# GM Unable to Reprogram My '05 Goat?



## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

Interesting experience I'm going through. Need feedback from you all. I took my Goat in to my dealer yesterday because of a glitch in my trip/digital readout in my cluster. There was a line distortion that cut through the middle of the readout creating breaking line across the center of the display.

Dealer order a new guage cluster and put it in but could not get my codes/info back into the goat. I was at the dealer from 9am to 5pm yesterday and it took them all day to get the car to talk to their computers. Now that they got them talking they can't get the codes to download.

Needless to day I'm a bit concerned about this and how the car will run if they get it fixed. Seems no one at the dealer, GM, or tech support can solve the issue.

Meantime, I roll out of the dealer with a beat up 2004 Gran Am and the dealer didn't even call me late evening yesterday with a status on their progress. I'll be leaving shortly to head back to the dealer (no phone calls here...I want 100% face time). The folks at the dealer are cool. This process of not being able to get my goat program back in is really disturbing.

What say you all?

Best,

Thomas


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

70sFlashback said:


> Interesting experience I'm going through. Need feedback from you all. I took my Goat in to my dealer yesterday because of a glitch in my trip/digital readout in my cluster. There was a line distortion that cut through the middle of the readout creating breaking line across the center of the display.
> 
> Dealer order a new guage cluster and put it in but could not get my codes/info back into the goat. I was at the dealer from 9am to 5pm yesterday and it took them all day to get the car to talk to their computers. Now that they got them talking they can't get the codes to download.
> 
> ...


That sux. Technology definitely has a down side when something goes wrong.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Mr. Dumb-as-a-Wrench stumped on a simple service of their own cars?

[sarcasm]I'm _shocked_.[/sarcasm]


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

70sFlashback said:


> Needless to day I'm a bit concerned about this and how the car will run if they get it fixed. Seems no one at the dealer, GM, or tech support can solve the issue.


Geez, that's a relatively simple fix. How your dealer check previous TSBs for DIC replacements. Somebody's missing a step here. The good news is once they catch this glitch -- your car will be fine. It's just like getting into a tail chase when working on a computer. Something gets screwed up for hours -- like a problem with e-mail access -- and all it turns out to be is that a couple of numbers got transposed.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*LOL, Thanks!*

Thanks for all for replies...humorous and otherwise. 

I agree...it seemed someone had to be missing a step here...dang, I need learn more about automotive tech...I'm waay too deep into computer tech but got nothing on auto tech...any good places to start...?

Dealer has ordered a new PCM for overnight delivery and will replace it tomorrow. Supposed to be back in the saddle by tomorrow afternoon. 

I was a bit unhappy about the fact that no thought it was important to call me today with and update while my Goat is sitting in their garage teathered to a computer.

Seems they did work the issue this morning and promptly ordered the part after decided that the car and the computers were never going to talk to each other at this point.

However I did make the visit to the dealer for the face time with the service manager and general manager. All seems to be on track for now.

Technology...gotta luv it...


T


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

70sFlashback said:


> I was a bit unhappy about the fact that no thought it was important to call me today with and update while my Goat is sitting in their garage teathered to a computer.


That's pretty much SOP for any dealer. Even so-called "premium" brand dealers don't do much other than take your car in -- and call you when it's done. Good luck.


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## gameover (May 13, 2005)

Same thing has happened to my DIC! Haven't taken it to the dealer yet and now I'm not sure I want to if they have to replace the PCM. I've had mine "tuned" and don't want to have to pay for another one.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*Well...not looking good right now.... :-/*

The dealer called me today about 12:30 - 1pm approximately (EST). They said that the new pcm didn't work and that they've done all they can think of and the car simply won't start.

Now they are trying to get in touch with a GM engineer to fly out and take a look at it.

Don't know if I should start looking for an attorney or what. No way I'm going to settle for less than being restored to my original state which is an 05 GTO. my GTO is only 9 months old.

This is going to be interesting.


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

Good grief. That's unbelievable. Look on the bright side, at least you have a full weekend to do as many neutral drops in your Grand Am courtesy car as possible. As for your car, I don't think GM's going to fight you too hard on this one -- as it's one of their dealers that barfed on themselves.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*Lol*

LOL...yeah. :lol: and far more inconvenient at this point. They've had my Goat since Weds 9am.

It's about 115am EST Sat 3/11/06 as I post this...had a long evening with wifey. I spoke with my dealer about 3pm EST on 3/10/06. Said the GM engineer dude would be there on monday and something about this same issue being delt with at another dealer as a result of a GTO that needed cruise control fix/replacement.

He then says something about their (dealer) computer needed to be configured for pass through communication with my GTO's computer and that the ICM, PCM, PIM :confused (yadda yadda) all need to talk and this guy will get it all configured. I ask why they aren't configured to talk to the Goat, he said they were but went back into how the acronyms all need to work together to get the Goat running.

Well I told him this cannot be a jerry-rigged, band aid application to get my Goat out of the garage so that I could have a problem miles down the road, after the warranty runs out in 12K+ more miles or when the Goat needs another service the requires the computer to be shutdown and restarted/reloaded. If they fix it, we're talking extending my warranty or something like that although specifics weren't mentioned. He did say he would address that concern after we determine what our progress turns out to be on Monday. I told him I had two questions...is the product defective or the dealer service?

No matter how it turns out...I must remain in a GTO. So we'll see. To be honest I only want my original GTO back in solid working condition and protection against future defect. I would prefer this to be dealer incompetence in servicing GTO's instead of a defective car.

I'll post an update on Monday night.

Thanks for the feedback.

Best,

Thomas



b_a_betterperson said:


> Good grief. That's unbelievable. Look on the bright side, at least you have a full weekend to do as many neutral drops in your Grand Am courtesy car as possible. As for your car, I don't think GM's going to fight you too hard on this one -- as it's one of their dealers that barfed on themselves.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*UPDATE: Still Not Fixed*

Well, I said I would post and update on Monday. Things are not going well. I am now six days out of my GTO and my dealer cannot fix it. They level 3 GM tech could not fix it. The recommended flat bed towing to another dealer with more updated equipment that the Tech feels is better equiped and trained to handle this problem. My dealer indicated that they are apparently ill-equipped to hook up to a GTO. He also indicated that some problems are being seen with the GTO software. This level 3 tech has a similiar issue with another GTO that they were able to overcome with equipment at this "other" dealer.

Unfortunately, there us a delay in getting my Goat up to the other dealer this morning. I should have be been towed and the crack of business but instead the tow driver is being held up and the car won't be towed until around noon. Ugh...my patience is wearing thin now and I expressed that to my dealer. 

This is likely their last chance to fix my Goat. I've given them time to exhaust all their resources in solving the problem and they still can't get the car to start. After today...things get real serious for me and it will be time to talk serious business about making me whole again. I've only had my GTO for 9 months.

Thanks for listening.

Thomas


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

Thomas,
Just out of curiosity, have you had your car tuned in the past?


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

Hey Baron,

No I haven't. I've only had the oil changed every 3000 miles.  I'm at a loss for words on this issue and it seems the dealer is at a loss also. There were unbelievable delays today ending up with the tow driver being held up a weight station because of break lights not working (with my Goat on the flatbed). This was round 430pm today (the tow was supposed to happen first thing this this morning...long story...didn't happen). The dealer was sending someone up to the weight station to fix the issue and get the tow driver on his way.

I had my full for the day. Dealer coordinated with the other for late delivery of my GTO. I told my dealer I would call him in the morning for an update on safe arrival of my car and to get status on how the day will proceed. 

I was hoping to have positive news on being back on the road this evening since that was plan but alas it was not to be. Tomorrow is the drop dead day at point I figure. If these folks don't get it running I guess no one can.

Thanks for asking...I'll post yet another update sometime late tomorrow after the day has had an opportunity for its course on this.

Thomas



baron_iv said:


> Thomas,
> Just out of curiosity, have you had your car tuned in the past?


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

Wow, sounds like quite an ordeal you're going through. I hope they get it resolved soon, I am interested to hear what the problem is.
The reason I asked you if you'd had it tuned is because some tuners lock the ECM/PCM, which would prevent the dealer from accessing the car's computer. However, that's obviously not your problem.
Best of luck getting this mess fixed up.
-Scott


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## GTO_Gregory (Aug 5, 2005)

I would certainly demand to keep that loaner for as long as you need to.


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## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

GTO_Gregory said:


> I would certainly demand a loaner to drive.


Never demand...ask nicely.
I demanded a loaner car once and they gave me a geo metro. Trust me, you'd rather WALK than drive a geo metro...you'd get there at the same time anyway.


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## GTO-TO-GO (Oct 15, 2004)

First off, I hope the new dealer can fix your GTO.
If the first service dealer is where you bought your GTO I would go directly to the general manager and then the service manager. In that order. Get names and get them involved with the problem. Make notes on everything!
Tomarrow I would call GM service/tech center to give them an update and get the name of the person you are speaking to and talk to the same person each time you call back if you can. Ask the GM rep to call you with an update. This way they will need to get involved and will talk directly to the dealer. 

I have been in retail for 20+ years and I will go the extra mile to help a customer that askes for help vs the customer that demands that the problem get fixed.

Remember, they want to help you. Get them on your side and you will see results in a timely manner.
With that said, nine days is way to long for the first dealer to have your GTO then finaly admit they can't get the job done.

Good Luck

GTO-TO-GO


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## bergenfelter (Nov 11, 2005)

I certainly hope these guys are reading the service documentation. Whenever you swap out the PCM you need to do a relearn procedure on the PCM, PIM and BCM. All the modules are linked together by a security code and the new PCM needs to be taught the new security code through the Tech 2 tool and a link to the Techline system. Also, when the DIC is replaced, there again is a specific procedure to reprogram the DIC for your car with the correct ODO, etc. I am no expert on this, just read the service manuals...

This is really pitiful, I hope nothing ever goes wrong with the Goat!


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*Yep, Thanks....*

Again, thanks for the feedback fellas,

Baron/Gregory - I don't think the loaner is going to be a problem. They offered me a loaner the first day after at around 1pm after having been there since 9am that morning and they realized that a major challenge was at hand. I never had to ask for it and in fact, they insisted. I did however at least try to get into a G6, GTP or a Buick Lucerne. The Buick as out of curiosity and the G6/GTP because I drove a G6 rental and the thing was a rather fun the drive.

GTO-To-Go - I've been dealing with the service manager primarily since day one, but I also have spoken to the asst service manager, the quality assurance manager and the general manager at length on the issue so all are aware. The service manager has been my point of contact. GM tech has been involved and they had a level 3 come onsite on Monday to look at the problem and could not resolve it. For the duration I've not been unpleasant at all. There have been no rants of buy backs or cursing and such craziness as I realize that I want them on my side and I know how difficult customers can be over the little things. This is big. So being pleasant on this big issue has gone a long with my dealer service manager. 

Your right, this has gone on way too long so tomorrow we'll have to start asking the hard questions about resolutions if this cannot be fixed. I've been journaling every interaction and conversation on this issue since last wednesday and I've date and time stamped them so I have a detailed chronology of these events as they've happened. 

bergenfelter - Seems that what you've (acronyms) is precisely what my service manager said won't work! This won't talk to that which won't talk to the other thing. But I think you may have nailed as I was told that they couldn't get a pass through to the GTO to download the software. When I was at the shop, he pointed out the cable the ran from the office to their computer (Techline system?) and how that cable would plug into a tech device (Tech 2 tool?) which then had its connection into the GTO. 

I don't have the service manual for the GTO but I need to get one for sure. "IF" they get it fixed...future service is a BIG question in mind. I don't know what is faulty at this point...the dealer equipment/expertise...the GTO...or both. 

Whatever the outcome will be I'm optimistic it will be a good one. I only need to be patient. My dealer although slow with keeping me informed hasn't been bad to work with or deal. They've given me priority attention from the outset so while this has been stretched a bit on time, I don't have any hard complaints about the personnel at the moment.

Thanks...I'll post another update tomorrow evening.

Best,

Thomas


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## b_a_betterperson (Feb 16, 2005)

A dealer switch sounds like a move in the right direction. The right diagnostic tools will get this straightened. Hard to believe there are dealers that don't have the proper equipment to service the vehicles they sell. Good luck. What a PITA.


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## GTO8 (Feb 20, 2006)

70's... Sounds like you are having a rough time with the GTO. I had rear axles replaced in my 06 @ 90 miles. I contacted Pontiac Headquarters in Chicago. I worked with a really nice guy & he gave me a 6 year 100,00 mile bumper to bumper warranty for FREE. If you would like his EMAIL address I can provide it to you.. Just ask & its a done deal:cheers


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*Geez...Update.*

Well...the car is fixed. The other dealer has the updates to reprogram my GTO.

The bad news...the report from the other dealer indicated that when they recieved the car, the hood was out of alignment and they had to straighten it out. I was mystified.

No confirm this for me folks...when you drop your hood close from any height, your drops tight and locks correct? My hood did the same thing until today. Now, if it drop it close from a short height is doesn't shut tight. Dealer said it needed to be dropped higher to work with the weight of the hood. Even worse, on the way from a store that I stopped at close to my home, my hood popped opened after I had closed it after checking my power steering fluid.

Why was I check my power steering? Because along with the damaged hood, I now have a shimmy in my steering column.

I will be at the dealer first thing in the morning.

This saga continues...

Thanks,

Thomas


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## bergenfelter (Nov 11, 2005)

Sounds to me like your dealer slammed the hood shut on a couple of service cables coming out from under the hood during your service fiasco and bent the hood or hinges. Either that, or when they replaced the PCM they did not get it bolted in correctly and it is hitting the underside of the hood. Take a look in the underhood lining fabric material and see if there is any marring or denting of the fabric, this might lend a clue.

John.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

GTO8,

Sorry to hear about that as well and I appreciate your input also. I am officially asking.  I certainly appreciate the offer. Thanks!

Thomas




GTO8 said:


> 70's... Sounds like you are having a rough time with the GTO. I had rear axles replaced in my 06 @ 90 miles. I contacted Pontiac Headquarters in Chicago. I worked with a really nice guy & he gave me a 6 year 100,00 mile bumper to bumper warranty for FREE. If you would like his EMAIL address I can provide it to you.. Just ask & its a done deal:cheers


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

John,

Thanks...geez...I'm been trying to figure out all evening what possible scenario has led to this...I'm on EST time so I'll check in the morning...on my way back to the dealer.

Best,

Thomas



bergenfelter said:


> Sounds to me like your dealer slammed the hood shut on a couple of service cables coming out from under the hood during your service fiasco and bent the hood or hinges. Either that, or when they replaced the PCM they did not get it bolted in correctly and it is hitting the underside of the hood. Take a look in the underhood lining fabric material and see if there is any marring or denting of the fabric, this might lend a clue.
> 
> John.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

BTW, should I ask for a new hood replacement or can I expect this to corrected with the original hood? 

Thomas



bergenfelter said:


> Sounds to me like your dealer slammed the hood shut on a couple of service cables coming out from under the hood during your service fiasco and bent the hood or hinges. Either that, or when they replaced the PCM they did not get it bolted in correctly and it is hitting the underside of the hood. Take a look in the underhood lining fabric material and see if there is any marring or denting of the fabric, this might lend a clue.
> 
> John.


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## GTO-TO-GO (Oct 15, 2004)

You posted that your GTO was on a flat bed tow truck. I had my BMW M3 brought to my dealer on a flat bed once and the driver bent one of the rear suspension arms when he tied it down. That messed up the whole rear end. Check everything under the car.

Good Luck

GTO-TO-GO


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## TexasAggie (Mar 2, 2005)

GTO8 said:


> 70's... Sounds like you are having a rough time with the GTO. I had rear axles replaced in my 06 @ 90 miles. I contacted Pontiac Headquarters in Chicago. I worked with a really nice guy & he gave me a 6 year 100,00 mile bumper to bumper warranty for FREE. If you would like his EMAIL address I can provide it to you.. Just ask & its a done deal:cheers



Rear axles?? Why did they have to be replaced? This scares me a bit since I'm getting my '06 in July. I've NEVER believed in extended warranties but I'm seriously considering it with this thread and others regarding the strut rub issue etc..


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

*Issue Resolved*

The ordeal has ended. Dealer has a lessons learned experience and incredible as it sounds, they did not have the proper updates to return my GTO to proper form. I've had her all weekend and she's running great! To her back the dealer first thing Thursday morning and the hood proper was fix in good order. Got a free oil change in the process. 

I've been running all weekend in the GTO...lots of driving to catch up on and didn't get back to this thread to update. Thanks for all the feedback. I proved quite useful in my dialogue with my dealer. 

Best,

Thomas


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

70sFlashback said:


> The ordeal has ended. Dealer has a lessons learned experience and incredible as it sounds, they did not have the proper updates to return my GTO to proper form. I've had her all weekend and she's running great! To her back the dealer first thing Thursday morning and the hood proper was fix in good order. Got a free oil change in the process.
> 
> I've been running all weekend in the GTO...lots of driving to catch up on and didn't get back to this thread to update. Thanks for all the feedback. I proved quite useful in my dialogue with my dealer.
> 
> ...


Nice to hear it all worked out. I imagine this is indicative of owning a low production car. From some of the other posts I've read, I've decided to drive the 35 miles to a larger town (and larger dealer) when I have problems addressed.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

Yep, you've probably pin pointed the issue right there. The GTO is is rare bird in most parts. My dealer certainly doesn't work on many if any...I'm probably the most frequent GTO in there for oil changes every 3K.

Thanks,

Thomas



noz34me said:


> Nice to hear it all worked out. I imagine this is indicative of owning a low production car. From some of the other posts I've read, I've decided to drive the 35 miles to a larger town (and larger dealer) when I have problems addressed.


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## STLGTO05A4 (Jul 3, 2005)

*Dealer had mine for 3 weeks*

Dealer had my car for almost three weeks!!! I had a similar problem with my dealership, brought mine in to get the rear checked out, all the posts had me spooked (had a very, very light hum between 45-55mph) and my speedo popped to 150-200mph when shifting from park to drive. Dealer removed diff rear cover and checked complete rear, replaced all gear oil and additive. It still has a very, very, very slight gear noise but they claim a little noise is normal with these? The speedo issue they could not fix, they replaced the gauge cluster, tried reprogramming my computer, and then my car would not start. They proceeded to order three diffferent computers, the could not get any of them to reprogram. finally after contacting GM techs..yadda, yadda, yadda..they got my original computer to reprogram. 
Dealer told me because they used my car to diagnose the speedo problem (they had a few GTO's with the same issue) they are offering me free extended warranty. During the three weeks, dealer gave me a loaner 2006 G6, not bad, but by no means a GTO...LOL
I'm currently waiting for the warranty to go through, I had the dealer send me in writing that I was getting the warranty and it was in progress. just covering my ass. I Still love the car dispite few glitches.
Anybody know of good tuners in St. Louis area???


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

Nice. Thanks STL...seems the dealers are behind the learning curve with the GTO engines...I wonder if the Chevy brethen are having the same issues since the GTO and C6 have the engine basics at least? Dah well...

Glad they committed to covering you with the extended warranty...it's really crazy out there. :cool 

Thomas



STLGTO05A4 said:


> Dealer had my car for almost three weeks!!! I had a similar problem with my dealership, brought mine in to get the rear checked out, all the posts had me spooked (had a very, very light hum between 45-55mph) and my speedo popped to 150-200mph when shifting from park to drive. Dealer removed diff rear cover and checked complete rear, replaced all gear oil and additive. It still has a very, very, very slight gear noise but they claim a little noise is normal with these? The speedo issue they could not fix, they replaced the gauge cluster, tried reprogramming my computer, and then my car would not start. They proceeded to order three diffferent computers, the could not get any of them to reprogram. finally after contacting GM techs..yadda, yadda, yadda..they got my original computer to reprogram.
> Dealer told me because they used my car to diagnose the speedo problem (they had a few GTO's with the same issue) they are offering me free extended warranty. During the three weeks, dealer gave me a loaner 2006 G6, not bad, but by no means a GTO...LOL
> I'm currently waiting for the warranty to go through, I had the dealer send me in writing that I was getting the warranty and it was in progress. just covering my ass. I Still love the car dispite few glitches.
> Anybody know of good tuners in St. Louis area???


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## ColdOnes (Aug 13, 2005)

I just got done with the same PIM/PCM ordeal. Took the car in because A/C wasn't blowing out the correct vents. They reprogrammed my computer and 11 days later I get my car back. They had to replace the PCM and PIM to get it running again. Now I have this annoying rattle in my dash - sounds like it's coming from behind the speedo cluster. Almost like a little screw bouncing up and down that forgot to get replaced somewhere.


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## 70sFlashback (Jul 9, 2005)

I guess we've confirmed that GM has a big learning curve when it comes to the PIM/PCM. Seems like someone would get the message out and that tech support would get the procedures locked and loaded for such occasions. 

This is plain unacceptable tech/service support. While you came out with a rattle behind your cluster, I came out with my cluster well replaced. I just got my GTO back with my hood out of alignment. It was fixed but geez... :confused  



ColdOnes said:


> I just got done with the same PIM/PCM ordeal. Took the car in because A/C wasn't blowing out the correct vents. They reprogrammed my computer and 11 days later I get my car back. They had to replace the PCM and PIM to get it running again. Now I have this annoying rattle in my dash - sounds like it's coming from behind the speedo cluster. Almost like a little screw bouncing up and down that forgot to get replaced somewhere.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

GM needs to regulate their service departments if they ever want to seriously tangle with the likes of BMW.


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