# Buying a Pontiac 400



## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey guys I am looking for a couple opinions on here. I am looking for a Pontiac 400 to put in my 69 GTO and I was doing a bit of searching and I found this on ebay.

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Now the guy has great feedback and all but how can this be so cheap? For me to get that where I live it would be 10+ grand.

I did a good search of the guy and the only thing I found was in a forum where a guy had a problem with a faulty gasket and a some water left in the oil galley, which just required a gasket change and a few oil changes.

Any opinions out there on whether this is legit?

Scott


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Hi Scott,
I've got no direct experience or even second-hand knowledge of this vendor. Trying to glean the facts from all the hyperbole in his Ebay listing is hard, but I do see some good things in there, like some of the parts he uses. I also see some things I question - like the claim of 420 HP and 550 lb. ft. of torque. That's a lot of torque for a motor that "only" makes 420 HP. 

Give Jim Lehart at Central Virginia Machine a call and talk to him. I trust him and his work. Central Virginia Machine Service - Home of the ***** Engine!

Bear


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## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Description says MAHLE forged pistons. But the pistons in the picture are sealed power. Their logo is right there in top of the piston!


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Seems impossibly cheap to me....but I live in N.Y. Eric :cheers


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

Bear and Eric I completely agree with you guys. I emailed him about a dyno and this is what he replied.

Dear bigalsworth,

I only supply NEW BUILT, never run engines, shipped without oil! Shipping companies require no oil spills, and charge a HUGE enviormential clean-up fee, if any leak is present, so NO OIL!!!!!! I do not build racing engines, and the power rating was the product of a single 461 stroker, built to these exact specs and dynoed. TORQUE is TREMENDOUS, and will easily blow the tires away for city blocks, or cruise all night without overheating. GREAT street engine, with daily driver manners, and decent fuel economy.
Thanks for your inquiry. I see you are in Canada, please provide postal code, for accurate shipping cost. HERB (281-546-6232)

- 1951herb

I have just sent him another message out right asking him how he is selling it so cheap because it just does not make sense. The eagle rotating assembly is 2 grand alone is it not?

Eric, I saw your engine on the ads and I would love to buy that off you but I just don't have that kind of cash. If I end up getting sketched out by this guy on ebay and you give me a year to save up I will buy yours off ya.

Scott


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Seems too cheap to me, too, but the gent has a 100% rating, and does indeed list all the right stuff. Also, his responses to inquiries seems to be sincere, accurate and not BS....he seems to know Pontiac traits that are pretty much brand-specific. The 420/550 seems like a bit of a mis-match to me, too....should be more HP and a bit less Tq. For that price, it sure is tempting!!!!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I wrote and asked him a question, and have a follow up planned depending on what he says. If it sets off alarms I'll let you know. 

Also it's very hard to tell from the photo, but it almost looks like I'm seeing a "455" on the side of the block in that same picture, the one with the obvious Sealed Power logo on the piston tops.

Could be though that he builds lots of Pontiacs and just used photos he had on hand.

Bear


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## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> I wrote and asked him a question, and have a follow up planned depending on what he says. If it sets off alarms I'll let you know.
> 
> Also it's very hard to tell from the photo, but it almost looks like I'm seeing a "455" on the side of the block in that same picture, the one with the obvious Sealed Power logo on the piston tops.
> 
> ...


Thats what I figured. Also reading his responses. I think he is advertising his HP/TQ numbers from a 461 that he dynoed. And just advertises all his 400's at that number??????


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Without any commentary on my part, draw your own conclusions...

First I wrote and asked, _"Are all the photos in your ad from one of your actual engines?"_
Response: _"Yep, I shoot a few photos to post on my Ebay listings, they were all built in my little shop! I build 4 motors a week, and never catch up, that's all I want to build, and plan to keep quality the best. I paint each engine the color each customer specifies, and can even shoot the customers special color, if a pint of paint is provided.
Thanks for your inquiry. "_

So I wrote back: _"Ok - well, I asked because your ad says you use Mahle pistons, but the ones visible in that block very obviously have the Sealed Power logo on them."_
And the reply was: _"That photo was of a 455 engine, with SpeedPro forged pistons, but the 461 uses an EAGLE rotating assembly. This includes Mahle forged flatop pistons- 6.800" H-beam rods- and cast steel 4.25" stroke internal balance crank. Good catch, you have a good eye for detail, the photos mainly represent the way the engine will look. 
Thanks again"_

Bear


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Without any commentary on my part, draw your own conclusions...
> 
> First I wrote and asked, _"Are all the photos in your ad from one of your actual engines?"_
> Response: _"Yep, I shoot a few photos to post on my Ebay listings, they were all built in my little shop! I build 4 motors a week, and never catch up, that's all I want to build, and plan to keep quality the best. I paint each engine the color each customer specifies, and can even shoot the customers special color, if a pint of paint is provided.
> ...


LOL Thanks for looking into it Bear and e-mailing him. Hard for me to tell because yeah those pics could be of one of his engines, just not the particular one he is building.

I'm tempted to try it out just because he does have an excellent rating and it seems to be high enough that he couldn't fake all of those (if you even can fake your rating). I am going to read through the ebay buyer protection plan and see what I can get out of that. After I get the engine I can have a few buddies who know way more about them than I do to look at it and see if there is something that stands out or anything I can find that gives cause to file a complaint/return through ebay.

I might also call the guy that you recommended Bear and see what kind of a price I can get through him. If he can get my something that I am looking for in the 6-8 grand range I might just go through him which would probably be much less stressful.


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

The ebay lister replied to my question about how he has an engine so cheap and the reply was what I was expecting.

"I make some money off it but I don't bend my customers over a barrel" kind of answer. It still does not make any sense to me. I'm sure that rotating assembly alone is $2000 bucks. How can he finish it off for only another $1700 and make any money off of it.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

TBH I don't rape people either and probably would be cheaper then that (if I had an endless supply of cores). His feedback looks great. Maybe e-mail some of the people he's sold to and see if they are still satisfied.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Bigalsworth said:


> I might also call the guy that you recommended Bear and see what kind of a price I can get through him. If he can get my something that I am looking for in the 6-8 grand range I might just go through him which would probably be much less stressful.


It wouldn't hurt to call him and just talk about it. I can promise you that he'll give you factual information and won't try to put any sort of hard sell (or sell at all, actually) on you. He also won't be offended if you decide to spend your money elsewhere.

That was what impressed me so much about him the first time I spoke with him: the amount of information he was willing to share, and how much he was willing to go into the reasoning behind his recommendations, without expecting anything in return from me.

Bear


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

He also puts questions asked/answered on his listing as well.

Man If I had cash in hand I'd go for it. Specially since its in Texas and I could go pick it up and save on shipping! 

Seems legit to me. Thing about ebay is if its not legit, you're almost garunteed to be insured. Ebay will lay down the law on those who do otherwise.


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

you guys have been a huge help, I appreciate it. I'm going to pull the trigger on it.

Scott


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

My buddy charges $500 to build a motor, so if this guy builds 4 engines a week at $500, that's $2k a week, or $104K a year, so a good business. Yep, just checked him out, I am interested for myself. That's some nice stuff he's using, except the chinese intake and distributor, but usable. Stroker kit is real nice. The 383 stroker SBC comes with aluminum heads, 60 more HP, roller rockers for the same money, 60 ft lbs less torque.. Damn Chevy's.


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

Just bought it. 4200 bucks including shipping to Canada. Really nice guy on the phone. I will update this in the future when I get and it spark it up for future engine buyers.

Thanks for all the help fellas


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## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Congrats on you buy. Install it and put the car on a dyno and tell us what it does.


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

OrbitOrange said:


> Congrats on you buy. Install it and put the car on a dyno and tell us what it does.


Thanks, and I will. It will probably be a year or so before that happens tho.


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## OrbitOrange (Jul 5, 2010)

Did you get a 400 or 461 and what heads are on it?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Money well spent. Congrats! I want one, sounds like a healthy build with strong bottom end parts. Love it!


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## jasonblair (Nov 22, 2004)

I know this thread is a year old, but what's the update on this? We saw that you bought the motor, but how did it go? Is it running strong? Were there issues of any kind? Is 1951herb a dream come true, or did this turn into a nightmare?


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't have the engine in the car yet, kinda put the car on the back burner while I do house reno's and yard landscaping. I expect to have it running by Jan/Feb 2014. I am also very curious myself to see how this thing runs, just don't have the coin available at the moment to get'r done.

I will update this post when it does happen though.

Scott


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## jasonblair (Nov 22, 2004)

In the meantime, here are some stories I've been able to dig up about him:

WTH. I got screwed. - Chevelle Tech
what can I do to my motor?
Where to find good long blocks - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board
Rebuilt engine has arrived!!
Engine Rebuild | Antiquechevytrucks.com

Some sound like good reviews, some sound awful... But I'm sure there are always complainers.


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah I think I found those also when I did a search for him before I bought. I find it hard pressed to find completely glowing reviews on anything on the internet, so I figured with his ebay rating/reviews and the cost of that engine being peanuts compared to how much I've had to put into this car, I rolled the dice. 

If it works out that would be awesome, but if not then I can chalk it up to just one more thing that ended up costing more during this restoration lol.

Scott


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## ericring (Feb 20, 2014)

Here we are in Feb of 14 and I'm considering a motor from Herb. Are you up and running?

Thanks,
Eric


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## Oldeboy (Sep 17, 2012)

Hope you have been able to get back to the car. Do you have an update?


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## Bigalsworth (Nov 22, 2011)

hey Eric, I have not put it in the car yet. The car has been on the back burner for a long time due to life getting in the way lol. 

A friend of mine and I were just talking about building an engine stand where we could run it up, and also run a couple engines he has as well. I have gotten oil in it and turned it over to pump it through the system and it got compression and never had any weird noises or leaks. 

I was expecting to have this thing up and running a long time ago for the fact that I wanted to update this thread and get some more good/bad reviews about him out there for peoples future dealings with him.

Sorry I don't have any more info for ya

Scott


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## RexInTheCity (Jul 17, 2015)

I hate to bring back a dead post but I'm curious if you ever got the engine running.


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## Doug68gto (Mar 8, 2016)

Did he really buy the motor? Sit on motor four years and any problems are on you. I hope both seller and buyer are honest with us but I think this thread has been a waste of some good Pontiac guys time. JMO doug


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