# Just in: What really killed Pontiac



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

http://jalopnik.com/the-feds-killed-pontiac-bob-lutz-says-1452735716

Dammit!!

Bear


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

For those who wondered why it was Pontiac that was killed: According to a former GM executive in seminars he gives and I have personally attended and heard first hand, this news falls right in line with what he said in the seminars and in print in Pontiac publications: Part of this decision was made to appease the Chinese who revered the Buick brand as a symbol of status. This dates back to WWII when our military generals drove Buicks.

The Chicons viewed this as a sign of status, if you drive a Buick you were someone. Although poor decisions by GM and its mismanagement over the years certainly contributed to Pontiac’s demise, the decision to terminate Pontiac over Buick despite Pontiac outselling Buick was ordered by the Obama Administration. This was not a financial decision, it was a decision made to appease the Chicons. Revelations by Bob Lutz now come out.

Most also have no idea GM was caught breaking into the offices of Jim Mattison owner of PHS. Jim acquired all the Pontiac historical data legally in court many years ago. Pontiac Historical Services.

Jim got a call one night and was told GM broke into his offices to STEAL all the historical data on Pontiac. Jim arrived just in time with the Police to thwart the theft. Had he not, all historical data on Pontiac would have been destroyed.

Jim was harassed spied on followed and intimidated by GM as they filed suit to get back the information Jim acquired legally. Long story short, Jim and others liquidated personal autos etc to SAVE this information from being purged.

Jim WON in court.. however in the settlement, Jim agreed to eliminate the name Pontiac in the PHS........... The P is now an initial and is no longer recognized as PONTIAC.

If you ever have a chance to talk to Jim or attend one of his seminars you'd be surprised at just how far GM went to purge Pontiac from history. 

It's about time word from someone like LUTZ gets out....... Thank this Administration for Pontiac's elimination.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

A new redesigned GTO was on the horizon: 

Get Sad Because Bob Lutz Says Pontiac Was Going To Make A New GTO


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Thank this Administration for Pontiac's elimination.


Wasn't it the previous administration that initiated the bailout?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

HP11 said:


> Wasn't it the previous administration that initiated the bailout?


This administration ordered Pontiac gone, not Bush you have to go to a seminar to hear it from the mouth of someone there on the inside. Bush had nothing to do with Pontiac being killed despite what idols of this administration want to spin it. If you're implying Bush had something to with Pontiac's elimination on a bailout started in his term then I'd advise you to put your gauntlet of kool-aid down and wake up.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

So sad they killed Pontiac and kept Buick and GMC. :shutme

Buick is memorable for ....nothing, maybe the GN but that was a niche vehicle and GMC gimme a break no one would even notice if that went away or just make it an upgraded Chevy which is what it is already.

Pontiac did have a few bright spots at the end with it's Solstice; and the GTO and G8 were valiant tries to regain some lost muscle but inept management and marketing lost some sales there. To me what killed GM in the 90's was trying to put a different badge (Olds, Buick, Chevy, Pontiac) on each platform and they were all the same car, same powertrain and same suck quality. Pontiac Transport,G3 and Aztec I rest my case.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

HP11 said:


> Wasn't it the previous administration that initiated the bailout?


:agree

The writing was on the wall as you can see from the 11-18-08 Mitt Romney Op Ed prior to Obama becoming President;

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=0

The reasons for Pontiac's shutdown was announced 04-24-09, including the shutdown of many plants and the Saab, Hummer and Saturn brands. Saab, Pontiac, Hummer and Saturn only accounted for 3% of the U.S. auto market. What Lutz is saying is the same as what was reported 4.5 years ago.

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/04/pontiac_rip.html

The reasons Pontiac died and Buick survived,

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/...hy-pontiac-died-why-buick-will-succeed-85420/


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

For me, all that is just more sad commentary on what has been happening to the country for way too long. When you get down to it, the decision was mandated based on history - past performance - what happened last year and the year before. There was zero consideration given for future plans, direction, ambition, creativity, determination to take something and turn it around through some good old-fashioned hard work mixed in with some risk-taking.

It makes me a sad Bear to see how pervasive that attitude is nowadays.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Lutz talked to Car & Driver before the end of Pontiac about this very reason...sad...

Bill


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

GTO JUDGE said:


> This administration ordered Pontiac gone, not Bush you have to go to a seminar to hear it from the mouth of someone there on the inside. Bush had nothing to do with Pontiac being killed despite what idols of this administration want to spin it. If you're implying Bush had something to with Pontiac's elimination on a bailout started in his term then I'd advise you to put your gauntlet of kool-aid down and wake up.


No need to 'go there'. I just asked a question. No implication or 'gauntlet of kool-aid' what ever the hell that means. No desire to get involved in the politics. The rest of you can/will spin that out of control without my help......

05GTO....thank you for your response.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I didn't intent to start a war, just sharing information that was brand new to me. Apparently it was common knowledge and I've been living under a rock or something...


Bear


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Bear, I understand that. I merely asked a siimple question attemting to clarfy information I had heard on the subject with no intention at all to politicize. I really didn't understand the response. Apparently my intention was misinterpreted. Surely wouldn't be the first time. The written word can be tricky sometimes......


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

GM was deep in debt and headed for chapter 7, their funding had been cut off with the stock market and banking crash. If the Obama administration had not offered the Chapter 11 reorganization the only U.S. automaker that would have survived would be Ford.

Typically, a chapter 11 requires the elimination of unprofitable divisions within an organization. A chapter 7 is complete liquidation of the assets to satisfy the creditors.

There were several members of congress who were seeking chapter 7.

JMHO,


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## Kingmanbc (Apr 28, 2012)

Whoever supports No Bama needs to look in the mirror. / rant


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Kingmanbc said:


> Whoever supports No Bama needs to look in the mirror. / rant


That adds so much to the discussion


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