# Best/cheapest/easiest to install GTO mods



## TeHKasperek (Nov 23, 2008)

I know it's a hard to answer question, I have a 2005 pontiac gto auto trans I bought a cold air intake but I was told I wasted my money on getting it. Before I waste anymore money which headers should I get? I'm also not super rich so price happens to kinda be an issue. I'm also looking to get a upgraded exhaust and a chip programmer.


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## alsgto04 (Nov 21, 2007)

Welcome to the forum.

I dont know how you wasted your money on a cai. Mostly everyone on this forum has a cai, dont know why you were told that.

Header wise it all depends if you want to go with long tubes or shorties.

On a exhaust i know it'll be good to get a cat back exhaust.

And about a chip programmer i really dont know one who haves one. Good luck.


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## TeHKasperek (Nov 23, 2008)

whats the difference in shorties or long? I'm looking at the cortex tuner because it offers a 2 year powertrain warranty to your car which is really amazing


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

alsgto04 said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> I dont know how you wasted your money on a cai. Mostly everyone on this forum has a cai, dont know why you were told that.
> 
> ...


i'll tell him that. they are greatly over rated and just because "every one is getting one" isn't a reason in itself to get one. most of the the perceived increase in power, just like an exhaust, is due to the illusion caused by a louder sound. lots of guys have run with a K&N drop in with the 2 hole mod and run track times as good as the "C"AIs. i've also done a lot of actual street testing of intakes and found that they weren't very good at being cold air intakes at all. putting a little shield around them doesn't do much as they still have to pull the air from somewhere and it isn't an optimal place. catbacks are the same thing. greatly over rated. until you've surpassed its ability to breath by way of significant power mods the stock one's fine. if i did anything to a '05-'06 goat it would be to put on a x pipe and replace the mufflers. you aren't going to gain a thing by doing more. 
to the OP *long tube headers* are probably the best power mod you can do followed by a tune to start out with. there is a slight difference from brand to brand with Kooks probably being the best. Stainless Works also makes really good ones. i have SLPs and they were bought because i got them priced right, they also come coated which helps keep heat out of the engine bay. ARH are in the next tier, so is dynatech and are ok. pacesetters are on the cheap end. any of the other brands can be coated at an additional cost. i also think a shifter like a GMM or Billet is a really great first mod as you'll enjoy and use it every day


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

svede1212 said:


> i'll tell him that. they are greatly over rated and just because "every one is getting one" isn't a reason in itself to get one. most of the the perceived increase in power, just like an exhaust, is due to the illusion caused by a louder sound. lots of guys have run with a K&N drop in with the 2 hole mod and run track times as good as the "C"AIs. i've also done a lot of actual street testing of intakes and found that they weren't very good at being cold air intakes at all. putting a little shield around them doesn't do much as they still have to pull the air from somewhere and it isn't an optimal place. catbacks are the same thing. greatly over rated. until you've surpassed its ability to breath by way of significant power mods the stock one's fine. if i did anything to a '05-'06 goat it would be to put on a x pipe and replace the mufflers. you aren't going to gain a thing by doing more.
> to the OP *long tube headers* are probably the best power mod you can do followed by a tune to start out with. there is a slight difference from brand to brand with Kooks probably being the best. Stainless Works also makes really good ones. i have SLPs and they were bought because i got them priced right, they also come coated which helps keep heat out of the engine bay. ARH are in the next tier, so is dynatech and are ok. pacesetters are on the cheap end. any of the other brands can be coated at an additional cost. i also think a shifter like a GMM or Billet is a really great first mod as you'll enjoy and use it every day


Very well put, I went with a resonator delete and Flowmaster 44 mufflers as my first mods. As the car came with an LSS shifter when I got it, which I prefer over the stock shifter, but would not recommend over GMM or Billet.
I would go with a CAI after you've got more mods done to the car including more exhaust work, so you can really feel the CAI doing its job, but its already done so don't even worry about it.
As for headers, mentioning that your not in the position to drop loads of cash on Kooks or SLP (being the best overall), I would go with Pacesetters.... They are the best bang-for-the-buck on LT's.
Although X-pipe will give a bit more in performance, I'm going to stick with my plans on getting an H-pipe basically for the sound.
My starting plans are to go for sound instead of gaining 1 or 2 more hp from a crappy sound. If your not in the position to drop big bucks on cam or anything yet, so until the day you are, I'd keep my plans to what satisfies you at the moment. Just my 0.02


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

sounds is no doubt a preference but i think x's have been greatly maligned. the one that makes me laugh is the "exotic" label for an x. mine sounds far from a Ferrari


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

Sounds good Chief! I agree, the exotic label is like ......a sick joke that got out of hand? X give out more of a sharp metallic note, rather the deep rumble of an H.


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## alsgto04 (Nov 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> i'll tell him that. they are greatly over rated and just because "every one is getting one" isn't a reason in itself to get one. most of the the perceived increase in power, just like an exhaust, is due to the illusion caused by a louder sound. lots of guys have run with a K&N drop in with the 2 hole mod and run track times as good as the "C"AIs. i've also done a lot of actual street testing of intakes and found that they weren't very good at being cold air intakes at all. putting a little shield around them doesn't do much as they still have to pull the air from somewhere and it isn't an optimal place. catbacks are the same thing. greatly over rated. until you've surpassed its ability to breath by way of significant power mods the stock one's fine. if i did anything to a '05-'06 goat it would be to put on a x pipe and replace the mufflers. you aren't going to gain a thing by doing more.
> to the OP *long tube headers* are probably the best power mod you can do followed by a tune to start out with. there is a slight difference from brand to brand with Kooks probably being the best. Stainless Works also makes really good ones. i have SLPs and they were bought because i got them priced right, they also come coated which helps keep heat out of the engine bay. ARH are in the next tier, so is dynatech and are ok. pacesetters are on the cheap end. any of the other brands can be coated at an additional cost. i also think a shifter like a GMM or Billet is a really great first mod as you'll enjoy and use it every day




So are you trying to say that they are no good (cai) that all the dyno proven test that they do on them are bull sh*t. Kind of confused here?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

alsgto04 said:


> So are you trying to say that they are no good (cai) that all the dyno proven test that they do on them are bull sh*t. Kind of confused here?


well first of all you have to look at the "proven dyno tests". they are compared to stock filter/boxes not modded boxes with high flow filters. the second thing is the tests are conducted with the hood open and a large fan blowing cool air into the engine bay. hardly what you do on the road/track. the intake can also affect the tune as it can lean out the air fuel ratio. tunes optimizing each intake tested should have been done. the tests have some merit but you have to take in all of the variables to really draw any conclusion and then it's only part of the picture.
if you look at my last post in my intake thread up in the sticky you can see how intakes should be tested. it's not as sexy as posting a dyno HP number but it's more to the point. an intake only does 3 things and they can be measured. 
1. to keep the incoming air clean. 
2. to do it as close to ambient temperature as possible under all conditions. 
3. to deliver that cool air with as little restriction as possible. 

1. the filtering is how many microns or whatever it filters to.
2.the temp is easily measured with the IAT sensor and it really needs to be done under actual conditions, i.e. stopped, heat soaked and driven until the IAT temp comes down to it's lowest point. the longer it takes and the higher above ambient it is the worse it's doing and the least optimum power.
3. MAP is a measurement of inner intake manifold pressure in kpa. whatever the barometric pressure is that day is the highest pressure that normally is in the manifold. for reference 30 Hg mercury is 100 kpa. a restriction due to the engine sucking in air and intake system restricting it, results in a kpa below whatever the ambient/static pressure is. you want it as close as you can to that static kpa at WOT but the tubing's diameter, smoothness, length and bends restrict as well as the filter, MAF, TB and intake manifold. 
from that you can see that you can easily evaluate an intake and do it more accurately than you can with a dyno.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Aramz06 said:


> Sounds good Chief! I agree, the exotic label is like ......a sick joke that got out of hand? X give out more of a sharp metallic note, rather the deep rumble of an H.


some of that metallic/hollow sound is the Spintech mufflers. they have a slightly more metallic sound. my buddy had his with a x and magnaflows and it sounded probably more like you're looking for


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## TeHKasperek (Nov 23, 2008)

Ok so now that I have my cai should I get shortie or long headers? whats the difference?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

LTs or stay home . the only way i'd get shorties is if i had to pass some CARB crap. LTs make more power due to their better scavenging. headers are like a pipe organ. the pipes are tuned to a "note". you can't get the one you want out of a shorter pipe


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

I would not recommend cheaping out on anything. If you dont have the money right now for Kooks long tubes or SLP long tubes. Then save up. If all of us are telling you they sound great and are some of the best out there. Then just save. U will feel better when u know u have quality under the hood.


Expect to spend about 1350 for headers and the mid pipes. If you want them coated without cats like I did. With cats is about 250 more.


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## Ninjured (Apr 28, 2006)

Kooks stepped headers, catted mids, corsa sport (w/x-pipe)
YouTube - It is ALIVE

(oh, this is a new install with heads/cam -numbers coming soon)


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

See.... all you guys got it wrong... lol. The best way to make a car faster are in 2 steps.

1. Improve the driver (always net's faster times, and is compatible with all future cars)
2. Improve the car... by selling it.

I'm willing to bet a considerable amount of money, that most of us here aren't driving this beast of a car to its full potential. I've beaten the same car, 06 6 speed, even the same color, and this guy had an intake, tune, headers, full exhaust and better tires. I still snatched an extra .30 less in the 1320, and 4 more mph.

In regards to the car.... I know GTO's a great cars, and have a lot of potential.... but why? If you want a faster car.... BUY a faster car. Save your money, and get a Vette, used Viper, or something else that's quicker out of the box.

The only performance mods that are REALLY needed on this slab of americana are some serioius suspension and brake work. I really doubt you're getting/driving all your 400 hp to their full potential as we speak.
Just my $0.02.


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## Ninjured (Apr 28, 2006)

exwrx said:


> See.... all you guys got it wrong... lol. The best way to make a car faster are in 2 steps.
> 
> 1. Improve the driver (always net's faster times, and is compatible with all future cars)
> 2. Improve the car... by selling it.
> ...


I'm not sure if you're trolling or just unhappy with your GTO. I don't want a faster car. I want a faster *GTO*. It's about the entire package. If I wanted a vette, I would have bought a vette. 

The GTO is a much better overall package IMO. Much more versatile. Holds four people and can get in my friends driveway. I have a better, more comfortable interior in my GTO that I have driven down dirt roads and mountain roads no self respecting corvette owner would even dream of. Then there is the subtlety thing the GTO gives that the ol' Corvette/Viper persona will never match.

BTW, I, too, have beat faster cars with my slow ass GTO, including a C6 vette. And if we can't drive our lowly GTO's to their potential, what makes you think getting a faster car will do to change that?

@TeHKasperek- whatever you decide to do, get it tuned, too


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

TeHKasperek said:


> I know it's a hard to answer question, I have a 2005 pontiac gto auto trans I bought a cold air intake but I was told I wasted my money on getting it. Before I waste anymore money which headers should I get? I'm also not super rich so price happens to kinda be an issue. I'm also looking to get a upgraded exhaust and a chip programmer.


You money was not waisted on a Cold Air Intake. They do work. If you are looking for a good set of headers and money is a issue, purchase a set of Pacesetters Coated Headers. They are a quality item at a fair price. As far as a exhaust system [ cat back ] there are several good brands to pick from such as Borla,Magnaflow just to name a few.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

LOWET said:


> You money was not waisted on a Cold Air Intake. They do work. If you are looking for a good set of headers and money is a issue, purchase a set of Pacesetters Coated Headers. They are a quality item at a fair price. As far as a exhaust system [ cat back ] there are several good brands to pick from such as Borla,Magnaflow just to name a few.


i've done testing on the LPE and K&N and they lack, period. the MAPs are not much better than a stock box plus they aren't that good at providing cold air. if you have some real data ie. IAT or MAP logs i'd be interested. almost every claim i've seen is anecdotal, dyno or ET which all are imprecise and arbitrary. an intake is about filtering, flow and temps. you can get real data for all of them


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> i've done testing on the LPE and K&N and they lack, period. the MAPs are not much better than a stock box plus they aren't that good at providing cold air. if you have some real data ie. IAT or MAP logs i'd be interested. almost every claim i've seen is anecdotal, dyno or ET which all are imprecise and arbitrary. an intake is about filtering, flow and temps. you can get real data for all of them


The K&N and LPE lack because the filters they use are only rated at 650 CFMs. The AEM unit has a filter rated at 1350 CFMs


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

LOWET said:


> The K&N and LPE lack because the filters they use are only rated at 650 CFMs. The AEM unit has a filter rated at 1350 CFMs


show me the numbers. i'd really like to see the MAP. the biggest problem that i suspect isn't the filter. i had a 9" cone which was even higher rated and the overall flow of the system wasn't optimum. the 90* bend before the TB is an impediment no matter what you put on the end. air, like everything else, doesn't like to turn a corner


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

TeHKasperek said:


> Ok so now that I have my cai should I get shortie or long headers? whats the difference?


Shorties work better when combined with aftermarket mid-pipes. Longtubes is the best way to go they have alittle more potential than shorties, due to them being able to scavnege the exhaust and larger pipe diameter/length. There is nothing bad about shorties people make them seem that they are they are not.


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

Ninjured said:


> I'm not sure if you're trolling or just unhappy with your GTO. I don't want a faster car. I want a faster *GTO*. It's about the entire package. If I wanted a vette, I would have bought a vette. .....


I love my GTO.... It's a great car, that has some extremely appealing qualities. but in the end, if you're looking for a faster car.... get a faster car. I'm just an anti-power-mod person. I didn't say that this car couldn't use improvement, just that I hear/read soooooooo many threads and stories about power, and meet sooooo many tuners at track meets.... and what happens.... they get their but kicked by cars that are at another level. There's a reason ALMS has GT1, GT2 classes, and several other sanctioning bodies have differentiated between cars and grouped them by class.

What I find even more frustrating and infuriating, is that 99% of the people I meet "THINK" they can drive, when reality is quite different. I can't drive.... I'm decent at club level and HPDE 4, Solo II and Red/Black groups on track days..... but I know I'm not even getting close to what this car is capable of.... and unless you have extensive track time under your belt.... I doubt that you are.

I'm not talking about the drag racers that's plateaued and needs more power, or the track junky that's riding his bump-stops (as I am). I'm talking about Joe-Shmoe spending hard earned cash on upgrades.... that may not even make him faster. We all agree that a driver is the most important element in any car. Improve the driver first... that's all I'm saying. Spend your money on tires, brakes and driving lessons. It'll be much more enjoyable, memorable, and make YOU faster in the long run than any set of headers, exhaust or other performance upgrade.

I've gone an traveled on both roads. I've spent more than $40K on a 02 WRX that blasted to 60 in a tick over 4 seconds, obliterated the 1320 in 12 flat.... with a capable driver. I really came to hate that car, because I had spent so much money, gotten marginal results and was still getting beat by upscale cars. I've spent $500 on the goat for brakes, lines, pads.... and love it, as I'm out at the track "DRIVING" it 6-8 times a year. I love my GTO... but wouldn't spend a dime trying to make more power, until I'm capable of taking full advantage of it.... because until then, your "BEST/CHEAPEST MOD" is the driver. Besides, there's nothing better than raping some schmuck on track day, and being able to answer that "It's STOCK"... when they come asking after the session's over.

Again.... I just answered the question the thread asked. If you don't agree with my answer.... you don't have to follow it, or take any advice I offer.


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

gm4life said:


> Shorties work better when combined with aftermarket mid-pipes. Longtubes is the best way to go they have alittle more potential than shorties, due to them being able to scavnege the exhaust and larger pipe diameter/length. There is nothing bad about shorties people make them seem that they are they are not.


Excellent point. I looked at the two as well.... we're talking marginal differences that are only realized at the extreme end of the performance envelope. For a daily driver, mild cam and other work.... it really won't make noticeable differece.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

i wouldn't bother if shorties were the only thing you're going to do. the stock manifold for that matter isn't so bad. ya shorties will get some gain (not as much as they claim) but you'll get almost twice as much with LTs. if you're going to go that far you'll probably keep on modding and the potential of LTs gets better as the engine breathing gets better


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

exwrx said:


> Excellent point. I looked at the two as well.... we're talking marginal differences that are only realized at the extreme end of the performance envelope. For a daily driver, mild cam and other work.... it really won't make noticeable differece.


:agree Exactly!!


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> i wouldn't bother if shorties were the only thing you're going to do. the stock manifold for that matter isn't so bad. ya shorties will get some gain (not as much as they claim) but you'll get almost twice as much with LTs. if you're going to go that far you'll probably keep on modding and the potential of LTs gets better as the engine breathing gets better


You're the guy I'm talking about.... lol.... I agree that in your circumstances, every little edge will help with trying to sneak the most out of this car without it realizing and breaking down. When I used to frequent the 1/4, I completely understand the need for even a few HP, as it's do-or-die, and wins are sometimes attributed to 1000's of a second.

So.... you're absolutely right about the LT's making a bit more power than the ST's. What GM4LIFE and I are talking about is that given only a moderate amount of work, and considering that this guy's on a budget... money is better spent elsewhere. i.e..... get shorties and a tune, rather than just LT's and no tune... or a bad tune. You're right about the OEM exhaust system being quite good, with the only major restriction being the baffle behind the catalytic converter, the rear exhaust, and the slight bend in the pipe, just above the rear axle..... meaning therer's more power and speed to be had in other places.


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## exwrx (Apr 5, 2007)

What seems to be happening is that GM4LIFE, SVEDE and I saying the same thing, for different reasons... lol. We all seem to agree that headers are not the way to make more power easily.

I say.... just going out on a limb, you get yourself a wet-shot kit for about $600-$750, and call it a day. If someone can find another mod that net's 100HP for that price, please enlighten us. lol.

I have to admit here, that even I'm really tempted to buy one of those, especially considering that the NOS brand one comes with a MAF style adapter plate, and the only thing you see is 2-lines running under the intake.... sneaky-sneaky.. lol.


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

TeHKasperek said:


> I know it's a hard to answer question, I have a 2005 pontiac gto auto trans I bought a cold air intake but I was told I wasted my money on getting it. Before I waste anymore money which headers should I get? I'm also not super rich so price happens to kinda be an issue. I'm also looking to get a upgraded exhaust and a chip programmer.


We are forgetting the real question here. Arguing over which one is a better choice for headers can go on forever. We look at it from a drag racing point of view, and then once again in a street racers point of view. Obviously reading his first post, money *IS* an issue here. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, but TeHKasperek is probably going back and forth pulling his hair out because we couldn't come up with a solid answer. Can we all agree... that yes LT's will give you a bit more power, but they are more costly than the Shorties, and we want him to get the best bang-for-the-buck. Summing everything up for him, since money is an issue here, he should go with Shorties and a nice tune, and hold out on the LT's until he really needs that extra power.... if he decides to go that far.


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## alsgto04 (Nov 21, 2007)

Aramz06 said:


> We are forgetting the real question here. Arguing over which one is a better choice for headers can go on forever. We look at it from a drag racing point of view, and then once again in a street racers point of view. Obviously reading his first post, money *IS* an issue here. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, but TeHKasperek is probably going back and forth pulling his hair out because we couldn't come up with a solid answer. Can we all agree... that yes LT's will give you a bit more power, but they are more costly than the Shorties, and we want him to get the best bang-for-the-buck. Summing everything up for him, since money is an issue here, he should go with Shorties and a nice tune, and hold out on the LT's until he really needs that extra power.... if he decides to go that far.




:agree You made it sound perfect buddy. :cheers


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> show me the numbers. i'd really like to see the MAP. the biggest problem that i suspect isn't the filter. i had a 9" cone which was even higher rated and the overall flow of the system wasn't optimum. the 90* bend before the TB is an impediment no matter what you put on the end. air, like everything else, doesn't like to turn a corner


The CFM ratings came right from their tech departments . When I was doing reasearch on different CAI's for my GTO I wanted to get one with the highest CFM rating on the filters to ensure the least amount of filter restriction. I emailed the Tech Departments of K&N, AEM, Volant and Lingenfelter. AEM & K&N got back to me right away. The K&N Cone filter is rated at 650 CFMs while their drop in was 600 CFMs. AEM Cone dry filter was 1350 CFMs. Volant and Lingenfelter got back to me soon after saying their filters were tested and rated the same as the K&N which should be high enough for any N/A motor. All in All , anyone of the CAI units on the market have enough of a flow rate to satisfy our needs and give us increased HP over a stocker with Stock Filter but not more if any over a drop in filter

P.S The K&N rating was with the filter dry , not oiled.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

LOWET said:


> The CFM ratings came right from their tech departments . When I was doing reasearch on different CAI's for my GTO I wanted to get one with the highest CFM rating on the filters to ensure the least amount of filter restriction. I emailed the Tech Departments of K&N, AEM, Volant and Lingenfelter. AEM & K&N got back to me right away. The K&N Cone filter is rated at 650 CFMs while their drop in was 600 CFMs. AEM Cone dry filter was 1350 CFMs. Volant and Lingenfelter got back to me soon after saying their filters were tested and rated the same as the K&N which should be high enough for any N/A motor. All in All , anyone of the CAI units on the market have enough of a flow rate to satisfy our needs and give us increased HP over a stocker with Stock Filter but not more if any over a drop in filter
> 
> P.S The K&N rating was with the filter dry , not oiled.


MAP. the question is MAP. the reason you'd want a high flow rate is because of MAP. the flow rating of the filter is immaterial once you exceed the flow requirements of the engine. it doesn't matter if you have an open end on the tube if the MAP isn't good. that's the figure that none of the manufacturers supply and along with IATs are the most important.


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## TeHKasperek (Nov 23, 2008)

Ok cool thanks guys, I like to hear that I didn't waste my money on a cold air intake. I'll also go ahead and wait a little longer and buy those long tube headers i'm not sure which brand and i'll also go ahead and get a better exaust put on and then a tune. I think this would probably cost me around 3k which is do able within a year...Unless I take a deployment to somewhere heh.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

TeHKasperek said:


> Ok cool thanks guys, I like to hear that I didn't waste my money on a cold air intake. I'll also go ahead and wait a little longer and buy those long tube headers i'm not sure which brand and i'll also go ahead and get a better exaust put on and then a tune. I think this would probably cost me around 3k which is do able within a year...Unless I take a deployment to somewhere heh.


You are welcome


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