# starting body work



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

started blocking the epoxy primer down today, the stuff is like ceramic,I am cutting it down with 80 grit and taking the peel out of it and exposing any low spots, scraping them with a thin coat of filler and sanding down to 120 grit before surfacing primer, plan is two more sand and prime coats before base coat. Question is, what should my final sand be before final primer coat?:confused


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm no expert, but when I did mine, my final before the prime coat was 320-400 grit. One thing I found when blocking my '67 was that a very LONG longboard helped get the panels wave free. I used an 18 incher, but now there are even better ones out there. Long longboards really get down to business when doing these cars. Also, they have rounded foam forms at auto body supply houses to use around your wheel housing lips, etc. Have fun.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks GeeTee, just picked up 18" board and roll of 150, have foam tube also, thats what i was thinking first block down to 150, second down to 220, final down to 320, color sand base at 400-600 before clear, no expert either, just don't have the cash for a 5000 paint job


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## 1FAST6 (Dec 27, 2010)

sounds like your on the right track.
check here for good info in there forum. How to Paint Your Own Car, Auto Body Discussion Forum and Videos | Learning how to paint your own car and general automotive restoration


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## Thor7352 (Oct 11, 2010)

Instg8ter,

The epoxy primer is terrible for sanding! I learned on the first fender I did, to scuff the epoxy primer and then use a 2K (2 part) High Fill Primer over it. It sprays on really thick. It's very easy to sand with a 120 grit and since it is slightly lighter in color you will see the high spots as you sand down to the darker epoxy primer. It truly is amazing how much waviness and imperfections you can eliminate with the high-fill primer. 

Since I intended to use a urethane basecoat-clearcoat I chose to use this product for surfacing and block sanding;








Sherwin Williams FP410 and FH411 Hardener

Post Pics!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

will be using Matrix 2 part high fill dark gray over the black epoxy and Matrix BC/CC, the 80 grit seems to cut the epoxy down smooth w/o cutting through, figure it will save me a coat of primer if i use it as my guide coat as the epoxy is on there thick and hard as a rock, will shoot some pics tomorrow and post to my photobucket, have one fender blocked down have to go get the primer in the morning and a new compressor as mine decided to take a dump today, just when i need it most. Is removing the bumper at the frame mounts the easiest way? gonna take it one panel at a time so i do not overlook any spots.

http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/g372/instg8ter/1966 Tempest/


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Yes, Remove the bumpers WITH the frame mounts....as for the prep and paint.....I never touch the stuff. So I can't offer any advice. There are guys on the Performance Years Forum who are very knowledgable in this area. I think Randy (05GTO) did both his cars......:cheers Eric


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

Instg8ter said:


> thanks GeeTee, just picked up 18" board and roll of 150, have foam tube also, thats what i was thinking first block down to 150, second down to 220, final down to 320, color sand base at 400-600 before clear, no expert either, just don't have the cash for a 5000 paint job


with most bc/cc paints it is not desirable to sand the base coat if you shoot clear within the recoat window. i usually wet sand with 400 before the primer sealer and base coat.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

using the matrix 2k primer there is no need to go any finer than 180 grit before priming. the key is you dont want any of the 80 grit scratches left so sand them out with the finer paper. when blocking the primer, finer paper (like 320,400 etc)rides over the humps more and doesnt cut things as flat as possible. no need to change grits as you go. block every primer coat with 180 then final sand with what you want to paint over. i like to paint over 600 wet, but i dont usually use sealer. you dont want to color sand the base before you clear it. you might get away with that on black or white or some solid color, but with the metallic blue it will ruin it. however i do like to slide a piece of 1000 grit over my base on the next to last coat to get rid of the trash that has accumulated, then spray on one final coat of base and start blasting clear.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree with Eric having gone thru this a bunch of times. Use a floor jack and a helper to remove the bumpers. The washers are "keyed" into the frame and are adjustable. You may want to make note of their present position if the bumpers fit fine. I'm an stubborn old school guy with the paint, and I don't like clearcoat on these cars.....too shiny, and not how they looked when new. Also, I have yet to see a clearcoat that will last more than 10 or 12 years. The stuff flakes off like sunburn and you have to redo the whole car. I know that 98% of the pros use base/clear, and I hardly qualify as an amateur, but I like single stage paint jobs on these cars. I've got 26 year old paint on the '65 and 18 year old paint on the '67 and they still look great.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

66tempestGT said:


> using the matrix 2k primer there is no need to go any finer than 180 grit before priming. the key is you dont want any of the 80 grit scratches left so sand them out with the finer paper. when blocking the primer, finer paper (like 320,400 etc)rides over the humps more and doesnt cut things as flat as possible. no need to change grits as you go. block every primer coat with 180 then final sand with what you want to paint over. i like to paint over 600 wet, but i dont usually use sealer. you dont want to color sand the base before you clear it. you might get away with that on black or white or some solid color, but with the metallic blue it will ruin it. however i do like to slide a piece of 1000 grit over my base on the next to last coat to get rid of the trash that has accumulated, then spray on one final coat of base and start blasting clear.


I've seen his paintwork in pics, I would trust him!!:cheers


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

here,s where i am at, cutting body lines down until i just kiss metal, everything down to 120, will be pulling trim and detailing edges on drivers side hood and trunk over the weekend, then flip her around for the good side. will fill and smooth low spots then spray with 2K primer with guide coat and block to 180 to see where i am at.

looks like i can rent the HS spray booth and it is just 3 miles from my shop, will be able to trailer over and back so i may be painting before spring. have my daughter checking into it next week for me as her and her BF know all the shop teachers.

so, hopefully by june i will be posting a pick of my Bahama Blue Metallic Tempest in the reader's rides...Fingers still crossed. Happy New Years Guys!!! be safe


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

Instg8ter said:


> here,s where i am at, cutting body lines down until i just kiss metal, everything down to 120, will be pulling trim and detailing edges on drivers side hood and trunk over the weekend, then flip her around for the good side. will fill and smooth low spots then spray with 2K primer with guide coat and block to 180 to see where i am at.
> 
> looks like i can rent the HS spray booth and it is just 3 miles from my shop, will be able to trailer over and back so i may be painting before spring. have my daughter checking into it next week for me as her and her BF know all the shop teachers.
> 
> so, hopefully by june i will be posting a pick of my Bahama Blue Metallic Tempest in the reader's rides...Fingers still crossed. Happy New Years Guys!!! be safe


if you want to keep your body lines straight put a piece of masking tape as straight as you can so one edge of the tape is right on the peak of the body line. then put your guidecoat on and then block sand up to that edge in a diagnal motion. when you have it sanded bemove the tape and put it on the other side of the body line and sand up to it again. that will help you keep the body lines straight.

you should have already removed the mirrors, door handles,locks and bumpers.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree Free, just got a little ahead of myself on blocking, chrome is coming off first thing tommorow before i do my skim coat. I will work the edges and details while its drying and I have to do a little shimming on the front fender. All in all for a 45 year old car it is pretty straight.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

looks like it is shaping up real quick. if the other side is that good you will be painting in no time. :cheers


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks shane, should i let it cure out for a few weeks after 2k primer and final block sand to get it straight before i lay base and clear, i hear that way any sanding scratches will show up and be taken down with the wet sand to 400 and 600


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

Instg8ter said:


> thanks shane, should i let it cure out for a few weeks after 2k primer and final block sand to get it straight before i lay base and clear, i hear that way any sanding scratches will show up and be taken down with the wet sand to 400 and 600


its not necessary. follow the directions of the paint maufacturer and stay within their recoat windows.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

heat is more important than time. i know its tough this time of year especially where you are but getting it good and hot for a couple hours will do more good than sitting a few weeks at 40 degrees.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks guys will crank up the heat to warm up the panels when i get it in grey.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

skim coated filler over the low spots and have cut them back down except for rocker panel and back of quarter. Is it natural for the door to "belly" out a little from the gap at the fender, i realigned the fender it was a little proud, so the edges are aligned and the body lines are correct. I ran a skim coat over it to smooth it in somewhat, seems to be a natural crown to the door panel as the other side is similar. should have this side ready for primer in the next few days.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

I do think that is a natural bow between the fender and door. GOOD LUCK with the paint....E:cheers


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

they dont usually match perfectly. i lined up the top and bottom of mine but the middle of the fender sticks out a little past the door on both sides.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks guys, just wanted to make sure, thats exactly the way mine is, the gaps are perfect all the way around. just don't want to over fill if thats the way it was out of the factory. i am assuming the same for my panel welds. just scuffing and painting, not over restoring. Even left the factory run on my firewall...LOL.


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## 68Resto-mod (Nov 10, 2009)

I am doing a 68 resto and my Body By Fisher manual shows a slight misalignment between the rear edge of the fender and front of the door is required to provide clearance for the door panel to swing in when the door is opened. Otherwise, the panel edges could clip each other. This would be bad.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks 68 thats what i assumed was the case, mine clears nicely with a clean even gap now.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

have filler skim coat sanded back down am running back over any imperfections with Body Icing (great stuff), will block that down one last time then on to the other side. Passenger side should be just block and Icing then a couple coats of 2k primer and do it all over again. Lottsa respect for you body and paint guys, thanks for your help.

I am able to rent the spray booth at the local HS for 200.00 a day, includes use of all equipment. I have to supply tape, masking material, and paint supplies. Sounds like a good deal, was going to get a new compressor to do it in the garage anyways, so renting the booth will be cheaper than just buying that not to mention all the prep i would have to do. Figure i should have body ready in a month, drop in the engine after primer, so i won't have to worry about screwing up the new paint. should give me a month before spring to get the interior in and tune the engine.arty:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

been skimming and sanding, have drivers side smooth and ready for high build prime. working the inside edges of the trunk as the upper rail has some pitting, wire brushed then coated in por15 last night, skimming with body icing to fill pitting, then on to the roof and trunk this weekend if i get time, passenger side should be the easiest, as the drivers side was facing the prevailing wind in it's 34 years in the carport. think the tire was bouncing around in the trunk for a while there were a lot of shallow depressions in the quarter behind the wheel well.

WOW! 5 Tempest's in the top 15 posts, must be a new record


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

Instg8ter said:


> been skimming and sanding, have drivers side smooth and ready for high build prime. working the inside edges of the trunk as the upper rail has some pitting, wire brushed then coated in por15 last night, skimming with body icing to fill pitting, then on to the roof and trunk this weekend if i get time, passenger side should be the easiest, as the drivers side was facing the prevailing wind in it's 34 years in the carport. think the tire was bouncing around in the trunk for a while there were a lot of shallow depressions in the quarter behind the wheel well.
> 
> WOW! 5 Tempest's in the top 15 posts, must be a new record


just a suggestion. dont use por under painted surfaces. sure hope you arent going to prime or paint it with the bumpers on. there are only 10 bolts to remove them. personally if it were mine i would remove the fenders and doors too.
its so much time and money to paint a car nowdays you might as well do it right.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i am removing the bumpers, and trim as soon as i can wheel it out from the wall to spin it around, just havn't had an extra set of hands to help me remove them being a one man show. mounted the new trans and strapped it up, installed power steering gear box also so i can roll it around. Need to get under it tonight and install console shift cable and adjost to finish conversion from column.
The only place i had to use the POR on the body is in the trunk jambs because of the pitting. The fenders are staying on, the door jambs are already sprayed with the base coat. have another few months before it will warm up enough for me to spray the high build in the garage so i am not rushing it. I will be spraying base and clear in a booth.


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## Thor7352 (Oct 11, 2010)

Instg8er,

The car is really coming along nicely. What product are you using for 'icing'? Is that just a light weight filler used to take out waviness?

Keep up the good work!

-THOR


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

hey Thor, it's called auto body Icing by USC, two part pourable, brushable polyester finishing putty. guys at the paint shop recommended it, a little pricey but you can smooth/work it right until the catalyst starts to kick in to take down any ridges as it thickens and it sands glass smooth and feathers easy with 120-180, was checking out your build last night, the chief will like it, see he is in the filler stage too, that bondo's a B**** to sand and feather, i found with the icing you just need to rough the bondo down with a DA then rough block it to level and skim with icing to take out any shallow lows. That works out better for me then sanding as i am used to working drywall compound and always take the attitude that the better i am with the knife, the less nasty sanding i will have to do, customers appreciate it too, just a light feather block sand and prime.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

My buddy that is a really good body guy is doing my 66. I asked him for a supply list, and he wants this Bondo to do it. He says it's the best and easy to work, and he is doing the arm work-sanding. I don't know, but he is the one doing the work and says it's the best, so I agree. 8/10 gallon through eastwood is $29.95, but was backordered. I found it for $21.95 through Auto Body Toolmart for $21.99 plus $9.95 shipping.
USC Fuzion Lightweight Autobody Filler - 16000
SKU: 8155
2 $43.98 
It's not glazing, but really good stuff.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yep, thats the body filler they recommended (had already bought the bondo ) for thicker than 1/8". The icing is a two part glaze for imperfections and scratches. I just sanded the trunk jambs and put another coat on the spots that cut through, looks smooth already and it was pitted pretty good. I am very impressed with the product its workability has saved me a ton of sanding. Used their Gelcoat filler when i did a repair on my boat and it came out nice.

The Icing is #26006

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/usc-icing-polyester-finishing-putty-p-10969.aspx


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## Thor7352 (Oct 11, 2010)

Instg8ter,

Thanks for the reply, I bought some spot filler / surfacer today and am going to try it. The high filler primer seems to take out alot of the same thing that the icing does. I had pretty good success with it on the first few parts I did. This sanding stage goes on forever though! I'm working on the trunk lid and doors right now and they take some time, but definitely worth it.

-Thor


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yep, paint will only ever be as smooth as the body is, i had some pitting in the trunk rails, the icing works great on stuff a little too deep for high fill. Plan on doing 3 coats of primer and then blocking again as soon as our Michigan weather starts warming up. costs me a fortune to keep the shop warm enough to get the metal up to 55 for paint.


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