# WW code RAIV Block



## g90g00huf (Feb 16, 2011)

I have been researching my 400 engine block as follows:

Stamped Block code: WW
Stamped Production code: 0719693
Casting # 9790071
Date Code: D309
Stamped VIN code 29X155150

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but WW is the 1969 RAIV 400 cid 370hp, built April 30 1969. The "X" in the VIN denotes the KC Kansas Assy Plant (the VIN stamp is not very deep and only the top portion of the X is visible).

Currently, this rare engine is in my 1969 Trans Am Replica. Unfortunately, it has the 48 casting heads (not correct), but the distributor is #1111253 dated 9D24 (very close to the block casting date).

I would really like to know if this car still exists or it was junked. Any information that anyone would give would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

g90g00huf said:


> I have been researching my 400 engine block as follows:
> 
> Stamped Block code: WW
> Stamped Production code: 0719693
> ...


Hmmmm.... something in the milk here ain't cream. Sorry to be the one to tell you, but even though WW is indeed the RA IV engine code for model year 69, as your date code indicates, casting number 9790071 is a 2-bolt main block. A 'IV should have casting number 9792506 and would have 4-bolt mains.

I'd inspect that WW stamping and the area around it REALLY closely and look for evidence of tampering/re-stamping.

Bear


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## g90g00huf (Feb 16, 2011)

I too came across this discrepency but found on Wallace Racing's Pontiac Engine Code Search


1969 400 370 HP WW M 10.75 041 722 1-4 7029273 RA IV *Block Casting # 9792506 / 9790071 *

According to Wallace the 9790071 block was also used for WW the RAIV.

They also show the 071 block for the WH RAIV 345 HP.

*1969 400 345 HP WH M 10.75 041 722 1-4 7029273 RA IV Block Casting # 9792506 / 9790071 *

Also, at Pontiac Power

9790071 1968-69 400 265, 290, 330, 340, 350, 366 *2&4 *

They show that the 071 can be in both 2 & 4 bolt main configuration.

I have not pulled the pan to check whether it is 2 or 4 bolt.

I have VERY CAREFULLY analyzed the stampings and the original machine marks from block manufacture (I am a Tool & Die Maker and know machining very well) and they appear to be in tact and not altered.

This engine was in my 69 TA Replica when I bought it and if they were going to restamp, they surely would have stamped it with the TA WH RAIV code..... Very curious!!!

It is exactly this issue that I have posted this request for information and have very guarded optimism.

Thanks for your prompt response.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

g90g00huf said:


> I too came across this discrepency but found on Wallace Racing's Pontiac Engine Code Search
> 
> 
> 1969 400 370 HP WW M 10.75 041 722 1-4 7029273 RA IV *Block Casting # 9792506 / 9790071 *
> ...


Man, that's the thing ain't it? That's why I usually say to check multiple sites --- I did in this case, just not Wallace's. My 69 has a 9790071 and it's a 2-bolter. Maybe Mr. P will chime in on this one, whether he's seen 4-bolt versions in this casting?

I do hope you've got the 'good stuff' - I'd offer to sell you the heads you need to complete it, if'n I wasn't using them myself on my 461 

Bear


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## g90g00huf (Feb 16, 2011)

Frankly, when I boought the TA, I was thrilled that it was an 071 block with a good date code (correct for a 69 TA)!!!! I realy didn't care about the WW stamping at the time, but since I have started researching, it has raised more questions than answers!!!

Just speculating.... due to the low production #'s of the RAIV, could it be possible that they ran out of the 506 castings and due to time constraints used an 071 block for this order? I know for a fact that these things did happen occasionally back in the day. This might explain why most sites only show the 506 casting.

g90g00huff


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

heres a 70' WW 4 bolt that just sold on E-bay if that helps....i was watching it to see what i will have to pay for a correct block and heads if i get that Judge project...ouch, better start saving my pennies....

Original 1970 Pontiac GTO Ram Air IV WW Block NR! - eBay (item 160544943532 end time Feb-15-11 14:35:26 PST)


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

g90g00huf said:


> Frankly, when I boought the TA, I was thrilled that it was an 071 block with a good date code (correct for a 69 TA)!!!! I realy didn't care about the WW stamping at the time, but since I have started researching, it has raised more questions than answers!!!
> 
> Just speculating.... due to the low production #'s of the RAIV, could it be possible that they ran out of the 506 castings and due to time constraints used an 071 block for this order? I know for a fact that these things did happen occasionally back in the day. This might explain why most sites only show the 506 casting.
> 
> g90g00huff


Anything's possible I guess. I know the factory did some weird stuff back in the day. For example, they used the exact same block for both the 400 Ram Air III and a "low performance" 2-bbl 400 for the GP. Both drilled for 4-bolt mains, but the GP motor came with 2-bolt caps installed.

Bear


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## 69GTOCrystalRAIV (Jul 10, 2011)

Wanted to help clarify the Ram Air IV block casting number discussion. I wrote this quickly so please pardon any type-o or spelling errors! So hold on tight and read carefully, and don't panic until you read about the entire process described below. This is the brief version of the rest of the story on these Ram Air IV block casting numbers as it was done in manufacturing:

"All 1969 GTO Ram Air IV blocks" started life as a 9790071 casting, surprised, it's true, just wait and keep reading, there's more. This casting number starts off just as you see it on any 9790071 block with "raised embossed numbers" created in the casting mold. Now it gets really interesting: When a Ram Air IV was ordered, Pontiac sent the order to engine tier manufacturing plant in batches. To start, the orders were pulled from stock just as any other order for a completed and machined 9790071 bare casting. However, since the order from Pontiac states that it was to be a Ram Air IV order then the 9790071 block was taken back to machining. There the "embossed casting 9790071 number" was ground off with a hand grinder, that's right a hand grinder!!! Typically, "all 7 numbers" were ground off, however there are some that went out with just the "last four numbers" ground off, leaving the "embossed 979". Then the casting was "hand stamped" with the "new casting number 9792506" (or the 2506 following the embossed 979). Then the additional machine work was done to convert the block to a "four bolt main" block. Some other additional machine work was done as well to make it a Ram Air IV block, however, I won't disclose what this machine work is, as experts will always be able to spot the forgeries. This will help keep the values up on all the true Ram Air IV's that are left out there in the world.

Now to address the "block in question" here in this blog: The first thing I would do is contact PHS and see if they have the VIN of this block as a GTO or Firebird/Trans Am, you'll have to buy the PHS docs to find out. Then get the build sheet and see if 1. the car with this VIN was a Ram Air IV order and 2. check the block date code against the cars assembly date, the car build date will lag by weeks as the block casting is poured long before the car build is complete. But it won't be too far after the date and can't be before the date. As for the block casting number, if it is absolutely sure that the machine work on the front was not altered in any way then it is "extremely remotely possible", but "highly highly highly unlikely" that the block got out of engine casting and into engine assembly without the Ram Air IV grinding and re-stamping process being done. This is highly unlikely because the Quality Inspection Process, especially at tier level production it is extremely redundant to eliminate errors. So the block casting number stamp would have been inspected at least three times if not more during the process. The reason for this is that if the block got to the car assembly line incorrect it could hold up production and the tier production facility is then "back charged" enormous amounts of money. This is something that they simply could not afford financially to let happen. Their contracts in today's world typically included charge backs something like a "$10,000 per minute charge back for the line being down due to their product, then the charge back would escalate after twenty minutes to $90,000 per minute". This is an error the assembly plant would have more than likely noticed and would hold up production and result in time being taken for the car to be pulled from the line while reworked. With this in mind, I hate to say it, but it is most likely true that your block is an imitation. 

Also I wanted to clarify that the total number of Ram Air IV GTO's that were produced in 1969 was 759 and 37 in 1970. Then keep in mind that the Firebird/Trans Am Ram Air IV's were equipped with this same engine, the number sold in 1969 was 157 and 88 in 1970. The Ram Air IV was no longer available for Pontiacs in 1971. Then keep in mind that an "undisclosed number" of the Ram Air IV's engines were sold to racing entities as well, starting off as exactly the same motor and then typically being highly modified by the racing mechanics. So if my math is correct, that is a grand total of 1041 Ram Air IV engines built, again, not including the Ram Air IV's sold to racing entities that do show up for sale out there occasionally.

As for the Racing Ram Air IV's sold to a racing entities, the casting number will still be the correct 9792506 but there will not be a VIN stamped on the block as on your block, along with a few other small differences. 


Good luck to you and keep the Pontiacs alive...


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## HIFLYR (Oct 16, 2011)

Hello, new user here and long time Pontiac owner that still has his first car a 69 Firebird conv for 33 yrs. Anyway to my question I bought a 69 FB coup doner car when I was 17 originally a 350 car that was in the process of having a 400 put in it. When I got it home I decided to restore it and drove it for yrs and then gave it to my sister after taking out the 400 and replacing it with a 350. 

Now 30 yrs later I am just starting to restore my 69 conv and trying to decide what engine to use a modern LS or Poncho pwr so I decide to check out the 400 I pulled out of my 69 coupe 30 yrs ago and here is what I found.

Number on back rt of block 9792506, number on ft of block 0700711 with a XP in the middle below the number.

The heads have A139 one side has 48 on the ctr exh ports and the intake manifold has A279.
If I read the numbers correctly this is a 400 RA III correct?


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

#48 Heads were used on 350 HO. 400 HO. and 400 RAIII as well as the 428 370 HP in 1969 IIRC.

Maybe another member can shed some light on the block casting #'s.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

*XP* A-body 69 400 370 Turbo 400 L-67 1x4 *9792506* 4 GTO Judge Ram Air IV

Here's another source:
1969 400 370 HP *XP* A 10.75 041 722(head casting#) 1-4 7029270 RA IV Block Casting # *9792506* / 9790071


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## HIFLYR (Oct 16, 2011)

I am back in the shop today and my block is just like the description one of the previous guys gave. Now that I have the engine cleaned you can see where they ground off the cast letters/numbers and stamped the 9792506 on the block. If I did not know this engine as I have had it sitting in my dads shop for over 30 yrs I would think something is afoot. Thank God we never throw anything away!!! Can you get a PHS document for a engine? On the web site it seems only available for a car? Thanks for the help guys going to take the engine to Butler Performance and have ti checked out.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

One very important piece of information is the date code off the block (top rear, close to the distributor hole, same format as the head date codes). Some of the sources I've checked say that XP, 9792506 in model year 1969 was a Ram Air IV(!) - but as you've surmised those aren't Ram Air IV heads.

Let us know what you find for that date code.

Bear


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## HIFLYR (Oct 16, 2011)

Had a long conversation with one of the major Pontiac engine builders and have come to the conclusion that it is a 69 Ram Air IV block. The date code is D089, the casting number is 9792506 and the number on the front up high by the head is 0700711 with XP centered below the number. On the front buy the timing chain the number is 29R175675. It turns out to be a 69 GTO RAM AIR IV, AUTO He said he had not seen one in forever. Yea it sucks about the heads we had them re worked around 79 so I guess they were switched. I still have the transmission that was mated to it when we bought the car so hopefully it matches, that donor car certainly was a deal in 77 when we bought it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

So, what are your plans for this motor? We should stay in touch ---- I've got a pair of #722 heads you'd need to complete it, but I'm going to be using them on my car. If I ever decide to upgrade to some aluminum heads we might could work a deal - or I might be interested in buying your block. They were so rare, it'd be a shame for that motor to not have a chance to be complete.

Bear


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## HIFLYR (Oct 16, 2011)

BearGER
I am not sure what I want to do at this point I guess I am still in shock "you cannot believe how close I came to giving this engine to the scrap yard when I moved several yrs ago" If I keep it I would like to complete it. My favorite car of all time is tied between an Auburn Boattail SC and a 69 GTO, hidden head light with a his and hers may be fate is trying to tell me something. If I did let it go it would have to be to the right person/project. I might try to find the original car but since it was removed around 1976 odds are probably not good. Rest assured it is now resting in a heated and cooled part of my shop. I know it was running when I removed it from my 69 Firebird but I am going to remove the heads and pan and be sure it is properly set up for storage. Feel free to stay in touch [email protected]


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