# diff. heads



## gtodude41206 (Jan 13, 2007)

What is a rough estimate of horse power gains on getting new heads like dart or any type. Im thinking about uprgrading but not sure the gains


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## Route 66 (May 30, 2005)

About 40hp


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## fiddler_red (May 9, 2007)

*heads*

seems expensive for just a 40 hp gain.....


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I was looking through the Summit racing catalog and saw the Edellbrock heads machined by Lingenfelter ($2419). I called them and talked to a tech guy because they advertise in the catalog that they are for the LS1 and mention nothing of the LS2, but there are only minor differences between the two engines.

He said yes, they bolt right on. So I call up GM Performance Parts and ask them what the difference was in the LS2 and LS6 engines and heads, because the LS6 heads are more expensive. He said the LS6 heads have hollow stem intakes and sodium filled exhaust valves. That's the only difference in the heads. As for the rest of the engine, he said basically the only difference was that the LS6 has a bigger cam. For $571.34, GM makes the LS6 hollow stem valve kit for us LS2 guys. 

I then ask the GM Performance Parts guy about the Edellbrock/Lingenfelter heads and others like them. He said I didn't need them, that they were a waste of money, that the LS2 heads simply scream, and sure as hell didn't mention anything about 40hp gains from the aftermarket, but again, this is coming from a GM employee. 

My next question was if I buy the valve job kit and the LS6 cam, and have them installed at the dealership by GM personnel, does that void my warranty? He said yes, you will lose your warranty, that GM does everything they can to find loopholes and that this situation falls into one of the loopholes. Nice company, huh? I was looking into the Edellbrock/Lingenfelter heads myself, and would jump all over them if it really did give you a 40hp gain. The LS6 heads are $2040, quite a bit cheaper then the Edellbrock/Lingenfelter heads, which one do you guys think would be better? Some more feedback from anybody out there who has swapped heads out would be greatly appreciated. 

By the way, I was also looking at cams. The LS6 hotcam kit is ($571) with I:219, E:228. They have another LS6 cam I:204 E:218 for about $350. Would the hotcam kit stack up as good or better then the aftermarket cams out there? I know it's alot to chew on, but why pay 5 bucks for a GM Performance Catalog if you're not gonna pick through it? lol. 

By the way, the part number for the LS6 valve conversion kit for our LS2's is 17801930 and can be found at gmperformanceparts.com.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

dustyminpin said:


> ...My next question was if I buy the valve job kit and the LS6 cam, and have them installed at the dealership by GM personnel, does that void my warranty? He said yes, you will lose your warranty, that GM does everything they can to find loopholes and that this situation falls into one of the loopholes...
> 
> ...By the way, I was also looking at cams. The LS6 hotcam kit is ($571) with I:219, E:228. They have another LS6 cam I:204 E:218 for about $350. Would the hotcam kit stack up as good or better then the aftermarket cams out there? I know it's alot to chew on, but why pay 5 bucks for a GM Performance Catalog if you're not gonna pick through it? lol.
> 
> By the way, the part number for the LS6 valve conversion kit for our LS2's is 17801930 and can be found at gmperformanceparts.com...


I was just on there and looking at the samething! I called my service guy and he said if I get GM performance parts and they install them, my warranty would still be in effect. I have to call him on monday to find out the cost of the install and what kind of tuning they do.

I have been studying a lot on cams and lift/duration and the cam I was looking from GMperformanceparts.com was the LS6 Hot cam kit p/n 12480033 which has the 219/228 duration @ .5 and .525/.525 lift. Not quite as big as some of the aftermarket cams such as the Texas Speed v.2 but it is bigger than the 200/203 .500/.500 factory cam. Their other cam is the LS1 p/n 12480110 which has more duration but the same lift but it's a 110 LSA cam. That would probably rattle my teath out. 

I have been searching all morning trying to find out gains from these cam's and the LS2 ported heads p/n 88958765 @ $844 each. The heads are 260cc but not sure if the valves are bigger than stock.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

BTW! I found a local dealer from their online dealership look-up and they offer the $571 Hot Cam for $456.80 with free freight shipping in 3 days. The LS1 p/n 12480110 cam which is their most agressive labeled "off-road use only" sellsfor $400 but you need to buy the springs for it. But if you buy their heads, the springs come with it. They also gave me a price of $844 each for the LS2 ported head with 260cc of flow. The LS6 heads are $1126.40 each and like you said earlier,the only difference is the valves. The Ls2heads are far cheaper than the aftermarket heads but at what price sacrifice for power. But like I said earlier...It will be covered under my waranty if they install it. For a 20 hp loss,it might be worth it for the hassle of no warranty. Plus, I've taken my car in for quite a few minor issues in the past so I don't want to give that up.


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

i'd just make it simple and go with the l92/l76 setup for a much better bang for the buck. but it really depends on what you want out of your car and what you are willing to live/deal with. i checked out l92 heads and they were around 1300 a pair assembled and the l76 intake was around 400-500. these heads have a similar flow to the ls7 head. that's honestly the way i am going to go whenever i get done with my other projects.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

I found it! Will these bolt up like the other LSX heads? Looks like they flow 40/25cc more than stock, 19/16cc more than the LS2 ported heads plus they have slightly bigger, solid valves. The best part is they are only $454.40 each.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

So the question still remains, which are better, the factory LS6 heads for $2040, or the Edellbroch/Lingenfelter heads for $2420? And what about cams, are there better cams out there? 571 bucks for the hi-per LS6 cam is alot of scratch. I don't mind paying more for the best (got the JHP gauges, and yes, they are overpriced, but hey, put a magnafying lens to them and compare them to what's behind the steering wheel, and you can't tell the difference, he he he). 12564824 is the only part number to look at, and I'm still not convinced it can beat the 2400 dollar Edellbrock/Lingenfelter Heads from Summit Racing Catalog......Please, somebody out there who has made the move.....Talk To Me Goose.......(from Top Gun)


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

The Gmperformanceparts web site only lists the L92 assembled head, p/n 12582713, dealer price of $454.40. On paper, it is the better head for half the price of the LS2. Question remains, what is the power of their head and cam assemblies? Guess I'll find out Monday when I speak to my service guy. This damn money is burning a hole in my pocket!


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Dude, looking at that head right now in my catalog and that IS NOT the one you want. Part number 12564824 is the big dog. Be a a big dog or stay on the porch. And they're not cheap, $2040 for the set. GM tricks you and gives you the price for 1 head. Hahaha. The bastards, they then tell you, you might want to buy the right hander to match the left. They come with the hollow stem intakes and sodium filled exhaust so you don't have to worry about paying the 570 bucks for the optional Z06 valve job down the road.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

I was reading the gm high-tech performance site regarding the testing of the L92 heads. For under $1000 for the set, sounds good. Their testing was done with the L76 intake. How about the FAST intake I have. This should be better than the L76 right? Also, is it compatable with the L92 heads? If I can get these heads and the LS6 hot cam installed by the dealer, I'm sold!!!!!


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm jealous about your dealer. I've talked to 3 different dealers down here and they all said my warranty would go bye bye.


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

LYNMUP said:


> I was reading the gm high-tech performance site regarding the testing of the L92 heads. For under $1000 for the set, sounds good. Their testing was done with the L76 intake. How about the FAST intake I have. This should be better than the L76 right? Also, is it compatable with the L92 heads? If I can get these heads and the LS6 hot cam installed by the dealer, I'm sold!!!!!


i'm not sure about the fast 90 intake but i am thinking fast makes an intake manifold that will match up to the l92 heads, if not it should be the same as the ls7 version. these heads use a cathedral port which is one thing that makes them superior to previous lsx designs. bang for the buck these have been the hot ticket. i was first exposed to the idea in gm hi-perf mag. there they got 500 hp from just a simple bolt on at the crank. using the stock camshaft i think. i can look it up. the heads will not work on the ls1 nor ls6 without unshrouding the valves due to smaller bores on these motors. i'm not certain but aren't the 243 castings that are on the ls2 the same as ls6 castings? camshaft selection will depend on what you plan on doing with your car. will you drive it on weekends only? can you deal with a higher stall convertor? can you deal with a loss of downlow torque? it is said through tuning these issues can be handled, i'm not sure about the tuners in your area but hopefully you can find one that is trustworthy and knows his stuff pretty well. good luck and happy modding.

edit: "12564243...01-up...350/364......Gen.III, "LS6", "LS2", aluminum" from mortec. so yes it is the same head.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

My main concern is that they are a 70cc chambered head. This will definatly drop my compression ratio which I don't want to do. If they came in 64 or 65cc I would be all over them. They are actually listed here for only $399. My tuner said the power gain compared to the actual cost may not be that great. Most likely looking at a step above the factory power. A lot has to do with how they flow with their cams. I will be calling the dealership and talking to my service guy tomorrow to get all the details worked out. Since my car does have an exta warranty taking coverage to 39,000 miles, I would like to not have issues if I have to take it in for something. I am just wondering how they will tune it for the cam and heads if I go the GM performance parts route. So many choices and decisions. The wife said she'd rather say screw the warranty and get what will give the best performance for what we want. You gotta live that kind of support!

I have the manual so the stall isn't an issue. But I don't want to loose any initial torque or power but want to gain more of it in the mid/high region. My tuner also said the Texas-speed 224/224 .566/.566 would probably make me and the car very happy with the tune. He actually recommended a 225/225 .573.573 cam. No one makes a grind in those specs so I'm wondering if he knows something about that particurlar combination of lift and duration! Maybe I'll have a custom grind done for that spec. I will eventually get heads after the warranty if I go aftermarket.

Since I do drive it everyday and have the family with me on the weekends, loosing the drivability features of it would suck. Usually when I drive it, I am hoping someone starts a fight. I just want to make sure I will finish it if on does start. Nothing like the suprise factor!


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

koman said:


> i'm not sure about the fast 90 intake but i am thinking fast makes an intake manifold that will match up to the l92 heads, if not it should be the same as the ls7 version. these heads use a cathedral port which is one thing that makes them superior to previous lsx designs. bang for the buck these have been the hot ticket. i was first exposed to the idea in gm hi-perf mag. there they got 500 hp from just a simple bolt on at the crank. using the stock camshaft i think. i can look it up. the heads will not work on the ls1 nor ls6 without unshrouding the valves due to smaller bores on these motors. i'm not certain but aren't the 243 castings that are on the ls2 the same as ls6 castings? camshaft selection will depend on what you plan on doing with your car. will you drive it on weekends only? can you deal with a higher stall convertor? can you deal with a loss of downlow torque? it is said through tuning these issues can be handled, i'm not sure about the tuners in your area but hopefully you can find one that is trustworthy and knows his stuff pretty well. good luck and happy modding.
> 
> edit: "12564243...01-up...350/364......Gen.III, "LS6", "LS2", aluminum" from mortec. so yes it is the same head.


I remember reading the page today where they did the test of the stock heads with a stage II cam (LS2 DYNO trash part II). They were able to reach the majic 500 crank hp with the various other bolt ons. On part III they installed the L92 heads along with the L76 intake and gained near 50 more horses. Here's the article.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I was at the dealership today and asked the parts guy about the heads and he said I absolutely didn't want to mess with them because it would destroy my already dismill 18mpg A4 fuel economy, any truth to that?


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

Not sure but I did drop $775 on a cam package from Texas speed. Went with the torquer v.2 cam with 232/234 duration @.5 degrees and .595/.598 lift. I also got the dual springs and pushrods for guaranteed strength. John said this cam would pull like crazy through the entire rpm band. I have seen a lot of guys on here running this with good results and good driveablilty. 

I'm trying to get my DYNO guy to put it in this Friday so let's hope. Will post results when done!

Good news, my service guy will still work on the car but the valvetrain is unfortunatly gone now. A decision the wife and I were O.K. with. The only issues we have had are simple things non-engine related. Only 12,000 miles left until it's gone anyways. It should be over by the end of the year anyways with the driving were doing.

BTW, I read over on LS1tech.com that an aftermarket cam would net much better results than the GM head/cam combo.. Anyway, after I'm done with the warranty, I'll get some ported and polished LS2 heads which my DYNO guy said should take the GOAT to 450 rwhp. We'll see!


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

i'm waiting on warranty issues myself. i have a little less than 20k miles to go. which at my rate should be less than a year. guess i should start buying a few parts. i want to go twin turbo route. heads will be changed for the l92/l76 combo which i will do the p and p job on them


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

Are you going with the APS kit? I've heard nothing but good about that kit! It made 545 rwhp on an LS1 with their 3" exhaust and fuel system. Put that on an LS2 with the P/P heads and cam...I'd say about 675rwhp! Just my guess. Can you say "new drivetrain"?


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## bigdawg77 (Nov 5, 2006)

Whatever you do dont buy heads from summitt or gmpp they will rob you blind.

www.texas-speed.com

www.thunderracing.com

Heads by themself only give around a 30-40rwhp gain but everything for the LSX series of motors are building blocks mate LT headers to then now you get 20 from the headers but the heads now breathe better and give you 60-75.You could have your factory heads taken off and just port and polished.


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

LYNMUP said:


> Are you going with the APS kit? I've heard nothing but good about that kit! It made 545 rwhp on an LS1 with their 3" exhaust and fuel system. Put that on an LS2 with the P/P heads and cam...I'd say about 675rwhp! Just my guess. Can you say "new drivetrain"?


not sure what kit i'll go with but if things go right and i can access a machine shop i might just do my own custom fab. i was looking at sts. i'll know when the time and money comes around. until then i'll be modding my fox body to get it up to speed with the goat.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

bigdawg77 said:


> Whatever you do dont buy heads from summitt or gmpp they will rob you blind.
> 
> www.texas-speed.com
> 
> ...


I'll probably just go with LS2 ported heads and bigger valves. I will have dual springs when I get the cam so I'll re-use them. Found a shop to do it for $400 but his turn around is 5 weeks, can't go withou tthe GOAT that long.

Koman,
Let us know how the turbo goes!


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