# 74 GTO question



## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

I have a hankering to replace my 72 Ventura II I totaled as a teenager. I am currently looking at a 74 GTO (I know its not a real GTO) and I could use some help here as to its value and things (issues)to look for in 74. It is a nicely restored Pontiac red hatchback with white buckets/interior, ac, pwr brakes, console (w/gauges), tilt wheel and has its original but tweaked 350(57K). It also has the full GTO graphics package. Is there a price range for theses vehicles, can headers be installed? The asking price by a dealer is at around 23K which I think is a lot as I believe the value to be around 15K but could be wrong. 

Thanks 

Steve


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Price is too high unless it is a #1 condition car with a 4 speed and AC. Dealer prices are usually higher than what the market value should be. Do yourself a huge favor; before you buy anything, have a professional inspect it. They will look at things you won't ever think to check. Also, they will give you the correct value for the car you are looking at. 

As a side note, don't downgrade the car you like as "not a real GTO". You have reasons for picking the car that you like. Is the 74 you are looking at a hatch? One other thing that is very cool about the 74 is you will never see another one at any show you go to. A couple years back I went to a local show with over 600 cars. There was not another 70-72 LeMans (only one 70 GTO and no 74 GTOs).


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Missed that you said that it has AC. That does add value. Here is a link to a Hemmings article about the 74 GTO from 2012. The values have been pretty flat since then so a pretty good benchmark to work from.

1974 Pontiac GTO | Hemmings Motor News


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

"...(I know its not a real GTO)...The asking price by a dealer is at around 23K..."


I'd say that's way too high for a fake '74 GTO. If you just like the looks of the '74 GTO, and want one, I'd suggest finding a clean regular Ventura, then have it painted and decorated with GTO decals, etc. And you are not limited to a 350. A 400 or 455 will bolt right in, look the same, and make more power.

I'd prefer a non "557" 400 block stroker. Hey, you could even use the #46 heads and actually make it look more like a '74 GTO engine. That way it would be a real fun tire smoker. And, for somewhere in the neighborhood of what the dealer is asking, you can have the color you want, with a new and more powerful engine.

Hey, it's just one option. 

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/c...-Ventura-2302299.xhtml?conversationId=1382263

How 'bout a '73 with a GTO hood ? Would need #46 heads, stock intake , and Q-jet, to look more original. "...(I know its not a real GTO)..." Lots of sellable parts, which will reduce the price. Then replace with more streetable stuff. 

http://www.racingjunk.com/Pontiac/182542740/1973-Pontiac-Ventura.html

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/pontiac/ventura/1689590.html


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

1974 Pontiac GTO | Streetside Classics - The Nation's Top Consignment Dealer of Classic and Collectible Cars


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

I don't see anything to suggest the car is a clone or fake, it has a YS block which I believe is one of the GTO engines for 74 (350cid 170/200 4 bbl). In my opinion that is a good looking car and may be worth the asking price. Only problem is the car was not painted the original color when it was restored.


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

Original counter offer to my 15K from the dealer was 17K. That would be plus taxes, tag and shipping if necessary and probably is on the high side. However, the car does not appear to be needing anything best I can tell from the photos and questions asked.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Yeah, that's a lot better than $23K. Might be a decent deal. Especially if this is exactly what you want. 

I can hardly believe they decided to paint it orange. My favorite colors are silver and black. So, if it was originally black, why on earth would anybody decide to paint it orange ? Reckin they wanted it to look like an early '69 Judge ? I opted for a silver RA3 GTO, instead of a Judge, back in early '69, just because orange was the only Judge color available when I ordered my car. 

A dark gray or black '74, would look much better to me, than orange. But, tastes differ. 

Anyhow, from the pics, it looks like a clean car.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

17k is still tall cotton for an auto Coupe on a Internet carlotter website. The trend over the last 10 years to throw 17's on driver type '60's and '70's intermediates, etc, to get them to sell, is also a tip off... if you really plan on buying such a car, go over it with a fine tooth comb, quickee bodywork and paint are usually the norm.

A thought... if you really like the look of the '74's, there were quite a few '73 Ventura's with the optional header panel made, as well as '74 Ventura's out there as projects. A '74 GTO hood and shaker aren't that hard to come up with. Nice unscratched, not chalky rear interior plastic, and solid hatchback frames, are tough to find. By going with a project, you could pick your engine and transmission and go with a non AC body for easy of engine installation and maintainance. Best to you, finding a Pontiac!


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

"...I have a hankering to replace my 72 Ventura II I totaled as a teenager..."

I just went back and re-read your original post. Why not go with another '72 ? That way you would have a car that looked similar to the car you totaled. But, a '72 would probably be much cheaper than a '74 GTO. 

You can probably find a clean '72 body, then build it with the engine and drivetrain you want, and have it painted the color you want, for aprox the same price as buying a dealer GTO. Basically you can build a car that looks more like the one you had, but with all the changes you'd like.

Hey, it's just one option to consider. 

Here's a '73, with the older style grill. It has a 4-speed and 350 sbc engine.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Pontiac/182587552/1973-Pontiac-Ventura.html


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

I wish I had your gift for searching! If I could find a 72 Ventura II in mint condition with A/C, power brakes, steering, auto and maybe even buckets I would probably jump on it. If you hear of something let me know. Looking at the GTO pictures more carefully the car is really in need of some interior parts that could be costly like the D/S door panel with added screws and the door handle that's broke. Even the dealer admitted the car was rather rough today when I asked if the owner had reconsidered my offer of 15K. 

Thanks again for your search info!!:thumbsup:

Steve in FL

[email protected]


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

This car does appear to be cleaner.

Stock# 110024 USED 1974 PONTIAC VENTURA | Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57108 | Frankman Motor Company, Inc.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Here is a 1974 Ventura with GTO hood & scoop on the Charlotte craigslist. The posting ends today. Price is $6500. Has the 250CI 6-cyl. Looks to have the Sprint stripe, so maybe a Sprint option? Would make a good builder and at $6500, you could drive it a bit while gathering your 461CI stroker motor, 5-speed TKO, and all the go goodies to go with it.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Look close at the data plate on the car in South Dakota. The rivets holding it on don't quite look right. It looks like one may be factory and one definitely looks wrong. Not sure on 74s but the data plate may be the only place that the car can be IDed as a GTO. I'll let others weigh in who know more than me.

I will say I like the 74 Sprint. I would have a hard time swapping out the in line six as there are so few of those left that have not been converted.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Shaker hood on a 6 cyl?


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

"... I would have a hard time swapping out the in line six..."


I'm just curious. Why on earth would anybody wanna keep a Chevy straight six engine in any Pontiac body. I think this may be one of those cases in which the car would be worth a lot more if it were not numbers matching. Or, at the very least, it would be much easier to sell, with a V8 engine.

I'm not a Chevy fan, at all. But I'd think a Ventura would be much more desirable with a good 350 sbc, than it's original straight six. But, as always, I could be wrong.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Rukee said:


> Shaker hood on a 6 cyl?


That ain't much worse than a shaker hood on a 301 TA. Without the turbo, the little 301 was an insult to the proud history of the Trans Am. Think of all the great engines that wore the shaker, thru the years. Ram Air IV, 455HO, SD455, and lot's of 400 & 455 D-port engines, including the last W72 400's, in '79.

Again, just my opinion.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

My take: REAL '74 GTO's don't bring real money, not even now. I've seen 4 of them in the past couple of years from $600 to $4500, with the 4k cars decent drivers. One was a 3 speed stick car, and red. They are rare, but they ARE out there. IMO, the unloved '74 is a true GTO: a light car with a big engine, stripped of whistles and bells. A LOT like the _original_ '64 GTO, before it became a big heavy car. More power to you in finding one.....and it would be worth your while to look in Hemmings and out of state, as well. Buying from a dealer should be your LAST option, unless you like burning money. Good luck.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Agree 100% with geeteeohguy. Have bought, over the years, quite a few Venturas as cheap partscars, only one '74 GTO, and passed on numerous '74 GTO's as projects, as though they were affordable, just a little over priced for ugly color auto Coupes. Out of all the Ventura's I've bought as project cars, two 2 doors did leave here as solid project cars, nice to provide a few for sweet/strip builds.

few things I'd watch out for...
- If was buying a Ventura or '74 GTO project today, I'd be looking for as solid straight a body as I could find, along with one that had nice black interior plastic, ESP if a hatchback. The lighter color interior plastic will be junk, dont be fooled by freshly "restored" interior plastic. The saddle interior in the linked $17K car...
Could take odds on it.
-On a hatchback, they usually command a premium, but you don't want to end up searching and searching for a solid replacement hatch due to extensive rust. If you do, be ready to spend close to 1k just on a solid hatch, and then one willhave to shipped truck freight...more $$$. Buying a factory bucket seat car and the front seats are missing, the bucket seat tracks are tough to come up with...been there (they may be reproduced now). 
-In respect to the Carlot Tonys with their checkerboard showroom floors, just can't buy from them. So much of the overpriced inventory one will view on the Internet at such "establishments" the cars were hastily thrown together and the bodywork and shiny paint is doing nothing but hiding problem areas. Seen it waaaay too many times. it's one thing if you're made of money, and the only thing that matters is how shiny the carnage looks like on the 10 o clock news. An old painter friend likes to say that, and it's basically true.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

oldskool said:


> "... I would have a hard time swapping out the in line six..."
> 
> 
> I'm just curious. Why on earth would anybody wanna keep a Chevy straight six engine in any Pontiac body. I think this may be one of those cases in which the car would be worth a lot more if it were not numbers matching. Or, at the very least, it would be much easier to sell, with a V8 engine.
> ...


How cool would one be with a tri power 400 and a shaker? 4 speed of course....:thumbsup:


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

ALKYGTO said:


> How cool would one be with a tri power 400 and a shaker? 4 speed of course....:thumbsup:


I suppose if you attach the shaker to the hood, you could put anything under it that would fit.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Looks real nice from the photos and 17k not out of the ballpark _if it's really as nice as it looks._ Since they included a photo of the VIN tag you could contact PHS with it to make sure it's a real GTO. (Although I'm guessing they wouldn't have included the photo if it weren't.) Before pulling the trigger on that much green, I'd take a trip to go look it over in person. Take someone knowledgable with you if need be. A fellow club member who has a 74 says rust in the rear (quarters, tail panel, etc) is a major problem with 74's so be especially thorough in examining those areas.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

More thoughts....
Can you tell how long they've had this car? Also them being willing to drop the price that much over email is sort of raises a flag to me.
Cars that really are nice and priced right tend to sell quickly. A car that hangs around that the dealer drops the price on to move it... there's usually a reason.

Just be careful.

Bear


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

eagleguy said:


> This car does appear to be cleaner.
> 
> Stock# 110024 USED 1974 PONTIAC VENTURA | Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57108 | Frankman Motor Company, Inc.



Seller finally added a ton more photos. I now can see the A/C is aftermarket, the instrument cluster is cracked above the vent controls, steering tilt column has pieces missing, column shift is still intact and the car has some "odd to me" exhaust pipe connection midway where the motor pipes connect to the exhaust pipes.


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

eagleguy said:


> Seller finally added a ton more photos. I now can see the A/C is aftermarket, the instrument cluster is cracked above the vent controls, steering tilt column has pieces missing, column shift is still intact and the car has some "odd to me" exhaust pipe connection midway where the motor pipes connect to the exhaust pipes.


Is the console in this car correct?

http://www.frankmanmotors.com/Inventory/Detail?vid=3106922


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

The console doesn't look like the one I had in my '74 GTO, it had a hard shell plastic "shortie" style console with the optional factory gauges. Sold the car, still have a manual trans tunnel version out of a '74 Ventura. it is also a shortie style hard shell console.

Looking at the full length console in that car, the console lid itself looks like the molded style used on a '73-74 Monte Carlo. Have a complete console out of that era of Monte, sold the swivel buckets.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Eh??? Wait just a doggone minute... that thing's running a ::cough spit:: bowtie 350. That ain't no Pontiac. Take a close look at the intake manifold, and notice the underneath shots. Oil filter is in the wrong place for it to be a Pontiac.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

X2 on the console being from another car. This car would have had a color matching shorty console. The small block Chevy mill is a deal breaker as far as collector value goes. Still, a nice clean car. About 10-12k worth, max. Would be a nice ride with a 389-455 and a stickshift, though!


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

I was thinking about buying this car and cloning it into a GTO but it does not look like it even has vents in the dash for an A/C conversion. And yes I need A/C in FL!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/181940663901?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

eagleguy said:


> I was thinking about buying this car and cloning it into a GTO but it does not look like it even has vents in the dash for an A/C conversion. And yes I need A/C in FL!
> 
> 
> Pontiac Other | eBay


How about an aftermarket under-dash A/C ?

Custom Aftermarket Underdash A/C Systems for Classic & Vintage Cars,Hot Rods, Muscle, Classic or Vintage Cars...

http://www.classicautoair.com/classic-under-dash-air-conditioner.html

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catal...-ac-systems-c-30000000_32000000_38000000.html

http://nostalgicac.com/pontiac-underdash-a-c-system.html


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## eagleguy (Nov 15, 2015)

I have seen these before but do they actually work well? Looks like they would cool my lower body rather than my upper. Here in FL I need A/C.

Happy Thanksgiving!atriot:


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## Red74Goat (Jul 31, 2015)

eagleguy said:


> Is the console in this car correct?
> 
> Stock# .110024 USED 1974 PONTIAC VENTURA | Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57108 | Frankman Motor Company, Inc.


Attached is a pic of the original steering wheel, console, gauges, and shifter for a 74 GTO with the Custom options. Also a pic for what the original rear anti-swap bar for a 74 GTO should look like. A small tac should be to the left of the speedometer, not a fuel gauge. Details on the pictured GTO quite different than the Custom Hatchback 74 GTO that has been in my garage for the past 42 years.


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