# Tires and wheels



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi all knowing and great GTO restorers/owners,

I have a 69 GTO which I purchased with 245x60x15 tires and 15 inch wheels with a JW code (originally from a Firebird I believe). My research has led me to a crossroads. I'm trying to put it back to original stock condition from the factory so I found out these tires and wheels are wrong (I also have a front tire rub when turning). So now it looks like eventually I'll be changing tires and wheels. My original build sheet and invoice show G78x14 wheels and WW fiberglass tires.

I've read in the GTO restoration guide that my car would have come with 14x6 wheels (G78x14) with a JA code (disc brakes) or JC code (drum brakes). My car has factory power brakes so the code would be JA.

My questions are, what should I expect to pay for the proper wheels in the proper condition which in my case requires them to be pretty nice. Also are there any caveats I need to look for when shopping for them and what is an except able replacement tire for the WW fiberglass tires?

Thanks in advance to all for your help, Dan


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Finding the correct wheels in very good condition will be plenty spendy. I would venture to guess in the $100 each range or more. The important part is that they are still round and don't wobble. Buying used wheels long distance and therefore, sight unseen, is risky. You may want to look at restorable wheels and have them restored too. 

Coker has replacement fiberglass tires but if you've never driven a car with belted tires, be in for a shock. They handle like sheet compared to radials. They do have look-a-like radials too which are better but they are all expensive.

The reason you have a front rub now is the 245 is too wide on the front. 235 is about the limit and I like 215x65 for a front tire. It brings the tread width down to around 6-6.5 inches and the 65 series sidewall gets the height back up some to look right. In your case, you will be looking for a 70 series. I think 205 or the 215 is the equivalent of the G78.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Too Many Projects said:


> Finding the correct wheels in very good condition will be plenty spendy. I would venture to guess in the $100 each range or more. The important part is that they are still round and don't wobble. Buying used wheels long distance and therefore, sight unseen, is risky. You may want to look at restorable wheels and have them restored too.
> 
> Coker has replacement fiberglass tires but if you've never driven a car with belted tires, be in for a shock. They handle like sheet compared to radials. They do have look-a-like radials too which are better but they are all expensive.
> 
> The reason you have a front rub now is the 245 is too wide on the front. 235 is about the limit and I like 215x65 for a front tire. It brings the tread width down to around 6-6.5 inches and the 65 series sidewall gets the height back up some to look right. In your case, you will be looking for a 70 series. I think 205 or the 215 is the equivalent of the G78.


Thanks for the reply! I've been watching your projects posts, you are way worse than I am with too many projects. 

I found a matched set of (3) near perfect 14 inch wheels with JA code so clear you can see without squinting for $45 each!!!! If I wanted the lighter gray color they would already be done color wise so I'll just need to repaint them. Best of all they are located 20 mms from the house! This guy has 10 66/67 GTOs in varying stages of restore, 4 of them rare convertibles!!! I guess he has more wheels that he needs - he has part all over the place!!!!

My spare is 225 x 70 x 14 and looks about right next to the car. 245 is definitely too big... While I look for a forth wheel I'll investigate the tire situation - when I get my new wheels and tires set up I'll have to sell the old ones. I'm hoping I don't have too much trouble selling them as a set (they are in very good condition). I have driven a belted tire before so I'll probably stick to radials.

Thanks again too many projects. I appreciate your reply! Dan


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## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

I just bought a '67 and the guy I bought it from put some expensive radial red line tires on it. I actually want to switch to BF Goodrich Radial T/A's and plan to sell the red lines. I plan to work on it some this weekend, if you're interested I can let you know what size they are.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sending PM...


chainboy1 said:


> I just bought a '67 and the guy I bought it from put some expensive radial red line tires on it. I actually want to switch to BF Goodrich Radial T/A's and plan to sell the red lines. I plan to work on it some this weekend, if you're interested I can let you know what size they are.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ok, I found some OE 14" x 6" wheels for a great price - the guy didn't realize what he had. When I picked them up he even told me "I should be charging more for these but I'll honor the price I posted." 

Three are in great shape with the JA code (for disc break cars), one is in ok shape with a JC code (for drum brake cars). I'll get all four blasted and paint them. I already have the stencil kit.

I'm looking to use the JC wheel (which will be in great shape when I'm done with it) as trade bate for another JA wheel in similar shape.

My question now is, do you guys have suggestions for tires - brand or model? I know the popular tire back then was Firehawk but they are not longer made. I plan to get radials in either 215/75 or 225/70 size.

I found this site, I have not verified what it says yet, showing a conversion for all the old referenced sizes.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Personally, I wouldn't do anything with the JC wheel. Once you spend the money to restore it, the new owner may need to strip it and start all over to get a paint match to his other wheels.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Too Many Projects said:


> Personally, I wouldn't do anything with the JC wheel. Once you spend the money to restore it, the new owner may need to strip it and start all over to get a paint match to his other wheels.


True but if I can't find a JA wheel in the meantime I'll have to wait to change my tires. They could have it blasted again if they want to change colors... and it won't cost much. A local shop will blast mine for $12 each... paint will be same cost for 3 or 4 wheels, five with the spare. Speaking of which I could use the JC as a spare and find another JA... hmmm


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> True but if I can't find a JA wheel in the meantime I'll have to wait to change my tires. They could have it blasted again if they want to change colors... and it won't cost much. A local shop will blast mine for $12 each... paint will be same cost for 3 or 4 wheels, five with the spare. Speaking of which I could use the JC as a spare and find another JA... hmmm


Now you're thinking...no wasted money...:thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yes indeed! I guess a blind nut does find a squirrel once in a while. 

(yes I know that's backassward)


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> Yes indeed! I guess a blind nut does find a squirrel once in a while.
> 
> (yes I know that's backassward)


Huh ??? what you talkin' bout ?? My dyslexia read that just fine until you pointed it out. NOW I'm confused....:willy:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Too Many Projects said:


> Huh ??? what you talkin' bout ?? My dyslexia read that just fine until you pointed it out. NOW I'm confused....:willy:


So am I I I I I I :tongue:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Too Many Projects said:


> Now you're thinking...no wasted money...:thumbsup:


Well not so fast... I haven't tried yet but I think the JC wheels won't work on the front of my disc brake car... the interior dimensions between the two coded wheels is very different, I'll try it on the front of my car and post some pictures later. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I got around to posting my tires and wheels for sale on CL and they were sold in less than an hour!!!! Now I need to get my wheels cleaned and prepared for new shoes!!! That was way faster than I ever imagined!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> Well not so fast... I haven't tried yet but I think the JC wheels won't work on the front of my disc brake car... the interior dimensions between the two coded wheels is very different, I'll try it on the front of my car and post some pictures later. Dan


Use the JC wheel as the spare. if you have a flat on the front, move a rear forward and put the spare on the rear. 

Or just call a roll-off and have it hauled home...:lol:



dan woodland said:


> I got around to posting my tires and wheels for sale on CL and they were sold in less than an hour!!!! Now I need to get my wheels cleaned and prepared for new shoes!!! That was way faster than I ever imagined!


I hate it when that happens. I always feel I sold them too cheap then...:cryin:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Good point... thx.



Too Many Projects said:


> Use the JC wheel as the spare. if you have a flat on the front, move a rear forward and put the spare on the rear.
> 
> Or just call a roll-off and have it hauled home...:lol:
> 
> ...


Yea, I thought the same thing but I will end up with new tires, wheels blasted and painted, new interior detail parts, and a rebuilt rear end for the money I got for them... add in the "new to me" wheels and I'm not out of pocket much at all :bannanaI'll sell a few old truck parts and make that up too  ).


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm in the same situation you're in. Found a set of two JT (1970 disc brake) and three JC wheels. From what I've read, the JT is identical to the JA other than the date. If that's not correct I'd be interested in knowing. Planning to buy the BFG Silvertown Coker redlines, but hung up between the 225/70-14 or the 215/70-14. Have a set of Michelin 225/55/17's on the car now and the fronts rub when I turn. I went and had my five wheels sand blasted and powder coated silver. Have the paint to do the faces the correct colors. Would be curious to know what others have on their '68's.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Mikesan said:


> I'm in the same situation you're in. Found a set of two JT (1970 disc brake) and three JC wheels. From what I've read, the JT is identical to the JA other than the date. If that's not correct I'd be interested in knowing. Planning to buy the BFG Silvertown Coker redlines, but hung up between the 225/70-14 or the 215/70-14. Have a set of Michelin 225/55/17's on the car now and the fronts rub when I turn. I went and had my five wheels sand blasted and powder coated silver. Have the paint to do the faces the correct colors. Would be curious to know what others have on their '68's.


The 225 will look better and fit just fine with the factory wheel. The reason the 17's rub is that the wheels are too wide for the front....usually around 9" wide. With ~4.5" of back space, there just isn't room for a wheel that wide in there. I have 225/70 tires on 15x7 rally II's on my '67 and they have plenty of clearance.


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

That's what I was hoping to hear. I much prefer to put a 225 on there than a 215. Thanks.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Mikesan said:


> I'm in the same situation you're in. Found a set of two JT (1970 disc brake) and three JC wheels. From what I've read, the JT is identical to the JA other than the date. If that's not correct I'd be interested in knowing. Planning to buy the BFG Silvertown Coker redlines, but hung up between the 225/70-14 or the 215/70-14. Have a set of Michelin 225/55/17's on the car now and the fronts rub when I turn. I went and had my five wheels sand blasted and powder coated silver. Have the paint to do the faces the correct colors. Would be curious to know what others have on their '68's.


I went with 225/70 14... I think the other OEM size is 215x75 14 which corresponds to about the same tire height. I wanted to go with the G7814 referenced on my build sheet.

I used this site to help.

Vintage Tire Size Conversion Chart - Vintage Car Connection - Old tire sizes

As Too Many Projects said, you should be good with what you are looking to get.

Dan


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

Great chart. It likes either the 215/75-14 or 225/70-14 for the G78 x 14. For '68 my car came with G77 x 14. You're not in Woodland, CA are you?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Mikesan said:


> Great chart. It likes either the 215/75-14 or 225/70-14 for the G78 x 14. For '68 my car came with G77 x 14. You're not in Woodland, CA are you?


You are the third person here to ask me that...  No, I'm in Ohio.

I found tires, wheels and trim rings. They are now on the car!!!





She's not as stable as she was on the 245x15s but it is a blast to drive like this!

At 100 on the highway this afternoon she stuck to the road and didn't waver so my suspension and rear end rebuilds are officially tested now. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

Looks good. I have BFG TA radials on my 68 Mustang and love the look of them. They are the only white letter tires I like the look of. Tempted to put them on my GTO, but the car came with redlines and have to go that way. Ordered one 225/70-14 from Summit a couple days ago. I need to paint the wheels and get the tire put on. Don't forget a set of center caps to finish the wheel off. I've been buying them on ebay. I asked about "Woodland" because there is one here in Yolo county Calif where I am.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I have the center caps from the old wheels, I just haven't had time to install them yet.  I wanted to clean and polish them with Blue Magic. Probably this weekend.

I've been to Woodland, CO a few times... I love CO, a beautiful place, except for all the dang snow!

I almost went with redlines but mine came with the standard whitewalls and I like the look a bit better than the redlines. After I melt these tires I can always go redline later. :laugh:

With all the coats of paint and five colors (primer, interior gray, silver argent, black and dark gray) it will take you a long time to paint them. I highly recommend getting them blasted to ensure you start with a really clean surface. I used acetone to wipe them down and remove my hand oils from handling them.

I painted my interior sections with black rustoleum... the backsides with Valspar Rust killer, and self etching primer under all of it.



I painted the black first (figured I would overlap into the black from the back and front), then the back and then the fronts. Surprisingly, the overspray from front to back was minimal.

have fun. 



Mikesan said:


> Looks good. I have BFG TA radials on my 68 Mustang and love the look of them. They are the only white letter tires I like the look of. Tempted to put them on my GTO, but the car came with redlines and have to go that way. Ordered one 225/70-14 from Summit a couple days ago. I need to paint the wheels and get the tire put on. Don't forget a set of center caps to finish the wheel off. I've been buying them on ebay. I asked about "Woodland" because there is one here in Yolo county Calif where I am.


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm lazier than you! I had mine blasted and powder coated a color called heavy silver for $60/wheel for five wheels. Looks like a standard silver painted wheel. Bought one of the Ames or PY kits with the argent and charcoal paint and stencils. Will just do the faces and leave the backs as they are. Good enough for me. Need to get one done as i have that single redline tire coming from Summit any day now. Want to put it on and fit it before getting the other 4. Only thing missing is a set of correct trim rings. Bought a set on ebay, but not happy with them. Need to return. Not OEM as advertised and more damaged than they looked in the photos. 

Yours are looking sweet.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm a bit anal in the way of, if I'm doing something I'm going to do it "right". What ever "right" means.  Plus I'm only going to do it once so I'll take the time to get it the way I want it then I can just enjoy it. On my last/first restore project I've developed how I like things so that is what I'm applying to this project and so far I'm very happy!

I think you are headed that way returning those trim rings. :wink2:



Mikesan said:


> I'm lazier than you! I had mine blasted and powder coated a color called heavy silver for $60/wheel for five wheels. Looks like a standard silver painted wheel. Bought one of the Ames or PY kits with the argent and charcoal paint and stencils. Will just do the faces and leave the backs as they are. Good enough for me. Need to get one done as i have that single redline tire coming from Summit any day now. Want to put it on and fit it before getting the other 4. Only thing missing is a set of correct trim rings. Bought a set on ebay, but not happy with them. Need to return. Not OEM as advertised and more damaged than they looked in the photos.
> 
> Yours are looking sweet.


Thanks, I'm enjoying the process and the results!

Dan


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Too Many Projects said:


> The 225 will look better and fit just fine with the factory wheel. The reason the 17's rub is that the wheels are too wide for the front....usually around 9" wide. With ~4.5" of back space, there just isn't room for a wheel that wide in there. I have 225/70 tires on 15x7 rally II's on my '67 and they have plenty of clearance.


I am having the same problem with my GTO the factory rims were 14" with 225 tires and now it has Rally II 15x7" with 235 Redlines.
The tires are new so I just have to live with them until they wear out and get a set of 225s.
I did the front disc conversion so I can't go back to the 14" rims since they will no longer fit.

The 235s rub against the rear passenger fender with 4 people in the car and I can't turn hard left or right or the front tires rub the fenders.
It is great to know you are not having problems with the 15x7s with the 225s and I will go that route when I need a new set.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> I am having the same problem with my GTO the factory rims were 14" with 225 tires and now it has Rally II 15x7" with 235 Redlines.
> The tires are new so I just have to live with them until they wear out and get a set of 225s.
> I did the front disc conversion so I can't go back to the 14" rims since they will no longer fit.
> 
> ...


Hey Goat Roper,

No, I changed back to stock 14" wheels so I didn't use 15s with 225s. I believe if you use 225s on the 15s you shouldn't have any rubbing issues. My tolerance was very close on mine, they actually wouldn't rub every time I turned. I went to 14s because I wanted to go back to stock from the factory look. I still have to find a JA coded wheel (disk brake wheel) to replace the one JC (drum brake wheel) I have. Unless the conversion kit has larger calipers than OE you should be able to go to 14s if you want. You'll just need to get disk brake wheels, i.e. the JA coded wheels I found for mine.

Dan


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Hey Goat Roper,
> 
> No, I changed back to stock 14" wheels so I didn't use 15s with 225s. I believe if you use 225s on the 15s you shouldn't have any rubbing issues. My tolerance was very close on mine, they actually wouldn't rub every time I turned. I went to 14s because I wanted to go back to stock from the factory look. I still have to find a JA coded wheel (disk brake wheel) to replace the one JC (drum brake wheel) I have. Unless the conversion kit has larger calipers than OE you should be able to go to 14s if you want. You'll just need to get disk brake wheels, i.e. the JA coded wheels I found for mine.
> 
> Dan


What I have found out is the aspect ratio should be 60 and not 70.
Today I put 1" riser blocks on the rear and the car has a slight rake now which will keep the tires from rubbing in the rear with 4 people in the car.
These tires are new so I am just going to replace them with 225/60R-15s once I wear them out which driving in the mountains doesn't take long.
As long as I go slow and change the angle of approach on off camber surfaces the fronts won't rub.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> What I have found out is the aspect ratio should be 60 and not 70.
> Today I put 1" riser blocks on the rear and the car has a slight rake now which will keep the tires from rubbing in the rear with 4 people in the car.
> These tires are new so I am just going to replace them with 225/60R-15s once I wear them out which driving in the mountains doesn't take long.
> As long as I go slow and change the angle of approach on off camber surfaces the fronts won't rub.


Yea, same here... I didn't want to mess with having to watch how I drove (mine was actually hitting the edge of the front fenders - worst when backing up and turning) so I sold the old wheels and tires which paid for new tires and replacement wheels - I even had enough left over to get the rear end rebuilt. I was lucky the wheels where perfect, the "old" tires were only 20 months old with 1600 miles on them and the guy needed wheels to finish his restoration.

Yep, that aspect ratio will certainly fit. Good luck!! :thumbsup:

She looks and drives much better now!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Yea, same here... I didn't want to mess with having to watch how I drove (mine was actually hitting the edge of the front fenders - worst when backing up and turning) so I sold the old wheels and tires which paid for new tires and replacement wheels - I even had enough left over to get the rear end rebuilt. I was lucky the wheels where perfect, the "old" tires were only 20 months old with 1600 miles on them and the guy needed wheels to finish his restoration.
> 
> Yep, that aspect ratio will certainly fit. Good luck!! :thumbsup:
> 
> She looks and drives much better now!


Man those look good on there and I like the TA radials, that is what I will go with if I can't find the 15" redline 60's.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, I like them a lot... the only reliable place I found redlines was Coker Tire but they were not cheap. I figured when I hit the lottery I could get a set or two of red lines.


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

I put the 225/70-14 BFG Silvertown redline radial on the restored stock JT coded (1970 disc) wheel and it fits fine with probably 1.25-1.5" of clearance when turning. Then ordered the remaining 4 tires from Summit on Sunday and received them Monday early afternoon. Was amazed at how fast they got here. $233 each and no tax or shipping. I think that's the best you're going to find for prices. Now have to finish painting three remaining rims. Going to put the spare on the original black rim once I get it powdercoated.


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