# Best Pontiac Engine Builder in Detroit?



## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Hey all,

I'm buying some 74cc D Port Kauffman heads from Tin Indian, their cam, Butler stroker assembly and I have a usable block. Does anyone have any recommendations for a motor builder in the Detroit area? I'm thinking of Chuck's Engine Exchange in Westland.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

:nerd:z:nerd:I had Butler do mine they are fabulous. When they race prep and build your engine, really first class. If your don’t have any luck you might reach back to Butler and explore some prices. I have been to their shop many times, it is well stocked and that machine shop is clean as a pin and real pros.

They are great people too, they will talk straight with you. And can supply period short blocks too.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Thanks, LG. Was hoping to find something closer to home, although I'll be using Butler parts.... I gotta think that someone in the Motor City can still build a Pontiac engine. Going to check on prices with Tin Indian. They're a three hour or less drive from me if I can't find anyone I like around the D.

I'm usually a more cogent writer.... I just read my original post. Did I really say I'm going to buy "some" heads? Two. I'm going to buy two heads.....


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Holbrook is right down the street from me. Anyone know if they do old engines or just new race stuff? Back in my younger days, Carl Holbrook was the guy to see, for Fords anyway....


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## bigD (Jul 21, 2016)

Don't know of any in the Detroit area. 


KRE & DCI are in Ohio.

Kauffman Racing Equipment

https://www.dcimotorsports.com/services/pontiac-v8-engine-builder/

Paul Sandoval is a little farther away, just north of Indy. 

https://www.sandovalperformance.com/


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## Autie1969GTO (Mar 5, 2019)

May I suggest Impastato Racing Engines - Chesterfield Township 
Chesterfield Township › Automotive Parts Store
Phone, (586) 749-0200 · Address. 56305 Precision Dr; Chesterfield Township 48051 ... Out of every "best" engine rebuilder out there, Vince was the best from my own personal experiences going back to 1984.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Thanks BD. I'm checking out KRE and Tin Indian in OH. I've heard that the Tin Indian guys do a better porting job on the Kauffman heads than KRE does.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Thanks Autie, will definitely check him out. Also checking out Ray Gonzalez in Dearborn Heights.


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## Limelight (Aug 19, 2017)

Dan Jensen hands down. I guess it all depends on what your looking for as far as end result and local support.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Afraid my contacts up that way are no help.

I am fortunate to have one of the best Pontiac builders about 50 miles from me in Greenwood, SC He has done Pontiacs for several guys on the PY forum with great results. He also has access to a dyno for his builds. Here is the most recent build on the PY forum (member came down from Maryland):

Dyno Day 461 Stroker - PY Online Forums

Here are links to Mr. Sless's business:

https://greenwoodautoparts.com/






Not helpful to our OP but for any members closer, hope this info is helpful.


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## motown (Jul 7, 2018)

*engine builder*

I think Milt Schornack of Royal Bobcat fame is or was affiliated with Motor City Muscle/D&S engine at some point in the past. At a minimum, they were Milt's choice for the Royal Bobcat tribute car. 
Motor City Muscle 

I'm keeping a close eye on this thread, I'm also looking for an engine builder in the Motor City to rebuild and update my matching numbers '66 engine. I'll keep mine close to stock specifications although updated for modern fuels. I like the upgrades that are part of their process, the Stage I will probably be fine for my needs:

"A base engine build consists of remanufacturing back to factory specifications. Including : Machine work, fit and finished work. New parts include: Pistons, rings, bearings, block/head plugs, cam, lifters, pushrods, rocker nuts, valve springs, valves, timing set, oil pump, gaskets/seals, ARP fasteners."


During my last visit Barry at Sonic mentioned a top Pontiac engine builder who was a former Pontiac employee, I forgot the guys name although i'm sure that Barry would be happy to share it with you.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I used Fastlane Racing in Taylor, he knows Pontiacs, Wife has a 69' Firebird (just like my first car) I have been trying to get her to part with for years. Clay is the owner, last name escapes me. He did my motor originally almost 10 years ago, and when i had a fire 2 years ago he went through it, new bearings and put on the dual Quads i had laying around.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

> Dan Jensen hands down. I guess it all depends on what your looking for as far as end result and local support.


Perfect, thanks! Will check him out. Definitely geographically desirable.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

motown said:


> I think Milt Schornack of Royal Bobcat fame is or was affiliated with Motor City Muscle/D&S engine at some point in the past. At a minimum, they were Milt's choice for the Royal Bobcat tribute car.
> Motor City Muscle
> 
> I'm keeping a close eye on this thread, I'm also looking for an engine builder in the Motor City to rebuild and update my matching numbers '66 engine. I'll keep mine close to stock specifications although updated for modern fuels. I like the upgrades that are part of their process, the Stage I will probably be fine for my needs:
> ...


Thanks, will check them out. Going to see a guy named Gonzalez in Dearborn Heights on Van Born.


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## motown (Jul 7, 2018)

WideTrack said:


> Thanks, will check them out. Going to see a guy named Gonzalez in Dearborn Heights on Van Born.


please let me know what you find there, as I mentioned needing similar work. good luck


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

motown said:


> please let me know what you find there, as I mentioned needing similar work. good luck


Will do. Going to see Gonzalez tuesday. He couldn't make it yesterday. Have an email in to Motor City Muscle but haven't heard back from them. Tin Indian told me around $15k, pending an itemized quote to have them build the engine I want. Basically, a 500 HP stroker.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Well, I think I picked my engine builder...... Ray Gonzalez in Dearborn Heights. He used to work for Royal Pontiac in the good old days (He's 82 years old!!). I took the bore gauge to the block that's been sitting in my garage for close to 30 years and was happy to find bore diameters around 4.129......Next stop, buying the stroker kit. 

The guys at Tin Indian tole me I could go to 11.5:1 with flat top pistons and Kauffman 74 CC heads and still run on pump gas. I think I'm going to go with the 85cc heads and keep it around 10.25:1. 

Cam will either be a Lunati VooDoo or Tin Indian's custom grind that looks similar to the Ram Air V cam. I think it's their HO 041 grind. 

I'm leaning toward using the original 4bb Pontiac intake. 

Will now be searching the forum for suggestions on carbs.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

motown said:


> I think Milt Schornack of Royal Bobcat fame is or was affiliated with Motor City Muscle/D&S engine at some point in the past. At a minimum, they were Milt's choice for the Royal Bobcat tribute car.
> Motor City Muscle
> 
> I'm keeping a close eye on this thread, I'm also looking for an engine builder in the Motor City to rebuild and update my matching numbers '66 engine. I'll keep mine close to stock specifications although updated for modern fuels. I like the upgrades that are part of their process, the Stage I will probably be fine for my needs:
> ...


Well, I have a call in to D&S in Clawson:
Contact Us - D&S Engine Specialists

A local guy with a lot of Pontiac experience recommended Vic Knight too. Have a call in to him also. Vic's in Commerce Twp. Thank you all for the recommendations. 
About Us - Vics Auto and Performance Responsive


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## dd68gto (Nov 14, 2012)

WideTrack said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm buying some 74cc D Port Kauffman heads from Tin Indian, their cam, Butler stroker assembly and I have a usable block. Does anyone have any recommendations for a motor builder in the Detroit area? I'm thinking of Chuck's Engine Exchange in Westland
> 
> I didn't read on what your goals are? Is this a street car or for racing ? I'm just curious as you look like your spending huge money on a motor that is most likely a drag racing motor.only I'm not for 500+ hp motor that you want to drive on street. Lots of issues. Heat/ vacuum, and many more. I had a local shop help built a nice motor for 3800 but only 360 hp 450 lbs but it's a blast on the street . I can melt the tires and drive in summer with ac and never over 190 temps . Just make sure you know what your getting into and it matches what you want . Good luck on your build . Doug


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

dd68gto said:


> WideTrack said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all,
> ...


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

I talked to Vic at Vic's Performance in Commerce Twp. Vic gets $1500.00 to assemble the engine on top of any machine work. He's backlogged until December or January. 

D&S Engines/Motor City Muscle told me to bring them what I had so they could look at it and give me a price.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

Autie1969GTO said:


> May I suggest Impastato Racing Engines - Chesterfield Township
> Chesterfield Township › Automotive Parts Store
> Phone, (586) 749-0200 · Address. 56305 Precision Dr; Chesterfield Township 48051 ... Out of every "best" engine rebuilder out there, Vince was the best from my own personal experiences going back to 1984.



Talked to Vince. I got the impression that he didn't like that I was planning to come in with with already purchased parts rather than buying the parts from him and letting him mark them up 15%. I can totally understand that, as my dad used to operate a small business and didn't like when people tried to nickel and dime him only to have them get the wrong parts. 

Vince was honest and said he does mostly high performance race stuff for regular customers who don't ask him for a price and just say: "Just get the job done", knowing that he's no going to take advantage of them. 

So, I've crossed Impastato off the list. On the the next!


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

I gave Chuck's Engine Exchange a call. Nice guy, actually recommended someone else for what I want: Kinetic Racing, across the street in Westland. I talked to Chris at Kinetic. Nice guy, took the time to answer questions. $3,000.00 for assembly and machining with my parts. 

http://kineticracingparts.com/about_us.php


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## Autie1969GTO (Mar 5, 2019)

I am glad you found a place that will fit your needs. I used to work for a well known Pontiac mechanic from Royal, back in the 80's, and Vince's shop was right next door when they were located in Clinton Twp. Some of the machine work was sent to Vince's because of the high quality work he did. I remember Vince "pulling his hair out" over mismatched connecting rods, used pistons, etc. being brought in and people expecting him to build a 10 second engine out of crap parts (not meaning you personally). So yup, I can see him wanting to do it that way. After I was screwed so many times by some of the "best" engine rebuilders, and spending thousands of dollars, and many hours wrenching/pulling engines and wondering if any of them knew how to use a mic, I personally found it easier and cheaper in the long run to pay a little more at the beginning, then to pay a lot more re-doing it later. Yes, he is a "higher end" machinist/rebuilder. And yes, I remember based on Vince's reputation of honesty and quality and seeing first hand his meticulous ways, giving him my engine/heads and just getting a "ballpark" estimate. I was never disappointed. I am still running the same engine/heads, he did for me back in 85(?) and I used to run the shit out of my 69' at Detroit and Milan dragway. I have been out of the loop for so long, that was the only engine rebuilder I could suggest with confidence. Sorry it didn't work out. Let us know who you finally decide to do your work and their quality.


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

I have no doubt that Vince does great work (he really did remind me of my dear departed dad!) and I certainly didn't want to offend him. I just got the feeling that he shut me down as soon as I mentioned already having bought parts (wouldn't give me even a ballpark estimate if I bought the parts from him instead of providing my own). So much so that I asked the next guy if I should buy the parts myself or let him buy the parts, mark them up and charge me less for the machine and assembly work. The first guy I talked to told me to get the parts myself (as long as they were new) because I could save a couple hundred on sales tax that way. 

I would never presume to question how a guy runs his business. They're going collect what they need to collect regardless of how they charge for it. My dad used to have a small music store. He made most of his money on repairs. He was up front with customers about having one rate for repair work for someone who bought the sax from him and a different rate for someone who bought the instrument online from a wholesale big box place and just brought the horn to him for repairs/overhauls. And working on that person's job in his one-man shop would also cause a bigger backlog for his regulars.


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## tmd171 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hey Doug, is your motor stock? I'd like to hear the details.
Tom


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## WideTrack (May 7, 2008)

tmd171 said:


> Hey Doug, is your motor stock? I'd like to hear the details.
> Tom


Hey Tom,

No, not stock, sorry for the late reply. I was picking my dog up to put him in the truck and I tore my bicep tendon off the bone..... That led to surgery and not lifting anything for 6 months. I didn't have the motivation to look at the forums til now.... But now I'm back!

Final choices (I pulled the trigger and got the parts) was this:

.30 over 1968 400 block
Edelbrock 72cc round port heads
22 cc dished Ross pistons
Forged Scat crank
Forged Callies rods
Stock cast spreadbore intake
Quadrajet 850 cfm from Cliff Ruggles
Lunati hyd roller cam, .515/530 lift
4.25" stroke to 462 ci.
Probably going to start out with an HEI ignition.
Should be right around 10:1

Kinetic Racing in Westland, MI is doing the work. 

I'll let you know how it comes out....


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## Mikes145 (Jun 24, 2014)

WideTrack said:


> Hey Tom,
> 
> How did your engine turn out from Kinetic? That's 5 minutes from my house. I have a 69 gto that I've considered having freshened up.
> 
> ...


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## tmd171 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hey Doug, any update on your engine build?
Tom


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