# 2005 GTO Dead?



## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

My 05 GTO has been sitting for almost a month while I have been installing UPP twin turbos. Well got to the point last night where I needed to fire it up to finish adding coolant/water and check.oil level. Battery was relocated to trunk due to lack of engine bay room with 0 gauge wire. Put key in and turned and dash would dim when key turned. Figured battery was weak (6 yr old optima) so I attempted to jump start it with same results. So I took battery to Advanced where they checked it. Came up unstable/bad cell. So I bought new one and took it home and installed. Now here is what is happening;
Interior dome and door and under dash lights work
Key fob when clicked lock/unlock parking lights flash but locks don't operate
Put key in ignition and turn nothing happens.... I mean nothing dash doesn't even light up or radio power up. Only light in cluster that is lite is the car/lock red flashing icon. Has me baffled. I have rechecked ground connection (frame sanded to bare metal). 

Any suggestions or ideas?

I have checked ALL dash/engine bay fuses... all good.

I am completely baffled.


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Rechecked all fuses this morning in the light... none are blown. Headlights, interior dome/door lights, parking lights all work. But nothing anywhere else (pwr seats,windows, mirrors). Putting in the key doss not cause the usual chimming when doors are open, and turning it does not cause instrument cluster to wake up or radio/clock to illuminate. 

Could the computer be fried? Could the old battery having bad cell/unstable caused all of this? Seems if it had been a short some fuse would be blown. 

Checked voltage at battery (12.66v) and at fuse box (12.38v) doesn't seem to be lack.of power. 

Thought it might be antheft being stupid and went to check with HP tuners but must have ignition tuned on for HP to read and turning key obviously doesn't cause ignition to come on now.

Bad ignition switch? Bad computer? Short somewhere? Second bad battery? Anyone?


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Dumb question, but is the new battery fully charged?


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

I assume it did come fully charged. I checked its voltage and it was 12v+. Also charged it with 10 amps for 20-30 minutes with no change in results. How else should I check to make sure it is battery?


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Opened car tonight and all hazard lights, interior lights (except dash), and horns flashed until clicker on key fob was clicked unlock. So plenty is still working.... just nothing tied to ignition being switched on. My tuner friend thinks it could be a bad bcm? Maybe shorted when bad battery was misfiring? But he is only guessing. Would power seats usually work with key turned off? I would think so... but they are not working. 
Still baffled... feeling helpless.


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

Check out the Sticky on this site for a possible easy fix for the BCM Wiring harness...common problem with these cars. IMO I believe it has something to do with the BCM like your tuner buddy.


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Odd that relay audibly clicks when fob is pressed but actual locks do nothing?


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

68OldGoat.... still new to this forum. Where would I find the sticky you suggested?


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## johni53 (Feb 10, 2010)

I'd take it to a GM dealer; know it'll be more expensive but at least you've got a better chance for the right diagnosis.


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

Service, Maintenance and Technical Discussion - Pontiac GTO Forum


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Taking it to a GM dealer is hard since car will not start and nearest GM dealer is an hour away.


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Short of towing half complete car an hour how does one go about diagnosing bcm problem? Can it be replaced at home if it is the culprit?


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

Is the security LED on the dash blinking all the time?
Even when the key is in the ign?


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Security icon in instrument cluster, car/lock, is blinking all the time.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

AlaGreyGoat said:


> Is the security LED on the dash blinking all the time?
> Even when the key is in the ign?


The security LED is supposed to blink even with the key in the ignition until you turn it to the full on position (just before the start position). The BCM can be changed at home but it will have to be progammed to the car with a Tech 2.


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

I'd try connecting the battery close to the starter to be certain I wasn't losing current due to the length of the wiring from the trunk.


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

I checked BCM wiring behind glove box... all looks perfect with no rubbing or chaffing. I am going to hook battery up up front and make sure that it isn't lack of current. But I would think the 0 gauge wire that came with kit would be more than sufficient. Could I take BCM out and have dealership check just it? If not and I can change BCM at home, but required dealership to program.... would changing it at home help any? IE would it allow car to do anything?


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

HP11... security LED (car/lock) blinks no matter what position the key/ignition is in. Putting key in and turning it does absolutely nothing! It changes nothing.... like I am not doing anything. If I didn't know better I would think the ignition cylinder was bad.... but if that were the case the power seats and locks would still work. Wiring is most peoples first suggestion, but I don't see how the wiring was "good enough" to cause dash to light up and led readout to illuminate before battery swap, but not now with a new and better battery. I am leaning more towards the BCM or some other electrical component. Just wishing there was a good way to check it to insure it is the problem. Kind of scares me taking my car which is almost through with the twin turbos, but still lacking correct amount of coolants, oils, new larger injectors, and correct tune to the dealership where I don't know anyone of the advisers or techs. All it would take is them fixing it and letting it run/revving it up and screw up the whole [email protected]


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

I've looked over the schematics and here are a few things to check:

In the under hood fuse panel check the Engine and the Main 60a fuses and
check that they have 12v on the fuses. Check the BCM/Engine Control 15a fuse and 
the Engine Sensor 15a fuse.
Check the mini relays, replace them one by one with a known good one.
If you grounded the battery in the trunk to the frame, make sure you have 
a ground from the frame to the engine.

You say the fob blinks the parking lights, clicks, cuts of the alarm, but doesn't unlock the door.
Does the security LED go off when it clicks to try to unlock the door? It should.

Larry


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

AlaGreyGoat security LED does not go off when keyfob is clicked.

I will go through all the relays and fuses again Wednesday when I am.off during daylight.


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Trying one more thing before I give up and undo 60+ hours of turbo install and hook it back up factory and either it works... or I take it factory to GM to allow them to diagnose it. So the only two options are bad ground/power (unlikely as much as I have checked this) or bad electronics where the GM dealer will have to fix (ouch). So can someone please help me out and take pics of a factory GTO's neg/grn side wire at battery post. Where does it go specifically? Does it just go to one common ground location? Or does it go to several locations? If multiple please list each as detailed as you can. Where I am going with this is making sure there isn't some additional grounds I am missing now that my battery is in trunk grounding straight to frame.


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

*2005 gto dead?*

I have a thread over in the General section... but figured this was a better section to list.

Almost complete with 2005 GTO UPP Twin Turbo install. Had to do a battery relocate to make room for passenger side turbo. Battery was moved to trunk and wires as follows;
NEG - Frame (sanded and bolted under trunk)
POS - Starter -Alternator & Fuse Block

Was ready to initial fire-up when the following happened;

Put key into ignition and turned to run... everything that should have lit up did (dash cluster/radio/AC fan).

Turned the key to crank.... starter did not start but dash dimmed down/went out. Tried additional times with same results.

Hooked jumper cables up to battery and gave car a good 2-3 minutes.... same results (dimmed dash cluster & abs fault msg)

Took battery to Advanced Auto and it check out bad cell/unstable (6 yr old optima) so had battery replaced (purchased) with new optima.

Installed new battery in trunk box and reconnected battery terminals. 

Opened car doors and dome and door panel lights were illuminated.

Inserted key into ignition and turned to run... nothing changed... dash cluster did not illuminate...radio doesn't work... 

Key is turned to start/crank... nothing happens (still no cluster lights or starting of car) So not only does car not crank but dash and accessories don't even illuminate!

Battery ground has been checked (multiple times and is sanded and bolted to frame under trunk)

ALL standard fuses have been checked (visually) and the ones that have constant pwr have been checked with test light. 

So what could it possibly be?

What does still work (with or without key in ignition)
1) headlights
2) flashers
3) dome and door panel lights
4) glovebox lights

What somewhat works
1) key fobs... when pressed an audible clicking of a relay can be heard but doors DO NOT lock/unlock
2) security system (if key fob is locked and doors are opened the flashers/interior dome and door lights flash and horns honk)

I am at the point of believing it is one of two things...

1) maybe there was some additional battery (neg) to ground connection I am missing. I believe the factory setup may have had more than one wire coming off the negative terminal? Or one wire that split off to multiple locations. Is this correct? If so where did the neg/grnd connections go? IE battery to frame at such and such location or battery to engine or battery to such and such connection. Maybe since battery is in trunk and neg post is only grounded to frame I am missing the grounding for something. But this doesn't explain why dash illuminated for multiple times when attempting to start with old (bad) battery.

2) some electronic device (BCM, ECU, etc) has become fried or otherwise nonfunctional. If this is the case is there any way to check or verify which device is bad short of towing vehicle to dealer (hour away) and having them diagnose the problem?

I am trying to exhaust every available option before taking it to dealer since I believe I would need to undo the 60+ hours of installation before taking it to allow them to verify and diagnose.

So who has pics with detailed descriptions of negative side of battery and where it should be connected? 

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

With the battery grounded to the frame in the trunk, you need a jumper
from the frame to the engine block, in the engine bay.
A # 8 or 10 wire would be suffice.
Since the first time you tried to start the car with the bad battery, and it seemed that everything tried to work correctly, something lost power or fried.
It would be nice if you could find a GM tech with a TECH II programmer to 
come look at your car.

Larry


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Threads merged. See post #22.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

Just reviewed the post. The starter needs a direct ground to the frame,
so you need a full size #1 wire from the frame to the engine block.

Larry


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## grifter95 (Nov 28, 2012)

Forgot to update thread. Thanks all who helped. Ended up being the main fuseable link. Visibly checked out... But failed electrical check. Replaced and all days lights up again. Then went to crank up car and fuse able link flows almost instantly. Traced that problem back to passenger down pipe flex section touching on signal wire of starter. When ignition turned to start it would short out link. Stupid easy fix that took forever to find. Can't believe it took me this long to find!


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