# How can you tell if the numbers match?



## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

I have recently come across this 1966 GTO for sale. The owner says its a numbers matching car. That sounds really cool but I have no idea what it means or how to verify this. Can someone help out the new guy?


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

This one is a "RANDY SPECIAL", he is good at this stuff. I can tell you that in 66 engine serial #'s were NOT stamped into the block. Wait for 05 GTO to reply.......good luck! Eric:cheers


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Eric Animal said:


> This one is a "RANDY SPECIAL", he is good at this stuff. I can tell you that in 66 engine serial #'s were NOT stamped into the block. Wait for 05 GTO to reply.......good luck! Eric:cheers


Thanks Eric, 

MichaelG,

If you post the codes from the Data Plate, Vin Tag, manifolds, front of engine block, rear of the block (on the distributor pad), heads (093 on center exhaust ports), carb, transmission and the rear end (some rears were not stamped) there are several guys on this forum that can tell you if the codes are correct for 66, Pictures would be good, the best information will come from PHS Automotive Services, Inc.


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks for the information. I will try to gather this and post it. The car is being offerd for $12000 it has been off the frame and the body appears to be solid. Looks like all it needs is the interior fixed and repainted. No miles since the frame off. Car has not been started in about 5 years. Worth it if numbers match?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Was the engine, transmission and rear end rebuilt five years ago as well?


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

Don't know what has been done mechanically at this point. I've seen the car and it looks clean enough to eat off underneath. It's current owner has owned it for 20+ years and just never did finish. Now he's just getting too old. He told me that the car has been started only a few times since the frame off. Still working on gathering more infromation but on the surface (no pun - ha) it looks like it at least worth investigating don't you think?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Some questions you should ask when you look at the car, most of this should have been completed when the body was off of the frame;

*New bushings (control arms and body)?
*New tie rods?
*New brakes?
*New ball joints?
*New springs?
*Rebuilt engine, transmission and rear end?
*Rebuilt carburetor(s)?
*New heater core?
*Underbody, firewall and frame painted?
*New radiator?
*New fuel and brake lines?
*New fuel tank?
*Body sealed and primed?
*Is car paint ready, blocked?

I know I'm missing a few things, If all of the above items are completed and the numbers match, $12K is a good deal.

Ask for these documents;

*Motor rebuild documents?
*PHS documents?

Good luck,


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

Thank you so much for the list of things to ask. Looks like I have some work to do. You have been extremely helpful in these first stages of "my first GTO" buying. Can't wait to find out more!


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

OK. Here is what I came up with so far:
Data Plate
11A 567 4
ST 6624217 BAL 1388
TR 223
CD


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

OOPS!
Sent that too soon. Here's some more:

VIN 242176108110
I got some numbers off the engine and trans but I really don't know if they are the right ones but here it goes anyway.
From the top of the intake just in front of the carb: 9799068
Rear of the block on the left sdie as you stand in front: 9790077
Front of the block: 40482
Head: 46
Carb: 7040562 XR
Trans.: 3857534 and 3925660

The owner says it's a 400 (but I'm not sure he even knows) which means to me that it's not matching???
Her's a picture. The off color on the hood in just a shadow.







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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mike, you need to dig some more. 46 heads are 1969 428 heads, and are not correct for a '66. I know because I have a pair. You need to get into the spec tables and deduct what you have.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

MichaelG said:


> OOPS!
> Sent that too soon. Here's some more:
> 
> VIN 242176108110 True GTO, missing a digit, should be 242176B108110
> ...


doesn't look like it's numbers matching, if the engine has an 8 bolt water pump it is a 68, 11 bolt will be a 69,


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

Man, you guys are on it!
Thanks again for the information.
So - based on this being a 68-70 engine. How much does it take away from the value?
Just as an FYI I am looking at this car for personal enjoyment not necessarily for resale/investment. Having said that, I don't want to get burned either.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Since the guy is trying to sell it as a numbers matching, and may have priced it accordingly, being that it's not will drop the price significantly. He either doesn't know what numbers matching means, or, he's trying to screw you over. I'm guessing the latter. If you can, you may want to post pics and a price. The guys around here could give you a ballpark price, or, how far off the price is that it's being sold at. If this guy is messin' with ya, I'm not sure I would want to buy it. What else isn't he telling you???


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

Yea it's hard to tell where he's coming from. I do feel like he's not telling some things. On the surface he appears to be a stand up guy but who knows? I am going to tell him what I came up with (thanks to you guys on this forum) and see how he responds. I am guessing he will not come off the price and pass it off to someone else who will take him at his word.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

There is a 66 tri-power listed on craigslist in your area for $10K, how much is he asking? , PM sent!


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## MichaelG (Sep 19, 2010)

He's asking 12K.


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## Bluesbrother (Oct 4, 2010)

I was also curious about the "numbers matching" ordeal...I have an early '67 built in Oct '66 that I am the second owner of. The car has NEVER been apart or anything changed on it and I have a strange block ID (documented with PHS too!!) of 181885. From the information I have gathered, the actual "serial numbers" of the "matching numbers" was not put into affect until mid '67, therefore on a '66 you would have to go by the date codes on the block, heads...ect. I was blessed to know the orginal owner of my car all my life, which makes it easier to verify for sure.


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