# Valley pan, gasket or no gasket



## 66CHEEVO (Jan 24, 2021)

Hi everyone, checking to see what the consensus is on their valley pan installation. Do most people use a gasket and silicone or just silicone. I was planning on using the gasket that came with my rebuild kit; however, I've watched several videos where people aren't using the gasket and only silicone. Im curious to see what people's experiences are. As always, thanks in advance 

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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Depending on the application I either use just silicone or I Gasgacinch the gasket to the pan and then use a light skim coat of Ultra Grey on the gasket when setting the pan in place. Usually use the Gasgacinch when using the stock cover and use just the Ultra Grey when using the solid aluminum piece since it almost always has a wave or two and the silicone seals these up better. Whenever I just use silicone I make a wish that I'm not the one having to take the valley pan back off because it is a bear to separate the pan and clean the surfaces.


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## RJBascom (16 d ago)

You need to be pretty careful when using silicone with a gasket as it can cause the gasket to slip out of place before the silicone dries.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

66CHEEVO said:


> Hi everyone, checking to see what the consensus is on their valley pan installation. Do most people use a gasket and silicone or just silicone. I was planning on using the gasket that came with my rebuild kit; however, I've watched several videos where people aren't using the gasket and only silicone. Im curious to see what people's experiences are. As always, thanks in advance
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


IMO... ALWAYS!!!!!!!! Use the pan gasket and Permatex Ultra Grey!!!!! It's too much work to take chances with!!!! 

I would NEVER use silicone, with or without a gasket.

Also, some lifters might require the gasket, for clearance.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

lust4speed said:


> Depending on the application I either use just silicone or I Gasgacinch the gasket to the pan and then use a light skim coat of Ultra Grey on the gasket when setting the pan in place. Usually use the Gasgacinch when using the stock cover and use just the Ultra Grey when using the solid aluminum piece since it almost always has a wave or two and the silicone seals these up better. Whenever I just use silicone I make a wish that I'm not the one having to take the valley pan back off because it is a bear to separate the pan and clean the surfaces.


Ive never had luck with silicone, and Ive had 100% luck with Ultra Grey... your experience far exceeds mine, so Im curious, what brand/ formulation do you use, when using silicone?

I use a Wagner PCV valve, so I have a bit of a buffer.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

armyadarkness said:


> IMO... ALWAYS!!!!!!!! Use the pan gasket and Permatex Ultra Grey!!!!! It's too much work to take chances with!!!!
> 
> I would NEVER use silicone, with or without a gasket.
> 
> Also, some lifters might require the gasket, for clearance.


THIS. Make sure the pan rails are straight and flat by peening them if need be against a hard edge of a workbench, anvil, etc. I use Gaskasinch or similar to hold the gasket to the pan, let it cure, and then a good permatex or Toyota or Right Stuff gasket former/sealer. And I use the sealer under the two bolt heads, too. And do NOT over-tighten and distort the pan and gasket. Finesse gets it done. Silicone sealer has NO place around an engine, in my years of experience. Unless you are striving for oil leaks and clogged oil passages. It's good for that. The only thing I hate worse is white lithium grease (should be called mortar).


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

What silicone does ye speak of? Everything mentioned so far except for Gasgacinch is a silicone. so clarify THIS. what ever that means.


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## 66CHEEVO (Jan 24, 2021)

67ventwindow said:


> What silicone does ye speak of? Everything mentioned so far except for Gasgacinch is a silicone. so clarify THIS. what ever that means.


When I mentioned silicone in my original post I was referring to Permatex Ultra Black or Ultra Grey


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## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

I bought an aftermarket valley pan from inline tube. I had to trim a lot to get it to fit correctly. Ultra black worked great for me and give it time to set up and dry fully.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

67ventwindow said:


> What silicone does ye speak of? Everything mentioned so far except for Gasgacinch is a silicone. so clarify THIS. what ever that means.


The RTV red or blue or clear stuff that smells like vinegar. Avoid it. You want the grey or black stuff mentioned previously.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> The RTV red or blue or clear stuff that smells like vinegar. Avoid it. You want the grey or black stuff mentioned previously.


 Then maybe we are using that wrong. If they could get it to smell like pickles you can put some in the ducts. Love to smell fried pickles all day. Time to go home. Man I am hungry.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

geeteeohguy said:


> The RTV red or blue or clear stuff that smells like vinegar. Avoid it. You want the grey or black stuff mentioned previously.


So this good? No vinegar smell..I hate vinegar and things pickled in it 😉


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Here's an internet article I found on sealants, didn't fact check it just sharing it. https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/18377/red-vs-black-vs-grey-rtv-whats-in-a-color


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

I've had a couple interesting conversations with the reps selling the Permatex products. They state that both the red and blue have long been superseded by better formulations but too many people demand those products so they keep making them.

I have personal preferences that seem to work for me from my own experience, but your mileage may differ. I use Ultra Grey when I need a silicone sealer. It really likes to stick to itself and I've never had it come loose and float around inside the engine. I also like it because the grey color is pretty close to Pontiac Metallic Blue and it blends in better on outside gasket mating surfaces than the Ultra Black. The Ultra Grey while sticking very well to itself is somewhat easier to remove from surfaces than Ultra Black when you do a refresh. The winner for sticking things together way too permanently is The Right Stuff. If you want to bond things together and make it absolutely hell for the next person to remove use this. I also find that while I'm using a lot of sealant fairly regular, The Right Stuff would solidify in the tube or pressure can between builds and have to be tossed. Between the higher initial cost and having to throw away a bunch I gave up on it.

Absolutely the worse stuff to use is clear silicone sealer because it comes loose in an engine. I've lost count of the engines I've tore down that had feet of spaghetti sucked up against the oil pump pickup screen. Imagine a thin bead of silicone around the perimeter of the pan being dislodged by hot oil and dropping down like a huge thin O-ring. The blue silicone is a close runner up and have found almost as much loose blue silicone streamers in the engine. Third runner up is the red high temp silicone when used for assembly because it also comes loose and floats around. I've also taken engines apart where the red silicone was still a gooey mess years later.

Also agree that white lithium grease is terrible stuff. It's like what the hell were they thinking?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

66CHEEVO said:


> When I mentioned silicone in my original post I was referring to Permatex Ultra Black or Ultra Grey


I thought you meant 100% Blue Goo! That's why I was worried.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> The RTV red or blue or clear stuff that smells like vinegar. Avoid it. You want the grey or black stuff mentioned previously.


Agreed. I was using the term "Silicone", generically to describe Permatex blue goo.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

If it's the Permatex blue that looks chalky or matte, it's fine. If it's the darker shiny stuff that smells like vinegar, it's not optimal. Unless you like leaks and oiling passages to clog.


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## Bopman (7 mo ago)

armyadarkness said:


> Agreed. I was using the term "Silicone", generically to describe Permatex blue goo.


Our mechanics instructor in high school told use to use only enough permatex to make gasket sticky. Told us to rub it into the gasket so to speak, just enough to hold it in place. Or use a Hi-tach spray. And if that wouldn't seal then there was a mating problem somewhere. 🤔🤔🤔 He passed away some years back but has left his mark on me for sure !!! Think about him all the time !!


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