# 400ci, Ram Air IV heads "722" which intake & carb?



## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

Looking for opinions as I have a 400ci bored .030, built a bit (I don't have all the details regarding the build) with a performance cam and Ram Air IV "722" heads. She runs very strong. Asking for opinions regarding intake manifold and carb set up to fit under the stock hood. She is a 65 GTO, I am leaning towards an Elderbrock Performer and a 750 Holley DP.

Thanks


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

opinions are like belly buttons, but since you asked.....I'd keep it stock - I bet the correct p/n (correctly calibrated) Q-Jet is as rare as most other elements of the system that were all designed to work together.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

I am leaning Elderbrock performer RPM with the Holley, due to my comfort level with the Holley. Your recommending a Ram air IV aftermarket aluminum intake, but which Q Jet that is currently offered today? 
Thanks in advance.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

McManusGTO said:


> Looking for opinions as I have a 400ci bored .030, built a bit (I don't have all the details regarding the build) with a performance cam and Ram Air IV "722" heads. She runs very strong. Asking for opinions regarding intake manifold and carb set up to fit under the stock hood. She is a 65 GTO, I am leaning towards an Elderbrock Performer and a 750 Holley DP.
> 
> Thanks


Every stock QJet will flow 750 cfm. Some flow 800. That Edelbrock manifold will flow _almost as good_ as a stock Pontiac intake. This isn't a chevy you're dealing with 

What you're considering will actually slow the car down, plus it will have a negative impact on both driveability and fuel mileage.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

McManusGTO said:


> I am leaning Elderbrock performer RPM with the Holley, due to my comfort level with the Holley. Your recommending a Ram air IV aftermarket aluminum intake, but which Q Jet that is currently offered today?
> Thanks in advance.


Not a RamAIr IV aftermarket intake. All of the reproduction ones I'm aware of are junk. If you have the original, stick with it. Otherwise, begin your search for an OEM/N.O.S. manifold and heat crossover, but get ready to spend some coin to get them. Failing that, use a stock Pontiac cast-iron intake, port matched, "cleaned up", with the coolant crossover split from the manifold. It won't "look right" on a Ram Air IV engine, but it will be the best performer. 

Bear


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I've not found any currently offered Qjets, which arent either slammed with HORRENDOUS negative reviews, or slapped with a $1200 price tag. So, yes, I love them, but I also love 69 Judges in CR with a 4 speed... but I can't have one, so there's just no point.

Personally I don't like Holley's, strictly because of the difficulty in tuning/ dialing one in, but if you already have that ability, then aside from it being a messy job, go for it! For the record, I do LOVE Holleys, but draining the bowls, spilling gas, drilling, etc, is just not for me. I use an Edelbrock AVS2 800 carb, with similar engine specs, and it was a blot on and go carb. However, if you do need to jet, you can do so on the eddy's, in minutes, without draining or spilling.

As for the intake, with your flow, and RPM would work, but hood clearance may or may not be an issue.

I use a ported and divorced Performer, but the oem iron is a better manifold.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

Bear,

You figured me out real fast. This is my second Pontiac, my first in 1984 was a 72 Firebird, after the engine blew I inserted a Big Block Chevy in it. After that, about a little over half a dozen 1960s corvettes. So yes....old chevy vette guy that always wanted a 65 GTO and finally got one. Front end is off, Interior is out and I am completing all the work with my brother in-law on weekends. She currently has dual quads and wish to make her more street friendly.

So your recommending the aluminum intake Ram Air IV that i can pickup on ebay, but could you guide me to the QJET that you recommend?


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

BearGFR said:


> Not a RamAIr IV aftermarket intake. All of the reproduction ones I'm aware of are junk. If you have the original, stick with it. Otherwise, begin your search for an OEM/N.O.S. manifold and heat crossover, but get ready to spend some coin to get them. Failing that, use a stock Pontiac cast-iron intake, port matched, "cleaned up", with the coolant crossover split from the manifold. It won't "look right" on a Ram Air IV engine, but it will be the best performer.
> 
> Bear


Bear,
Got it, I don't have the original, it has the offy dual quad set up with spacers and will not fit under the stock hood.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I've not found any currently offered Qjets, which arent either slammed with HORRENDOUS negative reviews, or slapped with a $1200 price tag. So, yes, I love them, but I also love 69 Judges in CR with a 4 speed... but I can't have one, so there's just no point.
> 
> Personally I don't like Holley's, strictly because of the difficulty in tuning/ dialing one in, but if you already have that ability, then aside from it being a messy job, go for it! For the record, I do LOVE Holleys, but draining the bowls, spilling gas, drilling, etc, is just not for me. I use an Edelbrock AVS2 800 carb, with similar engine specs, and it was a blot on and go carb. However, if you do need to jet, you can do so on the eddy's, in minutes, without draining or spilling.
> 
> ...


Its amazing the old cast iron intake is better with all the technology we have available today.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

McManusGTO said:


> Its amazing the old cast iron intake is better with all the technology we have available today.


As bear mentioned, I think that Chevy cut a lot of corners, and Edelbrock was solving that. Soon, people wanted the parts just for the name or look... Kinda like the hood scoop on a GTO. 

Personally, I wouldn't / don't use the factory iron, but it's what everyone here will recommend. If you gasket match a Performer and then cut the water jacket free, you'll have a nice, shiny, new, light manifold, which works as good or better than the OEM.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> As bear mentioned, I think that Chevy cut a lot of corners, and Edelbrock was solving that. Soon, people wanted the parts just for the name or look... Kinda like the hood scoop on a GTO.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't / don't use the factory iron, but it's what everyone here will recommend. If you gasket match a Performer and then cut the water jacket free, you'll have a nice, shiny, new, light manifold, which works as good or better than the OEM.


Will the Performer and Performer RPM fit under the stock hood?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

McManusGTO said:


> Will the Performer and Performer RPM fit under the stock hood?


Performer definitely, not sure about RPM. I suspect that it would, but I can't say. What's the height difference?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

armyadarkness said:


> I've not found any currently offered Qjets, which arent either slammed with HORRENDOUS negative reviews, or slapped with a $1200 price tag.


First order of business is to ignore all the reviews you'll find online. 99.99% of them come from people who're only repeating what they heard from their "buddy" or have never taken the time to try to understand them.

99% of the problems you'll encounter with a QJet will have been caused by the previous "trick of the month club" idiot that worked on it.

This Book is the authoritative reference on QJets.

The first carb I ever really 'got into' was a QJet. Yes, it took some research and study but once you've done that, they're actually pretty predictable and easy to work on.

Then just about 2 years ago or so, I got my first ever Holley. The only reason I switched was that I had really stepped up my engine and had convinced myself it needed "more" than what my genuine 455 SD QJet (which I still have and love) was capable of delivering.

I had to fight with that #$%^&*( thing for _>>12 solid months<< _before I finally got it tuned reasonably well on my GTO.

Out of the box it was 'fine' everywhere except for part throttle cruise (_*you know, where it spends more than 90% of its time*_), and there it was *PIG RICH*. I had to make extensive modifications to the metering blocks on both ends, change the air bleeds, and change the pumps on both ends before I finally got it reasonably close at cruise. 
It's still not 'perfect' but at least now I no longer have to worry about fuel wash taking out the rings.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

McManusGTO said:


> Its amazing the old cast iron intake is better with all the technology we have available today.


Yes, it is. Part of that I attribute to the fact that none of the aftermarket sources have any incentive to develop new parts for the traditional Pontiac V8, considering how long they've been out of production. The other part is the fact that the factory manifold is actually based on the early 60's SD manifold which was already pretty darn good.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

BearGFR said:


> Yes, it is. Part of that I attribute to the fact that none of the aftermarket sources have any incentive to develop new parts for the traditional Pontiac V8, considering how long they've been out of production. The other part is the fact that the factory manifold is actually based on the early 60's SD manifold which was already pretty darn good.


Life would be much easier if the current reproduction aluminum Ram Air IV manifold would work. A bit steep at $499 but if it worked I would buy it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

BearGFR said:


> First order of business is to ignore all the reviews you'll find online. 99.99% of them come from people who're only repeating what they heard from their "buddy" or have never taken the time to try to understand them.
> 
> 99% of the problems you'll encounter with a QJet will have been caused by the previous "trick of the month club" idiot that worked on it.
> 
> ...


When referring to the negative reviews, I don't mean reviews against Qjets, I mean reviews against the generic parts store rebuilders.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The original RA IV manifolds weren't all that great as far as port matching is concerned. The reproductions are based on an original manifold that wasn't a prime example.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

This is just my 2 cents but it runs great, Butler 461 stroker, 9.5 compression, 7K heads ported to 220-240 flow, Butler roller cam, then I put a Performer RPM which by the way clears the hood with room to spare, then found a guy who sells modified Quickfuel/Holley carbs and told him my setup, he got me a 850 DP no choke. Thing has great throttle response and runs like a beast, much better than the 770 vac secondary street avenger I tried first every did especially with a 4 speed. Also just installed Scorpion 1.65 rockers, obviously I'm not going for stock since I bought a non numbers car so I'm going the restomod route.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

*Baaad65*
That looks amazing! I am leaning Performer RPM now that you have confirmed no hood clearance issues. What year is your car?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Thank you very much, '65 and I opened up the hood scoop for what it's worth, there's probably an inch or so of clearance thanks to the scoop bubble. Check with people on this site smarter than me about milling the plenum divider down, I've read some things that it helps in some cases. Here's a couple updated pix with the he new breathers, pinstriped valve covers and new wires.


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## McManusGTO (Dec 18, 2020)

amazing work of art


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Love that air cleaner.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Air Cleaner is awesome.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Thank you, I was looking for something different and thought it looked like the old Pontiac crest then I found a guy who had a billet Pontiac arrowhead hold down nut and cut up a leftover center cap sticker, it's made by March and got it through Jegs for a mere 600.00....like they say you can't take it with you so I'm spending it all 👍


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