# 1965 GTO shifter



## goatvet (Aug 18, 2010)

did a 1965 gto PHS come with a shifter on the column, I do know it have a floor shifter 
thanks 
mike


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

confused 65 GTO can have a column shifter- if thats what your asking


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I've seen several '65's with column mounted shifters when equipped with a bench seat and an automatic trans. Have never seen a "three on the tree" version. I believe the base, standard set-up was a heavy duty 3 speed with a Hurst floor mounted shifter. Extra cash got you a 4 speed, an automatic, and if you spent a little more, a console to wrap the shifter in.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

goatvet said:


> did a 1965 gto PHS come with a shifter on the column, I do know it have a floor shifter
> thanks
> mike


A PHS (Pontiac Historical Services) document will tell you what options were built/ordered for a specific vin #. Only an automatic or a 3 speed could be on the column. If your PHS says the car had a 4-speed, or a councel, then it has the floor shifter from the factory. And for what's it's worth, the hole in my floor for the factory floor shifter looked like it was cut in with a tourch, verry jagged edges.


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## scottGTO389 (Apr 11, 2014)

Yes they did, I have what seems to be a rare car. Its a 1965 GTO convertible, with auto on the column and a single 4BBL YS engine, all numbers match and I rescued this car in Feb of this year. Upon doing my research, My PHS documented car was ordered with bucket seats, no console and Auto Further research from the protecto plate I have in hand. A woman by the name of Rose Nicastro, ordered this car for her husband at Lou Block Pontiac @ 49th&Chestnut in Philadelphia. Her husband was the Philadelphia Medical College's leading Doctor, Dr. Gennaro Nicastro, now deceased. Rose had ordered this car with buckets and no console for a place to put his house call bag according to her, she is now 96. I have every piece of original equipment and the car is undergoing a frame off restoration. I have all the original paperwork, protecto plate, manuals etc. Body is a good 95% no rot ,rust or bondo, I've taken it down to bare metal. Has a Posi, or Saf-T-Track rear, remote mirror and a few other items. So, yes they did put column shifts in, I believe that this is one of the most unmolested GTO's around. I hoping it brings a few bucks when I'm done, anyone have an educated estimate? I know what I think but I like to think high. Thanks.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

To keep it's value, the car should have been left as a survivor, if it's as you described. Stripping it down to bare metal detracts from it's originality and value. Column shift auto's are not really rare in '65, and are the least desirable shift option. Condition will set the price for your car, and color. Black, Iris Mist and Montero Red original colors bring much more cash than beige, tan, gold, or white.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

I agree with geeteeohguy. If you have one of the most unmolested GTO's around, then by doing a frame off restoration just killed that statement. Tri-pwr, 4 speed on the floor and the colors he mentioned are the big $$$$ and then you can have all of those extra options to bring it over the top.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. All of the extensive forementioned documentation that this vehicle has, which makes it very special, went out the window with the frame off, as did most of the vehicle's history. It'll merely be another restored GTO, and not as interesting as a documented survivor GTO.


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## scottGTO389 (Apr 11, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> Yes, that's what I was trying to say. All of the extensive forementioned documentation that this vehicle has, which makes it very special, went out the window with the frame off, as did most of the vehicle's history. It'll merely be another restored GTO, and not as interesting as a documented survivor GTO.


Think and say what you want, I take no offense to opinions, and yes my friend that is your opinion. Base on only the knowledge which I share in this forum, and you don't know all the history, ie,storage ,paint, all the options and various things that I have listed for specific reasons. I'm very glad that we have "experts" such as yourself to make a statement like you did. That's the sure sign of a true "expert". Please re-read what I had posted......Unmolested, I didn't say it was "Lou Block Pontiac showroom new". But you can have a look when its complete, I'm not a betting man, but I will bet you this..... That this car has more original parts and is in more original condition than anything you can bring to the meet. Would you care to put you car up for a bet? Who ever scores higher in a truly judged inspection takes both cars? That's how sure I am!


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

Your 65 would have to have the original paint, original pinstripes, and original tires just to start off with if you want to even compete with some of the examples out there.


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## tiger13 (May 4, 2012)

scottGTO389 said:


> Think and say what you want, I take no offense to opinions, and yes my friend that is your opinion. Base on only the knowledge which I share in this forum, and you don't know all the history, ie,storage ,paint, all the options and various things that I have listed for specific reasons. I'm very glad that we have "experts" such as yourself to make a statement like you did. That's the sure sign of a true "expert". Please re-read what I had posted......Unmolested, I didn't say it was "Lou Block Pontiac showroom new". But you can have a look when its complete, I'm not a betting man, but I will bet you this..... That this car has more original parts and is in more original condition than anything you can bring to the meet. Would you care to put you car up for a bet? Who ever scores higher in a truly judged inspection takes both cars? That's how sure I am!


Your missing the point of what he said. It is no longer original at this point. PERIOD. It will just be another RESTORED, GTO. and that is OK, but it will no longer be an original, unmolested car. There are plenty of restored GTOs, with original parts running around out there. Good luck with your project.


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## 60sstuff (Jul 15, 2011)

*What a Shame*



scottGTO389 said:


> I believe that this is one of the most unmolested GTO's around.


If this 65 is, or was a "true" unmolested GTO when you rescued it then it would seem another possible Survivor just got erased!

As already mentioned, there are 1000's of restored muscle cars everywhere but it's very RARE to see an old "unmolested" automobile and now there is one less.

A true Survivor will command much more $$$$ than another restored car.


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

I have seen a 3 on the tree orginal paint 66 GTO with console. PHS documented!! Just shows back in the day you could get any thing if you knew the right dealer. Man wish I had a picture of the block off plate that was make for the console. Super Nice low mileage car too.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

FNG, I have never seen or heard of that. Pretty neat. Scott, I am not here to compete with you. I merely stated my opinion, and it's an opinion that's pretty much the consensus in this field these days. A restored car is not an original, unmolested car. And not looked at the same way. Both of my cars are unrestored, but are not unmolested originals, either. Both have been repainted. The '65 has a replacement engine block. Both are drivers, and have been since day one. But both are far more original than a restored car, and have much of the patina and characteristics that unrestored cars have. I wouldn't dream of trying to compete on the show circuit with either of them. I'd fail miserably. But that's fine. I get my pleasure by driving them and sharing them with others. Good luck on your project.


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## 666bbl (Apr 13, 2014)

A proper restoration, and I guess proper should be in 6' neon letters, should command the same price as a worn "survivor" with a binder full of documentation on each. Proper would be investing the hours needed to make the finish look right vs perfect. It would be making sure the frame wasn't sanded so far that the draw marks got filled in and ended up looking as pretty as the fenders. Same with the core support and inner fender wells, not all frosted with extra primer and hours of block sanding. It's a tough gig and not something many are willing to do because it's so easy to make everything better vs correct. If concours is the target then go for it, but to make a car look right, to invest the time and research to duplicate finishes and textures and fasteners (their finishes too) is not as easy as it seems. I see this at shows like Amelia Island in FL and St. Johns in MI. Big 30s cars with cut and buffed frames and the undersides of the fenders as nice as the top. Never happened, EVER. The pick marks from the metal finishing hammers were left on the bottoms of the finest cars ever. I've seen some "sold" listings of restored cars (some over done) that trump the survivors. A big $$$$$$ survivor also has to be at the top of it's own food chain. 69 GTO survivor with a column shift auto and perhaps even the **** rare 2bbl 400 vs a properly restored 69 GTO with a 4spd and ram air. Some rare items are rare for a reason. Who'd want it? Even back then it was little more than an oddity. I'd be in the long line pursuing the restored car. 

All of this is my opinion developed after 40+ years in the restoration biz. A "body shop" refinish and Year One interior kit isn't a restoration.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

666bbl, once again, perfectly stated. I agree with you 100%.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

There are advantages to owning each a restored and a survivor. The survivor you must be a responsible care taker and preserve the history and legacy. The restored you can have more fun with because of less worries with the car. If the restored car gets damaged you can say oh well, I'm sure the car was in a lot worse shape before it was restored, let's just restore it again.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Roger, total restorations that are done correctly can not really be driven, as the car degrades with use, and loses cash value. Most concourse restorations become trailer queens and are no longer driven. The ones that interest me are the concourse restorations that have 20 years on them, so they are no longer perfect, and have a little 'old car' patina.....and can actually be bought and driven. (and enjoyed!!)


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

The amount of money invested will NOT see a return comparable to just selling an original sorry. You see it all the time look on ebay for the fully restored "all original" 65 gtos in completed listings -one was listed for $99,000 the other $109,900- just because you put that much into it doesnt mean someone will buy it. You can EASILY dump $30k into a car that will only be worth 25k when done.


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## 69GTOCONVLOVER (Oct 29, 2013)

Great discussion..... It got me more confused than I thought I was though..... would love to discuss where a survivor becomes a restauration and a restauration a resto-mod. Example; paint job on a survivor? HEI coversion? New seat backs on original vinil seats? Replacing floor pans?

Hope some of you guys find this an interesting topic as well.

Martin

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## 666bbl (Apr 13, 2014)

The advantage of having a car restored isn't always financial. It could simply be that the owner sees the car from raw material to show winner. They know what they have by either doing their own work (rare) or following/leading the job and perhaps taking on some of the simple tasks. Whomever does the work has to challenge themselves, to grab the brass ring of a truly AUTHENTIC product. I'm a Motown resident, born and raised and still here. I've been to the Detroit Autorama countless times, but in the last 3-4 years there's been some serious restorations on display. Maybe too serious. One car had the drums off to show the perfect painted and coated hardware behind them. Seriously? While the frames are a nice low gloss finish they're actually too perfect. Not a mark, not a flaw, no runs, clips all painted their original colors. The body work was done so well it could rival the 6 and 7 figure show cars. While enviable in presentation and quality, I have to think it's still unreal. I applaud the restorers and owners dedication to quality but what does it represent? Resto-mods are lost on me personally. I think 60s cars with 18-20 inch wheels look like full sized Hot Wheels cars. LS-fuel injected-Katskinned-IRS-digital gauged, not for this old bastid (!). Day 2? Bring em on, man!! Again, I'm all in Motown for life. What roamed the streets in the OEM's backyard was almost always what folks call a "Day 2" car. Wheels, gauges, a bit of a rake, and only their "hair dresser" knew what lurked under the hood. Hell even the mufflers were kool with names like Cherry Bomb and Purple Hornies, painted kool too in wild colors or the inimitable Thrush bird right on the muffler. Forget it all burned off in a few months. Just some musings from the past...


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Recently helped a friend complete the frame-off restoration of a '67 GTO. (well, 3 years ago). Not perfect, but a dead on duplicate of a factory build. With a run here and there on the firewall, and every bolt and bracket the right finish and in the right place. He drives the car, and I have driven it, and it does drive like a new car. Super tight, no rattles, no squeaks. Had 250,000 miles on it before the restoration. Now it feels like it has 10 miles on it. Amazing what all new bushings, springs, rubber, etc. does. He did change it over to 4 speed with an original console, and install a restored '66 tripower. But the car is not over restored. My kind of car. And it's running 1970 vintage restored US Mag slots. With 14" tires that have plenty of sidewall. My kind of tire. Nothing looks worse on a classic musclecar than 17" and up diameter drug-dealer ghetto wheels.


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