# '05 GTO vs '02 Kenne Bell Mustang GT



## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Hope this thread doesn't make you roll your eyes. Just lookin' for info for some mods that I'll probably do in a year or so.

Got a friend with a big mouth and a Kenne Bell 4.6 GT It's a 2002 Automatic Mustang GT:
4.10 gears
Off-road X-Pipe
Borla Stinger Cat-Back
42lb Injectors
75mm TB
90mm MAF
Kenne Bell 9 lb intercooled kit
10 lb pulley...making 11 lbs boost

Any way of hanging with him, with some mods?
I'd like to stay away from forced induction and the nitrous approach. He's claiming around 440 whp. Can I get there or better by sticking with the naturally aspirated approach?

Thanks


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## QwkRed05GTO (Oct 17, 2005)

As the current owner of an 05 GTO and a heavily modded 02 Mustang GT (11.01 @ 120 mph), I have experience with both cars. When my GT was stock it could run 13.8 @ 100 mph (5 speed). With his mods and considering the auto trans, he is probably capable of low to mid 12's, depending on driver ability. Unless he has more mods that he is hiding, there is no way he is making 440 rwhp @ 10 lbs of boost with the KB supercharger. More like 375-395. My best so far in the GTO is 13.3, so assumming you can do the same, there is no way you can hang with him without some serious mods.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2005)

Hmmm, he has a 9lb kit, with a 10lb pulley, but making 11 lbs boost? Odd.

Anyway, with a set of heads, cam and gears, on a drag radial, SURE you can beat him. But are you willing to drop 10k in mods just to beat this cat?


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

QwkRed05GTO said:


> As the current owner of an 05 GTO and a heavily modded 02 Mustang GT (11.01 @ 120 mph), I have experience with both cars. When my GT was stock it could run 13.8 @ 100 mph (5 speed). With his mods and considering the auto trans, he is probably capable of low to mid 12's, depending on driver ability. Unless he has more mods that he is hiding, there is no way he is making 440 rwhp @ 10 lbs of boost with the KB supercharger. More like 375-395. My best so far in the GTO is 13.3, so assumming you can do the same, there is no way you can hang with him without some serious mods.


I'm just taking him at his word about his mods and his HP claims. He says that KB owners commonly see 400whp dyno runs after they've installed just the 9 lb IC kit, w/ all of the KB inlet components. Maybe I'll just keep the mods to the basic bolt-ons like Cat-Back, CAI, hand-held tuner, etc...


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2005)

Good decision. there will always be somebody faster and no point in taking out 9 second trusts on your house just to beat a few here and there.

Have fun !!! (preferably without going broke)


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

big_mike said:


> Hmmm, he has a 9lb kit, with a 10lb pulley, but making 11 lbs boost? Odd.
> 
> Anyway, with a set of heads, cam and gears, on a drag radial, SURE you can beat him. But are you willing to drop 10k in mods just to beat this cat?


No, 10k will probably be way too rich for my blood. Sounds like it'd be cheaper to go supercharged, but I've seen a few posters that didn't recommend forced-induction for these motors. I'll just keep it simple and not worry about his Mustang. I'm sure I'll still have top-speed bragging rights with his 4.10 gearing.

As for his boost and pulleys, all I know is that I was in his car when his AutoMeter gauge indicated a solid 11 lbs boost. Felt strong, just don't see how he stands the off-road/Stinger combo as a daily driver.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

LSx engines run too high of a CR to do forced induction, Sean with MDMC can get 550 hp with these mods; CNC ported cylinder heads, Custom cam and push rods, 1 7/8 ceramic coated long tube headers, 2.5 inch high flow exhaust, Custom computer tuning and Custom 4 inch air intake system. You can bump that up to 650 with a Custom D1 Procharger and a 3 Core custom intercooler.

Seems like he told me around $6k for the 550 package, don't quote me on that.

http://www.moderndaymusclecars.com/gto.html


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

05GTO said:


> LSx engines run too high of a CR to do forced induction, Sean with MDMC can get 550 hp with these mods; CNC ported cylinder heads, Custom cam and push rods, 1 7/8 ceramic coated long tube headers, 2.5 inch high flow exhaust, Custom computer tuning and Custom 4 inch air intake system. You can bump that up to 650 with a Custom D1 Procharger and a 3 Core custom intercooler.
> 
> Seems like he told me around $6k for the 550 package, don't quote me on that.
> 
> http://www.moderndaymusclecars.com/gto.html



Thanks for the link.

The 475hp package looks about like the right options for me.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

GTOdealer, PFYC, PFYV and Tbyrne are supporting sponsors of this forum, all can supply you with the needed parts.

If you are near Atlanta here is a map of MDMC's location;

Modern Day Muscle Car


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## 05 goatman (Sep 13, 2005)

is that 475 rwhp or at the crank on those packages


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## slonlo_350 (Sep 22, 2005)

05 goatman said:


> is that 475 rwhp or at the crank on those packages


 Has to be crank. You're not gonna make 475 to the wheels with headers alone. Maybe 375.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

slonlo_350 said:


> Has to be crank. You're not gonna make 475 to the wheels with headers alone. Maybe 375.


 :agree 

May be around 410hp to the wheels, here is the dyno on the 510hp package for the LS1;


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## Doc GTO (Nov 29, 2005)

ModBoss2 said:


> Hope this thread doesn't make you roll your eyes. Just lookin' for info for some mods that I'll probably do in a year or so.
> 
> Got a friend with a big mouth and a Kenne Bell 4.6 GT It's a 2002 Automatic Mustang GT:
> 4.10 gears
> ...



Have a guy in town with the same setup but with 3.73s and he put down 422 rwhp. 440 is a stretch, especially with an auto slushbox. Autos always dyno less and even more so with a stall. That stock 2V bottom end is already stressed with it's weak 2 bolt mains unless he installed a girdle. I think the B.S flag needs to be pulled . . .


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Doc GTO said:


> Have a guy in town with the same setup but with 3.73s and he put down 422 rwhp. 440 is a stretch, especially with an auto slushbox. Autos always dyno less and even more so with a stall. That stock 2V bottom end is already stressed with it's weak 2 bolt mains unless he installed a girdle. I think the B.S flag needs to be pulled . . .


Unless his AutoMeter gauge was faulty, I did witness the 11lb boost...the HP claims, I never saw the proof of that, but even I know that a KB tuned 9lb complete kit is supposed to be good for 400hp, but the KB tune is pig-rich and he's got a custom tune and is not at 9lbs anymore.

[edit] Just noticed your screen name. Doc GTO...I know I've heard that name before. I think my friend must have talked about/to a Doc GTO that posts at a Mustang forum. Unless there's two Doc GTOs


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2005)

who is "she" modboss???


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

big_mike said:


> who is "she" modboss???


Did she make you smile? She has that affect on me.

She's Judy Davis...a great actress; better in her older, smaller films, imo.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2005)

make ME smile? not many older women make me smile.....Kinda dig chics in their 20's and 30's.....not 40's! lol


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## Doc GTO (Nov 29, 2005)

ModBoss2 said:


> Unless his AutoMeter gauge was faulty, I did witness the 11lb boost...the HP claims, I never saw the proof of that, but even I know that a KB tuned 9lb complete kit is supposed to be good for 400hp, but the KB tune is pig-rich and he's got a custom tune and is not at 9lbs anymore.
> 
> [edit] Just noticed your screen name. Doc GTO...I know I've heard that name before. I think my friend must have talked about/to a Doc GTO that posts at a Mustang forum. Unless there's two Doc GTOs



That's me! I moderate on stangnet and post a lot on svtperformance. I'm sure your friend is putting down some real god power but 440 to the ground is really up there. If he got it dynotuned then he should have a dyno sheet! I do . . . Anyone putting down good power will frame that baby! He may be putting that down but I'd say it's a stretch with the factory auto. I would say bring it to the track and run it. With that power he should be in the high 11s-low 12s with traction.

For you to take him I would say put on a CAI, shorties and front pipes or LTs, install a 100 dry shot and then get it dynotuned for it. You should be making about 450-460 no problem. That would not cost a lot of $$$ and you would be high 11s for sure!


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

Doc GTO said:


> That's me! I moderate on stangnet and post a lot on svtperformance. I'm sure your friend is putting down some real god power but 440 to the ground is really up there. If he got it dynotuned then he should have a dyno sheet! I do . . . Anyone putting down good power will frame that baby! He may be putting that down but I'd say it's a stretch with the factory auto. I would say bring it to the track and run it. With that power he should be in the high 11s-low 12s with traction.
> 
> For you to take him I would say put on a CAI, shorties and front pipes or LTs, install a 100 dry shot and then get it dynotuned for it. You should be making about 450-460 no problem. That would not cost a lot of $$$ and you would be high 11s for sure!


I'll add a dynotune and LTs to the options that I already have...later, I'll either go with a NA'd Lingenfelter package, maybe the 403 package...might even go with the 455 package that Big_Mike was talking about a few days ago. But that's after I get the car paid for, and only if I'm tired of having the 6.0 and how it's optioned.

If I do that, I'll still get beat by the Mustang GT, I fear. 

He's already talking about MPH and letting them do a TT set-up. He's got the advantage because his car has been paid for a year or so already. Oh well...


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2005)

the package I was referring to can be found here:

http://www.motorsporttech.com/print/mti_455gto_brochure01.html

*605 HORSEPOWER...610 FOOT POUNDS OF TORQUE*


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

big_mike said:


> the package I was referring to can be found here:
> 
> http://www.motorsporttech.com/print/mti_455gto_brochure01.html
> 
> *605 HORSEPOWER...610 FOOT POUNDS OF TORQUE*



Bookmarked!!! 

*drool*


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2005)

yeah man!


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

*Off Topic*



big_mike said:


> make ME smile? not many older women make me smile.....Kinda dig chics in their 20's and 30's.....not 40's! lol


Here's an older women 

http://www.stimme.de/storage/pic/eigenebilder/verschiedenes/371390_ornella-muti.gif


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2005)

nice implants, but still not my speed.

NOW THIS ONE IS !!!!!!!!!!!!

http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc53&image=858_Patricia_Heaton_ELR_9x14_014.jpg


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

*Off Topic*



big_mike said:


> nice implants, but still not my speed.
> 
> NOW THIS ONE IS !!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc53&image=858_Patricia_Heaton_ELR_9x14_014.jpg


I like.

And Ornella Muti doesn't have implants. I've seen too many of her movies, from early roles to the more recent ones. She's just perfect. 

"Swann In Love" would be a good movie to rent.


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## fat nick (Aug 21, 2005)

ModBoss2 said:


> Hope this thread doesn't make you roll your eyes. Just lookin' for info for some mods that I'll probably do in a year or so.
> 
> Got a friend with a big mouth and a Kenne Bell 4.6 GT It's a 2002 Automatic Mustang GT:
> 4.10 gears
> ...


Is he running a stall in it and what kind of rpm, also what type of tires as this will make a good difference as well. I'd say with a nice stall, sticky tires, and 31 spline he should be good for a 12.30 give or take. Local guy with a vortech s/c intercooled I believe with 13psi and a 2800 stall was in the high 11's. A full bolt-on auto GT stalled with DR's will run around a 13.10-13.20 with a set of light cams. No stall and no cams on a bolt-on GT will be lucky to break 13.70. Trust me I had a full bolt-on 03 GT auto.

I'd say he would be around 410whp or so though.

Take your car and put on some exhaust, cam, tune, and DR's and go beat him. That imo is all you should need, especially if you want to run him from a roll.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

fat nick said:


> Is he running a stall in it and what kind of rpm, also what type of tires as this will make a good difference as well. I'd say with a nice stall, sticky tires, and 31 spline he should be good for a 12.30 give or take. Local guy with a vortech s/c intercooled I believe with 13psi and a 2800 stall was in the high 11's. A full bolt-on auto GT stalled with DR's will run around a 13.10-13.20 with a set of light cams. No stall and no cams on a bolt-on GT will be lucky to break 13.70. Trust me I had a full bolt-on 03 GT auto.
> 
> I'd say he would be around 410whp or so though.
> 
> Take your car and put on some exhaust, cam, tune, and DR's and go beat him. That imo is all you should need, especially if you want to run him from a roll.



A full bolt-on w/ DR will get him about the same numbers as me, if I were stock? I checked him out on the way home from work last night.  I just installed my new CAI and was feelin' froggy. 

At about 65mph I dropped it to 4th but his car just walked right past me. @#&%!!

Oh well...

W/O DRs his car is crazy! I was in it when he punched it @ about 35mph. The KB lit up his new Toyos, car kept trying to get sideways on us, and he finally backed-off of the throttle @ 55 or 60mph when he figured out that it was still smokin the tires and trying to slide sideways.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

at 65 you went to 4th??? You should have put it in THIRD !!! hell, go for second and powershift that bamma to 3rd with all your might!!

No wonder he left ya.....


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

big_mike said:


> at 65 you went to 4th??? You should have put it in THIRD !!! hell, go for second and powershift that bamma to 3rd with all your might!!
> 
> No wonder he left ya.....


I'm not ready to buy a new powertrain.  

Seriously, I'm still not real comfortable with this shifter yet. I even forget that I have a 6th gear at times 

I thought going down to 4th was about right...figured 3rd at 65 would be too much for me.

I logged 85,000 miles on my last car. It had a 5-speed w/ a short-throw. It was a lot more precise.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

ok, I know I dont have one but have seen quite a few videos where guys are racing these cars and at 65, they are almost at the top of 2nd so 3rd would have been a perfect gear! Next time he wants to run, go from a 50 roll, have it in SECOND, and see what happens. It will be a LOT closer, believe that.


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## Doc GTO (Nov 29, 2005)

At this time he has you by 300 pounds and at least 70 more rwhp so any racing would be moot for you. Drop in a 100 dry shot and a dyno tune and lets see who's the man!


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

2nd would have been perfect then he might (probably) have not walked on ya


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

or at least, not as bad.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

At 65 I'm at the top of 2nd....... you could have easily (and safely) go to third.... ask him to run you again!


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

run from 45-50 so you can utilize your 2nd gear, its more of a power gear than third.

your second is geared at 1.78 but third is only 1.3 so you want to get him from a 2nd gear roll, whereas his second is 2.07 and third is 1.43. So he already is geared better than you all around. You need EVERY advantage you can get.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

GTODEALER said:


> At 65 I'm at the top of 2nd....... you could have easily (and safely) go to third.... ask him to run you again!


Maybe after I get those LTs from you and a dyno tune...by then, if he's still making short work of me I'll come and get some advice for some easy bolt-ons. I'll want to keep it NA'd, always. b.t.w. Are intake and TB swaps worth it [any loss of torque or any noticable HP gains?], or is it best to wait and do that along with heads, cam, injectors, etc...?

Thanks.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

*trying REAL hard not to answer*


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

big_mike said:


> *trying REAL hard not to answer*


Why? To answer your question, any mod to help the car breathe will benefit, if I were you I would do it. :cheers


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

ModBoss2 said:


> Are intake and TB swaps worth it [any loss of torque or any noticable HP gains?], or is it best to wait and do that along with heads, cam, injectors, etc...?


the intake on these motors is good to about 600hp but thats pushing it. You need to upgrade to a better one once your over that mark for optimum flow. The MAF meter is good to about the same, and for the money your spending on upgrading those two, you could have had a cam and MUCH better gains and more usable rpm's !!!

So, to answer your question, you dont need to change those two items until your over 600hp!


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

I just realized what "intake" you were talking about.... I thought you meant CAI..... what a day. :willy:


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

the CAI is a good mod, but not the manifold...


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

GTODEALER said:


> I just realized what "intake" you were talking about.... I thought you meant CAI..... what a day. :willy:


Yeah, I was talking about intake manifold and throttle body.


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## ModBoss2 (Nov 13, 2005)

big_mike said:


> the CAI is a good mod, but not the manifold...


I like the CAI. Looks good and it took me a little under an hour and a half to install. I'm slow. The Borla cat-back should be here in a few days. It might not be as good a mod as the CAI but I couldn't resist those 5" tips 

I've never had Borla, so I wanted to give them a try, and w/ the LTs I figured it'd give me a good sound w/o being too loud.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2005)

you did see my post on page 4 right?


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