# pcv system and air cleaner set up.



## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

69 gto building a 461 and would like just a simple air cleaner on top on the qjet instead of the factory 2 snorkle air cleaner. I will be using the tradition pcv line from the carb to the valley pan and my question is do you have guys on the forum here have 2 breathers in either valve cover or just on the passenger? I had an oil leak out the rear main when I first got the car and the rubber hose from the air cleaner to the right valve cover was dry rotted and not sealing well. Got a new hose and breather element in the air cleaner and fixed the leak.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

On my 461, I'm running a breather in both valve covers plus one of those fancy adjustable PCV's. I managed to find round breathers that were the same size/shape "on top" but had different sized bases. One is smaller and fits into the rubber grommet on the passenger side where the air cleaner tube used to go, the other replaces the oil filler cap on the driver side.

Don't trash that dual snorkle factory air cleaner. I hear that they're getting hard to find and can be worth some money.

Bear


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## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

No sir I have kept everything on this car .. can you recommend the brand pcv for me ? Thanks


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Wagner is what we all typically use.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67 GTO PCV System Health and Reconfiguration


My 67 GTO has the original 400, which was rebuilt and using the original valve covers, with a breather on each, and the PCV valve in the valley pan. Having had 60 cars, I never once paid any attention to the PCV system. I never knew what it was for, never really cared, and I was like most of...




www.gtoforum.com


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

What these guys said above x 2


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## AV68 (Aug 18, 2021)

Wagner PCV x3


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## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks for the help. Hoping running a breather cap on right valve cover and this will prevent any issues.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Personally, I would NOT try to run "one" breather... unless your PCV valve is in one of the valve covers.

If your PCV valve is staying in the valley, then you'd want a breather in each valve cover, so that you can draw the gasses out of both high points in the engine, and out the valley.

But if you put the PCV in a valve cover, then dont put a breather on that same cover! Add one, preferably TWO, on the other side.

Many of us have problems ventilating the big displacements that these engines produce, and that results in blown seals and gaskets... as you found. Design it thoughtfully and it'll work well.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm running two breathers on the right valve cover and the PCV on the left front valve cover ported to the baseplate of the carb. This is the set up recommended to me by a shop that only builds Pontiac engines. So far I haven't seen any issue running with this configuration. A disclaimer is I don't have a ton of miles on my engine yet.


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## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

Butler valley pan with no pcv provision?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Personally, I would NOT try to run "one" breather... unless your PCV valve is in one of the valve covers.
> 
> If your PCV valve is staying in the valley, then you'd want a breather in each valve cover, so that you can draw the gasses out of both high points in the engine, and out the valley.
> 
> ...


This conversation sounds familiar, maybe I should unleash the pictures


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> This conversation sounds familiar, maybe I should unleash the pictures


Oh, do you have any?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

that's an artists rendition of bad showing me his breathers


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## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

I’m going with stock valley pan setup and a breather in each cover with the mc Wagner . Hope enough to satisfy this project ..


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Thats what I use


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

sameold01 said:


> I’m going with stock valley pan setup and a breather in each cover with the mc Wagner . Hope enough to satisfy this project ..


Just make sure they are good flowing breathers, my two were aftermarket billet ones like you see on some of the Butler motors but they had tiny holes so I did a little enlarging to say the least, and I have a Wagner PCV in the valley but I'm still popping the dipstick slightly on wot runs. If you can put the breather in your mouth, hold your nose and run around your house a few times without running short of air then it's probably ok, although idk what shape you're in


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## sameold01 (Jun 21, 2020)

I have 2 coming so I will one up you and do that outside.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

So for those of you who have the Wagner ME valve or going to get one I just talked to Gene the owner and they have some new tuning procedures to help with more flow. Here's a picture of page 6 of the shop manual from their site, it leaves the spring in the cruise adjustment but you do have to keep an eye on your plugs if you don't have an oil catch can because it could flow to much oil into the cylinders.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

sameold01 said:


> Butler valley pan with no pcv provision?


Yes. Valley pan is just a cut piece of thick aluminum. I hadn't peeled off the coating in this shot yet. Excuse my huge mess. That last weekend as I got ready to install the engine was very hectic.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

When I put mine on, I put on a Moroso air/oil separator at the same time just in case.
One of these:








Moroso 85474 Moroso PCV Air/Oil Separators | Summit Racing


Free Shipping - Moroso PCV Air/Oil Separators with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Oil Catch Cans at Summit Racing.




www.summitracing.com




Bear


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Well bear and Le Mans Guy, after watching discussion on crankcase systems for sometime now, I think I’m convinced. I have a breather on both valve covers, (462) and was using one of the $17 billet chrome Chinese pcv valves from summit, and never really thought I had a problem. I have a butler valley pan with no baffling. Frankly I don’t seem to be consuming oil, but had a bit of an experiment today. Pulled out the billet PCV and sucked on it, then compared it to a five dollar standard PCV and realize there was a tremendous difference! Clearly the five dollar version flowed quite a lot more, so I stuck it on for fun, and amazingly my idol is much smoother, predictable, and I’m sure flowing more air. With that said, I am now convinced I have been sucking oil whether I realized it or not into my intake, so that’s going to stop. Talking to the folks at Wagner, like everybody else does, I was convinced by gene that just adding a Wagner and not getting out that extra oil is not a good idea, so rather than replace the valley pan, I’m going to use an oil separator. So I have that same one you mentioned above ordered, question for you bear, how did you mount that? On the firewall? Could you show me a picture? I’m excited to get this installed and working, then to move to my Wagner. The moral of my story is that not all PCV valves are the same ( not including wagner) and I’m not going to guess about this. High quality catch can and Wagner is my path forward anyways. Thanks all!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Here's how I mounted mine


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Very cool, thank you bear! Novice question, from a guy who’s never mounted anything to a firewall before, literally how did you do that? Is there something behind the firewall to put a nut on, or is it a sheet metal screw? Thank you


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I used self-drilling sheet metal screws. Recently I bought a kit that does rivet nuts. I haven't used it yet, but the advantage is that they're not nearly as easy to strip out. Here's the one I got:
10 in. Professional Rivet Nut Setter Kit


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Thanks a ton bear! I think I’ll go with the black version, which I think is 85531. Thanks!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ebartone said:


> Well bear and Le Mans Guy, after watching discussion on crankcase systems for sometime now, I think I’m convinced. I have a breather on both valve covers, (462) and was using one of the $17 billet chrome Chinese pcv valves from summit, and never really thought I had a problem. I have a butler valley pan with no baffling. Frankly I don’t seem to be consuming oil, but had a bit of an experiment today. Pulled out the billet PCV and sucked on it, then compared it to a five dollar standard PCV and realize there was a tremendous difference! Clearly the five dollar version flowed quite a lot more, so I stuck it on for fun, and amazingly my idol is much smoother, predictable, and I’m sure flowing more air. With that said, I am now convinced I have been sucking oil whether I realized it or not into my intake, so that’s going to stop. Talking to the folks at Wagner, like everybody else does, I was convinced by gene that just adding a Wagner and not getting out that extra oil is not a good idea, so rather than replace the valley pan, I’m going to use an oil separator. So I have that same one you mentioned above ordered, question for you bear, how did you mount that? On the firewall? Could you show me a picture? I’m excited to get this installed and working, then to move to my Wagner. The moral of my story is that not all PCV valves are the same ( not including wagner) and I’m not going to guess about this. High quality catch can and Wagner is my path forward anyways. Thanks all!


I did the same thing with the the Chinese pcv before I went with the Wagner.


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Bear, with something as heavy as this, and screws going into sheet metal, how badly does it bounce around, and how confident are you that it’s not going to rip the screws and pull out? I know you must be, then again I haven’t done this before, but I’m just asking. I really like the rivet kit. Thanks


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Also, I noticed you didn’t use any screw type hose clamps. Generally, do you guys use those for your PCV connections? My cheap Chinese billet pcv valve was loose enough that I had to put one on, but it terrifies me to even take the valve out that the clamp might fall off, and then down into the engine! Do you generally avoid hose clamps in these kind of areas, like at the PCV?


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Bear, thank you for the recommendation! After a trip to my local Harbor freight, picking up coupons left and right, returning some old junk, I was able to purchase the nut rivet unit you suggested. The pictures below are some random scrap metal, but these babies go in very strong! I literally wrenched on a bolt as hard as I could on them, and they would not budge! Thanks for the suggestion, now all I need is my separator!


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## Ebartone (Aug 18, 2019)

Baaad65 said:


> I did the same thing with the the Chinese pcv before I went with the Wagner.


Below is the part in question, that I’ll be replacing…….


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

You can get high quality oil separators on Amazon for $20. Ive been using mine for well over a year and it works flawlessly. 








Amazon.com: RULLINE Universal 350ml Oil Catch Can Tank 0046 Aluminum Polish Baffled Reservoir Black : Automotive


Buy RULLINE Universal 350ml Oil Catch Can Tank 0046 Aluminum Polish Baffled Reservoir Black: Reservoirs - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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