# Died on me twice in 5 miles :(



## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi all,
I just got done installing a new fuel filter and lines. Everything before the regulator was replaced. It started up and seemed to run great. Let it idle for 10 minutes, then ran it about 10 miles, all went good.

Then on the way home while driving it starts to cut out, can see the oil gauge cutting in and out, I tried to hold it at a low idle, but it just keeps running rough, then gradually dies in about a 1 minute time span. I just pop the clutch and coast to a parking lot. I immediately pop the hood and check for the air bubble, see none. So I hurry up and check the carb (burnt my fingers, lol). Not really sure what I am looking for, but when I press the throttle 1 of the jets sprays. I never once seen the other spray, should it? So I start it up and it runs fine. I shut it off. Then get the video camera out, it starts right up again. Video will be below. So I put the carb back together and take off. About 3 miles later going 50 mph in 4th gear it starts to spudder and run rough again, then eventually dies. I barley made it to a parking lot. Again I rush to check the fuel filter, it is good. I then hop back in and she fires right up. I then made it home.

I would say it just wasn't getting fuel when it cut out, or not enough. But just a guess 

At home I shut it off and then check the filter, here I see some bubbles, noting like before, but the same thing. Video is below.

The new fuel line is 6-10 inches longer than the last one, wonder if it has any effect.

Here is the new filter (They only had the same one I had before) and lines:









Here is some pics of the pump and line:









Here is video of the carb after first stall:





Here is video of the bubbles in the filter:






Thanks for any help


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Good job on the fuel filter and line. Fuel pump is far enough eway from the exhaust, no issue. Motor sounds like it's ready for a valve adjustment. No idea why it died, only the front squirter will squirt at low throttle, other will pump later, but I did see 2 streams to the primarys, carb is good. 
Gotta love an old car, quirky..


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree about the valve adjustment, sounds a little noisy on the top end.
When it dies, can you still hear the pump running?
Also, you said the oil pressure was going up and down, is the fuel pump wired through the oil pressure switch? If it's a bad switch, could cause what your describing.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

I agree with the valve adjustment...sounds like a Pontiac! Most fuel filters have some air in them...but his looks excessive...sucking air some place? E


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

At that exact time, I can't say for sure if the pump was running as it was spuddering real bad and I was trying to keep it running. I do know it was on when it died as I could hear it in the silence. So I turned it off while I was coasting.

When you say switch, do you mean fuese box? The pump is plugged into a different spot. I think the oil gauge fluctuation was due to it basically shutting off, then firing.

Only place I can see it would suck air would have to be back by the tank somewhere. Unless somewhere in the carb it does it.

I was talking with jet and told him when I first installed the new filter and lines I left the key turned a good 30 seconds to power on the pump while I checked for leaks. The car normally runs about 6 PSI, which it quickly got up to 6 PSI. But then it got up to 8 PSI so I ran and turned the power off not knowing if this is OK or not. Acccording to jet it could be getting too much fuel. Which I agree, as the spudder does not act l ike loss of fuel, but seems consitent with too much fuel.

(noob question alert) Shouldn't the pressure regulator keep the pressure from getting too high? Can I leave the pump on (say 1-2 minutes) without it eventually building too much pressure and something breaks?

Thanks for the help


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

If I'm looking at a new regulator, which would you rather have? Is the most expensive one worth it? I'm OK with the cost, so looking for quality and performace. Based on performance alone, which is better?

Edelbrock 1727 Edelbrock Fuel Pressure Regulators
Edelbrock 8190 - Edelbrock Competition Fuel Pressure Regulator Kits 
JEGS Performance Products 15912 - JEGS Street/Performance/Race Electric Fuel Pumps


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

What would be the problem with putting a stock mechanical pump on and ditch the regulator?


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't know, nobody told me to consider it I guess I assumed he put the electrical one on there for a reason. To new to all this to know the advatages...will have to look it up, lol.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

8 psi shouldn't be a problem unless there's an issue with the needle/seat(s) in the carb, in which case you'd be having a 'flooding' problem - overflowing the fuel bowls. When it starts happening, pull over quick and raise the hood --- do you smell lots of fuel?

Bubbling means there's an air leak somewhere allowing air into the line. I admit I've never watched fuel flow through a transparent filter like the one you have, but it seems a little odd to me to see any air-space in there at all. I'd expect it to be 100% full of fuel with the engine running. Have you given the section of line between the tank and the pump a real good looking over?

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

One thing I just remembered that might be important. When I pulled over and made that video I pulled the filter off the carb. There was a bunch of steam/smoke (kinda colorless smoke, hard to explain, but not color to it really) coming out the 4 holes, but stopped before I could get the camera ready...I's say 15 seconds at least. Engine was temping at 205 at the time.

I'm totally confused here. Everything I read about regulators says I need a fuel return line, which mine does not. 

So with the pump still running and the engine off, where is the pump putting this fuel with no return line?

Should the pressure remain when turned off? I read a sign of a bad regulator is the pressue instaly drops when turned off, which mine does, goes right to zero. Also read "Many a times, the engine starts, but stalls shortly after starting." and that happened to me as well, just not all the time.

Bear, I haven't followed the lines under the car except at the pump.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> One thing I just remembered that might be important. When I pulled over and made that video I pulled the filter off the carb. There was a* bunch of steam/smoke (kinda colorless smoke, hard to explain, but not color to it really) coming out the 4 holes*, but stopped before I could get the camera ready...I's say 15 seconds at least..


That's what I wanted to hear. Yep, too much fuel pressure and flooded the engine pushing fuel past your needle and seats. Smoke is the fuel dripping and boiling off in the carb. If it's smoking, it's dripping. There shouldn't be any smoke. Lower the pressure to 4.5 to 5 psi.. Yes, your regulator probably is bad and kicked the pressure up to 8.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks guys, ordering a new regulator now:cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Been reading some on another forum (I'm no expert on electric pumps). Ran across a thread where someone said that running an electric pump into/though a regulator that's not equipped with a return line puts a lot of stress on the pump and can cause them to fail --- showing a lot of the same symptoms you've been describing. If your system doesn't have a return/bypass line, you might consider adding one.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I'm going to try the regulator first, relatively cheap and easy to try.

No expert here either, but have read allot the last day or so. From my understanding, a return line is mainly used in fuel injection systems.

This is the pump/regulator in my car:
Summit Racing SUM-G3136-2 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Electric Fuel Pumps - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I ordered a rebuild kit for my carb too, just incase.

I guess the only way for me to really monitor this is with a fuel pressure gauge mounted inside the car.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

batman, I'm not one to judge, but summit products typically have little problems like this. I'd look into a different pump. likely either the regulator itself doesn't work right all the time, or your pump is surging for some reason bringing it past the 3lb it says up to it's max advertised of 14 which is pretty high for a carbed car from what I know....but then again, this if from a guy who is used to a 40-75 psi fuel line pressure. take it from the experts here. and I'll have to agree, you have a pressure overage drowning your motor out with fuel. I'd be willing to bet if you pulled your plugs right after it dies, they will show rich mixture condition.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

So what would be a better brand to get for a pump? I assume holley and summit are the same thing. If you look at the instructions for their regulator the text is almost identical with the company name swapped out. I bought the holley version this time, so he same thing that is already in there. If this fixes the problem I might try one of the higher dollar ones, assuming price reflects quality.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm with Rukee on this one. Run a stock mechanical pump on the street and enjoy many miles of happy, flood free motoring. Electric fuel pumps on street cars are a big 'ol waste of time and an excellent cause for grief for anything with less than about 500 horsepower. 3 or 4 psi is PLENTY.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

batman, most name brands should be just fine, summit's generic brand is usually rip offs of stuff that sort of worked, some things work fine....others not so much. it usually affects the quality. and I'm with these guys, a mechanical pump should work just fine, unless your like me, and the guy that built the motor didn't put an eccentric pulley on the cam. in other words, the pump just sits there and looks pretty. what is your motor combo? I might have a good pump if your interested, but it would depend on what your engine make and size is probably. but make sure you have that concentric pulley first.

the pump that was recommended to me by a guy that has been running one on his 67 camaro for some time now said this was a great product. I have no complaints so far. I was leary at first, but it fired right up with it. I have yet to drive the lemans with it though. just thought I'd throw it out there. I think your regulator may be a big part of the problem. 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-12S/Application/?prefilter=1

also note, I don't know what size your engine is, or power level is. the 67 camaro has a 327 in it and is very mild, it isn't a hotrod, but simply a driver. this is kind of what I was looking for as a temporary solution to work out some other kinks. later on, I will likely be putting a mechanical pump back on the car.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks for the info, I don't know if I have that pully. He put a different cam in it. Its a 455, not sure on HP. That pump is super noisy, I would love to ditch it. LOL

I'll try this new regulator first and see how things go. If I lower PSI down to 3-4 wouldn't I need to adjust the carb? If so, what should I look to adjust?


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

most likely since you were bleeding because of high pressure, run it at 4 and see how she does. I believe you will see good driveability and no more cough and dies like you were experiencing before. but I'll defer to the carb experts.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Carburetors are meant to run at 3 to 4 psi fuel pressure. There is no "adjustment" to compensate for this. Doesn't work that way. Huge, over- the- top electric fuel pumps on street cars are like STP stickers on a racecar: bling to look at, but pretty much useless.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I'll have to try 4.5 PSI, the lowest this regulator will go 

I thought I read somewhere if you lower the pressure you have to readjust the carb. I guess that doesn't mean the guy was right.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Seriously, if it were mine, I'd ditch the expensive electric crap and regulator and just put on a mechanical pump.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Anyone got a pic of where this stock pump is? I can find all kinds of pics of the pump, but not in the car. 

If 5 PSI max is all that is needed why on earth would the PO have it set to 6-7 PSI? And a pump that that puts out 14 PSI:willy:

I will try this new regulator first at 4.5 PSI, if it works, then it was an eazy fix. First sign of trouble and I'll convert it back to stock. I'll go ahead and buy the stuff I need now so it is on hand if I ever need it.

I really appreciate all your help:cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Anyone got a pic of where this stock pump is? I can find all kinds of pics of the pump, but not in the car.


Yep, right 'chere: http://www.garrettfamily.us/gto/images/IMG_3195.jpg

That's not a stock pump, but it's a stock _style_ mechanical pump in the stock location. Your motor probably has a little block off plate bolted on there to cover up the hole. There's another thing to be concerned about, and that's if the previous engine "assembler" had planned in advance to run an electric pump then there's a small chance he may have also left off the pump eccentric on the front of the cam shaft that drives the mechanical pump. If that's the case, then in order to run a mechanical pump you'll have to pull the timing cover and install one.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Batman, it only takes 3-4 psi to fill the float bowl(s). The float drops, the needle raises off of the seat, and allows fuel to flow into the bowl. When the float rises on top of the fuel in the bowl, it closes off the needle valve. Exactly like a toilet float and tank. IF you supplied 3000 psi water pressure to your toilet tank, would your toilet work any better? All it needs is regular water pressure to fill the tank. Same with the carb. Trying to force fuel at extreme pressures will just blow the needle off of the seat and cause fuel flooding, leakage, and possibly an engine fire.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

LOL, I belive you guys on the pressure. My new regulator will be here tomorrow and I'll set it to 4.5, the lowest setting.

I have no idea how the PO drove this car like this without seeing this problem or the re-start problem. More evidence that this poor thing was only at the strip. I'm still in disbelief that the PO lied so much...no way could I do that to someone. Do you think the fact he had NOS on here then removed it would cause issues? Maybe it needs a different tune when on NOS?

I guess the confusing part is reading all these contradicting posts (various sources using google). I've read Holley recommends 6.5-7 PSI and also read that the fuel should only be level with the bottom of the sight window.

I am also sure the PO didn't account for the old pump. Is it really worth it to pull the cover and buy and install all new fuel lines? No way would the fuel line I have reach to this stock location. I need to find someone to tune my valves, so I can have them do this conversion too.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I found this straight from Holley's website in the documentation for my carb. How do you set 2 different pressures? According to the documentation the PO had the idle pressure set correctly.

"IMPORTANT: An inline fuel filter is recommended during installation to prevent contaminants from entering your carburetor.Holley Universal inline fuel filters are designed for maximum filtration of foreign particles without restricting fuel flow to the carburetor. (Replacement element with Gasket—P/N 162-504) The 3/8” fuel line is recommended for high output engines. Check the fuel pump pressure for *6 psi at idle and at least 4 psi at top speed*"


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

dont confuse high performance tuning with drivability tuning. the pressure will drop when you are running wide open. so you set it a little high then it is where it needs to be running all out. but that can make it hard to start when its hot. a person looking for max performance wont likely care how it starts at the gas station. drivability tuning is a trade off. compromising a little max effort performance for better street manners.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

holley is telling you that 4 psi is optimal. you just have to start at 6 so that when it falls it will not be below 4. with the bigger fuel lines and more flow it takes a bigger pump to maintain the pressure at "top speed" for extended periods. i bet you spend more time cruising around than you do at top speed. so you need your settings to reflect that.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you know if that summit pump I have has an internal bypass? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the no return line thing. Jet told me it is OK to have the pump on without the engine running, but I'm wanting to understand if the pump is running with no return line what happens to the fuel it is pumping?


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

lots of people run them this way. the fuel cant go anywhere if the regulator is working right and adjusted properly. the bypass is more for fuel injection applications with extremely high pressures.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

66tempestGT said:


> ... it makes the pump work harder than it should..


So it stands to reason that with such an arrangement the pump isn't going to last as long.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Just to confirm, pump on, motor off, properly working regulator, PSI should remain at set level? So if I set it to 5 PSI, leave pump on 5 minutes (as an example, not that I would), PSI should never go higher than 5 PSI?

I'm installing the new regulator tonight and just want to be sure I am understanding what everyone is saying.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

i would think so but to what extent. 19 years instead of 20 or 1 year instead of 100? i dont know the answer to that.

btw i edited the other post before i saw this.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

BatmanGTO said:


> Just to confirm, pump on, motor off, properly working regulator, PSI should remain at set level? So if I set it to 5 PSI, leave pump on 5 minutes (as an example, not that I would), PSI should never go higher than 5 PSI?
> 
> I'm installing the new regulator tonight and just want to be sure I am understanding what everyone is saying.


a properly functioning regulator should not creep up ever.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks Shane, I'll let you guys know how the swap goes.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

66tempestGT said:


> i would think so but to what extent. 19 years instead of 20 or 1 year instead of 100? i dont know the answer to that.
> 
> btw i edited the other post before i saw this.


The point was, if this car has been running a "dead-headed" electric pump for a long time, there's at least a possibility that the pump is beginning to fail. Maybe what's going on is that as he drives it, the pump is getting hot from having to work so hard against the pressure and is giving up the ghost. Letting it sit awhile allows the pump to cool off and recover, and the bubbling he's seeing in the filter is coming from the pressure in the fuel line bleeding off while the pump isn't running. I'm not saying that's definitely it --- just one possibility that sort of fits the symptoms.

Even though it's certainly possible to run a dead-headed electric pump "for awhile", maybe even a long while if you happen to get lucky --- having a return line so that the pump doesn't have to work against the extra pressure is always going to be better for the pump in the long run. It's also going to help prevent vapor lock.

Bear


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

seems like you would need some kind of poppet valve or something if you were going to run a return line with a low pressure pump. a loop back to the tank would never build any pressure. not even enough to force any fuel through a regulator.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

What Bear says makes sense to me at least  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was 2 types of regulators, a straight pressure regulator and one with a bypass. I thought the bypass was only used once the set PSI was reached, then any fuel not needed would be returned.

Next step will be to get a pressure gauge I can see inside the car.

I think the pump was installed in 08.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

66TempestGT: stock Pontiac fuel systems like the one on my '67 run a fuel return line with a stock low pressure mechanical pump without any issues. The fuel return line is 1/4" i.d. So, plenty of fuel available at the carb, and cool fuel, too.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Bad news I installed the new regulator that looks identical to my old one, even the brand. With the screw all the way in or all the way out it is always at 9-9.5 PSI

No idea what I could have done wrong. The firs time I hooked it up and turned the key it sat at 4 PSI, but after I started it it jumped to 9 PSI. I tried to adjust while running but all I could manage was an increase to 9.5 PSI. I turned the car off and screwed it all the way out, still 9 PSI. Turn it off and screw it all the way in, STILL 9 PSI:confused

I'm lost here, don't want to put the old one back on, but at least it woks better than the new one:willy:

Here is what I got:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/12-803/10002/-1


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Take a look at Aeromotive Products for electric pumps and BYpass regulators. Robb Mc makes a great mechanical pump, but you must have the eccentric on the front of the camshaft. You are probably forcing fuel like others said. Either that, or the opposite, starving for fuel. Run the motor...when it quits, pull a plug and report the findings! Eric


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I decided to take it apart and put it back together. Must have did something, because now it responds to my changes. Now I'm idling at about 4.75 PSI. I had my mom come over to video it as I was revving so I gotta review the video to see how much it dipped. Another unexpected side effect was my car starts without flooring it, which you can't even imagine how happy I am about that:lol: It was the first time ever I could simply prime it and turn the key WITHOUT revving the crap out of it to keep it running. I didn't get a chance to drive it, but it seems to idle better and the pump don't sound like a jet engine no more.

Also worth noting is the PO used WHITE tape on the threads. Most of it was dissolved and almost entirely gone on one fitting. I decided to try this stuff out, only thing I found that actually said it was for gasoline. Seems to work pretty good so far.
ARP 100-9904 ARP Thread Sealer

So all is good at the moment:cheers


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

geeteeohguy said:


> 66TempestGT: stock Pontiac fuel systems like the one on my '67 run a fuel return line with a stock low pressure mechanical pump without any issues. The fuel return line is 1/4" i.d. So, plenty of fuel available at the carb, and cool fuel, too.


somehow i think the point has been lost here. of course a pump set up to operate with a return will do so properly. they also built cars with no return and they do fine as well. even though im sure that its capable of pumping far more than the engine can use at any given point. 
i was saying that adding a return line to his current set up was not going to make his car crank better. and adding it to a system not designed for it would be counterproductive.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

CONGRATS!! We took the long way around this to found out the carb was dripping, but now you got it! Smoke in the carb on shutdown is a bad thing. Your MPG will also be better, maybe 7.. Now you know that excess fuel pressure is a bad thing, but you have to have enough fuel pressure so it doesn't starve at WOT. The PO may have sold it because he couldn't get it running either and bailed on the project..
Oh, leave the traction bars on, there $300 a set and really good ones. And look cool. I have the same set on the shelf waiting to go on my 66, but I won't need them half as much as you do..:cheers


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I got a chance to review the video, I guess the idle is more like 4.85 PSI, I first slowly revved it to 4K, and I also revved it to 4K quickly, it never seems to get close to 4 PSI, I'd say 4.15 is as low as it got. I might go frame by frame to be sure, but I think I am good. And with my electronic temp gauge I should know pretty quick it she starts to run lean.

Thanks again guys for all the help, lets hope this fixes the problem. My rebuilt kit for the holley came as well so if a needle is clogged I got that covered too 

Here is a pic of the inside of the old pressure regulator:


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

good luck, sounds like you are on the right track.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Good work! Now go beat the nads out of it and make sure it is OK under pressure!arty: E


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Took it out today, seems to run OK. When cold I guess I do still have to feather the throttle a bit to keep it running, but at least it starts right up. When warm I just turn the key and it starts. I also don't see any bubbles in the filter or smoke from the carb. Now I just need to get a digital gauge for the oil, every time it moves I think the car is cutting out, lol. These manual gauges bounce around as bad as the fuel gauge.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

For having to feather the carb on start up. You don't have a choke, so yes, you are going to have to keep it running when cold. If you want a choke, we can swap, I'll send you my Holley 750, you send me that fancy race carb, lol.. The start up problem is going to get worse as it gets colder. Mechanical gauges tell you what's actually going on, so better in my opinion, except having to run hot oil into the car. The bubbles could have been because the carb was dripping and needle leaking, that makes sense.
Glad it's running better, and you are learning without any really hard lessons so far! :cheers


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

jetstang said:


> Mechanical gauges tell you what's actually going on, so better in my opinion, except having to run hot oil into the car.


So is it OK for the oil pressure to move around allot? For example every time I go over a bump. Even simply sitting still it will bounce around. I figured the mechanical gauges were like the old fuel gauge. Since that is kinda how it acts.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

It shouldn't move through vibration or impact, but will go 20 at idle to 40 at speed, or 60 with a high volume pump. Moves with RPM.
Fuel gauge moves with slosh, not a big deal.
Your throttle response should be a lot better now without it dripping.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I only ask because my oil pressure gauge moves allot, not just with RPM, which I knew. I'll have to get a video up. I never really notices it before, especially since I've been concentrating on manual shifting. I'm allot more relaxed now and to the point where I am shifting without thinking about it. So now I'm back to watching my gauges like I do in my automatic. If I go over a bump it with fluctuate a good 10 PSI. If I'm at a light it drops to 40, but I see it sometimes bounce down to 20-25. I did not hear any hint of the engine cutting out.

I'm buying a feeler gauge tonight and plan to attempt a valve adjustment. Do I need a bump starter or can I turn the crank by hand without removing the timing cover?

Thanks!


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

That is odd with the oil pressure gauge, what brand is it? I would say loose ground or power, but it's staight oil pressure, so probably just a cheap gauge. If you know it jumps around on bumps, don't worry about it till you want to fess up the money for the good one. 40 to 80 is really good, 20 is still fine. 
Good luck on the valve adjustment, you'll get it, just take your time. Put a rachet on the big crank bolt to rotate the motor. Or disconnect power from the coil and bump it to where you need it. If you do this, disco power from your fuel pump also, and you won't have any issues with flooding the engine. PO may have put a button under the hood to bump the starter, if not just use the key with a friend. If 1 valve is open, it's safe to adjust the other as it's on the base lobe of the cam. How are you adjusting them?
You cannot adjust it running or as a hydraulic..


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

What oil gauge would you buy? Anything under $150 is fine with me if I am getting a good one. (I sold my old 95 chevy so I got some extra cash to put into the goat).

As for adjusting the valves I hoped I could just turn the crank by hand with a wrench. RIght now I'm having trouble finding a gauge that has a .022 lash. I think this one will work.
JEGS Performance Products 80500 JEGS Feeler Gauges

Here is the video I plan to follow for the adjustment.





I was going to have someone do the adjustment, but I gotta learn it sooner or later. Not like my buddy will ever spare his precious time to help me. Still hasn't even come up to see the goat.

Any other tools you guys would recommend for this job?

Thanks!!!!

P.S. The PO didn't even change his own oil, so I doubt he would have adjusted the valves. I got all the receipts he had and he took it in for everything, wiper switch, light bulbs, oil, etc. He had all that other stuff installed too, he didn't do it.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

What brand of gauges do you have in the car now? Hate to not have gauge integrity, just looks tacky..
The PO had it built, hmm, figures.
That procedure for adjustment will work, and the feeler gauge set will work, I think you can get the same set at a local parts house.
For adjustment, There are procedures out there that say, "open intake on cylinder 1 and adjust 3i, 5i, and 7i, then rotate 45 degrees and adjust ... valves.. Way quicker than doing 1 at a time. Chiltons has the procedure in their books if you can find one, or get one off ebay. Beyond that a 1966 Chiltons is just cool to have. I have a 70 one.
Vintage: 1966 CHILTON'S AUTO REPAIR MANUAL. | eBay
That one may be beat, but you get the idea. Also Motors manuals are a great source, give you step by step for the mechanic.
MOTORS AUTO REPAIR MANUAL 1966 - 1972 - 35th EDITION | eBay
Back in the day before the internet, we actually read books, crazy stuff.. :cheers


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

LOL, yeah, nothing like a good book. While were at it, got a list of good manuals\books I should get for my 66?

I have one of these, seems there are several very similar models, so it might not be this exact one:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Auto+Meter/105/2397/10002/-1

Here is a pic with the new electrical one I installed for temp:


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

autogauge is autometers lower line. Autometer, stewart/warner, VDO are good gauges. If you replace the mechanical gauge, all you do is remove the line and hook it to your new gauge. Honestly, the motors manuals are the most comprehensive, chiltons are right behind them. You can probably use the big block chevy valve adjustment section to adjust your valves, you have to find a GM with the same firing order to adjust your valves, I don't know if Pontiac produced a solid cam car.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Cool, I can detach the gauge inside the car and hook the new one up? The temp gauge I had to pull the whole thing out. But wouldn't it seem more likely the sender is faulty than the gauge?

I was thinking about one of these:
Auto Meter 6121 Auto Meter Cobalt Gauges

Or to match my temp:
Auto Meter 6927 Auto Meter Digital Gauges


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Look on the back of the oil pressure gauge for a plastic line and brass fitting, if that is there then there is no sending unit, it just pumps oil into the gauge.
Those are nice gauges, either will work.


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