# Bought GTO Today- minor issues with it



## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

So I got one today (the one from the other thread). Checked out nice minus some hail damage, needing tires and an inspection and the shifter. Oh, it had slotted/drilled rotors which kinda sucks too, and a burnt out headlight.

The idiot that installed the short throw shifter shouldn't be allowed to change the batteries in his remote control. 

The shift knob now spins around in circles freely :confused
Are these normal screw on (like f-bodies) or are they press fit? 

He also didn't install the gasket correctly so there is an oil drip- more like a seepage from the top. Is that dropping the transmission or can I access it from the top? 

Overall, not bad for a 37,000 mile car. I got it for $14,000.:cheers


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

The shift knobs are press fit.


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

HP11 said:


> The shift knobs are press fit.


So new knob I guess.


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## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

Or use silicon.


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

the press fit ones I've seen are usually not circular, so i'm guessing something broke.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

That's what happens to them when someone tries to remove them by twisting/turning instead of pulling straight up. The service manual says


> The gearshift lever knob and gearshift lever are premanently bonded together during manufacture and cannot be serviced seperately


 but they can be pulled straight up and the put back on with a dab of epoxy. If you twist them off they won't stay put even with epoxy.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I suppose it depends on which shifter was installed as to how it mounts.
And why do drilled and slotted brakes rotors suck?


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

Rukee said:


> I suppose it depends on which shifter was installed as to how it mounts.
> And why do drilled and slotted brakes rotors suck?


Disadvantages: Less thermal mass, less braking surface, faster to warp, higher cost, eats brake pads.

Advantages: Looks kinda cool. Kinda.



HP11 said:


> That's what happens to them when someone tries to remove them by twisting/turning instead of pulling straight up. The service manual says but they can be pulled straight up and the put back on with a dab of epoxy. If you twist them off they won't stay put even with epoxy.


Rats. Well, we'll see how it goes.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Godspeed said:


> Disadvantages: Less thermal mass, less braking surface, faster to warp, higher cost, eats brake pads.
> 
> Advantages: Looks kinda cool. Kinda.
> 
> ...


Should warp less. Shouldn't heat up like conventional OE rotors. I'm replacing all 4 on my wifes Charger with drilled and slotted. The OEs suck. Including the originals, this will be the 3rd set of brakes in 59k miles. At least the drilled and slotted ones I'm looking at have a 3 year warranty. The OEs were 1 yr. Going to match up the new rotors with ceramic pads which from my understanding should last quite awhile.....


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> Should warp less. Shouldn't heat up like conventional OE rotors. I'm replacing all 4 on my wifes Charger with drilled and slotted. The OEs suck. Including the originals, this will be the 3rd set of brakes in 59k miles. At least the drilled and slotted ones I'm looking at have a 3 year warranty. The OEs were 1 yr. Going to match up the new rotors with ceramic pads which from my understanding should last quite awhile.....


They do almost nothing for cooling. They're for out-gassing, which won't happen with a modern pad more than $20. If anything, they might even result in more heat since the energy density increases due to it being spread out over less mass.The holes and slots create risers and thermal stress. I know a good bit about this stuff.

Go to a race track (road course, not drag strip). None of the racecars (running iron rotors) will have drilled brakes for a reason. Some opt for slotted, which is really a fading trend, simply because they have out-gassing (which, on a racetrack... with hard braking zones...on a hot day... with a good driver... on OEM pads....maybe)

There is a reason NASCAR doesn't drill their rotors:










This is what a typical (good) road race setup will look like (until you move up to exotic brakes like carbon-carbon)










If you're warping rotors every 15-20k miles, it's probably driving habits and environment. Rain, snow, puddles, pull-in car washes, washing the car right after a drive, etc, are all going to drop rotor life.

Whatever the reason, just go to Autozone and get a set with a two year warranty. They're $50 each. Problem solved. That's what I always do. Makes road racing much cheaper. Same thing with their pads (although, racing pads are much much much better- I just don't have the coin for that).

In fact, if anyone is local to Dallas and has a set of new factory rotors, I'll gladly trade you.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

I read where the out gassing actually helps with cooler brakes. Also, with the out gassing, the pads have better contact with the rotor resulting in less brake fade. Her current rear discs aren't vented like the fronts. The drilled and slotted are vented both on the fronts and the rears. Given they have a 3 year warranty they should out perform the OEs by quite abit. I'm still going to spend the money and give them a try. It will be a good test to see if I want to add them to my goat .... Her car is a grocery getter with basically no city driving. As far as the environment you mentioned, we have all of the above....


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> I read where the out gassing actually helps with cooler brakes. Also, with the out gassing, the pads have better contact with the rotor resulting in less brake fade. Her current rear discs aren't vented like the fronts. The drilled and slotted are vented both on the fronts and the rears. Given they have a 3 year warranty they should out perform the OEs by quite abit. I'm still going to spend the money and give them a try. It will be a good test to see if I want to add them to my goat .... Her car is a grocery getter with basically no city driving. As far as the environment you mentioned, we have all of the above....


The out gassing helps with cooling? What? The only reason it "helps" with cooling is because your brake pad isn't touching the rotor anymore :lol: The outgassing causes _less_ contact with the rotor. 

If your brake pads are out gassing on the street, you seriously need to stop buying $9.99 brake pads _and_ stop driving like a maniac. Your brake pads are not out gassing. I promise you this. It's just not happening on the street.

Rear brakes only do about 30% of the braking, if that. You're not over-heating your rear brakes. Don't worry about making that finned or slotted or cross drilled.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

The drilled/slotted rotors help the gasses escape. It's the rear brakes that are mainly having an issue. And the car is babied....


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> The drilled/slotted rotors help the gasses escape. It's the rear brakes that are mainly having an issue. And the car is babied....


That's what they're there for, but your pads, especially your rear pads, are most definitely not gassing, and especially if it's babied. 

It's probably pad choice or water/snow contacting hot rotors. Do you wash the car frequently? Going to through a drive-through drive through will spray water on the rotors while they're hot. You're in a snowy state, so that can be it too- snow, slush, etc spraying on them. 

Drilling holes in them is not going to help the cool better. The key is _uniform_ slow cooling, which the holes certainly won't help.

Edit: another issue may be the proportioning valve (I don't know what car this is) or something wrong with the front brakes. If the front brakes aren't getting as much pressure as they should (or rear getting too much) or for some reason not doing their share of work, it forces the rear to pick up the slack, which can't handle it. If the car is babied, you wouldn't notice the front brakes not working well because you're not using all your braking power to begin with. 

You're treating the symptom (incorrectly), not the cause.


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## Vbp6us (May 6, 2008)

Godspeed said:


> That's what they're there for, but your pads, especially your rear pads, are most definitely not gassing, and especially if it's babied.
> 
> It's probably pad choice or water/snow contacting hot rotors. Do you wash the car frequently? Going to through a drive-through drive through will spray water on the rotors while they're hot. You're in a snowy state, so that can be it too- snow, slush, etc spraying on them.
> 
> ...


You must be in the rotor design/manufacturing/selling business.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Just sound to me like he knows brakes and isn't swayed by anecdotal info you seem to encounter virtually everywhere......


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

Vbp6us said:


> You must be in the rotor design/manufacturing/selling business.


Kind of. I used to be an engineer. I interned at a company that designed rotors for a year, then worked in some motorsports.

That and I just spend a good amount of time at the racetrack.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Godspeed said:


> Edit: another issue may be the proportioning valve (I don't know what car this is) or something wrong with the front brakes. If the front brakes aren't getting as much pressure as they should (or rear getting too much) or for some reason not doing their share of work, it forces the rear to pick up the slack, which can't handle it. If the car is babied, you wouldn't notice the front brakes not working well because you're not using all your braking power to begin with.


Thought about that too. It also has Brake Assist, Electronic Stability Program, 4 wheel anti lock and All Speed Traction Control. Could be a glitch in one those systems. I figure if I can get 3 times the life out of drilled and slotted rotors(just going by the difference in warranties compared to OE equipment that I always use) that's good enough for me. By that time it will be traded for something else. If not, they should be still under warranty. FWIW, it's a Charger. Ya, ya, I know, there's my first problem, for all the Charger haters..........


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## BlackJackByte (Aug 31, 2009)

Godspeed said:


> Kind of. I used to be an engineer. I interned at a company that designed rotors for a year, then worked in some motorsports.
> 
> That and I just spend a good amount of time at the racetrack.


I see you used to be an engineer, can I ask why you're not anymore or what you do now?


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

68greengoat said:


> Thought about that too. It also has Brake Assist, Electronic Stability Program, 4 wheel anti lock and All Speed Traction Control. Could be a glitch in one those systems. I figure if I can get 3 times the life out of drilled and slotted rotors(just going by the difference in warranties compared to OE equipment that I always use) that's good enough for me. By that time it will be traded for something else. If not, they should be still under warranty. FWIW, it's a Charger. Ya, ya, I know, there's my first problem, for all the Charger haters..........


Just get autozone rear rotors. They have a two year warranty and solid ones will last longer.



BlackJackByte said:


> I see you used to be an engineer, can I ask why you're not anymore or what you do now?


I went to law school; I'm an attorney now.


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## tim_haha2000 (Sep 27, 2011)

*rotors*

i switched to drilled rotors on the front and drilled and slotted on the rear. i was wondering if it was worth it so i tested them on a back road. stock rotors and pads. 60-0 136 feet dry .60-0 wet 139ft.lots of fade. switched rotors and pads 60-0 dry 124 60-0 wet 128.5. iam no engineer or rocket scientist .but i can use a 200 ft tape and mark lines on the road . just with my findings its worth the switch .that was before the calipers swap to so iam sure its even better now. thats a car length. that could be the diffrence between someones rear end and a real good heart thumper.its funny that most high performance cars come with this set up.


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

tim_haha2000 said:


> i switched to drilled rotors on the front and drilled and slotted on the rear. i was wondering if it was worth it so i tested them on a back road. stock rotors and pads. 60-0 136 feet dry .60-0 wet 139ft.lots of fade. switched rotors and pads 60-0 dry 124 60-0 wet 128.5. ia*m no engineer or rocket scientist* .but i can use a 200 ft tape and mark lines on the road . just with my findings its worth the switch .that was before the calipers swap to so iam sure its even better now. thats a car length. that could be the diffrence between someones rear end and a real good heart thumper.its funny that most high performance cars come with this set up.


Lol, no offense, but clearly. Your results are anything but scientific and likely placebo effect. 

First: You switched PADS AND ROTORS. You have two variables. 

Second: You do _not_ have any fade from a single 60-0 stop :rofl: If you do, you were using $9 brake pads and air-filled brake lines and rubbing alcohol for brake fluid.

Second: How did you do this test? Looking at the speedo and the stop line at the same time? At 60mph, 0.1 second = about *nine feet* and 1mph = 3% more energy. Your dry results have a delta of 12 feet :lol

I assume it took you at least an hour or two to do the swap? A minor temperature difference will have an effect in a test like this for a multitude of factors (you're basically traction limited from 40-0; most of the stopping time)

Third: Your brakes/rotors aren't going to make any difference in the wet. ABS is going to engage immediately. You're completely traction limited, which is going be identical since the tires are the same. The fact that you have a different result for wet and dry indicates your results are not reliable (no offense, reliable as in a huge margin of error- not that you rigged it).


Fourth: Addressing your "high performance cars have them" statement- it's marketing. Go to a track day and check out the purpose built cars. They don't gave drilled rotors if they are running iron rotors like us mere mortals. Those cars also have the holes CAST in them, which makes the rotor a lot more durable. Some of them are also ceramic.

The purpose of cross drilling isn't even reduce fade. It's sole purpose is to allow gasses that are created if a pad gets super duper hot pad to escape so it doesn't create a buffer between the pad and rotor. Your car would smell like crap 24/7 if it was out-gassing with one single stop. Modern brake pads just don't outgas in anything remotely resembling street conditions. You can smell it and it's not subtle.

On a track with super-hard braking zones on a hot day with a really good driver- street pads will begin to out-gas. And the solution to this is to get the correct pads- not drill holes in your rotors.

The rotor serves three purposes in this world:

1. Take in the heat: More metal = more "space" to hold heat. A big block of metal can hold more energy/heat than a small one.

2. Provide a friction surface for the brake pad. More surface area = more braking surface. 

Holes reduce both the amount of metal AND braking surface area.

The third purpose is to dissipate heat, but it wont help with this.
Fast moving air doesn't want to make right hand turns into tiny holes spinning super AFTER somehow going through the wheel. It's hard to explain in a bulletin board post- there is a reason why an engineering degree takes 4-5 years, but you learn in fluids that there won't be much air flow through them. Air just isn't flowing THROUGH your wheel. It's just not. I've been in wind tunnels- it just doesn't and manufacturers (street and race) don't want it either.


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## tim_haha2000 (Sep 27, 2011)

*what*

whatever makes you feel better bud. lol i dont care what gases are where or what does what. all i know is my brakes are night and day compared to the stock rotors. but i will say your good with words maybe thats why your a attorney. but when my car stops faster than it did before then there is really nothing you can say that changes that is there. so after you read this plz dont reply i really dont want to sit threw another lecture. thats all this post is and will ever be. you took it from a smiple question to talking everyone down because you USED to be a engineer.


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## tim_haha2000 (Sep 27, 2011)

*ps*

tc was turned off


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## tim_haha2000 (Sep 27, 2011)

Godspeed said:


> So I got one today (the one from the other thread). Checked out nice minus some hail damage, needing tires and an inspection and the shifter. Oh, it had slotted/drilled rotors which kinda sucks too, and a burnt out headlight.
> 
> The idiot that installed the short throw shifter shouldn't be allowed to change the batteries in his remote control.
> 
> ...


and yes that is bad for 37k that car should be mint mines got 55k it is mint


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

tim_haha2000 said:


> whatever makes you feel better bud. lol i dont care what gases are where or what does what. all i know is my brakes are night and day compared to the stock rotors. but i will say your good with words maybe thats why your a attorney. but when my car stops faster than it did before then there is really nothing you can say that changes that is there. so after you read this plz dont reply i really dont want to sit threw another lecture. thats all this post is and will ever be. you took it from a smiple question to talking everyone down because you USED to be a engineer.


Good with words? No, I'm "good with words" because of grammar school. Nothing in that post was anything but simplistic. I made a strong point because I know what I'm talking about. 

I'm still an engineer. My degree didn't go away. I still have an understanding for the physical principals involved with a braking system and proper testing methods. Moreover, anyone at the racetrack, where I spend a significant amount of time, could tell your cross drilled rotors are for posers. 

You changed the brake pad, caliper and rotor and you're going to attribute the change to punching holes in your rotor?

Look, maybe you stumbled upon something every race car team overlooked. Or, as I said, maybe it's because you don't have robotic reaction times and your testing method of "hitting the brakes and pulling out a tape measure" is extremely crude.

Your brakes aren't fading. You stopped in a street car from 60mph. Nothing faded. Nothing overheated. Take it from someone that has blue brake fluid and changes it every 2-3 months because he actually drives and rides on a racetrack, helped design racecars and knows what is going on. Nothing out gassed. You just hit the brake 0.15 seconds later than you did when you had the cross drilled rotors.

You certainly didn't overheat/fade your brakes stopping in the wet. There isn't enough traction to overheat your brakes. I'd be willing to bet you couldn't overheat overheat your brakes in the wet if your tried. There just isn't enough traction between the road and your tire. 

(BTW: one of the best brake upgrades is upgrading you tires. Step up your tires on the track and watch your brakes suddenly become inadequate).






tim_haha2000 said:


> tc was turned off


I wasn't really concerned about your tires spinning while you were braking 

We'll take your testing for what it's worth- coming from a guy impressed with basic grammar confusing traction control for anti-lock brakes.




tim_haha2000 said:


> and yes that is bad for 37k that car should be mint mines got 55k it is mint


Cool. 
Sell it for $14,000.
Buy another Monte Carlo and supercharge it :lol:


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## BlackJackByte (Aug 31, 2009)

Godspeed said:


> Good with words? No, I'm "good with words" because of grammar school. Nothing in that post was anything but simplistic. *I made a strong point because I know what I'm talking about.*
> 
> *I'm still an engineer. My degree didn't go away.* I still have an understanding for the physical principals involved with a braking system and proper testing methods. Moreover, anyone at the racetrack, where I spend a significant amount of time, could tell your cross drilled rotors are for posers.
> 
> ...


I think it's pretty apparent he knows what he's talking about here.

So are you a "patent attorney" now? I have a friend that was an engineer like myself and then later went on to become a patent attorney, bigger money money.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

68greengoat said:


> I read where the out gassing actually helps with cooler brakes. Also, with the out gassing, the pads have better contact with the rotor resulting in less brake fade. Her current rear discs aren't vented like the fronts. The drilled and slotted are vented both on the fronts and the rears. Given they have a 3 year warranty they should out perform the OEs by quite abit. I'm still going to spend the money and give them a try. It will be a good test to see if I want to add them to my goat .... Her car is a grocery getter with basically no city driving. As far as the environment you mentioned, we have all of the above....


Rotors Brakes Pads Kits Discs Calipers Shoes Drums Lines Wires

Their premium rotors have a lifetime warranty against warping. A buddy of mine uses them and has no complaints.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Godspeed said:


> Good with words? No, I'm "good with words" because of grammar school.


Touche!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

jpalamar said:


> Rotors Brakes Pads Kits Discs Calipers Shoes Drums Lines Wires
> 
> Their premium rotors have a lifetime warranty against warping. A buddy of mine uses them and has no complaints.


Thanks for the link. I need to replace them now. Starting to shake pretty good, especially during heavier braking.....


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## BWinc (Sep 21, 2005)

Godspeed said:


> Good with words? No, I'm "good with words" because of grammar school. Nothing in that post was anything but simplistic. I made a strong point because I know what I'm talking about.
> 
> I'm still an engineer. My degree didn't go away. I still have an understanding for the physical principals involved with a braking system and proper testing methods. Moreover, anyone at the racetrack, where I spend a significant amount of time, could tell your cross drilled rotors are for posers.
> 
> ...



Don't you bring your fancy words, superior debating skills and logic here! :lol:

Thoroughly enlightening and entertaining. Would read thread again. 

Congrats on the car, btw.


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

BlackJackByte said:


> I think it's pretty apparent he knows what he's talking about here.
> 
> So are you a "patent attorney" now? I have a friend that was an engineer like myself and then later went on to become a patent attorney, bigger money money.


No, I'm just trial attorney, although my law firm wants me to take the "patent bar."


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

Ok, Ok.....Listen, and do NOT kill me because of this, but...... In your motorcycle racing pictures, all of your race bikes have Drilled Rotors?? Is it different on bikes? Like i said, this is just a simple question, do not attack  lol


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## Godspeed (Oct 12, 2011)

6speedlover said:


> Ok, Ok.....Listen, and do NOT kill me because of this, but...... In your motorcycle racing pictures, all of your race bikes have Drilled Rotors?? Is it different on bikes? Like i said, this is just a simple question, do not attack  lol


Yes, but it's for weight. That little bit of rotating unsprung weight makes a huge difference. 

It's damn near impossible to get brake fade because of the rotors on my bike. They don't get very hot at all. OEM rotors will last racers a whole season without much of a problem until you start getting into the higher end of expert and professional classes (except Buell, but that's because they have a ****ty single rotor design).

True race-only motorcycles have cross drilled rotors. In contrast, true race-only cars do not have cross drilled rotors.


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

Its funny how this discussion started about rotors and pads, because my boss is ordering the new ZL-1 Camaro (has 2 Newer Camaro's) and all he does is bitch about the rotors not being cross-drilled. I guess i see all the answers in all the previous posts lol.


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

6speedlover said:


> Like i said, this is just a simple question, do not attack  lol


The man never 'attacked' anyone. He merely responded to the attacks.


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## Vbp6us (May 6, 2008)

Great points and as an engineer, I get what you're saying. But like you said, it's pretty much simplistic terms.


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## 6speedlover (Aug 10, 2011)

HP11 said:


> The man never 'attacked' anyone. He merely responded to the attacks.


ohh, i know  Thats why i said lol.


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## Texanfan392 (Jan 24, 2012)

So at this point, if I was looking at upgrading braking performance..

Which pad would be a good choice to get?


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


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