# 500 hp with cast iron heads



## Pennsylvania Amish Goat (Dec 18, 2020)

Going with a stroker crank assembly with a hydraulic roller cam from Butler. Dropped my heads off to a friend who has been doing it for 30 years now, said 500 hp wasn't possible with iron heads no matter what i have done to them. I sent an email to Butler but figured I would ask this here. They are #48 castings Is anyone making this power with iron heads? If the work to achieve this is that expensive I would probably go with aluminum heads


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

My Butler 461 motor dynoed at 472 with 7K3 heads and a street porting to 220-240 cfm, 9.4 compression, stock intake, 1.52 rockers and a quad. I then swapped in an Performer RPM, 850 Quickfuel and 1.65 rockers so I have to be close to 500. Smarter people here will be able to help you more.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Pennsylvania Amish Goat said:


> Going with a stroker crank assembly with a hydraulic roller cam from Butler. Dropped my heads off to a friend who has been doing it for 30 years now, said 500 hp wasn't possible with iron heads no matter what i have done to them. I sent an email to Butler but figured I would ask this here. They are #48 castings Is anyone making this power with iron heads? If the work to achieve this is that expensive I would probably go with aluminum heads


People have been making 500 hp with iron heads for many decades. It might be easier to do with aluminum, but that's it.


----------



## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

I'm not personally at this moment, but 500hp with iron heads is not really extreme.


----------



## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

500 HP is very much achievable with iron heads but the cost will push you up to aluminum head territory. Unless you're building a numbers matching car, aluminum heads are the better option


----------



## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

i agree, the right porter can get u there. but aluminum may be a good choice in case you want to grow later. so the money may be saved with aluminum.


----------



## GTO44 (Apr 11, 2016)

Ive got a set of aluminum Edelbrock Performer heads (87cc combustion chambers and 2.11” intake valves) we pulled off a customers 400ci pontiac motor. He just did a fresh engine build targeting 850hp on nitrous and doesnt need them anymore. Comes with ARP head bolts. Let me know if you’re interested, he’s looking to sell them.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm running a set of 6X heads, ported to flow 248 CFM (confirmed on flow bench), with a similar compression ratio as @Baaad65. Do the math and the heads will support up to 515hp. The shop that did the port work on my heads only works on Pontiacs. While I have not had mine on a dyno, the combination I have should be good for in the neighborhood of ~500hp.

Y0ou may want to reach out to Darrin at Nitemare (not too far from you in CT). He gets great numbers on cast iron heads at a fraction of the price of aluminum.


----------



## Mike Honcho (10 mo ago)

I have ported 48 heads on my car. No idea what my HP is but for me it’s crazy fast. For what it’s worth the guy at the shop I am using now was expecting average Pontiac power from my 400. Come back to pick up and he says my car surprised him. Plenty of power. Suggests a performer intake and a double pumper. That’s when he discovered the porting job on the heads. Back together him and his dad love it. Say it’s a 12 second car (guessing high12’s). This is coming from a guy who builds real race engines and races himself.

I am not going to dyno or race it. Just going to have fun so real numbers will not be known.


----------



## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

I built a 462 stroker, 10.25 compression, Edelbrock performer rpm with Quadra jet, 236/242 rollercam, and had it dynode, it is right at 500 hp at 5200 RPM, and 600 foot pounds at 4200 RPM. I did not port the heads whatsoever. They are number 16 cast.


----------



## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Ebartone said:


> I built a 462 stroker, 10.25 compression, Edelbrock performer rpm with Quadra jet, 236/242 rollercam, and had it dynode, it is right at 500 hp at 5200 RPM, and 600 foot pounds at 4200 RPM. I did not port the heads whatsoever. They are number 16 cast.


which 16 heads? i have the 68 big valve 16s.


----------



## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

ponchonlefty said:


> which 16 heads? i have the 68 big valve 16s.


Yes, same.


----------



## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Ebartone said:


> Yes, same.
> View attachment 158524
> 
> View attachment 158523
> ...


cool, im building a 400 and using the 041 melling cam. with a ported iron intake. im guessing maybe 400 hp but who knows. i doubt it makes more than that.


----------



## Mike Honcho (10 mo ago)

These are my 48’s


----------



## Kjbslsorenson (6 mo ago)

GTO44 said:


> Ive got a set of aluminum Edelbrock Performer heads (87cc combustion chambers and 2.11” intake valves) we pulled off a customers 400ci pontiac motor. He just did a fresh engine build targeting 850hp on nitrous and doesnt need them anymore. Comes with ARP head bolts. Let me know if you’re interested, he’s looking to sell them.


I am interested in those aluminum heads.
I sent you a PM.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

87cc aluminum heads great for a 455 or 461. For a 400, not so much.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

If I did another motor it would be Kaufman's D port 85cc ported to 290 or 310 cfm 👍


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> If I did another motor it would be Kaufman's D port 85cc ported to 290 or 310 cfm 👍


Oh God I hope not. This website can only hold 4000 more pictures, then we'll have to up grade our storage capacity. Will the new engine have one, or two breathers? 

This way we know how many gigabytes to buy.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Pennsylvania Amish Goat said:


> ...said 500 hp wasn't possible with iron heads no matter what i have done to them...


Your friend is mistaken. I did it. With iron heads. Granted, they were #722 RamAir IV's, but I was also running a factory iron intake (not RA IV) with a QJet and my fuel curve on the dyno was way off. I had really just taken it up there for break-in and there wasn't time for serious tuning. 

Bear


----------



## Bigfoot1965 (Mar 25, 2021)

I found a guy when I was in Cali that had a 455 from a Trans Am. I bought it and he built it. He's well known in Southern California for his engines. He builds a lot for the local guys. I told him I had 2 requirements. I wanted to run dual quads, and 500 hp. He just smiled. It's got the 7F6 heads, solid roller cam, roller rockers, repopped ceramic coated HO exhaust manifolds. Should be a ton of fun someday......


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Bigfoot1965 said:


> I found a guy when I was in Cali that had a 455 from a Trans Am. I bought it and he built it. He's well known in Southern California for his engines. He builds a lot for the local guys. I told him I had 2 requirements. I wanted to run dual quads, and 500 hp. He just smiled. It's got the 7F6 heads, solid roller cam, roller rockers, repopped ceramic coated HO exhaust manifolds. Should be a ton of fun someday......
> View attachment 158765
> View attachment 158766


That’s sweet I love dual quads, are you considering a Wagner pcv?


----------



## Bigfoot1965 (Mar 25, 2021)

Uh....I guess I'm not as up on things as I thought. What's a Wagner pcv?


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Bigfoot1965 said:


> Uh....I guess I'm not as up on things as I thought. What's a Wagner pcv?


A tunable pcv I learned about it here, a lot of guys are running them and make sure you have good breathers.


----------



## Bigfoot1965 (Mar 25, 2021)

Interesting! I'll have to look into it.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Bigfoot1965 said:


> Interesting! I'll have to look into it.











67 GTO PCV System Health and Reconfiguration


My 67 GTO has the original 400, which was rebuilt and using the original valve covers, with a breather on each, and the PCV valve in the valley pan. Having had 60 cars, I never once paid any attention to the PCV system. I never knew what it was for, never really cared, and I was like most of...




www.gtoforum.com


----------



## Pennsylvania Amish Goat (Dec 18, 2020)

Bigfoot1965 said:


> I found a guy when I was in Cali that had a 455 from a Trans Am. I bought it and he built it. He's well known in Southern California for his engines. He builds a lot for the local guys. I told him I had 2 requirements. I wanted to run dual quads, and 500 hp. He just smiled. It's got the 7F6 heads, solid roller cam, roller rockers, repopped ceramic coated HO exhaust manifolds. Should be a ton of fun someday......
> View attachment 158765
> View attachment 158766


Sweet. Those manifolds your running. Where did you purchase them from? I was trying to wait on some from RAR but I can't wait any longer. I am going with aluminum heads. I have a set of #48 that has just had a work done that I need to sell


----------



## Bigfoot1965 (Mar 25, 2021)

To the best of my 68 year old memory, I got them from RAR. It was probably 15 years ago.......These are round port manifolds, but I think they had D-ports as well. Haven't bought anything from them in a long time.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> A tunable pcv I learned about it here, a lot of guys are running them and make sure you have good breathers.
> View attachment 158770


No pictures of said breathers? You're slipping my friend.


----------



## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jared said:


> No pictures of said breathers? You're slipping my friend.


You mean these 🤣


----------



## ponchonlefty (8 mo ago)

Baaad65 said:


> You mean these 🤣
> View attachment 158822
> View attachment 158823


the breathers that started it all. they are nice.


----------



## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

R


----------

