# Cylinder head question



## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

I am going to be doing either a 402 forged stroker kit or cylinder heads in about 4-5 months,but if I can't come up with enough funds to pay for installing the kit I intend on just buying heads then doing the 402 kit next Spring/Summer.

My problem is either way I go the setup will not be optimal until the build is completely done.

Ed at Flowtech is working with me on this and he recommended doing the stoker kit first even though I have stock heads and ported stock intake manifold.My issue is I don't think I'll have enough money for the install.

He also told me that if I had to do heads then it would be ok,but not optimal.

The heads I will be getting from him,either now or next year, are LXR 245's.
My cam specs are in my sig and along with my stock heads I'm wondering what I can expect from this?

I'm planning on a Procharger F series a few years after the 402 and heads so I want to buy heads one time and one time only.

What do you guys think about the 245's on a 364 with stock heads with my cam?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

A 245 intake runner is going to be HUGE on that motor. Are they cathedral ports?


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I was thinking the same thing. My guess is they're cathedral.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Once again. Why don't you save up and do it at once? Correct me if I'm wrong but *dustyminpin* did that.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

I would bank the money, make some interest, then do a proper build down the road since you have big plans.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> A 245 intake runner is going to be HUGE on that motor. Are they cathedral ports?


Yes they are cathedral ports.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Once again. Why don't you save up and do it at once? Correct me if I'm wrong but *dustyminpin* did that.


Too impatient I guess,plus the way things go for me if I do not do part of it now something will come up and I will never get to do it or have it pushed back even further.

I'm on a 4-5 year plan as it is.I need to do at least part of it year by year.

dustyminpin did what?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

ROBSGTO said:


> Too impatient I guess,


I'm the same way too brother. You could set aside what you need to get the project done and don't touch it. Once you got your budget buy all your stuff at once. Or you can buy your stuff little by little and set it aside untill you have everything and do it at once. Just a suggestion you can do what you want.

:cheers


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> I'm the same way too brother. You could set aside what you need to get the project done and don't touch it. Once you got your budget buy all your stuff at once. Or you can buy your stuff little by little and set it aside untill you have everything and do it at once. Just a suggestion you can do what you want.
> 
> :cheers


I do know what your saying,but not touching it is easier said than done with me.

The only thing with buying little by little is that I could buy a little now,but have to wait another year to buy the remaining parts.

I basically live paycheck to paycheck and use a fund that I can tap into only once a year to do things to my car.Last year it was cam,UDP,ported intake and ported tb.

Knowing me I'll end up buying either one when it's all said and done.Patience isn't one of my virtues.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

You did all this work and if you were to do a stroker it would all be worthless, essentially a waste of money. Modding a car can take years, but it is more then worth doing right the first time. If you can't wait to save the money and do it right, maybe look for a new modding path/goal... maybe an LS3 top end?


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

jpalamar said:


> You did all this work and if you were to do a stroker it would all be worthless, essentially a waste of money. Modding a car can take years, but it is more then worth doing right the first time. If you can't wait to save the money and do it right, maybe look for a new modding path/goal... maybe an LS3 top end?


I did all what work?My cam,ported intake,and throttle body?If that's what you're talking about,I can sell those when I need to.

In the end it will be done right.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I've made the phone calls, crunched the numbers, done and redone the math. It is almost to the penny going to cost me the same to buy a stroker crate engine short block from Texas-Speed and put my top end and the rest of my existing mods on the short block and have that installed, as it would cost me to buy a nice balanced 402 stroker kit for $2000-$2500. 

I'd have to pay my speed shop to pull my motor, tear it down, and have them ship it to a machine shop (my speed shop and most speed shops don't do machining work, the machines are WAY too expensive). After paying thousands more to have the block reworked/sleaved/etc., then it's gotta be shipped BACK to the speed shop. Then they gotta put most of the old block's parts on the new block to have a running turnkey engine. 

Then that bad boy finally gets put back into the engine bay to be buttoned back up and retuned. Whew... I got tired just typing all that. Gulf Coast Racing Engines owner David Lazeear (of GM High-Tech Performance and LSX Shootout fame and SAM graduate) quoted me around 6 grand for everything, depending on options. That was the 3 ring circus of shipping back and forth and making sure everybody got paid (XXX Motorsports and Gulf Coast Racing Engines). I'm not sure if that included the dyno tune or not. 

I can get a badass 418 or 427 LS3 stroker from Texas-Speed for $4800 to $5000 and all I gotta replace out of my existing setup is the cam (maybe the fuel injectors, but the 46# ones I got now are no slouch and may be able to handle it). Then pay my speed shop to do the swap and retune and I'm off to blow drivetrain parts apart.


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## AlaGreyGoat (Jul 6, 2006)

If you're thinking about going with a blower, why not now?
You don't really need to do anything else. You would be at
about the same power as a n/a stroker motor.

Larry


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

AlaGreyGoat said:


> If you're thinking about going with a blower, why not now?
> You don't really need to do anything else. You would be at
> about the same power as a n/a stroker motor.
> 
> Larry


Because I don't have the funds to buy a blower right now.I want to do this in stages because that is the only way I can due to funding issues.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Guess I shoulda just bought a damn 03/04 Cobra.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Everybody has one of those...

Yeah its cheap, but you get what you pay for.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

ROBSGTO said:


> Because I don't have the funds to buy a blower right now.I want to do this in stages because that is the only way I can due to funding issues.


:agree
About the blower comment. That's why I wrote one off about 3 years ago. After the 6+ grand for the procharger/maggie/whatever, and another grand or more in labor plus tuning on top of that...:willy: You can't argue with the outcome though. If I ever had to do it over, I'd of kept everything stock and saved up on the blower. It makes more sense coming from a DD and fuel economy perspective. If I ever get the chance to buy another Goat (for my wife), that'd be the route I'd go. I get sick to my stomach everytime I see my buddy's Lingenfelter C5 with the raised hood Maggy 112 sitting on top of it...


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

He is planning on doing a blown stroker motor. IF done correctly the most powerful cars on the street. Most run around with at least 800rwhp.

If your budget is tight now, its going to get tighter expecially when you have to upgrade the fuel system, drivetrain, ect, ect...

Even a Cobra needs upgrades if you want power. My friend has a 03 Cobra with over 600rwhp. He fully built the engine, drivetrain and a 3.x Whipple.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> He is planning on doing a blown stroker motor. IF done correctly the most powerful cars on the street. Most run around with at least 800rwhp.
> 
> If your budget is tight now, its going to get tighter expecially when you have to upgrade the fuel system, drivetrain, ect, ect...
> 
> Even a Cobra needs upgrades if you want power. My friend has a 03 Cobra with over 600rwhp. He fully built the engine, drivetrain and a 3.x Whipple.


Let me explain.....I have a fund that I can dive into once a year and once a year only.Every year the fund grows and I can take out a bit more.By the time I pay my car off in 4 years the fund will have grown enough that I will buy a Procharger F series and in the years between all the necessary supporting mods will be completed.

Yes my budget is tight that is why I will do bit by bit every year for the next 4 years.

I have come to the conclusion that I will just buy heads this year and next summer/winter I will buy an assembled forged stroker block.Since I have to wait I'm hoping to have enough for a 418 if not a 402/408.

Ed at Flowtech says not worry about the LXR 245's being too big if that is what my budget can buy right now.It won't be optimal,but he says better that throwing a donkey d*ck cam in a car with stock heads which is and I quote...."backwards thinking".


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

You didn't have to explain your budget, I'm just letting you know what lies ahead. Building a blown stroker motor/car correctly with all the supportting mods is not cheap. Expacially for folks that don't do their own wrenching that depend on 'other' folks to do most of it for them will add up too. I would hate for you to get thru the middle of your build and want to change your mind or have regrets. Do yourself a favor and add up everything you may need to complete your build, it will give you a ballpark figure. You may find out you may spend more than the car is worth or could have bought another car


I know what you are doing it has taken me five years to get my car where it is now and its still not done.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> You may find out you may spend more than the car is worth or could have bought another car



Undoubtedly will spend more than what the car is worth in the end and buying another car is not an option for me at least because even after getting frustrated about things and saying I should have bought a Cobra and whatnot from time to time nothing will ever really change.......I love this car!


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

If I do install the LXR 245's and change out my intake manifold,but keep my current cam how would you say my car would perform?I will have no choice,but to keep my current cam,at least until next year unless I swapped cams instead of intake manifold.

Again I want to stress I know the setup would not be optimal so please don't go there,but how will it perform in your opinions?

I could just buy them and keep them until next year,but I know darn well that will be hard to do with them just sitting here.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

ROBSGTO said:


> I could just buy them and keep them until next year,but I know darn well that will be hard to do with them just sitting here.


Yes, it is hard to do, but that's what I did. I really had no choice though. Converting over to the rectangle port LS3 heads forced me to buy a bunch of stuff I didn't plan on buying. I had to save up for an intake manifold and rocker arms for starters, so it's not like I could go half-assed and just start throwing parts onto my car as I got them, even if I wanted to. Texas-Speed also set me up with a bigger cam then initially planned, to get the most out of their stage 2.5 CNC ported LS3 heads flowing 349 cfm @ .600, so I had to buy a bigger torque converter and tranny cooler instead of staying with the stock stall. 

I'd say your car would drive alright. You will probably lose torque down low, or at best not gain any at all. You will see minor improvements midrange through the band and at the top end when she's really huffing you will see improvements. I'm guessing 25-30 hp, about like putting a set of headers on. Of course, I could be wrong, and have been


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

ROBSGTO said:


> If I do install the LXR 245's and change out my intake manifold,but keep my current cam how would you say my car would perform?I will have no choice,but to keep my current cam,at least until next year unless I swapped cams instead of intake manifold.
> 
> Again I want to stress I know the setup would not be optimal so please don't go there,but how will it perform in your opinions?
> 
> I could just buy them and keep them until next year,but I know darn well that will be hard to do with them just sitting here.


Well you are ahead of the game you got a decent sized cam and LT already. I say she might be alittle sluggish on the low end but really pick up on the top end.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Well you are ahead of the game you got a decent sized cam and LT already. I say she might be alittle sluggish on the low end but really pick up on the top end.



Ok,thanks! I could live with that until next year.My car sees the highway most of the time so low end isn't really an issue anyways.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Good luck on your build. That is something I allways wanted to do was a blown stroker motor a 402 with a F-series Procharger or a Ysi Vortec.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Good luck on your build. That is something I allways wanted to do was a blown stroker motor a 402 with a F-series Procharger or a Ysi Vortec.


Thanks,hopefully it will all get done.

But as everyone knows no one can predict the future and anything can happen to put a damper on any plans any person may have.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

Well a guy on the other forum just posted up his results after adding the 245 heads along with a Flowtech cam.............VERY impressive! Stock cubed LS2,but has FAST and Svede OTRCAI.

517rwhp 438rwtq

I think it may be a record for a stock cubed LS2 H/C/I GTO.


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## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

After thinking on this long and hard I have once again changed my mind!lol

I will try and save up to do the heads and stroker all at once instead heads now then stroker or vise versa. Only problem is it may take 2 years to save up enough with my financial situation.

Instead in probably about 4 months I will buy a clutch,Vic Jr. intake manifold,Svede OTRCAI,and a passenger side seat cover(blue).

The main reason for this is the seat covers are discontinued by GM and Gene at GM Partswarehouse says he can get me one from people that have bought up the discontinued parts from GM.I want to make sure I can get one before it's too late and at over $400 just for the section I need that limits what I can do this year,but imo the seat cover is top priority since there might be another chance to get one when they all run out.

Thanks for all the advice/opinions! I think in the end the best decision is to use some patience and do it correctly.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

ROBSGTO said:


> Thanks for all the advice/opinions! I think in the end the best decision is to use some patience and do it correctly.


You are becoming wise Young Grasshopper...:cheers


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

:cheers


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