# Found a complete 70 455 Ram air? need help



## bhuff (Apr 3, 2015)

I found a documented 70 gto with ram air that is phs doc and I have the build sheet from under the gas tank stating such but I cannot find any info on them existing. Everyone tells me there is no such thing from the factory or that it is a judge. Further more it is 4 spd with ac. Any info on finding the value of this guy? It needs full resto but is complete and is in good straight shape. Any help would be appreciated!


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

The Ram Air engine option was only on the 400cid. However a 455 cid car could order the optional Ram Air Hood option (code 601) even though the engine itself is not Ram Air.

Did you purchase the PHS or was it provided to you with the car? What is the code on the build sheet that tells you that you have a RA 455?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Yes, they had them. We just had a recent discussion on the same topic. Do a search for "YC stamped engine in 1970 GTO?" and you can read it.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

This is just my opinion but the 455 was never advertised as a Ram Air because it had standard exhaust manifolds where the 400 Ram Air engines had all the Ram Air components making them the complete Ram Air package engine. I guess you can say that 455s are Ram Air inductions since they did have a special carb and intake but lacked the exhaust.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Roger that said:


> This is just my opinion but the 455 was never advertised as a Ram Air because it had standard exhaust manifolds where the 400 Ram Air engines had all the Ram Air components making them the complete Ram Air package engine. I guess you can say that 455s are Ram Air inductions since they did have a special carb and intake but lacked the exhaust.



Agreed. It seems it was a package that included the specific carb mated to the Ram Air induction. Looking at the Wallace Racing website, the Ram Air exhaust manifolds were not part of the package -they were the same as the standard 400CI, non-RA. (However, the 1971 Judge was delivered with the standard 455 HO Ram Air engine which included the aluminum intake & Ram Air exhaust manifolds.) The non-Ram Air 455 engines had a different carb number. Only one HP level is given for either engine - 360HP. What I find interesting is that the same 455 in the Grand Prix was rated at 370HP. 

Chevy, Olds, & Buick were all planning on installing engines over 450CI in their A-bodies, so Pontiac had to keep up with the competition. As 1970 was the first year of the 455 and buyers were already familiar with the RA option on the 400CI, my guess would be it was a marketing ploy by Pontiac to get buyers to opt for the 455 as a performance option even though the 360HP was rated at a low 4600 RPM's while the RA III was rated at 366HP @ the 5100RPM's. Perhaps the 455 did indeed make 370HP at 5100 RPM's (which was also the redline on the tach), but it's power rating was kept lower for insurance reasons. 

The Jan. 1970 *Car & Driver* road test of the 455 GTO stated:
"They could have screwed on the big port heads and plugged in the long duration camshaft from the Ram Air IV; that stuff will all fit. It probably would have made the GTO go like a nickel rocket too, but they knew better than to do that. The business of collecting up the spent GTOs that would have fallen along the wayside after a short, dazzling flash and reloading them(with new engines -my interpretation) on warranty was out of the question. Consequently, the 455 is a torquey, low revving device that makes very little ruckus and works great with an air conditioner. Pontiac very definitely wants you to keep the revs down so the tach has a 5100 rpm redline and a 3.31-to-one axle ratio is standard (w/4-speed, 3.07 w/auto, with 3.55 by special order and nothing more)." 

So this review would also indicate that Pontiac was concerned with warranty engine replacements if they had really gone big on the HP knowing that GTO buyers would have been over revving them and blowing them up. The RA 400's could take higher revving and were built for such.:thumbsup:


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## bhuff (Apr 3, 2015)

Roger that said:


> The Ram Air engine option was only on the 400cid. However a 455 cid car could order the optional Ram Air Hood option (code 601) even though the engine itself is not Ram Air.
> 
> Did you purchase the PHS or was it provided to you with the car? What is the code on the build sheet that tells you that you have a RA 455?



Yes it has that option 601. It does have the ram air pull lever inside the cab as well. How many of these were made? The guys at pontiac said there was only 15 with ac and 4spd. How do I validate that? Is the car worth anything? Thanks guys!


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## bhuff (Apr 3, 2015)

Here is what she has.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

You can't argue with the build sheet and billing history card.

WA engine is the 455 HO L75

WR carb is the Ram Air carb used with the L75

DP is the M21 4 speed close ratio trans. It looks like there were 2 M21s available . DL used for 3.90 and lower gears and then your DP which was used for the higher gears. You could not use the DL with the Air condition option.

The axle code of WU also supports the 455 L75 option 4 speed. This is the 3.31 code non posi. All other cars with A/C and non L75 engine could only get 3.23 gears as the lowest gear option on the A/C option. If you had an auto trans with the L75 then the gear ratio would have been 3.07.

I'm sure your car is rare as is. I don't have any numbers to give you.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"The guys at pontiac said there was only 15 with ac and 4spd. Is the car worth anything?"

Nope, not worth a darn thing. Don't waste your money on it. Where are you located? I'll come and pick it up and take it off your hands before you throw your money away on such a "money pit" project car like that.


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## bhuff (Apr 3, 2015)

Anyone know where I can find the value of this "moneypit":smile2:? Trying to decide whether to just sell it or find the funds to restore it. If I go that route to what level do I take it to? Color is not a desirable color - sierra yellow with a white cordova top and saddle interior - is it better to do a color change that is more desirable? I would love to keep it but I fear that it will just be one of those projects that will sit until I have the time and money. Having both at the same time could equal a long time from now lol. Just trying to weigh my options. I'm new to the whole pontiac scene but am quickly starting to appreciate them. I also have a 1970 black on black numbers matching 4spd that is a driver and love it!


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

What color combo is the car? i know of several '70 455 4spd RA projects, including one I own. the "1 of 15" deal could be a number of '70 455 4spds made out of one assembly plant, not all 5 plants. Have seen the 70 production sheets that Fred Simmonds compiled in the mid 80's, just don't remember seeing a 1 of 15 notation. Can prob come up with the copies, the 71's and 72's def have copies of the sheets. One of my back burner projects is a Baltimore built '70. PHS note RA 455 4spd, safe-t-track,console, buckets, rally guage & tach, AC, all softray glass, am-fm multiplex, pwr windows, JL coded rallyII's, pwr disc, pwr strg, trunk release, maplight. Atoll blue/sandlewood. Am missing several items such as the RA carb, multiplex stereo, car needs full restoration.

Value wise, restored they bring 1/2 what a similar color and equipped numbers match 4 spd 70 RAIII Judge brings. That unfortunately is the problem, I'm not a guy that buys GTO's to flip, never have been, but at the same time, can't get 75k into restoring to high level a car that at best will bring 50k.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Value is based on what level you want to "restore" the car to. The color/top combo sounds unique and I bet not many made if you were to compare it to other 455 HO RA as yours. You can make it a nice, but not perfectly restored, driver.

If you can do a lot of your own work, you can keep costs down. If you have to farm out the work, then you are going to pay top dollar. Don't know the condition of the body/frame as you have not said its condition or provided photos of the car. 

Does it run/drive? Could you get it running/driveable? Maybe rebuild it in stages and break it down into groups, ie brakes, front suspension, rear suspension, engine, etc.. Pontiacs engines are not inexpensive to rebuild when compared to a Chevy or Ford, but you can do it on a reasonable budget IF you rebuild the engine with a stock rebuild in mind. Once you begin to go bigger HP with forged/aluminum parts, you pay for it -and you won't necessarily get your money back out of it.

I honestly believe that many people who get their car "restored" don't get their investment back and accept the loss. If you can do a lot of the work/labor yourself, then you have a better chance of recouping your investment, but this always turns your project build into a much longer time frame than if you paid someone to do the work for you. This is where many get discouraged because you have to fit your life's time into the rebuild and a few hours here and a few hours there can turn any project build into years -so you have to weigh this one out as well.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Here is some more on official production figures:

Keep in mind '70 GTO's have been documented as being built out of the following assembly plants:

Arlington, TX
Baltimore, MD
Framingham, MA
Fremont, CA
Pontiac MI
Oshawa ON

'70 455 engine code WA = 1919.
'70 455 w/RA option = 543 (302 WA /241 YA, YC).
'70 455 WA GTO convert= 158 (94 built at Pontiac MI)
'70 455 WA GTO hardtop= 1761

'70 455 WA w RA option = 91 built at the Pontiac MI plant 

302 minus 91= 211 WA coded 455 w 601 Ram Air option built at other assembly plants

Still looking for a copy of Fred's sheet breaking this down further.


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## bhuff (Apr 3, 2015)

Really cool! Thats the kind of info I was looking for. If you can find the further breakdown that would be awesome! This one is a freemont car. Im guessing its 1 of 15 455 RA car 4spd with AC possibly?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Most likely the 15 figure is for the number of 455 engine code WA installed at the Fremont plant, either as WA engines or as WA engines with 601 RA. Just too many factory AC 455 4spd GTO's out there, and AC was getting to be a very popular option by 1970. Airconditioning has only been addressed on all the production sheets I've looked at by a total number of A-body's built in a year with A/C. There have been numbers listed for how many RAIII Judges were built with M20 4spd and AC, and Fred was the one that made those notations, so until can review all of the '70 production sheets, can't break it down any further. Will send two friends a note, they most likely have the copies I'm missing.


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

An awesome find to be sure! And I know there are collectors out there that go batty over the 455 HO engine in ANYTHING. That said your car is worth the exact same amount as any classic car out there. Exactly what someone is willing to pay. Without seeing the car (or even pictures of it) there's no way to even ballpark it. If it's a survivor with it's original paint, and components all in driver quality shape then it could be quite valuable - if it was poorly restored (or even nicely restored) it might hurt the value, if it's a rat trap, roached out shell that needs 100K to bring back well that could seriously affect the value. 

Just say'n. And again, nice find. :thumbsup:


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## gtoguy4 (Feb 6, 2015)

Unless you are a good body man, or own a body shop, you cannot get your money back on a restoration today, It' just too expensive to pay someone to do the work. To do the car correctly would cost thousands and thousands of dollars. A paint job alone goes 10,000 dollars and more for a correctly done job. That's why my 20 GTOs still have their original paint.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

There are lots of misconceptions floating around about 'Ram Air' - which I mostly blame on how long ago these cars were built and the fading memories of all us olde guys , also on the fact that Pontiac leveraged the term 'Ram Air' to the hilt in marketing campaigns... The term "Ram Air" can be used to refer to the open air/cold air induction system (hood and air cleaner components) and it can also be used to refer to certain engine combinations beginning as early as 1968 (Ram Air, Ram Air II) through 1970 (Ram Air III, Ram Air IV, Ram Air V). The "Ram Air" induction system (hood and air cleaner) most certainly was available from the factory on cars that did not also have one of the "Ram Air" engines. It gets even more fun. The 1968 Ram Air, and the 69-70 Ram Air III were D-port engines (usual D-shaped center exhaust ports) while the 68 1/2 Ram Air II and the Ram Air IV were round port engines (discreet round center exhaust ports). But wait, there's more.... The 455 SD ('73 and '74) and also the '71 455 HO were also round port engines - but they weren't called 'Ram Air' - despite the fact that if you pay attention to the specs on the 455 SD, the cam it used was identical to the Ram Air IV, and the intake was nearly identical. Then there's the Ram Air V. Only available over the parts counter and never available from Pontiac in a production vehicle. The heads were unique. Big honkin' round intake ports with the pushrods in tubes right through the middle of them, round exhaust ports, and a valve arrangement that was EIEIEI instead of the 'normal' Pontiac EIIEEIIE.

Bear


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

cool stuff guys...thanks for sharing.

Bill


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## intheslot (Apr 29, 2016)

boy you keep that car. it is rare and not a money pit, so you sit on it. ever see what rust bucket mustangs are going for ? one guy says he'll take it off your hands Tell him $40K you know he'll double if not triple that good luck to ya


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