# 67 Tempest LeMans or GTO



## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey im kinda looking into this for my uncle so if my information / understanding is a little off that is why. so i am also trying to learn more about the car myself. im a little confused as to what car it is but as stated above my understanding of it, is that it is a 1967 Tempest LeMans with GTO package. According to the VIN it is a GTO. I have pictures to show body and interior. The car is running, and has original engine in it. Im trying to figure out what the car can run for. My uncle is a little strapped for cash and unfortunately needs to sell it, but isn't sure how much he should sell the car for. if there is any information you can give me about the car that would be great! 

thank you

VIN = 242177P212867

dkoester88 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting for pictures


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

The VIN is for a GTO and the pictures are those of a Tempest, what are the codes from the data plate that is located on the drivers side of the firewall?


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## 67/04gto (Jan 15, 2005)

it looks like some one switched plates,what engine is in it.whats the code,also whats the info off the data plate on the firewall,also if you can check there a partial serial number stamped in the frame behind the left wheel well on the top off the framebehind that body mount


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Unless someone put on LeMans rear quarters and a 2bbl motor, that's a clone car. The vertical chrome pieces between the rear wheel and door jam area was NEVER on a factory GTO.

Unless it's a GTO cloned into a LeMans!


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

67/04gto said:


> it looks like some one switched plates,what engine is in it.whats the code,also whats the info off the data plate on the firewall,also if you can check there a partial serial number stamped in the frame behind the left wheel well on the top off the framebehind that body mount



What Plates are you referring to? Im going to work on getting the information. I believe the engine is a 400.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Pull the codes from these areas,


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks for editing that picture that really helps! 

By the way, can you tell me what kind of motor that is by the picture or would you need multiple pictures?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

dillonk said:


> Thanks for editing that picture that really helps!
> 
> By the way, can you tell me what kind of motor that is by the picture or would you need multiple pictures?


I'll need the letter code on the front of the block, there is also a casting number on the distributor pad or behind the #8 cylinder (pass. Side) just below the head.


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

alright ill see what i can do. Hypathetically speaking if the car is a GTO and thats the original engine what codes should i be looking for? it will probably be a few days before i know the codes.

thanks for all the help thus far. ill keep updating when i can.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

dillonk said:


> alright ill see what i can do. Hypathetically speaking if the car is a GTO and thats the original engine what codes should i be looking for? it will probably be a few days before i know the codes.
> 
> thanks for all the help thus far. ill keep updating when i can.


The data plate will read "STYLE 67-24217"

The head casting number on top of the center exhaust ports will be 670,


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

Update

According to the title the car is listed as a Tempest but VIN is listed above (making it a GTO) which is where the confusion originally beings. Im waiting to hear back from uncle on confirmation of the VIN but as right now it is -9degrees out and covered with ice.

He was able to get the Casting number Letter Code and Data plate information. From this I know now the car is NOT a GTO but a LeMans. So you guys were correct. 

Casting Number: 365269YZ

Letter Code: DN

Data plate: ST67-23717 PON BODY T-2 2080 TR223-V 

WTWG4F5Y

So what does this mean exactly?

thanks,

Dillon


*I believe all information is correct but not for certain i havent seen it myself*


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

First thing you need to verify at this point is if the VIN # on the title matches the VIN tag riveted to the left door pillar. 
What state is the car registered in ? This will make a difference too.


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes I agree. I may be making a visit out to see the car soon. He is a little hard to understand over the phone at times and i want to make sure i heard him correctly. The car is registered in Illinois. 

lets say the VIN IS matching the one on the title...what does that mean, is that possible?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

dillonk said:


> Yes I agree. I may be making a visit out to see the car soon. He is a little hard to understand over the phone at times and i want to make sure i heard him correctly. The car is registered in Illinois.
> 
> lets say the VIN IS matching the one on the title...what does that mean, is that possible?


IF the VIN's match, then I would have to assume the car was a "rebody" sometime in the past and the GTO VIN wasn't registered as stolen allowing a "clean" title. If they DON'T match and being in IL, the car is virtually un-saleble.


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

Too Many Projects said:


> If they DON'T match and being in IL, the car is virtually un-saleble.


What do you mean by un-saleble? Where and why does it being in IL come into play? 

:confused


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

If the VIN tag doesn't match the title a FEDERAL crime has been commited by VIN swapping. Some states allow this to be done as a rebody but the documentation has to stay with the car and the title would show the new VIN on it. IL takes a very hard stand on "rebodies" unless it comes from another state with a clean title. If your Uncle attempts to sell the car with mis-matched VIN and title, he could be held liable for the VIN swap and be in a world of trouble. This is a huge can of worms that can take a long time to sort out. The car COULD possibly be cleared and issued a new state VIN number, tag and title, but as I say, it is a major ordeal.


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

well that was NOT the kind of news I was expecting to hear. But very good to know. I know he is not the original owner so if what you say is true and is the case, the guy he got it from would be at fault. ill post back when I go see the VIN myself. Until then, if there is anything else you think i should know or do please let me know. 

i am truely grateful for all the help and info you guys have given me it really was great. thanks

I guess im just confused how he would be able to register the car with plates and everything with unmatching numbers. im going to take a ride out to his place tonight and see the numbers myself


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

So i just got back from his place. VIN # On title matches number on inside of door. Firewall number is ST67-23717. so there is a definite mismatch. 

It is licensed, plated, and I saw the actual title. I'm just confused how he would be able to get all this information if the VIN is incorrect for the cars model. the car's title has it listed as a Tempest. itself is in pretty good condition with minor rust on it. Interior is great shape. 

Where does one go from here? :willy:


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

dillonk said:


> So i just got back from his place. VIN # On title matches number on inside of door. Firewall number is ST67-23717. so there is a definite mismatch.
> 
> It is licensed, plated, and I saw the actual title. I'm just confused how he would be able to get all this information if the VIN is incorrect for the cars model. the car's title has it listed as a Tempest. itself is in pretty good condition with minor rust on it. Interior is great shape.
> 
> Where does one go from here? :willy:


VIN and trim tag numbers never match. They are unrelated, even with the original VIN tag so that's not an issue. Since the title matches the VIN tag and it is clear, it has to be accepted by any state as a "rebody" in the past. It is saleable but I wouldn't suggest advertising it as a GTO since it, obviously, is not. Anyone knowledgeable in these cars is going to question the tag swap and may not be interested in it. It might prove to be a frustrating experience but he should be able to find a buyer. Price is completely up in the air with the situation and he's only going to get what someone is willing to pay and that may not be much. If you can't get any decent offers, it may be worth more parting it out and destroying the body and turning the title into the state as junked.

Good Luck.......:cheers


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

im not sure how much more verification is needed but i have more pictures. Casting Number, Data plate and VIN like i said earlier the vin number does match the number on the title. could it be possible that the car was an upgrade from the dealer? i know the gto had its own model by 67 but who knows its worth a stab. 

dkoester88 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

That car is 100 % standard Le Mans, from the gills on the side to the Lemans door panels. The only non-Lemans item I see is the '69 Firebird center console. To me, it looks like so many of these cars did back in the '70's and '80's: take a good looking, v8 powered car, add a couple of guages and some chrome valve covers, and go cruise the high school parking lot. It looks like a good, solid car, with potential. Good luck with the title nightmare. TMP is correct: VIN swapping is a Federal No No!
Jeff


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

dillonk said:


> im not sure how much more verification is needed but i have more pictures. Casting Number, Data plate and VIN like i said earlier the vin number does match the number on the title. could it be possible that the car was an upgrade from the dealer? i know the gto had its own model by 67 but who knows its worth a stab.
> 
> dkoester88 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


The pictures and data plate clearly indicate it is a LeMans. Interesting that the VIN is attached with the correct rivets. May have been done long ago or recently. The rivets can be found. As for a dealer doing the swap to enhance a sale, that would've been highly irregular and illegal, even in 67. The car has a cloudy past and there is 1 way to attempt to find the original VIN number. It may be stamped on top of the left frame rail behind the rear tire. You'll need a small mirror and flashlight to be able to see or read it. If the frame is rusty, it may not be visible. As it sits, it will be highly suspect to any knowledgeable buyer because of the obvious body style and conflicting VIN. As I said earlier, to advertise the car as a GTO would invite a fraud suit and as a LeMans with a GTO VIN, invites suspicion. There's no easy answer here, the car has been altered. The data plate indicates it didn't originally come with a 4 speed either. It's very possible that this was assembled from a wrecked GTO and the VIN plate swapped long ago before data plate info was a concern or even available. If you determine the original VIN, there may be more options available but I am 99% sure there is no way to verify this as a dealer installed option.


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## dillonk (Jan 11, 2009)

I guess right now, as it stands what are his options? A little work thrown into this car and you never know for the year it has minimal rust and it does run. how much could he reasonably ask for the car as it stands right now? if I can determine the original vin what options would there be then? we probably gotta wait for this darn snow to melt before he can get under the car and do anything but i figured i would ask.

thanks for everything,

Dillon


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

So the car has a GTO vin # but the body and DATA plate of a LeMans, correct?
It doesn't matter what the original vin was unless you had the vin tag and the title in hand for that vin # too.
As of now, if the vin on the car does not match the DATA plate or the car itself, then it's a parts car. They had to do that for a reason, either to scam someone or maybe the car was stolen and they tried this. But people have gone to jail for selling cars like that.


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