# A bunch of GTO questions, from tuning to rust.



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hi guys!

I´m thinking about buying a GTO 2005 with SAP package, love the car but need some more info before I open the wallet. Will list the most important things for me and hope someone will help me. 

1. Rust, a problem or good rust protection from factory?
2. Wheel bolt pattern, 5x114.3 or something else? Hard to find wheels?
3. Any PnP solutions for tuning? Running AEM Series 2 now and love it.
4. Good tranny and diff? Will handle some extra power?
5. Hard to find better clutches?
6. Coilovers or shocks/springs, hard to find good stuff?
7. Any clue about the weight of a normal GTO?
8. Ok quality in general? Like a Camaro or Mustang?

Sorry for being boring but need to know if it´s the one. 

BTW, great forum! Nice to see that you have so many members.


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

You can find all those answers with 10 minutes of Google and paging through threads here.


----------



## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

B5254T4 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I´m thinking about buying a GTO 2005 with SAP package, love the car but need some more info before I open the wallet. Will list the most important things for me and hope someone will help me.
> 
> ...


1) no/ yes but the vast majority don't drive their GTO's in the snow.
2) 5 x 120, yes... but wheels for beamers are close enough.
3) research EFI live or HP Tuners.
4) proper answer relative to trans type and your idea of what extra power means... 
5) no
6) yes/ no if you go with Lovells from Kollar Racing.
7) research term fat Cavalier, then convert to kilo.
8) relative to comparable years... superior.

If your looking for a smiley face, buy a new 5.0 rustang instead..... GTO's aren't aging well and OEM parts support is disappearing.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> 1) no/ yes but the vast majority don't drive their GTO's in the snow.
> 2) 5 x 120, yes... but wheels for beamers are close enough.
> 3) research EFI live or HP Tuners.
> 4) proper answer relative to trans type and your idea of what extra power means...
> ...


Thanks, great info! This is exactly what I needed, some opinions instead of yes and no. 

Just love the LS and need 4 seats, another option is the Camaro but I at least think the GTO have better suspension. Besides that the GTO will give me the LS2 15.000 USD cheaper than buying the Camaro. Cash left for power parts. 

Why aren´t the the GTO aging well? Stuff breaking?


----------



## Masterdutch (Dec 1, 2009)

Suspension is the number 1 issue with these cars.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Masterdutch said:


> Suspension is the number 1 issue with these cars.


Strength, cost or handling?


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Masterdutch said:


> Suspension is the number 1 issue with these cars.


Those not aging well are due to kids getting them and just beating the ever living hell out of them. These cars new were priced out of the median for teenagers and those just over that age. The reports of abuse from then compared to now that these have become affordable was not near as what we are seeing. 

Most get one not knowing its limitations, drive them beyond its limitations destroy parts of them or the car itself, then dump it. This cars power plant is that of a corvette. Difference is kids getting their hands on these are cheaper than a vette, so, we read and see in pictures their escapades. If Corvettes were affordable as these cars are we'd be seeing the same carnage in the same age range as we do this car. 

Those who purchased these cars new who still have them? They are aging well. The ones with 3+ owners? Many are not.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

B5254T4 said:


> Strength, cost or handling?



The stock suspension does have much to be desired however, MOST drive this car beyond its limitations and things begin failing or breaking.

This car new was a typical ROAD CAR with a lot of HP and Torque. Because of the 400/400 many think they are track ready and can take the abuse. NOT SO. They quickly find out they need modded out to achieve the results many are looking for. Most blame the car instead of themselves. If they drove the car for what it was designed for and didn't go overboard many would not have the issues we read about. Simply, this car was not built to take it to where many think it was built for and take it.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks, great info! Thought the GTO had a monster tranny and diff with a pretty soft but strong suspension. I bet the Tremec will handle some power and easy to upgrade if needed but hard to upgrade diff and axles huh?

I have a 600+hp Honda S2000 Turbo now and have every drivetrain problem possible... Want to find something beefy this time.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

B5254T4 said:


> Thanks, great info! Thought the GTO had a monster tranny and diff with a pretty soft but strong suspension. I bet the Tremec will handle some power and easy to upgrade if needed but hard to upgrade diff and axles huh?
> 
> I have a 600+hp Honda S2000 Turbo now and have every drivetrain problem possible... Want to find something beefy this time.


The LS motors are proven great motors and the T-56 is a proven good transmission. As long as you know its limitations and drive it within them you should be fine. The differentials had shine issues this is well documented. If you have whine you'll know it. The axles are fine, again.... as long as you drive the car with the intentions it was built for. If you're looking to race it, constantly get on it and run it hard you'd be wise to upgrade everything not just one item, most items are tied together. Beefing up a transmission but not the clutch this is a recipe for failure. Beefing up the motor and not the trans or rear end you'll wish you did.


----------



## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

gto judge said:


> those not aging well are due to kids getting them and just beating the ever living hell out of them.
> 
> Those who purchased these cars new who still have them? They are aging well. The ones with 3+ owners? Many are not.


bs!!


----------



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> bs!!


X2. Mine and my wifes didn't age well. Both are gone. Loved driving it but they are prime examples of why GM needed bailout money. They made 3/4 of an awesome car but didn't finish it.


----------



## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

B5254T4 said:


> Thanks, great info! This is exactly what I needed, some opinions instead of yes and no.
> 
> Why aren´t the the GTO aging well? Stuff breaking?


OP... unfortunately, your questions have been beat to death on this entry level GTO forum for the 04~06 GTO and why most will only tell you to use the search function... thus my minimal response.

in short; your new to and excited about the platform. Also, smart enough to be inquisitive but lazy enough to not search for existing threads that address your questions. Many that have been here and on ls1gto, have grown tired of answering the same old questions every time somebody new inquires about a platform thats now going on 10 years of age.

Here's a search for "common problems" that produced several threads for you to read and come up to speed some, so you can make a more informed decision on which beast you'd like to have in your stable.

Pontiac GTO Forum - Search Results

If your looking for specific technical info, check out additional forums like ls1gto and ls1tech..... I suggest starting with this ls1gto section and go from there;

Tech Lounge - LS1GTO.com Forums

Good luck and enjoy the ride. Whichever one you chose.


----------



## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

Be careful with asking questions at LS1GTO. They smell new blood and go on a feeding frenzy.


----------



## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

BWinc said:


> Be careful with asking questions at LS1GTO. They smell new blood and go on a feeding frenzy.


Truth and sound advice, but its also the forum with the most in-depth information about the 04~06 GTO. 

OP should search and read before asking questions to minimize the gang rape potential.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Red Bearded Goat said:


> bs!!


Red its not BS from those coming in here posting their escapades and pictures of their cars abused. I know many as you do who have had their cars since day 1 driven sensible and are aging well. Those abused aren't.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

I know how to search but wanted some more info on the performance and reliability when added power, added a few questions since I already made a thread. Better than making many?

Looking for my first LS powered car and really need a backseat, on top of that I want something with a strong tranny for turbo charging. A good base to keep it short and thought the GTO would be the one.

The thing that concerns me the most is the spare part thing. Since I travel to the US a lot it´s always nice to buy a car with a lot of aftermarket support, you always want to bring home special parts to a good price.

I never understood the suspension thing, what´s wrong with it?

And thanks, a lot of good info here!


----------



## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> I know many as you do who have had their cars since day 1 driven sensible and are aging well. Those abused aren't.


Vic,
I know from personal experience.... mine's not abused, its driven and not holding up well as it ages.


----------



## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

B5254T4 said:


> I know how to search but wanted some more info on the performance and reliability when added power,


Use it and you will find like anything else, increase in performance = decreased reliability unless you pay to upgrade everything.



B5254T4 said:


> a few questions since I already made a thread. Better than making many?


Yes, better to keep all your questions bottled in one thread unless you find an existing thread specific to the question you have.... which reverts back to you searching for answers before asking blanket qurstions.



B5254T4 said:


> for my first LS powered car and really need a backseat, on top of that I want something with a strong tranny for turbo charging. A good base to keep it short and thought the GTO would be the one.


I could burn up a shitton of my time delving into this with you but I simply will not. I will point you in a direction for you to research on your own. Google up Monster Clutch, Kaz differential, Hendrex Engineering, Gforce Engineering and DSS for after market power transmission components. You will need a fat wallet to upgrade everything from the flywheel to the tires if your looking at adding twins for FI. Also, consider where the rubber meets the road... rear tire width is limited to 275 because of the inner fender well unless you minitub... do a search on that as well. 



B5254T4 said:


> thing that concerns me *the most is the spare part thing*. Since I travel to the US a lot it´s always nice to buy a car with a lot of aftermarket support, you always want to bring home special parts to a good price.


I covered this in my 1st response;


Red Bearded Goat said:


> If your looking for a smiley face, buy a new 5.0 rustang instead..... GTO's aren't aging well *and OEM parts support is disappearing.*


After market parts support was never strong due to low production numbers. Mustangs were mass produced and have tons of relatively cheap after market parts. If you go that direction check out CJ Pony Parts. Great group of people there.



B5254T4 said:


> never understood the suspension thing, what´s wrong with it?
> 
> And thanks, a lot of good info here!


The platform base is an Opel Omega with a V8 engine... 

Thats all the time I have today.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Not my intention to steal your time, sorry. 

I´ve been building race engines and cars for many years and know that the reliability suffers when adding power but some cars have strong parts from start and that helps. That´s why I ask, want to find the best LS car if we talk drivetrain and weight.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

B5254T4 said:


> Not my intention to steal your time, sorry.
> 
> I´ve been building race engines and cars for many years and know that the reliability suffers when adding power but some cars have strong parts from start and that helps. That´s why I ask, want to find the* best LS car if we talk drivetrain and weight.*


You may want to check into getting a Corvette then.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Need a backseat this time, would go C6 if not.


----------



## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Many factory parts were hard to come by for a while, I don't know how difficult it is now on some however. As many of these cars neared the end of the warranty period and GM parts were needed to satisfy warranty claims, there were several issues. Biggest one was obtaining them in a timely fashion to not being able to get them at all. GM was approving the use of after market parts to satisfy claims. As these cars age and factory parts are needed all of us may be in trouble getting some. Harder to find parts are commanding pirate prices. 

This may be something to consider before purchasing one. SAP parts are a premium. Some are being made aftermarket. Replacing them will be very costly. Also beware the SAP could be purchased as a kit or piece meal. If the seller is advertising SAP is it the complete package or parts of the kit? Also, value of the car with the SAP was no more than stock, be lerry if the seller is advertising the car for more because of the SAP. 

Weight from memory is about 3700 lbs.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks, many wise words! Will check the car and think about it.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Back again!  Looked at both a 2000 Camaro SS and a 2006 GTO and hmmm, very different cars. The GTO feels a lot more modern and I bet it´s a better base for handling since the Camaro had a live axle. On top of that the Camaro diff is weak as well according to the forums, thought that would be one of the strong points for the SS. 

About the spare parts. Easier to find parts for the Camaro for sure but what about Australia and the UK, ever searched for the rare GTO parts there?


----------



## KarliniSmeagol11 (Apr 21, 2013)

GTO JUDGE said:


> The LS motors are proven great motors and the T-56 is a proven good transmission. As long as you know its limitations and drive it within them you should be fine. The differentials had shine issues this is well documented. If you have whine you'll know it. The axles are fine, again.... as long as you drive the car with the intentions it was built for. If you're looking to race it, constantly get on it and run it hard you'd be wise to upgrade everything not just one item, most items are tied together. Beefing up a transmission but not the clutch this is a recipe for failure. Beefing up the motor and not the trans or rear end you'll wish you did.


Good Advice from GTO Judge!


----------



## SANDU002 (Oct 13, 2004)

B5254T4 said:


> Back again!  Looked at both a 2000 Camaro SS and a 2006 GTO and hmmm, very different cars. The GTO feels a lot more modern and I bet it´s a better base for handling since the Camaro had a live axle. On top of that the Camaro diff is weak as well according to the forums, thought that would be one of the strong points for the SS.
> 
> About the spare parts. Easier to find parts for the Camaro for sure but what about Australia and the UK, ever searched for the rare GTO parts there?


 Australia is where most of the parts come from and a reason why they are so expensive. For example, I was given a price for a particular piece and it changed a couple days later due to the exchange rate. Being in the USA and replacing parts with aftermarket parts is a lot easier and as mentioned, the product is not cheap, but is very good quality in my opinion.

I also agree with GTO Judge that maybe a corvette would be batter for you.


----------



## B5254T4 (Oct 7, 2013)

Understand. The good thing with living up here is that all cool parts are hard to find and we´re used to it. Order from the US or Australia is pretty much the same job.  I wonder if they share any parts with our Opel Omega? 

I need the rear seat, when I buy my next ego car I´ll go Corvette for sure.


----------

