# This is bullsh_t!



## TucsonGTO (Feb 28, 2005)

I don't condone any street racing, but two days ago a damn rice burner Civic wanted to race. Of course, I had nothing better to do then teach this guy a lesson. So I beat him out of the hole, but then this damn Civic caught up to me around third gear and stayed with me the rest of the way until we both slowed down. I don't think I heard him spraying or heard any turbos but what the heck? :willy: 

It was a hatchback of some sort, anyways... I was pretty shocked that something like that could have even kept up. Do I need to be weary of these cars? I am assuming because they are so light, and that couldnt have been a stock motor he was running. His license plate said B18C5HB, what ever the heck that means, maybe ya'll know.

Still love my GTO and never looking back.

Cheers!


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## BigJim (Oct 30, 2004)




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## chris8299s (Dec 15, 2004)

do you have an '04 or '05?


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## SasdawgGTO (Nov 10, 2004)

He had a B18 engine in his car, this is one of the faster rice rocket engines that you can put into a light weight car like that, so its likely he had a high amount of power coming out of that little car, and thats why he was keeping up. Ive had the same **** happen to me before to, and it scared me stiff that that little piece of crap hung with my GTO!


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## Whiteshadow (Sep 28, 2004)

yup, I must agree. My old Civic could probably beat my GTO as it stands for now... It's all about the power to weight ratio.. my motor would've dynoed somewhere around 200whp, in a 2100lb Civic. My GTO weighs over 4000, and dynos arouned 275-280whp. 

Don't worry, highway pulls are where it's at!


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## GNX231 (Dec 12, 2004)

the problem is all the gto's 04 05 have a system that won't allow the car to accelerate faster than what it's programed to ( this is big brother at it's best ) so even is your car had a 700 horse motor it won't be a 9 sec car till you have the computer reprogramed.


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## Baron Samedi (Oct 22, 2004)

GNX231 said:


> the problem is all the gto's 04 05 have a system that won't allow the car to accelerate faster than what it's programed to ( this is big brother at it's best ) so even is your car had a 700 horse motor it won't be a 9 sec car till you have the computer reprogramed.



What ARE you talking about? Traction control? That you can turn off.


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## Snafu (Aug 27, 2004)

I think maybe he means torque mgmt...only exists for A4's...tune will take care of it.

No other super-secret government control device


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## ohpspe (Oct 14, 2004)

Having an 01 Grand Am, those little ricer engines are my #1 nemsis. The B18 engine in a Civic hatchback is going to keep up with a ton of cars. That's the problem with the AutoZone generation (nothing against AutoZone, I love any place that disposes of my used motor oil for free), the damn cars are so cheap you can drop a high power engine in the car. 

His plate probably means B18 engine, C5 (Corvette) Heart Breaker or if it was B18C5H8, then it's probably C5 hate. Damn 16 year olds.


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## 97GTP (Feb 8, 2005)

My roommate runs a B18C5 (1.8 litre DOHC vtec blah blah) in his integra. stock internals, full bolt-ons, 75 dry shot, and he is making 1/8m ETs good for high 12s on 205s street tread. Point being; you cant underestimate anything these days. I'd say that the guy was spraying.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

I wouldn't doubt these cars! I traded a consistent mid-12 second SRT-4 for my goat and the SRT-4 only had a few mods!! Be careful what you race. :cheers


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## ohpspe (Oct 14, 2004)

All I know is, I'm not pulling up to a GTO in my present ride, unless it's to give the thumbs up to the guy/gal.


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## TucsonGTO (Feb 28, 2005)

I own a 04'. I read everyones commments, so I feel a little better. His car was very loud and it did not sound like the usual fart can. Oh well.

CHEERS.


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## bnvus (Nov 19, 2004)

Spray!!!!


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## BigNick (Jan 7, 2005)

B18C5 is the engine from an Integra Type R.

Very high-revving, all top-end motor. Not a lot of torque down low, but a Civic Hatchback (or CRX) is a lightweight car. The VTEC engines don't take forced induction well due to a lot of cam overlap, but a 50-shot isn't out of the question.

I used to own a couple of CRXes. Wrecked one, and blew the motor in the other. Still have a piece of the rod around here somewhere.

Wouldn't trade my '04 GTO for anything (except another GTO) though.


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## GNX231 (Dec 12, 2004)

Baron Samedi said:


> What ARE you talking about? Traction control? That you can turn off.



no it's built into the computer and wire harness


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## Baron Samedi (Oct 22, 2004)

GNX231 said:


> no it's built into the computer and wire harness


There's a switch on the console to defeat the traction control. 

But I believe you're referring to "torque management" (whatever that is) which I understand is controlled by programming in the PCM. I'm told that too can be programmed out.


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## 2tirefire (Jul 29, 2004)

The B18C5 and B series are not the most potent motor that you can cram into the civics these days. Everyone is moving onto the new K series motors, which come in the Acura RSX type S. Put a 200HP (flywheel HP) into a 1700 lb Hatch with bolt ons and you have a mid 13 second street car that will molest a GTO. That guy was not spraying probably, if I were to speculate and going off my knowledge of being a Honda tuner for the last 5 years, I would say he was running a B series motor, since the K20A swap is about 6 g's complete. He probably had minor bolt ons I/H/E and that is about it. A GSR B18C1 motor in a HB is good for low 14's to high 13's on streets. The GTO is rated at about 13.8 or so in the 1/4 mile with a good driver in the 6 spd manual. I love racing you guys, I have only ran one '04 GTO in my Neon (SRT-4) on a freeway pull and stayed right next to him, until about 4th gear where he started to creep away. and both cars were bone stock. As said before it's all about power to weight ratio, or a forced induction motor, ah yes that is the best!!!


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## TucsonGTO (Feb 28, 2005)

*aHH..*

2tirefire you are right. I actually got to talk to the guy that I had raced last week. I saw him on base and asked him if he remembered racing me. He was very nice and explained what was in his car. He has a 92 Civic HB with a Japanes Type R tranny, motor, and a GSR head. He has a lot of bolt on parts and the car's motor and suspension have been professionally tuned. His car was seriously clean and very well built. I was very surprised about this Civic because most of what I see on the road are pure crap.

He told me that most don't suspect his car of being that fast and that's why he likes it, but he did give me props on my GTO. He is not running any nitrous, nor turbos, his car was all motor. Very nice Civic and a cool guy. Maybe when I see him next time I will ask for a ride and I will let you guys know.

Cheers :cheers


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## redgoat (Feb 28, 2005)

well i dont care what people do to those rice burners..or them old tangs...but as you always notice they have to go out and put on more stuff to out run a stock gto. so the way i look at it. let them spend all they want. for what they have in those cars they could have one nice goat.....


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

TucsonGTO said:


> 2tirefire you are right. I actually got to talk to the guy that I had raced last week. I saw him on base and asked him if he remembered racing me. He was very nice and explained what was in his car. He has a 92 Civic HB with a Japanes Type R tranny, motor, and a GSR head. He has a lot of bolt on parts and the car's motor and suspension have been professionally tuned. His car was seriously clean and very well built. I was very surprised about this Civic because most of what I see on the road are pure crap.
> 
> He told me that most don't suspect his car of being that fast and that's why he likes it, but he did give me props on my GTO. He is not running any nitrous, nor turbos, his car was all motor. Very nice Civic and a cool guy. Maybe when I see him next time I will ask for a ride and I will let you guys know.
> 
> Cheers :cheers


He sounds like a cool guy and just another car nut like all of us.


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## muohio (Sep 22, 2004)

I still remember how pissed a Mustang GT owner was when he tried to race my Mazdaspeed Protege that wasn't stock. All I have to say is that he gave me the finger, said some choice words, did a huge burnout at the next light, and then turned off. It was fun driving a car with 250whp that was small and light, but I would still rather have a GTO than go back.


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## 2tirefire (Jul 29, 2004)

redgoat said:


> well i dont care what people do to those rice burners..or them old tangs...but as you always notice they have to go out and put on more stuff to out run a stock gto. so the way i look at it. let them spend all they want. for what they have in those cars they could have one nice goat.....


Hmmmm....you sound like an ignorant old guy that babies his GTO. Stop being a hater and appreciate motor sports in a whole. I don't have to add anything to my car and stock to stock against a GTO you are not ahead of me by much.....maybe a fender??? And you have 4 more cylinders then me.....just a thought. Don't open your mouth before learning the facts dumby.


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

Im not defending the man in any way, but he is also pushing a few hundred lbs more that any rice burner. I have owned rice burners and muscle cars, each has its place in motor sports, that is why they run in different classes. Take a car and modify it enough and you can kill anything. The RX-7 is a fine example of that, buy the car, put a $15,000.00 3 rotor conversion in it and you are racing with the fastest cars in the world for under 50K, wether it is street or drag. There is no fair comparison between fwd, rwd, awd, 4, 6, 8 cylinder cars.


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## 2tirefire (Jul 29, 2004)

Braman'sGTO said:


> Im not defending the man in any way, but he is also pushing a few hundred lbs more that any rice burner. I have owned rice burners and muscle cars, each has its place in motor sports, that is why they run in different classes. Take a car and modify it enough and you can kill anything. The RX-7 is a fine example of that, buy the car, put a $15,000.00 3 rotor conversion in it and you are racing with the fastest cars in the world for under 50K, wether it is street or drag. There is no fair comparison between fwd, rwd, awd, 4, 6, 8 cylinder cars.


You seen the weight on an SRT-4 NEON?? Man my car weighs about 3100 lbs with me in it, so we are not that far away from the goat. The statement that he made was a blatent attempt to be a hater. He doesn't understand motorsports in a whole. Don't back the guy up for talking ish.


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## stucker (Sep 22, 2004)

2tirefire said:


> Hmmmm....you sound like an ignorant old guy that babies his GTO. Stop being a hater and appreciate motor sports in a whole. I don't have to add anything to my car and stock to stock against a GTO you are not ahead of me by much.....maybe a fender??? And you have 4 more cylinders then me.....just a thought. Don't open your mouth before learning the facts dumby.


No offence man, but it kind of sounds like you are hating on him for being prowd of his GTO. Anyways, he is talking about ricers and mustangs, your SRT-4 is neither. What he said is true though. The ricers have to add alot of AM parts to keep up with the GTO. As for the mustangs, the only ones that have any advantage on the Goat are the 03-04 SVT Cobras, which cost alot more than the GTO. 

By the way, I have raced an SRT-4 before. In the quarter they are close, but after about 100mph the SRT-4 starts to shrink to a tiny dot in the rear-view mirror. The SRT-4's are quick at lower speeds, but just don't have the horses to touch the 04 GTO's 160mph top speed. And I know that for a fact, I've seen the speedo read it twice. 

Don't get me wrong. I was impressed by the SRT-4, but I just love my Goat.


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## Braman'sGTO (Mar 14, 2005)

2tirefire said:


> You seen the weight on an SRT-4 NEON?? Man my car weighs about 3100 lbs with me in it, so we are not that far away from the goat. The statement that he made was a blatent attempt to be a hater. He doesn't understand motorsports in a whole. Don't back the guy up for talking ish.


I was at a SRT-4 dyno day a few weeks ago and was very impressed with them. They were consistantly putting 250 hp to the wheel. One of the guys took me for a ride in one and was even more impressed. I'll openly admit I was a neon hatter untill that point. However I still prefer RWD cars but thats just my opinion.


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

Wow some uninformed slinging going on. Just like every other forum on the internet. It's the same sh|t everywhere. Go to a WRX forum and talk crap about a focus...or go to an Acura and mention a SRT....whatever  
It gets tireing. Seems to me that with a huge V8 you guys should be talking about other cars that match your car better. Race some vetts, maybe an old FB or TA. There's no triumph in racing those 4 cyl cars. 

Hey I took out a toddler on a bike yesterday!

I'll say one thing, these gas prices stay the way they are or go up more, no way I'll be in a GTO. Just not praticle(sp) even though I really like them.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2005)

II-Savy said:


> Race some vetts, maybe an old FB or TA.


Won't happen.
They know their place in the food chain.


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## JuniorCruzer (Mar 28, 2005)

I would not mind racing a vette. Most don't like to loose. Totally understandable. I like to race to for the fun of racing. You win some, you loose some. I have made good friends over the years racing cars. That is what it is all about for me.

Jon


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## toolman (Jan 10, 2005)

2tirefire said:


> You seen the weight on an SRT-4 NEON?? Man my car weighs about 3100 lbs with me in it, so we are not that far away from the goat. The statement that he made was a blatent attempt to be a hater. He doesn't understand motorsports in a whole. Don't back the guy up for talking ish.



Read the specs on a stock srt-4 1320 in 14.8. Not that fast in stock form. So you bolt on a bigger turbo like a t-28 or a t3, now you are in the high 13's low 14's, then downpipe and larger injectors and the works, you will have a car approaching the 12's. But you have lost a lot of drivability, I know this because I have a Talon with big 28 turbo and much more(raced an srt4 and destroyed it) but driving it anywhere below 2800 rpm is no fun, and it now only gets 20 mpg on a good day. Plus you start stressing more on a drivetrain that was only meant to handle low 200 hp numbers and these little tuners do not last long making big hp numbers. By the way put 4 adaults in your srt4 and 4 adaults in a gto and race them, gto will school it!


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## toolman (Jan 10, 2005)

By the way the srt4 is 23% lighter and my gto weighs 4020 lbs with me in it.


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## toolman (Jan 10, 2005)

2tirefire said:


> Hmmmm....you sound like an ignorant old guy that babies his GTO. Stop being a hater and appreciate motor sports in a whole. I don't have to add anything to my car and stock to stock against a GTO you are not ahead of me by much.....maybe a fender??? And you have 4 more cylinders then me.....just a thought. Don't open your mouth before learning the facts dumby.


The 05 is roughly 2 seconds quicker in the 1320 than the srt4, this equates to roughly a lot more than a fender, more like a few dozen fenders. Know the facts before you speak it ruins your credibility!


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

toolman said:


> Read the specs on a stock srt-4 1320 in 14.8. Not that fast in stock form. So you bolt on a bigger turbo like a t-28 or a t3, now you are in the high 13's low 14's, then downpipe and larger injectors and the works, you will have a car approaching the 12's. But you have lost a lot of drivability, I know this because I have a Talon with big 28 turbo and much more(raced an srt4 and destroyed it) but driving it anywhere below 2800 rpm is no fun, and it now only gets 20 mpg on a good day. Plus you start stressing more on a drivetrain that was only meant to handle low 200 hp numbers and these little tuners do not last long making big hp numbers. By the way put 4 adaults in your srt4 and 4 adaults in a gto and race them, gto will school it!


I'm not sure where your getting your info....but.... I did a blow off valve, wastegate actuator, solid mounts, 3" exhaust w/o cat, stage 1 cpu (turns up fuel and turns off 02 codes), and slicks and went 12.5's CONSTISTANTLY!! Stock turbo and everything else costs less than 1800.00!! I love my goat but if you want to talk #'s and bang for your buck then you should lay off the SRT-4's!! BTW I still know many SRT-4 owners that would be more than happy to "school us GTO owners" but thats another argument!! :cheers


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## toolman (Jan 10, 2005)

According to my et calculator 12.5 in an srt4 is 314 whp, that is an awfull lot for just those kind of mods.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

I have time slips and its actually 323 whp, have dyno sheet as well.... I have heard your kind of argument time and time again and that is mainly why I purchased the SRT-4, I wanted to prove a point... my goal was 12's and I achieved it at a very conservative price! I owned the car for 6.5 months and traded for IMO a nicer car, I don't want to ruffle feathers but come on man you can't disprove these cars just because they are pushin' 4 cylinders!! My car for instance bone stock ran an 9.0 1/8th mile time (never got a chance to run 1/4 mile stock) and the goat ran 8.9 stock in the 1/8th!! To say that a SRT-4 wouldn't outrun a GTO is ludacris! I'll defend both sides of the fence but when your wrong your wrong! :cheers
BTW, I can give you contact info for about 15 different SRT-4's w/ very similar mods that I had runnin' the same times!! Those cars thrive off of simple mods!


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## TexasRealtor (Oct 4, 2004)

Any problems with torque steer with that much power?


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

More than you could imagine! :lol: It was a handfull at the track!


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

C'mon guys lay-off the SRTs and WRXs and STis and every other blown four banger. It has been and always will be much, much easier to hop-up a turbo motor than an NA. Simplistically speaking (of course), it's just "turn up the boost, cringe and stand back" then wait to see how long the jolies last (and then at some point probably cry over the vented block). It's like they have a built-in lower potency NOS. 

Turbos are great one quarter mile at a time. But, in an every day world of wanting to take advantage of that hole that opens up in the traffic for just a split second, or any other situation where you don't have the luxury of anticipation or even the desire to keep the thing screaming at an unsympathetic 5 grand +, I'll take a nice high compression AMERICAN V8 ANYDAY! However, this could be like arguing over color preferences, so . . .

By the way if the SRT-4 was RWD it would have much more respect from me, not because it's not fast, it most definitely is, but personally I just never did like FWD cars. To me they always felt, how should I say this best . . . DISPOSABLE!


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

It's funny how people make comments that aren't 100% true.

"But, in an every day world of wanting to take advantage of that hole that opens up in the traffic for just a split second, or any other situation where you don't have the luxury of anticipation or even the desire to keep the thing screaming at an unsympathetic 5 grand +,"

This statment is just wrong in so many ways. 5+ grand? I hit full boost WAY before that. In normal driving or on the highway all it takes it a small stab of the throttle and I'm off. The size of the turbo and engine make the most difference. As far as anticipation goes, you always have to be on your toes driving. You should always be anticipating what other drivers are doing no matter what you drive. 

....and this crap about respecting RWD cars more.....I'm not sure I understand that. I respect my wife for having my son and watching everything in amazment....those are the things I respect.


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

PWR_SHIFT said:


> C'mon guys lay-off the SRTs and WRXs and STis and every other blown four banger. It has been and always will be much, much easier to hop-up a turbo motor than an NA. Simplistically speaking (of course), it's just "turn up the boost, cringe and stand back" then wait to see how long the jolies last (and then at some point probably cry over the vented block). It's like they have a built-in lower potency NOS.
> 
> Turbos are great one quarter mile at a time. But, in an every day world of wanting to take advantage of that hole that opens up in the traffic for just a split second, or any other situation where you don't have the luxury of anticipation or even the desire to keep the thing screaming at an unsympathetic 5 grand +, I'll take a nice high compression AMERICAN V8 ANYDAY! However, this could be like arguing over color preferences, so . . .
> 
> By the way if the SRT-4 was RWD it would have much more respect from me, not because it's not fast, it most definitely is, but personally I just never did like FWD cars. To me they always felt, how should I say this best . . . DISPOSABLE!


If you do things correctly you won't "vent" the block, and why would you start a statement "C'mon guys lay off........" just to start back in on them the next sentence? This is the last post on this thread for me, but I just had to ask. I don't understand this argument and never will, 4 cyl vs 8 cyl, no matter how hard you try there will always be a "guy with a x cyl thats faster", it doesn't matter who you are, or how much money you have. For Gods sake just let this rest....


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I for one have been finding this thread entertaining...and would _kill_ to see the look on some of these rice-basher's faces when a WRX STi or Evo hands the more fanatical hard-over pushrod V8 fanbois their collective a#ses... 

Looks something like this, methinks:









Those are to be respected. Not my cup o' java at all, but still...they be _very_ quick. Be sure.


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## II-Savy (Jan 12, 2005)

GTODEALER said:


> If you do things correctly you won't "vent" the block, and why would you start a statement "C'mon guys lay off........" just to start back in on them the next sentence? This is the last post on this thread for me, but I just had to ask. I don't understand this argument and never will, 4 cyl vs 8 cyl, no matter how hard you try there will always be a "guy with a x cyl thats faster", it doesn't matter who you are, or how much money you have. For Gods sake just let this rest....


 :agree 
It all comes down to power to weight. Period.
2/3/4/5/8/10 V-whatever doesn't matter.


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## toolman (Jan 10, 2005)

II-Savy said:


> :agree
> It all comes down to power to weight. Period.
> 2/3/4/5/8/10 V-whatever doesn't matter.


Nail on the head.


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

GTODEALER said:


> If you do things correctly you won't "vent" the block, and why would you start a statement "C'mon guys lay off........" just to start back in on them the next sentence? This is the last post on this thread for me, but I just had to ask. I don't understand this argument and never will, 4 cyl vs 8 cyl, no matter how hard you try there will always be a "guy with a x cyl thats faster", it doesn't matter who you are, or how much money you have. For Gods sake just let this rest....


On the contrary, I wasn't bashing. Just expressing personal preferences. Also, would never say that they aren't fast, and wouldn't take one for granted; just not my cup of tea that's all. The point I was really trying to make is that it's all a matter of taste, it's just that mine lies with an bigger NA motor, rather than a smaller FI one. I personally like instant response, not the "squeeze, wait, ah too late, bam, holy crap we're flying" type. I also do not care for FWD torque-steer (which you get with every even moderately quick FWD car), what can I say? Take no offense . . . Ain't nuttin' but a taste tang. 

I do recognize that some cars just can't fit a big enough motor from the get go, so the turbo becomes the only viable option for going really fast, so in that case I'd take it, but . . . 

BTW, I've had a few turbo cars of my own, and one of those turbo jobbies that you feel is being unfairly lambasted has my own personal stamp on it, so I'm glad you like 'em. :seeya:


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