# G.m End Of A Era



## Guest (May 12, 2007)

G.M announced yesterday that after the 2008 model run of the Camaro, it will cease production of ALL rear wheel drive Vehicles. They stated it is too late now to stop production of the 2008 Camaro which will be out late 2008 and early production runs of the 2009 SS Impala and the Corvette..There is a big article about it in my local news paper this morning,, this mean disaster for a come back of the GTO and most likely mean the end of GM muscle cars all together..


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

That is really sad. As an 18 year old whose grown up in G.M. cars, I had planned on continuing with that trend. With no big rwd manual cars to buy, I will find it very difficult to purchase another G.M.. Hopefully this all does a 180.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

dizzy1 said:


> G.M announced yesterday that after the 2008 model run of the Camaro, it will cease production of ALL rear wheel drive Vehicles. They stated it is too late now to stop production of the 2008 Camaro which will be out late 2008 and early production runs of the 2009 SS Impala and the Corvette..There is a big article about it in my local news paper this morning,, this mean disaster for a come back of the GTO and most likely mean the end of GM muscle cars all together..


Corvette? I find that hard to believe! 

Quick, everyone go buy a Z06 and put it up on blocks in the garage.
For that matter, the Camaro will be very rare.


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## Guest (May 12, 2007)

*era*

It will make the Goat worth some cash.. yes it is hard to believe, but it said in the Paper. GM and others are being forced by the Government to increase gas mileage and polution related items so they have no choice,,I hope this does not happen but when you take a good hard look at GM, they really have NOTHING to offer the performance people, years ago they were top of the hill with a good selection of cars,, now there is nothing.. MOPAR is taking over where GM should be,, before you know it, GM will be making cars that only Grandfathers and Grandmothers would buy, nothing for the young at heart


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## mlyon (Oct 7, 2006)

Do you have a link? I am not sure I find this credible.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Yes, I find it hard to believe too...all front wheel drive trucks??? I don't think so...
Bill


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

so much for free market... glad i bought mine when i did. government controls the car market, cars start to resemble tractors/tanks, everything starts turning red...another red scare, communism at it's finest. look at wal-marx...


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

mlyon said:


> Do you have a link? I am not sure I find this credible.


:agree 

Please forward us a link or something so we can read it....._PLEASSSSSEEEEE!!!!!!_

Thanks!


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## GTO Roper (Oct 6, 2004)

*Here you go!*

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/04/general_motors_puts_rearwheeld.html

Doesn't quite sound like the end of the world..... yet.


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks for the link but if I read that right, it just states that GM is putting a HOLD on RWD cars. IMO, that sounds like there is a possiblity that GM will come out with RWD cars again in the future. I just don't see how GM can keep the Corvette, Lumina, and Monte Carlo out of their Chevy line up...Chevy would DEFINITELY be hurting the most with that!


Muscle cars are as American as apple pie and baseball....they can't get rid of 'em!:cool


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## Holden1984 (Feb 2, 2007)

with the corvette in international race circuits and the everlasting supply of corvette buyers, I would really find it hard to believe that they could put a total hault on rwd vehicles. It would not make sense at all and I think that either the local paper, or you yourself have completely misinterpret the situation. But I could be wrong?


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## Holden1984 (Feb 2, 2007)

silversport said:


> Yes, I find it hard to believe too...all front wheel drive trucks??? I don't think so...
> Bill


im sure they will do all wheel drive too. haha


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## GTO Roper (Oct 6, 2004)

GOATGIRL said:


> Thanks for the link but if I read that right, it just states that GM is putting a HOLD on RWD cars. IMO, that sounds like there is a possiblity that GM will come out with RWD cars again in the future. I just don't see how GM can keep the Corvette, Lumina, and Monte Carlo out of their Chevy line up...Chevy would DEFINITELY be hurting the most with that!
> 
> 
> Muscle cars are as American as apple pie and baseball....they can't get rid of 'em!:cool


Agreed, the article only addresses GM's U.S. products because the government wants better CAFE numbers. In the past trucks were not counted in the CAFE numbers. I can not see them touching the Corvette.. but, you never know! This reminds me of what happened back in the 70's when pollution control and gas availability/prices brought the performance/muscle car era to an end. I believe we are at the end of another cycle! The goodtimes for factory high H.P. cars might have peaked! What's going to happen to the modern muscle cars of today 30 years from now when you won't be able to license them or buy a "compatable" fuel?
This could put a whole different spin on "collecting" these cars!

Roper

BTW: Just filled up my C6... $3.67 per gallon. In Tacoma, WA


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## Guest (May 12, 2007)

*Gm*

The article stated that GM is putting the brakes on ALL rear wheel drive cars after the late 2008 and early 2009 production run on ALL rear wheel drive cars such as the Camaro.. SS Impala, Vette.. I just find this hard to swallow


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

Things can change very quickly. IE Two months ago we were hearing about a new lineup of rwd from pontiac, now we hear there will be none at all. Not a single person in their right mind would let the corvette go out of production without a fight, so we will just have to sit back and see what happens.


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## Guest (May 12, 2007)

*Gm*

Right now the Vette is the only true performance car GM has till the Camaro comes out,, I thought they really f--ked up when they dropped the GOAT.. They will have to keep some RW cars, if they don't MOPAR will rule the world, and FORD, l they will have the RUSTANG, but WHO cares about that one


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

What I would like to know is if GM has to put a hold on RWD, what about Dodge, Ford and all the other manufactures that have RWD vehicles as well.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

OK, looked at the article in link posted earlier. This is old news and pure bovine excrement.

This just a car exec spewing rhetoric for the benefit of legislators to try and impact future legislation. This crap goes on all the time. 

Bottom line.....GM will continue to make cars that people want to buy or they will cease to exist. And, these bozo's like Lutz don't want the gravy train to end. By walking away from an entire market segment (that is currently popular), they are saying "we can't compete with BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Nissan, Infiniti, or even Chrysler". Smart! It will confirm long held market perceptions about domestic makes.

Right now Lutz is looking like a horse's ass. "Were bringing great rear drive product to market". "We're gonna take our designers and go home". "No wait, we are gonna make Zeta, Beta, Alpha, Gamma, Sigma, whatever." "No we're not".

*Shut up!!!*

No wonder Toyota and Honda are overtaking these Bozo's. How can anyone take leadership like this seriously?


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Wow, GOATGIRL's checking in for a rare appearance... Howdy...

Wing_Nut's right, it's posturing. Lutz was on a television called Autoline Detroit last week. It's a interesting show on Speed Channel. It's on Sunday mornings. If you're into cars from a business standpoint, TiVo it.

Anyway, on that show, Lutz said GM's just pausing to think things over. The Camaro and G8's a go -- but, due to CAFE regulations, everything else is being looked at.

Lutz can be completely FOS at times, but he made two really good points on the program:

1. Why does Washington always blame the auto industry for energy consumption? CAFE hasn't worked for 30+ years -- so why keep screwing with it? If Washington's so concerned about imported oil, then why not allow the importation of sugar cane based ethanol from Brazil without a $50 a barrel tarriff -- and why aren't the oil companies required to put one ethanol pump in for every 8 petrol pumps that they operate? Good point to be sure.

2. The other one isn't related to this -- but was interesting as well. It concerned GM falling to number two in global sales behind Toyota. To this end, Lutz said that Toyota's barely beating GM -- even though Japan is essentially a closed market for automobiles. GM isn't allowed to build plants there -- and cars built outside the country, even in South Korea, are taxed out the wazoo -- thereby not allowing them to compete.

Anyway, if GM scraps all their RWD development work, they're nuts. Just goes to show you what can happen when corporate groupthink takes over. The bottom line? Build great cars and the rest will take care of itself.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

b_a_betterperson said:


> The bottom line? Build great cars and the rest will take care of itself.


Yep!


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> OK, looked at the article in link posted earlier. This is old news and pure bovine excrement.
> 
> This just a car exec spewing rhetoric for the benefit of legislators to try and impact future legislation. This crap goes on all the time.
> 
> ...



Well said I read this as throing in the towel. Pickup Trucks and SUVS do not sustain a Car Maker. There is a GM Delearship accross the street from the Toyota Delearship, you should see the difference in traffic on weekends at both locations.


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

b_a_betterperson said:


> Wow, GOATGIRL's checking in for a rare appearance... Howdy...
> 
> Wing_Nut's right, it's posturing. Lutz was on a television called Autoline Detroit last week. It's a interesting show on Speed Channel. It's on Sunday mornings. If you're into cars from a business standpoint, TiVo it.
> 
> ...


I do what I can!!! Miss you guys!


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## alptbird (Feb 20, 2006)

Thats funny tha article I read in Motortrend is that GM Is Stopping ALL NEW model of rear wheel drive production. the models they are keeping is a rear wheel drive buick what ever it is, the corvette the soltice the saturn sky(I don't know why) and the pontiac G8. yes the 4 door gto is still making production. as what motortrend had said is that the camaro is bust the gto is bust (in the u.s.) and any of there newer designs. the old models that they have in action previously listed are still going on. And the reason GM is doing this is because the government EPA standards are jumping up and and getting the athority to do something if they don't like it. and to the guys who think GM is just turning yellow and only making cars that grandma and grandpa will drive...not the case. everyone is about to be making cars that only grandma and grandpa will drive. because under the new law well as I read it in texas. is if you don't pass the strict guidlines of the epa at the inspection both you get anything from a small fine $100.00 to they impound your car you sit in the pokey for a couple of days and then you pay an arm and a leg and a few other body parts to get your car out. that you can't afford now because you sat in jail and lost your job... So every one had a right to look into that statment a little more because the corvette is not getting cut off it will live on.


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## calais&vette (Nov 29, 2006)

i have an Australian article based on the same link.... it is much different to what is said there (that article in the link seems to leave out info).
to majorly condense the article ive read.... GM will still produce rear drive cars, didnt say whether it will be in the US or not, but other countries still will... also, those rwd cars (select eg, GTO) made in other countries will most likely be exported to the USA


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## bg2m8o (Jul 25, 2006)

If you build it (a great product mix) they will come. Repeat.

GM has more engineering prowess, market knowledge and retail networking globally than the others combined. They need to focus on building great products that are class leading in every respect. They can do it. I hope they do. 

North America is a bizzare automotive market. Fickle, politically charged, riddled with gold chain wearin' dealers. The few great retailers out there are far and few between. Throw cheeseball sales systems, wierd (albeit getting better all the time) product (Earnhardt FWD Monte Carlo's OMFG) and you have a shaky system to say the least. 

1. Focus on first rate stuff the market wants (It is not just hairy chested RWD muscle cars)
2. Build-in quality from the initial design which starts with voice of the customer. Listen to it. Im a quality engineer, this part is HARD.
3. Make sure it is highly profitable at a price point the market will gladly pay.
4. If 3 cannot be done, part 2 was fouled up. Do it over, but better this time.
5. If it still cannot be done, do something else. 

Six Sigma process design is a passion of mine. It works. Almost nobody claiming to be good at it actually is. GM should be, they're not. Pisses me off. Toyota is, Ford is so-so, (the recent market success of the Mustang bears this out, I have no idea if FoMoCo is making any money with it, but if they aren't shame on em.


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