# Numbers matching?



## Mike E (Jun 9, 2018)

Can somebody tell me what numbers matching is considered? I have a 1968 GTO Convertible, with a numbers matching engine, with aftermarket RamAir. My front drums, brake lines, shocks and springs were shot, so they were replaced with aftermarket parts. Some say if engine and dash bins match, you're good, some say not enough. What's your opinion?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

My opinion, and I'm pretty lax, is if the car has its born-with engine, transmission, and rear end, it is numbers matching. These cars are 50 years old and more. People like myself have replaced water pumps, alternators, master cylinders, etc. over the past 4 decades to keep the cars on the road. Show car guys want ALL the numbers to match on ALL the components, which can be expensive and time consuming. In general, an old GTO with the original engine is worth 5-10k more than a comparable car with a non-original engine.


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## Shake-N-Bake (Jun 16, 2015)

Numbers matching is a term that apparently has several different definitions depending on the person/group. For GTOs, the most recognized authority is the GTO Owners Association of America. They have published a judging guideline and made it available online. Read through that and it will list what items are judged and deemed important. 

To me, "numbers matching" means more than just the parts that normally contain the partial or full VIN but also include parts that are specific to a certain application and/or parts that are date coded.


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## Mike E (Jun 9, 2018)

I looked at the GTO judging guidelines, and it's obvious that those standards don't apply to my car or my situation. My car is nice, dont get me wrong and I get a ton of compliments, but I like to drive it...and it has over 100k miles. I love to cruise in it, and I guess I answered my own question on worrying about value. I maintain it, keep ur nice, and enjoy using it, and my engine numbers match. Thanks guys for your input.


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## Shake-N-Bake (Jun 16, 2015)

My car doesn't have its original engine so I figure the best it can be now is numbers correct. Not sure that is a real term, but is how I would describe my car to anyone who inquires. In my opinion, the judging guidelines aren't intended to identify one car as better than another but merely to determine how close the car is to the condition it was in when it left the factory. So really, a car is judged against its infant self and not against other cars. 

The facts are that all GTOs are special and awesome. So maybe some aren't too close to their original condition.....still doesn't mean it's less of a car. Can you imagine if each of us were judged against our 21 year old selves? That would be a sad score in my case...


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## Mike E (Jun 9, 2018)

Lol, so true. My current "condition" would pass many standards that my 21 year old self has set.


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## Mike E (Jun 9, 2018)

* wouldn't *


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Mine is numbers matching but has boxed trailing arms, rear sway bar and front disc brakes.
I have the original parts in case the next owner wants a swayboat that doesn't want to corner or stop.
:0


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## Nicholas (Jan 16, 2017)

To me, numbers matching means the original drive train the car came with, is still intact and can be verified as such. Many folks insist on that originality and I respect that. That would be ideal for me also, but sometimes it's just not possible. I guess it depends on the remaining condition of the car, how important numbers matching is. The term period correct is also used in lieu of the missing original motor, lets say. For myself, I think it's most important to know exactly what the motor-drive train is. That way I can decide the value and whether or not I have to make any future changes. Just the way I view things.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mine are all numbers matching too....the numbers match something else! Seriously, this is a super hot and ambiguous topic, depending on make, model, and group. I'm one of those guys who has been driving his GTOs as daily vehicles for over 3 and a half decades (less so now, though!), and during that time, master cylinders, water pumps, and alternators got replaced as needed in order to keep the cars on the road. Nobody really worried about water pump and master cylinder casting numbers 30 years ago....and the thought of sending out a pump or part to be restored on a car you needed to drive 50 miles to work the next day was not an option. I take pride that neither of my Pontiacs has been off the road since they left the factory. Registered and insured and driven every year for the past 50 + years. Not restored, just repaired ans needed and maintained. My '67 has the born with everything, except the trans. With my '65, the only numbers matching part in the drivetrain is the Muncie 4 speed. No big deal, IMO, on cars that have been my constant transportation from the age of 22 to my current age, 57, and still going strong! My hat is off to anybody who drives their GTO's and collectible Pontiacs as cars, because that's what they are.


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