# Serious advice needed



## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

I am looking for a GTO and deadset on a low mileage vehicle. I have been pre-approved and trying to decide on which one to get. I like the 2006 cause it is newer, but when you really look at it the 2005 and 2006 have very little changes nothing really big. I did notice the price differences between the 2005 and 2006.

A 2006 with 15,000 miles goes for $20k-24k
A 2005 with 15,000 miles goes for $15k-19k

I want the low miles so I can have the car as long as possible. I plan on owning the car for a very long time. I like the colors of the 06's but realyl like the 05 yellow. It is proving very hard ot find a yellow 05 with low miles. I am in the Army and only in the states for another 6 weeks. I have 2 years in Germany and if I wait 2 years then try to buy one then low mileage is out the window. I have a small window to buy and everyday that goes by I get more and more anxious.

I have found a bunch of 06's with under 15k miles but the dealers want 26k for them which is above my loan amount. What are your thoughts on the 05 vs 06. I can handle the payments if I max my loan out, but my wheels are always turning. Thanks for any advice.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Why not wait until you come back from Germany? What would you do with the car while you're gone? Let it sit for two years? Kind of defeats the puropse, doesn't it? Don't let being anxious cloud your judgement and force you into a deal that isn't really what you want. A 'maxed out' loan doesn't really sound like the best way to go either.....JMO.


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## FastFrank (Jun 12, 2009)

HP11 said:


> Why not wait until you come back from Germany? What would you do with the car while you're gone? Let it sit for two years? Kind of defeats the puropse, doesn't it? Don't let being anxious cloud your judgement and force you into a deal that isn't really what you want. A 'maxed out' loan doesn't really sound like the best way to go either.....JMO.


^^Excellent advice if you ask me. I would rather buy a car with 50k miles on it that was driven regularly than buy one with 25k miles that sat for 2 years without being driven. Plus, these cars will be less expensive when you come back.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Sorry forgot to clarify myself - I am shipping the GTO over to Germany. I will modify and play with it and use as a daily driver over there. Work is not far from the house and the autobahn is even closer. :willy:


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

Aside from the faster seat motors in the '06, I don't see any value buying extra for one.

Think about the savings and tossing in upgrades.


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## CChase (Dec 11, 2007)

dquack said:


> Sorry forgot to clarify myself - I am shipping the GTO over to Germany. I will modify and play with it and use as a daily driver over there. Work is not far from the house and the autobahn is even closer. :willy:


No clue what the values are like but they have the GTO over there as the Vauxhall Monaro so you might want to check it out while you're over there. Don't know what shipping it back to this country would be like though...


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Nah would be easier buying here and ship, then ship back when done.


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## soltino (Sep 12, 2006)

Might be a good to check with the lender whether you can take the car out of country.


tino


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Yeah USAA is military based so they allow all of their car loans to leave country. They work with us which is awesome. Plus I just found something called OPLIFT which means they take civilian cars and load them onto NAvy boats and ship over an a Space A availability. The navy would prob be drag racing the GTO on the boat. LOL.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

HP11 said:


> Why not wait until you come back from Germany? What would you do with the car while you're gone? Let it sit for two years? Kind of defeats the puropse, doesn't it? Don't let being anxious cloud your judgement and force you into a deal that isn't really what you want. A 'maxed out' loan doesn't really sound like the best way to go either.....JMO.


Military has special stuff with reguards to cars.



FastFrank said:


> ^^Excellent advice if you ask me. I would rather buy a car with 50k miles on it that was driven regularly than buy one with 25k miles that sat for 2 years without being driven. Plus, these cars will be less expensive when you come back.


Thats my theory too, less issues when a car is actually driven. Low miles doesn't mean it was stored properly or even fluids changed with age.



dquack said:


> Yeah USAA is military based so they allow all of their car loans to leave country. They work with us which is awesome. Plus I just found something called OPLIFT which means they take civilian cars and load them onto NAvy boats and ship over an a Space A availability. The navy would prob be drag racing the GTO on the boat. LOL.


I know in the Army, I am able to ship 1 car with me to and from my station. Cool thing is they consider my motorcycle part of my house hold goods and just count it as weight to what I can take.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Here is a reply from one of the dealers. I don't know much about the upgrades on the GTO's figured I would learn and teach myself as I go. Tell me if you think he is blowing smoke or not - 

*Derek:

Here's the price we worked out,

We'll sell you the GTO for $23,859 plus tax and a transit tag

Here is a list of the upgrades:
Dynatech GTO SuperMaxx Header System - $1100.00
Cam - $425.00
Valvetrain Kit - 699.00
L76 intake manifold kit - $530.00
2 - L92 Cylinder Heads - 998.00
EFI live Tuning package - 795.00
All of the above equipment was installed at:
Pro Tune Performance, Inc.
727 Furnace Hills Pike
Lititz, Pa 17543

Customer also added:
ROH Drift Wheels - $1,100.00
Tires - $600.00
SAP Grill - 135.00
Cat Back Stainless Exhaust Magnaflow - $625.00
Billet Short Shifter - $400.00
Volant Cool-air Filter - $289.00
JHP Gauge POD - 595.00
Until it's all said and done Derek, this guy added $8,291 worth of upgrades to the GTO. He was way into this car and it shows when you look at the professionalism of the installation. I have documents to back up the prices of the upgrades installed at ProTune Performance and a list from the customer to back up the second list. Please let me know what you want to do as soon as possible. This is a great car and a great deal*

I told him the original price of $29k was way too high for the bank loan. I explained USS does KBB + 10% and that is it. He told me this car KBB'd at $23,050, but with $5,000 worth of upgrades done to it. I was going to tell him that I would go with $23,500 and we might have a deal that would give me the required room to clear tax, tags, and title. Thanks for any advice, just trying to get steered in the right direction.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

Reading thru this thread a few things come to mind;

Usually a modded car is depreciated below the value of a bone stock ride with respect to trade in value. Sounds like the dealer tipped his cards on this by negotiating off their listing price to meet your financing criteria so quickly... and is using the mods to justify their higher sale price as if the mod cost came out of their pocket, when it didn't. Stealership reality in playing the buy low, sell high car biz game to make money. You can try to get him to lower the price further, but that might be a hard sell since you also showed your hand by telling him how high you can go with the financing.

The car sounds like it was done right and he provided you with the shop that completed the work, so... you could call them about the build and find out if they have a dyno sheet from the tuning secession so you'll know how much power its putting to the ground and if the speed limiter was turned off. 

Bottom line, If you like it and the price fits your budget, buy it........ cause there will be nothing to compare the experience of owing and driving your GTO on the autobahn for the next 2 years. Shipping your ride over and back is one perk of military service you should take full advantage of (they are sent on merchant ships parked in a 40 foot container or driven onto a "Roll on, Roll off" vessel, that are either civilian crewed Military Sealift Command ships or civilian shipping company's under contract to run military freight, but not on Naval war ships). Enjoy blowin beamers off the road when you join the 160+ MPH club.:cheers


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

The car is modded, it is only worth what selling rate is, not what you put into it. Maybe if it was a private seller selling to someone who wanted a modded car, might get more for it.

Dealers are just tring to take you to the cleaner cause they usually can.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

You both said basically the same thing. Mods do not add value. Generally, if a dealer is going to give you a rundown like the list above, he likely got it from someone else. He might not even know what all of that means and he's just passing on that info as a negotiating tactic. I've never known too many salesman that were that knowledgable when it comes to mods. What's the mileage on this car? I wouldn't put too much stock in what he says the car KBB'd at. That's supposed to make you think that they're only making $809 on it. We all know better that that.....


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

The GTO has 9,240 miles on it. I wouldn't pay over 22,000 for it bottom line. Under KBB I gave it the premium wheels since he added some nice wheels and rims. Do they consider the Blaupunkt system to be a premium system? Thanks so far for the advice. I liked the car but it isn't black with red interior, so that kinda turned me off. I wasn't worried about showing my hand cause it is at the low end of my list, but still a contender.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Premium wheels only count if they are stock. I wouldn't pay extra for aftermarket. Unless it is the stock 18s I wouldn't add it. Factory headunit isn't premium as it is stock. Just my 2 cents atleast. I'm sure that is how the dealer is getting such high prices is they are added stuff that isn't worth any extra. I would walk away and spend my money with someone who cars. There are plendy of GTOs out there, especially if your willing to pay top dollar.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Problem is most of the closest ones are dealers. Of course I am not playing to their smoke and mirrors. Have already told 3 dealerships to take a hike cause their prices were too inflated and their cars weren't even modded. It is just too funny. You would think with their prices the recession was over. LOL.

I think the highest I am willing to go right now is about 18,000 miles. That gives me plenty of time with my new baby. Plan on having her for another 10 years if possible. I owned a 1992 Cavalier Z24. Bought it in 95 with 7k miles on it. Kept it for 10 years had hella miles on it but not a single leak or maintenance issue when she was sold. I actually got to ask a higher price for it cause it looked alot better then her age.

I still have a few weeks to look and decide, but defintley couldn't do it without the help from you guys here on the forum.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Here was his response -

Derek:

Before we consider your offer, what is the absolute earliest you can be at the dealership to test drive the vehicle and take delivery? We need to finish our month strong and there are only two days left.

We would be more inclined to negotiate if you could make it here tommorrow or Saturday,

Thanks, let me know,

Andy


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

So talked with the head manager and he is ok with $22,500 but he wants the deal sealed by Sat at noon to close out his books for the month. Is fine with me as long as the test drive goes good. Now I just have to find a driving partner. LOL that is the hard part. His driver is sick (plus I would hate to get stranded there) so I have to drive my rental up there and drive both back. It is black so I had to eat my crow soup on that. I love the color black I think it is dead sexy, but hate maintaining it. At least the wife will understand. Thanks for all of the advice.


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## FastFrank (Jun 12, 2009)

dquack said:


> Here was his response -
> 
> Derek:
> 
> ...


Don't play his game. He wants you to drive the thing in the hopes that once you drive it you'll have to have it at any price. He wants you to come in right away to keep you from doing any more research. Offer him $19,000 and tell him to take it or leave it.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

FastFrank,

I hear you I will drive up there and if it is right then I drive away with it. The problem I have a nice little excel sheet with all the cars within a 500 mile radius that I can get. On that list I have it sorted by low mileage to high and high being 25,000. Out of 13 cars both dealer and seller I have lost 6 off of my list for the KBB game. I have contacted 6 people/dealerships and each was priced above KBB and each one has been sold in the last 2 weeks. I get this guy to come down to $22,500 and I think it is a good deal. I won't let him take me for anything over the price. I treat him the same way as if it was a local dealer. If the deal works out to KBB then I drive away in a GTO if not then I drive away in the rental car. I am waiting on the carfax right now to check it, but if it drives well then I think it is a done deal. Believe me I won't let them sucker me into the whole of sorry we have to sell at a higher price scam. Not going to happen. Good, bad, ugly?


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## FastFrank (Jun 12, 2009)

It sounds like you've been doing your homework for this. That's good to hear. The reason I suggested such a low price is precisely because the car has been modded. Since it's modded, chances are high that it's also been run hard or even abused. In my book, that brings the value down significantly. The kbb price is for an un-modded car. 

The other thing I always consider is, if I'm buying a 3 - 5 year old car with extremely low miles, that means the factory warranty is expired or close to it. And the fact that it has low miles means that any potential problems may not have shown themselves yet.

Good luck with your search, what ever you decide to buy. And I'm jealous of you over the thought of being able to take a GTO over to the autobahn.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

The factory warranty was 3 yrs/36K mi. There wouldn't be any 04-06 GTO still under the original factory warranty since the last one built would have a build date of 6/14/06 IIRC. I forgot to mention that KBB is for non modded cars. (Thanks, Frank)


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

I totally understand what you are saying and totally agree. I now see the folly of the low mileage view. LOL. I called USAA and they said regardless of the mods the value is the same, but I totally understand where you are coming from. Man I need one of you gear heads to come with me. LOL. I pulled up the Carfax on it go here and click on the report to look at it. There are some gaps between buying and selling for servicing but the car only have 9k on it and it could have been serviced in a mom and pop joint.

2006 Pontiac GTO 2dr Cpe Phantom Black Metallic Coupe. A Pontiac GTO at Providence Pontiac GMC Quarryville PA

Hopefully nobody goes and buys it from under me. Not saying anyone on here would do it, but my luck some shady guy would get an account see it and live 2 miles from there and buy it before me. LOL that is my luck.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

HP11 said:


> The factory warranty was 3 yrs/36K mi. There *wouldn't* be any 04-06 GTO still under the original factory warranty since the last one built would have a build date of 6/14/06 IIRC.


Not true, my warranty is still in effect until 3/15/2010 and people that opted for the factory extended plan were covered for 5 years, 50k or 70k miles. Build date has nothing to do with the OEM warranty, purchase date does and I believe the last "new" 2006 GTO was sold sometime in 2008.

As for the OP's ride.... even if the time period from original purchase date was still within the 36 months, the mods alone will kill coverage on the important power train items.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> ......people that opted for the factory extended plan were covered for 5 years, 50k or 70k miles.


What does that have to do with my comment? That wouldn't be the OEM factory warranty, right? On the other point, how did you arrive at the conclusion that my comment implies that build date has anything to do with the OEM watrranty? All I meant by that is that more than three years have passed since the last one was built.


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## CChase (Dec 11, 2007)

HP11 said:


> What does that have to do with my comment? That wouldn't be the OEM factory warranty, right? On the other point, how did you arrive at the conclusion that my comment implies that build date has anything to do with the OEM watrranty? All I meant by that is that more than three years have passed since the last one was built.


Factory warranty is from date of delivery, not build date. I understand it wasn't your point, but there are thousands of GTO's that are still under the base factory 3 year 36,000 warranty, mine included.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Ok that looks settled to me so let's move on to something else. LOL.


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## DirtyJgTo (Sep 6, 2009)

just as an fyi you can definitely still find cars out there for less that what you’ve come across...( Find Your Car: Used Pontiac GTO Listings Near Allentown, NJ 08501 - AutoTrader.com) i count 9 cars on this search alone asking 22500 or LESS for cars with less than 25k on them....
i searched for mine for 4 mths and found one from a private seller with less than 15k on the odometer...car is mint and i paid less than 18k...also used USAA as the loan provider ...its easier to deal with a dealer but ive always gotten a better price from private sellers...only issue with USAA(if its a private seller) is you have to have the seller fax the front and back of the title to them before they cut you a check...besides that its a breeze!!! good luck on whatever you settle on!!!!


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

I went dealer and got 2006 with 9,300 miles on it with about $5k worth of mods on it. Pretty sweet. I would have searched better if I had more time, but time was getting short. I am happy with the purchase, gas is going to kill me but I bought a fast azz car so I am fine with it. LOL.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

You'll be happy with it. It's almost hard not to be happy with one of these cars! Some mods actually increase gas mileage but, of course, that's all relative to the weight of one's right foot......


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

HP11 said:


> What does that have to do with my comment? That wouldn't be the OEM factory warranty, right?


It was an example that the standard 3/36 wasn't the only warranty GM offered for the GTO at time of purchase. Pontiac also provided a GM extended factory warranty for an optional fee when purchased new.



HP11 said:


> On the other point, how did you arrive at the conclusion that my comment implies that build date has anything to do with the OEM watrranty? All I meant by that is that more than three years have passed since the last one was built.


Review the sentence you wrote (highlighted) in the post I quoted below. Sorry brother but I'd call that a statement saying no 04~06 GTO is currently covered under the Original Equipment Manufacture's warrany because the last one rolled off the line on 6/14/2006! :cheers



HP11 said:


> The factory warranty was 3 yrs/36K mi. *There wouldn't be any 04-06 GTO still under the original factory warranty since the last one built would have a build date of 6/14/06 IIRC*. I forgot to mention that KBB is for non modded cars. (Thanks, Frank)


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## johnasaurus (Sep 14, 2009)

*06 for sale right here!*



dquack said:


> I am looking for a GTO and deadset on a low mileage vehicle. I have been pre-approved and trying to decide on which one to get. I like the 2006 cause it is newer, but when you really look at it the 2005 and 2006 have very little changes nothing really big. I did notice the price differences between the 2005 and 2006.
> 
> A 2006 with 15,000 miles goes for $20k-24k
> A 2005 with 15,000 miles goes for $15k-19k
> ...


Beautiful ORANGE 06 M6 7700 miles $22K right here in the forum. RIGHT NOW!


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

johnasaurus, he already bought one. (Post #30)

Red Bearded Goat, do go by what I write, go by what I meant to write......there was supposed to be an 'unless' line following that.:cheers


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## CChase (Dec 11, 2007)

Just don't want mis-information spreading, there are a few guys that have factory warranty (non-extended) out to June of next year and possibly beyond. There were this spring still some new GTO's for sale here on the east coast which when purchased would be under 3/36 until 2012 sometime. Kind of exciting.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I actually looked at a 'brand new' 2006 at a dealership here in Southern California (San Diego). There must not have been many on the west coast. Over a roughly 9 month period, I must have looked at every GTO available in So Cal before buying mine and that was the only unsold new one I saw. I ended up buying the 05 that I have now and it came with an extended warranty but not from the factory. It was transferred to me without cost. I believe it goes to 2013. I'll likely void that somehow if I haven't already since I do my own work and they require printed records for the service.


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## johnasaurus (Sep 14, 2009)

HP11 said:


> johnasaurus, he already bought one. (Post #30)
> 
> Red Bearded Goat, do go by what I write, go by what I meant to write......there was supposed to be an 'unless' line following that.:cheers


Ooops, I skipped too far ahead!


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## Tacmedic (Feb 24, 2006)

*Hope you enjoy it...*

.but i would have bought from an individual. There is nothing evil about dealers, but they have overhead and have to make money off the car. I'd rather leave him out of the deal.

let us know how it does on the Autobahn


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## FastFrank (Jun 12, 2009)

Tacmedic said:


> let us know how it does on the Autobahn


Definitely! I would really like to take my GTO to the autobahn and see what it would do.


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## dquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Oh believe me many you tube videos and pictures. I just have to figure out which son is going to hold the camera going down the autobahn. 13 or 17 - I think both will have their jaws on the floor mats. LOL. It should get to Germany around X-mas time (Oh my own christmas present). Once spring hits I plan on attacking the autobahn with a fury. Once I do get the videos uploaded I will post the links on here.


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## FastFrank (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice. I'm looking forward to seeing the videos.


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