# 67 gto soft floating suspension any ideas?



## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

hi, i been noticing now i have been driveing the 67 gto a bit it seems to feel like its floating when driving around kind of bouncy feel, it drives real straight dont wander, just feels soft and floaty.....apparently the shocks were recently replaced, they are monroe sensa trac skinny looking things but maybe thats normal,
i do notice when standing at the rear of car it leans a bit towards the drivers side, not real bad but noticeable
a friend suggested air shocks, any thoughts on this or what shocks are best?.....i would just like it to feel a bit more tight and solid not like i am driving a boat...
i have 14 x 6 rims now and have ordered 15 x 8 rims rear and 15 x 7 front and are going to put taller tyres on it, should i wait till new wheels are on then play with suspension....
it has sway bars front and rear so thats taken care of, thanks


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

KYB gas-a-justs are the way to go. Been on my ragtop since '84 0r '85, and over 120,000 miles of driving, and still holding up. Air shocks are not the way to go. Air Lift bags (fit inside the springs, need to be valved separately to tune properly) are cheap ($100 or so) durable, and have been around since the 1950's. Rukee has them on his '65, and I have them on my 4x4. Excellent product. Hopefully, you've fixed that buggered up engine block drain plug by now!!!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree....the air bags are the ticket, most all of these cars i have seen sit a touch lower on one side even with new springs and shocks, the air bags help that and wheel hop, i think i am at 8LBS one the high side and 12lbs on the low side and (checked while up on stands at the frame) when you drop it it will sit level. To do this like GeeTee said you have to run two valves, there are holes in the very bottom lip of the bumper that are the perfect size for the valve stems. This does not stiffen the car like air shocks but assists your gas shocks and springs with the curb weight and makes it feel a whole lot tighter when you get aggressive with it.


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

Instg8ter said:


> :agree....the air bags are the ticket, most all of these cars i have seen sit a touch lower on one side even with new springs and shocks, the air bags help that and wheel hop, i think i am at 8LBS one the high side and 12lbs on the low side and (checked while up on stands at the frame) when you drop it it will sit level. To do this like GeeTee said you have to run two valves, there are holes in the very bottom lip of the bumper that are the perfect size for the valve stems. This does not stiffen the car like air shocks but assists your gas shocks and springs with the curb weight and makes it feel a whole lot tighter when you get aggressive with it.


hi gater.....so i buy need to buy the kyb gas a just shocks and also fit airbags to the springs right ?....with the airbags i assume i can adjust the height thats good so i can get the rear up a bit then? i dont want it too high but would be good to be able to play around with the height, i am putting new rear wheels on so that might be helpfull if they scrape the tyres i can bump up the rear height a bit is that correct ?
not sure if i can buy the kyb out here , is there a model number for the kyb you guys use? thanks


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> KYB gas-a-justs are the way to go. Been on my ragtop since '84 0r '85, and over 120,000 miles of driving, and still holding up. Air shocks are not the way to go. Air Lift bags (fit inside the springs, need to be valved separately to tune properly) are cheap ($100 or so) durable, and have been around since the 1950's. Rukee has them on his '65, and I have them on my 4x4. Excellent product. Hopefully, you've fixed that buggered up engine block drain plug by now!!!


gt...yes that drain plug is old news, i needed something new to mess with so its onto the shocks....cant help myself but really it does feel like driveing a boat...


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I have the air bags plumbed together though. It will raise the rear, but not that much. Helps with the huge tires I have from rubbing under WOT, especially with people in the back seat.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The reason to run two seperate lines is to be able to tune the rear suspension. Back in the day, the recommended pressure for the bags to help the car "hook" off the line was 4psi in the left bag and 12psi in the right. I did the lines seperate in my 4x4 so I would help control rear sway. With one common line, air is able to move between the bags when the car leans, causing air on the "low" side to be forced out to the high, unloaded side of the car. This causes severe body lean. The Air Lift bags are red in color and fit inside the coil springs....they are an easy, bulletproof install.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I understand the reason for the separate lines, I just need them to stop the squatting under WOT. If I was going to the strip a lot, I'd run two lines to keep it launching straight.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I know you knew......just trying to explain it to Fiesta!! Two lines are more of a hassle to install, but tuning is easier.........


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> I know you knew......just trying to explain it to Fiesta!! Two lines are more of a hassle to install, but tuning is easier.........


hi, well 2 lines sounds like a good idea, the shock place will be doing it so no hassle....i guess i can just pump one up a bit more to take out the lean it has, its not bad but if i could have it level well thats even better...the sensa trac shocks in it are apparently only about 4 months old i been told they are as good as any shock, give or take.....so i guess going to kyb shocks will not make any noticable difference? 
so maybe put in the airbags first....but maybe springs are a problem too...
i pushed down on rear gaurd it bounced up and stopped as it should....but it was real soft and easy to push down so maybe springs are too light ? 
i guess its best i take the info you guys gave and see what the suspension shops say.....thanks


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The Air Lift bags will address a soft rear spring issue. It will be fine. Now you'll have to find something else to pick at.....How about ......the rear main seal? (and what about that pesky water jacket plug!!)


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I have the sensa tracks and they are good shocks....just pop for the airbags and your set...like the guys said they will only raise the car a bit and are not harsh like air shocks. These cars won't win many road races , its still a 17', 4000lb car with the technology of the times and at the time the "widetrack" of pontiac was the best out there in the midsizes.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Fiesta needs all the handling help he can get...those Kangaroos dart in front of you out of nowhere when you're driving out on the billabong....Hey, how about a DocTari themed Zebra-striped GTO for the Outback???? With a gheko seat in the passenger side!!


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

Instg8ter said:


> I have the sensa tracks and they are good shocks....just pop for the airbags and your set...like the guys said they will only raise the car a bit and are not harsh like air shocks. These cars won't win many road races , its still a 17', 4000lb car with the technology of the times and at the time the "widetrack" of pontiac was the best out there in the midsizes.


i will look into the springs first just in case they are buggered, i realise the airbags will help but i figure the springs should be correct before i add airbags if even needed....i measured the spring thickness with some calipers its 0.67 inch or 16.7 mm.....i will go to the suspension shop maybe some thicker springs may be the go...


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> The Air Lift bags will address a soft rear spring issue. It will be fine. Now you'll have to find something else to pick at.....How about ......the rear main seal? (and what about that pesky water jacket plug!!)


one of my first posts was all about the rear main, i bought a seal as the seller told me the rear main leaked....well it does but a drop or 2 not worth messing with.....yet !


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

FYI I have not been able to get a set of rear springs that were "right" for these cars in the past 33 years. All were too low/soft, except the Superlift springs, which were way too high. If you look at ads from the time, you'll realize these cars sat lower in the back than the front, and were sprung fairly softly. Measure your coil diameter all you want. You'll end up putting Aif Lift's in to cure your problem.


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> FYI I have not been able to get a set of rear springs that were "right" for these cars in the past 33 years. All were too low/soft, except the Superlift springs, which were way too high. If you look at ads from the time, you'll realize these cars sat lower in the back than the front, and were sprung fairly softly. Measure your coil diameter all you want. You'll end up putting Aif Lift's in to cure your problem.


hi yes probably will do the air bags, just making sure my springs are not buggered, may as well get it all working correct.....i friend suggested 67, Lemans, station wagon, with auto trans, and air conditioning style springs, so thats an option, anyway probably best i get new rims and the taller tyres on first to see where it sits before messing with springs etc, thanks


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

But the big question is: when are you going to change over the steering column and dash for right hand drive????


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> But the big question is: when are you going to change over the steering column and dash for right hand drive????


hi gt...cars over 30 years old we dont have to change steering, and i dont find any trouble driving it and would hate to mess up the originality, as when i'm finished getting the car to perfection you guys will want to buy it back!....i am going to fit shoulder belts though i found pics showing the anchour point under roof lining so will do that....


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm just pulling your leg a bit, Fiesta. Good luck with your projects!


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

old thread i know, i have not put in the airbags as too many other things got in the way but am now thinking about doing them, i have the bigger wheels on the rear now , 275/60 tire on 15 inch rim, so the rear is up now just where i want it, but it still leans towards the drivers side, and does feel a little bouncy in the rear sometimes over bumps, from what most have said airbags are great but will raise the rear height and i dont really want it any higher, if i put the airbags in as suggested could i just pump up the low side just to get the car level and aviod raising the rear anymore than it already is, thanks


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yes i use 8lbs in the high side (does not raise it) and 12 on the low side. will also take the bouncyness out and make the car feel more aggressive on the twisty's (less body roll) and make the back tires hook a little better.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What Inst. said. The bags must be plumbed individually. I_ still _can't believe you drilled and tapped and installed grease fittings on your sealed rear wheel bearings. Man, that one's new to me! Crikey!!!!


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> What Inst. said. The bags must be plumbed individually. I_ still _can't believe you drilled and tapped and installed grease fittings on your sealed rear wheel bearings. Man, that one's new to me! Crikey!!!!


i am going to swap springs to see if the drivers side fitted to the passenger side does anything, and also will measure to see if one spring is shorter, another member on the other forum said put a spacer under the low side spring so that seems another easy way....

well on the grease bearing mod, my mate here is really knowledgable he has been around cars doing stuff a long time, he said the rear bearings are way too small, a design fault, and the grease eventually burns off or just drys up then you got this tiny bearing with little or no grease, this mod enables you to be able to grease bearings, it damages nothing just a small grease nipple in the right spot, i didnt drill the bearing, just drilled axel housing beside bearing, removed the inner side plastic cover off the bearing and thats it, he done his gto over 10 years ago, and said the bearing will outlast the car now....cool minor very easy mod...


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

as my car has that bouncy feel i figure these ak2080 bilsteins everyone seems to like are maybe the go, the monroe sensa trak shocks are new but i pushed down on the rear gaurd and it does bounce easy, i figure that must be why i get this bouncy floating feel over humps....i dont want it too hard but i am thinking these monroes are just too soft ....i do want it to handle as good as possible, the monroes on front feel stiffer i cant push down as easy on the front, do i need to replace all 4 shocks so its all matched ? or is it ok to leave the virtually new monroes on front with bilsteins on rear ? .....thanks


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

My '70 had the floating feel as well when I got it. Previous owner installed urethane bushings all round. When rehabbing the front end with the motor out, I discovered the sway bar links were never replaced and still had the rubber bushings. They were not seated correctly. They were tightened down but there was no "squashing" of the top and bottom bushings. I replaced both R and L and properly seated them. The floating sensation was gone.


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

although most like the bilsteins i have read a lot that konis are great or even better, i found the bilsteins on summit but no konis....where could i find the konis or does anyone know the part number for the konis....i cant find either of these here in australia....while i'm at it any thoughts on either shock or not much difference either way? thanks


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The rear bearings are a sealed unit, and will last 100,000 -plus miles untouched. There is nowhere for the grease to go, and they degrade over time due to wear, like all bearings. Even bearings running in oil (as in a transmission) degrade over time. Fact of life. Removing the protective seal from a sealed bearing and greasing it externally is mis-guided. The engineers had it figured out. I've owned antique cars with grease fittings on the bearings ('30's Chryslers) and the bearings still degrade as the miles pile up. Just saying.....Also, I like KYB shocks on these cars...they work well and last forever. Good luck with it!


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## fiesta62 (Jan 12, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> The rear bearings are a sealed unit, and will last 100,000 -plus miles untouched. There is nowhere for the grease to go, and they degrade over time due to wear, like all bearings. Even bearings running in oil (as in a transmission) degrade over time. Fact of life. Removing the protective seal from a sealed bearing and greasing it externally is mis-guided. The engineers had it figured out. I've owned antique cars with grease fittings on the bearings ('30's Chryslers) and the bearings still degrade as the miles pile up. Just saying.....Also, I like KYB shocks on these cars...they work well and last forever. Good luck with it!


yeah point taken...but i guess the nipples cant hurt ....hmmm kyb, koni, or bilsteins.....i'm working on it........


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