# I went with the shorties



## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

At the last minute i decided not to get the cam installed because it was just $ that i didnt need to spend at the moment so im holding off for now. So instead i went for the JBA Shorty headers with the Jba Ignition wires and a K&N Cold air intake and i put new ngk iridium plugs in. I gapped them a little wider than stock, the old plugs were gapped at .035'' and that just seemed a little cold so i gapped the new ones to .050'' for a little more fire. I did all of this pretty much at the same time. There is a very noticable increase of power with just these few mods. Going by my Dash hawk before the new mods I have ran probably over 10 times and my best 1/8 mile time was a 8.49 at about 86mph with a 2.0 60'. 
With the new mods my new best on my very first run is 8.25 at 89mph on a 2.0 60'. And i can repeat this time over and over within a tenth or so depending on my launch. So im looking at about a .24 decrease in my 1/8 mile time going by the Dash hawk so IMO i think these mods were worth it.
I might be going back to the track on the 30th to try to get it on a timeslip if the weather and everything is good. I just thought i would share my results for anyone who is interested or wonder if these mods were worth it or not.
BTW for the headers CAI and Plugs and Wires i spent right around $800 and my only previous mods that are still in use is the predator tune and the nitto tires of course. Im only going to use my IAT relocator at the track to bypass the heatsoaked maf iat because i notice the only way to get the best times is to have these iat temps as low as possible.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Nothing wrong with sorties, expecially when backed by JBA mids. I'm running shorties on my car to stay Cali legal thru stock mids and I make impressive power thru them. Regardless what anybody says shorties do flow better than stockers, are lighter and keep the engine bay cooler. Also .035 - .040 plug gap should be fine on your car.


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Yes the shorties are at least 15lbs lighter than the stockers and i am happy with the added power for the relatively small amount of money that i spent. Im trying to find a good deal on a set of catted midpipes. I guess i will leave my plugs at .050" for right now the car is running great.


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## Stang Eater (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm trying to figure out myself how much power and torque some shortie headers will add to my 05 gto. Anyone know?


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## The Detailer (Nov 1, 2009)

I don't believe you are gaining anything with the shorties other than less weight, Lt's you would see an increase on the dyno of around 25-30 rwhp, You would also want to retune after the installation of headers and full exhaust.


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## The Detailer (Nov 1, 2009)

I would be interested in seeing how accurate the dash hawk is compared to actual track times, You should also gap your plugs at .40 instead of .50.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

The Detailer said:


> I don't believe you are gaining anything with the shorties other than less weight, Lt's you would see an increase on the dyno of around 25-30 rwhp, You would also want to retune after the installation of headers and full exhaust.


Have anything to back that?


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

The Detailer said:


> *I don't believe you are gaining anything with the shorties other than less weight*, Lt's you would see an increase on the dyno of around 25-30 rwhp, You would also want to retune after the installation of headers and full exhaust.


Incorrect! But since you said that you _*"don't believe you are gaining anything"*_ that excuses your misinformed post. Carry on.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

The Detailer said:


> I don't believe you are gaining anything with the shorties other than less weight, Lt's you would see an increase on the dyno of around 25-30 rwhp, You would also want to retune after the installation of headers and full exhaust.


I am still waiting for someone to proove that theory. I'm yet to see a stock GTO dyno, then dyno with shorties, then dyno with long tubes. I want to know extactly what each part is worth before I argue 1 way or the other.

There is a crapload to gain just from a tune in our cars. I would bet atleast 15 HP can be gained on a tuned stock GTO.

Plus, how many people just install long tubes without mids? I doubt very many as long tubes are worthless without doing mids and maybe a catback as the extra flow potention you have created has been funneled back to nothing again. Atleast thats my theory.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

My guess is that there is indeed an application difference in shorties vs LTs. LTs would imply a longer travel time for the pressure waves in the exhaust manifold, and the idea behind that is to add HP up top more than anything. I've never seen shorties used in a "serious" application (only seen 'em on a 305 stuffed in an S-10), but I would imagine there is more of a TQ gain vs the LTs, at least in the midrange, because the pressure waves from each cylinder have less far to travel to the collector.

Headers in general usually shift the power band up a few R's by a little bit.

This is all theory, but I would imagine it's not too different a concept from the rest of the do's & don'ts of "performance" exhaust systems, like bends and pipe diameter.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

RJ_05GTO said:


> ...... Jba Ignition wires ....


I think this is better:


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I think plug wires are plug wires, no matter what. Sure, when they get old, they need to be replaced, but as a mod..? I'm sure I'll get flamed for it, but show me a performance difference.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

I agree, I doubt there is much/if any gain to doing plug wires. Maybe at insame HP numbers there is, but not realisticly obtainable goals for the average person. But I'm sure they atleast do look really good.


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

The only reason i bought the JBA wires is because of the clearance problems with the stock wires. The boots are shorter on the jba wires and they fit great.
And if you believe it or not pontiac enthusiast magazine dynoed these on a 04 Ls1 gto and got 30rwhp. No midpipes. Heck if i got half of what they claim im happy. 
Here is a link to the article on the install and dyno
http://www.jbaheaders.com/assets/articles/gtoarticle.pdf

Here is a link to the dyno sheet
http://jbaheaders.com/assets/dyno/04gto_dyno.gif


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Awsome info RJ.


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks Jpalamar


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

RJ_05GTO said:


> The only reason i bought the JBA wires is because of the clearance problems with the stock wires. The boots are shorter on the jba wires and they fit great.
> And if you believe it or not pontiac enthusiast magazine dynoed these on a 04 Ls1 gto and got 30rwhp. No midpipes. Heck if i got half of what they claim im happy.
> Here is a link to the article on the install and dyno
> http://www.jbaheaders.com/assets/articles/gtoarticle.pdf
> ...


Not bad! Maybe I'll need to rethink my choices...


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Hey, I have a few questions for you JBA guys... when you purchased them, what coating did you get? I see they offer them in both ceramic and titanium coated. I was just wondering if the titanium coating offers the same insulation properties as the ceramic coating...

Also, when you installed them, how much of a PITA was it? Did you install with the block totally cold, or did you use a torch to heat up (I've broken my fair share) the manifold bolts/studs?

I really like the fact that they're stainless, and almost half the price of LTs.


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> Hey, I have a few questions for you JBA guys... when you purchased them, what coating did you get? I see they offer them in both ceramic and titanium coated. I was just wondering if the titanium coating offers the same insulation properties as the ceramic coating...
> 
> Also, when you installed them, how much of a PITA was it? Did you install with the block totally cold, or did you use a torch to heat up (I've broken my fair share) the manifold bolts/studs?
> 
> I really like the fact that they're stainless, and almost half the price of LTs.


I know they have ceramic coated or bare stainless dont know about the titanium(have to check the site). I just bought the bare stainless headers because i dont want to worry with a coating getting scratched up or flaking off with age. The bare stainless seem fine to me. I will hit them with some scotchbrite pads to keep them pretty.

The install was fairly simple... its almost as easy as it looks. I did it with the car cold and was suprised when the nuts on the exhaust flange broke very easily. I soaked them down with some PB Blaster just a couple of minutes before I broke them loose. I was expecting to have to use a pull bar but a long handle ratchet did the trick. And you dont have to jack the engine up like they did in the article. It might possibly make it easier but it is not nessasary. The hardest part is the collector bolts on the driver side. You might want to get someone to hold the top bolt while you tighten the nut. And you have to get some longer flange bolts than what they send with the headers. If you dont you will have a hard time. I got some 3/8'' 2 1/2" long stainless bolts with extra heavy brass nuts(do not use stainless nuts). They worked great.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

You don't need to heat anyting up to remove the headers. Just you PB blaster and take your time. I've never broken a bolt/stud yet doing it this way.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> Hey, I have a few questions for you JBA guys... when you purchased them, what coating did you get? I see they offer them in both ceramic and titanium coated. I was just wondering if the titanium coating offers the same insulation properties as the ceramic coating...
> 
> Also, when you installed them, how much of a PITA was it? Did you install with the block totally cold, or did you use a torch to heat up (I've broken my fair share) the manifold bolts/studs?
> 
> I really like the fact that they're stainless, and almost half the price of LTs.


I got the Ti Ceramic coated headers. I don't know the differance between them really. The web site says the Ti coating will take more beating:confused Other than that they are priced the same. Didn't use anything to get them off but a socket and ratchet. It was easy to install bit of a pain on the 04 because the computer on the drivers side. I used longer bolts for the collector to midpipe connection, used the stock header bolts with some antisieze, and used the stock header gaskets. Took about two to three hours, taking my time and checking other stuff.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> .... when you purchased them, what coating did you get? I see they offer them in both ceramic and titanium coated. I was just wondering if the titanium coating offers the same insulation properties as the ceramic coating...


They are both cerammic coatings.

One is "chrome" and the other is a matte titanium finish.

From my experience the chrome finish last longer than the titanium finish which should have a little more heat insulation properties.

I have a local guy that does work for me.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

batmans said:


> They are both cerammic coatings.
> 
> One is "chrome" and the other is a matte titanium finish.
> 
> ...


They don't offer a chrome finish for the GTO, only natural stainless, silver ceramic and Ti ceramic. Between the the silver and Ti ceramic I can't tell the differance between the heat coming off of them. Truth be told through a IR thermometer.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

I talked to my ceramic coating guy and he said that there are suppose to be differences in how much heat they can withstand and how much heat they will insulate.

The silver will be good to 1300F and most of the matte grey and black ones (titanium) are good to 1700F.

Also, the silver will reduce heat by 15% and the matte finish by 25%.

The white one that they used on my rotors for the RX7 is the same one that they use in alot of high end dragsters.

It's suppose to reduce heat by 35%. A pint of it is at least $300. It's also the least durable of the bunch. In other words it can scratch off easily.

When I used this on the RX7 I noticed that my engine was not detonating. Of course other stuff was coated like intake manifolds, pipes, exhaust, turbos, etc.

Over all hood and intake temps had fallen too.


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

I am buying a set of JBA shorties from a local guy who sold his GTO and never used them. A few questions so I know what I'll be dealing with:

1. Is the replacement of the plug wires mandatory or is it just a cosmetic/cool thing to do?

2. Can I get away with installing the headers without a tune at least for a short period of time and not encounter engine problems or is the tune a must?

For the time being I have no choice but to leave the rest of the exhaust alone so:

Will I notice at least some increase in performance/torque; any difference in exhaust sound versus the stock manifolds? The rest of the exhaust is the OEM and will remain so until I can budget more crap. Thanks for your input/recommendations.

:cheers


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

You can run without a tune. I've seen a guy that ran his longtubes without a tune. It just ran a little rich. You will notice some extra HP but getting a tune will really allow the shorties to use their full potential. It will also make your exhaust deeper and a bit louder. Plug wires are not manditory.

I would recommend getting mids though as the stock mids will 'pinch' the exhaust flow.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

RicanGoat said:


> I am buying a set of JBA shorties from a local guy who sold his GTO and never used them. A few questions so I know what I'll be dealing with:
> 
> 1. Is the replacement of the plug wires mandatory or is it just a cosmetic/cool thing to do?
> 
> ...


Not sure about the plug wires, I had aftermarket wires on my car before the shorties. Some folks said the stock wires came close to the headers. You can install shorties without a tune they don't effect the engine enough to where it will require a tune. I didn't notice a increase in power, but what I did notice right off they are lighter than stock, and my engine bay was alot cooler than with stock exhaust. Shorties with mids will give you the gain in performance.


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## GTOJer (Oct 20, 2006)

OK, I saw this test done. I have no graphs to back up what I saw, but I saw it. Shorties first, then yanked off and LTs on the same car which never moved from the dyno. No tuning changes. There was about 5 more HP on top and 2-3 under the curve (meaning before the peak). Shorties do work, contrary to what every internet mechanic will tell you. If you are after every inch of power, LTs. Also I believe (there is that word) LTs are noisier.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

JBAs website has a chart with base, then shorties, then their long tubes on a 4.6 mustang. There was only a peak HP difference of a few and the power bands were different. Shorties seem much better for street use while long tubes will give you a a higher RPM hp for track/drag.


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback and input. I do plan to eventually upgrade the rest of the exhaust and eventually a tune. Most likely with JBA all the way; I like their setup. Once again thanks and I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Thanks!!


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

RicanGoat said:


> Thanks for the feedback and input. I do plan to eventually upgrade the rest of the exhaust and eventually a tune. Most likely with JBA all the way; I like their setup. Once again thanks and I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Thanks!!


I'm running JBA catless mids and a JBA catback. I love the sound. Even with my 05/06 exhaust conversion, I have no drone. I'm counting down the days ti lI can get some shorties myself.


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

Is the JBA catback a stainless steel? Is it rust prone? Are the tips similar to the factory ones?


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

RicanGoat said:


> Is the JBA catback a stainless steel? Is it rust prone? Are the tips similar to the factory ones?


JBA Catback Exhaust System with H-Pipe - 2005-06 Pontiac GTO [JBA40-3110] - $808.00$569.95 : MarylandSpeed.com- Your First Stop on the Way to Performance!

The tips are stainless, but I think it looks better and lasts longer then Chrome tips. I just billet polish and wax them every now and then. It is annoying being catless as they get dirty fast, but the wax makes then clean in minutes.


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

> The tips are stainless, but I think it looks better and lasts longer then Chrome tips. I just billet polish and wax them every now and then. It is annoying being catless as they get dirty fast, but the wax makes then clean in minutes.


Thanks man. I appreciate the info.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

jpalamar said:


> JBAs website has a chart with base, then shorties, then their long tubes on a 4.6 mustang. There was only a peak HP difference of a few and the power bands were different. Shorties seem much better for street use while long tubes will give you a a higher RPM hp for track/drag.


So leave my LT on my Maggied setup instead of reverting to ST?

I was looking for a tighter exhaust sound. Something to get me closer to that Euro V8. Do the LT make the exhaust sound like she just delivered a 8+ lbs baby?


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

> used the stock header bolts with some antisieze, and used the stock header gaskets. Took about two to three hours, taking my time and checking other stuff.


So, is there a specific reason why you used the stock bolts and gaskets? Are the ones included in the kit not good enough? Not questioning your choice but if your reason makes sense then I'd consider doing the same. Thanks


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

RicanGoat said:


> So, is there a specific reason why you used the stock bolts and gaskets? Are the ones included in the kit not good enough? Not questioning your choice but if your reason makes sense then I'd consider doing the same. Thanks


The stock bolts where fine, nothing wrong with them, also I didn't like the quality of the bolts that came with the kit. I reused the stock header gaskets because they were also in good shape and seemed to be better quality than the ones supplyed by JBA. The stock stuff is reusable, and will hold up to anything you throw at them. I haven't had a problem with them, its been that way maybe two years or more through road track events and everyday driving. Have not blown a gasket or had the bolts come loose, I torqued them down with anti-seize and forgot about them.


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

> The stock bolts where fine, nothing wrong with them, also I didn't like the quality of the bolts that came with the kit. I reused the stock header gaskets because they were also in good shape and seemed to be better quality than the ones supplyed by JBA. The stock stuff is reusable, and will hold up to anything you throw at them. I haven't had a problem with them, its been that way maybe two years or more through road track events and everyday driving. Have not blown a gasket or had the bolts come loose, I torqued them down with anti-seize and forgot about them.


I appreciate the feedback; got the headers last night and will probably install them this Saturday. One last question: The JBA Install inst. recommend to torque the header bolts to 13 ft/lb; I read somewhere in this forum that the stock bolts go to 11 ft/lb initial and 18 ft/lb final torque. Since you used the OEM bolts I'm assuming you went with 15-18 ft/lb, is this correct? Just want to this this once and right. Thanks.

:cheers


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

RicanGoat said:


> I appreciate the feedback; got the headers last night and will probably install them this Saturday. One last question: The JBA Install inst. recommend to torque the header bolts to 13 ft/lb; I read somewhere in this forum that the stock bolts go to 11 ft/lb initial and 18 ft/lb final torque. Since you used the OEM bolts I'm assuming you went with 15-18 ft/lb, is this correct? Just want to this this once and right. Thanks.
> 
> :cheers


I would follow the instructions from JBA as you are bolting on their product not the stock headers. Also please remember to re-check your header bolts once you drive the car a few times


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

RicanGoat said:


> I appreciate the feedback; got the headers last night and will probably install them this Saturday. One last question: The JBA Install inst. recommend to torque the header bolts to 13 ft/lb; I read somewhere in this forum that the stock bolts go to 11 ft/lb initial and 18 ft/lb final torque. Since you used the OEM bolts I'm assuming you went with 15-18 ft/lb, is this correct? Just want to this this once and right. Thanks.
> 
> :cheers


Please don't ask me questions on things I did in the past because I don't remember I'm sorry man I may have torqued them down to 18ft-lbs from the inside out. You'll learn as you get into the motor that most small bolts take 18ft-lbs. because of Al. You can go 13ft lbs if you want if you start to have exhaust leaks the take it to 18ft lbs, it wont hurt it.


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

GM4Life Took about 4 hours to put my JBA shorties on cause we ran out of beer in the middle and had to make a run. Went with the ceramic coating for looks mainly very happy, no true yet, still useing stock wires for now with no problems but do have new wires on the LIST........


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

Update: I installed my JBA shorties this weekend and I have to say I'm satisfied with the change. I guess my expectations were not that high to begin with so the change in sound, seat of the pants feel and throttle response are more than I expected. Since I'm still running the stock exhaust it didn't get much louder if any, but the difference in exhaust note, especially under acceleration was worth the trouble of installation which wasn't hard at all. I thought I'd share that with you all. Thanks for the input provided before.


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Cool Rican!! I didnt notice it any louder either but the note may have changed a little. Just like you my expectations were very low when I installed them so my expectations were very far surpassed with these headers and for the money and what you get I would install these again in a heartbeat. I have no regrets with these headers.


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## RicanGoat (Aug 25, 2009)

> Cool Rican!! I didnt notice it any louder either but the note may have changed a little. Just like you my expectations were very low when I installed them so my expectations were very far surpassed with these headers and for the money and what you get I would install these again in a heartbeat. I have no regrets with these headers.


:agree

I'm happy with them!!!arty:


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