# VIN Number Help



## dasmooe (Jul 4, 2019)

July 4, 2019

I'm looking at a fully restored 1964 Pontiac LeMans, they say is a GTO - but I want to be sure before I even get started into the purchasing/Offer phase. The VIN No. is 824P2524653.

I know the following:
8 = Eight Cylinders
2 = LeMans
4 = 1964
P = Built in Pontiac Mich
**I don't know what the last 6 digits are. I know on the 64 & 65's, the build sheet showed LaMans or Tempest w/ GTO Package.
2 = ?
5 = ?
2 = ?
4 = ?
5 = ?
3 = ?

Can anybody give me the info represented in the last six numbers???


Thanks for your consideration in my request.

Rick - Salem, Ore.
e-Mail: [email protected]


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dasmooe said:


> July 4, 2019
> 
> I'm looking at a fully restored 1964 Pontiac LeMans, they say is a GTO - but I want to be sure before I even get started into the purchasing/Offer phase. The VIN No. is 824P2524653.
> 
> ...



I suggest doing some research on identifying the 1964-65 GTO. These are some of the easiest to fake and someone who hasn't any knowledge on what to look for or check can quickly find themselves being taken for big money on a fake or clone.

The GTO was indeed an option on a Lemans. The numbers you ask about do not have any specific meaning individually. They are a group of numbers called the "Sequential Serial Number" by the assembly plant that manufactured the car.

Order the PHS documents for that car by its VIN number and verify through the documents that it is indeed a Lemans with the GTO option. The billing history will show the "382" GTO Option as well as the engine code and transmission type/rear axle ratio among other things. I would not consider buying any GTO without the PHS documents to verify the car. 

Often times, but not a guarantee, there should be a "5N" on the Data Plate found on the firewall. Again, these can be purchase reproduction, so the PHS documents are the best bet in confirming a 1964-65 GTO.

Match VIN number with the stamped VIN number typically found on the back frame rail somewhere behind the left rear tire. Many states require 2 forms of verification to authenticate the car as original, not stolen, or salvaged.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The only way to verify the car if you do not have the original Protect-O-Plate is to order the PHS documents for the vehicle from PHS Services.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

PontiacJim said:


> Often times, but not a guarantee, there should be a "5N" on the Data Plate found on the firewall. Again, these can be purchase reproduction, so the PHS documents are the best bet in confirming a 1964-65 GTO.


X2, The 5N was supposedly used at the Pontiac and Kansas City plants only,


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

PHS - Pontiac Historical Services

PHS Historic Services


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## tonyskala (Feb 7, 2015)

Man.. No one is trying to be a jerk to anyone.. but this has been discussed a lot on the forum. 

The only way you can definitively tell on a 1964 Pontiac Lemans If it had the gto option is to get a phs from the Pontiac Historical Society. 

There is no short cut to this. 

And technically all 1964 GTO's are infact Lemans with a GTO option. 

Save yourself a bunch of headaches and just get the PHS from the PHS services. One that is handed to you by the seller can be faked as well. And I would not even trust like Barret Jackson or Meecham. They are clear that they are not responsible for misrepresentations. 

The ONLY one I would trust is the one coming from PHS delivered to you by PHS.

And if anyone thinks a PHS cant be faked, send DM to me of your VIN number and I will make and entire packet up for you for FREEEEEEE... Act I will not, But I can post the template with a fake watermark. Actually I will make one this weekend with a VIN of a random car. but it can totally be done. 


PHS Automotive Services, Inc.

it is 75 dollars, and will save you tons of time money and frustration from someone trying to pass of a lemans with a gto option.


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