# water pump & rockers, 2 questions



## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

1) Driving my car today it was running really hot so I came home waited for the engine to cool a bit turned on the engine and opened the radiator cap the fluid would only run when the RPMs were elevated, does it mean the water pump is bad?When driving I did notice the higher RPMs the temp would drop a little.
2)When I shut it off the passenger side valve cover has a loud ticking noise like every 2 seconds, I assume one of the rockers is hitting the valve cover. I put my hand on the valve cover and could feel it.
I cant remove the valve cover as the prior owner installed 12 point screws with a clip and allen screw in it. Ive never seen anything like it, 8 of them, Ive tried to figure if its SAE or MM but neither seem to fit, the allen screw at least.
Im looking for 12 point sockets, if any of you have dealt with this I'd appreciate your in put.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Sounds like "Star' type heads. Very common.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Those star 12 point sockets are easy to find....you need some don’t strip them by using Allen heads....the flow is only slight at idle. Check what you know is wrong under that valve cover. And reasses your cooling system. At a minimum you might need a flush and new hoses and thermostat. But if you go to all that trouble a fresh water pump is a good idea as well....


A bad cooling system will burn up a good engine. So get it right. You can do it, and it should last for many years


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> 1) Driving my car today it was running really hot so I came home waited for the engine to cool a bit turned on the engine and opened the radiator cap the fluid would only run when the RPMs were elevated, does it mean the water pump is bad?When driving I did notice the higher RPMs the temp would drop a little.
> 2)When I shut it off the passenger side valve cover has a loud ticking noise like every 2 seconds, I assume one of the rockers is hitting the valve cover. I put my hand on the valve cover and could feel it.
> I cant remove the valve cover as the prior owner installed 12 point screws with a clip and allen screw in it. Ive never seen anything like it, 8 of them, Ive tried to figure if its SAE or MM but neither seem to fit, the allen screw at least.
> Im looking for 12 point sockets, if any of you have dealt with this I'd appreciate your in put.


That taping noise is wierding me out. It lasts about 30 seconds, tapping the valve cover. What would make a rocker or valve do that?


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## MidnightAuto (May 28, 2018)

Droach6498 said:


> That taping noise is wierding me out. It lasts about 30 seconds, tapping the valve cover. What would make a rocker or valve do that?


Rocker nut backed off perhaps


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

bent pushrod
skinny gasket
aftermarket rockers
lock nut backed off
aftermarket valve covers
broken oil dripper stand
pulled rocker stud


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

After initially ignoring an intermittent tapping sound from my BB El Camino this is what I found after I pulled the valve cover.










I replaced all the rocker nuts and readjusted the valves

It actually ran pretty good on seven cylinders.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Good fix...now work on that cooling system!


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

O52 said:


> After initially ignoring an intermittent tapping sound from my BB El Camino this is what I found after I pulled the valve cover.
> 
> View attachment 141299
> 
> ...


I was about to say that does not look Pontiac to me Ed


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Nope, but its a good example as to what you may find. Rockers do fall off occasionally if the nuts are reused to many times.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

O52 said:


> After initially ignoring an intermittent tapping sound from my BB El Camino this is what I found after I pulled the valve cover.
> 
> View attachment 141299
> 
> ...


wow thanks I hope to pull off my valve covers this week take a look. Its so wierd it ticks after the car is off like every second or two for about 30 seconds after stop. I do hear it when the motor on I didnt think much of it until this ticking noise so its more than likely what yours is a efd up rocker. Im thinking of rebuilding the heads. Got any idea what the cost to have them machined and rebuilt? I wonder if its just as much as buying new Edelbrocks?


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> wow thanks I hope to pull off my valve covers this week take a look. Its so wierd it ticks after the car is off like every second or two for about 30 seconds after stop. I do hear it when the motor on I didnt think much of it until this ticking noise so its more than likely what yours is a efd up rocker. Im thinking of rebuilding the heads. Got any idea what the cost to have them machined and rebuilt? I wonder if its just as much as buying new Edelbrocks?


If the ticking sound is heard AFTER you shut the engine off, it can’t be a lifter, or a loose rocker arm. It’s a metal part heat sinking. Probably the exhaust manifolds. Did your engine overheating problem get resolved?


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

SLSTEVE said:


> If the ticking sound is heard AFTER you shut the engine off, it can’t be a lifter, or a loose rocker arm. It’s a metal part heat sinking. Probably the exhaust manifolds. Did your engine overheating problem get resolved?


No I havent had time I hope to this weekend and next week. What ever it is its inside the valve cover as I can feel it hitting it from inside


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Droach6498 said:


> No I havent had time I hope to this weekend and next week. What ever it is its inside the valve cover as I can feel it hitting it from inside


Very often overlooked item on Pontiac engines that can cause overheating problems, is the pump impeller to divider plate clearance. That has to be right, otherwise nothing else you do will have much effect. 
As I recall, there are existing posts on here about how to set it. The search tool is your friend. 

Bear


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

BearGFR said:


> Very often overlooked item on Pontiac engines that can cause overheating problems, is the pump impeller to divider plate clearance. That has to be right, otherwise nothing else you do will have much effect.
> As I recall, there are existing posts on here about how to set it. The search tool is your friend.
> 
> Bear


I found a suggestion at Wallace Racing the guy shows how he pounds the impeller plate closer to the blades and it really helps and another guy solders attached blades to the pump blades and states how much better it works. IM thinking mine is the water ports are filling with rust. Not sure, but another reason to remove the heads.


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## Docpontiac (Mar 6, 2021)

Droach6498 said:


> 1) Driving my car today it was running really hot so I came home waited for the engine to cool a bit turned on the engine and opened the radiator cap the fluid would only run when the RPMs were elevated, does it mean the water pump is bad?When driving I did notice the higher RPMs the temp would drop a little.
> 2)When I shut it off the passenger side valve cover has a loud ticking noise like every 2 seconds, I assume one of the rockers is hitting the valve cover. I put my hand on the valve cover and could feel it.
> I cant remove the valve cover as the prior owner installed 12 point screws with a clip and allen screw in it. Ive never seen anything like it, 8 of them, Ive tried to figure if its SAE or MM but neither seem to fit, the allen screw at least.
> Im looking for 12 point sockets, if any of you have dealt with this I'd appreciate your in put.


1 Yes the water pump and frozen t stat is the first place I would first then radiator and clutch fan! I have also seen the hoses going flat! #2 Harbor Fright then replace with he. Bolts or cap screws both from Ace hardware!
Doc


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Docpontiac said:


> 1 Yes the water pump and frozen t stat is the first place I would first then radiator and clutch fan! I have also seen the hoses going flat! #2 Harbor Fright then replace with he. Bolts or cap screws both from Ace hardware!
> Doc


Well I removed the radiator water pump and it was rusted out like I thought. The timing chain cover heater hose connection the tip has rusted off, it works but it looks bad is it hard to remove & replace? I would like to replace all of it. I also removed the valve cover looking for the ticking noise. nothing is wrong no loose rockers or bolts. Dont know about this one. Heres some pics


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

This came out of my engine after sitting for 20 years


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

O52 said:


> This came out of my engine after sitting for 20 years
> 
> View attachment 141373
> 
> ...


Jeez I thought mine was bad. That would be some serious over heating issues.I did just read a article about pounding the water pump inserts so they are much closer to the fan says it really helps. Im definately going to try it. I ordered SS inserts, should helpthe rusting issues. But removing the valve covers I noticed all this crud of oil sludge. So I figure Im going to have to bite the bullet and take out the engine and redo it. $$$$ Never done anything close to it before.


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