# Newbie asking the impossible...



## Big Iron 465 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hello all...a newbie here from Oregon. I have located a decent 1970 GTO project car that has been sitting in one spot for at least 10 years without moving. I've talked to the guy a couple of times about selling and he insists he doesn't want to sell, that he intends to fix it up for his daughter, etc. He hasn't given me the opportunity to look under the hood so I don't know what engine it has or other accessories that might have some value.

It doesn't appear to have any severe rust though I'm banking the floorpans and trunk will have a fair amount of cancer since the back seat is filled with old newspapers and phone books just soaking up the moisture. It does have one significant dent on the passenger side quarter panel, about the size of a basketball; it looks like it may have been a pole that got it.

I'm wondering what a fair cash offer might be for such a car. I want to go to him with a fist full of Benjamin Franklins, he might let it go if he sees cash ready to change hands, I don't know. But I want to give it a go...

I tried inserting a photo but I keep getting a scripting error message so the photo should be attached.


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

If he is like most people that have good intentions. It will rust to the ground before he ever seriously attempts anything.


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## 389tripower65GTO (Feb 2, 2012)

Facn8 is dead on, odds are he will let it rot.
Check out this site, that's dedicated to more like him:
pg47Bowties
Warning: it's depressing as hell.
There are Goats out there with real sellers, you just have to be 
patient and diligent in your search.
Best of luck.


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## 389tripower65GTO (Feb 2, 2012)

At the same time, I think you should try to get it,
if you think it's worthwhile.
I hope I'm wrong about this guy.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree most people that let a car sink in the ground and still have visions of restoring it are delusional and have an over inflated sense of the value of what they have, and absolutely no idea of the time and money they will have to put into it in a restoration. I would be worried about the frame on that car too as it has sunk nearly too it, so to place a value on it without giving it a once over is a crap shoot at best. I have a feeling that an honest offer would be insulting to him based on the above.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Is his daughter hot, and are you a chopper pilot.......chicks love chopper pilots! :cheers:lol::rofl: Eric


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

find a different car, build it, then drive by and do a fat burnout if front of him, then take his daughter out


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## Big Iron 465 (Sep 21, 2010)

LOL...I've NEVER seen his daughter! This car sits two houses down from my in-laws place and I've seen it sitting there for at least 10 years that I can positively recall and I'm pretty sure quite a bit longer.

I fear you're all right...he'll probably sit on it until it's just a shell. It was his father's car...strike one...he's proud to say it's "numbers matching" (important to a collector but not to me, I just want a hard driver) and how valuable that is...strike two...and I haven't figured out strike three yet, but I know it's there.

I was pondering using $1500 as a starting point and willing to negotiate but I have zero doubt that Instg8ter is correct, no matter what I offer him under probably $12-15K he will consider insulting. What I don't know is what a fair value really is...as much as I can find on the interweb, a parts/project car may go for about $4K. That's what I was hoping you folks could confirm or deny...


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

just so you have an idea, your looking at 20K+ to restore a car like that if you can do all the work yourself, if not add on another 10-15 for labor plus initial cost of the car.


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## Original Goat (Apr 4, 2012)

I finally got around to working on my '67 after it sat in my yard, barn, field since '81. And a number of people asked to buy it. I used to have a '57 convertible Starchief and sold that and have regretted it ever since. Ergo I kept the Goat. Now its time.


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## Big Iron 465 (Sep 21, 2010)

Instg8ter, I'll be doing all the work myself. I grew up in a shop and cut my teeth doing this sort of thing before going into the Marine Corps. My first car was a '55 Chevy that my father and I built from a burned out body shell and we did everything except the interior. I married an expert seamstress, I'll be doing the interior myself with her guidance.

Once I went into the Corps, all this sort of thing ceased...no time or place. I retired a few years back and now want to get started again. I have no idea of GTO values, I grew up in a die hard Chevy household, God rest my father's soul. I have a broader range of auto appreciation these days...

Mr. Goat, funny you should mention a '57 Star Chief. The other car I pursued for my project was a '55 Chieftain. It too, has been sitting a couple of mile from my house in the same spot without moving for over 15 years that I can be sure of. It's much farther down the path of ruin than this GTO, unfortunately. The owner also told me he'd NEVER sell and was very rude about doing so.

The problem I have is that I've been unemployed for the last 40 months...can't seem to even buy an interview. So, my initial buy-in cost has to be kept to a minimum. That's why I was asking about the car's value and starting at such a rediculously low cash offer, I don't have much to work with. All my discussions with the GTO's owner have never involved a price...I keep hoping that actually seeing $100 bills in hand might give him pause to sell...


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I see $1500 as about a maximum value for this car as it sits. As stated, It will take a huge cash infusion to bring it back, much more than the value of the car will be. And, as stated, you are dealing with a delusional car owner who thinks that the longer the car rots into the ground, the more it has to be worth. Not so. Find a better car for less, IMO. I don't even waste my time with these foolish, misguided people anymore.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Original Goat said:


> I finally got around to working on my '67 after it sat in my yard, barn, field since '81. And a number of people asked to buy it. I used to have a '57 convertible Starchief and sold that and have regretted it ever since. Ergo I kept the Goat. Now its time.


Thats why i said "Most" OG....i have buds that have projects sitting out back that they will get around to including one with a 69' GTO (possible Judge) in pieces i keep tying to pry out of his hands....i just find it sacrilegious that he Wants to paint it new camaro green with SS stripes and put a 454 in it...

Glad your bringing it back to it's former glory, thats what it's all about...:cheers

As for the OP, i was gonna say 1000.00 without being able to eyeball it, but like i said i would insult the non seller...

If you need a cheaper starting point look for Tempests and LeMans, got mine 99.9% intact, all original metal rust free with a seized 326 had been sitting in a car port for 35 years for 2500.00 and by the time you re-do everything it's GTO spec+. even doing all the work on a GTO yourself you will be lucky to break even on value these days.


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## Big Iron 465 (Sep 21, 2010)

I hear you on the value...but I'm one of those crazy guys that doesn't pay attention to that, the only value it has is how much I value it to drive. Case in point, I have an '02 Indian Chief...if you're familiar with the quality debacle they were. But it's a damn nice bike to ride so after the engine blew, I started a ground up rebuild tossing all the sh** quality components and replacing with those of industry standard. Have many thou more in it than I could ever sell it for but I sure enjoy the hell out of riding it!! So, it was worth every penny to me...same will go for this car. Tempest might be the way to go and can rebadge to be a GTO clone...hadn't thought of that idea!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

then welcome to the reservation for Crazy Guys....:cheers. I hear ya, the Tempest is priceless to me as i did it all myself after 20 years of being away from old cars raising a family. Keeping an eye out for a 69-72' firebird for my next one, machinist thats building my stroker for the Tempest just informed me he had a 69' 400 bird from AZ, he might want to part with....gonna press him more when i go get my motor.


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## Big Iron 465 (Sep 21, 2010)

There are those that would say that I've been a permanent resident of the looney bin for a long, long time...


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

save yourself a ton of time and $$$, find a solid car. The extra $$ you pay upfront for a solid car will save you 10x that amount when you are building it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I'll chime in as a fellow denizen of the bin of looneys. Everyone who says you'll spend way more than it will ever sell for, is correct. My own 69 GTO is a machine that I've got receipts totalling --- well, let's just say approximately triple what anyone one in their right mind would give me for it. However, I've got a deep emotional connection with this particular car and I am not in the least interested in anyone's assessment of value other than my own, and it ain't for sale anyway.

As long as you understand what you're getting into, and as long as you're ok with that, then let the games and the financial hemhorraging begin 

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

If your in it for the driving experience your looking in the right place.....once you drive a high powered high torque Pontiac on the street your hooked for life, i imagine just like the other ***** you have....i will keep an eye out for solid cars in your area.


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## Big Iron 465 (Sep 21, 2010)

Question for youz guys...where does one go to look for GTOs-Tempests-Le Mans? I've done the typical Craigslist and other web searches and don't come up for doodly-squat for much of anything resembling a project car. The couple I have seen are asking what I'd consider exhorbitant prices for what the vehicles are...several thousand dollars for a car that has many visible rusted through panels, missing interior, etc. Maybe that's the going rate, I don't know.

I went to take a new close-up look at the '70 GTO by my in-laws place. It has deteriorated quite a bit from what it was the last time I looked at it a couple of years ago. The guy wasn't at home to talk to, but I'm not sure I'd give him much more than a grand for it. But...going by the what little I've seen on the web, this car might be worth $4-5K, I don't know...


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## bayou4us (Nov 27, 2011)

When you are on Graigs List try typing in just "Pontiac". Thats how I found mine. You just might have to drive a good ways to get one though. I found mine 800 miles away. Bought a 67 Lemans and a 80 Corvette for 4500. Both cars in decent shape to be redone. I had a 70 GTO when I was 18, so I had the fever for another one for along time. Good luck!!:seeya:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i use "Craigslist ultimate" and set it up on my I-phone to update daily for my searches in a search area i would be willing to drive to 2-300 miles or so. Best deals on Craigslist are lucky to last a day, so you need to be willing to call and go ASAP. Just picked up siding jacks and picks for my construction company, retailed for over 7000.00 got set used once for 3500.00, called 10 minutes after he posted and he had already had three calls. Got my Tempest off CL in Idaho and paid 800.00 to ship it back to Michigan just because of the clean original body, had an uncle close to Boise who went and took detailed pics and checked it out for me. Other deals i have gotten...front bumper 100.00 slight chrome flaking at bottom but perfect otherwise. chevy chevelle 12 bolt 3:55 rear end with new springs and brakes 425.00, E-bay is better for parts than cars IMO, but i pretty much built the Tempest with parts deals i found there.


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## howthenotesbend (Apr 17, 2012)

it looks like theres a decent amount of trim, so thats nice. hope it all works out for you!


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

Buy it. Offer him a couple grand and see what he says.


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