# new to old muscle



## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

guys, this is my first pontiac and first old muscle car. I just bought a 67 lemans coupe (post) that appears to be in OK shape. it was kind of a barn find, guy that started on it (fresh 350 pontiac and 350 tranny) unfortunately it was owned by someone who wanted to make it a ******* show car...they failed. I will include a link to my streetfire pictures. first off, I'm new to carb's and pontiac motors, let alone old muscle cars. 

I own a 684 RWHP 03 cobra that I have spared no expense on. so i'm not looking for major power or anything. I've been browsing the yearone group.

the motor has never been turned, in fact the plugs are still painted.

photo.JPG- Photo

I have more photo's since I pulled all the interior out and cleaned out the inside a bit. there is some rust on the floor boards and some very very small pinholes....but I believe I can cut the sheet metal out and weld in a plate. it has drums all around, I intend to replace that with a power disc front brake kit from year one by SSBC. should help it stop before she is even running. I have also gotten a wiring harness from painless performance. 


let me say that this car will not be returned to factory, there was alot of damage done to factory components like the factory gauges, center console, and all of the interior was changed. although the interior did clean up really nicely, the red and black looks retarded to me. the car used to be blue. the car will need some paint although for the most part minus the hood being dinged and needing to replace the front end, everything appears to be in good order body wise. some very very minor surface rust behind the drivers side rear tire, but nothing a good sandblaster and a good paint job won't take care of.

I would like your opinions and what I should do first etc. let me say I have no idea what carb is on it, or what fuel pump to put on this 350 (vacuum) the fuel lines are no longer present so I will need to run new ones for that.

I'm wondering what I need to pay attention to while going through getting her back to a driveable condition. 

i will be doing an autometer gauge package because I've got all of those laying around, and a hurst shifter for the T350. I'm wanting to do something else about the front seats, maybe a set of corbeau or something to that effect. would appreciate any help you guys would be willing to give me. or advice even. the only things I'm really set on at this point are the power discs, the gauge panel, and the hurst shifter...otherwise I have little to no idea where to begin. I am a good ford guy, built many stangs, but never a classic. I have a shop, so I usually have any tools needed to do the job. 

also, I have been deployed for the last 3 1/2 years straight now. so I've got some cash to burn. but I'm still in the sandbox. should be home in 2 months. the car only had 60k miles on it when the gauges were removed. 
Thanks for any help you guys can be.

also, what other sources are there than the year one group and my summit racing catalog? :lol:

Phillip


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## Jeff's Classics (Feb 24, 2010)

Hi Phillip,
First, welcome to the forum and your first classic Pontiac.
For parts I really like Ames Performance. (amesperformance.com) They have a full online catalog so you can shop from anywhere with an internet connection, or you can download it in PDF and shop anytime you have computer access, which is great for me.
For the fuel pump, I would go to the local parts store and ask for the fuel pump for a '67 LeMans with a V8 (either 326 or 400 I think). It's probably the same as that used on most Pontiac V8s, since the block was externally the same for all the later V8s. Someone here who knows a little more can chime in. Anyway, for that reason you could probably use the stock fuel pump lines from a '67 LeMans with a V8, and I'm sure these are available from Ames and probably others.
As for what else to do, I recommend checking the gas tank, suspension, and also check out the rear brakes if you're not converting them. You want to have a safe ride when you start driving.
Other than that you'll just have to see what needs attention as you work.
Have fun!
Jeff


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

also, I didn't mention it, but yes the flames will be going away. and I've been debating the rear brake kit as well by SSBC....probably will though.


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## Jeff's Classics (Feb 24, 2010)

There have been lot's of debates over disc versus drum, especially in the rear, on this forum. Myself, I went with Baer Brakes Serious Street front disks, which fit under my 15" wheels, and left the rear drums alone. Stops straight and fast, plenty for my driving style. Your results may vary, as they say!
Jeff


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

Jeff, does that setup come with the complete brake set minus hardlines (IE booster, master cylinder, proportioning valve etc?

I was interested in the baer as they are very similar to my cobra's brakes were from the factory (which are really good)


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

also, sorry for the millions of questions, what kind of backspacing do I need for my wheels, you can see the wheels that are on the car are not great. I'm thinking of AMR torque thrust 2s in a 16x7 all around. wondering what my backspacing need will probably be? any ideas?


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Phillip, Welcome to forum and the Pontiac world!! Great Find going to make a cool ride. Man somebody spend some money on that interior back in the day. Have the mice been in it. Got to love those barn finds!! Get home safe and enjoy!!!!..Les USA retired


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## Jeff's Classics (Feb 24, 2010)

virginiavenom said:


> Jeff, does that setup come with the complete brake set minus hardlines (IE booster, master cylinder, proportioning valve etc?


The kit I bought was just hubs, brackets, calipers, pads, and hoses. Bolts right onto stock drum (or disc) spindles, uses factory hard lines, master cylinder, and booster. And I love the way they stop.

Regarding your wheel choice...consider stepping up to 17s. I put 16s on my Corvette about 10 years ago, and while I love the way they look there is not much tire selection in 16s anymore. Biggest drag radial I could get was a 255. If I had it to do over I would have gone ahead with the 17s. On the GTO I'm staying with 15s, at least for the time being. There is still a good selection of 15" tires, though not as much performance as the 17s.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

there have not been any mice in it (knock on wood) however a bird did get in and make a nest in the dash (obviously removed now)


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

welcome to pontiac land Phillip, on the backspacing you should be around 4-4 1/2" to be centered. i am at 3.5" and have an inch and a half at the shock mount and a half inch at the wheel well with 245/60-15's.... man if those seats clean up they would not look bad in a black car, otherwise legendary makes nice reproduction covers. I am doing a 66' Tempest post right now should be on the road by spring.....

http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/g372/instg8ter/1966 Tempest/

Brian


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

I ordered a set of torque thrust Ms 17" with tires about 30 minutes ago with a 4 3/4" backspacing. they are 8" wide...should look nice. any recommendations for an exhaust system? I have long tubes currently


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I used 2.5" kit from summit, right around 200.00 on E-bay with mufflers all mandrel bent pipes with no cross over, on the 400 would not go any bigger. 2.25 dual was stock. Those torque thrust should get you right on center.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

anybody run the pypes performance setup? they have a stainless kit for 380 on summit


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

I uploaded some new pictures into that first link I posted so you can get a better idea of where I'm at right now.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

looks like a great foundation Phillip, stock fuel pump should be fine unless you get it over 500 HP, same goes for the Q-jet carb....keep us posted ...:cheers


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

can anyone tell what carb that is on the motor? I couldn't find any markings on it. 

any idea how thick the floor metal should be? I intend to drill in the worst parts of the floor a small hole to check the metal thickness of course after sandblasting.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

and, does anyone happen to recommend a good sandblaster?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

virginiavenom said:


> anybody run the pypes performance setup? they have a stainless kit for 380 on summit


I like mine pretty well. I've got their 2 1/2" "header back" system with the X-change crossover and Race Pro mufflers behind my 461 in my 69.

I've got videos up on youtube with it running both closed and open. Search for "BearGFR" and you'll find them.

Bear


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

virginiavenom said:


> can anyone tell what carb that is on the motor? I couldn't find any markings on it.
> 
> any idea how thick the floor metal should be? I intend to drill in the worst parts of the floor a small hole to check the metal thickness of course after sandblasting.


Hey Phil, welcome and good to see your bringing another Pontiac Warrior back from the dead. 

Carb looks to be an AFB style,not a Q-jet, probably an Edelbrock based on the ext. finish and electric choke. Plenty good for your application.

Sheetmetal on the floor should be 18 ga. I believe.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Sorry to train wreck this thread. I just noticed Alky is from Wentzville. You ever head to Pike county on the week ends for the "mid-night car show" on 94

To bad the drag strip out there closed. I still have a house/farm out in Edwardsville.

My family is all on that side of St. Louis, St. Charles, Troy, Winfield. I bought my 67 Camaro Convertible in Wentzville in 1995.

Back on track:

I bought a blaster from Gearbox Grannies back in 2000 for just over $100. It has been great. I have only had to replace the valves once, but I have ran through a bunch of tips and many many bags of sand. One thing I would do is use a power washer first on as much of the stuck on dirt and grease then blast. I am sure you are aware of not using the sand blaster and power washer on open body areas, as it will warp them ever so slightly to bad. I use black beauty and playground sand in it. Some times white silicone, but it is very bad on your lungs. I always ware a good 3m respirator, a sand blasting helmet/ with cover and visor, and a good pair of gloves. If you use a big tarp you can reclaim your sand, just sift it.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh I also like hitting the mud run down in Bloomsdale at Custom Differentials and riding the dirt bikes down at St. Joe. I guess I am a part time *******:willy:


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

Wow, those flames are amazing.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

lol....that's it, where is my black spray paint!


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

one of my pictures shows the back window and "speaker" area. from the looks of it, someone has hacked it up to attempt to put 2 speakers in the rear. and by hack, I mean hack. this area is one that I am particularly worried about. I was debating saving the up and down piece with the frame to the fenderwells in place and cutting all other portions out and then doing a thin piece of steel welded in place. of course the clean up and welding process would require removal of my rear glass, which is 100% good. I'm wondering how to remove that and reinstall correctly. and if there is a better way to fix my problem back there. I do not believe the rear window was leaking, judging from the contorted pieces of metal, I believe that was the cause of most of that rear areas rust level. 

btw, my wheels arrived yesterday so that I can begin doing the brake work etc when I return home.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

bump, any ideas on my last post about the back window panel?


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

virginiavenom said:


> bump, any ideas on my last post about the back window panel?


you have to cut the window out with a utility knife. to reinstall you buy a new rubber seal. from an auto body paint supply house.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

while your in the trunk check under the rear window panel (between window and trunk) there are supports under there that catch water if its leaking and will rust from the inside out. also if they hacked the package tray they probably distorted the window channel.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

they definitely hacked or so it looks....when I get home I'll take a look, it's in my shop now, so it will be ok until I get home, it won't get a lot worse I should say.


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## 67TEMPtress (Oct 12, 2010)

Venom...welcome!

I need to reinstall the back window in mine too so let me know how that works out for you...

(INSTG8TER good advice, I'm gonna look at that... I found a little spot of passenger side floorboard cancer but it's really small and easy for me to fix since I can weld.)

I'm on my first unsupervised and non-chevy muscle project right now and sometimes it gets hairy, otherwise it's pretty easy if you can ever get ahead of all the "rigging" the previous owner did. I deal with that a lot with mine, among other things.

The only piece of advice I can give you is that when you go to grab basic everyday parts, Automoan, O'Reilly, etc usually have them but sometimes you have to know how to BS them. A lot of the guys n there don't know d*** about Pontiacs and if it's not "in the computer" it doesn't exist. But all your average poncho V8 parts swap out, so you might have to tell them to run it through the computer under made up cars. I can get stuff usually for a Firebird Formula or some of the fullsize pontiacs like Bonnevilles and stuff. 

Good luck with your new project, I ask a lot of questions on here and get a ton of good answers!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yes Temptress i had no rust through in either panel or channel either but noticed a leak around the window corner (water in trunk after washing), I looked up while i was fitting the speaker box from inside the trunk and was amazed that the supports were rusted out as there was no visible damage from above. since the panel was still good i cut out the bad supports and fabbed pieces to splice in. True on the parts store, check the most popular models with the same motor (GTO, Firebird) and for chassis and susp (chevelle). Some will have GM cross reference on Computer too. I Have saved a ton of money doing this as my buckets are mint from a corvair and are the same frames and foams as the GTO other than covers got them for 250.00 comparable "GTO" specific ones in similar shape were 650.00 plus.


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## stracener (Jul 27, 2010)

My advice on that back area is to preserve it with some POR15 to stop the active corrosion of the metal, then cover it with a new package tray which you can find at one of the restoration shops (Ames, Performance Years, or Year One). THE most important thing is to determine if that damage is just due to "hacking" or a result of water leakage/corrosion. You'll have to stop the corrosion, it took a lot in my car to do that, but we did it. As long as the window's not leaking or the channel damaged, you may be able to leave the glass in. If not, you'll be pulling it, which will probably be just as well with the repaint anyway?

Welcome to the forums, there's a lot of great folks on here that can help out (just check out Instig8ter's work on his dash and interior!!)! 

Another set of forums that you may find useful is at performance years . A lot of engine related stuff there, although you may be pretty well set on the powerplant.

I see you're in Baghdad, but home based in Virginia? I'm in Norfolk, working on a '72 GTO myself. Look forward to seeing you back safely in CONUS in a few weeks. 
Dave


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

the screen name came from virginia a long time ago. I will be returning to Texas. thanks for the info. I may end up removing it. I haven't fully decided yet though.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Welcome. First, if you are going to cut out rust in the floor, I strongly suggest getting the replacement pans. They fit and line up MUCH better than trying to bend/shape a flat piece of tin. To me, it looks like you need the entire footwell on the left and probably a good portion of the right. You don't need to feel obligated to install the whole pan as it comes. I cut down a left side for my '66 Chevelle and it fit like a glove.

As for the rear disc's, I don't feel they are worth the work and expense unless you intend to road race it. You have to put a pressure regulator in the rear line and turn it down to prevent the rears from locking under hard braking. By the time you achieve that balance, they aren't doing much more than a good rebuild with drums can.

For parts sources, Ames, Performance Years and The Parts Place are good for Pontiac parts. The rear speaker shelf could come from a donor body. Since you are native to Denton, you have a multitude of no/low rust 64-67 A body cars to cut it out of. Again, once it's cut out, it's easier and nicer looking to replace with a formed piece.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

virginiavenom said:


> the screen name came from virginia a long time ago. I will be returning to Texas. thanks for the info. I may end up removing it. I haven't fully decided yet though.


Remove the back window and cover any others that you aren't taking out for the welding/grinding on the floors and shelf. Those hot sparks melt right into the glass and turn it into sandpaper.... I will need to replace almost every piece of glass in my car because I didn't do that...


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

everything was going to be either rolled down and taped in, or covered.


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