# Data Tag confirmation



## 1964SS (Dec 2, 2015)

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and I'm currently looking at purchasing another project car and need some help with the data plate. From what I've researched I believe this car to be a 1964 Lemans with the GTO option. Can someone please verify that I've looked this up correctly.

2p is radio, 5n is GTO?, and 5Z is seatbelt delete?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The only sure way to tell on a '64 is to order the PHS documents. 5N can be a good indicator, but is not 100%.


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## 1964SS (Dec 2, 2015)

5N is not 100%? What else could that option be? The VIN does also start with 824P. I can't really wait for PHS on something that might be sold quickly. =)


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## tonyli (Aug 14, 2013)

1964 Pontiac Tempest Lemans GTO Specifications

Model Number	Body/Style Number	Body Type & Seating
Tempest LeMans w/ GTO Option
22	27 2d Coupe - 5P 
22	37 2d Hardtop - 5P 
22	67 2d Convertible - 5P 

You should still order the PHS.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

In my opinion the ACC code 5N is a 95% to 100% confirmation the car is a GTO for only the Pontiac and Kansas City built cars, If I were in the market for a 64 I would buy the car with only a 5N to go by. I would still order the PHS.


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## 1964SS (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks so much for your help guys. I plan on ordering the PHS. I'm pretty certain this car is a legit project GTO. atriot:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I think for an extra $10.00 they will fax it to you same day.


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## tonyskala (Feb 7, 2015)

*Get the PHS -*

I know It is a late chime in....


GET THE PHS... The shop is run by 1 or 2 Pontiac enthusiasts. Don't use the web form. Call up the office at 586-781-5164, and tell the guy the car may be sold and you need to expidite it. 

He did it for me at least 5 times before I executed on a car. Just tell him you need the verbal thumbs up or down and he can mail you the papers later. 

He has to pull micro film on the car but once he looks it up, he emailed me a screen of it with a real clear annotation of "THIS IS A REAL GTO", Then 1 week later I got the documents. 

I went thru 5 before I got a real one. And this is a true story.. I found a 65 coupe in Oregon. It was a Fremont car and it had the 5n stamped into the data plate on the cowl. But the PHS guy said it was not a GTO optioned car. I sent him a jpg of the plate and he said no way no how.... The data plate was not orginal to the car and he said the rivets did not look right. Short of the story is the data plate did not match the PHS info and it looks like the data plate was an after thought. 

Although I pent about 500 dollars on PHS it probably saved me 4 k in the long run


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Or, if the seller has the Protect-0-Plate, you don't need the PHS...the POP will have the EUN (Engine Unit Number) on the back page, which will confirm the car as a real GTO.


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## tonyskala (Feb 7, 2015)

So to this day I have never seen a real orginal protect-o-plate. 
But do not worry... this guy will make you one up if you want..

1965 1972 Chevrolet Corvette Camaro Chevelle Malibu Nova Protect O Plate | eBay

and for a price of only 325 dollars, this kinda stuff only adds to the confusion of not knowing what you are really buying. 
Add in the fact that the same stamps were not used day to day and that factory to factory things were done differently, it make a real easy for fraudsters.

In my humble opinion you have to do a little work on the cars you are looking into buying. And square 1 is PHS. 

In my previous threads I talk alot about vins, dataplates, engine codes, block restamps because it is real easy to get fleeced.

So my Brother in Law had a 66 Lemans. He cloned it when he was like 18 years old, sold it when he was 25 and found it again on CL when he was 32.

Guess what, it was being sold as an original tripower GTO car. So the car changed hands 3 times after he sold it at 25 and found it agian 7 years later
And the sellers reply is that is what i was told when i got it. 

So a clone or fraudster doing the work 20 years ago, makes it look only more legit because now there is petina, and a little rust makeing it look even more legit.


So when I got my car I dropped a deposit on it knowing I would losse it if I did not ge tthe car. That at least locked me in for 400 dollars while I got down to Arizona and could verify everything.
So I got the PHS checked the visible VIN and the hidden Vin. In case your wondering Pontiac stamped these cars in a few places with the vin. Driver side top of the frame just behind the door. 
You need a mirror to see it. 

Then when I got it back to CA I immediately took it to CHP and had them do the VIN check and sign off on it. That way there is no mistake that it was legit. They have a huge book of all the secondary locations of the vin. 
This is really important because there could have been a replacement frame on the car and you really want everyting to match. Or at least have CHP document it so there are no problmes later. 

Now here is the reason why. 

In the move Pulp Fiction the Malabu that Vincent drives was Quentin Tarantino's personal car. Well it was stolen a little while later. Then the VIN was removed fro mthe car and replaced with another VIN from a car that wrecked.
Well LAPD found the car in Los Angeles in a flood control station and looked up the VIN. The car came back as being owned by a guy in San Lorenzo, CA. 
So they call him up and he says no my car is in the garage. So they come down and look at it. They look at the secondary vin locations and determine the car was Quentin Tarantino's. And that the VIN of the car the guy bought was the one sittign in a flood control station in LA.
So they took the car and gave it back to Quentin Tarantino. Nevermind this poor chap spent 40K on the car and restoring it. This guy replaced a bunch of components on the car and then the CHp took it away and gave it back to the orginal owner. 
This guy did not even get compensated for the car or the work he did. 

Read the story.... Situation really sucks..... 

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/how-q...-nearly-two-decades-later-170713276.html?nf=1


Now I like my cars way too much to give them away after i did all this work on them. And for those of you wondering.. Yes I am taking it with me when I go. My kid can have the Camaro, but I am taking the GTO.
I have instructed my lovely wife to drain the oil, gas, and water, dig a huge hole, put me in the drivers seat, and then to push me and the car into the hole and cover us with dirt. 
She can spread my dogs ashes over the ground above my car and I later..... But in all honesty she will most likely seek revenge and sell the car on this forum for a dollar as retribution for the carb being cleaned in the sink, the spare rims and tires in the back yard, and countless piles of parts I have tacticly strewn in the garage, yard, attic, and shed.
It all looks like junk in piles to her but there is a complex orginization to the whole thing that no one understands but me. 

So do your home work on these older cars. You dont want to get stuck puttign your soul and wallet into someone elses car and have to give it back for nothing.


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## tonyskala (Feb 7, 2015)

Another good story is the AC cobra that was wrecked in the 70's. The frame and body on those cars were merried together and this one car was heavily damaged in an acciddent. Well the repair was to take the body off the car scrap it and fit it with a new body. The Al body was found in a scrap yard a few years later and someone bought it knowing it was a real AC cobra. it went into storage for a few years until the guy could get the funds to build it right. Well eventually they resotred it with a new frame and got he Al body sorted out. 

This all happened while the orginal owner kept the orginal frame and had the replacement body put on. So now there are two guys claiming their car is orginal because they each have a component of the original car. I think in that case the orginal frame won because it was always registered and maintained its status of the original car. They had the actual title continously. The body was supposed to be turned into paper clips or beer cans or something and was done with a bill of sale and then titled off of that. But hopefully you get the point.


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## pjw1967 (Mar 10, 2014)

geeteeohguy said:


> Or, if the seller has the Protect-0-Plate, you don't need the PHS...the POP will have the EUN (Engine Unit Number) on the back page, which will confirm the car as a real GTO.


I love this board. Having owned my '67 for 21.5 years now, I discovered by looking at the data plate that it should have a turquoise headliner instead of a white one. Now I gotta look closely at the Protecto-Plate for that EUN. Never heard of that before. Someone mentioned above that POP's are being reproduced. I think mine has the original owner's name embossed on it.


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## 1964SS (Dec 2, 2015)

Hey gang, I finally got my PHS ordered and now I have the documents validating that it is a true GTO. This project is moving along well.


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## dcparg (May 22, 2015)

I ordered mine today from PHS as well a few things from the cowl tag and vin plate looked funny made me very nervous.


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