# broken key



## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

i had the time of my life today. i pulled the key out of my car and was about to leave a jobsite and noticed the key wouldn't turn the lock cylinder. i pull the key out to notice i only have 3/4 inch left of key. upon some thinking, i checked my pocket and found the remained of the key and since i could get a ride for the 20-30 mile trek i decided to try pulled part of the key into the ignition and start it over like that. vrooom! fine drove off and forgot about it. turned the car off and thought "CRAP!" needless to say it didn't unlock. after about 2 minutes of rage i noticed that this car is much easier to steal than one might think. within 3 minutes i had the ignition where i could turn it on and off. my only hang up now is unlocking the steering wheel to move it back home. i;ll give it 20 minutes tomorrow. i'm ready to get rid of my goat. it hasn't been major headache but it's been enough compared to my other 2 old timers.


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Are you saying you can turn the ignition 'on' within 3 minutes *without* the key inserted?


----------



## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

Rukee said:


> Are you saying you can turn the ignition 'on' within 3 minutes *without* the key inserted?


yes you can. learned some stuff today. order a key...115 bucks for just the laser cut piece of metal! lock cylinder has 8 tumblers and i found out that one of mine had gone bad and 2 more were suspect. since my steering column is completely torn apart there's only 2 major functions you need. take the lock cylinder out the ignition and be able to turn the steering wheel, take the white switch off the column and insert a small screwdriver and vroom vroom you're off with a gto. i would take pictures but i don't want to make life easier for crooks than what it already is. i learned that little transponder bit doesn't affect the car at all. the little silver bump on the key fob. i removed the metal ring and was able to crank and run the car without it. scary. anyhow the lock cylinder IS a high security one and unless you're a locksmith of sorts or mechanically inclined then it'll kick you out the 3 minute period. 

looked to replace those parts: key that was broken, lock cylinder that has 3 tumblers missing, the plastic shrouding on the column, and that switch. key = 107 bucks, lock cylinder = 50 bucks, shroud pieces = 91 bucks apiece, switch = 40 bucks. look on my face at the grand total = priceless. 414 bucks. every 6 months this car takes around 500 buck chunks out of my life.:willy:


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I know it's a little late now but here is a link to discounted replacement factory key fobs. 84.00 for an 05' GTO.

http://www.keylessride.com/order/qu...ntiac&remoteyear=2005&model=GTO&frid=271D75BC


----------



## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

It was an interesting read. I do have to say the car theft system is energized and deenergized by the remote. You had to get into your car by unlocking the door with the remote and this deenergize the theft system. This will allow you to start the car.


----------



## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

gm4life said:


> It was an interesting read. I do have to say the car theft system is energized and deenergized by the remote. You had to get into your car by unlocking the door with the remote and this deenergize the theft system. This will allow you to start the car.


i have opened the door once by key manually which it honked like mad until i turned on the ignition. wow. you've got me wanting to experiment. had to put the transponder ring back on. now when i turn the ignition off the radio turns off too! but i can still let the windows up or down. i've created a quirky monster!


----------



## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

koman said:


> i have opened the door once by key manually which it honked like mad until i turned on the ignition. wow. you've got me wanting to experiment. had to put the transponder ring back on. now when i turn the ignition off the radio turns off too! but i can still let the windows up or down. i've created a quirky monster!


The radio part is weird, but when you turn off the ignition you can roll the windows up and down before you open the door right? But I hate the ask this from you, what if you lock the car with the remote, unlock it with the key(the alarm goes off) then try to start the car without the fob attached to the key? It SHOULD not start or stay running from what the service manual says. If it does then you, me, all might have a problem.:willy:


----------



## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

Hi,
When you turn off the ignition, you should be able to roll down the windows until the
door is opened, or for about 10 minutes, and it times out. Also, after you turn the ignition off,
manually turning on the radio, puts you in Accessory Mode for about 20 minutes and it times 
off.
My understanding of the metal ring around around the ignition and the bump on the
fob at the key is for recharging the battery. The theft protection signal is transmitted,
and the fob just has to be near the car to operate???
I read in another forum, if you remove the key from the fob and use it alone to start
the car, it will start and run for a few minutes and cut off. If the fob is near or in the
car, it will start and run normally.

Larry


----------



## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

i may have burnt out the radio function but not sure. i tested the thing with the multimeter, first for volts between the lock cylinder and the ring, my multimeter jumped around and then stopped moving, back to zero. :confused

so then i tested the key for ohms the silver bump to the key. perfect 12 ohms. it's not always that bump touches the ring though. i'm thinking of some ways to wire it up just for a simple toggle switch which would be ool and i wouldn't have to buy that expensive bullcrap to put the column back together. i can just fab something up at work out of aluminum or something. 

my car ran fine for a few days which was about 2-300 miles worth before it decided i needed to get the silver ring back to a better location. at which time i stopped starting. i'll be away from people later today so i will experiment with it some to see if i manually unlock it and am able to start it or not. or if the alarm shuts off once the key is turned or not.:lol:


----------



## Partsguru1 (May 21, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I know it's a little late now but here is a link to discounted replacement factory key fobs. 84.00 for an 05' GTO.
> 
> http://www.keylessride.com/order/qu...ntiac&remoteyear=2005&model=GTO&frid=271D75BC




That key won't do much good, as the description reads that the key isn't cut. Why someone would buy a laser cut key thats uncut is beyond me. 



'Guru


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Partsguru1 said:


> That key won't do much good, as the description reads that the key isn't cut. Why someone would buy a laser cut key thats uncut is beyond me.
> 
> 
> 
> 'Guru


I guess if someone needed a new key with transmitter? I would guess no keys are precut and the dealer would have to have it done or you pay extra for it to come cut once the dealer orders it with the VIN. The description says it needs cut yes. I know if I purchased this key for 84 my dealer would get it cut and programmed. 

You're a parts guy how much would a key like that cost from the dealer? UNCUT and NOT programed. How much would it cost cut and programed?


----------



## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I guess if someone needed a new key with transmitter? I would guess no keys are precut and the dealer would have to have it done or you pay extra for it to come cut once the dealer orders it with the VIN. The description says it needs cut yes. I know if I purchased this key for 84 my dealer would get it cut and programmed.
> 
> You're a parts guy how much would a key like that cost from the dealer? UNCUT and NOT programed. How much would it cost cut and programed?


according to the local locksmith they can cut these keys. i'd check out the local locksmith before i go dealership my next go round. dealership said to me that the 5-7 day wait is because the key is coming from oz. precut.


----------



## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

*nookie (new key)*

so i picked up my new key today the piece of metal that costs 115 bucks. here's what i found out...

the parts man said that there was some special superduper hard process for replacing the key in the black plastic. (skeptical me, says sure right whatever dude) so i got home and tried it out. i got one of those fancy screwdrivers that has 4 sides. you pull one side out and you have a bit for a slotted and phillip. one side has #1 stuff and the other side has # 2 stuff. well after i decided which end i needed to fit the #1 phillipheaded screws on the black plastic fob thingy, i got to turning but o so carefully because those things could have been a left handed thread. didn't want to experience stripping out the screws on this 200 dollar piece of key! (115 for the metal and 85 for the plastic dingdong via gtojudge's website) presto! out comes the metal part. now the hard part, deciding which side the GM logo instead of the P/N 57 goes to. after taking a few minute break and scratching my brains(the ones in my pants) i finally assumed that if i just put it in until the holes lined up i might be ok. so i assumed i got it right and presto the screws went in and i didn't overtighten them although i should have used a fancy torque wrench to make sure i didn't over tighten them. well that was all completed literally in less than 2 minutes, even less time than it took me to type about it!

now to make this post extra long i'll type my other findings...

the key (lasercut) really wasn't laser cut, it was cut using a 1/8 inch end mill it appears on some sort of cnc milling machine. so with that said it took 3 weeks to get this freaking key at 115 bucks a pop when i'm quite well sure the machining center more than likely has some sort of conversational programming that it just asks the VIN number and presto it does all the compensation it needs to make this here key. just think of the profit someone's making! and the finish wasn't even a smooth finish! it was as if the end mill was going dull. 

third finding...

i plugged the key into the ignition without the transponder bullcrap. that was in the middle of the car, the cupholders. actually both were (which may have doubled signal strength). car strart right up at 40,838 miles, i drove around a little bit as this and parked the car at home at 40,868 miles without a hitch. turned the car off and removed the metal key, putit back in and restarted. vroom vroom, who had the key to my goat? started without a hitch. i think the transponder thing is a random thing. sometimes it looks for it and other times it doesn't give a crap if it is there or not. but when it does come a looking it does create a problem. so i'm ready to bust apart the plastic thing and figure out why the battery can't be replaced or it can't be rigged to be replaced. i be darned if i'm going to replace this assembly every 3-5 years or more just cause some money making over zealous manufacturer wants to porkify his pockets even more so. i've supported his habit too long as it is!

anyhow sorry for the long post. i can take some pictures of the key operating the ignition and a picture of the tacho as well if someone wants to see the car running without the transponder BS.:lol:


----------



## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

*Nightmare Dude…*I would like to see some Pics. I would also like to see the battery if possible…

Thanks,
PDQ


----------



## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Wow they got you, $115 for a key, I paid $120 for the key and the fob at the dealer. Also try this, when in the car lock the doors with the fob, try starting the car with the key without the fob attached. The battery is just a regular watch style that is sodered in place.


----------



## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Bad news *Koman*. I just got back inside(I'm board, I'm on leave) disasembled my key from the fob stuck it in the ignition. First thing I noticed that when I turn the ignition to the on postition the Theft light still flashed, turned it to the start position nothing no click nothing. Reasembled the key, started right up. It should work accodring to the service manual. http://www.gtoforum.com/f3/remote-code-key-theft-deterrent-system-17158/


----------

