# 69 GTO restoration project - update, need help Please! !



## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

Hello there,

i need advice for my project.

I'm new to American muscle cars.

I have a small JDM garage in Bulgaria, but I always wanted something big, American muscle car.

It was my choice - 69 GTO matching numbers.

The car is almost disassembled already and it's time to order parts.

The best option for me is to order all the necessary parts from one place.

Everything will go to my transport agent and from there on a pallet, in a container for Bulgaria.

I focused on the option for parts of http://www.opgi.com/gto/ .

They have almost everything I need, 
but I am open to other options if you can offer.

My biggest problem is the engine parts. Here I may need good advice. OPGI - cant find there full engine rebuild kit or master engine rebuild kit - 
I'm not sure what it's called.

Please if you can help me with the choice of engine rebuild kit and direct me to a good manufacturer.

The idea of this project is to return the car as close as possible to the original.

If, of course, you have other tips, please share them. I repeat, I have restored several JDM cars - Celica ST205,Supra mk3,Supra mk4,Datsun 280z - all of them US imported, but I have never taken up an American muscle car before. So I accept any advice.

Thanks in advance


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

You have a hard road ahead. We all do... yours is just even harder, due to shipping. But, it's only money. Butler Performance will have all of the engines and parts.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

X2 with army, from what I seen looks solid and original even looks like the dealer emblem on the trunk lid. Ames is another supplier on the east coast Pontiac only.But yes I can only imagine the expense of shipping


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I also use the Butlers for most of my engine parts.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Congratulations on your purchase. It looks like it has good bones. Hopefully you can get what you need without to many delays. If you haven't read several items are on back order right now. So sticking to one order may cause longer delays. I had to shop around to find parts in stock many had back orders till fall. Best of luck


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> You have a hard road ahead. We all do... yours is just even harder, due to shipping. But, it's only money. Butler Performance will have all of the engines and parts.


Yeah, will be Hard road but shipping is not a big issue.... Full pallet to my country is just 600usd


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

pontrc said:


> X2 with army, from what I seen looks solid and original even looks like the dealer emblem on the trunk lid. Ames is another supplier on the east coast Pontiac only.But yes I can only imagine the expense of shipping


Car is super solid.... Floors are perfect,the original paint under the carpet is still there, frame is perfect, trunk is perfect ... The only rust is on rear panels and probably around front and rear glass, but will see after sandblasting


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Vasiliy said:


> Yeah, will be Hard road but shipping is not a big issue.... Full pallet to my country is just 600usd


I have many foreign friends and shipping is always an issue. They can't even ship my hot sauce, so I can't imagine shipping a Pontiac 400. However, a 69 GTO is a worthy cause, so like I said before, if you have the money, then why not do it?

Sounds like you could easily go in the mild restomod direction as well. That way it looks all original, but you can modernize a few things to dramatically improve performance, and save a lot of money as well. All original is an admirable course, but if it's not a well optioned/ rare piece and you don't have the original engine (do you? I couldnt tell), then you can save a money and more easily acquire brakes, suspension, interior, performance stuff, and electronics.


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

About Butlers parts... The one i find is this https://butlerperformance.com/i-316...pereutectic-pistons.html?ref=category:1459563

This one is w/o camshaft 

Check some other in ebay - They call them master rebuild kit and includes camshaft and other bits. 

Really, dont know nothing about this 400ci and will need advise, just point me the way to go. If it was 2jz engine no issues at all, but this is new to me


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I have many foreign friends and shipping is always an issue. They can't even ship my hot sauce, so I can't imagine shipping a Pontiac 400. However, a 69 GTO is a worthy cause, so like I said before, if you have the money, then why not do it?
> 
> Sounds like you could easily go in the mild restomod direction as well. That way it looks all original, but you can modernize a few things to dramatically improve performance, and save a lot of money as well. All original is an admirable course, but if it's not a well optioned/ rare piece and you don't have the original engine (do you? I couldnt tell), then you can save a money and more easily acquire brakes, suspension, interior, performance stuff, and electronics.


Shipping was not an issue.... To find Good, rust free car was hard, but i Did it. 
Full shipping price was 3500 usd - from Colorado to my door in Bulgaria includes taxes and duty
This gto is complete original, original engine, original trans - matching numbers 69 gto whit 2 owners, first one till 1989 and then second one till last year.... I am 3 owner. This is the reason will try to restore the car as much as is posible close to the original. Correct me If i am wrong Please.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Vasiliy said:


> About Butlers parts... The one i find is this https://butlerperformance.com/i-316...pereutectic-pistons.html?ref=category:1459563
> 
> This one is w/o camshaft
> 
> ...


You really want to call Butler. The price of the call will be a fraction of $600 shipping, and you'll get the best advice that there is. They'll put together a pckage for you, regardless of whether you see it on their site or not.

Personally, I wouldnt generically trust ebay unless it's a reputable Pontiac seller. There are *dramatic* differences in the quality of bearings, pistons, gaskets, cams, castings, lifters...

It's not so difficult to send a 2300lb Honda down the road with a modified hairdryer motor, but now you're entering into torque land, and a strong Pontiac 400 is going to quickly show you where you shouldve spent more money.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Vasiliy said:


> Shipping was not an issue.... To find Good, rust free car was hard, but i Did it.
> Full shipping price was 3500 usd - from Colorado to my door in Bulgaria includes taxes and duty
> This gto is complete original, original engine, original trans - matching numbers 69 gto whit 2 owners, first one till 1989 and then second one till last year.... I am 3 owner. This is the reason will try to restore the car as much as is posible close to the original. Correct me If i am wrong Please.


You're not wrong. Under those conditions, yes, I too would restore it to original. And... while most would consider it too expensive to spend $175 to ship a bottle of hot sauce... $3500 to ship a GTO to Bulgaria is cheap.


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> You really want to call Butler. The price of the call will be a fraction of $600 shipping, and you'll get the best advice that there is. They'll put together a pckage for you, regardless of whether you see it on their site or not.
> 
> Personally, I wouldnt generically trust ebay unless it's a reputable Pontiac seller. There are *dramatic* differences in the quality of bearings, pistons, gaskets, cams, castings, lifters...
> 
> It's not so difficult to send a 2300lb Honda down the road with a modified hairdryer motor, but now you're entering into torque land, and a strong Pontiac 400 is going to quickly show you where you shouldve spent more money.


Agree..... Will call Butler for an advise and probably will go with his parts.


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> You're not wrong. Under those conditions, yes, I too would restore it to original. And... while most would consider it too expensive to spend $175 to ship a bottle of hot sauce... $3500 to ship a GTO to Bulgaria is cheap.


All of my cars came from US, my shipping agent is good, depends on domestic shipping but prices to Bulgaria are from 3200-3500 usd per car.... Those prices are totals includes taxes and duty.... Last year for my FJ cruiser paid 3200usd from NY


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Please reconsider using OPGI. Big fancy catalog but customer service is terrible, expensive compared to the other vendors and parts don't always fit. Ames is much better, plus they're on the east coast. They will work with you regarding shipping. The catalog and website give an honest description of the quality of the parts they sell. 






Ames Performance Engineering, Classic GTO Parts, Firebird Parts, and Full Size Pontiac restoration parts.


Pontiac GTO, Lemans, Tempest, Firebird, Trans am, Bonneville, Grand Prix, Catalina, GTO Parts, restoration, reproduction parts, ram air, engine, hinges, bumpers, latches, switches, carburetor, brakes, weatherstrip, seals, chrome, hoods, emblems, sheet metal, GM Licensed



secure.amesperf.com


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Several good books describing the Pontiac V8 and how to rebuild and / or modify. Pontiac engines have several quirks that make them different from other GM makes. Do not assume that they're like a Chevrolet. Thats why is always best to go with a Pontiac builder. 
Butler is good.
Len Williams in Oklahoma; Len Williams Auto Machine
Paul Spotts in Pennsylvania; http://www.spottsperformance.com
Paul Knippen in Illinois; PaulKnippensMuscleMotors


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

You can get the cam from Butler also. It's not in the kits because there's not a "one size fits all" cam.


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

O52 said:


> Please reconsider using OPGI. Big fancy catalog but customer service is terrible, expensive compared to the other vendors and parts don't always fit. Ames is much better, plus they're on the east coast. They will work with you regarding shipping. The catalog and website give an honest description of the quality of the parts they sell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip
Will check amesperf too


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

O52 said:


> Several good books describing the Pontiac V8 and how to rebuild and / or modify. Pontiac engines have several quirks that make them different from other GM makes. Do not assume that they're like a Chevrolet. Thats why is always best to go with a Pontiac builder.
> Butler is good.
> Len Williams in Oklahoma; Len Williams Auto Machine
> Paul Spotts in Pennsylvania; http://www.spottsperformance.com
> Paul Knippen in Illinois; PaulKnippensMuscleMotors


Will check all of them and will pick one to build me full kit


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

may you help me decode my fender tag ... try to do it by myself ... and i did it but not at all











thanks in advance


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## CDub67 (Jun 20, 2019)

Good luck with your project. Looks like a good one. Though I've not done business with OPGI, I'm with 052 regarding Ames. Real good folks who know their Pontiacs and great customer service.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Thats the way I like to buy cars....original paint and no primer to cover up bondo. I bought a Z28 once with qtrs primered and was expecting bondo. Just not chicken wire and bondo lol. Nice start there. I used those pistons because the price was reasonable with a 068 cam, ramair manifolds, 2.5 magnaflows, mated to 3 speed dearborn and 3:55 rear. Plenty of power and torque.


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

CDub67 said:


> Good luck with your project. Looks like a good one. Though I've not done business with OPGI, I'm with 052 regarding Ames. Real good folks who know their Pontiacs and great customer service.


Thanks 
Already check Ames and will do business with them 100%


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Vasiliy said:


> About Butlers parts... The one i find is this https://butlerperformance.com/i-316...pereutectic-pistons.html?ref=category:1459563
> 
> This one is w/o camshaft
> 
> ...


You did not metion this and assume you know enough about engine rebuilds, you want to disassemble the engine and hot tank/clean the parts and magnaflux the heads/block/crankshaft for any cracks. Then you can decide how much you might have to bore the block or turn down the crank before ordering any rebuild kit.

I would also consider lowering the compression down to 9.0 so you can run on the lower octane gas. You can do this ordering custom piston AFTER you CC the combustion chambers on the heads so you know how many CC's you will need to build into the piston tops to get you near that 9.0 compression range - unless you want the high compression and can get high octane gasoline.

Using the compression calculator and filling in all the numbers will give you a good idea of what your engine compression will be. You can adjust several of the numbers and then you will know where you can make your changes.



Compression Ratio Calculator - Wallace Racing


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> You did not metion this and assume you know enough about engine rebuilds, you want to disassemble the engine and hot tank/clean the parts and magnaflux the heads/block/crankshaft for any cracks. Then you can decide how much you might have to bore the block or turn down the crank before ordering any rebuild kit.
> 
> I would also consider lowering the compression down to 9.0 so you can run on the lower octane gas. You can do this ordering custom piston AFTER you CC the combustion chambers on the heads so you know how many CC's you will need to build into the piston tops to get you near that 9.0 compression range - unless you want the high compression and can get high octane gasoline.
> 
> ...


Of course, I will first disassemble, clean and check all engine parts. I hope to do it in 2-3 weeks. I have restored several Toyota 2jz, 3sgte, 7mgte engines, but it has always been with stock parts.

I admit that I've never dealt with v8 and I've never changed compression before. In my country, gasoline is 95 octane and 100 octane.

Either I will have to think seriously about compression or maybe seek advice from the one from whom I will buy the parts for the engine - Butler most likely.

Thanks for the advice though

P. S. If someone still went this way and has a ready solution, please share it, because I'm not sure I will be able to handle the calculations completely correctly.

Thanks in advance


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

]]


Vasiliy said:


> Of course, I will first disassemble, clean and check all engine parts. I hope to do it in 2-3 weeks. I have restored several Toyota 2jz, 3sgte, 7mgte engines, but it has always been with stock parts.
> 
> I admit that I've never dealt with v8 and I've never changed compression before. In my country, gasoline is 95 octane and 100 octane.
> 
> ...


If you search my post "cracked open my 400 this is what I Found". Maybe it will give you a starting point for your questions. I too had rebuilt/refreshed engines but not a pontiac or a full rebuild. Guys here walked me thru it and all is good now.


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## ColoradoMike (Mar 29, 2020)

Also working on a 69 GTO and had some issues with OPGI. Ames Performance has both the knowledge and should have most of the parts with better quality. 

I'm from Colorado so good to see a survivor being restored! Can't get over the trailer hitch, but we do some odds things here in CO! Best of luck!


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Regarding the Data (Fisher Body) plate.

ST 69-24237 
Body Style 
Year 1969 
GTO (242) 
2 door Hardtop (37)

BDY BT06136 
BT -Body Manufacturing Plant Baltimore 
06136 Body Sequence number for that particular plant / date / assembly line

TR 252
Interior Trim - Gold

Paint 63 F
63 Champagne 
F (unknown)

03C232
03C Date Built - Third week of March 1969
232 Unknown; Depending upon manufacturing plant this could be options added to the car 

Since this is a Baltimore car you may not have the VIN stamped on the frame as done by the other manufacturing plants. If you do it should be located on *top* of the frame just behind the left rear wheel.









The frame identification is located in the same area but on the side of the frame


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

ColoradoMike said:


> Also working on a 69 GTO and had some issues with OPGI. Ames Performance has both the knowledge and should have most of the parts with better quality.
> 
> I'm from Colorado so good to see a survivor being restored! Can't get over the trailer hitch, but we do some odds things here in CO! Best of luck!


thanks

i already chose Ames


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

O52 said:


> View attachment 142481
> 
> 
> 
> ...


many thanks sir


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

This should help you decipher you fisher body tag.
GM Body Tag Decoding : Drivin' It Home


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

Jim K said:


> This should help you decipher you fisher body tag.
> GM Body Tag Decoding : Drivin' It Home


thanks 

anyway,
everything is clear, all I have to do is find out what that means - 232 Unknown - what option is this? .... cant find any info till now,but will keep trying


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

I've already tried here - https://www.xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/1969-Pontiac-Accessorizer-Booklet.pdf
but there is no such number like 232


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I was incorrect when I said your car was built in Baltimore.
BT is Arlington Texas.
BAL is Baltimore

With regards to the numbers following the date code I was wrong as well. That only pertains to the 64-67 models. 

From The Chevelle Stuff website;

_From 1964 through 1967 some plants would include group option codes while others did not. Beginning in 1968 this feature disappeared as well. The group option codes were to indicate to Fisher Body that something had to be changed from the 'norm' to accommodate an option typically installed by the final assembly line. This could be anything from noting tinted glass (all) or just tinted windshield; a different transmission (automatic or floor shifted manual) required modifications to either major dash assembly or floor pans; air conditioning required a different dash as well as firewall; even something as simple as a rear antenna required the hole to be marked in the passenger side quarter panel for the mounting. Optional equipment that required no modifications or installation by Fisher Body (such as a standard radio) were not noted in these group options.






Trim Tags


Decoding Chevrolet VIN, trim tags, cowl tags, engine, engine block casting numbers, cylinder head casting numbers, intake manifold casting numbers, transmission, interior codes, and paint codes.




www.chevellestuff.net




_
My apologies.


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

O52 said:


> I was incorrect when I said your car was built in Baltimore.
> BT is Arlington Texas.
> BAL is Baltimore
> 
> ...


Not a problem Sir

Thanks anyway


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## Vasiliy (Nov 10, 2020)

A little bit of updates  

A lot of work is done, but Still a lot to go.... 

May i ask you for some help... Will be frame off resto 

Like i said i Did this before many times, but only on jap Classic cars... This is my first american rodeo  

If anyone allready got a full list for all parts i will need, Please let me have it 

If anyone got engine rebuild(probably will go for Butlers) list, suspension rebuild list, trans rebuild list, drivechain rebuild list, interior rebuild list or any list, Please help me

I am asking for this, coz like i said, i am from Bulgaria, and will be ordering all of the part from US.... Not gonna be easy, but at the end of the day i have do it..... So in this case all help is wellcome 

Thanks in advance


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