# What's the difference between the GTO and the judge



## psilentchild (Oct 3, 2012)

I was originally looking at getting a 70 Chevelle or 69 Firebird, then I saw a 69 GTO and now I want one. However, I don't know the difference between just a regular gto and the judge. I see that the judge cost more and has a wing on the back. What else is the difference and is it worth paying the extra money. I'm looking to restore one. Sorry if this is a stupid question.


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## RoyW (May 1, 2012)

The Judge has stripes, Judge insignia, the wing. Also the have the top of the line motors and transmissions.They cost more than the regular gto's because they are fewer made. The value restored is considerably higher then the standard gto.Definitely worth the extra price. 

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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Be veeeery careful. The total number of Judges that you can find out there for sale far exceeds the total number that Pontiac built. Translation: there are a lot of fake ones. If you're looking for an investment, then a rare-optioned, original, numbers-matching car is going to be the best move as long as you can buy it at the right price.

If you're looking for personal enjoyment primarily and don't care so much about resale value, then don't worry about any of that - buy a car that appeals to you, is in the condition that fits your skill level, resources, and interest as far as doing your own work, then do whatever you like to make it "yours".

My 69 GTO is solidly in the second category. It's numbers matching and "original" (translation: I still have all the original parts that came on the car from the factory even though they aren't all ON the car right now.) However, it wasn't "anything special" other than being a real GTO. It had the "normal" GTO engine which was a YS-code 400 rated at 350 HP, automatic transmission, 3.23:1 non-limited-slip rear axle, A/C, power disc brakes, power steering, vinyl top, and AM radio. In terms of total production numbers there were probably more 69 GTO's made like mine than any other combination. However, when I "restored" it I nuked the vinyl top, put in a Moser 9" rear with 3.50 gears and Wavetrac posi unit, aftermarket suspension, exhaust, 4-wheel disc brakes, and "warmed up" the engine considerably. Result: "MY" GTO does very well at shows, gets tons of admiring looks and comments from "the public", and has run a best quarter-mile to date of 11.86 @ 113 mph. It's also very doubtful that it would bring as much in its present state at auction as it would if it were still 100% original. Not too long ago I saw a 69 GTO pretty much like mine was originally, still all original and in very good condition, cross the auction block and sell for just over $18,000. I've spent more than double that amount just building my car. But I don't care about any of that. I built it to please me, not someone else, and I don't ever plan on selling it.

So, it's your call.

Bear


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## psilentchild (Oct 3, 2012)

That's funny the guy from gas monkey garage said the same thing last night about a 67 corvette stingray. It doesn't matter to me about being numbers matching. I don't plan on selling either.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Richard basically gave that stingray away for $35K, I believe that was the price...

If you don't care about numbers matching, buy a '69 GTO and clone it to a Judge if that's the look you want. Just always be straight up that it's not real if you do sell. You say you wont sell now, but time can change things...


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## psilentchild (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah he sold it for 35k. I know what you mean, I had a 55 dodge that I wasn't planning on selling, but was forced to sell it for a whole lot least than what I paid for it. I'm going to look for a GTO and just customize it the way I like. I like racing stripes, but can't seem to find any pictures of any GTO's with racing stripes. Is this vehicle not common with racing stripes?


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## porkandbeans (Jul 24, 2012)

Racing stripes, that's the Chevelle guy coming out in you. No, racing stripes are not popular on GTO's. I seen it before and i believe it was a dealers special option or something. It was a single wider stripe. Wow, that's going back in the memory bank. BTW, I don't consider Judge stripes as racing stripes. 
It's a lot easier to clone a Judge from a GTO, than it is a GTO from a Le Mans. It sounds like you'll be happy with a basic GTO, modded or not. If you do find an all original numbers matching car, it would be a shame to ruin it. Just my opinion.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Lemans, GTO and Judges are all built on the identical chassis, bang for the buck is on the Lemans, 64-67 is just emblems and tail panel to convert to GTO, 68 to 72 is a front end kit, endura bumper to convert. Vins are different between them and obvious for clones. I think "we" are appreciating pro touring cars, and the build quality, and actually demand more money than some dead stock GTO's and Judges, and drive far better than the original cars. I think muscle cars are a great investment right now with the economy weak. Wait til the economy comes back with the devalued dollars, we'll be laughing at thinking $30K in a car was huge, like back in the 70's $5K was a ton of money for a car.. Hopefully 10 years from now the downed economy and all this crap will be behind us, dought it though.


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## psilentchild (Oct 3, 2012)

Lol. I guess it is the chevelle in me. I have 2 colors I like and I guess I will have to make it work on the GTO. I want to my car whenever I get it candy brandywine and alabaster.


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## GhostTown (Jan 25, 2011)

Brandywine sounds nice.


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Looks good too, IMHO.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

psilentchild said:


> That's funny the guy from gas monkey garage said the same thing last night about a 67 corvette stingray.


I'm not sure about that guy or the show... they were talking about how the car was an original 427 with 3x2's, then they showed an engine shot of a small block wearing a Holley...

Seems to me like they're all about flipping cars on the cheap - which is ok I guess if that's your thing, but I think it reflects poorly on the hobby. I'm more impressed by craftsmanship and taking the time/effort to do something right.

Bear


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## EagleGoat (Jun 6, 2012)

The only thing I've seen them do "right" was the restomod on the ford truck, and the gasser.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

That's the big thing nowadays is flippin'. Whether it be cars, homes, pawn shops, these storage wars shows, antiques(allegedly), whatever. Any way to make a fast buck. Invest minimal amount on the initial purchase/fix up and flip for the biggest profit you can squeeze from an unsuspecting buyer.


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

psilentchild said:


> Yeah he sold it for 35k. I know what you mean, I had a 55 dodge that I wasn't planning on selling, but was forced to sell it for a whole lot least than what I paid for it. I'm going to look for a GTO and just customize it the way I like. I like racing stripes, but can't seem to find any pictures of any GTO's with racing stripes. Is this vehicle not common with racing stripes?





porkandbeans said:


> Racing stripes, that's the Chevelle guy coming out in you. No, racing stripes are not popular on GTO's. I seen it before and i believe it was a dealers special option or something. It was a single wider stripe. Wow, that's going back in the memory bank. BTW, I don't consider Judge stripes as racing stripes.
> It's a lot easier to clone a Judge from a GTO, than it is a GTO from a Le Mans. It sounds like you'll be happy with a basic GTO, modded or not. If you do find an all original numbers matching car, it would be a shame to ruin it. Just my opinion.


I have seen Chevelle style racing stripes on LeMans(some like mine) and 71-72's. But yeah, Hardly ever on a GTO. 

IMO, they look good on the LeMans since they have flat hoods. GTO Hoods look kinda funny with those kinds of stripes on them.


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## psilentchild (Oct 3, 2012)

I was thinking something more a long the lines like this 69 firebird.


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