# Future Camaro Update: Australia's GM Holden May Be Taking the Lead Toward Production



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

*Future Camaro Update: 
Australia's GM Holden May Be Taking the Lead Toward Production*
Date posted: 04-20-2006









_Will the Chevrolet Camaro concept from the Detroit auto show
(pictured) turn into a GM Holden product? There is reportedly a task force Down Under 
working on the production model._​

*CANBERRA, Australia — A task force based at GM Holden — set up shortly after the debut of the Chevrolet Camaro concept at the North American International Auto Show in January — is reportedly working on the production version of the car, according to the Telegraph newspaper here.*

"The only thing I can say on the record is that our new rear-wheel-drive (Zeta) architecture is the main candidate for the future American rear-wheel-drive products, including the Camaro concept," said GM Holden Chairman Denny Mooney in the report. "We have a significant number of engineering and design resources…working on the project."

The newspaper said Mooney was careful to avoid any confirmation of a Camaro car project and also declined to discuss whether the Camaro project would affect the future of a new Holden Monaro.

What this means to you: Chevy's upcoming muscle car may have roots Down Under.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Mechanicals by Holden.

Sheetmetal by Disney.

Interior by Wal-Mart.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

*Just For You, Groucho*

Just because it's Monday, and I feel like stirring the pot:

1. Know why I like my GTO so much? The Pontiac badges. That red dart is absolutely the coolest. I might even buy more and plaster 'em everywhere.

2. This Camaro (and now I'm being serious) is undoubtedly the most beautiful of the recent round of revivalist concepts we've seen--full of Camaro heritage, yet forward-looking at the same time. A masterpiece of brute strength and shapely grace combined into a perfect whole. Styling by Disney? Well, all I can say is, "Long live the Imagineers!"

3. The interior is awesome. I especially love the ancillary gauge cluster in the center console. Cars of the '60s (vintage Vettes, original GTOs, muscle cars, etc.) had some truly exciting interiors that make today's interiors look like black plastic mausoleums. We could do with more brightwork and color. And Groucho, if Wal-Mart really had developed the Camaro interior, it'd make you hungry for Chinese every time you saw it.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

GM Kid said:


>


Drink deep the Kool Aid.

1. I dunno what this has to do with GM's _funniest_ division, but I'll bite. The only "excitement" to come with the Red Wedgies over last 30 years is the brakes going out in a Hertz Grand Am.

2. Wrong division of Disney. I work with many ex-Imagineers. None of them would be seen anywhere near this hammered abortion. The sheetmetal of the Neo-Camaro is a hideous affront that seems crafted by the same crew who brought us the annoying crab dude in _The Littlest Mermaid._

3. You're right. It looks more like the inside of one of Saddam Hussaein's palaces, only in poorer taste and with less restraint. Where's the chandelier?

A suggestion to GM- when pricing this car out, put it in terms that the most likely Camaro buyer can most clearly relate to. Instead of using dollars, how about using trailer park lot space, lost meth lab supplies, and food stamps as a metric?


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Groucho, you're crackin' me up.

Hey, in honor of yesterday's "Day Without an Immigrant," did you leave your Holden at home? I drove my Pontiac.

Don't know about you, but I'm willing to agree to disagree here. My "GM Kid" handle means I'm the son of a retired GM engineer, so I grew up all rah-rah about all the GM badges. I still feel that way. I root for the home team, celebrating their victories and shaking my head over their failures, but always wishing them well. So it looks like our points of view are just going to be fundamentally different.

What do we have in common? We're Car Guys. We also happen to love our current rides, even if we refer to them by different names. Membership in the Car Guy fraternity (which most certainly can include women) is what allows Mustang and GTO owners to celebrate their common love of horsepower and torque, regardless of the flavor in which it's delivered. It's our common denominator. I had a chat yesterday with a co-worker who just acquired an '00 BMW M5, and I was genuinely excited for him. He happens to love my car, too.

Okay, so let's all sing _Kumbiya_ and enjoy our cars. No group hug necessary.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Here's what I don't get.

Why does my well-founded dislike of certain GM _brands_ and certain GM _designs_ constitute a bash on _all_ GM products? 

Hellloooo....

The company I work for does advanced R&D work for GM. I have a vested interest in them doing well.

I obviously own and happen to be _extremely_ happy with a car that was originally designed, engineered, built, and marketed by Holden for the Australian market. Holden has been a GM subsidiary since 1926-- the same year as the first _P-P-_Pontiac, BTW. I restate this to again point out that _P-P-_Pontiac marketers had almost _no_ input into the design or production of our cars. I find that GM North America arbitrarily slapping a Red Wedgie on the Monaro cheapens the car and instantly diminishes its street credibility as a serious GT. I realize that this is a tough concept for those brought up in the Rust Belt to grasp, but in many other areas of the country _P-P-_Pontiac has become synonymous with poor design, over-the-top boy-racer styling (aka American Rice), poor quality, and usually questionable performance. I'm not going to name names, but I know for a _fact_ that a highly placed GM official has admitted as much, saying that their target demographic is "young, white underachievers." GM NA has done a _horrible_ job in brand management and IMHO should be dropped along with the irrelevant Buick.

I have repeatedly stated that there are GM products which I see as excellent vehicles-- the Cadillac V series and C5 and _especially_ C6 Corvettes as examples. The Saturn Sky and its less-attractive older sibling, the Solstice, are promising vehicles indeed.

Seeing that GM NA otherwise relies heavily on FWD and trucks, however, that's about it.

However, I find the design of this new Camaro repulsive, funny, and completely lacking in imagination. It's just another embarrassing "me-too" stab at retro, just like the incredibly silly-looking HHR. That said, I do take heart in the fact that GMNA has chosen to select a modern IRS rear suspension (unlike Ford's dinoride counterpart), but other than that I see nothing in this car that appeals to me, a hardcore performance (meaning speed and poise in straight line _and_ curves) car guy.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I obviously own and happen to be _extremely_ happy with a car that was originally designed, engineered, built, and marketed by Holden for the Australian market. Holden has been a GM subsidiary since 1926-- the same year as the first _P-P-_Pontiac, BTW. I restate this to again point out that _P-P-_Pontiac marketers had almost _no_ input into the design or production of our cars. I find that GM North America arbitrarily slapping a Red Wedgie on the Monaro cheapens the car and instantly diminishes its street credibility as a serious GT.



Well, I'm just tickled that Red Wedgie was nice enough to sell me my GTO, so I didn't have to plan a move to Australia so I could get one in its original form.
...and I like its looks. Have no desire in trying to make it _look_ like a Holden.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

ModBoss2 said:


> Well, I'm just tickled that Red Wedgie was nice enough to sell me my GTO, so I didn't have to plan a move to Australia so I could get one in its original form.


..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch. 



ModBoss2 said:


> ...and I like its looks. Have no desire in trying to make it _look_ like a Holden.



Then don't. 

_Shrug._


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Oddly, Grouch, I think we pretty much agree with one another. We just don't know it yet.

FYI: I grew up in the Sun Belt, not the Rust Belt. My family's in Arizona because my dad spent most of his career at the GM Desert Proving Ground.

I agree that when it comes to recent Pontiac styling, there's a not lot to like. Thank goodness Bob Lutz felt the same and took an ax to the Aztek, body cladding and cartoonish styling. When the '93 F-bodies bowed and I was choosing between them, the Camaro got the nod over the Firebird because I thought the 'Bird's styling was just plain over the top.

I also agree that the mullet-wearing, My-Name-Is-Earl crowd gave the F-bodies a bad name (particularly during the IROC-Z era). _Smokey and the Bandit_ and _Knight Rider _didn't help, either. The "Cheese Era" for these cars lasted far too long, eventually overshadowing their foundational Trans-Am years when guys like Mark Donohue and Roger Penske gave them glory. A shame.

Cars--and brands--can emerge from such shame, though. The Corvette has successfully shed its image as a poseur's chick-magnet, and Cadillac is making great strides toward once again becoming the Standard of the World. Thank goodness the Corvette isn't defined by the horsepower-deficient '76 model year, nor Cadillac by the Cimarron.

I guess I look at my GM fan-dom the way I look at my love for the Arizona State Sun Devils football team: There was a Golden Era when Frank Kush was coach and the Devils were a scrappy, up-and-coming team that routinely took down the national powerhouses, going so far as to beat Nebraska in the '75 Fiesta Bowl. Then there were some horrible, awful, lamentable years when we hung our heads in ignominy. But I stayed a fan throughout all of that, and I still am. For me, the "stigma" of the bad years is overwhelmed by the program's overall success.

Call it selective memory if you will, but I do the same with Pontiac and Chevrolet. I mourn their failures and boneheaded market moves, but I forgive those gaffes and focus instead on their successes.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> ..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch.


Not if I had to make that move to Australia...but thanks to Pontiac, I can stay right c'here. 






Groucho said:


> Then don't
> .._Shrug._



Yeah, if I had a problem with the looks of the Pontiac when I bought it, I never would have taken ownership of it. I probably would have gotten a Mustang GT instead. Good thing that Pontiac hasn't gone belly-up yet; there's enough Mustangs on the road as it is.

Done.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

GM Kid said:


> Oddly, Grouch, I think we pretty much agree with one another. We just don't know it yet.
> 
> FYI: I grew up in the Sun Belt, not the Rust Belt. My family's in Arizona because my dad spent most of his career at the GM Desert Proving Ground.
> 
> ...


Agreed on all counts. :cheers


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Agreed on all counts. :cheers


Have a great day, Groucho. And yes, your HSV-badged car is awfully cool.


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## PDSSoft (Jun 14, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Why does my well-founded dislike of certain GM _brands_ and certain GM _designs_ constitute a bash on _all_ GM products?
> 
> Hellloooo....
> 
> The company I work for does advanced R&D work for GM. I have a vested interest in them doing well.


This makes no sense at all. If you have a _vested interest_ in GM doing well, why would you bash _any_ of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim _freedom of speech_, or this is just _your opinion_. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a _vested interest_ in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the _cheerleader_ and not the _heckler_.



Groucho said:


> However, I find the design of this new Camaro repulsive, funny, and completely lacking in imagination. It's just another embarrassing "me-too" stab at retro, just like the incredibly silly-looking HHR.


I certainly hope your _vested interest_ is small…


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

PDSSoft said:


> This makes no sense at all. If you have a _vested interest_ in GM doing well, why would you bash _any_ of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim _freedom of speech_, or this is just _your opinion_. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a _vested interest_ in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the _cheerleader_ and not the _heckler_


Please. Don't be an idiot. Or _try_ not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.

But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.

I'm not a blind, robotic fanboi, that's why. I can say WTF I want, and I usually elect to do so. And I happen to think that the vast majority of GM's product is embarrassing _crap_. Malibu? Impala? _Monte Carlo?_ C'mon. HHR? Hilarious. The Grand Prix is just another FWD car with the driving dynamics of a wheelbarrow. I think all of their CVN-class SUVs look like minivans. That Camaro thing? Nasty- looks like it was designed in 7th Grade shop class.

Good thing you didn't get me started on their horrible after-the-sale service.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

PDSSoft said:


> This makes no sense at all. If you have a _vested interest_ in GM doing well, why would you bash _any_ of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim _freedom of speech_, or this is just _your opinion_. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a _vested interest_ in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the _cheerleader_ and not the _heckler_.
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly hope your _vested interest_ is small…



My guess: With a name like Groucho, he's got an image that he must uphold.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Please. Don't be an idiot. Or _try_ not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.
> 
> But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.
> 
> ...



"I can say WTF I want"

3 :cheers to Pontiac for hornswogg'lin Groucho into their dealership, gettin' him to buy that GTO, in the midst of all his GM trouncing, Mustang-owner style.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

ModBoss2 said:


> "I can say WTF I want"
> 
> 3 :cheers to Pontiac for hornswogg'lin Groucho into their dealership, gettin' him to buy that GTO, in the midst of all his GM trouncing, Mustang-owner style.


Mustangs are a bigger joke, saddled as they are with a rear suspension one slot removed from a Connestoga Wagon.

It actually didn't take a lot for me to convince myself to buy a car branded as a P-P-Pontiac, because I knew it was a relabeled import, not a glitzy, soft, overweight/underpowered glorified grocery getter like the rest of the FWD sleds in the showroom.

It is, after all, a Holden.


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## PDSSoft (Jun 14, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Please. Don't be an idiot. Or _try_ not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.
> 
> But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.
> 
> ...


Either you are too naive to understand the concept of business ethics or too old to care. Perhaps you are merely an instigator who is intrigued by the argument. Whatever the case, it would appear you have mastered the art of trolling.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

> Either you are too naive to understand the concept of business ethics or too old to care.


OK, let me get this straight: If one of our clients is the worlds largest automobile manufacturer, it is my moral imperative to defend her products- _all_ of her products- to the death....even the really, really crappy ones?



PDSSoft said:


> Whatever the case, it would appear you have mastered the art of trolling.


Thanks, because I've just caught the rare Grape Kool-Aid Detroit Fanboi, (_rectalcraniumus-mulletoid_)...


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## gojiragoat (Apr 25, 2006)

It a crazy world. I don't really like literal retro-cars, but don't mind when they keep the flavor of the vehicle. However, I cannot warm up to the look of that Camaro, but I love the shameless rip-off of the new Dodge Challenger showcar. Go figure.



Groucho said:


> ..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch.


Nah, using a RHD car in the US is not hard at all. The only excitement comes with tossing coins over the roof on the toll roads, and the toll transponders have now taken care of that problem too! (I had a RHD Lotus Elan for a time  )


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## PDSSoft (Jun 14, 2005)

Groucho said:


> OK, let me get this straight: If one of our clients is the worlds largest automobile manufacturer, it is my moral imperative to defend her products- _all_ of her products- to the death....even the really, really crappy ones?


Not exactly, if one of your clients is the world's largest automobile manufacturer, it is in your (and your company's) _best interest_ (financially) to defend her products. Especially since you and your company play a part in the product (i.e. Research & Development). Hence the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

However, you don't offer any constructive criticism, you simply spew derogatory statements and childish remarks. You dislike GM, you (apparently) hate Pontiac, and you condemn the GTO in favor of the Holden Monaro. 

Why are you even here? Oh, yes... I almost forgot. You're just _trolling_ through.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

PDSSoft said:


> Not exactly, if one of your clients is the world's largest automobile manufacturer, it is in your (and your company's) _best interest_ (financially) to defend her products. Especially since you and your company play a part in the product (i.e. Research & Development). Hence the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you".
> 
> However, you don't offer any constructive criticism, you simply spew derogatory statements and childish remarks. You dislike GM, you (apparently) hate Pontiac, and you condemn the GTO in favor of the Holden Monaro.
> 
> Why are you even here? Oh, yes... I almost forgot. You're just _trolling_ through.


Wow. Not sure _how_ you got that stick so far up there, but I'll bet it hurts.

More Kool-Aid, perhaps?


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Mustangs are a bigger joke, saddled as they are with a rear suspension one slot removed from a Connestoga Wagon.


Yes, you're not talkin' about the Cobra. There's too many of them out there to try and forget.



Groucho said:


> It actually didn't take a lot for me to convince myself to buy a car branded as a P-P-Pontiac, because I knew it was a relabeled import, not a glitzy, soft, overweight/underpowered glorified grocery getter like the rest of the FWD sleds in the showroom.


Ever been spanked by any LS1 f-bodies? P-P-Pontiacs aren't the only FWDs out there. The fad is catching on. 



Groucho said:


> It is, after all, a Holden.


You really deserve much better...Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari...they'd probably get your nose back in joint.


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## pab13 (Apr 20, 2006)

all i can say is the world is a weird place, comming from Aust, i thought Chevy's ruled. It was not rare to see old and new worked holden's with a chevy badge on it.

I came over here to the US and it was a complete surprise, the chevy cars and trucks leave much to be desired and everyone i talk to about them here, basically said that they are a piece of **** and wouldn't consider one.

Kinda weird about the perception from one place to the other, ask just about anyone in Aust what they think about chevy's and it's all good . Obviously if Chevy still sends the LS2's to Aust to put it in anything Holden wants, it'll be all good for a long long time.

Ford Australia designs and builds the Ford Falcon (all australian parts including motor) a worth competor to Holden's commodore lineup. i don't know how many would say that cars produced from GM or Ford are bullet proof in the US but that's how it stands down under.

I think we need to get some Aussies over here on some payrolls.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

ModBoss2 said:


> Ever been spanked by any LS1 f-bodies? P-P-Pontiacs aren't the only FWDs out there. The fad is catching on.


Never. Some have tried, but I assume the vibration and parts falling off the Flex-Bodies is disconcerting because they back off at high-felony velocities.




ModBoss2 said:


> You really deserve much better...Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari...they'd probably get your nose back in joint.


I'm an unrepentant BimmerHead, owned two, still love 'em I do...but I've modded my car as an M3 slayer. _Schnell!_


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

pab13 said:


> I think we need to get some Aussies over here on some payrolls.


Absolutely. Our cars are great cars precisely _because_ they were designed and built far from meddling Detroit...not in spite of it.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

PDSSoft said:


> Not exactly, if one of your clients is the world's largest automobile manufacturer, it is in your (and your company's) _best interest_ (financially) to defend her products. Especially since you and your company play a part in the product (i.e. Research & Development). Hence the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you".


In a big company like GM, there's only so much any one sub-contractor can do. 

Clearly, most of the products pooped out by the General are just that -- crap. And until they fire enough of the crappy designers and corporate weasels who dilute good products by pecking them to death with price/demand bell curves, pie charts and PowerPoint graphs -- they're going to continue to produce crap. You know the Escalade? GM dealers were asking for that in the early 90's -- but the know-it-alls at corporate said "there's no way anybody's going to pay more than $40K for an SUV." Those people should have been fired. But they're still there collection big salaries to screw up.

Why can't the Camaro be a more mature car with good looks and high performance? Why is it clearly being targeted to mullets? Look at the Dodge Challenger. I'd buy that. The new Camaro? NFW. It just looks too juvenile. And you watch -- stuff like the 20-22 inch wheels and gigantic tires are going to be whittled down to P21570R16s because some beancounter who's Rick Wagoner's buddy will say "oh, look, these tires are much cheaper."

I used to be staunch supporter of American manufacturing. However, after running multiple reviews of suppliers for a boatloads of components for my next company -- I have to tell you that a HUGE percentage of them are fat, dumb and lazy -- just ready to be picked off by the Chinese.

Sad? Yes. But if those clowns actually WORKED and knew how to SELL instead of sitting on their assess and COLLECTING ORDERS -- they might be able to justify a higher price through good service. But, no, they think they can charge MORE and expect ME to do all of their leg work.

As far as GM is concerned, none of those idiots working for it have what it takes to produce a car that is BEST IN CLASS and capable of winning a consumer's hard earned dollars. Which would you have? An Impala or Fusion? An Impala or Camry? An Impala or Accord? Got news for you -- GM just went 0 for 3 until they crank up the rebates. Simple as that.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Groucho, I'm not sure how you were able to beat an F-Body with your LS1 powered GTO. You have never mentioned doing anything to enhance the engines power output. That means you were able to beat a 300lb lighter car without any extra hp. You must have gone up against some bad drivers. 

I can see your point about not being a cheerleader for GM. If you don't think the product is good you shouldn't promote it. But that means you need to also start trashing Honda, Nissan and Toyota for making crappy front-drive cars. Oh don't forget VW and Saab too. In reality Groucho, most of the cars made are front-drive. There is a reason for this, it's more practical in most of the world to have a front-drive car. Unlike you and I, and the other performance car owners here, most people buy a car to get from point a to point b as cheaply as possible. This means you don't add snow tires in the winter and you want a soft baby buggy suspension. 

I will agree that GM needs to develope some decent rear drive platforms. This is beyond the Caddy's, C6, GTO, Solstice and Sky. Something mainstream and mid-sized would be great. Also the styling of this Camaro is somewhat tacky to me. I'm not much of a retro guy but something about the challenger has me going "that's it". The Camaro and Mustang come off as cheap knock-offs of the real thing. 

Well as always it's great to see Groucho's cheap put-downs of anything GMNA and to hear him promote the over-priced rental BMW's that he loves. Or should I say BMW cop cars that he loves. Or BMW taxi-cabs that he loves.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

fergyflyer said:


> Groucho, I'm not sure how you were able to beat an F-Body with your LS1 powered GTO. You have never mentioned doing anything to enhance the engines power output. That means you were able to beat a 300lb lighter car without any extra hp. You must have gone up against some bad drivers.


...or, more likely, crappy ill-handling cars that don't exactly inspire confidence at high speed.




fergyflyer said:


> Oh don't forget VW and Saab too. In reality Groucho, most of the cars made are front-drive. There is a reason for this, it's more practical in most of the world to have a front-drive car. Unlike you and I, and the other performance car owners here, most people buy a car to get from point a to point b as cheaply as possible. This means you don't add snow tires in the winter and you want a soft baby buggy suspension.


You _can_ make a well-balanced FWD performance car...the VW GTI, Honda Civic Si, and Acura RSX-S leap to mind. Note that these are small, (relatively) light cars with snappy powerplants. (Toyota offers nothing to the performance driver- they've become as bad as Buick, only possibly with higher domestic content.  ) I can't comment on the Cobalt SS, other than I don't like the way it looks...but I've heard decent things. But cramming a V8 into a heavy FWD car is idiocy; a blatant attempt to make these outdated platforms seem like "performance cars." What you get are horrible driving dynamics. Ditto with the silly Grand Prixs that people were crowing about. My God-- what's the point? The point is to fool ignorant people who think the sun rises and sets out of Wagonner's ass.




fergyflyer said:


> Well as always it's great to see Groucho's cheap put-downs of anything GMNA and to hear him promote the over-priced rental BMW's that he loves. Or should I say BMW cop cars that he loves. Or BMW taxi-cabs that he loves.


Whatever. Unless you've really driven an M-type hard you won't get it. Driving, BTW, constitutes steering both left and right, with the occasional downshift...not this idiotic, pansy-assed 1/4 mile stuff. The reason I didn't buy a Bimmer last time around is that it seemed they were losing theirt soul. I have to say I'm extremely heartened by the new back-to-performance-basics M-Roadster and M-Coupe - the latter in particular. 










Sure as hell doesn't look like any taxi I've ever seen.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

*Pssst...Cobras have IRS =o*



Groucho said:


> Never. Some have tried, but I assume the vibration and parts falling off the Flex-Bodies is disconcerting because they back off at high-felony velocities.


Really? When their performance numbers are closer to that of the LS2 GTOs? I guess a ricer fly-by on your way to top-end limits could be considered a win.





> I'm an unrepentant BimmerHead, owned two, still love 'em I do...but I've modded my car as an M3 slayer. _Schnell!_


You really should have snatched up a M5, Bimmerhead...or at least a modded M3. It'd be your little Holden cruncher. 

What about a ZO6 (world super-car slayer)? Pretty fast and they just might live up to Grouch braking and handling standards...yes?


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I have to say I'm extremely heartened by the new back-to-performance-basics M-Roadster and M-Coupe - the latter in particular.


I totally agree. The coupe's proportions are spot-on. Now if only BMW could make that sad-eyed face look a little more menacing. . .


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

ModBoss2 said:


> Really? When their performance numbers are closer to that of the LS2 GTOs? I guess a ricer fly-by on your way to top-end limits could be considered a win.


Um, _no_, Cletus...I'm, talking open freeway side-by-side ass-hauling.

Funny, your Mulleted Bretheren seem to loose confidence at around 120. Wonder why that is? 



ModBoss2 said:


> You really should have snatched up a M5, Bimmerhead...or at least a modded M3. It'd be your little Holden cruncher.
> 
> What about a ZO6 (world super-car slayer)? Pretty fast and they just might live up to Grouch braking and handling standards...yes?


You want to compare $70k+ cars with my $30k car?

Are you _that_ retarded, or is it just a slow day at the trailer park rec center?



GM Kid said:


> I totally agree. The coupe's proportions are spot-on. Now if only BMW could make that sad-eyed face look a little more menacing. . .



I dunno...I like the new M-treatment look. Wish they would do _more_ to lose the Bangle-ized look, but there you go.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I dunno...I like the new M-treatment look. Wish they would do _more_ to lose the Bangle-ized look, but there you go.


Don't get me wrong--if somebody gave me one of these, I'd be a very happy guy. And the M-look is awesome. There's just something a little droopy about the car's headlamps--as though you'd put a finger aside each eye and tugged down. A more menacing glare could be effected by tipping the outer edges upward, such as with C6 Vette, Vipier, or even the Honda S2000 or Mazda RX-8.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Um, _no_, Cletus...I'm, talking open freeway side-by-side ass-hauling.


Are you stock, Peter? Thought you were. I'm close enough to stock.

Like I said, the performance numbers on the LS1 f-bodies are probably closer to a stock '05 GTO, rather than a stock '04 GTO. So, if you can pull on those f-bodies, you should be able to pull on me  yeah, right.



> Funny, your Mulleted Bretheren seem to loose confidence at around 120. Wonder why that is?


Gears? Mel, 120 is nothing.:lol: 

In my old CSVT, 135 felt sweet...on its way to around a 145 top-end. But if you're addicted to top-end racing _only_...then get yo'self a Neon SRT-4 and wet yourself for crunching a 4.10 geared, 11 second Mustang...w/ your 13/14 second Neon. 





> You want to compare $70k+ cars with my $30k car?


No, Yahoo, those were suggestions for a self-proclaimed BimmerHead. You deserve better than just a workin' man's Holden...maybe a supercharged Bentley. Ah, yes.




> Are you _that_ retarded, or is it just a slow day at the trailer park rec center?


Hmm...Paul, not too many twisties to worry about, out thar in Bakersfield, correct...caters more to the 18 wheelers, yes?

Well, if I had myself a down-under hankerin', I'd grow'd me some road-warrior stubble and bolt on one of those there maggies, and carry myself out to one of them desolate highways


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

ModBoss2 said:


> Hmm...Paul, not too many twisties to worry about, out thar in Bakersfield, correct...caters more to the 18 wheelers, yes?


No twisties? You don't get out much, do you, Nancy?


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Nancy


Really diggin' those wheels and calipers, Peter.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

ModBoss2 said:


> Really diggin' those wheels and calipers, Peter.


Me too.

At last we agree, sweetheart.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Me too.
> 
> At last we agree, sweetheart.


Yeah, they look simply smashing.

Now, with black lugnuts and yellow centers they'd really look tre'chic


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## Thunder (Jun 17, 2006)

http://www.holden.com.au/newcommodore/


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## 06GeeTeeOOH (Jul 2, 2006)

ill take my ls2 over any of those haha lol


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## GRR_RRR (Oct 19, 2006)

According to R&T a new GTO will be built on the new Sigma platform along side the new Camaro in the Oshawa, CA plant beginning with a 2010 model.
arty:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

GRR_RRR said:


> According to R&T a new GTO will be built on the new Sigma platform along side the new Camaro in the Oshawa, CA plant beginning with a 2010 model.
> arty:




* LOL *.....

*Believe it when I see it. One day GM says the GTO is discontinued, next day they say it isn't. They have no clue what they are doing.*


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> * LOL *.....
> 
> *Believe it when I see it. One day GM says the GTO is discontinued, next day they say it isn't. They have no clue what they are doing.*


If that aint the truth.ai think they're coin flipping.


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