# ***Heads before cam or other way around?***



## Ironmn715 (Nov 30, 2012)

So I went over to Cottons performance(big authority on turbo Buik 3.8 motors) to see Jack and talk about a plan to help me get 400HP out of my 04 M6 LS1. The discussion came up between Jack and others about doing heads or cam first when NOT doing them together. The reason that I would NOT do them together is cost. Though I was thinking about purchasing heads/cam seperately at different times to offset the purchase cost and waiting to have them installed. Also the discussion came up as to wether or not you would need a tune after just heads or just a cam.

I was curious if any of you cats had thoughts or experience on this. 

As always thanks for your time and information.

'Moe


----------



## 06M6BLK (Apr 4, 2012)

If you have to do them separate it should be the heads/tune first then cam/re-tune. Most aftermarket at least need upgraded valve springs which should be taken care of with the heads, therefore the heads should come first. The cheaper and easier way would be, like you said, buy them separate and install them together as the heads will have to come back off to install the cam. You will need a tune after either in order to keep your motor alive safely. Im assuming you already have long tube headers?


----------



## Ironmn715 (Nov 30, 2012)

With emissions testing LT headers are not really a viable option. I am thinking JBA shorty headers and catted mids to maintain emissions compliance.

My thoughts are to do the heads and cam purchase seperately then install and tune all at the same time and save money on tuning.

'Moe


----------



## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

You don't have to pull the heads to do a cam/valve spring change. Also,
you don't have to mess with the cam or front cover to replace the
heads. Head would be the first thing, if not together. Larger heads may help the
stock cam make a little more HP. A larger cam will probably be restricted by
the stock heads. A tune will be needed after either/both installs.
Can you not pass emissions with LTs and high flow cats?

Larry


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Since your only looking for about 400HP you don't need any really expensive heads for those goals. Find a set of LS2/LS6 heads($450ish used) and slap them on. Maybe consider port/polish with them also.

As Ala said, you can do one without the other but if your looking to save money go heads first so you aren't doing the valvetrain twice.


----------



## Ironmn715 (Nov 30, 2012)

I was thinking about have AI(Advanced Induction - LSX Cylinder Heads)
rework some 241 heads for me. Seems you can find 241 heads for pretty cheap and from what I have read AI rebuilds, ports and polishes the heads so you are getting brand new heads when all is said and done. The issue is they are in the neigborhood of $800-1,000 when all is said and done.

***edit***

When I spoke with Dave over at SLP he informed me that LT headers are illegal for ANY emission controlled vehicle per federal law and advised against me purchasing LTs for DD use on my emissions tested goat. My plan was to buy the headers from them and take the 2 hourish drive to NJ and have them do the free install when they were running that special a few weeks ago.

'Moe


----------



## psycho1000r (Dec 14, 2007)

Ironmn715 said:


> I was thinking about have AI(Advanced Induction - LSX Cylinder Heads)
> rework some 241 heads for me. Seems you can find 241 heads for pretty cheap and from what I have read AI rebuilds, ports and polishes the heads so you are getting brand new heads when all is said and done. The issue is they are in the neigborhood of $800-1,000 when all is said and done.
> 
> ***edit***
> ...



i have AI .226 ported 243s. good bang for the buck!!! i had a cam first, then did heads. i noticed a bigger gain after doing the heads.


----------



## 06M6BLK (Apr 4, 2012)

AlaGreyGoat said:


> You don't have to pull the heads to do a cam/valve spring change. Also,
> you don't have to mess with the cam or front cover to replace the
> heads. Head would be the first thing, if not together. Larger heads may help the
> stock cam make a little more HP. A larger cam will probably be restricted by
> ...


So with heads on the engine, how do you plan on pulling the lifters off of the cam? If you do get the cam out, how do you plan to slide/keep the lifters back into their bores to install the new one?


----------



## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

The LS engines have plastic tray at the lifters, to hold them up.
I don't trust them, so you can use magnets from the pushrod holes
or with dowels through 2 holes behind the front cover.
To get the lifters up, just rotate the cam by hand with the pushrods 
and chain removed.


----------

