# Wheels, tires, sway bars & Mufflers



## sbutler (Nov 4, 2009)

i am restoring my stock '65 GTO Conv, 4sp, 360 tri-power. I currently have 15" rally II wheels and want to replace with 15" Rally I wheels. What are the tire sizes you would recommend and width wheel? Suggestions on sway bars without spending a fortune? I also am replacing my exhaust system from header back. Recommendations on a good performing quite muffler? 
thanks -SB


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## Gran Turismo (Jan 12, 2010)

I think correct Rally 1s for 1965 would be 14" not 15" (I could be wrong).
Rally 2s became Rally 1s in 1967 from memory :confused. It depends how correct you wanna be with the car' most people go 15" for 64 - 66 cars for appearance.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

If you're after the staggered look of wider tires in the rear, a 8-9" wheel will work with a 295-315x60 tire. I think the backspace needs to be 4.75-5.0 I would use 6-7" in the front with 225-235x60 tire. If you want a somewhat stock look a 7" wheel and 225-235 tire all around is close.
Rukee has some really wide rears on his that don't rub. He can probably let you know what the backspace is.
Can't say on a say bar. There are several to pick from in the aftermarket but they are all quite proud of their product.
Exhaust now days just blows me away. Aluminized steel at $350-450 and stainless from there up!!! I bought a cheap "will fit" kit for my 70 Chevelle from Summit for $225. It took a day to fabricate it to fit but it does fit fairly well and is too quiet for me. I had to cut most of the pipes for length and have a chop saw. If I had to make all those cuts by hand, I would still be out there.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Rally One wheels were all 14 inches in diameter. They were made thru the 1969 model year. I've seen them on original '69 Leman's when the cars were almost new. (and when I was almost new!) I've run 225/70/R-14 tires on my GTO's forever, and they work very well: good handling, good ride quality, good appearance, and they are the stock diameter so they don't throw off your speedometer calibration. I just recently put 15 inch reproduction Rally I's on the back of my '65, and they have 225/70/15's on them. My speedo is now slow with the one inch taller tire. If I were in your place, I'd probably run 15 inch repro rally ones with a 225/70 series tire. Wide enough to look cool, but not so wide as to mess up your cruisability. As for exhaust, the possibility is endless. I had Corvair Turbo Mufflers installed on my '65 in 1988, and they sound just right to me (I don't care for flowmaster-type noise--gets old on road trips). I also have a stock system on my '67, and it's whisper quiet, which I like for that car. Have fun!


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## VettenGoat (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, here's the "rub". I'm running into this same issue with my 65 (see ("Spaced out" thread). I have 15" Rally I s on the rear with 235 70 15s and I am getting some rub going around corners at speed. I did NOT have this problem when I was running a post 67 rear which was an 1" wider. The rub started when I put a correct 65 year back into the car while using the same tires. So I think GeeteOGuy has it right on the money when he recommends 225 x 70 x15s. I'm just trying to think if I can turn this into an excuse to buy a set of Redlines (that my wife might agree to............NOT.)

Cheers 'n gears//Mike


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

VettenGoat said:


> Well, here's the "rub". I'm running into this same issue with my 65 (see ("Spaced out" thread). I have 15" Rally I s on the rear with 235 70 15s and I am getting some rub going around corners at speed. I did NOT have this problem when I was running a post 67 rear which was an 1" wider. The rub started when I put a correct 65 year back into the car while using the same tires. So I think GeeteOGuy has it right on the money when he recommends 225 x 70 x15s. I'm just trying to think if I can turn this into an excuse to buy a set of Redlines (that my wife might agree to............NOT.)
> 
> Cheers 'n gears//Mike


Where are your tires rubbing? On the inside edge by the frame?
I'm running 15"s with 295/50/15s with the 4 3/4 backspacing(I believe) and get some slight rubbing on the outsides of the tires in corners and with people in the back when I nail the throttle untill I installed a set of drag bags and run just enough air to stiffen the rear end without lifting it. Cured about 99% of the rubbing. I also trimmed the inside edge of the fender well and wheel openeing molding.


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## DaleGolds (Oct 25, 2010)

If you are looking for wider tires that have the same stock height so the speedo isn't off you can go with 215/65/15 or 235/60/15. They are both within .1" of the stock tire. The combination of the 215/65/15 on the front and the 235/60/15 on the rear of a 65 looks really good. I have heard of others running 235/60/15 on all four wheels without a problem. The 15" rims also gives you the space needed to upgrade to disk brakes if you ever decide to do that. The stock 14" Rally I rims will not work with disk brakes.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Dale, '67 thru '69 GTO's came with 14 inch Rally Ones and disc brakes were optional with that wheel. I seem to remember that the disc-brake rally one rims had a slight different offset to clear the caliper. I have nothing to verify that. But, Rally one cars DID indeed come with disc brakes when new...


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## DaleGolds (Oct 25, 2010)

I could be wrong then. I was always under the impression that 14" Rally I rims that were made for cars prior to disk brakes (66 and older) would not work with disk brakes without getting 15" rims. Of course there is a lot of bad information out there and that might only apply to the aftermarket disk brake conversion kits.
Dale


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

DaleGolds said:


> I could be wrong then. I was always under the impression that 14" Rally I rims that were made for cars prior to disk brakes (66 and older) would not work with disk brakes without getting 15" rims. Of course there is a lot of bad information out there and that might only apply to the aftermarket disk brake conversion kits.
> Dale


Ah... not so, grasshoppah...

My 69 had factory front disc brakes and 14" Rallye II's. There were actually different versions of the Rallye II wheel --- some would fit on the front with factory disc, some wouldn't.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I think sbutler wants to run the Rally I wheels...that's why the question.....and I could _swear_ that 30 years ago I saw a set of Rally I wheels on a disc car that had vents that were shaped a little differently to duct air to the rotors....I could be hallucinating, tho'....


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## DaleGolds (Oct 25, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> Ah... not so, grasshoppah...
> 
> My 69 had factory front disc brakes and 14" Rallye II's. There were actually different versions of the Rallye II wheel --- some would fit on the front with factory disc, some wouldn't.
> 
> Bear


So I guess my information was part right. My information was mainly for the early 14" Rally I rims. I figured the Rally II rims were made to work with disk brakes since you could get them with cars that had front disk brakes. When I put the aftermarket disk brake conversion on my 65 there was a note in bold print that said the disk brakes would not work with 14" factory rims and you would have to run 15" rims or 14" rims made for disk brakes. So I bet you are right that some were made for disk brake applications and some were not.
Dale


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

DaleGolds said:


> So I guess my information was part right. My information was mainly for the early 14" Rally I rims. I figured the Rally II rims were made to work with disk brakes since you could get them with cars that had front disk brakes. When I put the aftermarket disk brake conversion on my 65 there was a note in bold print that said the disk brakes would not work with 14" factory rims and you would have to run 15" rims or 14" rims made for disk brakes. So I bet you are right that some were made for disk brake applications and some were not.
> Dale


Some of it's probably the brakes themselves too. On my 69 now I'm going with Wilwood Dynalite Pro 4-piston on all 4 wheels, and they won't fit with 14-inch wheels. 

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

And I'm not sure about the '67-'68 factory 4-piston brake calipers as opposed to the '69- up single piston caliper dimensions. I have seen an original '69 LeMans (this was in '79) that was original owner, had Rally 1 wheels, and disc brakes. Too long ago to remember, but I think the slots were kind of flared on one end to duct air to the rotors, as I've said. Whatever, it sounds like you're doing your homework, so you should be fine!! I'll have to throw one of my '65 rally one wheels on my pals '67 GTO with '69 front disc brakes and see if it fits!!


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## Squidtone (Nov 26, 2010)

Guys, I'll chime in here about the 14 inch wheels as I went through the same fitment issues when I first bought my GTO. (My 67 has the 4 piston calipers)
I have checked 4 different years of original 14" rally one wheels and they all had the same dimensions and backspacing, so any year rally one wheels DO fit the original 4 piston caliper disc brakes. So I'm confident they'll fit factory A-body single piston calipers, as they're not fat at all on the outboard side. In fact the space afforded by the rally one center section is much better than any 14" rally II wheel, at least as far as how far the caliper sticks outboard. 

And, I find it really cool that Geeteeohguy mentions the mystery rally one wheels. I can attest that I saw a set in person once at the Carlisle PA swap meet in 88, 89 or some time like that. They guy selling them wanted something like 4x the normal price for these wheels. The slots DID have funky non uniform flares, shaped like a scoop on one end. I have not ever seen or heard of these versions since then. They did not look homemade. I've always wondered what the heck they were since I've never heard a peep in any book or magazine about this kind of wheel. My impression was that they were absolutely Pontiac rally one wheels with a subtle scoop design.
As for Rally II wheels, I only know about the ones intended for A body cars. In 67, the two codes used on GTOs were JA and JC. These wheels are the exact same of each other EXCEPT the center section on the JA wheel is welded a bit further outboard. So JA or JC wheels both fit the 4 piston calipers. The only difference would be the "track" of the car being narrower for the JA equipped cars. Why do some 14" Rally II's fit and others don't? It's because the center section used on the early Rally II wheels, in particular the JA and JC are different from later Rally II wheels in that the lug hole pockets are drawn deeper, thus making more clearance where the spokes are for calipers. This allows these code wheels to be used on the big, fat, wide 4 piston calipers. I don't know what code wheels changed to a shallower pocket since I've never gotten my hands on the myriad of later Rally II wheel codes, but I do know that, for instance, the 14x6 code HN Rally II wheel of the 70's has shallower lug hole pockets. The difference is about 1/4 of an inch. So for some reason, once Pontiac switched all their cars over to the single piston caliper, they decided to make all their Rally II wheel centers with a shallower lug hole pocket (although they still used the JA code at least until the end of 69?)
To redeem myself for going off track from the OP's question, I will get back on track and add my two cents about a cool possibility of finding cheap swaybars:
My neighbor was throwing away his Buick Grand National sway bars, relatively huge, meaty swaybars, front and rear. I took them and found the front to be a perfect match for my 67 GTO. The rear did not match, but then I found that they can be made to fit by making an easy bracket to adapt them to the LCA of the GTO. I found a dude, B-man, (who some of you may recognize), had a nice writeup about it here (hope link works)...
Taking the plunge: LS3 into '64 Tempest. Need help with shopping list. - Page 2 - LS1TECH
Scroll down a bit and check out the simple brackets he made. I believe that's a G-body sway bar made to fit an A body. A side benefit is that the bar is now elegantly tucked up closer to the pumpkin and doesn't hang down like so many cheesy aftermarket bars I see. I'd imagine finding a junk 80's G-body car with some nice sway bars is still relatively easy.
Good luck!


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Hope I didn't throw away that g-body bar away that I pulled for my 66 and seen It didn't fit. All good info here.

I have a 84 Grand Prix LE that has been sitting for years and starting to bring it back to life today. It was a very nice car back in 95. To bad I didn't have room for it in the barn back at the old house. Still an easy car to get back up to snuff. It has big front and rear sway bars. A 305H.O. what ever that is worth  and power every thing. Going to get it going for my 18 year old son why we redue the 78 S.E. Trans am.


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