# replaced head gaskets, now car cranks but does not run



## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

Well I got around to putting my heads back on everything looks good plumb it up and it wont start, we reconfirmed timing, plugs and wires everything looks good. While cranking tried adjusting the dizzy and just got a few backfires threw the carb, TDC was reconfirmed rechecked all the plumbing and we are just at our witts end. Pontiac are new to use what would be some beginner tips on getting it to fire? oh and spark, fuel, and carb have all been checked out and looking good, cant let this car gather dust any longer in my garage its a depressing sight, the car has a stock 350 with msd distributor and ignition box.


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## Colorado67GTO (Sep 11, 2014)

Check compression. The exact same thing happened to me. I had my valves adjusted too far down and was not getting any compression.


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

Thanks will definitely look into that, the rockers were torqued to 20ft lbs I'll recheck also was going to check the spark plugs they are hand tight?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

when you reconnected your plug wires did you remmember that the distributor runs counter clockwise?

so the firing order must be on the distributor cap that way.....if you have done lot's of Chevy's easy to forget...


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

I did, rechecked it again today, and a wild hair up my butt told me to pull a valve cover, long behold there is a rod missing, only place for it to go would be inside the engine? Can I fish it out or looking at some major work? I'm at work right now so can't get back at it till tomorrow so I get to stew about it lol


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

Take a picture. There's not much way to lose a pushrods. You may have your distributor 180 degrees off.


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## 29585 (Aug 4, 2013)

seems basic but....did you check that dizzy is not 180 degrees out? When I rebuilt mine my rotor was pointed at #1 but at the top of the exhaust stroke, so 180 deg out, took me a few hours to figure it out lol.


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

I'll take a better one when I can, this is what I saw when I pulled the valve cover, one doesn't look like the others...


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

I just don't see how an intact pushrod could make it into the valley. You sure you don't have one laying around in the shop? Maybe missed one as you were putting them in?


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

Ya pretty sure it's somewhere I'm going to keep looking no idea where the damnd thing is lol


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

*...........*

its bent and laying in the lifter valley

sure looks dry in there ... wheres all the lube ???

all those rockers should have oil on the rocker balls and it sure looks dry

did you put some assembly lubube on the pushrod to rocker contact area ?

top of the valve ? on the rocker ball folkrum ??

are any of the other pushrods super loose ?


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

Yup bent in the valley tray, Its lubed but didn't used assembly stuff figured it wasn't a balls to the wall rebuild but there's the result it was pulled under the cam a bit anyway new parts going to step back and take it in before we re engage


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

1970lemonhead said:


> Yup bent in the valley tray, Its lubed but didn't used assembly stuff figured it wasn't a balls to the wall rebuild but there's the result it was pulled under the cam a bit anyway new parts going to step back and take it in before we re engage



Very nicely done. :thumbsup: Always cool to have parts to display to friends. 

OK, just had to edit. It may be the picture and how the rocker arm is positioned, but is that the correct rocker arm? When I blow up the photo it gets a little blurry, but it appears as if the distance from the pushrod cup to the rocker arm stud appears shorter. 

So now to figure the why of the damage. First thing I would look at is the rocker arm slot. If you have a high lift cam, you will need aftermarket rocker arms which have the "long slot" where they fit down onto the rocker arm stud. The factory arms have a short slot and when a higher lift cam is used, the rocker arm slot will not be long enough to allow the rocker arm to pivot full tilt, thus binding on the rocker arm stud and bending the pushrod. Figure 1 from Crane Cams http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/instructions/22e_.pdf

Next, if the rocker arm went sideways for some unknown reason (typically the factory rocker arm nut has backed off), this can cause the pushrod to bind and bend as the rocker arm goes sideways. Had this happen and bent a pushrod. Mine looked a little more artistic than yours as it had more of an "S" shape to it. I had used the 7/16" BB Chevy studs (not the bottleneck 3/8" studs that get torqued down) and used the factory style locking nuts as opposed to the polylocks. Sure enough, the locking nut did back off and when I check the others, found a couple more that were backing off from their zero-lash adjustments. Installed a new pushrod and the polylocks and no more issues.

Make sure your rocker arm is not hitting the valve retainer - again in the Crane Cam PDF. You might want to also check valve train geometry to make sure the rocker arm is positioned correctly on the top of the valve stem. Lunati covers this very simply in their PDF How to Verify Valvetrain Geometry - Lunati Power

If for some reason the valve stuck or hit the top of the piston - which it probably did not - this could cause the pushrod to bend as something has got to give.

So do some checking on your valvetrain to make sure all is well and when you get it re-assembled, I would pull the coil wire and have someone crank the engine over as you observe the operation of your valves. Seeing it is just the 1 valve, I suspect it may have just been a fluke and the rocker arm slipped off binding the pushrod. I might also make sure that the rocker stud, which is pressed in on the 3/8" bottleneck studs, did not pull up under the lifting force of the binding pushrod - heck check them all anyway as it could have been a rocker arm stud that did pull up some causing the rocker arm to slip off.

Lets us know what you find out and we can go from there if needed. :thumbsup:


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Good work finding that! 

Now someone may recommend reusing that pushrod............but no not me 

If you do re use it, you will have to bend the block and the crank sideways, which takes a lot of time and is hard to get right. The crank will bind and the block may crack, so best thing is a new pushrod, and following Jims advice on trying to find the cause so you don't have a second matching pushrod develop.

Lashed up some yesterday, and as we were doing it my friend, a real good pontiac engine builder said you know if you don't get these lashed in just right they can work lose from the rocker, and wreak havoc in the engine. 

Here is the thing you did good work and found it, and many folks would not, so hang it here you may have no damage except for the pushrods.

An easy repair. Stay with it!:nerd::nerd:


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement guys, I have read that this Pontiac being a stockish (no internal changes) would just be torqued and its set. The working theory between me and my friend is that it was caused when the engine backfired and that was the ball game, it was running great for about 30 sec, gave the throttle a flick, backfired and died then it would just crank. I only have Tuesdays that I am free to work on this project but I see light at the end of the tunnel. I will post updates when I get them and hopefully make a few videos :grin2:


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## 1970lemonhead (May 14, 2016)

Got it going, besides the push rod tapping out the distributor was off by 2 teeth fixed that initial timing is at 10 deg idle. If thats off please let me know but it purrrs better then ever, maybe I'll get to close the hood soon. Thanks guys for all the input learned a lot and look forward to digging deeper into thus ol car. It just idled so far I'm out of time to run it longer.


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

*pushrod*

Thats GREAT news !!!

nice job .................................

I know who's havin a barley pop tonite !!!

:grin2:

Scott


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Wow... I guess it's possible it could have somehow fallen down into the pan but not really likely. Something you might try: drain all the oil, leave the drain plug out, take a big strong magnet and move it around on the bottom of the pan to see if you make hear it moving. *Might* get lucky and be able to manuver it over to the pan drain hole and fish it out, if it's there. If it's in there, could also be laying on top of the windage tray in which case you're going to have to pull the engine and open it up. With my luck, it'd get all wrapped around the crank and take the rest of the engine out with it.

You choice, of course, but if it were me - unless I could be certain of exactly what happened, I'd be pulling the engine and opening it up.

Bear


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## Jspeed (Sep 11, 2017)

You mentioned that the rockers were torqued to 20 ft lbs That's not the correct way to adjust them .You need to get the piston to tdc with both valves closed tighten to zero lash then tighten 1/2 turn more for hyd . Lifters


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Jspeed said:


> You mentioned that the rockers were torqued to 20 ft lbs That's not the correct way to adjust them .You need to get the piston to tdc with both valves closed tighten to zero lash then tighten 1/2 turn more for hyd . Lifters


The non-high performance Pontiac heads which do not have the screw-in studs use a 3/8" bottle neck rocker arm stud and they get torqued down per factory specs. 

They do not get adjusted as you pointed out. :nonod:


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