# Need a Quick Horn Solution



## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

The horn on my 64 does not work. I need it to pass TX inspection and registration.

Looking for a quick solution as I don't have a wiring diagram to trace the problem and need a quick fix.

Any thoughts?

I'm thinking about buying a $5 button from NAPA and running a straight wire from a hot point on the fuse box through the button and out to the horn. Will I need a relay for this jury rig? 

I'll fix it properly when I have time and a diagram.

THANKS!!
Rick


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Rick,

I don't have a diagram for the 64, but my 66 and 67 are pretty simple.

The horn button supplies negative to the relay on the firewall, if you have a volt meter place the negative lead on the battery negative and check the three wires and find the positive wire on the relay. Once you ID the positive wire trace the other wire to the horns. The remaining wire will go to the steering column and connect to the horn button.

You can test the horn button by placing your meter on OHM and connecting one lead to battery negative and the other lead to the horn button wire. Press the horn and if you show a short on the meter the horn button is ok.

To test for bad horns, place the neg lead on the batt neg and place the pos lead on the wire connected to the horn. Press the horn button, if your read 12V your horns may be bad.

To test the relay short the positive feed on the relay to the wire going to the horns, if the horn blows it will be a bad relay or button.

Be careful, the horn positive is not fused and can start a fire if shorted to negative. If you have any questions, give me a call.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

05GTO said:


> Rick,
> 
> I don't have a diagram for the 64, but my 66 and 67 are pretty simple.
> 
> ...



Thanks Randy, I'll start tracking it back. The previous owner installed a Grant wheel. I called him and he said the horn never worked so who knows what I'll find.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Both of mine did not work when I purchased the cars, Good luck,


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Not only does mine not work, but I can't find the relay anywhere. :confused A quick look at my new restoration guide shows a wiring diagram for a `69 but not for a `65.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

The fun begins, guess it's time to head to Sears for an ohm meter...


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

The relay should be under or near the wiring harness plugs on the firewall in the engine compartment.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Okay,

I believe the relay on the fender is the horn relay.

I found both horns, there are two wires in the area. A black and a green wire, both with single connectors.

The black wire was connected to the horn and fed back near the relay but not connected.

The green wire was wrapped around a frame mount and fed back to the bundle connected to the relay.

I tried both with no joy

Going to have to get a meter and chase it all back

Does anyone know the wire coloring for the horn button itself? What am I looking for under the dash?

Thanks,
Rick


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Normally black is for ground. The green wire "should" be the horn color and have two single terminals, one for each horn. I was trying to look at the horn relay on the inner fender but my attention kept going to the ALUMINUM heads and polished intake. Man, it looks like a nicely done resto under the hood. 
I know this isn't a priority right now, Rick but I hate those dual terminal batteries. If you are going to keep the side post cables, I urge you to get a side terminal ONLY battery. That positive post standing up bare is an invitation to a major short and possible fire. Try to find a piece of heater hose to slide on and cover it up for now. 

I'll see if I can uncover any info about the color of the wire inside the car, but I'm pretty sure I remember it being black in the column. I "think" the wire going from the relay to the firewall is the same color green as the wire at the horns. 
Now that you've teased us with engine pics, I gotta see the interior too. This looks like a really nice ride.:cool


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks Mitch, much appreciated and thanks for the compliments on the car. I posted an interior shot to the garage thread. 

I have a multimeter now so I can shoot some wire tonight. Really want to register this thing.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Don't mean to leech on this thread, but since we're talking horns not working, mine doesn't work either. When I hit either button I can hear the relay click each time I push one or the other. The wires at the steering wheel I'm assuming are fine. Since the relay was clicking I thought that must be fine, or, does it really mean it's bad?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

68greengoat said:


> Don't mean to leech on this thread, but since we're talking horns not working, mine doesn't work either. When I hit either button I can hear the relay click each time I push one or the other. The wires at the steering wheel I'm assuming are fine. Since the relay was clicking I thought that must be fine, or, does it really mean it's bad?


If the relay clicks, I would assume it's working for now too. Take a jumper wire and go directly from the battery to the horn and touch it. You'll know if the horn(s) work or not. :willy:If they work, look for a broken or disconnected wire between the relay and the horns.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Mitch,

Good tip, I tried the wire on my horns and they work. 

Neither horn is connected to anything and there are no open tabs on the relay.

Problem obviously somewhere between relay and horn button.

Thanks,
Rick


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Try testing the relay by applying a negative to the horn button wire on the relay. (be careful not to touch the unfused 12 volt + wire) If the relay activates and blows the horn the problem is in the horn button. This problem could be caused by not having proper ground under the dash and steering column.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I'd bet the problem is at the button, since you said it had a different/aftermarket wheel and button.

Duh, just saw your post that they aren't even wired in. Does the green wire have 2 terminals coming from it for the horns? Can you follow the green wire back thru the harness at all ?


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

The wire currently connected to the horn is blue and not connected to anything (see pic).

There is green wire in the bundle and and green wire with a connector dead ends near the horn. I'm thinking that wire should be connected to the horn. (See picture of bumper & relay).

I have not pulled back the tape on the harness yet, that's next.

Also posting a pic of the horn button to see if anyone notices anything wrong.

I don't know which post on the relay the horn should connect o.

Mitch, I can't do the picture thing (yet), not tracking with your reccomendation.

Rick


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Start with the steering wheel. It looks like the plate with the terminal is touching the wheel. There should be some type of spring insulator there to only let it touch when the button is pressed. It appears to be making a direct connection, which will sound the horn all the time, hence no wire to the horn.

The green wire at the bumper does appear to be the horn wire and match's the color at the relay. Have you tried attaching the loose green wire to the horn to see if it sounds ?
If the horn works, then it is back to the wheel to figure out why the plate isn't insulated. Looks like there might be a part missing. At that point a $5.00 button mounted on the bottom of the dash to ground the circuit to get the horn working for inspection will be the quickest way to remedy the situation.
Rick for the pics......when you open the reply window, along the top of the text box where the typing appears, there are a bunch of symbols. Find the smiley face on the top row...go 4 spaces to the right. That will be a left turning arrow. Right below that is the button to click to open the window where you "paste" the link to your pic. Once pasted, click OK and it should appear full size in the post...


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Mitch,

The green wire attached to the relay is the same wire going to the horn. I pulled it and jumpered a hot wire to it and the horn sounded.

The problem is either the relay, the horn button, or the wiring between.

I'm going to get a cheap universal tonight to get it through inspection and work the correct fix over the weekend.

Randy, I have a multimeter will test everything out this weekend.

Thanks all for your patience with me.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Koppster said:


> Mitch,
> 
> The green wire attached to the relay is the same wire going to the horn. I pulled it and jumpered a hot wire to it and the horn sounded.
> 
> ...


Keeps the boredom from overwhelming me while doing tax crap.......


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## Miami Ragtop (Feb 15, 2011)

05gto
I got this old responce you posted in 2009 on a horn relay question. I have horns that were working and now have decided not to work. I went through your great elimination process. Horn button ok on ohm test, horns will blow on shorting + to horn wire, I did not test the horns since I can hear them. I thought a bad relay was the cause so I bought one at NAPA just to test. I assume I have wired correctly, grounded to firewall, still no horn on pressing the button. Can a frayed wire in the car cause this type of problem? Any help would be appreciated I definitely need on in Miami.
Thanks,
Miami Ragtop


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Miami

FWIW, my horn problem ended up being the a combination of turn signal switch and horn contact

Rick


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## pontiac (Mar 6, 2011)

easier solution in Texas is antique plates, no inspections, no nothing. good for 5 years.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

I hear ya but then your annual mileage is limited


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Koppster said:


> I hear ya but then your annual mileage is limited


...and also "how" you drive it. Antique plates are supposed to be for occasional use only, driving to and from shows, in parades, and such like. Driving back and forth to work every day, for example, can get you busted regardless of the mileage.

Bear


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## Miami Ragtop (Feb 15, 2011)

Rick,
I have traced everything I know how to trace. I know the horns work, i ohmed the horn button it shorted, checked continuity of horn wire from relay to horn and from relay to
horn button, installed new relay to be sure and still no horn. How did you figure the problem was in the turn signal switch?
Thanks,
Miami Ragtop


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Testing my memory but the black wire from the horn relay goes through the turn signal connector to the contact button which if memory serves me correctly is part of the turn signal switch. I disconnected the turn signal at the column and applied power to the black wire and got the horn to work. In my case, the turn signal's connector was a mess as was the contact itself. Ordered a new switch and canceller and all is well. 64 wiring diagram link below.

ADDED: Okay, remembering more, couldn't get continuity between button and car side of turn signal connection...you can see the flaky wire in the 2nd and 3d pics, the turn signal connector was the primary culprit.

Pontiac wiring 1957-1965


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## mwatson1647 (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello, I noticed your procedure to test out the horn relay. I'm having the same issue with our 68 GTO. The horns themselves test out OK, and the wire to the horns rings out OK. The key alarm part of the relay works OK, but I can't get the horns to sound when either button is pressed on the steering wheel. The relay inside appears to be OK. I tried the test from the negative terminal to the horn button wire, and I get nothing when the horn switches are pressed on the steering wheel. If I jump a wire between relay lead 2 (horn switch) and ground, would that essentially simulate pressing the horn switch on the steering wheel? I think relay is OK, and if that works, I'm guessing the relay would then OK, and I'm open somewhere between the horn lead at the relay and the horn switches on the steering wheel. Thanks.


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