# shocks recommendation



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Any recommendation of shocks to use with UMI 1" lowering springs (front and rear)?

2 of the 4 KYB gas-a-just I put on my car 3 months ago are already blown out and leaking oil, sio not interested in KYB!


----------



## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

yeah, KYB isn't as good as they once were. I heard a few stories about their "blowing out". 
I also have the UMI 1" lowering springs and went with Bilstein shocks. Next best thing to Konis.


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Thanks. I'm looking at Bilstein right now actually. Which ones did you go with, the B6 models?








BILSTEIN SHOCK ABSORBER SET,FRONT & REAR SHOCKS,64-67 GM A-BODY,MONOTUBE,GAS | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BILSTEIN SHOCK ABSORBER SET,FRONT & REAR SHOCKS,64-67 GM A-BODY,MONOTUBE,GAS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Did you have any issues with shock travel or ride quality on 1" lowered springs?

These Bilsteins also came up, but they are a bit mysterious as I cannot find any reviews or deals on them anywhere:









1964-67 GM A Body Bilstein Front & Rear Shocks | eBay


Push your muscle car into supercar territory with our new line ofBilstein® High Performance Shock Absorbers ! These shocks use the latest in suspension technology, including Teflon® coated surfaces for reduced friction andBilstein ®'s patented digressive valving!



www.ebay.com





They are both a bit spendy, but the ride quality of my KYBs currently is garbage and there seems to be no middle ground between low end Monroe and Gabriel and super high end Hotchkiss and QA1 besides the Bilsteins...


----------



## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Its been a couple years since I bought them. Car is still going through restoration so no evaluation yet. My differential guy recommended them. He has the B6 shock and the UMI 1" lowering springs on his Chevelle. 
They fit fine on my 68 after I painted them grey.


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

O52 said:


> Its been a couple years since I bought them. Car is still going through restoration so no evaluation yet. My differential guy recommended them. He has the B6 shock and the UMI 1" lowering springs on his Chevelle.
> They fit fine on my 68 after I painted them grey.


Cool, yeah, not a fan of the yellow (on a shock, that is). Thanks.

KYB were so bad I went out to my car and saw a puddle by the inner rear wheel. thought I had brake hose failure, but it was the shock actively leaking oil.then a front one failed a few weeks later. pretty terrible. can't find my receipt, so no warranty either...bummer!


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As you know, I use all Bilsteins as well, with a "No-Bind" lower shock mount in the rear. I don't see using the stock length as being an issue with the lowered spring.


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

armyadarkness said:


> As you know, I use all Bilsteins as well, with a "No-Bind" lower shock mount in the rear. I don't see using the stock length as being an issue with the lowered spring.


just took the plunge on RCD Bilsteins (ouch). 

Trying to get all this done in the driveway next week I think ( front control arms, springs and shocks on 4 corners, 4 wheel disc conversion, installing new 9" rear, new front center link and tie rods). Got myself a nice impact wrench and air ratchet off craigslist. Gonna instal it all then tow it to a local shop to plumb the brake lines and bleed the system and modify the driveshaft.

Hope it all goes smoothly (it won't)!


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

ylwgto said:


> just took the plunge on RCD Bilsteins (ouch).
> 
> Trying to get all this done in the driveway next week I think ( front control arms, springs and shocks on 4 corners, 4 wheel disc conversion, installing new 9" rear, new front center link and tie rods). Got myself a nice impact wrench and air ratchet off craigslist. Gonna instal it all then tow it to a local shop to plumb the brake lines and bleed the system and modify the driveshaft.
> 
> Hope it all goes smoothly (it won't)!


Yeah... Bilsteins are pricey, but at least when you drive down the road, you know where the money went. 

You can do upper and lower fronts, 4 coils and shocks, in a day... on your back, in the driveway. Heck, if God (and daylight) is on your side, you can even get the rear arms in. 

The right spring compressor is a BIG HELP! 
The driverside, lower, rear bolt will fight you, so get it first! Have spare bolts on hand, in case you have to cut some to get them off!
Have a cheap air chisel with the ball joint separator attachment, and wd40. It'll knock out bolts and save you hours!
When you get to the upper arm nuts, bang out the studs for header clearance, or spin them if you can't. The new arms will provide wrench access (should) for alignments, so the press fit isnt so critical.


----------



## Khmike (Jun 21, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> As you know, I use all Bilsteins as well, with a "No-Bind" lower shock mount in the rear. I don't see using the stock length as being an issue with the lowered spring.


Older thread, I know - but directly related to a current event. With new shocks installed in the rear of my '68, I can see why folks opt for the "no-bind" add-ons; I ordered / received a pair of Spohn adapters.
The specific question I have was likely already answered but I can't find it, regarding the new Bilstein's with an integrated bolt on the lower mount. Did anyone here successfully cut-off the bolt or Dremel / grind off the (non-bolt) end from the shock so the Spohn bolt would fit correctly in the existing rubber bushing?

My hope is to not remove the original (fixed / lower) bolt only to find that is won't work with the adapter.

Hope this makes sense. T.I.A.

~Khmike


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

ylwgto said:


> Any recommendation of shocks to use with UMI 1" lowering springs (front and rear)?
> 
> 2 of the 4 KYB gas-a-just I put on my car 3 months ago are already blown out and leaking oil, sio not interested in KYB!


BILSTEIN rules, but that built-in stud is a pain in the ass!


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Khmike said:


> Older thread, I know - but directly related to a current event. With new shocks installed in the rear of my '68, I can see why folks opt for the "no-bind" add-ons; I ordered / received a pair of Spohn adapters.
> The specific question I have was likely already answered but I can't find it, regarding the new Bilstein's with an integrated bolt on the lower mount. Did anyone here successfully cut-off the bolt or Dremel / grind off the (non-bolt) end from the shock so the Spohn bolt would fit correctly in the existing rubber bushing?
> 
> My hope is to not remove the original (fixed / lower) bolt only to find that is won't work with the adapter.
> ...


Yes I did it. I cut off the built-in Bilstein Bolt and I believe that I pressed a new bushing into the shock from Napa. It was a bit of a pain in the ass for sure but not difficult


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> BILSTEIN rules, but that built-in stud is a pain in the ass!


But that color, that would be fine for a 4x4 with a lift. I have KYB gas adjust and they seem good, had one rear leak a little bit but nothing since, maybe I extended it to far changing the rear end idk. The next tier after Blistien is out of this world expensive.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Considering the way the Bilstein shocks perform, I wouldnt care if they were pink and had the Power Puff Girls on them


----------



## Greek64GTO (Dec 13, 2015)

The color of the Bilsteins seems to be an issue I can understand (yellow). No problem on a Spec Miata I run with coil-overs. Thought of painting GTO shocks either black or grey. 

I spotted Black Bilsteins in Google Images.

Here is just one vendor of many that have them. I am not sure on the specs of this shock in relation to the other Bilsteins. Just food for thought and another option.

Rear BLACK Bilsteins

Front Early BLACK Bilsteins

Front Later BLACK Bilsteins


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Not necessarily a recommendation, but I'm running shocks from Strange. Double adjustable on the rear, single adjustable on the front. They've been on the car for a little over 10 years at this point and they're still fine. 

Bear


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Greek64GTO said:


> The color of the Bilsteins seems to be an issue I can understand (yellow). No problem on a Spec Miata I run with coil-overs. Thought of painting GTO shocks either black or grey.
> 
> I spotted Black Bilsteins in Google Images.
> 
> ...


The Bilstein site says the black ones are stock replacements, yellow/blue are upgraded handling and some are for lowered cars.


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

BTW, I ended up not going with Bilsteins and getting the Hotchkis 1.5 shocks. They are AWESOME!


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

ylwgto said:


> BTW, I ended up not going with Bilsteins and getting the Hotchkis 1.5 shocks. They are AWESOME!


Are they the adjustable type? Do you think they are better than the KYB Gas Adjust ?


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Not adjustable, but they are mfg by Fox for Hotchkiss and tuned specifically for A body cars. 



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-70020012



WAAAY better than KYB. I installed KYB gas adjust first and the 2 rear shocks blew cylinders within a week and leaked oil. Digging into reviews, this seems to be a more common issue of late with them. Maybe slip ups in QC over there. 

That aside, the ride quality and handling are on another level with the Hotchkiss shocks. They are marginally more expensive, but I am super pleased and it was worth the extra couple hundo. They also work well with slightly lowered cars, per a chat with the manufacturer, which KYB do not.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

ylwgto said:


> Not adjustable, but they are mfg by Fox for Hotchkiss and tuned specifically for A body cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine are from 2018 and I did have one rear leak a tiny bit but nothing since so Idk if that makes it toast, mine is lowered an inch in front with UMI springs and stock in rear. I wonder if the adjustables are worth the extra money and what they would do for the ride? These seam cheaper than QA1 or some others and they're not blue and yellow  Damn first I want new valve covers and now these sound good...time to up the Paypal credit limit I guess


----------



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

I don't have any experience with the adjustables. I imagine you could really dial in the ride and change between cruising and autocross stiffness, but that was more than I needed. These fit he bill and have been excellent so far. also, color is perfectly subtle...


----------



## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

How much more are the adjustables?🤔
And how do they ‘dial’ in?


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jetzster said:


> How much more are the adjustables?🤔
> And how do they ‘dial’ in?


Here's from Summit, quite a difference. There's a nut it looks like you turn so many clicks up to 22 on the front not sure on the rear, it controls the rebound motion.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I went last night and bounced the car pretty good front and back and it hardly moves so idk if I'm going to get 600-800.00 worth of better handling especially with soft drag radials and skinnys up front, not the best combo for handling....passing on a shock upgrade for now.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Not that I am a shock expert or anything, but non-adjustable shocks are meant for OEM applications where many cars are made with the same shock needs and one shock fit's the bill across that particular pruduction model. How many of our cars are still stock and in like-new condition? Next to none, right? But, many are still close...So, a set of the yellow non-adjustable Bilsteins would work well for most of us, but not perfect if your picky. I'm leaning towards the Bilteins for my resto-mod build, but could go with adjsutables if the budget proves to be in good shape when it's time to buy. I would still plan on dialing them in initially, then leaving them put.

Single adjustable shocks would fit the bill better given that the car is driven in a similar fashion most all of the time. The single adjustment knob actually adjusts the rebound and compression stroke of the shock with prescribed pairs of adjustments. This approach allows the end user several different combos that the manufacture believes will cover the user's basic desires. The prescribed pairs of settings typically cover driving habits from moderate drag racing to the occasional rally racing with some options for standard driving practices. Not a bad deal for your average wanna-be-warrior.

The double adjustable shocks take it a few steps further by allowing the user to fine tune both shock rebound and compression separately, AND with finer increments. Many single adjustables have a set number of combos, like 10 to 20. While many double adjustables have well over 200 combinations. These are for those that really want to shave fractions of a second off, change from street to strip to road racing, OR just love to tune their cruiser along with spending some excess funds.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

So I've still been contemplating a shock upgrade seeing that my KYB's are nothing special and that I could use all the traction I can get when I track it. I talked to techs at Strange, QA1 and Hotchkis, the Strange tech said there's are more for drag than the QA1's, the problem with both of those is you have to open up the shock hole on a stock lower control arm to clear the adjuster knob, and then to adjust them they said reach inside the spring to turn the knob, well I looked last night and there's no way I'm reaching that knob as it's right above the T bar so now I'm unbolting the shock every time I want to adjust it? no way. Hotchkis said there's are more suited for street use but loosening the valves all the way on race day will decrease the rebound and compression enough, and there shock adjustment valve for the front is on top of the stud coming through the upper control arm...very easy to get to. Another thing I noticed and if someone has Strange or QA1's they can weigh in but there's no offset mount for the rear shocks on the bottom mount, they said they are made for these cars so there shouldn't be a problem but I looked and the body of the shock will come in contact of the mount plate before the eye hole so idk how that's supposed to work and you have to supply the bolts. Not the Hotchkis, they have a bolt in the shock bottom mount. Jeg's still has there 50.00 promo for this amount that's wetting my appetite, anybody running the Hotchkis single adjustable shocks or know anything more about them? Sorry don't want the blue and yellow ones, I would like some adjustable ones.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> So I've still been contemplating a shock upgrade seeing that my KYB's are nothing special and that I could use all the traction I can get when I track it. I talked to techs at Strange, QA1 and Hotchkis, the Strange tech said there's are more for drag than the QA1's, the problem with both of those is you have to open up the shock hole on a stock lower control arm to clear the adjuster knob, and then to adjust them they said reach inside the spring to turn the knob, well I looked last night and there's no way I'm reaching that knob as it's right above the T bar so now I'm unbolting the shock every time I want to adjust it? no way. Hotchkis said there's are more suited for street use but loosening the valves all the way on race day will decrease the rebound and compression enough, and there shock adjustment valve for the front is on top of the stud coming through the upper control arm...very easy to get to. Another thing I noticed and if someone has Strange or QA1's they can weigh in but there's no offset mount for the rear shocks on the bottom mount, they said they are made for these cars so there shouldn't be a problem but I looked and the body of the shock will come in contact of the mount plate before the eye hole so idk how that's supposed to work and you have to supply the bolts. Not the Hotchkis, they have a bolt in the shock bottom mount. Jeg's still has there 50.00 promo for this amount that's wetting my appetite, anybody running the Hotchkis single adjustable shocks or know anything more about them? Sorry don't want the blue and yellow ones, I would like some adjustable ones.


If traction is your goal, before you swap shocks, what other suspension mods did you do?

Did you already add boxed/ reinforced/ tubular arms? Have you done anything to improve articulation?

If not, shocks wont help much at all.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> If traction is your goal, before you swap shocks, what other suspension mods did you do?
> 
> Did you already add boxed/ reinforced/ tubular arms? Have you done anything to improve articulation?
> 
> If not, shocks wont help much at all.


Up front, UMI 1" lowering springs, 15/16" anti sway bar...out back 12 bolt, UMI stock height performance springs, 1" anti sway bar, SSM lift bars, reinforced upper arms. I'm not replacing all the arms up front and it's only going to see the track very seldom who knows maybe only one and done idk so the shock upgrade is for the street and then if I do track it I have some adjustment that maybe will help a little with weight transfer.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Strictly concerned about the rear suspension. Not only do the factory arms have some serious deflection, but what's more important than the arms is the bushings. The rears of our cars have a ton of binding, which is where the wheel hop and lack of traction originate.

Spherical/ roto bushings and bearings, will give you gobs of traction.

My buddy and I put a few hundred miles on my car over the weekend, and he's a hardcore/ veteran drag racer, with two prostreet Chevelles. We spent hours in the car, doing burnouts through the gears, drifting, and powersliding. He couldnt believe that all I had were 80% bald, 235/60/15 BFGs out back.

As @PontiacJim mentioned to me early on in my build, when I was complaining that I was having trouble doing burn outs, my rear suspension was set up so well that the car just hooked and took off. He was spot-on.

Just boxing the arms isnt enough.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Strictly concerned about the rear suspension. Not only do the factory arms have some serious deflection, but what's more important than the arms is the bushings. The rears of our cars have a ton of binding, which is where the wheel hop and lack of traction originate.
> 
> Spherical/ roto bushings and bearings, will give you gobs of traction.
> 
> ...


I could replace the stock upper arms and bushings I suppose but the lower ones have greased poly bushings and are boxed so those should articulate, we'll see how things go with this set up if I get to the track this fall. If it goes bad I'll pull out my "Hook and Launch" book. Also I'm running about 500hp and 530lbs tq so idk if you had that it would hook as good as you are now


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I'm running about 500hp and 530lbs tq so idk if you had that it would hook as good as you are now


Right, but I have bald 235's... So if I ran drag tires, it would be a game changer.

This platform is notorious for wheel hop and articulation issues. There is no tire and shock combo that's going to change that, which is why so many companies offer completely redesigned rear suspensions for GM A Bodies.

After all, a stock 69 GTO with 340 hp would roast the tires all day long... and to combat that, everyone put big fat tires on them... but then air shocks to accommodate the tires, which in turn killed traction again. 

I know that most of you are likely sick of me going on and on about Global West... Well not for nothing, but the guy who owns GW did design all of this crap, on your car. And I suspect that his HP is quite a bit higher than yours, as well.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Suspension binding


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Pre loading


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Good info, is that what you have the articulating control arm mounts? These seem more geared towards cornering but still I can see where they would let the diff move up and down giving you more bite. Sure wish I would have addressed this before I installed the diff but I had to many other places for the money. If I got those kind of upper arms I should be in good shape as I have nice lower arms, springs and triangulation bars plus if I upgrade the shocks.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> These seem more geared towards cornering


Whenever discussing suspension, the primary objective is to keep the tires planted squarely on the road. In the case of the A body, geometry, weight distribution, and binding prevent that, and that's what all of these parts are designed to address.

The fact that the 65 GTO in the video isnt loosing traction, under the worst conditions that any of us could ever imagine, is telling. If he's not loosing traction on that course, he sure as Hell wont lose it in a straight line.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

FAQ - Chassis/Suspension/Steering: GTO SUSPENSION...


GM A Bodies/ Pontiac GTO's have a ton of room for improvement in their suspensions. Putting aside personal preferences for ride height and quality, if you want a car that: Handles better Brakes better Steers better Has no wheel hop Has increased traction Recovers quickly from burnouts and loss...




www.gtoforum.com


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

How much more important are the articulating joints vs adjustable arms that just have a bushing to move up and down since I'm not road coursing it, in your opinion?


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> How much more important are the articulating joints vs adjustable arms that just have a bushing to move up and down since I'm not road coursing it, in your opinion?


Like I said, try to stop looking at handling and traction as two separate issues. Traction is the lions share of handling... if your car doesnt loose traction when you're on the throttle in a turn, then it's not going to lose it going straight.

Adjustable upper arms are merely for pinion angle and preload adjustments. Theyll aid in traction, because they'll contribute toward improved geometry, but they're really at the bottom of the list when shopping for A body improvements.

Articulation is king. Which is why your 500hp car, which is lucky to be getting 2/3 of that to the wheels, cant get traction, but 700hp Hell Cat can.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> How much more important are the articulating joints vs adjustable arms that just have a bushing to move up and down since I'm not road coursing it, in your opinion?


Not that I have upgraded my suspension, Yet...I have been researching the aspects of it. IMO, adjustable lower arms are to help set the tire in the wheel well (front to back) and rear end tracking (or alignment), upper adjustable arms are to change the pinion angle. Changing the a pinion angle may be needed when you change the wheel location in the well (this changes the previous pinion angle depending on how far you moved the rear diff, but is it enough to need the dial the pinion angle back in? - probably) and if the geometry of the OEM drive line has been modified (raised or lowered suspension or engine/transmission angle). If a person likes the wheel location and does not have any side to side angular alignment issues...the adjustable lowers are not needed. If the pinion angle is acceptable or the owner does not intend to change it for racing purposes and then back to street driving...adjstable uppers are not needed either.

This leaves the joints or bushings as the key areas to improve. I think the fancy joints and shock relocators are much more important than the adjustable bars given good rear diff angles. They improve upon an already acceptable static geometry. My car is so far from being complete that I will get all the parts (adjustable bars with the articulating joints and shock relocators) as insurance that I don't end up needing to change the rear diff angles and have to sell non-adjustable parts and rebuy the adjustable. In Bad's position...I think his car is done and he is wanting to improve what he has. This is a good place to be since you know how your static geometry is already. 

If you are happy with the wheel location and pinion angle, spend your money on the joints, not the adjustable bars.

If you love to spend money and tinker, getting the adjustable bars with fancy joints will be your thing.

The "rod end" joints seem to be more suited for racing. They require regular greasing by smearing and moving them through the motions, are cheaper, and function well with little to no slop.

The "roto" joints are more for the average hot-rodder since they have grease zerts that allow less frequent and less cumbersome greasing. The greased portions are also covered and protected from the elements. They cost more, but should be longer lasting given normal driving and the occasional mashing of the go-pedal.

I am leaning towards the "roto" joints as UMI calls them. I have not decided to buy from UMI just yet, but that style is what I am liking. I just know I will neglect getting under the car a few times a year to grease the unprotected rod end joints. When you are a racer, you are under there often making adjustments and greasing them is practically a given.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Sick467 said:


> This leaves the joints or bushings as the key areas to improve.


I agree... and that has been my experience.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Sick467 said:


> In Bad's position...I think his car is done and he is wanting to improve what he has.


If I had to do it all over again, on a budget, I'd box my own arms and then use the rotojoints and bearings to get maximum articulation.

Ya'll know I spend a TON of time driving my car, and lord knows I don't light-foot around with it. I go far out of my way to break it loose and throw it sideways, and while the engine has the HP to do it at my will, the car simply wants to recover on it's own and GO!

Trust me, when I was building the car I spent *months* on the forums and in stores, trying to determine maximum tire size, because I naturally assumed that the new Tremec was going to destroy the 235/60/15's. I was sure that I'd need 275's in order to keep any tread... but it's simply not the case.

My car is _now_ a complete maniac, on demand, in any gear, from stop to 120 mph. And even with the 235's being almost bald... I can't justify replacing them, because they work so well.

All this being said... Im not looking a gift horse in the mouth. The Abody was a very lacking performance platform, and Im grateful that my combination is working. For me to have veteran chevelle racers in my car, speechless and astonished with my traction and cornering, is very reassuring.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Good info, so lower lift arms are staying and didn't change wheel position, my pinion angle is good so maybe I'll look into non adjustable upper arms but just deciding if I need the articulating joint or a standard nylon bushed one, I don’t drive it that much and don't mind greasing it once a year. Just getting the old tight rubber bushings changed to ones that move should help. What a fun job that will be with the diff installed....should'a could'a would'a.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> ...but just deciding if I need the articulating joint or a standard nylon bushed one, ...


Both the tie-rod and roto style joints articulate. I'm not sure what you mean by nylon bushed joints??? I will be going with articulating joints, not the rubber or polyurethane stock replacements. The articulation is where you get the bang for the buck. I believe the roto style joints use Delrin in the spherical joint.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Here's what I mean.1964-1967 GM A-Body Tubular Rear Upper Control Arms - UMI Performance Inc.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I don’t drive it that much and don't mind greasing it once a year. Just getting the old tight rubber bushings changed to ones that move should help. What a fun job that will be with the diff installed....should'a could'a would'a.


Youve been complaining about traction, since Ive known you, and I doubt you wish to do the job twice... so why no just get the right stuff and then enjoy it? Only reason not to, is money, and this is a way better investment than $900 valve covers and $1600 breathers.

BTW, I did my car with the diff in.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Here's what I mean.1964-1967 GM A-Body Tubular Rear Upper Control Arms - UMI Performance Inc.


Those are a slight improvement over stock. They have polyurethane bushings that are more firm, they are greaseable (nice), and they are tubular-cool (probably stronger than stock)...but they don't' do anything to improve binding. This is the style that helps with the binding issues that are inherent to our A-bodies. It does this by allowing the joint to pivot and pivot freely rather than twist and squish polyurethane...









1964-1967 GM A-Body Tubular Rear Upper Control Arms- Roto-Joints - UMI Performance Inc.


UMI’s tubular upper control arms utilize our Roto-Joint technology for a bind free performance and quiet comfortable ride quality. The




www.umiperformance.com


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Sick467 said:


> Those are a slight improvement over stock. They have polyurethane bushings that are more firm, they are greaseable (nice), and they are tubular-cool (probably stronger than stock)...but they don't' do anything to improve binding. This is the style that helps with the binding issues that are inherent to our A-bodies. It does this by allowing the joint to pivot and pivot freely rather than twist and squish polyurethane...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Spot on.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Youve been complaining about traction, since Ive known you, and I doubt you wish to do the job twice... so why no just get the right stuff and then enjoy it? Only reason not to, is money, and this is a way better investment than $900 valve covers and $1600 breathers.
> 
> BTW, I did my car with the diff in.


But that was for two breathers and aren't they sweet


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sick467 said:


> Those are a slight improvement over stock. They have polyurethane bushings that are more firm, they are greaseable (nice), and they are tubular-cool (probably stronger than stock)...but they don't' do anything to improve binding. This is the style that helps with the binding issues that are inherent to our A-bodies. It does this by allowing the joint to pivot and pivot freely rather than twist and squish polyurethane...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok well that clears things up thanks, probably going to have to wait another season....I've spent enough. What brand is everyone liking these days?


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Ok well that clears things up thanks, probably going to have to wait another season....I've spent enough. What brand is everyone liking these days?


My "to buy" list for the suspension parts has Global West, UMI, & Spohn on it. I doubt that I buy all the parts from the same company, but rather split it up between them. This is not due to price, but rather my perception of quality, form, fit, & function. I like all these folks because they are American made...that means more and more to me everyday!

Some examples...

UMI's front lower A-arms have their name laser cut in them...I don't like that!

Global West's bump steer correction parts look more original, but the others are more adjustable.

I can't remember who at this time, but one of them offers a nice kit with some savings compared to the other's individual parts.

Baaaad, remind me later and I can share my comparison list with you. It's in my shop on my other computer.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sick467 said:


> My "to buy" list for the suspension parts has Global West, UMI, & Spohn on it. I doubt that I buy all the parts from the same company, but rather split it up between them. This is not due to price, but rather my perception of quality, form, fit, & function. I like all these folks because they are American made...that means more and more to me everyday!
> 
> Some examples...
> 
> ...


Sounds good, thanks for all the helpful 411


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Sounds good, thanks for all the helpful 411


Did you even read the suspension page that I posted from the FAQ's? I literally list part numbers, prices, links, names, etc!


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Did you even read the suspension page that I posted from the FAQ's? I literally list part numbers, prices, links, names, etc!





armyadarkness said:


> Did you even read the suspension page that I posted from the FAQ's? I literally list part numbers, prices, links, names, etc!


Not yet.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Not yet.


Man... you know how long it took me to get that up and running!

Well, BTW, when you finally get around to reading it in 2024, dont forget frame supports. They're a critical element in triangulation.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Man... you know how long it took me to get that up and running!
> 
> Well, BTW, when you finally get around to reading it in 2024, dont forget frame supports. They're a critical element in triangulation.


Maybe the next toilet time  Frame supports...rut row


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Sick467 said:


> My "to buy" list for the suspension parts has Global West, UMI, & Spohn on it. I doubt that I buy all the parts from the same company, but rather split it up between them. This is not due to price, but rather my perception of quality, form, fit, & function. I like all these folks because they are American made...that means more and more to me everyday!
> 
> Some examples...
> 
> ...


I added heim joint rod end seals to my Spohn Del Sphere joints to keep dust/dirt out of them. These are my modified uppers, but you get the idea of the seals.

Another thing to consider is to allow the control arms to articulate, ie have free motion without binding. If you install the rear sway bar onto the lower control arms like factory, you are defeating the full use of having the roto joints/delsphere joints.. The sway bar will cause binding on the lower control arms. You want a sway bar that attaches to the rear axle tubes and then to the body/frame. This frees up the suspension so there is no binding. This can also help in keeping your rear end located evenly with less tendency to move from side-to-side.

The Spohn joints are rebuildable and adjustable.

Del-Sphere Pivot Joints | Roto-Joint


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> I added heim joint rod end seals to my Spohn Del Sphere joints to keep dust/dirt out of them. These are my modified uppers, but you get the idea of the seals.
> 
> Another thing to consider is to allow the control arms to articulate, ie have free motion without binding. If you install the rear sway bar onto the lower control arms like factory, you are defeating the full use of having the roto joints/delsphere joints.. The sway bar will cause binding on the lower control arms. You want a sway bar that attaches to the rear axle tubes and then to the body/frame. This frees up the suspension so there is no binding. This can also help in keeping your rear end located evenly with less tendency to move from side-to-side.
> 
> ...


Jim, do you have a rear sway bar recommendation for the set-up you are referring too? And, how about a source for the seals?


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Sick467 said:


> Jim, do you have a rear sway bar recommendation for the set-up you are referring too? And, how about a source for the seals?



Here is one from UMI:









1964-1972 GM A-Body 1” Tubular Rear Sway Bar - Chassis Mounted - UMI Performance Inc.


UMI’s A-body Pro-Tour style bar is a true multi purpose high performance rear sway bar. The chassis and differential housing




www.umiperformance.com





Contact* BearGFR* as he has a set-up on his 1969 GTO. There are other makes as well, but this shows you what I am talking about. I made a custom application as the stock sway bar will not work with the larger Ford 9" housing. A bolt on is the way to go.

The seals I show come from Summit. I show 2 types - PTP-19-1714BL - 2 per pack and bought 4 packs and SIT-WS1000 - 6 per pack and bought 1 pack, so the first number may be the ones. I used 2 different types of the rotor joints so this will at least get you in the ball park. It should have the specs/diameters of the dust shields and match those to whatever joint you go with.


----------



## Greek64GTO (Dec 13, 2015)

armyadarkness said:


> Like I said, try to stop looking at handling and traction as two separate issues. Traction is the lions share of handling... if your car doesnt loose traction when you're on the throttle in a turn, then it's not going to lose it going straight.


Army that is a mouthful that you stated! I remember road racing a rear leaf spring car. We simply re-arched the leaf springs with no other changes. I picked up 2 seconds on a 2.5 mile road race course. My traction improved immensely. 

Love this thread. Surely considering many Global West components, yet listening to others.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Surely the reason why nearly any rear-wheel-drive, American car from the 80's back, can do doughnuts with ease, is because the weight transfer was so poor, and thus the car could not keep traction.

Fix that geometry and thats where formula 1 came from.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Surely the reason why nearly any rear-wheel-drive, American car from the 80's back, can do doughnuts with ease, is because the weight transfer was so poor, and thus the car could not keep traction.
> 
> Fix that geometry and thats where formula 1 came from.


Got my eye on these in black 👍


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Got my eye on these in black


thats what she said


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> thats what she said





armyadarkness said:


> thats what she said


So you approve professor 😉


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Here's the shocks I'll probably get when I get brave or drunk enough to spend that kind of coin 🤪


----------



## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

On the El Camino


----------



## goat671 (Apr 13, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Here's the shocks I'll probably get when I get brave or drunk enough to spend that kind of coin 🤪
> View attachment 157298


I would go with some Konis or Bilsteins I think these are too pricey


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

$850 BIG ONES! Smoley Hokes!!! The Bilstein's prices made me cringe a bit. But, there's nothing like the best...whether you need it or not. I envy your build...it has so much that I hope mine aspires to.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

goat671 said:


> I would go with some Konis or Bilsteins I think these are too pricey


I know I'm being picky but don't like the blue and yellow and are those two brands adjustable? if so then what's the price?


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sick467 said:


> $850 BIG ONES! Smoley Hokes!!! The Bilstein's prices made me cringe a bit. But, there's nothing like the best...whether you need it or not. I envy your build...it has so much that I hope mine aspires to.


I know it's hard to swallow but Jegs has a 50.00 off promo which is better than nothing, also probably need a drive shaft loop to race this fall so I'll throw that in while I'm getting free shipping. Just when I get close to paying off the PayPal credit I find more toys 😄 And thanks for the kind words 👍


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....to justify this in my head some more most other quality adjustable shocks that were mentioned are over 600.00 and like stated the adjusters on the front are impossible to get to without unbolting the shock and the rears don't have an offset bolt included.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> ....to justify this in my head some more most other quality adjustable shocks that were mentioned are over 600.00 and like stated the adjusters on the front are impossible to get to without unbolting the shock and the rears don't have an offset bolt included.


 I'm adding these to my "find-a-way-to-make -some-side-money" list!


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I know it's hard to swallow


thats what she said


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> thats what she said


Then she's not a pro 😉


----------



## goat671 (Apr 13, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> I know I'm being picky but don't like the blue and yellow and are those two brands adjustable? if so then what's the price?


So are you getting new shocks for increased performance or for looks and how much they cost? BTW Konis are red and are adjustable.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

goat671 said:


> So are you getting new shocks for increased performance or for looks and how much they cost? BTW Konis are red and are adjustable.


Buying for quality, ease of adjustment and that they can improve handling on the street then be de tuned for the drags. Red is ok but it depends on where the adjustment knob is, I don't think jacking the car up and dropping the shocks down every time you want to make an adjustment is very convenient. I wish these weren't so expensive believe me but I guess you pay for convenience, plus they have the lower bolt in the rears, do Koni's? I'll check them out and more than one person has complained about the blue and yellow shocks which I think weren't adjustable.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Looked at Koni and the fronts aren't adjustable and the rears have to be taken out completely, put in a vise and turned for adjusting...I'll pass.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Well Christmas came early, used credit card points and promo codes and thank goodness for PayPal credit 6 months interest free 😉


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Well Christmas came early, used credit card points and promo codes and thank goodness for PayPal credit 6 months interest free 😉


Did you get the shocks installed yet? I am putting them on my list and hope they remain once I get all the other parts added up for my spring/summer endeavors. 

Did you use the "No Bind Lower Rear Shock Relocation Mounting Brackets" that Spohn offers? 

Are these the one you got by the part number?...










Thanks for trying to spend my money!


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sick467 said:


> Did you get the shocks installed yet? I am putting them on my list and hope they remain once I get all the other parts added up for my spring/summer endeavors.
> 
> Did you use the "No Bind Lower Rear Shock Relocation Mounting Brackets" that Spohn offers?
> 
> ...


Ha ha yes I got them installed to see if it would help with racing traction, I guess they did. I didn't buy the brackets because it looks like they work ok but I did turn the stud around so I could access the tuning knob.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Often, you have to replace the lower shock mount bushing to get the spohn mount to work.


----------



## GTO Yeah (Dec 6, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Often, you have to replace the lower shock mount bushing to get the spohn mount to work.


Or you could bend the brackets a little with a pair of pliers... 😬 At least that's what I did. Hoping they'll still work that way.

Whichever way you go, be sure to get the bolt sleeves they offer as well. You'll need them.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

GTO Yeah said:


> Or you could bend the brackets a little with a pair of pliers... 😬 At least that's what I did. Hoping they'll still work that way.
> 
> Whichever way you go, be sure to get the bolt sleeves they offer as well. You'll need them.


Yeah... Spohn couldve done a little more to make those mounts more user friendly. I'd have rather paid another $5 than to have to go to NAPA six times and spend hours fabbing.


----------

