# Matching numbers



## 65gto (Aug 2, 2013)

I just spoke with the guy that owned my 65 and did the frame off resto about 5 years ago. He tells me he knows who has the original motor. Not sure what it would cost and I'm sure it would need a complete rebuild. Question is, would this be worth pursuing? Not sure how much value it would add.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Depends on the options your car originally came with. And what original options still remain intact. If it's an automatic 4bbl car, the #'s engine might add 3-5k to the value of the car. If it's a 4 speed tripower car, more like 10k added value. If it were me, I'd look into it if you can get the core for a reasonable price. Do you have the Protect-o-Plate to verify the Engine Unit Number for your car? PHS docs will only give you the engine code (WT, WS, YS, etc) but not the actual EUN that went into your car. My own '67 is all original #'s matching, but it's an automatic car. My '65 has a replacement engine. I've owned a lot of GTO's, and not one of the 4 speed cars I've owned had the original block still in it. Day Two owners blew them up!!


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## 65gto (Aug 2, 2013)

What's the Protect-o-Plate ? Per the PHS doc, the car was originally an automatic. Now a 4 speed.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Protect-o-Plate is the plastic card, like a credit card in appearance, issued to the owner. It was used to imprint the owners name and information on the work orders. Like they used to run a credit card through a manual reader. This page talks about it a bit.

Pontiac Ident O Plate Program Front Shot Photo 12

A google search can get you a lot more information on them. Dan

PS. if it were me, I'd go for the old block and try to rebuild the history and uniqueness of your car.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

For your car, the Protect-o-plate is a metal tag, glued to the back cover of the service record manual that came with the car when new. It was able to be inked and used like an old fashioned credit card machine to print out the engine number and VIN number on documents as needed. If it came with the car, you are in luck. Usually, they are long gone.


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## Red1970GTO (Jun 25, 2011)

*Numbers*

:cool For the really radical "numbers guys (those who have/want a "show car," "showroom floor auto," "Investment Grade Car")" the engine alone may not add that much value to your car. That is because the whole numbers thing goes beyond the engine block; Heads have to match the block (date code plus casting numbers), the Distributor has to have the correct date code/part number, the alternator has to have... Do you see where this is going?

So, if your car is modified or lacks the rest of "the numbers parts," the numbers block may be a wash and add less value than what it costs. On the other hand, someday someone will buy your car (we are, after all, only their current guardians and they will, hopefully, outlive us) and the next owner may pursue the whole matching numbers racket (this from a guy who restored/built a numbers matching '69 Z/28 :willy.


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## JVM225 (Jun 18, 2007)

I would try to negotiate for the original motor. If you can get it for a good price you can always wrap it up and sit on it until you are ready to do something with it, or sell the car.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

:agree with this^. But don't let the seller swindle you for big bucks because he knows you are wanting the matching numbers at any cost. You stated your car has already had a trans swap so to me having the matching #'d block only is a novelty and adds less value than the price to rebuild it i.e.; if you pay $1000 for the block/heads or complete motor and need to spend $4000+ to rebuild it and put it in the car and it adds $3-5K in value then maybe not worth it IMO. If your current power plant needs a rebuild then maybe spend the extra bucks on the "original" engine.

Also do you know why it was removed? If it is damaged, i.e.; cracked block, scarred cylinders, munched crank the price could escalate. If you don't know the history of your 50 year old block and crank it would probably be prudent to have it magnafluxed for cracks and sonic checked if over bored.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

The first, and the key question to ask yourself, is why would it matter to YOU?

Generally speaking, all original cars are worth more for resale than modified cars. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule. None of that matters at all though if you plan to keep the car and not sell it. If that's the case, then instead spend the money on whatever makes the car in to what YOU want and forget about what anyone else might think. They don't get a vote. :cheers

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I'll add to that (here we go again): I've had my '65 GTO since 1982. I have been driving it regularly since then. It's never been 'apart'. That said, I bought it with a 428 under the hood. The original WS block was history, blown up at the dragstrip in the '70's. It had a one-legger 3.23 rear end in it, too. Not original. The car _was_ an original tripower car, 4 speed, with all the goodies, but the matching engine and diff were long gone. I didn't care. I commuted in the car until I broke the 428, and installed the engine that's in there now: a '65 WT 389 from a friends GTO (car got parted out). So, correct size and year engine, but a T instead of an S on the front of the block. Been like that for decades. At the same time the engine went in, I installed a 3.55 Posi out of a '66 GTO I sold off. (the original ratio in my ride was a 3.55, since changed by me to 3.36) The fact that my car has the wrong prefix on the block code and a rear end dated one year newer than the car it's in doesn't bother me much. I paid little for the car, and I've been burning rubber in it since I was a kid. Do I wish it had all of its original parts? Of course. Does _not_ having all original parts make me sad? Not in the least. I'll let the _next_ custodian of this car worry about matching number water pumps and date coded hose clamps if he's to afraid to burn rubber and have fun. By then, I'll be floating in the cosmos, speed shifting in the sky.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

well said...:cheers


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## 65gto (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks for all the comments. The engine I have in it now is a fresh rebuild. I already assumed that the original wouldn't be in very good shape. My thinking was that if I can get it for a few hundred or less, it would be nice to just have it.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I agree with you on this though. If you can get it cheap I would and just stash it or rebuild it later at your leisure.


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