# First Drive - After 25 Years



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

It still needs wheels and tires, and of course there are some issues to work out before it's truly drivable. For instance, I goosed it just a touch and it threw all the belts  so I've got some aligning to do (I found a cool way to actually check it that I wish I'd known about when I was building it). Shifter needs some fine adjusting, something ain't right with the power steering, and it needs a front end alignment... but hey, I'm just a tad bit excited !!!!






Bear


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## 69Goatee (Aug 14, 2009)

SWEET!! It's only been seven years for me, but I can't wait untill the "second" first test drive!! I've got about a year or so left. That car looks laser straight!:cheers


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds great and looks awesome!! :cheers


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Congrats Bear. That car looks and sounds great. You've done an amazing job putting it back together. I applaud your craftsmanship.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

That's GREAT, Bear. Who's the clean cut guy in the driver's seat???  The paint looks excellent and the body panels look straight.....no way to fake that in the open sunshine! I was wondering: is his VOE open or closed? Sounds mean and raspy, like all bad a$$ Pontiacs do.....CONGRATS on a job very well done, all by yourself.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Very Nice, Bear. I was going to say the same thing Jeff. His sig must be from back when???????


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

Congratulations. The fact that you did all of it yourself is a feather in your cap. Also, the look on your face tells the whole story..........Good luck.


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

YOU DONE GOOD PILGRIM.... Happy GTOing


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Damn good looking car! Gotta be feelin' proud....:cheers


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

congrats...closer and closer...enjoy
Bill


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

congrats, its looking great!


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## MaL (Jun 12, 2008)

Hell yeah! Grats on your progress! I'm months away (I hope). I bet your heart is as loud as the engine on these first drives!


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## XCELERATIONRULES (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm guessing replacing the tires will fix lot's of the front end problems.
Nice ride.


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## stracener (Jul 27, 2010)

Bear, that thing is AWESOME !! Great job, looks spectacular and sounds badd @$#. You should be quite proud.

Thanks so much for sharing your pictures, and detailed descriptions of how you did it with us GTOforum board members. At least for my son and I, it has contributed greatly to our ability to revive a defunct '72 GTO. 

The car looks great, I can't hope for my bodywork to come out nearly as smooth as that. I can't believe you did that in your garage!!!

INcredible. Have fun smoothing out whatever "issues" are left. Know there will always be something.

Thanks again for your contributions to the GTO community through these forum posts. It's meant the world to me. Any chance you could post another link to your comprehensive photo archive? I seem to have lost the address but there's a lot of good stuff there. I installed my oil restrictors using that stuff!

Car looks and sounds Great Bear!

Dave


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

OUTSTANDING!!!!.....man that has to get your blood pumping after all that hard work (did mine). Enjoy the fruits of your labor Bear you earned every minute and did that old Poncho proud.....bet its better than you ever envisioned it 25 years ago.....:cheers


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Well done! she looks beautiful. LOVE the VOE/cut outs..!!!! badazzzz


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

Looks and sounds amazing. What's the trick to align the belts?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Incredible !!! That is a huge accomplishment...:cool 

You're one of the few I've seen over the years who didn't go spend a huge chunk of change on wheels and tires while the car was still a dream and then struggle to get it back on the road. Now that it's drivable, you have time to look at options on the car for real and decide what you like best.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mitch, where's YOURS???? You gotta shave the 'stash for your video debut, though----- Bear set a precedence!


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

BEAR, Sounds great VOE open or closed.....at :15 on the video, it looks like you are about to take out your first mail box!!!!!.....Oh, yeah, 1 more thing, "Don't call me "Baby" if you want me to ride withyou....":rofl:arty: CONGRATS,IT'S A BEAUTY!!!!, Eric:cheers :cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

stracener said:


> Any chance you could post another link to your comprehensive photo archive? I seem to have lost the address but there's a lot of good stuff there. I installed my oil restrictors using that stuff!


Sure thing. I'm happy to know you found it helpful. The url is

www.garrettfamily.us/gto



> What's the trick to align the belts?


It's pretty slick. Take a piece of straight aluminum angle stock (I checked it with a machinists straight edge to make sure the piece I got was straight), drill some holes in it and bolt it to the front of your water pump flange/pulley. Put the belts on but leave them loose enough that you can turn the water pump pulley by hand. Rotate the angle around and measure the distance from the metal to the front edge of the belt at all the pulleys. If the distance is the same, you know the pulleys are aligned. If it's not, then you know which accessory/pulley needs to move and by how much. To move an accessory 'forward', use a washer or shim of the needed thickness behind it on the mounting bolts. It's easier to move something forward than it is to move it backward. If you need to move the water pump pulley forward you can shim between the pump flange and the back side of the pulley. Meaure on both the top and bottom edge of each accessory pulley to find out if it's parallel to the water pump. If an accessory needs to be 'tilted' some then you might need to use different shim thicknesses on the top and bottom mounting bolts.




























> "Don't call me "Baby" if you want me to ride withyou...."


You got it, Darlin'....:rofl:



Did my wheels last night...










If I can get some tires mounted soon I just might have to enter this wreck in the ROTM for November :cheers

Thanks for all the kind words everyone, they really do encourage me.

Bear


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:cheers


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Isn't it a blast painting Rallye IIs?! I just did mine a few days ago. They look great. They'll really set off your goat.

What size are your wheels??

Dan


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

jigaway said:


> Isn't it a blast painting Rallye IIs?! I just did mine a few days ago. They look great. They'll really set off your goat.
> 
> What size are your wheels??
> 
> Dan


They're 15's, Dan. I still have the original 14's too but they won't clear the Wilwood brakes.

I'm keeping all the original parts, engine pieces, brakes, factory a/c, brake booster, even the chrome trim for the vinyl top. It'll be theoretically possible to put it back bone stock including paint and trim. I even bought another defroster duct on Ebay have "just in case" because in order to install the aftermarket a/c the defroster duct had to be cut and modified.

I know - I need professional help.... :willy:

Bear


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

Nice. Mine came with the original 14s. they look too small for my taste. I bought some 15x7s for the front and will get some 15x8s for the rear.

Yes, GTOs are a sickness. I need help as well. 

Dan


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

BearGFR said:


> They're 15's, Dan. I still have the original 14's too but they won't clear the Wilwood brakes.
> 
> I'm keeping all the original parts, engine pieces, brakes, factory a/c, brake booster, even the chrome trim for the vinyl top. It'll be theoretically possible to put it back bone stock including paint and trim. I even bought another defroster duct on Ebay have "just in case" because in order to install the aftermarket a/c the defroster duct had to be cut and modified.
> 
> ...


....or you could be a 2nd one that is bone stock, ... just saying. :cheers


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

That's too slick. I've seen the laser tool, but your method seems even more exact.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Ok, so I spent all night and all day today working on it. I replaced the power steering pump with one that's spec'ed for the same vehicle I used to engineer my hydroboost. Of course it uses a different pulley and that meant I had to go through the exercise of aligning it again, and after moving it forward the required 7/16" the long bolt on the bracket wasn't long enough - it was 6" and I needed 6 1/2" --- which of course I couldn't find just anywhere. I finally found an 8" grade 5 at Ace and cut it to the length I needed after also cutting threads up to where I needed. sheesh :willy:

Got it all buttoned up, bled the brakes again, buffed out my center caps and put on my new tires so I could take it out.

It's coming around! Brakes are working good now, and the warning light is acting right. Still something odd on steering to the right but it's much better. I actually felt comfortable enough with it to cruise around town for a bit. At one point I briefly put my foot in it while rolling along at about 40 --- OH MY GOODNESS!! --- this thing has got some cojones for sure.

Rolled the alternator belt again though, and brand new one at that. I've got to figure out what that's about. Maybe I just need to get a deeper groove pulley, if such a thing exists. The belt sure seems ti ride high on this one.

Tomorrow I just may have to shoot some photos and enter this month's ROTM.

Coming along nicely now.... finally!


Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I would have loved to see your expression when you goosed it....probably two wide open eyes and a grin somewhere in there! On the belt issue, that's strange that you're throwing it if your pulleys are aligned. It sounds like you're not really even revving much. If you want to get the belt deeper in the pulleys, you could go to a narrower width belt, from a 15 series to a 13 series.....but you already know that. I've heard of folks having issues with chromed pulleys and belt slippage, but you have std. pulleys...they should not be painted in the grooves, should be bare metal. Can't tell from the photo's if yours are or not.......The car looks like an absolute terror in all black. Congrats again!


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## komodo (Oct 17, 2011)

BearGFR - looks great! Sounds great, too


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I think MAYBE I've got the belt thing solved. The pulleys are for sure aligned now at least. The crank pulley needed to move forward 1/16" and that's done now. Good idea on the 13 series belt. If it happens again I'll try that.

I was going out for another drive today ---- was is the keyword here.  Got about a block and a half from the house -- dead. Nada. Side of the road diagnosis said likely fuel pump problem. Luckily it was close enough to home to push home and back into the garage (oh the shame of it all... :willy

Disconnected the fuel line at the carb and turned it over. Sure enough - nada. It's a new high dollar RobbMc mechanical pump too. His stuff usually doesn't break so I'm -hoping- its the pump and not the eccentric on the cam. I'll find out after I pull the pump I guess.

sigh...

Bear


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## 85_SS (Jul 26, 2010)

Congrats on the progress - looks awesome!


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Sucks about the fuel pump, but congrats for getting it on the road, great progress. Should be a incredible ride when you are done!!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

*ut oh...*

Welllll...... it ain't the fuel pump.  I had a sneaking suspicion just because it's a RobbMc, and his stuff is usually very high quality.

Turns out that it's the eccentric on the front of the cam that drives the fuel pump. I pulled the pump last night and it's fine. After contorting my big behind around so I could sort of see through the pump mounting boss into the timing cover, I saw that the eccentric is still there (whew!) but poking at it with a pointy object reveals that it's _very loose and wobbly_ :willy:

So, tonight I'm going to drain the coolant, pull the balancer and the timing cover, and survey the situation, trying not to drop anything down into the front of the oil pan.

Wish me luck... 

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!! ..........reminds me of the time I did inner CV boots/joints on my 4Runner (in the garage at home on the floor) and, as I was lowering the floor jack after patting myself on the back, noticed an axle circlip sitting on the ground!! I hope it's just a bolt/eccentric indexing issue, and NOT the cam!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!! ..........reminds me of the time I did inner CV boots/joints on my 4Runner (in the garage at home on the floor) and, as I was lowering the floor jack after patting myself on the back, noticed an axle circlip sitting on the ground!! I hope it's just a bolt/eccentric indexing issue, and NOT the cam!


I'm trying to keep a good attitude about it, reminding myself it could have easily been much worse. When it quit, it was like the ignition went dead - nada. It started once right after that and ran for maybe 1 or 2 seconds, in retrospect, just long enough to completely empty the fuel bowl. Of course I'm wracking my brain trying to remember "for sure" if I torqued down that bolt the last time I had it apart, and of course I can't. 

The plan I've cooked up so far is that once the cover's ready to come off, try to lift it straight up just enough to slip a piece of sheet metal or cardboard or something between it and the oil pan so that anything that falls when I pull the cover won't drop into the pan.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

The moment of truth approaches - everything's off except for the last bolt holding on the timing cover. I'm trying to rig some sort of "shield" to keep anything from falling into the pan before I pull the cover.


.... pause.... (cue Jeopardy theme)



arty: arty: arty: :cheers arty: :cheers arty: :cheers


:: big sigh of relief here! :: Nothing fell into the pan, and I could unscrew the cam bolt with my fingers (!) When I pulled off the eccentric, the locating tang fell off in my hand.










I have another one on hand but it's the "other" design where the locating tang goes into the keyway on the cam gear instead of the detent on the face of the cam. Considering, perhaps it would be smarter to pop for a new one even though they're $50.00. I don't want to have to go through this again - ever. I'll give Jim a call tomorrow and get his opinion.

Bear


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Bear, You are one LUCKY dude...aside from having the problem in the first place.....:cheers May I suggest you take a look at Butler Performance web site? Click on camshaft accessories! They have "the good stuff"....Eric


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Turns out I've got one of each on hand. The one that uses the cam keyway, and the one that has a tang that fits into the cam gear face (the better one).

Now my worry is trying to figure out if the lifters are ok. During the process, the cam receeded into the gear face by exactly .040. It's supposed to stick out of the gear face by about .060, so that means it was .100 "too far" into the block at one point. I hear roller lifters don't like running off the edge of the cam lobes because it can cause the rollers to crack. What I don't know at this point, is if .100 was "enough" to allow that to happen or if any of them did. Methinks I'd best go ahead and pull the intake, valley cover, valve covers, rockers etc. and do my best to check all that out before I fire the motor again. With as much green as I've got sunk into this engine already, it'd be pretty dumb to grenade it because of this --- especially when I can send all the lifters back to Comp and have them all rebuilt for about $200. I *really* want to get this thing back together so I can enter the ROTM contest this month, but I need to make sure it's right first.

Bear


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Do you think that much movement could have affected the distributor gear? I am going to my engine builder's shop on Sunday....I will ask his opinion on the lifters and dizzy....he's been building all kinds of Pontiac engines for years. Eric


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Eric Animal said:


> Do you think that much movement could have affected the distributor gear? I am going to my engine builder's shop on Sunday....I will ask his opinion on the lifters and dizzy....he's been building all kinds of Pontiac engines for years. Eric


It shouldn't have. The way those gears are cut on an angle the cam can move back and forth by a lot without changing anything on the mesh. Also, I'm running a bronze gear on it right now that I'm considering a throw-away. After everything has had some time to wear in I'm going to replace it with a composite.

I'm on my way out to pull the intake and everything else needed to allow me to inspect the cam and lifters. I should know something soon. Wish me luck 

Bear


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

GOOD LUCK BEAR ! :willy: Eric


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

arty:arty:arty:arty:arty:

Everything was fine. :cheers

I'm working on re-assembly now. That sucker ain't gonna come loose again...

I've got the front cover, balancer, valve covers, and fuel pump left to install, then I'll change the oil (got a dab of coolant in it when I pulled the front cover), re-fill the coolant, and see if I can't fire it up.

Bear


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

That's how "experts" get to be "experts" I know I've learned alot from _my _mistakes.

Glad to hear you found and solved the problem Bear.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

It's aliiiiiiiiiive!!

:::whew:::

Bear


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Bear, Glad everything was OK! I spoke to my engine guy by phone yesterday afternoon. He assured me that your cam and lifters would be OK. KEY WORD- assured ME. You gotta know for yourself!!!! He also said that you aren't the first one to experience this mishap......:cheers :cheers :cheers Eric


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I took it out late last night for another drive. I'm still being pretty cautious with it until I get some more miles on it, I get the brakes bedded, rear-end broken in, etc.

A few times I "hit it" for a couple of seconds while rolling along at about 20 mph or so --- methinks suspension tuning is going to be important, as are some sticky tires --- even rolling at 20 it flat lit 'em up. 

I'm going to aim the headlights here in a bit, double-check all the systems and see if I can find a place to do a state inspection on it today. It's going to be tough to let some other dude drive it.... :willy:

Thanks for the confirmation Eric - I appreciate that buddy. :cheers

With luck, I'll be able to throw somd glaze on it later today and shoot some photos and video for my ROTM entry.

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

glad it was just a little bump in the road Bear.....traction is the key, the Tempest will flat out roast the 245's of the back from a 20 roll with 4 people in it and a 2:56 rear gear i know that beast of yours is pushing another 60 or so horse with more torque and a higher gear.....arty:. makes me chuckle at the bowtie boys that have to brake toque their cammed out small blocks to make an impression, where we can just roll out of the lot and break them loose with just a goose in the sweet spot of even an auto like mine....still don't have my shift point dialed in and it will give a health bark in second if i hit it just right. Cannot wait to see your pics, rub that sucka out and get them up.....:cheers

Been blessed with an Indian summer here in Michigan i may even go out for a bear run later in it but its getting real close to time to put her up for the winter and start my punch list of things that crept through the woodwork of the build.....will have to pull motor for rear main leak and inspection while i have it out and i still need to wetsand and polish the clear a bit better, that Dynabride sander is looking pretty good right now as hard as that clear dries, will know to sand/polish in the week after spraying next time....lol


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Welp, sorry guys - no photos or video of the black beast tonight. I took it out for a drive....


... and had so much fun that I burned up all the daylight 


Maybe tomorrow, if I get home from work in time. :cheers


EDIT: Ok, so I couldn't resist taking couple of it sitting in the garage.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

lookin great! glad you are getting the bugs worked out.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Ain't nouthin' quite as purdy as a black GTO !:cheers


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> Welp, sorry guys - no photos or video of the black beast tonight. I took it out for a drive....
> 
> 
> ... and had so much fun that I burned up all the daylight
> ...


Pure sexxxxxxx.

That thing just looks badass, like it's waiting to go eat some pavement,.................. and show some punk what Muscle _really _is. 

You've done that car justice Bear :cheers.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> .....will have to pull motor for rear main leak and inspection while i have it out and i still need to wetsand and polish the clear a bit better, that Dynabride sander is looking pretty good right now as hard as that clear dries, will know to sand/polish in the week after spraying next time....lol


I'm beginning to understand all the statements that people have made about these projects never really being done...

Yeah Brian, I don't know what I would have done without that sander - even with it, sanding all the clear took weeks. Doing it by hand would have taken forever and I'd have wound up with forearms like Popeye...:rofl:

Funny about the punch list too - I'm working on one of those. I need to readjust the up-limit stop on the passenger side rear window so that it doesn't roll up quite as far. It's a nit of a job, especially considering I built this whole dang car from the ground up, but to get to it the side interior panel has to come back off and for that to come off the back seats have to come back out... and that's making me not want to mess with it :rofl:


--AND--

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. I really do appreciate the encouragement and the compliments. It still hasn't sunk in yet completely that it's DONE. I wonder how long it's going to take before I'll be able to drive it without worrying something bad's about to happen to it?


Bear


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## jigaway (Jul 2, 2011)

absolutely magnificent.. Well done. Love the 255s


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

LOL Bear....YEARS!!!! and like you said they are never REALLY done, mine has not seen a parking lot yet unless it has a single space on the side that no one can park next to it on either side, only in front or back (except at car shows).....don't want to think what i would do if i came out and found or worse yet seen someone carelessly throw their door at it.....


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## Beef 66 (Sep 14, 2011)

Congratulations! The car looks fantastic and from the video sounded pretty good too.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Not sure why you think it needs more polish........if it gets any shinier, it will make it's own light...:cool The wheels and tires really completed the look...

One teensy-weensy little item you may want to put on the "list" is the tail pipes. Not trying to be critical here, but they need to be tucked up behind the q-panels so the tips point straight back like this...

http://ultimategto.com/1969/69h_00072_3.jpg


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Too Many Projects said:


> Not sure why you think it needs more polish........if it gets any shinier, it will make it's own light...:cool The wheels and tires really completed the look...
> 
> One teensy-weensy little item you may want to put on the "list" is the tail pipes. Not trying to be critical here, but they need to be tucked up behind the q-panels so the tips point straight back like this...
> 
> http://ultimategto.com/1969/69h_00072_3.jpg


Thanks for the kind words... Yeah, I know about the exhaust tips. Problem is, the Pypes tailpipes don't have any bend to them at all - they come straight back after going over the axle. I'd have to pull them and bend them some to get that angle 'perfect'. I might do that later, but for now I'm still enjoying and marvelling at being able to say "GTO" and "done" in the same sentence without having to include any negatives or references to future dates arty:

Oh, and I just entered the ROTM for this month, in my typical long-winded style 

Bear


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I hear ya on the tail pipes. Probably need to let a good shop bend them right. I have Pypes on my '67 Camaro and the tail pipes aren't close to original, like they think. Took me 6 hours of "tweaking" to get them to stop rattling on the quarters, springs, frame and to clear the tires....


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