# Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Bop



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

The Pontiackk is going in for new designer dino juice tomorrow. The oil life monitor finally tripped after abut 7,000 miles.

While it's in the dealer's shop, I've asked them to take a look at a front end shimmy I've been experiencing lately.
It happens intermittently
Generally happens when the car is cold, say first 15 - 20 miles
Happens on a wide range of road surfaces, (highway, secondary, city streets)
Does not seem to be speed dependent, happens from 25 - 80
Will correct itself in a few mintues
Does seem to happen after hitting the brakes but not every time
There is no brake shudder when the brakes are engaged

It's flippin annoying to get random arm massages from a new car.

I'm guessing a front caliper or both are not releasing and dragging a bit.
Can't be warped rotors as the brakes are smooth when applied.
Doubtful it's tires as they show no abnormal wear and it's intermittent.
Likewise for alignment, no wierd wear and the problem comes and goes.

Anybody experience this feature or have any ideas?


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Have the exact same thing going on with my '04. 

Thought it was a tire balance problem -- but had all 4 checked on a Hunter GSP 9700. One of the tires was slightly out of round -- but not enough to cause this. Really irritating at around 65 on the freeway.

Curious to find out what your cause is because I haven't had time to get to the dealership. Really, really frustrating.

Good luck in finding out what's happening on your end.


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## 05 goatman (Sep 13, 2005)

ya my 05 does that also in the morning feels like a bad tire or something you feel it but the steering wheel isnt shaking or anything


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## QwkRed05GTO (Oct 17, 2005)

05 goatman said:


> ya my 05 does that also in the morning feels like a bad tire or something you feel it but the steering wheel isnt shaking or anything


Ditto on my 05. Recently started noticing it as the temps have dropped over night. Maybe something with front struts?


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

you seriously waited 7000 miles before changing the oil ?

The sulphur deposits, amongst others, probably tripled  There's a lot published on this subject.

I know you can run that long but why would you want to?

After 3K, my car actually runs better on fresh mobil 1 (by seat of the pants dyno)

your intermittent problem with brakes/shimmy; first i've read. good luck :cheers


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## J.E.T. (Sep 30, 2005)

If you're running the stock snow tires that come with the car it's them. I just switched mine out today with F1's........huge difference in ride. My stockers would vibrate the steering wheel every morning for about five to ten minutes then smooth out........that's my bet.

JET


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

OK ready for the answer?.........GM Dealer says.......Needs four new tires!

Dealers really are scum. They obviously don't want to do any work under warranty.

The GM product has 13,000 miles on it. Most of those miles are highway as my commute is about 85 miles round trip with 75 of that on the highway. The tires have been rotated. There is plenty of tread depth left in tires.

The dealer service guy states that "the tires are cupped". All four? "Yes, you need four new tires." "Those low profile tires don't last long". And " you didn't rotate them often enough". Bull****!

At this point I mention that the right front tire is one that they sold me a few weeks ago when I had a sidewall failure on the right rear. The new tire went on the front and I had them move the fronts to the rear. Uh, wanna reconsider the statement that I need 4 new tires and they weren't rotated enough? At this point the service guy starts backpedaling having been caught in a lie. Buttwipes.

I've had low profile tires go 40,000 miles and the BFG's have a treadwear rating of 400. That's fairly high for a low profile tire.

Tires don't just cup for no reason with 13,000 miles of use. I ran my hand over the surface and can't detect any cupping. I can detect a lie however.

Final answer tonight from the losers at the Pontiackk store was "go buy yerself 4 new tires, ain't our problem".

This is almost exactly the attitude that made me walk away from Ford twenty years ago and I haven't bought a Ford since and never will.

I can't afford to own a car like this. Don't care about the money so much but can't afford to be dropping it off at the dealer and fighting about quality issues. I just can't afford the time.

I'm thinkin of dumping this domestic pig and going back to a European sedan.


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## 05 goatman (Sep 13, 2005)

hmmm i have 3300 on mine wonder what theyd say to that


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> OK ready for the answer?.........GM Dealer says.......Needs four new tires!
> 
> Dealers really are scum. They obviously don't want to do any work under warranty.
> 
> ...



Please do not hold an entire car comapny reliable for one @$$hole at a dealership. Take your complaint higher up the food chain. Speak to the service department manager, if not him then the General Manager of the store, if not him than the owner of the store. 


If all of this fails then take the car to anyone of the other 2800 GM dealerships in the country. Please(speaking from an American dealership) do not let one moron make the rest of us look like morons.


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## bergenfelter (Nov 11, 2005)

I experienced this on my Trans Am GTA a few years ago when I had a set of BFG summer (ZR4) tires on it. It would sit in the garage for two or three days between drives, and the car would do the exact same thing. It was actually flat spots on the tires from the soft compound tires sitting on the garage floor under load for a few days. A bit of spirited driving to warm up the tires and problem gone.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2005)

his problem is more than a momentary flattening of the tires. And based on what he has been through I can understand his disappointment. But agree with dealernut, keep on trying.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

dealernut said:


> Please do not hold an entire car comapny reliable for one @$$hole at a dealership. Take your complaint higher up the food chain. Speak to the service department manager, if not him then the General Manager of the store, if not him than the owner of the store.
> 
> 
> If all of this fails then take the car to anyone of the other 2800 GM dealerships in the country. Please(speaking from an American dealership) do not let one moron make the rest of us look like morons.


Appreciate your sincerity but as I said, expensive to me is when I have to spend time fighting for decent treatment from a car company. Money is not a problem but I just can't afford the time and distraction for a transportation appliance.

By the way, I'm not one for half measures or wasting time. Already investigating a two car deal. Dump the GTO and my wife's Denali for M3 & X5 or Volvo S60R and X90C. Buh-bye GM. Good luck with the pension plan. Sucks that Ford owns Volvo now.

I'll try pulling the wheels off and deflating the tires this weekend. It could be a broken belt on one of the front tires. It can be hard to detect with them inflated if it's not severe. But, let the air out and a broken belt will make the tire look truly wierd. We'll see.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

wingnut -- sorry your dealer's such a schmuk. Get the Volvos. Ford's leaving them pretty much alone. The XC90 with the Jaguar-based V8 flat out hauls. The S60R's really nice, too. Saw a black one with like a baseball glove orange leather interior. Nice!

If you're into Jags at all -- watch out for gigantic deals on XJRs by year's end. Dealers out here start negotiations at $10K below sticker. The wife's got one -- and it is an awesome car.


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## J.E.T. (Sep 30, 2005)

GM is in trouble......no doubt about it. I'm currently going through a Lemon Law action on my wife's four month old CTS. Thing stranded us on the tollroad first then four more breakdowns including two more tow-ins. I think we drove every model Cadillac makes during all the repairs and it's still not fixed. Even tried to trade up to the STS but they the one dealership who would even discuss a trade wanted $20K and her car........don't think so. Anyway the lawyers have the case now. Bought the GTO to drive while her deal is being settled. Didn't trust the CTS any more and you have to pay for any miles you drive it in the settlement agreement. I dunno, it took an Aussie company to build a quality GM vehicle. I know I'm done with GM.........

JET


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2005)

I dunno, I kinda dug the G6, and apparently so does everyone else. I did have a crapload of problems with my 95 vette though, but will probably still go with another GM product. But, thats just my .02


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## C5ORGTO (Dec 30, 2004)

big_mike said:


> I dunno, I kinda dug the G6, and apparently so does everyone else. I did have a crapload of problems with my 95 vette though, but will probably still go with another GM product. But, thats just my .02


G6 is a pretty nice car, I have one. Its a little boring compared to the GTO however. I drove it for 4 months, then gave it to my wife and got the GTO. With regard to the tires, isn't there a separate warranty just for the tires from the tire manufacturer?

Here is the warranty for the BFG's
Treadlife Warranty None 
Uniformity Warranty First 2/32" of wear 
Workmanship & Materials Warranty 6 Years - Free replacement first year or 25% of tread, then prorated to final 2/32" of tread. 
Manufacturer's Road Hazard Warranty None 
Manufacturer Special Warranty None


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2005)

I just LOVE that car! Although, the GTO is kickass too, I may have a family in the near future, gotta keep it real.


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> Appreciate your sincerity but as I said, expensive to me is when I have to spend time fighting for decent treatment from a car company. Money is not a problem but I just can't afford the time and distraction for a transportation appliance.
> 
> By the way, I'm not one for half measures or wasting time. Already investigating a two car deal. Dump the GTO and my wife's Denali for M3 & X5 or Volvo S60R and X90C. Buh-bye GM. Good luck with the pension plan. Sucks that Ford owns Volvo now.
> 
> I'll try pulling the wheels off and deflating the tires this weekend. It could be a broken belt on one of the front tires. It can be hard to detect with them inflated if it's not severe. But, let the air out and a broken belt will make the tire look truly wierd. We'll see.



I do agree with your statement about time. You are suffering from bad service and blaming the car. If your car was at a "good" service department then they would have identified the issue right off the bat. You cannot possibly blame GM for producing bad cars becasue of your situation. Your concerns have NOTHING to do with GM. They are with a dealership that is not doing their job. I assure you that a bad service department in a BMW can make the same mistakes. 



If a BMW is your idea of reliable then by all means enjoy the car which is merely 20,000 more expensive than a GTO. Go over to Europe and see the "reliable" BMW's over there. 

I do not understand why your Denali would be cut as well. Seeing as the Yukon is one of the most reliable full size sport utility on the road.(thats fact...not opinion)

Anyways, I hope your purchases make you happy. Take your "highly reliable" M3 and enjoy the hell out of it. I will never buy a car from a company that is not rooted in America. 


(Only import I have ever bought is a GTO  )


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2005)

every vehicle has reliability problems and bad apples. So when your M3 takes a dump, or your volvo breaks down, just remember these words.....

told ya so.


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

big_mike said:


> every vehicle has reliability problems and bad apples. So when your M3 takes a dump, or your volvo breaks down, just remember these words.....
> 
> told ya so.



No sir. It is not built in the states so they cannot break down. Perhaps you were not aware of that. 

BTW- how long is the warranty on that car? Wonder why it is longer than a GTO's?


You know it is weird.... BMW's website says that wear and tear items (tires) are not covered in their Full Maintenance plan. hmmm interesting.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2005)

dealernut said:


> No sir. It is not built in the states so they cannot break down. Perhaps you were not aware of that.


nope, wasnt, my bad. :rofl:


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## J.E.T. (Sep 30, 2005)

No company is perfect but they can sure try. I get disgusted when they quit trying and start blaming BS reasons. The last time the CTS was in the shop they called us down to the dealership to go into the service bay. There we all stood, my wife and I, the service manager, the service tech and three mechanics, all looking at the car's engine compartment, like an operating room in the ER! That's when the mechanic pointed to the power wire for my sub amp that was connected to the battery. He says, "we (Cadillac) think ALL the problems here are related to your aftermarket amp and Sirius radio installation." I almost fell over :rofl: :rofl: I said, "you can't be serious". He said "yep" that's what Cadillac is telling us now since we can't get any error codes, I've been on the phone with them all day about this. I then said, "pal, if you're trying to sell that here please stop because it just ain't gonna happen. I personally had the (very minor) stereo connections ALL checked TWICE and absolutely NOTHING was found wrong with them. In fact, why would they work fine for four months, don't you think if they were messed up they would cause a problem right away? My stereo guy has done ALL the local Cadillac dealers work for over ten years and even drives an Escalade with about ten thousand watts of power in it.........all with no extra batteries, etc. He said, well, for ANY aftermarket stereo stuff you need a completely separate power source, you can't use the vehicle's battery for power supply purposes. I couldn't stand it any more and we left. When we picked the car up the service manager wouldn't give us a receipt or explanation of what they did to the car this last time. He said he knew I was just going to give it to my attorney for "ammunition". He was right.........


JET


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2005)

so what finally happened? And I used to have 22 speakers (8 of which were 12's) in my S10 on the stock battery, using 1 amp (400 watts at .25 ohm), best of 145db and never had ONE single problem with either the battery, alternator, or wiring. Although, I did it all myself, it still shows what the system is capable of.


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## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

J.E.T. said:


> No company is perfect but they can sure try. I get disgusted when they quit trying and start blaming BS reasons. The last time the CTS was in the shop they called us down to the dealership to go into the service bay. There we all stood, my wife and I, the service manager, the service tech and three mechanics, all looking at the car's engine compartment, like an operating room in the ER! That's when the mechanic pointed to the power wire for my sub amp that was connected to the battery. He says, "we (Cadillac) think ALL the problems here are related to your aftermarket amp and Sirius radio installation." I almost fell over :rofl: :rofl: I said, "you can't be serious". He said "yep" that's what Cadillac is telling us now since we can't get any error codes, I've been on the phone with them all day about this. I then said, "pal, if you're trying to sell that here please stop because it just ain't gonna happen. I personally had the (very minor) stereo connections ALL checked TWICE and absolutely NOTHING was found wrong with them. In fact, why would they work fine for four months, don't you think if they were messed up they would cause a problem right away? My stereo guy has done ALL the local Cadillac dealers work for over ten years and even drives an Escalade with about ten thousand watts of power in it.........all with no extra batteries, etc. He said, well, for ANY aftermarket stereo stuff you need a completely separate power source, you can't use the vehicle's battery for power supply purposes. I couldn't stand it any more and we left. When we picked the car up the service manager wouldn't give us a receipt or explanation of what they did to the car this last time. He said he knew I was just going to give it to my attorney for "ammunition". He was right.........
> 
> 
> JET



Sir you have an incredible ability to meet every moron and [email protected]$$ in any dealership apparently. LOL!!!! sorry I guess that is not funny to you. 

I will admit that sometimes service techs get stumped and try to blame everyone but their own ignorance. But I can also say with all assurances that it is not just American service departments that are that way. 

We had a Duramax Deisel engine that would not hold oil pressure before. We had an Engineer from Isuzu come and look at it and he could not figure it out as well. Sometimes there is not a fix. Sometimes the service rep is a moron or lazy. That is the frustrating thing about any service department. 


My main thing about this thread is blaming American cars for the problems you are having. It is not Pontiac's fault. It is Wade [email protected]%O's car dealership that is causing the trouble that you are having. My suggestion would be to find a dealership that will treat you right. My opinion is to find an American dealership(GM, Ford, Chrysler, whoever). Seeing as we are Americans


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2005)

yea! american way!


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

dealernut said:


> Sir you have an incredible ability to meet every moron and [email protected]$$ in any dealership apparently. LOL!!!! sorry I guess that is not funny to you.
> 
> I will admit that sometimes service techs get stumped and try to blame everyone but their own ignorance. But I can also say with all assurances that it is not just American service departments that are that way.
> 
> ...


You misunderstand my position. I like the GTO a lot but it has a problem. A problem the GM dealership doesn't even want to investigate. Why should I spend my time trying to make them behave honorably?

I will tolerate defects in a complicated system like a car. But I expect the manufacturer and their dealer network to stand behind their product. The GTO has pretty good quality but when I bought it I also bought a manufacturer's warranty and a dealer network. They suck.

My Volvo had a few minor defects but the dealer was always great about fixing it with no bullcrap and they always got it right the first time. They also treated customers like you expect to be treated when you lay out $30-$50K for a car. When we moved out of state, our new Volvo service dept was the same as the dealer we bought the car from.

Also, our Denali has been perfect for 53,000 miles. But I don't love GM dealers and unfortunately they are part of the package. How else to send a message? Money talks.

Sure a Volvo or BMW or (fill in the blanks) __________ will have failures. The question is how will you be treated when the bad stuff happens? The Europeans and Japanese premium brands have figured out that some people are willing to pay for premium service and better treatment. It really is not just snob appeal. I cannot afford to take time away from my business to deal with a car. Anyone who makes problems go away creates value for me.

If GM is gonna try and sell Caddies for $50K +, they better figure that out.


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## STLGTO05A4 (Jul 3, 2005)

*Shimmy*

I've noticed this with mine also, does not last for 15/20 miles though, After a few minutes Its gone. Not a front end /suspenion issue, just the tires need to warm up a bit. I have had this with other cars/tires. I say don't worry, unless the shimmy does not go away. IMHA


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## J.E.T. (Sep 30, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> You misunderstand my position. I like the GTO a lot but it has a problem. A problem the GM dealership doesn't even want to investigate. Why should I spend my time trying to make them behave honorably?
> 
> I will tolerate defects in a complicated system like a car. But I expect the manufacturer and their dealer network to stand behind their product. The GTO has pretty good quality but when I bought it I also bought a manufacturer's warranty and a dealer network. They suck.
> 
> ...


And here I thought Caddy buyers got "better" treatment from dealerships.......not true at all. I went to THREE different dealerships trying to trade this vehicle instead of going the attorney route and not one offered any help, including the one who sold it to us (along with three other new vehicles in the past 16 months). Sorry, but the word is out on GM and their dealerships........they're ALL no good (sorry dealernut, but I've got a Coggins (Kissimmee store) story for you as well if you want to hear it).

JET


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## cat1055man (Nov 6, 2005)

Wing_Nut said:


> OK ready for the answer?.........GM Dealer says.......Needs four new tires!
> 
> Dealers really are scum. They obviously don't want to do any work under warranty.
> 
> ...


Did you say in one of your posts that the Volvo people treated you properly? Maybe that brand would be a better fit for you and would reduce your frustration level and allow you to relax and enjoy life a little more. Life is way too short to get yourself all upset dealing with those unreasonable people at your "PontiacKK" dealership.
If I were in your shoes...My personal preference would be to work things out with the "Bad" dealer becauase if I was forced to drive a Volvo everyday I would be the one with my shorts all in a knot throwing a tantrum no matter how much the Volvo service manager smiled at me and told me how important I am. Volvo just does not "do it" for me, personal preference, but to each his own. That is why they make so many brands of cars. I hope you can sort out your issues and please try and find peace, you will be much happier with yourself cruising in that new Euro-ride! :cheers


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