# longtube/shorty headers,what's difference?



## 7moon12 (Oct 1, 2007)

i have a stock '04/A4 and would like to improve the flow/sound over the stock exhaust. my plans are to get a cai(probably aem),coated headers(probably pacesetter because of warranty),resonator delete(add h-pipe), flowmaster super 44's and then get a good tune sometime after that. my confusion is the headers...i keep reading about long tube versions, mid-pipes, hi-flow cat's and all this other jazz-which is confusing the crap outta me...so...
1...if i go with pacesetter headers, does that mean i have to buy midpipes to 
to connect 'em to the stock cat's ???
2...with my set-up mentioned above, would better flowing cat's make much
of a difference ??? all the better flowing cat's i see on ebay all seem to 
be off road use only. 

thanks for the help as always guys !!!


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## SnKGoat (Nov 21, 2006)

I have an 04 /m6 with a borla catback. Long tubes will give you more horses, and a deeper more chambered rumble. Shorties will give you a bit more torque and a tighter rippier sound. High flow cats are exactly what they say....your cats are filters. High flows have better air flow thru them. If you go with Long tubes I know for sure you have to replace your midpipes. I dont know about shorties, but I dont think you have to replace your mids for those.


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## cncmasterofor (Jan 19, 2008)

Long tube will give you better flow. You'll want to go long tube if your thinking of supercharging, cam, heads, ect. You will have to replace the mid pipes with those.
Short tube just replaces your stock exhaust manifolds. And bolts right up to your stock mids. I have JBA shorties and have no problems. Their also much easier to install and are 50 state legal.
From my understanding moving the locations of the cats is illegal. And that's what long tube headers do. Guess it depends on your state and local laws.


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## Relaxed_Max (Jul 22, 2010)

cncmasterofor said:


> Long tube will give you better flow. You'll want to go long tube if your thinking of supercharging, cam, heads, ect. You will have to replace the mid pipes with those.
> Short tube just replaces your stock exhaust manifolds. And bolts right up to your stock mids. I have JBA shorties and have no problems. Their also much easier to install and are 50 state legal.
> From my understanding moving the locations of the cats is illegal. And that's what long tube headers do. Guess it depends on your state and local laws.


you dont have to replace the mids if your getting high flow cats with your long tube headers right since those take care of that right?


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## 04torridm6 (Oct 25, 2008)

If you do longtube headers you WILL have to replace your mid pipe with the mid pipe that matches your header....Now you said you wanted pacesetter with catted mids?....pacesetter sells only offroead mids no cats....I have heard that guys have added cats to the pacesetter mids.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

Well shorty's VS Longtubes. The disadvantage goes to the shorties as they only have 1 5/8 inch tubes. I wold like to see a set of 1 3/4 shorites. I cant see how Longtubes would make such a difference with all the S bends in the exhaust system. I would be willing to bet if a custom exhaust with out that S bend at the flange/resonator would make more power over all-----Danfig


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## GuatoLT1 (Jul 22, 2009)

Moving the place of your cats is illegal in all states. From my understanding in most states long tube headers are illegal except for track use. And yes you have to replace you mids when installing long tubes, cause there about 18 inches longer or more and have a 3 inch collector. Go with pacesetter and get them jet hot coated otherwise they will rust. Marylandspeed.com sells a set of longtubes with O2 sensor extensions and mid pipes for like $670. Thats the way to go


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## 04torridm6 (Oct 25, 2008)

Danfig-Longtubes have the S bends and such to give each of the primaries equal lenth going into the collector. I am not exactly 100% sure but thought I saw it was because of how the exhaust flow and backpressure in each primary has to be equaled out to produce optimal power gains or some stuff like that.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

Im not talking about the headers I think your refering to equal length headers I know about all that stuff from my mustang days and doing header swaps. Im talking about the exhaust after the headers with all the bends. The straighter the exhaust the better the flow. That what I was always told. That is why I think if the shorty header were made in 1 3/4 in and a custom exhaust was made to eliminate the bends. I think they would compair to long tube. I think the long tubes increase power but not by much compared to Shorties. I would like to see a comparison though because if its only a 10 horsepower difference I think for how easy shorties are to install I would go witht the shorties----Danfigg


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Spend money on what you're comfortable with, then find out for yourself. Shorty's are fine for bolt-on people, but if you want to do heads, add cubes or boost, then you need LTs. A lot has to do with primary size, primary length, and the merge collector.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

Ok did a search and found some dyno tune comparisons and found that the advantage seems to go to the long tubes but the shorty's dont have the same size primary's and collectors and of course the most important thing, the long tubes are tested with a Tune.The shorty's are a bolt on and dont seem to need a tune so I would have to say there is alot of unfair advantages to the Long tubes. So I think to key here is to not assume that every bolt on will increase horsepower it may just move the power curve around making it look as if a horsepower increase has occurred. The best way is at the track and not a dyno. Low end torque gets you moving but high end horsepower must also account for something as well. -----Danfigg


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

We talked about LT's vs Shorties so many times on this forum its not even funny. I reached my HP goals with shorties and stock crappy mids putting down the neigborhood of 500rwhp. Would I go LT? Yes in a heartbeat but due to CARB regulations I'm not going to. Yes the car maybe getting held back some thru the powerband but I've reached my goals of passing smog, mpg and power.

I'm also tired of seeing take it to the track, that has many variables too, also not everybody into drag racing.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Let us also forget that track prep is usually crap, I've seen guys spin up through 3rd who'd normally not on plain asphalt.


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## roy (Jun 1, 2010)

*type/brand?*

GM4life: What brand of shorties are you using?
Do they actually bolt to the stock GTO pipes? (for a while anyway)
I'm going shorties simply because its a much easier bolt on.
i;ve run both S.T & L.T. on many, many engines & for me, running on a weekend street car anyway, i go with shorties for ease of install & lack of any kind of mantinence at all, like wacking them L.T's on a bump at the mall!
thanks in advance GM.


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## LEDFOOT (Jan 8, 2011)

What are the best long tubes for a LS2?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

roy said:


> GM4life: What brand of shorties are you using?
> Do they actually bolt to the stock GTO pipes? (for a while anyway)
> I'm going shorties simply because its a much easier bolt on.
> i;ve run both S.T & L.T. on many, many engines & for me, running on a weekend street car anyway, i go with shorties for ease of install & lack of any kind of mantinence at all, like wacking them L.T's on a bump at the mall!
> thanks in advance GM.


I'm using JBA shorties. Yes they bolt stright to the stock mids.


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## ASmittie (Mar 23, 2011)

SnKGoat said:


> I have an 04 /m6 with a borla catback...
> 
> your borla, is it dual exit or left side only? i'm in search of a dual exit and will have to concede to a custom setup using borla muffler


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## pctek (Jul 18, 2010)

GM4life said:


> I'm using JBA shorties. Yes they bolt stright to the stock mids.


I live her ein cali too in santa maria and im not going with long tubes either, so with the shortys will I gain power, sound at all with my current stock exhaust on my 05 a4 goat? Ohh the only mod i did was remove res and put in magnflow xpipe. Thanks


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

pctek said:


> I live her ein cali too in santa maria and im not going with long tubes either, so with the shortys will I gain power, sound at all with my current stock exhaust on my 05 a4 goat? Ohh the only mod i did was remove res and put in magnflow xpipe. Thanks


You won't notice the increase. You will get the biggest increas when combined with midpipes.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Here is ther conclusions from the research I've done.

Shorties - easy install, emissions legal, minor exhaust change in sound/loudness, bolt to stock mids but benifit much from aftermarket mids, nice power for low/mid but drop off at the top end

LTs - harder install, not emissions legal, much louder exhaust, typically need aftermarket mids, more HP gains, especially at the top end

I would do a tune with either setup. Make sure they are coated to help with heak soak.


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