# Troubleshooting no fuel - 67 -400 w/Qjet



## RDP- (9 mo ago)

*HILARIOUS UPDATE****
Soooo guess what? Yup you guessed it, the fuel gauge isn’t working, simply was out of gas
💀💀💀💀 😵

52 and still learning, «is it plugged in? » lol
*_*
Hi all, 1st poster long time lurker.
I parked the car last winter and all was fine.
Went to start this week and it would just turn and turn. Poured a little gas in carb and she fired up.
So when looking, figures out no fuel coming out of pump. So got a new pump, installed easily except for my big hands not fitting anywhere to get at bolt.
Still no fuel…🤬 I looked (video) right into mounting hole and everything’s shinny but can’t tell for the life of me if there’s an issue with eccentric.

Maybe wrong pump? Spring is not at same place as the one I removed (pictured)
Carb leaking fuel at gasket (1) could that cause a vacuum issue not getting fuel?
Thinking of blowing air back down the line pre pump towards tank to see if somehow somethings blocked in tank, but worries about blowing sock off?
Is it possible that I installed the pump incorrectly, under or over eccentric

1967 GTO fuel pump issues

Thanks for any guidance and coaching.
rob

Nb. Does anyone happen to know a great Pontiac mechanic in Montreal, quebec


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## GTOTIGR (May 3, 2020)

Hi RDP,

Beautiful car!

Sounds like a classic, back to basics, rule out the simple things first, type situation. If it were me, now that you know that a new / rebuilt fuel pump didn’t solve the problem, and as you say, it worked when parked for winter, you may want to put the original pump back on and run a hose from a gas can to the pump and see if it will draw fuel and start. This will tell you if it’s a gas tank issue/ blockage.

Did you replace the inline fuel filter recently? Before swapping the pump you should replace the filter. If it still won’t start, with the original pump on the car, take the carb off and clean it. There could be blockage in the accelerate pump or debris in the bowl. 

If it still won’t start, its possible, while unlikely, that your new fuel pump has a leaky diaphram. Nevertheless, you could return it and get a replacement to rule out the pump. 

Keep us posted - good luck.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Make sure you install the pump properly. Usually you will have to hold it to the timing cover with force as you load the arm against the eccentric cam. If there is no resistance, there may be an issue. All looks ok from the photos, very clean. I have had vehicles sit for a couple of years and not fire up and not pump fuel initially. Priming the carb and keeping the car running always ends up allowing the fuel pump to prime and start working again. My bet is that your original pump is just fine.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Was your gas fresh? Or is it 2 years old. I agree and think that you did not have the eccentric against fuel pump arm, you can feel the spring pressure when bolting it on if the eccentric is turned just a bit. That let’s you know it is seated. Old gas is hard to start and vaporize.

I would reset the pump, yours put on a new fuel filter if dirty and use fresh gas.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Make sure you install the pump properly. Usually you will have to hold it to the timing cover with force as you load the arm against the eccentric cam. If there is no resistance, there may be an issue. All looks ok from the photos, very clean. I have had vehicles sit for a couple of years and not fire up and not pump fuel initially. Priming the carb and keeping the car running always ends up allowing the fuel pump to prime and start working again. My bet is that your original pump is just fine.


Always start at the gas tank, then the rubber gas lines, my 66 had a big split right out of the sending unit, right against the tank so you couldn’t see it. It was the culprit, but me being a not very good mechanic I did the whole fuel pump replacement ect. ect. Led to timing chain & gears that it actually really did need as it was loose as hell, then when I got it all back together still no gas so took the fuel line that goes straight to the carb off and poured some gas into the line to prime the new fuel pump and nothing came out when I cranked it, switched the in/ out lines on the fuel pump as they weren’t marked, cranked it again and she was shooting gas like a 16 year old. So the new fuel pump I put on either has opposite in / out from the old one or I’m worse than I thought !😎


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## RDP- (9 mo ago)

GTOTIGR said:


> Hi RDP,
> 
> Beautiful car!
> 
> ...


Hi GTOTiGR, It’s great to get your feedback and wisdom, many thanks.
I did change the fuel filter to a transparent plastic one, so it eliminate that possible clog but also so I could see if there’s any fuel passing in the line. When I did get it started by pouring fuel into carb, it ran for maybe 30-60 seconds I checked and there was but just a 1/8-1/4” of fuel splashing around the fuel filter…
I’m gonna put Jerry can of fuel pump as suggested and see if new pump pulls anything, maybe I installed incorrectly.


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## RDP- (9 mo ago)

66COUPE said:


> Always start at the gas tank, then the rubber gas lines, my 66 had a big split right out of the sending unit, right against the tank so you couldn’t see it. It was the culprit, but me being a not very good mechanic I did the whole fuel pump replacement ect. ect. Led to timing chain & gears that it actually really did need as it was loose as hell, then when I got it all back together still no gas so took the fuel line that goes straight to the carb off and poured some gas into the line to prime the new fuel pump and nothing came out when I cranked it, switched the in/ out lines on the fuel pump as they weren’t marked, cranked it again and she was shooting gas like a 16 year old. So the new fuel pump I put on either has opposite in / out from the old one or I’m worse than I thought !😎





geeteeohguy said:


> Make sure you install the pump properly. Usually you will have to hold it to the timing cover with force as you load the arm against the eccentric cam. If there is no resistance, there may be an issue. All looks ok from the photos, very clean. I have had vehicles sit for a couple of years and not fire up and not pump fuel initially. Priming the carb and keeping the car running always ends up allowing the fuel pump to prime and start working again. My bet is that your original pump is just fine.


Hey thanks for the advice! I’m by far no mechanic, it’s tight in there to get pump seated to thread bolts, it did not just sit flush against engine, there was about a 1/2” gap that I need to ratchet down to close, it took a little elbow grease. 
the tank is full of high quality fuel, parked it full to help avoid issues…
I primed it with 3-5 oz of fuel, it ran for about 30 seconds I’m guessing but chocked out when I pulled on accelerator a few times and would not restart without more gas down it’s gullet…
Im gonna test the pump directly from a gas can, keep you gone folks posted.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RDP- said:


> Hey thanks for the advice! I’m by far no mechanic, it’s tight in there to get pump seated to thread bolts, it did not just sit flush against engine, there was about a 1/2” gap that I need to ratchet down to close, it took a little elbow grease.
> the tank is full of high quality fuel, parked it full to help avoid issues…
> I primed it with 3-5 oz of fuel, it ran for about 30 seconds I’m guessing but chocked out when I pulled on accelerator a few times and would not restart without more gas down it’s gullet…
> Im gonna test the pump directly from a gas can, keep you gone folks posted.


If you turn the engine over, you can get the fuel pump eccentric on its lowest point which makes it easier to install the fuel pump - which you should be able to see with your bore scope. If it is on the high side of the eccentric, then you gotta fight with it and using the bolts to pull the fuel pump in is not a good idea as the housing is aluminum and it does not take much to strip out those threads. If you do, plan on fixing with a heli-coil or other insert to make the repair. Don't forget your gasket.


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## RDP- (9 mo ago)

Gents, Any chance someone could put a yellow arrow on the eccentric in the photo so I know where the tab of the fuel pump should touch? From examining the old pump the eccentric was making context on the “top side” of the tab. So I’m thinking the I should have no resistance when installing if i do as Jim says and turn the engine over and use phone to see why eccentric is a lowest point and then just pop in pump?

what about if the parts guy gave me the wrong pump, The shape and the sins are almost identical but the spring mechanism is different as well as the position of the inflow and outflows?

Thanks
RDP


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

RDP- said:


> Gents, Any chance someone could put a yellow arrow on the eccentric in the photo so I know where the tab of the fuel pump should touch? From examining the old pump the eccentric was making context on the “top side” of the tab. So I’m thinking the I should have no resistance when installing if i do as Jim says and turn the engine over and use phone to see why eccentric is a lowest point and then just pop in pump?
> 
> what about if the parts guy gave me the wrong pump, The shape and the sins are almost identical but the spring mechanism is different as well as the position of the inflow and outflows?
> 
> ...


Your new pump at least has a stamped “IN” side, 
mine had no stamp at all. Have you confirmed that you have a steady flow of gas getting to the pump ?


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

66COUPE said:


> Your new pump at least has a stamped “IN” side,
> mine had no stamp at all. Have you confirmed that you have a steady flow of gas getting to the pump ?


If you have someone manually turn the big crank bolt while your sliding the pump into the opening you should be able to feel it and get it in straight and close enough to get the threads started safely when the eccentric is furthest away.


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## GTOTIGR (May 3, 2020)

Hi RDP,

The top side surface of the pump lever rides on the eccentric where in your picture it is shiny. You really can’t install it incorrectly if you slide the lever into the timing cover opening aligning it to the bolt holes. You may feel resistance, how much depends on the position of the eccentric, but you should be able to depress the lever by pushing the pump into position to line it up with the bolt holes. 

Gents, Any chance someone could put a yellow arrow on the eccentric in the photo so I know where the tab of the fuel pump should touch? From examining the old pump the eccentric was making context on the “top side” of the tab. So I’m thinking the I should have no resistance when installing if i do as Jim says and turn the engine over and use phone to see why eccentric is a lowest point and then just pop in pump?

what about if the parts guy gave me the wrong pump, The shape and the sins are almost identical but the spring mechanism is different as well as the position of the inflow and outflows?

Thanks
RDP
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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Your old pump arm, or tab, rides on the shiny part as GTOTIGR mentioned. Here is the doctored photo you requested. The arm makes contact between the yellow lines.










I am not 100% sure, but I'd bet that the arm always has some spring force on the eccentric. Which means, no matter where you turn the engine to...the pump will always have some resistance being pushed flush to the mounting surface of the cover. Otherwise, the eccentric would leave the arm every evolution and then have to make contact again...this would make an unpleasant sound compared to always staying in contact. Putting the eccentric in the best location will make it much easier to install...guaranteed!

It is not uncommon for the inlet and outlet to be in different locations or point different directions from your original. As far as the arm spring looking a bit different, I'd say try it out. I can see how the placement of the spring could be different after all these years of reproducing the pump or consolidating designs to use on many more different models...surely the designers have compensated with a different rate spring.

I'd blow some air back through the lines into the tank. 10, 20, 30 psi should be plenty of pressure. I'd start at 10. You'll know pretty quick if it's is passing the air...have someone listen through the filler cap with the cap off. Be aware of a full tank of fuel...you don't want to blow gas in your buddy's ear. If your sock blows off from that, it is clogged and has a very loose fit to begin with. My old sock was practically rotted away when I pulled the sending unit last year. There was no way I was going to blow it off with air.

I'm thinking your old pump is fine, but would move forward with installing the new pump after blowing the lines. Check your vent line too by blowing some air through it. Pour a shot of fuel in the carb, start the engine, if it dies...do this a few times to get the lines and pump primed until the filter is passing fuel. It should run like normal if you can get this far. Pulling from a gas can instead of the tank is a good test, but still may take a few shots of fuel and repeated starts until it primes up to the carb.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

Sick467 said:


> Your old pump arm, or tab, rides on the shiny part as GTOTIGR mentioned. Here is the doctored photo you requested. The arm makes contact between the yellow lines.
> 
> View attachment 152690
> 
> ...


Just a fyi, yes there was some force against the eccentric even at the easiest point, that spring inside the fuel pump is pretty strong.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Remove your gas cap while blowing out the lines. Or your return line undone. I did mine with one always connected and the gas cap undone.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

66COUPE said:


> Just a fyi, yes there was some force against the eccentric even at the easiest point, that spring inside the fuel pump is pretty strong.


Correct, there will be some resistance from the pump arm, but getting the eccentric to its lowest point/side will make it much easier to lift the pump body up against the spring pressure and install the bolts by hand to get them started. If it happens to be on the high side of the eccentric - much more difficult and certainly doable but takes more pressure to hold the pump body up and straight with one hand while trying to install the bolts straight that hold it to the timing cover - and that's where you can easily cross thread the bolt holes.

In this picture you can see the eccentric - egg/cam shaped. The fuel pump's arm goes underneath the eccentric. Looking at the bolt that holds it to the cam you can see how there is more eccentric below the bolt vs above the bolt, so the eccentric right now is on its "high" side and pushing down on the fuel pump arm and will have the most amount of pressure applied to it and fuel pump's spring. Get the eccentric turned 180 degrees as seen in the photo, the eccentric would be at its "lowest" side and the fuel pump arm will have the least amount of pressure being applied to it and the fuel pump's spring.


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## RDP- (9 mo ago)

Very well explained and illustrated, admittedly I was getting confused about the « high » and « low » point discussion, much appreciated.
As is often the case there’s another issue, my carb Qjet (7043250) is leaking in intake, I was just going to replace gasket but I read hear that some contributors believe making a gasket sandwich, paper metal paper, is the way to go, However a few mechanics and parts store gearheads say don’t bother?

there 3rd photo is what was on there now, the steel heat shield and 2nd gasket have a different pattern, I’m not sure what order the paper gaskets would go?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RDP- said:


> Very well explained and illustrated, admittedly I was getting confused about the « high » and « low » point discussion, much appreciated.
> As is often the case there’s another issue, my carb Qjet (7043250) is leaking in intake, I was just going to replace gasket but I read hear that some contributors believe making a gasket sandwich, paper metal paper, is the way to go, However a few mechanics and parts store gearheads say don’t bother?
> 
> there 3rd photo is what was on there now, the steel heat shield and 2nd gasket have a different pattern, I’m not sure what order the paper gaskets would go?


First off, the topic is "*Troubleshooting no fuel - 67 -400 w/Qjet*" - did I miss something? How do you have fuel leaking into the intake without fuel?

Second, installing a new base gasket won't stop a fuel leak - a fuel leak is a fuel leak and it needs to be addressed/fixed, period.

Third, the stainless steel gasket is for the 1967 carbs with the under the carb heat channel (that smiley face gasket) Always match the gasket to the base of the carb. Flip it over and make sure the gasket is not covering any of the open holes/vacuum ports on the bottom. Then make sure it fits the intake and both gasket completely seal around the edges and throttle bores. The thicker 1/4" gasket would be preferred as it will also act as an insulator. I would not use a paper thin gasket because if any warping exists, it may not seal and then you will have a vacuum leak.

Email/call Cliff Ruggles with your carb number and intake casting and he will tell you which gasket you need and then purchase from him as he specializes in the Q-jet and ensures you get the factory, or better than factory, parts. 



Cliffs High Performance Quadrajets – Quadrajet Rebuild Kits, Cabruretor Parts, Quadrajet Rebuilding, Quadrajet Parts, Bushing Kits, Carb Tuning


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## RDP- (9 mo ago)

Great advise, thank you!

Early in the trouble shooting process,The fuel leak was visible as I poured gas into carb to see if I’d get it to start.

Regarding the gasket, i did say paper but I meant ~1/8” looking felt; The ones I got are from Feltpro, seem well reviewed.
I did match gasket to carb via carb ID#. 
My question was that I was more curious if the felt/heat shield/felt) gasket sandwich which I read about in this forum was the conclusive best practice. Seems after researching my carb is from a 72 olds originally, now I digging to confirm 100% engine block and intake year…fun fun fun


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RDP- said:


> Great advise, thank you!
> 
> Early in the trouble shooting process,The fuel leak was visible as I poured gas into carb to see if I’d get it to start.
> 
> ...


OK, if fuel is old from pouring. Again, gasket/heat shield/gasket is the 1967 set-up and only used on 1967 as the exhaust gasses came up through 2 holes from the exhaust crossover and were open to the base of the carb, so the aluminum shield kept the hot exhaust gasses off the exposed bottom of the carb. 1968 and up intakes do not have this open cavity under the carb. I can't see it being of much use as a heat shield to dissipate under carb heat in preventing gas boiling out.

If anything, you want a phenolic spacer - gasket/phenolic spacer/gasket as the phenolic gasket can help keep heat temp down at the base of the carb. You want a 4-hole spacer, not an open spacer. You also want to use longer carb bolts to account for the thicker spacer. Raising it up 1/2" should not affect your throttle cable/linkage, but do check to make sure they are not stretched/tightened - you can adjust as needed.









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Chevrolet used a large aluminum heat shield under the carb/over the intake manifold to keep heat down off the carb, but it is essentially a big pie plate. Don't know how well it actually worked or most all GM cars would have had them.


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