# Nick Williams 102mm throttle body



## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I just bought a N.W. 102mm throttle body, power steering reservoir relocating kit, and silicone reducer (to mate the larger throttle body to my K&N CAI). 2 questions. 1. The guy tried selling me a Vararam 102mm CAI which I don't have $ for right now, already costing around $670 for everything just mentioned. I didn't know Vararam made one... Does anyone know of any other manufacturers that make a CAI for the 102mm throttle bodies? 

2. My tuner at the speed shop told me I'd HAVE to get a tune after I got this thing because the "engine wouldn't run right". I'm thinking about putting it on anyway just to see how it runs. If it throws any alarms/error codes, would it be fixed by swapping back to the original 90mm throttle body and a quick disconnect of the battery to clear the computer alarms or could something more drastic happen to the motor? I'd like to hook it up and just limp it around for awhile and then take it to the shop for a tune (at the re-tune "discount" price of $250, ha ha). Suggestions?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh, you'll need a tune. You're adding 1/2" of diameter to the TB, that equates to a bit more flow. Probably idle will be heavily affected too... hard to say though. Dumb question, but you've got the 102mm LSXr, right?

It'll probably run, but I bet with an auto it'll quit on you a few times before you take it in to get it tuned.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes, the FAST LSXr was installed last spring along with my Texas-Speed ported LS3 heads/cam package.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

Snl makes one. Or just custom make a 4" intake like the hardcore. Make sure to get a 100mm maf unless your s/d. No sense choking it down.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I've never heard of SNL. I'll have to look them up. Hinson Motorsports just sent me an email (Hinson Super Cars) saying that I don't need the power steering reservoir relocating kit and that the stock coupler will work as well so my bill 50 some bucks less then I expected. No, I'm not running speed density. I already have a Granatelli MAF that I bought about a year ago ($300) from Summit, I hadn't thought about having to replace that too.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

dustyminpin said:


> No, I'm not running speed density. I already have a Granatelli MAF that I bought about a year ago ($300) from Summit, I hadn't thought about having to replace that too.


You need the whole thing the same size to prevent restriction. Grannatelli is stock size.

Here's your shopping list

1. 4" filter.
2. 4" piping and couplers for intake. I'd route it like a hardcore so you actually get cold air. iat relocate too if you don't have it yet.
3. 100mm maf.
4. retune. It's a must when going to a larger maf

You already have the 102mm t/b and intake so now you'll bet set.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Any ideas who makes a 100mm maf or where to find one? I'm still having a hard time finding a 102mm cai. Found the SNL website but they say nothing of a cai for goats. The only 102mm cai I've found so far is for the 5th gen camaro.

Ok. cancel the maf. I found a 4" (101.6mm) maf at Texas-Speed's website. However, I'm STILL looking for a cai or piping/filter/coupler if I have to do it myself. The search continues...


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

*update*

I just got ahold of SNL. They make 102mm CAI's for the goat in your choice of blue, black, or red for $400. I chose blue for obvious reasons :cool. I then got on the phone to Texas-Speed and ordered their 4"/101.6mm MAF for $270 something shipped, cheaper then the damn Granatelli I bought a year ago. Now I sit back and await it all to come in and then skip up to the speed shop like a little school girl to have it all installed and tuned. 

Before the flames, yes I know I can install this stuff drunk and blind-folded, but I was told by SNL, T-S, and N-W that this thing wouldn't run without a tune, ESPECIALLY because of the bigger MAF. Thanks a BUNCH 06gtoin216! If you're ever in south Alabama, look me up and I'll buy you a beer :cheers.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

dustyminpin said:


> Any ideas who makes a 100mm maf or where to find one?


Lingenfelter makes one. Lingenfelter 100 MM Mass Air Flow Sensor - MAF - GM Applications - Lingenfelter Performance


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

That's a bad-ass looking MAF. About 50 bucks more then the Texas-Speed one though. I hope mine looks half that good. T-S doesn't have a pic of their MAF online.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Yeah, I like Lingenfelter... I might have them port my stock heads for me.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

*Got throttle body and maf, still waiting on cai*

The Nick Williams 102mm throttle body from Hinson Motorsports and the MAF from Texas-Speed were delivered a couple days ago. Thought the SNL 102mm CAI would've been here by now so I gave them a call to see what the hold up was. They said they had everything ready to go except for the filter itself, which was being held up by S&B Filters for some reason. I finally got an email today that they shipped the filter to the shop and they should be boxing everything up and mailing me the kit on Monday. 

Which sucks, because I won't get it in time to take it to the speed shop to get installed and tuned because their tuner is only there on Wednesdays. So I'll have to wait until the following Tuesday to get everything put on. Oh well. Here's a few pics in the meantime. That throttle body is something else. Just want to put it on the coffee table and leave it there for conversation piece, lol.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, after 3 weeks and 5 days since I ordered the damn thing, the 102mm CAI from SNL is suppose to finally be delivered today (according to Fed-Ex tracker). I'll post a pic or 2 when I get it out of the box and check it out to make sure everything looks alright. I'll be going to XXX Motorsports over in Pensacola, FL next Wednesday to have the stuff put on and retuned on their dyno. 
I'll post pics after the install and hopefully have some good hp gains, not sure what the torque increase is gonna look like though. I read on ls1tech where a guy put on the same combo as mine except he went with an SNL 102mm maf (mine's from Texas-Speed). He put his on a 2000 T.A. with a 383 stroker LS1 and gained 27 hp. I'm not sure if that was just from the throttle body, maf, and cai, or if he included the FAST LSXR intake manifold in there with that gain. Either way, it should be a decent gain.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

*I F'ed up!*

Made a dumb mistake but lucked out in the end. I got my SNL CAI in the mail Friday evening. I opened up the box and started going through everything. I saw all the normal stuff: hoses, tubes, filter, clamps. In the bottom corner of the box was another smaller box that was taped up and had some weight to it. I'm wondering, what in the hell could this be? I open up the box, and to my disgust, I find a 100mm MAF identical to the $260 one I had bought from Texas-Speed...

Now, before the flames, in my defense, SNL in no way shape or form advertises on their website that they make a CAI for the 102mm Nick Williams throttle body in a GTO application. I had found out from a member on here about them and found the website, saw their phone number, then gave them a call. Sure enough, they offered the CAI, on a made to order basis, so would take awhile to get to me, in my choice of blue, red, or black. 

Knowing that the average CAI costs around 300 bucks, with the Svede versions at "formerly" gtogrills.com costing 400 bucks, I didn't bat an eyelash at the $420 price tag of SNL's cai, especially since they are just about the only ones, if not the only ones, that make a 100mm cai for the GTOs. 

I call SNL up and ask them if Texas-Speed makes their MAFs for them. Sure enough, they do, which answers the question I had about why I had two different 100mm MAFS from two different businesses that appeared to the naked eye to be 100% identical. SNL used to make their own MAFs but found out that T-S could do it for them cheaper and since the two are both located in Texas, a deal was struck. SNL was kind enough to buy one of them back from me at a restocking fee if T-S wouldn't take theirs back. 

I called T-S and told them what happened. The guy was kind of surprised that SNL didn't advertise the fact that the $260 MAF came in the $420 kit (thus the kit itself only costing $160... no other cai on the market is that cheap). They agreed to take it back at the standard 20% restocking fee. So I'm out a little over 40 bucks plus the cost of me shipping it back to them, a whole lot better then trying to sell it online and hoping and praying someone would bite. 

Long story short, if you ever plan on getting a 100mm CAI from SNL, just buy the N.W. throttle, SNL provides the rest. :willy:


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## youngGoat (Aug 14, 2010)

would a 100mm CAI work well on a bone stock gto? or is it worthless without head work, exhaust, and intake manifold work?


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

It would be pointless with a stock throttle body. You'd be necking down from 100mm to 90mm or less, depending on if you have an 05-06 or 04. Your stock cam is only going to pull in so much air and your stock heads and exhaust manifolds are only going to flow so much air, so you'd be better off getting a CAI that's designed for the factory outside diameter of whatever throttle body you have. 

The SNL intake is really designed for the Nick Williams 102mm throttle body with FAST 102mm intake manifold. I was suppose to get all this stuff put on and retuned yesterday but the tuner was in Tennessee on a business trip so now I have to wait until he'll be back next Wednesday. Sigh...


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## youngGoat (Aug 14, 2010)

ouch im sorry man atleast the hard part of saving up and buying the parts if over Im looking for that fast 102mm intake but ive only seen it for ls6's will that fit on our gtos? I have a 2006 m6. i plan on buying the 102 manifold, 102 throttle body, and intake soon but youre saying it may not be worth it with out an after market cam and heads? sorry to ask so many questions thanks for youre advice!

edit: never mind found the fast manifold for ls2s


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

If you're gonna get a FAST 102 manifold, then ya, you'd have a h.p. bump. You wouldn't be necking the airflow down. If you had everything stock, and just a 100mm cai, then ya, it'd be kind of pointless. To get what you're considering to its full potential, you need a setter of headers so it can breath out everything you're pulling in. That's just about the first thing any speed shop will tell you or ask you. "You got headers on that thing?" Or, "what kind of headers are we gonna put on for you?"


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I never measured my Svede, but the opening out of the back of the box is larger than my stock TB.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Car goes in tomorrow for install and tune! My tuner isn't looking forward to it, lol. He said those 102mm throttle bodies and 100mm mafs are a bastard to tune (his exact words). He had me call Texas-Speed to get a maf transfer table today to give him something to start with so we didn't have to start from scratch. I had no idea what he was talking about, but called T-S just the same and they went ahead and emailed him whatever he was talking about. Tuner sent me an email back "I got, we're good to go." Sweet...

Gotta be there at 8am and don't get off work till 1130 tonight. Not so sweet... I plan on being there all day long and am gonna bring my laptop and snatch my wifes Verizon usb card to get on here and let all know what's up. May even post a dyno pull or 2. :willy:


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## filmnews (Feb 13, 2011)

How much hp are you expecting to pick up with the setup? Over the 90 stuff I should say.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

The only 2 things I got to go by, are 17 hp gain from a guy with a LS1 on the LS1tech forum with ported 243 heads and the cathedral port FAST 102 manifold, and FAST says up to 36 hp with the LS3-style rectangle port (like mine) on a built engine, using their 102mm Big Mouth cable-driven throttle body. I'm sure I don't quite achieve "built engine" status by the FAST Gods, but I'd guess anywhere in between there.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

*tickled sh!tless over hp and trq gains*

For those who don't want to read the story, end results were increases of 26 rwhp and 20 rwtrq! 481.82 rwhp, 435.08 rwtrq up from 455 rwhp and 415 rwtrq. The tuner and the shop owner were just as excited if not more then I was, because this was the first time they had ran this application on a N.W. 102mm drive by wire throttle body in their shop, and first on a GTO. They did some 102mm traditional cable throttle bodies with 100mm mafs on camaros, but had mixed results with them. Now with the story.

I spent 8 hours at XXX today and finally got my car back. The install went smooth and was straight forward, taking them just under 2 hours and charging me $160 in labor at 80 bucks an hour. I then had to wait 3 agonizing hours for the tuner to get there. When they fired the car up, it sputtered and missed and hickupped and died. It would barely run 5 to 10 seconds and die. It was all they could do to limp it onto the dyno. There was no way in hell I could've put those parts on myself and drove the 40 miles to the dyno shop. 

Texas Speed messed up and sent my tuner the wrong maf starter table. The one they emailed him was for F bodies so the tuner had to just pull numbers out of his ass for a starting point and start from scratch. Before we started he said, hope you don't have to be anywhere, this is gonna take awhile. And it did. It took a little over an hour just limping it along on the dyno doing 1/4 pulls until he got a starter table created. He joked and told me to call T-S and he'd sell them the starter table for the 100mm maf for the gto application for $150. I never called.

While he was creating the table I could tell that he was pissed off. He told me T-S pushes these mafs on the public, saying how great they are, but neglecting to tell you that your car won't run AT ALL unless you have a damn good tuner and you can fry a motor just from creating a starter table. To begin with, the car ran ungodly lean, like 120% lean. He added 40% fuel to see where he was at and did a partial pull and it still ran 100% lean. He said a full pull would've melted an n.a. stock motor. I winced. Frustrated, he asked me, "do you know what you're gonna gain by putting a settup like this on a stock cube motor? Absolutely nothing. These things are for big motors makine 650 or more rwhp pulling in ungodly ammounts of air. They really need to stop pushing these damn things on the public!" I didn't say a word.

Once the table was set he did a full pull before he started tuning for performance to get a baseline. There was a gain of 6 hp before he even did any tinkering to the tune. His attitude did a complete 180. He smiled and said, lets see what I can do with this. His 2nd pull saw a gain of 11. His third pull saw a gain of 17. "Ok, I got it. Let's let her cool down and then let her rip to see what she'll do". He let the car cool down for 30 minutes and then let her eat. Max. hp came at 6500 rpms with SAE smoothing 5, 70 degrees F., 24% humidity, SAE: 0.97. 

The owner said he'd never seen a pull that high on a stock cube, automatic transmission, N.A. GTO before. He told me I had more left on the table if I wanted to get the pistons from T-S that are already flycut so my hollow stem LS3 valves wouldn't crash and I could get a bigger more tradional LSR Comp cam or more then likely another custom grind. I'd need a bigger torque converter then the TCI 2500 I got now, but everything else in the build could handle the extra power. The owner did suggest getting roller tip rocker arms though. We'll see what happens next. For now, happier then a pig in slop and still waiting to come across that first unsuspecting Coyote or 6.4L 392 Hemi Challenger.


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