# Hot start



## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

The good old Pontiac hot-start problem is rearing its head, starter is heat soaked and I'm stranded until it cools.  missed an appointment. Time for a mini high torque starter and some wrap! :banghead:


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Flambeau, did you replace the dash wiring harness in your car when you did the resto? I have run into the hot start issue with about all the automatic GTO's I've had (never the stick cars that could easily be push started) and it never turned out to be the starter or solenoid. It was always the purple wire from the ign. switch to the solenoid, the "S" wire. I run old stock starters, no heat shields, and stock solenoids on both of mine, and the '65 even has headers....and they always start now, even heat soaked on 110 degree days. Heat induced high resistance is the culprit. If you DID put new wiring in, you many indeed have a bad solenoid or starter. Years ago, I remember using a transmission funnel to pour water on my starter to get going again....worked fine, but was embarrassing. Since I fixed my wiring awhile back, no more roadside camp-outs!


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Geetee, I read that wire out when I was cleaning up the harness, was good static but could easily be degraded to the point that heat would cause excessive resistance. Are you saying you replaced the length of it?


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## Nashville.Clay (Sep 16, 2012)

I've had same troubles out of both my cars. Both with 72 cc heads( #12 on 455 and 13 on 400). What helped me was adding a toggle switch to distributer hot. Get the motor cranking then throw juice to ignition. But my starter had never failed to turn over beforehand. Just cranked really slow like timming was too high. After engine had been shut off after a drive.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Check/install high quality grounds. If you have a new starter, thing should crank great. Small wire just tells car to crank, not an issue. What kind of headers? Coated or not? I need to relook at your old threads, but I would go with grounds and continuity before heat soak issues.. You cannot overground your motor, yes, you have to scrape some pretty paint to get a good ground, lol.. Good luck!
I did what clay did on a dif car, works great as a theft deterrent also.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Flambeau, yeah, I did the wire. The thing is, you can ohm it out and come up fine and be mislead....all it takes is one or two good strands of the 20 strands to conduct electricity( voltage)....but it can't carry the current needed to activate the circuit ( amperage). These wires get hot and get old and tired, and look fine. They just don't work all the time. Just my experience, and I've run into it a LOT on automatic GTO's over the past 35 years. Heck, it was happening to me when my goat was 13 years old, not 47!!


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Alright, so the car was towed home and of course started fine when I got there, I drive it around and it was blubbering and not shifting well. Turns out the distributor had weaseled a couple degrees. I'm certain this did not aid in my hot start issue. This WILL not happen again with the woman, kiddo and dog in the car!
Game plan:
-Reset timing 
-replace 12 gauge purple wire to starter
-mini high torque starter
-heat shielding as needed

That should cover all bases as I have a vapor return line that is clear.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Also make sure you use heaviest ground cable from motor block to battery, i love the mini starter, more room to run wires and mount, cranks the 473 fast and always starts when hot. Do you have the downtube for ignition wires at back header bolt, be careful wrapping them inside it with anything but the original asbestos sleeve. Another member used header wrap and they melted together


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Good point on the tube and asbestos! Nothing else works, and rubber, etc, _will_ melt and cause big time problems, and possibly fire. Not a place to fool around. The asbestos shielding is available....mine came from a tractor supply house.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I have the HO tube under the manifold, I used some aircraft shielding that looks like asbestos but may not be. I used two ground cables, one from block to batt and another tied to frame. I am replacing my ignition switch as well because there is some voltage drop across the contacts.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Ordered powermaster 9610, new ignition switch, 25 feet of painless extreme condition 12 gauge wire and re-timed engine. Poor again but this thing will be licked. I'll pull my power wires out to see if the shielding was doing its job. Its worth 300 dollars to never face the embarrassment and hassle of being stranded again. :thumbdown:


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## 21553 (Sep 30, 2012)

I also have hot start issues. I have a Powermaster XS Torque ministarter. It had 4ga wire to the battery and starter. I replaced all with 2ga wire to the starter and all ground wires. Helped but did not solve. I drove it today to a show about 45 miles away and it was about 70 degrees outside. Once I arrived and shut it off after parking. I had to move it back a bit more and it wouldn't start. I waited a 15-20mins with the hood up and it fired. Powermaster tech said "no" to the heat shield. Anyone putting heat shields on their Powermasters?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I had the same issue with my 66 Chevelle. I put a toggle switch on the hot the distributor. Turned it off to get the engine spinning, then switched it on to fire the motor, incase timing is the issue and not starter heat soak. Also works as a theft deterrent. To see if this works, when it happens, unplug the hot from the distibutor and see if the engine cranks correctly. That's how racecars are wired.. Lived in South Carolina, and used it everyday.


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## olde-goat (Feb 1, 2009)

I replaced the battery cables in all my cars. I bought bulk welding cable, and had the ends 'crimped on'. The guy at my local auto starter rebuild shop told me never to solder the ends on the cables as the solder lends itself to corrosion and over time degrades making for very poor connections especially the ground cable. I have been following his advice and to date never had any starting issues.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Again, when you turn the key to START and nothing happens, but the lights are bright, the horn works, etc., it is usually a resistance problem in the S wire from switch to solenoid. This can be verified by jumping the solenoid with a remote starter switch or a small screwdriver. If it cranks when the ign. switch is bypassed, you've found the problem. Mini starters, heat shields, Ford remote solenoids, etc. are usually band aids to the real problem.


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## 21553 (Sep 30, 2012)

geeteeohguy said:


> Again, when you turn the key to START and nothing happens, but the lights are bright, the horn works, etc., it is usually a resistance problem in the S wire from switch it to solenoid. This can be verified by jumping the solenoid with a remote starter switch or a small screwdriver. If it cranks when the ign. switch is bypassed, you've found the problem. Mini starters, heat shields, Ford remote solenoids, etc. are usually band aids to the real problem.


There is something that happens. They turn over very slowwwww. Then it isn't a S wire issue. My ends are crimped and I might need to go to a heavier gauge wire than 2ga. Powermaster recommended 2ga wire. Issues are less but still there. I might try adding a switch to the coil.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Put my power master in, all wiring looked great so I left it for now. Had a noise coming from underneath under HARD acceleration that sounded awful like rubbing two pieces of sheet metal together. It seems to be going away as I shim the starter further away. Not sure yet but that and timing are all I have changed. Will be readjusting timing as well. Maybe the flex plate comes into contact with the starter somehow although I followed directions for run out. Hot start problem is gone so far but too early to report.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Listen very closely for sort of a shrieking sound just as the engine catches and the starter is disengaging. If it's there, then the starter is too 'tight' and needs to be shimmed away from the mounting pad just a little. Add shims 1/32" at a time just until the shriek goes completely away.

Bear


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## 69Goatee (Aug 14, 2009)

I had a starting problem years ago that was neither a wiring or heat problem. The starter would crank very slow, just barely enough to start the engine. Then one night it wouldn't crank at all, so I pulled the starter (without a jack, on my back with arms outstreched), and rebuilt the soleniod in a parking lot in the middle of the night by the light of a flashlight. I tested it with jumper cables, and it spun like it should. When I re-installed it (again without a jack), it still wouldn't crank. So, I gave up and had it towed home. Turns out there was so much dirt, grease, rust and crap on the starter mount pad and bolts that the starter was not getting a good ground. I cleaned it off and it spun the engine over faster than it ever did before. Now I carry a little bottle jack in the trunk....just in case.:lol:


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Update, hot start problem appears to be gone. It has cranked a little slower than normal when very hot but no issues at all. I'll report if anything changes.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Just wanted to update and say this problem never came back, cranks slower when hot sometimes but works like a champ!


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