# Header Selection



## Mitch Rapp (Jun 7, 2011)

I have a 69 with the stock 400. I ordered a set of Hedman headers and could not get the passenger side to mount properly. if it was properly bolted to the engine, the header would hit the lower control arm receiver that protrudes from the frame. Not just a little, but enough to where these headers will not work. Period. On the phone with Hedman, the thought they may have had a set go out that wasn't properly aligned when they made it. Ok, fine and dandy, I sent them back. My question is which brand/model has someone successfully installed without any major fitment issues? Doug's seems to think their D564 set would work with no issues. My engine is just getting installed so I have plenty of room to work with. Also have new motor mounts. Thanks!


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

There will be fitment issues with ALL headers - ALL - no exceptions. Some will be worse than others, but they're all going to have problems. It's just how it is.

I'm running round-port Dougs on my 69 (Edelbrock heads), they fit "fairly well" but I still had issues to deal with. I hear the D-port Dougs don't fit as well, but I don't have any first hand experience on that.

If you want performance improvement with good fit, go with reproduction Ram Air exhaust manifolds as a pretty good compromise. Nothing performs like headers, but nothing comes with headaches like headers. Make your choice, deal with the consequences 

Bear


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What Bear said, in spades. I've had the best luck with Hedmanns over the years. Some blacksmithing required, but with me, always on the driver's side ('65-'66 GTO's). Headers are great for power, but are a headache everywhere else. And after they are installed, they need to be maintained and tightened. And they still tend to warp and leak over time. The repro ram air/H.O manifolds are a better choice by far for a street driven car, IMO.


----------



## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

I love bashing headers, so I will chime in...  Just received a new set of the oversized RAM AIR manifolds for my 66 (see pics). By the time I paid for the oversize version, which are simply ported out more than the "smaller" version, a couple of mandrel bent downpipes, and a few dollars to machine the stud you see in the pic, I paid same price as a good set of headers. However, I am looking forward to no leaks, regular size oil filters, able to change a starter, clutch linkage not rattling on the headers, etc.

By the way, the stud you see mounted on the one manifold is to work better with my 7K3 heads, which are missing the end bolt holes.

If all the headaches of headers (which you are already experiencing) are worth an extra 10hp, then I say go for it!


----------



## Mitch Rapp (Jun 7, 2011)

Because I sent the Hedman's back, I wanted to try at least one other brand. I went with the Doug's that I mentioned. Going to give them a shot later today. I'm sure we can guess how that's going to go... but you never know. If there's issues with these, then i'll go with the ram air manifolds. If I do that, i'm assuming that it should all work well with the flow-master exhaust system I already bought? Or am I in for another surprise... lol. The exhaust is pretty simple, I can't see there being any issues with that. What a long road this has been so far.. my first time doing anything like this so I dove right in and decided to do a frame off. Learned a lot so far, but best of all , it's a lot of fun. Thanks for all your input. It's much appreciated.


----------



## orelog (Dec 21, 2011)

How about the 3 tube Hedman's? any feed back on these units?


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I've run 3 tube Hedmann's for years and years. They work and fit well, but for my cars (4 speeds) they required blacksmithing to clear the Z bar and A-arm bolt on the driver's side. Bang for the buck, hard to beat. I have several friends who have been running the repop Ram Air/HO cast manifolds for years now, with no leaks and no issues whatsover. In addition, their cars sound "tighter" because of no exhaust leaks or resonation in the header tubes.


----------



## bobby326 (Dec 13, 2009)

I just installed a set of douge header on my 67 lemans with edelbrock heads on a 400. They fit almost perfectly. Only had to trim the corner of thr pass side motor mount for them to fit. Only other prob is i cant take out the motor mount bold cause it hits the headers. Have to unbolt headers first. Other han that fits nice. Havent started bet so dont know if any leaks yet


----------



## joesweeting (May 8, 2011)

I'm removing my hooker competition headers and replacing with oversized Ram Air III exhaust. I'll let you know how the install goes. 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Mitch, i am running the 3 tube jet coated hedmens with no problems other than the Gyrations it takes to get the bolts threaded (all headers with Pontiacs). if i would not have gotten a killer deal on them (100.00 new) because a guy thought they would fit his RA firebird i would have invested in the RA manifolds. They perform nearly as good as headers based on all the test that have been run over the years. All you will need to hook up yoru exhaust is the correct set of down pipes from manifold to the exhaust flange.


----------



## Mitch Rapp (Jun 7, 2011)

I was going to put the Dougs in last week but got some sickness that kept me down and out for almost a whole week. This week i'll get to it and see what happens. I'll let you all know.


----------



## fredyG (Apr 18, 2012)

Why does anybody talk's about the Headman Shorty Headers # 28170 ??? They are short, should fit well, clears starter ???, are light (not the heavy IRON ) exhaust manifolds OEM or RA ?????, "maybe" not an excellent performance wise, but headers after all. Need feed back because my stock exhaust manifold are "RIP" complete rusted and I have to buy something. The choices? 1.- Hedman Shorty headers 28170, 2.- Full length (headman, Hooker, FlowTech,etc) with all the pain to install and fit or..... Ram Air's ?? my concern is weight, efficiency and fit. Which way to go ????? I appreciate advice. Thank's


----------



## fredyG (Apr 18, 2012)

Joesweeting, Does It really worth to pay extra for the Oversize Ram Air Restorations exhaust headers?? are they the same size than 1 3/4 ?? and the standard are like an OD 1 5/8 ????


----------



## fredyG (Apr 18, 2012)

how is the car behaving with the OS Ram Air Exhaust Manifolds. ???


----------



## joesweeting (May 8, 2011)

Have not installed yet, working on 5 speed install now. Have to spend some weekends with the wife instead of the garage. 


Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


----------



## Mitch Rapp (Jun 7, 2011)

So I got the Doug's headers installed. Went fairly smoothly, but I do have to relocate the brake junction block thing and the drivers side control arm receiver is rubbing slightly. I talked to Doug's and the suggested either grinding some of the receiver back or to just dent the tube slightly. Either way I go will be minor. But, they did fit good on the passenger side to where the full length Hedman's would not fit at all. I also used the Stage 8 bolts instead of the ones that came with it. So thats that. Now the rest of the exhaust.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

fredyG said:


> Why does anybody talk's about the Headman Shorty Headers # 28170 ??? They are short, should fit well, clears starter ???, are light (not the heavy IRON )


Fredy, my opinion is that no one goes with shorties because they're the "worst of both worlds". Performance isn't going to be any better than the Ram Air manifolds (maybe not even as good) but you still get most of the drawbacks of headers - i.e. sealing, keeping the bolts tight, having to replace them when they rust out, etc.

With the availability of good Ram Air manifolds, I personally would never consider shorties.

Bear


----------



## fredyG (Apr 18, 2012)

Thank you, Bear. I always appreciate a good and "on time" advise. probably I'll go with the Ram Air's, after all, it's for street use . PS. I bought the ferrea valves. 2.11/1.77 ....


----------



## joesweeting (May 8, 2011)

Installed Ram Air III exhaust this weekend. Attached are some pics. 

I only drove it home due to oil leak by oil pump. Had to remove it to get old headers out, but did not have a new gasket. 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


----------



## Mitch Rapp (Jun 7, 2011)

Looks real nice. You had those tubes made? What do you use for gaskets and do you use any hi-temp type sealer at all? My buddy just put his factory manifolds back on his T-37 and can't get them to quit leaking.


----------



## joesweeting (May 8, 2011)

Mitch Rapp said:


> Looks real nice. You had those tubes made? What do you use for gaskets and do you use any hi-temp type sealer at all? My buddy just put his factory manifolds back on his T-37 and can't get them to quit leaking.


I bought the down pipes from R.A.R.E. and had them ceramic coated. I also bought gaskets from RARE and used high temp RTV on the down pipe to manifold connection per their instructions. 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


----------



## jtwoods4 (Dec 22, 2011)

Hooker Competition 1 3/4 headers fit very nice. You may have to modify the clutch pushrod a little so it doesnt rub against the header tube. This is for manual cars only of course.

Bolting them on is definately a major pain in the arse but with patience and a very small 3/8 inch wrench it can be done.


----------



## Getyourgoat (Jul 1, 2014)

bobby326 said:


> I just installed a set of douge header on my 67 lemans with edelbrock heads on a 400. They fit almost perfectly. Only had to trim the corner of thr pass side motor mount for them to fit. Only other prob is i cant take out the motor mount bold cause it hits the headers. Have to unbolt headers first. Other han that fits nice. Havent started bet so dont know if any leaks yet


So how did it work out?
Have you had any leaking issues?
What part# Doug's headers did you use? I, thinking about installing Doug's D564 headers in my 67 GTO and can't decide if I should or not.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

joesweeting said:


> I'm removing my hooker competition headers and replacing with oversized Ram Air III exhaust. I'll let you know how the install goes.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6425LVW using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Joe, I thought you were going with a turbo'd LS engine (Sticky-LS Swap to Early GTO). Different Pontiac or did you come to your senses and change your mind??????


----------

