# Car would't start after a long drive



## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

So I took my GTO for it's longest drive since my engine rebuild about 1500 miles or so ago. It was only 60 miles but when I came out to restart it again it just turned over and sputtered. It acted just like an ignition problem I had in the past where I had to replace the distributor to get it working. The car ran cool the whole trip and never got off the 180 degree mark.

I'm using an MSD ready-to-run dist. with an Accel coil. It was getting plenty of fuel and air I confirmed this. After over an hour of trying it every 5 minutes or so it finally started up.

I'm thinking the coil got too hot and would't give me what I needed until it cooled. What are your thoughts on this because I'm sure I won't be able to reproduce the issue with the car back home and cooled off.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Sputtered... flooded?


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

No it was intermittent spark. It never really flooded I don't think.


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Was it cranking slowly or did it crank at normal starter speed?


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

It cranked at normal speed the whole time. Not a starter issue at all. It has an aftermarket mini starter made by CVS.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm stuck on the description of sputtering. You make is sound like it kind of wanted to start, but didn't. Next time it happens, push and hold the pedal to the floor and crank it over. If that works, it was probably flooded. Matt


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

At the time, I also thought it might have been flooded. I put the peddle all the way down to clear it a few times. It would crank a few seconds then start and rev high then die within a second. The more the car cooled off the more the engine would act like it wanted to start. It started after an hour or so but I was fiddling with the gas the whole time. Wouldn't this have worsened the flooding situation if that was the no-start cause?


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## jmt455 (Mar 26, 2012)

Based on that description, I think you're right; it sounds like a coil or ignition module failing when hot.


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

sometimes your choke acts just like that on a hard start up after you leave it awhile. Here is why. You drive 60 miles and all is good everthing is hot. Then you go into cracker Barrel for the country boy breakfast, you are back in 45 minutes. 

Guess what your engine is still hot, hot enough to atomize fuel. but your choke sitting up there in slightly cooler air cools down and closes.

Now your non computerized engine is on the horns of a dilema, your engine is hot but your choke thinks it cold. So it does what chokes do, it closes and richens the mixture. the more you crank with the closed choke the more the rich mixture goes in.

Unloading it with the pedal down helps some, but if a lot of liquid gas is in the intake it takes time to dissipate.

time fixed it as the gas dissipated and the engine cooled some more in the intervening hour; not being run, then maybe the choke and the engine got together again; breaking up is hard to do, and started right up.

This thing happens when the outside temperatures are mid range. As on a real hot summer day the choke will stay open even during dinner and vice versa on a cold day it will close faster and the engine will cool faster.

How do you test it? take a drive and before you start after the layover, remove the air cleaner and look at the choke is it closed and engine warm to the touch? not to cold outside?

Or on such layover before you start push the pedal all the way down once and up, just to "unload" or open the choke. But do it first before it floods.

Of course this is but one possibility and I offer it since it seems the GTO is in great shape and ran great and this sounds temperature related, I agree with the sputtering analysis that it sounds flooded. Spot on....

Now if don't have a choke or you live in Alaska please disregard this message:nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity:


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

If it _is _an ignition problem, you can cure it by throwing the MSD stuff in the trash and installing the points distributor back in place. No worries then. Pickup coils in electronic units like to go bad when hot,and tend to work when they cool down. The antique contact points systems never have this problem.


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

Lemans guy that sounds about like what happened to me but unfortunately I'm not running a choke. The set up has worked fine for me in the mild climate of Western Texas so far.

And here's an update: I went out to start the car this morning and it fired and immediatly died. Tried it 3 times and stopped. Ignition module, coil, pickup coil? I'm thinking one of those.


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok I installed a known working distributor and coil and the problem persists. What do I chase next?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Compression check. As a baseline. If you can get a compression tester, and make sure one cylinder is not causing that. it can. I have had it happen. One cylinder leaks into coolant and causes a stall.

Also, timing what is or was timing on the MSD Dist and now. If timing is off car can be hard to start, a base timing of 8 to 12 BTDC, and a dist vac can that works.

Large Vacumn leaks can make a car hard to start as well and so can improperly gapped plugs? Are they too wide? Spark would have a hard time jumping. Sometimes on those MSD's they call for wider gaps....

Weak fuel pumps, or blocked fuel filters can cause hard starts. Also is your Battery strong grounds tight? You want stong ignition.

I do agree with GTOHguy that fancy dizzy's don't really matter. Read about one test on web, might have been Lars not sure, where they swapped any old dizzy on a dyno and no real change. That said real racers with high RPM's may see points miss or float out and so may need those special ignition. but street cars, not really and the coils and modules do go out from heat, that is why heat sink grease is under the electronic ignition module.

You have spark, and you have fuel, sometimes. but when you heat up or run awhile something happens. The right way check compression first. Then fuel pressure. Since you changed coil and Dizzy already.

What is the base timing?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Whitt PS what was the temperature this morning in west Texas.....When it died or was it in the garage?


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## Lemans guy (Oct 14, 2014)

Whitt; since you went out and tried it in the morning and it would only barely fire, you have eliminated the "Hot" issue for the moment. And you have changed coil and dizzy to known good ones.

When it does this here is two easy things to check. IS there actually a strong spark when it acts up? You could for example have a bad wire from coil to dizzy and so spark is weak. Pays to check, a spark tester is easiest was, or you can hold a plug wire a half inch from ground and have a helper crank. USE gloves or a non conducting plier, don't shock yourself. 

I think you probably have spark. The next thing is the mixture, you may be having a lean condition at start because you have no choke. Depending on engine temp and outside temp. if it's cool that mixture at startup needs to be richer and as you know the choke does that, so if you can simulate a choke you can test it out.

A small ice of flat metal rubber something to put over the carb, remove air cleaner and leave about 1/4 inch gap to simulate the Vacumn choke pull off.
You can tap the gas pedal twice to get a squirt of fuel, wait one minute and with the can/rubber affixed try to start it. 

if it fires right up, you might need a choke. those are two easy quick tests.

But if that doesn't solve it a strategy based diagnosis is as we talked befor, compression, spark, fuel pressure etc.

When I pulled the old gas tank on my 66 Lemans the in tank filter sock did not even exist, it was totally disintegrated! So you have to search it out...

You will get it.....in cool weather, anything below 70 you could get choke problems.......let us know what you find out and good luck!


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

The temp here has been pretty mild the past few days. It may have been 60 or so when I tried starting it. I managed to get it started and it looks like it takes 3-4 tries to get it to keep running. I've had this carb on before in the winter and I remember driving the car when it was 35 degrees outside and it fired right up. Of course I had to sit and warm it up for a minute with no choke but it fired up on the first crank.

Is it possible I got some bad gas? I've moved to a rural area and I filled up in a small town that might not sell much high octane fuel and it could have been old or contaminated. I also can only get 91 octane out here compared to the 93 I was putting in it before.

I went ahead and changed the spark plugs since they were pretty black with unburned fuel. This carb is set up pretty fat and that might be part of my issue.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

You need to determine if it's fuel or ignition. Sounds like when it runs, it runs ok. So it's not timing. Also sounds like you do have spark. So probably not ignition. I would look down the carb and see if it's dumping fuel when it stalls out. If it is, you have a problem. If not, you can spray a little carb cleaner down the carb when it starts to cough and die, and see if it picks up. If it picks up, you have a carb issue....too lean. PLEASE keep a fire extinguisher handy when doing this....cars with running issues can pop and backfire thru the carb and start fires.


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

Good advise I'll give it a try. Should I be putting any kind of gas treatment in the tank?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

No. Not at this point. Find the problem first. If it turns out to be bad fuel or water in the fuel, better to drain the tank and start fresh.


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## WhittP (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok I tried the fuel tests and nothing came up. I finally figured out it was a carb to aluminum carb spacer gasket leaking a little. I've experienced a large vacuum leak before but never a small one. Guess I can put another learning experience in the books. The GTO is running better than ever now thanks for helping me chase this down.


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