# Is the gto a piece of crap?



## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I am beginning to believe it is. I purchased my car March 05, brand new. Since that momentous day, I have tried to enjoy my awesome car and put the bad things aside. I fear the bad is starting to outweigh the good. My car left me stranded, again for the 3rd time. Key won’t turn in the ignition. It has been an endless onslaught of problems that I would never ever had expected from a $33,000 car. I sold my 2001 KIA Spectra with 60K miles on it for this, and that car went to the repair shop 1 times in its whole abused life with me. The A/C stopped working at about 1000 miles and it was repair in 30 mins. $12,000 after tax for the thing. I love the car for what it is supposed to be (I go to meetings, race days, here on the boards sometimes) but I am seriously thinking of dumping it now. The service list is like 5 pages long now. It has been in service since the day I bought it for
Driver seat rails (adjustment motor stuff) 3 TIMES!
Passenger seat rails 2 TIMES!
HVAC system stopped working once (vacuum problem)
Rear differential replacement
Drive axle fell out once (left me stranded on road)
Ignition Key wouldn’t turn in ignition 3 TIMES!! (2 FULL ignition replacements = 2 times stranded; towed in again today for the 3rd GD time; same driver, laughed at me for my POS)
Drivers side rear window seal went bad (entire window replaced as its one piece, now with no tint)
5 front end alignments (at MY expense, the thing will not hold alignment and chews up my tires)
Front strut bushings collapsed; replaced
Drivers side door panel leather trim fell off; replaced door panel
Now passenger side leather coming off; in for replacement
Countless sets of broken carpet retainers
Rear transmission tail shaft seal leaking; replace seal
Passenger side sun visor replaced, fabric unraveled around mirror
Front end makes metal clunking sound when you hit bumps in the road (suspect some bushing is damaged); in for repair
Horn would sound autonomously (comedic post here regarding this if you care to read); replaced relays; continued again; replaced steering wheel/air bag assembly; continued still and replaced some coil in the steering column at last(3 trips to finally fix)
Rear “GTO” valance (base of bumper) fell off and needed to be replaced
Key FOB died; needed to be replaced

I am sure I am missing something else but with all the trips it has been a blur. The dealer has been great, they all know me by name. They have provided rental cars at every turn, the Enterprise guys also know me by name. But it only serves to take the sting off. I am left with a dim view of Pontiac and GM though and I doubt I would buy another. Truly unfortunate. If only KIA made something with a V8 and a stick.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*Man o days...

Have you thought about Buy Back or Lemon Law options? I would explore this if you can. Your patience outlasted mine if I were encountering this... I have no complaints with mine. *


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

I agree; you should check into the Lemon Law. I've had my '05 since March of that year too. Almost 15K miles and no (knock on wood) problems. It's never been in the shop. It sounds as if you got one those late Friday afternoon builds and it was the thirteenth day of the month.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

Damn!
I would also check about your state lemon laws.
I've had my 05 M6 since 6/05 and have 55K on it, now. Never been back to the
dealer, and only issue I have now, is the stitching on the top of the rear
seats have pulled apart for about an inch on each.
I did have an alignment at about 30K. and all is well.
Daily driver, and is driven HARD at times.

Larry


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## Church (Jun 5, 2007)

Sounds like you bought a car made on a Friday.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*As I read this saga again, I realized, your 5 times in for front end alignment at your expense. You NEVER should have had to pay for the alignments. You obviously have a strut problem and probably other things going on that's kicking you out of spec. Your next expense will be tires. Don't let them hood wink you into paying for them, your strut rub is chewing them up. If the tires are bad, get them off the car before you blow one. Your car will be unsafe with chewed up tires. If that car keeps coming out of alignment like that there is something major going on there. 5 times in 2 years is not normal. I am sure your dealer could tell if you were rock climbing in the thing, or off roading. For them to charge you for alignments, it's adding insult to injury. Normal wear and tear front end alignments are different than reoccurring problems. 

The more I read your post the madder I get at the problems your having.*


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## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

My 04 has not seen the shop yet for anything but little warrenty stuff. 

*Great car*.:cheers


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

The deler stated that several things are not covered under warranty. Bulbs, belts, tires, brake pads, and alignments are a few mentioned. 5 does seem excessive to me as well. 1 was at another shop, the third I believe, because I thought the dealer just didnt know what they were doing. I cant actually believe it, but my car isnt suffering from this strut rub problem. The inner tire wall on my front tires never wore, it always wore the inner tread on the tire as if it had some serious excessive negative camber. Initially the dealer pointed to excessive cornering as the problem. "My Fault". I dismissed that theory with the service manager in about 10 seconds by asking the simple question "Where is the outer edge wear on the opposite tire?" You cant corner only on the inside edge of both front tires. Anyway, seems the collapsed bushings on the strut bearings was causing all of it, from the tire wear to the alignment issues. I am glad that issue is now resolved but it makes little difference to me, I still had to suffer all of it. I must have gotten a Friday car as stated, I should call it "Fosters". I will look up the Florida lemon law text but after 2 years and 36K miles I would be suprised if I have any recourse there. Its just so insane.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*NORMAL alignments are not covered, correct. However, you mentioned negative camber, that is the leading cause of strut rub. You also mentioned chewed up tires. They just don't chew themselves. Your tires I would bet are rubbing your struts do to negative camber. Take a look at your strut. If there is no rub marks on it then you can dismiss this problem, but judging by your diagnosis, I'd bet you are having some strut rub. There is something going on with your front end which is causing constant alignments, this is NOT normal. The dealer is double talking you. You already caught him blaming you for excessive cornering. You confronted him on that and he then dismissed that theory. 

It's common knowledge there is strut issues with these cars. Your collapsed bushings was under warranty? If so, why would the alignment NOT be? It was causing wear problems. I had my car aligned UNDER warranty at 17K miles because the dealer noticed, at an oil change the negative camber was out and the tires were barely touching the struts. Now, if alignments are NOT covered under warranty why am I and others getting alignments done under warranty? 

IMO.....If your service guy was trying to blame YOU for excessive cornering then recanted after you disproved that theory, what else is this service guy blaming on you or normal wear and tear that is NOT normal?? I maintain all of your alignments that were done as a result of continuing problems is a warranty issue. It's your choice if you choose to let it go, but you paid for a warranted problem, 5 times!!!! *


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## IPOCKALYPSE (Mar 7, 2005)

I would be *PISSED* if I had those problems with my car. I have owned an 04 and now an 06 and they both are great cars. I don't know if it was a Friday build thing or not but, I believe that your situation is far and few between (the GTO is really a great car--unfortunately yours isn't). You'll hear some people with some issues but, not too many with your list. I would talk to another dealer about the alignment because some dealers will cover that. Good luck with your situation.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

IPOCKALYPSE said:


> I would talk to another dealer about the alignment because some dealers will cover that.


*Precisely..... This is not a ...I feel like charging for warranty, or I think I won't charge it to warranty thing. If this was not a warranty problem the dealers giving away "free" alignments would be back charged by GM and they'd have to pay up. They'd then stop giving them away and charging it to warranty.

Your service guy is confusing normal wear and tear, with mechanical failures. I.E. Collapsed bushings.*


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Maybe your post should have read, "Is *my* GTO a piece of crap" because I haven't had any major problems out of mine at 31,000+ miles. Yeah I had minor strut rub on the driver's side but since I put on my 19s with a 40mm offset it doesn't rub at all and the tires are wearing pretty even without a wheel alignment since I've owned the car. Plus I plan on replacing the stock suspension parts with a Pedders package. But other than that the car has been problem free.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Maybe your post should have read, "Is *my* GTO a piece of crap" because I haven't had any major problems out of mine at 31,000+ miles. Yeah I had minor strut rub on the driver's side but since I put on my 19s with a 40mm offset it doesn't rub at all and the tires are wearing pretty even without a wheel alignment since I've owned the car. Plus I plan on replacing the stock suspension parts with a Pedders package. But other than that the car has been problem free.


Same here. And I have 35k on my04. Only problem I can remember is the passenger door lock actuator. These cars do seem to be hit or miss when it comes to failures. If your serious about the lemon law, it couldn't hurt to try. Sorry about your luck.


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## nsr (Jul 12, 2007)

that sucks about your GTO. i've had mine for 2 days, and so far so good! your GTO is starting to sound like my old firebird, though. man that thing was a chore! passenger side headlamp motor, passenger side air damn molding fell off, CD player stopped working (which lead to me punching the bejeezus out of it on one particular ride home from work, knocking all the buttons off the equilizier), even the button on the automatic shift knob came loose, and if you weren't careful when releasing it the spring would launch it into the floorboards!

that is interesting that yours is an '05. from what i've heard (friend who used to have an '04, his dad works at a pontiac dealership), the '06s were the worst year to get with a lot of buyers returning them to get the 2005 model, which is supposed to be the best model out of the three.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Well thanks for the feedback guys. I love the GTO as much as you guys do, trust me. Obviously there are issues specific to this vehicle, if thats the case then I would like to try again with another one. I just wouldnt want to go down this road twice. Its truly a love hate relationship, and I already divorced the wife, I dont want to divorce the car too. She didnt like the GTO


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## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

Got 33,400 now on the clock and the only issues I have had was a engine heating problem caused by a sticking thermostat (dealer said it was bug guts on the radiator). Hard headed dealer refused to change the thermostat so I went ahead and replaced it at my expense which, by the way, fixed the heatng problem. Also both front tires were noted at 8,000 miles to be wearing out on the inside edges due to the factory alignment having too much negative camber and last of all the mysterious ghost who toots the horn in warm weather.

Other than that no problems whatsoever. Car still runs like an ape with stripes on his ass. -Jim


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

sry to hear the bad stuff about your goat. got mine may 28th 05 and no problems at all. well i did have the pedal sensor


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Well I don't drive mine as much as some people with 145xx miles on my car I only has little things wrong with my car. Today my ignition cylinder would not turn I put a temp fix on it, my driverside door actuator was intermittent fixed under warranty, and shifter rattle fix under warranty as well. Good luck with your car.


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## Taxman (Dec 24, 2005)

Mine had lots of problems, was on 04 but had several of the same things you are having. Couldnt get a dealer to touch it after a long fight gave up and got rid of it. Still cuss it


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## 04m6gto (Feb 4, 2007)

*front end*

hey guys,i was reading your post on all the problems.I bought an 04 brand new off the show room floor,after 2 month it started.It was in the shop 5 times for front end problems and that was in the first year. I had the car for 18 months,after month 20 GM bought it back.I did buy another 04 just a few months ago,just minor thing have gone wrong with this one :lol:


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

My '04 is doing well. However, there have been a few little things, like the passenger door lock button, the gauges freaking out, etc. that have required attention by the dealer which leads me to say...

*The dealers flat out just have no clue about how to work on these cars. * My little things were either missed (problem happened again) or ignored (couldn't duplicate the problem). So I can only imagine if there was something like strut rub, lousy bushings, uneven treadwear, etc. That would be a nightmare.

JM -- your horn honking post is a leading candidate for the GTO Forum Hall of Fame. Sorry about the issues you're having. All I can say is hang in there -- and check around for another dealer that might be better. I found one about 45 minutes away -- and even though they're mediocre -- they're still far better than completely incompetent.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Dealer just called. Today marks 1 week when it got dragged off. The parts are still on backorder. GM wants me to turn in my Enterprise rental and come get a car off the dealers lot to drive. Guess I wont have any more fun in the Silverado. Probably get stuck with a G5 or G6. Anyway, I have no recourse now with the car. Florida lemon law only applies to new cars for 24 months. Mine is now 28 months old. Since this is only now the 3rd time for the ignition problem I am out of luck there. I also would have had to file a claim within 60 days. I am like 2 months too far into this it seems. 

Thanks for the comment on the horn honking post. I am sure you had a better time reading it than I did living it.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> Probably get stuck with a G5 or G6.


Two words: NEUTRAL DROPS!


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

heh. My car left me stranded Thursday the 12th of July. I still dont have that bit*h back yet. Can you believe it? Today is the 30th. This whole Pontiac car experience just gets better the longer it ages. Like fine wine.


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

I have an 06. No problems. In fact.... it's the most reliable car I've ever owned. Sorry to hear you're having all these problems. It's time for a new car buddy. I had a subaru that was like that. I felt like an emancipated slave when I sold it. Bought the GTO the same day. Try a used C5/C6 if you like V8 power.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Friday August 3rd was week 3. I am on week 4 now. Who ever heard of a car repair taking a month? My neighbor came over last night and wanted to know why I got rid of the GTO and got a G6 instead. After I finished laughing I told him its been in the shop for more than 3 weeks. He asked me if I wrecked it. Exactly.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> and wanted to know why I got rid of the GTO and got a G6 instead.


*You mean he knew the difference??? I thought everyone confused the GTO for the G6. :willy: :willy: 
*


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> *You mean he knew the difference??? I thought everyone confused the GTO for the G6. :willy: :willy:
> *


No, that's a Cavalier, not a G6. :rofl:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> No, that's a Cavalier, not a G6. :rofl:



*I was going to list the Cavalier but the mistake on identity with the Cavalier was Pre G6. :lol: :lol: But, somethings never die. I like my G-Cav. :willy: :willy: *


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## beaudee (Nov 7, 2005)

Yes it is a P.O.S.!!Also a chicks car.This ought to stir up some chit here.It is also my honest opinion.Been researching for another problem with my 05.Buy a FORD COBRA.I am getting rid of mine.


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## rcu316 (Jan 28, 2007)

JMVorbeck said:


> Friday August 3rd was week 3. I am on week 4 now. Who ever heard of a car repair taking a month? My neighbor came over last night and wanted to know why I got rid of the GTO and got a G6 instead. After I finished laughing I told him its been in the shop for more than 3 weeks. He asked me if I wrecked it. Exactly.



Did you ever get it back or just trade it off?


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

beaudee said:


> Yes it is a P.O.S.!!Also a chicks car.This ought to stir up some chit here.It is also my honest opinion.Been researching for another problem with my 05.Buy a FORD COBRA.I am getting rid of mine.


Your getting rid of your Cobra. Well that's definately a step in the right direction. Congrats.


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## beaudee (Nov 7, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> Your getting rid of your Cobra. Well that's definately a step in the right direction. Congrats.


Getting rid of the SLOWGTO. If anyone plans on keeping their GTO at least get the extended warranty.An american made Ford 03,04 cobra is a step way above a GTO.


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## GTOJon (Jan 25, 2005)

beaudee said:


> Getting rid of the SLOWGTO. If anyone plans on keeping their GTO at least get the extended warranty.An american made Ford 03,04 cobra is a step way above a GTO.


:lol: What a sh!t-stirrer LOL Whew, at least I had one good laugh today!


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## beaudee (Nov 7, 2005)

GTOJon said:


> :lol: What a sh!t-stirrer LOL Whew, at least I had one good laugh today!


:agree Say where ya from in N.J. Hobokin,Hacknsack and what exit :willy::cool Actually i grew up in the the Cherry Hill Area,exit 4.I still like the GTO but its time for a change.And no they arent slow.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

I have had a 99,01, and an 03 cobra. Cobra was my favorite car until I drove my GTO now I have a new favorite car. I love the 03-04 cobras, but you just can't compare how they are built and the way they drive compared to the GTOs. I have nothing against them, I love cobras and would like to own another 03-04 and put it next to my GTO in the garage.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

beaudee said:


> :agree Say where ya from in N.J. Hobokin,Hacknsack and what exit :willy::cool Actually i grew up in the the Cherry Hill Area,exit 4.I still like the GTO but its time for a change.And no they arent slow.


It's always great fun to get people that are too serious about cars and life all worked up. 

Why are you getting rid of the GTO?


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## beaudee (Nov 7, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> It's always great fun to get people that are too serious about cars and life all worked up.
> 
> Why are you getting rid of the GTO?


:agree  I like the car,but its time for a change.Warranty is out,its been screwin me for maintenance lately.Several problems of mine are in this thread,and a few more.I wont be getting a cobra,probally a corvette.The GTO is the wifes daily driver,she wants a vet.


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## STLGTO05A4 (Jul 3, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your problems. 
I have an 05 A4 and have had my share of problems.
1-speedo jumps over 100+ mph when put into drive: dealer could not fix, had my car for almost three weeks, they repaced the computer twice, checked all connections and replaced the cluster, I still have the problem. The good thing is I bitched to service manager and the gave me a free extended warranty 5 year/60,000.
2-Drivers side window leaked water onto rear carpet: dealer had to remove door panel and reseal diverter that keeps water out.
3-Front bunper cover cracked under drivers side headlight where it connects to fender: dealer replaced bumper.
4-Front tires wore uneven and prematurely: dealer offered two new tires of same type, I hated those OE tires so i asked if I bought 4 new tires would they mount/balance and align front end, they said yes. I now have general exclaim EHP tires.
5-Two accelerator pedal sensors have replaced by dealer.
6-Three trips to dealer for Anti-Lock brake issues:1st time dealer said no problem found. 2nd time dealer said wheel sensor was bad, repaced it. Few weeks later ABS light again, 3rd time dealer said pins on plug of sensor were bad and fixed. Well guess what, just got the ABS light again, looks like trip #4 is to be scheduled soon.
7-I also had the drivers side rear seat cover split at the top corner: dealer replaced it.

I did just notice the leather looks a little loose on the drivers side door panel, I save that for the return trip for the ABS sensor

I think thats it....LOL. All this has happened over 2.5 years. The dealer has been great (most of the time) Free rental cars, and I have only paid for one oil change in 2.5 years.
Would I buy another Pontiac, you bet your ass. It's the luck of the draw with new cars, some people never have issues, some all the time. My only mods are Volant intake, NGK plugs and Taylor Thundervolt wires. Enjoy your GTO's, beat the hell out of them and have FUN!


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## AlanSr (Jan 4, 2008)

I've had mine for almost 2 months now and it has 7,700 miles on it. I have 2 years of factory warrenty. 
Is there anything in particular I should be watching for? I normally don't drive it hard, every now and then I'll punch it, and the fastest I had was last week I hit 130 but that was only for a few seconds.


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## AlanSr (Jan 4, 2008)

Basically....Is this the type of car I can plan on keeping for 5+years or do I need to make plans for something else?


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I wonder myself if my particular GTO is in it for the long haul like I am. The was my original thinking.

If money wasn't an issue in replacing the car, I would have done it already.
Ideally, I love the car and everything it stands for. I've had many minor issues and am being hopeful, the spiders are out of the car for some carefree driving fun in the Spring.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

raspantienator said:


> I wonder myself if my particular GTO is in it for the long haul like I am. The was my original thinking.
> 
> If money wasn't an issue in replacing the car, I would have done it already.
> Ideally, I love the car and everything it stands for. I've had many minor issues and am being hopeful, the spiders are out of the car for some carefree driving fun in the Spring.


With my luck after all the mods have been complete for now, that is when mine probally will start showing up.:confused


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