# 1965 Convertible Restoration



## RobK (4 mo ago)

Hi Guys,

Just made a deal for a 65 convertible four speed. Car has been stored since 1975 and I plan to do a top to bottom restoration. This is not my first rodeo. I am a fan of the 65 GM A bodies and i was looking for a GTO after I just finished a Buick Gran sport 4spd Convert. That car was all rust and I brought it to 394 on a 400 point scale so I know what i am getting into. I am really excited about this car. The first big task will be excavating it from the "Barn" where I found it which will happen in a few weeks. It is buried deep under years worth the owner's collectibles. Clearing a path will be an all day job and will take at least four of us. I have crawled all around the car. The frame looks sound and the body has no holes which is unusual for Minnesota but I am sure there will some surprises once it is out in the sun.

PHS tells me that the car is an original tri power (long gone), so I will need to track a set down, close ratio / 3.90 rear end. Looks like It might have been painted or primed since new but I see no signs of repair. PHS also tells me it was a special order "2" paint color so i am looking forward to taking off the door sills or looking behind the rear seat to find the original color. I thank you all in advance for any tips or suggestions your willing to offer as I go through this process. My plan is to go as original as possible and get her back on the road.

Rob


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## GTOTIGR (May 3, 2020)

Hi RobK.

Nice To meet you - welcome. I believe you will receive lots of input and assistance from the group here.

Sounds like a great find. Share lots of pictures throughout the process. For starters it would be great to see you removing it and then it out in the sunlight. 

Best of luck!


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## redhotgto66 (Sep 11, 2021)

yes i love these stories, please leave pics here of draggin it kicking and screaming into the daylight again!!!
i have saved a couple goats from tree rows and its always fun to do, though i dont wanna do it again, gettin too old for that nonsense. as for the color im curious what 2 is also, i saw a custom color on a firebird from GM that was lemon yellow, so it could be anything.
good luck and take pics for us


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## RobK (4 mo ago)

Thanks for the welcome guys. I will be sure to post photos of the big dig as we pull the car out. It was interesting, when I received the PHS docs, they came with an email from PHS that simply said "This car is special paint code 2, color unknown". Some of the research results I have found suggests that there was a limited number of colors that could be special ordered for GTOs in 65 while other sites made it seem like the sky was the limit and that you could order colors from any Gm division including Cadillac.  

Rob


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## Bopman (7 mo ago)

RobK said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just made a deal for a 65 convertible four speed. Car has been stored since 1975 and I plan to do a top to bottom restoration. This is not my first rodeo. I am a fan of the 65 GM A bodies and i was looking for a GTO after I just finished a Buick Gran sport 4spd Convert. That car was all rust and I brought it to 394 on a 400 point scale so I know what i am getting into. I am really excited about this car. The first big task will be excavating it from the "Barn" where I found it which will happen in a few weeks. It is buried deep under years worth the owner's collectibles. Clearing a path will be an all day job and will take at least four of us. I have crawled all around the car. The frame looks sound and the body has no holes which is unusual for Minnesota but I am sure there will some surprises once it is out in the sun.
> 
> ...


You will find a lot of members here with a lot of knowledge.....I can guaranty that ! Me, I am just like NAPA....just 1 qt of know how! There are guys on here with gallons !!!😉👍😂😂😂😂


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## GTOTIGR (May 3, 2020)

Hi Rob,

Have you been able to view the cowl tag on the right side of the firewall? The “2” should be there in the area shown in the photo taken from Eric White’s Illustrated Identification Guide.
















The 65 Pontiac colors offered are below. I believe you are correct, if you were willing to pay for another color back in those days they would spray it. A fellow 65 GTO forum member has records showing that his car was painted a Ford Blue, as I recall. As you said, once you’re able to check in typical areas that are not repainted you’ll be able to validate the original color. One of those places for a convertible is in the trunk under the boot in the well.


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## Bopman (7 mo ago)

RobK said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just made a deal for a 65 convertible four speed. Car has been stored since 1975 and I plan to do a top to bottom restoration. This is not my first rodeo. I am a fan of the 65 GM A bodies and i was looking for a GTO after I just finished a Buick Gran sport 4spd Convert. That car was all rust and I brought it to 394 on a 400 point scale so I know what i am getting into. I am really excited about this car. The first big task will be excavating it from the "Barn" where I found it which will happen in a few weeks. It is buried deep under years worth the owner's collectibles. Clearing a path will be an all day job and will take at least four of us. I have crawled all around the car. The frame looks sound and the body has no holes which is unusual for Minnesota but I am sure there will some surprises once it is out in the sun.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum !!!!


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## RobK (4 mo ago)

GtoTgr

Thanks for the info on the colors and the resources. I was able to get a look at the Cowl Tag. It's pretty interesting. The car was built in Pontiac. The color for the top translates to black but the body code is not actually listed as just a "2" as phs indicated. Apparently PHS just use "2" as shorthand for special order paint in their email to me. On the cowl plate It's pretty Strange. It looks like a "2" (I think) with a "&" stamped right on top of it. Reading on the internet it looks like there was a variety of things from dashes to the word "spec" to 1, 2, 3's, or even blanks that Pontiac used for special order paint along with other various things.. Looking forward to getting this car out in the sun.


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## Joes1966GTO (Apr 27, 2020)

Welcome, @RobK ! You'll find an amazing wealth of knowledge with the men and women here. I've gotten tons of great advice and will likely be getting more. Just to echo what others are saying is pictures, pictures, pictures. Documenting the entire process will not only serve you well later on, but also help explain a particular question on a part or other issue. Describing something unique to the GTOs is one thing.....but showing what you are specifically referring to will go a really long way in getting good info. That said, we all just love to see your progress pics....especially with what sounds like a rare survivor that's about to get reborn. Keep the progress pictures rolling and GOOD LUCK!!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Can't wait for pics! There is a good chance it was a special order Tiger Gold car. Those seemed to be the ones ordered with performance stuff like the trips and 3.90 gears. Very rare find these days. 
40 years ago I had a Copper Blaze '66 GTO, which was a very cool special order color. About the same shade that the Chrysler Turbine cars were painted in '64.


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## RobK (4 mo ago)

I will definitely post pictures when we dig the car out of this building If get the technique down. The scheduled day is October 22. I am not exaggerating when I say it is buried in the sellers "treasures". We could not see the car when we crawled inside. The stuff inside there is piled high to the front edge of the door. I plan to have three or four of us and just clear a Gto wide opening through the stuff and slide it out of there. But although I think Gold would definitely be cool, I think this car is silver. I originally thought that car had a re-paint but now I think the paint was just flaking away after 45+ years in storage and revealing the primer in the rear quarters. The inner door opening shows some very original looking silver. But this is just a cell phone shot taken in nearly pitch black conditions. Trying to post this photo. Hopefully I succeed.


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## redhotgto66 (Sep 11, 2021)

oooooo silver with a black top is very cool, love those colors. lotsa pics for the barn part, love to see these dug out of holes !!!


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Being a special paint code, is the silver on this GTO different than what was available for a 66 GTO?


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## RobK (4 mo ago)

I would love to hear from the experts where the silver comes from on any any other 65 silver cars in the event that is known. I note on the chart above that "2" indicates its a special order Pontiac color but I wonder if the fact that they struck out the 2 with an "&" on the cowl plate was intended to indicate that it was a special order color but not a Pontiac color. But that is just a guess.


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## redhotgto66 (Sep 11, 2021)

thats very odd the & sign throws me off, never seen that


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## Duff (Jan 12, 2020)

Silver may be it's original color, but it may be a different shade of silver from a 66 Cadillac, Corvette, Olds etc...


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## RobK (4 mo ago)

PHS was good enough to answer a follow up question a couple of days ag about my cowl plate They said that that they have seen other "weird" things on tags but that they can see the 2 underneath the &..They also said they don't think the "&" has any particular meaning.. So hopefully others who have special order 65 silver GTO's might know something about the color mix that was used on other cars with this color.

Once I have it out of the barn on October 22, I will also go about the various methods to try to match the color. I will also compare the other 65 Gm colors. I guess things like this are part of the fun of restoring a nearly 60 year old unmolested classic. The gentleman I bought it from said he bought it in about 1975 and that he bought it from his late brother in law but that it has been in his building since about 1971 when it was parked due to transmission issues. He plows the snow at my shop and was looking at my 65 Buick Gran Sport 4 speed convertible and I told him I love 65 GM A bodies and that I was on the hunt for a unrestored 65 GTO 4 speed convertible. He looked at me and said "I have one of those in my outbuilding". I just about choked. His place is less than a mile from my shop. I will post pictures as I drag it out and I am sure i will have lots of questions as I am hunting parts.

RobK


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## RobK (4 mo ago)

I was able to pull the car out of the "barn". Removal was a big job because the car was buried under 50 years of items stored on top of and around it. Even this first phot was after hours of clean-out. Seller was very helpful with removal. Turns out the car was in original paint and my earlier speculation that it was partially in primer was not correct. I had only been able to see small area of the car before we started moving things out of the building. Paint had simply flaked off over time on the passenger rear quarter revealing primer. Much of that paint was on the floor. Frame, trunk floors and interior floors are solid. Minor work needed here and there on body but nothing too crazy. Car came with an NOS front driver's fender that was hanging on the wall purchased in the early 70's due to a slow speed bump that had occurred. Car was stored originally due to a tranny issue. Everything on the PHS has checked out. Original 4 speed still present, 3.90 rear end, and even the original semi metallic brakes are there. 41,XXX miles. A tri-power set up / WS is in hand and engine is being rebuilt currently. I've found a place here in Minnesota which apparently can build the metallic brake set-up on the original drums. A friend has a set of original 65 steel wheels but I am in need of some correct poverty hubcaps if anyone knows a connection. Not interested in Re-pop. The car is definitely a time capsule with lots of chalk marks and a faint outline in white of "Spec" on the fire wall for the special paint. Original pin striping, and a fair number other mfger marks. Driveshaft is pretty pitted but restorable but if anyone knows where to find a dry climate example that's available with some signs of original finish or markings I would be a buyer for sure.

The paint is pretty interesting. As the photos below show, it's a metallic silver which was not available on the 65 GTO except with special order. I learned from someone far more knowledgeable than me, that Pontiac sometimes put the mix code directly on the cowl plate for special order paint. If you look at the image of the cowl plate (see post above), there is a number on the cowl plate "95991", below the paint code entry. This car has a 2 for special order paint with a "&" stamped over it. I have spent a fair amount of time looking for 95991 to see if this number actually is a mix code. I found no GM cars that came with that mix code. By luck I found that in 65 Italian car makers were using a DuPont mix with that number called Argento Nevada Metallica. This translates to metallic silver which as you can see by the attached photos (especially the photo of the underside of the trunk which had not been opened in about 50 years), this car is definitely metallic silver. I found other sites which said that this color name (but not code) was also called other names (Argento Grigio) and said it was used on Lancias. Fiats and Ferraris. One Italian car forum stated that this mix code was used by Lancia in 1965. The other examples in the other makes were also 1965 cars which did not seem like a coincidence. I then learned that at some time in this era, the Pontiac dealer that sold this car (The dealer badge came with the car) was also a fiat dealer. So that's where i am on researching the color. 

I've taken the seats, carpet and front end off carefully. There were two pristine 1965 dimes under the carpet. I have a lot of work ahead. This is my first Pontiac and am trying go as original/correct as possible. Preserving, labeling and keeping everything down to the last washer and grommet as I dismantle the car. If anybody has a nice white 65 shifter knob they want to part with , I could use one. Somebody replaced the knob in this car with a sticky oversized plain black one. I'm on the hunt for a lot of the little things. But right now it's hubcaps, shifter knob, arm rests, rear license plate frame/door, a restorable tri power fan/finger guard and that small connector platic part to connect to the part washer line near the battery tray. Feel free to PM me if you have something. 

























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## redhotgto66 (Sep 11, 2021)

man i love seeing these stories, even though i dont wanna build one anymore, i remember the days when i would !
keep the pics coming


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