# ls2 True cam heads only setup



## STSGTO (Jun 13, 2006)

I desided to post this cause I have yet to find any one with a stock 05 pontiac gto that has heads and cam installed. Everthing else on my car is bone stock down to the air box and stock headers.

Mods
224/230 114LSA Comp Cam Livernois stage 3 heads on 243 cores
5/16 Magnum Pushrods 7.400


Dynojet 394hp @6300
375tq @4600
75 Deg

67000 Miles on Car


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Sub 400 with a heads/cam LS2 even on stock manifolds is pretty low. You've only picked up ~45-50 HP over bone stock. You're about where I was with a cam only LS1 with LTs and intake. Probably why no one else has done that.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm assuming those are with the A4 tranny? That's not too bad. Some dynos are stingy, just the way it goes. You can dyno in the 320s with a bone stock LS2 with the A4 tranny. Looking at it like that, you've gained 70 some hp. You really need to get headers. I've never heard of anybody doing a heads cam setup without headers. That's normally the first thing you do. Those exhaust manifolds are choking you bad.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

One more thing, remember you are running a very mild cam. Way better then stock, but still on the mild side. I'm only running a 228/232 on a 114+2 lsa (.595 lift) and I get laughed at or at least questioned by it at every cruise in and car show I go to. I didn't pick it. It was a custom setup from Texas-Speed. Any bigger would make the LS3 valves crash into the pistons, but 95% of the LS world doesn't know that and most just look at numbers and think bigger is better. I bet your cam is hardly noticeable, which is great as a daily driver and great for driving in heavy city traffic. Mine works wonders with my setup.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Dynojets are pretty consistent unlike Mustang or others. That's not a particularly small cam altho you can get different power from different cams that are similar in spec. Also stage 3 heads should get 30+ HP by themselves. I'd say that a properly matched medium cam/head combo should get 100HP by themselves altho that stock mani is definitely holding it back. Cars with heads/cam/Lts like that are regularly in the 430-450 range, even autos.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just throwing ideas around. Mine made 455 the first time through the shop with heads/cam/intake manifold/rocker arms/headers/catback/cai/torque converter/and fuel injectors. All that with the auto 4 tranny.

That was with cnc ported LS3 rectangle port heads though, which are a different animal then ported cathedral port LS1/2 style heads. As for stage 3 ported cathedrals, I have no idea what that means. You don't go by a number with my heads like you do the cathedral style (225s, 235s, 245s, etc). My heads are technically named stage 2.5 cnc'd LS3/L92s, which doesn't mean sheeyot to me. All I know is that they are 69cc.

It's hard to say if it's more the intake and throttle body that's holding him back or if it's his exhaust manifolds. I'm leaning towards the manifolds. I've just never seen a H/C/I done without headers. That was the number one thing on my speed shop's list. Luckily, I had already had them on the car and didn't have to worry about it. I gained another 26 hp when upgrading to the N.W. 102 throttle body and SNL 100mm cai with the T-S 100mm maf. I don't think he'd see anywhere near that with a ported stock throttle body and aftermarket cai though.

Oh, one more thing. There was almost a 30 hp difference from the Dynojet my speedshop uses to the Dynojet they use at the Dyno Challenge on the Hot Rod Power Tour. That damn thing has broken my heart 2 years in a row now...


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

I made 390rwhp on a dyno jet with the mods in my sig through a A4. You would probably gain a good amount of power with some exhaust mods.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

dustyminpin said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you. Just throwing ideas around. Mine made 455 the first time through the shop with heads/cam/intake manifold/rocker arms/headers/catback/cai/torque converter/and fuel injectors. All that with the auto 4 tranny.
> 
> That was with cnc ported LS3 rectangle port heads though, which are a different animal then ported cathedral port LS1/2 style heads. As for stage 3 ported cathedrals, I have no idea what that means. You don't go by a number with my heads like you do the cathedral style (225s, 235s, 245s, etc). My heads are technically named stage 2.5 cnc'd LS3/L92s, which doesn't mean sheeyot to me. All I know is that they are 69cc.
> 
> ...


Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you either at all. LTs will make a substantial difference. It doesn't matter what parts are on it if you have a banana in the tail pipe. BTW who's dyno was that? DynoJets set up right have some of the most consistent readings you can get. I had a Mustang dyno, the same one, give a 40 HP variance by slightly changing one factor. That's one reason I take dynos #s with a grain of salt. I'll take trap speeds with a DA any day to assess my car's power.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

"My" dyno that I frequent is the in-house Dynojet at XXX Motorsports in Pensacola, FL. The other Dynojet I've been on is the portable version that gets hauled around by Lucas Oil/E3 Spark Plugs Dyno Challenge at the Power Tour. It looks like a semi trailer at first, till you see the drums on the thing... The guy in the background on the other side of the car on the far left with the red hat is me . My wife is taking the video.


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## STSGTO (Jun 13, 2006)

M6 Tranny stock gears

Also Since Everything is stock the car gets better MPG 15-17 street 22-24 highway


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## billyjack2 (Oct 21, 2011)

Better MPG huh? Stock doesn't mean better mpg is most cases. 
I get the same mileage you do.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

You will get even better gas mileage with headers. Back when I was mostly stock (K&N cai, Borla cat-back, canned Diablosport tune), I gained 2.5-3 mpg highway after the header install. That was just bolting them on. I never got the car tuned for the headers. Branden at Marylandspeed said it would help to lean it out a bit but wasn't necessary, so I saved the $450 bucks for when I absolutely HAD to get the dynotune (when the heads, cam, and rest the crap was put on).


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I put down around 425-30 RWHP and get 25 MPG highway with 3.91 gears. Being "stock" doesn't necessarily mean better economy. A retune for headers isn't necessary for normal driving as the O2 sensors adjust the air/fuel ratio to optimum. WOT on the other hand needs the retune as the O2s are no longer in the equation and the increased flow and power lower gas mileage.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Def sounds like the stock exhaust AND intake mani's are holding you back. Get some long tubes and atleast get a P&P LS2 TB and intake mani. I would bet you would easily pick up 40 HP from it.


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## STSGTO (Jun 13, 2006)

*upgrades*

I have had car heavly modfied car and there are either no realible or hard to work on for repairs, so i want the car to matain as much stock look and ease possibly the only thing I was thinking about doing was upgrade the stock intake to a ported ls2 intake and JPA shorty headers so that at least the ported stage 3 heads at least match up, i was shoting for 425 to the wheels for a slid 500 fly wheel hp


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## pocketmaster (Feb 26, 2010)

svede1212 said:


> I put down around 425-30 RWHP and get 25 MPG highway with 3.91 gears. Being "stock" doesn't necessarily mean better economy. A retune for headers isn't necessary for normal driving as the O2 sensors adjust the air/fuel ratio to optimum. WOT on the other hand needs the retune as the O2s are no longer in the equation and the increased flow and power lower gas mileage.


Thats nice to know that a retune after headers isn't necessary. I am getting headers for my 05,M6 and doing it myself. I was hoping I didnt have to get it retuned till I finally got my cam.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

pocketmaster said:


> Thats nice to know that a retune after headers isn't necessary. I am getting headers for my 05,M6 and doing it myself. I was hoping I didnt have to get it retuned till I finally got my cam.


Don't drive with a heavy foot without tuning after the header install.


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## Gud2Goat (Apr 9, 2011)

jpalamar said:


> Don't drive with a heavy foot without tuning after the header install.


It's safe after a SLP Bobcat 455 though, correct? Headers are next on the list and just wanted to make sure that the programmer I have will work one more time before I have to bite the Dyno-tuned bullet. Thanks.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

Gud2Goat said:


> It's safe after a SLP Bobcat 455 though, correct?


All you can do is watch your wideband and make sure your not getting knock.


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