# Goood buy for a a 400 long block?



## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

So at some point, some idiot put a 428 in my 66 GTO, lucky for me, I think a spun a rod bearing. I don't want to put any money in to this engine for obvious reasons... Long term (sorry purists) I want to do an LSx swap, but I just don't have anywhere near the amount of money I'd need to do this right for the time being. So that being said, I'd like to put in a 400 (or even a 389 if it came to it) to get me by for the next few years until I can afford to do what I want to do. Or I'll cram a truck load of boost and nitrous down the 400's throat instead... I don't know I'm not a doctor. 

Anyway, does anyone know of a place I can pick up a fairly priced 400? And my car is a driver... I put at least 10,000mi on it a year so I need something reliable. 

I found this, but I'm not sure if the years really matter all that much and I have no clue if this place is reputable. $2500 is about my limit for a long block, my understanding is I can reuse my intake/exhaust manifolds between them. If not, my car is going to be sitting in the garage for a while longer. 

Pontiac 400 6.6 V8 73-76 comp engine 

I know there area lot of guys on here that know a lot about these engines and was hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Well, if you have a $2500 budget, the engine you showed is over that already because the price is minus the $350 core charge. You have to add that plus truck shipping which will probably put you closer to $3000.

Might be cheaper to fix the 428 at this point.


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

It's not a hard budget, just kind of a too much to put in the car when I intend to pull the engine out in the next 2 years anyway. If it's over within reason, I'd still consider it. Maybe just keep her poncho powered a bit longer than planned. I just hate walking in to my garage everyday and seeing it sitting there. 

And I won't put anything in to the 428 cuz _*IF*_ it stays with an old Pontiac, it'll make more power than I want on the big mains.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Indecision said:


> It's not a hard budget, just kind of a too much to put in the car when I intend to pull the engine out in the next 2 years anyway. If it's over within reason, I'd still consider it. Maybe just keep her poncho powered a bit longer than planned. I just hate walking in to my garage everyday and seeing it sitting there.
> 
> And I won't put anything in to the 428 cuz _*IF*_ it stays with an old Pontiac, it'll make more power than I want on the big mains.



OK, I'm a little stumped on what your goals are. You have both short term and long term goals, each of which will cost $$.

Let's address the 428. Too much power for the big mains? De-tune it with a smaller cam and lowered compression. On the other hand, are high RPM's what you are looking for?

In my opinion, it does not seem worth purchasing one engine only to pull it in 2 years for another. You won't get much of a return on the rebuilt engine, so there will be a loss of $$ if you go that way.

If you want the Ls engine, then why not begin your swap now? I get the heebie geebies, a bad body rash, and break out into a sweat when someone wants to put an Ls engine in a Pontiac, BUT, I also can see some plus reasons for doing so -which escapes me right now, I'm old.:biggrin2: 

Why not put the 428CI in the corner in case you ever change your mind or sell the '66, and then go with a non-Ls rebuilt 350CI small block? Begin your swap now looking to the future Ls engine. A rebuilt small block goes for peanuts all day long. It will cost you way less than a rebuilt Pontiac and when you are ready for the Ls, you can probably sell the 350 more easily. The money you will save on a rebuilt 350CI could then be put on a good rebuilt heavy-duty automatic that will later bolt up to the Ls.

So if you're against the 428CI, and you're only looking for a temporary Pontiac 400CI, I'd simply begin my swap with the 350CI/rebuilt trans and be ahead of the game financially and project wise.


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm just worried about money in the short term... not long term. 

Short term goals are to drive the car. Long term is a NASTY DD (blown LS3, LSA, turbo LS7, etc) or I might keep it Pontiac and just rock 4mpg on the weekends... I don't car as long as it'll run single digits in the 1/4. My mind changes daily and in reality I imagine the car will go through a billion different setups as I get bored or break stuff. My last car did 10.8 @ 136 so I want to break 10.0 and/or 150 on my next real build. 

I'm a full time student and graduate May 2016 at which time I'll either start working and have the money for an LS swap OR have the money to make a big power Poncho. Probably the former as I like to daily drive the car and I can get 20+mpg on the LS while making decent power. Or even worse, (or better if we are talking about life and not the car,) I'll get in to business school and be broke an additional 2 years. As for why I don't do a rebuilt 350 chevy? I figure once I factor bell housing adapter, clutch, accessories if necessary, etc for the Chevy I'm probably better off with a 400 or 389. Or use the built T56 and twin disc clutch I have on a shelf in the garage, but then I have to pay someone to cut out and re-weld the trans tunnel. Plus.... if I'm going to put a Chevy in it, I want there be to a good reason for it... There's a benefit to LS based engines that isn't as simple as "it's cheap."

Also, if I go with a big power poncho, the 400 is a better base for it than the 428 because I'm leaning towards a blower and I want to be able to spin it out. Or maybe I'll get a big butler performance engine. I really don't know, I'm trying to make the best short term decision that doesn't include the car not running until I can afford the LS swap... THAT is unfortunately the most cost effective option.


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## ibarbuckle (Feb 24, 2014)

Please listen to Jim. And beware of buying crate engines. Unless you 100% trust the source, you will need to get so far into the damn thing (checking for cut corners) that you might as well build up the long block yourself.


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

ibarbuckle said:


> Please listen to Jim. And beware of buying crate engines. Unless you 100% trust the source, you will need to get so far into the damn thing (checking for cut corners) that you might as well build up the long block yourself.


I thought about trying to rebuild the 428 myself. Never done it, but I think I'm smart enough to do it and know a few people that have built engines that I could go to for advice if I need it. I've already got some Car Craft approved Silly Putty to check clearances and whatnot, haha. I wouldn't even know where to start for the machine work though... at the very least I'd need wherever the spun bearing is fixed. 

Maybe I'll look for a place in phoenix to rebuilt the short block and see what that will run me.

Also, couple things.

1) that's why I'm asking for advice on where to go... 

2) getting advice from multiple places is the intelligent thing to do.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Ultimately, its your choice and your dime. The thing is that when you begin to compare the Chevy vs Pontiac, you are doing apples and oranges. Each has its advantages. If you're thinking single digit 1/4 mile times, then you are already looking at a $10,000 or more engine plus driveline. I suspect at these prices, both engines now become equal.

Future Goal: The Pontiac engine becomes "unique" and the Ls is probably more practical. At the higher HP levels you will need from a Pontiac block, you could be on the ragged edge unless you go with the aftermarket KRE block and all the supporting goodies such as aluminum heads, forged pieces, etc.. 

Does it mean the Pontiac won't get you into the single digits? No, I don't think so. Just build for lower RPM's and big torque. I would not go supercharger as it will cost $$ to do the set-up on a Pontiac. Personally, I'd go with an add-on turbo or twin turbo set-up that runs off of the belts, not the exhaust. Build a good 461 CI 400 block using all forged parts. Get deep breathing heads, roller cam, EFI or TBI and add the turbo. 

I'd lighten up the body with fiberglass as weight kills 1/4 mile times. Run an automatic and Ford 9" or Dana 60 that will handle the power.

So your eventual future goal, be it Pontiac or Chevy, still looks to me to be a $20,000 drivetrain project to get into single digits. I honestly cannot be certain as I have never built a car this big or fast with a single digit 1/4 mile goal in mind, so you probably know better having a 10.8 car.

Short Term Goal: The present 428 in its condition needs to go to a machine shop where they can tell you what you need to do the repair/fix. If the engine was running OK short of the spun bearing, maybe just turn the crank, resize the rods/ARP rod bolts (use the original rods so you don't have to rebalance everything), new bearings, freshen the engine up with new oil pump & gaskets and go with it -and keep your RPM's down. You don't always have to do a complete rebuild and this would most likely be the cheapest out and get you by for a few more years.


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

Long term, I'm not worried about it... Whatever happens will happen when it happens. Though I can definitively say it'll never get centrifugal blowers, it'll either be nitrous, turbo, or a positive displacement blower.

Short term, I'm leaning toward rebuilding the 428 after talking to both you and a few others. Depending on what I am looking at for machine work... I think I'm gonna tackle the rebuild myself other than machine work, maybe bore it a little over depending on piston prices. 

I need find a reputable machine shop in Phoenix preferably if anyone has recommendations. 

My other concern is I have no clue what the engine actually is. I think it's stock with the holley carb and that's it... but I don't really know. And I'd like to think if I take it apart it'll at least go back together with a big cam.


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