# Niche brand is exactly what Pontiac should be



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

*Niche brand is exactly what Pontiac should be. *
*Mark Phelan, Detroit Free Press*​ 
General Motors’ plan to make Pontiac a niche brand is a public acknowledgment of where the brand was already headed, and a move that frees Pontiac to fill the role that suits it best in GM’s lineup.

Pontiac’s previous twin goals of simultaneously being GM’s performance brand and its own division required to sell hundreds of thousands of vehicles a year clashed like plaid pants and a striped shirt.

Pontiac, which shares its dealerships with Buick and GMC, doesn’t need to offer high-volume, middle-of-the-road midsize sedans and compact cars to be successful. Buick’s and GMC’s brand characters — understated elegance and industrial-design looks and capability, respectively —are both better fits for high sales. They can cover dealers’ overhead, freeing Pontiac to relentlessly pursue drivers who want something sexy and different.

Pontiac executives got seduced into thinking they could be Chevrolet, only faster and bet-ter-looking, because the GTO moved from cult hit to pop-culture icon in the 1960s. The GTO, though, was a one-hit wonder. Trying to duplicate it left Pontiac product planners failing again and again as they sought to build cars that excited enthusiasts without intimidating mass-market shoppers.

As a niche brand, Pontiac can specialize. The outstanding G8 sport sedan and the curva-ceous Solstice roadster no longer have to be embarrassed by dowdy cousins like the G6 mid-size sedan and Torrent compact SUV.

Every G6 and Torrent sold undermines Pontiac’s value. Not because they are bad vehicles, but because they are fundamentally inconsistent with what Pontiac claims to be.

The Torrent is essentially a Chevrolet Equinox with Pontiac’s “dart” badges and minor chassis tweaks to make it the teensiest bit sportier than the Chevy. The bland G6 sedan can-not compare to the elegant and popular Chevrolet Malibu, with which it shares its major systems.

The plan to refine Pontiac’s focus is already well under way. The Torrent will be replaced in 2009 by the GMC Terrain, a compact crossover with GMC looks. The lovely Buick LaCrosse sedan that debuts at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit next month should offer enough style and features that nobody will notice when the last G6 rolls off the assembly line and into a Hertz lot.

If GM sees this plan through, Pontiac’s model line could consist of roadsters, sport sedans, head-turning coupes and convertibles like the appealing G6 two-door twins, and an occa-sional off-the-wall trial balloon like the 2010 G8 sport truck.

That’s a far cry from, and a far better fate than, the days when Pontiac witlessly built ill-advised vehicles like the Trans Sport minivan and Aztek crossover in a futile attempt to build sales volume for what is inherently a niche brand.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

Hope the "plan" works, especially with the big 3 begging for funds. 
With regards to the second generation GTO’s (Ours), Pontiac marketing failed to pitch at the correct audience and the pitches were few and far between; meaning they did not get the word out much and when they did it was not targeted correctly. They should have aimed for the BMW & Mercedes type performance enthusiasts, instead they went after the Mustang crowd, an entirely different demographic.
I will say that the Aztek is by far the ugliest crosser or car for that matter, that I have EVER seen…My.02 on the subject…


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

hmmmmmm, One day GM is contemplating axing Pontiac along with Saturn, and Saab now this article appears, a sign of total disarray. I believe with this bail out the feds will have a say in GM's future plans, I guess time will tell.


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## wooddaniel (Oct 30, 2008)

They need to bring back the trans am with an ls3 mated to a 6 speed. I'd buy one.


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## Scissors (Jul 27, 2004)

wooddaniel said:


> They need to bring back the trans am with an ls3 mated to a 6 speed. I'd buy one.


GM has the Camaro. One of GM's problems is that it competes with itself.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I wouldn't be surprised if GMC, Saturn, Buick and Pontiac all went by the wayside. Not that I'd like to see that, just wouldn't be surprised.


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## wooddaniel (Oct 30, 2008)

Rukee said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if GMC, Saturn, Buick and Pontiac all went by the wayside. Not that I'd like to see that, just wouldn't be surprised.


Hopefully pontiac stays. Buick was awesome back in the day, I used to have a 72 skylark GS 455. It was a fast car for an older one. I have always wanted a GNX. They just kinda fell by the wayside with their front drive ****boxes.


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## alexh123animals (Nov 23, 2008)

i want to see a new gto that looks like either the 66 or 67 i think then Pontiac can compete with all the manufactures that are retroing thier cars


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## kicks06 (Nov 21, 2007)

*To Many Choices*

Americans have all become spoiled over having to many Choices. Other than the Corvette, all the other divisions offer to many cars, to many options and soon they all look and drive about the same. Take GMC and Chevrolet Trucks, assembled on the same line and then given their name plates at the end. I've seen S-10's with different badges on either side of the truck. To many choices. Hate to see anyone out of work, but maybe its time to really get back to the basics and not offer so many of the same vehicles with different names: Pontiac Truck, another El Camino, that didn't last either. GTO's that look like 66's, I don't think so. What does an 06' GTO need to look like? I like the 68's myself, to many choices again:
kicks06
Dallas, GA.


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## fattirewilly (May 26, 2006)

PDQ GTO said:


> With regards to the second generation GTO’s (Ours), Pontiac marketing failed to pitch at the correct audience and the pitches were few and far between


Engineering failed too. The gas tank in the trunk is a major blunder and perfect example of the kind of slap stick crap that shouldn't have been done. 

I originally wrote the GTO off the potential purchase list because of it, thinking if the they thought the gas tank out that poorly, what else was poorly thought out. How many other potential buyers walked because of that?

I'm glad I have the car, but I'd pay good money to relocate the tank.


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## hotrodlinc (Dec 31, 2008)

fattirewilly said:


> Engineering failed too. The gas tank in the trunk is a major blunder and perfect example of the kind of slap stick crap that shouldn't have been done.
> 
> I originally wrote the GTO off the potential purchase list because of it, thinking if the they thought the gas tank out that poorly, what else was poorly thought out. How many other potential buyers walked because of that?
> 
> I'm glad I have the car, but I'd pay good money to relocate the tank.


It wasn't a engineering mistake, the fact is, the Monaro has the tank under the car but it wouldn't pass the NTSB's rear end collision guidelines so they traded the gas tank with the spare. The GTO is far from the first to have tank in the trunk. Infiniti's J30 and Q45 had it in their trunks too. 

BTW, ours' is not the 2nd gen GTO its morre like 5th gen.

1st gen: 1964 - 1967 Le Mans GTO
2nd gen: 1968 - 1972 Le Mans GTO 
3rd gen: 1973 Le Mans GTO
4th gen: 1974 Ventura GTO


Actually ours isnt concidered a 'generation' but a 'revival' GTO

just my 2cents


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

hotrodlinc said:


> BTW, ours' is not the 2nd gen GTO its morre like 5th gen.
> 
> 1st gen: 1964 - 1967 Le Mans GTO
> 2nd gen: 1968 - 1972 Le Mans GTO
> ...


An era is a generation. 1964-1974 ran concurrent with no interruption. Kind of like a child to a parent begins a new generation or a 2nd generation. (2004 was the next generation to the original generation GTO.) 

GTOAA, Pontiac Enthusiast and alike recognize the 2004-2006 as the 2nd generation GTO. If a new GTO in the future would surface they would be recognized as the 3rd generation (kind of like a grandchild is the 3rd generation)

Play on words? Perhaps, if you want to get REALLY technical, the first GTO was in 1966. 1964-1965 were Tempests with a GTO option package. However 1964-1965 GTO's are considered GTO's not Tempests even though they share the same VIN. Same with 1972-1974 GTO's which are Lemans/Ventura.

So to get even more technical "Actual" GTOs were only produced in 1966-1971 then again in 2004-2006 because they had exclusive VINs. 

That's my 2 cents plus some change.


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## Showgoat67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Well i would like to see a 2 door version of the g8 i think that would be a real head turner and a real seller against the challenger,mustang,camaro and others.

kenny


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## deg04gto (Feb 10, 2008)

Showgoat67 said:


> Well i would like to see a 2 door version of the g8 i think that would be a real head turner and a real seller against the challenger,mustang,camaro and others.
> 
> kenny


:agree and if that were to happen it would be a GTO since its a coupe. That would be cool to see, the G8 and GTO both being produced at the same time with options to distinguish the 2


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## flyer371 (Nov 22, 2006)

Off to car heaven: Saturn, Saab, Hummer

Posted Feb 17 2009, 09:35 PM by Des Toups Rating: Filed under: economy, cars

Say goodbye to Saturn. And Saab and Hummer, for that matter. Pontiac, too, for all intents and purposes.

Unless buyers (a few million of us -- or maybe just a couple of really adventurous billionaires) step forward, three of General Motors’ eight brands are now destined to join Oldsmobile in the history books. A fourth will be relegated to “niche” status, says GM. The company, until last year the world’s largest automaker, announced plans Tuesday that would drastically scale back its operations in order to stay alive.

Production of Saturn cars would stop in 2011 if the brand hasn’t been sold, GM said. Execs will decide whether to pull the plug on Hummer at the end of March, though rumors of Chinese interest have emerged (and been discounted) several times. The company says Saab will be an “independent business entity as of Jan. 1, 2010.” Take that to mean “dead” unless a reluctant Swedish government can be convinced to step in. Pontiac will emerge as a “highly focused niche brand” sold through Buick and GMC Truck showrooms.

All necessary steps, for sure. And insignificant, compared with the long-term future of the workers who make them and the towns that depend upon them.

Yet we’ll mourn these brands even if we won’t miss them.

Who'll be writing songs about Hyundais?

Pontiac was long General Motors’ coolest brand, its Firebird, Grand Prix and Bonneville as hip and relevant in their heydays as any BMW or Honda today. Its GTO was the first true muscle car, its Trans-Am the only legitimate reason to watch “Smokey and the Bandit.”

Saturn once represented hope for a new way of doing business at General Motors, with distinctive plastic-bodied cars and a warm, almost nurturing sales environment. For a time, its “Different Kind of Car Company” shtick worked: Its Homecoming gatherings in 1994 and 1999 drew 75,000 visitors to Spring Hill, Tenn., for a lost weekend of plant tours, country music and sheer differentness.

Hummer? While they might feel as outdated as a coonskin hat, they’re still a lightning rod for eco-terrorists (cops, too) and a raised middle finger to everybody in a Camry. At least you know where a Hummer driver stands, right?

There was a time when Saabs were charming – ugly, obstinate and tough as hell -- but that came long before General Motors entered the picture in 1990. Its offerings today: rebadged GM generics with the ignition switch relocated to the floor. 

For good or bad, GM has chosen its horses: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Would those be yours?

Too early for going-out-of-business sales

Don't expect a fire sale on doomed brands. There already is one, or close to it.

Once factories begin to be shuttered, the balance of supply and demand begins to tip the other way. Don't wait too long. (If you're curious, you can check out the current offerings from Saab, Hummer, Saturn and Pontiac at MSN Autos.)

GM expects its dealer count to fall from 6,246 in 2008 to 4,100 by 2014, mostly in metro and suburban markets. What it will cost GM to disentangle itself from a politically powerful dealer body wasn’t specified, but it spent more than $1 billion earlier this decade to shut down its 2,800-dealer Oldsmobile division. 

GM was the largest U.S. corporation by revenue as recently as 2000. GM held 50% or more new-car sales for decades, peaking at 55% in 1956. In 2008, that figure fell to less than 22%. Market capitalization peaked at $52 billion in 2000. Tuesday, after GM revealed its survival plans, that figure was $1.33 billion.

Whatever your feelings about Hummers, General Motors or cars in general, it's an astounding fall.


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## Tri-Power (Jan 10, 2008)

yep, the jalopnik link:
Industry News: GM To Officially Kill Saturn Brand, Most Of Pontiac
I wonder what models will survive/be created to become exlusive pontiac.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I saw an article by jalopnik stating Pontiac was killed. According to Pontiac its bogus. I wouldn't buy too much coming from that site. The guy that wrote the article failed to use spell check and while he was "reporting" Pontiac is no more NO sources were quoted nor any links to sources backing this guy up. His photoshop skills also need tweaked if he wants to pass off fictitious stories. 

With GM getting a bail out and wanting more it would stand to reason they wouldn't be too hasty right now eliminating anything until the latest appeal for additional bail out money is settled.

Maybe jalopnik should post this link on their site to back up their stories .....

GM Facts and Fiction


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## Jondster (Dec 28, 2004)

*Sad Day - but maybe not*

I caught the news yesterday from the talking head at NBC - portrayed the story as Pontiac MD is phasing completely out. Sad ... but wait.

Am I understanding this as there is perhaps a plan to keep the nameplate as a "niche" brand ? Or is that dated and revised news ?

Perhaps it makes sense that way. Perhaps it's already been in process with the relationship with Holden. To me, it may make some marketing / manufacturing sense with a "niche line-up" consisting of :

1. Solstice - as is. Saturn's Sky will be gone. There IS a market for this type of vehicle (I would think)
2. G8 sedan - as is - I'm assuming the Holden platform will continue. Hell, rename it a "Bonneville" or "Lemans"
3. G8 coupe - Holden again - with an LS3, making it a lower priced competitor for M series - and here we go with the GTO branding.

Granted lower production volume, but all manufacturing components are still in place

All this and deletion of the G6, G5, Torrent and Vibe - which do nothing but dilute the image anyways. Let Chevy and Buick have 'em.

It makes sense to me, but my vision could be clouded by wishful thinking and whimsy ...


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