# Engine swap on a 70 and 66



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Well, I finally pulled the intake off my 70 Lemans w/400 w/6X heads to replace a ticking lifter. Well, I found 2 dead cam lobes. This motor is cruddy looking, so I'm pulling it out and putting the original 350 back in with a new cam, oil pump and rebuilt heads with new guides and hardened seats. Then, I'll replace the cam and oil pump on the 400, detail it and put that in my 66 GTO Cloan. 
So, now I have a 66 389/325 HP out of my 66 that needs a new home. It also needs pistons and freshening- ran good, but smoked bad, YE Block. It is stock bore, heads are off-092s. Clean engine, all cylinders ran the same, no fouling, just worn out.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I got the 350 back together and in the 70.
Problem- Headman header tube hits my proportioning valve down on the frame. Its' just the tube that goes over the 4 speed linkage area, plenty of room to move the tube. Can I heat the tube in 2 spots and bend the whole tube over out of the way? I don't like the idea of braking with super heated brake fluid. How much clearance do I need prop to exhaust? I am thinking of wrapping that area of the tube, too lazy to do the whole header.
Will the header come out the bottom of the car with the engine jacked up? Passenger side was hard to get in from the top, should of hung it BEFORE dropping the engine in, lol..


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

If you jack the car waaaaay up, you can get the header in. You may need to relocate the prop. valve. Heat is a bad thing for brake fluid, as you know. Why are you replacing a 389 with a 400 for a '66, even if it's a clone? My choice would be to rebuild and run the 389. Only reason: "389" SOUNDS cooler than "400". Just like "396" sounds more impressive than "402".


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

The 389 I can see daylight between the piston and cylinder wall, worn out. I didn't want to pay for the hardened seats on the 92 heads and deal with the high compression. My new thought is see how the bores are on the 400, and it will probably need pistons anyway to get compression up, so I'm thinking rebuild the 389 bottom end and put the 6X-4 heads on it. 389 and hardened seats, win win. A neighbor has a comp cams 280 cam laying around, so may use that, and have a hot street car.
What performance advantage between 66 389 and a 75 400 bottom end, 389 just seams like a smaller motor. A 389 .030 over is a 395, but I could call it a 396 and throw everyone off, yep got a Pontiac 396 small block in her.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Common practice is to move the prop valve to the top of the frame. My experience with trying to persuade header tubes to bend is they just collapse where I pushed on them....


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Jetstang, if you bore that 389 .060" over, you can use standard 400 pistons, which will also have the right valve reliefs in them to run '67-up heads. Best of both worlds. Be advised that .060 is about as far as you can go with a 389 and not have overheat problems, etc.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Too Many Projects said:


> Common practice is to move the prop valve to the top of the frame. My experience with trying to persuade header tubes to bend is they just collapse where I pushed on them....


It's just a 350 with a cam in it, doesn't need much flow. The tube is by itself and goes over where the 4 speed linkage would be, other 2 go under. How much clearance to the prop valve before heating issues, will an inch make it OK if I header wrap it?
Can I move the prop valve WITHOUT redoing all the brake lines, there all in really good shape, and I wire wheeled the brass? prop valve, looks pretty.
I could V cut the header tube, bend it in and reweld it, get the clearance I need?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

jetstang said:


> It's just a 350 with a cam in it, doesn't need much flow. The tube is by itself and goes over where the 4 speed linkage would be, other 2 go under. How much clearance to the prop valve before heating issues, will an inch make it OK if I header wrap it?
> Can I move the prop valve WITHOUT redoing all the brake lines, there all in really good shape, and I wire wheeled the brass? prop valve, looks pretty.
> I could V cut the header tube, bend it in and reweld it, get the clearance I need?


I've heard of guys moving it to the top without replacing lines, but no personal experience if that actually works. I would think an inch, especially with wrap, would be sufficient. If you can "engineer" a way to get that much clearance out of the tube, go for it....:cheers


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> Jetstang, if you bore that 389 .060" over, you can use standard 400 pistons, which will also have the right valve reliefs in them to run '67-up heads. Best of both worlds. Be advised that .060 is about as far as you can go with a 389 and not have overheat problems, etc.


OK, but is the 389 rod the same length as a 400? Or is the 389 and 400 crank journal the same size, and stroke the same, where I could just put std. 400 rods and pistons in it. Good point on the valve reliefs, I just looked at my 389 pistons, and reliefs are not very big. Any good link for reasonable 389 or 400 pistons? I know building pontiacs is expensive, but $40 ea. for a cast piston? I can get forged BBC pistons for that price.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The 389 rods and crank are the same as the 400. Just have the 400 std. pistons pressed onto the 389 rods and you'll be good to go. Stock std. 400 pistons shouldn't be too expensive....They're a lot cheaper than 389 pistons.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> The 389 rods and crank are the same as the 400. Just have the 400 std. pistons pressed onto the 389 rods and you'll be good to go. Stock std. 400 pistons shouldn't be too expensive....They're a lot cheaper than 389 pistons.


Thanks, that's good info. Now, to find pistons. Just seams a shame to take a std. bore block out to .060. But, it's not like it's going to be driven a lot.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Got the 350 in my 70 Lemans, and got it running tonight, :cheers. Had to play with the timing, but finally got it running. Broke in the cam without overheating and without issue, 1500 RPM for 15 minutes. Then turned the idle down and got it down to 600 rpms and it doesn't lope like it should-damnit, need a bigger cam, but the exhaust is leaking til I get it welded up, used 2 1/2" pipe coupler adapters to hook my headers to my current exhaust, will sound better without exhaust leaks, but quieter for break in than open headers.








Temp air cleaner til I get a longer stud, or clean that one up. Talked to my buddy at his body shop the other day, and he thinks there's still time to paint the car before the power tour, so that motivated me to finish the car. Now, just finish the wiring and hook up a couple grounds, electrical gremblins and car should be at his shop monday with luck. I put the new Graphite header gaskets on it, and they smoke and stink really bad until they burn off all their bad, they burn your eyes, and they were Percy's XX Carbon Exhaust Header Gaskets. Really nice gaskets and sealed up really nice. Anyway, project is moving in the right direction! Still need to adjust the valves and hook up ground, but not bad for an engine that was pulled out in 90 for a 400. NO LEAKS!!!


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

:cheersarty::cheers


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

66tempestGT said:


> :cheersarty::cheers


June 10th, I'll bring the beer, your bar, my Lemans in your yard-:cheers
If the body shop comes through.. If not, dif car, same story..


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

That car needs paint ?? :confused
Wish 1 of mine looked that good...:willy:


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Too Many Projects said:


> That car needs paint ?? :confused
> Wish 1 of mine looked that good...:willy:


I appreciate the compliment, and trust me, I understand. I do paint cars at home, but not this one, it's my forever car. And the first car I did everything to in my life, and the most I have ever paid for a paint job.
A new paint job has 4.5 mils of paint on it. I have buffed this car down to 1.4mils, and that is including the original paint job. It is buffed through in many places, and you see primer. The only bondo is the size of a quarter in the bottom of the quarters, some bubbling on the right rear fender by the trunk and a bottom part of the doors. And they need to rework the seams on the rear pillars, bowed up. It has maybe 10 dings that need to be fixed. Beyond that all metal is original rust free and straight. I am replacing the rear panel between the trunk and rear window, some repaired holes there and window trim doesn't fit. Beyond that, the car has all original floor/trunk pans and it is clean. My body guy is all over painting it, easy for him, and he can brag up his great body work that it didn't need. Oh, and I gave $4K for it 3 years ago with the body as is, but have dumped a ton of money in it since rebuilding everything. But interior was good, just put a carpet in it. Still needs more, but no project is ever done.
My 66 Tempest that I had in 81 didn't have a trunk or quarter panels, but that was in Wisconsin, this car doesn't even have rust on the shock bolts. I swapped the rear end and didn't replace a bolt, just unbolted and put them right back in.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Too Many Projects said:


> That car needs paint ?? :confused
> Wish 1 of mine looked that good...:willy:


Guy here has a frame off pro done GTO Judge, he paid $80k for it, so if I show the car in GTO class, I always end up next to him. Nice guy, but hard to compete with. I'm not really into shows, but really want to finish this car.








Tell me what you want and I will try to find it here, save you a hell of a lot of time on the bodywork. And it's a good excuse for a road trip to Florida!!


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Had buddies come over today to help put the hood back on. Adjusted the valves back to my non running adjustment, had it right, then backed them off because of backfire on start up, was timing, not valves.. Anyway, told them I needed the rear fill panel between the trunk and window cut out before it went to the paint shop, that was the show stopper. Well, a 18 pack of bud light and a couple pizzas and the rear panel is out, need to clean up a couple small areas, ospho it, and weld in the new panel, it will be done tomorrow. Only issue now is intake is leaking on the exhaust port, and weld in my adapters on the exhaust. Then dechrome it and it is ready for the paint shop. May get it done in time for the power tour.
Play around with a car for months, then when it's go time,the work gets done! Helps when one guy has a glass doctor truck, and the other guy is a metal tech.
Backed the car out to turn it around, reverse was fine, went to put it in forward and nothing. Pulled harder and it would go into gear for a second and disengage. Got it back in the driveway, looked under it and it has a floor shifter, but still has the linkage for a column shift and it was hitting the headers-Headman suck. Disco'd the linkage for the column and it worked fine, just lost my indicator and neutral safety switch! Motor runs great, no leaks or weird stuff, I'm happy!


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Had to put a new fill panel in before going to paint shop, buddy is really good with metal. Rebuilt both sides next to the panel, all metal in pics, no bondo. He made the trim fit perfect. Cut it out saturday, welded panel in Sunday and repaired the rusty metal. Long days, but worth it.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Friend picked me up a 69 400 motor and turbo 400 for $500. Trans has been gone through. Both have been sitting in the weather under a tarp for a few years. It has an Edelbrock Performer intake, Edel 600 needs rebuild, rusty valve covers. But, inside of heads, 046 are real clean, assume inside of motor is also fresh. It is a 10:1 2 barrel motor rated at 290HP. All it says for 46 heads is 10:1 and small valves. What would 6X-4 heads do for compression on this shortblock? Hopefully it looks as good inside as it does in the heads. Hopefully it has a nice cam in it as it was in a street rod, 54 Chevy truck. Motor isn't greasy, just pulled for a fresh SBC, hopefully. Going to use the motor if it's good for my 66, $300 for motor is cheaper than a set of pistons for my other motors, so wish me luck, $200 for trans if motor is crap.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Tried to take the Lemans to the body shop today, about 25 miles, maiden voyage. Was running hot on way up, then real hot. Got out and checked radiator, it was still cool, bad gauge. Drove it in, guy in next car pointed under it, bad water leak. I hauled ass to get to the gas station, went to pull in and Kaboom, water everywhere, even on the windshield. Got a flat bed and took it to the shop. Pulled the radiator, it split the seam on the side, weird. $60 to rod out radiator and reweld tank, good deal. Funny thing is I had a Fail Safe thermostat in it, the kind that fail to the open position. Hell of a day, at least I don't think it hurt the motor, still runs fine.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Update on the bodywork. Went to the shop today, and all panels are fixed and dead straight, Friday their taking the hood off and sanding down the front window fill area, and repainting hot rod black, hopefully inner fenderwells and front radiator support. They say the car will be painted Tuesday. But, I am going to work in New Orleans for the week, so they have til next Sat to get it done, then 10 June off to the power tour. Hell of a scramble to get it done, but they are doing great work! I am pulling and detailing the motor on a 67 Mustang as partial swap, easy work. Rebuilt the Edelbrock 600 yesterday and got it running after a year of yard duty, ran good. Pulling the motor tomorrow. I came to do work on my car, but I wrench better, I said I'll work on this, you fix my car, game on!


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

jetstang said:


> June 10th, I'll bring the beer, your bar, my Lemans in your yard-:cheers
> If the body shop comes through.. If not, dif car, same story..


i dont know how i missed this. looks like the tempest wont make it but my dads 64 impala will be a suitable back up plan. need to test out the new vintage air anyway. as far as drinking some beer at the house... its on! :cheers


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

66tempestGT said:


> i dont know how i missed this. looks like the tempest wont make it but my dads 64 impala will be a suitable back up plan. need to test out the new vintage air anyway. as far as drinking some beer at the house... its on! :cheers


Cool, should be fun!
Here's the current pic, at the body shop, should be done in time.
















And my back up plan for the power tour! I'm probably just taking the Vette, better gas mileage and more reliable. Got my new rims on this week! I wanted to take the 454, but GF doesn't think that's a good power tour vehicle, I'm confused but OK.


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