# HP tune question



## GTO629 (May 12, 2010)

Hey guys. I'm a new member to this site. I own a 2005 GTO and had some questions regarding HP Tuning.

I'm about to have Kooks LT headers installed and wanted to get it tuned after. The shop I talked to says its $500 for the tune. $150 for the licsense and $350 for the tune. I'm wondering if this is a reasonable price since ive never had this done before. They also said I could get the interface installed so i could hook up to it with my laptop for $650. 

I know enough about cars but not much about tuning. I have a computer background so im not worried about that part. Is it difficult to use if i got the interface and what kind of things could I do/tweak with it (besides things like check engine light, traction control). 

I apologize if this question has been posted in the past and thank you for any responces.


----------



## B-ville Goat (Oct 5, 2008)

For about the same $$ as their tune you can buy HP tuners for yourself. That is if you know what to do with it. I do not, so I pay for a tune. $500 is about average for a tune from what I have seen.


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Tune run arround $500 or so. HP Tuners software is $650 for the Pro version that can data log without having to use your laptop all the time. You will need a wideband O2 (I have an LC1) to tune for full throttle and they run arround $200 too.

HP Tuners has a ton of stuff on it and can be very overwhelming. I still barely know how to use it to be honest but it is fun to do. Plus my g/f is about to by a HHR SS and they are cake to tune, you just put in an AFR you want and a max boost and the ECU calibrates the VE tables and everything on its own. So nice. I just gotta adjust max boost in each gear because I'm been told once I turn it up first and second will just spin, but once tuned it should hit mid 13s easy. Auto also has launch control that works great!.

Check out HPTuners forum. There is a ton of info there as well as LS1tech about tuning.

If I were to do it again, I would only get HP Tuners if you plan on alot of mods or need to tune multiple cars, if you want simple bolts it might be best to let someone tune, retunes are usually discounted alot at the shops anyways.


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I did the same thing, and it has a steep learning curve, but if you're interested in it go over to the HP tuners board and get a feel for the different parameters you change for a tune. Most of my tuning in the beginning was trial and error, but now I'm _slightly_ more educated and know a little more what to change and why. :lol: A wideband is a must, otherwise you might as well not bother.

But don't let anyone tell you "you're gonna blow up your motor". You want to get rid of that demon knock first and foremost. My stock tune showed it in spades on 6->4 downshifts on the freeway. If you're learning on an N/A car they're pretty forgiving. I've had "bad tunes" (sluggish, horrible gas mileage), but as long as you're not running super lean or getting lots of knock retard above 2-3 degrees, you're not going to break anything.


----------



## GTO629 (May 12, 2010)

Thank you for the responses. I was also looking at a predator tuner on MarylandSpeed. Is hp tune a lot better?


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Nothing beats a custom street tune. Not even a dyno tune.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

HPT is way beyond a Predator in tuning ability and the quality of a tune. Everyone of us was a "first time" tuner and if you just read a little bit it really isn't that hard to do with a wideband O2 controller. It's about $850 for the set up of HPT Pro and an Innovate LC-1 wideband but then you're set for anything in the future and after a very short while you'll probably have a better tune than you could get from 98% of the "tuners" out there


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Agreed. If you're gonna do HPT, I'll tell you this, Histograms in the scanner are your friend. And logging the _correct_ PIDs (sensor outputs) is essential.

I'd be happy to give pointers if you're getting into it. I also have a 30 page guide that shows you essentially how to tune an LS2, what to look at when logging, etc.


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> Agreed. If you're gonna do HPT, I'll tell you this, Histograms in the scanner are your friend. And logging the _correct_ PIDs (sensor outputs) is essential.
> 
> I'd be happy to give pointers if you're getting into it. I also have a 30 page guide that shows you essentially how to tune an LS2, what to look at when logging, etc.


Feel free to email that to me. [email protected] I know I don't have an LS2, but it would still probally teach me a thing or 2. I really haven't put much time into mine yet.


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

jpalamar said:


> Feel free to email that to me. [email protected] I know I don't have an LS2, but it would still probally teach me a thing or 2. I really haven't put much time into mine yet.


Email sent. :cheers

The big thing is forcing it into Open Loop to log "proper" data for VE tuning or MAF calibrating. And at the same time shutting off Lean Cruise, Cat Overtemp, Clutch Fuel Cutoff, and Deceleration Fuel Cutoff to get more accurate readings in your histograms. At least on an LS2.

Then you use the AFR error histograms (either Hi & Lo MAF Hz or VE AFR) and take the average numbers they generate in the cells and multiply the respective cells in the editor tables as a percent or half-percent. Then, wash, rinse, repeat. Sounds cliche, but I've got it damn near dead nuts by the 3rd round. Seems to be working good so far, but I have not done the speed density half of it, I'm waiting for ambient temperature/atmospheric pressure/humidity to meet the same conditions as when I did my MAF tune, which God willing, looks like this Saturday & Sunday.:cool


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Just got it. Thanks man. I'll take a look at it this week. G/s car is being dropped up this week so her car is going to be first LOL


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I swear my car ran better just by forcing it into Open Loop... I think my "simulated" O2 signal might be screwing up the AFRs in stock form, because it doesn't switch as fast as the bank 1 sensor. What I did was install my LC-1 on the passenger side in place of the factory O2, splicing in Analog 1 to the factory O2 pigtail. I have Analog 2 set to sample at 1/12 and Analog 1 set at 1/6th like they're supposed to be.

For now I'm running MAF only in forced Open Loop until I can get my VE table squared away. The speed density half of it is a PITA, not because it's confusing, but it's **** hard to hit all of the cells in the histogram more than once or twice (or at all). So far it runs like a top, and the power delivery is a lot smoother (motor doesn't seem as rough) under heavy load or WOT, and my instant fuel shows 32-35MPG cruising at 55 in 6th on a level surface.

I hope the guide works for those who got/want it. I did a bit of tail chasing myself and decided I wanted to quit screwing around and actually get out and enjoy my car for once this season, rather than spending it staring at a laptop and scratching my head. :lol:


----------



## GTO629 (May 12, 2010)

So I called a local place and got some prices but they seem a bit steep. For the HP Tuner Interface, Innovate LC-1 wideband and intall of them both it's $1,300. They also said I have a choice between the red or blue package for the wideband. Which is a better choice?


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Screw that, I got my setup (HPT Pro & LC-1 wideband) from Hinson Supercars for $788 shipped. Install really isn't that hard.


----------



## GTO629 (May 12, 2010)

Thought so.. I'll probably just install myself if it isn't that hard. They wanted to charge me almost $900 for the parts and another $400 to install


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

If you can change a spark plug you can do an O2 sensor, though you will need an O2 sensor wrench and possibly a propane/MAPP torch. You can have a separate bung installed solely for your wideband, or you can pull one of the pre-cat sensors and put it there, with a little black magic. I was forced to pull a factory pre-cat O2 sensor because nobody was willing to install a bung on my stock exhaust system.


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

A lot of people have been asking about it, so here is the link to the tuning guide.

Read the instructions in the first post.

LS2 Tuning Guide - HP Tuners Bulletin Board


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> If you can change a spark plug you can do an O2 sensor, though you will need an O2 sensor wrench and possibly a propane/MAPP torch. You can have a separate bung installed solely for your wideband, or you can pull one of the pre-cat sensors and put it there, with a little black magic. I was forced to pull a factory pre-cat O2 sensor because nobody was willing to install a bung on my stock exhaust system.


If you are going to only use the WBO2 for tuning I would just remove the stock O2 and replcae it with the WB. Then of course once complete remove it and put the stocker back in place.

If you are going to perma it, then def have a bung put in my a shop. They should know what angle/ect to put it.


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

In my case I'd have to purchase a new O2 sensor since I snipped the pigtail off the one I took out.

I think I'm just going to leave it in open loop for now, not referencing the sensors. Like I said I think the simulated narrowband signal from the LC-1 is what's making my AFRs so cyclic in closed loop mode because the O2 mV switching isn't in sync from bank to bank. Or I need it set to a sample rate the LC-1 doesn't support. :confused It would work a lot better if I had a set of LTs with an extra bung in it for a wideband.

I'm still not done tuning  but if do OLSD for now I won't have to worry about it.


----------



## pontiacbuff (Sep 5, 2010)

Good luck to you man!!!


----------



## bigbang70 (Sep 27, 2010)

Is 02 wideband really important to have or can you do the hp tune without it???


----------



## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

It can be done, but I wouldn't bother because the result is going to be sucky.


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

bigbang70 said:


> Is 02 wideband really important to have or can you do the hp tune without it???


Think of it this way, you can run NO2 without all the proper equiment, but with very high risks.


----------

