# HEADERS. The Long and Short of it



## Guest (May 19, 2007)

There are a lot of people on this site including myself who have added headers as one of their upgrades,,it seems that most have added the LONG TUBE type,, as for me I went with the JBA shorties,, Years of track Drag Racing and some street racing lead me to make this choice and for good reason. Long Tube headers make a few more HP then the shorties, but it comes at a cost.. Long tube headers make power at much higher RPMs where as the Shorties make their power at low to upper mid range RPMs anywhere from around 2000 to 4500 RPMs,, this is where most of us do our driving,,the Long Tubes are useless in this range,, a dyno run will prove this fact, at Higher RPMs the long tube type will generate about 6 more HP then shorties but at the Lower to upper mid range area the Shorties have a good HP atvantage over long Tubes,,

At the track Long tube will be more usefull for top end where as the shorties will provide the extra HP but more importantly more Torque where it is needed. LOW to MIDRAGE, this is where most of the races are won. the 1st 500 ft


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## Zebra (Sep 2, 2006)

I am currently looking at buying the JBA shorties. I only plan to use my car as a daily driver. I am definitely want the low acceleration over the top end speed.

Before buying the JBA shorties, are there any problems I need to take into consideration? Any fitment issues? Will I need to buy an longer O2 sensor cable?


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## vfrkent (Jan 22, 2007)

*Header tuning*

Actually the longer the tubes on the headers the lower in the rpm band it brings in the torque band, it has to do the with the resonate frequency of the tube which is based on length and diameter, intake tracks work the same way long tubes small diameter equal stong bottom end but die off on the top end, short intake track larger diameter equal loss on bottom end gain on top end.

Remember these are all relative to the same engine.

Dang I new I should have skipped physics class, all this stuff still floating around in my head.


Best regards, Kent
EMC Engineering


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## Guest (May 20, 2007)

*Headers..*

On paper what you said makes sence, but on the track this theory does not work,, just look at all your Top Fuel, Funnycars, Pro Street and others, they all use short headers, because they produce more power at the lights and midtrack... Also, FULL COMP headers come with adjustable and different collector lengths so you can tune at the track for the conditions.. With Street Headers you are pretty much STUCK with what you have,, for a car that is 99 percent a daily driver ,, Shorties have the advantage,

Also just go to a dyno shop,,take 2 identical cars,, but one with shorties and one with long tube,,the shorties will make more power at low to midrange

J.D

Retired AEROSPACE ENGINEER , Pratt and Whitney Airrcraft


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## Guest (May 20, 2007)

*headers*



Zebra said:


> I am currently looking at buying the JBA shorties. I only plan to use my car as a daily driver. I am definitely want the low acceleration over the top end speed.
> 
> Before buying the JBA shorties, are there any problems I need to take into consideration? Any fitment issues? Will I need to buy an longer O2 sensor cable?


,,

There are a few good header makers for this car,, what it boils down to is your own choice..on the street the Shorties do it for me, but again it is your choice. Long tubes will cost you about $1,200 compared to about 650.00 or so for the shorties, and you will not feel the difference between the 2,,also the shorties are cheaper to install if you have a shop do it,, you will end up saving a lot of cash and you can use the saved money for other items,

THE CHOICE IS YOURS


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

I don't know. I've heard alot of people say the shorties don't FEEL much more powerful than stock manifolds. Can't say I agree or disagree, becuase I've never ran a car with them. I do, however have LT's on my 04, and MAN, what a diffrerance over stock!:cool


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## Guest (May 20, 2007)

*headers*

There is a great difference between the stock manifold and shorties,,but the difference between LT and shorties are mimimum..


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## 1gto (Dec 3, 2006)

*Shorties*

Have JBA full sytem installed for about a year now. No problems at all and U dont need any 02 extensions everything will bolt up fine. My pre nums were 348, with tune and JBAs 380. Great modding:cheers


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## Zebra (Sep 2, 2006)

Well, I ordered the JBA shorties. They should compliment my Magnaflow Catback.


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## Guest (May 23, 2007)

*headers*

you will be happy with the shories,,and with the 5 or 6 hundred dollars you saved,, you can fill up your gas tank,, ha,ha,


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## Guest (May 23, 2007)

*headers*



PEARL JAM said:


> I don't know. I've heard alot of people say the shorties don't FEEL much more powerful than stock manifolds. Can't say I agree or disagree, becuase I've never ran a car with them. I do, however have LT's on my 04, and MAN, what a diffrerance over stock!:cool


 are you sure you are feeling the difference or just hearing it..with most street cars you will not feel a 15 or 20 HP gain, but you do hear it and it tricks your mind into thinking it,, just like some Harley owners who put straight pipes on their bikes, sounds louder and feels faster, but it is not,,LOUDER does not mean faster


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## Rustybronco (Nov 10, 2006)

Did installing shortys do anything to the exhaust sound? Even with the stock exhaust? How many miles should be on the car before installing the shortys? I have had mine for 8 months but only have 1700 miles on it may not hit 2000 this year. And do you need to do a tune when you install them like with long tubes. Sorry for all the questions but I have not really considered shortys because it seems like everyone bad mouths them.


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## Zebra (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm having problems matching up the JBA flanges to the the flanges on the factor midpipes. Any suggestions?


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## Guest (May 26, 2007)

*headers*

I had a shop do mine,, I have not heard of anyone having problems bolting them on


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## Guest (May 26, 2007)

*headers*



Rustybronco said:


> Did installing shortys do anything to the exhaust sound? Even with the stock exhaust? How many miles should be on the car before installing the shortys? I have had mine for 8 months but only have 1700 miles on it may not hit 2000 this year. And do you need to do a tune when you install them like with long tubes. Sorry for all the questions but I have not really considered shortys because it seems like everyone bad mouths them.



The only people who bad mouth them are the ones who don't have them..and you can put them on at any mileage, and yes it would be better if you had a tune, but you don't have to


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

dizzy1 said:


> are you sure you are feeling the difference or just hearing it..


Nope. I'm feelin' it. I've worked at a Pontiac dealer for 10 years; drove many GTOs since 04. I KNOW how a stock one feels. 
Been a mechanic for 14 years. It is habit for me to examine (feel) every car I drive.:cool


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## SloTymer (Sep 16, 2005)

PEARL JAM said:


> Nope. I'm feelin' it. I've worked at a Pontiac dealer for 10 years; drove many GTOs since 04. I KNOW how a stock one feels.
> Been a mechanic for 14 years. It is habit for me to examine (feel) every car I drive.:cool


:agree I'm with ya there man, put SLP LT's on my 05 and major diff. :cheers


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## Zebra (Sep 2, 2006)

*JBA shorty install completed*

I completed my install of JBA headers this morning. I might have been able to finish last night, if the bolts that came with the headers were long enough. 
I had to buy some 2 1/2" bolts to link up the headers to the factory mid-pipes. JBA includes 2" bolts. 
I will have to change out the factory plug wires. The boots that attach to the plug extend out too far and touch the headers. 
Overall install took about 4.5 hours.


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## HoldenGTO (Nov 22, 2005)

Rustybronco said:


> Did installing shortys do anything to the exhaust sound? Even with the stock exhaust? How many miles should be on the car before installing the shortys? I have had mine for 8 months but only have 1700 miles on it may not hit 2000 this year. And do you need to do a tune when you install them like with long tubes. Sorry for all the questions but I have not really considered shortys because it seems like everyone bad mouths them.


Exactly what I am wondering, will it be much louder with the shortys and stock exhaust??


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## G.T.O (Dec 28, 2005)

vfrkent said:


> Actually the longer the tubes on the headers the lower in the rpm band it brings in the torque band, it has to do the with the resonate frequency of the tube which is based on length and diameter, intake tracks work the same way long tubes small diameter equal stong bottom end but die off on the top end, short intake track larger diameter equal loss on bottom end gain on top end.
> 
> Remember these are all relative to the same engine.
> 
> ...


+1 Correct!


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## stupidaznmunkey (Apr 22, 2006)

does anybody have a link to the dynos of the JBA or SLP headers? i know that the gains are there, but just want to see if i should go with a CAI (gains in high end) or SRI (gains in low/mid)

what kind of intakes are everyone running here? (short ram or cold air?)


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