# Heavy Soot Accumulation



## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Although I've ditched the CAI reverted to stock and reset the computer one week (~900 miles) ago, I'm still getting a lot of heavy soot accumulating on the bumper and rear surfaces of my car...inside the exhaust pipes is caked with the crap.

This thing is either still running very rich, or it is somehow not burning all the fuel thrown at it (which is another way of saying it's running rich).

I called the dealer, who of course said off the bat that "If it were running rich, you'd have a check engine light."

"Trust me. It's burning fuel in the pipes. Why it hasn't thrown a code, I dunno."

So, I've an appointment on Tuesday so that they can throw the thing up on the racks to determine WTF.

This car is really beginning to frustrate the _crap_ outta me.


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## ouijaguy (Mar 16, 2005)

i have the same crap....although i have and LS2, its still the same crap...


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

It's pissing me off, be sure.

I'm just voicing frustration here. Yes, I push my equipment hard but, _damnit,_ I take good care of it as well. 

...And God help the service guy who tells me this expelling of particulates is "normal." If he does, I'll tell him, "Fine. Smog the car. Now."


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

Get 'em GROUCHO!!!!!!


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Did a search on LS1tech...hmmm.it _may_ be a sticky PCV valve....


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

Hey Grouchy,

My new 05 really cakes up the chrome tips. Every time I wash the car I take my wheel brush and wheel cleaner to the tips and scrub like heck to get it off them, but I have never seen any of it on the body. If its heavy enough to get on your bumper cant you see it smoking black? Its really gotta be comin outta there like crazy.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

JMVorbeck said:


> Hey Grouchy,
> 
> My new 05 really cakes up the chrome tips. Every time I wash the car I take my wheel brush and wheel cleaner to the tips and scrub like heck to get it off them, but I have never seen any of it on the body. If its heavy enough to get on your bumper cant you see it smoking black? Its really gotta be comin outta there like crazy.


I can't see the smoke. I should have someone follow me....


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Groucho said:


> I can't see the smoke. I should have someone follow me....


Yeah right. Like someone is going to be able to keep up with you, let alone look for smoke. Maybe it's something YOU'RE smoking. LOL


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## silvergoat05 (Jun 15, 2005)

The black inside the tail pipes is a common occurence with unleaded fuel. To cover the rear fascia isn't.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Got it over at the local (LA) dealer for diagnosis.

We shall see.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Just retrieved the car from the dealership. There's nothing wrong with the car...it's "normal."

Whatever.

So...I'm going to stop bitching and continue to enjoy it, dealing with each tank of gas with a smile.

No charge from the dealer, BTW...which I thought was very cool.

On the way back, my buddy (w/ the '05) and I shut off the traction controls and had us a li'l Goat v. Goat duel down a stretch of San Fernando Blvd. Was a hoot. The looks on people's faces upon hearing the roar of GM V8s was classic. :lol:

The cars are very evenly matched on short runs. :cheers 


Wheeee!


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## cdb (Aug 3, 2004)

Groucho said:


> Just retrieved the car from the dealership. There's nothing wrong with the car...it's "normal."
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> ...


hey groucho, did they smog it while it was there ?


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

cdb said:


> hey groucho, did they smog it while it was there ?


The emissions guy they normally use was booked, and I had to take the car so I could get home tonight.

I'm taking it to an independent smog shop, pay them $40, and let them run it through.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

I've actually found some things that help alleviate the dreaded soot build-up:


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## GTODEALER (Jan 7, 2005)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## RiceEater (Jun 21, 2005)

rofl
:rofl:


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## Tom (Nov 1, 2004)

Get the car tested and report back.

As an 04 owner I will sleep better at night knowing your car is just blowing soot which should confirm that you didnt blow a seal.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Tom said:


> Get the car tested and report back.
> 
> As an 04 owner I will sleep better at night knowing your car is just blowing soot which should confirm that you didnt blow a seal.



Hey Tom,
It's California you know!!!! We should leave Groucho's personal life out of this discussion. They do things out there that you just wouldn't believe.

Really though, any test yet? What did they find?Any plans for a dyno tune?


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

fergyflyer said:


> Hey Tom,
> It's California you know!!!! We should leave Groucho's personal life out of this discussion. They do things out there that you just wouldn't believe.
> 
> Really though, any test yet? What did they find?Any plans for a dyno tune?


You're right...

From what I understand, all the smog machines here in The Worker's Paradise are networked...if there is a problem, my car would be labeled as a "gross polluter" and would cause all kinds of feces that you don't wanna know about. So...until I find out more, I'm hesitant.

I may or may not tune. I've spoken to several local tuners and they all state that there's not much they can do for me.

Like I keep re-iterating....it's a very hard-working daily driver. With my long distance / high speed commute, I ask more of this car than 99.5% of _all_ GTO drivers. I paid for the 100k mile warranty...or about two years of commuting. I see very little reason to give GM any reason to [email protected] with me should I develop a serious problem.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

I'd say, all in all, a smart move. You have 5 more years till you have to smog it, why mess up a good thing. At that point it probably won't be on the road, and you definately won't have it.


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## NoBMWforME (Apr 12, 2005)

Groucho:

On the flip side, if there is a problem smogging it, I would think it would fall either under your extended warranty or the emissions warranty. As I recall, the emissions warranty is 100K. I would rather know about it prior to the warranty running out. At your current mileage rate, you will exceed the warranty period on the emissions prior to a smog being required.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

Just thinking............ you probably buy your gas at same places due to constant long haul commute ?

did the dealer test your fuel ?

Seems like some of additives some dealers use to "stretch" fuel could produce this carbon


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## 04m6_ca (Feb 27, 2005)

*me too*

Well, I also have the "soot" on the rear-end. I have 16k miles and have always filled with Chevron Super. I have a K&N CAI, based on Groucho's testing, I don't think it is the intake though. I have a 54 mile one-way commute and at least 10 miles of it is stop and go in 1st gear.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

westell said:


> Just thinking............ you probably buy your gas at same places due to constant long haul commute ?
> 
> did the dealer test your fuel ?
> 
> Seems like some of additives some dealers use to "stretch" fuel could produce this carbon


I have two "normal places I get fuel- never thought of that. 

I may have the fuel checked out, because here's what bothers me: My car averages ~20.5 round trip on my commute. A buddy of mine, who drives an '05, recently did the return leg of my commute and had an average of ~24.5 mpg. If I duplicate his speeds and conditions the _best_ I've seen is 21 mpg. 

No soot on his car.


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## GTODEALER2 (Aug 11, 2005)

20'S MPG!!!!!!! I can only dream about that,, the best my car ever got on the highway is 22.6mpg, and 12.1mpg in the city. Now, I also used to have the soot problem on my SLP tips however I did used eagle one never dull and that seems to help make them easier to clean. Then I also used an octane booster on one tank that I had just filled up with premium and the goal there was to make it burn up any carbons. Now, I dont know how much each thing helped but it made a big difference on cleaning the tips and the soot.


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## JMVorbeck (Jun 1, 2005)

GTODEALER2 said:


> 20'S MPG!!!!!!! I can only dream about that,, the best my car ever got on the highway is 22.6mpg, and 12.1mpg in the city. Now, I also used to have the soot problem on my SLP tips however I did used eagle one never dull and that seems to help make them easier to clean. Then I also used an octane booster on one tank that I had just filled up with premium and the goal there was to make it burn up any carbons. Now, I dont know how much each thing helped but it made a big difference on cleaning the tips and the soot.


Weird, I get 18 city and I have a liberal foot. Drove it to Sebring on the highway and got an impressive 25 with the air on driving 80 when I could.


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## westell (Oct 4, 2004)

I'd go for a new set of plugs. Have dealer pull 'em. I bet there fugly :cheers


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

NoBMWforME said:


> Groucho:
> 
> On the flip side, if there is a problem smogging it, I would think it would fall either under your extended warranty or the emissions warranty. As I recall, the emissions warranty is 100K. I would rather know about it prior to the warranty running out. At your current mileage rate, you will exceed the warranty period on the emissions prior to a smog being required.


Definitely check the emmisions. If there is a problem the dealer will have to fix it. The only downside is the POS you will get as a loaner. Emissions are covered.


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## 04m6_ca (Feb 27, 2005)

*Groucho - do you still have this problem?*

Groucho,

Do you still have the soot accumulation problem? Are you back to the stock intake? I still have the problem and have decided that I can't let it go...


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

04m6_ca said:


> Groucho,
> 
> Do you still have the soot accumulation problem? Are you back to the stock intake? I still have the problem and have decided that I can't let it go...


It seems to have abated quite a bit. My mileage is back up a bit as well. I don't know whether to attribute this to the ECU "learning" the stock system again, the cooler weather, or what...

Weird.


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## ftlfirefighter (Jun 6, 2005)

Groucho, the LSX motor's run extreemly rich from the factory. Almost all of my Goat friends here have the soot problem but not me for some reason. A dyno session will let you know what your Air/Fuel ratio is without running the risk of reporting to Sacramento. I had my car dyno'd stock to get a base line (no soot) and it was in the 13.5 to 14.2:1 range. Another '05 with Major sooting was down in the 10.5:1 range!! Which CAI are you using? I think a good tune would do some good.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2005)

Is the Stock intake on it, or the after market? If i remember correctly, the Intake Air Temp Sensor is located in the inlet prior to the throttle body, is this plugged in to it's hole correctly if your using the stock intake, and if your using the after market , where do you have it placed?

I doubt that's the culprit, but it can't hurt to check.

I do agree with the Dyno testing though, they can give you the full RPM range / Fuel Ratio much better than an IM240 smog test can. 

*Also, is the thermostat the stock one, or are you using a cooler one?

*Have you had the Computer "Flashed" for added horsepower? this is done by richening it up, and it wouldn't set a light.


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## Groucho (Sep 11, 2004)

Rob in CT said:


> Is the Stock intake on it, or the after market?


I've reverted to stock, but even w/ the HSV intake, the the sensor was in the proper place. It would have thrown a code if not.




Rob in CT said:


> *Also, is the thermostat the stock one, or are you using a cooler one?


Stock



Rob in CT said:


> *Have you had the Computer "Flashed" for added horsepower? this is done by richening it up, and it wouldn't set a light.


Stock


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## Holden (Sep 10, 2005)

I would defiantly want soot problem fixed! I made the mistake of buying 2 new cars same time. Sick of Dealer excuses and saying everything normal. The famous computer would say if anything wrong, if the computer were the problem it would not know it had a problem. Bad gas mileage is expected with GTO but should be normal not soot on back of car! Complaints I have are minor so far compared to what I read here. I have 4 gas analyzer, they were required here in FL. until state did away with testing now its $6000 brick. We just did idle test doute if that would tell much. I think it would be worth doing a couple pulls on Dyno just for piece of mind if nothing else. If it generates proof of problem even better, you want best MPG you can get and car to run its best even if does seem to be improving. I plugged in Snap On Scanner to my 05 Friday just to see what it said should do OBD-2 Global Generic through 06 said no communication! Don’t know what is up with that will have to contact Snap On. The full 05 program won’t be out for another 6 months, what a crock for what we have to pay.


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## Holden (Sep 10, 2005)

Groucho said:


> On the way back, my buddy (w/ the '05) and I shut off the traction controls and had us a li'l Goat v. Goat duel down a stretch of San Fernando Blvd. Was a hoot. The looks on people's faces upon hearing the roar of GM V8s was classic. :lol:
> 
> The cars are very evenly matched on short runs. :cheers


Was the CHECK ENGIN LIGHT on in the 05?


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## ftlfirefighter (Jun 6, 2005)

hey Holden, your Snapon Analyzer may not work due to the 05's using a new Seimens ECM.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

ftlfirefighter said:


> Groucho, the LSX motor's run extreemly rich from the factory. Almost all of my Goat friends here have the soot problem but not me for some reason. A dyno session will let you know what your Air/Fuel ratio is without running the risk of reporting to Sacramento. I had my car dyno'd stock to get a base line (no soot) and it was in the 13.5 to 14.2:1 range. Another '05 with Major sooting was down in the 10.5:1 range!! Which CAI are you using? I think a good tune would do some good.


My LS1 Z28 ran rich before it was tuned. After tuning it was great, a lot stronger and no soot. My LS2 is stronger than any other stock GTO I have been at the track with. I haven't had any soot buildup on the exhaust either. I think they got the tune right on this one from the factory.


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