# Bad paint



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

This just exploded on my car the last day or so. The paint is all blistering, getting a rough texture like leather or something. It`s happening all over the car. I called the guy that painted it and he`s claiming some sort of chemical reaction (no sh!t ) and it`ll have to be stripped down to bare metal once again. The top will have to come off too since he painted under there also. So I told him I would remove all the chrome, bumpers, door handles, emblems, etc, but I didn`t wanna pay for another paint job! I`m already going to have to buy another vinyl top. If he used the wrong products that is his problem. I paid for a professional paint job, and this don`t cut it. I`m pissed! Am I over reacting? Should I be more understanding?


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Rukee, That is some strange looking stuff !! A friend of mine who paints said it looks like the wrong primer or reducer was used. OR the surface was contaminated before the paint was sprayed.......HOW LONG AGO was the car painted ?? Eric


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

To me, and I don't paint, it looks like in the old days when you sprayed Enamel over Laquer ( or the other way around ) this would occur.....rather quickly within a week ????:confused  LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENS !


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

Your not over reacting, you paid for a professional paint job, thats bs, he should do it free of charge this time


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

Looks like orange peal to me. Had the same thing on my 85 GT. I would not go back to your painter...

Orange peel is a certain kind of texture that may develop on painted surfaces. The texture resembles the bumpy surface of the skin of an orange (fruit) hence the name.

Gloss paint sprayed on a smooth surface (such as the body of a car) should also dry into a smooth surface. However, various factors can cause it to dry into a bumpy surface resembling the texture of an orange peel. The orange peel phenomenon can then be smoothed out with ultra-fine sandpaper, but it can be prevented altogether by changing the painting technique or the materials used. Orange peel is typically the result of improper painting technique, and is caused by the quick evaporation of thinner, incorrect spray gun setup (e.g., low air pressure or incorrect nozzle), spraying the paint at an angle other than perpendicular, or applying excessive paint.

In some situations, such as interior house paint, the orange peel texture is generally desirable. In this case, a texture paint is generally applied with a spray gun. The texture is then painted over with the appropriate color. When painting walls, orange peel can also develop by using a roller with too little paint or too thick a paint and the surface dries before the texture can level.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Eric Animal said:


> Rukee, That is some strange looking stuff !! A friend of mine who paints said it looks like the wrong primer or reducer was used. OR the surface was contaminated before the paint was sprayed.......HOW LONG AGO was the car painted ?? Eric


It was painted like the end of Nov, first part of December. The paint did not look like that when it was picked up. Just in the last day it kinda exploded all over. Only thing I can think of is I have it out in the warm sunlight, possibly that is causing the reaction.




PDQ GTO said:


> Looks like orange peal to me. Had the same thing on my 85 GT. I would not go back to your painter...
> 
> Orange peel is a certain kind of texture that may develop on painted surfaces. The texture resembles the bumpy surface of the skin of an orange (fruit) hence the name.
> 
> Gloss paint sprayed on a smooth surface (such as the body of a car) should also dry into a smooth surface. However, various factors can cause it to dry into a bumpy surface resembling the texture of an orange peel. The orange peel phenomenon can then be smoothed out with ultra-fine sandpaper, but it can be prevented altogether by changing the painting technique or the materials used. Orange peel is typically the result of improper painting technique, and is caused by the quick evaporation of thinner, incorrect spray gun setup (e.g., low air pressure or incorrect nozzle), spraying the paint at an angle other than perpendicular, or applying excessive paint.


I know what orange peel looks like and that texture would have been that way from the start. When I fist painted the car I had an orange peel problem, and wet sanding and buffing did make it all smooth, but too thin too. That`s why I hired this guy to repaint it right.


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## blondie67 (Jan 28, 2008)

*bad painter.....*

OMG! I'd be real *&^%$! I would suggest getting a refund and NOT ever going to that painter again. You shouldn't have to do anything! He should pay for the top also. I'd be taking him to small claims court or something. I don't know how much this cost you, but don't forget your time in the calculation. This is not orange peel. It looks like what everyone stated before, some kind of chemical reaction. This painter should've known this. I can only guess the time involved in getting this paint job done, and taking off all the chrome and everything is not a walk in the park. Take it somewhere else and bill this painter for it.
Linda


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Wow! That sucks.

You've already answered one key question. The paint job is 3.5 months old. One thing you didn't mention was the price you paid. Another as who did the job.

If you paid for an Earl Scheib job, well, I guess you got what you paid for.

If you went to some backyard bubba who paints out of his home garage, again, you got what you paid for.

But, if you paid several thousand dollars for a professional to do the job in a well equipped facility, I'd be smokin pi$$ed! In this case, I would expect the paint shop to cover the complete tear down, strip, prime, paint, new roof, reassembly.

Their lack of skill and knowledge or use of poor quality materials is not your problem. Of course, it could be that the guy is inncocent and the material he used was defective unbeknownst to him.

Either way, you don't need or deserve these headaches. Good luck.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

It was a body shop here in town, and like I said, I had just painted it before I took it to him. So there was minimal prep work to do, all the major body work had already been done. I gave him the products that I had used. I had used a single stage paint and he used a base coat clear coat. He said all he was going to have to do was mask, wet sand and paint. Car had no interior, windows or any chrome on it. He charged me $1,500.00 which I thought was fair. But if I ask for a refund and take it to another shop now they`re sure as heck going to charge more then that to fix it. I don`t mind having to do all the work again with the chrome and bumpers and windows, or buying another top, wish I didn`t have to, sh!t happens~life sux, I just want him to fix the paint.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

WOW Rukee, that sucks!

Did he spray the base coat over the single stage that you sprayed on? I believe I remember you saying the original paint came from NAPA which is actually Sherwin Williams. What brand was the Base Coat and clear coat?

I'll have my painter look at these pictures and get his input, he's been painting for 40 years.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

05GTO said:


> WOW Rukee, that sucks!
> 
> Did he spray the base coat over the single stage that you sprayed on? I believe I remember you saying the original paint came from NAPA which is actually Sherwin Williams. What brand was the Base Coat and clear coat?
> 
> I'll have my painter look at these pictures and get his input, he's been painting for 40 years.


I believe he did spray it over the single stage. Yes I used Sherwin Williams paint. I don`t know what he used and all his bill says is "paint and materials $561.04", then 6hrs to' repair imperfections', and 11hrs for 'mask, paint complete'.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Rukee, as a fellow Blue Charcoal '65 guy, my heart goes out to you. As stated, the painter should pay to pull the trim, the top, strip the car, the whole thing. I would get an estimate at a reputable painter's, and take the guy to court if he didn't offer to pay. In California, the cost of fixing your car would be in excess of 5k. That said, it is clearly a case of incompatible materials: the solvents in the base coat are still evaporating, and trashing the top coat. I've seen this happen before, with laquer based paints and enamel based paints used together. Looks to me like the painter used the WRONG STUFF. Again, I"M pissed off looking at your car. But, it can be fixed, so take heart. Good luck, and keep us posted. Take care..........
Jeff


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

That blows!! and summer is coming too! Hope you can get 'er fixed right. Good luck.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

If you were satisfied with the job before the "reaction", I would find out why this occurred, and give the shop that did the job a chance to make things right. The bottom line is: you want a 1965 GTO that looks like you want it to look. The guy who screwed up (probably by accident), more likely than not, dosesn't want a bad rep, legal trouble, etc........See what he will do for you. 
A kinder,Gentler,
E the A


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Good advice animal:agree


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

He said he can get it in in a week and a half or so. And I do plan on him fixing it. I told him if he used the wrong products that`s not my problem. And added if I used the wrong products on a customers car I would have to make it right. If I put motor oil in the radiator and contaminated the cooling system, I`d have to flush it all out, refill it and not charge the customer for that no matter what the cost of my screw up, and I expect him and his paint reps to take care of this.
The paint is also changing, the rippling has calmed down some. It seems to change by the minute getting worse in some spots, and some really bad spots almost smoothing out again. You can almost use your finger and smooth out the ripples, but not quite. I almost have it ready to take back there, I got the interior out, the chrome and emblems off, I just need to change the wheels around and it`ll be ready to go.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Rukee: Sounds like your Goat is REALLY a snake and is just shedding it's skin! LOL! I like Eric's statement about giving the guy the opportunity to fix the car. Judging by the way the car looked last week, he did a great job. It looks like a materials mix-up. Good luck with the repaint, and take care. 
Jeff


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

It seems to be heaviest in the left rear quarter and gets progressively better as you go around the car to the right rear. I wonder if it could be as simple as his gun was contaminated or not cleaned out properly? It`s also calmed down a ton, you can still see it but it`s not as bad as in the pics anymore. I have all the chrome off sept the windshield, back glass trim, the vinyl top chrome, and the drip rails. I don`t have the right tools. :/


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

Rukee said:


> It seems to be heaviest in the left rear quarter and gets progressively better as you go around the car to the right rear. I wonder if it could be as simple as his gun was contaminated or not cleaned out properly? It`s also calmed down a ton, you can still see it but it`s not as bad as in the pics anymore. I have all the chrome off sept the windshield, back glass trim, the vinyl top chrome, and the drip rails. I don`t have the right tools. :/


I'm with Eric. Give the original painter another chance, but I would treat him like a doctor treating a loved one. What I mean is that you should be able to tell him what the right paint, solvent, undercoat, etc. is before he starts the job so that you can ensure that the right materials are used. Of course this is not life and death, but spring is just around the corner. Good luck.


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## Showgoat67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Rukee,

Well i had told you when you painted the car not everyone can do it and also he should of known not to mix spraying materials if he is a professional painter.You should never mix materials especially if you use junk paint the first time.Sherwin Williams paint is remanufactured house paint into auto paint.It is garbage.You get when you pay for if you use PPG or Dupont or House of Kolor it will give you a overall better job and you get what you pay for.It is like buying a tool from habor freight for $5 and buying a tool from snap on for $50 for the same tool the snap on tool is better quality and will last longer same with paint materials.When he repaints make sure you use good stuff cause the job you get is as only as good as the materials you use.When you painted the car yourself the first time we had this talk and i told you the same thing then.It is not to be mean or anything just giving you some advice.I paint cars i know what i am talking about.

showgoat67


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I was happy with the paint job I did, I just ran out of paint, it was light in a few spots. 
And he IS a professional, he`s owned a shop in town here since he bought it from his dad years ago. I asked him to just use the paint I did, but he insisted on using his own.


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## Tri-Power (Jan 10, 2008)

wow, that sucks! I'm glad he's going to try to make it right. Reputation is a painters livelihood my painter often has people come look at my car to see what kind of work he does. If word gets around he is not trustworthy, his shop will probabbly go down the tubes. I'm sure he'll try his best to make things right. Good luck.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I just came from the painter`s again, I stopped in just to say I had the car ready to come in with all the stuff off it. He said he was waiting for the paint rep to return his call, but he was still planning on taking care of it. I called the Upholstery shop who did the vinyl top and explained to him what was going on. He had originally charged me $325 to install the top and locate(mount) the trim moldings, he said he felt bad for me and would do another top for $250.00. If all it costs me is my time and 250 to get this mess straightened out, I`d be happy.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

WTF do I do now??
The paint on the top of the left rear quarter has all but completely smoothed out and you can barely see anything at all there now. yesterday while it was sitting outside, another spot on the right front fender cropped up, and then in a couple hours went away completely. Is it possible the paint may calm down on it`s own?? Or will it not be attached to the paint underneath and may fly off the car while I`m driving?? I`m afraid if I leave it, spots may blow up while I`m at a car show or somethin. What do I say if the painter says it`s fine now? :/


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## Tri-Power (Jan 10, 2008)

If he claims "its fine now" show him the pictures again and tell him your car randomly breaks out in hives and unless he has an epi-pen for your car he still needs to do somthing about it. Thats really weird it goes away and comes back, i'd say that you'd be right in thinking there might be some serious adhesion problems even after it "looks" normal, but what do i know im neither a chemist nor painter.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

It's not fine.....I doubt he will say it is...........DO IT OVER.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Rukee said:


> I believe he did spray it over the single stage. Yes I used Sherwin Williams paint. I don`t know what he used and all his bill says is "paint and materials $561.04", then 6hrs to' repair imperfections', and 11hrs for 'mask, paint complete'.


My bad, the paint I used was crossfire brand martin senour paint from NAPA.


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## t0ny (Oct 5, 2005)

My '68 did that when I used cheap single-stage lacquer. It's my guess the paint was too old. Sanded for days trying to get it back off, got impatient and used a solvent-based paint remover. When it was all said and done, I spent more money trying to do it the cheap way instead of the right way.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Rukee, How is the paint situation doing?? E


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I still have the car in peices waiting. The guy is still giving me the run around. He claims he`s waiting to hear back from the paint reps. And the paint rep is supposed to be going to his shop today, so I told him to bring the rep over and see the paint for himself, and let me talk to the guy. He didn`t seem to keen on that.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Rukee,

I talked to my painter and he offered his opinion, Martin Senour paint is actually Sherwin Williams private labeled for NAPA. 

When he sprays S.W. single stage he will color sand to break the surface and allow the vapors to escape for a few days. S.W. is best applied at 60 + degrees and using the proper activator. 

He says you had a chemical reaction with the Vapors of the first paint, the base coat and the clear coat.

Your painter should have contacted his rep prior to spraying and he is at fault.

Good luck,


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

05GTO said:


> Rukee,
> 
> I talked to my painter and he offered his opinion, Martin Senour paint is actually Sherwin Williams private labeled for NAPA.
> 
> ...


Tell him 'Thanks for the info', and one more if you could ask him....what`s the best and correct way to fix this chemical reaction?


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## VettenGoat (Jun 19, 2007)

Rukee
That is really a tough break, but I think anyone seriously into cars has been into a situation like this at one time or another. No one can fully advise you on a best course; only you know what kind of relationship you have with the painter. On the surface, I am inclined to agree with Blondie67 and say, give the guy a chance to correct his mistake.

I went through a similar process with my Vette and the "orignal lacquer" vs. the newer urethane based paints argument. NCRS be damned, I opted to go with modernity and had the car shot with Urethane. Best move I ever made as it is damn near bulletproof. The C2s were prone to having brake fluid leech into the fiberglass. Mine did too, but instead of blistering and cracking like lacquer, the Urethane remained pliant enough to contain the contamination. Strongly suggest you stay with and work with the guy throughout the process (as much as your work would allow) and ensure it is throughly sanded down. Paint is a mecahnical bond and will only be as good as the surface to which it is adhereing. Among the Urethane paints, PPG is the most recommended, DuPont is fair but too pricey. The Urethane can be color sanded and clear coated just like lacquer but will outlast lacquer by a decade. (If you look at my picture, the paint on that Corvette is 20 years old.)

BTW, I'd let your painter know about the forum. Never underestimate the value of the motorhead network and the need to keep a good reputation.

Good luck Pal, keep us advised//Mike


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Still waiting for the guy to contact me on when to get the car back in. I took a video of the paint, and in the sun it`s difficult to see the damage. Not mentioned until now is the incredible amount of dirt that is in the paint which also is hard to see in the dirrect sunlight. He has reassured me several times that the dirt is not an issue. I asked even if he wet sands and reclears the car, the dirt is in and under the color coat so clear will just make the surface smooth, not get rid of the dirt. Sorry for the crappy video, had to upload it to youtube and the quality isn`t what it use to be. It`s also hard to watch sometimes as the focus goes in and out getting close to the paint. The surface of the paint also comes accost strange on camera, like it`s not even clear coated or something, it looks verry rough. Anyway sorry it`s so long and jittery in spots, enjoy, or not.
YouTube - Bad-Paint


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## Tri-Power (Jan 10, 2008)

Wow, very good documentation. I'd be soo pissed. My painter had a fly sneak into his booth when he was doing my cowl. It landed on it right after he finished spraying, and it left its leg in the wet paint. He sanded and repainted the entire piece. No wonder there is a chemical reaction with all of the contaminants/dirt in the paint, he obviously did not prep it well, or paint it in a controlled environment. It's really a shame to see somebody put so much time, effort, and money into a car like this then have a shoddy paint job. Best of luck getting it sorted out.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The dirt pisses me off more then the chemical reaction. It`s unfortunate that he used the wrong products and it`s breaking out, maybe that could have been avoided, maybe it couldn`t but the dirt could have been avoided had he prep`d it right. He charged me 6 hours to fix imperfections, and then 11 hours to prep and paint. If he spent 11hrs prep`ing it wouldn`t look like it does. One of his families friends stopped over yesterday, I`m building him a 440 for his Polara convert and he looked it over. He`s like no doubt the guy needs to 'Man Up' and take care of it. If it were me and that was my sh!tty paint job I did, I`d wanna take care of it as quick as possable so as few of people has possable would witness the bad job that was done. I told his freind, if I have to take it some place else to get it fixxed, not only will I be forced to sue him for my money back, but I`d be forced to sue for any and all costs it takes to fix his **** up! He`d be far better off to just repaint it, like he should.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agreeHe would be so foolish not too.


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

Rukee said:


> The dirt pisses me off more then the chemical reaction. It`s unfortunate that he used the wrong products and it`s breaking out, maybe that could have been avoided, maybe it couldn`t but the dirt could have been avoided had he prep`d it right. He charged me 6 hours to fix imperfections, and then 11 hours to prep and paint. If he spent 11hrs prep`ing it wouldn`t look like it does. One of his families friends stopped over yesterday, I`m building him a 440 for his Polara convert and he looked it over. He`s like no doubt the guy needs to 'Man Up' and take care of it. If it were me and that was my sh!tty paint job I did, I`d wanna take care of it as quick as possable so as few of people has possable would witness the bad job that was done. I told his freind, if I have to take it some place else to get it fixxed, not only will I be forced to sue him for my money back, but I`d be forced to sue for any and all costs it takes to fix his **** up! He`d be far better off to just repaint it, like he should.



Good luck -- hopefully this painter is not an A-hole and will correct the problems. The video in some spots really shows the "rippled" chemical reaction and some really bad spots with the bubbling.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

ppurfield001 said:


> Good luck -- hopefully this painter is not an A-hole and will correct the problems. The video in some spots really shows the "rippled" chemical reaction and some really bad spots with the bubbling.


I`m glad I took the pics and video cause the rippling comes and goes soo much. Now today that section on the left rear is almost unnoticeable. The dirt too just doesn`t come across on camera, but looking at the video, any specs of 'pure white' is little pieces of dirt. The metal flake is silver. If you watch for just the white flecks you can see how many there are.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

It looks like a chemical stripper was used prior to painting the car, and not neutralized/rinsed off properly. I hate to say it, but if if were mine, I would strip it all the way down to bare metal and start over. No way would I just sand it down and reshoot. I painted my '67 17 years ago in a garage without a booth, and had nowhere NEAR that kind of dust/dirt in the paint. Are you sure the painter was qualified/equipped to do the job?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

geeteeohguy said:


> It looks like a chemical stripper was used prior to painting the car, and not neutralized/rinsed off properly. I hate to say it, but if if were mine, I would strip it all the way down to bare metal and start over. No way would I just sand it down and reshoot. I painted my '67 17 years ago in a garage without a booth, and had nowhere NEAR that kind of dust/dirt in the paint. Are you sure the painter was qualified/equipped to do the job?


No stripper was used, the paint he sprayed is reacting with the paint I sprayed. He should have used the same paint I did, or sealed my paint with a primer or whatever before spraying his. And yes, he`s already stated it has to go back to bare metal to be fixed right. He`s supposed to be qualified, he`s had a shop here in town for decades. When I asked about the dirt, I said don`t you have a spray booth?? Yea he says, but I didn`t have it in there.  Why the f*** not?!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

He`s gunna screw me over, I can tell already. He was supposed to call on Wednesday and didn`t, so I call today and he`s him-haw`in around saying there isn`t any problem with his paint, that it`s the paint I put on, he`s saying I didn`t mix it right or didn`t use hardener which I did. So I reminded him again that I asked originally that he use the same paint I did and that he then insisted he used his own, and asked if he had used the same as I did would there still be the chemical reaction? He couldn`t answer. 
So I said put the reaction aside and what about the huge amount of dirt?? If he had spent 11hrs prep`ing then there wouldn`t be so much dirt and he should take care of that. He jumps all over me, "I did you a favor, and I have over 20hrs in "body work" before I painted it"
I said 20hrs of 'body work'? I have close up pics of both sides after I painted it and there`s no way there was any body work needed to be done, let alone 20hrs worth. And even so, do you top off 20hrs worth of work with a dirty paint job?
I asked to meet with his 'paint reps' on monday when they stop by his shop. He`s supposed to call me, I`m gunna stop by there after lunch if I don`t hear from him, but I know he`s gunna stiff me.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Well, I don`t believe it, he called me tonight! I`ve been over to his shop a bunch of times over the last few days (after his paint rep guy 'didn`t show up' on monday) I`ve been trying to get the names and numbers of his paint rep guys and have them to meet with at the same time as the senior martin paint rep guy from NAPA to clear up exactly what happened and who`s at fault. Today`s was the first I told him I wanted to coordinate all the reps to meet at once to look at the car. He wouldn`t give me the info but did set the meeting to be on Thursday at 1:00, but he called tonight and said that after much stress on his end he`s going to write up an agreement to have him redue the paint. That he`s concerned about an unhappy customer and wants to make it right. I told him I thought that was nice and I`d be happy to see any agreement he wants to present. He said it would lay out what would happen and give a time line. It just better have language about no dirt in the paint!
I don`t know if it was threatening with the paint reps meeting together at the car, or the dozens of people I`ve been showing the car to and it got back to him somehow, I don`t care, just as long as he takes care of it.....before summer!


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

Rukee said:


> Well, I don`t believe it, he called me tonight! I`ve been over to his shop a bunch of times over the last few days (after his paint rep guy 'didn`t show up' on monday) I`ve been trying to get the names and numbers of his paint rep guys and have them to meet with at the same time as the senior martin paint rep guy from NAPA to clear up exactly what happened and who`s at fault. Today`s was the first I told him I wanted to coordinate all the reps to meet at once to look at the car. He wouldn`t give me the info but did set the meeting to be on Thursday at 1:00, but he called tonight and said that after much stress on his end he`s going to write up an agreement to have him redue the paint. That he`s concerned about an unhappy customer and wants to make it right. I told him I thought that was nice and I`d be happy to see any agreement he wants to present. He said it would lay out what would happen and give a time line. It just better have language about no dirt in the paint!
> I don`t know if it was threatening with the paint reps meeting together at the car, or the dozens of people I`ve been showing the car to and it got back to him somehow, I don`t care, just as long as he takes care of it.....before summer!



Good luck -- hope your repainting is done properly in plenty of time for summer cruising.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

It would be good if he "did the right thing" and soon....keep after him....the squeaky wheel gets the oil.....it would suck if you put a sign on your car that said "QUALITY WORK NOT DONE HERE" and parked in front of his shop........I am dreading the day I need paint and body work....toooo many variables involved!!!!!! Eric :confused


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## 70455goat (Nov 5, 2007)

PDQ GTO said:


> Looks like orange peal to me. Had the same thing on my 85 GT. I would not go back to your painter...
> 
> Orange peel is a certain kind of texture that may develop on painted surfaces. The texture resembles the bumpy surface of the skin of an orange (fruit) hence the name.
> 
> ...



That is not orange peel. I agree with Eric, it is a chemical reaction between the primer and paint ,and it ain't going to be fixed by wet sanding. It will have to be completely stirpped and repainted. Orange peel will be observed right after the car gets painted.


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## 70455goat (Nov 5, 2007)

Wing_Nut said:


> Wow! That sucks.
> 
> You've already answered one key question. The paint job is 3.5 months old. One thing you didn't mention was the price you paid. Another as who did the job.
> 
> ...


I disagree......even Earl Sheib does a better job than this!!!!!!


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## 70455goat (Nov 5, 2007)

Rukee said:


> It was a body shop here in town, and like I said, I had just painted it before I took it to him. So there was minimal prep work to do, all the major body work had already been done. I gave him the products that I had used. I had used a single stage paint and he used a base coat clear coat. He said all he was going to have to do was mask, wet sand and paint. Car had no interior, windows or any chrome on it. He charged me $1,500.00 which I thought was fair. But if I ask for a refund and take it to another shop now they`re sure as heck going to charge more then that to fix it. I don`t mind having to do all the work again with the chrome and bumpers and windows, or buying another top, wish I didn`t have to, sh!t happens~life sux, I just want him to fix the paint.


I am a little confused. You said you gave him the products you had used???? The products that was used the first time or the second time? If you provided the products, the body shop will probably try to use that against you and hold you responsible for any problems


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

Man that stuff looks weird. I couldnt really help you I dont understand much about it but Goodluck with everything.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

70455goat said:


> I am a little confused. You said you gave him the products you had used???? The products that was used the first time or the second time? If you provided the products, the body shop will probably try to use that against you and hold you responsible for any problems


I gave him the products I painted the car with, he then used his own products to paint it the second time. Now today there is no chemical reaction going on at all, and all the rippling is almost totally unnoticeable. He`s supposed to bring the agreement over today, we`ll see what it says.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

GOOG LUCK.....maybe today will get the problem resolved!! e


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The NAPA paint rep was just here to look at the car. He`s said he`s seen this a few times in the last year. It`s happened on hail damaged cars that the shops try to get hammered out too quickly. He said it`s caused from putting the base coat on too heavy and then covering with the clear coat before the base coat cures. He`s saying the clear coat still is not hard as he could leave his thumb print into the paint. He said if I leave this way the clear coat will get hazed or smokey in a couple years, or may come off before that. He suggested media blasting back to bare metal. Still waiting for the agreement from the painter.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I got the agreement, and it looks good, saying he will take it back to bare metal, prime, paint, clear coat, wet sand and polish as needed to acquire industry standard acceptable and comparable for the sum paid of $1488.55 which is what I originally paid. It won`t cost me anything from him, he`s not responsible for the chrome, interior, vinyl top, over spray, dust, rubbing compound mess, etc. He agrees to keep the car inside while he has it and to have it for 30 days with progress reports every friday afternoon. No mention of a date when it`s going to be done, but does say in one part he needs 30 days to complete, and in another he states' I`ll need four verry productive weeks to complete the GTO in 30 days'. So does that mean it`s going to be done in 30 days? Or it`s going to take AT LEAST 30 days and he`s going to blow me off all summer?
It all looks good, sept for the language which states "I, his name, will repair the GTO to industry standard acceptable and comparable to the payment received for the initial repair of $1488.65." and the fact there is no final finish date besides the implied 30 days. What do you guys think?


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

Well for one thing, you can't beat the price. Around here its $1500 just to media blast it to bare metal. I feel like I am looking into a time capsule. A decent paint job these days runs around 10k.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

SANDU002 said:


> Well for one thing, you can't beat the price. Around here its $1500 just to media blast it to bare metal. I feel like I am looking into a time capsule. A decent paint job these days runs around 10k.


He had quoted me at least 10k+ to restore it, which is why I did the restoration myself.
All he did was paint. I had already done the restoration and painted it just before he did. He said all he was going to have to do was sand and paint it. He charged me 6 hrs to fix imperfections, and 11 hrs to prep and paint, plus materials, came to 1488, which I thought was more then fair.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

It sounds to me like he is going to do the work......the 4 very productive weeks thing is there for "unforseen circumstances"...like if he gets swamped with "paying jobs".......I doubt that you will do much better. Even if you ended up in small claims court, he would be given a "reasonable amount of time" to make things right.....AT least you get a stripped to bare metal job....I would ask him if he will be done by May 20 th or so...and run with it!!! Eric :cheers


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

In my opinion if taken to metal it should be primed with a good DTM gloss primer, blocked, wiped, blocked again, primed again if needed, wiped again if needed, block with 320, sealed with a color sealer/primer, inspect for imperfections, 3 coats base coat, 3 coats clear coat, wet sand with 1000 grit and then 3000 grit and polish.

My materials not including what I paid the painter(s) was alot more than what you paid for your entire paint job.

Good luck,


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

05GTO said:


> In my opinion if taken to metal it should be primed with a good DTM gloss primer, blocked, wiped, blocked again, primed again if needed, wiped again if needed, block with 320, sealed with a color sealer/primer, inspect for imperfections, 3 coats base coat, 3 coats clear coat, wet sand with 1000 grit and then 3000 grit and polish.
> 
> My materials not including what I paid the painter(s) was alot more than what you paid for your entire paint job.
> 
> Good luck,


I don`t expect it to be perfect, and I didn`t pay for a perfect job to begin with. I just want a nice paint job I won`t be embarrassed to take to a car show or two and would like it to last as long as the last paint job did.
I took back the agreement, there was a couple typos and asked he add that he will paint the car in his booth and that the paint will be relatively free from dirt. He`s supposed to have it back to me soon.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Yaaay! I signed the agreement and sent the GTO over this morning. In 30 days I should have my baby back! :cheers


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Rukee said:


> Yaaay! I signed the agreement and sent the GTO over this morning. In 30 days I should have my baby back! :cheers


Is the race to finish back on?


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

Rukee said:


> Yaaay! I signed the agreement and sent the GTO over this morning. In 30 days I should have my baby back! :cheers


Congrats:cheers When you get her all put back together you'll have to post some new pics!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

05GTO said:


> Is the race to finish back on?


So then the race is to put it together, back apart, and back together agian? :willy:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

According to the agreement, I can`t go over there or call him sept on friday afternoons, which I missed this week, I was out of town for a bit. A friend went over to see the car and he said the paint was coming off in huge pieces. He said one piece was like 2' x 3', he was taking the paint off with nothing but a razor blade and the paint was just coming right off. Had he not agreed to redue it, the paint probably would have come off just driving down the road! He had almost the whole car stripped down in just a couple days. If that`s the case, he may have it done before the 30 days.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I went over there yesterday to check on it every friday like agreed. I believe the guy is going to do a shady job again. I swear he only worked on the car a few hours with a razor blade to peal the top layer off the car when I looked at it last week, now this week it looks like he just quickly sprayed his primer right over what was left without any prep work. I can`t believe this shop, all the old paint is laying all over the floor, dirt and dust everywhere and he`s spraying in that environment. The agreement states he would take it down to bare metal, but he only took it down to my primer. I pointed out a couple spots were it looks like it`s reacting again through the sealer primer he sprayed. Not too thrilled right now.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Did you ask him why he isn't doing the right thing????? NIP IT IN THE BUD!! Let him know that you want a good job and nothing else will cut it.....other wise take your car and get a refund!!!!!!!!!! :willy:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Yesterday was the end of the 30 days and I just came from there looking at the car. He`s got it all done and I`ve called the tow truck. It looks alot better, not perfect, but alot lot better. I`ll post some pictures after I get the chrome and interior back on. Still a couple of spots of dirt, but I didn`t pay for a perfect paint job, and it does have tons tons less dirt then the first time he did it. Let the assembling begin!


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## Muscle car fan (May 15, 2008)

arty:arty:You'r original story didn't mention if they had used a sealer primer before they painted it the first time. Or if they just sanded and painted over your paint, which is what it sounds like what happened. As far as stripping the car down to bare metal, that would require redoing any filler work that was done. I didn't read you're post until today. To repair the car would mean taking off as much of the paint as possible, probably down to at least your primer, letting the thing sit so the surfface can "breath" or let any trapped solvents escape. Then after a good wet sanding with 400 grit, a good couple coats of sealer primer and a week to let the solvents escape from the sealer followed by more wet block sanding with 400 or 600. Then a couple coats of high build primer with a lot more block sanding with 600. Then 3 coats base and 3 coats clear. Then after about a week to cure, a good color sanding and pollish. However, if they had just sanded it and used your single stage paint it probably would have been ok, you didn't mention how much time passed after you painted it and took it into the shop. The fact they charged less than $600.00 for material tells me they used cheap material, as it is very easy to pay over $1000.00 for just paint, let alone all the other materials required to paint a car. I wish you luck, cause you have an awesome car.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I`m thinking he just painted over my single stage paint and didn`t seal it. The new paint looks alot better, still full of dirt though, but there are smaller pieces then before. The first paint job it looked great till you got about 20' away, then you could see the crap, now it looks great till you get about 1-2 feet from the car, then you can see them. I don`t know how the **** a paint shop can paint cars and not be able to get a clean paint job. It would be like me building engines and not be able to get any to run on all 8 cylinders no matter how many I build .
The Parts Place sent me the wrong beltline moldings so I`m at a stand still on putting the car together, but I`ll post some pics later today.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

A friend of mine who has a `69 GTO says I`m being too picky, but I dunno...there`s no doubt that it`s full of specs, but honestly, walking around the car at 2 to 3 feet away and you can`t see anything, it does look real sweet. And in the direct sunlight you can`t see a thing at any distance. Still have the beltline moldings, side windows, door panels, vinyl top to do yet, waiting on parts. Hopefully in a week or two...
The car seems like it`s half the size it use to be, when it was white it looked like a boat, now it seems small. Also looove the color changing properties of the metalic paint, sometimes it looks black while some parts of the car can look silvery at the same time, it`s awesome! Some pics.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

Hard to see any defects from the Pics. you posted, but I am sure seeing her in person is different. Regardless, that is one MEAN looking classic GTO…:cheerscheers


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I really wasn`t trying to show any defects. The last two days I`ve spent wet sanding and hand polishing, it looks awesome!! Most all of the dirt is gone and the finish looks extremely sweet. I have some work to do this morning, but will try to get some more pics up today.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The polishing is really paying off, the finish is looking increadable! The dirt that was there is all but gone, and even when I know were it is and look for it, I really have to look hard. At this point I`m going to say I`m happy with the second job he did. Again, I really love the way the paint plays with the light, it gives all kinds of color, from silver to almost a violet, to blue to black, and it changes as you walk around the car. Verry cool!
Just a couple more to gloat. 
























Can`t wait to get the top on and the beltline moldings and doors together so I can take it for a drive!


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

Rukee – The difference is noticeable, very much so. Wet sanding doe’s wonders of you have the patience, proper grit, technique and pressure.

I love being able to actually see the firewall on the Classic GTO’s, as opposed to spaghetti…:cool


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

Sweet ride, and congrats on getting it taken care of. I know how bad bodyshops are. Something as easy a rolling a fender can turn into a nightmare of biblical proportions.

I guess I'm glad to see someone finally get some decent work done. lol.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks guys! I forgot to add; there`s no wax on that thing! It`s just the polished paint. :cool


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

Rukee said:


> Thanks guys! I forgot to add; there`s no wax on that thing! It`s just the polished paint. :cool


Lookin' good, Rukee.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

WOW!!! She is looking sweeet!!!! Great Job my friend!!! This bud is for you!!:cheers


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

NJgoat said:


> WOW!!! She is looking sweeet!!!! Great Job my friend!!! This bud is for you!!:cheers


Thanks NJgoat!
I can`t stop polishing!!! Someone stop me!! I`ve been around the car twice more after those pics and am making another round. On the third bottle of Race Glaze now, and every time around really seems to make a big difference. As long as it keeps getting better I can`t put the rags down!!!:willy::willy::willy::willy:


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

Oh why stop you, your having fun! :lol: :lol:

Looks GREAT Rukee! Don't stop the waxin'!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Polishing,  there`s no wax on there. Can`t wax it for 30 days to allow the paint to cure and the solvents to evaporate. Race Glaze is like a breathable rubbing compound, not a wax. Can`t wait till I can get some wax on there!


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

It really looks great and just in time for summer.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks 05GTO, if your `66 wasn`t buffed out at the body shop I`d consider the race glaze stuff, it`s kinda slow going, but it does get results. I did another two laps around the car, I`ll post just 1 more pic till I get the top put on.


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## wytnyt (May 17, 2008)

rukee
ive seen similar problems many times in the past like this
some are from having lacquer as a bas and even when sanded dowwn it looks ok to shoot over but when new paint hits the surface it actually melts the old paint,,thats where you get most of your adhesion at.
this also will open up any imperfections in the underlying material.
did you use a paint that had a hardener/catalyst with it?
if not the first coats take much longer to cure
also do you know if there was a good quality sealer added before painting?
this can be a necessity especially if the older paint is of a lower or degraded quality as it seals and helps to keep your sanded finish for new paint
i think the reason you see it change and almost go away is the sun is heating the metal ,,,thus causing it to lift away from prior coats.
one other possibility is if a prep cleaner was used prior to painting,,it will actually leave almost a oily residue on the surface causing the paint to go crazy in the wet areas,,,almost like you see streaks like as if you brush painted your car
at any rate the only way is to remove and repaint but i would still make sure a good sealer is used and especially a paint with a hardener / catalyst is used
dont do like i did and painted single stage with no hardener and then got radiator fluid spilled on it from a overhead several months after painting it and it still left little rings in my paint
good luck


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

This chemical reaction had nothing to do with old paint. It was cause by the painter putting the base coat on too thick and then covering with the clear before the base coat flashed. He rushed the job and it bit him in the ass. That`s all.


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