# Lowered car now header scraps the pavement



## cristn00 (Mar 9, 2013)

I recently installed Wilwood brakes on my 1966 GTO including their 2" drop spindles. Now the passenger side header (Hooker) scraps the ground when I go over a slight rise and fall in the road. Even worse when when I have someone in the passenger seat. Replaced the flanges to improve the clearance but still happens. Should also mention the car has a Pontiac 455 engine with 6x heads.
The header on the passenger side is a couple inches lower than the driver side and exhaust pipe has to bend up to get tight to bottom of the car, perhaps to provide necessary header clearance for servicing the oil filter.
Some folks recommending I swap out the Hookers with RAM II type headers to get the exhaust pipes up tight.

Thanks!!
View attachment 141905


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

How old are your front springs? And are they the right springs for the setup? If you put 2" drop spindles in, that spec would be based on a stock height car. So... If your front springs are old or if you have a 455 and accessories in a car which originally had a smaller engine, then you could already have 2" of sag, before you ever installed the drop spindles.


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## cristn00 (Mar 9, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> How old are your front springs? And are they the right springs for the setup? If you put 2" drop spindles in, that spec would be based on a stock height car. So... If your front springs are old or if you have a 455 and accessories in a car which originally had a smaller engine, then you could already have 2" of sag, before you ever installed the drop spindles.


W replaced the front springs while replacing the spindles (like for like), original engine was a 326 ci.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Then you should be close. I dont think a 455 is much heavier than a 326. Any unusually heavy accessories? Does it have air and did you get air springs?

At the end of the day, headers often scrape on cars, which aren't even lowered. Unless there was an oversight (like I mentioned), then it sounds like RA manifolds or shorty's might be required. BTW, my 67 is not lowered. In fact, I set my cars high. You may want to consult with @ylwgto on this. He just lowered his.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

One reason not to drop a car. Headers hang lower than stock pipes by design. Get a set of Ram Air cast iron exhaust manifolds and pipes. Have a muffler shop install the system to get it up tight.

Did you install new control arm rubber bump stops? This may help to limit A-arm travel so you don't bottom out. Stiffer springs with a higher spring rate may help, but you will most likely lose some ride quality.

Had scraping on my '68 Lemans when I made up my own 3" head pipes. I used a set of racing 70/30 shocks that took care of bottoming out on bumps. These shocks allow the car to rise more easily than stock, and then settle much slower. So anytime I hit a bump, the front end would rise, but would not slam back down and bottom as it takes more pressure to compress them and thus, they settle slower and would not scrape my pipes. BUT, my car was not dropped 2" so this may be of help once you ditch the


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Another option Headman makes a shorty header that would work


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

I had clearance issues for headers on a 67 with stock suspension that was still riding at stock height more or less. There's just not much room for changes like that on these cars. I have some reproduction Ram Air manifolds now, and I love not cringing at the scrape of metal on pavement! I don't think I gave up much flow, especially since my lower header tubes were getting smashed smaller with each impact on the ground.


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

I just lowered my 66 with UMI 1" drop springs (not spindles) and ride height is great, no header issues with my Hedmann long tubes. I've not ever used drop spindles or done a 2" front drop, but here are a few thoughts:

Army is right, drop spindles are designed to retain stock height springs. So if you swapped springs to anything other than stock or you reused your old, original stockers you may have ended up with more than an effective 2" drop. With Pontiacs I don't believe there is significant weight difference from 326-455 blocks unless aluminum heads, intake etc. come into play.

If you have old and tired shocks, or weak ones, your spring travel will be less controlled. I reluctantly barfed out $600 for Hotchkiss shocks (by Fox) and they are AMAZING. Nice and tight, but compliant, with no bobbing or large dipping at all.

If your wheel/tire combo has a smaller overall diameter than stock (which is I think 235,70,14 for a 27"-ish diameter??), your front will be lower. I run 255/45/17 in the front for a diameter of 26", which means just from tire size my car is 1/2" lower than stock

If you changed your control arms in the front, many of those are designed with drop spring pockets...I almost bought the wrong set by overlooking this hidden detail and would have had the same issues you are having.

Post a pic of your headers under your car...maybe the collectors are just too low and you need to swap headers to resolve it. here's a pic of my clearance.


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## cristn00 (Mar 9, 2013)

ylwgto said:


> I just lowered my 66 with UMI 1" drop springs (not spindles) and ride height is great, no header issues with my Hedmann long tubes. I've not ever used drop spindles or done a 2" front drop, but here are a few thoughts:
> 
> Army is right, drop spindles are designed to retain stock height springs. So if you swapped springs to anything other than stock or you reused your old, original stockers you may have ended up with more than an effective 2" drop. With Pontiacs I don't believe there is significant weight difference from 326-455 blocks unless aluminum heads, intake etc. come into play.
> 
> ...


I have attached two photos, one of passenger side and one driver side, the driver side comes right off the collector and straight back nice and tight to bottom of car and never scrapes bottom, the passenger side, on the other hand, the header and collector is a couple inches lower than driver side and the exhaust pipe has to then bend up to get tight to the bottom of the car. 

I kept the lower control arms but replaced top with SPC fully adjustable in order to get wheel alignment correct

Tires are 225/45-17 which probably added another 1/2 inch drop

New MOOG replacement coil springs

It sounds like either ram or hedman shorties may be my best bet

Here are the two pictures;


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

That does look quite low on that one side.

Just read that the modern equivalent for stock 66 tires is 205/75/14. Your tire size (according to this Tire Size Comparison) is a full 1" smaller in overall diameter than stock, so you are getting an additional 1/2" drop from tire/rim size alone.

Unless you wanna tinker with the suspension you just installed, probably best to replace the headers.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Or, since you'll be wasting these headers anyway, just go in and out of the driveway until it stops making noise.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

But seriously, you have a very custom setup and it might take several tweaks. I like Jims shock idea, but your collector is simply too low. I would get some Headman shorties. I've ran them and love them. It's interesting that the corvette guys *INSIST* on long tubes (OR THEY KICK YOU OUT OF THE CLUB), but the GTO guys like stock manifolds


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## cristn00 (Mar 9, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> But seriously, you have a very custom setup and it might take several tweaks. I like Jims shock idea, but your collector is simply too low. I would get some Headman shorties. I've ran them and love them. It's interesting that the corvette guys *INSIST* on long tubes (OR THEY KICK YOU OUT OF THE CLUB), but the GTO guys like stock manifolds


What are your thoughts regarding ram air? Pontiac Jim and a few others recommend them. Trying to decide between the headman or the ram air now, looks like both would work


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

cristn00 said:


> What are your thoughts regarding ram air? Pontiac Jim and a few others recommend them. Trying to decide between the headman or the ram air now, looks like both would work


I never used factory RA manifolds, but the guys here LOVE them. That's why I thought it was odd. Corvette guys won't even talk to you unless you run long tubes. 

I'm going through something similar. I can't get my GTO to sound tough. Its my 3rd 67 and all before it, sounded like the hammers of Hell. I've swapped muffflers 3 times... It's still so QUIET! I have an x pipe on it, so I suspect that is what's quieting it down... but everyone says to keep the X.... And that they don't quiet it down. Too many opinions. You gotta just try it and see if you like it.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I never used factory RA manifolds, but the guys here LOVE them. That's why I thought it was odd. Corvette guys won't even talk to you unless you run long tubes.
> 
> I'm going through something similar. I can't get my GTO to sound tough. Its my 3rd 67 and all before it, sounded like the hammers of Hell. I've swapped muffflers 3 times... It's still so QUIET! I have an x pipe on it, so I suspect that is what's quieting it down... but everyone says to keep the X.... And that they don't quiet it down. Too many opinions. You gotta just try it and see if you like it.


 All my old chevys had exhaust logs. Anything would be better even blackjack headers that you had to "dimple" more like flatted to get them to work. The Murcury guys love Dougs headers. I dont want to tighten header bolts everytime I drive. One of the first 67s I looked at had all the mods. It was a flip but the header already leaked and already lost a bolt. 

My friend if you want noise. Lets put in some cutouts. They have come along way since the JCWhitney cast iron cable jobs.


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

cristn00 said:


> What are your thoughts regarding ram air? Pontiac Jim and a few others recommend them. Trying to decide between the headman or the ram air now, looks like both would work


Ram air restoration oversized reproduction exhaust manifolds are great. I’ve read that Covid put him behind on orders last year, so if you decide t order, I suggest you call and ask how long it may take to get your order. I’m one of those Pontiac guys that think these are the best way to go😁


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> All my old chevys had exhaust logs. Anything would be better even blackjack headers that you had to "dimple" more like flatted to get them to work. The Murcury guys love Dougs headers. I dont want to tighten header bolts everytime I drive. One of the first 67s I looked at had all the mods. It was a flip but the header already leaked and already lost a bolt.
> 
> My friend if you want noise. Lets put in some cutouts. They have come along way since the JCWhitney cast iron cable jobs.


Gonna try ONE MORE set of mufflers... Then ditch the x-pipe if they don't work, then look for a squirrel in my tailpipes if that doesnt work.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

michaelfind said:


> Ram air restoration oversized reproduction exhaust manifolds are great. I’ve read that Covid put him behind on orders last year, so if you decide t order, I suggest you call and ask how long it may take to get your order. I’m one of those Pontiac guys that think these are the best way to go😁


I never regretted them on my vette


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

My second favorite car the C3 love them things. The H pipe army will give a deeper tone. Yes I run the shorties on my 72 love them, No leaks no burned out starters


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## cristn00 (Mar 9, 2013)

Thanks for all the help here, gonna check with the guys at Ram Air Restoration Monday, Ames has them too but RARE looks like superior product.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

pontrc said:


> My second favorite car the C3 love them things. The H pipe army will give a deeper tone. Yes I run the shorties on my 72 love them, No leaks no burned out starters


I adored my C3. Can only fit one car in the garage though... Yeah the GTO sounds great at idle, at the tail pipe, nice rumble, but it just has no muscle car beef to it. I had the 2nd loudest, straight through, Pypes mufflers on it, and now Cherry Bombs... You can carry on a conversation at 75 MPH. Lol... I have a set of 2 chamber Flowmasters to try, then I guess Im just accepting it all. They say that the x pipe makes a lot more usable power, so I hate to ditch it.

I will say that for as quiet as it is, everyone says that it sounds bad as Hell going down the road. Ironically, that's how it should be


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## SLSTEVE (Dec 8, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I never used factory RA manifolds, but the guys here LOVE them. That's why I thought it was odd. Corvette guys won't even talk to you unless you run long tubes.
> 
> I'm going through something similar. I can't get my GTO to sound tough. Its my 3rd 67 and all before it, sounded like the hammers of Hell. I've swapped muffflers 3 times... It's still so QUIET! I have an x pipe on it, so I suspect that is what's quieting it down... but everyone says to keep the X.... And that they don't quiet it down. Too many opinions. You gotta just try it and see if you like it.


Hey Army,
You ever tried V Force mufflers? Had them on my Olds race car-3” inlet, 2.5” outlet. Sounded great!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

SLSTEVE said:


> Hey Army,
> You ever tried V Force mufflers? Had them on my Olds race car-3” inlet, 2.5” outlet. Sounded great!


No... But that's just it... My last 67 had Cherry Bombs on it and that car woke the dead. My 270HP C3 Vette has the same mufflers, and it sounds like Satans Minions. So... I put them on my 450HP GTO, and it sounds like My Little Pony.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

That's why I swear it's the xpipe! 

The Pypes mufflers that I had on it, everyone swears that they're too offensive. They sounded like a hair dryer.


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## Dave 68 (Nov 18, 2018)

Have you thought about raising the motor a little with motor mount spacers?


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I adored my C3. Can only fit one car in the garage though... Yeah the GTO sounds great at idle, at the tail pipe, nice rumble, but it just has no muscle car beef to it. I had the 2nd loudest, straight through, Pypes mufflers on it, and now Cherry Bombs... You can carry on a conversation at 75 MPH. Lol... I have a set of 2 chamber Flowmasters to try, then I guess Im just accepting it all. They say that the x pipe makes a lot more usable power, so I hate to ditch it.
> 
> I will say that for as quiet as it is, everyone says that it sounds bad as Hell going down the road. Ironically, that's how it should be


Hey Army,
The best way to know what your car is sounding like is to have someone else drive it as you stand on side the road and listen. Being inside the car doesn't give you the "true" sound nature of your exhaust since it will tend to "muffle" (forgive the pun) what it truly sounds like.


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Cristn,
While I don't know what your motor set up is or how it is built, but if you run the majority of your RPM range less than 5K then the RA manifolds would be a better fit for your usage. If you decide to go that route, doing a gasket match, just like on the intake side will benefit and add either an X pipe of H pipe to your system. Those will also help in scavenging exhaust gases out.


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