# Traction Problems



## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Just bought 2006 GTO M6, pure stock, 18" factory wheels and tires. Not my first experience with high HP car. I can not make it hook at any speed or RPM in 1st or second gear. Plus, when car is started it should have traction control on. Mine is opposite. Starts with it off but when I press the button the "traction control off" light goes off. Very discouraged and will sell if I can't make improvements with traction. I couldn't beat a tractor from 0-60 the way it is. By the way, 12,400 miles and absolutely like brand new. This is not an attempt to sell the car. I love it except for that. I am not willing to do any major mods. An upgrade in tires or something like that would be acceptable. Any help would be much appreciated as I am very disappointed. Thanks


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## 06M6BLK (Apr 4, 2012)

The factory tires for 18 inch wheels (235/40/18) are very narrow even at stock power. Better tires may help a little. When I got my 2006 M6 it would BURN the rears at 60mph in 3rd gear (it had $99 nexen tires though:confused). I found an 04 owner with 17s (245/45/17) who wanted to trade due to his strut rub issue. This helped more than I thought it would, and they are still "stock" wheels. There are also a lot more/better tire options for the 17s. Just my $.02. As far as the traction button working backwards, that is a new one. Has it been custom tuned? If so someone may have set it up that way for whatever reason. Good luck!


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks for getting back so quickly. I don't know any history on the car as I bought it from a dealer. I will agree it could have maybe been tuned that way. I haven't had a chance to drive it much as I live in Central NY. I'm hoping that lower tire pressure and warmer roads will help. It won't be practical to put tires not reccomended for the rain as it always does here. Any suggestions on tire pressure still okay for general driving? We don't roll race here, it's all digs. Thanks again


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

This isn't a great car to launch.

Are you spinning(driver mod) or is there wheel hop? What tires do you currently have?

These cars are known for suspension failure that could also make it harder to launch.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Definite wheel hop in the second that I hit the gas on the roll. I'll get back to you on the tires. I have forgotten. With only 12.400 miles, I would hope that the suspension is still okay. I don't even dare to do a hard start from 0. Thanks


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

Do you still have a dealer warranty for your TC problem since it is such a recent purchase with low mileage. These cars have a problem with the BCM Module wiring shorts (You can read about the BCM wiring fix on a Sticky on this Forum). As the harness runs behind the glove box there is some rubbing on some metal that causes a variety of problems including the TC possibly acting up. This could be your problem or my other thought is somebody had the switch out and it is wired backwards.
On the tire question....I have had very good luck with Continental Extreme Contact DWS which are all season performance tires. I am running 245/40ZR18 93Y and am very happy with the traction in all weather.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

I have to go to AZ for a week.
I would like to pick this up when I get back.
Thanks


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## fittrjoe (Nov 5, 2012)

Old Goat , read with interest as I have an 06 with stock 18's... do you have issue with strut rub going with that 10mm wider tire.?I would like to go with a wider set up as well.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Just like Old Goat said - 235/40ZR18 Bridgestone Potenza RE040 all the way around. When I took it for a ride last weekend it was about 38 degrees with 36 pounds in the rear. I would second the question about clearance for the bigger tires.
Thanks


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Sorry - 06M6BLK stated original tire size but no matter - that's what I have.
Thanks


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

I have no problem with strut rub after about 5K on the Conti 245 tires. I DO have aftermarket 18" wheels (Motegi Racing Mr107 18" x 8") without a backplate. 
A cheap Band Aid fix for Peters launch problem might be a set of "drag bags" but there are probably still problems with the suspension IMO.


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## fittrjoe (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks 68 OG


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## 06M6BLK (Apr 4, 2012)

:agree With the drag bags as a cheap fix, although with his low miles Im not sure I would call it a bandaid. My drag bags with about 16-18 psi just about bring my 118K mile rear suspension back to stock height. About 23-25 psi all but eliminates wheel hop on the street (I think 25 psi is the max!). In this case with <13K, I would think that somewhere between 8 and 12 psi should make big improvements.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks folks I really appreciate the help. Sounds like I have my tires way too hard. I hope the lower tire pressure does not compromise the stability. I don't know when I can drive it again as it rains or snows every day here. If I start getting strut rub, will I hear it, feel it or both? If I have problems I will be asking where to get the air bags and how hard they are to put on. I'm sure hoping I can get this right because I love the car but it is ridiculous like it is. If you have anymore comments, please forward. Thanks


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

It sounds like you might have misunderstood 06M6BLK's last response! He was suggesting pressures settings for his installed "Drag Bags" NOT your tire pressure. I would NOT try to put 16-18psi and drive very far or very fast. IMO you should consider getting some better tires that you can count on. The other problem with your TC light being backwards might also be causing your hook-up problem. Try to determine if your failure to launch is coming from getting the power to the wheels or getting the traction to the ground.
The bottom line is that you should be able to find some kind of hook-up with decent tires and the TC working correctly. These cars do have problems with the stock suspension producing wheel hop easily but you should be able to spin the tires to at least get some wheel hop. You might want to read other posts on this forum ie. suspension issues, BCM causing problems (TC), launch threads and etc.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

You are correct. I did misunderstand. I thought he was saying to reduce tire pressure to 25 pounds. I would never run at 16-18. Thank you. I have tried to read other threads but I will re-visit them. Any thoughts on the Brigestone Potenzas? Sounds like you might not think much of them and I have never owned another set. I am paying close attention and I'm thinking your experiences can be of great help. Where can I get the air bags? About how much are they?
Do they compromise the handling? I don't care if it rides rougher. How much expertise is needed to install them? Wheel hop scares the heck out of me for fear of differential damage. I would like to stay away from a tire not meant to be driven in the rain. I don't intend to drive this car in the rain but there is always a possibilty where I live to get caught. Don't mean to be a pain. Just trying to get this car dialed in. Just thought I would mention that I've been pulling tractors for over 10 years. Different game but loads of fun. Thanks again for everyone's help.


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## 68OldGoat (Nov 23, 2009)

I have had some experience with the Potenzas. In general they are really good tires from initial purchase but it goes down fast from there. They are a sticky compound but their useful life is very short. I am talking 5-7K miles when they start to not grip, bad in rain and they are expensive. Like I said in my previous post, the Conti Extreme Contact DWS is my choice. When I purchased my 06 it had summer performance tires I hydroplaned and spun 3 times @ 60mph and after I stopped & drove it over to the side of the road is when I decided on the Conti's My wife's Mercedes Sport has them and they have been great.
The drag bags run around $100 and the installation is a simple DIY (I had the drag bags on my 68 Goat). As far as I know they don't interfere with our already bad suspension. Most Auto Supply store or on line vendors that carry 06 GTO parts would have them.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Not all summer tires hyrdoplane. My PS2s were perfect in rain, could accel hard in rain and no problem going 80 on the highways with everyone else, to the point of below the wear bars. Glad to no longer have summer tires as the extra grip is nice when the weather is good... but I'd rather give up a little to enjoy my car year round.

Drag bags are cake to install. Its better then nothing but isn't the true fix for wheel hop though.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

First - Thank you both. For $100, it's worth a try. I will check into the Conti tires. What are the P52s?


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Just found air bag kit at this site.
Air Lift® 60846 - Pontiac GTO 2004-2006 Suspension Load Leveling Kit


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## 06M6BLK (Apr 4, 2012)

That kit looks very similar the the one I installed. I purchased mine from maryland speed.com, but I believe it is actually an air lift product. If you do install the drag bags the kit comes with a "T" fitting to run both lines together and only use one inflation valve. In my opinion the lines should be ran separate using both of the provided inflation valves. I hear people complain about these bags causing rear body roll because when the car leans on one side, it pushes the air to the other side. This is easily avoided by running the two sides separate. Plus if you spend any time at the drag strip, you may find that your launch will benifit from having a little extra pressure in one side or the other. All that being said, the best way to avoid wheel hop is still to not spin the wheels. A good set of tires and some practice will go a long way.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

Peter Argese said:


> Just bought 2006 GTO M6, pure stock, 18" factory wheels and tires. Not my first experience with high HP car. I can not make it hook at any speed or RPM in 1st or second gear. Plus, when car is started it should have traction control on. Mine is opposite. Starts with it off but when I press the button the "traction control off" light goes off.


Yes, TC should be on when you start the car and manually taken off by pressing the TC switch. Have the dealer that sold you the GTO correct this problem under warranty.



Peter Argese said:


> Definite wheel hop in the second that I hit the gas on the roll. I'll get back to you on the tires. I have forgotten. With only 12.400 miles, I would hope that the suspension is still okay.


Wheel hop is unfortunately normal for the GTO's factory rear IRS suspension. The factory rear springs are weak and were further degraded during shipment from OZ because they had to strap the cars down to prevent movement in foul weather due to vessel roll and pitch in heavy seas. Drag bags are bandaids that work.... change the springs to zero drop Pedders, Lovells or King brand. Off this site I bought new Pedders drag springs (stiffer and higher damping rate) for 1/2 price that slightly raised the rear. I still get hop sometimes that is more dependent on road surface condition and launch RPM. 



Peter Argese said:


> Just like Old Goat said - 235/40ZR18 Bridgestone Potenza RE040 all the way around. When I took it for a ride last weekend it was about *38 degrees with 36 pounds in the rear*. I would second the question about clearance for the bigger tires.
> Thanks


LOL..... assuming your TC actually works despite the on/off start up oddity, the SOLE reason you have traction issues is contained above in BOLD and UNDER LINED. BS Potenza 235 RE040's were the factory 18" tires and rated for "Summer" use. In temps below 55 they easily loose traction when you romp on the gas pedal.... below 46 TC on or not. I've got 38K on the odo and roasted off the factory rubber about 2 years ago. Last summer I started rollin on 245/40-18 Bridgestone RE760 Sport Ultra Performance Summer tires.... good dry traction, no issues in the rain so far and hell no I have no intention of trying to drive my GTO in the snow so I have no intention of using AS tires. I'm not a fan of Conti's because they were OEM tires on my son's 07 GTI, which experienced cord separation and sidewall cracks that Conti wouldn't stand behind. Use Tire Rack dot com for tire replacement research. And I'll state the obvious, when/if the rear starts to hop... get off the gas ASAP and save yourself the cost of replacing the half shafts. 

Good Luck and enjoy the ride !!


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks so much.
I have stated to my friends that I will wait for warmer weather and less tire pressure. I am 60 years old. I've had 4 Corvettes, 65 & 70 GTOs, 70 Superbee and some I just made fast. My uncle owned a car lot (I worked there)during the muscle years where I drove 428 & 429 Cobra Torinos, 383 Darts, 390 Mustang, 440 GTX, Firebirds, Camaros, I could go on all night. I have always prided myself in knowing how to launch a powerful car and often raced my friends cars for them but this one - This one just doesn't hook. Come Spring, if I can work it out, it goes down the road. Too bad to becausue the car is pristine. Thanks so much to all that have helped. I'll be watching the posts so I can learn more. How much for the suspension mod and I'll bet I will need help with that?


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

I'm 57 and also drove my way thru the classic muscle car era while in HS. With 245's on all 4's, I run 34 psi all around unless the car is loaded up when I do the annual RNA road rally, then I run 39 rear and 34 up front. For the strip I have a 2nd pair of 18's covered with 245 MT drag radials that I run at 18 psi.

A couple links for winter parts research;

Pedders;
Pedders USA

or,
About Us - www.scedesignsample.com

Lovells;
Results for 04-06 PONTIAC GTO

King;
King Springs Automotive Aftermarket Springs


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you RBG. You have been alot of help and I am going with your recipe in the spring.
Also thanks for the links. You have given me some hope. It's pretty tough to tell folks that you may have made a $XXXXX mistake when folks think you know something about cars. We also own an '84 Vette. Perfect shape with less than 57K. (too bad it's a slug). 
Thanks to everyone - nice group of folks.


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## SyncTSH (Dec 28, 2012)

When I first got my GTO, I felt the same way but honestly you can't expect much from the factory 18 inch tires. In colder weather my car is all over the place, and I will get wheel hop occasionally. I would definitely have the TC looked at.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you SyncTSH. I went to the dealer today about having them taking the car back.
They said they would but they haven't said at what cost yet. I really thought the optional 18 tires would have been an advantage. And I really believed that tires that cost $366 a piece would perform. I love the car but can't feel good about what sums up to be poor engineering. A basic fail as they say these days. A car that cost $35,000 dollars new, built for performance should not need suspension upgrades right out of the box. I'm not sure what to do at this point. We will see what the dealer has to offer. I do appreciate all the help.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Well - no surprize - the dealer made me an offer I couldn't accept. Looks like I'll have to make the best of it. I intend to replace the springs with the 0 drop as suggested. Do I need the drag bags as well?
What is the biggest and more importnat best tire I can put on my stock 18" wheels?
As always, I appreciate the help.


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## Metallifan (Jan 6, 2013)

The only way to eliminate ALL wheel hop related issues are these:

04-06 GTO LEVEL 2 300m LARGE DIAMETER AND REGULAR DIAMETER 300M HALF SHAFTS

Read through this thread:

A wheelhop fix that ACTUALLY WORKS - LS1GTO.com Forums


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

You gotta learn how to launch the car first. From what i've read and how I launch the car, you cant just dump the clutch. You gotta find where the clutch grabs and then slightly let off the clutch. At this point when you bring the RPMs up you let the clutch pedal up and and hit the gas at the same time. If you do not have good sticky tire you will just roast the tires. This car is heavy so once wheel spin begins it will just keep spinning. This car is not a street racing car. It is great from about 30/40 mph in second but from a dead stop it will spin. At the track slicks/drag radials are a necessity. If you go with street tires your just wasting your time....danfigg


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you Gentlemen. 
Metallifan, I will review the posts ASAP.
Danfigg, I've been driving and owned hot cars for over 40 years. I know how to launch a car which is one of the reasons my friends had me drive their car when there was money on the line. This car is different. Wheelhop is unacceptable under any conditions. I'm concerned about this condition when I am rolling. 
I'll figure it out.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

All that means is your friends dont know how to drive, and at this point you dont have the tecnique as well. You can dump thousands into the chassis and get your results or you can learn the technique in launching an I.R.S. car. Obviously your into street racing and this car will not hook on the street unless your running drag radials on at a minimum 17 inch stockers and tection control has to be off. I turned low 13.20 on street tires at Lebanon Valley raceway which is out by you I think. Start by read this article that talks about the launch technique and keep read articles to learn about the suspension. I would say that if you replaced all the bushings in the rear, you should eliminate most of your wheel hope...danfigg

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hoHICA&usg=AFQjCNH_QSIKj8TwjKQl4UHNyrPWZDaYig


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

*Bushings*

Any suggestions as to what rear bushings and where to get them?


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## 700Rocket (Mar 29, 2008)

Peter, I have an item called a Chip Daddy installed on my car, when I start the car the Chimp Daddy turns the traction control off for you. If I want it to be on then I have to hit the TC button. The reason for this chimp is most people find that the rear brakes wear out because the TC feature is applying rear brake more often than you think. 

This is from Chimp Daddy: 

_Chimp Daddy LLC works hard to make devices which automate manual processes that otherwise you would have to do manually all the time. We call these “Chimps”. Why continually perform a manual operation yourself when you can get a Chimp to do it for you, right? The Traction Control Chimp is a traction control switch inverter. It defaults your vehicles traction control to “Off” every time you turn the ignition on. The Traction Control Chimp has a built in delay of twenty seconds before the traction control circuit is actuated and turned off. This delay is important because it accounts for possible hard starting conditions. It also gives the vehicles electrical system a chance to power up and
accept the traction control state change._


I also run 18's with stock springs and drag bags installed with only 8 pounds of air pressure. On cold days you are not going to hook up the stock tires, period! In the summer I run some Nitto 275 wide 17" 555R tires and they will help with the launch big time. Sure if I jump on the gas and drop the clutch they will go up in smoke. It is learning that 2000 rpm launch with the Nittos makes for a heck of a launch.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

I thought the TC was part of the drive-by-wire system and when the TC was activated it gives the engine less power and not applying the brakes


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## 700Rocket (Mar 29, 2008)

danfigg said:


> I thought the TC was part of the drive-by-wire system and when the TC was activated it gives the engine less power and not applying the brakes


If you have a 2006 GTO owners manual go to page 4-9 and read on. It reduces engine power and applies brakes as needed. 

More information from GM:

Traction Control (TCS)
Traction control will not have any effect on the operation of the vehicle until the control module detects one or both of the rear wheels rotating faster than the front wheels. At this time the electronic brake control module (EBCM) will request the powertrain control module (PCM) to reduce engine torque. The last measure taken to control the rear wheels is for the EBCM to apply the rear brakes. Once the rear wheels begin to rotate at the same speed as the front wheels, the system will return full control to the driver. During Traction Control mode, if the brake is applied to only one rear wheel, most of the torque from the engine will be directed to the other rear wheel which will improve the traction of the vehicle.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you 700Rocket. Is there a way to find out if maybe the Chimp Daddy device may have been installed on my car? This might explain what it's doing. Are you saying that you change your wheels to 17" in the summer or that the tires are 17" wide? I am somewhat relieved to hear the car will perform better in warmer weather. I am planning on getting the air bags and appreciate the pressure recocomendation. I am also considering 0 drop springs and neoprene bushings. Your thoughts on that? I tried to check out the tires you run but did not come up with that size. It came up with 265/35R18 as an option. It goes without saying I do not want to make a mistake when I buy the tires. Once again, Thanks.


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## 700Rocket (Mar 29, 2008)

Peter, the chimp daddy would be plugged into the Traction Control switch in the console. It is a 2" square circuit board with wires installed in between the wire harness and the switch itself. 









The Nitto tires I run are model 555R:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/nitto-nt-555-r-tires/tire-size/275-40-17

The Nittos are for racing not really for a road trip across the country. I drive my car on nice days only and it only gets about 2-3k miles per year. When I am going to play with the boys I install my 17 inch rims with the Nittos and I leave my 18 inch wheels/tires at home. 
I have read a lot of good about the zero drop springs but I don't have a set. I have not felt that I need them since I get no wheel hop and I can hook up pretty nice.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you
You and the other folks have been very helpful and now I have some hope that I'll be able to enjoy this car. I will also only take this out on nice days and put on about the same mileage. I have the tire site bookmarked. I believe I will try and fit the widest 18" tires I can get. That make take some more looking into. When it warms up a bit, I will take apart the console and look for the Chimp Daddy. Hope I find one. All I want is to get rid of the wheel hop. If it works for you, the air bags should work for me. I probably will do the 0 drop springs and bushings as well all at once and be done with it. That won't be until Spring. I sincerely appreciate your help.


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## Peter Argese (Dec 9, 2012)

Finally got to drive the car. You folks gave me some great info. It was 65 degrees, 34 pounds of air in the rear tires and TC on. Much better. Not perfect but much better. I got a hold of the original owner tonight. Wonderful gentleman 73 years old. He told me he put in a B&M shifter, heavy duty traction bar (did he mean torsion bar?) and a reverse switch for the TC like the Chimp Daddy described in earlier posts from SLP.


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## Metallifan (Jan 6, 2013)

TC will just slow you down.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

Peter Argese said:


> Finally got to drive the car. You folks gave me some great info. It was 65 degrees, 34 pounds of air in the rear tires and TC on. Much better. Not perfect but much better. I got a hold of the original owner tonight. Wonderful gentleman 73 years old. He told me he put in a B&M shifter, heavy duty traction bar (did he mean torsion bar?) and a reverse switch for the TC like the Chimp Daddy described in earlier posts from SLP.


Glad to read the TC issue's been solved and you're enjoying the ride.


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## t2ae (Apr 25, 2013)

hmm thats odd....either its just me but i really dont have any traction problems out of my 06 gto 6-speed with t/c off. i can go from a 10mph roll and it wont break traction. it will chirp 2nd and thats about it


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

t2ae said:


> hmm thats odd....either its just me but i really dont have any traction problems out of my 06 gto 6-speed with t/c off. i can go from a 10mph roll and it wont break traction. it will chirp 2nd and thats about it


You must need some MODs then.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

Rukee said:


> You must need some MODs then.


Or simply apply a bottle of Armor All liberally across both the rear tires and have the phone number for a tow on your cell speed dial...


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## Supersam (Apr 21, 2013)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> Or simply apply a bottle of Armor All liberally across both the rear tires and have the phone number for a tow on your cell speed dial...


Bleach works just as well lol. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Mo power!


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