# Engine Coolant Problems



## Rene Ostro (Sep 26, 2007)

Hello all,

I've been reading about the trouble you have had regarding engine temperature and overheating. I have a related problem. 

I took the new 06 GTO to the dealer at approximately 3000 miles for an oil change. The service department did not know what they were doing and replaced only 5 quarts of oil when the car takes 6.5. They also forgot to reset the computer so the car did not know it had had maintenance performed. I did not know this, I assumed that they knew what they were doing. (!!!) The paperwork says they checked this and that, including the engine coolant.

I took the vehicle in again for another oil change and 6000 mile service -- this time they put only 6 quarts of oil in when it takes 6.5. Again the paperwork says they checked the coolant.

This past weekend I took the car to Valvoline because I did not have the time to take the car into the dealer and sit there and wait for the oil change, or get a ride and then come back. 

The guy at Valvoline pulls out the coolant dip stick -- it's covered with caked, muddy, clay -- the coolant had turned to clay. The car has 10,800 miles on it. The guy at Valvoline told me to immediately take it into the service department and get the entire cooling system replaced -- that something like this does not happen on a healthy new car.

So I call the dealer and they say, hey, just bring it on in . . . needless to say, I seriously doubt the ability, credibility and intentions of the service department. Either they are liars or fraudulent or both. Either they said they checked the coolant and didnt; or checked it and noticed the clay forming and didn't want to fess up. 

Now GM is on strike and I can't take time off -- but I want to have either a brand new identical car; the entire cooling system if not more replaced; or have a reputable honest mechanice perform the service and bill Pontiac.

What do you all say?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*Welcome to the Forum Rene...

The engine takes 6 quarts of oil not 6.5. The manual warns about over filling the engine oil. 

My dealer has forgotten to reset the oil change indicator once, it's no big deal. The oil change indicator goes by engine revolutions and not mileage. If you are changing oil at 3K you can make sure the oil change reset is done at next change.

As far as "sludge" in the coolant: The coolant didn't turn to sludge. GM puts a rust inhibitor in with the coolant and it settles at the bottom of the radiator. It is supposed to be there. You can have the coolant flushed out and this will get rid of the "sludge." Valvoline techs would not know this. Some guys chose to flush the coolant out because of the "sludge." This is not necessary. Change it out at the recommended intervals. 

Your dealer most probably checked the coolant level and either added some or it was still full. As far as the dealer only adding 5 quarts, all they did was short change you a quart. It did no damage. *


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## Partsguru1 (May 21, 2007)

I completely aggree with Judge, and think you are overreacting and placing way too much faith in the Valvoline monkeys. Something you said raised a red flag though, and that was when you mentioned a coolant dipstick. There is no such thing, so what in the world were they talking about? Any idea Judge?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Partsguru1 said:


> I completely aggree with Judge, and think you are overreacting and placing way too much faith in the Valvoline monkeys. Something you said raised a red flag though, and that was when you mentioned a coolant dipstick. There is no such thing, so what in the world were they talking about? Any idea Judge?


*The yellow coolant cap has a long dipstick attached to it. There are a series of holes in it with an up arrow (low) and down arrow (full). The coolant level should be between the arrows to the full mark. Mine has a little bit of rust inhibitor mid way on the dipstick but not caked on. 

You can open the cap while the engine is hot without fear of scalding. 
The rust inhibitor is there for a reason, and after flushing I would want it replaced. I do agree Rene over reacted, and although some don't trust their dealer (I do) I would let them dictate what's best in accordance to warranty not a place that has little to no experience with these engines. *


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

you'll be fine. there's nothing much wrong. i don't trust anybody with my car. that's why i change my own oil (easy job with some ramps). they usually don't use the best and that's what i want and because it's your car not theirs they seem to find a way to screw it up somehow from cross threading drain plugs to getting their greasy hand prints on stuff. over filling isn't too big of a deal. as a matter of fact the book tells you that you can put in up to one quart extra if you are going to be doing extended high speed (revs) running.


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## Rene Ostro (Sep 26, 2007)

*Engine coolant*

Thanks all for the comments. As for overreacting, I bought a new car so I would not have mechanical problems for a very long time. Being told by the Valvoline guy that something was very wrong with the cooling system really startled me, particularly with the issues I experienced with the pontiac service crew. And, when I called to get the car serviced, the service manager was very rude and suggested I go elsewhere. When you are a single female any car problem may be a big problem because service people like to take advantage or don't really care. But again, thanks all for your help.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Rene Ostro said:


> Thanks all for the comments. As for overreacting, I bought a new car so I would not have mechanical problems for a very long time. Being told by the Valvoline guy that something was very wrong with the cooling system really startled me, particularly with the issues I experienced with the pontiac service crew. And, when I called to get the car serviced, the service manager was very rude and suggested I go elsewhere. When you are a single female any car problem may be a big problem because service people like to take advantage or don't really care. But again, thanks all for your help.


*I can understand your apprehensiveness. I don't want to degrade all service techs at places like Valvoline I am sure there are some decent techs employed there, but many are kids ignorant of the mechanics with cars like this. I would highly suggest NOT taking your car to a place like that. Many of kids that work there would die to be able to tinker around on a car like this. It just isn't worth the worry. If you are getting shoddy service at your dealer I would suggest taking the issue up with the president, or owner of that dealership and try and find another one. Your car is under warranty and Pontiac is obligated to honor it. Be animate about this.

There are a lot of guys on here very knowledgeable on many different issues so if you need help there is help on here to help guide you. :cheers *


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## SloTymer (Sep 16, 2005)

Kudos to to you Rene Ostro, for being on top of your car's maintenance and your attention to detail. I don't know that I've ever heard a woman that in-tune to the mechanics of an automobile.


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## dcarlock (Jan 28, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> *Welcome to the Forum Rene...
> 
> The engine takes 6 quarts of oil not 6.5. The manual warns about over filling the engine oil.
> 
> ...


GTOJudge,

Your inisights here are good, but allow me to raise a question.

You said:

"Your dealer most probably checked the coolant level and either added some or it was still full. As far as the dealer only adding 5 quarts, all they did was short change you a quart. It did no damage."

Really, it did no damage? How are you so sure of this. It may not have done damage noticeable to the naked eye or ear, but I have spent my career working in a mechanical related field. I am inclined to think opposite for the following reasons:

1. Less oil equals more friction, which induces greater heat.
2. Proper oil levels are vital in terms of engine longetivity.
3. Also most engine wear occurs within the first few minutes of turning it over, if this is a city car, that could be a frequent event, maybe every mile for three thousand miles, equaling 3000 times!

This is just a small sample of points which allow me to object to your rapid conclusion posted at an earlier date.


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## macgto7004 (Jul 22, 2007)

dcarlock said:


> GTOJudge,
> 
> Your inisights here are good, but allow me to raise a question.
> 
> ...


If a quart low on oil is not sufficient to trigger the low oil warning, then I wouldn't think that it would be that big a deal. If the oil level was that critical, then the low oil warning trigger would be set to a higher point.

Russ


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## dcarlock (Jan 28, 2007)

macgto7004 said:


> If a quart low on oil is not sufficient to trigger the low oil warning, then I wouldn't think that it would be that big a deal. If the oil level was that critical, then the low oil warning trigger would be set to a higher point.
> 
> Russ


Now your bringing software into the picture.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

dcarlock said:


> GTOJudge,
> 
> Your inisights here are good, but allow me to raise a question.
> 
> ...


Running a QT low of oil is NOT harmful. There is plenty of oil in the engine and pan for lubrication. The oil pump is constantly pumping oil to the needed areas. Being only 1qt low there is still sufficient oil in the pan for the pump to do its job. If you noticed on your oil dip stick you have 2 lines, a minimum line and a full line. the Full mark is 6qts. As long as the oil level is between those 2 marks all is well. That is the safe area. Once the level falls below the minimum line then what you are saying comes into play. If it were dangerous to be 1qt low, warnings about this would be included in the owners manual. 

You can object all you want, you've been overruled.


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> *
> The engine takes 6 quarts of oil not 6.5. The manual warns about over filling the engine oil.
> 
> *


The manual states 6.5 qts with filter change...


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> The manual states 6.5 qts with filter change...


So does mine. Mine further states all capacities are approximate. Mine shows full at 6qts.


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## dcarlock (Jan 28, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Running a QT low of oil is NOT harmful. There is plenty of oil in the engine and pan for lubrication. The oil pump is constantly pumping oil to the needed areas. Being only 1qt low there is still sufficient oil in the pan for the pump to do its job. If you noticed on your oil dip stick you have 2 lines, a minimum line and a full line. the Full mark is 6qts. As long as the oil level is between those 2 marks all is well. That is the safe area. Once the level falls below the minimum line then what you are saying comes into play. If it were dangerous to be 1qt low, warnings about this would be included in the owners manual.
> 
> You can object all you want, you've been overruled.


That is fine if running low 1 QT is ok, but the manual says 6.5 QT, and the lady said she had 5 quarts. Let me do the math for you 6.5 Quarts - 5Quarts = 1.5 Quarts. You know what this means; she was 1.5 Quarts low, chief. The stick could very well show full at six quarts, but it doesn't seem a little a strange that the manual spells out 6.5 quarts, Judge?

As far as trusting GM to put any sort of warning in a manual, that is up to you, but it says 6.5 for a reason. 

Just do us all a favor and don't deal in absolutes from now on. Especially when you don't know what your talking about. Keep the integrity.


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## Jeffs386 (Nov 1, 2005)

if any damage was done to the engine by running it 1-1.5 qts low then believe me you would have already known about it by now
overfilling is actually way worse than being a quart or so low


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## Devils3023 (May 21, 2007)

I agree with the Judge. She was in the acceptable oil level for the engine and as long as the low oil light doesn't come on then it's not doing any damage, although if I noticed my car was down a quart I'd be sure to fill it asap but that's just me. As far as judge not knowing what he's talking about your dead wrong. He's provided helpful information, tips and advice to every member on this forum and is a valuable asset to us all on this board, so watch your step or you will be found in contempt of court!!!


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## Devils3023 (May 21, 2007)

On a related note, my coolant dipstick has always had the "gunk" on it from day one and also always comes out bone dry, with no coolant registering on the stick ever!!! Now, my car obviously has coolant cause the car doesn't overheat ever, the temp is always a steady 190 degrees and shows on the temp gauge on the dash one notch below the halfway point always once warmed up and doesn't budge. So my question is what gives?? Should I add a 50/50 mix of water and dexcool till it registers on the dipstick, leave it be, or have the coolant system flushed out?? :confused


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Devils3023 said:


> On a related note, my coolant dipstick has always had the "gunk" on it from day one and also always comes out bone dry, with no coolant registering on the stick ever!!! Now, my car obviously has coolant cause the car doesn't overheat ever, the temp is always a steady 190 degrees and shows on the temp gauge on the dash one notch below the halfway point always once warmed up and doesn't budge. So my question is what gives?? Should I add a 50/50 mix of water and dexcool till it registers on the dipstick, leave it be, or have the coolant system flushed out?? :confused


That gunk is supposed to be there. Your coolant dipstick has a series of holes in it. It also has an up arrow and a down arrow. The coolant level should be between the 2 arrows. If you are not seeing any wetness on the dipstick you are low. I would add the suggested water to dexcool ratio to the reservoir to the full level which is the down arrow. 50/50 is the normal ratio. Depending on your climate you can adjust the the dexcool percentage. The percentage should be listed on the container.

As far as flushing the cooling system, it's not necessary. Follow the suggested maintenance time frame for flushing.

However by referring to this quote from a know it all:_* "Just do us all a favor and don't deal in absolutes from now on. Especially when you don't know what your talking about. Keep the integrity."*_

Since I don't deal in absolutes and I don't have a clue as to what I state. It may be wise to disregard what the owner manual states or what education respondents on here got when trained in the building of trucks and cars and rely on know it all's who chose to dispute what the builder of the car suggests. If you follow that logic, then if your coolant level is low, your car my overheat and your engine will lock up. Whatever you do, don't let your coolant level fall below the full mark.     

On a side note, a variable on approximate oil quantity has to do with the size of the filter used. Some oil filters hold a greater volume of oil. That is one reason why in the manual it states...."capacities are approximate." After changing the oil and running the car and shutting it down, you recheck the level. If more needs added then at that time the adjustment is made. I have always used 6.0 qts of oil at 5K changes using Mobil1 and K&N filters and the oil level remains full from one change to the next. In this instance 6.5 qts would be overfilled. 

But what do I know...


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

dcarlock said:


> That is fine if running low 1 QT is ok, but the manual says 6.5 QT, and the lady said she had 5 quarts. Let me do the math for you 6.5 Quarts - 5Quarts = 1.5 Quarts. You know what this means; she was 1.5 Quarts low, chief. The stick could very well show full at six quarts, but it doesn't seem a little a strange that the manual spells out 6.5 quarts, Judge?
> 
> As far as trusting GM to put any sort of warning in a manual, that is up to you, but it says 6.5 for a reason.
> 
> Just do us all a favor and don't deal in absolutes from now on. Especially when you don't know what your talking about. Keep the integrity.


5 qts. in the pan and another .5 qt in the filter = 5.5 qts.
So........... only 1 qt. low. THIS is absolute!

Larry


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

Hi,

Also, my 05 showed full with a little over 6.5 qts.
I installed LT's and removed the dip stick. Now it shows full with 6 qts.
Seems the tube was not all the way in from the factory.

Larry


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