# A real GTO has



## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

When the GTOs first made their appearance my friends used to joke around about what a real GTO or Pontiac by that matter should have. This is the list: Three deuces, Hurst 4 speed, rally guages, red line tires, transistorized ignition, Safe-T-Track. Most of the songs and advertisements of that time were just pouring on those must have items. Today people might get offended if you told them their GTO was not a real GTO because of the lack of the items just listed. I think I read in a book that there are more tri-pwr GTOs now than there were made in the 60s. Everyone wants a "real Pontiac GTO".


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Tripower GTO's were the bait used to lure folks to the showroom They often left with a station wagon or sedan. But the GTO drew them in. Same thing today. Real, bonafide tripower GTO's were, and are still a rare item. Less than 25% of them were in '64-'66. But, like SS El Camino's and '32 Fords, there are more "tripower" GTO's than ever before. Thing is, the 4bbl GTO's of the first generation are no slouch, and still pack a punch. I had a plane jane '65 hardtop way back when, with a 4 bbl 389 and the 2 speed auto, with an open 3.23 rear end. Absolutely stock. Capri gold with black gut/black top. Ran a guy several times who was driving a '66 SS396 Chevelle (also an automatic) and also stock, and the GTO beat the Chevelle badly each time. Nothing wrong with plain jane muscle cars.....they are, in themselves, rarer than ever. Almost as rare as a real Le Mans or Tempest. Won't be any of _those _left in ten years. They'll all become "GTO's"....


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

There will be ONE lemans left GEETEE..... Of course I guess it's a wanna be GTO too... Well except tfor the 4 speed... or tires or rally gauges ( I do have a tach) ect... Although it seems to me the wanting to be something else really falls to the people that start these silly discussions considering there are 3 yrs where a tri power was an option and the gto was made for what 14-15 yrs total?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Make that 2.....arty:...., parked next to tons of GTO's last summer at shows, only one other Tempest.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Real GTO for 66-71 is simple. Vin starting with 242. My 65 LeMans is staying a LeMans, and the T37 is staying too. I have 65, 70 and 72 GTOs so why clone the others? I wont try to make a Formula into a Trans Am either, I like them for what they are. What I have no problem doing is stuffing a 400 or larger engine in them and having fun, lots of crazy sideways sliding fun.

People who dont have them, or want to feel special because they own a certain car are usually the ones who try to make such distinctions as to what is real. I wouldnt want to drive around on redline tires, and Tri Power is cool but that doesnt make or break a car. I get more excited about RA II/IV, HO, and SD than Tri Power.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The first high performance Pontiac I ever drove was a Mariner Turqoise '67 Lemans with a 326 and a factory 4 speed with rally gauges. It was a neat car. Not a GTO, but so what? It was a nice ride, and we all thought so at the time (17 years old in high school). Slot mags and jacked up in the rear with hedman hedders and Thrush 'donkey-d##k mufflers....pretty cool. They don't all need to be GTO's.......I missed out on a really cool '66 Tempest recently: OHC 6 cyl, rally cluster, 4 speed, console, wood wheel, etc.. Barrier Blue/white gut. What a commuter that would have made!!


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

In my original thread I was reflecting on what my friends and I thought at the time around 1965. When the GTO was becoming mainstream. Today we know that tri power were only on 3 years of the GTOs. Today radial tires are much better than red line bias. I was just reflecting on what was hip at that time frame. Dont want to get post tri-power GTO owners mad.


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

You do know that not everybody was born far enough before 1965 to even know what yer talking about right? But rarely would I get mad because someone had a opinion different than mine. Which would be always in my case hahahah. Oh and I was brought home from the hospital in a 66 389 4 speed 4 barrel goat.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

GTO admittedly by the people that designed it was "an engine swap with a great marketing plan", the median buyer for GM was 43 years old in 65 the median buyer for Pontiacs were 26, what pontiac did before anyone else was market a line to a specific customer base (young hot rodders). The Tri-Powers (and you forgot factory Hurst shifters standard), dual exhaust, "humbler" exhaust cut outs, etc. was all the bling to get you and your bodies talking PONTIAC and in the showroom to separate you from a few thousand of your hard earned dollars. That is why they are a "Legend" and why we all have these informative conversations. Does anyone NOT remember their first time seeing and hearing and driving in a GTO?....it is a visceral experience. I do not, because like Facn8 mine was being driven home from the hospital in a 65', but from the age i can remember there were always Pontiacs around, and the old Super 8's of my dads 65' GTO Tri-power and Moms 66' Lemans sport coupe, so the marketing worked and another generation of us where left to fly the Pontiac flag. When i think GTO i think 66-67' front end, Tri-power, GR-RRRRR (motor sound even my wife can now tell from a block away), His/hers hurst shifter, That Verdaro Green 69' goat ad sitting at the Michigen turn-around on Woodward ave. just looking for a fight.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Roger that, ANY information or observations you can offer from the mid-'60's when these cars were new and you were involved with them is valuable information to this forum, IMO. Nobody will take offense, I'm certain. Keep 'em coming, I say!!! I was a little kid building models when these cars came out, dreaming of the day when I would be rowing that Hurst stick down the boulevard for real.


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

im looking at an ad for the '64 gto..." for the man who wouldn't mind riding a tiger if someone'd only put wheels on it - pontiac gto " the images are as follows, the 6.5 litre emblem, splitters, grill, car in motion, floor mounted shifter WITHOUT console, and last but not least , the carter aluminum four-barrel...hell yeah..


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## blackplate65 (May 10, 2011)

ronnie and the daytonas "little gto" song went somthing like tripower 4 speed positraction 389 i think (havent herd it in a long time) but it is a great song!


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

blackplate65 said:


> ronnie and the daytonas "little gto" song went somthing like tripower 4 speed positraction 389 i think (havent herd it in a long time) but it is a great song!


"three duces and a four speed and a 389"


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

Damn... I wish I could go back in time and truelly understand what you veterans are saying. :cool I'm still pretty new to pure Pontiacs. 
Its been fun so far in my Lemans. Only thing I've not liked is how many people call it a GTO! despite Lemans badges all over it and totally different front end, lol. The average person doesnt really even know what the heck a lemans or tempest is. :willy:

Seeing this thread is making me lean towards keeping it a Lemans, thats for sure. Just not sure what direction I'll go though. Custom like it already is of sorts or go back original.


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

Here are some lyrics from the song GeeTO Tiger that I asked about on another thread that no one seemed to know much about:

There's a tiger on the market and I got the very first in town
She's got a Hurst floor shifter and the wildest screamin mill in town
I mean a 389 all super tuned to really shut em down.

Drag strip, she dont bluff, on the street she looks tough
GTO that's enough, listen to her growl
She's always on the prowl Gee TO tiger go

She's got a wide track action on a groovy set of red line tires
Transistorized ignition and a power pack of three deuce carbs
And she chews up the other cars, yeah 426 Mopars. (end)

There are some more lyrics from the song but I want to show those performance items sung: Hurst floor shifter, 389, red line tires, transistorized ignition, three deuces.


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

years ago I saw a , for lack of a better word, advertizement. Was an old commercial/press release about 10/15 min long. It had a GTO vs a Chevelle vs a galaxy. 389 vs 396 vs 390. They had a cia looking dude in the chevelle, a ALien in the GTO and a little old lady in the ferd. This was a Chevy production as most of it was praising the chevelle. In the three abreast drag race the GTO eats both of them out of the hole. At a certain point the chevelle passes the gto and the ferd well it was a ways behind both. I looked on utube and google a few months ago but haven't found it again.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

The songs as well as the Monkey mobile, "i dream of Genie" using all pontiacs were part of the overall advertising campaign. Paul Revere and the raiders also stared in the 69' Judge commercial, corny but effective on the younger crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=-5LIz7j-IvU

The Idea all sprang from Big Brothers decision to pull out of racing in 64'. Thats why during the x-mas plant shut down in 63' they produced 12 Tempest SD/FX race cars 6 coupes and 6 wagons (one coupe sold 2 years ago for over $200,000) for ex-factory racers to continue the dominance the SD Cat's had started at the drag strip. And promptly dropped a few 389's in Tempest Sport Coupes as test mules for the GTO, and DeLoreans DD. And Jim Wangers came up with the idea if they take us off the racetrack we'll take the racetrack to the streets.


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## Purple Haze (Feb 27, 2011)

*Your Ride....Right ???*

Hope this isn't off track but, I have been into Muscle cars since I was a teenager... (now 65!!) The one common thing for sure is "we love em"!!

I say, build what you what, paint it a color you like, add things (even if they're too shiny ) Rare is indeed rare, but it does not equate to value!! Would you buy a 65 GTO 4bbl, no console, automatic, White/Red interior...all numbers matching??.... or 65 GTO tripower, console and 4 speed (non numbers) Black/Black ??? IMHO the non numbers car would be worth more $$$$

I know the more rare the car is, the less you will drive it. I built a 66 Chevy II with the L79 option ( a true Canadian ZI block....one of maybe 200!!) , 2dr sedan, Aztec Bronze, Black interior, all tinted glass, radio/heater delete, 12 bolt 3:55 posi .......... trust me, everybody thought it was the real deal!! I drove the snot out of that car, even the 1/4 mile @ 14.02 @ 104mph !! What a rush!!

Remember that these cars are built with your dollars and should be with your ideas and joy of the end results!!!

Sorry to ramble!! Ric


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## 389tripower65GTO (Feb 2, 2012)

I love reading these types of posts!
Hot Rod, I hope you keep it original, but it's your call.
Here's the lyrics from "Little GTO", by Ronnie and the Daytonas: 
(this is from memory, I didn't google it..I've listened to it about 1,000 times..)
Little GTO, you're really lookin' fine.
three deuces and a 4 speed, and a 389
listen to her tackin' up now,
listen to her whi...i..ine...
Gonna turn it on,
wind it up,
blow it out, GTO...
Gonna see her on a road course,
or a quarter mile...
this little modified Pon-ton...
has got plenty of style..
Listen to her tackin' up now,
listen to her whi..i...ine..
gonna turn it on,
wind it up,
blow it out, GTO..
I think there's another verse, but it's 10pm,
and I'm about done.
(I'll google it tomorrow)


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## Roger that (Feb 6, 2010)

Here is something to think about. Many car songs were sung in the 60s, but how about today? I dont keep up with modern music but are there songs being sung about the Ferrari Enzos or Lambos or other super cars or todays muscle cars? Think about how much the GTOs must have influence society in its day.


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

389tripower65GTO said:


> I love reading these types of posts!
> Hot Rod, I hope you keep it original, but it's your call.


when you say "original" what exactly do you mean? Numbers matching? Leaving it a lemans? Or just staying close to period correct/custom theme?

Right now it's a mix between custom and original. Custom color, slightly custom interior (different door panels) no woodgrain etc.

If I go custom it'll stay about the way it looks now just maybe a few slight changes. Keeping it a lemans also.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Sammy Hagar's Trans Am and Red are about a Red Trans Am he sold at Barret Jackson a few years back with an autographed guitar....






Shes American made;
You know what I mean.
Red on black -
Shes a street machine.
Sets ten inches off the ground with a custom plate...
It says IEATZ28.
Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Yeah, a highway wonderland.
Yeah, and 79
ll be the end of the road
If you want horsepwer
Overload
Ooh, if you like kicks,
Just take her to the floor
[Lyrics from www.EasyLyrics.org]
And youre red lined and shiftin gears,
Hear the engine roar
Of my Trans Am
Come on, catch me if you can
In my Trans Am!
Highway wonderland! Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Highway wonderland!
She shines on the street,
Yeah, and she shies at the heat,
And she shines in my Babys eyes,
And she shines on
Every other guys Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Highway wonderland!
T...R...A...N...S...A...M... Trans Am!
From Daytona Beach
Down to Riverside:
If theres a race,
Shes qualified!
And my 6.6
Gets a little too heavy
For a Big Boss Ford
Or a 350 Chevy.
Trans Am!
Come on, catch me if you can
In my Trans Am!
Highway wonderland! Trans Am!
Trans Am!
Me and my Trans Am!
Come on, catch me if you can
In my Trans Am!
Ooh, highway wonderland!

and this is a classic from Queen with a little Tempest thrown in....






I grew up in Firebirds so i guess i don't think GTO as much as i think PONTIAC, and i think there is a spirit to all pontiacs that includes the aforementioned list of speed accesories.

And HotRod that car is tastefully customized and clean looking, i would buy it in a minute if the price was right and that stripe although not original fits and accents the lines of the car as it should. Glad there is another generation willing to learn the history and carry on the nameplate.


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## blackplate65 (May 10, 2011)

Purple Haze said:


> Hope this isn't off track but, I have been into Muscle cars since I was a teenager... (now 65!!) The one common thing for sure is "we love em"!!
> 
> I say, build what you what, paint it a color you like, add things (even if they're too shiny ) Rare is indeed rare, but it does not equate to value!! Would you buy a 65 GTO 4bbl, no console, automatic, White/Red interior...all numbers matching??.... or 65 GTO tripower, console and 4 speed (non numbers) Black/Black ??? IMHO the non numbers car would be worth more $$$
> 
> ...


 guess my car doesent have value cause it is 4bbl auto white/red int 
but it does have a console :lol: u are funny AND TALK LIKE U ARE A TEENAGER


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

hey, it doesnt matter what options or color your interior is, triple power pack or four barrel. sure there are more desirable cars to some people. the most important thing is that you own and enjoy one of the coolest cars in american history of auto making. LOVE YOUR GTO.rickm.


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

Yeah thanks instg8r. Wanna buy my firebird? Lol I'm thinking about selling it. I can't afford 2 cars that needs fixing up... Oy...

But yeah the more I look at my car the more I'm convinced to keep it close to how I got it. Maybe the same blurple and get the chrome trim at the bottom like it would look from the factory. Maybe add a gto hood.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Hot_Rod said:


> Yeah thanks instg8r. Wanna buy my firebird? Lol I'm thinking about selling it. I can't afford 2 cars that needs fixing up... Oy...
> 
> But yeah the more I look at my car the more I'm convinced to keep it close to how I got it. Maybe the same blurple and get the chrome trim at the bottom like it would look from the factory. Maybe add a gto hood.


Only if it's a 69'-75' firebird..... already thinking about my next project.

Good Plan, HotRod, looking for a deal on a GTO hood myself. Subtle personal touches and clean lines always appeals to me when i check out a car.


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

It's an '89 formula. Actually a quick car if it were running 100%. Fuel pump's going I think. :/

Its very similar to a poncho. low hp but the tq is insane. 245hp 340tq. Before the fuel pump went its a solid 14 second car, maybe better with the 3.70 gears. 

As for my '70, I'll probably stick with the way it looks mostly. May not get the stripes again but def go with the same color and add missing trim. I just need to sell a car before I can really do anything serious.


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