# 65 pontiac resto questions



## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

hi everyone
this winter I plan on installing a floor shift with cable assy in my 65 and a floor steering column. what is currently installed is hardly worth mentioning (terrible hack job and NOT SAFE) I have next to no experience with automatics. any insight would be greatly helpful. thanks Nate


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

What is your current set-up? Auto, 3 or 4 speed? Floor or column?


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

current set up is this. pontiac 400 to a th400. the shift steering column is still in the car until this winter when i can get on to replacing it. the current shifter is a mix match of parts that a previous owner mashed together. mechanical linkage to the tranny. no ratchet or neutral safety switch which makes it very unsafe thus the reason for a new one.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

I would look for the 67 dual gate console set up for the th400 or you may be able to do a 3 speed automatic conversion kit for a 65 or 66 console. I may have a new th400 tranny cable and a new neutral safety switch in my left over parts. I'll look tomorrow and let you know,


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## my62toy (Jul 15, 2009)

You can modify your existing column shift steering column to floor shift by removing the "sleeve" that has your linkage connected to at the bottom and your column shifter connected to at the top. Not a difficult process. Then you will need to find a "cup" for the upper column where today you have the actual shifter. Not a big deal to do any of that.

I have a TH400 in my 65 as well. I found an original style 65 auto shifter and 65 style console, and modified the shifter with a kit from Shift Works. Their kit is designed to do exactly this, It has all the parts you need, including the shift cable, to convert your 65 style shifter to drive the 3 speed TH400. Works like a charm. 

Have fun. These are easy projects.


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

wow appreciate the help guys. so my65toy what you are saying is that an original auto floor shifter will not directly hook up the the th400 and needs a shifter kit. how much do those run? I thought about modifying my column but I have a line on a straight floor column with the wiring and all. on top of that my turn signal components are all mess up I dont even know if i have all the parts. getting another one would just be easier for me. 

Randy thanks for the info and the parts search look forward to hearing back from you. 
oh yeah and if you happen to have a kick down switch I would be interested in that too.


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## my62toy (Jul 15, 2009)

ride400 said:


> . so my65toy what you are saying is that an original auto floor shifter will not directly hook up the the th400 and needs a shifter kit. how much do those run?


Shift kit from Shiftworks (585-383-0574) was about $140 plus shipping from Rochester, NY. Remember, your going from a 2 speed auto in 65 to a 3 speed TH400. The kit includes everything you will need, including the plastic lense showing the 3 forward gears, cable to connect, mounting brackets to hold the cable to the floor and the transmission, everything. You will not need anything else. Great kit.


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

thanks for the info. I was just on the sight seems like a real professional company and product. as far as the wiring is concerned. which i have non of hoked up right now. the shifter encompasses the neutral safety, reverse light and what else ......


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

on another note, I just finished wiring up my dash lights and found them to be very dim! I know i should replace my head light switch and that the rheostat is pretty much junk. is there a brighter alternative to the conventional dash light bulbs? led maybe.......same question about brighter tail lights the 1157 are very dim with the tail light lenses being so large?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The lights are pleanty bright enough on my `65. Might wanna check the ground to the body or something? Or verify you have the full 12v at the dash/tail lights?


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

thanks I think the head light switch needs to be replaced. that should cure the prob. 




05GTO said:


> I would look for the 67 dual gate console set up for the th400 or you may be able to do a 3 speed automatic conversion kit for a 65 or 66 console. I may have a new th400 tranny cable and a new neutral safety switch in my left over parts. I'll look tomorrow and let you know,


what makes the 67 dual gate console set up different?


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

removed the old steering column and am almost ready to install the new floor shift column. Im waiting to hear back about a 2nd gen camaro power-steering box. I understand that they have a 2 turn from center to lock and 4 turn from lock to lock has anybody else heard of doing this conversion? either way it leaks all over the place.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Why not replace with the correct gear box?


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Ride, I will post some pics of a 67 GTO console set up for a his/hers shift later today. I am charging the camera batteries now.....:cheers


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

Eric Animal said:


> Ride, I will post some pics of a 67 GTO console set up for a his/hers shift later today. I am charging the camera batteries now.....:cheers


that would be great! the was looking at the tunnel and dont see any place for the cable to pass through. maybe i have to cut one? :confused



Rukee said:


> Why not replace with the correct gear box?


what is the correct gear box for the car? i dint know. the one i have in now has mounts for 4 bolts and is only using 3 of those four. could be the wrong one in there now i dont know. was the original a 4 turn? i believe it was.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

NAPA lists both a quick steer (2 1/2-3 turns lock to lock) part #NSP 88277060 and a normal one (4 turns lock to lock) part #NSP 88277088 for $220.15 list. Both have the 4 mounting bolt holes.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

1964-1972 models rebuilt power steering gearbox. 3 turns lock-to-lock. PRICE MAY CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. CALL FOR PRICING. 
$139.00 
Fast ratio power steering gearbox for 1964-1972 GTO models. PRICE MAY CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. CALL FOR PRICING. 
$135.00 
year one


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Went with 67 dual gate in my 64 cause they just look better. Still used a 64 console so then had to make a top plate with the ribs to match rest of console top and lid. It came out real nice need to get pics and post them oneday...


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

got the quick steer box the other day and painted up. working on the steering colum right now and ready to go in will post some pics.


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

well its been a while since my last post. time for an update. steering colum and shifter are installed. 

im currently working on the driver vent window. the stud for the swing arm is busted off so im replacing the whole assembly. any ideas on how to remove it?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

ride400 said:


> well its been a while since my last post. time for an update. steering colum and shifter are installed.
> 
> im currently working on the driver vent window. the stud for the swing arm is busted off so im replacing the whole assembly. any ideas on how to remove it?


In order to remove the vent window I'm 90% sure you have to remove the door glass and upper door trim (inner and outer) to have enough room to maneuver the vent window out.


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

I was just out looking it over and it seems I have the wrong replacement part and a passenger side handle. haha the search continues.


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## 6T5GOAT (Nov 23, 2008)

To get the assembly out, you have to remove the door panel and I think there are 5 screws to remove the vent window assembly. You may have to loosen the slide on the rear of the roll up window to move it back to remove and replace the vent window. Mine came out somehow with the roll up window in place but it would not go back in until I moved the roll up window back. Good luck!


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

thanks for the info. I just need to find the right parts now. When I bought the car it had more than a few missing parts. Although what it did come with is a 69' 350 locked solid and full of water. I pulled the heads off to inspect for cracks and did not find any. I really need to have a shop clean them and test or me. The heads are original to the block for a 69' 350. I have a 75' firebird 400 under the hood right now. Im not very impressed with the performance of the engine. I was thinking of replacing the heads on the 400 now with the 350 heads, if they are any good. thoughts..... bad idea or what


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

On another note what are your thoughts on amp gage vs a volt gage? Im trying to decide on which one to install?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

ride400 said:


> I have a 75' firebird 400 under the hood right now. Im not very impressed with the performance of the engine. I was thinking of replacing the heads on the 400 now with the 350 heads, if they are any good. thoughts..... bad idea or what


Probably a bad idea. If those really are '69 heads, then the combustion chamber volume is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 72 cc's (72 cc's is the nominal value but the actual volumes are known to vary some, so you won't know for sure unless you measure them yourself). With factory pistons in a 400, the resulting static compression ratio is going to be too high for today gas using iron heads. It's possible to run those heads but it will very likely have detonation problems unless you also do something else to lower the compression ratio. That usually means swapping to a set of dished pistons or having dishes cut into your existing pistons. 

Before you start down that road I highly recommend spending some time thinking about what your overall goals for the car are and how you're going to use it along with whatever you think is a reasonable budget. Then contact a reputable engine builder and lay out a plan. I personally really like Jim Lehart at Central Virginia Machine Services. He helped me plan the motor I've built for my 69 GTO and I'm very happy with the results.

Be very wary of people who want to tell you what to do without taking the time to find out how you plan to use the car and how much you want to spend to get there.

Bear


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

ok I am trying to wire my wipers from scratch and dont have much to go on. I have the wiring diagram but its not much help. can someone tell me how the switch operates? off hi low and fluid. If someone with a working set up could describe the operation it would be a great help. thanks Nate


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

BearGFR said:


> Probably a bad idea. If those really are '69 heads, then the combustion chamber volume is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 72 cc's (72 cc's is the nominal value but the actual volumes are known to vary some, so you won't know for sure unless you measure them yourself). With factory pistons in a 400, the resulting static compression ratio is going to be too high for today gas using iron heads. It's possible to run those heads but it will very likely have detonation problems unless you also do something else to lower the compression ratio. That usually means swapping to a set of dished pistons or having dishes cut into your existing pistons.
> 
> Before you start down that road I highly recommend spending some time thinking about what your overall goals for the car are and how you're going to use it along with whatever you think is a reasonable budget. Then contact a reputable engine builder and lay out a plan. I personally really like Jim Lehart at Central Virginia Machine Services. He helped me plan the motor I've built for my 69 GTO and I'm very happy with the results.
> 
> ...


Bear 
I took your advice and bought a book on building performance pontiac v8 engines. what a big help thanks.


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

On a bad note. I have began looking the amount of body work that will be needed down the road and found a hole in my passenger door. I investigated further by removing the inner door panel and found the lower skin has been replaced once already. I will post come pics.


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

the passenger door.

I was hoping there would be very little body work needed. you can see form the inside where the spot wields have been filled in. I would like to find a replacement door if possible. spares anyone?????


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

probably gonna wanna check the rocker panel and fender while your at it if the door was rusted out in that area. Really won't know until you grind out the old work. at that stage on mine now, no surprises yet (fingers crossed)

Brian

http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/g372/instg8ter/1966 Tempest/


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## ride400 (Jun 16, 2009)

Its been a while since my last update so here it is. 

my 65 leamns was original with air conditioning noted form the vin # although had none of the components when I purchased t he car. So I recently bought many of the missing pieces of the system, pump, evap, lines and such. the only piece i am missing now is the heat exchanger. I have no ecperience with a/c any help would be great. My question to you is what do I do to convert over to 135a? I have read numerous articles on this but am not sure yet what I need to do. 
hopefully I can use most of the original parts. 
thanks !


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

ride400 said:


> ...... what do I do to convert over to 135a? I have read numerous articles on this but am not sure yet what I need to do.
> hopefully I can use most of the original parts.
> thanks !


You'll find lots of differing opinions, but from what I understand the key is to make sure you thoroughly flush the old system to remove all traces of the R12 compatible oil. This means you'll need to purchase a new receiver/dryer, because you can't really get all the oil of of them. I've also heard you need to replace the factory POA valve (if it has one) with one of the orifice tube conversion kits, or at least have your POA re-calibrated to work with R134a. I've also heard the POA conversion kits don't work worth a darn. I know that you can't get new POA valves any more unless you happen to find someone who has a NOS one, and expect to pay obscene prices if you do.

The other school of thought is to not convert it and continue to run R12, as long as the system is otherwise in good condition and _doesn't leak_ (the cost of R12 is hideous, and you have to be licensed to buy it.)

My 69 is a factory air car too, and I have all the original A/C components, but after considering all the above plus the added wrinkle that my cam doesn't make enough manifold vacuum at idle to reliably operate all the system's doors and valves, I decided to go with an aftermarket replacement system from Classic Auto Air. I'm just now working through the install, so I'll let you know how it goes. So far, I've already had to re-engineer the compressor brackets because they're designed to run off the alternator pulley, using a longer belt. Since my car already had the A/C pulley on the crank, I decided I wanted to drive the compressor off that instead, so that meant I had to modify the brackets to move the compressor "back" approximately an inch.

Bear


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Look at envirosafe and freeze 12. I got mine on Ebay. They are a bit more then regular 134a in price. This stuff is R12 replacemnet and is way more compatible with older systems. I have done this to 3 cars so far and over a 134a replacement the combo of freeze12 and envirosafe I got the A/C down to 40degs at the vent. My truck was R12 I had to replace the condenser. I replaced it with 134a, then a year later I replaced that with the Combo. It was as cold as the R12 use to get once again. I use 2 cans of envirosafe and 1 can freeze12. I replace the dryer and o-rings (134a safe ones). The orifice tube is ok to replace, but you don't have to. Be vary careful when pulling it out. They can get logged in there and run the evaporator as it will destroy the tube that it fits in. Been there done that. Once you get it out you can just clean it and reuse it if it is in good condition. As for a poa valve I would chance it and just reuse it. There are upgrade kits but a word of caution on it as the A6 compress some times won't hold up to recycling like the newer radial unit do. Just depends on if it is a reman, or new, and who is remaning it. They did make recycling A6 compressors in the 70's and 80's. Here is a forum I read alot that talks about it in 67 to 72 gm trucks. I want to redo a 67 GMC 1 ton 4x4 one day, so I am always looking and reading about them.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=390999


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