# Need opinion on 67 gto restoration



## crzng (Jul 27, 2013)

Got a 67 gto that I want to restore. I have never done any auto restoration so I haven't got a clue how deep I'm getting myself into.

I want to restore my ride as a driver. Need opinion on frame off versus not.
Second, some recommends media blasting and others sanding by hand.

Appreciate any comments.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Depends on the condition of the car really. Major rust repair to the floor and a frame in shabby condition might want to consider a frame off. Convertibles IMO are more difficult to frame off as the structure is weaker and will require reinforcement to the body to separate it from the frame. 

Post up some pictures of your project and maybe we can help you assess how far you should go. :cheers


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Just remember a dis-assembled car takes up three times as much space as an assembled one.


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## SlamminGears65Goat (Apr 29, 2012)

Be prepared to spend twice as much $ as you expect to.
The frame off is a MONSTER PROJECT. At the same time, if you have the time, PATIENCE, and budget, it can be the most fun you will ever have being completely frustrated. I am in the 5th year of my frame off, and I subbed out most of the reassembly to a local pro. He was fair, honest, and not that much per hour, and the total tab will still be around $25,000. That's paint, bodywork (there was a lot) sandblasting, etc, etc. 
DON'T LET ANYONE SANDBLAST THE BODY PANELS!! Too many stories of guys getting the panels warped from someone who didn't know what they were doing. Stay here in the forum, keep posting pics and asking questions. You're doing it right, asking guys who have been, and still are, in the trenches. Post those pics too!!


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## crzng (Jul 27, 2013)

It took a while to find out how do you post pics. But here it is. The most rust damage is the tail light and rear window. I want to know if soda blasting is the way to go or sanding it by hand.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

That actually doesn't look too bad, if that's the worse I might just take all the chrome off and DA it down to bare metal. At this point I wouldn't be too quick to pull it off the frame unless you have frame damage or the floors are just toast.


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## skurfan (Sep 19, 2012)

I had tail light panel rust a bit worse than that. I was trying to keep my car original paint, which is far from show quality. Last fall I ground out the rust to bare metal and put spot welds to fill the holes. Ground those down to as smooth as I could and skimmed over 3M premium body filler and sanded smooth then white primer. My car is Cameo Ivory. It looks great so far. Today, I took it for some paint estimates....10 and 12 thousand was the ballpark estimates. My dilemma is this....if I spend that money on his car I will have 24k invested into it. The interior is nice original and it runs and drives great just as it is now. The engine compartment is not detailed. So with what I am seeing at mecum and other auctions, I don't see that car bringing the value. I have alot of fun in it now and get lots of attention with it in its unrestored state, so I think I will keep it original, save my 12 thousand and go from there. My point is....on these restorations, you probably won't get near you money back so do what makes you happy with your car, and think before you sink thousands and thousands into it.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree with Rukee, get the surface rust off and asses it from there, looks like a body on resto to me unless you run into some surprises that would force you to take it apart.

Skur, i would just spot touch up that car and keep it as a survivor, your already way ahead of the game for what you have into it. White will be easy to blend in too.


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## AMT1379 (May 11, 2010)

I don't want to highjack the thread, but I do want to ask a related question. As it's something to consider if you've never completed a project before. I see some of the cost numbers folks put out there for their restoration projects and I'm sure their accurate. How are people affording this? Is there financing for this kind of work, or is this usually cash out of the mattress?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

We could tell you but then we would have to kill'ya...:shutme.... But really, hard work, save your pennies (and Franklins). Some places will finance finished cars but none i know of will finance a "project". Big reason why a frame off can take years and even a decade. If you can do your car while still enjoying it (driving) you are much better off IMHO. Get it running and safe then worry about making it pretty, body and paint are the single most expensive part of a resto.


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## crzng (Jul 27, 2013)

Appreciate everyone's comments. The car has no frame damage. Never had a collision.
I thought of frame off restoration just because I wanted to do a real good job restoring my ride to original but not a trailer queen. Based on everyone's comment and people I've talked to that have restored their ride, media blasting is quick but could have some bad result.
I recently went to the goodguys car show and spoke to someone with a really good gto restoration. He spent around $25K and wow, his ride looks awesome.
Gonna check out some body shops.


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

I agree with an earlier comment about getting it running. It makes no sense to get the body and paint done if the car is not mechanically sound. Body and paint work is the last thing you want to do. I have seen projects that went that direction and people did not want to put $$$$ in to engine, trans, suspension and ended up selling car. Never count on making a profit if you have to sell it during the restoration process or even when it is done.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

This is tricky issue. I'm nearing the end of a body off restoration of a '72 C10 Stepside. It didn't start out to be a complete restoration, just fixing some rust, sanitizing and painting. Before I knew it, the cab was off and the attitude of "well, I've come this far, why stop here?" took over. Now, it's nearly back togethe, complete with powder coated frame and suspension components and every nut and bolt has been touched. It's been a little over two years and I fired her off last Saturday. I hope to drive it around the block this weekend. 

I sort of lived the "If you don't have the time to do it right, where do you find the time to do it over?" philosophy. I was fortunate to be able to use this project as a teaching opportunity for my 19 year-old nephew. So the money spent was well worth it. He was diagnosed with Epilepsy about three years ago and this was the only thing that got him out of bed in the morning. Now, he wants to get into the automotive repair field and has begun working in a European shop for my brother (his other uncle).

It's a slippery slope, though and should not be taken lightly. 

Chuck


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I have many friends and know many people who are performing "body off restorations" on thier cars. These cars have not been driven in over 20 years in some cases. One of them out of 10 or 12 has been completed. It took 23 years. I have a friend who I introduced to GTO's when he was 20. He got a nice original '66 then. He tore it apart for a frame off restoration it didn't need in 1992, and it's still apart. He's 43 now. I don't expect him to be driving it until he's in his mid 60's. Seriously. Me, I bought my '65 at 21, and my '67 at 22. I've been driving them ever since. Every year. I've fixed what needed fixed, painted them, etc...but never had them out of service. I enjoy driving them too much. I'm 52 now, and while my peers have been goatless for decades, I'm out driving my GTO's. I would NEVER do a frame off unless the car was very rusty (and then I would pass) or unless I wanted to for the fun of it and had some money to burn. I _may_ do a frame off on my '67 ragtop after I retire for the heck of it...but I'll have to score another GTO ragtop to drive while I do. Think long and hard before you tear a car apart down to the waterline. A lot of them never go back together.


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## Darth (Apr 30, 2011)

This ^

I know lots of folks who have torn apart cars in their garages.  "I'll get to it someday."  That was 20 years ago.


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## skurfan (Sep 19, 2012)

As for the frame off restoration in a garage goes. I just TRADED my pool table for a 1968 Camaro that a guy took apart ten plus years ago. All the metal work was done, it is rust free but apart. He would never have driven that car. He is almost 70. Tons of new parts came with the trade. Point is....I would rather be on this end of the deal than the guy that will never get to drive his dream. These cars should be enjoyed and driven. If they are not perfect to the judges, who cares? Perfect enough for me.


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## garysgoats (Nov 28, 2012)

get rid of rear body panel not worth trying to repair .i have replace 4 of these with aftermarket panels they fit great and u wont have any return rust .not a big project if done correctly hard to tell if it was replaced .i have also used nos ones no difference u will have to weld in small straps for wiring so dont throw away on old panel and will have to drill a few holes for wiring clips that snap in


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I did a frame-off on my '69. It took me about 25 years, start to _drivable_ (are they ever really finished?). 

Having been through it I'd make these observations:
1) Financially, it's a disaster. You're going to spend at least two or three _times_ what the car will ever be worth, and THAT is with you doing all the work yourself. Unless you're already a professional restoration person you'll spend as much on tools, equipment, and consumables as you will on parts. If you're paying someone else to do the work, then the cost will be even more and you'll probably not be happy with the results.
2) _All_ reproduction parts are of lesser quality than factory originals. Period.
3) The odds are against you. For every one "completed" restoration, there will be dozens if not hundreds more cars that are never assembled again once the process is started. It's not that people who start them aren't serious or motivated, it's because a restoration project is a black hole when it comes to time, money, and most of all your emotional well-being. Spending years and thousands of dollars/hours on something with very little to show for it is devastating to your self image. Eventually as time passes, every time you see it in your garage (or wherever) you're going to start to see nothing but failure - a job you haven't finished - a job you have no idea _if_ you can finish (let alone when) - and it's going to drag you down. 

I started on my 69 in about 1985 with the best of intentions (but little else). I was going to be different. Well, after getting it blown apart, the frame blasted and painted, (that took about a year by itself) I both ran out of cash and hit another wall in the form of a divorce. "Things happened" and I had no money to spend on it and no place to work on it - for the next 15 or so years. Life got better and I got a place (at the insistence of my then new bride, Mrs. Bear) but there was still no money for it. Even after that it took a few years before I could get the shell and the other pieces moved from the storage facility to the new house. I worked on it "some" but not much. Then in the summer of 2008, I got a nice bonus from work and Mrs. Bear, bless her, suggested I take it all and finish the car. I won't give the exact figure of that bonus but it was a good distance north of $10,000. I spent all that, and the next TWO bonuses and the next three years getting the car "done". For that whole time, if I wasn't at work or sleeping, I was out in the garage working on the car -- nights, weekends, holidays. Had it not been for her, her support, and her willingness to 'let' me blow all that time and money -- it'd still be sitting in pieces. I've never admitted to this before in public, but I just searched Quicken and reported all the expenditures in there since 2006 that I tagged to the GTO and totaled them up. It came to $46,120.15. That's hard money in parts, equipment, tools, and consumables. It doesn't include anything prior to 2006 like the parts and equipment I bought when I started in the 80's, nor does it include the 15 some odd years of storage fees I paid. If I were to sell this car today for top dollar, it _might_ bring $15,000-$20,000 --- maybe. Personally I'm ok with that because I didn't build it to sell, I built it for me (and my sons after me).

So, I'd recommend not embarking on a frame off project unless the car truly needs it and you're prepared to see it through, both emotionally and financially.

Bear


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*Here. have this $100 dollar bill, for your $1 bill*

Bear, you should come down here and talk to my neighbors, (if you're ever looking to sell it. :lol: ) Seems like everyone I've talked to asks me how much I want for it. When I tell them around $18,000, they (most) all say they'd pay upwards of $20,000. Whether they would or not remains to be seen, but I'll bet you'd see a good $30,000+ for yours (still nowhere near what you put into it, but much better than $15,000. :willy: )


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

_Very_ well put, Bear. Good to have you back with us, too!!!


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## crzng (Jul 27, 2013)

Great to hear from all you guys that are in process or has completed your car.

I didn't want to spend alot time to do the restoration myself. So I talked to one bodyshop and plan to see two more that restores muscle cars.

I figure about $10k for the body, $5k for the engine, $4k for the tranny and maybe $3k for the interior and $8k for whatever parts that I want to upgrade. All in all, I plan to drop about $30K so that she drives and looks good.

A couple of the guys at the car show I went to put about that much money on the body work on their ride. One guy put 8K on the body and the other 12K. I have to say the guy that paid 8K for his car looked better than the 12K. There was one restoration shop up north that brought 4 cars that he just completed. I have to consider him. The cars he brought was awesome.


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