# 500-813 Block



## 68GTOstrowski (Feb 18, 2015)

Okay fella's I need some advice. 

I bought a 68 roller with a 75' 455,-500-813 block. As usual I didn't do my homework before I bought it. I picked it up from a co-worker whom I trust. He had the motor built in 2000 and it has never ran.

Specs:
Bore-4.151' +.030'' = 4.181''
Stroke-4.21
RPM perf 87cc edl al heads
decked .012''
-6.7cc dished TRW forged pistons
1.6'' RR
RPM performer intake
EDL 7157 hyd flat tappet cam 231/240 at .470 with factory rockers. 113*

STOCK Rods
STOCK crank

So I know I need to do something about the rods. I've heard mixed reviews about that particular block. My question is should I just get a good 4 bolt 400 Forged long block from butler and put all my goodies on that? Should I try to sell what I have and start over? Or go LS! ha ha. I don't want to sell some poor sucker a ticking time bomb. Should I be alright with the block with I forge the internals and push it up over 550HP? or is that pushing it?

I sold a 09 GT500 and want something with comparable power and 1/4 times with room to grow. If I stick with the poncho I would go somewhere comparable to what Bear built himself. All that said I haven't even scoped it to see if it was even useable so this might all be a mute point anyways. Just looking for some Ponchos advice. Thanks.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

The 500813 455 block is fine, have built off several, one with splayed 4 bolt caps. Quite a few of us have also built the stock flow early 87 cc Ehead 455 combo (or had that exact combo built for friends/customer's). With Edelbrock's basic clone of the RAIV cam, you will be looking at around 440 gross HP at the crank and close to 500 gross torque, with E heads, definitely leaving some on the table. If it was mine, I would pull it apart and go back with forged rods and lighter forged pistons and have it rebalanced. Just a good move, would also have the heads lightly ported and decide on a proven cam to get the most out of the package.


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## 68GTOstrowski (Feb 18, 2015)

Smart minds think alike. A fella from butler said the same thing about the mods and the power levels. 

Should I be worried if I forge it and keep the 2 bolt caps?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

At the power level you are mentioning, if you want more of a margin of safety, can install main studs on the two bolt main caps... been done for decades to 3.25" main Pontiacs even up to 600-650 hp range. Installing aftermarket four bolt caps is an expensive proposition, went that route on a friends block, as he was going to spray it with a 250 plate setup. I had the block work done for around $650-700, including a set of 3 program engineering caps, along w a partial hardblock, fitting of caps, a full line bore, then had to chase a slightly shorter timing chain set (commonly avail today)

Lighter forged rods and lighter forged pistons are the ticket, there are so many choices today. having spent quite a bit of coin building with ancient and heavy 455 SD rods, & trw 2359's and heavy Oliver rods and Ross pistons, am glad there are much lighter piston and rod combinations avail, today, the cost of both are also better than it was 15-20 years ago.


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## 68GTOstrowski (Feb 18, 2015)

Ok, you have pretty much told me what I wanted to hear. I've been doing lots of reading, it has consumed many nights.I was really hoping some others would have been using the same block with similar parts. I hope to get the ball rolling soon. I might just get a full long block but Im just looking at all the options before I make the call. Thanks again.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

68GTOstrowski said:


> I sold a 09 GT500 and want something with comparable power and 1/4 times with room to grow. If I stick with the poncho I would go somewhere comparable to what Bear built himself. All that said I haven't even scoped it to see if it was even useable so this might all be a mute point anyways. Just looking for some Ponchos advice. Thanks.


Sorry.....I love Pontiacs but to duplicate or exceed the power levels of your GT500 with its supercharged 32 valve V8 and six speed you will have some serious coin to drop. That said, Bear's combination is an awesome example of what an NA Pontiac V8 is capable of and with a lower compression ratio would be fine for supercharging. Consider rocking the combination you have now for a while and get the rest of the car sorted out while you build a stout shortblock to handle some boost. :thumbsup:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Gee. thanks for the flowers guys 

Anything's possible, given the will and the cash  --- but the one thing I'd always do when building any Pontiac that I intended to be anything at all 'hotter' than stock would be to replace the factory rods with good forged ones. The cost is 'about the same' once you factor in the cost of reconditioning a set of factory rods, but the value of the peace of mind is significant.

Bear


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

There are LOTS of options today. Since you are considering a Butler engine, you obviously have some coins to spend. Here is just one of the many options available.

Buy a 400 block 4.25" stroker shortblock from Len Williams.

455 Short Block

Call SD Performance and buy a set of their ported alum heads, with port matched intake. And go with one of their "Old Faithful" roller cams.

SD Performance- Pontiac Performance Specialists

SD Performance- Pontiac Performance Specialists

SD Performance- Pontiac Performance Specialists

SD Performance- Pontiac Performance Specialists

SD Performance- Pontiac Performance Specialists

SD Performance- Pontiac Performance Specialists

No, it ain't the only way. But it IS one way.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

My engine guy says that the KRE High Ports may be the best bang for the buck, out of the box. He made 755hp with a set, on a 400 block 4.5" stroker. 

Kauffman Racing Equipment

He's about to try a set of the DCI RA5 heads. 

http://www.dcimotorsports.com/services/pontiac-v8-engine-builder/

http://www.dcimotorsports.com/products/ram-air-five-heads/


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## 68GTOstrowski (Feb 18, 2015)

Im assuming 750HP on a 400 block had a 4 bolt main? I heard the blocks start cracking over 750?

Forged rods and rock what I bought! Im digging it.I will be putting a T56 magnum and a 9'' behind it so it should be plenty of fun. That Shelby I had came with 500hp at the crank and that texas heat would start pulling timing after a couple pulls with boost where I could feel the power being cut down. Im thinking I can get a NA poncho over 500hp without too much work. Im more interested in the torque and the NA motor. I would definitely love to spank some of the newer muscle cars but who wouldn't. I really want a DD that hooks up and has good useable torque. I think Im in the right direction.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Yeah, Butler advertises 700-750hp with enuff compression and cam. They use 4-bolt mains with studs. And most use lifter bore braces and fill the lower part of the block with Hard-Bloc, to strengthen the lower block and cylinders.

Butler Performance - 474 C.I. 660 HP Stroker Pontiac Engines

And they use the big 1050 or larger carbs. My guy ran his on E-85. It's got more octane than pump gas and is under $2 per gallon down here now.


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