# 64 Lemans rear end advice needed.



## 64Lemans1 (Jul 18, 2018)

Ok Guy's, looking for advice to replace my 8.2 10 bolt, it is a stock posi with 3:55 gears. Build is a 461, It was not dyno ed so without getting beat up Bulter said the output should be around 530HP 600ft/lbs. That being said I not going to be a bracket racer but might run it some day or want to launch it off the line in a street race or for a burn out without carnage. It is a 4 speed car so it hits pretty hard. The rear end in there needs total going through. Posi needs replacing. would like to get to around 3.00 to 3.25 for gears. Axles would need to be replaced with stronger unit. not worried about brakes as I will be doing a disc conversion at the same time. So lets hear it Ford 9, 12 bolt or Dana.


----------



## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

The easiest is a 12-bolt. I put a '66 Chevelle 12-bolt in mine in about 1975. It still had the same axles in it until one axle worked its' way off of the bearing last year. That said, I beat up the 10-bolt quite a bit. All I did was break one axle. I was running 12.90 with the 10-bolt, and then 10.80 with the 12-bolt. Obviously there was an engine change, I'm just giving the data for your info.


----------



## 64Lemans1 (Jul 18, 2018)

Old Man Taylor said:


> The easiest is a 12-bolt. I put a '66 Chevelle 12-bolt in mine in about 1975. It still had the same axles in it until one axle worked its' way off of the bearing last year. That said, I beat up the 10-bolt quite a bit. All I did was break one axle. I was running 12.90 with the 10-bolt, and then 10.80 with the 12-bolt. Obviously there was an engine change, I'm just giving the data for your info.


I am not against beefing up the 10 bolt but would need almost every thing new besides the housing and cover. just wondering if I choose to buy a bolt in what the guy's thought was the best option. The 10 bolt works for now but feel like if I put slicks on and launch it will break.


----------



## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

As I said, the 12-bolt is a direct bolt in with the exception of the yoke. You need a "convertible" U-joint, which is no big deal.


----------



## 64Lemans1 (Jul 18, 2018)

I assume not any 12 bolt will work? Do I look for one from a specific model? Are they beefy enough from the factory to launch with slicks or would I want to upgrade. Am also thinking of buying a better drive shaft as they do not cost that much. They could match the 31 spline to 12 bolt or 9 inch.


----------



## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

The cheapest way is to do it once.

A Ford 9" is the only way to go. It's also the easiest to do a gear swap.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Don't invest a dime in the 10-bolt. As OMT suggested, one option is a 12-bolt from a Chevelle, but, these are hard to find and when you do they are not inexpensive and then you would want to have it gone through while it was out, so more dollars. The rear end width also increases 1" after 1967, but not really and issue, and I recall rear spring pads are different.

Next option would be to get a 1971-72 8.5" rear end from an A-body. These too are hard to find being only 2 years will fit your car and not all Pontiac A-bodies seemed to have these, so you need to know how to ID them and not get stuck with another 8.2"

So in all truth, you should be looking at an aftermarket 12-bolt axle assembly or a 9" Ford axle assembly. Neither option will be inexpensive. I went with a Ford 9" as you can swap gears a lot easier, ie you can have a gear set/carrier assembled that you can swap in and many sources where you can get these all assembled and ready to bolt in. This allows you to change gear ratio's if you want, such as one set for the track and one set for road trips.

Keep in mind that this is a "new build" set-up, no used or old parts. I piece-mealed my 9" together the way I want it assembled rather than just buy outright a complete and ready to bolt-in rear axle assembly. So it probably cost me more to do it this way, but you can most likely spec out a 9" or even a 12-bolt with the parts that will make it bullet proof.

Be aware that the '64 used different control arms - I believe the uppers & the bushing are smaller. I recall they are shorter than other years, so not sure what that really means if you decide to upgrade on them. Bushings won't matter as you will use the ones the rear end swap has.

Here is my cost on build/assembly for my aftermarket Ford 9".

*9" FORD Rear Axle Assembly - 1968 LeMans*

Quick Performance GM A-body 9" housing w/31 spline axles------- - $745.00
Upgrade to 1/4" heavy walled axle tube rated for 600HP+------------- $ 30.00 
Upgrade to new housing center piece & big billet bearing ends------ $100.00
11" drum brake kit - fully assembled----------------------------------------- $300.00
Shipping--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - $130.00

Yukon Nodular big-bearing differential case-------------------------------- - $354.03
Currie 9-Plus Big bearing pinion support------------------------------------ - $114.95
Currie Open carrier case---------------------------------------------------------- $105.95
Bolts - Grade 8 for pinion support----------------------------------------------- $ 7.45
Complete Timken bearing/seal/installation kit-------------------------------- $136.95
Pinion bearing solid spacer kit---------------------------------------------------- $ 16.95
9-Plus big bearing forged driveshaft pinion yoke----------------------------- $130.55

Power-Trax No-slip locker----------------------------------------------------------$430.00
Shipping------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -$ 15.65

Motive Gear 3.89 ratio ring & pinion gear set------------------------------ - $189.97

Shop assembly of third member/set-up gears------------------------------- $128.98

Parts Total-----------------------------------------------------------------------------$2,661.80
Shipping Total------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 145.65
Labor Total----------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 128.98

*TOTAL*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*$2,936.43*


----------



## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

LOL! Jim, writing checks is easy but costly.

Between Summit Racing, Quick Performance, Craigslist and Racer/Hot Rod Swap Meets I put together a complete 9" using a Nodular case, Strange, Moser, Richmond Pro and Mark Williams for under $750.00. The housing I already had but needed a ton of work (bent).

The key is to shop and know how to shop.


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

I'd go Ford 9" modified to GM. There are deals to be had if you scour ebay and craigslist. Stronger, more axle and third member choices and easier to change gearing (and no c clips). Its a dream upgrade for me...


----------



## 64Lemans1 (Jul 18, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> Don't invest a dime in the 10-bolt. As OMT suggested, one option is a 12-bolt from a Chevelle, but, these are hard to find and when you do they are not inexpensive and then you would want to have it gone through while it was out, so more dollars. The rear end width also increases 1" after 1967, but not really and issue, and I recall rear spring pads are different.
> 
> Next option would be to get a 1971-72 8.5" rear end from an A-body. These too are hard to find being only 2 years will fit your car and not all Pontiac A-bodies seemed to have these, so you need to know how to ID them and not get stuck with another 8.2"
> 
> ...


Hi Jim, exactly what I was looking for. I probably going to opt for rear disc. Also what are your thoughts on wormgear type posi vs the locker?


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

64Lemans1 said:


> Hi Jim, exactly what I was looking for. I probably going to opt for rear disc. Also what are your thoughts on wormgear type posi vs the locker?


I did some research before choosing the Power Trax Locker. I read many posts were the factory Ford locker was harsh on the street and could be loud as it grabbed/released. But, I did not want the posi units with friction clutches and need for posi additives.

I saw the worm gear (helical) style posi and it looks like a fine alternative, but I chose the Power Trax because it still worked as a locker does without the harshness - it is smoother. I read that some still get the clicking noise going around corners as the unit disengages and slips. But, my guess is with a lumpy cam & loud exhaust you are not going to hear it. The cost was cheaper than the worm gear type. Installation is straight forward and simple. I did email Power Trax to make sure it would handle my HP/TQ out of my 455 and they said no problem, so I went with it. I won't know if I made the right choice until I get the car on the road and test the set-up.






No-Slip Traction System - PowerTrax







www.powertrax.com


----------



## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

The nice thing about Ford units is the parts aren't too hard to pick up. 
















For my street car, I opted for the Strange Dana 60 with 1350 yoke, Strange S-Trac differential, 35 spline axles, Ford 11" brakes, and custom width. Purchased it at their year end sale and it was a little less than $2,800 delivered. Friend and I both ordered units at the same time for our 67's. My original 10-bolt was still under my car and put up with a lot of abuse, but I was always conscious of its limitations and was accustomed to rolling on the throttle. Not much doubt in my mind that with the drag radials and a sticky track that it wouldn't have survived side-stepping the clutch. The main problem with the BOP 10-bolts is the case spreads under power and allows the pinion to climb up the ring gear until the unit fails. Once in awhile the 28 spline axles on the 10-bolts become the failure point as OMT stated. Bottom line is you can spend a bunch of money on them but they still have their inherent weak points you can't really get away from.









My drag car has a 12 bolt in it, but has a massive amount of external gusseting along with billet bearing caps, spool, and softer ring and pinion gears. Figure that the 33x14.5 slicks and trans brake abuse the rearend something terrible (and Old Man Taylor's car was always a bit quicker, but it wasn't from me not trying).

Chevy 12-bolt has a 8.875" ring gear, Ford has a 9" ring gear, and Dana 60 has a 9.75" ring gear. Really, any of the three units will hold up just fine and it comes down to personal preference as much as anything. Also the 10-bolt gained the extra inch in 1966 mid-year production. I had a unit dated February 1966 and it was the wider width.


----------



## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

lust4speed said:


> View attachment 140146
> 
> The nice thing about Ford units is the parts aren't too hard to pick up.


LOL!

Nice Photoshop.

Next time you want to bash a rear end used by 75% - 80% of racers don't post a fake photo.

Or at least make sure there are scratches on the ground and gear lube on the gear.

Only fools waste time and money with 12 dolts. And the ones that do put all the Ford 9 parts on that makes them almost last as well as a Ford 9


----------



## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Sorry to bust your bubble but photo is real. This fellow blew out the rear right at the start and only made it about 6 feet. It was taken at the Hot Rod/In-and-Out Anniversary Show in 2018 in Pomona, CA. The photo has been on the Inland Empire GTO Club website since the 2018 event: Anniversary Event
I really thought it was a funny photo and didn't know it was going to spike your anger. You must really think I'm good having planned this since October 2018 when the photos were initially posted.

Second Ford rear I've seen where the pinion was spit out. What you should have noticed is the pinion support looks like it is right out of an old Ford and was probably dropped in without a thought given to the housing or bolts. Bad things happen when parts are not prepped properly.

Oh yeah, the rearend in our 1967 Firebird is a Currie prepped Ford 9" and never a problem.


----------



## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

lust4speed said:


> View attachment 140147
> View attachment 140150
> 
> For my street car, I opted for the Strange Dana 60 with 1350 yoke, Strange S-Trac differential, 35 spline axles, Ford 11" brakes, and custom width. Purchased it at their year end sale and it was a little less than $2,800 delivered. Friend and I both ordered units at the same time for our 67's. My original 10-bolt was still under my car and put up with a lot of abuse, but I was always conscious of its limitations and was accustomed to rolling on the throttle. Not much doubt in my mind that with the drag radials and a sticky track that it wouldn't have survived side-stepping the clutch. The main problem with the BOP 10-bolts is the case spreads under power and allows the pinion to climb up the ring gear until the unit fails. Once in awhile the 28 spline axles on the 10-bolts become the failure point as OMT stated. Bottom line is you can spend a bunch of money on them but they still have their inherent weak points you can't really get away from.


Looks like you got a deal on that rearend. Did you get to configure the rearend or was it a package deal they already had setup?


----------



## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

The ordering is exactly the same as a non-sale item and everything was available. Strange has a couple sales a year, but their yearend sale was a flat 10% off the final price of the order and free shipping. I've been on their email list for a couple years and had taken note of their previous annual sale, and last year was no exception. The response to their sale was probably unexpected and I did have quite a wait and at one point was getting worried whether it was ever going to be shipped. I think I ordered it first week of December and it shipped January 30th, but in the end it was well worth the wait. They did charge my card right up front and that didn't set really well with me, but again it was easy to forgive once the unit arrived.

My friend that also ordered one wanted 1/4" less in overall width because of a minor difference in our rim's backspacing. We checked when we received them and there was that 1/4" difference between them.

I'll include the last page of the invoice which shows the amount, the sale price, and no shipping charges. Think regular shipping from Illinois to California would have been about $400 so quite a saving there also. Forgot to mention that I also opted for the black powder coat. An unexpected surprise that put me in a panic was when both units arrived and appeared to be open differentials, and it was like "boy did I @$!% up!" Pulled the cover off and found their S-Track upgrade in place of the standard limited slip unit. Don't know whether they were out of the standard limited slip and tossed it in to get the assemblies out the door or if the orders were just filled wrong. Ordered a $495 Spicer and received a $750 Strange S-Track. Love the helical gear differential - no noise and one wheel can be with zero traction and the diff locks solid and pulls away. It acts like my drag car spool on acceleration and an open diff around turns. Some areas on the invoice have been blurred to protect the innocent...


----------



## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

The Strange end-of-year sale includes everything in their inventory so you could order a custom Ford 9" at the same reduced cost also.


----------

