# How are GTOs in the winter?



## Cacophony (Feb 12, 2006)

Are GTOs drivable in the winter? I have a LT1 T/A and it isn't happening. I was wondering any of you drive yours in the winter?


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Cacophony said:


> Are GTOs drivable in the winter? I have a LT1 T/A and it isn't happening. I was wondering any of you drive yours in the winter?


Absolutely! With a dedicated snow tire, it accelerates, brakes, and turns well on ice and snow. I have Bridgestone Blizzak WS50's (about $150 each) on mine for the winter and have no problems. That very controllable rear end slide of the GTO works just as well in the snow. The rear end will rotate when you want it to but stops as soon as you let off the throttle. 

The only downside is the squishy rubber compound and Q speed rating (99MPH) of snow tires. It takes the handling to a new low.


----------



## johnebgoode (Oct 4, 2005)

I'm so glad ya posted this cause I was going to start a new thread in regard to the GTO and winter driving:

1. The car sux in the snow

2. Control of vehicle is almost nill

3. On a very slight incline I was ay a stand still, couldnt move.

4. Snow tires my butt.......this has to be the worst vehicle I have ever driven in the snow. I'm driving 35 years.

5. This car is history, cause I'm going back into a truck ASAP.

6. Oh yeah, did I mention , the car sux in the snow.

7. Car is for sale as of now....!!


----------



## johnebgoode (Oct 4, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> Absolutely! With a dedicated snow tire, it accelerates, brakes, and turns well on ice and snow. I have Bridgestone Blizzak WS50's (about $150 each) on mine for the winter and have no problems. That very controllable rear end slide of the GTO works just as well in the snow. The rear end will rotate when you want it to but stops as soon as you let off the throttle.
> 
> The only downside is the squishy rubber compound and Q speed rating (99MPH) of snow tires. It takes the handling to a new low.


NOT..........!!!


----------



## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm wondering if people haven't gotten used to front wheel/all wheel drive and going back to rear wheel drive is a little traumatic in the snow.

When I started driving, there were no front wheel drive cars. You drove rear wheel drive, summer and winter, or you didn't drive.

I drove Chevelles, Road Runners, etc. in the winter. Did they slide? Yes. Did the rear end break loose if you weren't careful? Yes. Could you still get from point a to point b? Yes. You just drove like you knew the roads were slick, and slowed down, braked easy, etc. 

Cracks me up these folks wth 4WD that get out every snow, and tear around like crazy people. In my area, there's usually more 4WD vehicles in the ditch after a snow than cars.

The other thing to remember; it doesn't matter if you're FWD, RWD or 4WD, when it comes to stopping, there's no advantage to any of them.

I personally don't plan on driving the goat in the snow, but if it's your daily driver, just take it easy, (maybe add some weight in the trunk), and go where you need to.


----------



## johnebgoode (Oct 4, 2005)

noz34me said:


> The other thing to remember; it doesn't matter if you're FWD, RWD or 4WD, and go where you need to.


I'm going right to a GMC dealer tomorrow to get a new Yukon. As far as a stopping advantage, I disagree. I was in an '04 Subn. prior to the Goat and the stopping capacity was night and day compared to the GTO. Hands down it stopped at least 65% better. 
Also I dont like being incapacitated because of the weather. 
I am a volunteer fireman for 35 yrs and I need to be able to get to headqtrs. in a reasonable amount of time when I am alerted. If all of us in the FD were in RWD vehicles the public would be in deep cah cah. 
I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for my remarks, but there is no way anyone is going to tell me otherwise as I am learning first hand what this car can and cannot do in the snow. We just got 13" of the white stuff, and its been a horror....!!!


----------



## GTO_400 (Jul 7, 2005)

Mine also stays garaged in bad weather RAIN or SNOW! And I'd never driven in the snow but I hit that friggin' guard rail in that rain storm last fall. Ever sience then she stays parked in bad weather. I'll drive my 'ol $2000 Explorer but here in WV you have to have a 4X4 weather is so unpredictable. I would definitely not wanna drive the GTO on slick roads that 395ft/lb torque will get ya in trouble, maybe not in a M6 in a high gear but I wouldn't try it anyway! your best bet would be find ya a cheap 'ol beater just my 2cts


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

johnebgoode said:


> I'm so glad ya posted this cause I was going to start a new thread in regard to the GTO and winter driving:
> 
> 1. The car sux in the snow
> 
> ...



Dang...you'd think you would have learned some skills in 35 years. Or, maybe they're fading!

Now be truthful, are you trying to drive a high powered rear wheel drive car in winter on high performance summer tires? If so, then you're not too bright.

Until you've tried a set of Blizzaks or equivalent snow tires on all four wheels, you don't know what you're talking about. But feel free to spend your money any way you wish.

I had a front wheel drive Volvo turbo before the GTO that was "the worst car I'd ever driven in the snow" until I replaced the Michelin MXM Pilot 45 series summer rubber with a set of Blizzaks for winter driving.

As for a Yukon, I also own a 2002 Yukon Denali. It also has a set of Blizzaks on a second set of factory wheels. It does just fine accelerating but it will not out brake or out turn the GTO in the snow. And the Denali doesn't give much feedback to the driver. It's a boat. It won't respond to throttle steer very well at all let alone the comfortable manner in which the GTO responds. I feel no need to take the Denali when it's snowing. None!

Sorry you can't drive.

Oh yeah, and if you think the mighty invincible 4 wheel drive will compensate for poor judgement or lack of skills or bald tires, well....you have lots of company. I see them in ditches every winter.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## cat1055man (Nov 6, 2005)

Cacophony said:


> Are GTOs drivable in the winter? I have a LT1 T/A and it isn't happening. I was wondering any of you drive yours in the winter?


I do not plan to drive mine in the snow, but Can tell you my experiance w/ the stock tires in my driveway that has a very slight slope..VERY LOW traction. Maybe snow tires would help but I try and use a front drive car if it snows. Also worry about other drivers sliding into my GTO. :cheers


----------



## SilverGoat (Oct 30, 2004)

Lots of us use the GTO as a daily driver. This is my second winter. First snow storm last year and I was convinced of the need for snows. Went around a corner about 15 MPH in 6" of snow and fishtailed back and forth about 4-5 times. Put some Blizzaks on it and the driving is night and day. I've driven both front and rear wheel drive and just prefer the rear wheel as it is just more intuitive to correct when it starts ot slip. This car is very controllable in the snow with the right tire. My last car was AWD and the only thing better about that car was the ability to 4 wheel drift for as long as I kept the revs up. Freaked people out to watch me coming down the street sideways.
We've had an exceptionally mild winter here, but when it has snowed, most of the vehicles in the ditch are the 4x4's. My wife's Suburban is 2WD and that never fails to get us around.
Zero traction x 4WD = zero traction.
No condemnation for what people feel they need to drive, but I love this car in the winter. 
Q-rated tires are a bit restrictive, but I figure that since its winter, I really shouldn't go any faster than that as I never know when it could be icy and just maybe the lower speed would allow me to keep from dying in the accident.
Get the car if you don't have it, you'll never regret it winter or summer.


----------



## johnebgoode (Oct 4, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> Dang...you'd think you would have learned some skills in 35 years. Or, maybe they're fading!
> 
> Now be truthful, are you trying to drive a high powered rear wheel drive car in winter on high performance summer tires? If so, then you're not too bright.
> 
> ...


Now there's an intelligent remark from someone that obviously doesnt have any driving skills. If you're gonna sit there and p!ss in my face and tell me it's raining, then you're talkin to the wrong guy. To say that a Denali is going to be out performed in the snow, as you stated, by a GTO then you're obviously smokin your socks. If you read my original post I just came out of a GM SUV 4x4. It would run circles around the GTO and anyone that beleives your fairytale is on the same cloud as you are.
In regard to me not being too bright.......well, "dang", I guess I'm just not as good a BS'er as you are, because I speak from experience. The knowledge I have accumulated throught the years on what a vehicle can and cannot do, you probably haven't even learned yet. Bottom line is the car is not worthy of driving in the snow safely, and there is no substance for a discussion regarding this issue. Snow tires or not, the car sux in the snow!!!
Are you really concerned about the money I spend , or is it that I have it to spend....:cool


----------



## Juniorss (Nov 10, 2005)

johnebgoode said:


> It would run circles around the GTO and anyone that beleives your fairytale is on the same cloud as you are.


I dunno, I think the GTO does better donuts :lol: Why dont you keep the GTO and get a truck.


----------



## MeanGoat (Jan 4, 2006)

My goat drives awesome in the winter. :lol: 

The temps get all the down below 50 sometimes and the humidity drops to less than 50%. The goat breathes much easier than in the sauna summer and you can _feel_ the power difference.  

It was in the 40's today and I was fu-_reeezing_. I almost had to forego the car wash for the week. But I bundled up with a sweater and a knit cap and took care of the baby anyway.

Don't think it should rain anytime soon......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## The_Goat (Mar 10, 2005)

I have mixed feelings... I think it kinda depends on the type of snow you get. We've had snows where I might as well been on ice and snows where traction wasn't too bad. I have the original tires on the beast. I went to see what a set of Blizzaks cost and was quoted 1400.00 by two tire stores. For that I'll by an old 4x4. WTH are they thinking... 1400 ?!?!!


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

The_Goat said:


> I have mixed feelings... I think it kinda depends on the type of snow you get. We've had snows where I might as well been on ice and snows where traction wasn't too bad. I have the original tires on the beast. I went to see what a set of Blizzaks cost and was quoted 1400.00 by two tire stores. For that I'll by an old 4x4. WTH are they thinking... 1400 ?!?!!


Check Tire Rack. WS50 Blizzak's are about $150 each in size 245/45 17.
With a set of cheap aftermarket wheels, you can get up to $1,200.

Even the set that I bought for the Denali were only about $700 total and they're huge compared to the little donuts on the GTO.


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

johnebgoode said:


> Now there's an intelligent remark from someone that obviously doesnt have any driving skills. If you're gonna sit there and p!ss in my face and tell me it's raining, then you're talkin to the wrong guy. To say that a Denali is going to be out performed in the snow, as you stated, by a GTO then you're obviously smokin your socks. If you read my original post I just came out of a GM SUV 4x4. It would run circles around the GTO and anyone that beleives your fairytale is on the same cloud as you are.
> In regard to me not being too bright.......well, "dang", I guess I'm just not as good a BS'er as you are, because I speak from experience. The knowledge I have accumulated throught the years on what a vehicle can and cannot do, you probably haven't even learned yet. Bottom line is the car is not worthy of driving in the snow safely, and there is no substance for a discussion regarding this issue. Snow tires or not, the car sux in the snow!!!
> Are you really concerned about the money I spend , or is it that I have it to spend....:cool


OK so you're another internet forum rich guy with scads of dollars to blow. Next you'll be bragging on your income or your house. 
So shut up and go guy a Yukon. It's a great truck! No complaints over 55,000 miles.
And why would I envy you Einstein? I already own one!

By the way, what I said was that the GTO would out handle and out brake the Denali in snow. And it does. The ONLY advantage the truck has is hard acceleration. A Yukon weighs 2,000 Lbs more than a GTO. Simple physics genius. When changing direction or braking, your invincible 4WD offers no benefit and the much higher inertia your truck generates means that much more force that the *tires *must deal with. Fact.

By the way moneybags, you never answered the question.
Were you out trying to navigate 13" of snow with the stock tires?
I thought so! 
Happy rollover!


----------



## johnebgoode (Oct 4, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> OK so you're another internet forum rich guy with scads of dollars to blow. Next you'll be bragging on your income or your house.
> So shut up and go guy a Yukon. It's a great truck! No complaints over 55,000 miles.
> And why would I envy you Einstein? I already own one!
> 
> ...


PM sent...........


----------



## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Cacophony said:


> Are GTOs drivable in the winter? I have a LT1 T/A and it isn't happening. I was wondering any of you drive yours in the winter?


Absolutely, I drive my GTO in the winter! Sunny and 78 today here in AZ.


----------



## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

I think a few of us just need to calm down. I don't think anyone meant to be personal about their comments.

Talk to any tire dealer. "All Season" tires are a misnomer. All they keep you from getting is a ticket if you get stuck in snow, or have a wreck. (You may still be charged, but not for the tires) The fact is that anything over 1" of snow on all season tires is too much.

It seems to me that it would be cheaper to invest in snow tires and even another set of wheels than to buy a SUV. That said, snow tires on a GTO is not going to take it anywhere close to where an AWD or 4WD vehicle can go. If your range of necessary travel requires a 4WD in the winter, then I think you should buy the nicest one you can afford, and be happy. 

I think the starting topic of this thread is exactly why I got such a good deal on my car. I'm in VA; bought the car from a NY dealership.


----------



## the3car (Dec 30, 2005)

ok the q rating had me worried, checked my m3's, rated v. don't have to keep it below 100. whew.


----------



## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

I had a 91 GTA and a 94 Trans Am, both were the 5.7L V8 and both sucked major arse in the snow.
Compared to those two cars, the GTO with traction control on is a joy to drive in the snow. However, I still wouldn't choose to take it on a long roadtrip in the snow. Also, you probably shouldn't stop on any hills if you plan on making it up to the top. With a running start though, you can make it up pretty easy.
It will work as a matter of necessity, but don't get a GTO if you live in Alaska.


----------



## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

As you all know we help each other out here. Well I've got room at the shop for probably 6 GTO's. I'll keep them warm clean and drive them for you. I'm sure some of the other Goat owners here would help. If you've got FI/NOS I'll drive it at least twice a week for you. And inform you of all the kills. All free of charge. I will not however be responsible for back tire wear Just trying to help out:cheers


----------



## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

haha, you're such a nice guy Iron. Ya think I could maybe send you my whiney, naggy girlfriend too? She'd spend every dollar you've got, wreck your car, and follow you aorund 24/7. Unfortunately, I can't be responsible for your lack of social life while she's there. 
Oh yeah, and she doesn't put out very often either. :lol:


----------



## Warren11050 (Jun 30, 2005)

I was out today on Long Island with the stock tires... True the car sucks in the snow with stock rubber. Don't know about snow tires. I am sure it is better. But 400hp and 400q is a lot for anyting to deal with regardless of tire choice. But I am sure the Blizzaks are far superior. I had a Porsche 911 Targa with snows and the thing was great... But the engine was over the drive wheels. Good luck.


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

the3car said:


> ok the q rating had me worried, checked my m3's, rated v. don't have to keep it below 100. whew.


Yeah, the Dunlop Wintersport M3's are a nice tire too. The M3's are about the only speed rated tire that actually works well in the snow. I ended up sacrificing the dry road handling and V speed rating of the Dunlops for the ultimate ice and snow grip of the Blizzaks. I wanted to make sure the GTO behaved itself.


----------



## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

baron_iv said:


> haha, you're such a nice guy Iron. Ya think I could maybe send you my whiney, naggy girlfriend too? She'd spend every dollar you've got, wreck your car, and follow you aorund 24/7. Unfortunately, I can't be responsible for your lack of social life while she's there.
> Oh yeah, and she doesn't put out very often either. :lol:



LOL!!:cheers


----------



## BigNick (Jan 7, 2005)

I have never driven my GTO in the snow. I do have a 2nd car to drive during the winter (98 Buick Century, picked it up when my last beater died).

Just looking at the tread pattern of the stock BFGs tells me they would suck in the snow - no sipes.

Screwing around with my '04 GTO I found the traction control to be quite useless if you deliberately did stoopid things (like mashing the gas to the floor while making a left turn on rain-slick roads). It just couldn't keep up with abrupt throttle movements. When driving with care, I never had a problem (but that was only in rain, never tried snow).

I haven't driven the '06 with it's fly-by-wire throttle on anything slick yet (and now with the snow I won't be driving it for a couple weeks until the evil salt is all gone) but a few days ago on dry pavement it was really easy to break traction at 10 MPH by giving it about half-throttle in 1st (with TC off).

Of course I haven't seen 13 inches of snow all winter here in PA, it's been very mild - only got about 5" from this last storm (but just 30 miles away the snowfall was double or more).


----------



## dizz81 (Jan 29, 2006)

I have no problem driving it in the snow.. With snow tires.. lol.. I tried once when I was in PA with the summer tires on it only cause I was on the way to the dealership to get the snow tires put on.. OMG did that drive suck.. I thought I was going to die.. But afterwards with the snow tires.. Not a problem.. I love giving it some gas and getting the car to break loose.. We haven't had a real "winter" here in va but when it did snow and I drove the car it was in pa during christmas.. only problem I had was having to control myself from making the car fishtail cause it was so much fun.. but the car was solid otherwise..


----------



## cat1055man (Nov 6, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> OK so you're another internet forum rich guy with scads of dollars to blow. Next you'll be bragging on your income or your house.
> So shut up and go guy a Yukon. It's a great truck! No complaints over 55,000 miles.
> And why would I envy you Einstein? I already own one!
> 
> ...


This post is an example of what we should avoid in this forum..Let's skip the personal insults directed at other members. We should try sticking to our technical views and observations. :cheers


----------



## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

cat1055man said:


> This post is an example of what we should avoid in this forum..Let's skip the personal insults directed at other members. We should try sticking to our technical views and observations. :cheers



I agree but you quoted the wrong one. You should have quoted the disgruntled member that does not understand that a GTO is a sports car not a sport utility vehicle. I have 275 P-Zero's on my GTO and it is awesome in the snow compared to most other vehicles I have driven and that does include a 2003 4x4 durango. Good tires with tread left on them and knowing how to drive in the snow make a huge difference. I have 3 other cars to choose from and still drove the GTO all weekend in the 26" that fell. Ofcoarse the car wont go through more that 5" because of clearance but even on roads that were not freshly plowed the car still moves. Remember to turn the T/C off if you start to get stuck. I also have a question about how does the A4 handle?? I have a manual and being able to feather the gas and play with the clutch do play a big part in snow driving. I also know that it is more drivable than most rwd BMW's and Mustangs that I saw on the side of the road.


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

cat1055man said:


> This post is an example of what we should avoid in this forum..Let's skip the personal insults directed at other members. We should try sticking to our technical views and observations. :cheers


Thanks mommy! 

Now everybody sing..........


We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving

There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me


----------



## C5ORGTO (Dec 30, 2004)

I think the GTO is pretty good in snow. I had a 98 Vette and took it out in the snow once. The Vette has way too low ground clearance, and the stock tires are too wide. The GTO however has quite a bit of ground clearance, and the stock tires really are not that wide. I had to drive my winter car 2 days this year so far and that was when there was over 8-9 inches of snow on the road. I drive my GTO in the snow, plenty of weight, and traction control.


----------



## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

baron_iv said:


> I had a 91 GTA and a 94 Trans Am, both were the 5.7L V8 and both sucked major arse in the snow.
> Compared to those two cars, the GTO with traction control on is a joy to drive in the snow. However, I still wouldn't choose to take it on a long roadtrip in the snow. Also, you probably shouldn't stop on any hills if you plan on making it up to the top. With a running start though, you can make it up pretty easy.
> It will work as a matter of necessity, but don't get a GTO if you live in Alaska.


I agree. Perhaps these guys are talking about 6 spds. which, of course, takes a lot more finese with throttle, shifting and braking to manage on ice. I was up in northern Arkansas yesterday and last night with my Goat, which incidently is an auto, and had no more problems handling the slick stuff than with any other RWD vehicle I have driven. Did the rear end ever break loose? Yes but backing off the power pedel corrected it soon enough. Going up slopes required a bit of planning with the momentum needed and stopping took an equal amount of foresight. Will it pull through deep snow or up an icy incline like a 4WD? No, it's RWD with street tires for Pete's sake. I will say this: 90% of my driving is in a RWD pickup and the GTO is on an equal on ice as my pickup (Silverado 1500).

So is the Goat an ice machine? No, it will not compete with the likes of a Yukon or a Hummer but you can drive on the slick stuff if necessary. I guess if I lived further north in the land of snow and ice, I would have a second vehicle better suited for those conditions if daily driving in those conditions was mandatory.

For what it's worth, my opinion. Gotta get some sleep now. -Jim


----------



## vette68 (Oct 8, 2005)

I don't get it... My Goat is my daily driver, with the stock BFG's on it, and I don't have any particular problem with controlling the car. I used to have a '94 Ford Probe GT that came with Goodyear Eagle Gatorbacks, and that was scary to drive in the snow. A decent set of all seasons took care of that problem. Realistically, what do you have, 4 maybe 5 days out of the year that the snow is actually too much to drive in? Within 24 hours (usually less) around here, the roads are always plowed to the point where they're driveable, and I live in Cleveland, OH, where there's plenty of snow. So, I don't get why anyone would base their car buying decisons on conditions that represent about 1% of your normal driving conditions. Suck it up, ease off the throttle, and play hard the rest of the 99% of the year. I actually enjoy breaking the back end lose around corners in the snow. Free ride without the expense of tire wear. 

That's my 2¢, anyway...


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Cottonfarmer said:


> I agree. Perhaps these guys are talking about 6 spds. which, of course, takes a lot more finese with throttle, shifting and braking to manage on ice.


Man, the erroneous information in this thread is amazing. 

With the 6 spd you have instant torque management at your control. I can start in 2nd or 3rd to limit torque and wheelspin. Likewise I can instantly shift to a higher gear while rolling to limit torque to the wheels . I can also feather the clutch if needed. You can't do that with the 4L65E automatic. 

My Volvo 850 Turbo could do something similar because the auto transmission had a "Winter Mode" that locked it out of first gear. All you can do with an auto is mash the go pedal or not.

It's not that the M6 requires more finesse. It gives you a more options to deal with any situation. 

Comments like "it takes a lot more finese with throttle, shifting and braking to manage on ice" give the impression to a potential buyer that you'll be frantically rowing through the gears while clutching like a madman and alternately stabbing at the throttle and brake pedal. Nothing could be further from the truth. In low traction situations, mild (slow and easy) control inputs are the order of the day.

As for braking on snow, ice, or dry asphalt, what possible effect does your transmission have? 

Now tires on the other hand can have a huge impact. Get rid of the summer tires or OEM all seasons and put on some high quality dedicated snow tires and you'll be amazed at how well the GTO does with an A4 or M6.


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Oh yeah.......One big failing of the GTO in snow or dry roads.

The damned Parking Brake should be an E-Brake. Parking brakes are a waste but that's what you get with GM/Pontiackkk. All they know are the foot operated parking brakes from granny's Buick and Olds sedans.

The thing is useless for rotating the car with any control.
Have to use a stab at the throttle and rapid steering to induce massive oversteer and still not as good as an E-brake.
No bootleg turns for the GTO.   

It's stuff like this that makes me miss Euro cars.


----------



## Cottonfarmer (Jul 11, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> Man, the erroneous information in this thread is amazing.
> 
> With the 6 spd you have instant torque management at your control. I can start in 2nd or 3rd to limit torque and wheelspin. Likewise I can instantly shift to a higher gear while rolling to limit torque to the wheels . I can also feather the clutch if needed. You can't do that with the 4L65E automatic.
> 
> ...


I didn't have any trouble driving on the ice so let's just say we have a difference of opinion, in a friendly way. -Jim


----------

