# TH 400 Auto to Tremec TKX Manual - 67 GTO



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I almost didn't buy my 67 because of the auto, but since the car was mass produced, without any rare options, I don't see converting it to a 4 Speed as likely to hurt it's value.

I love Muncie M20's, most people don't. Everyone says that the Tremec conversions are the way to go, but the price deters them. I've been searching for months, and I'm not seeing the Muncie being any cheaper than the TKO stuff.

Where are these "cheap" Muncies that everyone is seeing?

Also... I own a welding shop and I've installed a few of the TKO conversions for Chevelle customers. They completely change the floor and then I wouldn't be able use the GTO console. That would be a deal breaker for me. I'd want the car to be like a 67 GTO, with console.

I've read the conversion threads and visited the sites... no one seems to mention the console and everyone says that the Muncies are much cheaper. I'm looking to get this ball rolling!

Of course, anyone looking for a new, numbers correct, TH400, console, and Hurst HH, or knows where to find a 4 speed parts car, let me know!


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I have been kicking around installing a T56. The car I checked out last spring had a T56 on the floor, no console. Not the best adaptation to me. I have seen pictures of some with consoles I dont know if they used the automatic console or fabricated one. My console has a wood grain top so if the stick comes up in centered. I can adjust the hole and put new wood grain on top. I have a vinyl covered console in my mercury. It is factory but not a good look to me.


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## Rocketman269v (Oct 5, 2020)

Some years ago, one of my customers brought me a Keisler 5-speed od to install in his factory 4-speed, console car. What an abortion! We would have had to swiss cheese the floor so bad that the console wouldn't have worked. I got him a Richmond 5-speed od and only had to do minor surgery to make it work. He had a used, junk console modified to clear the shifter and it looked great.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> I have been kicking around installing a T56. The car I checked out last spring had a T56 on the floor, no console. Not the best adaptation to me. I have seen pictures of some with consoles I dont know if they used the automatic console or fabricated one. My console has a wood grain top so if the stick comes up in centered. I can adjust the hole and put new wood grain on top. I have a vinyl covered console in my mercury. It is factory but not a good look to me.


I don't see how a factory auto console could work. they're so far off. Plus, I'm brave enough to chop a GTO floor, but not brave enough to chop an original Hurst console!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Rocketman269v said:


> Some years ago, one of my customers brought me a Keisler 5-speed od to install in his factory 4-speed, console car. What an abortion! We would have had to swiss cheese the floor so bad that the console wouldn't have worked. I got him a Richmond 5-speed od and only had to do minor surgery to make it work. He had a used, junk console modified to clear the shifter and it looked great.


Wow... So if it's that hard to adapt a 4 speed console to a 5 speed, you can imagine what it'll be like, converting a TH400 auto to one.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

My Chevelle customer, just sent me a pic of his completed car. It has the OEM TH400 console, with the Tremec 5 speed! I was shocked. The Tremec shifter comes straight up, so I guess I won't need a console? I can just use the auto console?


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

armyadarkness said:


> My Chevelle customer, just sent me a pic of his completed car. It has the OEM TH400 console, with the Tremec 5 speed! I was shocked. The Tremec shifter comes straight up, so I guess I won't need a console? I can just use the auto console?
> View attachment 140091


Wow. I'm impressed how good that actually looks. Does that work out so well because the shifter is not offset toward driver's side like it was with original four speed consoles? If that's the case, the original four speed console probably would not work for you anyhow.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> My Chevelle customer, just sent me a pic of his completed car. It has the OEM TH400 console, with the Tremec 5 speed! I was shocked. The Tremec shifter comes straight up, so I guess I won't need a console? I can just use the auto console?
> View attachment 140091


Ah, There is hope!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> Ah, There is hope!


Finding it hard to believe! Seems like our shifters are much further back than on that Chevelle. If it does work, then I'll be thrilled!


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Finding it hard to believe! Seems like our shifters are much further back than on that Chevelle. If it does work, then I'll be thrilled!


I think they are. The T56 I saw the shifter was even with the front of the buckets. That is in the neighborhood of where my automatic shifter is.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> I think they are. The T56 I saw the shifter was even with the front of the buckets. That is in the neighborhood of where my automatic shifter is.


Well, all... ALLLLLL of my initial research, stated that the Tremec conversion cost two times what the Muncie cost. That is not my experience at all. Everyone wants big money for the Muncies. As much as the Tremecs. 

So, if I have to spend the same amount, plus cut the floor anyway, then the Tremec is much cheaper. I'll save $800 - $1000 on the console and doghouse, plus I'll get over drive!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> Well, all... ALLLLLL of my initial research, stated that the Tremec conversion cost two times what the Muncie cost. That is not my experience at all. Everyone wants big money for the Muncies. As much as the Tremecs.
> 
> So, if I have to spend the same amount, plus cut the floor anyway, then the Tremec is much cheaper. I'll save $800 - $1000 on the console and doghouse, plus I'll get over drive!


The Tremec is not inexpensive when you have to consider all the parts needed. There are options on the shifter/shifter locations if you do a web search. This is another additional cost. You will need to shorten, or buy, your driveshaft - another additional cost. You may want to purchase another gear set DEPENDING on the final OD ratio and tire height. I got the TKO-600 .64 as it seemed sensless to only drop the OD .82. So you want to calculate for the OD, ie RPM/MPH speed at 70 MPH (which is the speed I chose). Then you have to decide your tire height as that affects RPM/Road speed. That all said, I went with 3.89 gearing in my 9" which should put me about 2,000 RPM's @ 70 MPH with a 30" tall tire.

Using an online calculator, it appears with 3.55's, .64 OD, 27" tire height that you should see 2,000 RPM's @ 70 MPH. So you can see how your set-up is basically the same RPM/MPH but our gearing and tire sizes are different. Just plug in the numbers into the boxes and they will pull up.









Spicer Transmission Ratio RPM Calculator


Use the Spicer Transmission Ratio RPM Calculator to determine your engine’s RPM based on the transmission gear ratio, tire height, MPH, and ring and pinion gear ratio.




spicerparts.com





With the TKO, you will most likely have to cut/modify the trans tunnel. I believe you can use your trans crossmember, but will have to move it back and possibly drill new holes in the frame - IF you don't buy an aftermarket crossmember.

You will also want to ensure that the trans is aligned with the flywheel by using a dial indicator or alignment tool from Browell.









How To Align Bellhousing - High Performance Pontiac Magazine


Read about how to align your bellhousing on your Pontiac's manual transmission. Check it out only at www.highperformancepontiac.com, the official website for High Performance Pontiac Magazine!




www.hotrod.com





The TKO is not designed to shift at high RPM's due to the way the synchro's work. I was told you might get 6,000 RPM's, but above that the trans won't shift until the RPM's come back down. You can upgrade to cure this and these upgrades are available from the aftermarket suppliers who sell them, but, more money. For me, not an issue as I don't see my 455 spinning high enough RPM's to be a problem.

HOWEVER, there is a new Tremec design which has just come out that eliminates a few issues. You can read more about it here:









TREMEC TKX 5-Speed TCET17805 GM 26-Spline .68 5th Gear - American Powertrain


https://youtu.be/RKM2iM1qvhc We have over 800 Units In Stock Now! Orders are going fast!Read More



americanpowertrain.com





So in my opinion, a swap to the 5-speed OD may run you $4,500 - $5,500 dollars for a complete conversion to include flywheel, bell, clutch set-up, pedals & linkages, and driveline mods to fit.

A 2,500 "tight" stall converter may cost $350.00 and your labor.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

I dont know about ARMY but that is a number I can live with.. I have spent more having a trans rebuilt for my truck (Well they ended up rebuilding the transfer case and rearend too. And only to got two more years out of it. For my car I have TH400 and a two speed that both have issues. So I am sinking good money no matter what. 
I will buy a beater truck and drive it for 10 years and sink the money of a new truck on my 67. Money well spent in my book.
Why a 6spd? Have you ever been to Kansas? The faster its in your rear view the better. Driving across the plains is mind numbing.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> The Tremec is not inexpensive when you have to consider all the parts needed. There are options on the shifter/shifter locations if you do a web search. This is another additional cost. You will need to shorten, or buy, your driveshaft - another additional cost. You may want to purchase another gear set DEPENDING on the final OD ratio and tire height. I got the TKO-600 .64 as it seemed sensless to only drop the OD .82. So you want to calculate for the OD, ie RPM/MPH speed at 70 MPH (which is the speed I chose). Then you have to decide your tire height as that affects RPM/Road speed. That all said, I went with 3.89 gearing in my 9" which should put me about 2,000 RPM's @ 70 MPH with a 30" tall tire.
> 
> Using an online calculator, it appears with 3.55's, .64 OD, 27" tire height that you should see 2,000 RPM's @ 70 MPH. So you can see how your set-up is basically the same RPM/MPH but our gearing and tire sizes are different. Just plug in the numbers into the boxes and they will pull up.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jim. I don't know if you read, but I already installed a couple of TH400/ TKO conversions, for Chevelle owners at my shop. That's how I found out about them. However, I still wanted a Muncie, so I started pricing it all out. I can barely find a rebuilt Muncie, for anything less than $2k, plus clutch, bell housing, Z bar, doghouse, drive shaft, and 4 speed 67 console, I still see it coming up at over $4k. I'd need most of the same parts, regardless of the trans, and it seems like the "Swap" companies have all inclusive packages, which have come way down in price.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm finding the pricing to be a real close tie. The exception would be that if I could ever find a 4 speed, A-body, donor car, or a Muncie which was not being sold on ebay by Billy the Kid, then I could easily save as much as $2k with the Muncie.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> I dont know about ARMY but that is a number I can live with.. I have spent more having a trans rebuilt for my truck (Well they ended up rebuilding the transfer case and rearend too. And only to got two more years out of it. For my car I have TH400 and a two speed that both have issues. So I am sinking good money no matter what.
> I will buy a beater truck and drive it for 10 years and sink the money of a new truck on my 67. Money well spent in my book.
> Why a 6spd? Have you ever been to Kansas? The faster its in your rear view the better. Driving across the plains is mind numbing.


My cousins just bought 1000 acres in Kansas, for $500. I thought they got a deal, but maybe not!


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> My cousins just bought 1000 acres in Kansas, for $500. I thought they got a deal, but maybe not!


I have been working in a cave in Missouri for 15 years and Kansas is a shock to my system when you drive through and can see forever in every direction. Its like being out in the ocean. Can't really sneak up on any one out there. There are a few creeks that run through it pretty washed out deep enough to hide horse riders. Thats what Jessy James used to back in the day


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> Thanks Jim. I don't know if you read, but I already installed a couple of TH400/ TKO conversions, for Chevelle owners at my shop. That's how I found out about them. However, I still wanted a Muncie, so I started pricing it all out. I can barely find a rebuilt Muncie, for anything less than $2k, plus clutch, bell housing, Z bar, doghouse, drive shaft, and 4 speed 67 console, I still see it coming up at over $4k. I'd need most of the same parts, regardless of the trans, and it seems like the "Swap" companies have all inclusive packages, which have come way down in price.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm finding the pricing to be a real close tie. The exception would be that if I could ever find a 4 speed, A-body, donor car, or a Muncie which was not being sold on ebay by Billy the Kid, then I could easily save as much as $2k with the Muncie.


I am seeing rebuilt for $1,350 with warranty. So much less than 2K.









MUNCIE M20 4 SPEED 2.52 WIDE RATIO 10 X 27 Main Case 010 REBUILT 1 Yr Warranty | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MUNCIE M20 4 SPEED 2.52 WIDE RATIO 10 X 27 Main Case 010 REBUILT 1 Yr Warranty at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I am seeing rebuilt for $1,350 with warranty. So much less than 2K.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That does look like a competitive price, and the seller seems legit, too. Most of the threads that I initially saw, were pricing Tremecs higher and Muncies lower... under $800. Those days seem over. I wonder what it would cost to ship a Muncie from the west to the east?

Hard to believe that there's not an A body donor out there in a junk yard somewhere... but I guess I'm not the first guy to have this idea.


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

I have been reading up on the TKX manual trans and they claim no modifications are need to the tunnel and have 3 different shift positions and will bolt up to a GM bell housing without an adapter. I am looking to turn my 69 Nova into a five speed. A little off topic but I am also looking at Gear Vendor bolt on overdrive unit that lets you split all your gears or just run it as an overdrive only, but that unit is 3k on its own.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

deanhickey said:


> I have been reading up on the TKX manual trans and they claim no modifications are need to the tunnel and have 3 different shift positions and will bolt up to a GM bell housing without an adapter. I am looking to turn my 69 Nova into a five speed. A little off topic but I am also looking at Gear Vendor bolt on overdrive unit that lets you split all your gears or just run it as an overdrive only, but that unit is 3k on its own.


I have no problem spending money for value. I just don't like automatic cars. I don't mind welding in a new tunnel... Not that I'm in a hurry to do it, but I'm a welder and I've already done two Chevelles, so it's just a day of work, and 90% of that is paint. 

The consistent dilemma here is the console. I gotta have a walnut console in the 67. It's just too iconic to ditch. A muncie cannot use the Hurst auto console, because the shifter is offset. The TKO is centered, so "it has been said" that the Hurst auto console will work with it. If so, then TKO it is! Honestly, I do digital templating, so making a new console for the Muncie would also be easy, but I'm finding the TKO to be the same price as the Muncies, now.

Pro's of the TKO are that companies sell it as an all inclusive package, and you get over drive. So even if it's another $1000 it's just worth it. Plus, my rebuilt TH400 would likely bring a nice penny


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

the TKO is good but the new TKX is more of a" direct fit"/ replacement for the muncie, it is a trimmer unit. I a not sure if the driveshaft needs to shortened or not but I imagine that it would need some modification and the five speed would be a blessing on the highway. If I do pull the trigger on a new gear box I will probably sell the muncie, unless I get a new project to put it in.😂😂


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## deanhickey (Apr 6, 2015)

tarmac does make an offset shifter not sure how much it move the shifter over but ti might be with a look.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I decided to update this thread, since I'm going ahead with the conversion.

Here were my considerations:

Overdrive didn't matter to me. Nice to have, but I don't drive a 67 GTO for economics. So, in this regard, the Tremec TKX is no better than a Muncie to me.
Console preservation. Although I lean in the Muncie direction, it requires a "one year", rare 4 speed console. The TKX does not, because the shifter exits through the automatic shifter opening.
Price. It got very deceptive here:
On average, most of the Muncies are all going for $2500-$3000, and very few have the speedometer on the right side. So... Even if you find a great Muncie for $1500, you still need the rare 4 speed console and doghouse... This easily brings the cost into Tremecville.
Linkage: A hydraulic Mcloud setup, with a slave, stainless steel braided lines, heim joints, and a hydraulic, self adjusting throwout bearing is $600. The old z bar set up is at least $350 and it requires frame welding.
Clutch and bellhousing costs are equal.
The new TKX shifts better and it requires no mods to the floor.

My out the door, shipped cost will be $5000. I could not assemble a Muncie package for less than $4000 (unless I went with used or an unverifiable rebuilt). When you figure in; no frame, doghouse, or console mods, and the added overdrive, I just can't resist.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I Finally have all of my parts together and I'll soon begin working. Going to see if I can edit the title to be more accurate. If not, I'll make a new thread.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Unless I missed it, none of the other TKX threads address using a manual transmission with an auto console, and since that's the single most critical aspect of the conversion for me, I'm reviving my old thread.

A few popular issues:

If you have an auto and you simply want a manual, and overdrive is NOT important, you may be considering a Muncie. After one year of searching I was not able to find any quality Muncie, for less than $2000. And most were significantly more! I don't consider buying a 50-year-old Muncie off ebay, from a stranger who rebuilt it, an option worth visiting, but if you're big on trust and are willing to potentially gamble with hundreds of $ shipping back and forth, go for it. Bottom line... 50-year-old Muncie 4 speed = $2500 from a reputable source VS. Brand new TKX with over drive for $2800.
A factory 4 Speed GTO has an offset shifter, forward. A factory TH400 car has the shifter centered and back. If your car is original, you have a problem. 67 was a one year console and the manual version is not reproduced. Even if you do find a used one, you then have to buy a dog house, weld it to the floor, and then buy new carpet. So, since my car is all original and since I was able to use a factory auto console in the SS Chevelle that I converted, I'm going to make my auto console work.
Concerns:

Will I need to mod my driveshaft? There's less than a 1" difference in trans length between the TH400 and TKX.
Can I buy offset dowels, in advance, in case I need them?
Note's:

Currently, wide ratio TKX's are tough to get.
Currently, bell housings are only affordable at one place... So, get one while you can, or pay $800 for a Lakewood or Quick Time.
I'm going into this, assuming that I'll need to use offset dowels and mod my driveshaft.
I'm holding the TKX shifter to the back and hopefully it will come up through the hole where the factory Hurst His and Hers, currently resides. If not, I'll weld up my own offset. I'll starting out with an 8" rise Hurst lever, with a 3" back pull.
Using a Ram Clutch and Flywheel and a Mc Cloud hydraulic clutch and throw-out bearing.
I bought new auto carpet and I plan on stripping and painting the floor at the same time.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I didn't use Silver Sport, because they (repeatedly) werent easily grasping the concept of needing to use my original console. They kept trying to sell me a dog house, and they had no idea that it would require new carpet and a new console... AND, I was not able to convince them.

Also, they seemed insistent on my using a z bar setup... which may save some coin, but requires welding to the frame in an inaccessible area.

Finally, they got a little attitude with me, so....


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I didn't use Modern Driveline because they also were very confused about making this work for an auto console...


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

It should also be noted that I left messages for both Silver Sport and MDL, and as of now, neither have returned my phone calls. So... I typically dont drop $5000 on a company, who sucks at answering the phone.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

If any of you have a 66 or 67 Manual, and can measure how far back from the front of the console, the shifter is, in NEUTRAL, this will be a big help.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

So will a manual console not fit or too expensive, wouldn't you want one instead of modifying yours? ...I would think it would look nicer but I haven't seen one converted either. An inch difference is big on the drive shaft I think, so if you have to have one made I would get a nice chrome molly one made up with forged yokes so you have piece of mind that it isn't a weak link. I know everyone has their opinion but my trans guy only uses McLeod clutches, I have the super street pro. Lastly I don't have experience with hydraulic clutches but what are the advantages, only thing I know is Solar68 is having some issues with his but maybe it just needs adjusting and my friend with a 66 Fairlane had his blow out with hardly any miles on it. Just wondering out loud


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

You won't know if the console will work until you get the trans/shifter installed. Maybe check with your buddy, or he might be able to use your car for a prototype shifter extension that he can then market - and you get a free one. 









HMS TKX 2" Offset Shifter - 9 O'clock Position – Hanlon Motorsports


Hanlon Motorsports offers our own 2 inch offset shifter for the Tremec TKX 5 speed manual transmissions - 9 O'clock position.




www.hanlonmotorsports.com


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> So will a manual console not fit or too expensive, wouldn't you want one instead of modifying yours?


A manual console will fit if I weld in a dog house, change my carpet, and find a magic lamp, get three wishes, and use one to find a one year, 67 GTO manual console. I wont need to modify mine.



Baaad65 said:


> I would think it would look nicer but I haven't seen one converted either


It'll look like a four speed. Personally, I like the way the Hurst His and Hers looks.



Baaad65 said:


> I know everyone has their opinion but my trans guy only uses McLeod clutches


Personally, I like OEM LUK and have always used them. Bob Hanlon is the one who recommends RAM. I think they're all fine.



Baaad65 said:


> Lastly I don't have experience with hydraulic clutches but what are the advantages, only thing I know is Solar68 is having some issues with his but maybe it just needs adjusting and my friend with a 66 Fairlane had his blow out with hardly any miles on it. Just wondering out loud


Advantages are never having to adjust, smoother and more consistent engagement, less pedal effort, not having to dismantle your car and weld a tab on the frame, fewer parts, more efficient, less to wear.

Disadvantages are cost.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> You won't know if the console will work until you get the trans/shifter installed. Maybe check with your buddy, or he might be able to use your car for a prototype shifter extension that he can then market - and you get a free one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I talked to Bob for about an hour yesterday. I have the distance from the block that the shifter will protrude on the TKX, now I just need a sunny day to get under the car and do some measuring. The His and Hers is definitely further back than the 4 speed, and flipping the TKX shifter will give me 3 more inches (TWSS). After that, Bob can make an offset if I need more, but I could also make my own.

Ironically, they vacation all summer long, one mile from my home, and I vacation all summer long, one mile from their shop.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Parts are coming in.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

@armyadarkness Do you think they would label them pluming supplies? We are putting in a addition so what's a few extra boxes


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)




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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> A manual console will fit if I weld in a dog house, change my carpet, and find a magic lamp, get three wishes, and use one to find a one year, 67 GTO manual console. I wont need to modify mine.
> 
> 
> It'll look like a four speed. Personally, I like the way the Hurst His and Hers looks.
> ...


Ya I guess the 4 speed console has a bump out where you would need a dog house I just can't picture taking the dual gate or regular shifter out and there being enough room for the stick to move around but I'm sure you'll figure it out and show us. I would clear coat the bellhousing just don't get paint in the hub where the tranny slides into, I made that mistake and thought the pilot bushing was wrong because the trans would not go in so I took the clutch back off and tried it, went in great then realized how tight the fit was so I sanded the paint off from inside the hub and what do you know it slid right in 🤪


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

If you go to the begining of this thread, you will see a Super Sport Chevelle, with an auto console, and a Tremec Six Speed.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

@PontiacJim 

What's your take on Ujoints?

The Tremec TKX comes with 1330's, and stock 67 GTO is 1310.

So, should I have the driveshaft shop put a 1330 end on my driveshaft, or just use a conversion joint? Any bene?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I converted my 12 bolt yoke to a 1350, for some reason it came with a 1330. Went 1350 on both ends but if you don't have big sticky tires the 1330's are probably ok I would think?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> @PontiacJim
> 
> What's your take on Ujoints?
> 
> ...



Like *Baaad65*, I am using the larger 1350 sized u-joints. My 9" rear uses the 1350 pinion yoke and then I got the 1350 trans yoke. I will have to have a driveshaft made up and it will be for the 1350 joints.

You should have the 1330 u-joints - the bigger size that Pontiac used. The smaller size, 1310, is the Chevy size.

You can go 1330, but my personal opinion, if you have to purchase a new driveshaft, is to go 1350. Get a 1350 trans yoke, driveshaft ends made for 1350 u-joints, then get a conversion u-joint that has the 1350/1330 caps so you can mate the driveshaft to the Pontiac rear.

Check this guide out from Currie. You will see the different types of u-joints and scroll down and see the conversion type u-joints.









Understanding U-Joints


Currie Enterprises is a premier manufacturer of high-performance direct replacement, and custom muscle car, truck, and Jeep frontend and rearend axle assemblies.




www.currieenterprises.com


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

TKX 3.27 and Ram Clutch is due here today!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Bell housing painted with that new paint Ive been raving about, by Motor Coater, Pontiac Metallic Blue. Sprayed through a $30, Home Depot gravity gun, thinned with acetone, and some Sherwin Williams hardner mixed in.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Ram Clutch Arrived! Not purple like it is in their advertisements.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

All of these parts, including the transmission, arrived two days after completing the order. Hanlon definitely doesn't mess around when it comes to shipping.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

And finally I can start measuring... Man, this sucker is much smaller than the TKO, or so it appears.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Ram Clutch Arrived! Not purple like it is in their advertisements.
> View attachment 151884


If everything goes right you won't see it again after it's installed 😉


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I shopped Modern Driveline, Silver Sport, American Powertrain, and Hanlon Motorsports. Hanlon Motorsports was the only one who included a cross member in their estimate. I was turned off by it because it was a $300 add-on which everyone else claimed I didn't need. But the crossmember arrived tonight and I assembled it on the bench. Now I am feeling like this was absolutely the way to go. This crossmember is fully adjustable so that I don't have to drill any new holes anywhere. So in the end it was an extra $300, but it's a better crossmember and I don't have to drill any holes so it's going to save me a lot of time and effort.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> I shopped Modern Driveline, Silver Sport, American Powertrain, and Hanlon Motorsports. Hanlon Motorsports was the only one who included a cross member in their estimate. I was turned off by it because it was a $350 add-on which everyone else claimed I didn't need. But the crossmember arrived tonight and I assembled it on the bench. Now I am feeling like this was absolutely the way to go. This crossmember is fully adjustable so that I don't have to drill any new holes anywhere. So in the end it was an extra $300 fifty bucks, but it's a better crossmember and I don't have to drill any holes so it's going to save me a lot of time and effort.


Wow it doesn't look that beefy compared to the other aftermarket crossmembers, can you buy just the member because I've thought of upgrading my stock one plus I had to fabricate new ends as they were rusted short. Not sure how critical a good crossmember is on the street but I do have a high torque motor.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Wow it doesn't look that beefy compared to the other aftermarket crossmembers, can you buy just the member because I've thought of upgrading my stock one plus I had to fabricate new ends as they were rusted short. Not sure how critical a good crossmember is on the street but I do have a high torque motor.


It's all relative. If everything is designed well, then there are no issues. It's when there's a weak link in the chain, that gets exploited. If you have 245/ 60/ 15 tires and a BOP with a manual, you're going to roast your tires, they're the weak link. Switch up to drag radials, and now your spider gears are gonna go... This is like your PCV! Design it all to work together and youll be happy!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Also, this cross member can easily be permanently welded together and reinforced, once I have it set right.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

New Flywheel is in.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Speedo cable, gears, wire harness, yoke, and all mounting hardware are in.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Trans bolted to bell and clutch to flywheel, so that I can start to do my math for the hydraulic throw out bearing.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

T/O bearing, temporarily set, so that measurements can be taken.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> T/O bearing, temporarily set, so that measurements can be taken.
> View attachment 151927


Do you get a different clutch fork boot to close up the hole where the hoses come out of the bell?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Not yet. Ill be making all custom covers for each area, when its done.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

@solar68 

Sooooooooooooo.................... I've been following/ creating TKX/ Conversion threads for a while, and I don't recall ever seeing this come up, BUT!

While researching the McLeod Hydraulic Clutch Conversion Kit, which appears to be the most popular, at least one website listed it as *"ONLY FITTING CHEVELLES"*. I was slightly worried.

I called McLeod and they weren't aware of this, so I was less worried... But then I read this...








Bowler hydraulic conversion


Has anyone else on the forum used a bowler hydraulic clutch conversion on a 67 gto. Bolts up very nice. Rod doesn’t line up with the pedal and the instructions show a different style of pedal. I already returned a McLeod setup that wasn’t even close to fitting and it comes with the same pedal...




www.gtoforum.com





So I called McLeod back and persisted. They informed me that you had to use a Chevelle Clutch Pedal Assembly AND Pedal Hangar Bracket, in order for their kit to work. They say that the pedals and geometry are not the same, between the GTO and Chevelle, and since OPGI lists a BOP Pedal Assembly, this makes sense. However, Im not seeing the "67 Chevelle Pedal Assembly Hangar" reproduced anywhere... so this makes using the McLeod a real Mother [email protected]

AND! It may explain your crappy pedal feel.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> @solar68
> 
> Sooooooooooooo.................... I've been following/ creating TKX/ Conversion threads for a while, and I don't recall ever seeing this come up, BUT!
> 
> ...


Are you sure you still want a hydraulic throw out, sounds like a PITA 🤪


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## solar68 (Nov 11, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> @solar68
> 
> Sooooooooooooo.................... I've been following/ creating TKX/ Conversion threads for a while, and I don't recall ever seeing this come up, BUT!
> 
> ...


That makes sense, the master cyl i got was adjustable too, so you can change the angle of attack to allow a better pivot ratio- that is key in getting the right pedal feel. That also allows you to get the master cyl in the right spot before adjusting it…


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

According to tracking, the McLeod, Hydraulic GTO Conversion will be here today. I have to compare it to the GTO pedals and will likely have to do some welding. Pics to follow.

Tomorrow we pull the TH400 and align the bell.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> According to tracking, the McLeod, Hydraulic GTO Conversion will be here today. I have to compare it to the GTO pedals and will likely have to do some welding. Pics to follow.
> 
> Tomorrow we pull the TH400 and align the bell.


I have all kinds of info on that and alignment pins that was sent with my tranny if you need....good luck


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I have all kinds of info on that and alignment pins that was sent with my tranny if you need....good luck


If you're suggesting that you drive to Jersey to share your wealth of knowledge and related parts, you have an open invitation. Bring coveralls


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> If you're suggesting that you drive to Jersey to share your wealth of knowledge and related parts, you have an open invitation. Bring coveralls
> View attachment 151968


It's tempting but super busy, was thinking more of texted photos


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> It's tempting but super busy, was thinking more of texted photos


Not a bad idea. I can probably stack up my pictures of your exhaust and breathers to use as jack stands. The trans will slide right out!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Not a bad idea. I can probably stack up my pictures of your exhaust and breathers to use as jack stands. The trans will slide right out!


That's a good idea but was thinking more of pictures of the cut sheets on bell housing alignment


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> According to tracking, the McLeod, Hydraulic GTO Conversion will be here today. I have to compare it to the GTO pedals and will likely have to do some welding. Pics to follow.
> 
> Tomorrow we pull the TH400 and align the bell.


I think this will be soooooo much better..........and more "manly" than some wussy hydraulic unit for old guys. 









Clutch Pedal Mod's -1968


Clutch Pedal & Rod Parts List 1 - Grade 5 7/16" x 5" Bolt 2 - INA SCE78 Shell Type Needle Bearing 7/16" ID x 5/8" OD x 1/2" W. 1 - Kit (4 pcs) Clutch/Brake Pedal Shaft Bushings 2 - 1/2"-20 Thread x 1/2" Dia. Hole Right Hand Heim Joint 1 - 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD x 1" L Steel Spacer 1 - Grade 8...




www.gtoforum.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> I think this will be soooooo much better..........and more "manly" than some wussy hydraulic unit for old guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it's to late, I just know this McLeod clutch is a hell of a lot easier than the one in my '67 back in '84, I think they called it a 3000lb clutch and once I was in a parade behind some cub scouts and thought some of them wouldn't make it to the end because my leg was getting really shaky 😬


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

If any additional help is needed,
The Special Parts Assistant is avail for consultations😆


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I think this will be soooooo much better..........and more "manly" than some wussy hydraulic unit for old guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah... this will be my 1st hydraulic clutch, in well over 40 hot rods. Not a fan of them. However, I have to:

Deal with the bell alignment.
Clutch setup
Shorten, tig, and rebalance my drive shaft
Wire wheel my floor and seat hardware, paint them, and install new carpet
Fab a shift lever to make the auto console work with the TKX
Work out the reverse lights and speedo cable.
Swap my pedals
And I have to do all of this outside, on my back, in one day... So I was leery about taking on the burden of welding a tab to the frame, to allow for a Z bar. That being said... now it looks like the hydraulic conversion is going to be even more fab than anything else.

Today I'll see how it all shakes out, but I already figure that I'll be going back to a zbar setup by the end of summer


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I think it's to late, I just know this McLeod clutch is a hell of a lot easier than the one in my '67 back in '84, I think they called it a 3000lb clutch and once I was in a parade behind some cub scouts and thought some of them wouldn't make it to the end because my leg was getting really shaky 😬


Well, I'm not a 12-year-old girl, so I don't mind the pedal effort, Nancy, but yes, you're right, it's too late to change now. I'm literally laughing out loud now.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As I suspected... All of the hydraulic clutch companies, listing "kits for the GTO", are not correct.


Don't know how "clutch experts" failed to realize/ discover that the Chevelle doesn't share the same pedal set as BOP.
Can't believe that people all over the web arent complaining about it.
Regardless, as I suspected, the McLeod Hydraulic Conversion was designed to work on the Chevelle, and it will not work on a GTO.

















Not only is the McLeod pedal different from the BOP pedal, but although it cost $300, it looks and feels like inferior Chinese garbage. However, the BOP pedal on the left was $100 and it looks bullet proof.

If I can make the geometry work, I'll weld a new tab to the BOP pedal. If not, I'll have to cut the McLeod pedal off below the pivot and weld it to the BOP hangar. Either way, when I'm done, I'll be taking Viagra so that I can give McLeod the hardest middle finger possible.

FYI, I called McLeaod, and they answered the phone. The guy was very nice, and when I inquired about this pedal mess... he told me that the designer was standing right next to him. Him put me on hold to get the guy, but instead of jumping on and explaining this directly to me, the engineer merely relayed half a message to me. Obviously, he couldnt be bothered. Modern business sucks!

When it's all done, I'll tell ya'll who you _should_ do business with.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Just found out that Paul Lee, the owner of McLeod, grew up in New Jersey, got his name, racing on the same track as me, and is/ was an attorney in NJ. When we do meet, it'll either shake out an informative, epic, and invaluable contribution to the GTO community, or it'll start a feud.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

The Chevelle pedal does look light weight, but you are not going to have the same tension between a throw-out bearing/pressure plate and hydraulic throw-out bearing/pressure plate. Can't you use the Chevelle pedal/pin and remove the BOP pivot bolt, separate the clutch pedal, and then fab a bushing/spacer between the clutch pedal and brake pedal to match the factory clutch pedal spacing?

The issue I also see may be the shape of the pushrod that goes from the pedal through the firewall? Never used one, so not familiar with any of the fab.

Keep a running list of ALL parts pricing, what had to be modified, and if you can do the modifications as a do-it-yourselfer or it would need to be sent out to a shop.

I think this would be a good base to the "true" costs & work needed to do the swap - all those hidden costs/labor that quickly add up making the swap a whole lot more than just the cost of the trans and an "installation kit."

Kinda like when I hear," the LS swap is cheaper than building a Pontiac engine." Lot more parts pieces have to be used to do the swap that run the costs up which soon put it over th price to keep/rebuild the Pontiac mill.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Yeah... this will be my 1st hydraulic clutch, in well over 40 hot rods. Not a fan of them. However, I have to:
> 
> Deal with the bell alignment.
> Clutch setup
> ...


Why does it have to be done in one day, do you need the car tomorrow for your paper route? Don't rush it, it's a big complicated job or you'll be sorry I speak from experience...now stop posting and get under that car 😉


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## michaelfind (Dec 14, 2018)

Baaad65 said:


> Why does it have to be done in one day, do you need the car tomorrow for your paper route? Don't rush it, it's a big complicated job or you'll be sorry I speak from experience...now stop posting and get under that car 😉


That reminds me of my teenage years working on my 67 lemans at midnight because i really did need it to get to work or school the next day. I’m thankful to be past those rushed hectic nights of midnight repairs.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Why does it have to be done in one day, do you need the car tomorrow for your paper route? Don't rush it, it's a big complicated job or you'll be sorry I speak from experience...now stop posting and get under that car 😉


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

michaelfind said:


> That reminds me of my teenage years working on my 67 lemans at midnight because i really did need it to get to work or school the next day. I’m thankful to be past those rushed hectic nights of midnight repairs.


Yep, in the snow late at night with drop cord light and installing the automatic in your 1956 Pontiac because you had to have the car. BUT, that was because we had no money but had the know-how, drive, determination, and a sense of PERSONAL OBLIGATION to be at school or work. Today, they just don't care if they make it to work or school and feel no personal obligation, or that lack of understanding from your parents who didn't have to say anything but look at you and you knew your were going to damn well get that car done if you had to stay up all night and leave out in the morning because they were certainly not carting your butt to school or work. They had a way of "shaming" you, and man, that was more uncomfortable than staying up all night and being exhausted. It was all about a parents requirement, rule, and expectation while living under their roof - and I even had to give up part of my small home & auto store part-time job paycheck for what they called "room rent". I made $2.35 an hour back in 1975 and mom got $10.00 of it!


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Why does it have to be done in one day, do you need the car tomorrow for your paper route? Don't rush it, it's a big complicated job or you'll be sorry I speak from experience...now stop posting and get under that car 😉


 Its been 25 years since i had a news paper and I am still waiting. I am supose to get the first month free.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Whatever you do... Don't follow this article! Oh boy... I'll get to it later... but if you follow it, it's riddled with errors. Just goes to show that Ram and On All Cylinders, are asleep at the wheel.









The Right Release: How to Set a Clutch Release Bearing for Optimum Performance - OnAllCylinders


Most of you guys with manual transmissions probably know if you have a cable-operated or hydraulic clutch release bearing. But how many with a hydraulic setup know what type you …




www.onallcylinders.com


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> Whatever you do... Don't follow this article! Oh boy... I'll get to it later... but if you follow it, it's riddled with errors. Just goes to show that Ram and On All Cylinders, are asleep at the wheel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Using a throw out bearing seems soooooo much easier. Install, install trans, have someone push the pedal in to release the clutch disc and then adjust the pushrod length at the clutch fork and you are done. As the clutch disc wears down and the pedal engagement height changes, simply repeat with about 10 minutes of your time and you are done.

"the diaphragm type clutch takes slightly less travel to release and requires about .030" to .040" total air gap when released. The coil spring type requires about .050" to .080" total air gap when released. Air gap is the clearance between the clutch disc, flywheel, and pressure plate with the clutch released. A total air gap of .050" will measure .025" between each side of the disc. If you get any gear scraping or hard shifting, the air gap may be too tight for your application and increasing the air gap may be needed."

Personally, never went under my car to gauge the air gap between the disc and flywheel. It either releases cleanly, or it didn't - then I adjusted it. I also adjusted the push rod to get the pedal release "feel" that I prefer, about 3/4 up from the floor, not right off the floor, so the air gap may have even been greater than the above specs - never checked and never had any issues. 

I will leave hydraulic throw out bearings to those cars that come from the factory with them.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Sounds like I adjust mine to the same point as PJ but with a different method. I usually dial mine in based on the amount of dead pedal at the top. I push the clutch pedal with my hand and adjust the grab point at ~1inch of pedal travel.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> The Chevelle pedal does look light weight, but you are not going to have the same tension between a throw-out bearing/pressure plate and hydraulic throw-out bearing/pressure plate. Can't you use the Chevelle pedal/pin and remove the BOP pivot bolt, separate the clutch pedal, and then fab a bushing/spacer between the clutch pedal and brake pedal to match the factory clutch pedal spacing?
> 
> The issue I also see may be the shape of the pushrod that goes from the pedal through the firewall? Never used one, so not familiar with any of the fab.
> 
> ...


The factory z-bar linkage rod has a bend in it, correct? Never saw one for a GTO. The McLeod setup uses a straight bar with a heim joint, and as you can see, the mounting bracket has a bend in it, to set the angle.

When all is done, I'll have a detailed write up of pricing and road blocks.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Why does it have to be done in one day, do you need the car tomorrow for your paper route? Don't rush it, it's a big complicated job or you'll be sorry I speak from experience...now stop posting and get under that car 😉


I have to do it outside and the car will be incapacitated. So the longer ist takes, the longer it sits outside iand in public view.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

michaelfind said:


> That reminds me of my teenage years working on my 67 lemans at midnight because i really did need it to get to work or school the next day. I’m thankful to be past those rushed hectic nights of midnight repairs.


Same here! Ive done many midnight jobs, so that I could get to work the next day!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Yep, in the snow late at night with drop cord light and installing the automatic in your 1956 Pontiac because you had to have the car. BUT, that was because we had no money but had the know-how, drive, determination, and a sense of PERSONAL OBLIGATION to be at school or work. Today, they just don't care if they make it to work or school and feel no personal obligation, or that lack of understanding from your parents who didn't have to say anything but look at you and you knew your were going to damn well get that car done if you had to stay up all night and leave out in the morning because they were certainly not carting your butt to school or work. They had a way of "shaming" you, and man, that was more uncomfortable than staying up all night and being exhausted. It was all about a parents requirement, rule, and expectation while living under their roof - and I even had to give up part of my small home & auto store part-time job paycheck for what they called "room rent". I made $2.35 an hour back in 1975 and mom got $10.00 of it!


As a youth, I was an irresponsible turd, but I would never be without my car! So yes, rear end swaps, engine swaps, trans swaps... often took place in the driveway at 2am. Never had two cents, but always had the motivation.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Whatever you do... Don't follow this article! Oh boy... I'll get to it later... but if you follow it, it's riddled with errors. Just goes to show that Ram and On All Cylinders, are asleep at the wheel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*I cannot stress the following enough;*

I spent an entire year researching this job on the internet and telephone. I read all of the articles, watched all of the videos, and spoke to Modern Driveline, Hanlon, Silver Sport, American Powertrain, and Summit... repeatedly and in depth. 

That, in conjunction with 35 years of working on these cars and being engineer, still didn't really prepare me for what I needed to do. But we all think different, so you shouldnt expect to share all of my issues. It's easy to over-think things. Which is why all good training has a study section and a practical section.

No matter how much you study clutches, linkage, and throw out bearings, if you never messed with them in real life or are out of practice, prepare to be stumped!


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I havent done a clutch since 1991, and that was on a Chevy engine swap, so it was off one, onto the other.

Even though I prefer to own manual transmissions, I never really understood how clutches work. As a result, although I'm qualified and capable of doing the math and work... I'm at a serious disadvantage for problem solving.

That being said, I wore out the newer throw out bearing on my Vette, by having it misadjusted, and then when I paid a shop to replace it, they didnt work out the pivot ball geometry right, so I had no throw with the new clutch.

*"AVAILABLE SPACE"*

This is the most critical area of the job for me, and this is how I explain it easy, for anyone who never had to deal with it. 

A is the depth measurement from the face of your throw out bearing (fully seated and retracted). 4 inches
B is the thickness of your flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate, bolted together (from where the flywheel mates to the crank. to the tip of the fingers).1 inch
C is the measurement from the face of the block to the face of the crank. 1 inch
You will see this come up a lot, but it reads a lot more confusing than it really is... so before trying to determine what you have, first understand what it is that you're doing. We need to figure out total available space and free space, in order to properly set up a throw out bearing. Do that with this simple example.

The *"total available space"* in your bellhousing is A, 4 inches.

You need to subtract the thickness of everything else going in there, in order to figure out how much *"free space"* you have. So subtract C and B from A. *You have 2 inches of free space*.

So if your throw out bearing has 2" of travel, you're all set.

*BUT

If your throw out bearing only has 1.5" of travel then you need a .5" spacer.

If your throw out bearing needs 2.25" of travel, then you need a block plate or transmission spacer.








*


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

A word about block plates and transmission spacers.

In all of the videos that you watch for bellhousing alignment, they talk about various adapters and plates. Let me save you some time... first, there is no BOP block plate, as far as Butler and Summit are concerned, so if you need one, good luck... However, lets first discuss why you might.

As I mentioned in my previous post, if you need *MORE SPACE* for your throw out bearing than you have, then you need to create space in one of two ways:

Block to Bellhousing Spacer
Transimission to Bellhousing Spacer
Both are made up to .25" thick, both require different considerations.

A block spacer will require longer dowel pins so I prefer a transmission spacer, however, the bearing retainer on the TKX is not much thicker than .25", so be mindful of this. To much of a spacer will push your trans out of the bellhousing bore!

*MOST IMPORTANTLY:* If it is, FOR EXAMPLE, 6" from the face of your bellousing to the face of your pilot bearing, and the input shaft on your transmission is 6.5" long, then you will have .5" of your input shaft riding on the pilot bearing. IF YOU ADD EITHER OR ANY SPACER AT ALL, YOU WILL REDUCE THIS BY THE THICKNESS OF THE SPACER. So using a .25" spacer will then leave only .25" of your input shaft in the pilot bearing.

It's not likely that you'll run across this, but you could. Bellhousings are all different depths, so consider this when selecting one.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*A word about removing your Auotomatic Transmission.*

The car up on jack stands is enough to get it out. I welded up a cradle for my floor jack, and I had the TH400 out in under an hour.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Using a throw out bearing seems soooooo much easier. Install, install trans, have someone push the pedal in to release the clutch disc and then adjust the pushrod length at the clutch fork and you are done. As the clutch disc wears down and the pedal engagement height changes, simply repeat with about 10 minutes of your time and you are done.
> 
> "the diaphragm type clutch takes slightly less travel to release and requires about .030" to .040" total air gap when released. The coil spring type requires about .050" to .080" total air gap when released. Air gap is the clearance between the clutch disc, flywheel, and pressure plate with the clutch released. A total air gap of .050" will measure .025" between each side of the disc. If you get any gear scraping or hard shifting, the air gap may be too tight for your application and increasing the air gap may be needed."
> 
> ...


I would agree. You'll still need to do math for a fork/pivot ball setup, but yes... easier and likely less confusing. 

My concerns for the z bar setup were header clearance and frame mounting.

But, at the end of the day, I will be able to get this TKX in and out of the car in under two hours, so I'm not overly concerned with maintenance either way.


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Here is the 32 ounce blackened steak you get after a hard day of work and progress. Sorry... I ate some before I took the pic.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> Using a throw out bearing seems soooooo much easier


Yeah that article that I posted from "On All Cylinders" and Ram, was one big pile of errors and misinformation. Anyone who follows it would destroy their car. Looks like it was posted in 2016. Nice that no one ever caught it or changed it.


----------



## Rocketman269v (Oct 5, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> As I suspected... All of the hydraulic clutch companies, listing "kits for the GTO", are not correct.
> 
> 
> Don't know how "clutch experts" failed to realize/ discover that the Chevelle doesn't share the same pedal set as BOP.
> ...


I apologize for the late response; haven't been following this thread. I did a hydraulic clutch conversion for a customer several years ago. He had purchased a McLeod kit for a Chevelle. We of course realized that the pedal wouldn't work, so I fabricated linkage to use his stock clutch pedal. The pedal effort was too high; the ratio wasn't sufficient. I then took an automatic brake pedal, cut the pad part down to fit a stick pad, straightened the pedal arm out on my press and used the manual brake mounting hole to achieve the recommended pedal ratio. The pedal is a little longer than a factory one, but worked great. He went on the Hot Rod Power Tour and said that it was no problem when he had to creep along, waiting to get into some of the venues.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> *A word about removing your Auotomatic Transmission.*
> 
> The car up on jack stands is enough to get it out. I welded up a cradle for my floor jack, and I had the TH400 out in under an hour.
> View attachment 152099


Is that a gravel driveway on top of being outside 😬


----------



## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Rocketman269v said:


> I apologize for the late response; haven't been following this thread. I did a hydraulic clutch conversion for a customer several years ago. He had purchased a McLeod kit for a Chevelle. We of course realized that the pedal wouldn't work, so I fabricated linkage to use his stock clutch pedal. The pedal effort was too high; the ratio wasn't sufficient. I then took an automatic brake pedal, cut the pad part down to fit a stick pad, straightened the pedal arm out on my press and used the manual brake mounting hole to achieve the recommended pedal ratio. The pedal is a little longer than a factory one, but worked great. He went on the Hot Rod Power Tour and said that it was no problem when he had to creep along, waiting to get into some of the venues.


Thanks a lot for the contribution! I wont be fiddling with that aspect of the build, until tomorrow... but this will be useful for me.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Is that a gravel driveway on top of being outside 😬


No, but it might as well be.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Here is the 32 ounce blackened steak you get after a hard day of work and progress. Sorry... I ate some before I took the pic.


At least you weren't out there surviving on Slim Jims and Mountain Dew


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

armyadarkness said:


> Here is the 32 ounce blackened steak you get after a hard day of work and progress. Sorry... I ate some before I took the pic.
> View attachment 152101
> 
> 
> View attachment 152100


You certainly know how to do justice to a nice steak. That's just the way I cook them. Seared on the outside and rare to med/rare in the middle. Man that looks good. 
Back to our regular programming....


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Amen! Blackened... seared in a hot iron pan with butter garlic salt and cayanne pepper. This was like the steak that flipped over the Flinstones car. Washed it down with a jalapeno margarita... okay, two, and trice baked potatoes.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

67ventwindow said:


> At least you weren't out there surviving on Slim Jims and Mountain Dew


He only has to do that when his wife kicks him out of the house for spending too much time and money on the GTO and not her! Damn, I hate those kind of reminders.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*New Road Block*

The clutch disc springs, contact the flywheel bolt heads. Tried different bolts and removed the lock washers too. It's a Ram Clutch and Ram flywheel, with ARP bolts. This means I either need:

Bolts with thinner/ shallower heads
A thicker flywheel.
A different clutch.
Not sure what my luck will be for shallower bolts.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*Next Road Block*

Stuff like this burns me up... There's no mention, anywhere, for how the shifter will protrude through the vehicle. Seems trivial, but I've only done this job once, and I was able to come here and provide pictures, specifications, and instructions... So I feel like EVERY manual conversion company, the resalers and experts, should be able to do the same.

You don't want a bigger hole in your floor than you need, yet if youre using a hole saw, you only get one bite at the apple... so what size hole do you need and where does it need to be?

On my car, 19.75" back from the face of the bellhousing, and at least a 3" hole. More work to do before I can say... However, Im in to this far enough to know that I will need to make a shifter offset, to make the console work.


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## Rocketman269v (Oct 5, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> *New Road Block*
> 
> The clutch disc springs, contact the flywheel bolt heads......


I hope that you don't take offense to this, but is it possible that you have the disc in backwards? I looked back at post #44 and it looks like the springs shouldn't contact the bolts if installed correctly. I know this because I did it TWICE on my own car the first time that I replaced the clutch.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> *New Road Block*
> 
> The clutch disc springs, contact the flywheel bolt heads. Tried different bolts and removed the lock washers too. It's a Ram Clutch and Ram flywheel, with ARP bolts. This means I either need:
> 
> ...


Might be a dumb question but are you sure you don't have the clutch disk on backwards? I wouldn't go with thinner head bolts and no lock washers, remember you have a stock aluminum bell and you're not going to like being in a wheelchair the rest of your life if that flywheel gets launched.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Rocketman269v said:


> I hope that you don't take offense to this, but is it possible that you have the disc in backwards? I looked back at post #44 and it looks like the springs shouldn't contact the bolts if installed correctly. I know this because I did it TWICE on my own car the first time that I replaced the clutch.


No offense taken... Ive been doing stupid stuff since 1969.

But I have just learned the issue: From RAM Clutches, I need to use low profile flywheel bolts. Specifically Mr Gasket 914... I guess it's no coincidence that Butler sells them.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Might be a dumb question but are you sure you don't have the clutch disk on backwards? I wouldn't go with thinner head bolts and no lock washers, remember you have a stock aluminum bell and you're not going to like being in a wheelchair the rest of your life if that flywheel gets launched.


According to Ram and Butler, it's a popular mod... but lets move on. I don't want to say ram and but anymore than I have to.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> No offense taken... Ive been doing stupid stuff since 1969.
> 
> But I have just learned the issue: From RAM Clutches, I need to use low profile flywheel bolts. Specifically Mr Gasket 914... I guess it's no coincidence that Butler sells them.
> 
> ...


Well there you go


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

You started off with an auto, but the original Pontiac flywheel bolts are also super low profile to clear the clutch springs. This is especially important during the service life of the car if the flywheel is resurfaced a time or two, making the gap from springs to bolt heads even closer. If your car was a stick car with the GM bolts to begin with, you would have tried to use the 'new, improved' bolts, found they didn't clear, and likely would have re-installed the old originals. Lots of folks like to use all new aftermarket fasteners, but I'm one of those guys who have no issues using the decades-old factory issue stuff....as long as it's still in good shape. Glad you're moving along on this.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> No offense taken... Ive been doing stupid stuff since 1969.
> 
> But I have just learned the issue: From RAM Clutches, I need to use low profile flywheel bolts. Specifically Mr Gasket 914... I guess it's no coincidence that Butler sells them.
> 
> ...


I have pointed this out several times when using the aftermarket flywheels.

Look at the photo. Correctly installed, but wrong (new) flywheel-to-crankshaft bolts having the taller heads - which of course we "supposed" to be the correct ones, so they advertised. The heads strike the springs and puts a nice shine on 'em - see how the spring/center section is below the disc so it sits into the flywheel center hole. I always had this funny kinda high pitched whine everytime I slipped out the carbon-fiber disc. Never used a carbon-fiber disc, but it was recommended and I assumed the whine was just how it was supposed to sound being carbon-fiber and not your typical organic material. The disc has something over 20,000 miles on it before I pulled the engine.

The first clutch set-up/kit included the wrong length throw out bearing. Pulled the trans and installed the correct one. Tossed the factory clutch fork for a new aftermarket "generic fits all" clutch fork. The poor fit cause it to override the throw out bearing retainer, bust off a nice slice, send it into the pressure plate, and took out 3 of the springs in the pressure plate at high RPM and then it would not operate and I limped home with no clutch. Second clutch/kit installed and no issues EXCEPT when I pulled the engine/trans apart after the 20,000 miles and saw the disc. Now I know what the wrong bolts with higher heads will do and sound like - sounded really cool actually, but I suspect at some point the wear on the springs would have weakened them and who knows what that experience would have provided as it blew apart.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I have pointed this out several times when using the aftermarket flywheels.
> 
> Look at the photo. Correctly installed, but wrong (new) flywheel-to-crankshaft bolts having the taller heads - which of course we "supposed" to be the correct ones, so they advertised. The heads strike the springs and puts a nice shine on 'em - see how the spring/center section is below the disc so it sits into the flywheel center hole. I always had this funny kinda high pitched whine everytime I slipped out the carbon-fiber disc. Never used a carbon-fiber disc, but it was recommended and I assumed the whine was just how it was supposed to sound being carbon-fiber and not your typical organic material. The disc has something over 20,000 miles on it before I pulled the engine.
> 
> The first clutch set-up/kit included the wrong length throw out bearing. Pulled the trans and installed the correct one. Tossed the factory clutch fork for a new aftermarket "generic fits all" clutch fork. The poor fit cause it to override the throw out bearing retainer, bust off a nice slice, send it into the pressure plate, and took out 3 of the springs in the pressure plate at high RPM and then it would not operate and I limped home with no clutch. Second clutch/kit installed and no issues EXCEPT when I pulled the engine/trans apart after the 20,000 miles and saw the disc. Now I know what the wrong bolts with higher heads will do and sound like - sounded really cool actually, but I suspect at some point the wear on the springs would have weakened them and who knows what that experience would have provided as it blew apart.


 I remember Jim, But you start smelling new parts and get greese under your nails and your brain melts and oozes out your ear, So the ground hog day will start again when I start on mine next month.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

67ventwindow said:


> I remember Jim, But you start smelling new parts and get greese under your nails and your brain melts and oozes out your ear, So the ground hog day will start again when I start on mine next month.


Hmmmm, "start again" - Ground Hog Day. Hmmm. Bill Murray? Story of my life - I keep waking up to the same coffe, same Cheerios & rice milk, same crappy commute, same crappy job, same crappy boss, same crappy situations, and then repeat when I get up the next morning. LOL


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Might be a dumb question but are you sure you don't have the clutch disk on backwards? I wouldn't go with thinner head bolts and no lock washers, remember you have a stock aluminum bell and you're not going to like being in a wheelchair the rest of your life if that flywheel gets launched.


Clearance is tight. New bolts are a must, but lock washers are not typically used on flywheels. There is a reason the new hardware didn't come with them. I used the Mr Gasket bolts on mine, same ones Army showed. That's what Ames sells as well. There were no lock washers on my old engine when it came out and I didn't use them on the new one. I used Locktight on all the bolts as added insurance. If torqued correctly, they shouldn't ever go anywhere.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

That's true now that you mentioned it I didn't use lock washers just the red Locktight gel, pretty sure I didn't need low profile bolts though. I have a PRW 11" wheel and McLeod clutch.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> Glad you're moving along on this.


Dropped the driveshaft off to be cut last night. Tonight will be hydraulics and pedal.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

PontiacJim said:


> I have pointed this out several times when using the aftermarket flywheels.


That's the problem with forums... Great information, which is often hard to find. I'm obviously not the first guy to discover this.

When the job is done, I'll do a step by step write up and edit it into my first post.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Jared said:


> Clearance is tight. New bolts are a must, but lock washers are not typically used on flywheels. There is a reason the new hardware didn't come with them. I used the Mr Gasket bolts on mine, same ones Army showed. That's what Ames sells as well. There were no lock washers on my old engine when it came out and I didn't use them on the new one. I used Locktight on all the bolts as added insurance. If torqued correctly, they shouldn't ever go anywhere.


Factory autos have a washer/ spacer ring that sits on the flywheel and the FW bolts go through it. ARP and a few others, supply lock washers with their FW bolts.

Yes Loctite and 95 ftlbs


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

My new flywheel is beefy as Hell. The problem is in the clutch disk, as far as I know. High performance discs use a different profile which would not contact tall bolts, OEM style stock replacements use a profile which require the thin bolt heads.

At least, this is what Ram told me.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*More on the crappy article from Ram and On All Cylinders:*

.015 is a 1/64"... .150 is over 1/8", 

So which is it?
*









Now we need THREE measurements!

One, is A










Two, is C










Three, is B... However they're now instructing you on "How to calculate the third measurement"... Which is actually the Fourth and final measurement that you need. Talk about complicating things... On top of is, it's not how Ram explains it in the included instructions and on their website.*


*







*
*The easy way is to do what I said.. Granted, I don't own or write for "On All Cylinders", and I don't design racing clutches, but I do have a 2nd grade education, and that qualifies me to do this the easy way.*

*Make you bell housing to throw out bearing A*
*Make your assembled clutch and flywheel B*
*Make your block to crank face C*
*Add B and C*
*Subtract them from A*


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

On a positive note, a 53-year-old, out of shape male, can install a Tremec TKX in a 1967 GTO, on his back, in a driveway, when it's snowing, with the car on jack stands. Took under an hour.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> On a positive note, a 53-year-old, out of shape male, can install a Tremec TKX in a 1967 GTO, on his back, in a driveway, when it's snowing, with the car on jack stands. Took under an hour.


So what happened to the bell, you said it was wrecked didn't you?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> So what happened to the bell, you said it was wrecked didn't you?


The guide pin holes are too big. It cant be aligned.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*Important Notes Regarding Bellhousing Alignment:*

All of the videos I watched, showed it being done with the flywheel installed. Don't do it with the flywheel installed. 

Instead, use the crank face. If you do need to remove your dowel pins, it's near impossible to do with the flywheel installed, so rather than install, loctite, and torque the flywheel, only to remove it repeatedly, just dont install it until the alignment is done.

Also, don't bother atempting to setup your dial indicator with the standard Harbor Fright Dial Indicator Type Base... "IF IT WORKS AT ALL", It will not be fun.

I found this mini, full articulating base on Amazon for $19 and it worked AWESOME!








Oudtinx Red Adjustable Magnetic Base Holder for Digital Dial Indicator: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Oudtinx Red Adjustable Magnetic Base Holder for Digital Dial Indicator: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## Rocketman269v (Oct 5, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> ...... a 53-year-old,........


You're a mere yout'; my older son is almost your age.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Rocketman269v said:


> You're a mere yout'; my older son is almost your age.


Hopefully he didn't cause his parents the same amount of grief!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

One thing is for sure, I dont feel young after 5 days of lying on 25 degree asphalt


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> One thing is for sure, I dont feel young after 5 days of lying on 25 degree asphalt


I use blankets under the car to lay on even in the heated garage, You need a temporary shelter


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Here's the hole you need for a TKX. Notice the white paint mark; that's the Neutral position of the Hurst His n Hers, so if I want to use my console, I need to come back at least 3 inch with my shifter.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> My new flywheel is beefy as Hell. The problem is in the clutch disk, as far as I know. High performance discs use a different profile which would not contact tall bolts, OEM style stock replacements use a profile which require the thin bolt heads.
> 
> At least, this is what Ram told me.


I used a Mcleod clutch kit on mine. It's rated for 800 ft lbs. It has a factory style 11" disc just made with a different friction material. Honestly, I went with the Mr Gasket bolts because Ames specified that they worked with factory and aftermarket style clutch discs. I didn't want ot have to guess. The Ram clutch that came off had clearance with whatever flywheel bolts that were on it when I bought the car. Sucks that things like bolts etc are causing so many issues for you.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> On a positive note, a 53-year-old, out of shape male, can install a Tremec TKX in a 1967 GTO, on his back, in a driveway, when it's snowing, with the car on jack stands. Took under an hour.


Wow, *that's* a long time. This 63-year-old could probably press that trans off his chest and get it plugged in in about 10 minutes. You must be getting old?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

armyadarkness said:


> Factory autos have a washer/ spacer ring that sits on the flywheel and the FW bolts go through it. ARP and a few others, supply lock washers with their FW bolts.
> 
> Yes Loctite and 95 ftlbs


Not ALL of them have the ring and you don't need lock washers - its called torque the bolts down to factory specs. But, Loctite can be a safety.

Why did some use the ring spacer? To move the flex plate ring gear further out for proper engagement with the starter gear - just like some starters have shims, but not ALL starters have shims.

And that is the rest of the story.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Well, here they are.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Finally got to deal with the McLeod Hydraulics.

If you're doing this job, you first need to:

Remove your brake master cylinder and booster.
If your car is an auto: Locate the OBVIOUS dummy hole on the steering column support plate, where the hole for the clutch linkage rod would be on a manual. A 2" hole saw fits in it perfect, so drill it out. In this photo, the lower hole.










So far as I can tell, it's NOT the pedals and pedal hanger which are different than a Chevelle, it's the penetration point of the linkage rod on the firewall... And possibly the pedals too... but for now, lets see.

Here you see that the McLeod Plate doesnt line up. Mounting the McLeod master cylinder bracket, allows me to see that their slave cylinder will not line up with the hole in the steering column plate, where a Pontiac clutch linkage rod would pass through.










So record the angle on the McLeod bracket and cut along the bend to separate the top and bottom.










Then mount the slave into the lower half and hold it in place to make a new alignment mark.










Then REMOVE THE SLAVE, tack weld the two parts of the plate back together, check the angle, reinstall the slave, and test fit.





























And now, excuse the wiring mess, hang the aftermarket clutch and brake pedals that I got from OPG.










And as you can see... The heim joint on the slave cylinder now falls directly onto the clutch pedal of a 67 GTO.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Finally got to deal with the McLeod Hydraulics.
> 
> If you're doing this job, you first need to:
> 
> ...


Nice job, but you said "slave" and "penetration " so I think you should be in time out 🤣


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> Finally got to deal with the McLeod Hydraulics.
> 
> If you're doing this job, you first need to:
> 
> ...


Nice work on this Army! Sucks having to cut and reweld new parts but it's part of the Pontiac experience. Be both know that most of the aftermarket supports Chevy and Ford. The rest of us have to make it work.

Your project highlights why I hate the Hot Rod Garage type shows. Those guys make it look like you open a box and blot on parts where the reality is closer to what you are dealing with. The exception may be that old show Gears. That guy was honest about the work and fabrication needed even on off the shelf kits.

Again, Nice work!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

FYI, McLeod now owns Silver Sport Transmissions... So that might explain why my experience was so poor, in comparison to others here. And for the record, McLeod is owned by a born and raised New Jersey attorney.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*Tech Notes on Guide Pin Removal and Install:*

No matter how tempting it may be, don't even try to use Vise Grips or welding to the pins. As mentioned earlier, do your bellhousing run-out without the flywheel installed, then the pins can be removed without hurting the flywheel, and you have a lot more space.

If the engine is in the car, you need a right angle drill or a right angle die grinder, and sharp, short drill bits.

Make a dowel pin puller:

Take a 4" angle grinder with a cutoff wheel and I cut the pins off to be square, and about 1/8" sticking out of the block. 
Drill a pilot hole with a 1/4" drill bit, with a piece of tape around it so that you don't drill deeper than 1/2".
Drill again to tap the hole 5/16 coarse thread. If you dont have room with your drill to drill centered and square, it's okay to be off a bit
Clean the hole out with brake or carb cleaner.
Place a 3/8 drive 3/4" socket over the dowel pin.
Thread a nut then a washer onto a 5/16" bolt, long enough that the threads pass through the socket and fully into the dowel pin.
Now tighten the nut down onto the socket and if you have a propane torch, put a bottle of Map Gas on it and heat up around the dowel. It will pop out.
Use hardened hardware with oil on it, if you can.

I bought the Lakewood Dowel Pins with the allen head hole on the end. EVEREYONE on the web said that they didn't work and couldnt be turned, so before I installed them, I spun them with a drill and polished them VERY WELL with sand paper, then I greased them before installation, and they could now be turned with an allen wrench.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

*Notes on Trans Install:*

Everyone said to install the flywheel, clutch, and bellhousing first, but I would definitely NOT do so, especially if you're using a hydraulic throw out bearing.

I would install the flywheel and clutch, then assemble the bellhousing to the transmission and install it, like an automatic trans.

Because if you have a hydraulic throw out bearing:

You need to have the bearing lying in the bellhousing with the hoses coming out the side of the bell.
Get the trans up in the air.
Slide the input shaft into the bell
Attempt to spear the bearing over the shaft
Fully seat it squarely onto the input shaft, while turning it to align it with the TO bearing guide pin, which will not be easy now because it'll all be inside the bellhousing
However, regardless of whether or not you have a hydraulic T/O bearing, I would still install the bell to the trans, and then install is as one piece. Here's why:

In order to install the transmission, it has to be completely level. 

If you install the bell to the block, now you have to raise the Tremec, level, at least 8" back from where it will be when fully seated, and then slide it forward (potentially installing a TO bearing, too). Since the Tremecs are top loaders, the shifter will hit the floor, long before the trans is level, which will require you to cut a much bigger hole in the floor.

Once the trans is installed, you'll see that the hole you cut is at least 4" deeper than it needs to be.

On the other hand, if you install the bellhousing to the trans first, now you only need to have the transmission back about 4", just enough to clear the clutch fingers when you raise it. And obviously your T/O bearing will already be installed as well.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

And here's how it lines up with the auto console. I can shift through all of the gears, as it sits, but I'll install a 2" rearset, just for aesthetics.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

As it turns out, the Mc Leod setup STILL will not work. 


I don't like the geometry
I find it to be of inferior quality
Mc Leod was absorbed by a New Jersey attorney and they're a bunch of nasty assholes, who don't stand behind their products.
So... A more advanced unit is on the way, from American Powertrain. And on that note; here's why they SUCK!!!!

I called American to purchase my kit from, and they didn't bother to return my calls or emails. That was for a $5000 sale. Since then, Ive left several messages, and they havnt returned a single call yet.

Finally, I had Summit Racing call them for me, and when I spoke to them, it was they guy who I left all of the messages for. So, unless you enjoy not having support, stay away from them, too.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

@coyote595 Mc Leod and Silversport Transmissions were bought by a New Jersey law firm, so when you consider that new jersey has had the highest legal/ political corruption rating in the country, since 2003, that should tell you where Mc Leod and Silversport are heading.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> @coyote595 Mc Leod and Silversport Transmissions were bought by a New Jersey law firm, so when you consider that new jersey has had the highest legal/ political corruption rating in the country, since 2003, that should tell you where Mc Leod and Silversport are heading.


Really ? More than Illinois, we had two governors in a row go to jail and four in the last 40 years 🤥


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

armyadarkness said:


> And here's how it lines up with the auto console. I can shift through all of the gears, as it sits, but I'll install a 2" rearset, just for aesthetics.


Are you going to fabricate a bracket to move the shifter back or is there a shifter available with the correct offset? Personally, I'd go the fab route. Doing so would allow you to place the shifter exactly where it feels the best to you. Maybe put the seat back in, and adjust it just right.

Really nice work!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> Really ? More than Illinois, we had two governors in a row go to jail and four in the last 40 years 🤥


Our last governor had the lowest approval rating of any politician, in the history of the country. He closed the beaches during Sandy, and then took his friends and family to the beach. When a mayor didnt support him, he closed a bridge to the city during rush hour. Some people died and 500 others were stranded for 3 hours. He took the State Police helicopter to his kids soccer games.

The MTV beach house, the Sopranos, Snooky, Al Capone... if you like crap, NJ is the place to be.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Jared said:


> Are you going to fabricate a bracket to move the shifter back or is there a shifter available with the correct offset? Personally, I'd go the fab route. Doing so would allow you to place the shifter exactly where it feels the best to you. Maybe put the seat back in, and adjust it just right.
> 
> Really nice work!





Jared said:


> Are you going to fabricate a bracket to move the shifter back or is there a shifter available with the correct offset? Personally, I'd go the fab route. Doing so would allow you to place the shifter exactly where it feels the best to you. Maybe put the seat back in, and adjust it just right.
> 
> Really nice work!


Hanlon Motor Sports sent me a 2" rear set, as a peace offering for all of the trouble with Mc Leod. It'll be super low profile. I finally drove the car into the garage last night, so over the next week Ill be cleaning and tweaking.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Hanlon Motor Sports sent me a 2" rear set, as a peace offering for all of the trouble with Mc Leod. It'll be super low profile. I finally drove the car into the garage last night, so over the next week Ill be cleaning and tweaking.


Now you pull the car into the garage 🙄


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> Our last governor had the lowest approval rating of any politician, in the history of the country. He closed the beaches during Sandy, and then took his friends and family to the beach. When a mayor didnt support him, he closed a bridge to the city during rush hour. Some people died and 500 others were stranded for 3 hours. He took the State Police helicopter to his kids soccer games.
> 
> The MTV beach house, the Sopranos, Snooky, Al Capone... if you like crap, NJ is the place to be.


Oh ya I remember governor Crusty 🤪


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Baaad65 said:


> Oh ya I remember governor Crusty 🤪


You had to reminds us lol. Not from there but, he is trying to claw his way back to something.Anyway, back to Army and the Tremec TKS.


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