# 05/06 LS2 in a '67 GTO?



## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

Newbie here. Before blasting, I did do a search before asking this. 

I have a 2006 GTO and am looking to buy a '67 with no motor but with 4 speed trans as a companion car. I'd love to put a 2005-2006 GTO LS2 in the '67. Has anyone here done it and how easy/difficult is it? Would also consider putting the modern A4 or M6 trans in the older car as well. Anyone done that? Idea is for totally stock look with modern real GTO running gear. Thanks in advance.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

It's been done, not just in GTO's but in other A body cars like Chevelle. It's not hard at all as long as you have some general mechanic skills. They actually make everything you need in aftermarket kits. I think Edelbrock makes one. I'd go with a 4L60 or 4L80 transmission though.


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

GM has a new engine line called the E-Rod. The LS3 is available and it comes with everything you need to put the LS3 in a classic car (short of the various mounts). They are turnkey engines.

GM Performance Parts | E-ROD LS3 | The Future of Hot Rod Performance


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mikesan, I have to ask, how many miles have you driven/ridden in a vintage GTO? The reason I ask is that it seems that the people who want to do the most extensive mods and install modern powertrains are the people who've never really spent much if any time behind the wheel of a '64-'74 GTO. No offense is intended...I'm just curious. But now I'm wondering how slick a Hyabusa motor would look in a '53 Harley...........Thanks........
Jeff


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

geeteeohguy said:


> But now I'm wondering how slick a Hyabusa motor would look in a '53 Harley...........Thanks........
> Jeff


Hardly the same thing.......:confused


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

OK here is the deal. I am from the mid to late 80's in high school, and when I became a true gear head. This is when EFI was born, and every one wanted to put in L98 tune ports, in every muscle car alive. At least the younger guys. Why, because it was new and cool, plus not every car had them. Yes there are many LS series engines out there in the used world now. So supply and price is where it needs to be.

Let me say first. That it is a cool mod, and the coolest one is the Solstice Mallett Cars V8 Solstice Conversion

So here it is in a nut shell. I have had a 99 LS sts turbo RA Trans Am Dyno tuned, a 01 z06 cam'ed LS7 intake chipped, several 455 Olds. I have a 67 Camaro 560+ hp 427, a 78 400 W72 ws6 S.E. Trans Am, a 88 L98 GTA Trans Am, a 89 L98 Trans Am 30th anniversary GTA, and a 08 Hayabusa. Just to name a few things to get my speed addiction fix. Plus I have had friends with many 60, 70, 80, 90, 00 and on muscle cars. The bottom line, HP is HP. 400hp LSX motors are no more powerful then 400 HP old school Pontiac or 427 Chevy, or what ever. So it comes down to a conversation peace. 

Are you wanting to head to a car show, or the local cruise spot. To pop the hood on both cars, and say, I did the LS swap and it matches the new car? That is all fine, and what hot rodding is all about. But the real question is do you have the money to do it, and not I make that much a month, or a year. So if I don't eat or buy gas I can do it. Anything can be done and you can shop around till you find what you need, for your budget. The next thing is time. Do you have the time? What seems to be really easy, just a few week ends, and some friends, and it is done. Can be the farthest thing from the true there is. There is a reason why cars sit undone for years. Life happens. The next thing you know, 3 to 4 years have past, and you don't have the time or money now. Happens to everyone all the time.

Now lets talk about space and tool. Do you have what it takes? I have been collecting tool for 25 years now. Let me tell you, I have spent thousands of dollars on tool. Many from actions and pawn shops. Let alone Sears, Harbor Freight, Mom and Pop tools, Snap on, Mac and S&K. Do I have enough ,or the right ones, to do swaps and restorations? Well I have many, to most, but not all. As for room, an empty 2 car garage, that can be used for 2 years is the minimal I would try.

Then there is skill and dedication, both equal. Passion and the ability to say I am working on the car, not heading out to party or chase your girlfriend/ wife around. Is what has to happen. If you have kids under 12, forget about it, if you need to sleep more then 6 hours a night and stay married. Skill well let me say every one and I mean every one is still learning. Painting your room or the grill is a start. But doing it and doing it right are 2 things all together different. So learning is an expense you have to be ready to pay in time and money.

These are things that will stop you dead in the water. You might think, that happens to other. Well it does, and trust me, it will happen to you time and time again. Just look at some of the car for sale on craigslist. I would bet most are there because moma left or is leaving if it doesn't get sold.

All of this is the hidden coast of car ownership, and the ability to do it. It is a rich mans hobby, or a poor mans nightmare. So buckle up, sit down, and ask yourself, have I done something like this before? Can I really commit? Does it have to be complicated or will simple be just as much fun to drive around? Are the people around me willing to see me doing this? By god do I really have the money to see it through?

This is why I bought a Hayabusa. Simple, cheap, small, and I can make monthly payment. That does not inter fear with my car projects, well in money wise, not time. So a few more years on the project.:seeya:


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

HP11 said:


> Hardly the same thing.......:confused


Yes and No

Yes it is faster 
No it won't leak any more:rofl:


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm gunna have to respectfully disagree with you on the HP is HP paragraph of your well thought out and obviously time consuming rant. HP vs HP in regards to engine displacement might be a more accurate statement. A LS7 with hypothetically 450 HP will have a better 1/4 time then say a SB 350 with the same HP. Both engines are roughly the same size and displacement, but the LS7 weighs about 70 to 110 lbs less depending on who you talk to. Put those engines in the same cars with the same running gear and same weight and same driver and the LS7 will win because it will be pushing less weight down the track. 

I had a '54 Chevy with a 454 in H.S. At the wheels I was making right around 425 HP and 430 torque according the the H.S. dyno. My friend had a '78 CJ7 Jeep with a 350. Now he had head work done and a pretty radical cam and aftermarket intake. It was bored and stroked and if memory serves all said and done I think it was more a 427. He was putting 430 HP and I can't remember the torque but it was pretty close. When we went to Thunderbird and raced...he took me by almost three car lengths...and I beat him off the line by almost 3/4 of a second.

My dad had me behind the wheel of a race car/drag car when I was 12 years old. My friend had never raced a day in his life. His vehicle just weighed less and put out respectfully the same power. So HP is not HP.

No I like my old Pontiac 400 with the tri-power. It's a beautiful engine. I also like my Dodge Cherger SRT with the Hemi. It's a wonderful car. Would I put an LS7 in my GTO...in a second if I had an extra $10,000. Less weight, better performance and tune-ability, less money at the pumps (depending), and EFI (and from living at altitude let me tell you, tuning the carb everytime there is a high or low pressure system coming though makes EFI a nice comfort)


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh and if you put a Hayabusa motor in a Harley...well I don't even know what to say to that...it's like having sex in church...you may get struck by lightning.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

Well the busa in the harley wouldnt work since the motor would disintegrate the bike in about 12 seconds- a 53 harley probably put out about 50 hp on a GREAT day, a Busa 150+ good luck with that. and church is one of the best places to have sex- ask any catholic priest--now the LSx into any sixties era muscle car is no problem as long as you have the cash. I know i have done this swap- 02 LS1 into a 65- LOTS OF TIME AND $$
but efi reliability and fuel mileage plus my motor is in a car that is 1000lbs less than the car it originally powered- plus it looks REALLY cool under the hood


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

Hahaha...little boys don't count


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

I am not saying it shouldn't be done, but was saying it doesn't matter apples to apple, not oranges to apples. To say the LS7 is going to win when you said it weighs less, of course it is elementary at best for any one to understand, but you said weighs the same then also said it doesn't weigh the same in the same thought. I do understand you are trying to say the same wieght car with out engine. The trouble here is that the LS engine is really a small big block or a mid size block not really a small block. They do make all aluminum small and big block chevy. Even old Hemi's. That is why I say apples to apples. The Ls engines are amazing and the term small block is lose at best in physical size. It is like calling a 351 Modified a small block. It might have small displacement but it is a 385 serious engine same as a 460.
Just have to say a big block 454 at 425hp with only 430 torque something is wrong. Small block chevys all most always make less torque then hp, but can be built "to spin at higher rpm". A 3,500 Lb 54' vers a 4,400Lbs CJ7. The jeep won all I can say is gearing or driver or both.

Weight, bias, gearing, and driver all being equal is all blind to engine hp as long as power curve is the same: LS7, BBC, Hemi doesn't matter. I have owned both LS engines, small block, and Big block. I have even raced my busa against my 01 Z06 vette with my brother inlaw driving the Z06. 436 HP at the wheel per the dyno sheet from the tunner. The vette got me off the line but I walked away from it around 80 miles an hour. By many car lengths. That was 185 hp at the crank stock Hayabusa.

Is it a Hp war. That has been going on since like the 1920's. But if that is all your looking for then why jack around with a crappy LS engine and just buy a Donivan Block and quit acting like a little girl and get about 3000HP out on nitromethane and run it like a pro mod.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Now this is really going to blow you out of the water. I drag raced all the time a 99 T/A 6 speed it had a LS1 sts turbo kit and injectors with 15lb of boost and was dyno tuned 425 hp at the wheels. Quarter mile time 12.93 to 12.78 best times. I didn't like the turbo lag and the need for the methanol injector. So got a 01 Z06 6 speed LS1 that I did a cam swap, LS7 intake with injectors, and dyno tuned 436 at the wheels. 12.50 best time quarter mile. All at St. Louis Gateway international. Now I take the 67 Camaro 427 iron block old technology peace of crap and run 11.6's all day every day. 

Big block chevy total build coast $5,500 Car $3500. The STS turbo kit coast $4,600 used 99 T/A $15,000. The 01 Vette $26,000 cam, intake, and injectors $2000. Don't get me wrong the vette got 30 miles to the gallon if you babied it on the highway. The 99 T/A about 26 if you drove it the same way. But guess what if your using a high performance car as a daily driver your destroying it and wasting money. 1987 crx si all stock I dive it like I stole it and get 33mpg city highway what ever and if I baby it and drive it on long trips 40mpg. Car coast $450


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## LS2 MN6 (Jul 14, 2010)

likethat said:


> But guess what if your using a high performance car as a daily driver your destroying it and wasting money.


Actually modern performance cars are designed and tested to be driven daily. The cars won't be approved for production unless they can viably driven as your only car. Technically you can (and some crazy people do) drive Z06 and ZR1 Corvettes in the snow.

I drive my 2006 GTO year round (in the last 8 months I've logged 10,000 miles more than the previous owner did in 3 years), and my 2008 Corvette has been my summer DD for 3 years now (at the tune of 8000 miles per year).

Buy to drive, not to stare. Your engine, brakes, suspension, and other bits will thank you. They are not designed to "sit."

If you mod it so much that you can't drive it daily, and you don't regularly track or drag it then you've wasted a lot of money. Buddy of mine, his father has a 650+ hp Viper, it sits in the garage maybe it sees a track 4-5 times a year, gets driven a handful of times. Now that's a waste (of over $100k).


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

I drive my GTO as a daily driver. May hit me hard with gas money, but to tell you the truth, wouldn't want it any other way. Like what was stated above me, these cars were made to be driven, not garaged.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

I did drive them plenty but not in the rain to much or the snow. There are other people out there that like to drive bad so I am a bit scared of them. If you ever drive North County St. Louis you will understand. Crappy drivers and many with out insurance. I drive a 87 chevy 3/4 4x4 in the snow and the honda if it isn't to bad out side. It will go thru most all snow just a bit small to go up against a plow truck. I just don't want to add a lot of miles to my cars or put it out there to get wrecked. I swap cars a lot and like to re-coop some of my money.

I worked with a guy that drove a BMW motorcycle year round in St. Louis he put a side car on it in the winter and had a heated suite that he plugged in to the bike. He didn't even own a car or a truck. It was only 10 miles to work for him but he was a crazy S.O.B.


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

Jeep didn't weigh in at the 4400 pounds. He had cut it down as much as he could so he could put paddles on it to make a sand drag (fiberglass front clip and as much "non essential" metal he could pull out of it). And your right about my '54...it wasn't built for racing but for hauling and towing. We used it to pull the race and car trailers (after adding about 300 lbs or more of ballast to the truck). I can't remember what the numbers where exactly (it was 15 or so years ago) but I know the torque peaked at a pretty low RPM.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

I was looking into possibly getting another daily driver instead of the goat now with the gas prices rising every second!! But I figured I'd just deal with the prices and if it comes time when I put too many miles on her, LSX motors can be replaced  hehe


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## GTOcop (Mar 20, 2011)

I was thinking the same thing Falco. Instead of financing a new vehicle maybe I'll finance a LS conversion...may e a LQ4/9 actually so I can bore it out a little more then the aluminum blocks. A 4L80e and about $2000 in suspension and a larger disc brake. It should all come out to about the same price. About $15,000 I think


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Exactly! Plus it would be beneficial to me since I can't get enough of the GTO. I absolutely love the thing. See the good part about me is im still young. So by the time my goat hits miles high enough to warrant a new motor and such, i'll be much older and probably with a different car as my daily driver. So then it would definitely become a fun project =)


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Cars have been modified since they were introduced over 100 years ago. It depends on the owner/driver, and what they're after. I've driven some of the newest and hottest stuff, and a lot of old stuff, hot and not so hot. My taste is for mostly "period correct" so that I experience the visceral feel of the beast. The new cars and drivetrains are so refined, 120mph feels like nothing. Rock steady, no wind noise, no fuss, no muss. A new musclecar will blow the doors off a vintage one, but the feeling is totally different. If I drive a vintage GTO, I want to experience the feel of a vintage GTO: rumbling exhaust, muncie gear whine, wind noise, the whole thing. My '65 feels like a wild, fire breathing animal, unable to be fully tamed. Primitive and absolutely Bad A$$. It is slower and handles worse than the new stuff. I'm OK with that. That said, I DO run radial tires and sway bar upgrades. My '67 rides and drives better than most new cars, and all FWD cars. Different trip. Except for radial tires and decreased compression, it is bone stock. I made the Harley/Hyabusa comparison because people ride Harley's for the same reason they drive vintage GTO's. Primitive and Bad A$$. Visceral. You can FEEL the power of the beast. A lot of you guys prefer better brakes, better suspension, and updated drivetrains. A lot of guys like the ungodly power and silky smoothness of a Japanese rocket bike. It's sophisticated and Bad A$$. That's OK, too. It's all part of the car hobby. What it boils down to is what you do to your car (or don't do to it) to get the most enjoyment out of it. That's what counts!


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

and when you pop the hood and they see this try not to laugh at their facial expression


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

LS2 MN6 said:


> GM has a new engine line called the E-Rod. The LS3 is available and it comes with everything you need to put the LS3 in a classic car (short of the various mounts). They are turnkey engines.
> 
> GM Performance Parts | E-ROD LS3 | The Future of Hot Rod Performance


I will definitely look in to the E-Rod LS3. Thanks for the lead. My thought was to get a salvaged GTO and pull the engine, tranny and maybe the seats to put in a '67. I've got to get three other projects finished first and sell a couple other things, but the '67 GTO is my all time favorite classic car.


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> Mikesan, I have to ask, how many miles have you driven/ridden in a vintage GTO? The reason I ask is that it seems that the people who want to do the most extensive mods and install modern powertrains are the people who've never really spent much if any time behind the wheel of a '64-'74 GTO. No offense is intended...I'm just curious. But now I'm wondering how slick a Hyabusa motor would look in a '53 Harley...........Thanks........
> Jeff


Haven't driven a mile in one. No offense taken at all.


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## Mikesan (Apr 2, 2011)

likethat said:


> Let me say first. That it is a cool mod, and the coolest one is the Solstice Mallett Cars V8 Solstice Conversion
> 
> So here it is in a nut shell. I have had a 99 LS sts turbo RA Trans Am Dyno tuned, a 01 z06 cam'ed LS7 intake chipped, several 455 Olds. I have a 67 Camaro 560+ hp 427, a 78 400 W72 ws6 S.E. Trans Am, a 88 L98 GTA Trans Am, a 89 L98 Trans Am 30th anniversary GTA, and a 08 Hayabusa. Just to name a few things to get my speed addiction fix. Plus I have had friends with many 60, 70, 80, 90, 00 and on muscle cars. The bottom line, HP is HP. 400hp LSX motors are no more powerful then 400 HP old school Pontiac or 427 Chevy, or what ever. So it comes down to a conversation peace.
> 
> ...


I'm not a mechanic and don't have the skills or tools needed to do this. My hat is off to those to who can. I'm good at three things, cleaning the chrome and stainless with 0000 steel wool, acquiring parts, and writing checks! I currently have three project cars being restored. One at one shop and two at another. First is a '64 Riviera that has been in my wife's family since day one. It's getting everything done. Same for a '68 Mustang, and the "easy' project is a '65 T-bird getting all new interior, paint and body, pulled painted and cleaned motor with new belts, hoses, tune up, etc. Was hoping to flip the T-bird for a few bucks, to help fund the other two a little bit, but am probably upside down on it already. Anyway, back to the GTO, I have had an 04, an 05 and now have an 06 and would love to match it with a 67 with the LS2. That was the idea of the project.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Used LS engines and more


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