# Sticky  Gert the Goat: 67 GTO



## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I've finally gotten around to pulling together the pictures I've got. This is my 67 GTO. I've named her Gertrude.

This is the ebay image that stole my heart:









My fiancée said she’d buy me a classic car to restore with my dad as a wedding gift. I just had to pick out the car and stay within budget. My search included a 67 GTO, 68 Charger, 70 Challenger, and 67 Camaro. I found this on eBay summer 2021. We bought it sight unseen. 

She looked good enough and was listed as a numbers-matching HO. The big plus was that she was running.









Running motor is always a plus!









Most of the rust looked superficial:









The chrome could use some love:









Quarter needs some work:









Same with the other side:









4 on the floor!









The interior looked pretty good(ish):









Floor is shot though:









I'm at my limit for attachments, so I'll have to continue the story on the next post...


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I had the car shipped to my parents' place where the garage and tools were at.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

It was a few months before I was able to go see her, but I got to work right away:









I started pulling out the interior:









Mouse nests everywhere!









My dad decided to show me how to do some patchwork:









And completely schooled me:









We got her mostly cleared out:









And ready for the next steps:


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I'm lucky my dad is retired and wants to keep working on her while I'm at work. He got the front clip pulled off:









And the motor out:









Turns out she's not an HO, but I love her anyway:


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I finally got a chance to head up to help my dad with the car over the holidays.

First step was getting the rest of the interior out:









While my dad welded some bracing in:









We got the body off the frame:









And on a cart:









The frame needs a lot of love:









Some of the body mounts are shot:









And the front pass side is bent in by about an inch:









But the body seems good and she's gonna stay that way!









Ready to get to work:


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Got pics of the tags and number stampings:



























































The kickpanels had more rot than we'd anticipated:


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

New outer rocker in:









At this stage, I was getting nervous and kept adding more bracing (probably in all the wrong places) when my dad wasn't looking:









Found some interesting stamping by the trunk and decided to take a pic:









Driver side outer rocker in and I took this opportunity to put some xmat in as well:









With the floor and trunk pans offering no support, we wanted to lift the body uniformly from the trunk and the door mounts on the front. The supports go straight down in the back. We'll have to figure out something new once we get ready to replace the trunk pan:









This is my first shot at welding. It looks like the top of a snickers bar:









Got the pass side wheel house in:


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

At this point, I had to head back to work, but my dad is keeping the project going. Here are the new kick panels pieces going in:

















Passenger side looks like new!

























The body mounts on the firewall were rotted:









So my dad fabbed some repairs:









Fitting the driver rear quarter:









Buuuut the rear doesn't quite work out:


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

And the rocker area will need some work:









While my dad does all that, I try to contribute by doing mini projects in the only work space I have in my apartment--the bathtub:


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

It's a tremendous undertaking for you, especially since it seems like this is your first go around with a project of this magnitude. Lucky you have a great dad. 

Repo body panels suck... but it's what there is. Best of luck to you on it all. 67 is a worthy year to do.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> It's a tremendous undertaking for you, especially since it seems like this is your first go around with a project of this magnitude. Lucky you have a great dad.
> 
> Repo body panels suck... but it's what there is. Best of luck to you on it all. 67 is a worthy year to do.


Thanks! Yes, I’m very lucky. I definitely wouldn’t have had the courage to cut into the car like this if he weren’t there. My dad has been handy as long as I can remember. He once built a go kart with some square tubing and a rototiller engine when I was a kid.

It works out well because he can scratch the itch while he waits for parts on his project—most of which are coming from the UK.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Based on the limited amount of quarter panel rust, wouldn't it be better to use a patch panel rather then the whole quarter, especially given the poor fitment of the entire quarter?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Based on the limited amount of quarter panel rust, wouldn't it be better to use a patch panel rather then the whole quarter, especially given the poor fitment of the entire quarter?


I agree and I think that will be the plan. We're going to try to use as little of the piece as possible. The wheel arch is rusted out as well as both dog legs on the quarter. I couldn't find patch pieces for the front and rear dog legs, so we had to pick up the full quarter.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

I know aftermarket panels suck, but Im actually surprised that the quarter is as far off as it shows in the picture. Thats not even close. Any chance thats a 66 quarter and not a 67?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> I know aftermarket panels suck, but Im actually surprised that the quarter is as far off as it shows in the picture. Thats not even close. Any chance thats a 66 quarter and not a 67?


Yea the Ames catalogue notes that it's actually a 66 panel. Luckily the original tail portion is in good shape.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Excellent work, and excellent photos detailing your work -- please keep the updates coming. The casting date of the engine on January 5th matches up good with the data plate showing the build date as the third week of January. PHS documentation would confirm that it is the original engine and list other build options.

I have a restoration project that I never got going on that is a close match to your car. Fathom Blue car also but with an automatic, black vinyl top and black interior and a little less rust. It's also out of the Pontiac plant. We stripped it down years ago and only the body shell and frame are outside in the weather but everything else is inside the barn. Luckily the Southern California winters are mild.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

lust4speed said:


> Excellent work, and excellent photos detailing your work -- please keep the updates coming. The casting date of the engine on January 5th matches up good with the data plate showing the build date as the third week of January. PHS documentation would confirm that it is the original engine and list other build options.
> 
> I have a restoration project that I never got going on that is a close match to your car. Fathom Blue car also but with an automatic, black vinyl top and black interior and a little less rust. It's also out of the Pontiac plant. We stripped it down years ago and only the body shell and frame are outside in the weather but everything else is inside the barn. Luckily the Southern California winters are mild.
> 
> ...


Very nice! It could be a good year to pull it into the garage and get it on the road. Hagerty says this will be a hot year for GTOs! (not that I'll ever sell mine)


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I picked up a G Force crossmember to give the frame a little more rigidity, but I ran into the same problem someone else on this forum did. The mounting holes didn't quite line up.

I had to squeeze the frame a bit with a ratchet strap to get the mounting bolts in. I'm concerned this is going to make for some problems down the line--namely that I'll never be able to uninstall/reinstall without the body off the frame. Or that it might create some issues with my body mount points lining up. I'll see if I can get some pictures of it later.

Has anyone else done this? Also if this question should be posted in the "Frame" forum, I can move it there. Thanks!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> I picked up a G Force crossmember to give the frame a little more rigidity, but I ran into the same problem someone else on this forum did. The mounting holes didn't quite line up.
> 
> I had to squeeze the frame a bit with a ratchet strap to get the mounting bolts in. I'm concerned this is going to make for some problems down the line--namely that I'll never be able to uninstall/reinstall without the body off the frame. Or that it might create some issues with my body mount points lining up. I'll see if I can get some pictures of it later.
> 
> Has anyone else done this? Also if this question should be posted in the "Frame" forum, I can move it there. Thanks!


You are good where you are, just keep the photos coming. 

I don't think I would be "squeezing" the frame you don't really know which side of the frame is pulling in as it may not pull in even and then your driveline angle could be off center with the trans tail kicked over to one side or the other and a driveshaft angle that could cause issues later.. I would either add some metal to the ends of the crossmember, make a short adapter plate with holes for the crossmember and holes for the frame and bolt it together, or wallow out the holes(?).

Keep in mind that the factory crossmember uses a rubber cushion on the ends of the crossmember where it bolts up. If you eliminate this, again, you can change driveline angles. If you place an incline meter (bought at Home Depot/Lowes) and place it on the engine on a flat area, (generally not the intake as it can have a slight rise to its carb surface), you want about a 3 1/2 degree tilt to the rear. Should give you an idea if your crossmember is OK, or even if the trans mount is too thick (which seems to be on some aftermarket mounts).


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> You are good where you are, just keep the photos coming.
> 
> I don't think I would be "squeezing" the frame you don't really know which side of the frame is pulling in as it may not pull in even and then your driveline angle could be off center with the trans tail kicked over to one side or the other and a driveshaft angle that could cause issues later.. I would either add some metal to the ends of the crossmember, make a short adapter plate with holes for the crossmember and holes for the frame and bolt it together, or wallow out the holes(?).
> 
> Keep in mind that the factory crossmember uses a rubber cushion on the ends of the crossmember where it bolts up. If you eliminate this, again, you can change driveline angles. If you place an incline meter (bought at Home Depot/Lowes) and place it on the engine on a flat area, (generally not the intake as it can have a slight rise to its carb surface), you want about a 3 1/2 degree tilt to the rear. Should give you an idea if your crossmember is OK, or even if the trans mount is too thick (which seems to be on some aftermarket mounts).


What are the tolerances for something like that?

When I say squeeze, it was barely 1/8”. It looks like the tranny mount has some comparable play where I might be able to move left or right slightly. And I’m hoping to be able to shim up or down to get things aligned.

I’ll have to reassess once we get the body mounts repaired on the frame. Based on what you’re saying, this could be problematic down the line if I don’t get things 100% straight and lined up now.

We did some initial measuring based on the Service Manual, but it was tough to find the center points of the body mount holes because they’re rotted out. And the book seems to be missing some measurements that would be helpful—specifically the diagonals.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Regarding the frame dimentions, attached are 2 pages from my chassis shop manual. Although it does not give dimensions for diagonals, it does give you points from where to measure. I assume that a 67 frame is very close or similar to a 66.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Regarding the frame dimentions, attached are 2 pages from my chassis shop manual. Although it does not give dimensions for diagonals, it does give you points from where to measure. I assume that a 67 frame is very close or similar to a 66.
> View attachment 149849
> 
> 
> View attachment 149851


Thanks for attaching these pics. I remember taking a drafting class in highschool (way back when) and they said for lines where they don't give a figure, it generally means there's enough info to do the math and calculate the missing figure. I'll have to dig into my memory banks for the trigonometry needed to figure out the "y" measurement. Then again the text in your attachment specifically says the figures aren't given. I'll have to give it another think when I'm back at the car again.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

The diagonals are shown so that you can take the measurements and verify that they are equal. Meaning, both "X" dimensions are the same value as with the both the "Y"s and "Z"s. Equal dimensions in these areas proves squareness regardless of the actual diagonal values. Be careful applying Trig to the given dimensions. The dimensions shown in the top view might seem applicable to Pythagoras theorem or Trig functions, but realize that the reference points are NOT in the same plane which will throw the results off. This is likely a 3 dimensional problem. For example, try to stretch a string from spot to spot for the "X" dimension...you can't do it because the string will hit the outward and downward curve in the frame making it impossible to get a spot-to-spot measurement. I believe that all the dimensions given are in a single plane. This would mean you would have to project the spots downward to the floor and then take the measurements off the floor. The 3 dimensional aspect of the frame would be best suited for modeling in a 3D drafting software for accuracy's sake.

Without laying the frame out on a proven level and flat surface, checking a frame is not that straight forward. That's why frame straighteners get the money they do for their work and available equipment.

Down and dirty, you should be able to check (with your highly calibrated eye-crometers - in other words...by eye and tape measure) the dimensions that have values assigned to them and then pick some spots to check the diagonals for squareness (preferably along the same lines as "X, Y, & Z").


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Sick467 said:


> The diagonals are shown so that you can take the measurements and verify that they are equal. Meaning, both "X" dimensions are the same value as with the both the "Y"s and "Z"s. Equal dimensions in these areas proves squareness regardless of the actual diagonal values. Be careful applying Trig to the given dimensions. The dimensions shown in the top view might seem applicable to Pythagoras theorem or Trig functions, but realize that the reference points are NOT in the same plane which will throw the results off. This is likely a 3 dimensional problem. For example, try to stretch a string from spot to spot for the "X" dimension...you can't do it because the string will hit the outward and downward curve in the frame making it impossible to get a spot-to-spot measurement. I believe that all the dimensions given are in a single plane. This would mean you would have to project the spots downward to the floor and then take the measurements off the floor. The 3 dimensional aspect of the frame would be best suited for modeling in a 3D drafting software for accuracy's sake.
> 
> Without laying the frame out on a proven level and flat surface, checking a frame is not that straight forward. That's why frame straighteners get the money they do for their work and available equipment.
> 
> Down and dirty, you should be able to check (with your highly calibrated eye-crometers - in other words...by eye and tape measure) the dimensions that have values assigned to them and then pick some spots to check the diagonals for squareness (preferably along the same lines as "X, Y, & Z").


This is super helpful and exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Floor is getting checked for fitment today!


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Did you ever get the PHS documents to see exactly what your car came with originally? Might not make a difference to you in the restoration, but it is definitely interesting to have that info.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Did you ever get the PHS documents to see exactly what your car came with originally? Might not make a difference to you in the restoration, but it is definitely interesting to have that info.


Yes. Here's what the previous owner sent me:


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Cool, looks like you have the original motor. At least, a correctly coded WT motor.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> Yes. Here's what the previous owner sent me:
> View attachment 149881
> 
> 
> ...



You did not get an "HO" car/engine. You have the 335HP base version. With those options, it was a daily driver (probably cheaper on insurance as well) and not purchased for the "performance" factor. BUT, you can change that.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> You did not get an "HO" car/engine. You have the 335HP base version. With those options, it was a daily driver (probably cheaper on insurance as well) and not purchased for the "performance" factor. BUT, you can change that.


I've got some big plans! But not too big. I'd like to put in a Butler stroker kit to start.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Getting the floor pan fitted, but it seems like the curves of the trans tunnel are a bit different between the two repro parts. Floor is AMD and toe boards are from Ames, which I assume are Dynacorn. My dad is planning to make some relief cuts in the floor to make it fit and weld in some patches. I'm having a tough time visualizing what he's planning but I'll see next week when I head up to help him.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Got a chance to head up and work on the car. I finally relented and bought the three-piece trunk. I'd been holding out for a 1-piece, but after calling around, it sounded like there wasn't going to be anything in stock until this summer.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Getting the quarters ready for repair, but we're running into the weirdest thing: The replacement panels don't round out like the original metal does. It almost drops straight down in a flat line (didn't get pictures of it). We're trying to figure out what the issue is. We might have to roll the refab metal to match the original body lines.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

We noticed there's a bit of bowing in the metal under the trunk lock. Is this the way it was from the factory? Or is my car just a little bit special? We're fabbing some metal to replace the rot, but don't want to make it wrong. Any help or pics would be greatly appreciated!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

This piece doesn't quite line up either. We're trying to figure it out, but thinking the wheel well is missing some metal...


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Some more pictures of the progress!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

The package tray looks like it might salvageable. I really don't want to have to replace it...


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Here's a picture of how I squeezed the frame a bit to get the G Force crossmember in. Per Jim's recommendation, I'll probably make some mounts that fit the frame as is.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> View attachment 150446
> View attachment 150447
> 
> 
> The package tray looks like it might salvageable. I really don't want to have to replace it...


 Package shelves are not being reproduced. Chevelles are not the same size. I have not attempted to install my chevelle tray but might be able to lay it in place if you need some kind of reference.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> You did not get an "HO" car/engine. You have the 335HP base version. With those options, it was a daily driver (probably cheaper on insurance as well) and not purchased for the "performance" factor. BUT, you can change that.


Lol. Compared to my build sheet, his looks like a salt-flats record breaker.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> We noticed there's a bit of bowing in the metal under the trunk lock. Is this the way it was from the factory? Or is my car just a little bit special? We're fabbing some metal to replace the rot, but don't want to make it wrong. Any help or pics would be greatly appreciated!


There should be a slight "peak" or crown at the center. Not too easy to see with Cameo Ivory


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

67ventwindow said:


> Package shelves are not being reproduced. Chevelles are not the same size. I have not attempted to install my chevelle tray but might be able to lay it in place if you need some kind of reference.


I appreciate it. It may be some time before we are able to get to the package tray. Fixing the rot under the tail light is slow going, because it's all fabrication (can't find repro pieces) by hammer and dolly.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> There should be a slight "peak" or crown at the center. Not too easy to see with Cameo Ivory
> View attachment 150457
> 
> View attachment 150456


Oh wow, I didn't even notice that! I'll keep it in mind when we rework that piece.

The bow that I was asking about is a curve up from the ground. I drew a red line on the image I'd posted to show it. It's tough to see in the picture, but it almost looks like someone put a tow hook there and pulled straight up.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Hey @armyadarkness, how much trouble does NJSP give you for your window tints? Do you get fixit tickets often?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I don't get tickets, but I'm also a very respectable driver. They usually reserve those tickets for trouble-makers. Yes, the law is that ALL forward tint is illegal in Jersey.

Also, when you explain that you tint because your car can be stolen with a pencil and a band-aid, they get it. It's not like Im tinting because Im looking to pop a cap in some cracker.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Hey @armyadarkness, how much trouble does NJSP give you for your window tints? Do you get fixit tickets often?


Don't know how I missed that you're in Jersey. Im usually yelling at users for not posting their locations. Im down South, but from up North, and I cover the whole state when Im out cruising. Shoot me a PM with your contact info and I'll bring the car out. Ive rebuilt two 67's, a 66, and a 72.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I don't get tickets, but I'm also a very respectable driver. They usually reserve those tickets for trouble-makers. Yes, the law is that ALL forward tint is illegal in Jersey.
> 
> Also, when you explain that you tint because your car can be stolen with a pencil and a band-aid, they get it. It's not like Im tinting because Im looking to pop a cap in some cracker.


Hey Amy, your looks great! Are your pinstripes painted on or ? I need to get mine striped.
Thanks


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes they are original, painted on by the dealer!


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Yes they are original, painted on by the dealer!


Sweet !! When I had my car painted in 83 I never got the pinstripe done.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I can't imagine my car without them. In fact, on the passenger fender they're almost worn off, but I leave it that way for the mojo


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

My dad got the rest of the that piece made and welded in. He replicated the bend in the original metal across the back, which I'm now thinking was the result of a collision.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)




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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I don't get tickets, but I'm also a very respectable driver. They usually reserve those tickets for trouble-makers. Yes, the law is that ALL forward tint is illegal in Jersey.
> 
> Also, when you explain that you tint because your car can be stolen with a pencil and a band-aid, they get it. It's not like Im tinting because Im looking to pop a cap in some cracker.


I don't think I'd be able to get away with it. I have terrible luck with that sort of thing.

I once had a cop swing over and block traffic on the FDR to approach me with his gun and have me walk my motorcycle to the side. He mistook me for someone else hooliganing and I caught the rap for it. I can only imagine the wrath I'd incur in my neck of the woods with tints on my GTO.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Trunk is getting fitted and frame is being repaired.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Looks great so far. Really moving very quickly.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Where did you get that doughnut. I have used a cutting torch to make large round holes in flat stock. That would make life so much easier,


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

67ventwindow said:


> Where did you get that doughnut. I have used a cutting torch to make large round holes in flat stock. That would make life so much easier,


I picked up a bag of 14 of them from Ames for $33. Part number S388.

You could probably pick some up from a specialty hardware spot like Fastenal or McMaster-Carr if you don't need all 14.

ID 1 1/2", OD 2 3/4"

Alternatively if you don't mind waiting a bit, I can see if I have any leftover once the frame repairs are done.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> Where did you get that doughnut. I have used a cutting torch to make large round holes in flat stock. That would make life so much easier,


Bro. I design fab parts in CAD, all day long, and I have a 48"x48" CNC plasma cutter, in my shop. If you need something, just say so.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes, even if I make them for free, it would cost big bucks to ship anything. Shipping sucks, anymore


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Drewm said:


> Looks great so far. Really moving very quickly.


I texted you a few times to see how you were coming along. Never heard back from you, so I assume your phone issues are persisting?


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Bro. I design fab parts in CAD, all day long, and I have a 48"x48" CNC plasma cutter, in my shop. If you need something, just say so.


 I have an issue with the bumper holes. So its not a big thing.

But if you have one of these hanging around we can talk.






I might have round my retirement job,


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> Trunk is getting fitted and frame is being repaired.
> 
> View attachment 150637
> 
> ...


Nice fab work, your dad is is a big help it looks like !


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

66COUPE said:


> Nice fab work, your dad is is a big help it looks like !


Thanks! 

I'm starting to feel guilty because he's doing the lion's share of the actual work.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm starting to feel guilty because he's doing the lion's share of the actual work.


I’m curious, with your frame, and the rust situation are you having the whole thing dipped or treated in some way ?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I'm planning to hit the whole thing with a needle scaler, patch any weak points, then coat it all with POR15.

I also plan to box it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Personally, I wouldnt hammer that frame with a needle scaler, but it looks like your dad knows what he's doing, so if that's his advice, take it.

Sand blasting would be so much easier and more effective, especially if you can hire a mobile guy to do it for you.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Personally, I wouldnt hammer that frame with a needle scaler, but it looks like your dad knows what he's doing, so if that's his advice, take it.
> 
> Sand blasting would be so much easier and more effective, especially if you can hire a mobile guy to do it for you.


What are your thoughts on the needle scaler? Do you think it would damage the frame?

We'll have to wait until spring to do the sandblasting. We usually do it in his other (usually empty) garage, so we can sweep/reuse the media but his MG is stored there for the winter.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> What are your thoughts on the needle scaler? Do you think it would damage the frame?
> 
> We'll have to wait until spring to do the sandblasting. We usually do it in his other (usually empty) garage, so we can sweep/reuse the media but his MG is stored there for the winter.


I’ve never used one but seems to me it wouldn’t get into all the nooks and cranny’s, like sandblasting would, let’s see what other’s think that have done it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

If you're sand blasting with siphon, then yeah its a pain. I like the gravity guns... theyre much more efficient. If you have the frame free and clear, all you need is a cup brush on an angle grinder and you'll make quick work of it.

Needle scaling is good for flaky crust type rust, but on patina it will just dimple the crap out of it, not get into the nooks, AND give you vibration sickness.

Por 15 likes a tooth, so whire wheel it, wash it with acetone, and paint it up!

If there's one thing Im an expret on, it's sand blasting GTO's in Jersey!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> If you're sand blasting with siphon, then yeah its a pain. I like the gravity guns... theyre much more efficient. If you have the frame free and clear, all you need is a cup brush on an angle grinder and you'll make quick work of it.
> 
> Needle scaling is good for flaky crust type rust, but on patina it will just dimple the crap out of it, not get into the nooks, AND give you vibration sickness.
> 
> ...


That...does not look fun. I'll bet you were washing blasting media out of your hair for weeks!

That paint looks sharp though! Hard to believe it's original!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Not all of it's original, but a lot is. It has checking in many places... I lucked out, a doctor owned my car. Yes... there is sand in my GTO, which no human will ever see.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> ... there is sand in my GTO, which no human will ever see.


 I blasted bits of my car in the late eighties for a partial restore (firewall, and nooks around the body for a repaint), not to the extent that you did, but the car is now going frame off and sand is still coming out of it. You had to be careful rolling the windows down at speed as the sand would start blowing around in the cab and get in your eyes (even though you could not see it laying around the car sitting still - it was there)...You can't spend too much time vacuuming and blowing sand out after a blasting expedition!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

This helps... It was the prototype and has now been revised.

A hollow bar with inline skate wheels on each end. A single quick connect on one side, connects to a 48" extension wand on my pressure washer, and the three jets now also have quick connects, which accept any pressure washer nozzles. 

I use pin jets for mud, rust, and debris, 45 degree fans for salt, 25 degree fans for grease and oil. Or I mix them.

Then after cleaning, I connect it to my back pack sprayer and spray CRC Saltaway, or Simple Green, or Armor All... depending on the job, then lather, rinse, repeat.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

My dad had to dig part of the old trunk pan out of the scrap pile and add a piece to cover the missing metal, but it's coming along!


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Just curious, did your father do a lot of metal fab work in his past? Really coming along nicely.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Here is my sand blasting set-up. I purchased a 110 lb pressure sand blaster from Harbor Freight. Worked good until it didn't. What I learned - 110 lb is a lot of blast media, I use "Black Beauty" sand which is inexpensive. Water in the air lines is your enemy. The sand blaster worked great at first, no issues at all. Where the issues come into to play is that the shape of the bottom of the unit, and how the sand pick-up tube inserts into the base, you never completely siphon off all of the media. You don't always use up all the sand on a project, so you leave it in the tank. Moisture from the air lines seeps in and into the sand - even though you have a small water separator, humidity still forms moisture in the air lines after it passes through the water separator. The stuff clumps and/or eventually hardens in the bottom, and clings to the sides. Now it stops working well. NO amount of banging on it or cleaning seems to get it clean, but you don't like getting beat by a stupid sand blaster, so you get it as clean as possible and try to keep going until it jams up again. So you beat on it more, get the sand flowing BUT much slower, until it jams up again. So you pull it all apart, clean it, put in fresh sand, and it works, but the sand flow is minimal and you can only sand blast veeeeeery slowly. You finally get disgusted and stop using the blaster - and put some thought into a fix.

Aha! I purchased the smaller 40 lb sand blaster because it does not hold as much sand and I can use all the sand in it more quickly, just have to fill a little more often which is no big deal. BUT, the moisture is still going to be a problem. So what I did was I used the 110 lb blaster unit as a "water trap." I installed an air coupling fitting in the base of the 110 unit where the sand would normally come out of - this is where I connect the air line coming from my compressor. At the top, where the air would normally pressurize both the tank and blow the sand out of the coupling at the base to the gun, I modified. I only needed air to now come out of the top fitting, rather than go in. I pieced my steel extension pipe into an open/close ball valve and then to a pressure regulator/water separator fitted at top. This way I can shut the air off that will exit the top line that goes out. On the air outlet side of the regulator, I used a male airline coupling (no way to shut off, so the ball valve does this). So what I have created is a water separator/air tank with an adjustable pressure regulator/water separator which I can move around and keep closer to my work. Any moisture/water that enters the base, will drop out of suspension and I am pulling dry air off the top of the tank. Anything that might get by, get captured by the regulator/water separator on the way out.

Next I made a 25 hose having the brass threaded fittings on each end. Rather than have a male air line fitting on one end and the female airline coupling on the other end, I used 2 female air line couplings. I can now connect one end to the air tank, and the other end to my smaller sand blaster OR any air tool/spray gun I have. If using a spray gun, I would use another water filter at the gun and an air pressure gauge so I know the air pressure I am spraying paint with

This set-up has worked flawless - no more problems with the sand clumping up or getting wet and turning to cement inside the blast tank. The trick is to find the right balance between sand flow out of the tank and air pressure pushing/siphoning it out to the gun. You have ball valves you will have to play with to balance out air/sand flow. Once you get it correct, it blasts preety good.

I did try a siphon type sand blaster/bucket after my 110 blaster stopped working, but these are only good for very small jobs as they are slow and not to efficient. The "Black Beauty" media is only good for the first use. I have done the reclamation of it trying to sift/reuse it again, but it breaks down on the first use and the grains are much smaller/smoother and do not cut as well. Might be good on aluminum or clean metal, but if blasting layers of paint or heavy rust, it cuts slower and you have to take more time to do the job.

On my brother's '48 truck, it has multiple layers of paint. I first use a paint stripper, to get the paint up. I scrape the bubbled up paint with a putty knife and razor blade paint scraper. I apply a second coat of paint stripper on some areas that have a lot of paint. Then wash with water to get the stripper off, then wipe that with lacquer thinner. Next you can sand or sand blast. The sand blasting can work fairly fast once you have most of the paint scraped off. The sand leaves a cleaned, but roughed up, metal surface. Then wipe this off with a lint free rag/lacquer thinner, and it is ready for primer. 

Here is a picture of the 110 lb and 40 lb sand blaster I have. I could only find the 1 photo showing how I have the 110 lb blaster made up as my air tank, and the smaller blaster I use to blast with. You can see the pressure regulator/water separator on the big tank and how the hose connects to it and then the smaller tank. Both can be moved around with ease.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Just curious, did your father do a lot of metal fab work in his past? Really coming along nicely.


He did! He was an airplane mechanic back when I was born. He worked on F4 Phantoms among others on the USS Midway, then ran the body shop at a the bus depot where I grew up.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> He did! He was an airplane mechanic back when I was born. He worked on F4 Phantoms among others on the USS Midway, then ran the body shop at a the bus depot where I grew up.


We can tell, so cool, My dad couldn’t glue two sticks together.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> Here is my sand blasting set-up. I purchased a 110 lb pressure sand blaster from Harbor Freight. Worked good until it didn't. What I learned - 110 lb is a lot of blast media, I use "Black Beauty" sand which is inexpensive. Water in the air lines is your enemy. The sand blaster worked great at first, no issues at all. Where the issues come into to play is that the shape of the bottom of the unit, and how the sand pick-up tube inserts into the base, you never completely siphon off all of the media. You don't always use up all the sand on a project, so you leave it in the tank. Moisture from the air lines seeps in and into the sand - even though you have a small water separator, humidity still forms moisture in the air lines after it passes through the water separator. The stuff clumps and/or eventually hardens in the bottom, and clings to the sides. Now it stops working well. NO amount of banging on it or cleaning seems to get it clean, but you don't like getting beat by a stupid sand blaster, so you get it as clean as possible and try to keep going until it jams up again. So you beat on it more, get the sand flowing BUT much slower, until it jams up again. So you pull it all apart, clean it, put in fresh sand, and it works, but the sand flow is minimal and you can only sand blast veeeeeery slowly. You finally get disgusted and stop using the blaster - and put some thought into a fix.
> 
> Aha! I purchased the smaller 40 lb sand blaster because it does not hold as much sand and I can use all the sand in it more quickly, just have to fill a little more often which is no big deal. BUT, the moisture is still going to be a problem. So what I did was I used the 110 lb blaster unit as a "water trap." I installed an air coupling fitting in the base of the 110 unit where the sand would normally come out of - this is where I connect the air line coming from my compressor. At the top, where the air would normally pressurize both the tank and blow the sand out of the coupling at the base to the gun, I modified. I only needed air to now come out of the top fitting, rather than go in. I pieced my steel extension pipe into an open/close ball valve and then to a pressure regulator/water separator fitted at top. This way I can shut the air off that will exit the top line that goes out. On the air outlet side of the regulator, I used a male airline coupling (no way to shut off, so the ball valve does this). So what I have created is a water separator/air tank with an adjustable pressure regulator/water separator which I can move around and keep closer to my work. Any moisture/water that enters the base, will drop out of suspension and I am pulling dry air off the top of the tank. Anything that might get by, get captured by the regulator/water separator on the way out.
> 
> ...


My dad has the same setup, though not as efficient as yours. He's only got the one. I don't know much about his water separator situation, but I'm sure I'll be coming back to this post when we inevitably clog his sandblaster.

I was planning on going with Black Beauty and saving some $$$ with reclamation, but you say it isn't nearly as effective the second go-around. Do you find this to be specific to Black Beauty? Or is that generally the situation I'll run into regardless of blasting media?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

66COUPE said:


> We can tell, so cool, My dad couldn’t glue two sticks together.


I appreciate the kind words and I know he will too.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

While my dad works his metal magic, I'm at home gluing plastic bits back together with epoxy and chip clips.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> I appreciate the kind words and I know he will too.


I know your along way off but I have a really nice original complete black 67 dash pad in the secret stash.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

66COUPE said:


> I know your along way off but I have a really nice original complete black 67 dash pad in the secret stash.


That would be amazing! I was going to try my hand at restoring the one I have with a Polyvance kit, but a secret stash dash sounds way better. I'll PM you.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> That would be amazing! I was going to try my hand at restoring the one I have with a Polyvance kit, but a secret stash dash sounds way better. I'll PM you.
> 
> View attachment 150696


I wish I had more, I had so much great stuff from a clean 67 we parted out in the 80’s , then my buddy hit hard times and I “loaned “ him most of the parts. He’s gone and so are the parts he took , lessons learned


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> View attachment 150691


Again, Jim hit the nail on the head... There's a reason why I use the small gravity feed gun... it works. Yes, you need to fill it more or use a bigger tank, but it works.

Everyone tries to use sand that's damp or unsifted, and it just doesnt work. On the siphon blasters, you need to have at least a 200 gal compressor, because theyre so inefficient, and on those Harbor Fright pressure tanks, the outlet plumbing is far too restrictive to do anything. 

Whether it's weeds, paint, or sand blasting, nothing is worse that trying to spray something, and instead spending 3 hours trying to get your equipment working.

If you look in my pictures, you'll notice that the sandblaster Im using is the size of a 2500 series pickup truck... I found a local blaster and gave him $200 bucks to come to my house and do it. It was harder to jack up the car and tape everything off then it was to blast. The entire job took 2 hours to bring the entire under side down to bare metal.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Time for an update! Work's been a little busy, so I haven't had time to share the progress. Old quarter and door skin off. New metal on!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

And some work on the door.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Got a kink in the door trim, but I'm hoping this is something I can hammer/polish out.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

While my Dad's been working on the car up north, I've been doing my own little projects.

I've been piecing my plastic grill surrounds with some epoxy and dremeling.





































It's not perfect, but with a little paint and some more TLC, I'm hoping it won't be too noticeable.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

The steering wheel is next, but that's a work in progress.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Even mom is joining in to help out!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> While my Dad's been working on the car up north, I've been doing my own little projects.
> 
> I've been piecing my plastic grill surrounds with some epoxy and dremeling.
> 
> ...


You guys are making awesome progress, at light speed! 

Looks like you have everything under total control. My tiny advice is to always add Fiberglass Mesh Tape to all of your plastic repairs. If you extend the tape throughout the repair and overlapping well onto the existing part, you'll dramatically increase the completed strength


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> You guys are making awesome progress, at light speed!
> 
> Looks like you have everything under total control. My tiny advice is to always add Fiberglass Mesh Tape to all of your plastic repairs. If you extend the tape throughout the repair and overlapping well onto the existing part, you'll dramatically increase the completed strength


Ah crap! That's a great piece of advice. I'll have to do that when I inevitably redo the repair.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Ah crap! That's a great piece of advice. I'll have to do that when I inevitably redo the repair.


Use fiberglass, sheetrock repair tape and then epoxy over it. Ive done some intense stuff with it.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I have used this site for their information from repairing radiator shrouds to fixing a stock tank. 





Polyvance - We help people repair plastic


Polyvance provides everything needed for plastic repair and to refinish automotive plastics. Buy Online. CLICK HERE NOW!




www.polyvance.com


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

67ventwindow said:


> I have used this site for their information from repairing radiator shrouds to fixing a stock tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That exactly where I got my stuff from! I love the shapeable molds they provide and the epoxy cures in seconds.

The fumes are pretty noxious though. I got myself into a little trouble when the Mrs. walked in on me using it in the kitchen with the windows closed.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> I have used this site for their information from repairing radiator shrouds to fixing a stock tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought my first plastic welder in the early 90's... Which was quite hilarious, because my brother and I used to heat butter knives over a candle and then use the to repair our GI Joe stuff, when we we little kids.

The tech hasnt changed! It's just a matter of knowing what your working with.

Last year I repaired a 16" crack on the bottom of a 500 gallon stock tank. You just need the correct rods!

That being said, many of our car parts mandate epoxies, to meld unlike surfaces and such. Polyvance is awesome!


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

66COUPE said:


> I’m curious, with your frame, and the rust situation are you having the whole thing dipped or treated in some way ?


Dipping not always feasible, it was a non-starter for me. Eastwood sells an internal frame spray product for places you can‘t reach. It alleges to encapsulate rust. I used it and it covered well. The nozzle releases a radial spray. I think it’s worth checking out. My guess is there are other brands that do the same.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

My dad just sent me this update. 2 hours of work with the BHA Black Hawk disks.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> My dad has the same setup, though not as efficient as yours. He's only got the one. I don't know much about his water separator situation, but I'm sure I'll be coming back to this post when we inevitably clog his sandblaster.
> 
> I was planning on going with Black Beauty and saving some $$$ with reclamation, but you say it isn't nearly as effective the second go-around. Do you find this to be specific to Black Beauty? Or is that generally the situation I'll run into regardless of blasting media?


Black Beauty is all I use as I can purchase it just right up the road from work and it is reasonably priced, although it was $9.99 and just went up to $12.99 a 50 lb bag.

When I pour it into my blaster, there looks to be almost a fine powder/dirt, so I am not sure exactly what it is, but it is dusty. So you are blasting with this dust as well as the black beauty sand - what ever it really is. I have certainly made the effort to reclaim the sand by putting a large tarp under whatever I am blasting to capture it. Then I have a screen to sift the sand through and into a bucket to re-use in the blaster. Just seems that it takes much longer to blast a section/item and I go through more of it to do the same work as compared to the first use. If I am working on a Sunday, and run out of sand and just need to finish the job, I will salvage some sand and re-use it. But otherwise, I make it a 1 time use and am done with it.

Other stores offer blasting sand, like Harbor Freight, but it is not cheap - and I am! LOL

I actually got some pictures of my set-up last weekend when I was using it. On the left is the larger 110 lb blaster which I first purchased. Worked great, but over time the moisture/water in the lines stopped it up as the sand got damp/wet and clumped up and no longer works at all and repeated cleaning/removing the sand just became a pain in the butt. The problem, in my opinion, it the base is rounded and becomes a flat spot where the hose connects at the base. So a collection point over time for water. They should have made the base flat sided and taper down to the hose connection - most indoor/industrial/cabinet sand blasters are made this way.

You can see my air hose connects at the base of the larger blaster using quick connect air line fittings. At top, I have the outbound air coming out the pipe and a shut-off valve that goes into my air pressure regulator and water/separator. It is also fitted with a quick connect. (Second pic is a closer view). The valve is used to shut off the tank and let it build pressure and to shut air off to my smaller blaster.

The line coming out from the regulator then goes into my smaller 40 lb blaster. That line is attached directly to the air fitting, no quick disconnect. You can see I added a shut-off valve going into the top of the tank to pressurize it. I can regulate the pressure that forces the sand out the bottom. When you buy the unit, it does not have this valve and the airline is a direct hook-up. You can then see another shut-off valve that goes down to the base - this is what blows the sand out the blaster nozzle (this is factory). AND you also have another shut-off valve at the base that is used to regulate how much sand is dumped/siphoned out the blasting hose and out the nozzle (this is factory). The non-factory item is my added shut-off valve.

I have found you want to find a balance between how much air pressure is being applied at the top of the tank/above the sand that forces the sand out the base. Then you have to regulate the air being applied at the base that forces/siphons the sand through the hose and out the blast nozzel. Then you want to regulate how much sand flows out the base. Too much and you don't get enough air pressure to really blast - you get a stream of sand. So you have to play with this to get the amount correct where you have enough sand to blast with and not too much were it is spewing sand and doing nothing else.

You can see that the hose end going into the small tank is directoy screwed into the fitting - no quick disconnect fiting.This way I can disconnect the small blaster from the larger blaster at the quick disconnect end, and then use the larger blaster/tank as my water separator by connecting an air hose to it and whatever tool/spray gun on the other end as normal. This keeps air out of my tools.

So far, seems to work. My theory is that any moisture/water entering the base of the larger tank will be hard pressed to make its way up top to the air outlet. I figure it should drop out of suspension by that point. Then if any does make it, the regulator/water separator will catch it. For spray painting, I do have another specific made short hose having a built-in filter/pressure and air gauge/knob regulator so I can fine tune my air pressure at the spray gun.

So the key is to keep moisture out of the sand, and keep the sand out of the tank if it is going to set until you get back to it in a couple days or weeks. Just put only what you plan on blasting so as to empty the tank out and then tip it upside down when done to remove any remaining sand.

These blasters are far from professional but can be a good inexpensive set-up for home use if you want to do your own blasting - and can put up with some frustrations trying to get things working correctly. I did the frame on my Lemans and the underside of the floors without issues using the larger tank. Problems were later on.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> When I pour it into my blaster, there looks to be almost a fine powder/dirt, so I am not sure exactly what it is, but it is dusty.


Historically, it was coal-slag. Not sure if they've reinvented it with a synthetic.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Black Beauty is all I use as I can purchase it just right up the road from work and it is reasonably priced, although it was $9.99 and just went up to $12.99 a 50 lb bag.
> 
> When I pour it into my blaster, there looks to be almost a fine powder/dirt, so I am not sure exactly what it is, but it is dusty. So you are blasting with this dust as well as the black beauty sand - what ever it really is. I have certainly made the effort to reclaim the sand by putting a large tarp under whatever I am blasting to capture it. Then I have a screen to sift the sand through and into a bucket to re-use in the blaster. Just seems that it takes much longer to blast a section/item and I go through more of it to do the same work as compared to the first use. If I am working on a Sunday, and run out of sand and just need to finish the job, I will salvage some sand and re-use it. But otherwise, I make it a 1 time use and am done with it.
> 
> ...


Sand blasting at home is definitely a lesson in patience. No homeowner has an air compressor with a enough CFMs to do anything beyond a few minutes of blasting... and that's just one of the many aspects which makes it suck out loud. However, I see that you're well versed in the suck out loud, already!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> Sand blasting at home is definitely a lesson in patience. No homeowner has an air compressor with a enough CFMs to do anything beyond a few minutes of blasting... and that's just one of the many aspects which makes it suck out loud. However, I see that you're well versed in the suck out loud, already!


The things I say under that hood should never be heard by man. Hate sand blasting! LOL


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Sand blasting at home is definitely a lesson in patience. No homeowner has an air compressor with a enough CFMs to do anything beyond a few minutes of blasting... and that's just one of the many aspects which makes it suck out loud. However, I see that you're well versed in the suck out loud, already!


I consider myself a home owner as I own my home...lol. My 5 HP Saylor-_Beall_ compressor will keep up with my craftsmen blaster hand gun for as long as I can stand it. I'd say I run 15 to 20 minutes before the googles are dust covered and I have to stop for a clean-up break. You can tell a slight difference between just starting and a minute into the job, but it's not disheartening like the old 2 horse I had. I'm betting it puts out about 20 CFM at 100psi.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

My compressor in my welding shop is industrial, 10hp and 90 gallons, and the tank is empty and motor kicking back on, after 3-5 minutes. Once the motor kicks on, I stop because there's too much of a drop in pressure.

However, that's with siphon, which wastes a ton of air.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Finally got the car on the rotisserie this past weekend. It was certainly the most nerve-wracking thing we've done to date. I picked up a Redline Stands rotisserie. Part of me wishes I'd sprung for the version with the worm gear crank, but the extra $500 was tough to stomach. Passenger quarter is on. Next steps are to finish the welds, rebuild the rear window channels, and do the passenger door.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I also started pulling the seats apart. The springs look to be in good shape so far. The frame will need to be rebuilt.

It's been slow going getting this apart. I've been trying to get the hog rings off between gagging fits every 10 seconds. Not pictured here, but there was a HUGE mouse nest that threw up a lot of lovely dust into my face. I sandblasted one of the side panels and it looks good. The back isn't as great, but looks repairable. Just need to figure out what gauge metal to get.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

🤢


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Do not buy springs from any of the vendors. Theirs are too stiff.
Buy from the Seat Guy.
He's on Facebook, just send a message requesting information about his seat kits.









The Seat-Guy: Classic Seat Restorations


The Seat-Guy: Classic Seat Restorations, Snohomish, Washington. Отметки "Нравится": 550 · Обсуждают: 6. I restore seats for 50's, 60's and 70's vehicles.




www.facebook.com





You will find broken springs and start wearing your N95 when taking this old stuff apart. Coronavirus is a lightweight compared to the Hantavirus from field mice


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> Do not buy springs from any of the vendors. Theirs are too stiff.
> Buy from the Seat Guy.
> He's on Facebook, just send a message requesting information about his seat kits.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely check him out.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

My next step is to repair the pot metal steering wheel pieces. Here is one of the pieces sandblasted, sanded, and pits drilled out.








The plan is to fill the pitting and then powdercoat with Prismatic SuperChrome/Clear Vision. I'm still trying to figure out a metal I can use to fix the pitting that will still hold up to the 375F cure heat for the powder coat. I found some nonlead solder with a 430F melt temp, so I'm hoping that works.

I didn't have much luck with it using my soldering gun. I think it's because the tip wasn't fine enough to get into the pits and heat up the piece resulting in a cold solder. The solder popped out when I went to sand if flush. Gonna try again with a fine tip iron and see how that turns out.

If that fails, I'm gonna try the JB weld extreme heat paste which looks like it'll fill the pits nicely and cure into a sandable resin.

I know many of you might be asking why the hell I'm putting so much effort into a low cost piece?!
This is my trial run for how I hope to repair my metal center console. If I can fix the steering wheel pieces, I'll have a great way to restore the metal center console without shelling out an arm and a leg for a rechrome/replacement. Wish me luck!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Looks like I might be going with the JB weld. Getting the solder bead to go where I want is damn near impossible.










And 2 of the 3 test solders popped out when sanding. Although the one that stayed in doesn't look too bad.


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## Rick1967GTO (Aug 28, 2017)

What a great project. I wish I had the skills to do this. Love the pix.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I highly doubt that the solder would ever stick to your base part. It'll likely stick to the thin chrome plating, but the base is either aluminum or magnesium, and you wont be soldering either of those.There are so many high temp epoxies out there that its easily your best route


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I highly doubt that the solder would ever stick to your base part. It'll likely stick to the thin chrome plating, but the base is either aluminum or magnesium, and you wont be soldering either of those.There are so many high temp epoxies out there that its easily your best route


I was hoping it'd work like brazing such that if I heated the base metal enough, it'd suck the solder into the pitting, but no such luck. Muggy Weld sells something that seems like it'd be perfect for this, but the melting point of 325F is too low for me to powdercoat the piece afterwards. 

The epoxy paste comes in the mail today, so I'll give that a shot next.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yeah... the Muggy stuff is great for you screen door... If youre insistent, bring them to a welder and have them tig'd with silicon bronze. 

And even though Im a welder who does a lot of tigging with silicon bronze, id use this!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Here's where I'm at with the paste. It doesn't look very pretty, but I'm hoping after some sanding and TLC, it'll turn out ok. Waiting for it to cure the full 24 hours before I tackle the next step.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

After spending about 10 mins with each piece and 150 grit sand paper, I'm realizing I could have used a lot less paste. The pits are smoothing over nicely. Finger check feels like it's coming along. 

I'll probably need to use my dremel to shape up the edges a bit, but it's looking good so far.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> After spending about 10 mins with each piece and 150 grit sand paper, I'm realizing I could have used a lot less paste. The pits are smoothing over nicely. Finger check feels like it's coming along.
> 
> I'll probably need to use my dremel to shape up the edges a bit, but it's looking good so far.


I love it when someone thinks the way through an expensive problem. The steering wheel pieces fix is very cool. I hope it works well for your project. I have been known to spend way too much time to save a Benjamin on refurbishing car parts, albeit not stock looking to some degree in the end. At least the money is not going overseas! I look forward to seeing the results.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

The sad part about this particular repair, is that IME, the "chrome" powdercoat isnt going to yeild an appearance, worthy of his gallant efforts and accomplishments.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> The sad part about this particular repair, is that IME, the "chrome" powdercoat isnt going to yeild an appearance, worthy of his gallant efforts and accomplishments.


I'm generally ok with this for the interior pieces. Since the replacement parts for this type of steering wheel only come in "brushed aluminum" finish with black buttons, I'm ok with however the powder chrome turns out.

I wouldn't repair any of my exterior pieces in this way, however. My headlight bezels and vent window pillars are going to El Paso Electroplating.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I think the pieces will turn out well. Maybe not too true to the originals, however. Consider doing some other interior parts with the same powder coat...that will help tie it in. AC vents, Sun visor pieces, shifter, etc.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Here's the final shot of the pieces before I powder coat them (next time I'm at my Dad's garage).

I worked up to 150 grit. I started getting nervous because I was noticing some low spots. The sandpaper was taking the paste off faster than the steel. I think I spent too much time using the 100 grit.

The flat parts went easy, but the curved sides were tough to sand evenly with a flat block. It was also pretty hard to shape the edges with the dremel. It took too much material off at once, so I had to be real careful. My hands aren't the steadiest. It definitely won't be concourse.

Next time, each pit will get just a dab of paste rather than spreading it over a few holes. If I were spray painting, I'd try the MuggyWeld for sure.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

More steering wheel progress. Primed and sanded to look for low spots. Now refilling the spots I missed. 

I'm a big fan of this Polyvance stuff. It sets in seconds, sands well, and I can hardly feel a difference at the spots that have been repaired. The real test will be how it looks once it's painted.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks for the pics and info. Keep up the great work. The condition of our projects is similar so I'll be looking forward to more pics as you progress..


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Mini update. Decided to look UNDER the frame and found a considerable amount of rot. Sourcing some metal now to patch it
















My dad got the frame horn straight.
















Hopefully I'll have a chance to make it up this weekend to sandblast the frame and try out my powdercoating on the steering wheel pieces.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I recommend that everyone should remove the bottom two steering gear bolts for inspection. You could be in for a shock when you see how badly the've deteriorated. My El Camino had never left Southern California yet both lower steering bolts were roughly half their normal diameter from the muck that sits in the bottom of the frame horn. There is a small weep hole there but its usually blocked by dirt and debris inside the frame.
The above photos say it all


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> I recommend that everyone should remove the bottom two steering gear bolts for inspection. You could be in for a shock when you see how badly the've deteriorated. My El Camino had never left Southern California yet both lower steering bolts were roughly half their normal diameter from the muck that sits in the bottom of the frame horn. There is a small weep hole there but its usually blocked by dirt and debris inside the frame.
> The above photos say it all


Now that I'm under there, should I drill out the weep holes a bit to allow more of the crud to flow through?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Time for another photo dump!

Found a weird single number stamp on my frame. "2" which I'm automatically taking to mean that is the second 67 GTO frame produced for the year. 

I didn't get to powdercoating the steering wheel pieces as I'd hoped, but we made some headway with the frame--sandblasting and POR15ing it.

One thing I've noticed on the frame is some of the welds are HORRIBLE. Can anyone tell me if factory welds were THIS bad? The welding wire is still sticking out at one spot. Part of me suspects someone worked on it at some point.

The angle grinder bit me, but luckily my hoodie was tougher than the wire brush.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Also got the roof insulation and dash insulation scraped out. The rotisserie was worth its weight it gold for this step. Also shown are some shots of the frame horn repairs in progress.

For the POR15, I used semigloss black. It looks SUPER glossy when it goes on, but it dries to a flatter color.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Also got the roof insulation and dash insulation scraped out. The rotisserie was worth its weight it gold for this step. Also shown are some shots of the frame horn repairs in progress.
> 
> For the POR15, I used semigloss black. It looks SUPER glossy when it goes on, but it dries to a flatter color.
> 
> ...


Very cool and nice job, might be a good time to put spacers under the motor mount brackets as a lot of us have had trouble with the drag link rubbing the oil pan, and trust me you don't want to try and do that job once the motor is in. I'm still scared from doing it.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Very cool and nice job, might be a good time to put spacers under the motor mount brackets as a lot of us have had trouble with the drag link rubbing the oil pan, and trust me you don't want to try and do that job once the motor is in. I'm still scared from doing it.


Great tip, thanks! I haven’t come across that in my research. How big a spacer do folks go with? And does that change the driveshaft angle significantly?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> Time for another photo dump!
> 
> Found a weird single number stamp on my frame. "2" which I'm automatically taking to mean that is the second 67 GTO frame produced for the year.
> 
> ...



The number "2" usually signifies Pontiac, it is not a production number. Does the partial VIN on the driver's side rear past the wheel well arch match the VIN on your body?

You frame has been spliced. That is why the crappy welds. The factory does not weld that poorly. Yes, they don't completely weld all seams on the frame and yes, you may find some pieces of wire stuck with the welds - I had that on my '68 frame. I also welded a little more on the frame seams.

Look at the picture where I circled the frame splice. My guess is they cut the engine cradle from the damaged frame section and then laid it onto the donor frame and welded it all up. I would have ground much of that bad weld out and then re-welded it.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

_One thing I've noticed on the frame is some of the welds are HORRIBLE. Can anyone tell me if factory welds were THIS bad? The welding wire is still sticking out at one spot. Part of me suspects someone worked on it at some point._

Yes they were that bad. Mine has the welding wire stubs all over. A little late now but you need to thoroughly examine the front upper A arm mounting brackets to frame weld, and the side rail channels to the front and rear sections. When I pulled the frame off of my 68 it was cracked down a defective factory weld. 
Story can be found here;





Cracked Frame - PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together


Cracked Frame 68-69 GTO Tempest & LeMans TECH



forums.maxperformanceinc.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Great tip, thanks! I haven’t come across that in my research. How big a spacer do folks go with? And does that change the driveshaft angle significantly?


I used 1/4" spacers, I don't think it affects it much maybe a little less angle, if it turns out to much you can use a spacer on the trans mount probably, less angle is better than more to a point but you still need some pre load angle. The old frames can spread out sometimes.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Also have you checked the frame for square and put it on a flat surface to see if it's tweaked up and down? PJ made a good catch from your photos.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> The number "2" usually signifies Pontiac, it is not a production number. Does the partial VIN on the driver's side rear past the wheel well arch match the VIN on your body?
> 
> You frame has been spliced. That is why the crappy welds. The factory does not weld that poorly. Yes, they don't completely weld all seams on the frame and yes, you may find some pieces of wire stuck with the welds - I had that on my '68 frame. I also welded a little more on the frame seams.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jim. That might explain why the engine cradle seemed to be in better shape/newer than the rest of the frame. Might have to go back and grind/redo/refinish some of the more questionable welds. I wasn't able to find a VIN anywhere on the frame after much looking. My guess, is it got lost to the rust scale.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> _One thing I've noticed on the frame is some of the welds are HORRIBLE. Can anyone tell me if factory welds were THIS bad? The welding wire is still sticking out at one spot. Part of me suspects someone worked on it at some point._
> 
> Yes they were that bad. Mine has the welding wire stubs all over. A little late now but you need to thoroughly examine the front upper A arm mounting brackets to frame weld, and the side rail channels to the front and rear sections. When I pulled the frame off of my 68 it was cracked down a defective factory weld.
> Story can be found here;
> ...


We examined the frame pretty extensively for spots needing repair, but we'd assumed the shoddy welds were factory original. Now I'm thinking a little different and might go back and redo some.

I ordered new suspension parts and I'm itching to get them on. All those shiny parts sitting in their boxes are just begging to be installed.

Parts I grabbed:
-UMI upper and lower A arms
-UMI upper and lower rear control arms
-BMR 1" lowering springs
-Hotchkiss shocks
-Wilwood AFX 2" lowering spindles
-Wilwood front brake kit

And I've got a Currie 9inch rear end on its way.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Also have you checked the frame for square and put it on a flat surface to see if it's tweaked up and down? PJ made a good catch from your photos.


Yea we set the frame on some square stock on the floor (otherwise the bottom of the rounded engine cradle touched the floor first). We didn't see any wobble and we measured at the body mounts to check that it was square. I think we were about 1/4" off, which I was assured was factory fine by a local frame guy.

I'm gonna look into ordering some motor mount spacers. I figure it couldn't hurt while I'm there.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

I've got a 67 GTO project car that we stripped down and couldn't believe the welding around the front cross member. Some of the welds are a quarter inch away from the target seam, and there were dozens of wire hairs left on the welds. At the time we figured it was a newbie welder on the production line. I rewelded everything and we moved on to other projects. This worked out pretty good because 20 years later the old and new have the same patina after being left out to the elements (Inland SoCal so our elements are wimpy compared to the rest of the country).


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Frame welds fixed and frame boxed (though I don't have pics of that yet). The Currie 9 inch rear end finally came. Turnaround time from date of order was 3 weeks.

Gonna por15 that as well and start getting the frame back together. I just ordered an assembled third member from Currie as well. Does anyone know if I need to set the lash? Or would I just be checking Currie's work, more or less?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Frame welds fixed and frame boxed (though I don't have pics of that yet). The Currie 9 inch rear end finally came. Turnaround time from date of order was 3 weeks.
> 
> Gonna por15 that as well and start getting the frame back together. I just ordered an assembled third member from Currie as well. Does anyone know if I need to set the lash? Or would I just be checking Currie's work, more or less?
> 
> ...


Nice! I was getting worried you bailed on us 😉 what gear ratio you going with?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Currie is the one to answer that, but I assume that it's already set to perfection.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Nice! I was getting worried you bailed on us 😉 what gear ratio you going with?


Yea, I keep meaning to post, but life keeps getting in the way!

I went with 3.50. I'm hoping with that mated to a Tremec TKX and a hot cam 461 stroker, it'll give me a good balance between cruising and gofast.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Yea, I keep meaning to post, but life keeps getting in the way!
> 
> I went with 3.50. I'm hoping with that mated to a Tremec TKX and a hot cam 461 stroker, it'll give me a good balance between cruising and gofast.


That sounds like a plan, wide or close ratio trans? I'm running a 3:42 with a 4spd 2.98 first gear, 461


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> That sounds like a plan, wide or close ratio trans? I'm running a 3:42 with a 4spd 2.98 first gear, 461


I’m really torn between the two. Is there a big difference in driving feel between the two? Wide has a shorter first gear, right? I might go with whichever will let me putt along in stop n go traffic with the clutch out. My motorcycle has a tall first gear and constantly feathering the clutch in NYC traffic around here has made my left arm bigger than my left. I can’t have the same happen to my leg!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

You'd have to ask someone with one but I suppose it depends on your rear gear, army just did his, here's Tremecs chart...I think the 2.87 first with your rear end will be fun plus it has a lower 5th gear for cruising. The 3.27 first gear I've heard is almost to tall and your out of it in no time, you would be able to start in 2nd most likely.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Another factor before we get into correct ratios is what tire size you plan on running. For instance my original F70/14 tire was about 26" tall (ok - 26.2"). I run a 275/60R15 tire which is right at 28" tall, and that 2" almost perfectly equals out a standard ratio change. A 3.36 with a 26" tire pretty much works out very close to a 3.55 with a 28" tire. I run the 2.87 first gear with the Tremec, 3.73 Dana 60 rear, and the 28" tall tire. Really perfect when I get caught in traffic with keeping the clutch out down to about 4 MPH before having to feather it. My old wide ratio Muncie 2.52, 28" tire, and a 3.36 rear had a light fragrance of clutch in the air under the same circumstances.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

My opinion is; with a Pontiac you don't really need a ton of bottom end gearing, because the engines torque characteristics, naturally give it low end grunt. This is why the ram air heads and cams were designed to produce power in the mid and top.

I have 3.36 gears with the wide ratio TKX, and it's a bit too low... I couldve been happy either way. But if you want my opinion... a stroker version of an already torquey motor, with 3.55's, doesnt need any mor low end. You're just going to roast tires and need to shift in .3 seconds. Seems like a waste.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

lust4speed said:


> Another factor before we get into correct ratios is what tire size you plan on running. For instance my original F70/14 tire was about 26" tall (ok - 26.2"). I run a 275/60R15 tire which is right at 28" tall, and that 2" almost perfectly equals out a standard ratio change. A 3.36 with a 26" tire pretty much works out very close to a 3.55 with a 28" tire. I run the 2.87 first gear with the Tremec, 3.73 Dana 60 rear, and the 28" tall tire. Really perfect when I get caught in traffic with keeping the clutch out down to about 4 MPH before having to feather it. My old wide ratio Muncie 2.52, 28" tire, and a 3.36 rear had a light fragrance of clutch in the air under the same circumstances.


I plan to run a similar tire size to you. Riding along at 4mph with the clutch out sounds perfect.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> My opinion is; with a Pontiac you don't really need a ton of bottom end gearing, because the engines torque characteristics, naturally give it low end grunt. This is why the ram air heads and cams were designed to produce power in the mid and top.
> 
> I have 3.36 gears with the wide ratio TKX, and it's a bit too low... I couldve been happy either way. But if you want my opinion... a stroker version of an already torquey motor, with 3.55's, doesnt need any mor low end. You're just going to roast tires and need to shift in .3 seconds. Seems like a waste.


Thanks for the heads up. I might have to see if Currie has an exchange program for the third members before I roast too many tires!

This definitely makes me feel better about spending the extra $ on a Currie 9 inch knowing it'll be easier to swap out the diff if it doesn't work out.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I might have to see if Currie has an exchange program for the third members before I roast too many tires!
> 
> This definitely makes me feel better about spending the extra $ on a Currie 9 inch knowing it'll be easier to swap out the diff if it doesn't work out.


No need to swap with Currie. The old Ram Air Judges had 3.73's and 4.10's... So just get the close ratio Tremec with the 2.87 first and taller 5th gear. At the end of the day, the only thing that's going to save your tires and suspension is your good judgement. 

Based on what little I know of you, I would have lot's of spare tires and parts on hand.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Agree with the guys, you should be fine just don't run a tiny tire...I run a 28.2 tall tire also and I like my set up.


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

armyadarkness said:


> My opinion is; with a Pontiac you don't really need a ton of bottom end gearing, because the engines torque characteristics, naturally give it low end grunt. This is why the ram air heads and cams were designed to produce power in the mid and top.
> 
> I have 3.36 gears with the wide ratio TKX, and it's a bit too low... I couldve been happy either way. But if you want my opinion... a stroker version of an already torquey motor, with 3.55's, doesnt need any mor low end. You're just going to roast tires and need to shift in .3 seconds. Seems like a waste.


Absolutely agree. I'm running TH400 and 3.55s (safety track). With my moderately strong 400, the 3.55s were just right. But now, with the stroker kit, I can spin the tires through all three gears, even if I'm trying not to. I wish for a little less gear some days.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

michaelfind said:


> Absolutely agree. I'm running TH400 and 3.55s (safety track). With my moderately strong 400, the 3.55s were just right. But now, with the stroker kit, I can spin the tires through all three gears, even if I'm trying not to. I wish for a little less gear some days.


What size tires are you running? I'm going to try to cram as much rubber under that wheelhouse as I can.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> What size tires are you running? I'm going to try to cram as much rubber under that wheelhouse as I can.


Bare in mind that if you put big sticky tires, under a car with a manual trans and low gears, you're going to be breaking stuff a lot... Sometimes it's better to burn through skinny tires, than it is to pull over and run down the street to pickup your driveshaft. Just be mindful and build accordingly!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Bare in mind that if you put big sticky tires, under a car with a manual trans and low gears, you're going to be breaking stuff a lot... Sometimes it's better to burn through skinny tires, than it is to pull over and run down the street to pickup your driveshaft. Just be mindful and build accordingly!


I'm hoping to mitigate as much of that breakage as possible. I'm going with the 1350 yoke per PJ's recommendation mated to the TKX with a robust clutch (not sure which yet).

But keep me honest if I'm asking for trouble!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Obviously you're installing a Currie, but what about arms and bushings? Im assuming that you're also now going to use high-end tubular upper and lower control arms, with spherical joints, urethane bushings, and frame supports, too?

Always remember the old saying, strong as the weakest link!!! Which will now be your frame. 

Like I said, build accordingly, and remember, the car is 55 years old.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

> Obviously you're installing a Currie, but what about arms and bushings? Im assuming that you're also now going to use high-end tubular upper and lower control arms, with spherical joints, urethane bushings, and frame supports, too?
> 
> Always remember the old saying, strong as the weakest link!!! Which will now be your frame.
> 
> Like I said, build accordingly, and remember, the car is 55 years old.


I went with adjustable UMI stuff (w/rotojoints) all around: frame brace, shock tower brace, control arm reinforcements, upper/lower rear control arms, front/rear sway bars, and upper/lower A arms.

Frame is also boxed front and rear.

At this point I feel like I might as well have gone with a tubular frame.


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

GTO Yeah said:


> What size tires are you running? I'm going to try to cram as much rubber under that wheelhouse as I can.


I was initially running some skinny 14 inch tires. I changed to wider and taller: P275 60R15. It helped some and also made my speedometer closer to accurate. 
I have stiffer springs and drag bags in the springs so the ride height is not stock. These tires fit on my car but would probably rub on a stock stance. Plus, my rear end is from a 69, so it is a little wider than the original 65 rear end. Please don't tell the purists I have a 69 Judge rear under my 65! 🤣 Unless, of course they are willing to get me a custom fit 9" like Bear has so they can trade out for mine to put under their Judge.


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

armyadarkness said:


> Bare in mind that if you put big sticky tires, under a car with a manual trans and low gears, you're going to be breaking stuff a lot... Sometimes it's better to burn through skinny tires, than it is to pull over and run down the street to pickup your driveshaft. Just be mindful and build accordingly!


Been there, done that. I'm going to stay with street tires because it costs lots more money to repair all those damages than to replace tires more often. My ETs will not be as good, but I'm working on getting this launch thing down to a precise routine.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> I went with adjustable UMI stuff (w/rotojoints) all around: frame brace, shock tower brace, control arm reinforcements, upper/lower rear control arms, front/rear sway bars, and upper/lower A arms.
> 
> Frame is also boxed front and rear.
> 
> At this point I feel like I might as well have gone with a tubular frame.


I put tubular triangulation bars on mine so you might want to look into those, also have a 3" chrome molly shaft with forged ends and 1350's. I'm running 275/60/15 drag radials and UMI performance stock height springs but had to make some room in the wells and grind the quarter lip down somewhat because with a full tank hitting a good bump the tires rubbed. Now is the time that you can do modifications or roll the lip but idk how that looks. I would have all your parts installed and wheels and tires for a mock up before final body prep.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> I put tubular triangulation bars on mine so you might want to look into those, also have a 3" chrome molly shaft with forged ends and 1350's. I'm running 275/60/15 drag radials and UMI performance stock height springs but had to make some room in the wells and grind the quarter lip down somewhat because with a full tank hitting a good bump the tires rubbed. Now is the time that you can do modifications or roll the lip but idk how that looks. I would have all your parts installed and wheels and tires for a mock up before final body prep.


Good call. I was looking into rolling the fenders a bit. I'll have 1" lowering springs in the rear. I might pick up one of those wheel and tire simulators from Ames before I order my tires/rims.

How did you make room in the wells?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> I went with adjustable UMI stuff (w/rotojoints) all around: frame brace, shock tower brace, control arm reinforcements, upper/lower rear control arms, front/rear sway bars, and upper/lower A arms.
> 
> Frame is also boxed front and rear.
> 
> At this point I feel like I might as well have gone with a tubular frame.


Sounds like all the bases are covered! It's going to be interesting to read about your first year on the road with it. That's when you'll find out anything you missed. Cant be much at this point.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Sounds like all the bases are covered! It's going to be interesting to read about your first year on the road with it. That's when you'll find out anything you missed. Cant be much at this point.


With my luck, I'll get t-boned by someone my first day out.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

It doesnt sound like that would matter.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> With my luck, I'll get t-boned by someone my first day out.


 With luck like that we must be related. If I leave my house without my wallet that is the day I will get pulled over for a bad taillight.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Good call. I was looking into rolling the fenders a bit. I'll have 1" lowering springs in the rear. I might pick up one of those wheel and tire simulators from Ames before I order my tires/rims.
> 
> How did you make room in the wells?


I would try stock height springs first, Imo the 67's already sit lower or look that way at least because of the long big quarters, so another inch might not look good and you don't want it lower looking than the front unless you're going to lower the front two inches then you might run into tire clearance issues. The '65 has a bump out in the well above the tire so I cut that out on an arc then filled it then ground the quarter lip down to the screw heads just above the tires, it's not a professional job by any means but works and no one can see up in there. By the pictures I'm sure your dad can do a way better job.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> I would try stock height springs first, Imo the 67's already sit lower or look that way at least because of the long big quarters, so another inch might not look good and you don't want it lower looking than the front unless you're going to lower the front two inches then you might run into tire clearance issues. The '65 has a bump out in the well above the tire so I cut that out on an arc then filled it then ground the quarter lip down to the screw heads just above the tires, it's not a professional job by any means but works and no one can see up in there. By the pictures I'm sure your dad can do a way better job.


Oooo too late. I've already got the 1" lowering springs all around and the 2" lowering AFX spindles on the front for a slight rake. I might have a lot of metal reshaping in my future.

Thanks for the tip on the the wheel well!

I'm planning on rolling my fenders and I've got some oil canning in the rear left quarter. Do you think I should roll the fender and then fix the oil canning? Or the other way around?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Oooo too late. I've already got the 1" lowering springs all around and the 2" lowering AFX spindles on the front for a slight rake. I might have a lot of metal reshaping in my future.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the the wheel well!
> 
> I'm planning on rolling my fenders and I've got some oil canning in the rear left quarter. Do you think I should roll the fender and then fix the oil canning? Or the other way around?


I'm not a paint and body man so idk, that's going to be pretty low in front I'm thinking, you'll just have to see what tires will fit once it's together. I did one inch lowering springs in front and the 215/70/15's are close on the points.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> I went with adjustable UMI stuff (w/rotojoints) all around: frame brace, shock tower brace, control arm reinforcements, upper/lower rear control arms, front/rear sway bars, and upper/lower A arms.
> 
> Frame is also boxed front and rear.
> 
> At this point I feel like I might as well have gone with a tubular frame.



The stock rear sway bar will not fit the Ford 9" unless you purchased a sway bar specific to the larger center section of the 9". You have options, but I did a lot of fab work to keep the aftermarket stock sway bar and mount it facing out to the rear bumper and attached to the rear axle and frame - sorta like I see on these newer trucks with rear sway bars. You do need some manner of locating the rear axle with the roto-joints otherwise the axle can be free to move left/right and depending on amount, will rub right into the wheel well. As *Baaad65* pointed out, a 3-point track bar or what some big cars had - a simple panhard bar.

With the adjustable control arms, I made a jig to set them to the factory arms - and can then adjust from that point as needed.

I welded 2 large bolts that fit the rubber factory bushing holes to a scrap piece of I-beam I got from work. The bolts match the factory control arm positions where I can slip the control arms down on them without binding, and of course lift them off as well.

Then I adjusted my tubular control arms so they would slip right over the bolts as well. This way you can even out the amount of thread stick-out on each end and then snug up the nut. Then when installed, if you need to make any adjustments, you will have an equal starting point for each control arm. If you like what you have, you can tighten the bolts.

The beauty of the adjustable bars is that you can use the adjustment to move the tires forward/backward for additional clearance in the wheel wells if needed. You won't get a lot because you have to have a minimum amount of thread inside the bar, but if 1/2" made the difference between rubbing and not, then you could adjust this out. Soooooo, don't measure/order a new driveshaft until you know exactly were that rear pinion is going to be at with the car's full weight on it.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> The stock rear sway bar will not fit the Ford 9" unless you purchased a sway bar specific to the larger center section of the 9". You have options, but I did a lot of fab work to keep the aftermarket stock sway bar and mount it facing out to the rear bumper and attached to the rear axle and frame - sorta like I see on these newer trucks with rear sway bars. You do need some manner of locating the rear axle with the roto-joints otherwise the axle can be free to move left/right and depending on amount, will rub right into the wheel well. As *Baaad65* pointed out, a 3-point track bar or what some big cars had - a simple panhard bar.
> 
> With the adjustable control arms, I made a jig to set them to the factory arms - and can then adjust from that point as needed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for calling that out. You just saved me a mountain of headache. I owe you a steak dinner. I had no idea the rotojoints would allow more side to side motion in the axles. It was a complete blindspot for me. I don't have any experience with 3-point track bars or panhard bars. Which would you recommend? I assume this won't be a simple "bolt-in" job since the 67 didn't come with one originally? Looks like I have a lot of reading to do!

As for the sway bar, Currie says their 9 inch should be a direct bolt-in for the GTO with factory fittings. I hope that will include the sway bar. Otherwise I'll have to test out Summit's return policy! Your swaybar setup looks like an exercise in precision and patience. Beautifully done!

What made you built the jig for the control arm? Is it tough to adjust the new one? Or is was it more an easier way to know for certain you had the same length?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> I put tubular triangulation bars on mine so you might want to look into those, also have a 3" chrome molly shaft with forged ends and 1350's. I'm running 275/60/15 drag radials and UMI performance stock height springs but had to make some room in the wells and grind the quarter lip down somewhat because with a full tank hitting a good bump the tires rubbed. Now is the time that you can do modifications or roll the lip but idk how that looks. I would have all your parts installed and wheels and tires for a mock up before final body prep.


Sorry I didn't know what you meant by tubular triangulation bars before. I'd assumed it was the same as a control arm reinforcement brace. Sounds like I should definitely add some to my setup. Who did you go with for your triangulation bars? Was the install tough?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thank you for calling that out. You just saved me a mountain of headache. I owe you a steak dinner. I had no idea the rotojoints would allow more side to side motion in the axles. It was a complete blindspot for me. I don't have any experience with 3-point track bars or panhard bars. Which would you recommend? I assume this won't be a simple "bolt-in" job since the 67 didn't come with one originally? Looks like I have a lot of reading to do!
> 
> As for the sway bar, Currie says their 9 inch should be a direct bolt-in for the GTO with factory fittings. I hope that will include the sway bar. Otherwise I'll have to test out Summit's return policy! Your swaybar setup looks like an exercise in precision and patience. Beautifully done!
> 
> What made you built the jig for the control arm? Is it tough to adjust the new one? Or is was it more an easier way to know for certain you had the same length?



The jig just insured a common starting point that matched the factory bolt hole spreads. Otherwise, if I had one end screwed in more than the other, how would I know one was 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4" out more than the other? You want your tracking to be square or the car could be going down the road a little offset or eating up tires in a funny way. After the back's are what I believe are squared up, I would then run a tape measure from a point being the same on each side of the front tires/rims etc. and they should be the same measure on each side. I believe the alignment shops can square up the suspension with the equipment they now use, so that may do it too.

You will also want to adjust your pinion angles, up or down, as needed and you will use the adjustable control arms to dial that in as well, otherwise you may experience vibrations from the driveline as you drive down the road.

You may be returning the stock sway bar.

The panhard bar, and tri-angular bars for tracking do not replace the sway bar - 2 different items and purposes. Panhard and tri-bars simply keep the rear axle from moving side-to-side and centered under the car. Sway bar provides better handling characteristics. With the set-up I fabricated, the sway bar is also the means to keep the rear end centered.

Here is what you want and what I patterned my set-up after, except facing to the rear bumper - which I may find interferes with my gas tank, but I don't think so. Will know when I install that tank and may have to go with another option/size on the gas tank. this set-up also allows the body/suspension/rotojoints more free movement with the sway bar not bolted to the lower control arms - which can be improved handling and does not force twisting pressures on the lower bars.

Check out the video:









Pro-Series Rear Anti-Roll Drag Sway Bar - 1964-1967 GM A-Body: Chevelle, Malibu, GTO, etc.


Chevelle Rear Anti Roll Bar | A-Body Rear Anti Roll Bar | 1964-1967 A-Body, Chevelle, Malibu, GTO, etc. Adjustable Rear Anti-Roll Drag Race Sway Bar



www.spohn.net





You can see how I attached the sway bar to the axle. Made my own brackets and used cut length steel tube to insert through the frame and flush on the outsides so I could run a bolt through the brackets/frame and tighten the bolts without crushing the frame rails. Made lower brackets to attack lower link rod. Picture with the brackets and poly front sway bar bushings and I used a Grade 8 threaded rod to size.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Sorry I didn't know what you meant by tubular triangulation bars before. I'd assumed it was the same as a control arm reinforcement brace. Sounds like I should definitely add some to my setup. Who did you go with for your triangulation bars? Was the install tough?


They were on ebay I think CPP or UMI, don't get the thin bent metal ones and they were pretty easy to install, the top holes in the crossmember were there then they come with the longer bolt for the front of the lower control arm. They prevent you from tearing loose the crossmember since you have a manual trans and also went with South Side Machine lift bars to change the lift point more to the front of the car instead of way in front of it. I need all the help I can get with traction that's why I had to switch to drag radials because I was getting sideways with the regular tires.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> They were on ebay I think CPP or UMI, don't get the thin bent metal ones and they were pretty easy to install, the top holes in the crossmember were there then they come with the longer bolt for the front of the lower control arm. They prevent you from tearing loose the crossmember since you have a manual trans and also went with South Side Machine lift bars to change the lift point more to the front of the car instead of way in front of it. I need all the help I can get with traction that's why I had to switch to drag radials because I was getting sideways with the regular tires.
> View attachment 152556
> View attachment 152557


Thank you for posting the pics! I’m definitely out of my element with this suspension stuff and I appreciate you taking the time to post these pics.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> The jig just insured a common starting point that matched the factory bolt hole spreads. Otherwise, if I had one end screwed in more than the other, how would I know one was 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4" out more than the other? You want your tracking to be square or the car could be going down the road a little offset or eating up tires in a funny way. After the back's are what I believe are squared up, I would then run a tape measure from a point being the same on each side of the front tires/rims etc. and they should be the same measure on each side. I believe the alignment shops can square up the suspension with the equipment they now use, so that may do it too.
> 
> You will also want to adjust your pinion angles, up or down, as needed and you will use the adjustable control arms to dial that in as well, otherwise you may experience vibrations from the driveline as you drive down the road.
> 
> ...


Thank you for setting me down the right path. This is extremely helpful. I'm going to look into that sway bar you sent if I can't get the stock setup to work.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thank you for setting me down the right path. This is extremely helpful. I'm going to look into that sway bar you sent if I can't get the stock setup to work.


Not sure if it was mentioned, but just put roto joints at either the body or diff, one end of the arm or the other, not both. That will keep it located.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Not sure if it was mentioned, but just put roto joints at either the body or diff, one end of the arm or the other, not both. That will keep it located.


I'm so glad you said that. 

I just spent the last three hours researching panhard bars, triangulation bars, and watts links. No one makes anything for a GM A body that I could find, and I don't trust my math enough to fab a custom setup like PJs. Geometry was not my strong suit.

I was gonna swap the rubber bushings in the rearend for rotojoints, but now I think I'll keep them in. Hopefully that'll be enough. Worst case scenario, I can go down the fabrication path later if I find I'm getting too much lateral movement/wheel rub.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I have spherical joints at the body on my lowers and all urethane on the uppers, with frame supports and a heavy duty sway bar, and I have zero hop or bind. I was going to put spherical joints on the uppers at the diff, but Im not going to fix what isnt broken.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thank you for posting the pics! I’m definitely out of my element with this suspension stuff and I appreciate you taking the time to post these pics.


I'm no expert whatsoever so I've learned a lot and rely on this site, also bought the book Hook and Launch.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I'm no expert whatsoever


I can vouch for him


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

😂


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> I'm so glad you said that.
> 
> I just spent the last three hours researching panhard bars, triangulation bars, and watts links. No one makes anything for a GM A body that I could find, and I don't trust my math enough to fab a custom setup like PJs. Geometry was not my strong suit.
> 
> I was gonna swap the rubber bushings in the rearend for rotojoints, but now I think I'll keep them in. Hopefully that'll be enough. Worst case scenario, I can go down the fabrication path later if I find I'm getting too much lateral movement/wheel rub.



A Panhard bar is very simple but you want it longer than shorter, otherwise it can give opposite results of what you want - keeping the rear centered. Then there is the better "watts link", but more work,parts, welding - but is basically 2 panhard bars that can pivot in the center.

Just a little reading material:









The Differences Between A Panhard Bar And A Watt's Link


What are the differences between a Panhard Bar and a Watt's Link? We go in depth with both and explain the different behaviors between the two setups.




www.streetmusclemag.com


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

O52 said:


> _One thing I've noticed on the frame is some of the welds are HORRIBLE. Can anyone tell me if factory welds were THIS bad? The welding wire is still sticking out at one spot. Part of me suspects someone worked on it at some point._
> 
> Yes they were that bad. Mine has the welding wire stubs all over. A little late now but you need to thoroughly examine the front upper A arm mounting brackets to frame weld, and the side rail channels to the front and rear sections. When I pulled the frame off of my 68 it was cracked down a defective factory weld.
> Story can be found here;
> ...


Glad I didn’t find anything like that on my 65. My factory welds looked great.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Noangelbuddy said:


> Glad I didn’t find anything like that on my 65. My factory welds looked great.


My frame must have been welded on a Friday.


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

GTO Yeah said:


> My frame must have been welded on a Friday.


LOL. You make an excellent point!👌


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Mine was April 29, a Monday.


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

PontiacJim said:


> A Panhard bar is very simple but you want it longer than shorter, otherwise it can give opposite results of what you want - keeping the rear centered. Then there is the better "watts link", but more work,parts, welding - but is basically 2 panhard bars that can pivot in the center.
> 
> Just a little reading material:
> 
> ...


PontiacJim,
Thanks for the educational info on Panhard bar and Watts Link. All new info for me. Interesting material, but I am a skeptic at heart. I wonder if you had two identical cars in all aspects except one had a Panhard bar while the other car did not; would you really notice much difference between the two cars?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Noangelbuddy said:


> PontiacJim,
> Thanks for the educational info on Panhard bar and Watts Link. All new info for me. Interesting material, but I am a skeptic at heart. I wonder if you had two identical cars in all aspects except one had a Panhard bar while the other car did not; would you really notice much difference between the two cars?


OK, let me do my best to explain this - keeping in mind I am no suspension expert and the following is what I believe is a correct understanding of the differences found in the suspensions. So feel free to correct anything I have stated if you have another viewpoint or experience. The adjustable upper/control arms with Rotojoints are a new thing for me and what I am using on my '68 Lemans build, although somewhat modified. So I don't have that first hand knowledge yet as to whether they work well or not - but in theory should be a good improvement over stock. I certainly know how the stock suspension can get out of shape pretty quickly and cause the need for a change of underwear.  And with today's prices and inflation, I only own 1 pair of underwear at this time. 

The Panhard bar just keeps the rear centered. It is simply a solid bar bolting from the frame to the rear axle at some location of it. My '65 Impala had a factory panhard bar. My thoughts are that with the could suspension and the weight of the heavy car, any kind of spirited driving would have that heavy body pushing hard on the control arm bushings and 1.) Better handling, 2.) If space between the tire/wheel wells were tight, they could rub, 3.) premature wear of the bushings or binding of the control arms against the axle/frame brackets, 4.) minimized the stresses applied to the control arm mounting brackets 5.) can't recall how the shocks mounted, but maybe they were close to hitting brackets/tires or ?, and this prevented the rear end moving too far and hitting parts.

The original reason for the suggestion is that the PO is using the adjustable control arms having the rotojoints. These are essentially like a Heim joint where the Heim joint allows side-to-side movement as well as up/down movement. The A-body uses a four link design having two lower control arms that are perpendicular to the rearend and two upper control arms that are at roughly a 45-degree angle which keeps the rearend centered under the car. The issue here in handling is that there is a lot of binding that happens when utilizing the factory rubber bushings. With bushings, they are stiff enough to keep the rear axle centered and tracking true - although you will still get some movement in hard cornering as the factory rubber bushings will have some compression factor, the poly bushings a little less, and the control arms in their design will also allow a little flex - so I am not saying that the rear end won't move at all with the factory design as it will, and more so as bushings/parts wear out.

Adding a sway bar to the lower control arms will stiffen up/improve the side-to-side lateral movement because you are joining/tying the lower control arms to a fixed bar where any movement of either control arm has to force the other side to move and since there is no movement in the sway bar to be had laterally, it holds the lower control arms straight and this also applies to keeping the upper control arms straight. Is all lateral movement gone? My guess would be you still may have some from the compression in the actual bushing if you were road racing the car and had really wide tires to grip the road, but movement if any would be minimum and controlled and adjust tire sizes closely to any contact points.

With the rotojoints, like Heim joints, there is nothing to keep the control arms/rear axle from moving side-to-side. Your shocks can provide some centering of the rear axle if they were angled and had a good amount of extension pressures, but I would not rely on this as the movement of the car's body on the suspension, or the movement from the car's suspension on the body, will always be adjusting as you lean into a corner, make a turn, hit road bumps/pot holes, and any other form of change that would put a lateral pressure on the rear end or body.

So in order to keep the rear axle centered using the rotojoints, you have to add "something" - panhard bar, tri-angle type track locator, watts link, frame-to-rear axle mounted sway bar. This keeps the rear axle centered in place under the car BUT now allows the body/rear axle to "roll" independent of the axle through the use of the rotojoints. With the conventional bushing/control arms, the body rolls (ie corning the car tightly) on the flexing properties of the bushing/control arms which can put the suspension into a controlled bind as the weight of the body shifts going into that tight curve - and when you come out of that tight curve/roll, sometimes the recovery can be violent enough to get the car squirrelly or even lose control as everything snaps/springs into place again.

The sway bar helps to minimize the suspension movement through the control bars and keep the car more stable in those tight maneuvers. Handling improves, but you can still get that bad reaction during recovery as the body springs back to its neutral ride position - ie going down the road level/squarely.

With the rotorjoints, the body can roll independent of the suspension so the body does not become a weight that twists/flexes the control arms/bushings up like a spring and give you that bad reaction when it wants to all snap back to "neutral". With the rotorjoints the body and suspension become somewhat independent of each other so the suspension can do its job without the weight/motion of the body shifting on the control arms and bushings and causing an effect upon the suspension. You won't get that "spring back" you can get from bushings/factory control arms that could lead to a handful of car during recovery coming out of a tight curve/corner or sideways situation. Does it eliminate all ill happenings that can occur during tight cornering, road racing, or getting sideways? No, but it creates more control and less chance of that violent shifting of the body weight on the suspension and its affect on the suspension which can break loose traction at a time when you don't really want it.

Here is a pic of the upper and lower adjustable tubular control arms with the rotojoints so all can see what they look like.

"The Roto-Joint (short for Rotational Joint) is designed to perform a number of functions, most importantly offer 28 degrees of total rotation and unrestricted movement in suspension applications. It’s designed to prevent suspension bind, yet retain the ride quality that softer bushings offer. The Delrin race also absorbs shock and reduces bushing deflection to provide improved traction, and is outfitted with a grease fitting to allow for long life."


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

PJ,

Appreciate the explanation, but now I have to purge the underwear comment from my mind. Hope you enjoyed adding that tidbit.

I don’t have enough suspension experience to contradict anything you stated. I never gave much thought to lateral movement of rear suspension. I did replace all of my rear control arm rubber factory bushings with phenolic. Also MIG welded the rear lower control arms to box them, but not the upper. Still not on the road yet, but changes may be in my future after I break in the drivetrain. The Goat now has approximately 120 hp more than the original 389 and a 6 speed transmission. Sorry now I did not put in a sway bar when I had the body off. Moving on to paint prep and painting. Will revisit sway bar if necessary.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> OK, let me do my best to explain this - keeping in mind I am no suspension expert and the following is what I believe is a correct understanding of the differences found in the suspensions. So feel free to correct anything I have stated if you have another viewpoint or experience. The adjustable upper/control arms with Rotojoints are a new thing for me and what I am using on my '68 Lemans build, although somewhat modified. So I don't have that first hand knowledge yet as to whether they work well or not - but in theory should be a good improvement over stock. I certainly know how the stock suspension can get out of shape pretty quickly and cause the need for a change of underwear.  And with today's prices and inflation, I only own 1 pair of underwear at this time.
> 
> The Panhard bar just keeps the rear centered. It is simply a solid bar bolting from the frame to the rear axle at some location of it. My '65 Impala had a factory panhard bar. My thoughts are that with the could suspension and the weight of the heavy car, any kind of spirited driving would have that heavy body pushing hard on the control arm bushings and 1.) Better handling, 2.) If space between the tire/wheel wells were tight, they could rub, 3.) premature wear of the bushings or binding of the control arms against the axle/frame brackets, 4.) minimized the stresses applied to the control arm mounting brackets 5.) can't recall how the shocks mounted, but maybe they were close to hitting brackets/tires or ?, and this prevented the rear end moving too far and hitting parts.
> 
> ...


I'm sold! Panhard bar will be going in! Thank you for laying out all the why's of it. PJ have you ever thought compiling all your knowledge into a book? I'd buy it for sure.

I'll pick up some universal mounts from Speedway (or make some) and an UMI adjustable panhard bar w/rotojoints. I'm going to have problems with exhaust clearance now aren't I?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> I'm sold! Panhard bar will be going in! Thank you for laying out all the why's of it. PJ have you ever thought compiling all your knowledge into a book? I'd buy it for sure.
> 
> I'll pick up some universal mounts from Speedway (or make some) and an UMI adjustable panhard bar w/rotojoints. I'm going to have problems with exhaust clearance now aren't I?


If you can, I would consider welding/bolting one end on the frame rail then run the rod to a bracket welded or even bolted (fab up such a bracket) to the opposite side lower shock mount. Longer the rod the better better and as parallel to the axle tubes as possible. Another thought, use a 3" U-bolt and leaf spring pad as I did on my rear sway bar and weld a short piece of 2 x 4 steel tube to the pad with enough stick out to clear the rear center section of the 9", drill a hole in it so you can run a bolt through the end of the panhard bar and then find it attachment point on the frame where you will be welding/bolting on the bracket - so no welding needed on the axle tube of the rear end, just the frame if you go the weld route or fab a bracket to bolt to the frame as well.

Just a suggestion. BUT, do this after you find out if that sway bar you have will work or not - you may have to come up with another game plan.

Tail pipes? Aren't there supposed to be simple turn downs in front of the rear axle? Hmmm, maybe I have been doing it wrong? LOL

You may have to take the car to a muffler shop and let them bend the tail pipes up for you and let them deal with any clearance issues.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> If you can, I would consider welding/bolting one end on the frame rail then run the rod to a bracket welded or even bolted (fab up such a bracket) to the opposite side lower shock mount. Longer the rod the better better and as parallel to the axle tubes as possible. Another thought, use a 3" U-bolt and leaf spring pad as I did on my rear sway bar and weld a short piece of 2 x 4 steel tube to the pad with enough stick out to clear the rear center section of the 9", drill a hole in it so you can run a bolt through the end of the panhard bar and then find it attachment point on the frame where you will be welding/bolting on the bracket - so no welding needed on the axle tube of the rear end, just the frame if you go the weld route or fab a bracket to bolt to the frame as well.
> 
> Just a suggestion. BUT, do this after you find out if that sway bar you have will work or not - you may have to come up with another game plan.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions! The car came with turndowns, but I already have a pypes 3" exhaust system w/race pros waiting to be installed. I'll have to figure out how to make it work. I might pick up some Spintech oval exhaust tubing and have it exit before the rear wheels (if I can). Ground clearance will be tricky.

I'll probably save the panhard bar for one of the last steps of the restoration, so I get an accurate sense of how the suspension will sit under the weight of the body.


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

O52 said:


> Mine was April 29, a Monday.
> 
> View attachment 152586


Do not recall seeing numbers stamped into my frame. Where were yours located?


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

O52 said:


> Mine was April 29, a Monday.
> 
> View attachment 152586


Where can I find the frame stamp on my 66. ??


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! The car came with turndowns, but I already have a pypes 3" exhaust system w/race pros waiting to be installed. I'll have to figure out how to make it work. I might pick up some Spintech oval exhaust tubing and have it exit before the rear wheels (if I can). Ground clearance will be tricky.
> 
> I'll probably save the panhard bar for one of the last steps of the restoration, so I get an accurate sense of how the suspension will sit under the weight of the body.



Couple of pics I pulled out of one one my chassis/handling books. It shows the Panhard bracket welded to the lower shock mount - gives you an idea of what I was saying.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

GTO Yeah said:


> My frame must have been welded on a Friday.


Or monday.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Here's a little excel document I've been working on to help me plan out my build. It's certainly a work in progress, but I figured I'd post it here for anyone else starting their own projects.









GTO PLANS.xlsx


1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world




we.tl


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

66COUPE said:


> Where can I find the frame stamp on my 66. ??


Drivers side behind the rear axle. Exhaust pipe clamp bracket maybe obscuring it.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

O52 said:


> Drivers side behind the rear axle. Exhaust pipe clamp bracket maybe obscuring it.
> 
> View attachment 152774
> View attachment 152775





O52 said:


> Drivers side behind the rear axle. Exhaust pipe clamp bracket maybe obscuring it.
> 
> View attachment 152774
> View attachment 152775


So it looks like the only way to see the numbers is with the body off the frame ?? or can you see it with a little mirror or something. ??


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The frame numbers are on the side and can be seen easily. Just behind the drivers rear tire.
The VIN is much harder. You will need a mirror, and only if there is a minimum of corrosion.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

A minor update while I get my other pictures together:

We were able to get the steering wheel pieces powder coated. The chrome finish (without clear) turned out really nice. The piece itself...not so much.

We baked the pieces at 400F for 20 mins to outgas them and then powdered the pieces and baked for 15 mins. I thought I'd done a good job getting the pits filled and sanded, but as you can see it turned out worse than original. Oh well. It was a cool experiment.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Had a pretty productive weekend with the frame. We got most of the suspension stuff in. We hit a snag because I ordered the wrong wheel studs for the rear axles. The shoulders were just a little too big.

And we're having trouble getting the front coils to seat correctly. They always seem to shift in the pocket once we let out the spring tensioner. Still trying to figure that one out. I ordered some rubber spring cups to keep them from slipping.

The rear end didn't come with spring perches, so we grabbed some that we had lying around the garage and bolted them in. Hopefully it'll go smoothly when we get to putting the rear coils in.

I tried getting the rear control arms to the same length as the originals, but those are rust-welded onto the old rear end (plus the lowers were cut). We had to eyeball it the best we could.

I'm glad I went with the 9 inch rear. The diff was EXTREMELY heavy to get into place, but all I had to do was bolt it in once we had it up there. 

Decided to powdercoat the motor mounts to give things a little pop. I like the red against the black. And I like that you don't really see it unless you're looking for it. I just wish UMI didn't add so many stickers on their products. I might have to peel those off the next time I'm with the car.

One thing I will note for anyone buying the UMI kits: Make sure you have all your hardware. Many of the kits require use of original bolts/nuts which wasn't an option for me. Wasted a lot of time running to the hardware store for grade 8 bolts and locking nuts or washers.

We also spent a lot of time trying to think ahead for how we positioned the bolts. Everything is easy to install now, but we wanted to make sure the bolts would be removeable once the body and all that was on.

I also noticed, the POR15 doesn't seem to be curing the same across the frame. It's flat in some spots and glossy on others.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Had a pretty productive weekend with the frame. We got most of the suspension stuff in. We hit a snag because I ordered the wrong wheel studs for the rear axles. The shoulders were just a little too big.
> 
> And we're having trouble getting the front coils to seat correctly. They always seem to shift in the pocket once we let out the spring tensioner. Still trying to figure that one out. I ordered some rubber spring cups to keep them from slipping.
> 
> ...


Looking great! Ya the stickers are overkill my gosh, I always take labeling off unless the company is going to pay me for advertising their products especially car dealer stickers.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

For anyone installing UMI lower A arms, make sure you install the front bolts going in toward the back of the car.

I promise it’ll ruin your day if you don’t.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

And the mounting bolts for the uppers are reversed in your photo. Bolt head is on the other side of the frame. Normally a serrated bolt that is splined into the frame. A regular bolt can be used but to make your alignment guy happy it should be tacked to the frame.













The rear lower control arms are mounted backwards. The sway bar mounting holes go the axle side. 

Both photos from my El Camino


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Another productive weekend.

I got the steer box in, but didn't fully torque to 70 ft-lbs. Even with new spacers welded in, it started to squeeze the frame.


















Installing the springs is a job I hope to never have to do again. For some reason, the driver's side coil wasn't sitting in its pocket the same as the other side.

Had a real close call while fishing the spring compressor out from the bottom (stupid I know). The coil popped while my finger was poking up through the hole in the lower A arm. The hook of the compressor just happened to drop out the bottom in that instant and the coil hit that instead of my digits. Had to sit and drink a beer after that one.

Finally, I said screw it, and tried installing the shocks to see if it would fix my problem. Without the motor to provide weight, I couldn't use a jack to compress the suspension. So I did some jerry rigging with ratchet straps. It worked, but deloading the straps was terrifying. I used the handle of a garden hoe to pop 'em from a distance. Then I realized I had the bottom of the shocks installed wrong. Whatever. I'll fix it when the motor is on the frame.
















Assembling the hubs and brakes was great. Figuring out which torque specs to use where was not so much. Sometimes the manufacturer provides them. Other times it's "use factory recommended specs" which meant hunting it down. I cross threaded a bolt trying to get the Wilwood calipers to work with the Global West steering knuckle. And I rounded off a couple of my caliper mounting nuts. The Wilwood-provided nuts look just like the Pontiac emblem mounting nuts. There's hardly anything to them. Infuriating.

I finally got to the steering linkage and realized I was short a tie rod, so I just installed what I could.

Getting the pitman arm installed made me reaaaaal nervous. I got to a point where I wasn't making progress with the 1/2" socket wrench and was second guessing if I got the right part. After rounding off a few nuts and cross threading a bolt, I was understandably nervous.

I had to use a press to get the arm off. Harbor Freight only gave me one press plate for my press, so I had to jerry rig yet another wonderfully dangerous solution from the stuff in my dad's garage. Jackstands? Check. Different sized pieces of metal? Check. What could go wrong? It's tough to explain how I set it up, but suffice it say, it was not the safest path forward. It sounded like a gunshot when the arm finally let go.

At least the spindles on the arm were correct. I guess these things just really don't like going on? I'll have to try the ugga dugga gun next go-around.









So all in all a good weekend. Lot's accomplished. Lot's to redo.

*Lessons learned this weekend:*

Don't put your fingers where they don't belong.
Always check the arrow on the rotors before installing. Otherwise you might find yourself having to redo both hub assemblies when you inevitably put them on the wrong sides.
The Global West bump steer kit needs a little grinding to work with the Wilwood disc caliper brackets. Otherwise you'll crossthread your bolts trying to force it. It's barely noticeable, but you've have to shave an 1/16" off.
Acetone dissolves latex.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> And the mounting bolts for the uppers are reversed in your photo. Bolt head is on the other side of the frame. Normally a serrated bolt that is splined into the frame. A regular bolt can be used but to make your alignment guy happy it should be tacked to the frame.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip on the rear control arms! I'll add it to the list of things to redo. Better to know ahead of time rather than try to figure out why the sway bars won't fit right.

As for the front A arms, can you explain why it's better for the alignment shop to have to bolts turned around and tack welded to the frame?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

When you add shims for your alignment the technician loosens the nuts to provide sufficient space to insert the shims. 

If the bolts are reversed he now has to work over and around the wheel/tire to loosen them, all the while holding the bolt (thats on the other side of the inner fender) from turning with the wrench in his other hand. 
Which is why GM used splined bolts that will not turn as the tech is loosening the nuts. 

If you use regular bolts you should tack the head to the frame so they won't turn when attempting to loosen or tighten the nut.
Now the tech leans over the fender, loosens the nuts, inserts shims, tighten nuts. It's done.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> When you add shims for your alignment the technician loosens the nuts to provide sufficient space to insert the shims.
> 
> If the bolts are reversed he now has to work over and around the wheel/tire to loosen them, all the while holding the bolt (thats on the other side of the inner fender) from turning with the wrench in his other hand.
> Which is why GM used splined bolts that will not turn as the tech is loosening the nuts.
> ...


Appreciate it! I was originally worried about header clearance having the bolts this way, but I found some pictures where it appears it won't be an issue.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I like how Army's car looks with the tint, so I decided I'd try my hand at it while the windows are out.

I honestly have no idea how the pros do it with the windows in the car. This stuff is finicky as hell.

I ordered an installer kit from Amazon and the 3m ceramic tint off eBay. Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing if I got the legit stuff because it comes in unmarked packaging.

I tried my best to get the windows clean and got to work in the bathroom (bless my fiancee for letting me use it as my workshop). I ran the shower and got some steam going to keep the dust/lint down.

The rear window was the easiest followed by the rear quarters. The front windows kept giving me trouble for some reason. I kept getting wrinkles on the bottom. I tried everything I could to iron them out including heating with a blow dryer but to no avail. I finally cut some relief notches. We'll see if it works. It's definitely not professional and I found some weld spatter I didn't know I had, but if it turns out poorly over time I'll just have a pro redo them. It was a nice little project and a great learning experience.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Appreciate it! I was originally worried about header clearance having the bolts this way, but I found some pictures where it appears it won't be an issue.


header clearance is tight with those LCA bolts


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> I like how Army's car looks with the tint, so I decided I'd try my hand at it while the windows are out.
> 
> I honestly have no idea how the pros do it with the windows in the car. This stuff is finicky as hell.
> 
> ...


Tint has come a long way. Did you try ordering tint specifically for a 67 GTO? If so it usually has all of the contours, etc


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> I like how Army's car looks with the tint, so I decided I'd try my hand at it while the windows are out.
> 
> I honestly have no idea how the pros do it with the windows in the car. This stuff is finicky as hell.
> 
> ...


Nice! now good luck getting them in without scratching the tint...maybe wrap them in paper. I'm having mine done in a light tint next week, they did my wing windows when I had them out for new seals. The company says the old cars are the worst with all the dirt accumulated from over the years, also said I can't roll the windows down for three days and says sun/heat helps cure it faster.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Tint has come a long way. Did you try ordering tint specifically for a 67 GTO? If so it usually has all of the contours, etc


I got just the flat rolls. I had to cut them by hand. You can see some of the edges aren't completely smooth if you look closely.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

_I got the steer box in, but didn't fully torque to 70 ft-lbs. Even with new spacers welded in, it started to squeeze the frame._

Are you saying the frame was beginning to collapse in?

Something else to consider;
Original front sway bar was 7/8" or 15/16". There wasn't much stress on the bushing bracket mounting bolts.
I'm assuming you're installing the 1 1/4" bar. The frame is thin where the sway bar bracket is located. Only two or three threads hold the bracket bolts. Its not uncommon to have these bolts pull out when using a large diameter bar. I had one pull out on my El Camino.
A couple ways to strengthen that area. You can drill out the original holes and install nut-serts or drill out the mounting hole threads and place 1/4" bar stock inside the frame, predrilled and threaded for longer sway bar bracket bolts.
UMI also sells a frame strut that mounts under the sway bar brackets. It ties the frame horns together and further strengthens the front.











Another sway bar mounting tip;
Install the end link bolts upside down with the threads to the bottom. Depending on how low your car is, if installed with the threads up, it may interfere with the upper ball joint retains nut. Cut any excess threads at the bottom.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> _I got the steer box in, but didn't fully torque to 70 ft-lbs. Even with new spacers welded in, it started to squeeze the frame._
> 
> Are you saying the frame was beginning to collapse in?
> 
> ...


In my second picture (after the steering box) you can see that metal piece starting to mushroom/deform. That tube was straight before I started torqueing.

My UMI sway bars came in today. I can't wait to get back to the car to install them. I'm anxious to see if the rear will fit with the 9-inch rear end, but your tips for the front are most appreciated. I don't get to work on the GTO often, so when I hit snags it really take the wind out of my sails. Tips like your keep things moving.

I'll also be installing the same frame strut you've got, so these pics are gonna be helpful.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Looks like I'll be redoing the tints. I got some air bubbles. I think for this next time, I'm gonna remove the chrome trim. I have a feeling I'm getting quite a bit of dirt coming from inside there.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> Looks like I'll be redoing the tints. I got some air bubbles. I think for this next time, I'm gonna remove the chrome trim. I have a feeling I'm getting quite a bit of dirt coming from inside there.
> 
> View attachment 153731


Try putting it out in the sun for a while to bake, I've seen that from the place I use and sometimes they evaporate but cleaning is key.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Minor updates. Things are a little more slow going these days. Work has been crazy busy.

1.) Redid the window tints. They came out much better the second time around. Pulling off the chrome trim and old weather stripping helped A LOT in preventing crud from sliding under the tint while I worked. Masking off the cruddy parts that I didn't remove also worked (but not as well). I still got a piece of rusty metal under one spot that I had to cut out.


















2.) We got the sway bars in. The rear one fit! The clearance has me a little nervous but we'll see. My understanding is the sway bar doesn't move up and down at all. We also got some steel plates and tapped them for 7/16 bolts and tacked that into the frame horns to give the mounts some more strength. I'm glad we did. After installing the frame brace (not shown), I don't think the threaded holes would have sufficed.


























3.) I also finished restoring the grille inserts. They're not perfect, but they're a far cry from where they started. I'm happy with it.

















4.) I got the brake lines and fuel likes routed for fit. I put the brake lines in the same spot as the fuel lines to avoid the heat from the headers I'll eventually put in. I'm still a little unsure of this because I'm concerned about the two rubbing on each other. Nothing is secured yet, but I'd love to hear what you guys think about this route.


























5.) No pics for these, but I've got all the welds ground down on the bottom of the car. Now I'm working on polishing the chrome trim and restoring the instrument panel.

Onward!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Another note:
The car came with Rally II wheels from a Trans Am. They've got a "17 HW" marking on them and they fit over my Wilwood disc brakes on the front (in case anyone has the same wheels and was wondering if they'd work with disc brakes). I've got the 140-15909-DR kit. I don't have the rears set up yet, but I can't imagine it'd be any different fitment-wise.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

that is gonna be a very nice car to be proud of.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Despite everyone thinking the opposite, it's it's my understanding that the factory did NOT route the lines through the holes in the frames. 

The holes seem conveniently located, but I can think of numerous reasons to avoid using them.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Despite everyone thinking the opposite, it's it's my understanding that the factory did NOT route the lines through the holes in the frames.
> 
> The holes seem conveniently located, but I can think of numerous reasons to avoid using them.


I could only find info on the 64-66 fuel system and it appears they route through the frame (pic from the Zazarine book).










But I'm all ears on changing things up to make the car as safe as possible--especially now that I've got the body off the frame. Can you expand on why you'd avoid it? I'm primarily worried about avoiding heat from the headers.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I cant say for sure. I only know that when I went to route my lines through there, several of the experts from here told me not to... but?

I would avoid passing through holes because of rubbing, and also for inspection purposes... if I were to be leaking fuel, I'd want to see it and not have it pool in the frame. But Id let someone else who had one new, confirm the route


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I cant say for sure. I only know that when I went to route my lines through there, several of the experts from here told me not to... but?
> 
> I would avoid passing through holes because of rubbing, and also for inspection purposes... if I were to be leaking fuel, I'd want to see it and not have it pool in the frame. But Id let someone else who had one new, confirm the route


Good point. How'd you end up routing yours? You've got headers on yours right?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Mine has headers, and like the transmission cooler lines, the fuel lines just pass around that front, center section of the engine cradle. I can see where someone ran lines through the frame at one point, but I abandoned those.

Like I said... I dont want some GTO pure bred to blast me for giving you any potentilly non-oem advice, but yeah, liquid fuel doesnt ignite, the vapor does, and vapor can't ignite unless it collects and has ignition. Running through the frame presents both an area for collection and for ignition (if metal to metal contact is made.

At the end of the day, I would pass through the frame if I were certain that my stuff was in excellent order and secured. Based on how I see your build progressing, I don't see you having issues.

On the other hand, every single difficult job on a car, is for one single reason, inaccessibility. 

I would hear other opinions on this before deciding.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Not blasting you Army, you have good points;

Fuel line tubing runs through the hole, but not the brake lines. The tubing also had a cloth wrap around it so if it's properly clamped it's safe and not exposed to road debris
And don't use rubber fuel line except when connecting to the pump or tank.

Before and after on my 68


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

O52 said:


> Not blasting you Army, you have good points;
> 
> Fuel line tubing runs through the hole, but not the brake lines. The tubing also had a cloth wrap around it so if it's properly clamped it's safe and not exposed to road debris
> And don't use rubber fuel line except when connecting to the pump or tank.
> ...


The fuel line I used isn't rubber hose proper. 

It's the Earl's Vapor Guard which has the aramid (kevlar) braiding inside. It's NHRA legal, which gives me sooome comfort. I might still change my mind later and go with metal lines.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

O52 said:


> Not blasting you Army, you have good points;
> 
> Fuel line tubing runs through the hole, but not the brake lines. The tubing also had a cloth wrap around it so if it's properly clamped it's safe and not exposed to road debris
> And don't use rubber fuel line except when connecting to the pump or tank.
> ...


Looks great, Ed.

Yeah... I give advice all day, every day, but I only ever swear to it when Im sure I know what Im talking about. I make it a point to not confuse facts with opinions.

I know I was told not to run the trans lines through there.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Being the bean field driver that I am. I hate finding collection points for junk to collect. I have cleaned out the frame on several of my vehicles. Road dust turns to mud under your car and have had many fuel and brake line failures from road dust patte` sitting on the lines for years.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Mini update time. I'm working on restoring my gauge cluster. I got it repainted with SEM Color Coat Landau Black and it turned out pretty well.

I tried to redo the chrome with the Molotow Chrome pen which turned out pretty great. I screwed up in a couple places, so I'll have to sand down and recoat. It goes on streaky, but dries pretty nicely for a $20 pen. I ripped up some of my black paint using tape that was too sticky. Gonna have to go back with a fine tip brush to hit spots I missed and touch up where the paint leaked through the tape as well.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

Looks great so far. Are your original gauges in good shape? I am replacing my stock ones with an aftermarket set of rally gauges.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Looks great so far. Are your original gauges in good shape? I am replacing my stock ones with an aftermarket set of rally gauges.


They're a little beat up, but definitely not beyond saving. I've got a set of the Dakota RTX gauges on backorder that I plan on using, but I'm still gonna restore the original gauges for the fun of it--just to keep the original parts with the car if the next owner wishes to revert 100 years from now.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Look into Speedhut, you can design them anyway you want so they look closer to factory, that's what I went with and have shift lights too...and IMO look better than Dakota.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Look into Speedhut, you can design them anyway you want so they look closer to factory, that's what I went with and have shift lights too...and IMO look better than Dakota.
> View attachment 154565
> View attachment 154566


Oh wow, those look reaaall nice! I bet they look amazing at night!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Thanks, the pointers don't show up very good in this picture, and they come with a dimmer.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Got my bumpers back last week. Couldn't be happier with the results.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Who did your bumpers? I assume you sent them out for re-chrome?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Sick467 said:


> Who did your bumpers? I assume you sent them out for re-chrome?


I did. I went with Sandy's Bumper Mart in Syracuse. It was local, so I was able to drop them off in person.

It was around $1450 all in (including tax). I dropped them off around Christmas time and they were ready around mid June, so about 6 months turnaround time. The bumpers had a few holes and dents that they repaired as well. They also said they straightened them out, but I haven't done any measuring to confirm. I'm just praying they go on straight when the time comes!


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Well, they look really nice! My back bumper is tweaked and did not fit right before taking it off. I would be so afraid of spending the money on it's minor repairs (the bumper jack holes are ripped open a bit) and having someone straighten it out AND then have it not fit right going back on. Best of luck upon assembly and thanks for the referral! MY front bumper is in really good shape and just needs a minor dent fixed and re-chromed. Wish I knew of someone local, your lucky.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

anybody know any chrome places in the south east?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

No. Can't you ship them?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

ponchonlefty said:


> anybody know any chrome places in the south east?


I sent my headlight bezels and vent window posts to Electroplating of El Paso cuz they had better prices on the smaller parts. I'll let you know how they turn out when I get em back.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

My backordered Dakota RTXs came in! Can't wait until I can see 'em with the lights on. I also finished my dash. It's far from perfect, but it looks good in pictures!

I redid the chrome with the Alclad airbrush chrome paint. You're supposed to lay down a gloss black base coat, but I messed up and used the flat black primer. It turned out more silver than chrome, but it is what it is. I'm sure it would've looked amazing if I did it right. I also went with Fathom blue for inside the gauge pods and on the top strip below the chrome.

I've gotta touch up some of the black on the left. After the masking tape peeled the paint off twice, I'm done with it. I've tried everything I can think of--scuffing, plastic adhesion promoter, light coats, only letting the tape stay on for less than an hour. Maybe I'll touch it up with a brush later.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

i was taught by an old bodyman he showed me how to deaden the tape. thats what he called it. this was before the blue tape or easy peel type stuff. you would run your hand on the sticky side and dull the adhesion. you could do the same with the blue tape maybe not pull as bad. looks like the gauges turned out great from the pics. just thought i would pass on his knowledge.might be useful on the next project.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

More updates! I've got the interior roof sanded, etched, primed, and Xmatted. 

I tried my hand at Muggy Welding the pitting in the chrome shifter trim, but it didn't work out. I'm not very good with brazing to begin with, but it was VERY HARD to work with. None of the material actually wanted to go into the pitting, so I tried building enough up to sand down smooth but it kept coming out. I'm gonna try to slather some JB weld in there next and sand it smooth then refinish with either powder coat or Alsa chrome paint.

I also busted my original heather control lens, so I'm trying to create a new one out of lexan and press on vinyl lettering. I'm still working on clearing and polishing it without ruining the lettering.

The bare metal on the bottom of the car is etched. Next I've gotta prime it, scuff it all up, then start getting seam sealer applied and then bed liner over that.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> More updates! I've got the interior roof sanded, etched, primed, and Xmatted.
> 
> I tried my hand at Muggy Welding the pitting in the chrome shifter trim, but it didn't work out. I'm not very good with brazing to begin with, but it was VERY HARD to work with. None of the material actually wanted to go into the pitting, so I tried building enough up to sand down smooth but it kept coming out. I'm gonna try to slather some JB weld in there next and sand it smooth then refinish with either powder coat or Alsa chrome paint.
> 
> ...


All I can say is “WOW “. you’re the one of the most dedicated restorers I’ve ever seen or heard of !! Keep working on it and be proud. No one will believe it when your done when you show them the starting point. 👍


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

66COUPE said:


> All I can say is “WOW “. you’re the one of the most dedicated restorers I’ve ever seen or heard of !! Keep working on it and be proud. No one will believe it when your done when you show them the starting point. 👍


Thank you for the kind words! It'll be worth it when I'm rolling down the highway with the windows open.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

You bet 👍 that shifter trim looks like it was brought back from the moon 🤣 is a new one out of the budget? might be worth not going through the time and hassle unless you're just sharpening your welding skills idk 😉


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> You bet 👍 that shifter trim looks like it was brought back from the moon 🤣 is a new one out of the budget? might be worth not going through the time and hassle unless you're just sharpening your welding skills idk 😉


I reached out to the Smithsonian to see if they wanted it, but they said we didn't land on the moon until 1969.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thank you for the kind words! It'll be worth it when I'm rolling down the highway with the windows open.


You live in New Jersey. Jersey Girls dont let you drive with the windows down.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> You live in New Jersey. Jersey Girls dont let you drive with the windows down.
> View attachment 155341


Funny you should say that. The missus just got a new car and that is, in fact, the #1 rule.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Speaking of that, wifey in the late '80s 😃


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Before and after shot of the steering wheel. There are some runs in the paint and some orange peeling throughout, but for my first time, I'm happy with it.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I got some more parts back from the rechromers--this time from Electroplating of El Paso. I'm happy with how they turned out. 

It was about 4 months from shipping them out to getting them back on my doorstep. They charged less than Sandy's would have but it looks a little less finished on the backside.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

It's been awhile since my last post. I got married and had a honeymoon.

Hopefully I'll be able to start working on the car a bit more now that the weather is cooler.

We got some stuff done last weekend.
-seat brackets welded in
-seam sealer applied
-bed liner applied to the bottom

I used Durabak 18 based on what I saw on the Project Farm youtube channel. It doesn't spread very easy. If you plan on going this route, it'll definitely help to have the car upside so you can pour it on and push it around with their foam roller applicator. And you'll need a respirator.

It does a pretty great job hiding the seams. And hopefully it does a great job at protecting the bottom. I want this to be a million mile GTO someday!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> It's been awhile since my last post. I got married and had a honeymoon.
> 
> Hopefully I'll be able to start working on the car a bit more now that the weather is cooler.
> 
> ...


Congratulations !


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Congratulations !


Thanks!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I just got my dash back from Al Knoch Interiors. It was around $350, but they did a much better job repairing it than I could have.
























Here's what it looked like before:


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Looks good! Was it a spot repair or a complete recover?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Duff said:


> Looks good! Was it a spot repair or a complete recover?


Thanks! It was a complete recover. 

The visible cracks were limited to a few spots, but the vinyl was super brittle and it was only a matter of time before the rest of the dash would start to come apart.


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Thanks! It was a complete recover.
> 
> The visible cracks were limited to a few spots, but the vinyl was super brittle and it was only a matter of time before the rest of the dash would start to come apart.


I just posted about getting my 66 pad redone or replaced and I didn't know Al Knoch even had this service. I'll check them out, Thanks for posting!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Duff said:


> I just posted about getting my 66 pad redone or replaced and I didn't know Al Knoch even had this service. I'll check them out, Thanks for posting!


I think it was about 2 months from when I sent it out to get the finished dash back.

I also highly recommend Pirateship.com if you're paying to ship it out. I don't know how they do it, but they get me much lower rates via FEDEX, UPS, and USPS.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Got the fuel pump and sender put in and the tank installed. We had to drill out a bigger hole for the Holley EFI fuel pump, which left a bunch of metal shavings inside the tank. We tried our best to fish out the metal with a magnet, but we'll see how well we did when I fire her up.

Getting started pulling the seats apart. The bottom frames seem good enough to restore. The springs will be swapped. But the back looks a little rotted. I'm not sure what to do with those as I can't find seat back frames anywhere.

Also had to patch the driver quarter with metal from the old panel to get rid of the oil canning. The repro panels are a much thinner metal.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking good, did you try a shop vac or washing out the tank? And those seats ARE nasty, looks like a mouse motel.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Looking good, did you try a shop vac or washing out the tank? And those seats ARE nasty, looks like a mouse motel.


Shop vac....would have been a good idea. I can't believe we didn't think of that. 

I'll have to remember to do that when we take the tank off again.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> Also had to patch the driver quarter with metal from the old panel to get rid of the oil canning. The repro panels are a much thinner metal.


Did this solve the oil canning issue?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> Did this solve the oil canning issue?


It seems to have solved it for now. It's amazing how much thicker the old sheet metal is. Once we get the body back on the frame, we'll know for sure if it worked.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> It seems to have solved it for now. It's amazing how much thicker the old sheet metal is. Once we get the body back on the frame, we'll know for sure if it worked.


I am dealing with a similar oil canning issue, so I am anxious to hear how it turns out for you once back on the frame.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

This is exactly why metal shrinking tools exist. It's a method that's as old as car bodies themselves... Not to hard to do... Good body men still know how to do it. The tools are cheap, and with time, anyone can do anything.









Saving steel: shrinking disc can save valuable old metal


Story and photos by ‘Rotten’ Rodney Bauman For hobbyist restorers and rodders alike, key ingredients such as time, funds, place to work, etc., must all come




www.oldcarsweekly.com


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> This is exactly why metal shrinking tools exist. It's a method that's as old as car bodies themselves... Not to hard to do... Good body men still know how to do it. The tools are cheap, and with time, anyone can do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We tried to shrink it with a steel slapper and dolly but the wheelhouse on the other side made it super difficult to reach the backside. This tool would have come in handy!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> We tried to shrink it with a steel slapper and dolly but the wheelhouse on the other side made it super difficult to reach the backside. This tool would have come in handy!


When it comes to body work, it's best to look at the panel as a job in itself, as opposed to part of the rest of the job.

There are so many tools, techniques, and creative ways to approach the task. Seems to me that you and your dad don't really need any advice... just continue along your path. You'll get it with ease.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

My dad showed me how to shrink the oil can out of a panel on my '67 back in the early 80's by heating the area with a torch then a sharp rap with a body hammer then quickly cooling the area with a cold wet towel to shrink it. Don't know if that would work for you?


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

I dont want to hijack the thread, but I originally tried to heat the spot with a torch and quickly cool with a wet rag. That never really worked for me and I might have made it worse. I also found this guy on youtube Wray Schelin who is absurdly good at metal work. I bought one of his shrinking disks, and it worked well at fixing some dents, and it would tighten up the oil canning, but in the process it would pull the crown out of the quarter panel. So my quarter was tight, but misshapen. The only way for me to get the correct-ish crown back in the quarter was with a slapper and dolly. And the spot that is oil canning is behind some bracing and virtually impossible to get. I had to use a contraption of dollys duct taped to long wooden handles to get them behind the bracing. It was not fun nor particularly effective. I actually think this part of the quarter panel was damaged by the previous owner when they sandblasted, and I think I was chasing my tail. I thought cutting a donor piece out of a junk quarter might work to eliminate oil-canning, but I had not seen it done until this post.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Drewm said:


> I dont want to hijack the thread, but I originally tried to heat the spot with a torch and quickly cool with a wet rag. That never really worked for me and I might have made it worse. I also found this guy on youtube Wray Schelin who is absurdly good at metal work. I bought one of his shrinking disks, and it worked well at fixing some dents, and it would tighten up the oil canning, but in the process it would pull the crown out of the quarter panel. So my quarter was tight, but misshapen. The only way for me to get the correct-ish crown back in the quarter was with a slapper and dolly. And the spot that is oil canning is behind some bracing and virtually impossible to get. I had to use a contraption of dollys duct taped to long wooden handles to get them behind the bracing. It was not fun nor particularly effective. I actually think this part of the quarter panel was damaged by the previous owner when they sandblasted, and I think I was chasing my tail. I thought cutting a donor piece out of a junk quarter might work to eliminate oil-canning, but I had not seen it done until this post.


Sounds like we were working through the exact same issue. We tried heat as well, but no luck. By the time we were done trying to shrink the oil canning out, the quarter was pretty beat up. It's such a tough spot to work on with the wheelhouse in.

Another idea we had was to lap weld a panel on the inside of the quarter to give it some more strength but we ultimately decided against it.

One thing we noticed was the wheelhouse was pulling pretty hard on the quarter. We cut it when we were working on the quarter and by the time we finished, we had to weld a 1/4" metal patch to put it back in place.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> Another idea we had was to lap weld a panel on the inside of the quarter to give it some more strength but we ultimately decided against it.


I actually thought the exact same thing. I also am thinking about epoxying (using 3M panel bonding adhesive) a panel on the inside instead of welding and introducing more heat to the panel. In my case, I dont think it would need to be a huge piece of metal on the inside.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

After reading some more about the frame here and on the chevelle forum, we decided to strengthen the lower control arm mounts. And I'm glad we did. The metal behind it was all rotted out.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Drewm said:


> I am dealing with a similar oil canning issue, so I am anxious to hear how it turns out for you once back on the frame.


do you have a stud gun? they make a shrink tip to fix things like that. or you can use an old cloths iron and a damp rag, or a small torch and heat small quarter size circle. the iron is slow but works good.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Got a lot of work done on the frame this weekend.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Part 2


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I am no structural engineer, but I think that will work well. Upper and lower control arm mounts plated and beefed up, plus the upper/lower control arm brace should do the trick. Shock mount plate should add the needed strength as well as the extra welds.

Here is what I did to get my upper/lower adjustable control arms to match the factory arms with regards to length - bolt hole to bolt hole. I can adjust them if needed once on the car to correct any issues with driveshaft/pinion angles.

A simple jig/fixture I made using a light steel crossmember used under a big rig trailer I got from work and cut it down. Insert your old control arm bolts through the bushing holes (providing your bushings are reasonably usable) and lay it on the edge of the steel (whatever you wind up using) and weld the bolt head edge to the steel. This will secure the bolts and you will now have a jig to use to do an initial set-up of your adjustable control arms. Lift the factory control arm up and off, and now simply adjust the new adjustable control arm to slip over the bolts. When screwing in the ends on the control arm, keep them evenly screwed in - don't have 1" of thread showing on one side and 2" of thread on the other. Then snug up the nut. I did not crank down on the adjusting nut as I may have to adjust the arm once on the car. If you do have to make any adjustments, put some paint or a mark on the all tubes and nuts and count your turns in or out so you can match th other side. Write it down in case you have to adjust/fine tune the turns once the car is running and driving.

Made a jig for the upper and lower control arms so the adjustable control arms are evenly adjusted in their length and matched the factory spacing.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> I am no structural engineer, but I think that will work well. Upper and lower control arm mounts plated and beefed up, plus the upper/lower control arm brace should do the trick. Shock mount plate should add the needed strength as well as the extra welds.
> 
> Here is what I did to get my upper/lower adjustable control arms to match the factory arms with regards to length - bolt hole to bolt hole. I can adjust them if needed once on the car to correct any issues with driveshaft/pinion angles.
> 
> ...


We had to cut the original control arms out so we had to eyeball the adjustments. 👀

I'm hoping the extra reinforcements provide a bit of extra insurance while still keeping some semblance of a spirit of originality.

Tomorrow we're gonna tackle the frame where the side rails attach to the front kick ups.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks for the pictures. That's a ton of work, but I think my frame will need similar treatment when the time comes. This will come in handy.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Started to get the fronts of the frame reinforced. I tried my hand at welding it but my goober welds are no comparison to my dad's. I'm getting really handy with the angle grinder though!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

The side plates are in. The driver's side plate folded up crooked, which is bugging my OCD but I can live with it. 

I have to be honest, I have no idea how people get those super clean, uniform looking welds. It's boggling.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Last update for a bit. I feel like I'm finding my groove with this welding thing (so long as I'm able to hit it with a grinder after). I rewelded the seams along the top of the frame on the kickups and on the rear of the engine cradle where it meets the frame.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Great work. They say the more you weld the better you get. I've found it's true but I'm still a long way off. Keep at it!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

CDub67 said:


> Great work. They say the more you weld the better you get. I've found it's true but I'm still a long way off. Keep at it!


Ive been teaching welding since 98, and the first thing I tell everyone, is that "Anyone" can weld... especially mig.

95% of welding is layout, cutting, cleaning, grinding, and painting. "Being a welder" doesnt really come into play until the environment dictates it. If all you wish to do is mig steel in a controlled environment, then you'll hit your mark very quickly, with a little patience and some experience!

You don't need to be a welder to weld, or a painter to paint. It's just easier when you are.

When you need to weld out of position, upside down, with no visibility, outside in the wind, under water, two different materials together, or for 8 hours straight when it's 95 degrees out, then knowing everything about welding, matters a lot.

Iron cracks, stainless moves ALL OVER the place, aluminum falls apart in your hands, magnesium is flammable...

Practicing anything will make you great at it!


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Ive been teaching welding since 98, and the first thing I tell everyone, is that "Anyone" can weld... especially mig.
> 
> 95% of welding is layout, cutting, cleaning, grinding, and painting. "Being a welder" doesnt really come into play until the environment dictates it. If all you wish to do is mig steel in a controlled environment, then you'll hit your mark very quickly, with a little patience and some experience!
> 
> ...


It's really satisfying when a weld comes out looking nice. I feel good about 1 out of every 5 welds, but I'm hoping to improve those numbers over time.

Right now I struggle with balancing getting good penetration vs burn through and moving the puddle slow enough without getting really high welds. It kind of reminds me of golf in the sense that there are so many factors/little things to remember to do right at the time to get the perfect outcome.

I think welding upside down is my least favorite thing. I've already had a nice bit of slag burn through my shirt and give me a little souvenir. (I quickly put my welding jacket on after that).


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

CDub67 said:


> Great work. They say the more you weld the better you get. I've found it's true but I'm still a long way off. Keep at it!


Thanks! No better way to learn than by doing! It was a little daunting at first. The last of those frame welds were my first try at it without my dad looking over my shoulder to give pointers.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Being that your dad seems to be an accomplished welder, Im sure I have no advice to give that he already hasnt... That being said, set the heat for the thickness you want, set the speed so that the weld SOUNDS like an egg frying.

As for overhead burns... I have dozens of them, from head to toe.

One time when I was a kid, I was welding my first ever exhaust on a Camaro. I was laying on my back with my feet holding up the exhaust... a giant blob of molten steel landed on my knee, melted through my Levi's, rolled down the back of my leg, and settled in nicely right between my ass cheeks. 

The good news is, now when they land in my boots, I just giggle and say "Ha, that's nothing".


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> Last update for a bit. I feel like I'm finding my groove with this welding thing (so long as I'm able to hit it with a grinder after). I rewelded the seams along the top of the frame on the kickups and on the rear of the engine cradle where it meets the frame.
> View attachment 158975
> 
> 
> ...



The first thing is that the metal has to be clean, no rust, paint, oil, etc.. Stick welding doesn't care.

The small home welders like the Lincoln 125 is really only good for light metal or sheet metal. Start using thicker steel and the welds will not penetrate - so I assume you are using a larger 220V welder.

With the Mig, it is all about the heat setting and wire speed. Too high on the heat and too slow on the wire and the wire burns off at the tip. Conversely, too low of a heat setting and too fast on the wire feed and the wire slowing pushed the gun away from the part or you have too much "stick-out."

I like to use a scrap piece of steel the same thickness as I am welding to set the heat/wire speed. As *Army* pointed out, listen for the sound and the sound of the welding will let you know you have it set correct - sounds like sizzling bacon.

To get a nice bead, with the heat/speed set correctly, you do small loops with the wire moving forward, looping back into the weld, and move forward. If the welds seem high, I call them "caterpillars", heat is too low or wire speed to high. Look at the edges of the weld, this will tell you if the weld is burned into the metal or just laying on top of it - called a "cold weld." In my opinion, better to have a little too hot than too cold on the heat. If you burn through, you can come back and fill the hole in.

You don't have to make a continuous "pull the trigger" weld. You can pull the trigger on/off which is a means to control the heat going into the part. Just another technique.

I like to keep my ground close to the work, so move it around as you weld IF needed. The ground can make a difference in the weld if it is a ground, but not well grounded verses a nice solid ground.

Grinding the weld down somewhat defeats the purpose of the weld. You don' want to grind it smooth as the added metal not only joins the 2 pieces, but adds more metal and strength to the pieces welded. Smooth looks nice and professional, but not always the maximum in strength.

When joining thicker metal, it is best to bevel the edge of the 2 pieces or even a single piece and put a "root pass" weld on the 2 pieces and then come back with another weld spanning a wider swath that welds over the 2 pieces and the weld, or use a series of welds alongside the root pass on each side burning the metal and root pass together. If you simply weld on a thick piece of metal, you may not get good/deep penetration of the weld and it is possible that the parts as they flex will eventually stress crack the weld due to the 2 pieces under the weld can still flex because they are not welded solid.

In Mig welding a 14 Gauge repair patch on an old truck which uses 14 Ga metal, I beveled the mating edges thinner more like 18 Ga so I could use my 115V Mig welder to join them together. Simply butt welding them did not work as I could not run the heat high enough to get a good weld penetration and stick welding was too hot and burned through.

Most of it is learning and doing and then watching the welds to see the results as you adjust the heat/wire speed. I learned on my '68 frame using the stick welder that I could not weld. Got "bubble gum" welds that were not pretty no mater what i tried in settings or technique. Stick welding rods can be specific as to the type of ground used - postive or negative. I had a stick that said for negative ground and could be used for positive ground welding. So I decided to swap my welding leads to positive ground. Sure enough, I was a good welder again and my welds looked like welds - only time I ever had to do this, but it worked. So keep that in mind as even a Mig welder can use negative/positive ground by swapping the leads.

Practice, practice, practice.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> The first thing is that the metal has to be clean, no rust, paint, oil, etc.. Stick welding doesn't care.
> 
> The small home welders like the Lincoln 125 is really only good for light metal or sheet metal. Start using thicker steel and the welds will not penetrate - so I assume you are using a larger 220V welder.
> 
> ...


Yea it all seems like a balancing act of multiple things at once that become second nature the more you practice it.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Just got an update on the car. We're trying to strip the roof without warping anything and I swear the old paint is incredibly tough.

This is after 30 minutes of working with a flapper disc and a drum surface refinishing tool. I highly recommend the one from Harbor Freight. I picked it up for $120 on sale.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

armyadarkness said:


> set the speed so that the weld SOUNDS like an egg frying.





PontiacJim said:


> you have it set correct - sounds like sizzling bacon.


Guess that's why it takes so many of us so long to get the hang of welding, we are not typically used to cooking breakfast. It's usually a donut and coffee.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

I'm finding it's a lot like my golf game. One good shot and I think I've got the hang of it. Then reality sets in on the next hole. That's why I gave up golf! 

But I'm enjoying the car hobby too much to quit. (Not to mention I'm getting better at welding faster than I was at golf, it's much cheaper, and the results are far more rewarding!)


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTO Yeah said:


> Just got an update on the car. We're trying to strip the roof without warping anything and I swear the old paint is incredibly tough.
> 
> This is after 30 minutes of working with a flapper disc and a drum surface refinishing tool. I highly recommend the one from Harbor Freight. I picked it up for $120 on sale.
> 
> View attachment 159025


I use a brush-on paint stripper on some parts of the truck I am doing. I use the Jasco brand paint remover which seems to work best out of some other brands I have tried. I also use a razor blade scraper to remove paint if the paint will lift up easily, and a 6" round Dual-Action air sander. I found that the Craftsman 6" discs from Lowe's in a 36 grit cuts paint really well, and lasts the best. The Home Depot Diablo brand is not as good and cheaper in price, but I use more as the cutting grit seems to die out quicker - so no real savings in my opinion.

Flapper discs seem to clog up/wear out fairly fast in my experience and use of them.


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## chrisn (2 mo ago)

looking good im glad im not alone with the rust, had mine soda blasted , the quarters are a pain they dont make 67s as far as i know you have to adapt 66s and use patch panels to fix the 66s to the 67 the trunk floor drops are the challange to me because mine didnt have anything left so i cannot compare side to side to rebuild but ill get it


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

I got 1/4s, trunk floor, and wheelhouses for my '67 from Ames and they're still selling them. 


Ames Part Detail


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## chrisn (2 mo ago)

CDub67 said:


> I got 1/4s, trunk floor, and wheelhouses for my '67 from Ames and they're still selling them.
> 
> 
> Ames Part Detail


when we bought our sheetmetal the only thing we couldnt get was 67 quarters but this was 5 years ago.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

We were able to get quite a bit done over thanksgiving:

I picked up the Spohn no-bind lower shock mounts. They required a bit of bending to work with my Hotchkiss shocks that had the rubber bushings, but I think it worked out.
I got the brake line clamps installed and started with the fuel line. I'm still trying to decide if I should try to run the fuel line through the frame up by the front frame kickups.
We also got most of the paint stripped from the body and some epoxy sealer primer on so it's not sitting in bare metal over the winter. Whatever the previous owner put on the roof was super strong. It took two applications of aircraft stripper to get the paint and primer off. I also got to try my hand at shooting primer on the car. They make it look a lot easier on TV.
The rear window channel is being worked on and we got the rear deck replaced.
I think the next step will be to get some of the body work done over the winter now that the body is back on the frame--depending on how expensive kerosene gets.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)




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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Wow. Looks great. You're doing an awesome job. Was the Aircraft Stripper you used the old formula or the new stuff? I know they stopped making the old formula, which worked like a charm, and the new one didn't really do the job. But someone recently told me the newest formula works well.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

CDub67 said:


> Wow. Looks great. You're doing an awesome job. Was the Aircraft Stripper you used the old formula or the new stuff? I know they stopped making the old formula, which worked like a charm, and the new one didn't really do the job. But someone recently told me the newest formula works well.


Thanks! I think it was the new stuff. It worked super great on the firewall and other parts of the car. It was just something about the roof that gave us problems.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> View attachment 159638
> 
> View attachment 159639
> 
> ...


Looking great !, ya those rear window pockets are death for those cars.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Looking great !, ya those rear window pockets are death for those cars.


I think someone on this forum added a hole and ran a drain line down through the fender. Sounds like it might not be a bad idea.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I've been giving reupholstering a shot. After watching hours of video and reading all the threads I could find, I tore my vinyl last night.

I'm gonna give Legendary a call to see if it's something they can repair and I'll give it one more go--this time with a steamer to maybe relax the vinyl.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I can easily help you fix it if they dont/ wont.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I can easily help you fix it if they dont/ wont.


I really appreciate it. I'll give you a shout if they can't to help me.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I tried again with the other vinyl piece and a steamer. Cranked the heat in the apt so it's hot as a sauna in here aaaaaand...another rip. So both my seatback pieces are torn. I guess the silver lining is I was able to get the piece on before the tear happened this time.

Still waiting to hear back from Legendary on whether their techs can repair the piece(s)--now plural. Again, thanks to Army for offering to help me out. It'll be a good excuse to take a roadtrip down the shore if it turns out that way.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

GTO Yeah said:


> I tried again with the other vinyl piece and a steamer. Cranked the heat in the apt so it's hot as a sauna in here aaaaaand...another rip. So both my seatback pieces are torn. I guess the silver lining is I was able to get the piece on before the tear happened this time.
> 
> Still waiting to hear back from Legendary on whether their techs can repair the piece(s)--now plural. Again, thanks to Army for offering to help me out. It'll be a good excuse to take a roadtrip down the shore if it turns out that way.
> 
> View attachment 159890


Damn! I hope they don't blame you because I'm sure those aren't cheap 🤬


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Again, thanks to Army for offering to help me out. It'll be a good excuse to take a roadtrip down the shore if it turns out that way.


As Ive mentioned, Im a marine upholsterer, with 50 sewers and 200 rolls of vinyl. Wouldnt be too hard to repair that.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> As Ive mentioned, Im a marine upholsterer, with 50 sewers and 200 rolls of vinyl. Wouldnt be too hard to repair that.


Now he's just showing off


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Damn! I hope they don't blame you because I'm sure those aren't cheap 🤬


Oh it was definitely my fault. I got excited and rushed the last corner. It was one of those "just ooooone more little tug and it's there" situations.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

GTO Yeah said:


> Oh it was definitely my fault. I got excited and rushed the last corner. It was one of those "just ooooone more little tug and it's there" situations.


I feel your pain. I usually do that with bolts.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Now he's just showing off


I can assure you, I'd rather get kicked in the balls, than to have another task on my plate right now... nevertheless, it's Christmas, the guy is in Jersey, and it looks like a simple fix.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

FYI, the way to fix that is to use a seam ripper and take it apart, then trace the ruined part onto new vinyl, and sew it back together. 

I have the equipment and people to repair it, but while I probably/ might have a close match for that vinyl, I doubt I have anything exact. It appears to be an iridescent silver/ white? Which would mean we would have to find the material or substitute it.

But for that matter, any upholsterer, anywhere, could easily do the same, and likely install the covers for you as well.


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> I can assure you, I'd rather get kicked in the balls,


Some people pay good money for that...


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Cushions and covers... all day... every day... yay.

This is what our machines do. They even make the headliners for the new vettes.


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

I got the bottom piece done. It was a lot easier than the backside. I think once I forced myself to slow down a bit and not be afraid to redo everything if it didn't feel right, I got a more successful outcome. It's not perfect by any means, but a damn sight better than my attempt at the backs.


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## goat671 (Apr 13, 2019)

The seat frame and springs look new where did you get these or did you restore the originals?


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## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

goat671 said:


> The seat frame and springs look new where did you get these or did you restore the originals?


I got it from OPGI.


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