told me they didn't have as much material, but wore much better and lasted longer under high-performance use. He had a drag Nova he ran one in. So I went with it. No complaints, but at 20,000 miles, I don't think it would have made it to 50,000 miles before being worn out, but my car was hard on it as I had 3.23's and tall tires, so it took some slipping to get it rolling from a dead stop.


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