# '67 Lemans/GTO



## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

I am looking at a 1967 Lemans/ GTO (its got parts from both and I havnt looked at it yet to figure out what it started life out as). I was wondering what I should be looking for as far as problems/ rust/ etc (that i can find out looking at it) that are known problems with this year Goat.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

look at the vin. i beleive the gto starts with 242. if it is different it is a lemans. also the tail lights panel section is way different on gtos and lemans.


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Yea, I can tell what it is wen I get a look at it, Im a GTO nut, bu have never owned one.
I just need help in knowing if there are any special things i should look for that are problem causers or problems themselves that I can find out just by giving it a thorough look over.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

You should pay close attention to the following areas for rust or excessive body filler,

The front fenders behind the tires, there is a brace that held moisture and was the cause of rust front the inside out,
The tail panel around the tail lights,
The rear quarters in front and back of the tires and along the rocker extensions.
The front and rear windshield channels,
The c pillars,
The floor and the trunk pans,

Check out the bushings under the body and the control arms, if they are shot you may as well plan on a frame off that can turn into a very expensive project.


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks guys.
A couple other questions.

About how much would a rear window, and weatherstripping cost?

And

What would be a better/ more period body filler to use; Lead or bondo? Im thinking Lead b/c I just hate bondo...


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## ChromeCoach10 (Oct 26, 2008)

auburnconsulting said:


> look at the vin. i beleive the gto starts with 242. if it is different it is a lemans. also the tail lights panel section is way different on gtos and lemans.


In 67, the GTO was "242", the LeMans was "237", Tempest was "233" and I think Tempest Custom was either "235" or "236".


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Ranger01 said:


> Thanks guys.
> A couple other questions.
> 
> About how much would a rear window, and weatherstripping cost?
> ...



The last new rear window I purchased was around $300+/-, I have a used one for sale in this thread. The windshield seal kit is around $30 +/-.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

If it needs to be resealed, I'll bet there's some rust involved.


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, Im goin to look at it monday. 
But, from what I hear from the guy who is selling it: (all of this IS taken with a grain of salt untill I see it)
The car is a Nevada car, its got almost no through rust. 
It is missing the rear window, and the seal.
It had some shoddy dent repair on the Drivers 1/4.
Area b/w trunk and rear window needs to be redone.
Frame is good condition.
Interior needs to be redone.
Dash, gauges, etc all there.
It has 2 taillights in a line each having 3 "mini lights" in them = Its a Lemans, or has the rear of a Lemans. But it has a GTO number on the VIN...Meaning either a replaced VIN or he used a Lemans as a part car and didnt know what parts wouldnt work right.

Now my perspective:
Its from nevada, If its been sitting for any time without care (or with shoddy care) the seals will need to be replaced.

It comes with 2 motors (326, and 400 H.O.) as well as 2 T400 trannys. That to me is saying that its well worth what its going for ($4500).

But all in all this is gonna be a fun piece of detective work to find out what it is.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

The 400 HO motor should be worth a few bucks. there is a NOS GTO tail panel on e-bay for $795....a repro is $300, I have no idea how the fit is. Good luck! Eric


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## 67/04gto (Jan 15, 2005)

from what a friend told me that the repo fits good


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

If it has a LeMans tail panel, my bet is that it's really a Lemans. NOBODY converts GTO's into LeMans's!!! Check it out thoroughly!!! Good Luck!
Jeff


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

yea, im gonna look at it. My guess on the tail panel is that if its actually a GTO its been fixed with a Lemans tail panel (that would also explain the shoddy metalwork on the 1/4, if someone doesn't know how to do stuff like that right how would they know what parts to use? lol)
But as for now Im gonna consider it a Lemans.

What are your guy's views on turning it into a GTO Clone?
A GTO is something Ive always wanted, and I wont sell it. I myself dont much like clones but I cant afford a real GTO.

*EDIT:* I got some pictures in an email. Looks like it IS a Lemans, but somone put a GTO VIN and hood on it sometime in the past.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

That is a Le Mans. It has the gills on the quarters in front of the rear wheels, the tail panel, and the front fender lemans call-outs. Around here, that is about an 800 dollar car. Seriously. If the tag HAS been changed to a GTO's, it is not legal, and may be a stolen vehicle or the tag may be from a stolen vehicle. I would give it a WIDE berth. Be patient, hang tight, and something better will come your way. There is NOTHING wrong with a Lemans, it's just that you can get a much nicer, legitimate car with a clean bill of health (and sale) elsewhere. Just my opinion, and I've driven and owned GTO's since 1978.
Jeff


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Well the big problem for me is Im from Minnesota... we dont get too many nice cars for decent prices (I cant afford anything over $5k since Im paying for college.)

I have looked far and wide for a (non 04-06) GTO that is in that catagory, even a junker around here usually goes for $6k+. The cheapest Ive found a GTO was a 68 Shell and frame (nothing else) and that was going for $8k.

But Damn... Thought I caught a winner here.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Be patient!!! It would be worth your while to buy one in a different area, possibly have a club member check it out, and have it shipped to you. You could end up getting a way nicer car for less cash. In California, that car, as I stated, would not bring a grand. But, it is what it is....up in the rust belt, it may just be worthwhile. I am really leery of the title and trim plate switcheroo, though. It smells fishy to me!!


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Yea patience is a virtue I've got a lot of. Im trying to find GTO's in other areas, but am dumbfounded as how to find em (Ebay= not good).

*EDIT:*

OK, Update. It DOES NOT have GTO numbers... I asked the dude, he read em to me. I heard it had GTO numbers from my friend who saw it for sale (FWIW he is not a pontiac guy...)

This is now starting to look a bit brighter for me.

Also I just looked and the car has now popped up on ebay....
eBay Motors: Pontiac : Le Mans (item 300273020738 end time Nov-19-08 07:54:25 PST)


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

You're not alone. I thought I found my ride. I drove 90 mins to look at it, looked good. Was a Lemans Sport all Judged out. RAIII and all was done up right. MINT condition, good price and too good to be true. I gave the guy a deposit and the day I was to get it, I found out the title was open, and the persons name on the title was nowhere to be found. I was really pissed and was able to cancel payment on the check. 

When you find the right one, ask to see the title. I wasted 1 week of my time setting things up with insurance, etc only to find the "title is OK" was ok in his mind but not in the mind of PennDOT.


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Wow man that sucks. I had that kind of experience once.... but mine was with a '70 Olds Cutlass S, turned out that the guy decided not to pay to have the title transferred over to him in the 90s... That was a real headache (not only did I have to cancel a check but I had to find a place to get rid of $500 worth of cutlass parts.....)


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> Around here, that is about an 800 dollar car. Be patient, hang tight, and something better will come your way. There is NOTHING wrong with a Lemans, it's just that you can get a much nicer, legitimate car with a clean bill of health (and sale) elsewhere.





Ranger01 said:


> Well the big problem for me is Im from Minnesota... we dont get too many nice cars for decent prices.





geeteeohguy said:


> Be patient!!! It would be worth your while to buy one in a different area, possibly have a club member check it out, and have it shipped to you. You could end up getting a way nicer car for less cash. In California, that car, as I stated, would not bring a grand. But, it is what it is....up in the rust belt, it may just be worthwhile.


If you can find cars in better condition than this in CA for a grand, I'll take a whole transport full of them.......

Ranger's right. The price may be still be a tad high, even for here in that shape, but it will sell for well over 1k. A clean body and title up here is worth that.......


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

geeteeohguy said:


> Be patient!!! It would be worth your while to buy one in a different area, possibly have a club member check it out, and have it shipped to you. You could end up getting a way nicer car for less cash. In California, that car, as I stated, would not bring a grand. But, it is what it is....up in the rust belt, it may just be worthwhile. I am really leery of the title and trim plate switcheroo, though. It smells fishy to me!!


I agree with GeeTeeOhguy. Be patient. Judging by your userid, you're only at the most 3hrs away from the this car. Go take a look at it so at least you wont feel like you missed out. I would bet that once you see it you'll be glad you didn't buy it. I'm guessing it's a lot rougher than it appears. I too was a fellow "ranger" and still live in the rust belt. I know your dilemma. Cars aren't exactly cheap around here. But I think you can still do better, especially, since it's a non GTO. Pick up an Old Car Trader mag. Good Luck!!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Knowing that it's actually an unaltered, legitimate LeMans makes it look much better. Yes, I'm jaded due to rust free cars out here, But it still seems like a LOT of $$$ for what appears to be a junkyard quality car that will need a complete and expensive restoration. Bear in mind that it costs exactly the same to paint and upholster a Lemans as a GTO, and when allis said and done, you'll have more time and $$$ into the car than it will be worth. On the other hand, If you want to build your own, the way you want it, and hot-rod it the way you see fit, it could be a lot of fun and very rewarding. Check out the car. Your gut will tell you what to do!
Jeff


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Yea, working on it isnt a problem, I can do all the labor myself (my school lets students have free reign in the auto shop).
But still, Im gonna go give it a look-see and then decide from there. 

Altho while out on a run this morning I did see a nice (but a tad beat) 65 Tempest sitting in a driveway with a for sale sign on it... Me thinks that tomorrow I will ask n see what the price is...


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Keep us informed on what you do or decide.


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, I was able to go talk to the guy with the tempest, and get a closer look at it. Its got no motor, tranny, or interior. There is severe rust on the quarters and rockers... the guy wants $6k for it and wont back down due to "sentimental value". (I think he just wants to get more than its worth.)

So that options down. Now to wait for Monday to see the Lemans.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Ranger01 said:


> Well, I was able to go talk to the guy with the tempest, and get a closer look at it. Its got no motor, tranny, or interior. There is severe rust on the quarters and rockers... the guy wants $6k for it and wont back down due to "sentimental value". (I think he just wants to get more than its worth.)
> 
> So that options down. Now to wait for Monday to see the Lemans.


Ranger, I spent a good deal of time looking at the LeMans yesterday. I already had an appointment setup to see it when I stumbled upon this forum and thread. It is a very solid body, but that is about all you would be getting. I forgot to bring my engine ID info with me and I can't say if it is original to the car, but it may well be. He has no history of when the engine last ran and can only say that it turns over by hand. The TH400 definitely isn't original and appears to be from a 75 car. Condition completely unknown. It has a 10 bolt rear axle that date codes to within 1 week of the body build date and doesn't appear to have ever been removed. 

Interior; The dash is there and appears complete but shabby. The wiring is a mini disaster and the fuse block is hanging out. The seats will provide good frames for complete restoration. The console is decent enough to restore, but the shifter is missing many parts and is unusable as is.

The body; was Tyrol Blue with Parchment bucket interior. NO vinyl top. It would be beautiful when restored to original colors. It needs the filler panel and sail panels in the rear window cove replaced and possibly some restorative work to the supporting structure under it. He has the back glass. The tail panel is rusted thru at the light openings and is butchered from the lock being pried out. It needs complete rebuild or replacement. 
The right quarter panel; the car was hit in the qp to door seam and a replacement panel was installed OVER the top of the old one. The panel appears to have been a dealer replacement or a donor. It is a GM panel with the louvers. The only way to correct it will be to remove it and start from scratch refitting it properly. I believe the panel can be saved and reused and if not entirely, the louvers can be cut out and installed into a replacement panel. The right door is a donor replacement and has just a small spot of rust coming out in the far rear lower corner. The rest of the body appears original. I saw old bondo work in the nose piece and front fenders, but as you know, that can all be reversed and the "slide hammer" holes welded shut. 

All in all, it is a rock solid body that if frame offed and acid dipped would come out of the tank looking like the day it was built. The floors, rockers, trunk, fenders and left door show NO signs of rust thru. The right door is very good as well, but there is the rust thru in the lower corner; still very restorable. Frame has minimal surface rust. It's an excellent foundation to build on, but will take deep pockets to ever complete and who knows how much time and money in the engine/trans to even drive it while you're saving for the complete interior replacement. The entire steering system; idler arm, center link, tie rods, balls joints, bushings are all original and loose, so there's many hundreds of dollars just to put it safely on the street, not to mention all new brake components. It appears to have been sitting for a LONG time and the title is in a salvage yards name from 1988 !!! It appears to be a valid certificate and is signed by the yard owner in 2007. 

I Have an 88 IROC that he was interested in trading, but he would rather have cash and is going to let the ebay auction run it's coarse to see if he can get enough for it before we talk about a trade more. He will let it go without the extra engine/trans for a "little" less ( we never got to actual numbers) and I would suggest exploring that avenue. If we could've worked out a trade yesterday, it would be sitting in my shed today, but I am seasonally employed and my season just ended, so I'm not in a position to lay out the cash he wants. Is it worth it ?? Up here YES, but the less you have to pay, the more you have left to spend on the money pit. 
Good Luck.......


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks for the info TMP!
I dont really have the money or time to do a full and complete frame off(already got a '56 Chevy that Im gonna be rodding and using as a long term project), so I think Im gonna pass on this one.

So now its back to square one trying to find an old car that would be easy to get going as a running project. Max Budget= about $4k (with a possible $500 kicker), or a '71 Telecaster...


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Ranger01 said:


> Thanks for the info TMP!
> I dont really have the money or time to do a full and complete frame off(already got a '56 Chevy that Im gonna be rodding and using as a long term project), so I think Im gonna pass on this one.
> 
> So now its back to square one trying to find an old car that would be easy to get going as a running project. Max Budget= about $4k (with a possible $500 kicker), or a '71 Telecaster...


Yeah, I was thinking $3500 max and even at that it would take another $3500 to get it to a driver condition and by then we would be waaaaaaaaay upside down on it already. 
Too bad too, cause it's the most solid body old car I've seen around here in a long time, but there's just too much missing to consider it. In reality it's just a solid rolling shell.

I, too, have other vehicles I should concentrate on like the 67 Camaro in my sig pic and a 70 Chevelle rolling chassis and the 69 K10, etc. etc...I guess I'm addicted to the hunt/chase/purchase.........:lol:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I need another project, I have a 454 just waiting for a new home!


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Yea, Ive got my '56. Im still in the design stages of it.... Its gonna be strictly traditional too, but not a kustom. Its gonna be a straight up "normal kid" rod, none of that overly shiny stuff.
But still its gonna take me about 1 1/2- 2 years to do (it WILL be cheap tho, Im making sure of that.)


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