# Aluminum Radiators?



## goatsnvairs (Sep 12, 2014)

Anyone have experience with the best source price and quality-wise for a direct fit aluminum radiator for a '67 manual trans GTO? Ideally I would like to use the factory fan and clutch setup, maybe with a full fan shroud. Also need to source the shroud and have read some horror stories about the replacement ones being of such a soft material they melt and distort. Any help will be much appreciated.


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## CBarrett (Nov 20, 2015)

I have a Be Cool set up in my 65. Pricey, but worth the money. Went with the dual electric fan, doesn't even think about getting hot. The electric fan doesn't rob any horse power from the engine as well. I made my goat a driver, so I have several upgrades: HID headlights, LED taillights, Dakota Digital instrument cluster just to name a few. I believe with Be Cool you can still use your original fan and clutch assembly, check out their web site. Very nice systems.


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

Yeah, if you got around a thousand dollars or so to spend on a cooling system, there are several brands available. Most of the reasonably priced rads I've seen are not exactly "direct fit", even when advertised as such.

BUT, if you don't mind doing some fab work on the install, sometimes you can save $500 or more, over some of the high dollar brands. For most cars, an alum rad with 2 rows of 1" wide tubes will cool efficiently. 1.25" tubes are better, but cost more.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-1967-P...ash=item1c58173efe:g:cMUAAOSwu4BV1lX7&vxp=mtr

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-80298-s-na-n/overview/year/1967/make/pontiac/model/gto

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-6-70060/overview/year/1967/make/pontiac/model/gto


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I run an Afco aluminum radiator in my GTO. It was reasonably priced and they have two versions, one w stamped tanks and one w fabricated tanks. The stamped version can be painted black to look OEM. I bought mine through a local radiator shop but Speedway sells them too.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

And I will say it fit like factory, no trimming or fabrication. I've had it in the car for 15 years no problems. At the time it was around $200, I'm not sure how much now. L


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

ALKYGTO said:


> And I will say it fit like factory, no trimming or fabrication. I've had it in the car for 15 years no problems. At the time it was around $200, I'm not sure how much now. L


Don't know if this is the same model or not ?

1967 PONTIAC GTO AFCO Racing Bolt-In Direct Fit Aluminum Radiators 80298-S-NA-N - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing


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## goatsnvairs (Sep 12, 2014)

*Ames Aluminum Radiators?*



ALKYGTO said:


> And I will say it fit like factory, no trimming or fabrication. I've had it in the car for 15 years no problems. At the time it was around $200, I'm not sure how much now. L


Wow, thanks for all the input, many options to investigate. I noted nobody mentioned the line of radiators Ames carries. They have a HD version for $369.

https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/D...AFA&order_number_e=MzkyNzk5MQ==
&web_access=Y


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## oldskool (Apr 26, 2015)

That Ames rad is a 4-row. I've read that a 4-row will not cool any better than a 2-row, with at least 1" wide tubes. This is because it takes more cfm of airflow to pull air thru a rad with 4-rows of narrow tubes, than with 2 rows of wide tubes. Also, some of the 2-row rads can actually flow more coolant than some of the 4-rows.

Or, in other words, some rads with 2-rows of wide tubes are more efficient than those with 4 rows of narrow tubes. But, I can't verify this as fact.

There is a lot of good rad info online. Here are just a few links. 

Are three row aluminum radiators better than two? ? DeWitts Direct Fit? Aluminum Radiators

Cap-A-Radiator

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-156137.html

Aluminum VS. Copper-Brass Radiator: Construction Differences


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I did a little research on the aluminum type radiators just to get an idea of what I might want for my project when the time comes.

Basically, the larger the tube diameter seems to be the key. You would think more rows, ie 3-core or 4-core, would be better, but it is not. The smaller sized tubes do not offer the same surface area for cooling as the larger sized tubes and additional rows may add to cooling woes as airflow can be reduced and the thickness of the radiator can hold heat. 

Wider is better than taller with regards to crossflow radiators, so it is always better to go as wide as you can fit, which can include a little radiator support trimming to open up the opening - if you don't mind. Read an article on a Mopar upgrade and the Mopars have a bit of a narrow and restrictive radiator support so some cars/engine builds may run hotter. Built up a 360 SixPack engine for my brother in a '73 Satellite. He had a new 3-core factory type radiator. Could not get it to run cool at all as it soared in heat when stop & go or slow traffic. Did the 160 T-stat and added a flex fan which helped somewhat when rolling, but still got hotter than it should have in stop & go town driving. Put in an aluminum replacement, 2-rows, and problem solved. Not sure what the tube dia was or brand, but it worked and still works today 3 years later.

Getting the fan set up is also critical for good cooling once you know your cooling system is good to go. The Duralast 160 degree T-stat from Autozone appears to be a good choice as used by others. Next is the clutch fan and those made by Hayden have good reviews by those who use them. The have a HD and standard versions with the HD preferred if it fits your application. Otherwise the standard is still good. Next is the 7-bladed fan which is also found on 1969-'72 BB Chevies, part No. 3947772. These can be bought new on Ebay. Even though this is a Chevy fan, from what I can tell, it is a GM fan and also used on Pontiacs. All this would be for a stock type fan set-up which you wanted to go with. I can't recommend or endorse any of this, as I found all this through my researching the radiators and optimizing the air flow through the radiator. I plan on using an electric fan on my project after I weighed it all out which includes an upgrade to a larger amp alternator and matching wiring to operate the additional load of an electric fan.

So it appears that a 2-row aluminum radiator with the largest tube diameter would be what to look for in comparing radiators for your application. It is what I am going with on my project. In addition, you want to ensure you have the quality fan set-up to go with the radiator so both work together to keep the engine cool in all types weather/driving conditions. I am not going stock on my fan set-up but am going with a *Spal* brand electric fan -which appears to be a quality fan with many good reviews by users having them.


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## CptTheAlex (Jul 17, 2015)

I have the 3-Row rad from Champion Cooling. I had to raise the upper rad bracket mount with some washers to fit properly. It is by no means a direct fit, but $235 shipped to my door, seemed more appropriate than $6-700 for other applications. Its made with 1 inch tubing and is rated up to 650hp. I don't think my car has ever gotten above 190 as it sat and idled. Can't say how well it does moving or with driving in traffic though. I can take pictures tomorrow if you're interested.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Like Jim above, I did my homework, I came down t Rodney Red, Champion and Griffin. In the end I went with Griffin and have not regretted it, great radiator and it, along with a 19 inch fan solved my cooling issues. Ya get what you pay for....


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm running an aluminum radiator from Mark 7 machine. Bought it as a custom package deal that included twin Spal 13" fans plus all wiring, mounting hardware, temperature control switch for the fans, power relays, nice aluminum overflow reservoir etc. I've been running it for more than 4 years now.
Radiator works great.
Issues I've had:
Wiring harness connectors for the fans (which pull 30 amps each) aren't really up to the task. Mine eventually got warm enough to soften enough to allow the spade connectors inside them to short out, blowing both fuses "violently" (violently: definition: Blowing a fuse with such force that it not only destroys the fuse, but also melts the fuse holder).
Needless to say, with no air flow and making the amount of power my car does - it overheated in a half a heartbeat when that happened.
I've also had a similar problem when one of the fan relays decided to check out, leaving me running with only one fan. It was enough to stay cool at highway speeds, but in city traffic it got slowly hotter and hotter.

Which leads us to the next problem - the fact that those fans pull 30 amps - each. No way is the factory 65amp alternator going to be able to keep up with that load along with running the rest of the car, especially at night with the headlamps on. It took a little effort but I was able to eventually find an alternator spec'ed for a 70's-80's Safari wagon that would fit in the same space as the original and provided 105 amps. I had to mess with the wiring a little because the new one is internally regulated as opposed to the original externally regulated one, but once I figured out what to do it wasn't all that bad. My "GEN" light even still works correctly.

All in all, the setup works really well now. If you choose to go that route though, I strongly recommend replacing the factory plastic T power connectors for the fans with much heavier, 40-amp continuous draw rated weatherpak connectors. I also now carry with me at all times spare fuses, spare fuse _holders_, spare fan relays, and tools/wire to be able to replace any/all of that by the side of the road if I need to.

The down side with the setup is that now there are quite a few more 'ways' that the system can fail.

There's a lot to be said for the reliability of driving a mechanical fan with a belt.

Bear


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

My '68 GTO came with a Rodney Red radiator which seems to work well. The water pump was replaced by a Chev mechanic before I ever saw the car so the metal plates around the fan impeller may be missing (since Chev's don't have them). Until I checkout the water pump, the thermostat, and other stuff, I can't blame the radiator for the hot running engine.

In checking around, Rodney Red seems to have a good rep, though.

Rodney Red - Performance Radiators


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## goatsnvairs (Sep 12, 2014)

*Thanks!*



1968gto421 said:


> My '68 GTO came with a Rodney Red radiator which seems to work well. The water pump was replaced by a Chev mechanic before I ever saw the car so the metal plates around the fan impeller may be missing (since Chev's don't have them). Until I checkout the water pump, the thermostat, and other stuff, I can't blame the radiator for the hot running engine.
> 
> In checking around, Rodney Red seems to have a good rep, though.
> 
> Rodney Red - Performance Radiators


Wow, thanks for all the info guys! I probably will dodge the Ames one, it does look like a solid wall of tubes. Based on all of above I'm going to look further into Afco, Champion, and Rodneyred. I'm sure one of those will fit the bill! Much appreciated!


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## allpawl66 (May 9, 2008)

CptTheAlex said:


> I have the 3-Row rad from Champion Cooling. I had to raise the upper rad bracket mount with some washers to fit properly. It is by no means a direct fit, but $235 shipped to my door, seemed more appropriate than $6-700 for other applications. Its made with 1 inch tubing and is rated up to 650hp. I don't think my car has ever gotten above 190 as it sat and idled. Can't say how well it does moving or with driving in traffic though. I can take pictures tomorrow if you're interested.


I have a Champion as well with 525 hp. street use & cooling is excellent & fit was perfect , they offer 2 different heights for the 64-67 GTO's - lifetime warranty as well as a super low price .


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## Chucks (Oct 30, 2012)

Here is what I did just bought car in 2003 was getting hot & staying hot would not cool down. Replaced water & pump stat no help. I took the stock radiator to a local shop Bill's Radiator in Dayton OH they kept the original tanks installed HD 4 core cost $300.00 helped a lot.
Changed the clutch fan to HD AC reset timing. Has no over heated since.


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## bowtie30 (Aug 10, 2014)

I bought one off ebay last spring for my 66 GTO 389 4spd. Running original fan clutch with shroud. Fit like original and works great, $249. Type in item #331569768895 on ebay and should bring it up. Painted the top tank flat black and it looks original. 2 core aluminum made in the USA. Seller was NewYorkrestomod.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

I have a Griffin 2 row 1 1/2 inch each aluminum radiator. I am very happy with it. I also use a Derale 2 fan electric shroud system.... Here are a couple pics.....the set up keeps the engine water temp at 165---185 degrees .


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