# Aftermarket Air Conditioning on a '66



## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

I'm looking at A/C systems for a '66, and it seems that there's only one specifically for the car (classic auto air). It looks like I would have to order parts separately through Vintage Air (or do they have a universal kit?). Has anyone installed either system (not had a shop do it)? And can anyone comment on one vs. the other?


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

i installed a vintage air in a 67 chevelle. it worked fine but looked really cheap. my dad is installing vintage air in his 64 impala right now. im glad my tempest is an a/c car. dont let them convince you that it is not a big job. lots of work.


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

thanks for the reply. I will be doing a bunch of work to the car, including wiring, so i know there will be lots of work involved.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Recommend Vintage or Hot Rod air.....do a google search and you'll find both...not a lot of difference. I ended up with Vintage because I used an installer and that was his preference, he ordered the Chevelle kit and asked Vintage to ship different vents. 

I love it, works really nice and looks good: http://www.gtoforum.com/f12/vintage-air-installed-20632/

Rick


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## my62toy (Jul 15, 2009)

Like others, I installed Vintage Air in my 62 Corvette. With a black interior, it looks like it's a factory air system. Cools well!


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Here's my plan. I have some factory dash vents and lap coolers for my 67 GTO. I am going to nnstall them in my non factory A/C car and use Vintage Air. Since I am doing a resto mod, and want a semi-original interior look, I am gonna use vintage's control head. They can adapt a 66-67 non A/C control to work your new system CALL them and talk to engineering. You don't have to use thier vents.:cheers


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Same plan on my 67 convert, just not the factory side vents, but a factory a/c dash and a/c controls. I will use a factory lap vent with some lower side vents I haven't found yet.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

heres mine installed- I used factory side vents and the two rectangle ones supplied by VA for the center- I am relocating my radio so I put them in the radio hole. you will need to cover the factory firewall hole with something,and you lose some glovebox space- i believe the Classic Auto Air supplies the fire wall cover and a new glovebox in their kit but not sure, and you do use your old controls. The vintage system has electronic controls but and old school look, the box takes up more room than the factory one because it is all in the passenger compartment, but you do not see it when sitting in the drivers seat:cheers


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I checked out the classic auto air, and it does include a modified glovebox and f/w cover, but you're right that you have to use your factory control.

crusty, what vintage air kit did you buy? or did you piece it together? and i dig on the factory side vents w/ VA centers in the radio hole. i take it you had to drill out the dash for the side vents?

edit: love the 'ABS' brake pedal too. are you retrofitting abs on the car?


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Crusty, LOOKING GOOD!! Is that an IDIDIT steering column, and if so how did the install go?? Thanks, Eric


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

I just got a GEN II kit with the controls and box- I am supplying my own compressor and lines, I did have to cut the holes for side vents( non a/c dash)and I did not like the look of the vents under dash and the hoses were going to be in the way of the stereo so stereo goes in center console.
The column is a Flaming rivers and install was EZ- I used the factory column bracket with some 1/8 adhesive backed rubber( no rattles) and I used the original firewall plate with a section of 2" ID hose that I trimmed a little off the outside to fit, all I need to complete is a DD shaft and a universal joint. I had a slight concern about getting a collapsible shaft but the column has a 7 inch socket, more than enough for that.


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

damn, the Gen II kit doesn't come with much, does it? you've gotta supply (or buy separately) the compressor, condenser, dryer, and lines. it's amazing the lack of aftermarket support for what i assumed was a fairly popular muscle car.

I agree re: underdash vents. I would prefer to drill the dash and install factory-style outer vents, and i'll probably steal your idea of the center vents in the radio opening. It certainly won't be as nice looking though, i can tell you that!


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Hookem

Did you look at the 64 - 67 Chevelle kit? Has everything. Also, don't rule out Hot Rod Air ( http://www.hotrodair.com/ ), their systems are as good as Vintage. Both companies are within 3 miles of my house

Rick


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

yeah, i'll be looking at either. i'd like to go with an electric kit over classic auto air's cable operated system, but it looks like the VA surefit kits are cable as well. i've emailed all three companies and haven't found any clear answers. i also tried to call hot rod air, but none of their numbers work.

crusty, what dash is that? i see covan's doesn't make a dash kit for the gto, and i may be in the market for something like what you've got since the '66s is pretty rugged.
EDIT: Just found it - wow, that is some great work bro. I wish I had some $$$ to employ you to make some CF stuff for me.
EDIT II: you need to update your build thread too.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Hook, CALL Vintage Air and talk to the tech dept.....I did they will set you straight. They will also convert your controls for you (for a price). Eric


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

Vintage referred me to Todd's GTOs (818-879 3965). I called him and he set me up with a Gen IV system for a great price. I'll be looking to do 64-65 side dash bezels and deflectors (can't find the '66-67 bezel anywhere). The system looks nearly factory (just need to modify the stock heater box to hide most of the lines). Next up is figuring out a vendor for the wiring and I'll be about set.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

?? what wiring , my kit came with all the wires except 1 (neg)wire I had to run to the battery-
thanks for the comments on the cf and I update all the time-just with new threads usually


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

hookemdevils22 said:


> Vintage referred me to Todd's GTOs (818-879 3965). I called him and he set me up with a Gen IV system for a great price. I'll be looking to do 64-65 side dash bezels and deflectors (can't find the '66-67 bezel anywhere). The system looks nearly factory (just need to modify the stock heater box to hide most of the lines). Next up is figuring out a vendor for the wiring and I'll be about set.


The 64-65 side bezels are nice! CHROME! The 66-67 Bezels are dash color and have chrome vent balls in them. I might have a pair around here some where. IMO the 64-65 ones look nicer. E


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

those balls would be perfect for some spray on chrome!


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## take5 (Aug 9, 2009)

Who has the '64 -'65 side chrome bezels? I would like to order a set.
Are they carried by Vintage Air?
Thanks.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

I am still waiting for a call back ...will try tomorrow. YES chrome spray seems like a good means of applying chrome to A/C balls.....now if we could just get a call back.....If any of you Chromers want to chrome our balls, please let us know!!!!!!!!!!


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

PY carries the the "chrome balls" for 64-65s:

RPI730 1964-65 AC VENT BALL.............................................$20.00/ea
RPI731 1964-65 HOUSING, Vent ball chrome.........................$29.00/ea

Pretty sure Ames does too

Rick


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

crustysack said:


> ?? what wiring , my kit came with all the wires except 1 (neg)wire I had to run to the battery-
> thanks for the comments on the cf and I update all the time-just with new threads usually


not a/c wiring... a complete harness for the car. i'm considering rewiring the thing because there are a few 'areas of improvement'. since this is going to be a semi-DD, i will be adding modern creature comforts down the road (power windows, door locks, ls2/t56, etc. etc.), and i'd like a system that will be able to control all that. i'm seriously thinking about the isis multiplex system, but i'm still on the fence due to the price.

i saw the balls/bezels thru ames. pontiac heaven is this weekend (how convenient!) in surprise, so i'm going to make a trek tomorrow (even though it's about 90 min from me). i need a bunch of trim, center console, and other little things as well, so what better opportunity to see if i can find anything?

re: chrome balls. i agree that the 64-65 look better, but i'm a fan of the brushed look. i have access to a glass bead blaster that makes wicked awesome. a little clear coat on top and i'll be in business.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

I have heard very good things about the isis systems, I was gonna recommend pt forum for the group buy but looks like you missed it


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

ya, missed gb #2. a guy on pt offered me his NIB isis kit for just under the group buy price. i think i'll go that route.

headed up to pontiac heaven at speedworld today to find some trim, etc. i believe todd from todd's gtos will be there, so i'll hopefully get to chat more with him about the VA system and hopefully see it installed.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

That ISIS system looks tooooooo electronic for me ! But I am from the "old days"..... I can't even figure out what it does.:confused


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

basically a microprocessor that controls everything based on switch input- turn your key to start and the "switch" signal is to turn on the starter solenoid so instead of having the 12 volt 20 amps run from the battery to the fuse block to the ignition switch to the solenoid - a miliamp signal goes from the ignition switch to the ISIS control then to a relay and the 12 v 20 amps runs from the battery to the solenoid- eliminating about half of your wires- of course I heard about this way after I had my Painless wiring harness


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

plus you have near infinite control over your electronics. for example, dimming the dome light over a few seconds when you shut the door, keeping an electric fan on for a bit after you shut the engine off, or having the windows roll down when you turn off the security shutoff. you can even control pretty much anything via the key fob. it's pretty ridiculous.

since my '66 doesn't have an ignition switch or lock cylinder, i plan to use a push button start with no key. the nice thing is you can kill the ignition remotely, so no need for keys. I'd like to eventually go full keyless, and setup the doors/deck lid with remote door poppers and power locks.

this pro-touring.com thread has basically all the links and info you need on the system.

i love old cars (my current collection: Goat, '71 Nova LSx, '72 Scout II which i'm selling to pay for the gto build), but I also love technology, and i want the best of both worlds - classic muscle with modern amenities. thus why i'm going with an electronic VA system and ISIS wiring on the '66 - and plan on a modern GTO interior/drivetrain down the road.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

So it is basically a high tech relay/rehostat type device that controls the electrical system that already exists?:confused


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

well yes and no- you would not add this in to a regular wiring harness, you install this instead of re doing the old style


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I've herd of remote readers now. Bad guys wait till you pull up and use the remote. They have a gizmo that 'sees' the signal frequency and records it. After you leave they program a key fob in their car, walk up to yours and 'pop' the doors right open.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

welcome to 2005 - when this article was written
ANALYSIS

Let's say you just bought a Mercedes S550 — a state-of-the-art, high-tech vehicle with an antitheft keyless ignition system.

After you pull into a Starbucks to celebrate with a grande latte and a scone, a man in a T-shirt and jeans with a laptop sits next to you and starts up a friendly conversation: "Is that the S550? How do you like it so far?" Eager to share, you converse for a few minutes, then the man thanks you and is gone. A moment later, you look up to discover your new Mercedes is gone as well.

Nowadays, decrypting one 40-bit code sequence can not only disengage the security system and unlock the doors, it can also start the car — making the hack tempting for thieves. The owner of the code is now the true owner of the car. And while high-end, high-tech auto thefts like this are more common in Europe today, they will soon start happening in America. Unfortunately, manufacturers of keyless devices don't seem to care.

Wireless or contactless devices in cars are not new. Remote keyless entry systems — those black fobs we all have dangling next to our car keys — have been around for years. While the owner is still a few feet away from a car, the fobs can disengage the auto alarm and unlock the doors; they can even activate the car's panic alarm in an emergency.

First introduced in the 1980s, modern remote keyless entry systems use a circuit board, a coded radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology chip, a battery and a small antenna. The last two are designed so that the fob can broadcast to a car while it's still several feet away.

The RFID chip in the key fob contains a select set of codes designed to work with a given car. These codes are rolling 40-bit strings: With each use, the code changes slightly, creating about 1 trillion possible combinations in total. When you push the unlock button, the keyfob sends a 40-bit code, along with an instruction to unlock the car doors. If the synced-up receiver gets the 40-bit code it is expecting, the vehicle performs the instruction. If not, the car does not respond.

A second antitheft use of RFID is for remote vehicle immobilisers. These tiny chips, embedded inside the plastic head of the ignition keys, are used with more than 150 million vehicles today. Improper use prevents the car's fuel pump from operating correctly. Unless the driver has the correct key chip installed, the car will run out of fuel a few blocks from the attempted theft. (That's why valet keys don't have the chips installed; valets need to drive the car only short distances.)

One estimate suggests that since their introduction in the late 1990s, vehicle immobilisers have resulted in a 90 percent decrease in auto thefts nationwide. But can this system be defeated? Yes.

Keyless ignition systems allow you the convenience of starting your car with the touch of a button, without removing the chip from your pocket or purse or backpack. Like vehicle immobilisers, keyless ignition systems work only in the presence of the proper chip. Unlike remote keyless entry systems, they are passive, don't require a battery and have much shorter ranges (usually six feet or less). And instead of sending a signal, they rely on a signal being emitted from the car itself.

Given that the car is more or less broadcasting its code and looking for a response, it seems possible that a thief could try different codes and see what the responses are. Last fall, the authors of a study from Johns Hopkins University and the security company RSA carried out an experiment using a laptop equipped with a microreader. They were able to capture and decrypt the code sequence, then disengage the alarm and unlock and start a 2005 Ford Escape SUV without the key. They even provided an online video of their "car theft".

But if you think that such a hack might occur only in a pristine academic environment, with the right equipment, you're wrong.

Real-world examples
Meet Radko Soucek, a 32-year-old car thief from the Czech Republic. He's alleged to have stolen several expensive cars in and around Prague using a laptop and a reader. Soucek is not new to auto theft — he has been stealing cars since he was 11 years old. But he recently turned high-tech when he realised how easily it could be done.

Ironically, what led to his downfall was his own laptop, which held evidence of all his past encryption attempts. With a database of successful encryption strings already stored on his hard drive, he had the ability to crack cars he'd never seen before in a relatively short amount of time.

And Soucek isn't an isolated example. Recently, footballer David Beckham had not one, but two, antitheft-engineered BMW S5 SUVs stolen. The most recent theft occurred in Madrid, Spain. Police believe an auto theft gang using software instead of hardware pinched both of Beckham's BMWs.

How a keyless car gets stolen isn't exactly a state secret — much of the required knowledge is Basic Encryption 101. The authors of the Johns Hopkins/RSA study needed only to capture two challenge-and-response pairs from their intended target before cracking the encryption.

In an example from the paper, they wanted to see if they could swipe the passive code off the keyless ignition device itself. To do so, the authors simulated a car's ignition system (the RFID reader) on a laptop. By sitting close to someone with a keyless ignition device in his pocket, the authors were able to perform several scans in less than one second without the victim knowing. They then began decrypting the sampled challenge-response pairs. Using brute-force attack techniques, the researchers had the laptop try different combinations of symbols until they found combinations that matched. Once they had the matching codes, they could then predict the sequence and were soon able to gain entrance to the target car and start it.

In the case of Beckham, police think the criminals waited until he left his car, then proceeded to use a brute-force attack until the car was disarmed, unlocked and stolen.

Hear no evil, speak no evil
The authors of the Johns Hopkins/RSA study suggest that the RFID industry move away from the relatively simple 40-bit encryption technology now in use and adopt a more established encryption standard, such as the 128-bit Advanced Encryption Standard (AES). The longer the encryption code, the harder it is to crack.

The authors concede that this change would require a higher power consumption and therefore might be harder to implement; and it wouldn't be backward-compatible with all the 40-bit ignition systems already available.

The authors also suggest that car owners wrap their keyless ignition fobs in tin foil when not in use to prevent active scanning attacks, and that automobile manufacturers place a protective cylinder around the ignition slot. This latter step would limit the RFID broadcast range and make it harder for someone outside the car to eavesdrop on the code sequence.

Unfortunately, the companies making RFID systems for cars don't think there's a problem. The 17th annual CardTechSecureTech conference took place this past week in San Francisco, and ZDNet UK sister site CNET News.com had an opportunity to talk with a handful of RFID vendors. None wanted to be quoted, nor would any talk about 128-bit AES encryption replacing the current 40-bit code anytime soon. Few were familiar with the Johns Hopkins/RSA study we cited, and even fewer knew about keyless ignition cars being stolen in Europe.

Even Consumer Reports, a prominent consumer publication in the US, acknowledges that keyless ignition systems might not be secure enough, yet the RFID industry adamantly continues to whistle its happy little tune. Until changes are made in the keyless systems, any car we buy will definitely have an ignition key that can't be copied by a laptop.


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

the thing with the ISIS system is that you can control anything in the vehicle with the key fob, and you have near infinite customizability (is that even a word?). for example, you can have daytime running lights that dim out over 10-20 seconds after engine shut down, or a dome light that can do the same when you shut the doors. you can also have an e-fan startup slowly to avoid the initial voltage spike when it kicks on.

what i'm looking to do is go with a completely keyless system - it has logic built in to where you can install a single momentary push button switch that, when pressed once, acts as if the key were in the 'on' position. press and hold, and it energizes the starter solenoid. press again, and it turns off the engine. the push button doesn't even need to be meant specifically for such 3-way function, or even rated for very high amperage - each of the switches become switches to ground for a small amount of amperage (we're talking milliamps) sent by the mastercell (or brain) of the system. when it reads a grounded circuit, it sends a signal to the appropriate power cell to energize the appropriate function. it's a very impressive system.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Now I am really a-scared ! But I was thinking of a push button start also, I saw one in a Lincoln commercial.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

push button start is really simple. now remote start......gotta make it pump the gas pedal:lol:


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

remote start = tell the kid to go out and fire her up for ya! of course that's the expensive solution.


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hey, can anyone explain how the a/c vent balls fit in the bezel for a 64-65? I've installed the bezels, but can't seem to figure out how the ball fits and STAYS in.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

yes this is a tricky one- i took a piece of 3/8 thick wall pvc and machined a bevel onto it then inserted that into the back of bezel and held it in place with a couple 10-24 machine screws, I also siliconed in in place so all the air came thru the vent I dont have any pics but see attached drawing. cant remember what size pipe but you get the picture( hopefully)


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## hookemdevils22 (Mar 27, 2010)

Yeah - the bevel is to allow the ball to rotate. The bezel has provisions for screws, so that shouldn't be an issue. That shouldn't be an issue to do. Thanks!


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