# Z bar hits the headers



## Indy1K (May 16, 2008)

I have a 65 4sp setup with a 68 400 in it. I have tried two different sets of headers and the Z bar hits the headers? Whats up with this.
The current set is from Summit. 
Also, the the rag coupler seems to be very close to the front pipe too.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Kevin


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Indy1K said:


> I have a 65 4sp setup with a 68 400 in it. I have tried two different sets of headers and the Z bar hits the headers? Whats up with this.
> The current set is from Summit.
> Also, the the rag coupler seems to be very close to the front pipe too.
> 
> ...


Kevin,

Not being a smart butt, but this is a common problem with Pontiacs. This topic has been covered a lot in other threads and if you do a search on headers, you will find all these assorted problems and fixes.

Higher priced headers like Doug's seem to work best, lower priced headers simply cause more grief. To fix, it boils down to use a big hammer to dent your header tube (s), cutting and rewelding the header pipes, or modifying the Z-bar and/or linkages.

With all the header headaches that seem to be "normal" when wanting to use headers on a Pontiac, you will find that many on the forums recommend the reproduction factory Ram Air cast iron exhaust manifolds with the over sized 2.5" outlets and a good set of mandrel bent pipes and free flowing mufflers for all but the really big HP engines. You lose little HP and save all the grief.:thumbsup:


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

I have doug's part # D564 headers on my '65. the best fitting header for your gto. no problems, no putting a hammer to them. you just have to use a smaller oil filter AC # PF61 instead of the stock filter. when shopping for headers, stay away from sets that the manufacturer claims covers a broad range of years. doug's are more specific to the year of the car. that makes it a better fitting header. don't settle for a set of half-assed fitting headers. id send them back if you can. good luck.


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## Indy1K (May 16, 2008)

Thanks Guys,
Since I already have the Pipes Stainless Exhaust system in the car, I will check out the Dougs headers, unless Pipes makes a downpipe for the Ramair manifolds. I heard that the stock manifolds do breathe very well too.
Kev


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## allpawl66 (May 9, 2008)

Indy1K said:


> I have a 65 4sp setup with a 68 400 in it. I have tried two different sets of headers and the Z bar hits the headers? Whats up with this.
> The current set is from Summit.
> Also, the the rag coupler seems to be very close to the front pipe too.
> 
> ...


Z-bar arm can cut off & moved inboard a tad for clearance does not affect pushrod adjuster , i have a modified one if needed .


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I have no personal experience with this brand, mind you, but I've heard that MadDog headers fit well. Home 
I'm running Doug's on my '69 (round port heads) and they fit "fair". It's an automatic car so no z-bar, but does have the back-drive linkage between the steering column lockout and the transmission (which I had to re-bend to get to fit). I also had to relocate the brake distribution block from the inside of the drivers side frame rail to the top for clearance, and one of the passenger side header tubes makes it impossible to remove one of the lower control arm pivot bolts without first loosening the header to move it out of the way. Standard size oil filters fit on my car.


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

if you go on u-tube and watch the jim wangers interview with the well preserved '65 4-speed royal bobcat, when they show the motor you will see a set of doug's headers mounted on the engine. real nice fit for a '65 4-speed.


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## the65gto (Oct 9, 2008)

Here is a link to the 65gto Royal bobcat interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFC5zYuQLk. I ordered a bobcat kit for my 65 gto and installed it. One of the items was a thinner head gasket. I was living in Michigan at the time and on a family trip, stopped in to Royal Pontiac and got Milt Schornack to look at my engine. When I raised the hood, the first thing Milt said to me was "you got the head gasket upside down". One side was metal looking and one side was copper looking. He thought a while and said "I guess it really doesn't make a difference. He got out his timing light, disconnected and plugged the vacuum to the distributor and gave me some more advance and said "try that" Today, thinking of who he was, and realizing that now is humbling. He went and gave me a new set of head gaskets and we drove off.

I ground off my "Z" bar and moved the arm and re-welded it to stop the "clank" when I pushed in the clutch. (the arm was hitting the header pipe). My rag joint nut also hit the header pipe, marked it and ground off one side so that it just clears the pipe. (It would hit the header pipe while turning). Then there is the short oil filter that has to be turned sideways to get it in/out. Oil runs on the headers. Relocated the brake fluid junction block. Can't wait to get my headers off and replaced with cast iron ones from ram air.


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

the65gto said:


> Here is a link to the 65gto Royal bobcat interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFC5zYuQLk. I ordered a bobcat kit for my 65 gto and installed it. One of the items was a thinner head gasket. I was living in Michigan at the time and on a family trip, stopped in to Royal Pontiac and got Milt Schornack to look at my engine. When I raised the hood, the first thing Milt said to me was "you got the head gasket upside down". One side was metal looking and one side was copper looking. He thought a while and said "I guess it really doesn't make a difference. He got out his timing light, disconnected and plugged the vacuum to the distributor and gave me some more advance and said "try that" Today, thinking of who he was, and realizing that now is humbling. He went and gave me a new set of head gaskets and we drove off.
> 
> I ground off my "Z" bar and moved the arm and re-welded it to stop the "clank" when I pushed in the clutch. (the arm was hitting the header pipe). My rag joint nut also hit the header pipe, marked it and ground off one side so that it just clears the pipe. (It would hit the header pipe while turning). Then there is the short oil filter that has to be turned sideways to get it in/out. Oil runs on the headers. Relocated the brake fluid junction block. Can't wait to get my headers off and replaced with cast iron ones from ram air.


don't know why your '65 would give you so many problems with doug's headers and my '65 none. no [email protected] the rag joint, no problems @ Z bar, no problems @ brake fluid junction block. i did have to remove 1 brake line clip on the passenger side that made contact with a tube. no big deal. not sure what oil filter your using, but the one i use is small n skinny. what little oil on the header after an oil change gets washed away with a spray of brakleen. that is a cool story about royal Pontiac.


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## Indy1K (May 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the info. I think I will try the Z bar first, since the Doug's headers are a big ticket item. Can you still get this Bobcat package and badge set?


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## allpawl66 (May 9, 2008)

I have the Dougs d564 on my 64 4 speed & fit was perfect with no mods except oil filter
.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Many years ago, I had the same issue with my '66 GTO. I ended up dimpling the tube at the rag joint with a ball peen hammer, and fixing the Z-bar issue by welding a flag shaped tang onto the upper bar where the clutch pedal rod attaches. This moved the Z bar forward in its stroke, allowing the lower bar to clear the headers. Worked very well for years. Nowadays, I'd just bolt on some cast iron HO manifolds and be done with it.


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