# 67 gto convertible help



## Travis67 (24 d ago)

I need help understanding the cawl tag.. I'm going to buy this car tomorrow so any information that you guys can give will be greatly appreciated.. thanks


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

According to....

GM Body Tag Decoding : Drivin' It Home (drivinithome.com) 

And...

1967 Pontiac Body Plate Data (tpocr.com) 

01B - The car was built the second week of January.
67-24267 - Built for the 67 model year. 2 door GTO Convertible.
BF - Made in Fremont, CA .
224 - Parchment Vinyl Upholstery.

The "M" seems to imply Plum Mist for the body color...I'm not sure about the "1" that follows it.

The lower two numbers could be accessory codes, but I'm not too confident decoding those at this time. I'll leave that to the more experienced.

Take a good look underneath it, it has some signs of an incomplete restoration, in my opinion (maybe a under hood/interior freshen up and paint job). What's visible in your photos looks real nice, but the fact that the firewall seam is not been cleaned up and resealed & the data tag is not painted makes me think that it was done in a quicker fashion than I'd take to "redo it all". Of course, the price needs to reflect the level in which they got where they did.

It's a real nice-looking car!!! Welcome to the forums, you've come to the right place.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I should have mentioned that the "224" would indicate it was a bench seat originally. It's worth your time to check some other sites with respect to decoding the tag as I have found some of them to contradict each other. And getting the PHS documents from...

PHS Historic Services (phs-online.com) 

Is a worth while purchase.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Thank you so much for the quick response. The guy is asking 38,500 and I just wanted a conformation that I was getting a good deal.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Sick467 said:


> I should have mentioned that the "224" would indicate it was a bench seat originally...


I would debate that 224 was the code for bucket seat Parchment interior. A 226 would be a bench seat Parchment interior. Here's the data plate for my original Plum Mist GTO with buckets and parchment interior.









Agree that original color was Plum Mist. I can't say anything bad about that because I changed a Plum Mist hardtop MM to a Regimental Red R2, and still don't regret it. I really tried to stay true to the color but hated it. I was on the line on changing until we pulled the rocker panels off and got a look at what the color was before it faded out -- that really convinced me to make the change. Even today if I had to stay with the color I'd fudge the mix and push it more towards a burgundy shade. Also the "1" was for black top and no distinction was made between a black convertible top, black vinyl top, or a painted black top. A "2" would be for a white top.

Hard to argue with the price for a 4-speed convertible with A/C. The pictures look great.


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## GTOJUNIOR (Aug 7, 2011)

The way they have the paint "Cake Glazed" concerns me,
I would want to get that up on a lift for a more thorough look.


Caveat Emptor!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Sick467 said:


> What's visible in your photos looks real nice, but the fact that the firewall seam is not been cleaned up and resealed & the data tag is not painted makes me think that it was done in a quicker fashion than I'd take to "redo it all". Of course, the price needs to reflect the level in which they got where they did.


I agree. The car has definitely had a lot of money thrown at it, but it wasnt "restored". As my buddy mentioned, so long as the price doesnt reflect a full resto, then it's a sweet ride! Pretty rare, too. Factory AC, Muncie, Vert!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Travis67 said:


> Thank you so much for the quick response. The guy is asking 38,500 and I just wanted a conformation that I was getting a good deal.
> View attachment 160031


$38,500 is a great price for *any* clean 67 GTO, the muncie, vert, and AC, add a good $15,000 to the value. So long as the car isnt a bondo raider, you're good!

IMO, at that price, you could buy it and put $12,000 into it the next day, and still have way less invested than the value.

Plus, everyone knows that 67's are the best.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Thank all of you for the speedy response. The car is about 3 hours from me ill be posting pictures as soon as I get it.. is there anything in particular that I should be looking for during my inspection.. Thanks


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Travis67 said:


> Thank all of you for the speedy response. The car is about 3 hours from me ill be posting pictures as soon as I get it.. is there anything in particular that I should be looking for during my inspection.. Thanks


Just look underneath, very well. Fresh paint and overspray, on the undercarriage, are about the biggest giveaways that someone is trying to "flip" a car


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Look on the trunk floor and inside of the quarter panels, and look underneath at the floor... Look for welding seams! These are tell-tale signs that the car was allowed to rust out (from the East coast), and then repaired.

But, if it was repaired right, then it's no worry.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Travis67 said:


> Thank all of you for the speedy response. The car is about 3 hours from me ill be posting pictures as soon as I get it.. is there anything in particular that I should be looking for during my inspection.. Thanks


Frame rot - rust pits are not too big of a deal here and there, but holes and cracks will be costly to fix. Look real close around where suspensions parts are attached and body mounts. Those connections are very important to be structurally sound.

Body mounts - dry brittle rubbers mean they are old and need replaced. This is not too big of a job unless the body sheet metal around those areas is rusted out. Then it means the body has to be lifted up much higher and maybe completely off. 2 out of the numerous body mount bolts on my 67 were so seized that they broke upon removal and holes had to be cut in the trunk and cab floors to repair the captured nuts.

The area were the front fender meets the rocker, just to the inward side of the rocker, is a common place for 67's to rot out. Water leaks in from the windshield, down behind the kick panel, rots through the floor and eats at this place from above...not to mention the kick-up from the front tires eating at it from the outside. Not a hard fix, but not a lot of fun with the body on the frame.

The lower rear quarters on these cars take a lot of abuse due to the fish-tailing they are know for and the things they hit. Look for signs of excess putty in these areas. One of mine had about 1/2" of putty to make it look right along the lower body line.

The rear glass recesses are known to rot out and leak that tends to cause the trunk floor to rust out just above the body mounts.

The rear taillights are also known to leak that causes the lower section of tail panel and rearward section of the trunk floor to rust out. This will be hard to inspect due to the taillight buckets being in the way. Take a good flashlight and mirror.

As @armyadarkness said, the condition of the underbelly will tell how much effort was put into the "restoration" of the car. Look for rust scale that's been painted over. Look for sheet metal patches that have been tacked on and sealed over. A good underbody sheet metal patch would be nearly impossible to locate on a quality repair. Look for areas that a spray gun would have missed. A quick spray of the underbelly makes it look alot better until a year or so later when the lack of prep allows the paint to start peeling off or rusting back through.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Ok thanks.. I'm on the way to get her and I'll post picks as soon as I get home.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

_ok guys I'm at the car the engine code is 373277 xh.. can someone please tell me what this engine is.. Thanks_


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

273277 xh


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

You shouldve just ordered the PHS documents, ahead of time. DOes he have them?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

If so, the front passenger block has the engine code, which will match the original bill of sale, in the PHS, if the engine is original. Otherwise, you need to get the number off the top of the block, by the dizzy


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## Drewm (Jul 27, 2021)

XH was used by Pontiac for many years. Could be any number of engines. Need some other casting numbers and date codes to pinpoint.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

I bought the car guys.. Thanks for all the help.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Only patch that I found is in the rear quarter driver side. The floors are completely solid with no patches and no rust at all.. I'm extremely happy and I feel like I got a steel of a deal..


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

That's great news! Looking forward to seeing and hearing all about it


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Welcome to the elite!


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The 273277 is the Engine Unit Number or EUN. 

XH is a 350 HP 400 Grand Prix engine from 67-through 70.
or low compression 400s from 73-77


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

I bet the excitement is killing you. Congrats on the buy/steal! As @armyadarkness has already said...

"everyone knows that 67's are the best. " 

Do a net search for....

"Pontiac 400 engine identification"

And, do a bit of reading and searching for the numbers on you block, heads, & intake...just to get started. Get back with the forums and we'll pick the numbers apart and find out what you have.

Hagerty has some great info here...

How to identify Pontiac engine blocks - Hagerty Media 

Butler Performance, a trusted name, has good info here...



https://butlerperformance.com/n-13496-pontiac-block-casting-information.html



That will get you started, but it can take several sites to really narrow the numbers down, depending on how deep you get.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Travis67 said:


> I need help understanding the cawl tag.. I'm going to buy this car tomorrow so any information that you guys can give will be greatly appreciated.. thanks
> View attachment 160029
> 
> View attachment 160028
> ...


The shift ball thingy is a very good sign 😛
Looks like I am late to the party but comment still applies.
Red and black looks killer 👍


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

armyadarkness said:


> You shouldve just ordered the PHS documents, ahead of time. DOes he have them?


No phs and I didn't have time a guy offered him 46,500 to not sale it to me.. The guy held to his word that he wouldn't take a offer until I had a look.. very good guy


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Hagerty article has several errors in it with a light sprinkling of factual information. They were fine saying that the EUN was a consecutive running number, but then started rambling. This following Hagerty section is false for the 1967 model year:
Above the code is the block unit number, and the common line of thought is that this number matches the last six digits of the VIN, as with other GM applications. However, when it comes to Pontiac, this is simply the engine sequential number, generally referred to in service bulletins for updates in production. (The VIN is located on the passenger’s side front of the block, down where the timing cover and the oil pan meet.) From 1955 until early 1967, the block unit number represented the last digits of the VIN of the vehicle that the motor was originally installed in. Late in 1967, the number 2 was added at the beginning to represent Pontiac, followed by a digit that indicated the last number of the model year (such as “9” for 1969) and a letter that represented the originating assembly plant. These digits were followed by the last 6 digits of the VIN.

'67 Pontiac engines still had the PCV valve location at the rear of the valley pan and I'm not sure about the 68's. By '69 it moved to the front.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

PCV moved to the front in 68 Mick.

Interesting read about the EUN. Too bad they didn't do more research.

EUN (Engine Unit Number) is basically the blocks serial number. Sequentially stamped during the build up at the Pontiac engine plant.
Not only used for maintenance updates, but also for recalls and prior to 68, warranty work.

Wallace Racing website has an incomplete list of EUNs to vehicles and years. The EUN would start off at 100001 at the beginning of the production year, so it can be a guide to the approximate time the engine was built when compared to other EUNs built during there same time period. The date at the rear of the block is the date of forging. Usually the build date would be within 2-3 days of the forging. But can also be as late as 4-6 months after forging for special engines. My ordinary WT block was built 30 days after forging which I think was due to a chip at the top deck of the cylinder bore. You could see a factory repair when the engine was disassembled for the first time.

VIN was stamped at the assembly plant. It would have been impossible to know what car the engine was going into at the Pontiac engine plant so the EUN never had anything to do with the VIN


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Made it home with the car.. note the blower motor doesn't work , ac not working , it was raining on the way home found a leak in the trunk and the top of the driver side front windshield.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)




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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Had to put the Monte outside.. but just for the night.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Travis67 said:


> the blower motor doesn't work , ac not working , it was raining on the way home found a leak in the trunk and the top of the driver side front windshield.


WELCOME TO CLASSIC CAR OWNERSHIP!


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Kudos on the Pontiac buy from another Cheby truck owner (72 C10 LWB) and I always loved the Monte's!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

You scored. You could not even come close to that car for what you paid. Well done. Shame a Plum Mist car was changed to Resale Red! And a parchment interior.

The Goodyear Eagle ST is an excellent tire, but has not been made in this century. Time for new rubber.


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Thanks man. I also have a 58 impala but something has to go I only have room for 3.. I'm keeping the gto for sure.


geeteeohguy said:


> You scored. You could not even come close to that car for what you paid. Well done. Shame a Plum Mist car was changed to Resale Red! And a parchment interior.
> 
> The Goodyear Eagle ST is an excellent tire, but has not been made in this century. Time for new rubber.





geeteeohguy said:


> You scored. You could not even come close to that car for what you paid. Well done. Shame a Plum Mist car was changed to Resale Red! And a parchment interior.
> 
> The Goodyear Eagle ST is an excellent tire, but has not been made in this century. Time for new rubber.


Hopefully some time in the next year or so I'll be able to change it back to the original color combo.. I'm thinking about putting some BFG red line tires on it..


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## Travis67 (24 d ago)




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## Travis67 (24 d ago)

Travis67 said:


> View attachment 160104
> 
> View attachment 160103
> 
> View attachment 160105


This is what my car looked like from the factory


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## Frenky_dude (24 d ago)

I would debate that 224 was the code for bucket seat Parchment interior. A 226 would be a bench seat Parchment interior.


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## Frenky_dude (24 d ago)

I would debate that 224 was the code for bucket seat Parchment interior. A 226 would be a bench seat Parchment interior.


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## Frenky_dude (24 d ago)

I would debate that 224 was the code for bucket seat Parchment interior. A 226 would be a bench seat Parchment interior.


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## Frenky_dude (24 d ago)

I would debate that 224 was the code for bucket seat Parchment interior. A 226 would be a bench seat Parchment interior.


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