# Headers Question



## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Im planning on getting my GTO cammed so I called one shop and he quoted me $1000 for the labor/dyno tune and $925 for the cam and all the needed parts. He said that cam would get me to about 410-420rwhp with headers. He said he never did a cam install/tune on one without headers. But he said without the headers I would probably only pick up about 15-20rwhp. So I asked him about installing headers and he said it would cost $400 for the labor. I have been looking around for headers and long tubes with midpipes are typically going to run well over $1000. So the price of new headers plus install will pretty much double the price of the whole job.
But I found something that I might be able to afford and install myself pretty easy without moving the steering rack and the whole cost would be $740 rather than $1600.
So should I go with the JBA Shorties with the catless midpipes? Would they build power pretty good with the cam or are the long tubes really that necessary? I know the shorties would not be optimal but I will be saving close to $900 if I go the shorty route.


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## 04torridm6 (Oct 25, 2008)

I just did longtubes and the final cost was 1350 that was coated and installed. If you dont want to spend the money on kooks or slp just go with pacesetter, they will be cheaper than JBA....or if thats not your cup of tea, you will still see gains with the shorties and no cats just not as much as longtubes would net you.


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## thull97 (Aug 9, 2009)

04torridm6 said:


> I just did longtubes and the final cost was 1350 that was coated and installed. If you dont want to spend the money on kooks or slp just go with pacesetter, they will be cheaper than JBA....or if thats not your cup of tea, you will still see gains with the shorties and no cats just not as much as longtubes would net you.


agree.... pacesetters are one of the best headers for the money. u can get the jet heated for about 500. marylandspeed.com


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

thull97 said:


> agree.... pacesetters are one of the best headers for the money. u can get the jet heated for about 500. marylandspeed.com


How did you arrive at that conclusion? 'Best' as far as what? Are you running a set of Pacesetters? I only ask because I was trying to get opinions on headers for my car and my past experience with Pacesetter headers was that they leave much to be desired as far as fit and quality in that they caused exhaust leaks at both ends which I solved with double gaskets but you know that doesn't last. IMO, if price is the main consideration then you probably shoud run the stock manifolds until you can afford better quality headers. The headers I speak of weren't on a GTO but they were Pacesetters......


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

HP11 said:


> How did you arrive at that conclusion? 'Best' as far as what? Are you running a set of Pacesetters? I only ask because I was trying to get opinions on headers for my car and my past experience with Pacesetter headers was that they leave much to be desired as far as fit and quality in that they caused exhaust leaks at both ends which I solved with double gaskets but you know that doesn't last. IMO, if price is the main consideration then you probably shoud run the stock manifolds until you can afford better quality headers. The headers I speak of weren't on a GTO but they were Pacesetters......


Best bang for the buck is Pacesetter. Someone show me a dyno of their car with Kooks and their car with Pacesetter to prove it is worth an extra $500 just for finsih...

I'm going with shorties jsut cause I'm in the Army and I never know where I will be stationed. Otherwise, Pacesetter would be my route.


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## RJ_05GTO (Jul 6, 2008)

I think im gonna just go ahead and get some good longtubes. I will probably regret the shorties in the long run.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm getting StainlessWorks 1 3/4" LTs when I can either sell the Chieftain, GP, and extra 389 block or fall into some money again. I'd like a cam, plus the L92/L76 setup, maybe/maybe not the Livernois 402 stroker kit, and a Corsa Sport, but again, $.

For now I'm living with just a mild weight reduction, and soon a muffler delete. In fact I just found out yesterday that indeed my GTO does not have the skipshift delete like I had originally thought. :/ But I guess that's good, I know its pure stock like the dealer said.


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## Loubo (Nov 3, 2005)

RJ_05GTO said:


> I think im gonna just go ahead and get some good longtubes. I will probably regret the shorties in the long run.


Go the Long Tube route. Shorties are not worth the money.

I'm also looking to do a cam in the future and the cost you were quoted and the extra power stated sounds like what I have been told.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Loubo said:


> Go the Long Tube route. Shorties are not worth the money.
> 
> I'm also looking to do a cam in the future and the cost you were quoted and the extra power stated sounds like what I have been told.


I'm still waiting for proof that long tubes will net that much more then shorties and proof that brands make a difference.

No one ever has dyno's to back up this arguement.


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## Loubo (Nov 3, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> I'm still waiting for proof that long tubes will net that much more then shorties and proof that brands make a difference.
> 
> No one ever has dyno's to back up this arguement.


There is no argument - anyone who knows cars (and I'm talking professionals in the business) will tell you the LT's are the better way to go. BUT . . . if you like the shorties, cool for you. 

And . . . If you don't think brands make a difference, you are very naive young man.


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## GTO_06 (Sep 12, 2009)

RJ_05GTO said:


> Im planning on getting my GTO cammed so I called one shop and he quoted me $1000 for the labor/dyno tune and $925 for the cam and all the needed parts. He said that cam would get me to about 410-420rwhp with headers. He said he never did a cam install/tune on one without headers. But he said without the headers I would probably only pick up about 15-20rwhp. So I asked him about installing headers and he said it would cost $400 for the labor. I have been looking around for headers and long tubes with midpipes are typically going to run well over $1000. So the price of new headers plus install will pretty much double the price of the whole job.
> But I found something that I might be able to afford and install myself pretty easy without moving the steering rack and the whole cost would be $740 rather than $1600.
> So should I go with the JBA Shorties with the catless midpipes? Would they build power pretty good with the cam or are the long tubes really that necessary? I know the shorties would not be optimal but I will be saving close to $900 if I go the shorty route.


$400 seems a lil ova priced i called a shop 2 days ago to get my slp headers installed and he told me $250 3hr - 4hr job


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## thull97 (Aug 9, 2009)

you can only do what u can afford but personally i would save a little more and go with Stainless works longtubes, or u could get the pace setters and get them coated. check out marylandspeed.com


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I thought the best headers were stepped. You know, 4-2-1. Can't say I've seen any for LS motors though...


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GTO_06 said:


> $400 seems a lil ova priced i called a shop 2 days ago to get my slp headers installed and he told me $250 3hr - 4hr job


$400 sounds right fo rthe install. 3-4 hour estimate is very optimistic IMO.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> I'm still waiting for proof that long tubes will net that much more then shorties and proof that brands make a difference.
> 
> No one ever has dyno's to back up this arguement.


brands of LTs may have some difference that need to be demonstrated but the length is a matter of physics. it's about pressure wave speed at RPM and that requires a specific length. they're tuned just like a speaker. we think of everything in the pipe going out but in fact the pressure wave travels both directions. the pressure wave travels down and then back up the pipe to help with savaging. LTs work better in the lower RPM range because it's a lower "frequency" (analogous to bass in a speaker). read and digest "pressure wave tuning" in this article. shorties can never equal LTs in the meat part of the RPM range where we want it.


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## GTO-Marine1/1 (Aug 30, 2009)

i dont know about $400 for install i payed $200 In Yuma AZ.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GTO-Marine1/1 said:


> i dont know about $400 for install i payed $200 In Yuma AZ.


Thats a deal and a half.


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