# Front tires wearing weird... why?



## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

So I have 62k on my 04. Just got tires in April for inspection, replaced a bad tie rod, and took to the shop to have an alignement done.

Car drive straight, no weird vibrations, and steering is tight(as good as it can be with stock bushings).

My front tires are wearing really bad on the edges... outside and inside. More on the outside though so I'm guessing my RR bushings are most likely causing that? I checked my tire PSI and they are at 32... so not that low. I slightly over filled the tires with air to compensate a tad while I figure it out. Don't wanna shell out all that for new tires before the problem is fixed. I have a set of all seasons in the garage on spare wheels if needed in a pinch too.

I haven't gone under the car to look at anything but is there anything specific that would cause this kinda wear? I have never done anything with suspension really so I'm a noob.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Under inflated tires will wear like your describing. What does the side of the tire list for max pressure??


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## mikes06goat (Jan 13, 2009)

I run my factory bridgestones at 40psi. No problems in the 19,700 that I have on it.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Rukee said:


> Under inflated tires will wear like your describing. What does the side of the tire list for max pressure??


I honestly didn't check, but I only have about 40 PSI in them so I don't think it is anything too crazy or will cause any issues.

Underinflated tires is the only thing I can think of too, but why rears were within 1-2 psi of the fronts and are wearing perfectly even. Will that little of a difference wear a set of tires out in 5000 miles?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The front tires have all the weight of the engine and tranny, plus the weight of the whole car + some when your hitting the brakes, then add steering forces. It's only logical that they would wear faster if under inflated.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Rukee said:


> The front tires have all the weight of the engine and tranny, plus the weight of the whole car + some when your hitting the brakes, then add steering forces. It's only logical that they would wear faster if under inflated.


True, just never expected it to be nearly this dramatic. Passenger side is literally a slick on the edge. I'm switching wheels tonight. I'll post my alignment specs here to make sure they check out but nothing stood out to me all that weird on in.


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## pctek (Jul 18, 2010)

jpalamar said:


> True, just never expected it to be nearly this dramatic. Passenger side is literally a slick on the edge. I'm switching wheels tonight. I'll post my alignment specs here to make sure they check out but nothing stood out to me all that weird on in.


I have a 05 gto and it has or had new tires put on from the 1st owner when he traded in the gto for an corvette at the dealer where I trade my trailblazer about a month ago.

The tires he put on where actually the geforce g or something like that its the exact same tire model and size that comes originally from factory, the same on the place card sticker when you open the drivers side door.

What was happening seems similiar to your issue, is the front tires where wearing on the outside edges liek feathering or cupping. If i remember right the inside edges where fine or maybe slighty worn, but middles of tires looked good. Now the rears tires are non issue.

Also another issue I think I saw was strut rub only from the passenger front though, because I saw a 6 inch long cut on the sidewall inside tire area, it wasnt a deep cut but there was a slice/cut there.

I dropped it off the dealer last night and they are going to see if its a alightment issue or suspension components are bad. 

Suspension parts that can be bad are collapsed struts/bushings, radius rod, etc etc. I'll post here see what happens.

Ohh forgot to say, I took the gto yesterday before the dealrer to a independent localy owned alightment shop guy and just buy him eye balling the front tires more so on the passenger side he see negative camber or something like. He was saying has the gto been lowered and I said I dotn know I thought all gtos looked kind of low already. Are out gtos low already? The clearance from the to of tires and wheel well look like its lowered front and back. 

Anyways he said to fix this issue is a common thing is when people lower thiers cars the wheels are not straight and they have issue with tires wearing liek crap, so He showed my bolt from a catolog type book that are in milli meters sixing that you put in between the strut, I forgot exaclty what but it take away the negative camber or toe I forgot what technical gibberrish he was saying. 

But I dont know if I wanted to put some artifical fix, I was thing since I have a 1 year gm sertified warranty I want to see if the dealer can fix thr issue.


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## pctek (Jul 18, 2010)

Oh yea this "Car drive straight, no weird vibrations, and steering is tight(as good as it can be with stock bushings)."

is how my gto rode too, so how can it be a alightment issue right? But what do I know Im not a alightment tech or anything.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

if the fronts are toed out too much this will cause quick wear, especially under inflated. It won't necessarily cause a vibration either.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Just wanted to give an update... my RR bushings are leaking, 1 of my front strut mounts collapsed, and the bump stop os torn up(not shocked since they feel like the same foam that is in my Nurf gun lol).


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

jpalamar said:


> Just wanted to give an update... my RR bushings are leaking, 1 of my front strut mounts collapsed, and the bump stop os torn up(not shocked since they feel like the same foam that is in my Nurf gun lol).


Time to replace the struts and shocks while its apart.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Yea, just gotta figure out where I'm getting everything yet. I don't feel like shelling out $1000 lol


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I ment struts and springs. Lol.

Yeah you'll come pretty close, just the primary parts. You can get Lovells bushings and springs the stuts is the biggest factor in the price. Depends on how agressive you want the springs and dampners to be. I haven't got struts or shocks yet but I got F&R springs. Got a good deal on some low mileage front springs to match the rears.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

GM4life said:


> I ment struts and springs. Lol.
> 
> Yeah you'll come pretty close, just the primary parts. You can get Lovells bushings and springs the stuts is the biggest factor in the price. Depends on how agressive you want the springs and dampners to be. I haven't got struts or shocks yet but I got F&R springs. Got a good deal on some low mileage front springs to match the rears.


Its a DD and to be hoenst, I'm fairly content with how it felt stock, would like it to be slightly more responsive but not all that big of a deal. My main concern is long lasting parts since I put almost 20k a year on my car.

I'll probally be going with Lovells though, I don't want to touch anything with Pedders on it because 1/2 the time they aren't even stocked. Hell, I if my rack fails I can't even replace it. I do plan on raising the rear .5" so I can widen my stock 17s an 1" and run some 275s, but other then that no big plans left other then long tubes and clutch when it fails(66k miles so I'm sure I'm close since I'm lightly modded)


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

jpalamar said:


> Its a DD and to be hoenst, I'm fairly content with how it felt stock, would like it to be slightly more responsive but not all that big of a deal. My main concern is long lasting parts since I put almost 20k a year on my car.
> 
> I'll probally be going with Lovells though, I don't want to touch anything with Pedders on it because 1/2 the time they aren't even stocked. Hell, I if my rack fails I can't even replace it. I do plan on raising the rear .5" so I can widen my stock 17s an 1" and run some 275s, but other then that no big plans left other then long tubes and clutch when it fails(66k miles so I'm sure I'm close since I'm lightly modded)


Lovells is a good choice I think if you don't want the agressiveness as King and alittle softer than Pedders. Shocks and struts I have no clue about, I'm thinking about going with Pedders Comfort Gas shocks and struts because of the price and its a DD for now until it gets retired back to weekend duty. I started out wanting Konis but for the price and I won't be doing much adjustment, I decided to find something else. When I talked to Andy at Kollar Racing about Lovell/Stock spring rates they are just alittle more than stock.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> Its a DD and to be hoenst, I'm fairly content with how it felt stock, would like it to be slightly more responsive but not all that big of a deal. My main concern is long lasting parts since I put almost 20k a year on my car.
> 
> I'll probally be going with Lovells though, I don't want to touch anything with Pedders on it because 1/2 the time they aren't even stocked. Hell, I if my rack fails I can't even replace it. I do plan on raising the rear .5" so I can widen my stock 17s an 1" and run some 275s, but other then that no big plans left other then long tubes and clutch when it fails(66k miles so I'm sure I'm close since I'm lightly modded)


You don't need (or particularly want) to raise the back end. If you widen your wheels all of the width is on the inside and it pulls the tires towards the middle of the car. I run 285s on a dropped car without any rubbing. With it set up right you can have your cake and eat it too while going all the way to the bump stops without a problem. When you raise the car it significantly affects the car's handling. The car handles much, much better slightly lowered than slightly higher. It's hard to believe that it makes that much of a difference but it does.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

GM4life said:


> Lovells is a good choice I think if you don't want the agressiveness as King and alittle softer than Pedders. Shocks and struts I have no clue about, I'm thinking about going with Pedders Comfort Gas shocks and struts because of the price and its a DD for now until it gets retired back to weekend duty. I started out wanting Konis but for the price and I won't be doing much adjustment, I decided to find something else. When I talked to Andy at Kollar Racing about Lovell/Stock spring rates they are just alittle more than stock.


There was a thread on the other board a few years ago where someone that had access to testing equipment tested Lovells and Pedders spring rates and they were about the same. I went with Lovells and they are noticeably firmer than stock but not harsh.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

svede1212 said:


> You don't need (or particularly want) to raise the back end. If you widen your wheels all of the width is on the inside and it pulls the tires towards the middle of the car. I run 285s on a dropped car without any rubbing. With it set up right you can have your cake and eat it too while going all the way to the bump stops without a problem. When you raise the car it significantly affects the car's handling. The car handles much, much better slightly lowered than slightly higher. It's hard to believe that it makes that much of a difference but it does.


Thanks for the info on the rear springs. I'll stick with 0 drops then.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

It doesn't take a lot of work with a widened stock wheel to make a big tire fit. When you add an inch your offset increases by half so your new offset is about 60mm. I actually had to add a 5mm spacer to bring it back out a little as the total room in the fender area isn't that wide. I also did a very mild fender roll myself altho a grind would do the same thing. One thing I think helps is doing the rear control arm bushings. They're cheap and they keep the control arm from moving in any direction besides up and down like they're supposed to. You can check for clearance by leaving the spring out and raising and lowering the wheel to check for clearance. Sometimes you find everything is good but you get a little rubbing on corners. That's because of the stock control arm bushings. I also took a BFH and barely touched up a couple of little bumps on the inside fender.

In the photos below you can see how they added width and how all of it is to the inside. The pictures below that show two tires of the same width but the first one is on the stock width and the second is on the 1" widened wheel. You can see that the narrower wheel causes the sides to bulge out which make it rub on the outside of the fender. The last picture is my 285s with 20mm drop springs. They give a great stance, handling and ride.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> There was a thread on the other board a few years ago where someone that had access to testing equipment tested Lovells and Pedders spring rates and they were about the same. I went with Lovells and they are noticeably firmer than stock but not harsh.


Didn't know that. Pedders don't disclose their spring rates just say they are a percentage above so and so. But Lovells and King do disclose spring rates. Good to know. I only have Lovells springs in the rear, fronts are sitting on the shelf in the garage didn't really notice any different than stock.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

GM4life said:


> Didn't know that. Pedders don't disclose their spring rates just say they are a percentage above so and so. But Lovells and King do disclose spring rates. Good to know. I only have Lovells springs in the rear, fronts are sitting on the shelf in the garage didn't really notice any different than stock.


That's because butt-o-meters are only sensitive when your exhaust gets louder. :rofl: I think they were something like 50% stiffer

Stock vs Lovells


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

As much as I don't need coilovers, Koller is running a great price for BC, $1300 with poly mounts, bump stops, bolts, and Lovells RR. Man, if I can only milk it to Christmas


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> That's because butt-o-meters are only sensitive when your exhaust gets louder. :rofl: I think they were something like 50% stiffer
> 
> Stock vs Lovells


:lol: I mean harshness.

I compared a spare set of stock f&r springs with the Lovells f&r side by side like you. The springs rates don't match the way they "look". With having the just the rears in and the bushings the car handles a great deal better than before. Just going don't the road don't "feel" that much different. Yeah maybe the butt meter needs calibration


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

svede1212 said:


>


Do want. I was just talking up your 9" wides in another thread the other day.:cheers


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## gtotogo (Sep 18, 2010)

svede1212,

Did you install a adjustable rear control arm bushing to keep your camber in check when you added the 20mm drop springs?

Thanks gtotogo


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Finally got the car on the lift to check things out. Strut mounts are fried but RR bushings look OK. Either way, I have a complete overhaul to do if I have the GTO... Lovells strut mounts, RR bushings, bumpstops, and 0 drop front and rear springs. I'm going with Monroe SensaTrack struts and shocks because lifetime warranty and good price. Its a DD, so I don't need super handling. Will also be adding an Energy Suspension master bushing kit to the mix. About $1000 or so out the door is what I'm guessing.

Hopefully, I'll have enough money left to widen my spare 17s and get some 275s on the back 

I figured out my clunk in the rear too. Nothing physically was wrong on on the outside. Saw a good bit of oil above the diff. When I took it in for inspection last year the guy topped off my fluids, one was the diff. He overfilled it so it was blow out. Somehow the seal between the diff and the driveshaft is OK. I drained the fluild and it was burt but there was no metal shavings or anything. Royal Purple only lasted 15-20k miles... Filled the diff back up with $7 a quart Valvoline crap(85-140) that says it works with LSD(figure its better then what I had in there) and didn't have any FM. 2 days of driving and there isn't a single clunk in the rear even without additional FM. I'm really amazed how short the fluid life was on the RP and assumed it wasn't the problem since it was fairly fresh.

Also noticed that one of my exhaust hanger doughtnuts was torn really bad and hanging by a thread so I'll be stopping at Advance Auto and picking up a some. I figure its a faily univesal part, just gotta buy the right size.


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## BlackJackByte (Aug 31, 2009)

jpalamar said:


> Finally got the car on the lift to check things out. Strut mounts are fried but RR bushings look OK. Either way, I have a complete overhaul to do if I have the GTO... Lovells strut mounts, RR bushings, bumpstops, and 0 drop front and rear springs. I'm going with Monroe SensaTrack struts and shocks because lifetime warranty and good price. Its a DD, so I don't need super handling. Will also be adding an Energy Suspension master bushing kit to the mix. About $1000 or so out the door is what I'm guessing.
> 
> Hopefully, I'll have enough money left to widen my spare 17s and get some 275s on the back
> 
> ...


What would the metal shavings indicate? My diff fluid was like black syrup and had some metal shavings in it. Not trying to thread jack either sorry, remove if you want no feelings hurt.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

BlackJackByte said:


> What would the metal shavings indicate? My diff fluid was like black syrup and had some metal shavings in it. Not trying to thread jack either sorry, remove if you want no feelings hurt.


There will always be some, but if your dropping alot of metal it would indicate a ton of wear. When Julie's diff died, it was so bad you would of though someone spilled a big ass bag of glitter in it.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

I know your dead set on getting the Monroes. I just installed Pedders Comfort Gas shocks and so far they are not that much different than stock. They are suppose to be a progressive shock, I got them for $160 pair. I'm waiting on getting the front struts at tax season so I can finally get my Lovells 20mm drop springs thats been sitting on the shelf for about four months.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

I will probally end up going with Lovells struts/springs when it comes down to it since it is really only about $200 extra bucks. Might just have to wait on bigger wheels and tires a bit.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

jpalamar said:


> So I have 62k on my 04. Just got tires in April for inspection, replaced a bad tie rod, and took to the shop to have an alignement done.
> 
> Car drive straight, no weird vibrations, and steering is tight(as good as it can be with stock bushings).
> 
> ...


Dunno if I addressed the OP or not, but your car was biffed into a curb once, was it not? There is a thing called Toe Out On Turns, which is a designed in feature based upon the scrub radius (straight line drawn through the suspension/strut assembly down through the contact patch of the tire) that changes toe as you turn. If you've bent a spindle or a steering arm on the steering knuckle, it will affect this.

What I'd check is the distance between the tie rod end and the wheel on both sides of the car, it'd give you an indication if something is bent. Another thing to check is the length of the exposed threads beyond the tie rod ends. Both values side to side should be equal. A ruler or tape measure should be sufficient.


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