# Water pump fun



## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

So I set out to switch out the water pump on my '69 yesterday. One of the gaskets was leaking a bit, and I figured since it was coming apart, I might as well change out the 20+ year old pump while I was at it. What a pain it has turned into.
After soaking the bolts down with liquid wrench and letting them soak, I started removing them. Second one I came to wouldn't budge. Since I didn't want to break it off, I soaked it again and skipped it. Had to repeat the process on a total of 4 bolts. Even after soaking them 3 times, all 4 ended up breaking off. 
Since after the pump and spacer was removed, the broken bolts were sticking out from the timing cover, I figured I would try heating up the cover a little and turn them with vice grips. I soaked them all about every 3 hours since yesterday afternoon trying to loosen them up. Total fail on that attempt. So now I get to remove the timing cover as well, since I don't want to try to drill and easy out the bolts while on the engine. 
The two blots below the water pump came loose easily enough. The largest socket I have is a 7/8, and the bolt holding the balancer on is bigger than that. So now I'm waiting for a buddy to stop by with bigger sockets. I called my local O'reilly Auto and they had to overnight a set of timing cover gaskets in for me. 
*
Is there anything else holding the cover on?* I know I need to remove the fuel pump or the lines and the hose coming off the passenger side. 

The best part is if this had happened on either my or my wife's daily drivers, it would really annoy the crap out of me. But since it's on the Goat, it really doesn't. It just means more time spent in the garage with my baby.


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## 67GTOCoupe (Mar 6, 2013)

As a person who has spent the last 30 years turning wrenches your is not an uncommom problem. Old Ford V-8 water pump bolts are almost a gurantee to snap off every single time. Heat is always a good alternative just as long as you make 100% sure that there is nothing in the area made of rubber or plastic first!
I have found vice grips almost 100% useless in removing bolts with the heads broken off. If you have the cash to spend on tools your best bet is to get a set of good quality stud removers. I have had great luck removing broken bolts with them just as long as there is enough of the bolt prodruding out. If you are not familiar with them this is what they look like.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes - there are 4 bolts on the bottom front of the oil pan that tie the oil pan to the timing cover. Those will have to come out along with the 6 bolts on the front (4 near the water pump, two "down low"). Usually at least one of the upper ones is a stud that stays in the block once you remove the nut.

Also, if you haven't already - make sure you drain the cooling system first. Once you crack open the timing cover the coolant is going to spill down the front of the block and into the oil pan. If you're not positive that you've kept all the coolant out of your oil, plan on an oil+filter change before you fire the motor the next time.

Be aware that the timing cover bolt requires 160 lb. ft. to torque down properly. You'll have to immobilize the crank in order to remove the bolt and also to re-install it. Best way I've found is to remove the transmission dust cover underneath the flywheel/flex-plate and latch a big pair of vice-grips onto the ring gear up next to the block (in the direction of rotation - loosening or tightening) to hold the crank.

When reinstalling the balancer - DO NOT HAMMER IT ON. You'll mess up the thrust surfaces on the main bearing, then you'll get to pull the engine and replace the main bearings. If the balancer is a little tight on the crank you'll want to thread a long bolt into the front of the crank, put a nut on it and then a plate between the nut and the face of the balancer -use the nut to push the balancer back onto the crank. Make sure you've got the keyway lined up properly. It turns out that the threads on my balancer puller work to do this on my car, so I can just thread the puller rod into the crank, turn the puller body around so that the flat side faces the balancer, and push it on that way.

While you've got the cover off, might as well go ahead and replace the seal around the balancer.

Also be careful when pulling the cover. The bottom two bolt holes on the front are supposed to have sleeves in them that fit into both the block and the cover. Their purpose is to align the cover so that the balancer hub is perfectly centered in the seal so the hub doesn't wear out the seal on one side and cause it to leak. When you remove the cover, sometimes they'll stay in the block, sometimes they'll come off with the cover, sometimes they'll fall free - down into the oil pan. Go slow and be careful. 

Good luck!

Bear


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks for the great info. I love this site lol. 

The 4 upper bolts go through the water pump too, right? Because the water pump is already off the timing cover.

When replacing the broken bolts, should I use grade 8 or grade 5 bolts, or doesn't it really matter?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Grade 5 is plenty good enough. If you have to tighten them enough to need grade 8 to get it to seal, something's wrong.

Bear


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

So in the process of removing the timing cover, I realized my flywheel dust cover was missing. I'm looking for a replacement, and can anyone tell me if this is what I need? Thanks.

1961-1972 GTO - Torque Converter Cover, Universal GM universal | OPGI.com


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Never-sez all bolts when reinstalling. Use Stainless as well if you can. I even never-sez the drain plug on the radiator. Bolts are still tight and not loose.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Also, I think Mr. Bear meant 160 ft lbs of torque for the _Harmonic balancer bolt_, NOT the timing cover bolts!!! If you try to tighten the timing cover much more than about 15 or 20 foot pounds, you're in for a broken bolt/stripped block party.


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

Yeah, I looked at the service manual for the torque specs. Anyone with any input on the flywheel cover:?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

The flywheel cover is just sheet metal and held in place with screws torqued screwdriver tight. Some cars have hex head screws, some slot heads. No worries there...


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## 67GTOCoupe (Mar 6, 2013)

I have a brand new torque converter cover in the stash of parts that came with my recent 67 purchase. I have not grabbed the GM number off of it to see what the application of this particular cover is. I can take a look to see if it is what you need if you can not locate one near you. It is not uncommon for them to be missing from most older GM cars. Either from being knocked off or someone being just to lazy to put it back on.


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

Sounds good, let me know. I think they're all the same as long as the starter is on the same side. The only replacements I could find that weren't super expensive were like this plastic one........

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-743866/


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## 67GTOCoupe (Mar 6, 2013)

This is the cover that I have. Unfortunataly the part of the label with the part number on it has been ripped off but according to the GM parts book all Pontiac's V-8 engine 64-75 use the same cover. part number which is part number 497641. I am not sure if they were ever made out of steel for the TH-400 but as you can see from the picture this one has a cut out for the starter on the left side so it will definetely fit a Pontiac TH-400.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

etewald said:


> So in the process of removing the timing cover, I realized my flywheel dust cover was missing. I'm looking for a replacement, and can anyone tell me if this is what I need? Thanks.
> 
> 1961-1972 GTO - Torque Converter Cover, Universal GM universal | OPGI.com


The original one was tin. And I would use the anti-seeze on the entire length of the bolt, not just the threads.


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

So I ended up drilling and tapping all 4 broken off bolts. Went really smoothly. All set to put her back together tomorrow. 

One last question-in the service manual, it says when replacing the gasket between the timing cover and the oil pan, you should use gasket sealer to hold the gasket in place when installing the timing cover. Should I just use sealer over the whole gasket, or just in the corners where the bottom gasket and the gasket between the cover and block meet? Thanks again fellas.


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## etewald (Dec 27, 2011)

Got her all buttoned back up. No leaks and almost got all the air out of the system I think lol. Even managed to not get any coolant into the oil pan throughout the process. Slowly but surely, the old girl is getting ready for spring.


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