# Hagerty values for original cars.



## 65Teal (Jun 10, 2020)

This is my '65 GTO, purchased from the nephew of the original owner. It is numbers matching, original except for one repaint in 1976, and regular service items. I have owners manual, protect-to-plate, bill of sale etc., and PHS documentation. The original owner kept meticulous service records and receipts. No rust or damage, mint interior, and 89,000 original miles. I'm trying to figure out a value for insurance purposes, and wondered how it would fit in with Hagerty's 1-4 values. I realize a car is only worth what someone will pay, but would like to have a ballpark idea. Any input would be appreciated.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

I’m not an expert,insurance and selling are two different numbers, but from what I’ve seen and with the PHS intact, ps-pb ,the good maintenance, all numbers matching, and mint interior, good tires & no rust issues I’d say at least $52k-$55k or less depending if auto tranny and the rear end shape


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Is it auto or 4 speed? Maybe you can put up Hagerty's 1-4 values so we don't have to look them up. While it is somewhat original and 89,000 miles...it is not a survivor as it has had a paint. $45,000 is my guess. What's the prize?


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## Jerry H. (Mar 19, 2020)

Looks like an auto tranny and that hurts the value A LOT. You can insure it for whatever you want (Hagerty naturally gets a bigger premium for the higher the value). Paperwork and provenance helps some, but won't overcome the 2 sp.automatic. My guess is 35-40k if you wanted to sell it.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

Rather than guess or get guesses, Have the car appraised. 
This with other proper documents ( ie PHS) should be all that is needed to place either a Stated or Agreed value with Hagerty.
IMO a "Survivor will still only be valued on current market trends it only holds a higher value to a select few and sadly that group is dwindling. 
Talk to Hagerty they are very much on top of the Classic Car market and have/offer several options for us.
Cheers


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

Jerry H. said:


> Looks like an auto tranny and that hurts the value A LOT. You can insure it for whatever you want (Hagerty naturally gets a bigger premium for the higher the value). Paperwork and provenance helps some, but won't overcome the 2 sp.automatic. My guess is 35-40k if you wanted to sell it.





65Teal said:


> This is my '65 GTO, purchased from the nephew of the original owner. It is numbers matching, original except for one repaint in 1976, and regular service items. I have owners manual, protect-to-plate, bill of sale etc., and PHS documentation. The original owner kept meticulous service records and receipts. No rust or damage, mint interior, and 89,000 original miles. I'm trying to figure out a value for insurance purposes, and wondered how it would fit in with Hagerty's 1-4 values. I realize a car is only worth what someone will pay, but would like to have a ballpark idea. Any input would be appreciated.
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Beautiful car! Was power brakes an option in 65? If so, I never knew. But, there's lots I don't know.


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## 65Teal (Jun 10, 2020)

michaelfind said:


> Beautiful car! Was power brakes an option in 65? If so, I never knew. But, there's lots I don't know.


Yes they were, power steering too. This car also has options like tilt, remote mirror, back up lights, trunk light etc. etc.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

65Teal said:


> This is my '65 GTO, purchased from the nephew of the original owner. It is numbers matching, original except for one repaint in 1976, and regular service items. I have owners manual, protect-to-plate, bill of sale etc., and PHS documentation. The original owner kept meticulous service records and receipts. No rust or damage, mint interior, and 89,000 original miles. I'm trying to figure out a value for insurance purposes, and wondered how it would fit in with Hagerty's 1-4 values. I realize a car is only worth what someone will pay, but would like to have a ballpark idea. Any input would be appreciated.
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So how are you feeling about what your hearing? Not sure what you paid for it.


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## 65Teal (Jun 10, 2020)

RMTZ67 said:


> So how are you feeling about what your hearing? Not sure what you paid for it.


I'm feeling pretty good about the car. I have to convert what you guys are saying into CDN $, and my thoughts are similar to yours.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I used AAG to have mine appraised for insurance purposes several years ago. If I remember the cost was somewhere in the $350 range at the time. May be a little more now. They fine tooth comb the car and issue a report. If you go with them be prepared for a very thorough inspection including paint depth to look for hidden body work. If there's any filler, they will find it. Mine came in close to what I thought it would back then. They are a national company. You may be able to find a certified guy local to you for less but I was happy with the service they provided.






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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Shoot. Just noticed you are in Canada. Not sure if I helped at all.


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## maw2078826 (May 1, 2020)

Back in 2015 I had my 1967 GTO appraised by a nationally known appraiser and I was very disappointed with their rating system which runs from 0-No rating, 1-Poor, 2-Fair, 3-Good, 4-Very Good...to 5-Excellent...seems to me there should be a rating of perhaps "Outstanding" between "Very Good" -to- "Excellent"....as "Excellent" in my mind would be indicative of a concours rated car and "Very Good" would be a car below show quality. For example: My Rally II wheels were brand new...yet only rated a 4, The undercarriage was completely disassembled,stripped to bare metal, primed, repainted...yet only rated a 4, All the lights, including reverse & license plate are fully functional...yet only rated a 3...The interior, except for the new carpet, all original, virtually flawless...only rated a 3...The trunk, never a speck of rust, with original Goodyear Wide Oval Spare Tire & original Jack & Wrench...only rated a 3 (which was never looked at by the inspector)...The immaculate engine bay and freshly painted 455 engine which runs flawlessly with only 22K miles...only rated a 4...The disappointment was the inspector could not find one aspect to be categorized as "Excellent". To be fair, I know that considering my GTO is modified with the 455 motor and Tri-Power, it could never be considered "Concours"...However, the inspector could have thrown in a few "Excellent" ratings in a car that I've been told by many is one of the most pristine 1967's they've ever seen...yet to throw salt in the wound he rated my car a 2 (fair) for originality!...Although obviously prejudiced, I feel GTO's in condition such as mine are considerably undervalued by appraisers.


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## EnterOman (Dec 20, 2014)

Is the 4 barrel original? You have a tri-power radiator and fan guard.


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## 65Teal (Jun 10, 2020)

EnterOman said:


> Is the 4 barrel original? You have a tri-power radiator and fan guard.


Yes, the 4bbl is original, as is the rest of the car. I'm new to Pontiacs, but I don't think that my fan guard & rad is specific to a tri-power.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

If you're setting the value for insurance purposes, then don't worry about trying to get a 100% accurate evaluation of worth. Hagerty allows you to specify what the value is and doesn't hassle you about whatever number you pick, at least they didn't with me. Shop around "various places" for ads that list 65's similar to yours for sale and pick a value that would be reasonable to you if, heaven forbid, you ever have to replace the car. Go with that.

Bear


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

I have to get my values raised. I have had mine at $35,000 since completed 10/12 years ago. Since then I have rebuilt the motor, added Ram air manifolds and 3" exhaust, digital gauges, 4 wheel disk brakes and a bluetooth sound system. With todays prices you cant build what I have for less than $60,000. If someone else did it....who knows. So I am gonna raise mine substantially. OK I guess I will go find something else to do.Added enough of my 2 cents to a few posts lol.


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## maw2078826 (May 1, 2020)

I like to look at car values from a numismatist prospective...for example: total Pontiac GTO production from 1964 -to- 1974 was *514,797*...if a coin was produced in such low numbers it would be far more valuable than those produced in the millions. The lowest production model was the 1973 with only 4,806 made...the highest production year was the 1966 with 96,946...regardless, many small towns have a greater number in population. This coupled with the fact GM decided to make Pontiac & Oldsmobile obsolete should be enough in itself to increase values...Like a coin, it would also depend upon the condition of the vehicle. Of course my views are based upon my prejudiced opinion that the Pontiac GTO (especially the 1964 through 1972) are the most beautifully styled cars ever produced....However, as often stated: "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

maw2078826 said:


> I like to look at car values from a numismatist prospective...for example: total Pontiac GTO production from 1964 -to- 1974 was *514,797*...if a coin was produced in such low numbers it would be far more valuable than those produced in the millions. The lowest production model was the 1973 with only 4,806 made...the highest production year was the 1966 with 96,946...regardless, many small towns have a greater number in population. This coupled with the fact GM decided to make Pontiac & Oldsmobile obsolete should be enough in itself to increase values...Like a coin, it would also depend upon the condition of the vehicle. Of course my views are based upon my prejudiced opinion that the Pontiac GTO (especially the 1964 through 1972) are the most beautifully styled cars ever produced....However, as often stated: "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".


Prices are simply generated by supply and demand and the next highest price at which the car is sold - its that simple. If all of a sudden you saw base model GTO's being purchased at 70K, then that would set the price for base GTO's and all above that with specific options and "rarity" would then increase accordingly to what anyone is willing to therefore pay - much of it is fueled by ego and greed. Once the price hits "X" and the bodies are no longer obtainable (like a Willys coipe or '32 Duece), the fiberglass industry will kick in and you will be able to purchase a quality fiberglass body/parts and assemble one the way you choose - just like the hot rodding market. Then, like some muscle cars and hot rods that are really "timeless," they will begin to offer these in steel as they are now and the metal smith's and customizers will be able to do their thing.

When this happens, only the "rare" GTO's will hold their value and possibly go up, but the average GTO price will drop as the availability of a fiberglass or steel knock-off will allow anyone to start with a blank slate and create in any way or form, the car they want and not have to pay a top price for a car that has already been modified when they are only going to modify it anyway, and sink more money into it, or a junky rusted hulk that will put them upside down in rebuilding and still be left with a non-original cobbled together car.


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## maw2078826 (May 1, 2020)

Makes a lot of sense Jim...and you are absolutely correct with many of the muscle cars of the 1960's...take AMES & OPG for example, if you had the money you could practically build an entire GTO from their parts catalogs...this is obvious with the variety of clone GTO's you see for sale nowadays....whereas, with the lesser produced 1980's GM "G Body" muscle cars like my 1987 Olds 442, you are hard pressed to find good quality parts thus the values are slowly rising as the average (non-rare) 1960's/70's appear to be falling...Regardless, when you paid $2,800.00 for a GTO in 1967 that's now worth as much as a brand new Hell Cat...it's well worth holding on to.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I still submit that when the topic is insurance, what your car might be worth on the open market is of zero consequence. All that matters is what it's worth to you, and what it would cost you to either replace it in the event of a total loss, or restore/repair it otherwise. 

That's why companies like Hagerty allow you to set the value yourself instead of forcing you to accept their valuation, as would be the case with "normal" car insurance. 

Bear


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> I still submit that when the topic is insurance, what your car might be worth on the open market is of zero consequence. All that matters is what it's worth to you, and what it would cost you to either replace it in the event of a total loss, or restore/repair it otherwise.
> 
> That's why companies like Hagerty allow you to set the value yourself instead of forcing you to accept their valuation, as would be the case with "normal" car insurance.
> 
> Bear


I have mine insured through my normal car insurance. I did it this way because I didn't want any limitations of use for the car. I have used it to go to work etc. With it being my third car, the yearly premium is pretty low. Knock on wood, I have not needed it yet. They required an appraisal to set the agreed upon value. I was thrilled when it came in pretty close to what I paid for the car since I thought I paid a bit too much but was willing because it was rust free, had all the original panels on it, and was local. 

Depending on limitations, I may switch it over once I get it back on the road. Like others on here, I have way more into it at this point than I could ever sell it for.


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

BearGFR said:


> I still submit that when the topic is insurance, what your car might be worth on the open market is of zero consequence. All that matters is what it's worth to you, and what it would cost you to either replace it in the event of a total loss, or restore/repair it otherwise.
> 
> That's why companies like Hagerty allow you to set the value yourself instead of forcing you to accept their valuation, as would be the case with "normal" car insurance.
> 
> Bear


I agree with Bear. I read a sad story on a different forum for VW buses, but the lesson of the story is true for any "antique" vehicle coverage. The owner had it insured too low. When he had some damage from an accident, the insurance company gave him the full amount of what he set as the value and declared the vehicle a total loss. He was very unhappy with the situation, but the insurance company paid what they agreed to pay, based on what he told them the vehicle was worth. So, don't save a few dollars in a monthly or annual premium when the result may be that you are out thousands of dollars if there is a claim. Choose your value based on what would be a realistic value in case of a total loss.


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## nick rice (Nov 10, 2014)

Just guessing, your car looks like an easy 45k to me. I just switched to Hagerty this year. 66 4sp. orig w/ body off in 06, tri pwr added. Insured for 45k cost 485 per yr. I was with American Modern prior since 2012 and was under insured at 30k value. My premium never changed from 235. per yr but I recieved a notice last June they were ending all classic car insurance so I called Hagerty immediately. Both policies I had/have were for limited driving with 66 plates. I will be shopping around before my policy ends next July. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

nick rice said:


> Just guessing, your car looks like an easy 45k to me. I just switched to Hagerty this year. 66 4sp. orig w/ body off in 06, tri pwr added. Insured for 45k cost 485 per yr. I was with American Modern prior since 2012 and was under insured at 30k value. My premium never changed from 235. per yr but I recieved a notice last June they were ending all classic car insurance so I called Hagerty immediately. Both policies I had/have were for limited driving with 66 plates. I will be shopping around before my policy ends next July.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Interesting... American has just renewed mine Thru Dec 2021, I never got any message about them ending classic coverages,the prem was $325 for $43k, limited driving ‘64 , no deducts, same as always..I went thru Heacock to get it from American ,Maybe it’s my last year with them if this is the case


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## nick rice (Nov 10, 2014)

Jetzster said:


> Interesting... American has just renewed mine Thru Dec 2021, I never got any message about them ending classic coverages,the prem was $325 for $43k, limited driving ‘64 , no deducts, same as always..I went thru Heacock to get it from American ,Maybe it’s my last year with them if this is the case


Ya thats weird. I never made a claim so I have no clue. I thought I was receiving a policy renewal being it was that time then was surprised. I didn't ask why I just called Hagerty for now. When I'm ready to renew again I'll give a call back for the heck of it.

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## maw2078826 (May 1, 2020)

I agree...as stated in a previous post, I had my mint 1967 GTO (owned since 1968) appraised by a nationally known appraisal company...their assessment was that (at best) my GTO was in "Very Good" condition!...Paid good money to be embarrassed with a worth of $40K...went with a nationally known and reputable insurance company that insured it for twice that figure, which was far more realistic...Tried Haggerty once, but I had a speeding ticket (in a different car)...Haggerty asked me...why was I speeding?....and turned me down for insurance...No loss.


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## jsgoatman (Mar 5, 2013)

I totally agree with Bear. As long as you are reasonable, what your Goat is worth to you is what Haggerty generally accepts. If your car is totalled, or stolen, what do you really think it will cost to find another one close to what you had?! Leave some room for mods!!


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

nick rice said:


> Ya thats weird. I never made a claim so I have no clue. I thought I was receiving a policy renewal being it was that time then was surprised. I didn't ask why I just called Hagerty for now. When I'm ready to renew again I'll give a call back for the heck of it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I was also with American modern and if I am not mistaken they transferred me over to a company called Heacock.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Jared said:


> I have mine insured through my normal car insurance. I did it this way because I didn't want any limitations of use for the car.


I've got no limits with Hagerty that I know of.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

RMTZ67 said:


> I was also with American modern and if I am not mistaken they transferred me over to a company called Heacock.


I never talked to anyone at American when I got mine, it was handled totally thru the Heacock agent, but it was actually going to American, according to the policy papers.. 
Possibly that’s the difference going on at American lately, as maybe they can still insure ‘under’ Heacock somehow?

At first , When I went to my reg car AAA agent,
They said they only use Hagarty for any classics,
but AAA-Hagerty was About $150 more than Heacock-American was for basically the same classic car coverage on the GTO,
As I had looked around, and so I used Heacock...Both have good ratings, but I have no doubt experiences can vary some depending on the adjuster you get at the time,
I believe Bear had a good experience with Hagerty in a fire crisis, right Bear?


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Jetzster said:


> I never talked to anyone at American when I got mine, it was handled totally thru the Heacock agent, but it was actually going to American...
> Possibly that’s the difference going on at American lately, as maybe they can still insure ‘under’ Heacock somehow?
> 
> At first , When I went to my reg car AAA agent,
> ...


When I restored a Z28 I had. I was in the tuning stage. While test driving it it died and while trying to restart it I had a carb fire. No air cleaner... so my hood burned. They sent someone locally took pictures and three days later I had a check.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

RMTZ67 said:


> When I restored a Z28 I had. I was in the tuning stage. While test driving it it died and while trying to restart it I had a carb fire. No air cleaner... so my hood burned. They sent someone locally took pictures and three days later I had a check.


Oh man, I feel you. 8 or so years ago I had an engine fire in my GTO that bubbled a couple spots on the hood and pretty much took out everything under the hood that wasn't metal. Hagerty was nothing short of awesome, and that experience is why I'm a customer for life. When the adjuster came out, I'd already eyeballed everything I thought I was going to need and had priced it all through Ames. He approved it all 100%, no questions asked, and told me if I found something additional just to let them know. I had a check in my hands within days.

I'm just now getting around to fixing the spots on the hood, while I'm waiting for some machine work to get done so I can put it all back together and get it back into the car.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> I've got no limits with Hagerty that I know of.


Hey Bear. Are you running antique plates or normal car plates? I don't want to run antique plates on mine because that does put limitations on what I can use the car for. I looked into it several years ago and the guy at the DMV gave me a pretty long list of "do nots" if you know what I mean.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Jared said:


> Hey Bear. Are you running antique plates or normal car plates? I don't want to run antique plates on mine because that does put limitations on what I can use the car for. I looked into it several years ago and the guy at the DMV gave me a pretty long list of "do nots" if you know what I mean.


I run regular plates. Personalized, but no restrictions.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> I run regular plates. Personalized, but no restrictions.


Thanks. Good to know. I'll have to look into this when my policy comes up. Not a huge rush right now since I am off the road until I get the engine back in there in the spring.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Jared said:


> Thanks. Good to know. I'll have to look into this when my policy comes up. Not a huge rush right now since I am off the road until I get the engine back in there in the spring.


I have antique plates here in NM. At $22 for 5 years its a no brainer. No restrictions that I know of but...how would they enforce it?


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## Rlamarche1 (Nov 22, 2016)

I have my 64 insured at $42k through Hagerty for $465 and that includes Hagerty Drivers Club membership and there are no driving limitations.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks all. This has been a very informative thread


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