# My 66 barn find



## Bronzewyrm (Aug 20, 2013)

well I have had this car for about 4 month now trying to get the paperwork in order. now that everything is straight and the car is in good order, im going to put it to market! I was hoping someone here could give me a better adeah of what im working with here. and i know you guys love seeing project cars

so here it is, a 1966 Pontiac GTO. this is a west coast car, it was found on the side of a wrecking yard. It looked to be mostly complete so i figured id take a look. well the car looked so good i just had to make the guy an offer on it. he bit! the floors are good in it, it does need a 2/3 trunk pan replacement. missing a inner fender well on the RH side, as well as the outer fender and headlight assy. center console missing, and the original motor/trans is gone.

my phs stuff came in today ill run over it real fast.

~push button radio manual antenna
~mirror inside tilt
~mirror outside remote control
~lamps courtesy
~lamp parking brake
~rally gage and tach
~rally wheels
~console
~power brakes
~custom 4spd shift knob
~glass soft ray (all glass)
~headrests lh/rh front only
~floor mats f/r

W code 389, 4bbl, 4speed (wide ratio), Martinique Ex. color, fawn int. color

this car is in amazing shape for restoration. my father and i have been doing collision repair and restorations now since the 70's. i picked this car up due to who had it, the condition of the car, and the rarity of the gto. we were going to do the restoration ourselves, but after pricing the project out. i just don't have the funds to do the project myself. 

PICS!
well... the website is giving me fits on loading the pics. something about a script error?!? don't know. here is the link for those who want to see the photo album

Random Shots Photos by Bronzewyrm | Photobucket

im going to put it up for sale in the next week or so. im wondering if i should do ANY work to it before i do in hopes of upping the value. and then there is the question of asking price. before i had paperwork in hand i was thinking 10k area. but with the title and phs saying its a 4spd, softglass car. Im not so sure anymore. BOTH rockers are solid, both quarters are solid, rear fenders and wheel wells are solid, one door has one pin hole in it, undercarriage looks good. the story was that the original owner blew the motor and parked it in a barn. later during the project the trans was stolen out of the trunk while it sat in the barn. it was sold to a friend of a friend of mine. they slammed a motor and trans in it and hot roded it around for a couple years (till the body damage happened) then it was parked again(in another barn) until it was brought to my friend to get the motor, trans, and body put back together. that's where i found it. Any help or advice you all could give id be great full. i really want to get this to the right person for the right price. it is too god of a car to part or let rot away.

thanks guys:seeya
Bronze.


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## Bronzewyrm (Aug 20, 2013)

:confused was it something I said? just looking for advice. and no I don't fear the flame 

Bronze.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The car looks pretty beat up for 10k, I'd be looking for at least half of that if not more if I was looking to buy one. You could buy one already done for cheaper then restoring that one.


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## Bronzewyrm (Aug 20, 2013)

Rukee said:


> The car looks pretty beat up for 10k, I'd be looking for at least half of that if not more if I was looking to buy one. You could buy one already done for cheaper then restoring that one.


point taken.

i cant find a car for under 5k, period. if i did a frame off resto on this. id be into it 18k all said and done. even if i had bought the car for 10k. i don't see fully restored 4spd GTO's going for less than 30k

im confused.
:cheers
Bronze.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

You're not going to be able to do a frame off for 8 grand, just not going to happen.
I did mine in `07 and had a nice solid straight car to start with, did all the labor myself and still had over 10k in parts/materials alone. IMO you're going to be in for more then 18k for a frame off with all that that thing needs.


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## AMT1379 (May 11, 2010)

Yeah, mine is a a drivable project car with the original engine and some mods (rear). Needs body, paint, and interior work. Best offer I got was 10k.


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*$10.00 a pop...*

It would be best if you don't go around with dollar signs in your eyes, cause whatever you put into it is EXACTLY what you're going to get out of it (*IF* you're lucky). Just the price alone for a rebuilt correct 4speed (unless it's already got one) will eat a good portion of any profits. (Not to mention everything else that needs to be put together with the correct components). Sure, you can do a slapdash rebuild with cheaper parts, but the selling price will be commenserrate with the overall quality of the build. Reality is a nasty slut.


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## skurfan (Sep 19, 2012)

I bought an original running and driving numbers correct, factory a/c that works with hood tach, complete pretty straight body for 10k last fall. I don't see 10k there for a partial car. If it were me I would pass at most any price, there are just alot better values out there for less than you are asking. Sorry to bear the bad news, but it is hat it is.


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## Bronzewyrm (Aug 20, 2013)

Well, the only answer then is to restore it. I have searched the parts and looked into everything it would take for me to do this car. "cant to a frame off for 8k" you don't know me well enough lol. remember, I do this for a living and have to reso's going right now. dolar signs in my eyes? yeah a little, but like I said I want to get this car to the right person at the right price. I know where the #'s matching trans is, and could be done with the floor, frame, interior, and be ready for bodywork in less than 2 weeks. just need to source the funds for the project. 

im still questioning the body condition uping the value AS IS. I have done the homework and I just cant find car. (I do cars of the era everyday.) that has original sheet metal that looks like this car. I have dealt with some nasty problems D/T rust and age. the worst thing I think is to deal with shotty ass body work, mud buckets, rust buskets, hack jobs, earl schwibe, maaco jobs, back yard and shadtree repairs.
this car has none of that. im not saying that you guys are lying, and im not saying your cars arnt worth every penny. but if they have been drivers for a while, there not in the condition I am talking about for this car. maby the pics don't do it justice:confused if you were going to get you car freshened up you would bring it to a guy just like me. 70% of these old cars have some NASTY bs hidden just under the surface. I deal with it and know all too well... does it need some missing parts yeah. but with the aftermarket that's easy. the W code 389 is going to be the biggest hurtle 

thanks for the input fellas. I came here cuz I felt id get the best straight up info. 

thx 4 that!
Bronze and my.02


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Lets see....... estimate for taking it to be done:

Body/Paint: 15-20K
Engine rebuild: 4-8K
Interior: 3K
Parts and resto 10K

32K + roughly..... plus 10K for the car. Someone will be in it for over 40K easy. Expect 45K Unless they do it themselves or buddies doing it.
Not factored in the cost are the hidden items that come up not expected....... Most opt to buy one pretty much turnkey for less.


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## maktope (May 22, 2013)

Between what the PO did to restore/modify my 69 and what I have put into it to finish we are pushing 30k. GTO Judge hit the numbers on the head. Yes you can save some owning your own shop on parts. Labor your paying by doing it yourself or if you have your shop do it, its work that could be done on something else. To keep cost down I did not put a Gto correct motor I went with a 428. My interior is out of a 2006 gto, cheaper to pull it out a junk yard then repair what I had. All sheet metal except passenger door is original on mine. Paint was gone engine trans gone interior shot and no glass price was $2000, I thought that was a lil steep.


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## AMT1379 (May 11, 2010)

Well, it sounds like Bronze has the resources and expenses to do most of the work himself, so there will be some cost savings there. If that's the case then maybe he can make some money. I see a lot of nice drivers listed in the mid-20s in my area.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

While its true someone can do the work themselves more times than not, they don't get their money out of it. To go through a lot of labor to get the car looking the way one wants then to sell it for what they think their labor was worth.... its a gamble..... Too many don't factor in the selling the car at a loss factor. I have x amount of time in this and it's worth more than I let it go for.... I let it go because I couldn't sell it and needed money. .. followed up by I'll never do that again.


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## Bronzewyrm (Aug 20, 2013)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Lets see....... estimate for taking it to be done:
> 
> Body/Paint: 15-20K
> Engine rebuild: 4-8K
> ...


wow. that's fairly ignorant if you pay 20 g's for paint. 

$1800 yes HUNDERD no thousand...
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo317/Bronzewyrm/random shots/IMG_20130814_111205_zps65d57570.jpg

I guess if I had such a fat wallet I couldn't sit down. and was so stupid as to dump 20 grand on paint and another 8grand on motor and trans then yeah, id just take it to somebody you see on TV and wright a blank check. wait for my ride to be finished. You don't know how to do an interior??? body work? motor work? paint work? ahhh its like that. I do ALL myself. 

that's not how I roll.

Most paint work, if the car has good sheet metal and is going to be close to a show car should be right in the 8-10 k range. if its rotten or you want frame off work. add 2k

I have seen many motors out there, rebuilt already, for around 2k. 

trans id be in 1500

interior kit 1800

mic an other reso parts 2000

I know most people CANT do paint, body, and reso work. (very well anyways)
is this a car you would want to drop off to foose, pay for your resto and still make $$. NO. BUT if somebody had the skill and time to do there self. either you could make a driver for cheap, or put it together right and make some serious dough and rep for doing so. 

I really don't have the time to start the car ATM, but after all of this. I think im going to start collecting parts...

Bronze.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

It says 'body/paint', not just paint. And looking at your pics with all the missing parts and damage you'll have to sort out, fit, rework and painting~ at a decent shop would be 20k easy.

Like I said,(check out my pics below), mine was nice and straight, everything there when I started, I worked on it everyday, all day for almost two months.

You're job is going to be three times that in labor easy, plus you need tons of stuff mine didn't, like a steering wheel, fenders, rear quarter, possible tail panel, the ton of rust everyone finds under the front and back windows, bumpers etc, it adds up quick. And if you expect to get 30k at the end, the quality of the work must be worth it, adding to cost of the restoration. No one is saying that you can't do it, it's just not going to be as cheap as you think.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Bronzewyrm said:


> wow. that's fairly ignorant if you pay 20 g's for paint.
> 
> $1800 yes HUNDERD no thousand...
> http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo317/Bronzewyrm/random shots/IMG_20130814_111205_zps65d57570.jpg
> ...


Ignorant? Really??? My ignorance is based on those who had a quality paint job done and the price tagged to it. If that isn't ignorant enough for you then go price a good quality paint job then tag body work to it. Based on your pictures 20K for a good quality paint & body job isn't too far off. 

4-8K for a *good complete* engine rebuild is in the target range from a good engine builder. Give Paul Spots a call and get a quote, or call RaceKrafters and get a quote and tell them you expect them to do the job for 2K once. If you know the answers already then why are you in here seeking them? Calling people stupid who don't know how to restore a car but pay those who do is pretty crass. I guess I'm a dumb Fu&*K because I can't rebuild a motor or do good body work, whoa is me... but I'd put most to shame when it comes to doing custom cabinetry or furniture making. Your logic suggests those who can't do that and employ a kitchen builder are stupid too. Your combative attitude suggests you know better than most in here and are merely comparing your vast knowledge to those who have a different opinion based on ignorance.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm with Rukee, my body was original, no rust no holes, good pans and needed a lot less work than that one will. Did all work myself (except motor assembly) new interior, suspension, brakes, motor and trans, including body and paint. I shopped the parts as i am budget minded and receipts were over 20K, car only cost me 2,000 being a lowly Tempest custom Post.... If i only paid myself 10.00 an hr i would at least another 5k into it (and we all know shop prices are more like 60.00). So that puts it at 27K+.


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## Bronzewyrm (Aug 20, 2013)

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. just saying...

I did not presume to know more than all the people here, nor did I come here to prove my superiority... it was more to be pointed in the right direction, witch you all have done. so thanks for that! but seriously I didn't call you stupid. I just think your a fool for paying 15-20k for any paint work. criticize my paint work all you want, my customers are more than happy when they leave, and we have been in business for many decades. thanks for the opinions 

you are you and I am me. I was looking for some direction and I think I got it. 

sorry is I have offended, I should be popping on from time to time as the project begins.

thanks again
:seeya
Bronze.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

...again, your missing the point, 20k is NOT just for the painting, it's for the body work too.


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## InjunRAIV (Aug 21, 2013)

In on 1!

Also, my 64 was in similar shape and I have $25K in the body/paint, so the estimates you've been given are not way off base.

Just saying...


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*Call out the federal reserves!!!*

If he's going to do all the body work and painting, and is able to justify his man hours and garage space, then more power to him!  I personally would like to see the tally when all is said and done. (Ain't nobody cheaper than yours truly, and a veritable wad of cash big enough to choke an elephant was plopped down on this baby. :willy: (I dar'st not disclose that figure. The fear of having to squeeze my wallet from my anus again for more "incidentals" is painful, and then to be carried away down the road, awash in a plethora of receipts is frightening!  ).


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## randy1966GTO (Feb 10, 2013)

Rukee said:


> ...again, your missing the point, 20k is NOT just for the painting, it's for the body work too.





InjunRAIV said:


> In on 1!
> 
> Also, my 64 was in similar shape and I have $25K in the body/paint, so the estimates you've been given are not way off base.
> 
> Just saying...





gjones said:


> If he's going to do all the body work and painting, and is able to justify his man hours and garage space, then more power to him!  I personally would like to see the tally when all is said and done. (Ain't nobody cheaper than yours truly, and a veritable wad of cash big enough to choke an elephant was plopped down on this baby. :willy: (I dar'st not disclose that figure. The fear of having to squeeze my wallet from my anus again for more "incidentals" is painful, and then to be carried away down the road, awash in a plethora of receipts is frightening!  ).


I think you gentlemen are attempting to compare apples to feral hogs. :lol:

You are true enthusiasts who build cars that you love for your own benefit using the resources that suit your skills and budgets. 

Mr. "Worm" seems to have found a car that he thinks will make a pile of money after he finishes "perfuming the pig" and finds a buyer that likes the quality of work that he has done to it and snaps it up. I'm not suggesting that his intent is to screw anyone, but let's face it: building to sell (Mr. Worm using his own shop/skills) versus building to keep and enjoy (you guys, using yours and hired shops/skills) are projects on different planets.

Good luck to both groups on both planets! :cheers

Randy


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Bronzewyrm said:


> wow. that's fairly ignorant if you pay 20 g's for paint.
> 
> $1800 yes *HUNDERD* no thousand...
> http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo317/Bronzewyrm/random shots/IMG_20130814_111205_zps65d57570.jpg
> ...


Nice Jeep, but that thing is far and away a different story than a complete resto on that GTO.

And 2K for a running rebuilt motor?  Good luck. Machining alone can run you that just for the short block not to mention the head work and parts. 


That said, looks like a good project but car is really needing *a lot*. It may be "all there" but everything needs to be redone or replaced. Just because it has the original parts still attached doesn't mean that they can just be shined up and put back on. Hell, straightening and rechroming those bumpers you are looking at near $1000 for the pair. Repros might be cheaper but they are never as nice as original and repop parts are never as good a quality and even if they are IMO take away from resale value.

Not trying to discourage you Bronze or bash but you sound like you have $$$$ signs in your eyes and I just don't see a huge profit after a resto on this one.

And watch who you call "ignorant", just not polite. Judge is not just a respected member on here, he's a mod. :cool


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*1943 Lincoln cent*

I have an "extra" freshly repaired Deluxe steering wheel (in primer) for that '66, That I've spent a few (many) hours or so re-doing. How much would something like that go for? Maybe not a whole lot, but add that to the overall total of parts purchased (unless you spend considerably more for a repro wooden one, or a "survivor" plastic one. Face it. Most plastic ones are nearly shot, in this day and age. Don't believe they make a repro plastic one, neither), and you quite quickly realize that you've been "nickeled and dimed" nearly to death.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

gjones said:


> I have an "extra" freshly repaired Deluxe steering wheel (in primer) for that '66, That I've spent a few (many) hours or so re-doing. How much would something like that go for? Maybe not a whole lot, but add that to the overall total of parts purchased (unless you spend considerably more for a repro wooden one, or a "survivor" plastic one. Face it. Most plastic ones are nearly shot, in this day and age. Don't believe they make a repro plastic one, neither), and you quite quickly realize that you've been "nickeled and dimed" nearly to death.


The last sport wood wheel I seen on e-bay like mine ending price was $1500.00 and the reserve wasn't met.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

gjones said:


> I have an "extra" freshly repaired Deluxe steering wheel (in primer) for that '66, That I've spent a few (many) hours or so re-doing. How much would something like that go for? Maybe not a whole lot, but add that to the overall total of parts purchased (unless you spend considerably more for a repro wooden one, or a "survivor" plastic one. Face it. Most plastic ones are nearly shot, in this day and age. Don't believe they make a repro plastic one, neither), and you quite quickly realize that you've been "nickeled and dimed" nearly to death.


Performance Years will take your old wheel and injection mold it. (They send it our locally for this). You'll get your old wheel back with the raised grain looking new. It's in the 3-400 range. I have seen those prices Ruk states. 

I will be doing this with my OEM PMD wheel one of these years. I have one of their repops on mine now that looks factory new.


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## Indetrucks (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm just here to find out where to do a Frame Off restoration for $8k?

$10k for the car and $20k to finish it. That's my estimate.
You're looking at $30k. Do it if you wanna keep it and love your hand work.

I wouldn't expect to make big money flipping it though.
The console alone will be $400 for something that needs going through (so figure closer to $600-700 for a restored console alone).


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I see a car that has been wrecked in the front and has been left to the elements. That said, it looks to be a solid foundation. That needs a total restoration. If you can restore the car for 8 or 10k, go for it. A friend did his '67 recently, and it cost him 25k, with him doing _all _the labor. 3k was for the body and paint. It was a dentless, rustless, California car. And we didn't touch the engine....those new parts from Ames add up pretty quickly. And this car needs boxes and boxes of those parts. In my world, and the world I've been living in, that '66 as shown is a 4k car at best (missing engine and trans, and wrecked, remember?) and the restoration would be right at 30k. With an end car worth about that. I recently estimated a similar condition '66 ragtop, and my parts came to about 27k, including no labor at all. All told, I was looking at about 38k to restore it. With me doing everything myself. The man wanted 12k for the car. If he had given me the car for free, it still would have been a bad deal.....I've seen much ones that were done sell for less. I've been into GTO's since the '70's, and have owned many of them. They are not cheap to restore compared to Mustangs or Camaros. Apples and Oranges. This is just the way it is. 8-10k to restore this car properly? All due respect, I think that's delusional.


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## Tropical Goat (Jan 30, 2011)

I've got a good idea!...Take it to Gas Monkey Garage!
(sorry, I was just trying to lighten up the mood!)


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Tropical Goat said:


> I've got a good idea!...Take it to Gas Monkey Garage!
> (sorry, I was just trying to lighten up the mood!)


Monkey? Someone say Monkey? Not all GTOs came with one of these and if they did it would not show on the PHS>>


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## old-goat (Jul 10, 2011)

These guys are spot on about the costs - I have been doing this a long time and have built many a car, I owned a body shop back in the day, and am capable of doing my own work. That being said, I am at the tail end of a frame off rebuild on my 65, which I have owned for 32 years - not counting the original $650.00 trade value I paid for the car in 1981 I am in my rebuild about $18000.00, the body is done but it's not painted yet, I also have about $2000.00 worth of chrome work still to be done - the only thing I have paid someone else to do is the machine work on the engine


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