# Back to install new motor



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Been a while since i have been around, been dealing with the myriad of problems caused by a 30' fall 3 years ago. "luckily" i am still on my feet and up until last spring me and the better half had been enjoying the Tempest car shows, cruises, long country drives to see the sunset. 

Fast forward to last spring, i had a re-hab appt. on a beautiful early spring day so i came home and grabbed the Tempest thinking i could hit Autozone and grab a set of plugs and some rotella for a tune up, had no worries as i keep her in insulated barn over winter and keep battery tender on with a start and warm up every few weeks. Stopped and filled her up with a top off of 5 gallons of torco race gas. As im turning right at a 25 roll just getting to my appointment and goose it gently it backfires and I see "steam" coming out the front and the engine dies. I wheel it into the edge of the gas station and get out to see the paint on my hood scoop boiling. i open the hood and flames singe my eyebrows, carbs on fire, luckily i had a damp towel in the backseat which i quickly grabbed and covered the carb after getting the melted air cleaner off. Onsite evaluation, Paint hood inside and out with bodywork, stip and paint intake, new carb(s), new 8mm wires, new air cleaner and filament, clean complete engine compartment and firewall. Sometimes you gotta laugh or you'll cry!!

Slow forward, car in shop for two months, worked out a deal to get the hood top and deck sprayed so it wold blend good , have car towed back and install new manifold and a dual quad manifold with two Quickfuel 600 carbs, squirt of gas and a few pumps and fires right up. Sitting in the drivers seat sounded good for a fresh start without any tuning, wife was out front watching for leaks. I get out as it reaches an idle and walk around to the sound of a sharp rapping on the passenger front of the lower end.....SHUT HER DOWN!!!

Pull the motor and up to the speed shop it goes, two shot bearings, timing gear shot ( while it was out had it all gone through with line bore, crank balance and polish, cyl. hone, rings, already had full roller set-up, and forged internals).

Motor is ready, I am thinking i am going to have it broken in on a motor dyno, is 500.00 fair? Thinking its worth it so i only have to put the motor back in once. as i am a little limited on the creeper these days although it came out suprisingly easy with a helper and its bagged and tagged for re-install and still blocked in place.

Well just wanted to relate my trials and tribulations, this place was an integral part in me building the car, and i am sure i will need your infinite wisdom in getting it back up and running as the memory is not what it used to be.

Hey BearGFR see you are doing yours too, remember we built at the same time, what happened with yours??


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## Joe'sToy (Mar 9, 2012)

Wow! So sorry to hear this, I have always loved your ride and the way you did it. Hopefully this will be the fix for a long time, and many miles of Pontiac fun.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh man, hate to hear this, Luckily you and no one else got hurt. Hope the problem causing fire is resolved and engine will run fine for years. To me, $500 sounds about average for an engine dyno run (not chassis dyno, that should be cheaper). Anyway, best of luck!!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks for the replies, I'll keep this post updated and get some vids when i get the dual quad motor up and running. I also will be replacing the headers with the RA reproduction exhaust manifolds and "X" pipe while im down there. Unfortunately the heat is down in my shop and our Michigan weather is still a little chilly for my weary bones to be crawling on the concrete, so i am still a few weeks out on installation. if i get the dyno done ill post pics and vid if i can be there for it.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

OK, finally done packing up carbs and RA exhaust to take up to the machine shop. Should be going on the Dyno for run and tune next week, cannot wait to get it back in the car with the MotorCity weather starting to warm up.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

You're back!!!!!!!!!  Glad to see you!! Man, so sorry about the fire and subsequent problem --- that generates significant vacuum. I'm in the middle of putting mine back together too, taking my sweet time about it and also addressing some leftover issues from MY engine fire a few years back. 

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks Bear, funny our builds and re-builds have ran parallel. Dropped the remaining parts up at the speed shop today. hopefully they will get to run it on Dyno this week. I AM DYING TO GET MY BABY BACK ON THE ROAD!!! been over a year now since i have driven it, always give a thumbs up when i see a nice classic on the road but anymore its hard not to cuss because mine is stuck in a barn under a cover . will update as soon as i get the run sheet a.nd hopefully video of the run-in


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Well as usual everything takes 4 times as long as you think it will. That said the new motor is on the Dyno with a few tuning pulls under its belt. I am going up there first thing in AM to watch the computer pulls. 

455, .040 over,Forged H rods and crank, 6X heads ported for pump gas, new valves , roller custom grind cam and lifters, RA4 reproduction 2.25 exhaust manifolds, Offy dual quad intake with twin 600 Demon carbs.

any guesses on HP/TQ?


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## tiretread (Sep 28, 2015)

Sorry to hear about the incident. Makes me want to get that halogen fire extinguisher in my car sooner rather than later. 

At least you are going to get a new motor out of it! Good luck!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

instg8ter said:


> well as usual everything takes 4 times as long as you think it will. That said the new motor is on the dyno with a few tuning pulls under its belt. I am going up there first thing in am to watch the computer pulls.
> 
> 455, .040 over,forged h rods and crank, 6x heads ported for pump gas, new valves , roller custom grind cam and lifters, ra4 reproduction 2.25 exhaust manifolds, offy dual quad intake with twin 600 demon carbs.
> 
> Any guesses on hp/tq?



472hp & 537tq


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> ...roller custom grind cam and lifters ,,,
> any guesses on HP/TQ?


Making it interesting by not sharing the cam details, huh?  ok.... ummm.. 485 ho / 540 lb ft


Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

a bit less HP (402) than i was expecting but the torque is straight line above 400 from 2500 RPM to redline topping at 444. Pulled so hard it broke one of the motor mounts, chinese crap. NPD has in stock down the street.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Instg8ter said:


> a bit less HP (402) than i was expecting but the torque is straight line above 400 from 2500 RPM to redline topping at 444. Pulled so hard it broke one of the motor mounts, chinese crap. NPD has in stock down the street.


Less than I expected as well. Based my guess on the roller cam, just as Bear did. Roller cams typically put out more HP than a flat tappet cam.

I will bet there is more HP hidden in that engine. I would put a pair of 1" spacers under the carbs just to see what it'll jump up to. :thumbsup:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Exactly what my motor guy said Jim, ordered them today when i picked it up. Cam was specked 8 years ago to make around 425 with iron 6X, heads and 9.5 comp for pump gas running a 750 on dual plane manifold. Car is a cruiser so im not hung up on HP ran great for 6 years before fire, and got around 15 MPG. Dyno pull Had nice smooth idle, no stumbles, and after the initial torque twist when he punched it ran dead smooth up to 5000 RPM. He said that the risers and bigger jets would squeeze some more out of it and is going to tune it when i get it back together.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Instg8ter said:


> Exactly what my motor guy said Jim, ordered them today when i picked it up. Cam was specked 8 years ago to make around 425 with iron 6X, heads and 9.5 comp for pump gas running a 750 on dual plane manifold. Car is a cruiser so im not hung up on HP ran great for 6 years before fire, and got around 15 MPG. Dyno pull Had nice smooth idle, no stumbles, and after the initial torque twist when he punched it ran dead smooth up to 5000 RPM. He said that the risers and bigger jets would squeeze some more out of it and is going to tune it when i get it back together.



Perfect. Sounds like you have a guy who knows what he is doing. :thumbsup:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

can you drop the motor with RA exhaust manifolds mounted (without down pipes of course) on a 66'???


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Back in the saddle again, well, almost. Called a rain day at work and with the cooler weather we were able to tackle getting the motor back in its cradle. Day went good until we got to the jet coated RA Manifolds this afternoon, 2 bolts took 2 hours, but persistence paid off and got them on without stripping anything. only things left underneath are starter, oil filter housing, torque converter bolts and cut and attach the new down pipes to my existing exhaust. as far as the top end i got all my belts and pulleys on and the dreaded starter wire heat shield (still has the asbestos packing), one of the Pain in the ass bolts. 

Hopefully this weekend i will be able to get lower stuff done, HEI in and start putting the carbs, fuel log and throttle linkage on.:grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

All back together , made fuel log with inline guage with AN and stainless, dual gas filters, clutch fan with shroud properly fitted half on fan blades, all fitting double shecked for torque. Ifilling with fluids in the morning and firing her back up. I will fine tune with the cheap chrome valve covers before putting on my good painted ones back on then call all hands on deck to get the hood back on.

Heres a little touch i did on the scoop, after all it's NOTAGTO! so i don't have to conform


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks good. Is that progressive linkage? Can't really tell in the photo.

Also would have removed the choke (or clocked it wide open against the choke spring) from the secondary carb as it is really not needed if using progressive linkage. Also screw in the idle mixture screws on the secondary carb as they too are not needed if using progressive linkage. The cars that came with factory 2 x 4's used a secondary carb with no choke and no idle circuit like the outboard carbs on the tri-power. 

If you have both carbs tied together, and using the idle mixtures screws on both carbs - you are going to have a gas guzzler on your hands and may run rich idling and at low speeds, which means regularly "blowing out the carbon" so the engine does not load up and runs poorly. Does "carbon" build up anymore with ethanol gas? Hmmmm.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

it is not set for sequential, but it can be if i flip it over. right now chokes are set full open. made bracket to use factory cable so if i want to go sequential i will have to fit a Lokar throttle cable in. I have a neighbor that builds Offshore race boats that is coming down to help set the carbs up. Had a nice idle at 800 on the dyno, they did close off idle to second carb. Had to go with Demons for space but they remind me of small Quadrajets as they have smalleer front bores for idle and cruise and secondaries are open in the middle to one larger "butterfly" with larger ports. hoping to fire it today



PontiacJim said:


> Looks good. Is that progressive linkage? Can't really tell in the photo.
> 
> Also would have removed the choke (or clocked it wide open against the choke spring) from the secondary carb as it is really not needed if using progressive linkage. Also screw in the idle mixture screws on the secondary carb as they too are not needed if using progressive linkage. The cars that came with factory 2 x 4's used a secondary carb with no choke and no idle circuit like the outboard carbs on the tri-power.
> 
> If you have both carbs tied together, and using the idle mixtures screws on both carbs - you are going to have a gas guzzler on your hands and may run rich idling and at low speeds, which means regularly "blowing out the carbon" so the engine does not load up and runs poorly. Does "carbon" build up anymore with ethanol gas? Hmmmm.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

That there is right purty... 

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

OK so the weather has cooled down to the point that gas is not boiling this week and with the holiday i got a little time to play with the sequential set-up. First of all set my timing as close to the specs on Lars informative tuning post. then re-set everything back to factory on the carbs without linkage attached and tuned both to get highest vacuum on smooth idle at around 850 RPM/750 in gear auto. Spent some time shaking it down on the road and was stumbling off any quick start and running a bit rough in low cruise but once the air got flowing cruised smooth on just the primaries at around 1800 Rpm. Went out this morning and figured i would re-run the plug wires a little neater, found two with cuts, replaced them all with a new set MSD and it woke her up. nice smooth idle in gear, noticed immediatly the initial stumble was gone going thru the sub just tweaking it in first and the front end would rise. Hit the main road and eased into it as soon as the primary started to get into the front barrels of the secondary (about 1/4 butterfly sequential now)dropped it as soon as i felt the boost come in and she left 20' of BF goodrich on the ground, wife looked over and said "think you found its happy spot". just to be sure fired it off at a 20 roll and it ate what was left of first gear and left more than a bark on the shift to second. Still a little bit of tweaking to go to get the secondaries coming in sequence just right but i'm a happy camper, The Demons come on just like a quadrajet with the big "goggle" rear butterflies, and from what i can tell i am still getting good gas mileage if i stay on the much smaller fronts at cruising speeds. Had it up around 4500 and it was still pulling like a mule with no throttle end in sight. Heres a quick vid of it start and run before putting it away., sorry site will not accept .MOV file ill have to try and change it when i am not beat...night all


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

She's all freshened up and ready for the hood, then Telegraph, Michigan Ave and Woodward. Wide Track drive is where the Pontiac club has its parking usualy for the Dream Cruise and its a double stp so its a great place to take pictures
Now I Just need to get a few guys together that can actually lift their arms above their heads (getting old sucks!) to help me get the hood lined up and fit the ram air. I'm thinking a slump of clay or plumbers putty on each carb hat to check inner clearances


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Looking great!

Bear


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## cij911 (Oct 25, 2017)

Instg8ter said:


> She's all freshened up and ready for the hood, then Telegraph, Michigan Ave and Woodward. Wide Track drive is where the Pontiac club has its parking usualy for the Dream Cruise and its a double stp so its a great place to take pictures
> Now I Just need to get a few guys together that can actually lift their arms above their heads (getting old sucks!) to help me get the hood lined up and fit the ram air. I'm thinking a slump of clay or plumbers putty on each carb hat to check inner clearances


Looks great - what size wheels and tires are you running ? Thanks!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks Bear, new motors pulling like a mule, think there's lots more in it than it ran on the dyno. will put rubber down in first and second just letting the auto shift. I am avoiding winding it up past 4500 and have not taken over with the slap stick yet until i get some good miles under the belt. Had a bunch of little gremlins to figure out but seems to be in the sweet spot now. time to fine tune the secondaries so they come in series after my primaries. Im close but i'm betting when the hood goes on they will need to be tweaked to the air flow.

How can i post a .MOV file here, says its not a supported extension? I have start up and running video ive been trying to post.

I'm running billet specialties 15x9 wheels, wish they had a little more inward offset but only rub is cutting hard out of parking spots.
tires are 255/50 back and 245/60 front to give it a little rake, have to check.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Sorry 245/60 /15 back and 235/60 /15 front, have the moog wagon springs in back with air bags and stock front end with drilled and slotted disc conversion and stainless lines. Rides like a caddy until you start getting into it then it hugs the road nice for a 3500 lb 14' long car and stops with Zero fade and good feel.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Got the hood on today so i now have fully functional RA Dual Quad 462 W/2.5" RA Resto exh manifolds (sounds great , less racket than the headers. I took some liberties with the scoop, but i like the shiny stuff and sets off the rest of the brightwork. Ended up with over 2" hood clearance on both carb hats.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Final touches are done. Put back on the painted valve covers, organized all wires and hoses neat and simple, and the valve covers make it look more stock and still clear the 9" brake booster so no more annoying tin tap on the drivers side, 1/4" spacer and thick gasket should give me just enough rocker clearance, another gremlin i found while working it all out. Heres a final bit of motor porn....


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Very nice!
Bear


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