# Body Off 66



## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

This is my first, Looking for advice. I have pulled the motor,trans, front and rear bumpers, still need to drop gas tank, my question.

Can I lift the body off and keep the front end on if I support the front on the radiator support bracket.

I have the car jacket up 18" or so I am going to block up the body, support the frame with roller jacks, remove the body bolts, lower the frame, once I lower about 2" I will use a frame made from scaffold poles on wheels to support the body, pull out the cars frame and be able to wheel the body around the shop.

I have a plan not sure if it will work?????

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Pete F said:


> This is my first, Looking for advice. I have pulled the motor,trans, front and rear bumpers, still need to drop gas tank, my question.
> 
> Can I lift the body off and keep the front end on if I support the front on the radiator support bracket.


Maybe, but I would strongly advise against trying it. Once you remove the core support and the body then all the weight of the hood, core support, fenders. etc. would be "hanging" on the points where the front fenders bolt to the cowl, plus there'd be very little support to keep the whole front end from "flopping" side to side. It would almost certainly result in bent body panels that you'd have to fix. If you're doing a body off, then you have to remove the fenders and hood to be able to get to "everything" like removing the doors anyway. If you really don't think you need to remove the fenders, then please revisit whether or not the car really needs a body off restoration. It's a huge and very expensive undertaking, and many more cars "die" from being disassembled and subsequently abandoned because their owners couldn't finish them than ever actually get completed.



> I have the car jacket up 18" or so I am going to block up the body, support the frame with roller jacks, remove the body bolts, lower the frame, once I lower about 2" I will use a frame made from scaffold poles on wheels to support the body, pull out the cars frame and be able to wheel the body around the shop.
> I have a plan not sure if it will work?????


Sounds reasonable as long as you can get it up high enough. Remember that you're going to have to get the body high enough so that the "hump" over the rear wheels that includes the crossmember and coil spring pockets can roll out from underneath the floor pan. In other words, you'll have to lift the body so that the bottom edge of the rocker panels are at least as high as the tops of the rear wheel openings are when the car is sitting on the ground - higher, because with the weight of the body off, the springs are going to carry the frame "higher".

Bear


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

Bear thanks for your response, you provided me with some good info, I will be in the garage tonight looking things over really hard.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

You're welcome... I speak with the voice of experience on that frame off deal. I took my 69 apart and started a restoration in about 1985. After I got it all apart and had the frame blasted, and then after I repainted the frame - "life" intervened and the car went into storage. It sat, untouched and undriveable, for the next 23 years. It was only my extreme good fortune in meeting and marrying an unbelievably good woman (got it right the second time) who encouraged and supported me to finish it that it got done. I drove it for the first time under it's own power in November of 2011. It was 100% complete and drivable when I started in on it. The floors, trunk, and roof were perfect. The only rust it had was around the corner of the rear window on the passenger side that also leaked down and got the edge of the wheel house and bottom of the quarter, the "usual" two spots down low on the front fenders, two small spots on the hood, about 8" of the passenger side rocker panel, and about 12" along the bottom of the windshield.

Even doing 100% of the work myself, including paint - I've spent about double on the car what it might sell for, and my car needed almost "nothing". 

So, think and consider carefully before you start down that road. Make sure you can make the entire trip.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Pete, I agree with everything Bear has told you. A lot of us have been there, and he is 100% giving you the straight dope. I would only do a body off if the car really needed it (extensive welding, rust, etc.). Very, very easy to totally disassemble one of these cars, get overwhelmed, and lose interest. Then you have a "big ol' mess". Bear's saga had a happy ending only because of his strict discipline, high level of skill (a lot learned as he went) and an understanding "better half". A full on body off restoration is expensive, frustrating, and time consuming. Be certain before you leap. I've helped with several body off resto's on GTO's, one took a year, one took three, and one is still apart...after more than 5 years. I've never done a body off on any of my own GTO's....They didn't "need" it, and I love driving them too much!


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

I am told I have something special??????? And doing some research I have not found any 66 GTOs with the number of options this car has (39), that’s got to be worth a little more if done right????? I see myself putting in $30,000.00 and today that is what most are going for. I am ok with that. I have a 65 that has been sitting in a container for 10 years waiting for me to make her pretty, but I needed a place to do the work so I built the garage so I would have the right conditions to play with her, then there was Baseball, football, soccer, and all the things that will only happen once in our lives, so the 65 had to wait, but along came the 66. A lot less work needed so here I go. That being said I will keep mostly stock and original. I am in a good state of mind to get this thing done. I just need good advice like yours to keep straight and on the right path. So I thank you for your words of wisdom.


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

Sorry GEETEE just got you note. Is it that bad????? It just looks easer to do the frame, rear and front end by taking her off. 10 bolts??? very little welding on the body, looks like drivers side floor has small hole starting other than that she is solid. Please note I will not be doing the body work or painting I will leave that to a professional, but I can do the frame and other things needed.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Hey Pete, It's not likely that anyone here is going to tell you what you SHOULD or SHOULDN'T do... those deicsions are yours alone to make, as it ought to be. Just understand that doing a body-off project is huge and will always be harder/longer than you think. Very few of us have either the experience or the tools/equipment that the guys on the TV shows who make it look easy do, not to mention the network-sized budgets, plus there's a lot of magic that gets done in the editing for those shows. For instance, it took me a solid week of pretty intense effort just to install the front bumper on my car and get it close to being aligned, and it's still not "perfect". On a TV show that job would have been something that happened by magic during a commercial break. In the end though it has to be your call. We all love these old cars, even the ones we don't own, and we just hate to see even one of them meet an untimely end, you know?

So, make your best, careful decision and we'll do our best to help when/where we can.

(Oh, and if you think you can finish the job for $30,000 - it's probably going to wind up costing you $60,000 by the time you're done. 

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Again, extremely well put, Mr. Bear. Especially the stuff about the television fantasy shows. Nowhere CLOSE to how it really is. Pete, it depends what those 39 options are. If they include 4 speed, tripower, rally gages, yes, it's a valuable car. If they are more like 'light group", and "safety warning speedometer", not so much. It sounds like your car is too nice for a frame off, from the small bits of information I'm able to glean.....pics??


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree with both Bear and GeeTee (mentors), i took the body on method of freshening up the Tempest as it was a high desert barn find with only the original paint under the black epoxy, 99.9% there and unmolested and in need of no metal work, and even doing everything including paint and body myself i am in it near 20K. You can figure a good body and paint job between 15 and 25K, ask Bear what his quotes were even after he did the body. Let me add there are a few schools of thought on value. A "survivior", One that is as it was born and still in great shape even with the patina of age is more valuable in my book than the same car after a full body off resto with shiny new Chinese chrome and inferior re-pop parts. Would you go at an antique tiffany lamp with Brasso????


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## 69Goatee (Aug 14, 2009)

I did the same thing you are about to do with the frame, lifting the body and frame, then dropping the frame down. But, I worked on the frame under the shadow of the body. I had to repair most of the rusted out mount holes. If it wasn't for the bad mount holes, I wouldn't have split the body and frame. Before I did the split, I took EVERYTHING off of the body and frame to make it as light as possible. After the body mount areas were repaired on both the frame and body, I cleaned up the frame and painted it with Por-15, then undercoated the body. I know this is not 100% correct, but it will look great for a long time.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Actually 69' a lot of these cars were "Ziebarted" from the dealers (dad used to get all his new cars done) and i will tell you what i went at it with 7 bags of course sand and every expletive in the book before i decided undercoating is a "good thing" just touched up the light areas and called it good for another 45 years.....:cheers


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

Don't laugh at me but how do I pull pictures to the site???????? And I am going to pull a car apart!!!!!!!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

As I've said before, my '67 was Ziebarted when new, and it's still on the car, 45 years later, and still doing it's job. It can stay there for another 45 years, as far as I'm concerned. No harm, no foul.


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

OK guys i got some pictures to my album still trying to get to my photos?????? trust me much better at the car gig


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

success


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

WOW. I've owned 9 GTO's, all '65, '66, and '67's, and have seen hundreds more, but I have to say, you have a rarely optioned and highly desirable car. I don't know where to begin. Killer color combo, hi-back seats, rear antenna, ac, tilt column, wood wheel, rally dash, and tripower, 4 speed, console, and on and on. Get this: I've been into these cars for over 30 years and there is NO WAY I'd do a frame off on that car. If it were mine, I would not even restore it. I would fix any mechanical problems and clean it up as good as possible and call it a survivor. If the car won't clean up well, (and it should) spot painting and detailing would get it done. Most of us on this forum would KILL to have a well optioned goat like yours. Please re-think your strategy!!!! Please!


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

Again I thought it was a special car, power windows, power sets, some sort of aluminum front brakes????? I will defiantly take your advice to heart. I am going to the Atlantic City Classic Car Show Saturday so that will keep me out of the garage till Sunday.

you all been great!!!! Thanks for the help


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> WOW. I've owned 9 GTO's, all '65, '66, and '67's, and have seen hundreds more, but I have to say, you have a rarely optioned and highly desirable car. I don't know where to begin. Killer color combo, hi-back seats, rear antenna, ac, tilt column, wood wheel, rally dash, and tripower, 4 speed, console, and on and on. Get this: I've been into these cars for over 30 years and there is NO WAY I'd do a frame off on that car. If it were mine, I would not even restore it. I would fix any mechanical problems and clean it up as good as possible and call it a survivor. If the car won't clean up well, (and it should) spot painting and detailing would get it done. Most of us on this forum would KILL to have a well optioned goat like yours. Please re-think your strategy!!!! Please!



I'm always the one who says "It's your money, your car, do what you want".... but in this case I have to :agree with GeeTee. That's one DANG nice car you've got there. Consider this: it can only be original once. After that, no matter how much money or effort you put into it, it can never be original ever again. I'm also a big believer in driving and enjoying these cars but I tell ya', that's one I'd be tempted to hide away somewhere and preserve, while I was finding another one to build and enjoy driving 

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

More to consider: a lot of high option GTO's are "created" by restorers and are completly redone with "Chinese chrome" and reproduction parts....almost nothing on the car was even around in the '60's. Like the '32 Ford with nothing 1932 on it. Or the '57 Chevy with the---yawn----continental kit, tissue dispenser, etc. etc. These cars are done up as eye candy and they impress non-car people. Car people are impressed by cars like yours: original, high-option, done-in-good-taste color combos, etc. A car like yours is worth much more historically, financially, and has much more to offer than a frame off restoration where all of the car's history has been erased. You'rs is the kind of car people gawk at at car shows....car people. Again, man what a car!!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

in a row of glittering cars thats the first one i would walk up to...it is a museum piece, if it were me, since you have the motor out, clean up and touch-up the engine bay. detail it and have the paint restored and touched up. If you have to replace anything do it with factory correct part.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes. Reseal/inspect/refurbish engine, clean up engine bay, etc. Looking more closely at the pics, I see 1967 door panels, so some clean original '66 panels would need to be sourced, and the engine has later heads and valve covers. Easily fixed. I'm with you, Inst. Clean it up and run it!!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

can go from this...










to this, with just a clean, scuff and spray can


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## teamwoody72 (May 23, 2008)

I thought i was the only one that took a week to get a front bumper right. Ok, Ill be honest, it was a week and a half. If you have a frame off set in your mind then go for it but make sure you have 1)plenty of time...2) plenty of money...and 3) plenty of patience. I have a half a dozen buddies that took perfectly good cars apart and ended selling as parts. Its a gurantee to be much harder and more expensive than you will anticipate but if your completely dedicated it will be worth it. Good Luck


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes, I have seen more nice cars than I can count taken apart, left apart, and then sold off as parts and junk for a fraction of the value of the original car. Just look in the ads for basket case cars...guys wanting "driver" money for a pile of parts they took apart with mis-guided good intentions until the time and money and patience and interest all ran out....now the basket case is for sale....but not sellable. Frame off restorations generally cost a minimum of 2 times the budget, but usually 3 times the initial projection.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

have a friend with a 69' GTO (possible Judge) that is in piles in the back of his shop for 10 years...will not come off it. Says it will be the new chevy camaro green with white SS stripes(yuck) with 454 motor (double yuck) when he never gets around to ruining it. Always laugh when looking at a pile of parts and the seller says "i have $xx,000 dollars into the car", i reply what car, you have a pile of parts that are worth half of what you payed for them, and offer accordingly.


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## Pete F (Feb 19, 2012)

Let me say that this car is not perfect and dose need to be freshened up at the lest. My plan was to pull the motor and trans, have them completely taken apart and freshened up to stock spec. pull the body off, so I can easily get to all bushings and pull the rear. I would like to upgrade the brake system???? Put the body back on then send it out to be re-painted, the guy I have is a great restorer of the old cars so I am very confident that it will be done right. Head liner needs to be new, pull the gas tank and lines, bumpers need to be redone, so with all the great wisdom you all have expressed, I will think hard and long before the body deal foreshore, and I know I will need your help along the way. Thanks again for your honesty!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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