# rusty 67 GTO worth getting???



## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

hello guys new to this forum... i found a 1967 GTO hardtop for a father son project (im the son) but i have no idea of what i might be getting myself into. i was told by a restoration shop that the car was not worth restoring... although he is a restoration shop he specialized in corvette mostly, so i figured id get a 2nd opinion from a broader spectrum of people on the topic. the car is located in the swampy south, so the rust is epic. floors are completely rusted through trunk is rusted through quarters are rusted through. the resto shop said the only thing valuable on the car was the vin tag and trim tag..... but for $1800 i figured it was worth it...... i have about 10000 to invest in a car... im in so Cal........ so worth buying or spend my money else where? any opinions would be greatly appreciated!


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

We all dream of getting Cali cars. If it has rust and you can get one without, get the latter. Rust is expensive to fix, and hard to stop. The vin tag comment is accurate.


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## 67GTO4SPD (Oct 4, 2012)

inglewood-bandit said:


> hello guys new to this forum... i found a 1967 GTO hardtop for a father son project (im the son) but i have no idea of what i might be getting myself into. i was told by a restoration shop that the car was not worth restoring... although he is a restoration shop he specialized in corvette mostly, so i figured id get a 2nd opinion from a broader spectrum of people on the topic. the car is located in the swampy south, so the rust is epic. floors are completely rusted through trunk is rusted through quarters are rusted through. the resto shop said the only thing valuable on the car was the vin tag and trim tag..... but for $1800 i figured it was worth it...... i have about 10000 to invest in a car... im in so Cal........ so worth buying or spend my money else where? any opinions would be greatly appreciated!


It would definitely be worth $1800, but it would be a pricey project. There's more $1800 woth of parts there, and if it has the original engine, trans, and rearend it would be a big plus. Is it a 4 speed car or auto?


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

it is a 4 speed with a hurst shifter..... the resto guy told me im looking at $60000 to get it back to its original form.......... and that some old cars are just "not worth" restoring


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

You are looking at $10,000 worth of body repairs, then add $2,000-$3,000 for the interior, $3,000-$5,000 in rebuilding the drive train, $700-$1,000 for glass and trim, $600-$1,000 for chrome plating and probably $5,000-$10,000 for other items and repairs. I had several thousand into blasting cabinets, a rotessorie, stands, hoist, painting guns, welder and a compressor.

Total cost could easily run between $20,000-$40,000 doing it yourself. Total time for a father-son project could take 2-10 years. IMHO, find a car that needs a few repairs for $10,000-$20,000 and spend your time enjoying the car. 

I have pictures in my photo album of a 66 full frame off and a 67 front clip removal and restoration, on the 66 I hired 3 guys to help me get the body work completed and painted. Here is a link where I started with the 67 and then the 66, from this page go in reverse order;

http://www.gtoforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/27/ppuser/417


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## skurfan (Sep 19, 2012)

Have you considered hat your Corvette "expert" just didn't want the job? A guy will spew anything if he doesn't want he job or only takes the easy stuff. I would get a second opinion or third but looks worth the money to me.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

ill upload more pictures.... it really bummed me out to hear it wasnt worth it! the 67 is my (magical unicorn) as i thought it would take some time to get it running...... i figured id get a few opinions on it before i cancelled the idea of picking it up


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

i dont even know what the hell the first picture is???


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

rear quarter i think? i see the differential


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

what you think? worth saving


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

additional shots


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## fasterfiero (Sep 6, 2011)

To me, it looks like a car for a guy in the business of restoring old cars. Great advice from 05gto. If you are not married to that car look for another and you will be surprised at what you can find, The 67 you found is one heck of a project.........


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## harlan41 (Aug 19, 2012)

RUN, don't walk


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## 67GTO4SPD (Oct 4, 2012)

Wow - yeah, she's way worse than I thought. The 4 speed makes it more desireable, but that car really needs a whole body transplant, and judging by the pics, the frame is probably damaged, too. Its hard to look at them in that shape.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

wow ill retract my last offer and submit a new offer of $1000


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Of your four pic sets... the first of each are basically an under and over of the same area of the trunk and spare tire... (NOT GOOD!)

I agree that there is $1800+ in value there, but that car is a lost cause. WAAAAY too much rust for the expense of replacing it. Now...that could all go out the window if the car has a historic significance, or was a documented factory or otherwise well know race car (unlikely).

I'd stay diligent and find another car. I (admittedly) got an incredible deal on a VERY clean 100,000 mi. 1967 survivor car. The point is, they're out there if you cast your net far enough and remain patient.

Good luck!!

Chuck


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## 67GTO4SPD (Oct 4, 2012)

chuckha62 said:


> Of your four pic sets... the first of each are basically an under and over of the same area of the trunk and spare tire... (NOT GOOD!)
> 
> I agree that there is $1800+ in value there, but that car is a lost cause. WAAAAY too much rust for the expense of replacing it. Now...that could all go out the window if the car has a historic significance, or was a documented factory or otherwise well know race car (unlikely).
> 
> ...


Agreed! 
I will say that if the owner would accept $1000, I would buying no matter what if you plan on getting a '67. At that price, you would have parts, and you could actually make money on it to help fund your other one. Any car with a good Muncie included in the deal is worth $1000.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

greatly appreciate all the feed back guys, i guess ill let her burn and continue the good fight


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## bayou4us (Nov 27, 2011)

That car is too far gone to restore. It's just good for parts now.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

What about the vin and trim tag with motor and trans..... for $1000 or is it useless because i have nothing to put it in?


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## 67GTO4SPD (Oct 4, 2012)

inglewood-bandit said:


> What about the vin and trim tag with motor and trans..... for $1000 or is it useless because i have nothing to put it in?


I'm not sure the legality of putting the tags on another car. I know you can buy a whole body for Camaros, Firebirds, and some Chevelles, but I don't know it possible to do it on an existing car. The GTO specific engine, 4 speed, trans, bucket seats, clutch pedals, console if it has one, trim parts, and other things are worth well more than $1000. I've seen used GTO grill assemblies sell for $300+. It is definitely not useless if you cab get it for $1000.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

He basically said f*** off


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

not unless your a professional mechanic, engine builder, machinist, welder, own your own body shop, buy parts at trade prices, and have alot of time on your hands. you can buy a driver for alot less then it would take to restore it. then take it from there what improvements to make. rickm.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

pass on this one- save some pennies and buy a car with much less rust- and in the long run you will save many dollars


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## 67GTO4SPD (Oct 4, 2012)

inglewood-bandit said:


> He basically said f*** off


Was $1800 his bottom dollar?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

inglewood-bandit said:


> He basically said f*** off


He did you a favor!


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## pontiac_boy (Jul 9, 2011)

http://www.gtoforum.com/f13/1967-lemans-gto-clone-39312/

Maybe we can help each other out.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

67GTO4SPD said:


> *I'm not sure the legality of putting the tags on another car.* I know you can buy a whole body for Camaros, Firebirds, and some Chevelles, but I don't know it possible to do it on an existing car. The GTO specific engine, 4 speed, trans, bucket seats, clutch pedals, console if it has one, trim parts, and other things are worth well more than $1000. I've seen used GTO grill assemblies sell for $300+. It is definitely not useless if you cab get it for $1000.


Absolutely illegal in all 50 states!


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

1800 was his bottom dollar........ and i have to spend another 800 to drive and get it... i didn't know it was illegal to put the vin on a new body! I figured if there wasn't much of a body left how can you restore it?


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

inglewood-bandit said:


> 1800 was his bottom dollar........ and i have to spend another 800 to drive and get it... i didn't know it was illegal to put the vin on a new body! *I figured if there wasn't much of a body left how can you restore it?*


Some cars you just don't, at best you just try to recover any usable parts....


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

I guess ill go cry now....


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

inglewood-bandit said:


> I guess ill go cry now....


Maybe, but better now than after you've started to sink your hard earned $$$$ into it only to discover you're working on a lost cause.

Cast your net, use your contacts, put the word out... They are out there! When you find it, you'll be happy!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

That is a parts car only. Even if the car were free, and given to you, you really WOULD spend 40-100,000 to turn it into a 30,000 car. If you need some parts, go for it. As a driver to restore, you'd be absolutely foolish.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

inglewood-bandit said:


> I guess ill go cry now....


Here is a 67 project on e-bay that has a ton of work and money dumped into the car, Comes with 2 blocks, trunk pan and floor pans.

Pontiac : GTO Hardtop in Pontiac | eBay Motors


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

No reason to cry. You should be out celebrating the fact that you won't be squandering 100's of man hours and tens of thousands of dollars on a total lost cause. Now you will be able to find and purchase a GTO in much better condition.


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Inglewood;keep looking. Find a nice, rust-free car in the southwest and have fun improving on what you buy.

That 67 was NOT worth buying. Be glad you didn't pull the trigger on it!!!


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

This forum needs a like button to respond. I agree, keep looking. I wouldn't go to Wisconsin to buy a car, that is rust belt, but looks like it is all there. Good luck in the search. If I had a fresh build and wasn't Pontiac crazy, I would build a chevelle, camaro or Mustang. The parts are 1/4 of GTO prices and the resale price of the cars is equal to a Lemans or lesser GTO. GTO's are pricey to build, Chevelle bumper, $150, GTO $450;.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

Yeah i told him it was worthless he dropped the price down to $1000..... i told him no thanks.......... i wonder if most barn finds from the south are like this!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

A Chevelle is cheaper to buy parts for and will nearly always pull more money at sale time than a GTO. They were cheaper and more affordable than a GTO when new,they made more of them, more people have personal experiences and memories with and of them, so they are more popular than GTO's. I always liked the look of the '64-'67's, and the '70. The '64-'67's have super cheesy interiors compared to the GTO, though. Not as cheesy as a Mopar, but still definitely down market. Keep looking for a nice Goat. The market is SOFT right now. Just missed out on a restored '66 4 speed car that was immaculate....went for less than 15k. I saw the ad too late. Keep looking, and be "johnny -on-the-spot".


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

inglewood-bandit said:


> Yeah i told him it was worthless he dropped the price down to $1000..... i told him no thanks.......... i wonder if most barn finds from the south are like this!


Gee, so much for $1800 being his bottom line price...... He knew he had junk, except for a few parts....


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

First question to ask yourself is, what will you do with it? If you're looking at doing it as an investment to turn a profit, that ain't gonna happen with this car. You'll spend way more to restore it than it would ever sell for. However, you said it was your holy grail car. If that means you'd be doing it for yourself with no intention (or hope) of ever recouping your money, and you don't care about that, then the only opinion that matters is yours.

I'll tell you this - if you want a 67 GTO, you'll be able to find one "ready to go" for a lot less than you'd spend getting this one going - you'll just have to be patient and keep looking. 

I don't like passing judgment on "worth" questions. That's a very personal and individual decision.

However, if for some reason this specific car "has a hold" on you and has become emotionally significant, then I'm not going to tell you to not restore it. It can be done. I've got a 69 GTO that means that much to me, and I'm one of those who spent more on it that it will ever sell for ---- and I'm as happy as I can be with that 

Bear


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

I'd be comfortable spending money on it with "some" return on it but if i have to spend 60000 on a car thats only worth 30 I'd feel un-easy about it . I planned on keeping it for at least 20 years.......... just to say i had an old school muscle car.........excuse my "newby-ness but i checked nada guides and with all the options on a 67gto that this one had ... they priced it to sell for around 82000. But with this economy i know to subtract at least 20000..... i thought gto's where pretty valuable considering you don't see this very often. The camaro, chevelle, mustangs are so cookie cutter given they are still badass.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Not sure where NADA is getting their classic car valuations, but I question them. That same site values my car at $63,000, yet I saw one cross the block recently on one of the Barrett Jackson auctions that was 100% original and in perfect condition for just a tad over $18,000.

I guess I'd like it better if $63,000 was the truth, considering that would make it worth only slightly more than I've spent on the car ---- but I'm doubting that's the case.

Bear


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Keep looking.
The market is soft; there are some great buys out there.
Not sure what your budget is, but this car just sold for $18k.

Not original engine, but a RA III with original M-21. Great looking car...

Pontiac : GTO Ram Air III in Pontiac | eBay Motors


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

That '67 looks like it was just hauled up from the wreck site of the Titanic. RUN AWAY!!!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

> I'd be comfortable spending money on it with "some" return on it but if i have to spend 60000 on a car thats only worth 30 I'd feel un-easy about it .


That's it, you'll have to dump so much money into it you'll never see that "return" your looking for.



> i thought gto's where pretty valuable considering you don't see this very often. The camaro, chevelle, mustangs are so cookie cutter given they are still badass.


You're right about the GTO, except they are not as valuable as the other cars you mentioned as a whole. There are some exceptions. Reason being, they're not in high demand. Those other cars are and bring in more money.

I'm sure you watch Barrett Jackson. Unfortunately, that show is helping to drive the market. Camaros, Mustangs, Chevelles seem to always bring in good money. GTOs, not so much. They seem to lack the respect they deserve.

You've been given a wealth of information from guys that know what it takes to restore these rides. But, ultimately it's your decision because it's your money. Spend it wisely......

Where's Mitch and the "basket case" when you need him??????? :willy:


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

WOW, this story sounds so familiar, I could've written it...

It always amazes me when people from Cali look in our neighborhood for cars. Don't look any further East than central TX or North of KS if you want something decent to start with. 

Click on the link in my sig of my ordeal. I just COULDN'T pass up this car for ONLY $1500. I now have well over 7k in it and as the pics show, it isn't close to done. I really like this car and it will be solid and nice when finished but I've bought 2 cars since that I can drive and I'm losing interest in finishing this. It will be coming back out of storage soon to finish welding the floor in for transport.

If you really want a project, PM me. I have almost everything but a trans to make it a "driver", in loose terms. It doesn't have the Chev 12 bolt axle anymore but does have a '70 Buick 8.5 10 bolt that is very strong.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

inglewood-bandit said:


> I'd be comfortable spending money on it with "some" return on it but if i have to spend 60000 on a car thats only worth 30 I'd feel un-easy about it .


More evidence to question those NADA valuations. I was watching the Mecum auction over the weekend and saw a genuine 1964 GTO that had received the Royal Bobcat treatment (it was a tri-power 421). It had everything going for it -- Red paint, 4-speed.... it was a no-sale because the bids didn't go any higher than $25,000. Folks can theorize until the bovines return to the domicile about how much a car is worth, but on any given day the value of any car is determined only by what someone else is willing to pay - and nothing else.

Bear


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

NADA values are for banks to justify loaning 100% or more than a vehicle is worth to get your money. Those values have always been inflated and at this time are at least 5 years behind reality. Bear is right, nothing is worth more than someone is willing to spend and in this economy, the prices are very low.

I find Kelly Blue Book to be more realistic.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

First off, glad to hear from you, Mitch, and anything I can do to help you decide to finish the '67, let me know. Secondly, I agree with you, Bear, about pricing.....I've been looking in many places on line lately, and even nice, no-issue GTO's are not selling for "buy it now" or reserve prices. Not even close. There are some VERY nice cars out there right now that can be picked up for a song, and I mean about 1/4 of the price of a restoration.


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## inglewood-bandit (Oct 18, 2012)

I've found a few impala convertibles for really good prices....... but i want something a tad more muscle like.......... kelly blue book offers no classic car values? At least not on my computer.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

inglewood-bandit said:


> I've found a few impala convertibles for really good prices....... but i want something a tad more muscle like.......... kelly blue book offers no classic car values? At least not on my computer.


Wow, they really dropped the ball on us. I can't even find a link on their site to buy the classic value book anymore ... I used to be able to access that book on line but it doesn't seem to exist.


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## jjenkins (Sep 11, 2011)

classic car prices here

Car Prices, Used Car Value, Book Value | NADAguides | NADA Price, Car Book Value, Specs, NADA Trade In Value & Cost Guides | NADA Book Prices & Car Costs Guides | NADA Car Value, Car Appraisal Book Value, Owner Cost, NADA Auto Value Appraisals & NADA


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## keoni1978 (Dec 1, 2004)

you can actually value your car/a car at hagerty.com as well.


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## 67GTO4SPD (Oct 4, 2012)

This crusty, rusty ol' GTO has hit the 'Bay...

Pontiac : GTO GTO 4SPD in Pontiac | eBay Motors


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

WOW, that car IS rugged. It may be worse than what I started with...:willy: I'm hard pressed to believe the frame isn't rusted too. At the very least, all the body mount holes must be gone. My frame had sections from a donor in 4 places and the front 1/3rd fell off when I removed the clip...

By the trim tag, I'm betting it had a 3 speed from the factory. There's no 2L on the tag to indicate it was ordered with a 4 speed. Be interesting to see the PHS.


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*gto rot*

WOW! That must have sat in a salt marsh for about a decade! You can bet your bottom dollar that frame is completely rotted! You might get a couple of pieces of scratched glass out of it, or a dry rotted console or cracked-up dash out of it, but I doubt much else. A lot of MONEY and a lot of TIME are the major factors here. I've been out in the garage for 8-18 hours nearly every day for the past 15 months straight, and it STILL has a long way to go.(Well, much closer now, but not done by a long shot). It would take you 10 years if you had a full time job and/or school! AND you would be a very poor man in the end. Thank your lucky stars you didn't commit to it!!!!! Like the others said- there are better deals than that.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I can't _believe_ it just sold for $2700. Seriously, I wouldn't have taken it for free...too much time and effort to get RID of! In 1986, I bought a rough but complete '67 GTO hardtop for $75.....It was a numbers matching car that needed everything, but had no rot or rust. I used it for some parts and gave the rest to a friend. Those were the days! Today it would have probably brought 7 or 8k......oh well!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Any bets on a Tempest getting "new" tags ....
NO ONE is going to rebuild that body...


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## idreamofjeannie (Feb 24, 2017)

67GTO4SPD said:


> It would definitely be worth $1800, but it would be a pricey project. There's more $1800 woth of parts there, and if it has the original engine, trans, and rearend it would be a big plus. Is it a 4 speed car or auto?





harlan41 said:


> RUN, don't walk





inglewood-bandit said:


> hello guys new to this forum... i found a 1967 GTO hardtop for a father son project (im the son) but i have no idea of what i might be getting myself into. i was told by a restoration shop that the car was not worth restoring... although he is a restoration shop he specialized in corvette mostly, so i figured id get a 2nd opinion from a broader spectrum of people on the topic. the car is located in the swampy south, so the rust is epic. floors are completely rusted through trunk is rusted through quarters are rusted through. the resto shop said the only thing valuable on the car was the vin tag and trim tag..... but for $1800 i figured it was worth it...... i have about 10000 to invest in a car... im in so Cal........ so worth buying or spend my money else where? any opinions would be greatly appreciated!





inglewood-bandit said:


> hello guys new to this forum... i found a 1967 GTO hardtop for a father son project (im the son) but i have no idea of what i might be getting myself into. i was told by a restoration shop that the car was not worth restoring... although he is a restoration shop he specialized in corvette mostly, so i figured id get a 2nd opinion from a broader spectrum of people on the topic. the car is located in the swampy south, so the rust is epic. floors are completely rusted through trunk is rusted through quarters are rusted through. the resto shop said the only thing valuable on the car was the vin tag and trim tag..... but for $1800 i figured it was worth it...... i have about 10000 to invest in a car... im in so Cal........ so worth buying or spend my money else where? any opinions would be greatly appIF YOU CAN DO THE LABOR ALL THE BODY WORK AND PAINT AND ALL THE MECHANICAL ITS A PEICE OF CAKE


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## idreamofjeannie (Feb 24, 2017)

harlan41 said:


> RUN, don't walk


NOT REALLY IF THE GUY BOUGHT THAT CAR FOR 1800 HE GOT A GREAT DEAL THAT CAR IS FIXABLE IN FACT ANYTHING IS FIXABLE IF YOUR TALENTED AND HAVE THE DRIVE TO DO IT


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

No offense to others but...I think a 67 will pull more money than any other year...apart from the judge of course, And a 4 speed at that. Don't buy anything w/o a title or the title in someone else's name besides the seller. If you spend $40/50,000 I am sure you can get your money back if its done tastefully and meticulously. I have had several good offers, just not ready to sell.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Um. Great solid advice about the title. I almost got burned on a 94 Trans Am recently with a very shady seller. But, this post was from 10 years ago...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Couple things:
1) He's a Corvette guy so his opinion about Pontiac is going to be questionable regardless of the condition.
2) He suggested buying the car just to get the VIN and trim tags, I'm assuming in order to "make another car into a GTO". That's both dishonest and highly illegal. Avoid him like the plague.

However, just from the photos, he's probably right about it being too far gone to save. Anything is possible but to get it done you'd probably spend at least 4 or 5 _times_ getting it done than the car will ever be worth.
However, for $1000 it might be an OK deal for a parts car, if you have a place to store it. It's hard to tell from the photos but you MIGHT be able to salvage enough of it to use on another car to make that worthwhile, if there's any part of the engine that's still usable.

Bear


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Knowing that this thread was started in 2012 and prices have gone up way too much since then....the OP's budget would be nowhere near enough in 2012 to rudely complete a decent starter car let alone that one. In 2022, the cost would be insane. The only thing left of the original would be the VIN plate and the title...maybe parts of the the frame. It was in bad shape and a parts car at best.


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