# engine removal



## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

trying to unbolt my clutch cover from the engine to remove the engine, theres like 16 or so bolts to remove I have all but 3 out which I can barely see let alone remove, any suggestions? Obviously Ive never done this before I hope Im doing it right.
Looks like only four to disconnect the transmission but know way could I pull all that out it wouldnt fit. I have the radiator removed thats all, well I did remove the fan and water pump, thats what started this, rusted out water pump engine over heating. I cant see removing the whole front, no way.


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

from my extractions...
lower pulley off 
oil filter off 
shifter off
transmission off because its a drastic angle it comes out 4 big bolts
distributor cap loose and off to the side
timing mark on top dead center,,,, and rotor aimed at number 1 plug wire on the cap
if its not aimed at number 1 wire spin balancer around 1 more revolution ...
crank goes around 2 times for distributor 1 time
starter off being nice to the wires 



Scott


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

BLK69JUDGE said:


> from my extractions...
> lower pulley off
> oil filter off
> shifter off
> ...


My harmonic balancer is off, have headers so starter is impossible to remove. Are you saying to remove the engine with the transmission. Or its going to tilt? Timing mark? Is it timing chain at TDC? Or just #1 cylinder. I dont get rotor aimed at #1 lug wire. Is it inside the distributor? So the metal is the rotor? I know less than nothing about cars. Been in construction all my life.I drive em they die I get another. I bought this car in Dec the guy said its in great condition, BS I got burned. Ive had estimates $8,000-$10000 to rebuild the engine, so if it takes m a year fukit.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> My harmonic balancer is off, have headers so starter is impossible to remove. Are you saying to remove the engine with the transmission. Or its going to tilt? Timing mark? Is it timing chain at TDC? Or just #1 cylinder. I dont get rotor aimed at #1 lug wire. Is it inside the distributor? So the metal is the rotor? I know less than nothing about cars. Been in construction all my life.I drive em they die I get another. I bought this car in Dec the guy said its in great condition, BS I got burned. Ive had estimates $8,000-$10000 to rebuild the engine, so if it takes m a year fukit.


I've never pulled a pontiac motor with the trans, and the front end on. No, you must remove the trans. Also... Don't expect to get it out with the headers on, either! At least, my 67 cannot me removed with headers... FYI, or installed either!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> My harmonic balancer is off, have headers so starter is impossible to remove. Are you saying to remove the engine with the transmission. Or its going to tilt? Timing mark? Is it timing chain at TDC? Or just #1 cylinder. I dont get rotor aimed at #1 lug wire. Is it inside the distributor? So the metal is the rotor? I know less than nothing about cars. Been in construction all my life.I drive em they die I get another. I bought this car in Dec the guy said its in great condition, BS I got burned. Ive had estimates $8,000-$10000 to rebuild the engine, so if it takes m a year fukit.


Trace your number one spark plug wire, back to the cap. Mark its location. Take the cap off. Turn the balancer to TDC (even if you have to put it back on) and the rotor should now be pointing at (or near) number one. If not, you're out 180, so turn the balancer one more revolution. 

You don't need to really do anything with the distributor, but since you're removing the cap, it's always good to know where #1 is. If you're going to rebuild the motor, then just pull the whole dizzy anyway. I think you're going to need to unbolt the headers.

I've been working on these cars for 35 years, but never got into heavy mechanicals, either. Information is key and there are so many books out there. Personally, id read the books first, and then come here for clarification.

Too many people confuse fact with opinion (on the web and in real life), and the last thing you need is bad information. IME, this forum has nothing but reliable and accurate info, but I've seen some very inaccurate things on the Vette, Chevelle, Camaro, forums.

Did you get a 2nd opinion on your motor? Compression check? A bad cooling system can be corrected. All of the parts are iron, if it had straight water in it, it's going to rust. It can be flushed a few times and then rehabbed.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Also, you should put where you're located on you profile. You may have a fellow forum member nearby, and then your trouble would be greatly simplified.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I've never pulled a pontiac motor with the trans, and the front end on. No, you must remove the trans. Also... Don't expect to get it out with the headers on, either! At least, my 67 cannot me removed with headers... FYI, or installed either!


The headers are disconnect but not out I dont have a lift so I can only get it up to 18"-24". I have Rocky R. book it says disconnect Trans and distributor, updated my profile really need help maybe CL I might find someone


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> The headers are disconnect but not out I dont have a lift so I can only get it up to 18"-24". I have Rocky R. book it says disconnect Trans and distributor, updated my profile really need help maybe CL I might find someone


You're in Cali... MANY GTO people there, but it's also a big state. I suggest making a post that youre looking for help in your area. I know that Id drive a few hours to help out a fellow GTO fan, but I'm on the East Coast. 

How do you know that the motor is shot?


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

I have always pulled and installed my engines with trans balancer, dizzy connected. Just don't try doing the install with Ramair manifolds in a 67.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

This is how I do mine.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> You're in Cali... MANY GTO people there, but it's also a big state. I suggest making a post that youre looking for help in your area. I know that Id drive a few hours to help out a fellow GTO fan, but I'm on the East Coast.
> 
> How do you know that the motor is shot?


Its not shot but I was driving it and it over heated, so I remove the rad & water pump it was rusted out so along with dripping oil constantly and I removed the valve cover and it had sludge I call it oil & dirt I guess and when I drive somewhere then restart to come home smoke comes out the exhaust which to me says theres a bad valve guide. Now I just figured out that its a 65 with #12 1970 heads RA, and the block is 67 which I did not know. Bunch of mesh mash. So I think the best coarse is to keep the block and rebuild it with Edelbrock heads and intake. Clean it all up so its a nice clean car. Has nice current paint, new interior.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Also, you should put where you're located on you profile. You may have a fellow forum member nearby, and then your trouble would be greatly simplified.


Well I got the headers out, One thing Im not sure about the clutch has a shaft thats connected to the motor and theres a bolt on the other side cant seem to loosen it up to get it out. The nut just spins. I almost pulled it out of the motor as I lifted the motor to get out the headers but is there someway to get the clutch shaft out? I removed the cotter pin and dropped the bolt out but that nut and shaft are perplexing.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Well I got the headers out, One thing Im not sure about the clutch has a shaft thats connected to the motor and theres a bolt on the other side cant seem to loosen it up to get it out. The nut just spins. I almost pulled it out of the motor as I lifted the motor to get out the headers but is there someway to get the clutch shaft out? I removed the cotter pin and dropped the bolt out but that nut and shaft are perplexing.


Also I did a couple moths ago put a shout in GTO Bay area club just got a notice of 2 shop mechanics more than likely $150hr or so. No thanks & thanks for the help DHs


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Its not shot but I was driving it and it over heated, so I remove the rad & water pump it was rusted out so along with dripping oil constantly and I removed the valve cover and it had sludge I call it oil & dirt I guess and when I drive somewhere then restart to come home smoke comes out the exhaust which to me says theres a bad valve guide. Now I just figured out that its a 65 with #12 1970 heads RA, and the block is 67 which I did not know. Bunch of mesh mash. So I think the best coarse is to keep the block and rebuild it with Edelbrock heads and intake. Clean it all up so its a nice clean car. Has nice current paint, new interior.


Sounds like a good plan. If it's all mix-matched anyway.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Well I got the headers out, One thing Im not sure about the clutch has a shaft thats connected to the motor and theres a bolt on the other side cant seem to loosen it up to get it out. The nut just spins. I almost pulled it out of the motor as I lifted the motor to get out the headers but is there someway to get the clutch shaft out? I removed the cotter pin and dropped the bolt out but that nut and shaft are perplexing.


The clutch issue that you're experiencing is normal. Reach out to Old Man Taylor (here, in this very thread. He has a ton of experience pulling motors, with manuals.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

RMTZ67 said:


> I have always pulled and installed my engines with trans balancer, dizzy connected. Just don't try doing the install with Ramair manifolds in a 67.


I'm a short cut guy, so I never remove anything, either. However, my 67 had the nose off, so I don't know if I'd have swung the TH400 trans, if it werent.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Old Man Taylor said:


> This is how I do mine.
> 
> View attachment 141487
> View attachment 141488
> View attachment 141489


Man, that pivot really makes the job a lot more fun!!


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

armyadarkness said:


> Man, that pivot really makes the job a lot more fun!!


That's where it's at. The angle to the dangle.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

RMTZ67 said:


> That's where it's at. The angle to the dangle.


I've always preferred to show my ingenuity, as opposed to my wallet, which roughly translates into buying a come-a-long from the dollar store, building a tripod out of the neighbors fence, and running- for-your-life is always part of the event.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Do not do it under a pine tree, sap gums up carburetors. Its not good for your paint either.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Man Taylor said:


> This is how I do mine.
> 
> View attachment 141487
> View attachment 141488
> View attachment 141489


Dont know if you received my message so here goes again Im removing my engine from my 65 gto and the clutch arm is giving me fits, it has a nut on one side and it just spins when I try to loosen it. The other side its in the engine with a knob. But I cant get that nut to loosen so I can pull it out. Came close to just yanking the engine out with it attached but didnt. 
Thanks Taylor
Dan Roach also OM


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I either didn't receive your message, or I overlooked it. The shaft should not rotate. There's a flat on it that goes into the frame bracket. If the nut is tight - give it some force to get it off. Use a 9/16" box wrench. I have a header tube over the frame, so I get it from the side with a socket.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

If you have any questions you can call me at 760-533 thirty one fifty eight.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Well I got the headers out, One thing Im not sure about the clutch has a shaft thats connected to the motor and theres a bolt on the other side cant seem to loosen it up to get it out. The nut just spins. I almost pulled it out of the motor as I lifted the motor to get out the headers but is there someway to get the clutch shaft out? I removed the cotter pin and dropped the bolt out but that nut and shaft are perplexing.


If I'm understanding you, then the z bar WILL just slide off the engine stud, as you almost experienced! That is an acceptable way to remove it, proving that nothing gets bent. In any event, as I mentioned OMT is the man for this, and he reached out to you, so you're in good hands.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Man Taylor said:


> I either didn't receive your message, or I overlooked it. The shaft should not rotate. There's a flat on it that goes into the frame bracket. If the nut is tight - give it some force to get it off. Use a 9/16" box wrench. I have a header tube over the frame, so I get it from the side with a socket.


I'll take a picture tommorrow or Sat, and post it here. I can give it force Ive tried to just spins theres no catch Im thinking I need to put a hold on the other side where it goes into the engine. Its a oblong like big bearing on the other end that goes into the engine. But the nut just spins no catch. Putting a wrench and spinning it isnt the problem getting it to screw off is.
To tired tonite. Ive got your # if I cant get it Sat I'll call.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Man Taylor said:


> If you have any questions you can call me at 760-533 thirty one fifty eight.


Okay I got the nut off the next step is to try and remove the bar. But I need major assistance on picking parts. Heres my thing.
My engine is #12 1970 heads, & I just discovered my block is a YS ( I knew that) but its not 1970 its 1967 ( didnt know till this week) so I decided instead having a 65 car with 70 heads & 67 block to install different heads. Either that or sell it all get a 65 block. Im limited for room. But Im thinking Edelbrock heads new all and new cam, rockers, rods and all. My problem is I dont know which. Theres 60589 which is bare, has bigger deck and larger exhaust port than the other chioce, and is for hydraulic roller cam, 0.625 deck, $758. 60599 it has valves installed, roller tappet cam, 5/8" deck $1069. Dont know what deck size means. These are the only ones I found reasonably priced I know its a bit to put them together etc but some are $2800 each, $6000 for 2 heads? Shit no way I can afford that. I would like your opinion and if you think either is OK maybe some help with the others. My wish is to go about 450hp.
Anyone else reads this wants to do some input be my guest
Email [email protected]
Better that going back and forth here If you rather I call than all this typing thats OK, no big hurry
Thanks Dan


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Okay I got the nut off the next step is to try and remove the bar. But I need major assistance on picking parts. Heres my thing.
> My engine is #12 1970 heads, & I just discovered my block is a YS ( I knew that) but its not 1970 its 1967 ( didnt know till this week) so I decided instead having a 65 car with 70 heads & 67 block to install different heads. Either that or sell it all get a 65 block. Im limited for room. But Im thinking Edelbrock heads new all and new cam, rockers, rods and all. My problem is I dont know which. Theres 60589 which is bare, has bigger deck and larger exhaust port than the other chioce, and is for hydraulic roller cam, 0.625 deck, $758. 60599 it has valves installed, roller tappet cam, 5/8" deck $1069. Dont know what deck size means. These are the only ones I found reasonably priced I know its a bit to put them together etc but some are $2800 each, $6000 for 2 heads? Shit no way I can afford that. I would like your opinion and if you think either is OK maybe some help with the others. My wish is to go about 450hp.
> Anyone else reads this wants to do some input be my guest
> Email [email protected]
> ...


I did just discover they sell top end kits rom Edel. probably do one of those unless I can put it together myself which I doubt


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Okay I got the nut off the next step is to try and remove the bar. But I need major assistance on picking parts. Heres my thing.
> My engine is #12 1970 heads, & I just discovered my block is a YS ( I knew that) but its not 1970 its 1967 ( didnt know till this week) so I decided instead having a 65 car with 70 heads & 67 block to install different heads. Either that or sell it all get a 65 block. Im limited for room. But Im thinking Edelbrock heads new all and new cam, rockers, rods and all. My problem is I dont know which. Theres 60589 which is bare, has bigger deck and larger exhaust port than the other chioce, and is for hydraulic roller cam, 0.625 deck, $758. 60599 it has valves installed, roller tappet cam, 5/8" deck $1069. Dont know what deck size means. These are the only ones I found reasonably priced I know its a bit to put them together etc but some are $2800 each, $6000 for 2 heads? Shit no way I can afford that. I would like your opinion and if you think either is OK maybe some help with the others. My wish is to go about 450hp.
> Anyone else reads this wants to do some input be my guest
> Email [email protected]
> ...


You have a lot going on. Unless your car is going to be a show car, then I would have your existing parts checked and refreshed, and then reassemble the engine, making minor upgrades as you go. There's no real way to avoid opening Pandoras box, if you start swapping heads and big parts. Everything all works together and you'll nickel and dime yourself into a two year, $10k project.

Even a stock rebuild will give you at least 350 hp, which is well more than enough to send you deep into the fun zone. If you really want ta complete power kit, then call someone like Summit or Butler, and tell them what you're looking for.

For the record, a 67 YS 400 wouldve likely had 670 heads, which are GREAT! and still out there, so if I were in your shoes, I'd build it up to the factory specs with 670's and have some fun.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> You have a lot going on. Unless your car is going to be a show car, then I would have your existing parts checked and refreshed, and then reassemble the engine, making minor upgrades as you go. There's no real way to avoid opening Pandoras box, if you start swapping heads and big parts. Everything all works together and you'll nickel and dime yourself into a two year, $10k project.
> 
> Even a stock rebuild will give you at least 350 hp, which is well more than enough to send you deep into the fun zone. If you really want ta complete power kit, then call someone like Summit or Butler, and tell them what you're looking for.
> 
> For the record, a 67 YS 400 wouldve likely had 670 heads, which are GREAT! and still out there, so if I were in your shoes, I'd build it up to the factory specs with 670's and have some fun.


It has #12 heads which are just like 670 just not as popular. Theyre rated 360hp but are 1970 and the block is 1967. I juust think it would be better to get some consistency with higher hp. Im always thinking of resale when I buy house, car , big ticket items. when I work on my places I like quality as would a buyer. Im sure it would be far less money to keep what I have and rebuild, the intake is rusty which is what got me going on this along with other problems. Calling Butler is a good idea and I will thanks.There are 670 on Ebay $900 bare


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Droach6498 said:


> It has #12 heads which are just like 670 just not as popular. Theyre rated 360hp but are 1970 and the block is 1967. I juust think it would be better to get some consistency with higher hp. Im always thinking of resale when I buy house, car , big ticket items. when I work on my places I like quality as would a buyer. Im sure it would be far less money to keep what I have and rebuild, the intake is rusty which is what got me going on this along with other problems. Calling Butler is a good idea and I will thanks.There are 670 on Ebay $900 bare


Like Army said "opening up pandora's box". I was just gonna install a cam and lifters. $6-8,000 later...I am back on the road. And that is with someone doing the machine work and me putting it back together. But that did included some goodies (RA Manifolds,2.5 exhaust,4 wheel disc brakes, and why not...new gauges) While the engine was out lol. Not to scare you but one thing leads to another. If you have the money, buy all you need asap. Even if your not ready for it ....Everything is going up. A somewhat stock rebuild is nothing to be ashamed of.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

670 heads are closed chamber like the 389 heads but are designed with the valve inclination of the newer heads. One year only design. 
IMHO it doesn't make sense to use 670s since the engine isn't original anyway. Only if your number matching with a 67 GTO or Grand Prix. Use the best head for what your requirements will be.

Good read on Pontiac heads

heads - PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Reach out to Darren at Nitemare Performance. He sells ported 6X heads at a way better price than going aluminum. The advantage over older heads is the 6X have larger combustion chambers so your engine will run on pump gas when you're done. I ordered a set of his stage II heads for my build and just got them a couple weeks ago.

One word of warning. Whatever time line you have in your head, make it 5X longer. My engine blew up last June and I expected to have it back on the road by mid summer. Here we are 10 months later and I am just getting ready to start reassembling the engine. These project take time in normal times. Machine shops got very busy this past year and the lead times went up. Also, there have been some parts availability issues to boot.

Good luck.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Jared said:


> Reach out to Darren at Nitemare Performance. He sells ported 6X heads at a way better price than going aluminum. The advantage over older heads is the 6X have larger combustion chambers so your engine will run on pump gas when you're done. I ordered a set of his stage II heads for my build and just got them a couple weeks ago.
> 
> One word of warning. Whatever time line you have in your head, make it 5X longer. My engine blew up last June and I expected to have it back on the road by mid summer. Here we are 10 months later and I am just getting ready to start reassembling the engine. These project take time in normal times. Machine shops got very busy this past year and the lead times went up. Also, there have been some parts availability issues to boot.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks yeh I know took me 4 months to get my wheels Rally I couldnt find any used at all did Tempest CL over the country not a one the least pricey was Ames


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