# Got The Call Today



## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

It's alive!
:thumbsup:


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Excellent. You've certainly been through the ringer on this one, Eric!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Moreso for Jim, with his eye problem he is pedaling as fast as he can.

The car is now on the back burner, we have a 1948 20' Chris Craft Blondie in the shop for a full restore and we picked up the steel and wheels yesterday to build a cart so we can get it off of the trailer and roll it around.
Here are some pics, hull has been tuned and replugged and it is sanded down to raw mahogany and will be ready for stain and clear in a couple of weeks.
It is also the end of the boating season so a lot of boats to pull and winterize so hopefully a week in Dec. to flatbed the goat over and finish it up.
We just can't have any grease or oil around this puppy until it is all sealed up.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Well the tracking shows my engine delivered and signed for on Wed 10/21 but the shop was closed, gates locked and nobody there to sign for it.
I was in Mammoth fishing and didn't get in till yesterday to check the tracking.
Waiting on a call back from Freightquote to find out where the hell it was delivered.
This is bullshit!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I had a custom roll up door fabricated in Arizona to be truck-shipped to CA. When the guy stopped in Vegas overnight, tweekers stole the door off the back of his truck (16' wide/12' tall aluminum roll up!) and it was GONE. Had to wait another month for another door to be made and shipped. I hope you find your engine!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> I had a custom roll up door fabricated in Arizona to be truck-shipped to CA. When the guy stopped in Vegas overnight, tweekers stole the door off the back of his truck (16' wide/12' tall aluminum roll up!) and it was GONE. Had to wait another month for another door to be made and shipped. I hope you find your engine!


They probably sold it for scrap.

Working on it Jeremy from CVMS found who it was handed off to, MVE in Chino had it at 7:52 am this morning.
I believe it may have gone to Metro who does the bobtail deliveries up here on the mountain.
Still no call from Freightquote, waiting for a call back from Metro.
Apparently nobody knows how to input info into the computer system so garbage in garbage out.
It wasn't delivered it was signed for on Wed. @ the hub in Chino.

Update:

Called Metro, they have it and scheduled delivery is on 9/28.
Funny thing, my son had a dream about a month ago about this engine and said according to his dream it would arrive the day after my birthday and he nailed it.
Now I need to ask him to try and have a dream about lotto numbers.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I HOPE you meant '10/28'!!! If not, you'll have to wait another year!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> I HOPE you meant '10/28'!!! If not, you'll have to wait another year!


Yeah, typo I meant 10/28 but with the tracking on this engine 9/28 isn't out of the question.
Hey it only took me 4 hours to find it and one sleepless night wondering who in Cedar Glen signed for my engine.
I remember when there was a time before computers when you talked to Michelle in S&R, she used a ledger and could tell you what you needed to know in 5 minutes.
Once I got these people to stop looking at their computers and look for the BOL and talk to Manuel out on the loading dock there it was.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I was in the check out line in a Home Depot when the power went out a few years back. It wasn't dark, but the cashiers were dumbfounded. Couldn't do anything, the way it was set-up. All electronic, no paper. And it's getting more and more like that. We are in a time similar to the 1880's-1900's, when electricity and autos started to become the new normal. Changed everything. We are slowly going paperless. In another 30 years, you won't be able to buy a pen. And if the power goes out, you'll have nothing at all to do and no idea of what to do, either. In 100 years, people won't even talk to each other anymore or have muscle tone from labor: they'll be autistic text-bots, living in cyber space on their little etch-a-sketch screens.....


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

We were told how computers would practically eliminate paper in our office and how much money we would save and now with ever changing state mandates we have had to lease an industrial size copier and use about 4 times as much paper as we did ten years ago.
If the power or Charter goes out everything stops and we send all our employees home.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

LOL! Where I work, same deal. We have a copier the size of a refrigerator, as well as printing software in our PC's that are engineered to burn through paper like you wouldn't believe. VERY difficult to print only the desired fields. Also using MUCH more paper than in the past, and shredding most of it. Progress.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> LOL! Where I work, same deal. We have a copier the size of a refrigerator, as well as printing software in our PC's that are engineered to burn through paper like you wouldn't believe. VERY difficult to print only the desired fields. Also using MUCH more paper than in the past, and shredding most of it. Progress.


Then there is the last page that basically has nothing on it.
I save those to use at home for printing emails, receipts etc.
It is amazing the amount of paper that goes from the printer into the shredder right next to it.
We finally got rid of the FAX, a lot of crap from spam marketers that just wastes time and more paper.

The engine arrived in one piece, ordered a bunch more stuff for it and will get it up on the engine stand tomorrow to mount manifolds etc.
Should have the car together in time to store it for the winter.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Here are a couple of pics of the engine mocked up, I got my Ames orders so tomorrow I can tear the front down install gaskets for the timing cover, water pump etc.
Should have the car back together and running by Dec.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Nice work. Neat that you are keeping the AIR intact.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> Nice work. Neat that you are keeping the AIR intact.


Numbers matching car so yeah I have to go with the AIR.
Out here they don't require smog but they do require that all the original smog equipment is on the car and if the CHP does cite you good luck finding these parts.
If I had it to do over again I wouldn't have bought it and gone with a resto mod. 
The period correct dist. was over 200 bucks, once I get it running I will have a bunch of after market parts FS here on the group.
If anyone wants a complete Mallory electronic dist., coil, cap, rotor wires etc. send me an email.
This was all new on the car when I bought it and I have no use for it.
I also have an extra 7037262 '67 Ca. carb I rebuilt that will be available once I get my original back from Cliff.
This one has all the mods done, rebushed with nice tight shafts that I will be running until my original comes back.
It will need the dashpot and bracket, mine is shot and I am trying to source one.
Just one more part at least that is what I tell my wife but she isn't buying what I am selling.


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## squirrelbox (Apr 25, 2015)

I am a couple weeks away from pulling out my engine and giving it to my pontiac guy. Can't tell you how much I love your pictures of your engine. Like art. Bty the striped shirts in the background create a nice presentation. Solid, dependable and workman like.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

squirrelbox said:


> I am a couple weeks away from pulling out my engine and giving it to my pontiac guy. Can't tell you how much I love your pictures of your engine. Like art. Bty the striped shirts in the background create a nice presentation. Solid, dependable and workman like.


Thanks, it's an old skool shop that had been there since 1948 and you don't know the players without the shirts.

I will post more pics when I finally get it assembled, I have the spark plug loom mounts that were missing and now I have to figure out where they go.
Everything else is ready for final assembly.


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## 1966 GTO KID (Oct 10, 2011)

*AIR Smog Pump Unit*

Roper, was your AIR unit rebuilt - I have a '66 GTO Fremont built that has AIR system and somewhere down the road I will need to have it serviced or rebuilt.
Thanks,


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

1966 GTO KID said:


> Roper, was your AIR unit rebuilt - I have a '66 GTO Fremont built that has AIR system and somewhere down the road I will need to have it serviced or rebuilt.
> Thanks,


No, the bearings and valve are good on mine and it pumps air so I haven't done anything with it.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

1966 GTO KID said:


> Roper, was your AIR unit rebuilt - I have a '66 GTO Fremont built that has AIR system and somewhere down the road I will need to have it serviced or rebuilt.
> Thanks,


Well after inspecting the one way valves I found pieces of what I think are the vanes in them so I will have to have the pump rebuilt.
Cardone.com is the only rebuilder I could find, go to their site and download the form then you need to find a parts store that has a Cardone acct. to go through, they don't deal with the GP.

http://www.cardone.com/docs/default...0return-20form-20--20rr101-20--20rev-2019.pdf

I also found this place, I will probably go with them since I don't need a middleman.

http://www.rebuildingfactory.com/index.html


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Engine is in!
passenger side exhaust is in, tomorrow driver's side will go in and we will see if she wants to start.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Moar picks.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Congrats, man. She is looking GRREAT!! Alot of hard work there.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Beautiful, Eric. Really, really looking good. One nit to pick: that Buick 400 4V sticker on the air cleaner has to go...Pontiac never used those! Love the color of your car and the wheels.....classic all the way.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

That was on the air cleaner when I bought it and I didn't think it was original.
Thanks for the confirmation, I will remove it today.
If you noticed I put the proper turkey foot connector on the PCV valve/carb.

Keep the nitpicks coming, I am trying to go original but there are so many pics on the net with changes over the last 50 years it is hard to find what was original and what was changed.
I still have a lot of little details to do but I am pretty sure it will fire up today.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Eric, I have a good friend with 2 original, not-messed-with '67 AIR 400 engines. If you need any info on fasteners/looms/brackets, let me know. Mine is also original, but is not a CA AIR car. The devil is in the details, and I KNOW you are a detail guy! Good luck with the fire-up!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

I think it is all correct and I don't have any clips or brackets left over.
I took a LOT of pics as I was tearing it down so those helped putting it all back together.
The smog pump had some Mickey Moused bolts and it was on upside down so I got the correct parts from Frank's and it is correct now.

I am getting fire but it is out of the carb but at least I know I have spark.

I think I may be one tooth off on the dist. but it's late and I will get it to run tomorrow.
All that is left is to dial it in and put the hood on.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Well I had the spark plug wiring order on the cap backwards, once that was fixed it fired right up.
Other than a vacuum leak on the carb it is all done.
I will have to wait to test drive it, we have snow and the county put down cinders so that is out until they are off the roads.
:/


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Well it runs pretty good and it is back in the garage just one week shy of a year to get it done.
All I have to do now is break it in, once the weather clears out it's down to Valley Tire for an alignment.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Took a run up to Running Springs today and it runs great.
Today is the day one year ago I shut it off and we pulled the engine.
:thumbsup:


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

gr! Nice work! That car looks awesome and the engine, nice all around.....when that is purring down the road you will enjoy many rides! I think you have to drive them regularly, it helps them and you can always tell what is happening! I keep all the gauges live, but love that vacumn gauge...really tells you what is happening...Great job!


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## squirrelbox (Apr 25, 2015)

having a hard time on my restore. Your car makes me happy


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

MAN that is a classy looking goat, Eric. I wouldn't change a thing....everything about it is right, IMO. VERY clean and understated.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks for the comments and the help on this restore guys and SB just keep plugging along and eventually you will get there.
Now it's just Gas, Tires and Oil.


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## squirrelbox (Apr 25, 2015)

What size are your tires and rims may I ask.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

235/60-15


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## zrsteve (Aug 28, 2014)

GR.......it was a long time coming, but that's a fine looking GTO.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks Steve.
Rain today so I didn't take it out as planned.
I ordered the Delco battery topper today from Ames, going to plastikote the battery flat black and cover up that Interstate green.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Well it just never ends with this engine build, noisy lifters so off with the valve covers.
All the nuts on the rockers were backing off, the one in the rear on the driver's side was so loose I was able to lift it off of the pushrod and turn it sideways.
I bought all new nuts yesterday and I am going to replace them all.
Should I use Loctite or just clean the oil off the studs and put on the new ones?
Any tips on how to do this from any of you Pontiac gurus?
I caught it before I bent a pushrod, this reworking a freshly built engine is getting old.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Been running Polylocks on screw in studs since had first my first Pontiac V8 built in the 80's. Only issues have ever had was with Polylocs backing off... was on some stock bottle neck screw in studs, ended up unbolting all 16 rocker studs and lightly bumped the small ends on my bench belt sander. Reinstalled guide plates, torqued down the studs, adjusted the lifters, set the Polylock nuts, no problems. Most heads have built with last 20 years, have been converted to straight 7/16" studs and Polylocks.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

If you use the standard nuts, some of them are one-time-use crush nuts. You can follow the valve adjust procedure listed on this forum, or torque them all to 20 foot pounds and run it. I have poly locks on the '65 and haven't touched them since 1981, literally. I have regular nuts on the '67, installed new on screw in 7/16" Chevy style studs on the '67, and haven't touched them since I did the heads in 2008. Either will work fine, installed properly. NO on the loktite!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks for the info guys, I will search the group for the adjust procedure.

I took the nut off and tried it on a new 7/16 bolt and it stopped at the crimp, put the same nut on the stud and it went on all the way with my fingers.
It isn't like Jim didn't know this he just went ahead and assembled it anyway.
Just got back from [email protected] Speed in Riverside, the new set of magnum roller rockers he installed are now junk so I had to buy another set along with poly locks and new studs.

Thanks Jim for the half assed rebuild, I wouldn't send my Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine to CVMS.
Rusted tins, cracked balancer hub, missing bolts that I had to rebuy along with all the gaskets.
It wouldn't surprise me if the bottom end takes a shit once I replace all of this stuff.
This rebuild is an old joke that just isn't funny anymore.
I would have been better off not even rebuilding it, I have the same POS that I can gimp around town.
No way I would drive it down the mountain and take it onto the freeway unless I had AAA on speed dial.
If the work on the bottom end is as good as the rest of it I won't get 500 miles out of this turd.
:mad2:


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Cannot find the valve adjust procedure on the forum so I guess I will go by the manual and set them @ 20 ft. lbs.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Wow, sorry to hear that you are having all these problems -sucks. Have you tried to contact CVMS? BearGFR is always speaking highly of him and recommends him all the time. Maybe he needs to be made aware of all the problems you have had with the engine. I think what happens a lot is the small top quality shop gets that great reputation, but also gets a ton of business and the backlog of builds to go with it. Then they hire people who are just worker bees and don't put the care and love in the rebuild like the guy who started the business. So the big name builder than gets a black eye because he has idiots working on your pride and joy.

Honestly, I would send an email, not in anger, but tell him you are pretty damn frustrated that YOU chose to have CVMS do your rebuild due to many recommendations of other Pontiac enthusiasts and since you got your engine back, you have had nothing but disappointment and problems with it when it should have been turn-key and you should be enjoying it right now and for the next 20+ years without problem.

He may work with you, and/or fire the idiot who did your engine. :thumbsup:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Has to be more to the story I think. I've never known him to do shoddy work or to allow it out of his shop. He has been having some challenges with health of late and has had a couple surgeries, so possibly anything that got missed happened during all that.
I've got confidence he'll work with you - just contact him and give him a chance.

Bear


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

I don't see any point in it, here is the valley pan, leaking at the rear when I removed it, it wasn't rusted when I sent it, the oil pan was even worse.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f92/wtb-1967-400-valley-pan-97513/

The hub for the balancer that was supposed to be replaced was just bolted on, not torqued and it was cracked the full length along the keyway.
The rest of the balancer was in a box without the bolts.
When I mounted the puller and wiggled it to adjust the bolts I was able to pull it off with my hands.
I didn't have a 9/16 installer so I had to order that tool, another 100 bucks + tax and shipping.
Of course I had to buy the whole assembly from Ames when I was supposed to already be done.
Since I didn't get the original bolts back the ones that came with the balancer were too short so another trip to the parts store for the correct bolts.
No flexplate, he did finally send me one but without the shim plate, faceplate or bolts, I had to buy those from Frank's.
The timing cover was repaired with helicoils, it was leaking and had a gob of Permatex smeared on it.
I was able to source another one from Franks, the water pump was rusted so I put the original back on it.
New fuel pump was in a box because it couldn't be mounted because of the engine cradle, again no bolts.
Missing drain plugs not in the block, missing fitting for the oil line little stuff but a PIA when you have to order it and pay shipping.
I was supposed to get a dist. since I waited so long for the engine but it came without one, I was able to find the right one at Frank's, 200 + bucks with shipping.
I realize he has had problems with his health and I waited and got this engine back on Oct. 28th when I was supposed to be done sometime in mid April but I sure as hell didn't expect what I got back.
Now after dealing with all of the time and expense to get what I paid for now having to replace a whole set of new rockers I am beyond pissed.
I didn't even look at the top of the valve stem, I just dropped the hood and walked out of the shop before I threw a hammer through the windshield.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Eric, I feel terrible for my recommendations and for your bad experience. I agree with JIm, call CVMS or write, but let them know what an expensive let-down this has been.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Erik, Stay the course, get the GTO running, things will get better. 
Wish you would have posted a parts wanted for the missing pieces, have a TON of '66-68 engine accessory parts, including really nice timing covers. It seems a ton of folks on this site do not have dozens of long time vendors theyve dealt with, and as a result they flippantly recommend Frank. I don't get it.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Well the good news is the new rockers and polylocks are on, Wallace Racing has a great tutorial on the procedure. 
It runs smoother and cooler and I think I heard the valve cover bolt I dropped and couldn't find bounce along the floor pan on it's way out the back coming out of the S heading into the straightaway across the dam.
First time I tested the suspension, really nice!
I think I may be good on the bottom end of the engine if it was going to come apart it would have been tonight.
 
Almost got it into 3rd but I had to shut it down to make the 90 degree turn at the end.
It also passed the brake test.

I should have posted asking for more pieces, I didn't see anything in the FS for the 8 bolt cover.
Getting hard to find these in good condition.
I was actually looking for another part when I saw the cover and called Frank, it had just been posted and I missed the other one.
Frank's is 2 1/2 hours from me and if I order parts in the AM they are here the next afternoon.
He was the only one who had the A/C heater plenum I needed and I drove out to 29 Palms to get it.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Great news, Eric! Pinionhead, you da _man_!!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> Great news, Eric! Pinionhead, you da _man_!!


Yup and thanks for the tip about the polylocks these things won't be backing off.
The valves were not right from day one and that is why I couldn't get the timing or the carb adjusted.
Now I just press the accelerator once when cold to set the choke and it fires right up, just hit the key when warm and it does the same thing.
I can put it in gear without it dying and the engine sounds like it should.
I am going to run it some more today and take it up the mountain, temp is now staying in the 190 210 range.
Tomorrow rain and then a couple of feet of snow on Sunday so today is the last day I will be able to drive it for awhile.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Great news. Younger folks don't understand that a well set-up and maintained carburetor can be as reliable and user-friendly as fuel injection. The Q-jet on my '67 is the same way....it just works. Now, go ahead and break that sucker in...but keep it rubber side down.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

My high dollar Ames repro voltage regulator took a dump, quick pit stop to swap it out with the China Doll SS that came on the car and it's all good.
A lot of these QJets went in the wheelie bin in favor of Hollies etc. and are getting harder to find.
This carb needs a little work, it stalls when I punch it but if I feed it on slowly it will drink all I can give it.
This is a carb I bought and just put a kit in it, the original is @ Cliff's getting the extreme makeover and I will run this one until that one comes back.
I don't think it is set up right for this trans/drivetrain but it is a worker for now.
Pretty sure I can venture a little further from home base now.


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