# 66 gto 4 speed stuck in gear?



## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

when we flat bedded the car home for the first time it seemed stuck in gear. i had to have the winch pull the car forward and push the clutch in and then the shifter would move. i have taken the car out on 5 occassions since then . no problems went forward through gears and reverse. today i was gettin it on to the freeway . smokin tires 3 gears and then into fourth for the ride home. when i exited the freeway seems stuck in 4th gear. can't move shifter into r 1 2 3 stuck in 4th. any ideas? push the clutch in and car rolls like in neutral


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

You'll have to get underneath and see what's binding up. I would remove the 3rd-4th gear shift rod from the tranny and see if the shifter lets go. If so, then try to shift the tranny into neutral without the rod attached. It could be the shifter, the rod ajustments, or the tranny.


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## REX (Jan 21, 2009)

Rukee said:


> You'll have to get underneath and see what's binding up. I would remove the 3rd-4th gear shift rod from the tranny and see if the shifter lets go. If so, then try to shift the tranny into neutral without the rod attached. It could be the shifter, the rod ajustments, or the tranny.


:agree

I used to have a '66 Chevelle that had that problem. Linkage would get bound up so I'd have to climb under manually manipulate the linkage, and then tighten down the linkage bolts. Probably need new linkage and/or lock tite on the bolts.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

thanks. keep it simple is the first rule i should follow.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

REX said:


> :agree
> 
> I used to have a '66 Chevelle that had that problem. Linkage would get bound up so I'd have to climb under manually manipulate the linkage, and then tighten down the linkage bolts. Probably need new linkage and/or lock tite on the bolts.


Sounds like you still had the original Muncie shifter in there. They were total junk and the first thing that got changed to a Hurst. Pontiac was smart enough to use Hurst from the factory. The 'numbers" Chevelle guys are now paying BIG money to put the Muncies back in their "original" cars and they are even being reproduced. Some things should just be left alone. I threw away a lot of Muncie shifters and good riddance to them.

Auburn, could be the shifter is dry and binding. Spray it good with a quality penetrant/lubricant, like JB 80, PB Blaster, etc. WD 40 is NOT a quality lubricant, you might as well spit in it.
The other thing that could cause this is a detent arm in the side cover. If after removing the 3-4 rod from the shifter, you still can't get the rod to move back to the neutral position, try tapping on it with a suitable hammer. It will take some force to move the shifter arm against the spring and ball inside, but not excessive force. If it won't budge, the side cover needs to come off for inspection.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I heartily agree with the above posts. Usually, it's the linkage.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

the shifter bar and handle both say hurst. this is my first stick shift car. went under the car and moved rods and levers by hand. the rods have adjustors on them them with cotters pins holding them to the levers. they seem very loose in the levers. is there a bushing rebuild kit? there are no washers between the cotter pins and levers. it is raining so i can not test drive it .


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

The lever closest to the bellhousing is the 3-4 shift rod. Remove the cotter pin and rod from the lever. The lever will be leaning forward. Once you remove the rod, you should be able to move the shifter in the car freely. If not, the shifter itself is binding. If the shifter is bound up, go back under and look at the shifter unit from underneath. All 3 levers should be lined up pointing straight down. If not, move them so they are. You will see a hole in the body of the shifter just above where the levers come out. Insert a 1/4" drill bit in that hole and move the levers to allow it to slide all the way thru. That is true neutral position of the shifter. Move the lever on the trans to straight up, see instructions further on, I wrote this in the wrong sequence. See if the 3-4 rod will line up with the hole in the trans lever. If not, move the adjuster until it will. Do the same for the next lever back (1-2) and the reverse rod on the tailshaft. Once you have all the levers adjusted to neutral remove the drill bit and see if it will go thru the gears. If the shifter moves easily, go back under and try to pry the lever back to a vertical position, which will place the trans in neutral. If it takes a lot of force to move the lever, there may be a problem in the trans. The lever is under spring tension so it is going to take a pry bar and reasonable leverage to get it to pop back one position. That amount of force is normal. 
The rods should have bushings on them. The normal bushing is white nylon and there is a special retainer to hold them in with the rod. If there are cotter pins, it will let the rods flop around more and if the bushings are worn or non-existent, then the bind is most likely in the linkage itself. The arms in the shifter need to place the rods precisely to release one gear and go to the next and if it is all sloppy, it will engage 2 positions at the same time and lock up like you are describing. Hurst makes a bushing replacement kit that is available at most auto stores or on line. They have a standard kit with the nylon bushings and a heavy duty kit with steel bushings. The steel bushings will transmit more internal noise from the trans and some rattle from the rods themselves, but they are the only bushing I use. If you coat the metal bushings with marine grease before installation, much of the noise is reduced.


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## REX (Jan 21, 2009)

Too Many Projects said:


> Sounds like you still had the original Muncie shifter in there.



You're right, I did! I was the 2nd owner in 1986 at 17. It only had 60K original miles on it. Marina Blue 327 4-speed Malibu. Wish had that one back!! The Muncie was in the trunk when I sold it !!


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

very cool. thanks too many. i'll get all new bushings and pins.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

removed rods and the front lever is stuck. it is stuck in 4th gear in the trans. the shifter moves fine. i'll pull the trans and pull the cover next week. thanks for the input. what trans do i have? it is stamped 3885010 on the side. muncie? saginaw? this is my first manual.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

auburnconsulting said:


> removed rods and the front lever is stuck. it is stuck in 4th gear in the trans. the shifter moves fine. i'll pull the trans and pull the cover next week. thanks for the input. what trans do i have? it is stamped 3885010 on the side. muncie? saginaw? this is my first manual.


I wouldn't pull the trans right away. If the reason for binding is in the shift fork/detent, that is in the side cover. I would remove the side cover first and look at that. 
You have an aluminum case Muncie. That casting number was used from 65-67, so it could be the original. Most likely an M20, but it could be an M21 also. Can't tell which until you count the teeth on the first gear or remove the trans and look at the rings on the input shaft.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

thanks i will pull cover. does this take gear case oil after i fix the problem?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Yes, standard 80-90 gear lube. I wouldn't suggest going to a synthetic unless you have all the seals changed.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

found a few local muncies for sale . if my has bad gears. what replacement should i look for? too use till i rebuild mine? 66-72? are they all the same? b-o-p? chevy? thanks


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

auburnconsulting said:


> found a few local muncies for sale . if my has bad gears. what replacement should i look for? too use till i rebuild mine? 66-72? are they all the same? b-o-p? chevy? thanks


Yes, all Muncies have the same bolt pattern and will interchange with all GM cars. 
3 models...M20, M21, M22. Most GTO's came with the M20 which has a lower first gear ratio (2:52)for the weight of the car and was known as a "wide ratio". An M21 will have a higher first gear ratio (2:20) and was known as a "close ratio". It will require some clutch slippage to get started out versus the M20. An M22 is the "ROCK Crusher' trans and I doubt you will find many and they will cost significantly more than either of the other 2. It also has the same gear ratios as the M21 but the gears are angled to withstand much greater torque.
An M20 will have 2 rings around the input shaft and an M21 will have 1. An M22 doesn't have any rings to identify it but if the input shaft has been replaced in any of them in the past it may not have any rings either. Some applications used a 21 spline input shaft versus the usual 10 spline, so you need to know which you currently have to match the clutch disc.
Also, the side covers changed after 67. Up to 67 the shift levers were held to the shafts with nuts. After 67 they were retained with a bolt and I don't know if the shift levers interchange between the 2. I suspect not, because that is always a concern when buying a linkage kit. That means if buying a newer than 67 trans you would also need to buy a linkage kit to use your shifter body with. 

My bet right now is a problem with the side cover. Usually if the gears get crunched or worn inside, the trans will pop out of gear, not jamb engaged. If you have an experienced manual transmission shop in your area, they may be able to help determine what the problem is once you get the side cover off and take it to them. That is what I would do before messing with another trans that, as I pointed out, may need another whole linkage kit, UNLESS the trans came with them. The shifter body is interchangeable with many makes and models so getting the correct rods with a replacement trans would be good.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Don't worry about a replacment tranny, the original one can be rebuilt in an afternoon and shouldn't cost much more then about $300.00. :cheers


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

$300??!!! A few years ago I brought my 4 speed Saginaw to the local tranny shop and was charged $1000 for a rebuild! I don't think they replaced any gears. Synchro's and seals for sure and replaced the fluid with Amsoil. I know I could have spent an extra $400 or so and bought a new one that would have been better than a Saginaw, but, didn't want to spend the extra $ at the time. When you live out in the boonies your limited with specialized mechanics. Sounds like I took it up the keester but good!:willy: I think I'll go ice fishing today b/4 the snowstorm hits tomorrow. Maybe I'll feel better...........


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

68greengoat said:


> $300??!!! A few years ago I brought my 4 speed Saginaw to the local tranny shop and was charged $1000 for a rebuild! I don't think they replaced any gears. Synchro's and seals for sure and replaced the fluid with Amsoil. I know I could have spent an extra $400 or so and bought a new one that would have been better than a Saginaw, but, didn't want to spend the extra $ at the time. When you live out in the boonies your limited with specialized mechanics. Sounds like I took it up the keester but good!:willy: I think I'll go ice fishing today b/4 the snowstorm hits tomorrow. Maybe I'll feel better...........


1k for a "freshen up" does sound a little high alltho I think Rukee is referring to $300 for parts. There's no way you could get a Muncie rebuilt around here for that. I spent over $600 for new gears and an overhaul kit (syncros, bearings, blocker rings, seals,etc) a couple years ago for an M20 I have yet to assemble....


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

That was for parts and labor in `07. It needed an imput shaft, one shifting fork, all the bearings and synchro's. It might have been $350.00, but it wasn't any more.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I'm gonna start bringin' my stuff over to 'sconsin for repair. With labor at $90-110 an hour in this friggin town, I can't afford to have anything done outside my shop....


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I think I spent about $350 when I wnt thru mine in 1983!!! California prices. I'll bet the gears in your '66 are OK. I'm guessing a damaged shift fork or a side cover issue. Too Many Projects nailed it on his descriptions of the trannys. BTW, I always use the sintered metal shift rod bushings and spring clips from Hurst. I don't like the Nylon ones.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Too Many Projects said:


> I'm gonna start bringin' my stuff over to 'sconsin for repair. With labor at $90-110 an hour in this friggin town, I can't afford to have anything done outside my shop....


More to the story, isn't there always... While sitting on the ice fishing this afternoon(caught a bunch of nice bluegills), it dawned on me that I had the shop take out the tranny and put it back in. I had just bought the car, Sept. '03, and wanted it fixed ASAP so I could put some miles on it b/4 the snow flew. I just didn't want to mess with it. They, really I, purchased a used tranny for $250 and swapped some parts out, gear being one, maybe tail shaft too. I believe that was the cheapest route to go at the time. I know the front and rear sections are from 2 different years. Replaced all bearings/syncros w/new parts. Anyway, parts $426 and labor $540(I just found the receipt). So I guess it wasn't as terrible as I first thought considering everything involved. Pardon a slight hi-jack......


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

took the cover off and no dice. can't shift out of 4th. removed tranny. i could not move front slider either direction, nor could i turn over trans by hand. emptied fluid and continued to try to rotate. had reverse engaged. disengage, it rotated. cleaned and looked through old fluid. there is 2 peices of metal. one looks like the front angled peice of tooth from the the brass ring, syncro? the other is steel, stamped with a T. has 4flat sides and the one has a bump with a worn middle.. it has 2 broken ends, it is flat. 8mm long 7 mm wide 6 mm high. i can out figure how to post pics, duh!!!


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

also my gears are on an angle. so which trans do i have?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

The syncro ring broke and let the slider lock fall out. As long as there is no damage to the gear teeth, it just needs a rebuild kit and maybe a new slider/hub.

All the teeth are at an angle. Look at the input shaft (the end in the bellhousing/clutch) Do you see any rings around it ? 1 ring is M21, 2 rings is M20.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

E-mail the pics to me and I can host them for now.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

it has 2 rings on the input shaft


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

auburnconsulting said:


> it has 2 rings on the input shaft


M20 Look for a partial VIN stamped in the main case near the midplate. If the last 6-7 digits match your VIN you have the original trans.


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## auburnconsulting (Nov 3, 2008)

the vin is not close. i did not suspet it was original. it has a 12 bolt posi and the 389 has 670 heads, edelbrock intake and holley carb. the exhaust has cutouts with covers.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Here's a couple pics of the trans. They were pretty small and I tried to make them larger.


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