# I Need Help with my VIN. Does anybody know....



## 70Judge (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi Everybody, Newbie here. I have a 1970 GTO that came without the vin or data plate. I wanted to know if anyone can see from this photo of where the hidden vin on the firewall would be. I was told that it's just to the left of the heater/ac opening, is that true? Thanks..


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

70Judge said:


> Hi Everybody, Newbie here. I have a 1970 GTO that came without the vin or data plate. I wanted to know if anyone can see from this photo of where the hidden vin on the firewall would be. I was told that it's just to the left of the heater/ac opening, is that true? Thanks..


The V.I.N. is located on top of the instrument panel. You can see it thru the windshield. The data plate is under the hood, drivers side firewall. How do you plan on registering it without a v.i.n.?


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Welcome to the forum. IF there is a partial hidden VIN on the firewall it would be in the area around the blower hole on the right side. It would only be the last 6 digits and would NOT indicate if it was a GTO. I should caution you that I think ALL GTO's in 70 came factory with front disc brakes. If that is fact, what you have there isn't a GTO. Like Greengoat said, it will be extremely difficult to get a valid title for a car missing it's VIN tag. You will have to have it inspected by a state trouper and file for a new, state issued VIN tag. Hopefully, you don't have much in it or you can get your money back and get a body with tags.


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## 70Judge (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks for replying GreenGoat and Too many, You said "if" there is a partial vin, does that mean that some gto's had partial vins stamped by the blower hole and some did not? I was told that ALL 1970 gto's had the partial vin either by the ac/heater hole or by the blower hole. And I also know that the only way to tell what kind of car it really is (model, options, etc,) is by the PHS, but I need to locate the vin first. And regarding the front drums, the previous owner told me that it had 4 wheel disk brakes, but he took them off and replaced them with drums so it would roll (?). And regarding titling the car, I'll figure that out when I get to that step, I'm just trying to locate the vin first so I can get a PHS, so then I'll know where to go from there. Thanks.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

I misread your original question. I didn't see the word "partial". I thought you were looking for the full v.i.n. by the heater on the firewall. I hope someone has an answer to your question. If there IS a partial v.i.n. located where you were told, one could compare that to the tag and see if they matched or not(those of us who have tags). If not, then the tag was probably removed from another body and attached to the current body. Not sure I'd want to know that info at this point....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the v.i.n. stamped on top of the frame rail behind the drivers side rear tire? Or, am I thinking of something else? I guess if it is, it wouldn't necessarily match the body tho either... I see a potential headache in the making......


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Yes, there could be a partial VIN stamped into the top side of the frame rail behind the left rear tire. The issue with finding a partial VIN in either area is that it is partial. It DOES NOT include the prefix that would indicate what model it is. It would be in the format of 0 for 70 P, B, 1 etc for the plant code and then the 6 sequence number of the VIN. You can piece together the rest of it assuming it's a GTO as 24237 but if it comes up blank at PHS then you would need to submit another request using the LeMans prefix 37 for Sport, 35 for LeMans, and 33 for Tempest until they found it.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

68greengoat said:


> I misread your original question. I didn't see the word "partial". I thought you were looking for the full v.i.n. by the heater on the firewall. I hope someone has an answer to your question. If there IS a partial v.i.n. located where you were told, one could compare that to the tag and see if they matched or not(those of us who have tags). If not, then the tag was probably removed from another body and attached to the current body. Not sure I'd want to know that info at this point....
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the v.i.n. stamped on top of the frame rail behind the drivers side rear tire? Or, am I thinking of something else? I guess if it is, it wouldn't necessarily match the body tho either... I see a potential headache in the making......





Too Many Projects said:


> Yes, there could be a partial VIN stamped into the top side of the frame rail behind the left rear tire. The issue with finding a partial VIN in either area is that it is partial. It DOES NOT include the prefix that would indicate what model it is. It would be in the format of 0 for 70 P, B, 1 etc for the plant code and then the 6 sequence number of the VIN. You can piece together the rest of it assuming it's a GTO as 24237 but if it comes up blank at PHS then you would need to submit another request using the LeMans prefix 37 for Sport, 35 for LeMans, and 33 for Tempest until they found it.


:agree

Changing disk brakes to drum brakes would require removing the axels from the rear and installing drum backing plates front and rear and would require a different brake line on the differential. Also, rear disk brake were not an option on the early GTO.

There is a partial VIN located on the left rear frame rail (on the outer side) just behind the rear drivers tire. If the last 6 digits on the VIN start with a 6 (600001) the car would be a 6 cylinder, V-8 cars started with a 1 (100001).

Look for evidence of dual exhaust pipe hangers which were standard for the GTO, also I believe the 70 GTO had boxed rear lower control arms with a sway bar, the 455cid Judge came standard with a type-c 12 bolt rear end and the left trunk torque rod was heavy duty to lift the added weight of the spoiler.

The first part of the frame vin is missing but you could run PHS using 242370 and the frame vin I believe includes the code for the production plant. GTO did not offer a b-pillar in 70, I believe the tempest did have the post option.

I'm not that familiar with the 2nd generation, my knowledge is from 64 thru 67, I don't believe the VIN was stamped anywhere on the firewall, the bodies should only be stamped with the GM or fisher part number. 

Good luck and welcome to the forum,


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## 70Judge (Dec 11, 2009)

Does anyone know what kind of motor mounts those are? They're welded on...


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Those are '73 and up motor mounts. The piece that bolts on the engine is generally known as a "clam shell". The mounts are generic across much of the GM line to reduce different parts and inventory. IF the engine you select to install is a newer block that will accept the clam shell, they will work. The unknown is if they are located correctly for a Pontiac. They could be placed for a Chev engine too.......


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