# Suspension Questions and Help '71 Lemans



## NorwalkNugget (Aug 5, 2011)

Ok folks... here's the deal. I want to replace my suspension but I need input/advice.

I'll first start off by saying that this car has Airshocks and I believe they were added because the rear Cragar wheels have too positive an offset (stick outside fender somewhat and thus wheel well fender would crash down on the tire wall thus causing damage to the tire.

I'm guessing that there's nothing I could do to the rear springs to keep the car at a height and spring rate that doesn't cause the above to happen so I want to know what can I do to correct this (I know changing the wheels would be a start)

Also I've been told I'll need to replace tie-rods in front soon so rather than only doing 1 thing, I want to just gut it out and do everything so what would be the best recommendations. This car is 3-4 day a week daily driver that can see upwards of 60 miles a day.

I also notice when on highway I get a little bit of bouncing action in front end before it settles down if that makes any sense. Any ideas on getting the car to be planted?

Also steering feels loose... Want to get it tightened up but don't know how...

Best guess how many hours of labor I'm looking at from a shop/flat rate price???

Newbie questions but I know you guys never let me down on answers so please HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:willy:


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

hey, dont know what year gto you have but im sure the car will look alot nicer with cragers that fit your wheel wells, air shocks or not. i would bring the car to a top shelf alignment shop and have them go through everything to fix your problems. there are so many components involved... rickm


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

First thing, you need to get wheels that fit. No ammount of adjusting can change that. 

As far as what you can do to your suspension to stay stock-ish and still improve greatly on what's there, you should PM BearGFR, he's done some REAL NICE THINGS with the suspension on his 69. I will be stealing MANY ideas from him. 

You can see some of it here -
http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/rear-coil-springs-37193/index2.html#post305074


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

hey there Norwalk...

I guess the biggest question is how much do you want to change and how much do you want to spend? This is an area where you can burn up some serious cash in a hurry if you go chasing "the best of everything". YOu can make big improvements by just going back with all stock parts that are in new condition. Your steering wheel "looseness" is very likely the worn tie-rod ends you already know about. The bounce is probably worn out shocks. I bet if you were to put on all new stock pieces (tie rod ends, ball joints, bushings front and rear, shocks front and rear) --- maybe replace the springs if they need it -- and by all means get some rear wheels that fit right --- you'd be amazed at how much better the car would drive and feel. Going beyond that is very possible, but like I said it can get expensive quickly --- so... what all do you want to to?

Bear


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

You can adjust the worm gear in your steering box "a little" to tighten it up if it's still loose after you've inspected replaced all the moving parts in your steering setup.

For rear wheels I run a 9 1/2" wide rear with 6" backspace for maximum rubber on the ground but that's a pretty fat tire with lots of sidewall bulge. Borrow, rent or buy a Percy's wheelright to find the optimum backspacing for the wheels you want.

Also dragbags in the rear springs will stiffen things up and allow you to have passengers in the rear with no "droop". :cheers


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## NorwalkNugget (Aug 5, 2011)

@Pontiacpurebrred - Thanks!
@Alkygto - Will do. I'm guessing previous owner bought wheels at a swap meet or something and just "made them work" 
I will hunt for a replacement. I know I have 15's for Cragars. I forgot what the rear was.. I had it measured last summer but my idiotic self forgot to write it down somewhere to remember. 
@BearGFR


> hey there Norwalk...
> 
> I guess the biggest question is how much do you want to change and how much do you want to spend? This is an area where you can burn up some serious cash in a hurry if you go chasing "the best of everything". YOu can make big improvements by just going back with all stock parts that are in new condition. Your steering wheel "looseness" is very likely the worn tie-rod ends you already know about. The bounce is probably worn out shocks. I bet if you were to put on all new stock pieces (tie rod ends, ball joints, bushings front and rear, shocks front and rear) --- maybe replace the springs if they need it -- and by all means get some rear wheels that fit right --- you'd be amazed at how much better the car would drive and feel. Going beyond that is very possible, but like I said it can get expensive quickly --- so... what all do you want to to?
> 
> Bear


Thanks for the input. As always I'm all about being on a budget but since this is a matter of safety I will spend a little bit more for piece of mind. My primary goal of this car is for it to be solid, reliable to the point that my wife could drive it on the highway without me worrying that something is going to break down on her.

So essentially my rule of thumb with this car is the previous owner wasn't on top of his game with this car so I want to replace things with parts that I KNOW are in good condition.

So it sounds like the airshocks were probably added previously as a bandaid to saggy rear springs... 

Lets say I want to replace as much as possible with $1000 budget. What can I do that gets most bang for my dollar and do you guys recommend any particular brands/products?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Alrighty then... here's what I'd do in your case:

On the front end, replace "everything" with new, quality, stock parts. That means, tie rod ends, center link, idler arm, ball joints, upper and lower control arm bushings, sway bar end linkes, sway bar mount bushings, and shocks. If you want to firm up the handling a little, then you could use polyurethane or polygraphite bushings instead of rubber for all the "rubber" parts. Before you take it apart though, take a good look at the ride height. If the front end seems "too low" to you, then its probably time to replace the springs too.

Rear: thing one is to get rid of the air shocks and get some wheels that fit correctly. You won't really know "where you're at" until you do that. Having the back end up in the air is even going to throw off how the front end sits, so take care of this first if you think you might need front springs. On the rear is where you've got some major deciding to do. The first choice is whether you want to keep stock/mostly stock control arms or if you want to go aftermarket. If you're going stock (or mostly stock, which means replacing the original un-boxed lowers with factory style boxed lowers), then you SHOULD run factory type rubber bushings. You don't want to try polyurethane bushings with factory type arms because they just make the rear end want to bind up more. For the rear suspension to work correctly, you NEED those rubber bushings to be able to flex and give a little. If you're running any kind of power at all, racing any, I recommend adding a set of control arm mount braces as insurance against doing ugly things - like ripping the upper mounts out of the frame and/or bending the upper crossmember. They just make everything stronger and don't alter the ride any. Beyond that, a good pair of shocks - and factory replacement springs if you need them. 
If you want to step up your game on the rear, then go with fully adjustable upper/lower control arms. Make SURE you get the ones that have sphereical type joints/bushings on them (both ends for the lowers, at least on the frame end for the uppers) - otherwise you're just wasting money and won't see any improvement. Because of all the angles and the geometry of how the rear suspension works, the sphereical bushing arms are the only type that will allow it to move in all the directions it needs to without binding. This is also why you must stick with the rubber bushings if you're running the factory style control arms (either boxed or unboxed). Another advantage of adjustable uppers is that they let you adjust and optimize all your ujoint/driveline angles (sometimes referred to as "pinion angle" - but I think that term is a litle misleading). Adjustable lowers allow you to move the wheels forward/backward a little for tire clearance, and also for adjusting the rear axle centerline so that it's exactly parallel to the front axle centerline. With adjustable lowers, a good front end shop with the right equipment will be able to perform a complete "4 wheel" alignment for you.
If you stay with the factory type arms but upgrade to the boxed ones, then also consider adding one of the factory type rear sway bars to improve handling. A better type rear sway bar is one that mounts the end-links to the frame instead of to the control arms. I'm running one like that.

That's the direction I'd go. Get the front "right and tight" with new factory style parts (maybe some poly), do whatever it takes to nuke the air shocks, then see what's left in the piggy bank for upgrading the rear.

Bear


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

thought goal was to diagnose steering and suspension problems and correct...


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

It would be best if you could do the work yourself, way cheaper. At shop rate, replace what is bad, but it will never make it a "as new" car. Replace the shocks yourself, then have a shop fix what is broke. The real fix is the replace everything scenario described by others. I did that and put a faster gear box in, then put all poli bushings and sway bar parts, plus new springs and the car drives great, stiff but smooth.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree with Bear, make the front new now and you will thank yourself. If your center link is bad that will cause the loose wheel and your steering box is probably fine, you can do most or all of that yourself with a shop manual for under 500.00 with springs and a decent set of gas shocks (pay someone with a press to do your bushings on the A-arms). When taking out front springs be careful, i cable mine to the frame so when you POP them out they don't become a projectile. Now the new rims and rubber it will be over your remaining budget, so i would find some thinner rubber for your rears that will get inside the wheel well lip, gently used will do if you plan on replacing the rims in the near future. Rear springs, shocks and bushings would be next, that should get you right around a grand and on the road. If you have 90 left grab a set of drag (air) bags for inside your rear springs they make a big difference in ride quality with the stock configuration. and don't forget to take it in after done for an alignment.


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## NorwalkNugget (Aug 5, 2011)

I've done it now... bad thing happened last night. Was driving kind of fast on highway... next thing I know the back of the car drops like a rock and I'm scraping up the rear fenders walls with the tires. Somehow it sounds like I cut a line or something with the air shocks and sprung a leak. Now it does not hold any air. The fact that the car is sitting directly on the tires.. is that an indication of bad springs?

Shouldn't the springs alone be able to hold the car upright or is it a combination of spring and rear shocks? And would be wise for me to have airbags inside the springs on top of regular gas shocks or just gas shocks and springs and what would be best spring to get to keep car from bottoming out going forward?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Either bad springs, or something broken that shouldn't be (like a spring seat). The purpose of shocks are to dampen the rate of movement -only- they aren't designed to hold the weight of the car for any significant length of time. With the car sitting still, you should be able to completely remove the shocks and still have the car sit at normal ride height.

Bear


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## NorwalkNugget (Aug 5, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Either bad springs, or something broken that shouldn't be (like a spring seat). The purpose of shocks are to dampen the rate of movement -only- they aren't designed to hold the weight of the car for any significant length of time. With the car sitting still, you should be able to completely remove the shocks and still have the car sit at normal ride height.
> 
> Bear


I always fear for the worst... how bad would a broken spring seat be and what would I be looking at repair wise in terms of cost and what's involved... I'll be googling as I go along but I've learned enough that I'm tired of throwing my hard earned money at mechanics that take 4 weeks to do a 2 hr job so I'm gonna invest in a jack, jack stands and try to tackle all this on my own... condo association be damned if they say anything to me working on my car in parking lot.


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