# A question to smarter people than I



## shockers2 (Jun 2, 2015)

I just bought a 66 GTO project (I'm a Camaro guy, so my knowledge is limited on this), the original engine is missing but looks like most of the car is still there. My main question is what do I have and what type of restoration would be advised, see attached photos. I know these photos are not going to be the ones needed, any advice on which numbers needed would be appreciated. #No rust, Arizona car
So many things to remember, the engine has a 4b now, but the original tri power was in the trunk.


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

a '66 WT block is a 4bbl. manual trans. engine. whats the date code?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Welcome. Would highly recommend you order copy's of the factory invoice from PHS... Pontiac Historical Services. Looking at the trim tag, I really like the color, good chance the car is a 3spd manual car, and the 010 case Muncie 4 spd has been added. Not a big deal, tripower units were also often added by subsequent owners, as well. PHS will note how the car was originally optioned. 

From reading the trim tag, here is what I have:

'66 GTO hardtop, body built second week of Jan '66 out of Pontiac MI home plant. originally finished in starlight black, built w black bucket seat interior.

The lowest stamped line, the option line is unusually absent of a few characters. 
Usually, many times, one at least sees a W in the unnumbered 1st group, designating tinted windshield, then a 2 is often noted for the 2nd group. In the 2nd group there is often a character for a 4spd (L) or console (G). Have only ran across a very few '65-67's that skipped characters in the 1st hrough 4th groups, all the way to 5th group. Believe, 5Y is deluxe seat belts... can check. These body option codes were only used on trim tags out of the Fisher body plant at three Pontiac assembly plants for A-bodies for the '65-67 Pontiac Model years. Plants like Fremont did not use this very revealing system of body option codes.

Without looking at the date cast of the block, I can't hazard if the WT block is the original '66 block, or if a previous owner has picked the block up to use in the car. One thing for sure, it not a late '70 model, or 71-74 WT block. If you can, feel free and note the block date casting, a 4 digit alpha numeric code back beside the distributor hole. As so many '66 Pontiacs were built, even with a high assembly number, that may be where Pontiac plant was sequentially with blocks in mid Jan of '66.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Since you say you are a Camaro guy, the very 1st thing that comes to my mind is: Please don't put a Chevy motor in it ! 

So, do you wanna try to restore it to original for shows or resale ? Or do you just wanna build a fun street cruiser ? If you just want a cruiser, the build will be a lot easier and much cheaper. These old Goats are getting hard to find, in decent condition. So, even if you only want a cruiser, don't cut up or modify anything that is not easily returned to original. Cause later on down the road, you may decide to sell. If and when that time comes, you'll be glad you didn't do anything dumb. 

Now, for a cruiser only, you don't have to worry about any kind of numbers matching engine parts. The best engine combo might be a '71-'74, casting number 481988 400 block, and some '75-'79 6x casting heads. With these parts, you can build a very pump gas friendly 400, or you can build a stroker with 400+ hp. And, with the later block, you can sell the engine more easily, because it will bolt into most any '64 and later body that came with a Pontiac V8.

Or, if the 389 is usable, you can bore it .060 over and build a 400, with the later heads. Or you can put a stroker assembly in the 389 block, and have almost a 455. The options are almost endless. 

Butler Performance - Pontiac Engine & Rotating Assembly Combinations - Featuring Eagle Pontiac Kits


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## shockers2 (Jun 2, 2015)

*Thanks for the replys*

Factory invoice is on the way  I had no idea about these guys "PHS". Engine casting below.


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## shockers2 (Jun 2, 2015)

Hi oldskool, thanks for the reply. No worries, I am a original nut, no Chevy engine .
My main concern is that even tho I like the car, I don't want to over restore a "plain Jane" version. Plane Janes to me are a great cruising car, not really "show" cars, so I'm in the process of deciding which way to go. J


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

The date stamp is April 15, 1968, the casting 9790071 was used for 68 (360hp) and 69 (350hp) The letter code WT was also used for both years. Pontiac used the 8 bolt water pump in 68 and changed to the 11 bolt for 69. More than likely you have a 360hp 68 GTO block.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Definitely a late cast '68 WT. The code WT for '67-70 model years, designated the base 400 4bbl GTO engines rated at 350 gross horse. 

'68 360 horse GTO blocks were the 400 HO's, WS and YZ's, along with the '68 RA(I)'s, XS and XP codes.


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## shockers2 (Jun 2, 2015)

*Got the Data from PHS*

Here's the info from PHS
Radio-push button yet!
Custom seat belts
Rally wheels
HD 7 blade fan & fan clutch
Ride and handling package
Safe T Track rear axle
4 speed Man, fully synchronized
Tri power 389 cubic inch
Metallic brake linings
4.33 S code Gears
Black on Black
Sounds like could be a keeper!


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Congrats! Definitely a home run as a restoration oroject.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

*X2*

"imho a Tripower 4 speed with black on black is worthy of a proper frame-off..."



Yeah, I'll have to agree. This is a prime candidate for a complete restoration. So, you may wanna put it up for sale, to somebody with deep pockets.

You could then look for a driver condition project car, and make it your own. There are sometimes good deals around for Tempest and Lemans projects. You can build a Goat clone, or a sleeper Tempest.

But, if you decide to build a cruiser out of the car you have, be very careful, not to mess anything up, that can't be easily fixed. That way, when you decide to sell, it'll bring much more $$ for a resto project.

Since the engine is a 400, you can use it for a build, for any body style that doesn't require 3-bolt motor mounts. BUT, since it is probably a GTO engine, it also, is probably worth more to sell for a correct year resto project. With that money, you can either buy a good '71-'74 481988 block, to build a motor, or put that money on a crate motor.

You definitely got lots of decisions to make. 

Here's a '64 Lemans, which this guy drives to area shows and cruise-ins. It has a 455 /auto trans. He won 1st place in his class at our local show, the day I took this pic. No, it ain't a GTO. But it's lots of fun and has plenty of power.


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## Must_1 (Jun 5, 2015)

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and is looking for advice before I make a purchase of a 66 GTO. I was wondering if you can please help me with decoding the Plate. Everyone input will be greatly appreciated.

The vehicle is for sale and one thing that stood out is that it has a column shifter . I did a bit of research and found out some were made b/c if someone didn't purchased the console, it was standard for Pontiac to do it. Also, some people probably requested it b/c of their needs/wants, affordability, and etc. Just got he hang of posting a pic so will try now. Also, I will try to get its PHS. 

The car does seems to match up with the 224 Parchment seat/buckets with the Montero Red. Just need help with its authenticity and if I were to buy it, should I switch it to console. 

Thanks


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## Must_1 (Jun 5, 2015)

Just incase pics dont load, this is what it reads.

07B 491
ST 66 24217 BAL 8998
TR 224 R2
GD


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Must_1 said:


> Just incase pics dont load, this is what it reads.
> 
> 07B 491
> ST 66 24217 BAL 8998
> ...


With the low production number (8998) the GTO was built the second week of July 1965 (07B) at the Baltimore plant.

The car's interior trim code (224) is for Parchment (white) and the car's paint was Montero Red with a black vinyl top (R2)

From your pictures the car appears to be in great condition and is indeed a true GTO.

As long as you keep the current steering column to go with the car when it is sold, it will not devalue the car.


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## Must_1 (Jun 5, 2015)

Thanks Big Time for the information and I really appreciate your input. :bigSmile: Now I will go revisit the gentleman and try to work on purchasing the car for a good price. Also, would you happen to know what the accessory code GD might mean :question:


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## shockers2 (Jun 2, 2015)

*I'm leaning tword frame off.*

Your comments make since, and I think this car would be worth doing a complete restoration. My problem being, I WANT TO DRIVE IT!!!! My choices being, do the frame off, do a "driver restore, sell the car to someone who would do a frame off. I have several cars I cant drive already, their pretty to pet but.... Where would someone find pricing on this car in this shape, with or without engine? (I'm sure the 68 engine wouldn't be used in a complete restore)


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

I totally agree with finding a date code correct block and tri-power. The car is worth it given the options from PHS . Restamping however is fraud, period. Not cool!


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