# Engine runs rough, no power at all



## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

A little history to begin with: 
Car has been garaged for 6 months, previously it run perfectly fine and I have never had any issues. 
Mods during this 6 month period: IAT relocate, changed fuel pump, changed spark plugs. 

Car is FI and I have dual fuel pumps, one in tank and one Bosch 044 in surge up front. 

So started her up and it runs really really rough. Idle is pretty steady but it feels like i am on 7 cylindars with no fuel at all. If i try pushing the pedal a little it backfires and runs like crap no acceleration whatsoever and it feels like the engine doesn´t get any fuel. Like the tank was full of water. It hesitates back and forth

So i tried swapping my stock fuel pump back, no improvment.. I checked my wideband sensor and it looks good around 9.8 for E85. When revving it ad idle it also looks good 

No misfires on any of the cylindars. 

Took her for a slow ride aprox 20 miles, checked the spark plugs and they look allright. Checked coolant and it is full, checked the oil of the dipstick... no issues. 

But, when I changed oil after 5 months of garaging it looked kinda milky, but the coolant level really seems rock steady though. 

water is coming out of the exhaust, car does not "cook" if i let it sit still on idle for a while. 

I do not have any error codes at all. 

FP is rock steady

It doesn´t seem to be a fuel related isssue, I have no misfires so it shouldn´t be an ignition issue. Could it be the head gasket despite my non existing issues with the coolant. 

Thanks!


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## trues607 (Dec 15, 2012)

You're definitly getting water in the oil if it's milky. I would do a compression check first. I would also suggest to do a pressure test at the radiator as well.

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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Yeah but the thing is: that specific oil have looked milky in other cars aswell. I usually never use it in the GTO except for passing emissions. That why I thought it would show with the new oil and a little trip of 20 miles. 

But a compression test is a good advice. Will do! Thanks



trues607 said:


> You're definitly getting water in the oil if it's milky. I would do a compression check first. I would also suggest to do a pressure test at the radiator as well.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## trues607 (Dec 15, 2012)

Well good luck to you. Let me know what you find.

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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks alot, and will do!


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

It's the IAT sensor circuit I'll bet. If the circuit is open. It will run horribly thinking it's 40 below out. Check or reconnect your original set up and see.


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

svede1212 said:


> It's the IAT sensor circuit I'll bet. If the circuit is open. It will run horribly thinking it's 40 below out. Check or reconnect your original set up and see.


I thought so too until I hooked up hp tuners and my heat gun on the omega thermistor. It reacted lightning fast. But I haven't tried connecting it back to stock. Do you think it could be that causing it even though it reacts fast on temp changes? I only scanned the IAT temp


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi guys, now I have mad a compression test. number 1 is closest to the driver and so on without any notice of the cylindars real number

left side (driving direction)

1: 13.9
2: 13.5
3: 13.2
4: 13.8

right side

1: 13:9
2: 13.5
3: 13.2
4: 13.8

SInce we probably don´t use the same units the tolerable value for a high compression engine is a value of 1.0 and a low compression is a value of 0.7 
I cranked the engine approx 6 cycles on each cylindar and i am completely certain that none of the values are below 13 and none of the values are higher than 14

I am also fairly certain i am not loosing any coolant. So i guess the gasket is fine. 

When i removed one of the spark plugs it pretty much fell apart in the porcelain, it was a almost brand new NGK and it have worked according to the white combustion on it (E85)

SO i will begin with buying 8 new spark plugs, Could it also be bad fuel? Could it be the IAT even though it seems to work when using a heat gun on it.

I cannot really describe how bad the car actually runs so I am a bit surprised over the good compression test


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

I believe your problem is bad fuel, add some octane boost and drive the car to burn the remaining fuel. Then fill with the highest octane gasoline you can find.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

If you scanned through the OBDII port and you got normal temp readings the IAT isn't it sadly. That would have been an easy fix. For octane boost don't buy those little cans of stuff that hardly do anything. Make your own 

Homebrew Octane Boosters


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

It pretty much feels like that when driving. I did fill up half a tank with new E85 though but if the other half got alot of moisture in it i guess it will not be any difference. 

Although I am running E85 so i guess no octane booster nor injector cleaner would do any good. However i am using the redline E85 additive to lubricate the pump and injectors. 

Thanks for all advices, anything else you could think of? 

So far i will change spark plugs, try stock IAT location, burn up the remaining fuel. 





05GTO said:


> I believe your problem is bad fuel, add some octane boost and drive the car to burn the remaining fuel. Then fill with the highest octane gasoline you can find.


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Well i followed your guide for the Omega thermistor and i have to say that it worked like a champ . Yep scanned through the obd2 and the temp reading changed lightning fast when adding some heat towards the thermistor.

Although i guess i´m glad that I probably not have to change the head gasket. 




svede1212 said:


> If you scanned through the OBDII port and you got normal temp readings the IAT isn't it sadly. That would have been an easy fix. For octane boost don't buy those little cans of stuff that hardly do anything. Make your own
> 
> Homebrew Octane Boosters


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## trues607 (Dec 15, 2012)

That's great to hear that it was nothing too major. At least now you know its not the head gaskets.

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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks, it was a good suggestion to make a compression test

I´ll get back once i´ve had the time trying all out. 



trues607 said:


> That's great to hear that it was nothing too major. At least now you know its not the head gaskets.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## trues607 (Dec 15, 2012)

You just never know. I always try the easiest problems first before you spend all your time chasing. Good luck to you:thumbup:

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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

How is it you can run E85? Tune?


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Rukee said:


> How is it you can run E85? Tune?


Yeah, been running it for 3 years almost. Never had any issues whatsoever except with the maf. Same tune since 1 and a half years. Uploaded it again in the ecu just to be safe nothing was reset since the battery was off for 6 months. But same issue. We have e85 everywhere and it is alot cheaper than gas


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

So guys, it was actually the spark plugs. I cannot belive it... One or two must have been completely dead since the ecu usually is really good on reporting the issues. Put in some bp7efs and the engine runs great again. I usually use br7ef but they are a bit more expensive. Thanks for all help and to be honest I didn't for a second think that spark plugs was the only issue. The car must have been running on 6 cylindars.


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## trues607 (Dec 15, 2012)

Thats great to hear. Alot cheaper than expected. Enjoy.

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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I didn't realize you could run E85 with just a tune. :confused
Don't most cars/trucks that run it have some sort of sensor in the fuel rail to tell which fuel it is? Or do they do that with the O2 sensors?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> If you scanned through the OBDII port and you got normal temp readings the IAT isn't it sadly. That would have been an easy fix. For octane boost don't buy those little cans of stuff that hardly do anything. Make your own
> 
> Homebrew Octane Boosters


So, according to that, if I add 30% Toulene or Xylene to my 21.5 gal tank, I'm going to add 6.45gals??


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

*Issue is back*

So I was celebrating a bit in advance. Issue is back and i am leaning towards a intermittent ignition coil. why? The reason the car was running better with new spark plugs was most likely beause i gapped them at 0.32 instead of 0.40which i have been running previously. smaller gap should help a bad ignition coil 

Test nr 2 swap all 8 10mm spark plug wires towards the stock wires. Car runs worse, it is a big difference (probably because of the low resistance in the 10 mm cables) 

I am pretty much talking myself into buying 8 new coils.... Could it be anything else? I hate the fact that the car is not throwing a code. I know it isn´t fuel related because sometimes the car runs rather good on high rpms. it gets worse when heated up and so on and the car backfires. 

What do you guys think?


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

since you command an AFR equal to E85, for example 9.8 you do not need a sensor. however you will not be able to run on gas either without a remap. The O2:s will continue doing their job against the new commanded afr.

I wouldn´t say it is a small tune "job" since you have to remake alot of the tables, you cannot reuse anything in thoose tables which you could when running on gas. 



Rukee said:


> I didn't realize you could run E85 with just a tune. :confused
> Don't most cars/trucks that run it have some sort of sensor in the fuel rail to tell which fuel it is? Or do they do that with the O2 sensors?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I don't know your setup but having two plugs fail would tell me they were old or the wrong heat range. Have you tried TR6 plugs? What boost are you running?


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Well that was only specualtion, the fact was that one plug fell apart in the porcelain, so that one probably didn´t work at all. Combined with the error still being there it pretty much felt like having 6 cyl. So it hasn´t been a matter of fouling the plug. 

With new plugs the problem is by far better, but it still hesitates and by the extreme amount of fuel exploding in the exhaust when accelerating I suspect it has to be the ignition. 

I am running br7ef, I like them better than TR6. It´s 10PSI of boost. Have been running them for a year approx without issues



svede1212 said:


> I don't know your setup but having two plugs fail would tell me they were old or the wrong heat range. Have you tried TR6 plugs? What boost are you running?


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

by a coincident i noticed my spark advanced drops to 5 degrees timing everytime i push the throttle. spark is fine when cruising and at idle but as soon as i push it it drops like a rock. more at low rpm but annoyingly much at high rpm aswell. 

No knock retard, burst knock zeroed out, this beats me!!!

crap.doc is a hpl file, in the middle at 1200rpm i push the throttle and timing drops to 5 degree immediately


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## Hammerstone (Jun 16, 2013)

Might try to get it in complete darkness and see if you have a bad wire somewhere arcing out under the hood.


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## Richtenb (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi i have tried 3 different setups of wires. So unfortunateley not. I am into changing the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft sensor now. I have to try something and it isn´t the tune. It could very well be the ECU also. No error codes so this sucks



Hammerstone said:


> Might try to get it in complete darkness and see if you have a bad wire somewhere arcing out under the hood.


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## Hammerstone (Jun 16, 2013)

I'd check fuel pressures, filters etc.

If you're getting backfiring, that would almost indicate a timing issue would it not?


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