# How can anyone possibly pick another coupe over a gto?



## GibsonUSA (Jan 8, 2006)

How does thing thing only sell 11,000 a year? Seriously. Is there something I don't know about it? Does the explosive acceleration lead to bllindness or something?

"Test drive it and you're in love" is one of the mottos here, and it's absolutely true. I own a 2000 Acura and am very attached to it, and care for it well, so its very hard for me to part with it. I test drove a Charger, Mustang, and new RSX and was like "nah." I test drove a GTO and was completely blown away.

How can someone choose another $30,000 coupe over this? It's incredible! I mean, I can see if someone wants an SUV instead, or is going for luxury so buys a Lexus sedan instead. But....how can someone buy....say, an RX-8 over this?? Or a 350Z?? The GTO completely annihilates them! You have $30,000......why not get a Goat?? You open the hood and there's this gigantic thing they somehow managed to fit in there. Who cares about that Mazda rotary stuff?

Again, is there something I don't know? That the test drives didnt tell me?
Is there some way, by some stretch of the imagination, that the RX-8 and (regular) Mustang are superior to 400 hp LS2? Seriously, now.






(as you can tell, you have a new believer on this board lol)


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## raven1124 (Sep 23, 2005)

Poor advertising and bland styling killed this machine. I’m happy with mine and that’s all that matters.


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## Clueless (Mar 2, 2006)

I've heard a few times about there being a limit on how many GTOs could have been imported due to some regulation or union thing or whatever. It is a figure higher than the # of goats sold a year, but lower than 20k. 

That said, a person still has to wonder about the number of these cars sold a year. Poor advertising seems to be one, and perhaps that the car is not distinctive looking enough--there are plenty of tales of GTOs getting mistaken for Grand Ams, G6s, etc. 

I can guess that some people choosing other coupes perhaps want higher gas mileage (many people linger under the antiquated stereotype that muscle car must equal single digit gas mileage--though often these same people will drive vehicles with no better mileage, like a full sized truck or some turbo 4s). There also seem to be people who want cars with Japanese manufacturer names only, regardless if their Honda/Nissan/whatever is actually built int the US, and neglecting that the GTO is an import in its own right (though not Japanese).

There seem to be a lot of people who buy cars to some extent on an impulse--ie, they want to buy a car, so they go wandering the lots until they find something "cute" or "cool" or that otherwise snags them, without doing as much homework as most the people on this board (and other auto boards in general) probably do.

I imagine that insurance plays a part too, for some people at least.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

The styling turned a lot of people off. I walked into work the other day with a gal, and she said "I heard you got a new GTO! When my husband heard they were coming back, he couldn't wait to get one!" I asked if they did buy one, because I hadn't seen it at work, and she replied that after her husband saw it, he didn't want it. I'm sure he was looking for something more retro/muscle car styled.

I think GM did about the best they could (especially starting in '05) using an existing platform and converting it to a Pontiac style. That said, it amazes me that they put the effort into the hood, the LS2, dual exhaust, etc. for '05 and then totally dumped the advertising. 

I would try to crawl in the General's head to figure that out, but it's too scary a place for me.


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## Jeffs386 (Nov 1, 2005)

just remember this is the same country that elected Dubya!!!!!


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## tkd0706 (Jan 31, 2006)

Jeffs386 said:


> just remember this is the same country that elected Dubya!!!!!



True. I can understand buying an RX-8 if you are an autocrosser and what to dominate in B Stock class. I can understand buying a 350Z if say your first sports car was an old Datsun Z, or if you like the styling (it does look nice). SO people buy cars for more than just the straight line G factor.


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## raven1124 (Sep 23, 2005)

Jeffs386 said:


> just remember this is the same country that elected Dubya!!!!!


And Bill Clinton, but let's not get political. It's just a big roller coasterthat never ends.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

raven1124 said:


> Poor advertising and bland styling killed this machine. I’m happy with mine and that’s all that matters.


I'm one of many who love the styling of this car. I don't care for styling that draws too much attention. I think it has just enough not to look ugly and just enough to look nice but in a subtle way. And as they say, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Hell I even remember someone saying that ET was cute. Now that beauty was definitely in the eye of the beholder because ET was as ugly as stir fried sh!t.


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## raven1124 (Sep 23, 2005)

Oh, I totally agree with you. I LOVE the way it looks, but you know how some people are, poking fun at it's style and such.


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## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> I'm one of many that loves the styling of this car. I don't care for styling that draws too much attention. I think it has just enough not to look ugly and just enough to look nice but in a subtle way.


:agree 



I used to like the new Mustage style but you can't walk to your neibhors house with out almost getting run over by one. I'M SICK OF SEEING STANGS everywhere!

I just look out the window at my pet Goat and smile


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## CrabhartLSX (Feb 12, 2006)

I didn't like the GTO's styling when it came out either. I was just thinking, what? that's it? After the WS6's the 04 goat with its flat, Z28 camaro-like hood, bland rear fascade, and ultra-conservative exterior layout was hard to get my head around. 

It grows on you though.


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## Kurt G. (Mar 27, 2006)

It was Thanksgiving 2003 when we asked our dealer to get us a GTO as quick as he could. We didn't care about color, transmission, etc. Just get one!
We finally got the first one in May 2004, black with auto trans. 6+ months to get it, and yes, they were looking everywhere, they just couldn't get us one... a mystery.

It was December 1 2004 when we asked our dealer to order us a 2005. We were picky this time, we wanted black again, but with the Tremec 6 spd.
We finally got the second one in June 2005. 6+ months again to get delivery, they didn't know why, we don't know why... 

You'd figure that with a slow seller you could pick one up easy off some dealer's lot! But we couldn't...

But the first month we had the '05, we couldn't even park at the grocery without attracting lots of attention and lots of questions. 

The cars were (and are) worthy of a stir. GM just didn't care enough to get them in the hands of folks like us, who would gladly have done all the sales work for them on HEB grocery parking lots! All they had to do was get us the cars! 

We've driven lots of 4 seater performance cars... I'm not sure any of them measure up to the GTO. Even the '04 is so much fun to drive, and all we've done is a little K&N induction and exhaust enhancement. 

But, it's all history now. (I'm looking for a good 2006 automatic to fill out the collection.)

 Later... Kurt G.


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

Well your comments are well thought and well said. 


That being said!!!!!

The GTO was never meant to be a high production high sales car gang. They originally only slotted roughly 20k from australlia in 04. Australia could not keep their side of the bargain and only produce 3/4 of their goal. That coupled with the rumor of the [email protected] coming in 05 prompted the only rear of lower than expected #'s for Pontiac. 

05 and 06 GTO's on the other hand meet every one of Pontiacs goals and generally surpass their goals. The last quater of 05 had GTO sales 140% above expectations. Keep in mind this is a national # and not a geographic statistic. 


The low production #'s coupled with the shoddy 04 sales have kept the "poor sales" stigma on our cars. But they sale amazingly well compared to other domestics and vehicles in its class.


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## Felix C. (May 18, 2005)

2004 GTO was not retro and retro was(is) in fashion. Initial reviews tainted this part of the perception among muscle car folks. Not only is the car unretro but very much an unusual body shape not associated with American high performance cars. 2004 GTO more Euro than USA. Body excitement is in thanks to Fast/Furious folks, Pimp folks, and well last gen F-body folks. Old school GTO owners added to the criticism. I recall watching HP TV in which one hoary and toothless 196X GTO owner was slamming the car as not being worthy of a GTO. Then, GTO was not faster than a Mach I and much less than a Cobra with a heftier price. Then add dealer gouging. Then add poor marketing. I only saw my first GTO commercial on TV when I brought my car home from the dealer in November 2004.(It was on CNN, I typically do not watch network TV) 

Whole first year was a dog's breakfast. Someone at GM should have been sacked. Maybe a lot of folks.

I do not recall complaints about the car being slow with the LS1 and so think the LS2 bit is hindsight. Anyone who purchases an LS1 equipped vehicle for performance would know considerable power is there for the taking. Besides if you wanted a GM V8 hi-perf car in 2004- it was Vette or GTO.


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## gto_lady04 (Jan 25, 2006)

I absolutely love the fact that there are so few of these cars.

Before we had the Goat we had a GTP and it looked like every other Grand Prix out there. Everywhere you looked there was another Grand Prix.

My husband and I own the only GTO within 30 miles of us and I like it that way. I also love to meet these cars when we're out, that has only happened once. But it was really great and we look forward to meeting more this summer cause I now know of a few more in a city about 40 miles from us.

But I still really am quite happy to have the only Goat in my hometown. I like to own unique cars.

Monica


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## Don (Sep 20, 2004)

The longer I have mine the better I like it. I think it looks very sleek ala Astin Martin sleek. I can't see myself in a Mustang especially a Saleen. They must have been designed by dudes on bad acid.


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## GTOtbird (Mar 4, 2006)

Until two weeks ago when I bought the GTO I was 20 plus year FMC only man. I do read mags, internet, and subscribe to auto newsletters but have not heard anything about the GTO for the last couple of years. Only because my Son-in-law who bought a G6 mentioned that he had looked at them but wasn't sure if he liked the style did I even know they were still being made. Don't think that the marketing reached many non-GM car owners like myself. Anyway I had terrible feelings going to visit a Pontiac Dealer. I did own an '86 Bonneville that had the EMC that would just kill the car driving down the highway and after it failed on my wife, my daughter, and then me it was traded in on a '86 Grand AM with the quad4 that to this day is still the wife's favorite car. Anyway, I've been driving a '03 then the 
'04 Mercury Marauder with 0% apr for the last 4 years but wanted something like my old Supercharged '96 Thunderbird. Two doors, 300+ hp, under $30k and even rented a Mustang for a week and didn't like it. A voice inside me kept saying, "It has 400hp with 400ft/lbs torque and a 3-year warranty so go test drive one." That was/is the challenge to get us non-gm types into the showroom to drive the car. Has this site done a poll as to how many owners are converts vs. already a GM owner?


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## tommycheng1728 (Nov 23, 2005)

GibsonUSA said:


> How does thing thing only sell 11,000 a year? Seriously. I lead to bllindness or something?
> 
> "Test one of the 2000 Acura and Mustang I was completely blown away.
> 
> ...


????


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## NT91 (Aug 30, 2005)

I too was a Ford man. I sold my 2003 Mach 1 for the 05 GTO.

I also had a 1992 SC T-Bird and wanted a car that was RWD sharp looking and fast. When saw the 04 GTO for the first time I new it was just the thing to fill the void of my 1992 SC T-Bird. I do still have a 1967 428 T-Bird that I love...and if Ford would bring back a 350 plus HP RWD 4 place Thunderbird I would buy it.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

1. Use of the GTO name immediately got people thinking retro when this was a modern car. Should have been sold as a Holden Monaro or Pontiac Monaro. Then people wouldn't have been whining over those stupid hood scoops in 2004.

2. The GTO name also kicked off this whole styling debate. I think this car looks beautiful. But somewhere along the line the press started yapping about its looks -- and haven't shut up about it ever since. GMNA's PR department should have grabbed Robert Cumberford by the eyelids and personally showed him how well this car was designed and built. How it has features like glass in frame windows that will last forever. But, no. They just sat around on their assess in the RenCen and did NOTHING to defend their product. And they should be fired for it.

3. 2004 sales were slow -- and that forever tainted the car. Two reasons for this:

A. The first was that a number of dealers killed off early enthusiasm for the car by charging $10K over sticker and $8K for the world cheapest set of wheels. So the bargain price of $32/33K was now pumped up to $50K. And thousands of people said NFW and never came back.

B. Failure of GMNA to properly position and market this car. This car was, and still is, a bargain priced BMW M3 or Mercedes AMG CLK. Does 90-95% of what those cars do -- and less than half the price. So how does GMNA sell it? With TV ads showing the car doing burnouts -- and literature that compares it to the Mustang. Stupid, stupid, stupid. So who does that attract? Kids who can't afford it -- and tootle off in their fart can Scion -- and folks who look at the Mustang's sticker and say "ooooh, it's cheaper" -- and ex-F-body drivers -- instead of folks who typically buy imports. Don't get me wrong -- there's nothing with ex-F-body drivers -- but GMNA needed to expand their market -- and failed miserably.

4. The trunk. Sounds like a small issue -- but the first time I showed my wife this car -- she took one look in the trunk and said forget it. I've talked to some other folks who said the same thing. If the gas tank stays in the same location -- sales of this car goes up.

5. The factory wheels. Both the 17s and 18s are flat and rather boring. Get some wheels with some dish on them -- and the styling of this car lights up. The surface sculpting immediately has more pop to it. Too bad this car didn't come with the wheels that the original Monaro had -- those nicely sculpted 5 spoke jobs. Would have made a big difference.

Oh, well. GMNA blew it. The day this car was cancelled I thought John Roberts and all the weasel talking marketing folks who failed to do their jobs should be fired. With all the GM layoffs today -- maybe my wish will come true.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

b_a_betterperson said:


> *1. Use of the GTO name immediately got people thinking retro when this was a modern car. Should have been sold as a Holden Monaro or Pontiac Monaro. Then people wouldn't have been whining over those stupid hood scoops in 2004.
> 
> 2. The GTO name also kicked off this whole styling debate. I think this car looks beautiful. But somewhere along the line the press started yapping about its looks -- and haven't shut up about it ever since. GMNA's PR department should have grabbed Robert Cumberford by the eyelids and personally showed him how well this car was designed and built. How it has features like glass in frame windows that will last forever. But, no. They just sat around on their assess in the RenCen and did NOTHING to defend their product. And they should be fired for it.*
> 
> ...


+1, and bolded for emphasis. 

'Twas the _P-P-_Pontiac badging / GTO naming debacle that made this car doomed from the start.

Oh well. I just know that I am the proud owner of the best GT value on the _planet._


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## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

I for one am GLAD GM blew it :lol: 

If they nailed it perfectly, I wouldn't have been able to afford it. Now I own a car that blows peoples minds, BECAUSE they don't know what it is :cool (happens every day) 


 :cheers


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## GTOtbird (Mar 4, 2006)

Another possible reason could be similar to the Mercury Marauder that I traded in on the '06 GTO. The division at Mercury benefited from the additional press and increased floor traffic just to see the Marauder. Although they didn't sell a lot of Marauders, the Grand Marquis saw an increase of some 18% and stopped the down ward sales trend. Also, a lot of press was generated talking about Mercury. The debate over the Pontiac/GTO badging at least got a lot of folks talking about Pontiac. As Mae West once said, "It's better to be looked over than over looked." The GTO surely got a good looking over.


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## fullarmor2 (Mar 1, 2006)

I think it is just lack of knowledge, plain and simple.
Most people I talk to do not have a clue as to how great this car is. Its too bad, but its awesome to be the only one in my town with a GTO. (At least it seems like that.) All I can say is I am glad I did my homework before I made a dicision! I remember when I was looking and doing research online, I was looking at really expensive sports cars, I mean 50,000 plus and even way higher, just dreaming, and noticed how many had a six speed manual for the V-8, and I remember thinking how great it would be to have that. And I thought it could not happen at the time. Just too much cost. AND THEN. I began looking at the GTO, could not believe my eyes, V-8 with a six speed for under 34K!!!!!!!! Continued reading about it, particularly reviews by people and was very impressed. Went to the dealer soon thereafter and the rest is history. I almost shed a tear typing this!


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## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

fullarmor2 said:


> I think it is just lack of knowledge, plain and simple.
> Most people I talk to do not have a clue as to how great this car is. Its too bad, but its awesome to be the only one in my town with a GTO. (At least it seems like that.) All I can say is I am glad I did my homework before I made a dicision! I remember when I was looking and doing research online, I was looking at really expensive sports cars, I mean 50,000 plus and even way higher, just dreaming, and noticed how many had a six speed manual for the V-8, and I remember thinking how great it would be to have that. And I thought it could not happen at the time. Just too much cost. AND THEN. I began looking at the GTO, could not believe my eyes, V-8 with a six speed for under 34K!!!!!!!! Continued reading about it, particularly reviews by people and was very impressed. Went to the dealer soon thereafter and the rest is history. I almost shed a tear typing this!


:agree 
arty: 


I was NOT seriously looking to buy a new car. Much less a $30k+ car. All the planets lined up, my truck just got payed off, I happened to have $5k to put down..... Many things... The first time I even remember seeing a GTO was about a month ago in the parking lot of my office. And it had the Plain hood on it (looked like it could have had a V6 :confused )

I googled the GTO and It all started.... EVERY time I drive it I am surprised  

Then I found out that the 2006 will be the last of them, only 40K have been made 04 to 06 (???) Someone check my numbers.... This is one of those cars that (I think) will become a collectors item. :cool


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