# spun bearing! bad filter? and a question for the rebuild



## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

before you flame me i'll flame myself. :shutme i used a fram filter and got a disapointed look when i dropped off my block

i learned the Fram filters and very restrictive and basically starved my engine of oil. at least thats what he thinks, i cut it open and i could scoop out the brass with a spoon  i dropped the pan and it was a mess. looked like somone dumped yellow and silver glitter in it... i never used a fram before and i figured i'd go cheap. it got about 2k miles on the filter before i noticed the tapping.

anyone else hear anything like this? the machinist recomended K&N or Wix filters.

it could have been a combination of things, but now i'm trying to figure out if i can keep my low end or if i need a whole new rotating assembly.

its tough, but i'll make it through it.

ok; question! since i'm basicaly rebuilding now, I want to go N/A. how much power should I be able to get with no power adders on pump gas (93*)? :confused this is what i got, opened up 243 heads, all the bolt ons (kooks long headers, wilson fast 90mm, 90mm MAF ect.) i was putting 500hp to the wheels before. what can i get out of it when it is maxxed out? is 600 rwhp too much to ask?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I use fram filters all the time. It sounds like your engine was coming apart and the filter did what it was supposed to do, catch all the debris. But, then it got clogged and restricted and lost flow. Good luck on the rebuild.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

With the scenario you described, any filter you could have purchased would have likely looked the same when you cut it open. There's a lot of urban legend in that 'don't use Fram' mentality.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

HP11 said:


> With the scenario you described, any filter you could have purchased would have likely looked the same when you cut it open. There's a lot of urban legend in that 'don't use Fram' mentality.


My cousin went to an automotice tech school. The took apart different brand filters and came to the conclusing that Fram are near the bottom of the list... but def will not be the ultimate reason for a motor to fry.

OP, you got alot of work ahead of you. You will have to do a complete tear down and take everytihng to a shop to make sure the shavings didn't do too much damage and possible have some machining done.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd say the damage maybe came from over-revving, possibly with no load. Like you see in those exhaust clips were they just rev the crap out of it with no load, not the best thing to do, but alot of people think it's safe.


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

Rukee said:


> I'd say the damage maybe came from over-revving, possibly with no load. Like you see in those exhaust clips were they just rev the crap out of it with no load, not the best thing to do, but alot of people think it's safe.


:agree

Absolutely one of the worst things you can do to your engine. I don't even blip my throttle; useless wear and tear.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I've been using FRAM filters for close to 40 years never a problem. I use K&N on the '05.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

jpalamar said:


> My cousin went to an automotice tech school. The took apart different brand filters and came to the conclusing that Fram are near the bottom of the list...


The only thing that statement, and others like it accomplishes is to further the 'legend'. Your cousin went to an automotive tech school not some type of consumer product testing facility. They concluded that Fram was at 'bottom of the list'. Based on what? They didn't like the looks of them? What was their testing criteria? What equipment was used to collect and chart the data? I'm sure that Fram has industry standards to meet just like the rest of the fitler manufacturers. I'm also sure that if their filters could be directly linked to engine failures, they have a lot of product liability lawsuits on the books against them. I just haven't seen any evidence of that. All I've ever heard is 'don't use Fram, they're bad' followed by a lot of he said/she said/heresay as an explaination......


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Lubrication system has a bypass in an event the filter becomes restricted so that will rule out the filter. You would also would have got a low oil pressure message if the engine was starving of oil. Two things I've learned that will spin a bearing 1)Insufficiant oil pressure 2)Cold engine abuse. Engine oil has to be at operating temp before doing anything sprited with it.

I've used Fram for years on my Mitsu without problems.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

HP11 said:


> The only thing that statement, and others like it accomplishes is to further the 'legend'. Your cousin went to an automotive tech school not some type of consumer product testing facility. They concluded that Fram was at 'bottom of the list'. Based on what? They didn't like the looks of them? What was their testing criteria? What equipment was used to collect and chart the data? I'm sure that Fram has industry standards to meet just like the rest of the fitler manufacturers. I'm also sure that if their filters could be directly linked to engine failures, they have a lot of product liability lawsuits on the books against them. I just haven't seen any evidence of that. All I've ever heard is 'don't use Fram, they're bad' followed by a lot of he said/she said/heresay as an explaination......


I'll see if he has the pics and tests the did. I know they had oil samples and everything. Nothing came back so horrible that there would ever be issues and they did pass spec, but others passed way higher. It had a good bit of technical info when I saw it a few years back. Like you said, its a big company and if they truely were the reason for engine failure, they would be in a bad spot.

EDIT: http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html#warning
This isn't the study they did but it does have alot of good info and some of the major results I remember him showing me are in this as well.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

I've read and seen most of those studies. The wrong conclusion is generally drawn from them. Bottom line is that a Fram won't make you blow your engine. At worst, they'd necessitate more frequent oil/filter changes. Personally, I use Wix or Napa filters but I wouldn't shy away from Fram.


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

well, my low oil light never cam on, and i don't have an after market oil gauge. so i don't know if it ever actully got to low pressure. i do think it was beeing bypassed for a while, that oil filter was so full of brass i could scoop it out with a spoon. the pan had chunks all over it too.

It has 73k miles on it now, and i really don't know who had it before me or how it it was treated. i've only put 10k miles on it since i owned it.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

If the filter was that full, then the motor must have been make some noise for a while, they don't just shread the bearings in 10 seconds, it takes a bit of abuse to shread them to the point it fills the filter and then by-passes it.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

motoristx said:


> well, my low oil light never cam on, and i don't have an after market oil gauge. so i don't know if it ever actully got to low pressure. i do think it was beeing bypassed for a while, that oil filter was so full of brass i could scoop it out with a spoon. the pan had chunks all over it too.
> 
> It has 73k miles on it now, and i really don't know who had it before me or how it it was treated. i've only put 10k miles on it since i owned it.


That motor had already been hurt prior to you getting it, unless you beat on it that bad. LS motors will run forever if they are maintained.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

motoristx said:


> i've only put 10k miles on it since i owned it.


Have you changed the oil and filter since you have owned it? It is alot of damage to just suddenly happen. There had to be warning signs... CEL or atleast some weird noices leading up to this.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

motoristx said:


> well, my low oil light never cam on, and i don't have an after market oil gauge. so i don't know if it ever actully got to low pressure. i do think it was beeing bypassed for a while, that oil filter was so full of brass i could scoop it out with a spoon. the pan had chunks all over it too.
> 
> It has 73k miles on it now, and i really don't know who had it before me or how it it was treated. i've only put 10k miles on it since i owned it.


Well there you go. If the low oil pressure message never came on you had good oil pressure. If the filter was full of debris it was doing its job. 

Number one thing people like to do is race the motor right at start up that is the number one no-no. We don't have priority main oil system in our engine so the main bearings get oil pressure last.


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

i noticed some vibration for only a few days, i was trying to trace it out before all this happened. i thought it was just bad mounts (all but one are shreded). yea, i changed the opil right wehen i got it and changed it at least by the 5k interval with full synthetic. I keep on top of maintenance. how ever, I did get on it a little more often then my old car, but i never redlined it. never even took it to the track, just had it dynoed at a local shop. 

I think after this build, i'll know what is in it, and i'll know excatly how it was taken care of, so that if it happens again, i'll have more info on whats it's been through.

what can i expect from an NA engine maxxed out? is 600rwhp too much to ask? i had 500 at the last dyno tune.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

500 HP at the last tune? That could explain the damage. If the car lived as a tuner car, then a bad tune or too much nitrous may have hurt the motor. I have a tuned GTO for sale in my area with too much money in it and a fresh LS-2 in it, 3K miles. The amount of times he has complained about bad tunes and "getting it right finally" makes me avoid it like the plague.


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## motoristx (Apr 27, 2010)

it hasn't seen Nitrous yet, it's an NA car. I just think the guy who had it before me ragged it out. it also had a "bad tune" for the first few hundred miles, while I had that "bad tune" it threw a code for detenation and ran in limp mode a few times before i took it in to have it done right. Not to mention it died when cold all the time.

i just think it was falling apart. and if the filter started bypassing, it circulated some dirty oil wich finnished it off. 

Since my first post, i've gotten a lot of feedback, both from friends on this website, and friends in my everyday life. I'm thinking 2 things, either somone jacked it up with a rebuild in a the past (yes i think it was built) and/or the guy who had it before me ragged it out before he sold it. 

everyone is telling me that an LS2 should last a good long time when maintained right, of course i know nothing will last long if you ragg it out all the time. this is however my first LS2 :cheers


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