# Coming from a WRX, now I want some torque



## KingOfSiam (Feb 18, 2006)

As the title suggests, I have a 2.0 WRX, which I like, but the lag is pretty bad. 

After some thinking, I've decided that an 05+ GTO would be the perfect car for some good low end torque, as a compliment for my current ride.

Basically, I want what the WRX is not: lots of low end power. Seriously, like outrageous gobs of torque below 2000 rpm. Intake, EM, supercharger, whatever it takes.

I don't know much about big V8's or RWD, but I do know that they are very different from turbo H4's. 

So I figured I'd come here and see what knowledge you goat guys could give me for accomplishing my goal. 
Also, relative costs would be appreciated. From looking around, it seems like it'd be a bit more money than I'm used to spending for power mods.

Oh ya forgot to mention if anything will have to be done to an auto tranny to keep up with any extra power.


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

Search around on this site and all your questions will be answered. It depends on what kind of power you want 05/06 has 400hp 395lbft add 100 in anyway and your ok stock start going higher and it'll start costing you. Just like the WRX. How fast you go is dependant on your wallet size. Take a look around...


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## PHiL2 (Dec 6, 2004)

Get one and put a procharger on it...torque galore!


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## KingOfSiam (Feb 18, 2006)

Ya I searched a bit, found the super/turbo thread and some others, really I was thinking of your basic centrifugal supercharger setup. 

But I don't know about the specifics of the GTO. I mean, WRX's are pretty finacky when it comes to what works and what doesn't. 
I'll look around the intake/exhaust forum to see exactly how other mods affect the engine or a super setup.


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## PHiL2 (Dec 6, 2004)

I have an sti and it has plenty of torque for a 4 cyl. Is the wrx that much of a difference?


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

If I could answer all your questions I would but my memories about as good as a grapefruits. I'd just have to go searching myself. I'm sure if you've got any questions someone here's got the answer. Good luck!!:cheers


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## KingOfSiam (Feb 18, 2006)

PHiL2 said:


> I have an sti and it has plenty of torque for a 4 cyl. Is the wrx that much of a difference?


Yes, indeed. You would not believe how much of a difference the extra .5 liters makes on a car that depends on a turbo for power. 

With the right modifications (read: exhaust + EM), the 2.0 becomes more _drivable_, but it will never wet anyone's pants like a big V8 could down low.



Ironmancan said:


> If I could answer all your questions I would but my memories about as good as a grapefruits. I'd just have to go searching myself. I'm sure if you've got any questions someone here's got the answer. Good luck!!


That's about what I expected. I know these places are great for information when you look for it. 
Thanks!


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

KingOfSiam said:


> Ya I searched a bit, found the super/turbo thread and some others, really I was thinking of your basic centrifugal supercharger setup.


Go with a roots set up with screw impellers. Centrifugal superchargers do not add boost in a liner fashion -- you have to build revs before the output begins. The end result is just like low-end turbo lag. 

The screw impellers feed air smoothly all the time -- versus the wap-wap-wap of a helix type set up. FYI.


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## QwkRed05GTO (Oct 17, 2005)

I got rid of an 04 STi for the 05 GTO and although the stock 1/4 mile times are close they are two entirely different beasts. Low end torque in the GTO is huge compared to the STi especially in stop and go traffic. The regular WRX is a turd under 4,000 rpm. The car shudders and feels anemic unless you have boost built up. I do not regret the decision to buy the GTO. With about 2,000 in mods, I have dyno'ed 364 rear wheel hp which is good for 12.9 quarter mile times and a smile on my face.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

Like b_a said above, do NOT get a centrifugal supercharger if you're looking for low-end torque, you'll be severely disappointed. There are fundamental differences in the way the centrifugal and the positive displacement superchargers work which dictates when the max horsepower/torque is made.
With a positive displacement supercharger, you could have up to 80% of your total hp/torque at as low as 2200 rpm. Depending on which pulley and make/model you buy, it's possible to have the boost come on even lower.
The centrifugal would probably give you power which would feel similar to the turbocharger you have now, only without the lag. 
If you want maximum low-end torque, you need more displacement...either from a larger engine or a roots/twin-screw supercharger. That's just the way it works. 
By the way, I've driven a STi and I really wasn't impressed. It was semi-fun once you got WAAAAAAY up into the RPMs, but at low rpm, it was just a sloth. The dang thing didn't want to go anywhere unless you were above 4500 rpm. To me, low-end torque is what makes a car FUN. The more, the merrier as far as I'm concerned. :cool


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## KingOfSiam (Feb 18, 2006)

Awesome. Good to know.  

baron, you didn't like the STi? Hate to see what you think of a WRX. :lol:


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## 707GTOLS2 (Aug 31, 2005)

Yo Phil are you on LS1GTO.com? 
I gunna have to disagree with the STi 
when my brother bought one in 04 it was fun as hell to drive
I went from my 70 Nova with 460hp to a 300hp 4 banger
it wasn't as powerful but I almost had the same head snap when I dogged it driving it home for him


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

I guess the reason I didn't like it is because I'm very used to the detroit-type neck-snapping low-end torque. The vast majority of my cars/trucks have had large V8s, several with positive displacement superchargers on 'em. Once you get used to that kind of power, it's rather difficult to go back to anything that doesn't press your eyeballs into your skull from about 2000 rpm on up. 
The STi may not be a bad car, it's just not for me. On a positive note, it did handle like it was on rails. Lots of fun on a twisty highway as long as you can keep the RPMs up. I didn't drive the car extensively enough to give it a 100% thumbs up/down though. I'm sure it has quite a bit of potential. I'm not one to completely bash a car that I haven't owned.
Now, the mustang on the other hand...
bah humbug!
:lol:


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## PHiL2 (Dec 6, 2004)

707GTOLS2 said:


> Yo Phil are you on LS1GTO.com?
> I gunna have to disagree with the STi
> when my brother bought one in 04 it was fun as hell to drive
> I went from my 70 Nova with 460hp to a 300hp 4 banger
> it wasn't as powerful but I almost had the same head snap when I dogged it driving it home for him



yes I am!


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## 707GTOLS2 (Aug 31, 2005)

baron_iv said:


> I guess the reason I didn't like it is because I'm very used to the detroit-type neck-snapping low-end torque. The vast majority of my cars/trucks have had large V8s, several with positive displacement superchargers on 'em. Once you get used to that kind of power, it's rather difficult to go back to anything that doesn't press your eyeballs into your skull from about 2000 rpm on up.
> The STi may not be a bad car, it's just not for me. On a positive note, it did handle like it was on rails. Lots of fun on a twisty highway as long as you can keep the RPMs up. I didn't drive the car extensively enough to give it a 100% thumbs up/down though. I'm sure it has quite a bit of potential. I'm not one to completely bash a car that I haven't owned.
> Now, the mustang on the other hand...
> bah humbug!
> :lol:


Amen Brother!!!
I agree with you on your statement when I drove it home I wanted more time in it to see what it could really do but, my brother had to be an a hole and not let me drive it for a while


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## 707GTOLS2 (Aug 31, 2005)

just incase some of you guys think I'm lying about my Bro's STi


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## KingOfSiam (Feb 18, 2006)

^^^

They compliment each other well. Got all your bases covered between the both of ya.


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

Looks like the GTO's still ahead going backwards!


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## 707GTOLS2 (Aug 31, 2005)

Hahaha!!! thanks guys,
yea he doesn't want to race me anymore(after talking a whole lotta $h!t)
took him for a ride in her and he had the OHHH $H!T Face going the whole time we were out. The funny thin was I had the T/C on th whole time, but when I turned it off he almost $h!tted his Pants!!!


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## muohio (Sep 22, 2004)

My best friend purchased an STi last year and let me drive it a fair amount. As far as the snap your neck feeling, just rev it to 4k and drop the clutch. That feeling is far more intense than anything you will find in a sub 700hp car. I also like how it handled. The feeling of the backend rotating on you properly compared to the GTO which has a lot of push going into a turn is amazing. The worst part though is the amazing lack of power between 2000 and 4500rpm unless you are racing from a stop.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

To me, what makes a car fun is the amount of torque between about 1700 and 4000. That's where you spend the vast majority of your driving time, so it makes the most sense to stuff the torque/horsepower right in there. 
I just can't really get into and be happy with a car that doesn't produce significant power until 4000+ RPM. Realistically, you'll spend about 2-6% of your entire drive time above 4000 rpm. To me, that's a huge waste to put the power waaaay up there.


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## Badkarma (Feb 28, 2006)

I traded my 04 wrx in for the GTO (04) a couple weeks ago. I had the wrx for about 2 1/2 years and I loved the car for what it was. I put in a cobb ap stage 1 and it made the car much more driveable.

But, I drive 30 miles one way to work on the intersate and it finally got to me because there is little if any sound insulation in those things.

Everyone thought I went nuts when I got it (wrx) because I've always bought american cars with some power and said that the wrx wasn't "me". Now I believe them. This car is more me.....lotsa grunt when needed and nice enough to take a lady out. Not to mention everyone thought I was a teenager in the wrx.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

The GTO seems like a logical progression from the WRX to me. I mean it is a much more grown-up car than the WRX. Quieter, more civilized, yet still has those boy-racer roots for whenever you want to step on the loud pedal.


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## Paisan (Dec 4, 2005)

Interesting. My take is the GTO is a better daily driver than the subies in dry climates or as 2nd cars. The STi or WRX will be much better in the wet/snow and probably on the road course as well. I'm getting the GTO to drive to work etc and I have my Subie and Armada for the bad weather and the Subie for the road course as well. 

-mike


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## ADDBoy (Jul 6, 2005)

The origional question was how to get Low End Torque, and most of this discussion has been about turbos or super chargers- I think both of which are RPM dependent (someone jump in and educate me on constant volume sc's please). 

Why not go with a 3.91 rear end?


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

Centrifugal superchargers are far more rpm-dependant than positive displacement superchargers (roots and twin-screw). They can usually make 80% of their total boost by only 2000 RPM. 
I would like to learn more about constant volume superchargers though, I don't recall ever hearing of one. Sounds like an interesting concept.


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## ADDBoy (Jul 6, 2005)

Oops.. I meant positive displacement, thanks


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

BAH! You had me all excited, thinking there was another kind of supercharger that I could try. hehe
If you do a search for positive displacement, or roots/twin-screw, I've written quite a bit about 'em on this forum when people have asked questions. I'm not a guru or anything, but I've dealt with 'em enough to explain the basics. If you have any other questions after you've read the other forum posts, feel free to PM me, I'm always happy to answer questions about superchargers. :cool


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