# Just ordered my APS TT kit!



## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

Well today I ordered my APS TT kit ($5695 shipped) and it's coming in in late May! I can't wait!!! Anyone else have this kit?


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## The_Goat (Mar 10, 2005)

I'm so jealous....


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## OldDog (Mar 1, 2007)

*I am DumbA*

ok guys, what is a APS TT kit?


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## 242379 (Dec 3, 2006)

Hell on wheels:willy: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrQ-B3wEuk
Hang on...


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

that thing makes you drive on the wrong side of the road like that? sure does sound like a happy fellow to say the least. anyway why do you have to wait til late may?


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## Sabraxas (Oct 29, 2006)

now I really want to check out your ride. (After the install that is  )


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Wow, you guys are out of the loop here . http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/us_gto.htm There are quite a few threads over on ls2gto.com about it. The reason there is a wait is because they are pretty much doing it as a group buy- so many spots at xxxx price to be ordered by xx and shipped on xx date.

I have one on my car, I'm waiting on my pistons, rods and other misc stuff to get here and I'll get going on tuning it. I am hoping for ~750-775 on "high" boost and 600 or so in every day trim. Very nice kit, you'll be happy with it.

Are you doing the install yourself or having someone else do it? It's not a "hard" install, but it isn't for everyone!! 
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

koman said:


> that thing makes you drive on the wrong side of the road like that? sure does sound like a happy fellow to say the least. anyway why do you have to wait til late may?


APS is an Australian company .
Joe


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

I think I'm going to have Speed Inc do the install/tune. I don't have garage space for the install unfortunately. I'm assuming you used to have a Talon? I used to have an Evo and pretty much all my friends race DSMs. It's sad that even with the APS TT kit I still won't be able to hang with their cars!!


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Yup, a lot of guys don't realize just how fast some of those 4 bangers are . I made 650 to the wheels with a procharged goat and there were still 2 talons, 4 evos, 1 integra and 2 Civics that local friends own that would just walk all over the GTO lol..

I don't know if you are familiar with them or not, but Joe P. manual boost controllers (www.joepmbc.com) is me- I have been in the DSM game since ~91 or so.

I have heard good things about speed inc- I'm sure they'll take good care of you!
Joe


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

Yeah my friend just made 550awhp on his talon with just 28 psi... the car is built to run 40... on a GT37R turbo. You prolly know AMS, which is right down the street from me... or maybe you know Albert with DVDT, he went 9s last year with his Talon... it's crazy.


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## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

Hope you saved some ching for tires.:cheers


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

pickinfights said:


> Hope you saved some ching for tires.:cheers


Gonna pick up some Mickey Ts the day the kit is installed  

...I almost typed Mickey Ds, haha. I want traction, not diarrhea


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## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

:rofl: :rofl: thats great.
By the way only mentioning this on this thread because I just saw it. 
WHY is there a LANCER ADD ON THE SIDE OF THE GTO FORUM??:shutme


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> APS is an Australian company .
> Joe


american cars in australia. odd video i thought. why not drive the monaro instead of the gto in the video if they are the same car outside the lh vs rh steering wheels? i once considered going TT but i haven't brought myself to it seeing how i haven't run across any tt'd gto's personally. i did run across a procharged one. nice but not my cup of tea. by the sound in the video i think i could tolerate the aps tt.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

They had to ship a GTO there for test fitting and such, so it is a US GTO in Australia . Another turbo company out of Australia just made one to the Monaro and called it done. They had a few fitment issues when people here got their kits.

What didn't you like about the Procharged GTO? Mine did ~650 to the wheels and pulled like a freight train . Was it the noise? Some people like it, some don't. The APS kit I can tell you is quiet- even the blow off valve is subtle and not ricer loud. If it is noise you are worried about, all there would be with this is whatever exhaust you have and even that gets toned down quite a bit with the turbos on there- they muffle the exhaust themselves. One guy on ls2gto has the 1st gen APS kit (smaller turbos than this kit), lower compression heads, mild cam and fuel system work and just did ~716hp/~760tq to the wheels, don't remember the exact numbers, through the stock mufflers- now that's quiet . 

This is a very nice, well manufactured kit. Just go to the site and read the install instructions- they alone show the attention to detail APS pays! The install is a lot of work, but the kit and instructions are very well laid out! 

Once my car gets back together, I can take some video clips of it idling and revving with the APS kit and magnaflow cat-back if you'd like. Hopefully by mid week at the latest.
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

pickinfights said:


> :rofl: :rofl: thats great.
> By the way only mentioning this on this thread because I just saw it.
> WHY is there a LANCER ADD ON THE SIDE OF THE GTO FORUM??:shutme


Because advertising money is not biased .


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

MrPopular said:


> Yeah my friend just made 550awhp on his talon with just 28 psi... the car is built to run 40... on a GT37R turbo. You prolly know AMS, which is right down the street from me... or maybe you know Albert with DVDT, he went 9s last year with his Talon... it's crazy.


Nice a friend of mine from NY just did similar numbers at the same boost level lol. His car is also capable of much more. 

Of course I've heard of AMS- with them right down the street, I'm surprised you went with a GTO, I would have a wicked Evo!! Don't know DVDT or Albert either, but I know there was an "Al" a few years back who was getting pretty fast, maybe the same guy, who knows.. People don't realize it, the DSM's are no joke in the right hands and the guys that build them (not the ricers, the serious guys) aren't aiming for 11's- that's slow. Most are headed for single digits now and the fast guys are really smoking, did I hear Shepard went 7's last year? I remember when Dave B. owned that car and couldn't get it into the 10's no matter what, so he sold it to Shep and he immediately went 10's, I think the first trip out- pretty funny.. That was the same event that Rau went 10.57 in his GSX making him the fastest 2G. Lol, look at that car now- [email protected]  
Joe


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

I had an Evo that was boosting pretty high, I just hated paying for the race gas, etc. The AL you are thinking about is Al Friedman who's Evo is in the 9s.. he's the dynoflash guy. My friend Albert has a purple 2g that went 9s last year... he's a fabricator for Tial and also makes his own intercooler kits.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

MrPopular said:


> I had an Evo that was boosting pretty high, I just hated paying for the race gas, etc. The AL you are thinking about is Al Friedman who's Evo is in the 9s.. he's the dynoflash guy. My friend Albert has a purple 2g that went 9s last year... he's a fabricator for Tial and also makes his own intercooler kits.


Alky injection works awesome with pump gas. I never used to believe in it until I used it on my last GTO. Without it, I would get a bit of knock at 8 psi and 18 degrees timing- with it, I was able to run 12 psi with 25 degrees advance and my IAT's dropped about about 40-50 degrees on a 90 degree day!

Yup, you are right- Al from Dynoflash is who I was thinking of now that you mention it.
Joe


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## 06BLUEGTO (Feb 27, 2007)

I LOVE THAT TURBO KIT!! I wish i had the money for it. haha


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## bigdawg77 (Nov 5, 2006)

Thats nice, I like that over a rear mount kit


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

Yeah, rear mounts kinda scare me having all that piping... either way I LOVE the kit, it's clean and efficient and proven. Basically I looked at superchargers, turbos, building the motor, nitrous, etc etc and I love having a fast, stock looking, quiet car... so the turbo kit was PERFECT. arty:


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## bigdisplay (Oct 29, 2006)

I've got my APS a few weeks ago. My manifolds and turbo housings just came back from getting Jet Hot coated today. I'm also doing the L92/L76 cnc ported and the chambers opened up to 74 cc by Texas speed along with a cam swap all at the same time. Still waiting on the APS fuel pump system, injectors and a stall converter. I hope to be up and running by October.


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

bigdisplay said:


> I've got my APS a few weeks ago. My manifolds and turbo housings just came back from getting Jet Hot coated today. I'm also doing the L92/L76 cnc ported and the chambers opened up to 74 cc by Texas speed along with a cam swap all at the same time. Still waiting on the APS fuel pump system, injectors and a stall converter. I hope to be up and running by October.


Damn, you're gonna be flyin too!


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## bigdisplay (Oct 29, 2006)

MrPopular said:


> Damn, you're gonna be flyin too!


Naw..... I've got the SAP spoiler to keep me on the ground.....J/K...lol...


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

*stupid question time*

I was looking into getting a maggie which runs about 500 bucks more then this crazy twin turbo setup but only gaurantees gains of 130 hp minimum. Lingenfelter says they can get 160 hp out of them so who ya gonna listen to? Why would this system be CHEAPER then the maggie setup and offer so much more hp? Do superchargers just cost more across the board then turbos do?
Dustin.


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## bigdisplay (Oct 29, 2006)

dustyminpin said:


> I was looking into getting a maggie which runs about 500 bucks more then this crazy twin turbo setup but only gaurantees gains of 130 hp minimum. Lingenfelter says they can get 160 hp out of them so who ya gonna listen to? Why would this system be CHEAPER then the maggie setup and offer so much more hp? Do superchargers just cost more across the board then turbos do?
> Dustin.


There are several issues that helped bring the cost down... I won't go into all of them and some would debate the differences, but here is what I know ( or think ).... short list...
Most of the superchargers are purpose built today unlike the old days when you just changed the intake and blower snout and used the same supercharger in most cases. ( Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc.. )
Most of the pieces ( including the turbos, blow off valves, waste gates, etc...) are off the shelf parts in most turbo kits today. 
In the case of APS, They have spent big $$ on cnc equipment to help do all of the machine work. That helps to cut down on labor and time when machining the manifolds etc....( the main part that is purpose manufactured for each application)
When a company like APS, engineers, manufactures and sells as many turbo kits as APS does, the cost will come down considerably unlike some others who only build kits for a few select vehicles.
as for making more power.... It's just the nature of the beast. Turbos do not use any engine power to make boost like a supercharger does. The parasitic drag of the supercharger eats up vast amounts of power from the motor as where the turbo is only spun by the exhaust gases with no drag on the motor. Turbos do have a few draw backs like, more complicated than a S/C to install, oil and coolant lines, higher exhaust temps and turbo lag etc..... This is not a complete list or comparison. I would tell anybody, Do your research!!!!! JMO!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

bigdisplay said:


> There are several issues that helped bring the cost down... I won't go into all of them and some would debate the differences, but here is what I know ( or think ).... short list...
> Most of the superchargers are purpose built today unlike the old days when you just changed the intake and blower snout and used the same supercharger in most cases. ( Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc.. )
> Most of the pieces ( including the turbos, blow off valves, waste gates, etc...) are off the shelf parts in most turbo kits today.
> In the case of APS, They have spent big $$ on cnc equipment to help do all of the machine work. That helps to cut down on labor and time when machining the manifolds etc....( the main part that is purpose manufactured for each application)
> ...


Good points, but some are off . The Magnacharger base will fit any LSx motor from my understanding and the manifold/blower are separate like an old blower/manifold combo also. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this one, but IMHO- the only reason for the Magnacharger price hikes and high price is "they know they will get it". 

While the Maggie is a great setup for someone who is looking for decent gains on a stock car, it has probably the worst "power to buck" ratio out of any of the FI options, especially once you start pushing it beyond "stock" levels. The nice thing is it is pretty much how the car would have come from the factory if it came supercharged, so the quality is there- but like a car with a stock supercharger, it's potential is limited. I also personally don't like the fact that it is driven off the accessory belt and prefer the dedicated drive belt like a procharger- too many issues have stemmed from using the narrow accessory belt to spin a blower. 

As I tell everyone- if you just want a simple "bolt in" FI kit and will be happy with ~500 whp and never want to open your hood again, a Maggie may be perfect for you- but if you want more, while it is capable of providing much more than that, it isn't as easy as some of the other kits and the belt starts to get troublesome.

Now, as for the APS- they have their own foundry equipment and actually cast the exhaust manifolds in house now which overall is going to keep costs down BUT cost a ton of cash up front that I'm sure will not be paid back for quite a while. The power difference is simple too- turbos are very efficient, especially compared to a roots setup (talk about old tech ), so the power gains are phenomenal- plus, due to the waste gated design of a turbo, you can simply turn the boost up or down with a manual or electronic boost controller for more or less power- so if you have a stock car that you only feel safe running say 9 psi on, leave it there. If you want to up the ante a bit, it is just a turn of a knob and you can up the boost. No pulley changes necessary and it doesn't take any more horsepower to make that extra boost like a blower does. Now all this is just a generalization, there is a lot more to it- like compressor and turbine size, flow, housings, etc., but the APS turbos are paired pretty well for an LS1/2 motor and will still support mild large cube setups too. The turbos are capable of flowing 50lbs/min at 18 psi- which is enough to support 500 hp EACH, so in an ideal setup, this kit will provide enough air for 1000 hp, possibly a bit more at the crank- yet still be docile enough to run low boost and 550 hp with ease on a stock car. This kit also is as good as it gets for an aftermarket FI setup- in fact, I would say as far as OEM quality goes- the Maggie and the APS are at the top of their game here. Once the kits are installed, both of them look like the car came from GM that way. 

Bottom line I guess is that both kits are very high quality and provide OEM reliability, but the APS kit will make more power hands down and will provide more power without any issues, whereas the maggie may prove to be difficult to extract much more out of. 

Now, if you want the power "potential" of the turbo kit with the less intrusive install of a blower- I'd recommend a Procharger. That will make much more power than a Maggie and install easier than an APS kit- but isn't quite as "oem" looking when done. It is a very good compromise of both IMHO and will make plenty of power. In fact, I did 650 to the wheels with just a P1 at 12 psi, alky and headers on a stock LS2, stock catback, etc.. I did sell that though to go APS .

I hope this kind of makes sense, I am trying to type this as I am doing my morning email replying, so if I jumped around anywhere I apologize and I will fix it later if I catch it . 
Joe


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## bigdisplay (Oct 29, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Good points, but some are off . The Magnacharger base will fit any LSx motor from my understanding and the manifold/blower are separate like an old blower/manifold combo also. Joe


My point was the " New age " blowers are not as interchangeable like the " old school " GMC roots type blowers ( in most cases )were between different makes such as GM, Ford, Dodge . I was not referring to different models within the same engine family on newer model's. But ( just guessing ) I think most of the centrifugal type superchargers are the same, it's just the kit and brackets that differ.....In most cases, BUT not all. Like I said, I wasn't debating the whole issue nor was I touching on each and every point. It was just a general over view of the differences between cost, performance and complexity of today's and yesterdays power F/I options. I'm sure a book as been written on this subject. That's why I suggested anyone interested in F/I and the different types avaliable should do their research first. Don't just rely on a bunch of nobody's ( like me ) for 100% of your information. I screw my own stuff up TOO much to be telling anyone else how to do their own.... lol... 
I do have to say though, that I agree with Joe on the pros and cons he listed.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

bigdisplay said:


> My point was the " New age " blowers are not as interchangeable like the " old school " GMC roots type blowers ( in most cases )were between different makes such as GM, Ford, Dodge . I was not referring to different models within the same engine family on newer model's. But ( just guessing ) I think most of the centrifugal type superchargers are the same, it's just the kit and brackets that differ.....In most cases, BUT not all. Like I said, I wasn't debating the whole issue nor was I touching on each and every point. It was just a general over view of the differences between cost, performance and complexity of today's and yesterdays power F/I options. I'm sure a book as been written on this subject. That's why I suggested anyone interested in F/I and the different types avaliable should do their research first. Don't just rely on a bunch of nobody's ( like me ) for 100% of your information. I screw my own stuff up TOO much to be telling anyone else how to do their own.... lol...
> I do have to say though, that I agree with Joe on the pros and cons he listed.


Gotcha. As far as I know, the Maggie blower is consistent, it is the other items that change (similar to your comparison of the old roots fitting chevy, dodge, etc.)

You hit the nail on the head with your comment about doing your own research and choosing a product that best fits *your* needs. You also have to be honest with yourself when making this choice. I have seen it happen all too often where someone will say "I'm going to buy xyz because I will never want more than that", then 3 months later the item is for sale either because their expectations are higher than the hype made it out to be or because they were happy with it, then got the bug and ended up wanting more than it could provide. That's why, to me, expandability is a HUGE consideration when making a purchase such as this, along with knowing what I am buying based on my needs, experience, etc. and not just the hype or sales pitch on a message board somewhere .
Joe


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks guys, I feel smarter just reading that, lol. 1 more question, is one any better then the other as far as every day drivability goes? The goat is my only car and I don't want to get something if it's gonna shorten engine life or abolutley assrape fuel economy.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

I'd say they will all be about the same fuel economy wise- and that is "not much worse than stock IF you drive normal". Once ANY of them come into boost, that is a different story- so your right foot will control that.

I'd say they are all just as drivable. As for shortening the engine life- there is no guarantee that anything will run as reliably as stock for as long as it would stock, that's a given. If you want it to be 100% as reliable as it was when it left the factory, then leave it as it was when it left the factory . They will all provide tens of thousands of trouble free miles though if you treat it right and don't push the levels too high. A lot of it will also depend on the tune- the thing can run safely and reliably for years, or you can take any of the kits and blow your motor before you make it around the block if the tune is wrong- so keep that in mind too. The far extremes for example only, not to scare you . While it is minimal, remember there is always risk when modding though and if you aren't willing to accept that chance, you may want to just leave it alone. Again, with conservative boost levels and a safe tune, the risk is very low to non-existant, but just had to toss it out there as food for thought as it is mechanical and anything can go wrong at any time- hell, even stock there are no promises it will start the next time you turn the key .
Joe


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## bigdisplay (Oct 29, 2006)

dustyminpin said:


> Thanks guys, I feel smarter just reading that, lol. 1 more question, is one any better then the other as far as every day drivability goes? The goat is my only car and I don't want to get something if it's gonna shorten engine life or abolutley assrape fuel economy.


A little food for thought.... A supercharger is being turned by the motor at ALL times using engine power. A turbo ( depending on the size ) only starts spooling ( making boost ) ( Also known as turbo lag ) at a certain rpm. Let's take the APS kit as an example.... The turbos don't spool until about 2700- 2800 rpm. So one could conclude that if you drove your car and shifted gears ( assuming you have a M6 ) at 2000-2200 rpms, you would never spool the turbos and you could get normal fuel economy. but like Joe said.... The harder you drive it, the worse fuel economy you'll get. And just like anything else in life.... the harder you use/treat something, the less it will last. IMO..... driven properly, a turbo would have better drivabilty and a longer life span, IF maintained properly. But..... driver beware!!!!!


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

bigdisplay said:


> A little food for thought.... A supercharger is being turned by the motor at ALL times using engine power. A turbo ( depending on the size ) only starts spooling ( making boost ) ( Also known as turbo lag ) at a certain rpm.


You are correct, but there is a flip side to this also - most blowers now have bypass valves (the maggie and procharger both do) that are open at cruise and vent the air so it does not pressurize the intake tract and put a load on the compressor while cruising- it barely takes any power to spin the blower when this is going on. 

A turbo *is* somewhat RPM dependent, but not so much so as a blower. It is also greatly load dependent- so while you are cruising down the highway and hit an incline, even though it may not build much positive pressure at a low RPM, it can still get the turbo(s) spooling, causing an increase in airflow and increased fuel demands . I'd say they both work out about even for fuel economy while cruising, with the turbo being a bit easier to hit "boost" and use more fuel.


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