# Good Deal or Not????



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

I went to the nearest pontiac dealer today and test drove the 06' GTO for the first time and really liked it. I sat down with a salesman and he had the MSRP at 35,280 and then went to the sales manager and got the price down to 33,280 with some sort of reduction. Then I talked about a trade in with a 2001 BMW 325i with 33,600 miles on it so he went back to the manager and offered from 13,500-14,500 for the BMW and I eventually got it up to 15,000 for it, but I didnt have the BMW up there at the time so they said it could go up or down depending on condition. they said for a final with the trade-in we could walk away paying 18,280. BTW its a 2006 black on black A4 goat. Should I go ahead with this deal or look for more reduction. Thanks


----------



## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

i cant comment about the trade in price, but the price of the GTO sucks! i just bought an 05' with 4,000 miles and mint for 25,500!!! you can get a new one for 29,000 plus tax and fees. keep looking or play hard ball.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

so 29,000 with tax and dealer fees should come out to 30,740 + what ever the dealer fees are. so just above 31,000 im guessing. If anyone else has other input post. Thanks


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

That price doesn't sound too good. For one thing, where do they get an MSRP of 35,280 from? The highest price GTO as shipped is an A4 with 18", and that is 33,785. The only additional thing that can be added on top of that is the Sports Appearance Package, which is from what I understand added at the dealership. Unless the one you are looking at had the SAP, the quoted MSRP was too high.

So, does the one you are looking at have the SAP? Does it have 17" or 18"? 

Additionally, the out the door price of $18,xxx, was that including tax, title and liscence, and any extended warranty etc? Or is that just on the car itself? 

Taking a quick look at KBB and Edmunds, the proposed trade-in price of the BMW seems in range. However, those the accuracy of those tools varies by area, and I know nothing about the options on your car, condition etc. So, I am only saying that it doesn't seem they are giving you a really far off price for the trade in.

Another thing to think about is if you plan on financing through the dealership. Sometimes they'll try to give you a higher interest rate, so know what you qualify for first. 

What people pay for 06s varies a lot--what region you live in, how well that dealership is selling them, the particular salesperson, etc. Depending on different factors, paying between $29-32k (also depending on options and config) is reasonable to pay.


----------



## Kanding (May 29, 2006)

MSRP for a 06 M6 w/ 18" wheels is exactly $33180 (including destination charge). Will be about $600 higher for the A4 (-$695 M6, +$1300 gas guzzler tax), and subtract another $495 if you get the 17" wheels.

Dealer invoice for the same car above is $31257. Currently there is a $500 rebate also, so I'd think if you could get it for $30,757 you would be doing very well. 

Other possible negotiating points are a $939 dealer holdback (unadvertised, so dealer might deny it). There are also other special rebates available (GMS, GM in the driveway, conquest, etc.), but in general they cannot be taken cumulatively. 

I suspect if you wait longer, prices will lower, but the selection of cars also diminishes, and the cars that remain have more miles on them. 

I got my 06 with GMS for about $29,800 (not including tax, title).

Good luck!


----------



## GTR944 (Jun 6, 2006)

Mikes12985 said:


> I went to the nearest pontiac dealer today and test drove the 06' GTO for the first time and really liked it. I sat down with a salesman and he had the MSRP at 35,280 and then went to the sales manager and got the price down to 33,280 with some sort of reduction. Then I talked about a trade in with a 2001 BMW 325i with 33,600 miles on it so he went back to the manager and offered from 13,500-14,500 for the BMW and I eventually got it up to 15,000 for it, but I didnt have the BMW up there at the time so they said it could go up or down depending on condition. they said for a final with the trade-in we could walk away paying 18,280. BTW its a 2006 black on black A4 goat. Should I go ahead with this deal or look for more reduction. Thanks


Well here is what i was offered. I went today to test drive a new GTO after negotiating they were offering 30,373 - 2000 rebates =28373 plus taxes/fees. In the end the offer was 31,000 out the door. But i passed. 
The GTO was torrid red with black leather, 6m and 18" wheels.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

One huge thing that I just noticed and it may be really helpfull for me. when I got their at first the car looked like it was ready to be delivered and about to leave....so when I was checking it out from head to toe i realized that there was no window sticker anywhere so I couldnt see a MSRP quote so the guy instead of getting that 35,280 MSRP from the widow sticker, he got it from his sales manager. So I think they r trying to cheat me out by them making their own price. Now I was on pontiac.com and typed in my zip code for the nearest dealers and I went onto the dealer site and saw that in there GTO inventory they had the exact GTO I was in today for a MSRP of 33,690 which is about what it should be. I will be going back to the dealer and sitting down with the same people and showing them the MSRP online and then demanding that I see the exact sticker. I think I should get a real good deal after I rip the salesman that was trying to cheap me out :shutme. Anyone have any comments please post on what else I should do now that im in this situation. Thanks Mike.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

heres the url for the dealer im at and if u click on vehicles and then search new and its the 3 gto listed....black on black for 33,690......http://nitra.gmpsdealer.com/king-au...mePage_1&noc=1&overrideUrl=f_HomePage_1.chtml


----------



## RICKGTO (Mar 25, 2006)

You should be able to get the sticker down to 30k. If you don't leave, I am sure they have you phone number and they will call you to come back and get the car. Don't forget to check the trade-in of your car. Go to www.KBB.com to get the trade-in value.


----------



## TexasAggie (Mar 2, 2005)

NEVER disclose a trade until AFTER you agree on a final sales price for the GTO. Otherwise, all they'll do is play with numbers claiming they're giving you more $$ on the BMW trade, when in reality, you're paying a higher price for the GTO. Better still, sell the car yourself.


----------



## socal gto (Mar 10, 2006)

when I was shopping the dealer told me that pontiac lowered the price on the gto and all of them should be 32,295. I called other pontiac dealers at the time that weren't affiliated with each other and got the same response from all of them when asked about the sticker price.


----------



## gsxfanatic (Jun 4, 2006)

I paid $100 over what the dealer paid, this was while the "Red Tag" price event was going on. I asked the dealer to see a printout of what they paid and they were happy to show it to me.
On the other hand it took me 5 months before I decided to purchase my 05. I had looked at every GTO possible yet did not like the dash background, then I saw the midnight blue metallic with the black interior and silver dash... I just went from dealer to dealer seeing who was the most helpful in getting me into a GTO.
I've been satisfied since!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

socal gto said:


> when I was shopping the dealer told me that pontiac lowered the price on the gto and all of them should be 32,295. I called other pontiac dealers at the time that weren't affiliated with each other and got the same response from all of them when asked about the sticker price.


Thanks for that info it'll be a huge help for me.


----------



## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

MoreMoonShine said:


> NEVER disclose a trade until AFTER you agree on a final sales price for the GTO. Otherwise, all they'll do is play with numbers claiming they're giving you more $$ on the BMW trade, when in reality, you're paying a higher price for the GTO. Better still, sell the car yourself.


:agree :agree :agree 

At least 100% with the first part; otherwise you have no idea what you're paying for the car, and what you're getting for your trade.

Personally, I have gotten to an age where I just don't like selling a car myself, but I will if Im getting yanked around. It's a lot easier to bite off if the car isn't worth much.

It's all a learning process; I'm 53 and still learning.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

I forgot to mention that I live in south florida and I think the prices are deffinetly higher down here. Would that affect the price? Thanks Mike.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

noz34me said:


> Personally, I have gotten to an age where I just don't like selling a car myself, but I will if Im getting yanked around. It's a lot easier to bite off if the car isn't worth much.


Yep, selling your own doesn't always work for everybody or in all circumstances. *But* the seller should always know at least a value range for their car so that they don't get screwed.

Mike, when I bought my GTO, here's what I did:
I had a small notebook. In it I had written down the MSRP for the GTO in the 2 configurations I was looking at (M6 with 17" and M6 with 18"). I had the dealer's invoice price for these two configs written in. I had written down some common things to check for (like spacers in the suspension). I had written down the interest rate range I qualified for. I also had a car that I would trade in as long as I didn't get a terrible price for it, so I had written down the trade-in range and average selling range for my area. All this was written, so I couldn't forget. I think I had a few other tidbits written too, and some of the math like monthly payment I had roughly calculated ahead of time.

When I went in, I kept checking my book and making sure the values and such were close to what I had. If anything came up more than a reasonable margin off, I was going to refuse to go further.

Fortunately we were able to work something out that was acceptable. Anyway, I recommend that you get some numbers and write it down ahead of time, so that they don't try to hose you over.

Lastly, I would recommend looking at some other dealers if you can. First, you had the salesperson try telling you the MSRP was $35,xxx. Now, when I look on their website, they on you are looking at says $33,690 as MSRP. I could not find this exact one on Pontiac's website (the one you are looking at has 17" wheels and the only black/black at King I found on the Pontiac site had 18"). But, an A4 06 with 17" has an MSRP of $33,290. So, this dealership is still sticking an extra $400 in there and claiming it is part of the MSRP.

Here is an 06, black exterior red interior A4 with 17" rims at the same dealership:
http://www.pontiac.com/ws/nvlWindow...S/HomePage_1.chtml&vehicleModel=&map=&driveD=

That's from Pontiac directly. The pricing would be identical to the one you are looking at. But, where did the $400 go?


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Mikes12985 said:


> I forgot to mention that I live in south florida and I think the prices are deffinetly higher down here. Would that affect the price? Thanks Mike.


This may affect what dealers are asking for the cars. But, I'm in Texas, and dealers around me had them for MSRP (the real MSRP according to Pontiac). I just couldn't talk them down as much as people in some other regions could. Got mine for $30,500 (31k minus 500 rebate).

BTW:
http://www.pontiac.com/ws/nvlWindow...nd=GTO&websiteURL=&vehicleModel=&map=&driveD=
This one is a black/black A4 w/ 17" but is at another dealership in Sunrise Fl. Not sure how far that is from you.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

Clueless said:


> This may affect what dealers are asking for the cars. But, I'm in Texas, and dealers around me had them for MSRP (the real MSRP according to Pontiac). I just couldn't talk them down as much as people in some other regions could. Got mine for $30,500 (31k minus 500 rebate).
> 
> BTW:
> http://www.pontiac.com/ws/nvlWindow...nd=GTO&websiteURL=&vehicleModel=&map=&driveD=
> This one is a black/black A4 w/ 17" but is at another dealership in Sunrise Fl. Not sure how far that is from you.


Thanks for the great help man.....I actually was researching the inventory for the GTOs in FL earlier and found that there are still many A4 GTOs left in FL when both my salesman and manager told me that there were only 2 left in the entire state which now I know is just BS. The amount of lies and crap that this dealer is telling im just going to go to that Ed Morse dealer in sunrise and look at that GTO that u showed me last. Thanks Mike.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Good idea about checking other dealers; some mistakes happen, but there have been a couple of funny things just from the little info you have told us.

If anything, go to Pontiac.com and look for the GTO, then do "Locate Vehicle". Or go to gmbuypower.com and do the search there. You have to repeatedly plug in cities/zip codes--and keep in mind that it won't show you everything or be 100% accurate--but it is a nice, fair way to search. You'll get to see the actual stickers and such, not the dealer advertised prices.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

Tell me what you guys think I should do....1. go back to the same dealer and give them a whole raft of Sh1t and try and get real low on the price....2. go back and negotiate without going nuts....3. go to another dealer that I have now found out that actually has a window sticker and has over 8 GTOs which means they will probley give me a great price due to a great amount of inventory. Thanks Mike.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Well, you have my opinion: I would shop elsewhere.

Even if you go back to the first dealer and make a stink, a) they may not want to admit things and may not go down on price b) they may try screwing you over somewhere in the heaps of financial papers, where it is harder to spot c) they don't seem very customer oriented, so is that who you want as your primary dealer?

Sometimes it is worth a little drive to find a place that treats you better. If anything, the first place may have your number, and you can get a better comparison.

I'm sure some others will voice their opinions too.


----------



## TexasAggie (Mar 2, 2005)

Option # 3. 
They wasted your time and almost your money.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

MoreMoonShine said:


> Option # 3.
> They wasted your time and almost your money.


Agreeged


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

My salesman is dieing to sell this to me so he just called me 5 minutes ago and I was telling him I dont know how u got your sticker price all the way to 35,280 because I have asked over 25 people about their pricing and they all said out the door for around 32,000. He then proceeded to tell me that it has the auto tranny which is about an extra 1g, a body appearance package that has all of these paint protectants, extra sheilding and pinstriping (which I forgot to mention that it has, and 18'' rims and tires. He also said it has every upgrade possible. With all of these options do u guys think it'll come out to 35,280 and then has 3 rebates for a total of 2g which makes the price 33,280 and out the door around 34,6-800?


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Mikes12985 said:


> My salesman is dieing to sell this to me so he just called me 5 minutes ago and I was telling him I dont know how u got your sticker price all the way to 35,280 because I have asked over 25 people about their pricing and they all said out the door for around 32,000. He then proceeded to tell me that it has the auto tranny which is about an extra 1g, a body appearance package that has all of these paint protectants, extra sheilding and pinstriping (which I forgot to mention that it has, and 18'' rims and tires. He also said it has every upgrade possible. With all of these options do u guys think it'll come out to 35,280 and then has 3 rebates for a total of 2g which makes the price 33,280 and out the door around 34,6-800?


That price for all you described is not too out of line. Out the door with all you described is not off base............ IF you want all that.

IF that car has the SAP installed, that could drive the cost up 3K. There is room to work there because, the list for the entire kit goes for about 3300.00. Their labor cost, and the parts cost is VERY negotiable. That SAP installed for a reasonable, not good price, but reasonable would be 2700. NOT 3300. Unless they painted the kit which would drive the cost up another 1800 or so.....That kit is supposed to be a dealer installed option. If the dealer installed it on their own accord, and is trying to sell the car with the kit on it, then they are inflating the price to make more $$$ than they would if you would get the car and then negotiate the SAP. 

Every upgrade possible? The car has no upgrades except for the SAP, and the 18" wheels. The paint sealant is not an upgrade, it's a dealer installed option that could run you 500.00. There is room to negotiate there too as well. The A4 requires a 1300 gas tax.

Extra shielding? I am at a loss on that one :confused 
Pinstriping is another added cost, dealer installed. Tell them to take it off if you don't want to pay for it. 

Added cost for Automatic transmission?? Automatic Transmission is standard. The M6 is a 695.00 option. The wheels are 495.00. 

I just did a build... The total expected MSRP is 33785 minus the Kit. 
That is before any kind of negotiating. 

I got my 05' with the kit for 33900. No 18" wheels. 

I am thinking.... perhaps this car was ordered this way, and after all this was done, the buyer backed out. If not, the dealer shelled out a lot of money for extras hoping they can make $$. 

If the car total with all that is 34K out the door, and you want all that take it. The 32k figure others are referring to is without the SAP. 

It all depends on if you want all that. If you want just the basic package you can find one for less.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Mikes12985 said:


> He then proceeded to tell me that it has the auto tranny which is about an extra 1g, a body appearance package that has all of these paint protectants, extra sheilding and pinstriping (which I forgot to mention that it has, and 18'' rims and tires. He also said it has every upgrade possible.


An automatic w/ 18" is 33,785 MSRP. As has been pointed out, the 35,280 doesn't sound like the SAP. 

It sounds to me like they put a bunch of dealer add-ons on. This is one way that dealers will try to get money from customers. The add-ons should never be purchased unless you want them and ask for them. But, some dealerships will put this stuff on a car when they get it in, and then try to force the price on a customer because the items are already on the car and they "can't take them off." 

Here is an article about dealer add-ons. There are others out there:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/47677/article.html

It sounds like this car has:
-pinstriping (a common dealer add-on, it is cheap to put on, but they try to charge over $100 for it. Also I think most pinstriping would look like crap on a GTO)
-"paint protectants and shielding" (this sounds to me like it has had a paint polymer protectant put on, sometimes called "paint sealant". You can buy a Zaino kit and do this yourself for a lot less, though you do have to put the labor into it).

As to options, the GTO was almost an optionless car. Here are your "options" when buying a GTO:
-Exterior color.
-Interior color (limited depending on exterior color.)
-Auto or manual tranny.
-17" or 18" wheels.

Above are the as-shipped options.

-Sports Appearance Package

The above is an option from Pontiac that is added at the dealer.

That is it. And given that the 35,280 is the MSRP (not the talk-down price), it seems that does *not* include the SAP. 

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if this dealership tries telling you it has *a* sports appearance package, but it isn't *the* SAP. Like, they might try to play on words, and really they are referring to the pinstriping and 18" wheels as a sports appearance package. Look at some pics online of the actual Pontiac SAP--it is distinctive, and once you know what it looks like, you will be able to tell if the GTO you were looking at has it or not.

Really, I'd go elsewhere. The strikes against this dealership are just adding up IMO.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

I just got quoted on 2 more dealers and one of them had the same exact MSRP of 35,280 and another 1 had just the price with the rebates in already and it was only down to 34,790....both of these didnt have as much as the goat I test drove so im gonna go back today and work on the price in anyway and probley take her home. Mike.


----------



## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Mikes12985 said:


> I just got quoted on 2 more dealers and one of them had the same exact MSRP of 35,280 and another 1 had just the price with the rebates in already and it was only down to 34,790....both of these didnt have as much as the goat I test drove so im gonna go back today and work on the price in anyway and probley take her home. Mike.


Keep in mind that pinstripes, paint sealant, scotchgard (carpet), leather protector, undercoating etc. etc. are HUUUUUUGE profit makers for dealers. 

Most all have 3rd parties come in for little or nothing to do the work and then they mark the cost up, sometimes 700% or more- - -


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Mikes12985 said:


> I just got quoted on 2 more dealers and one of them had the same exact MSRP of 35,280 and another 1 had just the price with the rebates in already and it was only down to 34,790....both of these didnt have as much as the goat I test drove so im gonna go back today and work on the price in anyway and probley take her home. Mike.


Mike, as I stated previous... for that price.... IF and only IF all that work was performed, that price is not too awful bad. 

The SAP costs and the others IF applied and in writing was done and with paint sealant etc applied with separate warranties, and YOU WANT ALL THAT, It isn't too awful bad. But there is a lot of room for the dealer to negotiate. 

As others are telling you also, all that add on stuff is huge profit makers for the dealership. With them adding all that on, they are driving up the cost at your expense because it is all applied without yours, or any other customer's say so. There is much room for haggling. If they do not want to work with you, go elsewhere. Let them stiff someone else. You can get the same car cheaper and have add on's done at your authorization at a pre agreed on price. 

If you chose to go with the SAP and you want the entire kit, make sure you get it all and not part of it and have the dealership charge you for all of it. The SAP can be installed as the entire kit or piece by piece. Look on the Pontiac web site for what is offered and the suggested retail price. NOT the dealer's suggested retail price.

Me personally, I would look for the car at the basic offerings and negotiate the SAP, 18" wheels etc. You have a much better chance of getting a better deal that way. You can use leverage of pricing from one dealer to another because of the differences in labor costs from one dealer to another. 

You can do much better than what the dealer is offering currently.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

at the last last last minute before going and thinking of all the stuff going on, I said forget about it and im gonna wait till around the end of august and order a new 1 straight from the factory if that option is still available....does any1 know if u can still order them fresh because from one of the dealers i got a quote from, they didnt have what I wanted and said they can do a dealer trade or something like that to get what I want or they said I could still order a fresh 1 from the factory still. Thanks Mike.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Unfortunately, you can no longer place orders. Last orders to be placed were end of March/early April from what I remember.

You can probably find a better deal if you are willing to drive a bit.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

I just got another quote on an Black on Red 06' with 18s and an auto trans. for 34,790 in store and 32,059 with all rebates possible and does NOT include tax, tag, and prep. Thats sounding much better huh? Mike.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Mikes12985 said:


> I just got another quote on an Black on Red 06' with 18s and an auto trans. for 34,790 in store and 32,059 with all rebates possible and does NOT include tax, tag, and prep. Thats sounding much better huh? Mike.


34,790 is getting closer to Pontiac's MSRP.

$32k is OK. People can get them for below this price, but that is a more acceptable price. You might be able to talk them down to 31,500. 31.5 would probably be OK, and 32, though not the best, is not terrible either.

Of course you've still to see what they'll give you on trade-in, but that only comes in after the initial car price haggling. Keep in mind the whole package has to be appealing to you--it doesn't matter if they will sell you the GTO for $29 if they only want to give you $1,000 for you BMW.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

Ya thats the only problem cause for the GTO I test drove they wanted a real high price for the GTO and they were giving me an unbeatable price for the BMW so it really all depeneds on what this other dealer offers for the BMW. Well now I am waiting till late summer to get 1, do u guys think there will still be some goats left in late august? Thanks Mike.


----------



## fenderbirdbass (Jun 18, 2006)

*New Gto/elkton,md*

Just to let yoiu know,the pontiac dealer here has 4 gto's priced down to 29k.
one was 31k but that was a auto with 18'wheels.I bet you could get them down to 28k if you play hardball with them.I just got mine from porter chevolet,,,25k it has 5400mi on it pretty much spotless so im happy as hell.


----------



## NT91 (Aug 30, 2005)

I got a 05 new for $28,500 last November.


----------



## Mikes12985 (May 27, 2006)

I was at a mall real far from my house and saw a dealer on the way back and I stopped by to see if they had any GTOs...man did they ever, they had 16 goats on the lot, every color out. I saw a blue exterior for the first time there today and fell in love, now im looking at blue. They also had a black exterior with red inside and it looked nice too. here are the prices they have and the ones im looking at. All 06's.....Black with Red inside with 18s-33,785.....Black with Black inside with 17s-33,290......Blue with Black inside with 18s-33,785......Blue with Black inside with 17s-33,290......I really like what this dealer does because pretty much all of there goats with autos and 17s r 33,290 and with 18s 33,785. All of these are the dealers price. On all of them there is a 2,000 rebate and this dealer only has some really great system for trading cars and that also has some 2,000 rebate on it. Out the door I could be looking at high 15s-low17s with the trade-in. Without the trade about low 31s withOUT tax, tag, and prep. Looks like I got a new dealer to buy from. Tell me if u guys think this is better for me. Thanks Mike.


----------



## madkat (Jul 20, 2006)

Mikes12985 said:


> I was at a mall real far from my house and saw a dealer on the way back and I stopped by to see if they had any GTOs...man did they ever, they had 16 goats on the lot, every color out. I saw a blue exterior for the first time there today and fell in love, now im looking at blue. They also had a black exterior with red inside and it looked nice too. here are the prices they have and the ones im looking at. All 06's.....Black with Red inside with 18s-33,785.....Black with Black inside with 17s-33,290......Blue with Black inside with 18s-33,785......Blue with Black inside with 17s-33,290......I really like what this dealer does because pretty much all of there goats with autos and 17s r 33,290 and with 18s 33,785. All of these are the dealers price. On all of them there is a 2,000 rebate and this dealer only has some really great system for trading cars and that also has some 2,000 rebate on it. Out the door I could be looking at high 15s-low17s with the trade-in. Without the trade about low 31s withOUT tax, tag, and prep. Looks like I got a new dealer to buy from. Tell me if u guys think this is better for me. Thanks Mike.


I think I would be rolling with that dealer.

I was working with one dealer here in the city until they refused to allow me to use my GM discount. At that point I iwent back to the dealer I purchased my 98 GTP from and made a heck of a deal. MSRP "33280" cyclone grey, M6, 18's. No SAP. my final purchase price before my trade was 26,500. I then recieved an additional 5 grand for my literally burned up GTP(caught fire on the friday before) I financed 23,500 because I added the 7 yr extended warrenty, gap insurance and 7 yrs of oil changes. I thought I did well. Considering I HAD to get a car so I could be back to work on Monday.


----------

