# BANNED FROM PY FORUM! LOL



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I just had to post this in the General discussion for all to see. Yep, banned as you can see from the message sent me from the PY Nazi Moderator named Stuart. LOL

Little bit of a clique over at PY and heaven forbid you speak your mind or get sarcastic with any of the "good ole boys" and ruffle their feathers. Don't even think about questioning any of their technical responses by one of the guru's, as you might think you were questioning God himself. At best, if they find you annoying, but you aren't challenging their authority,.........they simply ignore you as there are two member on there who used to frequent here that they always ignore.

The moderator Stuart is a self proclaimed judge of what is acceptable in a reply and what is not based on........ well, I have not figured that one out. I've seen some heated words that he seems to let slide, but assume they are a member of "the club." Now mind you, I don't get into name calling, or slinging vicious daggers at members. I got in trouble with Stuart because you are not supposed to add any comments to any person selling a car/item. Well, that's hard for me to do when you post pictures of a piece of poop that needs 50K to restore and you feel it is worth 20K, or you try and pawn it off as a condition that you seem to see with the rose colored glasses on and rest of us see the item for what it is. Yep, I can get sarcastic if you get smart with me, or like over on PY, feel your knowledge/experience is the end all to that discussion because you are all that is in the plush garden of Pontiac Stuart hates when I speak my mind. So he has the POWER to eliminate any post/comment he feels is "inappropriate" and he has certainly made a number of my replies disappear. LOL

But when Stuart ads a stupid or sarcastic comment to the discussion, I don't have an issue calling him out on it - and I did, so he didn't like it and I got banned, LOL. The only difference is that I cannot pull his reply and make it vanish.......and I can't ban his a**.

I gotta say that this forum is far better. Those who are here are here to help. I don' know of any who feel they are know-it alls like over on PY. Even if I knew everything, I would still listen and do my best to pass along or explain what I know in a manner that you could understand, and not make you feel like a jerk for asking or get high and mighty as some of the Pontiac gods I have encountered over on PY.

So how offended am I by being banned. Well, it just breaks my heart and I feel I will need years of psycho-therapy and hope I recover. This may have a big influence on me in my retirement years and it is possible that a deep depression could set in and my health fail quickly. Oh the nerve of those guys at PY and the Nazi moderator Stuart.

Should we invite Stuart to be our moderator or do you think we are mature enough to moderate ourselves?


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## AZTempest (Jun 11, 2019)

Their loss. If they want some big wig running the show who is willing to lose the knowledge others can bring in the site won't last long. Reminds me of some of the associations in certain neighborhoods.


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## Mine'sa66 (Oct 30, 2019)

Whole lot of that all over the internet. Conform or get the boot. I don't get it. You want to tell these folks to look up the term "forum".
I get policing forums, but so many lose their minds.
Their loss.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yeah, even though they have a huge membership over there when I want some advice on something I don't already know about, that's the last place I consider going.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

We like you right here PJ,..you are always helpful to everyone and extremely knowledgeable about pontiacs and hot rods in general. You have broad knowledge and a real life time of experience. You spend time helping guys out, very commendable.

This is a good crew and everyone is welcome, everyone. Have an extra beer tonite, and just chill. Like you said, nothing to worry about. I am reminded of the quote by Melvin Belli, famed criminal defense attorney who always paddled his own canoe and made people mad.

when a reporter asked him how it felt to be kicked out of the American Bar Association,..The top Lawyers organization in the Country,..he said...

about the same as being kicked out of the book of the month club.......


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## Jerry H. (Mar 19, 2020)

What was the thread about Jim? I've been a member over there since sometimes back in the 90's and never had any problems. It might help that I've personally known the owner of the forum (Ccass) since the mid 80's.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

The hell with them Jim it is like family over here


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks to all for the kind and supportive responses. LOL It is like all things in this world when we began to open the flood gates with the term "politically correct" and all of a sudden everyone had to have a title that sounded like it came with a degree - Housewife=Home Maker, Garbage man = Sanitation Engineer, Store Clerk = Associate, Car Mechanic = Technician, CEO, CFO, CMO, etc.. LOL It empowered the average to become above average and increase not their IQ's or earnings, but their ego's while it enabled companies, suppliers, manufacturers, and anyone who sold some thing to raise prices for products and services while still keeping wages low and jacking up your insurance costs. LOL I am of course a Professional Freight Relocating Transportation Manager = truck driver. Man, I wish I got the pay that goes with that kind of a sounding title! LOL

I hate to say it, but I get really disgusted when I look out at the world - based on my era I lived in and use it as my gauge against what I am now seeing. What I see is pussified men ( more like adult men children) who no longer have balls and squat to pee. Hard work or going through a hard time has them running back to mommy or the psychiatrist because they don't know how to emotionally handle it - they have never been yelled at or the belt taken to their ass. They have had parents who have "talked" to them and negotiated with their needs & demands. Man, my parents told me what to do and when to do it. There was no negotiating and you didn't even think to back talk them on it or it was a quick slap to the face or the belt to remove that attitude real fast. I see kids today give lip to their parents that i would never accept from my kid- I'm the adult, not them, and if they don't want to obey my rules, well, there is the door. We didn't just open the refrigerator door and grab whatever we wanted when we wanted it, and money, asking my parents for money was like talking to a wall and I had to do chores to get an allowance and if I wanted more money, I mowed lawns, rakes leaves, sold Christmas cards, pet sat, baby sat, and eventually got a part time job after school in a department store & I worked Saturdays - because my parents weren't giving me their car to have, only to use to go to work until I could save enough money to buy my own.

I grew up in an era where we had morals, values, ethics, trust, and honesty. Seems most of that has faded the way of "I have rights and you can't tell me what to say or do." Yep, you are correct, but when your rights infringe on mine and you think I need to take a back seat to yours - we have a problem. But, in my era, this never really came up. I think we simply respected one another and didn't need to announce it, nor test it - live and let live. We knew the boundaries and those boundaries were for everybody. Now it seems boundaries can be side stepped or foregone as they apply to some and not others and that depends on the day of the week and cycle of the moon - there is no consensus or enforcement to any of it and it is what is breaking down our society.

I never ever had to look over my shoulder when I go shopping, enter a convenience store, walk down a street, pump gas, but now...........if you aren't vigilant and aware at all times, you may be the next victim. Sad, and its not because I am older - I can still kick some a**. It's just there is no respect for life or property anymore. In my area, we have beggars at every exit or 4-corner stop. I go to my truck stops to fuel up and can't tell you the number of times some stranger walks up and wants me to "help" them with cash because they......... LOL Love some of the stories these clowns have and although it may work on some, I don't have a problem tearing them up and asking questions to blow holes in their plan. They run off by the time I get done with them and forget about trying to ply me for money. LOL

The PY forum is just a bit of an extension of the world. There are good people, but there is a lot of arrogance and those who take over control on a post, and then I get a chuckle of the chronies who really don't know jack, but act as minor birds in support with "yeah, X knows his stuff so what he says is right and you need to listen to him." Had a couple of "over the northern border" members get real indignant with me - and that was their contribution to the post, critiqueing me, and not adding a bit of knowledge. LOL I had one member bust my balls because I was in the "Race" section talking about "Street" cars, but what I was talking of was related to both. I guess I hurt the bullies feelings because I was taking away some of the limelight from the bastard. LOL

So I find it amusing over at PY and its one reason I hang out there at times. I like to challenge the would-be experts who are of course mechanical engineers or Pontiac historians. I seem to throw out opinions that stymie them or cause them discomfort because it questions their knowledge and authority. People hate you when they think they are supremacists in their field and some guy proves that they may not know everything they thought they knew, it embarrasses them - and heaven forbid if there is another way of doing something that they know is the ONLY way it has to be done, period. LOL

With regards to Stuart the moderator Nazi, he is retired and probably doesn't have many friends and being a moderator allows him the authority that he never had in life - because his wife wore the pants in the family. He doesn't seem to be on the forums all the time, so I figure he is only on when his wife allows it. Being a moderator requires tact and an even perspective. Deleting posts you don't care for because you find them offensive or inappropriate, and even banning people as a punishment seems child like. I feel bad for Stuart - he just want to be loved and appreciated, but doesn't know how to go about it. He's got a little authority and control over the forums and it has gone to his head, and when he looks back over his life, he can feel good, because I am the one who has justified the reason for the need for a moderator - otherwise his life might not be complete. So I'll let Stuart wack my pee-pee for 13 days, but I'll be back, and I ain't going to change 'cause I don't play that game. Probably will get banned for life the next go around. LOL


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I like your snarky attitude PJ. I have always appreciated folks who are willing to say what they think even if the outcome isn't popular. I say their loss. You are one of the quickest to help out others with issues they bring on here.


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## Limelight (Aug 19, 2017)

It is a dead sea on PY and Im looking for new forum myself. Never had issues but then again I dont say much either. Like this platform and people involved. Im jumping ship and will post it on PY too.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yeah, In other life endeavors I've encountered people who seem to have been mostly "powerless" in the rest of their lives but somehow have managed to find one niche where they have a little power and/or authority, it to them it becomes a drug that they just can't get enough of. They tend to attract others in similar situations who seem to think they can soak up some of the "extra" by always agreeing with and supporting them - the "yeah that's right"-ers. I don't have much use for the whole lot of them.

Bear


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Well you know guys......In Nashville we have a song for everything.....

“ I am just an old Chunk of Coal,

.....but I’m gonna be a diamond someday!”


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## steve491 (Nov 20, 2019)

Every car I have ever owned I join a message forum. I try to find the premier forum for that make. I've been in many over the years, F-150, Nissan (Murano and Altima), Chevy trucks, Z-28, and now classic Pontiac. Pontiac forums didn't exist when I had a Fiero LOL. What is PY?


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

I have been apart of almost every Pontiac Site that cropped up over the years, and they all start out strong, and then the weak just fade away with time.
Performance Years is one of the best and has held up over the years considering it supports an orphan Brand. 
Sure there are Peckerwoods, but that goes for ALL sites. If you think PY is bad, check out some of the FB pages. Oh boy, they can be fun  
Life is too short and I surely wouldn't bring my troubles from another site to here or anywhere for that matter.
JM2C 
Cheers


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## 29585 (Aug 4, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Thanks to all for the kind and supportive responses. LOL It is like all things in this world when we began to open the flood gates with the term "politically correct" and all of a sudden everyone had to have a title that sounded like it came with a degree - Housewife=Home Maker, Garbage man = Sanitation Engineer, Store Clerk = Associate, Car Mechanic = Technician, CEO, CFO, CMO, etc.. LOL It empowered the average to become above average and increase not their IQ's or earnings, but their ego's while it enabled companies, suppliers, manufacturers, and anyone who sold some thing to raise prices for products and services while still keeping wages low and jacking up your insurance costs. LOL I am of course a Professional Freight Relocating Transportation Manager = truck driver. Man, I wish I got the pay that goes with that kind of a sounding title! LOL
> 
> I hate to say it, but I get really disgusted when I look out at the world - based on my era I lived in and use it as my gauge against what I am now seeing. What I see is pussified men ( more like adult men children) who no longer have balls and squat to pee. Hard work or going through a hard time has them running back to mommy or the psychiatrist because they don't know how to emotionally handle it - they have never been yelled at or the belt taken to their ass. They have had parents who have "talked" to them and negotiated with their needs & demands. Man, my parents told me what to do and when to do it. There was no negotiating and you didn't even think to back talk them on it or it was a quick slap to the face or the belt to remove that attitude real fast. I see kids today give lip to their parents that i would never accept from my kid- I'm the adult, not them, and if they don't want to obey my rules, well, there is the door. We didn't just open the refrigerator door and grab whatever we wanted when we wanted it, and money, asking my parents for money was like talking to a wall and I had to do chores to get an allowance and if I wanted more money, I mowed lawns, rakes leaves, sold Christmas cards, pet sat, baby sat, and eventually got a part time job after school in a department store & I worked Saturdays - because my parents weren't giving me their car to have, only to use to go to work until I could save enough money to buy my own.
> 
> ...


 "I am the one who has justified the reason for the need for a moderator"

Just walk away Jim, to heck with them, its the proverbial "Tempest in a teapot" (see what I did there?) 
"You need bad guys like me , so say goodnight to the bad guy......"


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## GTOLOD (Sep 29, 2018)

I appreciate the help Jim and I wish the Greatest Generation would be young again to come back kick these wusses a’s of today and show them what men are really like.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

steve491 said:


> Every car I have ever owned I join a message forum. I try to find the premier forum for that make. I've been in many over the years, F-150, Nissan (Murano and Altima), Chevy trucks, Z-28, and now classic Pontiac. Pontiac forums didn't exist when I had a Fiero LOL. What is PY?


Here you go. Lot of good info. PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> I have been apart of almost every Pontiac Site that cropped up over the years, and they all start out strong, and then the weak just fade away with time.
> Performance Years is one of the best and has held up over the years considering it supports an orphan Brand.
> Sure there are Peckerwoods, but that goes for ALL sites. If you think PY is bad, check out some of the FB pages. Oh boy, they can be fun
> Life is too short and I surely wouldn't bring my troubles from another site to here or anywhere for that matter.
> ...


Where you see "my troubles" I see "my experience." Bringing it here, or anywhere for that matter is offering up an awareness in the differences between PY and the GTO forum. It is also a form of a review - something popular and often done on the internet so people can decide for themselves about a product, service, and in this case, a forum.

I can deal with Peckerwoods - that's not the problem. The problem is you can't go against those Peckerwoods or you get banned - that's the point. CENSORSHIP and the ability to ban anyone should not be in the power of 1 person who decides what is a "good" post/reply, and what is a "bad" post/reply. Good or Bad is SUBJECTIVE and based on one's perspective which is an homogenization of their upbringing, schooling, life experiences, cultural surroundings, self accepted morals, values, & ethics, ie their "programming." Should I decide what is "good" or "bad" for you based on what I see as "good" or "bad" for me? If that were true, then individuality would not exist. It would also not represent what America is and the rights we do enjoy. I don't live in a Communist or Socialist country - yet. Following some rules makes you a sheep. Pushing the limits of the rules tests them, and can sometimes find the faults in the rules which need to be altered in making a better rule.

I get it if you are flat out being an ass and using foul language, name calling, insulting, or other INTENDED malicious replies. I would hate to see that kind of thing on this forum, but I think the middle finger Icon speaks loudly when needed to end that kind of thing. But if you speak your mind, and it is not intended to harm or be malicious, I don't think anyone has the right to delete a post or ban someone - its not Face Book.

Here is an example. Someone is selling a 1967 GTO HO auto needing resto. Posts a few pics to draw you in. Then a pic of the rotted out frame. The price, in my opinion, was a bit high, but when he posted pics of the rotted out frame - this should have been clearly stated in the first ad with a pic. The ad said all floors were good, but no pics from the underside. Hmmm, rotted away frame and the floors are good? Does not add up in my book. So I made the comment with the rotted out frame and the need to replace that, the car in its overall condition just became a parts car in my book. So why did I say that? I felt the PO was trying to pull one over on some person who would not know the work/labor to install another frame. One later post honestly asked "if it was OK to drive it like that?" How many times have you heard of a car being sold that was misrepresented, or a person drove out/flew out to look at it only to come back a little steamed because the car was not as advertised? Remember the bogus and cobbled together '65 GTO that was being sold by one of those auto malls? Nothing was correct, not the VIN, Data Tag, or even the body. I flat out hate those who would try to pull wool over the eyes of some guy who has more money than common sense and then finds out later he got punked. I don't have any tolerance for thieves or con men who are that slimy that they could sell their mothers and still sleep well.

The policy over at PY, and yes, I get it, its their policy and I have to follow the "rules" or get my post deleted because you are not supposed to make any comments that are not supportive, boost the ego of the seller, or ask a question. I feel that an honest comment about a car, item, or service MAY stir up further questions and open the eyes of those who are automobile ignorant only because they want to enter the hobby, but just did not have enough knowledge or experience with these cars as some of us on this forum do. Would you let your child put his/her hand full on a hot burner, or would your knowledge and experience of what a hot burner/heat can do cause you to snatch the child's hand away from the hot burner????? The child is ignorant/innocent to the results of a hot burner on the skin - you are not. So in my opinion, and yes, opinions are just like butt holes as everyone has one, but I would rather give my honest opinions and get my post pulled and myself banned than stand on the side lines and say nothing - because I have a conscience and know how many times I have been screwed because I did not know better, trusted the "other" person, or was lied to. I won't apologize ever for my ways, but it seems this nation has somehow reverted to this kind of thinking - apologize and ask for forgiveness from all because we don't want to offend or hurt feelings. I suppose I could have been a littler more caring and "softer" with my comments and instead turned my comment into a question so as not to offend the OP - like "Would that rotted out frame support 2 fat bottom girls without snapping in two and needing a complete replacement?" Maybe Stuart would have been OK with that, I'll try that next time.

I am one of those Peckerwoods because I don't wear rose colored glasses, I see things for what they are, I don't just roll over or ignore things like I never saw/heard it and I don't do things I have to apologize for. I speak my mind, no *****-footing around as I don't have time for it, and in that way you know exactly where I stand and don't have to ass-u-me or guess. I also listen, an art that seems to be lost because no one wants to listen, they just want to be heard.

Cheers,
JM2C


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Its society in gerneral wants to be safe and comfortable. I am 54 years old and have 2 preK , one kindergarten , one second grade an one 9th grade. The school system thinks we should just role over and do what they say. I give them crap all the time about their knee jerk saftey policies. I remind them that we have had kids in this school before them and will have kids there when the teacher and stafff are gone. My oldest girl she had me go with her to a pick a part in Kansas City. Some indusrial park huge building but still a junk yard.She needed a radiator and this is what she could afford. They send us to get one that was back in the corner couldnt get a look at it good jjust drug it to the front and trying to get back home. The guy marks it next to a crack in the tank. I said whoa we not taking that, He said all sales are final. Its not off your counter. Made him get the manager.I get her money back. We get in the car and she said those people watching we freaking out cause people dont do that here. So it doent surprise me what goes on now days. These people are just beat down with get through life with little resistance.


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## parrella (Nov 26, 2014)

Shouldn’t Stuart be required to advise the membership that he has removed a significant amount of knowledge from their resources? Does he just have the ability to ban at will without others having a say, just because he got his nose rapped with a rolled up news paper?


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## BLACK 67 GOAT (Aug 20, 2020)

07-26-2020, 02:35 PM
BLACK 67 GOAT








Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Abington Twp., Pa.
Posts: 25









*1967 GTO 400 H.O. For sale. $17,500.*
1967 Pontiac GTO H.O. 360 HP Automatic. 1 of only 13,827 produced with the H.O. engine. PHS documented ALL NUMBERS MATCH DRIVETRAIN . 26k actual miles as documented on clean and clear PA. Title in my name. Needs restoration. Will need rust repair. Fenders, doors and quarters are solid. Engine runs really good, trans shifts good and 3.55 posi works like it should. Runs, drives and stops. Great candidate for a frame off restoration. Signet gold with black Cordova top and gold interior. Call or text Me for more pictures or if you have any questions. 570-498-0756
Attached Thumbnails
[IMG alt="Click image for larger version 
Name: 1D7601F7-2AA1-4556-A4B3-F9E327A249B9.jpg Views: 681 Size: 66.1 KB ID: 545854"]https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=545854&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1595788208[/IMG] 

I posted the 67 H.O. over on PY that PJ is referring to. Here is the exact copy of my add from over on PY. I have never mislead (PULL ONE OVER ON) anyone in my life nor was i trying to with this add as PJ suggests! I clearly state WILL NEED RUST REPAIR! I NEVER said the floors were solid! I posted one picture so people could get a general idea of what the car is. I clearly stated to call or text for more info or more pictures. It's much easier to text or email a butt load of pictures than to post to a site. The problem is most people don't read the add which PJ obviously didn't or he wouldn't have said the floors were solid which I never said. The car is posted on FB marketplace as well with 20 detailed pictures of frame, floors etc. and I still get people that think they can get in and drive this car for a daily driver because they don't read the add or really look at the pictures. That is why I prefer someone call me so I can describe the car in detail and answer any questions one might have. I have sold a lot of cars and the buyers never had any surprises. I don't have a problem with someone thinking I'm asking too much, that's why it's an asking price. However I do have a problem with someone suggesting that I'm dishonest.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

"Needs restoration. Will need rust repair. Runs, drives and stops." Are probly the parts that he has issue with. Massive hole in frame, could not put on a lift cause there is not enough frame there. 
Runs drives and free cross on the side of the road. 

Dude that is structural you have people talking about driving that.as is and you say nothing.


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

I looked at the pictures and I read the ad. I dont see any mis alignmnet with the truth here. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Anyone with common sense would not drive the car with a frame like that, which is clearly visible in the photos. Additional photos were offered upon a simple request.
I dont see the problem with the ad . Just my .02 C

I am not taking sides here so dont think I am in favor of anyone more or less, but the facts are the facts, so there is that. 
If I was buying the car, I would opt to look at it in person, and I have already made up my mind a new frame is in the works. Not a huge deal for me (some maybe)
I have access to a huge shop and all the tools to do the job.


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

67 GTO and Skylark Convertible Frame






www.garys-classics.net


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

Now, that being said, I also think that the moderators response was over zealous and rude. A simple "read the guidelines" warning would have sufficed.I feel PJ was a victim.

I like PJ. I must say, he is a wealth of knowledge and seems like a level headed Guy. 

Most of you may know me from Hotrodders.com as I am a moderator over there.... surprise....

Like I said, read the guidelines would have been the larger part of my post in response to the problem.Certainly not ban worthy.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Interesting wording you have there, But Truth is always Truth. facts do change.


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

Facts only change when circumstances change. The car is still rusty.That wont change, at least not overnight.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

I’m going to support PJ on this one


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

Sure. I wont disagree. Re read my last few posts. Like I said , not a ban worthy offense. I think the Mod was a bit thin skinned as well. 

Re read it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Well the truth is he never mentioned a massive hole in the frame in the ad. Only in follow up.Rust does not equal massive hole.


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

He did not mention it. You are right.


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

PontiacJim said:


> I just had to post this in the General discussion for all to see. Yep, banned as you can see from the message sent me from the PY Nazi Moderator named Stuart. LOL
> 
> Little bit of a clique over at PY and heaven forbid you speak your mind or get sarcastic with any of the "good ole boys" and ruffle their feathers. Don't even think about questioning any of their technical responses by one of the guru's, as you might think you were questioning God himself. At best, if they find you annoying, but you aren't challenging their authority,.........they simply ignore you as there are two member on there who used to frequent here that they always ignore.
> 
> ...


LOL!

Pretty much nailed it.

Stewie and Bman have a major case of Napoleon complex


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

BLACK 67 GOAT said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Big difference between RUST and ROT especially when it comes to the frame.

You may not be dishonest but your ad is misleading with missing pertinent info that seems to be left out for a reason. Guys around here get a 15/16" wrench up the side of there head for wasting people's time like that. Especially guys that don't do farsebook.


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

NOS Only said:


> Big difference between RUST and ROT especially when it comes to the frame.
> 
> You may not be dishonest but your ad is misleading with missing pertinent info that seems to be left out for a reason. Guys around here get a 15/16" wrench up the side of there head for wasting people's time like that. Especially guys that don't do farsebook.


You gotta ask the tough questions, ask for more pics. Any reputable seller will provide the pictures and answer questions.If not, that is a good sign he is hiding something.
Spending any of my hard earned money on anything means I am going to research it, look it over well, check the title ,etc.
Buyer beware. 
Metal rusts, wood rots, lets be clear, but I understand your enthusiasm of the whole rusty mess. I personaly would not buy a rusty car like that .Mine came from the SW desert.It is pretty solid.I have no desire to fix rust LOL


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I purchased a 67 Cougar a few years ago that had both shock tower covers missing. It was not disclosed. I thought a rubber flap went there like on the inner fenders of chevys and such. Turns out this a structural piece that reinforces the shock tower and has the bumper to limit front suspension travel. Needless to say if I traveled over raised train tracks like we have in the country. They would be scrapping me off the road. That is my back story on this. A long time cougar enthusist stopped me from driving it this way. Dont assume people know. In this communication age not all people communicate well. I know I dont.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

BLACK 67 GOAT said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, I will admit my poor memory on the floors, I picked that up with "Fenders, doors and quarters are solid." 

However, no mention of floors, so assume "not solid" and that should have been upfront in the first description.

Scroll down to Post #6 and that's where the frame rot and the poorly pitted underside is seen. This too, in my opinion, should have been up front in the first description. I get that you are trying to promote the positive attributes of the car in an effort to sell it. But in my opinion, as is often done, the bad news items of the car are not included right off the bat. Personally, I don't play that game. You can put lipstick on a turd to pretty it up and sell it, but in the end, its still a turd. I don't need to call/text for more info and waste both my time and a sellers time only to find out, yeah, the frame is rusted away and it'll need a replacement, or yeah, the floors and inner rockers are badly pitted and rusty. I've lived in the rust belt. I know what the cause of rotted frames come from. Along with a rotted frame is the 95% chance that flooring is in poor condition. Now if it was not salt, then it sat in a field and the results can be the same. Moisture from the ground will rot frames as well as floors - I've looked at and worked on enough of these to include cars I owned.

You may not feel that you are dishonest, but in my opinion, your out of the gate photo and description was not up front, and to me, borders on not being honest. Your scapegoat is adding that people can call/text you for more info. Yep, someone did ask for more pics, and you supplied them. Why not post those same pics originally - which would have fared better as an honest description along with this car cannot be driven as is and will not pass a safety inspection seeing so many people seem to think it is a car you can hop in and drive. Maybe they are reading the ad and seeing the photos, but maybe your audience is not that mechanically car savvy but have the money and would not know what even a frame is, so this may be on you for not posting in a manner that those with more money than common sense can understand.

In restoring or rebuilding any car, I want to know all the problems and what needs fixing so I can make a qualified decision if I want to even look at the car or take it on as project. In the manner you structured your ad, you did not provide that info which is more important to anyone truly looking to work on/with such a car. You are correct, you can put any price on the car you choose, but in doing so, the investment typically has to justify the return in most cases. Does it mean the car won't sell? Who knows.

Maybe in the future, you will take a different approach with cars you sell. Put the known problems and repairs needed right up front in your first ad/post so as to provide a complete picture of what you are actually selling - an honest approach. Let potential buyers see what they may have to actually invest and decide for themselves if your selling price is a good value or one that will require a heavy investment in restoration costs that they may or may not be willing to jump into. Then let those who may be interested text/call you for more details about the photos they see.

So my take on your post still stands. It was not an attack on you personally, but an example of how PY will delete any reply/post that is comment other than positive, supportive, or question. Again, if you are going to post on a public forum, then you should be able to accept ALL comments or don't post. But, it is a PY policy that you cannot do this and Stuart the Nazi moderator has the power to delete or ban people. I PM'd Stuart and suggested he could easily eliminate any future comments/posts that are not favorable, and I've seen other posts he apparently did not catch, by simply not allowing anyone to comment/post on the forum and could only PM the seller directly. Would end all issues and Stuart could spend more time playing shuffle board rather than be tied down to the computer at the home.


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

LATECH said:


> You gotta ask the tough questions, ask for more pics. Any reputable seller will provide the pictures and answer questions.If not, that is a good sign he is hiding something.
> Spending any of my hard earned money on anything means I am going to research it, look it over well, check the title ,etc.
> Buyer beware.
> Metal rusts, wood rots, lets be clear, but I understand your enthusiasm of the whole rusty mess. I personaly would not buy a rusty car like that .Mine came from the SW desert.It is pretty solid.I have no desire to fix rust LOL


Nobody should have to ask if the frame is shot.

That's the first thing the seller knows. Should be the first thing the seller lists. Anything less is deception.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

you should do a dummy account and just troll the crap out of them.


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## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

deanhickey said:


> you should do a dummy account and just troll the crap out of them.


You should do a dummy account and ask him all the IMPORTANT questions that should be asked.That will let his true character shine through..

Then request a video of the COMPLETE FRAME.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Ya, I don't mean to rank on the guy, but this was a good example of my dealings with PY and why I got spanked. I think most seem to agree that those pics should have been in post #1 and with a much better overall description, rather than a generic one. This was one reason why I was compelled to post a comment and no doubt was a little rude, but it really ticked me off as it I was seeing a Bait-and-Hook move hoping some poor sucker bites.

So that was just one of my posts that got deleted real quick and I got a nasty reminder from Stuart, or some moderator, what the PY policy was for the Sale Sections. I do not agree with the PY policy, as those less experienced or simply an auto enthusiast without the needed knowledge to protect themselves can get into trouble thinking an item was a great deal when in fact its wasn't so.

I think we know this kind of selling happens and we have had members share some of these experiences as they were car hunting. The difference is that they typically provided the info or website for us to view and voice comments on the car in question. We all seem to pick up on different things that may not look correct or just right that can help the would be purchaser see what we see and either ask more questions of the seller or do a little more research and make a better informed decision as to whether to purchase or not. Isn't that what we should be doing, constructive criticism of a car or part being sold? Apparently on PY you just can't willy-nilly throw your comments out there on what you see and provide opinion. So I guess PY has no issues promoting "snakes" who could ultimately take advantage of the naive Pontiac enthusiast who may want to enter the Pontiac world and keep the torch burning for the next generation. Shame on PY, shame on their policies, and shame on moderators like Stuart.

I also think they have too many individual sections which promote bullying because it is very easy for an individual, or group of individuals, to run the section and somewhat control it through ignoring you completely, telling you that your post is not contributing to the topic, trying to make you believe THEY are the expert here and not you, or "you know this is the race section, right?" when you are commenting on oil pans (I believe that was what it was) on a street car - I suppose no one races a street car, right? I see members post in both "Street," "Race," and in the category their car falls into just to cover all bases and get an answer from someone because even they are not sure where they should post their question. So again, shame on PY for allowing this to develop and not notice. "Street" & "Race" should simply be grouped as "High Performance" to bust up these members and cliques, and some of the sections should be grouped together under a generalized heading which may even help with better responses.

But what do I know, I'm a Peckerwood. LOL


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I post in " Street" with my highly modified GTO. I post in "Race" for my racecar - no street driving at all.


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## tiretread (Sep 28, 2015)

For a Peckerwood, Jim is good people. Always willing to help out this guy with his dumbass questions..


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## petersmith98 (Oct 19, 2020)

I like your irritability. you have said it all without hesitation


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## 1969 tempest custom s (Sep 9, 2020)

dont feel bad Jim, lots of refugees over here from py.

bi man is the worst of the lot. tried to commit a bit of fraud, in my opinion, befor he became a moderator. right before he became a moderator all our correspondence started being edited then disapeared compleatly. go figure. also he posted some pornographic pictures and disrespected veterans. He became a moderator and i got banned. couple of fraudsters still trolling around over there including some lout from tucson who i contracted to do machine work on my 428. lost my crank shaft and 1500 dollars. I simply asked another victim of this clown to pm me and it got edited out. hes still on there i became critical of some clowns giving bad and unsafe advice, and they banned me and some poor sap who had a 55 2dr wagon. claimed we were the same person. 

have been in pontiacs since the 70s. owned 49 to 54s, 55and 57s and 64 through 70, birds, a bodies and full size. what? i have nothing to contribute. thier loss. CCASS is bad for Ames buisness, he ran his own company into the ground, sold it to AMES. and now ruins that forum since it moved over to Ames. He should have bowed out gracefully at that point but is still the puppet master over there. I spent 1000s at Ames. now.... not a penny. Ames ought to be boycotted untill these tools go away. pure economics. covid will force thier hand.

dont feel bad Jim. alot of us have been banned, my last time I got banned. I simply lemented the fact that Ames does not sell exhuast parts for those of us who have an origonal car with single exhuast. they sell pairs of everything for duel exaust, rude remarks from other members were permitted. but i got banned. i am back there under 3 other names. lets see who they ban in the next witch hunt.

thier loss. dont feel bad,


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## 1969 tempest custom s (Sep 9, 2020)

they stalk us here on this forum


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

Now they banned or suspened a guy for posting......



> B***en's fault


…..in the lobby. He posted it as you see it quoted with the stars not as Biden.


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## 4856ronaldp (Nov 9, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I just had to post this in the General discussion for all to see. Yep, banned as you can see from the message sent me from the PY Nazi Moderator named Stuart. LOL
> 
> Little bit of a clique over at PY and heaven forbid you speak your mind or get sarcastic with any of the "good ole boys" and ruffle their feathers. Don't even think about questioning any of their technical responses by one of the guru's, as you might think you were questioning God himself. At best, if they find you annoying, but you aren't challenging their authority,.........they simply ignore you as there are two member on there who used to frequent here that they always ignore.
> 
> ...


thats ok....ill stay in touch


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

Now the mods read members PM's


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## 1969 tempest custom s (Sep 9, 2020)

you notice that it is dead over there. sometime no activity for days. they did it to them selves.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I've never been much of a fan. For me the benefit isn't sufficient enough to be worth the 'crap' one has to endure to be an active participant, plus I had a very disappointing experience with the Casperson family over one of their Pypes products.
Just my .02

Bear


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## 1969 tempest custom s (Sep 9, 2020)

now that the gentleman who ran Ames has passed, there will be no self control among the moderators at all. it will be the end of that forum.
and with nobody visiting that forum there will be no marketing exposure for Ames and they may decline too which is sad.

ego's will always destroy an organization from within. Casperson more than likely did it to his own company and now maybe Ames as well.

the forums on face book are very lively but strange thing is... there is no recrimination or hostility like on the pee why? forum. 

lots of dubious business conducted by the CCas psycho phants.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

😔Steve Ames has not had anything to do with Ames Performance, aka Max performance in years. 
And likely really never had anything to do with their online forums.


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> 😔Steve Ames has not had anything to do with Ames Performance, aka Max performance in years.
> And likely really never had anything to do with their online forums.


No. And Steve had higher standards. That is why people respected him.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Chris Casperson did not "lose" Performance Years. He prefers to do new things rather than the "standard" parts business. So he sold PY so he could focus on Pypes, Cold Case and newly designed Pontiac parts. I've never had any difficulties with him at all. My experience with him goes back into the early 90's with PY.


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

1969 tempest custom s said:


> dont feel bad Jim, lots of refugees over here from py.
> 
> bi man is the worst of the lot. tried to commit a bit of fraud, in my opinion, befor he became a moderator. right before he became a moderator all our correspondence started being edited then disapeared compleatly. go figure. also he posted some pornographic pictures and disrespected veterans. He became a moderator and i got banned. couple of fraudsters still trolling around over there including some lout from tucson who i contracted to do machine work on my 428. lost my crank shaft and 1500 dollars. I simply asked another victim of this clown to pm me and it got edited out. hes still on there i became critical of some clowns giving bad and unsafe advice, and they banned me and some poor sap who had a 55 2dr wagon. claimed we were the same person.
> 
> ...


I got this email last night. Here's an excerpt. They obviously have moderation issues by people on a power trip.



> Eric Casperson <[email protected]>
> PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together
> 
> Mon, Apr 12 at 3:01 PM
> ...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BearGFR said:


> ... I had a very disappointing experience with the Casperson family over one of their Pypes products.


It wasn't with Chris, at least not at first. It was with his son I think. I had a set of their electric cutouts and one quit working. I sent it in to take advantage of their 'lifetime warranty'. Note that up until this point, I'd had no experience at all with them and no reason to have any opinion one way or the other.

They sent it back, saying that they were refusing the warranty due to "improper installation". I called, spoke with them to get the details, and was told that I had wired them incorrectly and caused the motor to burn out. I tried to argue, but didn't get anywhere. At that point I figured I had nothing to lose, so I took the failed cutout that they returned apart myself. I found this:











Yes, those are (or rather WERE) plastic gears in a part intended to be installed on an exhaust system. It was pretty obvious that no one at Pypes had made even a token effort to examine the part, otherwise they would have found what I did. 

I called back - understandably less than pleased this time. They eventually sent me a replacement. I subsequently replaced them both with similar cutouts from a different source - ones that have metal gears.

I do still have the remainder of the Pypes exhaust system on my car and I've been satisfied with it. 

Like I said, up until this experience I had no opinion one way or the other, but this kinda soured me and caused me to doubt their trustworthiness.

My .02, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, slippery when wet, past performance is not a guarantee of future return.

Bear


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

BearGFR said:


> It wasn't with Chris, at least not at first. It was with his son I think. I had a set of their electric cutouts and one quit working. I sent it in to take advantage of their 'lifetime warranty'. Note that up until this point, I'd had no experience at all with them and no reason to have any opinion one way or the other.
> 
> They sent it back, saying that they were refusing the warranty due to "improper installation". I called, spoke with them to get the details, and was told that I had wired them incorrectly and caused the motor to burn out. I tried to argue, but didn't get anywhere. At that point I figured I had nothing to lose, so I took the failed cutout that they returned apart myself. I found this:
> 
> ...


I have a Pypes system on my car and it's way too quiet. I believe it to be the xpipe, so I called them and asked about it. They told me that the Pypes mufflers I had were not aggressive enough (they were the middle of the only three that they make), and that I needed louder mufflers. So I spent another $200 and bought the louder mufflers. They made no difference. 

I removed the xpipe and put the "quiet mufflers" back on, and now it sounds like a GTO.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I too have a Pypes system, down pipes to a crossover, race pro mufflers and tailpipes and tips all 2.5 polished and I think it's pretty loud in the cabin and my wife could hear me get on it about a mile away with the windows open, but I haven't had anyone do a drive by for me to hear it.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I too have a Pypes system, down pipes to a crossover, race pro mufflers and tailpipes and tips all 2.5 polished and I think it's pretty loud in the cabin and my wife could hear me get on it about a mile away with the windows open, but I haven't had anyone do a drive by for me to hear it.


I’ll volunteer to do the drive by Baaad!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ha, ok next time you're in northwestern Illinois let's do it!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I too have a Pypes system, down pipes to a crossover, race pro mufflers and tailpipes and tips all 2.5 polished and I think it's pretty loud in the cabin and my wife could hear me get on it about a mile away with the windows open, but I haven't had anyone do a drive by for me to hear it.


Mine is SUPER quiet... Meaning, compared to a 67 GTO, 400, dual exhaust with glass packs.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Since I inadvertently revived this 8 month old thread.. Jim, in the interest of the topic:

I'm a musician and I belong to the oldest, largest musician forum on net. My sarcastic sense of humor (along with my zest for coffee, music, alcohol, and food) attracted a bunch of other nuts, like me.

Other members started to complain, but since we we all held in high esteem, we were allowed to start an asylum for ourselves in the "off topic" section of the website. However, the thread rapidly became the most popular thread in the history of the site, and in less than two months, there were fifty, daily participants, and a few thousand pages.

Although we were whacko's, I ruled the thread with an iron hand, and we NEVER broke forum policy.

That wasn't good enough. The "good old boys" club... regulars... traditionalists... became jealous and so one of them shut us down, for no reason... other than a parting insult. They laughed in our face and told me to go start a Google Hangout... So I "one upped" them. I built my own arts and entertainment website. and although it's been slow lately (due to spring, like the rest of the web), it's very busy.

We even have our own brand of coffee now!

It's an assembly of all different walks... doctors, attorneys, engineers, fireman, nurses, accountants, tradesman. All helping each other out, just like here, only with dealing with taxes, divorce, loss of loved ones, etc. It has been an incredible and rewarding experience, to find people who are SOOOO different from each other, and then teach them to get along and respect each other. I've not found that any other place, until I came here.

Everyone here has been very helpful with getting my GTO back on track and I enjoy spending a good portion of my day, here, trying to return the favor. Sometimes, all I can do is cry along with you when things don't go right, but in my experience, that's more than most humans would do.

So thanks to every one for the friendship and GTO advice, and Jim, even when I thought you were a crab, I still liked you! Lol... How can you not like someone who contributes to society? Jealous haters find a way.

Anyone needing any help with anything from cooking Beef Wellington to wiring up solar panels, or if you're interested in music, coffee, food, art, entertainment, read this. I think our coffee is a lot like Jim.








SCTMMC Coffee No. 1, the Low-End-Blend


Brought to you by the SCTMMC. A meeting place for brilliant minds, soldiers, explorers, and creators… Nothing alike but acting as one. United by the belief that fact and opinion are no…




sctmmc.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Did you try the race pro mufflers that's what the Pypes rep recommended.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Did you try the race pro mufflers that's what the Pypes rep recommended.


Are they the loudest? I forget their names now, but I know they have three levels. I finally made my own mufflers, the other night... It's still so quiet inside, but it sounds good outside.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sounds good ! There're mufflers are Street Pro which is the quietest, Race Pro which I have and The Violator which is just a straight through pipe. I listened to so many on line but it's difficult because of so many variants of motors, headers or not, camera mic's, distance and so on so I just called and told them I don't want it deafening in the cockpit, and there's no droning sound either like my wife's 2013 Challenger with a cat back system...can't stand that thing when the car is in overdrive ! Having trouble posting a video through here, any suggestions?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes mine were the race pro's! They were straight through, too. I typically use a stainless muffler, made by Cherry Bomb, called the Salute... It's a conventional muffler, but straight through, like a glass pack or the race pro. However, on this car, bioth were far too quiet.

Oddly enough, my 70 vette with a low performance 350 and the mufflers all the way under the back bumper, sounds like a top fuel dragster. That was my first clue that the x pipe was the culprit.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I post my vids on youtube and then link to them here. I don't know how I would do it otherwise


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

watch(1).html


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I can't figure out how to post the videos from youtube but they're under New carb and New carb 2 one is shot through the hood opening and one of the rear quarter showing the exhaust....if you know go ahead and post them here thanks.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

A friend had a 1970 LeMans with cherry bomb header mufflers and the exhaust out at the quarter windows. Took a ride across OKC and it was nothing but hand signals the entire way. Having no AC did not help.


Baaad65 said:


> I can't figure out how to post the videos from youtube but they're under New carb and New carb 2 one is shot through the hood opening and one of the rear quarter showing the exhaust....if you know go ahead and post them here thanks.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

THANKS ! Just thought if you want a sense of sound but I know it's in a garage and I was trying out the new carb wasn't focusing on the exhaust.


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

This thread is about Pontiac Jim and others being banned from PY forum, not exhaust systems. It is also about bad forum mods, not bad business practices.

Can we get back on topic?

If you want to talk about exhaust systems, start a thread, not hijack one.

It would also be nice if good forum mods deleted off-topic posts. Thanks


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Sorry wasn't trying to hijack anything it just drifted there and I got carried away.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

NOS Only said:


> This thread is about Pontiac Jim and others being banned from PY forum, not exhaust systems. It is also about bad forum mods, not bad business practices.
> 
> Can we get back on topic?
> 
> ...


Grab a beer or 12 and relax, they don’t mean any harm . At least there actively posting


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I just had to post this in the General discussion for all to see. Yep, banned as you can see from the message sent me from the PY Nazi Moderator named Stuart. LOL
> 
> Little bit of a clique over at PY and heaven forbid you speak your mind or get sarcastic with any of the "good ole boys" and ruffle their feathers. Don't even think about questioning any of their technical responses by one of the guru's, as you might think you were questioning God himself. At best, if they find you annoying, but you aren't challenging their authority,.........they simply ignore you as there are two member on there who used to frequent here that they always ignore.
> 
> ...


Thats f**in hilarious I got banned in a forum for exchanging phone numbers, the guy called me on it I didnt say anything so he banned me for not apologizing. What a dick, that was a year ago in ILGM forum. Never been back could give a ***


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Where you see "my troubles" I see "my experience." Bringing it here, or anywhere for that matter is offering up an awareness in the differences between PY and the GTO forum. It is also a form of a review - something popular and often done on the internet so people can decide for themselves about a product, service, and in this case, a forum.
> 
> I can deal with Peckerwoods - that's not the problem. The problem is you can't go against those Peckerwoods or you get banned - that's the point. CENSORSHIP and the ability to ban anyone should not be in the power of 1 person who decides what is a "good" post/reply, and what is a "bad" post/reply. Good or Bad is SUBJECTIVE and based on one's perspective which is an homogenization of their upbringing, schooling, life experiences, cultural surroundings, self accepted morals, values, & ethics, ie their "programming." Should I decide what is "good" or "bad" for you based on what I see as "good" or "bad" for me? If that were true, then individuality would not exist. It would also not represent what America is and the rights we do enjoy. I don't live in a Communist or Socialist country - yet. Following some rules makes you a sheep. Pushing the limits of the rules tests them, and can sometimes find the faults in the rules which need to be altered in making a better rule.
> 
> ...


Oh and Jim thanks for all your knowledge you guys here really help in more ways than you know


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

So, I logged in just now to do my "moderator stuff" and found that someone had reported a bunch of posts in this thread as being "off topic".
All that did was clog up my 'moderator box' with a bunch of stuff I had to read and deal with to dismiss.

Obviously, this thread stuck a nerve with more than a few people who wanted to talk about it, and that's perfectly fine with me.

I'm not going to turn this place into one that's unfriendly, rigid, and inflexible.

For the record, if I'd had a problem with the direction the conversation was taking I would have said or done something already.

Cheers,
Bear


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

BearGFR said:


> So, I logged in just now to do my "moderator stuff" and found that someone had reported a bunch of posts in this thread as being "off topic".
> All that did was clog up my 'moderator box' with a bunch of stuff I had to read and deal with to dismiss.
> 
> Obviously, this thread stuck a nerve with more than a few people who wanted to talk about it, and that's perfectly fine with me.
> ...


Thanks... and I apologize that I was the one who led things astray. As others mentioned, "we" all come here in our free time to learn and socialize with our GTO brethren. I was merely stimulating activity, conversation, and education.

At least, that was my intent.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Thanks... and I apologize that I was the one who led things astray. As others mentioned, "we" all come here in our free time to learn and socialize with our GTO brethren. I was merely stimulating activity, conversation, and education.
> 
> At least, that was my intent.


That is just nit picking, you did nothing wrong.PJ probably appreciates his thread going on and on👍


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

pontrc said:


> That is just nit picking, you did nothing wrong.PJ probably appreciates his thread going on and on👍


Lol. Who doesnt wish to be immortal?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

pontrc said:


> That is just nit picking, you did nothing wrong.PJ probably appreciates his thread going on and on👍


Na, the thread doesn't have to go on and on, but it exemplifies what I found on PY. I do check in on PY and add some input - which still is sometimes avoided or ignored, but I am OK with that as long as I don't get banned or my post removed. There is still some of the arrogance I don't care much for and think it is counter productive, but that's human nature as well, so be it.

I still see how some posts do get a little heated and arrows are shot, but these are let alone and nothing done about it - maybe the moderators got the message and let the attacks fly a little more freely. I think most of us can take some heat, and when it goes past a certain point, others should be coming down on the bad apples and self-regulating some of the comments, but the post should not necessarily be removed UNLESS a moderator contacts the person that the offense or ill will is being directed at and agrees he/she wants the post removed. I think we all know where the line is with offensive language based on its intent. I used the word "penis" in a post and my post was deleted. Wasn't directed at anyone and it was a general comment IF I recall correctly - about those 4-wheel guys who have those sky high big tired trucks that like to breathe down your neck and push you down the road because they have small "penises." (It is the only way they can impress women, unlike us Pontiac owners!)

PY has now opened a new Topic Heading which they have allowed to include any type conversation or topic with the understanding that you better be able to handle it as they are not going to delete or regulate any post within the topic category. So if you want to talk politics, religion, racism, women, men, or just blow off steam - enter at your own risk, and don't contact a moderator and complain.

armyadarkness "Lol. Who doesnt wish to be immortal? "

PJ: Yes, I am already immortal and................if you want my body and you think I'm sexy, it's OK, it doesn't mean you're gay. My body was sculpted by the gods themselves and who wouldn't admire a body like mine? I was the one who gave Rod Stewart the words to his song,


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Pontiac Jim, I did not see that one coming. Have a great weekend!


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## 1969 tempest custom s (Sep 9, 2020)

no, the problem started with chris. long before Ames took over. I tried to reason with him on several issues but all he could say was that there was "no conspiracy going on." He went on and on about it. I never mentioned it or suspected it until he denied it. but strange patterns began to become quite apparent . Lots of people went off line to compare notes. Nobody felt or feels safe even PM'ing each other over there. Even a few moderators walked off the job when it became clear that some people were to be singled out for closer "survailance".

And no offense Mr Taylor but nobody walks away from a business like Performance Years to start a copy cat muffler shop. or develope parts. You, being who you are, probably got treated with more dignity and respect than us lesser humans so really your experience is likely to differ in some respects. The number of people expressing a different opinion on this thread suggests they might not have experienced the joy that you have. just sayin.

As for Mr Ames. Hmm? Every thing I have read about his passing suggests he remained a major influence at Ames and a significant influence the pontiac hobby. He bought out PY and its forum. but for the most part allowed Chris and his cronies to manage it. , the forum. There was some Positive changes on that forum but no change of the old guard in general and the few new hires among moderators reflected the nurosis of CCass. I think several people had reached out to Ames about the behaviour over there. It says alot about CCass that the Forum is the only part of his bussiness that he otherwise gave up that he still wants to continue to control. I think it might have been a mistake to allow him to maintain control of the forum. it has nothing to do with his muffler shop or "parts development". But there is alot of ego involved when one cannot fully relenquish that last little bit of control, especially when its control over somebody elses opinion or thier ability to express it.

When you do that CCass, we simply move somewhere else, like here, or on face book where you have no control.

can you here me now?


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## NOS Only (Nov 14, 2017)

1969 tempest custom s said:


> no, the problem started with chris. long before Ames took over. I tried to reason with him on several issues but all he could say was that there was "no conspiracy going on." He went on and on about it. I never mentioned it or suspected it until he denied it. but strange patterns began to become quite apparent . Lots of people went off line to compare notes. Nobody felt or feels safe even PM'ing each other over there. Even a few moderators walked off the job when it became clear that some people were to be singled out for closer "survailance".
> 
> can you here me now?


If you put it in a PM he'll hear you loud and clear.


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