# Historic Information/Research



## SnakeByte (Nov 1, 2014)

Hey guys,

I recently grabbed a '67 GTO but nothing historical prior export from US is known.

I've been thinking a lot for using the phs, but is it worth $75.00 international for a few "coded" sheets? I̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶p̶i̶c̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶o̶r̶y̶ ̶b̶i̶l̶l̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶l̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶i̶e̶l̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶u̶p̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶l̶e̶f̶t̶ ̶-̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶d̶o̶c̶u̶m̶e̶n̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Z̶o̶n̶e̶/̶D̶e̶a̶l̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶/̶w̶a̶s̶?̶ Found a dealer chart here

And c'mon it's 2014 and i have to print out and mail or fax in the request? Really? *sigh* :banghead:

I assume there is no other way or service to get hands on any info for my vehicle?

Kind regards
Sascha


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## DSMTiger (Nov 17, 2012)

PHS is the best I know of. They can provide thorough documentation based on your VIN. Is it worth it? I think so.


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## Red1970GTO (Jun 25, 2011)

*Phs*

 The value of the PHS Documentation depends on what your objective is: are you restoring the GTO and want to know what options were original to the car? If you buy the PHS you get a copy of the options that were ordered on your GTO (including the original prices, and the name and address of the dealer), plus *a bunch of fluff*. It's pretty expensive for what little data you actually get, but for a restorer it can be an invaluable resource.

On the other hand, if you want historic information on the '67 GTOs you're much better off looking at those books about the GTO that are available from a Bookseller (like Amazon.com).


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Other than providing options, that PHS will determine if the car is a GTO or not.

When shelling out $$$ on a car and relying on just the word of someone you don't know ........ The money spent on the PHS MAY save you a lot of money if you end up buying a fraud. 

The PHS is very valuable as it will identify the car. ESPECIALLY on the years the GTO shared the same VINs as non GTOs......

Getting a GTO? Get the PHS FIRST. Shelling out a lot of money on a GTO then for 75.00 that will identify that car not get it because it because it costs too much? That be the best 75.00 you spent. In time if you want to sell the car ...... One of the first questions a prospected GTO enthusiast will ask you: Do you have the PHS?


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## tguggino (Aug 31, 2013)

Agree on the value of phs. I have researched 64 GTOs for about 18 month. I would not even start really investigating the car without seeing or buying the phs first. There are other great resources for identifying block,head, axel ,etc codes. One is pontiac power. It is good to verify date code with car. On the forum there is a cowl tag decoder which works very well. These are no cost. Good luck. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## El Monte Slim (Sep 8, 2014)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Other than providing options, that PHS will determine if the car is a GTO or not.


On a 67 model, the VIN will tell you if it is a GTO or not.

But I agree, the PHS is nice to have to verify how the car came from the factory. Of course, the cowl tag on a 67 gives you a lot of info as well.


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## PontiacPaul (Dec 22, 2014)

*Phs*

I have known about PHS for a long time and to me its worth the price. I will be placing an order soon to get the stats on my new old 65 LEMANS i just purchased but i do agree the fax/purchase process is a bit of a pain or it would already be done. I just have to get to a fax machine.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

El Monte Slim said:


> On a 67 model, the VIN will tell you if it is a GTO or not.
> 
> But I agree, the PHS is nice to have to verify how the car came from the factory. Of course, the cowl tag on a 67 gives you a lot of info as well.


I was referencing GTOs that shared the same VIN and how the P H S would be necessary to identify it as one.


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## El Monte Slim (Sep 8, 2014)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I was referencing GTOs that shared the same VIN and how the P H S would be necessary to identify it as one.


I see how that could be a problem for those who own those model years where *GTO* was an _option_ and not a _separate_ model.

I can see where "clones" are common with these models and some form of authentication would be required. PHS would be the best source for this.


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## SnakeByte (Nov 1, 2014)

El Monte Slim said:


> I see how that could be a problem for those who own those model years where *GTO* was an _option_ and not a _separate_ model.
> 
> I can see where "clones" are common with these models and some form of authentication would be required. PHS would be the best source for this.


Agreed. In fact, my one is a true GTO according to the plates and tags. As far as it is my concern, I primarily want to know something about this specific car's history, since I don't have the original titles or other docs prior export to Europe and registration in Germany 

Well I will think about it once more...

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Kind regards
Sascha


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## 67/04gto (Jan 15, 2005)

my 2 cent is that I would spend the money just to have a ease of mind,yes the 66-71 had the vin that stated it was or wasn't a real gto.but remember if somebody has vin plates off a wrecked gto and has a same year lemans ,ive seen where somebody took the vin plates off a gto and swaped for a lemans.if you don't really look close enough you will bever notice if they been altered.


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## hooperk (May 21, 2010)

I've purchased (2) GTOs. One with PHS docs and one without. I eventually purchased PHS docs for the second car. Going forward I would buy the docs prior to considering any GTO. It gives you piece of mind that you are buying a real GTO and it will be nice to provide in the advent you want to sell.


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## bowtie30 (Aug 10, 2014)

Speaking of PHS docs, when you receive them are they crisp and clear documents or do they look like they are a poor copy of a copy? The ones I got with my car look like poor copies. Thanks.


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## chui1980 (Jun 5, 2013)

I just received my PHS documents and a couple of things struck my attention. First the color of my car is the factory one even the interior is correct. The one thing that caught my eye was the confirmation oh having what they call Performance Axle Ratio. Now I am confused because that likely does not mean is a posi axle. Let's see. Another thing is that my convertible top says to be white. I guess I must correct that to make it period correct. Wow. :smash::bannana:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

bowtie30 said:


> Speaking of PHS docs, when you receive them are they crisp and clear documents or do they look like they are a poor copy of a copy? The ones I got with my car look like poor copies. Thanks.


They're copies all I have seen are somewhat distorted.

The information is on micro film and I am surmising the distortion takes place in the transferring to copying process. 

We're luck to even get the PHS now a days considering GM operatives broke into the PHS offices were caught in the act trying to steal all the archives to destroy them by Jim Mattison and the police. He had to sue to keep what was rightfully obtained in the first place. Had he not discovered this only those with current PHS would have them and there would be no way of verifying the authenticity and they'd be worthless.

Distorted is better than none.


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## bowtie30 (Aug 10, 2014)

Thanks for the reply.


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