# Bronze pilot bearing



## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Anyone know where and possible part # of bronze non magnetic pilot bearing. Summit has them but the shipping is more than the part.
Rich the guru tranny man in Sacto reccomended it.


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## GtoFM (Mar 23, 2018)

Check Ames, $10 shipping on $50 order.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Yea I did was surprised they are $5. I do have to make an order with them but I thought maybe Napa or someone has them seems like half of what I order from Ames I send back


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I have a new one.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

...it's with a lot of parts I'm trying to sell on craigslist under Pontiac parts in the 60172 zip code.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

NAPA should have them, but take your magnet as some are Chinese cast iron, plated with bronze.

Larry


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> I have a new one.
> View attachment 146607


That doesn't look like a Pontiac bushing. My guess is it came with the clutch kit? Same one came with the McLeod clutch I put in mine.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Droach6498 said:


> Anyone know where and possible part # of bronze non magnetic pilot bearing. Summit has them but the shipping is more than the part.
> Rich the guru tranny man in Sacto reccomended it.


If the internet is correct, here are the dimensions. You can verify your crank to make sure it will fit.

Specs :
1.3825" Outside Diameter
0.591" Inside Diameter
0.3565" Depth

Appears to be used for BOP. Dorman has a part number:
*Clutch Pilot Bushing Dorman 690-023*


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

It does look different, can't remember if it came with the McLeod clutch or the PRW flywheel, I'll check it out Monday...thanks for the heads up.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

No worries. I just installed one of these a few weeks ago. Left it pretty fresh in my mind. The one in Jim's picture looks correct.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I have a new one.
> View attachment 146607
> 
> wow looks alot bigger than I thought it would. Is that for a Muncie 4 speed ? I believe mines a late 68/69. But if you want to get fid of it I have some thigs I can trade. Brand new motor mount, new tranny mount. They're so heavy probably costs $15 to ship. I have the bearing pilot bush. But I was told to get the bronze non magnetic.
> I finally finished my splash guards today, went and got metal string and got 1/8" rubber. Should have got 1/16" more pliable but it worked. Was a great idea making those staples. Way way easier.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

hard to believe they're $33 for a donut piece of metal


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> If the internet is correct, here are the dimensions. You can verify your crank to make sure it will fit.
> 
> Specs :
> 1.3825" Outside Diameter
> ...


Looks like Ram BU75 fits


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Droach6498 said:


> Looks like Ram BU75 fits


Well after quite the search I found it on Amazon with free shipping for $8, but they are temp out of stock so when they get more I will get one, hopefully. I've had this done before with Amazon
( horn button) after several months they told me they werent getting anymore. By then I already got one.


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## GtoFM (Mar 23, 2018)

Ok, I remember reading a post on the orig. ball bearing style vs the bronze style. I didn't flag it and can't find it. Can someone tell me which is better and why?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Pontiacs have always used a bearing. Bronze style is more forgiving if the input shaft is off alignment.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

*My opinion and choice *has always been a sintered bronze bushing over a pilot bearing. Pilot bearings can disintegrate and fail given enough years, mileage, abuse, etc. My guess is that the clutch/pressure plate will need changing out long before the bearing would fail because it will be replaced at that time.

You will also find arguments for the pilot bearing, so it once again boils down to choice.

If I am correct, our cars came with a roller bearing type sealed bearing, not a needle bearing. Roller bearings are a little more forgiving with regards to slight mis-alignment, just as the input shaft of our older transmissions use as opposed to the modern day needle bearings and tight clearances these transmissions are built to. Needle bearings of high quality are great, however the average shop guy laying on his back with the engine in the car might not get the bearing seated in the crank perfectly square. If the engine is already assembled and in the car, the bronze bushing is a better choice as it can tolerate slight misalignment.

Something one should consider and check when rebuilding your engine. If using, or upgrading, to a manual transmission the bellhousing and block's accuracy should be verified with the dial indicator method or the Browwell Alignment Tool. This is especially important when using a modern type transmission having needle bearings like the TKO. This is even pointed out in the instruction manual. Damages can result.









How To Align Bellhousing - High Performance Pontiac Magazine


Read about how to align your bellhousing on your Pontiac's manual transmission. Check it out only at www.highperformancepontiac.com, the official website for High Performance Pontiac Magazine!




www.motortrend.com





Because of manufacturing tolerances or line boring of the mains, it's possible for the index to be off. Unless the hole in the bellhousing is in alignment with the crankshaft, undue wear will occur to the shaft, bearings, and/or pilot bushing. An all bronze oilite bushing is basically incapable of such damage, the bronze being softer than the shaft causes the bushing to be sacrificed instead of the shaft.

A "good" pilot bushings that GM used and the good NAPA brand bushing is a bronze oilite made of sintered bronze. *If a magnet is attracted* to the bushing, I would suggest not using it and keep looking for a good bushing.

A cheap or offshore made pilot bushing may contain a good amount of iron or steel in the material's composition can and will cause galling of the pilot shaft end of the transmission's input shaft. The high amount of steel and an under lubricated or over worked condition that causes microwelding of the shaft to the bushing under extreme conditions of heat and load.

More info to enjoy.

*Pilot Bushing *

In most cases, this is a porous bronze, pre-lubed bushing rather than an actual bearing, as it is often called. A few applications still use an actual bearing and others use a needle roller type bearing, but by far, the most common type is bronze. *You cannot use a roller bearing on a transmission shaft originally designed for a bronze bushing due to different type of heat treatment on the shafts.*

For a list of several versions of pilot bushings offered by Novak, jump here.

The pilot bushing is seldom thought of as a part of the clutch system but it is one of the most vital parts of the system. It pilots the end of the transmission input gear in the crankshaft. If it is worn or not running "true", it can cause serious clutch problems or transmission failure. Pilot bushing bore runout should always be checked with a dial indicator and should be within .002 total. The bronze bushing type should be a press fit in the crankshaft bore. It must be installed carefully. It should have between .002 and .003 clearance on the transmission shaft when installed. The pilot bushing is only functional when the clutch is disengaged but it is a factor in input gear alignment at ALL times.

Most people have no idea what an important part the pilot bushing plays in the life of the transmission and clutch. The job of the pilot bushing is to support the end of the transmission input (main drive) gear in the crankshaft and it only acts as a bushing when the clutch is depressed. This pilot bushing should be a light drive fit into the crank bore. Care should be taken when installing any pilot bushing as they are soft and easily damaged by crude installation techniques. A damaged pilot bushing can bind on the input gear giving symptoms of clutch drag. Transmission damage and early failure can be caused by a pilot bushing or crankshaft bore that "runs out" in relation to the transmission locating bore in the bellhousing. It is advisable to check the bore of the crank with a dial indicator before installing the pilot bushing (see below). If the bore runs out more than .003 total, the crank should be set up in a lathe and the bore trued up OR a special pilot bushing should be made that runs out the same amount as the crank bore. The run out in the bore of a pilot bushing is put 180 degrees off from the crank bore run out and the pilot bushing installed. If properly done, this can put the bore of the pilot bushing well within the .003 required. We have used this method to save engine disassembly many times. A disadvantage of this method shows up at pilot bushing replacement time as a special pilot bushing will have to be reproduced.

Clutch alignment is critical to installation. Otherwise, expect the transmission to not line up with the pilot bushing.

It is always a good idea to use an input gear (of the proper diameter) or clutch aligning tool when installing the clutch on any engine. With the clutch disc aligned on the pilot bushing it becomes a simple matter when installing the transmission to engage the splines and bolt up the transmission . If this simple procedure is not done, the transmission shaft won't line up and the temptation will be great to "pull it up with the bolts" which damages the front transmission bearing, pilot bushing, and more than likely will break an ear off the transmission or adapter. The transmission should slip in freely to mate up with the face of the bellhousing.






The Novak Guide to Clutches, Linkages & Bellhousings for Jeep® Conversions


The Novak Guide to Clutches, Linkages & Bellhousings for Jeep® Conversions




www.novak-adapt.com


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

GtoFM said:


> Ok, I remember reading a post on the orig. ball bearing style vs the bronze style. I didn't flag it and can't find it. Can someone tell me which is better and why?


Friday I picked up my trans & hurst shifter from the guru here in Nor Cal and he told me the bearings have a tendency to fail over time and said be sure to get the non magnetic bronze bushing I really didnt get into detail other than that. all he does is Muncies & Hursts hes about 75 if you met him you would know this guy knows his stuff.
He checked over mine replaced a few parts explained what I have painted and cleaned them as necessary $200.
If anyone is interested there a 67gold GTO auto #'s matching for sale on Goodguys site $18k. I thought thats a real good price but Ive got nowhere to put it. In Racine, WI
Plus I done like autos in muscle cars, but its a cruzer with 3.55's says runs good, looks good


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## goat671 (Apr 13, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> Friday I picked up my trans & hurst shifter from the guru here in Nor Cal and he told me the bearings have a tendency to fail over time and said be sure to get the non magnetic bronze bushing I really didnt get into detail other than that. all he does is Muncies & Hursts hes about 75 if you met him you would know this guy knows his stuff.
> He checked over mine replaced a few parts explained what I have painted and cleaned them as necessary $200.
> If anyone is interested there a 67gold GTO auto #'s matching for sale on Goodguys site $18k. I thought thats a real good price but Ive got nowhere to put it. In Racine, WI
> Plus I done like autos in muscle cars, but its a cruzer with 3.55's says runs good, looks good


Yea that is a real good price looking at the images it wonder about the paint seems to be different shades on the body panels.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I prefer the bushing because I suck at getting the clutch disk lined up perfect. Even when working with the engine out of the car, I couldn't do it. My trick is use the bushing and get it as close as possible. Sneak the transmission in the car as far as it will go without forcing it and then have the wife push the clutch pedal. Transmission ships right in.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

goat671 said:


> Yea that is a real good price looking at the images it wonder about the paint seems to be different shades on the body panels.


I noticed that too but Ive seen shit piles go for $18k all rusted non matching seems like a fairly good price there was also a 65 corvette for $25k and a 69 camaro for $215k I had to laugh at that who would pay that much for camaro. I would by a GT40 or a Ferrari maybe for that price. I would like to see what verifies that price.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> If the internet is correct, here are the dimensions. You can verify your crank to make sure it will fit.
> 
> Specs :
> 1.3825" Outside Diameter
> ...


Here's my bushing specs FWIW and a magnet sticks to it so it's not a non magnetic? Maybe it's a cocktail ring for my wife or my new paper weight idk.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Check ebay for a nos one.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Do u know where u got it & the part #?
I have a national bearing one shouldnt there deminsions be the same?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Idk maybe the McLeod clutch? but the motor already had one.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

More Information for PIONEER PB656


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

GTOJUNIOR said:


> More Information for PIONEER PB656


Tats funny I put in the #s and it says it doesnt have anything


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Idk maybe the McLeod clutch? but the motor already had one.


Mines a RAM Ive looked for it on RAM to no avail.
My drive line is taken apart radiator to rear axle so nows the time to get it all. I have the bearing bush is it really that much of a difference? I know it will last longer but how much and does it make it smoother of a spin or ?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> Here's my bushing specs FWIW and a magnet sticks to it so it's not a non magnetic? Maybe it's a cocktail ring for my wife or my new paper weight idk.
> View attachment 146712
> View attachment 146713
> View attachment 146714



That may be for a Chevy. It is not for a Pontiac.

If a magnet sticks, it has a lot of iron and may wear out the pilot pin on the input shaft of the trans. Of course that is what they want so you have to do some replacement $parts on your trans the next time you replace the clutch disc and see the wear on the pilot pin.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> That may be for a Chevy. It is not for a Pontiac.
> 
> If a magnet sticks, it has a lot of iron and may wear out the pilot pin on the input shaft of the trans. Of course that is what they want so you have to do some replacement $parts on your trans the next time you replace the clutch disc and see the wear on the pilot pin.


So the measurements you put up
1.3825" OD
.591" ID
.3565" depth
are good for bronze?
Is there a difference between the bronze and the roller bearing type? The size. I have a National roller bearing bushing, for a RAM clutch, Muncie M21 4 speed


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> That may be for a Chevy. It is not for a Pontiac.
> 
> If a magnet sticks, it has a lot of iron and may wear out the pilot pin on the input shaft of the trans. Of course that is what they want so you have to do some replacement $parts on your trans the next time you replace the clutch disc and see the wear on the pilot pin.


Ok, then it's my new paper weight 😉


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Droach6498 said:


> So the measurements you put up
> 1.3825" OD
> .591" ID
> .3565" depth
> ...


You can use whatever you choose, both types will work. The OD and ID numbers above are most important. Not sure if the roller is thicker or thinner in depth. Should be fairly close if you measure the roller and compare to the above depth number.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> Ok, then it's my new paper weight 😉


Looks like the McLeod bushing fits Chevy/Olds according to Summit:

OD - 1.094"
ID - .592"









CHEVROLET McLeod Racing 8-1094-1 McLeod Pilot Bearings and Bushings | Summit Racing


Free Shipping - McLeod Pilot Bearings and Bushings with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Pilot Bearings and Bushings at Summit Racing.




www.summitracing.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Looks like the McLeod bushing fits Chevy/Olds according to Summit:
> 
> OD - 1.094"
> ID - .592"
> ...


Maybe I got it with the clutch I can't remember and maybe that clutch fits Chevys also? It's in with my pile parts on Craigslist reduced to 50.00 now.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Looks like the McLeod bushing fits Chevy/Olds according to Summit:
> 
> OD - 1.094"
> ID - .592"
> ...


That would be my guess. When I replaced the bushing on my old engine the only video I could find for install was done on a BBC. That's what the bushing looked like (same as the one that came with the McLeod). I saved the one that I have to use as a drift/press. Figure it's no good for me as a bushing but may work better than a socket for hammering something in.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Jared said:


> That would be my guess. When I replaced the bushing on my old engine the only video I could find for install was done on a BBC. That's what the bushing looked like (same as the one that came with the McLeod). I saved the one that I have to use as a drift/press. Figure it's no good for me as a bushing but may work better than a socket for hammering something in.


Maybe good for the wobble table they give me when I show up with 6 kids. Food, beverages, kids and a wobbly table always a good time.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

The crank on my '66 OHC 6 is stepped to accept all the above.
Same on the '66 GTO and never had any install issues.


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## 1969GPSJ (Feb 26, 2020)

DR 
I have a Muncie m20 the National bearing 7109 fits fine (Made in China) same size as the Pioneer bushing
I have a Pioneer PB 75 bushing magnet *STICKS* Made in USA according to the box 
let me know if you are interested in the Pioneer 5.00 plus shipping, it will likely fit it in a padded envelope


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

1969GPSJ said:


> DR
> I have a Muncie m20 the National bearing 7109 fits fine (Made in China) same size as the Pioneer bushing
> I have a Pioneer PB 75 bushing magnet *STICKS* Made in USA according to the box
> let me know if you are interested in the Pioneer 5.00 plus shipping, it will likely fit it in a padded envelope


I would not be using any bearing that is not sealed. Dirt/Dust/Grime will get into the bearing and wipe it out. A sealed bearing is what you want.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The correct 7109 is sealed on one side which is what you want for the pilot bearing. Open side towards the crank. I just ordered a national 7109 from Amazon. Returned it because it had a Chinese brand bearing (Peer) inside the box.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

O52 said:


> The correct 7109 is sealed on one side which is what you want for the pilot bearing. Open side towards the crank. I just ordered a national 7109 from Amazon. Returned it because it had a Chinese brand bearing (Peer) inside the box.
> Which direction does the solid bushing go? Haha
> I ordered the pioneer solid one hope its OK? Not some Chinese junk. And I have the National 7109 if anyone wants it. Not likely after this conversation over a small part. But important.:-]
> I cancelled my order from Amazon, I find alot of there items are Chinese
> Thanks for the help never would have guessed if not for Rich


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## 1969GPSJ (Feb 26, 2020)

so the original Pilot bearing i took out is the 7109 USA made same configuration as the Chinese version with the exposed ball bearings on 1 side, does anyone have a line on US made pilot bearings?? the box I have shows National bearings and in real small letters show Federal-Mogul 
TIA


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I just bought an NOS Delco 7109 on Ebay. $8. 
We'll see what it looks like next week.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Hmmmm, the plot thickens. Looking at pilot bearings for the Pontiac, I do see the bearing as shown by *O52*. It is sealed on one side and open on the other. I know in my youth I recall I used a pilot bearing that was sealed on both side, like a wheel bearing. Probably got it at NAPA at the time.

I did find this:

#7109 is the bearing number
#6202 has the same ID and OD but is a little deeper.
*The 6202 bearing is also sealed on both sides* and the 7109 is only sealed on one side. 

Just to confuse everyone more on bushing versus bearing choice, here is more pro/con for the use of each. The first part of this post is in regards to bellhousing alignment which can wipe out a bushing or bearing. But read on as to why you may not want the bearing.

*Bellhousing alignment *- and why

"I have read about bellhousing alignment that causes input shaft bearing wear, pilot bearing wear, and vibration issues. No expert on this, but the big and small block Chevys use bushings and they work OK."

"Have you ever checked the bellhousing alignment? In most cases the answer is probably no. Many of us who work on/restore our cars install the clutch assembly, pilot bearing, and bolt the bellhousing up to the engine block without even giving it a second thought. However, there is a very high probability that a stock (or aftermarket) bellhousing installed with stock engine dowel pins will not be in tolerance. How will this affect your car? Very simple - if the bellhousing is not concentric with the crankshaft within 0.005 inch, serious damage can occur to the pilot bearing in your crankshaft, and/or, the input shaft of your transmission. An alignment issue like this can also cause vibrations in your driveline while driving under normal conditions, as well as, hard shifting. One such example for this case, the bellhousing to block alignment was out of tolerance by 0.014 inch. This misalignment created excessive stress on the pilot tip of the input shaft, which eventually fatigued, broke off, and allowed the transmission input shaft to wobble extensively around in the crankshaft. This resulted in tremendous heat sufficient to cause the throw-out bearing to seize up and weld itself to the bearing retainer."

*Pro for replacing bushing for bearing* - after bell is aligned

"Chevrolet installed a solid bronze pilot bushing from the factory when these cars were new. Our experience indicates this bronze pilot bushing allowed for misalignment between the engine block and bellhousing. The bushings are very soft and wear easily and the transmission will still function under normal conditions. This was adequate for easy street driving, but in time, with wear from misalignment, the input shaft of your transmission will be wobbling around within a worn pilot bushing. We strongly recommended that anyone who is replacing a pilot bushing install a pilot bearing at the same time that they perform the bellhousing dowel pin alignment. Installing this pilot bearing, together with the mandatory proper bellhousing alignment, will add tremendous integrity, balance and smoothness to your driveline."

*Pro for bronze bushing* - bearing can fail 

"Roller bearings are fun until they fail. The question is when do they fail and how do they fail. There is a real possibility of damaging a bearing if its installed incorrectly or cocked, and when do you find out? When you drive the car for a little while and it becomes harder to shift and the tranny starts making noises, by which time its too late. There is also a real possibility that when you install the tranny that the tip of the input shaft might damage the bearing and cause the same symptoms mentioned previously.

What happens when the bearing fails, at least the several I have seen, is that the failed bearing slings grease all over the face of the clutch and the flywheel causing the clutch to slip, but you never catch it in time at that stage. Also, the novel little bearings can imbed themselves into the face of the clutch ruining it and also scoring the face of the flywheel and not just a little bit either, deep gouging like what rivets on brake shoes do to drums kinda gouging, so its new flywheel time. And finally, without the support of the nose of the input shaft, the shaft itself starts to wobble and when it does there goes the front tranny bearing and the possibly the tranny housing. The wobbling also chages the way the gears interface and damages the first gear and the cluster gear and maybe, AND MAYBE you caught it before it takes out the rear gears in the tranny too....maybe, because it can happen fast and test drivinging the drivetrain to analyze the problem actually causes it to get worse and all those new and emerging symptoms confuse you so you keep testing to figure out wtf it is until you finally come to the conclusion - your tranny is bad (real Bad!) and when you take it out you notice everything else that is or has gone bad - because of a failed pilot bearing.

So what does a bearing cost and what does a bushing cost? Bearings have been around, in that application for a long time, and for the hundreds of million cars under warranty from the factory the bushing seems to be just fine."


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

My trans builder wanted a video of the motor being turned with a dial indicator to warranty the trans, now what says I take it apart after that idk but he sent all kinds of information on alignment, it's definitely important.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....just another note regarding this I painted and cleared the bellhousing a bunch then went to trial fit the trans and it wouldn't go all the way in, I didn't know what was wrong so I thought the pilot bushing was wrong so I take the clutch off try it and the trans goes in wtf....here I didn't count on the tolerance to be so tight where the trans front collar slides into the bellhousing. Turned out I had to much paint in that area, wire wheeled it and what do you know slid right in...good thing I wasn't under the car trying to figure that out 🤦‍♂️


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The problem with the 6202 bearing is that not all crankshafts are drilled the same depth. There have been instances where a 6202 protrudes out a mm or so


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## 1969GPSJ (Feb 26, 2020)

Good tip 
so what component does the dial indicator land on ? flywheel ?
thx


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

1969GPSJ said:


> Good tip
> so what component does the dial indicator land on ? flywheel ?
> thx


Yes.

Here is a really detailed article that includes checking the back of the block and mounting surface of the bellhousing. I have never done this, nor anyone I have ever known has done this or even recommended this. You have to remember, our older cars are not manufactured/built to the exacting tolerances that many cars are built with today. They are built with enough play in the parts so they work - and if the alignment was off a tad, it still worked.

With the newer transmissioons like the TKO that many upgrade to, the tolerances within the trans and the use of needle bearings versus roller bearings, requires that the trans-to-crank alignment be exactly through measurement or you can damage or have issues with the transmission down the road. I am sure that this can be the problem with some who experience this and then blame the transmission or clutch set-up because that is where the problem can be physically viewed - BUT, in reality it was the alignment of the trans-to-crank relationship, or bellhousing-to-block alignment that was the real problem that cascaded into the end result of damaged transmission, poor shifting, or a clutch problem.

Bellhousing alignment dowels are used to center the bellhousing as needed. You will see these in the article. I have read that the RobbMc are the way to go as you can lock these in place with the set screw once alignment is completed.



RobbMcPerformance Bellhousing Alignment Dowels



YouTube also has plenty of video's that can be viewed.









How To Align Your Bellhousing For Maximum Transmission And Clutch Life


You should align your bellhousing and transmission when mating them up to make sure that there isn't a bind when you go for that heroic shift. Nobody wants to be the guy who misses a shift, and you don't want to be the person tearing things apart for a damage inspection!




www.holley.com


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## 1969GPSJ (Feb 26, 2020)

PJ
Thanks for the write up very informative


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I have a new one.
> View attachment 146607


This pilot bushing in the pic is it correct? As I just received pioneer PB-656 and it doesnt match the measurements to PJs #s at all butit fits on my shaft and matches perfect to the spline portion 1.09 to 1.10 is also not non magnetic, not sure thats terribly important.


O52 said:


> I just bought an NOS Delco 7109 on Ebay. $8.
> We'll see what it looks like next week.


I just got the Pioneer its fine except it magnetic sensitive. I paid $4.50 shipping included from Rock Auto, still searching. Now I have 2 working on # 3


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> This pilot bushing in the pic is it correct? As I just received pioneer PB-656 and it doesnt match the measurements to PJs #s at all butit fits on my shaft and matches perfect to the spline portion 1.09 to 1.10 is also not non magnetic, not sure thats terribly important.
> 
> I just got the Pioneer its fine except it magnetic sensitive. I paid $4.50 shipping included from Rock Auto, still searching. Now I have 2 working on # 3


I guess mines for a Chevy according to the measurements posted here, it's in my box of bolts and probably will use it as a punch die 👍


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Yes.
> 
> Here is a really detailed article that includes checking the back of the block and mounting surface of the bellhousing. I have never done this, nor anyone I have ever known has done this or even recommended this. You have to remember, our older cars are not manufactured/built to the exacting tolerances that many cars are built with today. They are built with enough play in the parts so they work - and if the alignment was off a tad, it still worked.
> 
> ...


I asked Rich my tranny guru here and he said if your running stock trans flywheels no worries its when you get into the after market stuff. which I know you have to with the Tremec or the warranty is void. Ive seen the Youtube video how to dial the flywheel to bellhousing it looks easy really just a waste to buy the dial and use it once. They dont carry it at any of the parts stores to rent either. Amazon has them around $30 more than likely Chinese


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> My trans builder wanted a video of the motor being turned with a dial indicator to warranty the trans, now what says I take it apart after that idk but he sent all kinds of information on alignment, it's definitely important.
> View attachment 146795


Nice looking engine. Do you have a pic of the front?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> View attachment 146806
> View attachment 146807
> View attachment 146808
> 
> ...


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Thanks I try, they are a Spectre hose kit from Summit not the best quality but no troubles so far, yes an 11 bolt Flowcooler pump. It's a Butler motor '72 block.....here's what it looked like when I got it.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

You must have alot of parts left over its really hunky looking. Yeh I wish I had known I could have changed the timing cover for an 11 bolt WP would have made things simpler. Its been really hard on me Ive never done this before Ive got a 68 chevy posi rear end, 68 Hurst shifter, 68 Muncie, 67 400 block on a 65 GTO. It can be confusing getting parts for like the radiator, it had to be for 65 first one the cap hit the hood when closing sent it back but I got it right. Took me awhile to figure it all out.The worst was when the 1st machinist started putting it together he decided it was to much for him. After having it for 7 weeks. I was pissed. But turned out to be a good thing as the guy now is really good and we sent the pistons back to Kaufman and hes having them made so I can run pump gas. I'll lose some HP but should work out for the better


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I sell all my old parts to help supplement a quarter of the price of the new ones 👍


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Thanks I try, they are a Spectre hose kit from Summit not the best quality but no troubles so far, yes an 11 bolt Flowcooler pump. It's a Butler motor '72 block.....here's what it looked like when I got it. Y
> View attachment 146809


You were a bit over the limit on your hoist. I borrowed one like that from a friend and couldn't use it. It didn't have enough reach to pull the engine out from the front. Did you work from the side or was the nose off your car? Just curious. Brain fart on my part. Confused the 1/2 ton label with 1/4. The larger 2 ton I picked up was barely deep enough even at it's furthest setting. I had to have one of my kids push on the engine a little as I lowered it in.

I'll agree with the above statement. Your engine is beautiful. That is a way cleaner install than mine was.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Na it's a 2500 lb lift I believe with the extended legs, had no problems from the front, took out the old and put in the new by myself, thanks 👍


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Na it's a 2500 lb lift I believe with the extended legs, had no problems from the front, took out the old and put in the new by myself, thanks 👍


I have to correct that post. I saw the half ton setting and converted it to 1/4 ton by mistake. A typical Jared brain fart. I did borrow a light duty hoist that I couldn't use. That much was accurate.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Are those those tall valve covers? Do you have stud girdles? I got them, stud girdles, and I would like to get some nice looking tall vc those look nice from the others Ive seen

I sell all my old parts to help supplement a quarter of the price of the new ones 👍
DITTO so do I


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Wow, weather is really great down here, perfect for working on my Fury. Installing shocks all around and got the gas KYB's from Rockauto. Fit is perfect except the front shock don't have the cord straps that typically keeps the front shock compressed. The Fury has just a small oval to pass them through, not like GM. What a fight to compress them and then tie them off with some welding wire. This helped a bunch, but the shocks were a bit larger than stock so I had to literally use a floor jack to get them up into the hole just that last 2" where they were hitting the A-arm.

The car needed U-joints. So I replaced these and there were no needle bearings in the back u-joint and the fronts were locked up. Got that done. While underneath, goo thing, the rubber brake hose was really wet at the union where the steel line joins. Now I have to address that and hope the steel line doesn't break as it is rusty, but you know its going to.

Tightened up the passenger side exhaust as it had loosened up from the manifold and when I go over bumps, it would bang on the floorboards. That should take care of that.

Oh, wait a minute! This post is about bronze pilot bearings? Somehow I just got off topic!


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Wow, weather is really great down here, perfect for working on my Fury. Installing shocks all around and got the gas KYB's from Rockauto. Fit is perfect except the front shock don't have the cord straps that typically keeps the front shock compressed. The Fury has just a small oval to pass them through, not like GM. What a fight to compress them and then tie them off with some welding wire. This helped a bunch, but the shocks were a bit larger than stock so I had to literally use a floor jack to get them up into the hole just that last 2" where they were hitting the A-arm.
> 
> The car needed U-joints. So I replaced these and there were no needle bearings in the back u-joint and the fronts were locked up. Got that done. While underneath, goo thing, the rubber brake hose was really wet at the union where the steel line joins. Now I have to address that and hope the steel line doesn't break as it is rusty, but you know its going to.
> 
> ...


Not really PJ we've all just been jabbin funny though i really want to put those shocks on the front of my goat but you have to compress the springs I dont have a compressor. 
Still lookin for a non magnetic PB so far I have 2 lookin for a 3rd 😀


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Wow, weather is really great down here, perfect for working on my Fury. Installing shocks all around and got the gas KYB's from Rockauto. Fit is perfect except the front shock don't have the cord straps that typically keeps the front shock compressed. The Fury has just a small oval to pass them through, not like GM. What a fight to compress them and then tie them off with some welding wire. This helped a bunch, but the shocks were a bit larger than stock so I had to literally use a floor jack to get them up into the hole just that last 2" where they were hitting the A-arm.
> 
> The car needed U-joints. So I replaced these and there were no needle bearings in the back u-joint and the fronts were locked up. Got that done. While underneath, goo thing, the rubber brake hose was really wet at the union where the steel line joins. Now I have to address that and hope the steel line doesn't break as it is rusty, but you know its going to.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but how much can you talk about pilot bushings 🤣


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

This looks to be close to the size Jim quoted. Lot of 2 Chevy Camaro Chevelle Bronze Non Magnetic Oiled Clutch Pilot Bushings | eBay
​

​ot Bushing O.D. : 1.0935"
Clutch Pilot Bushing Width : .753"
Used On Many Chevy, GM Applications, See Below
Check out my other items!​
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Pickup6.0 L 366 CID V8 Vortec2000 - 2000Chevrolet TruckSuburban 1500 1/2 Ton2000 - 2001Chevrolet TruckSuburban 2500 3/4 Ton2000 - 2000Chevrolet TruckTahoe2000 - 2001Eagle ChryslerPremier1988 - 1991GMC TruckC3500 1 Ton - Pickup2000 - 2000GMC TruckCaballero1978 - 1981GMC TruckK3500 1 Ton 4WD - Pickup2000 - 2000GMC TruckSierra 1500 1/2 Ton 2WD - Pickup4.8 L 294 CID V82000 - 2001GMC TruckSierra 1500 1/2 Ton 2WD - Pickup5.3 L 325 CID V82000 - 2001GMC TruckSierra 1500 1/2 Ton 4WD - Pickup4.8 L 294 CID V82000 - 2001GMC TruckSierra 1500 1/2 Ton 4WD - Pickup5.3 L 325 CID V82000 - 2001GMC TruckSierra 1500HD 1/2 Ton - Pickup2001 - 2001GMC TruckSierra 2500 3/4 Ton 2WD - Pickup6.0 L 366 CID V8 Vortec2000 - 2000GMC TruckSierra 2500 3/4 Ton 4WD - Pickup6.0 L 366 CID V8 Vortec2000 - 2000GMC TruckSprint1971 - 1977GMC TruckYukon2000 - 2001GMC TruckYukon XL 1/2 Ton2000 - 2001GMC TruckYukon XL 3/4 Ton6.0 L 366 CID V8 Vortec2000 - 2000JeepCherokee2.5 L 150 CID L4 AMC Design1988 - 1993JeepCJ52.5 L 151 CID L4 GM Design1981 - 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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Sorry, but how much can you talk about pilot bushings 🤣


Vince Lombardi once spent an entire day explaining a sweep play to 20 coaches


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> Sorry, but how much can you talk about pilot bushings 🤣


Well you can always baffle them with your BS or go sideways and talk about *Bush*-ing Pilots.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

O52 said:


> Well you can always baffle them with your BS or go sideways and talk about *Bush*-ing Pilots.


When you say "bush," you are talkin' 'bout female anatomy, right? Yeah, I do some piloting in that area - the "dive" and the "hammer head" is some of my favorite stunt flying.


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Baaad65 said:


> Here's my bushing specs FWIW and a magnet sticks to it so it's not a non magnetic? Maybe it's a cocktail ring for my wife or my new paper weight idk.
> View attachment 146712
> View attachment 146713
> View attachment 146714


looks like one I installed in my 67 LeMans 3-speed dearborn years ago.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Actually, no. Alaska was more on my mind... lol


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> When you say "bush," you are talkin' 'bout female anatomy, right? Yeah, I do some piloting in that area - the "dive" and the "hammer head" is some of my favorite stunt flying.


Thats right if god didnt want you to eat ***** he wouldnt have made it look like a taco


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

O52 said:


> Actually, no. Alaska was more on my mind... lol


Oh, my bad. Your fault for not being specific. Sometimes my mind just goes there for no reason at all.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

...it's with a lot of parts I'm trying to sell on craigslist under Pontiac parts in the 60172 zip code.
[/QUOTE]
I still dont have a non magnetic pb not sure its all that important but if you still have this one I'd be interested


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Droach6498 said:


> ...it's with a lot of parts I'm trying to sell on craigslist under Pontiac parts in the 60172 zip code.


I still dont have a non magnetic pb not sure its all that important but if you still have this one I'd be interested
[/QUOTE]
I thought we determined here that mine wasn't for a Pontiac, I still have it but it's magnetic.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I still dont have a non magnetic pb not sure its all that important but if you still have this one I'd be interested


I thought we determined here that mine wasn't for a Pontiac, I still have it but it's magnetic.
[/QUOTE]
ok


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Droach6498 said:


> I thought we determined here that mine wasn't for a Pontiac, I still have it but it's magnetic.


ok
[/QUOTE]
For what it's worth...unless this is gonna be your daily driver and your gonna leave black lines down the road everyday, any bearing or bushing will probably be fine. I just looked on Ebay trying to find you a non magnetic and nothing.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Yeh Im probably going to be selling the car before I hit 2000 miles so Im sure no big deal. I took my trans to a repair he said use a non mag pb so I got it in my head Iver got to havee one. .


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Droach6498 said:


> Yeh Im probably going to be selling the car before I hit 2000 miles so Im sure no big deal. I took my trans to a repair he said use a non mag pb so I got it in my head Iver got to havee one. .


Understand, hard to find non magnetic for Gto.


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

RMTZ67 said:


> Understand, hard to find non magnetic fo
> You know they're not just finding but when you do they are like $20 + $20 shippong which really pisses me off I shipped a power steering gear box for $20 San Diego to Nor Cal but seems ridiculous that little item cost so much to ship. BS
> Thanks


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Contact Tom at this number.
856-975-1071

Muncie expert and sells the oil lite bushing


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