# 140 mph speedometer question



## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The '69 GTO I am buying is coming with an extra gauge set that is a rally gauge set with a 140 mph and the complete dash harness for it.
Which GTOs came with a 140 speedometer? I thought all '69s were 120.


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

they were all 120 as far as I have seen in the few 69's I have had that were original..the
140 came in 69 GP and , 70 - jan? of 72 Lemans and GP when the seat belt light was introduced and the 120 speedo was used again but had a different face font and line design than a 69 has ...


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Here's a couple photos if that helps narrow down at all what car this would have come out of:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for the info.
I won't use the 140 mph speedometer then. The stock gauges are still in the car. Idiot lights and 120 mph speedometer. 
The rally gauge setup has new sending units for the 2 extra gauges. The seller of the car said I will need the harness for the conversion. It was the previous owner to the seller that acquired the rally gauges but neither of them ever got to installing. It doesn't appear to me that new replacement 140 mph speedometers aren't available.

I might decide to go with the Dakota VHX gauges. Then I'd put everything in the photo up for sale. Don't know what all that is worth but since it includes everything needed, you'd think it would be desirable. 
I think I would hang on to the stock setup since it's original to the car and is documented without the rally gauges option.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

There's usually a date printed on the back of the vinyl printed circuit that could give you a clue as to what year it was for. 
And the conversion for the rally gauges doesn't really need a new harness. Just move two wires on the instrument plug. Theres an additional wire to remove from the ignition switch for the 68 models.


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## GTO44 (Apr 11, 2016)

roger1 said:


> I might decide to go with the Dakota VHX gauges.


I love the dakota digital gauge sets. Ive installed a ton across all platforms. I usually use the VHX gauges, they have always been great and look good. But one of my current builds, a 72 chevelle restomod with an LS and edelbrock supercharger, the customer decided on the HDX set. Holy moley they are worth the extra couple hundred bucks. So much more advanced with the different color and lighting options(instead of one color you choose when you purchase), blu tooth capability to control the menu and settings from ur phone, built in soft touch navigation buttons, bigger Full color LCD screens and more. You should look into them and the RTX (more vintage styling) before you pull the trigger. 

Also i recommend the dakota GPS unit. GPS-50-2. Its a 2 wire hook up to the main box (bim cable and constant power). Then you wouldnt need to use the speed adapter and try calibrate it. Use different size tires, different gear ratios bigger rims ect and your speed is always accurate. Plus it gives you an altimeter, directional heading (north, south, east, west or any flavor in between like the new cars) and gps clock. It can also tell you the outside ambient temp like the new cars for an addition $20 temp sensor you plug into it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks. Yes, I have the Dakota VHX in my '83 Choo Choo SS El Camino. It's fantastic.
They don't make an HDX or an RTX for the '69 GTO. Also since the VHX comes with trans adapter and I find the Dakota super easy to calibrate and make it perfectly accurate, I'll just stick with that. The GPS is kind of cool though.

Btw, I am seeing that GTO Judges came with 140 mph speedometers. Not sure it's all of them or just those with Ram Air.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

I knew the 71s had 140 speedos maybe 70 also, 72 went back to 120


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

my 4 speed 355 posi Judge with rally gauges n hood tach has a 120 ,,,,

easy swap alot of guys do it ,,,, 

looks like a 69 carrier for the gauges .... flip it around and pull the upper corner bulbs
out,,,, is there a blue liner inside ? 

and as asked whats the date ,,,, its not a 70 -72 carrier/housing as they had big mounting ears on the lower corners,,, ... I suspect .... Grand Prix ....

here is a late 72 with the seat belt light and the 120 speedo and 70-72 style carrier

and the back of a Gprix housing ,,,


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

By what you say here it does sound like it's a high chance that they came from a '69 GP. I won't have them in hand until October and I will be traveling 850 miles to go get the car I will want to know what they came out of in order to advertise them correctly since I'm not going to use them or the harness. When I get them, I will post back with a photo of the rear and the date from the PCB.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So I take it that this one I found is a wee bit overpriced:








1969-72 GTO Lemans Grand Prix 140 MPH Speedometer w/ Rally Gauges & Sending Unit | eBay


Complete with Sending Units Oil Pressure & Water Temperature. Low Mileage 76,490 Original Parts All Working as they should when removed many years ago. Happy Cruising !



www.ebay.com


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

That's the same gauge design that's in my 70 LeMans


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## 1969 WT M21 XK (Oct 4, 2020)

BLK69JUDGE said:


> they were all 120 as far as I have seen in my 25 or so 69's I have had that were original..the
> 140 came in 69 GP and , 70 - jan? 72 Lemans and GP when the seat belt light was introduced and the 120 speedo was used again but had a different
> 
> 
> ...


My 1970 GTO had a 140 speedo in it. Non Judge car that I had bought from the original owner in 1980. I suppose the cluster could have been changed out, but looking back, the car had fairly low mileage which I thought was probably true mileage due to the condition of the car with tight suspension and fairly rust free for a northern U.S. car here in Upstate N.Y.


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## Gtodude2 (Aug 27, 2020)

My original 70 GTO Convertible has the 140 speedo as well.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

1969 WT M21 XK said:


> My 1970 GTO had a 140 speedo in it. Non Judge car that I had bought from the original owner in 1980. I suppose the cluster could have been changed out, but looking back, the car had fairly low mileage which I thought was probably true mileage due to the condition of the car with tight suspension and fairly rust free for a northern U.S. car here in Upstate N.Y.



No one is disputing that the 1970 GTO's had the 140 MPH speedometers. 1970 GTO's had the 140 speedo's. The question was for 1969 speedometers.

1968/69 had 120 MPH speedo's. They did not use the 140 MPH speedo. 

Now if you really want to mess with people, get a 1968-69 Firebird speedometer which was 160 MPH. Thought about having my speedo face changed to the 160 MPH and then recalibrated just to mess with peoples minds. But the numbers just seems too jammed together for my liking.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Just like my wife's Cadillac lol. But at least her model with the V8 can actually reach 143 mph.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

O52 said:


> Just like my wife's Cadillac lol. But at least her model with the V8 can actually reach 143 mph.


Well, the modern cars are better equipped in handling at that speed. 143 in a GTO, or 160 in a Firebird (if you could ever go that fast) would probably kill you just as soon as you went into that tight curve on the interstate. I've hit close to 140 in a '65 Impala I had and it was floating and had to be steered very delicately. Definitely could not take a curve at that speed or I would have exited the roadway guaranteed. Now I drove a Nascar race car around the Charlotte race track and hit 130 ish and it handled the banked curves just fine - but it was designed for that. 

Today's modern cars are indeed a big improvement in many areas over our old muscle cars.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

O52 said:


> Just like my wife's Cadillac lol. But at least her model with the V8 can actually reach 143 mph.


How has the experience been with the Cadillac O52? considering one for the wife


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

pontrc said:


> How has the experience been with the Cadillac O52? considering one for the wife


What is a Cadillac O52?


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I have a Cadillac CTS-V. The speedo goes to 200, but mine only made 176 during road tests. That's because it is an automatic. The stick shift tested at 196. The fastest I've ever been is 144, and that was at the drag strip in a Pontiac.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

She has an 07 SRX. The export versions were clocked at 143 at Nuremberg track.
I bought it for her when I returned from Iraq with my wartime savings. I had wanted the CTS-V and she wanted the SRX. Lost that one lol.

We've talked about buying a newer one but she's attached to this one. She doesn't like the cramped quarters in the new ones and she's 4'11/105 lbs.

Transmission was replaced a few years ago. We tried having it repaired at a highly recommended shop but they evidently weren't up to the task blaming GM design for our numerous return visits. Same transmission is used in the BMW 5 series from the mid 2000s Took it to Cadillac who replaced it with a GM remanufactured unit. Charged us $4k but it came with a 3/36 warranty. Currently has 210,000 miles and still running strong and looks like it did when we bought it new. We'll probably replace the engine next year or if it stops running, with a GM crate. 

Overall its been a dependable car. Eats batteries but I hear thats not uncommon for newer cars. So I buy a replacement every three years. 
Always serviced at our local dealer. They take good care of it and still give us a Cadillac rental whenever its in for servicing


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Old Man Taylor said:


> What is a Cadillac O52?


It’s one of one Taylor! Ed owns it lol


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I have these gauges in hand now.
I'd like to get a definitive answer as what I've got. I've got a guy interested in possibly buying what I've got here for his '70 GTO.

I couldn't find a date code on the circuit board. There is a blue liner behind the bulbs in the corners.
I've got a guy interested in possibly buying what I've got here for his '70 GTO.


























I took the lens off so it can be seen the condition of the gauges themselves. They look very good.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> I have these gauges in hand now.
> I'd like to get a definitive answer as what I've got. I've got a guy interested in possibly buying what I've got here for his '70 GTO.
> 
> I couldn't find a date code on the circuit board. There is a blue liner behind the bulbs in the corners.
> ...


Re-read my #15 post.

That is a 1970 gauge set, the date is the inked numbers on the circuit board, 8-27-70. I looked at my original '68 circuit board and the inked numbers show the last 2 digits to be "68" which I am assuming is 1968. So that should help.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Wouldn't 8-27-70 be for a '71?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

My thought too. And I think Scott said the blue filters were used on the Grand Prix. (Correct me if I'm wrong Scott)


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

O52 said:


> My thought too. And I think Scott said the blue filters were used on the Grand Prix. (Correct me if I'm wrong Scott)


I believe that is what he said. So it that's true, then what I have is out of a '71 Grand Prix. But it appears the gauges will work fine for the guy with the '70 GTO that is interested in buying these from me.

I compared the dash harness I got with these gauges with the one I pulled out of my '69 GTO and they appear to be identical. He might be interested in this harness too but the fuse holders in the fuse box have a little rust on them.

I don't know the value of what I have but I will want to offer them for a good deal. Any thoughts there would be appreciated. One plus is the 2 NOS senders that would go with the gauges.


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

the date would be into the 71 model year,
and yes 71 G Prix vote from me also , with the blue cups...
clean set you have there ,,,


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Re-read my #15 post.
> 
> That is a 1970 gauge set, the date is the inked numbers on the circuit board, 8-27-70. I looked at my original '68 circuit board and the inked numbers show the last 2 digits to be "68" which I am assuming is 1968. So that should help.


I stand corrected - you smoke 3 bowls of crack early in the day and see how accurate your thinking is. I was thinking about the 140 MPH speedo being 1970. Wasn't paying attention to the early 1971 build date and just saw the "70." Blue cups, clear cups, Double D cups........they all work for me when I'm tooling down the road at 140 MPH.


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