# Suspension need advice $$



## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

Hey, guys,

My suspension is horrible. The rear sags, the body rolls on turns, and I blew my tire earlier due it. So I decided it was about that time already.

I want a solid car that can actually take a corner, eliminate the rear sagging, and feels stable on the road. Mine rides like complete chet.

I'm debating between coil overs and springs shock/strut combo and more inclined to coilovers due to the fact that you can adjust them. 

I know you have to replace strut mounts at the same time. I'm going to get front and rear radius rod bushings.


What else am I missing? Feel free to recommend. Around $2k to spend. Would rather stay cheaper than that though.


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## Steamwalker (Mar 9, 2012)

Depends on your local road conditions. If your roads are horrible, you may want to think of your comfort first before going the coilover route. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have gotten Lovells stock height springs front and rear with KYB Excel-G shocks/struts, rubber strut mounts and poly front radius rod bushings.

May want to order the applicable nuts and bolts. You can reuse the existing ones but I didn't.


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## blackhawk571 (Sep 28, 2013)

I just put Kw v3 in and I love them.


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## Qnko (Jun 8, 2014)

For 2k you cannot get good coilovers. The kw v3 is more than 2300. I would suggest to keep the stock height. Its a mcpherson strut car that has problems fitting bigger wheels even at stock height. I got 4 koni adjustable shocks for 600 and a set of stock height King springs (much harder than stock) for 400. Hothckis sways were round 400. Caster adjustable radius rod bushings, strut mount and bearings, rear radius bushings, control arm bushings, subframe bushings and endlinks probably another 600. So my setup is around 2000$. I cannot tell you how individual parts feel cause i did everything at once. I can only say that stock the car felt like I am driving a whale. Once I changed it it reduced my wheel hop, the car squats and dives less, feels much lighter and way more stable on the road. The drawbacks are that the ride is little bit harder, the subframe bushings are making noise and there is some squeaking from the poly bushings. 
And the most important is tires. They are the only thing connecting a 4000lb car to the road. Switching to a 180 treadwear tires (275 at the back) made a huge difference. 1000$ for 4 tires.


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

See my posts under 'new suspension'.


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## codidious (Jun 6, 2010)

I have BC racing ER coilovers, hotchkis swaybars, Whiteline polyurethane upper strut mounts, fwd and aft radius rod bushings, inner control arm bushings, rear cradle bushings, and rear control arm bushings. The whole set up cost me about $3800.
But if you get BC racing BR coilovers they are $1000 apposed to $1850 for the ER.
For a great setup around $2000, I would recommend BC racing BR coilovers, polyurethane upper strut mount, polyurethane radius rod bushings (fwd and aft) and a set of the hotchkis swaybars

-BC racing BR coilovers $1000
-hotchkis swaybars $434
-whiteline fwd radius rod bushing $107
-whiteline radius rod to control arm bushing HD $35
-whiteline strut mounts (wrecked motorsports includes them for free with coil overs)$116 value
-whiteline differential bushing $35
-total $1611 ($1727 if you pay for strut mounts)

The adjustments on mine go all the way from bouncing your head on the roof at full firm, to only very slightly firmer than stock at full soft. This setup will make your car feel more expensive.


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## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

Steamwalker said:


> If your roads are horrible, you may want to think of your comfort first before going the coilover route.
> 
> May want to order the applicable nuts and bolts.


The roads aren't too bad. I'll definitely look into replacing worn bolts. Or at least the critical ones



blackhawk571 said:


> I just put Kw v3 in and I love them.


My car is stock right now and doesn't see the track. Maybe in the future.



Qnko said:


> The drawbacks are that the ride is little bit harder, the subframe bushings are making noise and there is some squeaking from the poly bushings.
> And the most important is tires. They are the only thing connecting a 4000lb car to the road.


I'm getting most of those bushings but I'll look into the others.

I'm looking for a good shock/strut spring combo but the adjust-ability from coilovers that I preferred was the height one.

I want to build my car except I'm starting with handling/suspension because I don't want to void a warranty I purchased when I financed the car. So eventually I'm going to need to adjust the ride to fit a wider rim thus my preference for the height adjust-ability. 



Gotagoat said:


> See my posts under 'new suspension'.


Saw it. Seems solid. I also want to lower my car though.



codidious said:


> I have BC racing ER coilovers
> 
> For a great setup around $2000, I would recommend BC racing BR coilovers, polyurethane upper strut mount, polyurethane radius rod bushings (fwd and aft) and a set of the hotchkis swaybars
> 
> This setup will make your car feel more expensive.


Is there much difference between the two? ER/BR

I was leaning towards a set up like this. Will the sways add much difference over stock? I was also getting a short shifter but.. damn so many things not enough, $$


How's the whiteline diff. bush. install? I tried installing a prothane one a couple months back and it wouldn't go in. I returned it.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Adjust-ability isn't something that's needed (or even used) for most people. The fronts can help with strut rub but rub isn't really a problem if everything else is in good shape. I really like my Lovells 20mm drop springs (~3/4"). It keeps the rear camber well within spec, improves handling and leaves enough travel for a decent ride. The rear is where you generally want wider wheels and height has absolutely nothing to do with fitment unless you have the wrong offset and have to jack up the back end like a 4x4 to Bandaid a rubbing problem which ruins handling. 

A couple of pieces I would recommend with any suspension upgrade is inner and outer rear control arm bushings at the same time you're doing the rear subframe bushings. No matter what suspension you put on the squiggle of the stock rubber ones negate some of what you're doing (and it helps with intermittent rear rub on corners). While you have the front struts off make sure to have new bump stops on hand as you'll probably find the original ones trashed and they are cheap.


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## codidious (Jun 6, 2010)

redg0at said:


> Is there much difference between the two? ER/BR
> 
> I was leaning towards a set up like this. Will the sways add much difference over stock? I was also getting a short shifter but.. damn so many things not enough, $$
> 
> ...


The ER has large external reservoirs that hold more oil, so it doesn't over heat on the track. Also has separate compression and rebound adjustments.

Yes the sway bars will make a huge difference 
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y439/codypresson/_DSC5663_865x577_226414_wm_zps6515d49f.jpg
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y439/codypresson/_DSC0780_866x577_226402_wm_zps09a71ee9.jpg


I lubed up the new diff bushing and used my BFH and beat the s*** out it


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## Qnko (Jun 8, 2014)

redg0at said:


> How's the whiteline diff. bush. install? I tried installing a prothane one a couple months back and it wouldn't go in. I returned it.


I took the mount off, split it and put the diff insert from behind. Than welded the mount and put it back in. There is a thread about it. Think it was on ls1gto.com


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I put on Hotchkis front and rear sways on my car. The better rear sway is worth it, the front is absolutely not unless you are a serious racer that will spend anything for every little bit. Bushless end links are a good upgrade for the front though. The front is also a PITA to install. You have to drop the engine cradle and then make an alignment tool to get the alignment right when you put it back. The four very long cradle/subframe bolts are also TTY and should be replaced. I even ran for a while with the front sway end links disconnected and hardly noticed it on the street. Dampers and springs did the work.

Likewise the diff insert in my opinion is not worth it. I had a Lovells insert and other than more noises didn't notice anything performance-wise. I sold that and bought a Harrop cover. At least it was noticeable but for the high cost I would only get one if I was a serious road or track racer that once again needed every little bit regardless of cost.


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## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

svede1212 said:


> I really like my Lovells 20mm drop springs (~3/4"). It keeps the rear camber well within spec, improves handling and leaves enough travel for a decent ride.
> 
> The rear is where you generally want wider wheels and height has absolutely nothing to do with fitment unless you have the wrong offset and have to jack up the back end like a 4x4 to Bandaid a rubbing problem which ruins handling.
> 
> ...


You have any pics of your 3/4 inch drop laying around by any chance? What I'm going for is: the lowest I can drop it w/out it affecting function. 

Well my understanding and intention of raising the rear's height to fit a wider fitting tire is: Car is going to sit low as possible with out affecting function on factory 18's and 245's > Later to fit a wider tire would mean that the wider tire would stick out to where the fender is right above it (due to lack of space). So I would raise the height and adjust the stiffness so the fenders won't hit my tire on bumps and the road's discrepancies.... but that's according to me. Correct me if I'm wrong or if there's a proper way of fitting. Ideally I'd want to run with maybe 285's. 

I'm not a serious racer at all. Just street racing once in a while or the occasional red light drags, in Mexico of course, and taking the freeway on ramps hard at times. Or the occasional showing off.

What other bolts are tty?

Are bump stops necessary if I get coilovers or are they only for a spring strut combo?



Tomorrow morning I'm heading over to the suspension shop that's installing everything in order for them to take a look at the goat and see what their input is. I want to start ordering parts asap

So far I have:
Coilovers or Springs & Shock/Strut
Strut Mount w/bearings
Front Radius Rod bushings
Rear Radius Rod bushings
Front Endlink bushings
SLP Rear Sway Bar w bushings



Maybe:
New Heavy Duty Endlinks
Front Control Arm bushings
Rear Control Arm bushings
Rear Subframe bushings w/new bolts


If needed:
Shock bushings
Strut Bump stops
Camber Adjuster


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## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

Constructive criticism and suggestions welcome and desired from anyone experienced in the matter.

Thanks everyone for your prompt responses.

Can't wait to have all this done. My suspension is garbage.

P.S. Brands and part numbers and/or web links suggestions also wanted.


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## Qnko (Jun 8, 2014)

You said that you are not a serious racer at all so why would you need coilovers. Just get a good set of springs and shocks that are matched to the lower spring. Check kollarracing. You also said that you are going for the lowest you can drop it. Check the link that I posted about lowered cars. 
And you are wrong about making the springs harder and raising the car so you can fit wider tires. The car will handle horrible, it might be even dangerous to drive like this.
There has to be suspension travel to absorb the bumps, otherwise the whole car would bounce. I have 275/40/18 and I think to switch to 285/35/18 and my tires are going inside the fenders. 
And if you get coilovers I don't think that you will ever change the settings. I have adjustable shocks for 3 years and never played with the setting. And someone correct me on this if I am wrong but I think that each time you change the ride height you will need an alignment. If you are not serious about racing I would say just to get the springs and matched shocks. And please don't lower it more than 3/4'' and read that article about overlowering a car. You said you are gonna race in mexico. Roads are bumpy over there


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

^^^ I agree with everything. "Coilovers" (technically our stock fronts are coilovers) aren't necessary. Outside of racers I know of no one that adjusts their heights. Our travel is something like 2 1/2" stock. 3/4" drop leaves enough for bumps without slamming the bump stops (bump stops would only need to be gotten with struts). Anything more than 3/4" and your back end camber will also be way too negative without adjustable camber control arm bushings, which I don't recommend. 

While we're on control arm bushings I see you're going to be installing rear subframe. I would strongly advise getting inner and outer rear control arm bushings. You need to disconnect the rear subframe bushings (you do one side at a time) to drop it to get the outer bolts out so now is the time to do it. It will help with the rear camber AND help to prevent rub with wider tires. The stock ones make the control arms squiggley and cause the arm to move a little under stress like cornering and hard acceleration. The front rear control arm IMHO isn't a must do and is a PITA to get out. 

Rear tire fit properly done is ALL about wheel offset. Jacking the car up is absolutely the wrong way and the height negatively affects handling. I currently have 275s and have had 285s in the back with the drop and can travel all the way to the bump stop without rub. It's getting the wheel centered in the well space properly and rolling or trimming the outer lip. I have stock rear wheels widened to 9" and that increases the offset and pulls the tire in towards the middle. In fact it pulls it in so much I use 5mm wheel spacers to bring it back out and get the perfect fit.


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## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

svede1212 said:


> ^^^ I agree with everything. "Coilovers" (technically our stock fronts are coilovers) aren't necessary. Outside of racers I know of no one that adjusts their heights.
> 
> Rear tire fit properly done is ALL about wheel offset. Jacking the car up is absolutely the wrong way and the height negatively affects handling. I currently have 275s and have had 285s in the back with the drop and can travel all the way to the bump stop without rub. It's getting the wheel centered in the well space properly and rolling or trimming the outer lip. I have stock rear wheels widened to 9" and that increases the offset and pulls the tire in towards the middle. In fact it pulls it in so much I use 5mm wheel spacers to bring it back out and get the perfect fit.


Hey so I went MIA for a while. School started and work has me working a lot of ot! 

Anyway! I ended up hitting the coil over route along with some bushings and a rear sway bar.
I don't classify myself as a "racer" as in I'm-going-hit-a-track-every-weekend; but I may or may not race on the street. I maybe sometimes take highway connecting ramps at 100+mph and some tight exits pretty fast to where I feel the g forces.

Over all I'm very pleased with my set up. The ride is stiff as fac but nothing I'm not used to with my ex sloppy suspension; except now the car is stable. I'm going to begin road testing different levels of damper soon to see the difference in handling vs comfort but I don't really mind a stiff set up as long as I'm planted to the ground when it's necessary.

Thanks for schooling me on wheel fitment! I need to get some tires to keep up with the suspension now.

Your car looks fresh man! I'll upload some pics of mine.


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## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

Car was dirty and not the best camera ever.
Looks alright I suppose lol.

4/20/12 When I picked her up









About 2 weeks ago


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Problem on the street is stiff is not anyways stable. On a smooth track stiff works great but on the street it may work better some of the time but meet a bump on the road turning and you hop and lose traction. You'll also feel the back end hop over expansion joints. There's a fine line between firm and streetable and you need a certain amount of pliability to keep the tires on the road.


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## redg0at (Jul 13, 2014)

svede1212 said:


> On a smooth track stiff works great but on the street it may work better some of the time but meet a bump on the road turning and you hop and lose traction.


Yeah makes sense. I had that happen once already. I'm going to seek a better balance testing different settings for a whole week.

Thanks for all your help though, and everyone else that had input!


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