# Looking at a 65



## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site and have a couple questions. I have found a 1965 GTO 2 door HT 389/360 4spd Tri-Power 321? posi. It's from the original owner with PS,PB,A/C and 77000 miles. I have not seen the car yet but he (77 years old) says its in great shape and never hurt. He bought the car new here in Oklahoma and its always been parked in the garage. Its been sitting inside under a cover for 22 years and was running when parked. Its blue on blue. He says the interior is perfect. The only mods he has done is put speakers in the doors and added a sun tach and under the dash gauges. It has the center console that needs a new button on the door but thats it! I don't know much about these cars and i'm looking for a good place to start on price. He has no idea what its worth but I want to make him a FAIR offer. I'm going to look at it this weekend. He does not have the car for sale on the open market. He said I have first option. I found the car while looking for an old personalized tag I had years ago. He gave it up for me. 

Lets hear what you guys have to say.

Thanks, Alan


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Also, what should I look for as far as engine, trans and rearend codes?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

No such thing as a 321 Pontiac. It should be a 389, and the engine code should be WS if it's a tripower car. Also, the partial VIN should be on the transmission, on the passenger side. Very hard to see. Rear end codes, casting codes, etc., can be easily found online on various sites, like Wallace Racing. Post some pics and we can come up with an accurate price. Oftentimes cars that have been sitting have serious issues, such as frozen engines, bad brakes, etc. Let's hope not. I myself have a '65 GTO hardtop blue charcoal on blue, 4 spd tripower, and I've enjoyed it since 1982!. Again, PICS and we will be here to assist you.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

It is a 389/360 tri-power. The 321 was the rearend gear so he said. I don't know much about Pontiac rearends. I will post some pics this weekend. 

Thanks for the reply!


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

No 321 rears. Probably meant 3:23. If you can get the vin from him, you can send for the PHS to verify details of the car.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

1965 Pontiac GTO 2 Door Hardtop Value, Prices & Specs | NADAguides | NADA 1965 Pontiac GTO Book Value & 1965 Pontiac GTO Market Price


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## Downtownbrown (Sep 9, 2013)

A 65 GTO with the original 389 tripower, 4 speed, PS, PB and AC with low original miles is a very desirable car. And it also has a nice color combo.
Good Luck!


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## skurfan (Sep 19, 2012)

I would like to know how long it's been since the car was a regular driver. I had a similar experience with a 78 year old guy that parked it "a few years ago". The gas was mud, the tank needed replaced, radiator core was toast, water pump replaced, plug wires, hoses, and transmission rebuilt. Brakes, wheel cylinders and other misc needed replaced before I could enjoy it. Got all that done and love it. Point is.....check these things out because you are looking at probably 3k to get it back as a driver. Sounds like a valuable car that would be great to own, just factor all possibilities into your price. Good luck and if you don't take it, I would love to make the four hour drive and pick it up.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

I hear ya Skurfan. It's been sitting for over 20 years. I don't mind throwing 4-5 grand at the car once I get it. In case any of you are wondering, The car may or may not stay with me. My wife and I both have play cars so I really don't need another one. My dad (72 yrs. old) had one of these he bought new back in 65 so it may just be something I'll let him enjoy for a couple of years the put it back on the market. Thanks for all of the info. As I said, I really don't know muck about these cars. I;ll post some pics this weekend!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Well I bought the car today. I was incorrect on the miles, it's 72622! The car, after I washed off 22 years of dust is in much better shape than I thought. I haven't tried to start it yet but the motor turns over. When we pulled it out of the garage, there was only a quarter size oil spot on the floor. I would post a few pics, but I can't figure out how??? Any help???


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## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

click on the "advanced" option, then click on the paper clip attachment. Browse to your pictures and upload...


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

leeklm said:


> click on the "advanced" option, then click on the paper clip attachment. Browse to your pictures and upload...


I tried a couple of times today but they wouldn't upload. I'm on here as a free member, does that matter?:confused


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## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

Photos may be too large. Either turn down resolution on camera or use a viewer like Irfan View to reduce file size

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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

*Pictures*

Heres a few pics


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

leeklm said:


> Photos may be too large. Either turn down resolution on camera or use a viewer like Irfan View to reduce file size
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Thanks Leek!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Forgot the good one!


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*Sweet!!!*

Absolutely beautiful!!!


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

SDBA292 said:


> Heres a few pics


WOW! Nice find!





What's with all the people finding low mileage _Blue_ 65 GTO's lately?

Where's mine?!?:shutme Isn't this like the _*third*_ one this month????eek:


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

Looks like you have found a gem. Congrats !!


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

What did you end up giving for that beauty?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

WOW. That's an extremely nice, very highly optioned '65....Fontaine Blue/blue. With AC and Soft Ray glass all around...._Super_ nice car. Keep us updated!!


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Beautiful car! Congrats on finding that! :cheers


Now...get rid of that upper radiator hose.  I've never understood why people put flex hoses on for more than a temporary fix.


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## kremor (Dec 28, 2012)

You are so lucky! What are your plans for the car? Something that nice should stay like it is, you have a real gem there.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks for all the kind words! I feel very lucky to have the opportunity to own this caliber of car. Everything on the car will stay just as it is outside of normal maintanance items. I have purchased a carb rebuild kit, brakes, belts, hoses ect. The original paint is in great shape besides a few chips so i'm not even going to repaint the car. After I get it running, i'm sure it will develope a few leaks so i'll probably go ahead and pull the motor and freshen it up...rings, bearings and gaskets! I have a local (GTO) guy coming over next weekend to give me an appraisal for my insurance. I also have the original steel wheels including the spare with the "original" red line tires on them from 1965! This is a once in a lifetime find!:cheers


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Whoa, there, SD!! Think twice before you pull the engine and tear it apart. A re-seal and paint job, ok, and perhaps a timing chain. But at your mileage, it 's overkill to do an overhaul. I overhauled my '67 at 173,000 miles, and I should have just done a valve job. Everything else was in spec. Keep in mind that once it's torn down and the car is not running, it is very easy to start 'improving' things to the point of where the car is no longer a survivor and is now just another fixed up GTO.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

^^^^^^ What he said. with the mileage on that car, there should be no need for a full re-ring and re-bearing. 

Again, beautiful car! What a find! It's encouraging to know those are still out there, isn't it?


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

I hear ya! I'll see how it sounds and runs after I rebuild the carbs and give her a good tune up!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

geeteeohguy said:


> Whoa, there, SD!! Think twice before you pull the engine and tear it apart. A re-seal and paint job, ok, and perhaps a timing chain. But at your mileage, it 's overkill to do an overhaul. I overhauled my '67 at 173,000 miles, and I should have just done a valve job. Everything else was in spec. Keep in mind that once it's torn down and the car is not running, it is very easy to start 'improving' things to the point of where the car is no longer a survivor and is now just another fixed up GTO.


So, you're saying a re-paint won't hurt the value of the car???


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Re-painting/touching up the ENGINE. NOT the car!!! Original paint cars are hot, and very rare in the condition yours is. I would not touch it other than to gently clean and wax it. I've owned a few original paint early GTO's, but none of them were nearly as nice as yours, and this was 30+ years ago, when the cars weren't that old. You have a real treasure there, seriously.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

geeteeohguy said:


> Re-painting/touching up the ENGINE. NOT the car!!! Original paint cars are hot, and very rare in the condition yours is. I would not touch it other than to gently clean and wax it. I've owned a few original paint early GTO's, but none of them were nearly as nice as yours, and this was 30+ years ago, when the cars weren't that old. You have a real treasure there, seriously.


Thanks for the clarification! I was starting to wonder about you on the "re-paint"...just kidding! I talked to a local GTO expert today (he has owned over 30). He has seen pics of my car and said he thought it was worth somewhere in the mid to upper $50's. Anyone on here agree??? He is coming over Friday to take a closer look. He also said to the right buyer it could go higher. I have the car insured at $50K. I have had several people asking what I paid for the car, all I will say is it was a shoe box full of $100 dollar bills!

Thanks for all of the help guy's!:cheers


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Value and worth is determined by what someone will actually pay, period. I missed out on a super clean original '66 ragtop a couple of years back that sold for 30k....it was easily a 50k car, IMO. Trying to _get_ 50-60k for an early GTO these days is tough. Do-able, but tough. I would have to see the car in person to make an accurate evaluation.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

I had an appraisal done yesterday. This guy has owned over 30 GTO's and in an expert on the cars. He pointed out several things that I was not aware of. This car is the best "original" GTO he has ever seen. It even has the original plug wires and all of the original hardware on the carbs and hose clamps. He gave me a written value at a selling price $62K. He also said he would insure the car at $75K because I would never be able to replace the car with one in the shape that this one is in. With that being said, I think I will enjoy it for the rest of the Summer and put a cover over it for a while!


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## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

Congrats sounds very nice. I assume you paid less than $62k? 

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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Yes, I paid less than that!!!
I'm going to go ahead and pull the motor this weekend to freshin it up. Any suggestions on where to buy original parts? I'm sure I can keep it standard bore and just do rings, bearings, oil pump, timeing chain, water pump and a valve job. Hopefully I can keep the crank standard. It has been sitting for 22 years. I have already rebuilt the distributor and the carbs. I'm also going to put a new gas tank in it but keep the original tank.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'll say this once more: I strongly recommend NOT tearing the engine down to the rings/bearings, etc. I'd do a compression test and leakdown test, and if ok (which I'm betting it is) just do a timing chain, core plugs, re-seal, and repaint. I wouldn't even pull the heads. If you tear the pistons out of it, you're looking at a total and uneccessary rebuild, IMO. Recently helped a friend complete a resto on a GTO that had been sitting 21 years, and the engine was fine. Trying to re-ring, re-hone and reassemble a standard bore original engine with original pistons and rods is wasted effort: you'll end up with a less than satisfactory end result. Leave it alone (my advice) or overhaul it properly: new pistons, overbore, machined crank, etc.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

I'm totally with Geetee on this one. There is almost no way you can improve on what you have providing the compression is good. I honestly believe the machining that the factory was able to provide (along with the cleanliness) can almost never be duplicated. Do a few diagnostics on it, then do the things he outlined and don't tear into it unless absolutely necessary.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Thanks for the support, Chucka. I learned this one over the years by experience. Medium mileage OEM engines, no matter how old they are, if running well, tend to keep on running well. Ring-and-bearing quickie freshen-ups are generally a downgrade, not an upgrade, although most inexperienced folks think otherwise.


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## Iras67 (Jun 20, 2013)

*finding GTO's*

I am flabbergasted every time I come to this site in the last few months and see the "new to the public" GTO's that folks find. Everyone talks about the barn find but most people are full of it. I have seen at least 5 great pieces of history unveiled here over the last few months and it is fantastic. Good luck with the car and thanks for preserving it. How many more are out there????:cheers


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## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

geeteeohguy said:


> Thanks for the support, Chucka. I learned this one over the years by experience. Medium mileage OEM engines, no matter how old they are, if running well, tend to keep on running well. Ring-and-bearing quickie freshen-ups are generally a downgrade, not an upgrade, although most inexperienced folks think otherwise.


Amen to that. There seems to something different with tolerances and/or materials that is never quite the same as a factory street motor.

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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

All of the cylinders checked between 135-140. The bad thing it I have no oil pressure so I had to pull the motor. The timing chain was stretched pretty bad so I am replacing it. There is almost no ridge on the cylinder walls. The cam mic's almost perfect. I know most of you will disagree but I feel better about checking everything out before I drive the car. I'm going to have the motor vatted and new cam bearings installed. I will also do a valve job, rings and bearings. Then enjoy!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

I'm doing it right. Should be back together next weekend.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

geeteeohguy said:


> Thanks for the support, Chucka. I learned this one over the years by experience. Medium mileage OEM engines, no matter how old they are, if running well, tend to keep on running well. Ring-and-bearing quickie freshen-ups are generally a downgrade, not an upgrade, although most inexperienced folks think otherwise.


If you guys think I'm inexperienced...You're incorrect! I have built, raced and restored cars and boats for over 30 years! This is just the first GTO and original car I have ever wanted to keep original! I won't enjoy a car unless I know the motor is to my standards!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

This car will be back together next weekend. Then it is going to be sold after it first show Oct. 20th in Edmond,OK hosted by the Central Oklahoma Pontiac Association. I found another car and bought it. Can't keep them all...it sucks! I already have a couple of guys interested so if you want to make an offer PM me!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

*Assembly Day!*

Ready to go in the paint booth.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Back in the car Wed.


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## 646904GTO (Feb 10, 2008)

I'm surprised you didn't put a Ross hyper-utectic dished piston in it so it will run on todays fuel.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

I put the factory spec pistons in it. Running 91 plus boost. It's running GREAT!!!


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Car is heading to it's new owner in Missouri tonight! It was a lot of fun to work on and drive this excellent car!


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## Knuckledragger (Nov 25, 2011)

Although I assume you made a lot of money on the sale, you really ruined the value by rebuilding the engine unnecessarily. If it had all of the original wiring, hoses, clamps and such, it was more of a museum piece than a spec car. The original engine paint is not easy to duplicate and you didn't seem even to try.

What you did was like being so proud of winning a gold medal that you had it bronzed.


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

Knuckledragger said:


> Although I assume you made a lot of money on the sale, you really ruined the value by rebuilding the engine unnecessarily. If it had all of the original wiring, hoses, clamps and such, it was more of a museum piece than a spec car. The original engine paint is not easy to duplicate and you didn't seem even to try.
> 
> What you did was like being so proud of winning a gold medal that you had it bronzed.


You may want to get ALL of the facts before you open your big mouth! The motor had NO oil pressure. It had not been started for 22 years and the oil pump was junked up. There was .012 ridge in the bore so it was best to go through it. It's a good thing I tore it down and did a CORRECT and COMPLTE build on the motor retaining the factory cam, rods and valves. This is not my first classic to work on! The paint is from Eastwood and is correct for a 65.
(66 is a different color). As far as the wires, they are being rebuilt by Taylor in KC. I retained all of the original clamps "and such"! This car went to a private collector that was very happy with the outcome of the car. That's really all that matters to me. I really don't know why I feel I need to explain this to you but, some people just don't get it!!! :seeya


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

SDBA292 said:


> Back in the car Wed.


Quick question... In the picture of the engine all taped up on the stand... Is that a Chevy truck frame sitting behind it? Looks familiar, but I can't see very much of it in the pic. Just curious.

Chuck


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## SDBA292 (Sep 9, 2013)

chuckha62 said:


> Quick question... In the picture of the engine all taped up on the stand... Is that a Chevy truck frame sitting behind it? Looks familiar, but I can't see very much of it in the pic. Just curious.
> 
> Chuck


Yes, It's a 1969 Chevy swb. I'm doing a complete frame off on it.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

SDBA292 said:


> Yes, It's a 1969 Chevy swb. I'm doing a complete frame off on it.


Nice! I'm just finishing a complete frame off on a '72 Stepside.


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## 60sstuff (Jul 15, 2011)

*Very Nice 65*

Cool to see another one surface!

It looks like your valve covers are on backwards.


So what factory did it come from and what is the build date (aluminum cowl tag on firewall)?

THX!


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