# Performance Add-Ons



## SledgeHammer (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone done any performance add ons yet. I am thinking about the K&N filter, mass air flow, throttle body, 1.85 rockers, and cat back exhaust. Anyone tried any of these yet? I am also thinking about the Granatelli Predator Flash Tuner. That ought to get me started. Gotta keep up with the pack.










:shutme


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## wakarr (Oct 12, 2004)

I haven't tried any of these yet but like you, I am eager to find out what works and what doesn't.
Based upon my own experience with my 1999 LS1 Camaro SS I will offer these thoughts:
1.) Shorty headers are the only emissions approved headers. Anything that moves the cats to the rear or bypasses them will usually trigger the check engine light and/or cause you to flunk the visual emissions check. Some folks have managed to get by with mid or long tubes and O2 sims but do you really want to spend $800.00 to $1,400.00 to find out if you are lucky? Shorties are usually worth 10 to 12hp and cost $500.00 to $600.00 plus installation.
2.) Cat back exhaust can yield 0-10hp and cost $500.00 to $1,200.00 plus installation. The older I get the less noise I want. I had the SLP factory optional Dual/Dual exhaust on the Camaro if it hadn't been on the car when I got it I probably wouldn't have added it. Note, my friends always new when I was coming because they could hear the Camaro well before I actually arrived.
3.) Cold air induction. This is cheap power, usually 10 to 15 hp for under $300.00 plus installation. But so far I am not impressed with the units that I have seen. They have improved ducting but seem to feed on hot, under hood, air. The stock air box seems better in this respect. I'm in a wait and see mode for now.
4.) MAF. I am not really sold on the replacement and/or altered MAF mod. I had a GMS MAF on the Camaro and all I got was a high RPM pinging for my $300.00. Suposedly the stock MAF will support up to 500hp. Unless new facts come to light I intend to pass on this mod for my GTO.
5.) Bigger throttle body. Usually wasted money unless you have a strong heads/cam/long tube headers package. I'll pass on this one too.
6.) 1.85 Rockers. Good for a solid 20 hp. I have a set I never got around to putting on the Camaro, I plan to put them on the GTO. $600.00 plus installation.
7.) Underdrive accessory pully. At $245.00 plus installation, a cheap 8-10 HP. I did it on the Camaro and will do it on the GTO.
8.) Don't know about the programmer but I'd want to see some dyno runs on a stock or lightly modified motor before I'd pop for one. Gains of less than 10 hp would probably make me pass, at 15+ hp I'm probably a buyer.

There you have it. So If you want 400 HP like the 05's I'd suggest shorties, cold air induction (when I see one I know works), 1.85 rockers, and an underdrive pully. Unfortunately the GTO is still too new to have a lot of data available but this package should get you to 400 hp with no codes, no emissions problems and without going into the computer or deep into the engine.

All the best,

Warren.


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## SledgeHammer (Sep 24, 2004)

I think I am going to try the Rockers and the K&N filter first. I am also to old for the noise of Flowmasters and if the cat back exhaust is loud I am not interested. I will probably look at the Ramcharger filter kit and if possible make my own air box for cold air. It seems counter-productive to place the filter in the hot engine compartment.

I am not to up on the new technology and have always hot rodded older cars. They are easy to make big increases with minor changes. Put an intake and carb and open element air filter on one and you can get a serious gain of performance. As kids (younger adults) we could take a mid 15 second car and by the time the weekend was up have that vehicle running bottom 13's.

My Chevelle ran 14.20's when I bought it and with a gear change, headers and exhaust, and track tune it has run a best of 12.94. I am sure most of that came from the gears. 2.73 to a 3.73. I live reasonably close to Houston Raceway Park and I think I will start my track recording soon, before I make changes. I will keep the board posted as soon as I get some information. 

I appreciate the info.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Thank you for the "real world" suggestions, wakarr.

I know that this is a "broad-brush" question, but what is a typical install time for shorty headers? For cams? For heads?

Also, any 'real world' experience with the addition of LS6 intake manifolds?

TIA.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Groucho said:


> Thank you for the "real world" suggestions, wakarr.
> 
> I know that this is a "broad-brush" question, but what is a typical install time for shorty headers? For cams? For heads?
> 
> ...


LS1's built since 2002 all have LS6 intakes !!!!! enjoy. unless you get some kind of forced induction or head/cam not much difference seen.

head & cam or headers both can be done in serious weekend work and a least a case of beer :cheers


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

westell said:


> LS1's built since 2002 all have LS6 intakes !!!!! enjoy. unless you get some kind of forced induction or head/cam not much difference seen.
> 
> head & cam or headers both can be done in serious weekend work and a least a case of beer :cheers


Cool. Good news on the intake manifold. w00t!

Heads look easy enough. Is it basically a bolt in, or are serious tweaking & adjustment time required? (You'll have to excuse my ignorance-- this is my first pushrod V8). 

Headers, however, look like a _bitch_. There are cubic acres more room to work on this engine than my old Bimmer had (_ach du lieber und sheist_ zat vas tight!), but it _still_ looks mighty tight in there. The block doesn't have to come out to install headers?


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

compared to my SS this GTO is like an airplane hanger under the hood.

probably do it all from the bottom.

heads easy, cam i've never done. serious guys here write that unless you replace oem exhaust you won't get much from head & cam. too restrictive.

i'm doubting that a little, i know it's still oem, but nice streetable combo with oem exhaust has gotta give 50-75 hp 100 with exhaust. i got some specs from a friend with a SS who tried several combos of head and cams and came up with a great combo.

oh, did anyone tell you got LS6 block, too..... yummy. 50% better crankcase breathing. LS1 blocks built in Canada, LS6 blocks built in Mexico

On the driver's side left hand deck, rear engine, you will find 125611168, denoting LS6 block  less oil consumption. you may need mirror to see.

i was gonna stripe my car myself, but it's youth hunt weekend, so i dropped it off and it's getting done right now. will get pic of matte black stripes on gloss black GTO for my avatar up next week !!!!!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Great info, westell. Much grass. :cheers 

Any chance of linking to / posting your buddy's streetable / 50-state legal mod combo? Do the SS's have LS6 blocks too?

Oh, crap! I owe you a decklid stripe termination picture! Wilco in just a little bit...


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## GasTiresandOil (Aug 2, 2004)

A nice 224 cam with a 114 or larger lobe will help. ZO6, TEA, or AFR heads will top of the engine. Let them breathe through a set of headers, long or short, and walla you have a 400 rwhp engine. Do your homework for heads once you have selected a cam. 

No one has come up with a good enough CAI to replace the stocker. Many have tried but nothing has come out worth the money they are asking, no matter how little or much. 

Exhaust will all be up to the owner but they will all net you about 10 hp no matter what system. Just get rid of the kinks and dents in the exhaust system after the resonators.

Personally, suspension and brakes come first. Engine is under warrenty for a while. Build a base to drive then add the power as the car can handle it. JMO.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Groucho said:


> Great info, westell. Much grass. :cheers
> 
> Any chance of linking to / posting your buddy's streetable / 50-state legal mod combo? Do the SS's have LS6 blocks too?
> 
> Oh, crap! I owe you a decklid stripe termination picture! Wilco in just a little bit...


Picked up my goat after lunch. Stripes are done and turned out better than anticipated.

All 02 SS's have LS6 blocks, as well as the pon-pons

Hopfully my K&N CAI is on my front porch. Personally, in my '94 Z28, I had a 15 hp gain with the K&N CAI. My 02 I just put lid & filter, but by the seat of the pants, definate increase, so getting rid oem air intake HAS been worth it. Now, I have'nt seen the guts of the GTO's intake, yet, and haven't installed K&N's so will reserve comment. Now, if I go with SLP's hood, I'll have to revert to oem airbox, but with a dremel tool I can improve on it and induction, in general. imo.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Sorry about flaking on the pix.

Glad you likee!


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## wakarr (Oct 12, 2004)

Just a word to the wise, most of the guys who do the heads & cam swap are doing custom tuning on the computer, this can turn into a lot of headaches and dollars if you don't get the combination right the first time. It is my understanding that if your dealer or a smog inspector were to link to the OBDII interface WHILE CUSTOM TUNING IS IN PLACE, they would know immediately that your car is modified which can cause warranty and emissions problems.

Basically you need to decide up front how much power you want and how much trouble you are willing to go through to get it. At the moment you can get an easy, and fairly cheap, 50 flywheel HP and still pass emissions. Much beyond that number and you may have to remove a lot of stuff to get it past the smog police.

As to your question about the good old days vs now, I've seen both and I'll take now. These newer cars require that you need to be aware of how each change affects the entire power train system but when changes are done right the car goes fast and is much easier to live with than a 60's/70's muscle car.

You mentioned gear swapping, the F body guys really rave about 4.10 rear gears. Huge seat-of-the-pants improvement. Our 6 speeds have a different gear cluster than the F body so something around 3.90 would seem to be the hot ticket, has anyone done it yet?


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## Monte (Oct 13, 2004)

SledgeHammer said:


> Anyone done any performance add ons yet. I am thinking about the K&N filter, mass air flow, throttle body, 1.85 rockers, and cat back exhaust. Anyone tried any of these yet? I am also thinking about the Granatelli Predator Flash Tuner. That ought to get me started. Gotta keep up with the pack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ive got the predator & its great.
If youve got an a4 i would definitely suggest it.
The removal of the torque management & firmer shifting of the tranny 
make the car so much more responsive & much quicker. I dont know if it adds
any hp , but it feels great. Its one of the only mods you will actually feel when you drive .
Just changing the Mass air Sensor is probably just a waste of money, as is a cat back system. 800 for 10 hp? You wont notice the difference.
The only real hp adder is a cam & head package. But do you really want to
do that to a brand new 30,000 car? Im not sure if a bigger cam will pass emmisisions. 
In my opinion I would do the mods you can install yourself. The biggest part
of owning a "hot rod" is doing the work yourself. 
Changing the rockers will net some power, but iit definitelly wiill kill your warranty.
I think im just going to put in a cold air sytem, some urethane suspension bushings & get a custom tune & have fun driving my GTO
I dont care what anyone says, this is the greatest car ive ever owned or driven & I plan on keeping it for a long time


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## SledgeHammer (Sep 24, 2004)

Just got back from the 1/4 track and my GTO (auto) ran a best of 13.79 at 100.29. It ran three 13.80's at 100.14. It sure was fun whipping up on the Mustangs and Camaros. The only race I lost was to a 04 GTO 6 speed. I had him out of the hole but he caught me on the top end. 

Now it is time for some mods.


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## ronaldvetteron (Nov 9, 2004)

Monte.....agree with you about the car. Since 1996, we have owned and traded 1996 Jetta GLX, 1996 GTI (VR6), 1998 Audi 2.8, 1998 Passat 1.8T, 1999 SAAB 9/5, 2000 Audi S4, 2000 Corvette C5, 2003 Jetta GLI (VR6), 2003 BMW M3. Now own a Mini Cooper S, the 2004 GTO, Saturn VUE RedLine, and 2004 Chevy Silverado 5.3L. The 2004 GTO has one of the best combinations of power, handling, braking, RIDE, and interior fit/finish I have seen and driven from all these cars. To me, it has all that I liked about the C5 for performance, the performance, fit and finish of the M3 all in one. While some may think I need my head examined for these comments, it is what I have come to feel. The M3 for example while basically a race car on the street made you work at delivering and handling the performance, IMO. I bought the extended warranty on the GTO because I, too, plan on keeping it for several years. CAI (maybe Lingenfelter), CORSA for a few hp and sound and knowing GM approves it for warranty.


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