# Need input on what this car/engine is worth



## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

Hello all. Came across this 1967 GTO Clone and need some input on what some of you would pay for it. Here is what I know about the car:
I am selling my 1967 Pontiac LeMans with the original Pontiac 326 Engine, Transmission, Rear-end and driveshaft. This LeMans was transformed into a GTO Clone by the previous owner which any Pontiac Enthusiast knows is not an easy task for this year and model. The tail panel, front grill and interior have all been updated to NOS or new production GTO parts as well as emblems and an authentic metal GTO hood. The car made for an excellent daily driver up until a year ago when the transmission seized up on me. The motor and engine are definitely very tired and need to be overhauled. New fuel tank, new lights, all interior lights, radio, wipers, etc work, new interior and headliner.
I also have a Butler Performance Built 1966 Pontiac 421 with Aluminum 72cc Edelbrock heads (550 HP/500 ft lbs) (Copy of build sheet and balance paperwork attached). Also have a TCI Turbo Super Street Fighter Transmission and POSI GM rear that would complete the project for someone with the time to invest. I would let the car go PLUS the Butler motor, transmission, rear-end and many other spare parts. The motor has a blown head gasket and only has 200 miles on it with custom Ross pistons and Scat H-Beam rods.


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## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

Some additional pictures.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Hello hgiljr, and welcome to the GTO forum. Nice looking car but I'd like to suggest you read the following - http://www.gtoforum.com/f13/gto-forums-fs-ft-wtt-wtb-forums-rules-read-before-posting-16430/

:yesnod:


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Blown head gasket at 200 miles?? Something's not right.


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## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

ALKYGTO said:


> Hello hgiljr, and welcome to the GTO forum. Nice looking car but I'd like to suggest you read the following - http://www.gtoforum.com/f13/gto-forums-fs-ft-wtt-wtb-forums-rules-read-before-posting-16430/
> 
> :yesnod:


Thanks but I am not looking at selling. I just came across this car and wanted to know what the trained eye would see with this car and what it would be worth.


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## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

Rukee said:


> Blown head gasket at 200 miles?? Something's not right.


I had the exact same questions and the seller comment was:

I wanted a bad ass restomod so I had an expensive march pulley system put on by butler and a machined billet thermostat housing, all nice polished fittings, nice valve covers, the whole gammet of overpriced hardware, hoses and fittings, etc. This included a machined billet aluminum t-stat housing so I could easily find an upper radiator hose since the march pulley system interfered with oem hose routing. I picked this one housing because it would spin 360 degrees to help me get an upper hose that would route correctly. Unknown to me the neck on this housing was much narrower and there solution was a rubber sleeve. I had a heck of a time finding a rubber hose that would fit so I went with a cool-flex high dollar chrome hose that was flexible and put it on. Well these cool flex hoses are heavy and the motor has a lot of torque which equates to motor twist and it kept on popping off when I would get on it hard and when that happens and the engine is already at operating temp 180+/- the engine would heat soak quickly up to 230-240 because no water was flowing since it had blown out when hose blew off. Obviously I didn't drive in that condition but you can't stop heat soaking. Well I tried multiple types of clamps and brackets for the hose but it happened two other times and I ultimately had to go to a machine shop and have a new and larger neck machined and then installed some t-bolt aircraft hose clamps and synched it down. Never happened again. Unfortunately the damage was done after the third incident and I started noticing some steam out of the tail pipes (both) whenever I would really tromp on it and stayed in it. So I talked to Butler and they had me do a compression check and all was perfect, and there was no loss in power. The plausible culperate of the steam when everything was with the aluminum heads the increase In temps at a high rate most likely weakened a water jacket in the head gasket, they recommended re-torquing the heads and if that didn't work go with a thicker chometic head gasket. There is not water and oil churning (no mayonnaise) present or being made. Butler also said it could be still going through its break in period because it hardly has any miles on it.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

To me, a clone is worth less than a LeMans that hasn't been altered. The car shown needs the front seats done with the correct covers (has the no-pleat, poor covers on it that don't match the original rear seat), needs a dual gate shifter, needs the tail light stainless on the right side, and most expensively, needs the GTO stainless side molding installed. Car is probably worth, as it sits, 6k maybe. The engine, probably 2500-3500 as a core to the right buyer. Be advised that to any experienced car guy, any rebuilt engine, especially one with a known defect, is assumed to be a core and will be torn down and inspected/gone through. So you probably have 8500+ or minus as a package deal to the right buyer.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I doubt it has blown head gaskets, especially both sides. But it would be an easy fix being it's out of the car.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Oh sorry, I guess you are looking to buy? What is the asking price?


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## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

ALKYGTO said:


> Oh sorry, I guess you are looking to buy? What is the asking price?


Asking price for all is $14500. In regards to the head gasket and doubting it, do you think it might be something else that is wrong? This is one of the biggest fear for me as I invest into this purchase and then it really is not a head gasket but much more issues internally with the motor.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Hgiljr, definitely too high for a hacked up Lemans.  AMT1379 was trying to sell a real 67 on this site. I think about $16K. Matt


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yep. It's priced roughly twice as high as it should be. I would move on.


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## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

Guy lowered it to $11500. I did see the build receipt of the engine and it was over $7500 plus tranny cost which was around $3k. Still considered high with such drive train investment?


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## 666bbl (Apr 13, 2014)

I see red flags. "Steaming" engine issue? Spooky. Maximum value, ONLY IF the seller is willing to diagnose the engine before the sale (disassemble) would be $10K. That's what I'd call an "end user" price, or right for the guy that wants it very long term. There's good advice already regarding the interior and such, but in a short time it will be in need of a full body job with the floor rust and the bubbles in the back that you pictured. Unless you know a really good finisher the paint most likely can't be spotted in. It's a hot rod that happens to look like a 67 GTO. Good base for a race car too.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Agreed. Way too high a price for a clone that looks to need a full restoration. I think the $6 - 7000 range would be fair for everyone involved. If the floors have already started to rot through, the rest is probably paper thin and needs replacing. The rust bubbles could be the beginning of huge headaches. As for the engine, what damage has been done in the several times it has overheated. m If all the coolant was lost to a blown hose (three times sounds a bit odd to me), how hot did the engine actually get. The temp gauge may have said 240 but actual may have been hotter. Remember $7500 in receipts doesn't mean much if most of the work needs to be repeated or replaced. I will say that I do applaud the seller for his honesty, at least he didn't tell you the engine was tip top!

Keep looking. There are many nice cars out there in the $12 - 15000 range if you are looking for a half decent driver.


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## hgiljr (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks everyone for taking the time for posting and providing feedback. These forums are very valuable.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

"Steamer" could mean a cracked head, too. No way to tell for sure without tearing into it. Be very cautious.

Bear


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

The steam could just be moisture in the gas and the guy is paranoid.
I would be interested in doing a compression/pressure test on the cooling system


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

" Butler also said it could be still going through its break in period because it hardly has any miles on it."  "heat soak"? :skep:

The whole story sounds hokey. My opinion is the car body as a roller could see up to $6,500 if you did not find any sore spots -rust in trunk, rust around front/rear window frames, etc.. Roll down a window or two and peek inside with a flashlight if you can, and see how clean it looks. Would not take much to pop out the back seat bottom to look at the floor. All the items to make it a GTO clone are add-on's and readily and easily gotten and installed.

Pass on the engine/drivetrain. I think if it were up to 98% of us here on the forum, with 200 miles we would have put on, or had someone else install, a head gasket -especially if we had that kind of money in it. Just because the guy has a receipt for the engine, you won't know until you tear into it and then each part will have to magnafluxed and inspected to ensure you don't have a cracked block or bad head(s). Just doesn't sound right to me.


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## teamwoody72 (May 23, 2008)

if you buy it in my opinion it has to be under the assumption the motor is toast. May have a cracked block. you just never know. If you get it for right price it may be worth the gamble. Keep in mind no matter what you do it is a lemans. And an original lemans is a bad ass car. Look at Instg8ter 's car. Nicer than a lot of real gto's. I feel a lemans gets more respect than a clone. I considered a clone a while back but realized a restored lemans is worth more than a clone. These are just my opnions and I don't know diddley. $6500 to $7k max


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