# How to choose the right headers?????



## Getyourgoat (Jul 1, 2014)

Anyone up for a game of 21 questions? 
Cheers to anyone who offers their advice on any one of my questions. :cheers

I want to install headers on my 1967 GTO that has a 455 engine and TH-400 automatic transmission.
I would appreciate any pointers or considerations I haven’t thought about.
I’m thinking about stainless and tying it in to my existing steel pipes.
I have a limited amount of money to spend although I may be willing to spend a little extra if I have a compelling reason to do so.
I will try to post pictures along the way thru the install.
Who knows, this thread may turn out to be the world’s most definitive guide on header installation for a 67 GTO!

*How to choose and install the right headers.*

1.	Should I buy steel or stainless headers, what are the pros and cons?
2.	Are there issues when mating up stainless to my existing steel pipes?
3.	If I buy stainless, what grade of stainless should I buy for best quality?
4.	If I buy steel, should I get chrome, ceramic coated or painted?
5.	Will stainless and/or chrome discolor after a while?
6.	Should I buy long tube, mid length or short “block hugger” type headers?
7.	Are there clearance issues with long vs mid length vs short styles?
8.	Will I need to put a “DING” in the side of any of the tubes to get around clearance issues with the steering column, starter, oil filter, transmission etc.?
9.	If a “DING” is required, what is the best method of doing so without damaging the coating?
10.	When completed with installation, will I have to remove the header to change my oil filter?
11.	Will I have to unbolt the motor mounts and roll the motor side to side to install the headers?
12.	What is the best way to avoid exhaust leaks?
13.	Are there any special high quality gaskets I should consider buying?
14.	Do the header to engine bolts need to be torqued (I would think so) and if so, are there any tricks/tips to getting a torque wrench in the right place due to limited work space?
15.	What should I consider when buying fasteners, bolts etc.?
16.	Will the header need to be welded to the exhaust pipe or can I use some sort of fittings?
17.	Afterwards will painting or powder coating exhaust pipes and glass pack mufflers cause any sort of heat issues?
18.	Do the headers have to be installed from underneath or thru engine bay?
19.	Will my standard floor jack that has a 21 inch lift get me high enough in the air to do the job or will I have to find a car lift somewhere?
20.	Do I need any special tools other than the standard mechanics tool set?
21.	Is there any one particular brand that fits up or performs better than the other?


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

After considering your questions, I recommend RARE manifolds instead of headers. 

RM-1-OS D-Port Ram Air Style Factory Headers - Oversized 64-67 GTO plus other apps

You can buy 'em with a smaller outlet, for less, or with ceramic coating for more. With a good 2 1/2" exhaust system, these will perform nearly as good as headers. The ceramic coating will look better. But it will take a LONG time for the bare ones to rust thru. 

These will eliminate most of the problems you mentioned in your questions. My opinion is: if it is not a race only car, why put headers on it and then choke 'em down with a full exhaust system ? Just don't make good sense to me. 

The only good reason I can think of to run headers, would be if you don't have $400 for the manifolds. You can buy some cheap, painted headers, and save a few bucks.


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## TinIndian68 (Mar 22, 2015)

Hey Man:

I installed headers a little over a year ago on my 1968 GTO. Originally, I was not going to do them because about half the people I talked with said they are an unnecessary pain in the arse. Once I began installing them, I wish I never bought them, but once they were done, I am so glad I did - they sound great. I purchased a set of Doug's Headers simply because the Pontiac guys I spoke with said they are top of the line. I paid a little extra to have them ceramic coated, and they haven't faded, rusted, or changed color at all - and I drive my car a good bit in the spring and summer.

In terms of the installation, I used a friend's car lift. Without that, I can't imagine how much of a pain it would have been to install these. There are some bolts you get to from the top, some from the side with the car about chest level, and some from underneath. I had to hit one of the driver-side header-tubes to keep it form hitting the control arm, but that was it. I did have to remove the heat shield on the driver's side too, but no big deal. I would recommend paying special attention to brake lines, transmission coolant lines, positive battery to starter solenoid wire, and speedometer cable once the installation is complete. Get some zip-ties, or something to tie-back the cables away from the headers. I bought some thermal wrap and shielded some of the lines I have from the headers, and I haven't had any issues.

In terms of having to weld to your exhaust - well, that depends on which type of exhaust you get. I bought all new 2.5" flowmaster exhaust along with my headers, and they bolted-up perfectly. The flowmaster kit came with adapter flanges that bolt to the headers, then I used band clamps where the exhaust tie-into those. I also used band clamps for the tail-pipes that come straight out. I just didn't want to deal with welding, and if I ever need to take them off, all I need is a wrench - but that is just me.

I got the flowmaster exhaust and doug's headers from www.amesperf.com; but, you can find them on jegs, or summit, or the dougs/flowaster websites as well along with others. You are going to pay for the quality, but I am telling you the tone is perfect.

Hope this helps.


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## Getyourgoat (Jul 1, 2014)

Finding a lift isn't going to be easy.
The over sized manifolds sounds interesting.
Thanks for the reply guys.
More opinions welcome!
Please post pictures if you have em!


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

oldskool said:


> After considering your questions, I recommend RARE manifolds instead of headers.
> 
> RM-1-OS D-Port Ram Air Style Factory Headers - Oversized 64-67 GTO plus other apps
> 
> ...


Agree on the RARE '67 A body manifolds for this application. Oversized (2.2") outlets and drop down out of each one with mandrel bent tubing lead piece into a welded 2 1/2" head pipes. This is how the original head pipes for '73-74 SD Birds were made, no kinks in the near 90 degree bend to restrict flow. 

If the 455 has been built running heavily ported heads, and considerable compression, and the build is producing over 500 gross HP at the crank, I'd consider a good set of Doug's headers. After fitting them in the vehicle, dinging any tight spots with a ball peen hammer, then driving the car, you can pull the headers back out and have them coated locally. it's a PITA, but just ordering them coated, and then installing them, there usually is a tight spot and the ball peen hammer has to come out and you end up marring the finish on a few tubes.


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## Getyourgoat (Jul 1, 2014)

Pinion head said:


> Agree on the RARE '67 A body manifolds for this application. Oversized (2.2") outlets and drop down out of each one with mandrel bent tubing lead piece into a welded 2 1/2" head pipes.


Will these sound as good as headers?
What is "mandrel bent tubing lead piece"?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Getyourgoat said:


> Will these sound as good as headers?
> What is "mandrel bent tubing lead piece"?


the piece of exhaust tubing that has a flared flange on it and bolts to your ex manifolds is either bent conventionally with dies and has kinks in the inside of the bend, flattening down that area and restricting exhaust flow, or the piece of exhaust tubing is bent in a mandrel bending machine and has no kinks, no restrictions. Mandrel bent lead sections and complete mandrel bent head pipes are avail from PYPEs and from Delfield (RARE). The PYPEs systems seem to fit better. For many years, I bought J and U bend mandrel bent tubing pieces out of Arkansas and carefully made my own mandrel bent lead sections, then spliced these sections into head pipes that I had bent on a friends conventional exhaust pipe bending machine. Lot easier today.

On the sound, it's all in the ear of the beholder, while I've installed many sets of headers and threw away even more, personally, there is no powerful sound that I tend to like just from headers on anormal streetcar. Some combinations sound very tinny. If you get on YouTube, search for Rocky Rotella's exhaust video's. Rocky has several video's up with DB meters and different cross flow mufflers on his and his Dad's TransAms. there are other Pontiac guys that have video's up too that are related to exhaust systems.


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## Getyourgoat (Jul 1, 2014)

Has anyone ever installed Doug's Headers Part #564?
If so, what issues did you encounter?

I talked to a guy at PerTronix Performance Products, the makers of Doug's headers. According to him, the headers will slip right in, no dings necessary.
Check out these Metallic Ceramic Coated babies.

D564
http://images.pertronix.com/Exhaust%20Products/Dougs%20Headers/D564.jpg

Lowest price I could find.
Amazon.com: Doug's Headers D564 1-3/4" 4-Tube Full Length Metallic Ceramic Coated Exhaust Header for Pontiac GTO 326-455 64-67: Automotive


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The right headers for your car are the ones that remain on the catalog pages and on the shelves in the parts house. What Oldskool and Pinion head said: the cast iron HO manifolds are all you need and are trouble free and actually fit. BTDT with many tube headers over the years on these cars....


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