# LS1 vs LS6 vs FAST 102 LSXR intakes



## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

The latest edition of High Performance Pontiac (Dec. '11) there was a good article comparing intake manifolds on a '99 Trans Am. The LS6 intake picked up 15 hp over the LS1 on the dyno with no other changes. The magazine interviewed Brian Reese of Comp Cams (FAST) and he addressed the rumor that the LSXR 102 was to big for stock cubes or mildly modded engines. When tested on the dyno, the TA picked up 24 hp over the LS1 intake. The magazine noted that as mods increase, especially with better flowing heads and a lumpier cam or bigger cubes, that hp difference between the two jumps up even more. 

Seems the more mods you throw at the FAST, the more hp you gain form it. I know you '04 Goat guys already have an LS6 intake on your car but more and more LS1 Goats are going from mildy modded to moderately modded or more to stay competitive with everything else that's out there nowadays. Just giving you something to think about. :cheers


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Link to article? And was that just peak or was their good gains through the whole power band?

I don't think I would get myself to spend $900 on an intake mani, $400+ on a matching TB, and another $400 on an intake just to net 9HP more over the stock LS6 intake mani on the LS1 goats.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I can't find a link for it. It doesn't seem to be up on their website yet. The magazine's only been out for 2 days. The title of the article is "Expanding Lung Capacity" and starts on page 56 for anybody who happens to spot the mag at a book store or the localy mag section of Wally World.

Yes, it's not cheap. The magazine points out that it's not cost effective if you plan to stay stock to mildly modded. Most "stock/modded" cars have cai's, catbacks, maybe headers, and that's it. To get the most out of this intake you need a cam and heads to suck the air in, and with more cubes/and/or/forced induction, the gains keep going up. There's a reason you see all of the stupid fast cars in GM High Tech Performance running Fast 102s (the ones that aren't running 4 and 5 thousand dollar custom fab sheet metal intakes anyways). 

My LS3 FAST 102 ran me 950 from Summit. The Nick Williams 102 throttle body was another 650 from Hinson Motorsports. And the SNL 100mm CAI that came with a Texas-Speed 100mm MAF was another 450. So about 2 grand in all. But again, if you plan on going bigger, you'll never outgrow this setup. It'll take all you can throw at it. And as the magazine said, you can't beat the "wow/eye candy" factor at the cruise ins and car shows.

*edit* Forgot about the $200 FAST fuel rails and the $100 in fittings you need to buy from Summit or JEGS to hook the factory fuel system up to the FAST fuel rails. Although the magazine says you can use the OEM LS2 fuel rails as a cheaper alternative, but I don't have a price for those in front of me.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

2k plus for the fast and all of the accompanying goodies makes spending 7k on a TVS sound a little more logical now.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Or $3-4k on an ITB setup more realistic for staying N/A. Why have a cheeseburger when you can have steak...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I glanced at the artical and it say pretty much the samething we've been saying on this forum for years. Whats new?


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

My LS3 FAST 102 ran me 950 from Summit. The Nick Williams 102 throttle body was another 650 from Hinson Motorsports. And the SNL 100mm CAI that came with a Texas-Speed 100mm MAF was another 450. So about 2 grand in all. But again, if you plan on going bigger, you'll never outgrow this setup. It'll take all you can throw at it. And as the magazine said, you can't beat the "wow/eye candy" factor at the cruise ins and car shows.

All this in a car that went 13.25 @109 MPH what gives Dusty.:confused -----Danfigg


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

^^^^This is the same exact concept as big cams. Sometimes, you can go too big and it can cause a negative effect. If you do not have LT's, Cam/Head Combo, your just sucking in more air which will create a marginal impact at best. The whole idea of a new cam/heads, is to allow the engine to pull in more air. This is where the Intake Manifold and supporting mods come in. Without it, you are basically causing a bottleneck effect. You will never reap the real benefits of the Intake and Throttle Body without the heads/cam combo. It just won't happen.

Now I am not saying you will not see a benefit from an aftermarket Intake Manifold without a set of heads, but it all depends on your cam. If you have a pretty decent size cam, you can probably net around 15-20 hp. Again, it can vary each way. In all honesty, in my opinion, the $1200+ price tag for all of this is not worth it. People have their say, but there are plenty, and I mean plenty of GTOs out there pushing near 450hp or over, not running an aftermarket Intake Manifold. Port the stock and you get a benefit that's 1/3 the price, free if you know how to do it yourself.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Danfig, like I've said before, and my fingers are starting to hurt from typing this, those numbers were on a 101 degree day with 100% humidity on all-season Kuhmo street tires with a 190 pound passenger with me and all my luggage in the back seat and trunk for being on the Power Tour which is something 99% of you "car" guys have never done before on a suspension with 80,000 miles on it. Now that's what's up. 

I was running faster then the C5, C6, 5.0 Coyote Mustangs, and 392 Challengers. Not to mention it was my FIRST TIME ever on a track, and I wasn't far from making it into the top 10 for the day to win a case of Royal Purple HPS motor oil. Now that's damn good if you ask me. Ask my buddy Dan on here (Jetstang) if you don't believe me. Now, come get some...


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Falco21 said:


> ^^^^This is the same exact concept as big cams. Sometimes, you can go too big and it can cause a negative effect. If you do not have LT's, Cam/Head Combo, your just sucking in more air which will create a marginal impact at best. The whole idea of a new cam/heads, is to allow the engine to pull in more air. This is where the Intake Manifold and supporting mods come in. Without it, you are basically causing a bottleneck effect. You will never reap the real benefits of the Intake and Throttle Body without the heads/cam combo. It just won't happen.
> 
> I put 481/435 to the ground on XXX Motorsports' Dynojet in March after having the N.W. throttle body and SNL cai put on after a new dynotune. The car gained 26 hp and 20 lbs-ft over the stock throttle body and K&N cai. I don't have numbers for the FAST 102 itself. It was installed when the Texas Speed ported LS3 heads, rocker arms, custom Comp cam, and torque converter were installed. There isn't a GTO anywhere around here on the Gulf Coast that can come anywhere near me without forced induction or big stroker kits. I go to cruise ins from Biloxi, MS to Destin, FL. Without going F.I. or swapping out my bottom end, my car is maxed out. Now down with the haters. :cool


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

Dusty, your build is top notch. The part list speaks for it self. The dyno numbers are there to back it up. So many variables to track times and traps. You would no doubt smoke all the other GTO's in this thread. :rofl:


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Dustin's car is way faster than the numbers show, I'd say low 12's at least. He was asking me how to launch, I told him to go a 100' out of the hole then stab it, and it still spun. He didn't even lower tire pressure. That's not a bad run for "as driven" condition full of luggage and a passenger like he said. The timeslip does not reflect potential.
If he gets some pedders suspension and sticky tires, it may go 11's. Power is not the limiter with his car, it has plenty and sounds nasty.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I think 8 polished throttle bodies on top of your heads would be more of a show stopper than a simple gray intake with red & black letters on it... especially if we're talking "wow/eye candy" factor. I'm not hating on it, but it's still just your run of the mill common plenum feeder. Of course, the 102 will probably be enough for 98% of the LS community, but unfortunately I fall into that other 2%.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

well im a drag racer and 100 degrees or not 100 pounds of luggage or what ever 13.25 at 109 mph does not add up I can show a 12.50 quarter mile time at 119 MPH so what up wit that. drag racing is not pretty 95 S-10 rims have the correct back space and with slicks I ran 13.28 at 107 my car is mostly stock just a diablo tune axle back h-pipe and home made air intake. Make all the excuses you want and have all the witnesses you want but that facts are what they are here is a 13.29 with street tires----danfigg Figgz Gto At The Track - YouTube


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Poncho Dan said:


> "wow/eye candy" factor.


I didn't come up with that man. That was straight out of High Performance Pontiac. Plagurism even, lol. Ask GM4life. He subscribes. I'm not trying to say my intake is the end all of all intakes. I'm not stupid and I know what a Kinsler is and I actually went the extra mile and called the guys and talked to them a couple years ago before I decided it wasn't for me. Very nice to look at though.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

danfigg said:


> well im a drag racer... does not add up I can show a 12.50 quarter mile time at 119 MPH so what up wit that. QUOTE] LMAO. You brag about being Big Daddy Don Garletts... Please dude, you drive a stock GTO. Get over yourself. Kudos to you if you can "tree" the guy next to you but on the same track on the same day I'd put 1000 bucks saying I'd eat you up. You are up in God's country NY with nice cool temps and little humidity. Let's see you come down to the bowels of hell on the Gulf Coast in the middle of June and pull that off... Jag.
> 
> Start saving up your money now and don't burn all your vacation days because I'm calling you out right here right now on The Forum in front of God and everybody to run you at the 2012 Hot Rod Power Tour. It's like that old country song by Shenandoah, "I'd Start Walking Your Way". You'd start walking mine, we'll meet in the middle, beneath that old Georgia pine... They always do middle of the country runs to give the guys on both coasts equal drives to get there so you'll never see a Pacific coast or Atlantic coast run. So you drive out of NY, I'll drive out of AL, and we'll have some fun videos, pics, and stories to tell on here when we get back...
> 
> You drew the line in the sand buddy. I just stepped over it.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

dustyminpin said:


> I didn't come up with that man. That was straight out of High Performance Pontiac. Plagurism even, lol. Ask GM4life. He subscribes. I'm not trying to say my intake is the end all of all intakes. I'm not stupid and I know what a Kinsler is and I actually went the extra mile and called the guys and talked to them a couple years ago before I decided it wasn't for me. Very nice to look at though.


I know... it's just the idea of it being "show worthy" is kinda silly. I mean, it would be to the_ nerds_ who know about the LS family, but otherwise people see something that isn't polished and say "meh".


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

I think you need to save your money for some drag radials better yet real slicks because with your "mods" you will probably smoke up those drag radials. worst case senerio your race weight was 4250 pounds I am assumming 3750 car weight, 200 for you 190 for your passenger and 90 pounds for luggage = 4250 ish with 480 wheel horse power you still should of turn at least a minimum of 12.50 at about 113 MPH dont be mad at me be mad at your builder or your tuner. if your gonna advertise for fast and texas speed at least have something to back it up. How many people do you think will do any mod simular to what you did unless they see proven results. Here is some advise. 95 S-!0 rims 26 X 8 inch slicks and empty out your car with all the unnecessary weight spare tire jack etc and post your results so we can really see what your mods are really worth and here I did some research for you The Quick and the Scared - Sept 24


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Poncho Dan said:


> I know... it's just the idea of it being "show worthy" is kinda silly. I mean, it would be to the_ nerds_ who know about the LS family, but otherwise people see something that isn't polished and say "meh".


There must me some X factor as to why more guys don't do the Kinsler thing. I can't think of one car from any of the LS Shootouts over the 5 years that went that route. They all had FASTs or home made sheet metal intakes.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

danfigg said:


> dont be mad at me be mad at your builder or your tuner. The Quick and the Scared - Sept 24


I'm not made at you. I don't appreciate you knocking my car when you've never seen it, never rode in it, never heard it, never watched it on a dynojet, etc. I don't advertise for those guys. It's hardly like I get money from them. As for my builder and tuner, they're top notch. They wouldn't be mentioned time and time again in GM High Tech Performance if they weren't. That's actually how I found out about them. They helped build and tuned David Lazzear's beast for the All Motor class in the LSX Shootout. He came in 2nd place. Made it all the way to the final round before losing to the infamous Hugger Orange SAM camaro (School of Automotive Machinists). They know there stuff. 

Your advice is good. I was going to put drag radials on this summer to help the car launch better with all my "MODS" and go racing with Jetstang and Fergyflier at Emerald Coast Raceway but my tooth started hurting and I had to end up paying over 2000 dollars to have all 4 widsom cut out, and that's AFTER my crappy Delta Dental insurance paid their share. Pedders Street XA package is going on this winter/spring and hopefully rims and tires and a bigger torque converter with tax return money. The TCI 2500 stall is the achilles heel on my car. Sorry for spouting off but I was pissed. People get pissed ya know.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

dustyminpin said:


> There must me some X factor as to why more guys don't do the Kinsler thing. I can't think of one car from any of the LS Shootouts over the 5 years that went that route. They all had FASTs or home made sheet metal intakes.


X factor indeed... $ X 3 :lol:


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

dustyminpin said:


> There must me some X factor as to why more guys don't do the Kinsler thing. I can't think of one car from any of the LS Shootouts over the 5 years that went that route. They all had FASTs or home made sheet metal intakes.


X factor indeed... $ X 3 :lol: That or people are too afraid to tune them.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

The $ these guys poor into these cars is just stupid. I doubt it's a $ issue. There may be something more to the tuning thing. You see alot of them sitting in their cars fiddling with their laptops after every single run.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

Dusty its all good trust me im not knocking your car Just do us all a favor and post some time slips. I am curious at what your car should really run. I loaded up my van with the slicks, generator, compressor and had a friend drive it for me and we trekked to the track 130 miles away. Its not like I cant do this all the time but when I do go to the track I make sure my car is gonna run good and so far my last outing I was sure I would run quicker but I ran the same as my last run. I think its time for more mods-----Danfigg


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

This thread went downhill.


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