# Goat or Chicken: Will 2010 Pontiac be a Firebird or GTO?



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

*Goat or Chicken: Will 2010 Pontiac be a Firebird or GTO?*
Posted Jul 3rd 2007 by Frank Filipponio







We visited this issue in February, when Winding Road speculated Pontiac would get a Camaro spinoff, but now Car and Driver is weighing in. With the imminent return of the Chevy Camaro, many Poncho fans have wondered about a possible return of the screaming chicken, as well. Pontiac's last attempt at reviving a storied model (GTO) met with mixed results. 

The GTO was supposed to be a slam dunk for Pontiac. Take an existing rear drive muscular platform, add a few Pontiac trim pieces and a GTO badge, and voilà, instant success. Well, it didn't quite go as planned and GTO sales were rather tepid. Not that it wasn't a good car, especially in 6.0 form, but it didn't really set hearts aflutter, especially compared to the wildly successful retro Mustang.

So will Pontiac get a new GTO, or maybe a Firebird instead? With the G8 coming to replace the Bonneville and Grand Prix, a suitable RWD platform is already approved for US consumption. And of course, it's also underpinning that hot new Camaro. So if Pontiac gets a new muscle coupe, will it show up as a goat or a chicken? That's what Car and Driver asked Pontiac. After a long silence, C and D finally got some answers. Surprisingly, they seem to point towards a new GTO. 

They based this on Bob Lutz's own words: "No carbon copy of the Camaro will make it into any other GM-brand showroom" is how they put it. They also point out that while a Firebird would have to be essentially the same as a Camaro, a GTO from the same platform could be bigger and different enough to claim its own place in the market, maybe more of a G8 coupe. 

Whichever badge this future Pontiac sport coupe wears, it should get the same 261-hp 3.6-liter DOHC V-6 or 362-hp LS2 6.0-liter V-8 options as the G8. They would be offered with five or six-speed automatics, respectively, but six-speed manuals should be available, as well. Tough choice, really – a Firebird that would be a restyled Camaro, or a GTO that could go its own way. Which would you choose? 

[Source: Car and Driver]


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## Questor (Nov 27, 2004)

I agree with Lutz....clone cars are boring. That firebird mock up is as ugly as the last 20 years of Firebirds. GTO is the type for me....


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## Eddie 70 (Aug 29, 2006)

I would rather see a GTO myself. I am still digging the last Goat and still wishing I had bought one. :willy:


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## BV GTO (Jul 14, 2006)

I don't think there would be a big market for a cloned Camaro labeled as a Firebird. Camaros were better sellers than Firebirds anyway and the Firebird would only eat into the Camaro's sales. GM doesn't need another 2+2 coupe. They should continue the GTO heritage as being a bigger car than Camaro and also a true 4 seater coupe.I read that the Monte Carlo will not be continued, so Pontiac will have the GM coupe market to themselves. 
But *PLEASE* don't give me a retro-GTO.


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## 2006GTOLS2 (Sep 23, 2005)

No thanks. The styling might be different, but I like the way my GTO looks.....and a 38HP decrease in power........nope. I will keep my 06 GTO.....:cheers


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## Chuck (Nov 7, 2004)

BV GTO said:


> I don't think there would be a big market for a cloned Camaro labeled as a Firebird. Camaros were better sellers than Firebirds anyway and the Firebird would only eat into the Camaro's sales. GM doesn't need another 2+2 coupe. They should continue the GTO heritage as being a bigger car than Camaro and also a true 4 seater coupe.I read that the Monte Carlo will not be continued, so Pontiac will have the GM coupe market to themselves.
> But *PLEASE* don't give me a retro-GTO.


Especially not with 38 less horsepower than the last one.


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## Xman (Oct 31, 2004)

By 2010, there will be the new LS3 out with 425 HP - maybe even and LS4!


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

they should bring back the legacy of the fireturd. it's been lingering as the camaros dark shadow all of these years why not continue that legacy? i never really cared much for the f-body cars but the x-bodies were nice. if they did bring back the camaro maybe they make the fireturd and then make an x-body variant like the g8 and formula both 2 and 4 door models of this car for both chevy and poncho. and buick too like the nova, ventura, ******. shoot why not bring back the vega? i think the goat should be what it was originally, a small sedan like a lemans with the largest/most powerful engine available (ls7 FTW). so a g5 with an ls7 = modern day gto. i'd sell my 06 for that version. camaro and fireturd FTW with a nova ventura and ****** "popular" model. just imagine a v6 gto...makes me want to say WTF instead of FTW. :lol:


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

Xman said:


> By 2010, there will be the new LS3 out with 425 HP - maybe even and LS4!


ls4 is what is found in the impala ss and monte carlo ss and grand prix gxp. the 5.3 front mounted v8 producing around 330 hp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine


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## Zoomin (Mar 26, 2005)

It wouldn't cost them much more to put out a Firebird on the same line. I don't know if it would cannibalize camaro sales, or supplement them. The idea of going after a different market with the GTO name makes sense too. 

I say both.


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## Chuck (Nov 7, 2004)

koman said:


> ls4 is what is found in the impala ss and monte carlo ss and grand prix gxp. the 5.3 front mounted v8 producing around 330 hp
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine


Make that 303.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

It saddens me to say: whatever desires you expect on this topic, DON'T EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN. I think the G8 is all were gonna get. GM pretty much already said no to this, plus right now any new RWD outside of the Camaro and G8 is under the ax because GM is sweating the possible new emissions restrictions.http://www.leftlanenews.com/shock-general-motors-puts-zeta-rear-wheel-drive-revolution-on-hold.html
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see a new Goat or Firebird, but it dosen't seem in the cards.


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

05GTO said:


> Whichever badge this future Pontiac sport coupe wears, it should get the same 261-hp 3.6-liter DOHC V-6 or 362-hp LS2 6.0-liter V-8 options as the G8.


Why would GM consider going with an LS2 with less horsepower than the current one, unless the Goat would be enough lighter in weight to offset the horsepower reduction?

If anything, I would expect an LS2 in the G8 with no less than 400 HP if it's going to be shared with the GTO.


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## Reno'sGoat (Dec 10, 2004)

Mean Goat said:


> Why would GM consider going with an LS2 with less horsepower than the current one, unless the Goat would be enough lighter in weight to offset the horsepower reduction?
> 
> If anything, I would expect an LS2 in the G8 with no less than 400 HP if it's going to be shared with the GTO.


I agree 100%. There is no way I would buy another GTO with less power, I want more ! more ! more!


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## Daisey_Moonshine (May 13, 2007)

A GTO coupe? That would be a disgrace for the GTO legacy. 

I would like them to bring both the Firebird and the GTO muscle cars back, and make them bigger and better than ever before, but is it just a dream? 

I hope they don't make another mistake producing a car like the GTO and pulling them off the production line to make G8's that have no history and no name. The Mustang has evolved because Ford kept the Mustang heritage alive, whereas GM let their Firebird's and GTO's fall into extinction.


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## IPOCKALYPSE (Mar 7, 2005)

Mean Goat said:


> Why would GM consider going with an LS2 with less horsepower than the current one, unless the Goat would be enough lighter in weight to offset the horsepower reduction?
> 
> If anything, I would expect an LS2 in the G8 with no less than 400 HP if it's going to be shared with the GTO.


It happened in the 70's so who knows.


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

I have to agree with Pearl Jam on this one, more muscle cars just don't seem to be in the cards. Should they put out a firebird based on the picture above, I would surely purchase that over a new camaro. Time after time Chevy puts lackluster interiors into their cars, while it seems Pontiac puts _less crappy interiors in with better sound systems.

To answer the question; goat or chicken, I would like to see a firebird only because bringing back another GTO style seems like beating a dead horse.
And I'm sorry koman, but nothing can make a G5 into a cool car. It is a boxy and all around cheap looking car in and out that is only fit for 16 year olds to learn driving on and foreigners just entering the country.(yes I know it is the same platform as the cobalt.)

As far as what car should be resurrected for the good of GM, I believe after the monte carlo is discontinuted it should be re designed and put back into the market. The monte and bonneville were very solid cars that simply need a new spin on them to boost sales.

Sorry for the long post._


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*The indecisions coming from GM is getting old. GM's poor marketing on the deceased GTO line doomed this car from the start. GM talked a few years ago about bringing back the Firebird then I read NO WAY will it be brought back, there is no talk of reviving it. Now they are talking about it. The GTO is dead, then they come out and say no it's not, then they say yes it is, then they say we will disguise it as a G8. The indecisions coming from them show just what kind of tailspin they are in. So far the G line is BORING. I would expect no less of the G8 IF it ever gets past the round table discussion area. 

March 25, 2007 article states an expansion of the rear wheel drive... *

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/GM_Expands_Rear-Drive_Plans.S173.A12113.html

*April 10, 2007 article states GM putting the brakes on rear wheel drive vehicles.*
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0704090401apr10,0,1765735.column?coll=chi-bizfront-hed

*Now this article by [Source: Car and Driver] states in an article dated Jul 3, 2007 a Firebird and GTO are being contemplated.

They truly are struggling to come up with something, anything. I don't believe a word of anything they say, Bob Lutz has recanted and decanted and recanted again so much, anything coming from his mouth is string pulling.

March 25 he says expansion of rear wheel drive, 2 weeks later he says GM is putting the brakes on rear wheel drives. Then 90 days or so later he is talking about 2 model cars both rear wheel drives, one they killed rather then redesign it and keep it going.... and Firebird talk he stated before will NEVER be revived. 

He's a friggin clown. Either keep his mouth shut until they have something definitive to say or come out with something other than speculation. 
I don't buy anything coming from GM. GM is pounding their chest on the upcoming Camaro, they still have time to screw this up. I expect it. 

Reading about their indecisions and indecisiveness is as boring as the G line they created. *


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## 455bobcat (May 25, 2007)

:agree Ah, put so eloquently.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

If GM decides to grace Pontiac with a "musclecar" they should continue with the brand differentiation they have been working on for the past few years. It's a sound strategy and it's working for them. Lutz & co need to have the attention span to give it a chance to succeed.

That means a Camaro clone would be counter to the larger corporate strategy. Also, Pontiac needs to, and is trying to move away from the F-body image of plastic tack-ons and juvenile decals.  No good will come of that association for a brand trying to be taken seriously as a performance marque.

They should either continue with the GTO badge in a grown up, big boy's coupe that is differentiated from the Camaro in price, looks, and performance content. Or create a totally new badge that is once again differentiated from the Camaro in price, looks, and performance content. 

The current GTO, Solstice, and G8 are all steps in the right direction towards establishing an affordable performance brand. I'd hate to see Pontiac go back to the old practice of slapping a new grille & tailights on another division's cars. Customers expect more these days. IMHO.


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## GTO DAN (Nov 16, 2006)

Eddie 70 said:


> I would rather see a GTO myself. I am still digging the last Goat and still wishing I had bought one. :willy:


I have an 06 with 9,800 miles for sale :cool 
magnaflow x-pipe 2 1/2'' polished stainless back to stainless deltaflow 40's
4'' rolled tips and GM GTO front grilles if you are interested
car is like new asking payoff $28,300 paid $32,000
custom exhaust was $1,000 grilles were $375

Dan 571-238-9116


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## 05 Silver/Red A4 GTO (Mar 13, 2006)

*2010 Gto*

LS7 as a minimum - or don't bother.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

05 Silver/Red A4 GTO said:


> LS7 as a minimum - or don't bother.


That might raise the price a bit......


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

05 Silver/Red A4 GTO said:


> LS7 as a minimum - or don't bother.


Yeah, that'll happen!

How about something attainable like a 4 seat coupe that weighs in at 3,400 Lbs with an LS2/LS3 and room for say 275-18's at the rear and 255-18's up front?

GM needs a car that can do battle with the Challenger at the 35 - 40K price point and make people think twice about a BMW or Lexus. I don't think the market will pay that much for a Firechicken.


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## EEZ GOAT (Jul 9, 2005)

05 Silver/Red A4 GTO said:


> LS7 as a minimum - or don't bother.


i agree with that one


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

*A 362 HP LS2 In A Goat Might Not Be So Bad......*

......If the Goat's weight is reduced.

With 400 hp and a curb weight of 3725 lbs (per the Pontiac website), the '05-'06 GTO has a weight/power ratio of about 9.3 lbs/hp.

With 362 hp and a reduced weight of about 3370 lbs, the weight/power ratio stays at about 9.3 lbs/hp.

Think about what this could mean (compared to the '05-'06 Goat):

......0-60 and 1/4-mile results should be about the same,

......The LS2 (and the rest of the drivetrain) wouldn't be stressed as much,

......Handling should be better,

......Braking should be improved, and,

......Fuel economy should be better.

Of course, the cost of the Goat may actually increase since the lower curb weight may in part be due to higher usage of aluminum and even composite materials. 

And, the new Goat wouldn't tread on 'Vette territory since the weight/power ratio wouldn't change.

Think I would like that!....:cheers


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Mean Goat said:


> ......If the Goat's weight is reduced.
> 
> With 400 hp and a curb weight of 3725 lbs (per the Pontiac website), the '05-'06 GTO has a weight/power ratio of about 9.3 lbs/hp.
> 
> ...



:agree Something along the lines you describe would make sense for a Pontiac branded performance coupe in the GM lineup.


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## silgoat05 (Jul 1, 2006)

it looks like a bigger sunfire to me not a firebird i say no way i would like to see the idea for the gto!!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*I thought it resembled the nose of a Sunbird too. Mixed in with a slight hint of Vibe.

We will never see it anyway. Those drawings will be added to the folder in Bob Lutz's file cabinet with all the other proposals. *


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## MajorTom (Jun 30, 2007)

I think the concept on the first page could use a little more work. And a little less bandit. But I like the idea. I like the idea of both, but we know that'll never happen. It's pretty clear GM changed their mind on that initial article because of the emissions standards so I dont' think Lutz can be blamed too much. I'm not sure the engine in the G8 is going to be an LS2. I think it's called the L98. Or so says a motortrend article I read a month or so back. LS7 might be over kill. Especially with the cost and complexity of a dry sump oil system. That could be a sweet option for a camaro/firebird/gto though. I'd love to see an Impala as well. And a Monte Carlo. All of those are sweet cars and would probably get good attention from loyal gm fans like myself. 

I like this idea of the rear wheel drive cars. I would really really like to see it happen. But I have a bad feeling that we're only going to see the Camaro. Then I suppose we can only hope that sparks interest.


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## Licit (Sep 4, 2005)

Mean Goat said:


> ......If the Goat's weight is reduced.
> 
> With 400 hp and a curb weight of 3725 lbs (per the Pontiac website), the '05-'06 GTO has a weight/power ratio of about 9.3 lbs/hp.
> 
> ...


There is almost no way that can even happen. You know the G8 will weigh in around 4000lbs right? With the stupid new crash standards imposed by the gov't it makes it alot harder to make lightweight cars. Lutz has complained about this fact twice in interviews, the big reason is he has the gov't saying to improve mpg standards but at the same time add more crash safety features which only add weight to a car.
On another note though it is almost guaranteed not to get the LS7(being discontinued with the LS2) I know I wouldn't be excited at all to get the 362hp V8 from the G8, it's slower than the Goat I have now! If anything you have to figure Lutz learned from switching to the LS2 for the '05 and '06 models, and thus you would assume the next Goat would share what engine the base Vette has at the time.


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

Licit said:


> With the stupid new crash standards imposed by the gov't it makes it alot harder to make lightweight cars.


.....But not impossible. That's the reason I mentioned the use of more aluminum and possibly composite materials to reduce the weight of the car. Yeah, I know that would add to the manufacturing cost, but such a Goat (or whatever) might still be affordable.

The hood and trunk lid of my '06 Mazda MX-5 are aluminum, and this was done strictly to decrease weight......I just try to stay out of hailstorms.....LOL

Considering all the advantages that I suggested, I think such a car might just be feasible and desirable.


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

aluminum is quite expensive though. what ever happened to saturn's recycled polymer door panels and all? weren't the last generation camaros with plastic door panels? i feel there are many ways to lighten the load, many ways to make more efficient power too. but there are so many "it can't be dones" that no one even attempts to try. honestly i don't see the efficency of fwd versus rwd. look at all the crooks and turns the power has to go through to be transfered. engine to transaxle, transaxle to cv joints, cv joints to wheels, not to mention the heat factor. rwd is just straight to the rear axle then splits 90 degrees to either a solid axle or cv type joint. i guess it is like ford was supposed to come out with a polymer engine block for some of their econoboxes. i think when chevy killed the camaro project they literally got rid of all of the history or built up history and it should have been time for a new slate but i really hope the camaro slate doesn't include a camaro/gto sibling thing going on. camaro/fireturd please.


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

koman said:


> but there are so many "it can't be dones" that no one even attempts to try.


You got that right!

In the early '70s, I helped start up a new plant in SC. It was a very successful start-up, and the plant continues to be the flagship of the company today.

We tried things that no one else had, and most of the time, did them successfully; also, we set world records at times (even though we were threatened with getting fired sometimes if they didn't work!....LOL)

Later, it was said that "we tried things that everyone else said wouldn't work, because 'we didn't know that they couldn't be done'"!......An oxymoron?....Probably!....LOL. (Hope I didn't blow anyone's mind with that one!) 

Ignorance has its advantages sometimes, I guess.


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## G.T.O (Dec 28, 2005)

As Lutz said, neither GTO or Firebird is going to happen. I believe him. 

I don't think that muscle cars generally yield a high profit, and are probably a PITA to warranty too. 
The Mustang has kicked GM's butt almost every year and I don't see that changing unless GM learns to build and market what the general sports/performance car buyer wants. 

Why should GM's supposed "Performance division" have a performance car like a GTO or Firbird, both of which are a much better name than "Camaro". What the heck is a Camaro? What's in a name? Mustang is IMO probably one of the best names a car could have. Leave the performance to Chevrolet who will have all of GM's **** performance cars. (Rolls eyes)

I have been interested in buying a compact, luxury, high performance sedan for 24/7/365 duties. GM 's Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, and Saturn don't offer one. Closest match from GM is a Saab 9-3 Aero.


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## Mean Goat (Aug 18, 2005)

G.T.O said:


> I have been interested in buying a compact, luxury, high performance sedan for 24/7/365 duties.


I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but maybe the Dodge Charger SRT8 is the closest match for your needs. But, understandably, you may want to stay with GM.

Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, I don't have loyalty to any vehicle manufacturer. I guess I was loyal to FoMoCo for many years, but that went out the window when they tried to screw me in 2004. However, I've never owned a Chrysler product.


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## BV GTO (Jul 14, 2006)

koman said:


> <snip> honestly i don't see the efficency of fwd versus rwd. look at all the crooks and turns the power has to go through to be transfered. engine to transaxle, transaxle to cv joints, cv joints to wheels, not to mention the heat factor. <snip>.


The main advantage of FWD is packaging. There's no large central tunnel and tranny hump intruding into the passenger area. Very important in extremely small cars like the original Mini which, surprisingly can seat 4 rather comfortably.








Another benefit is better traction in foul weather with the weight of the drivetrain sitting atop of the driven wheels.
But for performance cars, RWD is better. you don't see any FWD Ferraris, Porsches, Corvettes, et al.


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## PEARL JAM (Sep 6, 2005)

Also weight reduction. FWD eliminates the weight of the rear end. Even though the rear end components are moved up front (axles, differential) they are in a lighter package.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

G.T.O said:


> As Lutz said, neither GTO or Firebird is going to happen. I believe him.
> 
> Why should GM's supposed "Performance division" have a performance car like a GTO or Firbird, both of which are a much better name than "Camaro". What the heck is a Camaro? (Rolls eyes)


*IMO.... Lutz is grasping at straws, he cannot make his mind up. This guy contradicts everything coming out of his yap.

The GTO defines the muscle car, but I think GM is relying on the popularity of the Camaro to help pull them out of their dungeon. The Camaro is the most popular car Chevy ever had and I think they are hoping those Camaro enthusiasts will come back to buy them. It worked with the reto style Stang but those sales are dropping fast. Pricing is the Key. Dealer mark-ups will decide how many are sold. To base sales on dealer mark ups is stupid. Basing sales on MSRP will be more realistic. Gaging sales on what dealers want their profit margins to be will not reflect true interest on the cars. If they base sales on it that way it will be bases on a false premise. Sell them for what they are intended to sell at and gage it that way. Ford's dealers hurt sales of the Stang because of their 20K mark ups. 

The Stang for example is marketed to a certain income and age range. When the price of these mid 20K cars are costing 40K that car is now competing with BMW's and such. People with 40 some K to spend on a car are generally looking for higher end cars. I hope this type of mark up don't happen with the Camaro, and Challenger.*


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## G.T.O (Dec 28, 2005)

Mean Goat said:


> I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but maybe the Dodge Charger SRT8 is the closest match for your needs. But, understandably, you may want to stay with GM.


I have owned 21 cars from many different manufacturers over the years (I'm 55), but mostly from GM. I don't want to drive something with a silly-sounding name like Toyyoda, Sukiyaki, Itsazoozoo, etc... LOL
When I bought my GTO I initially was interested in the Chrysler 300 and the Mustang. As for what I'm looking for now, the Mopars are not a compact or anywhere even near to being a compact car.


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## G.T.O (Dec 28, 2005)

GTO judge said:


> *
> The Stang for example is marketed to a certain income and age range. When the price of these mid 20K cars are costing 40K that car is now competing with BMW's and such. People with 40 some K to spend on a car are generally looking for higher end cars. I hope this type of mark up don't happen with the Camaro, and Challenger.*


+1000
And even though I don't like the Camaro name, it appears to be an awesome-looking car. Take two identical cars, name one Camaro and other Mustang. Guess which one will out sell the other. :cool


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## 1badbrazen (Apr 8, 2007)

2006GTOLS2 said:


> No thanks. The styling might be different, but I like the way my GTO looks.....and a 38HP decrease in power........nope. I will keep my 06 GTO.....:cheers


agreed:cheers


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## lukekeith (Oct 27, 2006)

First of all, let me say that my goat and I are passionately in love. However, I also think the new Camaro looks like a pretty hot car, BUT the Camaro is in a completely different class than the GTO. By no means is a camaro or potential new firebird a replacement for the GTO.

Secondly, everybody and their mother's uncle is doing the "retro" thing, that's why I love my GTO, it's DIFFERENT!!! I never liked driving boxy cars anyway, just a personal preference I guess. If they bring it back, THEY BETTER DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!! SCREW RETRO!!! Is it so much to ask a multi-billion dollar company to be original? I work for a marketing company as a programmer/graphic designer and my job is to just sit around thinking up original and creative stuff. GM has plenty of creative guys I'm sure, if they would just do their job and stop ripping off the latest fads, then maybe the new GTO will be something worthy of our love. 

As for the firebird, my first car was a 2001 navy blue V6 firebird. Naturally I have an emotional attachment and I would love to see it come back, I wish the firebird luck, but if it gets in the way of resurrecting the GTO. I will pray every night for God to strike it down with the fury and vengeance of a billion ******** who just discovered St. Louis was nuked by terrorists leaving anheuser busch in ruins!!!

..... or something like that, GTO RULES!!!


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*IMO....the "Bubble Car look" and European Styling thing is getting stagnant, it's apparent in the lagging sales of all 3. I like the retro look.... Not the FULL squared off looks of the 60's but the resemblance of them. I get GTO owners of the 60's complimenting the looks of the new generation GTO's quite a bit. Most of the conversations I have with them revolves around the performance end of it. I also get those who think the looks of a GTO has been desecrated. The power of this car IS RETRO. 

I am anxiously awaiting the release of the 08-09 Challenger. IMO if the looks of the new Camaro and Challenger are not too much compromised, sales are hot and the cars are reasonably priced maybe we will see a line of slightly old school looks with a modern blend to them. Maybe going back to the Future is not a bad idea (on some model cars). *


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## G.T.O (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm expecting the Challenger to be overweight, and both to be overpriced. I hope with all my heart that I'm proven wrong though.
I also hope neither are IRS. IRS is great in a sports car but I don't want it in a muscle car.


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## Bertich (Mar 7, 2007)

*advertising*



05GTO said:


> *Goat or Chicken: Will 2010 Pontiac be a Firebird or GTO?*
> Posted Jul 3rd 2007 by Frank Filipponio
> 
> 
> ...


I read everything I could get my hands on ever since I saw the first new GTO at Califronia Speedway. I was very interested since back in 1974 I bought a 1970 GTO wich I loved. I finally bought one last December. To get to the point from my first glimpse back in 2003 until I purchased mine I never saw or heard a single advertisement. Not on TV or a Magazine or Radio or even a Billboard. This is a fantastifc car and alot of car for the money. It should have sold like hotcakes. If the make the same mistake and fail to support the product with an agressive ad campaign they will meet the same fate. Compare the lack of advertising on our cars to how many mustang adds you have seen say in the last week. No wonder they are over the road. Not such a bad deal for me. I bought mine for below invoice and you hardle see any on the road. That is one of the things I love about the car but it is a shame they had to discontinue such a grear product because they were afraid to spend any money on advertising


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## gebrooks (Mar 30, 2007)

The death of Oldsmobile and Plymouth should have taught the domestics the potential pitfalls of careless badge engineering and the resulting over-saturation. On that basis, I'd worry if whatever 2-door Pontiac that springs from the Camaro or G8 platform is badged a Firebird. Given the merely whelming sales of our wonderful goats, maybe another GTO would be risky that might tarnish the name if it fails. Who knows? With the right equipment and marketing, a new Firebird or GTO might fly off lots like the '64 Mustang.

I love my '06 QSM, but it has much more to do with what the car is than with the badge on the hood, although I readily admit to a sentimental attachment to Pontons. If Pontiac wants to sell a new car on the strength of history, it has a wealth of powerful "heritage" names to draw from if they so choose (I'm thinking Super Duty, okay, not Astra). Or, maybe they should sidestep the Chevy-minded retro approach and establish a new moniker for a new, tough *****!


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## j moffett (Jul 19, 2007)

The ls3 is allready here with 430or 436 hp depending on exhaust


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

lukekeith said:


> everybody and their mother's uncle is doing the "retro" thing, that's why I love my GTO, it's DIFFERENT!!! I never liked driving boxy cars anyway, just a personal preference I guess. If they bring it back, THEY BETTER DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!! SCREW RETRO!!! Is it so much to ask a multi-billion dollar company to be original?
> ..... or something like that, GTO RULES!!!


:agree :willy: :lol:


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## GTO_Gregory (Aug 5, 2005)

GTO

Let the Firebird rest for a generation.


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## PWR_SHIFT (Feb 10, 2005)

lukekeith said:


> First of all, let me say that my goat and I are passionately in love.


Hopefully, at least, you two love birds are keeping it private . . .


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

GTO_Gregory said:


> GTO
> 
> Let the Firebird rest for a generation.


Let the Firechicken RIP! Bury the embarassment!


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Wing_Nut said:


> Let the Firechicken RIP! Bury the embarassment!


Why was it an embarassment? Because GM overpriced it? Or because people were buying trucks, cheap ass Mustangs and suv's?


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## GTO_Gregory (Aug 5, 2005)

I know I won't buy the pictured black Firebird. Yuck!


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## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

I agree and since Bert and Year One have teamed up to make a trans am that nobody can afford, it would not surprise me if Pontiac decided they do not need to produce someone else's car and go ahead with the GTO. That's what I hope happens.


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## cpowell (Mar 1, 2007)

*goat*

anybody have any idea about what the 2010 goat might look like. anybody seen pictures or drawings. i'm very curious to see what they do with the design.


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## GRR_RRR (Oct 19, 2006)

Just my guess, but by 2010 fire-breathing V-8 powered rear wheel drive cars will be dead.


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## Showgoat67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Well hopfully it will come out but with the gas prices and such looks like the 70's happening all over again.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

If a new GTO is released in 2010, do you guys think the prices of our 04-06s will drop? That would also affect the future like 10-20 years from now I was hoping the prices would be higher for mint 04-06 GTOs, Im having second thoughts about that too if they bring a new GTO out in 2010


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

*which ever they choose*

Bottom line I like Pontiac's, but I refuse to settle for something else with less horsepower than I already have. No way!!! Holdin' on to the goat.


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