# Gas Price$



## 400fitz (Jul 7, 2010)

Do you guys feel the recent surge in the prices of gas will dictate on how much you will drive your GTO this season? Also curious on what you guys are paying around the country. Here in New York City the prices pretty much change daily. Today's lowest I saw was $4.09 for 87octane and $4.29 for 93......ouch! I might try to conserve on how hard I drive my everyday truck but since I enjoying driving my GTO so much,I will just have to suck it up and pay whatever.


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## Topkat (Sep 9, 2010)

I paid $5.28 for 100LL AVGAS in NW WA.
at a small country airport.
Just got mine started so........no daily driving in my immediate future


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Since I dont live in town and I have lots of time on my hands, I have been working towards not having to pay $4 or more for gas. I started before it hit $4 the first time back in 08, and this year I wont buy any gasoline for my old cars. Since the GTO runs on E85 and my home brew, I plant to drive it more this year. Its going to be my daily driver, especially since the 98 Formula I used before will take more money to make it E85 compatible(injectors), and I cant do as much to get more mileage out of it at this point(compression).

So yeah high gas prices are going to keep me from driving my LS1 that was my economy car before, and my trucks are parked until winter as well. I just cant afford $4 gas, and here it is already $4.05 for 87, and going up again tomorrow. In 4 days I will have about 20 gallons of fuel ready, that will last me until I have the next batch done. 

I honestly feel for you guys, everyone should be able to enjoy their GTO without having to take out a 2nd mortgage. I am not trying to be condescending, it pisses me off to no end that gas costs as much as it does, and how many of us are over there protecting it some the big companies can make money on our backs. I am learning how to do this so maybe in the future I can help everyone else run their high compression muscle car, Pontiac or otherwise, on fuel they made themselves, or had friends make with them.

This is going to hurt our country again, and that pisses me off even more.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

$4.09 here for 93 and I plan of driving the heck outta my car this Summer regardless of the price of gas.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

I filled up the Charger on Monday here in Denver and it was $3.57 a gallon...which doesn't seem too bad compared to other parts of the county, but still. My family in California is saying they are paying $5 or more for a gallon of gas.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I've already scraped my plans to attend the tri-power nationals in Ohio. I am not gonna pay 5.00+ a gallon. 300+ for just gas is not setting well with me. Other factors were making me rethink my trip but the gas prices was the final decision.


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

Premium is $4.29 here and I plan on continuing to drive my cars as often as I can. I remember the first gas crunch in the 70's and I got rid of my first muscle car and I will not do that again. Since I am retired this hobby is a big part of my life now and I won't let prices affect my car activities. When gas hits $10 a gallon then I will back off a little.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

I probably won't drive my GTO at all this summer....because I doubt it will be finished. I would however like to take the boat out a few times (2mpg).......I will not let the gas prices stop me. My physical condition is gonna be my limiting factor. My wife travels 3 miles to work. We are VERY fortunate not to have long comutes. I think a good part of the gas/import/export problems will be worked on, along with the rest of the economy, in November 2012......E


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## 85_SS (Jul 26, 2010)

We're up to $1.37/L for regular here - which equates to about $5.44/US gallon at the current exchange rate ($1.05US=$1.00CDN). I haven't even been paying attention to the prices of premium... yet.

I live close to the border though and will have to make trips to the US more regular as we are overcharged on just about everything here despite the fact the dollar has been even for a long time now.

As for whether or not it will affect how much I drive the GTO - this is the first summer I will have with it, so not a chance. Just my luck that gas has skyrocketed in price over the winter, but I will still drive it as long as the sun is shining


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I have a very short commute, (under 3 miles) so I drive my Toyota pickup to/from work and use about 10 gallons a month. I will start riding my raggedy old bicycle to work in the upcoming weeks like I did in '08. Gas here is $4.10--and up for the cheapest. Since I put the economy rear end in my '67, I'm driving it more (gets the same MPG now as my 4Runner--20+), and I have been driving my '65 more because it's so much fun to drive, but it is $$$$ to fuel with race gas/booster. Driving the '65, I just don't think about it. As far as the gas prices go, I believe that the '08 spike is what really caused our economy to tank as far as it did, and I think that this ***** will casue it to tank even further....only this time, we won't have the reserves to make it "back". Extended travel is out for me, as are many trips and excursions. Not because I can't afford it....but because I'm PISSED OFF AT THE GOVT and I refuse to bend over and take it. I am determined to spend as little as possible on any goods and services. Hell, I'm in a 33% income tax braket as it is.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agree, I gotta agree with the last couple sentences there Jeff!...Eric


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

As do I, but I throw a few more people in with that and want to stick it to the oil companies too.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

I agree too. People say they're not going to give in to the gov/oil companies by cutting back on their toy usage. That's exactly what they want you to do. As long as you keep spending money with the high gas prices, you're playing right into their hands and they're smiling all the way to the bank.

Yes, I will cut back, because I will not let the fat cats get fatter on my dollar.


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## 400fitz (Jul 7, 2010)

Just thinking that this will also cause families to rethink their upcoming summer vacation plans. I also remember that back in 08 alot of boats never made into the water for the season and just remained on land in the marinas. People who purchase diesel also get whacked extra hard at the pump.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Imagine being a trucker, cabbie,farmer or anyone who drives for a living!!!!!!! We are just talking toys here, those guys are getting hard hit!


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## 400fitz (Jul 7, 2010)

:agree


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Anyone paying attention to the truckers NOT screaming about diesel prices? Remember before in 2007 they all converged in DC shutting down the town? They threatened to bring the country to a dead stop until Bush did something? Remember?

Now, NOT A PEEP. Teamsters are in heavy with this "President"along with SEIU etc, and in return he's guaranteed their pensions though bailouts and special perks. They are mum on this. This is much worse than the last time and they are now bought and paid for and their backs are covered. Private haulers can't make a stand because their work will be handed to unionized drivers. Amazing how this works uh?


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Yes it is!


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## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Here in Alabama Im paying around $3.75 for 87 octance depending on what station you stop at. I haven't slacked up buying or driving yet. As far as how much will I drive my toy? Depends on if I finish it this summer or not. I have however been driving the hell out of my 88 mustang, when I really should be driving the 4 banger ranger since its very economical. Lucky enough to have a company vehicle so I dont buy fuel to or from work everyday either.
On a side note. Been watching these "Extreme Coupon" people on tv. And Im all over my wifes tail trying to get her to start using some coupons, doesnt have to be extreme but it could help ALOT. Something you guys might want to consider if you can save $100+ a month on groceries that would help put fuel in the toy to get to some local car shows.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Anyone paying attention to the truckers NOT screaming about diesel prices? Remember before in 2007 they all converged in DC shutting down the town? They threatened to bring the country to a dead stop until Bush did something? Remember?
> 
> Now, NOT A PEEP. Teamsters are in heavy with this "President"along with SEIU etc, and in return he's guaranteed their pensions though bailouts and special perks. They are mum on this. This is much worse than the last time and they are now bought and paid for and their backs are covered. Private haulers can't make a stand because their work will be handed to unionized drivers. Amazing how this works uh?


conspiricy theories are somethimes interesting but facts are more useful. back in the 90s(i dont remember exactly when) the government instigated a mandatory fuel surcharge linked to the price of fuel. most truckers get an automatic rate increase if fuel rises. why would they complain?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

They're not complaining now as they did a few years ago because of what I mentioned. It's not a conspiracy theory its fact. Unions were recently granted another "stimulus" to guarantee pensions. They're not gonna gripe to the hand that's feeding them. They are BIG into this administration and are receiving the perks from a pro union administrator, That is the fact no matter how much spin is put out there to the contrary.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

I feel no matter how much we use of what ever fuel. The price is going to equal to that fuel and the amount of money they are making now.
So I f we cut back on use they will try to just up the price to compensate the difference in profit.

If every one would stop going to work for a week till gas prices dropped to $1 a gallon again. I bet that might get some ones attention.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

GTO JUDGE said:


> They're not complaining now as they did a few years ago because of what I mentioned. It's not a conspiracy theory its fact. Unions were recently granted another "stimulus" to guarantee pensions. They're not gonna gripe to the hand that's feeding them. They are BIG into this administration and are receiving the perks from a pro union administrator, That is the fact no matter how much spin is put out there to the contrary.


yea except for the "fact" that people who would be buying the fuel for their own truck dont belong to unions. the union truck drivers would be employed as drivers for big carriers. they dont give a crap what fuel costs.
i am retired now but i spent 20 years as a trucking fleet owner and i still have friends in the business. they tell me that the fuel surcharge actually more than compensates for fuel cost so they have their best income when fuel is high.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

@ likethat: not so sure about that. The national Ike log
Net rate is 8.8% right now. This time in 2008, when gas prices were first this high, the unemployment rate was at 5.1%. it seems the more people that are out of work, the high the cost of living increases. As a standard the yearly cost of living increase for the average American in 3.5%. This year (as of January), according to the Consumer Price Index Report the cost of living increase for 2011 is between 3.7% and 4%. According to the US Bureau of Labor if an employed American receives any cost of living raise at all this year it will in most cases not exceed 1.7%. The majority of employers aren't giving a cost of living increase this year, leaving it to all of us to make up the 2% difference. That, combined with the sudden increase in gas prices (which were not calculated in the 3.7% to 4% increase in January) actually puts the cost of living increase for the time being at around 5%. What worse, Social Security only gave a 1.6% cost of living increase last year and a cost of living increase has yet to be established for 2011 but everything it pointing to Social Security not receiving any increase. Military personal (who already live in the poverty bracket) probably won't receive a Cost of Living Allowance (COLA) increase this year either. As a police officer I haven't received a more then 1.5% pay increase (other then promotions) in 8 years and as it looks like I will be medically retired here shortly and dependent on my pension for the next few years while I get through graduate school, I'm gunna have to budget myself on a 2002 pay scale. Can't work overtime on retirement.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

...suppose to be "national unemployment rate is at 8.8%%"...iPhone auto correct...sorry


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

I hear you I have been laid off 3 times since 2004. It sucks butt out there. I like the unenjoyment reporting it isn't as true as it should be since you have to be getting unemployment insurance to be counted. Some state only get 12 weeks total. Here in Ohio it is 1 year with some times 2. I know of many friends and family that have been out of work for 3 to 4 years now. I would bet that unemployment is well over 10%. Last I heard Miami had a 30% foreclosure rate. I bet that means there are many many people out of work there.

I still feel that we need to make and dig our own oil. We are going to get run over by the Russian soon again if we don't

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/business/global/08oil.html


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Social Security Disability didnt get a cost of living adjustment last year. Disabled veterans havent gotten an increase since 2008, that year I got $160 more each month than 07. Everything is going up except our compensation, its crap like this that makes me want to not have to buy anything energy related, especially not oil. 

Im one of the lucky ones, I can still walk and get around ok. Oil is the reason so many of us vets are screwed up, but that isnt the reason I am into biofuel. Im into it because I need big projects to keep my mind and hands busy, and because I want to drive my muscle cars. It is really messed up that getting hurt in the desert was a good thing financially, at least at this point. At least I am not unemployed with no means of living. If I were I wouldnt even own a car right now, all of them would have been sold long ago.

The way I see it oil is what is screwing us over, that and the people who control it, produce it, and import it.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Bottom line is, when fuel prices go up, the cost of everything else does, too. I see it at the grocery store. The cost of doing business gets passed to the consumer. Me, I'm just going to consume a lot less. When fuel got to $4.80 a gallon in '08 out here, so many people changed their driving and shoppping habits that gas wasn't selling....the companies had to l ower their prices to a sustainable rate....somewhere around $2.60-$3.20 per gallon. It's happened again.....fuel well over $4. To me, that means I'll use less and buy less. Screw 'em.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Interesting article says if we opened up all the gulf to drilling we would only get gas about 3 cents cheaper by 2030. Of course the oil companies want to because it means increased profits for them, not so much cheaper gas for us. Im going to keep going with my homebrew instead of hoping the 'benevolent' companies will give us $2 gas again.

ThinkProgress Rising Gas Prices Expected To Increase Exxon’s Earnings By More Than 50%


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

Wife and I work together 2.7 mile commute to work and usually take the Civic. Big deal, we operate 5 handicap lift E450 shuttle buses and have a fuel bill of $1400/wk. That hurts. That said, we're selling the V6 Pathfinder that gets nearly the same gas mileage at the Hemi Dodge Ram. I get more use out of the truck. Gas prices are high in the US, because Obama doesn't care how much pain he exerts on the productive class. He wants gas to be high to justify all sorts of "green" gov't spending.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I have a 1988 Toyota 4Runner 4cyl. Best MPG I ever got was 26 mpg. My '05 GTO gets as good as mileage on open road as my 4Runner. Technology has come a long way. 

He told us he wanted European gas prices here well its close now, same with socialized medicine etc, etc, etc.... people thought it was great....... until reality hit.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

We need to get that guy out of office already. I hope to God he doesn't get re-elected. I'm tired of his socialist views and ideas. It's really sad that the he got elected in the first place. 67% of the people that voted for him never voted before in their lives and didn't even take the time to consider the consequences of the "popular" vote rather the what was best for the country. McCain might not have been the best candidate either, but at least he new the US dependency on fossil fuels was too great to try and quite "cold turkey". Besides that, so called "green technology" isn't far enough along to sustain the population. Most people don't know that the batteries in those hybrid vehicles are actually more toxic then emissions put out by a gasoline engine. They can't even be disposed of properly because most recycling centers won't take them. They are bad enough that it was policy at my department that if we came upon an accident involving a hybrid and the batteries were broke open, we had to get everyone away from the vehicle, leave it where it was, not touch it at all, and call out the fire departments hazmat unit. "Green" technology is an amazing idea and I am all for it, but we need to be weened off of fossil fuels and into the technology as it progresses, not thrown into it at a juvenile state. European gas prices???...Europe also has an amazing public transportation system that can take you anywhere. They have the infrastructure to justify those kinds of prices because driving in Europe is more of a luxury then a necessity.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

some of you guys sound like you spend too much time listening to fox news. everything is obamas fault. i wonder if they happened to mention this little gem of information. probably not.


Gas Prices Up Because of LEGAL Speculation; Not Manipulation, 


Goldman Sachs released a note to clients that put a number on the impact speculators were having on the price of crude oil. The report indicated that, at the time, the speculation premium was $27 per barrel of crude oil, which hit $113.46 during early trading that same day.



Gas Prices Up Because of LEGAL Speculation; Not Manipulation, Consumer Advocate Says - Yahoo! Finance


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I closed it. This thread was headed down the political path. I reopened it. Please TRY and keep political views in check or it will be closed permanent. 

I am guilty of injecting political views in it too. It's not always easy to hold back with the way things are going.


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Here are some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon of gasoline: Just a reminder or if you haven't seen this before it's good to know!!

Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold.Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role. A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps. .

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: low, middle, and high. You should be pumping on low mode, there by minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some of the liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money.One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL. The reason for this is the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, every truck that they load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.:cheers...Les


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

GTOcop nailed it right on the head. I've been to Europe. Raising our gas prices won't make us Continental. There's more to it: Europe is small and was built up long before the auto. Europe has excellent trains and public transportation, and its cities are designed around it. You can go through 3 countries in a single day.... like being in New England over here....where you can drive thru 3 or 4 states in a day. Only our country was developed with the automobile, not centuries before it. We have lousy public transportation. We have HUGE states like Texas and California, where you can drive all day long and not cross a border. Apples and oranges. We are NOT Europe. The Hybrid thing too....talk about a carbon footprint!!! We have a prius at work....been a great car for 8 years with no issues. Gets about 43mpg all the time. I've gotten 55mpg babying it at 62mph down the road on one trip I took....bottom line, a LOT on energy went into manufacturing it, and it will be a toxic disaster at dismantling time. How bad is it really to drive a 25mpg car that is already made, long paid for, and not a toxic waste dump on wheels? Well, it's bad for the economy, that's what it's bad for. The economy needs to grow, and to do that, it needs you to buy new "stuff" every time your old stuff gets a little age on it. Well, me, I'm not playing. My newest vehicle is 17 years old, and my newest car, (and the newest car I've ever owned) is my '67 GTO. I know I'm the exception, but "change" is over rated!!!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

VERY well put, Jeff. Like you said, comparing us to Europe is comparing apples to oranges... The Prius is an environmental disaster. The misconception is, if you own a Prius you're actually saving the planet......


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I closed it. This thread was headed down the political path. I reopened it. Please TRY and keep political views in check or it will be closed permanent.
> 
> I am guilty of injecting political views in it too. It's not always easy to hold back with the way things are going.


What did you do, close it temporarily? I don't think I've ever seen that on a forum....:confused

Someone has already started a 'what happened to this thread' thread about this one. http://www.gtoforum.com/f12/gas-thread-closed-32464/
Better let them know it's still open....


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

I like to look for 15 year old cream buffs. I don't mind paying a bit more for a really nice car with low miles versus the same year at ultra cheap and questionable performance. The little old lady car. I bought a 87 CRX Si back in 2001. with 106,xxx on the clock with a bad water pump for $450. I took it home pulled the timing belt out, back flushed the system and found all the peaces to the water pump. Got a new belt and pump at the Zone for around $50. Went home and put it back together all in about 2 hours. That little car gets 33mpg in the city ripping the gears and 40mpg on the high way thru a 1.5l EFI and a 5 speed. That is old technology and is super dependable. It is still very good gas mileage to any hybrid and it has a very small battery. If you look for the HF models from 84 to 93 they get over 50mpg on the highway. It doesn't have to be a hybrid car to get good mileage. Those little CRX's have between a 100 to 125 hp and weigh in at just over 2600lbs. They have good pick up not a little turtle like the old Metro.


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## 85_SS (Jul 26, 2010)

geeteeohguy said:


> ...The Hybrid thing too....talk about a carbon footprint!!! We have a prius at work....been a great car for 8 years with no issues. Gets about 43mpg all the time.


This is what I find funny about hybrids - my '96 Saturn SC1 (newest car I've ever owned) gets the same mileage and is 15 years old without the environmental/maintenance nightmare that the Prius will become by the time it reaches that age. It's not a fluke either - my previous daily driver was a '93 SC1 and it got the same mileage. Heck, the 3cyl Geo Metro would easily get 50mpg and that was nearly two decades ago, same goes for VW diesels. We have a hybrid Escape at work - advertised at 40/41mpg, only gets 24mpg. My carb'd V8 RWD tank of a Monte Carlo can get that if I drive it nicely.

As mentioned, people buy and drive hybrids because they are told it's better foro the environment, but like most things green they do nothing to solve the problem - they just shift it elsewhere. The fact "they" would love to get my old "clunker" Saturn off the road and replace it with a Prius shows how ignorant/uninformed/naive many people can be. How about driving cars as long as possible to reduce waste - the people who claim to be the greenest of the green are also usually the people that replace their vehicle(s) every few years with the typical throw-away mentality.

Nothing says you care for the environment like a trunk full of nickel metal hydride!


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree 85 that we really dont need a new one unless the old one is completely done. What our economy is doing right now, except for gas prices and everything that affects going up as well, is fine with me. Continuous growth means we need to keep buying at an ever increasing rate. All that does is make a few rich and the rest of us in debt.

I rebuild cars that most wouldnt consider a good parts car simply because I can. If it is too far gone for me, then it is really gone. I reuse as much as I possibly can, and I cut as much waste as possible too, even to the point of making fuel from it. I really enjoy knowing my 70 GTO uses less gasoline than the hybrids and the soulless economy cars, sure it burns more fuel, but not as much gas.

Honestly I would like to see us old car guys being able to build high compression engines, make lots of power, and not need gas to run them. That is why I am doing what I am with the 70, to show how easy it is and that it wont hurt a damn thing. If gas gets over $5 here then I bet more people will start asking me about modifying their carb or EFI, then swapping those 72cc heads back on and having fun with their car.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

The 70/80s econoboxes were 50 HP turds that couldn't even merge without the flashers on to let everyone know they weren't up to speed. Now, with technology we want HP out of small motors, and the manufacturers responded with all the high tech high HP 4 cylinders, equating to less mpg. 
They can still build low HP high MPG turds, but American's dont want them yet, but are getting interested as gas prices go up.


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

The oldest hybrind batteries are about 12 years old now. Haven't needed to recycle many......yet. They're about to start breaking down soon. Especially here in NorCal.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

@FNG69, I never heard of those tricks before. I tried it this morning and I was amazed at how it worked. Gas prices have gone up about 8 cents since I filled up two weeks ago, I put about 3 more gallons in then I did last time and my total was still about $4 cheaper. Doesn't seem like a huge difference, but it all adds up. Thanks for the tips bud, I really appreciate it.


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## 85_SS (Jul 26, 2010)

jetstang said:


> The 70/80s econoboxes were 50 HP turds that couldn't even merge without the flashers on to let everyone know they weren't up to speed. Now, with technology we want HP out of small motors, and the manufacturers responded with all the high tech high HP 4 cylinders, equating to less mpg.
> They can still build low HP high MPG turds, but American's dont want them yet, but are getting interested as gas prices go up.


Depends which cars you're talking about. I realize you are referring to the70/80's, but my '96 Saturn only has 100hp and the '93 only had 85hp - I find both to be absolutely fine merging with traffic etc (and this coming from someone who never drove anything but RWD V8's before the Saturns). I've never driven an automatic Saturn and imagine they'd be a bit of a slug, but with a 5-speed, there is nothing to complain about for a daily driver/commuter car.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Small car = Must have stick. For me anyway. The wife just text the 2003 Accord 2 door 4cyl coast $53 to fill up and smokes are to get up to $7 a pack. It even cost more to kill yourself. Puke.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Also a vehicle that has no power doesnt mean it will be easy on gas. If you make more torque in the low RPM range and especially at the cruise RPM, the engine wont work as hard. Working less means less throttle angle, and that means less fuel is burned. If it doesnt have enough power to pull the weight and overcome aerodynamic drag it will work harder and burn more fuel. Like a 305 in a 1 ton dually, its going to be working its ass off just to move the truck, but a 455 in an Astre will do much better despite having a larger engine since it has much less mass and better aero.

Killing the power wont work, making the engine more efficient so it gets more work out of the same amount of fuel will. More work from the same fuel means more power and less waste. Same with RPM, a lower RPM where the engine runs and maximizing torque in that range means less fuel is burned. If your engine doesnt start making power until 4500, it will get much worse mileage than a larger engine that makes a ton of grunt off idle.

Our Pontiacs work good like that, especially 428s and 455s. They can pull more gear and move heavier cars easier. If you gear them in the 2.73 to 3.08 range it will still be quick but will burn much less fuel. Add an over drive so the cruise RPM is about 1700 and you can get good mileage from a 455 even in a GTO with the less than ideal aero. Use a cam that makes power from idle to 5500 with a flat torque curve, like never dropping under 450ftlbs and provided you can stay out of it, you wont burn as much gas. That is how I got a 20mpg average from the 70 with its 455 on a 1500 mile trip. If I had actually tuned on it, rebuilt the Qjet, and locked up the converter it would probably have done better, that and driving through the mountains was too much fun to go easy. Even in overdrive it had plenty of power to pass on hills with 2.93 gears. You cant do that with a 350 sbc, but a 455 does it easy.


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## 400fitz (Jul 7, 2010)

Free delivery....end of an era? Just saw the writing on the wall....literally in my local Chinese restaurant .The sign posted stated"To our valued customers. Due to increasing fuel prices we are unable to offer free delivery anymore.Delivery charge $3.50. Sorry.I also read a sign in local shopping parking lot. Parking for customers only.Violators subject to tow. Tow fee $115. Fuel surcharge $15. Here we go..........


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## Purple Haze (Feb 27, 2011)

I know I'm just a newbie here but......... I would say (of the older GTO's) we've got an investment of 25-50 G's...... we drive them on sunny days and yes, we can afford the gas! We can complain, but I also remember when beer was $2.25 a dozen. I still drink beer and I still put gas in my rides. We can rant, but can't do anything about it.

A wise man once said : "Do not worry about things over which you have no control !"

No stress and it really, really makes life much more simpler !!

I say we take a poll................ How many members drive their cars as a "daily driver" ?? That would be interesting???


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## johni53 (Feb 10, 2010)

Paid $3.96 here in Houston but most places are over $4 for super 93 octane.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Heh 87 octane is $4.17 here. Premium is almost to $4.25


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Prices are climbing here by the hour it seems, High-test is headed to mid 4.30's. I would venture to guess turnpike prices are in the 4.50- 4.60 range. Some places aren't even bothering changing price tags they need a person to sit by the sign to change them out its rising so fast.


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## 400fitz (Jul 7, 2010)

Seen $4.79 today at the marina. Glad I did not but that fishing boat I wanted last season.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

.........and the actual cost of a barrel of oil is $30. Speculators and politics has our cost at $115 per barrel. Like the "oil shortage" of '73, it's all BS. The very rich are getting richer than ever, at the expense of the remaining 98% of the world economy....us. It's a crime.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

geeteeohguy said:


> .........and the actual cost of a barrel of oil is $30. Speculators and politics has our cost at $115 per barrel. Like the "oil shortage" of '73, it's all BS. The very rich are getting richer than ever, at the expense of the remaining 98% of the world economy....us. It's a crime.


Hence the 55gl barrels in my yard.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Gas is 5 cents a gallon in Saudi Arabia, and they are laughing all the way to the bank!! It was 27 cents in 90 when I was there. Heard the 5 cents on the news, but I believe it.
Thumpin, I like what you say about 455 MPG, but my 400 with a 750 Holley got 10 MPg and wasn't fast. I got a 600 Edelbrock on it now with a 350, so maybe I can get 15 w/336 gears.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Of course, it's in the news about the big(if not record) profits for the oil companies.... Imagine that..... We were told by "speculators" months ago that gas was going to hit at least $4/gal. The scary thing is, now they're "speculating" as high as $6..... May not go that high, but $5/gal sure isn't out of the question at the rate we're going.... They have us over a barrel........Pun intended.......


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Ive gotten 19 from a 400, but with a Qjet. I also have a 467 that drinks half a gallon every pass. It depends on the engine and everything else too. I've been toying with the idea of building a 350 to see how it does on mileage, the one in my 74 Formula was lucky to get 10, and it was pathetically slow too, something like a 16.20 in the 1/4. The big problem I have with E85 on a 350 is getting enough compression in it, it will almost definitely need domes.

I have a 400 sitting here, might play around with it when it goes in the 65. It will still be a gas engine until I get the homebrew production up to where the father in law can have a barrel at his house to fill it.

They make record profits and run people into the poor house doing it. I hear the prices dropped in some places, but they are steady here at $4.17 for 87 and $4.22 for diesel.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

40 billing in profit for the first quart this year. That is out of control. At that rate 160 billion this year. Your home is worth 25 to 50% less and these Clowns are fleecing The USA and Europe. That is $2.22 from every person on the planet every month. US population 307,006,550 that is $130.29 per person over the last 3 months. That is over and above there operation cost. There is only 190,625,023 licensed drivers in the USA. So the real number for profit per USA citizen $209.83. Now take into account all the tax shelters that they have and you might puke.

Exxon alone made 10 billion. They don't have 10 billion employees. Exxon Mobile has 83,000 employees. That is $120,481.92 per employee for 3 month total. They could give each Employee a $20,000 bonus and and still have $100,000 per employee in profit. I would love to see what they have for health insurance and how much the employees have to pay.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

likethat said:


> 40 billing in profit for the first quart this year. That is out of control. At that rate 160 billion this year. Your home is worth 25 to 50% less and these Clowns are fleecing The USA and Europe. That is $2.22 from every person on the planet every month. US population 307,006,550 that is $130.29 per person over the last 3 months. That is over and above there operation cost. There is only 190,625,023 licensed drivers in the USA. So the real number for profit per USA citizen $209.83. Now take into account all the tax shelters that they have and you might puke.
> 
> Exxon alone made 10 billion. They don't have 10 billion employees. Exxon Mobile has 83,000 employees. That is $120,481.92 per employee for 3 month total. They could give each Employee a $20,000 bonus and and still have $100,000 per employee in profit. I would love to see what they have for health insurance and how much the employees have to pay.


Getting tired of it yet? To the point you want to do something different? I was there 5 years ago. 2008 sealed it for me, and this year I am ready and able to do something different.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

So I was driving over to the station with E85 about 1130, its 21 miles away. I splash mix half and half in my 98 Gran Prix and it gets the same mileage. While we are driving over there all the stations have $4.17 up. We fill up with $20 of E85 and $27 of 87 octane, and head back. In that small amount of time all the stations raised the price to $4.29 for 87.

We pay more for gas here than they do in California or New York, with a fourth or less the average income, and less than a tenth of the population in the entire UP. E85 was $3.35 so that is a HUGE spread. It will only get bigger here as gas goes up. I need to get some bigger injectors so I dont have to mix gas with it anymore.


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## SWGOAT (Nov 9, 2010)

$4.27 a gallon for 91oct in the Twin Cities. I am seeing about 15.7mpg in my commute to work. As summer nears I will commute to work with my bicycle. I do this every spring and summer when the weather breaks. This leaves room in the budget for mods and "spirited" driving through the St. Croix River Valley. I try to drive the car everyday as I enjoy the performance vehicle driving experience. I am running my car with a Diablosport performance tune and use 91oct or better gas only. Gas prices are out of control, but will not keep me from driving this car daily.


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## johnasaurus (Sep 14, 2009)

Bullhead City, AZ regular $3.59 Premium 91 $3.73 I'm lucky


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## SixTeight (Apr 24, 2011)

johnasaurus said:


> Bullhead City, AZ regular $3.59 Premium 91 $3.73 I'm lucky


Filled my goat up for $3.49 at a Circle K in Tucson this morning...


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

$4.17 for 87 today. Heading to St. Louis around noon tomorrow/ today


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

6.18 for regular in Hawaii.......


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Since the price per barrel dropped $10 today, I'm sure we'll see a drop at the pumps......:rofl:


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## 85_SS (Jul 26, 2010)

Not sure why it popped in my head, but IIRC, when I bought my first Saturn in 2005 gas was about 70c/L. It's now right around $1.40/L. Doubled in six years... insane. It's also almost tripled since I started driving around 15 years ago - I remember when people would scream when gas hit 50c/L!! 

Man, I'm starting to feel old  LOL


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

$4.09 for Premium and just signed up for a couple hundred mile "poker run" car show.. Woo hoo, 10 MPG is going to fun to get some coozies.. Hopefully it will do better than that with the edelbrock, Holley got 10..


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

When I dove out here to St. Louis Tuesday on I70 it was for 87oct:

$4.29 Indiana
$4.19 Illinois
$3.99 Missouri it is $3.89 87oct $4.09 93oct at Costco today


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Filled my Silverado at Hess today, used the 89 octane, $87 from 1/8 tank to Full............it's time for me to run for President.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Filled my truck, Dodge 3/4 ton, with the lowest grade we have, 87, $122 @ $4.06.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

News said a barrel of crude dropped 15%. NO drop of the price of gas at any places around here.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Amazing how that works...it's like property taxes! Oil was up $5 a barrel on Friday. Time to start drilling and keeping (usuin) our domestic oil !


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Eric Animal said:


> Amazing how that works...it's like property taxes! Oil was up $5 a barrel on Friday. *Time to start drilling* and keeping (usuin) our domestic oil !


NO chance of that until this clown is ousted next year.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Drill Baby Drill !!!!


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## Pontiac Z (Feb 24, 2011)

My girl is a daily driver to high school. 350 2bbl and i still have to fill up a 20 gallon tank almost twice a week. wtffffffffffff. $3.96 in fredericksburg. This morning that is. :shutme


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

NEWT:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Eric Animal said:


> NEWT:cheers


+1 :agree


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Eric Animal said:


> Amazing how that works...it's like property taxes! Oil was up $5 a barrel on Friday. Time to start drilling and keeping (usuin) our domestic oil !


The key word there is KEEPING. All of ours goes on the world market, they make more money from that than they do selling it here in the states. If you think they will give us cheap gas again when they drill you are sorely mistaken, and it doesnt matter who is president at that time. Its all about profits, and not any profit for you, but they want the profit from you.

I just made a trip to Nebraska, then to Tennessee, and now am back home in Michigan. That is quite a bit of fuel even at 27-30 mpg. It looks like it will be cheaper to build an engine and transmission, rebuild the brakes, and drive my project cars from Ne to Mi than it will be to drive a truck and trailer down there to pick them up. Unless of course I take a couple 55 gallon drums of homebrew along. Then I can make multiple trips each year.


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