# An old question from a newby!



## old navy goat (Nov 21, 2008)

I am looking into a 65 GTO and am trying to break down the Accessory codes. Everywhere I look, I can find out that 5N is the GTO identifier, but so far I have not been able to find out what the "W" is when the code is 5NW. Any help will be greatly appreciated!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

W may = Tinted Glass

The below is from a 1966 GTO... I saw no W for Accessories for a 65 GTO. Being the 65 GTO was an option off of a Tempest/ Lemans, perhaps the W code is listed under a Lemans but from what I see all the codes are the same. 
The only W I see was the paint code color >> W= Bluemist Slate Metallic

Accessory Codes

* If there are accessory codes on the data plate, these codes primarily identified equipment or options installed. Some codes only identify option and not specific equipment.
* The accessory codes are made up of a number (except 1) and followed by one or more letters. The number in front of the code identifies which group the accessory belongs to.
* 5 groups make up the codes for example:
* (1st Group) W = tinted glass/windshield, etc.
* (2nd Group) L = 4-speed floor shift, etc.
* (3rd Group) B = rear window defogger, etc.
* (4th Group) F = remote mirror, etc.
* (5th Group) Y = custom seat belts (1966-1967), etc.

You certain the car is a 65'?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

The acc. code 5n was only used for the GTO option on cars manufactured in the Pontiac, Mi and Kansas City, Mo plants. I'm pretty sure the code 5W indicates the car was equiped with the M20 4/Speed tranny.


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## old navy goat (Nov 21, 2008)

05GTO said:


> The acc. code 5n was only used for the GTO option on cars manufactured in the Pontiac, Mi and Kansas City, Mo plants. I'm pretty sure the code 5W indicates the car was equiped with the M20 4/Speed tranny.


I had heard something like that also, but this link to ebay shows a 5N and they say it is an original 4 speed car.

eBay Motors: Pontiac : GTO (item 280286589427 end time Nov-20-08 13:13:51 PST)

Did many of them come with a 4 speed and no console? as I have seen a few without them and was thinking that it may have been swapped over to the 4 speed by a past owner?

Thanks,

Tom


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes you could get a 4-speed without the console.
My `65 has the 5nw in the DATA plate and it has both the tinted windows and a 4-speed.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

old navy goat said:


> I had heard something like that also, but this link to ebay shows a 5N and they say it is an original 4 speed car.
> 
> eBay Motors: Pontiac : GTO (item 280286589427 end time Nov-20-08 13:13:51 PST)
> 
> ...












The 4 speed on that ebay car may be a close ratio M-21, only the M-20 used the W in the 5th group of acc codes.

Acc codes from 67 are similar to 65, here are the codes from 67;

Group 1
E = Soft-ray tinted glass (all windows)

Group 2
L = 4-spd manual transmission 
V = Verba-Phonic rear speaker

Group 5
N = GTO option

The acc code for a console would be a G in group 2,


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## old navy goat (Nov 21, 2008)

Is there a difference in the two transmissions? M-21 better?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Here are the gear ratio differences;

M-20 wide ratio, 1st=2.56, 2nd=1.91, 3rd=1.48, 4th=1.00

M-21 close ratio. 1st=2.20, 2nd=1.64, 3rd=1.28, 4th=1.00


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## old navy goat (Nov 21, 2008)

*The search conntinues*

237275K606441 Not exactly the VIN I was hoping for on the 65 I was checking out in Va. I don't think too many GTO's came with a 6 cylinder, and since it came from Kansas and didn't have the "5N" option code I guess I have to keep looking. IT was a pretty good body, floors had been replaced and the trunk was dry and rust free. I should have known that $10K was too good to be true!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

As far as I know, they only made GTOs at the Kansas plant. Maybe someone took the 389 out and dropped in the 6cyl?


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## old navy goat (Nov 21, 2008)

It has the 389 in it now, and I think the "K" in the VIN (237275K606441) stands for Kansas City. The next number after the "K" is a 6 and I think that means it was originally the 6 cylinder. Also the data panel under the hood had only "5W" in the options section, which should mean it does not have the GTO option "N".


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## Tri-Power (Jan 10, 2008)

6 cyl LEMANS?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't think the 6 after the K is for the engine. Mine has a 1 after the K. But yeah, I think it's a GTO clone. A `65 GTO would have 2"3737"5 in the VIN. Not 3727. Get the PHS packet to find out for sure what it is and what it had. :cheers


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## old navy goat (Nov 21, 2008)

I got the information about the VIN 237275K606441 from a couple of different sites: The 237"27" refers to a 2 door "post" coupe of which 8,319 were built as per: 65 GTO Dataplates/VIN

and the "6" after the "K" refering to a 6 cylinder came from: 1965 GTO Specifications - UltimateGTO.com (the highlighted pinkish purple area). This page also refers to the 27 being a 2 door sport coupe (light blue).

The car does have the frames around the door windows (post), so it isn't quite as sleek looking as the hardtop of which they built 55,732 that year.

How much and how long would it take to get the PHS packet!


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## Jim (Oct 30, 2008)

OK, I missed the answer. Is the M20 or the M21 better and how do you tell which one you have?

Jim


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

old navy goat said:


> How much and how long would it take to get the PHS packet!


$50.00 for the PHS documents, $15.00 for fax back service.


When I order PHS documents (if checking out possible purchases) I will pay a little more for the fax back service and have the documents in couple days. Ordering from PHS is confusing, you have to fill the order form out on their website, then print it and fax to PHS.

When using the fax back service you will get the build sheet and order history via fax. The packet will arrive via US mail in about a week and will also include the build sheet and order history with a few other documents.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Okay, now I'm confused. I thought GTOs were the only a-body Pontiacs that the Kansas city plant made in 65, and I don't even see an option for a 6 cyl on the GTO documentation.
The more I think I know, the wronger I become.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Jim said:


> OK, I missed the answer. Is the M20 or the M21 better and how do you tell which one you have?
> 
> Jim


Jim,

I don't know which was considered better and it's hard to tell them apart, I hope this website helps;

Muncie Transmission Id and ratio guide


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## VettenGoat (Jun 19, 2007)

There was a guy named Joe (his brother had a garage and a dark blue 66 Vette) out by Warrenton VA that was selling a red 65 very similar to mine. He advertisted it for a long time and had it on ebay for a while. I'm in Baghdad now, so I can't check my phone numbers, but you might be able to track him down. Never heard that he sold it. Sorry I can't nail it down more specifically for you.\Mike


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