# 69 front bumper questions



## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm resto/modding my 69 Tempest. I've installed new front fenders, core support, GTO valance and GTO hood (all aftermarket reproductions - fit was less than desirable with the fenders). I'm not trying to pass this off as a GTO or even a clone - there won't be any GTO badges anywhere and I'm using the tempest rear marker lights. When I attempted to test fit the front bumper to line things up, everything was WAY off. I know that the GTOs had the Endura bumper and that it lined up with the fenders, but I would have expected that the Tempest's chrome bumper would have fit a little closer than it did - it stuck out about 3/4" outside of each fender and didn't come close to matching the "nose" of the hood - it was about an inch lower. Besides the obvious differences in the lower nose section of the bumpers, does anyone know if there are any size or shape differences between the two? Would simply changing to a GTO bumper solve my "fit" issues? Any help or info would be greatly appreciated...:willy:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

You're dealing with two problems: one is quality of reproduction parts, the other is that everything can be difficult to align/adjust and will make you greatly expand your vocabulary. 

You can probably fix the "stick out" problem by loosening all of the bolts on the fronts of the fenders and adjusting them both "out" so that the distance between them is wider. Of course, this is also going to make the gaps between the fenders and the edge of your hood wider too, so you'll have to choose some compromise that you can live with. If it makes the hood/fender gaps too "tapered" then you'll have to move the rear of the fenders out too, with shims on the side fender bolts where they go into the cowl. Of course this can mess up the alignment with the fronts of your doors so you'll have to compromise there too, or adjust your doors "out" too at the front... (get the idea?)

The front bumper brackets also have some "in and out" and "up and down" as well as "tilt" adjustment available at the point where the big L-shaped brackets bolt to the frame. Getting this part "right" can take as many as 3 people --- 2 to hold the bumper in position and 1 to re-tighten all the bracket bolts.
One thing that can cause the "height" problem that can drive you nuts, is if the radiator core support mounts (the rubber biscuits) have been installed incorrectly then the core support (and the hood and fenders) will be way high / way low and you won't have enough adjustment available on the brackets to get it to line up right.

There's a reason that sheet metal / body work is expensive - and this is one of them. Getting stuff like this right is both tedious and time-consuming.

Bear


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

I tried most everything that I could think of. The "horns" (for lack of a better term) of the bumper came very close to lining up with the fenders on each side, but the outside of the bumper was still too far outside of the fenders and the nose of the bumper was still too low compared to the hood. I guess maybe shimming the fenders up on the core support would allow me to raise the bumper and get it a little closer to the nose, but then the fender to door gap would be beyond horrible...:confused. Sometimes this "weekend" project is a little too frustrating...


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

I guess start at the bottom - anyone have a picture of the core support mounts so I can make sure that I put them in correctly?


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

I too am modifying a 69 (non-GTO) (Custom S) with GTO parts. What I gathered from your initial post was that you are indeed keeping the chrome bumper, it's a different ball game than an endura. You will also need to keep in mind that the chrome bumper had a rubber "gasket" that went between the front of the fenders and the chrome bumper. 

I don't know if you still have that but if not you'll want to get one. The chrome bumper was never meant to sit as close to the fenders as the endura. As many on the boards will attest, when you jack this car up by the frame it will scare you to death, the fenders and nose go WAY out of alignment and with the chrome bumper I think they meant to have a little more play in there so as to avoid metal to metal contact. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I went through that on my 69 GTO trying for days to get the endura bumper lined up because I initially had mine in wrong, and my core support was almost exactly 1/2" too high. I don't have photos, but I remember that to get it right, one of the rubber biscuits had to go between the bottom of the frame rail and the core support, the other biscuit went on the bottom of the core support between the support and the big washer on the bolt head. The top of the bolt/nut that goes inside the frame rail just gets a big washer on it. There's no rubber inside the frame rail.

Bear


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Which bumper brackets do you have? Hideaway and non-hideaway had different bumper brackets. I'm not sure if the Lemans chrome bumper shared brackets with either on of these or if they are different too?


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

I've got the original Tempest brackets for the chrome bumper. From everything that I've seen, they're the same as the non-hide-away Endura brackets. The hide-away brackets are definitely different. I think I'm going to get an Endura bumper and do whatever it takes to make it work - will probably look better anyway...


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

my 69' firebird was the same way only it had endura light bezels with gasket and chrome bumper (beak), i must have spent the better part of two weeks getting to where i was almost happy with the fit after crunching the front end....start with everything finger tight and work from the doors to the front, once you get it shimmed then tighten down.


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for their responses. I can't help but think that the issue is as Bear said - aftermarket sheet metal isn't the greatest fitting stuff.

The car has been in the family for a long time - When I was 13, I talked my Mother into buying it for the family car instead of a Vega wagon. When I turned 16, I was given it to drive - but I had to maintain it and it still had to be available for family usage. At 18, the title was signed over to me.

The front end was replaced (by me) after a truck ran a red light and twisted the fenders and hood beyond reworking (the frame was damaged too, but was straightened close enough to use). Replacement front end parts came from a donor 4 door. For the most part - re-assembly was pretty easy.

Now years later - I've decided to do it the right way - and I have problems. Donor frame from a '69 Chevelle, new floorboards, trunk floor replaced, rear quarters replaced - all of this went together with no problems. Then I get to the front end (and all of the aftermarket sheet metal) and its like putting together a jigsaw puzzle in which all of the pieces are the same size, shape, and color.

The fenders took a little "persuasion" to get them close, the hood fit fairly well, but when I went to test fit the bumper  - not really even close. 

Oh well - I guess it won't stop me now - just frustrating - wish it went a little smoother - anxious to get it back on the road, but no time to rush it now - gotta make sure its done right...

Thanks guys...:cheers


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

I am sure you spent some substantial coin on the reproduction sheet metal but have you at any point considered looking for a new donor car to get the real deal?

Just an idea.


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh - I've looked for donors - the cost would have been about the same if not more for a sonor that would have worked.

My friend that is helping me with this is as stubborn as I am (I didn't keep her for 35 years to give up this easily) - I think we've resigned ourselves to getting an Endura bumper and doing whatever it takes to get it to fit right and look good...:cool


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

The chrome front bumper will have like a 3/8" to 1/2" gap at the fenders. You will need to get the rubber filler gasket that attaches to the fender to make it look right. 
Rubber biscuits, you bounce them off of the wall and catch them in your mouth, if you don't, you go hungry.:cool


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

the endura, especially aftermarket are probably less forgiving than the chrome...


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Maybe try fibreglass endura bumper? It's about 100 lbs lighter than stock and they don't stress crack like the endura's do. Then you can work it to match your fenders and hood as needed. 

As a side note my front fenders actually have a different radius or curvature than each other from the factory. Huge PITA to make it all right. :shutme


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

I've given very serious thought to putting a Fiberglas bumper on, but everyone I talk to tells me that there are no mounting tabs on it - so I don't know how I could get it to mount to the frame brackets. I guess I could 'glass in the reinforcements from the chrome bumper - it would take a lot of work, but it's getting to the point that I might not have many alternatives.

I was bidding on an Endura bumper on E-bay today, but got out bid at the last second. All of which I find VERY strange since that particular bumper had been listed at least twice before and both of those auctions ended with no bids at all...!!!

If anyone has experience with the Fiberglas bumpers and can shed some light on making it work, it would really make my wife happy - I think I'm driving her crazy...


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

I can maybe help you find an endura I have a couple contacts here in the kc area that last I checked did have one or two. (they would need to be straightened a bit but there are are write ups on how to do that) 

Let me know if I can help.


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

Right now I'm keeping all posibilities open - any help would be appreciated.

I really can't throw big bucks at a complete bumper set-up, so one that needs a little work is definately an option - Thanks...

You can Private Message any info you get to me if you would like...


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

One thing to keep in mind, if you go endura you will need GTO grilles and headlight bezels.

I will beat the bushes this weekend and PM you.


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## 69Goatee (Aug 14, 2009)

TK69, where are located? I'm in Wichita and I have a few OEM fenders that all need work. I am looking to get rid of a few. I had a fiberglass bumper, but I sold it a while ago. It was warped where they put some braces in it, they shrunk. It was good for a drag car, would've taken alot of work to get right.


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## TK69tempest (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm in Springfield, Mo. I appreciate the offer of the fenders, but I've already gotten the aftermarket ones worked in and fitted. At this point, I just need to work on getting the bumper issue resolved. I'm trying to find a bumper in "repairable condition" that won't take major $ and tons of time to complete. Thanks...:cheers


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## MO Goat (Apr 7, 2011)

TK69tempest said:


> I really can't throw big bucks at a complete bumper set-up, so one that needs a little work is definately an option - Thanks...


I'm here in KC and will have my OEM endura bumper for sale as soon as the body shop pulls it off. It DOES need work, but if you're interested, we could talk more. At least it would be original and definitely cheaper than the redone OEM one I bought.


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