# New Lemans owner - engine ID and other question



## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

Ok - i dug the number off the passenger side rear of the block 9790079 and get it that its a 350cid, 2 bolt 2 barrel - rpo code L30. I did manage to find the number on the front of the block which is 632792 YN, but i can't seem to find out what that number means. I get the YN, since it ties into the number form the rear casting. Can someone direct me to where i might find more info on the front stamping?

Also, the rear number seems to indicate that it was stock with a powerglide, but this has been changed to a 400(r4)? not sure exactly - the question is, will not having the stock trans really take away from the value? i was actaully kind of thinking i would like to put a proper 4 speed stick in, but everything points to this car as having come with a 2 speed auto. 

finally - the car was Verdero (not a green i am fond of) with gold interior - by changing the paint to Midnight Green or Pepper Green and the interior to black, will i be completely ruining the cars value? Midnight green wasnt a color choice until 69 and Pepper Green wasnt a choice until 1970


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

1968LemansGuy said:


> Ok - i dug the number off the passenger side rear of the block 9790079 and get it that its a 350cid, 2 bolt 2 barrel - rpo code L30. I did manage to find the number on the front of the block which is 632792 YN, but i can't seem to find out what that number means. I get the YN, since it ties into the number form the rear casting. Can someone direct me to where i might find more info on the front stamping?


Yessir, try here, here, or here. Google "pontiac engine codes" and you'll find a ton 'o sites with the information. Check multiple sites as there can be variances. 9790079 is a casting number and probably indicates its a 1968 - 1969 350, as does YN (once we know the year). To confirm the date, you need the 4 character date code from the top of the block near the distributor hole. Keep in mind that early production blocks for the each model year may show a casting date late in the previous year and that's legit. To find out if it's the numbers matching block, check the digits that should be stamped into the passenger side front of the block, next to the front cover, just above the oil pan. These should match the vin.

The same sites above should also lead you to information to help you id your heads.

Bear


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

Thank You Bear - the first link showed me where to look for the other front engine stamping - and it confirmed that i have the original block for the VIN number. i still havent gotten a look at the distributor area number though, or the heads - but it appears this was a budget build car and probably has the lower end heads - but i'll keep looking. 

thanks for the input


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Just a slight correction, The 2 speed transmission for the 68 lemans was the buick ST-300, powerglide is/was a chevy transmission. 632792 is the engine's unit number (serial number) which was stamped when the block was cast, in early 67 this number was recorded on the billing history until they added the VIN number to the front of the block in the later part of 67.


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

well the question still stands - will not having the stock transmission undermine the value at all? i'm guessing the paint color would make less difference - but i really am new to the idea of a restoration.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

I don't think it will decrease the car's value, the 3-speed th-350 was also offered on the lemans in 68. So having a 3-speed auto would not be unusual for your car.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

1968LemansGuy said:


> Thank You Bear - the first link showed me where to look for the other front engine stamping - and it confirmed that i have the original block for the VIN number. i still havent gotten a look at the distributor area number though, or the heads - but it appears this was a budget build car and probably has the lower end heads - but i'll keep looking.
> 
> thanks for the input


Well, since you definitely have the original engine the date code on the block sort of becomes moot - unless you're just curious about when the block was cast. Knowing the date matters more when you're trying to ID an engine from the two character stamp on the passenger side deck because the codes did get reused in different years, for different engines. For example, "YS" could be a 1965-66 389, a 1967-1972 400, a 1974 350, or a 76 or 78 400.

Bear


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I have a Lemans also, and I think the quality of the restoration will determine the value of the car. Lemans don't see GTO prices, although a sister car. The turbo 350 has a square pan with a corner cut off, while the turbo 400 looks like a plus sign. Does the shift indicator show 2 or 3 speeds? I would take the 3 speed over the 2 speed anyday and wouldn't go backwards to get the 2 speed.


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

The console has D and L - and the VIN points to having come with the 2 speed. The guy i got it form changed the trans to a 400 3 speed i believe. i am seriously considering trying to put a 4 speed in. If anyone has one and would consider selling it PM me. Also - any tips or pointers for the conversion would be welcome - like can i use the same console, or does the stick shift require a completely different one? 
Oh - and how about the 2 scoop hood? was that an option for the LeMans in 68? I have always like the look of that hood, but don't want to stray too far from the reality of how this car could have been purchased if i am not going to put it back to bone stock. 

and i know everyone has probably answered this one a dozen times, but just to be clear - with one back wheel off the ground, if you can't turn the wheel in the air that means you have a posi rear end, and if you can turn the wheel in the air you have a limited slip differential? or with both wheels in the air you turn one wheel and the other goes the opposite direction thats also a sign of a limited slip diff? would both wheels turn the same direction if it was a posi rear end?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

just looking at your avatar, man pontiacs have the best front ends....remember, the nice thing about having a Lemans/Tempest is that we can take some liberties without it effecting the value as much as with the 242 (GTO) cars and remember, GTO was first just an option for the Tempest, so do what makes you happy and drive it like you stole it


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

i'm beginning to get that. searching for information for a 1968 pontiac lemans gets nothing - but 1968 GTO you get all you can use. its like LeMans don't even exist... 
So your saying its ok to take a little artistic license with the project, eh? I guess as long as i leave the LeMans emblems on it i cant be accused of being a 1968GTOguy wannabe  
and if mine turns out half as nice as Jetstangs i'll be thrilled. now i just have to start the money tree seedlings so they'll be good to plant come springtime.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

don't get me wrong, you can spend just as much on a Lemans/Tempest, restoration/build but your original purchase is fractional compared to a documented GTO in similar condition and remember all the parts are interchangeable for your year and a lot through the similar years, and making a clone will not increase the value considerably.I like that you plan on keeping it a Lemans, the reason you don't see much on them is many have been sacrificed as parts cars to GTO projects.

I would definitely keep the three speed trans, the console is different for the stick, if you want the fun of a stick with the ease of an auto look for a Hurst his/hers shifter for your auto, should fit the console, i am not sure about 68' but the rally shifters in 69' (had one in my Firebird 1st car) had a similar feature that when you upshift if you force the stick toward the passenger door it would lock out on the shift and not over shift into N or R. you can tell these by the lever on the shifter, it will have around 3/8" side to side play to the right, but not loose, spring loaded.

heres a few pics of my build

http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/g372/instg8ter/1966 Tempest/


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

Thats a heckuva build - awesome job on the console and dashpad too. The engine looks brand new too. Well done all around i would say. Can i ask how long it took from start to finish?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

1968LemansGuy said:


> ...and i know everyone has probably answered this one a dozen times, but just to be clear - with one back wheel off the ground, if you can't turn the wheel in the air that means you have a posi rear end, and if you can turn the wheel in the air you have a limited slip differential? or with both wheels in the air you turn one wheel and the other goes the opposite direction thats also a sign of a limited slip diff? would both wheels turn the same direction if it was a posi rear end?


"Limited slip" and "posi" (Positrack) are the same thing. Limited slip is a generic description, 'Positrack' is a 'brand' used in reference to Chevrolet. Pontiac called their limited slip diff's "Safe-T-Trac". As to your test, with one wheel off the ground -and the transmission in neutral-, if you can turn that one wheel and spin the driveshaft with the other wheel still on the ground, then either it's an 'open' (non limited-slip) rear or it's a limited-slip rear with severely fried discs/clutches, or a locker with a busted mechanism. 

The usage of the terms have gotten a little muddy and the lines blurred over the years, but generally there are 4-types of differentials: 1) open - meaning no traction enhancement devices at all, 2) limited slip - uses some sort of clutch mechanism to improve traction, 3) locker - has a ratcheting mechanism internally to either "lock" the two axles together, or to let one side ratchet faster/slower than the other side (you can hear them ratchet going around a corner), 4) spool --- single piece center section creating essentially one single long axle (not really a "differential" in the true sense of the word).

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

1968LemansGuy said:


> So your saying its ok to take a little artistic license with the project, eh?


Absolutely! The most important question you have to ask yourself, is what are you building the car for? If you care "a lot" about preserving resale value, then that tends to lead down the "keep everything original" path. However, if the car is mostly for your own enjoyment and you don't care much, or any, about preserving value for "someone else", then by all means do anything you want and have a ball. Make a GTO clone, a "world's only 68 Judge prototype".... whatever you want. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. After all, it's your time and your cash, right?

These things are supposed to be FUN! Otherwise, why bother?

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

just received the car 1st of september after getting it shipped in from Idaho the very last pic in my album is how it sat when i bought it....been sitting in a carport for 35 years, interior was baked, but is all original all metal, no rust, 326 is set aside for stock build to stay with car, mods i am doing are thought out so as not to effect restoring back to original if i so desire at a later date. Case in point if it was a 242 (GTO) in that condition could have been upwards of 10k to start, where as this car cost me 2k and 900 to ship across country. and i have already put the extra 7K into parts, have everything on teh shelf to finish by spring, get on the road and tune mechanicals, then off to paint before the Dream Cruise....PS love the Judge prototype idea Bear, who's to say the engineers at Pontiac did'nt do that in the back barn, they have done stranger things....See Banshee 

1964 Pontiac Banshee Convertible - Featured Vehicles - Hot Rod Magazine

as i got it...


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> After all, it's your time and your cash, right?
> 
> These things are supposed to be FUN! Otherwise, why bother?
> 
> Bear


AMEN!!! to that brother, have guys say..... but you have gto grilles, 65' seats, Lemans tailpiece panel badge, and a 455 engine with front disc brakes

stock reply: how can you not like the running lights in the front ("Pontiac" badge from tempest)....65's had the best upholstery IMHO, and i got the seats from a corvair for next to nothing in perfect shape....4' x4" chrome PONTIAC on the ass of my car, how could i resist.....no replacement for displacement.....gotta be able to stop too!!!.....its a tribute to all that is pontiac. will be doing dual cold air induction also

heres what i started with

tempest2.jpg picture by instg8ter - Photobucket


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

Well - i certainly do want to have fun - alot of thats in the doing for me. Naturally at the same time i would like to preserve as much value as i can, since if i do need to sell it, i can get at least what i have into it. I paid 4k for it and just dropped 400 for new drums, shoes and wheel cylinders. The brakes were totally shot when i got it, from a shot wheel cylinder i would say given the amount of brake fluid in the drivers front drum. Considered the disc brake conversion, but i need to save some cash for the interior work i started with. Front drums were good enough when it was new, i figure they will work. 

i had a busy day though - taking the dash apart, the passenger fender, breaking the bumper down to get it ready for the chromer, pulled the trims off the front glass - found some rust under the trim that goes under the front window that will need to be dealt with. 

Which brings up another question - this POR90... i clean the affected area with soapy water then spray the POR90 (or is it POR 15, or both ?)on it and that will stop the rust? and it can be painted over? 

Pictures by 1968LeMansGuy - Photobucket


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

I would say make the mods tasteful, and don't worry about the mods. Leave the goats for the originality freaks, and built the car you want to drive every stinking day

By the way, no disrespect meant by the word "freaks" with certain cars, i'm right there with you


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

looking good 68Guy way to jump right in, i looked at so many pictures of others rides as i was deciding what direction to take with mine, find something with the stance/look and performance you want and go for it i made the one i liked best as my comp wallpaper, to be replaced by mine when i get her done. 69' has always been my next fav to 66', but the more 68's i see the more i like them especially w/o the hideaway lights, buddy has a 68' Lemans vert sitting in grandpas garage covered in sh** since 76', can only see the massive chrome front plow (bumper) i am dieing to get a good peek at.

http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/stat...o+clrpaint+dtmatrix+vinmatrix+dataplate+price

take a look here there should be some lemans's mixed in

http://ultimategto.com/1968htcars1.htm


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

Wow - thats an awesome story and an incredible build. The whole 4 generations thing is pretty cool. You definitely deserve bragging rights for your part in it. Well done. I hope your Dad enjoyed taking it for a spin.


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

Well we got it started, but the first spin hasn't been done yet. Hopefully we can get it on the road, even though it doesn't have the front clip or doors yet.
Thanks for checking out my link. It's because of that car that I want a 70 lemans. I need a car I can mod into a daily driver without killing the value or getting shaming scowls from traditionalists.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

some would not call this tastefull but damn it's a head turner....

Red 1968 LeMans Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

I kind of like the roof, not so much about the stripe on the side


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

nice example of stock look 

Blue 1968 LeMans Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

and distasteful....IMO

Red 1968 GTO Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

sweet tempest tastefully moded with no hidden agenda....tell me you would not want this sitting in your garage

Meridian Turquoise Blue 1968 Tempest Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

OH SWEET. I saw the page title of turquoise and thought I would hate it, but it's awesome

EDIT... I don't like the painted back bumper, but everything else is sweet


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

you know... if I had a 68 or 69 lemans, I would be REALY tempted to paint the front bumper, but I HATE the way 70's look with painted bumpers. Funny, huh?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

love the chrome too w/o the hideaways...yep did'mt like bumper treatment but love the stance and finish otherwise, kinda where i am going with my 66'


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

58mark said:


> I kind of like the roof, not so much about the stripe on the side


 Funny, I like the broken up side stripes, but the rest need to go...



Instg8ter said:


> and distasteful....IMO
> 
> Red 1968 GTO Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


Went for the Starsky/Hutch theme I guess..... Bluck....



Instg8ter said:


> sweet tempest tastefully moded with no hidden agenda....tell me you would not want this sitting in your garage
> 
> *******n Turquoise Blue 1968 Tempest Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


The front end pic is awesome. Not diggin' the wing(if '68's had a wing, that would be a different story) nor the painted rear bumper(don't know why people insist on painting chrome. Maybe if it was a streeet rod.). Those funked up seats don't trip my trigger either...

Aren't I Mr. Positive......


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

68greengoat said:


> Funny, I like the broken up side stripes, but the rest need to go...




ok, I'll take one, or the other... both don't seem to work for me


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

Instg8ter said:


> sweet tempest tastefully moded with no hidden agenda....tell me you would not want this sitting in your garage
> 
> *******n Turquoise Blue 1968 Tempest Hardtop - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail


I like the air cleaner... Is it custom, or is that an established design?


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

some real nice examples of the do's and don'ts - i would never paint my bumpers! and i was thinking about stripes - 2 on the hood, 2 on the trunk, but after seeing that first blue one all stocked out and shiny i may forego the stripage - but we'll see, paint day is probably a long way off from where i am.

By the way Greengoat - that is one perfect example of what an old poncho is supposed to look like - hats off to you.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i have a chrome Spectre thats like it w/o the top cutout, think thats a K&N design


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

take that stock barrier blue lemans any day, clean and classic, like side stripe on red not roof, not a fan of turquise either but that front shot grabbed me, and Greens screams class and muscle with those Keystones and meats


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

as long as we are talking about modding a lemans, give me some feedback on this idea...


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

nice silver pinstripe between primary colors to clean up the line would look great....have been kicking around two tone bahama blue met. with black painted top and landau chrome trim....


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

I was thinking a small purple pinstripe... but silver would be nice too...


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

1968LemansGuy said:


> some real nice examples of the do's and don'ts - i would never paint my bumpers! and i was thinking about stripes - 2 on the hood, 2 on the trunk, but after seeing that first blue one all stocked out and shiny i may forego the stripage - but we'll see, paint day is probably a long way off from where i am.
> 
> By the way Greengoat - that is one perfect example of what an old poncho is supposed to look like - hats off to you.





Instg8ter said:


> take that stock barrier blue lemans any day, clean and classic, like side stripe on red not roof, not a fan of turquise either but that front shot grabbed me, and Greens screams class and muscle with those Keystones and meats


Appreciate the compliments, gentlemen.....



58mark said:


> as long as we are talking about modding a lemans, give me some feedback on this idea...


58', is that your car?


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

I wish... I'm shopping for one right now. I'm being picky, but that's okay because I can't work on another project I finish my impala


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

I wouldn't 2 tone it all the way back. Use the stripe in your avatar as a seperation point. Above the stripe one color and below it another. You'd want to extend the stripe to meet the drip rail. Roof, trunk, sides below the stripe would all be one color.

I had a '72 LeMans 25 years ago that was done that way. Looked really sharp. Most of the car was black with the hood etc. being charcoal grey metallic with a red pinstripe.


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

68greengoat said:


> I wouldn't 2 tone it all the way back. Use the stripe in your avatar as a seperation point. Above the stripe one color and below it another. You'd want to extend the stripe to meet the drip rail. Roof, trunk, sides below the stripe would all be one color.
> 
> I had a '72 LeMans 25 years ago that was done that way. Looked really sharp. Most of the car was black with the hood etc. being charcoal grey metallic with a red pinstripe.


I like that... I may photoshop that up


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

If I had a pics I would post them. I never did take any pics of that car and I thought it was one of the coolest cars I had owned....


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

bet that looked sweet Green....like the two tone, check this temporary paint out on V8TV

www.V8TVshow.com - 1966 Pontiac GTO


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

had a nutty thought today, and I thought this was the best place to put it, apologies to the OP if this is too far off topic.

everybody and their dog puts a GTO hood on a lemans... It's almost so over done I'd be tempted to try something else with my lemans.

what do you think about turning the pontiac hood into a Stinger? with the built in hump, it would be easy as long as you could find the right scoop to fiberglass in correctly so it looks good.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

i like it, fits well with the arrow design of th ehood was thinking of what i could do for a scoop almost picked up an old gasser scoop but was a little over the top


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

here's some playing with the two tone 




























any of those do anything for you?


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

that really looks cool.


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks, I may mess with it a little bit and minimize the black around the rear window... it made it look HUGE


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

As far as the "stinger", leave it for the vettes. The 2 tone looks much better now, IMO. The yellow, orange wouldn't be for me. Mess around with different colors. Silver, greys, dark purple/plum. Mess around and see what you come up with. Although, if you like the yellow/orange stick with those colors..... Of the 3 options you proposed, I would go with the bottom one. The more orangey.....


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

like the orange too, yellow is too bright, can't go wrong with silver/black, simple is the key following the body lines to enhance , not detract IMO, maybe fade the hood color into a pinstripe right at the back of the door and around the rear window. Or third color pinstripe to ease the edge between the two primary colors


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

After doing a photoshop of the the two tone that actually showed the hood, I decided I didn't like it, so I've gone back to my original idea, with the stripes being based on the colors of the stripes of a judge with orbit orange (left out the pink.. lol)


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## 1968LemansGuy (Nov 21, 2010)

ya know - that car in that color looks pretty darn nice without any stripes!


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks... I love the look of the 70 lemans. It's got the perfect balance between the GTO, and not quite letting go of the age of Chrome...I always thought the grill looks like a pontiac that can't quite decide if it's a 70 GTO or a 69 Firebird... and you can't go wrong either way


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

first car was a 69' bird, loved that car....sold it to get a 76' TA to some yahoo, about two years later i get a letter from the impound saying they have my 69' firebird (never changed title) and i owe $XXX.00 dollars for storage or i can come sign it over as salvage. figured what the hell, and went down there to see it, was stripped down, the perfect interior was gone, there was a milk crate on the floor as a seat to steer it to where they dumped but otherwise more or less in tact, but trashed. was living in apartment at the time or i think i would have payed the fines and brought it back to life.


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## 58mark (Sep 28, 2010)

Playing around with colors...

this one is based on a 69 judge instead of the 70... It's starting to grow on me

thoughts?


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