# My sons 68 GTO rebuild



## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

My son bought this last July. This is the only photo of it before the tear down.








Appears only thing replaced on the interior from original was carpeting
Maybe you guys would know, was a 8 track available in 68, his car has it








Motors not original, appears to be a 69 400, wasn't looking for numbers matching GTO, he's has a budget. He sold his 05 Tacoma PU to buy this car, money left over is getting ate up quick 








































Well seeing how his old man is a worn out autobody guy... that would be me... we started this project last Oct in my shop at home.
Will post some more photos when I get a chance, most of the photos are on his computer, he has the day off today, celebrating is 22nd birthday:cheers

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes, that is the proper 8 track player for a 68.
Nicely optioned car; gages, 8 track and clock.
Great score!!!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Nice car. Those heads and block are correct for a 'base' 69 400. Check the 4 character date code on the top rear of the block next to the distributor to get a positive ID on the model year.

Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys
Hey Bear is this the date code








When my sons brought this car home on a trailer I would call it a 30fter, well maybe more like 50. It was 3 shades of red, front sheetmetal alignment problems, paint was popping all over.
Whole car was like this scoop








Car ran and drove really nice, beside a few rust issues, all and all pretty solid, and pretty much all there, well except for about half of the bolts holding her together.



























Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

D149 = April 14, 1969


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Against my better judgement I had the fenders, hood , doors and trunk sand blasted. The shop I had used in the past was moving and they wouldn't be up and running for a month. Found some else to blast the parts, they talked me into sand blasting, guaranteed they wouldn't warp it. Well quess what.








Hood was no big loss, had some rust and someone at one time took a pick hammer to it








Trunk upset me tho, trunk had no rust at all and one small ding in the center








fenders and doors were fine, no warping there, just glad I didn't send them the whole body, can only imagine what roof would of looked like.
With a lot of work was able to save the trunk, opted for a reproduction hood, pretty happy with the one we got, took a lot of blocking and filling but all in all not bad.
Got a question on the hood, anyone know the proper hole size for the hood tach, been putting off cutting the hole for some time now. Old hood the hole is like 3 3/4", not a factory cut, seems way too big

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Both fenders had some rust in the same spot








both qtrs had some rust in the wheel arch, couldn't see it till mouldings came off








Back window not bad,








Rad support corrosion from battery, note location of l rail to support
















Shot blasted parts with Glasurit epoxy primer, spot and miged in patch panels on fenders. Front end pasted at least once, Fenders off a Lemans I guess, welded up the holes. L fender also at front was rolled back inside and was filled with about 1" of mud, we drilled out the spot welds to remove inr brace for straightening of fender and brace
























At this point we had rad support over as far as it would go to the left and nothing was even close to lining up...aargh... never enjoyed frame work
Bill


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

Looking good. Always more to do..... Been there doing that..


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Time to get the car to town. Decided to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Had car towed to local garage to have engine checked out before pulling of running gear. She supposedly hadn't been driven much the last 10 or 15 years, mostly in storage,had a few oil leaks here and there, those needed to be addressed plus a couple other issues.
Me and oil, grease don't get along, done enough mechanical stuff to consider my self dangerous, decided to let someone else take care of that.
Garage pulled engine and tranny and towed it to my shop.
Like I said never really enjoyed frame work but have to admit it was kinda fun doing it again, Had to ask my guys how to turn the machine on,we got rack 5 years ago and I personally had never run it. Shop was closed for New years, perfect time to get her in and out. Heck of a way to spend the holiday tho. Frame measured out good except for the front, she was swung to the right just enough to make for poor fit of sheetmetal. Took me longer to set the car up on the rack and figure out the frame machine then it did to fix the frame. Measured the frame old school, hanging gauges and tram gauge, had frame measurements for car in a old crash book

























Good to go, time to get her back home


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## brodg (Jun 9, 2012)

Bill the car looks great. Hope you and your son are having a good time building one of these great machines. Matter of fact im going to get a 69 gto to restore with me and my dad.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

brodg said:


> Bill the car looks great. Hope you and your son are having a good time building one of these great machines. Matter of fact im going to get a 69 gto to restore with me and my dad.


Thanks
It has been fun....well at least most the time.
Son comes over every night after work, mom feeds him first, then we work on it for a couple or 3 hours.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

FOOD and professional help!!!???? Nice Dad! Eric :cheers


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Eric Animal said:


> FOOD and professional help!!!???? Nice Dad! Eric :cheers


Been called many thing in my life. Professional has never been one of them:lol:

BTW Eric
Gorgeous car you have there 

Bill


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## Jackanapes (Jun 17, 2012)

Awww bonding over bondo...

Nice car and I could think of no better professional to get to help you with it Eric.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We decided to tackle front bumper first and see if it was saveable.
Bumper was bent, didn't fit hood or the crown on the fenders, was bent down in the middle. It was previously repaired with bondo and was all cracked up. We sanded all the paint and mud off it, straighten it out the best we could by tying it down to the frame rack and using portapower and chains, they bend pretty easy we found out. After stripping the bumper applied primer with flex additive.
























The pink stuff is a repair product made for flexable bumpers.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

For the time being we quit any more work to the bumper, we wanted to get going on the fenders and door, after they were just about ready for prime we could reinstall bumper and address any more adding or subtracting to the bumper and any addtionial work needed to the front fenders were they line up to bumper.
Applied all metal to the welded seams of patch panels and to the welded up holes. Had to pull my old body hammers , shrinking dolly and metal files out of the moth balls. Got to most the dents from back side of panels, on few we used stud gun. Mask taped edge of doors with notes and measurement of gap issues because doors were going on stands for repairs.
















Started razor blading topcoat off the rear. Car had been stripped the last time it was painted, single stage paint over what I think was lacquer primer straight to the metal. Thinking maybe that was why paint was blistering over the whole car, more of issue with not letting primer cure enough before paint, paint was popping on the hood tach also which has a plastic cover


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Can you guess how I got my nickname
























Got doors and fenders in primer
After razor blading paint from body, DA'd the primer off 








Time to pull glass


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

Looking great... I'm glad I'm past that point. Looking to spray mine saturday morn.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Back window shelve little worse then we first thougt. Looked online and it appears no one reproduces the inside metal package tray? One of the priors had treated it some years ago, doesn't look like it is getting any worse.








Applied one coat of wash,etching primer then one coat of epoxy primer.
















Started cutting into the rust areas little at a time to see how bad it was,kept chasing it on the wheel arches on qtrs. Was able to look from inside trunk at outer rear window shelve








Decided at this point I needed a lift. I knew my knees wouldn't take kindly to this part of the rebuild, Back to town.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Looking at rear shelve from underneath we decided to order a repro panel and use only what we needed, wanted to stay away from factory seams if possible, cut out the rusted areas and treated bare metal underneath with zero-rust








Decided to replace both R & L qtr wheel arches and outer wheel houses.Had ordered a l qtr skin and wheel house from one of our aftermarket suppliers to see what they looked like. Company we ordered from sells them to us at so called wholesale and no shipping charges, figured what the heck, take a look any way if not happy could always return em. The repro qtr skins were pretty rough, decided to use the wheel house and take just a few inches around the arch








Cut out wheel house about 1 1/2 " from factory seam, used left over piece of wheel house to make a sleeve to weld to. Wanted to try welding panel in with our spot welder...another piece of eguipment I bought 5 years ago and had to ask my guys how to turn it on:confused








Made sleeve for qtr panel out of left over skin


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

wheel house in








outer on in wash prime








Did r qtr pretty much the same but replaced behind the wheel also








































Get her on a trailer and back home


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Looking real good Bill! :cheers


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Rukee said:


> Looking real good Bill! :cheers


Thanks Ruke
I hate to admit it ....except for tinkering around with a car I got 38 years ago and still own....this is the first car in 30 years I have truly enjoyed working on. I just hope my son will remember the time we spent together working on her.

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Nice work!


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

Looking great!!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Guys 
Flambeau
Really nice car you got there and.... one he!! of a job !!

facn8me
Hope its cooled off your way
Buffing a car in 100 degrees cant be fun:cheers

Bill


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

109* in the shop. Gotta get that sucker insulated, when the sun starts to go down I can turn on the a/c and get it comfy of course it's almost 9pm and I have 3-4 hrs in so far. 

Oh and I appreciate the advice. At no point did I take it wrong. I enjoy someone who knows what they are doing helping me because I hate body work. This is technically the first real paint job I've done. Oh I have put some white on a work truck but at no point did anyone including me care if it was straight. UNFORTUNATLY I have to paint my womans jeep because of it. Black.... And she won't let me decal it to say zombie response team... women...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Nice work, Bill. :cheers I can't tell for sure from the photos, but are those spot welds on those pieces? I'd like to know how you did that...

Thanks,
Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Nice work, Bill. :cheers I can't tell for sure from the photos, but are those spot welds on those pieces? I'd like to know how you did that...
> 
> Thanks,
> Bear


Bear you be right
Spot welds
I Got to give all the credit to the machine 
Done with a 3 phase resistant spot welder.
It uses no wire or gas, it melts the 2 panels together , no need to drill holes. no warpage , no sparks, no grinding after. 
My guys had to tell me how to run it..:confused
I hate to give away my age but when I started doing body work mig welders weren't even out yet.
But hey.. this old dog aint too old to learn new tricks:cheers

Bill


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Now that's just cool ---- what does the machine look like? Do you have to have access to both sides of the metal for it to work? (The one's I've seen look like big clamps..)

Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Bear

The welder we have has 2 welding heads. One is the big clamp type you referred to, you have to have access to both sides.
The other one as long as you can grind off the paint on the back side of the outer panel it welds them together from the outside. It's probably used 90% of the time.








Have to say it is probably one of the best tools I ever bought.
Pull the trigger and in a mila second you got a weld.It's all controlled by a computer. 


Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

If you could bring them by my house, that would be swell. ;-)


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

bondobill said:


> Bear
> 
> The welder we have has 2 welding heads. One is the big clamp type you referred to, you have to have access to both sides.
> The other one as long as you can grind off the paint on the back side of the outer panel it welds them together from the outside. It's probably used 90% of the time.
> ...


Wow this machine is so cool.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

That's just neater'n fried taters. :cheers I didn't know such a machine existed.

Thanks!

Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Got her back home for more mud work
I finally wised up and partitioned off the stall with plastic
















in prime








Body panels installed again for final fit and repairs to front bumper
















I might be out of sequence here with the install of body panels for final repair of bumper. We have had the panels on and off so many times I get dizzy just thinking about it

Bill


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## facn8me (Jul 30, 2011)

On it's way. Looking great


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

One more time
All sheetmetal and bumper in final prime.Installed parts for the last time...we hope... to check fit of panels and bumper. Just wanted to make sure we had enough room to play with after parts where painted off the body. We painted and left the door hinges on the body after removing the doors. Didn't want to try and align those to the pillars after everything is painted








































Determined we had enough room to play.arty:
Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We decided it was time to clean up the front of frame rails,firewall and dash
These projects seem to turn into a lot bigger project than originally planned. 
Pulled front suspension, strip forward frame down to metal








Painted frame with black DP primer first than shot it with single stage Concept flattened to semi gloss 
Shot firewall with same, flattened to a satin finish, used satin finish on control arms. dash was gutted and spayed with Concept flattened to in between satin and flat.
























Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Nice! Getting closer!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Been a while, with summer and such finding not a lot of time to work on the car.
Started putting front suspension back together, with body in final prime we needed a break from that. Felt good putting something back together. Son got a front suspension rebuild kit came with polyurethane bushing and Moog ball joints. He also decided to go with QA1 front coil shocks, also has a set for the rear, haven't had time to install those yet. When we pulled the old coils out of the front one was 3/4" longer than the other. Took everything apart on the front and painted it.

































Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

My son blocking out the final prime with 320 dry.
















After the 320,we wet sanded with 600 sand paper. 
Finally had a panel ready for paint. We started with the trunk...that's the one the sand blasters warped to crap. 








Got a few more panels ready for paint


































Brent...that be my son... finally settled on black for the body color.
We found a black with just a touch of red pearl. We changed the toners in the paint formula to make it appear to be more of a deep black until the sun hits it

















Oh, by the way guys. No I am not doing the spraying. That is the one thing I do not want to do. We got way too much time in it now to have me screw up the paint job.
I painted cars for over 30 years. I have not done much painting for the last 8 or 10 years.... I don't miss painting at all !!


Bill


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## Joe'sToy (Mar 9, 2012)

Awesome Bill, that will really pop once it's all done and back together. Well done sir. :cheers


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Beautiful --- straight as an arrow too.

:cheers

Bear


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Gorgeous!!

That is a great color.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Can't wait to see it back together!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys :cheers

We are hoping to get the body into my shop in town for paint in the next week or two.

We really need to get that painted and back home before we get into our winter season .

Bill


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## little goat (Jul 9, 2012)

that looks great


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Getting a few more things done to the goat. Brent shooting core support and fender liners








Got the car to town. I don't have a lift at home and we wanted to clean up and paint the underside and drop out the rear diff. The underside was fairly clean, couple of days with lacquer thinner, scothbrite pads and a wire brush and it was good enough.
























BTW those runs where in the factory paint :lol:
Any of you guys know what's up with the pink paint on the rear diff, had the same color on the center of the drums ?









Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

A little bit of rear suspension work


































Thanks goes out to Bear for the advise


Bill


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Awesomeness! You're going to love the way it handles. 

Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Bear
Sons thinking about a rear sway bar kit from Spohn also. 
I told him to wait until we are done, see if he has got any money left :lol:
Thanks again for steering us in the right direction :cheers
We hope to get paint on the body sometime this week if my painter has time.
Then back home she goes.....I enjoy working on it at home much more than at my body shop. 

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Got her in the booth last Thursday eve
















Got her shot on Friday morn.

















Got her back home Saturday morn 









Color appears to be what us old timers would call a jet black.....until the sun hits it just right

















Saturday got her color sanded...first used 1500 grit, then 2000 grit and then 3000 grit on a DA







\
Sunday got her what I would called rough buffed with Meqiuers 150.

Damn I'am tired !!.....

But I luv every minute of it :cheers

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looks great!! Cheers!


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

What color is that?!? Looks GREAT! :cheers:

68-69 GTO's are just about the sexiest looking Muscle Cars ever made. I'm not biased either .


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys

The color.....do I dare say was used on KIA's :lol:

Formula called for 3 black toners, and a pearl, no metal flake.
One of the toners is a true black, 2 of the black toners in the formula are not a true black, they give the color what I would call a muddy flop.
We got rid of the muddy black toners and used strictly the true black toner in the formula. You don't even see the pearl until the sun hit it just right, really shows up only on the highlighted areas of the body. 

Bill


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Man, that's just gorgeous. I can't wait to see how it pops when it's all wet sanded and buffed out.
Great job! :cheers

Bear


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## Evilgoat06 (Jun 11, 2012)

Looks great!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Haven't had a lot of time lately work on the goat.
We are waiting on a back ordered dash pad, speedo rebuild to arrive and a few other things for the dash. 
We want the dash and gauges back in her before we put the drive train back in.
We did manage to lay down some rattle trap on the interior compartment.

























Also got the trunk sprayed









Bill


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

That color is nice! Cant wait to see it more finished. I'm like ALKY, 68-69 is sexy!


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Definitely looking great!!


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## mybadz71 (Oct 13, 2012)

Bill, new to the forum and current 68 owner (currently under construction). I was curious as to what you did to repair your package tray? I have the same rust problem, short of finding a donor car(impossible in my area) im looking for an alternate method to replacing the rusted parts. Great job by the way.


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## Logchain (Nov 29, 2011)

mybadz71 said:


> Bill, new to the forum and current 68 owner (currently under construction). I was curious as to what you did to repair your package tray? I have the same rust problem, short of finding a donor car(impossible in my area) im looking for an alternate method to replacing the rusted parts. Great job by the way.


Post of some pics so we can get a better idea of what needs to be done. I had to replace some metal where my package tray met the window channel, it was completely rusted out.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

mybadz71 said:


> Bill, new to the forum and current 68 owner (currently under construction). I was curious as to what you did to repair your package tray? I have the same rust problem, short of finding a donor car(impossible in my area) im looking for an alternate method to replacing the rusted parts. Great job by the way.


We would of replaced it if a repo was available.
Like I said before the shelve had been treated years ago by someone,didn't appear to be getting any worse.
The only purpose for it as far as I can tell is to hold speakers and the fabric package tray. Metal was good where the rear window shelve welds to it,its got to be for our spot welder to weld the panels together. 
We thought about cutting it all out and weld in a full panel but then we would of had to add channel stiffeners to firm it up.
We decided to wire wheel it from both top and bottom and applied Zero rust to both sides and epoxy prime.
Brents going to add speakers so we will just cut some plates for the under side of the tray for the speakers to bolt thru.
Short of crawling in the trunk and looking from the bottom side at shelve who's going to know......well except for you all on here. 
Cars going be a driver. We probably would have done it different if it was a numbers matching car and he was taking it to shows as such. 
I am pretty confident the tray will out last me and maybe Brent for that matter.

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We decided today we couldn't put off any longer the installation of the vinyl wood grain in the new dash bezels Brent had bought.
I wasn't looking forward to it at all.

It went a lot better than I thought it would.









A few trial fits, a wee bit of soapy water, heat gun and a few choice words...



















All and all it went fairly well.


Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Decided to remove the old under coat on the underside of the front fender liners.
We used a propane torch and a scraper.



The original rubber splash shields are still attached, we are trying to save them.










Those factory staples are a SOB to work around 










One down....one to go










Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Ugh, that brings back fond memories! Used a wire wheel on mine followed by solvent, then had them powder coated. Wish I had liners


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

I am glad you posted pics of this, for I am about to do the same to my car. I figure since I am not quite ready for the blasting (a money issue), I figured I would get a jump start on things by stripping, cleaning, and painting (maybe even powder coating) things like the inner fender wells, fire wall, floors, trunk and frame. 

Flambeau, how well did it work for you to use a wire brush? I am thinking of using a rotating wire brush wheel to strip and clean those specific areas that I just mention In particular, the floors and trunk has surface rust, but are not flat surfaces, so I figured a wire brush wheel would work as well if not better than a sanding disc. Any tips?


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Worked well for initial removal if undercoating is not too thick. Sanding disc is good after cleaning to give your paint something to grip. High speed wire wheel leaves a very smooth surface.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Brent got his dash instruments back this week 
Speedo and oil pressure gauge rebuilt. new circuit board, oil pressure gauge face repainted, bulbs replaced, and all the needles repainted.
























They were done by Precision Pontiac....really happy with the results.

Hopefully we will remember how to put it all back together now.:confused

Brent spent tonight polishing the lenses 

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

How much was the gauge service?

Sent from my GT-P3113 using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> How much was the gauge service?
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using AutoGuide.Com Free App


$300. for what we had done.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Not bad, thanks


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Brent and I been getting the radiator support in.
Ran across a couple of brackets that Brent took off the radiator support.
He marked em R & L lower radiator support.
We be damned if I can figure out where they go :confused
May be marked wrong ???









Anyways he spent the night putting the gauges back together...his eyes be a lot younger than mine :lol:
I spent the night installing rad support and fender liners
Shop putting the drive train back in wanted the dash and radiator support back in so they could fire everything up after install and bring engine up to temp.
Like I said before....... I ain't no mechanic 

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Brent got the instrument cluster back together on the work bench
The old man ...that would be me...gave up on trying to get the knobs off the heater control face without breaking em. Brent took over and got em off and polished the face plate

















Bill


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Bill,
Before you put the dash back together, pry the tabs on the back of the fan switch (take it apart slowly and pay attention to how it goes together) and clean out all the gunk in there and coat the contact surfaces with dielectric grease. My switch stopped working a few years ago and this fixed mine when it was restored last year. Better yet, let the youngster do it. lol


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

68GTO4004Spd said:


> Bill,
> Before you put the dash back together, pry the tabs on the back of the fan switch (take it apart slowly and pay attention to how it goes together) and clean out all the gunk in there and coat the contact surfaces with dielectric grease. My switch stopped working a few years ago and this fixed mine when it was restored last year. Better yet, let the youngster do it. lol


Thanks 68
Took your advise.
Brent took the switch apart last night cleaned it up and applied some dielectric compound . It was really gunked up.

Thanks again :cheers

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Kinda going backwards here. 

Brent found some pictures on his cell phone from July of 2011 when he picked up his GTO after buying her sight unseen. 
Let me tell you all...his dad was more then a wee bit nervous and skeptical  
He used the old mans truck and a borrowed trailer....trekked 400 miles across the Cascades to Walla Walla Wa. to pick her up.



























Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We Got the dash almost together......or I should say Brent did.
















Went pretty good up till installing the glove box door. You got to love parts made in China for a 40 year old GM car 
I spent about half a day trying to line up the glove box door with the new bezel installed. Filed out holes as much as we could just trying to get a happy medium.















.
We were able to fab up some tabs for the lower heater vent for attaching it it to the heater interior box.







.

Got a question...what does the radio speaker attach to ?
When we took the radio out the P.O. had 3 speakers above the radio unattached.

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Been a while but we have been progressing slowly.
We got the dash cover installed...only had to take it back off one time and do a little trimming and paint it
Cover came black but when it was on the dash it looked gray next to the rest of it


















We just had to install some of the stainless back on. We repaired and polished all of the originals, some looks really good others need a little more work yet.

















Bill


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## Joe'sToy (Mar 9, 2012)

Very, very nice!


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## joedee (Dec 13, 2012)

*Dash pad question*

The car is looking great. Where did you get the dash pad from? I know you were not happy about the color but how was the fit and finish?

Thank you,
Joe


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

joedee said:


> The car is looking great. Where did you get the dash pad from? I know you were not happy about the color but how was the fit and finish?
> 
> Thank you,
> Joe


It's a dash pad cover from PY. It is glued over top of original pad.
Grain is a little bolder than originial, seeings how it is plastic the feel is harder to the touch.
We had to trim about 3/16" off of it above the glove box door. 
Actually fit pretty good.
Looks a lot better than the cracked up originial pad.

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

While it has been awhile since last post.
Car has been at a garage the last 6 weeks putting the motor and tranny back in. They work on it in their spare time...not a lot of spare time I am thinking.
With the car gone we have been finishing up most of the smaller parts and such. It's all things that got to be done sooner or later, we are running out of things to do until we get the car back from the garage.
Would like to thank a couple of guys on here for selling us some hard to find parts we needed.
Thanks to 68GTO4004Spd for getting us the dash lamp for above the radio
Also thanks to JMT455 for the proper headlamp bezels....Brents had 69 bezels in it.
Got the grilles and headlamp bezels painted... was Brents idea to paint the emblem red 








Painted the last of the body parts today, saved the worst for last. More than once I threatened to junk the repo hood, probably would of had less time in fixing his old one. Fit was good but the rest was a mess.








The endura bumper I gave up on more than once but we finally got there.








Tach and scoops








We need to get the car back soon....told Brent he would be driving it by this summer...only a year behind schedule


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Looking good, Bill.
We are at almost exactly the same point. 
I imagine your son is chomping at the bit...driving season will be here before we know it!


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Man! Can't wait to see it back together!


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## Joe'sToy (Mar 9, 2012)

Very nice, waiting for the final assembly. Looking fantastic so far. :cheers


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Hold on there, you are not done painting those grills until you mask off all the fins and paint the black. You can't get off that easy, I spent hours on mine.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

68GTO4004Spd said:


> Hold on there, you are not done painting those grills until you mask off all the fins and paint the black. You can't get off that easy, I spent hours on mine.


Maybe he likes the grills all one color. As for me, I kind of like the idea of painting the grills all black (except for the chrome trim).


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

68GTO4004Spd said:


> Hold on there, you are not done painting those grills until you mask off all the fins and paint the black. You can't get off that easy, I spent hours on mine.


Well I quess ya got me there.:lol:
Yea I cheated...painted just the front of the ribs black...much easier to mask that way, these 60 year old eyes ain't what they used to be 
Besides, we painted the GTO emblem red instead of white  so much for originality. :cheers


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Got her back home today arty:
























Fired her up when we got her home...sounds awesome....music to our ears...:cheers..... have no idea how to post on you tube.:confused
Spent Saturday putting front bumper together


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Man! Looks great!!! I Wanna hear it, figure out the video! I bet your son is stoked. :beer:


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Man! Looks great!!! I Wanna hear it, figure out the video! I bet your son is stoked. :beer:


Got to admit.......
Been a while since a car has gotten me excited 
But this old goat.....
We be both stoked....arty:

Bill


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Car looks amazing! Great work.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We be in a holding pattern until the headliner is installed.
I refuse to install w/shield, back glass, pillar weatherstrips, doors ect...ect..ect.. until interior is mostly in. 

Ok guys, I be old school...or should I say I am a old fart....I like to think there be a method to my madness :lol:

I be driving my son nuts 

Tonight he was cleaning up interior door panels and painting the emblems with a toothpick :cool


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Panels look great! Working on mine too.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Brent came in under budget on the mechanical side of the resto.arty:
Now he wants to install ram air manifolds..ya I know, would of been nice to change them out while the engine was out. We dont have the front sheetmetal on her yet so I figure now would be the time to do it, and we could do it ourselves at home
I am guessing his manifolds are d port, are there any casting #on the manifolds that would tell us ? His heads are 62s. Also I see ram air restorations has 2 different ones listed, one oversized for larger exhaust.
His car has 2.5" exhaust on but you can see in the photo from his manifolds they kept the originial sized exhaust and welded it to the new.








Is this section of smaller pipe defeating the purpose of having 2.5" exhaust.
If we didn't have to replace the smaller section of pipe to the manifold it would make our job easier I am guessing :confused.,or should he go with the oversized manifolds and replace the smaller section of pipe also. we would have to bring the car to a muffler shop to have that done.
Are the ram air manifolds worth putting on ?
This is not my field of expertise :confused, any and all advise would be greatly appreciated.
This site has helped us a lot through out our rebuild :cheers
Thanks guys

Bill


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes. having that short section of pipe will definitely affect power, especially so close to the heads. It wouldn't be so bad farther down-stream. Like it is, the money spent on the 2 1/2 exhaust is essentially wasted because you're not getting the benefit of it.

Casting number 62 heads are D-port heads, so you'll want D-port manifolds. Since you've already got the 2 1/2 system, get the oversize manifolds plus the correct size down pipes - that would be my recommendation.

Bear


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I agree with Bear, ditch the weenie pipe whether or not you go with RA/HO manifolds...


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Bear and Flambeau

I was afraid that would be your advise. 
He's on the phone with ram air restoration right now ordering everything he needs.
He has been talking about putting headers on it for some time now. I kept trying to talk him out it. Had headers on my Vette 30 some years ago, what a PITA !!!
These ram air manifolds be the way to go for us. 

Thanks again guys and keep up the good work you do here. :cheers

Bill


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Nice work Bill. I love the front bumper assembly, looking great. I am a fan of the non-hide-away lights. Question, I see you assembled the front bumper (with grill and lights) prior to installing on car. Is this the normal way to install this bumper? I understand you likely installed just the bumper to get propper fit, then removed it and painted it. But for final install, can you install the bumper completed like you have it, or is that a mock up to make sure all parts are there and fit correctly?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We will probably pull the headlight doors and grilles for install of the bumper to the car, will make it easier to adjust. I had a few hours one Sat. I wanted to mock it up. Glad I did, had to tweak the headlamp mounting panels, they where bent just enough to throw every thing off. Also one of the mounting pins on a grille was gone and we figured out a way to replace it. The 3 or 4 hours we spent mocking up the bumper I figured would save a lot of time and headache later seeings how the bumper will probably be the last thing we install on the car.
As far as the repairing of the bumper I lost track of how many times we had the bumper on and off the car. We fitted the bumper to the car and the front sheetmetal to the bumper if that makes sense. Had to bend, add and subtract repair material to the bumper, tweak fenders ect. ect.
Brents bumper was made to fit his car, the bumper probably wouldn't fit on another 68.

Bill


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

bondobill said:


> *We will probably pull the headlight doors and grilles for install of the bumper to the car, will make it easier to adjust*. I had a few hours one Sat. I wanted to mock it up. Glad I did, had to tweak the headlamp mounting panels, they where bent just enough to throw every thing off. Also one of the mounting pins on a grille was gone and we figured out a way to replace it. The 3 or 4 hours we spent mocking up the bumper I figured would save a lot of time and headache later seeings how the bumper will probably be the last thing we install on the car.
> As far as the repairing of the bumper I lost track of how many times we had the bumper on and off the car. We fitted the bumper to the car and the front sheetmetal to the bumper if that makes sense. Had to bend, add and subtract repair material to the bumper, tweak fenders ect. ect.
> Brents bumper was made to fit his car, the bumper probably wouldn't fit on another 68.
> 
> Bill


"Headlight doors?" I am confused, I thought you were going with non-hide-away headlights like in the pics posted. Did you change your mind and decide to go with hide-away headlights?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Sorry

I meant headlight bezels, I've been in the body business too long.
Back in the day we always called the bezels doors...got confusing when they came out with hideaways.

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

I always call them doors, too.
Old school body terminology...just revealing our age!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

jmt455 said:


> I always call them doors, too.
> Old school body terminology...just revealing our age!


Thanks jmt 
Nice to know I ain't the only old fart here :cheers
I just went through a old Mitchell crash book. Up till about 1964 Gm called them doors.After that for a year or so they called them doors or bezels, about 67 they called em bezels. :confused
Ford called them doors through the 60's 

Dang I'am getting old. :cheers

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

bondobill said:


> Dang I'am getting old. :cheers
> 
> Bill


Me, too. :agree


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We got the headliner in. Supposed to have front seats back next week.
Been cleaning up and painting the lace around the headliner, ran out of the white base Brent got from ames. Brought home 4 different shades of int paint from SEM, none of them match like the paint from ames, oh well ordered 3 more 
cans from them.
Spent most the night screwing with paint matching and trying to figure out how to mount his speakers in the kick panels...Thanks Flambeau for your post about the same thing.
He bought panels that have cut out for speakers but we would have to cut some of inside of the pillar and move the e brake...that ain't happening. Speakers he got for Xmas are to big to fit in the vent pockets...looks like he will be looking for speakers that fit.
Ram air manifolds should show today. 
Kinda of frustrating evening, out in the shop for 3 1/2 hours and got about 10 minutes of work done.
Just to make us feel better we hung a door, that was the 10 minutes of work accomplished


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Ram Air manifolds showed up arty:
Brent got them from Ram Air Restorations. Appear to be as advertised.....not that I would know the difference :lol:
He ordered the oversized and a section of pipe.
No more weanie section of pipe 
Thanks to Bear and Flambeau for the advise :cheers


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Man those look sweet! :beer:


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Got a question on the install of the ram air manifolds.
just want to make sure we have all our ducks in a row before starting.
Will we have to raise the engine some for install? One of my quys has a engine hoist if we need it.
Also room looks a little tight on the L side, do we need to pull the steering gear and shaft to allow more room for install ?
Brent got a new bolt kit and gaskets along with the manifolds, someone was telling us about a retainer that you use with the bolts, they help to keep the bolts tight :confused. Looked at the bolts he got and all that they have are lock washers.
This question is really bad but I am going to ask anyways, do you use a gasket sealer on the gasket....I know guys stupid question, but it was 30 years ago I swapped out the headers on my Vette. 
Any other tricks or advise will be greatly appreciated.

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Bill,
I can't be 100% certain about raising your engine for the manifold installation, but the service manual does not indicate that the engine needs to be lifted. It will be tight, but you should be able to snake it through the gap. 

Removing the steering gear and shaft will make the installation easier, but you should be able to sneak the manifold through the gap with out taking those parts off. 

The manifold bolt locks are available from most of the Pontiac restoration suppliers.
AMES Performance: $2.00 each









OPGI: $3.99 each
http://www.opgi.com/p/exhaust/16792/51/G240798.html

These are very nice and they are "original" looking, but I just used regular lock washers on the last set I installed.

I installed my last set (also from RARE) with gaskets but without SEALANT and had no leaks.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Joe 
I'll have Brent order those bolt locks, we got lots of other things to work on in the meantime. 
One of these days I will get around to looking at his ebake and the photos you sent me...... which I really appreciate....... and get back to ya.
She's starting to look like a car again.
Got to admit Brent has been patient with his old man, I don't move as fast as I used to. 
I know I didn't have much patience at 22. 

Thanks again

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Bill,
I just noticed a mistake in my earlier reply.
I installed my RARE manifolds WITH gaskets but WITHOUT sealant.
Sorry; guess I had a brain fart when typing that last sentence.
I've corrected the original post, but wanted to make sure you saw it.
Joe


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

By the way, you guys are doing a GREAT job on that car.
It is drop-dead gorgeous!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Joe
I kinda figured you where talking about sealer
Just got the last qtr glass installed. What a PITA they are !!

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Yeah they are! My body guy took all the glass out, didn't label anything and lost hardware. I had a fun time piecing it back together...


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We had everything labeled and still had a heck of a time.
I figured it was all down hill after those.....wrong
Spent the better part of today installing vent window and hardware in drivers door. 
Oh well, I struggled with them 40 years ago also. 

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Been getting a few things done








Brent got some armrests and trim for the headliner spruced up








Got the front buckets back this weekend. New covers, foam, seat backs, Lower panels, chrome lacing, and drivers seat lower springs.
All where from Legendary.
























Windshield and back window to go in this week 
Waiting for a roller for left door window regulator so we can finish up the glass









Headliner and its hardware trim is just about done.
All he needs for the interior is the steering wheel he ordered back in Nov. 

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Man, that thing is looking great! Love the pearl on black.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Flambeau
Of all the colors he was thinking about, I liked black the best,
although it did make the body work a wee more work

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We got the L side Ram Air manifold in today arty:

Kinda like trying to fit square peg into a round hole 


Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Finished up install of ram air manifolds. It went ok without too much cussing. We where able to drop them in from up top. Took steering shaft loose and clutch linkage on the left side to snake manifold in from above. 
Had to re route wires to starter, that was the fun part 
The old man dropped a small nut for the starter wire down the head pipe  luckily it ended up in the pipe for the dump..Brent removed the dump plate and was able to get it out with a coat hanger.
We got the vent windows and door glasses installed, took a couple of nights and a few brews.
We started putting fenders, and fender liners in this last weekend. kind of nerve racking when everything is painted, so far no causality's.
















Kinda hard with my old eyes to see the gaps with the car being black. I use colored electric tape to help, also found electricial tape is a lot stronger than masking tape and also a lot slicker than masking tape.








I knew that section of 4x4 would come in handy someday. :lol:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yeah ask bear to show you his scar from propping open a hood spring...


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

With the ram air manifolds in it's time to weld on the the 2 1/2" drop pipe from manifold to existing exhaust. I got a photo of it a couple pages back.
Anyone have any tricks or advice on lining them up before welding.
Should we butt weld them ? I can see having a lot of issues with getting the cuts right if we go that way. What if we cut the pipes at 45 angles, might make it easier to line up that way with the pipe loosely bolted to the manifold 
How about using a joint section that slides over the 2 pieces, only problem there is we have 2 more welds to do and twice as many chances for leaks.
Whats you think ? We be open for any suggestions

Thanks 
Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

If I'm following you correctly I would make as few joints as possible, cut angles, mock up for butt weld and tack weld everything on the car while mocked and go from there.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Getting a little closer :lol:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The paint looks really good.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Rukee
Painting the car in pieces makes it a lot easier for the painter to get a smoother and cleaner job.....but putting the painted pieces all back together without screwing some thing up is some what stressfull, lots of wood paint stir sticks and electrical tape :lol:
The paint isn't flaw less, still has some minor orange peel to it, I would rather have that than have the clear coat peel a few years down the road because I sanded off too much clear.
I had to plead with my painter to put on 3 coats of clear instead of just 2 coats. We shoot Glasurit and they are pretty adamant about only applying 2 coats of their high solids clear....solvent pop issues and mill thickness is what they tell us. Painter did get a 3rd coat on without any problems.
I can't take credit for the paint, my painter has been with me for going on 30 years and I have not shot a car in close to 10 years now, having him shoot it was a no brainer for me

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

It looks great, Bill.


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

That black paint makes my mouth water like it would for an old Smith Brothers' black cough drop!!! (MMMMM)!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

The wheels showed up from YO 17x9 for rear and 8s for the front.
Thinking about painting the gunmetal black on the wheels, whats ya think ?





The hood release rod bugs us, are they supposed to hang down this far.

We cut a 2" section off the rod, welded back together and painted black.
May not be factory correct, but we be happier :lol:


Now we just got to figure out tire sizes. Looking at red lines 255/50 front and rear. We are wondering if a 1" wide red wall tire would be too much :confused

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Bill,
Yes, the hood release rod looked too long. I think that might have been a different part for the LeMans chrome bumper, but I'm not certain. What you did looks much better.

As far as painting the gray areas black, I think it would look good either way. Those rims look very nice; can't wait to see how the car looks after they're installed. Might need to do something like that on mine, too!

I think a 3/8" red line looks good; 1" would be overkill, IMHO. 
I would mock up different widths with red cloth or vinyl tape to see what looks best.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I personally like the contrast and depth the gunmetal give the rims and agree with JMT that 1" redline would be excessive.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Joe
What you said about the hood release makes sense about being for a chrome bumper.
P.O. told Brent the car came with the Endura delete option, someone had changed out the bumper years ago to the endura, probably never changed the hood rod.
When Brent was dealing with the P.O. about price.......she wanted way too much for the car.......he made her a offer. While she excepted his offer after a couple of weeks,then she said it did not include the front chrome bumper she had for it.
She wanted another $550 for the chrome bar and brackets.
I told Brent to tell her to shove it where the sun don't shine.
The bar was a poor core at best.
Brent didn't want the chrome bumper on it anyway.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

wheels look great, on any other color i would say gunmetal but black on black always works. I think no more than 3/8" on the redline especially with the low profile sidewalls. I have been eyeing a 70' with the judge trim, would probably take the same course as Bret, low and wide since its far from numbers matching and has a full hotchkis stage 2 suspension. That car of yours is gonna look MEAN!!!!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

While we finally got the front end together and some what lined up.
PITA.
We got tired of splitting hairs and settled on a happy medium.

 







Brent got a rear bumper from Ames. We be very happy with it seeing how it's a repo. He opted to go with the show quality for a few bucks more, probably the nicest chrome finish I have seen in a long time. Does have a little issue on the right side where it rolls around the end of the quarter. R side of bumper makes a little sharper turn than the L side...we are not going to worry about it... we never planned on making a show car out of it. We got to do a little more twicking but it's close


Brent is picking up this weekend the last couple o.e. mouldings that he needs to finish the outside arty: 
Started putting the interior in last night...he just might be driving it this summer :cheers


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Looks awesome Bill. :cheers For not wanting a show car, I think that's exactly what you got!


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

The fit on the bumper looks fine to me. Now come to Ohio and help me to get mine to fit that good. Make sure you get those bolts super tight, the first time you jack up the car the bumper fit will change. Fun Fun. Did you paint the trunk lock black or is it not in yet? Hard to tell in pic. Those damned young wipersnappers and their big wheels on muscle cars. lol


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys for the comments and feed back.
I think for now Brent is going to leave the new wheels gun metal.
We are having a hard time finding some junk tires to mount on the new rims to see if they will clear ok in the size we want. all we can find are 225/50/17, would like to find 255/50/17. Hate to order these redlines in 255/50 and find out they won't fit . I don't think we will have a issue on the back, it's the fronts I am concerned about. We what to lower the car a little with the back up just a bit from the front. Thinking we will probably mount some junk 225s on the 8" rims and put them on the front just to get a idea on clearances.
Diamondback tires suggested going with 45 series tire, but we would like a little more side wall than that. :confused 

68GTO4004sd
The lock cylinder and the emblem wasn't installed yet in the photo of the rear.
Got a question on the nameplate on the rear. I know inside the GTO letters are black, is the bar between them supposed stay chrome or are they black also. We had the letters painted red but decided to redo them in black.
As far as kids and their big wheels, got to agree, it would have been a lot easier to go with stock rims.
We tightened up the bumper bolts with a 1/2' drive,and I am still concerned about what will happen when we put the car on a lift.First time up I am going to make sure the hood and doors are open. 
A trip to Ohio might be fun but I don't know if I could live through trying to line up another endura bumper 

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

My rear emblem is black inside the letters and the rest is chrome (in between included)


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

FlambeauHO said:


> My rear emblem is black inside the letters and the rest is chrome (in between included)


Mine too.

A trip to Ohio might be fun but I don't know if I could live through trying to line up another endura bumper 

I don't blame ya.

I don't know about where you live, but in Ohio there are used tire stores. If you just want something for fittment and aren't concerned about tread, you can probably buy them for a couple bucks.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

68GTO4004Spd said:


> Mine too.
> 
> A trip to Ohio might be fun but I don't know if I could live through trying to line up another endura bumper
> 
> ...


We have one of those tire places out here, checked them out, they have nothing in that size.
I have a good friend that owns a small tire shop here, he has been on vacation for a couple weeks. He called me last night from Idaho, he's coming back today.
He said he would order up a couple 255/50s so we could try them, then he would return them after we are done with em..... now is that a good friend or what. 
I live as far N.W. as you can get in the continental U.S. Any further either way and I would be a canuck eh !! :lol:

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We have gotten all the weatherstrips installed except for the cowl to hood w/strip
That one is going to need a little more compression than the others.
Took about a month for the trunk w/strip to settle in. Had to shim the hinges to the trunk and set the striker as high as it would go just to get the trunk closed.
After about a week in the closed position we where able to remove the shims and start setting the striker lower. Took about 3 weeks of compressing the w/strip before we finally got the end result we wanted.
The doors where a little better. Installed the w/strips last weekend, had to set strikers out some to get the doors to close, will give them a few more days than we should be able to set the strikers in to where we want them and they will be done.
This is the cowl w/strip..figured I would leave it this way for a week or so than it should be ready to install. That be the w/strip between the 2 boards.:lol:


We been getting the stereo ready for install. Brent didn't think he would be using the 8 track much  Took some research on Brent part to come up with a unit that would fit in the 8 track compartment. It was my job to fab up a bracket to use with the existing 8 track bezel and box.....with out molesting the original hardware. Just got to build a bracket to support the back and it should be ready to go. Has a little storage compartment under the stereo




Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looking great, I like the stereo install. Hope the weatherstripping works out, didn't have to compress mine?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Looking great, I like the stereo install. Hope the weatherstripping works out, didn't have to compress mine?


Thanks Flambeau
We bought the rubber from Steele...been buying from them for better then 20 years, always been happy with their product. Sometimes they slap right in and you are good to go, sometimes they take a little time to compress to the point of having good alignment of panels with out having to slam the crap out of things to get them to latch...we have the same problems sometimes with w/strip from the o.e manufacturer for late model vehicles. Just takes time and patience.
The one on the cowl raised the hood up about 3/8" in the back, could be that the o.e hinges we used are a little worn in the bushings, tho they seem tight. I couldn't stand looking at the hood sitting like that so that's why we pulled the w/strip back off and thought we would speed up the process a little.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Got the new carpets..they went OK
Brent got the stereo in ..whole lot more complicated now then it was 40 years ago


Updated 8 track:lol:


Back seat and rear interior panels original as well as front door interior panels



Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Getting ready to install the GTO stickers on the Quarters. How far forward of the rear side lamps do they go ?
I have seen photos any where from 1 to 6" 
We did our final buff and want to install the stickers before waxing.

Getting close.

Thanks 

Bill


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Go back in my thread a few pages and I have several pics, did a lot of research and there was no one place to put them. I used a string to the door handle for level and would be happy to measure again if you like the positioning.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Go back in my thread a few pages and I have several pics, did a lot of research and there was no one place to put them. I used a string to the door handle for level and would be happy to measure again if you like the positioning.


Thanks man 
I found it in your thread...looks good.
You placement is higher than all the other photos ones I've seen as
far as placement to the side lamp.
We like it, hope you don't mind if we copy it.

Thanks a bunch 

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

On my last 68, I searched for a long time to find some pics of original cars.
Looked to me like the letters were centered (vertically) on the same level as the center of the side marker lamp and the rear-most edge of the letters were approximately one letter width forward of the lamp bezel.

Here's where I installed them:


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

That's about how my GTO stickers are located. You know, with that parchment interior, a white shifter ball would look cooler.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

68GTO4004Spd said:


> That's about how my GTO stickers are located. You know, with that parchment interior, a white shifter ball would look cooler.


:agree
Brent's sister ordered a white shifter knob today for his BD on 6/8.

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Tires from DB Classic showed up today.
Got them mounted....had a little time to screw with the QA1 shocks as far as ride height.







Personally I would rather have the GTO decal on the Quarters in white...so far I have been out voted 10 to 1 





We are getting close...maybe only a dozen things that need to be addressed or done over.
Heck of a lot closer then we where a year ago.....

So whats ya all think .......
Too much red ?????


Bill


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## Joe'sToy (Mar 9, 2012)

Car looks amazing! The red looks very nice IMO, wouldn't change a thing. The red lines really pop, and compilment the red GTO badging.

Well done, and very jealous. :cheers


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## FNG69 (Nov 15, 2009)

Personally I would rather have the GTO decal on the Quarters in white...so far I have been out voted 10 to 1 

So whats ya all think .......Too much red ????? Bill[/QUOTE]

Make that 10 to 2, even this close you almost can't see or read the GTO!! Man you guys are doing a OUTSTANDING job...Les


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I know what you're sayin about white, but I'm not hating the red.
Those rims and tires look really nice on there! :cheers


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Looking great, Bill!

I would prefer the white GTO quarter decals, too. (10 to 3, but my opinion doesn't matter!)


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Car is a real beauty! Put me down for another vote for white decals, I like the contrast. :beer:


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

I just back from a quick vacation
Thanks to all for your replies on placement of GTO decal
Also for the positive comments
Looks like the red will stay for awhile .....



Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Brent got the QA1s set to where he wants her to sit.
The front tires rub  on the front of the fender well when backing up and turning at the same time. If you turn the wheel before you back up then they don't rub.
We may have to lower the front a bit more. Thinking is by lowering it a smidge the diameter of the tire will be smaller where it is to the fender. By raising the front to clear we would need to raise it maybe as much as 2".
If the car didn't have w/o moldings it probably wouldn't rub at all, probably could roll the edge of the molding to get it to clear but only want to do that as a last resort.
Had a alignment done on Tuesday, I had a chance to take it for a quick spin that afternoon, it drives and handles awesome... not like a car 40 some years old. 





Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Looks awesome, Bill!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Man that's nice!!

Are those the Year One wheels?


Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys

Rims are from YO
9s on rear, 8s on front
We would have liked to have 9s on the front but.....
probably would of had to go with 45 or even 40 series tires, we didn't want that 
look, this ain't no rice burner 

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi all

Last week a gentlemen picked up the goat to see if he could get rid of some of the ping and look into why the vacuum advance wasn't working.
He found a ball bearing plugging the vacuum line.He figured someone did that so they could advance or retard the timing to try and get rid of the ping.
He rebuilt the quadrajet, he said the carb is off of a 70.
We had a new clutch installed when they put the drive train back in but some thing wasn't right. We asked him to check it out to see what he thought. 
He had to end up tooling a couple pieces that where worn out on the clutch linkage. 
He brought the car back to us on Saturday, she runs a lot better than before.
Still has a little ping at start of hard acceleration but not near as bad as before, he said he could get rid of the ping completely but then it diesels when you turn it off.
This guy has a 70 YS block, crank, and #13 heads he said we could have for favors.
We are thinking maybe get this block and take our time....as Brents money allows... building a 400+ hp engine that will run on pump gas.

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Need some "HELP" Got oil pressure questions.
About 3 weeks ago the engine started puffing blue smoke. You really see it on start up and on deceleration. 
First time I noticed it was when I was following Brent to a car show...every time he shifted there was a puff of blue smoke. We took the car to a shop to have it checked out. 
They did a let down test and that went well. 
They did a oil pressure test and at warm idle it is running 55 psi, when under load the oil gauge on the car is pegged. The Pcv system checked out good.
Besides a high volume oil pump or a plugged pcv what else could be causing the high oil pressure ...we replaced the sending unit twice just to make sure that wasn't the problem
Engine is not spewing oil out any where, I checked the plugs and they look good, at least I thought so ?

Should we try replacing the valve seals ?
What about the high oil pressure
We got other questions for you all.....but for now....one thing at a time :seeya:


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*?'s*

Valve seals are the normal culprit for blue puffs when shifting, but that oil pressure thing is disturbing. What oil are you running? What kind of vacuum is it pulling? What is your timing set at (for the pinging)? Maybe compression is too high for pump gas? Lots of variables to consider.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We are running 10/40 oil.
The vacuum is something we have got to figure out. The guy we had look at it the last time said he thinks the carb should be ported for vacuum but is not.
Some one else told us he thought the carb was off a 70, I have the # at home and will post that later.
This is what the tech told me.....mind ya this guy is in his 60s so hes been around for a while.
Timing- vacuum advance was plugged into hard vacuum @ idle timing was 40, he removed the vac and set timing @ 12BTDC. Car starts and runs a lot better now but still has a bing but not as bad as it was.
When Brent bought the car the vacuum was disconnected, the shop that put the engine back in hooked the vacuum back up. Now we have it disconnected again. We where never in this engine so we have no idea what it is running as far as cam, compression ratio, or what kind of oil pump it is running.
We need to get this vacuum figured out.
A friend of mine has a bone stock original 69 GTO I was going to look at the vacuum system, but it is a auto and factory 2 barrel car, don't know if that would make any difference or not. 
We just got a service manual, but I don't know how much that dwells into the vacuum system. Going start reading this weekend
He checked the pcv and that was good.
When Brent bought the car we never noticed the oil pressure being that high, but during the body resto we had all the gauges rebuilt. 
I would guess the oil pressure was always that high and until we had the gauges rebuilt we probably where not getting a true reading.

Bill


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*pick your tune*

Sounds like your technician might have been a Chevy man. Totally different methodology than what we need here, in Pontiacland. I was a Chevy/Cadillac man in the dark, distant past and figured the Pontiac would be a cake walk. Not in the slightest bit. Had to go through a HUGE learning curve to educate myself in the fine arts of Pontiacness. A valve adjustment may be in order (for the pinging/clattering, at least, if that's a problem), and may do wonders for you. It helped me immensely in that department. You need to start from square one, component assessment, it sounds like (tuning wise). Might have to run 100 octane or so if the c/r is very high. These guys here have the vast powers of the Pontiac deities at their fingertips, and will guide you if you can't find a real Pontiac man.


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Bill,
What is the two-letter engine code on that block? (at the front of the block, near the top of the block face just below the passenger side cylinder head). A 1969 400 with #62 heads and the OEM pistons/cam/heads would have a static compression ration of between 10.25:1 to 10.75:1. 

If the engine/heads/cam were not changed to accommodate today's fuels, you might not be able to fix this issue without changing the heads to a larger chamber head or machining reliefs in the pistons to drop the CR...or you'll be stuck running 104 or higher octane fuel in that thing forever.

Couple of pieces of info for vacuum advance:

First, I have found this article by Jim Hand to be very helpful:
Changing the Advance Curve on HEI Distributors

And here are a few of my thoughts:
1. The 1968 distributor was a one-year wonder, with a dual vacuum advance canister for emissions purposes. It had an advance and a RETARD function, controlled by a pair of thermal vacuum switch and a vacuum module. If you have a 68 distributor, this is all in the Service Manual. If you're using a 69 distributor, it's just a "normal" advance unit.
Funny that you mention the ball bearing; I used a small ball bearing to plug the vacuum retard hose on my last 68 to defeat the retard function. 

2. You should probably ignore the vacuum advance at this point and "start over" by determining the optimal TOTAL timing for your engine. Check with that experienced guy who did the recent work; he may have already done this. It will probably be between 34 and 36 degrees, "all in" by 3400RPM (many recommend having all the advance in earlier, but I think 3400 is a conservative point for a "driver"). Set the distributor up and clamp it down at the point where it delivers the max timing. Then, your initial timing will end up wherever it ends up, based on the weights and center plate in that distributor. If your current distributor won't allow you to set the initial timing at a point where the engine still starts easily when hot, then you need to get the distributor re-curved so it will do what you need. (Back to the Jim hand article!)

3. THEN, you can re-connect the vacuum advance and experiment with different canisters and/or ported vacuum vs manifold vacuum to give you the driveability and operating characteristics you want at high vacuum operating situations (cruise and light/part throttle).


NOTE:
If you are trying to use an HEI distributor, you will find that the advance curves are probably WAY different than what your engine needs. In my limited experience, I found that HEI distributors had to be re-curved to suit the requirements of an earlier engine that has been modified even slightly.

My 68 and 69 engines both are happier with full manifold vacuum vs of ported vacuum. I set the timing with the vacuum advance canister disconnected and the vacuum source plugged. Each engine is different, so I think this will take some experimentation.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys
Hey Joe
Looking at the service manual looks like our distributor is a 69 that was converted to no points with a pertronix coil, been thinking about stepping up to the pertronix d 1200 dist. any thoughts on that.
Tried to pickup a timing light yesterday, only have 2 parts stores in town, neither one had one, I ordered one on line.
Going try changing out the valve seals on our own, any suggestion on kind or brand ?
I did find a valve spring compressor, although I had to order a air line adapter for holding up the valves.
Like I have said before, I never claimed to be a mechanic, but hopefully i aint too old to learn at least a few tricks.
Once these tools start showing up I am afraid I may be asking a butt load of questions.

Thanks again guys 

Bill


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*engine nomenclature*

Did you get the dial back timing light, or do you have a timing tape on the balancer? (Either way is o.k.- but a regular timing light is of little value, here). That is important. If you use the compressed air method for changing the seals, then a regular spring compressor probably won't work, unless it has an attachment so you can connect it to the rocker arm studs. Not sure about the seals, as I pulled my heads, and the seals came with the head kit. Do you have any idea of the condition of the heads, valves, guides, and all, or are you going blind into it? Someone here will know what the best seals are for you. You should want a distributor with the vacuum advance on it, or if not, it HAS to be curved internally to your application- the one you have might be fine, just need to change the advance springs to get the proper curve. (This is where that dial back timing light will come in REAL handy!). (Most all I've read says you really SHOULD have a vacuum advance on a street driven car. the ones without are mostly for the strip and track). Follow these guys' recommendations for adjusting the valves. You'll be glad you did!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Going in blind is a understatement:confused

Timing light we ordered is digital with advance ....what ever that means 
The distributor we are looking at has a adjustable vacuum.
We figured we have nothing to lose.....well maybe some time......
by replacing the valve seals ourself. 
If it still puff smoke after that we will pull the engine and do a complete rebuild this winter. 
Should have done that in the first place but we took the POs word that engine had been rebuilt recently.


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*Keep on chuggin'...*

Well, if the engine gave you some blue at start up, (and when shifting), then it is a very good indicator of faulty valve seals. You should have seen mine on start up. We're talking heavy duty blue! If you pulled the car out of the garage immediately after start up, it would take about 15 minutes to clear the stank out with 2 fans going and both doors opened. Sounds like you got a good timing light. The adjustable vacuum can makes life a might easier. I like the adjustable one on mine. You can play with it to dial it in to suit your vacuum needs. You will need a reliable tach also (one that reads over 3,000 rpm). Sounds like you're well on your way! Seals should be cheap. I used the "o" rings AND guide seals (Amazingly, I was able to install the guide seals without modifying the tops!). No smoke whatsoever- EVER. (Well, except for the blackish smoke which emits from the tires, when driven "imprudently"!)


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Nothing like taking a step backwards
After taking Brent's goat to 3 different mechanics we got tired of throwing good money after bad:confused We decided to replace the valve seals on our own....they had already been changed over to positive seals previously.
She still smokes 
I did a compression check.....should have done that in the first place and saved my self some grief.
Seven cylinders where between 160-170 #5 was 85.... Got the same reading 3 times
We should have gone thru the engine during the resto process but...........

Started pulling the engine this weekend at home.....
Damn !!.......I wish I had a lift at home.

Oh Well 
At least now when we are done we will know what we got


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Man! What a bummer that all that effort went in to a dead cylinder! Hindsight is 20/20, or as my military doc used to call it the "retrospectoscope" at least you figured it out and still have a gorgeous ride!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

FlambeauHO said:


> Man! What a bummer that all that effort went in to a dead cylinder! Hindsight is 20/20, or as my military doc used to call it the "retrospectoscope" at least you figured it out and still have a gorgeous ride!


Thanks

Should of, could of, would of......oh well 

We will get there sooner or later :rofl:
Will keep you all up to snuff on the engine build and look forward to any and all advice arty:

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

So, what's the plan, Bill?
461 stroker, aluminum heads and 550 ft.lbs torque?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

jmt455 said:


> So, what's the plan, Bill?
> 461 stroker, aluminum heads and 550 ft.lbs torque?


Hi Joe
Considering the rebuild budget just got thrown under the bus, at this point any thing is possible.
But yea, we would like to stroke it to a 461 and aluminum heads seem to make a lot of sense especially if you want to run pump gas. 
Brent and I got the engine out tonight, it actually went pretty well, considering the last one I pulled was in my Corvette 30 some years ago.arty:
Going to contact tomorrow the boys that are going to build the engine. Once they get it torn down and come up with a plan and a estimate we will know more.
Will keep you all updated and any advice will be greatly appreciated
Brent and I are just a couple of fender benders...rebuilding a engine ain't our expertise 

Bill


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Just read this entire thread, great work guys! The car looks great! I have to admit the red rear quarter sticker looks good but I'm with you Dad I'd use white for myself. 

Sorry to see you are having engine trouble but after you are done it will be 100% redone and your son won't have to worry about it ever again!!!

I wish him many happy miles in his new ride! Dan


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Yea I know, stupid time to stop and take a photo


After we installed the ram air manifolds last spring we had a bad vibration in the pedals, especially the clutch, also a rather annoying racket whenever you would step on the throttle. I thought maybe I knew what it was, this confirms what I thought it was. I noticed when we reinstalled the pivot arm...or what ever it is called...for the clutch to the block there wasn't a whole lot of clearance.
Probably have to take a grinder to the manifold to give it more clearance, hope there is enough metal there.


The guys doing the rebuild are picking up the engine this coming Saturday
Should know more next week after they get it apart

Bill


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Tell them you want a balanced rotating assembly and the cam degreed.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Just got a call from the guys doing the engine.
#5 had a cracked ring land. 
PO had a different cam installed and whoever put it in had it lined up wrong. 
According to my guys that's what was causing the pinging issues.
Luckily the cylinder wall wasn't damaged, engine was bored 40 over on the previous rebuild.
Honing is all that would be needed for this rebuild.
That sound right ? 

Brent and I are meeting with the rebuilders this aft.
Should know more later

Bill


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Honing could be all that's needed if the cylinder size and taper are within spec.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We meet up with the boys doing the build on Brent's engine...or I should say I went along for the ride. 
Brent and the rebuilder discussed his options for a hour.
They showed us a photo of the timing chain gears.
The dots where off by 3 teeth, whatever that means.
They said the engine probably had really good low end torque up to about 2500 rpm then would fall off drastically after that because of the way the cam had been installed, and they where right about that. The performance after 3000 rpms was lackluster to say the least.
Good news is the block and crank are good
They gave Brent 3 different bids on builds.
First one is building it to pretty much stock but keeping compression at 9.5 to 1
Second was going with edelbrock heads pumping up compression to 10 to 1 and going with a aluminum intake
And the 3rd bid was for let's just say .......the full meal deal.......
stroked, edelbrock round port heads, aluminum intake, roller cam, 850 carb
They did warn my son that if he went with the 3rd option the tranny and rear end should hold up just fine as long as he didn't put on sticky tires.
They couldn't give us any hard #s as far as hp, they said give or take 50, but they did say that torque should be up over 600 ft lbs
They are getting us a list of components for the builds, will try to post them later

Brent has decisions to make


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## 2006GOAT_GTO (Aug 7, 2013)

Damn I read this entire post and I'm loving the progress. I'd go for the third option if I were Brent. But that's just me. Haha would love to have a 68-70 goat. Ill just settle with my 06 for now haha

~Brent O'Meara


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Felt almost like Christmas last weekend...well except for it weren't free.
Builder called, some of the engine stuff showed up on Friday arty:


Well Brent decided on option 3, the stroker route. Some of the stuff so pretty...damn near a shame to have to cover it up inside a block.









Cam and carburetor have not shown yet. This is the cam they came up with.
I have no idea what the Saturday night special means  


Carb they ordered is a Quick Fuel 830 cfm....I never heard of one, builder said he has used them before and really likes em.

Looks like the only thing used off the old engine is the block and oil pan 
Too late to turn back now :lol:

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Brent went out yesterday to take a peek at his engine.
Builders got the short block pretty much put back together.

Thought I would throw up a few photos of the progress.










The boys building the engine are really excited about the build as are we, They want to help us put it back in the car and get it running right 
Brent has a few things coming for it yet.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Drool :beer:


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Oh, baby!


Party under the hood!arty:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh baby..... be still my heart! 

:cheers

Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Getting a wee bit closer every day ......tho at my age that saying could be a 2 edged sword:lol:




























Brent's got some new valve covers , water pump, exhaust manifolds and a few other odds and ends coming yet before it can go back in the car

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Hope it runs even better than it looks!


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## Piedog (Feb 14, 2013)

Drop dead gorgeous like the rest of the car. I wanna ride. Promise not to pee myself (at least outta my depends)!


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Looks like you've got all the parts for a strong runner!:cool

Sub'n for results. 

Curious as to what pistons those are and compression ratio?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

ALKYGTO said:


> Looks like you've got all the parts for a strong runner!:cool
> 
> Sub'n for results.
> 
> Curious as to what pistons those are and compression ratio?


Looking at the list of parts of the original build estimate, it shows pistons as Icon premium forged. Don't know if that is exactly what ended up in it but will find out.
Builder calculated the compression to be right around 10 to 1.
There is a local garage that has a dyno and the boys doing the build do all there machine work, so we are hoping to get some numbers and get it dialed in sometime later this winter.

Bill


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## 68GTOLSX (Nov 16, 2013)

That looks great! I've used the quick fuel carb before, I used a 750 street strip carb with no choke and it was fantastic out of the box!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

We got a question for all of you.
Builder said we should probably upgrade the clutch.
Need a new one anyways cause the old man bent some of the fins on the pressure plate removing the engine, we split the block from the bell housing on removal 
Going be running stock flywheel. Brent does not plan on running the car on the strip or installing slicks.
Builder suggested a Ram Powergrip prt # 98760 from Summit also a new pilot bushing or bearing ?
Getting confused the more we look online, don't want to order the wrong parts.
68 is a 10.5" clutch right ? :confused. 

Thanks 
Bill & Brent


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

I've had a Centerforce duel friction in mine for over 10 years, no problems at all and the pedal feel is not bad either. If you change the clutch, inspect the flywheel for heat stress cracks and have it turned to remove them. Good luck finding a place that has a machine big enough to turn it though, I ended up going to a place that services semi trucks


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

With Alkys help we where able to get the engine mounted on the stand 
Doing some mock ups while access is easy, trying to figure out the cleanest looking route for the wiring harness. With the new heads and round port manifolds there is no room between manifold and head for the wires that feed the starter. Looks like we may have enough wire to run it around the back side of the l head and under the exhaust manifold, what have you guys done ??
At this point we ain't concerned about how it came out of the factory

We got a ton of question, for now I got just a couple.
Looking to replace the behemoth starter with a high torque mini, where and what brand do y'all use ??
When we pulled engine we left the bell housing and tranny in the car. I can see a problem....especially with my mechanical skills....of trying to reinstall engine the same way.
I think we are going to pull the tranny and housing. What's the possibility of install engine and tranny "manual trans " as one unit??
Couple of shots of it at home again 





































Bill


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

There is a tube that mounts to the back drivers side manifold bolt and routes around the pipe, factory had a asbestos sleeve that went inside also. I think my mini is a torquemaster and it works great and helps with any heat sink and gives the wires a little more wiggle room for mounting. Engine and trans can be mounted as one but its tight and sometimes more trouble and gyrations than just mounting trans first and dropping the block into the pins and mounts.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Instg8ter said:


> There is a tube that mounts to the back drivers side manifold bolt and routes around the pipe, factory had a asbestos sleeve that went inside also. I think my mini is a torquemaster and it works great and helps with any heat sink and gives the wires a little more wiggle room for mounting. Engine and trans can be mounted as one but its tight and sometimes more trouble and gyrations than just mounting trans first and dropping the block into the pins and mounts.


Thank guys
While we went with the Ram clutch, of course don't have it in yet.
Brent ended up ordering a RobbMc mini starter mainly cause you can easily pivot it to where you need it plus it's made in the good old USA.

While I was under the car I noticed the tail shaft seal on the tranny is leaking...just had the tranny gone through supposedly when we where doing the restoration.....Brent also said tranny popped out of 1st and 4th gear a few times after getting everything back together last spring 

Transmission laying on the floor now, we pulled it last weekend going try to find someone to look at it while the car is down...getting tired of doing things twice over.
Also noticed the front shaft of the tranny when you grap it can be moved around a little as in side to side, up and down. Not much but a little,is that normal ? I am guessing not It's a muncie M20. 

Also one of the front calibers started leaking  it's a 4 piston caliber 
Thinking about swapping them out for a single piston 69 caliber, anyone one done that ?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Been in a holding pattern, waiting for a few things for the engine, tranny, and drive line before we put everything back together.
Had a 3 day weekend and with the sideways rain all 3 days thought it might be a good time to tackle painting the rims.
We never liked the gray inserts on the YO 17" rallyes.
This is one of those jobs you can't get in a hurry. I grabbed a bar stool to sit on, made up a table that was just the right height and went to work.
After 3 days and more than just a few "brews" we got them done.

This was the tedious part..the masking 






While Buck..that be my pup..could care less, we are liking them painted black.


Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Wheels look GREAT, Bill!

Any recent progress on the engine installation?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Most of the Disc brake conversion kits are based on the single piston calipers off the 70+ models, simple and reliable. Buck seems to like his cardboard, wheels look great.


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## Orion88 (Apr 24, 2012)

bondobill said:


> With Alkys help we where able to get the engine mounted on the stand
> Doing some mock ups while access is easy, trying to figure out the cleanest looking route for the wiring harness. With the new heads and round port manifolds there is no room between manifold and head for the wires that feed the starter. Looks like we may have enough wire to run it around the back side of the l head and under the exhaust manifold, what have you guys done ??
> At this point we ain't concerned about how it came out of the factory
> 
> ...


Bill, how difficult was it to get your spark plug wires so perfect? I replaced mine when I did a head swap while I was still driving it and they don't look all that great. Before I put my engine on the frame I wanted to replace or shorten them to get them nice and perfect like yours. Do you have wiggle room for timing adjustments?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks guys
Hey Joe you been on vacation again? The engine install keeps getting side tracked. Progressing as Brents funds allow. 
We ended up pulling the tranny back out, developed a leak at the rear seal. Thanks to the help of gtoguy I think we got that figured out, waiting for a seal and bushing for the tailshaft, also a slip yoke for the drive line, as you can guess the old yoke took out the new seal and bushing that where installed last year.
Brent ordered a new billet flywheel...was a little concerned about the old one coming apart at 6000 rpms.... hopefully that should be here next week along with the Wilwood brake kit for the front.
The RobbMc starter showed up the other day so thats one less thing to worry about. For my sons sake I am hoping this will do it for a while anyways. And I thought we were done last summer 
The plug wires were done by the engine builder, so we can't take credit for that.

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

bondobill wrote: "Hey Joe you been on vacation again?"

I'm ALWAYS on vacation! 
Been working on the 32 Ford truck this winter, as well as doing some volunteer work on the "EyesOn Design" show.

But for the past week I've been doing just about nothing. Injured my knee playing hockey last week; won't know how bad the damage is until after the MRI next week.

Getting pretty tired of forced inactivity...I can hear all my projects calling me to the garage!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Geez Joe.....Hockey.. at your age you ought to know better :yesnod:
I slipped on the ice last week in my parking lot at work but that wasn't by choice.:biggrin2:
Hope everything turns out ok for ya.....at our age it definitely takes us longer to pick ourself back up off the ground :blush:

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

bondobill said:


> Geez Joe.....Hockey.. at your age you ought to know better :yesnod:
> I slipped on the ice last week in my parking lot at work but that wasn't by choice.:biggrin2:
> Hope everything turns out ok for ya.....at our age it definitely takes us longer to pick ourself back up off the ground :blush:
> 
> Bill



You sound like my wife, Bill! LOL

MRI on Monday, then another visit with the orthopedic surgeon on Tuesday. Hoping the ACL is not torn. I'm going NUTS!:willy::willy:


But back to the car: Engine looks sweet! When is it going back where it belongs?


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## SCG Pontiac (Feb 23, 2014)

Bill you and Brent are doing a fantastic job on that GTO. Engine looks awesome, just a quick note. From the picture it looks like the vibration damper is the original. It's hard to tell because it is painted. If it is the original do yourself a BIG favor and install a new damper. A lot of builders think these things last forever and sometimes they do but not always. If you have never seen one fail at 6,000 rpm you have missed a very exciting and expensive ride. They are cheap insurance on the end of that brand new crankshaft. Nice job


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm loving wathcing this build :lurk:

You guys are doing great work and you've got my mouth watering over those wheels. You're going to love the RobbMc starter, and the support/service you'll get from him if you ever have problems. One thing you might consider, is buying a "back up" starter so the car won't have to be "down" if you ever do need to send it back to him because although he's quick, thorough, and more than fair - it does take some time for shipping and stuff. I've got a Summitt house brand mini-starter I caught on sale and picked up just for that purpose. There's not enough room to R/R a factory starter with my headers and Moroso oil pan, otherwise one of those would also have been a good option for that purpose.

My car also orignally routed the power to the starter down the side of the block and through the manifolds. With the headers, I used a much longer cable and ran it down the front of the block near the fuel pump, then back along the side of the oil pan rail to the starter. I didn't use one of the HO cable tubes, I just wrapped it with some foil coated heat wrap fabric and made sure that part of the cable run didn't have enough slack to let the cable droop and get caught up in anything. It's been trouble-free, including driving it over 2300 miles on the Power Tour this past summer.

Bear

Bear


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Bear....altho I must admit this build is getting a little long in the tooth 

Brent and I had a half of Sat. to at least try to get his engine back in.

Brent installing Ram clutch








In spite of the two of us just being a couple of "fender benders"...we managed to get it back on the motor mounts w/o screwing anything up :lol:

Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

After I gave up trying to line up the tranny :cuss: Brent took over.....



Yep he got it :cheers
There's a lot to be said for youth over experience :biggrin2:

Bill


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Lining up the trans is a PITA. I have done it twice on my car, the first time I was aroung 30 y.o., but I was on a gravel driveway with a rock squarely on my shoulder blade and the trans sitting on my chest. Took me about 5 times to get the splines lined up. The second time I was on conrete which was much better, but I was 45 y.o. and my arms gave out after two tries, so I had to rest it on my chest until I regained strength, then it slide right on the third time.
Hopefully now you guys have all the bugs worked out and it's just cruising times from now on.


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## SCG Pontiac (Feb 23, 2014)

That is one sharp looking engine you've got there guys


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

This car is gonna be sooooooo Sexy!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

SCG Pontiac said:


> Bill you and Brent are doing a fantastic job on that GTO. Engine looks awesome, just a quick note. From the picture it looks like the vibration damper is the original. It's hard to tell because it is painted. If it is the original do yourself a BIG favor and install a new damper. A lot of builders think these things last forever and sometimes they do but not always. If you have never seen one fail at 6,000 rpm you have missed a very exciting and expensive ride. They are cheap insurance on the end of that brand new crankshaft. Nice job



Thanks SCG 
The vibration damber is new :yesnod:along with the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate.
Today we ran misc. lines, got fuel filter, alternator, power steering pump, fan and radiator installed 
Was one of those days when you stand back at the end of the day to see what you got done......:rolleyes2::rolleyes2:
Oh well...there is always tomorrow :laugh:


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Sorry about the rotten videos and sound but........
we got the goat started tonight :smile2:
Ty and Mike...the builders..... came over to give us a hand starting her

As the video shows...I weren't ready for it to fire in the first 3 cranks
:jawDrop:
First start up



Anyways she runs and sounds sweet...need to finsh up a few things before we can get her out for a drive.
We are getting close

Bill


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## Joe'sToy (Mar 9, 2012)

So sweet! Nice job guy's.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Car hasn't been out much since we got the engine back in. Lots of rain last couple of weeks plus we had some shifter linkage issues. Think we got the linkage problem resolved and the weather looks like it is starting to come around
Had some time to tackle a couple minor things to the car in the mean time. Pulled the front bumper, had some swelling from all the repairs we had done to it....bugged the heck out of me....bumper back on the car now all better.
Brent didn't like listening to the fire extinguisher rolling around in the glove box so I had to find somewhere to mount it without drilling any holes. I had some 1/2" thick Starboard lying around, I used the 2 inside screws for the front seat trim for the mounting points




























Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Sounds sweet, Bill.
I bet you guys are anxious to get some seat time in that beauty!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi Joe
I have not had a chance to drive it yet, rode in it the first night out, then the tranny got hung up in 3rd gear. I think maybe we got that problem figured out....had to steal some parts off a Hurst linkage I took off my Vette 30 some years ago... I never throw any thing away
We need to get 300 miles on the break in oil then change the oil and the builder wants to cut the oil filter apart then . In the mean time he wants us to stay out of the carbs secondary while driving as much as possible . If everything looks good after the oil change the goat goes on a dyno for some fine tuning
If this rain keeps up it might be Sept before we get 300 miles on her

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

If I had to keep out of the secondaries, I would lock them out so I couldn't get carried away.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

jmt455 said:


> If I had to keep out of the secondaries, I would lock them out so I couldn't get carried away.


Boy that would be a tease to stay off the throttle! Looking great!

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Well here we go again !!

Started pulling the interior tonight for the upgrade from a M20 to 5 speed from Silver Sport Transmission


















Hopefully everything goes well 


Bill


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

After a whole lot of cluster....'s :cryin: which I
"may" divulge later  we finally finished modifying the tranny tunnel for the install of the TKO 600 Perfect fit 5 speed transmission






Hopefully we will have her back on the road in the next couple of weeks


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Finished putting the interior last night.
With the modification to the tunnel we where concerned about how well the center console would fit. Another concern was if we would still have room for the 8 track housing which holds the stereo.


It fits. Actually with every thing back in place you can't tell that anything was messed with.

It was too late to take her out for a spin last night...11pm before we finished up. Will try her out this weekend.

Bill


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Nice clean installation Bill. :thumbsup:

One question...I thought the "perfect fit" trans was supposed to install with no cutting? That looks like the same tunnel mods I had to make to install my TKO. I will say however that you will find all the work and :banghead: :cuss: :erm: :boxing_smiley: will be worth it the first time you get on the freeway and hit fifth gear.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Alky

Yea, the "Perfect Fit" isn't so perfect.
I searched around on different forums about mods needed to the tunnel.
Mods ranged from minor hammering to what we had to end up doing.

I guess every car is a little different.


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi all
We got about 300 miles on the new tranny. Very happy with it so far
Some say shifting is a little notchy with the TKO, we don't find that to be the case. Shifts very smooth.
It does have a little bit of a rattle in neutral some times. When you put the clutch in the rattle goes away. Doesn't do it all the time.
We did a little research on the net about the rattle in neutral and found it to be a fairly common issue, some do it some don't. Its so minor we aint concerned about it, actually with the stereo on you cant even hear it.

When we did the install we changed out the clutch from a Ram power grip to a McLeod twin disc. We are very happy with the McLeod. 
I think a 5 year old would have no problem pushing the clutch peddle to the floor. 

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Glad to hear it's back on the road, Bill!


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks Joe !!
We are hoping to get thru one summer with out any issues
So far so good :biggrin2:

How's that wagon coming along ?

Bill


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Bill,
Unfortunately, progress on the 58 wagon has been glacial.
We were gone for several weeks this winter and since our return in mid-March, we have had my daughter, son-in-law, 2 year old grandson and dog living with us while the house they purchased is getting some upgrades.

It's been exciting and I've had many opportunities to hone my carpentry, plumbing and electrical skills!

They are moving into their home tomorrow, so I should be able to get back on the wagon soon.

I DID manage to deliver the engine to the builder and the engine is at the machine shop now. I also got all the under-hood sheet metal blasted and powder-coated. I'll be posting an update soon.

Joe


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Jeez Joe.....your supposed to be retired :wink2:

That wagon I sent you the photos of drew a lot of attention from my customers while it was at the shop. I don't know how many Buick built but they are definitely a eye catcher

Good luck and look forward to its progress

Bill


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## Shake-N-Bake (Jun 16, 2015)

Nice build. Great thread. Thanks for sharing. Lots of helpful info here. Did you happen to take any pics showing how the shifter hole in the floor gets sealed?


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## bondobill (Oct 24, 2011)

Thought I would give you all a little up on the goat.
We made it through this summer....first time in 3 summers.... with out any problems with the car:smile2:
You may remember that the first summer after the restoration the motor went gunny bags. Then last summer we kept having issues with the Munchie 4sp.

After rebuilding the 400 and replacing the 4 sp with a TKO 600 I think we finally got all the bugs out of her.......tho I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Brents been on vacation the last couple of weeks and seeings how he stores the car in my shop at home....which wont be for much longer cause he is building a shop with a 1500 sq foot apartment up stairs on a couple of acres he owns........I had a chance to take the car out last week end.
"Man oh man" it is a fun car to drive. Felt like I was 18 again. All the sweat and cussing are behind us hopefully.

Also want to thank you all on here for your knowledge and advice during the build, with out your help I really don't know what we would have ended up with. 

Thanks again





Bill


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

FANTASTIC!!!!!:cheers


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

It looks awesome, Bill!
Glad to hear it was a trouble-free summer!


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## Mainlin (Jul 21, 2014)

I just read through the whole thing. Awesome job. Lots of good info too.


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## anotherls1 (Mar 28, 2016)

i will be using this build for reference on my current project, it seems like you guys know what the hell youre doing over there!


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