# Looking at a 1967 gto



## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

4 speed? automatic on the floor.
421 just rebuilt
fresh paint
interior is missing some pieces.


the car needs a few more parts installed to be running, which the owner has.
Hes a older gentleman and has given up on the car.

what should i ask him about?
how to i make sure it is not a clone?

what kind of brakes come stock on 67s?

im a previous c3 vette owner 
wanting something with a back seat


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> 4 speed? automatic on the floor.
> 421 just rebuilt
> fresh paint
> interior is missing some pieces.
> ...


Real GTO's have VIN's that begin with 242. There are many wb sites that explain how to decode the various Pontiac VIN and data tags, here's one.

There were two brake systems used in 67, 4-wheel drum, and optional front disc, rear drum.

If it really does have a 421, then it can't be the original engine. You can positively identify what it is using information from this site.

There are other sites with information too, and be aware that not all of them agree with each other especially when it comes to some of the more obscure cylinder head codes. It pays to check many sites to get a consensus, if you have doubts.

If it's an automatic and has the original tranny, then it will likely be a 3-speed Turbohydramatic 400. Very strong.

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Future Goat owner? said:


> 4 speed? automatic on the floor.
> 421 just rebuilt
> fresh paint
> interior is missing some pieces.
> ...


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

How much would a car like this go for


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

You need to post up pics of the body, and give location so we can give you an honest eval of what we would pay. A solid body with a 428 that is in nice shape non running would be at around $5K IMO, more or less.. Non original motor or dealer installed? Pay the least you can...


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

5k serious or a joke?
I don't even see beat gtos going for 5000


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I was talking a barn find car, nice body with an unknown engine, just complete. Well, I didn't know the condition. It's a nicer looking car than I thought. OK, nice car, wrong engine. So, it's a complete car.. What are the miles, how does it run, is it 242 vin code? Why did he give up on the car? Really nice GTOs go for high $20Ks. So, if that is a great car that is just sitting, $10K - $15K would be good?? What does he want for IT??
I had 3 78s and a 77 Vette, so had my share of C-3s..
I paid $7500 for a 66 Cloan that looked good in pics, and ended up in pieces and is with the body man now. Motor was a junk 389, 400 in it now.. Condition dictates value, how much do you have to rebuild???


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

242 vin means gto as someone else stated, right?
I would hope it's a true gto.
Car does not have the new radiator installed so it can't really run, which I would want to install and ensure the car runs before buying.
He's in his mid 60s and has diabetes.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

what is the gap in the front grill, passenger side?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

we only talked for 6-7minutes, sounded like it need 200-300$ more to be running driving aswell as the radiator installed.

Can anyone tell what its missing from the engine bay picture?
ac?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

first off the grilles are Tempest/Lemans, so i would immediately question whether it is a true GTO and not a clone project....almost done, as you would'nt swap Tempest grilles onto a GTO. still does not mean it cant be a nice car (clone) just means you will pay a lot less than a true GTO. that would explain the 421 swap from a 326. can't zoom in to see engine, send a higher res pic so we can zoom. the gap on the front is busted grille . are there gto badges on the car? what does the tail panel (back lights look like) ? a gto in that shape motor not running, the resto and body done right i would say 10-15K i have seen some really nice restorations in the mid 20s and not selling. if its a Tempest/Lemans your probably in the 5-8 range same conditions applying. If he had it running it would be more, use that to your advantage.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

well ****... thats not a good sign, atleast you told me first before i traveled many states away to check it out.

ill call him again tomorrow, see if he can send me some more pictures aswell...


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

If the grilles were missing, Lemans grills are cheaper, so maybe. Looks like a Megashifter in there. It is a cool looking car and the 428 adds to it. But, was it drag raced and beat up, what else does it need? I would look at it even if it is a Lemans, just don't pay GTO price.. Again, where app. is the car, Northern/desert?? I ask because it could be a dead original body or it could be a bondo buggy. I would ask for alot of pictures before I drove to it. Ask TMP, and check out his A-body link. I looked at that car for him, I couldn't get up on it, but from the road and it looked really good.. It was in FL, but was an Iowa car..


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> we only talked for 6-7minutes, sounded like it need 200-300$ more to be running driving aswell as the radiator installed.
> 
> Can anyone tell what its missing from the engine bay picture?
> ac?


A/C compressor is missing, that's what goes on the u-shaped bracket on the front passenger side of the engine. Also, that's not a GTO hood - no scoop. I supposed it's possible that this might be a GTO that's been wrecked in the front and has had the front clip replaced with Tempest/Lemans sheet metal, but I'd be wary. Ask the guy for the VIN.
However, even if it is "only" a Tempest/Lemans, if that's really a 421 as you said in your original post, or a 428 as others have written, this thing could be loads of fun as a sleeper. Just don't pay a GTO price for it. A lot depends on what matters to you personally.

Bear


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

well the thing is i would be paying 1500 more for this car, when i could buy this one... (link) 
1967 GTO XXX


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> well the thing is i would be paying 1500 more for this car, when i could buy this one... (link)
> 1967 GTO XXX


I wouldn't buy either one of them without a careful, personal inspection. Also, the one on Craigslist is advertised as a clone, whereas at this point it's at least possible that the first one is a real GTO (although I have my doubts). I'm not up to date on the market for these cars, but 12k for a clone with "only" a 400 seems high to me. I'd value it at 6k to 9k, and then only if it was complete, all systems working, and I'd personally verified it had no rust issues lurking under the paint.

Bear


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

ha i didnt even see that it said gto in that craigslist ad, wow.

i feel like a dummy , i will update yall after i call him.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

that one is also a Lemans, to finish the clone you would need badges 250.00, tailpanel and light assemblies w/installation and paint 3000.00, front grilles 200.00, hood 400.00. Tell me what your budget is and where you live and i will keep an eye out for cars near you, as Bear stated buying a car sight unseen is at best a risky proposition for that kinda coin. That being said "I did it", found the car on Craigslist in Idaho, and i am in MI. Luckily a had an uncle who was 15 minutes from the car and is into cars (porsche's). he went over it with a magnet and sent me no fewer than 100 pics of nearly every inch of the car. so when i was ready to pull the trigger after some negotiating (3 weeks later) i was confident it was a rust free, straight (as a 45 year old car can be), 100% original car that had a blown motor and was sitting in a carport for 35 years. the interior vinyl was baked from the high desert also. I purchased the car for 2500 and it cost me 900 to have it shipped car hauler to MI original asking price was 3500. my suggestion is find the car with the best body you can for your budget as Bear can attest just the paint and body on these cars can cost 15-20K to pay to have done right. I am doing a frame on resto and have at least 10K in parts, only thing i have not done myself is machine work on the engine. so if i had jobbed the work out that would probably equate to 20-30K parts and labor. and thats before paint....i have at least 100 hrs. in just sanding the "straight" (no such thing even with brand new panels) body and getting it ready for primer, after which i will have to sand it at least two more times completely before it is even ready for color.:cheers


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

To me, the hood looks twisted too. The passenger side looks fine but the drivers side looks way high...


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Doesn't look fully closed.
The car is a gto
He has a gto hood on it it's just not pictured.
The grill has been removed


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

heres one in PA in that price range

GTO - 1967 Pontiac GTO

and one down the street from me in MI i would be happy to look at for you

1965 to 1967 Pontiac GTO for Sale

Wisconsin

Pontiac : GTO on eBay!

Florida

Pontiac : GTO - eBay (item 290529202116 end time Feb-06-11 18:13:33 PST)

and a nice barn find no price or location

1967 GTO for sale | RustingMuscleCars.com

gotta fly, let me know where your at and i will keep an eye out for something close that you can do hands on inspection....don't rush into it, plenty out there and its a buyers market.:cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> ....don't rush into it, plenty out there and its a buyers market.:cheers


:agree That's the best advice I've seen so far. I've got more than just a little bit of experience in these matters, I grew up with my Dad working in "the car business" until the time I left home for college. The biggest mistake you can make is finding a car and then convincing yourself that you absolutely must have "that one" because you just know you'll never find "another one like it". That kind of thinking will -always- get you into trouble and cost you money. Fact is, with very few exceptions (and all those are way out of our price range anyway), there's always "another one out there" either "just like it" or even better. You've got to discipline yourself to think like that and be willing to pass up any car that's not "right" either condition-wise or price-wise.

In the market for old cars like this, there's always a reason that the seller is trying to sell for the price they're asking. People don't generally give these cars away out of the goodness of their hearts. If they're selling, there's a reason.

Bear


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## Red1968 (Jan 4, 2011)

If you are serious, I would contact Pontiac Historic Services. Based on the VIN, they will provide you with the original options, a copy of the original window sticker, and other key information. If cost around $ 40. You have to be careful, even with VINs. There are some unscrupulous people that have transfered the VIN plate from a wrecked GTO to a LeMans, change the hood and some other items and try to pass it off as a GTO. Also check the trim tag. There is great deal of information on that as well. There are some great books available, or information on the web so you can by casting codes identify what is original, and what is not. Does the owner have any previous titles, or other paper work?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Trim tag on the doors?
Where are other ways I can identifiy it as a gto?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

I probably flying out this weekend to go check it out


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## Red1968 (Jan 4, 2011)

GM Body Tag Decoding

On a '67, the trim tag is on the cowl. 1967 Pontiac GTO Cowl Tag Photo 17


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Is the car worth 10,000$
If it truly is a gto


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## Red1968 (Jan 4, 2011)

My 2 cents - If it has a sound frame and body, and the drive train is in good shape, and is an origninal GTO, I would say it is worth $ 10k. If your plan is to get it running and enjoy it as is, if is fine. If you are going to do a restoration, figure it is going to run a bunch more than your original estimate - especially if someone is doing the work for you. Ditto on the earlier post - the big money is in the bodywork and paint. I spent over $12k on that alone - and the body was in very good shape to begin with.


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## Red1968 (Jan 4, 2011)

Try to get a better photo of the interior. The GTO dash and console has wood grain inlays - I believe the lemans was flat black. The photo to me looks black, but it is hard to tell. Tail lights are different too.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

in my opinion those are both Leman's hard to tell w/o detail pictures. first one - why would anyone swap out a busted lemans grille for even a trashed gto one especially when trying to sell it as a GTO and if he sends a pic of the vin and data plate it will verify easy enough should read 242XXXXX if it's a GTO. Also if he sends you a picture of the back the GTO will have slotted tail lights, the lemans rectangular boxes like the second car. as for the second one....IMO body looks a little wavy and being black or dark color, that will jump out at you and if they did'nt take the time to iron out the flat panels i would wonder what other surprises await. and thats definitely a Lemans (box tail lights and same grille).flying out? where are you in alaska? that you can't find a few GTO's that you could drive to look at hands on without spending a few hundred on a plane fare. YOu need to set emotions aside and look at the cars objectively 10K is a lot of cash, but not near what it will cost if you have to tear it back apart to do it right in two years. like i said, if there are any in my area that you want me to look at and takes some photos of i would be happy to liaison to see if its worth flying to look at. may be others that would take a look in their area. be warry of "what i have into it" prices, parts are parts and unless its together and running they lose value the minute they are bought. .... i am just trying to help, don't want to see you wasting your budget flying around looking at cars or feeling obligated to make an offer because of the trouble you went to just to "look at the car". if its out of state and he wants it sold he should take 50+ pictures of all the trouble spots mentioned earlier and send them to you prior to any arrangements to fly and look. you could post here and get honest opinions from people who have no monetary interest other than the preservation of these cars. An informed buyer is a smart buyer...:cheers


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

sooo, is it real? =]


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

did he send pics of the data and vin tags?...the rear is a GTO, but the original pic with Lemans hood and grilles bothers me. also the GTO's usually had wood grain dash inserts. only way to know for sure is the VIN, once you get that you can order (for 40.00) the original option sheet for that VIN (car). that will tell you everything about it.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

BearGFR said:


> I'd value it at 6k to 9k, and then only if it was omplete, all systems working, and I'd personally verified it had no rust issues lurking under the paint. Bear


I'd like to know where you are shopping at.. Here's a before and after pic of my $7500 cloan.. It looked great, but needs a full redo. Lucky it was restored in 2002, but wasn't the greatest job..:rofl:
The car looks good, and if you are in Alaska, you are going to pay a premium for the car. I would be interested even if it wasn't a GTO for $10K. I have seen Tempests with SBCs and no interiors for $6K when I found my car.. You can dump money into an old car, keep it, and be happy, or get a new car, have it depreciate $10k a year. So, if you get an old one, keep it 10 years and get your money back you are alright.
















66 GTO cloan pictures by jetstang - Photobucket


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

how do you figure it need a "full redo"


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

It looked good Jet, what did you find wrong with it? did you inspect before buying? $7500 is right between 6 and 9 did you say you bought it sight unseen also? i know after i sent the money for mine, even though it was less than half that, and i had a trusted person inspect it for me and send tons of pics, i was worried sick about what might roll in on the car carrier, until i talked to the truck driver when he was heading into town and he said he may just keep this one and take it home with him. I Don't in any way think i stole it...what i did do is pay the best price for the best body i could find in my budget, as i knew i wanted to build the engine for it myself. and what i am finding out now is a great body is not always a straight body...been sanding for a month to rectify that nothing deeper than 1/16" but waves from what seems like a runaway jack or something rolling around in the trunk for a while. guess thats part of what makes the hobby interesting now is you have 24/7 swap meets and car sales at your disposal. can be risky on big buys (been lucky in my experiences with e-bay and craiglist vendors) but can type in any widget and someone has ten of them.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> how do you figure it need a "full redo"


My car was in the middle of the price, but not a GTO/242 car. Great interior, ran and looked good. I saw the car and traded my 86 Corvette and a 91 5.0 Mustang convert for it. Both my cars needed freshening but were nice, I just thought older cars held value better and was ready for the swap and don't regret it.. When I got it, the car looked good and ran. 389 was junk, ran but worn out. Now has a good 69 400 in it. Trunk weatherstrip rail was all fiberglass, no metal. Same with rear lower window mount, all fiberglass. Front right rocker gone. Lower left in front of tire gone. Both doors rust in front and rear of door. Holes in front cowl. Trunk pan rusted out, got new pan. One tail light worked, no dash lights worked. This car is in good shape for year, location and money.. All pics are in the link above. I'm not unhappy, because the car looked good, and will only be better in the future. The point is, don't trust pics, they don't show true condition, and if you don't have the want to do a total redo I would suggest to not get involved in the first place, or buy a done car.. I also just spent $400 for a replated bumper and still need a $400 hood, $300 door panels, headliner, $200 door gaskets and all the other things to get my cloan nice, then just to get disrespected because it doesn't have a 242 vin code..:cheers
Oh, and the car is with the body guy that did my 70 in my garage, so it is getting all rust replaced with metal, so it will be a really nice car when it's done. Point is, my 70 had 2 rust holes the size of quarters in the bottom of the quarters, so this car was/is way worse, but worth restoring.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> how do you figure it need a "full redo"


Honestly, it didn't, it had some rust bubbles in front of the quarters and I got a grinder out and found a bunch of rust and went from there. For a driver, it did need a motor, and I put one in, interior was done.
I'm a car guy and love the car and think it deserves the treatment it's getting, and the body guy is renting my GFs house, so it's not breaking the bank to get it done, body work is 1st 2 months rent, I pay for paint and supplies...:cheers


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

As has been said...........you NEED good, clear pics of the VIN tag and RIVETS on the left door pillar and the data (trim) tag on the firewall. If the VIN rivets are original, call PHS and get the FACTS on the car, not speculation and 40+ years of modifications and changes. The front clip could be a replacement with Tempest grilles, but it raises a huge RED flag and you need to procede with caution. I wouldn't buy a plane ticket to anywhere without all this info in hand first. 10k is still alot of money for a big disappointment. It looks to be in the south. Why not see if there is someone on here that is close and can be your eyes and get more/better pics ?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> I wouldn't buy either one of them without a careful, personal inspection. Also, the one on Craigslist is advertised as a clone, whereas at this point it's at least possible that the first one is a real GTO (although I have my doubts). I'm not up to date on the market for these cars, but 12k for a clone with "only" a 400 seems high to me. I'd value it at 6k to 9k, and then only if it was complete, all systems working, and I'd personally verified it had no rust issues lurking under the paint.
> 
> Bear


Jet, i think Bear was talking Clone, and you won't get no disrespect here for any PONTIAC. Looked good then and i am sure, Seeing what you have done to the 70' that it will be sweet when you have it done to your standards:cheers...i am in the same boat, started on body and now i am trying to make every inch perfect before it see's any color. With the weather here that gives me another 2 months to massage it.

Originally Posted by Future Goat owner? View Post
how do you figure it need a "full redo"

That is what we are trying to impart to you Future, pictures can be deceiving and condition is everything with these cars. the mechanics are relatively simple but the bodies can be expensive and time consuming and take a special skill set and tools to be done right. Please tell us what states are within driving distance and I would be happy to send a few leads your way so you can go do hands on inspections with one or two i would suggest looking at cars below and above your budget also so you will know what a correctly done car will look like and the under budget will show you where the trouble spots are. Take a look at TMP's resto thread....thats some work goin on there. in no way are we trying to discourage you from your dream (we all share it) we are just trying to get you the best bang for your hard earned buck, your part of the family. there are cars on sale here from members also, have you checked the "for sale" threads?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

All the cars seem to be too expensive on here.
I'm spending 10,000$
The car is located in tennessee 
If you could find someone to check it out that would be sweet


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

where are you?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Texas


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

this is near you, dont know if he still has it been a while

http://www.gtoforum.com/f13/1966-gto-conv-clone-30058/


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Not really wanting a clone.
Do you think it would be possible to trade a 2005 6.0 automatic gto for a running driving 67?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Texas and the Southwest have some of the best bodies in America, I would buy closer to home. I had a 66 Chevelle SS 396 that was out of Tennessee, ended up it spent most it's life in Ohio, so was full of Bondo.
When I got my 66 the intent was to leave it outside til the 70 was done. Ended up every time it rained, the car flooded! The leak was in the front cowl under the fender. Once the fender came off came the rocker rust. Rear window also leaked. They filled the rear quarters with triple expanding foam to stop rust from the inside, didn't work although new lower quarters on the car. Mine is a Southern car, floor pan and frame are intact. No rust at all on the frame, so mine is a better case example. Northern cars rotted away years ago.
Anyway, hope you are learning from our scenarios, and don't trust the sellers description.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> Not really wanting a clone.
> Do you think it would be possible to trade a 2005 6.0 automatic gto for a running driving 67?


Probably. I ended up with Pontiacs, but I like Chevy just as much, I am more into condition and cool then a particular model. My buddies are taking a show car 70 Elcamino SS396 cloan to Moultrie swap meet this weekend. It is done and has chrome control arms and all the good stuff and they only want $11K for it. I want to look at this car.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

anyone know of people in Knoxville Tennessee that would be willing to inspect the car for me?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

did he give you the VIN # of that car and take pics of the data plate for you? It does not look too bad in those better pics, if its a 242 i would say its worth it, if its a clone i would say closer to 7,500 as its still not running or driving. i agree with Jet Texas cars are usually nice and clean due to the arid climate. along with Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, New Mexico. so you are in the best area to find a clean one. A real GTO in the 10,000 range WILL need work, thats less than half of what a nice fresh resto'd one is costing. ones with older resto's are 15-20K.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

A guy off of a corvette website I used
Previously is going to check the car out sometime soon.

The owner of the gto is going to send me a picture of the title 
Vin and trim tags onthe firewall and pillar.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

good deal Future have him take a camera and shoot everything underneath the car, trunk pans, and have him shoot under the rear window in the trunk. get high res pics so you can zoom in. post them when you get them and we will let you know what we see.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

:agree I really hope it works out for you, all the best of luck!
They came by with the 70 Elcamino, older show car, no heat/AC-stainless firewall, chrome inner fenderwells, 12 bolt rear end, ladder bars, cable drive tach, rebuilt motor, sump added to gas tank, electric fuel pump, roller motor, timing chain and cam, 3" exhaust, ran great, nasty idle, gloss painted frame. Needs new body paint, worn out candy paint on the car. They tried to buff it out, but went through the paint. Cowl hood with vacuum scoop-chrome.. And it's a real SS 396 car! Assume it's a tubo 400. Brakes went out loading it on the trailer, car has been stored in a garage for last 10 years and doesn't smell musty or anything. I am going with the car to the swap meet, so if anyone wants the car, call me (850)368-7873. I will look at the car and can have any pic anyone wants, and will be able to tell you more details.
Sorry Future for a jack, but put it here, then am going to copy/paste to a new thread.. This is a great deal if you want a Elcamino.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

bolt your front clip to it and make a LeCamino....


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> All the cars seem to be too expensive on here.
> I'm spending 10,000$
> The car is located in Tennessee
> If you could find someone to check it out that would be sweet


Start a thread in the General Discussion forum here asking for people around Knoxville and on this site.. 66-67 GTO Tempest & LeMans TECH - PY Online Forums There are many people on there that could help too. Get a set of eyes on it for that price. 10k may not seem like a lot for a real GTO but if it turns out to be a clone, you lost 4k before you ever get it home....

To me, that car screams Tempest Custom. I don't think the door panels are GTO pattern and all the interior emblems are missing .....wonder why. The front seats are not '67 GTO pattern and may be from a Buick. Console looks to be out of something else and home made for the shifter. Rear seat belts are Tan and from a newer model They should have a Fischer coach on the center emblem, not GM. ALL these changes could be from original parts deteriorating and the owner using what they could find, but it has enough doubt to need close scrutiny.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree Mitch, not to mention the first set of pics with the Tempest grilles and hood.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

I've already made thread on here asking for help from people in tennesee but no one replied, so a corvette forum member is going to help me out : /

If this car is not a true gto I will be going with a 2005 6.0 gto I have lined up.

Can anyone posting in here tell if the rivets are year correct, etc?
If/when i get a picture


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> I've already made thread on here asking for help from people in tennesee but no one replied, so a corvette forum member is going to help me out : /
> 
> If this car is not a true gto I will be going with a 2005 6.0 gto I have lined up.
> 
> ...


 As long as it's a clear close-up, YES. Need to see detail...


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yes Future, i am sure if you get pics of the VIN Mitch will be able to tell if they are factory applied. Retail range on an 06' is 10-20K so you are buying at the low end of that scale, Those are a completely different animal, seeing as they were made in australia with a corvette engine. Not a lot of experience with those cars, but i hear service and repair prices are high and you will need more mechanical know-how if you plan on wrenching on it yourself, plus a lot of those cars were/are street raced so the miles on it could hard ones. Seen a post that stated that there was all ready a 15% attrition rate on the 04-06 GTO's mostly from being wrapped around telephone poles or worse. Just do a search for GTO salvage cars and you will see.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Also found this one
1967 GTO for sale | RustingMuscleCars.com


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Future,

I've been following your thread for awhile and can second what some of these folks have said about being patient. It's your money and you really are in the driver's seat here. Take your time and learn as much as you can about the car you want to own. Once you know what to look for, you'll know when a good deal comes along. I've learned over time that the deals are out there and you just have to be patient. I got lucky and my car fell in my lap through a friend.

My friend has restored over 20 GTO's and knows what he's looking for. When he decided he wanted to build a '67, he put an ad on Craigslist stating what he was looking for. Within two days he had three responses within 75 miles of us. One of the response was from a guy who had two cars; one (the one I now own) was complete and pretty orignal and the other one was a body-off restoration project. The guy hadn't worked in quite some time and was facing foreclosure. He wanted to get rid of both cars. 

Long story short, my friend bought both cars and made the deal with me to make the one available as soon as he was done using it as a template to build the other. This gave me the time to finish and sell my 63 Nova SS and buy the car I'm now driving.

Take your time, learn as much as you can and you'll be ready when the right car pops up.

Cheers and good luck to you!

Chuck


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Tomorrow the car will be getting inspected


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> Tomorrow the car will be getting inspected



Excellent....arty:


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

turns out the tags looked like they were "homemade"
also said the seller sounded shady. :shutme






...next??????
ive called the other guy with the gto i listed, no return call yet.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Glad you found out so you can put that one behind you. Seriously, try putting a "GTO Wanted" Ad. on Craigslist. It just might work out as it did for my buddy! 

Chuck


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

i did, ive had two respones.
one was a lemans the other i believe was just spam, but i think your idea will work!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> turns out the tags looked like they were "homemade"
> also said the seller sounded shady. :shutme
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats on your making the right move. You've learned an important and valuable lesson in buying classic cars and it didn't cost 10k.....:cheers
I know how it goes when you decide you want something and can't find it right away but have patience. Something in your price and skill range will come along. I'd offer up my '67 for you but you can find better cars in your state just sitting outside. You're in a very good region to find decent material to work with. I've bought parts for mine out OK, New Mexico and Arizona and they are always very clean.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Found this in Utah. Looks like a LOT of work...but the price seems fair...

Car Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming - ksl.com


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

This ones in Colorado and looks pretty solid to start with, although I would try to get it for 5k or less....

White 1967 GTO 4 Speed Car


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> turns out the tags looked like they were "homemade"
> also said the seller sounded shady. :shutme


Here ya go...

1967 GTO
1967 Lemans
66 GTO clone

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

that first one looks like a good foundation Bear...


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Not looking for a clone or lemans.

I've already emailed the Dallas guy, I just don't have the time to drop in s motor and tranny do to school.

Does anyone have free vin checks?
6g2vx12u05l368120


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

a true GTO in the 10K range will most likely not be a turnkey car, expect to drop a couple grand minimum "getting it going"...where as a Lemans or clone could be a relatively nice driver. 

heres a scenario - I am working on getting a 70' GTO (Judge?) right now, been researching it for the last week, waiting on PHS to confirm what i suspect. This car is disassembled and has been moved twice in that state. as far as i can tell it is all there less motor and trans in relatively good shape for a snow belt car, guy took it apart "to make it better" from a daily driver, 8 years ago. It has changed hands twice since then and in the second transaction it was not full paid for but did change hands (not title). I have jokingly offered to buy the car in the past but the guy says he is "gonna drop a BB chevy in it and put chevelle stripes on it", to which i offered to sell him my spare 455 short block so he would at least not desecrate it. My point in all of this rambling is....i know all this about a car "That is not for sale!!!"....why???, because when he needs money, or the guy he bought it off of lowers the boom and wants payment...guess who will be there to bail him out by buying that "old Pontiac" in the back shed for cash money. Deals are not lucked into usually.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

:agree
I was at a swap meet today in Georgia. There was a barn find complete 67 Firebird there. My buddy was interested, along with another guy. It was a dead solid complete car, with a 350 2 barrel. Engine and inner fenders covered with surface rust and not cleaned up. Buddy called, owner said he was taking offers. Other guy called and offered $4500 cash, owner said he was close, but not close enough. Worn out barn find, running, but needing restoration is $6500!! That's for a base 350 Firebird, no option car, not a Trans Am. Then a guy had a really nice 69 GTO Judge Orbit Orange cloan with hideaways, 4 sp, huge cam, nice paint for $13K!!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

jetstang said:


> :agree
> I was at a swap meet today in Georgia. There was a barn find complete 67 Firebird there. My buddy was interested, along with another guy. It was a dead solid complete car, with a 350 2 barrel. Engine and inner fenders covered with surface rust and not cleaned up. Buddy called, owner said he was taking offers. Other guy called and offered $4500 cash, owner said he was close, but not close enough. Worn out barn find, running, but needing restoration is $6500!! That's for a base 350 Firebird, no option car, not a Trans Am. Then a guy had a really nice 69 GTO Judge Orbit Orange cloan with hideaways, 4 sp, huge cam, nice paint for $13K!!


Like everything else today, people have seen these sell for stupid money on ebay and think their stuff is worth gold. For that price, the 'bird will sit till he lists it on ebay and I doubt it would bring that price there either in this economy. It's early in the year and the prices at the first swap meets are high. I went to the last local swap meet here last October and the prices were finally realistic. I came home with many a bargain from that one.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Too Many Projects said:


> Like everything else today, people have seen these sell for stupid money on ebay and think their stuff is worth gold. For that price, the 'bird will sit till he lists it on ebay and I doubt it would bring that price there either in this economy. It's early in the year and the prices at the first swap meets are high. I went to the last local swap meet here last October and the prices were finally realistic. I came home with many a bargain from that one.


Agree, owner thinks he found gold with the car, and honestly he did. Car didn't have any rust on the body beyond surface. But what is a nice 67 Firebird 2 barrel worth restored??? It was cold, rainy and nasty out there, so buyers werent' there. I put another thread on here of my buys, it was my best meet ever, had a great time!


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

i found a running driving and painted one for 10 obo
someone tell me if this looks legit?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

data stamp


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

any pics of the car, thats a gto plate

it is a 1967 GTO two door sport coupe (post car), built the second week of July in Kansas City. The original color was champagne and the interior was gold. 

this is what it would have looked like new

http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showcar.cgi?type=dream&line=1296583945&pic=/1967/67_00302_2


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


>


That's the trim (data) tag and yes it looks good but we need a pic of the VIN to see if it matches. There's a little extra sealer around the trim tag but it looks OK.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Too Many Projects said:


> That's the trim (data) tag and yes it looks good but we need a pic of the VIN to see if it matches. There's a little extra sealer around the trim tag but it looks OK.


ok thank you.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Going off the 1st pic of the PHS, it matches the data plate....
Also should have air, floor mounted 3-speed syncho-trans, push button radio w/manual antenna, deluxe wheel covers, soft ray glass(just windshield), F70x14 redline wide ovals and WT motor.
It also should be a hardtop not a sport coupe post....


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

68greengoat said:


> Going off the 1st pic of the PHS, it matches the data plate....
> Also should have air, floor mounted 3-speed syncho-trans, push button radio w/manual antenna, deluxe wheel covers, soft ray glass(just windshield), F70x14 redline wide ovals and WT motor.
> It also should be a hardtop not a sport coupe post....


Interesting car with the options and 3 speed manual. They must have run out of funds for the 4 speed...:confused

NOW, if the VIN tag on the door post matches and appears unmolested, you should have a winner. Any pics of the cars current condition ? If the car is decent and close to original, it may be a good buy.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

The car is probably far from original specs
No ac
It's now a automatic, but still has the clutch pedal( ha) easy if I want to convert back.
The car runs an drives and is painted, don't think I could ask for much more


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> The car is probably far from original specs
> No ac
> It's now a automatic, but still has the clutch pedal( ha) easy if I want to convert back.
> The car runs an drives and is painted, don't think I could ask for much more


You NEED to ask for a lot more !! A/C cars have a different firewall. If the A/C is just disconnected or removed but the firewall is the A/C style then it should be OK. If the firewall is NOT an A/C style then you need to look very closely at the sealer and rivets on the trim tag to see if it was swapped and CHECK THE VIN. ASSUME NOTHING. The tags are the single most important items to inspect to authenticate these old cars. Posting pics of a PHS that matches the VIN is only helpful to see if the car matches the options originally installed. It is not a guaranty that the tags didn't come from a different car. Swapped tags is nothing to joke with. Some states still allow "rebodies" where 2 cars are combined into 1 and Texas is one of the worst states for that. If you end up with one of those cars and you go to sell it, the next buyer may go over it more carefully and discover it's been compromised and the value will be drastically reduced. I got ripped off on a TX rebody car in the past and lost my butt, not to mention the red tape my state gave me over the title. If you plan to keep the car until you die or don't care if it isn't authentic, then precede as you are. You came on here asking for help in authenticating your previous find and I believe the people on here saved you from making a costly mistake. Once again, we suggest exactly what to look for and you seem to sidestep the issue. If you are reluctant to post a pic of a VIN tag on the web, then send it in a PM or email to someone who can verify it in private.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

You act like the car is in my garage I can NOT Just take a picture of the vin, it's half way across the united states. I will get pictures of the vin posted once she sends them to me, chill.
How am I side stepping at all?

The one who saved me on the last car was the person who drove a hour just to inspect the car for me( a guy he just met)
Just like that car I will have it inspected.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> You act like the car is in my garage I can NOT Just take a picture of the vin, it's half way across the united states. I will get pictures of the vin posted once she sends them to me, chill.
> How am I side stepping at all?


Hey Future, it's ok ---- folks involved with these old cars love them a lot, and we just hate to see someone get burned and wind up blaming it on the car, ya know? Sometimes we get a little carried away trying to look out for people, but our intentions are good.... :cheers

Bear


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Bear are they any local gto get togethers?
Or car shows for gtos?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Future, I came in on this late, I guess I was asleep. Sounds like you are on the right track now. Lots of good advise here, and it looks like you took it to heart. I noticed on that first '67 (the black car with the Tempest/Lemans front end) that the rear quarter panel GTO emblems are in the wrong place. They are too high up on the quarter panels. Real GTO have the side emblems lower and a shade further back. That car IMO is a definite red flag. Again, sounds like you've found your way! Good luck.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

does this help with what you were wondering about the firewall?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> Bear are they any local gto get togethers?
> Or car shows for gtos?


You mean around me? I'm sure there are. I know there's such a thing as the Dallas Area Pontiac Association, and maybe a local chapter of the GTOAA (GTO Association of America) heck, they may be one and the same now. I used to be a DAPA member but dropped out, because I didn't have a running Pontiac at the time (still don't, but I'm getting closer!)

There are also some long-standing montlhy cruise nights at local "drive ins" and stuff. I'm not currently plugged into any of that stuff, but will probably get involved once I get my 69 done.

A good place to find out about stuff like that is often your local "speed shop" if you have one.

Bear


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

fyi im from irving, but going to school in waco.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> fyi im from irving, but going to school in waco.


Howdy neighbor :seeya: I live in Garland, work in Irving


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Vin...


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yes thats an AC fire wall, and the vin plate does not appear altered. Looks like they painted it back to Champagne too, nice color you don't see to often. Engine looks clean (not crazy about the black but thats cosmetic). have any pics of body and interior?? your on the right track Future


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

The car does not have all
Of the chrome gto emblems and windshield trim
Installed but she says she has it.

The interior is "ok"
Dash needs some pieces and a headliner
The seats look nice.
She also says all of the gauges work
Body is straight

I'll see about posting some picturss


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)




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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

looks good so far, hows the body?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree, looks real good. Hardtop, too. Original steering wheel is a good sign....doesn't look like it's been butchered or hacked......we shall see!!!


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Well it's a 3 speed automatic now, still has the clutch pedal.

Which for me I'm happy with, since it should be easier to go back to a manual.
Anyone use keisler/tko 5 speed in there gto?


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)




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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Is the hood just not closed or not bolted down?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Haven't responded in a while, this car looks/sounds better. Where is it at? TMP may have been hard on you, but I looked at his 66 A body that he is now doing a frame off on, I gave it the OK.. Every one is being critical in your best interest. It's hard to find something you really want and have a hole crew telling you why not to get it.. Glad the last one didn't work out, but this one looks way better, good luck. Looks like the passenger seat isn't mounted, does it have carpet? I would be interested in that car.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

looks like its just not latched...hmmm, looks pretty good, fresh paint, how close is this one to you? On second look heres what i see and it may just be the camera angle, but it looks like the front header panel and bumper are not aligned correctly and if this is the case the hood may not shut... i would bet they were removed when painted and hastily re-installed (seeing as they have not put badges on either) as the gaps can be a major pain to get right...definitely not a deal breaker if thats all it is , just some painstaking adjustment needed.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Not close


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree, Jetstang. This is a pretty thick-skinned crowd, with a common goal..restoring and driving these cars. Sometimes some of us can get worked up, etc., but I truly believe we're all here to help each other out the best we can, because we love doing it. I've learned a bunch on this forum, and expect to learn a lot more. There are a bunch of really solid folks on this forum. Future, that '67 looks like the hood is open to me, not unbolted. Could be wrong. That car is looking better with every picture, though.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

My budget includes shipping in the 10,000
Just hope she accepts my offer : /

But who wouldn't budge a little for a 19year old college student who has only driven cars(classics) twice his age since he was 16?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i had mine shipped from Idaho to Michigan and it was around 900.00 on an open car carrier.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Wewh did you get your quotes online?
I've gotten several 600-800 surprisingly


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yes they will bombard you with them....thats around 2000 miles, so figure around .50 a mile, it mainly depends on how hungry the drivers are, they are all posted on a board and the drivers pick and choose based on their route across country (let the driver park his truck and stay the night on my back lot and had a few pops with him and his wife) he was out of washigton state and said he does 1-2 coast to coasts a month.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Where is the car at?? OH, holding out on us, cool, lol!! The car pic is datestamped 2/8/10, so either 4 or 12 months old, other pics aren't date stamped..
Hey, the worst that can happen is that you pay way too much for it and have to do a total redo, and there are a bunch of us in that boat, lol!! Good luck, looks nice and hope it works out.. :cheers
There is a ton of work/parts in an old car, luckily most are way cheaper than newer cars..


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

well, i took a look at the rest of the pics that the seller posted ....heres what i see.

-If you look at the second picture the fender is sligthly below the A-pillar where they meet (sign that the front needs to be shimmed like i said)
- drivers side headlight bezel is missing and the gap at header panel is too wide
- bumper seems out of alignment to center of header panel
-the hood appears to be just setting in place (raised in the back while down in the front)
-body and paint look good but its hard to tell from 10 feet little lone in a picture and they show no full side shots
-wiper blades are not original....lol, (just calling'em as i see'em)
-in the third picture the hood is sitting right (again probably just needs front clip adjusted)
-the upper side body line drops at the door/quarter gap (lining all this up is a lesson in patients)
-in the rear shots the bumper is out of alignment (again these are all parts that are taken off for the paint to be correct, it just looks like they were installed in a rush) 
-trunk and tail panel gaps line up nice
- interior appears to need heater/ac control
- dash pad
-radio
- console is correct (door missing)
- appears to have his/hers shifter (nice bonus)

all in all if they have the rest of the parts with the car and they send some side pics of the body work i would think this car should be in the range of what they are asking.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Klkk


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> I'm gonna guess Wyoming Jet....lol, front plate.


Ha ha ha at my expense, nice, thanks g8ter.. Plates get swapped, and some states like FL don't require front plates so you can put whatever on there, like Wyoming plates when you live in Ohio..
Wyoming cars should be like Colorado, they don't use salt, so if it's lived it's life there, car should be really good..


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

Jet what's your profession


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree Jet we don't have to have fronts in MI either, but i always eliminate the obvious first when problem solving....usually the little things that get you, while we all look for the big ones...


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> Jet what's your profession


I was in the Air Force for 22 years, lived all over the place, retired. Now, I'm a service tech, fix broken equipment. Motorhead/hotrod cars as a hobby, but do it alot..


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

check PM JET


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

C5 Vette? 2 gtos? Silverado ss?
Nice collection.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> check PM JET


Got it, thanks, looks good. Hopefully legit, but I would be on it.. Ask TMP, I'll sign off on anything!! His car did look really good.


Future Goat owner? said:


> C5 Vette? 2 gtos? Silverado ss?
> Nice collection.


Actually, it's a 90 454 SS, 12000 produced, but hey.. I'm car rich, money poor.. I love cars, and had Pontiacs in High School, 66 and 71, now 26 years later, 66 and 70! But, I paid $4K for the 70 and traded for the 66. 90 454 SS got it for $2100 with a blown motor, but did have a gear vendor OD in it. Vette was a post divorce, just got back from Iraq purchase, paid real money, but don't regret it, traded her 94 Camaro SS in on it!!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Future Goat owner? said:


> The car runs and drives and is painted, don't think I could ask for much more


THIS is the sentence that seemed to indicate you were going to throw caution to the wind and buy it without verification. Up to that point, you had never included a pic of a VIN tag and seemed to be sidestepping the issue and it's importance. You could have included a note about waiting on pics and lining up an inspection...

It does upset me when I see others about to make the same blunders I've made, especially when I, and others, are trying to help them avoid the same mistakes. Swapped tags, as you probably guessed, is a VERY sore subject to me and for the most part avoidable with proper inspection. Unless you have experienced the sickening knot in your stomach as your heart bounces off the floor at the realization that you have just been duped to the tune of 5-6k and now have a white elephant that will be hard to get rid of, the feeling is hard to explain and doesn't fade with time. That is why I stress the importance of inspecting the VIN tag first. If it looks suspicious in any way, the car either needs a VERY close inspection or you should walk away and not look back, no matter how much you THINK you want that particular vehicle.

Apparently the pic of the VIN and link to more pics has been removed, so I can't comment on any of it. Did anyone else see the tag and rivets ? 

If the car checks out good and is legit, it should be a good deal, especially if you can buy it and get it home for 10k total. Diesel prices are at mid to high 3 dollar a gallon levels right now, so I don't think you will see any super bargains on transport but anything under 1k would be good. If you are getting quotes on-line, check the feedback on any potential carriers. Many I checked for the transport of my car from FL had negative comments about being put off on pick up times and I avoided them. I paid a paltry $50 more to contract with a carrier with an excellent feedback record. Oh, and make certain the car is covered under THEIR insurance while on the truck. Your insurance agent will most likely NOT be able to enact coverage on your behalf before you have possession.

Sorry for being pi$$y the other day. I'll try to remember it's your money, not mine, if you blow the deal...:lol:


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

A agree with TMP 100%, and it couldn't be said better....particularly about the stomach knot/heart bouncing off the floor stuff. It does happen, and the damage it does sticks with you. Seeing what I've seen, and I've only seen the 3 photos, it looks like a fairly solid car that has been hastily mocked up/reassembled (bumpers out of line, missing trim, hood). It also was a gold interior car, and it appears that the seats were dyed black. I've run into that a lot, and they have that look. Not a big issue, but it'll take a grand to fix. I could very well be wrong on that, though. For me to feel "good" about it, I'd offer the seller 8k cash. Pretty hard to get hurt at that price. It looks like it can be a "fix up as you go" driver. This economy is tanked. You can get a nice restored car now for about half of what the restoration cost. Good luck.


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

I could careless if the interior is not what it was 40+ years ago, I'm not a numbers matching type of guy. The car looks like it has just been painted an all of the chrome has not been installed( to me)


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm done here...........


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Future, these guys are really trying to help, and have vast experience in the car game. Look at it this way, I'll sell you my 90 454 SS with a rust free body, new built 468, gear vendors OD, nice interior for $8K, running/driving truck that runs low 13s in the quarters.. Or my 70 Lemans Sport with brand new paint, rebuilt original engine, cam, headers, rear gear, rims, tires, complete new front end, brakes, great interior for $13Kish.. Haven't really thought about selling it, but in the mid 10-20 range. My car has a link of the build, tons of pictures and I built it. You could either and have a nice running/driving car if you weren't caught up on the 242 vin code. This also goes for other models, Chevelles, Camaro, and the like. For a first car you really need something that is done, especially if this is all of your money..


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## Future Goat owner? (Jan 31, 2011)

First car, I've had a f150 and two c3s of course not all at the same time.
Why would I suffice for a car I don't want and be unhappy with it, cause that's what your encouraging me to do.
I don't want a fake gto.
Id rather buy a gto body and throw in a ls2 and a 6 speed if I can not find a whole car for my price.

If I was going to buy a truck it would be a 4x4 f250 7.3 ext cab, thanks for the offer though.


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