# 1965 Iris Mist Convertible



## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Hello guys n gals. Sooo, here goes. 1965 needing total frame off. Numbers matching. True "P" code car. PHS. It appears very original. Tags on carb rear and tranny. Someone got the car and painted it black. Most likely because Iris Mist wasn't cool. A bit of rust on inner rear wheel wells and lower front fenders. Most likely some on lower rear quarters. Floors are good. Seats are great.

So I am planning on making this a driver. The only non stock items would be front disc, and some engine internals. I would like to put a 65 WT 389 in it and keep the original wrapped up. I am in well over my head, but plan on moving slow. Taking lots of video on my ipad before I disassemble stuff. I am not a mechanic and have never done a restoration, so it's gonna be an interesting journey. Garage is small so space management is crucial.


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## MarkS57 (Feb 8, 2014)

Good luck with it. I myself love the Iris Mist color, should be a nice looking car. If you are not gong to use the original 389 then the world is your oyster regarding other engines, why the 65 WT specifically? Is it a manual trans car?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Nice project. Another vote for Iris Mist. Had a '67 conv. special paint code Iris Mist and someone did not like it either, painted it a dark blue.

Plenty of help and information here to assist in your rebuild. Just take it a step at a time. Taking a lot of disassembly pics and bagging/labeling parts is the way to go. Do not set a time frame for completion and have a basic budget, but know that it always goes over.

Should be fun.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Yes, its 4 speed wide ratio. 3.23 rear end. WT is not a must have. If one come up for a reasonable price I would get it. Otherwise, i'm pretty open. Some interesting stuff comes through ebay once in a while.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Nice project. Another vote for Iris Mist. Had a '67 conv. special paint code Iris Mist and someone did not like it either, painted it a dark blue.
> 
> Plenty of help and information here to assist in your rebuild. Just take it a step at a time. Taking a lot of disassembly pics and bagging/labeling parts is the way to go. Do not set a time frame for completion and have a basic budget, but know that it always goes over.
> 
> Should be fun.


Thanks Jim. That's the plan. Moving slow. Budget is a tough one. Right now sticking to the gotta have it to drive it. Figure body prep and paint around 10k. Rest about 6-8K. I'll have the pros reassemble the front end to get the gaps right.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Wow a 67 Iris Mist. That's a rare rare car.


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

I really like the iris mist as well. The contrast between the pretty floral color and a screaming muscle car motor inside is perfect. And it really is pleasant to look at, in my opinion. I have considered going with iris mist if I ever have my 65 painted again. The original burgundy it was born with seems too dark to my eyes.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

XceedVne said:


> Wow a 67 Iris Mist. That's a rare rare car.


Yes, you could order special paint codes in '67-'68. The Data Tag did not have a code, I think is was a "1" or "2" or something like that which has been covered here before. I was young and did not know what I know now and back then, it was just a fast GTO. How many '67 convertibles do you think they made in Iris Mist, close ratio 4-speed, 3.90 gears, and the RA hood option? National Geographic magazine had an ad for a 1967 GTO hardtop in Iris Mist - which I have.

I think I have decided to paint my '68 Lemans Iris Mist, and paint the top white so as to contrast the color. I have the vinyl trim to break it up and I am installing a white interior. I think it will look good.

In 1968 Pontiac offered a special color called Pink Mist, but it does appear to be a light pink and different from the Iris Mist.

I saw the enclosed '68 convertible at the Pontiac Nationals. A website says it is Pink Mist, but it looks closer to Iris Mist to me.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

I would guess you had 1 of 1, Jim.
What an amazing combo!


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## Pontiac George (Mar 11, 2020)

I know most on the sight will consider this blasphemy but... 
In all honesty, keep the original motor and put an LS3 in it. It will be faster, safer, cleaner and way more efficient 
I’d definitely bring it back to Iris Mist. I have a number of 67 GTO convertibles, super rare Plum Mist, White, Mariner Turquoise, Red, Tyrol Blue. Never ever seen nor heard of a 67 Iris Mist.


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## Pontiac George (Mar 11, 2020)

BTW I’d like to know where you can get body prep and paint for $10k. In Kommiefornia that's at least $20k done professionally.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

I got a buddy that's doing the body stuff for friend rate. Leaving about 6k for paint. Maybe I'm off on the estimate. It's always more. ?


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## Pontiac George (Mar 11, 2020)

Ok. Buddy with the body rate makes more sense.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Pontiac George said:


> I know most on the sight will consider this blasphemy but...
> In all honesty, keep the original motor and put an LS3 in it. It will be faster, safer, cleaner and way more efficient
> I’d definitely bring it back to Iris Mist. I have a number of 67 GTO convertibles, super rare Plum Mist, White, Mariner Turquoise, Red, Tyrol Blue. Never ever seen nor heard of a 67 Iris Mist.


Well here you go, the ad is from National Geographic. Not the best copy via my scanner, but Iris Mist and what looks like the ram air hood option, just as I had.

First pic is the only one I have of the car showing the color still at the firewall area behind the fender. Second pic is blown up for a little better look - around 1979-80 I believe. Yes, Iris Mist as only the exterior was painted blue and the underside of the trunk, behind th fenders, in the door jams......still Iris Mist. When I sold the body, the guy who purchased it was going to repaint it silver. Sad part is that you cannot trace the special paint colors, so it may still be around after all these years, and no one would know it was Iris Mist. Now you can say you have seen one.

With regards to the LS engine........please sell you collection of Pontiacs to a person who can appreciate then for what they are - Pontiac powered.


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## Pontiac George (Mar 11, 2020)

Jim I’ve got plenty of beautiful Pontiac powered Pontiacs. In fact some of the rarest and nicest in country. But if a car doesn’t have a numbers matching motor, LS3 is the way to go. Faster, Safer, Cleaner and way more Efficient.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Pontiac George said:


> Jim I’ve got plenty of beautiful Pontiac powered Pontiacs. In fact some of the rarest and nicest in country. But if a car doesn’t have a numbers matching motor, LS3 is the way to go. Faster, Safer, Cleaner and way more Efficient.


Well, I will never agree that the LS3 is ever the way too go. I have yet to see where the costs are lower to do the swap with all the changes and modifications required, so it is not cost effective in my book.

Then, I have yet to ever hear the 'Pontiac" sound coming out from the rear pipes of an LS3 conversion and if you have never heard and felt the iconic sound of the Q-jet snapping open and its droning tone, or that sucking sound of all three carbs wide open on a tri-power set-up, then you have missed out what Pontiac engines are all about.

Faster? Than what? Cleaner? Hmmm, apples and oranges with all the electronics/computer controls and other means used. With all the different EFI's and other add-on electronics you can now install on these older engines, you may be able to bring them up to cleaner standards. Isn't that what the mid-70's and '80's were all about? Efficient? See previous note. 

If I wanted an LS engine in my Pontiac, I'd buy a Chevelle or Camaro and stick it in that. But a Pontiac? Nope, not until you have stuffed a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac and driven it first, then if you didn't care for it, sell the Pontiac with the Pontiac engine and get a Chevelle or Camaro.

Just my opinion of course.


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## Robert1965 (Jan 4, 2020)

Well I stumbled across a 1965 WT motor within 3 weeks build date of the engine in my car. I rolled the heads in lots of cardboard and am sending them off to Butler for porting and rebuild with screw in studs and upsized intake. Apparently #77 heads can't get 1.77 exhaust valves, so maybe a higher ratio rocker arm to keep the flow ratio? I was also going to send the intake for porting but I am rethinking that maybe I want a later intake ported. Anyone know the flow difference between the pre 67 and post 67. Since I will be stroking the motor I figure flow numbers are more critical. I am going for a stock look so not really hunting for aluminum aftermarket stuff.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

I've always been a fan of the odd (Not so common colors) and as indicated a buyer could pretty much pay to have there new Pontiac just about any color.
I have a friend who bought his '65 new and didn't like any of Pontiacs offerings, so he paid extra to have it painted in a Chevrolet color.
Now a 1967 GTO in Iris Mist is not too common, to say the least.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Robert1965 said:


> Well I stumbled across a 1965 WT motor within 3 weeks build date of the engine in my car. I rolled the heads in lots of cardboard and am sending them off to Butler for porting and rebuild with screw in studs and upsized intake. Apparently #77 heads can't get 1.77 exhaust valves, so maybe a higher ratio rocker arm to keep the flow ratio? I was also going to send the intake for porting but I am rethinking that maybe I want a later intake ported. Anyone know the flow difference between the pre 67 and post 67. Since I will be stroking the motor I figure flow numbers are more critical. I am going for a stock look so not really hunting for aluminum aftermarket stuff.


With the #77 heads you are sticking with an overbored 389CI which will have the matching valve reliefs in the piston domes? The valve angle & spacing of the #77 389 heads is different than the 1967 and up 400CI heads. This is why the larger 1.77 valves won't fit.

Assume 4.25" stroker kit. The limiting factor will be head flow, but Butler will increase the port flow and do a quality 3-angle valve job, so flow won't be such a problem. The difference between the slightly larger intakes and stock exhaust will be negligible in flow ratio. Pontiac heads typically want a little more duration/lift on the exhaust valve to compensate for the unbalanced flow ratio. So pick a cam as such.

Keeping the stock look, 1967 and up intakes are generally Q-jet, and will not look stock. Depending on budget, the 1966 tri-power with larger center carb would be my choice and look stock. Stock using a 4Bbl would be an intake using an AFB carb. I would wany at least the 750cfm carb, but it has larger secondary throttle bores and may not fit on top of the factory intake designed for the smaller throttle blades. In this case, I would look to either going era period correct with an aftermarket aluminum intake, or go aluminum and grind all manufacturers names/numbers off and paint factory color. Most today will not know and with the big factory pancake GTO air cleaner, or RA air pan if you go that route, will never see it anyway.


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## Robert1965 (Jan 4, 2020)

Thanks Jim always learning when you write. So when I say stock "looking" I don't wan't KRE heads slapping you in the face. I am looking for period correct with drivability. So don't judge to harshly at my plan. I am going with the Sniper EFI, but I figure it's gonna be tucked under the air cleaner. I am planing using a reproduction 4bbl ram air pan set up from a 67. I'm gonna try manual 4 wheel disc with stock 15 inch RallyII. Yes the 4.25 stroke. Roller cam and rockers. Butlers 8 bolt hi flow Flowkooler. With their performance oil pump. Sooooo stockish? Sorta. My concern was pre 67 4bbl intake would undo my head porting. I did ask butler if they would port my 65 intake and they said yes. Not sure if that would be good enough or if i'm wasting time and $ doing so.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

When you say you want to make it a "driver" but in the same post say it's getting a frame off...well those 2 do not always mesh so well.
Of course a frame off resto is the dream, but when it's done, now it's out on the open road. Rocks, birds, shopping carts, "Life" is out there and it's taken aim at your pristine goat.
Now, I'm not you and I know folks where the cost of a frame off is equivalent of getting the car waxed so it's no issue. But, you speak of budget, like you're me 
Just keep in mind, if it's a really clean car, maybe a half priced frame-on resto might be what you want if it's really going to be driven a lot. Just throwing my .02 out there.
One of the things that attracted me to my '66 was that it looked and drove real nice, but was far from perfect. I like to drive it, so the other day when the guy in front of me kicked up a 6-pack rack and it bounced off my grill, I didn't have heart failure


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## Robert1965 (Jan 4, 2020)

It's a frame off because the current frame is totally rusted out. I am literally lifting the car off the frame. Replacing everything rubber. I will not be showing up at car shows unless it's driven there, and even then most likely a spectator. I just got a "New" 1965 frame back from getting Powder Coated.I have the body unbolted. Hopefully lifting it off around the 22-23 July. I'll try n do a short video of the lift off.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

Robert1965 said:


> It's a frame off because the current frame is totally rusted out. I am literally lifting the car off the frame. Replacing everything rubber. I will not be showing up at car shows unless it's driven there, and even then most likely a spectator. I just got a "New" 1965 frame back from getting Powder Coated.I have the body unbolted. Hopefully lifting it off around the 22-23 July. I'll try n do a short video of the lift off.


Well that would make the difference  May the automotive gods smile upon your project!
Looking forward to some progress report/pics.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Robert1965 said:


> Thanks Jim always learning when you write. So when I say stock "looking" I don't wan't KRE heads slapping you in the face. I am looking for period correct with drivability. So don't judge to harshly at my plan. I am going with the Sniper EFI, but I figure it's gonna be tucked under the air cleaner. I am planing using a reproduction 4bbl ram air pan set up from a 67. I'm gonna try manual 4 wheel disc with stock 15 inch RallyII. Yes the 4.25 stroke. Roller cam and rockers. Butlers 8 bolt hi flow Flowkooler. With their performance oil pump. Sooooo stockish? Sorta. My concern was pre 67 4bbl intake would undo my head porting. I did ask butler if they would port my 65 intake and they said yes. Not sure if that would be good enough or if i'm wasting time and $ doing so.


OK, understood. Considering what you are going with, let's call it "resto-mod." The important thing in my book is Pontiac power for a Pontiac car. 

I prefer cast iron block and cast iron heads as to me it is more period correct and a little bit of a personal challenge to see what you can get out of it with stock cast iron parts. Yep, the aluminum heads have their place once you get to a certain power level, but it ups the build cost and then you have to start looking at drivetrain upgrades and the price goes higher.

The EFI is the good way to go over a carb with the problems you can encounter with heat soak and hard starts and "waking up" the carb if you park it for the winter season. People will not really notice it as you say, the '67 RA pan will dress it up and look stock, yet be well hidden.

Manual 4-wheel discs are a good way to go. Had one of our members who went that route with his big engine/lack of vacuum for power brakes and said no issues whatsoever stopping the car. Just make sure the discs and the caliper attachments are not too oversized and interfere with the 15" rim size. I assume you have a set-up picked out.

Roller cam and rockers will more than compensate for any air flow needs, or lack of it. A roller can hold the valves open longer and know Butler will suggest exactly what you need. For me, the down side is cost, but then again, I like the sound of a solid flat tappet which is what I am using.

As far as intakes, does it matter in using a stock '65 cast intake and spend money on porting, or go 1968 and up Q-jet cast iron - which would be a better choice. Who would really know the difference? Most of it will be hidden by the RA pan. Port match the heads/intake to the intake gasket you use. Clean up some of the casting differences. I have pics of the '65 & '68 intakes. You can see the differences, even in the runners/size. With the other mods, I don't think using the better '68 intake will be much of a stretch and save you some $porting money and provide better results. The aluminum P4B is modelled after the factory intake, but in aluminum. This would be easier to port, lighter, and with a carb spacer, may work fairly good. Paint it engine color. But, I would go 1968-70 Q-jet. 1967 has the heat provision directly under the carb gasket - easy to see the heat channel. Stay away from this one.

I went with Butler's blueprinted 60 PSI oil pump. Good choice. Get a hardened oil pump drive. You can go inexpensive which is fine, or a little more top end with Nightmare Performance's oil pump shaft. I went with it myself. One member had a slight clearance issue that was easily solved with some light grinding, so you want to check for this. Standard sleeved & hardened oil pump driveshaft

Get a later factory pan with the factory oil baffle. This will help with oil control.

On your frame, I would add the upper/lower control arm braces if you do not already have them. You can go a factory style or aftermarket. I went with UMI as they included the bolts/nuts and they are adjustable to fit as needed. They also have a slight bend to clear floor pans without modifications. This will help stiffen the chassis with the higher HP and the 4-speed set-up.

The 10-bolt could be a weak spot, but if you keep stock sized tires and don't go too wide with sticky rubber that grips well, it should live. Hard power shifts........well maybe not. LOL


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## Robert1965 (Jan 4, 2020)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> I've always been a fan of the odd (Not so common colors) and as indicated a buyer could pretty much pay to have there new Pontiac just about any color.
> I have a friend who bought his '65 new and didn't like any of Pontiacs offerings, so he paid extra to have it painted in a Chevrolet color.
> Now a 1967 GTO in Iris Mist is not too common, to say the least.


What an awesome looking car! Wish the 65 came with a hood tach!


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## Jerry H. (Mar 19, 2020)

If you can't do any of the work yourself you should have a budget of 50k for a nice driver restoration if it is a frame off. A concours quality restoration would run in the 6 figures. Just be prepared.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> I've always been a fan of the odd (Not so common colors) and as indicated a buyer could pretty much pay to have there new Pontiac just about any color.
> I have a friend who bought his '65 new and didn't like any of Pontiacs offerings, so he paid extra to have it painted in a Chevrolet color.
> Now a 1967 GTO in Iris Mist is not too common, to say the least.


Man, I keep going back and looking at this. That color is incredible. I want it


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Mine'sa66 said:


> Man, I keep going back and looking at this. That color is incredible. I want it


I think it is a great color, but too much of a good thing if you do not offset it with a black/white vinyl or painted roof. That really does it for me.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

New video by Robert Lewis

THis is the link of me removing the frame from my 65 convertible. Solo. Not sure I have seen anyone do it this way but it worked . Any constructive criticism is welcome. It's in time lapse so freeze anything you want to see. I am installing wheels on the wood frame tomorrow to roll it outside and pressure wash firewall and underside. It will add about 6" to the car dolly height.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Previous is a picture of the powder coated frame. Here is the frame being slid out and the car resting on it's temporary home. Removing the rear end allowed the frame to drop enough to slide it out without issues. I was replacing my flag pole
today so the flag is rolled up instead of folded. It went right back out after this photo.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

XceedVne I love the pictures. It got me thinking about doing a full restoration at my farm. My big hang up has been none of my buildings would really work for installing a lift. I guess I dont have that excuse any more. Thanks!


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## Robert1965 (Jan 4, 2020)

Thanks it was a bit of a challenge to figure out how to do it all with one person. Would have been easier with a hardtop.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I used 4 x 4's set up on jack stands. Used a floor jack to get each side above the frame rail, blocking each side up at a time. Once I had each side blocked up, then I went a little higher to get the 4 x 4 slid under the rocker panels and on top of the frame. Then got my lengthwise 4 x 4's under each pair of 4 x 4's and secured both using L-brackets & screws to hold then together. Then I lifted each side using my floor jack and put the jack stands under the wood frame - but only lift each side a couple notches on the jack stands so the body would not be at too great of an angle and slide sideways. So took my time going up each side very carefully. Got the body lifted high enough to clear the tires and rolled it out from underneath. Made it easy to strip the frame, blast, add/weld a few areas I wanted to brace better, POR-15, paint, and then re-install all new suspension pieces, rear axle assembly, brakes, etc..

More ways than one to do this, but you have to do it safely and use a little thought.


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## Robert1965 (Jan 4, 2020)

Yeah with the convertible I wanted to support the length of the rockers. That was my #1 concern behind safety. 4x4s won't sit flat on rockers. So I came up with jacking up car on frame then lowering the body onto the boxed 2x4's. 
You must remove rearend to lower frame enough to clear body. Then just roll it out on front wheels.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)




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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Got the Axle back from Driveline Service today. Fresh rebuild and powder coated. The frame cutting in on the photo is eagerly awaiting to be united.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

XceedVne said:


> Got the Axle back from Driveline Service today. Fresh rebuild and powder coated. The frame cutting in on the photo is eagerly awaiting to be united.



Looks great. Is that the B&M 10-bolt "girdle" cover to give the main caps more strength?


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Why yes Sir it is. I noted your statement about the rear end not being the strongest so I upgraded it a bit. I am thinking I may paint the cover chassis black so its not so blingy.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)




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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Back from a visit to Marty at PowerSteering.com My parts look happy again. Had the box converted to the 12.7:1. The total over all cost was not cheap. However, I figured I was gonna do this once and wanted to do it right.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

XceedVne said:


> Back from a visit to Marty at PowerSteering.com My parts look happy again. Had the box converted to the 12.7:1. The total over all cost was not cheap. However, I figured I was gonna do this once and wanted to do it right.


Nothing is cheap on these Pontiacs! LOL I don't even wince anymore when I see the price, I just buy it and justify it as you do, I'm only going to do this once and want it right.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Painting Control Arms Today. Must














this Eastwood Paint is pretty Awesome.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

XceedVne said:


> Painting Control Arms Today. Must
> View attachment 139623
> View attachment 139624
> this Eastwood Paint is pretty Awesome.


Eastwood makes some good products. I have used them.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Painted firewall today while sanding it down I found some pretty cool markings. In the middle photo you can see a 13 inside a triangle/trapezoid on the bottom right. In the top photo is a "P" written in some kind if marker. Above the P is a stamped number. Some of the numbers appear upside down. Not sure what it reads. Stayed with the Eastwood Products. Precleaner. Primer Black and 2K Chassis Black Satin.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

On another note. I also got my heads back from Butler. 6 month wait list. So if your thinking of doing your heads get em in earlier. Also got the Butler balanced Eagle Stroker kit with Ross pistons and lifter braces. I am waiting on the cam and hydraulic roller rockers and lifters from them. (On back order.) I am wanting to get their oil pump but they do not have the 60psi in stock only the 80psi. Is there any reason I shouldn't run an 80?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The stamped numbers are on all the sheetmetal pieces. Basically shows the Julian week and plant where the metal was stamped out at. It can be in different formats but most will have the *common *body style, plant, and week. It can be a way of determining if all your body panels are original if the dates are within a few weeks of each other. 

For example for my 05A Fremont built GTO, this is my pass door shell. 2327 (Tempest) / Z ( Fremont) / 2nd week of April 1968 (15) 











Another format found on my cowl or firewall
Z (Fremont) / A (Shift ??) / 4th week of April '68 (17) 











For the oil pump 60# is all you really need for a street car and Butler isn't the only game in town. 
Paul Spotts has some nice items and is a well known builder. I bought my oil pump and other items from him.


OilPumps



As with any oil pump you buy, you need to disassemble and make sure it's clean, relief check ball seated, etc.
Here are some comments I've saved.

*OIL PUMP MODS*
_
Remove the spring, ball and do a visual inspection.
Install the ball on the seat and very gently tap it into the seat with a brass or aluminum punch. This will form a nice seat between the parts. Be very careful here not to flat spot the ball. The punch I use is made of brass and "rounded" where it contacts the check ball and made for this purpose.
Re-install the spring and ball. Apply some dish-soap water mix to the check ball and blow in some compressed air from the other side. Don't pressurize things enough to un-seat the ball, just look for a big stream of bubbles from poor fitment between the parts. Cant say as I've seen any that have a perfect seating surface, but I've seen a few where the check ball fit so poorly in the seat we had to spend considerable time there to get a good seal._

Oil Pump
_Install your oil pump driveshaft BEFORE bolting on the oil pump and pan. There are tangs on it to keep it from falling out the top of the motor.
When installing the pickup screen on your oil pump, an open end 3/4 (maybe 11/16? I don't remember) wrench can be used as an assist to drive the tube into the pump body. You put the wrench on the tube, and it will stop at a raised lip. Tap the body of the wrench to drive the tube in. The pickup screen will align with a notch in the corner of the body of the pump. Some people add extra insurance to retain the pressed in tube by tack welding the tube, drilling/tapping for a set screw, or using lock wire. I have used lock wire and tack welded the tube. Lock wire is easy. 

NEVER rely on the press-fit to hold the pick-up in the oil pump. Grind a "flat" and drill-tap the pump for a small hardened machine screw or make a steel strap that reaches the closest pump cover *bolt* and MIG weld the other end to the pick-up. The pick-ups there are currently using are "soft" mild steel and have no memory to keep them from falling out. Some will say to "tac weld" the pick-up, bad idea and the only one I ever did broke loose taking a big chunk of the pump with it. Luckily it was on a full race engine with a deep sump so it stayed out of the spinning assembly.
Since that little issue we either make a strap from one of the pump bolts over to the pick-up, or drill directly thru the pump and pick-up inlet and tap the hole for a retaining screw. This requires that you take the pump bottom plate off to clean up the metal chips, but it's only 10 minutes added to a the assembly time.

I drilled and tapped a set screw hole 1/4" 20 TPI in the oil pump casting. A set screw with blue thread lock prevents the oil pickup tube from backing out. 

Stock pick-ups are driven in place, then I drill a small hole thru the pump and pick-up about 1/4" from the edge and tap it for a hardened allen drive machine screw, usually 8-32. This is done in the shop vise, then the cover removed to blow out any chips that may have fallen inside.

Not a bad idea. Check clearance to the bottom of the pan, and USE A TORQUE WRENCH!!! (22 lb. ft. w/GR-8 bolts, 18 w/GR-5)._

I safety wired mine.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

052. Thanks for the info. Great stuff. I guess my question to you is what do I lose by using an 80psi pump vs 60? 
Thanks again.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Depends on who you talk to. 
Some of the following reasons are common;
Excessive distributor gear wear
Pump driveshaft breaks
Parasitic power loss.

All the above can be alleviated if the engine is built with an 80# pump in mind

here's a good thread debating the 60 vs 80 # pumps





80 lb oil pump - Page 2 - PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together


80 lb oil pump Pontiac - Street



forums.maxperformanceinc.com





Pontiac Jim can probably explain better than I


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

That was great information! Thanks again. After the read it sounds like 60psi is good for me.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Robert1965 said:


> .... So when I say stock "looking" I don't wan't KRE heads slapping you in the face ...


Not hard to disguise with a little effort. Below are a few shots of my '69's original engine now stroked to 461, running Edelbrock heads, solid roller cam, full roller rockers AND Jomar stud girdles - under the stock valve covers. 

Very frequently people don't notice the heads or the valve cover spacers until I point them out.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Looks Awesome! Nicely done.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

So getting ready to install engine and 6 speed Tremec. Trying to finish up all the easier to get stuff. Just a quick question on the power steering box. I got these threaded pin looking things The fit inside the rag joint perfectly but I don't remember these being there. Are they for a different model car or is this correct? Also got my master cylinder and distribution valve installed for the four wheel disc brakes. Pretty happy with how everything is coming together.


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Well it's been a while since I've posted anything. But as we all know life gets in the way of life. So I got the motor assembled. I got the Butler high Volume 60psi oil pump as well as the crank scraper. For the price both the pump and the scraper looked like a no brainer. I modified a bolt on GM pick up retainer bracket to fit on mine so no welding or safety wiring. As the motor was stroked I had to make a couple of shims to get clearance for the windage tray. The tray then hit the oil pump, so a small bit of attitude adjustment with a ball peen hammer and voila. I utilized a new Canton six quart oil pan with the one piece gasket and corner braces. I installed a Flowkooler with an 11 bolt tripower conversion kit I acquired from Butler as well. The valley pan was from Tin Indian for added clearance from the hydraulic roller lifters. I also utilized lifter braces. 

I purchased an aftermarket aluminum tripower. I know very little about porting and Butler nor my local machine shop were not interested in porting it. So I read and watched videos and read some more. Basically I port matched and rounded and smoothed all the inside corners and edges. I was pretty conservative and reluctant to remove too much material. I took 3 days to do it, at 3 hours a go. I'm satisfied/ mildly happy with then end product. I separated the front water portion from the rest of the manifold for two reasons. One was ease of installation. I had a few clearance issues the the valley pan, and this allowed me to more easily isolate those issues. Second as I am not a mechanic, I am finding I am having to redo things several times to get it correct. So with those two separated I have at least halved any future redos. 
This week I am attempting the overwhelming feat of bolting up my Tremec Magnum with hydraulic clutch to the motor, and dropping it in the car. Then next month it's off to the body shop for new floors!


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## XceedVne (Aug 16, 2019)

Well Christmas Came Late. I got my Manifolds from JetHot my distributor back from Advanced Distributors, and my Starter from RobbMc. I'm happy with everything so far. I only regret shipping my manifold directly from supplier to JetHot, instead of getting a chance to grind down some of the flashing. 
Advanced Distributors added a poly gear and drilled out the small gear roll pin hole for the larger sized pin. They Cleaned and rebuilt with all new parts. I had them add a Pertronix Igniter II, so as to keep the stock appearance. If it works as good as it looks, I'll be thrilled!


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