# HELP 67 Pontiac Tempest 326 won't start



## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

I am at a loss and need some suggestions. Car was hard to start but would hesitate to stay on. At first thought it was the battery so I let the car run for a half hr charging and all of a sudden it shut off on its own and I haven't been able to get it started since. Replaced battery, alternator, upgraded to hei distributor with all new spark plugs and wires and still won't start. It cranks but won't turn over. Getting spark and fuel. Please let me know if you have any thoughts on what he problem might be.

Thank you


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

Will it run with starting fluid? Did you bypass the resistor wire when you went to the HEI distributor? Have you set the timing? Sure about the firing order and direction of rotation? Carb getting fuel?


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

i'm getting spark and fuel to the carb. the firing order is right. i have the rotor pointing at the #1 chamber when it's fully compressed. but the timing notch on the harmonic balancer doesn't make it to the timing tab, falls short.


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## Helmerrock (Oct 2, 2013)

If you have the original 326 that hasn't been apart you may find that the nylon timing gear has finally given out and your timing has slipped. Happened to me long ago. Had to take the engine out to clean out any nylon pcs from the oil pan.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

Took it apart when I got home today to see if the timing gears where the issue like you suggested but it looks like they have already been replaced, it looks new. I just got the car a few weeks ago and it was running so idk why it would just stop. I did notice yesterday after looking up the firing order it did seem like it wanted to turn over the first click with feeding the carb but then didn't...also noticed a lot of backfiring through tailpipe and occasionally through carb. Got firing order from online which said thumb method to get tdc on #1 piston then cranked the harmonic balance to 0 and made sure the rotor was pointing towards 1st chamber. Did all that and the best I got was it sounding like it was going to turn over then after cranking agnition again would keep backfiring


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

The thumb method can be deceiving. You can feel pressure on the exhaust stroke as well. I bet you are 180 off. Firing order is 18436572 with left (US drivers side) bank 1357 and passenger 2468. Distributor is counter clockwise rotation. This is different than Chevy so a lot of people get that wrong.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

this is the order i did . to fix the 180 degree off problem i have to pull the distributor turn the gear 180 and point it towards the number 8 cylinder ?


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

In your attached picture, two of the distributors are clockwise and two counterclockwise. Yours should be counterclockwise. Same for Olds. Opposite for Chevy.

As to your question, 180 from 1 is number 6. What you can do is manual rotate the engine until the rotor is at 1 and the timing marks are aligned. You could use a sharpie to mark where on the distributor your rotor is pointing and the position of the distributor in relation to the motor. Then rotate the engine one revolution until the timing marks are aligned again. Now your rotor is at 6. Pull the distributor just enough to clear the gears and restab with the rotor pointing at 1. Set the timing and fire it up.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

Ok Rt-1 gonna give this a shot when I get home today. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

Rt-1 after checking the gears and putting everything back together I did what you suggested and turned counterclockwise 180 and it started. Had it running for about a min and noticed fuil line was leaking so I shut it off to tighten the line and now can't get it started again. Went back to the beginning and tried again still no success. It's definitely the timing I just can't figure it out. Can't believe I got it running and after shutting it off for just a few seconds can't get it to start up again.


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

We're making progress! Do you have a timing light? I mark the pointer and balancer with a white marker. Makes it easier to see. I have mine set at 8 degrees BTDC. Also, you didn't tell me about your wiring. Voltage to the coil comes from the starter solenoid while cranking and through the resistance wire in run position. If you forgot to hook the wire from the solenoid up or didn't bypass the resistance wire it might be part of the problem.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

to clarify what i did, i removed the old f ignition coil and installed a hei distributor. it only requires a power wire from the starter solenoid to power it. the old style had two wires one connected to the ignition coil one to power it and the other went into the distributor to a resistor . i'm getting spark to the plugs , when it started up that one time it sounded good. just wish i timed it before i had to shut it off to fix the fuel leak . i can't understand why when i went back to the beginning doing what you suggested it won't start?? thanks for you time and patient.


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

Aagghh. No. No. The power wire from the starter is ONLY powered when the key is in the start position and the starter is engaged. As soon as the engine starts and you drop the key back to run, that wire goes dead. That's when the voltage from the resistance wire takes over. On points ignition, you didn't want a full 12 volts all the time because it chewed up the points. In HEI you do want the full 12 volts. Start with hooking the resistance wire back into the same connection the starter wire is hooked to. We'll work on getting the bypass after you confirm it will run this way.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

I'm not sure what you mean by the resistance wire? There was only one wire going into the ignition coil and the other wire was connected to the old distributor which I threw out. Can you message me privately with a number to contact you so we can discuss??


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

Finally got it running timing is at about 18 BTDC is there anything else I need to do with the timing before I drive it?


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

18 degrees? Is that with the vacuum advance unplugged? I wonder if your balancer has shifted.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

that with the vacuum advance connected.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

what should it be when i disconnect the vacuum advance ?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

:nerd::nerd:mhyl2000,....so the best way is to find out what is the total centrifigal advance inside the distributor......

you can do that with a dial back timing light, or timing tape on the harmonic balancer......once you have either of those in place, then you can open the dist cap and remove the rotor and take one spring off one of the weights, don't lost it. Put the cap and rotor back on. Good to have a helper. 

park or neutral, chock wheels, parking brake on,..disconnect vac advance and plug engine side vacumn at hose or engine.

Now while watching the timing mark rev up the engine, the timing will advance so far and then it will stop advancing.....that is your total advance,...your base setting without vac and your centrifigal together

......now subtract your base from that total, that is your centrifigal advance. lets say it was 42 and your base was 15....

subtract 15 from 42 and your centrifigal is 27.......now to get it right, set your base to the number that will give you a total of 36.................36 - 27 = 11.....that should be your base timing setting.

********************Put the spring back in....**************************

you said you had an HEI dist. then get a standard Motor Parts SMP VC 302 from Rock Auto......

It will pull in 10 degrees advance at the crank,...Make sure you hook the can to full manifold vac.

timing at idle near 20* with 10* from the vac can is good and will give good idle cooling and nice all around cruising and performance. you will lose nothing on the top end, as no vac with pedal all the way down.

you can change the springs on the distributor to bring the timing in sooner as well. But get you totals right and check for detonation, engine knock...if any dial the base back 2 * and retry.

with what you have just disconnect your vac and check base timing,....22 base is normally to high some racers do that but they know what is inside the dist and set accordingly.

set it up for street performance like I described, Racers at the track may do it a little different, but they know their cars and engines and make frequent adjustments.

good luck you are making great progress!


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## RT-1 (Mar 21, 2012)

mhyl2000 said:


> what should it be when i disconnect the vacuum advance ?




Disconnected should be at 8 degrees.


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## mhyl2000 (Jun 30, 2017)

ok i got it a 8 , i reconnected it and when i hit the gas it pops and backfires in the carb and fire shoots out?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

mhyl2000 said:


> ok i got it a 8 , i reconnected it and when i hit the gas it pops and backfires in the carb and fire shoots out?


Your balancer may be off. Loosen the bolt that holds the distributor clamp down, but loosen only enough so that you can turn the distributor with a little effort.

Fire the engine up. Move the distributor in one direction or the other very slowly. LISTEN to the engine. Find the spot where the engine runs smooth. Turn the distrib. left/counter clockwise to retard the timing and make the engine run rough/poorly - stop at that point as no need to go any more and make a note of it. Then turn the distrib. to the right/clockwise to advance the timing and turn it until the engine smooths (engine will speed up as you advance the timing). You can keep turning until it runs rough/poorly, but stop at that point and turn the distrib. back until it smooths out again.

This will give you a good starting point as to where the engine likes the timing regardless of the timing marks on the harmonic balancer- which may be inaccurate. You can check the mark at the balancer, but my guess is that it may be way off.

IF your engine runs, you can then take the car out on the road and fine tune the distrib./timing using the "pinging" method. If the engine "pings/rattles" under hard acceleration in second gear, stop the test immediately so as not to do engine damage, and retard the distributor a small amount. Repeat the "ping" test, retarding the distributor a small amount each time until the ping/rattle is no longer heard. This will place your distributor timing at its peak position for your engine. Tighten down the distributor clamp nut and you are done. If you get any ping/rattle later, then retard the distributor a little more as needed.

This is how I used to adjust my timing on my cars when I was younger. Never had a timing light, just used the "ping" method. Also kept a wrench in the glove box to tighten/loosen the distrib. clamp nut if I got any "pinging" as many things can affect timing and no setting is perfect for all conditions or gas types.

Another thing to make not of is - how fresh is the gas in the tank that you are using? If it has the ethanol blend, the gas goes bad kinda quickly. You could also be picking up water that collects due to the alcohol in the gas and getting more water than gas. Just a few more things to consider.

If it still will not start/run, I think I might do a compression test.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

:nerd::wink3::wink3:right, also it starts at 18*,....with vac connected...is that connected to full manifold Vac?...

if so any vac can would be pulling in some additional timing......

your HEI Dist is it New? or used?

Check to see that weights and springs are not hanging up or won't return properly,..

this is under the rotor cap. they should return strong.Did one last week and the spring would not return the weights to idle, that adds additional timing at idle and would mess you up...

also check the distributor gear at bottom, pull dist and check that dimple on rotor gear is in line visually with the rotor tip.

The rotor only goes on one way, a sqaure and round hole, or similar design. the gear however can be put on two ways with the roll pin, it fits either way and looks fine but the gear will be facing out of alignment with the rotor tip and throws timing off 13*

when you flipped the dist 180, it had been installed on the exhaust stoke, but the gear could still be off...worth checking.

One problem is you are flying blind and you don't know the numbers, centrifigal and Vacumn.

If you have a handheld vac pump, disconnect vac at dist and plug engine side. pump the can up with vacumn and try to start it. you can start base timing at 10* and pump can up and try 5 psi, then 10 psi, then 15 psi then 20 psi...

if the dist is out,.... say when checking gear do this on the bench and see if vac can moves better yet put in a better vac can.....Standard Motor parts SMP VC 302...pulls 10 at the crank, then you will know what you have...

if you don't have that then see if the vac can moves the dist plate on the bench,...the see if when you add a little cvac the car will start......you are just adding some timing gradually to see if it will start, Jim's method is the same just turning with you hand....

sound like your timing is off and little changes will get you back to run....

hang in there you will get it,...and be safe get a helper, chock the wheels, parking brake on, park or neutral....


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