# Potentially serious GTO problem - everyone inside!



## Yankee (Oct 28, 2004)

I haven't been active on this board for awhile, but I wanted to share what happened with my 04 GTO. Some of you might have had the same problem, but in case you haven't, here's the story:

We took our GTO on a road trip up to Missouri from Louisiana last week, and as soon as we got there I noticed that the passenger side front tire had started to throw cords like it was ready to blow. On the outside the tire looked just fine, but looking on the inside of the tire I noticed the sidewall had completely separated from the tread. Upon further inspection I found out why: over time, apparently the front wheels had started turning inward, causing the tires to rub against the strut. At the time this car had 28,000 miles on it, still had the original tires and rims. This car has never been autocrossed, wrecked or driven very hard (and even if it was, there's no logical reason for this to have happened). 

This pic is of the outside passenger side, looks almost perfectly normal...









Here are some pictures documenting the damage on the inside part of the same tire. It's kinda hard to see in this particular pic but look at the steel cords showing all around the top side of the tire.

















Observe the tire rub marks on the upper part of the strut. Also note the dark rub spot on the inner fender.









Close-up of the strut.

















Here's the driver's side tire. It's hard to tell in this pic but there's premature wear on the inside also - not as bad as the passenger side but it's definitely there.









While I was there in Missouri I ran into a guy who had an Impulse Blue 04, with 15K on it. I took a picture of his inside driver side wheel well to demonstrate what it's supposed to look like. Look at the space between his tire and strut...









Now for comparison purposes, here's the same pic of my tire and strut. Notice how close mine is, there's barely 1/4 inch of space there... :eek 

















Thankfully the strut repair was covered under warranty and they even threw in 2 brand new factory BF Goodrich tires. The cause of this problem is yet unknown. As said before, this car had 28K on it when this was discovered - it's doubtful many of you have that kind of mileage on yours yet, but it could be just as susceptible someday, so be sure to check for it periodically. If this hadn't been caught in time, a tire could have blown at high speeds with disastrous results. This is just to let everyone who has a 2004-06 GTO know that a potentially serious problem exists. To my knowledge no factory recall has been issued (and don't know if there will be one), so looks like owners will be on their own to resolve this problem if theirs suffers from it like mine did, so be careful out there.


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## greaser32002 (Mar 6, 2006)

Dude, I think your on to something. I will have to take a closer look at mine, perhaps go to the dealer. I have 23k miles on my 05 impulse blue m6, but on the last oil change noticed that the inside of the right wheel was wearing out more than normal. Honestly, I do like to take turns at very quick speeds, so I didn't think much of it. Just rotated the tires because the car was starting to pull to the left. Now, if this is the case, our chamber alignment (I think thats what its called) is starting to wear out very quickly. It could be from the top post where it all bolts together, there should be some kind of bushing there to control this type of wear. I've read in some old car magazine how to correct this (but after years of wear), but I'll have to look into this more. But you are right, the wheel looks fine from the outside, but starts to wear out from the inside just as your pics show. What else did the dealer do? What did you tell them? Did they haggle you to not fix the problem? Did they use the same part (new) to fix this? Is this something the dealers are aware about? I wonder if anyone else has seen this? 
I guess we have to be more observant when doing maintenance. Have you noticed that the wheel air pressure drops over time? I've had other cars and have not had this kind of problem. I will have had my car 1 year next month and have had to refill the pressure to 45psi (from 35psi) 2x's already (or was it to 35psi from 25psi, dont remember at the moment). Is this normal?

:confused :confused :confused


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## rwilson831 (Aug 23, 2004)

Your car looks exactly as mine did. Last week I had to put new tires on my car because the struts were rubbing the tires. With the new tires I still have the rubbing issue. The dealership Desert Pontiac here in Vegas wasn't so friendlly with me though. They told me it was my fault for not having the car aligned. I told them that I said something to the service guy right before I hit the 6000 mile mark. We went back to the Service Managers office and took a look at the service reps notes and sure enough it said customer complains of car pulling to the left. They sent me on my way and told me they would call me when they figured out what they werer going to do. They then called back to tell me the tires I had installed were too big , even though they are the same specs as the ones that were on the car when I bought it. I said bs, and then they said well , your rims are bent too. I said no way, I haven't hit anything. I had to take my car because they were unwilling to do anything about it. I have 20000 miles on my car and they let me drive away with the wheels rubbing the struts! I am going to Pat Clark Pontiac, another dealership here in Vegas, hopefully they will fix the problem.
Wish me luck


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Where I work(Pontiac dealer service) I have seen just about all the goats with the 17inch BFG's prematurely worn. The only saving grace is rotating the tires at EVERY oil change(which I have done to mine, which has 24k miles on it, and the tires look fine) Yankee, THANK GOD you discovered your problem before something disasterious happened! That being said, It looks like someone did not properly torque your wheels on correctly. It is real easy to run the lug nuts down with the wheel crooked with these aluminum wheels. Also, when a mechanic installs a wheel he is supposed to use what is called a "torque stick" which fastens each lug to a correct, factory specification. If the lugs were just ran on there with impact gun only,this can cause problems, also.:cool


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

I've known this since before I bought my car. I haven't thought about all the people out there with GTO's that aren't on this site. Something for me/us to remember whenever we run into someone with the GTO. Let them know before we see an accident. :cheers


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## Good 2 go (Sep 7, 2005)

I don't think this is an alignment issue. If the camber is changing, wouldn't the strut's alignment move the wheel with it, as opposed to the wheel moving independently, closer to the strut? Just my two cents.


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## Ironmancan (Feb 11, 2006)

As far as I know cars with the 18in rims are not having this problem. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Good 2 go said:


> I don't think this is an alignment issue. If the camber is changing, wouldn't the strut's alignment move the wheel with it, as opposed to the wheel moving independently, closer to the strut? Just my two cents.


You would also see "worn spots" where the upper strut mount nuts would be sliding back and forth.


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## S2kracka (Mar 13, 2006)

Thanks for posting this info, I'll be sure to check my Dad's when I swap his stock tires back on in place of the snow tires on there right now!


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

Well, that's concerning.

Here's a thread I posted last month: http://www.gtoforum.com/showthread.php?t=6254

I don't think I'm having the same problem, though. My tread surface was worn, not the sidewall. I think I just have an alignment issue, but it's surely strange that it's the same tire (passenger front).


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## Jeffs386 (Nov 1, 2005)

where have you guys been????............strut rub has been a big problem on the GTOs and rotating your tires will not help at all,it is an alignment issue(and a design flaw in my opinion) these cars should have never been equiped with wider tires than the ones sold to the Aussies but thats what happened
I hear that GM is trying to deny that there is a problem


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

I've been seeing a number of mentions of strut rub while browsing this forum. Doing a search for "strut rub" will yield quite a bit of results. Also, there is a thread on Ls1gto about it:
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67046

It seems like the main suggestions to get around this are 18" tires, -.3 camber, or frequent alignments. Has anyone heard any other suggestions?

This problem is scary, however. Not everyone reads internet messageboards--I'd think there are plenty of people out there, driving this car with the stock 17"ers, and not even aware of the situation. Good to hear you caught it before the tires blew.


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## Iceddecaf (Dec 14, 2004)

You may want to formally submit this to the NHTSA at this site:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/

It's serious and all those who have been affected by it should file a complaint. Enough of these may initiate action.


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## CMD (Nov 13, 2005)

How do the reacalls work. If enough people file a complaint someone will be forced to do something right?


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## PHOTOGOAT (Feb 17, 2006)

Although my '05 has 18's and I have not seen any unusual wear on the tires, if I noticed this problem, I would install 1/4" wheel spacers. This would move the wheels out just enough to safely clear the strut. 

Unless of course, there was a mechanic failure that needed to be fixed under warranty. 

Just my two cents......:cheers


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## Old Coot (Oct 10, 2004)

It looks like the wheel offset is to much. They may need to change the wheels. A wheel spacer might work but I wouldn't think Pontiac woud make that fix. I guess, I don't see how the 18 wheel would be better unless the offset is different, seems like they would rub more.
:confused


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

Old Coot said:


> I guess, I don't see how the 18 wheel would be better unless the offset is different, seems like they would rub more.
> :confused


The impression I get from what I read about the strut rub, is that the 18" wheels, since they have the narrower 235 tires, do not come as close to the struts as the 245s on the 17" have. 

But that is just parroting back what I have picked up reading about this--I'm not very mechanically inclined.


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

235 to 245 can make that much of a difference?


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## BigNick (Jan 7, 2005)

Starrbuck said:


> 235 to 245 can make that much of a difference?


Half a centimeter (5 mm, or about 2/10 of an inch) might just make all the difference between rubbing and not rubbing. Plus, with a different diameter wheel, the "fat edge" of the tire sidewall will be in a slightly different position relative to the strut body.


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## Justice (Oct 9, 2005)

So if we bought new tires and got 235's, would we need to worry about handling issues?


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

Justice said:


> So if we bought new tires and got 235's, would we need to worry about handling issues?


Here's the solution to your problem. Found this on Miata.net and have used it for my kid's cars and my own. Play with the profile and width to get the desired results. You should also keep the overall profile aspect ratio close to stock so your MPH is still accurate.

Enjoy

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html


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## Sean Monahan (Mar 24, 2006)

I'm having the same problem with my 2004 GTO's suspension and tires. I have pictures that i took.Their is obvious tire wear on both of my front tires, from where it has been rubbing on the suspension when I go over bumps. I took my vehicle to a dealer, and GM sent some one to inspect it, they say that their is nothing wrong with my vehicle. Since then, I asked another gentleman that has an '04 GTO also, and we looked at it and he has the same problem. He also took his vehicle to GM and they said that their is nothing wrong with his vehicle. I have pictures posted that show my car, and a picture of on of his tires. I am looking to file a lawsuit against GM, and I need every ones help doing this. If you have the stock tires and rims on your '04 GTO pleas inspect the tires for abnormal wear, and your suspension for rust of any other sign of the tire rubbing. If any of this pertains to you or anyone you know experiencing this CALL ME A.S.A.P. 815-955-3882


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## QSGTO (Nov 21, 2005)

As a have stated in several other posts, I am an ASE certified alignment tech. I noticed the strub rub issue very early and found the solution to rub and inner tire wear issues. Get an alignment. Be very specific what you want them to do and even watch them do it if you need to. Have the tech set the front camber to zero degrees. This will bring the tire away from the strut and reduce the inner tire wear rubbing and camber wear. Also, rotate your tires every 2k miles. It will never hurt to rotate too much, but if you wait too long, it will wear the insides of you tires off. If any of this is not clear enough, please feel free to contact me by email. [email protected]


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## 4 BKT VET (Mar 28, 2006)

The dealer told me the alignment is covered, but not consequetial damage. Sounds like a load of GOAT Pellets! I think we all should remind GM of Ford's tire experience, at least they can't really contribute it to anything mechanically wrong with the design of the cars.
There is more than enough of us for a class action. Just a shame this hast to happen to such a cool car.


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## jag767 (Feb 8, 2005)

wow i just looked at my cars i have 16k on it and ive already changed the tires once (i beat on them A LOT) and i just looked at them and sure enough i have the same problem. i just spoke to the service manager at my dads dealorship and looks like eveyrthing is going ot be covered under warranty and since my tires are still pretty new i get a voucher for 2 new tires so next time i need tires i only have to buy 2 arty:


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## Sean Monahan (Mar 24, 2006)

*Hahaha*

WELL IM GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOU ARE AN ASE CERTIFIED ALIGNMENT TECH, OBVIOUSLY NONE OF YOU TRIED TO GO THROUGH GM, CUZ I HAVE, AND WE HAVE A SETTLEMENT MEETING FOR ME TO GET MY NEW CAR!!!! TOUGH BREAK FOR ALL YOU GUYS WHO FIXED YOUR CAR YOUR SELF, AND DID AN ALIGNMENT! 





QSGTO said:


> As a have stated in several other posts, I am an ASE certified alignment tech. I noticed the strub rub issue very early and found the solution to rub and inner tire wear issues. Get an alignment. Be very specific what you want them to do and even watch them do it if you need to. Have the tech set the front camber to zero degrees. This will bring the tire away from the strut and reduce the inner tire wear rubbing and camber wear. Also, rotate your tires every 2k miles. It will never hurt to rotate too much, but if you wait too long, it will wear the insides of you tires off. If any of this is not clear enough, please feel free to contact me by email. [email protected]


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## purplehaze (Dec 27, 2005)

Sean Monahan said:


> WELL IM GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOU ARE AN ASE CERTIFIED ALIGNMENT TECH, OBVIOUSLY NONE OF YOU TRIED TO GO THROUGH GM, CUZ I HAVE, AND WE HAVE A SETTLEMENT MEETING FOR ME TO GET MY NEW CAR!!!! TOUGH BREAK FOR ALL YOU GUYS WHO FIXED YOUR CAR YOUR SELF, AND DID AN ALIGNMENT!


shut up and be gone with your arrogant bullsh!+, there is no need for that crap in here, if you have something constructive to say then do so, if not take a long leap off a short cliff..... prick


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

purplehaze said:


> shut up and be gone with your arrogant bullsh!+, there is no need for that crap in here, if you have something constructive to say then do so, if not take a long leap off a short cliff..... prick


I AGREE!! 
No reason for that crap at all..... jackass.


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## GTOtbird (Mar 4, 2006)

What happened to your CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT now that you're getting a new car? Was it all for one and none for all?


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## 4 BKT VET (Mar 28, 2006)

Sean;
It doesn't sound as though your too attached to the car, nor does it sound as though you are a real motor head. Go get a freakin' Honda Accord 4 door and be done with it.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Thank you for the post. This morning when I got in the goat to go to work I remembered to check my front tires. I turned my wheel all the way to the right and got out to look. My heart sunk at what I saw there.

http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/tire1.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/tire2.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/tire3.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/tire4.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/tire5.jpg
This next image is the best one to show the strut alignment to the tire wear pattern.
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/tire6.jpg

I drove to the dealership and asked for the service manager. He took one look at the tire and told me it was an alignment problem. He did not want to hear anything about the tire rubbing the strut. He said that just doesnt happen. I showed him the marks on the strut and the obvious alignment of the tire to the rub marks and he repeated that it is absolutely not rubbing, if it were I would have all kinds of racket inside the car. I scheduled an appointment for tomorrow morning for an alignment. I cant wait to see the printout of the current alignment, because I dont believe it is off at all. If you guys look at the position of the strut in relation to the tire wear, you will notice that it is not a camber angle problem. A camber problem would drive the tire into the side of the strut. The rub point here is above the tire, not next to it. The only fix for this would be to move that coil support north an inch or so. If you look at the tire pic closely (it is a very high-res image) you will see that there is tread to the right (outboard) side of the wear that survived (about a 1/4 inch). This clearly indicates that is it not rubbing on the side, but from above. It also clearly shows that if the alignment were out on the camber adjustment, the wear would start more gradually inboard and become full on twords the outboard edge with certainly nothing surviving at the edge. This makes me nervous because 1.) I want the car made right and I dont see how thats possible here without the strut assembly being redesigned and 2.) I just priced out a set of 4 Goodyear F1's I have had my eyes on for a while now and at over $300 each I will have someones head in a basket if they get trashed because of this. If the service manager proclaims my car fixed after an alignment and I throw the F1's on and this starts happening, I am going to hold them financially responsible for them.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I just trashed my front tires as well, but not due to strut rub.

Came in to work yesterday morning through a raging downpour on the Grapevine, and was rather freaked out by the fact that in order to keep the front tires from hydroplaning, I had to keep my speed under 40 mph. I knew my tires were getting to the point where I need to think about replacing this set (I had ~33k miles on them), but I had no idea...


When I got to work, inspection showed my front left tire inner edge was badly trashed - down to cord and metal- while the rest of the tread was at least serviceable. Pix later.

I took it Guldstrand-- who had my alignment set_ very_ aggressively at 9 degress of caster and 2-1/4 degrees of negative camber. This is bitchen for the track, but Doom City for street tires and long drives.

My fault- I got greedy in chasing the handling of my dear-departed Bimmer...which is a bit much to ask of this heavy car.

So...I've replaced the Dunlops for Goodyear F1 GS-D3s (niiiice), and am going back to the Vette gurus to get my aklignment dialed back a bit. I love the way the car handles now, but obviously cannot afford to pop $1k+ worth of tires every 6 months or so...


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I just trashed my front tires as well, but not due to strut rub.
> 
> Came in to work yesterday morning through a raging downpour on the Grapevine, and was rather freaked out by the fact that in order to keep the front tires from hydroplaning, I had to keep my speed under 40 mph. I knew my tires were getting to the point where I need to think about replacing this set (I had ~33k miles on them), but I had no idea...
> 
> ...


Grouch, 

I love those tires! You should check out a tire called a Fulda Quantum Elite. Fulda is the German wing of GoodYear, and their Euro marketed version of the F1 GS-D3 is the Quantum Elite. Same tire, but imported from Deutschland, but the best part is you dont pay for their racing and advertising sponsorship. Check these bad boys out.

http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/f11.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/f12.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/f13.jpg
http://www.actsoft.com/images/goat/f14.jpg

arty:

Heh, if you zoom in you can see my GTO valve stem caps


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## 4 BKT VET (Mar 28, 2006)

Toy comes to mind.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

JMVorbeck said:


> Grouch,
> 
> I love those tires! You should check out a tire called a Fulda Quantum Elite. Fulda is the German wing of GoodYear, and their Euro marketed version of the F1 GS-D3 is the Quantum Elite. Same tire, but imported from Deutschland, but the best part is you dont pay for their racing and advertising sponsorship. Check these bad boys out.


Sweet!

Where'd you get these tires?


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## 4 BKT VET (Mar 28, 2006)

TOYO that is.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Where'd you get these tires?


There is a tire store here called "Tire Kingdom", they carry that Fulda brand. $601.00 OTD.


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## bemeyer (Apr 4, 2005)

I have two shredded tires as well due to the strut rub issue. Is there still no GM acknowledgement to this issue? No recall or TSB? Unbelievable.


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## DrFix2Fly (Oct 27, 2004)

No TSB from GM yet. No cooperation from Pontiac customer service. I'm pursuing the BBB now to file my complaint. Apparently if my dealer does not provide a "diagnosis," Pontiac customer service will not act on the complaint and it just dies. My arguement is that the right-forward tire was found to be at .9 degrees negative which is slightly out of limits and the tire rubbed the strut hard to cause the damage identical to the pics at the beginning of the post. the left-forward wheel was in limits but also rubs. My question to the dealer was "What should I do to prevent recurrance of this." All I really wanted was some sort of answer or to have them pursue the issue with GM. No such luck and now I have to go the legal route and punish Pontiac for blowing me off before someone gets killed.


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## bemeyer (Apr 4, 2005)

DrFix2Fly said:


> No TSB from GM yet. No cooperation from Pontiac customer service. I'm pursuing the BBB now to file my complaint. Apparently if my dealer does not provide a "diagnosis," Pontiac customer service will not act on the complaint and it just dies. My arguement is that the right-forward tire was found to be at .9 degrees negative which is slightly out of limits and the tire rubbed the strut hard to cause the damage identical to the pics at the beginning of the post. the left-forward wheel was in limits but also rubs. My question to the dealer was "What should I do to prevent recurrance of this." All I really wanted was some sort of answer or to have them pursue the issue with GM. No such luck and now I have to go the legal route and punish Pontiac for blowing me off before someone gets killed.


This is unacceptable. This, along with the fuel line rub which torched one GTO on the forum, are incredible safety risks for GM. Lives are at stake as these are both potentially fatal. GM pawns this off as a vehicle owner's lack of maintenance upkeep (i.e. car out of alignment) but new car owners shouldn't have to take their brand new cars in to get aligned as an attempt to offset poor suspension design.

I think with its low production number the GTO safety issues go without notice. If the GTO were high volume this problem would have already been on Dateline by now.

Now I'm stuck having to get new tires, still with some decent tread life, first thing next week. I fear even having to bring my car to a dealer but I feel I need to attempt to have them be responsible for this design/manufacturing flaw.

Also, good luck with BBB. They're as much of a waste of time as the dealer/GM.


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## goalie31 (Apr 23, 2006)

*Ntsb*

You need to contact the NTSB. They are responsible for getting quite a few recalls issued.


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## bemeyer (Apr 4, 2005)

Ok, I'm eating my own words but I have been provided wonderful service and support from a local dealer, Lou Fusz.

I brought the GTO in to address my slice & diced tires from strut rub. I mentioned that this was a wide-spread problem among GTO owners.

The service person said GM has indeed issued an internal service bullitin (not TSB) which details how to fix the strut rub problem. They covered two new tires and alignment under warranty.


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## tmac4468 (Oct 16, 2005)

Can any of the dealers confirm this internal memo, or does anyone have a number, title, etc. for it? I need mine looked at again. Got an alignment at the dealership when I had my headers put on (had just had tires rotated), even asked about the new specs to prevent the rub, but it is still doing it. Just over 20k miles on it.

Thanks, Tim


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## gsxfanatic (Jun 4, 2006)

I've noticed that when I did my first rotation it very very tricky to get the wheels lined up properly then torque down the nuts.. With an impact wrench you could easily screw that one up!


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## SgtGeek (Apr 30, 2005)

Pontiac has a "new" camber spec w/more positive and replaced my two fronts with Toyo 235's versus the 245's and eliminated the problem. And yes my dealer confirmed the internal memo and covered it all under warranty.:cheers 
Over a year ago.:confused


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## The_Goat (Mar 10, 2005)

I'm glad I read this, not because I have the tires rubbing on the suspension, but when I decided to check for wear, I found the inside of ONE of front tires was worn flat. I'm guessing this is an alignment problem. The car does not pull to one side or the other, and I've had the tires rotated about every 7k miles...


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## Xman (Oct 31, 2004)

SgtGeek said:


> Pontiac has a "new" camber spec w/more positive and replaced my two fronts with Toyo 235's versus the 245's and eliminated the problem. And yes my dealer confirmed the internal memo and covered it all under warranty.:cheers
> Over a year ago.:confused


SgtGeek - looks like you got a double wammy. The alignment alone is supposed to fix the problem with the 245 tires so I don't understand why they replaced with 235s. Looks like they really wanted to make sure you didn't come back again.


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## musclehead502 (Jun 10, 2006)

please go to tach issues and see what i posted,there is still a problem.
by the way torque stick,give me a break.


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## Walked (Jun 22, 2006)

I've got an 04 with about 15k miles, just checked for this issue today and see no signs of the rub on either front tire.

Anyone care to advise on the best means to pre-emptively avoid this issue down the line? My warranty will be going out soon enough as it's an 04, and I'd like to make sure problems dont arise down the line.


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## BostonF4$ (Jun 21, 2006)

Went out into the parking lot and just checked the 2004 I purchased w/ 19k miles. NO signs of any abnormal rubbing/wear (pheww)...but I don't want to end up eating my words. The car has the BF goodrich factory rubber on it...but w/ 19k I'd expect maybe more wear than there is on them...dealer could have possibly put new tires on the car before selling it to me...I
'll still keep my eyes peeled for the problem


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## rickbrick (Jul 6, 2006)

Has anyone else had this problem? Sounds serious to me!


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## fateBlowsUrMind (Jul 3, 2006)

I just replaced my 04' 17s factory tires at 24k miles ... I had terrible service at the dealership I bought the car from so I took it to a reputable automotive garage ... I actually took the car in for a heavy shaking in the steering wheel... then they called and told me the inner side of my tires were trashed and I needed new tires... well I didnt wanna drive on bad tires so I had them replace them with the same spec tires.. this was like 3 days ago... I called and asked if they still might have the tires and if not would he write me up something that stated what was wrong with them.. he said ok... I have rotated my tires regularly with every oil change..

Is it normal to only get 24k miles out of such factory tires?

I also just set up an appointment for a new dealership to look at the problem.. since I now have new tires you think they will blow me off? Is there anything in particular I should tell them or ask for now? I wish the dealership I bought the car from wasnt such a sucky ass excuse for a Pontiac Representative or I would have taken my car to them first instead...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

fateBlowsUrMind said:


> I just replaced my 04' 17s factory tires at 24k miles ... I had terrible service at the dealership I bought the car from so I took it to a reputable automotive garage ... I actually took the car in for a heavy shaking in the steering wheel... then they called and told me the inner side of my tires were trashed and I needed new tires... well I didnt wanna drive on bad tires so I had them replace them with the same spec tires.. this was like 3 days ago... I called and asked if they still might have the tires and if not would he write me up something that stated what was wrong with them.. he said ok... I have rotated my tires regularly with every oil change..
> 
> Is it normal to only get 24k miles out of such factory tires?
> 
> I also just set up an appointment for a new dealership to look at the problem.. since I now have new tires you think they will blow me off? Is there anything in particular I should tell them or ask for now? I wish the dealership I bought the car from wasnt such a sucky ass excuse for a Pontiac Representative or I would have taken my car to them first instead...


*If the insides of the tire are trashed it seems to me like an alignment problem. That will doom a tire before the tire is supposed to wear out. The shaking of the steering wheel indicates an alignment problem or balance problem, or something more serious.

If I am not mistaken I believe these performance tires are only rated at a max of like like 30K miles. I wouldn't expect more than that out of them. The life of a performance tire is not like that of a 50- 60K tire for touring. 

Burn outs will reduce the life of them too. I had Bridgestone Dulers on my Ram 4x4 that were 40K tires, they wore out at 30K. Had them replaced and pro rated thru the warranty. Had new ones installed and they only lasted 30K. No more Bridgestone Dulers for me. 

Some tires will wear better than others, thing is when they do not last as long as warranty says and you go to file a warranty claim, by then the pro rated factor leaves you with only a few dollars per tire allowance. I swear it's set up like that so you keep buying the same tires. *


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## 928chevy (Apr 27, 2005)

*inside tire wear*

Hello everyone,Mike here.I was just seeing whats new in GTO world and happened to read about the tire wear problem,(This site is really informative)and low and behold I to have inside tire wear, I own A '05 with 32000 miles but still have quite a bit of tread left my corners are more rounded and slightly chunked (raised and lowered spots) so now I get to go do battle with pontiac service on monday.Ill let you all know how things go.PS, Ive tried to post before without much success so Im not to sure were this will show.Have A good weekend and maybe Ill run in to some of you this weekend at Waterfest in Englishtown NJ.:willy:


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## Zebra (Sep 2, 2006)

So, the solution for the strut rub, according to QSGTO, is to set the camber at 0 (zero), correct? What is the factory setting for the camber? 

I also notice I had some wear to the inside of my front tires and after pulling into my driveway in which I have a climb a slope. I looked at the tire and could actually see smudge on the tire that matched the pattern of the strut "guard".


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## silgoat05 (Jul 1, 2006)

is this problem just with 04's or is it with all gto's 04,05,and 06 forget the dump Q? sorry


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## rwilson831 (Aug 23, 2004)

I have called GM and played phone tag with a rep about the strut rub with my 2004. After a month of back and forth the GM rep finally told me the final decision is that the tires I put on which are Yohahamas are the problem. I told him that I had the problem with the g-force tires that came with the car, he basically said sorry and that is their final decision. Meanwhile my rotors have had to be machined twice due to the rub and I need a new set of tires already. I bought some 18" stock rims on ebay and hopefully that will fix the problem. Oh yeah, I also retained an attorney and I don't care how long it takes I want to be compensated for being treated the way I have. I don't care how long it takes.
By the way I stlill love this car.


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## bsmcall (Sep 11, 2004)

Get in touch with your pontiac zone rep( the dealer can arrange this for you) and have the alignment adjusted per TAC (Pontiac's tech hotline) and their revised specs. And as long as the tires carry the same speed rating and sidewall desciption for load and speed rating, they will be covered. Do a search on "strut rub" and "alignment". It's an eye opener.

Do not give in. This problem exists and they know it, and they will fix it, PERIOD. Mine was done @ 13000 miles and others have had it done. 

Be nice and don't give in.:cool


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## Lehrschall (Aug 12, 2006)

Good 2 go said:


> I don't think this is an alignment issue. If the camber is changing, wouldn't the strut's alignment move the wheel with it, as opposed to the wheel moving independently, closer to the strut? Just my two cents.


This event may be an exception, but there is definetly an alignment issue with the GTO and it is aggravated with the fat BFGs. The stock settings for camber call out up to negative .7 degrees camber. However, if your camber is more than negative .2 degrees, your tires are rubbing!

It's easy to check and pretty easy to adjust. The camber on this vehicle is changed by loosening the two clevis bolts that mount the wheel assembly to the lower end of the strut assembly. The upper bolt hole is slightly slotted and allows the wheel to tilt towards or away from the strut. So with the wheel assembly pivoting at the lower end of the strut, the tire spacing to the strut is definitely changing as the camber changes. There is an adjustment bolt that limits the movement towards the strut. The clevis bolts need to be replaced after a few uses or they will loose their elasticity and clamping effect even at higher torque settings.


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## no_fate (Sep 15, 2006)

Is this still an issue on the new 06?

Is this ONLY with the 17" tires? The 18" are fine?

This internal service bulletin? Does anyone knows its reference # so the dealer has to say [email protected]#$!% lol

Man I want this car, but it seems like it has some flaws


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## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

Can anyone say RECALL??? I had the same problem at 20,000 miles with my 04.


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## Spieldawg (Sep 28, 2006)

I am pretty new here, and have yet to buy a GTO.. but to me, if they are shipping the GTO's with a bad alignment, they should be fixing them on thier dime. 

I am going to look at an 04 Up in columbus today.. with 19K on it. I'll check it for rubbing... If they hadn't changed the tires yet.


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## Xman (Oct 31, 2004)

I had strut rub on my 04. I took it in and got an alignment at 21K before I got new tires. Turns out my camber was over -1.0 degrees but I had toe out which was exacerbating the problem and causing excessive tire wear. This isn't worth getting flustered over. I gladly paid the $60 for a 4-wheel alignment. The Pontiac dealer did a great job and aligned it to Pedder recommended specs (-0.3). No rub and I don't see any degradation in handling.


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## nagoat (Oct 21, 2006)

Ironmancan said:


> As far as I know cars with the 18in rims are not having this problem. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


no problems yet but very low miles still (1400)


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## hardball75006 (Aug 4, 2006)

Ironmancan said:


> As far as I know cars with the 18in rims are not having this problem. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.



You're right. I have 18's with 5000 miles on them and no problems.


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## DAH GTO (Mar 5, 2005)

I had my tires rotated on my 04 for the first time (5800 miles) and as I pulled out of the dealership, I heard rubbing from the front passenger side and instantly thought of the strut rub problem you all have experienced. I turned around and the dealer put it up on the rack and low and behold, my tire is contacting the passenger side strut. So it appears that the original tire was just narrow enough to avoid the rub. When I first read about this, I put my car up on ramps and did not see any rub issues, but now after the rotation, I am the lucky recipient of a bad design. 

The dealer said they would call the TAC (Pontiacs hotline) tomorrow and see what the fix is. Man I do NOT want to go to a narrower tire, so I will suggest the zero camber setting. Seems cheezy to me.


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## DAH GTO (Mar 5, 2005)

Talked to my Pontiac dealer this morning and there is a technical service bulletin (TSB) on the strut rub issue, it's TSB 1835023. The TSB states to turn the strut spring upside down. Apparently the spring is tapered and the narrower portion is currently the bottom of the spring, so be flipping it, we gain more clearance. Anyone have any concerns from a handling/performance standpoint? 

This seems bogus, but maybe no big deal?


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## Zebra (Sep 2, 2006)

Has anyone actually had their struts inverted under this TSB?? It sounds like this along with setting the camber at zero degrees should correct the problem.

I'm thinking about getting both done soon.


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