# Sticky  Pontiac Oil Pan - Making It Deeper



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Not for the faint of heart! LOL I wanted to extend my factory oil pan, much like was done before extended/extra volume Pontiac oil pans were as available as they are today. I could have purchased one myself, but I like to fabricated and thought I would give it a try. Never again. LOL Was a lot of work and took several weekends to do. I'll buy aftermarket next time.

I began by leveling the block so I could position my oil pump screen and bottom of the pan I cut off level and even with the block.

Pic #1-2 1973 factory oil pan with the oil baffle. The first step was to cut off the bottom of the sump.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Not for the faint of heart! LOL I wanted to extend my factory oil pan, much like was done before extended/extra volume Pontiac oil pans were as available as they are today. I could have purchased one myself, but I like to fabricated and thought I would give it a try. Never again. LOL Was a lot of work and took several weekends to do. I'll buy aftermarket next time.
> 
> I began by leveling the block so I could position my oil pump screen and bottom of the pan I cut off level and even with the block.
> 
> ...


Pic #3-4 The oil pan seemed to be 18 gauge steel, so I needed to find 18 ga. steel to use in extending the pan. My local stores did not have 18 ga. so I saw this fender ($32.00) used for a tag along trailer at my local Tractor Supply Co. store and it measured 18 ga.. I cut/ used the center section of the fender in making my pan pieces. I used my high-speed die grinder/cut-off wheel to slice the pan and the fender.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic #3-4 The oil pan seemed to be 18 gauge steel, so I needed to find 18 ga. steel to use in extending the pan. My local stores did not have 18 ga. so I saw this fender ($32.00) used for a tag along trailer at my local Tractor Supply Co. store and it measured 18 ga.. I cut/ used the center section of the fender in making my pan pieces. I used my high-speed die grinder/cut-off wheel to slice the pan and the fender.
> 
> View attachment 137587
> View attachment 137588


Pic #5 The oil pump is the Butler blueprinted Pro 60PSI pump for use with the 3/4" dia. pickup tube. The pickup tube/screen is the Moroso #24480 with the 3/4" dia. tube. When mounted to the oil pump, it sits approx. 2 3/4" below the bottom of the oil pump - keeping in mind that the Butler pump uses a thicker bottom plate.

I initially bolted the oil pump to the block and then inserted the pickup tube/screen snug enough that I could still move it. The pick-up base is not level from side-to-side as it had a slight angle. Placed my level across the screen and adjusted it to get the pick-up level from front-to-back with the oil pan rail. I then marked the pickup tube and oil pump for alignment with a Sharpie, removed the pump, and used an open end 3/4" wrench on the collar of the pickup tube and hammered the tube into the pump making sure the alignment remained straight. Got it secure, but did not want to hammer on the tube too much, so brought it to my machine shop to finish securing with their tool used to do the job and tack welded.

Pic #6-7 Reattached oil pump/oil pickup assembly to the block. The distance from th bottom of the pan sump to the bottom of the pickup can be 1/4" - 1/2" depending on what source you use - 3/8" seemed to come up more. I used my level on top of the washer stack so as to get the washer stack level with the block and get my clearances. I got 5/16" on one side of the pickup screen and 7/16" on the other to get the bottom of the pan leveled.

I installed my 1-peice BOP pan gasket (for an accurate measurement) and the cut oil pan to determine how much metal I had to add/weld in between the pan top half and pan bottom section. It measured around 2 1/2" on average. I then proceeded to use my die grinder and cut-off wheel to cut a 3" wide strip out of the Jeep fender.

Flattened out the 3" fender strip and I decided it would be easiest to create the extension in 4-pieces, the larger rear piece with its 2 bends, a front piece, and 2 corner pieces. I measured the pan circumference as to where I wanted the larger rear piece to fall on the pan and cut it. I rolled the corners over a round tube to get my bends to match the oil pan & sump bottom.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic #5 The oil pump is the Butler blueprinted Pro 60PSI pump for use with the 3/4" dia. pickup tube. The pickup tube/screen is the Moroso #24480 with the 3/4" dia. tube. When mounted to the oil pump, it sits approx. 2 3/4" below the bottom of the oil pump - keeping in mind that the Butler pump uses a thicker bottom plate.
> 
> I initially bolted the oil pump to the block and then inserted the pickup tube/screen snug enough that I could still move it. The pick-up base is not level from side-to-side as it had a slight angle. Placed my level across the screen and adjusted it to get the pick-up level from front-to-back with the oil pan rail. I then marked the pickup tube and oil pump for alignment with a Sharpie, removed the pump, and used an open end 3/4" wrench on the collar of the pickup tube and hammered the tube into the pump making sure the alignment remained straight. Got it secure, but did not want to hammer on the tube too much, so brought it to my machine shop to finish securing with their tool used to do the job and tack welded.
> 
> ...


Pic #8-9 I fitted the cut piece to the pan bottom using welding clamps designed for butt-welding 2 pieces together and tack welded the extension/sump bottom together. Removed the clamps and welded the 2 pieces solid together.

Pic #10 With the oil pump & pickup tube attached, screen shimmed, and the pan and gasket in place, I inserted the welded pan sump inside the opening of the pan and pushed it down until it made contact with the shims on the oil screen. Used my level to get the pan bottom leveled up and looked into the open front of the pan to confirm the pan was set correctly on the shims.
Using a Sharpie marker I went around the outside base of the pan where the pan and extension met to mark exactly where the welded extension piece needed to be trimmed. I was also adding an oil baffle to the back of the pan and used the Sharpie to mark inside the back of the pan where the bottom of the oil pump body was so that my rear oil baffle could be welded in and not interfere with the oil pump or pickup.

Pic #11 I made & shaped a 3" wide oil baffle to fit at the back of the pan that is positioned below the oil pump body and above the pickup screen. I cut 2 small slots in the attachment angle that gets welded to the back of the pan to allow any trapped oil to drain through - especially for an oil change.

Pic #12 I tack welded a rear oil baffle in - 3" wide and 1 " lip for attaching it to the back of the pan. I gave it an angled downward tilt, contoured it at the pan corners, and added 2 drain holes where I welded it at the back. Then I installed the pan to see where the pickup tube hit the baffle by looking in from the open front of the pan, marked the baffle along the sides of the pickup tube with a Sharpie to make my cut-out for the oil pickup tube for clearance and pan fit. Took a number of times replacing/removing the pan and opening up a slot for the pickup tube and finally got it. To protect the pickup tube from the sharp edged of the cut-out, I tack welded a small flat strip of metal along the cut-out edge and peened over the strip slightly away from the pickup tube. Plenty of room/distance between the oil pickup and cut-out, but just felt better adding the "bumper" strip. In the photo the pickup is offset to the right, but the pickup tube had not been fully seated by my machine shop.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic #8-9 I fitted the cut piece to the pan bottom using welding clamps designed for butt-welding 2 pieces together and tack welded the extension/sump bottom together. Removed the clamps and welded the 2 pieces solid together.
> 
> Pic #10 With the oil pump & pickup tube attached, screen shimmed, and the pan and gasket in place, I inserted the welded pan sump inside the opening of the pan and pushed it down until it made contact with the shims on the oil screen. Used my level to get the pan bottom leveled up and looked into the open front of the pan to confirm the pan was set correctly on the shims.
> Using a Sharpie marker I went around the outside base of the pan where the pan and extension met to mark exactly where the welded extension piece needed to be trimmed. I was also adding an oil baffle to the back of the pan and used the Sharpie to mark inside the back of the pan where the bottom of the oil pump body was so that my rear oil baffle could be welded in and not interfere with the oil pump or pickup.
> ...


Pic #13-14 Using my die grinder and cut-off wheel I removed the unneeded sheet metal following my Sharpie outline. I joined the 2-pieces together using my butt-weld clamps and tack welded the pieces together.

Pic #15. I measured, cut, shaped, tackwelded, the welded the front pan panel and then each side/corner panel. Much fitting, trimming, & shaping, but got it done. Next was water test it. Sure enough, I had 3 pin hole leaks at my welds. My mig welder just was not performing as well as I wanted, so some of my welds were a little narrow and adding more heat only caused "burn through" and left a larger hole/gap that I had to go back and fill. I repaired the leaks using my oxy-acytelene torches and welding rod which looked much better than the mig welds. Water tested again and all was dry.

I then added a brass fitting/bung to the rear/bottom of the sump. I had fitted my bellhousing to the back of my block with the pan on to make sure I was not going to hit anything. Plenty of room, so I drilled my hole and brazed it in.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pic #13-14 Using my die grinder and cut-off wheel I removed the unneeded sheet metal following my Sharpie outline. I joined the 2-pieces together using my butt-weld clamps and tack welded the pieces together.
> 
> Pic #15. I measured, cut, shaped, tackwelded, the welded the front pan panel and then each side/corner panel. Much fitting, trimming, & shaping, but got it done. Next was water test it. Sure enough, I had 3 pin hole leaks at my welds. My mig welder just was not performing as well as I wanted, so some of my welds were a little narrow and adding more heat only caused "burn through" and left a larger hole/gap that I had to go back and fill. I repaired the leaks using my oxy-acytelene torches and welding rod which looked much better than the mig welds. Water tested again and all was dry.
> 
> ...



Pics #16-17 I wanted to see what the level of the oil will be with the extended pan. I first marked on the side of the pan where the oil level would be with the stock pan as taken from my oil pan post. So in went 5 quarts of water which is now below what would have been 3 quarts in the stock pan.

Pic #18-19 In went another quart for a total fill of 6 quarts in the deepeded pan. The level is just at about the 3 1/2 quart fill on the stock pan. You can also see where the level is below the oil pan baffle.

EXTENDED PAN - Measurement of the pan extension is 2" at the front of the pan tapering to a 3" extension at the rear of the pan - based on the sump floor made level with the block's oil pan rail. This is added to the factory pan bottom which has a taper of 7 3/8" deep in front to 7 " deep at the rear making my pan 9 3/8" deep in the front and 10" at the rear.

5 Qts Oil - From top of pan rail to oil level - 5 1/4"

6 Qts Oil - From top of pan rail to oil level - 4 5/8"

I didn't measure for 7 or 8 quarts as I feel 6 quarts plus my remote 2 quart filter will be enough. My goal was to lower the oil fill level away from the crank. I won't be using a windage tray, but will be using a crank scraper. This plus the factory oil pan baffle and the added rear pan baffle should work well. If I should see any fluctuations in oil pressure on a hard launch, I can always add another quart of oil or two.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

PontiacJim said:


> Pics #16-17 I wanted to see what the level of the oil will be with the extended pan. I first marked on the side of the pan where the oil level would be with the stock pan as taken from my oil pan post. So in went 5 quarts of water which is now below what would have been 3 quarts in the stock pan.
> 
> Pic #18-19 In went another quart for a total fill of 6 quarts in the deepeded pan. The level is just at about the 3 1/2 quart fill on the stock pan. You can also see where the level is below the oil pan baffle.
> 
> ...


Pics #20-22 Finally done, I took the sandblaster to the inside and outside of the pan and cleaned up all the weld scale. Just for piece of mind, I applied a layer of JB Weld on all my welds on the outside of the pan. I let it dry for a week and painted the pan black.


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## Old Man Taylor (May 9, 2011)

Nice work Jim.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Old Man Taylor said:


> Nice work Jim.


Thanks. I did not think it was going to be as much work as it was. LOL The welding was a PITA. I even thought I might do better arc welding it and bought some thin welding rods, turned my heat way down, and played around with some scraps - butting them together and welding. That proved fruitless as the setting got lower the arc was just unstable and raising only burned through.

The mig did the trick, but I had to be careful so as not to get the metal too hot and burn a hole rather than lay down a bead of weld. I could have done a much better weld job using the oxy-acetylene torch and welding rod, but it puts way too much heat into the metal and warps it. Was fine for my little touch-ups. Tig welding may have been the best route, but I don't have a tig set-up yet - its on my bucket wish list. LOL

There were some aftermarket pans that held more oil and had the baffles, but they did not go deep, they went wide out at the base and used the stock pick-up tube/screen. Others did drop like I did and required the extended pick-up tube/screen. The thing to check is ground clearance, especially with the extended pan. I am going for a higher late 1970's stance all around and have the big block 454 front springs up front. With the fiberglass nose, I have taken a bunch of weight off the front end so it will sit up high. It may actually be too stiff with those springs, so I won't know until it hits the road. But, I don't think ground clearance in my instance will be an issue.


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

Wow! Good work but definitely not something I want to get into.

Something in your first photo caught my eye - the big dent that looks like maybe 2 dents and it's about 2" long. I have something similar in one of my pans and have no idea what would put a dent that deep into the pan. In my case it hit the windage tray so I used a different pan and will try fixing this one later. Do you have any idea what caused the dent in yours? You can see mine a bit over half way down on this page: http://www.aimsdc.net/gto/feb_2020.a5w


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

64since65 said:


> Wow! Good work but definitely not something I want to get into.
> 
> Something in your first photo caught my eye - the big dent that looks like maybe 2 dents and it's about 2" long. I have something similar in one of my pans and have no idea what would put a dent that deep into the pan. In my case it hit the windage tray so I used a different pan and will try fixing this one later. Do you have any idea what caused the dent in yours? You can see mine a bit over half way down on this page: http://www.aimsdc.net/gto/feb_2020.a5w


I have to assume that the "dent" is factory made. I too thought it odd, but the pan didn't show any signs of being hit or scraped up. It is also to well formed to be damage. I didn't have any issues that I am aware of of the indent hitting the windage tray when I set it down on top of it. Maybe your windage tray is bent if it is the side that the intermediate oil dipstick tube passes through? My thinking is that the pan is essentially used on all engines and models making it universal so the indent was placed there for clearance issues in one of the engine/body combo's rather than making one specific pan for just that model. Dents and damages are usually found on the bottom of the pan and mine had a small dent that I hammered out to get it flat again.

Here is a photo of the pan with the oil baffle set on top of the windage tray. You can see the indent in the pan. Can't see how the dimples would hit the windage tray when the oil baffle isn't hitting the windage tray.


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

The '64 was built differently. Here's a shot of mine - with notes for my daughter who wanted to know what "all that stuff is".
http://www.aimsdc.net/gto/jul20/oil_pump_and_windage_tray_25_noted.jpg
There is no baffle in the pan. (Maybe the idea was that the windage tray would also serve as a baffle and that's why it's so close to the pan??) The dent in the oil pan is on the dipstick side and you can see that the windage tray isn't dented. The engine that oil pan came from was a '64 GTO - one of my parts cars - but it's _possible _someone put a different engine in it. However, I don't think that's likely based on the intake manifold that I still have. I traded the engine to someone years ago so have no way to verify anymore. The only thing I know is that it had an automatic trans if that means anything. (And I still have the trans, shift linkage, and the 4 bbl intake manifold from that one. Hmmm, I think I still have the carb, too. Hopefully those will eventually help defray some of my costs.)

Oh well, I guess it's just another unsolved mystery. At least it's just a matter of curiosity and not holding up my progress.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

64since65 said:


> The '64 was built differently. Here's a shot of mine - with notes for my daughter who wanted to know what "all that stuff is".
> http://www.aimsdc.net/gto/jul20/oil_pump_and_windage_tray_25_noted.jpg
> There is no baffle in the pan. (Maybe the idea was that the windage tray would also serve as a baffle and that's why it's so close to the pan??) The dent in the oil pan is on the dipstick side and you can see that the windage tray isn't dented. The engine that oil pan came from was a '64 GTO - one of my parts cars - but it's _possible _someone put a different engine in it. However, I don't think that's likely based on the intake manifold that I still have. I traded the engine to someone years ago so have no way to verify anymore. The only thing I know is that it had an automatic trans if that means anything. (And I still have the trans, shift linkage, and the 4 bbl intake manifold from that one. Hmmm, I think I still have the carb, too. Hopefully those will eventually help defray some of my costs.)
> 
> Oh well, I guess it's just another unsolved mystery. At least it's just a matter of curiosity and not holding up my progress.


OK, I see what you have. I have seen that style of windage tray used on the 1957 engines. I don't know what years those were used and what year the full length windage tray was added, 1965? So if it hits the pan, either you don't have the correct pan for that style oil pump windage tray, or the pump/windage tray is not for that engine.

Check out the photos. I found a photo of the windage tray you have - the pic is said to be 1959-60 389. Photo 3-4 is an NOS 1964 389/421 Oil Pan and would be what yours should look like. Very different from the later pans. Note the two protruded dimples at the front of the pan. Does your pan look like this?

Are you sure you have a 1964 GTO 389 engine? Starter should attach to the engine. The typical 1964 engine attached the starter to the trans bellhousing. You should also have the "716" heads and oiling through the pushrods, not the rocker arm studs. Just curious as this may help ID whatever engine you do have if by chance it was swapped.

Pic #1 - I posted your photo so others can see.
Pic #2 - 1959-60 Pontiac windage tray.
Pic #3 - NOS 1964 389/421 Oil Pan
Pic #4 - NOS 1964 389/421 Oil Pan


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

You're right. I should have looked closer. I just assumed they were the same since they both came out of '64 GTOs.

The one from _my_ original car is like the one in your photos. Unfortunately, it's now on the engine and the engine is wrapped in shrink wrap so I can't take a picture of that.

After closer examination, that other one with the "dent" is more different than I thought. It came out of an engine that was in a '64 but I don't know the history of that engine. I've included a photo of the "dented" one with notes about what's different. Maybe it's a good thing the dent was there. I think the combination of the dent and the 3/4-1" shorter is what resulted in the interference. Either one alone would probably have fit - at least on the engine. But who knows what other interferences I might have run into if I had used that one. (I originally planned to use it because it needed less cleanup than mine.)

Anybody have any idea what it's from?









Posting a thumbnail of the "before cleaning" just as a test to find out the difference between posting a thumbnail vs. full size.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

64since65 said:


> You're right. I should have looked closer. I just assumed they were the same since they both came out of '64 GTOs.
> 
> The one from _my_ original car is like the one in your photos. Unfortunately, it's now on the engine and the engine is wrapped in shrink wrap so I can't take a picture of that.
> 
> ...


The "dent" is factory. Take a look at these pics from Eaby. Kinda looks like your pan. In one of the pics, looks like the one side is shorter.









1971-1974 Pontiac V8 Oil Pan 350 400 455 8 Cylinder GTO Trans Am | eBay


Hard to find early Pontiac oil pan. It’ll fit all Pontiac V8’s 1971-1979 except the 301. See pictures for condition and wear. Please note - applications are based upon various sources. - Although I try to make sure research is correct - it can be flawed. Please check and make sure this part will...



www.ebay.com


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## 64since65 (Dec 11, 2019)

This gets weirder and weirder. There is only one dent in my pan and there's one on both sides of the one shown on eBay. You can see in my thumbnail above that there is no dent on the other side. Maybe mine was unique to one of those years??? (That's just an observation; not looking for someone else to do the research.)

The windage tray in your photo is not quite the same as mine. If you look real close at the photo of my engine you can see that my windage tray comes to more of a point at the front and the dipstick attaches closer to the rib where the tray attaches to the bearing cap. I did check the fit and it's very close to the pan. I don't believe that squared off one in your photo would fit in my pan so it probably was unique to the earlier years.

As for, "looks like one side is shorter", yeah, I noticed that too. The 'dimples' near the front don't look symmetrical but it's just something about the way the photos were taken. The actual part looks symmetrical.

As to being sure I have a '64 engine. Yeah, pretty sure. My brother bought the car in '65 with 8,000 miles on it and I got it with 30,000 miles in '67 when he went in the army. By that time he'd beat it so badly that a cop gave me a ticket for excessive exhaust because he couldn't see to accelerate when I took off from a light at night - and it wasn't anywhere close to a full throttle start! So that was the first rebuild. I did rebuild it again at about 100,000 miles. Well, actually that second rebuild ended up being 3 rebuilds. They messed up the first attempt and had to redo it. Their rebuild of the rebuild also didn't work and I ended up redoing it myself. I originally had it rebuilt because of a rod knock and I told them about that - and the rod knock came back a few hundred miles (600+/-) after each of their rebuilds. I was going to GMI at the time and another guy there had similar problems with that company so we posted a letter on the bulletin board and sent a copy to the company. I don't think they got any business from GMI for a while.

It also looks like I better start thinking about setting up an eBay account where I can sell some of the extra parts I'm going to end up with. Maybe recoup a _little_ of my cost anyway.


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