# engine work



## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Hey everyone!

I finally broke open the engine and while I was prepared to find a 40 year plus engine with sludge and all I came out smelling like roses! Everything looks amazing inside(my machine shop guy said bolt it back up and drive that shit!), but since I have it out I figured I'd do some mantinace on it, I figured it have him put in all new bearings' brass freeze plugs' and clean the engine so I can paint it. What else would you guys do?

The history again is:
1967 GTO 
1972 400ci out of a GTO
1967 Dearborn 3 speed stock on my gto

I bought a new oil pan, water pump, distributor, and starter. Other than that I am open to any and all help. Thanks.

Chris


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

If you haven't already "opened up" the bearings, consider doing exactly what he said. But, if you want to do something positive to really make it stronger, consider replacing the rods with a set of good forged H-beams (and fresh bearings).

It's all a trade-off: cost, budget, time, etc. Got some "free cash' to throw at it?

Bear


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

I haven't torn it down completely, heads are still on it, pistons rod and everything else is in it, I just broke it down enough to see the top and bottom.


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Number 2


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Number 3


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

I just got off the phone with my machine shop guy and he said to pull a cap or two and see if it even needs bearings. I'll take some photos tomorrow and show you all what it looks like.


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Bearings were great, engine is in awesome shape, just cleaned up the Mickey T valve covers and the intake manifold, going to paint them tomorrow, then clean the oil pan and and paint it and the rest of the engine. I'll start the reassembly on Monday and hopefully I'll be running it on the engine stand by Wednesday. I'll take video if all goes well!


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

And one of the intake


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I would _definitely_ replace the rear main seal at this point. I would look into one of the new, one-piece viton seals that seem to be getting good ratings. You do NOT want to do a reseal, repaint, and detail job on this engine, only to have it start puking oil out of the rear main in 1000 miles. With the way everything else looks, and given your 8.2CR, I would indeed 'just run it'. Good luck, and keep us posted.


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

I bought ALL new seals and gaskets, EVERYTHING is going to be replaced that is not metal(and a bunch of stuff that is. I got a new starter, water pump, fuel pump, oil pump, alternator, and distributor. Hopefully it will all come together into a well running package. With that said does anyone have any advice on which headers to use? That's about the last thing I need to buy(for right now).


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

I wouldn't use headers.
Get a set of reproduction 2 1/2" HO/RA manifolds from Ram Air Restoration (R.A.R.E.) or your favorite restoration part supplier.


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

I am not the savviest person when it comes to engines but I thought headers had better flow and more HP? Why wouldn't I run them instead of the OEM style manifolds? Thanks so much.

Chris


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Chris, while this maybe argued by some, the HO manifolds have better flow than headers. Matt


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I'll argue that all day long Matt :lol:.

Maybe this will help you OP - Headers vs. Manifolds - Huge Aftermarket vs. Stock Exhaust Dyno Test - High Performance Pontiac Magazine


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'd argue with Matt too, but I'm getting tired of arguing lately. You can lead a horse to water............. SOCmedic, there are several threads covering this subject. Great information if you look into it.


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Well I truly appreciate it guys! Didn't mean got there to be an argument on my account!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

No argument from me.  I haven't put headers on any of my cars since 1975. I guess I didn't know what I've been missing.  All good. Matt


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

SOCMedic said:


> I am not the savviest person when it comes to engines but I thought headers had better flow and more HP? Why wouldn't I run them instead of the OEM style manifolds? Thanks so much.
> 
> Chris


Chris,
Please note that I recommended the OEM style HO/Ram Air style manifolds, NOT the standard "log" manifolds. Big difference!

With your 1972 400 engine that is apparently stock (or nearly so), the additional peak HP and torque from long-tube headers instead of HO/Ram Air manifolds will hardly be noticeable. My guess is you would realize about a 3% improvement in peak numbers. (long tube headers vs HO/Ram Air manifolds). To me, that's not worth the aggravation that headers usually provide.

The HO/Ram Air manifolds provide roughly equivalent performance to "shorty" headers. The manifolds fit well, seal well, last forever and they run quieter.

If this was a big-cam high performance build, I would recommend long-tube headers with appropriately sized primary tubes.

My 68 (428 street car) has Doug's long-tube headers on it; I would not do it again.

Just my $.02


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Chris, with your engine, in all honesty, if you closed your eyes and accelerated as hard as you could with headers vs stock log manifolds, you would not be able to tell the difference, all else being equal. Headers and high performance manifolds come into play with bigger cams, higher compression, and a lot more horsepower. What you want is something that fits well, looks good, is durable, and doesn't leak. The ideal? The HO or Ram Air manifolds that everyone recommends. There is a reason they come highly recommended.


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Done and done, seems to be great advice from experienced people, looking forward to HOPFULLY, firing it up on the ground on Tuesday!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"firing it up on the ground on Tuesday!"

Okaaaay. Let me know how that goes.:nonod:


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## RunninLeMans (Apr 3, 2014)

ALKY - good post on that article, nothing like a dyno test to get to the bottom of it! I have the Hedman shorty's on my '64 LeMans, they did clear everything, but I did install them while I still had the engine hung from the chainfall, so I was able to lift the motor, work them up from underneath, leave 'em loose while I installed the starter, then bolt up the headers. Then I did it again when I discovered I had the wire to the wrong post on the solenoid!


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

PontiacJim, what is the issue of firing up the engine while on the engine mount? I am confused with your reaction to that. Please let me know if there is something I am not thinking of.

Chris


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

SOCMedic said:


> PontiacJim, what is the issue of firing up the engine while on the engine mount? I am confused with your reaction to that. Please let me know if there is something I am not thinking of.
> 
> Chris


Chris,

Ya, safety. I was trying to picture how you are going to securely prop up the engine when you said you were going to "fire it up on the ground on Tuesday" - your words, not mine. Then I am picturing an engine rollover as you hit the throttle and the torque wants to roll the engine. Personally, never started an engine on the ground -my luck is an accident waiting to happen so I would not do it. So that is why my reply.


Make sure you prime the oil system like a new engine before you fire it up because it has been sitting or you could do damage to bearings.

Have a fire extinguisher on hand to CYA.:thumbsup:


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Ahhhhhh I see what you mean, I just ment out of the car on the engine mount, but I could see where firing it up "on the ground" would be a BAD idea! I have it in the shop and have all the necessary safety precautions to CMA! I'll make sure to treat it like a new engine so as to not hurt anything! Thanks for all the sage advice Jim.

Chris


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

SOCMedic said:


> Ahhhhhh I see what you mean, I just ment out of the car on the engine mount, but I could see where firing it up "on the ground" would be a BAD idea! I have it in the shop and have all the necessary safety precautions to CMA! I'll make sure to treat it like a new engine so as to not hurt anything! Thanks for all the sage advice Jim.
> 
> Chris


One thing about the computer is that in conversation you perceive what is written as being what you meant. LOL. It is also a black and white conversation where facial expressions, arm gestures, voice tone, and emotion are left out of the equation -so one may get offended where no offense was ever intended. That's why I use some of the smilies as a means of throwing out some of what can't be expressed in words.:wink2:

Just want to make sure you are safe -done some things that after the fact were definitely not done with common sense in mind, ie like getting married, not once, but twice, and thank god that's all done with and over, got my common sense back:rofl:


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## SOCMedic (Dec 31, 2014)

Hahaha no offense was taken, I am new to the mechanic part of all of this! I appreciate any "lessons learned" that can be passed on. The body work, metal, and paint I am good with BUT when it comes to mechanical stuff I am shooting from the hip, so if it looks like I am going to do something dumb via my post PLEASE I beg of you say something!!


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