# A/4 WITH CAM. Stall vs 4.10 GEARS



## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

Hey Everyone.

Trying to help a 05 GTO owner with his choice.

He has a 05 GTO with A/4 trans, good sized cam , LTs and exhaust.

Still has the stock converter in his car and as is not happy with his acceleration under 3000 RPMs. He wants to do a set of 4.10 gears.

no matter what gear ratio he picks
For all around daily use in mixed driving should he get a Stall or the Gears. I told him he needs a converter but his mind is just about made up on the gears.

What do you think would be the best way to go.

JOHN


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

3.90:1 is the lowest you can go in the stock DANA 44 housing.
It is also expensive, $600+, but still
cheaper than a full rear modification.
It would be a bad choice for a DD, as the A4
doesn't have a tall highway gear.

Just my $.02

Larry


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

AlaGreyGoat said:


> 3.90:1 is the lowest you can go in the stock DANA 44 housing.
> It is also expensive, $600+, but still
> cheaper than a full rear modification.
> It would be a bad choice for a DD, as the A4
> ...


The A/4 05 GTOs have a 3.46 rear gear and it's 4th gear over drive is a .069. at 65 MPH speeds they are turning around 2000 RPMs which is not bad at all. 

But he insists that gears will be better then doing a stall on his car. The cam in his motor is a 589/584 lift and he is still using the stock torque converter.

Not matter what ratio he picks, what will be better for every day use. Gears or a stall


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

65 @ 2000RPM is bad. I'm at like 80 at 200o in my M6. IF he plans to drive it on the street, I wouldn't do any gearing changes. He needs a stall and thats it.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

jpalamar said:


> 65 @ 2000RPM is bad. I'm at like 80 at 200o in my M6. IF he plans to drive it on the street, I wouldn't do any gearing changes. He needs a stall and thats it.


That is what I said to him. Also told him I don't know anyone running 4.10s in their GTOs, especially one with an A/4 trans


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I've only seen two gearsets for the rearend on the GTO thats 3.73 and 3.90. When I had my 84 T/A it came stock with 3.73 in the rear with the 700R4 auto same gear set as the A4 GTO's 4L60E tranny. I think I was turning 2k RPM around 60mph. I love that gear ratio for an auto, I think 3.90s would be too much low end for the A4 GTO because it has a 3.06 first. I would put 3.90s in a M12 GTO though but not mine. 

I'm turning about 3k RPM at 80mph with my stock gears.


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## vxssls1 (Sep 9, 2006)

if its a decent cam i stall will be the way to go it will fix that doughyness down low 

there is a company that makes 4.11 for the stock 80 series housing now(in Aus)


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## deputycrawford (Jan 16, 2010)

A stall is the best way to go . I have a 253 MM Circle D 2800 rpm stall in my G8 (Commodore). I had a family member start and drive my car without telling her about it. She could not tell the converter was in the car. If you have the right converter built for the car, you will not be able to tell a whole lot of difference. Call a converter company and have them spec or build you a proper converter. 
I wish I could have your buddy drive my car. I cannot explain how much of a difference a proper converter makes. The car drive fine every day. Remember, it locks up under light loads so it doesn't drop fuel milage or heat the trans much if any more. Just run a small trans cooler for safety, although many don't.
The car feels so much better at low rpms and part throttle. You just have to take a ride in one or drive one. I have had converters in three of my last four cars and one of them is a manual. Thats gotta tell you something. Hope that helps. 

Jerry


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

I think this guy is clueless as to what he actually has in his car. He is from another web site.

He purchased the car from a dealer around a month ago and said that it feels very sluggish when on the gas under 3000 RPMs and thought that gears would be the way to go. 

He sent me an email 5 days ago telling me that he took the car in for a tune and he found out that he has a 234/234/ cam, 3200 RPM stall, 3.90 gears, Comp 921 valve springs, Roller rockers and hardened push rods. I asked if this Tuner had Xray eyes. Unless he installed all this stuff, how could he tell you have all this and how could the car feel slow and not pull very well when on the gas. His claimed numbers of 400RWHP @ 6500RPMs and 339 RWTQ @ 5200 RPMs just does not sound right and I told him that. I think he must have just received his new Summits parts catalog in the mail and he just pulled stuff out of mid air.

There are a lot of items I don't know about these cars but I do know that 400 HP and 339 TQ is not right and you just can't tell he has Non OEM springs, rockers and push rods without pulling the valve covers.

Was just trying to help him out with his sluggish car and just thought that a cammed A/4 would be better off with a stall and not gears. Now he has everything and he said the car is still a pig. I gave up.

Thanks for everything guys.

JOHN


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

LOWET said:


> I think this guy is clueless as to what he actually has in his car. He is from another web site.
> 
> He purchased the car from a dealer around a month ago and said that it feels very sluggish when on the gas under 3000 RPMs and thought that gears would be the way to go.
> 
> ...


If he has that cam (and headers I would assume) 400hp doesn't sound right. I'd question the tune or the assessment of what he has. As stated there are no 4.10 gears as of yet (altho I've heard of one vendor looking into getting into gears) without doing a conversion on the whole rear end. It would kill his gas mileage _if_ he could get them. A stock M6 turns about 1,800 rpm at 70 MPH. I really think he needs to take it to a track and see what it traps to assess power. I don't trust dynos without knowing the particular one and if everything looks right speed-wise and he still feels that way maybe he should sell it.


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