# Wheel spacers to fix rubbing issue?



## Freebs (Sep 6, 2008)

Well I have been doing some reading on every issue of the GTO lately as I am looking to pick one up here soon (since you can finally get them here in Canada now).
I am seeing this tire rubbing on the rear is a pretty big issue and I am sure it’s been done already but could you not just throw on 1/8” or 1/4” spacers? Depending on how far out you need to go. I couldn’t find anything on it when I searched the topic on here.
And to even be on the safe side you could install some ARP wheel studs that are X amount longer (it would all depend on how thick of a spacer you go with) 
I just got to thinking about this the other day when I was installing some that I had my buddy custom make for my dad’s GNX and he had just found out the correct threads and searched ARPs catalog for the right length studs.
This way you get that slightly wider track (not that you are going to notice) and you won’t have to worry about it rubbing at all.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

On the rear, the rubbing is on the outside of the tire, on the outer fender well.
You need to move the tire inward. Only rims with more offset, around +55mm
on a 9 in. rim and +50mm on a 9.5 in. rim, will stop the rubbing.

Larry


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## Freebs (Sep 6, 2008)

AlaGreyGoat said:


> On the rear, the rubbing is on the outside of the tire, on the outer fender well.
> You need to move the tire inward. Only rims with more offset, around +55mm
> on a 9 in. rim and +50mm on a 9.5 in. rim, will stop the rubbing.
> 
> Larry


I always thought it was rubbing on the struts that was the issue. Well in that case scratch the spacer idea


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Rubbing in the front is the strut issue, rubbing in the rear is a fender clearance issue.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Freebs said:


> I always thought it was rubbing on the struts that was the issue. Well in that case scratch the spacer idea


The #1 issue with the rub is the bushing becoming "squashed," and or worn. As stated in previous posts...... Take a #2 pencil and place it between the tire and strut. If it passes through with no resistance you are ok. If there is resistance, the standard fix is to adjust the negative camber. The strut is tilted towards the engine, as it begins to tilt vertical then towards the tire, the adjusting of the negative camber while being in spec for aligning will not correct the problem. The strut will continue to tilt away from the engine. If the tech continues to adjust the camber, eventually the alignment will run out of its tolerances and the strut will have to be dealt with. 

For peace of mind for fixing this.. you can put a smaller dia. tire on the front. This will increase the distance. The smaller dia tire will suffice, but if the strut is moving because it is out of whack, eventually it will need dealt with.

If there is a rubbing problem, have the tech inspect the bushing. A major problem coming from factory was in the shipping process. It was discovered some cars front ends were over tightened squashing the bushing. 

A spacer would not be the answer to this problem.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

:agree A spacer would work but its just a bandaid to a problem thats still going to be there. Pedders Suspension has a tire rub package that will cure your problem. One of their set ups come with a spacer to move the front wheels out. You can get with our site sponsor for more detalis or goto Pedders website.


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## [email protected] (Jun 9, 2008)

Spacers are not needed on stock rims, unless you are trying to gain extra camber in the front.

If you do however need clearance, you can safely use a billet spacer of 5-6mm with the stock studs, do not use a cheap spacer as you may have a wheel loosen up.

If you go to a coil over you will need a spacer, but I typically do not recommend the use of spacers


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

I installed 255/45/17's on the stock rims, and they rubbed the struts on the front.
I made some 5mm spacers to fix the problem. With the 5mm spacers installed,
the studs are just barely long enough to get full thread on the nuts. Anything thicker
than 5mm would require longer studs.
Also, I would recommend longer ARP studs with any spacers.

Larry


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## fullarmor2 (Mar 1, 2006)

I just put some new wheels on and tires and I had a problem with the rear tires rubbing against the 1/4 panel lip when ever I hit a sizable bump or accelerate hard. The problem is that the springs on these cars are way to cushiony! I went to Orieleys auto store and got some inserts which wedge in the springs and it solved the problem. It raised my rear at least an inch! No more rubbing! And my rear end feels a lot better. It doesn't bounce up and down anymore and is stiffer. But not too stiff. But just right. And when I accelerate hard, my rear end doesn't go down the way it use to. I just hope this isn't just a "band aid" fix to my problem. As I understand that these spacers can come out on their own. Although I would imagine that I would have to hit one hell of a bump for that to happen, so I'm not worried about it. My other option was to order new springs, which is probably what I'll end up having to do. For now I'm going to see if this works. Wish me luck my friends.


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## [email protected] (Jun 9, 2008)

You do not want to continue to drive the car with those, they will make the springs fail even more.

Replacement springs are in the 233 range, and you won't have the failure of the spring to worry about.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

I totally agree with Rob.
I installed 295 19s on the rear of my 05 and drag bags to help with the
rubbing. They worked OK, but felt "spongy" on the road. I installed
Pedders 5/16" raised drag springs, and they rode great.
I also have Hotchkis sway bars set in the medium positions.

Larry


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## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*tires rubbing*

I'm having the same rubbing problem with the rear tires 275/30R19.
Bought it from the dealer in 2005 brand new off the lot. What do you think is it the dealers fault I had a blow out from the tires rubbing? Do you think they should be liable for the new tires?: 

anyones input would help.
Michele


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I'm having the same rubbing problem with the rear tires 275/30R19.
> Bought it from the dealer in 2005 brand new off the lot. What do you think is it the dealers fault I had a blow out from the tires rubbing? Do you think they should be liable for the new tires?:
> 
> anyones input would help.
> Michele


seeing as they are not an approved tire size for the car it would be questionable. i was reading thru this thread and have to comment that it's a combination of tire size, tire brand, cradle alignment, wheel offset, wheel width and wheel diamter that determine what you can get away with. on stock wheels 245 is the biggest tire with most brands. Nitto 275s can sometimes work as altho they have that nice big number they are a narrow tire. BFGs run wide. mostly to get bigger tires on you need the right offset and a wider rim to pull the tire in toward the center more as well as fender lip rolling or cutting. i have 3/4" drop springs with Firestone 285s on 9" wide wheels and rolled fenders and can bury the tire all the way up into the wheel well with no rubbing.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

fullarmor2 said:


> I just put some new wheels on and tires and I had a problem with the rear tires rubbing against the 1/4 panel lip when ever I hit a sizable bump or accelerate hard. The problem is that the springs on these cars are way to cushiony! I went to Orieleys auto store and got some inserts which wedge in the springs and it solved the problem. It raised my rear at least an inch! No more rubbing! And my rear end feels a lot better. It doesn't bounce up and down anymore and is stiffer. But not too stiff. But just right. And when I accelerate hard, my rear end doesn't go down the way it use to. I just hope this isn't just a "band aid" fix to my problem. As I understand that these spacers can come out on their own. Although I would imagine that I would have to hit one hell of a bump for that to happen, so I'm not worried about it. My other option was to order new springs, which is probably what I'll end up having to do. For now I'm going to see if this works. Wish me luck my friends.



I have the same problem as you. Whats the name and how much did it cost


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

EEZ GOAT said:


> I have the same problem as you. Whats the name and how much did it cost


like Rob said i wouldn't use spacers in the springs. it will make the weak sauce springs go to ruin even quicker. if you have rubbing you need to correct that. you should be able to bottom out without rubbing.


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## dms (Jun 27, 2005)

svede1212 said:


> like Rob said i wouldn't use spacers in the springs. it will make the weak sauce springs go to ruin even quicker. if you have rubbing you need to correct that. you should be able to bottom out without rubbing.


I aggree

mike
dms


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*Hub Rub !!!*

My 05 and most 06s come with 18 inch wheels. Hey now who doesn't like a nice tall wheel? with low profile tires.

Problems is that someone forgot to measure the hubs .. and strut space before sending these cars to dealers ... just a slight engineering mistake ... AKA made in Australia/America ...

I put in shorty headers .. cat-less mid pipes Magnaflow exhaust ... KnN intake, lower temperture guage and Diablo Preditor tune. Which was all well and nice.

Then one night when it had just rained a little I set out on the road .. tapping the excellarator .. with some rice burner that was in the next lane. Nothing dramatic ... but on a light tap in third gear my car spun out.

Luckly it slid sideways for a while and then off I went until the car was stopped parallel by the curb. My wheel was bent but I could drive it home .. next day I took into get the wheels aligned and when they jacked up the car .. the "tire guy" showed me that my back tires where bald after only 500 miles ??? and you could see the steel belts nice and shiny in the back ... in the front the tires Bridgstone .. Runflats (that come with the car had wear on the inside, but the back tires where bald.

After some contiplation and reading ... the answer was clear ... when I added horse power to my ride on take offs my car would learch back and the hub would act like a Flintstone-mobile disk brake ... and eat the rubber right off the tire. I suspects that lots of these Ausie goats with the 18 inch wheels end up eating a telephone pole or tree. I was just very lucky.

To make a long story short ... there was not much on the web ... except an article ... on how the GTO was built unsafe ... and the boards where full of posts of fixes from people who where selling aftermarket springs.

I called around locally ... Miami ... to places that sell wheels ... and got a kid who drag races his car at a local track ... old juiced up Mustang. He said put some spring spacers in.

That is exactly what I did .. put in two sets polyurithane and rubber ... in the back which gave me more that and inch clearance and stiffened the back end up. I got these at Autozone or some other general car parts place ... but they WORKED !!!

Now I am running 275..by 35.. 18" in the back and 245 ..by 40 in the front. Tires in the front are Falkens and the big rubber in the back are NON-run flat Bridgestones in the back on 18 by 9.5 inch rims. I suffer some slight strut rub in the front on the side of the tires ... but nothing like had before and running
35's in the back and 40's in the front levels out the car.

I do believe this is the solution ... however ... I want to move up from the cheap Autozone spacers and slip in spring spacers which are the donut type polyurithane spacers and I want to put some in the front also.

For "normal" driving what I have works fine .. however at speeds over 120 mph and up ...... say when I am comming onto the express way  I feel a vibration which becomes annoying at around 140 mph. Yea you know you have juiced it up on enterance ramps when there is no traffic ... there can be no fuzz ... on enterance ramps? ... and I slow way down before merging with traffic.

To cut this even shorter ... what I am interested in is donut shapped spring spacers that will fit 05-06 GTO and ones that safe to use in the front?
There are a variatey of types ... on E-bay ... but what fits my car? What spring spacers fit the GTO? If you know can you provide a picture and a link? I may end up putting something ment for a Jeep back there ... which I would like to avoid ... I bet someone has found something that works .. oh and which does not involve Pedders .. 








Freebs said:


> Well I have been doing some reading on every issue of the GTO lately as I am looking to pick one up here soon (since you can finally get them here in Canada now).
> I am seeing this tire rubbing on the rear is a pretty big issue and I am sure it’s been done already but could you not just throw on 1/8” or 1/4” spacers? Depending on how far out you need to go. I couldn’t find anything on it when I searched the topic on here.
> And to even be on the safe side you could install some ARP wheel studs that are X amount longer (it would all depend on how thick of a spacer you go with)
> I just got to thinking about this the other day when I was installing some that I had my buddy custom make for my dad’s GNX and he had just found out the correct threads and searched ARPs catalog for the right length studs.
> This way you get that slightly wider track (not that you are going to notice) and you won’t have to worry about it rubbing at all.


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*Correct Spring Spacers ...*

I have a simple question ... has anyone found doughnut shaped spring spacers that fit the back springs on 0-5 .. 0-6 GTO? Also are there any that fit and are
SAFE!?! for the front.

Right now I am running 275/35/18 in the back with a combo of polyurethane and rubber spacers and I get a steady even ride .. I have 245-40-18 Falkens in the front that show a tad of strut rub on the inside ... the difference in height is offset by the the taller tires in the front and the car handles fine .. no wheel hop ... so spacers seems to work.

Again .. I am not asking for opinions or advice ... I would like a simple straight forward answer regarding quality spring spacers that fit these cars ... both in the back and front? If you don't know do not respond to this post if you do please provide a link, pictures or description of the spacers?
****
As and answer to this post ... the solution is SUPERGLUE !!! .... the insert spring spacers tend to just fall out when your car goes in for an oil change for example .. the guy changing the oil might just chuck it in the trash ... so obviously yes it is a "solution and a band aid" we need the doughnut shaped ones ... I just have no idea what fits these mickey mouse springs??
By the way .... Pedders makes stronger stiffer springs but not bigger or longer springs ... only thing you can buy is shorter springs ... only spring spacers will bump the height of your spring with the extra bonus of giving you a harmonic double spring effect ... making your springs stiffer/ stronger. Ok I know they will wear out quicker .. lol .. whatever ... 

I am going to inquire at places that put on the 22 inch wheels for the ghetto-mobile look they might know what works ..... 

****Quote:
Originally Posted by fullarmor2 View Post
I just put some new wheels on and tires and I had a problem with the rear tires rubbing against the 1/4 panel lip when ever I hit a sizable bump or accelerate hard. The problem is that the springs on these cars are way to cushiony! I went to Orieleys auto store and got some inserts which wedge in the springs and it solved the problem. It raised my rear at least an inch! No more rubbing! And my rear end feels a lot better. It doesn't bounce up and down anymore and is stiffer. But not too stiff. But just right. And when I accelerate hard, my rear end doesn't go down the way it use to. I just hope this isn't just a "band aid" fix to my problem. As I understand that these spacers can come out on their own. Although I would imagine that I would have to hit one hell of a bump for that to happen, so I'm not worried about it. My other option was to order new springs, which is probably what I'll end up having to do. For now I'm going to see if this works. Wish me luck


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*Sue him !!!*



[email protected] said:


> I'm having the same rubbing problem with the rear tires 275/30R19.
> Bought it from the dealer in 2005 brand new off the lot. What do you think is it the dealers fault I had a blow out from the tires rubbing? Do you think they should be liable for the new tires?:
> 
> anyones input would help.
> Michele


Fist off be glad you are around to write the post .... the edge of the hub could have sawed your tire and you could have crashed and burned. Didn't you notice that your 275 tire sicks out about and inch from the hub? Most people roll the fender ... which I think is BS, because it gives you some chamber space but not really enough to be safe.

By the way ... the dealer stuck those wheels on ... as 275/30R19 are not OEM. Sound pretty much like he did not know or care. I think you can get him to put in the Pedders at his expense and then you will still need to either use spring spacers or roll the fender or both ... I would ask them to roll the fender for free .... and put in the pedders for free. He will if you have had the car less than three years 36K miles, he may not if you have passed those. So have the work done ... and sue him in small claims ...


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*No Interest In Hub Rub Issue On Our Death-mobiles?*

Maybe those who have not spent five grand on the "pedder's solution" .. or put some spring spacers in .... have their GTO's parked at some junk yard somewhere .. where it is being parted out on E-Bay .....

I figure that is why there is little interest in this topic. Those who did not know about these problems ... crashed and burned ... those who did traded in their death-mobiles ... and the brave few have WHEEL spacers and pedders big bad springs in front and pedders drag springs in back. Or like me ... they have a band aid set of insert spring spacers in the back and are just waiting for the struts to rip open the tires in the front.....

This surely will become a collector's car ... the GTO ... sooner than later ... as those who bought and drive these ticking time bombs are sure to crash them without modification !!!

Maybe when Detroit gets $50 billion from Uncle Obama ... they can figure out how to put wheels on the death traps they call cars ....

If this post does not raise a flame it just means ... no one really cares anymore ...


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## dms (Jun 27, 2005)

Strut rub is not totally a function of alignment. It is also a function of excess movement and migration of the strut bushings. If the strut bushing cannot support the strut shaft, then the shaft can go in-out in respect to the engine, which will also cause some sidewall flux. if the tire is going in and the strut is going out, then the strut can be kissed by the tire. I have documented a strut rub issue with a GTO with at least 1/2 inch clearance and a severally worn strut bushing. I also strongly recommend when trying to stabilize the front end, to also eliminate the garbage radius rod busings. They allow a very serious amount of movement with caster and toe.

Now for the question on spring spacer, Pedders makes 2 styles:
EP386/10	GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 10 to 13mm increase $19.80 
EP386/6	GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 6 to 9mm increase $16.12 

You can put one under the top and bottom rubber insolators. Therefore 2 per spring. The 6mm spacer will change ride height from 6 to 9mm, and the 10mm spacer will change the height between 10-13mm. 

Pedders does not make a spring spacer for the fronts.

As a word of caution, many have used these spacers to resolve OE spring sag and in fact work well to return the rears to proper desired heightl However they do not repair the serious loss in OE spring rates as a result of the shipping damage

mike
dms


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

NiceShyGuy said:


> Maybe those who have not spent five grand on the "pedder's solution" .. or put some spring spacers in .... have their GTO's parked at some junk yard somewhere .. where it is being parted out on E-Bay .....
> 
> I figure that is why there is little interest in this topic. Those who did not know about these problems ... crashed and burned ... those who did traded in their death-mobiles ... and the brave few have WHEEL spacers and pedders big bad springs in front and pedders drag springs in back. Or like me ... they have a band aid set of insert spring spacers in the back and are just waiting for the struts to rip open the tires in the front.....
> 
> ...


it seriously doesn't require $5,000 to fix strut rub. strut mounts, correct tires and alignment will take care of it. i believe the word hyperbole comes into play in this thead


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## teamgs (Dec 29, 2005)

I have an '05 with the stock 18" wheels, and have gone through the stock 235/40/18's as well as 2 different brands of 245/40/18's, and have had no rubbing issues with any of them.

Regards,

Gary


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*9 second GTO ....*

Great a Pedder's Peddler with a $19.80 solution? I will have to check that out.

Here is a really cool article .. 9 second GTO ... yea the engineers where high on wacky weed when they designed the suspension ... but hey ... once fixed these new goats can be turned into leopards and eat a Viper for lunch ....

Here is something cool for you take a look at.... 9 second GTO ...

9 second gto

Two guys and a "old wooden baseball bat" ... "two guys in the trunk and one guy driving" ... ha ha .. what we lack in know how and engineering skill we make up for in enthusiasm !!!! 

"Our first mods consisted of a Precision Industries 2600 stall Vigilante torque converter and a set of BF Goodrich P275/40R17 Drag Radials. The Drag radials required us to roll the rear fender lips in order for them to fit. It sounds crude but this was done with an old wooden baseball bat, two guys in the trunk and one guy driving. After about an hour we had another 1/2" of tire clearance. We also installed a high flow Unifilter induction kit (shown to the right on a Monaro) and then headed back to the track."




dms said:


> Strut rub is not totally a function of alignment. It is also a function of excess movement and migration of the strut bushings. If the strut bushing cannot support the strut shaft, then the shaft can go in-out in respect to the engine, which will also cause some sidewall flux. if the tire is going in and the strut is going out, then the strut can be kissed by the tire. I have documented a strut rub issue with a GTO with at least 1/2 inch clearance and a severally worn strut bushing. I also strongly recommend when trying to stabilize the front end, to also eliminate the garbage radius rod busings. They allow a very serious amount of movement with caster and toe.
> 
> Now for the question on spring spacer, Pedders makes 2 styles:
> EP386/10	GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 10 to 13mm increase $19.80
> ...


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*your grandmothers Oldsmobile !!!*



teamgs said:


> I have an '05 with the stock 18" wheels, and have gone through the stock 235/40/18's as well as 2 different brands of 245/40/18's, and have had no rubbing issues with any of them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gary


Gary ... put about $3 K into improving hp and preformance of your goat ... and after you do that see how long your back tires keep their rubber and how long it takes for them to lock up in the hub when you put the peddle to the metal !!! My tires where fine until I put $$$ into the preformace. 

I hear Hyndai gives you 100,000 mile 30 year warrentee on their little rice burners and they will take it back if you lose your job flippen burgers .... If you get serious about having a need for speed ... the mikey mouse suspension has got to go . 

The GTO is not your grandmothers Oldsmobile .. but I bet her ride had stronger springs, and granny didn't have to monkey with the suspension just so she would not crash and burn ...


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

teamgs said:


> I have an '05 with the stock 18" wheels, and have gone through the stock 235/40/18's as well as 2 different brands of 245/40/18's, and have had no rubbing issues with any of them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gary


three sets of tires? how many miles do you have on it? the issues that cause strut rub can cause excessive tire wear in addition to or in place of the rub. the front radius rod bushings contribute to wear as well even if the static alignment is dead on. i replaced my front tires at 34,000 but could have easily gone another 10,000. they got changed with the backs so they all matched brand. i drive pretty aggressively too


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*Back side tire blow out .... thread ....*



svede1212 said:


> three sets of tires? how many miles do you have on it? the issues that cause strut rub can cause excessive tire wear in addition to or in place of the rub. the front radius rod bushings contribute to wear as well even if the static alignment is dead on. i replaced my front tires at 34,000 but could have easily gone another 10,000. they got changed with the backs so they all matched brand. i drive pretty aggressively too


Gary ... just has to hit a wall to figure out there is a problem?

Check out this link ... mainly for the 0-4 that came with 17 inch wheels ...

PONTIAC GTO Comments and Complaints - Vehicle Safety Comments and Complaints for PONTIAC GTO

This topic is not new ... I stole this from "The Judge"

The strut rub problem has been going around now for 3 years. If the dealer has not heard anything of this they are either being less than honest, or have not worked on any GTO's. Tell them about it and If they say you are full of BS show them this article.....
Automaker Turns Over Records About GTOs Defects - News Story - WEWS Cleveland

Further here is a link of a class action lawsuit started by people who have been affected.
http://www.pontiacgtoclassaction.com...contact_us.php

If they say they had no idea, they are in denial.

The Strut rub evidence will be on the INSIDE circumference of the tire. It will have a grove cut into the rubber. The wear marks ON THE strut will be evident as the paint will be burnished off. NO hiding it. Makes no matter what the tread life is."

I am borrowing from another thread ... not sure if it is from this board ... however you can find the above ... and interestingly enough the blow-outs complained of are REAR tire blow outs ... so yes Gary ... it does happen and it might happen to you ... wonder why there is no recall or at least why GM does not pay for the "pedder's solution" .... before my warrantee is up I will have a nice long talk with the people at the dealership where I bought my car. Here is the tread there are lots more like it ... just Google ... 

http://www.gtoforum.com/f7/back-right-side-tire-blew-out-13862/


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## teamgs (Dec 29, 2005)

Sorry, I lost track of this thread. I don't doubt that extra HP might cause more squat, and possibly rubbing. 

I also seem to recall that the majority of strut rub issues and complaints were from '04 owners with the 17" wheels.

I have around 80K miles on mine, and the tire wear is always very even, so my alignment should be fine.

The tone of some of the replies to my post suggests that it may have been misinterpreted. I was not trying to slight anyone, or diminish the issues they were/are having. I just was stating my lack of strut rub issues with my relatively high mileage GTO as a point of reference.

Regards,

Gary


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*Pedders Peddler ...*



dms said:


> Strut rub is not totally a function of alignment. It is also a function of excess movement and migration of the strut bushings. If the strut bushing cannot support the strut shaft, then the shaft can go in-out in respect to the engine, which will also cause some sidewall flux. if the tire is going in and the strut is going out, then the strut can be kissed by the tire. I have documented a strut rub issue with a GTO with at least 1/2 inch clearance and a severally worn strut bushing. I also strongly recommend when trying to stabilize the front end, to also eliminate the garbage radius rod busings. They allow a very serious amount of movement with caster and toe.
> 
> Now for the question on spring spacer, Pedders makes 2 styles:
> EP386/10	GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 10 to 13mm increase $19.80
> ...


Mike (aka Pedders Peddler) ...

Ok my friend I will take your word for it that the bushings are **** ... most likely you know what you are talking about and not just trying to make a buck off GMs crappy enginering ... then again ... let's face it that is exactly what you are doing .. nothing wrong with that ... 

In my book these cars look like the old Grand AMs .. the Grand AMs in fact looked a lot sexier than the the Pontiac Goat ... I mean come on park one next to a Vette your car looks like a turd next to a Viper or Vette but it is as fast or faster with a few mods ...

This is how I plan to handle the situation. I purchased Pedders shocks and these springs .

Pedders GTO SR Rear Coil Drag
5/16" Raise 2589 and

Pedders GTO SR Front Coil HIGH
Raise 1" Pedders 7120

I got all of it at a great price ... in Florida ... much lower than old Mikey would have charged me. I am sure !!! Shop around folks ...

My car runs fine with the spring spacers .. but they are a band aids.

I bought some beefy 285-30-18 G-Force drag radials from a highschool kid off Craigs List .. new pair for $135 .. he paid $400 for them but I guess he needed the $$ more ...

When I burn the rubber off my back tires I will have the above springs installed and change out the shocks. That will give me one inch hight in the front 5/16" Raise in the back. I plan to run 245-40s-18 in the front. I want my back end to sit slightly lower with the big muscle car rubber sticking out letting the world know I am NOT driving an econo-car .... fk Obama and Gore global warming is a myth !!! 

Since Mikey tells me the GM bushings are all **** I will take his word for it .. once Mr. $$ Green $$ shows up I may change them out. For now the factory bushings will have to do .. and I think they will be ok for the next 50,000 miles???

I tell you ... I live in Miami and I have seen only a few GTOs ... I saw one ... with the lowered springs ... it really looked like a mushroom ... cheap little rice burning econo box. These cars have a bad case of the uglies ... lowering them just makes them uglier ... If you want respect you have to put some big rubber in the back and loud Magna Flow exhaust ... hearders are always a plus. Oh don't tell the eco-friendly nut jobs ... but I go cat-less .. and only use my GTO off road


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## NiceShyGuy (Feb 10, 2009)

*Tire squat*



teamgs said:


> Sorry, I lost track of this thread. I don't doubt that extra HP might cause more squat, and possibly rubbing.
> 
> I also seem to recall that the majority of strut rub issues and complaints were from '04 owners with the 17" wheels.
> 
> ...


Gary,

Just because you might doubt that man decended from apes does not make false ... during the presidential innaguration I kept thinking how far .. man (ape) kind has progressed 

Yes Gary your tires squat on aggressive excelleration ... the higher the HP the more the squat ... kinda sounds like your particular car has a hard time to get the front end to rise up ... you might try dropping some viagra in your gas tank ... as you may be suffering acceleration dysfunction ... so we can't really use your car as a "reference point"

As I mentioned in my post .. the 04 had the worst problems with 17 inch rims. I have 18 inch rims so logically the problem should be even worse. I had strut rub on the front tires ... and after modifications my back tires where shaved to the metal after 500 miles. 

Now I understand that this has not happened to you ... under normal driving condition ... it may not happen to anyone ... but for those folks who actually like to drive "abnormally" like Steve McQueen in the classic 68 movie Bullitt .. well little things like hub rub and and strut rub ... can become an issue


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## dms (Jun 27, 2005)

After reviewing this post, I thought I should expand the discussion alittle.

In most cases, the strut rub is not causing the wear. It is a secondary indicator of excess movement in the front. the primary culprit is the strut bushing, and a weak radius rod does not help it much. 

When the strut bushing gets collapsed, and they were all starting to collapse due to the shipping process, they will continue to collapse. Now the strut bushing is made by Opel under contract with Holden. The process, is actually fairly pricy to do. The OE units are made from 2 different dura rubbers. The outer and center section are a harder dura, and the rubber between the 2 sections is a softer rubber. Why do this? Paranoia in road noise!! So when the bushing collapses, it gets weak and at some point, cannot maintain the strut shaft to hold the shaft in the center of the bushing. It then begins to migrate towards the engine compartment. This can add a bunch of negative camber. But it does not end there! When it migrates, it then becomes extremely weak. so when you hit a bump or have any changes in suspension height, like when you are going thru thee twisties, The strut shaft will move a lot. When the strut shaft moves, and it will move very fast, camber and caster will change. This will cause the most destructive alignment problem there is: CHANGING TOE! This is extremely destructive to the inner tire tread. Now the strut contact. Lets then assume the strut bushing is very weak and allowing significant movement. This movement can be 10-12mm in and out and will be very rapid. This can and will cause sidewall deflections in your tires. So now your tire sidewalls will begin to move in/out even more aggressively than just shooting the corners. The sidewall deflection is slower than the strut bushing deflection. So the contact is a result of the sidewall momentarily going inward, and the strut bushing is causing the strut to move outward; thus the kiss!. This contact is really cosmetic but very obvious.

Now I have seen multiple cases of very serious strut rub wear and damage. from it. But in all cases wear the strut rub is the damaging factor, something else was also going on. I.E. incorrect wheels causing the tires to contact the strut in a static manner, and more common, bent parts, caused from smacking a curb. The other thing to consider that is a bigger deal than you would think is tire pressure. On the 17s you must be at 35psi cold. I cannot tell you how many GTOs I have inspected with 24-26psi tire pressure. Lowered tire pressure seriously adds to tire sidewall deflection.

Now I have a thread on my webshots.com photo page that I have documented strut rut, when there was literally 1/2 inch strut to tire clearances. The strut bushing was so bad, the center ferrule was totally delaminated from the bushing. 

So here is the strut rub kit from Pedders:

2/4/09 PEDDERS STRUT RUB TIRE WEAR UPDATE	
MERLIN STORE P/N GTOTIRERUBPACK	
The GTO has been prone to front tire wear concerns, primarily on the inside edges. Some 
due to sture to tire contact, but mostly due to poor control of the upper strut position	
and the excess lower control arm movement on braking, cornering, and acceleration	
This kit offers the fix and method to significantly improve front tire wear. 
A save strut to tire clearance factor is the width of a pencil. Also it is critical	
to keep and maintain appropriate tire pressures as indicated on your placard	
Part #	Component Price 
4306	GTO Strut Clevis Bolt and Nut Package, Single Use $15.00 
4306	GTO Strut Clevis Bolt and Nut Package, Single Use $15.00 
4358	GTO Bump Stop Front Requires 2 packages $36.12 
4358	GTO Bump Stop Front Requires 2 packages $36.12 
5030	GTO Strut Bearing. $38.57 
5030	GTO Strut Bearing. $38.57 
5851	GTO eXtreme Strut Mount $42.99 
5851	GTO eXtreme Strut Mount $42.99 
EP9166	GTO Urethane Front Radius rod bushings and caster adjusters $245.04 
PDUSA5409	Pont GTO 5409 Replacement Front Radius Rod Nut. Gm P/N 11076363 $3.88 
PDUSA5409	Pont GTO 5409 Replacement Front Radius Rod Nut. Gm P/N 11076363 $3.88 

_ Pedders Parts Total $518.16 
PEDDERS SYSTEM DISCOUNT $168.17 
PEDDERS PARTS TOTAL AFTER DISCOUNT $349.99 _​
Now we literally have fixed thousands of GTOs with this issue.

After installing this kit, an alignment is required. Set your cambers so you have at a minimum, a pencil width clearance between the strut and the tire

mike
dms


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

NiceShyGuy said:


> Gary,
> 
> Just because you might doubt that man decended from apes does not make false ... during the presidential innaguration I kept thinking how far .. man (ape) kind has progressed


If you continue to make comments like that you *will* get banned. Some may not have caught your racist reference in your post but I did. We tend to tolerate a lot here but *I* refuse to tolerate that crap. Now it's up to you to chill or be banned.


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## xtranaut (Jul 23, 2009)

*The Pedders fix...but there's more..*



dms;
2/4/09 PEDDERS STRUT RUB TIRE WEAR UPDATE
MERLIN STORE P/N GTOTIRERUBPACK
The GTO has been prone to front tire wear concerns said:


> _ Pedders Parts Total $518.16
> PEDDERS SYSTEM DISCOUNT $168.17
> PEDDERS PARTS TOTAL AFTER DISCOUNT $349.99 _[/CENTER]
> 
> ...


In addition, expect about 400. for labor and another 100. for the alignment. My job came to 863.00 and change
for the kit and install, then another 235. for frnt shocks


Yo Mike..Never followed up with you over on Edmunds GTO board about my Pedders strut rub kit install. I had it and a few other bushings (Pedders) that were not in the kit replaced. When the mechanic took the strut lose, it not only fell apart but was totally shot... This car had 16k miles on it when i bought it. 18k when I did this kit. The people at Fastlane said, "we can't emphasize enough how this is a comes with problem on GTOs and any owner can expect 15k max miles on the car until it all becomes very dangerous" I echo the same from Mike at Pedders. No telling how long this car had been driven on literally no suspension but I will say that for it to have been in such bad shape, it rode well. One front passenger tire (an I assume these were originals) a TA Radial was worn bald with severe cupping. When the tires were removed to replace them with Eagle GTs, the mechanic noticed a rubber spacer in the passenger side spring. Someone said they put these in when they shipped the car. I don't know but it could explain the cupping or the cupping could have been the reason for the spacer..???

Anyway, I didn't have the money for the Pedders struts. The struts, rear shocks and springs would have been 3k. So, the only fix was to put Monroe Selec-Track SHOCKS on the front.

The car was re-aligned and aligned within OEM specs and close to Pedders specs but afterwards, I now have a vibration (through my wheel) at about 72mph. When I first put the tires on and hadn't yet had the strut rub kit installed, the car was smooth as glass (and didn't have a vibration even without front suspension!) Still haven't nailed this down.

The bushings make a difference but tend to make the car a noisier drive at higher speeds on Houston's concrete freeway surfaces (noisy anyway)

The thing that most surprises me is that the tire is still less than a pencil thickness away from the strut so while the towers might not shift and there is a working shock in place, I am still in the same danger of the tire hitting the strut under adverse conditions (potholes, etc)

Now, how to solve this? Is it spacers in the springs for the rear and tire spacers in the front?

I don't want more or different problems but I have to have some confidence that this car is safe. It is my only car and I am tapped.

Does anyone have a suggestion?


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