# Blew the motor today :( what now?



## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

Hey boys and girls... sad day today. Car overheated with little warning and poof, i was doing about 65mph on highway and got off the exit and was waiting at a red light as soon as i started to go and turn the car stalled and i looked down at the only aux gauge that works and it was hot. It's been strong for the 4-5 years i've had it. So that being said, previous owner butchered the wiring (cut almost everything) to figure out electrical issues. Thus I had little warning of it overheating i had looked at temp once on 20 min highway drive and it was ok.

So that being said. I think LS swap is to big of a project and $$ to do it right. So I'm thinking just putting back in a worked up pontiac motor. Just don't know where to start. My car is a 1968 LeMans Convertible that was made into a GTO Tribute car. It has a Turbo 400 trans and a "time correct" 400 motor. I'll get block numbers soon. and has a moser 3.42 gears in the rear.

I think I do want the car to be rewired as the previous owner cut it up pretty bad and most wires under the dash are simply just cut and since motor is going to be worked on why not?... where should I start? I'm to sad to look through threads right now lol

I'll update with more pics and info soon. 
I'm currently in NJ.


----------



## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

That looks bad.


----------



## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

dammmmit
thats a deffinate Bummer ... thats going to leave a mark ...on your driveway ,,,,

the best new dash harness ,,, MnH wiring dash 500.00 ... engine wiring 200 ....
buy a ram air engine harness ,,, the wires run up front behind the alternator
and down past the fuel pump along the pan rail to the starter ... getting it away from the tube thru the exhaust manifold gap
that likes to melt...

engines ,,, oh my time to buy a whole car so you can hear the engine running ....
firebird grand prix bonneville etc 

posting your approx location helps too

so we can keep our eyes open for you

I may have a 68 400 YZ runner here in Wa if I decede to part this complete GTO out I just picked up

time for a barley pop and a diaper for your car....
dammm 

Scott


----------



## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

X2 with Taylor good news Pontiac made a ass of 400 blocks there out there


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

If you can pull the engine yourself and pull the pan, you'll be able to get an idea if the block can possibly be saved or if you are searching for an engine. I'm going through the same thing right now with mine. I recommend that you sit down and figure out what your budget is and what power level you are shooting for. Pontiac engines are expensive but even a stout Pontiac build will probably cost less than a LS swap. If you can do some of the work yourself, you will save a ton of money.


----------



## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Destro I would look at it like this pull the motor if you’re able get the wiring that Scott suggests and think of it to get it right. Build a stock 400 no crazy cams or heads and enjoy it, that is the way I did it and it is rock solid dependable


----------



## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

@BLK69JUDGE I'm in New Jersey, I really won't be able to do any work myself, no where for me to do it. I was storing it at a friends house. My budget situation is reasonable and i don't mind paying someone to do the job. I don't want the car to sit around for a few years and suddenly be that guy who starts throwing boxes and crap on top of it lol


----------



## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

pontrc said:


> Destro I would look at it like this pull the motor if you’re able get the wiring that Scott suggests and think of it to get it right. Build a stock 400 no crazy cams or heads and enjoy it, that is the way I did it and it is rock solid dependable


I agree thats what i'm thinking at this point... I still want a little pep this way if i wanna do a little burnout to freak out my wife, it really makes me laugh hard to see her start screaming.

But the car needs to be rewired for sure. previous owner cut alot of wires trying to figure out the voltage regulator was bad(which he never figured out).


----------



## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

I feel you man even stock Pontiac with notorious low end torque could still roast tires


----------



## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

All great advice above^. There are aeveral reputable re-wiring kit manufacturers out there; most of us can recommend a favorite. With the engine out it won't be a bad job. As for Pontiac engines, first your block andheads may be able to be saved. A *reputable* machinist can give you an eveluation on that. If not there are rebuilders like Len Williams who has a geat rep here and on the PY forum. His engines compete favorably pricewise with outfits like Blueprint who do the cheap SBC's. It need not be expensive like Butler performance long blocks.Here's a link to Len's site:



Len Williams Auto Machine



If your block/heads are salvageable, I've found Butler real reasonable for parts as is Ames. Keep posting so we know whats happening.

(IMHO an LS swap would entail huge amt's of wiring besides what already needs replacing. My brother's has done the junkyard LS route and found using junkyard wiring for it is a bummer, had to buy a kit from an LS vendor. And when he got it running he realized it wasn't a low mileage engine----more $$$$. Buyer beware.)


----------



## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

Build a fresh Poncho Motor. You will thank me later.

( Use better rods too.)


----------



## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

Just did my engine harness on took a little over an hour and most of that was disconnecting the brake lines. Used M&H and am happy with it. If you were looking for a quick fix I would go with a crate engine(Pontiac). You could be back on the road in a couple of weeks. I went for a custom build and it took a long time, but I am very happy with the results.


----------



## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

LATECH said:


> Build a fresh Poncho Motor. You will thank me later.
> 
> ( Use better rods too.)





LATECH said:


> Build a fresh Poncho Motor. You will thank me later.
> 
> ( Use better rods too.)


Enlighten me on this


----------



## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Pontiac's Achilles Heel. The Rods are a Pontiac's weak point. Anything above a slightly modified rebuild you should use forged rods. Especially after 50 years of service. At a minimum you should have the stock rods resized and use ARP bolts. By the looks of your oil pan that's probably what's in the bottom of your engine.


----------



## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

just saw these on facebook for $3000 for the pair


----------



## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

Tear your down.Look for catastophic damage. It might be junk. 

Dont go overboard buying anything untill you are sure what you need. 

At the very least use som RPM 5140 rods, or better. 

I have a excellent stock bore 73 400 short block (481988) . It would run with just heads, (which I have 2 sets ) but it would be best to freshen it up.It was a running motor when I got it. It has been setting. 

Resting peacefully at the machine shop.

I like to have a spare just in case I have too much fun  and wind up hurting something.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Destro23 said:


> just saw these on facebook for $3000 for the pair


Based on what I was finding on Craig's list when my engine blew up, this is probably not a bad deal. Just keep in mind that both of these engines are basically rebuild-able cores. You wouldn't want to go through all the time and expense of putting an engine in your car that last ran 25 years ago and hope it's good. Since you are going to be paying to have the work done, you may want to consider something more complete and ready to drop in.

Here is an engine builder that supplies the block right near you in NJ:



Pontiac Crate Engines:Eddies Performance Motors-High Performance Engines, Crate Engine, Racing Engine Builder, Rebuilt Motor: 732-727-2325; Raritan Street, Sayreville, NJ 08872



Here's a shop that has three on Ebay in Delaware:









Rebuilt 400 Pontiac HP Complete Engine | eBay


365 HP with tons of torque. Denny's Auto Machine was established in 1977. Presently my employees are ASE certified in engine machining and assembly, as well as repair and diagnostic services. We have a combined experience of over 65 years.



www.ebay.com





If you speak to either of these shops, ask them if they are interested in the core. Just be honest about it's condition. They may give you a few bucks for it if it can be rebuilt.

Another member already gave you a link for Len Williams. I have him building a 455 short block for me now which will hopefully be done soon (as long as his shop isn't seeing a pandemic slow down like others are). He had a 6 week lead time when I placed the order in early/mid July.


----------



## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

M&H wiring is very good. M&H does recommend if you're planning any modifications to your car/wiring that they recommend using American Autowire as M&H are strictly OEM type wiring harnesses. Here's a link to American Auto wire:






American Autowire: Wiring Harnesses, Accessories, & Parts for GM Restoration, Modified Restoration & Custom Street Rod | American Autowire


The premier wiring harness manufacturer. A wiring harness for any project! We Make Wiring THAT Easy for GM OEM Restoration, Modified Restoration, Custom Street




www.americanautowire.com


----------



## Imposter (Jan 3, 2020)

id look to rebuild it first Len Williams is supposed to be great


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Destro23 said:


> @BLK69JUDGE I'm in New Jersey, I really won't be able to do any work myself, no where for me to do it. I was storing it at a friends house. My budget situation is reasonable and i don't mind paying someone to do the job. I don't want the car to sit around for a few years and suddenly be that guy who starts throwing boxes and crap on top of it lol


Man, I'm sorry that happened to you.

Considering all of your above statements, if you want to get the car running and driving again in the least amount of time, with the least amount of "fuss", and your budget is truly reasonable - then consider a turn-key Pontiac crate engine from a reputable source, such as Butler Performance. (https://butlerperformance.com/i-244...-501-cu-in-turn-key.html?ref=category:1267471)
They aren't cheap, but they're solid and even the "base" level of one of their builds makes some pretty serious power. 

And of course, DO get that wiring situation sorted out. I personally prefer M&H wiring harnesses. They are direct factory replacement for what was originally on your car.

Bear


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Man, I'm sorry that happened to you.
> 
> Considering all of your above statements, if you want to get the car running and driving again in the least amount of time, with the least amount of "fuss", and your budget is truly reasonable - then consider a turn-key Pontiac crate engine from a reputable source, such as Butler Performance. (https://butlerperformance.com/i-244...-501-cu-in-turn-key.html?ref=category:1267471)
> They aren't cheap, but they're solid and even the "base" level of one of their builds makes some pretty serious power.
> ...


I didn't include Butler on my list because I know they have a very long lead time for assembled engines. They told me a year or more when I spoke with them a couple months ago. That being said, if you can wait the year, they should be at the top of your list. I have ordered a pile of parts from them and their response is fantastic.


----------



## Imposter (Jan 3, 2020)

Destro23 said:


> Hey boys and girls... sad day today. Car overheated with little warning and poof, i was doing about 65mph on highway and got off the exit and was waiting at a red light as soon as i started to go and turn the car stalled and i looked down at the only aux gauge that works and it was hot. It's been strong for the 4-5 years i've had it. So that being said, previous owner butchered the wiring (cut almost everything) to figure out electrical issues. Thus I had little warning of it overheating i had looked at temp once on 20 min highway drive and it was ok.
> 
> So that being said. I think LS swap is to big of a project and $$ to do it right. So I'm thinking just putting back in a worked up pontiac motor. Just don't know where to start. My car is a 1968 LeMans Convertible that was made into a GTO Tribute car. It has a Turbo 400 trans and a "time correct" 400 motor. I'll get block numbers soon. and has a moser 3.42 gears in the rear.
> 
> ...


Where in NJ


----------



## Montreux (Mar 8, 2009)

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Before you start disassembling the car and throwing money at it, you need to see how bad it's hurt. Now that it's cooled off, will the engine turn over? If so, fill the radiator and see if it will run. If it runs, you may have no significant damage. More likely, if it was REALLY hot, the rings have lost their temper. You may have a car that runs okay, but burns enough oil to smoke.


----------



## Montreux (Mar 8, 2009)

What kind of shape was the motor in before it got hot? Was it a 100,000 mile survivor? Or a recent rebuild with low miles? A recent rebuild might have tight enough clearances to temporarily seize with a moderate overheat. If it's now running but smoking, it's rebuildable. You might even get by with a light hone and a new set of rings--no overbore, no new pistons, no rebalancing. You are probably better off rebuilding your motor than rebuilding a junkyard motor. Or plugging in a used engine of uncertain history. Just my two cents.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Montreux said:


> What kind of shape was the motor in before it got hot? Was it a 100,000 mile survivor? Or a recent rebuild with low miles? A recent rebuild might have tight enough clearances to temporarily seize with a moderate overheat. If it's now running but smoking, it's rebuildable. You might even get by with a light hone and a new set of rings--no overbore, no new pistons, no rebalancing. You are probably better off rebuilding your motor than rebuilding a junkyard motor. Or plugging in a used engine of uncertain history. Just my two cents.


Since there is a big gaping hole in the bottom of the oil pan, it is safe to say it'll need more than a minor rebuild. Hard to see in the photos, but the hole and what looks like a rod showing itself doesn't look good.


----------



## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

X2 with Jim think it’s going to need a little than just cooling off


----------



## Montreux (Mar 8, 2009)

Oh. Hmm. Yeah. Didn’t realize what I was looking at in the picture. Ventilated oil pan is a problem 😕


----------



## M.L. Blanton (Aug 17, 2020)

Destro23 said:


> Hey boys and girls... sad day today. Car overheated with little warning and poof, i was doing about 65mph on highway and got off the exit and was waiting at a red light as soon as i started to go and turn the car stalled and i looked down at the only aux gauge that works and it was hot. It's been strong for the 4-5 years i've had it. So that being said, previous owner butchered the wiring (cut almost everything) to figure out electrical issues. Thus I had little warning of it overheating i had looked at temp once on 20 min highway drive and it was ok.
> 
> So that being said. I think LS swap is to big of a project and $$ to do it right. So I'm thinking just putting back in a worked up pontiac motor. Just don't know where to start. My car is a 1968 LeMans Convertible that was made into a GTO Tribute car. It has a Turbo 400 trans and a "time correct" 400 motor. I'll get block numbers soon. and has a moser 3.42 gears in the rear.
> 
> ...


I have a 67 GTO with an overheating problem. I think I have built in more horsepower than this car can cool (525) You should be careful how much you "work up" that motor


----------



## Klundog (Nov 1, 2018)

pontrc said:


> X2 with Taylor good news Pontiac made a ass of 400 blocks there out there


"Pontiac made a ass of 400 blocks there out there"?


----------



## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

Off to the shop today.. after looking at everything a friend of a friend had a lead on a 455 and is being built now... i looked at LS long and hard and the price of a clean LS swap ended up being about as much as a butler engine(or a built up one from any shop) that would plug right in.


----------



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Awesome! Unless you were going to go really nuts on the LS swap, you never would have gotten the low end grunt that you'll get out of the 455, even if you go with a stock build on it.


----------



## LATECH (Jul 18, 2018)

M L Blanton,...: You either have a tune problem or a cooling system problem.


----------

