# Head and cam set



## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

In the future I am looking to do a set of heads and a cam. I have a 2004 GTO with a 421 bobcat kit, and intake and a custom tune. Car put down 360 rwhp. Is it possible with a set of heads and a cam to put down 450 to the to the wheels on my LS1? Also what is the best set of heads and cam on the market today?


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

Gonna be tough. And your streetability will be gone, but it can be done. 


TFS and AFR heads will be what you'll be looking for. Any cam manufacturer will be able to pick you out a cam based on your HP goals and head flow sheets. You'll also be upgrading to a FAST 90mm intake (plus porting) and a 90mm TB. Plus you'll need headers if you don't already have them.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

How will I lose streetability with by adding a set of heads and a cam to LS1 GTO? In the magazine HOT ROD they take an 04 GTO and do ls6 heads ported, cam and a magnacharger with alcohol injection. The car produces 600rwhp, runs 11.20s and its his daily driver


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

Then follow that formula..... 

Daily driver means different things to different people. I had a buddy who daily drove his 406 sb Chevelle with 4.56 gears and a 4000 stall converter. He had to rev the bag out of it to get it to go, but he drove it everywhere... 

Adding ported heads and a cam move the power and torque numbers up in the RPM range. While they take in more air, they also need more RPM to get the velocity back. Without velocity, the air won't fill the cylinder/combustion chamber as efficiently (expressed as Volumetric Efficiency, or VE) and your HP and combustion (read: detonation) will suffer.

A blower, obviously, forces air (i.e. forced induction) into the cylinder/combustion chamber, which will make up some velocity in the lower rpm range, given the type and size of the blower are correct.


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

You're asking a naturally aspirated motor to make 1.5 hp per ci (347 ci = 525+ hp). That's quite a bit. As an example, my old 462 ci Pontiac in my drag car made 1.5hp/ci = 700hp... That was a 14:1 compression, solid roller cam motor with EFI. It idled at 900 rpm (only because of the EFI, with the carb it was more like 1100 rpm), but peak power started around 3500 rpm and ended around 6800... 

While I drove it on the street (4.10 gears and a 4400 stall), I wouldn't call it real streetable.


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## silgoat05 (Jul 1, 2006)

i was looking to build a street/drag car also nice info!!!


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

Remember, for your money, the absolute best power adder you will ever be able to purchase is a turbo. Its not the cheapest initially, its the easiest on your internal engine and more power is VERY easy to add.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

The_Humbler said:


> Remember, for your money, the absolute best power adder you will ever be able to purchase is a turbo. Its not the cheapest initially, its the easiest on your internal engine and more power is VERY easy to add.


Humbler - What's you feeling on Nitros, 50 to 100 shot in a LS2?


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

As long as you keep the tune up conservative, should be fine. I would add a O2 monitor of some sort, at the very least. Just to make sure you don't lean it out. 

If I were doing it, I would probably add a dry kit and slightly bigger injectors instead of a wet kit and having to bleed off the factory fuel system or make a dedicated low pressure system. I would also have some sort tuner software so I could play with the AF ratio through the injectors.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

The_Humbler said:


> As long as you keep the tune up conservative, should be fine. I would add a O2 monitor of some sort, at the very least. Just to make sure you don't lean it out.
> 
> If I were doing it, I would probably add a dry kit and slightly bigger injectors instead of a wet kit and having to bleed off the factory fuel system or make a dedicated low pressure system. I would also have some sort tuner software so I could play with the AF ratio through the injectors.


Good food for thought, thank you!!!


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

04YJ-GTO said:


> In the future I am looking to do a set of heads and a cam. I have a 2004 GTO with a 421 bobcat kit, and intake and a custom tune. Car put down 360 rwhp. Is it possible with a set of heads and a cam to put down 450 to the to the wheels on my LS1? Also what is the best set of heads and cam on the market today?


I don't think you will make it to 450rwhp, maybe 400 with a good tune, I agree with The_Humbler on streetability. My mods are; 600 lift cam, ported heads, headers, 25% under drive pulley, k&n cai, slp LT headers, High flow cats, x-pipe and flowmasters. My rwhp (LS2) is 438 and it has a very rough idle and sucks in bumper to bumper traffic. The car literally jumps if I let the clutch to idle forward.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

I want to do heads and a cam when I get some money saved up after the holidays, but also later on I would like to add a magnacharger, what would be the best set of heads and cam that work best with a supercharged LS1


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

04YJ-GTO said:


> I want to do heads and a cam when I get some money saved up after the holidays, but also later on I would like to add a magnacharger, what would be the best set of heads and cam that work best with a supercharged LS1


You've got a dilema. If you want max hp NA, you'll want a set of heads with a smaller combustion chamber to give you more compression. With a blower, you want the exact opposite. 

Same with a cam. 

Make sure when you buy a set of heads, the valves are designed for a small bore (less than 4") motor.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

04YJ-GTO said:


> In the future I am looking to do a set of heads and a cam. I have a 2004 GTO with a 421 bobcat kit, and intake and a custom tune. Car put down 360 rwhp. Is it possible with a set of heads and a cam to put down 450 to the to the wheels on my LS1? Also what is the best set of heads and cam on the market today?


To anwser your question here you go: http://www.slponline.com/view_product.asp?P=12226 you can get the same results with a differant head and cam package they are out there or talk to you local tuner.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks gm4life good site


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

04YJ-GTO said:


> Thanks gm4life good site


Your welcome. This is what you have to remember anytime you put something together no matter what it is you have to make sure that your parts match if not you will have poor results. I've learned that from putting together computers, engines, ect. So if you have plans to build a high performing N/A motor make sure that you leave room or have the parts that will work with a supercharger as well. So my advice to you is to talk to a good tuner that will break it down to you and explane what parts will work for you. Tell him your goals and what you want out of your car.:cheers


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks again gm4life I think that head and cam set is just what I'm looking for b/c I do want to add a supercharger later on. 525hp at the crank is cery impressive from that setup. 525hp at the crank should be be around 425rwhp or more right?


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

LOL if you were just going to keep posting untill you got the answer you wanted, you could have saved me alot of time... 

That kit is:

A. Overpriced.

B. Incomplete

C. Watch out for piston to valve clearance. 

D. You won't make 525 hp at the crank with it in a stock LS1..


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

The_Humbler said:


> LOL if you were just going to keep posting untill you got the answer you wanted, you could have saved me alot of time...
> 
> That kit is:
> 
> ...


Car isn't stock and I didn't ask for your time or help. I intend on building the car right no matter the cost. This is also my first LS1. I have built 2 supercharged mustangs and I am not familiar with LS1 motors so this is why I have alot of questions and I don't need you or any other people to laugh at me b/c this is a new field for me. I have ask a couple of questions, everyone has been friendly and helpful to me on this forum(best forum:cheers ), except for you being the know-it-all a**hole


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

Do yourself a favor before you embarass yourself further. Go into the member intro's and check mine out. 

Then I'll accept your appology. 

P.S.

If you built a couple Mustangs before, what's the difference? You mean you bolted on a couple kits before? Then why don't you just do the same now?


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Maybe I went to far, but you also shouldn't embarass anyone who is asking for help


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

News flash: I'm the ONLY one who has helped you at all. 

I have/had no intentions of embarrassing you, nor was I laughing "at" you. I just think its funny that one post that has nothing but marketing hype and BS on it suddenly changes your outlook vs my documented, real world explanations and experiences. 

No matter what SLP or anyone else claims, getting 1.5hp/ci out of a NA motor without changing the compression ratio and/or using a cam that small (you'd have to with the stock pistons) will not get you anywhere near 450rwhp. 

The few people on LS1tech who have done it have all had to fly cut their pistons for a bigger cam and had to mill the heads to get 59cc - to get the compression they need to do it.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Ok I'm sorry, I hope we can put this behind us and be friendly with one another now :cheers


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

No problem. 

If I were you, to save money, I would just concentrate on whatever my final goal was for the car and save for that goal. It would be a shame to spend money on heads and a cam, then have to scrap it all to go with a forced induction setup a few years later.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

I see your point, well for now I would atleast like a nice cam to wake up my car. Can you or anyone else please point me in the right direction for a cam for my LS1 GTO


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## The_Humbler (Nov 18, 2007)

Try Tom over at Tbyrne Motorsports. He's a sponsor here and a friend of mine.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks


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