# 1970 Pontiac GTO 455 ***Frame Off Resto***



## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Hello all. Here is the start of a frame off restoration of a 1970 GTO. I am hoping to complete this within 5 years. I have never done a car restoration before, but I am good with my hands and have been fixing my daily drivers on my own since I was 16. I'm looking forward to diving into this project this winter. I have been hovering around this site for some time now and really enjoy the experience and advice you all have to offer, which gives me the confidence to do such a feat. 

As some of you may know I just purchased my first home, which has a two car garage. Not only does this give me a little more stability, it also gives me the space and opportunity to start working on my project.

This thread may progress a little slow ... as I am finishing up my schooling career in December, but after that I will have all sorts of GTO time to consume my evenings and weekends.

Here she sits in the garage waiting to get some attention. Can't wait to get started. So much to do but where to begin? Sorry the picture is a little blurry but many more to come with even many more questions about putting her back together.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Josh, Congrats on the HOME, and the GTO....did you check to see if the house has a kitchen and bathrooms?....or did you stop lookin' when you saw the garage?:cheersarty: Eric


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

I stopped at the garage, and said I'll take it. However my girlfriend advised me to see the rest of the house. I have been working under a carport on my cars (daily drivers) for the last couple years ... the heat is too brutal during summers to find motivation to be outside. I'm not sure if any of you have seen the dust storms we have had this year in Arizona. It just covers everything is dust and gets everywhere ... like going to the beach. I wasn't sure if I should have been tarping the Goat for protection or leaving here in the middle of the yard and hoping for some free blasting. 

Anyways I'm totally excited about having a garage.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

dont over restore it. its hard to keep incentive for 5 years.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Congrats on the garage and project.
I would get it together, running and driving, so you can get the thrill of the car. But finances and wants are 2 different things. Body looks solid, put it together.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

I'm going to try to get the car back together as soon as I can. I have been real busy lately and haven't found to much time to spend working on it. Right now I have the front clip removed as I intend to remove the engine and transmission and then separate the body and frame for media blasting. I have been collecting parts for the chassis. I have all the front end components. I just need to order the shocks, rear springs, rear control arm bushings, brake lines, and fuel lines. 

I want to fix this problem. It appears that this car was towed by a moron who connected chains to the cowl section and the rear frame rail to move this car at one point. See pictures below. Do you think this could have done some major damage to the frame? 

It looks as though it was pulled which caused a separation of the metal on the driver side rear frame rail. I was hoping to just reconnect the frame rail and straighten it out and and hope not actual damage was done other than the point of damage.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

I am worried about getting the right contour shape of the roof since I be will patching the sunroof. Would it be better to do an entire skin ... I know it is a lot more money and a heep labor hours for a skin. At the moment I am thinking about just making a patch and welding it in. Any advice and words of wisdom on welding roof patches or roof skins would be appreciated.


Also .. the second picture is my steering box. Can anyone tell me whose logo this is? I am seeking information about this box.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

That is the Saginaw logo

They make PS for almost all American made 60's and 70's cars


Clean it up and get the number so you can search them or post them.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Started to do a little stripping down this evening. I found some casting numbers on the engine, manifold, and heads. I have a Pontiac 350 engine #9799916, with 1968 Pontiac heads #17, and a 1971 Manifold #481733 (Believe to be from a 400/455). Exhaust Manifolds are #480602 and #9796992 (If I matched these correctly they are from a 72 455). Didn't get too much further as I needed to buy some supplies to catch the drippings and what not. Also took out the sunroof and found out (didn't settle in before) part of the main roof structure was cut out for the darn sunroof. Not sure how hard that is going to be to weld in a support beam back in and then a new roof patch. Anyone got a junk shell with the roof braces for a 70? I might be interested.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Hey Josh, looks like your really making some headway!:cheers

Frame looks like a fairly easy fix... from here anyway :lol:.

As far as the roof, yikes, that'll be a challenge. The roof brace not so bad but controlling warpage on that big flat panel will take some patients, and maybe some kind of scaffolding to give you access to work on it. 

No chance PHS shows a vinyl top originally huh?


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

ALKYGTO said:


> Hey Josh, looks like your really making some headway!:cheers
> 
> Frame looks like a fairly easy fix... from here anyway :lol:.
> 
> ...


No no vinyl top originally. I am exploring a few ideas. (1) Looking for a brace from a donor car and then I'll try patching the hole. If that doesn't work out to well (too much warpage) (2) I plan on purchasing a new roof skin as I have heard that they are pretty decent replacement pieces. 

The good news is however, yesterday I received the long lost title (took almost 9 months to get) to my GTO and tomorrow will be the first day it will be titled into my name.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

congrats on the new house and the project. leave some room in the garage for the girlfriend to park. it will serve you well in the long run. dont ask how i know.:cheers


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## MickeyKelley (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm not trying to be noisey but am trying to get educated before I jump into a project like this. Any idea what kind of cost your looking at putting into this? The interior looks pretty rough. If you have to replace a bunch of parts, doesn't the cost get up there pretty quick? Let alone any rust being cut out. 

Looking to learn here because I'm trying to find my old 68 that has some family history or if I can't fin it then want to do a 69 judge, so any input would really be appreciated.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

This is my first frame off restoration, but I have been working on my own cars since I was 16. Of course the more things that need to be done will obviously increase the price of the finished project. This is actually my second 70 GTO, first one required so much work that I traded it to a Pontiac enthusiast and some cash for a much more solid GTO. This one will require some body work. A front lower fender patch about 2" from the bottom on the driver side and a little work around the wheel wheel. The rear passenger corner needs some patch work around wheel (not sure how the outer wheel house is going to look once I cut part off the quarter), passenger door needs a dent pulled, driver quarter needs a few dents pulled, a small patch underneath the car needs repaired (it's about a 3" x 3"), the hood has typical rust on both the passenger and driver sides near the windshield (small patch pieces will take care of that) and last but not least I am going to put a new roof skin on it as mine had a sunroof and when the sunroof was installed they cut through the roof support. They don't make any replacement supports for the GTO but they do offer one for the 70 Chevelle, so I'll probably pick one of those up. All and all for the patches this car will need I expect to be near $900 in patch panels before any blocking can begin. The car will also be schedule for a full media blast, not sure if I will do the frame or have someone else do it. I have gotten some quotes in my area which are about $1000 to $1400 for full car inside and out. New interior will probably run around $2000 to $3000 for Legendary interior kit. Dash pad recovered about $800. New front end and rear end kit about $500. New transmission (m22) about $1700, and I am still looking for a good rebuildable 455. I have a 350 which I will probably just tear down and budget build back up in the mean time not going to do anything extensive except strip, evaluate, and reassemble and paint. I am going to have the rear end sent out for inspection, all four drum brakes need to be rebuilt. I guess the thing you can learn here is right now you can buy the car finished for what people are putting in theirs to build. I don't have a pile of cash sitting around so my project moves forward as opportunity presents itself. I'm still in the beginning stages and still tearing it down. The most important thing to is document everything that comes off the car so you know exactly where it goes when you need to put it back on.

To answer your question, I have no idea how much I am going to put into this car, it's not about the money in the end for me. If I had to guess what I assume will be around what I have in the car near the end I would say around $25k maybe. Best advice is to start with a *solid running* project that already has what you are looking for in a GTO. 

Best of Luck and hope you find that 68.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

I spent a few hours working on my car this evening, just some basic stripping down of the motor which is going to be pulled maybe this weekend, so I can start on getting the body and frame separated. Also got the dash removed and disassembled, but I couldn't get the darn headlight switch off. 

How does this thing come apart? I spun the locking piece which screws into the controller behind the dash, so that part if free now. Does the knob just pop off the driver side of the dash? Mine won't budge and I didn't want to yank on the knob.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

There is a small button on the light switch, behind the dash...depress, and hold it, while you pull the knob. The knob will come off and the shaft with it......E


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## MickeyKelley (Oct 28, 2011)

Right on the button. I remember having to do that on my old 68 once. Was a real brain teaser until someone told me about the button. 

Thanks for feed back on cost, etc.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Josh.AZ.GTO said:


> To answer your question, I have no idea how much I am going to put into this car, it's not about the money in the end for me. If I had to guess what I assume will be around what I have in the car near the end I would say around $25k maybe. Best advice is to start with a *solid running* project that already has what you are looking for in a GTO.
> 
> Best of Luck and hope you find that 68.


ain't that the truth....if you want the challenge and sense of accomplishment and have the TIME and space to do it restore one. if you want a car to drive buy one done it will be cheaper. As far as i can tell i am about 15K into the Tempest and still have another couple grand on my wish list and thats doing every lick of the work myself including body and paint (by far the most expensive part). I started with a solid survivor body and frame that needed zero patch work so i got off pretty easy in that regard although its many hours of work to just get panels straight enough for paint.

1966 Tempest pictures by instg8ter - Photobucket

Brian


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## russosborne (Dec 6, 2010)

Josh, 
As you know I have just pulled the body off of the frame on mine. I would recommend leaving the engine and transmission on the frame until after the body is off. It was very easy for me to get them off the frame without the body. 

Where abouts in Mesa are you? I lived in Phoenix most of my life, and had a house in Maricopa county between Mesa and Apache Junction for about 7 years until about 2005.

Russ


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Russ,
I lived in Mesa off the 202 East at Gilbert and McKellips, but I just bought a new home in North Phoenix off the 51 N around 35th St and Thunderbird. I moved to Arizona in 2005,..... from wait for it ..... Ohio. I grew up in Ashland (between Mansfield and Wooster), right off the I-71. 

I thought all cars had rust on them till I moved to AZ.


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## russosborne (Dec 6, 2010)

I know where Ashland is.  I was born in Mansfield. Lived there until I was 10, then got moved to Phoenix. Always wanted to move back here, finally did it. Still not sure it was the best thing to do though.

We moved back here in 2006. Lived in Mansfield the first year in my grandparent's house, then moved to Akron for 4 years and finally bought this place in Warren. I still would like to move back to Mansfield, but the commute to the Cleveland area in winter bites. My new wife hated the heat out there although she lived there her whole life. I wanted to move back there after finding how bad the job market was here, but she loves it here. I admit I do to, it would be a great place to retire, but working here bites.


About 20 years ago me and my first wife lived in a trailer park at 35th st and I think greenway or union hills. It was just north of the county library. Mind is going. I do know that all that has been torn down and new subdivisions put in. 


Russ


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Bought a new power plant over the weekend. I get to go pick it up on this coming Sunday. It's a 1971 455 carb to oil pan with #66 heads and an extra set of 6x heads completely rebuilt. 

Q. What is the best way to clean a steering pump (the inside)? Would you just run it clean with water and cleaner then let it dry?


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Well today I went and picked up my 71 Pontiac 455 and 6X heads (8). Haven't gotten much done with the actually car lately but only have two more weeks of school left. My garage is starting to look like a Pontiac parts place  Starting to to have two and three of things. Here is a few pics of the new motor and heads, been sitting in the guys garage for 15 years. He had a beautiful completely restored 1969 Judge (didn't get a picture). The heads currently on the motor are #66.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looking good so far, I know how you feel juggling the school and the GF. I bought my house two years ago and between the three my GTO restoration has been slowed down exponentially. I expect it to be driving by summer of next year... But then again deadlines are made to be broken.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Josh.AZ.GTO said:


> :Q. What is the best way to clean a steering pump (the inside)? Would you just run it clean with water and cleaner then let it dry?


?spray the inside with brake parts cleaner, turn the impeller, swish it around and dump it out. Or use laquer thinner to clean out the gunk. I have never cleaned one, why does it need cleaning? Water won't break much down, but may work.
Congrats on the 455. 6x-8 heads will need some dome pistons, but nice.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Buy a reman, think mine was like 30$...


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

jetstang said:


> ?spray the inside with brake parts cleaner, turn the impeller, swish it around and dump it out. Or use laquer thinner to clean out the gunk. I have never cleaned one, why does it need cleaning? Water won't break much down, but may work.
> Congrats on the 455. 6x-8 heads will need some dome pistons, but nice.


I was looking for the best method to clean all the internal parts. I ordered some metal wash from Eastwood for some engine parts. I'm wondering if that would be ok to use or not on the steering box internals. It was leaking steering fluid pretty bad. I just order a steering rebuild kit for the saginaw boxes. Cost like $40. Comes with all new seals and everything. I'm just looking to tear it down, inspect, lube, and reassemble. However I noticed I have made a mistake in the teardown. I should have counted the threads so I know how far to tighten back down as now I am not positive of how the backlash was set. I'll have to figure that out later.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Brake cleaner works extremely well for removing varnish and sludge buildup, the only concern is rubber seals. If you have parts torn down then use brake cleaner to spray them off.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Kerosene works well and is cheap.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agree....I would use brake cleaner, but NOT on rubber parts.....leave water out of the equation...except for in the cooling system. Eric


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Hey all. Well it has been a while since I have last made a post. Sadly not a whole lot of progress has been made, well not as much as I would prefer, but some has been made. Today I spent some time working on her. I removed the bolts from the body mounts. Got all but one (right in the middle on passenger side), any ideas how to get the last one out? Thought about just cutting it with a sawzaw. Other than that the others came right out pretty easily. I also dropped the gas tank and the tank looks pretty clean, slight surface rust on the exposed side. Might be able to just restore the tank with some cleaning internally and paint. I'm in the process of removing body from the frame to have the frame evaluated by a frame shop. A while back I noticed a considerable amount of slag on driver side rear where the coil spring sits. I have been told by a Pontiac restorer this could have been from a new employee on the assembly line with less experience welding. It just looked out of place to me. What do you guys think? Anyways here are a few updated pics. We all like pics. I have been spending time also building my workshop on the back of the garage. Still not entirely completed however.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looking good Josh! Progress is progress! Is the body bolt spinning? If so you will probably have to cut the floor pan to get to the captured nut. As for the slag on the frame, evaluate it when you get the body off. I would leave it as it is part of the cars history. Otherwise, a needle scaler or a grinder will make short work of it. Keep posting!


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Yeah the bolt is spinning. The two body bushings under the front did the same thing, but aided with vise grips I was able to get them out. This was the only one that is problematic. 


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

further down the rabbit hole....

Tonight I decided to tackle the beginnings of the separation of the body and frame. I saw an idea online and thought it would be the easiest and most cost effective for me as all I am interested in at the moment is finding out what condition the frame is in. 

I bought some 4x4x8s and went to work.

... I had to use some high tech counter weights in the front to keep it down and level on the stand.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

The frame looks pretty clean and being a mostly South West car the body bushing holes look near perfect. 

What I am trying to show in the following pictures is what I am mostly concerned about. I plan on early next week taking it to a frame shop for evaluation and how much it would cost to repair.

Right above the rear coil springs.

This set is Driver Side. The Birds nest looking thing is a bunch of metal wire.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Rear Driver side continued.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Rear Passenger Side


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Definitely looks like someone had some problems with their wire feed welder doesn't it? Hard to tell from the pics but the frame looks good. Let us know what the shop says! Good luck!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I'd cut off all those wire tails (probably from someone trying to weld it up from underneath) and also dress the areas with a wire wheel, flapper disk, whatever it takes to get through the rust and down to bare metal so you can see what you've got to work with. The passenger side looks like it was split across the spring pocket at one time so that's the one that looks scary to me. The drivers side can probably be cleaned up, hammered back into shape, and re-welded. I'd be tempted to overlap some new metal all along the back sides of the joints end to end, sort of like someone started to do on that one section on the passenger side. What do the underneath/insides of the frame rails look like in those areas?

Bear


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Other than the spring pockets being iffy everything else looks really great. I'll try to get some more pictures of the frame rails inside and underneath. I talked to the guy who sold me the car not too long ago about possible purchasing another frame from him. 

Depending on the evaluation from the frame shop and how much this one would cost to repair I may start looking for a donor frame. 

Note: If anyone also attempts to drop their frame like I did, one critical thing I didn't think about was that at the current height which I believe is around 20-22 (24 -26 with 4x4s) inches my car sits on the jack stands is that when I dropped the car to the wheel dollies the upper a-arm does not clear the first beam. So the car will need to be raised still even more to roll the frame out.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

This past weekend I purchased a new frame and opted out of fixing my original frame that had been damaged.

Now to pick either the 2k ceramic or POR15. I'm more partial to the POR15 since it can be painted on vs having to spray. 

Any one use the POR15 Chassis Coat Black over top the POR15? Results?

I'll get some pictures up soon once things getting rolling again. 

I am thinking of getting UMI rear lower and upper control arms and KYB shocks.

Can't wait to get started!


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I vote sandblast, epoxy primer then extreme chassis black. Also I am very pleased so far with my KYB Gas a Just shocks. Found them on eBay 100 bucks cheaper than Ames for the set.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

*Slow Going but an Update*

Got some new KYB shocks, and non-adjustable upper and lower control arms, and new frame supports from UMI. Just a few more things needed to complete the chassis build ... brake and fuel lines, frame paint, and front disc brake kit.

Got a pressurized sandblaster two weekends ago to strip the frame. Its been raining here this weekend so I don't think I'll get to the blasting. Hope to have it blasted and painted by the end of the month with some shiny new things attached.

Here are a few updated pictures.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Looking good Josh. A full frame off like you are doing is quite the daunting task, but well worth it in the long run. It makes the project easier if you break it down into "smaller" restorations like you are doing. Definitely subscribed to this thread. :cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

:agree Hang in there Josh. Just keep doing whatever you can, when you can, and don't give up. You'll get there.

Bear


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

*Steering Wheel Rebuild*

While contemplating whether or not to buy a rotisserie for ease. (Thinking could get 3/4 the price back out resale) I decided to start rebuilding my steering wheel. Not doing a complete rebuild here. Just the lower boot and the canceling cam. My boot was destroyed and looked nasty. Waiting on new parts to finish it up. 

Here are a few pictures.


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

What type of grease was used to pack the intermediate boot shaft seal? Was it high temp bearing grease?


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Finally got my 12 bolt almost done just need to do the brakes and and oil. I had it powder-coated and axle tubes welded. All nice and clean now. 


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looking great!


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Got a few things done over the last weekend. Its been a while since I have posted to this thread. Been extremely busy lately. Here are some pictures of my frame that is in mid painting. I used KBS Rustseal and so far I love the results. I have since got more done and will be applying the topcoat here this weekend. I'll post more once it is done. I used Oxide Red so when I top coat in black I can easily see where I have been.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Lookin' good Josh.

Hey, any progress is good. It took me 6 years on my frame off, it's no easy task for sure.


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## Orion88 (Apr 24, 2012)

I was going through this thread and realized I somehow accidentally posted something I meant to post on my 70 restoration thread... Deleted that. Also josh the restoration is looking good. You seem to be progressing quicker than me so congrats. My oldest brother just moved to Phoenix so I hope to come visit him soon. I don't know where in Arizona you are but maybe we can meet up if I come visit my brother. Keep up the good work!


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

**Update**

I got my disc brake kit and some of the last pieces needing to be painted back from the blasters to get my frame back on the ground rolling. I'll post some pictures of the progress soon.

Merry Christmas. :cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

ALKYGTO said:


> Lookin' good Josh.
> 
> Hey, any progress is good. It took me 6 years on my frame off, it's no easy task for sure.


hah.... yeah, I rushed through and got mine done in about 23 years..... :rofl:

Bear


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

I got a little more done last night. Finally got those darn springs installed without any weight on the frame; what a fun journey. I installed partially the front discs as well (see picture). A few more parts and this frame is rolling for the first time in over 1.5 years. I used a jack and some tow straps to force the arms together with the springs in place (see picture). 

I did have some issues trying to install the sway bar, the sway bar bushings didn't want to line with the respective holes on the frame, almost seemed like they were a bit twisted. Anyways its been a while since I have posted anything so here are some new shots. 

I'm also volunteering at the Pontiac Heaven (pontiacheaven.org) event tomorrow so maybe I'll have some pictures of the event to post later.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Josh, wow! It is good to know you did this without personal injury. Matt


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Looking really nice, Josh. Congratulations on your creative (and non-lethal) solution. atriot:

Bear


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## Orion88 (Apr 24, 2012)

Haha, I did the same thing with my spring installation on my 70 a couple months back. Makes ya nervous but it works. I was especially nervous when I had to kick the spring into the control arm pocket as hard as I could to get it in. Looking good though!


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Also while installing the springs I learned a great tip. You can twist springs with a monkey wrench very easily. It will leave a mark but makes seating them a breeze.


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