# Sticky  My '69 GTO Convertible Body-off Restoration Thread



## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Was in the works for awhile but I just acquired my GTO project car last week. I found it for sale in Phoenix, Arizona and trailered it home to San Angelo, TX.
Here's some photos of it I took upon arriving and unloaded:
























As you can see, the engine and transmission are out of the car and dismantled. The interior is all out of the car as well.
















Original matching numbers engine and transmission. The block has had most the machine work done. The heads are done and so is the tranny. I do have a couple of things planned for the drivetrain. I think I will save the transmission and install a beefed up 200-4R. I will use the engine but save the manifold and carb an purchase an Edelbrock ProFlo 4 MPFI system.








It looks excellent from underneath. Hardly any surface rust. Just dirty.
There is some rust in the bottoms of both fenders behind the wheels. I believe those will need patch panels.
One small spot above the p/s tail light and a small spot on d/s rear wheel well lip.
There is a hole in the floor from a leaking heater core. I can make a small patch for that.
I've found evidence of bondo in the middle of panels using a magnet but the rockers don't appear to have any.
It will need some work on panel alignment and gaps too. Hood to fenders, fenders to doors and at the Endura bumper to hood and fenders. I intend to make it all very close to perfect if I can. Doors to quarters and trunk lid look pretty good already. I've read that it is quite a challenge to get an Endura bumper to really fit well on any car. That will be interesting.

Stripping the paint will reveal some things as it always does but at this point I think it is a great car for a restoration. I did buy it sight-unseen but the seller was good abut providing me with a few iterations of sending photos of specific things I wanted to see.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yesterday, my wife made me a box to store the transmission in. Still need to make a lid but she ran out of scrap wood.








Also I thought I'd post a photo of my build sheet. It's a pretty well optioned car.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Yours is in the same condition as when I brought mine home. Parts in boxes.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yup. And I might need some help with figuring out how to assemble the engine since I'm not familiar with Pontiac engines.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Yep, Pontiac engines have their nuances. Not your typical Chevy. 
When the time comes there will be plenty of help here


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## Marv King (Aug 17, 2020)

Looking good, it seems like you are excited about this build. Make sure to keep us posted with the progress.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks! Yes I am very excited about it. 

Yesterday was the first day I actually did a couple of things to the car. I had spent a few days organizing and taking photos of all the parts and then got them all stored away.

First I'll show what I uncovered that was super good. I took the windshield out and was surprised at how good the the underside looked. It's in superb condition.









































Now a little of the not so good. There is some rust. And, I'm detecting a lot of bondo around both rear wheel openings.









































I did a little sanding on that wheel well edge and it's full of bondo. I knew this already after I took a magnet to it the other days. I'll post photos of that later after I uncover some more.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Been working on the GTO a bit every day and took just took some photos of where I'm at now.


















I'll show a few issues to deal with but they are pretty minor.
I don't think I mentioned before that there was one minor hole in the floor in the front p/s corner where it meets the toe board. It was caused by a leaking heater core. I could tell in the seller's photos that it also damaged the body mount bracket attached to the firewall. As I suspected, I think it will be better to replace it than try to repair it. It isn't a big deal to do when the body is off the frame. The hole in the floor isn't a big issue either. I can make patches for that easy.



























I didn't know this until now but will be a pretty easy repair. I will remove the brace to make the repairs then weld it back on.








Looks like someone cut an access hole in the p/s inner fender. I'm guessing it happened when the heater core was replaced. The seller told me it was a prior owner that had it done. Simple fix.








Looks like someone enlarged the slots in the bumper braces with a blow torch. I guess to help in trying adjust the endura bumper?








Anyway, all this work told me even more that I've got a very solid car. Absolutely no evidence of any collision damage.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

When you take the body off can you take note of the body bushings in reference to;
Color/no color of upper/lowers This may be hard to determine
Length of bolt
Type of bushing

Bushings are numbered 1-7, each side, from the firewall to the rear bumper. See the service manual Chapter 0 page 06. Some restorers color the upper bushings but I'm finding out thats not always true especially for the 68-69s and maybe other years where only the lower bushings may have been colored. Inline tube has the correct bushings and they sell the colored ones too.

I'm sure you know to brace the door openings if you remove the doors.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for tips Ed. I'll be checking out Inline Tube for the body mounts.
And yes, I will be bracing across the door jambs and side-to-side. I haven't acquired the steel yet though.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Removed the evaporator box.








Removed the rest of the ragtop (and it was literally in rags) and then removed the frame.


























The rust is only slight surface rust. No metal is even close to being compromised. All the tack strip tabs are fine. I believe the ragtop was factory original. I'll blast this and coat with black epoxy primer from Southern Polyurethanes (SPI).

Removed all the guts out of the driver door. Dirty inside but no rust at all. Undercoating in good shape.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Done today:
I got all the glass and hardware out of the doors and quarters. Removed old exhaust system. Removed doors.
Pretty much down to removing everything at the dash now before acquiring some steel to brace the body with.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Worked on the car some this afternoon.
Got the dash and wiring harness out but have a little more to remove there.
The wiring is pretty brittle and I'm inclined to replace it all with new. The upper ducting to the defrost vents was so brittle that it would just crumple in your hand. Notice all the pieces on the floor.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the bracing done and mocked up the equalizer for lifting. Haven't drilled the holes for the chain attachments yet. 
The red bar is pretty much where I figure the front to back balance point of the body is. The hoist and equalizer are rated at 1,500 lbs. The 12" long eye-bolt goes up into the attic and through a long piece of 2"X6" where it has a big washer and nut on top. The 2"X6" is sitting flat on top of 2"X8" joists on 16" centers. 
I also plan on using a come-a-long to connect between the eyebolt and which ever end of the car is a bit heavier. This will help keep it level from front-to-back and keep the body from spinning. A friend of mine gave me that idea.




























I did remove all the body mount bolts. The 4 front ones were stubborn. The nuts spun but I was able to go through the holes in the front and secure them with vise grips. The other 8 all came out OK.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Really interesting thread. I will be following closely as I plan to go through a similar process in the next few years.

I read somewhere that you can buy ready made non weld braces for a convertible before lifting off the body. Would really be interesting to see if they are similar to the approach that you took.

And updates or is the project on hold?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

aseyc said:


> Really interesting thread. I will be following closely as I plan to go through a similar process in the next few years.
> 
> I read somewhere that you can buy ready made non weld braces for a convertible before lifting off the body. Would really be interesting to see if they are similar to the approach that you took.
> 
> And updates or is the project on hold?


I built mine with $70 worth of 14ga square tubing. Took a couple of days for me to build it though. Had to figure it out as I went but I had a general idea in my head prior.

Since it's turned cold and wet outside, I wasn't ready to lift the body and roll the frame outside. 
So, I spent some time using a paint stripping disc. Just took these photos a little while ago. First the good:




























Generally looks good. About 80% had been stripped before. All the upper parts but not towards the bottom. They used a very aggressive grit by the looks of the scratches.

Now some not so good. Both quarters are going to need the set of 2 patch panels around and behind the wheel openings. The previous repairs were done very, very poorly and will make it a bit harder to fix correctly. There were some patches laid on top of rust holes and welded on. Then bondo was laid on thick to feather it out. The bondo went half way up the quarters and all the way around the wheel openings. Some holes are not patched and were just had bondo stuffed into the holes.
Driver side:





































Passenger side:





































No patch. Just bondo over and in the hole. I've seen a lot of GTOs that rust here. Does anyone know the root cause of rust in this location?










No rust on this side but some kind of damage was repaired there and not done very well. It was built up with bondo. Hopefully I can correct with a little hammer and dolly work but the poor job done on this will make it more difficult.










The rockers appear good:



















Cracks in the factory lead on both sides here. I will have to take the lead out and weld the seams to correct this.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Well its a 52 year old car. I guess the things you are finding are very common.
I restored two cars taking them to bare metal as you are doing. One of them is an 87 TransAm GTA which had the rear fenders behind the wheel all rotten. Thank god that was the only major thing it had but the age is far less that a GTO. I had a very good body shop fabricate them from plain sheet metal. Its not possible to find patch panels easily where I live and he preferred doing them himself from scratch rather than waiting for shipping them from the US.

The other one was a Ford Anglia 105E which my grandfather bought new back in 1963. It was always garage kept and VERY low mileage so it was an exception to the norm. No rust on this. To be honest I was really sorry that I stripped it to bare metal as all it needed was a quick respray.

Make sure you do not leave that metal exposed for a long time or else it will soon start rusting especially in high humidity. I bought a special spirit which seals the metal inhibiting rust for such jobs. Will try to find the bottle and tell you what it was called.

Anyway keep up the good work and keep updating us with your progress!!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks. I will update as I make progress.

It will be much easier for me to use the available patch panels. I probably just cut out the portion I need and not use the entire pieces. It might have made sense for me to make patches if it hadn't been worked on already. That work really kind of ruined the factory crease lines around the wheel openings.

Not too much problem with leaving bare metal exposed for long periods where I live in west Texas. I've done it before with no problem. Plus, before primer I will go over everything with a D/A using 80 grit for the proper preparation for epoxy primer.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

In regards to your question about the lower rear quarters. No rust on mine thank God, but as I'm currently painting the trunk, this area received a lot of my attention.
First of all there's two rubber plugs, a solid one behind the bumper and the front one which  has a flapper valve that will let water drain from inside. I can see if they harden (like mine) they wouldn't be doing a good job of keeping water or dirt out.
Secondly there wasn't much paint in the area. It looked like there was a heavy application of black paint from the factory that was allowed to run down into the bottom. 










Hard to sand down since its all by hand and you can't see what your doing. But this is after my first application of paint. Gotta go back and hit it again.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Those cracks near the top edge of the trunk are on almost every 68-72 A body convertible.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for the photos.
My real confusion and question of cause was the one above the p/s tail light.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I see now. I was reading the photo captions wrong. 
Of the area above the tail light I believe that may be a seam between panels. My passenger side had an open 1/4" crack there that was filled with seam filler. 

Photos show both sides, P/S first.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So condensation on the in the inside drips down in there causing the rust?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Not sure. The seam sealer cracked over the years and opened up or may have been never properly sealed to begin with. I was lucky that the car was stored in a heated barn since 2001 and the climate was hot and dry for most of the year. (Sacramento Valley)


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The weather cleared up today and I got some time this afternoon to go ahead and raise the body. My plan worked perfectly. My guess for mounting the chains for a close front-to-back balance was pretty darn close. The front was only heavier by a little bit. There isn't a whole lot of tension on the come-a-long at all.








































I rolled the frame underneath the canopy for a place to dismantle it. I'll also take a wire wheel to it to get the dirt and undercoating off before I move it out into the yard for blasting.
















I was looking and thinking about buying a rotisserie for the body. It sure would be easier to clean up and work on the underside of the body and be able to roll it outside for any blasting I do on it. Otherwise I guess I'll put it on sawhorses where it is now and work from underneath. I don't know though, this may be the last body-off restoration I do.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Some photos of underneath:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

The wheel well rot looks typical for a "northern" car. I would patch as you are doing rather than splice lower quarter panels which other members have done. The rot in the lower quarters is also typical if the car saw winter salted roads. The trunk rubber seal could also leak and water runs into those pockets. The seal was non-existent on my '68 Lemans.........and so was the trunk floor because of it.

Doing frame off is a lot of work and time. With my '68, the passenger compartment flooring wasn't too bad as it had factory undercoating. So all I did was use a wire brush on a drill to knock off all the loose undercoating and clean up the dirt. Then I used a coat of POR-15, let that dry a couple weeks, and rattle can black to seal it. In my opinion, you can get too wrapped up in trying to get the car "perfect" and then because it is "perfect", you worry about every little detail and really don't want to drive it much for fear of getting it dirty. I say rebuild it and wear the heck out of it and enjoy.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Well Done. Those body braces worked perfectly. Will surely consider this method when I am at that point.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> The wheel well rot looks typical for a "northern" car. I would patch as you are doing rather than splice lower quarter panels which other members have done. The rot in the lower quarters is also typical if the car saw winter salted roads. The trunk rubber seal could also leak and water runs into those pockets. The seal was non-existent on my '68 Lemans.........and so was the trunk floor because of it.
> 
> Doing frame off is a lot of work and time. With my '68, the passenger compartment flooring wasn't too bad as it had factory undercoating. So all I did was use a wire brush on a drill to knock off all the loose undercoating and clean up the dirt. Then I used a coat of POR-15, let that dry a couple weeks, and rattle can black to seal it. In my opinion, you can get too wrapped up in trying to get the car "perfect" and then because it is "perfect", you worry about every little detail and really don't want to drive it much for fear of getting it dirty. I say rebuild it and wear the heck out of it and enjoy.


I know exactly what you mean. Only problem is that I'm a little anal and go overboard sometimes. But if even if I overdo it, I won't be afraid to drive it. I WILL have my fun with it and if I unexpectedly get caught in a rainstorm, so be it.



aseyc said:


> Well Done. Those body braces worked perfectly. Will surely consider this method when I am at that point.


Thanks. Yes they really did the job. Probably stronger than it needs to be. It was a lot of drilling though. Welding might have been quicker but it will be quicker to take it apart this way when that time comes.

I few new photos today. I removed the rusty body mount bracket from the firewall. The heater core must have been leaking a long while before it was detected. I'm glad they reproduce these. It would be a pain to repair it.
























I am thinking at this point that the underside of the body will be fairly easy to clean up with a wire wheel so I'm thinking it might be overkill for me to buy a rotisserie. I raised the body a little more and put my 12 ton jack stands underneath on top of blocks. It's off the floor 35" and I can work on it from a sitting position with it raised that much.
I did leave just a bit of tension on the hoist to act as a safety.
















Removed the wheels:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the frame all torn down and ready to start cleaning up:
























I did find that the frame needs a bit of attention in a couple of places. The body mount location under the rusted bracket will need to get a small patch. Amazing what a leaking heater core can cause.








Also have some rust under the transmission crossmember mounts. It's gone a little thin and I will need to correct that too. Both sides look about the same.








I'll do the patching before I blast the frame.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

great thread! thanks for sharing.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

deanhickey said:


> great thread! thanks for sharing.


Thanks! If you haven't noticed by now, I love to take photos. Photography is been of interest to me since I was a kid.

I've done a couple of things since my last update. 
Yesterday I completely disassembled the rear axle and did some parts organizing. 








This afternoon I started with a wire wheel on the frame and got almost 3/4 done. I'll turn the frame upside down to do the bottom side. This is a good amount of work but is a necessary step before blasting. It has undercoating on it and that has to come off first.


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## dadspackard31 (Dec 2, 2019)

Wow Roger1 you are rocking and rolling right along.
If you keep up this pace you will be driving the GTO by next spring.

Thanks for sharing your progress with us. 👍


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Pictures are great and really appreciated. I have done the same thing with my '68 build, a ton of before, during, after photos so you can see the progress.

I would add that you might want to let us know what some of the equipment is that you use for the job. You wire brushed the frame - I know a hand drill with wire brush attachment wouldn't do the job you have done. Power tools, air tools, wire wheel type, etc.. Knowing what tools to use for the job can make things easier because there are always options, and sometimes they work, but are not as efficient as another person's technique.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Good idea Jim and here's what I used.








This shows an assortment of wire wheels I use. I only used the cup on what I did yesterday. The twisted wire wheels are the only type I've found that will hold up for doing this kind of thing. Also, it's essential to use a face shield, N95 or better face mask, leather gloves and heavy clothing when using these wheels.

I stripped the quarters and filler panel with using the same tool and stripping discs you see here. I used up 2 of them with what I've done so far. I order all my stripping discs, cut-off discs and roloc discs online from a place called Roarke Supply. They carry quality stuff at good prices.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Great pics , Roger , and much hard work underway! Very Impressive! 
This will turn out well I can tell already
Thankz & Keep em coming 🤨


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

dadspackard31 said:


> Wow Roger1 you are rocking and rolling right along.
> If you keep up this pace you will be driving the GTO by next spring.
> Thanks for sharing your progress with us. 👍


Ha! I don't think I get get the car done quite that quick! Seriously, I've been telling people it will be about 2 1/2 years. There will be some times I take a month or so off of working on the car and I hardly ever work full days on it.

Got a little more done today. I got the frame repair done:

First I used a carbide burr to ream out the hole to the edge of the compromised area. I used one of the old rubber mounts to mark the circle.








I then cut a patch from some old sheetmetal the same thickness as the frame:








I used a grinder to get the final fit for the patch and beveled the edge a little. I then tacked it in place and then welded all the way around:
























I then smoothed it out using an 80 grit roloc disc:








I then marked the hole and drilled it out. Drilled it a little smaller than needed and again used the burr to get it precise. Done.








I decided that the rails where the transmission crossmember mounts was not compromised enough to need any repair. It looked worse before I wire brushed the frame.
















While I had the welder out, I repaired the broken stud on the p/s parking light housing. I broke this when I removed it from the front panel and laid it on the welder at the time to remind me to fix it later.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

New Update.
Things done since the last one:

1. Finished using wire wheel the top and sides of the frame, turned the frame over and finished the bottom as well. Ground off factory welding spatter on several places around the frame with a Roloc disc. It is ready for blasting.
2. Finished with the wire wheel on the rear axle. It is ready for blasting as well.
3. Removed the ball joints and bushings on the front control arms and all the bushings on the rear control arms.
4. Wire wheeled and scraped all the under coating off all the control arms. All are ready for blasting.
5. Cleaned up the mess!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> New Update.
> Things done since the last one:
> 
> 1. Finished using wire wheel the top and sides of the frame, turned the frame over and finished the bottom as well. Ground off factory welding spatter on several places around the frame with a Roloc disc. It is ready for blasting.
> ...


Looks good, I know how much work that takes.

Did you plan on adding a rear sway bar? This would take into consideration your lower control arms seeing you will be installing new bushings. You have the option of buying a kit that can be added/welded into the lower control arms for sway bar attachment or purchase new lower boxed control arms already set-up for the sway bar.

I might also consider adding the factory style upper & lower control arm braces - just a little insurance and stiffens up the rear frame a bit by tying the two together. These were installed in 4-speed cars from the factory, but can be a good addition to any frame. Two different lengths so get the ones for your year - 1964-1967 & 1968 - up.









1968-72 GM A-Body Rear Suspension Frame Tie Bars 2pc


1968-72 GM A-Body Rear Suspension Frame Tie Bars 2pc




www.inlinetube.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for the info Jim. I'm definitely interested in things I can do to stiffen the frame. And, this is a good time to make that decision. I'll be checking this out soon.
The seller of my car had purchased a new rear sway bar but never installed it. I was planning on using it. I'll check out the boxed lower arms. Are there any negatives? I've heard before that the factory designed these to flex.

I have decided that I want to buy a GForce transmission crossmember. They are very beefy. That will also help with frame stiffening. Not only is the factory crossmember flimsy, it mounts in rubber at the frame. I'm scratching my head as to why they did that on these cars.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> Thanks for the info Jim. I'm definitely interested in things I can do to stiffen the frame. And, this is a good time to make that decision. I'll be checking this out soon.
> The seller of my car had purchased a new rear sway bar but never installed it. I was planning on using it. I'll check out the boxed lower arms. Are there any negatives? I've heard before that the factory designed these to flex.
> 
> I have decided that I want to buy a GForce transmission crossmember. They are very beefy. That will also help with frame stiffening. Not only is the factory crossmember flimsy, it mounts in rubber at the frame. I'm scratching my head as to why they did that on these cars.


I think the unboxed arms might flex a little, but I don't think you will get much flex out of a boxed lower control arm other than from the rubber bushings. You don't want the rear suspension to be too stiff as it can cause steering issues when you go into hard corners. You can make the suspension too stiff and going with a large diameter rear sway bar can do this as there isn't the weight on the rear of the car as there is in the front to "work" the sway bar. 

The rubber mounts on the crossmember are more than likely to prevent drivetrain vibration & noise from traveling to the frame - it dampens it. Some who use the harder polyurethane bushings/body mounts note that the car's interior can pick up more noise when compared to the factory rubber bushings.

The polyurethane body bushing can also help to stiffen the chassis, as would solid mounts. The complaint is that they can "squeak" due to the material used. I went with the polygraphite body bushings which are said to eliminate that issue as the graphite in the bushings acts as a lubricant if the body/frame flexes. I got mine from PST, but can't remember if I got the hardware from them or sourced it as a kit from someone else.






Polygraphite Body Mount Kit


Polygraphite Body Mount Kit




p-s-t.com




!


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Oh how much I regret installing poly in my 87 GTA. Once the tires start ageing a bit you start feeling every road imperfection vibrating in the dash. And who owns a third gen transam knows what i am talking about when you mention plastics.

Not to mention the squeaking you get where the bush rubs a body part!!

Will surely never do it again as long as I am not building a track car.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Pontiac was late to the game regarding rear sway bars as Delorean didn't believe in them. They were being installed in Olds A bodies and the Chevelle Z16 as early as 65. It wasn't until 1970 that they were installed across the GM high performance A body lineup.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The seller of the car gave me these:








He told me the rear one was bought new and never installed.
The other one is a used fatter than stock front bar. He told me what it came off of but I can't recall what but said it would fit. The stock front bar was still on the car when I got it so I have that too.

He also gave me a bunch of new parts to rebuild the front with. Energy Suspension poly bushings for both A-arms, idler arm, ball joints and tie rod ends which are all GL McQuay Norris brand. I see those are made in Taiwan which makes me leary. I always go with Moog and prefer their Problem Solver line. Not sure if those A-arm bushings would squeak or not. I'm kind of leary of using those too. Also Energy Suspension for sway bar end links and A-arm snubbers. He did not have a center-link and it needs a new one. The one I took out was shot.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I think the unboxed arms might flex a little, but I don't think you will get much flex out of a boxed lower control arm other than from the rubber bushings. You don't want the rear suspension to be too stiff as it can cause steering issues when you go into hard corners. You can make the suspension too stiff and going with a large diameter rear sway bar can do this as there isn't the weight on the rear of the car as there is in the front to "work" the sway bar.
> 
> The rubber mounts on the crossmember are more than likely to prevent drivetrain vibration & noise from traveling to the frame - it dampens it. Some who use the harder polyurethane bushings/body mounts note that the car's interior can pick up more noise when compared to the factory rubber bushings.
> 
> ...


I've never had a car that came with a crossmember where the frame connections were in rubber before. It would seem a good rubber tranny mount would take car of any drive-train vibration. I put one of those G-Force crossmembers on my '83 El Camino SS and found it superb. It did feel like the it stiffened the frame too.

I've heard some warnings about using poly bushings in rear control arms in that they can cause the suspension to bind. Boxed arms would seem like that would add to the problem. But maybe boxed arms with stock type rubber bushings are OK in that regard. I kept rubber in the rear of my El Camino and did not box the arms. I did install a sway bar, air bags inside the springs and used mono-tube shocks. I am so happy with the way that car feels and rides, I was thinking about going the same route with my GTO. But I may consider boxing the lower arms.

Btw, this is my El Camino and was my last project that I finished 2 years ago. I've owned the car over 25 years and this was my second refresh go around with it.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> I've never had a car that came with a crossmember where the frame connections were in rubber before. It would seem a good rubber tranny mount would take car of any drive-train vibration. I put one of those G-Force crossmembers on my '83 El Camino SS and found it superb. It did feel like the it stiffened the frame too.
> 
> I've heard some warnings about using poly bushings in rear control arms in that they can cause the suspension to bind. Boxed arms would seem like that would add to the problem. But maybe boxed arms with stock type rubber bushings are OK in that regard. I kept rubber in the rear of my El Camino and did not box the arms. I did install a sway bar, air bags inside the springs and used mono-tube shocks. I am so happy with the way that car feels and rides, I was thinking about going the same route with my GTO. But I may consider boxing the lower arms.
> 
> Btw, this is my El Camino and was my last project that I finished 2 years ago. I've owned the car over 25 years and this was my second refresh go around with it.



The boxed control arms is not necessarily about making them stiffer. They are boxed so when you install the sway bar and run the bolts through the arms and tighten them, they don't crush.

You could use stock arms and cut a length of tubing to insert in between the open bottom/sides of the arms so when you tighten them, the tube will keep the sides of the control arms from folding in when you tighten the through bolts.

You can buy a kit to box what you already have as well:









RESTOPARTS Manufactured RCAI001 RESTOPARTS® Manufactured Boxed Lower Rear Control Arm Conversion Kits | Summit Racing


Free Shipping - RESTOPARTS® Manufactured Boxed Lower Rear Control Arm Conversion Kits with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Control Arm Upgrade Components at Summit Racing.




www.summitracing.com


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Factory front bar is 1" in diameter for 68-69 GTOs. 1 1/8" was stock for the 70. Thats the limit I would go without modifying the front bar frame mounting holes for the 1 1/4" or larger bars.
7/8" was the stock rear bar diameter for 70-72. 
The front suspension really sucks on the 64-72 A bodies. The best thing you can do is to add some quality tubular upper A arms that will relocate the upper ball joint with adding a 1/2" taller upper ball joint to really improve the suspension geometry. Even adding the tall BJ to stock arms is an improvement . I do feel rubber or Delrin bushings are fine for the street.
The lower arm is known to crack around the ball joint area and needs a thorough inspection.

Center links are available from MOOG and Proforged. The Proforged will be a better fit with the grease fittings in the right places. Moog has moved a lot of production overseas to India and other Asian countries. The construction appears to be the same as before but I was a little wary of their ball joints. I bought mine from UMI.

My rear axle guy wanted to install polys in the upper arm mounting ears of the axle. He has seen a number of rubber bushings begin to crack and fail after 3 or 4 years which he attributes to poor rubber quality. I had him install roto-joints instead which with will allow the axle to float some rather than bind up. I kept the rubber bushings in the upper and lower arms to keep the noise and vibration to a minimum although I haven't made up my mind yet whether to install roto-joints in the axle end of the lowers too.

Last time I looked, AMES still carried Genuine GM rubber pads for the crossmember. I would imagine the rubber quality is better than the aftermarket.






1968-1972 GM A-Body Archives - UMI Performance Inc.







www.umiperformance.com










Lever Family Racing







www.lever-family-racing.com







Roto-Joints












Rear Crossmember Reinforcement Brackets


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for all of the advice. I will continue to process and figure out what I want to do. Just measured the sway bars I've got. My stock front bar was indeed a 1". The used front bar I got from the seller is 1 1/4". The new rear bar I got from him is 1".

I'm not looking for extreme performance but maybe some improvement and a good ride. I won't drive this car that hard. Mostly cruising and some highway travelling. 
For that reason, I think I'll stay with the stock A-arms in the front. I did some research on these Energy Suspension A-arm bushings I have and they say if you use their grease with them, they won't squeak. Also did some research on the McQuay Norris parts I have and it appears they are good quality. My inclination now is to use all these parts. Only thing I need to buy is a center link. 

My inclination right now on the rear is to go ahead and get that boxing kit to box the lower arms and use rubber bushings on both uppers and lowers. I will want to get the best quality there is for those. I also think the control arm braces are something I will do.

Pretty certain I want to get the GForce transmission crossmember. I don't like the idea of the rubber mounts for the stock one at all. I think this adds a very large amount of stiffness to the frame. I am thinking that I will stay with rubber body mounts but again will want to get the best quality out there for them.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

If you're going to use the 1 1/4" bar I highly recommend that you modify the mounting brackets to frame mounting holes. The threaded frame holes are very thin and only have a few threads to hold the bracket bolts. The bigger bar places more stress on these threads with the end result of having the mounting bolt fall out. Had this problem with my 70 SS El Camino.
The fix is to have a 1/4" flat stock pre-drilled and threaded to match your mounting bracket bolt spacing. Insert the bar into the frame from the front. Hold in place with the mounting bolts. 
You will also find that the mounting brackets for the bigger bar are of course bigger to fit the larger bushing and may or may not match up to the frame holes. The 1" bar brackets will not fit the 1 1/4" bushings. The aftermarket brackets are slotted and do not have this problem.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Appreciate that advice. I may start out using the stock bar and decide if I think it's OK or not before going any further. 

An update today:
While cleaning up my shop and organizing parts today, I decided to remove the axle bearings from the axles that I had on the floor. It was the last thing I hadn't dismantled.

Not good news. At some point in the past life of this car, the d/s axle bearing had seized and it scored the axle. The bearing was replaced anyway. Once I split and removed the retaining ring, the bearing was loose on the axle. It also appears to me that this got very hot when that bearing failed.
You can see the smaller diameter on the axle where the bearing sits. Strange looking pits too:
















Pretty sure that even though the bearing hadn't failed on the p/s axle, the owner at the time decided to replace that bearing too. It was an identical part. The mechanic didn't do a great job as you can see the mark he made right in front of where the seal rides:









This axle is Ok to use though. But I can't in good conscience
use the other that had the seized bearing. I'd appreciate some advice here.
Look for a used original or buy a new aftermarket axle? Or replace both with new aftermarket axles? In all the cars I've had I've never had to replace an axle before so this is new territory for me.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Tom's Kick Ass Axles is where I bought my axles from for my Elco. It's axles looked like yours. 
American made and very good quality. 
I bought new studs too. 









Toms Differentials


Axles ring and Pinions kits, bearings+seals Differentials U Joints, yokes, pads tom's custom parts merchandise Are you a Jobber or Distributor? signup for discounts and SAVE $$$ Tom’s Differentials…




tomsdifferentials.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

That's where I've always bought my rear end parts. Unfortunately Tom passed away a year or two ago. Before he passed, he tried to sell the business but there were no takers so he just liquidated the inventory.

Edit:
The web address you provided is working. Maybe someone did buy the business. But the catalog does say 2017.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I heard the family has continued the business. The website is new since I last visited a few months ago and it is dated 2020 for what's its worth.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I just ordered a set of the Yukon axles that are 1541H Alloy. 
Now I'm trying deciding on where to buy the rest of the parts I need for the rear.

I'm now thinking about going with 3.55 gears instead of using the stock 3.23. I think it will be a little bit better of a match with what my plans are.
I've already have a new Lunati 60902 cam and lifters that the seller gave me. I like the specs on this cam. SPECS
My tire diameter should be 27.5" and I'm planning on a 200-4R automatic and an Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 mpfi setup. 
I calculate that a 3.55 rear would yield just a touch over 2,000 rpm at 70 mph. The 2.74 first gear would also give a 9.73 torque multiplication which I think would be good using a normal converter rather than a high stall. 

I am also going to order an Auburn Gear posi carrier for it. I've had good luck with them. I'm also going try and find new Timken bearings for the pinion, carrier and axle bearings.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Do you plan on lowering engine compression? That cam would be better for a 9.0 compression engine. I would not use it in a stock compression 400. The 112 LSA may build more cylinder pressure and thus suited better for a low compression.

3.55's would be a good choice. I assume the torque converter has some slip or is it lock-up? I am not familiar enough with these. If it has a little slip, then you'll be hitting 70 MPH a little over 2,000, maybe 2,200 RPM's which should be good.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yes. The seller also provided me with new pistons and told me he figured about 9.0. He's an experienced mechanic and I didn't doubt him on it. 
The pistons are 40 over and block has been bored but not final honed. The seller also gave me new piston rings ready to put on. The heads have all been redone and were not milled. The block was not decked.

















Here's a link to the piston specs:
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons KB346-040

The rings are Mahle 11D04CD1


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Hoping to hear from you Jim. I'd appreciate your comments on the info in my last post.

New updates:

So as I said, I have new Yukon axles on order. I have already received the Auburn Gear posi unit. Everything else for the rear should come in early next week. I ordered a complete differential kit by Standard Gear which includes seals, gasket and Timken bearings for the carrier and pinion. Also on order are a Dana 3.55 ring and pinion gear set and Timken axle bearings and seals. 
I called the guy I've used a few times in the past to set up my new gears and that's a no-go. He's 81 and not doing these anymore. I'll have to find somebody new. Got a few leads. 

I did visit the guy that's done upholstery for me in the past and he agreed he would do the seats for the car and the convertible top down the road when I'm ready for that. He said call him after the first of the year and he should be ready for me to drop off the seats.

I got all set up to be ready to start blasting the frame. It might not be tomorrow as there is a 20-30% chance of rain. If it rains, I've got another tarp to keep the frame from getting wet. I'll also need to keep an eye on the weather to make sure it's a good temperature to be spraying epoxy primer. Once I get the frame blasted, I don't want it to sit for very long before spraying. It needs to be above 60 to spray SPI epoxy and I'll need to have it sprayed early enough in the day so it's dry enough to move into the shop. Can't let it get below 60 for the first 48 hours after it's sprayed. Right now the forecast from Saturday going forward looks really good to be able to get it done.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

At about 10:30 AM I decided it looked like it wasn't going to rain today. So I got started with blasting the frame. My wife got a couple of photos of me in action:
















Late in the day my neighbor stopped by again. He said he could tell by how much my compressor was running that I must be blasting today. And again, great timing I just completed getting it 3/4 completed and needed help to turn the frame over. 
So I'll be ready to get the frame blasting complete tomorrow. 
























Just for an fyi, I used up about 2 - 50 lb bags of blasting media to do what I did today. I used the coal slag called Black Diamond that Tractor Supply has for $9 a bag. I also reclaimed what I could sweep up from the concrete twice.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> At about 10:30 AM I decided it looked like it wasn't going to rain today. So I got started with blasting the frame. My wife got a couple of photos of me in action:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Saw your post over at PY and the answers you got on the engine parts. The D-dish pistons are fine as I recall they were 14CC's which is used to lower compression based on the heads you are using, the #16's which are said to be 72 CC's, but could be more or less a few cc's due to the valve job and valve choice. The only way to know with 100% accuracy would be to CC the heads yourself or let a shop do it. I have a post that describes how to CC your own heads for cheap. Then you will know exactly what you have and can use that number to better achieve an accurate compression number using the Wallace Compression Calculator.

If you KB pistons are similar to mine in deck height, my pistons were .020" down in the hole - which you can use in the Wallace Calculator. The thing you want to do is get a good quench number of .040" between the flat piston top area of that D-dish and the flat area of the head that surrounds the combustion chamber. Knowing what the pistons are down in the hole, which can be measured once the pistons are installed and you get one of them up to TDC, you can then decide what head gasket thickness you might want to go with to get that quench nearest to 040". From my reading, anything under .060" is acceptable, but not optimum, with .040" your best number. Some will go tighter, but that makes me nervous as parts get worn. I have my pistons set at a .047" quench which I am fine with.

One guy mentioned he did not like your lifters. The lifters, depending on manufacturer, have different C-clips that hold the guts together and inside the lifter body. The factory lifters use a simple wire style C-clip. The better hi-performance lifters will use a snap ring style clip. I have included a photo that shows you. The lifter on the left has the wire type and the lifter on the right has the snap ring type. It is said that if you like to rev your engine high, that the wire type clips can pop out whereas the snap ring type will hang in there and stay in place.

The roller tipped rockers should be fine. I have a set going on my 455 build. However, over on PY the complaint seems to be that the rocker ball does not seat/fit well in the rocker arm cup. I have not examined mine to confirm or deny that statement, but will take a look at mine. I think I might paint the rocker ball and rocker cup using a black Sharpie, then insert the rocker ball and move it about and see what kind of wear pattern I see. If I see a bad pattern where the two are not meshing well, then the PY guys may be correct and I may not use them. Sometimes problems do arise and it could have been an early batch when they were first introduced - I don't know. Many use them, so how bad can they be off? I did use the Comp Cams 1.5 stamped rockers on my previous 400CI build and these are stronger than factory and have a more accurate/consistent 1.5 ratio that the factory rockers did not. They also have the grooved rocker arm balls which I prefer over the factory smooth surfaced rocker arm balls. So I would not hesitate to use these should the roller tip rockers not meet my expectations.

You will most likely be able to use the factory length pushrods, but always a good idea to check your rocker arm geometry to make sure the rocker arm is hitting the center of the valve stem tip and not off center too far back or forward.

The frame looks good. I too used the Black Beauty and did my best to recover what I could using the tarp method you are using and then sifting the sand and re-using it. I seems to me that it cuts better first time around and after a second use, time to just not re-use it and toss it. I have the same set-up, but after using the pressurized tank for some time, tips will of course wear out, the hose cracked and split, the sand flow valve wore out, and any kind of moisture that gets into the tank with the sand will clog it up - and then the fight is on. LOL I have capped off the air supply that pressurizes the tank at the top and just use the blaster in a conventional manner as you would one of the inexpensive open canister type sand blasters. I still tighten the top cap which seems to take on some pressurization which makes the sand then flow and I can blast my part.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for the info Jim. I'll respond to you later regarding it.

Finished blasting.
Total blasting time including reloading the blaster was about 8 - 9 hours. Consumed 2 1/2 bags of Black Diamond media. I never discard media. What I do is add about 25% new to what I reclaim. Been doing it that way ever since I started using this blaster and it's always seemed to work well. These blasters are finicky but once you get a procedure down that works for you, they work really well. It sure can be frustrating at first and patience is required. 
I don't know if it will be warm enough tomorrow to spray the epoxy primer. If the temperature of the frame gets up to 65 degrees early enough in the day, I might be able to do it.
Almost looks like it's painted gray when in the sun but it's just blasted steel:
















Headed out now to clean up the mess and reclaim the media.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I decided to move the body out of the shop and the frame in to paint it. The nights are just too cold to leave the frame outside overnight for the SPI epoxy. 
I used a body cart my neighbor built for me when I restored my '57 pickup. I had to adapt it to fit the GTO. It worked fine but I didn't get it balanced as good as I would have liked so I put the body on jackstands and make some more adjustments on the cart:








I spray 2 heavy coats of SPI epoxy primer and the first coat I do in gray. That makes it easier for me to see the coverage better when I do the 2nd coat in black. SPI recommends 3 coats if you are doing it in one color. This will be the 3rd frame I've done in this manner.

First coat:








The ropes on the rear don't have but a couple of pounds on them but are needed to keep the frame level and steady. The middle body mount holes in the wide part of the frame rails made it almost a perfect front-to-back balance. Just a few pounds heavier on the rear.

A coat of black and all done:
















SPI epoxy will lose a little of it's shine as it cures. Goes to a nice semi-gloss look. I'll let it cure for 48 hours and then move it into the main room of my shop and then roll the body back in this room.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A few things done since my last update.

I moved the frame into the main area of my shop. This is where it will stay while I get it all built back up. I also modified my body cart and rolled the body back into the work room and back on the hoist.








I received all the new parts I ordered. The rear end is ready to be assembled. Just have to find a new guy to do it for me. I've put out a couple of feelers but haven't heard back yet.








I pressed on the new axle bearings onto my new axles. The bearings are Timken but I see they are now made in China. I hope Timken assures good quality control on them. 








In the background of the above photos, that is the ready-to-go crankshaft packed securely along with the new KYB shocks I just received.

Today, I started on the p/s quarter wheel opening rust issues. I got about half of the undercoating off in the wheelhouse also. It's pretty thick in there.

I cut away some of the bad area of the quarter to expose the outer wheelhouse. A lot of the outer wheelhouse in the edge area is rusted completely away. I think it will be too difficult to reconstruct that when I can buy one and cut what I need out of it for a graft.








Front area:








You can see there is some rust damage on the inner wheelhouse as well but that can be repaired.

Rear area:
























So as you can see, there's substantial rust damage to the outer wheelhouse and a pretty good amount of rust damage to the inner wheelhouse too. But I think I can reconstruct the inner wheelhouse damage. It will take some time though.

I'm pretty sure it's going to be a similar situation on the other side too and I'll need to buy an outer wheelhouse panel also.

I'll be making an order for all 4 quarter panel patch panels, outer wheelhouses, 2 fender patch panels and the p/s firewall body mount bracket from Ames fairly soon.

Btw, during previous body work to the holes behind the wheel openings, the body man covered the rust holes with masking tape and that was used as a backup for covering with bondo. I wonder what school taught him that?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A few things done in the last couple of days. 
I removed all the undercoating from both rear wheelhouses. Very messy.
I also made the same metal cuts on the p/s wheel well as I had done on the d/s. Rust was pretty much a carbon copy but was a little worse in the area behind the wheel and I cut it all the way back to the rear edge. 








I decided to cut it back further on the d/s too even though it wasn't as bad and removed all the rusted metal back to good welding edges on both sides in the rear part.








I also stripped the paint and bondo off of both fenders. Removed some undercoating too. Both have the rusted areas with patches on top and had bondo thick as heck to blend it all in. 
Both fenders also had dents that had holes drilled into them and covered with about 3 times as much bondo as they should have taken.

The right fender's dent is above the patch:








Left fender dent:








So I will weld up the holes and remove the dents with a hammer and dolly. Not a big deal.

Closeups of the patches: 
A little brazing was tried on them as well as the spot welds. 
















At some point in the past my car was undercoated by Ziebart. They drilled 4 holes in the door jambs on each side, squirted in the undercoating and put these plastic plugs into the holes afterwards.








I welded all the holes up today. Here's the d/s:
















I now have the 6 patch panels on order. 2 for the fenders and 2 each for the rear wheel wells. Also the both the rear outer wheelhouses and the p/s firewall motor mount brace. I actually had to order a pair of braces as I couldn't find them individually. So I guess I'll sell the d/s one on ebay.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

After further thought, I've decided my overhead setup for hoisting the body is safe for me to get under. I just can't imagine it failing anywhere. Plus, it sure is handy to use the equalizer to tilt it for working underneath.








I finished using the wire wheel on the under side of the floor, outer firewall and cowls and I'd say I've got 99% percent of the undercoating off. I worked on it yesterday afternoon and started mid morning today and finished late afternoon.
A lot of work and glad it's done. Like I did the frame, this will make it blast quicker and easier and not contaminate my spent media so I can reclaim and reuse.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Update:

After removing the undercoating and dirt from underneath the floor, I noticed another spot of damage caused by the leaking heater core. 
This was just a rusty crust but not a hole until I poked all the crust away.








2 layers of steel overlap in this area and connect to the rocker flange. Both layers were rusted away but the rocker flange was fine.
I cut it back to good metal and squared it up for replacing the layers with 2 patches. I also cut the hole in the floor back to good metal








Here's the first layer patch:








Smoothed out and holes drilled for plug welds through the patch and rocker flange:








Second layer patch tacked in place:








Second patch smoothed off:








Plug welds smoothed off on the rocker flange:








I had to make 3 different patches to fix the hole where the floor meets the firewall. First one was to replace the small section of flange that was missing:
















I did the rest with one small patch and one large one:
























This was more of a challenge than I thought it would be but I'm happy with how it came out. Amazing how much damage can be done from a leaking heater core. It must have been leaking and gone unnoticed for quite a while.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Today, I finished repairing a couple of other floor issues.
Had some swiss cheese here that needed addressing:








I cut it all out and welded in a patch.
























And this area:
























Both repairs from underneath:
















That is all the patching the floor will require. However, I am going to zap a little weld into several of the rust pockmarks that are left. I've done a few already.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Are you using a "tack weld" approach versus a steady bead of welding? Great work.

I also want to mention that not everyone has a welder or the skills, and with the floors being fairly solid with just those "swiss cheese" holed sections, you could repair those with a layer or two of fiberglass matt because they are not in an area that I would be concerned about structurally.

I myself have a couple areas like that on my floor and it is from the inside out, not from the underside up - probably wet/damp carpets from a water leak of some sort. I am myself thinking of just going with the fiberglass matt to make it easier on me rather than cut, form the patch, weld, grind, prep & paint. However, the car won't ever be sold, so I don't need it perfect for the next buyer.

So possible options are to sandblast the area to get it clean & roughed up and 1.) put my layer of fiberglass resin/fiberglass matt directly over the bare steel and sand/prep/seal, or 2.) POR-15 the fiberglass matt and apply/seal - which I am liking better. You read from the POR-15 website about their products or read this post below:









Some lessons learned with POR15 for rust repair.


I just finished up my floorpans, which were nice and rusty thanks to a long sit in the humid northwest. I thought I'd write up my experiences using POR15 and fiberglass to fix and seal up the pans, because maybe someone can benefit from the experience I've had. Overall, I'm really happy with the...




www.swedespeed.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Are you using a "tack weld" approach versus a steady bead of welding? Great work.
> 
> I also want to mention that not everyone has a welder or the skills, and with the floors being fairly solid with just those "swiss cheese" holed sections, you could repair those with a layer or two of fiberglass matt because they are not in an area that I would be concerned about structurally.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jim and yes I do use a tack approach. It's the only way to do sheetmetal with a mig without blowing through.

I'm not a fan of POR-15 for anything on a car since I believe using epoxy primer makes more sense. I use SPI. It's great stuff. Epoxy adheres better to clean and properly prepped steel than any other product does. 

I don't recommend using fiberglass matting for metal repairs either but I do have a suggestion for you for a non-welding approach to your swiss cheese area. Blast the area on the top that has the pockmarks and sand the metal underneath with 80 grit. Clean and coat both sides with epoxy primer. The next day apply an epoxy filler paste over the top of the area. If there are any holes, cover from underneath with masking tape. 3M makes some 2 part epoxy fillers or you could even use JB Weld.

I could have easily used this approach for what I showed today. But not what I did up at the firewall and directly under. That repair required welding since it is all structural there.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the first rear wheel well patch done. This is the front of the passenger side. I decided there wasn't a reason to not make the patch span where the outer and inner wheelhouses come together.
















Did a poking on this rusted place on the inner wheelhouse. It's rusted like this on the driver side too but not as bad as this side. I'll tackle this next. Not sure why these areas are prone to rust.








I received the body mount frame bracket today and started messing with it. I had to do some modifications to the radius on the left at both the top and bottom as well as some re-shaping the bottom left flange to get it to fit right. If mounted as it was out of the box, the body mount points would have been almost a half inch too low. Glad I kept the original bracket for me to be able to check this. What a mess up that would have been to not have that be correct.
This part was made by Dynacorn. 








This is just mocked up right now. I had to cut a little of the edge flange in order to change the radius areas and I will need to take it back off to weld it up before mounting the bracket permanently.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

roger1 said:


> Thanks for the photos.
> My real confusion and question of cause was the one above the p/s tail light.


MY 69 hardtop had the same problem and just on the passenger side. That was also the side where it had the 'traditional' problem of rusting through at the lower corner of the rear glass, leaking down, and taking out the lower edge of the quarter and part of the wheel house. I ended up replacing that full quarter panel (man what a job!). My working theory is that once it starts leaking around the back glass, some of the water manages to cling to the slope of the inside of the quarter and follow it all the way down to that area above the taillight. 

I don't know how else water could get in there, unless it leaks in from the deck lid channel at that spot, possibly because of an opening in a seam there.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

roger1 said:


> Thanks for the info Jim. I'm definitely interested in things I can do to stiffen the frame. And, this is a good time to make that decision. I'll be checking this out soon.
> The seller of my car had purchased a new rear sway bar but never installed it. I was planning on using it. I'll check out the boxed lower arms. Are there any negatives? I've heard before that the factory designed these to flex.


Indeed. If you take a good look at how the upper and lower rear control arms attach, and visualize how they have to move in cases where there's some body roll, like in cornering, you'll realize that the only ways that that body can 'roll' is via some combination of:


the bushings have to allow the arms to 'twist' in their mounts
the arms themselves have to twist
something has to bend/break

Using hard urethane bushings in factory arms only imparts more of that twisting force into the control arms, which I personally don't think is a good idea.

On my '69, I used aftermarket (Spohn Engineering) upper and lower adjustable chrome-moly control arms with spherical rod ends. That lets the arms twist like they must during body roll without stressing them. I'm also running the Spohn rear sway bar that employs links that mount to the rear crossmember instead of to the control arms, plus UMI control arm mount point stiffeners that are the equivalent of the factory ones Jim mentioned. I really like Spohn stuff.






































Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

roger1 said:


> Yes. The seller also provided me with new pistons and told me he figured about 9.0. He's an experienced mechanic and I didn't doubt him on it.
> The pistons are 40 over and block has been bored but not final honed. The seller also gave me new piston rings ready to put on. The heads have all been redone and were not milled. The block was not decked.


If it's not "too late", please consider replacing the factory rods with a good set of aftermarket forged ones such as Eagle H-beams if you ever plan on engaging in "spirited driving". Whenever something untoward happens in a Pontiac engine, more often than not it's the rods that go first. Consider it relatively cheap insurance, especially if that's the original block. Do you know if those factory rods have already been reconditioned/resized? If not, then by the time you pay to have that done you'll spend almost as much as a set of Eagles would cost, and you'll still only have factory rods.

Also, there's one of the Engine Masters dyno tests (Season 2, Episode 29 -- still available if you have a Motor Trend channel subscription. It used to be available on youtube but it's not any more, darn it) where they ran a back to back to back test on factory stamped steel rockers vs. roller tip rockers vs. full roller rockers. The results might be a little surprising. The roller tip only rockers actually lost power compared to the factory stamped steel rockers. They attributed that to the fact that they had to use smaller diameter studs for the roller tip rockers because no one made them for the larger studs, and they theorized that allowed more flex. Not surprisingly, the full rollers made the best power.

Bear


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Fantastic craftsmanship on your metal work


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

integrity6987 said:


> Fantastic craftsmanship on your metal work


Thanks!


BearGFR said:


> If it's not "too late", please consider replacing the factory rods with a good set of aftermarket forged ones such as Eagle H-beams if you ever plan on engaging in "spirited driving". Whenever something untoward happens in a Pontiac engine, more often than not it's the rods that go first. Consider it relatively cheap insurance, especially if that's the original block. Do you know if those factory rods have already been reconditioned/resized? If not, then by the time you pay to have that done you'll spend almost as much as a set of Eagles would cost, and you'll still only have factory rods.
> Also, there's one of the Engine Masters dyno tests (Season 2, Episode 29 -- still available if you have a Motor Trend channel subscription. It used to be available on youtube but it's not any more, darn it) where they ran a back to back to back test on factory stamped steel rockers vs. roller tip rockers vs. full roller rockers. The results might be a little surprising. The roller tip only rockers actually lost power compared to the factory stamped steel rockers. They attributed that to the fact that they had to use smaller diameter studs for the roller tip rockers because no one made them for the larger studs, and they theorized that allowed more flex. Not surprisingly, the full rollers made the best power.
> Bear


Bear, thanks for your advice on suspensions and engine. 
I've thought about what you've said and kind of mulled it over for awhile but I don't think I'm going to drive my car hard enough to do these upgrades you've described here. I'll never race it and won't even ever do a smokey burnout. I just want it to be responsive and sound good. A good cruiser and a good highway car. So I think I'll be plenty happy with the engine components I got from the seller. As I mentioned, I am going to go with the Edelbrock Pro-Flo4 MPFI setup and will choose the milder 29lb injector version. I also think I will get the ceramic coated Ram Air exhaust manifolds. Not sure what HP I'll be looking at with the Lunati Cam I've got. 400 maybe but I don't know. 

I'd like to find someone to assemble this engine for me. I haven't started looking locally yet. If I can't find anybody here, do you know anybody good up in your area?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I finished installing the firewall body mount bracket. After welding and finishing I mixed up some epoxy primer, used a brush and let it seep down into the flanges.








I then moved to the d/s rear wheelwell area and repaired the front lower area rust holes. This was a little worse than the other side and I had to do it in 2 patches. This is the first one and it was cut from the new outer wheelhouse panel.








Fabricated the second patch and welded in:








Done:








After studying the rust I could see on the back side of the inner wheelhouse, I made this cut. Fixing this will be more involved than I first estimated.
















At the top you can see the foam type caulk that the factory used. Water leaked into it from above. Some of this is 3 layers. The floor flange is in between some bracketing and the inner wheelhouse. 

Caulk removed exposing more metal damage. Some rust goes into the trunk floor area a little.








I cut off the rest of the rusted trunk floor flange and the rust area that went into the the trunk. I'm getting the good metal cleaned up so I will be able to fabricate new metal and weld in. A little more cleanup to do but I've got most of it done.
















The rear bracket has some rust holes in one little area but I will be able to repair those in place. I'll use copper bar under the holes so I can weld them up easier. Here's a photo from inside the trunk:








I'm going to have these same issues on the passenger side but I don't think it is quite as bad as this side. I see a flaw in the factory caulking job already. Not only is this foam caulk not good quality, they don't do a very good job of putting it in either.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I thought it would be good to show how I use copper bar to help weld up rust holes. 

I have these 3 small pieces of 1/8" copper bar that I've done this with many times before.








Copper in place and ready for first weld:








First weld:








After a few iterations of moving the copper bar along and welding, here it is all welded and ready to be finished off:








Finished off using an 80 grit Roloc sanding disc. I also used a carbide burr to even out where I couldn't reach with the Roloc.








Also dressed up the underneath side of the bracket:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It took me a while to make and weld in all the patches I needed. The first one was the small area into the trunk floor:
















Next was the floor flange that I did in 2 pieces. First piece:








And 2nd:








Flange pieces welded in and finished off:








Then finally, the wheelhouse panel. I also did this in 2 pieces. 
Both welded welded in:








And all finished:
















I guess I'll tackle this same area on the other side next.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Figured out how moisture gets in the area above the tail lights.

I started digging foam caulk in the trunk area out. Take a look at what I found here after removing caulk in the corner:








This separation and the splits had to have been this way when it left the factory and they just filled it all with the crappy caulk. Looks to me like the machine they used to bend and join the panels together splits them and they just fill with caulk and called it good.

The other side which isn't rusted has splits too but fit somewhat better. This is what it looked like there after removing the caulk:








I squared up the big rust hole to see what all I was going to have to do to repair it.:








It's interesting what the factory does here. There's a vertical flange that's part of the rear tail light panel that serves no purpose. It's not attached to anything and there is a gap between it and the quarter panel. They just filled that gap with foam caulk that traps moisture and promotes the rusting. 
Here's a photo from the inside on the non-rusted one on the other side after I dug out all the foam caulk:








Next I cut off what was left of the flange with no purpose and I could see that the bottom part of the quarter that wraps under had to be cut out. I was hoping that wouldn't be the case but it was too far gone. I drilled out the spot welds and removed it.
















I'll weld up the folds and splits when I restore this area. I guess I'll finish this process up before going to the p/s inner wheelhouse issue. 

It does look like it will be just as bad as the other side was. I removed the caulk from above and see the rust in the floor just about the same and a rust hole in the brace on the underneath side.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Finished fixing quarter panel rust hole above p/s tail light.

I did this in 2 patches. First was the bottom where the quarter panel wraps under and is welded to the tail light panel flange. It was really important to get the shape of this patch correct. I made a template of the shape using the other side as a guide. I traced a line onto a piece of sheetmetal and when turned upside down can be used on the opposite side.
Here it is welded into place:
















This is how I made the next patch:
















I left the bottom edge a little long and will trim it off after welding.
























I welded the bottom edge from inside the trunk.








I did have to planish using a hammer and dolly during the welding process and after the the welding was finished. Both to stretch back the shrinkage from welding heat and some in order to get the metal to fit the shape of the bottom edge. It's a compound curve and that has to be formed as it's installed. It was a bit of a challenge but I got it pretty well and I don't think I will need any filler but just some high build primer.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Previous body damage repair*

I took the following 2 photos of the rear of the d/s quarter panel back in October when I stripped the paint:
















Not the best job of dent removal for sure. They had used a lot of bondo in that are that I had to remove too. 
I reworked it today using a couple of different body hammers, dolly and body file and got it much better. 
















I also welded up the small holes that it had in the corner that I showed in a photo from a couple of days ago. 








Both sides of this area are now done and I will move to repairing the p/s inner wheelhouse same as I did on the d/s last week. I wont post all the details on that since it will be pretty much the exact same process.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks good. The copper bar can also be used when welding aluminum as aluminum can get soft real fast and if you are not careful, it'll just drip off.

I have to do the rear corners on my '68 and that seems to be a real sore spot on these bodies. I am surprised no one offers a repair panel. I guess the rot is localized enough that cutting and patching is not too bad. That lip welded to nothing was probably part of the die stamping process and rather than take the $time to trim it, the factory just left it. Remember these cars were not supposed to last forever - maybe 8-10 years and then they got junked.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks Jim!
I think they should offer patch panels for these areas. Even though the patch needed is small, the compound curve makes it tricky.
I think you are right about the flange connected to nothing. Leaving it there wasn't the real problem though. It was filling the gap up with a poor quality caulk that was the really bad thing to do. Combined with wrapped quarter corners that didn't fold correctly, it was just a rust problem waiting to happen.

Today's progress update:
No explanations needed. Same process as other side.
A little better in that I was able to save a short portion of the upper floor flange.
A little worse rust on the trunk floor brace though.








































Now ready to make some patches to install.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Finished p/s inner wheelhouse rust issue today*

Trunk floor and flanges complete. Ready for making the wheelhouse patches:
















Inner wheelhouse patches welded in and finished off:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A few more things done.

I started on repairing the inner wheelhouses at the lower rear of the wheelwells.
I cut patches for both sides and got the one on the d/s shaped and welded in.

Here are the areas that need patches. I showed photos of this area a while back when I made the cuts:
















Paper templates:








D/S patch in place and tacked:








Ready for finishing off:









I also started digging in to the fender rust some. I removed the patches that were spot welded onto the outside of the rust holes. Looked like a good quality spot welder was used. That was interesting and so was the fact they mixed in small portions of the patch by brazing. Again, I wonder what body school taught those procedures!
















I made cuts and wire brushed the braces.
















As I had mentioned before, I bought patch panels for these areas. 
Those panels included a section of the brace already attached too. The panels look pretty decent but the braces don't. They are a much thinner gauge than the original braces are and I'm thinking about not using them and make patches from proper gauge sheetmetal to graft into the originals where they are rusted out.

Here's the other side of the rusted out braces:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks like a lot of "nickel & dime" rot areas rather than a few major areas. Just takes a lot more time, work, skill to repair these smaller areas, but typical in most older cars as the lower sections of the panels and any mating surface that gets exposed to rain, road salts, and moisture in general rust out.

The spot welding on of patches and brazing was how it was done before the mig welder. Oxy-acytelene welding often cause warping due to the heat and arc welding thin metal is really not where arc welding comes in. Most shops used to have a spot welder and by forming a nice steel patch that extended into the good metal, you would overlay it over the rotted area, spot weld, and then apply a thin coating of bondo and feather it out to blend in the repair and if well done, you would not know the repair was there.

The mig welder, even tig welder, for home use at an affordable price has been a real plus in doing metal repairs without any big set of skills or training. The oxy-acytelene welding took know-how and skill so as not to warp panels and burn through the metal. It was also very slow going as compared to mig. Your car back in the 1980's probably would have been scrapped as the amount of labor/time to oxy-acytelene patches in all those areas that you have already done would have put the costs way above what the car was worth.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Makes sense Jim. However, those kind of repairs were probably only good for a few years even if the car was never again driven in bad weather. Washing the car alone would allow water to collect right back in the covered up rusted areas and start eating away at the patches. 

After a 4 day break, I went back at the car today. 
After trial fitting the off-shore made outer wheelhouses I bought, I came to the conclusion they are useless to me and I wasted my money. They don't fit worth a darn. I've decided to to graft in new metal into my wheelhouses where they have rusted out. I wanted to avoid the time it would take to do that but no way around it with only crappy fitting outer wheelhouses available.

I have made some progress on building the lower rear section on the d/s outer wheelhouse. This part will be the hardest to do.
These are 3 pieces I have tacked together and into place so far








It's not going to be shaped exactly like factory but I'm going to have it fitting nicely when I'm done. Here it is with the rear section of the quarter panel patch panel mocked up:








I have not made the final outer skin cut on the quarter panel but I do have the lines drawn on it.

Here's inside as best as I could take a photo of that spot:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I readjusted what I had yesterday and finished this part up today. Here's the inside:








I've got that bottom part of the area fitting pretty tightly against the mocked up quarter skin. 
Outer side:








Next, I will add metal to the rest of the wheelhouse perimeter where it is gone from the rustout.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I finished the outer wheelhouse today. I added several pieces around the perimeter. Here I was working on the second to last piece:
























Last piece in and all finished up. All that's left to do on the driver side is to install the quarter skin patches. 
















I did a little work on the passenger side today too. Got the patch welded in to repair the area in the lower rear of the inner wheelhouse. I also did some cleaning up on the outer wheelhouse to get clean edges to weld patches to.
As you can see, I had to cut more of the metal out on this side compared to the other.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Finally done with wheelhouse work.*

I've worked on the passenger side outer wheelhouse at least some every day since my last post 6 days ago. It was very time consuming. 
















The lower rear section took the most time. Quite a bit more time than on the driver side since more had to be cut out. 








Glad to have this part done so I can move on to installing the patch panel quarter skins.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> *Finally done with wheelhouse work.*
> 
> I've worked on the passenger side outer wheelhouse at least some every day since my last post 6 days ago. It was very time consuming.
> 
> ...


Takes a lot of patience measuring, cutting, fitting, welding. The worst part is when you fabricate a piece and its all welded up and took time to get it done, it doesn't fit as intended and you have to fabricate a new piece all over again. LOL Hate when that happens. I use templates myself, but sometimes even they can turn out a wrong piece. Part of the fun.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yup. I did have to discard a few pieces that I made and wouldn't fit. It is kind of like a 3 dimensional jigsaw puzzle and it's that 3rd dimension that makes it so hard. I believe it was worth all the effort though to insure a correct fit. I'm guessing I'll have a better fit of parts than when it left the factory. Certainly way better than using reproduction wheelhouses.
The work was tough on my 65 year old body though. My lower back is definitely tired of sitting on a mechanics stool for so many hours over so many days.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

My God , man ,
if you’re not a Master Car Body Artist
No one is 😲😮🤠


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Jetzster said:


> My God , man ,
> if you’re not a Master Car Body Artist
> No one is 😲😮🤠


Thanks for the compliment! 
I'm now anxious to get started on installing the patch panels. But it looks like I'm going to have to take a couple of days off because of my lower back. Tried to work on it yesterday and it tightened up on me.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

My back is getting much better but haven't gotten back to working on the car yet. I did find out what the problem is and found many mechanics, body men and floor layers have this same issue caused from sitting on a short mechanics stool and leaning forward. I ran across THIS and ordered one today and it will be here Saturday.
It is a funny looking thing but the reviews say they work great. We shall see.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I would get the one with the chest support.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

That can be added separately and I think I will be getting it. I wanted to try it without first though. 
What is your experience with these?


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Let us know how that goes. My feet fall asleep when my knees are bent. So I would have to pass on that, not to mention the bicycle seat.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

roger1 said:


> That can be added separately and I think I will be getting it. I wanted to try it without first though.
> What is your experience with these?


I don't have any experience with it, it just looked like a good idea. If I did buy it I would definitely get the chest support. However, the only use I would have at my age would be at the tire/wheel level, and that just doesn't' make economic sense for me.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Old Man Taylor said:


> I don't have any experience with it, it just looked like a good idea. If I did buy it I would definitely get the chest support. However, the only use I would have at my age would be at the tire/wheel level, and that just doesn't' make economic sense for me.


The price separately was within only a few dollars of ordering them together. So I figured why not try it without the chest support first. It sounded to me like the chest support was more helpful for floor layers than it was for mechanic and body work. But if I like the creeper after using it, I'll get the chest support for it anyway. 
It comes tomorrow. By Sunday I'll report here and give you an idea what I think about it.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

I have to say your work is impressive, the attention to detail shows true love of your craft. Keep up the good work!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

deanhickey said:


> I have to say your work is impressive, the attention to detail shows true love of your craft. Keep up the good work!


Thanks! I appreciate your comment. And yes, working on cars has been a hobby for me since I was a teenager and am fortunate to be able to make it my focus in retirement.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So after resting my back for over a week, I tried out my new creeper seat the last couple of days for short durations and it does seem to work. My back has continued to improve. 
So I started working on installing the quarter panel patch panels on the p/s. I got the rear one tacked in place and have the front one clamped on and ready to scribe a line for the final cut on the existing metal. 
















I did have one issue where the 2 panels meet together. These panels come flanged on the ends and of course the best thing to do is not use them and do butt welds instead. So I cut those flanges off and this left them a little short necessitating an extension be fabricated and welded to one the panels.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> So after resting my back for over a week, I tried out my new creeper seat the last couple of days for short durations and it does seem to work. My back has continued to improve.
> So I started working on installing the quarter panel patch panels on the p/s. I got the rear one tacked in place and have the front one clamped on and ready to scribe a line for the final cut on the existing metal.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think many know what tools you are using for attachment? Those "pins" are called Cleco's. I used them all the time when I used to assemble helicopter panels. They require a special set of Cleco pliers. A great addition for the guys who do sheet metal repairs. I still have these and the small clamps used with the cleco pliers. They come in handy.









Amazon.com: Cleco Tool Kit One Clecos Pliers 1/8 Clecos 10pk, 3/16 Clecos 10pk Cleco Fasteners Sheet Metal Tool Cleco's : Tools & Home Improvement


Buy Cleco Tool Kit One Clecos Pliers 1/8 Clecos 10pk, 3/16 Clecos 10pk Cleco Fasteners Sheet Metal Tool Cleco's: Tool Sets - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got a new goody for the car delivered today:








I won't be ready for it for quite a long while but YearOne had a price on that was so good, I figured I better jump on it. I got it for $1895 plus $46.50 shipping and no tax. I thought they had it on sale but I'm now wondering if they had it mispriced since they raised their price on it shortly after I ordered it.

Installing the quarter panel patch panels has been pretty time consuming. Several iterations of welding and planishing. It's coming along well but still have a little more planishing left to do on the rear section.
I've been using a combination of a hammer and dolly and slapper and dolly and I needed my wife's help for some of it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The rear patch panel on the passenger side gave me some trouble to finish out. It sucked in on me in a couple of places and it was enough to pull in the styling crease. I had to do quite a bit of planishing and needed my wife's help by holding a dolly while inside the trunk. I overstretched a few places and needed to use my shrinking disc to shrink those spots back. We got it though and it's now pretty darn good I think and the entire passenger side quarter is complete.
















This is the shrinking disc I use:
















I've now moved on to working on the driver side and installed the rear patch panel. 
Here's a progression of photos from fitting to finish.

First was to use some Cleco fasteners to hold the patch panel tightly in place in order to scribe a line onto the existing metal:








I used a Sharpie first then scratched that line using a utility knife. I then removed the patch panel:








I then used a cutoff tool to cut the existing panel fairly close but a little shy of my scribed line:








I then used the Roloc flap disc to carefully grind the metal back to the scribed line:








I then started tack welding in the patch panel. I first made tacks about an inch apart and then tacks in between after letting the panel cool:








At this point I ground the tacks down and did some planishing to stretch the heat shrinkage:








After more welding followed up with more planishing, here is the finished panel. It went well. I did not get any sucking in issue that I did on the other side:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Got the front patch panel section installed on the driver side and finished off. 
Between all the work I had to do with the wheelhouses and these skins, I've got a bunch of hours in repairing these wheel wells. Me and my back are glad to have this done. 
















The planishing part of the skin installation to stretch the heat shrinkage was certainly not easy. But, I'm very pleased with how it all came out.


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## SolarRed68 (Jan 28, 2021)

Couldn't be more impressed with your thoughtfulness, creativity, and your attention to detail. You are an excellent photographer and explain things clearly and simply while also "showing us" through the pics. Thank you for taking the time to document it all so well. Really enjoying following this thread and I'm learning a ton. Now I know exactly what to look for and where to check when the time comes on my car. Heck.. I might have to hire you to do mine next. Keep up the great work!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

SolarRed68 said:


> Couldn't be more impressed with your thoughtfulness, creativity, and your attention to detail. You are an excellent photographer and explain things clearly and simply while also "showing us" through the pics. Thank you for taking the time to document it all so well. Really enjoying following this thread and I'm learning a ton. Now I know exactly what to look for and where to check when the time comes on my car. Heck.. I might have to hire you to do mine next. Keep up the great work!


Thanks for the compliments! 
I have been kind of a photography buff since I was very young and enjoy the photo taking process. I have a dedicated camera that I use for this. They don't make the model anymore so I bought a NOS one a while back and it's still in the box unused. I also enjoy the documentation. It allows me to show off a little and to give back by sharing info that may help others. When it comes time for the engine to be assembled, I will need help from you guys here so I guess I'm paying it forward. I'm considering paying to have it assembled for me but I'll still need help with deciding about some parts for it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Fenders are done.

I may have shown these before but here are the previously repaired (mangled) dents. One in each fender. It looks to me like they were repaired by hammering without a dolly and by using one of those slide hammer dent pullers that created the holes. Bondo was 1/2" thick in these areas.
















I used a hammer and dolly on them some before welding up all the holes then a lot more work using a slapping spoon and dolly and shrinking disc.
Here's the driver side dent completed:








P/S Fender brace repair.
















This one shows the repaired dent:








Patch panel tacked in:
















P/S Done:








Repaired D/S brace in the same manner as the P/S. Patch panel clamped in place for scribing a cut line.








Tacked in place:








D/S complete:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So it's been over 2 weeks since I've posted here last. Much of that time we were in the deep freeze and I wasn't able to work on the car. I have electric heat in my shop and even though we were among the lucky ones not to lose our electricity, they were asking us to conserve as much as possible. Our city lost water and is still having issues but we are on a well so with electricity, we didn't lose water either therefore could keep things dripping to not have any frozen pipes either. 

I have been back at it now and have reached 2 milestones. The first is that the car's seats are now at the upholstery shop. I've used the shop for 3 other car projects and I think they are the best of the best. First thing he is going to do is strip the seats down to the frames and send them out for blasting and powder coating. And, I've ordered Parchment covers from Ames and decided to go with the Legendary brand for him to install.

The other milestone was that I have chosen a shop to build my engine and have already taken it there. They are a racing engine shop and do all of their own machine work.
The seller of my car had most the machine work done already but I'm going to have them thoroughly check the work that has been done and finish up what hadn't. They will assemble it and run it in and put it on their dyno too. This will include the setup of the new Edelbrock fuel injection system I just bought. 
They also have a guy that comes in from time-to-time that does rear end work so the owner told me to bring him my rear axle and new parts and he will get him to put that together for me.

So anyway I am quite excited that I've got the ball rolling on these things.

As far as the body, the only thing I've accomplished since my last post is removing the lead from the panel seams between the trunk lid and rear window and welding those seams up completely.

To remove the lead, I used a propane torch and a hand wire brush. I tried to heat it minimally and not fling the lead all over. I wore rubber gloves and a face mask and vacuumed it up afterwards.
Here's what they looked like after removing the lead:
















I welded it up and did about 3 or 4 passes:
















Smoothed out:
















My plan is to blast these welds then coat with epoxy primer and then add epoxy filler to it while the primer is still early in it's re-coat window.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I totally degreased the insides of the rear axle and got it blasted along with some suspension parts:
















I will spray these parts with black epoxy primer same as what I did with the frame. I'm planning on getting the rear axle to the engine builder next week to have his guy set up the new gears in it.

I've got a little welding and finishing to do on the front upper control arms to repair boogers that were put in it from a previous owner getting too aggressive with a hammer when the bushings were replaced.

I recently bought some parts that will be needed for the engine builder to complete my engine. 
I bought a new timing cover and harmonic balancer and painted them with Duplicolor DE1616 Pontiac blue metallic ceramic engine enamel.
Also got new Ram Air Restorations oversized ram air exhaust manifolds with the cast color ceramic coating option. The downpipes are 2 1/2" Pypes stainless and I will weld an oxygen sensor bung into one of them before taking them over to the engine builder.
























I'll hang onto my ugly old log manifolds since they are original.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

While you are repairing your A arms there's a small modification you may want to consider. The lower arm sometimes cracks around the ball joint. The preventive fix is to weld a brace over that area. 
This guy sells a kit.






Einstyn :: Store







www.einstyn.com


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Moving right along nicely. I just got the call from my upholsterer who said my bucket seats are ready. Used all Legendary stuff in Parchment to change over from the original green/gold. I''ll post pictures.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

O52 said:


> While you are repairing your A arms there's a small modification you may want to consider. The lower arm sometimes cracks around the ball joint. The preventive fix is to weld a brace over that area.
> This guy sells a kit.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip. I'll do some research on this.



PontiacJim said:


> Moving right along nicely. I just got the call from my upholsterer who said my bucket seats are ready. Used all Legendary stuff in Parchment to change over from the original green/gold. I''ll post pictures.


Thanks Jim. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos. Did you have them put new foam in those seats? If so, what brand were they?

Update:
I got my rear end painted with black epoxy primer today.
























I'll let this all cure at least a couple of days before taking it to the engine builder's shop.

Also today, I primered and painted this 30 year old Radio Flyer wagon. I'm restoring it for a neighbor. I used the black epoxy and waited a couple of hours before painting it with the red single stage urethane. I had blasted this yesterday along with the other parts.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> Thanks for the tip. I'll do some research on this.
> 
> 
> Thanks Jim. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos. Did you have them put new foam in those seats? If so, what brand were they?
> ...



I used ACI seat foams as they are said to be the best. I'll be getting my seats on Wednesday, and I will post a few pics for you to see. Everything I got was directly from Legendary, not through one of the retailers. They have an online catalog and you can see all that is needed. My bill was just over $1,000 for the bucket seat covers, foam, installation kit, seat backs, and seat bases. Recovering both seats is $680.00. Not inexpensive by any means and with mine being a resto-mod I could have gone way cheaper buying ready to go and bolt in aftermarket seats, but I wanted to keep the interior somewhat original. I also wanted something that will wear well and not go bad in a couple years. On my door panels, I did cheapen out and go PUI as I am doing some modifications and not using 1968 arm rests and handles, and these don't get the wear seats do. The colors between the manufacturers may not be a perfect match, which I have not yet compared, but I am OK with it as metallic parchment is metallic parchment in my book and they don't lay on top of each other so as to make any difference in shades highly noticeable.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> I used ACI seat foams as they are said to be the best. I'll be getting my seats on Wednesday, and I will post a few pics for you to see. Everything I got was directly from Legendary, not through one of the retailers. They have an online catalog and you can see all that is needed. My bill was just over $1,000 for the bucket seat covers, foam, installation kit, seat backs, and seat bases. Recovering both seats is $680.00. Not inexpensive by any means and with mine being a resto-mod I could have gone way cheaper buying ready to go and bolt in aftermarket seats, but I wanted to keep the interior somewhat original. I also wanted something that will wear well and not go bad in a couple years. On my door panels, I did cheapen out and go PUI as I am doing some modifications and not using 1968 arm rests and handles, and these don't get the wear seats do. The colors between the manufacturers may not be a perfect match, which I have not yet compared, but I am OK with it as metallic parchment is metallic parchment in my book and they don't lay on top of each other so as to make any difference in shades highly noticeable.



OK, got my bucket seats today. I just put up a post on them here:









1968 Lemans/GTO Bucket Seat Re-Upholstered


1968 Lemans Bucket Seats The original green/gold bucket seats were worn out. I am changing over the interior from the green/gold to parchment (white). I purchased the covers, ACI foam, installation kit, seat backs, and lower seat surrounds directly from Legendary Interiors at a cost of $1,100...




www.gtoforum.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Looks great to me Jim. Congrats.
I looked through all the photos and see that you sound very pleased. Excellent!

One worry I have that you don't is that I have headrests. Since I don't want to use headrest covers, my only choice for new headrests is black and will have to paint them. I don't think it's all that important if the plastic parts don't exactly match the seat vinyl but it is important for the headrests to match IMO. I noticed Legendary doesn't sell paint but does have a recommendation for a paint company to use.


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> OK, got my bucket seats today. I just put up a post on them here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Jim,
How long did it take for your stuff to come from Legendary? I ordered a complete interior for my 65 in black on 2/12. Received the kits for the front and rear seats already, but no seat covers, door panels, or carpet.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I ordered my '69 Legendary covers from Ames and got them in a week. Evidently, Ames had them on their shelf.


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

roger1 said:


> I ordered my '69 Legendary covers from Ames and got them in a week. Evidently, Ames had them on their shelf.


I ordered my interior from Ames as well as a complete glass kit. They called me about the glass kit and stated that it would be $60 additional to box it and $225 additional for shipping(to a commercial address). Told them I didn’t have a commercial address and just deliver it to my house. I live on the main road in my subdivision and there is a constant stream of 18 wheelers and other big rigs up and down all day long. THAT was an additional $50 too, so I told them to cancel the order. She then told me that the Legendary stuff would be delivered in July so I told her to cancel that order as well. I ordered a glass kit from auto city on eBay for $700 delivered. Saved over $500 from the Ames order. Ordered directly from Legendary and got part of the order already but am waiting for the pretty stuff.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

SLSTEVE said:


> Hey Jim,
> How long did it take for your stuff to come from Legendary? I ordered a complete interior for my 65 in black on 2/12. Received the kits for the front and rear seats already, but no seat covers, door panels, or carpet.


I had ordered them before all the Covid car show cancellations last year. Legendary was going to be at the Charlotte AutoFair and they were going to deliver all my items to the show which would have saved me shipping costs. It was about 3 months out, and they put a priority on getting the seat covers made as they don't stock them, they make them on an "as ordered" basis and then have to schedule their making. This is why it takes so long. If any of the other suppliers have them in stock and on the shelf, they that would be why you get them fast, not because Legendary made them faster for that person/order. With the Charlotte show cancelled, I then had to pay for UPS shipping to my house, so I did not save on the shipping, but got my covers and other items a little faster than others.


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I had ordered them before all the Covid car show cancellations last year. Legendary was going to be at the Charlotte AutoFair and they were going to deliver all my items to the show which would have saved me shipping costs. It was about 3 months out, and they put a priority on getting the seat covers made as they don't stock them, they make them on an "as ordered" basis and then have to schedule their making. This is why it takes so long. If any of the other suppliers have them in stock and on the shelf, they that would be why you get them fast, not because Legendary made them faster for that person/order. With the Charlotte show cancelled, I then had to pay for UPS shipping to my house, so I did not save on the shipping, but got my covers and other items a little faster than others.


OK so that is my plight then. Hopefully it won’t be 5 months like Ames said. I still have a while to go before I need that stuff but I will be looking at suitable substitutions for bucket seats in the meantime. Small lawn chair, cut down 5 gallon bucket?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:
Today, I spent all afternoon under the car blasting the floor. I got it about 95% done.
























































Got a couple of things accomplished yesterday too. I took the rear end and a load parts down to my engine builder yesterday. 

I also called Art Carr at California Performance Transmission and ordered a 200-4R tranny. 
I went with a non-lockup 2000 to 2200 stall torque converter. Art does not recommend going with a lockup. He would sell me what I needed to if I insisted but was trying hard to talk me out of it. With the controller he recommends along with a more expensive lockup torque converter it would have added about $500 to the cost. When I told him to go non-lockup, he said "good decision". 
I also bought a conversion yoke, Lokar TV cable, Setrab cooler, inspection cover, dip-stick and tube. That should be about everything I will need.
It will ship in about 4 weeks.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> Updates:
> Today, I spent all afternoon under the car blasting the floor. I got it about 95% done.
> 
> 
> ...


Looks good on the underside. I blasted the underside on my Lemans, but on my back - the blast media goes everywhere. I did not go crazy and get it as clean as yours, but got it fairly good knocking off all the loose rust/dirt/factory undercoating which left a solid base for an application of POR-15 and a cover of black spray paint - also laying on my back. POR-15 can really ruin a set of work clothes. LOL Came out good.

The non-lock up converter was the better choice. I think less problems as well. It'll make for a nice cruiser and have plenty of pep when you hit the gas - as needed of course.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks Jim! 
I'm going to paint mine with SPI black epoxy primer. I'm really sold on that stuff and have been using it for years.
Glad to hear you say I made the right decision on the torque converter. I also figured since Art Carr has such a great reputation, I should listen to his advice.

Today's update:
I saw this yesterday during the blasting and dug into it a little more today. Did a little poking and it punched through.
















I missed this little rust issue. Hard to see before when everything was black. This is where the toe board and floor overlap and attach. The good news is this is the only thing I missed. The rest of the floor looks fantastic.

I decided to finish the blasting up after I fix this. Already have cut out the compromised area. I cut back the part of the flange further back so I can weld in the toe board part from the top. So I need to do 2 patches here. Pretty simple.

















Also, I got a call from my engine builder today that my rear end was done and ready to pick up. That was sure fast. 
I set it in place:


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## dadspackard31 (Dec 2, 2019)

Roger,

You and your engine builder are on warp speed.

Great work as always.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I can't tell on the rear axle, but don't forget/make sure you have the small axle vent/breather that allows the pressure in the axle to vent. Otherwise you can develop leaks.

The pic come from Inline Tube, GM 10-bolt axle/breather.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

dadspackard31 said:


> Roger,
> You and your engine builder are on warp speed.
> Great work as always.


Thanks!!
Funny, from my prospective I think I work slow but when I look at my progress since I got the car last October, it does seem like I've gotten a lot done in a short period of time.



PontiacJim said:


> I can't tell on the rear axle, but don't forget/make sure you have the small axle vent/breather that allows the pressure in the axle to vent. Otherwise you can develop leaks.


The original is there and in fine shape. I think if you expand that photo, you will be able to see it.

Got a couple of things done today.
Finished floor rust issue I found and showed yesterday.

First patch:
















Second patch:
















And all done:
















Then a little suspension work.
I drilled my lower rear control arms to accept a sway bar. I was able to find where the hole locations were on a Chevelle forum. I weld the boxing plates on tomorrow.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Finished up boxing the lower rear control arms and installed the bushings.
I sprayed the Eastwood internal frame coating inside the arms after finishing the welding. I also installed the bushings in the uppers and into the rear end housing. 
















I received the Gforce transmission crossmember I ordered and got it installed. It fits perfectly. This thing is very stout.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I snapped another photo of the GForce crossmember that shows how thick the steel is on it. The ends are 3/8" and the exhaust humps are 5/8".








Today I removed the u-joints from the driveshaft. The were originals and the type that are held in with plastic inserts. Heated them with a torch to melt the plastic out. It's kind of fun when they pop as long as you back so you don't get hit with the hot grease that shoots out. I also used a stripping disc on the driveshaft to clean it up some before blasting it.
I am going to shoot 3 coats of epoxy on it then sand smooth and paint with cast iron gray.








I wont be using the original transmission yoke since it wont work with a 200-R4. Got a new one coming with the Art Carr transmission.


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

roger1 said:


> I snapped another photo of the GForce crossmember that shows how thick the steel is on it. The ends are 3/8" and the exhaust humps are 5/8".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Geez, how much does that behemoth weigh? It is STOUT! Love what you are doing to the car!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks Steve. 
Shipping weight said 30 pounds. I'd say that's what it felt like. I added some weight to the car with that but the 200-4R I'm going to use is about 20 lbs lighter than the TH400. And will lose some weight up front using an aluminum intake instead of the original cast iron one. I couldn't believe how heavy that was. I may lose a little weight on a radiator too. I'm thinking about going with an aluminum one.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got a bunch of suspension parts all cleaned up and ready for paint. I used a wire wheel to get all the grease off of them before putting them in my blasting cabinet. This takes more time than you think it would.
















The rear springs are original to the car but I'm sure the front had been replaced at some point. They have the number 5386 stamped on them which correspond to the Moog part number for 1968 convertible w/AC front springs. But '68 and '69 springs aren't the same. And, I'm going to have some weight reduction up front compared to stock. I'll be using an aluminum intake manifold, an aluminum radiator and possibly an aluminum AC compressor. Added up, I figure that's going to be about a 75 lb reduction. I'm a little concerned my car might sit too high in the front with these springs.

I'm not concerned if the original rear springs have a little sag since I'm going to be using Air Lift bags inside them.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Got a lot of blasting done today.
Finished the rest of the underneath blasting first then lowered the car down and did the firewall, cowls, rockers, door jambs, tail panel, trunk seal channel and a little part of the trunk floor.








































Swept up. I'll get this sifted and reclaimed back in the buckets tomorrow:









There was a little rust in the rear part of the trunk seal channel. Only one little spot was comprimized:








I'll get this welded up tomorrow. Easy since I can get a copper bar behind it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Kind of a milestone today. I've finished blasting the body shell. 
















I didn't see a need to blast 100% off of the floor. Only the low spots had any surface rust at all and I blasted those clean.
























I also blasted the driveshaft:








After I get all the blasting media out of the body and get the room cleaned up real well, I'll put some urethane seam sealer on the body in places and then get it in epoxy primer.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

In preparation for painting the underbody, I added some seam sealer and installed the floor plugs.
Before applying any seam sealer, I brushed SPI epoxy primer onto the places first. I used some 3M urethane seam sealer and also some Evercoat brush-on seam sealer which is gray. I installed the floor plugs using the seam sealer as an adhesive and covered the edges with the brush-on.
Underneath, I only used the seam sealer on the toe-board to floor pan seam and in the wheel wells were the outer and inner wheelhouses join.
























I sprayed the SPI epoxy primer on today using an Iwata LPH-400 gun with the Devillbiss DeKups spray cup system which allows the gun to spray completely up-side-down. As I did with the frame, I sprayed 2 coats of epoxy with the first coat in gray and second in black as it helps get a more even coat on the 2nd coat that way.

Gray coat:
















And the black coat:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got some suspension parts painted with epoxy primer:
































I got the brake backing plates painted, pressed new lugs into the new axles and got them installed:








I dropped by the interior shop last week and he had gotten the seats all broken down and the frames were already back from getting powder coated. They look really nice:
















He did not send the rear panels out for powder coating so I took them back home with me and will clean them up and paint with epoxy primer. I also brought back many of the small parts to clean up or replace with new. 

I also dropped by the machine shop last week to drop off the new water pump that had been back-ordered and he said he planned on starting on my engine this week. I ordered a new set of spark plugs, spark plug wires and a loom set and I'll take those over when I receive them.

Since my goal is to have my suspension all installed and have my chassis able to roll soon, I needed to decide what I wanted to do for a steering box. After a lot of research, I decided to get a new Borgeson 800 box and got that ordered from Ames.


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

roger1 said:


> I got some suspension parts painted with epoxy primer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great progress! Everything looks better than it did when it was new!


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## Drewsgto69 (Apr 7, 2021)

Great job and progress. I have a 69 convert, and wish I had the time to do my car. Work gets in the way. About how many hours do you have into the car so far?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks!
I don't try to track my hours. It's not important to me since I'm retired and I do it for the fun and satisfaction. Plus, I get distracted and pulled away so much that it would be very difficult for me to do.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the rear suspension installed. Some brake lines too. I bought the frame supports from Inline Tube and painted with epoxy as they come unpainted. Everything I've read says its a good thing to add them as the factory did on the 4 speed cars only.
















I painted the new drums and brake cylinders with Duplicolor cast color to hinder them from rusting.








I started assembling the front suspension too. I'm ready to install the springs but I'm waiting for a new spring compressor that I ordered. I have one but don't trust it anymore and I'm not sure I would trust the loaners from Autozone either. The one I ordered is an *OTC 7045B* but it is backordered so it may be a while before I get it.








I got my Borgeson 800 steering box delivered and installed. The reviews on this are excellent.








These cross shafts are original but all the hardware is new. I recorded what the old shims were and installed new shims that were the same size to use as a starting point for an alignment. The upper and lower bushings are Prothane. The seller of the car had bought these. I greased them up well with their special grease. I bought a tub of it as I wanted to put more on than the little tubes they give you.
The rear bushings are all stock-type Moog replacements.








I also started working on the interior and seat parts that I brought back home from the interior shop last week.

I used a stripping disc to get the glue off the rear panels and blasted them. I'll paint these with SPI epoxy at the same time as when I paint the body floor. I'm planning on doing that fairly soon.








I also blasted, painted and lubed the bucket seat tracks. I used motorcycle chain lube that's kind of a wax designed so dust and dirt doesn't readily stick to it.








Here's the rest of the parts I need to go thru and decide what to clean up and what to replace.








I stopped by the machine shop this morning to take him some parts that I had bought. Spark plugs, wires, loom kit and an oil filter. He said he won't be able to start on the engine this week but next week sounds like a for sure.
I'm thinking my Art Carr 200-R4 should be here next week if he sticks to the 1 month estimate he gave me.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Excellent work and excellent writeup. Thanks for contributing to the community.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

aseyc said:


> Excellent work and excellent writeup. Thanks for contributing to the community.


Thanks!
I'm glad to take these photos and do this documentation for showing here. It's part of the fun. I get to show off a bit and it has the possibility to help others.

I left out a photo I wanted to show yesterday. 
I painted all the steering linkage parts with Duplicolor cast engine enamel and the dust shields with aluminum paint. I've got new Timken bearings so it's all ready to install once I get the springs in.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Oh man it makes me want to go and start my project


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

aseyc said:


> Oh man it makes me want to go and start my project


Then I guess I'm doing my job here! 
Any new estimates of when you will start on it? I hope you've been able to have some fun with the car since you've had it.

A bit done today:

I thought about painting the body floor with epoxy today and changed my mind. I'll wait until I have the body back on the frame so I can get all the bracing out of the way. 
My intention is to install the engine and transmission and then wrap the entire chassis in plastic stretch wrap right before setting the body on. 
So I continued to get a few more things installed on the frame today instead. I got more brake lines installed and all the e-brake cables.
























The clips with the bolts you see are the originals that I blasted and painted with Duplicolor aluminum engine enamel. I wont use original clips along the straight part of the frame rail that also clip the fuel lines in. They won't work since I need to run the fuel lines different from stock for the fuel injection. I haven't bought any fuel line yet but I will need to run 2 - 3/8" lines for the feed and return. I'm still studying on how I want to do it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Decided what I'm going to do for fuel lines. I bought a stock type pre-bent fuel line from Inline tube to run on along the driver side frame with the rear brake line. That allows me to use stock clamps along the straight part of the frame and I ordered those too. For the return line, I decided to run that on the passenger side but will bend that myself. I ordered a roll of 3/8" nicopp tubing that's easier to bend than regular steel fuel line. And I will use existing holes in the frame for new 3/8" clamps with 5/16" bolts so I can use factory holes. Even though this is a resto-mod, I don't want to drill new holes when I don't have to.

I haven't done a lot of new things in the shop since my last post. I've been spending a lot of time on the computer researching parts. My interior guy emailed me and said he wants me to buy new seat foam, so before ordering that from Ames, I worked up an order with a lot other parts from Ames and got that done this morning. I went though all the small parts for the seats and cleaned up and painted some and ordered others from Ames that I wanted to replace. I also got the small parts cleaned, blasted and painted where necessary and wrapped and ready to go back to the interior shop when the new stuff gets here.








I installed the most of the steering linkage but haven't tightened all up yet. I haven't heard anything on when my new spring compressor will ship but I'm hoping not long after I finish installing the fuel lines.








I moved all the rest of the things out of my storage shed and lined them up. I figured I would try and get the paint stripped and get my blasting done while I'm waiting for my engine and transmission. The weather window for me to do outside blasting is running short. Not too many cool days left here before the heat sets in for good. 








I got these out too. I'll want to blast them after I get the crud off and repair the sloppy access hole.








So my plan after putting the body back on the frame is to install all these things in a mock-up. I'll then get everything aligned the way I want and start the primering and blocking phase. But I will blow it all back apart for painting it all.

So I got a call from the machine shop on Friday. They got started on my engine. The previous machine work on the block checked out good. The cylinders were a little too tight for the pistons but is what you want before honing them. Evidently he's got a super good honing machine too. He didn't like the rope type rear main in the gasket kit I gave him and wanted me to get one from Butler along with a new oil pump shaft. I got that rush delivered and it got here today. Sounds like he will pretty much have the engine complete this week but it may be another week until he's ready to run it.
He did want me to buy the fuel pressure regulator I was going to use rather than the one on his dyno machine. I had to do quite a bit of research on that before making a decision. I got some help on the Edelbrock forum for that decision too. I'm getting a 58 psi one from Edelbrock that mounts on the fuel rail. They also gave me some advice on the forum for software parameters to use for the initial programming.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks great and moving right along. I suggest you might want to consider putting some form of water proof sealant on the tops.bottoms of the body bushings when you are ready for final tightening. This will keep moisture out from between the metal frame/under body and it'll never need another repair in its lifetime.

Did you address the inside of the frame with any protection? I used the Eastwood protectant that has the 14" extended hose/spray nozzle to get up inside the frame to coat it and protect it. I used the zinc green colored spray. It comes in black as well. Very thin and runny like POR-15 (may even be POR-15?) so it'll get in all the crevices and it'll run out all over the outside of the frame in some spots when spraying it.









Eastwood Internal Frame Coating 14 oz Aerosol


Destroys rust hiding inside chassis so it won't rust through




www.eastwood.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks Jim.
I know what you are saying but I have a different school of thought on both things. I consider the metal on top of and the bottom of the body mounts already sealed as they are protected with SPI epoxy primer. Also, I never worry about or spray anything inside a frame. This frame is solid after 50 years and it's going to be treated much better in the next 50 years and beyond since it's going to be driven and treated completely different than it was before. I'll only drive it in the rain if I get caught in it unexpectedly and it will never see snow or a salty road.
That said, I do have a few cans of that Eastwood product. I've already used it inside the lower rear control arms that I boxed in. I plan on using some inside the rocker panels too. I'm going to try and drip SPI epoxy primer from above into the areas from the inside where the quarter panels meet the outer wheelhouses. If can't get in there very well, I'll use the Eastwood stuff there too.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got some work done today using a stripping disc today.
Done with using the discs now. Next I will blast the undersides, door jambs and anywhere else that wasn't practical to use the disc on. Everywhere that I did use the disc will get sanded with 80 grit on a D/A before priming. 








The metal looks really good.
No surprises other than a so-called body man drilled 3 holes in the passenger door to hold his filler skim coat to a couple of small door dings. 








A few hail dings in the hood but good other than that:








Just need a good day for an outside blasting session soon. There's rain in the forecast for the next several days so it may be awhile.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I removed, disassembled and blasted the door hinges in the cabinet. They are in perfect condition but and the bushings had very little wear. The d/s detent roller had just a little wobble in it but the p/s was good but decided I should replace them both. I ordered a kit from Inline tube that includes new pins, bushings and the rollers.








Got the holes in the doors welded up. I was able to hammer and dolly the area to get smoothed a little better too. Hit it just a tad with the shrinking disc as well.








I started on repairing the core support today. It was more complicated than I thought to remove the braces at the frame mount area than I thought it would be. There's a flange on both sides of the brace and on side if it is sandwiched between 2 other flanges and spot welded on both sides.
















I couldn't get my spot weld drill bit into this area so I had to grind them out.








The other side:








Most people would probably opt to buy a replacement core support but I'd rather repair it and have an original part. I like to keep original parts when I can. I don't have to worry about the fit and quality that way.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the core support repair finished.

Opened holes to good metal and squared off and cleaned up of rust around the edges. I blasted the brackets in my cabinet. I then made the patches out of 16 gauge sheetmetal.
















Patches welded in:
































Ground smooth and plug weld holes drilled in bracket:
















Welded in the brackets:
















Ground smooth and holes drilled. Took a while to make sure I got them in the right place. The holes on the frame that they match up to are 39" apart center-to-center. I tripled checked my measurements onto the core support before drilling. I drilled the holes out smaller and used a carbide burr the rest of the way.
































Next up is using a wire wheel to remove the undercoating from the inner fenders. I got a start on that today. It was put on thicker here than anywhere else on the car. I've already made a mess. Then I'll weld up the ugly access hole.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The core support is now ready for epoxy primer.

As I was prepping the core support for blasting using a wire wheel, I noticed this area was cracked:








That led me to check out the rest of it and I found some spot welds had broken loose and a couple of flanges the factory missed spot welding at all. Between that and the fact that one mount was completely rusted out, I'm sure the entire support was under a lot of stress. 
Got the welder back out and got it all corrected.
















































Got it blasted today:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:

Stripped the undercoating from the inner fenders with a wire wheel. Messy job.








Here's that ugly access hole:








Stitched up the wound:








Smoothed out the welding and then used a hammer and dolly followed by the shrinking disc. Took a while to get it right:








Underneath:








After blasting:








Underneath:








I had to do some hammer and dolly work on the valance panel. Used the shrinking disc too. It was pretty banged up all around the license plate area.








After blasting:








I now have everything blasted that needed to be done outside except for the convertible top frame which I will do down the road.
























Got some good news and some not so good news.

The good news is that the guy from the machine shop texted this photo to me today:








Looks fantastic!
I'm guessing he will be ready to get it running next week. I'll find out tomorrow as I'm going over there to drop off a couple of parts he had me order.

The not-so-good news is that my transmission is delayed. Art said that it will take about 6 more weeks. The special clutches he uses are on backorder. His supplier says it's because of Covid.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking great! I've been following your journey but I've forgotten what's the motor build and what HP is projected?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The engine is the original 400 that is now .040 over. Heads are the stock 62 castings. The new pistons are dished KB which should give it around 9.5 to 1. Lunati 10510702 cam. R.A.R.E. ram air exhaust manifolds with the 2 1/2" outlets.
I don't have any experience with Pontiac engines but I'd guess maybe 400HP? It will be interesting to see what the dyno says after he gets it broken in. I intend to be there when he does it.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sounds good! I'm running a 461 Butler with the same exhaust manifolds and 2.5 polished stainless Pypes system...pushing 500 hp


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Wow, nice!!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Thanks, what you're doing is incredible and I would not have the body skills or patients for that I'm ok with mechanical stuff. Saving and getting a second job for body and paint someday... here's a couple more pix of my past goats from 30 years ago and my current one I purchased in 2016 that I've had to redo just about everything.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> The engine is the original 400 that is now .040 over. Heads are the stock 62 castings. The new pistons are dished KB which should give it around 9.5 to 1. Lunati 10510702 cam. R.A.R.E. ram air exhaust manifolds with the 2 1/2" outlets.
> I don't have any experience with Pontiac engines but I'd guess maybe 400HP? It will be interesting to see what the dyno says after he gets it broken in. I intend to be there when he does it.



I think you should post a new post, "Guess How Much HP" and list your specs. This is always a fun one and see who gets the closest.

My guess is 365HP 460TQ


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Name that Dyno tune 385hp lol


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I was at the machine shop this morning. I asked him if he thought it would make 400hp. He said maybe. He also said from his experience EFI engines do better in the car than on the dyno because the oxygen sensor doesn't read as accurately when there is only a short section of pipe beyond where the sensor mounts.
Since the car is going to be a cruiser and some highway use, the outcome of what the dyno says isn't that important to me but I'm still extremely interesting in knowing. 
Wow Jim, 460TQ would be amazing. That's more than a Chevy LS3.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

That would be an interesting game and I'm curious to get everyone's opinion on how much if any increase in hp the changes I made to my Butler 461 but I'll start a new thread as I don't want to dilute this cool restoration thread anymore 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the fuel lines installed.

The Inline Tube reproduction fit pretty well with a little finagling. It helped that I took detailed photos of the original line before taking it off the frame.








I bent and installed the NiCopp 3/8" line on the p/s frame rail and mirrored the one on the other side. Since this line will be the feed for the fuel injection, I installed a fuel filter with a bracket using an existing frame hole. I didn't drill any new holes in the frame for the entire line. 
















This is an FI fuel filter with 16mm metric ends. They are very easy to get at any parts store. I have adapters ordered that will adapt the ends to 6AN so I will finish this up when I receive them. 








I'll use 6AN fittings on the supply line back at the tank and at the engine for connecting to hoses. This is the flare tool I use for the flares that these use:








This is where the fuel lines enter the engine area:








I will not use AN fittings on the return line. I'll just clamp hose onto that.
I'll will get a double line clamp to replace the zip tie:








Nothing from the machine shop this week yet.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got a text late today from the owner of the machine shop. My engine is on the dyno. Being set up to run I assume. I'm guessing that now that it's on his machine, it will be top priority to get it broken in and tested and off the machine. I reminded him to call me when he's ready for the test and I will keep my phone on me. I've got to assume it will be early next week unless there are any issues.

Also, the coil spring compressor I ordered a while back is finally off of back order and will be here Monday. I also ordered loaded and black powder coated brake calipers for the front and shoes for the rear and those get here Monday as well.

I received the adapter fittings for the fuel filter and got that done. I also installed the new bushings and rollers into the door hinges and blasted all the hinge bolts. Thread chased the bolts and nut plates as well.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I shipped off my dash to Just Dashes to get it restored. They will do my glove box door and ash tray as well. Their estimate is 4 months before I get it back.

I installed a line clamp on the fuel lines at the rear and also an AN adapter for the supply line. 








Received the coil spring compressor I ordered and got the front springs installed. It's an OTC 7045B and does work well and seems very safe. I got the front brakes installed as well.
After I installed the first spring, I realized how much easier it would be to use the tool if I had 1 1/4" ratchet wrench. I was surprised but Home Depot had them in stock ($25) so I went down and bought it before doing the 2nd spring. 
























I installed the brake shoes on the rear and finished that up this morning. 








I've now got a rolling chassis:
























Nothing from the machine shop this week about my engine. I thought it would be running on the dyno by now but I guess not yet.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I see I'm not the only one with twenty year old Dunlop rollers.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

At least we all have nice frames. I didn't assemble mine as a complete rolling chassis as I made it a rolling chassis with the rear end section as I wanted it, then dropped my body on it, and then did the front section rebuild/upgrades, and then welded in my side frame boxing set-up. Still have to do all the hard lines, but seeing it's resto-mod, I will install the gas lines and brake lines later as needed - still some decisions to be made.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

A little more info on the front coils spring tool should anyone be interested. Not inexpensive with prices ranging from $195-$240.00 depending on source. Not sure if this might be a tool you can rent at O'Riely's or Advance Auto. Looks heavy duty enough.

Manufacturer: OTC
Part No.: OTC7045B

*Front Coil Spring Compressor*


Fits most late-model rear wheel drive domestic vehicles in which the coil springs are between the upper and lower control arms.
Tool features four case-hardened, self-aligning plates to ensure correct load distribution under tension.
Includes two 3 3/8 inch ID plates and two 4 inch ID plates.
Will not work on Mercedes-Benz vehicles.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looks fantastic and what a clean professional looking shop but is the treadmill there so your wife can spend time with you when you're in the garage because I have a friend who's wife did that while because he was in the garage so much...made me think of that ha ha 😁


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I really need to proof read before I post 🤦‍♂️


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Jim, O'Reilly's, Advance and Autozone don't rent this OTC compressor. They do rent them but the reviews aren't all that great. It looks like the one at O'Reilly's might be better than the other 2 though. Plus with rentals, you never know what kind of condition you are going to get when renting. Yes, the OTC is relatively expensive compared to others out there but the reviews on them are excellent. After putting in a good amount of time researching, I decided this was the one I wanted to own. I've been lucky to not ever have anything bad happen with coil springs but wanted to own a good compressor before my luck ran out. 



Baaad65 said:


> Looks fantastic and what a clean professional looking shop but is the treadmill there so your wife can spend time with you when you're in the garage because I have a friend who's wife did that while because he was in the garage so much...made me think of that ha ha 😁


Thanks!
We both use the treadmill but if my wife uses it when I'm working in the shop, she watches TV with headphones on so my noise doesn't bother her. Actually, my wife doesn't complain about my time in the shop at all. She's busy doing things in the yard most of the time I'm in there and we cross paths often during the day. The yard is her thing and my car hobby is mine but we show each other our accomplishments at the end of the day.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> Jim, O'Reilly's, Advance and Autozone don't rent this OTC compressor. They do rent them but the reviews aren't all that great. It looks like the one at O'Reilly's might be better than the other 2 though. Plus with rentals, you never know what kind of condition you are going to get when renting. Yes, the OTC is relatively expensive compared to others out there but the reviews on them are excellent. After putting in a good amount of time researching, I decided this was the one I wanted to own. I've been lucky to not ever have anything bad happen with coil springs but wanted to own a good compressor before my luck ran out.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> We both use the treadmill but if my wife uses it when I'm working in the shop, she watches TV with headphones on so my noise doesn't bother her. Actually, my wife doesn't complain about my time in the shop at all. She's busy doing things in the yard most of the time I'm in there and we cross paths often during the day. The yard is her thing and my car hobby is mine but we show each other our accomplishments at the end of the day.


OK, was not sure if it could be a rental tool. I rented a couple different spring compressors for both my S-10 and '68 Lemans and learned not all of them work as needed and can be dangerous if you don't know. Learned that experience as some are for struts/coils, some for these smaller car coils, and finally, the type needed for older car coils. Problem is really that the person behind the counter hasn't a clue as what type is needed and just passes "their" rental tool off and says it should work even though "universal" is not universal.


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## nick rice (Nov 10, 2014)

Looking fantastic.. This is an exciting undertaking. It's great to start with such a clean core.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's been a while since I've posted an update but I have been working on various items.

I made the proper cut on the inner hood structure to be able to install the '68 style ram air hood pan and here it is mocked-up in place:








I used the procedure exactly as PurelyGTO68 documented in this thread:
1968 Ram Air hood pan installation - PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together

I also opened up the original hood scoops. I was surprised how much metal had to be removed. Got them blasted in my cabinet afterwards.
















I blasted both sway bars, painted them with cast iron engine enamel and got them installed. Installed the KYB Gas-A_Just shocks too.

























The front bar is the original 1" bar and I went with urethane bushings and the rear is an aftermarket bar which is also 1". 

Got the core supported painted today using SPI black epoxy primer:
















I did hear from the machine shop last Friday afternoon. My engine seems to be running well but he was having trouble with his electric fuel pump shutting down after a few minutes of running. So he wasn't able to do the dyno run yet until he solved the issue. I was there and took a short video. It does sound good so far. Oil pressure was excellent and the fuel pressure was right on until his pump would quit. After a few minutes of sitting the engine would start again and run fine for 2 or 3 minutes and then the pump would quit again.






I figured he would have the issue with his fuel pump solved on Monday but today is Wednesday and I haven't heard back from him yet. He knows I want to be there when he does the dyno run.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

nick rice said:


> Looking fantastic.. This is an exciting undertaking. It's great to start with such a clean core.


Thanks!
The more time that goes on, the more I think I was lucky to find this car. I'm having a blast!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It was a good day today!
I got a call from the machine shop this morning and he said come on down. He had done some dyno pulls on the engine and would do one more when I got there.
I was quite surprised how well it did. You can hear the shock in my voice: 





So 425HP at 5,000 RPM and 480 TQ at 4,100. 








Here's the engine specs again so you don't have to go way back in my thread to see them:
Original YS block bored .040
Original 62 cast heads with new valve job, valves and Lunati springs
Lunati 10510702 cam
Edelbrock Pro Flo-4 EFI kit w/ 29lb injectors and 58psi fuel pressure.

I just got home with it. My El Camino weighs a little more and my wallet a little less.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

The El Camino doesn't look bad either 👍


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Nice numbers, better than I had assumed. Should put a smile on your face and rubber on the pavement!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> The El Camino doesn't look bad either 👍


Thanks! I've owned it for over 25 years and did a major refresh on it a couple of years ago.
It's got a '96 LT1, 4L60e and 3.42 posi.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Here's my grandpa's 1970 I believe work vehicle they used to stuff me between the seats, it was a 4spd and zooming in I'm pretty sure it has the SS badging.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Cool photo. My grandpa wore pants like that too! I'm probably close to that age now but it's Levis in the winter, shorts in the summer and running shoes year round for me. Funerals and church too. Although I wear my best Levis and black running shoes for those things. The age has changed.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's home and the first time I've ever seen it there.
























I hope to get a transmission in a couple of weeks. I might reach out to Art Carr and see if it is still on track to get it then.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Check your center link to oil pan clearance unless you've already covered that, been a lot of talk about that here lately, looking good 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I've got about half an inch there but haven't turned the steering.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

What air cleaner are you using? Normally the oil fill cap goes on the drivers side and the breather tube on the pass side.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice, my '65 with a '72 block rubbed so I needed 1/4" spacers and it wasn't a fun job when everything is installed already...but yours is a later model so maybe that's why it's good.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

O52 said:


> What air cleaner are you using? Normally the oil fill cap goes on the drivers side and the breather tube on the pass side.


I am going to put the '68 style ram air setup on this. The valve covers on it aren't perfect so I'm going to buy a new set for it. I had told the guy at the machine shop that too so he knew they were temporary when he installed them.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Butler has some really nice choices, get some good breathers and maybe a Wagner pcv, found that mine looked good but didn't function well as I kept blowing the dipstick out making a mess, heard about the Wagner adjustable pcv here and modified my breathers, problem solved 👍


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Great restoration thread. Looks like you started with a pretty solid car. I love the results so far.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Butler has some really nice choices, get some good breathers and maybe a Wagner pcv, found that mine looked good but didn't function well as I kept blowing the dipstick out making a mess, heard about the Wagner adjustable pcv here and modified my breathers, problem solved 👍


Thanks. I'll keep this in mind for when the time comes. I'm guessing it will be a year or so until my engine gets run again.
I think I'll get those ARP bolts for the manifold too. Look great with an aluminum manifold. Thanks for that idea too.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

ALKYGTO said:


> Great restoration thread. Looks like you started with a pretty solid car. I love the results so far.


Thanks!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Thanks, ya I stuck with them everywhere except the exhaust manifolds, just something different than everyone but it cost me a fortune especially when you're buying 4" bolts for a serpentine belt drive, also needed to put some 12 point sockets and wrenches in the trunk toolbox so I didn't screw myself on a break down.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A lot of little updates:

First, I took the data from my dyno results and used google sheets to create a chart:








It's been over a week since my last post but have been spending at least some time on the car each day. A lot of that time has been for online research and ordering some things. After mocking up the new stock type starter I was given with the car, I decided I wanted to use a smaller gear driven type. Quarters just seem very, very tight with the original starter and the ram air exhaust manifolds.
I went with a *RobbMc Performance* mini starter.

I did a bunch of research on A/C to decide what I wanted to do with the entire system and made a decision on a compressor. I ordered a *Pro6Ten* from Old Air Products. This compressor is a bolt-in replacement to stock A6 type compressor and it allows me to use the original accessory brackets. It's a 10 cylinder vs the 6 cylinder A6 and doesn't require the use of a muffler like the A6 does. It also weighs less than half of an A6.

I also spent some time researching what I wanted to do for an alternator as I wanted an updated one with an internal regulator. I came across *this one from Quick Start* and had a long talk with the guy that builds them. I was impressed and went ahead and ordered one.

I got those front frame brackets corrected by welding the ground out area and then grinding them back to the proper shape:
Before:








After:








I've been working on the accessory drive on the engine. First this shows what I was given by the seller of the car as far as brackets and pulleys:
















I had quite a puzzle to figure out here. I found diagrams online and that helped a lot. I was able to determine that one bracket was missing and 2 of them don't belong to this car. I ordered the missing bracket (front alternator brace that bolts to the water pump) and also ordered the bolt, washer and spacer kit for the aluminum compressor bracket as those were all missing too. I have already received both of those. I blasted the 2 aluminum brackets and painted with aluminum ceramic engine enamel. I think they look better painted. I blasted and painted all the pulleys too. Here they are mocked up in place:








Old ugly alternator mocked up in place:








Some of the bolts were missing and some I want new ones for. I've got an order in for those that hasn't come yet so I mocked it up for now with some bolts I scrounged up.








I can't use this original bracket that I show laying there on the valve cover. There's no bolt holes in the Edelbrock manifold to mount it to. I think it will be just fine without it though especially since the compressor I'm going to use weighs so much less. I think the bracket is kind of ugly too.
Today, I sprayed SPI red epoxy primer on the 4 rear interior panels that I blasted a while back. I needed to get this done as I heard from Ames this week that the front seat foam that had been backordered was finally shipped off to me. I will take all this stuff down the interior shop when the order gets here.
























Ready and waiting for a transmission:








I did talk to Art Carr this week to get a status. He said he was waiting for a call from his supplier to give him an update on the clutches he needs and he will let me know when he hears. He says they previously said by the end of the month.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking good, I have a mini high torque starter too because it is tight in there also the starter wire tube wouldn't work so I wrapped the wires in the silver heat wrap and put some over the solenoid and a layer in between that and the block. No serpentine belt system ?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I used the CVF system it was cheaper and not as gaudy as the March.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks. While I've never been much for the bling of aftermarket pulley setups, I did give all the ones available a look over including the set you have. When I was first researching A/C compressors, I studied the Sanden ones. It appeared to me that all Sanden compressors with a V-belt clutch head are the dual belt type that have to leave only one of them used on a Pontiac. I didn't like the look of that so that's when I looked at serpentine setups. You are right in that the one you have looks the least gaudy but when you add the A/C stuff, it doesn't look as nice as yours does. When I read about and looked at every review I could find on the Pro6Ten, they were all excellent and it checks all the boxes.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A couple of things done:

I got the frame brackets and core support center bracket painted with SPI black epoxy primer. Also, I wasn't quite happy with the way I had laid down the epoxy on the core support so I sanded and resprayed just the top.








I had dismantled the original power steering pump about a week ago and it appeared fine inside so I decided to rebuild it instead of replace it. The original case was really dirty but in excellent condition so I would have reused that either way. So while I was waiting on the Gates kit I ordered to arrive, I blasted the case and the front portion of the pump and painted them with ceramic engine enamel. I cleaned all the inside parts with lacquer thinner.
I received the rebuild kit late afternoon so I will get this all back together tomorrow. Already installed the shaft bushing before I quit for the day.








Just an interesting note -
I cleaned away the portion on the old alternator where the numbers are to be able read them and was pretty shocked when I realized it was the original to the car. The part number is correct and the December 5th, 1968 date code is 4 months prior to the April 4th '69 car build date.
So since I'm saving original parts to the car that I'm not using, I will store this away with the other stuff. OTOH, I guess I don't need to save the A/C compressor I got with this engine. It is not the original.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Pro6 ten on mine love it


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Good to hear. All the reviews I've seen have been great.
My intention is to use R134a and use a new evaporator and parallel flow condenser. I'll also use the reduced diameter hoses that I will build myself. I've read that an evaporator for a 90's Chevy full size pickup will fit the A body case like a glove. I like the idea to be able to use an orifice tube and do away with the original expansion valve.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Accessory drive complete.

I received both my new Pro6Ten compressor and my new hybrid alternator and finished up with the installation today. I also bought some new silver cad plated grade 5 bolts for installing these and the power steering. I have not received the mini starter yet.
































I decided to go ahead and order new valve covers, oil cap and ARP stainless bolts for both the new valve covers and the intake manifold and should receive those this week. 

Excellent news too. My transmission was shipped today via FedEx Freight. Delivery estimate is next Monday.

I did receive the bucket seat foams at the end of last week and got them and the metal rear panels down to the interior shop. He said he probably wont get to them for at least another couple of weeks but he knows I am in no hurry for them. I do have new headrests for the seats that I received from Ames but I need to get them painted with vinyl spray paint since they were only available in black. I just ordered the supplies from Ames and should get that this week too. Adhesion promoter, white base coat and Metallic Parchment for the color.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Transmission arrived today.*

It took 3 months plus 1 week to get but it finally got here today:
















































Art acquired and sent everything I should need including a Lokar throttle bracket specifically made for the Edelbrock ProFlo 4 and a Lokar TV cable. 

I got a few things done few days while I've been waiting for the transmission to get here.
Figured out a way to mount my coil. The original bracket won't work with the Edelbrock intake. I found something cheap that worked perfectly. It's a #4 rigid conduit holder. I used one to mount the fuel filter on the frame rail too. I've used them on a few other cars in the past too but never for a coil. I bet no one ever notices it's not an automotive part.

I also did a failed test with the Parchment vinyl dye paint that I bought from Ames in order to paint my new headrests to match my interior. I talked to Ames on phone about the match before I bought the cans and they guy said even though they make the paint to match the PUI brand of interior I should be able to match the Legendary as well. Well no. It's not really even close. Just way too yellow. So, I did what I should have done in the first place and call the place Legendary recommends called Kolor Korrect. The woman I talked to was very helpful in knew all the answers. Expensive though. $280 but it is guaranteed to match. I ordered pints instead of spray cans. She says if you are a painter, the pints are a better way to go. She also confirmed my choice. Legendary is hands down the better quality interior versus PUI. 








I installed the ARP stainless bolts for the intake manifold and the valve covers. I did get the new valve covers from Ames but I decided not to put them on now. Better to wait until one of the last things to avoid getting any scratches in them. I neatened up the spark plug wire routing too. I also installed a new Milodon 180 thermostat. 
















Tomorrow I plan to bolt up the transmission to the engine. I figured I should read all the instructions that Art sent first so I will do that this evening. My wife did help me lift the transmission over the frame rail and onto the transmission jack. Good to go but I will need to raise the frame up a bit to get the engine high enough.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looks great ! That's a keeper if she can lift half a trans, my wife ran the jack when I put the four speed in and helped bleed the brakes 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Looks great ! That's a keeper if she can lift half a trans, my wife ran the jack when I put the four speed in and helped bleed the brakes 👍


I should have taken photos of her lying down in the trunk when she helped me hammer and dolly the welding shrinkage after installing the quarter patch panels. She is a really good about helping me when I need it. 


I got the transmission mounted and put the dip stick tube on it too:








When I put first put the yoke in the transmission, it wouldn't slide all the way in. It bottomed out on the inside and left about 1- 1/4" gap between the shaft seal and the yoke shoulder. I called Art and he said yes, he has those made up and they are long and have to be cut off. So I cut 1-1/4" off and now it will slide all the way in. This photo shows how much gap there will be when the u -joint is installed:








It's at 5/8". Less gap than with the stock Turbo 400 even though the 200-4R is 1/2" shorter transmission because the head of the yoke is larger. Another thing I didn't know is this yoke fits a 1350 u-joint so it requires using a conversion type u-joint. I had bought 2 new stock u-joints. I guess I should have asked Art before I did that. Stock u-joints are type 44S/3R so today I ordered a Spicer 5-3205X which is a 1350 - 44S/3R conversion.

I received some fuel fittings I had order so installed the fuel lines at the engine. I'm not a fan of the braided hose bling so I'm using Gates Green Shield fuel injection hose with Earls Vapor Guard AN fittings. They work perfectly together. I opted to use Oetiker ear clamps as I think they look better than screw type clamps. Supply is on the p/s and return on the d/s. 
















I used a screw clamp here. I didn't use a fitting since there was a bead on the end of the tube. Using an ear clamp here would mean having to get a cutting tool down there to remove the hose.









I got shipping notices today on the vinyl paint I ordered for headrests and for the RobbMc mini starter which has been on backorder for the last 3 weeks.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Boy that's a good wife, don't think mine would hold a dollie in the trunk but she does go to all the shows with me 👍 Are you using a stock drive shaft with all that hp + torque ?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

That was my plan. I'm not going to race it. Not sure I'll do any smokey burnouts either but I will hit it once in while. With an automatic, do you think using the stock driveshaft is a bad idea?
My guess is that this same driveshaft came Ram Air IV cars. I know they did with the Ram Air III, stick and automatic.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Idk have to ask the experts here, guess it depends what kind of tires and if they hook up, do you have a high stall speed? You know you're going have some fun with it otherwise you wouldn't be building it 👍 ...you probably have a posi rear and I don't know the gear ratio, are you doing any traction control? I think if you don't hook up you'll be fine but Pontiac = torque 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

3.55 posi and 2200 stall. 200-4R has a 2.74 first gear opposed to the Turbo 400 of 2.48. Probably Radial T/As for tires.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> 3.55 posi and 2200 stall. 200-4R has a 2.74 first gear opposed to the Turbo 400 of 2.48. Probably Radial T/As for tires.


Don't think you need to worry about it. You will probably spin off the u-joint straps on the rear end or blow apart the front u-joint cradle on the rear end - did that on a 1977 Chevy station wagon with its big wide tires and warmed over 350CI as I tried to do a burnout going up an incline. Driveshaft was fine - just had to replace the broken rear end u-joint cradle and twisted straps.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice! Idk automatics to well does it have over drive?Probably fry those tires especially with no traction additions idk but someone smarter than me here could weigh in about the drive shaft. I have a Strange drive shaft with 21 spline forged 1350 yokes from Summit, was 500.00 delivered, I'm running a 12 bolt 1350 yoke ,Eaton posi, Strange axles 3:42 with stock springs, KYB gas adjust shocks, 1" anti sway bar, triangulation bars, boxed upper arms, South Side Machine lower lift bars...all pretty concealed unless you crawl underneath.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the driveshaft painted with epoxy primer and installed:
































I installed the Lokar throttle valve cable. I used a length of heat shrink tubing on it in the area where it is near the spark plug wires. 








This Lokar throttle bracket is made specifically for the Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4 and is perfect. It has a provisions for the TV cable, throttle cable and a cruise control. I got the TV cable adjusted and it was pretty easy to do with this setup. 








I got the RobbMc mini starter installed. I really like this starter. It was so easy to install because it is so small and so light. Very simple to rotate the solenoid anywhere you want it too. No shims were necessary. The lash is .016" and gear clearance when disengaged is 1/8". 
All kinds of room vs a stock starter:


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Nice! Idk automatics to well does it have over drive?Probably fry those tires especially with no traction additions idk but someone smarter than me here could weigh in about the drive shaft. I have a Strange drive shaft with 21 spline forged 1350 yokes from Summit, was 500.00 delivered, I'm running a 12 bolt 1350 yoke ,Eaton posi, Strange axles 3:42 with stock springs, KYB gas adjust shocks, 1" anti sway bar, triangulation bars, boxed upper arms, South Side Machine lower lift bars...all pretty concealed unless you crawl underneath.


Nice!
Yes, the automatic I'm using is a 200-4R. These were used by GM for lighter duty applications than the 700R4 but were used in the Buick Grand National which was a 13 second car. Art Carr beefs them up and I chose his 500HP version. It has a 2.74 first gear and a .67 overdrive. It is really has better ratios than the 700R4 does. It also was made with both a BOP and Chevy pattern and the 700R4 was only made in the Chevy pattern.
So the first gear torque multiplication with my 3.55 rear would be equivalent to a Turbo 400 with a 3.92 rear gear. I don't think an aggressive stall speed is needed considering that number.
With the overdrive, it would be the same as having a 2.37 rear gear with a non-overdrive.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Roger, what size wheels are you planning? 
There has been some issues with the BF Goodrich tires (white letters turning brown) since they moved production to Mexico.
Diamondback Tire has a great selection with your choice of sidewall. 






White Wall Tires & Custom Redline Tires - Classic Car Tires Online


Diamond Back Classic Tires is an online tire shop that creates custom tires for classic cars. Diamond Back creates white wall tires, redline tires, blueline tires, goldline tires and other vintage tires for pre-1976 vehicles including Corvettes, Mustangs, prewar cars, postwar cars, European cars...




dbtires.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I'll take a look at those. At this point, I was thinking I would go with 15s. Either 15X8 all the way around or 15X8 in the rear an 15X7 in the front. I will not consider going with 17s. I'd go with original 14s before I would do that.
I really don't care that much about raised white letters so I may consider Coopers and turn the letter side in. I've read that they are a better tire than the T/As. 

As far as wheels, I'd like to keep the original look but I would really like aluminum. The only aluminum I can find that kind of has the look is the American Racing VN501.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Good choice ha ha, but I did a little customizing....7" F 8" R


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Did you see the wheel visualizer on American Racing's site ? Boy the wheels were a tough choice.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yes I did see that. 
Tell me about those caps. I like those a lot.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

They are a bubble decal I found online and you can pick the size then just stuck them over the AR decal, I try not to have manufactures labels showing all over the car, they were from the Ukraine and came in black too and pretty cheap. I bought both colors then cut up the black ones for my breathers and air cleaner, I'll look up the site and try and post it but it was one of the only ones I found.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Ah I see. Great find! 
I found some other bubble decals that I used on my El Camino on ebay somewhere. Yes if you can find the info on where you got yours, I'd appreciate it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I haven't done any research on whether 15X8 wheels pose any issues on the front of these cars. I do see that these VN501 wheels are only available in zero offset which is 4.5" backspace for 8" wheels.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Can't help you there but there is a good measuring tool on their site also, the center cap decal site is 3dcarstickers.com they are one eBay also, I can look up what mm I used and I would have went one mm bigger for the AR cap.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Went with the Rally one for the spare and found a redline and I liked the later model lug nut....I guess mines a mild restomod.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for that info. Yes, I'd appreciate that measurement too. I guess I'm leaning towards these wheels.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ok mine are 40mm but 41 would be perfect 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks much Mr Baaad!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yesterday, I painted the 2 small covers that go on top of the rear side panels. I did this for a trial since it is easy to remove and start over if I had to. Already had to do that with the paint I bought from Ames that did not match.

The paint from Kolor Korrect matches just about perfect. I put on 2 coats of base and 2 coats of the Parchment metallic which is mostly a clear. I used my small Iwata LPH-101 paint gun for both.








Since I was totally happy how those came out, I went ahead and painted the headrests today. I wiped down the vinyl with denatured alcohol first and then applied a coat of Bulldog adhesion promoter. Kolor Korrect said this is the only brand that can and has to be used. Since the headrests were black, I sprayed on 3 coats of base. Looked fine after 2 but I put on the 3rd for insurance. Then the 2 coats of the metallic clear. I am very, very happy how they turned out:








In the shade:








And in the sun:








Unlike the originals, these headrests are totally covered with vinyl underneath. So, I'm not going to use the plastic bottom covers as they are not necessary.

The 2 pints of paint delivered were $280 and the Bulldog adhesion promoter was $30. Add in what the reproduction headrests cost it totals out to $460. Not cheap but I see no way around it unless a person considers covering. My interior guy advised against that.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

That's my interior color, love that iridescent parchment..my '67 had it back in the '80s and now my '65 ,that's one of the reasons is bought this car was the interior, I also did the dash in that color instead of black. I used a rattle can parchment then purchased the iridescent clear coat..love it.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

This winter I found these seats with more bolstering that match perfectly, they came with head rests but that's not correct for 65 and once I put the holes in the seats they have to stay so idk.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I rolled the frame into my other workroom and got the body set down and bolted on. Before setting it down, I stretched wrapped all the underneath portions of the frame and suspension. I wrapped the driveshaft but not across the u-joints so I can still roll the car. I cut holes in the shrink wrap for the body mounts.
































This is the repro firewall body mount bracket that I had to replace due to rust-out. As you might remember, I had to modify this bracket to get it to fit in the right place and it wasn't easy. Even though I measured and re-measured before welding it on, It was nice to see when I saw it line up perfectly and not need any shims.








I marked the body bracing before I removed it all just in case I could help someone out who might need them. It's probably a slim chance though since shipping alone would be more expensive than the cost of new steel.








So now it's on to completing the bodywork followed by the primer and paint process. I don't figure that's going to go quick. I'm going to try and make all the gaps as perfect as I can and I figure that's going to require some welding. Plus I foresee a lot of time alone to fit and finish out the front bumper.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's looking like a car again: 
























My wife says my car matches my hair color. I guess she's right.
That last photo makes it look like I might be getting it close for being aligned. Except for the doors, it's not even close. I can see a lot of hours for me to get it right. Updates are going to be a little slow for awhile. 

I made a nice score on ebay last week. Texas allows the use of year of manufacture license plates for cars registered as classic or antiques. I found a set that had never been on a car before. I never expected to be able to find a perfect set like these are. Only had to pay $75 for them too.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's been 10 days since I posted an update but have been working on fitting everything from the doors forward almost every day since then. I am happy with the progress and how things are fitting but still have a lot to do. 

I started with the doors and everything keys off of those starting back to front. First thing was getting the rear edge and bottom gaps correct and got that done fairly fast. Then came the fenders and hood which pretty much have to be done at the same time. This took a lot of time but I did get a pretty good result.

Today I did a first stab fit of the nose and I was surprised how well it fits at this point. And, I did not have to do any alterations in any of the frame bracket slots. (The ones I had to repair because they had been torched out by someone.)

Here's photos of it all as of now:
















































There are places I will need to build up with flexible epoxy on the nose and a few places I will need to sand it down for a perfect fit as is always the case. Not a whole lot though. Better than I expected. And btw, I do intend to have the nose and fenders meet flush. 

I have the fender to hood gap on both sides perfect but will need a little work with primer and a bit of skim coat for blocking level. 
I'm pretty happy with the new hood hinges I got from Ames. They seem high quality and stout and the spring tension is just right. 
I did have the common issue where the d/s wiper hits the rear edge of the hood and this had been rubbing when I bought the car too. I took care of that by changing the rear edge contour. It didn't take a lot to give me 1/4" of clearance there and it didn't change the looks from the top at all.

Here's photos of the p/s door gaps:
















I will need to do a little welding to close the door to fender gap up just little from the mid section of the door up. Lower part is good.

I don't think the driver side door to fender gap will need any welding. It's looking really good but I have to do more level adjusting down in the area of the fender patch panel. It's sucked in a little so I will have to make a relief cut in the bracing to be able to get it right. No big deal but I'll have to take the fender back off to do.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Wow looks like it would pass a marble test now 👍 ...so do you mark all the mounting points for when you take it apart for paint so it goes back in the exact place?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Wow looks like it would pass a marble test now 👍 ...so do you mark all the mounting points for when you take it apart for paint so it goes back in the exact place?


It's a great fit for not having made any modifications. I didn't expect I would be able to get it this close. Shows that I really did get a good car that hasn't been hit in the front. But to reach my level of satisfaction, there is still a lot of work to do.

Yes, I'll drill some 1/8" guide holes through the hood hinges to help me get those back in the same place later. Doors will be no problem since I will pull the pins to remove them. The hinges will be painted in place. I'll bag all the shims and label where they go.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

As I said in my previous update, I needed to take the d/s fender off and correct the curve to the bottom part in the area where I installed the patch panel. Actually I had to R&R it twice. The first time to make a couple of relief cuts in the support bracket then reinstall and bend it a little to fit and then the second time to weld up the relieve cuts. 
As I thought, it did come out perfect and the gap is good top to bottom and level to the door good as well:
















When the hood stays on, and you're removing a fender, the hood hinge has come completely off. I drilled some 1/8" guide holes to help me get the fender back in the same spot. 2 through the lower part of the hinge near the 2 bolts to the fender and one in the fender bracket to cowl. 
















I made that hood prop bar a couple of projects back and it comes in handy. It's a piece of aluminum tubing with rubber walking cane tips on both ends.

My target for all the gaps is from 5/32" to 3/16". I won't let primer coats build up enough to allow them to get closer than 5/32". I can sand the primer off all the way back to metal before my final coat of primer if I need to. My final coat will be epoxy primer. I made the hood to fender gaps 3/16" and won't let those get closer. I installed the 4 rubber wedges that go on the sides of the fender during this process and found that it's better to keep the gap at 3/16" to allow those to fit and not push the hood up.

I'll show better photos of that one area where I will build up metal to close the gap. It's needed between where I have place the shims all the way to the top. You can see it's pretty wide in that top section. It's just right from the shims down to the bottom.








This is the only place that is more than 3/16". I put shims in the widest place and it measures 9/32" 








I'll also weld a bit on the top edge portion of the door to even up the arc around the end of the fender.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I've been working on the door to fender gaps more and level matching as best as I can get at this point. I also mocked up both the GTO fender emblems as well as holding up the rocker moldings in place. Doing that showed me I needed to work both fenders a little more in the area where the patch panels were welded in. I used the shrinking disc some on both sides. On the passenger side fender, I had to twist the inside fender brace a little in order to get the rocker molding to sit flat. I also had to re-drill the holes on that fender for the emblem. They got welded up when I fixed the dent and the previous repair job there.

Here's the area where I welded to close the gap and correct the door to fender edge arc:








And after:
















Welding shrinkage did cause the edge of the door to suck in a little which is normal. I used my slide hammer with this end on it to hook behind and pull back out. 








Here's the rear door edge now after a little more adjustment on the level.
I make sure the door edge isn't any lower than the quarter panel as I don't want a very high build of primer at the edge. OK to have the quarter a bit lower though since it's not a problem to have a primer build up some there.








On the driver side, I did weld a very small amount to make the top of door edge match the fender arc perfectly. 
























I'm seeing a nice look down the sides of the car now even before primer:








I'm now happy with all the gaps and levels of the hood, fenders and doors and I'm calling them ready for primer. So now on to the nose and trunk lid next. I'm still waiting on the delivery of the 3M flexible filler for the nose so I'll start on fitting the trunk lid tomorrow.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice job you are truly talented 👍


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....to bad you're so far from northern Illinois or I'd have you body and paint my car 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Nice job you are truly talented 👍
> ....to bad you're so far from northern Illinois or I'd have you body and paint my car 👍


Thank you for the compliment!
Nope, I don't to work for others for compensation. But, I'd come over to your place and show you and then put the tools in your hands to get you started! 
🍻


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Impressive work. GM would envy you


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

aseyc said:


> Impressive work. GM would envy you


Thanks! I will be super interested in following your thread when you start your restoration. If you ever come through Texas, Drop by. I'll give you the steel I used for the body bracing and lifting of the body. I marked where each piece goes before I dismantled it all.

Update:
I hadn't posted any close-up photos of the nose fit yet. 
It does look very good at a little distance:








But here are the areas that will need some filler:
































I went back and re-read what Barry (owner of SPI) recommends for Endura bumpers (and he's done several of these). He recommends 4 coats of epoxy primer and it should be done before any filler is put on. 

Since blasting the bumper left it a little blotchy looking (may have been the coal slag media I used), I I sanded it with a D/A everywhere I could get to and by hand everywhere else to get it all uniform looking. And then I wiped it down with waterborne W&G remover. After that, I put it out in the sun to speed up the evaporation of the W&G remover that soaked in. Barry recommends that if you are going to shoot the epoxy the next morning.

Here it is in the sun yesterday. I also took a few photos of what appears like cracks in the rubber.
































After analyzing them closely, I don't believe these are cracks at all. You can't make the rubber move independently on each side of these cracks no matter what you do. I think this is what happens to the rubber from oxidation when the paint cracks and allows air to hit the rubber along the cracked paint. You can hit this rubber with a hammer and it won't crack. But the slightest flexing of the rubber cracks the factory paint and primer. Add time and you get the oxidized rubber that looks and might even feel like a crack but it's not.
That tells me these cracks don't need to be ground out in a V shape and filled. I've seen that stated and I disagree. The 4 coats of epoxy will be all that's required to cover them up. 

I got the 4 coats on this morning. Waited 45 minutes between coats.
Wow! It seemed as if I was painting a sponge with the first coat! Starts looking good after the 3rd coat though. I can see why he recommends 4.
















I sprayed the rear side too.








I'll let this cure for a couple of days before blocking and adding any filler. I had to re-order the 3M Automix 05887 flexible filler but it will be here tomorrow. The first order (AutoBodyToolmart) had it backordered until December and didn't let me know until I called and asked why I hadn't received it yet. I wont ever order from them again.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I'm not doing any body work I leave that up to an expert, just like I don't do heart surgery.. only had a year of body shop experience as my first job in 1983...I'll do everything else, mechanical, interiors 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the nose fitting done.

This is the 3M filler I used. I bought the applicator as well:








I did not use those mixing tubes came with since I only needed to use a little at a time. I did end up using more than 3/4 of this 200ml cartridge but about as much gets sanded off than stays on the nose.

First thing I did is apply some to the insides of both sides of the nose to stiffen it up some. The rubber flexed there more than I wanted.








I used masking tape behind it to help hold in the filler until it hardened.

So here it is all done. Quite a few hours of work.
























































After those photos, I removed the nose to smooth out the areas where I had squeezed in filler on the back side where the nose meets the fenders.

I also removed the passenger fender and mocked up the inner fender and A/C evaporator housing. I wanted to see why a previous owner cut a hole in the inner fender. I don't know why Pontiac assembles the car this way but they way that did it requires that the fender and inner fender to be removed just to get to one nut that is screwed onto a stud that holds the inner housing where the heater core is. So I made a modification. I removed the stud from the inner housing and then used JB Weld to attach a bolt to the outer housing. Problem solved. Now the nut will be on the inside and have easy access.








I am going to put in a new heater core. Even though it had been replaced in the past, it looked like it had been in there a long time. I'll replace the blower motor as well. I'd rather have new since the fender has to be removed to replace. Plus the wheel is rusted badly.

I took the outer housing apart and removed the evaporator. I'm going to replace it since it's the 52 year old original. Doesn't look like a whole lot of air could get through it. I bet the A/C wasn't working too well the last time it was used. I wonder if it was leaking slowly. Not sure how that oily dirt would get in there if it weren't.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looks like show gaps to me, ya that heater core is a mess...uhg don't remind me of the heater core access my '65 has a small leak I can smell but no dripping yet, I would like to hold off until I get it painted and they remove the fender because that does seem impossible to get to those bolts, what were they thinking ? Really tempted to find a good stop leak product but still afraid of messing up everything else, it started when I switched from a 13 lb cap to a 16 lb.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Looks like show gaps to me, ya that heater core is a mess...uhg don't remind me of the heater core access my '65 has a small leak I can smell but no dripping yet, I would like to hold off until I get it painted and they remove the fender because that does seem impossible to get to those bolts, what were they thinking ? Really tempted to find a good stop leak product but still afraid of messing up everything else, it started when I switched from a 13 lb cap to a 16 lb.


Thanks!
If you don't need your heater, I'd suggest bypassing the core and blowing air through it to get the coolant out. May avoid a surprise of wet, stained and ruined carpet until you can get the core replaced.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Don't use it but removing the lines and capping the water ports is some work and will look ugly, it must be a pin hole and is evaporating because I check all the time and no water in the cockpit yet... know of any good leak stop products that won't hurt the rest of the system?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Color choice:

I have been struggling for a long while whether to keep this car it's original Liberty Blue or change it to Matador Red. I have finally made the decision and the red is my choice. I know there will be some here that think this will be a mistake but I have some reasons.

Number one is that although I do have quite a bit of painting skill, painting an all over job dark metallic is something I haven't done before. I'm not sure I can do it perfectly. Plus when doing a metallic, it's important to paint the base on all the panels in the same day and in the same orientation as the car will be when assembled. Since I prefer to paint the car with the panels removed, I do not have the space to be able to do them all in the same day and orientation. 

Number 2 is that my wife really likes the red better than blue and she has frowned every time I mentioned I was going to paint it Liberty Blue. As for me, I really like the blue and think it's one of the best blues of all. But I like very dark Matador Red just as well. I've always liked it. The kicker is that I know if I choose the red, it will come out perfect and if I went with the blue I'd have to paint the car with the panels mounted which I don't want to do and even then I don't have total confidence that it would look perfect.

So anyway the decision is final. It will be Matador Red. I've also made a decision on what paint to buy and it will be SPI Dark Red base coat and their Universal Clear on top. I will also use the SPI red epoxy for the last coat of primer under the base.

Btw, Pontiac Matador Red is the same as Chevrolet Garnet Red, Buick Signal Red and Oldsmobile Crimson Red. All have the same code and formula for 1969. 
I knew Barry was trying for an exact match of Garnet Red when he was developing the color for SPI Dark Red back in 2016. I asked him recently if his final formula did turn out to be a match for Garnet. He told me back when he was developing the color, he had ordered quarts of Garnet Red from 3 different manufacturers and all 3 were a little different so really he couldn't definitively give an answer as it would depend on the manufacturer of what you were comparing his to. Another pro on the SPI forum told me that he went to a concours type show where there were 2 '69 Garnet Red Camaros side by side both claiming to be original colors but yet looked different. He also said one of them was dead on to SPI Dark Red. 
So the answer is really a subjective one but I can call SPI Dark Red is Matador Red and it is not a misleading thing to say. I spent the time asking this question as I wanted to be able to respond to anyone that asks without being misleading about it being a color that although isn't the original, was an available choice from the factory.

Here is an SPI Dark Red paint card that SPI sent me. I took of photo of the card in several under several different lighting conditions. I also compared the card to every red I could find around my shop and the card was a darker red than every one of them.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Roger do what makes you happy 👍 Mine was originally Adriatic Blue bat was not a big fan of that color. Not it is a green gold shade which the women love the color on it


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Hey your dime your dance floor, it will look great  My '67 was Regimental red if I remember but my '68 was more orange so someone painted I know.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)




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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:

Removed front end panels.

Trial fitted inner fenders. No issues there just wanted to check to make sure that my install order for my final assembly after paint didn't present any problems.

Block sanded all of the nose.

Reworked both fenders at the patch panel area. The style lines were not as straight from front to back as I liked. It was hard to see but I wanted them better. I'm very satisfied with them now.

Re-assembled the front end panels. I really wanted to pull it apart and re-assemble anyway just to make sure I could get everything aligned exactly the same way as I had it. It does take a while but I was successful.

Here's a few photos of it assembled again. I tried to take photos at an angle that shows the straightness of the lower style lines well. 























































I also starting working on the trunk area and started with filling the factory quarter to trunk filler panel where it was leaded originally. As you might remember, I beefed up the factory welding with new multiple passes.
I started with applying SPI epoxy primer using a brush and allowed it to dry overnight. Then I appled Evercoat short strand fiberglass reinforced filler. It also has kevlar in it to add strength.




























After applying the filler and sanding smooth:



















Next, I installed the trunk lid panel and got it lined up and level best as I could. I did use a hammer and dolly a bit on the edges of the panel for level matching. It didn't take a lot. There was one place that was just a bid too wide on the panel for the opening. From the factory, the passenger side edge wasn't quite straight and caused the gap to be too narrow in a section. I sanded it down to make it straight. This did go through the skin that wraps around the inner structure so I welded it closed and ground back smooth again:








I also added a little more filler to the to get a good gap where the previous leaded seams were. Here's as it is now:
























































The list is getting shorter of things that need to be done before getting the entire body in primer. I need to fit the trunk lid trim and quarter extensions to make sure everything fits as it should. I'm waiting for delivery on the extension for the passenger side. A member here is sending me one and it is en-route. I also need to order more primer and will do that this weekend. In the mean time I'll start using a D/A with 80 grit on all the panels to get everything scuffed.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

It was never that good from the factory, you'll be on the concourse tour soon 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for the compliments! It makes it a lot easier for me to do a good job since I have a blast doing this stuff.

I ordered primer and some sanding supplies that all shipped today. I bought more SPI epoxy primer and some their Turbo primer which is a 2K urethane. I also ordered some Evercoat Slick Sand polyester primer. 

I also ordered a new paint gun for exclusively for spraying polyester primer. It's an Iwata Airgunsa 3.0 mm tip gun. A saw a youtube video of a guy using one of these and saw how it sprays so much faster than the 2.2 mm primer gun I had been using for it. Here it is if anyone is interested:





Everything should be here by the end of the week so I may be able to lay down the primer over the weekend. First will be 2 coats of black SPI epoxy primer and then the Slick Sand the following day. I will only spray it where I think it needs a higher build, not the entire car. After I block sanding the polyester primer, I'll spray the entire body (except for the nose) with the Turbo 2K primer. The nose only gets additional epoxy primer since it the only primer that remains flexible. 

I got the body all prepped with a D/A using 80 grit and cleaned the dust off the car and out of the room. Kind of has that DeLorean look now.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:

I removed the nose to apply primer to it separately as I don't want to get any polyester or 2K urethane primer on it. Want to have only epoxy on it as it stays flexible. I put it back on the saw horses and applied 2 coats of white epoxy followed by 2 coats of black. I used white so I would be able to see if I blocked through the black. The next day, I block sanded it all and then sprayed 2 more coats of black on it. So 6 more coats in all. 
























I then used a combination of stretch wrap and plastic sheeting to make sure I wouldn't get any overspray on the engine and front suspension when I primered the body.
















Yesterday, I sprayed 2 coats of black epoxy primer over the entire body.

























I now know where all the door dings and hail damage is! I knew it had some but I didn't know it had this many! No big deal as this is the time to get them all filled. It sure made my patch panel butt welds look a lot worse too!

My original intention was to spray polyester primer at this point but I changed up and decided to use filler before doing that. 

So here is how it looks as it is right now:
































After I get this filler work done, I will spray epoxy primer again and then I will be ready to spray it with the polyester.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

You can't hide from the BLACK truth seeker...that's why my friend did his '66 Fairlane garage job in white. How does painting go with your humidity, are the products adjusted for that, doesn't that affect painting greatly?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yes black shows everything and black epoxy is the best to use for the early coats of primer. I wasn't complaining how it looked but it still is a little surprising.

Humidity hasn't been a problem for me except having to be careful not to drip any sweat on the car. It feels humid to me here but we aren't anything like Houston.

Progress of late:

I spent a few days filling all the door and hail dings I could find. I also block sanded the entire car with 180 grit. I then used a bit of filler in places to help with panel level matching. 
















Yesterday, I sprayed 2 more coats of epoxy primer on the entire car.








And today I sprayed Slick Sand polyester primer on all the metal worked areas and to help level panel transitions. Heavier in the areas of the patch panels.
























Then this afternoon, I set the car back down on the wheels. Panels will move a bit when the car is on jack stands so it's better to block sand everything in when it's on it's wheels. I also re-installed the front bumper. 








I started sanding the driver side quarter with a long board and 80 grit and I can already see it's going to need another application of the polyester primer here. You can see where I sanded through to the epoxy primer.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's been a relatively long time since an update but I'm slow on this part of the process. 
After sanding all the polyester primer that I showed in that last update, there were still a few areas that needed another application of it and I sprayed that on last week. After sanding that, I discovered that I still had issues in the shape of the top of the quarter panel wheel openings. I just didn't have both sides looking the same shape. I had sanded the driver side a little too flat in the middle of the opening. And I discovered I had a bit of a bulge in behind the center top of the passenger side opening and this was a bit of a setback as I knew I was going to have remove all the primer build to move that in. I wished I had noticed it earlier in the process.








This high spot was caused from over planishing the welding shrinkage when I installed the patch panels. I used a pick and file to knock it in. I have found the best way to do that is with a pick hammer held against the metal and tapping it with another hammer. You can see all the dots where it was hit. For a file I used 80 grit on a firm sanding block. I also used ink for a guide coating in that process. 
After a couple coats of epoxy (yesterday) and an application of spot filler this morning:








And after applying polyester primer to both sides:
















Hopefully, I can get these quarters sanded and get them shaped properly now. I am really going to take my time and pay attention to my sanding technique.

The good news is that the rest of the car is ready to move on to spraying with 2K primer for the final finesse block sanding. I'm only using epoxy to sand in the front bumper and I've got that nearly perfect now. I sprayed more epoxy on that the top part yesterday.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking great, at least you caught it now instead of when the color was going on👍 I remember my dad showing me how to get the oil can out of my '67 fender heating it with a torch, stabbing it with a pointed body hammer and cooling with a wet rag to shrink it...he restored his '32 Ford to perfection himself even finding the glycerin paints they used in the '30's


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks and yes, it would have been really bad if I had missed this all the way to paint. Not a big deal now. I've already got the P/S good and just a little more blocking to do on the D/S before that's good. I didn't catch this earlier for a couple of reasons.  One is that it was much more evident when I got it all smoothed out with primer and the other is that I'm studying it much harder in this stage too. The side shapes on this GTO are complicated and a lot different from any car I've done before. It has 2 cigar shaped protrusions on each side (cigars that are pinched on both ends). One that starts on the front fender and ends about 3/4 the way back on the door and one that starts about 6" back from the door edge on the quarter panel and ends at the rear of the quarter. The pinched ends of the protrusions have to be sanded-in with blocking at an angle to make sure the shapes maintain the pinched ends of the shape correctly.

Cool '32!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So after blocking both quarters, I was very happy with them and ready to move on and get it prepped for a complete application of epoxy primer followed by the 2K urethane primer. 
I sprayed the epoxy yesterday. I used red oxide this time only because I had more of it on hand than black. My intention was to only spray one coat but I saw a couple of areas where it didn't reflect quite right so I sprayed a second coat just on those areas so I could lightly block them before spraying the 2K. One spot was high up on the p/s quarter over the wheel opening and on the p/s of the hood towards the middle.

After spraying the epoxy yesterday:
















This morning I blocked the areas where it didn't reflect well and could see that would be correctable very easily with the 2K. It doesn't take much of a low or high spot to make a panel not reflect well. I used sanding blocks and just barely moved it over the panels just to reveal any flaws I might have missed. I did find a few and used just a small amount of spot putty on them.

I sprayed on the 2K urethane primer this afternoon. I'm using the SPI's Turbo Primer which their fast curing one. I put 2 coats on the entire car and then a 3rd coat only on areas that I thought might need a little extra build. I taped off the bumper. It's looking very good to me at this point. I'll start blocking it tomorrow with 180 grit.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

It's looking flawless, must be getting exciting, is the color next?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> It's looking flawless, must be getting exciting, is the color next?


Not flawless in those photos but much closer after it was all blocked. Still a lot to do before I get to painting. 

I got all the 2K urethane primer block sanded with 180. I did go through to the epoxy primer underneath in several places. Because I thought I had the body very close to perfect, I decided not to spray more urethane and to just finish out the block sanding in epoxy primer and I sprayed on 2 coats.

I took these photos soon after spraying as it does dull quite a bit after drying and I wanted to show how the cigar shapes on the sides looked. It's still not as shiny as paint so it may be hard to see though.

I think it's looking really good at this point and my intention now is to get the epoxy all block sanded with 320 grit. I may need to apply a bit more epoxy to spots if I encounter any defects I see. Once that process is finished it will be time to remove all the panels from the car and start prepping for paint.
I will epoxy prime the cowl area, w/s frame, door jambs and floor before I start any painting though.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

roger1 said:


> Not flawless in those photos but much closer after it was all blocked. Still a lot to do before I get to painting.
> 
> I got all the 2K urethane primer block sanded with 180. I did go through to the epoxy primer underneath in several places. Because I thought I had the body very close to perfect, I decided not to spray more urethane and to just finish out the block sanding in epoxy primer and I sprayed on 2 coats.
> 
> ...


Roger hell of a job! Those gaps are perfect 👍


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Hey Roger how's the progress, any red sprayed?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

pontrc said:


> Roger hell of a job! Those gaps are perfect 👍


Thank you!



Baaad65 said:


> Hey Roger how's the progress, any red sprayed?


Not yet, but getting closer. I called SPI to order the paint yesterday but they are having supply chain issues getting their resins and won't have the base or the clear in stock until next week at the earliest. But, I still have things I can keep busy on.
I removed all the panels from the car and primered the floor. After block sanding the quarter panels for what I thought would be the last time turned out not to be. I wasn't totally happy with the reflections I was seeing along the top of both sides. So, I've had to spray more epoxy on both of them. I've got some more block sanding to do on them tomorrow. and I think I will be satisfied this time.
I did order and receive the flat black paint that I'm going to use on the top of the dash. I think I will go ahead and get that done while I'm waiting on the red base and clear to get here.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I got the quarters block sanded and I really like the way they reflect now. The only thing the quarters need now is a reduced coat of epoxy primer to fill any sand scratches I might have missed and I'll do that at the same time that I prime the door jambs and area around the trunk perimeter.

Yesterday and today I worked on prepping the top of the cowl, w/s frame, dash top, door jambs and trunk perimeter areas for epoxy primer. Some of those areas had quite a bit of dry primer over-spray on them that needed to be taken off. I also brushed on some epoxy primer on top of the original seam sealer that was used on the cowl and also into the trunk seal channel where spraying won't get into very well.

















I'll spray black epoxy on the cowl and dash top and finish the dash top with matte black single stage urethane that I bought from Summit. I intend to start on that process tomorrow.
Then I intend to spray red epoxy primer (reduced by about 15 - 20%) on everything else.
If I get those things done and my paint order from SPI is delayed further, I will start on prepping and painting the trunk floor. However, my original plan was to get the paint done on the body first and then do the trunk floor.

Other news:

Just Dashes has shipped my dash and I'll get it on Wednesday.

I ordered a new fuel injection ready gas tank from Tanks Inc. along with a Walbro fuel pump and gauge sender kit. It has already been delivered. It's powder coated with silver and looks great.

I ordered a set of Dakota Digital VHX gauges. 12 week delivery time.

Ordered a rebuilt tilt steering column from Gary's Classics. 3 to 4 weeks.

Ordered a new rear bumper, aluminum Cold Case radiator and stock type sport steering wheel from Ames. Radiator will take a few weeks to get. Everything else was in stock and have been received.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> I got the quarters block sanded and I really like the way they reflect now. The only thing the quarters need now is a reduced coat of epoxy primer to fill any sand scratches I might have missed and I'll do that at the same time that I prime the door jambs and area around the trunk perimeter.
> 
> Yesterday and today I worked on prepping the top of the cowl, w/s frame, dash top, door jambs and trunk perimeter areas for epoxy primer. Some of those areas had quite a bit of dry primer over-spray on them that needed to be taken off. I also brushed on some epoxy primer on top of the original seam sealer that was used on the cowl and also into the trunk seal channel where spraying won't get into very well.
> 
> ...


Looking great ! Far be it for me, but doesn't working from the inside out make better sense ie the trunk and interior? Just curious and did you ever look at Speedhut gauges, you design them any way you want and they weren't to expensive, 800.00 on sale for mine the way I designed them and that's with all the sending units, shift lights, GPS speedo with 60' time, 1/4 mile, altitude, clock and a dimmer, I love them.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks. I don't know anything about Speedhut. First time I've heard of them. Looks really nice on your dash though. I'm just a fan of Dakota Digital. I've been using their products for quite awhile. I have their VHX gauges in my El Camino and it may be the single best mod I've done to that car.

As far as painting the trunk, I think either way works but I just envisioned it easier to mask off the body and paint the trunk than to mask off the trunk and paint the body.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

That's true but I just wouldn't want anything to happen to the paint job going in and out of the interior or trunk, just a thought but I've never done one so how would I know. I looked at Dakota but it just seemed to modern so I wanted something more traditional looking and the choices they give you to design them is incredible also they have warning lights you set for minimum and maximum readings, can even get quad gauges. I know you ordered yours but it's worth it to browse their site some really nice ideas. Then I saw how someone mated the gauges to the back of the '65 dash so they stayed recessed and it worked perfectly on mine.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

This is the one I ordered:


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Yesterday, I sprayed the top of the cowl, dash top and w/s frame with black epoxy primer.
















This morning I sanded the primer on the dash top with 400 grit and then sprayed 2 coats of the Summit brand single-stage urethane matte black paint.
I am very pleased with how it turned out.
























I had previously painted the VIN tag with a spray can of flat black and had it taped off for priming and painting the dash. I didn't want that many coats of primer and paint on the VIN number as the thickness would cause the numbers to lose their distinctness. 








Good news and not so good news:
I called SPI today and they said they got their resins delivered and are planning on mixing batches of both the red base and clear coat I have on order. They will call me tomorrow to confirm when they will be shipping to me. The not so good news is that the paint booth filters I had on order hadn't even been shipped yet. (They had let me know by email but it went into my spam folder.) Supply chain problems with that too. They couldn't guarantee when they would ship so I cancelled that order and called some other suppliers. I found one that said they could have them to me in 2 weeks so I ordered them. I am anxious to start painting red paint but I still have things I can do while I'm waiting. I may end up working on the trunk floor. I need to get the proper spatter paint though. I haven't bought that yet. Not sure what is the best to buy for that either. 

I think I will drop by my local auto glass supplier tomorrow and order a new windshield. It will be interesting to see if there are any supply chain issues with that.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking good, ya there's problems getting anything and everything it's probably on a container ship that's parked..never have seen it so bad, going on be an interesting Christmas of gift cards.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I am getting much closer to being ready to start painting. My paint order arrives via UPS today. I'm still waiting on my paint booth filter order though and hopefully that will be next week.
Yesterday I sprayed the door jambs and perimeter of the trunk opening with epoxy primer and sprayed the quarters again as well for a final uniform coat to seal sanding scratches and a couple of small sand-throughs. I reduced the epoxy by 15% so it would lay down a little more slick. I will wet sand it all with 500 grit.
I tried to get the best reflections on the quarters I could for these photos. I am very happy with the way they reflect now. 
















































I had some left over activated red primer from yesterday so I decided to spray the trunk floor with it. It does have some rust pitting. I'm not sure how much the spatter paint hides that. The anal part of me wants to smooth it out real nice with some filler but not sure if it's worth the effort. I will be using a mat.
I did order a quart of spatter paint today from The Parts Place.








Next I am going to move the car into my other stall so I can get the this room prepared for spraying paint. I'll scrub the walls and floor with soap and water hose it all down. I'll wet sand the car outside and will continue working on the trunk floor if I'm still waiting on the paint booth filters.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

roger1 said:


> I am getting much closer to being ready to start painting. My paint order arrives via UPS today. I'm still waiting on my paint booth filter order though and hopefully that will be next week.
> Yesterday I sprayed the door jambs and perimeter of the trunk opening with epoxy primer and sprayed the quarters again as well for a final uniform coat to seal sanding scratches and a couple of small sand-throughs. I reduced the epoxy by 15% so it would lay down a little more slick. I will wet sand it all with 500 grit.
> I tried to get the best reflections on the quarters I could for these photos. I am very happy with the way they reflect now.
> 
> ...


Looking great. Making some real headway on it. Here is a suggestion on the trunk. I am doing the body on my brother's 1948 International box truck. Not trying to restore it by any means, just make it a good presentable vehicle without going hours crazy on it.

I like to use the Dupli-Color Truck Bed Coating, black textured finish. The can says "impact resistant & abrasion resistant." It is more a matt/shiny black and it dries textured and is some hard stuff. I am using it under the hood, inside the wheel wells, interior diamond plate floor, and bumpers.

This might be something you can put down on the trunk floor to cover the pitting and seal the trunk floor. It'll have a fine texture to it. Then go over that with your trunk spatter paint to cover. You might just want to sample the above method on a piece of sheet metal just to see how it looks. I think you may like it.

I got my spray can at Advance Auto.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks Jim. That is a good idea and have done similar to that on a couple of other projects I've done. But not the Duplicolor brand. However, I don't think I will do that on my GTO trunk. Yesterday, I applied some Icing filler on the deeper pits and then sanded them along with the rest of the epoxy primer. It's looking much smoother now and with the next coating of epoxy primer (black this time) followed by sanding again, I think most if not all of the imperfections left will be hidden with the texture the spatter paint will give after that's applied. 
A note here is that there isn't any rust on the bare metal. I removed it all when I blasted the trunk so it is just the left over pock marks that I'm filling and smoothing out.
One thing I will say that working on the trunk floor is hard on the lower back!


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

_"One thing I will say that working on the trunk floor is hard on the lower back"_

How much I understand you on this buddy... The only difference is that I'm still in my early 40s.......

Working on a car (ex. Engine) with your back bent for some time means days of pain and discomfort. Had slip disk operation 9 yrs ago and you never go back to how you were..


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Sorry to hear you are having issues at that young age. I've been pretty lucky but at 66 the muscles get sore and stiff a lot easier now than they used to.

So I've now worn out my fingers but do have the trunk floor looking a lot better:








I called The Parts Place today to check on the status of my order and they said their spatter paint is on back order due to supply chain issues. He said I should get it in 2 more weeks. Oh well, I'll find something to keep busy on while I wait for this and the paint booth filters.

I did roll the car out today. So next I will start the clean up on the stall to prep for painting.








I took off all the plastic sheeting and stretch wrap too. It was loaded with dust.
After seeing it in the sun, I'm still very happy with the way it is reflecting.
































I'll roll the car back into the sun for the next few days to help speed up the cure of the primer before starting to wet sand it.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Here's some things I've done since my last post:

I made a decision and ordered an exhaust system. 
I went with the *Magnaflow Street Series* crossmember back kit. It's a stainless 2 1/2" system. This week I saw a *'69 GTO on BaT* that had that system and it convinced me that was the same route I wanted to go. No supply chain issue on that. It will be delivered next week.

Since I will soon be installing the A/C evaporator box on the body followed by the inner fenders, I ordered a new evaporator. I had read on a Chevelle forum that an '85 Chevy pickup evaporator fits inside the A body case. I liked that idea because it allows the use of an orifice tube and accumulator versus an expansion valve and POA. I think it will look more clean under the hood and I'm using an A/C compressor that can work in a cycling system with no problems. I also ordered a new blower motor and squirrel cage and the application for that is for the rear A/C in a '95 Astro Van. A few others on the other forum have done that and say it fits fine and has more blowing power than the stock motor.
















I had mentioned before that the front valance for the car must have hit parking stops multiple times. I had done quite a bit of hammer and dolly work on it before the front end mock up but it still needed some more to get ready for primer. I got that done, shot a couple coats of epoxy primer on it and then applied a skim coat of filler to it. Here it is after sanding the filler:








Then sealed again with 2 more coats of epoxy yesterday:








This morning, I applied 3 coats of 2K urethane primer and then moved out into the sun to speed up the cure. Then this afternoon I sprayed 2 coats of epoxy on the inside of it.
















I applied epoxy primer to the insides of the fenders using a brush. 2 coats applied with a day in between each coat.








I got the inner fenders done with epoxy over the last few days as well. I started out with 2 coats of epoxy on the undersides followed by 2 coats of 3M undercoating. I then sprayed a single coat of epoxy over the undercoating.








Then yesterday, I flipped them over and sprayed 2 coats of epoxy on the top sides. Today I sanded them some using 320 along with some scuffing with maroon Scotchbrite. I then sprayed them with 2 coats of 25% reduced epoxy primer. They are now ready for installing.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looks great! This thread should be converted into a restoration guide👍 I just hope you're not afraid to drive it and get it dirty because I would 😉


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

roger1 said:


> Here's some things I've done since my last post:
> 
> I made a decision and ordered an exhaust system.
> I went with the *Magnaflow Street Series* crossmember back kit. It's a stainless 2 1/2" system. This week I saw a *'69 GTO on BaT* that had that system and it convinced me that was the same route I wanted to go. No supply chain issue on that. It will be delivered next week.
> ...


You're going an awesome job - this car is going to last into the 22nd century with care.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

integrity6987 said:


> You're going an awesome job - this car is going to last into the 22nd century with care.


Thanks! I hope so. 

I sprayed 20% reduced epoxy primer on the doors and underneath side of the trunk lid today. Tomorrow I will spray the top side of it. All the panels will then be ready for the final wet sanding with 500 grit. 

Over this past week I sprayed what I thought was the final application on the hood and both fenders but noticed reflection flaws that I didn't see before. Very minor but required blocking and a re-application of reduced primer. I blocked those areas using 400 and guide coat again after the 2nd application as well. I'm happy with everything now.

Great reflections on the doors. No problems there. 
























I've got the other panels out in the sun to bake the primer well.








If the trunk lid is good to go after spraying tomorrow, I will start getting the work room cleaned up to prep for paint. I did receive the spray booth filters late last week so I've got everything I need now. 

It shouldn't take long to get the quarter panels wet sanded. I've had the car outside to let the sun bake the primer during the day and covering with a tarp at night to keep the dew off.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I see red but in a good way!
Finally laid on some paint.
Here's what I've done since my last post:

I totally washed down the inside of my work room using a garden hose and brush on a pole. The ceiling and walls too.

Wet sanded the body using 500 paper and then washed it down inside and out using Dawn soap. I then blew it dry, moved back into my paint room and let a fan blow on it for a couple of days.

I then put together my filter wall frame and attached the new spraybooth filters to it. Then attached it to the garage door frame using a foam rubber seal.

I then masked off everything really well around the body. I used plastic to make a skirt around the body to keep overspray from getting to anything underneath. I taped the skirt to the floor.
























Spraying base:

First, I sprayed on a single 35% reduced coat of SPI epoxy primer to use as sealer. The purpose of this is to get better adhesion of the base coat.
After spraying that I waited an hour to start spraying the base and I sprayed on 3 coats.
















It went pretty well but not perfect.
Relatively smooth and didn't get any runs but I died get several dust nibs. Not horrible but more than I hoped for with my filtration setup and steps I used. Most seemed to be on the top surfaces and not large. I called Barry at SPI for advice after the second coat of base. After discussing a few things he advised me to ground the body and spray a 3rd coat then do a bit of sanding out of the nibs after waiting overnight and then spray some more base. He said I could spot spray if I wanted to and feather the spray out around the areas.
I had pounded in a length of rebar several years ago for grounding to many years ago and I luckily found it, hooked up a wire and then sprayed the 3 coat.
Here's a close-up of some of the nibs:








So I did exactly what Barry said and the next day (yesterday) sanded the nibs using 1500 grit paper and spot sprayed more base over the areas. It's best to wait until the next day to spray the clear after base so waited until today to shoot it.

Since it was chilly this morning, I waited until noon to get started. I sprayed on 4 coats which will be plenty for a full color sand and buff if I choose to later. It went well. I have some dust nibs but I don't see color to them at this point. I think they sand and buff out just fine. No runs either. I am both relieved and happy. I love the color and can't wait to see it out in the sun and at dusk.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> I see red but in a good way!
> Finally laid on some paint.
> Here's what I've done since my last post:
> 
> ...


Looks great 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks guys!
Here's a few additional photos from today:
























I'll work towards painting the doors and fenders in the next paint session. I will have to wet sand them and use Scotchbrite on the door jambs first.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Progress this week:

I got several of the body panels wet sanded and scuffed and set in the workroom for paint. While wet sanding the d/s fender I noticed 2 small low spots and sanded through to the urethane primer in both areas. I did get the low spots out but needed to spot spray epoxy primer over both areas.
I wanted to get the underside of the hood painted before wet sanding the top and got that done. Sprayed 3 coats of 25% reduced black epoxy primer.
















Yesterday, I sprayed epoxy as a sealer followed by 3 coats of base on all the rest of the panels (just the bottom side of the trunk lid).
















And today I sprayed on 4 coats of clear on everything except just 2 coats on the underside of the trunk lid. Just 2 coats on the door jambs as well since these areas wont get color sanded and buffed.








































































So all that remains to paint are the tops of the hood and trunk lid and the d/s fender, trunk lid hinges and the hood scoop inserts. It looks like the weather will be conducive for being able to get that done this coming week.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking great! That is certainly bright red, they'll think you're the fire chief driving around 👍 So do you paint the interior black or is it staying that way?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks! I'm keeping the Parchment interior. I think the Matador Red with Parchment is a really nice combination. I'm staying with a white top too.
With this red, it really depends on how much light there is (and camera exposure) to how bright it looks. It's a fairly dark red and looks very dark at dusk and at night. I really like that effect.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice, I was thinking more about the primered interior structure is that staying this way or getting paint black?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I'll leave it the way it is. I don't see a need to spray what can't be seen when it is already protected.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Done painting!

I sprayed epoxy sealer and base yesterday and then sprayed the clear today.
All went pretty well except for a couple of sags on the hood with 1 little run. I sprayed the clear just a little too heavy on one of the 4 coats.
I believe I will be able to sand them out OK. I think I'll try spreading a thin coat of glazing putty over and around the sag and then sand. When the putty is sanded it off so is the sag and run. I haven't done this before but I heard it works very well. 
















































Other updates:

I stopped by the upholstery shop this week and they are going to get my convertible top ordered. His preferred brand is Robbins and has been buying from them for many years. I project it will be next summer before I'm ready to take the car down there but better to order stuff early with all the supply chain issues going on. He hasn't gotten the seats done yet but it sounded like he would get to those in a month or two.
I also ordered door panels, convertible top boot, well liner and a few other items from Legendary. They project it will be August before I will get the panels! I didn't expect quite that long of lead time.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I don't see any runs, looks great and now you're probably going to hold your breath and almost be naked around the car to not cause any damage putting it together 😉 Are you going to assemble then cut and buff, seems easier that way idk.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I don't see any runs, looks great and now you're probably going to hold your breath and almost be naked around the car to not cause any damage putting it together 😉 Are you going to assemble then cut and buff, seems easier that way idk.


Here's the 2 sagged areas on the hood:
















As it hangs the sags are in the upper right and lower left.
These are the only sags that I did on the entire job. Hanging the hood probably made it more difficult for me to keep at the correct distance with my spray gun.

Also here's a photo that shows a bit more orange peel and a spot where I color sanded a bit. After I shut my exhaust fans down a bug must have come in and landed on the door there. It came right out easily using the 1000 grit paper. As you can see the orange peel flattens right out as well.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

You'll get it figured out and can't wait to see it buffed, going to look amazing. I guess laying the hood flat would prevent sags but also harder to reach, you might have to walk around it, being up right you can chase the overspray down.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Easiest way to deal with sags/runs is to use single edge razor blades. I learned this trick from Kevin Tetz's "Paintucation" videos.
The process:

"Drag" a single edge razor blade in one direction over some 1000 grit paper a few times. What you're doing is creating a burr on one side of the edge.
Slightly bend the razor blade into a gentle curve so that the burr you just made is on the "outside" of the curve radius.
You've just made a small plane. Gently drag it over the sag/run until you've levelled it with the surrounding paint. With each pass you should see that you're shaving off a very thin layer of paint.
When the blade quits cutting, make another one.
Repeat until the sag is gone, then continue with color sanding/cutting/buffing.
Putting that curve into the blade makes it really easy to control the cut so that you're only touching the high spots and helps make sure you don't dig the corners of the blade into the paint.

Works great.

Bear


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

BearGFR said:


> Easiest way to deal with sags/runs is to use single edge razor blades. I learned this trick from Kevin Tetz's "Paintucation" videos.
> The process:
> 
> "Drag" a single edge razor blade in one direction over some 1000 grit paper a few times. What you're doing is creating a burr on one side of the edge.
> ...


Sounds scary but if you say so...I would be practicing on the neighbors car first 😉


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yeah, it does sound scary - but it really does work great and it's a whole lot easier to control than sanding is.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It does sound scary to me. I'm going to have to find some youtube videos of that process. Just don't know if my hands are steady enough to put a razor blade on paint. I've also heard a nib file can work well for this and might look into that too. 
It does seem to me that using the glaze trick might be the most fail-safe route. Looks like a slow process but I've only got 2 areas to deal with. I did stop at the local auto body supply store yesterday and bought a tube of Dolphin Glaze.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I know Kevin demonstrates it in his videos, but I haven't found a public copy of that yet. There's a YouTube out there of a different guy doing something similar, but he does it differently. His method isn't nearly as good or as effective as Kevin's. He doesn't put a burr on the blade and he doesn't bend it into a curve. Both of those are key to the process. 
If you want to try it, make an intentional run on a piece of plywood or something that doesn't matter and experiment. 
I did it to fix a couple spots on my GTO, my very first ever attempt at painting a car, and it worked great.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Bending the blade to put a curve on it makes sense but I don't understand about what you call putting a burr on the blade and what difference that would make.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Imagine the extreme sharp edge of the blade - "just the tip". Now imagine that whole edge, just the tiniest few thousandths of an inch, pushed slightly "sideways" after dragging it at a slant over the sandpaper. That's the burr I'm talking about. Now, if you bend the blade into a very slight U shape, so that the burr now is on the "outside" edge of the U, you can drag it over the run. Because of the curve shape, only a very small section of the blade will be in contact with the paint, and again because of that curve, the corners of the blade will stay safely up and away from the paint surface.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

OK. Good explanation. It's a visualization you can make in your head but wouldn't actually see without a microscope.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

BearGFR said:


> Imagine the extreme sharp edge of the blade - "just the tip". Now imagine that whole edge, just the tiniest few thousandths of an inch, pushed slightly "sideways" after dragging it at a slant over the sandpaper. That's the burr I'm talking about. Now, if you bend the blade into a very slight U shape, so that the burr now is on the "outside" edge of the U, you can drag it over the run. Because of the curve shape, only a very small section of the blade will be in contact with the paint, and again because of that curve, the corners of the blade will stay safely up and away from the paint surface.


Idk what kind of blade you're talking about the little one wrapped in heavy paper around the blade? but they seem to brittle to bend, I've broken many of them just saying.


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## dadspackard31 (Dec 2, 2019)

I have one of these. When I painted my Packard (Single Stage Paint) I had some runs and bugs that landed in the paint.
It worked pretty well knocking down the run and getting the bugs out
Nib file


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

The trunk floor is painted. 
I mixed up black epoxy primer with a bit of white to match the gray color of the spatter paint. 








I waited an hour and then sprayed the spatter paint. I bought a quart from The Parts Place and used most of it. I'm pleased with how it turned out.
























I got the rear wheel wells undercoated using the 3M spray can stuff. I then sprayed black epoxy over it to seal it. Same process as on the front inner fenders I did a while back. 








Got a few things done on the interior. I installed the sound deadener on the floor. This is a Auto Customs Carpet kit and is like what is used stock. I used a heat gun to help it mold to the floor. I also installed the stock type of firewall insulation from the The Parts Place and it fits pretty well.
















I decided to use an aftermarket in dash stereo by RetroSound and have that on order. For the front speakers, I bought a kit for a GTO from Classic Car Stereos that mounts in the stock dash speaker location. It fits well but I did have to modify it a bit.
















I bought an upper dash insulation pad kit from Ames and will install that next. 
That glues on the metal in that area you can see between where the speaker mounts and the top of the firewall insulation pad.

I installed the trunk lid hinges and torsion springs. I blasted and painted the springs with cast colored paint. 








Since I had to grind off the rivet ends of the hinge pins to remove the hinges for painting, I had to devise a way to reuse them. I ended up welding a stud to the end so I could secure the pins with a washer and nut.








I've been working on a few other things too. I'll be updating again soon. I've also been spending a lot of time ordering parts. I'm trying to get the majority of things I'll need to complete the car. 
After closely inspecting the original wiring that came with the car, I realized that most if it was really unusable. I decided to go with an American Autowire Classic update kit. I've used them before and I like the quality.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking better than factory that's for sure! Isn't it fun assembling when everything's clean and painted. I used a Retrosound stereo too 👍


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

I wasn't aware that the dash frame could be removed!! Good to know as it makes it easier to sand blast it.
Congrats for the build. Coming up really nicely and as most people are saying on here... Surely better than factory.
Keep up the good work.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> The trunk floor is painted.
> I mixed up black epoxy primer with a bit of white to match the gray color of the spatter paint.
> 
> 
> ...


So forgive me for questioning but I like to learn, why wouldn't the wheel wells and trunk get painted before the body so you wouldn't have to cover the whole car and or risk scratching the finished body? I would think work from the inside out no?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

No apologies. It certainly can be done either way but I didn't have any trouble doing it the way I did and found it easy. 
I rolled the car just outside, papered it off and sprayed both the trunk and the wheel wells starting after lunch and was done by 5PM. I only papered about 2 feet around the perimeter of where I was spraying and didn't worry about covering the floor of the car. Overspray past a couple of feet is just light dust and not much if any of that at all spraying outside like I did. As far as scratching, I don't see any issue with that either. As long as I'm careful with tools and clothes, we are only talking about the micro scratches you get from dragging masking paper over the painted surface with a bit of dust that has settled on to it. Not an issue since I am going to color sand and buff the car as one of the last things before it's ready for the road.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Several things done since my last post.

I mocked up the A/C evaporator case for a test fit with that later style evaporator core I bought. No good, the accumulator wouldn't clear the inner fender. 








I then did a lot of studying of other newer style cores that might fit. It took me a while but I found a perfect fit for a core for a Chevy van application. It's a Four Seasons 54281 and has the same sized core as the original GTO core with an outlet that will allow an accumulator to clear perfectly. 








My original squirrel cage fan was rusted badly so I bought a used original from Paul (68gtoMN) over on the PY forum. It was perfect and just needed to be blasted and painted. I mated it to a new blower motor from Napa.








Here's the case mounted permanently: 








I changed the way the factory did the ground wire for the blower motor. I used 10 ga. wire and connected it to rivet nuts I installed. 








I installed the upper dash insulation, Y defrost duct (also acquired from Paul as my original was disintegrated), accelerator pedal, brake pedal assembly and e-brake assembly. 
















I also installed the wiper transmission, new wiper motor and washer pump and new power brake booster.








Reinstalled the original data plate:








Here's a photo of the Lokar throttle cable:








It worked out perfectly with the original accelerator pedal rod arm. I just had to modify the connection at the top as you can see here:








Today I installed the tail light assemblies. I'm about ready now to see how well the new rear bumper from Ames will fit.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking fantastic! Did that blower motor have oil ports or is it a sealed bearing? Looked like an inducer motor on a furnace. I still find it funny that convertibles have a/c 😉


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Looking fantastic! Did that blower motor have oil ports or is it a sealed bearing? Looked like an inducer motor on a furnace. I still find it funny that convertibles have a/c 😉


Thanks!
Sealed bearing. As far as I know all car blower motors have sealed bearings.
Btw, I misspoke about the application of the newer style evaporator that fits perfectly. 
These are the applications for the Four Seasons 54281 evaporator according to Rock Auto:

BUICK REGAL 1977
BUICK RIVIERA 1979-1985
CADILLAC ELDORADO 1979-1985
CADILLAC SEVILLE 1980-1985
CHEVROLET EL CAMINO 1977
CHEVROLET MALIBU 1977
CHEVROLET MONTE CARLO 1977
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS 1977
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SALON 1977
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME 1977
OLDSMOBILE TORONADO 1979-1985
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 1976-1977
PONTIAC LEMANS 1977


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Disassembled, blasted and painted the intermediate steering shaft and then installed a new boot seal. I just need to pack with grease and install the new retaining clip to finish it.








I had to use my press to remove and reinstall the round pin in order to get the boot on. And what a pain it is to install the clip that holds the boot on the shaft. 








I've pretty much got my dash ready for installing in the car. All new bezels, new A/C deflectors, original HVAC control with a new fan switch, new lens and lever knobs, the Dakota Digital VHX gauge set and the RetroSound Daytona Motor 4 stereo receiver unit. 
































RetroSound doesn't make Pontiac knobs for this receiver. And they design it so the stock bezels can't be used. I knew this before I bought it but figured I would somehow be able to make Pontiac knobs and bezels work with it. I had to make several modifications and fabricate new mounting brackets but was able to do it. I also had to use other style rear knobs that RetroSound makes that would fit and allow the controls to work correctly. It took me a lot of time to figure it all out but I am happy with how it turned out and looks.
















I've got quite a bit of the dash wiring done and started the engine wiring too. I did several modifications to the American Auto Wire dash and engine wiring harnesses to tailor it to the Dakota Digital gauges and the Edelbrock fuel injection system. I also mounted the control boxes for both. 
































Got the inside HVAC box installed with a new Spectra heater core inside.








My wife helped me install the windshield today. 
We first set in in place so I could adjust the rests at the bottom and get some marks to help lining it up. Then removed it to install the ribbon seal tape.








Installed:








Removed the alignment marks and cleaned:


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Again... WOW...looking great, you could open a restoration shop 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So I did a test fit on my dash and found an issue. 
The dash speaker kit I bought isn't going to work. The speaker on the driver side wont clear the center A/C duct. Bummer, the place I bought the kit from (classiccarstereos.com) said the it fits a GTO with A/C but it does not. I was impressed with the company however. I called them yesterday and they told me they would give me a complete refund and pay for the return shipping. Without the original box and after 2 months too. 

So I already decided to go another route and ordered this speaker from RetroSound: 









Triax™ Deluxe Dash Speaker 4" x 10"


RetroSound Triax™ Deluxe dual voice coil speakers offer exceptional audio reproduction for the absolute best audio quality possible from a single speaker location. Designed for optimal performance in any classic vehicle, these dual voice coil speakers produce a stereo mix from a single speaker...




www.retromanufacturing.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> So I did a test fit on my dash and found an issue.
> The dash speaker kit I bought isn't going to work. The speaker on the driver side wont clear the center A/C duct. Bummer, the place I bought the kit from (classiccarstereos.com) said the it fits a GTO with A/C but it does not. I was impressed with the company however. I called them yesterday and they told me they would give me a complete refund and pay for the return shipping. Without the original box and after 2 months too.
> 
> So I already decided to go another route and ordered this speaker from RetroSound:
> ...


Well that's good of them in this day and age, I have that same speaker powered by the head unit only to put some sound up higher while all the other ones run through my Rockford Fosgate amplifier. My BT radio is from RetroSound.


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## slingshot (Aug 22, 2021)

Have been following your resto thread. Impressed would be an understatement... would love to swing by someday and check out your ride. I am not too far away in Abilene. Keep up the amazing work.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

slingshot said:


> Have been following your resto thread. Impressed would be an understatement... would love to swing by someday and check out your ride. I am not too far away in Abilene. Keep up the amazing work.


Thanks!
Absolutely. Drive your GTO down if you can, I'd like to see it.


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## slingshot (Aug 22, 2021)

That might be fun. Unfortunately it's not near as nice as yours...


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Won't be too much longer for the big reveal!! Great work!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Progress:

I received and installed the RetroSound front speaker.
It fits but it is very tight quarters in there when the dash is installed and did have to move it forward from center for it to clear the center vent duct.
In addition to the bracket, I used mounting tape on top of the speaker to keep it securely in place. 








I stuck the camera up in there to get a photo the best I could with the dash installed. It is almost touching the duct on the driver side end of the speaker.








Installed the front to rear wiring harness into the factory channel that is formed into the floor sheetmetal. I didn't use the factory vinyl conduit. I decided to encase it in duct tape instead. 
















In addition to all the wires that ran to the back from the factory, I added a pair rear speaker wires, a 14 ga. wire for the fuel pump power and a twisted pair wire for the gas gauge as Dakota Digital recommends.

All the wiring at the dash is now complete except for the radio. I did decide to install a power amp and ordered THIS ONE yesterday. My plan is to mount it to the back of the glove box. 

Got the steering column installed. I bought an original GM tilt column from Gary's Classics out of Athens, TX. I'm extremely happy with it. You would swear it is brand new and not rebuilt.








Also installed the intermediate steering shaft that I had rebuilt.








Cleaned, lubricated and installed the shifter. I modified the shifter for usage with the 4 speed 200-4R transmission using a kit made by Shiftworks. I also opted for their kit that moves the park/neutral and reverse light switch to the shifter instead of on the steering column. I got the back drive linkage installed and adjusted to be able to lock the steering wheel with the shifter in the park position as it was stock. 
It took me a while to get everything all adjusted but I think it will work out very well. I did have to temporarily install the console to get it all checked since the console supports the front part of the shifter assembly.








































Installed the new shroud and Cold Case radiator along with the top and bottom hoses:
















I color sanded the trunk lid and got it installed. I temporarily installed the stainless trim on the edge just to see that it lines up the way I wanted. I'll remove it for polishing the car out and then reinstall.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I installed the inner fenders and battery tray yesterday. Not a fun job installing the staples for the rubber splash shields.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> I installed the inner fenders and battery tray yesterday. Not a fun job installing the staples for the rubber splash shields.


No it's not, but looking better every day


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Update:

Blasted and repainted the original '69 radiator fan I bought from GTO.PAUL on the other site and got it installed with a new Hayden HD clutch and new bolts. I did not get the correct fan with this car. It was a 5 blade and correct with A/C is a seven blade. It must have been changed out at some point in it's life. Paul happened to have the correct numbered part in perfect shape. It even was date coded correctly for my car.








Did a couple minor repairs on the lower dash duct assembly. It had a few holes underneath drilled underneath that I filled. Must have had something mounted to it at some point.
It also had a mount pad broken out where 1 of the 3 attaching screws goes. I cut and shaped a piece for it from 1/8" plastic sheeting that I had and grafted it to duct using JB Weld.
















Got a bit more wiring done in the engine compartment. I mounted and wired the high speed blower relay. I mounted it behind the brake booster as I had done with both the Edelbrock EFI and fuel pump relays. Also wired in the original blower speed resistor along with mounting A/C accumulator and wiring in the compressor cycling switch.
















Received the stereo amp I ordered and mounted it to the back of the glove box. I chose this Kenwood because it was the perfect size to be able to mount it there. It's a 4 channel amp with 45 watts per channel. 
















After mounting the glove box in the dash with the amp in place, I completed the wiring for both the radio and the amp and then installed the glove box lid, ash tray, lower dash column cover and the lower duct assembly and finished all that today. 
























I'm very impressed with the job Just Dashes did with the recovering job. Really impressed with the job they did on the glove box lid too. It fits super well. It was a bit warped when I sent it to them and they corrected that just as they said they would do.

Btw, if you look one either side of the e-brake release handle, you can see where I mounted the rocker switch and dimmer control for the Dakota gauges. It was the least conspicuous place I could find to mount them and still have them easily accessed. The dimmer knob was aluminum but I painted it black so it wouldn't be as noticeable.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Tanks Inc. Fuel Tank*

Here's all the small parts. I opted for a Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump and a floatless fuel gauge sending unit.








Fuel pump assembly put together and ready for installing in the tank:








Fuel pump and sending unit installed in tank and wiring in place:








All hoses attached. Pretty crowded looking on top but pretty much how you have to do it. Tanks Inc. instructions have you tie the 2 vents together with a Y adapter that they include. My plan is to connect the vent line to the original vent tube that loops up into the trunk and back down.








Installed Weather Pack connectors for the fuel gauge and fuel pump hot wire.








I like that Tanks Inc. makes this tank with a removable filler neck. It sure makes it a lot easier to install the tank. I bolted a board to my floor jack to aid in the installation.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks for the likes guys.

Hooked up all the hoses at the tank today. Here's a photo of the vent connection. The hose is 5/16" and the trunk loop tube is 1/4" so I put a piece of heat shrink tubing on the tip of loop tube to make the hose fit tightly. Tanks Inc. supplied me with a rollover valve but I can't find a good location to mount it so I think I'll go without it. I'm going to be pretty careful with the car and don't plan on rolling it. Not a good idea with a convertible without a roll bar anyway.








Posting a photo of the original vent loop inside the trunk as I know some of my follower friends probably haven't seen one before.








It took me a couple of months to get but I received the A/C condenser I had on order from Original Air and got it installed. It is a parallel flow design instead of the original serpentine type. It's a spendy piece at $360. $454 with tax and shipping.








They do a pretty good job making it fit exactly like the original but I did have to bend the tubes some to be able to get it into place.








I dug out the Magnaflow exhaust system I bought a few months back and started looking at it. It appears like I'm going to have to modify it some to get it to fit with the G Force transmission crossmember I have. Anyway, installing the exhaust looks like is what I'm planning to do next.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

It's coming together little by little, got to be getting exciting 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> It's coming together little by little, got to be getting exciting 👍


Yes but it feels like I still have a long way to go. That's just fine though. Sometimes I think I should slow down so I don't get that 'I need another project' feeling. This project has worked out well for me to eliminate the feeling of boredom that Covid would have caused me otherwise. 

I looked at my factory assembly manual again and I saw that I had installed the trunk vent tube loop incorrectly.
This is the way the manual shows:


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ya half the fun of the hobby is working on them, I miss driving mine but also look forward to doing things on it all winter. It's nice that your bodywork is out of the way because that didn't look fun, assembling all the new parts sure is....no more messes.


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## 68GTOJim (Oct 21, 2020)

Hello, i just started reading this fantastic restoration and wish I had started last year. I have been in the process of restoring my 68 for several years off and on and could have learned a lot from these threads. my car is currently in the paint shop and undergoing quite a lot of work to the body. I was hoping by jumping in that someone could give me a suggestion on where to get front wheel well moldings. I just dropped off a complete set to Fed Ex to return to OPG. my body man said they were not usable. any ideas?? Thanks


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Mocked up exhaust system from the mufflers forward*

As I had mentioned, I was going to have to make modifications to the Magnaflow exhaust kit due to the G Force crossmember. I ended up having to cut about 4 1/2" out of the pipes behind the X in order to move the X further back. This allowed the angled front extensions to clear the crossmember. 
























For temporary connectors, I slotted 4" sections of left over pipe, slipped them on to join the pipes and used some of the supplied band clamps to hold them in place. I did this for rejoining the cut pipes as well as connecting to the down pipes. The down pipes are from Pypes which are the same 409 stainless steel as the Magnaflow pipes are.

My intention is to weld all the joints except at the rear of mufflers. I am going to *buy 4 connectors* to replace the temporary ones I have on there now to avoid having to do any butt welds.

Here's a photo of the side of the car I took kneeling on the floor. As you can see, the system tucks up nicely and isn't seen.








Next I will start with the mock-up of the tail pipes.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

68GTOJim said:


> Hello, i just started reading this fantastic restoration and wish I had started last year. I have been in the process of restoring my 68 for several years off and on and could have learned a lot from these threads. my car is currently in the paint shop and undergoing quite a lot of work to the body. I was hoping by jumping in that someone could give me a suggestion on where to get front wheel well moldings. I just dropped off a complete set to Fed Ex to return to OPG. my body man said they were not usable. any ideas?? Thanks


Thanks! I hope you will start a build thread and post some of your past photos along with future ones. 

Boy I don't know why you had troubles with the repop mouldings. Why don't you start a separate thread on that. I think you might find someone who will chime in and have a good used original set for sale.


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## 68GTOJim (Oct 21, 2020)

roger1 said:


> Thanks! I hope you will start a build thread and post some of your past photos along with future ones.
> 
> Boy I don't know why you had troubles with the repop mouldings. Why don't you start a separate thread on that. I think you might find someone who will chime in and have a good used original set for sale.


Thanks roger, good idea.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Ames makes their own moldings. 



Ames Part Detail





Ames Part Detail


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Their catalog is great. Website eh. but they're working on it ( so they say)






Ames Performance Engineering, Classic GTO Parts, Firebird Parts, and Full Size Pontiac restoration parts.


Pontiac GTO, Lemans, Tempest, Firebird, Trans am, Bonneville, Grand Prix, Catalina, GTO Parts, restoration, reproduction parts, ram air, engine, hinges, bumpers, latches, switches, carburetor, brakes, weatherstrip, seals, chrome, hoods, emblems, sheet metal, GM Licensed



secure.amesperf.com


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## 68GTOJim (Oct 21, 2020)

roger1 said:


> Thanks! I hope you will start a build thread and post some of your past photos along with future ones.
> 
> Boy I don't know why you had troubles with the repop mouldings. Why don't you start a separate thread on that. I think you might find someone who will chime in and have a good used original set for sale.


I just ordered moldings from Ames with some other parts. I'll start a thread on my car when I can get some pictures together. thanks O52 for the idea.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

*Rear Bumper:*

Before proceeding to install the tailpipes, I decided I needed to have the rear bumper installed first so I could know if the exhaust tips would be where I wanted them to be.
So, I installed my new Ames bumper. I was immediately not happy with this bumper. Fitment problems in 2 areas. 








Looks OK in that photo but take a look at this corner on the top left:








That corner is just misshaped and I can stick my finger in that gap up to my knuckle. The opposite corner is shaped OK though. 

The other problem is at the top center. Here is a photo of how close it is to the tail panel:








It's almost touching. In this photo, the rubber blocks that fit on the pinch weld are not installed. I can loosen the bolts and install the blocks but it puts the bumper in a bind when the bolts are re-tightened. However it does increase the gap a little.

Next thing I did was dig out my original bumper off my junk pile and wash it up. I counted over a dozen dings and it has two slightly bent areas but it looked like it had never taken a severe blow. So I decided to mount it and see how well it would fit. Here's a few photos. 








































As you can see, the original bumper fits very, very well. (need to adjust the right taillight a little though).
I made a decision right then and there to research and find a shop that can restore this bumper and try to return the one I bought from Ames. 
It had been over 60 days since I had received it so I wasn't sure what they would do. 

I called Ames and dealt with Donovan who was very good. He had me send photos of their bumper as well as ones for my original bumper. After reviewing them, they will allow me to return it for a refund but I will have to eat the shipping. There is also a 10% restocking fee for being over the 60 days but I am going to request a waiver on that after they receive the bumper.

After doing some research on bumper restoration shops and getting a great reference from Ron Johnson at Potomac Classic Pontiac, I decided to go with a company in Tennessee called Tri City Plating. They charge $800 plus shipping both ways but I will be worth it to insure a perfect fit. Ten week turnaround. 

*Exhaust system:*

I tack welded all the joints from under the car and then removed for welding up all the way around. I then used ceramic exhaust paint to paint the welds so they don't rust.
























After reinstalling, I then started on the tailpipes. I decided to use the kit's band clamps instead of welding any of the joints.
















The tailpipe hangers are a combination of what I think were factory frame top brackets and hanger kits I bought from O'Reillys. The frame top brackets were on the car when I got it and I blasted and painted them.








I tack welded the polished tips in 3 places on each one but where they can't be seen unless you look under the car.
































Eye level to the bottom of the quarter:








So the exhaust is finished. However, I am thinking about removing and polishing the last sections of tailpipe from the tip joint back to the clamp. Since that pipe can be seen from the side of the car just a little, I think it might look better.


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## slingshot (Aug 22, 2021)

Keep up the good work! Looks awesome...


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> *Rear Bumper:*
> 
> Before proceeding to install the tailpipes, I decided I needed to have the rear bumper installed first so I could know if the exhaust tips would be where I wanted them to be.
> So, I installed my new Ames bumper. I was immediately not happy with this bumper. Fitment problems in 2 areas.
> ...


Boy that's a shame when you pay big bucks for a bumper, that's way off and don't they check those things before selling them? I hate when they give you a limited amount of time to return it, what's the difference, if it's wrong at 60 days it was going to be wrong at 30...and restocking fee ? I hope they don't try and sell that again! Exhaust looks good, I bet you're itching to hear what it sounds like


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Boy that's a shame when you pay big bucks for a bumper, that's way off and don't they check those things before selling them? I hate when they give you a limited amount of time to return it, what's the difference, if it's wrong at 60 days it was going to be wrong at 30...and restocking fee ? I hope they don't try and sell that again! Exhaust looks good, I bet you're itching to hear what it sounds like


I still have a lot to do before I'm ready to hear it run but the day does keep getting closer. I need to get transmission cooling lines and battery cables ordered. I'm going to do some research on that and try to get orders in by this weekend. 

Yeah it makes me wonder if they will restock this bumper and sell it to somebody else. I sure hope not. Seems like they should be sending it back to whoever manufactures that bumper for them. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll mention this when I talk to them again to request they waive that fee.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Some updates to report.

I got both bumpers sent off and both Ames and Tri City Plating have received them. I contacted Ames today and asked that they waive that 10% restocking fee and stated some of the reasons discussed here why they shouldn't charge me that. They did honor my request with no argument so my refund is being processed and will show on my credit card. Btw, I do want to express how nice Donovan was during the whole return process and he actually calls back or emails back when he says he will. That seems hard to get in this day and age.

Installed the transmission cooler that I got with the transmission from Art Carr. He insisted I buy this from him and I'm glad he did. It's nice and small and there was a perfect place to mount it. I refuse to use the plastic ties that go thru the cores so I hunted for a good place and it was obvious that not only was the center bracket a perfect place but it was pretty much the only place for it to attach. I fabricated 3 small brackets and it's very solid and about 1/8" from the condenser core.
























Here it is with the horns mounted. The assembly manual shows the horn on the left to use the upper bolt hole and the one on the right the lower. However, for the left horn to clear the cooler, I had to do it the opposite way.
I can't see it will make any difference at this point.








I bought new transmission cooler hard lines from Inline tube and got them installed yesterday and hooked up the hoses to the auxiliary cooler today. I had to modify the tubes bit to connect to the 2004-R transmission. The connection points aren't in exactly the same place or angle as a Turbo 400 and the pressure line on my transmission is the top connection where on a Turbo 400 it's bottom one.
















Installed both doors and latches a couple of days ago and the d/s fender today:


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looking great, top notch job...I'm getting excited just watching the progress 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Got the battery cables made up. I crimped, soldered and used heat-shrink tubing on all the connectors.








From the top down they are:
2 gauge positive battery cable with a 4 gauge secondary to fuse block.
2 gauge negative battery cable with a 10 gauge secondary to fuse block.
6 gauge positive alternator cable
6 gauge alternator ground cable 

Here is the fuse block mounted on to the flat portion of the inner fender behind the battery tray and under the fender:








Here's the info on it:
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/45977/Littelfuse-880094-LX-Series-Power-Distribution/
And btw, this is the same part as Blue Sea Systems markets for marine use. They call theirs a Safety Hub 150 and it has a clear cover instead of black. I bought the Littelfuse version because it was a better price.

Here's a photo of how I wired it:








The 4 gauge secondary wire attached to the positive battery cable powers the fuse block and connects to the fuse block at the top of the photo. 
The secondary 10 gauge wire attached to the negative battery cable is connected to the ground bus at the very bottom of the photo.

For the 4 MIDI screw down type fuses, here are what they power. From the top down:
10 gauge wire to the main fuse panel under the dash using a 60 Amp fuse
10 gauge wire to the HVAC blower motor relay (30 Amp) fuse
10 gauge wire to the stereo amp mounted behind the glove box (30 Amp fuse)
6 gauge alternator wire (150 Amp)

Only using 1 of the 6 available ATO fuse slots and it is for the Edelbrock EFI power. The only ground used on the ground bus bar is also for the Edelbrock EFI.

Here are photos of how I decided to route all the battery wires. As you can see, I used 2 vinyl coated wire clamps to help with the positive battery wire to the starter. I mounted one to the unused mount hole on the front of power steering pump and one on the front motor mount bolt.








































Grounds for the body and the frame:








I made up 2 wires with connectors using 6 gauge welding cable. Then connected one wire from the passenger side engine head to the firewall body mount bracket. The other wire is connected on the same point on the bracket and then goes to frame. I had to drill a hole on the bracket but used an existing hole on the frame. I installed 1/4" steel rivet nuts in both holes for the attaching bolts.

With the car powered up, everything I was able to check works correctly so far. The radio, HVAC blower and Dakota gauges seem to be working fine. The blower does seem like it blows a lot of air. At least through the bottom vents it does. I can't change it to the top vents without engine vacuum.

Also got the passenger side fender installed:


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Every day you are one day closer - I'm going to miss this thread - learned a lot. Thanks for chronicling everything.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

integrity6987 said:


> Every day you are one day closer - I'm going to miss this thread - learned a lot. Thanks for chronicling everything.


Don't worry about that yet! I still have a long, long way to go to call this car done. 

A few updates to report:

Installed the front bumper, valance and hood and got them all lined up.
A couple of people warned me not to have the bumper up against the fenders so I left about a credit card thickness gap. I hope that is enough.
Seeing it all together now makes me want to start getting to the cutting and buffing process. 








































I finished up all the wiring on the engine. All I had left was the A/C compressor and the alternator.
I ran an ignition wire with an inline 470 ohm resistor for the alternator excite input and another ignition wire from the main fuse panel for the voltage sensing input.
Also installed the new valve covers and the chrome on them is really nice. Makes a big difference over the old ones. Installed the air filter and finished installing the heater hoses as well.
















I did try cranking the engine briefly just to see if the wiring was all working. Cranks OK but the starter doesn't sound right so I need to put it back up in the air and check that out. Then my plan is to finish the brakes, get the wiring done back to the fuel pump and gauge, fill all the fluids and get the car running.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I had reported in my last update when I did a test crank of the engine that the starter sounded funny. When starting to dig into that issue, I first noticed that the plastic inspection cover that I got with the 200-4R transmission had broken at the retaining screws. It didn't clear the flexplate obviously. After taking it off and cranking the engine from underneath I could see the flexplate had a bit of runout to it. It also appeared that the runout was causing the pinion gear to wobble. I took a video of it and sent it RobbMc (where I bought the starter) to get his advice. Here is that video:






Robb (the owner) told me that I needed to add shims under the start bolts to move the gear away from the flexplate and suggested adding shims 1/32" at a time until I could tell there was no gear contact at the root diameter of the pinion gear. He also said that I could keep adding as long as the backlash didn't go over .031 at any point of an entire rotation of the flexplate but don't add any more than necessary.
So I added 1/32" but it wasn't quite enough. I then added 1/32" more and that did it. Sounded normal and the wobble was totally gone. It's still not that close to the .031 maximum either.

After solving the starter issue I started to do some research on getting an inspection cover that would fit. I hated that plastic one but that's all that's available. They do make a metal one but it has the cutaway for the starter on the wrong side for a Pontiac engine.

So, I dug out the original inspection cover for the Turbo 400 to see if I could modify it to fit the 200-R4. Turns out I could and it wasn't that hard. Just some trimming and modifying the screw holes a little. After blasting and painting I think it looks a lot better than the plastic one too.
















So working towards being able to start the engine, I needed to run the power wire to the electric fuel pump and decided to get the tail light wiring done at the same time.

That was fairly time consuming. I didn't like the way American Auto Wire wanted me to run these wires so I did quite a bit of modifying to make the wires close to the way they were done with the original harness. I also had to add a ground wire to each tail light since I'm using the plastic tail light lens housings. Even if I were using the metal housings I think I would have done that anyway.








After putting in some gas and other fluids, I got the engine running. Here's a video I took:






After starting, the first thing I noticed was a ticking noise. It also had a bit of engine shaking at idle. I left it running a while and got it warmed up well while I filled the transmission. The ticking didn't go away and when revving I could feel the shake up over 1500 rpm before it would start smoothing out.

I checked and changed some of the parameters on the Edelbrock EFI. The machine shop didn't get some of the adjustments done that were in the instructions. That made the engine start easier but didn't change the shake.

I was afraid that I might have a lifter problem as I had been warned as well as read that these Lunati lifters can have problems sometimes.
Anyway, I decided the first thing to do was pull the spark plugs and do a compression check. 7 of the cylinders where very close being just a couple of psi either side of 150. But one cylinder (#5) measured 180 psi so about 30 higher than the others. #5 was also the side the ticking noise was coming from. Pulled the valve cover on that side and turned the engine to see what was going on and quickly could see the the #5 exhaust valve rocker was loose. Really loose. I measured the lash at 1/8". That explains the higher compression reading. The nut had backed out some and I could turn it with my fingers. Must have been a bad nut. The nuts were a new set that came with the Magnum roller-tip rocker set. Anyway I was kind of hoping the ticking noise and the engine shake issues were related and it appears that is the case.

I did some research what poly lock type nuts would work and ended up ordering a set of Comp Cams 4606 which are 1" long. I think they will be the right length for the studs and clear the stock valve covers too. They will be delivered tomorrow.

I thought about getting the paint stripped off the grilles and repainting them but decided to do a trial fit of The Parts Place chrome trim first. That didn't go so well. I broke one of them. More info on that here:
Aftermarket 68/69 GTO Chrome Grille Trim Question - PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together

So I guess I order another one and try again. I wish they fit better and didn't require the bending.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

What an emotional roller coaster, it's finally running then the noise then the fix. In the video it surr sounds smooth, glad it all worked out...closer every day for that first drive, hope you video that 👍


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A bit but I don't get too worked up about bugs. I just do what I have to do. It's the little things that get to me worse. I was much more worked up about the breaking the grille trim than I was with the engine issues.

Yes, hard to tell in that video with the shaking. It was kind of like half of a misfire on one cylinder.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

My start up was more nerve racking as it was a Butler 461 dynoed then stored for 4 years and I bought it off of ebay...I know, cue the eye roll and head slap. But I couldn't pass it up at 7500.00 for a 475 hp Butler with a Cliff Ruggles carb, MSD ignition, flywheel to water pump. The problem was the American Autowire engine harness sold by NPD I bought was never listed as having a resistor wire so the motor shook bad so bad the hood slid off the roof and dinged it up. I thought what did I get myself into, but figured it out finally after some frustrating times.


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Purring like a tiger. nice.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

integrity6987 said:


> Purring like a tiger. nice.


Thanks but it's not quite a purr yet. I think it's hard to see and hear that video that all isn't quite right.
I ended up having to return the first set of poly lock rocker arm nuts. The package had mismatched sizes. Some were the correct 7/16 but some were 3/8. I installed one of the correct ones just to check the fit. I decided longer ones would be a little better anyway. I returned the set and bought a set of ARP 300-8242 and it should arrive tomorrow. They are 1.20" long and should be perfect.

Been working on a few other things in the mean time. I set up my pot blaster outside and got all the wheels I'm going to use blasted. I also did the front rail on the convertible top frame.
The seller of my car threw in 3 15X7 Rally wheels that he had stored in the back of his house. All were in really good shape. A bit of rust but not too heavy at all. I will use 2 of these for the front and 1 for the spare. I recently bought 2 new Wheel Vintiques 15X8s to use on the rear. The castings on them are very good. A lot of complaints about the charcoal paint quality and color on these wheels but that didn't matter to me as I want to paint all 5 wheels anyway so they will look exactly the same. I need to decide what paint I'm going to use and get some ordered this week. I think I want to base/clear them. I know very shiny isn't really correct but I think I'd prefer them that way.
















































I put in an order to Ames over the weekend. I realized I had neglected to buy a brake proportioning valve so I ordered that, a replacement d/s grille trim and a few other small parts I needed.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:

I received and installed the new ARP rocker arm nuts. Afterwards, I re-checked the compression on the #5 cylinder and it did come back down in line with all the other ones at 155psi. 

I then decided that it just wasn't working out great how I had my spark plug wires run. Plus, they were cut to length by the machine shop when the engine was on their dyno. So I decided to redo them all and needed to cut some shorter for how I wanted them to be run. Had to order some new crimp on ends to be able to do that. I'm much happier with the way they are routed now. 








Also drilled a hole into the air cleaner base to install the Edelbrock air temperature sensor.








When I ordered the new ARP rocker arm nuts, I looked through my Summit wish list looking for an small item to add so I could get to the amount to qualify for free shipping. I decided to order something that's been in that list for a few years. A set of 10" Race Ramp wheel cribs. I should have gotten these sooner as they are really great.








While I had the car up in the air to try them out, I decided this would be a good time to finish up the wiring for the headlights and turn signals. First I blasted and painted the headlight backing plates and buckets and installed new springs and adjusting screws. Like I did on the tail light wiring I made modifications to the AAW harness to make it fit more like the original wires did. This completes the wiring for the entire car. I was overall very happy with the AAW kit and am really glad I went that route. 
















I plugged a few things in to test the wires and all works perfectly but I did find an issue with the horns. One sounded sick and the other didn't work at all. I should have tested them before I took the time to blast and paint them up real nice. At this point I think I'll order a set of the new reproductions from Ames. 
Btw, I did receive the driver side grille trim I ordered to replace the one I broke and was able to get that bent to fit just fine using the same process I did on the passenger side. Not easy though and I probably spent an hour and half on it while I was watching the Masters.

At the end of the day yesterday, I started the engine up. Sounds way better now and no ticking at all. Idles really well too. I did notice a little shaking from about 1100 rpm to 1700 but that seemed to go away when the engine got up to full temperature. I'm sure I need to go through the tuning procedures again now that the rocker arm issue is fixed. I'll wait until I have the brakes done to do tha so can move the car out of the shop and not fill it with exhaust fumes again.

I had the rear wheels off the ground so I ran the transmission through the gears and so far it seems to shift just fine. With it in gear and the e-brake on, the engine still idles perfectly smooth too.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

gtohurstjudge;6312241 said:


> I notice you are using a repro brake booster....... On the ones I have installed on numerous GTO's including my own, I had to install a flat washer
> on each stud for mounting the master cylinder in order to get the proper clearance at the master cylinder piston to push rod interface to prevent the brakes from dragging........no big deal, just put one flat washer on each stud...
> not noticeable once the master cylinder is installed.


I am sure glad you gave me that tip! Thanks again. I had to put 1/16" thick washers behind the master just like you did. If you hadn't given me this tip, I can't imagine how long it might have taken me to figure out what was wrong! I think I would have have suspected a bad master cylinder first.

Updates:

Got the master cylinder installed and brakes bled using my vacuum bleeding canister. I always think I can do this without getting fluid on the floor but it seems to never work out that way.








I thought about painting the master with cast paint but decided to try something new this time. I had read that coating the bare cast iron with this protectant works well so I bought some to try. I haven't applied it yet though.








The car now moves under it's own power. I moved it outside briefly so I could get my floor cleaned up. I stacked up some outdoor furniture cushions to use as a seat.








Oops. Couldn't resist:








I haven't gone through the Edelbrock tuning procedures again yet but intend to do so soon. 

Receive my bumper back from being rechromed. Looks like they got all the dings out perfectly and I think it looks very nice but I wouldn't say the chrome quality was absolutely 100% perfect. But, I'm happy enough with it so no complaints.








Before installing the bumper, I removed the trunk lid extension stainless trim from the quarter panels so I could color sand and buff the paint in that area and reinstall the trim. They can't be removed once the bumper is in place so this needed to be done first.
When installing the bumper I was surprised to see it didn't fit the same as it did before. I guess all the ding straightening they had to do on it changed the general shape a little. It was the passenger side the wasn't fitting the same. It was a little low and too far out. To correct, I needed to loosen the both the bumper and frame bracket bolts so I could move and realign the bracket. It time consuming and pretty much took the better part of the day yesterday to get it to where I was satisfied but I did get there.
















The trunk lid extension trim stainless is polished but I haven't done that to the other 3 trunk lid trim pieces yet. They are just mocked up for now.
As you can see, I have bulbs in the taillights and they are working. And btw, I know I raised a few eyebrows when I mentioned I bought the plastic repro tail light bezels but I really like them. I see zero wrong with going this route.

I had read that using oven cleaner works well for stripping the paint off of the plastic front grille pieces so I bought a can and gave it a try. I did 3 applications and it did work pretty well but I will finish it off with Scotchbrite to remove the few spots of paint remaining.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> I am sure glad you gave me that tip! Thanks again. I had to put 1/16" thick washers behind the master just like you did. If you hadn't given me this tip, I can't imagine how long it might have taken me to figure out what was wrong! I think I would have have suspected a bad master cylinder first.
> 
> Updates:
> 
> ...


Looking great as usual


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## Notagoat (9 mo ago)

Car looks fantastic, do you by any chance know what color it was when you bought it?
Thanks
Darren


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks!
The car was originally Liberty Blue with Parchment interior. It had had one repaint in the original color during it's life before I bought it. Take a look at post number one of this thread to see how it looked.


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## Notagoat (9 mo ago)

That’s the picture I saw, still in planning stage for
My car, wife saw it and loved color, so I had to join this forum to ask you !
Thanks so
Much


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:
Cleaned up and painted the convertible top frame with SPI epoxy primer. I think it came out really nice. Looks brand new to me.
















I did remove the first crossbar to paint since I didn't want to get paint on the rubber spacers or chrome screws and had just reinstalled it before I took those 2 photos. I buffed the original chrome screws and that made them look new:








Both the original left and right hold down clamp assemblies were bent and I opted for new reproductions I bought from Ames. I'm very happy with the quality of these and like the fact they have stronger than original pins where the chrome hook bracket connects. Bought a new alignment pin as well.








I do have new steel side cables for the top frame but I haven't put them on yet. Both original cables are frayed some. It looks like they will be easier to remove and replace with the frame installed on the car.

Also sprayed black epoxy on the Ram Air hood pan. I didn't strip the ecoat first. I just scuffed it with 320 grit and a maroon Scotchbrite where I couldn't get to easily with the sandpaper.








Yesterday, I sprayed black epoxy primer on the back sides all the wheels and flipped them over and painted the gray epoxy primer on the front sides today.
















I'm going to do a bit of block sanding on the spokes to make them a bit flatter. Only the 3 15X7 factory original wheels need this. The castings are better in this area on the 2 aftermarket 15X8 wheels.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Wheels:

The next day after spraying the outer sides of the wheels with epoxy primer, I applied a bit of finishing filler to spokes on the 3 factory 15X7 wheels. The 2 aftermarket 15X8 wheel spokes didn't need to have this done.








After block sanding I sprayed a couple of more coats of epoxy primer on them and finish sanded the spokes with 400 followed by gray Scotchbrite. Next I sprayed the wheels with Argent Silver base coat followed by 2 coats of SPI Universal clear. The base coat paint I'm using is Automotive Art Motobase.
















Next I put the wheels in my blasting cabinet one by one and very lightly blasted them just to etch them enough to dull the clear. I did this because it was a lot easier than scuffing them with gray Scotchbrite. Here's the first one ready for taping:








It took me about an hour and half to tape each wheel.








Early this morning I sprayed the wheel centers with Charcoal Gray Metallic basecoat. 
















After letting them dry for about an hour I removed the masking tape and sprayed the wheels with 2 more coats of SPI Universal Clear. I've got a lot of hours in these wheels but I think they came out great.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Short update. Been a bit lazy since I finished the wheels:

My wife helped me put the top frame in today.
We laid it on the floor on the side of the car and she held one end of the top while standing inside the frame. Then she stepped up into the car while I was holding the other side from outside the frame.
I had the lowest bolt stuck into the body on both sides and since the bottom of the top side brackets were slotted, it allowed the top to go right into place.
















Got the grilles ready for painting. I did a bit of sanding to remove the small places where paint was left after using the oven cleaner. I then put them in my blasting cabinet and blasted lightly to get them clean. There were a few very small cracks in the plastic and I ground them out a little and used JB Weld to fill followed by sanding flat the next day.








I blasted the front park/signal light housings and stripped the paint on the mounting frames. Lightly blasted those too and repaired a couple cracks as well.
I believe these are made of some kind of fiberglass. Painted the housings using rattle can chrome for the insides and cast coat for the outsides.
Also blasted and painted the retainers. The frames will get painted red later.


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## AZ58Cameo (8 mo ago)

"WOW" Roger! 
I just rememered you purchased a GTO and looked up your build, Beautiful and Awesome work Sir Like all of your builds have been! 
You are a True Craftsmen and a Pleasure to catch up with what you have going on! 
I hope you and the wife are doing well and wish you the Best Sir! Very nice to see your progress!

Allen aka AZ58Cameo from Payson Az


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

AZ58Cameo said:


> "WOW" Roger!
> I just rememered you purchased a GTO and looked up your build, Beautiful and Awesome work Sir Like all of your builds have been!
> You are a True Craftsmen and a Pleasure to catch up with what you have going on!
> I hope you and the wife are doing well and wish you the Best Sir! Very nice to see your progress!
> Allen aka AZ58Cameo from Payson Az


Great to hear from you Allen!! Thanks for searching for my build thread and for the nice compliments too!
Hope you are doing well. 
I don't get over to trifive.com much anymore since I've sold both my '57 pickup and my 55 Bel Air. I check in once in a while still though. It's a shame that all the photos I posted there over the years don't show anymore. The host I used for storage of those changed their system and broke all my photo links. I've corrected the links on some of them but it takes an inordinate amount of time to do.

Take care and I hope you continue following along here. Also shoot me a link if you have any threads of what you are up to lately.
Roger


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

After getting the convertible top motor/pump and cylinders out of my shed and doing a thorough inspection of them, I decided to opt for all-new and bought them from *Convertible Service.*
I also bought this item from they call their Fluid Master Bleed Tool and wow, it sure made the bleeding process super easy. Zero spillage and makes bench bleeding unnecessary.








After installation and bleeding with a couple of videos going up and down:


















Brought in my side glass and inspected them all much closer than I did before I packed them away. Many more scratches than I noticed before and some edge chipping on the driver door glass. Plus I didn't pay attention enough when I removed them to notice that my car didn't have the option for tinted glass. I sure like that for down here in Texas. So I ordered all new tinted side glass from *Auto City Classic*. While waiting for those I then cleaned and reinspected all the window regulators and ended up ordering new ones for both doors and one of the quarter windows. That all arrived and I'm in the process of installing.

So far, I have all the regulators, the driver door glass and both quarter windows in place. Also the driver side top weatherstrip and temporarily the windshield pillar seal. I've been lining that side up some but a long way to go still. I think this is going to take a lot of time and patience.
















I bought a pair of rear speakers and have them installed. It turned out to be a bit more complicated to install them than I thought they would be. I ended up fabricating some plates in order to hold the top well liner tight around the holes (that will need to be cut) in the top well liner when it gets installed. I made them out of 18 gauge sheet metal.








I also realized it was going to be a bear to install nuts on the rear side to mount the speakers. So, I used JB Weld and glued them directly to the speakers. It's still not easy to hold the speaker from the back and get it to line up to be able to install the bolts but I found it near impossible to do without the nuts held in place.








I blasted the plates clean and painted them black and the speakers installed and wired up and tested.








I may install a speaker grill material on the backs of the plates later. I think I will also apply some thin foam sheeting over the other large holes on the panel where the speakers are mounted. I think that may help the sound some.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

roger1 said:


> After getting the convertible top motor/pump and cylinders out of my shed and doing a thorough inspection of them, I decided to opt for all-new and bought them from *Convertible Service.*
> I also bought this item from they call their Fluid Master Bleed Tool and wow, it sure made the bleeding process super easy. Zero spillage and makes bench bleeding unnecessary.
> 
> 
> ...


When is the first projected maiden voyage ?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

I was just thinking about this yesterday during a conversation with my Grundy agent about when to start coverage. At this time, it can drive around my property but without the seats, I can't consider taking it on the road yet. I still have to get the lights for the front installed as well. The owner of the upholstery shop knows I'd like to at least get the bucket seats done and back soon but I can't bug him about it. He's mostly retired and I'm lucky to have him do them at all. Luckily, it's not slowing my progress as there is still plenty of things I can do while I wait. I'm hoping that I can get the seats and do a test drive by the end of this year. Then to an alignment shop and to the upholstery shop to have the convertible top installed.

Another thing is that I think my replacement front springs might make the front end sit a little high. I've reduced the weight on the front quite a bit from stock with the aluminum A/C compressor, intake manifold and radiator. But, I need to have all items installed on the car before I can decide how the stance will actually look with the present springs in it. The rear has original springs which ride a little low but I'll be able to adjust up with the air bags I will install in them. I have those but have not installed them yet.

I've been working on the adjustment of the side glass and top frame weatherstrip for over a couple of weeks now. It's been taking me an inordinate amount of time to try and obtain perfect operation and sealing. Plus, my hours per day have been down some due to other things I needed to work on around the house. I'm very darn close on the windows though. I am hoping to be finished by tomorrow.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Been a while. I hadn't had as many hours available to work on the car lately and it also took me an inordinate amount of time to get the side windows (and top frame weatherstrip) adjusted to my satisfaction. I also spent some time on the quarter window weatherstrip seals that fasten at the top of the quarters. They weren't bent right and weren't fitting well in the curved area near the door.
I started a thread over on PY to ask about these issues and you can see the details and photos there of how I dealt with that:
*Need help with installing the convertible top weatherstrip on my '69*

I am now extremely pleased how all the side glass fits and I think it's going to seal as well as a convertible possibly can. I have read that replacement side glass can fit differently than original glass. I can't really say though. I didn't have any strange issues getting it all to line up perfectly. It just took me a long time and I had to make little adjustments in the top frame weatherstrip by drilling new screw mounting holes. But the adjustment amount needed wasn't a lot. I have zero complaints with this glass. Got it from Auto City Classic. Sure looks great being all new and I like having it be tinted instead of the original clear. I took new photos of it all today:
























































I will be removing the stainless windshield post moldings for ding removal and polishing. I will also replace the weatherstrip clips that rivet onto the stainless channels.

A few things done since moving on from the side windows. The 4 brackets that help hold the rocker moldings on were pretty rusty but the metal wasn't compromised. I blasted them, soaked them in vinegar overnight to get the rust out from down in the pits and blasted them again. Then sprayed them with 3 coats of black epoxy primer.
Also got the stainless headlight bulb retainers cleaned and polished.
















I epoxy primered the 2 plastic parking light mounting bezels and block sanded them to smooth out. Got them painted today and also painted the 2 new front marker light surrounds. 
































Next thing is getting the plastic front grilles painted. Haven't decided the best way to go about that yet but have decided I'm going to paint the egg crate parts black like they do with the Judge.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Here's how I went about painting the grilles:
First thing I did was paint the grilles all over with black SPI epoxy. I then lightly scuffed it all except the egg crate centers. I then taped off the parts that remain black before spraying the Argent Silver base coat. Taping the center parts are difficult and time consuming.



















This is the same Motobase base coat that I used for the wheels.










After some dry time, I removed the tape and sprayed the entire grilles with SPI Universal Clear.



















My original headlight bezel chrome isn't perfect but isn't all that bad either. So I decided to clean them up, repaint the black and then get them installed before deciding if I needed to explore getting others. 

First thing I did was tape the chrome edges off and blast the areas to be painted. black. There were a few pits in the bottom part of the inside areas that I filled with JB Weld and then sanded smooth.








Taping the bezel chrome is a real pain to do and again takes a lot of patience and time. I decided the only way to do it was to tape and paint the inside part, let that cure well and then tape off the inside part to paint the perimeters.








Again, used SPI black epoxy primer. I wanted these to remain a semi-gloss so did not spray any clear.
















Since my original horns didn't work, I decided to go aftermarket and bought a pair of Hella universal trumpet horns. They are nice and small and were easy to mount and take up less room than originals. They are plastic but sound fine to me and are very loud.
















After getting those installed, I was then ready to install the marker lights, parking lights, grilles, headlights, headlight bezels, valance moldings and the header filler panel under the hood. I had to do some adjusting on both the grillles and the headlight backing plates to get them all adjusted to my satisfaction. Several hours over the last 3 days getting it all installed.
















































I bought a new set of Wagner headlights from Rock Auto but one of them was broken when they arrived. A replacement is on the way, so for now I installed one of the old Sylvania ones that came on the car. 

I'm extremely pleased with how well I was able to get the grilles and headlight bezels to line up and match where they meet. I also am pleased with how the paint came out on the grilles. Black centers look a lot better to me especially on a red car. I think the chrome edges on the headlight bezels will be fine. You have to get pretty close to see the imperfections


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"I think the chrome edges on the headlight bezels will be fine. You have to get pretty close to see the imperfections."

If anyone gets that close to see the imperfections, they won't be around long to bring it to your attention because they were just run over. LOL

Looks better than factory. Are you sure you will be able to drive it looking more like a museum piece than a driver?


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks Jim. 
Yep, I'm sure I'll drive it. I'll take it easy with it though. Mostly short pleasure drives and showing locally. I might take it on trips but not often. I'll take it to Austin a few times which is 200 miles and I might drive as far as Arizona it to see some friends sometime.


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## slingshot (Aug 22, 2021)

You're going to end up with the nicest car on the forum... gorgeous.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

slingshot said:


> You're going to end up with the nicest car on the forum... gorgeous.


Thanks! I'm definitely trying to make this car my best one yet.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates:

Carpet. 
I was given the factory original jute underpadding with the purchase of the car. Bought a roll of underpadding from Legendary and cut it using the original for a template. Here it is installed. Used some carpet tape to hold it down along the sides and in the corners.








I was also given a new but old set of replacement carpet with the purchase and had intended on using it. But upon placing in the car it looked dark blue to me rather than black. I figured it had to do with the fact it had been stored for a number of years and the dye shifted. It probably didn't help that I stored it away in my attic for 2 summers.








Ordered a new set of carpet and moved on to restoring stainless while I waited it to arrive.
I have a 1 hp buffer that uses 10" wheels and I use the Eastwood products and the 3 step polishing system that they recommend for stainless.
The 3 steps are pretty simple. First is on a sisal wheel using emory compound, second is on a sewn wheel with stainless compound and third is on a loose wheel with white rouge compound. Normally, it looks pretty good after the second step but the 3 step adds a bit more brilliance. I've restored a lot of stainless over the years using this process and it's always done a nice job for me.








Started with the windshield post moldings. They had some dings and I got them removed. I had trouble polishing them though. I've never encountered a problem like this before. First, I noticed the sisal pad couldn't remove the 400 grit scratches. So I went back and sanded them with 600 and then back to the sisal pad. It still took a lot of time to remove even the 600 scratches. When I finally seemed that I had, I moved over to the sewn wheel for step 2 and it wouldn't remove the finish the sisal wheel left. 








This is not acceptable and I don't know what to do about it at this point and need to do more research. Anybody here ever seen a problem like this before?
For now I put them aside and decided to do some tests on a few other stainless items. Here's one of the inner windshield post moldings after step 2. No problems there:








I then moved on to what I thought might be the hardest ding to remove. It's on the left half of the surround molding on the body edge at the bottom rear of the convertible top. A very sharp ding at the edge with limited access on the bottom side.








It look me and entire afternoon to smooth this area out. Several iterations of hammering and filing. I had to hammer some against a hard surface and some on the leather bag. For a file I use a short piece of paint mixing stick with the sticky backed 3M sandpaper either with 120 grit or 180. I also use an black marker for a guide coat. Once it's flat, I sand with 220, 320 and 400. I go to 600 if I want to save a little time on the sisal wheel. Here's a photo of it sanded out to 400:








I then test polished this 6" section going through all 3 steps. No problems with this either. It appears the only problem stainless I will encounter is the outer w/s post moldings. 








Got some good news this past week. I visited with my interior shop guy and he said he will be able to start on the upholstery of my seats soon. Also called Legendary and they said the door panels I've had on order since last December would be done very soon. So, I put the stainless aside for now and shifted focus to getting other things ready for the interior.
The padded w/s post trim pieces and kick panels I received with the car were all in excellent condition and just needed a coat of vinyl paint (Duplicolor flat black) to freshen them up. I also media blasted the metal w/s frame molding pieces and painted with Duplicolor semi gloss engine enamel. 








The center console I received with the car was also in very good condition and a coat of vinyl paint made it look brand new. I had purchased a new arm rest/compartment lid from Legendary a while back and installed that too. I had to do some modification where the hinge attaches on to it to make it fit well and was a bit time consuming but it does fit well now. Installed new inserts on the 2 original plates.
















Received the new carpet I bought from StockInteriors.com. It is made by ACC which I guess is what you are going to get no matter who you order it from. Ordered it without attached jute underpadding since it wasn't needed.
It took me a few days to install the carpet, kick panels and console and I'm happy with how it all came out. 








































Also installed the shifter indicator that came with my Shiftworks conversion kit. Seems to look nice. The stock light bulb was too bright for it so I used a black marker on it to darken it down. The shift knob I got with the car was a bit worn so I bought a new one along with a new button.

I was given a set of coupe seat belts with the purchase of the car. They were in very nice condition. However, I didn't realize until now that the retractor for the driver side didn't work. I took it apart and there is a plastic barrel that holds the spring and it came out in pieces. Not sure what to do about this yet. Ideas?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Looks good as always Roger, but I have a comment regarding the carpet.

The seat bracket mounting studs appear to be showing. They and the seat bracket mounting area should be hidden under the carpet. 
Take a look at this link from the Chevelle site. It shows how the factory did it. The seat bracket never goes on top of the carpet.









How to cut carpet for seat tracks


Fit and install your carpet making all your cuts for seatbelts,shifter,console,anything else that is needed on you car. Making the seat track cuts should be the last thing you do before trimming the edges and installing your door sills. 1. Locate your forward mount points for your seat(s) make a...




www.chevelles.com


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

O52 said:


> Looks good as always Roger, but I have a comment regarding the carpet.
> 
> The seat bracket mounting studs appear to be showing. They and the seat bracket mounting area should be hidden under the carpet.
> Take a look at this link from the Chevelle site. It shows how the factory did it. The seat bracket never goes on top of the carpet.
> ...


Oops! I didn't know that. Looks like I may have to try and recover from that error. I think I might be able to glue in a small scrap piece of carpet to try and make the small hole invisible.
Thanks for pointing this out!


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

So the windshield post trim I bought used off of a '68 didn't work out like I hoped. The stainless acted exactly the same as the ones that came with my car. They just won't polish up nicely with the process I use. 

So, I decided to take a chance and buy a set of reproductions by Restoparts that OPGI carries. After taking out of the box and inspecting, the polish job on them wasn't great but the fit looked perfect. They are a bit thinner but that doesn't make any difference. After a test polish, I decided they would polish out fine. I found the stainless they were made from were still quite a bit harder to polish than most other stainless I've done but the end result passes for me.








Here's the pair and the original inner pieces all completed:








Installed new clips that came from Ames and the rivets came from a Chevelle parts supplier.








Ordered some speaker grate, cut and installed it to protect the rear speakers. I had mentioned that I had intended to do that.








I finally received the door panels I had on order from Legendary since last December. They told me at the time they would take 8 months and that was right on the money. I polished and installed the original stainless trim onto them. These polished easily and fast much more like I'm used to.
















Installed a set of Air Lift air bags in the rear springs and was able to do that without having to drill any holes by putting the access to the air fittings in the trunk and using existing factory holes.
















































I had ordered tires a couple of weeks ago and was able to get them and have them installed on the wheels last week (raised white letters to the inside). They are Cooper Cobras and are 235/60R-15 front and 255/60R-15 on the rear. I brushed SPI black epoxy primer onto the raised white letters so they wouldn't show from under the car. Also bought a new tire for the spare. It's a Cooper Endeavor and is 215/70R-15. I chose this because it's a smaller tire but has the same diameter as the rear tires. 

In these photos, the air bags have about 10-15 psi in them and is what I'd like to run them at. The space between the top of the front tire and the fender is about 1.5 inches more than the space between the top of the rear tire and quarter panel. Even though not everything is installed in the car yet, I know for certain now that I'm going to have to change the front springs. 
































I've ordered trim rings from OPGI but they have been on backorder now for more than a couple of months. I get regular updates from them but every time they have extended the time by 2 more weeks.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

It's been awhile, I know. Nothing wrong. Just a slowdown with some things going on and when I do work on the car, the processes of what I'm working on are slow. 

I did a bit of research about polishing stainless steel I had never checked out the products that Caswell plating offered until now. I had only been using the Eastwood products previously. Caswell has a broad range of both compounds and wheels that can be used for stainless where Eastwood just a single choice choice per step. 
Caswell also has a "How To" booklet that explains the differences in their choices pretty well. 
For the first step on a sisal wheel they offer a couple of different compounds. One they call Super Sisal and I bought a couple bars of those. For the second step they offer a wide choice of compounds. I ended up buying bars of their standard cut, fast-cut and extra-fast cut choices. All the bars are made by Formax and are pretty large.








They also had some choices for the wheels used on the second step. They carry a vented buff wheel that is advertised to hold more compound and keep the part cooler which speeds up polishing. They also carry a yellow colored vented wheel which is specialty treated for longer life and is more aggressive. I bought one of both types to see how I like them. The also offer a yellow colored treated sewn wheel and I bought one of those too.
























For my first test with these new products, I polished the top well stainless trim pieces. I used the Super Sisal compound for the first step. I believe it is better than the emory compound from Eastwood. For the second step, I used the untreated vented wheel with the "fast cut" compound. It did cut somewhat faster than using a standard sewn wheel with the Eastwood compound. Not quite the luster at the end but polished up nicely on step 3 using a loose wheel with the Eastwood white rouge compound. 

Here's how the 2 pieces look after installing them on the car. These pieces are not easy to install at all and a bit tricky to get the end tabs into place behind the outer quarter window weatherstrip.
















As you can see, I color sanded and polished that area before installing the trim. I'm happy with the way it fits and looks.

I purchased a used driver-side seat belt retractor from GTO.Paul. I removed the guts and took the parts out I needed to rebuild mine. Not easy to do but I got it and it works perfectly now.








I had purchased a reproduction sport steering wheel from Ames over a year ago but I thought this was good time to go ahead and get it installed. It was their complete assembly. Also had purchased their ignition and door lock set with matched keys so this was the time to install the new ignition lock too.
Very happy with the way it looks. Horn works perfectly too.








I thought a long time about what I wanted to do about the fact the front of my car sits higher than I want. I also measured and it sits about 1 1/2" higher than the height than the assembly manual states what it should be. After researching and searching forums for all A-body cars of this vintage, I decided to try a set of Moog 5372 springs.
Looks like they powder coated these but there are some defects so I'll touch those up with black epoxy primer. They got delivered today.








Still waiting for trim rings from OPGI. Also I'm starting to get anxious to get my seats. I went down to the interior shop and it sounded like he would get to them very soon. That was 3 weeks ago so I hope to hear from him any day. I told him I'd like to have the buckets but the rear seat could wait. I also told him I'd like to put it on his schedule to get the top installed in mid-October if possible and he thought it might be doable.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Update:

I had mentioned previously that the seller of my car had included a pretty nice set of seat belts from a coupe. There were a couple of things broken but since coupe sets have shoulder harnesses, I was able to put together everything for my convertible that was pretty near perfect. I cleaned and polished all the plastic covers and they all appear new. I didn't have to buy any parts other than the d/s retractor that I showed in my last update.








Installed in the car and ready to go:
























I received both arm rest bases with my car but one side was broken while the other side appeared OK. I bought a reproduction one from Ames but it was pure garbage. The shape was off and the details weren't the same and the new pad wouldn't even fit on it. So I contacted GTO.Paul to see if he had an original he could send me and he did. In that process I discovered the one I got with the car that wasn't broken was made in Taiwan so it couldn't have been an original. So, I bought a pair of originals from Paul instead of just one.
Got them in from him and then painted them using the same parchment colored paint that I had purchased for the head rests.








I got the new Moog 5372 front coil springs installed last Saturday. I separated the lower ball joints and did not remove the calipers. I didn't know if this would work or not but it did. A little tricky though and I don't think I could have done it that way if I didn't have that spring compressor that I had bought last year (post #365)
I'm very pleased with the stance it has now. The front came down about 1 1/4". It might come down a little more as they settle in after driving but that would be OK since I can still maintain the stance by adjusting the air pressure in the rear bags.
























So as it sits now the floor to the front measuring point is 9.9" and floor to measuring point on the rear is 11".
The nominal heights according to the assembly manual are 9.6" front and 9.1" rear for the 4267 GTO. Seems strange to me that they say the rear is supposed to be lower than the front. I can lower the rear by adjusting the bags but I don't think I'd ever want it lower than the front.















I polished out the areas around the door handles & locks, d/s rear view mirror and trunk lock and got those all installed:
























I finished installing the door panels today. I'm very pleased with how they fit and look.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Updates - A setback:

I color sanded the rest of the car and did some test polishing. I color sanded with 1000 then 1500 paper using a Dura-Block 1-3/8" X 11" flexible block. Then I polished out a few areas on the car to test my procedures and to check out some areas where I had concern about. First was the driver side fender. There was a low spot I had just plain missed until after I sprayed the clear coat on. I hadn't mentioned it here and didn't do anything about as I had decided to wait and judge after color sanding and polishing. Well, I decided I couldn't live with it and am going to redo it. Already started on it.
Then the hood. It just wasn't reflecting things as well as I wanted to see. Can't live with it either so I'm going to redo that too. I wasn't totally happy with the reflection all the way across the trunk lid either. I probably could have lived with that one but since I'm doing the other to panels, I decided to redo this too.
Good news is the passenger side fender, both doors and quarters look good. However, I have noticed that I have some urethane wave in many places. I used this SPI Universal clear before on my '55 Bel Air but I didn't get any detectable urethane wave on that one. Only thing is that I put 4 coats of clear on this one and only 3 on the Bel Air. I also wonder if the formulation changed little since 12 years ago as it didn't seem to lay down quite the same when spraying either. I don't really know though.
Anyway, I think I have plenty of clear on the car to color sand again starting with 800 grit on a harder sanding block. I'm thinking of investing in a few plexiglas sanding blocks. I have read they work well when trying to get rid of urethane wave. I may not be able to remove all of it but I'm hoping enough to make it harder to notice. Most people probably wouldn't notice it the way it is now. 

I also was surprised to discover that my process of polishing using a denim pad with Menzerna 400 compound didn't work well on this cured clear for removing 1500 scratches. I didn't expect that and haven't had that problem before. So I tried using a wool bonnet with the Menzerna 400 and it removed the 1500 scratches just fine but didn't leave as brilliant of shine as the denim pad. So I followed up using Meguiars M205 and my Rupes long throw orbital with a microfiber pad and it brought out a really nice shine that I'm plenty happy with. So that is the procedure I'll use on the rest of it when the time comes. I also have some Menzerna SF3500 I might try on it instead of the Meguiar's. 

I think I would have had trouble getting a photo of the reflections I didn't like on the hood and trunk lid but here's a photo of the fender after I blocked out the area of the low spot with 320 paper on a hard board:








As you can see, I sanded through the clear and base and exposed red epoxy primer underneath. The low spot was between the 2 sanded though spots and was sanded completely out at that point.

Next, I sprayed 3 coats of red epoxy to cover up the area before a re-sand to blend in. You can see a couple of small spots where I went through on the hood too after blocking with 320. There are more sanded though spots on the other side of the hood also.








So today I moved the car out, washed it and removed the hood and the trunk lid. 








My plan is to concentrate on getting the fender done first and then move the car out of my workroom and then move the hood and trunk lid in and start on those.

Other things:

I now have all the stainless for the car ready for installation. I now have 2 new and perfect rocker moldings. I bought a pair of front wheel moldings and polished the 2 original ones in the rear. Not sure I could have gotten the original front pair to look perfect and I wasn't willing to put in the time to find out.
I also corrected and polished out the top windshield molding and the wide molding at the bottom. Also the rest of the molding pieces that go on the rear of the trunk lid. Here's some of the parts:








Also after waiting since last June, I was able to get some wheel trim rings. I got them from Coker Tire and I couldn't be happier with them. I got 3" wide for the 8" rims on the rear and 2 1/2" wide for the 7" wheels on the front. The styles match perfectly with each other and all fit great.

Front:








Rear:








Got a nice surprise at the end of last week. My upholstery guy called me and said my seats were ready. And boy do they look beautiful! I'm am thrilled that paint on my headrests matches so well too. It was expensive stuff and Legendary recommend them.


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## roger1 (Jun 25, 2020)

A few things I can give an update on:

I got the fender done and it came out well. 








Before starting on the hood and trunk lid, I decided to buy some new sanding blocks. I bought a set of polycarbonate blocks from Linear Blocking Tools. 








I also bought this block sander called a Curve Caster:








I re-blocked the entire hood and trunk lid out again and then sprayed more epoxy primer and blocked. 
Close to being ready for base and clear but one more sanding to do with 400 grit.








The hood was a challenge from the start for me. Both the damage it had and all the complicated curves. I probably didn't have the right technique either so I've really studied more on it this time. I like the new sanding blocks I bought and think they've helped me some this time too.
The trunk lid wasn't a problem. Like the fender, I just missed a low spot.

I hadn't tested the wiper motor out yet and did that the other day. It didn't go well. It's a reproduction and made by The Parts Place. It seemed to run correctly at first but then made a strange sound and locked up. I guess I should have known better and not bought a reproduction when I could have bought a rebuilt original instead. I never did evaluate the original that came on my car. I just wanted one that was shiny and new. 
I decided to bench test my original and it seemed to work OK so I cleaned it up the best I could. Cleaned up pretty well but I may have removed some of the plating from the washer assembly cover and the steel end of the wiper motor. Maybe a good coat of wax might keep those from rusting.








Snapped a photo of the driver side seat installed in the car. Since the seats will come back out for the convertible top install, I'm not going to install the new seat base aprons and backs yet.


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