# Pontiac Looks Rearward: The Next Grand Prix and GTO



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

*Pontiac Looks Rearward: The Next Grand Prix and GTO*
http://automobilemag.com/news/0509_pontiac_future/​
Pontiac hopes to produce at least one rear-wheel-drive car for sale as a 2010 model, despite reports that General Motors’ rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform has been axed.

There are no immediate plans to replace the current GTO when it goes out of production at the end of next year. However, GM desperately wants to develop rear-wheel-drive cars for Pontiac—its sporty, import-fighting brand—and has started looking at a low-cost Zeta platform, referred to internally as Zeta Lite.







_Pontiac's 1999 concept could hint at the next 
generation design direction. The styling is expected 
to incorporate some design cues from classic Pontiacs 
such as the ’69 GTO and continue the trend away 
from the overwrought styling of the recent past._​

The Zeta platform—which underpins the upcoming Australian Holden Commodore sedan and Monaro coupe—was supposed to provide the basis for a number of North American rear-wheel-drive products, notably the Buick Velite roadster and the next-generation GTO, but the U.S. program was canned because it was too expensive. The Sigma architecture that underpins cars such as the Cadillac CTS was never considered, either, again because of cost issues.

Should Zeta Lite get management approval, Pontiac would like to produce two cars off the platform: a four-door Grand Prix and a two-door GTO. The Grand Prix would get both V-6 and V-8 power, while the GTO would be powered by a new version of the current, 400-hp, pushrod OHV LS2 V-8.

The GTO’s chances of making it into production probably would depend on Pontiac sharing the platform with Chevrolet, which would transfer the Monte Carlo from front-wheel drive back to rear-wheel drive. It is also likely that Chevy would end up with a large four-door sedan that either would replace the Impala or resurrect the Caprice nameplate.

Although GM enviously acknowledges that Ford Mustang customers don’t seem to care about its inexpensive and outdated live rear axle—a feature that was engineered in to reduce cost—it’s unlikely that the Zeta Lite architecture would have anything other than an independent rear suspension. Don’t expect GM to produce a Firebird/Camaro rival for the Mustang, either, as those nameplates are dead in the water.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

Exciting stuff... as long as the new GTO doesn't look like that concept version


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

> Pontiac's 1999 concept could hint at the next
> generation design direction. *The styling is expected
> to incorporate some design cues from classic Pontiacs
> such as the ’69 GTO and continue the trend away
> from the overwrought styling of the recent past.*


Continue the trend away from the overwrought styling of the recent past.

So, just what is the plastic clad pumpkin in the photo?
The sleek new future of Pontiac design?
:rofl:  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> Continue the trend away from the overwrought styling of the recent past.
> 
> So, just what is the plastic clad pumpkin in the photo?
> The sleek new future of Pontiac design?
> :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



My thoughts exactly. If the next GTO is designed here in the U.S. by Pontiac types, it's going to suck horribly.

The article's title sums it all up..."Pontiac Looks Rearward" indeed...out of their own a*sses.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

Chances are they'll decide to go the way Ford did and create a crappy modern/retro looking car  

God I so hate Ford still... :lol:


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

I remember that '99 GTO concept well. It was the sort of over-the-top flight of fancy you expect in a show car, but it did have some interesting heritage themes I wouldn't mind seeing surface in a next-gen GTO. I even felt that way at the time, back when we still had an F-body and there was no serious talk of reviving the GTO badge.

Oddly, what bugged me most about that show car was that the three accent stripes forward of the front wheel didn't line up with their counterparts aft of the wheel. If I remember correctly, Pontiac fixed that gaffe in a later version.

Speaking of heritage styling cues, my seven-year-old got a fun Hot Wheels car a couple years ago that's still in his collection. Here it is:









Yeah, yeah, I know: Stacked round headlights on a modern car? But I'm sure there'd be some way to pull off the general look in a more sophisticated way that would still make bystanders say, "Hey, is that the new GTO?" After all, there's a difference between "retro" and invoking a car's heritage in a modern design. I think the C6 is effectively evocative of several past Vettes while still being thoroughly new.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

From looking at the orange thing, I've come to this conclusion. The design team that made the aztek got some bad acid or magic mushrooms. Then they made this really "cool" ???????????????? :willy:


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## spylab (May 14, 2005)

I think those Aussies did quite a fine job with this one - let's hope GM North America doesn't take this thing over and turn it anywhere NEAR that concept. Holy hell.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

spylab said:


> I think those Aussies did quite a fine job with this one - let's hope GM North America doesn't take this thing over and turn it anywhere NEAR that concept. Holy hell.


It kind of screams BATMOBILE after a bad night at the club... but during Halloween


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

RiceEater said:


> It kind of screams BATMOBILE after a bad night at the club... but during Halloween


"URP! Too much pumpkin schnaaps! To the Vomitorium, Robin!"


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

*Not the same car*

I found this same article in my September _Automobile_ when it arrived in the mail two days ago (although I'd already read it here), but the photo accompanying the actual printed article (an artist's conception) isn't the same as the one on the magazine's Web site, nor the same as the one shown in this thread.

To those of us who have a copy of _Automobile_ at home, I suggest you go look at the picture. It's still an orange car, and while it closely resembles the 1999 show car, it's significantly different in some key areas, and actually looks better. To me, anyway. It's not nearly as over-the-top. The styling is blockier than the current car, but is really aggressive with a nose that recalls GTOs of yore.

I'd have brought my copy to work and scanned in the photo, but I forgot! Maybe someone else on the Forum can do the honors.


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## Jondster (Dec 28, 2004)

Maybe I'm just showing my age, but it seems most everything coming out of the design studios of late looks like it was designed by a pimply 17 year-old during study hall while on some bad crystal meth or Bullwinkle the Moose on one week acid bender. To wit:

-Scion whatever-the-hell-that-shoebox-on-wheels / Honda Element Cartoon is
-Pontiac Aztec (nuff said)
-Honda Element (it'd look a little less stupid if they finished painting it)
-Chrysler 300 (the more I look at that, the uglier it gets)
-"Smart Car" (huh ??? Can wait for one of those to get to the US and tangle with a Chevy Suburban)

Basically I think only stying problem the current Goat has is they coulda been a little more aggressive with the rear wheel-wells. A bit less metal would have lent a little testosterone to the appearance and allowed some heavier rubber. However the current "Cavalier Z24-with-premenstrual-bloat look" has probably kept me out of the traffic cop's field of focus.


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## resmth23 (Aug 21, 2005)

*New GTO*

I for one think the design shown above has a lot of promise. However it can do without the accent chrome lines around the front wheel wells. Such touch ups clutter what could be a dynamic design. IMHO the GTO needs to bear a strong resemblence, but not be identical to the '68 or '69 GTO's. It should look like it evolved from that design. This phototype appears to be able accomplish this feat. Word of advice to '04 & '05 GTO owners. Don't criticize new designs that date yours. Pontiac might just stop production of GTOs if they continue to have poor sales. This would negatively affect resale more than a re-style. Although there is nothing wrong with the '04 & '05 GTOs, a serious dose of visual excitement is needed to insure the modern day success of the GTO. The '05 Mustang is positive proof the retro look of a '60's muscle car icon really works in the market place. In some ways the '04 & '05 GTOs remind me of the '64 & 65 GTO's. Great motor & car hidden in an underwelming pedestrian looking body. IMO the GTO was really transformed in '66. Hope history repeats itself with the GTO, except for the duration (hope it last forever) of the new muscle car era.


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## Rockatansky (Apr 19, 2005)

resmth23 said:


> I for one think the design shown above has a lot of promise. ..... IMHO the GTO needs to bear a strong resemblence, but not be identical to the '68 or '69 GTO's.... a serious dose of visual excitement is needed to insure the modern day success of the GTO.


I couldn't agree more. While concept cars are (generally) just that - concepts - some of the details usually make it to the next gen. Maybe if Pontiac would have used some of those details they might have actually been able to sell a respectable number of cars. <still beating long dead horse> I mean, God bless the Aussies and their love for the big HP, but their auto styling ideas make me think of Canadian fashion: whatever was popular in the US about 10 years ago. </still beating long dead horse>


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## Mykdiver (Dec 30, 2004)

Bob Lutz the chairman of GM already announced the death of the Zeta platform. Now GM is looking at the Kappa platform for it's new line of vehicles.

Here is the concept GTO I found: *2008 GTO info*


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## CryHavoc (Sep 2, 2005)

Mykdiver said:


> Here is the concept GTO I found: *2008 GTO info*


*First post*

Anyway, I absolutely abhor both the pumpkin proto and the one that's linked to above. What the hell is wrong with the design crew?!? Honestly, it's not some hot rod of some video game and it needs to be more exciting than a Pontiac version of the Monte Carlo. They need to get the team that did the styling for the new Corvette and get them to come up with a design. A beautiful blend of old and new is exactly what's needed for the Goat instead of looking like a beefed up Grand Prix.


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## 1BadGoat (Nov 28, 2004)

Just looking at the new and improved GTO what a joke, makes me appreciate my 04 that much more. I think I will hold on to mine a long time. I really never cared for the retro look, after all they aged back then. Why else do you think they changed there styling back then.


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## smkdu (Sep 22, 2005)

If GM could redesign the GTO to look like it's former self without overdoing it I'm sure it be the baddest looking thing on the block again. I mean come on we all know that feeling when we see a '67 rolling passed us we're like damn that thing evil looking. I wanta have that feeling if I'm driving a american "Muscle Car " The GTO is nice but I still haven't got the comments that I did when I owned my '69 Camaro SS, do you know what I mean.


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

Jondster said:


> )
> A bit less metal would have lent a little testosterone to the appearance and allowed some heavier rubber.
> 
> However the current "Cavalier Z24-with-premenstrual-bloat look" has probably kept me out of the traffic cop's field of focus.



I have had THREE people ask me if I was driving a Cavalier.....................and two asked me if this "was the new Civic SI"...............

There is NO style to this car, it blends in with every foreign made vehicle out there............however, when I plant my foot............they do a double take and look like......."What the hell was that?"

Tickets I DO NOT need..............BTW I really love this car...........


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## NT91 (Aug 30, 2005)

vnamvet said:


> I have had THREE people ask me if I was driving a Cavalier.....................and two asked me if this "was the new Civic SI"...............
> 
> There is NO style to this car, it blends in with every foreign mad vehicle out there............however, when I plant my foot............they do a double take and look like......."What the hell was that?"
> 
> Tickets I DO NOT need..............BTW I really love this car...........



Thats why I do not get one.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

NT91 said:


> Thats why I do not get one.


Because with the Mustang you can't go fast enough to get a ticket????????? Must be a Cobra. LOL.

In all honesty I agree to some extent that the car is too plain. I bought red to make it stand out as much as possible. It is kinda neat to have people hear it and go what's in that thing. Then you see their faces when you say a 400hp Corvette V8 with a 6 speed. Shock and Awe.


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## maximumGTO (Apr 5, 2005)

RiceEater said:


> It kind of screams BATMOBILE after a bad night at the club... but during Halloween


LMAO! My thoughts exactly!


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## danrieke (Oct 12, 2005)

The thing I really like about the '05 styling is there is so much you can do to it aftermarket. It's like a blank canvas, really. Pretty boring to start with, but just waiting to reveal a masterpiece.

As for the orange mobile... I've lost my appetite. Looks like a cross between an Aztec and a Cadillac.

I'm all for concept cars, but design basics apply. Muscle cars should evoke MUSCLE.

In art, there are "mood lines"... basic shapes and patterns that evoke a specific emotional response and concept. They are common to all art; painting, music, dance, architecture, etc.

The new GTO has subtle mood lines that resemble musculature... rounded curves, slight bulges, widening and narrowing arcs. In art, these lines evoke the concept of strength and power. Not necessarily speed. These lines can be enhanced to bring them out and amplify the concept of muscle.

You also have straight "arrow" mood lines which evoke speed. I see these pinstripes on some cars, but don't feel they fit the new GTO lines. (They looked good on '60's cars as those had more straight line body angles.) The new goat itself doesn't have straight lines in its sheetmetal, so the straight line pin stripes don't integrate with the car's basic lines very well. They conflict with it.

If you look at the Ferrari Enzo or the Lamb Galardo, you see arrow-like straighter lines which evoke speed. Those hard lines and angles are meant to give that visual sensation.

The new GTO's basic mood lines are not "speed", but "power."

I'd like to see a good, pro paint job that maximized that trait.


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## vnamvet (Mar 22, 2005)

Well said.

As I remember seeing, the GTO "JUDGE" edition had scluptured, arcing, double pinstripes over each fender, which went with the overall look of the car.


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