# 1969 GTO engine - trying to break it free



## reel_time (Jul 22, 2019)

I was turning the engine pulley using a breaker bar (see the video here 



). But, after we turned the pully maybe half a revolution, maybe a little more, we hit a sticking point where we can move the pulley forward, but then when we take the socket off, the pulley wants to turn backwards where it started that turn. I assume I am pushing against a valve spring??? I can move the pulley forward but it isn't staying there for me to keep moving forward. Thoughts???

RT


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Saw the spark plugs removed - did you keep them out when you tried to turn it over? If not compression can build up and push the piston back down on you.

Next, saw you flopping the trans shifter. I may be wrong, but it looked as if you dropped it back into 2nd or 4th and not in neutral. It must be in neutral or you are turning the crank against the driveline and it will spring back.

With the car sitting as long as it has, there is a good chance the clutch disc will be stuck to either the flywheel or pressure plate. It should not be a problem at this time as long as the trans is in neutral - engine should still turn over for you.

The other thing could be a rusty cylinder or stuck rings. When the engine is shut off and parked for long periods, several of the valves are left open. Moisture, water, even mice can then get into the cylinders. You may want to purchase one of those cheapy bore scope cameras that you can snake down into each cylinder. It has a camera end and a screen you can view to see what things look like. There is even one that attaches to a cell phone or PC - pretty inexpensive: https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Ki...t=&hvlocphy=1021278&hvtargid=pla-569905022288


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## reel_time (Jul 22, 2019)

Well, you hit it right on. After I posted that message, I thought long and hard about why it was so hard all of a sudden, and then I realized I was likely in gear. So, my daughter and I drove back to mom and dad's house to see the car. Yep, it was in second gear. Popped into neutral, and turn she does. So, I will leave this post up, even if it is embarassing to me, in hopes someone else may learn. That was the first time I had ever turned an engine over by hand of any type. Thanks for your quick reply.
RT


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## reel_time (Jul 22, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Saw the spark plugs removed - did you keep them out when you tried to turn it over? If not compression can build up and push the piston back down on you.
> 
> Next, saw you flopping the trans shifter. I may be wrong, but it looked as if you dropped it back into 2nd or 4th and not in neutral. It must be in neutral or you are turning the crank against the driveline and it will spring back.
> 
> ...


And I will look into a camera to check things out. Now, I guess it is time to learn about the oil pump, where it is, and how to check it. And I need to drain and change the oil and filter. Oh boy!!!:smile3:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

reel_time said:


> And I will look into a camera to check things out. Now, I guess it is time to learn about the oil pump, where it is, and how to check it. And I need to drain and change the oil and filter. Oh boy!!!:smile3:



Good deal, simple solution - part of the learning process.

The oil pump is in the oil pan. You cannot check it per say, unless you pull the oil pan. But no need. What you will want to do is prime the oil system since it has been sitting so long. This will get oil up and into all the contact areas that require the oil. I would not spin the engine over too much more, because the oil film can diminish over time and you don't want to damage a bearing if it is a little on the dry side.

I suggest you purchase a 1969 Service Manual which will have all the info you need to know about the mechanics of the car. This will answer many of your questions.

You can change the oil & filter (remembering to fill the filter and put oil on the rubber sealing ring before installing the filter - DO NOT use a Fram filter), but then you want to "prime" the engine's oiling system. This will require the removal of the distributor. Not as bad as it sounds, it is only 1 bolt and the hold down clamp, and your coil wires. The trick is to have the engine timing at the No. 1 firing position - timing mark on the balancer lined up with the timing scale found on the timing cover, both valves closed (will require valve cover to be removed), distributor rotor pointing at the No. 1 contact/wire on the distributor cap. Then you can pull the distributor. This makes it 10 times easier when you go to re-install the distributor as you will know you have it correct by the position of the rotor - just as it was before removal. There is also a tang on the base of the distributor at the distributor gear. This has to drop into a slot found in the oil pump shaft - it is what turns the oil pump.

OK, once the distributor is pulled, use a flashlight to look in the distributor hole and look for the slot in top of the oil pump shaft. Make note of where it is positioned. When you prelube the the engine, you are going to spin the shaft and most likely end up in a different position. Knowing about where it was, you can then use the flash light to look down in and manually turn the shaft using a long screw driver to get it back to where it was. 

Several ways to prelube the engine. I have at times used a long, big, flat blade craftsman screwdriver to stick down the distributor hole, into the oil pump shaft, and turn it quickly by hand to spin the oil pump and get oil moving. The better way is an oil pump tool that is driven by an electric drill. It is simply a shaft that fits over the oil pump shaft and has the end to put the drill on. Then spin it over with the drill until you see oil pumping out at the rocker arms. This generally does the trick.

While the distributor is out, it would be a good time to install new points & condenser, and gap the points. You will want a new rotor and cap to go with it. Try to source a set made by AC Delco versus China. These are much better in quality. Still can find them on Ebay, and RockAuto online seems to still carry a lot of AC Delco items.

Once you have your distributor set-up, then re-install it with the cap removed so you can line up the rotor at the No 1 position it was when it came out. It may not line up perfectly, but you can get it close and then rotate the base of the distributor to get the cap No 1 wire lined up with the rotor. It should also drop down onto the slot in the oil pump shaft - you will know it is seated when the distributor housing is completely seated down into the block.

If when you are ready to start the car, I would pull the coil wire so it will not start, and crank it over a few times to get the oil pump pumping. Then insert the coil wire and fire it up.

You will want to rebuild the carb. No doubt the gaskets have dried out and the needle and seat inside may be stuck open and you will have a carb that floods over and possible fire. You also want to rebuild the carb using a contemporary rebuild kit that uses ethanol friendly parts. The old rubber parts will break down and you will have problems - this includes ALL rubber hoses on the gas line. You will want to replace all "old" rubber line with ethanol friendly gas line. This will include back at the gas tank and the lines at the fuel pump.

If you send the Quadrajet carb out for rebuilding, make sure you use a reputable service and write down the carb ID number found on the carb. These original carbs are worth money and some shady people will substitute another for yours - especially if you don't know what you have.

It will take a little time to get all this done, but it should be done to protect the engine/car from any damage. :thumbsup:


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## reel_time (Jul 22, 2019)

Thanks so much for the help. I have the shop manual being delivered tomorrow. I'll certainly be posting more videos of the build. I'm not sure how I ended up in the 2000's forum. I wonder if someone wants to move it into the correct Era of gto

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## Scott70 (Jul 30, 2019)

Lots of good info here. Good luck with your project!


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