# NO BRAKES!



## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

I just replaced my booster proportioing valve with a new 8" so my rockers wont hit the VCs with the new ones bled the brakes & was going to test drive it started it up no brakes.
Could it be I just need to bleed them more? there a pain to bleed I have to remove the wheels. But I guess thats all I can think of I have discs front drums rear the kit I bought was for that setup. Anyone in Nor Cal?


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

im not in cali but i will help if i can. tell me how you bled the brakes. have you bled brakes before?


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

ponchonlefty said:


> im not in cali but i will help if i can. tell me how you bled the brakes. have you bled brakes before?


Just a couple of times I did the backs first then the fronts seems to have alot of air it would be good if I could do both rears at the same time I watched a guy on utube who put his line in the fluid and did the bleeding alone not to comfy with that I do have someone but when I was done I started it up and the pedal just went right to the floor
I'll check for leaks in the morning I dont think there are any not sure thoigh


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Droach6498 said:


> Just a couple of times I did the backs first then the fronts seems to have alot of air it would be good if I could do both rears at the same time I watched a guy on utube who put his line in the fluid and did the bleeding alone not to comfy with that I do have someone but when I was done I started it up and the pedal just went right to the floor
> I'll check for leaks in the morning I dont think there are any not sure thoigh


you want to first bleed the master cylinder,bench bleed the master cylinder. then the farthest from the master cylinder. i go rear passenger, then the rear driver,then passenger front,driver front. you can gravity bleed the wheel cylinders to start the process. i personally use the old way of bleeding brakes,where you have someone to pump the brake and the other person to crack the bleeders, but there are more modern ways to do it. now my cars are not show cars so i don't worry about the mess. if your car is nicely detailed use the hose on the bleeders and into the jar or container. try not to get the brake fluid on any painted surfaces.it will ruin it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Call if you need help, bro!

As @ponchonlefty said, you definitely need to bench bleed the master first! Do you know anyone with a motiv bleeder? They work SOOOOOOO well!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

ponchonlefty said:


> you want to first bleed the master cylinder,bench bleed the master cylinder. then the farthest from the master cylinder. i go rear passenger, then the rear driver,then passenger front,driver front. you can gravity bleed the wheel cylinders to start the process. i personally use the old way of bleeding brakes,where you have someone to pump the brake and the other person to crack the bleeders, but there are more modern ways to do it. now my cars are not show cars so i don't worry about the mess. if your car is nicely detailed use the hose on the bleeders and into the jar or container. try not to get the brake fluid on any painted surfaces.it will ruin it.


That's what I was going to suggest, the master has to be bench blead according to the directions and then I used clear hoses on the bleeders so I could see the air. When you change all that stuff it takes a lot of time and fluid and don't let the master run out of fluid or you'll have to start all over.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

ponchonlefty said:


> im not in cali but i will help if i can. tell me how you bled the brakes. have you bled brakes before?


So I bled the brakes really well the brakes work but the pedal is almost on the floor. Think I need to bleed some more?
One more thing I put the wheels back on one of the rear lug bolt broke off. HTF do I fix that without pulling the axle? Looks like they are pressed on


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Call if you need help, bro!
> 
> As @ponchonlefty said, you definitely need to bench bleed the master first! Do you know anyone with a motiv bleeder? They work SOOOOOOO well!


 So I have brakes they're almost down to the floor though 2-3 inches off the floor till they grab. Think I need to bleed again? Maybe I missed some air? What else could ir be? I did all that very well. Bench bled started at the rear passenger to driver rear the fronts which are discs did it till no bubbles. I guess try bleeding again I cant think what else.
I also broke a rear wheel stud just spun right off. Back to youtube


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Droach6498 said:


> So I bled the brakes really well the brakes work but the pedal is almost on the floor. Think I need to bleed some more?
> One more thing I put the wheels back on one of the rear lug bolt broke off. HTF do I fix that without pulling the axle? Looks like they are pressed on


pump the pedal one to three times.if the pedal gets higher it needs to be bled again. if not it could be the wrong master cylinder. some are deeper than others. for the lug stud remove the drum use a punch to knock it out.then install the new by pulling it in with the lug nut. you may have to use washers to pull it in. make sure you get the right size lug stud.dont assume the parts guy knows what you need.you could knock a good one out as a pattern to what you need.


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Droach,
You said you replaced the booster and proportioning valve, so I am assuming you still have the old master cylinder.. Regardless, you had to break all the lines open to do the R&R so there is most likely a LOT of air in your system.
I saw either the same or similar YouTube video for using a bottle and hose if you are doing it yourself. I've used that process once before and it_ does_ work! Yes, bench bleed the master. They make cheap kits to allow you to do that. (mine was 18$ at O'Reillys) I just replaced my MC and PV as rust had started and sediment had gotten into my MC via a deteriorated cap gasket, which ultimately plugged off something in the front system and the front brakes started to drag because of not fully releasing. Since my PV is mounted directly beneath the MC I bench bled all the way through my PV. I used the bottle process again to completely flush my lines. I think I must have used almost half a gallon of brake fluid ( DOT 4 Hi temp) but I am glad I did. The old fluid coming out was almost a dark amber in color and I flushed until I got new clear liquid out.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> So I have brakes they're almost down to the floor though 2-3 inches off the floor till they grab. Think I need to bleed again? Maybe I missed some air? What else could ir be? I did all that very well. Bench bled started at the rear passenger to driver rear the fronts which are discs did it till no bubbles. I guess try bleeding again I cant think what else.
> I also broke a rear wheel stud just spun right off. Back to youtube


I would really try to get a motive bleeder. Everyone should have one. Just filled my tremec with it Monday and bled my brakes with it Wednesday


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I have a lovely assistant that helps bleed my brakes, and she worked the jack when installing the trans, she's also my cup holder in the car 😉


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

ponchonlefty said:


> pump the pedal one to three times.if the pedal gets higher it needs to be bled again. if not it could be the wrong master cylinder. some are deeper than others. for the lug stud remove the drum use a punch to knock it out.then install the new by pulling it in with the lug nut. you may have to use washers to pull it in. make sure you get the right size lug stud.dont assume the parts guy knows what you need.you could knock a good one out as a pattern to what you need.


im ordering the stud from Ames. I drove the car around the block the pedal didnt move up any, could I have the rod to close? I watched youtube for GM they stated 1/32" thats about where I put it, the guy I got the parts from said it should be good I measured it around 1/8" maybe put it back?


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I would really try to get a motive bleeder. Everyone should have one. Just filled my tremec with it Monday and bled my brakes with it Wednesday


??????


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Droach6498 said:


> im ordering the stud from Ames. I drove the car around the block the pedal didnt move up any, could I have the rod to close? I watched youtube for GM they stated 1/32" thats about where I put it, the guy I got the parts from said it should be good I measured it around 1/8" maybe put it back?


how do the brakes feel? is the pedal solid? does the pedal come up high like before you changed everything? could be mismatched parts.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

well its nothing for a few inches just very soft then it grabs and stops like I said 2-3 inches from the bottom they work ok just way to far down
Mis matched parts? Its supposed to be for a 64-67 gto discs in front drums rear.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Jim K said:


> Droach,
> You said you replaced the booster and proportioning valve, so I am assuming you still have the old master cylinder.. Regardless, you had to break all the lines open to do the R&R so there is most likely a LOT of air in your system.
> I saw either the same or similar YouTube video for using a bottle and hose if you are doing it yourself. I've used that process once before and it_ does_ work! Yes, bench bleed the master. They make cheap kits to allow you to do that. (mine was 18$ at O'Reillys) I just replaced my MC and PV as rust had started and sediment had gotten into my MC via a deteriorated cap gasket, which ultimately plugged off something in the front system and the front brakes started to drag because of not fully releasing. Since my PV is mounted directly beneath the MC I bench bled all the way through my PV. I used the bottle process again to completely flush my lines. I think I must have used almost half a gallon of brake fluid ( DOT 4 Hi temp) but I am glad I did. The old fluid coming out was almost a dark amber in color and I flushed until I got new clear liquid out.


Thanks JIm
I did everything a few times becnh bled bled the brakes until no bubbles I did adjust the booster rod a litlle the brakes work but not until its about 2-3 inches off the floor. Im going to adjust the rod back tommorrow I dont know what else could be. Poncho mentioned it maybe wrong setup. Its supposed to be for a 64-67 gto discs front drums rear thats what I got it all fits fine .I did have a metering valve I didnt put that back. I have used qite a bit of brake fluid like a pint..But could the rod adjustment make that much difference? I'll try bleeding again. I do have help, my son. Weekdays is bit harder he works and I am to now for a bit.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> ??????


Power bleeders are for mechanics. They serve many purposes on a car, not the least of which is bleeding.

For 35 years I used the old "pump it up and hold it" method, but not only is that a huge pain, which requires two people, it's simply not very effective or efficient either. 

A power bleeder will not only allow one person to efficiently bleed the most difficult system, quickly, by themselves, but it will also replace all of the fluid in the brake system, in a matter of minutes, flush a line out, bleed a clutch, AND, it can be used to bulk fill, out of position stuff like differentials and transmissions as well.

I got mine because I like restoring C3 Corvettes and they have master cylinders at an angle, which makes them prone to trap air, as well as dual bleeder, four piston calipers... and they're just a nightmare to bleed.

The motive doesnt just bleed the brakes, it does it better. I can consistently feel the difference in the pedal.

Plus, I worked on a Pontiac Executive a few weeks back, and the brake fluid was all rusted and evaporated... then someone added the wrong fluid. A power bleeder will quickly swap out old/ bad/ burnt/ wrong fluid for good.

But last week I swapped the oil in my Tremec TKX, and instead of wrestling under the car with gear oil bottles, funnels, or transfer pumps, I just filled the Motive with Mobil 1, pumped it up to 20 psi, and it filled the transmission for me, while I mowed the lawn.


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Thanks JIm
> I did everything a few times becnh bled bled the brakes until no bubbles I did adjust the booster rod a litlle the brakes work but not until its about 2-3 inches off the floor. Im going to adjust the rod back tommorrow I dont know what else could be. Poncho mentioned it maybe wrong setup. Its supposed to be for a 64-67 gto discs front drums rear thats what I got it all fits fine .I did have a metering valve I didnt put that back. I have used qite a bit of brake fluid like a pint..But could the rod adjustment make that much difference? I'll try bleeding again. I do have help, my son. Weekdays is bit harder he works and I am to now for a bit.


Hey Droach,
If you have pics of what you are dealing with, that would help everyone to help you through this. If you are sure you have the right components for your year/model then it's either the adjustment on the booster rod or air still in the system. Once your brake pedal travels that long way, does it get hard immediately? Or still feel spongy? Or does it feel spongy all the way down?


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

J


Jim K said:


> Hey Droach,
> If you have pics of what you are dealing with, that would help everyone to help you through this. If you are sure you have the right components for your year/model then it's either the adjustment on the booster rod or air still in the system. Once your brake pedal travels that long way, does it get hard immediately? Or still feel spongy? Or does it feel spongy all the way down?


Its a little spongy to the contact then its harder but not super firm but firm enough, hard to explain. Im going to shorten the rod back to where it was then bench bleed the M/C in place then bleed the brakes again. If that dont work I'll call the supplier Monday


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Well I took it apart this morning bench bled it again it was fine shortened the rod about 1/8" and bled it that made a hell of a difference they're still a little soft but Im sure they would pass an inspection. Now the electrical, No lights are working other than the rear running lights are on all the time when the keys on. It all was working before. Im ordering a color coded diagram from Ames. Im thinking of the gauges from Speedhut. As I have no brake lights or headlights turn signal horn, they all worked prior.
But at least the brakes are good for now


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Sounds like you're still getting air out of the system but you've made some good progress. Shortening the rod would increase the amount of pedal travel before it actuates the MC as your pedal should come all the way back to the pedal stop.
That color coded wiring diagram should help you de-cipher your electrical problem. Strange how it was working before but all messed up now.. If I were chasing an electrical problem, I'd troubleshoot until I found the problem, then make my decision on spending $$ on anything new that hooked into it. Never know what you'll find as the electrical problem and introduction of anything new before you find the problem might exacerbate the original issue.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Well I took it apart this morning bench bled it again it was fine shortened the rod about 1/8" and bled it that made a hell of a difference they're still a little soft but Im sure they would pass an inspection. Now the electrical, No lights are working other than the rear running lights are on all the time when the keys on. It all was working before. Im ordering a color coded diagram from Ames. Im thinking of the gauges from Speedhut. As I have no brake lights or headlights turn signal horn, they all worked prior.
> But at least the brakes are good for now


Also be sure that you dont have more than one hole on your brake pedal. If so, moving to the lowest hole will increase your throw


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Also be sure that you dont have more than one hole on your brake pedal. If so, moving to the lowest hole will increase your throw


Yes, I had to drill a lower one when I converted to power disc.


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Well I took it apart this morning bench bled it again it was fine shortened the rod about 1/8" and bled it that made a hell of a difference they're still a little soft but Im sure they would pass an inspection. Now the electrical, No lights are working other than the rear running lights are on all the time when the keys on. It all was working before. Im ordering a color coded diagram from Ames. Im thinking of the gauges from Speedhut. As I have no brake lights or headlights turn signal horn, they all worked prior.
> But at least the brakes are good for now


After thinking about it a little bit, your brake pedal arm actuates a switch as it comes back to rest. By shortening your booster rod, you may have moved the brake pedal arm down enough that it no longer actuates that switch at rest. That could be why your brake lights are on all the time. The switch is position adjustable and it might be nothing more than a quick re-adjustment of it.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Jim K said:


> Sounds like you're still getting air out of the system but you've made some good progress. Shortening the rod would increase the amount of pedal travel before it actuates the MC as your pedal should come all the way back to the pedal stop.
> That color coded wiring diagram should help you de-cipher your electrical problem. Strange how it was working before but all messed up now.. If I were chasing an electrical problem, I'd troubleshoot until I found the problem, then make my decision on spending $$ on anything new that hooked into it. Never know what you'll find as the electrical problem and introduction of anything new before you find the problem might exacerbate the original issue.


Thanks Jim It does feel like there is still air even thoigh I bled hell out of the rear fronts are solid, I'll bleed them again later
The electtrical was all working I think the mechanic who installed my engine and after market gauges Fd it all up Im going to try to find the problem but I dont know nothng about auto elec.
AC I know but DC no


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Thanks Jim It does feel like there is still air even thoigh I bled hell out of the rear fronts are solid, I'll bleed them again later
> The electtrical was all working I think the mechanic who installed my engine and after market gauges Fd it all up Im going to try to find the problem but I dont know nothng about auto elec.
> AC I know but DC no


AC and DC electric are near identical in how they work. Check your grounds really good!

As for the brakes, was the proportioning valve changed during your swap?


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> AC and DC electric are near identical in how they work. Check your grounds really good!
> 
> As for the brakes, was the proportioning valve changed during your swap?


I purchased a whole new booster, MC. prop valve, its working good now just a bit soft so Im going to keep on bleeding the rears. The fronts are solid.
AC & DC arent really much alike you dont need ground for AC to work just positive & neutral ground is for protection Ive never been shocked from DC


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Ive never been shocked from DC


Be very thankful. DC often has much higher amps than AC, and it's the amps that get you!!!! 

My tig welder puts out 200 amps at 18 volts... My GTO has a Mallory coil that'll launch you into another time zone, if you're not careful.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

But, glad you have it sorted.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Power bleeders are for mechanics. They serve many purposes on a car, not the least of which is bleeding.
> 
> For 35 years I used the old "pump it up and hold it" method, but not only is that a huge pain, which requires two people, it's simply not very effective or efficient either.
> 
> ...



There you go spending my money again. It should be worth the money. I never know what the kids are going to bring home broken. They always hear Mom calling when its time for the work to get done.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> There you go spending my money again. It should be worth the money. I never know what the kids are going to bring home broken. They always hear Mom calling when its time for the work to get done.


They're so awesome! Makes bleeding a joy!


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Be very thankful. DC often has much higher amps than AC, and it's the amps that get you!!!!
> 
> My tig welder puts out 200 amps at 18 volts... My GTO has a Mallory coil that'll launch you into another time zone, if you're not careful.


I've always heard that its the amps that kills you not volts, never been zapped by 220 Ive heard its a jolt been had by 110 many times as when I work on it I usually dont turn off the breaker, if I do I hit it to ground. 
The brakes are still a bit spongy, might be vacuum I need to figure out how to adjust vacuum on 65 Tri power never worked on vacuum before. Everything is new to me
I would get a power bleeder except I already have a bunch of tools I'll never use again, at my age there not going to be used but 1 time


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## Totimeout (Aug 5, 2021)

First of all why did you take the master cylinder off if you were only changing the booster? But. Working as a mechanic for ups. We bleed the brakes from the wheel up. You can buy a spring loaded top for a metal can. Pull it up and the spring pushes it down. You can do it with only person. Start with the wheel furthest from the master. Check the fluid level, in the master so you don't overflow it. Chace the air up,instead of trying to push it down. Also. The push rod needs to be the correct length. Too short means too much play in the paddle.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Totimeout said:


> First of all why did you take the master cylinder off if you were only changing the booster? But. Working as a mechanic for ups. We bleed the brakes from the wheel up. You can buy a spring loaded top for a metal can. Pull it up and the spring pushes it down. You can do it with only person. Start with the wheel furthest from the master. Check the fluid level, in the master so you don't overflow it. Chace the air up,instead of trying to push it down. Also. The push rod needs to be the correct length. Too short means too much play in the paddle.


Actually I lengthened it prior to install, so I shortened it back to where the manufacrue had it about 1/8" bled brakes works much better still a bit spongy though will bleed some more this weekend
I bout an entire kit as I want it to look nice, the reason is my rockers were hitting the VCs I installed roller rockers and I couldnt put a bigger VCs due to the booster was right on top of the VC. So I wanted it to looki good so I got a kit all chrome. Here it is


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Looks GREAT! Who did you wind up using for the parts? Looks like a very clean setup.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Looks GREAT! Who did you wind up using for the parts? Looks like a very clean setup.


Ebay Tomsclassics the guy was very cool about it after I emailed a couple questions he gave me his number said call him if have anymore questions
I just found out about the booster rod measureing tool wish I saaw that when I started


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> Ebay Tomsclassics the guy was very cool about it after I emailed a couple questions he gave me his number said call him if have anymore questions
> I just found out about the booster rod measureing tool wish I saaw that when I started


I've gotten stuff from him too, I can't tell if that's a flat MC lid but if so watch it for leaks being on that angle. I battled with mine finally using a cork gasket combined with the rubber one, looks good


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## z man (Jun 20, 2010)

May have been mentioned , but if you have an adjustment screw on you rear drums, it may still have a lot of play before it pushes shoes. Adjust to 1.5 turns of rear tire rotation( hope not a posi, or jack up complete rear). Or put in reverse and at 15/20 mph lock them up a few times. Raises petal.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

z man said:


> May have been mentioned , but if you have an adjustment screw on you rear drums, it may still have a lot of play before it pushes shoes. Adjust to 1.5 turns of rear tire rotation( hope not a posi, or jack up complete rear). Or put in reverse and at 15/20 mph lock them up a few times. Raises petal.


Interesting Z I do have posi I'll try the reverse method never heard it before.


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## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Droach6498 said:


> Actually I lengthened it prior to install, so I shortened it back to where the manufacrue had it about 1/8" bled brakes works much better still a bit spongy though will bleed some more this weekend
> I bout an entire kit as I want it to look nice, the reason is my rockers were hitting the VCs I installed roller rockers and I couldnt put a bigger VCs due to the booster was right on top of the VC. So I wanted it to looki good so I got a kit all chrome. Here it is
> View attachment 157964
> View attachment 157965


very clean engine compartment.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jim K said:


> After thinking about it a little bit, your brake pedal arm actuates a switch as it comes back to rest. By shortening your booster rod, you may have moved the brake pedal arm down enough that it no longer actuates that switch at rest. That could be why your brake lights are on all the time. The switch is position adjustable and it might be nothing more than a quick re-adjustment of it.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jim K said:


> After thinking about it a little bit, your brake pedal arm actuates a switch as it comes back to rest. By shortening your booster rod, you may have moved the brake pedal arm down enough that it no longer actuates that switch at rest. That could be why your brake lights are on all the time. The switch is position adjustable and it might be nothing more than a quick re-adjustment of it.


I just had to adjust mine because the lights were coming on with the slightest movement of the car, the plastic threads on the switch wear and with only one lock nut it moves. I put a nut on both sides of the switch to keep it in place but it's a fine thread so I found a thin brass nut maybe it was for plumbing but I know it's an 11/16" wrench.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I've gotten stuff from him too, I can't tell if that's a flat MC lid but if so watch it for leaks being on that angle. I battled with mine finally using a cork gasket combined with the rubber one, looks good


It is flat Im trying to give the car some bling when I can, so you get those gaskets at parts store? No leaks from it so far had a couple connectors leaked all gone now. brakes are much better just spongy I'll work on them this weekend
Now Im thinking Tremec would be nice tocruise at 70 Im topped at 90 well would be if I drove that fast more like100 still be nice to have a 5 speed


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> It is flat Im trying to give the car some bling when I can, so you get those gaskets at parts store? No leaks from it so far had a couple connectors leaked all gone now. brakes are much better just spongy I'll work on them this weekend
> Now Im thinking Tremec would be nice tocruise at 70 Im topped at 90 well would be if I drove that fast more like100 still be nice to have a 5 speed


Just keep an eye on the back of the cover for leaks because brake fluid makes a great paint remover.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

z man said:


> put in reverse and at 15/20 mph lock them up a few times. Raises petal


I still use that method regularly.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> I'll try the reverse method never heard it before.


As I mentioned, I still use it to this day. They were designed that way.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Just keep an eye on the back of the cover for leaks because brake fluid makes a great paint remover.


Where do you get the gaskets. I know about the paint when bleeding some got on my suspension parts A arm, knuckle etc stripped the paint right off, I was really concerned with the body I cant afford a new paint job. A guy just bought my old valve covers told me paint jobs here are around $40k-60k. Fn ridiculous. I cant afford a $10k paint job.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> Where do you get the gaskets. I know about the paint when bleeding some got on my suspension parts A arm, knuckle etc stripped the paint right off, I was really concerned with the body I cant afford a new paint job. A guy just bought my old valve covers told me paint jobs here are around $40k-60k. Fn ridiculous. I cant afford a $10k paint job.


I just bought a thin sheet of cork and cut out the shape of the cover and glued it to it, then used the rubber one it came with. Mine is Chinese crap from MBM and a tech there said they don't do good on an angle when the fluid starts sloshing around. No leaks this year so far, just keep an eye and a finger on it. Ya I just stopped by the painter who's going to spot in my bad areas on Wednesday and he said some paints are running a 1000.00 a gallon! He quoted me 15K last year for a complete now he's saying 20-25K....F that! But 40-60K seems a bit high unless it's a museum paint job, a guy that rented from us who owns The Tin Mans garage a TV kind of shop did a '36 Willys pickup that had a 100,000.00 paint job !


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I just bought a thin sheet of cork and cut out the shape of the cover and glued it to it, then used the rubber one it came with. Mine is Chinese crap from MBM and a tech there said they don't do good on an angle when the fluid starts sloshing around. No leaks this year so far, just keep an eye and a finger on it. Ya I just stopped by the painter who's going to spot in my bad areas on Wednesday and he said some paints are running a 1000.00 a gallon! He quoted me 15K last year for a complete now he's saying 20-25K....F that! But 40-60K seems a bit high unless it's a museum paint job, a guy that rented from us who owns The Tin Mans garage a TV kind of shop did a '36 Willys pickup that had a 100,000.00 paint job !


Id like to see it 100k paint job. Ths guy said he got a gallon for $3500 Jeez whats it coming to? Maybe my cr will be worth $100k!


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

I'm having the same problem with my Trans Am. I bench bled and replaced the master cylinder. Now I'm having a hard time bleeding and getting good pedal pressure. My mc is tilted upward like Army mentioned. I never would have thought of that being a probelm but it makes sense. I'm going to try the traditional bleed again with a friend. If it doesn't work I'm definitely ordering a Motive bleeder.
Thanks Army. Another great tip.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

CDub67 said:


> I'm having the same problem with my Trans Am. I bench bled and replaced the master cylinder. Now I'm having a hard time bleeding and getting good pedal pressure. My mc is tilted upward like Army mentioned. I never would have thought of that being a probelm but it makes sense. I'm going to try the traditional bleed again with a friend. If it doesn't work I'm definitely ordering a Motive bleeder.
> Thanks Army. Another great tip.


Let me know if you do and if that helped


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Idk I replaced everything about four years ago, bench blead the master and I had a good pedal right away. Its an 8" dual booster and I have about 15" of vacuum, I had to replace a caliper and the next year the brake line under the motor, I blead the fronts each time with an assistant and it stops on a couple of dimes.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> Id like to see it 100k paint job. Ths guy said he got a gallon for $3500 Jeez whats it coming to? Maybe my cr will be worth $100k!


Go to his website or Instagram "The Tin Man's Garage" you'll be amazed. The guy with the Willys truck spent 1.2 million on it !!!


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Go to his website or Instagram "The Tin Man's Garage" you'll be amazed. The guy with the Willys truck spent 1.2 million on it !!!


Nice vehicles couldnt see much had limited access, but before I spent that kind of $ I look a6 Ferraris, lambos, Bugatti, etc but I get it labor of love.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

CDub67 said:


> I'm having the same problem with my Trans Am. I bench bled and replaced the master cylinder. Now I'm having a hard time bleeding and getting good pedal pressure. My mc is tilted upward like Army mentioned. I never would have thought of that being a probelm but it makes sense. I'm going to try the traditional bleed again with a friend. If it doesn't work I'm definitely ordering a Motive bleeder.
> Thanks Army. Another great tip.


Pm me if you get jammed up


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Now Im thinking Tremec would be nice tocruise at 70 Im topped at 90 well would be if I drove that fast more like100 still be nice to have a 5 speed


No doubt Army can help with that😁


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Pm me if you get jammed up


Well the big problem now is the elec it all worked fine prior to the drive train refurbish now nothing except the gas gauge, after market gauges after tach and dome ligh both doors all workt. Worries me driving around with no brake lights turn signals. Im going to check the fuses tommorow but the rear tail lights are on when the key is on, its afu.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As I mentioned, sounds like a ground is diconnected somewere. I would run a ground from the frame to body, body to engine, frame to engine... NO PAINT where the grounds are!!! I lost $3000 on the sale of a car because the ground had paint under it!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

What he said, and I have a ground hub on my steering column bracket for everything under the dash.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> As I mentioned, sounds like a ground is diconnected somewere. I would run a ground from the frame to body, body to engine, frame to engine... NO PAINT where the grounds are!!! I lost $3000 on the sale of a car because the ground had paint under it!


Ground yeh maybe I'll c if I can figure it out the gas gauge didnt work do to bad ground but all of them ? Sounds more like a bad connection as brake lights head lights dash gauge lights all dont work as well as the gauges
I got a colored elec schematic but it doesnt make sence to me


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Droach6498 said:


> Ground yeh maybe I'll c if I can figure it out the gas gauge didnt work do to bad ground but all of them ? Sounds more like a bad connection as brake lights head lights dash gauge lights all dont work as well as the gauges
> I got a colored elec schematic but it doesnt make sence to me


One thing most often left off when pulling an engine, rebuilding it, or doing restoration work are the grounds that go from the engine to the frame and the engine to the firewall. Sometimes, not all times, if these grounds are left off you can have electrical issues you will be chasing and losing sleep over because of these missing grounds.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> One thing most often left off when pulling an engine, rebuilding it, or doing restoration work are the grounds that go from the engine to the frame and the engine to the firewall. Sometimes, not all times, if these grounds are left off you can have electrical issues you will be chasing and losing sleep over because of these missing grounds.


OK thanks Jim will definately check all grounds should I run a ground from the battery to the firewall chassis? Its no problem I have a multi ported battery connectors.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I have a 12awg wire from the battery negative to my firewall ground also.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Droach6498 said:


> OK thanks Jim will definately check all grounds should I run a ground from the battery to the firewall chassis? Its no problem I have a multi ported battery connectors.


However you choose to hook it up. From what I know from my '68, there is a ground wire/cable that goes from the back of the passenger head to firewall, and a ground on the left side of the frame - maybe the radiator support?

I circled the ground cable on the firewall, but it is disconnected in the picture. It is a braided cable. The other ground is at the front frame horn.


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Update on my brakes. With the help of my lovely assisatnt of 42 years, I re-bled each wheel and found a lot of air that I had missed the first time around. I'm sure it's because my Haynes manual led me astray. It says to start with the wheel closest to the master cylinder. Another factor is that I couldn't get a good look at the flow of fluid in the hose on one of the wheels and probably shut it off too soon. I also used a proportioning valve bleeder tool because I had removed the switch to check it and after had a constant brake light on the dash.

I'm happy to report that I have good pedal response and they now work quite well. I might try bleeding them once more just because I feel they could/should grab a bit more. But I'd be very confident in them out on the road.

Thanks again for all the useful tips. Droach, I hope you get yours sorted soon.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I have a 12awg wire from the battery negative to my firewall ground also.
> 
> OK then thats my next project I know I have a couple at least I'll add more make sure they are clean
> Thanks
> ...


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Another brake update: So I took the TA out for a real drive today (not just an up-the-street test drive) and the brakes were slightly better than horrible. Looks like it's back to the drawing board. Motive bleeder, here I come.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

CDub67 said:


> Another brake update: So I took the TA out for a real drive today (not just an up-the-street test drive) and the brakes were slightly better than horrible. Looks like it's back to the drawing board. Motive bleeder, here I come.


I've seen the motive cure a few unexplained brake issues. I hope it does for you!


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