# Engine builder or machine shop in New England



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Hey Folks, I did a search and it doesn't look like this has popped up on here before. Does anyone know of a machine shop or engine builder that specializes in Pontiac engines in the New England area? Right now I am information gathering. I need to pull my engine to see how bad it actually is before I decide. I would like to deal local (within a few hundred miles if possible) of SE Massachusetts where I live.

Here's the fun story. The weather here was good this weekend so I decided to take the LeMans for my weekend errands. Got about 2 miles from my house when there were a couple very loud bangs and the rear wheels locked up. Lucky no one was behind me. I pushed the clutch and turned the key and the starter would not even turn the engine over. I pushed it to the side of the road, called my wife for a ride, and AAA to tow the car. I don't see any holes in the block but it is very hard to turn over by hand and the oil looks to be full of metal. 

This really isn't too upsetting because the engine in there was pretty tired and it is not numbers matching to the car anyway. It has the dreaded 4X heads. I'm just not sure if I should build what I have or look to source an engine that's already built. For kicks I looked on Ebay to see what was on there. There is a machine shop that has a few Pontiac engines in Maryland called Denny's Auto Machine. Anyone dealt with them before?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Does not sound good, but I would not go looking for another engine until you know what went wrong. May be very saveable and why buy another not knowing what you are getting? So that is my first suggestion.

If you can pull the engine yourself, pull the pan and take a look.

I would not be looking for a machine shop that specializes in Pontiac engines because the minute you say you are looking for a specialized shop, your prices just went up. Most any machine shop can rebuild an engine as long as they are good to begin with. You may want to guide them and request a few things that you want done, like tapping the front oil galley holes and inserting threaded plugs. No trick there, but most will install the "normal" welch plugs as factory did. They still work, but threaded plugs are insurance.

Get Cliff Ruggles Pontiac engine rebuild book with all the photos and read through it so you know what is going on and what you want done. If you have any skills, you can assemble some of the engine yourself to keep costs down.

You have Nitemare Performance in New Haven. Nitemare Performance Pontiac Products & Service He is a Pontiac engine builder and has been featured in magazines. Not too bad of a drive from SE Mass to New Haven, CT. My daughter lives in Fall River. My brother is in Kingston, RI, and he has a shop do work on his old cars, but I don't think they rebuild engines, but they can work on them. I plan on swinging by Nitemare's shop this year when I make my road trip to visit family.

You can also contact the Pontiac group in Warwick, Rhode Island. Again, not too far a drive, but they may be able to steer you to a good machine shop. Check out their website and contact them and see what turns up. They raffled off one of Nitemare Performance's 461 build for charity a couple years back, but I missed it by a day. Little Rhody Pontiac


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Like PontiacJim said, you need to take it apart to see what you find. At this point it doesn't hurt anything to try. At a minimum you will learn more about engines. For it to lock up like that sounds catastrophic. I've had that happen twice. On my GTO the crankshaft broke into two pieces. On my truck the two piece valve decided to go back into two pieces. I don't have any pictures of the GTO damage, but here's the 454 that broke on me.


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## R69ra3 (Jun 6, 2020)

Check out pkmachine in Fitchburg.They have very cool Facebook page.They built my ram air 3 and my dual quad 409.You won’t be disappointed.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks guys. I was planning on pulling it out and seeing what went wrong before I made any decisions on this. This time it's easy since I don't need this car on the road to get to work. This is my second blown engine in as many years. The last one was my daily which caused way more headaches (2012 GMC with the awful 5.3 AFM engine). Good suggestion on the Pontiac club. I was a nonactive member years ago. I'm probably going to yank it out within the next couple weeks. I'll check back in and let you guys know what I find. I suspect it's not going to be pretty.

Fall River is a couple towns over from me. I live in Rehoboth which is kind of a strange town for this area. It's a farming community between Fall River and Providence RI.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

Sounds like you have a closer suggestion, and they don't specialize in Pontiac, but NASCO in Saco, Maine does great work.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Way better than what my dad recommended. In the same conversation he suggested downsizing from the 400 to a 326 so that I'd get better fuel mileage, SBC and then a LS swap. All this within about 5 minutes. I can't even figure out which idea was the worst one. He did cheer me up though. I've been chuckling about it all day.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Just a quick update. Removed the transmission and exhaust (X-pipe so needed to go). I tried to start the car now that the trans is out and it still won't kick over. I put a breaker bar on the front damper and turned it over by hand. The front of the engine is tight but does turn over, the fly wheel does not move. Looks like the crank broke. Hopefully I'll be able to get the engine out by the weekend so I can pull the pan and see if it looks salvageable. I'm not keeping my hopes up on this.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

Jared said:


> Just a quick update. Removed the transmission and exhaust (X-pipe so needed to go). I tried to start the car now that the trans is out and it still won't kick over. I put a breaker bar on the front damper and turned it over by hand. The front of the engine is tight but does turn over, the fly wheel does not move. Looks like the crank broke. Hopefully I'll be able to get the engine out by the weekend so I can pull the pan and see if it looks salvageable. I'm not keeping my hopes up on this.


Oh boy, a broken crank isn't likely to leave a lot of useful stuff behind . May the automotive gods smile upon your project.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi Jared - just my two cents, but Paul Bourbeau at Bourbeau Restorations is a great guy and the President and Founder of our club, the Pioneer Valley GTO Association. He's in Monson, MA
He does great motor work and can take good care of you.

His contact is:
Paul Bourbeau
Bourbeau Restorations
258 Lower Hampden Rd
Monson Ma, 01057
413 267 5834
[email protected]


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Hey Jared, I had my Olds 455 block and heads done by Bart Barletta at Arlington Automotive Machine in Arlington, MA (781-646-1030). He's a great guy, very knowledgable, and did nice work. Best of luck to you.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks again guys. Looks like there are some options pretty close to home if I get lucky and mine can be saved. I'll know what I'm dealing with by Saturday at the latest. I'm picking up a hoist from my dad's house on my way home from work tomorrow. I may tackle it after work tomorrow or wait until Saturday morning. It depends how much shenanigans there are at work (some days are better than others). Either way, it's ready to go. This is the first time I've pulled an engine and so far everything has gone smooth. Hardest part was finding a safe place to stash the hood.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"Hardest part was finding a safe place to stash the hood."

Nah, always place it behind the car on the ground so when you get the engine running and your all excited it didn't blow up, you'll want to just hop in the seat and back it out onto the driveway and then...................


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## Daisy II (Jun 20, 2020)

I would highly recommend you to Fitzgerald Auto. (203)723-7247 located in Beacon Fall. They rebuild my 326 V8 engine and it's a standout when I go to car show. He does everything at his shop. You tell him what you like to have done. My engine very lovely and people always ask, who done you engine. You can take the engine to him yourself or have him remove it from the car. Trust me. You be amaze how the engine come back to you. Tell him 1967 Pontiac tempest 4 door recommend you to him. He would know who I'm. Please keep me in touch

Daisy II


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Hey Guys, You have all been great with the shop suggestions. The bad news is the engine does not look like it can be saved. I had my kids help me yank it out of the car this morning and I had it torn down by lunch. It is not pretty in there. Best I can guess is one of the pistons broke and a chunk where the wrist pin goes through got jammed between one of the bearing retainers and the counter weight on the crank. The cam is broken in two places, the crank two, maybe three places as well. The rear two connecting rods broke and hit the inner walls of their cylinders taking big chunks out. I've honestly never seen anything like this outside of a high horsepower race application. It looks like I'll be looking for an engine instead of a rebuild shop. Thanks again for all the support. I'll keep you guys posted as I proceed with this project. It just got way more interesting to say the least.

You laugh about the hood. I had a friend years ago that did exactly what you described.

Attached are some pictures of the carnage.


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## the65gto (Oct 9, 2008)

Sorry about that, I know the pain. My crank broke diagonally by the rear main. Broke several rings on the pistons and they in turn gouged up the cylinder walls on my original 389 that was 60 over balanced and blueprinted. UGH!


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

the65gto said:


> Sorry about that, I know the pain. My crank broke diagonally by the rear main. Broke several rings on the pistons and they in turn gouged up the cylinder walls on my original 389 that was 60 over balanced and blueprinted. UGH!


Your story is way sadder than mine. The engine in mine was out of a 74 and whoever put it in there left the 4X heads. I was told it was a recent rebuild but I have my doubts. I think the top end was rebuilt and the crank was probably original. It was very clean in there with no sludge at all and no real signs of long term wear. The worst part of this so far was issues with the engine hoists. Yes, hoists. I got one from my dad with a bad wield on the bar that the hydraulic pump was mounted to. I borrowed a second from a friend that was a low capacity hoist that wouldn't reach without being extended to where it's capacity was lower than the weight of the engine. I ended up buying a 2 ton from O'Rielly's since the local store had one is stock. That one worked great just 4 hours later than I intended and it is hot today in MA. It wasn't hot yest at 8AM when I expected to start.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Nothing but negativity. They have JB Weld that'll fix that up in no time. Seen my cousin use it on 6 rods and the crank on his Hemi and then he stuffed chicken feathers in the big hole in the cylinder and slipped a 4.5" sewer pipe down it to sleeve it. He ran it that way for 20 years before selling the car.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

That was my fear when you described the symptoms. Anytime I have had the engine lock up like that it has been bad news.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I am 90% sure I know what direction I want to take on this. I've talked this over with my wife and I am leaning towards picking up a Butler Performance short block and doing the rest of the build myself. I like that it would be all brand new parts where a lot of the other rebuilts I'm coming across reuse a lot of the bigger internals. These parts are all 50 years old and I am a bit gun shy after last week. I am going to order the book that Pontiac Jim recommended in his first response before I do anything just to make sure I'm not getting in over my head. I don't think I am. While I am not a mechanic,I have yet to come across anything on the older cars that I haven't been able to do (my wife's Mini was another story). I figure this is going to be expensive no matter what angle I take so I may as well build it just the way I would want. 

The other 10% of me says I could pick up something ready to run and have the car back on the road for the summer. It's a tough call. I know that the build it myself option will take considerably more time and it will likely be next spring before I have it back on the road. One of our other members posting that he has a Len Williams 400 for sale within the last hour has me thinking along that lines too.

Tough decision. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the support.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I figured I would bring this post back rather than starting a new one. Here is where I am at now on this project. I have found with everything, 2020 has been a slow year.

I ordered a 455 short block from Len Williams in July. I spoke with Len last week and was told that the work would be complete within the next few weeks. For heads, I order a set of ported 6X heads through Midnite Performance (stage II). I still need to follow up with Darren to see how much longer on the heads. No huge rush there until the bottom end shows up.

I have just about everything else on hand to put this all back together except the RA manifolds, carb, and radiator. I have been holding off on the carb because even though the one I had on the old engine is way too small, it ran good and I was told to break in the new engine with it since I knew it worked good (worry about that later). The carb I have is a 600 cfm Edlebrock. I am considering getting one of their 850's for this engine. I know you guys don't like those but they are so easy to tune. I will be ordering the RA manifolds soon but have questions on the radiator. I am looking at using a Cold Case radiator. Will the stock style fan with a clutch and shroud support the 450 - 500 HP that my engine will produce or should I upgrade to electric fans? Keep in mind everything I am installing is going to be new.

The other question. We are now into mid October in New England. I don't love the idea of assembling a new engine, starting it, and then letting it sit until spring. What are your thoughts? If I can make it through the break in would it be OK for it to sit for the winter?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Jared said:


> I figured I would bring this post back rather than starting a new one. Here is where I am at now on this project. I have found with everything, 2020 has been a slow year.
> 
> I ordered a 455 short block from Len Williams in July. I spoke with Len last week and was told that the work would be complete within the next few weeks. For heads, I order a set of ported 6X heads through Midnite Performance (stage II). I still need to follow up with Darren to see how much longer on the heads. No huge rush there until the bottom end shows up.
> 
> ...


Look at the *800 CFM Edelbrock AVS2*. That is what I am using on my tunnel ram. Annular booster ring on the primaries for better fuel atomization, and it has the adjustable secondary air flap like the Q-jet.

We had another member ask a similar question, but his engine was assembled and he was not going to be installing it for a good year or so. I would not assemble it, fire it up, and then store it until spring.

Once you fire it up and break it in, you will want to get it on the road and finish your break in. So I would not fire it up until you are at that point of driving it.

To assemble or not for storage is the question. My 455 is still in pieces just because I don't want to assemble it and let it sit for a long time. Instead, my block is painted and has been coated throughout with WD-40, double bagged, and sits on a layer of box carboard to absorb moisture. It is also in my house, not outside. So far it still looks as new and has been done over 4/5 years ago.

My heads are in bags and in a cardboard box & closed up. They still look new as I took one out about a month ago. All my other engine parts are still in their original shipping boxes as I received them and they still look good.

The cardboard box pieces help to absorb moisture. On the short block, I would ask Len Williams, but if me, I would paint the outside to protect it if not already painted, shoot WD-40 on the cylinders and any other bare steel, double bag it but put in a couple pieces of cardboard in the bag. The heads the same - you can ask Darrin, but I would spray it good with WD-40, bag them with some cardboard inside. When you are ready to assemble, just make sure your head gasket sealing surfaces are clean and free of any WD-40.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Good info on the AVS2 carbs. I know that I am in the minority here but I just really like the Edlebrock carbs. I've had a couple of them and have had good luck with them. I saw your post on the tunnel ram intake. That is going to look mean sticking out of the hood. 

I did read the other member's post about engine storage pretty close which is what got me thinking about my time table. The unpredictability of NE weather has me a bit leery of trying to squeeze in the build this fall. You just never know. We go from years with no snow to years with storms every other day with accumulating snow in October. It is probably solid advice to wait until the spring at this point. I'm not sure if the block or heads will come painted or not. I'll decide the best course of action for those based on how they are packaged from the machine shops. I have resisted the urge to open any of the other parts so everything else is still sealed as delivered.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Jared said:


> Good info on the AVS2 carbs. I know that I am in the minority here but I just really like the Edlebrock carbs. I've had a couple of them and have had good luck with them. I saw your post on the tunnel ram intake. That is going to look mean sticking out of the hood.
> 
> I did read the other member's post about engine storage pretty close which is what got me thinking about my time table. The unpredictability of NE weather has me a bit leery of trying to squeeze in the build this fall. You just never know. We go from years with no snow to years with storms every other day with accumulating snow in October. It is probably solid advice to wait until the spring at this point. I'm not sure if the block or heads will come painted or not. I'll decide the best course of action for those based on how they are packaged from the machine shops. I have resisted the urge to open any of the other parts so everything else is still sealed as delivered.


The AFB's are good, and if it is the type you prefer and find easier to work/adjust, then no reason not to go with it. The AFB has some great features with regards to the ease of adjusting them and dialing them in to your engine needs. I think the AVS2 is just a step up above the standard AFB and why I chose it - and because my manifold ruled out the use of the Q-jet which would have been my preference and first pic.

I think not assembling the engine would be best. I am allergic to ice and snow and after 31 years of experiencing it, I had to move south. My brother has asked me many times to help him with his business and has come up with some very good paycheck numbers, but whatever he could offer would still not be enough to go back scraping ice off my windshield & windows, shoveling snow, and wearing heavy winter coats/long underwear/hats/gloves and a scarf. LOL


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

The winters do get old. My house is on a hill with a very long driveway that slopes up towards the house. It's no fun at all when it gets icy. My company offered to relocate me a couple years back to our Tennessee location. I would have considered it if my kids were still little. At the time I had one in high school and one mid way through college. My youngest would have been the only one that would have been easy to relocate so I passed on it.


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