# Which headers would you pick out of the 2?



## muddobberz (Jul 7, 2011)

Im looking at 2 sets from TSP

The first set are black painted

PaceSetter Black Painted Long Tube Headers, GTO

Second looks like the same but I think there "armor coated"

Pacesetter Long Tube Headers, 2004+ GTO

My concern is rust on the black painted. I live in Texas its dry as a raisin over here but rust is always a concern anywhere. Anyone have any input on these black painted and "armor coated?"

Also open to any other suggestions for headers/connection pipes, but i'm not dishing out 1k+ for kooks.


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## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

Neither. If you are going Pacesetters then get them coated by a 3rd party, Jet Hot or Swain Tech, inside and out. You can ask the vendor if they can get that done for you and how much.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm an old school guy, under $400 sounds really good for headers. Nothing is worth another grand, as long as those actually fit. Texas, you don't have to worry about rust, so go with the cheapy's, unless it is a show vehicle, performance is the same. The best header may pick up 10 HP, maybe more, depends on application and performance. Big headers may lose power if your HP doesn't match the app..


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## muddobberz (Jul 7, 2011)

so armor coating isnt the same??

and im running a n/a app.. biggest mod would probably be a cam and maybe some mild head work.


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## 06BLACKGTO64 (Oct 30, 2010)

the coating that pacesetter does themselves is only on the outside, so condensation on the inside can rust it from inside out. that is why Maryland speed offers the jet hot coated ones since they are inside and out. I just got a set of those and they later.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

If they're just painted, that'll peel off in the first couple thousand miles. Can't speak for Armor Coat, I've never had experience with that brand. I for sure wouldn't recommend painted.

But you can't go wrong with coated for $369... thats a pretty derned good price.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Coating is more for keeping heat in the header (performance) than preserving them. It is also impossible to keep the coating totally intact when installing, like at the collector connection and the coating will start flaking off mild steel headers. Rusting can be just as bad on the inside as on the outside due to condensation so an outside only coating is totally ineffective for rust and performance. If you're not going to keep the car for long then buy something cheap. If you plan on keeping it for a few years coated stainless headers of any brand are vastly preferable.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Svede, I hear you about quality, but when I go to a show, and a GTO or new school guy shows me a stock motor with $1400 headers, I just shake my head and say nice.. I went back old school, building muscle cars because FI gets expensive fast and isn't worth it for a few HP at a time. Cam and heads, gears, that's different. CAI's, MAFs, intakes, fuel rails, injectors and all that is just damn expensive. $1500 old school will get an intake, Carb, nitrous, gear, ignition and headers and build 200+ additional HP. I'm just saying, bang for the buck is cool, you don't have to spend all the money to be fast. My painted headers on my 90 454 SS still look good after a couple years with just header paint on them, they are discollored, but not rusted out.:cheers


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## muddobberz (Jul 7, 2011)

decisions decisions.. and yes i plan on keeping this car as long as I can.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

I'd rather do nothing than do something that's not quality. If you know you're going to keep it, buy quality; if you're not sure, do nothing because you'll never get the money back.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

jetstang said:


> Svede, I hear you about quality, but when I go to a show, and a GTO or new school guy shows me a stock motor with $1400 headers, I just shake my head and say nice.. I went back old school, building muscle cars because FI gets expensive fast and isn't worth it for a few HP at a time. Cam and heads, gears, that's different. CAI's, MAFs, intakes, fuel rails, injectors and all that is just damn expensive. $1500 old school will get an intake, Carb, nitrous, gear, ignition and headers and build 200+ additional HP. I'm just saying, bang for the buck is cool, you don't have to spend all the money to be fast. My painted headers on my 90 454 SS still look good after a couple years with just header paint on them, they are discollored, but not rusted out.:cheers


I've done everything except my cam as inexpensively as possible and still get the performance & longevity I want. One thing about these cars is almost everything is expensive. I realized that when I bought my first mod and paid $450 for a shifter. Ziggy is an expensive dame.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

I have seen tons of Pacesetters on all different types of cars here in the NE... I am yet to hear someoen say their headers rusted out and needed replaced. I would buy them.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> I have seen tons of Pacesetters on all different types of cars here in the NE... I am yet to hear someoen say their headers rusted out and needed replaced. I would buy them.


They've been out for our cars less than 2 years too tho.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

svede1212 said:


> They've been out for our cars less than 2 years too tho.


Yea, but they have been around on Camaros/TAs/Mustangs/imports ect and I haven't had anyone complain about having to really replace them.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

svede1212 said:


> I've done everything except my cam as inexpensively as possible and still get the performance & longevity I want. One thing about these cars is almost everything is expensive. I realized that when I bought my first mod and paid $450 for a shifter. Ziggy is an expensive dame.


I have a 99 Vette, haven't bought much for it, kept it, went old school and started building muscle cars that don't depreciate and buy most my stuff at swap meets. I paid $450 for my Billy Boats $1100 exhaust, still is too quiet, but I can always sell it and get my money back.
I'm just cheap, cant do the super expensive stuff to gain a couple HP. Who cares if the headers dump a couple extra degrees, you sit in the inside and have AC, and you have a CAI? WHat are you gaining? Is the car overheating? If your $200 headers rust out, buy another set, and have $400 in them, and still saved $1000. If I could buy uncoated headers for the vette for $300 I would buy them. Show car stuff is different.. $1000 will buy alot of other mods to your car..


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## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

Knock off from china can be cheaper. *duck*


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

jetstang said:


> I have a 99 Vette, haven't bought much for it, kept it, went old school and started building muscle cars that don't depreciate and buy most my stuff at swap meets. I paid $450 for my Billy Boats $1100 exhaust, still is too quiet, but I can always sell it and get my money back.
> I'm just cheap, cant do the super expensive stuff to gain a couple HP. Who cares if the headers dump a couple extra degrees, you sit in the inside and have AC, and you have a CAI? WHat are you gaining? Is the car overheating? If your $200 headers rust out, buy another set, and have $400 in them, and still saved $1000. If I could buy uncoated headers for the vette for $300 I would buy them. Show car stuff is different.. $1000 will buy alot of other mods to your car..


I understand that. I think the radiators are the same thing except people are shelling out $500-$600 for one when most don't need it. You can buy an OEM style one with a life time warranty for a tick over $200. 

BTW coated headers make quite a bit more than a couple of degrees difference in bay temps than uncoated. It's been measured that there is up to 100 degrees lower bay temps. They are a performance mod. Keeping heat in is a goal. The stock iron manifold keeps temps in really well but headers are heat radiators. Losing heat from the primaries causes a loss in gas velocity and scavenging from the shrinking volume as well as causing excessive engine bay temps. Spark plug boots are just one area that is greatly affected.

Some light reading

396 Stroker Motor - Install, Transplant - Third-Gen TPI - GM High-Tech

How Headers Work

Ceramic Coating - Types, Tech, Applications - Custom Classic Trucks

LS1GTO.com Forums - View Single Post - LTs - To coat or not to coat?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

svede1212 said:


> I understand that. I think the radiators are the same thing except people are shelling out $500-$600 for one when most don't need it. You can buy an OEM style one with a life time warranty for a tick over $200.
> 
> BTW coated headers make quite a bit more than a couple of degrees difference in bay temps than uncoated. ]


Radiators for LS-1s are a joke, my vette has a single core, looks like an ac condensor, Aluminum blocks disipate tons of heat.
I understand coating, I just don't understand $1400 a set headers.:cheers


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I got mine for under $900 back a long time ago. Even then I had to swallow hard but it did get the wife acclimated to the GTO's higher parts cost . I've done hundreds of logs even recently driving my car in 97* weather and I've never seen my ECTs over 200* even with a stock stat


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## Leahburk714 (Apr 22, 2010)

jpalamar said:


> I have seen tons of Pacesetters on all different types of cars here in the NE... I am yet to hear someoen say their headers rusted out and needed replaced. I would buy them.


I have the passetter jet coated headers on our Ram Hemi for a few years and have NO problems!


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