# Att. All Gto Owners. Please Read. Electrical Problems



## popkorn77 (Sep 23, 2004)

I AM PROUD TO SAY I HAVE TAKEN MY GTO CROSS COUNTRY, FROM CT TO ARIZONA. ALONG THE WAY I HAD SOME PROBLEMS WITH THE CLUSTER. SOMEWHERE IN PA. IT STARTED TO GIVE FALSE SPEED READINGS. I SHUT THE CAR OFF AND RESTARTED THE CAR A FEW TIMES BEFORE IT WENT BACK TO NORMALE. LATER SOMEWHERE IN OHIO IT STARTED TO GIVE FALSE FUEL READINGS AND SPEED AT THE SAME TIME. AFTER THAT I DID THE SAME THING AND RESTARTED THE CAR A FEW TIMES BEFORE IT WENT BACK TO NORMALE. I DONT KNOW WHAT MADE THIS HAPPEND AND WHEN I GOT TO AZ THE RADIO WOULD SHUT OFF. AND WHAT REALLY DID IT WAS THE SEAT DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD ANYMORE. I TOOK IT TO THE DEALER SHIP AND IT WAS PUT INTO THE COMPUTER AND IT CHECKED OUT NO PROBLEMS FOUND OTHER THAN THE SEAT NOT WORKING. SO THE PART IS ON BACK ORDER AND IT CAN BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 5 DAYS AND 4 MONTHS. GREAT!!!!!!! SO I LOVE THE CAR IT HAS JUST BEEN A NIGHTMARE. SO IF ANY ONE KNOWS ANYTHING LET ME KNOW. THANKS, UR FELLOW GTO OWNER 
:confused


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## Impulsive (Oct 1, 2004)

mine has had the same trouble with the false speed readings. It is one of the glitches in this car. I have heard of people with false temperature readings, or Heat Spikes. There is apparently some wires rubbing on the firewall causing temporary shorts.


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## Whiteshadow (Sep 28, 2004)

Hello!

I'm sorry about your troubles. Luckily I may be of some help. 

The GTO I took out for a test drive had the same problem. The tach was bouncing all around, the speedo was indicating anywhere from 60mph-120mph on a road where I was travelling 40mph at the fastest. I didn't pay much attention to anything else which was or was not working. I was very lucky that the salesman was in the car with me at the time, and he noticed the same problem with the electronics. He had me pull over, shut the car off, and restart to get on our way back to the dealership. 

After the test drive, we pulled the car into the service bay, and it was back on the lot the next day. Apparently, there is a short somewhere around the glovebox area. I believe they were saying something about the ground for some of the wires was funny, so they will fix it free of charge. 

If it was me, I'd take the car to the dealership whenever possible, and have mention the problems you are having. I guess it's a 15 minute fix at the dealership as long as they find the actual problem.

I'll check with my dealership on Monday, and let you know EXACTLY what they did to fix my demo car.


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## tskatz (Sep 29, 2004)

When one of my cell phones is getting a call the speedo somtimes bounces to 200mph. Mine is normal otherwise.


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## Sweetride01 (Nov 7, 2004)

Do you think that the problems will be fixed for '05???
Never heard of such problems in a new car before, I wouldn't buy one if it had that type of problems.


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## catchmeifucan (Sep 12, 2004)

You wouldn't buy a car over a 15 minute fix?

Like any new car, there will be the occasional bug to fix. I had a water leak in the trunk of the car. Evidently, a weld had cracked and was allowing water inside. I guess they should probably fire that darn robot that did the welding.

From everyone's feedback, it appears the GTO has been very reliable. I for one say this is the best built GM product I have ever driven.

And when I had that water problem, the dealership was more than willing to offer me a 2005 GMC Envoy to drive for a couple of days. That is the type of customer service that I like to see.


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## Sweetride01 (Nov 7, 2004)

catchmeifucan said:


> You wouldn't buy a car over a 15 minute fix?
> 
> Like any new car, there will be the occasional bug to fix. I had a water leak in the trunk of the car. Evidently, a weld had cracked and was allowing water inside. I guess they should probably fire that darn robot that did the welding.
> 
> ...


Well, at as long as the reliability is OK. Sounds like the electrical problem could keep recurring though?


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## capra2d (Aug 3, 2004)

Whiteshadow said:


> Hello!
> 
> I'm sorry about your troubles. Luckily I may be of some help.
> 
> ...


Here's a little more information to help identify the cause:

I have read that the BCM ("body control module" ?), supposedly behind the glovebox, is susceptible to shorting out or interference because of improper shielding and can cause false readings.

Good luck.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

I had the experience that my driver's side window all of the sudden stopped working properly and acted very erratic. Long story short, I left it alone and the problem went away after a couple of weeks. I have met at least four other GTO owners here and at LS1GTO forums with the same problem, which seems to be electrically related. I have had no feedback on the other guys. I have seen other forum threads reporting exactly the same problem you are reporting so definitely the GTO has a problem.

Affected GTO owners should contact Pontiac at www.pontiac.com on this for the incidence is such that I think a recall is due before someone here has his car catch on fire, hopefully not with his family and kids inside the car. I already did and you will need your vehicle vin number to submit e-mail.


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## 1stGTO (Sep 19, 2004)

*Electrical Problems Here To*

I have had several electical issues. pull up to a stop lite and the mph goes to 200mph, the classic fuel gauge misreading, the latewst and scared the be-jesues out of me, last night just listen to the exhaust with a bud, then all of a sudden the Hot / Cold guage went all the way up and I got the beeping noise showing a temp guage reading hot on the dash.

A restart of the car fixed all issues, however after thinging about this I am going to up the priority to take the car in the Dealership. ANYONE else have simlair, what the fix???? :shutme


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## 1stGTO (Sep 19, 2004)

*Electrical Issue/ Did not search site yet!!!*

I have had several electical issues. pull up to a stop lite and the mph goes to 200mph, the classic fuel gauge misreading, the latewst and scared the be-jesues out of me, last night just listen to the exhaust with a bud, then all of a sudden the Hot / Cold guage went all the way up and I got the beeping noise showing a temp guage reading hot on the dash.

A restart of the car fixed all issues, however after thinging about this I am going to up the priority to take the car in the Dealership. ANYONE else have simlair, what the fix????


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## sjbbq (Nov 8, 2004)

*Windows & Cruise*



adearmas said:


> I had the experience that my driver's side window all of the sudden stopped working properly and acted very erratic. Long story short, I left it alone and the problem went away after a couple of weeks. I have met at least four other GTO owners here and at LS1GTO forums with the same problem, which seems to be electrically related. I have had no feedback on the other guys. I have seen other forum threads reporting exactly the same problem you are reporting so definitely the GTO has a problem.
> 
> Affected GTO owners should contact Pontiac at www.pontiac.com on this for the incidence is such that I think a recall is due before someone here has his car catch on fire, hopefully not with his family and kids inside the car. I already did and you will need your vehicle vin number to submit e-mail.


 I had the same problem with the driver's side window after parking in sun for 2 hrs. later in the night the problem went away. I will send email to Pontiac about window. Although i do not plan to use cruise control , it would not work so , technian , tried to remove part from showroom car and broke the brake switch. so answer is to just use right foot.


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## Afterglow (Nov 1, 2004)

My speedo jumped to 200mph a couple times the other day. The three times it happened, I was just taking off from a stop. The third time it stuck on 200mph. I shut the car off and started it back up after 60 sec. and it seemed okay. I was also running on fumes for gas, so I thought maybe it was doing that to get my attention. Filled the tank within a few minutes of this happening and haven't seen the problem recur.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

I had the "heat spike" incident x 1 after cold start - that'll wake you up in a hurry.

sometimes the fuel gage seems inaccurate not going all the way to "Full" mark.

no speedo problems, yet.

first one out of the box is always going to have a few bugs and we'll just have to work through them.


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## 1stGTO (Sep 19, 2004)

*Wrok Through Them??*

We just paid $30.000 for a new car, we should't hav eto "work through them." :shutme


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## Guido (Oct 5, 2004)

I guess I'm not the only one. I have had the speedo and the temp problem myself. I've also had a problem with the radio going full blast by itself and then returning to the previous volume setting. I'm assuming it has something to do with the auto volume adjustment via speed. This has happened more than once.


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

I had a '90 Turbo Laser RS that did the same thing. It turned out it was the alternator.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Gee, so many GTO's with electrical problems!!!!!! Please, go to the www.pontiac.com site and click on CONTACT US section and e-mail them a complaint. You are not alone in this regard. Many, mant GTO owners having electrical problems with windows, dashboard components and the like. There has to be some common problem like poor insulation, poor quality wires, poor quality electronic parts, and who knows. Pontiac should take a deeper look into this issue. Iof you don't complain with your vin numbre on hand there's little that cxan be done. I already e-mailed Pontiac with my complaint. Everybody else with past or present problems please contact POntiac.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Each one of you do e-mail Pontiac on the issue. We at the forums have the advantage of sharing with each other our experiences. Most other GTO owners do not and would just go to the dealer as an isolated case. We should stand up and let Pontiac know what is happening. With your vin number go to www.pontiac.com, contact us section and e-mail your problem to them. There has to be some common denominator here like poor insulation or poor quality electronic components or just a bad design or configuration. Let them know!!!! I DID.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

1stGTO said:


> We just paid $30.000 for a new car, we should't hav eto "work through them." :shutme


Mercedes just went down the toilet with quality concerns and similar problems throughout the model line.

My partner has a new 7 series beemer and the thing chews tires (4 sets), won't hold an alignment (never hit a curb once - never wrecked)

it can always be worse, but i hear what you're sayin'


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

A seemingly innocuous and almost insignificant electrical malfunction without known cause that manifests itself on the windows, gauges and meters could be the tip of an iceberg. Electrical problems and some electronic ones, as well, are potential fire hazards. Can you imagine your wife driving your goat with the two babies on the rear child seats at 60 miles per hour when all of the sudden a short occurs where wires burn? In case of fire she won't be able to save your kids. When I was a teenager I installed my own cassette player provisionally. I went for a drive to enjoy my new sound system. Could not wait till I finished connections permanently. I had to listen to my new car stereo. Well some wires got loose and as I tried to put them together while driving; instead, I shorted the wires and all hell broke loose. In a matter of a fraction of a second the whole car was full of smoke and I could not see two inches from my nose. Had to pull to the side of the road blind and luckily enough I had a fire extinguisher on board by the drivers seat. I was lucky then but I can foresee the extreme fire hazzard potential here. Something is wrong with the electrical GTO system and it has the potential of being fatal.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

ok, adearmas, sent email to pon-pon. did'ya notice you have select "make" and GTO is not an option  

Anyway, would suggest NOT to mention this website by name.

I dunno, don't want to get them in trouble.

I just mentioned that I'm a member of a GTO enthusiast's internet forum, etc.. and several members reporting problemts, etc...

imo, they'll never admit to widespread problem, but in a few months there could be a recall.


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## wick (Nov 4, 2004)

A lot of stuff stems back to the ignition sw. You would be suprised how many things get there referance voltage from the ignition switch. Have you taken it to the dealer yet??? 

Adearmas have you had that many problems with your GTO?? I have only seen one pull across the drive with a problem. It smoked the rear diff, litterly. THe guy like it just started making a noise on the highway, the diff cover was white, my butt it just started making noise. I never got the if it breaks I am going to make sure they can not fix it. 

You can not complain to Pontiac, if you do not give the dealer a chance to work on it 1st GTO...


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## stucker (Sep 22, 2004)

I have had a few electrical mishaps myself. Once with the speedo, it pugged out at 200mph them started swinging erratically. Another time my tach froze. Twice the radio controls on the steering wheel acted up, any button I pressed on the right side turned the radio up. In every case stopping the engine and restarting it fixed the problem. It has to be a short in one of the wiring harnesses.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

Hello, Westell. If you look at the upper left hand corner of the Pontiac website there is a small heading (goes almost unnoticed really) that says "OWNER CENTER". Clicking on that link it will take you to a page where you can register as an owner and, yes, there is an option for Pontiac on a scroll down and then there is another scrolldown where you can select GTO. There's no way you can register without your VIN number. That will limit input to GTO owners and filter out all non GTO owners. There's no need to mention this or any other forum. Actually, I navigate through several GTO and LS1 forum websites daily and the electrical problem is of epidemic proportions.

It is a real concern to me. I don't take my kids for a GTO ride anymore. In case of fire I know I won't be able to extract both kids out of the car. Car fires spread real fast. As we are all aware, it is difficult to reach the rear seat. Hopefully I am wrong.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

I am going to pay a visit to the Australian LS1 site and inquire about electyrical problems there. Will let yopu know what I find.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

adearmas said:


> I am going to pay a visit to the Australian LS1 site and inquire about electyrical problems there. Will let yopu know what I find.


good idea, man. when i emailed pontiac i just went to bottom of screen at "contact us", didn't go through owner's site, but VIN was required and voiced our concern. i did receive a return email confirming they got it.

one thing i'll note further, when i did get the spike and alarm on the temp. gage, was right after i washed the car in the driveway :confused


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## Baron Samedi (Oct 22, 2004)

I doubt VERY much that there's ANY concern about fire. Since the cluster issue seems to temporarily resolve itself with an engine shut off/restart, the likely problem is a programming glitch in the Body Control Module. Like a PC, a shut off/restart "re-boots" the operating software in all the vehicle control units and starts from scratch.

It's a good thing Microsoft doesn't make cars. For some reason people are perfectly accepting of PCs that freeze and applications that crash, but give 'em a vehicle moving down the road and packed with glitchy control units and they freak out.


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## stucker (Sep 22, 2004)

Baron is right. If the power wires to the cluster were shorting then the cluster would be going completely dead and we would all be blowing fuses left in right. So it is either a programing fault in the BCU or possibly the wires that connect to the gauge's sensors are shorting. Either of these would cause the strange readings that we all seem to be observing.


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

Could it possibly be caused when GM converted it from right hand drive to left hand drive?


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## Tuxedo Mask (Sep 13, 2004)

Baron Samedi said:


> I doubt VERY much that there's ANY concern about fire. Since the cluster issue seems to temporarily resolve itself with an engine shut off/restart, the likely problem is a programming glitch in the Body Control Module. Like a PC, a shut off/restart "re-boots" the operating software in all the vehicle control units and starts from scratch.
> 
> It's a good thing Microsoft doesn't make cars. For some reason people are perfectly accepting of PCs that freeze and applications that crash, but give 'em a vehicle moving down the road and packed with glitchy control units and they freak out.


i can accept a p.c. freezing because computer nowadays cost about $700. We are talking about a $30,000 "freeze" for the GTO. That is what scares me.


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## Baron Samedi (Oct 22, 2004)

Tuxedo.

I see your point.

Not an excuse, but many vehicle manufacturers have problems similar to these. Whether it's a $30K car or a $100k car. Whether its an engine control unit or body control unit or whatever. The exact nature of the programming error and the number of units in service usually determines how frequently the problem shows up in a service shop and whether the manufacturer does anything about it.

Don't know about the GTO BCM, but often these types of problems can be corrected by "flashing" the offending module with new software. Usually downloaded from the GM Tech 2.


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## qonoximiento (Nov 10, 2004)

*I experienced the same temporary problem!*

My analog indicators went waco...I mean I thought my alternator and battery went bad!, Yet I noticed that my digital indicators were working fine. The problem went away after I stopped and shut/restarted the car. It happened right on I was on my cell phone.

I notified my Pontiac Dealer in NJ USA and scheduled an appointment while still experiencing the analog display craziness...it seemed as if they knew the problem before hand...since they told me that it was a 20 min fix.

I have not experienced the problem since. It did not affect the overall performance of the engine at all!


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## GTO TOO (Sep 10, 2004)

I too have had the analog issue. The digital functions still work while the analog go "goofy". I too would guess at a BCM issue that right now does not seem to have a solution. A re-set (power down ) and back on makes thing right so as others have said it is not a short is is software or the digital and engine would not continue to run normally.
The radio going silent is another issue altogether. THAT IS NORMAL. The system is designed to shut down to protect the amp. I have only had my radio cut-out twice and both times I had the volume way up. There is a service bulletin advising dealers not to replace the radio as it is functioning as designed. I have disabled the distortion through the programing mode. that seems to be why the radio cuts out at high volume.


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## Whiteshadow (Sep 28, 2004)

Sorry guys, I will for sure try to check with the dealership tomorrow on the electrical issue. 

I know that simply pulling over to the side of the road, and shutting the car off did NOTHING for my demo car.

But in the car I finally chose, I have had the radio spike up on me a few times. I rarily listen to the stereo at all in the car, but when I do I get the volume to jump up for an instant all the time. Pisses me off. But as mentioned before, this is one of the reasons that it is a BAD idea to buy a new model car... 

I am not gonna complain though, I'll just fix it. I like my car, it's hard as hell to beat, and it's something you don't see every day.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

*Here's what I got back from Pontiac*

Dear Mr. Westell,

Thank you for contacting the Pontiac Customer Assistance Center. I apologize for the electrical concerns you have experienced with your 2004 Pontiac GTO.

Since you have provided your telephone number and based on the nature of your concern, I will be following up this e-mail with a telephone call, tomorrow, Friday, November 12, 2004, in an attempt to provide a timely resolution. If I fail to reach you, please contact me at 866-952-4368 ext. 58743, Monday through Friday between the hours of 6:00 a.m. to 2:30 p.m., Eastern Time.

If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this message or call our Pontiac Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-762-2737. Customer Relationship Managers are available Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time. Your service request number is 1-277035036.

Again, thank you for contacting Pontiac.

Sincerely,


Ashley Petit
Customer Relationship Manager
Pontiac Customer Assistance Center

For more information regarding the maintenance and care of your vehicle, please visit https://www.mygmlink.com/main/US/en/gm/home?cmp=occallctr. This free online service offers vehicle and ownership-related information and tools tailored to your specific Pontiac.


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## Jon Baumgardner (Nov 10, 2004)

*Electrical Issues*

Let me know what you find out at the Dealer. I have my guages go "wild" and the volume spike up on the radio and the car start up fine only to immediately die. After a few re-starts, it runs fine.

I know there electrical issues somewhere I just know it won't happen when I take it in to the dealer.

Thanks,
Jon


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## dstiner (Nov 4, 2004)

Same here. My temp gauge spiked and the alarm sounded about 30 seconds after starting the car the second day I had it. It stopped after about 5 seconds and didn't happen again until yesterday.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2004)

Gee, Westel, I am glad you got an answer. I never got a reply except to say they recieved my message.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

adearmas said:


> Gee, Westel, I am glad you got an answer. I never got a reply except to say they recieved my message.


They called me today, like they wrote they would. We discussed all the issues in this thread and I mentioned there were over a dozen at this forum with same problems They girl was typing all the info I gave her as we spoke, as you could hear the keystrokes.

Would not speak of any known, widespread problem, and wants the car to go to dealer. Dealer in turn calls the Technical Assistance Center, which I guess is SOP. No big deal to them.

She'll call back next Thursday to see what happened at dealer.


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## jerhofer (Oct 16, 2004)

adearmas said:


> Hello, Westell. If you look at the upper left hand corner of the Pontiac website there is a small heading (goes almost unnoticed really) that says "OWNER CENTER". Clicking on that link it will take you to a page where you can register as an owner and, yes, there is an option for Pontiac on a scroll down and then there is another scrolldown where you can select GTO. There's no way you can register without your VIN number. That will limit input to GTO owners and filter out all non GTO owners. There's no need to mention this or any other forum. Actually, I navigate through several GTO and LS1 forum websites daily and the electrical problem is of epidemic proportions.
> 
> It is a real concern to me. I don't take my kids for a GTO ride anymore. In case of fire I know I won't be able to extract both kids out of the car. Car fires spread real fast. As we are all aware, it is difficult to reach the rear seat. Hopefully I am wrong.


Always better to be safe than sorry, but, from the sound of the issues here, I would bet on a poor ground problem. As some others have stated, if it were a short, fuses would be blowing. Many people who don't really understand electrical systems often refer to shorts as the problem. Shorts are actually relatively easy to find as it will result in a blown fuse and at least you then know which circuit to check. Faulty grounds are a little tougher to find, but are not normally safety issues. It is the shorting out of a unit that normally causes sparking issues that can cause fires.

The early Porsche 924's had grounding issues and the one I had at that time was affected. While the electrics were more basic then, the poor ground still caused inaccurate gauge readings. 

At this point, after roughly a thousand miles, I haven't had any of these issues on my GTO. As usual when you have these issues, those with problems are the ones making noise. It might be interesting to see how many GTO owners have not had any electrical issues to get a better understanding of the percentage of vehicles affected.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2004)

Pontiac will react officially according to the record. The record is their service job entries which get classified. Only statistically significant problems are addressed any further. For example, 50 GTOs come in with faulty throttle body which cracks at 2000 miles or 3 months average. That is significant statistical data. Say 10 of us had driver's window problem among 8000 cars in the US, but, only three get reported and the rest just takes care by itself, not statisically significant. 15 others had problems with the analog speedometer and only 8 reported it and the rest took care of itself. So on and so forth with the radio, with this and that. Not statistically significant. Yet, they all electrical problems which probably are not related. Then again, they could be. Say, for example, that the yellow wire and orange insulation from such and such batches are somehow defective, for whatever reason. Say they do not insulate adequately and tend to arc at mini little gaps here and there. Not enough now to cause a fire, just yet, but enough to affect voltage at high humidity acting as a conductor. We will learn something is wrong when a fire does occur and intelligent lawyers start asking questions.

It does not hurt to e-mail Pontiac and to let them know that you had the problem, even if a sevice job was not actually filed. It does not hurt to let them know that we, at the forums, consider that in the realm of possibilities we have already raised the issue of an electrical problem. If they get enough warnings they will do something, even if they never tell you they did (and that they better do). I tell you what will happen with Westel. He will get proper attention to his problem as he should. They will make certain he signs the job order specifically stating waht his problem is. The problem will be corrected, if any, and he will sign a paper when the job is finished. That is their evidence, whatever problem he had was taken care of and resolved. Clean bill of health for their liability. He will not be a statistic.

On the other hand, if they get enough e-mails raising a common concern then their legal department knows two things. First, Pontiac (GM) must do what any reasonable person would do. Second, those e-mails are evidence in a court of law in case of a civil suit. In a deposition a suing attorney may ask the following question to GM: "Your testimony says that you had no statistical data that constitutes evidence of a widespread problem. Has pontiac, GM, ever received any other forms of complaints pointing towards any electrical problem? Did any of those complaints ever warn you of fire hazzard concerns? If so, what reasonable steps did you take to look into the matter?" At that point Pontiac has to answer yes or no. If they answer yes they would be negligent if their reaction to the complaint(s) was not reasonable. As the car manufacturer they must act as a father would to his own child. If, on the other hand, they answer no (that they never eceived any such warnings nor complaints from a customer) and are proven otherwise they are fried meat in court.

Civil litiagation lawyers know that if their client looses credibility in court they are fried meat. If there is evidence out there linking them to an act of negligence or omission they will not advertise it and then again they will not deny it if asked the right question. Give you an example:

I am a dentist. You come to me with tootache. I just don't go ahead and do root canal without checking your medical history for things like high blood pressure. I check your BP even if HBP is not reported in your Md. Hx. You come to me with a toothache. I do not check your BP. Do not referr you to your MD if your BP is high. You subsequatly suffer any CVA related damages, I am liable for negligence and omission even if I performed the perfect root canal. 

If Pontiac gets a few more e-mails they will take a close look at the problem. Don't be surprised if you get an appointment to take a look at your door window, or your speedometer problem, and just so happens that the GM Service representative is there.

There is a thin line between what is reasonalbe and what is an overreaction.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2004)

Keep me posted.


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## Vader953 (Nov 21, 2004)

Hi guys, I read this a few days ago, and thought that these problems suck for you guys. Man I'm thankful for this forum and glad I read this thread, 'cause the temp thing happened to me today too. 

Thanks!!!!1

Taylor


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## boschxpert (Nov 24, 2004)

i had that same problem with the speedo going crazy too, when i was converting my sound system i used one of the interior blub sockets for a power source, well i touched it to ground and it short the system, it blew the fuse and then i had the problems with the speedo, i disconnected the battery and replaced the fuse and everything works well again, if anyone has continued problems you must have a short somewhere, check your fuses, an or take to the dealer, just make sure if you added anything electrical to you car remove it before you take to the dealer, they could void your warranty............


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## boschxpert (Nov 24, 2004)

adearmas said:


> A seemingly innocuous and almost insignificant electrical malfunction without known cause that manifests itself on the windows, gauges and meters could be the tip of an iceberg. Electrical problems and some electronic ones, as well, are potential fire hazards. Can you imagine your wife driving your goat with the two babies on the rear child seats at 60 miles per hour when all of the sudden a short occurs where wires burn? In case of fire she won't be able to save your kids. When I was a teenager I installed my own cassette player provisionally. I went for a drive to enjoy my new sound system. Could not wait till I finished connections permanently. I had to listen to my new car stereo. Well some wires got loose and as I tried to put them together while driving; instead, I shorted the wires and all hell broke loose. In a matter of a fraction of a second the whole car was full of smoke and I could not see two inches from my nose. Had to pull to the side of the road blind and luckily enough I had a fire extinguisher on board by the drivers seat. I was lucky then but I can foresee the extreme fire hazzard potential here. Something is wrong with the electrical GTO system and it has the potential of being fatal.


i seriously doubt you gto's elect system is fatal, you have a series of fuses and fusible links all over the car, the only time you might have trouble with a short and a fire is whe you mess with the electrical system like you did and dont really know what your doing, sometimes you can be more dangerous than the car.............


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## boschxpert (Nov 24, 2004)

comon now guys i think we are getting a little too technical here, i fix electrical problems everyday on vehicals, everyone allways blames the computers, but we failed to remember that these modules recieve up to 100 different inputs and rely and assume these inputs to be valid information one false reading to the computer and everything gets screwed up and the self diagnostics don't always pick it up to set a code, only will it set a code and store it in the computer if its a hard falt thats a obvious screwup , my guess on the speed problem a voltage spike in the vehical speed senser, the VSS is a generator that makes a voltage, when they malfunction, they comonly spike voltage, which you actually can see with the naked eye through your speedo needle, there is a circut breaker in the system so prevent damage to the system, thats why when you turn off and restart it goes back to normal


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## Dan Sneddon (Nov 28, 2004)

*Update: Instrument Cluster electrical problems*

Just got back from the Dealer. Had them check out the system, and they called GM. My car was doing the same thing with the speedometer going to 200 and then being sporadic. I shut the car off and restarted it (doing a reboot) a couple of times and it went away. 

I did not have any shorts or loose wires. GM is now sying it is a "programming error" which will be fixed with an upcoming update that your dealer will have to download onto your car's computer.

We deal with the same type things in the airlines. New airplanes all run by computers sometimes need a hard reboot. If you think spending 30,000 is bad, how about 30 Million, and still having programming issues. 

Anyway, I also had them run the program to reduce the brightness of the MPH indicator, and it is much better. The program information to do it can be found on the LS1GTO sight. I just print it out and took it in.

Dan


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## Dan Sneddon (Nov 28, 2004)

*Just posted about this in the Technical Discussion Section*

Just got back from the dealer. GM has a fix coming out. It is "apparently" a programming issue.

Dan


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## catchmeifucan (Sep 12, 2004)

Electrical problems - unfortunately, been a problem with most of my GMs.


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## twolf (Nov 24, 2004)

Just my .02...

I haven't had any of these problems yet, but I haven't even turned 1,000 miles in my car. Having a great deal of electrical background I offer this opinion for discussion.

The power in the GTO is not clean. I can here static in the car stereo speakers even when the radio is turned OFF. The factory amp is probably low quality and doesn't filter the noise it receives... so it is amplifying the dirty power it gets to an audable level. Dirty power is all you need for solid state devices like ECM's or digital gauges to act flakey. Combine that with a bad ground or an isolated ground loop and you get even more crazyness. 

It will be a few weeks before I can get in to it further, but I am willing to bet there is no filtering unit between the fuse block and the ECM/gauges etc. There should be. They are cheap and save tons of headaches...

Just my thoughts on the matter,... comments?


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## bnvus (Nov 19, 2004)

twolf said:


> Just my .02...
> 
> I haven't had any of these problems yet, but I haven't even turned 1,000 miles in my car. Having a great deal of electrical background I offer this opinion for discussion.
> 
> ...


Yeah...can you pass that over here??

Automotive electronics are built to withstand extreme environments on a day to day basis. Things like temperature, vibration, and back yard mechanics wreak havoc on your $30K car and are not normally experienced on say PC's or most other electronic gadgets. Filter? No. Short? Not likely. Ground? Absolutely. Let us not forget rule # 1. Electricity takes the path of least resistance. If it can not ground as it should, IT CAN ground through a device causing a DIGITAL device to give off false readings.


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## bnvus (Nov 19, 2004)

catchmeifucan said:


> Electrical problems - unfortunately, been a problem with most of my GMs.


...and most of my Fords...Chryslers...damn come to think of it...every vehicle I ever owned!


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## twolf (Nov 24, 2004)

bnvus, I agree car electronics "should be" built to withstand all that stuff. The point I was making is I don't think that have built it to withstand daily mishaps. the absence of DC noise supression is a part of what makes car electronics fail and I was simply guessing that the industry solutions applied to this little gremlin were skimped on a bit. I haven't looked at the car yet, but if these issues are revolving around a ground to the firewall... well.. I can't imagine a better place to ground nor a more solid place to plant one.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

well, it finally happened to me.

speedo started peggin and freakin like about 100 times until i could get off the freeway, and restart

just a coincidence that i got this 15amp fuse poppin on turn signal/back up light (see thread below V ) :confused 

so, 1 incident temp gage spike w/ alarm + 1 incident speedo freako


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## SFLGOAT (Oct 7, 2004)

stucker said:


> I have had a few electrical mishaps myself. Once with the speedo, it pugged out at 200mph them started swinging erratically. Another time my tach froze. Twice the radio controls on the steering wheel acted up, any button I pressed on the right side turned the radio up. In every case stopping the engine and restarting it fixed the problem. It has to be a short in one of the wiring harnesses.



I have having the same radio control problem occasionaly, along with my passenger side door not opening when going into park. I will be going in for service shortly I'll post the outcome. Hopfully, I do not get the old "could not duplicate" bull :shutme


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Had the GTO in the shop for turn signal / back up fuse problem, see thread V
and told them about the temp gage spiking, speedo freakin'

printed a copy of this thread, told them to locate program updates.

they said there is no TSB and no updates available.

and since they "could not reproduce" .........

need I write more


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## tommy (Dec 15, 2004)

*Instrument sweep*

Just got back from my local dealer, GM says Instrument sweep is a software 
problem, and the fix will be available Jan. 15, 2005. Has anyone had problems 
starting out from a dead stop, and the car momentarily hesitates (not engine).

Tommy


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

tommy said:


> Just got back from my local dealer, GM says Instrument sweep is a software
> problem, and the fix will be available Jan. 15, 2005. Has anyone had problems
> starting out from a dead stop, and the car momentarily hesitates (not engine).
> 
> Tommy


It's too coincidental to me that after my reverse switch shorted that that is first time I get the speedo-freakin', peggin' thing. Like within hours of each other.

Your car stopping ? Assume you got A4 trans ?

Mine = M6, so no problems. you drop the clutch and things happen immediately.  street eatin', rubba burnin', tire smokin' LS1 action :cheers


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## lambertgoat (Oct 24, 2004)

Sweetride01 said:


> Do you think that the problems will be fixed for '05???
> Never heard of such problems in a new car before, I wouldn't buy one if it had that type of problems.


as much as i hate to say it, but i've found that if a person sticks to a basic rule of thumb, never buy the first year's model, unfortunately for us, we just couldn't pass up the chance at a brand new GTO, the glitches usually get worked out by the next year's model


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## Ron Sharpe (Dec 17, 2004)

*Problems*



lambertgoat said:


> as much as i hate to say it, but i've found that if a person sticks to a basic rule of thumb, never buy the first year's model, unfortunately for us, we just couldn't pass up the chance at a brand new GTO, the glitches usually get worked out by the next year's model


Lately here, I have experience the same problems with my GTO. I called Pontiac not to long ago and the person I spoke too, told me they haven't heard of any of these problems that I reported. After the discussion I had with them, I wonder if they were telling me the truth about not hearing about these problems. The driver window sometimes will not go up all the way, without having to force it up. Couple of times when I started the car, it would start up and then shutoff on it’s own. When I restarted after it shutoff, the car started right up both times. When opening the door, the alarm went off, even though the car was already unlock before hand. These are only the problems that I have encountered. What I have read from the discussions here, it seems like it’s a electrical problem. I’m planning on my Christmas break to take the GTO to the dealership and have them look into the problem. I’m hoping, that they find out what’s wrong and are able to fix it. Besides the problems that I have dealt with, I think it's a great car.


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## blankman (Dec 23, 2004)

*more of the same*

I have had my GTO since Jan 04 and I saw the speedo problem the very first day I had it. It happened when I inserted the key and turned it all the way thru without pausing at the run position. The speedo needle swung continuously hitting the stops until I shut it down. I thought it was something I did. Put the car in the garage for three months and then didn't see the problem again until mid-summer. Also see the gas gauge not giving proper indications. Mine has been to the dealer numerous times for lots of different (but minor) problems. They couldn't reproduce and they blew me off. Going to be a few more months til it leaves the garage (Ohio) but it's going to need an oil change anyway.


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

Didn't I remember someone saying that Pontiac had admitted there was a software problem and there would be a TSB at the dealerships in mid January?


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## tommy (Dec 15, 2004)

*Jan 15*

I was told by GM, that software fix will be out Jan 15


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## Stayingeast (Aug 10, 2004)

1stGTO said:


> I have had several electical issues. pull up to a stop lite and the mph goes to 200mph, the classic fuel gauge misreading, the latewst and scared the be-jesues out of me, last night just listen to the exhaust with a bud, then all of a sudden the Hot / Cold guage went all the way up and I got the beeping noise showing a temp guage reading hot on the dash.
> 
> A restart of the car fixed all issues, however after thinging about this I am going to up the priority to take the car in the Dealership. ANYONE else have simlair, what the fix???? :shutme


I had the exact thing happen on my GTO with the beeping sound and the temp guage showing hot. I have also had the prob with the speedo bouncing back and forth to 200 mph. Fortunately, this has only happened once each. I called my dealer and I guess I got a typical response. They were willing to help but basically told me if its not happening all the time they have no way of diagnosing it. I asked him if they had gotten any other service calls with GTO electrical probs he told me there were so few GTO's they hadn't heard of the prob before.


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## texgal (Dec 24, 2004)

Had the same problem with the instrument cluster and the temp. gauge. Dealer hooked a flight recorder to it for two weeks. Wouldn't you know it didn't have any problems the whole time. Finally was told by GM that it needed some new program or something downloaded into the computer. Haven't had it done because I haven't had any more problems and no time to leave it at the service dept. Who knows?


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## 5woodluther (Jan 3, 2005)

I just picked up a new 2004 GTO on 12/31/04. But by 01/01/05 I also have experienced the temp gauge issue. Scared the crap out of me, but will be going back to the dealer anyway since my Passenger door catches on the pillar cover when openning at times.


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## 84racebird (Jan 4, 2005)

I haven't had any problems with the gages, but have had the radio volume go up twice. The first time it happened it only lasted a couple seconds. It caught my attention, but I wasn't sure what had happened. The second time I was driving slowly through a parking lot. The volume increased considerably and stayed that way for about 5 to 7 seconds. Then it went back down to the previous volume. I didn't notice any changes on the display. I haven't reported it to the dealer yet, but I will.


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## Last (Jul 27, 2004)

84racebird said:


> I haven't had any problems with the gages, but have had the radio volume go up twice. The first time it happened it only lasted a couple seconds. It caught my attention, but I wasn't sure what had happened. The second time I was driving slowly through a parking lot. The volume increased considerably and stayed that way for about 5 to 7 seconds. Then it went back down to the previous volume. I didn't notice any changes on the display. I haven't reported it to the dealer yet, but I will.


Same damn exact thing has happened to me. No problem with the guages....yet, but the radio volume has gone way up for no reason.

It's on my list.

Last :seeya:


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## Volley (Dec 17, 2004)

Daughter reports she had the Goat up to 200 mph on the way home from school this afternoon and it felt like she was only going 40. I guess the common gauge gremlin has struck with 550 miles on it. Restart fixed it for now. She did confirm that she did not let the display check complete before backing out of the parking space so that may triggered it. Anyway, i think i won't worry about it until someone reports the ECM flash is available and the dealers have a clue.


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## dctex99 (Dec 24, 2004)

I purchased mine on 1-6=05,,on the way to washing and filling with gas, the salesman turned on the radio,,,DEAD,,,,tried recoding,,NOTHING, tried radio from another car,,NOTHING,,,ordered radio/ will be two weeks. The lights don't work that light the heater controls,,,the rear window defogger is also dead,,,,Nice sounding engine tho,,,these cars must be only sold to patient people!!


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

dctex99 said:


> I purchased mine on 1-6=05,,on the way to washing and filling with gas, the salesman turned on the radio,,,DEAD,,,,tried recoding,,NOTHING, tried radio from another car,,NOTHING,,,ordered radio/ will be two weeks. The lights don't work that light the heater controls,,,the rear window defogger is also dead,,,,Nice sounding engine tho,,,these cars must be only sold to patient people!!


I wouldn't have accepted the vehicle. Take it back and demand a loner until ALL the problems are corrected.


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## Red-Dragon (Jan 3, 2005)

*The temp gauge went crazy*

On the 18th day it happened. I was on the road (40 mph or so) for less than 5 min. early in the morning, then the alarm sounded. Anaolg temp. gauge went all the way to the max. and the graphic showed major engine malfunction. I slowed the car right away to about 10 mph. Without a full stop, the whole thing went away by itself and it did not scare me again for the rest of the day. I'm taking it back to the shop tomorrow.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Got a phone call from Pontiac. Survey person. Anyway, I gave them answers to the questions and when I reported these anomoles, she acknowledged of same reports by other GTO owners, but other than that she didin't know of any TSB or FLASH fix, or what either of those are  

Next time it happens and the dealer's open, I'm driving to the dealer and let them see it happen, then I'll be curious to their line of BS


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## GNX231 (Dec 12, 2004)

anything newwith this prob.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*temp gauge*

i had the gauge peg and the music played,but i think it was because the wifes land rover had a coolant leak that i fixed and did not drive the gto sunday
i dont think aussies and brits get along in my drive way


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Well, the speedo / tach pegging back and forth happened again. 

This time, and reason for the post, is when I turned the car off, tach went back down to zero, but speedo stuck at 80, so restarted, and stuck at 60, restarted, stuck at 40, restart, stuck at 20, finally, went back down and has resumed normal operation.

had to happen at 8:00 at night, or I would've headed straight to dealer.


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## dctex99 (Dec 24, 2004)

TexasRealtor said:


> I wouldn't have accepted the vehicle. Take it back and demand a loner until ALL the problems are corrected.


Sad FOLLOWUP,,,I guess about 700 bad radio/cd's around,,so 4-6 week back order,,,,will take to dealer to fix all the other problems,,,,
s


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## jfulcher (Jan 1, 2005)

Supposedly it's just a problem with the insturment cluster, there is a new program they can upload for certain VIN #s and it requires replacment for others.. There is a good post on ls1gto about it.


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## Old Coot (Oct 10, 2004)

I just got this info from my dealer's service manager.

Speedometer Erratic movement, Fuel Gauge does not go to to full after filling, engine coolant temperature gauge reads hot and coolant temperature light illuminates(REPROGRAM IPC ) 
#5-08-49-003- JAN 20, 2005
2004 GTO
Built prior to VIN BREAKPOINT 4L29601

These conditions may be intermittent.

Technicians are to reprogram the IPC with an updated software calibration. This new service calibration was released with TIS satellite data update version 1.0 available January 10, 2005. As always, make sure your Tech2 is updated with the lates software version.

Also have you looked at the NADA VALUE OF A USED 2004? Not to bad.


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## yipching (Oct 5, 2004)

dstiner said:


> Same here. My temp gauge spiked and the alarm sounded about 30 seconds after starting the car the second day I had it. It stopped after about 5 seconds and didn't happen again until yesterday.


Mine has a nifty set of problems. Mainly, both radiator fans will blow all day long - I have to pop both fuses to prevent the battery from draining. 

Also, blinking either left or right causes the fuse to pop. It's about 10 degrees here in New York, but sunny so I figured I'd drive her for a few days... Guess the Aussie build wasn't intended to handle such cold? 

Dealership trip tomorrow AM... 
:willy:


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

yipching said:


> Also, blinking either left or right causes the fuse to pop. It's about 10 degrees here in New York, but sunny so I figured I'd drive her for a few days... Guess the Aussie build wasn't intended to handle such cold?
> 
> :willy:


This may not be your problem, but the turn signal fuse is also back up light, and there's a switch at the shifter that shorted out that caused my problem and fuse to blow when turn operated or put in reverse.

the fans...... that's a new one.


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## mGTO04 (Jan 2, 2005)

fans, never thought of that. That may explain my recent dead battery. I have not driven it much due to lots of snow but it should be holding a charge...


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

Any word if these electrical gremlins have been corrected in the '05?


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## GTO4ART (Jan 7, 2005)

*My Gauges went crazy...but it's fixed now...*

I had a similar problem with my speedo, tach, fuel and temp gauges giving false reading and full sweeps of the speedo and tach on my 2004 GTO. I took my car to the dealer who, in turn, said it was a loose conection at the back of the instrument cluster. Needless to say, I didn't believe them, but I let them do the work anyways. A week later I had the same problem. This time they replaced the complete cluster and since then I have not encountered the problem. My suggestion is that you have the dealer replace your cluster if you are still encountering the same problem.
Feel free to email me if you have any questions.


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## squrtdog50 (Jan 22, 2005)

*electrical problems*

I too have had this problem with in the first minutes of start up. It happened only one time. I guess it's time to take it back for service again! Don't get me wrong I love this car, but I've had problems w/ the driver's seat and the deck lid. Every so often the seat feels like its missing a tooth in the gear and the deck lid wouldn't latch. they replaced the latch and actuator in the trunk. I had the car back for one week and noticed I have to pull on the lid to open it. Still not a reason for trade in.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Old Coot said:


> I just got this info from my dealer's service manager.
> 
> Speedometer Erratic movement, Fuel Gauge does not go to to full after filling, engine coolant temperature gauge reads hot and coolant temperature light illuminates(REPROGRAM IPC )
> #5-08-49-003- JAN 20, 2005
> ...


Did your "MPH" indicator dim a little after this update ?


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## Glenn (Feb 25, 2005)

*GTO Service Bulletin for dancing gauges*

For those with dancing IP gauges, ask you dealer to look into this TSB:

#05-08-49-003 Speedometer Erratic Movement, Fuel Gauge Does Not Go to Full After Filling, Engine Coolant Temperature Gauge Reads Hot and Coolant Temperature Light Illuminates (Reprogram IPC) - (Jan 20, 2005)


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## Glenn (Feb 25, 2005)

*TSB for "MPH" label too bright.*



> Did your "MPH" indicator dim a little after this update ?


Westell, 
This TSB was probably also applied when they fixed your dancing gauges problem programming:
#04-08-49-023 Speedometer MPH Indicator Too Bright (Reduce MPH Indicator Brightness Using Tech 2) - (Sep 10, 2004)


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## 1fast05GTO (Feb 27, 2005)

*electrical problem*

I havent had any problems with my spedo on my 05, i did however have a problem with the radio. I was driving one night and all the button lights shut off. I hit a bump, and they went back on. I love the car more than anything, but thats a little stupid for a brand new 30+ thousand dollar car. Mine is going back to the dealer for that, the caliper was scratched from the factory, and they told me they have to evaluate it first. What a crock of Sh*t. Also, the hood scoop wasnt finished being painted, and the wont paint it for me....or swamp me another one. It seems to me they just dont wanna help at all. Shes my baby and i guess we will have to deal with it.


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## Glenn (Feb 25, 2005)

1fast05GTO said:


> I havent had any problems with my spedo on my 05, i did however have a problem with the radio. I was driving one night and all the button lights shut off. I hit a bump, and they went back on. I love the car more than anything, but thats a little stupid for a brand new 30+ thousand dollar car. Mine is going back to the dealer for that, the caliper was scratched from the factory, and they told me they have to evaluate it first. What a crock of Sh*t. Also, the hood scoop wasnt finished being painted, and the wont paint it for me....or swamp me another one. It seems to me they just dont wanna help at all. Shes my baby and i guess we will have to deal with it.


You're right it is a crock of s**t. You have a legitimate claim on the caliper and hood scoop paint. I would call the Pontiac Customer Assistance Center number (800-762-2737) and state your case to Pontiac. Many dealers don't seem to care about customer satisfaction unless it benefits their profit; not GM's future sales. Pontiac should be more helpful


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## Capo (Mar 12, 2005)

I test drove a 05 the other day, interesting experience. Neither the gas gauge nor the stereo worked! The gas gauge needle was sitting on empty, and the digital readout continued to blink/flash warnings of low fuel. This after the dealer dropped a few bucks in the tank. The stereo sounded like the rear deck speakers were blown… horrible popping and cracking sound.


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## catchmeifucan (Sep 12, 2004)

Ring up a dead cluster for me.

Speedometer was doing the 200 MPH swing back and forth a couple of times. Thought it may just be a simple program fix. Took it to the dealer and the cluster died on them. 

Been a week and parts on backorder. This is real dissapointing as the car hasn't had any problems until this. Now, there are no parts and no ETA. According to my dealer, there is only one shop in the US that makes the cluster and/or parts.
This sounds like this could be a while. If it goes more than a couple of weeks, there will be a personal call to GM. 

Granted, they have given me a rental car. First a full size truck. Couldn't afford to put gas in that guzzler and gave it back for a Grand Prix. But the rental sure isn't like driving a GTO and that is what I pay that payment for each month.


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## SFLGOAT (Oct 7, 2004)

Took my goat in for the same thing last Monday and a few other minor issues. I know it will be a while, but is is disappointing to hear your story. I am really starting to miss my goat. (The Grand Am rental is just no cutting it). I will be out of town from the 17-21. I will be getting real edgy if it is not back by the time I get back. Please post any info you receive and I will as well. :cheers


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## jdc916 (Feb 23, 2005)

Ok ! I've read all the pages of this post (whew) and by the looks of it, all the electrical gremlins appear to be with the 04, based on what everyone has listed in the "My GTO" section. I think maybe there was one 05. Is it a safe bet that the problem has been fixed for the 05's ?


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## 1HTVIXEN (Mar 17, 2005)

Here is my problem, the battery in my 2004 GTO, has died several times in one week.
1st time, I thought I left something on, nope. I had it towed to the GM Dealership, where I work. They replaced the battery on Monday. Friday morning when I went to leave for work, as I unlocked the car the horn beeped repeatedly. When I went to start my GTO, its was dead and I mean dead. So I had it towed back to my dealership, where it was tested and had less than 6 volts. I got it back on Friday afternoon and then again on Sunday, the battery was dead again.
The techs and myself are all confused since there is a draw somewhere, but where is the question. The car is locked, everything off and the battery dies....
I have also had problems with the cluster, but my tech explained to me that
there is a service bulliten to fix that problem.
My tech has told me that my car is an ideal canidate for a buy back or lemon, since they have tried to fix the problem three times.
Has anyone has a similar problem?


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## mGTO04 (Jan 2, 2005)

I am not sure I may have already responded on this, but obviously this is a major issue with the batt that they come standardly equipped with. I am from Iowa, and mine sits for good lengths of time due to snow...however the battery has died several times and finally they ran diagnostics on it and need to replace it. The interesting thing about that is the battery is on back order until July. They put a temp in, but it is a huge problem or why would they be out of stock? I had the same speedo issue on one occasion after refueling. Turning the car off, and restarting solved the problem. My dad owns the dealership, so I would say I am getting the straight line on the battery issue...but who knows. Otherwise, great car and I just ordered the 05 replace hood to add on.
m


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## bbroach (Mar 21, 2005)

*First Post - This looks familiar....*



catchmeifucan said:


> Ring up a dead cluster for me.
> 
> Speedometer was doing the 200 MPH swing back and forth a couple of times. Thought it may just be a simple program fix. Took it to the dealer and the cluster died on them.


Hello, All;

I just found this forum; I am in the delicate process of negotiating purchase of a new 2005 with the wife, and am doing a lot of online research. This thread caught my eye, and I read it from beginning to end. Maybe I have something useful to add to it.

Years ago, when I was working as a dealership Porsche tech in northern California, a customer brought in a 928 that had received three replacement instrument cluster circuit boards. Each of the flexible boards had burned traces, and the persistent symtoms were intermittent wild fluctuations and full scale movement of the analog instrumentation - fuel, temp, oil pressure - which would often subside when the car was turned off & restarted. Clearly this was not a problem with the circuit boards, and I knew that the burned traces were the clue to the root cause. I suspected that a ground problem was causing the alternator current to return through the cluster via the engine's instrument senders, so I began to check for voltage drops in the body ground path while the engine was running & the headlights were on. Sure enough, there was a potential difference of several volts between the body and the engine, so I raised the car up on the lift & attempted to remove the nut for the engine ground strap - the nut & stud came off in my hand. An insert and new stud were all that were required to restore proper electrical function to that Porsche, which had less than 10K miles on the odometer. I would suggest measuring for voltage drops in the chassis ground path of the affected cars. Begin at the alternator, engine running, with a load Could be something as simple as paint on the contact area under a ground strap.


regards, billb....


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## SledgeHammer (Sep 24, 2004)

My GTO just hit the motherload of electrical issues.  THe whole instrument cluster goes dead, radio quits working, daytime driving lights shut off, display reads check alternator, abs malfunction, etc. It seems that if I let it idle it will go back to normal operation but if it gets above 1000 rpm all heck breaks loose.

Anyone know where that bad ground for the computor is? All Data doesn't show it.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

One of my customers in OH just had this problem!! He took it to his dealer and they replaced the battery and the alternator and the problem went away!! Hope this helps... BTW the alternator takes a while to get so get to your dealer asap!! :cheers


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## SledgeHammer (Sep 24, 2004)

GTODEALER said:


> One of my customers in OH just had this problem!! He took it to his dealer and they replaced the battery and the alternator and the problem went away!! Hope this helps... BTW the alternator takes a while to get so get to your dealer asap!! :cheers


I appreciate the info. Now that you mentioned the battery, I let my wife drive my car while her's was in for maintenance. The battery went dead overnight on her, I figured she left something on. I charged the battery and then these problems started happening.

Bummer, I am glad it is a second car for me.


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## repruet (Apr 29, 2005)

I bought an 04 GTO Dec 1,2004. It spent 41 days in the shop with about 10 different problems between Dec 1 and March 31. My car was in the shop the whole month of March because of the Instrument cluster problem. I had a rental car the whole time because the speedo and temp gauge was always acting up. Took 31 days to get a replacement cluster and the replacement that came in was defective also, it couldn't be programmed. Had to wait 2 more days on another cluster. The radio had problems, the heater had problems- no heat, the lights had problems- they would'nt turn off. I have bought 4 new Pontaics starting in 97 and I had more problems with this car in 3 monthes than I did with all my other ones combined. I think Pontiac needs to move production of this car to USA. I was at the dealers a couple of weeks ago and one came in off the truck making a racket in the front end. The sway bar bushing had never been installed. There is no excuse for a limited production car like the GTO having this poor of quality control. Wake up GM and get this car produced in the USA. If things do break maybe we won't have to wait on parts so long. I also had a weird problem. The car would bog down at WOT. Turns out the right front tire was 6 lbs lower in air pressure than the other tires making it appear to the computer that the rear tires were spinning cause the speed sensor was reading slower on that front tire than the rears. If you turned off the traction control the car ran great.


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## 05impulsegoat (Jun 11, 2005)

*Electrical problems*

I purchased a 2005 GTO on May 2, 2005. On May 25, I drove the car from upstate NY to GA. While traveling on the interstate approximately 80 mph in the state of NC, the check engine light came on and the car began to decelerate slowly. While decelerating automatically, the electronic display indicated “Performance Reduced” “SAFE mode”(Microsoft acting bling bling!). While the famous sentence “WTF” flowed from my mouth, I safely drove to the side of the interstate and stopped the vehicle (with the engine still on) and called the roadside assistance #. They provided a local dealership # in Charlotte, NC. I called the dealership, explained the problem and was asked if I had recently purchased gas. My reply was "about 30 minutes ago." I was instructed to shut the car off, and check the gas cap. The gas cap was on securely, however, I removed and reinstalled the gas cap. I then started the engine, the check engine light remained on, however, the car appeared to be operating correctly...I had control of acceleration again. I continued my trip to GA - no problem...other than the check engine light remained on for a few hours, and then went off. On the way back from GA to NY, the exact same problem occurred twice - once in SC and once in PA. Shutting the engine off and restarting corrected the problem in all three instances. The problem never occurred during in-city driving, only while traveling long distances. Upon MY return to upstate NY on 1 June, I had the car at the dealership on June and as of the date of this posting (11 June), the car is still at the dealership. I was informed the car need an Electronic Acceleration Module. Then I was told the part had to be ordered from Australia, which I expected as much. The bummer is, I kept getting told the part will be in the following week, its been two weeks. I was told on 10 June the part had been shipped from Australia. I also went to the Pontiac website (Mygmlink) and reported the problem. GM Customer Service rep has been in contact with the dealership following up on their progress in diagnosing the problem and obtaining the part as well as calling me a couple times a week keeping me up to date - probably monitoring my level of disappointment. Both the local dealership and GM Customer service are addressing the problem. GM customer service wants me to notify them once the car is repaired to let them know if everything performs as expected. I'm scheduled to put the car on a road trip the week of June 18, hopefully the part will be in and car repaired by that time, however, I'm doubtful. By the way, one other problem occurred that I just brushed off because I thought I turned the radio on via the steering wheel radio controls. However, the radio was turning on by itself...it did that at least twice during the trip. Other than stated problems, I'm very, very, satisfied...however, I've started a NY State Lemon Law file just in case!
16 June: Picked up the car from the dealer. Part replaced- gas pedal assembly. Need to get on the road to take it on a long ride - stay tuned!


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I have read several threads where parts have taken forever to come in from Holden. I am not a mechanic, or parts supplier but has GM/Holden ever heard of......Federal Express (FedEX)? UPS? DHL worldwide? I mean damn! I needed to get a computer disk to South Africa and FedEx was more than happy to overnight it for me.


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## jdc916 (Feb 23, 2005)

I've got an 04 dodge ram 1500 that i have had nothing but problems with. after unsuccessfully trying to sell it to get my hands on an 05 GTO, and keeping up with all the issues the 04's and 05 GTO are having do i really want to deal with the hassles ?? no !!!! 

looks like i may have to just trade the truck in on a new denali or silverado.
havent really seen or heard about too many issues on those and you cant beat the incentives they are offering !

my new GTO may never come but then again if I'm going to spend 30 k on a new goat, I might as well go find a 67 !


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## Donsm (Aug 1, 2009)

*0-120 on the driveway*

I am sure there is a thread somewhere for this. I have read hundreds of accounts of electrical and electronic problems. I have not seen one exactly like mne so if anyone can answer this one I would appreciate it.

At random times I shift my 05 automatic GTO to drive and the speedometer jumps to 100 or 120 or some other speed. It has done this at random since new but now when it does the car jumps as well. If not for my foot on the brake not sure what would happen. It now is still under extended warranty but this looks to be a recall item.

Has anyone seen a recall for similar problems? 

Thanks
Don


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

There has not been any recalls on any late model GTOs. Service bulletins yes. Best bet is to get it in to service. Maybe the TC is kicking off too causing it to buck?


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## Donsm (Aug 1, 2009)

*At the dealer*

Thanks,
I am at the dealer with the speedometer today along with a clunking sound in the left front. I hope they can find something with the codes or with tests. Not a lot of fun when you pull into the garage, push it to park, and the car tries to go through the back wall.

I will post the results.

Don


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

The speedo jumping is a fairly common issue. There is a wire bundle in the dash that isn't secure, it rubs over time and causes it. I'm sure if you seach you can find more specifics about it as I know I have read about it many times. I was search guages went wacko or something like that.

As far as the clunking in the suspension, our cars are prown to suspension issues. Maining bushing and strut mounts collapsing. Def go aftermarket on this. Pedders is a good company to look it, although very pricy. Search strut rub and you will find gold!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

My dealer has been replacing front end OEM parts with peddars parts. GM has authorized this. This also includes G8 front end parts as well.

I wish I had front end issues so I could get a GMPP upgrade. I guess I am one of the fortunate ones, at 35+K miles NO signs of strut problems.


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