# My Early GTO History



## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I took delivery of my '64 GTO on March 28, 1964. I got married a week later, and by 1967 we had two kids (and that was all). By 1969 the car had 75,000 miles on it, and that was my excuse to at least do a valve job. It was also the main family car and my work transportation, so being down very long would be a problem. If a valve job is good, an engine rebuild must be better. So my plan was to come up with a rebuildable engine, build a short block, then take my engine out. All it would need then would be a valve job, put the new heads on the rebuilt block and it would be good to go. I had no Pontiac specific knowledge, little engine knowledge, and very few tools. So I bought a friends '60 Pontiac convertible. I started taking it apart when I found the '60 engine was not compatible with my car. The guy that told me that paid me what I paid for the car, and he took the car and the parts. Everything I read said '61-'64 389's were the same. So I went to a junkyard in LA and purchased a '62 engine. It couldn't have been making much valve noise as the top was nothing but sludge. I completed the short block, and was getting ready to remove my engine. I turned the rebuilt short block over on the stand and something stood out as being different. Upon closer inspection I saw that there were no holes in the block to bolt in the starter. Oh well, I can get those put in. So I laid a starter down to see where the holes would go, and it wouldn't sit flat. The solenoid was hitting a casting web on the block. These blocks were used with a bell housing mounted starter. This is how you learned things in the olden days - the hard way - long before the Internet. So I removed my engine to rebuild it. I disassembled the new short block, saved the moving parts and sold the '62 block. During the process I noticed a set of '63 Pontiac Super Duty heads (#980) for $200 at Service Center. I had read they were great, so I bought them. I got the whole engine assembled, and staged a completed engine picture. I just laid the intake manifold on, and just used the outer bolt holes of the headers for the picture opportunity. B/T/W, I installed an Isky 280/280 cam because of what I read in the car magazines. 

- - - - To be continued, it's a long story - - - -


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Taylor that is a good story of people like you that work for what you could get.the best way to learn about these cars.That is where I got my knowledge from is to listen and learn from you and others and that never stops.My Dad turned me on to GTOS when I was little owning a 67 and 69 when they were new.Thanks for the old pics brings back a lot of old memories


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

That's just a start.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Even though we haven't met, or maybe we have and I just can't remember, but I use to live in Riverside 35 years ago and your name and car were well known among the Pontiac guys I hung out with. 

I'm in the San Diego South Bay now.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Bear with me, I've never written this stuff down before, so it might come across a bit confusing. However, I hope not too much. 

It's hard to tell in the picture of me by the engine, but the heads are the 980 '63 SD heads. I did not know there would be big trouble trying to use them. The first thing I noticed when I put them on was that my pushrods were too long. I'm thinking OK, maybe that's the way they were. I had no one to review my info with, so I was totally on my own. OK, so I have a new set of pushrods made 1/4" shorter than my old ones. Now I'm ready to put the manifold on. Again, I'm going by what the magazines say is the hot setup. So I "upgraded" my '64 tri-power to a Holley 3310 (780 CFM, vacuum secondaries) on top of an Edelbrock EP-4B aluminum manifold. On top of that I used a Stellings top flow air cleaner. Man, I'm really going to be fast now. Again, I'm inexperienced so there's a lot of questions I didn't ask. More on that later. I try to bolt up the intake manifold, and it is too high on the heads. After a lot of measurements, it needs to be cut 1/4" to line up with the heads. OK, I get it milled 0.250" Now everything bolts up. I assemble the clutch and transmission and install the engine. Everything seems to be OK until I try to install the headers. I cannot get them between the frame and the heads. Again it seems like the mysterious quarter inch problem. I could not find a solution to this so I took the heads off and sold them back to Service Center. The only thing that made sense was that someone milled the heads 1/4", even though that's kind of hard to believe. So now I have a valve job done on my heads and install them. The problem now is that I cut the manifold 1/4". I didn't have the money to buy another manifold, so I figured I'd get a spacer made at work. I measured the thickness of two intake manifold gaskets, calculated the shim thickness required and had aluminum spacers made at work. At least it didn't cost me anything. B/T/W, I didn't even get far enough to find out that my headers would not have lined up with the siamese ports on the SD heads. The bolt spacing is wider. Now I'm ready to start the engine. I get it running, break it in, but the lifters sounded funny. Long short, the further down the oil path for the lifters, the worse they sounded. After a lot of checking with others (I had no reference books), I learned there is a plug at the end of the lifter oil path in front of the distributor. I didn't even know it was there. Now what do I do?


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

O52 said:


> Even though we haven't met, or maybe we have and I just can't remember, but I use to live in Riverside 35 years ago and your name and car were well known among the Pontiac guys I hung out with.
> 
> I'm in the San Diego South Bay now.


Part of the reason for that is because my GTO was a "regular" on the street. I started racing it when it was a high 12 to low 13 second car in the quarter. This was from about 1973 to about 1985, and then I retired it from that function. As time went on it kept getting faster until it ran 10.80 at 129.31. That's a story of it's own. I was out every Friday night at the local MacDonald's in Escondido for at least 10 years. I had more races than I can remember. The car was known mainly for the hood scoop, secondly for how it sounded later on, and for winning a lot of crazy street races. Most everyone hated the hood scoop, but I didn't care. Initially I installed it to be able to have a functional cold air box. I made one for the four barrel and for the tri-power. The carbs didn't really like it, so I took off the cold air boxes but I've maintained the scoop. This picture is when I had the car painted in 1992 with the fiberglass scoop. Now it has a metal scoop.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

B/T/W O52, my given name is Jim Taylor. What is yours. I would bet that we have a lot of mutual friends and/or acquaintances. I know a lot of guys in the Pontiac clubs in the Riverside/Orange County areas.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

OK, I'm picking up from discovering that I did not install the Allen plug at the end of the lifter galley. I had just gotten everything installed, and I really didn't want to take the whole assembly out and start over - even though that's what I should have done. So I took out the transmission, the clutch and flywheel, and looked at the back of the block - from under the car. I took out the distributor and started working on getting the freeze plug out of the back of the block - without it falling into the engine. I figured worst case I'd have to take the engine back out. OK, I got the freeze plug out successfully, but the Allen plug is about 3" or more from the back surface of the block. AND, if I drop the plug - pull the engine out. So I got some aluminum bar stock, I think it was 3/8". I cut off about 4" and had the end machined down to the size of the recess in the Allen plug. BUT - how is that going to work? I can't afford to drop the plug off of my special tool (which I still have somewhere). So I applied a judicious mount of gasket sealer between the plug and the tool, and tried to be very careful inserting the tool straight enough and successfully get the plug threaded into the hole. Amazing, I got it in. It may have been a lot of sweat and sore muscles, but it was in. Now I reassemble everything and it is running pretty good. Now I'm ready to go to the track and tear it up. Previously my car had run a best of 13.70 at 101.12 at Lions. It was all stock except for headers, and it had 3.23 gears. My first outing seemed like the car was running out of gas. I never got a complete run. I still had the hood insulation on the car, and the air cleaner sucked it right down. OK, easy fix. Remove all of the hood insulation. I go back out to the track and my best performance was something like 14.4 at 96. All that time and money to slow the car down. The Holley needed a lot of work, and a single pattern cam is not what most Pontiacs like. That can be explained another time. I barely got it running reliably before we moved to Escondido in July of 1970. Not fast, but reliable. I ran it this way for about 3 more years before I worked on it some more. That's where I'll pick up next time.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Someone please give me some feedback to tell me if these kinds of stories are appropriate here.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

I’m diggin it OMT, I’m privileged to hear any
And all You say about any and all of your trials and techniques in those early years with few avenues of resources to help you out.
The emotions you recall Jim ,touch us all,at some time Both in our fun and our sordid Pontiac journeys..
We’ve all been there with that thought..
“What the hell do I do now?”damn it
Or “THAT did it ,sounds great now”...yes!

Im sure most everyone here would agree
With that, and truly ,the guys like you are who actually bought and rebuilt and raced GTOs when they very first appeared Are in rare air; We are highly fortunate to be able to hear what you can share with us now..
Thankz OMT & keep goin don’t stop this story!
Jetz


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it. There's a lot more.


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## AZTempest (Jun 11, 2019)

Keep it coming.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Loving the story 

Bear


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Taylor at that time we’re you using the goat as everyday use and drag racing?


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

pontrc said:


> Taylor at that time we’re you using the goat as everyday use and drag racing?


Yes. It had to be dependable until about 1974 or 75.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

During the several years that I ran it as described above, it was frustrating that it had a bog in between each gear. That seems simple enough, just improve the accelerator pump. Remember this is a Holley 780 (3310). So I installed a 50 cc Rio accelerator pump. Didn't fix the problem. I started doing other mods to the carb to try to improve the driveability. This is when I started going to the speed shop in town. They helped me identify more mods to the carb, but it never really fixed it. At that point they said there's a guy I should meet. He's a Pontiac guy and he does contract work for them. They gave me his number, we talked and set up a meeting. He had just come home from the hospital recovering from a collapsed lung. So entertaining an ignorant Pontiac person would be a diversion for him. This ended up cementing a live long friendship. To finish the carb story, the final mod I made was to slow the opening of the secondaries so it would not nose dive between gears. After getting to know my new friend better (another Jim), he suggested that I try the Pontiac Ram Air cam they started using in late '66. This is commonly referred to as the 744 cam, but we called it by the stamping on the end of the cam. The "H" cam. So I go to the local Pontiac dealership and order an "H" cam. The parts man was unbelievably knowledgeable, and it pained me when he retired. So I get the cam and put it in. I go back to the track and it doesn't run much, if any better. The odd thing about the cam was that it never had an RPM where it woke up. It just felt the same through the RPM range. Neither my mentor nor I could figure this out. Around 1973 I took the engine out for a complete rebuild. When we looked at the cam Jim laughed. He said "that's not an "H" cam." I asked how he could be so sure. The "H" cam is the only one that has a flat nose (I'll explain that another time). The lobes on this one were pointed. We looked at the stamping and it looked like an "H". But on further inspection it was a poorly stamped "E". It was the smallest cam in the Pontiac parts book. Plus the intake lift was only about 0.375". We don't know if it was an honest mistake at Pontiac, or if it was the result of skulduggery. Again, not being particularly bucks up I'm looking for a way to save money. A friend of mine at work had a '68 Firebird that he had been racing. He decided he wanted to make it a pro-stock car, but he was at a standstill - with a lot of parts. Nope, he was going to get back on it so it wasn't for sale. This was 1973. However, he already purchased RAIV heads so I bought his 16's to use in my build. I get it done, and all the previous problems are gone. It runs pretty good, and the performance noticeably improves at about 3000 RPM. I take it to the track and it ran something like 13.40 first time out. By now I had purchased a set of Jim's old slicks. They were 8" wide. I was on my way home from work one day when there was a very loud bang. I shut the key off immediately and coasted to the shoulder. Tow it home and start taking it apart. It turns out slicks and a stick shift are brutal on the drive train. The main issue was that I had broken the crankshaft right after the first journal. But I got the key off fast enough I hoped the block would be OK. No such luck. It was cracked from the mains to the cam. The reason was that the two piece balancer on the 64's wouldn't handle the extreme stresses. Running slicks made the RPM change dramatically. making the rubber mounted portion of the balancer move. This resulted in the crank being out of balance. The other observation was that my original M-20 showed radical movement of the cluster pin. The starting line launch forces started egg shaping the case. Now it's time to start over again. B/T/W, that engine only lasted about 6 months.



To be continued. There was a lot of ""continuing" in this overall odyssey.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

So now I am sitting with a broken crank and block. Since it broke at the first journal, there was only one main bearing supporting the crank. This allowed the front journal to flop up and down. Fortunately I had forged pistons so the shape of the combustion chamber was stamped on top of the two front pistons. I was running the '62 forged rods, AKA "rubber rods". So I go to my friend at work again to check on his status (another Jim - I swear half of the men in my age group are named Jim). This is late '73 or early '74. By this time his wife is fed up with all of the parts in the garage, and she actually moved out for awhile. He was now ready to sell. He's lucky, as the car would have grenaded right away. He cut out the firewall of a unibody car to set the engine back. But he didn't do any stiffening. He bought an Isky 330 Super Legara solid roller cam as his plans were to turn 8000 RPM. He had TRW forged pop-ups, RAIV heads, dual Holley 660 center squirters on top of a Weiand plenum which in turn was on top of a Doug Nash manifold for dual Dominators. He was also reusing the factory cast rods. So I paid him $500 for everything. Remember this is '73 or '74. This included the 400 Firebird with a T-400 and a 4.56 posi, the hood with the added hood scoop (like on my car at the time), and all of the engine parts. I already had his heads, so all I needed was the short block pieces. I sold the RAIV heads for $200, sold the complete tunnel ram setup for $200, and had the junkyard take the car, trans and hood for $125. It seem to me I sold something else for $100, but I can't recall what. He also told the machine shop to bore the block 0.030" without giving them the pistons, then ordered 0.030" over TRW forged pop-ups (12:1). Calculated compression for me was going to be 11.4:1, which I didn't like. So I called TRW to see how much of the dome I could have machined off the top of the piston. When I finally got to an engineer, he was quite helpful. He said the minimum dome thickness should be 0.180", so I had the tops machined to yield this thickness. That got my compression down to 11:1. At the time we could still get good gas, so this was marginally OK. I hand fitted the pistons to the block, putting the largest piston in the largest hole. My largest piston to wall came out to 0.006", so I had the tighter holes honed to yield 0.006" across the board. This wasn't really bad for that piston design, but you could easily hear them when the engine was cold. I side polished the factory cast rods, installed new Pontiac rod bolts, had the rods resized and then assembled the short block. Oh, I remember where the other $100 came from. I sold the giant roller cam and used the "H" cam in my engine. I can't remember if I was able to reuse my old cam, or if I had to buy a new one. Degree the cam, new chain and gears and I'm ready to rock and roll. I was still using the RA/HO exhaust manifolds from the previous build. The #16 heads were OK, so they went on top. I was still running the 780 Holley, and by now I had installed 3.90 gears in the 10 bolt with a new to me M-20. Time to check it out. First time out it ran 13.05 at 105, but by now I was fed up with the Holley. My original Pontiac friend had lots of parts, and he was kind enough to sell me a complete '66 tri-power. When I first put it on it was still not running quite right, but I had to go to the track as soon as I could. Right away 12.90. I eventually got this combination to run 12.65 at either 108 or 109. During that era I wanted the car to be a sleeper, and I was very successful. Everything looked and sounded factory stock. Cast iron exhaust manifolds, and it idled at 700 RPM. I remember going into MacDonald's one Friday night as some young guys were coming out. One of them said to the other (pointing at my car) "that's a 12 second car". The other guy said "no way, it's got a 10 bolt rear end and it idles too slow". I ran it this way for a couple of years. At first I had to convince people I would be competition, they just knew Pontiac's didn't run. After that most of them did their best to stay away from me. Now my car is no longer a sleeper, so I wanted a killer cam. I didn't care if it slowed the car down. So I put in HO Racing's HC-03 cam. It was a hydraulic flat tappet with 244/252 degrees at 0.050" and 0.500" lift on a 110 LSA.

That's where I will pick up next time.


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## gtoearl (Dec 21, 2009)

Old Man Taylor said:


> During the several years that I ran it as described above, it was frustrating that it had a bog in between each gear. That seems simple enough, just improve the accelerator pump. Remember this is a Holley 780 (3310). So I installed a 50 cc Rio accelerator pump. Didn't fix the problem. I started doing other mods to the carb to try to improve the driveability. This is when I started going to the speed shop in town. They helped me identify more mods to the carb, but it never really fixed it. At that point they said there's a guy I should meet. He's a Pontiac guy and he does contract work for them. They gave me his number, we talked and set up a meeting. He had just come home from the hospital recovering from a collapsed lung. So entertaining an ignorant Pontiac person would be a diversion for him. This ended up cementing a live long friendship. To finish the carb story, the final mod I made was to slow the opening of the secondaries so it would not nose dive between gears. After getting to know my new friend better (another Jim), he suggested that I try the Pontiac Ram Air cam they started using in late '66. This is commonly referred to as the 744 cam, but we called it by the stamping on the end of the cam. The "H" cam. So I go to the local Pontiac dealership and order an "H" cam. The parts man was unbelievably knowledgeable, and it pained me when he retired. So I get the cam and put it in. I go back to the track and it doesn't run much, if any better. The odd thing about the cam was that it never had an RPM where it woke up. It just felt the same through the RPM range. Neither my mentor nor I could figure this out. Around 1973 I took the engine out for a complete rebuild. When we looked at the cam Jim laughed. He said "that's not an "H" cam." I asked how he could be so sure. The "H" cam is the only one that has a flat nose (I'll explain that another time). The lobes on this one were pointed. We looked at the stamping and it looked like an "H". But on further inspection it was a poorly stamped "E". It was the smallest cam in the Pontiac parts book. Plus the intake lift was only about 0.375". We don't know if it was an honest mistake at Pontiac, or if it was the result of skulduggery. Again, not being particularly bucks up I'm looking for a way to save money. A friend of mine at work had a '68 Firebird that he had been racing. He decided he wanted to make it a pro-stock car, but he was at a standstill - with a lot of parts. Nope, he was going to get back on it so it wasn't for sale. This was 1973. However, he already purchased RAIV heads so I bought his 16's to use in my build. I get it done, and all the previous problems are gone. It runs pretty good, and the performance noticeably improves at about 3000 RPM. I take it to the track and it ran something like 13.40 first time out. By now I had purchased a set of Jim's old slicks. They were 8" wide. I was on my way home from work one day when there was a very loud bang. I shut the key off immediately and coasted to the shoulder. Tow it home and start taking it apart. It turns out slicks and a stick shift are brutal on the drive train. The main issue was that I had broken the crankshaft right after the first journal. But I got the key off fast enough I hoped the block would be OK. No such luck. It was cracked from the mains to the cam. The reason was that the two piece balancer on the 64's wouldn't handle the extreme stresses. Running slicks made the RPM change dramatically. making the rubber mounted portion of the balancer move. This resulted in the crank being out of balance. The other observation was that my original M-20 showed radical movement of the cluster pin. The starting line launch forces started egg shaping the case. Now it's time to start over again. B/T/W, that engine only lasted about 6 months.
> 
> 
> 
> To be continued. There was a lot of ""continuing" in this overall odyssey.


thoroughly enjoying your story Jim.A lot of what you’re saying I’ve ran into in building my 66 Pontiac GTO with tri-power. When I was building it I was deciding whether to use the original 93 heads or put a set of 16 heads that I had on the shelf as extra parts when I bought the car from a guy down the street. I decided to use the 16 heads... Also used flattop pistons to maintain the 10+ compression rate. Also had a performance cam, not sure what it was now but I know it was something similar to the ram air lift and duration. The car ran pretty fast not sure what the horsepower was but I think it was a little over the 360 stock horsepower with the tri-power even though I ran the Edelbrock 750 on it. I also had the HO stock headers on it also 
Not sure if it was the machine shop or what but I ended up rebuilding that motor shortly after that to decrease the compression. Had a 90 pound oil pump on it and I was concerned that at a stoplight the oil pressure was near zero. It ran a little hot too. So I decided to take the motor out and change the oil pump to a 60 pound pump and then I found the issues. 

Used dish pistons this time around. When I took the engine apart Three pistons had cracks in the skirt and two of the skirts broke off and we’re laying in the corner of the valley pan. As I said not sure what happened if it was detonation or what but I decided to go with lower compression so I wouldn’t have a problem with pump gas and it would run well for cruising and street use...wasn’t concerned with having a 400 horsepower motor. Obviously I don’t think it has as much horsepower as it did on the first build. And as you probably know it really ran better with that Edelbrock 750 carburetor on it instead of the tri-power. I’ve been playing around with the idea of taking the tri-power off and putting the 750 Edelbrock matched with an older weiand Manifold. Just to see if has more...... Anyway enjoying your story. You must be in your 70s by now LOL I turn 70 in July.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I turn 80 in October. I would keep your tri-power on and fix whatever driveability issues it has. You can start a separate thread for that.


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## gtoearl (Dec 21, 2009)

Old Man Taylor said:


> I turn 80 in October. I would keep your tri-power on and fix whatever driveability issues it has. You can start a separate thread for that.


Well I don’t think I really have any issues with the tri power... I was just thinking in general with that 750 it probably has more guts... but maybe not it’s hard to compare with the first build. Definitely had more horsepower in the first build and when I put my foot in it it would throw you back in the seat with the Edelbrock 750... never had the tri-power first build.. i’m curious what horsepower this has now and someday I would like to put it on the Dino to have it tuned and horsepower rating..


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

OK, I pick up on the 400 engine that was all stock parts and ran 12.65 at either 108 or 109, I don't remember for sure. Now I'm tired of the car being a sleeper and I install a large cam. One that should have been way too big for what my 400 would want. I take it to the track and it runs 12.59 at 110. Since my car is no longer stock, it's time for headers. My good Pontiac friend had a spare set so I bought them from him. They were 1 3/4" tubes, truly equal length and clocked. Clocked means the exhaust at the collectors is assembled to follow the firing order. If you looked into the collector from the rear, the exhaust pulses would be going clockwise or counter clockwise. The "normal way they criss-cross, and the reason for that is easier routing of the tubes. This results in a circular motion in the collector which helps scavenge the exhaust. They have one tube over the frame on each side because of the routing required to make them "clocked". The brand is Headers By "Ed". They got so expensive I think he quit selling complete headers, and went to kits. 

So I had to cut part of my fender well out by the clutch bell crank for the tube over frame. The tube bolts in separately, after the other three are in place. Although these headers work well, they were optimized for drag racing. The tubes were thin and a couple of bolts were difficult. One is almost impossible. I've spent as much as 6 hours on one of the bolts. It's the fourth bolt back at the back of the #5 and #6 cylinders. The tube wraps right around the bolt. The best way to get them on is to slot the flange, install the difficult bolt, and pull the headers over the bolt. It's still difficult, but threading the bolt with the header in is impossible. 

OK, the punch line. The car ran 12.20 at 114. It's clear the RA manifolds became a restriction. Either because the cam was too big, or because they didn't like a 110 degree LSA. I drove the car this way for several years. It did sound pretty nasty. In 1978 I started building a 428. It took me three years, but the 400 was still running great. During those three years I decided I would put a nitrous system on the car. Remember, I'm street racing it, and using it for transportation. I'll pick up here next time.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

gtoearl said:


> Well I don’t think I really have any issues with the tri power... I was just thinking in general with that 750 it probably has more guts... but maybe not it’s hard to compare with the first build. Definitely had more horsepower in the first build and when I put my foot in it it would throw you back in the seat with the Edelbrock 750... never had the tri-power first build.. i’m curious what horsepower this has now and someday I would like to put it on the Dino to have it tuned and horsepower rating..


Run the tri-power.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

So now I'm building a 428, but I want to put nitrous on the 400 that is still in the car. My plan was to grind out the exhaust cross over and plumb the nitrous lines underneath. I wasn't trying to hide it, I just wanted it clean. So I go about hacking and grinding to get the exhaust cross over gone. Easier said than done when you don't have the right tools. But I got it done adequately. I could have cleaned off the ribs on the sides better, but I was kind of fed up. When I'm finished I send the manifold to Marvin Miller. I think they were in Burbank at the time, which is about 100 miles away. I think I'm in good shape until I get a call from them saying they can't plumb it directly into the ports. I ask why. They say "ooooo, it's cast iron". I say yeah, all the factory tri-powers were cast iron, surprise. Why can't you do it? "Ooooo, it's cast iron". Well, if it's hard on your tooling I will replace it. "Ooooo, it's cast iron". No matter what I asked I got the same response. They never did explain it to me. But they did make me a deal on a plate system, which in hind sight I think is better. The only down side is the air cleaner on the front of the carburetor hits the cross member on the hood. So I bent the cross member. The system was advertised as a 125 HP boost. I don't think I have any pictures of the first system, but it comprised 4 solenoids. Two small one for fuel and two small ones for nitrous. I made a mounting plate to go over the heater housing so I could take it off easily. I'll show picture later. They did a nice job with the stainless steel lines. The biggest issue with removing everything is that it now requires 6 gaskets for the carb bases. I also had to mount a nitrous tank somewhere. I chose to put it basically where the spare tire would have been. I had to drop the gas tank to mount the lower rails. I did this by myself and didn't totally empty the gas tank so needless to say I couldn't balance it. It isn't very pretty, but I got it all done. 

I go out for a blast and it runs better, but nothing like I thought it should. My guess was that it was closer to a 75 HP boost rather than 125. So I play with this on the street until the 428 is done. I planned on removing the engine on a Sunday, so I took it to the track on Saturday. It ran 11.85 at 119. I could barely get it into 4th gear (M-20) because the pilot bushing was toast. I forgot to mention that the crank that came out of the '68 Firebird was not machined for a pilot bearing. I didn't know it until the engine was finished and I was getting ready to install the clutch. I didn't want to take it all apart so I had a tool made to turn down some bushings that would go into the unfinished hole of the crank. I've attached a picture. When I pulled the 400 out it was clear that the input shaft was wandering all over the place. The hole in the bushing was pretty big. From that time on one, of the first things I do is check the crank to assure the 7109 pilot bearing will fit.

I did do two other things for the nitrous implementation. I was afraid the Holly blue regulator would not flow enough fuel, so I added a second one. I drilled holes in the alternator bracket and put both of them there. One was for the carbs, and the other for the nitrous solenoids. I was also afraid the fuel pump couldn't keep up, so I took off the mechanical pump and added to electrics. Down the road I put the mechanical pump back on and kept one electric as a pusher. During my "shake down runs" I put an oil pressure sending unit into the fuel line and sent the signal to the light on the dash. It turns out that sending unit activates at about 4 psi. Driving home from work with 1 pump the light had a slight glow. Hit the gas and it would go solid red. With two pumps the light stayed off. OOPS, another thing I forgot. How to activate the nitrous? I didn't want a manual switch to mess with while I was shifting gears, so I made a bracket to mount on the right rear stud of the rear carb. The carbs have to be wide open before the nitrous engages. I do not have any other controls on it, like oil pressure or water temperature.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I forgot to mention one thing. Since I had ground out the entire exhaust cross over, the center intake manifold bolts were unsupported on one side. So I made block off plates. They didn't really need to block the exhaust as the heads were welded up. But I needed to have the bolts supported as well as the factory did. You can see them in the picture. This is before I trimmed the manifold gasket.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I cropped the picture to make it easier to see the block off plates.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

Old Man Taylor said:


> Someone please give me some feedback to tell me if these kinds of stories are appropriate here.


Who cares, I’m finding it an entertaining read. Makes me think about all my excursions.


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## Slow&Easy1 (Mar 28, 2019)

This is very interesting and it’s great to hear about the intention, changes and results. Pictures too. Thank you


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## EddieGTO (Mar 22, 2020)

I’m loving this story!

I’ll have to chime in with mine, after I put together a few notes. My memory sucks!

here is just a teaser...

bought my first car, a ‘69 GTO RAIII, 4 speed at the age of 18 in ‘90 off my brother, so he can buy his first house. I knew nothing of Pontiac power, as all my friends had Chevys....


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## MidnightAuto (May 28, 2018)

Love the story omt.

N2O on a tripower is just sexy.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Well, I'm back. Life got in the way, and I had to rack my brain to see if I rebuilt the 428 between 1981 and 2000. I guess I didn't. One problem I did have when I first got the new engine running was the breaking of rocker studs. Every few miles it would snap one right off. I got to where I carried spares. It turns out mine weren't strong enough for the cam I was running. It was a hydraulic flat tappet with 260/260 degrees at 0.050" lift on a 110 LSA. Net lift was about 0.600 with 1.65 Crower stainless steel rockers. B/T/W, I'm typically against running a single pattern cam on a Pontiac, but I was hoping it would actually kill a little bottom end. I was still having a bit of fun on the street, and I didn't want the tires to spin too easily (from a roll). I upgraded to 4340 steel rocker studs. They same ones are still in the engine. The only upgrade I did to the engine since 1981 was to add a larger nitrous system. All I changed were the solenoids. My updated nitrous solenoid will flow more than my bottle, although the bottle is an old gas bottle. I got it before they started making nitrous specific bottles. Anyway, the power assist is now limited by the hole sizes in the tubes that are in the plates. The best estimate of horsepower boost by the company NOS was about 150 horsepower. Now there is enough flow to keep the nitrous in liquid form up to the nozzles, then it turns to gas when it exits. This provides better distribution and more cooling of the charge. In 1989 I updated the drive line. I changed the transmission to an M-22 Rock Crusher, and I put in a new Moroso posi and new 4.33 gears. I figured if I was ever going to the track, now was the time. So I go to Carlsbad the Saturday night before Easter. It turned out they were prepping the track that day and night to prepare for a big event on Easter day. I didn't know that until I tried a few runs without nitrous. I was running 29.5" x 9" Firestone slicks. It bogged BADLY. The runs were in the low to mid 12's. I was trying to characterize the setup to my old ones, but then I figured I was just wasting runs. I'm an engineer by profession, so I always try to think things through. From my past experiences, I was expecting this combination to run about 11.25 at about 125 mph. I turned on the juice, raised my launch RPM from 3000 to 5000 and let 'er rip. The first run was 11.05 at 122. I couldn't figure out why it was quicker in ET but slower in mph than I expected. So I'm driving back up to the starting line to make another pass. All of a sudden it's like something in the engine broke. So they push me over by the ambulance, and I start working on it. I wanted to get it to TDC first, so I pulled the plugs to make it easier to turn the engine over. I got the plugs out and three of them did not have any electrodes. I'm trying to think it through, saying I know nitrous doesn't like to run lean, but I've got two fuel pumps. I looked under the dashboard and saw that I had never turned on the electric pusher pump. I didn't usually need it on the street because we didn't typically go that fast. OK, I turn on the electric pump and do another bonsai launch. It felt really good until I got to about 900-1000 feet. I was used to the back end moving around due to slick walk. When I got over about 122 the front end starting moving around. I don't have the lift limited on the front end, so it goes up pretty high. I will try to attach a short clip of it running with street tires so you can see. Now I've got both ends sashaying around, and the sensation was that the sides of the track were starting to go to a vanishing point. It scared the hell out of me, but I'm thinking I want to keep my foot in it all the way to the end, because I don't ever want to do it again. Not only did I make it passed the finish line, I was even able to stop before hitting the hill at the end of the track. I've still got drum brakes all the way around. The result? 10.80 at 129.31! OK, I'm done. It was too scary, and it was fast enough to require a roll bar. That will never happen in this car. OK, I get it home safely and take it to work on Monday. I'm in the parking lot at the plant, slow down to go over a speed bump, let the clutch out - and the car just squats. I had broken first gear and the cluster in a rock crusher. That was the last time the car would ever have slicks on it again.

So I put in a new M-22 and just enjoyed it. Typically I would take my oldest granddaughter out for breakfast or donuts on a Sunday. We were leaving in the year 2000 and I couldn't get the engine to turn over. The starter had eaten up part of the flywheel. I managed to get it going and keep it running until I got home. The flywheel is hard enough to get to, and the engine had been in for 19 glorious years, so I figured I'd take the whole thing out and freshen up the engine. The real odyssey starts after that.

PS - I hunted for the clip with street tires, but apparently I never put it on YouTube. If you can bear with the bad films, it starts at the 4:20 mark of the attached link.

.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Love the story,and the video that race talking about putting a car on the trailer


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## Limelight (Aug 19, 2017)

Someone should make a movie from all this history. Love it and what a great read. Thanks for sharing Jim your a legend in the Pontiac community. Cheers sir!


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

pontrc said:


> Love the story,and the video that race talking about putting a car on the trailer


Although that car I raced was a full size Chevy, it had a hopped up 454. I hate getting beat off of the line, but I had street tires. I had to slowly roll into the gas, let the clutch out moderately, and have the clutch fully engaged at about 1500-1800 RPM. I had never done that before, and I was afraid it would still fry the tires when I finally had it floored. I have to hand it to the M&H street DOT tires, they work pretty well.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

I think the people who run this forum should knight you as Sir Old Man Taylor


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## gtoearl (Dec 21, 2009)

Great story Jim. Thoroughly enjoyed the reading. Makes me wonder what my GTO could do on the track. Someday I’d love to have a dynode and then run it down the strip for at least one run. LOL


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I didn't realize it had been so long since I updated this. I left the story at the year 2000, when I took the engine/trans out to replace the flywheel and freshen up the engine. When I got the engine apart I found that the block was cracked from the #4 main saddle to the cam journal. Fortunately (I thought) I had purchased a 4-bolt 428 spare block in the early 80's. OK, it shouldn't be that big a deal. So I get started building a new short block. I'll post the descriptions separately so it is clear what pictures go with what. In this picture you can see that the block is cracked clear across the main saddle. The crack went all the way to the cam journal. You could see light through it all the way from journal to journal. The only noticeable effect was a drop in the idle oil pressure. I used a Sharpie on each side of the crack to make it more visible.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Let me side track a little bit here to talk about starters and flywheels/flex plates. The gear contact and clearance between the two parts is crucial. I was trying an early IMI-108 mini-starter. The first problem I had was that the gear didn't protrude enough to even hit the flywheel. I sent it back it IMI and they machined the intermediate block to a dimension I gave them so I would get full tooth contact. On the final installation I was anal about getting the tooth clearance as close to the spec as possible. As you can see, it is much easier to do this before the engine is in the chassis. Another caution - I ate up two starters and flex plates on my racecar, which also uses mini-starters. A symptom that I had (not knowing it was a symptom of a problem) was that the RPM of the engine varied a lot when trying to start it. It slowed enough to seem like the starter might not be able to keep turning the engine. I just attributed it to a characteristic of the engine. Long story short, there are a lot of aftermarket flex plates out there that are not perfectly round. In one case I had set the clearance on the side with more clearance, therefore being too tight on the other side. This was my issue with the variance of the starting RPM. On another one I had set it on the tight side of the flex plate, therefore making it too loose on the other side. I bit the bullet and paid the money for a Meziere flex plate, and no more of those problems. I have not experienced this problem with a flywheel, but that doesn't mean it's not there. The message is to check the tooth contact around the flex plate. I now do it every 90 degrees.

The other picture is of the Stewart Warner gauges I finally replaced. I had them installed when the car was one week old. I updated them for two reasons: they don't have a light capability, so you can't see them in the dark; and I wanted larger displays.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I was rebuilding the 428 exactly the way it was before I took it apart. I used the same cam, etc, except I used all new parts. I finally put good forged rods in the engine, and all other parts were replaced with new ones. I also had my '67 GTO heads (cast #670) ported to 250+ CFM, and I kept the '66 tri-power. One thing I did not notice when assembling the engine was that I had reversed the heads. The water passages to the intake manifold up front were now in the back, and they were corroded. I was able to get one soft plug in OK, but I had to use an expansion plug on the other side. I WAS NOT going to take it apart unless it was absolutely mandatory. I got it running well, but after 100 miles it had major problems. I took it apart and found debris in the engine, and "messed up" cam bearings. I had installed a stud girdle on this one, the first one I had done. I installed it too low and the rocker arms were hitting it. I thought maybe that had something to do with the failure. OK, I replace everything again! I got 50 miles on it with the same result. I knew I had the stud girdle right, so something was going on. It turns out that you can't count on the cam journals being concentric. Therefore if one of them is out of place and you line bore them, the out of place one is now egg shaped. Its' bearing crush is not adequate to keep it from rotating. It rotates, blocks the oil hole, eats up the bearing, and then eats up the rest of the engine. Don't ever let anyone line bore your cam journals! Install the bearings, and if your cam won't go in then work on the cam bearings themselves. It turns out that this is what Pontiac did at the factory.

The machine shop I was using at the time had bad luck with the cam journals on a SBC, so he changed his procedure to line bore the cam journals on all engines. He did great work otherwise, but I quit using him for this reason. 

So now I'm on my third set of short block parts. All I could reuse were the crankshaft and the rods. At this point I was pretty demotivated, so the whole thing sat until 2004. 

To be continued, there's a whole lot more.


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## gtoearl (Dec 21, 2009)

Old Man Taylor said:


> I was rebuilding the 428 exactly the way it was before I took it apart. I used the same cam, etc, except I used all new parts. I finally put good forged rods in the engine, and all other parts were replaced with new ones. I also had my '67 GTO heads (cast #670) ported to 250+ CFM, and I kept the '66 tri-power. One thing I did not notice when assembling the engine was that I had reversed the heads. The water passages to the intake manifold up front were now in the back, and they were corroded. I was able to get one soft plug in OK, but I had to use an expansion plug on the other side. I WAS NOT going to take it apart unless it was absolutely mandatory. I got it running well, but after 100 miles it had major problems. I took it apart and found debris in the engine, and "messed up" cam bearings. I had installed a stud girdle on this one, the first one I had done. I installed it too low and the rocker arms were hitting it. I thought maybe that had something to do with the failure. OK, I replace everything again! I got 50 miles on it with the same result. I knew I had the stud girdle right, so something was going on. It turns out that you can't count on the cam journals being concentric. Therefore if one of them is out of place and you line bore them, the out of place one is now egg shaped. Its' bearing crush is not adequate to keep it from rotating. It rotates, blocks the oil hole, eats up the bearing, and then eats up the rest of the engine. Don't ever let anyone line bore your cam journals! Install the bearings, and if your cam won't go in then work on the cam bearings themselves. It turns out that this is what Pontiac did at the factory.
> 
> The machine shop I was using at the time had bad luck with the cam journals on a SBC, so he changed his procedure to line bore the cam journals on all engines. He did great work otherwise, but I quit using him for this reason.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the continuing story. Enjoying the read. Impressed with your long history of a GTO’s and issues with the engines...


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Great job on your story telling! Have enjoyed the entire thing so far. Being 72, I can identify. Can't wait till your next episode.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I could read this stuff all day. I love the history and the knowledge that you older guys bring to the table. I hope that doesn't come out the wrong way, because I intend it as respect. I am probably much younger than most on the 64 - 74 section of the forum but these are the cars I've always loved (I am 44). Hands down I appreciate the insight I get from you guys.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

1968gto421 said:


> Great job on your story telling! Have enjoyed the entire thing so far. Being 72, I can identify. Can't wait till your next episode.


I will be 80 this year. Ten years younger than Arnie Beswick who turned 90 last month.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Jared said:


> I could read this stuff all day. I love the history and the knowledge that you older guys bring to the table. I hope that doesn't come out the wrong way, because I intend it as respect. I am probably much younger than most on the 64 - 74 section of the forum but these are the cars I've always loved (I am 44). Hands down I appreciate the insight I get from you guys.


No offense taken. I've been called the old man for about 45 years.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Old Man Taylor said:


> No offense taken. I've been called the old man for about 45 years.


Funny thing is I've had it go both ways. I had a guy I work with who thought I was his age for years. He was already middle aged when I met him back when I was 23. When I had my LeMans towed home a few weeks ago I had to call my wife for a ride because they won't let you ride with the driver right now. She pulled up just as my car was going onto the flatbed. The driver asked me "is that you mom?" When I told him she was my wife he got quiet for a second then sheepishly said "sorry". He must not have looked close. My wife is a few years younger than me and we both basically look our age. We have been laughing about it since it happened.


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## gtoearl (Dec 21, 2009)

OK not to change the subject and certainly not to diminish the cool history were getting here.... But I ran into an issue with my 66 Gto wiring. I fixed a couple Issues under the dash. Replace the windshield wiper switch, repaired my rear speaker switch so now my rear speaker works. And now I’m trying to hook up to courtesy lights under the dash. I thought I had one hooked up before but it stopped working at one point I never addressed it. I’m having a hell of a problem trying to figure out where to hook it up at so it will shut off when the doors close via the door switches..I’m just having a brain fart and can’t figure it out. Any help out there I appreciate it.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Jared said:


> Funny thing is I've had it go both ways. I had a guy I work with who thought I was his age for years. He was already middle aged when I met him back when I was 23. When I had my LeMans towed home a few weeks ago I had to call my wife for a ride because they won't let you ride with the driver right now. She pulled up just as my car was going onto the flatbed. The driver asked me "is that you mom?" When I told him she was my wife he got quiet for a second then sheepishly said "sorry". He must not have looked close. My wife is a few years younger than me and we both basically look our age. We have been laughing about it since it happened.


Got to say...These old man stories got me laughing as well. Here are a couple more. Guy was hooking up the cable for us when the guy says to my wife"do you want to get your dad?" Its not that I look that old lol, its my wife looks younger. Aside the fact that she is. She is ten years younger than I. Her mom is 70 and looks 55. I still bring it up now and again. Also my father in law was gathering carts outside his grocery store when he said something to this young lady....she responded with f u old man. My father in law says "its not the f u that bothered him, it was the old man part"😒. Well we are older but, we got better insurance👍. Great stories OMT.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

My wife always looked younger than her age, and I was three and a half years older. I was never accused of being her father, but I was proud that they thought I robbed the cradle.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I thought I would post a couple of pictures of my wife. In the one by herself she was 48. She was getting out of the submarine ride in Oahu. The one with both of us was our 20th wedding anniversary at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas. She was 39, almost 40. She passed away 1-6-2004 at the age of 59. It's something I will never get over, but at least I had a special woman for awhile.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear that, That vegas pic she looks like she is in her twenties. Enjoying reading your adventures... but let's be sure what happens in vegas stays in vegas lol.


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## gtoearl (Dec 21, 2009)

Old Man Taylor said:


> I thought I would post a couple of pictures of my wife. In the one by herself she was 48. She was getting out of the submarine ride in Oahu. The one with both of us was our 20th wedding anniversary at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas. She was 39, almost 40. She passed away 1-6-2004 at the age of 59. It's something I will never get over, but at least I had a special woman for awhile.
> 
> View attachment 135743
> View attachment 135744


So sorry for your loss. I just can’t imagine what the pain must’ve been like.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Seeing a similar situation as your first hand I can hear where you're coming from. My mother passed away young too. She was 57 and that was 17 years ago. My dad is still not the same. 

On a lighter note. Your wife was a looker for sure. If I did the math right, you two got married very young. Not too common these days. I've been married to my wife for 21 years which doesn't seem like a long time until you consider that she is only 41 and I am 44.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

We were married 4-4-64. My wife was 19, turning 20 in the next month, and I was 23.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Here's a picture the day of our wedding. We were going from the wedding to the reception in my best man's '63 Catalina.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Before I move on to the next problems, I noticed that I had typed up a history on the Internet some years ago. It describes many more problems than I remembered. This was before I had the problems with the cam tunnels. Also there's a number typo in there that I am sure the readers will find. I will continue with the experiences later - yeah, there are more. 





__





Old Man Taylor's Pontiac 428 Rebuild Saga






natharias.tripod.com


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

OK, back to the odyssey. I had just discovered the cam tunnels were a problem in the 428 block I rebuilt twice. So I set that block aside and started over again. This time I decided to use a 400 block and cut down the 428 main journals to fit (3.25" to 3.00"). This also requires a shim kit and an Olds 350 thrust bearing to work. I attached a picture of the shim. The only reason I have a picture is that it was the wrong size. The pretty finger nails belong to my wife. You can see the relief where the shim was supposed to fit. I also upgraded my camshaft, although I don't remember why. I had been running a Comp Cam with duration of 253/260 at 0.050". Net lift with 1.65 rockers was about 0.600". Then I put in a 259/264, but I just don't remember why. I got this one running, but at the end of the cam break-in it sounded like I had a nut in one of the cylinders. It was a really loud and bad noise. Long story short, the front crank throw is a larger diameter on the 428 crank than the 400 crank. I must have turned the engine over 200 times while building it and I didn't see a problem. However, with the engine running the crank throw hit the side of the block and it "self clearanced". Well, at least I now have a 400 block that is clearanced for the 428 crank. On to another rebuild. After speaking with Jim Butler, I decided to go with an aftermarket forged crankshaft. My stock cranks had always been bullet proof, but Jim said they were starting to hear of some of them cracking. So this build would have Carrillo rods on a forged crank. No shim kit is required as the cranks are designed for a 400 block. At this time I also bit the bullet to go with a more moderate (for me) hydraulic roller. It's duration is 242/248 at 0.050" lift. Overall lift is still about 0.600" on both valves with my 1.65 stainless steel roller rocker arms. I wanted to keep compression down low enough to use 91 Octane pump gas, so I had some special pistons made. You can see that I had them dished away from the quench area. My quench was about 0.038, which is tight, but it's close to perfect. There is no pinging with my 9.7:1 CR.

I get it running, and it seems to be running great - to be continued. It's not over yet.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I just had to throw this one in here. It was "Grandpa's Night", so I took a picture of my second granddaughter with the engines. She's the 23 year old who is still recovering from being paralyzed. She was a quadriplegic in December. She's doing much better, but she's still got a very long way to go. My two granddaughter's came up with Grandpa's Night after my wife died. The engine on the left is the 428, and the one on the right was a 482 at the time. It later became a 505.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

You are an inspiration my friend. I love that you have all these pictures in digital form. Did you scan them or have the negatives converted, or? My wife and I have a box full of pictures of our boys when they were little. There was an age gap to our youngest so all of my daughters baby pictures are digital.

Grandpa's Night sounds like it was a sweet idea to help you through a hard time.

BTW. I was really excited when I saw you post another round of stories. After reading your history I feel like I know you. This is great stuff!


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Before 2004 they are scanned, after 2004 they are digital. Sometimes the projects took so long it kind of kept me going to keep a running track of the status. I have two full books of pictures of my racecar project. I haven't scanned many of them. The racecar was finished in 2000. It took 8 years for me to finish it.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Jared said:


> You are an inspiration my friend. I love that you have all these pictures in digital form. Did you scan them or have the negatives converted, or? My wife and I have a box full of pictures of our boys when they were little. There was an age gap to our youngest so all of my daughters baby pictures are digital.
> 
> Grandpa's Night sounds like it was a sweet idea to help you through a hard time.
> 
> BTW. I was really excited when I saw you post another round of stories. After reading your history I feel like I know you. This is great stuff!


I’m telling you Jared he has my upmost respect


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Just now getting around to reading your stories - thank you very for posting them. I used to be on here 'constantly' but haven't been so much in a few years. However I do seem to be getting back into it a little.

Sort of an unrelated question: I see the carb flange engine lift bracket in one of your photos. I've got one of those but I've been to nervous to actually ever use it. It just seems to me that those bolts are awfully small, that aluminum in aftermarket manifolds awfully soft, and these engines way too heavy. What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks,

Bear


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Just now getting around to reading your stories - thank you very for posting them. I used to be on here 'constantly' but haven't been so much in a few years. However I do seem to be getting back into it a little.
> 
> Sort of an unrelated question: I see the carb flange engine lift bracket in one of your photos. I've got one of those but I've been to nervous to actually ever use it. It just seems to me that those bolts are awfully small, that aluminum in aftermarket manifolds awfully soft, and these engines way too heavy. What are your thoughts on that?
> 
> ...


It works great! I will never do it any other way. AND I put the engine in with the trans installed. I used to worry about the small bolts also, but I figured the whole setup is less than 1000 pounds, which means each bolt is only holding about 250 or less. Notice that I do use a spare cast iron intake. I didn't have to guts to do it with the aluminum intake.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

OOPS, I thought the other picture had the pivot plate and not the fixed plate. I only used the fixed one for moving the engine around. The blue pivot plate is the great solution.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

"I get it running, and it seems to be running great - to be continued. It's not over yet."

I guess I'd better pick this up before I lose the rest of my memory. I spent several years after my wife died with a few engine problems that I have forgotten. The result was a really nice 428 with a 400 block using a 3" forged crankshaft. This was the first time I had tried the BEST Graphtite rear main seal. It didn't seem to take long and the engine was leaking oil. It looked like the typical rear main seal leak. I was pretty bummed so the car basically stayed parked for a long time. My oldest granddaughter was getting married (formally) in July of 2011. They were married on the base at Camp Pendleton. My son-in-law gave me a call from the rehearsal saying that Alex(andrea) wanted me to drive them from the church to the reception in the GTO, which was about 10 miles on the base. I told him how bad the car was leaking oil, and that I didn't think it was a good idea. Alex overheard and started crying, so we both thought I needed to make it work. Alex lived with me for several years, and she's the one who named the car "the noisy car". She has a lot of fond memories about the car. So I took all day Friday to button it up the best I could. I also had to drive 20+ miles to get to the base, so I was afraid I might not even make it. So I arranged with the gate security guards to take the car to the church Saturday morning. That way if the car broke I still had time to implement a backup plan. I was afraid security requirements would not let me leave the car unattended, but they said it would be OK. I took the car to the gate and stopped for security to check my various ID's. As I was about to drive in, the guard said "That's a REALLY nice car". Remember it's a "rumpety rump". I drove in with my son-in-law following me in case I had trouble, and to take me back home. When he got to the gate the guard said " that's a MANLY car", referring to my car. So I parked it at the church, went home and got ready for the wedding, and went back. Everything went well, and I got them to the reception with no problems. However, on the way home all he!! broke loose. It looked like I was spraying the weeds for bugs. Surprisingly I got home without being pulled over by the cops. It was worth it, my granddaughter was really happy. I'll describe the repairs later.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

It’s good the old goat hung in there to please your granddaughter. I think the GTO was trying her best to make it happen👍


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

This was during one of my rebuilds. It's the infamous "tilt test", at least the way I do it. It's looking for any catastrophic leaks before installation in the car. Note in the second picture that I've got a lot of oil on the floor. I added a clean paper towel to do the test again. I was quite disappointed.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Alas, I did something dumb. Surprise, surprise, look what I found. And then look how easy the fix was. This was before I had the engine running in the last post, which was one reason I was so shocked that the engine leaked so much oil.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

So onward and upward. Once I went through all the hassle of getting the car to my granddaughter's wedding, I decided it was time to fix it. I was just sure the problem was the rear main seal. So out comes the engine again. B/T/W, if it was easier to do the pan in the car I wouldn't have been taking the engine out of the car so much. I got the pan off, took of the rear main cap and the seal looked perfect. 

Here's a picture of what I found.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

**it happens Taylor and that would make a mess. While tuning my 91 GTA I dropped the plug on the floor trying to change no 7 by the master cylinder. I picked it up from under the car and finally got it in. Fired it up and definitely had a skip, traces it down to no 7. Changed the plug wire to no avail still was not firing. So I took the plug back out gas fouled, turned out when it fell on the floor it closed the gap completely 👎


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

This picture might give you a hint as to what I found, but you'll have to remember some of the details I mentioned with previous problems.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Without further ado, remember that I had trouble getting my stud girdle too low and thinking that might have caused my previous engine problems. Which it hadn't. So I had pockets machined into the ends of the girdles to give more clearance to the ends of the rocker arms, and I raised the girdle on the studs. Back to the picture, note the open path in the pan gasket, giving a path for oil to exit the pan. This is why I thought it was a rear main seal as the oil was basically coming from the same place. I'm thinking that could have been caused by excess pressure in the crankcase, but I've got a breather in each valve cover. I started checking the breathers closely. The issue was that the breathers are the rubber push ins with the air coming into the bottom of the breather. I had raised the stud girdles enough that the breathers were bottoming against the stud girdle. There was no way for the crankcase pressure to exit, so it made a way. My solution, besides installing a new pan gasket, was to both lower the stud girdle some and to drill holes sideways into the rubber portion of the breathers (parallel to the stud girdle). Even if they bottomed air could still come in from the sides.

I know there were additional problems between about 2004 and 2010, but due to the sudden death of my wife of 40 years on 1-6-04, my memory is bad. There was no warning, and in about 10 minutes she was brain dead. I was a basket case during that time, and I've still got problems. I did get the engine going well in 2012/2013, and I've had no problems with the engine since then. 

I did have an issue with the drive train. I had the Eaton Moroso Brute strength posi in the car since the 80's. Since I was "using" the car, I had a 4.33 gear set behind an M-22 4-speed. Several years ago I went to a Cars and Coffee get together at Jay Bittle's (JBA Speed Shop). They meet early in the morning for coffee and donuts, and later they have burnouts. I rolled into the burnout not knowing my posi had just broken. I still gave it a good burnout, but driving out of it was quite noisy. At least it broke at a place where it could get fixed. Since I was no longer "using" the car I decided to put 3.73's in with the new posi. That's the lowest number I could go to on a 4 series carrier, and I wanted it more highway friendly. The result was that it wasn't enough for the highway, and it made the 2.20 ratio first gear terrible. BUT it was good for a 5-speed, which I installed a year or two later. I got the last LGT-700, which I am really happy with. The 3.73's are now perfect.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Taylor I hate hate it about your wife, can never understand why bad things happen to good people


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I don't remember if I posted this before or not. It's in the early 70's, so we were married about 10 years and she was about 30.


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