# A leap of faith.. ? 4 all u gto guru's



## KAOSRACING (Feb 7, 2011)

GOT MY SELF INTO A GOOD ONE..LOL.. I DO MOSTLY 1/8 MILE RACING AND DRAG HOTRODS BUT JUST UNLOADED A (TRYING TO BE MINI) RESTO
65 LEMANS,TEMPEST, GTO?
A REAL GEM HEAR..LOL MY HEAD IS HURTING MORE AND MORE EVERYDAY..:confused

ANYONE EVER HEARD OF A 65 LEMANS TEMPEST GTO WITH A VIN TAG STARTING "252", 25237
I HAVE BEEN GOING DECODING CRAZY FOR THE LAST 2 DAYS.
I KNOW GTO'S ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 242, AND 252 COMES UP CATILINA
ALTHOUGH I FOUND THE BODY TAG HAS 65-23737 WHICH I FOUND ON LINE THAT IT IS A 65 2 DOOR SPORTS COUPE (HARD TOP 10) 
WHICH IS GTO OPTION
ALSO FIGURED OUT TODAY THE ENGINE IS A 65 389 WITH 65 389 HEADS.
ANY OPINIONS OR INFO FROM YOU 65 GUYS OR ANYONE ELSE AS WELL WOULD BE GREATLY APPRICIATED!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

In '65, the GTO was Lemans option(382). There was never a 242 in '65. If yours is a 252 and it comes up a Catalina, the vin tag has been switched. That just makes zero sense why someone would do that. The vin should start out with 237. I take it, it doesn't have a post? Do you have pics?
A 25237 is a Catalina/Ventura 2dr hardtop......

What's the stamped 2 letter engine code located where it sez "1965 and later" in the pic?


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## KAOSRACING (Feb 7, 2011)

Its a yc and car has no post i will put up pics soon.
the casting numbers on the block are (back by the dis) 9778789
and the head has gm 77, after looking on line i came up with 65 389.
Yea i know its strage with the 252 in the vin.. My guess was switched as well... But catilina?
What about the body tag..23737? Thats gto option?


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

The only way to know for sure if a 64-65 or 72-74 is a GTO is to check the build sheet. PHS can do that for you, the VIN didnt have a separate number for those years because it was a model option on the LeMans/Tempest or in 74 Ventura.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

KAOSRACING said:


> Its a yc and car has no post i will put up pics soon.
> the casting numbers on the block are (back by the dis) 9778789
> and the head has gm 77, after looking on line i came up with 65 389.
> Yea i know its strage with the 252 in the vin.. My guess was switched as well... But catilina?
> What about the body tag..23737? Thats gto option?


Your going to love this. A '65 YC, 9778789 block was originally in a b-body, aka Catalina(or the like). 77 heads were correct for a '65 389. 23737 tells you it's a Lemans hardtop. Like already mentioned, it does not tell you whether it's a GTO or not.... The engine originally was in a A/C car and had a 2 barrel w/automatic.

Maybe someone swapped the engine out of a Catalina and took the vin too thinking they were keeping it #'s matching(someone who doesn't have a clue what they're doing).. Who knows what happened...

YC B-body 65 389 290 Turbo 400 1x2 9778789 2 AC


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

kAOSRACING, do you have the ability to post digital photos of both the VIN tag and the Data tag?

Bear


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## KAOSRACING (Feb 7, 2011)

I FOUND THIS ;

1965 Pontiac Body Plate Data

MY BODY TAG READS ;STYLE- 65-23737 PON 7444

TRIM 213-B

BEAR, I'M TRYING TO GET UP PICS TONIGHT, ITS A BIT TOUGH THEY ARE HARD TO SEE WITH A CAMERA


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## KAOSRACING (Feb 7, 2011)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3905463/1965-pontiac-lemans

double click on it and it should get bigg enough to read.

just put a few more up...

thanks 4 the interest and help green goat... yea it seems to be getting better and better by the day... lol


thumpin 455 were in sc did the 65 come from?
i'm in summerville


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

KAOSRACING said:


> http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3905463/1965-pontiac-lemans
> 
> double click on it and it should get bigg enough to read.
> 
> ...


I looked at your pics, the VIN rivets look different from the ones on my 65. I brought up a pic I have of it and compared them. Why someone would put a Catalina VIN on it is beyond me. It definitely look sswapped compared to what I see on mine.

I got it in the upstate near Greenville. Found it down there a year after I moved to Michigan.

I was stationed in Charleston for 5 years, lived off Dorchester road. Used to race at Low Country and Dorchester. Still have LOTS of friends down there. There was a green T37 in West Ashley not far from the first exit on 526, but the guy thought it was worth gold despite being a 350 2 barrel car. Used to be a black 421 Catalina 2+2 about 4 blocks from King Street, but it vanished around 2003.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

KAOSRACING said:


> http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3905463/1965-pontiac-lemans
> 
> double click on it and it should get bigg enough to read.
> 
> ...


12A 2(assemble date)
12 - Dec
A - 1st week
2 - maybe 2nd shift

Body(assembly plant)
PON - Pontiac MI
7444 - body # assigned by Fisher

Trim 
213 - Black
B - Buckets

Paint
A - black

2BG
2 = Group 2
B = floor mounted 3-speed syncho-trans
G = console

5N
Group 5
N = GTO


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## KAOSRACING (Feb 7, 2011)

thanks green goat.. so what doest that mean body tag says its gto?

and a swapped vin.....real nice...lol oh well.. 
i will try my best to make it a driver.. not a major resto..im just going to do my best to get it together.
i have some papers from phs saying its an obvious mistake from the factory.. but i am not sure just sounds fishy.. i will have contact them my self to see if there are actual recorded mistakes like such

kool thumpin455.. i am off dorcheter road as well. low country shut down so we go to dorchester track allot..
i'd like to see a pic of your vin if possible.what rivets look like ect.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Yep. Not sure what's up with the vin.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

68greengoat said:


> Yep. Not sure what's up with the vin.


Well, I'd say there's a least a chance that it's been stolen and re-tagged at some point in its past.

I don't remember, KAOS, if you said you thought it had the original motor or not. If it does, the trailing part of the VIN ought to be stamped on the lower passenger side of the block, next to the timing cover. You could at least check to see if it matches the tag on the door - which it would on a numbers matching car.

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Vin references were stamped on the engines beginning with the 1968 model year. I would check the drivers side rear frame rail, on the top side after the rear wheel area. Good luck.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

KAOS, that vin tag of yours looks exactly like the one on my '65 Fremont built GTO, which I've had since 1982. It does not look like a swap job to me. The trim tag is kinda boogered up, but it too looks original. I'm betting you have an authentic, Black on Black 1965 GTO. I think the VIN was a factory screw-up. You NEED to find the frame vin, and you need to get the PHS for sure. Some Pontiacs of this vintage also have a vin stamping on the inside of the trunk rails, near the seal on the sides between the seal and the fender. Mine does, but they're not legible (filled with factory paint). At least I THINK it's a VIN #.....My gut tells me you stumbled on to a real GTO, in a kick a$$ color combo, to boot.


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## KAOSRACING (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks bear...going to work on that....


Geeteeohguy.. Wow thanks for the positive input.. A friend of mine had mentioned the frame .. Nxt sunny day i will search the car high and low... I only brought it home last thursday. Its been hectic around here with sick kid and rain... But removed the wet interior and what was on 4 a nose....
Thanks.. I will search this heap next off and sunny day from work!!!


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

my 66 also has a partial vin on the firewall visible when i removed the a/c box.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Here is the way mine looks. Of course it could have been different since it came from another plant. Just my opinion, heck mine could be wrong too!










Checking the rear part of the frame would be a good place to look, if it isnt rusted as bad as mine was. There was no way you were going to get a VIN from that frame with the pitting.


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