# Sticky  '68 GTO resto... Mad Max meets Pro-Tour



## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Yo! 

So this is the beginning. I'm as green as a blade of grass in April when it comes to forums but I wanted to find a place to lay down my experiences and progress with this unique personal project. I'm sure there will be many who will cringe at what i've done but I wanted to make this car my own. I wanted to merge modern tech with old-school muscle and the raw brutality that I find in my definition of a true muscle car. GTO's are arguably the first true muscle car and there are plenty of other's who own "Pony" cars that would beg to differ. I love this car and I appreciate what Delorean was trying to do in the mid-late 60's with this car. He appreciated the style of Eruo cars but wanted to merge it will the large size and power that became the GTO. Maybe I'm wrong there but that's my opinion from what I've read.
I'm going to take that and run with it. Unfortunately my budget is not limitless but i feel I am able to make some good compromises. I would love to have the ability to throw in the absolute top of the line products and make this car everything I have ever dreamed of but I don't and I can't. However, i have made some quality decisions and have been extremely satisfied to date...

Enjoy... Below is what I was starting with...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> Yo!
> 
> So this is the beginning. I'm as green as a blade of grass in April when it comes to forums but I wanted to find a place to lay down my experiences and progress with this unique personal project. I'm sure there will be many who will cringe at what i've done but I wanted to make this car my own. I wanted to merge modern tech with old-school muscle and the raw brutality that I find in my definition of a true muscle car. GTO's are arguably the first true muscle car and there are plenty of other's who own "Pony" cars that would beg to differ. I love this car and I appreciate what Delorean was trying to do in the mid-late 60's with this car. He appreciated the style of Eruo cars but wanted to merge it will the large size and power that became the GTO. Maybe I'm wrong there but that's my opinion from what I've read.
> I'm going to take that and run with it. Unfortunately my budget is not limitless but i feel I am able to make some good compromises. I would love to have the ability to throw in the absolute top of the line products and make this car everything I have ever dreamed of but I don't and I can't. However, i have made some quality decisions and have been extremely satisfied to date...
> ...



No, nobody is going to cringe on this forum as we welcome all aspects of "what we do" to our rides, from 100 point restorations to rat rod style. Most preserve the image of the Pontiac with keeping it Pontiac powered. Some go the LS swap, but I am one who scorns with _sacrilegious_ (gross irreverence toward a hallowed thing) _abomination_ (a feeling of disgust or hatred) as it is a slap to the face of such an iconic automobile, and because it was the Pontiac engine that created the image that all have come to know.

However, I am no purist by any means and fall heavy towards the hot rod camp and understand the LS swap - just don't care for it when there are plenty of Pontiac engines available to build. The saying here is, "its your car and build it the way you want to." I considered doing a "Mad Maxx" version of my '68 Lemans - gutted interior, roof spoiler, removing the rear glass/window shelf/trunk lid and inserting a large round "gas tank," roll bar, truck bolt-on fender flares, zoomie header pipes coming out below the rocker panels, dummy blower set-up, matte black, etc..

Instead going the mid-seventies look based more on a drag racer, 455CI, 5-speed, Ford 9", tunnel ram with dual quads, velocity stacks, zoomie header pipes, one piece fiberglass flip nose, stripped interior, roll bar, jacked up in the rear, 12" wide tires hanging out the wheel well, matte black, etc.. 

So ask all the questions you need and be sure to post pics as the build progresses. It's all about ownership and enjoying your ride. :thumbsup:


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

More power to you, You have to go for it. Keep us in the loop on the build and any problems that you have. I have a 68 Convertible that I am slowly bringing back to original condition. The big thing is to enjoy the process as well as the result. Have fun!!!


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*My first engine build...*



PontiacJim said:


> However, I am no purist by any means and fall heavy towards the hot rod camp and understand the LS swap - just don't care for it when there are plenty of Pontiac engines available to build. The saying here is, "its your car and build it the way you want to." I considered doing a "Mad Maxx" version of my '68 Lemans - gutted interior, roof spoiler, removing the rear glass/window shelf/trunk lid and inserting a large round "gas tank," roll bar, truck bolt-on fender flares, zoomie header pipes coming out below the rocker panels, dummy blower set-up, matte black, etc..
> 
> :thumbsup:



Thanks man. Many pictures to come. I have a deep love for Pontiac as most do who are fortunate enough to sample their awesomeness...

I'm personally on the fence over the LS swap but I totally appreciate it. You couldn't be more right though... There are more than enough Pontiac blocks out there to keep the heart and soul of these beauties true. 

I purchased this car January 2001. I was a senior in high school and, at the time, had a '68 Lemans I wanted to turn into a GTO clone. I purchased a 400 short block and sold the 350 in the Lemans. My best friends dad was selling the GTO for $5k and she was in great shape, I lived in California at the time. I couldn't pass it up. I sold the Lemans, bought my baby and never looked back. It was numbers matching at the time but that wouldn't last... 

In the service I was reading Hot ROd and High Performance Pontiac and anything else I could get me hands on. Hot Rod did an article on a Pontiac 400 dyno monster and I was young and dumb and wanted to copy them. I had to replace the block the GTO came with as the lower P/S corner where the bell housing mounts was completely missing. A huge chunk of casting gone, bell housing had a spiderweb of cracks and the trans had one of the mounting lugs welded back on. I couldn't take a chance on the block having internal cracks after taking a hit so strong to have caused this much external damage. The culprit, I suspect, was a speed bump... There were clamps in the front springs to drop it and spacers in the rear springs to lift it... This was all from some kid who was three owners back... I kept the trans but that's it... fortunately I had a spotless 400 short block in my garage all ready from '69.

This is what I made out of it and sadly in my young naivety... I had to cut a gaping hole in the pristine hood... One of my greatest regrets... This engine build would turn into something great... a great learning experience and an even greater jaw dropping near miss that I recently discovered upon taring the engine down for a much better rebuild, which I am currently in the middle of


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

My first build


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*Foreshadowing...*

Here she is in her current status today... Much more to come on how I got here and where I'm going... The engine paint is being stripped to go black. I thought the Green would pop under the hood of a satin black body but proved to be yet another naive decision. It was chipping badly and was so hard to keep clean and scratch free... No more spray bomb and time to give it a K.I.S.S.

noob question... how do i submit pictures in the body of the text and not as separate attachments?


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

So I built the engine you see above in my first build post and spent good money on good parts. It was my first ever engine build. Speed Pro Pistons, Huge H-beam connecting rods, performer rpm heads with 72cc chambers, punched out 0.040”, huge cam (nearly catastrophically too big and more on this later), bullit proof bell housing, high rise intake, 750 Dominator, centerforce dual friction clutch, March pullies.... etc. about $10k when it was all said and done. 

Broke it in and was scare to death on the first startup. She was an absolute beast. Going 80 on the highway, just slowly stabbing the throttle would brake her loose. Even with good meat on the road, 275/60-15. I was so damn proud. I had no idea what damages were beginning, however or how lucky I was she didn’t grenade on me... 

Originally a vinyl top... the roof was terrible underneath so we wire wheeled best we could, hit it with rust converter and then did something else I would later regret... rolled on a DIY rhino liner. We wanted the vinyl top contrast and it looked awesome. This was back in 2001. Way before the current amazing reproduction roof skin was even a thing. Today that rhino liner is gone but what the words PITA getting off. I built that engine in ‘04 and I don’t think I put more than 2k miles on in until I put her to bed and never touched her again until last year. 

I took a divorce to allow me to actually turn a single wrench on her and for many reasons, I’m glad to be out of that situation. 

Now I will pick up with the beginning of the full resto she is going through.....


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

curtis.smith68 said:


> noob question... how do i submit pictures in the body of the text and not as separate attachments?


N/M Found it....

http://www.gtoforum.com/f10/posting-pictures-5063/


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*In the meantime...*

For kicks...

Here is my Pinterest board with my inspirations and some of my progress pictures

https://pin.it/mei3hd7ruw3jvv


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Don't put yourself down, no shame is allowed here! :nonod: Cars are a learning process and you can only do what you know how to do at that time. Your vision will also change as you change over time. The car will be a great diversion after going through the divorce - done it twice and won't ever get married again. If you have children, include them in your life as much as possible and don't make them choose between parents - as they love both. Took me almost 20 years to rebound from my divorces (the financial aspect) and get back into my '68 Lemans. Then is has taken a number of years to build up the "play money" to do the rebuild the way I want to do it. 

The hot rod primer grey spray bomb can look good when new, but it oxidizes, and is not a sealant like paint is - so it breaks down. First did my '68 Lemans in primer grey just to make it one color and presentable knowing it was going to die off on me. Better to get a matte black/semi-gloss paint or if spray painting, have the local paint shop reduce the gloss by adding a flattening agent. You can ask for a 60% gloss for example. Then you will have a paint like any other that can be washed, cleaned, and assume waxed. When the time comes, I'll have my paint store mix me a few samples at different percentages of gloss, spray a panel, and see what I like. You can also do this with any color. I think some colors actually look better dulled out slightly than a high gloss finish - it can pull out some of the body lines better in my opinion.

The engine looks like a good starting place seeing you have already done it once. Cubes rule and with the complete kits that can up the cubes of a 400CI to 461 or so, it is one of the best bangs for your buck - if you need to go this way due to a change of parts in your engine. Often, many will select a cam that can be too big. Sure, very cool to have gobs of HP on tap that instantly fries tires - even I like that, but if you really want to do some cruising or take in a show you may have to drive a few hours to get to and don't have that truck and trailer to tow it with, you want to make some compromises on the cam. That's where the bigger cubes of a stroker kit can come into play by adding more torque at lower RPM's to replace the radical cam and still get the same end result - a tire shredder. So you have options.

Keep in mind that some of us here do not have an "account" with Pinterest so we cannot fully see all the pics. If you use Pinterest for your build, keep this in mind and share a few pics with us on the forum. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The old cliche... If I knew then, when I first built this engine, what I know now I would certainly have stroked it. I couldn't agree more about bang for your buck. That will have to wait until the next complete engine overhaul. My problem with the cam was a few things. One, I never checked the piston clearance. I thought... well they built this engine with all of these parts and didn't have an issue... why should I... 

So I built an awesome first engine. It idled terribly and always shot a 3' flame out of the carb... I had timing issues not to mention, I built a dyno engine. It was not street friendly at all. Wide open it was bad a$$ but that's about it. Little did I know what the timing culprit was... So fast forward from 2004 to 2016 when i bought a house and decided to finally rip into her and start figuring out how bad they rust was. It wasn't too bad come to find out but I still don't know why i tore into her so deeply knowing well enough that my wife at the time wouldn't let me buy a body bushing kit let alone pay to remediate the rust or fix what i found in the engine.... 

We'll start with the engine...

So I had a nagging oil leak in the oil pan and the rear main so I had to pull the engine to get to them. I also had a small coolant leak around the timing chain cover so i begrudgingly pulled that off, fortunately I pulled it that is... I was running an Edelbrock timing gear set, loved it but not worth the price. The second i pulled the cover the bold securing the gear to the cam fell to the ground and so did my stomach...


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Turns out by inspecting the markings on the bolt head... somehow I installed a metric bolt. Sure it torqued up but obviously it was cross threaded and worked itself out. If I had been using a normal timing chain my engine would have been trashed... Those large pins on the idler gears were actually making contact with the inside of the cover and holding everything in place, the fuel pump cam was too. The large gear key way slot was beaten open pretty good so that slop was where my inconsistent timing issues were coming from. Knowing i had to replace the cam now as the inside was polished smooth where that bolt was banging around, I went ahead and pulled the heads... The discoveries kept coming...

Every piston looked like the attached. 

The exhaust valve was making contact but not much. The pistons are aluminum and quite soft. It was only the sharp edge of the valve relief they were hitting and after pulling the valves and inspecting them, they turned out to be perfect and true. I was so damn lucky... I went ahead and cleaned the pistons up by gently hitting them with a carbide bit. Dishing them slightly on the exhaust side. 

Since I knew this car wasn't going anywhere for a long time, because of a lack of being able to spend... I went full bore and ripped her apart....



That one with the front end completely torn apart is what she looked like when I moved out... Not even a rolling chase... So the house was being sold and I had to act fast to get her rolling again. I said screw it and did what I want for once. I had enough saved up to get her to Stage 2 as Stage 3 suspension was only a pipe dream so I pulled the trigger on upgraded brakes as this is what the original ones looked like...


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

ugly...

I went with an awesome Willwood setup and a Stage 2 suspension kit from BMR and a beefy steering linkage kit from Proforged Steering Rebuild Kit..... I also didn't have time or space to do a full frame off so i cleaned up the front half and re painted...

Degreased, wire brushed and metal etched...








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Primed with Rustoleum's rusty metal red oxide primer








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Painted with the help of my boy. We have a great connection and he loves helping on this project. I don't push him so it never seems like a chore to him. I always let him and encourage him to help as much or as little as he wants








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The finished product...








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Huge difference in the steering components. They are freakin amazing!








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The brakes and my 2" drop spindles by CPP and the stage 2 BMR suspension package with Bilstein shocks and 1" lowering springs... I may have a ride height issue but we'll see. Everything went together very nicely. I have an issue with the bump stop fr the upper A-arm as it doesn't make contact with anything.... I'll have to address this once the care comes back from the body shop...








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Ignore the Christmas colors on the engine... LOL!!!

The sway bar is an absolute beast!!








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This is one of many piles of parts awaiting the arrival of the car. Complete wire harness, radiator and fans, Wilwood MC and on and on.... I also have the rear of the suspension to install from that kit....








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There are many things that will need to wait... First I still need a carb, I'm thinking a 750 Quick Fuel with Annular secondaries.... I also need wheels and tires so between those three I'm looking at another $1700-1900... I want to rebuild the rear end and install disks in the rear as well but I can at least get her running for now as I don't want the engine to sit another year without running. The last time i opened it there was surface rust on the cylinder walls... I also would like to be able to listen to music but luxuries like that will have to wait for sure!!

Stay tuned.... more to come on where the body stands now.... I'm going to the shop tomorrow to deliver the rear window I took out and to take pictures. They are taking care of the last rust spot and will be shooting primer today maybe... I don't want it to sit primed for too long either so I will need to get it ready for final paint which will be a satin black. Not a flat matte black but one that has just a touch of shine also all of the trim will be blacked out including the rear bumper... this is an example of what I'm after...








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I also just picked up a set of valve covers from Butler Performance and let me tell you..... WOW!!!!! They are beautiful and worth every penny... Also I installed their billet valley pan. I'm not sure on it's seal but we'll see.....








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More on the engine specs and components later.....

OPGI has had the steering box I want on back order since March and it looks like I won't get until July.... Ugh...


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

aaaaaannnnddddd..... It looks like Photobucket doesn't like to play for free so I will be editing those posts as soon as I find a site that will allow 3rd party hosting for free... I'm not paying them $400/year to do that


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

So the green is gone on the engine... It would have looked awesome but with the red suspension it looked way too much like Christmas.....

I didn't want to completely tare the block apart again just to paint so I went ahead and masked off the heads best I could because the method I chose to use is dangerous with respect to the aluminum heads. I bought two cans of Easy-Off oven cleaner and went to town. First I tried it out on an inconspicuous spot in the rear of the engine that would be covered by the bell-housing. Since the engine is cold steel i needed to let the stuff soak for a couple hours covered so it didn't dry out too quickly. This stuff worked like a champ! 
You really need to be extra careful using it but if you are, it is worth the effort. The old coating came right off and this stuff will draw out all the grease and oil from the pores of the cast block. I also used an aircraft paint stripper on the timing cover as I didn't want to use this stuff on that cover as it's cast aluminum... 

These are some of the pictures during the stripping process... I'll upload more of the bare block tomorrow night. I also applied te first of three steps of the KBS engine coating system. I used a diluted solution of KBS Clean and let that soak for about 20 min before rinsing off. Tomorrow I will be applying the KBS Rust Blocker which is a metal etch and rust converter to prime the surfaces for the final KBS engine seal coating, black...

After one application of the oven cleaner...








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The process...








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Stay tuned.... The body is coming back from the shop later this week! Glass is going back in now!!!


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Let’s rewind to the body......

There’s nothing like trying to do a full restoration around a divorce and moving twice... so I assembled the front suspension and mounted the engine to make moving the car into storage easier. While living in an apartment and the car was in a self storage unit, wadded up in there nicely, I began my search for a shop. Maybe I could’ve found one more cost effective, maybe I could’ve found one closer to home.... I am in the Syracuse area and I know there are many shops around here. Word of mouth is huge for this part and I don’t know anyone around here. 

I’m originally from California and since I moved around so damn much within NY over the past few years I’ve never had the chance to really get to know many car guys to reference a good shop. I relied on google. I found a few shops here and there until I stumbled upon B&B Automotive in Newark Valley. It’s about two hours from me and in the middle of nowhere. 

I met the owner at my storage unit and got an estimate. The usuals were shot whith my baby. Trunk filler panel, 2/3 of the lower trunk pan, package tray was a little rough but salvageable, a couple rough spots on the fender dog legs, a couple rough spots around the rear wheel wells and richer panel areas and annoyingly the roof.... 

Since my budget isn’t limitless and I want to drive this thing again in my lifetime I decided to only take care of the rott. There are a couple other cosmetic issues but that can wait. The quarters took a hit at some point and they were hammered out but are still bumpy so those could be changed. I’d like to box in the frame but that can wait too. The floors, cowle, firewall and everything else is in excellent shape. The roof was trashed because it was a vinyl top and had gotten really bad inder it. The previous owner wirewheeled it as best he could given there wasn’t anything left in some spots back in ‘99, before the reproduction roof was being made. The he applied a DIY rhino liner to it. Looked cool but it made things so much worse. It absorbed moisture and was horrible getting off....

So B&B Automotive took my car in early December and couldn’t start working on it until mid April. She’s coming home this week!!! First the took some of the rhino liner off the roof to evaluate its condition. There were holes as bid as my fist. 








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So a new roof was in order. 

The rear window ledge was really bad along the bottom and half way up the sides.....








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I also thought the package tray would need to be replaced but it will be covered and only had a few holes. Nothing a little rust inhibitor wouldn’t handle. 








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Stay tuned.... tare down continues to the roof next.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The roof came off and the structure under was in great shape. There was only mild surface rust but it was superficial and not structural at all.








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The then 2/3 of the lower trunk pan came out and the rear window to trunk filler panel cam out...








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The roof went in only a couple days after they took it off... They cleaned up the structure and epoxied it before the roof went back in...








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Shortly after that the filler panel went in and the trunk panels too... The trunk pictures will come later as I don't have them yet... then they assembled the fenders and bumper, which they mounted incorrectly at first but have since fixed and they epoxy primed the whole thing... and the glass went in yesterday. New windshield up front as they broke the original taking it out for the roof...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

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I'm waiting on word for delivery and also asked them to fill in that gaping hole for the antenna mount. 

Much more to come... We're basically all caught up to date at a high level. Later on I'll go deeper into the component specifics in the engine, suspension and others...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Ah, all the "usual"rot spots. So glad reproduction parts are available! :thumbsup: Looks like they are doing so great work.

A few more matte black cars. The first pic is from a T-shirt company. I like it in that I was thinking it might be cool to go with a shiny black on the lower portions and a matte black on the upper portion separated by a brite thin custom strip, ala lime green outer layer, lemon yellow inner layer, & white center - sorta like the Judge colors.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> Ah, all the "usual"rot spots. So glad reproduction parts are available! :thumbsup: Looks like they are doing so great work.
> 
> A few more matte black cars. The first pic is from a T-shirt company. I like it in that I was thinking it might be cool to go with a shiny black on the lower portions and a matte black on the upper portion separated by a brite thin custom strip, ala lime green outer layer, lemon yellow inner layer, & white center - sorta like the Judge colors.


I have a couple of those on my Pinterest board. I think they were from the Punisher car... Great movie! I love the look. That happens to be a bit on the flat side but Thank you! Your idea from the T-shirt company in intriguing. I painted the engine Grabber Green for that reason. I thought the bright green sitting inside all that satin black would totally pop!


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The engine is primed with the KBE Rust Blast zinc phosphate etching primer and I'll be painting it black tonight. Also they reprimed the passenger side fender as there was something under it making even the original paint lift and crack, an acid or brake fluid or something. They also filled in the gaping hole for the old antenna... I'm hoping it will be in my driveway Friday...








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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I love your enthusiasm! Looks like you are going about this in a well thought out manner. Doing things right but keeping in mind that the end goal is to have a car that you'll finish and enjoy. Too many projects linger half finished in the back of garages. It doesn't look like yours will suffer that sad fate. Can't wait to see it in the flat black!

Your engine build is bitter sweet for me. Right now my LeMans has a very tired 400 out of a 73. I had plans to do something about it this year but my daily driver had other plans. This came as a complete surprise since it only has 85,000 miles on the clock but was just out of warranty by time. GMC has 5 years 100,000 and my truck is a 2012.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Thanks Jared. I've been wanting to do this since I bought her back in High School... It's crazy how obsessed I am about this damn car. The hardest part is keeping a level head and focusing on getting her running but not just slap her together. I have to keep in mind what I want to restore now and what I will be able to restore later after she is running. I don't want to have to take certain things apart again if I can fix it now, especially if it involves getting rid of rot or replacing/restoring broken or worn parts... The balance is a struggle but making lists helps tremendously... 

So I got her back last night and tare down continued... That is also a struggle... You can dig and dig and dig into these things and find yourself with nothing but sheet metal.... Knowing when to stop digging is a struggle too... I would love to have a completely brand new top of the line car but I would never finish this thing if I keep thinking that way. Balancing the restoration and making good thought out decisions on what to fix, what to replace, what to upgrade and what to leave alone requires a level head and discipline... 

The end goal is important. Knowing that I will be able to drive her soon keeps me going. Knowing that after she is running I can upgrade things like the driveshaft, rear end, rear disks, better fuel cell/fuel pump combo, halo LED head lights, LED tail lights, Bitchen stereo system.... on and on and on... This will forever be a project. This will forever be a hobby but this will be a hobby I can drive and have fun with as I go... 

SO.... last night she showed up. They did great work on the roof, windows, trunk filler and trunk pans... She still has dings and dents, there is still a little superficial rust on the cabin floors but I can handle a lot of that....








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The bad news.... I had no idea the CPP drop spindles were bare, uncoated steel. So, yes you guessed it.... My new and beautiful spindles are rusty... #@[email protected]#*@$%*(......  Rather than completely disassembling them, i'm going to hit them up with some Ospho and then brush on some epoxy and then a top coat. same with all the hardware for my shiny new steering linkages... all rusty... more Ospho and epoxy on them too. It's all light surface rust so I'm not too pissed... it just makes me mad there weren't any notes from the manufacturer or OPGI to this affect...








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The priorities now are as follows...

-I took the old MC off and i will continue to take everything off the firewall. Then I will clean it, weld shut all the small screw holes; this thing looks like someone hit it with a 12ga from all the sheet metal screws that were punched through it...
-Then I will Ospho all the bare metal on the firewall. After that I will hit it with epoxy primer and use the rest of the KBS engine enamel I have. I thought about doing the same satin black on the firewall but that would be a bare to keep clean with the inevitable grease and grime from the engine... gloss or semigloss is the only way to go if I want to make things easy on myself...
-After that the new firewall forward wire harness goes in from American Autowire
-Then the new MC from Wilwood
-Fabricate new brake lines
-THEN...... the engine can finally go in....

Also!!! I have been working on a custom part no one sells for Pontiac engines. They have them for some Fords, Mopar and a bunch of Chevy's but only a tiny section of this for Pontiac... Check out the pictures and let me know what you think AND if you can guess what they are...... Hint... no more oil leaks due to bowing of thin gauge stamped steel.... I've already had one side made and it fits like a glove!








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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Looks really good. Bad luck on the spindles. If you get it now, it should be just fine. I made the same mistake on the master cylinder on mine when I converted to front disks. Looked like it should have been coated but wasn't. 

You made guessing the parts easy. You left the description on the picture tags otherwise I would have been lost. Good idea!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looking good. :thumbsup: Never had a problem with oil leaks on a pan. But, that may have been because better quality gaskets were available back in my time? Pontiac did have these corner tabs that go at the rear of the pan which often get thrown away or did not come with the year that your car was manufactured - not exactly sure when they began adding these.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*oil pan reinforcements and body bushings....*

Thanks! As an engineer I tend to error on the side of bullet proof and over engineered lol! So i started searching and only found the corner pieces you mentioned Jim. I like them but they aren't enough for me. Here are the pictures for the one side I've already made and as you see, they fit perfectly. I've since had them powder coated black, also this was back when the engine was Grabber Green.....








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No more bowing between bolts, flexing or buckling... 

This weekend I stripped clean the firewall and degreased it. I'll be welding shut the mess of holes and prepping for paint this week. I also began installing the new body bushings yesterday... I had some issues with how the kit identified where the bushings went as what was installed in my car didn't match. Things like where the solid bushings went versus the ones that were bolted in. I think I figured it out but I will be double checking tomorrow when I can get back into it. I'll also upload some pictures of all this tomorrow too. I was moving too fast and forgot to take some. I still have the other side of the car to do. The comparison between old and new bushings is insane. The old ones were crushed so badly, cracked and really soft. These bushings from OPGI.com are awesome and I think they will pay dividends with respect to ride quality.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Old body bushings are gone! because I neither have the time nor the means to do an actual frame off I am making due with what I have. So in the end after figuring things out on one side, I was able to get a system down for the other side.

First I removed the hardware securing the bushings. Surprisingly these things came out really easy and without the need for penetrating oil. After that I found the two center most body braces and spanned a 2x6 across them and put a jack in the center. Then I lifted until the tires were all but off the ground. This gave me enough clearance all the way from front to rear to be able to spray the frame with degreaser, ospho and then epoxy primer. From the pictures below it is clear where a good portion of my body roll was coming from...

The kit was from OPGI and there were a few extra bushings for my application. I have to assume this kit is used in several other applications like the convertibles and/or other makes/models. Rather than using the guide supplied I was forced to simply compare to what was original. I had three choices and one was extremely obvious... the solid bushing. The diagram, sadly, is anything but accurate for my car. It said I needed no solid bushings up front at the bend in the frame just under the wheel well mount/firewall. There was first a solid bushing and then a bolted bushing. the other picture is what I used compared to what was installed originally... 

Additionally the kit had no notes or information on installation. It wouldn't take much to print a few blurbs on the back of the diagram to the effect of proper hardware installation (i.e. tighten till slight bulge is seen in bushing??), lubricant or loctite??, install frame to body bushing such that bushing is properly nested in frame locating hole prior to lowering the body otherwise the bushing will be misaligned and will get pinched... Too easy people... Maybe that's just the engineer in me and I'm asking too much. I left these comments on a review of the kit so hopefully they take it to heart and help out future customers.








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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

So you were able to do this basically with just a floor jack and a 2X4? No issues with the body twisting or anything? I'm sure there are many of us with bad body bushings that have just dealt with the problem (myself included). I was sure that you would need a lift and bracing to swap them out. I have been working on replacing all the suspension bushings because they are/were all bad doing the worst ones first. I would love to replace the body to frame bushings too because I know they are rough at best. Now you have me thinking...

I repeat what I said before, I love your enthusiasm!


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Thanks Jared. I’m so pumped about this thing and always have been. I was nervous lifting it the way I did but I made sure I was firmly on the braces and kept an eye on the body to see if anything looked like it was bowing. It all came up evenly and I actually made sure all bushings were disconnected so I wouldn’t be lifting the added weight of the frame too. It probably also helps that the car is completely gutted. 

So it turns out I was mistaken and OPGI was misleading with the bushing kit. They say it’s for a GTO which is both correct and false. All GTO’s have Big Blocks which means you have to get the supplemental bushing kit. When my car was manufactured they did something unusual and it threw me for a complete loop. In my last post I mentioned there being a solid bushing up front under the firewall. Well putting a solid bushing there left me with no bushings for the rear cross member. Actually the diagram OPGI supplied was correct and my car was built incorrectly. I speculate it was because my car was very early in the production year and they may have made a change or maybe when they built it the guy just ran out of bolt on bushings and threw in a solid one.... either way I need to lift the drivers side again and take the solid bushing I installed in the front and place in on the rear cross member. 

I ordered the supplemental kit and will do these changes when it shows. Honestly the bushings were a breeze to change and one of the easiest and most cost effective upgrades I could have done. Tonight I worked on the firewall. Sadly some of the work I’ve already done in the engine bay is getting messy. Had I had the time way back before the suspension went in I would have done all this first. The Ospho I’m using is nasty but effective. It’s discoloring everything but most of it comes clean with soap and a scouring pad. It’s just added work but my hands were tied and I’m on too much of a time crunch to disassemble the front end again. 

I’m ready to prime and pictures will come tomorrow. If only I would get the primer I ordered. Twice now I was shipped white epoxy primer in a box labeled black.... an annoying bonus is they done accept returns and only refund. So I have enough white epoxy to do and entire car if anyone is interested. I contacted the company directly and voiced my frustrations and they are sending yet another box. This is costing them quite a bit in mistakes as I’m allowed to keep the missabled product.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

So while waiting on the supplemental bushing kit to show up I began tackling the floor pan, dash and prepping the wire harness. First off, next to the body bushings, this complete wire harness kit from AAW is the best and most cost effective upgrade I could have done. Upon removing the old harness i found many shorts and breaks in the insulation. The original was rough coming out and the fuse box was in rough shape. The new kit is extremely comprehensive and so far the only thing I've had to recycle from the old harness is the connector for the ignition as they don't make them for '68. It was in grate shape and the leads came out of it really easy with just the simple insertion of a tiny Flathead screw driver to flatten the little tang on the wire terminal. 








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My boy is all too excited to help and I absolutely love it! He can actually look at the trunk let alone sit in it without needing a tetanus shot lol!








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There are several harnesses in this kit but that is the main harness obviously. It is all quite modular and there are pigtails for just about everything which will make installation a breeze! Most of the work i needed to do was to the rear harness. There is a common lead that runs through all of the running lights and they just supply one extra long brown wire that needed to be cut several times and doubled up to make a daisy chain between all the lights. The only thing that would have made this easier is if I forked out the extra cash for the correct crimping tool. You really need a tool that crimps they way you would crimp on spark plug wire ends. It rolls the terminal around and pinches the insulation and the exposed copper rather than flattening. But I was careful and meticulous in my crimps.








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I also went through the floor pan. It was in really good shape. I was nervous around the accelerator but it was only just worse than surface rust. Only two of the floor drain plugs had any rust on them upon removal. All in all it wasn't bad at all. I removed all of the tar sound deadening and washed and wire brushed the whole thing with degreaser/wax remover and then hit all of the exposed metal with Ospho. Maybe I'll get lucky and get the damn black epoxy I ordered... 








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Also here is the prepped firewall. The zinc residue comes off easily enough so i have a little touch up painting to do and the firewall to paint. I contemplated welding shut the hole for the fan/heater but decided against this. I'll just use the original fan box for now and then buy a delete cover. I don't want to bastardize it too much in the event I want to revert back to stock one day or maybe have heat lol.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*steering box upgrade*

After countless hours or research and because my budget has a limit, I've landed on sending my steering box out to PowerSteering.com to have them rebuild it as a 12.7:1. Currently it leaks and is terribly unfriendly and unsafe to drive as they are in their original form. I have read so many ways to get a tight and modern feel but this seems to be the most cost effective and simplest way. I can use my current hoses and current aftermarket pump and I know I won't have any fitup issues as I will get the same core back. I really wanted to go with something top shelf but as I said... by current budget can't handle it. This is something that can be upgraded in the future if I'm not happy with the upgrade from these guys but no matter what, my box needs a rebuild at the least so I might as well go with a tighter ratio making this thing much safer to drive.

I'll post on my experience with them and give a review to the outcome once I finally get this thing running.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> After countless hours or research and because my budget has a limit, I've landed on sending my steering box out to PowerSteering.com to have them rebuild it as a 12.7:1. Currently it leaks and is terribly unfriendly and unsafe to drive as they are in their original form. I have read so many ways to get a tight and modern feel but this seems to be the most cost effective and simplest way. I can use my current hoses and current aftermarket pump and I know I won't have any fitup issues as I will get the same core back. I really wanted to go with something top shelf but as I said... by current budget can't handle it. This is something that can be upgraded in the future if I'm not happy with the upgrade from these guys but no matter what, my box needs a rebuild at the least so I might as well go with a tighter ratio making this thing much safer to drive.
> 
> I'll post on my experience with them and give a review to the outcome once I finally get this thing running.


One of the upgrades is to add a steering box from a 1992 1/2 - 1998 Grand Cherokee ($40 at Pull-A-Part) which has a quick steering ratio. It bolts right up to the frame and your '68 steering arm fits right on to work with the steering linkage. You will need the correct rag joint/steering coupler to mate your '68 column to the later box. This is available at Advance Auto as a Lares Steering Coupler and believe it was Lares 202 as they also offer others - just match the '68 splines on one end and then the Jeep splines on the other. The box uses metric o-ring fittings, but I snagged the return with the box which is no big deal to connect anyway, and I will have my local hydraulics shop fab me up a high-pressure hose with the SAE end for my pump and the metric for the box - although you can also use an adapter.

Several write-ups on the internet on doing this. Like all things used, you may get a worn box, but with all the years available and the selection in my local yard, I got one that seemed pretty tight. Hopefully it will be good and if not, then I can always have it rebuilt.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Moving right along, looks good. Did you keep the original circuit board for the dash or go replacement? AAW is not inexpensive, but in reading many reviews, seems to be the best way to go as compared to other offerings IF going OEM and wanted a plug & play harness. A few guys like the Painless brand although they said you have to know & like making your own wiring, but only because they were modifying their wiring harnesses and felt the Painless brand worked better for them in that respect. 

On my '68 I am not using the heater either. I am going to fill it in. Then I want to add a "smooth" panel firewall to clean it up. I've got a few ideas that should work and look good. My buddy has a '71 Camaro RS SS restomod that he did this with and it looks great. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> Moving right along, looks good. Did you keep the original circuit board for the dash or go replacement? AAW is not inexpensive, but in reading many reviews, seems to be the best way to go as compared to other offerings IF going OEM and wanted a plug & play harness. A few guys like the Painless brand although they said you have to know & like making your own wiring, but only because they were modifying their wiring harnesses and felt the Painless brand worked better for them in that respect.
> 
> On my '68 I am not using the heater either. I am going to fill it in. Then I want to add a "smooth" panel firewall to clean it up. I've got a few ideas that should work and look good. My buddy has a '71 Camaro RS SS restomod that he did this with and it looks great. :thumbsup:



Thanks Jim! I have read about the Grand Cherokee swap but the way you make it sound makes it seem quite easy and cost effective. For that money it’s worth the gamble. 

I am keeping the original circuit card. That harness was costly and I’m not intimidated by a little wire harness fabrication but I just heard so mane good things about AAW I couldn’t pass them. All of the connections are correct and a lot of my original connectors were brittle and cracked which was a big motivation. Simply put, you are not only paying for their quality - which is second to none - but also the convenience of having everything properly terminated with factory style ends. I certainly am happy with this purchase. 

I’m still on the fence about blocking off the heater hole... the only thing I would use the original cover for is as a cover and to maybe hook up the fan but no heat. I still might fork out the $85 for a block off plate or attempt to fabricate my own using the original one as a template. Time is on my side here :grin2: I really like the clean firewall look.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> One of the upgrades is to add a steering box from a 1992 1/2 - 1998 Grand Cherokee ($40 at Pull-A-Part) which has a quick steering ratio. It bolts right up to the frame and your '68 steering arm fits right on to work with the steering linkage. You will need the correct rag joint/steering coupler to mate your '68 column to the later box. This is available at Advance Auto as a Lares Steering Coupler and believe it was Lares 202 as they also offer others - just match the '68 splines on one end and then the Jeep splines on the other. The box uses metric o-ring fittings, but I snagged the return with the box which is no big deal to connect anyway, and I will have my local hydraulics shop fab me up a high-pressure hose with the SAE end for my pump and the metric for the box - although you can also use an adapter.
> 
> Several write-ups on the internet on doing this. Like all things used, you may get a worn box, but with all the years available and the selection in my local yard, I got one that seemed pretty tight. Hopefully it will be good and if not, then I can always have it rebuilt.


Thanks again Jim for nudging me in this direction. I did some more reading on this and think it's definitely worth my while to give it a shot. So 20 minutes at a yard and only $25 later I am now the proud owner of a fairly nice looking steering box out of a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee.








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So I think the most challenging part (relatively that is) will be the hoses. I think i could have this thing cleaned up and hooked up for just a few dollars more. Not too shabby. And if it doesn't work out or I still want to get my original box upgraded then I can and won't be out much at all. I'm really excited about this little experiment. 

Now I, like many others before me that have done this swap, will document my process. I've read about using a used rag joint off of a late 80's chevy truck but it's a rag joint... not expensive new if you know where to look. Even the one Jim listed, which is the correct one btw thanks again, is $16 at Rockauto... spend a little for piece of mind. 

I've seen many ways of tackling the hoses. One way is to cut off the retaining nut on the pump side and install the retaining nut from my current hose and simply flare the line. This wouldn't cost me anything. Another way is, like what Jim said, to have a local shop modify the hose on the box or make me a new one all together. Or i get the adapter from Lee and use my stock hose. All of these options are simple and cost effective. The pitman arm will be fun... I don't have the means of pulling it but I'm sure I can find a garage that will do it for me and install my pitman arm for a few bucks... Here goes nothing. :grin2:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Nice score, and cheap. Lee retired and you can no longer get the bushing for the hose adapt. I recall searching and there is an adapter fitting, but I felt the adapter fitting might only lead to a future leak. So the new high pressure hose seemed to me to be the best and quickest option. They are not too expensive and the shop near my work will make them up while you wait.

The Chevy truck rag joint is an error. I read the same thing. There are different splines and diameter shafts for the Jeep. I think the Chevy one may have been for a non-power box or even a 4-wheel drive (?). The Lars coupler has numbers of 200, 201, and 202. I got the one recommended as the Chevy piece and it was not a match at all and could not figure out why. Did more research and got the correct one and it slipped right on the power steering shaft with no effort. I have not coupled it to my steering column as it is still out, but I recall reading that you may have to loosen the column to slide it just a little to get it to bolt together. Also check the pin clearance on the joint - can't recall if you may have to open the hole up slightly where the pin rides. All minor tweaks in my book and nothing that can't be tackled.

I have a puller, so I was able to swap my steering arm out. Just have to torque it down when I do my final check/inspect of my front end. :thumbsup:

Just a few pics as my car sits now - under cover while other projects take their course.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Here are the years and the Alpha Letter Codes (found on a small sticker on the box when you clean it up) for the Jeep Grand Cherokee steering boxes:

YEAR ALPHA CODE APPLICATION GEAR RATIO EFFORT T-BAR SIZE TRAVEL

1992.5 -1993 AL or BT Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195Dia 43deg 45min

1994 AL, BT, or PD Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195Dia 43deg 45min

1995 JH Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195Dia 43deg 45min

1996 KD Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195Dia 43deg 45min

1997-98 WK or BT Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195Dia 43deg 45min


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> Nice score, and cheap. Lee retired and you can no longer get the bushing for the hose adapt. I recall searching and there is an adapter fitting, but I felt the adapter fitting might only lead to a future leak. So the new high pressure hose seemed to me to be the best and quickest option. They are not too expensive and the shop near my work will make them up while you wait.
> 
> The Chevy truck rag joint is an error. I read the same thing. There are different splines and diameter shafts for the Jeep. I think the Chevy one may have been for a non-power box or even a 4-wheel drive (?). The Lars coupler has numbers of 200, 201, and 202. I got the one recommended as the Chevy piece and it was not a match at all and could not figure out why. Did more research and got the correct one and it slipped right on the power steering shaft with no effort. I have not coupled it to my steering column as it is still out, but I recall reading that you may have to loosen the column to slide it just a little to get it to bolt together. Also check the pin clearance on the joint - can't recall if you may have to open the hole up slightly where the pin rides. All minor tweaks in my book and nothing that can't be tackled.
> 
> ...


Looks good Jim!! Nothing like fresh paint and new parts... 

So I called around and a local hydraulics shop will make me a hose if they can get the right fittings which I don't see an issue there. I'll get the rag joint you specified earlier as I read on it and it seems like a winner...

More developments...

So with the brakes. I received my flex line kit and mentioned they won't mount to my original bracket because of the difference in thickness and shape...








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How other's haven't had this issue is beyond me... maybe no one bitches about it on the reviews of parts... Maybe no one has installed them on a GTO... I have no idea. Summit says they will fit a stock Firebird bracket... So I have some simple brackets from Russell and they should work... I was going to make some but these were only a couple bucks. 








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I started playing with layouts for the new tubes while I wait to paint. I was using 0.041" safety wire from my days in aviation fixing Black Hawks... The stuff works great for determining tube cut length and is rigid enough to make a bend template but it is difficult to work with for the bend template as it's easy to bend and annoying to get straight enough to loose all of the phantom bends from being on the spool...

It's going to look really good with that Wilwood M/C...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Brake line fabrication begins. It's been too cold this week to paint so am keeping busy with what ever I can while I wait. I started making my first brake lines... 

The material I have decided to go with is one that is good for a beginner like myself but is also not going to corrode. I didn't want to fork out the cash for a quality flaring tool for stainless steel lines so I'm using 3/16 NICKEL/COPPER tubing. I have read mostly good things about this material. It is quite soft and I am curious how it will hold up to the pressures of hard braking but I have yet to read a review about this material with respect to rupture and/or catastrophic failure. It can be quite pricey but I managed to find a spool with excellent reviews for around the same price as standard low carbon steel lines. It it doesn't work out they at least I will have perfect templates made that I can use with staleness steel tubing in the future. The inline flaring tool I am using is awesome but will not work for stainless.

I used the safety wire trick again and it worked perfectly this time, MIG welding wire might work really well too...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Heater delete plate came in. Excellent quality! Everything matches up. The one issue is the extruded lip on the two large holes on the firewall. They protrude so much i will either need to create a rather thick gasket or simply grind it down. I think I'm going to grind it down but leave a slight lip and use a good layer of body sealer. This came in just in time for paint which will happen soon. I think I might mount my oil filter to this plate.

This plate is offered on a few sites and comes from Detroit Speed. I found it on ebay for $85 with free shipping. If I had enough to order from OPGI to have gotten free shipping then I would have ordered it from them...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

What an epic weekend. Major progress! So I started the weekend by prepping for paint. Laborious and tedious but must be done. I had to remove the frond brakes to fully get to the new and rusting spindles... They came right apart and later went back together like a dream. Wilwood brakes certainly are bad ass! After prep was done I decided to get painting! I did it right in my driveway. There was no wind and no bugs. It was perfect. I mixed up all the black primer I had and shot the door jambs, inside door skins, window ledges, inside the trunk door frame, firewall, radiator core support and anything I could find that was prepped with Ospho and anything I saw that was beige. I ran out before I got to the floor pan so I did that white as I have plenty of it thanks to TCP's mistake. 








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Once that flashed I got the rest of the engine paint in the gun and shot the firewall, upper radiator support and the heater delete plate. It came out great!








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That took up most of my day on Saturday Including some more prep work on the engine.

The big event took place Sunday. I completed the front brake lines and got the engine ready, did one last photo shoot of the engine on the stand and then shoe horned the beast in there... P.S. Hooker headers are the devil! 








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If you are going to do headers, those solid copper gaskets are the ONLY way to go. I have had every type of gasket installed on them and those are the best by a long shot. Also, because Hooker Headers are so terrible, they are one of the main reasons for changing the master cylinder. The headers on the passenger side all but touch the frame. They hang really low, about an inch and a half under the cross member and I've scrapped them many many many times... On the drivers side they were literally resting on the stock proportioning valve that is mounted on the inside frame near the body bushings. I had many concerns about this but at the time I originally installed them many years ago I had to just live with it. I was mostly concerned with the brake fluid boiling. This is no longer a concern as I have re routed all the brake lines as far away from the headers as I could get. The only way to install them is having them in place and lowering the engine onto them. Since everything was already all torn apart i removed the steering column to give me more access to the drivers side headers as they are the absolute worst!!! Having the wheels and wheel wells out was a huge bonus too.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

So I have a little cleaning to do on the transmission cross member so I figured I'd get my rear end out and clean that at the same time. I needed to pull it anyway so I can get the rest of my BMR suspension package installed. 

It was so easy coming out. Brake line, e-brake clips, a couple bolts and out she came. The coils were a breeze. I jacked up one side to unload the other, unbolted the shock and the coil fell to the ground. Then i unbolted the other shock without jacking up the axle again and the other coil fell to the ground. I have new upper rear coil retainer bushings on the way and in the mean time I'll be scrubbing. The gasket on the rear cover will need to be changed for now too as it is suddenly leaking. In the future I will tare down the rear end and upgrade it and the rear brakes. But for now, just clean and paint.

Also in these pictures you can see how low my headers sit... I will be posting a detailed post on how I install them and the special tools I had to make in the past just for these. It makes it a lot easier and almost tolerable... But again... Hooker headers are the devil. I've heard Doug's are "better" but that is a relative term and anything is better. I am convinced no one who makes reasonably priced headers has actually developed them with an actual car in front of them because there is so much room where they COULD have routed the primaries to avoid making contact with things like the frame and the brake distribution block but they are all garbage... I would love to be proven wrong so I welcome it.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Here is a shot of the heater delete plate installed. I ended up using my old ARP oil pan bolts to secure it. I think it looks sharp. I installed it with Transtar 4167 Ultra Flex Black Seam Sealer which starts to skin over really fast. It's a great product but you need to work quick with it. I'm really happy I went this rout with the heater delete plate. 








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I'm still debating on where to mount the oil filter but this plate is looking more and more appealing. I'm using a remote oil filter because of the headers. You can get a standard oil filter in but even getting it hand tight is a chore and removing them requires the use of a hammer and punch because there is no getting any tools on them no matter how hard I've tried. I don't like the relocation kits that use the stock filter mount because there is still interference with the headers so I bought the engine block adapter from Butler performance. It is just a solid billet aluminum plate with two 1/2" NPT holes for supply and return but is a perfect fit and really clean looking. The other end is the universal filter mount from Moroso.

If you look closely you can see the adapter plate mounted to the block in the below picture.








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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

While you have that rear out, I highly suggest you add the UMI upper & lower control arm braces to add a little strength to the frame & control arm mounts with any HP engine. 1968-1972 GM A-Body Control Arm Reinforcements/Frame Braces [4028] - $129.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.

Ditch the air shocks. Air shocks used to jack up the car will put additional stress on the upper shock mounts which are already a bit weak for such purposes. Get the correct coils if you want to raise the rear a few inches. If I am thinking correctly, the lower control arm brackets have 2 holes and you can move your shock to the upper hole if you get the taller rear coils.

Raising the rear can also compound wheel hop on heavy acceleration - if you should experience this. That's where you can either add the "no hop" bars on the rear end's center section to raise the upper control arms and correct the geometry (like these, https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sale-Lakewood-GM-A-Body-No-Hop-Traction-Bars,18980.html ) or if you drop your car, these are listed for stock or lowered height and go on the lower control arm brackets, 1964 - 1972 GM A-Body Rear Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets- Weld In [4010] - $79.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.

There are other brands available on the above, I just listed these for examples. I do have and have installed the UMI control arm braces - along with a bunch of other rear suspension mods including the Ford 9" rear end.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> While you have that rear out, I highly suggest you add the UMI upper & lower control arm braces to add a little strength to the frame & control arm mounts with any HP engine. 1968-1972 GM A-Body Control Arm Reinforcements/Frame Braces [4028] - $129.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.
> 
> Ditch the air shocks. Air shocks used to jack up the car will put additional stress on the upper shock mounts which are already a bit weak for such purposes. Get the correct coils if you want to raise the rear a few inches. If I am thinking correctly, the lower control arm brackets have 2 holes and you can move your shock to the upper hole if you get the taller rear coils.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info JIm! I had a lot of the same thoughts on the rear suspension. I hate the air shocks. I’m interested in lowering and stiffening. I want this thing to take a corner and be able to send power to the road for sure. I’m not installing UMI braces but BMR’s they have a very similar product. This is the setup I went with and what’s in the box in one of my pictures. 

HPP012 - Handling Performance Package (Level 2) | 1964 - 1972 A-Body | Handling Performance Packages | BMR Suspension - High Performance Suspension & Chassis

I really would love to upgrade the rear end but that is going to be a future project. For now I feel the suspension upgrades will pay dividends. Simply having a rear sway bar will do wonders not to mention lowering the rear an inch, Bilstine shocks and the tubular controller arms.

Also, I did buy those exact anti-hop bars by Lakewood. However, my dad has them in his storage unit in Texas... so I will probably have to install them once he gets to unloading and unpacking lol.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

one step forward...... you know the rest.

So I was ready to get the trans back in this weekend and my boy was all excited to help when what did I find... I don;t know how I missed this before when I looked over everything so this didn't happen. The retaining spring on my clutch fork was missing an ear. No wonder my old throw-out bearing was so trashed... I couldn't figure it out for the life of me and knew I had meticulously installed it before. So now I'm waiting for the replacement but in the mean time I started getting the rear cleaned up.








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I learned a really handy trick for getting the old rubber bushings out. It didn't work as well with the upper control arm bushings in the rear end due to the large heat sink of solid cast steel but it still got the job done. It is a messy but effective way to remove the bushings without the need of any special tools. All you need is a torch, hammer and a chisel. for this stuborn one i also needed a drift. This worked out great on the front control arms back when I thought I was going to reuse the original arms but install new bushings. First you heat up the larger end with the torch until you see the rubber expand and start oozing out from inside. Then you work your way back to the small end and before you know it, pressure will build up inside and all the rubber in contact with the sleeve will have melted and it will litteraly pop out. 

One word of caution though... Once the rubber melts it will never re-solidify and is EXTREMELY messy! Be prepared to catch it on cardboard or something. The stuff is nasty to clean off your skin and or carpets.... :grin2: it will clean up with a solvent though. 

Once the rubber is out then simply hit the sleeve with a punch or chisel until it folds up and you can get some pliers on it and it will slide right out.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*Installation of Hooker Headers on a '68 GTO*

As promised here is my rundown. So I've had these headers in and out maybe 4 times and have finally become quite proficient at installing them. If you are planning on installing them on a GTO and not make any modifications, you are in for extreme disappointment. They will not go in. Period. Reason? First they will rest on your brake proportioning valve located in the inside of the frame. This is bad for so many reasons. One being heat transfer and boiling brake fluid. Not a good thing. 








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Secondly they are only about 1/8" or less from contacting the passenger side frame. This is it's installed state WITHOUT the engine running let alone rotational torque. Because of this I installed solid engine mounts and relocated and rerouted nearly all of my brake lines.








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Oh, I almost forgot. They hang a good 1.5-1.75" below the cross member. So now you have a new low point to scrape on speed bumps and driveways...








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If you are still hard up to install these quality pieces of under designed and under engineered lumps of poo then read on... :grin2: :nerd:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-4201hkr/overview/year/1968/make/pontiac/model/gto

Lets assume you went through the trouble of making all of the necessary alterations to get these babies wadded up in your engine bay... The passenger side is a piece of cake. Ultimately the hardware i ended up with, after trying everything under the sun are a stud and 12 point nus setup. 

I believe this is the set
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1403

However! There are 3 places you HAVE to use a 6 point nut and one additional place where it would be easier (inside #2 cylinder). The three places are the #6 , #5 and inside #7 cylinders. Inside #1 cylinder might be a good idea too but I managed to use a shaved crow's foot in there. 

The best way to get them in place is during engine installation... Have the headers laying in the engine compartment in the general location and zip-tie them to the A-arms.








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Otherwise... try raising the engine and bring them in from under the car. Going in from the top or installing them installed will never happen, with the body on the car that is. The passenger side can be bolted up with the engine mounts mated but not the drivers side. On the passenger's side, The nuts on the #2 and #6 cylinders will need to slowly be threaded up as the headers and brought up into place together. I installed the outside #8 and outside #2 studs initially and then slide the solid copper gasket in place using the slots in the gasket. This is the only gasket to use with these headers... EVER!

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sce-e28286








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Once those studs are in, start getting the worst studs in and then the nuts as mentioned above. As far as tools... I took a combo wrench and cut it to length. Then I shaved as much off as I could while still having enough meat left for me to apply a good amount or torque. This is a good idea to do with the leftover boxed end or a crow's foot in my case...








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The driver's side.... Well the easiest way... Remove the inner wheel well, steering shaft (or just pull the whole column, much easier), clutch linkages and everything else in the vicinity... The engine will need to be raised up about an inch off the mount. Anymore and the header will hit the frame, any less and you aren't going anywhere... you have to start with the key-way on the #5 cylinder. get the stud in there and nowhere else. Install the nut only just and have the gasket in too. use the key-way and install the header on the stud. Now start installing all the other studs and get nuts on the #1 and #7 studs. Begin pulling the header in place using these nuts. This is where things get tricky and depend on your physical composition..... You have to have long, flexible and skinny arms. If you don't... find someone who does. To get to the #5 cylinder nut you have to reach completely under the header and slide your arm up between the block And the header. You will never turn the wrench otherwise.... unless you torch the wrench and bend it "L" shaped, which is an option... but the tightening of that nut can only take place in this space. Also the starter should be out. You'll get about a 1/4 turn a shot and if you made your tool correctly you should be good to go. This is where you will get a leak, for sure. 








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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

*2 points to note.* Make sure you get the correct PONTIAC clutch fork. There is a "generic" version that says it fits GM- Pontiac, Chevelle, etc. WRONG! The angles on the fork are nor correct, AND the fork opening where you slide the throw-out bearing onto (where your spring is broke) is too large and will allow the fork to slide over the throw-out bearing as it operates on the transmission collar. It can slip off and go past the fork opening, get under the lip on the throw-out bearing and when you depress the clutch pedal, bust off a chunk of the lip & send it into your pressure plate/clutch disc and wipe it out - guess how I know? Had to replace the factory bellhousing pivot ball with the longer & adjustable pivot ball to get the "generic" clutch fork to work properly as it is not a linkage adjustment problem, but a fulcrum problem.

Here is a post on this with a picture of what I am talking about. The fork advertised by the Pontiac parts people is the correct one IF you didn't already order one from them. I used the OPGI which is like original. https://www.gtoforum.com/f12/what-would-cause-throw-out-bearing-damage-81369/

Second point is the use of solid engine mounts. Sounds cool and may be good for racers, but keep in mind that an engine with a lot of HP & TQ is now trying hard to pull the bolts out of the cast iron block - especially if you have a rubber mounted transmission. All the engine vibration/sound will now go through the frame/car body and can add to interior noise. And, keep in mind that the frame will flex, adding more pressure to those bolts/block. If you are going to go with solid mounts, get a front engine plate http://jbp-pontiac.com/images/Fastners/frontmotorplate1_large Pontiac.jpg & add a solid strap that further bolts down the engine at the back to the frame so it does not twist (or a mid-engine plate mount which would be the correct way to go - Chassis & Suspension - AllPontiac Mid Motor Plate .187 Laser Cut ). But now you have to go with a solid trans mount so all the twisting force isn't applied along the trans case and cracks/breaks at the mounting point.

For me, I want some flex as the engine torques over so that it absorb some of the energy and provides some cushion at the engine bolts so my block does not get damaged or begins to create stress cracks leading to bigger and better destruction. Rubber/polyurethane mounting will also lesson engine noise/vibration through the car and into the interior.

With that, add a "limiter" either old school with a chain from the frame to some place on the front of the engine or a steel cable. Mopar engines used a rubber bumper at the end of a steel bracket that pulled up against the frame rail on the drivers side. I installed a factory piece on my brother's 1973 Satellite/360CI from a donor car that bolted to a stud on the passenger side exhaust manifold that looked like a steel bracket with the rubber bumper which set just above the frame rail and would limit the amount of engine roll - so just another idea.

Just not a fan of solid engine mounting for street cars - my opinion of course.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Thanks again Jim for all of your informed input and opinions. I greatly appreciate them and will consider the front plate for sure while I still have the ability of installing one. I don't necessarily like the idea of using solid mounts but it is what I have for now in order to make these headers work without causing damage to them or my frame. 

With that in mind I'm pausing on the engine compartment for the time and focusing on everything else. Over the weekend I cleaned the rear end and the frame. I applied POR-15 to the rear end, trans cross member, and frame. I did some inspecting and everything looks really good so I proceeded with installing the rear and the rest of my BMR Level 2 suspension kit.








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Everything went in well and the only gripe I have is with the rear sway bar and how low in hangs from the rear end. because of the way this specific swaybar mounts it doesn't call for support bushings to be installed on the rear end but I am thinking about conversing with BMR to determine if they would be beneficial to install anyway. I will be installing the Lakewood Anti-Hop bars once I get them back from my pop's storage.








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In the mean time I'm moving on to electrical and will be making progression there in the coming days. I am really impressed and happy with the American Autowire kit. It has been perfect so far and I love the added plug they incorporated for Batt and Ignition-on accessories. This will help with my electric fan, water pump and other future additions. There is also a built in circuit for an electric fuel pump which helps as well.

To Jim's point about the clutch fork. I took measurements and did a detailed side by side comparison with the original I had and found that it is a perfect match. It only means it matches perfectly to what was in there before and doesn't guarantee what I had in before was correct but I feel confident after installing the fork and the transmission and taking measurements everything is correct. Thank you again for the heads up Jim!


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Its been a while but progress has been made. I've been mostly working on wiring. Again I can't sing the praises of American Autowire enough. That harness was worth every cent. One simple item it included which helped immensely was a 12V ignition lead specifically for triggering an electric fan relay and was bundled in the front headlight harness so it was plenty long enough. I routed it up front behind the bumper with the headlight harness along with a battery power lead to provide main power to the fans. There are a lot of little bonuses in this kit. They also included many provisions for going aftermarket gauges to include electric speedometer connections in the main firewall connector. I'm not using one but will be keeping it in mind should I ever change my mind.

So the headlight harness has all been terminated, wrapped and routed. I finally got the routing and layout down that I'm happy with for the engine harness and began terminating those ends. All that's left is to wrap that harness and secure it with clamps. I found an original spoiler so I can put my repo one to the side for a spare. It was a steal and in excellent shape. Just needs to be painted.

The dash harness has been terminated and only needs to be tucked away.

I also put in the rubber motor mounts and I'll see how badly the engine flexes once I get her running. I still feel the engine is going to flex too much and the headers are going to be burying themselves in the frame. With those installed I moved forward installing all of my old accessories. 150A Power-master alternator, power steering pump and idler pulley. I had already bought a March serpentine pulley system back in '04 when I first built the engine and it was in great shape. 








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Some progress before and after fun...







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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

You need to look close as compared to my last pictures but the headlight harness is all tucked away here and staged up front waiting to be connected and to have the valance installed. Thanks to the extra length in the harness I was able to route it in a way that completely conceals it. There were a lot of the additional loose female connectors in this new harness and steeling some of the old male plastic connectors from my original harness I was able to make all of my added electrical components - fan, water pump, fuel pump, and a couple well placed and hidden kill switches - look to have factory connections. This week I will finish terminating the new engine harness, wrap it and install clamps to hide it up along the top of the firewall. After this is all done I will get into the small remaining parts and pieces like clutch linkages, shifter, accelerator pedal, oil lines and fuel lines...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Progress continues. I've been continuing with more detail work on the wire harness and making every effort in concealing it.








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I bled the master cylinder, which was easy but too way longer that I had expected. Last night I got a line on a hood off of a '70 at what I feel is a great price at $200. I still need to see it in the flesh and check for bowing but worst case, if it's absolutely not usable, I can cut out the section my hood is missing and I can fix my hood. It appears to be in really good structural shape though, just paint issues and a little rust. Unfortunately it has a hole for a hood tack so I will need to evaluate my choices there and make a decision on whether or not to install one for aesthetics or fill it. 

So rather than bastardizing my original rear bumper, that is in good shape aside from some chrome issues, I was given a brand new rear bumper when I bought the goat. To date it has never been installed. I made the choice to play with my idea of completely blacking out the car and shot it with epoxy primer. I think it looks really good they way it turned out. The spoiler is a bit much as it's still Carousel Orange from the '69 it came off of and I still need to shoot it but the matching bumper really adds a depth of character I was after and I don't regret it at all. It was quite labor intensive, however, as I had to scuff the whole bumper in order for it to take the paint but the effort was definitely worth my while...

A word on the new rear bumpers on the marker..... the upper-outside most corners are about 1/2" wide on each side and it is noticeable how much they stick out. Otherwise, they follow the trunk door contours really well and I am quite happy with it.








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The last major component is FINALLY on order - the long awaited carb...- and I am confident I will have the engine ready for break-in within a couple weeks. I researched to death the route I wanted to go. I had been set on Quick Fuel and couldn't decide between the Q-series or SS series 750. Both Annular boosters and identical in nearly every way with the exception of the electric choke. The Q-series has no choke and they charge $150 more for this... That is about the only difference I could find between the Q and SS. So my new harness was already equipped to support the electric choke and though I was set on not needing a choke, I couldn't justify that cost. I went with the SS-750-AN CFM and have heard nothing but great things about it.








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Remaining work till startup.... have my steering hose made and I need to finish testing circuits, install the shifter, clutch pedal and adjust, accelerator pedal, fuel supply line, secure fuel cell and battery, make or purchase radiator overflow, prime oil pump and set initial timing/install correct advance spring/stop bushing, fluids... A lot of details and minor work to complete... I am so amped to get the engine running again. I'm so close I can taste it... It's been too long. It won't be road worthy for a while but just running the engine will feel like a huge accomplishment... Next year, Syracuse Nationals for sure!


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*Need advice on this one... Stuck throwout bearing?*

I made great progress this weekend with the electrical and will talk to that in a bit.... I wanted to get my clutch pedal installed and shifter installed this weekend to make sure everything is good there... well I bent the clutch fork push rod (adjustable link). I suspect the throw-out bearing will not slide on the transmission input shaft but I can't be certain. Because of my bell housing the only way to see what's going on is to remove the transmission. I wanted to float the issue out there before I do this to maybe get an idea on what to look for. 

So I installed my Z-bar and the rest of the linkages. The throw-out bearing is new from what I had before but is the same size, the clutch fork is also new but dimensionally identical to what I had installed before also and I never had this issue before. I went to push in the clutch pedal and nothing... a brick wall... I got under to feel around and got out the mirrors to see if I could see anything but there is no inspecting inside my bellhousing. So I got back in the seat and gave it a good push and that's when I bent the threaded portion of pushrod. The other part is good and new so I will take the threaded part out of my old link as that part is good but I'm at a loss... I was so meticulous at the installation of everything as I did not wand to have to remove the tranny again... Any advice would be much appreciated. 

I may post this as a new thread because I've searched and searched and haven't found an issue like this, maybe I'm missing something really simple. Occam's razor...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Does the clutch linkage/pedal work without binding with the pushrod removed from the clutch fork?

Can you move the clutch fork around by hand or is it bound up? It should move forward and back within the limits of the casing hole that it goes through.

Clutch fork might not be hooked onto the pivot ball?

New pressure plate & clutch disc? Depending on type of pressure plate, some have a small block that has to be removed from the springs. Not sure which type however.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

With the clutch fork push rod removed everything moves freely.

The clutch fork wobbles freely and I can get it to sort of wiggle against the pivot ball but when you push it against the pivot ball the throwout bearing seems to be holding it in place...

The passage hole for the clutch fork is just large enough to use a mirror to see that it is engaged with the pivot ball...

I did install a new friction plate but it is a direct replacement from the manufacturer of my clutch assembly and I followed the installation instructions. It's a centerforce dual friction clutch and I never had issues before. When the engine was hanging on the hoist I installed the alignment tool and tightened everything down. 








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I'm totally at a loss and I know it has to be some silly oversight...


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

My gut is telling me it could be related to the clutch fork... I don't know why but I have a sneaking suspicion maybe the throwout bearing partially or completely slid off the fork and maybe the fork it incorrect after all or the pivot stud isn't long enough... Just because this fork exactly to the fork I replaced doesn't mean it's correct... Jim's point a while back about clutch fork issues is making me lean in this direction too...
I talked to Centerforce and that's really the only likely suspects they have without taking anything apart so I will look for evidence that the fork slid off the bearing partly. Nothing else makes sense as the clutch was installed correctly and the bearing did slide along the input shaft independently prior to installation...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

With the diaphragm style pressure plate, you should not need a left leg that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger's. If it were a Long or Borg & Beck type, you might need to go to the gym and work on that left leg muscle as they need a lot more effort to operate. So something has to be binding or the clutch fork could be the issue. If you happen to have the "generic" type clutch fork, the opening that slides over the throw-out bearing collar is actually too large and can slip past/over the collar and will cause a bind rather than a smooth operation of the clutch. If you push it hard enough, you may even break the collar on the throw-out bearing if it has slipped past it.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Transmission is out and bothe the fork and throwout bearing appeared to have been installed correctly. I’m going to try a few things like reinstalling the old parts temporarily to eliminate some variables and then check operation but I have another sneaking suspicion... there very well could be a foreign object in the clutch body that is binding or interfering with the diaphragm fingers. That assembly was looked over but it is entirely possible and that would explain why they won’t actuate. 

With the transmission out is held the clutch fork and throwout bearing in place and attempted to throw the pedal and nothing.... looking at the geometry, it’s almost as though the diaphragm can’t move because it’s already pushed in, maybe there is an object jamming it. More evidence to this point is the fork push rod needs to be adjusted really far out. Much farther than before. I think it’s safe to say the bell housing and clutch need to be removed and thoroughly inspected.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks like the diaphragm fingers on the pressure plate are flat? You may need the "long" style throw out bearing. There are three different length. There are also different facings, some are somewhat rounded (bearing on the left) while others are flat faced (bearing on the right). If you use the wrong length or wrong facing, either can give you trouble. Still check to make sure no small block was used under the diaphragm fingers/pressure plate housing. Not all do this, but a few do. If it was and you missed it, they could have fallen in somewhere.

With the fork on the throw out bearing, the fork should just about touch the front of the bell housing window. If it sits about middle or towards the back, wrong throw out bearing length.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

A quick note, before tearing it apart again, the fork was definitely aft. So much so that even if I was able to throw it further to release the clutch it would have struck the bell housing window. 

One thing that comes to mind too is how much the fingers flexed when I installed andbolted down the clutch to the flywheel. Something is amiss... I replaced the friction plate and the throwout bearing and even though I believe I replaced them with new parts of what I believed I had originally installed I couldn’t be certain. The old friction plate had no markings on it but when doing a one to one quick comparison before installing, they looked to be the same... it’s so frustrating and disheartening. I was meticulous with the fear something like this would happen. If it worked before with what I believe to be that same, just new, parts then it should work now. I know it has to be something silly like a damn loose bolt or a rock or something stupid is lodged in the clutch assembly. Or maybe I installed the friction plate in backwards even though it was clearly marked “flywheel side” or the throwout bearing could be the wrong length because I remember the face being the same as the old one, I just never did a side by side comparison of that part... 
I’m just glad this thing has a Muncie in it because it’s light as a feather, relatively speaking, and i can get it in and out in less than an hour without much effort. I’d hate to have to remove and reinstall an automatic by myself


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> Looks like the diaphragm fingers on the pressure plate are flat? You may need the "long" style throw out bearing. There are three different length. There are also different facings, some are somewhat rounded (bearing on the left) while others are flat faced (bearing on the right). If you use the wrong length or wrong facing, either can give you trouble. Still check to make sure no small block was used under the diaphragm fingers/pressure plate housing. Not all do this, but a few do. If it was and you missed it, they could have fallen in somewhere.
> 
> With the fork on the throw out bearing, the fork should just about touch the front of the bell housing window. If it sits about middle or towards the back, wrong throw out bearing length.


I tore into it last night finally and have concluded it's in the geometry. I certainly need a taller throwout bearing. I've poked around and will some more but you mentioned three different length bearings? who sells them? I found an adjustable one from McLeod that is a bit pricey at $67. Also, the pivot stud may need changing to an adjustable one but I'm going to start with the throwout bearing. There is a lot of movement along the transmission shaft with this throwout bearing and by the time it makes contact the fork only has about 1/4" of room before it makes contact with the bellhousing opening but in that movement I can feel that there is movement in the clutch. Once I figure out where to get a taller bearing I should be back in business... Even though I did a side by side comparison of my new fork to my old there muse have been a subtle difference. My old fork had a slight wear spot on it and would explain why sometimes it felt as though the clutch was lightly grabbing with the pedal pushed down.

Other news... I tested the electrical and I found a short in only one circuit, the brake/courtesy lamp fuse popped so I need to troubleshoot that one, also my drivers side tail light assembly does everything it should but the passenger looks a pit off, bad ground or crossed wire, My right turn signal sends power to the hazard light circuit, dash lights aren't working but I took a 50/50 chance on a wire there and looks like I was wrong. They had two options for the dash circuit card connection, stock gauges or stock lights... I have both. I don't know, that's a head scratcher. I think they need to relabel those choices when setting up that connector. Otherwise everything else works!! I even bumped the starter and turned it over a few times to keep things lubed, fuel pump, fans, ignition module and water pump all work correctly. I can't fully test the fans unless I take the thermocouple and drop it in hot water or something. And for the first time in over 20 years the original horns work! Lol! It's the little victories.








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]







[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]

I installed my new carb and started to figure out my fuel lines. The drop base air filter is causing major interference with the stock throttle cable and bracket so I replaced them with a Lockheart set and am really happy with it. 








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]







[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]







[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]







[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

If the clutch fork is almost hitting the rear of the opening, then the bearing is indeed too short. Fork should be almost hitting the front when correctly installed.

Take out your old throw out bearing for reference and bring it with you to match up bore diameter and where the clutch fork rides (might bring the clutch fork as well).

This is the "long" throw out bearing for a diaphragm style pressure plate (3-finger pressure plate uses a flat faced throw out bearing), and should measure just under 2" depending on what store you use: 

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BRGN1086SA

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/national-multi-purpose-bearing-614037/5052335-P

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=219741&jsn=3

You may or may not need the adjustable pivot ball, but it can be used to "fine tune" the throw out bearing/fork. Make sure the pivot ball fits well in the matching "dimple" on the clutch fork. As I recall, the aftermarket generic clutch fork had a smaller than stock dimple and I had to re-shape my pivot ball to get it to fit into the dimple - this should be a sign that you have the generic clutch fork which is not correct and should get the correct Pontiac clutch fork. You should also not be able to go past the throw out collar with the fork arms, if you can, again, aftermarket fork which means it can slip past the throw out bearing and bind. :thumbsup:

"I found a short in only one circuit, the brake/courtesy lamp fuse popped so I need to troubleshoot that one,"

PJ: This has come up a couple times. Seems it will turn out to be the courtesy lamp, check the wiring to it and the lamp socket itself.



I enclosed a photo for comparison between long & short throw out bearings. Not the exact one you want, but you can clearly see the comparison. There is an intermediate size as well, but not as common, so it should be the long you need.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Though my symptoms were a little different than others, if not more extreme, I was with out a doubt another victum of the infamous too short of a throwout bearing... I went with the adjustable McLeod throwout bearing (16505 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-16505 ). It has three .15" spacers that you can remove to get the height you need and after looking at the price of other "tall" throwout bearings I figured this was not terribly priced and that company had a pretty good reputation in quality. I had to remove one of the three spacers and after removing and reinstalling the trans a few times everything is as it should be!! I'm really pumped and cant thank you enough Jim for helping me out with this issue. 

Now I'm one fuel fitting and a power steering hose away from engine break in. I finished up the steel braided fuel lines, again, relocated the electric fuel pump and wired it up. I'll be doing a fuel system test once the fitting comes and the next cool dry day I will do the break in. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't extremely nervous about grenading the engine but I think everything will be good. I'll gather some pictures of the fuel line setup and be sure to get a good clip of her running once I get there. It won't be long until the snow flakes start falling here in central NY and I am so happy I've gotten to this point before I have to stuff her in her shoe box for the winter. I still have a lot to do before I can get her on the road and figuring out the wheel and tire sizes is the next big hurdle. With the front end being around 3" lower than it used to be, my current 225/60 R15's up front with 4"BS are rubbing somewhere under load and in a tight turn, I heard it when i pushed her into the road and turned her around by hand. I need to see where and how they are rubbing to understand if I can still go bigger like I originally wanted to by changing the B.S. on the wheels or not and/or rolling the lip but I have plenty of time to answer those questions... My original plan is to stuff 26"x10" R15's with 4" B.S. up front and 26"x12" R15's with 6" of B.S. in the rear but I need to cycle my new suspension and see how things will fit while under extreme loading and in tight turns. so I'll be lifting up individual wheels and taking measurements. Looking at the current stance, I should have no problem with that setup in the rear as I've heard of others putting slightly larger in the rear without needing tubs, it's the front that will likely cause the most interference so we'll see.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Great, glad the throw out bearing was indeed the fix. I don't know why, but it seems with regards to Pontiac's that these clutch kits have the short throw out bearing when you need a longer one. I've been caught myself by the same problem and nothing like sitting in the car with the trans in place & driveshaft hooked up, you fire up the engine, and the clutch does not release. Arrghh! Now you have to pull it all apart and do it all over again. Learned my lesson on that one and now I know where the clutch fork should ride with regards to the bell housing hole it sticks through with just the trans held in place by 1 bolt. If not correct, easy enough to stop right there and correct the problem. :thumbsup:

I don't know how long your engine has been setting, but if it has a flat tappet cam, I would pull the intake and valley cover and slop some break-in cam lube on it to protect it from a dry start. Then with the valve covers removed, I'd prime the oil pump and make sure I got oil to the rockers. Prime the pump and once oil is seen at the rockers, rotate the engine/crank 90 degrees by hand and repeat. Do this for a full 360 rotation to make sure everything gets oiled and no dry spots are left. Oil can be "squished" out of the bearings over time and if started up dry, could do damage before a sufficient supply of oil gets to them.

If roller lifters, then I would prime the oil pump and do the 360 rotation. I might also squirt just a light single squirt of oil up at the top wall on the cam side so the oil will run down and follow around on the top ring. I would use something like Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder as MMM is a very light oil just to put a little oil on the rings/cylinder walls just before firing up. Might do this just before doing the above priming procedure and take advantage of rotating the engine to put a little oil on the cylinder walls. It may smoke at first as the oil burns off, but should quit very quickly. Then put about 100 miles on it, and do a fresh oil/filter change.

This is *my opinion* on this and what I would do if I had an engine that sat for a time and was going to re-fire it up. So check around as there may be other ways or better ways to ensure you don't do any damage to the engine if it has been sitting for some time. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Thanks Jim. It hasn't been that long at all since I installed the intake and valley pan. I waited till the last min because I knew there was going to be a sufficient amount of time before I got to this point. I've been rotating the engine by hand every couple days also. I've done this once before and one thing I didn't do the last time was your priming method. I primed the oil system but didn't rotate the engine the way you described. It seems so simple and obvious (face palm)....

It's funny. I used to refurbish Black Hawks from the ground up, where my specialty was the flight control system, and that was far less intimidating to me than this. This is the second engine build I've done and as meticulous as I've been and applying the lessons learned from the first time, there is still that feeling of, damn I hope I didn't forget anything... Remembering that the reason this is my second engine build is because a metric bolt was used to secure the timing gear to the cam and the damage that caused warranted a complete engine rebuild from the block out. The fear of something like that happening again lingers regardless of how careful I was.

Thank you again for all of your advice on my journey to get where I am. 

I just picked up the parts for my custom steering hose, two ends (5/8 SAE inverted double flare and metric bubble flare w/ o-ring) and a length of black nylon braided hose. I'm going to lay them out to determine fit and required hose length then take it back to my hydraulic shop for them to cut and terminate. I'm really excited to feel this new steering setup as I've heard a lot of good things about the Grand Cherokee swap. The custom hose cost me around $80 for those interested. I used a local place (Syracuse, NY) called Omni Services. These guys are really friendly and always excited to help out with a custom project or race car applications.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Very cool on the Black Hawks. I used to work for Kaman Aerospace in Connecticut and do assembly work on the Kaman SH-2 Seasprite used by the Navy, then got moved to the B1B bomber section which was all new at the time, and then to the Navy's A6 Intruder area. Was there 2 years assembling & riveting sub assemblies. The SH-2 shell was assembled as a completed unit then shipped to Hartford, CT, where final assembly & flight testing took place before the Navy accepted them. My understanding is that they have since moved to Florida, but not sure if they still do the work. Really enjoyed that job. Kaman was also known for its guitars and country singer Glen Campbell was best known using one.

It doesn't take much to over-think and keep going through your mind what you did and then what you may have forgotten. I still get that way. Always makes me anxious before firing up any engine - fingers crossed. I hate those "aw, sh*t!" moments followed by "I knew it!" and shaking my head in disgust. LOL

I plan on doing the same thing with the hoses on my Jeep box. You can get adapters to make the metric fittings on the box work with an SAE hose, but like you, I have a local hydraulic hose/fitting shop that can custom make one, so it seems a better choice to me to go that way. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

SHE LIVES AGAIN!!! Below is a really short clip of the first moments of her running. Let me know if it doesn't work. I shut her down almost right away because I had no oil pressure on my gauge but that turned out to be an electrical glitch and I ended up using a multi-meter on the pressure sensor during the break in to make sure there was pressure, though that method wouldn't exactly tell me the value other than there was pressure.








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]

I found a couple more electrical bugs but the fans work, fuel system is good to go and all is well. Break in process went well. I wasn't able to monitor water temp because that's one of the bugs i discovered but the fans cycled on and off several times which tells me they were doing their job and on a 90 deg day with 60-70% humidity I am shocked i didn't overheat but the air coming off the radiator never felt terribly hot after the fans kicked on. Not it's time to get a video of her actually idling now that she's broken in, change the oil, reinstall the inner valve springs and start tracking down the couple minor electrical gremlins. I swear i had tears in my eyes. I remember it being extremely loud with those little Flowmaster Delta series mufflers but when she lit off I thought she was coming apart. Not the case. She fired right up on the first crank and sounded amazing. I haven't messed with the carb yet other than setting the float levels and the timing started outwith 13 deg advance on the crank and another 23 degrees with the bushing I used in the distributor, giving me around 36 degrees of advance and she liked it right off the bat. Once I change the oil and install the springs I'll be able to fine tune the carb and timing but initially everything went great!!

This one was right in the middle of the break in process....








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I don't know what I was doing when I recorded this so I apologize if you get vertigo from this video lol....








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]

This sound is brought to you by...

1969 Pontiac 400 block bored +0.040"
Speed pro flat top pistons
Scat aluminum H-beam rods
Comp Cams Xtreme Energy XE274H Hydraulic Flat Tapped Cam CCA-51-224-4
JP Perforance Pro Billet Timing Set JPP-5614
Stock crank (stroker kit will be in the future...)
Edelbrock Performer RPM 72cc heads
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake gasket matched to heads
Quick Fuel 750cfm SS series carb with annular boosters QF-750-SS-AN
Hooker headers
3" stainless exhaust dumped down right after mufflers
Flowmaster Super 10 series mufflers


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> I don't know what I was doing when I recorded this so I apologize if you get vertigo from this video lol....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope you are in error with "Scat _aluminum_ H-beam rods" and meant forged H-beam rods. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I changed out the break in oil and inspected it. I was pleasantly surprised to not find any evidence of water/coolant and there were no chips on the plug magnet. The oil looked quite clean and had no suspect odors. There was evidence of extremely fine metal "dust" in a homogeneous state but i expected this from breaking in new rings, cam, etc.... Having the oil filter on the firewall is beyond continent, btw! 

I've isolated my oil pressure issue down to either I have no oil pressure, which I believe not to be the issue because while she was running loosened the sending unit and oil began pouring out clearly under pressure, or the sending unit is faulty. Being that the sending unit had been removed for quite a long time and debris likely got into the pin hole I'm thinking this is the likeliest of suspects... Occam's Razor... A new sending unit will be here in a day or two.

The season is beginning to wind down and I suspect the weather to begin getting too wet and days too short to get much more done. I'd like to finish up the brakes and chase down some if not all of the electrical bugs but we'll see. I'd really like to just take her around the block once or twice to verify the clutch and rest of the drivetrain are good to go but the brakes have to be bled first and the tires make me nervous as they are 20 years old.

Here's one last video clip... 













[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I had an "AH HA" moment with the oil pressure and water temp issue.... I should have known better... I used my troubleshooting skills and isolated the problem. I installed the new pressure sender and that didn't fix the issue though the old sending unit was faulty so I went into basic spark chasing mode. I checked continuity in the gauge to sensor ends of the lead, all good. Sending unit has a good ground and when I contacted the gauge lead directly to ground the gauge shoots up to 100 psi so I knew the gauge was good and it had to be something interfering with the signal between the sensor and the gauge... To confirm this I grabbed a separate length of wire and directly connected the pressure sensor to the gauge, bypassing the new wire harness and BINGO, the gauge shot up to operating pressure. Once I figured this out I literally smacked my forehead... 

The gauges probably have a built in voltage divider and use the variable resisters (sending units or sensor) to interpret and relate voltage change to a numeric psi value. Well... under-thinking how I wired my gauges originally and trying to be clever.... When I wired up the dash oil pressure and water temp gauges I doubled up the wires at the gauge connections to basically daisy chain two gauges in parallel (my dash gauge and my aftermarket digital gauge pod mounted under the dash). I should have known this would not have worked. Both pressure gauges are sending 12 volts to a single variable resistor (pressure sensor) and in-turn interpreting the signal and therefore the signal is becoming garbage. If I want to operate two gauges then I need to use two independent sending units and dedicated leads. Lesson learned and I've managed to get one gauge working and am happy to see 70 psi in the mid RPM range.

Knocking out electrical gremlins continue. The next one that has me completely baffled... on the main firewall bulkhead connector there was a loose tan lead with a molded pin connector on it to be connected to the distribution valve. I'm assuming this is a brake light lead which uses brake pressure as a switch, I'm assuming it's in either parallel or series with the brake pedal switch, and should in no way be in the emergency brake dash light circuit... Unless I'm completely wrong and the dash brake light is supposed to illuminate with brake fluid pressure... because when I was bleeding the brakes and building up pressure by pumping the pedal the dash brake light would illuminate... oye...


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Now that the engine is broken in and has gone through a couple heat cycles, I'm going to conduct some re-torques... Anyone have any suggestions on items to consider verifying torque on? I'll be going over the headers, heads, bellhousing and since I am reinstalling the inner valve springs I'll be setting the rockers again using new lock nuts. I've also replaced the fuel filter and done an oil change since break in. All other fluids are new and the brakes have been completely flushed and bled.


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## deputycrawford (Jan 16, 2010)

When you do your torque checks, please check the intake bolts. My 72 lemans has an Edlebrock intake and has blown 2 intake gasket sets. I replaced them again, and re-check the torque after every heat cycle the first three times, and find most of them loose again. I have used thread sealant, and even blue loc-tite on them. After the first three times I re-torque, and check them every 2 heat cycles. Then I find about half of them loose. After another couple checks I find a couple loose, then finally none of them loose. Just my Pontiac 350 engine and maybe something is a miss. I just don't want you to have another problem you could avoid. Just do a "nut and bolt" check on everything on the car for awhile. Just saying. 

Jerry


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

deputycrawford said:


> When you do your torque checks, please check the intake bolts. My 72 lemans has an Edlebrock intake and has blown 2 intake gasket sets. I replaced them again, and re-check the torque after every heat cycle the first three times, and find most of them loose again. I have used thread sealant, and even blue loc-tite on them. After the first three times I re-torque, and check them every 2 heat cycles. Then I find about half of them loose. After another couple checks I find a couple loose, then finally none of them loose. Just my Pontiac 350 engine and maybe something is a miss. I just don't want you to have another problem you could avoid. Just do a "nut and bolt" check on everything on the car for awhile. Just saying.
> 
> Jerry


Excelent! Thank you. I Plan on just going over everything I can but I also want to hear stories like this so I know what I should give more focus on. Rebuilding helicopters is easy in that the documentation is extremely explicit on re-torque/torque check schedules and so on. Here I'm damn near completely blind but figure this is a good start.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

We are deep in fall here in Central NY and I even see the first snow in the forecast for this weekend... My garage is barely a garage by definition and doing any work on the GTO between now and April is a pipe dream at best... Until spring things will be very quiet. All I will be able to do is fight the mice and hope they don't destroy all of my hard work. But when Spring comes... Full speed ahead again!!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> We are deep in fall here in Central NY and I even see the first snow in the forecast for this weekend... My garage is barely a garage by definition and doing any work on the GTO between now and April is a pipe dream at best... Until spring things will be very quiet. All I will be able to do is fight the mice and hope they don't destroy all of my hard work. But when Spring comes... Full speed ahead again!!


What, stop because of cold weather? They make this thing called a Salamander Heater. I used to work in an old chicken coupe in Connecticut on my stuff during the winter. That Salamander Heater was all I needed to warm the inside area I worked in. You would be surprised how much heat they throw off.

One of the reasons I moved south - much longer warm periods, minimal snow/ice that does not last long. I get more "car time" this way. LOL


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I used to work on her in the garage in the winter in my last house but that garage was larger. Literally this garage is like putting a condom on my car. I would love to put a salamander in there to do work but there isn't any floor space and I can barley walk around it... IT's all good. I wish I could take the car, my boy and girlfriend and get out of here and move back to California or SC or something but unfortunately I am stuck here until the boy goes to collage and probably then some... I'll make the best of it and work on finding a place with land or a larger garage already as life progresses. 

There she is all nested and ready for hibernation... lol. In this picture she is all the way to the far left wall so that I can walk in next to her but I can't get my tool box doors open all the way without hitting the door or fender. Also with the rear bumper actually touching the back wall, the front bumper just clears the door by 2-3 inches.... 








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Finally! I'm back at it again.... It's been a long winter and I have been chomping at the bit to get back to working on her. I began reinstalling my inner valve springs. I'm waiting for a warmer day to fire her up and finally begin adjusting timing and fuel. I have a little more re-torques to take care of but it's just good to get her out of hibernation and get greasy again. 


This is a tool I made. the angle on the bar is perfect for the Pontiac valve angle. All I did was cut about an inch off the end, open up a large groove for the valve stem and opened and rounded the edges for the rocker stud. I haven't damaged the studs at all and have had nothing but luck with this perfect $4 Harbor Freight custom made valve spring compressor... 








[/url]Untitled by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Progress... So after setting the valve lash via the following method...

Pontiac Rocker Arm Adjustment

Even though I had taken my time I still managed to make an annoying mistake... If you listen closely to the following video you may hear it when I'm close to the engine bay. I started recording just a couple seconds after I got her fired up and this was the first time she ran since last fall. Really rough idle and there is something a miss that is disturbing and in addition to needing timing and carb' adjustments...








[/url]Before tuning, loose rocker by paradox_69_666, on Flickr[/IMG]

IT's painful to listen to and I was terrified I was loosing a rod bearing but the clatter sound didn't sound like a bearing going and sounded more like a rocker clattering, I had hoped. So I opened up the valve covers and started over again setting the valve lash on every valve. By the time I got to the last one I found the culprit... It was the #7 exhaust rocker and it was so loose I'm shocked the pushrod hadn't popped out of its socket. After setting them again, getting her running and up to operating temperature she sounded MUCH better. Aside from a couple leaks at the header, all abnormal sounds were gone and the anxiety melted away. 

Moving on to tuning, I set the timing and adjusted the carb' which had been running so rich there is black soot on my driveway and it was choking me out. This video is after this. The camera is too close and when revving the engine the sound gets extremely distorted. I'm a bit nervous about the vapor coming out of the exhaust though... I figure it's either water vapor from normal operation on a cold damp day or I have a head gasket leaking into a cylinder... Other than that, I am overjoyed with how responsive she is. No hesitation at all.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

It has been a long time and I started feeling like this project would never come to a point where I felt comfortable driving her so a few days ago I said to hell with it and lets just go around the block... What's the worst that could happen...? No mirrors, seat belts not installed, tail light still out, no plates or registration/insurance... the list goes on and on but I needed the motivational boost and to feel her rolling again. 

In the second video I came upon an issue I all but expected, I lost the prime on my fuel pump and had to fiddle with it to purge out the air. I have to relocate the pump and install foam in my fuel cell before I hit the open roads.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Now that's what I have been waiting for!!! Bad ass looking. Bad ass sounding. I just got a woody. :yesnod:

I like a guy who says "I just want to test drive it. I'll get it legal later." Done that a number of times in my youth and got caught a couple times - having to go to court on it a couple times and once having my car towed away and had to pay that nice bill. BUT, always worth a good memory, especially when your buddy is riding along as shotgun. Moral of that story was do not open up the two-fours on 450HP with open pipes while going under an overpass to impress your buddy - it alerts the state trooper sitting in a parking lot. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I began prepping my "holey" hood for primer and paint as my search for a used replacement continues...

p.s. if anyone reading this has one or knows of a 68-70 GTO hood within a reasonable drive from the state of NY drop me a line...

I needed to test fit the hood to see if I was going to even be able to get it to close with my current intake/carb/filter setup and damn was it close! I did close it all the way and measured less than an inch clearance from the front of the filter to where the hood would have been had there not been a gaping hole... So I will probably shoot this one with epoxy primer at the least on the next nice weekend along with my Carousel Red spoiler.

I'm trying to choose the final paint and it's between John Deere Blitz Black, KemFX Single Stage Satin Hot Rod Black Urethane, Eastwood Rat Rod Satin Black 3:1 Single Stage Paint or TCP Boulevard Black - Hot Rod Flatz Urethane Automotive Flat Car Paint. 

I'm leaning towards the John Deere. The depth of black, amount of sheen when both the thinner and harder are used is right on with what I'm looking for plus it's for farm equipment so I know it will hold up to some abuse. It's the only one that isn't a single stage urethane, I believe and seems to be very forgiving as a shoot in your driveway type paint as it sets up extremely fast.









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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Find a Trans-Am hood scoop and fit/cut that to your hood. Should easily fill the hole and go along with your theme. VFN makes 'em in fiberglass for $120 70-81 Firebird OR, get on Ebay as they have them.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

that could look pretty cool. I just found a used one in really good shape a couple hours from me for $250. I'll still have this one to play with and may attempt to do something like that too just for fun. Thanks Jim!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> that could look pretty cool. I just found a used one in really good shape a couple hours from me for $250. I'll still have this one to play with and may attempt to do something like that too just for fun. Thanks Jim!



$250 seems a bit high in my book unless I needed it for my Trans-Am restoration ($125 might be a better price seeing you may have to "adjust" it to work), that's why I pointed out the VFN fiberglass one. It appears in the photo that it may have a fairly flat area outside the scoop itself which might lend in its ease to mount to the under hood bracing. It will also be lighter than the factory piece.

Ebay has one for $99 plus shipping which would be cheaper and save you the drive/gas/time. This is also the later type. You can see the shape of the outer base and the hole on the top/left is the drain for rain/water. https://www.ebay.com/i/302989067267?chn=ps

Here is a great explanation along with photos or the differences in the scoops according to year of production. Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Site - Shaker Scoops

Where you have cut the insides of the GTO scoops, if there is any kind of gap, I would fill it in/fiberglass it to contour and then blend it into the Trans-Ams scoop to make it look all one piece molded together. Your matt black should contribute to the look. And if it were me, I would open up the back of the scoop to let cool air in/engine heat out. You will be the only GTO with this type hood - and will probably get a lot of lookers trying to figure out what you have and where you bought it. :thumbsup:

You may decide you don't need another hood. :yesnod:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I still may pursue this look with the Trans-Am scoop but to clarify, what I found for $250 was a GTO hood in really good shape and not just a Trans-Am scoop. Sorry for the confusion. Given that re-pop hoods cost anywhere from $550-$700 delivered I think this is a good deal for an original hood.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> I still may pursue this look with the Trans-Am scoop but to clarify, what I found for $250 was a GTO hood in really good shape and not just a Trans-Am scoop. Sorry for the confusion. Given that re-pop hoods cost anywhere from $550-$700 delivered I think this is a good deal for an original hood.


Agreed, that is a good price. Just check to make sure no kinks in it. The hood is long and heavy and as the hinges would develop a little rust or lose their lubrication, many would force the hood closed - until that one day when you really had to force it down and the hood would buckle or kink just in front of the hinge. Had one on one of my cars. Ruins the hood integrity. I skinned the hood to use on another hood for its scoops. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Tail light issue found... As suspected it was a bad ground connection from the ground straps to the bumper brackets. 








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Since I have the bumper off and this was my only external electrical issue I will begin prepping the whole car for paint. I'm going to use a little filler where needed but mostly I will be using Evercoat Slick Sand. 
Currently everything is sealed with a black epoxy primer so I think I will do a light coat of the gray slick sand and then block sand to identify the trouble spots and react to them accordingly. Depending on the severity of the high/low spots I may just use the high build primer to do most of my filling but we shall see.
Once I have the body as straight as I can get it I will seal it with John Deere Buff Primer Sealer, then hit that with a good 400 grit wet sand. After that I will take the fenders off so I can spray all the jambs and seams with John Deere Blitz Black as I will have the rear bumper off already too. With the fenders off I should be able to get into the door jambs well enough without having to remove the doors. After the jambs and seams are painted with the Blitz Black I'll get everything back on and shoot the entire car assembled. 
I only just stumbled upon this John Deere paint in another forum as it's quite popular in the "Satin Black" Hot Roding community. There are so many to choose from and the other one I was looking at was Boulevard Black from TCP's Hot Rod Flatz line, and still may change my mind back to TCP at the last minute... The John Deere is an enamel and intended for farm equipment that gets abused and baked in the sun so I have to believe it's not a bad choice.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I'm so glad it's been raining all month... my mud was starting to get dehydrated.

Closer and closer. Tail light issue solved. Rear bumper brackets painted and rear bumper reinstalled. My wiring is all buttoned up under the dash now. I have under the dash courtesy lamps now, thanks to the complete wire harness replacement, when I never had them before, all I need are some bulbs. I think I'm going to go through and replace all the incandescent bulbs with their LED equivalents, inside and out. AMES sells a few and so does Diode Dynamics, which is a very high quality brand but also very expensive relatively speaking. AMES also sells the LED flash relays that are needed when replacing turn and hazard incandescent bulbs with LED's or you will get a rapid flash. I did this on my VW and I absolutely love the results. Most of them can be found through various different vendors other than those two also. As I wait for summer to get here I will continue prepping for paint and finish up the last re torque I have left which are the header nuts.

Road worthy to-do list:
-Paint
-Wheels/Tires
-relocate fuel pump
-install fuel cell foam
-fabricate heat shield between headers and upper control arms, I'll probably hit up a pick-n-pull and take a heat shield from some car, trim to fit and away I go.

Once those things are wrapped up I would feel comfortable getting her registered and insured and start more extensive test drives. There is still a lot more to do after that like;
-weather stripping
-sound dampening/heat barrier, interior.
-sound system
-head liner and a few other interior items
-and all the little detail misc. items that are too long to list...

It is very encouraging... I am so close to being able to take her on the road again. It was around this time last year I started this thread and this weekend will mark the one year point when I got her back from the metal shop as a complete hulk when the real work began. I only was able to work on her for a couple hours after work and on the few weekends I didn't have my boy with me through the summer and yet I was able to get her so far. I have no doubt she will be on the road this year and maybe to a couple parking lot car shows.

The saga continues... stay tuned... 

Here is a Chevelle that is painted the same color I'm going with and has the same brands of wheels and tires. Differences I will have are all my trim and rear bumper will be painted. The only parts with a metal shine I will not paint are the grill edges, Pontiac badge on the nose and that's about it I think. 








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Cooling system update...

So after finally squaring away my temp gauge and sensor I was able to get good temp readings. I had been suspicious of the new 4600cfm double fan setup I was using. The system never stayed on for more than 30sec-1min. Now that I have a working gauge I was able to find out why. So between the BeCool aluminum radiator with double 1" flat tube cores, Flex-A-Lite Direct Fit double fan and BeCool coolant my system is so efficent it never needs the fans on for more than a few seconds before the temp plummets below the set point. The system has some intelligence too in that the fans turn on at 60% speed at set point and then they move to 100% fan speed if the temp increases 10degF above set point. Only in my system I have it set to come on at around 180F and a few seconds after the fans are on the gauge is reading 170F. An aside; my temp sensor is mounted in the head and not the intake near the goose neck. The thermistor for the fans is wedged in the radiator fin pack, I'm not too thrilled with this design but it works, and it's up as near to the return line port as possible. Coolant flow seems to be good too. Not too slow or too fast so I believe I'm getting good heat transfer. 

I am toying with the idea of putting in another gauge to monitor oil temp in conjunction with water temp so I can better monitor the actual block temp if my coolant system isn't transferring as much heat as I believe it is. 

I easily could have spent way more than I did for these two components as I looked through all the options. I think all in all I dropped $800, which includes coolant, fans, anode and radiator, and I don't see how spending any more would have gained me anything in the form or efficiency in heat transfer. I am extremely pleased with this setup and highly recommend it. 

The fans were fun installing as they are universal and they assume there is something near by them vertically or horizontally to conveniently mount the adjustable universal mounting brackets to but this was far from the case in my experience. The core support does not have much in the way of mounting provisions once you wad the radiator in. It's a bit bigger and takes up all the free space. 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-295
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bci-10008
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bci-25001

Also with all of the aluminum in my cooling system in the presence of an electrolyte and in contact with steel, installing a sacrificial anode gives me a lot of peace of mind. In the beginning of this restoration when I opened up the engine I noticed my new water pump housing/timing chain cover was pitted really badly around where the coolant passages are. I was really upset about this and had no idea the galvanic corrosion was happening so I did 10 minutes of reading and found this.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-32060
With the coolant being in direct contact with raw cast aluminum and iron, it's the perfect recipe for galvanic corrosion. I no longer have a petcock in my radiator for draining conveniently but I also don't have to worry about loosing some expensive and vital components due to internal corrosion.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks for the info. Should be of help to a few. However, the info is good enough to create a new Thread. Your info may get buried and not found. Maybe repost it under something titled "Cooling Options" and in this way perhaps other members will add their set-up. :thumbsup:

The Chevelle blacked out is what I was considering as well. Of course, he stole my rim idea. I am not sure I want black anymore as I keep coming up with other paint schemes as well.

If I went black, I would black out all the chrome as you pointed out. Except, I think I would keep the lower chrome on the rocker panel so it gives the body a "visual break" from the road surface. If you did not like it, then keep it, but black it out rather than remove it completely as it will add a little "texture."

Here are a couple pics. First one I thought about. Shiny black base, but all the areas you see in white, go with matt black to contrast with the gloss black.

Shiny Black '69 has the front air dam from a 1970 Judge added.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> Thanks for the info. Should be of help to a few. However, the info is good enough to create a new Thread. Your info may get buried and not found. Maybe repost it under something titled "Cooling Options" and in this way perhaps other members will add their set-up. :thumbsup:
> .


Good point. I'll get some more pictures on the system with respect to installing, fabricating brackets, wiring, etc.... Which Forum would you recommend I post it to? "1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO Complete Engine Compartment Discussion" maybe?


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

PontiacJim said:


> If I went black, I would black out all the chrome as you pointed out. Except, I think I would keep the lower chrome on the rocker panel so it gives the body a "visual break" from the road surface. If you did not like it, then keep it, but black it out rather than remove it completely as it will add a little "texture."
> 
> Here are a couple pics. First one I thought about. Shiny black base, but all the areas you see in white, go with matt black to contrast with the gloss black.
> 
> Shiny Black '69 has the front air dam from a 1970 Judge added.


Yeah man! I agree. I also really like the look of a front air dam/spoiler. I would love to see what I can find to get in that location. I'm not afraid of fabricating something but I have seen some 68/69's with various different chin spoilers...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Progress...

Electrical is 99.99% done. All is wrapped up and tucked away. The last to do with electrical is replace bulbs and find a good location for my fuel cutoff switch. either hidden under the dash or under the drivers seat. It's a great feeling having replaced the entire electrical system and have it all up and running properly. 

Once I finished the clean up of the electrical I moved on to applying a topcoat to my floor pan and set the gaps on the front bumper and fenders. Now that I have the fenders and bumper where I want them I'll mark them and remove the fenders for paint. I'll start sanding and priming as soon as I can. Maybe I'll take her for another test drive first to get it out of my system before removing the fenders. I can attest to one thing... adjusting the Endura bumper is anything but easy. They are damn heavy and if things aren't marked somehow before removal, which mine wasn't... it's a PITA to get it back. 








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I started body work.... This quarter was pretty bad. Clearly something hit here and someone did a quick and dirty hammer job pounding it out. I've spent a couple days hammering and doing some light filler layering and finally have it to an acceptable point. I'm nervous hammering it any more as the metal is work hardening and I don't want to thin it out to the point of oil canning. I also lightly DA sanded the whole car, which currently has epoxy all over, in pep for final paint.








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The other day I found a huge leak in my electrical fuel pump, it was about 15 years old and had too much run time without fuel to cool and lubricate the shaft seal and it finally went. I was able to find some replacement seals and got that back up and running, it also quieted the pump down a little... go figure.

In other big news... I finally pulled the trigger on all of my wheels and tires. I think I read every forum out there on tire size and back spacing on GTO's. Even still I am terrified I will have an issue with fit and then need to try selling mounted tires and wheels. I intend on making a separate post if I am able the get a good fit with this setup as I know there are a lot of people asking the question.... how big can I go?

This is the exact combo I will be mounting...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I finished up the quarter repair. next is removing the passenger fender and hammering out the couple dents you can see in the below images. It is not perfect, only replacing it would have accomplished that, but it is so much better. 

I installed more foam in my fuel cell so starving the fuel pump should be a thing of the past.

Also.... She got to try on her new pair of shoes!!!!! 235/60R15 Cooper Cobra's on Aero racing wheels; 58 series, 15X8 with 4" B.S. So far so good. I love seeing the Wilwood aluminum hub protruding through the center! I need to put my jack under the lower control arm, jack up and actuate the suspension in that corner and turn the wheel to the extremes to be certain I'm not going to rub. Then I'll put the old wheel back on until the body work and paint is done. I'm still a bit nervous but it looks really good. Going from 225/60 to 235/60 made a difference in height too. She was a bit low before with the 3" drop so this should give my cross member and headers some breathing, about an additional 0.5", room from the road.

These wheels require 45Deg chamfered lug nuts so I will get a set of them after I increase the lug studs from 7/16" to 5/8-18".








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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looking good. With regards to the rims, I might try to adapt these to those center caps: https://www.ebay.com/p/1967-70-Blac...Wheel-Cap-1pc-OEM/1770079487?iid=370828593882

There are other variations for Pontiac as well. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Great idea Jim for the rears for sure! The front's will have my nice Wilwood aluminum hubs protruding through and they look awesome but the rears definitely need something.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*Biggest tires I would fit in my GTO on 15" wheels*

All four new shoes are here and I have completely tested the fit. All is well!!! I can't imagine trying to squeeze in any more tire in the back or front. In the front with the wheel jacked and completely unloaded I turned her through the stops and had only one minor interference. It was in a condition that if I ever had the car in a situation where the wheel would see this state while driving... Tire rub would be the least of my concern. The rub happened with the passenger side at the front lip of the fender at the bottom corner. With the wheel completely unloaded and the steering turned to the stop, that fender corner touched the tire. Again... if I'm driving and have the wheel locked to the left and the wheel is completely unloaded something went horribly wrong.

The fronts are 235/60R15, wheels are 15"x8" w/ 4" B.S. Any more B.S. in the front with a 15" wheel and the wheel would be contacting the steering tie rod where it connects to the steering arm on the spindle. Any less B.S. and I would certainly be rubbing the fender in a couple places.

The rears are 295/50R15 mounted to 15"x10" Aero wheels with 5.5" B.S. The tires are about .5"-.75" from contacting the frame/inner wheel well with the wheel jacked up into the pocket to the point where the opposite wheel was lifted off the ground. Again, I feel I'm safe there. Also the rear wheel never came close to contacting the outer wheel/quarter lip. This new suspension (complete BMR package) helped a lot with this due to it be so incredibly stiff, even if the wheel was too wide I don't think I could ever load the rear wheel enough to raise it that high.

So a huge step forward and a huge sigh of relief. I was so nervous this setup wasn't going to fit and I would be stuck trying to sell them or make them fit somehow. I was prepared to roll the fender and/or rear wheel well lips but I am happy to report I did not need to do so.

FYI... the rear wheel/tires weigh 54lbs and the fronts weigh 47lbs.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*JDBB; Blitz Black GTO*

I have everything I need. I expect to be shooting in two or three weeks..... What's the worst that could happen...? :grin2:

There is one key ingredient missing in the image below.... I forgot the beer!








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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

curtis.smith68 said:


> I have everything I need. I expect to be shooting in two or three weeks..... What's the worst that could happen...? :grin2:
> 
> There is one key ingredient missing in the image below.... I forgot the beer!
> 
> ...


No, the beer is not missing. It is after the job, so you can celebrate, not inebriate while doing the job. Get it straight..........or it may not be. :thumbsup:


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I had a nice day to shoot some paint a week ago. I am really pleased with how she turned out!! 








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Ok ok... It's just my diecast model '69 GTO, I have never been able to find a good '68 diecast, but I did use the JD Buff primer and JD Blitz Black. I've painted this model 5-6 times to try out different paints and colors. The model is the best swatch you can find, IMHO.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

American Muscle put out the 1/18" scale 1968 GTO. I bought one about 8 or so years ago at a retail store, so I didn't get raped on the price. You can get one on Ebay, but not inexpensive.

There is presently a 1/18" scale '68 GTO in the Royal Bobcat colors. About $90.

And, there was also a Revlle 1/25" scale 1968 plastic kit put out several years ago. I purchased 2 of those at a hobby store.

And of course, promo cars.

Just check Ebay.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The temporary paint booth has been erected and used last night. I didn't close off the end since most of the spraying was done in the garage and on the body's doors and quarters. For that it worked nicely. I will need to do something different for when I shoot the whole car as the legs of the canopy got in my way and they were very difficult to get by maintaining good distance and consistent lines back by the quarters. 
I put up 4mil plastic up in the garage and hung the fenders on the back wall, I'll get a picture of that tonight. Everything came out really good, I shot some Slick Sand high build filler primer, so I will block sand tonight and tomorrow then re do the booth. A neighbor says he will let me use his 12X20 harbor freight party tent. I'm going to give that a try for the next stage, which is applying the sealer primer to everything.

I can't get this image to populate rotated in the correct orientation for the life of me...








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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

The pic was too big. Reduced the pic size using the "Paint" program. Double click will enlarge it just a bit more.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The weekend was spent doing the final prep work and erecting the final paint booth. Cleaning, spot filling, dusting and final masking took up most of the day. By the time I was ready to shoot primer the temp dropped into the 70's and was only 10-15 deg off of the dew point. I will be shooting today as it appears it will be dry enough when I get home from work after I get my hood on the stand there in the foreground. A quick wipe down with tack cloth over everything and I'm off and running. I'm aiming for a light coat and 1-2 wet coats of the Buff primer sealer. If time permits I will hit the jambs, gaps and hidden edges with the black too. 3-4 days later I'll get the bumper, fenders and hood installed then shoot everything with the JD Blitz Black.

I love that my boy photo bombed this one... lol. These are the memories I will cherish the most, my goofy boy.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

All primed and sealed. I have to wait 36 hours from when I laid it down so I plan on hitting the jambs and gaps with the final paint Thursday, install the fenders, bumper and hood Friday and possibly shoot the whole thing Friday evening or Sunday. It's very exciting! 

After the body panels are reinstalled and I have my garage back I will prime and top coat all the trim and vent window parts. My shoe box of a garage would not accommodate the two tables I would have needed to paint all of that plus the space to hang some of it.

The primer is much more dark amber in the flesh. The canopy makes it look like a light pastel but the shot of the bumper is the closest to reality. 








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Today's progress...
All the jambs, gaps and such are all painted with the final coat of John Deere Blitz Black. Temp was about 76F and humidity was in the low 50%. I mixed it 8-1-1 paint to JD thinner and the recommended hardener . 
I took these a couple hours after it was laid down and was to the point where I could touch. I am very happy with the outcome and am excited to get the body panels back on to shoot the whole thing. I will test the paint in a discreet spot tomorrow for hardness and make a decision on if it's hard enough for me to handle and install.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

*JDBB; Blitz Black GTO Unveiling!*

The paint has been laid down! I am quite pleased with the results. There is some over spray in a few areas that make it look a little streaked but I tested a spot and it appears it will wash off. I'm going to let it cure for a couple weeks before I wash it but in the mean time I am so stoked. A few tweaks of some body panels and she will be ready for reassembly of trim, gaskets and seals. I have since installed the new door seals and trunk seal. I'll be painting the trim and vent window pieces then reinstall in the coming weeks. 

For an inexpensive paint like this John Deere Blitz Black I am really happy with how it laid down. It was really easy to shoot. In the sun it's not a deep rich black like the Hot Rodz Boulevard Black I originally wanted to shoot. At the right angle there is a hint of some red to it, almost brown, but it is extremely subtle and the light and angle have to be just so to notice it and this is me being nit-picky. It has an incredible sheen which ads a depth I love. It's not flat at all and the high gloss i sprayed on the spoiler is a nice contrast... 

Stay tuned for more!








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

I started adding some LED’s. Dash lights and tail lights so far. Huge difference and completely unnoticeable as an aftermarket upgrade. Safer and much brighter. 

Can you tell which side has the new led’s...?


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Trim is going back on! Rockers, drip rails, door handles, locks etc... I'll get a picture today when i install the snorkels I finally painted high gloss black. The contrast looks awesome. I might repaint some of the trim pieces in a high gloss black too for the subtly contrast. 

On a sad note.... We had a storm blow through a couple days ago and there was a burst that took the canopy the car was under and turned it into a pretzel... there are a few deep scratches on the roof, paint chipped off the edge of the door handle and some bad scuffs on the D/S door, 1/4 and pillar... I'm pretty upset about it and now looking for remedies for getting the scuffs out of this paint. I read a few promising things and will do some testing. The unfortunate part is, this paint once fully cured can drive nails and I've read it is very difficult to scratch and probably would not have suffered the same damage had it had more time to cure. It takes weeks if not months to fully cure though. Over night it is hard to the touch but weeks for it to be hard as nails. 

A buddy lent me his air brush so I can touch-up the door handle and possibly the scratch on the roof that went through to primer...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Finally working on the valance. It was in really rough shape. It's obvious it's had quite a few hits. Since they aren't too expensive to get replaces I'm not going to break my back trying to get it perfect. It's dented so badly in a few spots I'm worried about oil-canning once I hammer it out from the metal stretching. I did manage to get 90% of the dents out though and started to apply filler. I was blown away at how much filler was applied to it when i was stripping it. It was about 1/4" thick in an area that was completely straight. I don't understand people. Also, most of the dents did come out with just 2 hours of hammering. If i spend half a day on it I could get it really straight but that's when I'd be worried about the oil-canning so I'm going to leave it as is. I imagine someone proficient would have gotten more out and smoother than myself but rather this thing was loaded with filler.... it absolutely baffles me...

It looks like a lot of filler in the image but it's the second coat and has yet to be sanded. The first coat was thin and took care of most of the small dents. The second one looks like it may be the last one but I have a lot of sanding to do. I will probably take most of it off once done. I tend to lay it on a little thicker than I probably should which causes a lot more sanding work for me but still, it's not too terrible sanding it down when you have the right materials.








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After this I'll be putting her away for yet another winter...

Oh! So I took her for a long drive in the neighborhood and discovered something... I had yet gotten her up to speed enough to shift out of first since getting her driving this summer. You'd think I would have learned from the last time I took the Transmission out.... So I had been getting nervous about the shuddering she was doing off the line and why the hell I had to have her up in 2-3K RPM to get her going and having to ride the clutch for so damn long after she started rolling. I have a bigger cam so I just chocked it up to that and it's a new friction plate on the clutch so I thought that was the shuddering. Turns out I was not starting out in 1st but I was starting out in second. I stupidly installed all three linkage plates in upside-down which completely flipped my shift pattern. 1<-->2 and 3<-->4 and reverse was left and down instead of up... oye... That is the second time I had done that. I did it the first time I built the engine back in '04. Lesson learned? not so much. I'll be taking care of that first thing next spring when i get her out of hibernation.

I also got the axles squared away with respect to installing 1/2-20 studs. It turns out after removing the stock studs the holes were the perfect size to tap with 1/2-20 threads. So I went with screw-in studs instead of press-in studs. It turned out really nice and now I have the same lug nuts all the way around with the correct 45deg taper for these wheels.

Here is the latest photo shoot... with the gloss snorkels installed and sans valance... 








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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Badass looking! Love it. :thumbsup:


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## cij911 (Oct 25, 2017)

Looks great! Move to Cali and drive it year round ...3-2-1 Cali haters chime in


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

cij911 said:


> Looks great! Move to Cali and drive it year round ...3-2-1 Cali haters chime in


Thanks man. Both myself and my goat were born and raised in California. She was built in Fremont; I was born in Santa Clara and raised in Hollister. I've been stuck in NY since '03... She used to be my daily driver back home too... Damn I miss the West Coast. A few more years and I'm out of here. I still have the original black and gold plates on her too and never will a NY plate be installed if I can help it. I still get registration in the mail. Johnny law will probably give me a hard time eventually. Stop and collect... or is it serve and protect...? Sometimes I just can't remember.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Almost there...

There is something so satisfying about hammering out dents and laying down some smooth paint...

Here I've laid down some black epoxy primer then two wet coats of Slick Sand high build filler primer. It's getting damn cold up here and it took two days for the filler primer to dry completely. Next is guide coat and block sanding then I'll lay down the JD Buff sealer/primer, JD Blitz Black and then she will be all done. I can't wait to get the valance back on to shoot some photo's with the lights on showing off the LED's.








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The valance is done! I'm happy with how it came out and love the LED's! The pictures don't really do justice on the richness of color in the LED's. They are a bit washed out but they are damn bright and look great against all that black! Now it's time to finally tuck her in for the winter...








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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Back at it again!! What on earth is going on with this site... why did they have to go and ruin the method for inserting images?!?!?! Now every single image on this thread is gone. What the hell is the point of even continuing. A huge portion of the value of this thread and many others is gone now. What ever. Obviously someone knew this would happen and calculated the decision anyway. I can't believe the page developer had no idea this would happen... 

Back to the project...

It's been a long winter but an early spring! I have started a couple projects and one major event has happened... For the first time in 10 years she finally has a registration sticker and for the first time in 15 years I will take her out and just cruze... I have the same damn butterflies in my stomach the first time i bought her and drove her out of the neighborhood back when I was 19.








The first can of worms I've opened is securing my fuel cell. Up till now it's just been floating around my trunk and since I've only been driving around the block at 15mph that hasn't been a problem. So I went to a local steel supply outlet and picked up a 20' length of 2" x 2.5" angle iron and got to cutting. I'm about 80% there. Half way through I had second thoughts about the top portion so I have to cut my tack welds on that part and rearrange it. The bottom and sides are all set and ready to be painted and permanently mounted to the trunk floor. I'm depating just strapping the cell to what i have so far. all i really need at this point is something keeping it from falling out in the event of a rollover. I'm happy with it and it's not gioing anywhere...

















Second was soundproofing. I purchased 50 sqft of Kilmat 50mil sound deadening material, just enough to do the floor, roof and doors. I've heard mixed advice on installing it. Some say 50% coverage is adequate and anything over that is a waste of material and yet others say 100% coverage... So I went somewhere in between. Super easy to install and WOW what a difference! Especially on the roof where there are no ribs or bead rolls or any feature to reduce vibration. I also installed a product I saw on a restoration YouTube channel. The material is from a company called Bonded RV Products. It's a thermal barrier material made of recycled clothing material, mainly denim. There are a lot of products like these out there but the price was right and it certainly does the trick. I installed the Bonded stuff on the floor pan/firewall and will also install it on the roof to protect against the heat of the sun. I'll need 2.5 orders of it to cover all these surfaces (4' x 6' sheets).
















Third... Time for a new shifter. I will keep my original and possible rebuild it and freshen it up but I had a Hurst Indy shifter and wanted to use it. The throw is much shorter, smoother and tighter than my original. The problem is all the interference it presents. It's a universal kit and in order to have such short throws it sits really high to support the geometry needed for the desired results. This means modifying my floor pan in that area and modifying the shifter cover to fit. I am happy with it overall. I will be improving it with a great product by 5speeds.com. It's a product he developed, hardened steel bushings and much better springs for installing the linkages to the plates and shifter.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

The saga continues.....

Headers have been pulled, wrapped and reinstalled. I was this damn close to throwing them away and investing in over sized factory headers from Ram Air Restorations but that would have required other changes and would have put me back nearly a grand in the end. I'll see how this wrap holds up on the headers. If they are still melting my lower control arm bushings I will make an additional heat shield as a last ditch effort. 

I must say though... They do look perdy in that particular wrap. I installed DEI's lava wrap, not the fiberglass wrap. 































I have also installed a new shifter/linkage kit. It's a Street Super Shifter. I am so happy with it. Some modifications to the floor pan were needed and the shifter cover plate will need to be either hand made or the original tweaked in order to fit. The throw is incredibly short and tight. The reverse lockout is really light, however, and therefore if one is too aggressive attempting to get into first they can find themselves in reverse without knowing it. There is no provisions on the shifter for a reverse light switch as it's a universal shifter so I'll need to get creative there. I'm thinking of just mounting a rocker switch under the dash for the reverse lights if nothing else. 

Finally I am able to enjoy her! I took her out LEGALLY on Easter Sunday, (Zombie Day) for the first time. It seemed fitting since she had risen from the grave lol! With nice weather on the horizon I lan on putting some good miles on her this year. I have already racked up 100 miles on the couple nice day's we've had since Easter. A few hundred more and the clutch should be broken in. 

Next up is having a shop dial in my alignment better than I was able to do with jack stands, string and a ruler, and a tint job on the windows to finish off the look.


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

Mostly all is quiet... I had one issue recently. I have been having oil pressure fluctuations so I went to check the level. I have always struggled with my dipstick and they way Pontiac' dipstick tubes are designed. I couldn't get the dipstick to get into the inner transition tube, the one pressed into the windage tray, until finally after pushing and twisting and on and on... I felt something let loose and it let out that gut sinking sound of something landing on the oil pan. I believe the inner tube fell out of the windage tray and into the pan. Now I have no idea if my oil level is low or not but i did add some and crossed my fingers that the tube fell away cleanly and fired her up. I think i got lucky. The tube seems to have fallen into the sump and my oil pressure has mostly resumed normal operating pressures. It was going from 70PAI on the highway down to 30PSI. now it mostly maintains 60-70 but will occasionally dip to 40-50. I am going to change the oil and filter tomorrow as I suspect the issue may be the filter going in and out of bypass...

It's always something😐...

I've been racking up the miles, probably around 350. Cruises have started up and I did take her to her maiden little parking lot car show. There were maybe 50 cars there. Such a good feeling. The Syracuse Nationals have been canceled this year but it seems as though people are looking to make up for it with rouge parking lot shows and large cruises. Looking forward to doing what I have always done best with this beast, breaking rules and fueling the inner rebel in me.

In a lighter note, I have begun going through my interior parts and taking inventory of what is good and what is bad. I am needing a good bit of all the little things like vapor barrier for the door panels and the foam and springs around the window cranks/door crank. I found a back seat from someone here that is in excellent shape and have since finished off the outside look. Back window trim needs to go in but I have finally achieved the look I had envisioned so long ago. The last touch was tinting the windows. Maybe an evening shot will cut down on the glare but it looks damn good with the windows smoked out! I had fun with the filters too. The last one looks like it could have come out of a magazine from the late 60's.

Enjoy...


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

After reading Pontiac Jim's post on the same oil pressure issue and reading through my copy of Max-Performance Pontiac V-8's I believe I have the same issue. I probably have debris jamming the bypass ball valve. What is crazy is that my pressure will get up to the advertised 70 psi and down to 30 psi all on the highway and all at the same speed; after completely warmed up and after cruising on the highway for some time... I'm going to just monitor the pressure and if it gets below 30 at any point I'll park her till winter. I intend on just biting the bullet and pull the engine this winter to fix the suspected dipstick tube and this oil pump, assuming changing the oil and filter have no affect. I'll probably tack weld the dipstick tube to the windage tray if it is not stainless. I may also change the pump with a Butler pump and the oil pan with a Canton deep sump. I like that they have baffles and a oil pan mounted dipstick.

If Jim can limp it along this way for 7 years I suspect I I will be fine till this winter.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

curtis.smith68 said:


> Old body bushings are gone! because I neither have the time nor the means to do an actual frame off I am making due with what I have. So in the end after figuring things out on one side, I was able to get a system down for the other side.
> 
> First I removed the hardware securing the bushings. Surprisingly these things came out really easy and without the need for penetrating oil. After that I found the two center most body braces and spanned a 2x6 across them and put a jack in the center. Then I lifted until the tires were all but off the ground. This gave me enough clearance all the way from front to rear to be able to spray the frame with degreaser, ospho and then epoxy primer. From the pictures below it is clear where a good portion of my body roll was coming from...
> 
> ...


Curtis, sorry if im duplicating a question. Were the front fenders still bolted the car as well when you lifted the body? Im comtemplating this swap in my garage as well and had that questison


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

TxGTO69 said:


> Curtis, sorry if im duplicating a question. Were the front fenders still bolted the car as well when you lifted the body? Im comtemplating this swap in my garage as well and had that questison


hey man. So when I did this The fenders were installed. I thought about removing them because of how far I was lifting the body. I didn’t want to tweak them or cause them to bind on the edge of the doors. I got lucky there but I did chip some of the epoxy primer off the fender due to contact with the door. I needed to lift the body high enough to get my hand in there to clean and paint the body and frame in those areas too. If you are just swapping the bushings though and don’t need to clean and/or paint the area between the frame and body then you probably could get away with leaving the fenders on. The forward most mounts are the most challenging with the fenders installed. I figured if I left them installed it would help keep my body aligned when I dropped it back down on the new mounts. Due to some minor alignment issues I’m having with my bumper I have a feeling just leaving the fenders on didn’t keep the body as perfectly aligned as I assumed it did. It’s not that bad but thefront passenger side of my hood rubs on the bumper when the hood gap on the sides and back are perfect.
Side note. I need to go back through and upload all my photos again. This thread was created a couple years ago before the made the major change tot he platform so all my pictures are lost...


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

curtis.smith68 said:


> hey man. So when I did this The fenders were installed. I thought about removing them because of how far I was lifting the body. I didn’t want to tweak them or cause them to bind on the edge of the doors. I got lucky there but I did chip some of the epoxy primer off the fender due to contact with the door. I needed to lift the body high enough to get my hand in there to clean and paint the body and frame in those areas too. If you are just swapping the bushings though and don’t need to clean and/or paint the area between the frame and body then you probably could get away with leaving the fenders on. The forward most mounts are the most challenging with the fenders installed. I figured if I left them installed it would help keep my body aligned when I dropped it back down on the new mounts. Due to some minor alignment issues I’m having with my bumper I have a feeling just leaving the fenders on didn’t keep the body as perfectly aligned as I assumed it did. It’s not that bad but thefront passenger side of my hood rubs on the bumper when the hood gap on the sides and back are perfect.
> Side note. I need to go back through and upload all my photos again. This thread was created a couple years ago before the made the major change tot he platform so all my pictures are lost...


Thanks for the info. That defiantly helps, I’ll be attempting this soon. Approximate how high did you lift the body off the frame and did you just lift one side at a time I am assuming?


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## curtis.smith68 (May 9, 2018)

TxGTO69 said:


> Thanks for the info. That defiantly helps, I’ll be attempting this soon. Approximate how high did you lift the body off the frame and did you just lift one side at a time I am assuming?


no problem. Yeah, I just did one side at a time so I could keep the body straight and I probably lifted it like 6-8” off the frame. I just spanned a 2x4 across the body straps to distribute the load and lifted it with a jack. I almost used my engine hoist and the seatbelt mount points if that didn’t work but didn’t have to.


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## TxGTO69 (Dec 2, 2020)

curtis.smith68 said:


> no problem. Yeah, I just did one side at a time so I could keep the body straight and I probably lifted it like 6-8” off the frame. I just spanned a 2x4 across the body straps to distribute the load and lifted it with a jack. I almost used my engine hoist and the seatbelt mount points if that didn’t work but didn’t have to.


AWESOME!!! Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for your help.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

curtis.smith68 said:


> Yo!
> 
> So this is the beginning. I'm as green as a blade of grass in April when it comes to forums but I wanted to find a place to lay down my experiences and progress with this unique personal project. I'm sure there will be many who will cringe at what i've done but I wanted to make this car my own. I wanted to merge modern tech with old-school muscle and the raw brutality that I find in my definition of a true muscle car. GTO's are arguably the first true muscle car and there are plenty of other's who own "Pony" cars that would beg to differ. I love this car and I appreciate what Delorean was trying to do in the mid-late 60's with this car. He appreciated the style of Eruo cars but wanted to merge it will the large size and power that became the GTO. Maybe I'm wrong there but that's my opinion from what I've read.
> I'm going to take that and run with it. Unfortunately my budget is not limitless but i feel I am able to make some good compromises. I would love to have the ability to throw in the absolute top of the line products and make this car everything I have ever dreamed of but I don't and I can't. However, i have made some quality decisions and have been extremely satisfied to date...
> ...


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