# Service Replacement Engine 1967



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

There have been questions on the forum about Service Replacement engines or blocks. I don't think I have ever seen any photos posted of one in any of the conversations. So I think I have some.

About 20 or so years ago my brother had a 1967 GTO with the economy 400CI 2 Bbl engine and 2-speed automatic. I was in my local junk yard and saw this engine in a mid 1980's Monte Carlo. The "670" heads indicated a 1967 GTO engine, or so I thought. I think I paid $75 for it, short block, heads, exhaust manifolds, pulleys, and power steering pump & brackets (my brother has since picked up a correct '67 intake). I delivered it to him in Florida. He never used it as he sold the GTO. I thought he had sold the engine with the car, but he still had it, so I got some pics. I recalled it had no engine code like the past posts here on Service Replacement blocks/engines.

Pic#1 is of the stamped letter "P" which I assume is for "Pontiac." You can see its orientation on the front of the pad where normally the 2-letter engine code can be found.
Pic#2 is the cast date code near the distributor. G037 = July 3, 1967.
Pic#3 is the block casting number. 9786133 was used on all 1967 blocks; A, B, & F-bodies and all engine types from 2 bbl to Ram Air.
Pic#4 is the "670" cast on the center exhaust ID'ing the heads as the 1967 hi-performance head.
Pic#5 is the cast date code. K276 = November 27, 1966 is on one head and K286 is found on the other head, so these are matched heads.

This engine could be a Service Replacement short block seeing the heads are dated November 1966 and the block July 1967(keep in mind that the 1968 model year begins in August). It is possible the engine was an over-the-counter crate engine sold to someone, but I would think the head/block casting dates would be closer together. The fact that the heads are 1967 and the short block is 1967 would seem to me to rule out that someone put the combination together.

What would really help ID the engine further would be the stamped code on the front of the cam assuming it to be original. This might narrow down the engine HP rating/transmission type and match it to a possible body it came out of. I can probably get him to do that and post the letter code with these pics. :thumbsup:


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## Shake-N-Bake (Jun 16, 2015)

Are there any stamping on the right face of the block down near the oil pan? SR8xxxx is what you might find.
A service replacement block would ship with pistons, cam bearings and freeze plugs. The original crank, rods, cam etc would be repurposed from the original engine. If any of those parts were damaged then replacement components would be purchased separately as needed. So an SR block would not ship with a camshaft installed.

Is there a stamp on the cast boss next to the center ports near the 670 casting? No stamp could be 400 GP or 428 base heads, "O" stamp could be automatic A and F body, "Z" could be manual transmission A or F body and "X" appears to designate ram air applications.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Shake-N-Bake said:


> Are there any stamping on the right face of the block down near the oil pan? SR8xxxx is what you might find.
> A service replacement block would ship with pistons, cam bearings and freeze plugs. The original crank, rods, cam etc would be repurposed from the original engine. If any of those parts were damaged then replacement components would be purchased separately as needed. So an SR block would not ship with a camshaft installed.
> 
> Is there a stamp on the cast boss next to the center ports near the 670 casting? No stamp could be 400 GP or 428 base heads, "O" stamp could be automatic A and F body, "Z" could be manual transmission A or F body and "X" appears to designate ram air applications.



Nothing on the right side of the block face other than the "P" stamping. If you mean the "right side" when looking at the engine where the PS pump is, have not looked? My brother said he had talked with several other Pontiac sources over the years and they all seem to point to a Service Replacement block.

This engine has the block casting code #9786133 on the right side, back of block on the ledge behind #8 cyl. I have a photo in a book with the same casting number and IDing the block as a 1967 block cast Dec. 1966 but the block casting number is found in the area where the distributor goes and where the date casting is found. So, two different foundries maybe casting the blocks or a casting change?

No stampings on the 2 cast pads on the center exhaust ports on either sides just above the "670" if these are the pads you are referring to? Have never seen a 670 head having these stampings and checked several books/pics I have and nowhere has this been shown or pointed out. Only found that early 1967 GP's had casting #9787671 on the A.I.R. ridge.

"So an SR block would not ship with a camshaft installed." Never say never when it comes to Pontiac, but it would make sense that it was not and the original cam/lifters used. But, that would not be known seeing no history on the engine. I would think that if it still had a factory cam swapped to the replacement block, the letter stamping would narrow down engine HP rating and thus, what possible vehicle it was found/used in.

The engine has not been torn down to examine it more closely and I don't think it'll be torn down any time soon. I might get him at some point to pull the timing cover & pan for me and take a look and see what that reveals.


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## Shake-N-Bake (Jun 16, 2015)

Very interesting. Very true about the 'never say never' idea....I have seen many examples of things that weren't supposed to happen according to common knowledge yet they happened anyway. The cast number on the right side behind #8 is quite interesting. My 67 block and every other one that I have seen had the casting number by the distributor hole. Like you mentioned earlier, 9786133 was used for Ram Air engines but only up to a certain point...then a special casting number 9792510 was released with 4 bolt mains. Those engines had the casting number on the back behind #8 . The casting date of the first 2510 block is D247 so maybe the location of the 9786133 cast number changed around that same time also? The casting date on my 67 block is H266 and it's cast number is by the distributor hole. The '97' is cut off by the gallery plug....I think that was common to all engines with the casting number in that spot. 

No clue what the "P" would be for.....maybe someone will offer some insight if they find this thread.
The SR8xxxx number is on the right side down low....or left side as you are looking at the engine. Here is a photo of a RAIV SR block 9799915 so it's intended for a 1970 RAIV application. The actual block was cast in 1973. This one still had it's part number tag on it so I think it's a good example to use for discussion.

I don't think all the 670 heads were stamped....some were blank. Not sure why, some suggest those 'blank' heads would be for large car applications but the research is still ongoing. Here is a photo of my heads....they have a 'Z' on one of the little round pads. Ignore the 96 heads in the pic....I was just comparing the center two exhaust ports between D and round port heads when I took this photo. If you don't find any stamp marks on the little round pad on your heads then that could denote large car applications. I agree, checking the cam code could yield a major clue as to the original intended use for that engine.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

OK, thanks for the pics, but something does not make sense to me. "Here is a photo of a RAIV SR block 9799915 so it's intended for a 1970 RAIV application. The actual block was cast in 1973."

A 1973 cast block, but RAIV service replacement? How long was the Pontiac warranty on their engines, did not think it was that long?

Food for thought at this point:

A Chevrolet Dealer Service Bulletin dated April 1969 stated that all service assembly engines, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases will be stamped with the first letter designating the GM division that produced the engine; C-Chevrolet, L-Oldsmobile, K-Cadillac, B-Buick, *P*-Pontiac. The second letter will be designate the type of unit, "E" engine or "T" transmission. This is followed by a digit to indicate year with the last five digits specifying the service replacement sequence number. - not the VIN number.

Note that this bulletin includes all GM makes indicating this was a GM policy for all divisions. Although the bulletin is 1969, and the below covers the 1968 year which these changes appear to have been put into practice, you will note that the designation above given the Pontiac division is "P" - which is exactly what is stamped/found on the '67 block. 

Apparently Chevrolet used the "CE" designation for replacement Chevrolet engines beginning in 1968. The "CE" block stamp year is the year the block was stamped and not for what year of car the block was destined since a generic block or fitted engine could be used as a warranty replacement for any number of years' engines, applications, and for cars produced from any assembly plant.

With this info regarding Chevrolet after 1968 & 1969, the memo indicates a replacement engine/block would use the first letter as the division, "P" for Pontiac, followed by the type of part, "E" for engine. So where did the designation "SR" come from when it appears the correct designation might be "PE" followed by a sequence number and not a VIN number?

I wonder if there exists a Pontiac Division Service Bulletin that would cover the "SR" designation and its stamping. Could clear things up. :thumbsup:


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## Shake-N-Bake (Jun 16, 2015)

I think the warranty was fairly short....about a year or so in some cases. The SR blocks we're produced for use as warranty replacements and for sale over the parts counter so their cast date could be many years after the application date.

Sounds like a good clue in that GM bulletin relating to the P stamp. Sounds like Pontiac may have come up with their own code for their engines since all the V8 Pontiac engines that I have seen are stamped SR8 followed by 4 or 5 additional number characters. As best as I can tell, the SR is for Service Replacement and the 8 is cylinder count. The remaining characters seem to be the serial number which matches the tag attached to the fittest block. 

Most all SR blocks are blank where the EUN and engine code would normally be found so it's kinda neat that yours has a P in that area. 

Can't wait to see what cam code you find in there and if the heads are stamped with anything. It has been decades since I was in the bottom end of my 67 block so I can't remember if it was drilled and tapped with 2 or 4 bolts per main cap. I am nearly certain it just had 2 bolt caps though. If I remember correctly....most all 67 blocks were drilled for 2 bolt caps so it would be interesting to see if how your block was drilled. Even more interesting if it happens to have 4 bolt caps. By the time your engine was cast....the recipe for the ram air blocks called for 4 bolt caps. Those would be 9792510 castings but your block has the casting number behind #8 just like the 2510 block so perhaps it was machined the same? Kinda fun to check when you get the time. It kinda looks like there might be an X on your heads so that is what has me thinking of the possibility of a ram air application. Long shot....but stranger things have happened...




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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Have never ran across a Pontiac 400 SR fitted block with a P stamped on it. Have pulled tons & tons & tons of core 389-455 Pontiac engines, for many years kept a major Pontiac engine builder in 400's & 6X-4 cores. Yes, have seen all kinds of numbers stamped on the face of Pontiac blocks, many from rebuilders, others from owners who had little clue what they were doing. In the 90's owned several nos fitted 4 bolt main 400 fitted blocks. also have had numerous core 400's & 455's that had previously been built off fitted SR blocks. Currently have a SR 4 bolt main 428 used short block. All have had the SR8xxxx number stamped extremely deep in large font numbers up & down on the machined surface to the passenger side of timing cover. The nos 4 bolt main fitted 400blocks, all had a purplish color inspection mark on the block face & daubed on the rear of the block casting.


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