# starter and Ram Air exhaust manifolds



## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

Adding a pair of Ram Air exhaust manifolds to my 1965 GTO 389.

Purchased the positive battery cable for H.O. /Ram Air applications. Got the battery cable tube that attaches to the engine mount. Got the solenoid heat shield. 


What about the small wire that goes to the solenoid? 


Currently is routes through the battery cable tube attached to the driver's cylinder head. That is all going away with the Ram Air exhaust manifolds. 

Is there enough slack in the engine wiring harness to run that wire to the solenoid without getting too close to the manifolds? 

Will I need to wrap the wire where it runs towards the solenoid past the exhaust manifold?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

extinctmake said:


> Adding a pair of Ram Air exhaust manifolds to my 1965 GTO 389.
> 
> Purchased the positive battery cable for H.O. /Ram Air applications. Got the battery cable tube that attaches to the engine mount. Got the solenoid heat shield.
> 
> ...


I put mine through the engine mount tube after running it down the front driver side of the engine, behind the fuel pump. There was plenty of slack to be able to do that for me. I didn't add any insulation because the H.O. tube is long enough to protect it.
Note: I'm running headers, and also a RobbMc mini-starter that has a clockable body so that I can rotate the solenoid "down" and away from heat so that's why parts of the second photo look upside-down.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

My buddy did it just like Bear did on his '67. You want it protected by the tube, and not flapping around loose. Great pics!


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## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

First of all, Merry Christmas. I am killing some time here before heading to my in-laws for the festivities.

I have my rebuilt numbers-matching engine installed in my car. I have started the process of putting the rest of the car together over the winter.


The first item of business is wiring the starter around the Ram Air exhaust manifolds. I took Bear's advice long ago and got the wiring tube that attaches to the engine mount. I also added the little heat shield for the solenoid. I installed all of this and the starter on the engine prior to installing the engine in the car. 


I have now discovered the wires for the starter solenoid will require extending to re-route them towards the front of the engine and downward so they can run through the battery cable tube on the engine mount. 


I have a reproduction M&H wiring harness I installed while restoring the car 15 years ago. I can cut the purple (is it 12 gauge ?) wire and the red (is it 10 gauge?) wire and solder an extension wire to both for reach.


My big worry is heat in that confined area around the solenoid and those big manifolds. I have already found on this site stories about starter solenoid wiring getting cooked despite routing them correctly. Is this common? Would it help to cover the wiring with something like the Classic Braid loom sold by Painless wiring? Would quarter-inch or half-inch be a good size? 


I never had the problem with the wiring running through the vertical metal tube attached to the top of the stock driver's side exhaust manifold. Maybe I was lucky. I am a little nervous and wondering if I made a mistake switching to the Ram Air manifolds. My engine ran well on the machine shop dyno: 340 H.P. @ 4,839 rpm and peak torque was 443 at 3,018 rpm. I will post my story on this 389 later on. However, all this power won't do any good if my starter wiring melts. 

As always, thanks for your input and Merry Christmas.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I've used the woven asbestos sleeving on my starter and solenoid cables. I had an experience 30+ years ago where the red wire wore through on the metal tube and almost started a nasty fire. The sleeve will keep the rubber insulation on the wires from rubbing bare against the metal tube if there is any movement/vibration. They also keep the heat at bay. The vendors sell the sleeving, which may or may not still be asbestos, but it will be fire and heat proof. Cheap insurance for peace of mind.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

It's kinda hard to make the wiring in this area "too safe"....


Bear


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## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

Yeah I am going to get some heat sheathing for the wiring and wrap it as it enters the tube and all the way to where it attaches to the solenoid. The replacement battery cable I got from Ames has some of the asphalt coated fabric around it. 


I wonder if it would help if I applied heat shrink tubing around the purple and red wires together from the point where it drops behind the alternator towards the fuel pump on the way to the tube.


Another matter is the clutch spring that attaches to the throw out arm. On the stock manifolds the pipe flange had a small hole where the end of the clutch release spring attached. The Ram Air/H.O. manifolds have heavier flanges without the hole. Thought about installing the lead pipe to the manifold and looking where the clutch spring would tough and mark the flange. I could take the pipe back off, remove the flange and drill a small hole in the flange on my mark.


Has anybody else installed H.O. manifolds on a '65 GTO? How did you install the clutch spring?


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## zrsteve (Aug 28, 2014)

I just hooked my spring to one of the flange bolts.


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## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

That's kind of what I was thinking zrsteve. I thought of using one of those exhaust manifold bolt locks behind a flange bolt and hooking the spring on the tabs that extend from it.


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## mdbs9337 (Jun 2, 2017)

I have a question that you may help with. I too am installing Ram Air IV manifolds on my 65 and was wondering if there will be any issues with frame interference. These manifolds are pretty big so just wondering before I try to put the engine back in the car.


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## zrsteve (Aug 28, 2014)

With the exception of re-routing the starter wire, which was more of an inconvenience I didn't have any issues.


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## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

It is a tight fit mdbs9337. The frame and suspension clears the manifolds. My primary concern is insulating the starter solenoid and the wiring going to it. I am on track to do that using all the appropriate items necessary to fit these manifolds on a '65 GTO.

One area you might want to watch is the front brake piping that runs around the engine saddle of the frame. I noticed some of my brake piping is really close to the manifolds. I am not sure if it will get too hot, or if it is something I need to worry about.


I have been slow to get back to my project, but I plan on wiring my starter solenoid this weekend. I have to cut and solder some wires to extend the wiring going to the solenoid. After that I can hang the lead pipes and finish installing the clutch linkage. It's all down hill after that - just in time for January in Nebraska.


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## mdbs9337 (Jun 2, 2017)

*Ram Air Manifolds*

Thanks for the reply and information. I was looking at the brake line also. Not sure if I am going to move it or insulate it. I'll know when I put the engine back in. I'm hoping to have it all back together by spring, which here in Maine isn't until late April if lucky. I'll post info and let you know how mine works out. Again thanks for the info.


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## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

Anybody run into a situation where the battery cable end won't fit into the cable tube on the way to the starter solenoid? The M&H battery cable I had to buy in order to use Ram Air exhaust manifolds won't fit the batter cable tube attached to the engine mount I had to buy in order to use Ram Air exhaust manifolds. It seems the curved cable end that attaches to the solenoid is too large to fit inside the tube. 

This is very frustrating. Do I have to grind away some of the cable end so it will clear the damn tube? 

I didn't expect the tube and cable to be an issue.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

extinctmake said:


> Anybody run into a situation where the battery cable end won't fit into the cable tube on the way to the starter solenoid? The M&H battery cable I had to buy in order to use Ram Air exhaust manifolds won't fit the batter cable tube attached to the engine mount I had to buy in order to use Ram Air exhaust manifolds. It seems the curved cable end that attaches to the solenoid is too large to fit inside the tube.
> 
> This is very frustrating. Do I have to grind away some of the cable end so it will clear the damn tube?
> 
> I didn't expect the tube and cable to be an issue.




Photos??????


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

I have the Ram Air manifolds on my 66 460 engine....I moved all those wires out of that tube. I run them like bear down behind the fuel pump, have them insulated with wrap and used a cable clamp, with rubber inside on an oil pan bolt goes right behind the motor mount.

Those tubes through the exhaust manifold are like ovens and lead to many cases of burned insulation and shorts. If you maintain car carefully it can work fine, but if you are not hung up on that routing there are “cooler” :nerd:s alternatives...


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## extinctmake (Feb 8, 2011)

Yeah, I went to take a photo and instead I actually got the cable through. I rolled the battery terminal end of the cable up and twist tied it. Then I rotated the cable around through the tube.

I thought about deleting the tube, but I tried to remove it in the car and it was locked in so tight I couldn't pull it out. I put the screws back in and went ahead and used it. 

I routed the red and purple solenoid wires around the alternator bracket in front the valve cover and dropped down behind the fuel pump and through the "microwave oven." I'll have to watch it this car season and see how it all fares. I have some heat sheathing I can use if this set up lets me down.


Thanks for the input everybody.


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