# Your Opinion, Second Thoughts



## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Some of you may know that I wanted a Maggie for my 04 GTO, well I'm having second thoughts. The plan was for the longest even before I bought the thing, to strap a Maggie on my Goat and have anywere between 450-500hp at the wheels. Well during my the time off at my folks house I began to think that 6-7K on a supercharger ahh maybe not, if I was single yes. I just want my car to be fun and I can do awhole lot with 6-7K on my car and other stuff besides just one thing. If I can get it to about 500Hp at the crank and pass Kellyfornia's smog I'm happy maybe a slim chance. I don't race my car so I can care less about 1/4 mile times that means nothing to me, pointless if your not a drag racer. I plan on taking it to the 1/4 mile next year to see what it would do and doing some road course action, road course is what I like the most.

Tenative plans is to port my stock LS1 heads or LS6 heads, new bigger cam, LS6 or larger valves, mid-pipes, may change out my LS6 valvesprings and little more suspension work. Other things I may concider is changing the stock timing set, adding a timing chain dampner, and UD pulley. I also had wild thoughts of adding 75-100 shot of Nitrous, but having hyperutetic pistons scare me. I know 500hp power at the crank is bit of a stretch on stock ported heads but its worth the try. 

I'm still open to buy a Maggie maybe a used one for a good price if I have the money, so its still on the books. I came up with $3.5K, at the most $4K, doing the work myself except the head work with out suspension mods. I'm still up in the air for suspension mods maybe around $1.5K at the most. 

What do you folks think? Drop big bucks on a supercharger, or do more with less money? If I do more with less money I can spread out the spending on my car like I've been doing.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

gm4life said:


> Some of you may know that I wanted a Maggie for my 04 GTO, well I'm having second thoughts. The plan was for the longest even before I bought the thing, to strap a Maggie on my Goat and have anywere between 450-500hp at the wheels. Well during my the time off at my folks house I began to think that* 6-7K on a supercharger *ahh maybe not, if I was single yes. I just want my car to be fun and I can do awhole lot with 6-7K on my car and other stuff besides just one thing. If I can get it to about 500Hp at the crank and pass Kellyfornia's smog I'm happy maybe a slim chance. I don't race my car so I can care less about 1/4 mile times that means nothing to me, pointless if your not a drag racer. I plan on taking it to the 1/4 mile next year to see what it would do and doing some road course action, road course is what I like the most.
> 
> Tenative plans is to port my stock LS1 heads or LS6 heads, new bigger cam, LS6 or larger valves, mid-pipes, may change out my LS6 valvesprings and little more suspension work. Other things I may concider is changing the stock timing set, adding a timing chain dampner, and UD pulley. I also had wild thoughts of adding 75-100 shot of Nitrous, but having hyperutetic pistons scare me. I know 500hp power at the crank is bit of a stretch on stock ported heads but its worth the try.
> 
> ...


Daz a lot a moan-ey.









M.O....... Unless I am racing the car or off roading with it I would not invest that kinda dough into it. To put that kind of money in to it just to stay on the street and have bragging rights, well I personally think its a lot of wasted money. The autobahns in PA have speed limits and no matter if I could get 1500 HP out of the engine just to drive it on the street, as soon as I exceed the limit eventually I would be paying the price. The higher the HP and output, the higher the fines and penalties. Just my opinion.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

gm4life said:


> Some of you may know that I wanted a Maggie for my 04 GTO, well I'm having second thoughts. The plan was for the longest even before I bought the thing, to strap a Maggie on my Goat and have anywere between 450-500hp at the wheels. Well during my the time off at my folks house I began to think that 6-7K on a supercharger ahh maybe not, if I was single yes. I just want my car to be fun and I can do awhole lot with 6-7K on my car and other stuff besides just one thing. If I can get it to about 500Hp at the crank and pass Kellyfornia's smog I'm happy maybe a slim chance. I don't race my car so I can care less about 1/4 mile times that means nothing to me, pointless if your not a drag racer. I plan on taking it to the 1/4 mile next year to see what it would do and doing some road course action, road course is what I like the most.
> 
> Tenative plans is to port my stock LS1 heads or LS6 heads, new bigger cam, LS6 or larger valves, mid-pipes, may change out my LS6 valvesprings and little more suspension work. Other things I may concider is changing the stock timing set, adding a timing chain dampner, and UD pulley. I also had wild thoughts of adding 75-100 shot of Nitrous, but having hyperutetic pistons scare me. I know 500hp power at the crank is bit of a stretch on stock ported heads but its worth the try.
> 
> ...


A nice head and cam package is always nice. But make sure you choose a cam that's blower friendly too just in case you do spring the cash for a supercharger later on. And I agree with you 100% on the track crap that always come out when someone mentions proposed engine numbers. Some think that track numbers are the only numbers that matters. What they fell to understand is that some don't give a rat's ass about how fast their car is at the track. Modding my car has always been a hobby of mine and getting higher engine numbers were just my way of making my car different if not better that a stock model. Call it a dyno queen or whatever you want. I call it mine and that's all that matter. 

Either way you choose to go bruh, I'll be there with a mallet to help you out... free of charge.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Daz a lot a moan-ey.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohh oh the wise man voice is comming out. Your right! Its my only hobbie *Judge* I like to turn wrenches, it has ate me up. I never brag about my cars, I know that someone out there has wayyyy more power than me. For me its just personal goals. I don't get crazy on the street, I play it cool. And *Judge* I even though about just leaving my car the way it is, she scoots along pretty well for what I've done so far.


6QTS11OZ said:


> A nice head and cam package is always nice. But make sure you choose a cam that's blower friendly too just in case you do spring the cash for a supercharger later on. And I agree with you 100% on the track crap that always come out when someone mentions proposed engine numbers. Some think that track numbers are the only numbers that matters. What they fell to understand is that some don't give a rat's ass about how fast their car is at the track. Modding my car has always been a hobby of mine and getting higher engine numbers were just my way of making my car different if not better that a stock model. Call it a dyno queen or whatever you want. I call it mine and that's all that matter.
> 
> Either way you choose to go bruh, I'll be there with a mallet to help you out... free of charge.


Ohh no, I better tack on an extra 1K for spare parts.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

gm4life said:


> Ohh no, I better tack on an extra 1K for spare parts.


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

gm4life said:


> Some of you may know that I wanted a Maggie for my 04 GTO, well I'm having second thoughts. The plan was for the longest even before I bought the thing, to strap a Maggie on my Goat and have anywere between 450-500hp at the wheels. Well during my the time off at my folks house I began to think that 6-7K on a supercharger ahh maybe not, if I was single yes. I just want my car to be fun and I can do awhole lot with 6-7K on my car and other stuff besides just one thing. If I can get it to about 500Hp at the crank and pass Kellyfornia's smog I'm happy maybe a slim chance. I don't race my car so I can care less about 1/4 mile times that means nothing to me, pointless if your not a drag racer. I plan on taking it to the 1/4 mile next year to see what it would do and doing some road course action, road course is what I like the most.
> 
> Tenative plans is to port my stock LS1 heads or LS6 heads, new bigger cam, LS6 or larger valves, mid-pipes, may change out my LS6 valvesprings and little more suspension work. Other things I may concider is changing the stock timing set, adding a timing chain dampner, and UD pulley. I also had wild thoughts of adding 75-100 shot of Nitrous, but having hyperutetic pistons scare me. I know 500hp power at the crank is bit of a stretch on stock ported heads but its worth the try.
> 
> ...


Hey Justin, have you considered going for a nice Heads/Cam package, and getting some Pedders for the road course? Sure would be fun, I mean just considering you haul ass on the streets, or go to the 1/4 mile. Honestly your right about getting a Maggie if you were single, but I'd say if you really do have the extra $$$ laying around..... do what makes you happy. Just consider mainly what these mods mean in the long run. Goodluck with your decision brother. :cool


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Yo bruh, I'll sell you a Maggie for $25.5K. I'll even throw the car in with. Let me know. K?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Aramz06 said:


> Hey Justin, have you considered going for a nice Heads/Cam package, and getting some Pedders for the road course? Sure would be fun, I mean just considering you haul ass on the streets, or go to the 1/4 mile. Honestly your right about getting a Maggie if you were single, but I'd say if you really do have the extra $$$ laying around..... do what makes you happy. Just consider mainly what these mods mean in the long run. Goodluck with your decision brother. :cool


Thanks man. It depends on what port work will run me on my stock heads or a set of used LS6's and gains. AFR's is out of the question that will put me back quite abit, I know you have to pay to play but Patriots seem to be the way to go if I do get a brand new set of heads. I don't want to go to far on the suspension because I love the way the GTO rides I just want to get rid of some of the sloppyness in the suspension. The first thing I want to get rid of is the bushings and I'm still up in the air about the springs and shocks/struts. Trust me it takes me along time before I drop serious coin on my car.


6QTS11OZ said:


> Yo bruh, I'll sell you a Maggie for $25.5K. I'll even throw the car in with. Let me know. K?


I give you 25.5K pesos.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I've got a friend with a heads and cam Camaro SS. He's been to the track twice with it. Because I go all the time I got better numbers out of my C6 with only 335 at the wheels versus his over 400. 

The thing of it is, 99 percent of the time his car sounds much better than anything around. There is a huge intimidation factor when a car pulls up with an LS1 with heads, cam, headers, high flow cats, and an SLP Loudmouth and it's idling at 900-1100 just so it can keep running. 

I think if your not going to track the car, the heads and cam are way more fun. In the future you can do a crank, con rod and pistons combo and then nitrous and you'll run most of the S/C cars out there and sound tons better doing it.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

fergyflyer said:


> In the future you can do a crank, con rod and pistons combo and then nitrous *and you'll run most of the S/C cars out there *and sound tons better doing it.


... until he runs out of nitrous.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GOOD QUESTION.

# 1, I have also thought about the same thing [ still do ] . yep the price of a Maggie or another form of Forced Induction comes with a steap price tag but it also offers a great HP increase for the money spent. 

# 2, If you don't do your own wrenching [ I don't ], the price tag that goes with a cam, headers, heads or head porting, intake, tune and other associated items can easily reach the price of a Maggie.

I went with item number # 2. I did this because if I went with the Forced induction only, I know shortly after that was installed, I would soon be looking for a cam, headers and who knows what . If you go with the path I took. You can do a little at a time, spend a little at a time and have fun getting to the HP level that you want having a good time seeing your car progress to the level you want.

Or just leave it the way it is. It is a great car in any form from stock, mild or wild


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

gm4life said:


> Ohh oh the wise man voice is comming out. Your right! Its my only hobbie *Judge* I like to turn wrenches, it has ate me up. I never brag about my cars, I know that someone out there has wayyyy more power than me. For me its just personal goals. I don't get crazy on the street, I play it cool. And *Judge* I even though about just leaving my car the way it is, she scoots along pretty well for what I've done so far.
> 
> 
> Ohh no, I better tack on an extra 1K for spare parts.


ahhhhhh the Hobby... Then go for it!!!!!! I know the hobby feeling, oh yea. I got that kinda $$ tied up in my other interests, I know where you're coming from. :agree


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LOWET said:


> GOOD QUESTION.
> 
> # 1, I have also thought about the same thing [ still do ] . yep the price of a Maggie or another form of Forced Induction comes with a steap price tag but it also offers a great HP increase for the money spent.
> 
> ...


Did you go with heads? I'm going to have my heads done first on my current set up to see what gains that would give me. I'm going to call a few places to see how much I have to give.

Why couldn't I have a better, cheaper tallant like basket weaving or something.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> ahhhhhh the Hobby... Then go for it!!!!!! I know the hobby feeling, oh yea. I got that kinda $$ tied up in my other interests, I know where you're coming from. :agree


Ahh your no help *JUDGE*, where is the old wise man at in you? My wife does the samething I ask for advice on controlling my hobby and I get go ahead. WHAT THE...You suspose to discurage me from spending money.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

gm4life said:


> Did you go with heads? *I'm going to have my heads done* first on my current set up to see what gains that would give me. I'm going to call a few places to see how much I have to give.
> 
> Why couldn't I have a better, cheaper tallant like basket weaving or something.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

gm4life said:


> Ahh your no help *JUDGE*, where is the old wise man at in you? My wife does the samething I ask for advice on controlling my hobby and I get go ahead. WHAT THE...You suspose to discurage me from spending money.


IM lucky...my wife is into the GTO thing, the need for speed car shows and all. I got the go ahead for the 70. The only thing that worries me is..... the surprise she'll spring on me.

You could divert your maggie funds to my foundation it won't qualify as a tax write off but the deed won't go unnoticed.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

gm4life said:


> Did you go with heads? I'm going to have my heads done first on my current set up to see what gains that would give me. I'm going to call a few places to see how much I have to give.
> 
> Why couldn't I have a better, cheaper tallant like basket weaving or something.


I kept the stock heads. Just had them ported along with my intake about 2 months ago


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


>


:lol:


GTO JUDGE said:


> IM lucky...my wife is into the GTO thing, the need for speed car shows and all. I got the go ahead for the 70. The only thing that worries me is..... the surprise she'll spring on me.
> 
> You could divert your maggie funds to my foundation it won't qualify as a tax write off but the deed won't go unnoticed.


Thats cool you got the go ahead for the 70. Why are you worried about a suprise, are you scheduled to go on Maury or Jerry Springer? I'm all about helping out the needy.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LOWET said:


> I kept the stock heads. Just had them ported along with my intake about 2 months ago


How much did it run you to have them ported? What did you have done to them?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

gm4life said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> Thats cool you got the go ahead for the 70. *Why are you worried about a suprise,* are you scheduled to go on Maury or Jerry Springer? I'm all about helping out the needy.


I believe in karma.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

gm4life said:


> I give you 25.5K pesos.


Kiss my


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Kiss my


Haha, thats cool, the crack shows through the pants and he has a tan on his butt.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

gm4life said:


> How much did it run you to have them ported? What did you have done to them?


When I had my heads done [ just a normal port job only ] I also had my intake done along with a few very minor items. Total price [ all labor ] was $1,000.00 Dyno Tune was free. The shop I use offers a life time Dyno Tune for $100.00 more then the price of a normal tune. It works out great. never have to pay for more Dyno time again. I have made good use of this deal atleast 3 times since my 1st tune


*HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE*


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## alsgto04 (Nov 21, 2007)

LOWET said:


> When I had my heads done [ just a normal port job only ] I also had my intake done along with a few very minor items. Total price [ all labor ] was $1,000.00 Dyno Tune was free. The shop I use offers a life time Dyno Tune for $100.00 more then the price of a normal tune. It works out great. never have to pay for more Dyno time again. I have made good use of this deal atleast 3 times since my 1st tune
> 
> 
> *HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE*


Do you see better gains by getting it ported than buying new heads? Or is there any difference? Thanks.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

alsgto04 said:


> Do you see better gains by getting it ported than buying new heads? Or is there any difference? Thanks.


I don't think he has ever had new heads so there's no way he can compare gains.


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## alsgto04 (Nov 21, 2007)

6QTS11OZ said:


> I don't think he has ever had new heads so there's no way he can compare gains.


True.

But i was just wondering what route would be better to go with ported or new heads i think money wise ported will be better, any one that got new heads chime in.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

alsgto04 said:


> True.
> 
> But i was just wondering what route would be better to go with ported or new heads *i think money wise ported will be better*, any one that got new heads chime in.


No doubt! That's what I would do.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

LOWET said:


> *When I had my heads done *[ just a normal port job only ] I also had my intake done along with a few very minor items. Total price [ all labor ] was $1,000.00 Dyno Tune was free. The shop I use offers a life time Dyno Tune for $100.00 more then the price of a normal tune. It works out great. never have to pay for more Dyno time again. I have made good use of this deal atleast 3 times since my 1st tune
> 
> 
> *HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE*


When mine were done I walked knock kneed for hours. :cheers:rofl:


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

alsgto04 said:


> Do you see better gains by getting it ported than buying new heads? Or is there any difference? Thanks.


I can't give you a straight answer about new heads vs ported heads. I do know I received a nice bang for the bucks on porting the stocker.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

alsgto04 said:


> True.
> 
> But i was just wondering what route would be better to go with ported or new heads i think money wise ported will be better, any one that got new heads chime in.


Porting would be better, porting stock LS1 241 heads will outflow stock 243 head and maybe just as good as a low end aftermarket head and also cheaper. Porting will run me around $500-600 and if I get larger valves around $800-900 still cheaper than getting a aftermarket head that will run me $1200-$2200.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

gm4life said:


> Porting would be better, porting stock LS1 241 heads will outflow stock 243 head and maybe just as good as a low end aftermarket head and also cheaper. Porting will run me around $500-600 and if I get larger valves around $800-900 still cheaper than getting a aftermarket head that will run me $1200-$2200.


I know I gained a lot of HP and TQ with the porting. SOTP feel is insane


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LOWET said:


> I know I gained a lot of HP and TQ with the porting. SOTP feel is insane


I don't know about hand porting, I want to find out. CNC porting gains are around 30hp and 30tq, form what I gathered from talking to people and reading on some websites. Now that the kind of gains I'm looking for. Also I read earlier today that this guy on LS1Tech gained about 30hp from having his stock 241 CNC ported, I beleave with all the bolt ons he made 417rwhp stock cam LS1 GTO.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

gm4life said:


> I don't know about hand porting, I want to find out. CNC porting gains are around 30hp and 30tq, form what I gathered from talking to people and reading on some websites. Now that the kind of gains I'm looking for. Also I read earlier today that this guy on LS1Tech gained about 30hp from having his stock 241 CNC ported, I beleave with all the bolt ons he made 417rwhp stock cam LS1 GTO.


Before I had my heads and intake ported, my 05 A/4 dynoed 397 RWHP and 435 RWTQ on a Mustang Dyno.

We had some issues when it went on the same dyno after porting. 1st run showed 430 RWHP and 450 RWTQ. When we did the 2nd run the numbers were repeated , then we did one more run. the HP and TQ curve was all over the place, it looked like a M/6 with a bad slipping clutch but I have a
A/4.
This car was on the dyno for several hours. My shop thought it might be a issue with my trans. I did not dyno it again. Took it to a trans shop , they checked it out. Nothing wrong. It shifts hard & fast with no signs of slippage anywhere. Maybe the software on the dyno was acting up. WHO KNOWS. The car feels and runs like a raped ape


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LOWET said:


> Before I had my heads and intake ported, my 05 A/4 dynoed 397 RWHP and 435 RWTQ on a Mustang Dyno.
> 
> We had some issues when it went on the same dyno after porting. 1st run showed 430 RWHP and 450 RWTQ. When we did the 2nd run the numbers were repeated , then we did one more run. the HP and TQ curve was all over the place, it looked like a M/6 with a bad slipping clutch but I have a
> A/4.
> This car was on the dyno for several hours. My shop thought it might be a issue with my trans. I did not dyno it again. Took it to a trans shop , they checked it out. Nothing wrong. It shifts hard & fast with no signs of slippage anywhere. Maybe the software on the dyno was acting up. WHO KNOWS. The car feels and runs like a raped ape


Yeah I'm sold. When you had your heads ported did you get larger valves installed?


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

gm4life said:


> Yeah I'm sold. When you had your heads ported did you get larger valves installed?


Kept everything stock, just did a port job only


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