# 1970 GTO Convertible Help Please!



## comerz1 (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey guys, new to the forum, anticipate spending a lot of time on here. I own a restoration shop and have just brought in a 1970 GTO convertible for a frame off restoration. The customer has intentions to sell this car when we are finished. Here is my dimema, I am needing to know the cars worth as is and restored. My fear is that we won't be able to keep the costs down enough for the customer to make any money on the car after paying us to restore it. The car is not highly optioned, but at the same time I do know our work, when it is complete is will be just as it was when it rolled off the showroom floor, maybe even better, (modern materials). 

Here are a few details:
Current owner is 2nd owner, bought car in 1973
400 4bbl Automatic
Power Steering and brakes with discs up front
Bucket seats with console
With exception of one wheel, current paint and an aftermarket stereo mounted in glovebox, everything is original at present time.
Car has been garaged 90% of it's life. 
Original color was Verdoro Green, car is currently red
Black interior and top

Any help on this would be great, I have recently seen Judge Conv go for under 50k restored, and cars like this one go for 80k. It seems they are all over the board. I am new to GTO's and just want to make sure we aren't doing the owner a disservice by restoring this car, she may be better off selling it like it is.

Sincerely,

Chris


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

comerz1 said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum, anticipate spending a lot of time on here. I own a restoration shop and have just brought in a 1970 GTO convertible for a frame off restoration. The customer has intentions to sell this car when we are finished. Here is my dimema, I am needing to know the cars worth as is and restored. My fear is that we won't be able to keep the costs down enough for the customer to make any money on the car after paying us to restore it. The car is not highly optioned, but at the same time I do know our work, when it is complete is will be just as it was when it rolled off the showroom floor, maybe even better, (modern materials).
> 
> Here are a few details:
> Current owner is 2nd owner, bought car in 1973
> ...


Chris, there are others on here MUCH more versed on restos than I but here is my take on this.

You're right, the owner of the car will not be able to recoup in $$ what you are gonna have to charge him. Even if he were to do the work himself he would not be fairly compensated for his own time. Restoration parts as you know cost a fortune even correct nuts and bolts are expensive.

The market is tanked right now and its not certain when the market will rebound. The owner of this car will get a restored car that he will not be able to flip for what he will have in it. Guys doing their own work are taking a hit on $$. The owner of this car should realize this before work begins unless he decides to keep the car. Many see $$$ signs in their eyes in restorations but the timing right now is off. 

There are many cars out there not selling for 35-40K restored. IMO, if the owner wants your shop to restore the car then he will want to flip it for what he thinks he can get, say 50K or more, its more than likely he's going to have a car he can't move for some time. Just my 2 cents.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

:agree whats a full frame off going to cost? 20-40 thousand? this car will not make a profit in todays market- the owner will make a higher percentage profit selling it as is- watch the upcoming Barret-Jackson auction and count how many times the announcers say " You couldn't have restored that car for the price they just bought it at" or " It cost much more to build it"


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## daveh70 (Sep 4, 2008)

comerz1 said:


> I have recently seen Judge Conv go for under 50k restored, and cars like this one go for 80k. It seems they are all over the board. I am new to GTO's and just want to make sure we aren't doing the owner a disservice by restoring this car, she may be better off selling it like it is.
> Chris


Is the car your restoring a real Judge 'vert? If not, you can't compare a standard GTO convertible to a Judge in terms of price.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Agree with the comments of others. The way the car is optioned makes it "the same" as the lions share of GTO's, so there's not really anything on it that would be considered extremely rare or desirable. You didn't say if it was a ram air car (III or IV) so I'm assuming that it's not. A good option to maximize value and profit potential for the owner would be to do a paint job only back to the original color, (assuming the body is mostly sound) and leave the rest as is. I'd estimate the market value of that car with the correct paint in good condition to be less than $20,000, perhaps less than $12,000 - $15,000 if it's otherwise mechanically sound and has no rust issues. I'm no expert, that's just a guess on my part.

Bear


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## comerz1 (Jan 15, 2011)

daveh70 said:


> Is the car your restoring a real Judge 'vert? If not, you can't compare a standard GTO convertible to a Judge in terms of price.


I was in no way comparing the value of this car to the value of a Judge, I was simply making the case that within my research it seems the selling prices are all over the board, regardless of what options there are. 

I really appreciate you guys and your input, it only confirms what I pretty well already knew. I guess I could have easily just kept my mouth shut or not worried about what the value of the car will be when we are done and collected the 30-40k for the restoration, but then there's that character thing. Dang morals! 

With all of that being said, this car is pretty solid, there are a very minor body dings on it but nothing that would justify replacing any panels, just needs a little massaging. So if anyone is looking for a good solid car to rebuild, drop me a line and make an offer, I will forward the offer to the owner.

Sincerely,
Chris


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

Well that is a breath of fresh air- glad to see someone who is not out to make the fast buck and screw someone over. Well done sir, the owner will greatly appreciate your honesty .:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

comerz1 said:


> I was in no way comparing the value of this car to the value of a Judge, I was simply making the case that within my research it seems the selling prices are all over the board, regardless of what options there are.
> 
> I really appreciate you guys and your input, it only confirms what I pretty well already knew. I guess I could have easily just kept my mouth shut or not worried about what the value of the car will be when we are done and collected the 30-40k for the restoration, but then there's that character thing. Dang morals!
> 
> ...


If its pretty sound an in overall decent shape maybe the owner would consider a decent paint job and some mechanical work to get her running as nice as she looks once the cosmetics are taken care of. 
He/She may still be able to turn a slight profit not just as big as intended.


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## comerz1 (Jan 15, 2011)

I will give the owner (a lady) this option and explain to her there are no guarantees what the value will be after the work is done and do everything I can to keep the cost down for her. This will be difficult at best since whoever changed the color to red went to great lengths to do so (there is no eveidence of original color on car). I will let you guys know what she decides.

Thanks again for all of your input to a new guy on the block, it is very much appreciated.

Chris


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

_
I really appreciate you guys and your input, it only confirms what I pretty well already knew. I guess I could have easily just kept my mouth shut or not worried about what the value of the car will be when we are done and collected the 30-40k for the restoration, but then there's that character thing. Dang morals! _



this line says a lot about you, your company and your ethics. Keep posting as i am sure there are many around here that could use the services of a reputable resto shop in your area.

1966 Tempest pictures by instg8ter - Photobucket

Brian:cheers


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## comerz1 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ok, I had a conversation with the owner today and she has made the decision to sell the car as is. I will post a listing for it here as soon as I can get pictures of it. I appreciate everyone's input and kind words, it is frustrating sometimes struggling through life knowing I could take the easy route and be a little better off for the moment. But in the long run, I would much rather have a solid reputation and be able to sleep at night, just nice to know some people still appreciate this.

Chris


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree i own a construction company and fight against the fly by night guys (more around now than ever) on every bid. and all people seem to care about these days is the lowest price. as i said in your previous post its good to find someone who is looking out for his customers best interest, and i am sure it will come back to you two fold when word gets out about your values and ethics.

:cheers


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Anyone ever watch Holmes on Homes??? One of the best shows on TV. Imagine a show on auto repairs and restorations with the same format? :willy::willy:


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Sounds like this went the right way. In my experience, the cheaper the seats, the louder the boo's. Trying to do a low budget full resto as a favor to a car owner is a recipe for disaster for all involved. Lose-lose. Better to have the car sold as is to someone who will refinish it or restore it to their comfort level. Well done.


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## comerz1 (Jan 15, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> Sounds like this went the right way. In my experience, the cheaper the seats, the louder the boo's. Trying to do a low budget full resto as a favor to a car owner is a recipe for disaster for all involved. Lose-lose. Better to have the car sold as is to someone who will refinish it or restore it to their comfort level. Well done.


yeah, no. We don't do cut rate restorations. This is why I came to this board for a little experienced advice. We have no real specialty so I always research each project and try to understand the owners purpose for restoring before we start, that way there are no surprises on the back side. 

I have been a little busy, will post pics soon to see what you guys think it may be worth, she ain't pretty but she is solid.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

comerz1 said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum, anticipate spending a lot of time on here. I own a restoration shop and have just brought in a 1970 GTO convertible for a frame off restoration. The customer has intentions to sell this car when we are finished. Here is my dimema, I am needing to know the cars worth as is and restored. My fear is that we won't be able to keep the costs down enough for the customer to make any money on the car after paying us to restore it. The car is not highly optioned, but at the same time I do know our work, when it is complete is will be just as it was when it rolled off the showroom floor, maybe even better, (modern materials).
> 
> Here are a few details:
> Current owner is 2nd owner, bought car in 1973
> ...


30k range restored to nice but not concours.


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