# Diagnosing a noise in my 65 Goat



## 65 GTO Jim (Nov 9, 2019)

Bought my 65 in 2011. A 10 year frame-off resto had been completed in 1998.

About a month ago, I started to notice a rotational noise that seemed to be coming from the left front. Sounded like a wheel bearing. Pulled the bearing and examined it. Bearing - less than a year old - was fine.

Noise is intermittent (comes and goes). Metallic in nature. Increases, decreases with speed of travel.

Transmission was completely rebuilt in 2018, plus new driveshaft was installed. 

I'm stumped. Anyone got a suggestion as to what to check next?

Thanks in advance!


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Brakes, drums or rotors can both make a noise like that, grooves worn in or a poor lathe cut can make the drum or rotor wallow in and out slightly scraping,...temperature effects them so the sounds can change recheck the brakes......

Calipers and shoes can bang and grind as well

I would also check the ball joints, listen while you spin the wheel by hand, then remove the wheel and spin the drum or rotor...

You should be able to isolate it....

Check both wheels as sounds can fool you as to which side they are on


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## Noangelbuddy (Dec 6, 2017)

Not sure a visual inspection would reveal a damaged bearing. Problem you describe sounds like a bearing. My sons Infinity started having that problem recently. The noise would vary with speed and it seemed to rhythmically build up in frequency and then diminish...and repeat. Changed the wheel bearing and solved the problem. ( In his case the bearing had over 100k miles and his problem presented itself immediately getting hammered by a monster pothole. ) Like you I would not expect a problem with a one year old bearing....don’t you just love Chinese quality and reliability. 

NoAngelBuddy


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

You posted in the wrong forum. You want to post in the 1964-1974 forum, not 2004-2006 forum.

You said you pulled the bearing to inspect. I assume the outer bearing? There is an inner bearing as well. Bearing may look good, but how will you know if you have a flat spot on one? For the cost of bearings/races and seal, I'd knock them out and replace them just for insurance reasons. Nothing worse than loosing a bearing out on the road, or even worse, burning up a spindle and having to replace it.

Also assume drum brakes? Possibly a brake shoe hanging up and not retracting - either at the wheel cylinder or down at the bottom at the automatic brake adjuster. Brake drum worn out of round?

Any change in sound when brakes are applied?

Check to make sure something did not hit the backing plate and push it into the drum on the back side.

Other things to check:

It could also be in the engine compartment - bearings going out on the alternator or water pump. The water pump usually begins to seep water out of the weep hole to let you know it is going. My experience says the alternator bearing is more likely to go bad and will have a sound you describe. If the belts have been installed too tight, they will wear out bearings prematurely in both the water pump and alternator. Some people go stupid crazy when tightening belts.

Pull the belts off and spin each by hand to see if you "feel" that they do not spin smoothly.

Check your engine mounts. One (typically drivers side) could be broken or loose and the engine could be torquing over enough for things to hit or get out of shape.

Shock absorbers? Worn or broken. Bounce the car up and down with someone helping as your listener.

Sway bar bushings good? The end link bushings can go bad as well as the bushing that hold the sway bar. If they are worn, up and down movement of the car could cause metal to metal contact and make some noise.

Could be something else, but those are a few things to check. :thumbsup:


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

also

can someone drive your car while you walk beside it ... going slow?
and you listen or a mechanic buddy ?

some balance weights on aftermarket rims are glue/stickyback style weights

I just got thru rotating my 33" Goodyears on my 4x4 86 Chevy shortbed
for the first time .on these tires.. guess what ... yup putting the backs on the fronts the
weights were 1/2 an inch inboard too far and they hit my caliper bracket
nice job GOODYEAR tire boys ...spent 2 hours screwin with that last month

it was a vVERY metalic sound but obviously didnt come n go..

how about the trim ring .... I have had squekers b4 on my 14x6 rally II on my
68 Convert . or hubcap squeek like my 57 chev sedan delivery got once when the poverty cap almost fell off ?

I am leaning towards an inner bearing ... did you pull the drum off and check the inner
as the guys above asked....??

also wipe your spindle down and look at the BOTTOM of the spindle where theinner bearing rides,,,, they can get a bearing race groove from miss adjusted bearing..
high mile... etc and the race will rock on the spindle ,,, and kill a bearing fast...

happened to me on my 40 chevy coupe at 3 sets of bearings in a month .... 1979...

do you have original drums or disc upgrade ....?


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## 65 GTO Jim (Nov 9, 2019)

First, sorry about posting my question to the wrong section. Newbie error. Thanks for the first 4 responses. Very much appreciated.

Meanwhile, to update things a bit, I put disc brakes of the front immediately after buying the car (2011). 

When checking the front left last week, I removed the caliper and inspected both the inner and outer bearings. No obvious defects were found. Both bearings are less than a year old. I did not, however, wipe down the spindle and check for wear on the bottom. I'll do so if I have to pull the wheel again. Also, the caliper looked fine and there was plenty of meat on the brake pads.

To the guy who mentioned the beauty rings, the car has factory-correct 1965 Rally 1's. I'll pop off the beauty rings tomorrow and drive the car to see if that will eliminate the noise. Know they can create noise, just hadn't thought about checking them. 

Might also add that no vibration is noticeable in the steering wheel. A date-correct Pontiac power steering unit was added circa 1986.

This is very slight, but may be important. I might be getting paranoid, but the front end seems to walk very slightly left and right. I believe all the front suspension is original, so the suggestion(s) to check all the front suspension and bushings, including the ball joints, is probably where I ought to go next.

The car is 54 years old and just like everyone else who owns an old Goat, I'd hate to have something break loose while I was going down the road.

Again, thanks to all the guys who have commented, and feel free to update your thoughts if something I've added in this reply sparks any additional concern.


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## cij911 (Oct 25, 2017)

Since you said it was intermittent, I am going to guess that your brakes are dragging ....

To verify push the brakes fairly hard when driving (safely) and see if the noise goes away.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

cij911 said:


> Since you said it was intermittent, I am going to guess that your brakes are dragging ....
> 
> To verify push the brakes fairly hard when driving (safely) and see if the noise goes away.


X2. The pads ride practically on the rotors. If you had a caliper piston that has some light rust/corrosion/burr on the piston, it can hold the brake shoe slightly on the rotor and create some drag/noise. I had a Toyota that had this issue. Was good until it hit a certain wear on the pads, then the caliper piston would catch just a little and make a dragging sound and slight pull to the right. I knew what it was, just left it alone and within about a week it would stop as the pad wore just enough to get the piston past that "stuck" spot. Did the front pads 3 times on the car putting over 140,000 miles on it with 130,000 on it when I got it, so I knew what the sound/feel was and what was happening - I was too cheap to install another caliper and didn't feel it was a safety issue as it never locked down the brake.

HOWEVER.......if the pad is not releasing from the disc when you apply it, it will drag and cause the car to wander a little as one side of the front brakes is still dragging while the other is not. Until it stops dragging, you may experience the car wanting to pull a little to one side and then you are correcting it to center, only to have it pull to that side again, until the pad wears enough to provide the necessary air gap between the pad/rotor and no longer drags. Then it steers fine until you apply brakes again and the process repeats.

Still a good thing to check the front end for worn parts. The idler arm is one of the part that is often missed as it will wear out and get sloppy and cause wandering. Next is the drag link and tie rod ends. Then ball joints & A-arm bushings. And check alignment.

If a car is not driven regularly and it sits a lot, and for log periods of time, things can develop light rusting, oxidization can take place that corrode parts, seals/rubber parts can become dry and stiff or even get out of shape, gas goes bad. I am not a fan of putting away a car for the winter and letting it sit 7-8 months at a time. Plenty of good, cold, sunny, road free ice/snow days where a car can be driven.


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## 65 GTO Jim (Nov 9, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Plenty of good, cold, sunny, road free ice/snow days where a car can be driven.


The Goat rarely sits for prolonged periods. I live in Bonita Springs, Fl which lies midway between Fort Myers and Naples. We're snow free 365 days a year and, thankfully, the only time we see ice is in drinks :smile3:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

65 GTO Jim said:


> The Goat rarely sits for prolonged periods. I live in Bonita Springs, Fl which lies midway between Fort Myers and Naples. We're snow free 365 days a year and, thankfully, the only time we see ice is in drinks :smile3:



Ah, you stink! :yesnod: I have family in New Port Richie and Zephyrhills. I and a younger brother plan on moving there ourselves - me in a few years when I retire and him in about 10 years. We both figure Florida is the place to be for the reason you stated - year round car driving of our toys and the car shows, and air boats. :thumbsup:


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## 65 GTO Jim (Nov 9, 2019)

cij911 said:


> Since you said it was intermittent, I am going to guess that your brakes are dragging .... To verify push the brakes fairly hard when driving (safely) and see if the noise goes away.





PontiacJim said:


> X2. The pads ride practically on the rotors. If you had a caliper piston that has some light rust/corrosion/burr on the piston, it can hold the brake shoe slightly on the rotor and create some drag/noise.
> 
> Still a good thing to check the front end for worn parts. The idler arm is one of the part that is often missed as it will wear out and get sloppy and cause wandering. Next is the drag link and tie rod ends. Then ball joints & A-arm bushings. And check alignment.


The front disc brakes were installed in 2011 now have 25,000+ miles on them. Time to do some routine maintenance work. They're probably dragging for some reason and that's what I'll check into next.

As for the front end, time to have that checked out too ... even if servicing the brakes eliminates the noise.

Thanks again for the help.


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## Gtowally (Jan 19, 2019)

I’m confused...if this was posted on 2004-2006 thread how come I’m reading it. I mean why did it go into my mailbox, as far as I know I’m only a member in the older version (64-74) and all the responses are from there


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Gtowally said:


> I’m confused...if this was posted on 2004-2006 thread how come I’m reading it. I mean why did it go into my mailbox, as far as I know I’m only a member in the older version (64-74) and all the responses are from there


*New* posts will show up in "Recent Discussions" whatever year forum they were posted. The problem that can arise is that it gets buried after time and then if you go and search for it thinking it is in the 1964-1974 forum, you won't find it - it gets lost in the system fairly easily.


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## 65 GTO Jim (Nov 9, 2019)

Removed the beauty ring from each front wheel (Rally 1's) and drove the car. Noise disappeared. *BLK69JUDGE* mentioned this was a possibility. 

I took the Goat to an alignment shop. We jacked up the front end and spun the front wheels mechanically, varying the rate of rotation. There was no indication of any noise. Nary a squeak. We couldn't recreate the noise. This was really puzzling. 

We dropped the car down. Mechanic got in and drove it. Heard the noise at that point. We brought it back to the shop and popped off the trim rings. No more rotational noise.

With the weight of the car on the wheels, there was apprently enough flex in the steel rims to create the noise. Reinstalled the rings, making certain that the rings were laying flat and all four clips were biting securely into the wheel. Problem solved.

Apparently three clips were biting securely, while the fourth one was just touching the wheel. Note: My Goat has original equipment Rally 1's and the beauty ring clips bite into the bowl of the wheel (not clip onto the outer edge of the wheel as is the case with repro trim rings). This probably couldn't have happened with a set of repro Rally 1 trim rings. 

Thanks again to all those who offered their advice. I hope ths info may help the next guy who guesses he has a bad bearing, not an improperly attached trim ring.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks for the update and follow through with what you found. This may help someone else who encounters the same problem. I am going to repost this as "Trim Ring Noise-Rally I's" so your experience doesn't get buried and lost when another member is searching for it.


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## BLK69JUDGE (Jun 10, 2010)

SWEEEEEEEEEET !!!!

thats great news!!

it is a unique sound ,,,,, its surprising how much the wheels do flex....

glad you have an open minded mechanic ....

and found the squeeker ....

HAPPY HOLIDAY ... 

ZOOOOOOOM ZOOOOOM


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