# Should I get an 04 or 05 ??



## lightfoot (Aug 8, 2004)

Hello, I'm new to this forum...just test drove an 04 GTO and liked it quite a bit.

I'm unsure whether to get a current 04 (at a very good discount) or wait for the 05. Of course, price is important, but I'm not sure what the LS2 engine is going to give me besides the extra hp, and I don't like the proposed hood scoops, but I would like a more "refined" engine...

one thing I don't like is the way the clutch and accelerator vibrate with engine rpm on the current GTO. Reminds me of the older camaros and mustang which I've test driven. But I'm basically igonorant of GM cars, having driven mostly European cars for the past 15 years. Any suggestions ? I do like this car. It's a perfect wolf in sheep's clothing and that's what I want.

Thanks


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## DieselPwr (Jul 30, 2004)

I'll tell you, its hard to pass on the deals that are out there on the '04's. I guess that you could look at it this way....If you find an '04 that you absolutely love, go for it. If you want to order one more specific to your taste, wait for an '05.

I much prefer the looks of the 2004. One of the things that I origionally liked about the GTO was that it broke the mold of what Pontiac had been doing for the last decade or so with all the trim pieces, spoilers, and scoops. Now the pictures that I've seen of the 2005's still don't seem too bad.


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## 2tirefire (Jul 29, 2004)

I think it would really depend on what you would like. Since the 05's will be arriving soon, you could probably get a great deal on the 04. If it was me, I would be getting the 05 for mainly the LS2. I want that extra 50 HP, and that extra amount of torque. I do not like the hood scoops on the 05 either but that can easily be changed. I would figure that once this board starts to grow you can find someone that wants an 05 hood for an 04 hood. Again it really depends on what you want. I would go with 05 IMHO. just my .02


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## zgoat (Aug 1, 2004)

> Since the 05's will be arriving soon


Do you know when they are coming (as in what month)?


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## lightfoot (Aug 8, 2004)

Just saw this page. Apparantly there is a hood delete option for 2005, for a hood without scoops

http://ultimategto.com/scripts/statsexplorer.cgi?year=2005&f1=options






Oh well, I guess that leaves me still in limbo.  
50 extra hp normally would be a huge increase, but in this case it's about 15 percent more (still nothing to sneeze at).
I guess I'm wondering what other advantages the LS2 might have (such as some kind of fuel economizer feature...not sure I'm phrasing this right...like what Chrysler claims for its Hemi in the 300C). The test GTO which I was offered for 28k (good price !) was unfortunately black on black, had 1300 miles and the trip computer said 14 mpg avg. I'm going to use this as a daily driver too. Thanks !


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## DieselPwr (Jul 30, 2004)

lightfoot,

I can't seem to get the link you provided to work. However, I'm happy to hear that you can opt out of the hood scoops for '05.  

If you don't mind me asking, what is the selection like at your local dealers right now. There are over a dozen here between several dealers in western PA. If you don't want the black on black, maybe you can have the dealer get one in for you.


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

According to a marketing team memo that I pulled off of GM dealerworld, the 05' starts production in mid september with the first arrivals into the U.S. planned for December.

I like the hood.


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## zgoat (Aug 1, 2004)

thanks rock421


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## lightfoot (Aug 8, 2004)

There are two available in my town. The local dealer has sold only one all year.

So it's not an easy decision. Basically an 04 at a good discount or an 05 at full MSRP and wait till December.

Not an easy call.


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## desertgoat (Jul 29, 2004)

lightfoot said:


> There are two available in my town. The local dealer has sold only one all year.
> 
> So it's not an easy decision. Basically an 04 at a good discount or an 05 at full MSRP and wait till December.
> 
> Not an easy call.


Even after 8 months since the introduction of the 2004 GTO, a lot of dealers are still marking up this car. What makes you think you can get the 2005 at MSRP when the yarrive in December when a lot of buyers can't even get MSRP for the 04 during this month of August?


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## redgtosamurai (Aug 3, 2004)

Also keep in mind you can slap a Procharger on the LS1 and have 75-100 more horses rather than pay for the 05 LS2. You can also put the Z06 heads and cam on the LS1 for about another 110 horses. Lots of things you can do with an '04 that's marked down!


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## DieselPwr (Jul 30, 2004)

redgtosamurai said:


> Also keep in mind you can slap a Procharger on the LS1 and have 75-100 more horses rather than pay for the 05 LS2. You can also put the Z06 heads and cam on the LS1 for about another 110 horses. Lots of things you can do with an '04 that's marked down!


 :agree Very good point. The LS1 has been around the block a few time and there is already strong aftermarket support there for it. So basically you are saying that for the money you would be saving, you could make up that 50hp and then some.....


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## [email protected] (Jul 28, 2004)

desertgoat said:


> Even after 8 months since the introduction of the 2004 GTO, a lot of dealers are still marking up this car. What makes you think you can get the 2005 at MSRP when the yarrive in December when a lot of buyers can't even get MSRP for the 04 during this month of August?


I refer you to the C5 & C6 Corvette. Sure, there are dealers still trying to mark up the C5's ... but most dropped their prices to unload what they could, so that they could retain their allocation for the C6. Pontiac would likely hold back on shipping 05 GTO's to dealers who can't unload their 04's. On top of that ... if you saw a new 2004 (with a $2,000 rebate) next to a new 2005 ... would you really expect to pay LIST, or even OVER LIST for the 2004?


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## lightfoot (Aug 8, 2004)

I won't buy an 05 GTO for more than MSRP. They tried that in 04 and look what it got them. Low sales volume. 
Plus, at some point it just makes sense to get a C6 instead. I mean if some Pontiac dealer wants 37k just say you'll go get a 'vette for 8k more. 

Still thinking....I suppose you are right about horsepower and mods. I'll go back and take another look at an 04....


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## [email protected] (Jul 28, 2004)

lightfoot said:


> ...at some point it just makes sense to get a C6 instead. I mean if some Pontiac dealer wants 37k just say you'll go get a 'vette for 8k more.


You could also get a very low mileage, nearly new C5 with more guts and glory (vs. GTO) for thousands less than a GTO!

I just turned down an offer from my local Pontiac Dealer on an 04. They wanted $3,500 down, plus $436 per month on a 3 year lease (15K yr). I paid about the same lease price for a $48,000 Escalade in 1999 ... $10 more/month for a $48,000 C5 in 2001 (12k miles), and $70 less/month for a $39,000 Saab 9-5 in 2002! 

After spending all of that money ... I still would not be able to get into the back seat ... nor would my wife or son!


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## nfblair (Aug 26, 2004)

I went with the 04. Got it 3 days ago. I too pondered about the 04/05 decision. You see what choice I made. I could not see paying $6000 more (with the great gas guzzler tax) for the 05. That money would be well spent on mods and be much faster than the 05 anyway. Plus, I could not pass up 0.9% for 36 months I mean, I am paying like less than $300 to finance the car, plus they gave me the $2000 incentive to do it. It really was a no brainer for me anyway.


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

Is the 05' with the six speed supposed to have the gas guzzler tax too? I thought it was just for the auto.


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## BRIAN P. EWING (Aug 7, 2004)

I Could Be Wrong But I Think Only The Automatics Are Being Hit With The Gas Guzzler Tax.


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

I sure hope so. Either way, It's gonna happen. this is my only chance to have the 40 year split. The 65' that dad bought new, and the 05'.


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## IDrove1 (Aug 27, 2004)

The 05 is a screamer, one ride and you'll be hooked !!!!


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

You got to drive an LS2 powered car?


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## Troy Roberts (Jul 30, 2004)

I own a C5 Corvette turning 420RWHP. I had the opportunity to drive a C6 with the LS2. Let me tell you that thing just pulls. The torque curve is unreal. It's not just about the hp. The torque is usable at any speed in any gear. Hit the gas and you go. Fast.


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## Fast GTO (Aug 21, 2004)

But can you beat a deal that offers the 04 for 28K?


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

No, 28K is a great deal and I like the 04' alot. I have other reasons for wanting the 05'. The extra 50 ponies is just like the frosting on top of the Goatcake.


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## kerry (Aug 28, 2004)

*GTO convertable*

Did GTO ever make a convertable? My friend says no. I say yes becsause I saw one.


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## IDrove1 (Aug 27, 2004)

Like the saying goes , You can never substitute cubes . Make sure you have a salesman with a good heart on your test drive with a 05 !


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## MAMA (Aug 28, 2004)

*2004 or 2005*

I would like to know more about the 2005 GTO befor I purchase a 2004. I have been looking at the 2004 and was going to purchase one as soon as I get back from my Vegas trip but I am just not sure now????? 

Does anybody have any links to see what the 2005 looks like? I have heard that the hood looks different and that they have more HP. 

Money is a factor and this is going to be the first sports car that I have ever owned.


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

The Sept/Oct issue of Pontiac Enthsiast magazine has a few photos of a car that was in the TV movie "The Last Ride". Page 43 has two pictures of a red 04' with a "modified" hood. I have seen the 05' hood in the GM sales training material (book and DVD) that I pirated here at the dealership.  If this isn't the same exact hood, It's awfully close to the production piece. These pics don't do it justice. It looks pretty cool in motion.

Your gonna get the hood, bigger brakes, split exhaust, increased tach redline, and oh yeah 50 ponies/30 ft.lbs. of tourqe.

Weather you decide to take the money and run with an 04' or caugh up the cash for an 05' is up to you. You can ask ten of us here, and your probably going to get ten different opinions. Go with your gut.... DOit.....DOit.


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## Fast GTO (Aug 21, 2004)

The 05 will be a better faster car, but with 04's leaving dealer lots at $28K and in some cases $27,800 it makes for a tough decision.


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

Ooops, I guess there are 05' hood pictures littered all over the net.


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## yortsiyag (Aug 19, 2004)

First off,
Let me clarify something.04 GTO's are sinking about as fast as the titanic.
They are in no way shape or form going for sticker.They can be had for
3-4k OFF of sticker price.They are admittedly one of GM's flops of the year.
The 05's will go for sticker and discounts will come a few months later.
One look on autotrader.com will back up EVERYTHING I SAY!
The 04 GTO is a bust.I personally like the car, but it is a huge bust!


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

Then yortsi, I suggust you don't buy one.


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## AlaskaGTO (Aug 29, 2004)

kerry said:


> Did GTO ever make a convertable? My friend says no. I say yes becsause I saw one.


 Are you asking if GTO ever made a convert or are you talking about the new ones? I know for a fact that the old ones came that way, I do not know about the new ones. I have not seen a new one in convert.


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## yortsiyag (Aug 19, 2004)

rock421 said:


> Then yortsi, I suggust you don't buy one.


So what your telling me is that the 04 GTO's are HOT SELLERS?
Now that is laughable.


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## LarryM (Aug 17, 2004)

yortsiyag said:


> So what your telling me is that the 04 GTO's are HOT SELLERS?
> Now that is laughable.


I think its more of a case of the number of unts sold has nothing to do with the car being a good or desirable car. Pontiac has not done an awful lot to bring this brand new car to the public's attention. I did hear a radio ad play for about a week, but that's been about it. The whole auto industry is slow too, no division of GM did very well in the last report.

So rock421 is pointing out to you that if you don't like the car - if you don't think the car is a good value for whatever price the dealer is asking -it is simply your choice not to buy one.

--- Larry


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

Thanks Larry. I don't see how my statemant could have been taken any other way. 
If it's not blowin your skirt up, then don't do it. But don't try and let the air out of MY baloon just because you think the car is a turd.
OK everyone..........group hug!  

Brian


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## JBarnes (Jul 28, 2004)

Have a question for you guys. I tried to buy a 04 earlier this year and the dealer wouldn't consider selling it for less than $10K over sticker. Now I get a call from the dealer telling me they will sell at supplier price which they quoted as $31,134 for a 6sp prior to the rebate being applied. 

Now like the rest of you I find myself questioning the purchase of a 04 versus a 05. This dealer has five GTO's in stock and several more on the way.

Can I ask if the $31K number they are quoting me is consistent with what other dealers are selling 04's for? Can this car be bought at even a lower price?


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## rock421 (Aug 7, 2004)

I think it sounds like a pretty good deal. The 6-speed car that our sales dpt sold had a MSPR of $33,190, with an invoice amt. of $30,745.
You would only be paying $389.00 over invoice less the rebates. You could probably haggle your way down to invoice, but this sounds like a reasonable offer to me. Every dealer is going to have a different "bottom line". The rebates will vary from region to region as well. 
If they have the car you want, the make it so number one............engage!


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