# GTO not a pony car?



## MACHINE HEAD (Dec 11, 2005)

I just read two different articles on road and track and car and driver about the new Dodge Challenger coming in 2008. Now, I have to admit the car looks pretty darn cool and it has a 425 hp Hemi, but it is pretty heavy at 4100 lbs. Unbelievable to me, both articles never mentioned the GTO as a pony car, they only mentioned the Mustang GT and the Challenger. Am I missing something? Isnt the GTO a pony car as well with 400 hp? I think those two magazines slapped us Goat owners in the face. I hope the 08 GTO blows away the stang and challenger, maybe then we will get some respect.


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## UFOGTO (Dec 18, 2005)

MACHINE HEAD said:


> I just read two different articles on road and track and car and driver about the new Dodge Challenger coming in 2008. Now, I have to admit the car looks pretty darn cool and it has a 425 hp Hemi, but it is pretty heavy at 4100 lbs. Unbelievable to me, both articles never mentioned the GTO as a pony car, they only mentioned the Mustang GT and the Challenger. Am I missing something? Isnt the GTO a pony car as well with 400 hp? I think those two magazines slapped us Goat owners in the face. I hope the 08 GTO blows away the stang and challenger, maybe then we will get some respect.


car and driver really don't like the GTO for some reason... they did a comparison to a mustang GT back in early 2005 and the mustang GT won despite the fact that the GTO outperformed it. When they added up the point totals they gave the mustang more points in the "got to have it" category, just enough so that it won by 1 point out of 200 something total points. Why anyone would "got to have" a car that is produced by the hundreds of thousands and is inferior in terms of performance to the other car in the comparison is beyond me. Then when they put up the GTO against the Charger and the Cadillac CTS-V they reported the GTO as the slowest of the 3 with a 13.9 second 1/4 mile. 

road & tra.... excuse me, runway & tarmac simply prefer Fighter jets to cars judging by their comparisons in the last 12 months or so.


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## StangStalker (Aug 21, 2005)

well, we already blow away the stangs.....maybe they are just scared of us.:cool


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## UFOGTO (Dec 18, 2005)

StangStalker said:


> well, we already blow away the stangs.....maybe they are just scared of us.:cool



I've certainly considered the possibility that they are just Ford fanboys:lol: 
Besides, If I wanted a car with 300 HP I'd be at my local pontiac dealer test driving the Grand Prix GXP. I heard that they can put down a 13.9second 1/4 mile on a good day.... not bad for a $30k family sedan.


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## Noraku_6.0L (Nov 9, 2005)

UFOGTO said:


> I've certainly considered the possibility that they are just Ford fanboys:lol:
> Besides, If I wanted a car with 300 HP I'd be at my local pontiac dealer test driving the Grand Prix GXP. I heard that they can put down a 13.9second 1/4 mile on a good day.... not bad for a $30k family sedan.


:agree 
DARN RIGHT, that review pissed me off. Road&Tarmac obviously are biased and favor the Dodge and Ford lineup over the GTO. Take a look at the ChargerVsGTO reviews.


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## Leo (Oct 10, 2005)

Seems even GM has given up on the GTO. Always see really nice tv commercials for vans, vetts, and even the solstice. But no GTO commercials.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

GTO was never a pony car. the GTO in 64 started the muscle car revolution. mid size car with a big V8 motor.

the mustang in 64 started the pony car revolution, small car sporty looks, small V8 available.

Then the firebird/camaro replaced the corvair and the pony car wars began.

the challenger/charger/cuda etc were the size or lemans' but classified with the ponys.

then the muscle cars disappeared and the ponys got ever larger motors.

today the distinction blurs, and with an IRS the gto is not "designed" as a true muscle or 1/4 mile car, but more a touring car to compete with the 3 or 6 series.

are the lines blurred enough yet?

also, with production of 15000 in 04, 12000 in 05 and who knows 10000 in 06 the gto is not even a blip on the radar so the magazines ignore it. pontiac would rather one word be said by magazines about the solstice than ten words about the gto.


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

February 2006 issue of Road & Track has a pretty nice 1-page GTO ad....And it's next door to a Rolex watch and Rolex 24 At Daytona race ad.....So, the GTO keeps high-class and fast company!:cheers


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

Tom said:


> also, with production of 15000 in 04, 12000 in 05 and who knows 10000 in 06 the gto is not even a blip on the radar so the magazines ignore it. pontiac would rather one word be said by magazines about the solstice than ten words about the gto.


I agree. Pontiac does not have enough GTO's to warrant any advertising. not to mention they really do not need to. The car does very well with word of mouth and old respect. 

The magazines are a joke in and of theirselves. They put BS rumors out there about cars (v6 Solstice in a recent article) and when they review cars they have lame categories like "gotta have". All the GM cars get thrashed on their reviews. Hell they compared a $70k z06 vet to a $150k ford GT and a 4 door Charger ($40k) to a 2 door GTO ($35k). Then they say the car that is more expensive is nicer inside?????!?!?!?!? No ****!!!!!!! Why would they do that?


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## slowride (Sep 2, 2005)

Tom said:


> GTO was never a pony car. the GTO in 64 started the muscle car revolution. mid size car with a big V8 motor.


 Very true. Historically, a "pony car" was based on size. This class included the Mustang and Cougar, the Camaro and F'bird, and..later..the Barracuda and Challenger.

The original GTO was the best-known(if not the original) muscle car, along with the Chevelle, the BB Novas, the 4-4-2, the Roadrunner, the Buick GS and T-types, the Super Bee, and the big-motored Fairlanes. While the GTO was not the first car of it's type (the '57 Chrysler 300 probably was), it lead, directly, to the coining of the phrase "muscle car", and today is considered the first car to carry this title. Back then, a "muscle car" was an intermediate (sized) car, as distinquished from the smaller "pony" cars.
Today, the GTO is probably the closest thing to a muscle car being made. In actuality, it's more accurate to describe it as a GT, or Grand Touring, car.
A GT with an extra shot of hormones.....
slo


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Our Holdens are best classified as a GT- _Gran Turisimo_.


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

you guys have to keep in mind the the ones writing these article also reported the GTO as Being a 5 passenger car. I have to subscribe to most of the auto mags to keep up with the latest and greatest and I remember reading in several of the mags the GTO being listed as a 5 seater. So we can chew on that for a few minutes and reconsider how much stock we take in what these Geniuses write in there rags.


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## HTRDLNCN (Jul 1, 2005)

Tom said:


> GTO was never a pony car. .


Exactly....
original Mustangs,Challengers and Camarobirds are pony cars

original Road Runners,442s,GTOs,SS454, are muscle cars..

the Holden Monaro like Groucho said is best described a Grand Touring car.


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## MACHINE HEAD (Dec 11, 2005)

*Gran Touring*

What is the difference between a muscle car and a grand touring car then?


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Not sure about everyone else, but I would rather be in a muscle car than a "pony" car.


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

MACHINE HEAD said:


> What is the difference between a muscle car and a grand touring car then?


i think a GT like a porsche or bmw or rx7 or zx etc can take a turn without getting all bent out of shape while a muscle car cannot.

there is no line in the sand. a 911 is a touring car and a sports car, a triumph is a sports car not a touring car, the early z a sports car with touring characteristics since the heat worked. 

just like the camaro morphed from a pony car to a muscle car in the magazines. 

the gto of today is refined, especially compared to a f body.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

"Muscle Car" typically means a fairly stripped down car with a large engine, usually good for pulling low 1/4 mi ETs but not a great handling car. Car is usually low on long-term comfort as well.

A "GT" typically means a car designed for long-distance, high speed cruising, with decent road manners and comfortable interior.


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

Tom said:


> a triumph is a sports car


When they would run!:lol:


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

dealernut said:


> I agree. Pontiac does not have enough GTO's to warrant any advertising. not to mention they really do not need to. The car does very well with word of mouth and old respect.
> 
> The magazines are a joke in and of theirselves. They put BS rumors out there about cars (v6 Solstice in a recent article) and when they review cars they have lame categories like "gotta have". All the GM cars get thrashed on their reviews. Hell they compared a $70k z06 vet to a $150k ford GT and a 4 door Charger ($40k) to a 2 door GTO ($35k). Then they say the car that is more expensive is nicer inside?????!?!?!?!? No ****!!!!!!! Why would they do that?


I heard from a pretty good source that GM has been running 3.9 240hp and 3.6 255hp Solstices, as well as 5.3 and 6.0 V8 solstices through testing. The thought is it will turn up as a Saab or Chevy with a V6 base and V8 option. IMO that is going the wrong way with the car. It needs to lose about 300-400 lbs and keep its base engine and get the upcoming turbo engine.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

The Holden based GTO is a GT. It is definately not a pony car. It has way to much focus on comfort and handling to be considered a muscle car. 

The GTO is priced too low to be tested against it's real competition, a Mercedes CLK500 or a BMW 6 series. Then when it gets up against a Mustang GT, they really are so different it's confusing. People testing them need to make a decision as what is more important, comfort and handling with great speed, or the ability to impress McDonalds drive thru employees. Unfortunately they tend to pick the latter.


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> I heard from a pretty good source that GM has been running 3.9 240hp and 3.6 255hp Solstices, as well as 5.3 and 6.0 V8 solstices through testing. The thought is it will turn up as a Saab or Chevy with a V6 base and V8 option. IMO that is going the wrong way with the car. It needs to lose about 300-400 lbs and keep its base engine and get the upcoming turbo engine.



They are gonna make a Slostice with an LS2 in it, it's being done by Mallett performance and simply being called the Mallett Solstice with 100 slated to be built by October. Yes, it is faster than the Vette and Chevy is pissed about that. http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051226/FREE/51214007&SearchID=73232062862507


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> The Holden based GTO is a GT. It is definately not a pony car. It has way to much focus on comfort and handling to be considered a muscle car.
> 
> The GTO is priced too low to be tested against it's real competition, a Mercedes CLK500 or a BMW 6 series. Then when it gets up against a Mustang GT, they really are so different it's confusing. People testing them need to make a decision as what is more important, comfort and handling with great speed, or the ability to impress McDonalds drive thru employees. Unfortunately they tend to pick the latter.


VERY WELL PUT:agree


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