# Stroker Owners Report



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I though it would be a good thing to start a thread where owners of stroked Pontiac engines could share their builds. I will be picking out the parts to build a stroked 400 block and would love to look through a list of builds to give me an idea of what others have successfully done.

Below is a list of engine specs that largely describe an engine build...or at least enough to make decent comparisons. If you have other specs that should be added to the list...let me know and I will add it to the list right below as we go.

If your build is not top secret, share the specs of your stroker build (as much as you know, anyhow). Feel free to link other stroker build threads or spec lists that you know of...If we get enough builds, I will compile the data in a spread sheet for easy comparisons.

*Stroker Specs*

1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - **400*
*2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - ???
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) - ???
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.150"
5 Final Deck Height - ???
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - ???
7 Compression Ratio (Static) - ???
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - ???
9 Heads (Make & Model) - 670 OEM
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.77" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 72
12 Head gasket thickness - ???
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - Yes
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - Yes
15 Intake (Make & Model) - '67 OEM 400
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - Manifolds
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) - 2.5" RA Manifolds
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) - Quadra Jet OEM
19 Cam (Make & Model) - ???
20 Cam Specs - ???
21 Rocker Ratio - ??? 
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) - Stamped 
23 Rocker (Make & Model) - OEM
24 Push Rod Length - ???
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - ???
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power - ???
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires - ???
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Hyd Tappet*
*29 Lifter (Make & Model) -** ???*
*30 Ignition: - OEM Points
31 Fuel Octane - ???
32 How do you get to that octane (91, 93, + additive w/brand, race fuel mix, etc) - ???*

The above list can be copied from this post and pasted into your post for filling the specs. The above is all I know of my build so far and I will fill it in as it becomes more compete or change my mind, as I will!

I have attached a spreadsheet with everybody's data up to July 15th, 2022. If you want the Excel spreadsheet, PM me with your email address.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Bear GFR has been running a pretty stout 461 built off of the original 400 in his '69. Perhaps a PM to him will garner you some info? He's a very sharp and helpful gentleman who has spent a lot of time tuning/building his engine.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I have read and appreciated so much of Bear's lendings to the forum (and many others, that's why I'm here). I can tell he holds a large amount of knowledge. I am sure he will have an influence on my build, if he hasn't already.  This is the reason for the thread...It's an invite to share you build to help all, myself included, to get started on a stroker build.

I'm looking at starting with the rear tires as the key design factor. I'm not tubbing my car so, the largest tire that seems common is the 8 wide rim. Maybe I can get a 9" with the right rim and rear end sett-up...10" ??? I will certainly consider running drag radials (or cheater slicks). I want to build the rest of the drive line to accommodate that type of tire traction. I'm not entering a burn-out competition...I want to hook up and run quarters well, while looking rather original, but not sounding it.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Nice idea... here's mine:

*Stroker Specs*

1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - **400*
*2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - Forged Eagle - 4.250 stroke - 3.000 mains
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) - Forged Eagle H-Beam rods - 6.800 length, King Racing main and rod bearings, Total Seal file fit rings, gapless top, LUHN 80 psi oil pump
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.160"
5 Final Deck Height - Original to the car block (hasn't been decked)
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - Forged, Ross Custom, D-shaped dishes with 14cc's clearance volume
7 Compression Ratio (Static) - 10.49:1
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - 8.2-8.3:1 (depending on whose calculator I use)
9 Heads (Make & Model) - Edelbrock RPM round port, Dave Wilcox "entry level " ported
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.190" intake, 1.77" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 74
12 Head gasket thickness - 0.042
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - Yes
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - No
15 Intake (Make & Model) - KRE Northwind
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - Headers
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) - Doug's, D567 - JetHot ceramic coated
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) - AED 850-HO w/annular boosters
19 Cam (Make & Model) - Bullet
20 Cam Specs - 251/257 I./E. duration @ 0.050 tappet lift, 110 LSA, 0.620 net lift at the valves (lash accounted for, with 1.5's), installed @ 106 ICL
21 Rocker Ratio - 1.5:1
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) - Full Roller
23 Rocker (Make & Model) - Crower Enduro Stainless - 1.5:1 ratio
24 Push Rod Length - 9.300 Smith Bros. - 5/16 0.116 wall 
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - 560 "or so"
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power - Haven't
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires - Haven't
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Solid Roller*
*29 Lifter (Make & Model) -** Crower Cutaway Standard Height w/High Pressure Pin Oiling option*
*30 Ignition:** Progression Ignition computerized HEI*

Bear


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sick467 said:


> I have read and appreciated so much of Bear's lendings to the forum (and many others, that's why I'm here). I can tell he holds a large amount of knowledge. I am sure he will have an influence on my build, if he hasn't already.  This is the reason for the thread...It's an invite to share you build to help all, myself included, to get started on a stroker build.
> 
> I'm looking at starting with the rear tires as the key design factor. I'm not tubbing my car so, the largest tire that seems common is the 8 wide rim. Maybe I can get a 9" with the right rim and rear end sett-up...10" ??? I will certainly consider running drag radials (or cheater slicks). I want to build the rest of the drive line to accommodate that type of tire traction. I'm not entering a burn-out competition...I want to hook up and run quarters well, while looking rather original, but not sounding it.


Same 👍


----------



## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

hey bear, do you like the 850 with annular boosters? i have a holley 850 dp with annular boosters but haven't used it yet.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

So here's mine that was built by Butler in 2014 for a guy that sold it to the guy I got it from with neither of them installing it, but I did into my '65 in 2018. I kept watching for the cops on the way home because I felt like a thief, it's cut off of the picture but the build sheet shows 12,600.00....I paid 7500.00 ! So I changed out the intake to an Eddy Performer RPM, changed out the carb to an 850 dp custom Quickfuel, and changed out the rockers to Scorpion 1.65 Race, also 2.5" ram air exhaust manifolds. From my research it's about 9.36 : 1 compression. I always use 93 octane with 36° total advance with no detonation, it's a 4spd with a 2.99 first gear and a 3.42 twelve bolt with lift bars and 275/60/15 drag radials and I still can't get good traction, I think it's got to be close to 500hp...in other words a beast that puts an ear to ear smile on me every time I pound the go pedal 😊


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Sick467 said:


> I have read and appreciated so much of Bear's lendings to the forum (and many others, that's why I'm here). I can tell he holds a large amount of knowledge. I am sure he will have an influence on my build, if he hasn't already.  This is the reason for the thread...It's an invite to share you build to help all, myself included, to get started on a stroker build.
> 
> I'm looking at starting with the rear tires as the key design factor. I'm not tubbing my car so, the largest tire that seems common is the 8 wide rim. Maybe I can get a 9" with the right rim and rear end sett-up...10" ??? I will certainly consider running drag radials (or cheater slicks). I want to build the rest of the drive line to accommodate that type of tire traction. I'm not entering a burn-out competition...I want to hook up and run quarters well, while looking rather original, but not sounding it.


FYI, Your safest bet on rear rim/tire width will be an 8" rim if you want to keep it inside the well. We had a member with a 1969 GTO ad 12-bolt. Here is what he had that fit inside his wheel wells with some lip rolling:

"I run M/T streets 29.5x12.5 on a 9.5" wide Weld rim with 5.5 backspace. Stock wheelwells, stock rear end width. Honestly the biggest set of tires I could fit in the stock wheelwells although I did do some trimming and I also rolled the fender lips to prevent cutting the sidewalls. To fit your rims you will have to jack up the rear. I would consider trying to get a wheel that will fit in the wheel wells. Go to my "garage" and I think there are some other pictures of my car that show how well it fits. Both my rims were custom ordered it is very difficult to find a wheel with this off set. John. "

And here is another post I saved:

"If you want a 28" tire:
You can run Mickey Thompson 28x11.5-15 ET Streets
You can run Mickey Thompson 275/60r-15 ET Street Radials

If you're really making power, and want a 30" tire:

You can run Mickey Thompson 30x12.5-15 ET Streets
You can run Mickey Thompson 295/65r-15 ET Street Radials
You can run Mickey Thompson 315/60r-15 ET Street Radials

I have 295, and 315 radials on a 8" rim.

On an A-body, it’s hard to beat a 275/60/15 on the rear and a 225/70/15 on the front. Fills the wheel wells without the “joe dirt” look....

I’ve run just about every tire made. The 275/60/15 Mickey drag radials get the job done. Running the “pro” version as we speak, EXCELLENT tire!"

I will be running the Hoosier 30x12.5-15 tires on a 10" aluminum slot rim having a 3.5" backspacing, but the car will be jacked up in the back to clear the tires, and if I have to do any trimming for clearance, I don't have an issue cutting the wheel wells a little for fit and finish - but I don't believe I will have to.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....and here's the cam, 15 inches of vacuum.


----------



## familiescare (6 mo ago)

That high


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Here's mine. Some of my choices were not conventional but it is extremely healthy at everything except very low RPMs.

I started with a short block so I don't have 100% of the information on it but here's a link: 455 Short Block

1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - 400 - 1971 block
2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - Eagle 4.250 stroke
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) -461 
4 Final Bore Diameter - 0.030" overbore
5 Final Deck Height - ???
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - ???
7 Compression Ratio (Static) -9.5 : 1
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - ???
9 Heads (Make & Model) -6X ported with larger exhaust valves (Nitemare Performance Stage II)
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.77" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 96 cc
12 Head gasket thickness -0.045"
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - Yes
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? -no
15 Intake (Make & Model) -Torquer II
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers -Shorty Headers
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) -Heddman
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) -Edelbrock Performer 800 CFM
19 Cam (Make & Model) - Comp Cams Extreme Energy XE284H CCA-51-225-4
20 Cam Specs -lift 0.507"/0.510" duration 284/296intake/exhaust 110 deg of lobe separation
21 Rocker Ratio -1.5
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) -Roller, 
23 Rocker (Make & Model) -Comp Ultra Gold
24 Push Rod Length - 9.450" Smith Bros
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - ~500 estimated by Darrin at Nitemare
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power -NA
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires -NA
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Hyd flat Tappet
29 Lifter (Make & Model) - Comp
30 Ignition: - Pertronex HEI with vac advance

added:

31 Fuel Octane - 93
32 How do you get to that octane (91, 93, + additive w/brand, race fuel mix, etc) - at the gas pump 93 is available in MA*


----------



## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Jared said:


> Here's mine. Some of my choices were not conventional but it is extremely healthy at everything except very low RPMs.
> 
> I started with a short block so I don't have 100% of the information on it but here's a link: 455 Short Block
> 
> ...


jared, i think you mean 4.25 stroke probably a .060 over 400 bore. sounds like a nice combo.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jared said:


> Here's mine. Some of my choices were not conventional but it is extremely healthy at everything except very low RPMs.
> 
> I started with a short block so I don't have 100% of the information on it but here's a link: 455 Short Block
> 
> ...


So I see you have 9.5 compression, are they flat top pistons because going by the chart on Butler's site mines coming in at 9.36 but I have smaller head chambers at 92cc than yours. Idk the gasket thickness but could look it up and don't know how much the piston is in the hole, mine is 0.35 or 0.40 over with a 455 crank. Maybe I have more compression than I think.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

ponchonlefty said:


> hey bear, do you like the 850 with annular boosters? i have a holley 850 dp with annular boosters but haven't used it yet.


Man is that ever a loaded question...  To be honest, I'm not sure that I've ever gotten it really "right" on my current build. 'Tis a long and sad tale that I won't bore everyone with excessively (I hope),so I'll try to summarize. When I first built the engine after the 2016 rocker failure and "upgraded" to the current configuration, I had the devil of a time trying to get the carb dialed in and ended up reworking/recalibrating nearly every circuit in it in the attempt. Turns out, there was a mechanical issue in one cylinder that was throwing everything out of whack that ended up causing yet another tear down and rebuild. It's only been back together from that build for about 7 months now, and so far I've had to "undo" nearly every change I made to the carb prior to that. I thought I finally had it, but the last time I drove it just a couple weekends ago in our currently and consistently 100+ degree heat here, it started acting up again and running SUPER rich at idle/low throttle in the heat. And I'm not sure why yet. It was so ugly I wasn't sure I was going to get it back home.

Part of the challenge I'm sure is caused by the cam I'm running. from about 1000 rpm down to 800 rpm, the vacuum signal drops off a cliff which I'm thinking is playing havoc with the idle circuit. When RPM drops, the thing goes extremely lean and doesn't want to keep running. Just a slight increase in engine load at idle, like when the electric cooling fans kick in and put load on the alternator, is enough to make it really unhappy. 

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to reset it back to "out of the box" configuration and start over, solely on the assumption that the guys at AED probably had it close to right as it was shipped and I just didn't know it because of the other problems I had.

The nice thing about Holley's is that they're super adjustable. The worst thing about Holley's is that they're super adjustable (lots of opportunities to get things wrong).

Bear


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> So I see you have 9.5 compression, are they flat top pistons because going by the chart on Butler's site mines coming in at 9.36 but I have smaller head chambers at 92cc than yours. Idk the gasket thickness but could look it up and don't know how much the piston is in the hole, mine is 0.35 or 0.40 over with a 455 crank. Maybe I have more compression than I think.


Yep. They are flat top. I was also going by what I remembered calculating two years ago when I set all this up. It's possible I neglected to include the gasket thickness into the equation at the time. I also found slight variations from one calculator to the next for different Pontiac websites. Could be mine is closer to 9 to 1 or yours is a little higher than you think. Either way, it probably doesn't make a huge difference.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

ponchonlefty said:


> jared, i think you mean 4.25 stroke probably a .060 over 400 bore. sounds like a nice combo.


Ha! I'll fix that. It was supposed to be a 0.030" overbore on an uncut 400 block. I copied the OPs list and changed what didn't match mine. Saw the 4.25 and went with it.

I have edited a few things above. Added the push rod length and adjusted a few of the other things too. Since I didn't build the bottom end, I was going on what I remembered from conversation with Len from over 2 years ago. The paperwork is somewhere but my organization skills on that sort of thing is a bit spotty. I'm not a binder full of receipts type of guy. Honestly, with what this cost to put together, probably a good thing I didn't keep close records.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Jared said:


> Ha! I'll fix that. It was supposed to be a 0.030" overbore on an uncut 400 block. I copied the OPs list and changed what didn't match mine. Saw the 4.25 and went with it....


Thanks for catching that folks. I have changed mine to reflect 30-over a stock 400 bore = 4.150"


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Here's the chart from Butler for popular builds, since I don't know all the specs of mine I went by this. So 9.36 is with 96cc chambers and mine are 92cc so maybe I'm at 9.4:1 ?


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Here's the chart from Butler for popular builds, since I don't know all the specs of mine I went by this. So 9.36 is with 96cc chambers and mine are 92cc so maybe I'm at 9.4:1 ?


Now that I see it I remember using that as a guide early in my build planning stage. I was originally planning on going with 87cc aluminum heads and a roller cam. Then I started running costs and it started to get out of hand. I ran across Nitemare (Darrin) and found their prices for the ported cast to be very fair. He was the one who talked me into a flat tappet camshaft. Even with reducing the cost on the heads and cam, my build went way over budget (hence the not being to meticulous with receipts). Luck had it that I ordered everything I needed for the build and then waited for the block and heads. Prices went way up by the time I put all of this together.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jared said:


> Now that I see it I remember using that as a guide early in my build planning stage. I was originally planning on going with 87cc aluminum heads and a roller cam. Then I started running costs and it started to get out of hand. I ran across Nitemare (Darrin) and found their prices for the ported cast to be very fair. He was the one who talked me into a flat tappet camshaft. Even with reducing the cost on the heads and cam, my build went way over budget (hence the not being to meticulous with receipts). Luck had it that I ordered everything I needed for the build and then waited for the block and heads. Prices went way up by the time I put all of this together.


I hear you, I was really torn and wanted to go with the KRE 85cc heads flowed to 290 or 315 but I just couldn't justify another 3K with gaskets, bolts maybe pushrods and then didn't trust myself to crack the motor open plus just spending 7500.00 that I didn't plan on and I had so much stuff to put around the motor. Called Butler and they said I wouldn't gain much HP over what they did to them as they flow 220-240 with all good parts, yes I could have sold them for a good buck but what's done is done and it's scary enough


----------



## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Here's what I designed and built - originally I wanted it to be just a strip car but later decided to put the engine into my 1968 Goat. 10.25 CR works on 93 Octane, and I tried to design for low end torque which is about what I got. Cool thread!

1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - 400 I left it as a 2 bolt main.
2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - Stroker 4.25" stroke
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) - Bore of 4.165, stroke 4.25 so I forget, around 462 or so.... But yes it was a Butler kit with Cast Crank, forged H rods and pistons.
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.165
5 Final Deck Height - 
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - Ross with depression to give me 10.25 CR
7 Compression Ratio (Static) - 10.25
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - 
9 Heads (Make & Model) - #16 Stock with Inserts, valve job, etc....
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.77" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 72cc if I recall
12 Head gasket thickness - .040 
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - Nope - zero porting done to heads, manifold, etc. Felpro Intake gasket.
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - Nope
15 Intake (Make & Model) - Edel Performer RPM (Wanted Dual plane to try to target high torque at low RPM)
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - Doug Headers
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) - Yep above....
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) - 1976 Quadrajet with Cliff re-work - right down to new plating.... I love her very much....
19 Cam (Make & Model) - Butler CCA-BP8030SP Hyd Roller
20 Cam Specs - 236/242 at .050 .521/.540 112 LSA
21 Rocker Ratio - 1.5
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) - Roller
23 Rocker (Make & Model) - PRW-0245501 
24 Push Rod Length - I forget
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - 
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power - 498 Max at 5,200 RPM - 600 Ft. Lbs at 4,200 RPM
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires - 
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Hyd Roller
29 Lifter (Make & Model) - Johnson I forget numbers
30 Ignition: - DUI Distributor (Performance Distributors)*


*Wagner PCV w Moroso Catch Can*
*CVF Serpentine Pulley system - no A/C*
*1968 GTO*


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

The lists are piling up!



Baaad65 said:


> Here's the chart from Butler for popular builds... ?


Baaad, can you link that "popular build" chart from Butler?...I can't find it on their site and it lloks like it would fit right in here.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Do you know my computer skills, I took a picture of my screen and posted it that's how Ben Franklin works 😃 it's in the tech drop down under compression calculator.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

To help out. Here's the calculator @Baaad65 used:



https://butlerperformance.com/n-12872-compression-calculator.html


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sure you can be all scientific about it but isn't seeing the lines of the computer screen trippy, by the way Mr. scientist when I click on that link the page is cut off on the right so you're not seeing the other two chamber sizes...now where did I put my Blackberry and my Bad Company cassettes 😁


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Sure you can be all scientific about it but isn't seeing the lines of the computer screen trippy, by the way Mr. scientist when I click on that link the page is cut off on the right so you're not seeing the other two chamber sizes...now where did I put my Blackberry and my Bad Company cassettes 😁


Sounds like another operator error my friend  Try scrolling to the right (or push the right arrow, bottom right of your key board). Sounds like the link opened in a page that was bigger than your screen. It happens sometimes, probably a setting thing on you PC. I just followed the link and it does work to give a full screen. 

Wait a minute. So you were able to take a picture, add a circle around it, and then post it here but a link was a no go? They way you did it was way harder than copying the link. Maybe we gotta get you a pair of horned rimmed glasses and nerdy you up a bit.

All joking, I liked your solution to not knowing how to do something. Way better than the "I can't do it so I'm not going to try" attitude. 

This may help. To insert a link:

You need to have multiple tabs open on your browser to do this (one tab where you are trying to insert the link to and the one for the other page that you are trying to link from). Click on the tab you are trying to link to, you go to the address bar at the top and place the cursor to the right of all the text (or to the very far right of the box if the text goes past the end). Click and hold the left mouse button. While still holding, drag the mouse to the left across the text so that it is all highlighted and release the button. Don't push any button yet but move the curser to anywhere on the highlighted text and push the right mouse button and a drop down should appear. Click on copy. Now go back to the tab where you were typing, preferably the GTO forum, and put your cursor where you want the link to appear, push the right mouse button again, the same drop down list should appear, click on paste. It sounds way harder than it is but when done, takes about 4 seconds to do.

Let me know if this helps, or if there's any step that doesn't make sense. I'm happy to help with what I know. Keep in mind, we have a wide range of ages and computer skills on here. If you didn't know how to do this, chances are someone else was having the same issue too.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jared said:


> Sounds like another operator error my friend  Try scrolling to the right (or push the right arrow, bottom right of your key board). Sounds like the link opened in a page that was bigger than your screen. It happens sometimes, probably a setting thing on you PC. I just followed the link and it does work to give a full screen.
> 
> Wait a minute. So you were able to take a picture, add a circle around it, and then post it here but a link was a no go? They way you did it was way harder than copying the link. Maybe we gotta get you a pair of horned rimmed glasses and nerdy you up a bit.
> 
> ...


It's only to small on the phone so maybe it's to big of a page for that, I didn't think that one page was it's own link. And for some reason I can't copy and paste links on my laptop only on the phone.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Ah OK. Phone functions are completely different and vary from one phone make to another. I also suck on phone tech so I won't even try.

Funny how a stroker thread became tech support. Sorry @Sick467


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

It's all about progress, one way or another!


----------



## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Sure you can be all scientific about it but isn't seeing the lines of the computer screen trippy, by the way Mr. scientist when I click on that link the page is cut off on the right so you're not seeing the other two chamber sizes...now where did I put my Blackberry and my Bad Company cassettes 😁


Am I the only one thinking South Park….. Mr. Scientist…. 😂


----------



## Luiz (Dec 21, 2007)

Here is my build. In addition I had the turbomatic replaced with a 5 speed tremec. Also got 2.5" duel x-pipe exhaust but apparently there was not enough space in the engine compartment to fit headers which I am not happy about. So I just have round port ram air exhaust manifolds. Maybe someone can custom make headers that will fit right if it matters. It chassis dyno'd at 364hp with max torque at 470. So probably around 430HP on the flywheel. I do get alot of compliments on how it sounds and you can hear it from a mile away. But damn thing still has the bad habit of leaking a little oil on the driveway.


----------



## BVIpirate77 (Jul 27, 2020)

Here's mine. I'm sure the intake manifold is restricting airflow quite a bit, so I'm willing to bet it'd make a little more power with a different intake/carb setup...but I wanted dual quads.🤷‍♂️

*Stroker Specs*

1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - 400
2 Crank Size Used – 4.250” Eagle
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) – Butler/Ross 461
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.155"
5 Final Deck Height – Standard Deck Height
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) – Flat Top, Ross (-8cc)
7 Compression Ratio (Static) – 10.11:1
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - ???
9 Heads (Make & Model) – Edelbrock D-Port Aluminum #61579
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.66" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 87cc
12 Head gasket thickness - .039” (Fel-Pro #1016)
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - Yes
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - No
15 Intake (Make & Model) – Edelbrock P65 Dual Quad #5450
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - Headers
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) – Doug’s D567 Ceramic Coated
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) – Edelbrock 500cfm AVS2 Carburetors (#1903 & #1904)
19 Cam (Make & Model) – COMP Xtreme Energy XR276HR Hyd Roller #51-423-11
20 Cam Specs - Lift: .502"/.510" | Duration: 276°/282° | LSA: 110° | RPM Range: 1800-5600
21 Rocker Ratio – 1.65
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) - Roller
23 Rocker (Make & Model) – COMP Ultra Gold Arc #19061
24 Push Rod Length – 9.300” (Smith Bros 2-Piece, Oil Restricted, 5/16”)
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power – N/A
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power – 434.1 HP / 531.8 FT/LBS Torque
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires – N/A
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Hyd Roller
29 Lifter (Make & Model) – Hy-Lift Johnson #HYL-2347
30 Ignition: - MSD Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor #8528







*


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Ebartone said:


> Am I the only one thinking South Park….. Mr. Scientist…. 😂


It was kind of an inside joke, I think. Baaad knows that I am the resident nerdy guy on here and likes to remind me of such sometimes. It's all good.

And wasn't that Mr Hat?


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I added the following data points to the list in the OP. If those of you who have listed your builds can add these...it would be great.

*31 Fuel Octane - ???
32 How do you get to that octane (91, 93, + additive w/brand, race fuel mix, etc) - ???*


----------



## Machinest-guy (Jul 19, 2019)

Good morning. I'm starting out on a stroked Pontiac 389 build for my '65 Convertible. I've been prowling the forums here for ideas and so on. So this thread is spot on for research. Thank you to the participants. 
My objective was to retain my date code correct OEM block and maintain a period correct look of an engine which could have been assembled in the early 70's when these cars were easily obtainable and hot rodded, but add modern internal technology to improve output. Motivation to do this now comes from discovery that my stock crank is cracked on several rod journals and the otherwise well running engine had become contaminated with grit when doing a carburetor swap / valley pan PCV grommet oil leak repair. I took the engine apart for cleaning after it was removed to install reproduction cast iron headers which led to magniflux inspection of the crank. 

Finding the crank cracked led me to toss my rods, pistons, rings, and main bearing caps in the trash. In my opinion all were components which might have sustained historic damage because the crank had apparently been overloaded to failure by years of racing, high speed touring, and substandard (modern) fuel; despite those parts passing magniflux and dye glow inspection now. Because of modern oil issues causing accelerated flat tappet cam wear I've led myself into wanting a roller cam conversion but feel a few of my tappet bores may be quite thin to stand increased side loading. I've been aware through conversations with Ed Iskenderian back in the early 70's of Micky Thompson's efforts to buttress Pontiac tappet bore areas with filler plates and epoxy since the late 1960's, so implementing this sort of modification path became indicated. As I added up the costs associated with reinforcement of my block with 4 bolt caps, hard block cylinder filler, tappet area buttress plates, and various "normal" race engine machine work of square decking, etc to withstand increased operating forces, an aftermarket block became a more cost effective solution. 

However that contradicted my initial goal of maintaining vintage hot rod period correctness. This realization is leading me to build two stroker engines. First the period correct engine to run on the street messing around, then next an all aluminum light weight engine to run more aggressively, perhaps in track day events. This decision has made head and cam selection much easier. It has also simplified decisions about porting and piston design. So this post will slant towards the first engine, an engine which would have been possible to build in the early 70's with externally visible parts one could have had made or purchased back then. 

This path led clearly to Butler and Ames and their subcontractor vendors, but also includes various other companies making specialized internal parts or providing specialized processes.



1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - retain 1965 389 cid block but upgrade with Milodon 4 bolt caps, block filler, Mega Brace from Butler, bored, decked and so on.
2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - I went to SCAT for an AERA engine conference and talked to Tom Leib about cranks for Pontiac engines. He said there is no downside to using the largest stroke he makes (and provides to Butler) with rods and so on. I ordered a lightweight Pro II 4.500 inch stroke crank. 
3 Stroker Kit Used The "kit" is coming from SCAT. Pro II I-beam rods at 6.700 inches. Clevite H series bearings. 
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.120 = 480 CID
5 Final Deck Height - 10.222 inches
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - KB 4032 Pistons to suit combustion chamber of Pontiac "670" head. 38cc dish, Gold thermal coating, and a Teflon skirt coating will be applied. Rings are Total seal gapless.
7 Compression Ratio (Static) - 9.2 to 1
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - cannot calculate exactly until the camshaft is designed and then installed. 
9 Heads (Make & Model) OEM Pontiac "670" castings fully ported and air flow balanced. Heat riser bowls blocked.
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.77" + .100" longer stems. exhaust w/hard inserts for unleaded gas conversion and bronze guides. Stud upgrade for roller rockers, fully thermal barrier coated by CALICO COATINGS.
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) -  73cc
12 Head gasket thickness - .040 
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - Yes. 
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - Yes
15 Intake (Make & Model) - Using '65 OEM tripower manifold EXTRUDE HONE process applied to maximize plenum area and port match to FEL PRO gasket size 1/4 " thermal blocks with gaskets under carbs. .
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - Reproduction cast iron from RAM AIR Reproductions. 2 1/2 inch to 3 " head pipes with O2 bungs and back pressure measurement taps added. 
17 Exhaust system - 3" oval pipe to X oval style crossover from SPINTECH to 15" x 10" x 5" box mufflers. Front style in/out to side discharge ahead of rear tires. Entire system is thermal barrier coated by SWAIN in their "White Lightening" compound. Head pipe to X = 44 inches. 
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) - OEM correct tri power with OEM RAM AIR conversion added. Jetting reworked substantially.
19 Cam (Make & Model) - Custom cam ground by Dema ELGIN CAMS mutually designed from air flow and specific engine design parameters. 
20 Cam Specs - 
21 Rocker Ratio - 1.6 to one projected to be used. 
22 Rocker Type  steel roller 
23 Rocker (Make & Model) - CROWER 73624 - 16
24 Push Rod Length - unknown until engine is trial assembled and fit. Will come custom from SMITH BROTHERS in Oregon. 
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - 500
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power - 
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires - 
28 Lifter Type - Mechanical roller
29 Lifter (Make & Model) -  ISKY RED ZONE with upgrade bushings.
30 Ignition: - OEM distributor with PETRONIX upgrade.( for now )
31 Fuel - proposed 91 Octane
32 - Availability of fuel I buy race gas at the track when I need anything higher than 91. Comments from Lake Speed jr a month ago mentioned +/- 3 octane points is typical for pump gas today and it is never on the high side. Verified by dyno testing on their calibration mule engines. Also modern gas degrades from sunlight exposure within a couple of days time. Use steel cans only. So the 91 you buy is likely 88ish and maybe causing issues....... like cracked cranks..... *


Custom made PCV system based off a photo of dealer installed RAM AIR option and trade practices of implemented conversions meeting California Air Resources board rules in early 70's. 
Belts and front pulleys are all OEM. 
1965 GTO convertible. 
Rear tire size is P275 x 60 R 15 by BF Goodrich on OEM Corvette 8 inch Rally rims. The car has been lowered slightly. I replaced the rear axle assembly with a unit from Currie narrowed 2 inches from stock to eliminate tire rubbing with OEM zero offset 8 inch Corvette Rally rims when running a GM 12 bolt Chevelle axle. I had Wheel Vintique make a set of look-a-like Rally wheels with 1-1/4 inch negative offset in the1990's that helped a lot to minimize rubbing when running L50 x 15 BFG tires (now long obsolete). But Wheel Vintique were unable to provide a 5th (spare tire) rim in the 2020's after a wait of over a year and a half for its production. I canceled that order after driving down there for a phyical plant inspection to confirm I'd been lied to about my rims being stuck in their powder coating department (for 8 months) when they had not even been welded up. I instead had an axle built so I could run the easily available Corvette zero offset 8" rim which also should solve a number of potential issues related to breaking GM 12 bolt axles vs the aluminum NASCAR Ford style center section with STRANGE ENGINEERING axles built for my Currie axle. I'm not a drag racer, and have no idea how this tire will hook up with a more powerful engine. The rear suspension is boxed and has a sway bar. OEM retrofit frame braces have been installed. My shock mounts are upgraded but have essentially OEM geometry. I'm open to comments about how others have set up rear suspensions for drag racing vs. road racing (which I am fully familiar with). Front tire size is P255 x 60 R 15 on OEM spindles with a 4 wheel power disc brake conversion.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Machinest-guy said:


> Good morning. I'm starting out on a stroked Pontiac 389 build for my '65 Convertible. I've been prowling the forums here for ideas and so on. So this thread is spot on for research. Thank you to the participants.
> My objective was to retain my date code correct OEM block and maintain a period correct look of an engine which could have been assembled in the early 70's when these cars were easily obtainable and hot rodded, but add modern internal technology to improve output. Motivation to do this now comes from discovery that my stock crank is cracked on several rod journals and the otherwise well running engine had become contaminated with grit when doing a carburetor swap / valley pan PCV grommet oil leak repair. I took the engine apart for cleaning after it was removed to install reproduction cast iron headers which led to magniflux inspection of the crank.
> 
> Finding the crank cracked led me to toss my rods, pistons, rings, and main bearing caps in the trash. In my opinion all were components which might have sustained historic damage because the crank had apparently been overloaded to failure by years of racing, high speed touring, and substandard (modern) fuel; despite those parts passing magniflux and dye glow inspection now. Because of modern oil issues causing accelerated flat tappet cam wear I've led myself into wanting a roller cam conversion but feel a few of my tappet bores may be quite thin to stand increased side loading. I've been aware through conversations with Ed Iskenderian back in the early 70's of Micky Thompson's efforts to buttress Pontiac tappet bore areas with filler plates and epoxy since the late 1960's, so implementing this sort of modification path became indicated. As I added up the costs associated with reinforcement of my block with 4 bolt caps, hard block cylinder filler, tappet area buttress plates, and various "normal" race engine machine work of square decking, etc to withstand increased operating forces, an aftermarket block became a more cost effective solution.
> ...


So no problems with that big of a tire on the front? My 215/70/15 are really close at the points now but I have 1" lowering springs with iron heads. I would be happy if I could fit 245/60 for some extra width but I don't think it's going to work and 235/60 get to short looking. My 215/70 are almost even maybe slightly below the opening trim and looks good.


----------



## Machinest-guy (Jul 19, 2019)

Ah, no problems now. I recall years ago I slightly modified the front wheel well opening to soften the "point" at the rear arch and roll the lip. If you can access the Pontiac Club "Legendary Lines" news letter there are photos of my car showing the tire / wheel well in the article written for their December 2021 issue. The car is lowered in the front also for Auto X use back in the day. I like how it sits so left it. I plan to replace the OEM spindles with, maybe, some taller Camaro or Corvette ones someday to improve the caster / camber curve..... someday.. I need to get a pair of engines built first. Thanks for asking. Ladd


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Machinest-guy said:


> Ah, no problems now. I recall years ago I slightly modified the front wheel well opening to soften the "point" at the rear arch and roll the lip. If you can access the Pontiac Club "Legendary Lines" news letter there are photos of my car showing the tire / wheel well in the article written for their December 2021 issue. The car is lowered in the front also for Auto X use back in the day. I like how it sits so left it. I plan to replace the OEM spindles with, maybe, some taller Camaro or Corvette ones someday to improve the caster / camber curve..... someday.. I need to get a pair of engines built first. Thanks for asking. Ladd


Ah that's your secret, I thought that sounded big up there 👍


----------



## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

1 OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - 1970 400 block YD
2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - Stroker 4.25" stroke
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) - Butler 467 4.181, -8cc
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.181
5 Final Deck Height - zero decked 10.223
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - butler /ross stroker kit -8cc
7 Compression Ratio (Static) - 10.7
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - 71 abdc 8.2
9 Heads (Make & Model) - edelbrock 61579 stock valves and spring with cc chamber and port work. Milled to achieve 82cc
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.66" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 82cc
12 Head gasket thickness - .038
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - yes
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - No
15 Intake (Make & Model) - Edelbrock 7156
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - ram air III
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) -
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) - 1970 qjet 750 recalibrated by Ken from everyday performance to work with this engine.
19 Cam (Make & Model) - crower 60243
20 Cam Specs - 284/290 228/235 112LSA degreed to 108 centerline 479/494
21 Rocker Ratio - 1.52
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) - comp cam pro magnum 1451-16 stamped steel roller tip. (Little noisy) zero lash half turn
23 Rocker (Make & Model) - 1451-16 1.52
24 Push Rod Length - 9.150 Butler 5/16", .116" Wall, 1pc Chromoly Pushrods by Smith Brothers
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - ? Night and day difference from the original YS 400
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power -
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires -
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Hyd flat tappet crower cam saver lifters
29 Lifter (Make & Model) - crower cam saver lifters
30 Ignition: - stock point type rebuilt and curved by Everyday Performance. 12 initial, advance starts at 800rpm returns to zero 750, 6, 1000rpm, 10 1200 rpm, 14 1600 rpm, 20 3000 rpm. 32 total 8 degree limit on vacuum advance.

I know it has more but the car is all stock original don't want to push the limit. Stock original 400 with a 2800 stall 3.55 gear, M/E wagner PVC, 17" vacuum Idle.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

@sameold01 I was hoping you were going to post on here. I know yours has been in the works for a while. Sounds like a very healthy build. Did you have Butler do the port work on the heads, a local shop, or did you tackle them yourself?


----------



## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

I was very lucky where I took my motor to have all the block machine work done. One guy there does head porting work on the side with a flow bench. He does lots of LS stuff. The guy said that the out of the box heads are usually in need of attention and bare heads are the best option. I am so glad I started buying stuff years ago for this project.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I have put everybody's data in a spreadsheet, but had to convert it to a pdf to upload to the thread. It is attached to the first post of this thread. I will update it as more builds are posted. If you want the Excel spreadsheet, PM me with your email address.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I have been doing some research to go along with my dreaming of the stroker engine build. I have estimated that I can buy a stroker engine kit that ranges from a 463 to a 490 cubic inches for $2400 to $3400. These cubic inches were generated by using their custom piston options, and an assumed 40-over bore. I used Butler's site to come to these conclusions since it's pretty easy to select the options and build a total price. I pretty much went with the middle of the road upgrades for options and found that the extra money you need to spend to get from the 463 to the 490 is about a thousand dollars...$37 per cubic inch. I am thinking that a 9 to 9.5:1 compression ratio should be my goal.

Here's a couple question for those of you who have built one of these engines...

*Given I have the extra thousand, why would I not build the larger 490 cu-in stroker engine?*

I intend to use the stock 4bbl intake, HO exhaust mani's, 670 heads - all port matched - and a Ram Air-like cam...if that makes a difference.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Nice work, thanks ! It shows the ignition for mine is the Blaster but I have the MSD R2R..no biggie. What is your main use for the car, are you shooting for a certain HP, or TQ number, do you have the drive line to support,??? Idk but you can build a pretty potent 461 and put the extra 1k into something else imo. Is 490 going to be that much more powerful than 461,463,467 idk?


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

*Baaad65* , I corrected the spreadsheet...thanks for the proof read. I wonder where the Blaster even came from? I have updated the file on the original post. Somebody else's data is probably wrong...hmmm?

My build is pretty much an open book. My goals are...

91-93 octane.
Street-able.
To stay around 1 horse power per cubic inch.
Rear Gear Ratio around the mid to low 3's, Maybe a 12 bolt for the strength.
Get traction, not smoke, so drag radials are a possibility, no tubbing.
Keep a very stock look to the engine (and car).

I will drive this car on sunny days to work and want to do it "fast"...lol


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sounds like a good plan 👌 I have a 12bolt 3:42 with a 2.99 first gear...giddy up. 275 drag radials and lift bars and still can't side step the clutch, around 530 lbs torque 😎


----------



## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

1 *OEM Block Size (ie 326, 389, 400, 455. etc) - 400
2 Crank Size Used (ie 400, 455, etc) - Cast Eagle 4.250 stroke, 3.00 mains
3 Stroker Kit Used (ie 461, 467, 471, etc) - 467
4 Final Bore Diameter - 4.181"
5 Final Deck Height - ???
6 Piston (Type, Make & Model) - Ross/Butler 4.181 x 1.295 CH (6.800 x 4.250 stroke) Flat Top Forged
7 Compression Ratio (Static) - 10.3
8 Compression Ratio (Dynamic) - ???
9 Heads (Make & Model) - Pontiac Iron 6X-4 with mild porting and multi angle valve work done locally
10 Head Valve Size (Intake & Exhaust) - 2.11" intake, 1.66" exhaust
11 Head Chamber Size (Actual in cc's) - 93.74
12 Head gasket thickness - .040
13 Intake to Head Port Matched? - No
14 Head to Exhaust Port Matched? - No
15 Intake (Make & Model) - Edelbrock P65 dual plane dual four barrel carburetors
16 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers - RARE oversized ram air reproductions
17 Exhaust Manifolds or Headers (Make & Model) - 64-67 2.5" outlet RA Manifolds, ceramic coated
18 Carburetor (Make & Model) - Edelbrock 1405 and 1406 600CFM carburetors with 1:1 linkage
19 Cam (Make & Model) - Butler/Comp Cams Extreme Energy XE 274 HFT
20 Cam Specs - 274/286, 230/236, .488/.491, 110 (If I ever change, I may try the 068 grind)
21 Rocker Ratio - 1.52
22 Rocker Type (Stamped or Roller) - Stamped with roller tip
23 Rocker (Make & Model) - Comp Cams Magnum Roller tip
24 Push Rod Length - 9.130
25 Estimated Flywheel Horse Power - ???
26 Dyno'd Flywheel Horse Power - ???
27 Dyno'd Horse Power at the rear tires - I have no idea but my 400s never had near this much torque!
28 Lifter Type (Solid, Hydraulic Tappet, or Roller) - Hyd Flat Tappet
29 Lifter (Make & Model) - Comp Cams standard Pontiac
30 Ignition: - Pertronix Flame Thrower, MSD 6AL with rev limiter and remote timing control
31 Fuel Octane - 95 to 100? Depends if I want to run with timing set at 16 or 18. 18 runs better and cooler.
32 How do you get to that octane (91, 93, + additive w/brand, race fuel mix, etc) -93 plus Octane Supreme. I may be changing to VP Octanium for a variety of reasons (cost, availability, toxicity).*


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Sick467 said:


> I have been doing some research to go along with my dreaming of the stroker engine build. I have estimated that I can buy a stroker engine kit that ranges from a 463 to a 490 cubic inches for $2400 to $3400. These cubic inches were generated by using their custom piston options, and an assumed 40-over bore. I used Butler's site to come to these conclusions since it's pretty easy to select the options and build a total price. I pretty much went with the middle of the road upgrades for options and found that the extra money you need to spend to get from the 463 to the 490 is about a thousand dollars...$37 per cubic inch. I am thinking that a 9 to 9.5:1 compression ratio should be my goal.
> 
> Here's a couple question for those of you who have built one of these engines...
> 
> ...


Sorry late to the party here. I'm thinking one thing you would want to find out is if you would need to clearance the block to go with a 490 ci build. With what your intended use is, you may just be making a car that's already going to be bad on gas even worse. A 461/467 build is going to be blisteringly fast in a street car.


----------



## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

michaelfind said:


> ...


Michael, I'll get your stats put in the spreadsheet when I get my laptop replaced in about a month. I refused to work that hard on my 17 year old desktop...it's tooooo slow. Thanks for posting your info!



Jared said:


> Sorry late to the party here. I'm thinking one thing you would want to find out is if you would need to clearance the block to go with a 490 ci build. With what your intended use is, you may just be making a car that's already going to be bad on gas even worse. A 461/467 build is going to be blisteringly fast in a street car.


I have 670 heads and intend to use them to keep the casting numbers and to save from spending more money. What research I have done tells me that the 461/467 stroker kits using the 670 heads tend to have the CR upwards around 10:1 or more, while I have seen a 490 kit that drops it down to the 9's with the 670 heads. My somewhat inexperienced theory is that I could go with more cubes to get the power back from dropping the CR. I think I will end up with more power with the 490 kit & a lower compression ratio, when compared to the lesser cubes, but higher CR...but not by a whole lot. This keeps me from having to drive to the airport for fuel or buying & mixing octane booster.

With the 490 kit idea, I am still concerned about what restrictions I would observe by using the original intake and 3" HO exhaust manifolds (both poor-man port matched). 490 cubes may want more air flow, but that lack of air flow may even act as insurance that the engine will not wrap up too quick and "pop". I'm OK with throttling the engine this way so long as it can be tuned to run well with these parts. Once again, a strong stock appearance is part of my intentions along with the budget savings.

I will have to call Butler and talk about clearance needs, but I'm ok with some clearance mods. 

I'm not too concerned with gas mileage and "blistering fast" is part of my goals.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Sick467 said:


> Michael, I'll get your stats put in the spreadsheet when I get my laptop replaced in about a month. I refused to work that hard on my 17 year old desktop...it's tooooo slow. Thanks for posting your info!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you have this backwards. The larger cube engine will push the compression ratio even higher.



https://butlerperformance.com/n-12872-compression-calculator.html


----------

