# Need help for valve adjustment 66 GTO 389 tri-power



## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

I have done this before but it’s been sooo long I felt I should ask for some advice before I do any engine damage.
Id like to do this with the engine off by the method of setting #1 on tdc comp. stroke then adjust exhaust 1-3-4-8. Intake 1-2-5-7, then turn 1 revolution to #6 on tdc and adjust exhaust 2-5-6-7, intake 3-4-6-8. I started to do this but I noticed that some of the rockers were really loose, like they are not even touching the valve stem, and I can depress the pushrod down into the lifter, it’s a spongy feel like it’s all spring action, if u know what I mean. I don’t remember coming across that before.
OH....I forgot to mention, the cam isn’t stock but I can’t find the cam specs, I put them somewhere where I wouldn’t loose them...duh!! It’s just a mild Hydrolic cam a little over stock.
Now I haven’t run the car in at least 3 weeks, is it possbile the lifters are just bled down.
im sure I forgot some information you need to help me out but I’ll appreciate any advice.
thanks in advance.
Wally


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

If you have the original stock Pontiac bottleneck rocker studs and rocker nuts, these are *NOT* adjustable. You aren't dealing with a chevy here. The correct way to install them is to torque all the rocker nuts down to 20 lb.ft. --- done. If someone in the past tried to 'adjust' them, then that's why you have what you have now -- loose rockers.

If parts have been changed and you have poly-lock rocker nuts and straight-necked studs, the procedure you mentioned is ok for stock cams but not reliable for 'hotter' cams. Better is to work through the firing order, one cylinder at a time. Use a breaker bar and a socket on the balancer bolt to turn the crank by hand. Turn until you see #1 exhaust valve just beginning to -open-, adjust #1 intake. Then do the same for the rest of the intake valves in order (1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2) - you're half done at this point. Now keep turning until you see #1 intake just beginning to -close- and adjust #1 exhaust. Repeat for the remaining cylinders.

Bear


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

I believe I mentioned in my post this was not a stock cam. These are adjustable. 
futher information.....this motor was rebuilt by a very reputable engine rebuilder in my area. when I got it installed and was running it would not stop smoking, the rebuilder came over and he determined becauseof the lift of the cam itwas knocking the umbrella seals up and out of place. He found some with a shorter skirt and put them inand of course adjusted the valves. It’s been great for a little over 500 miles. Lately if been noticing some are getting noisy. Also getting puffs of smoke out the left bank at an idle, and steady smoke when reving it up.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Whether or not the cam is stock has nothing to do with whether your valve train is adjustable. "Adjustability" is determined by which rocker nuts and studs you have, and only that. 
If you attempt to 'adjust' the stock Pontiac rocker studs and nuts, they _will_ loosen - regardless of which cam is present.


Bear


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

The first thing I would do is to discuss it with the builder.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

BearGFR said:


> Whether or not the cam is stock has nothing to do with whether your valve train is adjustable. "Adjustability" is determined by which rocker nuts and studs you have, and only that.
> If you attempt to 'adjust' the stock Pontiac rocker studs and nuts, they _will_ loosen - regardless of which cam is present.
> 
> 
> Bear


It has adjustible rocker arms complete with Allen head locks.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

Old Man Taylor said:


> The first thing I would do is to discuss it with the builder.


I had planned on doing that OMT the problem is he is hard to get on the phone, he is a 1 man shop and he puts out so much work, I don’t know how he does it. To talk to him I’ll have to drive over, it’s quite a drive and he lives on this freaking back dirt road full of holes and humps I refuse to drive my car or bike over there. I’ve done this work all my life , I’m 71 and had this car for 30 years, I restored it myself other then paint and the rebuild..
I just don’t ever remember seeing the valves this sloppy after 500 miles after they were adjusted by a pro.
they arenot All that sloppy I have it set on #1 and the #1 intake and #2 intake was like I described, there were at least 1 that way when I had it set on #6. Today I adjusted the #1 intake, I tightened it down till I could turn the pushrod with just a slight amount of drag, then I turned it down another 1/2 turn. Then I went back a while later and it felt good I could turn it with oily fingers. I think that’s what I’m going to do to the rest that I find. The reason I came on here is cause I read this all the time and got the most part you guys give pretty good advise, just figured someone had the same experience.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Gtowally said:


> It has adjustible rocker arms complete with Allen head locks.


 Ah, well then there we have it. Sorry if I came off abrupt, but that wasn't clear to me from your initial post and we've seen before where guys have problems because they don't know that about the factory Pontiac setup. 

You mentioned umbrella seals. Those are the rubber boots that slide onto the valve stem and move up and down with the valve, right? If that's what you have, those aren't recommended (at all really) but with higher lift cams, yeah, they can get pushed up the valve stem enough so that they let oil into the guide when the valve is closed. Those shouldn't have been used. Whoever "did" the heads and installed the cam and the rest of the valve train should have used positive stem seals that fit tightly around the top of the valve guide and stay there. 

That could explain the smoke but not the looseness. 

If the same person did all the work, that would make me concerned about the rest of the work though, like if the valve springs are right for the cam you have in terms of spring pressure, installed at the right height, enough clearance between the retainers and guides, etc.

Run the valves yourself and make sure they seem right, then check them periodically to see if things are still loosening up on you.

Flat tappet cam? If so hopefully you're either running an oil with good zddp content or using an additive. I hope things aren't getting loose because the lobes are getting wiped. 

Bear


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

Gtowally said:


> It has adjustible rocker arms complete with Allen head locks.


 apology is needed from me also Bear,I could tell you thought I was novice and I guess I was a little offended, I know you have to deal with guys with all levels of knowledge.
i hear what your saying about the valve guide seals, I’m going to put the o ring style in while I have it opened up. I got some somewhere, keep running into them when I’m looking for other parts but couldn’t seem to find them today.
as far as my engine rebuilder he has had his own shop since the 80s has a impeccable reputation if he made a small error with the seals I’m not going to hold it against him. If I asked him I’m positive he would come over and change them out for me, even though it’s been 2 years since he rebuilt it, he’s that kind of guy. But I can handle it myself now that I have an idea what’s going on. Bear, read what I wrote to Old Man Taylor to see where I’m at now, and thanks tons for your advice


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

My fear is that your cam is going flat. How did it get broken in? The other possibility is bad lifters. I always fear the worst, which is why I think it's worth the drive to talk with the builder.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

So your saying that what I have described pertaining to the lifters is not normal. I tend to agree with you. What I did yesterday, I think I told you that I adjusted #1 intake valve, took all the slop and shake out of it than went an additional 1/2 turn. i came back an hour or so later and it was perfect. This morning it’s all sloppy again like I never touched it.
so I’m glad you took the time to give me this last piece of advice, even though it’s the 2nd time, but I needed it. You convinced me. I will be heading over tomorrow.
as far as break in...he gave me an explicit set of instructions, I Can’t remember the exact instructions, but it involved a lot of getting it up to temp and cool down and some short rides. Then dump the oil and use a good quality 10-30 oil with zinc Additive. I did screw up there I found some oil with zinc already in it, the only problem it was racing oil, I found out later this is a no-no after I took it out on an extremely hot day and I could hear every freaking lifter in it. Now I am running a Lucas brand oil it’s a hot rod and classic car oil high zinc content. I didn’t get after it until I had 500 miles on it, so I think I broke it in pretty good.
thanks for caring enough to send this message omt, I really appreciate it.
Wally


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

There is no big problem running racing oil. You just might have to change it more often.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I forgot to address your lifter question. You are correct, your lifter symptoms are far from normal.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

I had to put this out here, I know there was some question on my engine builder. 
i just called him cause I didn’t want to drive over there for nothing, and just as I figured went to voicemail, i started to explain that I have a problem with the engine he picked up the phone. After I explained what was happening and he asked questions about clatter and run ability he believes we have some bad lifters. He said he was going to order a new set of Howard lifters, gaskets, and new guide seals. I asked him about doubling up on the seals, that is umbrellas as well as orings and he didn’t think that was a bad idea, Ive pulled a few heads apart that had both types on them.
im pretty impressed With this guy, it’s been 2 years since he did this engine and he’s buying all the parts and was going to come over and do the work But I told him I was quite capable of doing the work..unbelivable you just don’t get service like that these days


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

Thank you OMT for that little push to talk to my engine builder, I dont know if I was going to call him before you did that


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