# 455 dipstick woes...



## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

I am having a few problems with the dipstick on my 455. I checked the oil, re-inserted the dipstick tube and to my disgust the dipstick was hitting the crankshaft in the bottom end... 
Did the tube fall out of the windage tray or move? it is a two piece oil dipstick tube and they kind of pressed together in the block. No bracket to main caps. '73 455 block. It makes a 90 degree turn in my windage tray but now it appears the dipstick is going straight in and hitting the crank. My fear is that the lower dipstick tube also may turn and hit the crank and that would be catastrophic. I have a picture of it in my albums but using the mobile app it will not let me copy the link so I will post a picture here tomorrow unless someone is willing to have a look on my profile. 
It is in the album with engine shots, the cover photo is of a rear main cap with studs. I took a picture of my bottom end before sealing the oil pan up and you can see my setup. 
My rear main has dripped since the first mile I put on it so I might pull the engine and attempt to fix that along with this... 
I need some advice..


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Sounds like you already know what you have to do Ben. At least that's not the only reason you are pulling the engine so being that you were going to do it anyway.....

So, this isn't a problem I'm familiar with, a two piece dipstick tube? Can it be locktited in place? Can the tube be knurled for a tighter fit?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Originally, a '73 block would have main cap drilled and tapped to attach bracket off lower tube. Was bottom end assembled with earlier or aftermarket windage tray and early style lower tube? The lower tubes in factory windage tray blocks are held in place by interference fit, side of the tube as well as where it slides into the outer tube that is driven outward through the block. Engine, at minimum, is going to have to raised, and pan carefully dropped, in order to repair with correct parts.


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)




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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

That is a pic of my set up before sealing up the bottom end and putting in the car. This is a 3/4 tray from BOP engineering. Im thinking about welding the dip tick tube onto the windage tray... My main caps are not tapped for anything but the windage tray, unless they share the same bolts?


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)




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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)




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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

Son of a beach... Lower tube should have a bracket on it huh? That goes right to that middle cap i bet.. Wonder if itll stick work with my BOP tray.... ? ? ?


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

After talking to Wade @ BOP my motor wont use the bracket. The inner tube should slip fit the outer tube and be held in by the windage tray.. I thought i had it like that but.. Im gonna drain the oil, loosen the passenger side motor mount and try to lift the motor enough to drop the pan down and have a look see. My main drip is super slow, but its there. Dont really wanna yank a 3000 mile motor for this but if i gotta its graph tite rope seal time. 

Any tips on pulling the crank without popping the heads off? I have H-beams so its rod bolts not studs and nuts. I think it can probably be done without too much pain.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Hold on there, buckaroo... There are two different varieties of lower dipstick tubes for Pontiacs. One is intended to be used on cars with the factory windage tray, and when installed it gets "sandwiched" between the middle part of the tube (coming through the oil pan rail) and the windage tray. The swaged end inserts into the pan rail tube, and there's a wide spot on the other end of the tube to keep it from falling through the hole in the windage tray. You install the lower tube first, then the tray, and there should be no way for it to escape.

The other lower tube is a "without windage tray" tube and it's the one that has the tang welded on the side of it that's supposed to bolt directly to the main cap.

If you've got a "with tray" tube and it has now dropped off, either it wasn't installed right or the hole in the windage tray was too large and allowed the tube to slip through. In either case, if the tube has come off and is now rattling around in the pan (and it sounds like maybe it has) then I'd for sure not run the engine until I was able to get the pan off and set things right.

Bear


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh, and since you mentioned rear main.... the next time I'm into mine (it's leaking too) then I'm going to try one of the new one-piece seals. They sound like the cats pajamas to me...

BOP Engineering Engine Accessories

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

And since Bear reached over and grabbed the e-brake, I'll add this: you should pull the engine. Diagnosing and repairing your issue will be MUCH easier on an engine stand than under-car with no room and oil dripping in your eyes. You can easily remove the main caps and lift the crank about 1/4" without disassembling anything else, and slide in a new rear main seal. I second the use of a 1-piece, although I've heard Graph-tite seals are pretty reliable. Personally, I've gotten lucky with the last few 2 -piece Viton seals I've used. Several thousand miles each on a handful of cars, and no leaks yet, but all 3" journal engines. Seriously, pull it out and save yourself a ton of grief. An in-car bottom end repair is one of those shortcuts that is actually a long cut. And usually, in-car repairs are not as reliable. My 2 cents.


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## Chris-Austria (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know if that information may help you, but I bought a bigger pan with it's own dipstick. I like it a lot. The stock dipstick (with windage tray) I installed just the lower part and bent it so that it will not be able to move through the windage tray by any chance. On the 1 or 2" of the tube that sticks out of the engine I made a thread so that I could turn in a bolt that has a bigger head so it can never fall into the tube if something happens. I also used black Silicone for the hole in the block (not much) and for the bolt. Works perfect until now. I did that because I often read about problems with the stock type oil dipstick.

I'd remove the pan, check everything and maybe build it the same way I did. I like it a lot 

I also used the one piece rear main seal.. that thing is great.. well spent money.


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

The tube has not fallen out of the tray for sure cause if i stick the dipstick in there just at the right angle it still slides down the lower tube. I think the block tube maybe was not pounded in deep enough. Can someone have a look at my block pics and tell me if i needed to pound it in further? I will be pulling the motor and addressing it but i still need to know how far down that upper tube gets pounded into the block. 

Secondly im not 100% sure my rear main is the issue. So I cleaned everything off with brake cleaner and ran the car. I can see oil seeping out of the back of the pan very slowly but only when i shut it off and its very very little ( about the size of nickel drips out total onto the floor ) It kind of looks like its from the pan / cap seal or gasket not crank / cap seal. I have a BOP one piece on it. I can see the rear main cap above the pan and it looks dry but still oil seeps out and drips off the rear pan lip..


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

That might be part of your problem, if I'm understanding you correctly. The "middle" dip-stick tube does NOT get 'pounded down' into the block from the top. The correct way to install it is to insert it into the block from the oil pan side, all the way through. There's a wider flange on the end of the middle tube that seats against the inside of the block to secure it there. The short lower tube segment then inserts directly into the end of the middle tube. The only way to install the middle tube is to insert it from the oil pan side with the oil pan off the engine.

I just went back and tried to look at your photos, and to me it looks like I can see that tube flange is wedged up inside the block about 1/4 inch or so instead of seated around the edge of the hole through the block like it's supposed to be. Am I seeing that right?

Bear


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

So the motor is out. Back of the crank was dry as a bone, no RMS leak! Who hoo for the BOP 2 piece!! Turned out my oil sender by the distributor puked back there and it ran between block and bell housing down the back of the block. Easy fix! Wade @ BOP sent me the correct upper and lower tubes for my dipstick issue. I recommend his parts as he machines down the upper tube a tiny bit for a PERFECT fit. My upper tube was not in the block deep enough causing the lower one to fall out of it. Problem solved.


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

BearGFR said:


> That might be part of your problem, if I'm understanding you correctly. The "middle" dip-stick tube does NOT get 'pounded down' into the block from the top. The correct way to install it is to insert it into the block from the oil pan side, all the way through. There's a wider flange on the end of the middle tube that seats against the inside of the block to secure it there. The short lower tube segment then inserts directly into the end of the middle tube. The only way to install the middle tube is to insert it from the oil pan side with the oil pan off the engine.
> 
> I just went back and tried to look at your photos, and to me it looks like I can see that tube flange is wedged up inside the block about 1/4 inch or so instead of seated around the edge of the hole through the block like it's supposed to be. Am I seeing that right?
> 
> Bear


Yes that is right Bear, the upper tube was surely not in there far enough. I installed it from the outside in not inside out. A good note to make is that most you buy are too tight. Wade @ BOP is sending me a new set of tubes and a new dipstick. He mentioned the after market junk you get doesnt fit well and he machines them a little to perfection. Oil pan side out and leave enough for the lower tube to slip fit into it. The windage tray and lower tube kind of go in as one if you are doing it right. 

"Doing it right" a very helpful skill when assembling engines :lol: :banghead:


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