# What Cold air Intake???



## Black Beast (Oct 31, 2006)

i just bought a 06 black gto a few days ago and came across this site and joined and was wanting some imput on what cold air intake to get???


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## Speedlyte (Sep 30, 2006)

There are a few cold air intakes for this car.......

Most highly recommended by Users 

LPE Cold air intake....I would purchase this one.....
Volant Cold air intake....sealed unit like the oem one....i'd rather get a k&n filter than spend $300 on it. But thats just me. 

K&N intakes with heat shield have been listed as good and bad....

here is the link for the LPE intake......
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/p02.html

Good luck in your modding.........


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

before you spend your money on something that had lots of personal stories and ABSOLUTELY NO DATA to back it up in daily use, i'd get myself educated on the subject. find out what the mod is supposed to do. in the case of an intake is is to supply air at low resistance (the measuement you need for that is MAP at WOT and in the high RPM ranges) and temperature (the measurement you need for that is IAT in real world operating conditions, especially from being stopped and heat soaked to as close to ambient as you can in a very short amount of time). everything else to be said about "Cold"(maybe) Air Intakes is dogma and placebo effect.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

Speedlyte said:


> There are a few cold air intakes for this car.......
> 
> Most highly recommended by Users
> 
> ...


:agree :agree (Spend the money & get the LPE)


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

that my friend is dogma. back it up with data... MAP and IAT


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## 2006GTOLS2 (Sep 23, 2005)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> :agree :agree (Spend the money & get the LPE)


LPE as stated above. I had it on my 05, and it is the best you can get....hands down.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

based on what? you guys just don't get it. you spend money on something, never test or try anything else and then spend your time trying to justify what you've spent. i guess you can lead a goat to water but you can't make 'em drink it.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

svede1212 said:


> based on what? you guys just don't get it. you spend money on something, never test or try anything else and then spend your time trying to justify what you've spent. i guess you can lead a goat to water but you can't make 'em drink it.


Based on what Lingenfelter's R&D says. Sorry but I'll take their word over yours, boss.


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## PapitoGTO (Aug 17, 2006)

Cold Air Intakes (in my opinion) should be used for race cars only. A/F is very hard to tune even with HP tune when using an intake. It has been proven time and time again, with all types of engines and mods. They do look great inside the engine compartment. But really serves no purpose for a daily driver but to screw up your MAF sensor and having your engine run rich. 

So the only reason you should have an intake give you bough a goat to race.

arty:


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## teamgs (Dec 29, 2005)

I am a little confused. (As is often the case! :lol: )

It looks to me that, for some/many people, there are two performance areas that are in question, related to CAI's, drop in's , etc. Those areas are: 

1. Higher airflow 
2. Colder intake air temps. 

The questions also seem to be split into two parts: 

1. Do the products actually deliver on their promise of higher airflow and colder intake air temps?
2. Does higher airflow and colder intake air temps translate to more HP in the average person's car?

Regarding the question of whether the products deliver on the promise of higher airflows and or colder temps: While I am always one to play Devil's advocate and to be cautious as to manufacturer's advertising, if these claims are indeed false, then there is an entire industry centered around what amounts to "snake-oil". I believe that K&N, for example, actually measures airflow with their systems, and compared them to stock units. I am fairly certain that if the end user were to take their CAI or drop-in out of the car, and connect them to a flow meter, that they would indeed see higher airflow than the stock unit. As for intake air temperatures with the CAI units, logic would dictate that any unit that forces the system to draw air from an area that is removed from the engine bay would provide colder air than a unit that draws from the heated engine compartment. Now, how well these CAI units perform this function, is definitely up for debate. I would really like to see some "real world" sensor data from the IAT's while driving at a series of set speeds and a fixed ambient temperature, both with the stock intake and the different CAI's. (Even better, include data from a seperate temp probe, to comparet this to the IAT sensor) This would definitely show whether or not the CAI's actually deliver colder air to the engine. Of course, this will probably never happen. 

Finally, and the most confusing to me, is the notion that reducing intake restrictions, which translates to higher airflow to the engine, doesn't help increase HP in some degree. Isn't this a tried and true principle from the earliest days of hot rodding? Isn't this the principle behind turbochargers and superchargers? What about colder air being beneficial to HP output? Isn't this the principle behind intercoolers? 

Assuming that the increase in airflow is within the range of the car's stock computer to adjust fuel flow to keep the optimal A/F ratio, wouldn't the result be more HP?

I assume that the manufacturers actually dyno a car with the stock intake, then again after installing their product, and report the differences. If we believe that they aren't blatantly lying to us, why wouldn't we be correct in assuming that we would also see similar increases in HP?

So ends my novel! :willy: :willy: 

Regards,

Gary


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## PapitoGTO (Aug 17, 2006)

The problem is the airflow turbulence that the aftermarket intake creates inside of the cone filter. The MAF sensor cannot adjust for the turbulence thus creating a rich fuel event. It does not matter at this point if the airflow is cold or hot. A few aftermarket intakes that have a dual funnel cone filter have minimized the turbulence and have been proven to work well with MAF sensors. But as far as I know there is none made for the GTO. The Apexi Intake is a dual funnel intake, but is only made for imports.

All the advertising that the manufacturers make about their intakes is true but only on race prep cars. They should state that it is for off-road use only. Plus they spend countless hours on the dyno tuning the intake for a specific event (ie: ¼ mile runs, full race, drifting and so on). And especially for HP gains. You as a daily driving cannot spend countless hours on the dyno just to drive to work and back or for a cruise downtown.


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## teamgs (Dec 29, 2005)

That's an interesting point of view. I wonder why, then, the mfg's don't simply create something with a longer tube between the filter and the MAF, and possibly some straightening vains. I think I am going to email some of the mfg's and ask them some specifics about the testing procedures and prep of the test vehicles. It would be interesting to see what they have to say.

Thanks for the info!

Gary


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

teamgs said:


> I am a little confused. (As is often the case! :lol: )
> 
> It looks to me that, for some/many people, there are two performance areas that are in question, related to CAI's, drop in's , etc. Those areas are:
> 
> ...


your assumptions are correct about flow and temps. first, the pod type filters flow better than the stock unit. this becomes really important as the modding goes on (headers, TBs, heads, cam, etc). there are better flowing (larger) pods than the ones used in the common units which are smaller because of space restrictions. some with forced induction way overtax any of them. 
two, the manufacturers aren't blatently lying but shading the truth. understand that to measure RWHP (which isn't as important as TQ but it's a lot sexier and thus sells) cars are strapped on a dyno. the hood is opened and a fan blows on the engine bay (and intake) to keep the car cool because it's not moving. this effectively removes the hot air from the engine bay which is where most of the air going into the intake is coming from. they make sure the car is tuned to take advantage of the greater air flow get their peak HP# and run to the presses with the news release.
you unstrap the car, close the hood and take it down to the corner and bingo, hot air starts getting ingested. the engine is an air pump. cooler air is denser. the PCM reads the hotter air temp and modifies how much fuel it's putting in to compensate for less density. the stock tune also starts pulling timing starting at 86* to keep the engine from knocking. knock happens easier with hotter air charges. at 98* it's 2* of timing, 104* it's 3* and 113* it's 5*. that reins in a lot of ponies too. BTW that 113* is really easy to hit with the units we're taking about on a 80+* day. 
If you look up this thread and go towards the bottom you'll see data from the same day in back to back runs with two different intakes. the interesting thing is the MAP and IAT. the comparison is against a K&N and at the start of the run it's 28* above ambient and at the end it's still 18* above ambient. it was a cool day but in the summer that would be very significant. i've tested the LPE and it works just about exactly the same. apparently the air isn't aware of LPE's reputation.
look, they work a little, they're over priced but easy to do and from what i've seen most don't know how to launch the car to take advantage of any of the car's HP but they make for great dyno bragging rights so i guess they'll keep selling them.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

The "beating a dead horse" smilie has to be around here somewhere.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

i'd like a beating dead brains smilie


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

I just dropped a K&N filter in and seems to do better than stock. Don't know about all the other stuff. O yeah, it seems to last longer.....:rofl:


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

svede1212 said:


> i'd like a beating dead brains smilie


Likewise.


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## GOGOGTO (Aug 25, 2006)

*I run an AEM cai. On my 04 with a Granetelli MAF...*

Here it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## phantomblackgto (Mar 16, 2006)

If the MAF can't properly determine the correct A/F ratio, and results in the mixture being too rich (as proposed by PapitoGTO), then why is there no reduction in fuel mileage? If anything, my fuel mileage has shown a very slight increase since installing the LPE CAI.

I would also tend to disagree a little with some who propose that the LPE intake uses the same air inlet as stock, thus producing no additional airflow to the filter. The stock intake is completely enclosed except for the inlet tube that runs to the inlet hole above the left headlamp. The LPE intake, while also sealed from the engine compartment, actually allows additional airflow through holes located in the fender well (which should be closer to ambient temperature) as well as appears to be less restrictive to airflow coming through the main inlet hole. In addition, the LPE intake can be easily modified to allow an additional inlet tube to be routed down and out past the alternator to allow true ambient air to be pumped in from under the front grill (while the stock intake could also be similarly modified, the LPE provides more "working" room to accomodate this). And, if you really want some airflow for an occasional 1/4 mile run, simply remove the left headlamp assembly and you will have all the air you need (at least without having forced induction).


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

phantomblackgto said:


> If the MAF can't properly determine the correct A/F ratio, and results in the mixture being too rich (as proposed by PapitoGTO), then why is there no reduction in fuel mileage? If anything, my fuel mileage has shown a very slight increase since installing the LPE CAI.
> 
> I would also tend to disagree a little with some who propose that the LPE intake uses the same air inlet as stock, thus producing no additional airflow to the filter. The stock intake is completely enclosed except for the inlet tube that runs to the inlet hole above the left headlamp. The LPE intake, while also sealed from the engine compartment, actually allows additional airflow through holes located in the fender well (which should be closer to ambient temperature) as well as appears to be less restrictive to airflow coming through the main inlet hole. In addition, the LPE intake can be easily modified to allow an additional inlet tube to be routed down and out past the alternator to allow true ambient air to be pumped in from under the front grill (while the stock intake could also be similarly modified, the LPE provides more "working" room to accomodate this). And, if you really want some airflow for an occasional 1/4 mile run, simply remove the left headlamp assembly and you will have all the air you need (at least without having forced induction).


Brace yourself. Svede1212 will be all over this one.


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## bigdawg77 (Nov 5, 2006)

Pennsylvania Goat said:


> The "beating a dead horse" smilie has to be around here somewhere.









how bout that?


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

Go with the LPE. You will notice a difference.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

phantomblackgto said:


> If the MAF can't properly determine the correct A/F ratio, and results in the mixture being too rich (as proposed by PapitoGTO), then why is there no reduction in fuel mileage? If anything, my fuel mileage has shown a very slight increase since installing the LPE CAI.
> 
> I would also tend to disagree a little with some who propose that the LPE intake uses the same air inlet as stock, thus producing no additional airflow to the filter. The stock intake is completely enclosed except for the inlet tube that runs to the inlet hole above the left headlamp. The LPE intake, while also sealed from the engine compartment, actually allows additional airflow through holes located in the fender well (which should be closer to ambient temperature) as well as appears to be less restrictive to airflow coming through the main inlet hole. In addition, the LPE intake can be easily modified to allow an additional inlet tube to be routed down and out past the alternator to allow true ambient air to be pumped in from under the front grill (while the stock intake could also be similarly modified, the LPE provides more "working" room to accomodate this). And, if you really want some airflow for an occasional 1/4 mile run, simply remove the left headlamp assembly and you will have all the air you need (at least without having forced induction).


laughable. 
have you ever had the stock intake out? how does it block air from the fender? the stock unit pulls from that hole in the fender too and they also both pull from the louvers on the radiator shroud. 
there is practically NO space around the headlight at all. LOOK. LOOK LOOK. the LPE is sealed? it has minimal shielding with big gaps, just like the stock shield. as a matter of fact the stock unit may seal better. the LPE has a bigger filter. i've had all of the intakes apart many times.
STILL NOTICE NOBODY HAS POSTED IAT NUMBERS.
as far as feeling 8-10 HP... :willy:


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

Next


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## bluebyeu05 (Mar 14, 2006)

before i got my intake i did reseach and i went with the cs performance. why its carbon fibor and the use them on the holden vehicals down in australia . will say this though well worth it .


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

bigdawg77 said:


> View attachment 762
> how bout that?


Perfect. Now we need the teachers voice from 'Peanuts.' (whaa wa wa waaa)


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## nagoat (Oct 21, 2006)

bigdawg77 said:


> View attachment 762
> how bout that?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## phantomblackgto (Mar 16, 2006)

svede1212 said:


> laughable.
> have you ever had the stock intake out? how does it block air from the fender? the stock unit pulls from that hole in the fender too and they also both pull from the louvers on the radiator shroud.
> there is practically NO space around the headlight at all. LOOK. LOOK LOOK. the LPE is sealed? it has minimal shielding with big gaps, just like the stock shield. as a matter of fact the stock unit may seal better. the LPE has a bigger filter. i've had all of the intakes apart many times.
> STILL NOTICE NOBODY HAS POSTED IAT NUMBERS.
> as far as feeling 8-10 HP... :willy:


I don't know what you're looking at, but if you are referring to the silver-dollar sized hole in the side of the stock intake, no way can it be pulling in much, if any, air from the holes in the fender well. Installed, it is up against the fender well (and there ain't no holes around it). Maybe you have a different GTO than I do. When I remove the front left headlamp assembly, I can stick both of my forearms through the opening all the way to the filter and still have room left over. LOOK, LOOK, LOOK! Or do I need to post a couple of pictures. I don't have any fancy gadgets to measure IAT numbers, but a little common sense can tell you that the air that could enter through the headlamp assembly (if removed) would be about as ambient as you're going to get (without some type of intercooler). Perhaps you're not happy with your SS intake for whatever you paid for it. I'm happy with my $250 LPE. No way are you going to put a high-flow filter in the stock intake, and I would think even you would agree that some heat shielding is better than none, which is what you would get with an open hanging filter. Let's just say we agree to disagree and leave it at that.:cheers


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## bigdawg77 (Nov 5, 2006)

that works too


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

:agree


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## teamgs (Dec 29, 2005)

BTW, K&N replied back and stated that the majority of testing is performed on an unprepped employee's or customer's car.

I received no reply back from Lingenfelter.

Regards,

Gary


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## SloTymer (Sep 16, 2005)

K&N R&D has something to say also. Plus it looks just like the StinkenFelter.:rofl:


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## oldsow (Aug 6, 2006)

If you want some HP, don't waste your $250 -$300 on a CAI, put in a cam, or different heads. 7 - 8 hp for a CAI for that money. Put the hammer in that goat, shes a muscle car.


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## 06GTO (Sep 14, 2006)

Intake is important as well, I'm waiting for my heads and cam now.


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

Sooooo after reading all this, what intake would you guys RECOMMEND? I used to have a K&N drop in filter in my Evo, and it seemed to run better than all my friends Evos with actually K&N intakes. Opinions?


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## PapitoGTO (Aug 17, 2006)

MrPopular said:


> Sooooo after reading all this, what intake would you guys RECOMMEND? I used to have a K&N drop in filter in my Evo, and it seemed to run better than all my friends Evos with actually K&N intakes. Opinions?


Probably the LPE. But I also had an Evo8 and the aftermarket intakes were causing erratic dyno graphs even when tuned. I had the goat tuned with the LPE and it showed a 4whp 4wtq gain over the K&N drop-in filter with no erratic dyno graph. But it was tuned with the DiabloSport. I would imaging that the HP tune will pull more HP out of the intake.


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

PapitoGTO said:


> Probably the LPE. But I also had an Evo8 and the aftermarket intakes were causing erratic dyno graphs even when tuned. I had the goat tuned with the LPE and it showed a 4whp 4wtq gain over the K&N drop-in filter with no erratic dyno graph. But it was tuned with the DiabloSport. I would imaging that the HP tune will pull more HP out of the intake.


Was your drop in tuned with the Diablosport as well?


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## PapitoGTO (Aug 17, 2006)

MrPopular said:


> Was your drop in tuned with the Diablosport as well?


Yes, both were tune with the DiabloSport.

With the K&N Drop-in: 343whp 345wtq

With the LPE: 347whp 349wtq


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## MrPopular (Nov 27, 2006)

PapitoGTO said:


> Yes, both were tune with the DiabloSport.
> 
> With the K&N Drop-in: 343whp 345wtq
> 
> With the LPE: 347whp 349wtq


Cool, thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be getting the LPE.


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