# AutoWeek Driver's Log: 2005 GTO



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

*AutoWeek Driver's Log: 2005 GTO*









http://autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102926​


> *2005 Pontiac GTO*
> AUTOWEEK
> 
> *Published Date:* 8/15/05
> ...



I know that most of you guys don't want to hear it, but I agree with these guys on just about _everything_ except the usual styling whines...which is subjective anyway. I've put what I feel the definitive sentence of the piece in bold...he's exactly right. It's already a superlative value (not addressed above, BTW, so that's guilt by omission), but if Holden can address those concerns I've put in bold, this car would be a true _world-beater_.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

I agree, but as another editorial did....They didnt get the engine right.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

The seats are too soft? There has never been any mention of that anyplace else. Seems like the first guy threw that out -- and the rest of them decided to parrot it. Instead of complaining about the seats -- maybe they need to get their flabby butts into the gym. 

Problem with a the gap between the dead pedal and clutch? Again, never heard of that. My feet are size 11 -- and I sometimes drive with big 'ol riding boots when going to the stables -- with no problem. Maybe something's up in the '05s -- but I can't imagine that to be the case.

Anybody else think the seats are too soft? That the gap between the clutch and dead pedal (in the '05s) is too small?


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

b_a_betterperson said:


> The seats are too soft? There has never been any mention of that anyplace else. Seems like the first guy threw that out -- and the rest of them decided to parrot it. Instead of complaining about the seats -- maybe they need to get their flabby butts into the gym.
> 
> Problem with a the gap between the dead pedal and clutch? Again, never heard of that. My feet are size 11 -- and I sometimes drive with big 'ol riding boots when going to the stables -- with no problem. Maybe something's up in the '05s -- but I can't imagine that to be the case.
> 
> Anybody else think the seats are too soft? That the gap between the clutch and dead pedal (in the '05s) is too small?


Hey B,
The seat thing is BS AND I dont see why the suspension needs to be any firmer than it is. They need to get the body roll out of it is all. My back wouldnt take too much more from the suspension. These seats are awesome, save the mechanics. The space between the clutch and the kick plate is very small for me. Size 15's and the inside of my shoe scrapes against the pedal when I try and stuff it down there. When I wear work boots, forget it. I just end up with my foot flat on the floor in front of the pedal. I guess I dont know what "heel to toe" driving is, my feet are big enough that my heel is either on the floor mat or my toes are ripping out electrical wiring under the dash. :cheers


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I don't think the seats are too soft, but I do agree that more bolster would be better....I'd like an adjustable lumbar too. However, I recognize the price point the GTO sits at and the seats are good for the money.

I do think the suspension, out of the box, is a bit too boaty. PE bushings helped, and Yellow Konis would rock. But I'm kinda hardcore that way.

I _can_ heel-toe the pedals, but the difference in elevation between the brake and accelerator make it clumsier than it can be. I can't comment on the dead pedal thing because I don't _have_ one.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I don't think the seats are too soft, but I do agree that more bolster would be better....I'd like an adjustable lumbar too. However, I recognize the price point the GTO sits at and the seats are good for the money.
> 
> I do think the suspension, out of the box, is a bit too boaty. PE bushings helped, and Yellow Konis would rock. But I'm kinda hardcore that way.
> 
> I _can_ heel-toe the pedals, but the difference in elevation between the brake and accelerator make it clumsier than it can be. I can't comment on the dead pedal thing because I don't _have_ one.


You dont have an adjustable lumbar? Both my seats have this big cog-shaped wheel on the side that allows you to stuff a shi*-load of lumbar in your back.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

JMVorbeck said:


> You dont have an adjustable lumbar? Both my seats have this big cog-shaped wheel on the side that allows you to stuff a shi*-load of lumbar in your back.



D'oh. Brainfart. I misspoke (missposted?).

I meant _thigh support_...but _lumbar_ stuck in my head.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

The only criticism I really agree with is about pedal placement. If the brake and clutch were scootched just a _bit _ to the right, it'd do two things: 1) make heel-and-toe shifting easier; and 2) make it easier for my left foot to go back and forth from the clutch to the dead pedal. As it is, I often catch my toe on the backside of the hood release going from the dead pedal to the clutch (and I'm not a bigfoot--just size 11-and-a-half).

Heel-and-toe shifting _is_ possible in the GTO; it's just not as easy as it is in other cars. I've never been a true heel-and-toer, anyhow. I don't put my right heel on the brake and blip the throttle with my toe during downshifts. Instead, I put the ball of my foot on the right edge of the brake pedal and blip the throttle with the outer edge of my foot. In the GTO, that's kinda tough to do, as the brake and accelerator are just too far apart. To get the job done, I have to twist my right foot to about two o'clock and try to bridge the gap. The scary thing is, there've been times when, in trying to simultaneously brake and blip the throttle, my foot actually slipped off the brake. If the two pedals were just a smidgen closer, all would be well.

The seats are great. And for the purpose this car serves, the suspension doesn't need to be any firmer.


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## Phantom05 (Jul 13, 2005)

6.0 LS1.....I wish they would have put that at the begining of the editorial, so I would have known to stop reading right then and there. 

The seats are too soft....come on, I have sat in a few C5's and have thought that our goats seats were better than theirs (not to step on toes, just my opinion). Someone probably should have shown them the lumbar support on the side.  

steering dead spot "Death Valley".....I feel very comfortable with the steering at high speeds. Don't have a clue what they meant there. 

Freaking Autoweek, GOSH!


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## Punchy (May 11, 2005)

What dead pedal ??????


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> Size 15's


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## sno-rydr (Oct 13, 2004)

so what is hee-toe shifting. i read about it all the time but never had it explained to me. i can't make sense of it because how could you use your heel? about as close as i can figure, it means to keep the left half of your foot on the brake, and the right half over the accelerator to blip the throttle when you downshift while braking.


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## YouHolden? (Jun 29, 2005)

I kind of find just the way the engine behaves makes heel and toe-ing a little tough. THe engine isnt as rev-happy as say a bmw engine, so it takes a little more punch on the throttle to rev match. I can still run down the gears easily coming up to a stop, but it definitley isnt as easy. I wish there was a fix for this .

Suspension does need help, but nothing a thick sway bar, subframe connectors, koni yellows, and a thick strut bar can't fix...as we have seen in the SCCA :rofl:


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## SJAndrew (Sep 28, 2004)

Wow...

Seats too _soft_? Please.....

Brakes not grabby enough? Wow...

I am of exactly the opposite opinion than these two opinions. How in the world can anyone call the brakes on the 2005 not grabby enough? When I bump the brake by accident with my giant feet, I practically lock the wheels.

And, I have *never* had better, more firm seats. 

I agree that the room around the pedals is tight...although I would choose more room between the brake pedal and clutch. I rarely put my foot on the dead pedal so I don't care about more room to the left.

I would also agree with the mushy "dead spot" in the steering when going straight. That being said, once a turn is started, the steering is tight, confident and extremely accurate.

Lastly, I'm sick and tired reading about the styling. Am I the only one who likes having an understated coupe? The concept photos of the next gen goat look waaaayyyy to gaudy for me. I love the sleek look of the Monaro and think the retro look of the concept looks....too loud.


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## diverdan (Apr 27, 2005)

The seats are world class, far better than the C5's, and are not too soft, IMO.

From an '04 perspective, they are right on with the pedals; there should have been a dead pedal and the clutch and brake should have been moved right, allowing heel-toe and avoiding the issue of having one's foot caught behind the clutch (size 12's here).

The suspension is pretty good but could do with a little less body roll and wider rear tires.

I don't know what they are talking about with the steering.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

*Seats * ==> show me something better or even as good for $33K. These seats are very good from bolstering, to shape, firmness/comfort. Now about that seat motor. Save some money and throw in a mechanical ratchet device. 

*Steering & Suspension * ==> Tough one. I'd really like snappier steering and a firmer suspension a la the Z51 option on the Vette. But not if it ruins the daily driver comfort that sold me on this car. I don't want a harsh riding noisy race car. I think GM/Holden did a good job with the suspension choices.

*Brakes * ==> I haven't driven an 04 but my 05 brakes are powerful, predictable, and they don't fade as much as my Vette did when slowing from triple digit speeds. They do a fine job of converting kinetic energy to heat.

*Looks * ==> Ya pays your money and ya makes yer choice. I really do like the low profile nature of the car. Actually, GM could go even lower profile and delete the rear wing without offending me. As for that 1999 show car being discussed in another thread, I would be too embarassed to drive anything that remotely resembled that rolling piece of polymer.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Anyone else think Motorweek films its shows on an old VHS Camcorder? I know its PBS but come on! There are camera phones that have better video quality. And whats up with that Gass, or Guss or whatever the hell his name is. Does he actually know anything about cars? I actually fast forward the Tivo through most of his idiotic ramblings about how disc brakes work or "Today in "Guss's garage" we are going to talk about air fresheners". Who is the poor kid with the 3 foot long pony tail that never has any lines, but always gets to show off the power seat mechanisms in every car they test. My favorite was a couple weeks ago they had a Maybach on there. Now this car was in the couple hundred thousand dollar range. It was perfect, they had this kid in there moving the seats back and fourth and pushing buttons. You couldnt have contrasted the car with the person in it any better. They should have hired the "Monopoly-Man" from Ace Ventura Pet Detective to sit in the car and push buttons all the while peering at the driver through his monocle. "I say there, I have a meeting at the club. Lets get underway Belvadiere" Another thing that bothered me was, I pronounce it "May-Bach". Right or wrong thats how its spelled. The host kept calling it "My-Bach", it was like nails on a chalkboard. Anyway, thats my rant. In the words of Chapelle "If you've got hate in your heart.....Let it out"


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## SJAndrew (Sep 28, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> As for that 1999 show car being discussed in another thread, I would be too embarassed to drive anything that remotely resembled that rolling piece of polymer.


Amen to that brother...

The GTO concepts I've seen are....fugly imho.

They should bury the GTO name with the last iteration of the car built in the 1970's. The GTO should have been named a G7 or something. It's NOT like a GTO. It's more like an M3 than a GTO imho. 

Anyway, I'm glad I got a Monaro while I could. I have been exceedingly pleased with the car. And, judging by the people I see staring my car down on my commute, I know I'm not the only one who think's it's a gorgeous car.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

JMVorbeck said:


> Anyone else think Autoweek films its shows on an old VHS Camcorder? I know its PBS but come on!


You've got AutoWeek magazine mixed up with MotorWeek, the TV show. Easy mistake. But your comments about how lame MotorWeek is are valid.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

GM Kid said:


> You've got AutoWeek magazine mixed up with MotorWeek, the TV show. Easy mistake. But your comments about how lame MotorWeek is are valid.


Oh thats right! I will edit that post. Thanks.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

It's wonderful how so many people even to this day, almost 2 years after the 04 goat was released, magazines and such still criticize how the goat looks. But many people when they see it in real life love the looks of it - they think it's very clean and sophisticated.

The general public really need to make up their minds


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

RiceEater said:


> But many people when they see it in real life love the looks of it - they think it's very clean and sophisticated.
> 
> 
> > I was just thinking about this today. For whatever reason, my GTO engenders much more favorable reaction from the general public than my C5 ever did. A sociologist probably would have a fun time figuring that out, but my hunch is that hot cars fall into two camps: Cars people openly love, and cars people resent.
> ...


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

GM Kid said:


> I was at a ritzy Scottsdale shopping mall one time watching a guy park his gorgeous yellow Lamborghini Gallardo.


Are you talking about that mall by the Arizona Biltmore? Del Webb used to be a client of mine -- and their headquarters were right around the corner from it. 

I'd have time to kill before/after trips to Sky Harbor and would wind up heading over there for lunch. A non-stop plastic surgery parade. And I am not complaining. Amazing.

Regarding the Lambo and Ferrari crowd -- this is a gross generalization -- but they're pretty annoying. Used to sit in front of a coffee house to read the paper every morning -- and some idiot pulls up in a Diablo so his lady can get a double tall decaf nonfat yak milk latte -- and he's letting the thing idle at something like 5K rpm. The thing is loud as hell. Asked him to give everybody a break -- and he told me to go f-myself -- whereupon 4 or 5 other people chime in. He just looked ahead, diddled with his cell phone and sat there idling. When it came time to leave (10 minutes later), he revved the engine really high just to be a baby -- and promptly stalled it! Got a nice round of applause from everyone. We never saw him again.

The Ferrari guys are the same way. In San Jose's Santana Row and downtown Los Gatos -- they drive up and down the street in their "hey look at me I've got a Ferrari" mobiles -- and they rev them really loud, etc. They keep driving around until the drunk scary looking women come out of the bars -- easy prey to make themselves feel like the conquerers of the universe. Yawn.


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

b_a_betterperson said:


> Are you talking about that mall by the Arizona Biltmore? Regarding the Lambo and Ferrari crowd -- this is a gross generalization -- but they're pretty annoying.


No, but good guess. It was Kierland Commons, a similarly designed outdoor mall. Very trendy. Attracts the same crowd as Biltmore Fashion Park, except the "new" hasn't worn off yet.

Regarding Ferraris, Lambos and their ilk, it's a shame there has to be such a disconnect between the enthusiasm you feel when seeing one in a magazine and the disdain you experience when you actually encounter one--and its owner--in real life. People like the jerk you saw at the coffee house can take a remarkable feat of art and engineering and render it nothing more than a bauble. A shame.

If I ever struck it rich and was able to buy something like a Lambo, I suspect I probably wouldn't do it for fear I'd be spending so much time convincing others (honest! I really, really mean it!) that I'm not overcompensating or going through some kind of crisis. The cool thing about the GTO is that, for whatever reason, those headaches are never an issue. People just seem to like it, and they have no problem telling me so.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

I can guarantee you that I would never spend the money for a Ferrari or Lam just because I would not want to be thought of like every other person who drives one. You're right, most of the people who drive those cars are usually jackoffs who only had enough money to buy one because their daddy left them a few million from all the hard work he did in his life. The people who drive them usually have no concept of true hard work, and are usually total jerks to anyone they perceive as "below" them. This of course isn't guaranteed, but it seems most of them are this way.

I would much rather get a nice Mercedes, or a Maserati. The crowd that buys these vehichles are usually much more respectable and have a realization as to what a dollar is worth. I'd just much rather be associated with someone who's responsible and not jerk-offish, than be associated with someone who's a loser.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

Dang GM,

That is one of the most discerning posts I've read in an automotive enthusiast forum. :agree 




GM Kid said:


> RiceEater said:
> 
> 
> > But many people when they see it in real life love the looks of it - they think it's very clean and sophisticated.
> ...


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## GM Kid (Mar 21, 2005)

70sFlashback said:


> Dang GM,
> 
> That is one of the most discerning posts I've read in an automotive enthusiast forum. :agree


Thanks, Flash! Although sometimes I suspect that I think too much. . .


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## Jondster (Dec 28, 2004)

I always wondered about the lack of a dead pedal and figured it was because there's no place designed into the floor pan to mount one. You gotta remember that this car was intended as a right-sider driver.

Re: the ****-luxo cars and their owners:

"What's the difference between a porcupine and a (insert car name here) ?"

Answer " On a porcupine the pricks are on the outside"


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## Pennsylvania Goat (Jul 22, 2005)

*Useless Dead Pedal for people with....feet.*

Not sure about you guys but I SERIOUSLY have to drive my car bare-footed. My work boots or even dress shoes hit the clutch all wrong and will not fit between the clutch to rest on the dead pedal. I wear a size 12 - 12.5. Its the one thing that really ticks me off. Trust me, those pedals are H O T in the summer and should be nice and freezing come October. 

Other than that, I love the car.


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

Haha yeah, could definately see wearing work boots being a problem here :lol:


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