# Steering Box Ratio/Conversion



## MAP53 (Nov 10, 2013)

My power steering gear box has a leak from the bottom where the shaft comes out. I checked and my car has a tad more than 4 turns from lock to lock. I have read here that the box can be converted to a quick ratio. I got on Power Steering.com site and read about the conversion and that it would result in about 3 turns or a bit less from lock to lock. If what I saw was correct it cost about $369 plus shipping for this with "standard detailing".

I went to several auto parts web sites (Advance, NAPA, Orielly, Rock ) They all sell both the 4 turn box or the 2 3/4-3 turn boxes rebuilt with a lifetime warranty for anywhere from $129-134 plus a $45-59 core charge (more or less). 

I have seen recommendations on here about the work that Power Steering.com does, and can appreciate that. 

I guess I am wondering if the difference in costs is worth it. I can apply a $30 discount code to the Advance box and have it delivered for $155 all in and keep my original box.

Any thoughts on this? 

Thanks
Mark


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## 66MichiganTempestC (Feb 1, 2012)

If you're going the route with buying a reman box, make sure you get the right one. The quick ratio steering boxes aren't always the same. The input shaft can vary, that's the obvious part, but other than that, they can vary in the internal stops. Most of the F-body boxes had a longer pitman arm which was adressed with a smaller steering angle of the box. Smaller angle compared with a longer arm resulted approx. in the same turning radius like a bigger angle and a shorter pitman arm.
So, some boxes will have different internal stops, which can result in a quick steering ratio, but a bigger turning radius of your goat than with your stock unit.



Raphael


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## rvp986 (Sep 19, 2012)

He does a fine job and you will get a "life-time" warranty, (to the original owner). Here's a copy of my invoice. You can see I spent a few bucks and did it all. I figured why not... total frame off with no bolt unturned. I am impressed with his work and results. Good Luck with your decision.


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## MAP53 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks for the information. I called Cardone hdqts. today and spoke to the tech dept. I was advised that their 27-6509, 2 1/2-3 turn lock to lock box was indeed the quick ratio and not a internal stop that limited travel. The box is supposed to be a direct replacement for the original box and has a lifetime warranty. If there should be a issue it is a bunch easier to carry the box 3 miles to the store than to pay for shipping back to Missouri. Given the price is less than half and I get to keep my original box too I think I'll roll the dice. My car at this point is not a "nut and bolt" restoration but it is a real nice car. I am currently doing the complete restoration thing on a Corvette:thumbsup: and just want the GTO to be mechanically reliable in order to enjoy. I have too many projects going on now to get too deep into this car. Maybe after the Corvette and Boss 302 are done it will get it's turn


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I put a standard ratio Cardone box in my '67 about 4 years ago and it was $138. No issues after 5000 miles or so. A friend put a non-Cardone box in his '67, a quick ratio, and I don't care for it. It has much less turning radius than stock, which '66 pointed out can be an issue. As a side note, the Cardone box isn't as overboosted as the factory box, so there is more road feel, which is a plus.


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## MAP53 (Nov 10, 2013)

This box has the same turning radius as the old box, that's why I called them, I wanted to make sure. Ratio is different radius is same, maybe the old goat will not drive so much like a truck now. I guess we get spoiled with rack and pinion.


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## rexs73gto (Nov 25, 2012)

If you want a good box with a quick turning radius just go to your local junk yard & buy a box out of an 87, 88, 89 Trans Am, or a 96 caprice police package car, or any late modle jeep Grand cherokee & you will save your self a lot of money because they generally only cost about $ 50.00 to get & they will bolt right up & you'll be ready to go. These boxs will give you a 2 1/2 to 3 turn lock to lock & good road feel plus save you a lot of money.


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## MAP53 (Nov 10, 2013)

New box arrived yesterday. I hope to get it installed this weekend. I will measure the turning radius before and after and report back. 

I checked and I have a pitman arm puller and the steering coupler looks good so all I should need is some fluid to get this deal done.


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## MAP53 (Nov 10, 2013)

I started the steering box replacement today. First order of business was to check the travel of the 2 1/2 turn box compared to the old 4 turn box, it is the same about 75 degrees or so. I was nervous about the stories of internal stops and the like but both boxes will turn the wheels the same amount in this case.

Now then it looks like the pump has a small leak, and the pressure hose is old and tired. So I just ordered a pump, steering coupler, and pressure hose. I guess this stuff can't last forever. I figure 45 years of service on some of it is pretty good.

One question on the coupler, there is a strap connecting the parts of the coupler, I suppose it is a ground for something like maybe the horn. It looks like the replacement doesn't have that, any thoughts?

Mark


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## MAP53 (Nov 10, 2013)

I have the Cardone box installed, all is well, 2.5 turns lock to lock, same pitman arm travel as the old box and it sure drives better. I replaced the pump, rag joint and both hoses, bead blasted and painted all the brackets and pulleys as well. I decided to change out all the tie rod ends and adjusters. All the stuff came from Advance Auto Parts, O'Riellys and Autozone. All in I have $398 into this project which includes alignment, and I kept my old steering box and P/S pump.

The only problems that I ran into is the pressure hose and the part number of the pump are not correctly listed and I had to call Cardone tech assistance twice to get the correct listing on the pump. To match the old parts removed I had to order a hose for a 71 GTO and a pump for a 66 GTO. I can't explain it but it all matched what came off the car.


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

Resurrecting an old thread here. I installed the 27-6509 in my '68 GTO, turning radius is now enormous, a 3 point turn is a 7 point turn.
Any ideas?
Edit: I called Cardone, they verified 27-6509 is the correct part number for 2 1/2 -3 turns for my '68.
They asked if i could measure the pitman arm sweep angle, it should be 90 deg, it could be 72 deg.
Stay tuned....


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

I measured the pitman sweep angle ,~ 70 deg, and then spoke with Cardone Tech Support, sent pics with my plastic protractor. They are going to look into why this steering box doesn't have the 90 deg pitman arm sweep angle, Tech Support said it should have the 90 deg sweep.


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

Cardone told me to return the 27-6509 and order the 4 turns unit if i wanted stock turn radius.
I guess i'll see if i can order a JGC unit and get the adapter fittings.


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

I returned the 27-6509 box to Advanced and purchased a Jeep Grand Cherokee 27-7525, Ordered the Borgeson GM Inverted Flare Adapter Fitting Set 952155, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-925122, and the Lars 200 Steering Coupler.
Installed the box and coupler with out issue, it seems to be over three turns, my original one was just under 4, why am i doing this???
The Adapter Fittings have three items in the package, two measure out to be the same and the other smaller with a smaller ID. Why are there three? Why no instructions?
I deduce the smaller one goes in the return, Low Pressure, side and has plenty of thread.
One of the larger ones goes in the high Pressure side, seems to have only two or so threads.
Stared it up and the HP leaks where HP hose attaches to steering box.
Tightened, still leaks.
Tightened more, now threads are stripped, again why did i do this????
Can some one tell me if your HP hose threads in only two or so threads?
Do i have an issue with steering box?
Do i have an issue with the Borgeson Adapters?
When Borgeson adapter is NOT in steering box the HP fitting goes in about five threads.
Any Ideas?
Thanks


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

After some more reading i find there are Fittings, not adapters, these screw into the steering box, not set in, and the flared hose screws into the fitting.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-A0qQPefYxShMYLubcIdo3CR5dRl70zxoCFFwQAvD_BwE

I'm guessing the press in section OD on the Borgeson Adapter is larger than the ID in the steering box on the HP fitting because the adapter doesn't set in a hole and drop in far enough. The adapter sets in the threaded area of the steering box.


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

Just got off the phone with Gil at Borgeson, he stated Adapter should fit into the hole down to the collar and the OD should be 0.390 in.
I'll measure the box HP hole diameter and see if i'm off by a little or a lot, i may need to remove a little form the diameter or order the external Fittings.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

From a Chevelle site. Maybe you have the wrong steering box? These are the correct years and the Alpha Code is a factory applied sticky decal stamped with the 2-letter code on top of the box and what to look for when junkyard hunting. I don't think a re-manufactured box is gonna have the factory sticker still in place and buying parts from a parts store can be that it'll be listed as a fit, but not really the correct item.

The box should be 3-turns from lock to lock. Make sure you are using the power steering pitman arm which I would think you have seeing your car was already equipped with power steering.

The Lars 200 rag joint is the one I used with my application.


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## John Schutt (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks for the response, as you stated who knows what I have.
I measured the HP side steering box, it was 0.401” dia. I ended up chucking the Borgeson HP fitting up in my lather and made the collar 0.100” shorter, which made the 0.390” diameter 0.100” too long, so I made that 0.100” shorter.
Well it doesn’t leak, but I haven’t had a chance to drive it yet.


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