# 2004 GTO, undesirable?



## s5pitfire (Oct 10, 2011)

Greetings!

I'm a senior in college, and am currently looking for a GTO (and also 350'z but the GTO is safer and more powerful) and quickly found out about all of the changes from 2004 to 2005. They made so many changes that it forced the 2004 to become somewhat obsolete just because of the huge changes, not just subtle tweaks and refinements like adding a few hp.

Upping the power up to 400hp/400tq from 350hp/360tq with the change from LS1 to LS2 (and going from 6000rpm redline to 6500) makes me want a 2005/2006 way more now. The hoodscoops and dual (and louder) exhaust are great bonuses too. 
If you were to modify the LS1 to match the power of the LS2, you'd probably need a CAI, headers, exhaust, tune, and still fall short? Then I would think "damn if I did all of this to an 06 i'd have even MORE power"

I did a 200 mile search on autotrader, and the 7 most expensive GTO's are 2006 models. The next 14 are all 2004 models, and several of them only have ~50k miles and are going for around $5,000 less than the cheapest 06 with similar miles. I must have 6 speed manual, i'll drive an automatic when i'm 70 years old. Most of them are autos.

My question is, do you think the changes are important enough for me to wait 6 months to a year for an 05/06 to appear? My budget is $12-13k and the cheapest 2006's in the nation are just that, will just have to wait a long time for one to appear in my state.
I'm coming from a 1998 3000GT 5-speed base model, which only has 161hp/185tq. I have an intake and exhaust. Unfortunately it is leaking oil even after fixing the leaking crank seal. I'm thinking that a 350hp v8 will be more than enough to satisfy my power needs. The most powerful car i've driven is a stock 300hp 3000GT VR4 (twin turbo v6, AWD, 3700lb), and that thing really hauled ass.

Maybe I am just being nitpicky and should pick up a clean 2004 with low miles. If you've drove both the LS1 and LS2 GTO, could you notice the power difference a lot? Did any of you regret buying an 04, only to find yourself upgrading to the LS2?
Thanks for reading.


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

IMO, i think the LS1 is a superior motor, there is absolutly nothing wrong with getting a 04 GTO compared to the 05 or 06. I love my 06 M6, but from what i read, its really not that much more of a performance difference  All three years of the GTO's are sick, and fast. It comes down to what you really want ?? 04, or 05-06. Ohh, and make sure you dont knock the Auto's to bad, because they rip through the 1/4 mile very nicely 

Jason


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

6speedlover said:


> IMO, i think the LS1 is a superior motor,


Just curious, why?


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

First of all, there are many 04's out there that will spank my 05. So power wise, it is marginal at best. Every year puts down a sufficient amount of power. Whether you go the 04 or 05/06 route, you're going to get bitten by the mod bug. The power will never be enough. 

Secondly, your statement saying the 05/06 have dual louder exhaust, is actually not all true. The 04 exhaust is probably one of the best made exhaust systems in a long time. With a nice pair of LT Headers, it really opens it up and sounds phenomenal. 

I think you should make a decision for yourself. There are many things that were improved from the 04, including the bigger motor. If you like the 04 better, go for it. Do not base your decision solely on the power it puts down. Either way, you're going to want more.


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## twincharged91 (Feb 4, 2009)

s5pitfire said:


> Greetings!
> 
> 
> I'm coming from a 1998 3000GT 5-speed base model, which only has 161hp/185tq. I have an intake and exhaust. Unfortunately it is leaking oil even after fixing the leaking crank seal. I'm thinking that a 350hp v8 will be more than enough to satisfy my power needs. The most powerful car i've driven is a stock 300hp 3000GT VR4 (twin turbo v6, AWD, 3700lb), and that thing really hauled ass.


If you think a stock VR4 hauled ass then I think you will be more than happy with an 04.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

LS1 - Around 300 RWHP. 

LS2 - Averages between 330-340 RWHP

CAI - 10-15 rwhp (tuned)
Catback - 5-10 rwhp (tuned)
Headers - 15-25 rwhp (tuned)

This would put the 04 GTO at around 340 RWHP. Right at the 05/06. Not as bad as you think.


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

HP11 said:


> Just curious, why?


Are you asking me why i think the LS1 is superior motor? Or did you think i meant more superior than the LS2 ? Not sure what your question is ?


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

I think he thought you meant superior to the LS2. 

The LSX motors are superior motors. That's a very true statement.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Falco21 said:


> I think he thought you meant superior to the LS2.
> 
> The LSX motors are superior motors. That's a very true statement.


Yeah, that's why I posed the question the way I did. I think we're all in agreement though; no year of GTO is 'undesirable'. :cheers


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

HP11 said:


> Yeah, that's why I posed the question the way I did. I think we're all in agreement though; no year of GTO is 'undesirable'. :cheers


Agreed :cheers

Not a night and day difference between the years. Very small. Personal preference is what drives the purchase.


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## s5pitfire (Oct 10, 2011)

Yep, not to try and put down the 2004's, I mean it is 95% the same car but it would just drive my crazy if I know I could've gotten an 05/06 with 20k more miles and have 50 more hp, i mean that's equivalent to all of those bolt ons. As far as personal preference, I definitely like the 05/06 hoodscoops and rear bumpers/exhaust more, looks slightly more modern and not as dated. However, I wouldn't go through the trouble to change the 04 body.

Right now I plan to get any model year, whichever 6MT with under 90k miles and under $12k, that comes up first. Most likely it will be the 2004. I just don't want to wait a year or more for an 05/06, the GTO is really a muscle car. 

I know some people think it looks like a boring grand-prix, big heavy boat. The design got a lot of flack fir being too conservative when it was released and had direct compeition with the new mustang design and dodge chargers. But I've always liked the sleeper look, only car people know "oh that's a GTO, it has a corvette motor". It's just interesting that Holden didn't bother to make it look even remotely like the early GTO's. Another important factor is how uncommon they are, they only made about 40,000 of them, where I see *tons* of mustang's on the road. Hardly ever see goats. Otherwise i'd also be looking at GT's and even 03 Cobra 

I really like the blue one. Such a great color.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Two blue colors. Impulse Blue Metallic and Midnight Blue Metallic. Both are awesome colors.

You are absolutely right that it is very uncommon. I love driving down the road and people turning wondering "what the hell is that thing?"

Also love the sound of the GTO with an x-pipe. A lot more exotic sounding. I can hear a Mustang from a mile away, just by knowing what they sound like. When I drive the goat, people turn wondering what the hell that sound was  

Reassures me as to why exactly I bought this car


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## Bossin (Jul 27, 2011)

get a 05 06 your gonna regret it in the long run


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

04, 05, 06, manual, auto, and any color of the rainbow - you can't go wrong. Now, beat or not beat - that's what will kill you. I've seen some amazing 04s sell within your range, you just need to look on the forums.

Still, since you're a senior in college I'd say buy a new Kia Soul for 13, have nothing to worry about, and buy whatever you want when you're through with your education. I know that's nowhere near what you asked, but I thought I'd throw it out there :lol:. Just what you save on insurance could cover gas and maintenance.


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## s5pitfire (Oct 10, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> Also love the sound of the GTO with an x-pipe. A lot more exotic sounding. I can hear a Mustang from a mile away, just by knowing what they sound like. When I drive the goat, people turn wondering what the hell that sound was


I sometimes forget that it has such a huge motor, a full 1.1-1.4 liters larger than the mustang GT of the same years. I have a testpipe and cat-back on my 3 liter v6, it's not too loud, but I'm not sure if I could handle such a large motor with an exhaust.... wait who am I kidding, it sounds like a monster.




MikeV said:


> Still, since you're a senior in college I'd say buy a new Kia Soul for 13, have nothing to worry about, and buy whatever you want when you're through with your education. I know that's nowhere near what you asked, but I thought I'd throw it out there :lol:. Just what you save on insurance could cover gas and maintenance


You kiddin? i'd feel extremely awkward driving any of those tiny econo-box cars. Not to mention unsafe. Almost got a RSX-S a-spec a few weeks ago, but man those are some tin cans. Also 4 cylinders are torqueless


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Unless you are racing the car, you won't really know what you are missing, so the LS-1 is fine. It will feel plenty fast, and you save a ton of money. Don't buy the first car, buy the best car you can for your money, or you will spend a ton to fix up a beat on car.
Pontiac named the car GTO as a last ditch effort to have a performance car prior to their demise..


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## Spiceredm606 (Jan 21, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> Two blue colors. Impulse Blue Metallic and Midnight Blue Metallic. Both are awesome colors.
> 
> You are absolutely right that it is very uncommon. I love driving down the road and people turning wondering "what the hell is that thing?"
> 
> ...


There's actually 3 blue colors. Impulse,Midnight and Barbados.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Spiceredm606 said:


> There's actually 3 blue colors. Impulse,Midnight and Barbados.


Barbados was only available for 2004.

I was referring to the 05/06 models


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

Spiceredm606 said:


> There's actually 3 blue colors. Impulse,Midnight and Barbados.


Im a Pa boy also :cheers Are you anywhere near Sewickley ??? Im Spice Red also  I have seen a few Gto's this year in our area, nothing wrong with hooking up in the Spring to shoot the $hit with some Gto lovers.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Falco21 said:


> Barbados was only available for 2004.
> 
> I was referring to the 05/06 models


Midnight was only available for 2005. (I couldn't resist..)


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

There were other differences in the 04 than just the motor. The brakes were smaller, the differential was a little weaker, and the drive shaft couplers were smaller. I think the half shafts were smaller, also. The exhaust was true duals, just came out the same side.

Larry


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## dude515 (Mar 30, 2011)

ive driven both the 04 and 06 models and i actually prefer the 04. but only just. small things like the fact that on the 04's pontiac spent time listening and digitally analyzing the exhaust note of old muscle cars and tried to duplicate that in the 04, wheras in the 06 it was just put together and happened to be ok. the ls1 has much better aftermarket support, and in my opinion the better of the two motors. now my 04 has a custom cat back and x pipe and sounds glorious. my best advice is to learn about some of the common problems that the gto's have


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## Spiceredm606 (Jan 21, 2011)

6speedlover said:


> Im a Pa boy also :cheers Are you anywhere near Sewickley ??? Im Spice Red also  I have seen a few Gto's this year in our area, nothing wrong with hooking up in the Spring to shoot the $hit with some Gto lovers.


No i'm about an hour outside of Philly. Try Ls1GTO.com there are alot of Pittsburgh guys on there.


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## Spiceredm606 (Jan 21, 2011)

AlaGreyGoat said:


> There were other differences in the 04 than just the motor. The brakes were smaller, the differential was a little weaker, and the drive shaft couplers were smaller. I think the half shafts were smaller, also. The exhaust was true duals, just came out the same side.
> 
> Larry


and the gas,brake and clutch pedels were upside down.


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## Spiceredm606 (Jan 21, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> *Barbados was only available for 2004.*
> I was referring to the 05/06 models


No Sh!t, I must be a Newb.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

spiceredm606 said:


> no sh!t, i must be a newb.


lol.... Pete, stirring things up over here now?


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## BlackJackByte (Aug 31, 2009)

I've been in both and driven them plenty (friend has 05). Believe me, what you're hearing is correct, you have to find the car that's right for you. 50hp is not going to make 2 sh!ts difference. And the "sleeper look" you talk about wanting, well that's an 04 easy. And yes the 04 does sound better. I'm not gonna lie, a lot of people say they think I'm a yellow Cobalt from afar though. I'd love to have an 05 YJ that's all original and lower mileage but there's no way I'm paying that much money for something with just a little bigger motor and a couple visual aesthetic pieces. I'll buy a vette.

All years are really nice cars and are something truly unique, none are 'undesireable'. I doubt you'll be dissapointed. I actually have my car posted in the for sale section but it's a bit more than your budget, take a look if you can.

Lastly, being in college, I'd save my money until you have a career and a several steady paychecks under your belt. These cars aren't cheap to repair and/or mod. Plus with gas costs, why hassle yourself right now....wait a year and the prices will be the same if not lower I'm sure. But it's your money and life so do what makes you happy just don't be stupid like some people.


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## Spiceredm606 (Jan 21, 2011)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> lol.... Pete, stirring things up over here now?


Just want to join this party.arty:


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

Spiceredm606 said:


> No i'm about an hour outside of Philly. Try Ls1GTO.com there are alot of Pittsburgh guys on there.


Thanx for the Heads-up


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## 2004goat (Feb 10, 2010)

I love my 04 QSM a4 and my dad has a 06 SRM a4. I have a catback cai and tune and he is all stock in the 1/8 mile he ran a 8.8 and i ran a 8.7 Both are great cars. I would love to have a 06 BOM just because its my favorite color. but i well also keep my 04 what ever you choose well be great. Its by far the best car i have ever had and i always look forward to driving it. good luck


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## gggto (Sep 21, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> Agreed :cheers
> 
> Not a night and day difference between the years. Very small. Personal preference is what drives the purchase.


I bought an '04 simply because the styling isnt as flashy. Leaves a bigger suprise when you blow past a mustang


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Hood scoops and different exhaust/rear valence make 05-06s look 'flashy'? Not sure I can get to that one........


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

gggto said:


> Leaves a bigger suprise when you blow past a mustang


You do realize that 05+ Mustang GT and the 04 GTO run about the same 1/4right? Only change you really have is from a roll where the Mustangs longer gearing are its weak spot. LS2s will walk me though... atleast until Christmas when I get my tuning software, 4.10s, and cams.

If money wasn't the issue, I'd buy an LS2 goat over an LS1. More cubes and stronger block = more potential down the road... but buying the LS1 leaves you a few $1000 for starting mods which easily put you neck and neck with a stock LS2 for the same price out the door.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

There might not be "2 sh!ts difference" but generally, from what I read, the only people that are saying that they actually *prefer* an 04 over an 05-06 are people who own 04's. Let's be realistic, who wouldn't want 50 more hp, bigger brakes, stronger drivetrain, etc.? If I was 'on the outside looking in' I'd be looking for an 05-06. (Just as I was 2½+ years ago)


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

The bigger brakes are $400 used and the drivetrain parts are slightly stronger but still weaksauce in th grand scheme of things. Its basically the motor that is the 'real' difference.


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## GT 2 GTO (Oct 22, 2011)

I'm in the same boat as you. So only advice I can give, I jumped on the first low priced Mustang GT I found, Love the car but its not worth my time and money to get it a blower and supporting mods. I wish I would have just waited for a cobra/mach 1....which leads me to the decision now, why spend the money on a cobra/mach 1, when I could have a gto for less money and will still keep up


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## BlackJackByte (Aug 31, 2009)

HP11 said:


> There might not be "2 sh!ts difference" but generally, from what I read, the only people that are saying that they actually *prefer* an 04 over an 05-06 are people who own 04's. Let's be realistic, who wouldn't want 50 more hp, bigger brakes, stronger drivetrain, etc.? If I was 'on the outside looking in' I'd be looking for an 05-06. (Just as I was 2½+ years ago)


Yeah, who wouldn't want all that. I don't prefer the 04' nor did I say so. It was YJ and the 06' next to it was PBM and about $2k more with more miles as well. I wanted yellow and as I've said, while I'd love to have a nice 05' YJ and all, I'm not paying considerably more for 50hp. You're kidding yourself if you think there's that much difference.


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

I bought the 06 goat for the Faster Power Seats !! And all really needed was a 4 banger  lol


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

BlackJackByte said:


> Yeah, who wouldn't want all that. I don't prefer the 04' nor did I say so. It was YJ and the 06' next to it was PBM and about $2k more with more miles as well. I wanted yellow and as I've said, while I'd love to have a nice 05' YJ and all, I'm not paying considerably more for 50hp. You're kidding yourself if you think there's that much difference.


This thread really needs to go away because points are being argued that aren't even worth arguing. In fact, points are being argued that weren't even being made. I never said *YOU* in that statement; it was a generalization. I even used the phrasing "but generally". Nor did I say that I thought there was "that much difference".


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GT 2 GTO said:


> which leads me to the decision now, why spend the money on a cobra/mach 1, when I could have a gto for less money and will still keep up


Your in faiirytail land if you think a GTO is less money then a Mustang.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

jpalamar said:


> Your in faiirytail land if you think a GTO is less money then a Mustang.


I _think _he's comparing to a new Mustang.


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## s5pitfire (Oct 10, 2011)

thanks guys...

so today I finally got to drive some GTO's for myself. Also drove a few 06 Z's. I'm in love with the GTO, the interior is very nice, it feels more safe , and the +100tq and +50hp is definitely noticeable even though its about 500 lbs heavier. Fastest car i've ever even ridden in  let alone drove

Drove a couple black 04 6MT's today, unfortunately the one with 44k miles is salvaged title. But the one with 61k isn't and drove great. It was all stock except flowmaster exhaust, sounded really good. Only thing was, it almost felt like I would grind the gears if I shifted quickly when it was cold (but never grinded), so i babied it for a bit and once it was warmed up it shifted flawlessly when I ran it hard. Maybe I'm just so used to shifting slow in my current car because it grinds easily when cold. Its hard to remember, but the one with less miles didn't seem like it needed to be babied when cold... hmm.* How does your tranny act?*
Both are $14k

I'm stuck in a dilemma, if I should wait for an 05 to appear? The cheapest 05/06's in the nation are about $14-15k and typically higher miles. So could be a whole year before one appears with ~60k miles. The power is so close that the 1/4 mile time is only about 3-4 tenths difference. Hard decision.
Hell there's a couple in my area with ~50k mile going for $20k!!!! :O


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## Littleguy (Jul 3, 2011)

I decided to go with my low mileage 2004 as opposed to a 2005+ model due to the lower cost and lower mileage. I did end up replacing my rear differential (upgrading it to 2005) but it only cost me $500 so it wasn't that bad.


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## EZ28 (Feb 16, 2010)

I wanted an 05/06 but found an 04 first. It was the only GTO I ever drove and I loved it. Mine is a BBM A4. My only regret is I wish I would have waited to test drive an M6. I had M6 LS1 Firebird Formula and loved it. The mods I've done so far are Magnaflow catback, K&N CAI, Custom Diablew tune, Pedders RR bushings, Energy Suspension bushings. Next mods will be long tubes with high flow cats, heads and cam, stall torque converter. Also, I don't drag race or go to the track, this is my DD car. That doesn't keep me from having the mod bug though. I love it! I've replaced a few parts but this has been a really reliable car. My goat now has 73K and I plan to put well over 100K on the car. I don't plan on selling it. You should seriously consider your budget on gas too because you won't be putting regular like Mustangs. Our cars take Premium, even though it's only recommended. Don't use the crap gas, especially with a tune, you will regret it.

My advice get the best GTO for the money.


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

i bought the first GTO that i drove, an 05 with some work done on it. Any GTO you get will be great. i looked for one with a little work done on it already since i'd end up putting extra money into it.


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## gto_grl1982 (Jun 19, 2011)

I bought an 04 Cosmos Purple 6-speed GTO 1-owner, garage kept with a little over 19,000 miles on it for $15,500. The owner requested that the 05 hood be put on the car before committing to purchase it from the dealership. There were only 366 6-speeds of this color produced total. I drove 300 miles round-trip to get the car. So, for me I chose to get the color I wanted and not so much the 6.0 L that came out in 05. The car is bone stock right now, but plan to mod it over the winter. Would love to put a pro-charger on it! I don't regret getting the car one bit! I love it and so does everyone else! I don't drive it very much (as it is not my daily driver), but when I do it receives tons of complements! I love taking it to the drag strip on Fridays nights to race in the street class.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

Cosmos is one of the best looking you can get. They're really hard to find, and you found one that could be called new :cheers


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

Mike_V said:


> Cosmos is one of the best looking you can get. They're really hard to find, and you found one that could be called new :cheers


:agree :cheers I Love that color.


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## gto_grl1982 (Jun 19, 2011)

Yeah...it was hard to find! Especially since I wanted a 6 speed, instead of an automatic. There were more automatics produced in that color than 6-speeds. But, none the less...it's a pretty rare car! 

There are a few gto's running around here where I live, but I've got the ONLY purple one! Alot of people have never seen the cosmos purple one in person and are in disbelief of its existence. I love proving them wrong! lol.


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