# 110 octane fuel



## SWGOAT (Nov 9, 2010)

Just getting the GTO out of storage, a local gas station has 110 race fuel for sale at the pump, any issues with using this fuel? I have a Diablosport predator tuner and minor mods, shorty headers, CAI, taylor wireset, NGK plugs, throttle body spacer, cat back with muffler delete. Do you need a tune for this fuel, I do not want to risk engine damage for performance gain.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

SWGOAT said:


> Just getting the GTO out of storage, a local gas station has 110 race fuel for sale at the pump, any issues with using this fuel? I have a Diablosport predator tuner and minor mods, shorty headers, CAI, taylor wireset, NGK plugs, throttle body spacer, cat back with muffler delete. Do you need a tune for this fuel, I do not want to risk engine damage for performance gain.


Why do you want to run it? You realize that there's absolutely zero performance gain in running more octane than the engine needs, right? 

The sole purpose of octane is to avoid detonation. Detonation happens when there's too much pressure in the cylinder. Cylinder pressure is a function of compression ratio and intake valve event timing.

Octane rating is a measure of a given fuel's ability to resist detonation - only. It has nothing to do with how much energy potential is in the fuel.

Put another way, if your motor doesn't detonate on 91 octane, its not going to run any faster or make any more power on 110.

Bear


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

You could add more timing, but I don't know if you could really get the power out of that high of an octane without raising the compression. If you're going to try it with a basic tuner, I'd play it safe and skip it. In old cars, after advancing the timing, I ran 100 Octane - never went higher though. They had nearly the same compression ratio as the LS2.

I can't remember the 'whys', because it's been so long, but I'm sure I had a good reason lol. With any luck one of the super car guys will post some super car guy 'this for this' type of rule.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Don't waste your money. Unless you're getting a lot of KR in your existing tune, running 110 is just going to be a wallet weight reduction.


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## danfigg (Sep 27, 2009)

*re*

Dam Poncho your all about weight reduction, I thought you would be all over this one Lighter the wallet the faster your car will be-----Danfigg


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

...it smells cool!!


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

Unless you're right behind it.....


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I run it 50-50 and LOVE the smell. 




but, then again, my car needs it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Mike_V said:


> You could add more timing, but I don't know if you could really get the power out of that high of an octane without raising the compression.


You've got it backwards. There is NO ADDITIONAL POWER in higher octane. The additional power comes directly from higher compression. The purpose of the higher octane fuel is to _allow you to run _ a higher compression ratio to create more cylinder pressure (power) without getting into detonation. Detonation _will_ eventually destroy the engine.

Bear


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

BearGFR said:


> The purpose of the higher octane fuel is to _allow you to run _ a higher compression ratio to create more cylinder pressure (power) without getting into detonation.


I know. I guess I could have worded it "you're not going to get more power for your money unless....".


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## The Detailer (Nov 1, 2009)

Save your money, Not needed


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## 42867Goat (Apr 5, 2011)

I think 110 is probably the VP110, which is Leaded. That said, cars with catalytic converters, O2 sensors.... anything other than pipe behind the exhaust will fail.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

racing fuel doesn't have the proper lubricity required to run in daily drivers. just an FYI. it will brake the engine down before it's time. run corn fuel E-85 1 gallon to 10 gallons of 91 octane. just don't do it often. the small power out put you get from corn can be addicting.however corn fuel is much heavier than pump gas and require bigger injectors and a tune. not worth it in the long run because of the thirst the engine has for corn. it will drink it.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

42867Goat said:


> I think 110 is probably the VP110, which is Leaded. That said, cars with catalytic converters, O2 sensors.... anything other than pipe behind the exhaust will fail.


not so much. racing fuel is man made fuel not a full fossil fuel. it's missing some lubricity property's that engines need for the valve train. leaded fuel is outlawed.

2ndly . 110 burns much cooler than 91 and that is great for eliminating detonation. but, it plays hell on cat's and o2 censors so yes. 42867goat is right. and fail they will if they don't operate at optimal temperature


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Wow... it's amazing the amount of folklore and misinformation that circulates around about some car-related topics. Fuel and octane is certainly one of those topics.

One more time... You do NOT make more power by running higher octane fuel. Period. End of story. The benefits of the higher octane are to ALLOW you to make MECHANICAL modifications to the engine that increase dynamic cylinder pressure and run the motor without it going into detonation conditions. The increased power comes from the MECHANICAL MODIFICATIONS - NOT the fuel! (pant pant)

(Ok... I'm better now)

VP does make an unleaded high octane fuel that's 50-state legal: VP100 - VP-100 Fuel It's 100 octane and is also safe for all emission system components and cat-cons.

VP110 is a different animal. VP110 is a LEADED race fuel. It's also a fossil fuel just like all the rest - it's not a synthetic. The presence of LEAD in the fuel means that it has MORE LUBRICITY (not less) than unleaded fuel. The purpose of tetraethyl lead in fuel is to do two things: 1 is to increase the octane rating, 2 is to ADD LUBRICATION for the exhaust valve seats. The presence of LEAD in the fuel will also destroy all the sensors that are critical to correct operation of computer controlled systems, and it will destroy the catalytic converter(s). Those last bits are the reasons that lead was removed from street use fuels in the first place.

Despite all that, there are still people who will continue to cling to the mistaken belief that running higher octane fuel in an engine but making no other changes will result in more power output. Maybe they'd be interested in buying my special set of Mickey Thompson High-Speed Low-Restriction bumper bolts.... 

Bear


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I thought the lead was to cool the exhaust valves/seats, not lube them? :confused


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Rukee said:


> I thought the lead was to cool the exhaust valves/seats, not lube them? :confused


Here's some research on the topic I did:


"Why Can’t Older Engines Use Unleaded Fuel?
By far the biggest problem arising from using unleaded fuel on older engines is a condition known as valve seat recession (VSR). Without the protective lead coating (previously provided by leaded fuel) on the exhaust valve seats, the intense heat (650°C) and hammering effect of the valves opening and closing, causes iron deposits from the valve seat to become micro-welded to the valve edge. Left unchecked, this continual tearing away of metal particles will result in the exhaust valve digging a deeper and deeper hole for itself into the cylinder head. Eventually, and often within only a few thousand miles, the engine will breakdown completely and it will require an expensive overhaul. To combat this problem, modern petrol engines have special hardened valve seats which can withstand this harsh environment."

"As valve wear preventive Tetraethyl lead works a buffer against microwelds forming between the hot exhaust valves and their seats.[2] Once the valves would reopen, the microwelds would pull apart and leave the valves with a rough surface that would abrade the seats, leading to valve recession. When lead began to be phased out of motor fuel, the automotive industry began specifying hardened valve seats and upgraded exhaust valve materials to prevent valve recession without lead."

So I guess maybe "lubrication" isn't exactly a precise description, but it's close.


You'll find opinions all over the map regarding whether or not the above consitutes a risk to the "normal" street driven engine. Some say it's always a bad idea, some say it's only a problem for engines that are regularly subjected to high load conditions such as pulling a trailer up-hill. I guess I've sort of volunteered to be a guinea pig because on my 461 I'm running a pair of rare genuine #722 Ram Air IV heads on unleaded 93 octane. I'm also running a solid roller cam, so if I find over time that I'm "constantly" having to re-adjust the lash on my exhaust valves only, then that'll be a clue that I'm experiencing exhaust seat recession.

Bear


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## HP11 (Apr 11, 2009)

9 months between post #11 and post #12. And it's actually a different topic being discussed now than originally and more interesting than the somewhat(!) ludicrous thought of putting 110 octane leaded gas in a 04-06 GTO......


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## crash60 (Dec 26, 2011)

Hi, New to the site, but had experience with old muscle cars in the 70's. Racing gas does nothing for the money it costs. Keep in mind you have an aluminum block. A new motor is going to cost you big bucks. Why the need for more power is beyond me unless your on a drag strip or planning a trip to the moon. The car 0 to 60 is almost the same as a vette. If you get around the limiter on trans, it'll come close to 200 mph with an airdam. They will get airborn at about 180. Maybe it's time for a set of wings. I've done 145 mph and had to shut it down. Be careful. A junkyard in Ohio is full of GTO mistakes.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

Gasoline, when used in high-compression internal combustion engines, has a tendency to autoignite (detonate) causing damaging "engine knocking" (also called "pinging" or "pinking") noise. Early research into this effect was led by A.H. Gibson and Harry Ricardo in England and Thomas Midgley and Thomas Boyd in the United States. The discovery that lead additives modified this behavior led to the widespread adoption of their use in the 1920s, and therefore more powerful, higher compression engines. The most popular additive was tetra-ethyl lead. With the discovery of the extent of environmental and health damage caused by the lead, however, and the incompatibility of lead with catalytic converters found on virtually all newly sold US automobiles since 1975, this practice began to wane (encouraged by many governments introducing differential tax rates) in the 1980s.

In the US, where lead had been blended with gasoline (primarily to boost octane levels) since the early 1920s, standards to phase out leaded gasoline were first implemented in 1973 - due in great part to studies conducted by Philip J. Landrigan. In 1995, leaded fuel accounted for only 0.6% of total gasoline sales and less than 2000 short tons (1814 t) of lead per year. From 1 January 1996, the Clean Air Act banned the sale of leaded fuel for use in on-road vehicles. Possession and use of leaded gasoline in a regular on-road vehicle now carries a maximum $10,000 fine in the US. However, fuel containing lead may continue to be sold for off-road uses, including aircraft, racing cars, farm equipment, and marine engines.[8] Similar bans in other countries have resulted in lowering levels of lead in people's bloodstreams.

this is getting old.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

Rukee said:


> I thought the lead was to cool the exhaust valves/seats, not lube them? :confused


well. OK then . *coat them then*. i didnt think this was a big deal

dont put that 110 in your fuel tank is all im trying to say.

use corn fuel instead.


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## bills_zpam (Sep 22, 2011)

It's probably been beaten to death at this point, but never put higher octane fuel in your car (any car) than what it's rated for. It's just a waste of money. Higher octane is just to prevent premature detonation due to compression, so unless you've done something to increase compression, it does nothing.


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