# Clutch recommendations 66 3 speed manual



## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

389 is rebuilt and ready to go in the car . 66 goat with 3 speed "Dearborn toploader "( one I've never heard of till coming around here)
Now doing some overdue thinking about clutch . I've got a flywheel and throwout and plate and clutch here that came with the car (which was running and driving when I bought it in 07) photos attached . 
Any opinions whether I should just run with what I got here?
Hows it look?
Any opinions on "center force " clutches ?


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

You don't need anything beyond a good quality, stock type clutch kit. It'll come with a new pressure plate , disc & bearing. Also, check the condition of your pilot busing in the end of the crank and have your flywheel ground and then reassemble.


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

Duff said:


> You don't need anything beyond a good quality, stock type clutch kit. It'll come with a new pressure plate , disc & bearing. Also, check the condition of your pilot busing in the end of the crank and have your flywheel ground and then reassemble.


Hey thanks, any recommendations 9n brands and or vendors ?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

For a stock clutch, LUK is a well thought of.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

O52 said:


> For a stock clutch, LUK is a well thought of.


This. Just replace the plastic throw-out bearing with a metal one, and make SURE you install the clips on the clutch fork onto the bearing the correct way. Many flub this (it isn't obvious) and take out their throw-out bearings. Have installed many LUK's (made by Sachs) over the years and they have light pedal effort, butter-smooth engagement, and give no problems. That said, I recently installed a Zoom kit in my '61 Corvette, which was advertised as a street/performance clutch. It was listed at $216 for the kit at Jegs and Summit, but I got it from Rock Auto for $108. Been in there 3 years and I am delighted with it. Light pedal, superior clamping, no chatter. 
I installed a McCleod street/strip 3400LB red clutch in my '65 GTO in 1984 and it's still there working perfectly....but the pedal effort is oppressive. Super hard. But, it doesn't slip or chatter. So it is staying put. 
Fun Fact: the Dearborn 3 speed in your GTO made by Ford is substantially stronger than a Muncie 4 speed. They don't grenade.


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

O52 said:


> For a stock clutch, LUK is a well thought of.


Hey thanks alot .
I was actually headed in that direction but 8m looking at the clutch that came out of the car and it looks like it's got 50 miles on it .
Its a valeo which from what I understand from poking around on the internet is a good oem replacement clutch . Yeah ??


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> This. Just replace the plastic throw-out bearing with a metal one, and make SURE you install the clips on the clutch fork onto the bearing the correct way. Many flub this (it isn't obvious) and take out their throw-out bearings. Have installed many LUK's (made by Sachs) over the years and they have light pedal effort, butter-smooth engagement, and give no problems. That said, I recently installed a Zoom kit in my '61 Corvette, which was advertised as a street/performance clutch. It was listed at $216 for the kit at Jegs and Summit, but I got it from Rock Auto for $108. Been in there 3 years and I am delighted with it. Light pedal, superior clamping, no chatter.
> I installed a McCleod street/strip 3400LB red clutch in my '65 GTO in 1984 and it's still there working perfectly....but the pedal effort is oppressive. Super hard. But, it doesn't slip or chatter. So it is staying put.
> Fun Fact: the Dearborn 3 speed in your GTO made by Ford is substantially stronger than a Muncie 4 speed. They don't grenade.


Regarding clutch selection please have a look at post #6 . Maybe put your 2 cents in the hat if you would. Alms for the poor in knowledge in this area lol
Yeah that sure is some cool stuff about that tranny . Out there ! Ford/chevy in the 60's was like tyson/holyfield . Thats gotta be one of and if not thee only Ford part ever put in a Chevy. Id love to be privy to any other info you might know about that if you'd care to lend it


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

Would this 389 in the 66 goat have had an engine plate between motor and transmission?
This photo here if of a ford 302 but for illustration


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The Ford Dearborn three speed is the little brother to the famed 'Toploader' four speed. They are of the same design. Used as the standard three speed for Ford, BOP GM cars, Jeep, and for 70s Chevy pickups. It has been built in over a 120 different versions including a four speed O'drive. Found in both six cylinder and the big Ford V-8s. 

The BOP Dearborns used a special 10 spline 1 1/8 input shaft and throwout bearing and GM sized front bearing retainer. The output shaft is 28 spline like a C4 Ford. First gear is 2.41, second I think is 1.63, third being 1 to 1.

Pontiac first used the HD Ford three speed in late 64 for the B body cars, then introducing them in mid 65 for the A bodies. 
Two A body three speeds were available from 65-67. The Dearborn unit was optional.
it became standard equipment for the 68-69 GTOs and Firebird 400s, Tempest 350 HO and Sprint OHC. Used up to 1970 as the B bodiy standard transmission.

Pontiac tested the various three speeds that were available in late 63/64. They were unable to make the Ford fail after inflicting severe abuse. As mentioned above, they are much stronger than the Muncie. The cast iron case, although heavier, contributes to its strength. Many racers back in the day preferred them over a four speed.


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

O52 said:


> The Ford Dearborn three speed is the little brother to the famed 'Toploader' four speed. They are of the same design. Used as the standard three speed for Ford, BOP GM cars, Jeep, and for 70s Chevy pickups. It has been built in over a 120 different versions including a four speed O'drive. Found in both six cylinder and the big Ford V-8s.
> 
> The BOP Dearborns used a special 10 spline 1 1/8 input shaft and throwout bearing and GM sized front bearing retainer. The output shaft is 28 spline like a C4 Ford. First gear is 2.41, second I think is 1.63, third being 1 to 1.
> 
> ...


Truly awesome stuff . That word gets loosely thrown around these days but not by me .
I love the fact that the 3 speed is in my car !
Ford tough lol
Been a gm guy forever but definitely respect the Fords. Have to .
.hey does my car need or did it have an "engine plate between motor and tranny?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Al's 66 goat said:


> Truly awesome stuff . That word gets loosely thrown around these days but not by me .
> I love the fact that the 3 speed is in my car !
> Ford tough lol
> Been a gm guy forever but definitely respect the Fords. Have to .
> .hey does my car need or did it have an "engine plate between motor and tranny?


No, no engine plate.


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> No, no engine plate.


Thank you Jim. Much appreciated


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Al's 66 goat said:


> Thank you Jim. Much appreciated


The only time I have seen the use/need for a plate seems to been when your use an aftermarket "scatter shield" - stamped steel bellhousing to meet drag racing rules or for security when you start to develop a lot of BIG HP/TQ numbers and have posi-traction and tires that grip like slicks.

The stock cast iron flywheel can be dicey with any big HP engine or high RPM's. They can develop heat cracks which can then lead to failure. Resurfacing makes them thinner which doesn't help. Clutch/pressure plates can explode due to an unbalanced condition and high RPM's or overheating them when slipping the clutch and weakening the metal.

Here is a Lakewood unit for the Pontiac and you can also see the shield.


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## Al's 66 goat (Jul 21, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> The only time I have seen the use/need for a plate seems to been when your use an aftermarket "scatter shield" - stamped steel bellhousing to meet drag racing rules or for security when you start to develop a lot of BIG HP/TQ numbers and have posi-traction and tires that grip like slicks.
> 
> The stock cast iron flywheel can be dicey with any big HP engine or high RPM's. They can develop heat cracks which can then lead to failure. Resurfacing makes them thinner which doesn't help. Clutch/pressure plates can explode due to an unbalanced condition and high RPM's or overheating them when slipping the clutch and weakening the metal.
> 
> ...


Great info there !
Now I'm not very concerned at all about the cast flywheel. I'm not much over stock for power here and I'm not gonna pound this thing anyway. Some yes but definitely not on any consistent basis. The stock type clutch I've got looks like its has very little use.
I'm havin the flywheel skimmed and the plate cleaned up and that's it .


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## nhcd538 (12 d ago)

Hate to hijack this thread but I am converting a 67 GTO (which was originally built with a manual transmission) from a TH400 back to manual. I've warmed up to the idea of using a Dearborn 3-speed toploader and I found a great deal on one local to me, which came out of a 65 Mustang. 

I'm curious if anyone knows what output shaft yoke and driveshaft length I'll need to make this swap work, and also if any other modifications to the Toploader I found would be needed. I know I may need a new speedo cable as the speedo input on the Toploader is on the passenger side. 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

As mentioned in your other thread, the Mustang version will not work. 
Dearborn's are not that rare. Any 65-69 Buick, Olds or Pontiac "A" body Dearborn will work. The B body versions have a longer tail shaft housing if I recall. The metal tag on the side should indicate 'RAT' which is Ford's heavy duty version.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What 052 said.


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