# 1969 Wing Window?



## Todd J Sullivan (Jul 25, 2016)

Just picked this up. Custom S with WING WINDOWS. From what I can find, it appears that the wing window was only on a Custom S Sport Coupe with the 350? Can anyone confirm? 
I'm thinking about GTO clone or back to Custom S, except keep the hood and undura front bumper. I can't stand the chrome Custom S front end (I do have the original bumper and hood).
Thanks!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Todd J Sullivan said:


> Just picked this up. Custom S with WING WINDOWS. From what I can find, it appears that the wing window was only on a Custom S Sport Coupe with the 350? Can anyone confirm?
> I'm thinking about GTO clone or back to Custom S, except keep the hood and undura front bumper. I can't stand the chrome Custom S front end (I do have the original bumper and hood).
> Thanks!


I suggest you re-read this topic which you (I assume it is you) posted in. http://www.gtoforum.com/f12/1969-custom-s-registry-37308/ :thumbsup:

My OPINION. You may not like nor want the Custom S chrome bumper or hood, but how many of these Custom S cars have you seen in a car show? How many GTO's do you see and how many are clones that you don't even know about? Me, I would not hesitate to keep it as it is in that it is unique and would probably draw more attention IF done up correctly. I'd go 400CI w/stroker 461 kit, auto or manual trans, aftermarket Ram Air exhaust manifolds w/2 1/2" duals. Hood tach, maybe the '69 GTO spoiler, '69 Judge body stripe, black out the window side chrome/stainless, Pontiac mags without trim rings OR the plain steel 8" wheels painted black with the small Pontiac "dog dish" hubcaps. Lower the car about 2", add front & rear sway bars.

Then see if you don't turn a lot of heads. Now once you get it done, sell it and buy a real GTO like you want and you won't have to look at the chrome bumper. :yesnod:


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## Todd J Sullivan (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks for your comments. I've been confused by what I thought I was buying and what I have. A hacked up GTO clone with a tired chevy 454 is easy to decide on. Suddenly, a Custom S with vent windows makes it a little more interesting. 
I ordered the Custom S emblems today. I'll keep it as a Custom S with endura nose and hood with tach and stock interior. I think it will be much more interesting then explaining a GTO clone with vent windows (which I love). And, I have everything except original 350 motor to put back as afull Custom S. 
Tonight, change out the dif (locked up 400bfeet from the house) for a posi and start looking for a 400 or 455 on Craigslist.
Question: what are your thoughts between dropping a 400 or 455 in? 
I had a 69 bird with a 400 years ago, loved it.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

No 69's came with vent windows except the wagons. You have 1968 doors on your 1969 Custom S. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=196...vKo7rOAhUP6mMKHWNuDYUQsAQIHQ&biw=1280&bih=621


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Todd's Custom S is a 2 door *Coupe* not a 2 door hardtop. Many of us Couoe owners refer to the '68-72 Coupes as two door Posts. The Post cars have a frame around the door structure, along with a vent window. They also don't have the astro ventilation vent in the door jamb. 

On Todd's Custom S Coupe, since the Custom S was a higher trim level car, the door frame has the bright trim around the door and up the B pillar sweeping back above the quarter glass. If Todd's '69 had been a base Tempest (233 Series) Coupe, the door frame and pillar area would be body color, unless the bright trim was clicked off as an option.

With this particular Custom S being body color silver, the color of the GTO grilles should blend in with the silver paint on the endura along with the silver of the body. With just about any other body color, the GTO nose would really look out of place.


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## Todd J Sullivan (Jul 25, 2016)

That's what I'm trying to figure out. WIKIPEDIA, the font of all information...... states that the Sport Coupe in 1969 is differentiated by the vent window. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Custom_S
Interior door panels are same color as the door frames and remainder of cars. Those doors sure look original, but, I've been fooled before.
If it's a Sports Coupe with the 350, very few were made. The vent window is actually the reason I stopped with my plans for building a restomod GTO. If it's a Sports Coupe Custom S, then it's somewhat rare (although not valuable) to destroy as another clone GTO. 
One post on 1969 pontiac custom s - General Discussion - Antique Automobile Club of America - Discussion Forums states that there were only 7,912 Custom S Sport Coupes made.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I've only ever seen a couple Custom S models, they are a very nice car in their own right. My .04 (inflation)... I'd keep it stock, as others have said you don't see many of these and no one would clone something else to a Custom S model. GTOs at a show I went to last weekend (Norwalk, Ohio) were EVERYWHERE with a lot of them being clones.


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## Todd J Sullivan (Jul 25, 2016)

Pinion head said:


> Todd's Custom S is a 2 door *Coupe* not a 2 door hardtop. Many of us Couoe owners refer to the '68-72 Coupes as two door Posts. The Post cars have a frame around the door structure, along with a vent window. They also don't have the astro ventilation vent in the door jamb.
> 
> On Todd's Custom S Coupe, since the Custom S was a higher trim level car, the door frame has the bright trim around the door and up the B pillar sweeping back above the quarter glass. If Todd's '69 had been a base Tempest (233 Series) Coupe, the door frame and pillar area would be body color, unless the bright trim was clicked off as an option.
> 
> With this particular Custom S being body color silver, the color of the GTO grilles should blend in with the silver paint on the endura along with the silver of the body. With just about any other body color, the GTO nose would really look out of place.


So, would my Custom S be a Sport Coupe because of the vent windows? And (sorry about my confusion) is it a Tempest Custom S Sport Coupe? Or, is the Sport Coupe a completely separate model made only in 1969, but based off the Tempest?

I'm hoping to get it on the road this weekend. Besides the terrible primer/camo, I would really to be able to state what it actually is/lol.


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Todd J Sullivan said:


> So, would my Custom S be a Sport Coupe because of the vent windows? And (sorry about my confusion) is it a Tempest Custom S Sport Coupe? Or, is the Sport Coupe a completely separate model made only in 1969, but based off the Tempest?
> 
> I'm hoping to get it on the road this weekend. Besides the terrible primer/camo, I would really to be able to state what it actually is/lol.


All '64-72 GM A body Sports Coupe /aka/ 2door Coupe /aka/ 2door Post cars have a door with a steel frame around the front windows (door window, vent window). 

Window regulators are 2 door Post only, in your case '68-72 2 door Post. Believe the vent window regulator is '68-72 2door Post only. years ago, I replaced the vent window regulator in the drivers door of my '71 HO T-37 with one out of a '69 Cutlass S Sports Coupe. 

Other attributes of the '69-72 GM A body Post cars:
- in barebones performance trim, the 2door Posts were the lightest of all same division A body offerings. Body rigidity was also the best in the 2 door Post cars. 
-Ordered right with the highest performance factory option engines, there are a few year niches of GM 2door Post cars that were the quickest Abodys one could buy from that GM division.
-'69-72 Pontiac 2door Post cars when ordered without factory AC did not have upper vent areas in the outer ends of the molded dash assembly's. For non AC Post cars, only one vent pull knob was used on the kick panel, the same non AC kickpanel as was used in non AC '68 2 door hardtops and non AC '68-72 4door Sedans. As a result of no upper level ventilation, there is no ventilation vent in the door jamb.
-Pontiac Abody Coupes from '68-72 have the widest of 3 same year 2door A body rear seat frames, as built from the factory, there were no large molded plastic armrest base panels under the 1/4 window cranks, Instead each side trim panel extends to the floor and a small bolt on armrest was usually, but not always used.


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## Todd J Sullivan (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks so much for your information!!! Someone stuffed a Chevy 454 in it. I'll be pulling it soon. The original badging is for a 350. Do you have an opinion/recommendation as to whether I should replace with 350, 400 or a 455. I understand the 400 is excellent with the 455 mod? I'm just starting to research more. Thanks again.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Todd J Sullivan said:


> Thanks so much for your information!!! Someone stuffed a Chevy 454 in it. I'll be pulling it soon. The original badging is for a 350. Do you have an opinion/recommendation as to whether I should replace with 350, 400 or a 455. I understand the 400 is excellent with the 455 mod? I'm just starting to research more. Thanks again.



OK class, today's lesson is......class, class, claaaaaaas, shut up!. Thank you. (Sister Mary Elephant - Cheech & Chong record album. Remember? 



 Anyway, here is a line drawing from one of my collision books which shows you the difference between a "*Coupe*" and a "*Hard Top*" body style. The Coupe is sometimes referred to as a "Sports Coupe" and many of us old guys simply know them as a 2-door sedan. So if it has "Coupe" in it, it has the window pillars. I too had always thought that 1968 was the last year of the vent windows, and why I bought my '68 Lemans over the '69 version. However, the vent windows were continued on the Coupe body OR someone could have made a swap.

In 1969, there was the Tempest (Body Series 233) which was the base model and came with the 175 HP Overhead Cam 6-cylinder. Other engines were available as options. The *Sprint* option was also available with its 230 HP OHC six. It was not as promoted as the '68 models were, but it was available. Enclosed is a '68 with the Sprint stripe.

Moving up the ladder was the *Custom S* (Body Series 235). _There was no Tempest Custom option in 1969_ as this was renamed the Custom S - although the body series is called the Tempest Custom. Again, base engine was the OHC 6-cyl. and other engines were options. My source book says that out of 84,590 Tempest Custom S cars of all types, 7,912 Coupes were made. The Custom S name was not used in 1970 and the models in the Tempest line-up were Tempest, Tempest T-37, Tempest GT-37, Tempest Lemans (which was based on the mid-priced Tempest, formally the Custom S (Series 235), with added extras & Lemans Sport (Body Series 237). 

Next up is the Tempest Lemans (Body Series 237 - the Lemans Sport in 1970). It incorporated all the Custom S equipment with added on extras to create the Lemans line. Again, base engine was the OHC 6-cyl with other engines available as options.

As far as the engine, which has been covered here many, many, times, the best bang for your buck is the 400CI block (1974 and earlier) and a complete rotating 461CI assembly. Heads are your choice, iron or aluminum and that gets into a whole nuther discussion.


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## Todd J Sullivan (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks PontiacJim for your time and help in clarifying what I have. I did purchase a machined 1968/9 400 block today for $200 from a guy who's ex left him and took his car. Time to read up on the 461 builds.
I'm sure it won't be the end of simple questions from me about Custom S Sport Coupes, but here's two quick ones that you may know the answer to:
1.Did the sport coupes come with vinyl tops or how can I find that out?
2.The interior door panels have the Custom S logo and are of a design I can't find. Do you know of any source that might carry those door panels, or is it a custom creation to match the existing panels. 
Except for the front and hood, I'm going to keep it original. I'll refinish the original nose, rechrome and refinish the original hood. 
But, I'll run the endura and twin scoop hood with tack. Love it. 
Thanks again for your help.
Todd


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Todd J Sullivan said:


> Thanks PontiacJim for your time and help in clarifying what I have. I did purchase a machined 1968/9 400 block today for $200 from a guy who's ex left him and took his car. Time to read up on the 461 builds.
> I'm sure it won't be the end of simple questions from me about Custom S Sport Coupes, but here's two quick ones that you may know the answer to:
> 1.Did the sport coupes come with vinyl tops or how can I find that out?
> 2.The interior door panels have the Custom S logo and are of a design I can't find. Do you know of any source that might carry those door panels, or is it a custom creation to match the existing panels.
> ...



My guess would be yes on the vinyl top. Vinyl tops on most cars were an option - just cost more money to the buyer.

I assume the Custom S logo you are talking about is a metal emblem? I don't see any of these reproduced. The door panels are available from Ames. Download their free catalog off the internet and you will see them. :thumbsup:


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