# More Tq Than Hp



## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

Just curious as to why my car always makes much more Torque than HP when on a Dyno. 

Ist time my car was on a dyno it was on a dyno Jet. We [ all stock ] ran a baseline run and then installed a cat back and a cam. 
{ I can explain about the cam later if anyone wants info ].
My numbers at that time had my HP higher then the TQ. Soon after that I switch shops and my car went on a Mustang Dyno. It was on this Dyno around 5 different times as I added HP goodies a little at a time. Every run on the Mustang Dyno over time always netted me more TQ then HP. One run was 379 RWHP 401 RWTQ another time it was 397 RWHP 435 RWTQ and recently it was about 518RWHP and 545 RWTQ. Is this something that is normal. My car is an 05 GTO with A/4 trans. Performance items are listed below.

P.S. every since the install of my TQ Convertor my car always made big TQ numbers at lower RPMs like 2800, 3200, 3600 and then it would drop off. Is this also normal.
Sorry for all the questions. Even though I am 60 years old I am fairly new to having a car on a Dyno. In my racing days [ mid 60s -80s ] most people never had acces to a Dyno. Not sure if they even had Chassis Dyno's then .

JOHN 

5++ RWHP 5++RWTQ on a MUSTANG DYNO
Comp Cam 646/641 270/277 235/240 LSA113 # 928 Valve Springs
P1 PROCHARGER 6lbs boost
LT Headers, MONGILLOS MOTORS Mids & Cats and Magnaflow ex.
MONGILLOMOTORS/RPM STAGE 6 TRANSMISSION
Ported stock Heads SLP U/D pulley .
Ported LS2 PRO 96 M/M Typhoon intake Manifold.
P&P Throttle body.
Vigilanti 3600 stall T/C
B&M Trans Cooler.
60lb injecters & JBA WIREs.
Oil Catch CAN TWE. 
GAUGE POD
MSD DASH HAWK


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## GTOsarge (Oct 9, 2007)

I'm going to guess the Procharger.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GTOsarge said:


> I'm going to guess the Procharger.


The More TQ than HP started 2 years ago. Right around the time that the Convetor was installed. I thought having reverse numbers like that seemed strange. Don't know of anyone else that has this issue


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

The calculation for hp is "Tq X RPM divided by 5252 equals HP". I imagine you are making and maintaining power before and after 5252 rpm. Can you post the dyno results?

At what rpm does the tq and hp peak?


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

05GTO said:


> *Can you post the dyno results?*


Good luck! I've been waiting to see a dyno sheet for almost 2 months now.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

05GTO said:


> The calculation for hp is "Tq X RPM divided by 5252 equals HP". I imagine you are making and maintaining tq before and after 5252 rpm. Can you post the dyno results?
> 
> At what rpm does the tq and hp peak?


I have been trying to get my sheet on here. Don't have a scanner and I tried taking a picture of it and down load. Nothing seems to work correctly. 

I have 2 sets of sheets. Sheet one shows 530 RWTQ at 3300 RPMs and then slowly drops to around 430 RWTQ @ around 5200 RPMs and levels off

HP just climbs nicely from 2500 RPMs and peaks at around 6800 RPMS

Ever since the TQ converter was installed my cars TQ alway seemed to peak between 3000 - 4200 RPMs on the same dyno on different days when other items were installed

my car is a A/4. maybe I need a set of gears


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Mine dynoed at 361/370 with just headers and catback,I'd like to know why as well.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Good luck! I've been waiting to see a dyno sheet for almost 2 months now.




I found one of my old sheets on my P.C. This was from December 2007. At that time I had a Cam, headers, cat back , TQ converter and a Pro Products 96 MM Typhoon intake. With this sheet you can get an idea of what I am talking about. I have 2 more sheets since then. The numbers are higher but the HP and TQ curve are about the same


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

First dyno is my baseline with K&N CAI, x-pipe and flowmasters, the second dyno is with cam, headers, heads and UD pulley.

I notice they did not shut mine down until around 6500 RPM, your car was gaining in HP when they shut it down at 6300. My 6M peaked tq at around 4800 rpm and your car peaked tq around 3500. 

Just a wild guess, I would say your 3500 stall converter and shutting it down at 6300 rpm could be responsible for a higher tq nuimber. 

Just my 2 cents,


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

05GTO said:


> First dyno is my baseline with K&N CAI, x-pipe and flowmasters, the second dyno is with cam, headers, heads and UD pulley.
> 
> I notice they did not shut mine down until around 6500 RPM, your car was gaining in HP when they shut it down at 6300. My 6M peaked tq at around 4800 rpm and your car peaked tq around 3500.
> 
> ...




On my latest sheet [ May 2009 ] The Graph looked simular to the 2007 sheet except HP was still climbing at 6700 RPMs when they shut it down.

The 1st time my car was ever on a Dyno it was on a Dyno Jet. The HP & TQ at that time were very close to each other. Nice even climb in both till the TQ peaked around 4500 and the HP peaked at 6200 when they shut it down .

After that one run on a Dyno Jet I switch shops and went to one that uses a Mustang


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

i'm certainly not an expert on forced induction but it looks like you don't have a very good cam. your LSA is too low allowing boost bleed off due to too much overlap. usually FI cams have more like a 115 to 117 LSA.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> i'm certainly not an expert on forced induction but it looks like you don't have a very good cam. your LSA is too low allowing boost bleed off due to too much overlap. usually FI cams have more like a 115 to 117 LSA.


The cam that is in the car has been in there since April 2007. I did not change cams when the F/I was installed a few months ago . My sheets have been looking simular except for higher readings ever since the TQ convertor was installed around June 2007. The shop that installed the cam could not even tune the dam motor. It ran like crap and felt like it lost 100 HP at lower RPMs. The people that installed it never told me I needed a TQ converter with the cam. I found another shop and they took over from there


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Tell me if I got this right, my reading comprehension skills suck: You baselined your car and your HP was higher than your TQ then you added cam and others things and changed dynos now your reading more TQ than HP?


You cam is the brains, lungs and heart of the engine. With my stock cam I made more torque than horsepower then when I changed the cam I made more horsepower than torque. Added the supercharger and I make way more horsepower than torque. My cam is alittle more supercharger friendly than yours.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GM4life said:


> Tell me if I got this right, my reading comprehension skills suck: You baselined your car and your HP was higher than your TQ then you added cam and others things and changed dynos now your reading more TQ than HP?
> 
> 
> You cam is the brains, lungs and heart of the engine. With my stock cam I made more torque than horsepower then when I changed the cam I made more horsepower than torque. Added the supercharger and I make way more horsepower than torque. My cam is alittle more supercharger friendly than yours.



The 1st shop I ever used had a Dyno Jet. The first thing they ever did was a Cat Back only and I made more HP then TQ. A few months later I went back to them because I wanted more power. They told me to do a cam , so they did that and I still made more HP then TQ. When I picked the car up from them it ran like ****. Would not start, stalled everytime I slowed down to a crawl or came to a stop sign or traffic light. It also felt like it lost 100 HP at lower RPMs. I took the car back to them for a retune and when I picked it back up it was still the same. Ran like crap. I never went back to them again. I found another shop [ the one I use today ] and took the car to them to check it out. Right off the bat they told me I need a Torque convertor because of the cam and it would be a good idea to add headers at the same time.They installed both items and when the car went on their Mustang Dyno it made more TQ than HP. It has been like that ever since.
The items that were installed after the TQ convertor and headers were a Typhoon 96 MM intake [ still made more TQ than HP ] and then a U/D pulley
[ still made more TQ than HP ] and then ported the stock heads and Typhoon Intake [ still made more TQ than HP ] and just recently added a Procharger and still made more TQ then HP.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

LOWET said:


> The cam that is in the car has been in there since April 2007. I did not change cams when the F/I was installed a few months ago . My sheets have been looking simular except for higher readings ever since the TQ convertor was installed around June 2007. The shop that installed the cam could not even tune the dam motor. It ran like crap and felt like it lost 100 HP at lower RPMs. The people that installed it never told me I needed a TQ converter with the cam. I found another shop and they took over from there


a torque converter because of the way it works is a torque multiplier so i'm sure that's what happened when you changed them. i'm also saying that a good FI cam isn't the same thing a NA cam is. you're leaving some on the table with that one. i'd get a hold of Ed Curtis of FlowTech Induction and see what he has to say about a custom grind for you. you could sell the old one to make up some of the difference.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Ok, now I got it. The cam changed the attitude of the car. I surprised that the shop that installed the cam was able to do anything with it on a dyno, I wouldn't go by the numbers they had. If it ran like crap then its not going to produce the numbers that it should. Also you added headers and allowed that cam to breath.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GM4LIFE

What cam are you running. Thinking about swapping mine out this winter.

I hate to write a 400 word short story about my cam but it has been a nightmare since day one
The 1st shop told me they were going to do a cam with around a 600 lift but was going to order a Custom Grind from Comp because I had an A/4. When I picked up my car from them I asked for the Cam data information. They told me it must be somewhere and they will call me when they find it. A few weeks later a call to them got me the same answer. I asked them for the specs and I will just wright it down on paper for my own records. Their reply was we don't remember the specs on the cam but it must have around a 600 lift. I was really pissed. I was able to find out where they get their parts from. One place was a local speed shop, the other was SLP and they usually get all of their LS1& LS2 valve train parts directly from Comp. I started to call everyone to get information and I was able to match my Invoice Number to an order that they place to Comp Cams. Comp Cam gave me the Specs. The people at Comp Cams were great but they also told me that because my Invoice Number matches the order placed by that shop DOES NOT MEAN that is what they installed in my car. So here I was with a cam in my car and did not know for sure what it was.

I never did any business with that shop again [ won't mention their name ].
The second shop told me the cam in my car had to be huge because even with a very good tune the idle had to be set around 1100 RPMS. Anything under that and the car would shake so hard it would loosen the fillings in your teeth.

To make a long story short. They only Cam info I have is from Comp but that does not mean that this cam is in my car. My new shop says this cam is big.
The car runs great. Nice lumpy idle at 850 RPMs. Makes enough power.
I just might swap out the cam anyways at the end of the year. My second shop does feel that the cam specs that I have from Comp Cams are correct


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> a torque converter because of the way it works is a torque multiplier so i'm sure that's what happened when you changed them. i'm also saying that a good FI cam isn't the same thing a NA cam is. you're leaving some on the table with that one. i'd get a hold of Ed Curtis of FlowTech Induction and see what he has to say about a custom grind for you. you could sell the old one to make up some of the difference.


Thanks. I have heard a lot of good things about ED. Most likely I will swap out the cam at the end of this year or early Spring 2010.

Thanks


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GM4life said:


> Ok, now I got it. The cam changed the attitude of the car. I surprised that the shop that installed the cam was able to do anything with it on a dyno, I wouldn't go by the numbers they had. If it ran like crap then its not going to produce the numbers that it should. Also you added headers and allowed that cam to breath.


I had a bad feeling about the 1st shop after my car sat there for 3 weeks waiting on a Cam install. After the first two weeks I called them to find out about the waiting. They told me they were still waiting for the Software for the Dyno to arrive.

My HP & TQ numbers started to reverse right after the install of the 3600 Stall Conveter


Hope I am not confusing anyone.

Shop 1 = Cat back in 2006, Cam in 2007. Dyno Jet numbers had the car with more HP than TQ

Shop 2 in May/June 07 = TQ converter and headers and mid pipes. More TQ then HP on a Mustang Dyno.

Shop 2 in Nov 2007 = Typhoon Intake and U/D pulley. More TQ than HP

Shop 2 in mid 2008 = Ported Intake and ported stock heads. More TQ than HP

Shop 2 in April/May 2009. Procharger and larger injectors. More TQ than HP


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

LOWET said:


> I had a bad feeling about the 1st shop after my car sat there for 3 weeks waiting on a Cam install. After the first two weeks I called them to find out about the waiting. They told me they were still waiting for the Software for the Dyno to arrive.
> 
> My HP & TQ numbers started to reverse right after the install of the 3600 Stall Conveter
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure if the torque converter has anything to do with the numbers. Its a fluid clutch, most shops dyno the car with the torque converter clutch locked, I thought:confused. But I agree with *svede1212* talk to someone that knows cams, the tightest LSA for a supercharged car I saw was 114LSA. Talk to someone about the cam you have in there now and see is it worth removing before buying a new one.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> a torque converter because of the way it works is a torque multiplier so i'm sure that's what happened when you changed them. i'm also saying that a good FI cam isn't the same thing a NA cam is. you're leaving some on the table with that one. i'd get a hold of Ed Curtis of FlowTech Induction and see what he has to say about a custom grind for you. you could sell the old one to make up some of the difference.



Just sent EDC a PM. Thanks for reminding me of him.

JOHN


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GM4life said:


> I'm not so sure if the torque converter has anything to do with the numbers. Its a fluid clutch, most shops dyno the car with the torque converter clutch locked, I thought:confused. But I agree with *svede1212* talk to someone that knows cams, the tightest LSA for a supercharged car I saw was 114LSA. Talk to someone about the cam you have in there now and see is it worth removing before buying a new one.


Thanks. I did send a P.M. to EDC and asked for his input.

Thanks again

John


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Let us know what he says.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GM4life said:


> Let us know what he says.


Will do


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