# 1970 Lemans/GTO Clone won't start.



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I recently purchased a 1970 Lemans/GTO Clone and it ran great for the first week and then recently the car won't start. There's electrical power from the battery(replaced the battery when I got it) but there doesn't seem to be any power going to the starter. I have been told to check the distributor cap and the solenoid and replace them and the starter and alternator if that doesn't seem to work. Could the engine running hot cause the starter to go bad? Sorry, I'm relatively new to classic cars and working in the engine.

Thanks-Chris


----------



## Icefan71 (Apr 7, 2011)

I had trouble getting my Lemans started when I got it almost 2 years ago. Check your battery cables. If they're really old or corroded bad, replace them. Then try a remote starter switch. That'll allow you to get battery power directly to your starter to make sure its good. If it cranks then your starter is good and the problem is somewhere else. If not then your starter is bad.


----------



## 66 Gas Tires Oil (Oct 23, 2012)

look at your neutral safety switch.

jim


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

The battery cables are in pretty good shape. What exactly is a remote starter switch? And the neutral safety switch would be on the tranny right? Would I need to replace it or what?


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

neutral safety switch is in the console/column depending which you have, if the car is not in park/neutral it disables it from starting, try jiggling your column lever/stick and see if you get juice to the starter.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I have a console with the Hurst His and Hers shifter. So try jiggling that to see if it works?


----------



## Icefan71 (Apr 7, 2011)

Remote starter switch lets you power the starter directly from the battery Actron/10 Amps remote starter trigger switch with heavy duty neoprene leads, medium current clips open to 1/2 in., rubber boots and ergonomic handle (CP7853) | Remote Starter Switch | AutoZone.com
I ended up having to replace my starter and ignition switch to get my Lemans to start. Try these other guys' advice first. "Jiggling" is free.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I think have something similar to that. I have to turn the key in the ignition and then press a button to start it.


----------



## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

chris_schenk72 said:


> I think have something similar to that. I have to turn the key in the ignition and then press a button to start it.


In that case, somebody's already been messing with the starter circuit.
I'd recommend you get some hands-on expert help to figure out what's been done and what's wrong with it now.

We can continue to offer ideas and suggestions, but unless/until we learn exactly how it is wired, we are just guessing.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

Yeah I understand that, and appreciate it. I'm just going to give all this a try and if worse comes to worse take it to a mechanic and see what's up. Thanks for the advice


----------



## mbergin (Jun 19, 2012)

I had the same issue on my 69, power going to the starter with no response when I turned the key. Turned out to be the ignition switch on the column right above the neutral safety switch. Replaced it a 20 minutes. Worth a look. 


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I pulled out the consul and there's not any wires to the gear shift and I can't find the wire for the neutral safest switch. Where should it plug in to in the consul


----------



## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

I believe your neutral safety switch is at the lower end of the steering column (like it is on the 68 and 69). It originally had a two-wire connector; both wires are purple.

You had to adjust the transmission "back-drive" linkage so the neutral safety switch would only allow the starter to engage in Park or Neutral.

There is a multi-step adjustment procedure shown in the Factory Service Manual and it is specific to the transmission/shifter combination.

The Hurst "His-n-Hers" or "Dual Gate" shifter was discontinued at the end of the 68 model year. I wonder what year/style shifter and harnesses are in your car... 

If your shifter top plate is held on with 4 screws, it is a 67 shifter. If the top plate is held to the base with two spring clips, it's a 68 unit.

Pics might help us.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

The back up lights stay on whenever I have the car in anything other than park so I'm almost positive it's the switch. It has 4 screws so I guess it's a 67. I'll get some pictures on as soon as I can. I saw two purple wires underneath the dash near the floor going to the firewall right by the pedals which is what a mechanic told me I need to try to get power to to check the starter. Do I need to replace the switch or reset it or what?


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

And I also just realized that it was changed over from a column shift to a consul shift, I think it was previously a manual tranny switched over to an auto. I'll have pics in the morning


----------



## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Hope these help.

These are the pages from the 1969 FSM that pertain to the TH400 automatic shift linkage and the chassis electrical wiring diagrams. I don't think there is much difference in these circuits or linkages for the 1970 model.

One of the purple wires on the neutral safety switch goes to the main body harness connector at the fuse block, position "AZ". From the firewall side, that is the purple wire that should be on the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid.

That wire carries 12V to the solenoid when the ignition key is turned to the "Start" position. In the "Start" position, the ignition switch feeds 12V (large red wire on pin"C" of the ignition switch connector) to the purple wire (pin A on ignition switch connector), which goes to the other side of the neutral safety switch. 

With the transmission in "Park", you should have 12V at the neutral safety switch (from the ignition switch) with the key in the "Start" position. If you don't have 12V at the purple wire coming from the ignition switch, you might have a bad ignition switch.

If you have 12V coming from the ignition switch with the key in the "Start" position, check for 12V on the output side of the neutral switch. That would be the SECOND purple wire (the one the goes to the fuse block/body harness connector). If there is not 12V on the output side of the switch when the transmission selector is in "Park", you either have a bad neutral switch OR the transmission linkage and/or neutral safety switch must be adjusted so the neutral switch is closed when the shifter is in Park or Neutral ONLY.

You can see the linkage adjustment areas in the picture. Even though your shifter has been changed, the column lock/back drive linkage should be the same.

IIRC, there is limited adjustment in the neutral switch mounting mechanism. Unless someone has been messing around with the steering column, I would not expect the switch needs to be adjusted.

Good luck.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I put a new neutral saftey switch that I got from summit and that didn't seem to be the problem. I think it could be the ignition switch but like I said before the guy I bought it from put a push button start in it so I'm not sure if he messed around with it all. It's right above the neutral saftey switch right?


----------



## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes, the ignition switch is above the neutral safety switch.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

How did you replace your ignition switch and what switch did you use?


----------



## mbergin (Jun 19, 2012)

I bought the switch from performance years. The ignition switch is on top of the column right above the neutral switch. I removed the front seat so I could get under there(too many burgers). I removed the screws securing the column and dropped it until I could reach under. Once you find the bolts it pretty to change the ignition switch but you have to ensure the linkage to the key switch is connected. All in all it took about 45 minutes. Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I think I figured it out. The push starter was installed to bypass the neutral safety switch because it was switched from a column to a consul. I think the wire for the button starter is shot, that and the ground wire from the starter may be bad. So I guess I'm going to replace those and see how that works out


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

Some one told me the ground wire on the starter could be bad and causing it to not start. Is that true, and if so, how would I go about replacing that? Sorry for the complete idiocy here, the electrical and wiring parts are kindof like another language to me


----------



## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

There is no ground wire on the starter.

The starter is grounded through its attachment to the engine block. The negative (ground) battery cable completes the ground connection to the battery. That cable MUST be in good condition and the connections must be clean and tight in order to have proper starter function. The same goes for the positive battery cable. 

In an earlier post, you said that your battery cables were good. Did you just visually check the cables and connections or did you remove and clean the connections and make sure that the ground attachment at the block/head is clean and tight? Given what you're dealing with, you should also check the ground straps that go from the passenger head to the firewall and from the passenger inner fender to the frame.

If you didn't actually remove/clean &/or replace all the battery cable and ground strap connections, you should do that now. Any corrosion at the battery cable connections or degraded cables can cause the problems you are experiencing.


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

An hour removing and cleaning all the ground straps and cables is time well spent, also the bulb sockets and where they press into the buckets on tail lights, dremel with wire wheel works well, make sure all contact is metal to metal and when you bolt back down spray a shot of rust inhibitor or touchup paint over the bolts. Spent hours chasing taillight ghosts and 90% of it was bad grounds. New thicker gauge cables never hurt especially if you have a stereo/amp or any modern electronics that might tax the system. Re-built starters from the chains are notorious for going bad out of the box, nothing sucks worse than having to do a job twice.


----------



## chris_schenk72 (Dec 3, 2012)

I replaced the battery and cleaned the cables and everything. The black wire on the starter, which is what someone told me was the ground wire, looks frayed and is barely hanging in there. Could that be the problem? That's also where the direct starter from the battery to bypass the neutral safety switch is wired to


----------



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

it's possible, as wires flex over the years the strands break and you have less surface to carry the current. All wires and connectors should be checked and replaced if faulty, it's cheap fire insurance.


----------



## scott9804 (Aug 19, 2013)

chris_schenk72 said:


> I recently purchased a 1970 Lemans/GTO Clone and it ran great for the first week and then recently the car won't start. There's electrical power from the battery(replaced the battery when I got it) but there doesn't seem to be any power going to the starter. I have been told to check the distributor cap and the solenoid and replace them and the starter and alternator if that doesn't seem to work. Could the engine running hot cause the starter to go bad? Sorry, I'm relatively new to classic cars and working in the engine.
> 
> Thanks-Chris


I tried to buy this car a few months ago, and it was having the same issues then too...not sure if you're the owner I met, or if you sold it to him, but I was afraid to make an offer with it not starting, so he was going to take it to a mechanic and get it running a day or two later, then let me know and I was going to come by again....but without a warning he just texted me and said "I just sold the car"......I guess I should have thrown out the number in my head that day, but it is what it is now.....I have two '72s now that I'm working on, and that one never crossed my mind again til I saw this post. Just to confirm that we're talking about the same car, it's silver, painted bumpers, purple Judge stripes, and those hideous aluminum wheels.......same car, right? Has to be.... not too many 70 LeMans, trying to be a clone, once column shift, converted to floor shift, push button starter added, WITH STARTING PROBLEMS, in Newnan GA!! One of my 72s has a similar issue, so I'm curious if you ever got the problem figured out? I think mine is in the neutral safety switch


----------



## mikea455 (Jun 1, 2013)

You should disconnect the battery while working on the starter wires. 

If you look at the starter solenoid, it's the can shaped cylinder on top of the starter, you will see three possible connections. The largest one is the positive battery cable. As stated earlier, the starter grounds through it's mount. There is no ground wire going to the starter. The two smaller wires are the ones you need to look at. There should be a slightly thick purple wire that connects to the terminal marked with an S. You may need to shine a light and clean the back of the solenoid to see the S. It will be stamped above the terminal. The other side will have a slightly smaller wire than the purple wire. That bypasses the resistor wire to the points to give the coil a voltage boost while starting. No need to mess with that wire.

What you want is to have voltage to purple wire when you push the starter button. One side of the button should go to that purple wire and the other to the battery. Originally, the neutral switch was in the column. The back linkage may be missing now with the added aftermarket shifter. If you grab the lower part of the steering column, you can rotate it. I would rotate it counter clockwise until it stops. Then you will need to secure it in that position. It may be close enough to take the keys out, but enough to hit the neutral switch. 

Assuming that the neutral switch has been bypassed with the push button, the steering column position will not matter as far as starting the car. If the push button is wired to active some sort or relay, you may need to trace the wires from the push button switch to see where they go. If all is connected properly, then I'd take a test light and see if power goes to the purple wired terminal at the starter solenoid. If the light turns on when you push the stater button and the starter does nothing, then you most likely have a bad starter solenoid.


----------

