# automatic or manuel



## theromanone (Apr 5, 2006)

i've never drivin a manual (i know, i know), maybe been in one twice, so is an '05 gto manual out of the question? i'm a fast learner, but is it really that much (if at all) faster than automatic?


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## MAXAMOOSE (Mar 2, 2006)

Your Call. I Find On My M6, That It Is A Really Easy Man. Trans To Use. If Your Looking To Keep The Goat For A Long Period And The Stick Is What You Want Then Go With It.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Manual all the way. Unless you're 90 years old with bad knees, arthritis in every joint and have had repetitive hip replacements then the auto is better.


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

I choose an auto because of the amount of driving that I do....my goat is my daily driver so it really wasn't practical for me to keep pushing in a clutch 24/7!

I really like it though so it's up to you and how you will be using it!


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I know a Manuel, but I dont know anyone named Automatic.


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

JMVorbeck said:


> I know a Manuel, but I dont know anyone named Automatic.


:rofl: :agree :rofl:


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## criminally_sane (Mar 30, 2006)

Driving a stick in this area would have been a pain, so I chose an automatic. As far as the perfomance difference, for an 04, there was only a .01 second sifference between the two. At least as far as I was told.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

The autos I have seen so far have been faster than the stick.(driver diffrence,maybee?) But I chose the manual because of the HUGE diffrence in gas milage. If you get both cars driving 60, the auto will be running almost 900rpm's higher than the stick.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

automatic:










manuel:


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

:rofl: LMAO.     :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## TulsaGTO (Oct 3, 2004)

If I remember right, the 05/06 auto is 1/10 quicker than the manual.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

BTW it's a _performance_ car- to buy it as an automatic is to kneecap its capabilities. An automatic can never anticipate- allow the driver to select the proper part of the pawerband-- like a manual allows.

The automatic is only "quicker" in a straight line (and even then barely so)...irrelevant for people who enjoy curves and apexes.

I drive more than anyone here through some of the worst traffic in the country, and I wouldn't trade my 6-speed for any slushbox...unless, of course, GM can come up with a "clutchless" sequential manual gearbox like Audi's DSG.


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## MAXAMOOSE (Mar 2, 2006)

WELL STATED, GROUCHO:cheers


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## criminally_sane (Mar 30, 2006)

Groucho said:


> BTW it's a _performance_ car- to buy it as an automatic is to kneecap its capabilities. An automatic can never anticipate- allow the driver to select the proper part of the pawerban-- like a manual allows.
> 
> The automic is only "quicker" in a straight line (and even then barely so)...irrelevant for people who enjoy curves and apexes.
> 
> I drive more than anyone here through some of the worst traffic in the country, and I wouldn't trade my 6-speed for any slushbox...unless, of course, GM can come up with a "clutchless" sequential manual gearbox like Audi's DSG.


Ouch!!! You cut us "slushbox" owner deeply!


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## theromanone (Apr 5, 2006)

thanks for the input, ha yes i know its a sports car and is meant to be manual but if the auto is faster (even if only .1), requires no constant shifting, and i wont be racing at the track or through turns, etc., i think auto is right for me. is the gas mileage for manuals that much better for city driving?


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## gage (Mar 2, 2006)

At first I was gnna buy auto cuz this is my first stick car.

I'm SOOO glad I went M6. It just seems to me the car wouldnt be as much fun as your pulling on some joker waiting for the redline so you can slam her in gear and continue your dominance.


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## gage (Mar 2, 2006)

Oh people and just as an aside I havent taken my car to redline yet (only 550 miles) farthest i've gotten was about 5500 and I thought I was gonna end up dead in a ditch somewhere. exhilerating


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

Groucho said:


> unless, of course, GM can come up with a "clutchless" sequential manual gearbox like Audi's DSG.


Mmmmmm.... the Audi's DSG...... oh sorry, I have to clean up.:rofl:


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

4L65e Auto

$1,300 Gas Guzzler Tax
Slightly worse city mileage
Much worse highway mileage
Much easier to live with in heavy traffic

Tremec T56 (+ Paleolithic precision shifter)

No Guzzler Tax
Better mileage
Yank and Clunk shifter
Ability to decide proper engine speed and gear (after negotiation w/shifter)
Respect from all of the real men on this forum

Either one is fine. Assess your situation and make your choice.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> 4L65e Auto
> 
> $1,300 Gas Guzzler Tax
> Slightly worse city mileage
> ...


Well put, Wing.

I would submit that the GMM Ripshifter aids considerably in "negotiating" for your gear selection...it's kinda like plying the T56 with hookers and booze.


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## CrabhartLSX (Feb 12, 2006)

"manuals impress high school kids, autos win races"

That being said i'd love a manual goat with a GMM.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

I’ve had manuals for so long that I try to shake automatic shifters back and fourth for neutral – everything from gas sippers to BFTs with 13 gears. Guess what, I’m sick of it. In this era of traffic hell and two foot driving morons that hit their breaks when the closest car is in the next state – it’s just too much.

Anyone that deals with killer traffic can tell you how quickly a stick becomes a pain. You don’t think about it in normal driving at all; however, once you hit that stop-and-go traffic that never speeds above 5 MPH, it’s errrrr.

You have a lot of manual drivers that buy the auto. Doesn’t that tell you something? Now, if you live out in the middle of ‘Marrying Cousins USA







’, get the stick.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I started with a standard with my first ride, and then went to automatics from there on out. 11 years later I bought a new car and choose the 5 speed. I knew then I would be driving manuals for the forseable future, and I wouldnt even consider the auto when I went shopping for the Goat. I wont be considering the auto when I trade in the Goat on the Challenger in a few years either. Rush hour is rush hour in every metropolis and clutching in traffic is a small small price to pay for the control of a manual gearbox.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Volvo station wagon = automatic

Anything with a GTO nameplate just seems to go better with a stick!


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

Okay, so you'd take a column shifted manual over a console mounted automatic?

I’ll take a manual or an automatic, but I draw the line when they put it on the column. I even ordered my Lincoln with the console shifter. Plenty of muscle cars had autos. My 71 Challenger had the slapstick and it was killer. Now, when I see a GTX or Road Runner with a column shifter, I want to find the original owner and beat them with the steering column.

The GTO has a very responsive auto. It’s quick, sturdy, and is the perfect platform for Nitrous and quarter mile runs.


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

When I saw the title of this thread, I just had to look for a Groucho response 

As to the benefits/drawbacks of auto vs manual, Wing_Nut summed it up very well.

I have to say that most of my cars have been autos. I didn't learn to drive a stick right way (I think I had my liscence about 3 years before I learned a stick). After that, once I got it down and was no longer stalling and stuff, I developed a preference for a stick. I did need to buy another car shortly after, and bought a stick. 

After that car, I ended up mostly with autos. Some cars are only made with an auto (very few seem to come as stick only) and even when a car is made with both a stick and an auto, auto seems to often be the default transmission, and it is often harder to find a stick.

However, even though it was 10 years between owning my first stick shift car and buying the Goat, it always felt odd driving an automatic in those intervening years. I always felt like my left foot was wasting doing nothing. I drove with my right hand on the auto console shifter. For many years I drove with my left foot up where a deadpedal would be if the car had one. Finally, the agony just got to me and, since I was buying the Goat, I bought a stick. 

Since the OP does not know how to drive a manual yet, I would recommend that he try driving some manual cars. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to find one at a rental office--most rental cars are auto, but I did get a rental U-Haul once that was a stick (though please keep in mind that most full sized pickups will not give the best impression of a stick). If you have a friend or family member that has a stick car, particularly if its kind of a beater they don't care about so much, maybe you can convince them to loan it to you.

I just think you should try to see if you can use a manual before buying the Goat--it would suck to spend that money on the car, and find out you bought the wrong transmission (it could be 'wrong' with either one, depending).


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## fullarmor2 (Mar 1, 2006)

I have the manual, had it about two months now. There has been more than one occasion when I thought to myself I'm glad I got the stick. Its just more fun when you get use to it, plain and simple. Especially with a sports car like this. I like all the variety of different ways I can unleash all this power in the gear of my choice and RPM range of my choice. Sixth is awesom on road trips also, you can cruise at 80 plus mph like nothing. And your only slightly over 2000 RPM's. Ok, thats all. :cheers


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Well put, Wing.
> 
> I would submit that the GMM Ripshifter aids considerably in "negotiating" for your gear selection...it's kinda like plying the T56 with hookers and booze.


Yeah, it seems that quite a few of you are happy with aftermarket shifters. I'm gonna have to get off my butt and try one. The stock shifter is just annoying. If the GTO had a nice smooth gear changing handle, the car would be a lot more enjoyable. No sense putting up with the stock unit for the small price of a replacement.


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## kerno (Apr 6, 2006)

I have a 2006 M6 and I paid attention to the majority opinion on this forum and installed the GMM Rip shifter. I like it and am glad I got the M6. BUT, I have the advantage of the GTO being my personal car. If the weather is ugly, I drive something else. If I have to park somewhere, I drive something else. If I had purchased the car to be my primary transportation, it would have been the A4. Now here's a statement that ought to start fights: If I had bought it to drag race _I'd have bought the A4_! Give me a decent torque converter and no other mods and I'll happily face off against anybody in a stock M6 (OK, they can have a Rip Shifter). If I decide to turbo it, the auto works very, very well. If I put a Maggy on it, the auto will keep the rev's up better than I ever can especially since I have to shift it 2 more times than I used to with a Muncie four speed. Oh, will somebody please make a Tremec that sounds like an M-22? But wait, the Tremec is really a four speed! (read on).

Anyway, to me the decision has to be based on how the car will be used. An M6 and a cup of coffee is a pain. I know, I shouldn't be drinking coffee in the car, but we all do. But if both you and your wife have to drive it and it may ever see car seat duty, pick the A4. If it is going to get over 12,000 miles a year, pick the A4. If nobody but you cares how, when and why you drive it get the M6. 

I'm going to take issue with the post which said the automatic turns 900 more RPM at 60 mph. Here are my calculations: Both the M6 and the A4's have a 3.46 axle. The 4L65-E auto is .696 to 1 in 4th and the Tremec is an astoundingly low .50 to 1 in 6th. A 245/45-17 tire turns 809 revolutions per mile, so it is also turning 809 rpm at 60 mph. So, for the A4, 809 x .696 x 3.46 is 1948 rpm at 60 mph. That's not exactly buzzing the motor and no place you'd like to start a race from without downshifting. But wait, there's more: For the M6, 809 x .5 x 3.46 is 1400, so the difference is 548 rpm. That's still more of a difference than I would of expected and is also a good reason why the M6 is going to be more than just a little lazy at 60 mph in 6th. Looking at the ratios, 4th is 1.00 and 5th is still only .74. You might think of it as a good old fashioned M21 wide ratio four speed with two extra overdrives! In 5th at 60 you're only turning 2072 in the M6. The Tremec's first four ratios are 2.64, 1.78, 1.30and 1.00 to 1. The numbers are unbelievably close to the ratios in the wide ratio Muncies. Take something like a 68 GTO with the M21 and 3.42's. The wide ratio was 2.56 in first which sure is close to the Tremec's 2.64 And 4th in the muncie was 1.00 to 1, exactly like the Tremec. Can you imagine if you'd driven your new 68 GTO out of the dealership and had to shift from first to 4th! FYI, The 18 inch tires are only 2% different than the 17's, so the numbers are very close to the same.

Going back to the A4/M6 controversy and "significant others". My wife drives a twin turbo'd automatic (no, I'm not going to name it) which I'm not allowed to drive. I only got it sideways twice with her in it and for some reason she got kinda excited and now doesn't trust me in "her" car. But ,to be honest, I don't trust me, either. That car kinda makes me stupid and she'll really be mad if I wadded it up.......So I have mine and she has hers and we also have a big four door for those "but we've got to gave a car that carries more than two people" occasions.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

Great post Kerno, except for not saying what kind of car your wife has. It's cruel to say twin turbo then not give the make.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> Yeah, it seems that quite a few of you are happy with aftermarket shifters. I'm gonna have to get off my butt and try one. The stock shifter is just annoying. If the GTO had a nice smooth gear changing handle, the car would be a lot more enjoyable. No sense putting up with the stock unit for the small price of a replacement.


It's a huge difference. That rubbery, vague thing the car ships with is acomplete turd, but in the world of aftermarket shifters the B&M is a Timex to the GMM's Breitling. The GMM has detents and solid gates with none of the "play" of the B&M, and GMM mounts in a way that makes sense. It's harder to put on, but well worth it.

Avoid the B&M like the plague-- it's a bag of snakes. Due to a poor overall design the B&M often comes loose, creating leakage problems. It's even come off the tranny on me- twice.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Mike_V said:


> Okay, so you'd take a column shifted manual over a console mounted automatic?
> 
> This is an absurd response. What cars are made today with with the "3 on the tree"? You're probably too young to even know what that means.


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

Look...when it all boils down to it, it's just a matter of preference and your driving habits. I KNOW how to drive a stick (very well as a matter of fact!) and I've been driving for over 20 years, but due to praticality issues, an auto was in my best interest. Now if I didn't have to do so much city driving and if my goat was not my daily driver, I probably would've opt for the M6...


In the long run though....WHO CARES!!!!! We all have an awesome car that most people would be jealous of whether it be a stick or auto....



*CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET A LONG!!!*arty: :cheers


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

GOATGIRL said:


> Look...when it all boils down to it, it's just a matter of preference and your driving habits. I KNOW how to drive a stick (very well as a matter of fact!) and I've been driving for over 20 years, but due to praticality issues, an auto was in my best interest. Now if I didn't have to do so much city driving and if my goat was not my daily driver, I probably would've opt for the M6...
> 
> 
> In the long run though....WHO CARES!!!!! We all have an awesome car that most people would be jealous of whether it be a stick or auto....
> ...



THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE:An American privilege!:cool


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

noz34me said:


> This is an absurd response. What cars are made today with with the "3 on the tree"? You're probably too young to even know what that means.


At 40, I doubt it. I had them and hated them, but what can you do when you buy what you can afford at the time.

I was trying to make the point GOATGIRL hit on, it’s preference; and, one preference can outweigh another. In my case, I preferred to easily deal with Chicago traffic, however, if the auto were only on the column my preference for a floor shifter would have changed my decision and I’d have the manual.

Auto or manual, it’s a great car. So what if the automatic’s faster, more convenient, and all round better, go with what you like. BAM!


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## 03xtreme (Apr 14, 2006)

my truck has the nvg 5spd and although it's slow as mulasses in january in wisconsin outside sitting on a frozen pond for a month........ it is more fun than any auto i've driven, not that i've driven many great cars.

i do get annoyed more so with other people's 99% automatic tranny owning societey in bumper to bumper traffice because they ride your butt... then slam on the breaks.

i like the leave 5 or so car lengths to breathe and not go in and out of the clutch.......so i just put it in first and ride it out and people cut me off and all that bs and well you know the story.

problem is... admit it, our lazy societey finds the standard to inconvienent and a pain, so most people want the auto. only eco freaks and performance guru's want the stick, average ma and pa want to put it in gear and forget about it.

with a stick in my truck i got 30mpg doing 80 behind a uhaul from buffalo to pa, not ever would my 98 dime with the auto slipping pig double deuce get that (well maybe on a trailer it would've) and i can coast FOREVER, i too drove the auto's like a stick and took it out of gear when i stopped.


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## 03xtreme (Apr 14, 2006)

in traffic you can tell who's got the stick... we leave the space lay back and get cut off by the automatics who double foot it, lol


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## fullarmor2 (Mar 1, 2006)

Mike_V said:


> I’ve had manuals for so long that I try to shake automatic shifters back and fourth for neutral – everything from gas sippers to BFTs with 13 gears. Guess what, I’m sick of it. In this era of traffic hell and two foot driving morons that hit their breaks when the closest car is in the next state – it’s just too much.
> 
> Anyone that deals with killer traffic can tell you how quickly a stick becomes a pain. You don’t think about it in normal driving at all; however, once you hit that stop-and-go traffic that never speeds above 5 MPH, it’s errrrr.
> 
> ...


 :agree Yea, pretty much the only time an auto is preferable, is in heavy traffic. Or maybe in certain performance applications.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

03xtreme said:


> in traffic you can tell who's got the stick... we leave the space lay back and get cut off by the automatics who double foot it, lol


It’s the opposite for me. With an auto, I have a slight feeling of uneasiness tailing someone. I can stop a manual way faster than an auto. However, I must say the GOAT has incredible stopping power. I’m able to stop so fast that I’m always checking the mirror for the dreaded female SUV driver talking on her phone, while digging through her purse, and holding her no foam latte.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Mike_V said:


> However, I must say the GOAT has incredible stopping power.


Obviously, you don't have an '04. 

Stopping a stock '04 quickly requires this: 










:lol:


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

Makes sense, change one letter and GOAT is BOAT. Yup, I thought that up all by myself. Anyway, now I know who’s causing all the potholes.


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Manual all the way. Unless you're 90 years old with bad knees, arthritis in every joint and have had repetitive hip replacements then the auto is better.


Hey I'm not 90, no bad knees and i can squeal the tires just as good as any ole boy in his manual,and am a female driver who races whenever i can!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

GOATGIRL said:


> Look...when it all boils down to it, it's just a matter of preference and your driving habits. I KNOW how to drive a stick (very well as a matter of fact!) and I've been driving for over 20 years, but due to praticality issues, an auto was in my best interest. Now if I didn't have to do so much city driving and if my goat was not my daily driver, I probably would've opt for the M6...
> 
> 
> In the long run though....WHO CARES!!!!! We all have an awesome car that most people would be jealous of whether it be a stick or auto....
> ...


:agree


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

Groucho said:


> BTW it's a _performance_ car- to buy it as an automatic is to kneecap its capabilities. An automatic can never anticipate- allow the driver to select the proper part of the pawerband-- like a manual allows.
> 
> The automatic is only "quicker" in a straight line (and even then barely so)...irrelevant for people who enjoy curves and apexes.
> 
> I drive more than anyone here through some of the worst traffic in the country, and I wouldn't trade my 6-speed for any slushbox...unless, of course, GM can come up with a "clutchless" sequential manual gearbox like Audi's DSG.


I do not have a slushbox!!! My car runs just as good,but what is a pawerband?And i drive from LA to San Francisco every day,so my automatic works just fine for me!


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

criminally_sane said:


> Ouch!!! You cut us "slushbox" owner deeply!


:agree :agree


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## CrabhartLSX (Feb 12, 2006)

hmm didn't know slushboxes could chirp the tires in 2nd.  

If you don't like autos that's fine, but give credit where credit is due. You think Ford has an automatic that can come close to the 4l60/65/80s? 

When you loose to one with a 3000 stall and otherwise stock, don't complain.


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## kerno (Apr 6, 2006)

My 68 GTO had no trouble at all chirping the tires on the shift into second. My 1973 Super Duty Trans Am with an Art Carr built Turbo 400 would chirp 'em going into third.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

The beauty of the 4l60 is that they DON'T F-UP! I work at a GM dealer and for all the abuse these trannies get, We don't see to many in for repairs(compared to others). They take the abuse and ask for more! It's main advantage is its simplistic design.:cool


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## GOATGIRL (Feb 6, 2006)

PEARL JAM said:


> The beauty of the 4l60 is that they DON'T F-UP! I work at a GM dealer and for all the abuse these trannies get, We don't see to many in for repairs(compared to others). They take the abuse and ask for more! It's main advantage is its simplistic design.:cool


I love it when you talk shop!!!!


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## purplehaze (Dec 27, 2005)

bluhaven said:


> And i drive from LA to San Francisco every day,so my automatic works just fine for me!



HOLY SH!T that is a long drive, where do you find the time to post?  :cheers


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

purplehaze said:


> HOLY SH!T that is a long drive, where do you find the time to post?  :cheers


Oh thats easy...laptop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

bluhaven said:


> And i drive from LA to San Francisco every day!


No, you don't. That's nearly 400 miles each way, or a 800 mile RT.

So,


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

Groucho said:


> No, you don't. That's nearly 400 miles each way, or a 800 mile RT.
> 
> So,


Hummmmm ......do you think I'm not telling the truth?The GTO is fast and i can make it in 4 hours too!!!! Plus i post while I'm driving,and i have an automatic,and I'm a Female...omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Sounds like BLUHAVEN wins the daily-long-distance-commuter award!!
Does it ever get boaring?:willy:I bet you use a sh#tload of gas!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

bluhaven said:


> Hummmmm ......do you think I'm not telling the truth?The GTO is fast and i can make it in 4 hours too!!!! Plus i post while I'm driving,and i have an automatic,and I'm a Female...omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You can _average_ 100 mph, even with LA, Silicon Valley, and SFO traffic?

_Riiiigggghhht._


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...=&2v=&2n=&2pn=&2a=&2c=san+francisco&2s=ca&2z=

Mapquest is showing the trip to be about 380 miles. Her story sounds about right.:cool


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

PEARL JAM said:


> http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...=&2v=&2n=&2pn=&2a=&2c=san+francisco&2s=ca&2z=
> 
> Mapquest is showing the trip to be about 380 miles. Her story sounds about right.:cool



Im very familiar with the route, having driven and flown it many times. It's pure BS. Traffic is ugly on either side of this drive, and few spots between are similar choke points. There's at least one fuel stop involved. Do the math. I know division is hard- just try it. She _lies._

And doing this drive, RT, _daily_? Please.

Oh...and the proud contention that she also _posts while driving_? I believe it (I've read her posts)-- and if true, she is as dangerous and irresponsible as she is disingenuous.


Maybe you can slink back with her to the Cowards Forum and pat each other on the, um, back.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

L.A. to San Fran.!! Every day! She's got you beat,grawsho!(oops)
Hey Blue,ever pass a yellow holden-lookin thing on the freeway? MAN! She definatly winns the most miles per week HANDS DOWN!




































Once again.............WOW!!!:cool


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

PEARL JAM said:


> L.A. to San Fran.!! Every day! She's got you beat,grawsho!(oops)
> Hey Blue,ever pass a yellow holden-lookin thing on the freeway? MAN! She definatly winns the most miles per week HANDS DOWN!
> 
> Once again.............WOW!!!:cool


:rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: 

More proof that some _P-P-_Pontiac fanbois are dumber-- and more gullible-- than even _I_ thought...


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Groucho said:


> :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:
> 
> More proof that some _P-P-_Pontiac fanbois are dumber-- and more gullible-- than even _I_ thought...


Her Pontiac MUST be faster than your Pontiac to travel that distance that fast!!:lol:


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

Groucho said:


> Im very familiar with the route, having driven and flown it many times. It's pure BS. Traffic is ugly on either side of this drive, and few spots between are similar choke points. There's at least one fuel stop involved. Do the math. I know division is hard- just try it. She _lies._
> 
> And doing this drive, RT, _daily_? Please.
> 
> ...


Having made the trip once or twice myself I agree with Groucho no way!!:agree


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

PEARL JAM said:


> Her Pontiac MUST be faster than your Pontiac to travel that distance that fast!!:lol:


Oh it is faster , once i kick in the turbos,sometimes make it in 3 1/2 hours ,and get refueled while I'm on the road.Traffic ..no problem , take all the side roads ,its a piece of cake when you know how to drive.:lol:I think i did pass a yellow looking thing with stripes on it!


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Man this is getting deep  For once I'll keep my mouth shut.


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Man this is getting deep  For once I'll keep my mouth shut.


 ROFL:cheers


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

bluhaven said:


> Oh it is faster , once i kick in the turbos,sometimes make it in 3 1/2 hours ,and get refueled while I'm on the road.Traffic ..no problem , take all the side roads ,its a piece of cake when you know how to drive.:lol:I think i did pass a yellow looking thing with stripes on it!


Gotta agree with Groucho on this one. You're not even a mediocre liar.


Average speed of 100MPH on public roads for 8 hours every day
In flight refueling
In flight messaging 
No pee or food breaks
All of this while switching back and forth from interstate to secondary roads
5 days /week and say 48 weeks per year = 192,000miles/year @18MPG = 10,666 gallons of fuel @ $2.75 = $29,000/year

Let's say you have a very lucrative job that may justify this kind of commute. If it's like my job, you would put in 10-12 hours a day at the office. Add in your commute time of 8 hours and you are left with 4-6 hours per day to eat sleep and enjoy life. 

You will trash a $33K GTO in one year and spend almost another $30K in fuel. You are looking at another $5K in tires and likely another $5K in routine maintenance (which occurs when). You're spending more than $70K per year commuting and have no life.

If this is true, you are stooopid!
If this is not true, (likely) this is a really stooopid lie. Why?


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> Gotta agree with Groucho on this one. You're not even a mediocre liar.
> 
> 
> Average speed of 100MPH on public roads for 8 hours every day
> ...



It can't be a lie. It CAN'T be!!!!! 
Bluhaven, say it's not true!(hehe!)
BTW: How do you "kick in" turbos?lol!


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

PEARL JAM said:


> It can't be a lie. It CAN'T be!!!!!
> Bluhaven, say it's not true!(hehe!)
> BTW: How do you "kick in" turbos?lol!


She meant to say afterburner....er gravity drive.... no wait, warp engines.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> She meant to say afterburner.


Does my 04 have one(or two) of those?


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

PEARL JAM said:


> Does my 04 have one(or two) of those?


On this thread you can have as many as you can type.


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> She meant to say afterburner....er gravity drive.... no wait, warp engines.


Ya thats it the afterburners , but only if I'm running late.:lol:


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

bluhaven said:


> Oh it is faster , once i kick in the turbos,sometimes make it in 3 1/2 hours ,and get refueled while I'm on the road.Traffic ..no problem , take all the side roads ,its a piece of cake when you know how to drive.:lol:I think i did pass a yellow looking thing with stripes on it!


Another liar, _owned._

So easy and less than satisfying when they're not very bright to begin with, but made sweet when you catch two dummies at once:



PEARL JAM said:


> Mapquest is showing the trip to be about 380 miles. Her story sounds about right.:cool





PEARL JAM said:


> L.A. to San Fran.!! Every day! She's got you beat,grawsho!(oops)
> Hey Blue,ever pass a yellow holden-lookin thing on the freeway? MAN! She definatly winns the most miles per week HANDS DOWN!
> 
> Once again.............WOW!!!:cool



Oh....and then the obligatory backpedalling, last refuge of the liar and the fool:



PEARL JAM said:


> It can't be a lie. It CAN'T be!!!!!
> Bluhaven, say it's not true!(hehe!)
> BTW: How do you "kick in" turbos?lol!





bluhaven said:


> Ya thats it the afterburners , but only if I'm running late.:lol:


"Hey guys- I was just kidding," right?

Morons.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Another liar, _owned._
> 
> So easy and less than satisfying when they're not very bright to begin with, but made sweet when you catch two dummies at once:
> 
> ...


WOW SCOOB! You were on to her the whole time! Feel good about yourself?


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

PEARL JAM said:


> WOW SCOOB! You were on to her the whole time! Feel good about yourself?



Yeah, I do actually.

I mean- I can add and multiply numbers-- in my _head!_

About time to slink off to http://www.cowardsandlosers.com/forums now, innit?

Take Wonder Woman (even that's debatable) with you!


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## bluhaven (Jan 24, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Yeah, I do actually.
> 
> I mean- I can add and multiply numbers-- in my _head!_
> 
> ...


Hummmm ...now how do you know about that forum?


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Yeah, I do actually.
> 
> I mean- I can add and multiply numbers-- in my _head!_
> 
> ...


HA! A make believe insulting weblink! How do you come up with these clever ideas? You know that one "special ed" kid that's just a little smarter than the other special kids? Well you remind me of.......oh never mind.:lol:


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

2004 Monaro?




Well,it is yellow with black stripes.


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## Sunburnvictim (Apr 21, 2006)

Ok I wanted a manual but picked up an auto. I didn't know it was faster then the stick and that didn't really matter. Before I get bashed hear me out, I picked up my 05 brand new from the dealer for 26k. Since then I have put 4000 miles on here and taken her to England where I work now. So the question is what price can you put on your transmission, for me it was eight thousand under MSRP.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Sunburnvictim said:


> Ok I wanted a manual but picked up an auto. I didn't know it was faster then the stick and that didn't really matter. Before I get bashed hear me out, I picked up my 05 brand new from the dealer for 26k. Since then I have put 4000 miles on here and taken her to England where I work now. So the question is what price can you put on your transmission, for me it was eight thousand under MSRP.


Whad reactions do you get twords your American muscle car? Is it odd driving the goat on the left side of the road?:lol:


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

PEARL JAM said:


> Whad reactions do you get twords your American muscle car?


I imagine that would depend on how common/uncommon the Vauxhall Monaro is in the UK. But, since the Brits as a whole tend to favor small and economical cars, I can't imagine its any more common there than the GTO is here.


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## CrabhartLSX (Feb 12, 2006)

The title of this thread still makes me giggle.


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## BLACK05GTO (Feb 6, 2005)

After years of driving sticks, I just got an 06 A4 GTO. Lets just say I love it. 

The traffic is terrible in my area and I just couldn't handle all the clutch action to and from work everyday. The A4 is an absolute pleasure to drive. 

I love driving a stick but for me the automatic is the way to go.

I also don't have to worry about missing a shift (which I did on a regular basis at the track in my M6)


Once I get a few mods and a converter, I will really be loving the A4.


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## derf (Aug 3, 2004)

When it comes to M6 vs A4, my decision was made long before I even knew the Monaro was coming up as the GTO.

It's the difference between driving your car or just riding in it.

Sure, the A4 is consistent when you're doing the stab and steer down the 1320 feet. But I didn't buy my car to drag race. I bought it to drive around town and in the back country roads of west Texas.


Now, I will concede that heavy traffic sucks with a clutch. But I have a 3 mile commute and I almost never have to go into the city. Besides, my Jeep has a vagina-matic so I'll take that the few times I actually have to drive across town.


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## CopperD (Apr 22, 2006)

Get the auto and put paddle shifters on it so you can have the best of both worlds. Im currently looking into installing paddle shifters on my GTO so Ill let everyone know how that goes.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

CopperD said:


> Get the auto and put paddle shifters on it so you can have the best of both worlds. Im currently looking into installing paddle shifters on my GTO so Ill let everyone know how that goes.


Not with the crappy 4-speed slushbiox the GTOs get...and a DSG-type paddle shifter manual with elctrohydraulic clutch (a'la Audi) is _not_ the same as an automatic. A DSG far faster, far superior.

I've heard the 6-speed automatic with paddleshifters as mounted in a Vette isn't bad...but anyone who puts an automatic in a Corvette should have all of their toupee tape taken away _permanently._


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## RipTheSix (Apr 26, 2006)

*m6*

I just bought a 05 m6, im 15 and its my first car, so i think you can do it. The thought of a auto didnt even cross my mind. Sports cars = Manual trans.

And on top of that, if your driving down the road, and a gt pulls next to you. If you got a auto there is going to be lag time. But if you got a manual, you drop down and rip it. Plus more people respect a manual. If you get a auto, you might regret it. :confused


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## joecop30 (May 1, 2006)

...manual


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

RipTheSix said:


> I just bought a 05 m6, im 15 and its my first car, so i think you can do it. The thought of a auto didnt even cross my mind. Sports cars = Manual trans.


Your 15 and your first car is an 05 GTO?!! 15?!:willy:


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## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

RipTheSix said:


> I just bought a 05 m6, im 15 and its my first car,


You have a $25k+ at 15? Congrats :cheers 

My first car at 15 was a 69 El Camino :cool I bought it for $1,800. I worked full time for 10 weeks (all summer) to come up with the $$$ for this car.


Enjoy it Kid :cool Please try and appriciate what you have there :cool 

God knows I didn't


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## RipTheSix (Apr 26, 2006)

*Thanks*

I was afriad to tell my age, I thought I might get dissed. And thanks for the props, ill treat her very very well. 

And yes i have worked for 4 years saving for it, no help from my parents. :cool


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## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

RipTheSix said:


> ...i have worked for 4 years saving for it, no help from my parents. :cool



4 years? At 11 you were saving for a car?

cheers! :cheers


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Robertr2000 said:


> 4 years? At 11 you were saving for a car?
> 
> cheers! :cheers


Hmmmmmmmm.......


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## jason (CMEXLR8) (May 2, 2006)

Manual is definetly the way to go on this car!


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## Philip_G (Apr 30, 2006)

I wanted a manuel but he wasn't working yesterday


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Philip_G said:


> I wanted a manuel but he wasn't working yesterday



:rofl: :lol: :cheers arty:


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## CopperD (Apr 22, 2006)

I have yet to regret my auto tranny. http://www.rosslertrans.com/ Thats whos building up my auto tranny to take over 1000HP that the engine will be throwing at it. Groucho I would love to see you switch gears as fast as my auto.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

CopperD said:


> Groucho I would love to see you switch gears as fast as my auto.


Right after I see you select and hold the torquiest part of the powerband right before exiting a right-hand decreasing-radius turn.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Right after I see you select and hold the torquiest part of the powerband right before exiting a right-hand decreasing-radius turn.


Turn???? What are you stooopid? A 1/4 mile track is a straight run. If you turn, you'll smack the wall and totally trash your 73 foot time.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> Turn???? What are you stooopid? A 1/4 mile track is a straight run. If you turn, you'll smack the wall and totally trash your 73 foot time.


:lol: 
Well, boy damn howdy. I plumb dinnit think of thet!


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## AndrewZPSU (Jun 8, 2006)

RipTheSix said:


> And on top of that, if your driving down the road, and a gt pulls next to you. If you got a auto there is going to be lag time. But if you got a manual, you drop down and rip it. Plus more people respect a manual. If you get a auto, you might regret it. :confused


You don't think that the auto could downshift quicker than you could safely downshift the manual? 

I'm about to buy an 04 A4 and downshifts have been very quick and spot on (obviously... it is an auto). Right now I drive a manual 1996 BMW M3. It is just my feeling that the time it takes to downshift correctly (pressing in the clutch, rev-matching the engine with the gear you want, and releasing the clutch) will take just as long of a second or longer than an auto pushing your right foot to the ground.

And when you are drag racing there is no human in the world that can shift faster than an automatic. You'll see many supra twin turbos (I'm guessing thats what kerno's wife owns) in the 9s, but less than 10 of them are manuals.

I also like the idea that the Auto is actually more reliable/stronger than the M6. 

It is quite funny to think if you are planning on drag racing this car you'll probably start modding it. And what will hold the power better and what will be faster? The auto. And then what... you keep modding it and suddenly the auto is a hell of a lot faster than the manual? NOOOOO. Say it aint so! Also this car is a sports car, but come on... it is definately a drag racer. I wouldn't recommend anyone in their right mind getting an auto m3, but auto GTO is the way to go for the best accomidation to your needs.

(Can anyone tell I'm trying to justify this to myself too?) 

I do have a question... 04 model year. What are the stock for stock times QM and 0-60 for the A4 and M6? I think in 05+ it is definately true about the auto being faster, but I'm not sure about the 04.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

AndrewZPSU said:


> You don't think that the auto could downshift quicker than you could safely downshift the manual?
> 
> I'm about to buy an 04 A4 and downshifts have been very quick and spot on (obviously... it is an auto). Right now I drive a manual 1996 BMW M3. It is just my feeling that the time it takes to downshift correctly (pressing in the clutch, rev-matching the engine with the gear you want, and releasing the clutch) will take just as long of a second or longer than an auto pushing your right foot to the ground.
> 
> ...


Another Centre County resident! There's damn few GTO's around here. My 05 is the only one I've seen. I've got an M6. The 4L65E is a good automatic even if the old 4 speed is a bit outdated. I had the same slushbox in a Yukon Denali for three years.

As for the GTO being a drag racer, sorry but no. It's fast in a straight line but it wasn't designed as a dragster. It's not a sports car either although it handles very well, too heavy. It's really a Grand Tourer in the same vein as the Porsche 928. Heavy, powerful, good handling, nice ride, room for 4. People insist on treating it as a successor to the Fire chicken but it's just not.

An auto will definitely upshift faster. It will likely downshift faster too. But the auto has yet to be made that will select the proper gear and hold it until YOU want to shift. A transmission can't look ahead and anticipate turns. It can't know you want to be ready for that ricer rolling up on you. An auto has preset shift points based on speed and load. Hit that point and it will shift no matter what you are doing or planning to do. No thanks.

There is no way you have as much control with an auto as a clutch and stick.


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## AndrewZPSU (Jun 8, 2006)

I didn't try this when I was test driving the auto, but will it hold the gears with the 123D selection?

If I grab this car I'd like to meet up with you. What color is your car? If it is yellow I've seen it around hah.


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Manual all the way. Unless you're 90 years old with bad knees, arthritis in every joint and have had repetitive hip replacements _and your balls hang down to the pavement_ then the auto is better.


HEY! My balls still have a 1/2 inch or so to go.
You left out if you want to blow the doors off of other manual GTO's in the 1/4 mile or from a punch....then go with a stalled A4 properly setup.arty: 
I have yet to be touched by any manual shifter setup...GTO or non-GTO....the only things that come close are other properly setup auto's.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> Another Centre County resident! There's damn few GTO's around here. My 05 is the only one I've seen. I've got an M6. The 4L65E is a good automatic even if the old 4 speed is a bit outdated. I had the same slushbox in a Yukon Denali for three years.
> 
> As for the GTO being a drag racer, sorry but no. It's fast in a straight line but it wasn't designed as a dragster. It's not a sports car either although it handles very well, too heavy. It's really a Grand Tourer in the same vein as the Porsche 928. Heavy, powerful, good handling, nice ride, room for 4. People insist on treating it as a successor to the Fire chicken but it's just not.
> 
> ...


I bought my C6 with the 6 spd Auto. It is the best auto I've driven. It downshifts as you approach a traffic light and are slowing down. The first couple of times it took some adjustment because I've never had an auto downshift like that. 6-3 kickdowns happen instantly, definately faster than I would be able to shift myself. If I want to shift there are the paddle shifters. The stock torque converter is pretty good as far as allowing the engine to spool up before engaging too. 

Now to the topic at hand the A4 in the GTO is a good tranny. AndrewZPSU is right on the money with his observations. If you primarily want a car to carve the twisties with get the manual. If it is for just about any other purpose get the auto unless you are just bored driving a car that you don't have to shift for yourself.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

AndrewZPSU said:


> I didn't try this when I was test driving the auto, but will it hold the gears with the 123D selection?
> 
> If I grab this car I'd like to meet up with you. What color is your car? If it is yellow I've seen it around hah.


The auto will hold a gear using the gear selector but it's not very precise. It's easy to overshoot in the heat of battle as there isn't much feel to the detents. Grabbing reverse at 60 mph will wake you up. Also, when you manually shift a slushbox, you lose it's quick shift advantage but not the power loss from torque converter slip. 

My 05 is Cyclone Gray with black interior. I've seen a Yellow GTO once on Atherton but it was an 04.

Lest you think a 6 speed is nirvana, be warned that the Tremec T56 and factory gear suggester is not the slickest combo I've ever driven. Getting this thing into third gear on a quick downshift at 70mph is a challenge.


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## ShoddyHog (May 17, 2006)

I got a M6 simply because I love shifting, and the auto is best suited for my Bonneville or my wife's Honda.

I'm not bad mouthing the A4 in any way...but to me, one of the biggest thrills of owning this this beast is going through the gears. I can run on any road (twisty or strait) at the RPM I want to. I've never had an auto that would allow me that kind of control...unless I manually shift it.

If I got this thing strictly to do burn-outs and kick the **** out of most every car out there, I'd have gotten the A4 simply because I'm not as fast or daring as I used to be.

And (yet again), my wife was right...after over 1,500 miles, my left knee is actually better from the exercise.

Gerry


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Ah, Manuel is back from the dead. 

I bought the M6 personally because, well, it's what I wanted. I don't race. I just like interacting with the car more, and a manual gives me that. Also, though I prefer manuals in general, for the last 10 years or so I've owned only automatics, as I've only been able to buy used cars, and the cars I've purchased have either been manufactured in automatic only, or I couldn't find any sticks for sale (sticks are often harder to find from my experience). As a result, I was really really itching for a stick.

Sure there are times when it might be nicer having an auto, like when I'm in stop and go (mostly stop) highway traffic. But most times I have more fun with the stick. Ideally I'd have a Goat of each flavor, but since I can only have one, I went with the stick.

I guess my reasoning is pretty boring, but to each his/her own


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> The auto will hold a gear using the gear selector but it's not very precise. It's easy to overshoot in the heat of battle as there isn't much feel to the detents. Grabbing reverse at 60 mph will wake you up. Also, when you manually shift a slushbox, you lose it's quick shift advantage but not the power loss from torque converter slip.
> 
> My 05 is Cyclone Gray with black interior. I've seen a Yellow GTO once on Atherton but it was an 04.
> 
> Lest you think a 6 speed is nirvana, be warned that the Tremec T56 and factory gear suggester is not the slickest combo I've ever driven. Getting this thing into third gear on a quick downshift at 70mph is a challenge.


Pass the pipe please. I dont know who in the hell has been setting up your auto's but that is all fantasy/made up bull****. It is impossible to "grab reverse at 60"...that is old days myth bull****. Make something else up and come back at me...OK. I'll blow the paint off your "05 Cyclone Grey with black interior"...if your gonna post make it accurate OK?


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## AndrewZPSU (Jun 8, 2006)

You need to be pressing the brake down to hit reverse. It will just catch N if you over shoot the D option... 

Also, my experience with my old 525i has been that once I get the timing right of shifting 1-2-3-D I can control shifts perfectly without bouncing off the rev limiter.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

SgtGeek said:


> Pass the pipe please. I dont know who in the hell has been setting up your auto's but that is all fantasy/made up bull****. It is impossible to "grab reverse at 60"...that is old days myth bull****. Make something else up and come back at me...OK. I'll blow the paint off your "05 Cyclone Grey with black interior"...if your gonna post make it accurate OK?


You certainly picked the right screen name *S*ome *G*oofy *T*exan Geek!!!. 

Yeah you'll *blow my paint off* cause you got *serious mods* and your *43 foot time *with an auto that is *all set up *is smokin. I didn't intend my comments for the *drive 440 yards in a straight line and then stop* crowd.

If I was wrong about being about being able to grab reverse while in forward motion, I apologize for offending you so deeply. It's obvious that this is something that matters very deeply to you and Stevie Ray.

You are absolutely right. There is no reason for anyone to drive a manual transmission. Automakers should stop production now. All those people who drive manuals should admit they were wrong and spend a day at the drag strip in their Lotus Elise to help them see that handling just doesn't matter.

How's the rest of your life Geek?


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

Life could not possibly be any better.


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## GoatBoy37 (May 30, 2006)

Ok, here's my input. My M6 GTO is the first manual car I've ever had. Took some help from my buds to get the shifting down, but now I absolutely love it.
I knew that it would be a sin, in my opinion, to get a car like this with an auto. Driving the manual allows you to have a more "intimate" driving experience.......... 

I once test drove an automatic GTO, and I wasnt impressed. You absolutely CANNOT fully utilize the powerband of the LS1 with an auto. So if you are a true driving enthusiast, or wanna be enthusiast, as I was, go with the manual, and get help from your friends on how to shift........it's totally worth it!

1. Better gas mileage
2. Get to choose the gear for best performance
3. Learn a new skill
4. More rewarding overall driving experience

Ok, I'll shut up now....


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