# Engine choice opinions



## roadking60455 (Feb 11, 2015)

I am part way through a 67 Tempest convertible total frame off. I've installed a GTO tail panel and grills. Not trying to fool anyone, just making the car look the way I want. 

My question is about engine choices. I have a very sweet running 326 that was in the car, but way to underpowered. I've been looking for a good 400 or 455, but they're not easy to find. I couple guys I know that have been active in restoring GTOs have suggested I get a new GM Performance Parts ZZ5 400HP, 400ft lbs or torque out of a 350 cu in relatively light engine. I'm having difficulty convincing myself to put something other than a Pontiac engine in the car. Thoughts?


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Don't listen to the Chevy lovers ! None of them are going to recommend a Pontiac engine. A classic old Pontiac deserves a Pontiac engine.

Now, nobody can say that a Pontiac engine will be cheaper--cause they won't. Nothing is cheaper to build or buy parts for than the sbc engine.

Now--how much power do you want ? 300hp ? 350hp ? 400hp ? More ?

How much are you willing to spend on an engine ?

Just to give you an idea of what's available, here's a 400 and a 455 pump gas crate motor. You can buy the 455 with an Eagle crank and rods for $4500 + shipping. The cast rod 400 will make over 350hp, depending on cam, intake, carb, exhaust and tuning. The 455 will require a beefed up trans.

400 Long Block

455 Long Block

And there are lots of big name Pontiac specialty shops who will build you a Pontiac engine for 8-$10,000 or so.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RK: " I have a very sweet running 326 that was in the car, but way to underpowered. I've been looking for a good 400 or 455, but they're not easy to find."

PJim - So why not put a stroker kit in the 326? Butler Performance has a rotating KIT for the 326CI that'll give you 382 cubes (.060" overbore) - not too shabby. But I would go .030" over and go for the 376CI so you have meat left in the cylinders for another rebuild or two. Pontiac 350 389 400 421 455 engines / Pontiac Stroker Engines Save you from buying a used 400-455 that you know nothing about (unless you buy a rebuilt or short block) and you keep your original engine. I'd leave the 326 badges on the car as well just so I could surprise the heck out of people. Smaller bore, forged rods, forged pistons, and this should get this engine up in RPM's with good heads, cam, & exhaust. Probably get 375-400HP out of it with the right parts and still be streetable. Here is a 350CI/383 build that would be similar just to give you and idea Small-Bore Pontiac Performance Engine Build - Revenge Of The 350 

RK: "I'm having difficulty convincing myself to put something other than a Pontiac engine in the car. Thoughts?"

PJim: Dammit man, don't even go there. LOL


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## roadking60455 (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks guys. I guess I like your responses because it reinforces my opinion. The next issue is where to find one, and then decide whether a 400 or 455. There are obviously horror stories about some of the builders out there.

I've been reading a lot of stuff and generally I'm finding the 400s are supposedly stronger due to the increased block thickness between the bores. I really am not that enthralled with brute horsepower at high RPMs. I like lots of low end torque and a "healthy" sound.

I've also decided on new HO style exhaust manifolds. I have an Edlebrock intake with a Holley. I really liked the Q-Jets when I had them in the 60s and 70s, but now it seems there are a number of junk repro Q-Jets out there.

I'm just outside of Chicago so if anybody has personal experience with a great Pontiac engine shop around here, either post or PM me,

oldskool: I liked what I saw on the links you included, but can't figure out who's web site it is.


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## roadking60455 (Feb 11, 2015)

PontiacJim: If I do the 326 build, from what I've read, I'd need to get replacement heads too. I wish I was mre of an expert. Right now I just know enough to be dangerous.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

"oldskool: I liked what I saw on the links you included, but can't figure out who's web site it is."


Len Williams--Long time, well respected, Pontiac engine builder. He supplies the cores, and bores and hones the cylinders with a head plate torqued on the block, to duplicate having heads bolted on. Most non-Pontiac shops don't even have a head plate for a Pontiac engine.

I've read of a couple of guys who have had a good experience with Len Williams. Tho I have never personally bought an engine from him. I use a local Pontiac guy for my builds.

Len Williams Auto Machine

Len is even listed in the source guide of Rocky Rotella's book "How To Build Max Performance Pontiac V8's"--p.142.

How to Build Max-Performance Pontiac V8 Engines | CarTech SA233

I know from experience that a Chevy shop can really mess up a Pontiac engine build. 

I would not stroke the 326. The bore size is just too small. Even with the larger bore size of the 350, the tops of the cylinder bores had to be notched for the large valves of the '69 350HO engine. A #481988 400 block is just a better foundation for a good strong engine build. You can go with any cube from 400 to around 500. And the blocks have all 5 motor mount bolt holes on both sides, so that they can be used with either 2 or 3 bolt mounts. That will be a plus, if you ever decide to sell the motor. It'll bolt right in to an early or late A-body, F-body, and lots of other bodies.


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

a period correct motor out of a full size Pontiac would be relatively inexpensive to buy n have rebuilt. have the crank balanced, install a little nicer cam n d.r. timing chain, hi-volume oil pump, forged pistons. it will run good on high test pump gas without dickin around with the timing.


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## roadking60455 (Feb 11, 2015)

What a wealth of information on this site. Thanks everyone.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RK:" If I do the 326 build, from what I've read, I'd need to get replacement heads too."

PJim: What I read in the build article was that they used the 1970 small valve #16 heads with press-in studs. Your heads would be basically the same. In the article, they fitted the heads with oversized valves, 2.08" intake & 1.71" exhaust, due to the bore size. You can't really go with the bigger intake valve heads as they are too close to the cylinder walls, but the '69 350 HO engine used the big valve #48 heads by adding a scallop at the top of the block for clearance. You can't go all out on the lift and many claim the valve is shrouded by the cylinder wall and air flow suffers. This is shown in the series of photos and I suspect this is why they went with the oversized valves as opposed to a set of 2.11" big valve heads like the #48's due in part to the cylinder wall shrouding -which is not quite the problem with the smaller 2.08" valve seen in the photo.

The heads also got fitted for screw-in studs, but the article used the paired rocker system -but this is needed with the huge cam they used. Nothing inexpensive about the heads or the engine build for that matter -so the article is just a guide as to what can be done to a smaller engine.

I was just throwing an option at you as I know some areas around the country are tough to find good Pontiac engines at reasonable prices. The 326 won't have the torque or HP of a built 400, but it doesn't mean it won't be respectable or fun to drive. I bought a 350CI/3 speed stick in a '67 Firebird (originally a 326CI) that I was told had some head work done to it, and I don't think it had any kind of big cam or anything. It was a peppy car, able to burn tires with little problem, and I used to spin it to 6,000 RPM's. 

A 400CI with a Butler stroker kit would be my choice, but this means you have to buy an engine and you want to find one with a set of heads you can use having the factory screw-in studs. *Oldskool* nailed it on the block as you need one that you can fit into your year car/engine mounts without engine mount adapters. You can also buy an engine ready to go that will drop in your engine bay from one of the already mentioned builders if you can afford it. Everything depends on your budget and how much you have to play with.:thumbsup:

Member *Grumpy* recently rebuilt his 326 to the 326HO 285HP specs. You might want to contact him and ask about the performance of the engine seeing the car is finished and on the road. Check out his Facebook page and the engine video. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grumpys-Garage-MuscleCars/200941343261937?ref=hl


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

rickm said:


> a period correct motor out of a full size Pontiac would be relatively inexpensive to buy n have rebuilt.


Hahahahahah...ummm... :nonod:


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