# Help With Motor Oil



## vetteman50 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi All,

I have a stock 1971 GTO 400 auto got it about 6 months ago and just getting her on the road. I used Valvealine motor oil 20w-50 I'm wondering what others may be using. I also have been reading articals on flat tappit motors needing Zinc in the oil that the manufactures are doing away with due to strict emmissons. there was an additive you can buy to add to your oil, any thoughts on all this? So please let me know what oil and weight you use.

Thanks!

Marc :seeya:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

If you use the Racing Valvoline 20w-50 it has the ZDDP(or what ever it is) that is required for flat tappet lifters. it's the only oil I run in my GTO.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Rukee said:


> If you use the Racing Valvoline 20w-50 it has the ZDDP(or what ever it is) that is required for flat tappet lifters. it's the only oil I run in my GTO.


:agree

Thats what I'm using. 
If you want to keep using the non zinc additive oil you can get ZDD plus: 
ZDDP Plus Central, ZDDPlus oil additive - Home ZDDPlus oil additive

Around here its about 10.00 for a bottle. Would be cheaper to get the Valvoline racing oil with the HIGH ZINC added.


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## rigosgto (Sep 10, 2010)

Marc,

I use Joe Gibbs Driven racing oil products. I was forced to use it or void a warranty on a new race engine that I bought for my 64 Chevelle. Now I use it on my 68 GTO.
I use the X-4 because it is petroleum based, some use the hot rod oils. Check them out. Fairly inexpensive and can be delivered to your door.

Goggle Joe Gibbs oils


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The Valvoline Racing oil in California has no ZDDP in it. The Valvoline VR 1 that HAS ZDDP in it is available by mail order only and says "NOT FOR STREET USE" on the bottle. I'm running Shell Rotella T 15/40 diesel spec oil. I will soon be running Brad Penn oil, as the ZDDP is being removed from Rotella and Delo oils as we speak. I used to use 20/50 Castrol or Valvoline. About 15 year ago, I started using 10w-30 and 15-40 viscosities, as I realized the thick 2o/50 wasn't needed. The factory manuals call for 10w-30. I run stock oil clearances in my engines, and the two I'm running now have held together for 29 and 22 years respectively, without a rebuild. Whatever you do, run SOME sort of ZDDP in your engine. If I was running really loose clearances or a really tired engine, I'd use 20/50 to slow down oil consumption and to keep pressure high.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

We have it in PA fortunately. You can order it from Amazon:
Amazon.com: Valvoline VV211 VR1 Racing Formula SAE 20W-50 (Turbo Approved) Motor Oil, Pack of Twelve 1 Quart Bottles: Automotive

Comes to 4.99 per qt. I believe I paid 3.99 back in the Spring.


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## allpawl66 (May 9, 2008)

Brad Penn oil is excellent as well .


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## daveh70 (Sep 4, 2008)

I too have been using Valvealine motor oil 20w-50 w/the zinc additive already in it because a great mechanic shop I found recommends it. Although, I used to simply put in the regular 5w-30 oil in and my car and all was just fine as well.


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## dhinnah (Apr 12, 2010)

Mobil 1 15-50 also has zinc, and is specifically recommened for "older engines" as well as racing.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

dhinnah said:


> Mobil 1 15-50 also has zinc, and is specifically recommened for "older engines" as well as racing.


Synthetic oils are NOT recommended in the older engines by MANY. The late great GTO Legend John Sawruk advocated NOT using it he had documentation backing up his assertions and talked about it at GTOAA conventions. Even in the old time rear ends and such synthetics are NOT recommended. My brand new rear end I inquired about using synthetics and was told OH MY GOD NO. I would not use synthetics in one of these engines unless it was rebuilt for there use.
John Sawruk was a GTO God and Pontiac Historian and worked for GM and wrote for Pontiac. If John said so, it was.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Synthetic oils in an older engine will cause no harm IF a ZDDP additive is used or ZDDP is present. They will tend to leak out of a marginally sealed engine faster due to their superior flow and molecular construction. Synthetic gear oils for these cars is NOT recommended, as it is too slippery: it causes the synchro rings to slip in a standard gearbox and can lead to issues with the synchos/blocker rings. Not enough "grab" to slow the gears down to shift. Also, synthetic gear oil in an old style limited slip rear end is too slippery, and can cause cone-clutch sippage and burn-out. From what I've been able to tell, the best lubes for these older cars are high quality dino-based oils with the proper additives.


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## Glenn's Goat (Sep 7, 2010)

STP OIL Treatment has ZDDP in it. It may not be bad to use it along with thinner oils such as 10w 30 or 10w-40. However i dont know that it would contain enough ZDDP in it for full protection. But it may.


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

geeteeohguy - Same thing with wet clutches in sport bikes and dirt bikes. 





geeteeohguy said:


> as the ZDDP is being removed from Rotella and Delo oils as we speak.


I use Shell Rotella 15-40 in my race bikes and have great results with it so, for me, it was good to see the post about the Rotella oil. My question is how will you know the this ZDDP is taken out of the oil?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Not disputing anyone's opinions on oils I am no authority but going by John, as Sawruk was the foremost authority on these cars, engines, etc. His opinion was revered by everyone. His reasons for not using synthetics was echoed many times. When I talked to the race outfit that will at some point rebuild my motor, I asked them.. since this will be a rebuild can I get away with using synthetics and without ZDDP they recommend I don't use synthetic and stated to always use the ZDDP even in a new rebuild. Personally for me, I will play it safe and NOT use synthetics.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

ZDDP is especially used in new rebuilds. That's what cam lube basically is. Mike, great point on the wet clutches...same issue, not enough friction. The only way to know WHEN Rotella or Delo are going to be neutered is to contact the oil companies or get on their website. From my understanding, the ZDDP is already almost gone, even though I'm using Rotella right now. The laws here in CA require diesel trucks to be smogged, so along with sulpher being removed from the fuel, the ZDDP is being removed from the diesel spec oil, too. In my opinion, it's part of the Obama-mentality government plan to abolish all "old" vehicles so that we will be forced to buy inferior new ones to stimulate the economy!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

geeteeohguy said:


> ZDDP is especially used in new rebuilds. That's what cam lube basically is. Mike, great point on the wet clutches...same issue, not enough friction. The only way to know WHEN Rotella or Delo are going to be neutered is to contact the oil companies or get on their website. From my understanding, the ZDDP is already almost gone, even though I'm using Rotella right now. The laws here in CA require diesel trucks to be smogged, so along with sulpher being removed from the fuel, the ZDDP is being removed from the diesel spec oil, too. In my opinion, it's part of the *Obama-mentality government plan to abolish all "old" vehicles so that we will be forced to buy inferior new ones to stimulate the economy!*


He's on a mission. That topic gets my blood boiling. I laugh at the MORONS driving Priuses and smart cars with those blue bumper stickers on em'


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

In Germany they have stickers on their windows rating the cars emmisions and use. You have to have a 4 or above to be able to drive the vehicle in to the town center. Lower rated vehicles are not allowed to drive in town and can be ticketed. Or so my GF told me when I asked what the sticker was for.


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

I found this chart that has some specific applications and the oils that are recommended with phosphorus and zinc levels. About halfway down there is one (15W-50) for flat tappet applications. Then a little further down the list is one for diesel engines (like Rotella T) with less PPM than the previous listing.



I'm still digging for Rotella T info.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

MichealG, the Mobil 1's at the end of the chart, the V cycle oil and the racing oil that all say "not recommended for street use" are the ones we want. Look at the Zinc/phosphorus levels: around 1800ppm plus. Those are the kind of numbers we need to keep our engines alive. Thanks for posting.


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## dimitri (Feb 13, 2009)

In Jim Hand's book, he suggests using 10w-30 weight. He say's "Heavy oil adds a parasitic load on the engine through the oil pump, yet does not really improve lubrication."

Dimitri


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

geeteeohguy said:


> MichealG, the Mobil 1's at the end of the chart, the V cycle oil and the racing oil that all say "not recommended for street use" are the ones we want. Look at the Zinc/phosphorus levels: around 1800ppm plus. Those are the kind of numbers we need to keep our engines alive. Thanks for posting.


Yea I saw that too.
Is there a certain range or is it the more the better?


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

more than you ever wanted to know here Welcome


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I think the magic number is 1300-1600 ppm to avoid flat tappet damage. I know 1200 or less is bad news.......... Man, we could spend a lifetime researching this [email protected]!!!


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

I read something about Mobil 1's oils losing their API certifications after Katrina, I'm sure they aren't the only one. I was cautioned by several mechanics not to use anything that doesn't have their seal on it anymore. I don't know how accurate that statement is or if it's still an issue. Something to chew on though.


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## dimitri (Feb 13, 2009)

What does Katrina have to do with Mobile 1 losing their API rating? Did I miss something earlier in the forum. I use that oil in newer cars with catalytic exhaust and computers. I have been running it in my 99 Chryler 300. I have 100,000 with no problems. I figure if it is good enough for the factory to put it in the new Corvettes it's got to be alright for newer applications.

Dimitri


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## 68gtohawk8369 (Oct 26, 2009)

*engine oil*

I thought with a hydrolic roller cam the zinc additive wasnt mandatory .Im sure I read that in one of the mags I subscribe to.:confused


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

It's not. The high ZDDP content oils are only needed with flat-tappet cam motors, like the old GTO's from the '60's. Basically, anything with roller or overhead cams is fine with the new stuff. Every flat tappet engine from about 1990 back needs ZDDP, though.


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