# check this out.



## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

went to the dealer today to see why my highway mpg is only 21 no matter how hard i try. he askes me what brand of gas that i use? i said that i usually use "cashions" down the street. he said to try BP and that my mpg would go up 3-4 mpg highway. i am pretty sceptical, but he swore by it. he worked for them for years and said the quality in brands is very different. i have always read they were all identical, but i will give it a try. 21 mpg going 70mph in 6th gear should equate to at least 25 or better.


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## Jeffs386 (Nov 1, 2005)

LOL and if that works I have some nice dry swampland here in Fla to sell you


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

That is odd. I have seen 24 mpg on freeway trips doing 80 and 2000 RPM and Traction Control on. This is pretty much standard for me and I use most Chevron and 76 Premium which in California is 91 Octane. My car is an '05 M6.

In City driving I see 17 - 19 MPG and I skip shift like from a red light I go from 1st to 3rd gear. From 2nd to 4 th gear and if I see enough room between red lights I might go on to 6th gear at 1100 - 1500 RPM.

However, every once in a while I stomp on it to get the "cobwebs" out of the system and all that moisture in the exhaust. Just to remind myself it is still a muscle car. 

You should see more the MPG than 21 if you have been babying the car like you said.


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

exactly! i baby it to the extreme. skipping gears, etc. i'm annoyed. but, if the a/f mixture was wrong, wouldn't the cars computer trip a code? it must be pretty correct to have not thrown a code yet?


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## redrocketgto (Jul 14, 2005)

Fuel is different from one brand to another,check toptiergas.com.I use only Shell in all 3 of my cars.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*As I posted previously on how well my car gets great highway MPG.... I do not let the tank get below half, and I alternate premium 92 octane to middle grade 89 octane gas on fill ups. The gas I use is...... either from Wawa ( minute market ) or Bj's. (similar to Sam's Club). When I registered my 28.4 on a long haul I filled up with Amoco. When I got 27.6 on a long haul I was using Bj's fuel.

Wawa gas and Bj's gas is not prime fuel, but I am getting great mpg with them. 

I would tend to think if you are only getting 21 mpg at best on highway, there may be something wrong. I'd insist on a tune up. I am getting 19-20 in a combination of town and highway driving. 17-18 in town driving. *


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## 36Goat (Jun 23, 2006)

I used 92 at US gas in Phillipsburg. Got 26.0 to the gallon on the way to Virginia.


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

thanks guys.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

GTO judge said:


> *As I posted previously on how well my car gets great highway MPG.... I do not let the tank get below half, and I alternate premium 92 octane to middle grade 89 octane gas on fill ups. The gas I use is...... either from Wawa ( minute market ) or Bj's. (similar to Sam's Club). When I registered my 28.4 on a long haul I filled up with Amoco. When I got 27.6 on a long haul I was using Bj's fuel.
> 
> Wawa gas and Bj's gas is not prime fuel, but I am getting great mpg with them.
> 
> I would tend to think if you are only getting 21 mpg at best on highway, there may be something wrong. I'd insist on a tune up. I am getting 19-20 in a combination of town and highway driving. 17-18 in town driving. *



I think there is something wrong with your car (in a good way )- you are getting better than advertised mileage- which even equaling is a feat in ANY car. I average 18.7 with every tank with a mix of highway, city and abusing it- and this is with the Procharger on. Got in the mid 19's before the blower. I can squeeze out 22-24 on longer highway trips depending on driving. I don't think there is anything wrong with anybodys GTO that is getting low 20's- sounds more like the rule than the exception from what I have heard from many owners. Hell, like others have said- 400 hp and 3800 lbs- can't expect too much .
Joe


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> I think there is something wrong with your car (in a good way )- you are getting better than advertised mileage- which even equaling is a feat in ANY car. I average 18.7 with every tank with a mix of highway, city and abusing it- and this is with the Procharger on. Got in the mid 19's before the blower. I can squeeze out 22-24 on longer highway trips depending on driving. I don't think there is anything wrong with anybodys GTO that is getting low 20's- sounds more like the rule than the exception from what I have heard from many owners. Hell, like others have said- 400 hp and 3800 lbs- can't expect too much .
> Joe


The MPG I posted is the BEST I have gotten. I don't go on long trips all the time. If I had to give an average for all my driving, I'd have to say its about 19-21 mpg. When I go on long trips that is when my mpg increases, but that is non stop. Others have reported getting in 25-28 mph as well. By no means is this all the time I am getting 28 mpg. 

As I stated previous, our engines are not all created equal. Some are getting better performance than others, including oil usage.


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## MJGTOWISH (Jun 15, 2006)

GTO judge said:


> The MPG I posted is the BEST I have gotten. I don't go on long trips all the time. If I had to give an average for all my driving, I'd have to say its about 19-21 mpg. When I go on long trips that is when my mpg increases, but that is non stop. Others have reported getting in 25-28 mph as well. By no means is this all the time I am getting 28 mpg.
> 
> As I stated previous, our engines are not all created equal. Some are getting better performance than others, including oil usage.



Ok I am getting sick of these post,You need to the follwing. Get a Tuneup check you spark plugs. Have youre ecu checked out to be sure the goat is not running rich. check you airfliter I had a friend who has an grand piix 75,000 miles chaned filter once changed it got 3 more mpg. And check your cooliant levels espicaly if you live somewhere hot, And youre oil!!


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

redrocketgto said:


> Fuel is different from one brand to another,check toptiergas.com.I use only Shell in all 3 of my cars.


Redrocket is 100%correct. In fact, GM has a technical service bulliton for all their vehicles to use toptiergas recamended fuels only.:cool


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

MJGTOWISH said:


> Ok I am getting sick of these post,You need to the follwing. Get a Tuneup check you spark plugs. Have youre ecu checked out to be sure the goat is not running rich. check you airfliter I had a friend who has an grand piix 75,000 miles chaned filter once changed it got 3 more mpg. And check your cooliant levels espicaly if you live somewhere hot, And youre oil!!




*If you're getting sick of the posts, you have a simple decision to make. Don't read em'.*


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

gto judge is spot on. get over yourself. this wasn't one of my MPG questions that annoys some of you. it was a gas question. if you don't like these kinds of topics, don't read them.


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## TexasAggie (Mar 2, 2005)

enjracing said:


> gto judge is spot on. get over yourself. this wasn't one of my MPG questions that annoys some of you. it was a gas question. if you don't like these kinds of topics, don't read them.


:agree 

We're here to help one another as we all have something in common, a GTO. There aren't limitations to what someone should or should not know.:cheers


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## Mickey21 (Jun 18, 2006)

:willy::willy::willy:


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## MARS (Jan 17, 2005)

I think it does matter what brand of gas you use. I recently purchased a programmer ( which by the way woke up the car ) from superchips. As soon as I did install, I notice the differenced but also a lot of pinging under hard acceleration. I called them right away with the problem and they told me to use better gas, like from chevron. Sure enough this fixed the problem. So I think the brand of gas does matter, but this is just my 2 cents worth.


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

ok guys. we will all find out soon. i ran my tanj of crappy gas out almost to the vapors and put in 93 BP. we wil see what happens with me doing everything identically driving wise and using the exact same freeway route.


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## smyles (Jun 19, 2006)

*Better Mileage*

One other thing that EVERYONE needs to know. Here on the west coast we have Arco gas. This gas as with other off brands has up to a 10% ethanol blend. This can be BAD on mileage. You will see a 5 to 10% drop in mileage using the ethanol blend fuel. To avoid this, use ONLY Chevron, Shell, Unocal. These providers use other fuel blend additives to meet emission standards.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

smyles said:


> One other thing that EVERYONE needs to know. Here on the west coast we have *Arco* gas. This gas as with other off brands has up to a 10% ethanol blend. This can be BAD on mileage. You will see a 5 to 10% drop in mileage using the ethanol blend fuel. To avoid this, use ONLY Chevron, Shell, Unocal. These providers use other fuel blend additives to meet emission standards.



*ARCO????? Man -o Days.... Here in Lancaster, PA those ARCO gas stations are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG gone. Back in the 70's here ARCO was all over.... One by one they began to disappear... Now they are gone. I thought ARCO was no more..... I used to work for the only Shell station in the area when I was in HS, they went belly up, but Shell I know is still around....*


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## BostonF4$ (Jun 21, 2006)

Don't cali cars have different emissions laws than everyone else?? I dunno I'm just going by my bike knowledge. I know that every sportbike on the west coast will dyno about 10% less HP than any other state. I think you can take off whatever it is that restricts power output, but what I'm saying is if this is true for cars as well then it would effect gas mileage as well right?


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

smyles said:


> One other thing that EVERYONE needs to know. Here on the west coast we have Arco gas. This gas as with other off brands has up to a 10% ethanol blend. This can be BAD on mileage. You will see a 5 to 10% drop in mileage using the ethanol blend fuel. To avoid this, use ONLY Chevron, Shell, Unocal. These providers use other fuel blend additives to meet emission standards.


Damn...I didn't even know it was possible to get gas WITOUT ehtanol. I run QT, Citgo, and Phillips 66 here in St. Louis. I'll have to start looking to see if some of them don't have ethanol.


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## mjadams87 (May 19, 2006)

i beleive boston is correct. i havent seen any places out here in california that are higher than 91 and i beleive the LA county has very strict emissions. I had a chemisty buddy tell me about a recent project proving that all brands of gas in the LA county were identical. Acro, shell, mobil... ect ect. they had to go through very strict measures. But as soon as you get outside of LA county you have to watch the **** out.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

mjadams87 said:


> i beleive boston is correct. i havent seen any places out here in california that are higher than 91 and i beleive the LA county has very strict emissions. I had a chemisty buddy tell me about a recent project proving that all brands of gas in the LA county were identical. Acro, shell, mobil... ect ect. they had to go through very strict measures. But as soon as you get outside of LA county you have to watch the **** out.



All Kalifornia spec gas is refined in the same refineries. There is absolutely no difference from brand to brand. I know that Las Vegas gas is Kalifornia fuel, and I know that western Arizona gas is too. I'm not sure if as far east as Pheonix they use the same crappy fuel though. I lost almost 10% hp on my 2002 LS1 Z28 when I moved from Pennsylvania to the peoples republic of Kalifornia. Some of that was from the octane being lower, (94 in Pa vs 91 Ca.) but I sure a bunch of it was due to the blend of fuel also.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> I moved from Pennsylvania to the peoples republic of Kalifornia.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

did the test..............using the cheapest "cashions" brand fuel, got identical mileage and the car ran exactly the same with the same seat of the pants feel. even the conditions were almost identical. my decision........ run the cheapest gas as long as it is the high octane. the difference between the BP in my neighborhood and the cashions brand is 10-15 cents. that adds up.


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## smyles (Jun 19, 2006)

FYI

http://www.arco.com/gas/faqs.php#17


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I have had the car for 79,000 miles...and the _highest_ average MPG I've yet to see for my daily commute is just over 21 mpg.

Deal with it accordingly.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Never heard someone say "I just bought a $30k car that is 400 hp and I'm going to run the cheapest gas possible" before. Oh well, at least it's not my car .
Joe


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> Never heard someone say "I just bought a $30k car that is 400 hp and I'm going to run the cheapest gas possible" before. Oh well, at least it's not my car .
> Joe


As long as it has the correct octane and the right blend of detergents and such, I don't care if it's called pee pee power gas. IMO when you go to a branded gas station you get consistant quality while at an off name you take more of a chance. If you find an off name and consistantly run well with it there is no reason to spend extra for a brand.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

GTO judge said:


> The MPG I posted is the BEST I have gotten. I don't go on long trips all the time. If I had to give an average for all my driving, I'd have to say its about 19-21 mpg. When I go on long trips that is when my mpg increases, but that is non stop. Others have reported getting in 25-28 mph as well. By no means is this all the time I am getting 28 mpg.
> 
> As I stated previous, our engines are not all created equal. Some are getting better performance than others, including oil usage.


gm recamends to use only bp or shell gas ,but been to some phillps gas staitons where you could smell that it was good gas when i was filling it up


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

I'm new to the forum. have a 06 cyclone gray m6 17, but wish they wher 18. bought on 05/25/06. brother has a 05 black a4, when u take off from the line his dont wheel hop. have to get me some 18. or summer tire's.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

burnz said:


> _gm recamends to use only bp or shell gas_ ,but been to some phillps gas staitons where you could smell that it was good gas when i was filling it up


*BOLONEY​*


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

this is what they say. it was on a web site by gm


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

plus they have run clean in it. had alot of injectors get cloged from cidco


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

since I started to use only good gas had not had a problem yet. had a winter beater buick centry has 243000 miles on it never cleaned injectors. runs like a top.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

burnz said:


> this is what they say. it was on a web site by gm


*It is recommended because BP, and Shell is paying for that marketing advertisement. GM also recommends Mobil 1. It doesn't matter what brand of gas you use as long as it meets requirements set forth by the manufacturer. 

And what does the owner of the car do if he or she lives in an area where Shell, or BP is not available? 

You have a pretty powerful sniffer if you can distinguish superior gas from inferior gas by sniffing.

Don't believe everything you read when it comes to marketing. Brainwashing is a powerful tool used by many manufactures to lure you into thinking... use only their product or else.

Your injectors get clogged not because you are using a brand of gas not recommended. Injectors will become clogged in time if not properly maintained, not because you are using Sunoco instead of BP. 

Here is 1 example.....Injectors can get clogged when dirt particles enter the injectors. If you pump gas that is contaminated, say the gas storage tanks were filled and you pump your gas and some particles get through the filters at the pump, it enters your gas tank. Over the years this adds up. In the bottom of your gas tank the dirt particles accumulate. When you pump gas, the particles are swooshing around, before you know it, the particles find their way through the fuel lines and eventually to the injectors. Before you know it, you have some injector issues. This has nothing to do with the brand of gas, but the process of storage and use. When you see a tanker pumping gas at your favorite BP or Shell station, wait to fill up until any kind of dirt particles rest to the bottom of the storage tanks to reduce the chances of getting the contamination in your tank. The pumps have a filtration system to help filter the dirt but it's not always 100%. ALL gas storage tanks have some sort of dirt in them. 

How do I know this? The tooth fairy told me.*


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

sunoco is good gas to but in IL, we dont have those . when I lived In new york we had them . dont they have a 97 octane.


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

Ive worked on cars for 20 odd years and you CAN definatly smell good gas from bad both the fuel itself and the vehicles exhaust.The smell of good gas is a great thing smell cars at the track.Different gas also has different color.I have changed 100s of fuel pumps and have had lots spilled if you know what I mean.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

plus like I said just had a bad run with cidco's. had 5 out of 8 injectors, get cloged on my 1999 siverado. I just went to them because it was easy to get In and out of. haven't been there since.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

I used to ride dirt bikes alot, back In new york. I would run 110 octane raceing gas. that stuff did smell real good when it was burning


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

burnz said:


> plus like I said just had a bad run with cidco's. had 5 out of 8 injectors, get cloged on my 1999 siverado. I just went to them because it was easy to get In and out of. haven't been there since.


I have replaced more injectors in GM and Nissans from customers using BP fuel on a regular basis I wont use it in my weedwhacker.There was actually a TSB out years ago by GM addressing BP fuels with multec injectors.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

knock on wood I havn't had a problem yet. what are you running IN your goat.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*I've smelled good gas, and bad gas....

Distinguishing Superior gas from Inferior gas by smelling it.... nahhhhhhhh

You can have Superior Gas... Say BP and have it be bad, and it will smell bad, where as you can have "inferior" gas say Sam's Club generic gas that is not smelling bad smell better than the BP... That doesn't mean BP is inferior to the generic. *


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

burnz said:


> knock on wood I havn't had a problem yet. what are you running IN your goat.


*I use the cheapest high octane and mid grade I can find in my area... That means Bj's Club, or Wawa, or Hess. The Sunoco's, BP's, and other convenience stores are much higher.

In PA gas is higher than in NJ, crossing from Phila to NJ you can see a big difference in prices. 

As I stated in previous posts I alternate between High and MID grades.87 and 92. Works for me, and I see no difference, my MPG is reflecting this as well. *


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

mostly u can smell the octane the higher the octane the pungent.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

high octane just burns more even and has a higher ignition point. so If you have a high compresstion motor like the gto or a heavy cam. and u burn a low octane fuel it igniting to early.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

fergyflyer said:


> As long as it has the correct octane and the right blend of detergents and such, I don't care if it's called pee pee power gas. IMO when you go to a branded gas station you get consistant quality while at an off name you take more of a chance. If you find an off name and consistantly run well with it there is no reason to spend extra for a brand.



I agree- but even as you put it- there are a lot of "if's" involved there . Power and octane aside (I mean, you *can* live with reduced power when daily driving a 400 hp car )- you don't know if the detergents are the same or what the hell they are adding to it. To me, it is not worth the risk- especially now that I am at the power levels I am at- bad gas or worse- filling with regular when the pump says premium will wreak havoc on things. There were a few off brand gas stations here that recently got nailed for selling regular out of the premium pump- IMHO, not worth the risk. Granted, it is all pretty much a moot point on a stock car, but the detergents and additives will have long term affects if that is an issue (keeping the car for 100K + miles or something).
Joe


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

thats the real thing like you said as long as they are a good gas staiton, it's all good.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

what you driving kwiktsi.


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

I use only SHELL of SUNOCO in the GTO 91 min and in my daily driver anything that is cheap and flamable.I have seen deposit build up from crap gas and use top engine cleaner through intake from time to time to help clean it up but NOOOOO WAY not in the GTO only the good stuff usually from the same station.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

you still get good gas their, with out ethonal?


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

burnz said:


> you still get good gas their, with out ethonal?


Pump says less than 10 pecent.Ive not seen anything around me w/o 10 percent but I havent tried Citgo.Check out toptiergas.com


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

went to new york to see the folks . and I thought that before toledo.I got some gas with out ethonal in it


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## Timbersgoat (Jul 26, 2006)

I have an 06 autodog /a4 what kinda mileage should I be getting cause I swear My ole 2000 z71 tahore got better ! I think its about 11-12 mpg city and havnt been anywhere on highway yet... Either way, I dont regret buying my GTO for anything... I have NEVER loved a car so much!!


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

Timbersgoat said:


> I have an 06 autodog /a4 what kinda mileage should I be getting cause I swear My ole 2000 z71 tahore got better ! I think its about 11-12 mpg city and havnt been anywhere on highway yet... Either way, I dont regret buying my GTO for anything... I have NEVER loved a car so much!!


I also have a 05 Z71 gmc sierra ext. w/5.3 it gets 20 mpg on the highway my gto got 23.5 going 80-90 mph w/the air on


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

Timbersgoat said:


> I have an 06 autodog /a4 what kinda mileage should I be getting cause I swear My ole 2000 z71 tahore got better ! I think its about 11-12 mpg city and havnt been anywhere on highway yet... Either way, I dont regret buying my GTO for anything... I have NEVER loved a car so much!!


I'm sorry, I have a 06 m6 I get 17 ampg ,thats driving her like I stole it for half the time on a 20 mile trip to work.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

burnz said:


> what you driving kwiktsi.


05 M6 with a procharger setup. Have a long way to go still to get it where I want power wise, but I did 474 hp/413 tq last night on the "box" tune that came with it. There is a lot more to be found in a good tune and with IAT timing retard reduced.
Joe


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> 05 M6 with a procharger setup. Have a long way to go still to get it where I want power wise, but I did 474 hp/413 tq last night on the "box" tune that came with it. There is a lot more to be found in a good tune and with IAT timing retard reduced.
> Joe


have a 06 m6 still stock i'll be putting a supercharger on her over the winter with a better cam. I've only seen a magna charger for the goat. Is that pro charger differnt.


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


where in the world did you find your anti theft device, does it really work well,i might have to get one.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

bluhaven said:


> where in the world did you find your anti theft device, does it really work well,i might have to get one.


*Actually it does work. Ole Bertha is wedged in there pretty tight, there ain't a shoe horn big enough to pry her out. As a matter of fact 2 thugs tried to steal my GTO and she uglied them away.

She is a hottie.*


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

burnz said:


> have a 06 m6 still stock i'll be putting a supercharger on her over the winter with a better cam. I've only seen a magna charger for the goat. Is that pro charger differnt.


Completely different setup. The Procharger is a centrifigul (sp?) blower. I got mine from T-Byrne (www.tbyrbne.com). They have the Magnacharger, Vortech and Procharger setups there.
Joe


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Completely different setup. The Procharger is a centrifigul (sp?) blower. I got mine from T-Byrne (www.tbyrbne.com). They have the Magnacharger, Vortech and Procharger setups there.
> Joe


thanks alot I'll have to give a look at them. I have a some time to look around,would like to let the motor ware in some more. plus I had paid off my 05 gmc truck to buy my gto at a better rate. wish I did'nt have to have it right now. If Ionly waited 2 mo. could of got in on that zero% deal. but I still got the color and m6 that I wanted. love my car ,paid $31632. out the door. would like her just as much if had paid sticker. will be doing my mods over winter when she in hibernation.


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## burnz (Jul 26, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Completely different setup. The Procharger is a centrifigul (sp?) blower. I got mine from T-Byrne (www.tbyrbne.com). They have the Magnacharger, Vortech and Procharger setups there.
> Joe


Just got a look at that site thanks. that procharger look a bit easyer to insall. do you know if that produces more horse power than the magna charger. on the site thy say the pro charger adds up to 50 %, more is that true. Anouther site said the magna charger added 125 to 130 horse power to the wheels. THANKS AGIAN


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

burnz said:


> Just got a look at that site thanks. that procharger look a bit easyer to insall. do you know if that produces more horse power than the magna charger. on the site thy say the pro charger adds up to 50 %, more is that true. Anouther site said the magna charger added 125 to 130 horse power to the wheels. THANKS AGIAN


It will make more "peak" power than the maggie, the maggie will make more power under the curve which certainly makes for a faster "feel" and possibly slightly quicker ET's- BUT the Procharger offers almost limitless possibilities from there, the maggie is very limited as to what it is capable of. I did 474 hp and 413 tq to the wheels with the procharger tune (which I heard really sucks for power) and a small water/alky shot (7 GPH nozzle, have since gone bigger) on a 90 degree day, so it makes decent power . Magnacharger claims 480 WHP, but that all depends on temp, vehicle, conditions, dyno, etc. I have heard 480 and I have heard 440 from people.
Joe


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