# 69 Judge-need your opinions, please



## joeflyer (Jul 31, 2006)

I found a '69 carousel red/black Judge for sale. It has the original drivetrain, 12-bolt rear, hideaways, PS and PB. It is missing all the ram-air parts, has minimal rust-no holes, but needs a bunch of bodywork. To be finished correctly, it needs a full interior kit, both bumpers, a hood and the ram-air bits. Is this car worth fixing, and if so, care to guess what it should sell for? The owner is planning to get it appraised soon, but I would like to make him an offer before then. I have photos.


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## gtx76 (Jun 29, 2006)

Really need to see photo's. If you plan a full factory restore it's gonna cost. How much total investment are you willing to do?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*What is the asking price? My opinion is: put into it as much as your budget allows. You will most probably never get out of it price wise, what you put into it. Sell it for as much as you can regardless what anyone tells you. 

If you ask Barrett Jackson prices like so many people do, you may be disappointed. Don't lose your head pricing it.

I want one in the worse way but will not pay what most are asking... If it were me..... I'd fix it up... get the body as perfect as you can with paint and markings etc. Have paperwork that shows it's a Judge.... make it run-able with everything in working order... Make the interior as close to perfect as possible and then market it. You should make out pretty good. If you put a fortune into it you may never get a fortune for it. 

This is just my opinion, I'd market it for the price most can afford not shooting for the stars with every bolt replaced, unless of course price is no object. Show some Pics!! *


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Here is a copy and paste from www.traderonline.com for 1969 GTO judges. Clones are going in the $20K range and numbers matching Judges are going for as high as $125K.




> 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $84,900
> 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), Original Georgia Ram air 3, numbers matching February build, rust free, now features the awesome Ram Air 4, 4 speed 430 rear, protecto plate, frame off restoration. Nothing but the best, all original sheet metal. Would be Saturday car at Barrett Jackson Auction. 'YOU BE… Phone: (610) 583-3172
> 
> Placed: 21-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILS
> ...


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## joeflyer (Jul 31, 2006)

I could probably buy the car for between $10K and $15K, but it would need $20K in parts and repairs to get in a decent condition. I can't do the bodywork and paint, and that's about half the cost. I could take the car to a restorer, pay a small fortune to have all the work done and have a beautiful car worth $60 grand, but I would probably have $50K in it. I wouldn't buy the car for an investment-real estate is better, but for $25K I could buy a very nice '66-'70 ready to drive. I'll get some pictures up tonight.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Do you have access to the VIN and data plate numbers?


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## joeflyer (Jul 31, 2006)

I have both the VIN and data plate numbers in hand. I will probably get PHS docs for the car, but the owner, who is a friend of a friend, not a total stranger, says he has a build sheet and other paperwork for the car.


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## joeflyer (Jul 31, 2006)

*Photos*

The photo uploads have not been approved, yet, so here is a link to a Yahoo photo album:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/navybluecorvette/album?.dir=/2679scd&.src=ph&.tok=ph.5oRFBmdIUl5uV


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## arch&69 (Jul 9, 2006)

Okay, buy the car at 15Gs or so. Look at OPG. They have done pretty good fro me. One problem they sent me two right side door weatherstrips in the package instead of one for each side, and it does take a little time to get stuff to az. Here's a list of stuff to do, and apprx. prices, most rounded up.
Hotchkis total vehicle handling package $1400

Interior stage 3, $1332. 
Have someone put it all together, another $1000. Console, another $200. That dash looks awesome!!! Well compared to mine, water dripped through the missing front glass of my 69 for a decade, the foam warped and split down to metal over the gauges. That looks like it just needs light refurbish. Put the console in yourself, I did and it was an easy perfect fit. I also did all the interior upholstery, carpet and door panels except for the headliner and the sail panels. But all that was really time consuming. It looks perfect, how I want it, but it was a difficult process.

Engine rebuild $3500 at a shop for a performance rebuild. Less for refurbishing and using all original parts.
Usually, most of the rear end components are still in great condition, so probably won’t need much attention.
Ram Air components $2800. Fairly simple installations. 

Body and paint 5000. New underside paint 1000. New decals, 300

New grills, $300. The old plastic tends to become brittle and break.

Hood $500.

Might need a Rear window- trunk steel panel, $80. Also, look in the trunk for rust damage. When you open the trunk, look up at the steel panel under the rear window panel just above the trunk hindges, it will probably have rusted through, if not you have found an easily restorable car. This is usually rusted all the way through in places, compromising the integrity of the entire rear of the car. You can’t even let the weight of the trunk close from half open, because, in some cases, will snap that piece and fold the fenders in with it.  :willy: I saw it happen at a junkyard to a 69 that needed to be put to rest. The idiot owner of the junkyard slammed the trunk down.

The hidaway headlights might be a really tough job because only some of the parts are reproduced. If you are missing some of the parts you may have to go to the ends of the earth to get them.

Both of those bumpers look like they can be restored by any halfway skilled body tech. The rear bumper will probably have to be rechromed though. I don't know the price of this, but maybe a few hundred?

That’s about $18,500 rounded up

For a total rebuild and cost of the car 33G low and a 40G high.

Sell for about 60, and get 20+G’s out of it. But that is without any major surprises. 

Just my input. Good luck!!


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## arch&69 (Jul 9, 2006)

By the way, data plate checks out according to the decoder on UltimateGTO.com. What is the engine code?


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## joeflyer (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks for your input. The engine code is WS. It is supposed to be the original engine, rebuilt 10 or so years ago, with less than 1000 miles on it. The owner stopped driving it because the carb leaks.


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## arch&69 (Jul 9, 2006)

Sweet. That's 366hp 400 ram air III correct w/manual tranny, 10.75compression ratio #744 cam and #48 heads. Can be a real nasty motor when restored. That 366hp was more like 390-400 w/445tq.arty:


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