# To Clone Or Not To Clone?



## goatlvr67 (Oct 14, 2012)

Hi, I'm a new member to this forum as of today and wanted to tackle a recurring topic of conflict I've had for years... to clone or not to clone a GTO?

A little background on my pure love for GTOs... specifically '67's... my dad started taking me to car shows when I was little, and I believe I was 12 when I first realized I was drawn to this car in particular amongst the thousands of other makes and styles of cars at the shows. I'll always remember the time I saw a turquoise hardtop, original-owner '67 for sale at a Goodguys show with my dad at age 15 (1997). The elderly owner told us the car had been garaged since he bought it new, and was selling it for only $4,000!!! As I had to commute to high school, my dad (though a passionate car guy), thought it was not the best option for me economically to have as my first high-school car. Though I was sad we didn't buy it, I understood his reasoning. I wasn't the kind of kid who pitched a hissy-fit if I didn't get my own way. Still haven't forgotten about that car, though (and have to mention here, it would probably be worth at least 10x that today! ) Hindsight's 20/20... Moving on...

Today, I am 30... don't have my '67 yet, but still lust after them. I believe the '67 Goat is truly my "soul car", if those exist. I always keep my eyes casually on the market just for fun, but as a small business owner, how can I really afford a numbers-matching real GTO for at least $20,000, and at that price, likely requiring thousands more in restoration costs? So naturally, the idea of cloning a GTO has come up in an attempt to look at this issue realistically and economically. 

I was raised by an orthodox car guy though, and the appreciation for bone-stock vintage vehicles was instilled in me from a young age. So when over the years I've been asked by friends "why don't you just buy an inexpensive, solid Tempest or LeMans and clone a GTO?"', that question made me sick. How could I do that? How could I be okay not driving the REAL thing, and furthermore, having to admit to people it's a clone? What's the deal if I took a cloned car to a car show (though that's pretty insignificant to me, I just want the car as my daily driver, not an overly-pampered show car...)?

To be perfectly honest, I just don't want to wait 30 or 40 more years to be driving my '67 Goat, as I'm assuming it will take me that long to save for a TRUE one. So again comes the perpetual question... do I open my mind to cloning one, despite being somewhat of a purist? Or do I wait (and wait, and wait, and wait...) till I'm able to afford the REAL thing? :confused

Any and all feedback on this matter would be appreciated... :seeya


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Not to clone. In this economy, a nice solid '67 GTO hardtop can be had for less than 20k, ready to drive and enjoy. Really nice examples can be had for around 30k or a bit less. Go with your heart. Get a real GTO. Tempest's and LeMans's are great cars too, and are in my opinion, above cloning. If you get a Tempest or Lemans, enjoy it for what it is or build it up with an awesome drivetrain. These days, clones are everywhere. Pretty rare to see a real Tempest or LeMans anymore. Also, consider financing for your classic. It's done all the time, and you'll be making payments on a car that is going UP in value as time passes, not going DOWN like a new car.


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## gotyorgoat (Jun 19, 2011)

Why not buy a clone that someone else has already completed for ~$12k? Save yourself several thousand dollars and alot of work. To me there is no shame in driving a really nice muscle car, clone or not.


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## AdamIsAdam (Oct 15, 2012)

Here's a moral question that I believe was part of the OP's questions: do you freely admit the clone at a local cruise? (Assume the car is a 64, 65 where the VIN didn't immediately give away the family secret.)


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I faced the same questions through my build, even to the point of filling all the trim holes before paint, but in the end i chose to keep the 99.9% intact and factory Tempest Custom for the most part as was and updated the suspension, Interior and drive train to GTO++ specs. I still have all the parts including the 326 in the shop to make it back to factory. As far as restoring or cloning anything the only value is in the lower price of the foundation car, and by the time you add up parts (all GTO demanding top dollar) and labor even on a body on re-paint you will be over 20K, so like the guys say if you want one to drive NOW, get 20K in hand and find one done. Welcome to the forum.....and i have parked next to 100's of GTO's at shows, but only two other nice Tempest/LeMans.


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## fireshriner (Nov 23, 2012)

just my opinion but i would buy a GTO clone before i would build one.
reason be is that you could purchase one at a great price due to being a fake.
but if you try to build one then you put more in it than it's worth.
captilize on someone elses project.
I just have purchased a 69 GTO (#'s matching) and my original plans were to make a Judge clone after a lot of thought and since i don't have the funds to change everything on it to make a great fake i decided to just stay with a great looking GTO and then everyone who walks up(if it was a judge clone) would not ask is it a Real Judge ?


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## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

All good feedback for you to consider. When looking for my car last year, I was open to any 65-67 GTO/LeMans/Tempest, as I personally think the "GTO thing" is a little over-hyped. My requirements were that the car had to have vertical headlights and a 4spd.

Nontheless, I did end up paying $20K for a solid 4spd GTO. Was orignal tri-power car, but came with a smogger 400 and Olds "12-bolt" rear (just sold that for $140). Big advantage with my car is that it was local, and did not have to spend $$$ on travel and/or shipping. It seems that car values have even dropped more from last year, so again, you can probably find a pretty nice ride for $20K, especially if you are open to an auto trans. The area you live will also play a role. When I was looking, it seemed every car was on either coast or texas, and the cars were bringing more money in the upper midwest.

All said & done, I will have about $25-26K in my car and on a good day, still should be worth about $20K... 

Good luck, and spend plenty of time looking and kicking tires!!


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## DSMTiger (Nov 17, 2012)

geeteeohguy said:


> Not to clone. In this economy, a nice solid '67 GTO hardtop can be had for less than 20k, ready to drive and enjoy. Really nice examples can be had for around 30k or a bit less. Go with your heart. Get a real GTO. Tempest's and LeMans's are great cars too, and are in my opinion, above cloning. If you get a Tempest or Lemans, enjoy it for what it is or build it up with an awesome drivetrain. These days, clones are everywhere. Pretty rare to see a real Tempest or LeMans anymore. Also, consider financing for your classic. It's done all the time, and you'll be making payments on a car that is going UP in value as time passes, not going DOWN like a new car.


:agree. I'm not against clones but when you have one it seems that you have to spend time explaining it. If you have a really nicely done Lemans you don't have to explain anything and the car will likely be worth more than the clone. Your choice, your money, but you asked for opinions and I just gave you my 2 cents. Good luck with your search and final decision.


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## joesweeting (May 8, 2011)

Dont clone, I bought a Judge clone because I liked the color combination. I removed "The Judge" decals since it was a clone. I would have like to of purchased a Judge but it was out of my price range. 

Of course about 6 months after I bought my GTO, one did show up on ebay without an engine that was in my price range. 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## 44070dart (Mar 25, 2010)

*clone it*

your answer is in your question .."To be perfectly honest, I just don't want to wait 30 or 40 more years to be driving my '67 Goat" ... who says you have 30/40 years ...I bought a 65 Tempest that is now a 65' GTO ..I go to cruise nights so I made a sign for the dash .. NO IT WASN'T BORN THIS WAY ..
I'm an old gray beard and I can't spend 15/20 grand on a hobby car so my 8 grand "GTO" looks like I want it to look ..I don't lie about it or care about others attitude concerning it ...when I sell it I will tell them exactly what it is ..


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Make the car what you want it to be. Anyone who would scoff at you for cloning a car isn't worthy of the hobby. There are purist snobs in every pass time on earth, God bless em' for keeping the roots alive but they shouldn't look down their noses at everyone else... just my .02


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## ppurfield001 (Jan 21, 2008)

goatlvr67 said:


> Hi, I'm a new member to this forum as of today and wanted to tackle a recurring topic of conflict I've had for years... to clone or not to clone a GTO?
> 
> A little background on my pure love for GTOs... specifically '67's... my dad started taking me to car shows when I was little, and I believe I was 12 when I first realized I was drawn to this car in particular amongst the thousands of other makes and styles of cars at the shows. I'll always remember the time I saw a turquoise hardtop, original-owner '67 for sale at a Goodguys show with my dad at age 15 (1997). The elderly owner told us the car had been garaged since he bought it new, and was selling it for only $4,000!!! As I had to commute to high school, my dad (though a passionate car guy), thought it was not the best option for me economically to have as my first high-school car. Though I was sad we didn't buy it, I understood his reasoning. I wasn't the kind of kid who pitched a hissy-fit if I didn't get my own way. Still haven't forgotten about that car, though (and have to mention here, it would probably be worth at least 10x that today! ) Hindsight's 20/20... Moving on...
> 
> ...


Do what you want to do. There are good reasons to keep the car original and good reasons to clone or resto-mod the car. My car is resto-modded with updated suspension, carburetor, camshaft, steering, brakes, 2005 GTO seats, three-point seat belts and American Racing wheels. In my view, it's just a matter of taste and your budget. Do whatever brings a smile to your face..........


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## TTA89 (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't see a problem building a clone, not everyone can afford the real thing.


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## kilkm68 (May 5, 2011)

Don't have a second thought about buying a clone and enjoying it. I love cars, originals, restored, hot rods, doesn't matter. I know there are a lot of different factions within the car hobby, but do what ever you enjoy. I've got a clone now, fastest and most fun car I've ever owned. I like to look at the correct numbers matching examples at shows, I think there great, but I also like modified/hot rods. My '68 LeMans/GTO clone I currently have would blow the doors clear off the stock '70 "real" GTO that I had previously. With a Butler 474, jacked up Buick 200 4R tranny and 373 gears this car is a beast. The only comments I get are, "love your car, man thats bad-ass," and lots of thumbs up. The only way 99.9% of the people would know it's a "clone" is to look at the VIN number, but I make no bones about, I list it as a LeMans/GTO and will tell anybody who inquires it's a clone, it's not a big deal to me. I also feel that with all the mods on this car I haven't altered a real piece of the automotive history, the legend, the GTO. If I get a purist who turns their nose up at it at a show, I just tell 'em to bring there "real" GTO out on the blacktop and I'll send them home with there tail between their legs! If you Love and want a GTO, don't wait for years to save for an expensive original. Get one you can afford and enjoy your passion! You might get run over by a truck tomorrow, tomorrow is promised to no one.


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## Groundczero (Nov 28, 2012)

kilkm68 said:


> Don't have a second thought about buying a clone and enjoying it. I love cars, originals, restored, hot rods, doesn't matter. I know there are a lot of different factions within the car hobby, but do what ever you enjoy. I've got a clone now, fastest and most fun car I've ever owned. I like to look at the correct numbers matching examples at shows, I think there great, but I also like modified/hot rods. My '68 LeMans/GTO clone I currently have would blow the doors clear off the stock '70 "real" GTO that I had previously. With a Butler 474, jacked up Buick 200 4R tranny and 373 gears this car is a beast. The only comments I get are, "love your car, man thats bad-ass," and lots of thumbs up. The only way 99.9% of the people would know it's a "clone" is to look at the VIN number, but I make no bones about, I list it as a LeMans/GTO and will tell anybody who inquires it's a clone, it's not a big deal to me. I also feel that with all the mods on this car I haven't altered a real piece of the automotive history, the legend, the GTO. If I get a purist who turns their nose up at it at a show, I just tell 'em to bring there "real" GTO out on the blacktop and I'll send them home with there tail between their legs! If you Love and want a GTO, don't wait for years to save for an expensive original. Get one you can afford and enjoy your passion! You might get run over by a truck tomorrow, tomorrow is promised to no one.


You said it awsomely. If you want numbers matching get it, but if you are gonna mod at all, why pay a GTO premium that will get modified. I am starting with a inline 6 Lemans, putting some GTO body modifications on it (not all they way) and throwing in a modern LS engine.


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## jday240 (Feb 10, 2007)

I bought my first Tempest Custom post car for my wife in 2007 because she fell in love with the 67 GTO body style. It was a solid car and I collected most of the parts to clone a GTO. A large amount of the new interior pieces that came with it were the GTO style as well. It was an OHC 6 car that had a 350 Chevy in it. I changed my mind and started looking for "Custom" specific parts to finish it to factory specs. I later found another 67 Tempest post (326 car) with a Pontiac 400 that was a well optioned factory air car with disc brakes. I sold the first and am building the second. It currently wears a set of Lemans tail lights (Tempest tails are hard to find) and some GTO buckets. I've decided that I am building the car as I would have had it optioned. A Tempest with a 400, overdrive auto, air, 10 bolt with 3.73 gears, console, buckets, a GTO hood, grills, parking lights, and all Tempest badges in a 67 color - Montreaux or Tyrol Blue (undecided). It will have a custom dash based on the original with modern gauges, CD player w/ iPod and a good sound system. I want it to drive like a more modern car so I plan to improve the suspension with tubular control arms, stiffer springs, and thicker sway bars. That way my wife can enjoy it on nice summer days or drive it to work on occasion to give her 05 GTO a rest. I say build it like you want it. If you aren't trying to make money off of someone else selling a Tempest or LeMans as a GTO then no one will care. Personally, I am proud of my Tempest because I never see one at a car show or cruise in. I get annoyed (just a little) when someone calls it a GTO or LeMans. But that's just me...it seems the Tempest is the more rare of the cars today.

This is my inspiration - although I like the emblems in the stock locations. It's too low for my taste, but it's a post car.









I want the Pontiac script on the tail panel of my car.









I want these wheels and probably this color and all of those pretty emblems.


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## Groundczero (Nov 28, 2012)

jDay you know what wheels are on the black car those like nice!


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## jday240 (Feb 10, 2007)

Rushforth Wheels - Home


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## JGEETO (Apr 26, 2011)

It sounds like you will never own a GTO. If a FAKE does it for you then go for it. A clone means only one thing, not real.:agree

Big John


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## Curby (Feb 9, 2013)

*Buy the best car you can afford, whether it is a GTO or not*

I jsut bought my 68 "GTO" convertible at MECUM in Kissimmee, FL.

When I saw the car, I knew I had to take it home. I did not care if the GTO badges were original or not.

The seller gave me the history of the car since he first got it, and it made sense to me.

A 70 year old man brought the car to his shop to be painted. The man had always wanted a GTO convertible, but could never afford it. he finally found this LeMans and started the restoration. He had the engine and transmission rebuilt, new exhaust put on the car along with front and rear bumpers. he rebuilt the brake cylinders and all the suspension bushings and ball joints. The original interior is in great shape. He put new Michelins on the 14" steel wheels. He had to replace the carpet, but everything but the radio is factory original.

Al the sheet metal and glass is straight and original. The frame is clean and even the body mounts are like new. No rust anywhere.

The painter bought all the GTO badges, hood, and grille, and started working on the car. The owner passed away before he finished the conversion, so the man's widow sold the car to Jimmy. He decided to continue the conversion to a GTO and bought some 17 x 9 Rally II wheels and redline tires for the car. He then put a 2.5" exhaust system on the car with Flowmaster mufflers. He did not go so far as to replace the tail lights, or change the steel front bumper for the Endura bumper or put the hideaway headlights in it. A purist can spot the fact that it is a LeMans right away. I kinda like that.

The paint is perfect, the top looks like new, and the interior is super clean. The car runs and sounds great. It is a perfect addition to my Corvette collection.

I got a great deal on the car, and don't really care if there are 6 letters on the rear quarters or only 3.

The car is awesome, and I call it a LeMans. People read GTO on the car and call it a goat.99 percent of the population just think it is an awesome ride, and I tend to agree with them.:cheers


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## Purple Haze (Feb 27, 2011)

Cloner all the way!! I built this 66 Chevy II L79 post car, added all correct GM Canada papers....... check out my plates!! Says it all and I drove the snot out of it!!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

jday240 said:


> I bought my first Tempest Custom post car for my wife in 2007 because she fell in love with the 67 GTO body style. It was a solid car and I collected most of the parts to clone a GTO. A large amount of the new interior pieces that came with it were the GTO style as well. It was an OHC 6 car that had a 350 Chevy in it. I changed my mind and started looking for "Custom" specific parts to finish it to factory specs. I later found another 67 Tempest post (326 car) with a Pontiac 400 that was a well optioned factory air car with disc brakes. I sold the first and am building the second. It currently wears a set of Lemans tail lights (Tempest tails are hard to find) and some GTO buckets. I've decided that I am building the car as I would have had it optioned. A Tempest with a 400, overdrive auto, air, 10 bolt with 3.73 gears, console, buckets, a GTO hood, grills, parking lights, and all Tempest badges in a 67 color - Montreaux or Tyrol Blue (undecided). It will have a custom dash based on the original with modern gauges, CD player w/ iPod and a good sound system. I want it to drive like a more modern car so I plan to improve the suspension with tubular control arms, stiffer springs, and thicker sway bars. That way my wife can enjoy it on nice summer days or drive it to work on occasion to give her 05 GTO a rest. I say build it like you want it. If you aren't trying to make money off of someone else selling a Tempest or LeMans as a GTO then no one will care. Personally, I am proud of my Tempest because I never see one at a car show or cruise in. I get annoyed (just a little) when someone calls it a GTO or LeMans. But that's just me...it seems the Tempest is the more rare of the cars today.


 I agree Jday, mine started out as a possible clone but i fell in love with the unique styling of the "lowly" Tempest Custom, and like said above my Tempest will match up to any stock GTO on the street for 5,000 less in seed money to get the foundation. I am gonna start popping out some gauge clusters for the dash when i get the shop finished next month, check out my photobucket for picks of the finished dash. And the license plate dispels and notions of what it is or is not. I may have an extra set of the "cresent" Tempest taillights if thats what your looking for, send me a PM.


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## jtwoods4 (Dec 22, 2011)

Dont clone man. Save up some cash. It sucks having to tell people "No, its not a real GTO, its a clone." Thats just not a fun conversation, you will get more satisfaction from having the real thing. There are companies that will help you finance a classic car. That is how I got into the game when I was younger. I put 8000 down on a 68 Camaro and borrowed 16,000. The car was 24k and really really nice. I made car payments just like having a normal car. After a year or so I sold the car for the same price as I bought it. Paid off the remaining loan and then purchased another car. I slowly did this with 3 cars until I finally had the money to pay one off in full. Now I have a 69 GTO that I was able to purchase outright. It took me about 4 years and flipping 3 other muscle cars but it was worth it.


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## fireshriner (Nov 23, 2012)

*do it right*

*I had already left a comment but just wanted to throw another 2 cents worth in.
If you decide to clone a car into a GTO do it right, do your homework and get the right parts and put them in the right places for the correct year car.
otherwise you will be embarassed when people point things out at car cruises,shows ,etc.
nothing looks more tacky than when somebody takes a bone stock lemans with 350 emblems still on it buys a GTO badge and puts it in the grill (LOL) or they have a 68 GTO Judge ! (LOL) no such animal was ever made.*


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## jbrenner (Apr 15, 2013)

There's no explanation necessary, to anyone. Clone if you want, leave original if you want. Those that say it's not a real GTO make me laugh, as if it's a Honda or something. If you want to get technical, a GTO is a Tempest since it's based on that. Regardless, does it really matter? It's your car and it's all Pontiac. Should you not drop a rebuilt and warmed up original Pontiac 350 into it that's available to you at a good price, because the stock motor was a 389? No, its done all the time. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the good debate. But when it's all said and done, whose car is it? If we were talking dropping a Chevy motor in it, then I'd say no, don't do it. Stay Pontiac. Otherwise it's your car, who am I to tell you what to do with it. Just drive the damn tires off of it and enjoy it, really nothing more important than that!


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## SCG Pontiac (Feb 23, 2014)

The most important thing is not the question of to clone or not to clone. Far more important is to buy or build a car that brings enjoyment to you not the crowd around you. We have purist come into our shop everyday pointing out the wrong lug nuts on a 58 corvette or the shade of paint seems off on a Cuda. I love factory restored or original muscle cars but not everyone does. That's ok with me, I own what I like and enjoy. I wouldn't hesitate to build a Tempest or Lemans they are both great Pontiac's but if I really wanted a GTO I would get a real one. I am building a clone right now because it will be a highly modified hotrod and I didn't want to cut-up a real GTO. Besides I already have a real one. Bottom line you are the one that has to pay for it, maintain and drive it so you get to decide. Good Luck


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## par4n1 (Jan 28, 2010)

My 68 Tempest has been in the shop going on two years and getting as much as I can afford to spend on her. She has many 1968 GTO parts as well as mods that GTOs never had, some pearl that will flop in the sun and the tempest emblem will remain in the grill. I really don't care how many heads are scratched trying to figure it out, heck I think that will open dialogue and lots of build stories. Ive never been a fan of badging on any car and with retro prices off the chart there is no wrong answer unless profit is made by misrepresentation.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

If no explanation is necessary, there is no need to clone. Cosmetic additions are meant to deceive by the way they look. Build the car the way you want, but I prefer 'sleeper' cars to clones. A good friend cloned a nice '65 Lemans into a "GTO" about 8 years ago. He used to call it the Lemans, then it was the LeGoat, and this past weekend, he's now calling it "The GTO". So I guess, to him, it is.


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## jbrenner (Apr 15, 2013)

Well, that's the beautiful thing about the world we live in geeteeohguy...everyone's entitled to their opinion. When someone else is willing to foot the bill for my car, then I guess they can criticize and have input on what I do with it. There'd be no GTO without the Tempest, and the GTO was originally just an option. So one could argue that a GTO is a Tempest, not the other way around. Doesn't matter, they're the same car and can be optioned out anyway one likes and is willing to spend the $$$ and effort on. I'm not a big fan of the redline tires, prefer the Radial T/A's. Pretty sure they're both quality and cool...just my preference.


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## teamwoody72 (May 23, 2008)

I say no.. I pondered the same a few years back when i bought a nice 67 lemans convertible. I had a 67 gto at the same time and i have a 67 and 68 gto now. It is very easy to clone but you will know in your heart its not a gto, and most any gto guys will see the vin is 237 and not 242. In my opinion a stock lemans or tempest brings more respect than a clone anyday


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## 666bbl (Apr 13, 2014)

Great topic for my 1st post. I'm in the restoration biz and have been for the better part of 40yrs. Clones, tributes, re-creations, but fake? Loaded question. back in 01 I "clipped" a destroyed 68 GTX Hemi convertible. Everything from the 2nd floor seam back was flattened like a pancake. A clean AZ Sattelite conv. back 1/2 was used and all the proper Hemi underpinnings were either salvaged or recreated. Was that still a "real" car? The numbers matched and everywhere it counted was addressed. So was it? You bet yer His n Hers shifter it was. It's 1969 and your beloved GTX conv was smashed by a drunk while parked on the side of the road. It was worth fixing and the shop did much the same, except maybe since it was a "used car" they didn't work as hard to detail the repair like we do in restoration. 

More friendly to us being a GTO site. You find the real thing, say a 65 HT, but it's rusted beyond repair. Floors, frame, outer sheet metal, mostly swiss cheese or worse. Do you find a clean rust free LeMans as a donor or do you spend 1/2 a lifetime tracking down genuine GM repair parts? If you choose the 1st option and do the work beyond reproach, so good the best of the best could never tell, what is it? Clone or restoration? I'd say that as long as the things that made it the real thing were honored through the course of the work she's still real, but a LeMans gave it's life to save it's sibling from a trip to China to become some kid's toy or a piece of a Kia. 

As to whether or not someone wants to clone from scratch, you might just have it made in regards to adhering to guidelines. You can build a wild stroker 455, use a better rear axle, add a bichin 5spd, 4 wheel disc brakes, but to the casual observer it's simply a GTO since a lot of that isn't immediately visible. As has been said above, from behind the wheel it has to please the builder. Last comment, a 71 Hemi Cuda conv ranks up near the top of the food chain in high-dollar musclecars. I find it funny how the difference between a fabulous "tribute" done to the finest of details, invisible to the eyes of the best experts, and the real thing can be well over $1,000,000, and in some past sale prices nearly double (!!). That difference is simply paper. For the same $$$$$$$ I'd rather have a Deusenberg. This is now and always will be a hot topic, and the latest generation of enthusiasts put more value on the "paper" than at any time prior in my memory. At the end of the day it's the goal that matters. For profit? Honesty too easily can take a back seat. For the sheer thrill of the driving experience? That's as individual a a fingerprint.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

666bbl, Funny on the Duesenberg statement. I've made that exact statement in the past. I've owned Mopars, and always preferred the Pontiacs over them because of the Mopar's horrific quality. I worked on a lot of them in the '70's -'80's, and they were cheesy, tinny, good looking cars with nice drivetrains. But the window cranks fell off and the seats split. Value aside, and to own and drive, I'd rather have my '65 GTO than any hemi powered E body. Heck, I'd rather drive a '62 Gran Prix or a '63 1/2 427 Ford Galaxie. Real cars. Of real quality. To compare a 'Cuda or Challenger to a Duesenberg or Lincoln K is an outrage, yet the Mopar is worth much more!!


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## 666bbl (Apr 13, 2014)

Geetee, the good news is that those multi-million versions are starting to slip back. Not a lot, but I don't think we'll ever see the sale of a Hemi Cuda conv top $2M (which I think is a record price of $2.7M). Not good news for the owners but it shows a shift in the paradigm. The whole authenticity thing can go out of control very quickly. Some folks are so anal they won't buy new fasteners except maybe chrome trim screws. "And they better be chrome! No polished stainless!" At that point some need a valium for Pete's sake. The majority of my work has been on the senior series Packard models from 32 through 38. I've hit the mark for my clients many times over and it wasn't by being neither lax or anal about it. To "build" a select model, a desirable version that would be twice the price of admission finding it, as long as the work is done to the best of one's ability it won't matter much. I also have a 61 Belair Spt Cpe (bubble top). It was a 6cyl 'glide version. I could go 409 and serve the best example I could with all the right details, but then it may only be worth the sum of it's parts + a small percentage. I choose to build a bichin mild custom out of it. Lowered, SBC w/tripower, O/D auto, lots of stock details and kool period upgrades. Same effort with less "rules" and minus that 5 figure motor could easily be worth more. I mentioned "...day 2..." cars in another topic. I see that look gaining steam as well and an honest car be worth good $$$$. Nice topic.


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