# 67 GTO A Arms, need opinions



## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

My car is in pieces and right now I am trying to get the chassis built to set the body back on the frame. I just ordered a set of controls arms with sway bar and everything for the back. Now I am trying to figure out what to do on the front. I have narrowed it down to a few options and would like your opinion on which way to go.

Option 1, I already have my a-arms powdercoated. I can put new poly bushings on them, new ball joints, new sway bar links, etc.

Option 2, KMJ Performance :: Chassis :: NEW 64-72 Chevelle Monte Carlo GTO Control Arms A Body

I figure it will be a little cheaper to go with option 1, but of course I need to press in the bushings and figure it all out, though it shouldn't be too hard. Option 2 is plug and play, just bolt them right in. I am just weary of option 2 because of the price. I have looked around a bit and a-arms aren't cheap. This whole set is very cheap compared with pretty much everything else I have seen. I don't know anything about the vendor so I don't know how good their products are. I can't afford what most people are asking for a-arm kits, so take into consideration I am down to these options because of my budget. If you have any other ideas than what I put out there, bring them on. Thanks for any input in advance.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Poly bushings are easy to press in compared to the rubber ones. Even the rubber ones are no big deal if you're educated a little bit. If you're worried, use a machine shop. No need to buy new arms, especially if your originals are all cleaned up and ready to go. The PITA rating is high to put them back in the vehicle, but once they're done, you'll be set for a long time.


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## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

Actually I run a machine shop.... I am the shop foreman. As far as the bushings go, I have already thought about it. If I do my arms, I have a reason to buy a press. Always good when you have a reason to buy new tools. =) I guess aside from the PITA, I am also trying to figure out if the tubular will really be much better.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

chainboy1 said:


> Actually I run a machine shop.... I am the shop foreman. As far as the bushings go, I have already thought about it. If I do my arms, I have a reason to buy a press. Always good when you have a reason to buy new tools. =) I guess aside from the PITA, I am also trying to figure out if the tubular will really be much better.


no need for tubular unless you race. i would not use poly bushings either unless you are looking for performance. use stock rubber for best sound quality and ride.


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## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

freethinker said:


> no need for tubular unless you race. i would not use poly bushings either unless you are looking for performance. use stock rubber for best sound quality and ride.


I would've thought poly for sure, if nothing else because it would last longer. Guess I didn't think about the fact that they will probably make me feel the bumps a lot more as well.


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## 646904GTO (Feb 10, 2008)

I have to disagree a little here...replace your stock uppers with the tubular ones. These cars lack stability at high speeds because the design of the upper arm only allows about a degree of caster to be in the front end without having too much negative camber at static settings. They also have 'positive gain" on suspension compression. This equals touchy or 'darting' at speeds above 50 mph. The design of the new A-arms allows the user to have as much as 5 degrees of caster, although 3-1/2 will probably be enough. Also the camber gain is increased when turning the car as weight is transferred to the outside radius-ed wheel. Most drag racers or street/strip guys don't know this because they are just going straight. The braking will also improve because the tire patch is optimized with this change. Trust me it is the second best change you can make to the front suspension. The best change is to lower the mounting holes in the upper A-arm towers on the frame. That change effects camber gain during cornering and weight transfer, but is normally done for road course and circle track cars. Personally since I run both kinds of circuits I have these changes in all of my cars.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

646994 is right about the steering angles. That being said, it's up to you and how you plan on driving the car. I've always used a large bench vise to press the busings in. Much easier than trying to get the arm set up in a press. I air-chisel the old bushings out, and press the new ones in with the vise. Use anti-sieze on the metal sleeves, and put the bushings in the freezer for about an hour before you press them in.


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## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

Well I was notified I might have to trim a little sheet metal to make the tubular arms work, so I am sticking with stock. Now I just have to decide rubber or poly. Hmmmm......

Edit.....Thanks for the tips on getting the new bushings in. I have a bench vise and a freezer at work


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## drburns (Jan 15, 2005)

I think if you're not looking to restore the car to factory specs, and you want to drive it, I would use the aftermarket tubular A-arms. Decent bang for the buck, better handling, longevity, etc.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

646904GTO said:


> I have to disagree a little here...replace your stock uppers with the tubular ones. These cars lack stability at high speeds because the design of the upper arm only allows about a degree of caster to be in the front end without having too much negative camber at static settings. They also have 'positive gain" on suspension compression. This equals touchy or 'darting' at speeds above 50 mph. The design of the new A-arms allows the user to have as much as 5 degrees of caster, although 3-1/2 will probably be enough. Also the camber gain is increased when turning the car as weight is transferred to the outside radius-ed wheel. Most drag racers or street/strip guys don't know this because they are just going straight. The braking will also improve because the tire patch is optimized with this change. Trust me it is the second best change you can make to the front suspension. The best change is to lower the mounting holes in the upper A-arm towers on the frame. That change effects camber gain during cornering and weight transfer, but is normally done for road course and circle track cars. Personally since I run both kinds of circuits I have these changes in all of my cars.


after 25 years of circle track racing i agree that the gto style suspension does have camber gain under suspension comprssion and it is not a good thing for cornering because it allows the tire to roll under while cornering. you want to achieve negitive camber while cornering.
but. just changing control arms will not help this. you have to change the angle of the upper a arm mounting to affect this. there are only three ways to fix this problem. lower the upper inner suspension mounting point. install taller spindles or install special aftermarket taller ball joints.
one fix we used to use that worked good was to install camaro/firebird disk brake spindles on the gto. they are an inch taller which helps correct the bad suspension geometry of the gto.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Whole 'nother can of worms here. I did the "F-Body" spindle swap on a '65 back in the early '90's with a friend when I read in all the magazines how great it was. It didn't work out: turned out that I couldn't get the alignment angles correct: there was not enough room to get enough shims behind the A arm shafts. There was something like 0 caster, the thing handled like a bicycle with the handlebars flipped backwards. Also, with the wide Pontiac engine, the A arms wanted to hit the exhaust on the passenger side. Never again. A huge amount of work, grief, and we ended up doing the whole thing over. I think Chainboy is doint the right thing just replacing the bushings. Chainboy, just be sure to use the right socket or pipe to press them in. Good luck.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

646904GTO said:


> The best change is to lower the mounting holes in the upper A-arm towers on the frame. That change effects camber gain during cornering and weight transfer, but is normally done for road course and circle track cars. Personally since I run both kinds of circuits I have these changes in all of my cars.


 are these the points your talking about and if so how do you lower the mounting points on a 64/65 frame.seems like a major . I am not suspension tuner savy but am trying to learn


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## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

This is the kit I am going to order from Performance Years to take care of the front. Come with most of what I need for $300. I am ordering tie rod adjusters and the inner tie rods in addition to this.

Item: GMU85K 
Description: SUSPENSION KIT W/ BAR POLY 
FOR 67-72 USE GMU85K2 
Includes polyurethane sway bar bushings, end links and control arm busings and oem style ball joints and tie rod ends plus oem style 1 1/4" sway bar.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

crustysack said:


> are these the points your talking about and if so how do you lower the mounting points on a 64/65 frame.seems like a major . I am not suspension tuner savy but am trying to learn


Your Global West suspension is already built with the changes in the geometry. It should allow for the alignment specs to be set for better handling.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

crustysack said:


> are these the points your talking about and if so how do you lower the mounting points on a 64/65 frame.seems like a major . I am not suspension tuner savy but am trying to learn


it requires that you cut the towers and remake them. you cant to it with stock control arms. there isnt enough clearance. this procedure is too complicated for a novice. much easier to get a taller spindle. that will accomplish the same result.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

freethinker said:


> it requires that you cut the towers and remake them. you cant to it with stock control arms. there isnt enough clearance. this procedure is too complicated for a novice. much easier to get a taller spindle. that will accomplish the same result.


The modification really isn't that hard. Here is a link on how to do it on a Camaro. It is basically the same for the A bodies. first gen suspension geometry Like I said before, the GW arms have this modification built in, especially if he ordered them with the offset upper pivot shaft. Plus he has the added benefit of the greasable delrin bushings to keep everything tight, moving freely and in alignment.
Many of the "taller" spindles are of a lowering variety that moves the wheel up and puts the tie rod very close to, if not hitting, the wheel. In many cases, a larger diameter wheel is also needed to clear the tie rod.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

thanks Mitch, I had thought the GW package addressed the issue completely, I was just commenting on the moving down of the stock a-arm points seems like a fair amount of work and you really wouldn't get them that much lower without serious frame mods- after looking at the mod link it seems that you are going down between 3/4 and 1 inch at the a-arm points- does that really make that much difference ?? ( I will be doing some research tonight to help educate myself on these suspension nuances)


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

crustysack said:


> thanks Mitch, I had thought the GW package addressed the issue completely, I was just commenting on the moving down of the stock a-arm points seems like a fair amount of work and you really wouldn't get them that much lower without serious frame mods- after looking at the mod link it seems that you are going down between 3/4 and 1 inch at the a-arm points- does that really make that much difference ?? ( I will be doing some research tonight to help educate myself on these suspension nuances)


That amount of lowering does make a big difference. The author of the website ( David pozziracing) has been driving on road courses most of his life and his wife, Mary, is the test driver for the suspension and handling challenge in the latest issue of Super Chevy. He has a 67 Camaro that he bought new and made the mods on and has been racing it for over 40 years. He knows his chit about handling and states that any lower and the handling gets worse.


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## wyoming67gto (Apr 4, 2016)

67 gto, just getting ready to put in 12 bolt posi, 373 gears with disc breakes,moser parts. the front, putting in disc breakes front end rear end had all new poly installed. drives great but wouldnt stop with drum brakes, so here is my ??? would you put in a tubular control arms in the rear for launching or stay stock, also what is the biggest tir u can put in the rear without tubing


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