# Numbers of my car



## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

Hello everyone,

attached you will find a compilation of the numbers of my car:










in my opinion, the numbers are conclusive so far but the invoice date and the time built code of the rear axle do not really match the other numbers.

Any ideas about the Numbers?

Which numbers are important for the transmission?

by the way: the car was built for dealer 341 in region 24. Does anyone know the dealer no. 341?

Thanks
Holger


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Your dates are good for an early December build. Especially a Fremont (San Francisco Bay Area) car where the components had to be shipped by rail across the country from Detroit. 

Unfortunately there is no record of dealer 341 which is not unusual. Zone 24 was Southern California. Do you have the PHS documents? They usually have the dealership the vehicle was shipped to.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

O52 said:


> Unfortunately there is no record of dealer 341 which is not unusual. Zone 24 was Southern California. Do you have the PHS documents? They usually have the dealership the vehicle was shipped to.


Yes, I have the PHS documents but there is no reference to the dealer….


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## An0maly_76 (Dec 25, 2021)

Here's an idea. Many dealers sold vehicles from more than one GM division. It's possible as certain divisions such as Olds and Pontiac were killed off, perhaps the dealers had to be recertified or refranchised as a new dealer. This could possibly have invalidated the original dealer code, which might explain no record of dealer 341 in that zone. It's also possible the same thing could have happened if one franchise bought out another (as in one dealership franchise group buying a smaller dealership). Here's a link to a page that could possibly help. I'll poke around in the meantime and see what I can come up with.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Okay, it's late at night and maybe why dates aren't making any sense. This is supposed to be a 1966 GTO, and 1966 model year ran approximately mid September 1965 to September 1966, and most casting dates should be 3 weeks or earlier from invoice date. Most of the build dates listed are showing October to December 1966.

Invoice date and rear axle date are good, other dates are way into 1967 model year.


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## An0maly_76 (Dec 25, 2021)

Maybe it's a 66-1/2? Never heard of such a thing with Pontiac, but is it possible?


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

hm, I think, it will be a 66, here the information from the PHS:


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Photos of data plate and block casting date (by distributor) would be helpful.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

lust4speed said:


> Photos of data plate and block casting date (by distributor) would be helpful.


I had already published the numbers in my first post but here are the pictures:










Block Casting number:









Engine:









rear axle:









transmission:


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

My last post (pictures) is invisible until a moderators approval.

Does anyone know the reason?


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Probably triggered by your low post count. That annoyance will go away when the count increases.

While we are waiting for photos to be approved, the PHS contains the EUN (engine identification number) and it should match the same numbers stamped on the front of the block on the passenger side above the two letter block code.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

1967 PHS billing history cards was start of Engine Unit Numbers being displayed. So your 1966 PHS will not show the Engine Until Number. Protect-o-plate would have this info or original build sheet from the plant left in the car if available.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

Roger that said:


> 1967 PHS billing history cards was start of Engine Unit Numbers being displayed. So your 1966 PHS will not show the Engine Until Number. Protect-o-plate would have this info or original build sheet from the plant left in the car if available.


yes, you are right, I did not found the EUN in the billing history. Here is a picture:


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

The transmission code of P7T15 indicates:
P= Muncie 4 speed for passenger cars
7= Model year 1967
T= December 
15= 15th day of the month.

The transmission casting number 3885010 indicates 1966-1967.

The VIN number of the car or the last part of the VIN is supposed to be stamped on the transmission on the top.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

Roger that said:


> The transmission code of P7T15 indicates:
> P= Muncie 4 speed for passenger cars
> 7= Model year 1967
> T= December
> ...


great info, thanks a lot!

next week, I will look for the number on top of the transmission.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

There is no number on top of the transmission…..


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

The partial VIN number should be at the top right rear of the trans.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

Unfortunately no number available there….

maybe the partial VIN is only attached to the 1967 Cars….

(like the VIN on the Engines)


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Egenolf said:


> Unfortunately no number available there….
> 
> maybe the partial VIN is only attached to the 1967 Cars….
> 
> (like the VIN on the Engines)





Egenolf said:


> Unfortunately no number available there….
> 
> maybe the partial VIN is only attached to the 1967 Cars….
> 
> (like the VIN on the Engines)


My 68 has the vin on top of the muncie at the mid plate, my 66 has the vin on top of the muncie where the trans and bellhousing meet.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

Hm, maybe the transmission has been changed sometime.

The time built code of the transmission does not match the production code of the car anyway.


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Going from the info that you posted, I come up with your car as a 1966 GTO, built in the 1st week of Dec 1965, with it's original Oct 65 WH rear end, the engine date of J 1 6 and WW code is for a 1967 car, the Muncie date of P7T15 means ASSEMBLED Dec 15 of 1966 for a 1967 model year.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Duff said:


> Going from the info that you posted, I come up with your car as a 1966 GTO, built in the 1st week of Dec 1965, with it's original Oct 65 WH rear end, the engine date of J 1 6 and WW code is for a 1967 car, the Muncie date of P7T15 means ASSEMBLED Dec 15 of 1966 for a 1967 model year.


The block casting number is for a 1965/66 389CI, so no way it is a 1967(cast Oct 1966) engine. Some of those casting numbers are not sharp and the one provided is not clean. That is a "5", not a "6" which would be correct for the car.

The "093" heads should also have a casting date and coincide with the engine date.

The trans could have been easily swapped out, either dealer or someone along the way. If the case does not have a VIN, I might be inclined to go with a warranty replacement - which would also fall within the warranty period.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Good point on the trans if there isn't a partial VIN number. Definitely would have a number if it had been pulled from another car. Wasn't the warranty for 65's 3 year, 36,000 mile?

Maybe Egenolf can take a wire brush to the block date code and confirm the last number is a 5.


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## Egenolf (Feb 18, 2020)

Thanks all for your comments, I appreciate them very much.
This week, I will try to clean and to verify the block casting number.
Where are the casting dates of the 093 heads located?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

IIRC under the valve cover


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