# How to get me to 400hp at the ground



## bridogr1 (Mar 29, 2011)

I have an 06 A4. I am about to get kooks lt headers, kooks catted mids, ported throttle body, ported intake, svede otrcai, dyno tune. The tuner expects to be around 380-390. 

Is there anything else I can do to get me to the 400? Also what is cost if your suggestion?


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Bigger cam and you will be beyond 400


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## bridogr1 (Mar 29, 2011)

What is cost estimate for that and install? Also does it hurt tq?


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

I got an 06 A4 too. The A4s dyno lower. I've seen stock A4 05's and 06's dyno in the 320s, not all that uncommon. I think 390 is a stretch. 370 maybe. 380 I would guess on the high side. A heads/cam intake from any reputable aftermarket would get you into the low 400s. Costs around 2000-2500 depending on who you choose and how proud they are of their name and options. Mine is Texas-Speed and paid around 2100 for cnc ported LS3 heads with standard titanium retainers and .650 lift springs with optional hollow stem valves, a custom ground Comp cam, and heat treated pushrods. Lots of bang for the buck. Gotta get LS3 specific rocker arms and intake manifold though if you go that route, also bigger injectors and probably a bigger torque converter, unless you stay with a smaller cam.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

LS3 p&p heads are a little over the top for stock cubes, IMO. Stroked? Yes. Stock block? No. Might as well get 237cc cathedral heads that are specifically designed for a 4.000" bore.

Get the headers, and a mild cam. You'll hit 400.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Look at the cost of say a Trick Flow or AFR or Mast set of old style cathedral 225s, 235s, or 245s compared to the cost of a cnc ported set of LS3 rectangle port heads. Next, compare flow numbers at lift. I scratch my head as to why anyone would even bother going with the old style anymore. Why pay more money for less flow and horsepower? My heads flowed 349 cfm at .600 lift (not .650 like all the cathedral port heads advertise) and obviously flow even more at .650. You won't find a cathedral head on the planet for any price that will do that... The owner of my speed shop tried preaching Trick Flow 235s on me not knowing what heads I had in the car. After I showed him my Texas-Speed spec card, he nodded his head, then he shut up.

Consider these numbers. I paid about 400 less for a cnc ported set of heads with all the titanium and hollow stem goodies, a cam, and heat treated push rods then what a good set of cathedral port heads will cost you, and that's just for the heads. I saved 400 bucks and got a bad ass cam and push rods for free. Now take that 400 bucks and buy an LS3 intake manifold (I believe they cost in the upper 300s). Now all you need is a set up rocker arms (350 for stock, 500-600 for yella terra (if you trust they won't break on you), Crane charges around 600, and others get stupid high and charge up to 1600 hundred. So, we'll just average a set of rocker arms to be around 600 bucks. 

You are going to pay 500 to 600 bucks (chicken feed money in terms of what mods can cost) over the price of JUST a cathedral set of heads and you get a cam, push rods, intake manifold, and rocker arms along with it. Now go to the speed shop and do your 2 separate installs. Who's ass do you think is gonna get spanked when both cars roll out the shop doors. The car with the cathedral ported setup or the car with the higher flowing rectangle ported setup with a cam, intake manifold, rocker arms, and push rods to boot?

All I can say is, I had the pleasure of racing a heads, cam, intake 05 GTO last summer that also had a package from Texas-Speed but opted for the cathedral ported CNC'd heads. We raced twice from a 50 mph roll, 3 honks, etc. It didn't turn out good for him. The win was convincing.


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## 2004goat (Feb 10, 2010)

i would also get gears, taller gears like the 3.91 is like adding hp. if yout going to get a stall and a tune already you well want the gears.


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## Audi Killer (Mar 13, 2011)

I wouldn't focus on a hp# I've seen properly set up bolt on goats walk the dog on cammed ones at the track . Remeber how much time are you going to spend with your car wide open I vote for gears and a stall you will enjoy it more in every day life


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## Agenthol302 (May 18, 2011)

Falco21 said:


> Bigger cam and you will be beyond 400


:agree


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

To all above. 

Gears are great when you have the extra horsepower. The OP is running a stock cam right now, when you add a bigger gear set, your requiring more horsepower to pull from the taller gears. Why would gears be added before a cam? There is no purpose in reving the motor faster with bigger gears and no cam when all your basically doing is choking it out.

Another reason is although this car was not meant for good mpg, adding the gears will just deplete that. With a cam, you can have more power, go faster, and help your mpg.

All in all, gears are done when a bigger cam is installed. Putting in the gears after the cam allows the car to pull much much harder from all gears. If you install the gears, shifting will be a lot more faster and you will have a higher cruising RPM which will cause the mpg to drop. Not to mention, your first gear would be pointless.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Gears are torque multipliers so they help at any power level. 3.91s are a bit much for an A4 and honestly a higher stall converter would do some of the same thing and actually do more and be required for a decent cam. I wouldn't worry too much about HP. It's great for internet bragging but a lower dynoed HP auto with a 3,200 stall will spank a lot higher rated M6 at the track. For good lower end torque a lower lsa cam moves the torque curve down farther. My .612/.600 228/232 111 lsa cam put me over 400 RWHP with a beautiful torque curve on headers, 80mm TB and stock heads. Ported 243 heads just like on your car put me up into the upper 400s. If I had your car a stall and cam would come right after the other mods you're doing.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Falco21 said:


> To all above.
> 
> Another reason is although this car was not meant for good mpg, adding the gears will just deplete that. With a cam, you can have more power, go faster, and help your mpg.


My car lost about 2 mpg after the cam installation. It's not boost like a supercharger or turbo and only "there" at w.o.t. A cam is lumping and chugging and lurching and doing its thing just sitting at an idle. Mine went from 21 highway (with headers, catback, cai, and canned tune) to 19 and plummeted from from the 16s-17s city to 13.5-14, but alot of that can be blamed on the bigger torque converter.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

I think a lot of it is because of the converter and the way you started driving it after the install  haha

I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say every one who puts in a cam will get better mpg, but a lot of people do. Now, the big reason why people claim not to, it's usually due to the way its being driven. Cams create a lead foot so to speak. lol


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Never thought of it that way before. You may be on to something, and this whole time, being first out of the hole at a stop light, I just thought the rest of the world was slow, could've been me all along :willy:.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

A higher stall converter can eat up gas mileage as it's a little like a clutch slipping until it locks up. I get the same MPG after my cam on the highway with a stick but "city" is worse as it's too much fun going from zero to speed limit at every stop.


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## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Exactly! hahaha That's why when people state that a cam causes mpg to lower, the cause is usually the driver lol I have seen plenty of cars get the same gas mileage with a bigger cam. But this is the same argument with a turbo charger. People claim to get worse gas mileage, but what they don't realize is that there spending all their time driving in the specific power band. Whether they had a turbo or not, their the root of the problem.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

svede1212 said:


> Gears are torque multipliers so they help at any power level. 3.91s are a bit much for an A4 and honestly a higher stall converter would do some of the same thing and actually do more and be required for a decent cam. I wouldn't worry too much about HP. It's great for internet bragging but a lower dynoed HP auto with a 3,200 stall will spank a lot higher rated M6 at the track. For good lower end torque a lower lsa cam moves the torque curve down farther. My .612/.600 228/232 111 lsa cam put me over 400 RWHP with a beautiful torque curve on headers, 80mm TB and stock heads. Ported 243 heads just like on your car put me up into the upper 400s. If I had your car a stall and cam would come right after the other mods you're doing.


I thought if you were looking for a better tq curve, a higher LSA was better, like 114. More lift, but not so much extra duration... that kind of thing. I heard stock LS6/LS2 is like 116 or 116.5 LSA.

The one I'm looking at (which I'd believe would be a good choice for my needs) is the Torquer V2, which is 232/234 .595"/.598" and have it cut to 114LSA.

Alas, my knowledge of cam design is pretty limited.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

It's the opposite. Lower lsa lowers the torque curve and gives a higher peak.The higher lsa broadens the curve but raises the band up higher too and gives lower numbers. 

Technical Specs & Information

Here's a before and after of my head install. On both the torque starts low and is fat and pretty flat. Where you see the upper torque line (after the heads) start on the graph it's already at 400 ft/lb. That's why it's called the Street Sweeper HT. . . High Torque. The cam also has 4* advance ground into it which helps the torque also.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Wow, that's much flatter than I expected from a 111LSA. I remember the 108LSA cam I had put in the 400 in my 64GP acted kinda like a turbo, once you hit like 3000 there was a noticeable jump in power, it really squished you into the seat then.


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## bridogr1 (Mar 29, 2011)

I am also getting cam and trans cooler now. Still not sure what cam. Working with a shop that is going to spec one for me. He estimates I should get around 410-420 rwhp.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Getting the right cam is harder than picking from a few specs. Lots of people pick the biggest lift one when a smaller one might do better. It's really the entire grind (lift, duration, ramp rate, overlap, advance, etc), the install and parts used with it like the heads and other parts that determine suitability for use, drivability and power. I'm not an expert and that's why I used Ed Curtis at FlowTech who's one of the best LS cam guys in the country to help match me up with the right grind. Lots of places just use what they used before and get average results.


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## bridogr1 (Mar 29, 2011)

I am working with a local guy that has a very good reputation. He pretty much only works on GTO's. He asked me a ton of questions before picking out what CAM he thought would be best for me. I am pretty confident he is good at what he does and will hook me up with my best option.


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