# Are these cars investments in any way?



## londo (Aug 12, 2007)

Ok well im planning on keeping my goaty for a long while but ive seen on some threads people saying how with so many crashes and so little made these babies might be worth somthing in the future. Which is what i was kinda thinkin to i mean there getting pretty scarce around were i live, but then you have others saying get serious there cars and there ggoing to be worth peanuts just like anyother car. I was just looking for some of this sites many car enthusiast expert opinions.


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## GRR_RRR (Oct 19, 2006)

Like most cars, they will continue to depreciate for the next 7 to 10 years. After that, they will probably remain stagnant for another 10 to 15 years until they begin to appreciate. Excellent, original low mileage cars will be worth more sooner. The chances are slim that you will recoup your original investment anytime soon.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I was supprised to see what mine was still worth according to KBB. '06, A4, 18"s, with 25,000 miles, about $27,000.


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## Devils3023 (May 21, 2007)

dustyminpin said:


> I was supprised to see what mine was still worth according to KBB. '06, A4, 18"s, with 25,000 miles, about $27,000.


My pbm 05 A4 and 17" rims with 18,500 miles is worth $24,000 still according to KBB. arty: Not to mention that I have the full SAP package which definitely will up the value of it whether I sell it next week or 30 yrs from now- the latter of which is more likely. I do agree that these cars will depreciate just like any other car the next few years, maybe a bit slower, but if you hold on to them, maintain them and keep meticulous service/maintenance records then they should bring in a pretty penny in about 30+ years or so.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Used '06's are not worth 27K and '05's are not worth 24K. 

If you want a sobering experience, try to trade your car in, or get a dealer you have a relationship with to open up his black book (auction sales for your area).

Not to throw a bucket of cold water on anyone's parade, but facts are facts.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

londo said:


> Ok well im planning on keeping my goaty for a long while but ive seen on some threads people saying how with so many crashes and so little made these babies might be worth somthing in the future. Which is what i was kinda thinkin to i mean there getting pretty scarce around were i live, but then you have others saying get serious there cars and there ggoing to be worth peanuts just like anyother car. I was just looking for some of this sites many car enthusiast expert opinions.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Devils3023 (May 21, 2007)

noz34me said:


> Used '06's are not worth 27K and '05's are not worth 24K.
> 
> If you want a sobering experience, try to trade your car in, or get a dealer you have a relationship with to open up his black book (auction sales for your area).
> 
> Not to throw a bucket of cold water on anyone's parade, but facts are facts.


Dealer trade-in is not a representation of "worth". It is worth the highest dollar amount that someone is willing to pay by definition and according to kbb that is 24k for a used 05 in my condition, which is what I could expect to get by selling the car to a third party. Look it up. The dealer is gonna low ball you, then mark it up a few grand and still have head room to bargain with a potential customer.


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## Tacmedic (Feb 24, 2006)

Devils3023 said:


> Dealer trade-in is not a representation of "worth". It is worth the highest dollar amount that someone is willing to pay by definition and according to kbb that is 24k for a used 05 in my condition, which is what I could expect to get by selling the car to a third party. Look it up. The dealer is gonna low ball you, then mark it up a few grand and still have head room to bargain with a potential customer.


I don't know. I bought an '06 6-speed a couple of months ago for $24,500 with 9,000 miles on the clock, like new condition 18" wheels. The prices will really drop when gas prices go up again. If you want to invest your money and make some, a car is the wrong place to put it.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Devils3023 said:


> Dealer trade-in is not a representation of "worth". It is worth the highest dollar amount that someone is willing to pay by definition and according to kbb that is 24k for a used 05 in my condition, which is what I could expect to get by selling the car to a third party. Look it up. The dealer is gonna low ball you, then mark it up a few grand and still have head room to bargain with a potential customer.


Good Luck with your sale if you ever decide to sell yours.

Guy just posted that bought an '06 for a little more than $20K on ebay. That said, I expect the seller may back out on the deal, but the fact is, based on a nationwide network like ebay, that's all people would pay for an '06!


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

I too just bought my flawless 9,000 mile '06 6-speed for roughly $25K, for whatever it's worth...

I am a collector, and I have quite a few rare low-mile performance cars "stashed"... So, I'll stick my neck out and call myself a bit of an "expert" on this...

Basically, GRR RRR is right, don't get too excited about how "rare" your Goat is, or the fact they aren't made anymore... It is helping the values to stay decently strong, yes. But it takes a LONG time to ever realize a return on your investment, if EVER... 

They will continue to depreciate, then they will stabilize in 10 or so years, and then, maybe after 20 or-so, they may swing back up again...

But never forget, for those of you who are not financial wizards, that in 20 years you've got compounded inflation to consider.... If you park your $25K 2006 GTO today with 10,000 miles on the clock, and in 20 years, you sell it as a "collector-grade" collectible for $35K.... Guess what, you just lost a ton of money, as $35K 20 years from now is less than $25K today.... Not to mention the insurance you had to keep on the vehicle, storage, upkeep and maintanance...

It takes a special car to ever eventually get "ahead" of inflation and ongoing expenses.. Very few relatively "recent" collectibles have won-out in this regard, i.e. Buick GNX and 1993 Cobra R-model are the only two I can think of that have turned out to be genuinely good investments, compared to just leaving your money in a high-yield interest account. The GTO may just be special enough 20 years from now to break-even, or do better, but you've gotta wait, and take the gamble, to ever find out.... And it only really ever applies to low-mile well-preserved examples...

Even a 1964 GTO, that sold new for $3500 bucks, that sells today for $40K bucks, has only really "broken-even" when you factor inflation and insurance...

That said, I'm fairly certain that once I decide to move into something else as my "daily driver", I'll likely keep this GTO, and place it into my collection... So I'm taking appropriate care such that it stays in nice clean shape...


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## madkat (Jul 20, 2006)

In the mortal words of my wife..... "Your GTO as an INVESTMENT, that is like investing in a swimming pool. It is just a place to sink your money."


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

The greatest return on your GTO investment, is the fun of driving the car.... if you want capital growth, see a financial planner for investment advise.


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## SloTymer (Sep 16, 2005)

Devils3023 said:


> Dealer trade-in is not a representation of "worth". It is worth the highest dollar amount that someone is willing to pay by definition and according to kbb that is 24k for a used 05 in my condition, which is what I could expect to get by selling the car to a third party. Look it up. The dealer is gonna low ball you, then mark it up a few grand and still have head room to bargain with a potential customer.


Ok check it out, it's time for an education. The KBB is what is not a representation of "worth". It just like the NADA represents what a bank would be willing to loan on a car. The car is actually worth significantly less. 
The true worth of a car is what someone is willing to pay for it at the time the seller is willing to sell it, no more, and no less, period.


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

KBB, Edmunds, NADA, they are all transaction-based, and relatively decent "barometers"... But the best way to judge market value is to go to traderonline, and search the entire country for a particular year/make/model, and sort them by price... Then, taking into account that some people are "dreaming" with their asking price, and others are trying to punt a car that has issues for a bargain, taking out all those types of anomalies, you'll see the fair market towards the middle of the scale, depending on mileage and common sense...

It's easy to say that the "value is worth what someone will pay...", but that does you no damn good when you're attempting to set a fair asking price, and needing to know what your bottom line is so that you can stick-to-your-guns when push comes to shove, and not get steamrollered by a guy with cash that's lowballing you, when you could be a bit more patient and get a fair price several weeks down the road...

That said, if you want to know what the current "market" is, what the hell, you're on the internet, GO TO THE MARKET and check it out... It's all right there in front of you on traderonline, or any other large-database auto-classifieds... eBay isn't that good to look at, as everybody is typically bidding... You can only go by the "buy-it-now" prices...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> The greatest return on your GTO investment, is the fun of driving the car.... if you want capital growth, see a financial planner for investment advise.


:agree


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

69bossnine said:


> KBB, Edmunds, NADA, they are all transaction-based, and relatively decent "barometers"... But the best way to judge market value is to go to traderonline, and search the entire country for a particular year/make/model, and sort them by price... Then, taking into account that some people are "dreaming" with their asking price, and others are trying to punt a car that has issues for a bargain, taking out all those types of anomalies, you'll see the fair market towards the middle of the scale, depending on mileage and common sense...
> 
> It's easy to say that the "value is worth what someone will pay...", but that does you no damn good when you're attempting to set a fair asking price, and needing to know what your bottom line is so that you can stick-to-your-guns when push comes to shove, and not get steamrollered by a guy with cash that's lowballing you, when you could be a bit more patient and get a fair price several weeks down the road...
> 
> That said, if you want to know what the current "market" is, what the hell, you're on the internet, GO TO THE MARKET and check it out... It's all right there in front of you on traderonline, or any other large-database auto-classifieds... eBay isn't that good to look at, as everybody is typically bidding... You can only go by the "buy-it-now" prices...


I'm not an internet guru, but most auto sites I've been to only have asking prices on them.

Ebay is an exception. You're wrong about the "buy it now" prices being the only barometer on ebay. "Buy it Now" is no different than asking prices on Autotrader or other car sites.

If you want a true barometer and a sobering experience given what might be your expectations of worth, trying creating an account on ebay, signing in, and then go the "completed auctions" section. That's where you'll find how many cars never reached their reserve, and of the few that actually sold, what the final price was. 

Someone basically said "enjoy the car for what it is, and get the value out of driving it". If you think you're driving around some kind of rarity that's worth a lot of money, you are going to be disappointed when the day comes that you try to recoup your investment.


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Of course the online sites post "asking prices".... But when you can go to Traderonline and pull up 317 friggin 2006 GTO's for sale right now across the country, a mix of dealers and private parties.... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to develop a fairly accurate picture and frame-of-reference, knowing that there are alot of cars on the high-end of the range that are priced unrealistically, possibly some lower-mile cars toward the bottom-end of the range that are priced naively-low (hence great deals if you're close enough for practicality of inspecting and buying), and the middle of the range is pretty much where the basic "market" sits, who are all usually willing to negotiate a grand or two, or sometimes three (depending on desperation) to sell the car....

Looking at finished auctions in eBay is just about worthless, because few of those auctions actually sell the car, unless it's a no-reserve auction... Every time I've purchased a car, or sold a car on ebay (I've sold 5 cars on eBay over the years...), the final sale price was negotiated with a buyer who was high-bid on my auction, but didn't meet reserve, but contacted me by email, and then phone, discussions and negotiations ensued, and we finally came to a concluded sale, typically THOUSANDS of dollars higher than the auction closed at...

So I disagree, there are ways that you can educate yourself online, and research to reach a common-sense idea of what your car should and will most-likely sell for... There's more to selling a car properly than simply sticking a for-sale sign in it, popping it up on eBay, and after a week or two signing the title over to the best offer you managed to get...

Anybody selling a car on a tight schedule, predisposed to accept whatever some local yokel will shell-out within that timeframe, is bound to get screwed.... That's not real value, that's poor business sense on the part of the seller and happy days for a low-balling buyer...


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

A friend of my brothers bought a 1971 Hemi Challenger brand new. He drove the car home and stored it. It has 28 miles on it. That is an automotive investment. A GTO that has been driven is not an investment. 

Someone was pointing out that a $25,000 GTO now might be worth 35,000 if it is in excellent condition and extremely low miles 20 years from now. They commented how due to inflation that they really lost money, well here is another factor. If you gave me $25,000 right now, I could invest it for real and double my money about every 8 years with some moderate risk investments. That means $25,000 would be $50,000 in 8 years and $100,000 in 16 years and $150,000 in 20 years. Even if the GTO doubled to $50,000 after 20 years, it's still a poor investment financially speaking. 

Just like a Vette, a GTO, or any car, the way to get your money's worth out of a vehicle is to drive it. If you don't enjoy it your losing money on a depreciating asset.


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## 69bossnine (Aug 9, 2007)

Yep, it's called "lost investment potential"... That's not to say that cars can't be super investments.... They can, but you have to know how to play that game, buying-in LOW, knowing when things are undervalued, and having an idea or a guess at where they'll go, and how long that may take..

But bottom-line, it's a rare day, it's an exclusive club, when you can buy a car new or near-new, and be in-the-black years down the road, big picture...

I bought my S351 supercharged Speedster brand-new in 1997. It was a chunk of change, $58K MSRP, I paid $52K (knew the dealer, and knew Saleen, as we were both on a planning-board together at the time..). I've only driven it 21,000 miles, and it is LIKE NEW. I mean it's ready for serious show, full engine compartment detail, undercarriage detail... Heck, I waxed the Bilsteins & Eibachs... It's 10 years old now, and given the current market and what S351's are bringing, I'd be lucky to get $40K for it today... It's one of 18 S351 speedsters built in 1997, one of 70 ever built, triple-black (most valuable color combo to have)....

So, putting aside all of the jokes about how "it's a Ford..", or "it's a common Mustang", I've got a limited-production 507 h.p., epa certified, 3,400 lb ultra-muscle-car from the 90's, and it's still worth considerably less than I paid...

Just drive your GTO... Putting one aside in a collection would be a cool thing to do (something that I'd be crazy enough to do  ), but don't bank your retirement on it...

Good investment cars are purchased when their values are at their lowest, or when they are already old-enough, and entrenched in an upward curve of appreciation, that (depending on what it is) you stand to make a decent return with it... I bought my Boss 429 in 1997 for $32K.... It's conservatively worth $300K today... Yes, that one's done WELL for me...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I don't forsee any modern cars becoming "worth something" in the future, like the cars before the 70's. Most of the cars that were worth something had low miles and vary few were made. There are few out there that might make the cut and one off the top of my head is the Shelby GT500KR it sounds like only 1000 is going to be made. So if some katt shrinked wrapped an authentic not a kit one for lets say "50" years it maybe worth something. Like I said before cars are the worst investment. Just my .02 correct me if I'm wrong.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

gm4life said:


> I don't forsee any modern cars becoming "worth something" in the future, like the cars before the 70's. Most of the cars that were worth something had low miles and vary few were made. There are few out there that might make the cut and one off the top of my head is the Shelby GT500KR it sounds like only 1000 is going to be made. So if some katt shrinked wrapped an authentic not a kit one for lets say "50" years it maybe worth something. Like I said before cars are the worst investment. Just my .02 correct me if I'm wrong.


My boss is banking on the very car you just mentioned. He is getting a GT500KR. It's going to have the exact stripe package his GT and one of his GT500's has. His goal is to keep the KR, the GT and the GT500 with identical stripe packages below 10,000 miles and fully detailed. 25 years from now that combo should have some value to it to a collector or a museum. 

As a side note, he has a GT500 daily driver also. I've bashed that car pretty good here on the forum. I'm going to take some of that back. The car is extremely heavy and loses some of it's performance potential because of that. For everyday driving though, it's not a bad car. It gets lousy gas mileage, about 12-13 mpg for mixed city highway.


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