# Removing the brake drums.



## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

OK, this isn't so much a '64 GTO question as it is a general question about how to remove brake drums on a car that's been sitting outside stuck 6 inches in the dirt for many years. It just happens to be my '64 GTO parts car. I got 3 of the drums loose and two of them are even rotating but I can't pull them off because the lip on the drum won't let me pull them over the brake shoes and the adjusters are rusted tight. (I'm just guessing here  but all that dirt/mud that got inside the brake drum probably didn't do them much good.) I think the 4th drum hasn't broken loose yet because the parking brake is holding it too tight for even my sledge hammer to break it loose. I've soaked the adjusters for over a week in penetrating oil but, as expected, that didn't help.

This is a parts car and I don't really care about the drums. So I'm thinking about getting a diamond grit blade for my sawzall and cutting them off. I'm guessing that once I cut through the cast iron on opposite sides I'll be able to open them up enough to remove them. Anybody have any other ideas?

As an interesting side comment, I put 32 psi in the tires and, after sitting flat and buried in the dirt for about 30+ years, two of them are still holding ~28 psi after 3 weeks!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

You might try cutting/chiseling the brake shoe hold down pins at the back of the brake mounting plate for the rear brakes. Cutting the heads off might allow the brake shoes to pull inward just enough to get the drums off.

I would think pulling the front wheel bearings might help. *The front drums are part of the hub and won't separate* like modern cars if that is what you are doing.

Also look for a thin metal lock washer that is typically found on the studs from the factory if still in place. They usually get tossed if the drums have been pulled in the past to turn/replace them. These are often missed when trying to pull drums.

For the rear drums, spray around the studs and the center hole on the drum as this area will also rust and hold the drum on. So pop the center of the drum as well as outside.


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

Oh! I like the idea of cutting the brake shoe hold down pins. I'll try that next if I can get at it.

I tried pulling the front wheel bearing but the drum still won't go over the shoe. Those thin lock washers are long gone. And that's what I've been doing - spraying around the studs and center hole then beating the heck out of the rim of the drum with my big sledge hammer. (Accidentally hit one stud and knocked it inside the drum!) After doing that about 5 days in a row on the 4th wheel I gave up. I was a bit surprised my neighbors didn't come out to complain about all the noise!


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Make sure you've used a brake spoon to loosen the shoes as much as possible. Then judicious use of a BFH.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Use a brake drum puller, It has a long bar and clamps behind the drum. Use the techniques by PJ and Mr Taylor to free it up......even soak through a back adjuster hole or along edge to inside with PB Blaster....

but a drum puller after that..Snap on, OTC, Napa or make them,...probably you can get a loaner from an auto parts store


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

Brake spoons don't do much when the adjuster is rusted tight - even after judicious use of PB Blaster over multiple days. And judicious use of my 12 lb sledge hammer did loosen 3 of the 4 drums from the hub. I'm still hoping #4 finally breaks free. I just can't get them off over the brake shoes.

I'll see if I can find a puller and try that. The hold down pins are going to be pretty hard to get to with it on blocks in the yard.

By the way, I'm posting my (sometimes way too slow) progress on a web page at Cal's GTO Rebuild. Is there a good place on this forum to post that site? The more I see that people are looking at it, the more likely I'll be to keep it up to date. So feel free to comment on it - positive comments and constructive criticism are all welcome.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I just looked at your link. Nice job on both the work and the pictures/videos. When you assembled the end carburetors, did you check the throttle bores for light leaks around the butterflies? Another option is using the sealer the factory used, DAG213.


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

Yes. I did check for light leaks but I didn't know anything about any sealer. You can see some light if you line them up directly with a light bulb. And by "directly" I mean "directly". If I lined up one side of the butterfly so I could see light then I couldn't see light from the other side. You couldn't see anything when just looking towards a well lit white wall. My guess is that anything tighter might start sticking. (Maybe the many openings and closings when I was "driving" on Woodward Ave. back in the day wore them in. )


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

You want them as tight as possible. It sounds like you are extremely knowledgeable, and I don't want to offend you. But here is the adjustment procure that I used. It would be good to put on the DAG213 as well, but when I did it I didn't do it right. You should be able to get it from the tri=power rebuilders, and it used to be available fro Performance Years. 

I'll try an attachment, but if that doesn't work I'll copy and paste.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Nope, didn't work. Here's how I did it.

The factory sealed the end carburetor butterflies with something called DAG213. After rebuilding the carburetors, this wears off. I tried hand treating the butterflies with this treatment, and I was not successful. With this as a given, all you can do is get the best mechanical seal possible. First the throttle body has to be separated from the rest of the carb. With the butterflies closed, hold the throttle body between your eyes and a bright light. Note the light leakage past the butterflies. If you don't see any, be thankful and don't touch them. Otherwise, now remove both butterflies. Re-install the one closest to the linkage that is controlling these butterflies, but without the screws. Note that it inserts from the top with the “buttons” keeping the butterfly from dropping through the shaft. Continually “massage” how this butterfly fits until you get minimum light leakage. Do this with each butterfly, then with both of them to assure you get the best butterfly in each bore. You might have to install the screws to help hold the position during these trials. Now do it over again for the final installation, assuring the screws are tight this time and that you achieve a result as good as your trials. Note that if the screws are not tight they like to fall into the engine later on. A small dab of Loc Tite will help. It is a tedious process, but anything less will be a compromise towards more leakage. It will not be perfect, but it will be better than the factory (without their sealer) and it work well enough so as not to be a problem. I believe you will see a noticeable difference in the light leak when you are done.



Good Luck, Jim "Old Man" Taylor


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

That sounds like exactly what I did. Unfortunately I didn't keep track of which butterfly came from which position when I took it apart so I tried them in both positions then took the best. It was actually pretty hard to tell which was best. The most important thing seemed to be moving them around with the screws loose until I had the best fit I could get. Then - one side/butterfly at a time - held the butterfly closed and carefully tightened the screws and rechecked to make sure things hadn't moved while tightening.

As for not offending me, I never take offense unless someone is obviously being offensive. (And even then I usually just ignore it.) That is especially true when done in writing because it's too easy to misinterpret the intent. I also like to think that I know enough to know there's a lot I don't know so it's always worth listening. It's also amazing how many times someone else comes up with an idea you never thought of even when you have experience in that general area. And sometimes it's just an, "Oh, crap, that's so basic why didn't I think of it." (Example: I used to do automotive repairs as a side job so I've done quite a few brake jobs in my day. That means I'm very familiar with drum brakes but hadn't thought about breaking off the hold down pin as suggested by PontiacJim.) So I _always _welcome other peoples' advice - whether or not I take it depends on what else I know and what others might be saying.

In fact, I thought about the LocTite but didn't have any on hand. Instead I very lightly peened the ends of the screws. But I didn't want to overdo it such that removing them would be difficult which means I'm not sure how secure they really are. I think maybe I should pull them off and use some LocTite while they're still off the engine. Thanks for mentioning it.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

If they seem hard to remove, then just leave them in. If they're still apart, it might be worth trying to get some DAG213. That was the factory solution. If you run a large cam it won't make as much difference.


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

64since65 said:


> Brake spoons don't do much when the adjuster is rusted tight - even after judicious use of PB Blaster over multiple days. And judicious use of my 12 lb sledge hammer did loosen 3 of the 4 drums from the hub. I'm still hoping #4 finally breaks free. I just can't get them off over the brake shoes.
> 
> I'll see if I can find a puller and try that. The hold down pins are going to be pretty hard to get to with it on blocks in the yard.
> 
> By the way, I'm posting my (sometimes way too slow) progress on a web page at Cal's GTO Rebuild. Is there a good place on this forum to post that site? The more I see that people are looking at it, the more likely I'll be to keep it up to date. So feel free to comment on it - positive comments and constructive criticism are all welcome.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

I used a slide hammer on my 63 Grand Prix Aluminum Drums. Attached a curved piece of wood to the hammer. It took a bit but came off.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

You need the dag man, the only thing that sealed my trips


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

64since65 said:


> Yes. I did check for light leaks but I didn't know anything about any sealer. You can see some light if you line them up directly with a light bulb. And by "directly" I mean "directly". If I lined up one side of the butterfly so I could see light then I couldn't see light from the other side. You couldn't see anything when just looking towards a well lit white wall. My guess is that anything tighter might start sticking. (Maybe the many openings and closings when I was "driving" on Woodward Ave. back in the day wore them in. )


You need the dag man, that’s the only thing that sealed my trips


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Boeshield T-9 Rust and Corrosion Protector aerosol is pretty amazing stuff. Developed by Boeing, it disolves rust and loosens up the most rust-stuck bolts, etc in minutes. As much as I like PB Blaster, I think T-9 is even better. I buy it from a local outdoor/marine store but you can get it online, too. Good luck!


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

You guys had me concerned about sealing the butterflies so I decided to check my fit. I found a plastic bag that had a thickness of about 0.0005" (1/2 a thousandth) and cut a piece 1/8" wide and about 2" long so I had something to hold onto. I tested it in multiple places around each butterfly. It was tight everywhere except one spot on one butterfly next to the throttle shaft. When doubled over, that one spot was also tight. I would think that should be tight enough.


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

Solved:
I finally got one of the stuck drums removed. This one wouldn't loosen at all no matter how much I soaked it and beat on it with the 12# sledge. It wouldn't turn and the center hub of the drum wouldn't break loose. (I guess 30+ years of sitting outside in the dirt didn't help!) I ended up getting a diamond grit sawzall blade and cutting the cast iron part of the drum in 3 places 90 degrees apart then widening the openings by driving a chisel in. I tried to be careful when cutting but still ended up cutting into the backing plate slightly. The backing plate would still be usable but it does have a couple 1/4-3/8" long cuts in the outer edge now.

Best I can tell, there was a lot of rust holding the brake friction material to the drum and that was keeping it from breaking loose with the other methods. (??) At one point as I was driving in the chisel I heard a pop/click that was probably when the friction material finally broke loose. This is only a guess. I would have thought the surface of the friction material itself would have broken loose with all the pounding. Once that was loose, the center came loose easily.

There's one more drum that's loose and rotates but won't come off and the adjuster is rusted so I can't back off the shoes. I was hoping a puller would work on that one but I can't find one to rent locally and these drums aren't worth spending $125+ for a puller to remove them. So that one may get cut also. The drums are worth nothing compared so saving the axle housing - and maybe the differential if I'm really, really lucky.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Well, you tried all the conventional things, so cutting had to be done. I have torches, so I would have used a lot of heat. Then if no luck, cutting would have been it. Easy enough to get a replacement drum and they are not to expensive. The brake shoes may have been metallic, and having more metal content would explain why they nearly welded/rusted themselves on.

The backing plates should be fine. You could easily have them welded up and be good to go.


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

You just had to mention torches didn't you. I know you didn't do that to be mean so I'll forgive you this time. 

I sort of have torches and I would have tried them. _But I forgot to close the valves last time I used them_ and now there's no gas left. I'd go get more but the tanks are the tall ones and I only have cars right now so I'd have to strap them into my trailer in order to transport them correctly. But we just bought a new car and there's no trailer hitch yet. And since I'm trying to stay at home as much as possible right now (at the direction of my nurse practitioner daughter), I decide to wait to get the hitch which means waiting for the new tanks - which is probably going to be _new_ tanks ($$) since I don't use them much anymore and it's been many, many years since they were filled.


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