# Heya guys.



## Matt (Jan 10, 2006)

Hi all, n00b here. Sorry to make this my first post, but, that's the way it's gotta' be. I have an '04 Goat and recently got a ticket from a cop on a power trip. I removed the mufflers, and he wrote me a ticket for illegal exhaust, which I am fighting. Is there any chance that anyone on here has a picture of a GTO with stock exhaust resembling the picture below? Car color doesn't matter, or really anything other than whether or not the car has stock exhaust (I'm a photoshop pro ). If any of you can help me out, I would really appreciate. Thanks in advance all!

-Matt


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

Matt said:


> I have an '04 Goat and recently got a ticket from a cop on a power trip. I removed the mufflers, and he wrote me a ticket for illegal exhaust, which I am fighting.


Illegal in what way? Emissions? The mufflers won't have anything to do with that. Too loud? Nothing you can do to fight that. If it's too loud, it's too loud. You shouldn't have pissed him off.


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## DallasSleeper (Jan 3, 2006)

Actually, the cops ear is not calibrated... he doesn't have a decible meter implanted in his brain... 

city ordnance here is x amount of feet away from the vehicle but it is a hard one for the police to prove, Some other citys use a certain volume but there is no way for the officer to prove his case. Most that are fought will be won.


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

Here you go.....










and a non-stock yellow '05er....


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Thanks, PA Goat. Was looking for that jack point diagram the other day.


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## Matt (Jan 10, 2006)

Thanks for the pic! I should be able to workout something with that. 

All it said was "Illegal Exhaust", didn't specify. Yay Colorado police.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

He/she should have also written a number on the ticket, which showed exactly which law was broken. For most, it's a number like 523.20 or something. If that's the case, look up the exact law he says you broke and then see if it's a subjective law or something you can prove that you DIDN'T do. I suspect that you're just screwed though. An excessive noise violation doesn't count toward your total points, so you won't lose your license over it. It's more of a nuisance ticket than anything else. I'd also bet you're really not gaining much horsepower by not running any mufflers vs running some high-flow mufflers (which would keep you legal). Now, if that's an emissions ticket, you're probably just SOL.


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## jacobyb (Jan 2, 2006)

I'm a cop here in L.A. and I can tell you what the rules are here. You have to have mufflers in California. Noise is not even an issue. It is just a requirement by the CADOT that you have to have a muffler. Colorado is probably the same in that regards.

Also, although the cops ears are not "calibrated" they are able to hear when a car is obviously louder than allowed. It is then up to you to prove that it is legal.


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## DallasSleeper (Jan 3, 2006)

Guilty until proven innocent?


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## jacobyb (Jan 2, 2006)

DallasSleeper said:


> Guilty until proven innocent?



I should clarify. (Thank's for the PM).

When you are cited by a cop for an infraction, you are then burdened with having to prove that the charges against you are false. Not the other way around. For example, when you are cited for speeding and go to court, I say what I observed, then you give your side. I have the law to prove what I am saying. You have to prove that I am mistaken.

In the case of this specific issue, I have the PC tp pull you over for a very loud car, then while inspecting the vehicle I find that you have no mufflers. I document that and present it to the court. Now, it is up to you to prove that I am mistaken.

You are always considered innocent until proven guilty under the law, however, once you are acused, you have to beat the accusation somehow.


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

jacobyb said:


> I should clarify. (Thank's for the PM).
> 
> When you are cited by a cop for an infraction, you are then burdened with having to prove that the charges against you are false. Not the other way around. For example, when you are cited for speeding and go to court, I say what I observed, then you give your side. I have the law to prove what I am saying. You have to prove that I am mistaken.
> 
> ...


Sarge is just boning up on his cop stuff!!!!! HAHAHA

I know that California is a tough state for exhaust and fin stuff like that. I agree that the mufflers should stay with a high flow and save the trouble and generally make the car sound better.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

I got one of these, fought it and won, the cop was on the same type of power trip (he went to the extreme of following me home  ). If you fight it you'll win, bring in a reciept that shows you bought an exhaust system and you'll be fine.


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

I got stopped for speeding in my '99 Firehawk by a Euless cop. He made a comment that the car sounded good, not stock, and asked me what I had done. I told him it was the Loudmouth from SLP and he said, "cool." No ticket for noise, but I did deserve the speeding ticket.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

:cheers Why not put a cat back system on, take a pic to court, with receipt of purchase/install. I'd bet they'd be inclined to dismiss. Win / Win, and you get a few ponies in the process:cheers


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## Matt (Jan 10, 2006)

Thanks for your input, all. The thing about all this is that he never once looked underneath my car. He based his decision purely off of his "In-Ear DB Meter" that I guess our local police officers are having surgically added.  

I'm doubting he will even show up, in which case, case dismissed..:willy: If he does show up, hopefully the pics that I'm whipping together will be enough.


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## DallasSleeper (Jan 3, 2006)

jacobyb, thanks for the post...


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

I would advise against photoshopping a muffler onto your car. If you introduce a picture into evidence, then for whatever reason the judge wants to actually SEE the car, you're gonna be guilty of perjury. That comes with some jail time.


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## DallasSleeper (Jan 3, 2006)

Yeah I am not a fan of going into a courtroom and lieing or presenting false evidence...


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

Westell had about the best suggestion on here...get the catback, slap it on and be legal. Otherwise you're taking a HUGE risk over something that really isn't worth it. A good cat-back will be as good as running open pipes anyway, and it'll be legal. Save your $$ for the speeding tickets you're bound to get.


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

Matt said:


> Thanks for your input, all. The thing about all this is that he never once looked underneath my car. He based his decision purely off of his "In-Ear DB Meter" that I guess our local police officers are having surgically added.
> 
> I'm doubting he will even show up, in which case, case dismissed..:willy: If he does show up, hopefully the pics that I'm whipping together will be enough.


Maybe he did and you just didn't notice. Maybe he'll say he did regardless and then it's his word against yours. (He's a cop, he wins.)

I wouldn't present doctored photos either. Very dangerous, not to mention dishonest.


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## Matt (Jan 10, 2006)

Dishonest? LOL.. you've NEVER lied to a cop before? :lol: 

I'll let you all know what happens.. thanks.


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## blue04gto (Jan 4, 2006)

It's not the point of lying to a cop, but in this case you are lying to a judge who will make a decision of a penalty or not, and you are under oath. If you are found presenting false evidence you will be sent to jail.

Also adding a catback isn't necessarily legal, unless it is an approved OEM aftermarket replacement. I live in California, and we have the strictest emmisions laws, and all aftermarket parts must be stamped with a california C.A.R.B. # to be a legal replacement part. Just because a company sells parts does'nt make them necessary for street or highway use. notice most headers and some catbacks do say in fine print "For offroad use only". Remember ,It's always the big print that will give it to you, but the fine print will take it away.

But if they cited you for the wrong infraction you should win if presented properly in court. Good Luck


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## Starrbuck (Dec 13, 2005)

Matt said:


> Dishonest? LOL.. you've NEVER lied to a cop before? :lol:


Er, no, I haven't.


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## DallasSleeper (Jan 3, 2006)

I don't think I have either


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## Matt (Jan 10, 2006)

Starrbuck said:


> Er, no, I haven't.


Okie dokie then. :cheers


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## teamgs (Dec 29, 2005)

Hey Matt,
Not trying to ruffle any feathers, but without actually having heard a GTO minus mufflers ("muffler delete" seems to be a relatively uncommon mod), I would think it pretty obvious that the sound ordinances would be exceeded with that configuration. From my point of view, this is one of those mods that is done, knowing that it is technically illegal, but with (a) the hope that one doesn't get caught, or (b) the assumption that the inevitable fine is factored into the equation.

Kind of like using a darker window tint than what is legal. I certainly couldn't get too angry with my local officer for ticketing me, if I knowingly put 35% tint on my front two windows, when 70% is the legal max here in Ca. 

I am not an attorney, but I would think your only case to fight the citation would be that the officer didn't inspect the vehicle, before pronouncing the exhaust "illegal". If it was a noise level citation in Ca., the officer can cite you, and you then have the right to go to a referee, and have a decible reading taken. If you are within limits, then you are cleared, but if not, then you have to repair it. Of course, in your case, the referee would immediately see the lack of mufflers, and fail you.  

Regards,

Gary


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