# Question for the drag race guys



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

My car is a '66 Le Mans with UMI adjustable rear uppers, UMI roto joint lowers, frame braces and a rear hotchkis 2202R 1" sway bar mounted between the lower control arms. 1" hotchkis lowering coils front and rear. 
Im going to get a fresh time slip from Norwalk this weekend and wondered how to rid of some of my wheel hop. Should I remove the rear sway bar to let the suspension move or leave it on? My 60' really sucks and it wheel hops pretty hard out of the hole. I am running street tires at 15psi but the track is a pro NHRA surface so its my stiff suspension making me not hook. Sway bar or not to sway bar?!? ( Rear)


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

What kind of shocks? Have you adjusted the instant center on the car and do you know where that is?

Do you still have the stock lower control arms?? Have they at least been boxed? Stock bushings? Lots of variables here but I wouldn't say that your sway bar is causing the wheel hop.


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Drag bags in the rear springs cured my wheel hop. Also, if you have street tires when you do the burnout, steer clear of the water, drive around it and do a dry burnout.


----------



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

UMI lowers with roto joints on the frame end and poly on the other. Stock style gas shocks. No clue about the instant center. Only used my adjustable uppers to correct my pinion angle from a shortened drive shaft.


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Chevrolet Chevelle Rear Suspension Tips & Parts - Chevy High Performance

+1 on the drag bags too, they will allow you to preload the suspension so the car will launch straight.


----------



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

Rukee said:


> Drag bags in the rear springs cured my wheel hop. Also, if you have street tires when you do the burnout, steer clear of the water, drive around it and do a dry burnout.


I go to the track like once or twice a year max so im not going to spend loot on hooking up for drag racing. Good tip on driving around the water box though ill try that for sure, it makes sense


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Wheel hop is a bad thing. It will break things. Do I understand that you don't plan on doing any stop light blasts from a dead stop while cruisin' or a little street accelerating fun when some CHEVY or FORD or MOPAR pulls along side and blips his throttle at you? Do I understand that the ONLY time you really open your car up is a couple times at the track?........ya, right, and I have a 1969 Ram Air V I want to sell you for $1.:biggrin2:

You need to address the wheel hop. Not only does it beat things to death, you are eventually going to break something, and its always at the worst time in the worst weather in the middle of nowhere and the closest shop is 200 miles away and he says "he ain't never worked on a Pontiac before.":yesnod:

You want to add some no-hop bars. Wheel hop is kinda a given with coil spring suspensions and big HP and sticky/wide tires. These no-hop bars changes the geometry that ALKY mentioned with "instant center." And he also mentioned the shocks, an often overlooked piece of the traction puzzle.

Check out this website. Dick Miller is a big Oldsmobile guy, but many of his products are meant for the A-body cars. Read page 2 of this PDF beginning with the TECH TIP. This will give you some ideas and he has the no-hop bars http://www.dickmillerracing.com/images/Suspension_Systems.pdf 

His website has an excellent book on suspensions and I highly recommend it to everyone who wants to get their car to hook-up. Ton of info, pictures, & diagrams that explains the suspension types (not just coil suspensions) so you can understand what they are about, how they work, and how to cure your suspension woes. I own a copy, it is informative.:thumbsup: Oldsmobile experts, Dick Miller Racing Inc. Science Hill, KY Home

That said, the '65 Impala I had installed a slightly built 409/425HP factory engine in it and it had real bad wheelhop. I had a posi with I believe 3.08's, 4-speed, and some wide 50's out back. What I learned was that I was dumping the clutch at too high an RPM trying to make a fast/hard launch. The engine was up in its lower powerband with a ton of torque and when I let out the clutch, those tires took all the torque, but the car was a lot of weight to get moving quickly, and the tires would bite and then the wheel hop would bounce like a frantic basket ball.

I began to experiment with the RPM's and got them to a low RPM point (let's say 1800 RPM as I don't recall exactly), the rear tires would break loose and spin one revolution (I assume preloading the suspension and maybe getting the car moving forward), and then I would nail the gas to the floor and it would take off -no wheel hop. I could do this every time as I got a feel for the car and the engine's sound of the RPM's. If you go to low on your RPM's, the car will obviously stall when you dump the clutch. If this happens, go a couple hundred more and keep experimenting until you find that RPM that best suits your combo. You can also slip your clutch which is another technique, but this wears it out. Try reducing your RPM's on launch to see if it will help.:smile2:


----------



## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

I raced my original '69 RA3 GTO for many years, with several different engine/trans combos. I'll have to agree with the guys who said they used air bags. I put 'em in both sides, but put more air in the right side to preload it.

Also, on real bad tracks, I added a lot of weight in the trunk. Since you will be running hard street tires, you may wanna do the same. Air bags and trunk weight are the cheapest traction aids I can think of for hard tires.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/air-60744/applications/make/pontiac


----------



## maktope (May 22, 2013)

From not fixing wheel hop properly


----------



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

Thanks for all the great advice i will read those articles for sure. 
I had a fun day at the track and here is what came of it.. Best pass was 13.24 @ just over 112mph. That trap speed is a solid mid-low 12 second pass on slicks and hooking but i had to ease out of the hole to avoid the dreaded hop but mostly avoiding spinning the tires too. Id launch around 1800 shift out of first at 4000 then ease into second and then i could nail it. My brothers leaf sprung nova went 11.95 @ 110mph. I def have an issue here I need to resolve.


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Not bad numbers at all. :cheers


----------



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

oldskool said:


> I raced my original '69 RA3 GTO for many years, with several different engine/trans combos. I'll have to agree with the guys who said they used air bags. I put 'em in both sides, but put more air in the right side to preload it.
> 
> Also, on real bad tracks, I added a lot of weight in the trunk. Since you will be running hard street tires, you may wanna do the same. Air bags and trunk weight are the cheapest traction aids I can think of for hard tires.
> 
> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/air-60744/applications/make/pontiac


The pic of you bolting the stickies on that goat is priceless. You could frame that and sell it as art. Awesome vintage pic!


----------



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

Rukee said:


> Not bad numbers at all. :cheers


Thanks Rukee!! I was very happy with the trap speed considering the car is around 3650lbs still. My mph was better than a '15 stingray vette! He ran about 108 and a newer shelby gt500 was running around 105. That made me smile let me tell you!


----------



## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Bensjammin66 said:


> The pic of you bolting the stickies on that goat is priceless.


Actually, that pic was taken during the 1973 season. Slicks and cheater slicks were illegal. There were no DOT, street legal drag tires. Although M&H made slicks, they also sold hard rubber street tires, which is what these were.

At the time, they were the widest street legal tires I could find. And, since they had M&H on 'em, they LOOKED more like race tires than most anything else. With the 4-speed and 3.90 gears, I had to leave at 3000rpm, but go to WOT just before the tires stopped spinning. If I floored it too quick, it would blow the tires off. And if I waited too long, it would bog. 

My best pass with those tires was 13.95. Completely original '69 RA3, with just over 60,000 street miles. The only thing ever done to the engine was to replace the original timing set, which had plastic cam gear teeth. They were guaranteed to strip by 50,000 miles--A complete engineering blunder.

For 1974, NHRA made some special DOT legal tires, legal for Stockers. They were just like slicks, but had some very small grooves. I'll show a pic of one of these below. Because of the sticky tires, I swapped the light alum flywheel for a heavier steel flywheel and stronger Hayes clutch. My Goat instantly dropped 1/2 sec. I could pop the clutch at 3500rpm and nail it--very little spin, and a lot more fun. 

Another thing about that pic. In '73 I had no trailer or floor jack. I pulled the car to the track(about 50 miles) with a '68 Caddy and a tow bar. And I think I'd borrowed that scissor jack from my dad. Ah, humble beginnings.

But for '74 I bought a used homemade trailer, made with mobile home axles. And I borrowed my dad's '74 1/2 ton Ford pickup to pull it. Hey, that was better. But even with my low budget operation, Pontiac power was there to make up for my lack of funds and know how. I won quite a few races those 2 years. 

AND, if you think that pic is good, check out this last pic. That's me changing points in TJ's race-turned-street Bird. Ain't it a booty ? I mean beauty. :smilielol:


----------



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

Great stuff Oldskool. I love hearing stories from the past days of racing like that. Those days and cars made racing what it is today! And youre right, another great pic!


----------

