# Please Help Me Answer Some Questions About The GTO



## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

Hello all. This is my first time posting, but I've been lurking this site on and off for a couple of months until recently, when I decided that a GTO would be a perfect car for me, and started visiting this site on a daily basis. I really enjoy the site, and must say that the maturity level in this forum greatly surpasses that of other forums of the same nature; I believe you all know what I'm referring to. Firstly, I would like to apologize for starting this “essay,” because half of the questions that I am about to ask have probably already been answered, but at the same time the other half most likely haven't, so I felt that it would be ok to throw in some “already-been-answered” ones. If it is not, then I apologize and will do what I can to rectify the situation. 

Anyway, I thought it would be good to give you guys a little information on my driving experience and what I currently use. I earned my drivers license about a year ago, and for about four or five months, I've been driving my sisters Scion tc whenever I need it. Laugh all you want, I know I do. Especially since the plates read “lilmisstc,” though that's little mystic to you! (With me being the mystic haha.) :lol: For a while now, I've known that what I want as my first “official” car is a Pontiac GTO. I do however, have some questions. If you have the time, answer the few that you can, and I would greatly appreciate it. Also please bare with me, as I really don't know much about cars.  To keep things simple, I'll make a list:

-As my first official car, is it a bad choice?

-How good or bad is the handling of the car? I haven't driven too many cars, so the only car I can ask you to compare it to would be a tc. I read online that the GTO actually handles well despite the fact that it's an American car, so I assume it handles a lot better than a Mustang.

-Is the interior really as nice as it looks in pictures? Every picture I see of the inside has me really impressed.

-Is the car as long as it looks in pictures?

-Should I get an automatic or manual transmission? I live in Queens so driving in traffic everyday is inevitable. Manual seems to be very complicated and I've never driven one, although my dad used to have a stick hatchback. Not really sure which one. I'm worried that I won't be able to get the hang of it, and as immature and stupid as this sounds, I can't really drive a “manual” car in video games, which I would think would be much simpler, considering the fact that there isn't even a clutch. I feel as though if you drive a sports car and it isn't a stick, people look down on you. I know I shouldn't worry about something so trivial, but it does linger in the back of my mind.

-As much as I like the way the LS2 GTOs look stock, I absolutely love the way this wide body kit looks: 


I found a very similar kit here:
2004 - 2007 PONTIAC GTO PRO-DTM WIDE BODY KIT :: Full Kits :: Pontiac GTO 04 - 06 :: Pontiac GTO Body Kits :: Pontiac Body Kits :: American Body Kits :: Body Kits :: Bodykits.com - Car Body kits and Ground Effects - 1-877-7BODY-KITS
What do you guys thing of it? It's seems to be really expensive already, and I have no idea how much extra it would cost to have it painted and installed. Also, look at the grill on the GTO in the picture, and look at the grill on the body kit in that link. The link's body kit has the grill of a Monaro I believe. Also, what happened to Lingenfelter's “Revenge” GTO? I liked the way that kit looked as well, but can't find it anywhere.

-What are the best performance mods I could get for about $3,000? I'm looking at the Corsa Sport Exhaust, but I don't know what it does to the car besides make it sound really nice. Does it add any horsepower, and if so, how much? I've heard borlas, slp loudmouth Iis, and I liked the way the Corsa Sport sounded the most, although they all sounded good in their own ways. Is an exhaust system something that you could put on by yourself, or do you need some type of mechanic to do it?

-Should the stock suspension be changed, and is there a need to add sway bars or struts to improve handling and body rigidity?

-How did this person get his grill to be indented like this, it looks very good:
GTO pictures | Pontiac GTO Photos - GTOpics_with_rims_008 - Powered by PhotoPost
His car as a whole looks very clean and I really like it, as I do pretty much all GTO's. Out of curiosity, does anyone know what size rims those are? I wouldn't want them any bigger than that, for fear that it might start looking ricy, which is exactly what I don't want in a car.

-Has anyone heard of 360 forged rims? They look like they would be on the expensive side of the rim spectrum, but does anyone know how much they would cost specifically? The carbon fiber ones look absolutely amazing. Why are they 3 piece rims though? What does that mean? If these are ridiculously expensive, what are some nice 5-spoke rims to look at. I ask for 5-spoke because I can't really see anything else looking good on it.

-Is Top Gears review of the Holden Monaro an accurate representation of the GTO here in the US?

-Last but not least, where would I learn about the more “complex” parts of a car. I'm honestly now very good with terminology and it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable when I read this forum. For example: what is a cat or a cat converter. What are long pipes? What does it mean to get a full exhaust? Does that just mean that it actually connects to your engine, and isn't just a fart can? How does one begin to learn. I've tried searching individually for answers to questions like this, but how would I learn about how these parts work as a whole, and in conjunction with each other? 

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at my thread, and for any answers or suggestions you might have for me. I really love the GTO and hope that getting one is plausible for me. Oh and are there any GTO meets in NYC or a neighboring area where I would be welcome? Sisters Scion tc and all? Haha. Thanks again.


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## Tri-Power (Jan 10, 2008)

ohh wow, that's gotta be one of the longest posts i've read in a while, but i did read the whole thing. Alot of your questions will be better answered by the new GTO guys, but i guess we should start with the, "is a gto too much car for a 17 year old?" generally the answer is YES. Nobody on here wants to see another GTO in the ditch, or in an accident. so you will see a good number of people try to convince you otherwise. I am 19, and know i know my way around a good number of high powered cars, and can ussually gain a tenth or two by just jumping in a buddy's car at the strip. If you learn how to drive on the M6, you may end up like this poor kid: YouTube - Kid crashes father's new Mustang into garage

as far as terminology....
LTs = long tube headers = exhaust manifolds that are very free flowing (not to be confused with shorties)

cat = catalytic converter= makes your car more environmentally friendly (and restricts exhaust flow)

alot of acronyms you will hear may refer to colors, or transmissions (M6 = manual six speed, A4 = automatic 4 speed)

I would stray away from performance mods as expensive as you have mentioned, because, i believe that you will already be a little overwhelmed with a bone stock GTO. With your limited automotive experience, im still not sure a GTO is the right car for you.


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

Wow, um..where to start? Welcome to the forum!
That was a very well thought out and intelligent post, but I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul. Just kidding.

- American doesn't really have anything to do with handling. The sheer size and weight makes this vehicle somewhat cumbersome.

- My advice is to thoroughly research each car you may want to own, taking into account: styling, liveability from day to day in terms of ride comfort, ACTUAL cost of purchase, cost of insurance, cost of fuel, where you want to be in a few years and if this car will fit in with your lifestyle. 

- Only you and your family can decide if 13 second quarter miles are too fast, and if you can contain yourself when being goaded into a possibly unsafe situation. (look for the post, "I got baited, bad!"

This in itself should give you enough to chew on for a while. Just make sure you don't forget to enjoy this process of finding your car, it is really a lot of fun. arty:

Again, welcome to the forum and good luck on your search.

-Brian


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

Oh, and as for the "Judge" body kit you have as your avitar, don't bother. Way steep.


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for the info man. I'm actually turning 19 in a couple of months though haha, though I admit that I'm still young. Thanks for the terminology clarification too. And btw, I wouldn't get any mods besides maybe a new head unit and speakers for a couple of months, most likely at least 6, and maybe even a year after initially buying the car. Oh and I completely agree about that body kit being waaaaayyy too expensive. I have no idea why these people would even ask for that much for a couple of shaped pieces of fiberglass. Why is it that a new crate engine is the same price as a body kit? A well thought out engineered and put together with care piece of machinery costs as much as some plastic. Oh and thanks for the compliment. =)


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm a few months away from 20. Let me tell you, if you have the means to own the car, I'd say pull the trigger. After all, someone has to live my dream!


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

AA GTO SP said:


> I'm a few months away from 20. Let me tell you, if you have the means to own the car, I'd say pull the trigger. After all, someone has to live my dream!


Do you not have a GTO? Why can't you live your dream? That sounds very sad to me.  I really want to bite the bullet, I just need to save up a little more for a down payment. :cool


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

I just read on SLP's website that their long tube headers are not street legal, but I've read a couple times on this site that if you get headers to get longtubes with it because they're much better. What are long tubes and what are headers btw?  Oh and here's what SLP says.

Q: WHY AREN'T SLP LONG-TUBE HEADERS LEGAL FOR STREET USE?
A: THE LONG-TUBE DESIGN REQUIRES THAT THE CATALYTIC CONVERTERS BE RELOCATED FARTHER AFT IN THE EXHAUST SYSTEM. REMOVING OR RELOCATING THE CATALYTIC CONVERTERS RENDERS ANY VEHICLE ILLEGAL FOR STREET USE UNDER FEDERAL LAW.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Headers are a performance increasing device which bolts on to the exhaust side of the heads. They equalise the length that the exhaust gas travels from each cylinder before it gets to the main exhaust pipe. By equalising the lengths it helps balance the power across each cylinder, thus increasing the total engine horse power.


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## cncmasterofor (Jan 19, 2008)

I almost bought a 5.7L 89 GTA as my first car. My old man suggested that I look at something with a little less HP. He knew I would have ended up wrapping it around a tree and possibly killing myself. So I decided to lisson to the old man and bought a 2.8L 89 Firebird. I know now, that I made the right decision. Everyone handles responsibility differently. I can only speak on what I would have done.

Keep in mind that fuel and ins are not cheep. And when that mod bug bites you...Watch out! 

If you do decide to pick one up. Keep the racing on the track. It's a lot of HP, and TQ. You can get sideways real easy. It's very tempting when a Cobra revs up on you.

As for the mods. I would suggest the suspension. There are a few weak points there that cause bad tire wear. Good tires will help keep the car on the road and are not cheep. A faster reacting IAT thermistor and or a relocating kit will reduce heat soak. Best bang for the $. IMO...

FYI JBA makes 50 state legal short tube headers. Not as good as long tube but better than stock. And welcome to the forum.:cheers


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks guys I'm starting to understand a little more. What are the differences between long tube and short tube headers though, besides the long tubed ones being better? Why are they better? Does anyone here with long tubes drive on the street or is that strictly a track thing? Oh and am I the only one that thinks the Brazen Orange GTO looks awesome haha?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Long and short refers to the length of the tubes between the flange at the head to the 4-into-1 collector on the end. The longer ones are slightly better performing, thus better for racing, but bad for the road (some not street legal).


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

I just made a Google search, but can't find anything conclusive on what brands make street legal long pipe headers. :confused Are these street legal versions any better than say mid pipe headers? A mustang website states that "If you need catalytic converters for a lenient emissions county, you can get by with mid length headers and high flow catalytic converters." Are these almost as good as long pipes, or is there no point in getting them? I'm assuming that generally it is a good idea to get new headers with a new exhaust system, am I right? Also, a muffler is just what gives certain cars a different exhaust sound, right? I.e. Fart Cans.:lol:

Source: http://www.moddedmustangs.com/ford-mustang-exhaust-upgrades.html


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## Partsguru1 (May 21, 2007)

FlameofOsiris said:


> Do you not have a GTO? Why can't you live your dream? That sounds very sad to me.  I really want to bite the bullet, I just need to save up a little more for a down payment. :cool




Why is it that by what you said in this post, I'm getting the picture of a poor little rich kid? Hell man, I'd venture to say that most of us didn't have the means to pay for our dream car when we were 19. I find it hilarious that you didn't seem to be able to comprehend that. Not trying to make you feel bad, I'm just thinking you need to visit the real world.

'Guru


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

FlameofOsiris said:


> Do you not have a GTO? Why can't you live your dream? That sounds very sad to me.  I really want to bite the bullet, I just need to save up a little more for a down payment. :cool


Haha, I just decided that I enjoy spending time with my friends/family as much as I can, rather than working at a job I don't like. Also, I really don't like working inside too much and the thought of a desk job scares the hell out of me.
To each his own though, and if you're willing to trade time from one aspect to another then its your choice to make. 
I must say though, if you were a spoiled rich kid, you present yourself in a very proper manner, anyway.


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

Lol not a rich kid, but my dad does provide. What's so rich about getting a $16,000 car though? I understand that it's not a beater or anything, but it's not like getting a brand new $30,000 car, ya know? I would be putting like a $3,000 down payment on it and paying the rest off monthly of course. The down payment is half from me, and the monthly payments are going to be at least 75% from me. My dad is going to be the primary driver under the insurance, with me being an occasional driver. My parents are going to spot me for insurance though, luckily.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

FlameofOsiris said:


> Lol not a rich kid, but my dad does provide. What's so rich about getting a $16,000 car though? I understand that it's not a beater or anything, but it's not like getting a brand new $30,000 car, ya know? I would be putting like a $3,000 down payment on it and paying the rest off monthly of course. The down payment is half from me, and the monthly payments are going to be at least 75% from me. My dad is going to be the primary driver under the insurance, with me being an occasional driver. My parents are going to spot me for insurance though, luckily.


That's getting treated pretty nicely by your Dad. It's not spoiled though. 

My first car was $3600. That was in 1984 though, so it would be more like 9-10,000 today. My dad co-signed the loan, that was the extent of the help, I financed $3000 for 30 months and had a car payment of 135 a month. 

We went golfing every weekend. Once a month he would say lets take the Magnum. On the way back from golf he say he needed a drink and to stop at a gas station. When we pulled in he would say hit the pump and filler up, he was buying. That was the only other help I got. Oh he'd buy the drinks too.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

Ya - my dad would help out in the gas Dept. too, from time to time. He was not a rich man and did the best he could. It did not help that my first car did not have working gas gauge. It was a Plymouth Satellite sold to me as a 4-door Road Runner, too young and stupid to know the difference. The car also did not have a reverse, no back seats, jacked-up way high in the back, bald tires, all primer, wipers did not work, no seatbelts, burned oil like mad, giant hood scoop. I think that just about covers it. Luckily I did not kill myself in that bucket of bolts… Bought it in 84 too for $650...



fergyflyer said:


> That's getting treated pretty nicely by your Dad. It's not spoiled though.
> 
> My first car was $3600. That was in 1984 though, so it would be more like 9-10,000 today. My dad co-signed the loan, that was the extent of the help, I financed $3000 for 30 months and had a car payment of 135 a month.
> 
> We went golfing every weekend. Once a month he would say lets take the Magnum. On the way back from golf he say he needed a drink and to stop at a gas station. When we pulled in he would say hit the pump and filler up, he was buying. That was the only other help I got. Oh he'd buy the drinks too.


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## QuickGoat (May 20, 2008)

Don't buy it. My first car was a 82 honda civic and i'm glad it was that and not my second car (84 Z28 5.0L). Because i beat the hell out of it being 16 year old. I would recomend an SRT4. They are fast, cheap, and a 5 speed so you can learn to drive a stick, so when you do buy a GTO you can pick which tranny you like (and can drive). I loved my SRT4!!  They claimed 5.5 to 60 and 14.0 in the quarter. Not bad for a turbo 4. Good Luck.


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey I don't wanna be a **** or anything, but can someone address at least a couple of the questions I asked in my first post? I just want some answers and figured that posting a thread would be my best bet. Please guys haha. :willy:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

FlameofOsiris said:


> -Is the car as long as it looks in pictures?
> 
> -Should I get an automatic or manual transmission? I live in Queens so driving in traffic everyday is inevitable. Manual seems to be very complicated and I've never driven one, although my dad used to have a stick hatchback. Not really sure which one. I'm worried that I won't be able to get the hang of it, and as immature and stupid as this sounds, I can't really drive a “manual” car in video games, which I would think would be much simpler, considering the fact that there isn't even a clutch. I feel as though if you drive a sports car and it isn't a stick, people look down on you. I know I shouldn't worry about something so trivial, but it does linger in the back of my mind.
> 
> ...





FlameofOsiris said:


> Hey I don't wanna be a **** or anything, but can someone address at least a couple of the questions I asked in my first post? I just want some answers and figured that posting a thread would be my best bet. Please guys haha. :willy:


Lets see....

1. Is the car as long as it looks in pictures?

It is not a boxy looking car, it's appropriately sized and sleek. The rear seats will accommodate someone 6'2 with leg room. Answer I'd say YES 

2. Should I get an automatic or manual transmission? 

Depends on your application. If you do a lot of city or stop and go driving then A4 may be a wise choice. You sate manual is complicated, and you never driven one. IMO learn to drive stick on a less powerful car then graduate up until you are comfortable in a manual in a car of this nature. Due to your inexperience on stick and you wanting this car I'd recommend automatic until someone teaches you how to drive manual. Learning in this car as a newbie you may end up as a statistic in roll over or not being able to negotiate this car. ANSWER....AUTO.

3. Body Kit?

RA6. Major $$ to have this car outfitted. You will need to feed the car with gas. You will quickly learn you'll need a separate bank account for gas. Unless you have lots of money to burn, then IMO.... Save up for it then gussy it up. 
Do I like it....Yes, would I shell out the money..... NO WAY.

4. Mods?

Can't help you there as mine has none. A good tune, CAI will net you some gains.

5. Should the stock suspension be changed, and is there a need to add sway bars or struts to improve handling and body rigidity?

Why would you want to do this? If you are just driving on the street normal, why go through the expense if there is nothing wrong. Do you plan to race it, etc? If so then you may want to go that route. The car handles great in curves and I feel no body flexing. Now if I were racing it then I'd want every advantage I could get and adding what you want will help. Unless you are racing it, and there is nothing wrong, my answer is leave it alone.

6. Is this car a bad choice for a first car? 

YES. Why? Your first car with 400HP, no experience, age, etc. etc is a recipe for disaster. Look at all the GTO's wrecked and a some of the drivers killed as a result of chances taken, misjudgments etc. Most are from what they thought was "skilled" drivers. If you think you will take this car and drive conservatively you are kidding yourself. As you progress in experience so does your risk factor. Your age, driving experience etc in this car bad choice. You need to hone your skills on a lesser car and graduate up, your chances of becoming a statistic in the wrong category is HIGH.

7. -How did this person get his grill to be indented like this, it looks very good

I am assuming you mean the grille inserts? They are SAP grille inserts. They are discontinued and you will have a hard time finding a set. If you do expect to pay though the nose for them. There are after market ones very similar to them for under 400.00.

8. Forged Rims:

Can't help you there.

9. Is Top Gears review of the Holden Monaro an accurate representation of the GTO here in the US?

I didn't read the review so I can't answer this question. If you read what the critics wrote about the car then you won't want one. I don't listen to most of them. If I listened to every movie critic who wrote an essay on a movie, then I'd never go to the movies. Your BEST critics are owners of the car, not some guy who is loaned one and paid to dissect the car. They are being paid to criticize not glamorize. 

10. Last but not least, where would I learn about the more “complex” parts of a car. I'm honestly now very good with terminology and it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable when I read this forum.

Google is your friend. Type in questions and you will find answers there. Most words are abbreviated, a dictionary and thesaurus will help you understand terminology. 

11. Oh and are there any GTO meets in NYC or a neighboring area where I would be welcome? 

Again Google up GTO meets in NY I am sure enthusiasts will welcome you.

The GTOAA is having their International Convention is Saratoga Sprigs NY the week of July 13. If you really want to educate yourself on this car, I'd make it a point to come check it out. You will find answers to all your questions from owners who have no mods to guys who have modded to the hilt. Think of it as an educational experience. You will then get a better understanding of this car.


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## Mike's06GTO (Mar 30, 2008)

*I agree completely with the Judge.*

If you are serious about wanting a manual learn on something with far less HP. I taught my wife how to drive a stick in my beater that goes around town and to work. (89 Toyota Tercell EZ hatchback 4 spd man.) The problem is that she won't drive it regularly and thus doesn't have anywhere near the skill needed to handle the goat. I don't think I need to tell you that she doesn't drive it at all. She likes to tell people that she could if she really wanted to, but at her current level that aint happening.  

What I am getting at is that you, in my opinion should start out with something in a manual transmission that has less power than a goat. With that said and looking back at your other post where you spell out the deal you have worked out with your dad. I think you are going to end up with a goat. So have fun and please becareful.

Afterthought: Go test drive a goat. Best way to know for sure.


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## FlameofOsiris (Oct 26, 2007)

Thank you so much guys. I'm thinking of maybe getting a G35 instead as a first stick car. I'm sure the insurance is cheaper too.


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