# Road Test Random Thoughts- Suspension Upg



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

These parts:










*Front wheels: 1 deg negative camber, 1-1/2 degree positive caster.

Rear Wheels: 1 degree positive caster 

Settings- All Konis on Medium, Hotchkis bars set to center hole.*

Overall- Amazing, unbelievable. Hard to believe it's the same car. Definitely feels BMW-esqe now-- which was my goal.

Steering force required has gone up slightly. I call this a definite good thing.

The dreaded "dead zone" is gone at freeway speed. Any input, no matter how small, points the car in a new direction. There is a bit of "dartiness"-- which is why the car is sold with a less-aggressive alignment. This car must now be driven. If you cruise while talking on the cell phone- don't get this suspension!

The damping is much improved. Uneven road surfaces pass under the car with easy rapidity- no bounce, no jarring. The car is squeak-free. 

The pronounced "boatiness," made much worse by the fact that my car had over 50k miles on the OEM struts, is completely gone. Hard acceleration nets a flat, stable body attitude- same goes with hard braking. Car remains very controllable with very hard braking as well- gone is that pronounced "push" understeer felt as the stock radius bushings would deform.

Directional stability is awesome, even at speeds up to 125 mph. At these speeds, the car feels solidly planted and completely at home.

I may move the rear Hotchkis sway bar to a more aggressive stting, however- there is still a _slight_ tendency to understeer when push hard, and I prefer a car that oversteers (especially these cars, which throttle-steer so nicely). I am a little reluctant, as I do still like this setup.

I have to get to a track. This has definitely transformed my Holden into a no-sh1t M3-slayer. 

More when I think of them.


----------



## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

You double poster. HAHAHA!!!!!


Is the ride uncomfortable for long periods of time?


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

dealernut said:


> You double poster. HAHAHA!!!!!
> 
> 
> Is the ride uncomfortable for long periods of time?


Not at all.


----------



## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

That is one of my biggest gripes about this car and my old WS6. I love responsive cars that can feel a curve. Especially at high speeds. I drove a Solstice on a closed course(I know, I know a 4 cld) and I loved the "feel' of the road.


----------



## Guest (Dec 4, 2005)

that is just AWESOME! I was told that the bushing upgrade kit makes the car feel SOOO much better, and after your input, it just puts another nail in my financial coffin I am trying to prepare for when I finally get one of these.


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 6, 2005)

Finally, someone on this forum makes a change that isn't aimed at straight line performance!

I'm all excited!

Seems like these changes are pretty low cost compared to SC's or Turbos and would produce a lot more fun on a regular basis.

So, no serious negative impact to the straight line (highway) ride quality?
What about slides? Still easy to provoke and control? I don't want a tail happy car a la vette or 911.


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Wing_Nut said:


> Finally, someone on this forum makes a change that isn't aimed at straight line performance!
> 
> I'm all excited!
> 
> Seems like these changes are pretty low cost compared to SC's or Turbos and would produce a lot more fun on a regular basis.


Exactly. It's money well spent, if you find yourself wanting more control, rather than wanting to join the drag-strip knuckledraggers- I seriously think that people who ignore the European roots of this IRS-equipped chassis are missing a seriously cool boat.

That being said, the heavily-reduced pitch-up when putting the spurs to it in a straight-line is a very good thing indeed.



Wing_Nut said:


> So, no serious negative impact to the straight line (highway) ride quality?


None. Like I said, the car demands more attention now, as with the vague steering fixed the tiniest inputs steer the car-- but in my mind, that's a good thing indeed.



Wing_Nut said:


> What about slides? Still easy to provoke and control? I don't want a tail happy car a la vette or 911.


Easy to induce, also very easy to arrest and control- even on damp roads. My current set-up will kick the tail out with a well-timed jab of throttle while turning, but the nose kicks back in line with the current velocity vector when you let off on the gas. I think I would only make the rear sway shorter (stiffer) if I were autocrossing, as that should make the car a bit more "tail happy"-- but for regular canyon-carving I'd leave it as is. The cool thing about this setup is that you are left with far more options than the OEM suspension gives you.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2005)

Now, hit some on-ramps at 3x whats posted and let us know how it does.


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

big_mike said:


> Now, hit some on-ramps at 3x whats posted and let us know how it does.


That's SOP, baby.  

Another thing I've noticed: high speed stability over rough pavement. The Grapevine section of the I-5 is a pretty torn-up piece of interstate, and running over the rough stuff at 90 mph is a wonderful thing. The suspension now just eats this stuff up, where it used to wallow like a wounded orca. Now, it's almost perfectly damped without being jarring. 

As a point of reference, when the suspension was set to "Performance" the Vette bounced across this stuff like a flat stone skipping on a lake-- _most_ disconcerting.


----------



## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Total Investment $$$ :cheers Thanks for post.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2005)

Groucho said:


> That's SOP, baby.


im guessing SOP is strict organ placement, meaning everything is sloshed to the outside of your body with your driving! lol


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

big_mike said:


> im guessing SOP is strict organ placement, meaning everything is sloshed to the outside of your body with your driving! lol


Standard Operating Procedure.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2005)

sounds military-ish.

anyway, through all these mods, are you changing tire brands?


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

big_mike said:


> sounds military-ish.
> 
> anyway, through all these mods, are you changing tire brands?


Ain't nothing wrong with my Dunlop SPSport FM901s....but next I may get Goodyear F1-GSs because they look so friggin' cool.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2005)

Ahhh, I can see how cool that looks but how well will it respond to endless burnouts? lol


----------



## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

As much as I love ya' Bob, not all drag racers are knuckledraggers. Some of us still respect what these cars were "designed" to do, but, feel the need to go straight, extremely quickly. On another note, I'm very glad that you are satisfied, and, I plan on clearing some stuff up with Pedders (getting down to the wire before I'm a stocking dealer) the last thing I want to do is stock something that my customers will not be happy with. :cheers


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2005)

umm, my knuckles are all scuffed up. lol


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

GTODEALER said:


> As much as I love ya' Bob, not all drag racers are knuckledraggers. Some of us still respect what these cars were "designed" to do, but, feel the need to go straight, extremely quickly.



OK...I apologize....just a little pre-emptive strike from intel gathered on The Other Site. Over there, such brain-dead nuggets such as "If you can turn, you're not going fast enough" and other signs of severe mental retardation were bandied about by those of the more linear ilk.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2005)

goes to www.m-w.com to translate that ENTIRE post.


----------



## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

Groucho said:


> OK...I apologize....just a little pre-emptive strike from intel gathered on The Other Site. Over there, such brain-dead nuggets such as "If you can turn, you're not going fast enough" and other signs of severe mental retardation were bandied about by those of the more linear ilk.


Hehehe, I know what you mean! :cheers


----------



## tgunnd39 (Nov 14, 2005)

*A Question (or 2)*

Just some random guidance here for a newbie to this site.

Definitely wish to add some suspension enhancements to my '05 and from all I have looked at this appears to be an excellent setup. Two questions, however. 1. Were to obtain all of the parts and 2. Who installed it.

Thanks!


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

tgunnd39 said:


> Just some random guidance here for a newbie to this site.
> 
> Definitely wish to add some suspension enhancements to my '05 and from all I have looked at this appears to be an excellent setup. Two questions, however. 1. Were to obtain all of the parts and 2. Who installed it.
> 
> Thanks!


1) I obained the parts from Mike White at Dublin Motor Sports in Dublin, CA (Bay Area), 925-560-4401 

2) Components installed / settings by Guldstrand Motorsports in Burbank, CA http://www.guldstrand.com


----------



## tkd0706 (Jan 31, 2006)

You used the stock springs? just changed the dampers? is that why there was no change in ride height?


----------



## HotRodGuy (Jan 9, 2006)

what is included in the 5 piece bushing kit?


----------



## HotRodGuy (Jan 9, 2006)

Groucho said:


> 1) I obained the parts from Mike White at Dublin Motor Sports in Dublin, CA (Bay Area), 925-560-4401
> 
> 2) Components installed / settings by Guldstrand Motorsports in Burbank, CA http://www.guldstrand.com



did that install cost you an arm and a leg?


----------



## dealernut (Oct 22, 2005)

HotRodGuy said:


> did that install cost you an arm and a leg?



From what I got, it cost a finger or two. 


We are installing here at work. Me and two of the guys will be doing some midnight wrench turning for a week or two.


----------



## HotRodGuy (Jan 9, 2006)

Groucho said:


> OK...I apologize....just a little pre-emptive strike from intel gathered on The Other Site. Over there, such brain-dead nuggets such as "If you can turn, you're not going fast enough" and other signs of severe mental retardation were bandied about by those of the more linear ilk.




haha, I thought it was just me that caught on to that about the other board real quick


----------



## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

This makes me want to get those hotchkis sway bars that have been sitting in my dad's shop for several weeks put on. My regular mechanic only has a walk-in area to work under a car, but a lift is needed to install thse since you need to lift the chassis and allow the suspension to hang. This is one of the few times it blows to live in a small town. I'm going to have to drag those beasts 60 miles to the city to get 'em installed. From this post, I guess it's worth it though.


----------



## djray77 (Nov 22, 2005)

Dude you dont need a lift to do this, be nice but not a must have.


----------



## baron_iv (Nov 17, 2005)

my mechanic said he could do it, but it would take him longer than it would someone with a lift.


----------



## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

Ok, I'm bumping this thread.

Groucho, you have an '04 goat, yes? I'm wondering if you know if the parts you mentioned would fit an '05...


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I Stall Automatics said:


> Ok, I'm bumping this thread.
> 
> Groucho, you have an '04 goat, yes? I'm wondering if you know if the parts you mentioned would fit an '05...



Same stuff. I have a friend with an '05 who did the same mod at the same time- same parts, same end effect.


----------



## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

I've got the Bushing Set and the Sway Bars(being shipped). The Koni's(4) are my next buy and then I'm thinking I want to get new springs (stock hieght rear, 1/2" lower front). To make this upgrade complete, I guess I'll have to get a Caster/Camber set as well...


Go for broke I always say


----------



## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

Groucho said:


> Same stuff. I have a friend with an '05 who did the same mod at the same time- same parts, same end effect.


When I get some more disposable $$, you'll have two. :cheers


----------



## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

I wonder if it would make any sense to get a coil over suspension system instead of koni struts... ($400 more)

As in: http://www.gravanatuning.com/applic...ustable_Coilover_Suspension_System_by_Pedders


----------



## gtony (Apr 19, 2006)

hey have you found any other companies that make coilovers for the gto?


----------



## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

gtony said:


> hey have you found any other companies that make coilovers for the gto?


http://www.norris-motorsports.com/new1.html


----------



## 4 BKT VET (Mar 28, 2006)

Why this combo over the Pedders?


----------



## Mike-Omologato-G. (May 13, 2006)

*.*



> ...were bandied about by those of the more linear ilk.


I almost sprayed the monitor with my wine there...:lol:


----------



## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

Got an email from "gravanatuning.com" which offers all these parts...

[email protected] to me
More options 8:39 am (4 hours ago)

Right now we are on an indefinite back order on all Pedders products.

There were problems with the Pedders front coilovers leaking and wearing
out, therefore we don't recommend those.

The Koni's and B&G springs seem to be a real good combination.

Thanks,
CK


----------



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

BTW...it's fun to tweak some of the settings on this setup.

An example: after being forced to accept a slightly less aggressive negative camber on my front wheels due to the fact that it tends to eat expensive tires (documented elsewhere), a decided to stiffen up the front sways to their tightest settings. I was underneath the car armed with the proper weapons anyway, as I has just finished changing my oil. So what the hell.

The difference was dramatic. The car tracked in a straight much more aggressively, requiring a much higher initial force to initiate a turn. Once in the turn, the car really felt like it was carving. At first I kind of liked it...until I really pushed the car hard on a decreasing radius turn and soon found that this little tweak increased the tendency to understeer _big time_.  

So...I took it home and backed it off.  

Fun stuff.


----------



## I Stall Automatics (Aug 10, 2005)

Whoa I did it... same exact parts and configuration as you did... got the parts & installation done at Dublin Motorsports... I plan to get some new front springs, but the difference is already incredible. I'm really curious as to how this car will compete with the M3's I'll be seeing on the track in a month. :-O

I'd give a more thorough review, but I'm going to go drive. If I had to do either this or a supercharger, I'd definetly do this.


----------



## SRT4geezer (Jul 8, 2005)

Any updates to this thread? How did you do Vs M3's this summer? Anyone want to update "the best setup"? Anyone have a good estimate on a package cost? Seems like the parts are spread around with different vendors.


----------



## ChiefyGTO (Aug 7, 2006)

How costly is your setup - install aside? Just parts/shipping?

Also, how well - if any - does it control wheel hop? What else - if anything - suspension wise added to that would you suggest to control wheel hope?

Thanks!


----------

