# belt and pulley allignment



## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Sorting out belt tension issues on my 66 GTO.

It currently has a single groove water pump pulley that is too narrow in diameter to allow proper tension on the belt via alternator and PS pump adjustment. Currently just one belt is going around the crank, water pump and alternator pulleys (no AC), so there are weird washer spacers lining up the alternator with those 2 other pulleys. It's sloppy.

I've ordered a 2 groove proper diameter Pontiac OEM water pump pulley. From what I can tell from engine pics online there should be 2 belts. One inner belt (closer to block) for the crank and water pump pulley and one outer belt (toward radiator) for the water pump pulley to the alternator. Is this right? 

My engine is a '69 400 with '68 #16 heads, but I think I have older style, simpler accessory brackets from the original 389 that broke. 

The poor allignment has killed my power steering pump and alternator bearings, so I want to get it right when I instal the new ones. Any help greatly appreciated!!


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

this will be fun ......
so pictures always help ....
what year timing cover are you using the 66 67... a 68 ... or 69 up
gotta pull the crank pulley so we know the number on it its under the reinforcement ring
its gotta come off ,,,,just the 4 bolts and lock washers ,,,not the big bolt
whats your pump pulley number its on the face ?
then we can move on
yes power steering cars get a 2 groove water pump pulley
the 66 single groove manual steer water pump pulley uses a narrower belt

picture of a spare 67 68 69 70 non ac power steering pump


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Thanks for the reply *BLK69JUDGE *

I have an 11 bolt '69 water pump. not sure if it is the long or short snout (or how to tell). Block is a '69 YS 400.

I won't have time to pull the crank pulley anytime soon, but I'm attaching some pics of the PS pump i have on the way, the water pump pulley (number illegible in pic, sorry) and my engine compartment showing the current state of affairs. Hopefully that is something to get started from? Don't mind the crossover coolant leak, that's a whole 'nother issue...

Thanks!


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Looks like a 4.5" water pump (PN 30938A). May replace it at the same time given the bearing failures in the PS and alt. Any suggestions? Flow kooler?

Here are pics of the wonky washer-spacing currently positioning the alternator. I imagine with a proper 2 groove water pump pulley the alternator will sit farther back as it should and spacers can be omitted? Got a nice Tuff Stuff 100amp alternator en route.

thanks.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

I put on a CVF Racing serpentine belt system. They have good prices and made for Pontiac engine system. Check out their web. They are in Minnesota, super crew very helpful quality stuff. If you are not trying for original look. The serpentine belt is very easy to adjust tension, and you can easily change the alternator, even on the road.

The original alt and P pump changes can be aggravating with that sloppy bracket system.

just a thought for another way to look at it


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

one of my 69's and its power steering pulley set up 4.5 pump

9790846 crank non ac
9799127 water pump non ac
9786900 p/s pump non ac


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

super helpful.
the number on my PS pulley is 9786901xh
Eager to see what the water pulley number is when i get it, and what my crank pulley number is when I pull it. cross your fingers for me they all are "97s" I guess!

Anyone have the part numbers for the belts?
thanks a ton, saving me a ton of headache.


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Lemans guy said:


> I put on a CVF Racing serpentine belt system. They have good prices and made for Pontiac engine system. Check out their web. They are in Minnesota, super crew very helpful quality stuff. If you are not trying for original look. The serpentine belt is very easy to adjust tension, and you can easily change the alternator, even on the road.
> 
> The original alt and P pump changes can be aggravating with that sloppy bracket system.
> 
> just a thought for another way to look at it



those are relatively decent prices. i thought March was the only [unaffordable] option

Were I not considering an EFI upgrade, I'd probably go this route.
thanks


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

64-68 manual steer water pump pulley is 544585 ;;595?;;; going off memory ..
6901 power steering is for an ac or low gear car it has a larger diameter than non ac


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

ylwgto said:


> I have an 11 bolt '69 water pump. not sure if it is the long or short snout (or how to tell). Block is a '69 YS 400.


Measure from the pump/timing cover mating surface to the face of the fan mounting flange. Long (or standard) pumps are 4.5" deep. Short pumps are 4.0" deep.

I feel your pain. My '69 was an early production "short snout" car with factory A/C. I went with an aftermarket high performance pump that only comes in a standard/long version, a different power steering pump that has higher capacity because I converted to hydroboost brakes, and an SFI-rated harmonic balancer that does not have the "leading edge" chamfer that's required to allow the A/C compressor drive pulley to fit around. NOTHING lined up and I had to figure out how to move EVERYTHING forwards or backwards to line everything up. Just because of the pump change I had to move everything forwards 0.5" just to get started. Then because of having to run a "big car" crank pulley stack because of the SFI balancer, it had to move again. Then I had to deal with the different P/S pump because it used a different pulley offset and wouldn't accept my original one. And because I replaced the factory A/C with an aftermarket system.... It took a loooong time and I had to fabricate an alignment tool to help.

Bear


Bear


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Ok, 

So far I have my:
PS pulley 9786901
Water pump pulley 9778808
A 4.5" late '69 water pump
appropriate bracketry
new oem alternator

Given this is a non-AC, late '69 YS 400 is it safe to assume my crank pulley is the right one to "play nicely" with these other pulleys? 
Anyone have recommendations and part numbers for v-belts for this set up?

thanks!!!


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

ok

9786901 = 67-70 ac power steering pulley ,,,larger diameter than the 9786900 std non ac 
9778808 = 65 66 water pump pulley for 4" water pump and the early t/cover and early
power steering and brackets ,,,, 

in- appropriate bracketry ,right pump and pulley wrong brackets
safe to assume = crank pulley ... I thought you were trying to fix the issue ,,, 
"Pull it off "..5 minutes ...why wonder 
we need the number .. 979o846 or 9780842
846 smaller diameter non ac if its an 0842 its the 8" ac one

until you know what pulleys your running nobody has an answer on belts

already you have an ac power steering pulley .... = or fits 390 433 gear car


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

BLK69JUDGE said:


> ok
> 
> 9786901 = 67-70 ac power steering pulley ,,,larger diameter than the 9786900 std non ac
> 9778808 = 65 66 water pump pulley for 4" water pump and the early t/cover and early
> ...


Ok, I unbolted my crank pulley. 9790842 YB.
This was visible right above the retaining ring, coulda read the pulley # while still mountef to the balancer...is that odd?

So, 2 of my pulleys are for an AC equipped car (crank, PS pump). My car has no AC.
What is the best move here?

1. Track down non-ac pulleys for crank, 4.5" WP and PS
2. go all AC pulleys and just get the correct WP pulley and belts? Are these over-driven given they are all larger diameter?

Thanks all, I'm eager to get this belt situation resolved and the car charging and cooling properly again.


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

so
get a 9799128 water pump pulley for ac
and get ALL the correct mounting brackets and hardware for the 67-70 ps pump thats 66 stuff on there now ... pump looks like a 69 ... 66 return line is different ,,, fairly confident
pump is correct and will accept the 67-70 parts
and you r golden


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

thanks BLK69JUDGE

boy, what a PITA...had no idea it was a mish mash of years and accessory types. no wonder i couldn't shake the belt squeal and get proper tension no matter what I did.

That CVF racing v-belt system is sounding pretty good right now. just get it done rather than chasing parts and dealing with alignment headaches.









Pontiac V-Belt System - Power Steering


Billet Aluminum Pontiac Pulley System for 350-400, 428 & 455 Engines. Buy Direct and Save up to 55% on our unique Ford Cleveland Kits.




www.cvfracing.com





my upper water seal on the timing cover is leaking too, so may as well do the water pump, and change intakes, and....it's spiraling!!


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

why around 200 and you got all the right stuff
45-60 for a pulley
125 ish for brackets and 35 for belts

glad I spent time helping you make up your mind


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

It works either way certainly, bulk judge showed you how it could get done. But since it is not original anyway the CVF system is first class and they are great to work with. You already have the 11 bolt WPnwhich is required. CVF also has different length turnbuckles and gates belts so you can change that up for your car too. 

I can change my alternator on the road, in fact I carry one in the trunk with a new extra CVF pulley already on it. Try changing that set up on the highway. Forget it, those lower bracket bolts are a bear to get right.

CVF also will provide the PS pump with lifetime guarantee. 8 rib gates belt, they are a nice setup.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

PS your link above is for the Pontiac V-Belt system...that is multiple belts.....

You can do that,..but the one I use and am recommending is the Pontiac “Serpentine” belt system, one belt, 8 rib......you can do it either way.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

I use the CVF Black Pontiac serpentine system, alternator and power steering.....


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Lemans guy said:


> I use the CVF Black Pontiac serpentine system, alternator and power steering.....


The serpentine kit is a bit out of my budget, although very nice.
thanks


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

BLK69JUDGE said:


> why around 200 and you got all the right stuff
> 45-60 for a pulley
> 125 ish for brackets and 35 for belts
> 
> glad I spent time helping you make up your mind


Point taken.
Is there a resource or schematic for all the brackets/hardware I need for the 67-70 set up? 
I can track down a WP pulley, but I am not sure what the bracketry should look like or what bolts, spacers etc. I need to align it all. I've only ever had hands on experience with the '66 stuff.

again, thanks for all the knowledge.


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

i buckled and bought the CVF kit. Planning to instal in a few weeks. Very nice quality stuff.

I got a new Saginaw style pump, which the kit required, and have a question about the mounting studs on the back. The kit uses the upper mounting point, leaving the lower "stud" unused. It's a bit of an eyesore, so I'm wondering if I can just swap the top "bolt" plug to the "bottom" stud plug on the back of the pump? Will this cause any issues? Do these bolts need to be sealed with something?
Thanks


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## ylwgto (Oct 27, 2009)

Lemans guy said:


> I use the CVF Black Pontiac serpentine system, alternator and power steering.....



Finally got the front end done on the engine and got the CVF kit mocked up. Sorting out some spacer issues, but I think it'll be great.


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