# Starter motor in pieces



## ragtopgoat (Sep 26, 2019)

Anyone ever see a starter motor come out of the engine like this? It started out struggling to turn the engine over, then started grinding and making a screeching noise. I pulled it out today, figuring that it needed a rebuild, but found this:











No wonder it was making a horrific sound when I tried to start the engine! A few of the teeth on the flywheel are a bit chewed up, but I think it's still usable. Thoughts?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Yeah I would replace the starter,....just kidding!

the flywheellooks ok but I would dress thos teethe with a file lightly together rid of the burrs, and make sure your torque converter bolts are all there and tight,....or clutch/Pressure plate assembly is tight. Maybe it came loose from starter mounting bolts or shims vibrated loose and flywheel tore it up.....looks fixable without too much trouble just look a little more for the cause and ensure starter bolts are torque in to spec.....no guessing.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

That type of stress fracturing usually occurs when no support bracket is used. 
Was the starter support Bracket/Brace used?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Started was not shimmed correctly to get the correct mesh between starter gear and ring gear and the starter gear chewed up the ring gear. Looks like it may have jammed and broke the nose off.

Would not use that flywheel as it is shot. It will tear up the next starter.

Install a new flywheel and shim the next starter if need be. There is also a small brace on the back of the starter that provides additional stability and support for the started. It bolts to the back of the starter and then to the engine. It may have prevented the starter nose from breaking, but if the starter gear to ring gear is not correctly clearanced, it can still chew up the ring gear as you now have. 1964-77 Pontiac (All) Models Starter Brace 1 pc


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## ragtopgoat (Sep 26, 2019)

There was no brace on the back of the starter and no shims. Although the sheet metal inspection plate was wedged between the bell housing and the starter motor. I tried to remove it to take a look before removing the starter, but was not able to without removing the starter. I assume this is not how that inspection plate is supposed to be installed? In fact, correct me if I am wrong, but this is the inspection plate, that should be removable to inspect the clutch fork, fly wheel, and starter pinion gear clearance?








The hole left side is not big enough to surround the nose of the starter motor and looks like it would interfere with the starter's engagement with the bell housing. I have a 4 spd manual transmission.


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## ragtopgoat (Sep 26, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Started was not shimmed correctly to get the correct mesh between starter gear and ring gear and the starter gear chewed up the ring gear. Looks like it may have jammed and broke the nose off.
> 
> Would not use that flywheel as it is shot. It will tear up the next starter.
> 
> ...


I am going to go with an aftermarket mini starter, which should handle this stock engine and simplify the clearance a bit. Probably doesn't need the rear brace?

Question about the flywheel: can that be replaced with the engine in the car? Any guidance on the procedure for replacing the flywheel would be greatly appreciated. 4spd manual, btw.

Thanks again, for all the help. This car is very new to me.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Yes, that is the flywheel inspection cover. It is supposed to fit over the nose of the starter. It gets installed before the starter goes on. It attaches to the bell and the bolt shown should pull the bottom section up to the opening in the bottom of the bellhousing.

I went with a RobbMc mini starter as these seem to be well recommended. You can rotate the solenoid to the bottom to get it away from the heat of the exhaust manifold, but I believe this will require you adjust your wires going to the starter. RobbMc will not accept the rear brace and I am sure no mini starter will work with one. RobbMc offers a pinion support as an extra$ add-on. I did not get one. They list the conditions in which you may want to add one. There are other mini starters as well, so you can do the search and read up on them. Here is RobbMc: RobbMc Performance Products - Pontiac Starter

I pulled up this post from the forum. It tells you how to clearance the starter pinion gear to the flywheel's ring gear. Click on it to bring it up.









Starter Clearance


Just got my engine put back in and I want to make sure my starter is lined up right. Starters have always needed a lot of shims to bring them out far enough where they would disengage properly on this engine for some reason. I tried to get it where I could stick a 1/8 inch drill bit in between...




www.gtoforum.com





Finally, you can replace the flywheel with the engine in the car. It will be basically as if you were installing a new clutch set-up. This is a basic procedure that you will be getting into: You will have to drop the driveshaft, shifter/linkage, some clutch linkage, crossmember, trans, bellhousing, clutch set-up, flywheel. You will want to replace the pilot bushing in the crank while everything is all apart. You can inspect everything and decide what to keep or replace. 

You will want to jack up the trans slightly to slide the crossmember out of the way. Then when you lower the trans with the jack, the engine will tilt. I like to use a piece of wood to wedge between the back of the head and firewall to keep the engine from tilting too far. Then I pull the trans out strong man style and drop on my chest and then to the ground. If you have a trans style jack, this is best, or a buddy to help.

If you do not have a Service Manual for your car, get one as it has the exact procedure, tips, and torque specs for the bolts. It is not a hard job, in my opinion, but I have done a number of clutches over the years. Just make sure the car is safely positioned on the jack stands and pull the battery cable to cut all power while under the car.

One thing to be aware of is to make sure the flywheel-to-crank bolts have the narrow/thin heads that will work for the aftermarket flywheel. Some are thicker and these will not sit low enough into the recess of the flywheel and will hit the pressure plate - lesson I learned.


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## ragtopgoat (Sep 26, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Yes, that is the flywheel inspection cover. It is supposed to fit over the nose of the starter. It gets installed before the starter goes on. It attaches to the bell and the bolt shown should pull the bottom section up to the opening in the bottom of the bellhousing.
> 
> I went with a RobbMc mini starter as these seem to be well recommended. You can rotate the solenoid to the bottom to get it away from the heat of the exhaust manifold, but I believe this will require you adjust your wires going to the starter. RobbMc will not accept the rear brace and I am sure no mini starter will work with one. RobbMc offers a pinion support as an extra$ add-on. I did not get one. They list the conditions in which you may want to add one. There are other mini starters as well, so you can do the search and read up on them. Here is RobbMc: RobbMc Performance Products - Pontiac Starter
> 
> ...


Thanks PJ, this is all very helpful! I have been looking at the RobbMc starter and the PowerMaster 9410. I'm impressed with Powermaster's product, but the RobbMc has a big advantage with being able to be clocked in any position. 
You mentioned a service manual, I have this one from OPGI:








If you can recommend another service manual, that would be good. This one is a bit brief on the removal/installation details. 
Thanks again!


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

That manual is about as good as you will get for the starter work. If you need more detail just do an Internet search. As to the flywheel, if the teeth look the same all the way around, then it needs to be changed now. If it is only one area you MIGHT get by, but as stated above, you risk damaging the new starter. One time or another that flywheel must be changed. I do believe the root cause of the problem was not having enough tooth clearance on the starter. It's a pain to measure on the car, but it's a necessity. I hammer out a paper clip the the right dimension, make a 90 degree bend, and shove it in place with long needle nose pliers. As to the starter support, in the 56 years I have been running Pontiacs, I have never used one and I've never had a problem. As long as the starter was shimmed properly.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

I use the Robb Mc mini starter Gen II,.....I clock it on the bottom in the wind stream and away from rising heat!......Great product


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Good choice. I've used several different manufacturers of mini starters, and I still have several spares at home. I haven't used the Robb Mc, but I wouldn't hesitate to. I don't think it was available when I was going through my issues.


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