# Just a few questions.



## vance_pounders (Dec 31, 2008)

Why did you choose your GTO over any other american car and why over an import?

Why do you think the GTO of 04-06 isn't very popular?

What makes this car better than what other people consider good cars (WRX's and stuff)?


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

1. Because it is a GTO.
2. No advertising. Previous GM CEO didn't want the car so there were extremely limited commercials.
3. See #1.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

:agree with what Jerry said. Bear in mind that, literally speaking, the 04-06 GTO is not an American car but an Australian import. Many 'American' cars are not made in the U.S. just as many 'import' cars are made in the U.S. I'd like to add also that I like the GTO because it's a retro muscle car in theory (big engine/etc. in mid sized sedan) rather than in looks (as if it was a caraicature of it's 60s or 70s predecessor i.e. the Mustang or the Camaro) and thankfully, there were no 4 or 6 cylinder GTOs built unlike some of the other 'retro' cars.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

vance_pounders said:


> Why did you choose your GTO over any other american car and why over an import?
> 
> Why do you think the GTO of 04-06 isn't very popular?
> 
> What makes this car better than what other people consider good cars (WRX's and stuff)?


1. Bought it because I wanted a sports car. Price was right, loved the feel, and is looks good without being to agressive. I was in the market and looking at a C5, but after seeing the interior and sitting in both, Vette didn't compair. Import and domestic doesn't matter to me. I just wanted a car that had what I was looking on and was a simple design to fix. Don't really care about the name GTO. If this car was built by Toyota and named something I would have still bought it.

2. GTO isn't popular for its look. It looks to simple to most people. Personally, I think that is why I like it so much.

3. As state above, the GTO is really a converted Holden from Australia. ALso my SVT Focus that I tradeded in for the GTO was built by Ford in Mexico. I have the build certificate for the car stating it.


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## Northeast Rod Run (Oct 29, 2008)

the worst thing they did for this car, is naming it a GTO. if they just left the original name alone, I believe these would have sold a lot better. once the put the name GTO on the car, it became an instant failure because it got compared to the originals


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Northeast Rod Run said:


> the worst thing they did for this car, is naming it a GTO. if they just left the original name alone, I believe these would have sold a lot better. once the put the name GTO on the car, it became an instant failure because it got compared to the originals


I don't think the name GTO had much to do with it. I remember when they came out. Dealers were *******s, they wouldn't let you test drive, had high markups. Thats what killed sales. And the fact that they are 'boring' looking compaired to the Mustang. Still on names, the Charger is doing good, I'm seeing alot of new Challengers also. I think it is less name then you think.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeah, I don't think you can call the car a failure, especially an 'instant' failure because of the name. GM was well into it's downslide when the GTO came out. Also as stated earlier, the previous GM CEO didn't want it, the advertising was poor, and, lets be realistic, a 350hp mid sized sedan wasn't exactly the most practical car to introduce at the time, in 2004 (actually mid/late 2003). Good thing I wasn't looking for practical.


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## MJGTOWISH (Jun 15, 2006)

HP11 said:


> Yeah, I don't think you can call the car a failure, especially an 'instant' failure because of the name. GM was well into it's downslide when the GTO came out. Also as stated earlier, the previous GM CEO didn't want it, the advertising was poor, and, lets be realistic, a 350hp mid sized sedan wasn't exactly the most practical car to introduce at the time, in 2004 (actually mid/late 2003). Good thing I wasn't looking for practical.


mid sized sedan :shutme COUPE !!!
:lol:

The gto needed more adversing PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! the sap package should have been standard. And they could have sold a **** load.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

MJGTOWISH said:


> mid sized sedan :shutme COUPE !!!
> :lol:


Well, it is a 2 dr sedan, not a coupe IMO. To me coupe denotes hardtop which means no posts and rear windows that roll down. Again JMO, people have argued that one with me for years. I guess it's just a difference in the interpretation of the terminology.


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## Tacmedic (Feb 24, 2006)

1) As stated above, I didn't buy my car because it was a GTO, as a matter of fact, I have wanted a Holden Monaro ever since I saw Mad Max in '79, (The black car being chased in the first scene is a Monaro). I followed the Australian built Fords and GMs and always wondered why they didn't sell them over here.

2) I think it didn't sell well because it lacked an identity of it's own. It looks too much like a Grand Am, and is pretty much a sleeper. American buyers, in general, don't like sleepers. They like fast cars to be flashy. I like sleepers

3) 400hp, 400ft/lbs RWD and a six speed. Need I say more?


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## vance_pounders (Dec 31, 2008)

Basically what I'm asking is to try and help myself back up my love for the GTO and for American made cars in General. I've got these Import kids trying to tell me there STI, civics, accords, preludes, old a** GTRs and stuff like that are better than all the American made cars. 

I wanna know from the car enthusiast on my fellow side feel so strongly about the same thing I do.

Heres some of what I'm dealing with.
thats not the only problem with em..
and thats kinda harsh there brett lol

and sorry vance and daniel, but the GTO is a joke
if it was such a great car
A: pontiac would probably still be a car company
B: it wouldn't have had a 30 year gap in production

everything pontiac produced besides the Trans Am, the old school GTO, and the firebirds are pretty much crap...

sure the new GTO has a LS motor, but what GM car didn't/doesn't? 
the 04+ GTO's put their predecessors to shame, no if's and's or but's
so i don't want to hear about it being a "real" car
especially since it doesn't exist anymore =D

and brett... you're dumb hahahaha
skylines are fun to look at, but they have gotten such a negative connotation over the years that owning one has lost its appeal.
yea for their time they were godly, and still are... breaking the 1000hp mark easily
but so do supra's but again everyone has one of thosewell let me say this, you've actually got a roughly 340hp car.
manufacturer's hp ratings are always at the crank, and never to the wheel. so unless you can provide a dyno proving me wrong, i'll stand by the 15% drivetrain loss 
and yes, straight line drag races do show power... but thats about it... 
anyone with a high hp car can drive in a straight line... it takes no skill what so ever, and therefore is not impressive by my standards
it takes a whole other level of skill to actually drive the car in a technical manner, and i dont mean drifting, i mean driving
and everything on the STI is fully functional, that big wing? yep, guess what.. creates downforce, which is vital to keeping the car glued to the ground. thus making it far more stable than the WRX at high speeds. 
don't believe me? look it up
and i'm also pretty sure most auto makers make cars to make them... to earn profit?can you guess why pontiac was let go?
as opposed to chevy, cadillac, GMC or buick?
it all came down to money.. and pontiac didn't produce.
it makes no sense business-wise to back a company that doesn't produce numbers. i'm not defending GM here.. i hate the company, i'm just saying that pontiac was not deemed a worthwhile asset for them. hence the discontinuation.. same with hummer, saturn, and saab.
and no.. the reason why the GTO didn't sell is because it was overpriced at the time, it was not distributed or marketed well at all, and the design was outdated for the car. 
AND again... let me stress, that the GTO was in no way a competitor for the corvette
go look up sales of the vettes in 2004-2006 compared to the GTO
if it was impeding vette sales, then why did the vette outproduce and outsell it?
its because the vette has history, and has made a name for itself. again, theres a reason for the 30 year gap in the GTO's production, it could not compete with the vette would like to add that pontiacs biggest mistake was dropping the firebird... and many will agree with me on this

automotive sales come down to one thing.
the practicality of the car in question, at the given time of its release.
sadly the GTO was not practical, it was not appealing to the public, and therefore did not sell as well as pontiac had envisioned... it was their own fault after all, basing their hopes on the success of the original GTO, which hasn't seen production in again... 30 years. thats bad business in my book


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## FastFrank (Jun 12, 2009)

Reading that post makes me wonder why you even have a GTO, lol. Back to your original questions...



vance_pounders said:


> Why did you choose your GTO over any other american car and why over an import?
> 
> Why do you think the GTO of 04-06 isn't very popular?
> 
> What makes this car better than what other people consider good cars (WRX's and stuff)?


I chose a GTO because it's different. I only know of two others in the county. I actually stumbled across mine. I really hadn't considered a GTO because I really didn't know much about them. My brother has a 66 GTO, and I know all about the older generation goats. But I hardly even saw the new GTO's advertised around here. 

I was looking for either a BMW M3 or Audi S4 when I went to my 4th car lot. I wasn't that impressed with the BMW's, and I could only find S4's in with auto transmissions. I mentioned this to the salesman and he showed me the 04 GTO. Wow I thought, 6 speed manual. Nice! I thought it looked pretty understated. I lifted the hood and saw the LS1 under there and was surprised. I also like the sleeper look. He went to get the key and I took it for a drive. Long story short, I loved how it drove and the power it had so I bought it after thinking about it overnight.

I'm with some of the others. I think it didn't sell well because of poor advertising. The price may have had something to do with it, but mainly advertising. I remember seeing only one commercial for them back then, and I wasn't impressed by it. I meet people nearly every day who ask me what kind of car it is. Or, if they notice the badges they say "I didn't know they started making those again". But I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't like it.

In my opinion, if you want to road race or autocross a car in stock form, you would do better with an STI or and EVO. Hell, you might even do better with an old Prelude SH. But I bought mine as a daily driver, and I love how it drives. And I know that I can pass pretty much anything I see on a daily basis if needed.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Ah, yes! I forgot to add the rear wheel drive factor. I'm so old school that, though I've tried, I just can't get to front wheel dirve. We'll buy FWD for my wife but not for me. Not caring much for Ford or Chrysler products, that kind of narrows the field for me.


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

Coupe vs. Sedan - What’s the Difference? | Automoblog.net


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GTOJer said:


> Coupe vs. Sedan - What’s the Difference? | Automoblog.net


:agree


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

vance_pounders said:


> Why did you choose your GTO over any other american car and why over an import?
> 
> Why do you think the GTO of 04-06 isn't very popular?
> 
> What makes this car better than what other people consider good cars (WRX's and stuff)?


1. I only drive Pontiacs. Since the news this year, I decided to buy yet another one. I was getting pretty serious about ordering an '09 Solstice GXP Coupe, but then it became too impractical an idea with no back seat or trunk. I started looking at G8 GXPs because that was the only trim level with a manual transmission, but the $42,000 sticker price was way too much. So I looked up GTOs on Autotrader and shopped around a bit, ending up with what I've got now. IMO, Chevrolets are too cliché, Fords are boring and fugly, and Mopars are basket cases. Imports are expensive and overly flashy, not to mention trendy.

2. The 21st Century GTO isn't popular because all it got was negative reviews about its looks. Why does it matter, when GTOs have always been about go, and not show?

3. The GTO is better than others for several reasons. Independent rear suspension, instead of the same antiquated solid-axle systems. Better power/weight ratio than the other modern muscle cars. 400hp/ft-lbs that gets 26mpg. Styling that's all business, not pretentious. Comfort comparable to a Cadillac. I could go on...


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## BV GTO (Jul 14, 2006)

vance_pounders said:


> Why did you choose your GTO over any other american car and why over an import?
> 
> Why do you think the GTO of 04-06 isn't very popular?
> 
> What makes this car better than what other people consider good cars (WRX's and stuff)?


#1. Fell in love with the the Monaro concept coupe when I saw it on the internet back in 1998. I loved the clean uncluttered looks. I lobbied GM, specifically Buick, to bring the car over. I'd been a Camaro buyer since the time I could afford a new car back in 1973. I wanted a more "adult" car with more room and wasn't so low to the ground. I also wanted a rwd, V8 powered car. I didn't like the current Mustangs even if it was rwd and V8 powered. When I was shopping for my 2006 GTO, the other cars I had on my short list was the 2006 Mustang GT and 2006 Infiniti G35 coupe.
Both Mustang and G35 were cramped inside. Mustang has a rear suspension very similar to my 1990 IROC-Z which was designed in the late 70s! Didn't handle or ride as good as the GTO or G35.
G35 had great clean uncluttered looks like the GTO but was smaller inside and cost $2-4k more than the GTO. V6 was powerful but didn't compare to the GTO. I don't like the retro looks of the current Mustang even if it was $2-3k less than the GTO.
One final test drive of the GTO and it sealed the deal for me. Actually, I'd set my mind on the GTO but I opened my options to the other two.

#2. Like was said, poor advertising. Plus in 2004, most dealers were real asshats. One dealer had a $5k mark up and had the showroom floor car locked. Another required that I put down a $1000 deposit to test drive the car. WHAT?!? Is this a Ferrari or something? I was able to test drive a 2004 BMW M3 w/o any hassle. unfortunately, was out of my budget.

#3 400 bhp LS2.  What other car, foreign or domestic offered a 400 bhp car for around$30k?

Regarding coupe nomenclature, this isn't called a Ford five window sedan:


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

i got mine because it was a RWD, V8, 6 speed that didn't scream racer boy. 

i think Vance is conveniently forgetting that many of the "business" decisions made of late were dictated by politics and the drive towards underpowered "eco-cars" by the government. over half of the top profitable vehicles made by GM were gas guzzlers yet they're being pushed to drop those. Pontiac had the misfortune of having the image of performance cars. the G6 was one of GMs top selling cars. the dealers they cut didn't cost GM anything so why did they have to cut so many? every dealer bought inventory and bought parts for stock. now there aren't going to be as much of either. the G8 (or GTO) wasn't produced by Pontiac and to my knowledge wasn't subsidized by GM so why cut it? government coercion.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Another point I forgot - The GTO has no Big Brother module, aka OnStar.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

BV GTO said:


> Regarding coupe nomenclature, this isn't called a Ford five window sedan


I've actually heard them referred to as simply a "Ford Five Window" more often than with the word 'coupe' attached and the term Deuce Coupe is slang. I guess it's all what one is used to.


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## vance_pounders (Dec 31, 2008)

Just so everyone knows the above statements in my post that are negative are not from me but from another person who is trying to tell me American sucks.


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## BV GTO (Jul 14, 2006)

HP11 said:


> I've actually heard them referred to as simply a "Ford Five Window" more often than with the word 'coupe' attached and the term Deuce Coupe is slang. I guess it's all what one is used to.


Or where one's from. When the Grand National Roadster Show was held in Oakland and known as the Oakland Roadster Show, I attended as many as I could and I always heard people call them 3 window coupes and 5 window coupes.


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## tim m (Jul 3, 2009)

vance_pounders said:


> Why did you choose your GTO over any other american car and why over an import?
> 
> Why do you think the GTO of 04-06 isn't very popular?
> 
> What makes this car better than what other people consider good cars (WRX's and stuff)?


#1 . i like pontiac , it is an import , in my opinion it is a gto.

#2 . if more people would drive one they would appreciate the car. everyone who has gotten a ride in mine is more than impressed. and i like the way it looks. it does not look like a 65 or a 70 gto. a 70 is different in apperance from a 65 as is a 2004-6. in my opinion they as everything have evolved.

#3 . in my eyes it is what i want , everyone has their own vision of what they want. if i were you i would not worry about what everyone else thinks.


i have never been told negative things about my car as you have. 
mostly what i hear is man that is a nice car or sweet a goat.

i am sorry gm made a desicion to get rid of pontiac, i think it was a bad one to make. as of now these are the last gto's and i think the popularity of these cars will go up as the value will to. but even if it does not i plan on keeping mine. 
everything i have posted is only my opinion. tim


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