# First post: Compare 06 GTO vs. 07 Mustang GT



## RollTide87 (Jan 30, 2007)

I have been looking at 07 Mustang GT's. Actually, I had pretty much decided on getting one and was getting ready to put my current car up for sale and deciding on color and package for the GT when I became intrigued by another option. I was running some errands and drove by the local Pontiac dealer and they had a few 06 GTO's left that I might could get a really good deal on. A little background: I currently have a modified 99 Miata. It has a 4-point rollbar, aftemarket suspension upgrades, and intake/header/exhaust. Over the past few years, I have ran autocross and an occasional track day. Now, I want to get a new car for two reasons - one, I need a car with a back seat because my wife and I have a son (now 19 months) and only having one vehicle that will hold all three of us is a logistical pain at times and two, I want a new toy. 

So I had test driven a 5-speed GT premium with 3.55 gears and liked it a lot. Then I saw the GTO and took it for a test drive and liked it as well. They both have their pro's and con's. I have only had brief test drives in both. I have also done some research on-line and in car magazines. 

Mustang GT 
* Styling - I really like the retro style. It looks agressive and the proportions are great. 
* Handling - at least in the short test drive, the Mustang felt lighter on it's feet and a little more tossable. It's no Miata but seemed to handle pretty well. The test drive really didn't offer much of a chance to really push it to see if the live axle was an issue. Even though the external dimensions are all fairly close, the Mustang felt smaller and more nimble. 
* Better gas milage and regular gas. 
* Shifter is much better in the Mustang than the GTO. 
* Real trunk space 
* Better aftermarket support and local chapter of Mustang club 

GTO 
* Styling is not as attactive as the Mustang. I think it looks nice but not great. Much more of a generic coupe look whereas the Mustang looks like nothing else on the road. 
* Interior of the GTO felt much more upscale than the Mustang. It had almost a European feel to it. Much roomier back seat although neither car was the greatest in terms in ingress/egress. 
* Acceleration - The Mustang may hook up better off the line than the IRS on the GTO but the 2nd gear, 25-mph acceleration of the GTO was impressive. Mustang was good but GTO felt much stronger. I am not into street racing or drag racing so a flat 0-60 or 1/4 mile is not critical. On-a-roll acceleration is more important. 
* Exclusiveness - I know the GTO was slow seller but the upside is that you don't see them every day 

So I have some questions for the GTO experts (I posted a similar post on a Mustang board):

Does anyone autocross or run roadcourse trackdays with their GTO's? How do they hold up? In reading another thread, there seems to be quite a few GTO owners who don't really drive their cars very much. What are your concerns about long term parts availability (other than driveline, I assume engine/trans parts will be OK.)? Anything else to consider? Thanks in advance for your input.


----------



## GTJimbO (Apr 28, 2006)

Well, stying is a personal choice. I can't agree with you on the Mustang looking better. I do like the new Mustang's styling for what it is, but I personally prefer the GTO's very Euro styling (Euro to me, anyway -- again it's very subjective here...)

Now on the side of practicality, I LOVE my GTO, BUT, the trunk is SERIOUSLY lacking. And if you have a 19 month old, trying to haul your stuff, your wife's stuff and your kid's stuff on any kind of trip other than the corner market, forget about it. GTO is not the right choice.

Can't comment on the 'Stang's trunk space, but I know they had to modify the GTO to meet US safety standards, so they moved the gas tank which took up half the space.

Wish I could point you towards the Goat, but if it's the ONLY car you have, with a wife and child, I'd pass. If it's a second car, absoluetly go for it!

Just my $.02.


----------



## ohmy (Jan 16, 2007)

every time I look at the Mustang it makes me think "old (person owning it), holding on to the past, baby boomers".

When I look at the GTO it makes me think "sleeper, rare, power, unappreciated by most, name doesnt match the car (should have been called a G8 from the beginning)".... 

so thats just my .02 cents.

... ok here is another .02 cents while I'm on a roll: I would not be able to live with the horrible gauges on the Mustang - the tach and speedo are so far apart they're blocked by the steering wheel, I think even the Mustang groupies would agree that the interior needs to be redone..


----------



## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Thought your appraisal of both cars was fair -- although I think the styling of the Mustang both inside and out is awful. That's a matter of taste, though. Stuff like gas mileage? Hah. And the GTO runs fine on mid-grade.

Never had a problem with trunk space. It's not as deep horizontally, but it is tall. I'm amazed at how many groceries it can fit.

Regarding the autocrossing, the GTO is a grand touring car, not a sports car -- so you're going to be disappointed. That said, the IRS blows the Mustang's ancient technology away. You hit a bump in a turn, the GTO sticks where the Mustang steps way out. 

The thing is, in Australia, the Monaro, on which the GTO is based, was not a muscle car, per se, but a powerful luxury coupe -- more a contender to 3-series BMW and Mercedes coupes. Then the idiots in Pontiac's marketing decide to hang a retro name on it and compare it to Mustangs instead of the upmarket cars it was supposed to be going after. They really screwed it up.

As for the aftermarket, I beg to differ. There are craploads of mods available for the drivetrain. While there may not be as wide of a variety of available stuff -- there is more than enough to cover every major category with authority. Besides, I've seen very few Mustangs with real performance mods --- as most punt after adding wheels, tires, some kind of spoiler and lots of stickers.

Long term, the GTO will be a far superior car. I've owned a Mustang in the past - and it's the little things, like the window seals, that just go to crap because they're cheap. In the GTO, you'll see the doors are double sealed and have frame in glass construction -- just like the best German cars.

As for the car magazines, the GTO flat out crushed the Mustang in a Car and Driver comparison test in last year's 10 Best issue. Then the editors gave the Ford a bunch of extra "gotta have it factor" points so it could win -- making themselves look like idiots in process. Guess their editors couldn't have one of their 10 Best cars get beat in the same issue that the so-called "honor" was bestowed.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

RollTide87 said:


> one, I need a car with a back seat


*The Ford has back seats but they are useless. Take a real good look at them. If you "need a back seat" you'll be disappointed with the Ford GT.*


----------



## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

I'll chime in as well! 

Before buying out GOAT, we did look at the GT and it was an obvious choice to buy the GTO. 

We have one of those snap in car seats that has a permanently mounted base where we can just unclick the baby seat and carry him away. Those seats take up a lot of depth and I have enough toom to sit comfortable and still put both my son's diaper bags in the floor behind me. 

Trunk space was compensated with a luggage rack we bought that attaches to the roof with straps and suction cups. We strap a Thule cargo carrier to it and we can carry 100 lbs of stuff up there and it doesnt budge. 

The aftermarket is all over the GTO but it is expensive since it's a Corvette motor. That's my biggest complaint. There are several web sites that cater just to the GTO and you could break the bank modding this car.

The styling is nice in the GTO and had pretty much remained unchanged in the Mustang. You do have more options in the Mustang but the GTO is pretty much factory option and that's it. Leather color, wheel options and sport appearance package is about it for the GTO.

The only way I could have a Mustang is if it was top of the line Roush but for the price...NO WAY! For $45,000+ I can make far more power from the GTO with it still being naturally asperated. That is another thing. Even with the Roush S/C, the GT can just hang with a stock GTO. Same for the GT 500, with 500 HP,it is statistically the same as the GTO. And the price...OMG!

It all boils down to what you like. Get what makes you happy! Everytime you go outside and see your car, you should get such a feeling inside you that makes you unbelievable happy. Like you say to yourself, MAN that is one sexy vehicle.. If not, you are driving the wrong vehicle.


----------



## fattirewilly (May 26, 2006)

Goats stock tires are all season and not great for handling. Some summer rubber will go a good way. A Pedders suspension setup would help the autocross a bit. A Cobalt SS beat the Mustang around VIR. I'm not sure the stang will get 24 mpg at 70mph. GTO stops somewhat shorter than the stang.

Goat is all over the mustang in acceleration. Did you have the traction control off?

For kicks, can you post the link to the mustang site so we can see what they say about the GTO?


----------



## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

fattirewilly said:


> ...I'm not sure the stang will get 24 mpg at 70mph. GTO stops somewhat shorter than the stang...


My GTO got 26/27 highway going from Nebraska to Florida. Average speed was 70 mph.


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

I have a 2006 Stang GT and very happy with it,Yes the inside looks good and the outside also does too..I paid INVOICE on the Stang Gt.....
I really wanted a 2006 GTO after I saw that Dealers wanted $1000-$5000 over MSRP on Stang Gts.But Once a dealer gave me a price for INVOICE I ran to the FORD dealers and paid CASH for it.I wanted to pay For the Stang Gt with my Continental Airlines Credit,so I could have earmed 28,000 airline miles and pay the bill at the end of the month,,,But Ford only let me charge $10,000 only and the rest in cash....dammmmmm.....
Well Before I bought the Stang Gt a week before I went to a pontiac dealer and was lost in their car lot,all the G6s Grand Prixs and maybe 2 GTO....All the cars looked alike....They all had that same freaking Grill on the front...
The inside of the GTO looked nice and I am sure its fast too...But still the front of the car looked liked all the other GM cars.Yea I know Its a SLEEPER.....
I trade my cars in every 2 years and I might be looking for a new car by Sept of 2007,,,,But since I just retired I don't need to trade my cars in that offen and maybe I will wait till sometime in 2008 if I have too.....
I hope Pontiac comes out with something new and not $35,000,otherwise I can get a New Vette at around $40,000
Pontiac better do something since there will be newer Stang Gts Challengers and camaros out there..............JohnnyT:seeya:


----------



## bg2m8o (Jul 25, 2006)

Yeah, it would be fun to see the link on the Mustang board. Please do so.

Another chimer inner here:

GTO:
A truly well built solid European coupe that feels like an M3 thats gone madly drunk, slept with a Vette and this is the product. Its like no other "American" car out there. Build quality is on par with anything on the market at any price.

It is powered by a remarkable all aluminum V-8 that is one of the best engines ever put in an automobile - PERIOD. It makes mad horses and makes mad mad horses if you look at it funny. Tractable and well mannered, but poke a stick at it and you'd better be pointed in the right direction. It produces a melodious cacophony of exhaust sounds that is purely intoxicating. I fire it up just to listen. Talk about retro...... When warm the engine will lope a little at idle. NICE

The car has dated sheet metal that some don't like. Im neutral on it, but I certainly would not call the car ugly as some have. The styling is "sleeper" and that is very good when you have a car that can rip to 60 in under five seconds and has a perverse triple digit top speed. The car is not photogenic, but looks damn good in person. I get comments on it all of the time. They are relatively rare sights on the road.

The Tremec trans is saddled with a poor linkage. Some are really bad, some are just OK. The gear box itself is a little crude sounding, but it is bulletproof and works. The THM 4L65E auto is world class despite it's lack of 5 or 6 ratios, but you've gotta send uncle 1300 bucks gas guzzler funding if you go that way. With 400 lbs-ft of torque, shifting is mostly academic during normal operation anyway.

It has IRS. HUGE advantage for a canyon carver. No bump steer with the Goat. The car tends to handle well, leaning to oversteer. Application of throttle will bring the back around right now, but not abrubtly so. It loves to go sideways and is good at it. VERY VERY COOL

Getting into the back seat is a PITA, but once you're in there, all is good. Very comfy. Speaking of seats, excellent buckets. Better than almost anything on the market.

Stock Blaupunkt stereo is average. Refer to exhaust note above.

MUSTANG

Its retro and common.........hmmm... yep, thats it.

I am biased. Sorry. Deal with it.


----------



## radioboy (Jun 21, 2006)

OK then...

Having owned a couple Mustangs (and I loved 'em), I gotta say the GTO blows them away in every aspect. 

Test drove the new Stang GT...and walked away very uninspired. Test drove the Shelby GT 500, and was even less impressed. Supercharger was fun, but I couldn't get over how cheap the interior seemed. 

For the money, can't find a better deal than the GTO.


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

Glad you are happy with your GTOs
When I bought my 2006 Stang GT on Laborday of 2005,I maybe have seen 2 GTs with in a year but more V6s on the road......So the Stang GT in Mid 2005 was ALMOST as rare as a GTO......Now I have seen many more Stang Gts on the road and the rareness wore off a bit lol.....
I would think the GTO is a tad faster then the Stang Gt
And I am sure whoever wants to buy a NEW 2005 GTO can get one around $25,000 with ZERO miles and thats a deal......
I think Both the Stang Gt and the GTO are 2 cool autos..........
I still hardly ever see GTOs on the Road but still seeing Dammmmm Stang Gts lol......Hope Pontiac comes out with something soon.......JT


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

The GTO is a lot more refined. It's also heavier and has a softer suspension. If you are really into Autocrossing or Trackdays at a roadcourse, the GTO won't do very well unless you change suspensions on it. You also will probably end up needing to roll fenders to get enough rubber on the ground. 

It's kinda like this, if the Miata is a razor blade, the Mustang is a Bowie knife, and the GTO a battle axe. All can be lethal in the right hands. 

The GTO does have tons more power. It can run a low 13's high 12's quartermile while the Mustang GT is a high 13's car. The GTO also has more torque. It will definately hurt the Stang and most other cars on the 25 mph 2nd gear power roll on. 

The lack of trunk space can be mitigated by the back seat, which is larger and more useable than the Mustang. 

People that like the look of the Mustang tend to not like the GTO. But everytime you go past a cop in the Mustang, he's going to think there is some pimple faced punk that needs to be taught a lesson. The GTO kinda slips by most LEO's. You'll get asked a lot of questions about your GTO, most people will know more than you do about the Mustang. 

I almost bought a Mustang before I bought my GTO. I also looked at the Infiniti G35 before too. That's another car, along with the Subaru STI that I would consider in your position. They mat suit your tastes better as far as the road course and autocrossing is concerned. I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them.


----------



## Zoomin (Mar 26, 2005)

I suspect you're getting plenty of negatives on the GTO over on the other board, just as you're getting positives here. I'll give you my only regrets after owing one for two years:

No sunroof. But neither does the Stang

No climate control - just old fashioned hvac controls

The power seat motor - this car already weighs too much, and useless crap like this is one reason why. It's complicated and slow.

As far as the looks, the GTO is an acquired taste. I was ambivalent at first, but I really like it now. One major point in the GTO's favor is that you don't have to hunt for clues to figure out if its a V6. 

Go rent a stang for a day and live with it. I'd suggest you do that with the GTO too, but alas...


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

Screw the auto crossing lol
Its the 1/4 mile that counts I feel......Stang Gts will do 13.5 if you know how to drive
I have no trunk space at all...I bought the Shacker1000 that takesup half my trunks space,,,,and I don't even use the boom box in the trunk lol.
I am sure the GTO is a great car SINCE its not built in the States....
With all the layoff with Ford and GM,I hope to see some nice cars out soon........JT


----------



## GTJimbO (Apr 28, 2006)

Looking at my earlier post, I'm realizing it sounds like I said "go for the 'Stang". Actually what I mean is that neither will cut it really if that's your ONLY car as a new family. Goat is the way to go in a straight up comparison to the 'Stang in my opinion, but if you're family is growing and you're hauling things like strollers, and other baby gear, I wouldn't waste time on EITHER the GTO or the Mustang.

Good gawd don't think I'm saying "Minivan" either!!

Get a quick wagon or SUV. Magnum or Jeep Cheorkee SRT-8 look sweet, but I have NO idea how much they cost. There's the Trailblazer SS to consider as well. Lots of space, and it, too, has the LS series engine.

As for autocrossing, well, hmm. We all have to sacrafice things as we get older. Money if it's a second car, or heh, nor more track days if we live with a single car in favor of family.

Have you considered keeping the Miata for track/autocross (better yet trade for a GTO ;-) and getting a second car for family?

'Nuff said.

Jim M.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

RollTide87 said:


> GTO
> * Styling is not as attactive as the Mustang. I think it looks nice but not great. Much more of a generic coupe look whereas the Mustang looks like nothing else on the road.


The Mustang does look like other cars on the road... THE FOUR BILLION OF THE OTHER MUSTANGS. I swear it is the best selling car in America. And not rightly so.

GTO for the win. But what else would you expect on a GTO forum.


----------



## NT91 (Aug 30, 2005)

I have had three Mustangs over the past 12 years and the 2005-2007 are my lest favorite.
The GTO is a mans car the stang is a boys car.


----------



## dustin60 (Jun 28, 2006)

Mustangs are like buttholes....they stink and EVERYONES got them.


----------



## bluebluemblue (Dec 20, 2006)

I 2nd, 3rd, and 4th the idea of not getting a sports car for a growing family.
I had hot rods of one sort or another until we had a baby. Actually when we found out.
Pick up truck for me and a four door something for us.
We only had one child so transport in either was good in a pinch but a family car was a must. Other kids become part of your routine. 
A baby in a sports car just seems wrong..and I will hush about that.

I suppose its about how much money you have. If you can have a nice safe 4door something for the 19 month old and have a fun car for you and your lady go for it.
Just be careful.


----------



## RollTide87 (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback. I am still planning on taking both cars for another test drive to help decide. Just to clarify a bit... the GTO/Mustang will not be the primary family car. We have a Honda Pilot that is my wife's car (great vehicle for a family hauler BTW.). We also have a Ford Ranger for the Home Depot runs that I also use as a commuter a fair amount, especially when the weather is bad. The GTO or Mustang will replace the Miata. Only having one car that will hold all three of us, or that I can just leave a child seat in is kind of a logistical pain at times (plus, I want a new toy).

The feedback on the Mustang board is pretty much what you would expect and are, as expected, bias toward the Mustang (just like this board favors the GTO). Some responses are helpful, others not so much. Most of the negative comments are focused on the styling of the GTO. I think I must be one of the few people who likes the styling of both cars. The GTO looks good. I just think the Mustang looks a little better. To my eye, the proportions of the GTO don't flow quite as well around the rear quarter panel and wheel opening. Kind of makes it look like the rear tires are smaller than the fronts. I do think the GTO looks really nice from a front 3/4 view. 

The GTO feels like a more expensive car. It also has some nice upgrades such as the hood struts and cool brake calipers. The interior of the GTO is also feels more expensive than the Mustang. The Mustang seemed to have a little more of an edge.. a little more mechanical, solid feel to the shifter, a little more of a muscle-car feel. The GTO is more of a refined GT, sort of a AMG Mercedes at a reasonable price. 

Both cars sound fantistic (edge to the GTO). There is nothing like the rumble of a V-8. V6 and 4's just can't compare. 

I am more concerned about the GTO long term. Once dealers clear out their remaining inventory, will the resale value stabilize or rebound. It could be like the mid-90's Impala SS and hold it's value or it could be an albatross... to early to tell. I am also concerned about long term parts availability for such a limited production vehicle. Not so much the driveline but the GTO specific parts.


----------



## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

By law,dealerships have to have parts available for a certian number of years.

I do agree with you about many of the things you said. The shifter does suck. THe GMM rip shifter is what should of came in the GTO stock. All in all, it is the best bang for teh buck. You get all the oprions and power for that price. That is very good. I know some GT's that will climb to that amount after adding all of your options. A guy I work with bought a GT California special and it was more that the GTO. Sad thing is, not one thing was a power adder, just cosmetic enhancements.

Like I said, it all boils down to what you like. We bought a G6 GTP and love it but I know people who drove it and absolutly hate it. Said it was slow and cheap. I totally disagree, matter of opinion.


----------



## Don (Sep 20, 2004)

I ahve an 04 GTO and have autocrossed it in SCCA Fstock class. It is a lot of fun and can be steered with the throttel as well as the steering wheel. To be really competative you would want at least a set of R compound tires like Hoosiers. This would necessatate a trailer hitch and a trailer which are do-able. I understand the limits but it is still fun. On some open courses the GTO is faster than my olld SVT Focus and slower than the SVT on really tight courses.


----------



## Don (Sep 20, 2004)

I have an 04 GTO and have autocrossed it in SCCA Fstock class. It is a lot of fun and can be steered with the throttel as well as the steering wheel. To be really competative you would want at least a set of R compound tires like Hoosiers. This would necessatate a trailer hitch and a trailer which are do-able. I understand the limits but it is still fun. On some open courses the GTO is faster than my olld SVT Focus and slower than the SVT on really tight courses.


----------



## Rusty (Jun 27, 2006)

Mustang? Do you not see enough of them on the road? I yawn everytime I see one... Some of them are pretty strong cars but, YAWN! Seriously... 

The GTO, Buck-for Buck is just simply a better car than the Mustang... And you can be a little unique rather than another stang on the road (yawn)... 

Besides, you can have a stang for lunch in a GTO... If you get the munchies...


----------



## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

After thinking this over, the best possible reason to by a GTO is:

*400 horsepower > 300 horsepower*

So put that in your pipe and schmoke it, pony fans.


----------



## fattirewilly (May 26, 2006)

Linky

http://www.mustangforums.com/m_2637681/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

I'll point out here that the GTO doesn't have Onstar or memory seats as mentioned over there.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I went to the Mustang forum and was impressed with the replies. It really, as most of them and us have said, boils down to a matter of preference. Both cars are good, with the Stang being regarded by most as the better looker and the easier car to mod, the GTO being the better straightline and roadtrack performer with a more refined interior and ride.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

johnnytuinal said:


> Screw the auto crossing lol
> Its the 1/4 mile that counts I feel......Stang Gts will do 13.5 if you know how to drive
> I have no trunk space at all...I bought the Shacker1000 that takesup half my trunks space,,,,and I don't even use the boom box in the trunk lol.
> I am sure the GTO is a great car SINCE its not built in the States....
> With all the layoff with Ford and GM,I hope to see some nice cars out soon........JT


Stang GT's won't do 13.5's most of the time in central Florida. I've been to Gainesville so many times since the GT came out it isn't funny. The average stock 05-06 GTO runs 13.3-13.5 there. The average stock, and there are very few stock Mustangs, runs 13.8-14.0. I've watched Shelby GT500's there and the fastest one I saw was a 12.7, and most of them run 12.9-13.1. 

Plain and simple, with equal drivers the GT is about a half second, stock versus stock, slower than the GTO. That's 5 plus car lengths at the big end. 

What's this crack about the cars built in the states????? The Honda Accord is built here and they have a pretty good reputation. What about the Vette??? How about the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ, they are darn nice cars and have a great reputation. Then think about any VW, they are just about the worst car available in the US.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

Fergy, quit being so nice to the mustang. It doesn't deserve it. Just kidding. I just hate them because they are every other car on the road. And little punks drive them, and think there bad ass.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

fergyflyer said:


> Plain and simple, with equal drivers the GT is about a half second, stock versus stock, slower than the GTO. That's 5 plus car lengths at the big end.


The Shelby only beats the 06 GTO by a hundredth of a second doesn't it? Not much for all that extra ching. I could strip 200 pounds of fat on my goat and beat it.


----------



## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

One of the thing that disapoints me about the Mustang is...when I see one in the distance and catch up, its 90% of the time driven by a woman. I'm not pickin a fight with a woman unless she starts it.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

LYNMUP said:


> One of the thing that disapoints me about the Mustang is...when I see one in the distance and catch up, its 90% of the time driven by a woman. I'm not pickin a fight with a woman unless she starts it.


:agree :agree :agree :agree :agree


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> Stang GT's won't do 13.5's most of the time in central Florida. I've been to Gainesville so many times since the GT came out it isn't funny. The average stock 05-06 GTO runs 13.3-13.5 there. The average stock, and there are very few stock Mustangs, runs 13.8-14.0. I've watched Shelby GT500's there and the fastest one I saw was a 12.7, and most of them run 12.9-13.1.
> 
> Plain and simple, with equal drivers the GT is about a half second, stock versus stock, slower than the GTO. That's 5 plus car lengths at the big end.
> 
> What's this crack about the cars built in the states????? The Honda Accord is built here and they have a pretty good reputation. What about the Vette??? How about the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ, they are darn nice cars and have a great reputation. Then think about any VW, they are just about the worst car available in the US.


Yea a Stock Stang GT can do 13.5 Secs and the GTO will do 13 Secs....
About a 1/2 sec for the GTO...........
As for Japaneses cars,toyota and Honda have their cars made in the states.But most of the money goes back to Japan....
Honda and Toyotas have just had a few RECALLS because of Lazy american workers.But you will not see Toyota going out of Business.....
Lets look at ford,their only best sellers are the Stang but the Fusion is very plain looking and ford will be out of Business within the next few years and their bonds are rated as JUNK....
GM has the Vettes and Caddys and thats about it,,,,,,With all the GM layoffs in the pass few years its only a matter of time Toyota will buy them out...
The Union should have done something yearsssss ago about having employees paying for some of their health benefits.And now they are screwed but thats their problem....


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

johnnytuinal said:


> Yea a Stock Stang GT can do 13.5 Secs and the GTO will do 13 Secs....
> About a 1/2 sec for the GTO...........
> As for Japaneses cars,toyota and Honda have their cars made in the states.But most of the money goes back to Japan....
> Honda and Toyotas have just had a few RECALLS because of Lazy american workers.But you will not see Toyota going out of Business.....
> ...



Wow, insult Americans, The best american cars (other than mustang), proclaim your love for jap cars, and dislocating yourself from your country.
All in one post. Yer so smart musta went to ona dem dar publik skuuls.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

johnnytuinal said:


> The Union should have done something yearsssss ago about having employees paying for some of their health benefits.And now they are screwed but thats their problem....


*Duhhhhh, "that's their problem?" Who do you think pays for this? Those costs are passed on to the consumer.

You want to blame workers for giving up what they have without fighting for it? Many blame workers for what goes wrong. Blame the company? O my God don't do that.. Union caused it. I haven't heard anyone congratulating employees when all is going good, and profits were up and sales were high. How come you didn't post about health care for the workers when all was going good? I don't hear anything about the workers for Exxon. What is in their benefit package? Exxon made over 327 BILLION last year. Should they pay more for their benefits because Exxon raked in obscene profits? Why not?? This could give Exxon added savings, and profits.

Times are tough and the workers will have to sacrifice or face the consequences. To blame the workers for the whoas of the company is wrong. Everything they have was negotiated. They were making the bucks and benes when it was all good, now people paint them as the villain when times are tough. Look at management. How much did the CEO's take in bonuses and perks? Is his health care compromised? Wait he ain't in the union is he. Blame the working stiff on the line not the CEO's and his henchmen that make the decisions of the company. They won't cut their $$$$$. It's the production workers fault for declining sales because they are making a decent buck. *


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

First I wish the US would make great cars,but they don't.......
How many Buicks do you really like? NONE
What about Satuns?,,,,,,,Still NONE
Chevy,,,We have the Corvette and Tahoe Only
Pontiac,,,,,well nothing except the GTO
And we have the Caddys and they do are making a attemped...

Ford we have the Mustang
Hummmmm maybe the Trucks but thats about it............

Theses are the cars that I can remember buying in that last 20 years...
1987 Pontiac Grandam
1989 Pontiac Firebird
1991 Chevy beretta GT
1993 Buick Skylark Yea YEa Yea stop the laughing
1995 Stang GT
1997 Stang GT
2000 Stang GT
2003 Stang GT
2006 Stang GT
So I would think I have been buying american all my life

When I see airlines cut back on Benefits in the last few years among many other companys with UNIONS.....So why have not the Auto industry????
So what,,,,why should a CEO not make $100,000 aday???
Maybe the people complaining should get a education....
I think many jobs would have been saved if Ford and GM let the employees pay into their benefits,Well blame the Union.....

Maybe I can see whats going on in the near future that most don't want to see..........JT


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

johnnytuinal said:


> First I wish the US would make great cars,but they don't.......
> How many Buicks do you really like? NONE
> What about Satuns?,,,,,,,Still NONE
> Chevy,,,We have the Corvette and Tahoe Only
> ...


The U.S. is making the greatest cars it has in 30 years.
Buick-Lucerne
Saturn-Sky
Chevy-Silverado trucks will beat any trucks on the road in almost every category hands down. The Cobalt SS.
Pontiac-the before mentioned GTO. The G6 GTP.The Solstice Is offered to dealers at like 1 a month and if the dealer sells it to other dealers they lose the ability to obtain more.
And You want to get into Cadillac?? XLR, CTS, STS, DTS. And the XLR,CTS, and STS come in a V-series as if the quality and performance wasn't enough with the regular models. You need to stop reading your bias car mags and pull you head out of your ass.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

johnnytuinal said:


> When I see airlines cut back on Benefits in the last few years among many other companys with UNIONS.....So why have not the Auto industry????
> So what,,,,why should a CEO not make $100,000 aday???
> Maybe the people complaining should get a education....
> I think many jobs would have been saved if Ford and GM let the employees pay into their benefits,Well blame the Union.....
> ...


*What is this hang up with workers paying their benefits? Your ignorance becomes you. 

"Maybe the people complaining should get a education"

Only one complaining is you. 

Ok, So every UAW member now pays 40.00 a week towards health care.... Everything is now fine now right? Brilliant. *


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

pickinfights said:


> The U.S. is making the greatest cars it has in 30 years.
> Buick-Lucerne
> Saturn-Sky
> Chevy-Silverado trucks will beat any trucks on the road in almost every category hands down. The Cobalt SS.
> ...


Add to these the Chrysler SRT cars. 
The new Chrysler Sebring.
Dodge Ram Pick-ups.
The Chrysler Pacifica, which actually makes a minivan look decent and was so good Daimler copied it for the Mercedes RL. 
The Ford Fusion is decent but the Mercury Milan and Licoln MKZ are great. 


Now lets lok at Japanese cars.
Toyota Tundra is hideous and the wrong size for everything. Also tons of recalls. The redesign may change that, but.....
The Toyota Camry. Toyota is selling them to fleets to maintain it's number one spot. The car looks like a beached Manatee. Quality has gone way down. 
I'll just make this simple the only decent looking Japanese cars are from Mazda and it part American owned. Nissan has a few, Honda has a couple. The majority are boring.

The Japanese are losing their edge in quality too. Toyota is the recall leader this year so far and has more cars being looked at by the NHTSA than any other car maker. The Camry that Car and Driver just got had mismatched trim, loose trim, a cup holder that fell out and rattles. Nissan has been horribly plauged by recalls. Mazda has always been less than perfect, it's about on par with the Americans. Honda is the only one that has retained an edge, but the American have closed the gap. 

Sorry Johnny, but you need to quit reading Consumer Reports. They're good for toasters, but they are biased when it comes to cars.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

Thanks fergy. I was hoping I wasn't the only sane person left. Toyota should leave trucks to America, they just can't get it right. My old mans 03 silverado has 100 thousand on it and just had to breakdown and buy new brakes!! It's never seen the garage. And this is a truck used for construction. Not your toyota for driving to home depot and picking up a new shower rod.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*Toyota has had trucks in America for a long, long time. Quite successfully too. Granted they are having a hard time with the Tundra, (full size) truck right now. Their smaller trucks have been quite successful. They are everywhere. They run forever, providing the older ones don't rust out. My 88 4Runner is a prime example. 99K and it runs like new. 

There are far more of them than Ford Rangers, and older Dakotas out there. They have their act together on them. The Tundra's are a different story. They should get them straightened out, but I think too much damage on the quality issue has hurt them at least for the near term.

If the quality of the Tundra could match the quality of their smaller trucks they'd gain a nice share, but so far it ain't happening. If they can get their act together on the Tundra they should rebound. Thing is, when.

I am looking at possibly replacing my 96 Ram 4x4 in the near future. More than likely I will replace it with another Ram, but when I am ready, I will check out a Tundra, unless they haven't fixed their quality issues. 

Funny how people resent Jap automobiles because it's of a foreign market, but the very ones that do sit back and watch the ball game on their Sonny High Def. or play video games on their Sony Ps3. Watch it, play it, or drive it, Jap is Jap.*


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

I never listen to consumer reports,I might look at the magazine but I would not go by what they say...
To me there are not many American Cars that I would enjoy buying,same as the Japanese cars
Only Japanese car is the Z that I would buy other then that there are not many that would make me smile....(Maybe Mazda}
I have not seen any Buicks that I would buy.I thought Buick will go out of Business soon because the cars that they make still look like they are for old men to buy....
The SKY and the Solstice don't do anything for me at alllll,,,maybe GM should have put a Bigger engine in them with Moreeeee HP.
Who really cares about Silverado trucks unless you have a backbreaking job?
The Cobalt SS,yeaaa got to be kidding,car looks cheap and anyone over 6ft will have trouble getting in and out of it.
G6,GTP I don't want to get into that because then I will have to say that the front ends of those cars loook like GTOs lol.....
Ohhhhhh I can say how Ford is on their last leg before going out of business but I don't need to go on.....
I think GM and Ford could have saved many jobs years ago but I guess they screwed up...As they said on Bloomberg the other day,you got to be nuts to buy stock from ford for the next few years to see if they will still be in business....
I will think you will see a Japanese or Koren Mustang Gt in 2010 if not sooner..Auto Companys should have seen the handwriting on the wall when jobs stated going to mexico......JT


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

johnnytuinal said:


> I never listen to consumer reports,I might look at the magazine but I would not go by what they say...
> To me there are not many American Cars that I would enjoy buying,same as the Japanese cars
> Only Japanese car is the Z that I would buy other then that there are not many that would make me smile....(Maybe Mazda}
> I have not seen any Buicks that I would buy.I thought Buick will go out of Business soon because the cars that they make still look like they are for old men to buy....
> ...


*My son has an 06' orange cobolt, he's 6'3" has no problems getting in or out of it. This car is a great car for the price. Drives great, great on gas, and a good value for younger kids.

Pontiacs have their own unique look as does a rock band have their own unique sound. 

Ford will not go out of business.

Trucks are designed now a days as a family vehicle, hence 4 doors and roominess. Pick ups now a days are a very practical vehicle whether it be a Chevy, Ford, or other. Back breaking work is good for you.

Buy stock low, sell high. Ford will rebound as did Chrysler. Buy Ford stock now, sell it later. 

Ford will not build Mustangs etc in Mexico because the Mexicans are pouring in to our country. The only people that will be left in Mexico will be tourists.

If no American, or Jap made vehicles appeal to you you can always buy a horse, or a bicycle.

The auto industry has peaks and valleys that is the nature of the business. Right now it's in a valley. It will rebound.

Koreans build throw away cars. Low end cars that barely meet U.S. Standards. 

You have a lot to say for a person who knows not what he talks about. *


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

LANCASTER, PA is that where all the amish people are lol.
The problem is I do know what I am talking about,,,most of the people on here are salespeople that don't want to say that they know their jobs are going away...
Toyota is #1
GM is #2 (for now}
I do drive a 2005 Tahoe and I am only busting on yea about trucks....
Ford was big a few years ago selling Big Family Trucks and now the people are complaing about gas prices.Who told them to buy Trucks?
I don't know about the Cobolt,but when I was looking at cars with my friend,we both think the car looked cheap[It was not a SS}
I could not even get into a HHR(I am 6ft3}I am sure you think thats a pretty cool looking car huh?
Ohhhh I do think the Vettes are are well priced,My friend bought 2 2007 Z06s at $90,000 each with Taxes and markups...He wrecked his first one within 600 or 2 wekks of getting the car....
Only thing that I am saying is the the Auto business is in very bad shape....
Just like the airlines United and Delta and Northwest,,,,,But they worked out deals with the Unions and they are doing welll now....Only if GM and Ford could do the same??????JT


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*No point debating with a young kid.

Most people on here are salespeople who's jobs are going away? Where did you pull that from?

Son, before you go running at the mouth with no facts to substantiate your claims, you owe it to yourself to at least fake us salespeople who are losing our jobs in to thinking you know what you are talking about.

If the whole world lived with the values the Amish live by, we'd all be better off.*


----------



## Jekyl n Hyde (Apr 9, 2006)

I know you have had many responses, but I thoughtr I would add my $.02. When I bought my GTO...I looked at GTOs, Mustang GTs and Chargers. To be honest they are all great cars but it came down to the GTO and Mustang GT. I actually liked both but in the end I could not pass up the power of the GTO. The other factor was that I personally would rather have a car that you only see one or two per week instead of one on every corner. After all, I think about 160,000 Mustangs were made last year (maybe more) and less than 15,000 GTOs were made. Just comes down to your preference.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> *Toyota has had trucks in America for a long, long time. Quite successfully too. Granted they are having a hard time with the Tundra, (full size) truck right now. Their smaller trucks have been quite successful. They are everywhere. They run forever, providing the older ones don't rust out. My 88 4Runner is a prime example. 99K and it runs like new.
> 
> There are far more of them than Ford Rangers, and older Dakotas out there. They have their act together on them. The Tundra's are a different story. They should get them straightened out, but I think too much damage on the quality issue has hurt them at least for the near term.
> 
> ...


I'm not opposed to foreign cars. What gets me is all the people that say the American made vehicles are junk. They might have had issues 10-15 years ago, but now there are lots of decent choices for american made vehicles. 

Those same people that put anything with a Ford or GM nameplate also tend to be the same ones that refuse to believe that Toyota makes some really bad cars, or that Honda's have had issues with Transmissions, brakes and power windows and Nissans of late are having issues with electronics and body integrity, plus some oil consumption.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

So GM, Ford, and Chrysler all suck because johnny just does not like them. I hope you don't drive a GTO. What an embarrasement to the car.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

johnnytuinal said:


> LANCASTER, PA is that where all the amish people are lol.
> The problem is I do know what I am talking about,,,most of the people on here are salespeople that don't want to say that they know their jobs are going away...
> Toyota is #1
> GM is #2 (for now}
> ...


I'm not sure where you're from Johnny, but here in Florida, you can get Z06's at sticker all day long if you shop. I've never heard of one selling as high as the 2 your friend bought. 

Lancaster does have a lot of Amish, but just south of Cleveland, Ohio is the highest concentration of Amish anywhere. You haven't eaten till you've visited Yoder's. By the way there is a Yoder's near Tampa. The Amish are great cooks. 

GM isn't number 2 yet. 2007 is projected to be the year, but the growth they are experiencing in China might save them for another year. Toyota is projecting 9.4 million. GM doesn't release projections, but based off last years growth 9.35 is about right.


----------



## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

pickinfights said:


> So GM, Ford, and Chrysler all suck because johnny just does not like them. I hope you don't drive a GTO. What an embarrasement to the car.


He drives a Mustang GT. He was able to get a discount on a Mustang, but couldn't on the GTO.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

Well thats good, that car can't be embarrased any more.


----------



## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

I used to be very pro American; never considered buying a Japanese car. 20+ years of getting screwed by poor quality, problems that popped up just out of warranty, and that was it. 

I went to Japanese cars about 10 years ago. Really like the Nissans, and all my kids have/had 200SX SE-R's. You can't beat that SR20 engine for trouble free service. My beateris a '99 Maxima. 

I bought the Goat because of the perceived build quality, and the fact it was built in Australia, not the U.S. Most of the problems with U.S. cars are the fault of both management and workers. You just can't do things half-ass and not eventually have it bite you in the ass. I believe that the build quality by GM has improved a LOT in the last 2-3 years, but I'm going to watch the service records before I go buy another GM product.

I love this country, and it concerns me greatly that so much manufacturing is going off shores, particularly to China. It's hard to believe we have put given a country so much of our technology and they are one of the last Communist bastioins in the world. God help us if we ever have to fight them. I guess the powers in control figure there would never be a conventional war with China. 

My 2 cents.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> I'm not opposed to foreign cars. What gets me is all the people that say the American made vehicles are junk. They might have had issues 10-15 years ago, but now there are lots of decent choices for american made vehicles.
> 
> Those same people that put anything with a Ford or GM nameplate also tend to be the same ones that refuse to believe that Toyota makes some really bad cars, or that Honda's have had issues with Transmissions, brakes and power windows and Nissans of late are having issues with electronics and body integrity, plus some oil consumption.


*
I didn't reference that American vehicles are junk, I stated that I see a hell of a lot more older Toyota trucks on the road than I do Ford Rangers, or older Dakotas. That doesn't mean they are junk, it tells me the Toyota's have outlasted them. Quality issues on them are not like the ones on the Trudra. Toyota will eventually clean up their act on them, When, I stated is the question. I have had my fair share of Ford, and Dodge trucks too. Dodge is my favorite Pick-up. 

Every car manufacturer has some blunders. Everyone of them is guilty of that at one time or another. IMO the biggest jokes of autos I see out there, are KIA's and Suzuki's, and many Hunday's . They are throw away cars. It's highly unlikely you'll see many of them on the road in 10-12 years. Toyota has made some hideous cars as did Nissan. 

Because of the high quality Toyota was known for many years ago, it pushed American car builders to focus, and emphasize quality which as kept them ahead of the JAP's in quality over recent years. Partnerships with the JAP's were born. They even employed JAP courses on this for their employees to educate them on how to do this. When I worked for Dana I had to take these courses. Dana taught these courses corporate wide. Ford, etc was teaching their employees too. Now we are ahead of them on this. *


----------



## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> *
> I didn't reference that American vehicles are junk, I stated that I see a hell of a lot more older Toyota trucks on the road than I do Ford Rangers, or older Dakotas. That doesn't mean they are junk, it tells me the Toyota's have outlasted them. Quality issues on them are not like the ones on the Trudra. Toyota will eventually clean up their act on them, When, I stated is the question. I have had my fair share of Ford, and Dodge trucks too. Dodge is my favorite Pick-up.
> 
> Every car manufacturer has some blunders. Everyone of them is guilty of that at one time or another. IMO the biggest jokes of autos I see out there, are KIA's and Suzuki's, and many Hunday's . They are throw away cars. It's highly unlikely you'll see many of them on the road in 10-12 years. Toyota has made some hideous cars as did Nissan.
> ...


Here's my experience with Ford trucks

1993 Ford Ranger, 4WD, extended cab. 4.0 liter 6 cylinder. Had to replace both head gaskets and heads due to cracked castings. Service shop I took it to said they had a "lot" of these problems because Ford used green castings. First problem happened just out of warranty; no help from Ford.

1997 Ford F-150, rear window leak that the service shop knew exactly what was wrong; didn't even have to bring the truck in for diagnosis. Rear window screws had been over torqued and cracked the casing. Again, I had babied this truck, kept it inside, and discover until after 36 month, 36K miles. No help from Ford.

Both of these problems are of the type that should never happen, regardless of the miles and length of service. 

I have more GM horror stories as well. 

There's an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!" Well, I've took it up the tailpipe way more than twice on both GM and Ford, so there's no love there.


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

Yep I drive a 06 Stang GT and I did get it at invoice,I might have bought a GTO but the grill didnot do a thing for me..
I am from the New York area and yes there are too many stangs on the road.
When I bought my Stang Gt there where NOT many on the road at the time and now they are everywhere.But you hardly ever see a GTO since they made so few of them....
I had my 2003 Stang gt in the service shop at ford 3 weeks after I had the car.It was making somekinda noise in the Engine area.They fixed it and while I was driving home the noise came back and the dealer had to order more parts for it...Then I had problems with the rear end making Noise and took it to the dealer I bought it from.The service manager said it was my fault and I must have abused the car so they would not fix the rearend unless I wanted to pay $1400-$1500...
Took the 2003 Stang Gt to a dealer in the next town and they fixed it for free
and I asked the sevice manager if it was posible for me to have done the damage to the rearend,and the service manager said it was inposible for me to have done that damage....

Problems with my 2006 Stang Gt is the Gas Tank{But Most Stang Owners have this problem}
Noise that was in the rearend,Dealer fixed it but that problem has happen to many stangs
and now I have had a annoying noise when I turn my stearing wheel....

So I think ford has not changed all that much in making a car built well..

With the Z06s the Price I think was $82,000 and with taxes its around $90,000.All dealers 3 or 4 months ago wanted Over Sticker,I don't know about now?The Z06 is a very nice powerful car,But I hear that the new 2008 
Vettes you will have to take a few leasons in driving before they hand over the keys to yeaaaa....


Also I don't think the cars in the states arre junk,but they don't do a thing for me,The foreign cars also don't do a thing for me...I was just saying that Ford and GM are in very bad shape.Mopar is doing well but Hate those cars and trucks because they look very cheap inside and outside..Maybe the Challenger will look hottttt...
I think they over did the HEMI thing??????
I always thought the stock 440 sixpack was always faster then the Hemi in a 1/4 mile.......I should know I have a few original Mopars that I take turns driving each day lol.......JohnnyT


----------



## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Johnny, would love to see a photograph of your Mustang.


----------



## pickinfights (Oct 3, 2006)

noz34me said:


> Here's my experience with Ford trucks
> 
> 1993 Ford Ranger, 4WD, extended cab. 4.0 liter 6 cylinder. Had to replace both head gaskets and heads due to cracked castings. Service shop I took it to said they had a "lot" of these problems because Ford used green castings. First problem happened just out of warranty; no help from Ford.
> 
> ...


Looks to me like you should have tried a chevy truck and seen how that went.
There is a reason all the tucks that last in my industry a chevrolet.


----------



## johnnytuinal (May 8, 2005)

Will love to put a pic up soon...............JT


----------



## NoToDoD (Jun 27, 2006)

2 things I didn't see mentioned here.... I rented a base Mustang with the GT bodywork a yr ago.

1) trunk space is bigger in 'Stang, but that damn T-shaped opening absolutely sucks. I had trouble fitting a golf bag into the trunk; had to lower it through the opening and then shift it forward. It's a totally stupid, all they had to do was incorporate the taillights into the trunklid and let the entire thing open instead. It makes the backseat passthru feature completely useless. There may be space for 2 fullsize suitcases, but the opening renders it useless.

2) at 80+, felt lots of air getting underneath the car, steering became really light, felt the rear wheels beginning to lift. GTO is rock solid. You may not go this fast (yeah, right), but a big, strong headwind will have the same effect. Don't know if the Mustang GT's bigger wheels and heavier V8 engine would've made a difference, but I would guess the rear would still lift.

06 Quicksilver M6
GMM Ripshifter
30% tint
Evenflo On My Way infant car seat


----------

