# Suspension almost done, here were its at so far



## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I got my custom alingment done yesterday after I installed my Lovells 20mm drop front springs with Pedders Comfort Gas struts.

Run down of mods:
- Lovells 340mm front and 350mm HD rear springs
- Lovells: Strut mount, Rear radius rod, Caster adjustable radius rod, front control arm bushings, diff insert
- Pedders Comfort Gas Shocks and Stuts
- Prothane front and rear swaybar bushings
- Energy Suspension Subframe bushings
- BMR drag bags-not used

- Energy Suspension rear control arm bushings not installed yet










During the two hour drive back home, the suspension felt good I could drive it for hours without being pounded around. I was asked why I didn't go with Pedders GSR shocks and struts, well I DD this car with some trips and occasional trips to the road course and mountain twisties. Right now this is how I like the car not too harsh and not too soft. Some say the Comfort Gas shocks/struts are too soft for them, for me its just right. The Comfort Gas shocks/struts are suppose to adjust for conditions, soft during normal driving and firm up during aggressive driving. I have yet to take it to the twisties to feel how it handles. Next on the list is Hotchkiss adjustable sway bars.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm sure you read that I'm a fan of replacing the rear control arm bushings. They were cheap and made a difference in the feel of control in the back end. Unfortunately the time to do them is when you put the rear subframe bushes. You'll enjoy what you've done for sure tho.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Yes you are a 100% correct. I kick myself in the butt for not doing the control arm bushings the sametime as the cross member bushings. I didn't realize that till the last minute. I'm going to wait until I get the sway bars so I can drop the subframe one last time.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

What did that all run you? Do you have the part numbers?

I'm looking long term at my GTO's suspension and I think next year I'll need to do something as I'll have 25-30k on it and I think some of the bits will start to be so worn that I'll have to replace them.

I've been looking at the Energy Bushings and some Pedders Stuff, but the information on what does what is so slim out there. (I just spent a good 30 minutes reading the sticky).

Suspensions are my automotive weakness I know nothing about them.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

LS2, I would go Lovells for struts/shocks/springs/RR bushing for front and rear/strut mounts/diff insert and then would do a Evergy Suspension master kit. I'm sure there will be a few random bushings that you may have to get throug Pedders or someone else, but this will get about 95% of your suspension done with high quality products for about $1500. Other route would be coilovers but they are rather pointless on a DD, atleast in my opinion. Kollar Racing has great pricing on Lovells and everything you would need is there. Evergy Suspension kits you get get at Advance Auto, eBay, ect.

Pedders, from what I've read, is supposed to be 'softer' so it might be nice for a DD. I've read many mixed things about how long the parts last and that alone is enough to make me steer clear as much as possible.




GM, I bet it drives really god now. My buddy did a full suspension upgrade to his and it handles great, but the ride is too harsh for my liking. Guess I got used to my caddy feeling blown suspension LOL


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I just started saving up for the Pedders Street XA package. I haven't heard anything about them wearing out rather quickly though. Suspensions are my automotive weakness as well, as LS2 stated.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

jpalamar said:


> LS2, I would go Lovells for struts/shocks/springs/RR bushing for front and rear/strut mounts/diff insert and then would do a Evergy Suspension master kit. I'm sure there will be a few random bushings that you may have to get throug Pedders or someone else, but this will get about 95% of your suspension done with high quality products for about $1500. Other route would be coilovers but they are rather pointless on a DD, atleast in my opinion. Kollar Racing has great pricing on Lovells and everything you would need is there. Evergy Suspension kits you get get at Advance Auto, eBay, ect.
> 
> Pedders, from what I've read, is supposed to be 'softer' so it might be nice for a DD. I've read many mixed things about how long the parts last and that alone is enough to make me steer clear as much as possible.
> 
> ...


The shocks/strut/springs are the big cost item (but you get a lot so not really I guess). So maybe $900 isn't too bad for a totally new set.

Why are Front Radius Rod Bushings so damn expensive! Same with Strut Mounts!

Does anyone know what's in a Master Kt? I see GM4life used only the subframe bushings from Energy but got control arm bushings from Lovells. Does the master kit cover those bushings? It looks like the Master Kit covers the sway bar bushings. (Energy's site is not helpful at all!)

The next question is what can you install yourself and what is going to have to be installed by a shop. I've replaced Springs, Shocks, and Struts on a Neon (McPherson up front, Twist Beam I think in Rear) so I think I can handle the shocks, struts, springs and the strut mount bushings. I replaced my Sway Bars on my Corvette so I think anything to do with the Sways I can figure out. But I have no idea on the rest of the bushings. I am pretty sure I can't do any of the bushings that require a cradle drop.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

LS2 MN6 said:


> The shocks/strut/springs are the big cost item (but you get a lot so not really I guess). So maybe $900 isn't too bad for a totally new set.
> 
> Why are Front Radius Rod Bushings so damn expensive! Same with Strut Mounts!
> 
> ...


1. cost alot because its a GTO and they can.

2. Energy Suspension master kit includes
•Front Control Arm Bushings
•Rear Control Arm Bushings
•Front Sway Bar Bushings
•Complete Sway Bar Bushings Set (if you plan on gettin afterkarmet sway bars some come with their own upgraded bushings, I know off hand SLP does)
•Rear Subframe Bushings Set 

3. You can do this yourself, just take it in for an allignment once your done.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

If you plan on doing your suspension your best bet is to buy it all at once or piece it together and do it all at once so your not doing double work. I get impation like a little kid and done things here and there. The bushings that made the biggest difference was the subframe, radius rod bushings next was the strut mounts. I got my front springs used with less than three months of use on them, the front contol arm bushings I got from a forum member for cheap. Most of the bushings didn't cost as much as they did a few years ago. As people started upgrading prices went up. I suggest doing all the bushings. Yes you may experiance an increase in NVH but its not that bad.

Lovells and Energy Suspension offers all of the bushings you need "cheaper" than other brands. Springs, shock/struts are a matter of preferance more than anything else. Your best bet if possable is find someone with different suspension setups and ride along to see how it feels. People opinons very and may steer you in different directions. I just went with best guess when selecting my suspension. Jerry(svede1212) was kind enough to PM me pictures of his Lovells 20mm drop. I like the way it looks, lowers the CG and higher than stock spring rates. I wanted more of a GT car more than a Vette car. 

Again I haven't replaced my rear lower control arm bushings yet, I can tell you they need to be pressed out. Svede can weigh in if he wants too on this matter, he has done them. Kollar Racing, Energy Suspension, Speed Inc, JHP, Wreched Motorsports are some places where you can shop for suspension components. My opinion if your heavy into drag racing get the Harrop diff cover over the diff insert. I'm not into drag racing but the diff insert works well for me on the road course and twisties. Energy suspension comes with a diff insert but its only a small half moon shape that does not fill in all the voids so I got a Lovells diff insert that does a better job at filling in all the voids.

Here is some threads that may help some
http://www.gtoforum.com/f39/front-end-now-99-poly-28625/
http://www.gtoforum.com/f39/replaced-front-control-arm-bushings-28050/


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

GM4life, thanks for all the info!

I saw in the one thread you had a tool to press out the bushing in the control arm. Where did you get that?

I'm buying some spring compressors for the front struts (I used them when I replaced struts before) so I know they work.

I assume when you say the rear lower control arms need to be pressed out, they would be similar to the front wishbone control arm where you pushed it out.

I'm always trying to add more tools to my collection.

BTW, I ordered the Energy Suspension Master Kit and I'll be collecting the Lovells pieces I need over the summer. I've looked at the rear and you need to drop the exhaust so I won't replace my exhaust until I plan on doing the entire rear end suspension as well so I can take the whole thing apart only once.

Did you have to drop the front cradle (or loosen it) to change out the sway bar bushings?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LS2 MN6 said:


> GM4life, thanks for all the info!
> 
> I saw in the one thread you had a tool to press out the bushing in the control arm. Where did you get that?
> 
> ...


The tool I used was a 1 1/2" pipe coupling you can also use a large deep well socket with the same long bolt, nut and washers combo that I used. The rear control arms are different than the front control arms, to do those bushings the cradle must be dropped. Do one side at a time to keep the alingment of the rear cradle. If you want to replace the sway bar this is the time to do it. To do the rear sway bar "D" bushings the cradle must be dropped and it is still a tight fit. The cradle doesn't have to be dropped in the front to do the front swaybar bushings, unless you are replacing the front swaybar.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

Good to know.

I'm guessing if you only drop one side of the rear cradle at a time that you would replace only one sway bar bushing at a time.

I think for the front end I can take the whole thing apart all at once (struts, control arm, radius rod, etc..) on both sides.

So it's a 5 stage project:

Front Replacements (Struts, Springs, Strut Mounts, Radius Rod Bushings, Control Arm Bushings, Sway Bar Bushings)
Rear Center Remove (Diff Mount, old Exhaust) 
Rear Right Replacements (Spring, Shock, Rear Radius, Sway Bar Bushing, Rear Control Arm Bushing, Rear Sub Frame Bushings)
Rear Left Replacements (Spring, Shock, Rear Radius, Sway Bar Bushing, Rear Control Arm Bushing, Rear Sub Frame Bushings)
Rear Center (Diff Insert, new Exhaust) Install

I can see this being an all-day affair. Then I'd need to take it in for an alignment.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

The rear radius bushings are in the front control arms.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

GM4life said:


> The rear radius bushings are in the front control arms.


So they mean rear of the front radius, not a radius in the rear?

See how much I know about suspensions!!!!


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LS2 MN6 said:


> So they mean rear of the front radius, not a radius in the rear?
> 
> See how much I know about suspensions!!!!


Don't worry, we all had to learn at some point.
This is the rear radius rod bushing:








The black one in the center is the new one. The blue one is the contol arm bushing.


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

I have pretty much done all the bushings in the car aswell except for the control arm bushings in the front. Was it a pita or did it went smoothley?





GM4life said:


> Don't worry, we all had to learn at some point.
> This is the rear radius rod bushing:
> 
> 
> ...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I had to pay someone to press out my control arm bushings and press the new(blue)pair in. The press that I had access to didn't have the proper tools needed to do the job. The rear radius rod bushings I made a tool to press those out you can use a large socket too to do the samething. The top picture don't show that I had took a razor and hacked up the face of it to make it easier to pull thru. It was easy, the hard part was torqueing the bolts with the weight on the car. I was told that wasen't nessary but I done so anyway. The alignment will be way off so an alignment needs to be done ASAP after installation.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

GM4life said:


> I had to pay someone to press out my control arm bushings and press the new(blue)pair in. The press that I had access to didn't have the proper tools needed to do the job. The rear radius rod bushings I made a tool to press those out you can use a large socket too to do the samething. The top picture don't show that I had took a razor and hacked up the face of it to make it easier to pull thru. It was easy, the hard part was torqueing the bolts with the weight on the car. I was told that wasen't nessary but I done so anyway. The alignment will be way off so an alignment needs to be done ASAP after installation.


Do you actually have to press out the old bushings?

It looks like you can use a knife and cut the flanges off, push out the center "tube" and just go to town with a drill or knife shredding the existing bushing.

The new ones I have are all two piece bushings so in theory they should just slide in.


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

I actually where thinking the same.. Well i have done the front RR bushing but not the rear. Think I will settle with the control arm bushing change but doesnt reallty want to do another 4 wheel calibration. But i Guess it is neccessary no mather what


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LS2 MN6 said:


> Do you actually have to press out the old bushings?
> 
> It looks like you can use a knife and cut the flanges off, push out the center "tube" and just go to town with a drill or knife shredding the existing bushing.
> 
> The new ones I have are all two piece bushings so in theory they should just slide in.


The time you've taken just to hack out the old bushing you could have spent a few pennies and got some hardware and made a press to get the Rear radius rod bushing out. In the picture you can see the scratch marks I've made with the razor knive to cut up the flanges. The old ones are pressed in, the new ones just slide in like you said. Plus its risky drilling on that bushing you could damage the smooth walls the bushings rest in.

The contol arm bushings(inner) are steel jacketed, I tried the "short-cut" way and try to torch and drill them out without luck. After several mins of torching and broken two cheap drill bits I had them pressed out. The new bushings are steel jacketed an looks to have a taper on them. You are not getting those in with your bare hands.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

I don't even know where I'd go to have them pressed out or what type of press I should even buy if I wanted to do it myself.


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## Fear The Spear (Mar 7, 2011)

Great looking car GM. New to the forum but not the site. Why the different bushing brands? Always had good luck with energy suspension but that was in the mustangs i used to own. Wasnt sure if one performed better than the other. Ive been reading around and wanted to do some exhaust mods, a tune, cai, etc. But after reading quite a few horror stories about the suspension thought maybe i should redirect my attention to it before any of the other goodies. Its my daily driver so not looking for too extreme but would like some durability. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Oh and what rims are those? Not sure if ive seen a better looking set. Again great looking car and thanks in advance


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Fear The Spear said:


> Great looking car GM. New to the forum but not the site. Why the different bushing brands? Always had good luck with energy suspension but that was in the mustangs i used to own. Wasnt sure if one performed better than the other. Ive been reading around and wanted to do some exhaust mods, a tune, cai, etc. But after reading quite a few horror stories about the suspension thought maybe i should redirect my attention to it before any of the other goodies. Its my daily driver so not looking for too extreme but would like some durability. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Oh and what rims are those? Not sure if ive seen a better looking set. Again great looking car and thanks in advance


Thanks!

In my mind I think poly is poly whomever makes it, hell I maybe wrong but I go were the deals are. Thats why I have a rainbow collection of bushings. My OEM suspension was OK I didn't have problems with mine I just wanted more out of it. I've put these bushing thru some extreams without problems. The wheels are BMW M6 replicas.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

I like my stock ride - A LOT - but know this will have to be done. Like you, I don't want harsh because a) I'm old, and b) stiff gives you very little warning you're at the edge.

With what you've done, how is the ride compared to stock; any new vibrations or sounds?


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

GM4Life how bad was the Rear Sub-Frame bushings? I've read horror stories of even doing one side at a time and the sub-frame not wanting to go back together.

Also I assume it's possible to change the Rear Control Arm bushings without removing the control arm. I don't want to disassemble the brakes and hub.

I think for the back I have to do the Sub-Frame Bushing (so remove the sway bar control links as part of that), followed by the Control Arm Bushings & Sway Bar Bushings (as I think with the control arm down you can get to the sway bushings, maybe this is done with the Sub-Frame bushing?), then springs, shocks, and finally reattach the sway bar links with the new bushings on them. After that, repeat on the other side.

I don't know if I should leave the diff connected this whole time or do the diff insert last. I'm pretty sure I want to do this with the frame jacked (the slats under the doors as the jack stand sports), and wheels off.

Of course after installing everything I have to hand tighten the whole thing, drop the car, exercise the suspension, raise it back up and then torque everything down.

BTW, I hate TTY bolts, $100 just for hardware brining my cost to about $1700 for parts.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Mike_V said:


> I like my stock ride - A LOT - but know this will have to be done. Like you, I don't want harsh because a) I'm old, and b) stiff gives you very little warning you're at the edge.
> 
> With what you've done, how is the ride compared to stock; any new vibrations or sounds?


Ride is subjective. For me its an improvment and not too harsh. If GM offered the GTO in FE3 suspension package it would be mine. Its not Corvette stiff but its alittle stiffer than stock. You feel the road alittle more than stock with the poly bushings.


LS2 MN6 said:


> GM4Life how bad was the Rear Sub-Frame bushings? I've read horror stories of even doing one side at a time and the sub-frame not wanting to go back together.
> 
> Also I assume it's possible to change the Rear Control Arm bushings without removing the control arm. I don't want to disassemble the brakes and hub.
> 
> ...


So far I've done two GTO's subframe bushings and both of them we needed to use a cargo strap to ratchet the one side back in place.

Yes you would support it by the frame the pinch welds slots. I did my diff insert last.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

If you don't think you need better bushings and springs than stock,
just get in a _TIGHT_ curve at about 80MPH and get on the binders _HARD_.
If that don't change your mind, nothing will.

Larry


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## n0b0dy1987 (Dec 1, 2010)

GM4life said:


> Ride is subjective. For me its an improvment and not too harsh. If GM offered the GTO in FE3 suspension package it would be mine. Its not Corvette stiff but its alittle stiffer than stock. You feel the road alittle more than stock with the poly bushings.
> 
> 
> So far I've done two GTO's subframe bushings and both of them we needed to use a cargo strap to ratchet the one side back in place.
> ...


Just wanted to say thanks. I've been having a hellavuh time trying to get mine back in place. Just realized i have a partially stripped thread in one of the subframe bolt holes as well. Less than half the threads though. Gonna get a tap tomorrow and try and work some magic.


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## n0b0dy1987 (Dec 1, 2010)

GM4life said:


> Ride is subjective. For me its an improvment and not too harsh. If GM offered the GTO in FE3 suspension package it would be mine. Its not Corvette stiff but its alittle stiffer than stock. You feel the road alittle more than stock with the poly bushings.
> 
> 
> So far I've done two GTO's subframe bushings and both of them we needed to use a cargo strap to ratchet the one side back in place.
> ...


also where did you attach the cargo strap to?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I used a come-a-long and attached it to the front subframe cradle. The big lever on the come-a-long makes it easy to finesse things into place.


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## n0b0dy1987 (Dec 1, 2010)

svede1212 said:


> I used a come-a-long and attached it to the front subframe cradle. The big lever on the come-a-long makes it easy to finesse things into place.


Perfect! Thank you! My dad actually has a come along that we were going to use so that works out pretty well. Just waiting on that thread tap from grainger that will be here tomorrow then I should be cookin with gas. Gotta get this thing back together soon because my leave is almost up and i gotta drive it back down to Louisiana where I'm stationed. Luckily grainger is pretty quick, expensive, but quick. The only company around here that could get it to me in a day. Thanks again.


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