# 4 speed manuäl to automatic



## Mathew Sokos (Sep 6, 2016)

I know almost every thread is the opposite but life has dealt me a low blow. After 46 years waiting for my dream car, I purchased a 1967 Pontiac GTO. It has a close ratio 4 speed M22 rock crusher transmission with a 3.91 posi rear end. It was also an original HO car but the original engine is long gone. It now has a 400 out of a 69 GTO. It took me a long time to find this car, In March I lost a 3 year battle from a chronic knee infection after I replaced my knee. I lost a good portion of my femur and after going through 12 surgeries in 3 years my bone doctor told me I had no choice but to fuse my leg straight. I went ahead with surgery I seem to be doing better. I've only been home a few days but l managed to get to my car I don't think driving a manual transmission is in my future. I need some advice on what it would cost to change from a 4 speed to an automatic or should I sell the car and look for new automatic. I've invested a lot in this car already and was half way to full restoration. I need fresh input. Thanks for your help and advice.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh, man, bummer. Hope you're doing better and will continue to do so. I had a Studebaker Lark that I had a T-10 behind a SBC 350 with iron Eagle heads, Comp XE 274, Eddy RPM intake w/Holley DP, etc. My hip was injured and the replacement could not go normally so clutches were not in my future either.Luckliy a friend in NC helped me get the single pedal assembly for me and Summit helped alot and we got her converted to a TH350 with TCI rebuild kit. The 4 speed parts brought good money from guys wanting to go manually so it all worked out. (Then I sold the screaming Stude for $$$$ for my GTO!)

I hope other guys/gals will put in their 2cents and give you some more exacting advice more pertinent to your GTO. Changeover or sell----hard decision. I expect enough guys want to convert an automatic that you may end up swapping parts with them, who can say?

Best of Luck!!


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## tooth (Jun 5, 2017)

Sorry to hear about the Knee. I'm thinking of going the opposite direction and swapping my hurst his and hers for a muncie.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

tooth said:


> Sorry to hear about the Knee. I'm thinking of going the opposite direction and swapping my hurst his and hers for a muncie.


There's a thought....maybe you and _Tooth_ can just swap parts and solve each other's tranny needs....just my 2 cents.:grin2:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Sorry about the leg, but you have a positive outlook on everything. I assume the M-22 Rockcrusher is an add-on as it was not available in '67 and was not used by Pontiac until 1971. Was the car an original 4-speed/3.90 gear car?

I would not do the swap for a number of reasons. Right now, even without the original engine, a 4-speed car/3.90 gears brings a higher resale value than an automatic.

I would sell the car and then purchase a GTO having an automatic in it. To do the change-over will require you to pay someone to pull all the manual trans parts, then you will have to purchase all the automatic parts; radiator for an automatic, transmission lines, flywheel, torque converter, transmission of your choosing with the TH-400 being the cheapest/easiest swap, shifter, cables, neutral safety switch wiring, transmission kick-down switch at the gas pedal, etc.. 

If you were to sell the M-22, seems they range between $1,000 - $1,500 and I am sure year/part number dictates sale price. You could sell the other parts individually or sell as a complete change over. I would not install an automatic without having it rebuilt along with a new converter. You may break even in selling your set-up as a complete package and invest that into the automatic parts. It'll cost you in labor to get all this done.

If, you do the swap, the re-sale value of the car will go down unless you keep all the take out pieces and sell it with the car - but then you will have to shell out of pocket the costs to put in the automatic.

That said, and your call on this, would be in my opinion to sell the 4-speed car to get your highest re-sale value and then purchase a turn-key driver having a factory automatic - you may even have some cash left over to put in your pocket or re-invest into the "new" GTO.

Now this is all my opinion here, so take it with a grain of salt. To really nail it down, I would work up a price list needed for all the automatic parts, then get honest values on what a complete 4-speed swap might bring. And by honest I mean what people will pay and not what someone thinks its worth. :thumbsup:


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Regret hearing of your condition, Mathew, my prayers are with you & that you are comfortable. In note of total transparency, nothing to gain, IF you do keep the GTO & are considering an outright sale or trade of the 4spd & ancillary parts, it would be smart to inspect the Muncie & see what it actually is. An original M22, ESP a fresh original mid '70-72 usage big output shaft M22 is not a $1000 -1500 transmission, think more. that kind of pricing I'd consider more appropriate for any old '63-69 M20 or M21 Muncie case recently rebuilt with aftermarket M22 gearset. Do wish I was not so deep on projects , have owned quite a few '67 GTO's & still have a lot of nice '67 pieces that would fit well on a SilverGlaze 4spd HO car. Will keep my ears open if I hear of a clean solid running auto '67 GTO (no 2bbl cars) will drop you a PM.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Very sorry to hear the news, Matt. A 4 speed trans and all of its components (pedals, linkage, flywheel, shifter, etc.) is worth considerably more than a TH400 and a dualgate shifter, if you went that route. Like 2-3 times more. You can get a decent TH400 and a generic B&M shifter and have it installed for under 2k. Doing some shopping, for less than that. If I were you, I would not convert the car unless you are in love with it or sentimental about it. I would sell it and get a comparable automatic car. Hell, I'd go all out: auto, a/c highway gear, etc. Get a nice stylish '67 cruiser and enjoy. Change sucks for us old guys, and we have to adapt to it! Good luck, and I'm pulling for you!
Jeff


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