# Zinc additive during maiden start / cam break in



## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

So the guy at my work that recommended the machine shop that did my engine ran into an issue. He had a jeep 4 liter rebuilt and after less than a thousand miles he wiped out a cam lobe. He was pissed and called the machine shop. They told him that last year (and during the last several) they have been removing the zinc additive ZDDP from engine oils because it was damaging catalytic converters. Evidently the zinc is of paramount importance during cam break in. The guy was pissed at the machine shop for not telling him he needed an additive. :shutme

This affects me because I have ran my engine for 40 minutes or so and I did not have an additive in there. The guy used assembly lube just like I did and still wiped his cam. I decided this warranted a thread for future readers as I had never heard this. I am not going to tear my engine back down so I plan to add the zinc, change my oil and cut apart the filter to see if there are any (more than normal for break in) metal shavings. I will check again down the road a couple hundred miles... 

Any input? experience? thoughts?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

This is an old topic that has been addressed here and on other forums many times. Pretty much all of us regulars here run a ZDDP additive or Diesel-spec oils, or, now that Rotella and Delo have less ZDDP, both. The ZDDP went away in conventional motor oils around 6-8 years ago. I recommend that you run Brad Penn oil in 10/30 or any oil you like in 10/30 if you add ZDDP PLUS or one of the available additives (GM EOS, etc.) I have been running Rotella in 15/40 for years, but will probably change to Brad Penn to get the right viscosity (10/30). I have also run Valvoline 10/30 with an addiitve (EOS). Whatever the case, you need to add ZDDP to todays oils if you run a stock or flat tappet cam.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Definitely advised for any flat tappet cam, especially a healthy one with heavier than stock springs. Not so much of an issue with a roller...

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I think it's a non-issue with roller cams. The only other thing I've read is that the ZDDP also protects wrist pins or any other place where there is high load. So, a roller motor would possibly gain a little benefit, but not camshaft- wise. If I had a roller motor, I would probably just run straight Rotella or Delo and no additives.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Do you guys think I will have an issue since I have already done 40 minutes of 2000ish rpm time? Cam break-in is already done... Also I plan on switching to synthetic after a few thousand miles, does it still need zinc?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I think you will be ok since you did have assembly lube (which has zinc in it) and you ran it unloaded at 2000 rpm...you didn't run it a 3000+ rpm down the road. Dump the oil after the cam break in (now) and add whatever mineral based you choose with ZDDP added as well, and change that out at 500 to 1000 miles. You can run synthetic after the rings seat...around 1 to 2 thousand miles, to be safe. You WILL have to add the Zinc additive to synthetic oil, as it does not have sufficient quantities, either. The law banning ZDDP applies to pretty much all the synthetic and mineral based stuff these days, with the exception of Brad Penn and some of the Diesel Spec oils. I personally like diesel spec Rotella or Delo anyway, based on what I've seen over the years....minimal wear at teardown. These oils are used in rigs that get over 500,000 miles between overhauls, under punishing conditions, so this is good stuff.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I would run Diesel oil with a ZDDP additive. Some say to run break in lube with the oil change for the ZDDP, so you are safe so far. I wouldn't bother with synthetic oil, as you will be doing 3000 mile oil changes or twice a year with less miles, as your car probably wont' be a neglected DD. This has been addressed and always the same answer, need ZDDP. Rollers don't need ZDDP at all, wristpins maybe, don't know. I've heard there are chinese lifters that just don't make it through break in, sorry for your buddy's problems.


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## JustAl (Mar 20, 2010)

Look into Joe Gibbs "Hot Rod Oil" or Comp Cams break-in oil, both claim to have the necessary additive package to protect flat trappet cam/lifters. Both are widley available.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

If you can find it, use GMs EOS. I find time and time again that GM engineers were pretty smart and they were using EOS 40+ years ago.


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

Do you have to run oil with zinc all the time? or just for new engine break ins? My dad's had a few issues with his sbc's lately cause of this too. Had one rebuilt and it sat for a lil while. when he got it in and going the cam wore out the lobes just like the OP's buddy. 

I've been running regular oil in my Lemans as well and no problems so far. Curious cause I wasnt sure.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes, you need zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) all the time. A lot of older engines are failing because of the reformulated oils. Use Rotella or Delo with an additive if you want to be safe and cheap. Brad Penn already has the stuff in it.


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

I am planning on using Valvoline VR1 oil, do you know if that has enough ZDDP in it to be safe? Right now it still has the break in oil in it, haven't had the weather to do the 300 miles to change it yet.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

No, my research indicates that the Valvoline VR 1 does _not_ have the zddp. The Valvoline VR 1 "not for street use" oil does, but it's not available over the counter, and it's not formulated for day to day driving. If you add a ZDDP additive, you can use any oil you want, though.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> No, my research indicates that the Valvoline VR 1 does _not_ have the zddp. The Valvoline VR 1 "not for street use" oil does, but it's not available over the counter, and it's not formulated for day to day driving. If you add a ZDDP additive, you can use any oil you want, though.


:agree The "not for street use" statement is meant to be taken seriously too. The reason is, that oil has little or no detergent package in it. Unless you want to change it every 300 - 500 miles, don't run it on the street.

Bear


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

aaarrrrggghhh, I hate this oil topic crap, gives me a headache whenever I research it on the internet, 50,000 opionions and 50,000 different conclusions. I have the VR1 racing oil, not the VR1 racing oil not for street use, according to Valvoline VR1 racing oil has 1200 ppm ZDDP and that it is good for flat tappet engines. Now my head hurts, do I need to buy a ZDDP additive for this oil so I don't have the throw away $40 worth of oil? A lot of people are using this oil in their muscle cars.


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> Yes, you need zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) all the time. A lot of older engines are failing because of the reformulated oils. Use Rotella or Delo with an additive if you want to be safe and cheap. Brad Penn already has the stuff in it.


That sucks. I've been using regular oil.  Why does stuff gotta change?? Grr. 

What additive to be exact? and who has it? parts stores?


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Got mine at the machine shop. Comp Cams break in additive, 10 bucks


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## Hot_Rod (Feb 10, 2011)

So its a break in additive you have to add to your oil to avoid issues? Think I'd rather buy oil with it already in it. "brad penn" doesnt need to have it added right?


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

seems racing oils not meant for street use have the ZDDP or you can use any oil with an additive


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## RustWrangler (Sep 15, 2011)

Edelbrock makes an additive to for those that were looking $13.95 at summit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1074/


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Again, the problem with racing oils is that they don't have the additive package that is needed for street use. They are formulated for severe use for a short length of service, not for fighting sludge, corrosion, dilution, thermal breakdown, etc,-- all things that matter on the street. I use Rotella with MOA by BG added, currently. Been running Rotella since about 2004, when the last of the ZDDP was pretty much removed from oils. But, even Rotella has been de-zinc'd a bunch due to tighter environmental standards. It's all about keeping worn out, oil pumping cars and trucks from fouling out the cat converters.


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## khinton (Jun 22, 2008)

I too have spent hours researching this topic as a couple of years ago I rebuilt the motor on my 68 GTO---after much research I found that the best options are either Brad Penn; comes in straight weights like straight 30 weight or 10w30 and 20w50. or add zddplus to your oil. I have used Brad Penn with no problems, but only about 2,000 miles since the rebuild--got new cam and lifters also--Broke it in with Joe Gibbs assembly lube and their break in oil. Ran it for apx. 20 minutes at about 2,000 average rpm then dumped the oil. Refilled With Brad Penn, using it since--no problems so far. Im thinking of going to a good 30W30 dyno, like Gastrol GTX and add the zddplus--thinking I might get better detergents and the zinc as well. I see zddplus is in the Ames catolog.:cheers


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