# (headers) whats the diffrence?



## londo (Aug 12, 2007)

ok people please tell me the diffrence between the pacsetter headers for 400 bucks and the kooks long tube for 1400 i mean is this like a namebrand type of thing? what is the expected hp gain from each and life expectancy


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I'll let others who really know give a detailed answer but my guess is you'll never feel the difference between Kooks, Hooker, Headman, Pacesetter or any other when you rip through the gears. I can tell you that your engine bay temperature will rise, but I have never read that as being an issue on this forum. My trans-am went from 180 to 210 degrees so maybe I should have wrapped them prior to installing which I did myself, in a garage that you could not open either door without hitting the wall in. I also had difficult re-starts because of where the starter was located near the pipes- again, there are ways around that, but it's all money related.

I did see an awesome set of powdered red Kooks which would look awsome on my GTO but my feeling is that I would want to also change the exhaust, cam, lifters, rocker, and headers all at the same time or I don't think I would be happy.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

londo said:


> ok people please tell me the diffrence between the pacsetter headers for 400 bucks and the kooks long tube for 1400 i mean is this like a namebrand type of thing? what is the expected hp gain from each and life expectancy


I'm guessing the Kooks are powder coated or chromed and the Pacesetter's are not.


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## u-got-gto (May 19, 2007)

The Pacesetters are made of steel and have a thinner wall thickness... The Kooks are made of stainless steel and are much thicker... Although the power gains may be similar, the Pacesetters will rust out quickly and have an unusual raspy sound due to their thin-walled construction... If you don't plan on keeping your car for long or don't mind the look of rusty headers then go for the Pacesetters... $400.00 is a good price but does not include any mid pipes ($100)... Pacesetter, also, does not make any high-flow cats for their headers (if you want or need them)... As for the Kooks, the cost is actually is actually a lot cheaper than $1400 for the headers only... The actual cost is around $925.00, but you will need to add either the Kooks catless mids ($200) or the Kooks high-flow cats ($425) to their headers... In either case, you will want to have the headers coated to keep you engine temperatures down... I went with the Kooks Lts, Kooks high-flow cats and 2000 degree cherry-red ceramic coating from Precision Motorsports of FL... I couldn't be happier... Here are a few pics:


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I love the Kooks....they look awesome and temperature would be a major concern for me.:agree


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## londo (Aug 12, 2007)

ok ok i think i get it now lol u pay for what ya get kinda deal. Yea im planning on keeping this goat so i guess ill go with the kooks wow that red looks amazing thanks everyone for all of your help


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

*HEADERS [ whats the differance ]*

I have Pacesetters with hi flow cats and magnaflow exhaust and I am very happy with them. The fit and quality is just as goos as any on the market. AS far as a RASPY sound, Headers won't give you a raspy sound but the exhaust system that they are hooked up to will. check out my youtube sight below so you can hear what my car sounds like. And if they rust out a year or so the Kooks do, WHO CARE's. I can get 2 sets for the price of a set of Kooks. I am not knocking down Kooks because the do make a good items. but is it worth more then twice the price of a set of Pacesetters, the answer is NO.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

*headers what the differance*



u-got-gto said:


> The Pacesetters are made of steel and have a thinner wall thickness... The Kooks are made of stainless steel and are much thicker... Although the power gains may be similar, the Pacesetters will rust out quickly and have an unusual raspy sound due to their thin-walled construction... If you don't plan on keeping your car for long or don't mind the look of rusty headers then go for the Pacesetters... $400.00 is a good price but does not include any mid pipes ($100)... Pacesetter, also, does not make any high-flow cats for their headers (if you want or need them)... As for the Kooks, the cost is actually is actually a lot cheaper than $1400 for the headers only... The actual cost is around $925.00, but you will need to add either the Kooks catless mids ($200) or the Kooks high-flow cats ($425) to their headers... In either case, you will want to have the headers coated to keep you engine temperatures down... I went with the Kooks Lts, Kooks high-flow cats and 2000 degree cherry-red ceramic coating from Precision Motorsports of FL... I couldn't be happier... Here are a few pics:


Take a close look at photo number 2. your spark plug wire is melting on the header. remove the stock heat shield and install a set of ceramic coated sleeves like I did.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

*Headers what is the difference*

This is a continuation from # 8.

Another issue with kooks is their warranty, A 06 GTO owner had them on his car for 3 months and it developed a crack in the weld where the tube is welded to the Manifold bracket. He contacted KOOKS to check on a replacement set or have them pay to get it repaired under warranty. Their reply was NO WARRANTY of any kind . He removed them, sold them and now has a set of Pacesetters with a full warranty. his HP gain with the Kooks were 19 HP. With the Pacesetters the gain was 22. I know you can dyno a car 3 times and get 3 different readouts, but I am pointing at the over all gain in HP. They are the same. I will stick with Pacesetters at less then 1/2 the price.


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## u-got-gto (May 19, 2007)

LOWET said:


> Take a close look at photo number 2. your spark plug wire is melting on the header. remove the stock heat shield and install a set of ceramic coated sleeves like I did.


I know that picture makes it look like it's melting at #2, but it isn't... I do, however, like the recommendation of the ceramic coated sleeves... I'll have to check into those... Any good place to buy them?


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## u-got-gto (May 19, 2007)

LOWET said:


> I have Pacesetters with hi flow cats and magnaflow exhaust and I am very happy with them. The fit and quality is just as goos as any on the market. AS far as a RASPY sound, Headers won't give you a raspy sound but the exhaust system that they are hooked up to will. check out my youtube sight below so you can hear what my car sounds like. And if they rust out a year or so the Kooks do, WHO CARE's. I can get 2 sets for the price of a set of Kooks. I am not knocking down Kooks because the do make a good items. but is it worth more then twice the price of a set of Pacesetters, the answer is NO.


I have to agree... I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Pacesetters... For the price, you can't go wrong... True, you always can replace them if they rust out... As for raspy, I stand corrected... Raspy does refer more to the sound exiting the exhaust... I guess the word I should have used was maybe "tinny" (and I'm not even sure that is the right word)... There just appears to be a little different sound at the engine between the two brands... The performance shop that installed mine said this was due to the thinner wall steel used on the pacesetters... No matter how you look at it, long tube headers is the way to go (whether they are pacesetters or kooks)... No matter which one you install, the end result is the same... You will have an SEG that just won't go away every time you drive your goat...


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## GGTTOO (Oct 6, 2005)

As others have said, the differences are more than just cost.


The pacesetters are steel and the others are SS
When all is said and done and you have to purchase midpipes the price is not that significantly different from others such as AR, Kooks or SW among others
You can get the Pacesetters coated but they are still not going to last as long.
Steel radiates heat more heat, which will heat up your engine bay. 
There is a performance difference as documented by Maryland Speed.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

*Headers [ what is the difference ]*



u-got-gto said:


> I have to agree... I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Pacesetters... For the price, you can't go wrong... True, you always can replace them if they rust out... As for raspy, I stand corrected... Raspy does refer more to the sound exiting the exhaust... I guess the word I should have used was maybe "tinny" (and I'm not even sure that is the right word)... There just appears to be a little different sound at the engine between the two brands... The performance shop that installed mine said this was due to the thinner wall steel used on the pacesetters... No matter how you look at it, long tube headers is the way to go (whether they are pacesetters or kooks)... No matter which one you install, the end result is the same... You will have an SEG that just won't go away every time you drive your goat...


another thing to remember is that ALL types of metal are subject to rusting if left unpainted or uncoated, even stainless steel will rust. I have a stainless exhaust on my old pick up and the pipes rusted thru in about 3 years, I have Pacesetter headers on that truck , been on there for about 5 years, NO rust. I paint them once a year with HI TEMP header paint, clean them 1st of course. Listen to the sound of my car, sounds good with pasesetters YouTube - 05 GTO on a DYNO


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

*Headers, whats the difference*

here is one with kooks. they sound about the same



YouTube - GTO on dyno - Kooks installed


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

u-got-gto said:


> I know that picture makes it look like it's melting at #2, but it isn't... I do, however, like the recommendation of the ceramic coated sleeves... I'll have to check into those... Any good place to buy them?


you can get them at JEG'S. Summitt racing, Maryland speed and other places like that


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## t0ny (Oct 5, 2005)

*In search of my own SEG*

Not meaning to hijack, but I am also interested in headers. But I don't want to go through the same pain as my Camaro with multiple header, gasket, and bolt changes. I already know I'll be going with spark plug wires, a GM steel gasket and Stage 8 bolts. Any inputs on the best/longest lasting header for a $1500 budget? Any issues with o2 harness and requiring extensions? I already have a Borla cat-back if that helps.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

t0ny said:


> Not meaning to hijack, but I am also interested in headers. But I don't want to go through the same pain as my Camaro with multiple header, gasket, and bolt changes. I already know I'll be going with spark plug wires, a GM steel gasket and Stage 8 bolts. Any inputs on the best/longest lasting header for a $1500 budget? Any issues with o2 harness and requiring extensions? I already have a Borla cat-back if that helps.


None of the headers will last a lifetime , they will all start to rust, even the Stainless Steel pipes are subject to rust after a while. get them coated for some extra life, as far as gaskets [ order good ones ] when you order the headers .I know people with Kooks, Stainless works and ARH all of them needed o2 extensions unless you go with JBA shorties. I have Pacesetters and they needed 02 extensions


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GGTTOO said:


> As others have said, the differences are more than just cost.
> 
> 
> The pacesetters are steel and the others are SS
> ...


For my Coated Pacesetters, Mongillo Motors mid pipes and hi flow cats plus install cost me $1,100.00. the whole package for less the a price of KOOKs and with a warranty. It was well worth the entry fee for me. KOOKS are great headers but I wanted quality headers at a decent price with a warranty, that it what I received, plus Kooks LT's are not legal in several states. My car is still 100 percent legal and will pass my emission [ smog test ]. all headers are subject to rusting, even stainless steel. No matter which ones you get, give them a decent cleaning every year and if you see and scratches or chips, Coat them with HI Temp exhaust paint. The best is the VHT 2000 degree paint or ceramic spray, also if you have black headers, the best paint to use is the black spray paint for out door cooking grills. That stuff never burns off.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

LOWET said:


> For my Coated Pacesetters, Mongillo Motors mid pipes and hi flow cats plus install cost me $1,100.00. the whole package for less the a price of KOOKs and with a warranty. It was well worth the entry fee for me. KOOKS are great headers but I wanted quality headers at a decent price with a warranty, that it what I received, plus Kooks LT's are not legal in several states. My car is still 100 percent legal and will pass my emission [ smog test ]. all headers are subject to rusting, even stainless steel. No matter which ones you get, give them a decent cleaning every year and if you see and scratches or chips, Coat them with HI Temp exhaust paint. The best is the VHT 2000 degree paint or ceramic spray, also if you have black headers, the best paint to use is the black spray paint for out door cooking grills. That stuff never burns off.


It's not just Kooks long tubes that are illegal in some states. The name of the headers have nothing to do with it. According to what we have to deal with here in Cali, if the replacement headers do not allow for the catalytic converters to remain in the same factory position as they were with the stock headers then they are illegal. So whether they're Kooks, Pacesetter, SLP, Hooker, etc long tubes they are all illegal if those cats are moved.

*Also, let's not turn this thread into a major pissing contest about which header is better than the next. I have seen threads like this get shut down plenty of times. Not because one header is better than the next but because certain individuals get defensive based on their loyalty to one product over the other. So let's play fair... K?*


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

6QTS11OZ said:


> It's not just Kooks long tubes that are illegal in some states. The name of the headers have nothing to do with it. According to what we have to deal with here in Cali, if the replacement headers do not allow for the catalytic converters to remain in the same factory position as they were with the stock headers then they are illegal. So whether they're Kooks, Pacesetter, SLP, Hooker, etc long tubes they are all illegal if those cats are moved.
> 
> *Also, let's not turn this thread into a major pissing contest about which header is better than the next. I have seen threads like this get shut down plenty of times. Not because one header is better than the next but because certain individuals get defensive based on their loyalty to one product over the other. So let's play fair... K?*


 :agree

as far as header brands, I think they are all good and it is up to the buyer as to what he or she wants. I don't feel anyone brand has a big advantage over the other. They all have pros & cons 

As far as being legal.
I stand corrected. Are LT's legal in Cali. I have heard from some people that they had to use shorties [ which are ok ] because the LT's we banned


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

I am not sure about other states but here in Connecticut we do not have mandatory vehicle inspection. The only times are cars get inspected is if you are buying a car that is over 10 years old, or if you are given a ticket for excessive noise, head light out and things along that line. You have to get the car repaired and have it inspected to make sure the repair was made. We also have to go thru smog [ emissions ] testing. It is done every 2 years except if you have a new car, the new car gets checked the 1st time after 4 years and then every 2 years after that. We can get ton's of mods done to our cars and still be legal. If our car fails the emmissions test, we have to get repairs done to try to make it pass. If we spend over $600.00 on repairs and it still fails they give us a waiver. We test it again in 2 years. I have done several mods to mine and it will still pass emmisions and is 100 percent legal.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

LOWET said:


> :agree
> 
> as far as header brands, I think they are all good and it is up to the buyer as to what he or she wants. I don't feel anyone brand has a big advantage over the other. They all have pros & cons
> 
> ...


Yes long tubes are illegal in Cali. But that doesn't stop anyone from purchasing them. I have the JBA ceramic shorties with JBA mids and high flow cats. The shorties even come with a C.A.R.B. plate welded to it.


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Yes long tubes are illegal in Cali. But that doesn't stop anyone from purchasing them. I have the JBA ceramic shorties with JBA mids and high flow cats. The shorties even come with a C.A.R.B. plate welded to it.


I am in So Cal also, how much did your JBA set cost you and who did you go to purchase and install them if you dont mind sharing. I have '05 M6 and have decided to do some work on it, in addition what has yoru experience been with this setup? 

What other mods have you done to your car?


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

patisi said:


> I am in So Cal also, how much did your JBA set cost you and who did you go to purchase and install them if you dont mind sharing. I have '05 M6 and have decided to do some work on it, in addition what has yoru experience been with this setup?
> 
> What other mods have you done to your car?


I bought the headers and mids from Gravana tuning.

Headers;
2004 2005 2006 Pontiac GTO Headers JBA 1809SJS Stainless Silver Ceramic Coated 50-State Legal - Gravana Tuning - 2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0

Mids;
2005 2006 Pontiac GTO LS2 High-Flow Mid Pipes W/Cats JBA 2810SYC - Gravana Tuning - 2005 Pontiac GTO 6.0

I installed the parts myself. Where are you in So. Cali? If you're not too far from the High Desert I'd be more than happy to give you a hand installing them (free of charge).

*My current mods are; Maggie supercharger with 2.6" pulley running at 8 psi boost, LPE CAI, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, oil breather, Mahle forged pistons, Manley forged rods, LPE GT2-3 cam, Elite Engineering catch can, JBA ceramic coated headers and mids with high flow cats, MagnaFlow catback with x pipe, Textralia twin disc clutch, GMM ripshifter, stainless steel clutch line, remote clutch bleed line, Pedder's rear drag springs, BMR drag bags and custom tune.*

Click on the link in my sig to see the dyno run.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Yes long tubes are illegal in Cali. But that doesn't stop anyone from purchasing them. I have the JBA ceramic shorties with JBA mids and high flow cats. The shorties even come with a C.A.R.B. plate welded to it.


Maybe that is where I got the idea the Kooks were banned in some states. JBA shorties are good, I know a few people who installed them and the received some good HP and TQ increases


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