# Motor Trouble....Please Help



## sutliffhl21 (Feb 19, 2006)

I have an 06 GTO. It has 20k miles on it. A few weeks ago, I noticed a slight ticking coming from under the car. I thought it was an exsaust leak, so I figured no problem. I let a buddy hear it, and we checked the oil. We had to add 4 quarts of oil to get it to the full line on the dip stick. I figured that the noise would go away, since the motor had good power and everything. I am not one to baby it, but I do run it. I take the rpm's around the 4/12 to 5 mark at times. I'm not going to B.S anyone hear, I change the oil myself, but do slip and miss the 3k mile mark at times since I put more than 3k miles on a month, lol. Last night, I was coming down my road, andthe motor started rapping EXTREMELY bad, and I parked it. This morning, I drove it to mechanic's whick is a skip away from my house. as I was pulling in the parking lot, the rapping got worse, the car shut down and smoke started coming from the hood. when I tried to start it, it just cliks and dosnt even turn over. There wasnt any oil on the ground and the the engine still had plenty of oil. There was a small amount of metal shavings on the dipstick, almost a metalic look to the oil on the dipstick. I had it towed to the dealer this afternoon, and they're supposed to look into it tomorrow....supposed to anyway. I dont know what happend to it, and will GM cover it under warranrty? I'm suspecting they wont. And if they dont, can the dealer just fix what happend to it, so I dont have to shell out thousands of dollars for a motor? I had warranty work done on it a few months ago due to a tranny synchro failure. I dont know if they can just rebuild it, or what? If anyone knows of any salvage yards that have any, please let me know. I', just really lost for words and anyone's help would be appreciated.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

damm sry to hear this dude. did you have your sched mant done to your goat over the last 18,000 miles? if you dont have docs that you had all your sched mant then they will more than likely stick it to you if the engine needs to be replace


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## MLegere (Mar 25, 2006)

Well first off dont admit to anyone at the dealer the you ran the car with only 2 quarts of oil it...................... Good Luck


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## sutliffhl21 (Feb 19, 2006)

No, I always do my oil changes, etc by myself. Can the dealer tell if there was low oil in it? I have a feeling i'm going to be paying for a replacement engine


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## Holden (Sep 10, 2005)

3 yrs bumper to bumper they should do an out of the box exchange. I was just reading a TSB for Motor Exchange on 05s. Do a search on 06s

Make : PONTIAC	Model : GTO	Year : 2005
Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP. 
Service Bulletin Num : 040601025	Date of Bulletin: MAR 01, 2005
NHTSA Item Number: 10011204 
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Summary: 
EXCHANGE PROGRAM FOR 2005 MODEL YEAR ENGINES. *TT UPDATE. *TT 

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/results.cfm


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## Holden (Sep 10, 2005)

Stand your ground but try not to piss off anyone. They can claim whatever they want but if you drove 2 wks on full oil should not look new. There is no way to tell if O/P went away or what. No gauge and no lights came on just started to make noise then quit!


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

sutliffhl21 said:


> No, I always do my oil changes, etc by myself. Can the dealer tell if there was low oil in it? I have a feeling i'm going to be paying for a replacement engine


:agree *I NO NOTHING*


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## UdnUdnGTO (Jan 30, 2006)

If you are changing your oil anywhere around 3,000, you are fine. Whether you do it or anyone else. Where the dickens is all that oil going? There is no reason for it to use oil like that. There was a problem before all this came up and you got a legit claim. Go for it. Anyway, 06 GTO s come with synthetic. Why are you changing it so often???


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## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

sutliffhl21 said:


> I have an 06 GTO. It has 20k miles on it. A few weeks ago, I noticed a slight ticking coming from under the car. I thought it was an exsaust leak, so I figured no problem. I let a buddy hear it, and we checked the oil. We had to add 4 quarts of oil to get it to the full line on the dip stick. I figured that the noise would go away, since the motor had good power and everything. I am not one to baby it, but I do run it. I take the rpm's around the 4/12 to 5 mark at times. I'm not going to B.S anyone hear, I change the oil myself, but do slip and miss the 3k mile mark at times since I put more than 3k miles on a month, lol. Last night, I was coming down my road, andthe motor started rapping EXTREMELY bad, and I parked it. This morning, I drove it to mechanic's whick is a skip away from my house. as I was pulling in the parking lot, the rapping got worse, the car shut down and smoke started coming from the hood. when I tried to start it, it just cliks and dosnt even turn over. There wasnt any oil on the ground and the the engine still had plenty of oil. There was a small amount of metal shavings on the dipstick, almost a metalic look to the oil on the dipstick. I had it towed to the dealer this afternoon, and they're supposed to look into it tomorrow....supposed to anyway. I dont know what happend to it, and will GM cover it under warranrty? I'm suspecting they wont. And if they dont, can the dealer just fix what happend to it, so I dont have to shell out thousands of dollars for a motor? I had warranty work done on it a few months ago due to a tranny synchro failure. I dont know if they can just rebuild it, or what? If anyone knows of any salvage yards that have any, please let me know. I', just really lost for words and anyone's help would be appreciated.



Hmmm. Whatever happened to the motor I think it is a safe assumption that it is toast. 

With the oil having a metalic look to it, it sounds like a piston has galled in a cylinder and what you are seeing is shavings off the side of one or more pistons. A sure sign of a galled piston is the engine heating up and most times boiling the water prior to seizure. A spun main or rod bearing is also a possibility and can cause seizure but rarely will a spun bearing put enough metal shavings in the oil to be readily seen without a bright light. I think the knock you heard was probably a piston trying to seize in the cylinder bore. On the other hand, if you had no major heating issues prior to the engine locking up, most likely it will be a spun main bearing leading to rod bearing failure.

I would think you would have no issues with the warrenty replacing the engine in your goat but as has been advised before, don't elaborate too much to the dealership on your maintenance habits. In my opinion maintenance is not an issue here anyway as 3,000, 4000 or even 5000 miles between changes will not ruin a motor in 20,000 miles. If you are running synthetic oil, the change interval can be even longer without unduly jeapordizing engine life.

Sorry to hear about this but I believe the warrenty will take care of it. -Jim


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

tell them to put a LS7 in it for 3,000 or your own money:willy:


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

Hell yeah, if I had engine problems and had to get it replaced anyway, I'd see if they'd upgrade me to a LS7 if I paid the difference, that would kick ass, even if it voided your warranty!! 
I suspect it would be quite difficult to talk them into that, but if you could, you'd be DA MAN! 
If, for some odd reason, they DON'T cover the engine, you can usually find an LS2 semi-cheaply, I wouldn't buy it from the dealer unless you like getting slammed in the wallet. You may even be able to upgrade to a 408ci LS2 or an LS7.
I would expect them to cover it though, I'd expect a little bit of hassle beforehand, but they'll probably come through for you.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

> I wouldn't buy it from the dealer unless you like getting slammed in the azz.


 :lol:


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## sutliffhl21 (Feb 19, 2006)

well, I just came from the dealer. The guy told me that there was 4 quarts too much oil in the motor. When we checked the oil, it took 4 quarts of oil to even bring the oil on to the dipstick, now they're telling me that there is 4 quarts too much. How the H*ll could this be happening. I'm thinking the damage was caused by not enough oil, and if there was too much oil, that could also cause problems. But could that cause the motor to blow up like that? So, if there is too much oil in it, that still doesnt explain how the motor was making a small noise to begin with. The guy at the dealer told me today that GM will be at the dealership tomorrow and the first thing they're going to do is to change the oil and make sure there is the right amount of oil in it. He said that they didnt hook it up to the computer yet however. What will the compter tell them. I run the rpm's, but I didnt think I would blow it up. the guy at the dealer just told me to relax. So, I dont know what trouble i'm in for.


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

The computer is not going to tell them squat and further more an engine with 4qts too much oil will run horrible due to the crank journals splashing in the overfull crankcase.


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

sutliffhl21 said:


> well, I just came from the dealer. The guy told me that there was 4 quarts too much oil in the motor. When we checked the oil, it took 4 quarts of oil to even bring the oil on to the dipstick, now they're telling me that there is 4 quarts too much. How the H*ll could this be happening. I'm thinking the damage was caused by not enough oil, and if there was too much oil, that could also cause problems. But could that cause the motor to blow up like that? So, if there is too much oil in it, that still doesnt explain how the motor was making a small noise to begin with. The guy at the dealer told me today that GM will be at the dealership tomorrow and the first thing they're going to do is to change the oil and make sure there is the right amount of oil in it. He said that they didnt hook it up to the computer yet however. What will the compter tell them. I run the rpm's, but I didnt think I would blow it up. the guy at the dealer just told me to relax. So, I dont know what trouble i'm in for.


Well, I guess I'd have had to be there, but one thing I've noticed with this car as well as others is that it can be misleading to get an accurate reading if I shut the engine off, pop the hood, and check the oil immediatly. Sometimes I get streaks of oil so far up the dipstick it is impossible to tell, and at other times, it looks like there is little or no oil. I found that if I just let it sit a few minutes, I will get an accuarate reading, so now, I fill up, pay, and check the oil last when I fill up. No, I don't do it every fill-up with my 180,000 mile Bonneville, but this GTO gets checked every time I fill up.

Other than that, I know of nothing that will "hold" four quarts of oil in an engine undetected. As far as the over-filling goes, I've heard that you will blow the main seals by doing so, BUT that is just from my "shade tree" mechanic's knowledge I picked up from who knows where. I may be wrong, but the fact that it was overfilled, IMHO, did not cause your problem. At this point though, I'd say that you might have a pretty hard time not coming clean with them about putting in the extra four.

Good luck man...I'd be sick if that happened to me.

Gerry


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## GTOGuy (Jun 10, 2005)

I had a motor problem as well at about 6000 miles. There was a small tick and the check oil light kept coming on. My brother is a Pontiac tech at the dealership I bought the car from and we checked the oil and it was full. He took it in and did some further check and the oil pump was bad. The service manager upped my motor warranty to 60,000 miles and they replaced the oil pump, not the whole thing, and it has run fine ever since. But before the check oil light ever came on there was a small tick.


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## sutliffhl21 (Feb 19, 2006)

Will the computer tell them what rpm's the motor was driven, speed, etc? I dont drive it like a grandma grocery getter and just dont want gm to try to cry abuse b/c it saw high rpm's at times. I hope this is a dealer that will b.s their way through it so they get it covered, if thats at all possible. I'm hoping that because theres only 20k on the motor, they will fix/replace it. Who knows these days though.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

the puter will not tell them what rpm's you been driving unless they have a black box with gps. not in auzz. dont worry about them finding codes. they may try and bs you tho


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## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

This is getting interesting. Too much oil in the engine will make it run very sluggishly and cause oil to seep out around both front and rear main bearing seals along with causing the oil temp to go way up. Why your dipstick indicated little or no oil at first and later on four quarts over initially seems to be a total mystery. Some oil will remain in the upper part of the engine immediately after shutdown but not 4 quarts. I assume you guys were sure that you inserted the dipstick all the way in? 

Without looking at the motor, at this point, I think it could be possible that the dipstick tube had become partially dislodged out of the engine block. This would explain the initial low oil reading. This also could be an explanation for the pecking noise you heard initially because the dipstick could have been contacting the crankshaft or one of the rods. If this is the case, it seems that the dealership would have noticed the loose dipstick tube when they checked the oil.

As I said, this is getting interesting and I am curious to find out how all this shakes out in the end. If my current theory is true, it just could be possible you still have a viable engine but in light of the miles on your car, I believe I would argue for a replacemnt motor. Good luck. -Jim


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## sutliffhl21 (Feb 19, 2006)

Well, the dealer just called me today. He said that GM was there today to look at the engine, and it looks like the headgasket went, along with the rest of the engine. Now, the thing is, the dealer know's darn well that the headgasket wasnt a source of this problem, sure it might have blown after the fact, but it wasnt the casue. The dealer told the gm rep that it was the head gasket that went, causing the motor to overheat, which in turn led to the other problems. The GM rep bought it and told the dealer to do a "cost analysis" on the engine to see if the can rebuild it or just outright replace it. So, I guess this is good news anyway.


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## KC.MO.GTO (Jul 7, 2006)

My car had a tick when I bought it and now has 800 miles. The car has been at dealer for 8 days now to replace all lifters. I wish they would hurry since the rental truck im in loves fuel


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## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

sutliffhl21 said:


> Well, the dealer just called me today. He said that GM was there today to look at the engine, and it looks like the headgasket went, along with the rest of the engine. Now, the thing is, the dealer know's darn well that the headgasket wasnt a source of this problem, sure it might have blown after the fact, but it wasnt the casue. The dealer told the gm rep that it was the head gasket that went, causing the motor to overheat, which in turn led to the other problems. The GM rep bought it and told the dealer to do a "cost analysis" on the engine to see if the can rebuild it or just outright replace it. So, I guess this is good news anyway.


A rebuilt engine is just that- a rebuilt engine. Personally I would (if they start talking about repairing the blown engine) start stomping my foot emphatically and insist they replace it with a new engine. A GTO is not exactly a cheap car and for the money paid, a customer should expect no less. After all 20,000 miles is not a lot of miles and an engine should not fail that quickly.

If the engine is rebuilt, I can almost assure you that it will not last for as many miles as the original motor would have had it not blown. For one, the block has been hot and most likely is out of tolerance as compared to a new block. Plus they probably will machine the heads but they too have been hot. The metal has been heat stressed and over time will relax resulting in a warped head and a possible blown head gasket again. 

I would insist on a new engine. -Jim


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

sutliffhl21 said:


> Well, the dealer just called me today. He said that GM was there today to look at the engine, and it looks like the headgasket went, along with the rest of the engine. Now, the thing is, the dealer know's darn well that the headgasket wasnt a source of this problem, sure it might have blown after the fact, but it wasnt the casue. The dealer told the gm rep that it was the head gasket that went, causing the motor to overheat, which in turn led to the other problems. The GM rep bought it and told the dealer to do a "cost analysis" on the engine to see if the can rebuild it or just outright replace it. So, I guess this is good news anyway.


Does your car have mods ?Headers and other exhaust because if the dipstick tube was removed and reinstalled wrong I think Cottonfarmer is probabaly right.If thats the case and they correct you engine problem you need to send them Christmas cards and buy from them in the future because they are taking care of you for sure.Hope it all works to your favor.


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

EEZ GOAT said:


> tell them to put a LS7 in it for 3,000 or your own money:willy:


Excellent idea. :agree


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## Topp171 (Dec 17, 2011)

KC.MO.GTO How much does it cost to change out the lifters? I am hearing a small tick in my 2006 and I think it is the lifters


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## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

Holy 6 year thread necromancy, Batman!

You probably won't get an answer from him.


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## Topp171 (Dec 17, 2011)

Ha yeah I saw that right after I posted...oops


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## antirice (Jun 29, 2009)

I have had tapping at startup for about 3 years, it seems to quiet down once heated up. I assumed it was normal, am I just ignoring a potential problem?


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## 06BLACKGTO64 (Oct 30, 2010)

if its just at startup and first few seconds of it running than you should be ok. the oil needs to be pumped before the top end is fully oiled, so you will hear a tick


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

antirice said:


> I have had tapping at startup for about 3 years, it seems to quiet down once heated up. I assumed it was normal, am I just ignoring a potential problem?


Some report piston slap. That is louder than a tick tick tick. Some state it happens often some occasional. I had my car from new since 2005 and its only happened once. Once in a while I get a slight ticking but it goes away quickly, same as many reported in years past. 

Cold motor the oil isn't warmed, once warmed it quiets down. 3 years? IMO you are ok... keep an eye on the oil level and service regularly.


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