# Carburetor



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

My "new" carb should arrive here tomorrow. I decided on this one.

#9913 Edelbrock Reconditioned #1411 Performer Series Carburetor 750 cfm, Electric Choke

I'm about to ask some really stupid and basic questions so prepare yourself.

1. How difficult is this gonna be to install?
2. I know I need the adapter plate and gasket/stud kit. Is there anything else I'll need?
3. Lastly... Is this even something I should be attempting? I've no experience working on a carburetor.

The engine in the my car is the 400 bored 30 over with a ram air 3 cam. If I do install this will the "stock" settings on the carb be close enough so I can take it to the shop and have it tuned?


----------



## Richard Boneske (Jul 29, 2008)

If you have a Quadrajet manifold, this carb won't fit. If it's a manifold for a Carter AFB, carb will bolt up easily. Typically, however, these carbs don't work "out of the box" on Pontiac engines. Let us know how it runs when you get it on. Maybe we can help.


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

Find you a 65/66 389 GTO intake if you plan on using this carb.I believe it will bolt right up on your 400.....I had a Holley spread bore replacement on my 67 GTO and it was a great carb with an electric choke........


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I plan on using an adapter for this carb. Something like this.

JEGS 15440 JEGS Spread Bore to Square Flange Adapter

The new carb is a square bore and the intake is a spread bore.


----------



## twinjracing (Aug 28, 2010)

Make sure it is a four hole adapter or you will have a dead spot usualy right about 1500 rpm. M ost edelbrocks run good out of the box.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Ok... The new carb arrived today. I also picked up this adapter from the local store.

Advance Auto Parts: Performer Series Carb Adapter by Edelbrock - Part 2696

I'm not feeling too confident about tackling this project. I'd really hate to mess this one up.

Are there any other parts I'm gonna need?


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

If you have a 4-bbl spread bore now just put the adapter on the side that matches the intake and visa versa.The rest is just hooking it up.Make sure you install an in-line fuel filter..........JB.


----------



## mikes06goat (Jan 13, 2009)

Depending on your air cleaner you might need the edelbrock banjo fitting for the fuel inlet.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

What about the vacuum fitting? Can I reuse that from the old carb? 

It already has an inline fuel filter.

EDIT:: It has a K&N air cleaner.


----------



## twinjracing (Aug 28, 2010)

the carb should have vac fitting with it. A new fuel is always a good idea!!! not hard to do. You might need a cable adapter or linkage addapter. Have fun.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Well... after viewing all the install videos on the Edelbrock website and comparing the new carb to the old one... I'm gonna have the garage do this project.

It looks to me like the pcv valve doesn't connect into the quadrajet carb, but rather into the top of the intake. So... what would I do with the front vacuum port on the new carb? Also... the vacuum brake connection on the back... I'm not comfortable messing with that.


----------



## Richard Boneske (Jul 29, 2008)

Why are you going through all this trouble to put an Edlebrock Carter-style AFB on your manifold that's made to accept a Quadrajet? The Quadrajet is superior in every way to the AFB---economy, performance, and reliability. The AFB design is from 1958, whereas the Quadrajet sas first used in 1967. 

Now, you're going to spend a lot of money to have someone do the work for you. The result will be short of a stock Quadrajet no matter how well the garage does the work. 

I'm sure the majority of people on this board will agree with this. Send it back before you install it and can't return it.


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

They show a replacement Q-Jet for $399.00.Buying an adapter and then paying to have it put on negates the difference.You never did say what problems you were having with your carb.Maybe we can solve any issues and save you some bucks for other improvements........JB.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Oddly enough I chose this carb based on recommendations here on these forums.

I'm more confused... now than ever.

EDIT:: It's rough to start and won't idle properly until it's warmed up. Once it's warm you can drive it but if you step on the accelerator hard it just bogs down. There's no power.

I'm basing my decision to buy a new carb on the previous owner's comments as well as the mechanic he paid to rebuild the engine. The previous owner ran out of money to continue the project and put a new carb on it.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

What about this one? JET Performance 35002 JET Modified Streetmaster Rochester Quadrajet - Q-Jet Carburetors

Or this one..? http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/15801/10002/-1?CT=999


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

Sounds like the choke pull-off on the starting issue and timing retarded on the bogging under acceleration.If the cam is as you say,they may have so much spar knock they had to retard the timing to keep it from popping a piston.What heads are you running?Hope some more people will chime in and we can get her cranking like a poncho should...JB.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I forgot to add that it knocks like crazy if you try to accelerate hard.

I stopped by a local performance garage today. I told them what I thought the engine had in it:

Pontiac 400 bored 30 over with new pistons.
Moly rings
Ram Air 3 cam
QuadraJet carb
Turbo 400 transmission

Both guys there said that cam is not made for use with an automatic transmission. It really should be run with a 4 speed manual.


----------



## twinjracing (Aug 28, 2010)

Q- jets are great carbs when they work when they go to the dark side they are junk no mater how many times you try to fix them. I said edebrock becuse you asked holley or edelbrock. IF you want to stay stock the Q-jets are great if you get new or some one who knows them well to fix yours. From what i have heard the jet are good and the summit ones are also. I'm have to make up my mind on (i know it's not pontiac but) my vista cruiser it is all stock 455 but the carb is shot the shafts are loose and leaking plus it brings fuel throu the top? I have had three persons rebild it an all say they can fix it and still the same!! So buy new Q- jet or put my edelbrock 750 on it. It's a hard one to chose.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I just want my car to run properly. Somehow I don't think it's gonna until that cam is changed out for something a bit more stock.


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

Also post what # heads and year they are.......JB.


----------



## twinjracing (Aug 28, 2010)

Yes to big of a cam will make it run bad also the compresion to high will cause problems.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

That's what I've been reading.... It's a performance cam meant more for the strip than the street.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Jerry64 said:


> Also post what # heads and year they are.......JB.


Where do I look for the number?

EDIT:: If I were guessing I would say that they are stock heads. The color exactly matches the engine block and they appear to have the same amount of wear/rust to them. This car still has the original QuadraJet carb on it.

Here are some pictures I just took. Can anyone identify the heads from these?


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Richard Boneske said:


> Why are you going through all this trouble to put an Edlebrock Carter-style AFB on your manifold that's made to accept a Quadrajet? The Quadrajet is superior in every way to the AFB---economy, performance, and reliability. The AFB design is from 1958, whereas the Quadrajet sas first used in 1967.
> 
> Now, you're going to spend a lot of money to have someone do the work for you. The result will be short of a stock Quadrajet no matter how well the garage does the work.
> 
> I'm sure the majority of people on this board will agree with this. Send it back before you install it and can't return it.


:agree:agree Go with the Q-Jet! The head #s are above the siamesed exhaust ports (middle2) should be something like 670 or 6X or 093......


----------



## twinjracing (Aug 28, 2010)

Another thing i see is accel wires i had one set in my life a were bad brand new. they make other stuff great but not wires. MSD or talor are what i use. My car ran much better with new wires.


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

P......lift that lid and show us the carb you have on now please.Also on a Pontiac,the heads dictate the CR .......JB.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Jerry64 said:


> P......lift that lid and show us the carb you have on now please.Also on a Pontiac,the heads dictate the CR .......JB.


As requested.... 

The Front









The Left Side









The Right Side


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

Looking at all the bolts and screws it don't look hacked up.I would get a kit and rebuild that carb first..........JB.Where you located?


----------



## Richard Boneske (Jul 29, 2008)

Rebuild of the Quadrajet is by far the best and CHEAPEST way to go. The Edlebrock will not perform like the Quadrajet---and will use more gas---and the manifold is not right for it. 

Looks to me like a Feb. 6, 1967 cast date on the heads. If they're 670 castings (cast number between the two center exhaust outlets), they're good ones.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Jerry64 said:


> Looking at all the bolts and screws it don't look hacked up.I would get a kit and rebuild that carb first..........JB.Where you located?


Pennsylvania


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Richard Boneske said:


> Rebuild of the Quadrajet is by far the best and CHEAPEST way to go. The Edlebrock will not perform like the Quadrajet---and will use more gas---and the manifold is not right for it.
> 
> Looks to me like a Feb. 6, 1967 cast date on the heads. If they're 670 castings (cast number between the two center exhaust outlets), they're good ones.


:agree Q-Jet and 670 heads....nice combo!!


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

:agree

(slaps forehead)

These cars are legendary for a reason, they run like Tigers "stock". The Q-jet is certainly rebuildable and an excellent piece when done right. Don't listen to everyone you read on the internet.

Except me, of course.

I would recommend getting the distributor curve checked and the carb rebuilt. Maybe talk to other local enthusiasts with Pontiacs at local shows or cruise in's and see what shops they recommend, or when soliciting a shop to have work done ask for customer references.

I learned the hard way years ago that just going from shop to shop, not having anyone really fix your car and continually just f*cking it up worse just adds up to big bills and big frustration and takes away any "enjoyment" that the hobby brings.

I also suggest buying some books, find out how that quadrajet works, learn why cam timing affects drivability. Even if you do have a shop ultimately do the work you'll have a better understanding of what they are talking about instead of just seeing the mechanics mouth move.

:cheers


----------



## mp4life23 (Apr 28, 2010)

Ive got the eldebrock performer intake and a 600 eldebrock carb in your opinion what is better mine or the original setup


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Thanks for the advice ALKYGTO.


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

mp4life23 said:


> Ive got the eldebrock performer intake and a 600 eldebrock carb in your opinion what is better mine or the original setup


Personally, on a fairly stock motor, I'd go with the stock manifold and Q-jet....Just my fairly experianced opinion.:cheers Eric
PS. If you are happy with what you are running now, keep it. No need to spend money on my opinion.


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

:agree

The big problem IMO with the OP's setup was the need for the adapter. These are really a joke, they restrict airflow bigtime. The Performer intake is no better than a factory intake flow wise, the only advantage is it's aluminum construction.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm not happy with the current carburetor. That doesn't mean that a rebuild of it won't run great though. I met a guy today who has several classic cars. He's going to put me in touch with his engine/carb guy. So... We'll see where this leads.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on this carb. JEGS 15802 JEGS 4-bbl Remanufactured Quadrajet Carburetors

I'm getting too damn antsy waiting for things to happen....like phone calls. It's probably a wash money wise vs. paying a guy to rebuild the one on the engine.

Thoughts?


----------



## Richard Boneske (Jul 29, 2008)

Those Jegs Quadrajets are Chev carbs. The fuel inlet and throttle linkage will not fit with a Pontiac without mods. 

Why are you so against rebuilding the carb you have? There are certainly people that will do it for less than $299!!


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agree Look up Cliff R on PY forum.....


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Richard Boneske said:


> Those Jegs Quadrajets are Chev carbs. The fuel inlet and throttle linkage will not fit with a Pontiac without mods.
> 
> Why are you so against rebuilding the carb you have? There are certainly people that will do it for less than $299!!


It's not that I'm against rebuilding it... I'm impatient. I want my car running well...now! :willy: 

I get obsessed with something and I can't let it go until its finished. Does that make sense?


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Patients Grasshopper....

Your car is not a chevy, you have taken the path less travelled, so your journey will be more difficult. The path of the enlightened is never straight or easy, but will allow you to learn on your quest for power and drivability. 

Buy the book and a kit, do it yourself or have a proffesional rebuild it for you. Ultimately it will be worth it. Don't butcher your car to make inferior parts fit, you will regret it later.


----------



## Jerry64 (Apr 20, 2010)

It will never run the way a Pontiac used to run on today's fuel at the pump and if you take short cuts. Do it right the first time and you will be happier with the results........JB.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Well... I think I'm going to attempt to rebuild it myself. I just ordered this book through Amazon.com 




So... Where's the best place to purchase a rebuild kit?


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Try the author of the book at Cliff's Q-jet's.

Cliffs High Performance Quadrajets :: Qjet Carburetor Rebuild Kits, Parts, Bushing Kits, Carb Tuning 

:cheers


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Well damn... I just did a search for my carburetor number, 7028269 and found out it's a 1968 from a 350 motor and manual transmission.

Dang... will this cause problems if its on a 400 motor with a turbo 400 transmission??


----------



## Richard Boneske (Jul 29, 2008)

No, it won't cause problems. The jets and metering rods may be a bit off size, but the flow rate, linkage connections, fuel line hookup, vacuum connections, will all be the same as the right carb from your car. Follow Cliff's advice and you won't be sorry. You will also have the satisfaction of having done it yourself--and you'll learn a lot about your car.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

The rebuild kit arrived today. I dunno if I'm up for this task.


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Do it and like it! My Grandma assembled Carbs for the Govn't during WWII ! True! seriously, it isn't as hard as it looks and Cliff Ruggles is a cool dude....you can talk to him on the PY forum. give it a shot. Eric


----------



## Jeff's Classics (Feb 24, 2010)

Yes, go for it! It looks intimidating, but just take your time and be organized as you disassemble, take notes and pictures if you need to.
The only thing that is tricky is if you need to re-bush the throttle plate, but even that isn't too bad if you have the right tools and parts.
Post here if you have questions, we'll try to help.
Jeff


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I keep flip flopping my mind on this. I called down to a local shop that two people have recommended. He'll charge me $160 for the labor if I provide all the parts. Does that sound reasonable?

One concern I have is that I won't be able to clean it well enough. I don't have a compressor or a tub to soak it in for a proper cleaning. Yes... I'm making excuses.... I'm really paranoid that I'll **** it up and then won't be able to drive my car.









I think while he's working on the carb I'll redo the valve cover gaskets and put in the new fuel pump.


----------



## Jeff's Classics (Feb 24, 2010)

PisnNapalm said:


> I keep flip flopping my mind on this. I called down to a local shop that two people have recommended. He'll charge me $160 for the labor if I provide all the parts. Does that sound reasonable?
> 
> One concern I have is that I won't be able to clean it well enough. I don't have a compressor or a tub to soak it in for a proper cleaning. Yes... I'm making excuses.... I'm really paranoid that I'll **** it up and then won't be able to drive my car.
> 
> ...


Understandable...especially if you haven't done a carburetor before. The price seems reasonable to me, but do you know anyone nearby (club member, etc) that could come over and talk you through it? It really isn't that bad, I think if you did once...well, ya know, teach a man to fish and all that stuff. You don't really need compressed air or a soaker to clean it. I don't like fully soaking the carb because it ruins the finish and I think there are actually some parts on the QJet that will be ruined, but I can't recall without checking a book.
Anyway...$160 isn't bad if the guy knows what he's doing. Ask him if that includes rebushing the throttle shaft. If so, I'd go for it, you probably don't want to tackle that on your first rebuild.
Good luck!
Jeff


----------



## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Being off a 350, it may be jetted leaner than a 400 needs.
I wouldn't do a rebuild without compressed air to clean all the passages, but carb cleaner and a straw could get it done if nothing is clogged.
You can try the rebuild yourself first, and if it doesn't work, then take it to the shop and have it done. All the float heights and settings should be fine as long as the carb hasn't been mollested before. Take pics of the linkages before dissassembly so you'll know how it goes back together.
$160 for a carb rebuild sounds steep unless the guy is really that good. Is that taking the car or carb to them?
Here's a place that does complete carb reman for $240, but they refund $40 for your core, and this is a complete quality redo, check it out. Sounds like a good deal. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CART...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Good luck.


----------



## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

This guy has a good reputation on the PY forum, might be safer bet:

THE CARBURETOR SHOP

Rick


----------



## BillGTO (Oct 16, 2009)

You might log onto Spotts Performance and get info. Paul will rebuild a Q-jet cheaply, and will also rebuild you distributor. Check into this. If your in the Philly area, he is in Hatfield.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Well....I now have a new Holley carb on the engine. The engine starts on the first crank and runs much better now. I will probably send the old Q-jet out for a rebuild when my turn comes up at Cliff's HP, but for now... It's running good and strong. Wish I'd have done this sooner.


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

Whoa.... The engine is making some serious torque now.

I pulled up behind a late 90's Mustang GT. He had a loud exhaust, so I bumped my throttle a bit to make some noise. He looked back in his mirror and then twisted around to get a better look. 

When the light changed he took off and I followed. He did not get away from me at all. I let off the gas when I reached five over the speed limit (50mph). I have a CDL and do not need the hassle of a ticket. 

But... It was definitely fun!


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

PisnNapalm said:


> Well....I now have a new Holley carb on the engine. The engine starts on the first crank and runs much better now. I will probably send the old Q-jet out for a rebuild when my turn comes up at Cliff's HP, but for now... It's running good and strong. Wish I'd have done this sooner.


This is one 'o them 'thangs' where you'll get opinions all over the map based on folks' personal biases. Some will recoil in horror at you running a Holley where a QJet used to live and will tell you (correctly) that a QJet can run just as good if not better, up to the limit of how much air it can pass. Others are just as passionate about their love of Holleys (or other brands) and their disdain for QJets. 

The real answer is what works for you and puts the biggest smile on your face when you jump onto the loud pedal.

Welcome to the club 

Bear


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

So far I'm very pleased. It starts on the first crank and doesn't bog down at all when ya mash the "loud pedal".

I will have the old Qjet rebuilt. I just don't want to wait 5 months to drive it. It was draining all the gas from the bowl into the engine when it sat.


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

PisnNapalm said:


> I will have the old Qjet rebuilt. I just don't want to wait 5 months to drive it. It was draining all the gas from the bowl into the engine when it sat.


Dunno if you enjoy such things or not, but if you do, now that you don't "need" the QJet to be able to enjoy the car, you might consider rebuilding it yourself. Cliff's book is a good guide and as long as you're careful (don't 'force' any parts that aren't coming apart/going together like you think they should.) there's nothing you can do to really permanently damage the QJet. Cliff's pretty good about responding to email with hints and suggestions, and also can provide good parts. I've rebuilt a lot of them myself over the years, so I didn't hesitate to go through the carb and even modify it some for the GTO I'm building now even though this QJet is one of the extremely rare and very expensive (when you can find one) 455 SuperDuty units. My car's not on the road yet (hopefully by next summer!) but I'm very happy with the dyno results and with the way it responds when I blip the throttle.

Fun stuff...

Bear


----------



## PisnNapalm (Aug 28, 2010)

I do have Cliff's book and if it needed a mild rebuild, I'd tackle it myself. It does need the throttle shaft bushing as well as the bottom plugs taken care of. I've read about how he does the rebuild and decided that's how I want it done.

For now... This'll do.


----------



## jholodniuk (Nov 29, 2010)

What kind of mods are needed to fit a Qjet carb off a 77 GMC onto my 400? 
Is it easy to do? Or am I better off selling it and putting on a different carb. I honestly didn't know it wouldn't work until I read this thread. Is it a 750cfm even? Is it not worth using? The guy just gave it to me when I bought this motor. My intentions were to run a demon 750 or edelbrock 750 and just sell this carb I got if it was not useable. By the sounds of it the Qjet's are great carbs and maybe I should make this one work, or find a Pontiac one and rebuild it? 
I also have 2 marine Holley carbs kicking around, I will check on their sizes tomorrow. 

Car has 98cc heads (I know to low of compression, 7.9:1, but will work with a 461 in the near future), 2.11/1.77 valves, TRW 0.030 forged pistons and so far Pontiac 4bbrl intake. Are the original torker intakes any good? Torker II better? Performer or Performer RPM better? What is recommended? TQ is a 2800 stall. Lunati 00071 cam (Bracket Master II; Camshaft; Hyd.Flat Tappet; RPM 1800-5800; Adv.Dur. 292 Int./ Exh.; Valve Lift .490 Int./Exh.; Lobe Angle 110 Deg). 
Kinda a highjack on this thread, but thought another question about carbs will only add to the great info I've already read here.


----------



## Jeff's Classics (Feb 24, 2010)

jholodniuk said:


> What kind of mods are needed to fit a Qjet carb off a 77 GMC onto my 400?
> Is it easy to do? Or am I better off selling it and putting on a different carb. I honestly didn't know it wouldn't work until I read this thread. Is it a 750cfm even? Is it not worth using? The guy just gave it to me when I bought this motor. My intentions were to run a demon 750 or edelbrock 750 and just sell this carb I got if it was not useable. By the sounds of it the Qjet's are great carbs and maybe I should make this one work, or find a Pontiac one and rebuild it?


The big-block truck Qjets around that time were 850 CFM and had a front fuel inlet, same as the Pontiac QJet. It should physically fit, though the choke pull-off may be different and you may have to fix up the throttle linkage a little. If it's from a small block engine it will have a side inlet, 750 CFM, and probably too much trouble to be worth using.

I've had good luck with the Speed Demon series carbs, but they are not as efficient as a QJet, and I definitely plan to try rebuilding the QJet currently on my '68 GTO. It has a dead accelerator pump and seems to be leaking fuel into the intake, both problems I know how to fix.

Jeff


----------

