# Sticky  Pontiac Windage Tray & Oil Baffle Tech



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

To windage tray or not, that is the question and everyone has an answer - including me. LOL But, rather than address that question, I have put together a series of photos of the early factory full length windage tray and what seems to be called the 4/5th's windage tray (da short one) later windage tray. I also included photos of the 1973 and up factory oil pan with the oil baffle and what a windage tray & oil baffle used together. I have a ton of photos, so this should answer most all questions.

Pontiac used a factory windage tray on their high performance and GTO engines. The early trays were a full length and used from 1965-69 and covers all 4 crank throws. The long tray was also installed on the 1970 350CI & 400CI engines and all 1972 2 bbl V8's. The shorter tray does not cover the front crank throw for #1 & #2 cylinders and was considered not necessary as the pan was so shallow at that point. It was introduced in 1970 on the 455CI. The engines that had them were 1970-73 455, 1971-73 400 4Bbl, and all 1972-73 V8 engines. The tray was discontinued when Pontiac introduced the baffled oil pan in late 1973.

Pic 01 - Side by side, the long windage tray versus the short tray. The long windage tray has been modified with additional oil drain holes. The factory long tray will only have 3 small 1/4" oil drain holes and the short tray only 2.

Pic 02 - The short tray. This is the side that will be facing the oil/bottom of the pan.

Pic 03 - I overlayed the short tray right on top of the long tray to show how much has been removed. It is essentially the long tray cut down.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> To windage tray or not, that is the question and everyone has an answer - including me. LOL But, rather than address that question, I have put together a series of photos of the early factory full length windage tray and what seems to be called the 4/5th's windage tray (da short one) later windage tray. I also included photos of the 1973 and up factory oil pan with the oil baffle and what a windage tray & oil baffle used together. I have a ton of photos, so this should answer most all questions.
> 
> Pontiac used a factory windage tray on their high performance and GTO engines. The early trays were a full length and used from 1965-69 and covers all 4 crank throws. The long tray was also installed on the 1970 350CI & 400CI engines and all 1972 2 bbl V8's. The shorter tray does not cover the front crank throw for #1 & #2 cylinders and was considered not necessary as the pan was so shallow at that point. It was introduced in 1970 on the 455CI. The engines that had them were 1970-73 455, 1971-73 400 4Bbl, and all 1972-73 V8 engines. The tray was discontinued when Pontiac introduced the baffled oil pan in late 1973.
> 
> ...



Pic 04 - Long tray length measures right at 20" in length.

Pic 05 - Short tray measures right at 15 3/4" in length.

Pic 06 - Both trays are the same width at 9 1/2". The oil pan inside width is 9 7/8".

Pic 07 - Side by side, this is the crankshaft side and you can see the mounting holes that rest on the main caps with the attaching bolts on th back side.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic 04 - Long tray length measures right at 20" in length.
> 
> Pic 05 - Short tray measures right at 15 3/4" in length.
> 
> ...



Pic 08 - So exactly how much oil does the center pocket of the windage tray hold? This is the short tray. It holds 2 cups, or 1/2 quart (I plugged the oil drain holes).

Pic 09 - And how much oil does the rear pocket hold? 1 cup.

Pic 10 - And how much additional oil will fill both pockets to capacity before spilling over? Between the 2 pockets, I added another 1 cup. So the short tray holds 4 cups, or 1 quart of oil.

Pic 11 - Here is the long tray filled up with 1 cup in the front pocket, 2 cups in center pocket, and 1 cup in the rear pocket for a total of 4 cups, or 1 quart. Interestingly enough, this was at capacity and any additional water I tried to use in filling the pockets up like the short tray had the water immediately spilling over the tops.

Pic 12 - Modified long style windage tray by Milt Schornack during a Royal Bobcat rebuild. An additional 4th oil drain hole is added and the holes opened up to 1" diameter for faster oil draining. Pan has also been deepened.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic 08 - So exactly how much oil does the center pocket of the windage tray hold? This is the short tray. It holds 2 cups, or 1/2 quart (I plugged the oil drain holes).
> 
> Pic 09 - And how much oil does the rear pocket hold? 1 cup.
> 
> ...



Pic 13 - 455CI block having the main caps #2 & #4 for the windage tray attachment bolts. Main cap #3 also has the bolt holes for the non-tray use and the short bolt on intermediate oil dipstick tube.

Pics 14-16 - Long tray set on the main caps covering the crank/rod assembly and the front and rear veiw of the tray on the block. No washers were used between the tray and main caps as are sometimes needed to provide additional clearances between the crank/rod throws so they do not hit the tray.

Pic 17 - Short tray set on the main caps.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic 13 - 455CI block having the main caps #2 & #4 for the windage tray attachment bolts. Main cap #3 also has the bolt holes for the non-tray use and the short bolt on intermediate oil dipstick tube.
> 
> Pics 14-16 - Long tray set on the main caps covering the crank/rod assembly and the front and rear veiw of the tray on the block. No washers were used between the tray and main caps as are sometimes needed to provide additional clearances between the crank/rod throws so they do not hit the tray.
> 
> ...


Pic 18-21 The Pontiac pan with oil baffle.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic 18-21 The Pontiac pan with oil baffle.
> 
> View attachment 137541
> View attachment 137542
> ...


Pics #22-26 is the dimensions of the oil baffle should you want to make one yourself and weld it in you non-baffled pan.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pics #22-26 is the dimensions of the oil baffle should you want to make one yourself and weld it in you non-baffled pan.
> 
> View attachment 137545
> View attachment 137546
> ...



Pics #27-28 The bottom has been removed to show the oil baffle and the tray which would be positioned above it. If the tray (short or long) is used along with the factory oil baffled pan, there is very little clearance between the two, it measured .17" This is without a pan gasket or the extra thickness of adding a crank scraper.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pics #27-28 The bottom has been removed to show the oil baffle and the tray which would be positioned above it. If the tray (short or long) is used along with the factory oil baffled pan, there is very little clearance between the two, it measured .17" This is without a pan gasket or the extra thickness of adding a crank scraper.
> 
> View attachment 137550
> View attachment 137551


*So how close do the crank throws come to the windage tray on a 455?*

I drilled additional holes in the tray above the crank throws. I did not install any connecting rods and take their measurement. There are 8 throws starting at the front with #1 to the rear #8. #1 - .36", #2 - .37", #3 - .26", #4 & #5 have the square cheeks and are much shorter and not even a concern, #6 - .23", #7 - .40", #8 on my crank appeared to be ground down for balancing purposes. But, the clearance between the crank throw and edge of the tray that it rotates past was .22"
.
The 389/400CI engines with a shorter stroke may have additional clearance, in the same manner that a stroker crank will most likely require additional crank throw clearances providing the tray can be shimmed or modified to work. It may be found that the tray will not fit at all and an aftermarket windage tray would be needed.

The rear crank throw, #7, measured .65" above the oil baffle if only a factory pan with oil baffle is used. Again, no pan gasket was used. If the baffled oil pan is filled with 5 quarts of oil, and the level of oil is 5/8" (.62") over the top of the oil baffle, the crank throw is almost in the oil level at start up.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

I quit using the full tray as the metal isn't as thick on the ones that I measured compared to the 4/5 tray.. The full length tray was more prone to cracking. Pictured is what I did to the last full length tray I used. After that I only used the 4/5. On strokes larger the the 3 3/4" on the 389 and 400, I've had to used a plate under the tray to space it a bit further away from the crank.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Here's an example of each type that broke.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Old Man Taylor said:


> Here's an example of each type that broke.
> 
> View attachment 137557
> View attachment 137558


Thanks for posting those pics.  Saw them before and was hoping you would throw them up here. I don't suspect this is quite the problem with a stock or mild built engine. The big lumpy ovelap cams and race engines produce more vibration due to the nature of the beast and suspect that over time the thin attachment points simply fatigue, crack, then give way. Welding on another strip of metal for added support would be good insurance.

Pontiac went with the 4/5th's windage tray as they did not feel there was enough oil in the front of the pan to worry about. Looking at it from a manufacturer's stand point, saving a couple inches of steel over "X" number of cars is a big savings as well.


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