# 67 GTO Convertible Questions



## Dreli (Sep 12, 2020)

I am considering a 67 GTO Convertible with 400 and 4 speed. The seller believes all the numbers match, but I would like to verify before I purchase. Where exactly on the engine is the serial number? And, which number on the Data Tag should it match? Is the trans labeled similarly? I found a number on the trans, but not sure if it is a part number or a serial number. At the most basic level, when the term 'numbers matching' comes up, is that implying the engine and the chassis only it does it include more components?

Last question -- I understand there were 9,512 67 GTO convertibles made, but how many with a 4 speed? Are there any details on the number of vehicles made by color/trans?

Sorry for the extremely basic questions, but this is my first attempt to own a classic car and the 67 GTO had been my dream car since I was a kid. I do not want to make a mistake and buy it purely on emotion, but I want to use logic and buy it intelligently.


----------



## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

welcome
you have a big learning curve coming 


Tin Indian Performance GTO VIN Decoding




Wallace Racing - Engine Code Charts


if the seller is proudof it being matching numbers he should be supplying pictures to verify
motor vin is on the passenger side of the block beside the timing cover below and behind the lower radiator hose
but I dont think 67's were stamped ,,,, my early YZ 68 built in 67 isnt stamped my later 68 WS built in march 68 is stamped
the date for the muncie is usually on the passenger side of the tranny behind that big casting number you probably saw
its running vertical ..next to the mid plate. like mine in the picture
again more than likely no vin stamp if it a 67... just the date 
matching numbers tell the seller to send picture proof


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

VIN number stamping did not begin until the 1968 year as BLK69JUDGE pointed out, so you will have a 2-letter engine code and the numbers you see above that is the Engine Unit Number (EUN) and might be found on the PHS documents to verify.

The rear axle will also have a 2-letter stamped code to tell you the axle ratio. It is on the axle tube, about 2-3" away from the center section, but can be extremely hard to find without a good wire brush cleaning. The casting itself will have cast numbers/date codes as will the engine block/heads/intake/carb/distributor housing/exhaust manifolds also have either a casting number, or a casting number and date so you can verify much of the running gear as being original to the car.

Best bet is to always verify the car with the available documents from PHS that will show the build sheet for that car and you can match/verify things off of it.

4,313 convertibles had manual transmissions. I don't have a break down for 3-speed vs 4-speed, but would imagine way more 4-speeds.


----------



## Dreli (Sep 12, 2020)

BLK69JUDGE said:


> welcome
> you have a big learning curve coming
> 
> 
> ...


BLK69JUDGE, I appreciate your response and suggestions. Thanks for the support. I know I have a lot to learn, but I am a quick study.


----------



## Dreli (Sep 12, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> VIN number stamping did not begin until the 1968 year as BLK69JUDGE pointed out, so you will have a 2-letter engine code and the numbers you see above that is the Engine Unit Number (EUN) and might be found on the PHS documents to verify.
> 
> The rear axle will also have a 2-letter stamped code to tell you the axle ratio. It is on the axle tube, about 2-3" away from the center section, but can be extremely hard to find without a good wire brush cleaning. The casting itself will have cast numbers/date codes as will the engine block/heads/intake/carb/distributor housing/exhaust manifolds also have either a casting number, or a casting number and date so you can verify much of the running gear as being original to the car.
> 
> ...


Pontiac Jim, I appreciate the detail provided. Happy to hear only 4,313 convertibles with manual trans. I will order the PHS documentation once I take possession of the vehicle. I just negotiated the purchase this morning and should have it in my garage this weekend. The wife isn't completely thrilled about the idea, but she should come around once we take it for a cruise or two! Thanks for your support, as well. I know I'll have more questions as I get deeper into this hobby.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dreli said:


> Pontiac Jim, I appreciate the detail provided. Happy to hear only 4,313 convertibles with manual trans. I will order the PHS documentation once I take possession of the vehicle. I just negotiated the purchase this morning and should have it in my garage this weekend. The wife isn't completely thrilled about the idea, but she should come around once we take it for a cruise or two! Thanks for your support, as well. I know I'll have more questions as I get deeper into this hobby.


Sounds good. When you get the car, post a few pics so we can enjoy it as well. We like convertibles. Oh, and those diamond earings your wife has always dreamed about, well, you know what you gotta do now, right?


----------



## Montreux (Mar 8, 2009)

Dreli the term “numbers matching” has really had its definition stretched recently!

The engine casting number for 67 is on the top of the block near the distributor. There is a screw-in plug that may obliterate a couple of digits. Wallaceracing.com has a listing of casting numbers. This should verify a 67 400ci engine. 

On the front of the block under the passenger head is a two-letter code that will tell original HP, auto or manual, two or four barrel. The long number is the Engine Unit Number (EUN), not the VIN. This number appears on the build sheet available from PHS. This will confirm (or refute) that you have the ORIGINAL engine. Or you could have a non-original but “correct” engine code. Some people consider this “numbers matching”; others accept only the ORIGINAL engine as numbers matching. 

Cylinder heads should be 670 castings (above center exhaust ports). You can look at the trim tag to get the production date of the car and compare it to the casting dates of the heads and block to see if they could be original. You can’t prove they are original, but you might prove they’re NOT. 
Intake manifold is a one-year-only casting, and mounts a Rochester Quadrajet carb. (Big cars and 326’s used Carter AFB’s in 67).

You can also check the carburetor number. There may be 10 different Qjets for 67–manual or automatic, California or 49 state, base or HO, etc. Do your homework!

No Tri-powers for 67, but a lot have been retrofitted.


----------

