# Where do I post "BUYER BEWARE" ?



## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

On this forum about a car for sale in Clovis, CA that was on Ebay where the buyers are trying to mislead (totally) that it is a tripower car, and the PHS I got for the car says it isn't? If I put it on Cars for Sale, I figure it will get flagged? Please advise, because not only are they misleading, they took my deposit and won't return it.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Why not notify Ebay? 

I have reported false GTO's etc in the past and they acted on it.
If you are having a dispute with it you will need to have it arbitrated by Ebay and hope for the best. 

While I can sympathize with your dilemma its a he said she said thing. I have pulled threads in the past because of a buyers stating false advertising but have gotten really nasty with the post. Post the link to the sale as a buyer beware for others on here to see but keep it clean. Post it in the 64-74 GTO general discussion. Keep in mind we have no way of knowing if the advertising is on the up and up.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

I am currently going through the dispute resolution with Paypal blah blah blah. But this car is bound to show up again on Ebay or Craig's and of course, like every other 64-66 GTO the seller "knows" it is a "tri-power" car because their Dad owned it since 1979 or something. Notwithstanding the PHS (which according to them is wrong!) I just want all interested GTO potential buyers to know that I have the PHS for the car and it is NOT a tri-power car, and to be very wary of the sellers. They have had the car on the Fresno craig's List and on Ebay. It is currently down as we are engaged in a dispute over the deposit monies. Silly me took their word for it that the deposit money would hold the car until the PHS came the next day. It did, they didn't like it, and they won't return my deposit or my calls. Ultimately I expect that since I used my credit card for the good faith money, and received nothing, I will get the dough, but these sellers are no good! Here is the link on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...60400311124&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123

pm me if you want particulars


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Wow, for never leaving California, that thing is in really rough shape! Good job on ordering the PHS documentation before buying. Good luck on your deposit back. :cheers


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

After 3-4 calls, a long conversation with what I thought were reasonable and fair people, I later found out they were somehow "middle man" for a friend and he insists the car is as advertised and in words "that phs thing is bull-s_it and wrong so screw you" (I cleaned it up a tad.) I just want folks to know before they jump on what they think is a Tripower car, having that neat little 'ram air' pan there only entices people to think it could be as well. I wouldn't be surprised by anything these days, sadly enough. However the shame is on me for dealing with them in the first place after seeing the 88% feedback. If they had John Delorean's personal GTO I would walk away, normally, so I don't know why I even engaged with them in the first place. 

Just spread the word on the car, anyone really need to buy the thing or end up with 66 GTO VIN 242176P221026, let me know since I bought the PHS as I always do. It is in my file. Caveat Emptor


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

At least you were wise enough to put the deposit on a CC and with your proof of the PHS showing false advertising your CC company will back you in the dispute. Sad thing is someone out there will end up purchasing that car under false representation. At least it won't be you. Perfect example of getting the PHS before purchasing.


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## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Not to rub salt but what else was wrong about the advertisement relative to PHS?

I ask because I thought tri-power could be purchased and installed by the dealer...that wouldn't show up on the PHS. Please correct me if I'm off on this.

Not trying to defend your pals, 88% feedback tells me all I need to know. Just curious.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I think for $2000, who cares if it's a Tripower or not... sure, false advertising and whatever, but when prices are that low, people shouldn't be thumbing their noses at whether or not it's numbers matching... hell a rolling chassis minus motor & trans in that shape would probably be worth just as much.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

no no no - we agreed, IF it was a TRIPOWER CAR as advertised, it was $4500 for a 'buy it now' But I have to tell you when I even broached that it was NOT after I got PHS, I got the drift that these folks were pissed off royally. I said, the "phs came back and it was not a Tripower so I unfortunately will not be buying the car, and that they should relist it (honestly now that they knew) and send me back my deposit less the 20$ Ebay fee for relist, and I will even let you have the PHS I bought" -yet they were in denial and said they would not sell me the car or refund my $ because, as I said "The phs was wrong." 

To the point-'Dealer installed' or not, who knows. PHS is the final word. Dealer-schmealer, means nothing what the dealer or the owner did after the build sheet was made. Tell that to the next buyer and see how it goes.

When you state THREE TIMES in an ad, and then verbally swear it IS a tripower car, and i say, "OK lets get the PHS to find out, OK?" and they say "OK" and then DENY that the PHS has any validity and then hang up and refuse to answer calls, how would you like to deal with these folks? Trust them much now? When I send a deposit, I would like to have my calls returned! They just want to keep the $ and sell it again- AS A TRIPOWER CAR! So watch for the re-list and see. I scanned and emailed them the PHS, and told them they could have it and it was an asset for the car. Yet when the car is re-listed, I will eat my hat if the auction or ad states the truth and shows the PHS scan...time will tell. Some folks are in denial. 

Bottom line, would I pay 2500 for the car as is? Yeah. Would I pay 4500- NO. Can, I talk to them about it, or get them to answer my emails or calls? NO. Basically their attitude is "F.U. go away, we are not talking to you since you shattered our perception of reality and shared with us the truth. And for that we are keeping your "hold deposit" and never mind what we told you- our word is no good."

Lessons learned- don't conclude a deal or send deposit$ until AFTER you have PHS in hand. Don't deal with low feedback sellers. Always get the PHS first, unless you are buying a parts car! Use credit card on paypal if you must use paypal at all.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

If a seller is caught in a lie I would in no way trust anything he has to say.
I don't care how cheap the price of a car is.
I had dealings with a guy telling me the title to a 70 Lemans was good when in fact it was an open title. I detailed this escapade in a thread, it is archived.

I called the deal off the day he was going to deliver it. The name on the title was that of the original owner and it was NEVER signed off to this guy and it was not notarized. Yet, he insisted the car was indeed his. Maybe maybe not, the bottom line is.... paperwork was NOT in order. How do I know for sure? How was I to know the title would clear PA DMV? I balked at the last minute when after taking his word the title was good and upon verifying it before he delivered it and we went to transact it... even after he suggested I put my name on as the buyer as the 2nd party when in fact I was at least 3rd party. I would have been caught in the middle of an illegal act and possibly taking delivery of an illegaly gained car and the guy selling it to me his name showing nowhere in paperwork.... well... no way was I going to be put into a position to be had. 

I can see where Uncsamns is coming from. There are just some slime out there dabbling in this and an 88% rating is poor. 88% positive rating in only 159 feedbacks speaks volumes. I'd a balked at this car too.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

Honestly, I have dealt with paupers and princes and everyone in between. Some shadier than others I have to admit. But after 26 years into cars, buying selling, swapping, dealing, restoring, collecting, flipping, and just loving the colorful people and the stories, the trips, the cars, the parts, the back swamps, the hillbillies, the city clickers, the barn finds, the whole nine yards- MOST people have been essentially decent and I have been able to deal with them. In my professional life I have been called on to mediate disputes between certain political "entities" in my home state and region. I am a calm and reasoned person who likes to do business with all types (as I said)- but this guy (or guys) is NO GOOD (and I suspect politely- there may be chemical factors involved based on their radical behavior and mood swings) ...so GTOers- BE CAREFUL on this car and on this deal IF you are looking for a 66-67 4 spd car and think this one is worth looking at. It isn't only because of the sellers. Nothing good can come from dealing with them.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree. The 1st owner may have had the dealer put the Tri-Power on even before delivery, it doesn't make it a 'factory' Tri-power car.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Poncho Dan said:


> I think for $2000, who cares if it's a Tripower or not... sure, false advertising and whatever, but when prices are that low, people shouldn't be thumbing their noses at whether or not it's numbers matching... hell a rolling chassis minus motor & trans in that shape would probably be worth just as much.


Doesn't matter if you spend $1000 on a car or $100,000 on a car; it still needs to advertised for what it is.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

well said


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## gtomuscle (Dec 11, 2009)

Goes to show anybody looking to buy a Pontiac PHS is a MUST


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I went and looked at this car back in October. It needed way too much work, and the price then was 6500 firm. I was able to determine at that time that it was NOT a tripower car (as was stated to me then) by the thin radiator core support. The tripower cars had the thick, 4-row rad core support. I estimated that it would have taken about 30 grand (not counting all my free labor) to get it on the road. Not worth it. I walked away.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

jpalamar said:


> Doesn't matter if you spend $1000 on a car or $100,000 on a car; it still needs to advertised for what it is.


I'll agree with that, but I've had people jerk me around with my GP just because they want all the numbers to match.  Craigslist FTL.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

Well there is a big diff between a tripower car and a 4 brl car, and I want a real Tripower car. That is what I was and am shopping for!


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

If you're looking for a "factory original" tri-power, good luck. But if you want to slap on a Tri-power, they can usually be found, manifold + carbs for $800-1200 depending on the condition.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

You know, they are still out there. I know of one yet can't get the owner to part with it being that he is 79 years old and has an attachment to it. It makes this one look GREAT! LOL True story!


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Unclesams said:


> Well there is a big diff between a tripower car and a 4 brl car, and I want a real Tripower car. That is what I was and am shopping for!


If you haven't started a claim with your cc yet, do so ASAP. I can tell you from experience that PayPal isn't going to help you on a car that old and in that condition. They have too many loopholes built in to relieve themselves and sellers from "unforeseen and hidden issues". A car in that condition is considered exempt. It took me 6 months to get a 1k deposit back for a misrepresented Camaro 3 years ago but my cc company took it right out of his account after Paypal refused to get it for me. 
Print every piece of electronic documentation there is about the car and their statement that it was a tri-power. You will need a solid paper trail to back up your claim. Do it now before it disappears from eBay. Also print out paper copies of any email correspondence you received from them.
If you present your case to the cc inspector with facts and proof you should get a refund. Hopefully the seller has an open cc account for them to go after.
I know how you feel and wish you the best with this.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

I did all of that and will even file a police report with the locals. The seller has a verified Paypal account too. And you are right, Paypal basically said "Drop dead" in a legalistic and polite way to me and rejected the claim immediately after I typed it all up. They don't even have a person looking at it, I submitted it and it came up rejected immediately. I called and talked to someone and it was explained to me, basically what you just said. Caveat emptor.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

Good news- My Discover Card sided with me and upheld that the dirtbag sellers had no right to steal my Paypal money. They credited my account in full and apparently Paypal now draws the $ right back out of the seller's account to cover themselves (as per the member agreement)...So if you hadn't followed this thread, the lesson is to USE YOUR CREDIT CARD WHEN BUYING THROUGH YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT!

I have had a discover Card since 1988, and I would have hated to cancel the card after all these years, and I was please they stuck with me. Kudos to Discover Card! Shame on Paypal for their 'drop dead' attitude. I will avoid the use of Paypal as much as possible in the future.

Let the buyer beware and Godspeed to the folks trying to buy a nice GTO!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Unclesams said:


> So if you hadn't followed this thread, the lesson is to USE YOUR CREDIT CARD WHEN BUYING THROUGH YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT!


Absolutely! I use my Cabela's card. That way I get the points too.

Glad it all worked out for ya!:cheers


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Congrats on the WIN....arty:

Try to buy something on eBay anymore without using Pay Pal. Ebay has been working for the last 18 months to make Pay Pal the exclusive funding source for purchases. I used to list my auctions as cash or money order only but they forced sellers to include Pay Pal. They even reject some auctions with wording in the payment section for accepting money orders. They want to control EVERYTHING.... I do very little with eBay anymore.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Congrats!

I and others on here advocate using CC's for this sole reason. This is a prime example of one not getting hosed. Hopefully others will read this and keep this in mind when they make a purchase on line no matter what it is.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

Sad but true. I have successfully used cash and MO's buying and selling. Communication is the key. Most people are honest it is the few idiots that screw you up.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

GOOD JOB 1 I always pay with a credit card on e-bay!!! NOW go to 1967 GTO for sale and buy my goat!:cheers


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Watch paypal. I bought a CPU for my computer 3 years ago and the guy never shipped it. I tried to get the money back from paypal and they said I could only get 200 for the CPU because he had less then 50 sells, he was 100% feed back at the time. Once I sent bad feed back, like 5 other people in the same week got ripped off to. They sent me emails about it and posted bad feed back on the guy. I had to file a police report with the bank and they went after paypal. They got me my money but paypal closed my account. I also got bad feed back from the seller. That I couldn't reverse for a couple years till ebay changed their rules on buyer's ratings. It took 2 years with paypal to get them to let me use them. It is a mother to try to buy off ebay with out paypal. I just don't get it, I get ripped off and I look like a bad guy, and have to jump thru hoops. The CPU Was over $600. If paypal is going to be 3rd party and take your money to buy something then they take responsibility on the product at least for it to ship safely.


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## Unclesams (Jun 5, 2009)

A little birdie told me the guy has the car on CL again as a "tri power" car (even though he now KNOWS better) so I figure I should sell that PHS report I spent 50 bucks on. Anyone buying the car can purchase it for just 25 bucks from me! HALF PRICE!

Re:1966 Gto project PHS report for sale


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Unclesams said:


> A little birdie told me the guy has the car on CL again as a "tri power" car (even though he now KNOWS better) so I figure I should sell that PHS report I spent 50 bucks on. Anyone buying the car can purchase it for just 25 bucks from me! HALF PRICE!
> 
> Re:1966 Gto project PHS report for sale


You should list the VIN# on that add so if a potential buyer googles the VIN your add will pop up. :cheers


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