# Sticky  Dan's 69 Restore Tale



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

**EDIT ** Trying to fix pics... 02-28-2019

Hi all,

Earlier this summer, 4th of July to be exact (literally on the 4th she arrived from Florida) I became another one of those guys in a long long line of guys when I full-filled a life-long dream of owning a muscle car I grew up working on with my Dad. I learned most of what I know from Dad and those era cars – I’ve always coveted them as many others before me.

There she is Ms. Muscle car (la la la) 

View attachment 117891


No, she is not a real Judge and she won’t be branded as such when I’m done. I do have to admit is it fun watching people drool or flip out when they see her. One guy stopped at the house and started shaking because he was standing next to a judge… I did’t have the heart to tell him otherwise.

So enough about me – you are reading this because you like these cars. I plan to “restore” this ride to its former glory but I have a lot of decisions to make and some work to do so I can drive her with confidence – which I don’t have now. I will be doing all the work myself (mostly) – I’m partly a self taught car guy, outside if what Dad tough me of course. This won’t be my first restore but my largest and most detailed for sure!

On to the car… I found her in Florida. She was built and bought in Fremont California and moved to Florida later in life where I found her through a mutual acquaintance with the previous owner. I knew she had some issues when I bought her – it was not sight unseen but her body is near perfect with no “bondo” – meaning nothing more than a skim coat for straightness and no “repairs. I was disappointed to find out the truck lid had been replaced by a Lemans or Tempest lid – the filler spots have come loose in the old emblem holes. Since I have the touch of a bull in a china shop and not much welding experience I’ll have a professional do that bit of work.

View attachment 117893


View attachment 117895


Sporting a numbers matching drive train (engine, trans and all) with only 66K miles and a color change 20 years ago from Gold-n-Gold to Black-n-white she is pretty clean and has all original parts including the seat covers which were dyed not replaced – save the non-factory radio. My first dilemma, do I restore her to factory colors and all, stick with the current color scheme or change it to my favorite color Verdoro green? I know she’ll be worth more casheesh in original colors but I’m not a fan of the gold-n-gold. That being said the color decision can wait as my first concern is to make her road worthy mechanically.

She has these options:
1. Working factory A/C
2. Auto trans
3. Remote trunk release
4. Glove box light
5. Courtesy lights.
6. Front disc brakes
7. Shoulder belts
8. windshield antenna


First question: what would you guys do color wise?

So... Saturday I started on the brakes.

I was told the brakes had just been done but I was puzzled why they were so hard to apply. I figured they had air in them and simple bloodletting was in order.

I opened them up to see new wheel cylinders in the rear... and lots of rust, actually a puzzling amount of rust for a California/Florida car. Ok, so the brakes were done (including a booster and master cylinder). Now I'm doubly puzzled...

View attachment 117905


I begin to work on them and this is what I find when I pulled the brake ram... leaking wheel cylinders!!! Actually I was shocked to find then FULL of water!!!!

View attachment 118281


So, off to the local parts mecca.... Then when I started to put them back together I had this start happening....

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Yes, ALL the springs were bent up and/or snapped as I pulled on them to rebuild the brakes... BACK to the parts store... obviously I had all original brake springs and all too.



Some parts were pretty rusty, I debated on soaking them in vinegar and hitting this with a wire wheel but I wanted to get it back on the road sooner than that would take so I used a wire wheel to clean them up... I’ll attack the wheel housings and such when I do the real restore as this is just the mechanical restore.

View attachment 118279


Yea, my toes are pictures whores just like me. I hope you guys like pictures because they are my bag. 

More to come because of limited photos per post...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Initial post part duex*

I also found these parts looked like there were hammered on... I’m hopping the braking system isn’t doing that!!





… and the mystery of why there was so much rust is solved... there are TWO holes in the brake system, one on the backer plates and one on the drum(s). The plugs were missing allowing water to enter!!! I believe the passenger drum was replaced at some point as it is the only one with a hole in it and the passenger side was rusted much more than the driver side so double the water was getting in to muck things up.



Bleeding the brakes exposed another mystery... Almost no fluid comes out the back wheel cylinders and the fronts blow out huge "plugs" of air over and over... despite the pedal becoming easier to apply. Also, I could not believe the amount of water and gunk that came out of the lines. I'm wondering if I'll need hard lines...I’m hoping someone here can tell me if the OEM lines were stainless and I wonder if the master cylinder is bad or air is entering the system somewhere down stream - I don't have any visible leaks... or is it the proportioning valve or distribution block and which do I have. 

This car has factory Delco-Remy front disc and drum rear brakes.

What to do what to do...

I look forward to this restore and any input/advice you guys can give me will be much appreciated.

So, my first batch of questions.

1.	Restore to original colors, keep what I have or go Verdoro green?
2.	Are the hard line stainless from the factory?
3.	Do I have a proportioning valve or distribution block with my factory front disc/ rear drum set up?


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Nice looking car Dan! To answer your questions....

1. IMO I love the black and white and your car has all the desirable options and (again) IMO it would be worth more as is than you would put into it with a color change either to Verdoro Green or Gold.

2. Hardlines were mild steel from the factory but (IMO again :lol You'd be well ahead to replace the 40+ year old lines with the SS.

3. You have a distribution block and a proportioning valve from the factory, the proportioning valve is mounted to the MC and the dist. block is mounted to the frame.

:cheers


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks ALKYGTO. I appreciate your opinions/feedback (I've been lurking here for a while and see you are a very helpful member).

I crawled under the car tonight and realized the distribution block isn't bolted to the frame (probably the reason for it failing).

Is this the proportioning valve of which you speak? The same as what I've found is called the hold off valve?



I decided tonight during my research into the brake parts to replace all the lines and distribution block. I'm leaning heavily toward the SS lines - I only want to do this once. 

As for the color, you're right but I don't have to make that determination for some time. That being said, to make this car what I want it to be it will have to be painted some day.

Thanks again, Dan




ALKYGTO said:


> Nice looking car Dan! To answer your questions....
> 
> 1. IMO I love the black and white and your car has all the desirable options and (again) IMO it would be worth more as is than you would put into it with a color change either to Verdoro Green or Gold.
> 
> ...


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

If you plan on keeping the car then paint it any color you want. If you plan on selling it, then I would pick a factory color and leave the interior alone, the amount you would spend to go gold/gold would far outway the difference in price for the incorrect colors.
That car looks like it's in great shape allready, are you sure you want the cost involved (and time) for a frame off? Unless you want a concourse car or a trailer queen, I would just freshen up the underside and call it a day.
The brakes are not water tight and it does rain in Florida, rust is normal. If you have never driven a muscle car before, the brakes are no where near the feel of todays cars. At least yours has disc brakes and power, mine is 4 drum and manual. Goes like hell, doesn't stop worth a sh*^$**. 
Congrates on a great car.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for your insight 68GTO4004Spd. 

No, I don't want a trailer queen or a concourse restore just a really nice or high quality driver. At present her paint is a 10 footer so to make it better (what I like to do) it will need a repaint or touch up if I keep the black. The previous paint job (20 years ago I'm told) is lacking with craters in the clear (probably water in the air compressor lines when sprayed), raised spots where they didn't do a good job blocking or wiping her down before paint and a spot or two where they wet sanded through the paint and didn't do a good touch up (they didn't weld the truck holes for the lemans lid emblem either). Yea, sure they are cosmetic issues but I'd like to have a 100% mechanically sound car with very good skin and interior (which only needs some minor cosmetic fixes and cushions).

You're right, I don't intend to sell it so it will most likely stay black or go green and keep the white interior no matter the exterior color. 

I agree rust is normal, I just didn't expect that much knowing how the PO cared for the car - there was a big difference with the passenger side having more and both plugs missing.

:lol: Yea, I jumped out of my skin the first time someone cut me off in this car. I figured the front disks would help but it's a heavy beast so it took some getting used to. :lol: It reminded me of trying to stop my '76 Caprice Classic loaded with fuel and all my college gear (and the future Mrs. Dan's gear too).



68GTO4004Spd said:


> If you plan on keeping the car then paint it any color you want. If you plan on selling it, then I would pick a factory color and leave the interior alone, the amount you would spend to go gold/gold would far outway the difference in price for the incorrect colors.
> That car looks like it's in great shape allready, are you sure you want the cost involved (and time) for a frame off? Unless you want a concourse car or a trailer queen, I would just freshen up the underside and call it a day.
> The brakes are not water tight and it does rain in Florida, rust is normal. If you have never driven a muscle car before, the brakes are no where near the feel of todays cars. At least yours has disc brakes and power, mine is 4 drum and manual. Goes like hell, doesn't stop worth a sh*^$**.
> Congrates on a great car.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Very Nice! I too, like the Black and white combo. ...and that IS a hold off valve, not a proportioning valve.

Congrats!

Chuck


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thank you kind sir, I appreciate the help/kind words.

Dan



chuckha62 said:


> Very Nice! I too, like the Black and white combo. ...and that IS a hold off valve, not a proportioning valve.
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> Chuck


Stainless Steel brake lines should arrive today, distribution block should be here by Friday or Saturday and the rest of the brake hoses, steering gear, PS hoses and such should be here Saturday or Monday... Looks like I'm going to be a busy boy.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, did you get a chance to check the other wheel cylinder? Did it have water in it as well? It sounds to me like your rear end was submerged in water. You might want to check the differential as well. Matt


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, sorry, I forgot to say... you have a great looking car. I recommend getting the baseline maintenance stuff done and go drive it. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Mathew, I appreciate your input.

While it's on jack stands I will be taking the diff cover off as well to replace the seal. It has a leak anyway. 

I thought about it being submerged but the driver side is no where near as rusty as the passenger side. I'm hoping it was just those open adjuster plug holes.

I will be replacing the passenger side rear brake cylinder too, when I'm done the entire brake system will be new and yes I plan to drive it as you suggested after I get all the mechanicals done.

Regarding the rear diff, I've read I should use a GM gear oil and a GM additive - about 27 ounces worth. Is this true or is "standard" hypoid gear oil like Lucas Oil a proper product to use? (assuming I have a limited Slip Diff which I have not verified yet).



Matthew said:


> Dan, did you get a chance to check the other wheel cylinder? Did it have water in it as well? It sounds to me like your rear end was submerged in water. You might want to check the differential as well. Matt





Matthew said:


> Dan, sorry, I forgot to say... you have a great looking car. I recommend getting the baseline maintenance stuff done and go drive it. Matt


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Dan, very nice car I vote keep it black/white, stunning combo. With the front disc's and drums operating and adjusted properly she will stop better than you might expect as long as your pulling enough vacuum (not too big of cam). Second time out after my resto wife was driving and some idiot decided to cut out in front of her to test mine, the car stopped dead straight Barely breaking grip on the tires. drive it and enjoy before you have to put her on blocks for re-hab...:cheers


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi Instg8ter, Thanks for the post... most my brake parts arrived today, the rest should be here Saturday... I hope to be back on the road early next week. Being in Ohio she's going into storage in late October so I want to get it going again before then and have some fun on the road.

The cam/vacuum shouldn't be a problem because the drive train and engine are all original.

Thanks again, Dan



Instg8ter said:


> Welcome to the forum Dan, very nice car I vote keep it black/white, stunning combo. With the front disc's and drums operating and adjusted properly she will stop better than you might expect as long as your pulling enough vacuum (not too big of cam). Second time out after my resto wife was driving and some idiot decided to cut out in front of her to test mine, the car stopped dead straight Barely breaking grip on the tires. drive it and enjoy before you have to put her on blocks for re-hab...:cheers


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

well hopefully we will get an Indian summer, i am just north of Toledo in MI...hope to see you at the Dreamcruise next year.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

It's on my list of things to do, car show wise. it's not too far from here!



Instg8ter said:


> well hopefully we will get an Indian summer, i am just north of Toledo in MI...hope to see you at the Dreamcruise next year.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I also vote keep it black on white and cruise it till it needs paint then decide. Post some pics of your brake work this weekend! :beer:


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*^^^^^*

Agreed! Black and white look "right" on that particular model. VERY NICE!!! :cool


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it.

FlambeauHO, I didn't work on the car this weekend, all my parts didn't arrive yet - should be here tomorrow. As a result I went to the MOPAR "run what ya brung" races at a local drag track Saturday. One guy in a 10 second Dodge Dart tried using two fully open bottles of Nitrous and literally put her on the rear bumper before it came crashing back to earth!!! I'm betting he has to change his nickers after that! 

I can't wait two weeks until the "It's still a win if you finish on your roof" races.

This week will be tear down and rebuild of the GTO brake system!!

Dan



FlambeauHO said:


> I also vote keep it black on white and cruise it till it needs paint then decide. Post some pics of your brake work this weekend! :beer:





gjones said:


> Agreed! Black and white look "right" on that particular model. VERY NICE!!! :cool


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

OK, my first quandary... I can't find what axel this is... it certainly is not a GTO rear end. Any help would be greatly appreciated guys. Dan






I also started to docuent the brake system overhaul - disassembly - but the camera died... ugly can't hide from teh light of a camera flash.



The distribution block was not bolted to the frame... probably why it doesn't work any longer.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

dan woodland said:


> OK, my first quandary... I can't find what axel this is... it certainly is not a GTO rear end. Any help would be greatly appreciated guys. Dan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Show us a shot of the rear cover on that axle assembly Dan. Cover will identify it.

Distribution block doesn't "need" to be bolted to the frame to work although it's best that is should be secured.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks ALKYGTO, 

It's a 10 bolt with scallops on each side where the axle enters the diff.

My camera battery is charged, I'll post pictures tonight.

I did find ONE reference as a '69 Grand Prix SL 3.23 Non-slip on a defunct non-Pontiac site by ONE guy a number of years ago.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

ALKYGTO, 

Here is my diff cover... it has L10 stamped on it.





Thanks for the help. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ok, today was reconnaissance/photo day... Rear brake "parts".

Rear distribution block.



Flex line connection.






This one will be fun...



Front brake parts to replace...





The new main distribution block came in last week.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

These all arrived in the last few days...

It's like my birthday is lasting all month long!!! :lol:

Shocks and ball joints...



Not sure why the rear brake lines didn't show today.



Radiator core support bushings, light gaskets, hood blanket and more... I'm also going to reinstall options removed many moons ago like the glove box and center console lights and vanity mirror. My tail lights leak so I'll replace those seals too.



Some light reading, I thought I was done with my education.



The new steering gear literally weighs 29 pounds!!



The wrong sway bar to body bushings were installed. I need to order the right ones. The correct one is on the right.



Need to order these too.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

It is like xmas!, I had a room that was my shipping/receiving room because of all the parts. Probably spent 4k on shipping during the resto.. love the KYB gas-a-just shocks, they seem to handle great.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

That ten bolt you have is a Pontiac 8.2. You'll have to take the cover off to determine the ratio, but if it were mine and had a ratio that I didn't want, I'd rebuild it with a new posi carrier and a 3.23:1 ratio.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

FlambeauHO said:


> It is like xmas!, I had a room that was my shipping/receiving room because of all the parts. Probably spent 4k on shipping during the resto.. love the KYB gas-a-just shocks, they seem to handle great.


:lol: Yes, I know what you mean... I ordered more small part last night having to pay more shipping from a place I just received parts from. I also do mini truck restoration parts so I have a basement full of parts for that, I will just add the GTO parts to the store room. 

I've used the gas adjust on other cars and I like the ride so I figured they would be a good call on this car as well. It already has some KYB shocks on it but I'm betting they are shot.



chuckha62 said:


> That ten bolt you have is a Pontiac 8.2. You'll have to take the cover off to determine the ratio, but if it were mine and had a ratio that I didn't want, I'd rebuild it with a new posi carrier and a 3.23:1 ratio.


Thanks for the ID chuckha62. I like your idea, I'll add that to the list of things to do after I'm done driving her (while deciding on a paint scheme and any other major $$ changes/upgrades).

I'll crack the case to fix the leak, I'll count teeth then.

Can you tell me the practical and performance difference between the two (8.2 and 3.23)?

Is it common to have a "different" rear end from the same era in a car that was advertised as all original? I know no one knows why it's there but I'm curious if it was common in the late 60s and 70s to swap out rear ends and why it may have been done with a car in such good shape (performance, gas mileage)???

Is a rebuild something I can do, I'm pretty handy, or should I have a shop do it?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm an analyst by trade and training. 

Thanks in advance, Dan


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

8.2 refers to the ring gear diameter in inches. The "ten bolt" refers to how many bolts hold the ring to the carrier, not how many bolts hold the cover onto the housing. 3.23 refers to the gear ratio. If I recall correctly, you're running a 3.90:1 now. Great from stop light to stop light, but impossible to drive long distances on the freeway. 3.23:1 will give you a nice around town gear and you can drive all day at 65 MPH without buzzing the crap out of the engine. The Pontiac 400 makes plenty of torque down low, so 3.23 will still accelerate nicely for you. You'll need a new carrier to install 3.23's. If you run 3.42's, I believe you can run the carrier you currently have.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the information chuckha62, I do appreciate it. 

Gearing is a new arena for me so I'm looking to learn all about it. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of the "10 bolt" cover versus the ring bolt count.

She does okay from my first impressions/experience but I'll know more when I open the diff cover and count teeth and bolts.

I found this on-line... I don't know if it's accurate (yet) but it's a start...

Optimum Rear Gear



chuckha62 said:


> 8.2 refers to the ring gear diameter in inches. The "ten bolt" refers to how many bolts hold the ring to the carrier, not how many bolts hold the cover onto the housing. 3.23 refers to the gear ratio. If I recall correctly, you're running a 3.90:1 now. Great from stop light to stop light, but impossible to drive long distances on the freeway. 3.23:1 will give you a nice around town gear and you can drive all day at 65 MPH without buzzing the crap out of the engine. The Pontiac 400 makes plenty of torque down low, so 3.23 will still accelerate nicely for you. You'll need a new carrier to install 3.23's. If you run 3.42's, I believe you can run the carrier you currently have.


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## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

There a two ways to determine rear gear ratios. 1 lift the tires off the ground, turn one revolution of the drive shaft and count how many times the right rear tire rotates (gives you a rough guess). 2 open the pumpkin and read the numbers off the ring gear and devide the numbers. In the pic below 39 devided by 11 = 3.55 gear ratio (tire turn 3 1/2 times for one turn of driveshaft). Hmm won't let me upload photo, I will try again later.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I disassembled everything brake related tonight... I found these might be my problems. The hold off valve was completely blocked/locked up.



I might have to contact NASA to have them analyze this one... I'm not sure it's really bad. Explains why the driver side was sucking air!



The rest of the brake parts I ordered showed today and all the brake clips come Friday. Now I need to get a new hold off valve. Luckily my friend works at Summit here in Ohio. I can get that the same day I order it.

Tomorrow I start brake system reassembly. I plan to have it done by Saturday so I can get back on the road. If I get done Friday I'll probably do the shocks while she's in the air and maybe even the rear diff gasket and oil.

More to come...


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Good finds, both of them. When you get it all replaced and you're ready to bleed the brakes, do them in order: right rear, left rear, right front, left front. Remember though, that before you begin bleeding the front brakes you may need to press that button on the hold off valve in order to get fluid to the front calipers. This is particularly true if you try to bleed them with a pressure bleeder.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks chuckha62, You answered one of my very near future questions.

It appears the hold off was simply cleaned and repainted to look new... not cool.

Unfortunately my daily summer driver, 25 years old, blew a transmission on the way home from Summit Racing after picking up my last brake parts for the GTO... how frustrating. A dead car, a repair bill and I didn't get to work on my ride.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, today didn't go as planned... but I did get some stuff done.

First since I don't have a stock rear end the lines I ordered are "different" than what I needed but I made them work for now while I track down the proper lines.



The "dip" is missing but this will work for now.



The rear lines are all hooked up with the new soft line as well.



Front to rear line went in easier than expected with some replacement clips.





Any one have a "trick" to get this clip installed?



I did a lot of cleaning today, eliminating what rust I do have on parts. These front caliper bolts were soaked in vinegar overnight and wire brushed. I made sure they were free or blockages inside too.



I was able to get the front soft lines on and installed self-bleeders but...



The hard lines I received were incorrect. They were for a disc brake conversion car not a factory disc brake car so I could not finish today - hence it didn't go as planned to be on the road tomorrow morning. New front brake lines are supposed to be drop shipped Monday from the manufacturer.

So... I started replacing shocks...



I found this today while researching rear ends. I'll crack mine open tomorrow or Monday and figure out what I have.



I also replaced my sway bar end links. 

More to come... Dan


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Lots of progress nice work!


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

To install those clips use a Very dull chisel (one with the sharp edge completely ground off to about 1/8 to 3/16 wide tip) and smack with a hammer. 

Watch your thumb! :cheers


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

:agree
Sometimes the hoses have to be twisted in just the right way to get them to bottom out in the bracket so you can get the clips on.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks guys. 

ALKYGTO that gives me an idea, thanks. I'll let you know if it works - and I'll try yours too.



FlambeauHO said:


> Lots of progress nice work!





ALKYGTO said:


> To install those clips use a Very dull chisel (one with the sharp edge completely ground off to about 1/8 to 3/16 wide tip) and smack with a hammer.
> 
> Watch your thumb! :cheers





Rukee said:


> :agree
> Sometimes the hoses have to be twisted in just the right way to get them to bottom out in the bracket so you can get the clips on.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

My first project on my car has taught me many lessons already.

1. Don’t rely on the guy at that place when ordering parts. Figure out what part you need and tell them the part number. They are just order takers not deep thinkers or listeners.

It took three times to get the proper front brake line kit and that was even after I called to confirm the following day.

2. Test fit parts right away. Don’t wait until the planned “install” day to find out they aren’t right. Also helps you find out about any adjustments you may need to make everything fit.

Same issue as above, the guy sent the wrong part even after telling me the right part number for my distribution block.

Also, said replacement Rear View Mirror was NOT as advertised being .5 inches shorter and the day/night feature didn’t work.

3. Now I know why frame off restores are “common” after you start looking at your ride. Projects are much easier when the body is off so you can do “while I’m under here projects” much easier/faster.

Although my first foray into brake hard line replacement went faster/easier than I expected it took some fancy maneuvering of a lines including a six foot line to get it installed. They flex quite a bit and are fairly forgiving but you still need to be careful not to bend them.

4. Verify return procedures/costs BEFORE you buy. Be willing to eat return shipping if you get the wrong parts even if you are not wrong. Apparently the customer isn’t always right when it comes to restoring car parts.

Hopefully someone can benefit from these parts listings:

From Right Stuff Detailing and many other retailers that sell their parts
5-piece front brake line kit for OEM Disc brakes. AKT-6903S (S is Stainless)

5-piece front brake line kit for OEM Drum converted to disc brakes. AKT-6905S (S is Stainless). these are also referred to as Standard brakes.



Brake Distribution block - NOT the hold off.
PV06 is for 67-29



PV07 is for 70-72 - I was sent this one first.

Things are moving along now that I have the proper parts.



Some things need a touch of manipulation... they don't line up perfectly but they are close enough to make small adjustments.





The clamp that goes here doesn't line up so it will need to be massaged into place.



I'll adjust the distribution block to allow bolting it to the frame after all the lines are attached...



Some things just end up perfectly...





Todays tip: Take pictures of hard to reach or hard to see spots like the misaligned bolt holes/clips above to help you figure out which direction to move the part or work around an obstruction.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started bleeding brakes tonight... I can't seem to get the pedal to drop to the floor when doing the rear brakes. I get a small amount of air and no fluid.

Is it vapor lock of some sort?

The front brakes were "pre bled" because the self bleeders I bought don't work - even when seated all the way into the calipers. I know I needed to do the back brakes first but as it turned out the front were automatically done as i did the rear passenger side.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dan

PS. I should mention I have the rear brakes adjusted properly before I started.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I like to gravity bleed them. Take the MC top off, fill with brake fluid, open the passenger side rear bleeder and grab a beer and wait. It may take a while. If you still don't get any fluid back there then try to pump the pedal with the bleeder open, BUT, only pump the pedal up and down about an inch to an inch and a half till the fluid comes out. Once you get fluid there close that one and open the drivers side rear and gravity bleed that side. Then move to the passenger side front and bleed that one, then the drivers side. Once you have fluid on all 4 corners, pump the pedal a few times and then bleed all 4 corners again just to be sure all the air is out. GLHF.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hum, I didn't see anything in the instructions about a beer. I like your version better. 

Thanks, Rukee!

Dan



Rukee said:


> I like to gravity bleed them. Take the MC top off, fill with brake fluid, open the passenger side rear bleeder and grab a beer and wait. It may take a while. If you still don't get any fluid back there then try to pump the pedal with the bleeder open, BUT, only pump the pedal up and down about an inch to an inch and a half till the fluid comes out. Once you get fluid there close that one and open the drivers side rear and gravity bleed that side. Then move to the passenger side front and bleed that one, then the drivers side. Once you have fluid on all 4 corners, pump the pedal a few times and then bleed all 4 corners again just to be sure all the air is out. GLHF.


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## GoatGuru (Oct 1, 2013)

*Color*



dan woodland said:


> I also found these parts looked like there were hammered on... I’m hopping the braking system isn’t doing that!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Me my self the gold is a nice color and you don't see gold GTOs around often so I would Paint it back Gold Now the interior I would keep it blk and white I think it would look good with the gold exterior . No hard lines are not stainless those are aftermarket. Yes there is a Proportioning valve for the Frt disc rear drum. as with disc /disc .it will be located on the frame or under the master cylinder. I like the ones off the master cylinder for sure if your running headers. hope this helps and enjoy Your Motoring...


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## GoatGuru (Oct 1, 2013)

GoatGuru said:


> Me my self the gold is a nice color and you don't see gold GTOs around often so I would Paint it back Gold Now the interior I would keep it blk and white I think it would look good with the gold exterior . No hard lines are not stainless those are aftermarket. Yes there is a Proportioning valve for the Frt disc rear drum. as with disc /disc .it will be located on the frame or under the master cylinder. I like the ones off the master cylinder for sure if your running headers. hope this helps and enjoy Your Motoring...


I did forget to say. Black is sharp and my opinion looks sharp. If I didn't go back gold I would keep it black..


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thx GoatGuru I appreciate your comments. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Gravity bleeding isn't working and neither is lightly pressing the pedal.

I can't depress the "button" on the new Hold Off valve and if I press any harder on the brake pedal the master cylinder looks like it's going to pop off the front of the booster. The brake pedal only has an inch or two of travel before it stops dead.

I have no leaks and as you know every line and fitting is new including the distribution block. The only "old" parts are the master and booster which were supposed to be new when I bought the car.

I know the Hold Off is ok because fluid does flow to the front brakes.

I did not bench bleed the master because it was already in the car and had fluid run through it before I bought the car.

Obviously, the brake light comes on.

Could the master be bad?
Can the Hold Off affect the rear brakes?
Could the "push rod" be adjusted wrong causing the hard pedal?

The booster appears to be working properly, dropping when the engine is started and holding steady when pumped up while the engine is off. because it is so hard to press with the engine off I can't press it very far at all, probably why I can't get fluid to the rear.

I have three of four weeks of driving time left before the wrath of winter sets in. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thx, Dan




Rukee said:


> I like to gravity bleed them. Take the MC top off, fill with brake fluid, open the passenger side rear bleeder and grab a beer and wait. It may take a while. If you still don't get any fluid back there then try to pump the pedal with the bleeder open, BUT, only pump the pedal up and down about an inch to an inch and a half till the fluid comes out. Once you get fluid there close that one and open the drivers side rear and gravity bleed that side. Then move to the passenger side front and bleed that one, then the drivers side. Once you have fluid on all 4 corners, pump the pedal a few times and then bleed all 4 corners again just to be sure all the air is out. GLHF.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I had trouble bleeding a fresh system with new lines so I purchased a hand vaccum pump from Harbor Freight. It was around 20 bucks and pulls vaccum until you get fluid.. use it on my bikes too. If you don't have a bad component it WILL bleed the system. Good to have around too imo. Here's a link:

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Still no joy... tried the harbor freight vacuum pump (I had one) and I hooked up an electric vacuum pump when that didn't work...I left it run long enough I became concerned I might burn it out... Since that didn't work I opened the nut at the master cylinder and pushed the brake pedal, I got a spray of fluid. Then I opened the nut at the bottom side of the distribution block (which feeds the rear brakes) and fluid began dripping. Next I completely opened the connection at the soft line at the rear...(at the end of the long line from front to rear) NO fluid comes out even if I press the brake pedal. I can't believe the line is clogged but I'll have to remove it and test it.

What an adventure this has been. Dan



FlambeauHO said:


> I had trouble bleeding a fresh system with new lines so I purchased a hand vaccum pump from Harbor Freight. It was around 20 bucks and pulls vaccum until you get fluid.. use it on my bikes too. If you don't have a bad component it WILL bleed the system. Good to have around too imo. Here's a link:
> 
> Brake Bleeder and Vacuum Pump Kit


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

You mentioned in an earlier post that you could not push the button on the hold-off valve. Why? Can you not get to it? If I recall correctly, I had to depress mine with a screwdriver, but once I did the brakes bled normally, front and back.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Try to bleed it at the master, crack the lines loose and have someone depress the pedal, do you get fluid out of both lines?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I can't press it at all, I even used a bar (flat buffer wrench) across the button so I could exert a bit more leverage but it's solid. I may try the screw driver option next.

I thought the Hold Off only affected the front brakes because its an in-line device.



chuckha62 said:


> You mentioned in an earlier post that you could not push the button on the hold-off valve. Why? Can you not get to it? If I recall correctly, I had to depress mine with a screwdriver, but once I did the brakes bled normally, front and back.


Yes, I did. I loosened the lines at the master and it sprayed fluid from the connection. The front brakes are already bled, by default, when the speed bleeders would not seat in the caliper.

I loosened each connection from the master to the rear flex line pressing the brake pedal after loosening each connection (re-tightening after testing each connection). I stopped getting fluid release at the rear flex connection.

I plan to disconnect each of the rear lines and blow air through them to check for blockage.



Rukee said:


> Try to bleed it at the master, crack the lines loose and have someone depress the pedal, do you get fluid out of both lines?


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds like the proportioning valve might be bad. Loosen the rear line going into it and bleed, then loosen the rear line coming out of there and see if you get fluid on both sides of the valve.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'll give it a try but, it's new so I would cetainly hope it's not bad. Thanks Rukee.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Unbelievable, it's a bad brand new distribution block!! Another new one is on the way... geez.


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

I guess I'm not surprised... Machined in China? Might be a chunk of brass stuck inside. You'ld think some sort of testing would have been done before it left the manufacturer.

At least you found it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I AM surprised but I'm also relieved because in only 15 minutes tonight I sucked out the master cylinder brake fluid, removed the old distribution block, installed the new distribution block, hooked up the vacuum pump I inherited from Dad and wall-a!!! I had brake fluid at the rear wheels!!! I cycled each rear wheel three times then pedal bled the front. Tomorrow I'll clean her up put the wheels back on and hopefully take her for a ride, weather permitting.

Thanks to all you guys who have offered up suggestions and help.

The lesson learned on this project, number four thousand seven hundred fifty two, was don't assume new parts are good. The last lesson was don't assume the parts you received are the right ones.

I will never pedal bleed the rear brakes again now that I remembered I have this... what a time saver!!



I hooked a vacuum hose to this and hooked that to the vacuum canister that came with my hand vacuum pump. The other end of the vacuum canister was hooked to the caliper or rear cylinder. 

I kept my hand on the rubber hose and I could feel the air coming through the hose. When that feeling stopped I moved to the next wheel.



chuckha62 said:


> I guess I'm not surprised... Machined in China? Might be a chunk of brass stuck inside. You'ld think some sort of testing would have been done before it left the manufacturer.
> 
> At least you found it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I love it when a plan comes together.

Today I was able to get her back on the road!! It was fun to drive it again.

The new sway bar and sway bar end links made a big difference as well as the rear shocks! The brakes worked perfect, after making some adjustments to the hardline/soften connection at the back. 

I couldn't get it to stop leaking so I called Right Stuff Detailing - where I bought the lines, the guy there gave me the secret. Tighten it, "crank on it" he said then, loosen a touch, crank on it again etc etc... He said doing it three times should do the trick. He was right!!

While I had her in the air I added some spring rubbers, ala NASCAR, to improve the stance on the left front. The spring is so weak the rings were laying on each other. The spring rubbers worked to an extent. It will give me a chance to track down the springs for later when I do all the ball joints and front end bushings.

Next project is to replace the steering gear and both lines. It leaks like a sieve and the steering is very loose. The new gear weighs nearly 30 pounds. 



PS. I determined the front seal is bad on the rear diff as well as the rear seal on the transmission so I'll need to replace those at some point and Imm do the U-joints at the same time... fun fun fun


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Ahhhh, but just wait til you get her dialed in. Congrats on your find and on being able to enjoy it. 

My wife has always been afraid of our classic cars (my Nova was stupid fast!) and has never wanted to drive them. I made her drive the Goat awhile back. when she got back, she had an ear to ear grin on her face and said, "This drives better than my car!" (a 2000 Benz). I said, "I know!"


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Really!! Interesting, although I am really surprised how nicely it rides. I didn't think these cars rode that well back then!

I'm looking forward to that day!



chuckha62 said:


> Ahhhh, but just wait til you get her dialed in. Congrats on your find and on being able to enjoy it.
> 
> My wife has always been afraid of our classic cars (my Nova was stupid fast!) and has never wanted to drive them. I made her drive the Goat awhile back. when she got back, she had an ear to ear grin on her face and said, "This drives better than my car!" (a 2000 Benz). I said, "I know!"


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I drive mine as much as i can get away with (in Michigan 4,000 miles in 3 years), with suspension and brakes up to snuff they drive like a caddy with a bad attitude. Often take it to estimates and contract signings on nice days. Had one customers think it was kinda pretentious of me to show up in a "BIG BUCKS" ride. Explained to him i built it from the ground up myself to DRIVE and take just as much pride in the construction work i would be doing for him....got the job!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Great story Instg8ter!

I will drive her as much as possible too... I owned her for less than one week and did over 400 miles before I brought her home from FL. 

I might take her to PA to get a hood for my truck project - if it iits in the truck. :lol:



Instg8ter said:


> I drive mine as much as i can get away with (in Michigan 4,000 miles in 3 years), with suspension and brakes up to snuff they drive like a caddy with a bad attitude. Often take it to estimates and contract signings on nice days. Had one customers think it was kinda pretentious of me to show up in a "BIG BUCKS" ride. Explained to him i built it from the ground up myself to DRIVE and take just as much pride in the construction work i would be doing for him....got the job!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hey guys, a question: I have a very nice brake pedal at idle in park but in drive it becomes much harder, does this mean I'm loosing vacuum to the booster in gear?


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

It sure sounds that way, how much do your rpm's drop when you go into gear?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Good question: some but I'll check - I have an auto so I don't have a tach.

Thanks. Dan



FlambeauHO said:


> It sure sounds that way, how much do your rpm's drop when you go into gear?


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Might be worth hooking up a vacuum gauge and seeing how much you lose when you put it into gear. Also, mine idles at 500 rpms in gear and runs smooth down there. I kicked the idle up to 700 and my vacuum signal improved. 

Put a tach and a vacuum gauge on it and do some tinkering.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Will do, thanks. I need to dig into Dad's box of old gauges and such, going back in time will be fun. 

I suspect I need to increase the idle, she "lopes" at stop lights. It seems counter intuitive but I know it's not.

Thanks for the help guys. Dan



chuckha62 said:


> Might be worth hooking up a vacuum gauge and seeing how much you lose when you put it into gear. Also, mine idles at 500 rpms in gear and runs smooth down there. I had too kick the idle up to 700 and my vacuum signal improved.
> 
> Put a tach and a vacuum gauge on it and do some tinkering.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Increasing the RPMs worked! 

My brake pedal is better but I'll probably take it up a notch more. I don't have an vacuum gauge after-all so I made the adjustment based on RPMs. I didn't use my RPM gauge either because the plug wires seem to be very brittle and I didn't want to pull on them because I know they will break - if they did it would have meant another project which I'm not ready for. The plugs are rusted in place too so I will do the full monte with wires and plugs later. I'm planning to soak the plugs overnight or for a couple days to ensure they come out without breaking or stripping anything. I'll get all my materials and gauges in hand before I start this project.

Now... I have a front brake chatter - after the brakes get hot. I didn't replace the front brake pads because they are new (from PO) so I'll remove the calipers, service them, scuff the pads and rotors and see if that fixes it. If not I'll replace the pads and have the rotors (they are new as well) turned/resurfaced.

I ordered front springs and some other parts yesterday... this is fun!!

more to come...


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

dan woodland said:


> Increasing the RPMs worked!
> 
> My brake pedal is better but I'll probably take it up a notch more. I don't have an vacuum gauge after-all so I made the adjustment based on RPMs. I didn't use my RPM gauge either because the plug wires seem to be very brittle and I didn't want to pull on them because I know they will break - if they did it would have meant another project which I'm not ready for. The plugs are rusted in place too so I will do the full monte with wires and plugs later. I'm planning to soak the plugs overnight or for a couple days to ensure they come out without breaking or stripping anything. I'll get all my materials and gauges in hand before I start this project.
> 
> ...


Whenever I install new pads, I use a coating on the backs of them to eliminate squeal, but I also saturate the pad surface with a product. I can't remember the name and I don't have it in front of me right now, as I'm at work, but it is specifically made for brake pads when you're installing them. 

If I remember later, I'll run out to the garage and get the info.

Chuck


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks chuckha62, that would be great.

I usually replace all the hardware (sliders, clips and pins) when I do them now... those parts don't last long here in Ohio winters (not that my GTO will ever see snow!!).



chuckha62 said:


> Whenever I install new pads, I use a coating on the backs of them to eliminate squeal, but I also saturate the pad surface with a product. I can't remember the name and I don't have it in front of me right now, as I'm at work, but it is specifically made for brake pads when you're installing them.
> 
> If I remember later, I'll run out to the garage and get the info.
> 
> Chuck


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Some fun stuff arrived today. Mrs. Dan bought these for our 27th anniversary. I'm trying them in both positions, I think I like the OEM orientation better.



These also came in...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well it appears I have successfully fixed the front brake chatter. I removed the pads, calipers and pins... The pads apepared to be glazed and had some "goo" on the outside edges.



The pins were a mess so I cleaned them up... never under estimate the power of a good wire wheel!



I scuffed the pads, you can see the scuffed pad on the left above. I also scuffed the rotors on both sides and sprayed everything down with brake cleaner.



I reassembled with some caliper lube in all the right places and took her for a ride...



Rain was threatening so I didn't take it on a long test drive so I won't know for sure untilI take it on a longer ride. So far so good!


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Excellent! I'm sorry I didn't get back to you about the coating. I got home on Thursday, packed and got out of town for the weekend


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

No sweat. I washed them with brake cleaner and scuffed them good. Appears to have worked. I need to take her out tonight for an extended ride because it might be one of the last times I can. They are predicting snow mid week!!! YUK!!!

Hey Chuckha62, when you get a chance please look for that coating information any way, for future reference. Thanks Dan



chuckha62 said:


> Excellent! I'm sorry I didn't get back to you about the coating. I got home on Thursday, packed and got out of town for the weekend


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Dan, The coating I've used is Anti Squeal by BG. It works well for me, but it sounds like your issue has pretty much been solved.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

chuckha62 said:


> Dan, The coating I've used is Anti Squeal by BG. It works well for me, but it sounds like your issue has pretty much been solved.


Unfortunately no. After an extended run tonight, 1.5 hours it started to chatter again on both sides. I may need more aggressive abrasion on the rotors. Since I'm going to park her for winter soon I'll do that when I take apart the front suspension to replace/upgrade the ball joints, bushings and springs.

I hate doing things twice but I'll know how to do it really well. 

Thanks for the information chuckha62. Dan


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## chuckha62 (Apr 5, 2010)

Damn. Try putting a significant bevel on the leading edge (the rear, actually) of each pad and see if that helps. You won't effect your braking effectiveness, but it should take care of the chatter.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, recommend turning the rotors - or replacing if you have already achieved minimum thickness. You should do this every time you install new pads. Also, is the guide pin in the picture bent? I agree with Chuckha about replacing hardware. A little grease on the guide pins where they make contact would be good as well. And what type of pads did you get - organic, semi metallic, ceramic? I've had very good luck with ceramic, but they do wear rotors a little quicker. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, recommend turning the rotors - or replacing if you have already achieved minimum thickness. You should do this every time you install new pads. Also, is the guide pin in the picture bent? I agree with Chuckha about replacing hardware. A little grease on the guide pins where they make contact would be good as well. And what type of pads did you get - organic, semi metallic, ceramic? I've had very good luck with ceramic, but they do wear rotors a little quicker. Matt


You are correct Matthew, that pin is bent - I usually replace those and any slides glides or clips but I didn't have them on me at the time - never thinking those would be bent. :confused I will be going to Summit Racing on the way home tonight or tomorrow. Knowing about the condition these brakes were in when I test drove the car makes me shutter at what could have happened had I let her loose then or at home after receiving her.  One thing is for sure, she will never be in that bad of shape again!

It looks to me like these pads are full on Organic, I was thinking last night they might be the wrong pads or they are full Organic - which I've NEVER had any luck with. I will get either semi-metalic or ceramic and new pins.

The ONLY reason I reused the pads was because they were "new" from the PO - rotors are new as well with almost no wear indicated but they are "blued" which makes me think the pads are not the right ones for this application (organic or not). Rotors heat up, pads get sticky, pads shutter... At least I know the calipers are working correctly.

Bottom line - I should have just stripped the entire car of anything brake related and replaced it... Another automotive maintenance lesson.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, you probably know this, but a bent guide pin can cause the caliper to bind. Not saying that is your chattering problem. Now, since you are doing baseline maintenance, pulling the rotors to have them turned will give you a chance to check and repack your inner and outer bearings. You need new seals when you do this - do not reuse the old ones even if they look good. You probably have done all of this before. Too much fun. Matt


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Great suggestions Mathew...an ounce of prevention and all that, really hate doing things twice too.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, you probably know this, but a bent guide pin can cause the caliper to bind. Not saying that is your chattering problem. Now, since you are doing baseline maintenance, pulling the rotors to have them turned will give you a chance to check and repack your inner and outer bearings. You need new seals when you do this - do not reuse the old ones even if they look good. You probably have done all of this before. Too much fun. Matt





Instg8ter said:


> Great suggestions Mathew...an ounce of prevention and all that, really hate doing things twice too.


You got it guys!! Yes, I know it would bind with the bent pin. Unfortunately I didn't have the goods I do now. Tonight I bought the pads, pins and guides.







My setup didn't have the anti-rattle clips so that will be a new addition/improvement.

Yes, I planed to replace all the seals and bearings at the same time I did rotors although I wasn't planning on it just yet. That being said, this latest turn of events has forced my hand... I will be parking her next week (after I store my truck) and start the disassembly... this will include the steering gear too.

In the end, because I no longer have confidence in the parts currently on the car I will be doing the front coil springs, ball joints (upper and lower), control and A-arm bushings (upper and lower), brake pads, brake hardware, guide pins, bearings and seals and anything else I can on the front end. Oh, and I will rebuild the calipers too. Let the carnage begin!

Thanks for the suggestions/info guys!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, sounds like a lot of fun. Just something to think about... the cost of a remanufactured caliper is about $35 I think. Of course, then someone else experiences the joy of rebuilding your caliper. Sounds like your wife has given you more shop time than mine. All good. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea, since she'll be down for 6 months I'm in no hurry now. I've never rebuilt a caliper and the idea of this car was to experience all those things I watched or back then "helped" Dad do when I was a kid. Besides, as you mantioned if I screw it up I can get remans for relatively low cost.

By the way, your ride is my all-time favorite color. When it comes time to paint mine it will be a tough decision to stay with black or go with a color change to Verdoro Green.

I bet that refreshed HO engine is a kick to drive too!

Dan



Matthew said:


> Dan, sounds like a lot of fun. Just something to think about... the cost of a remanufactured caliper is about $35 I think. Of course, then someone else experiences the joy of rebuilding your caliper. Sounds like your wife has given you more shop time than mine. All good. Matt


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, thanks. The 68 has been a lot of fun. Looking to get another project now. A 66 or 67 is in my future. Have convinced my wife I will need one for each of my grandchildren. Have three of those so far, so I need to pick up the pace. Regards, Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I like the 65 GTO so some day I might just have to get one. 



Matthew said:


> Dan, thanks. The 68 has been a lot of fun. Looking to get another project now. A 66 or 67 is in my future. Have convinced my wife I will need one for each of my grandchildren. Have three of those so far, so I need to pick up the pace. Regards, Matt


I think she is telling me not to move her any more… I needed to clean out the garage tonight for my electrician to install my upgrades in the garage…220/Heater - the dash lights went out and the horn started blowing on it's own.

So… I guess it's time to put her away for the winter… and start on my repair list. This isn't all inclusive but you get the idea.

*Some things I need to do (mechanical).*
Rear differential seal 
Rear diff oil (open to find out what gearing I have)
Trans filter
Entire front end suspension bits (bushings, ball joints, springs etc)
Front shocks
Steering gear
Replace all vacuum lines (still have a hard brake pedal in gear)
Replace front pads
Turn rotors
Radiator support bushings
Body bushings
Rear suspension bushings
Spark Plugs
Plug wires
Repair/Replace horns (nearly inoperable)
Repair lower trans cover (weld tear)

*Interior and appearance:*
Replace all seat foam
Replace all broken air vents
Repair/Replace Air system components 
Dash lights (fuse/short)?
Remove/Repair/Clean/Reinstall entire dash and all components (paint while disassembled)
Replace dash "wood" Driver side and center (radio portion) don't match)
Replace radio (with old or factory look-a-like)
Repair steering wheel button assembly (appears bent)
Fix any interior issues


I've done everything above at least once with exception of the list below.

*Questions for you guys:*

Rear differential seal 
I assume this is like a wheel bearing inner seal, remove the drive shaft and lock nut then pry out the seal and reinstall a new one?

Rear trans seal
I assume I can do this one at the same time I remove the drive shaft for the rear diff seal. Can it be replaced without removing the trans or any other parts?

Spark Plugs (Done this but not rusted plugs)
These are rusted in place - badly. What method do you guys use to free and remove them?

Repair/Replace Air system components 
Some parts are falling off in various place or are broken... I also know front the defroster vent "pipe/hose" is badly deteriorated. Do date I've not been able to find one. Does anyone have a source for under dash components? These cars don't she up at bone yards around here and none of the "new" parts houses" don't have them.

Below is a picture of a similar piece form anther vehicle. This is the piece that air blows on to the front windshield. Part number is 9793821.





Interior question: is there a window lace trim that goes across the entire lower back window at the rear tray?

Of course if anyone has pointers or advice on anything I've listed above or anything else I'm in for while working on her this winter I would greatly appreciate it!!!:cheers


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

After two months on IR (back injury) I finally got to my ever growing list of things to do on my GTO. This list grew so quickly it became overwhelming fairly quickly.

Keeping the big picture in mind I choose to address the steering gear issues. I had a ton of play in the steering wheel and it leaked, a lot.

It's a relatively straight forward job but there were a couple things I encountered. 

First I didn't have a large enough socket or wrench to remove the steering gear nut so I stopped at local tool resale shop and bought a 1 5/16th 18 inch long box wrench for a few dollars - a Tim Allen tool Oh Oh Oh. Then I didn't have a Pitman Arm puller so I rented one from a local parts store (you actually buy it and return it when you are done), used the tool and returned it 15 minutes later (literally). Next the fitting on the back of the power steering pump was seized (not sure how as it was a California and Florida car) so I removed the steering gear end of the high pressure line and threaded a 1in box wrench down the line and held the larger nut in please while I loosened the 5/8ths flare fitting.

The old setup…



How I held the fitting nut in place while removing the flare nut.



Here is the fitting that was seized.



To keep debris out of the pump I used a brake line cap to cover the low pressure return hard line end.



I hate these clamps because I always get cut by the "tail" so I used high pressure clamps instead.



Amazing how oil and fluids get every where! What a mess!!



Pitman Arm released… again you can see the PS fluid went everywhere.



A seemingly common issue, getting the right parts. I had to reorder the high pressure hose. As you can see the bend was not sharp enough on the first line I received.



While I had the steering gear out I replaced the two fuel lines and clamps here… it was easier to do with the gear out of the way. This was no my final setup as I had to shorten the 3/8th hose to make clearance for the steering gear.



I found some damage on the power steering pulley… when I rebuild the engine, long in the future since it only has 67K on it, I'll address this.

[/URL

Ten picture limit…


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The new steering gear - nearly 30 lbs.



The new setup…



Here is where the steering gear connects to the "rag joint" (steering shaft).




As I mentioned, pretty simple job. Remove these three bolts (on the driverside frame rail) after you release the rag joint nut above, pop the pitman arm, then wiggle it free from the rag joint connection while holding a 30 pound part above your head. To remove it you simply turn it and drop it over the stabilized bar.



Some notes:
There is no need to remove the right front wheel for this job. I lifted the entire front end with a jack and placed two 6K pound jack stands. There is plenty of room to work. I love working on these old boats!

After installing the new steering gear and hoses fill the power steering pump reservoir with new fluid - my old fluid was in good shape so I didn't worry about flushing the pump with new fluid. Start the engine (I left the car jacked up to allow easy back and forth movement of the wheels) then slowly turn the steering wheel left then right a bit at a time. I stopped at one full revolution and refilled the PS pump reservoir . Eventually I got to turing it from stop to stop. Be sure to do it slowly so the PS fluid does not foam - ensuring you refill the reservoir at each revolution helps.

After checking for leaks I topped off the PS reservoir and lowered the car a bit then rotated the wheel from stop to stop then lowered the car a bit more creating more contact with the garage floor. I did this until finally I let the car down all the way and did the same test. It works perfectly and I have no leaks.

The outside temps were in the 60s this weekend so it made it much easier to work today - dropping to 30 tomorrow. I'm not sure what job I'll tackle next but I'll post here when I do - I have a truck full of parts so I have a good list to work on. 


Thanks for watching the GTO restoration network. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I forgot to show you my new funnel. I didn't have a good small funnel to fit into the power steering pump fill tube so i made one from a piece of paper and duct tape.

All you do is make a cone and tape it in place. 



You can trim the opening to the exact size you need and fill er up! it won't last long but it will last plenty long enough to get the job done.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Long story short... this is what a full transmission rebuild looks like on a 69 GTO...





It started leaking shortly after I bought it but this is what I found on my drain pan after the last ride Saturday... dropped it off at the trans shop Monday... Saw today that EVERY seals is leaking. They suspect the torque converter shaft seal is bad too, I hope it didn't damage the converter. They will take it apart tomorrow to see if the bands and pump are good. At the moment I'm fighting the urge to sell ... Time for a bottle of Rum.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, glad you are back off the injured reserve. What ever that is on the drip pan could not have come out of your transmission. Is that floor dry mixed with trans fluid? Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, glad you are back off the injured reserve. What ever that is on the drip pan could not have come out of your transmission. Is that floor dry mixed with trans fluid? Matt


Hey Matt, 

Yea, that is kitty litter. I wasn't having any shifting issues but I'm not used to leaks that heavy - I know gaskets are probably 45 years old but it was a surprised to see that much at one time. When the trans guy showed me the underside of the transmission/car I could see each and every point it's leaking.

This fix will put my interior refresh on hold.

I have all the front end parts, less control arm bushings, so when I get her back I'll start on the front end.

I'm off the roof for now so I'll post more as I go.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, right, it's just money. No sense in have a bunch of that laying around. Control arm bushings can be a lot of fun too. Sounds like you are pretty serious about this car. All good. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, right, it's just money. No sense in have a bunch of that laying around. Control arm bushings can be a lot of fun too. Sounds like you are pretty serious about this car. All good. Matt


Yea, sorry... nothing has gone right this last couple weeks. 70 hours at work, two other cars "breaking" and little sleep finally got to me...  Time to put my big boy pants back on :cryin:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got a review today of the trans, definitely leaking everywhere so they are taking it apart for a reseal and inspection. I'll find out more Monday... because they will have it out of the car and I have other driveline work I'll have them look at the rear diff leak and drive shaft too - as you said Matt it's only money. :lol:


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan do not give up on this project. The car looks great and we all face set backs. Just think, at least the body looks nice and solid as you state, and we both know all too well the effects of the salty roads of the rust belt where we come from.

I expect to see this beast on Woodward this summer!

Anthony

PS

you are getting sleepy.........you will paint this car black......and forget abut vedoro green.......they are far too common....

Hey I couldn't resist! :reddevil:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*You don't know what you don't know...*

:lol: Thanks Nightshade. 

No worries, i'm back driving the bus on this one. I picked her up from the trans shop today. She has a full rebuild and boy did she needed it. I'm going to put this one under the heading above. 

And don't worry, I'll keep her black. I love the green but the black on white has grown on me. 



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan do not give up on this project. The car looks great and we all face set backs. Just think, at least the body looks nice and solid as you state, and we both know all too well the effects of the salty roads of the rust belt where we come from.
> 
> I expect to see this beast on Woodward this summer!
> 
> ...


When I drove the car there was a high pitched sound, kind of like when you drill into steel and don't use some kind of lube. It turns out it was this.








[/URL][/IMG]

Apparently this wasn't the only problem. There were only two bolts left holding the fly wheel to the torque converter and they look like they are not the proper type. All the others were sheered off. Notice how soft the one looks.



This centering piece was broken off floppy around inside the bell housing.



The forward and reverse bands were burned...



Trans mount was nonexistent...



and all the bands were flaking off...





Sliding your finger across the bands is like doing it on sandpaper.

More to come... picture and smilie limit...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I took her for a ride to break in the rebuilt transmission.



I left a little rubber all over town - this was in the driveway. :lol: I couldn't do that before, I thought it was because the engine was tired or the new BF Goodrich tires were too sticky. Not any more. 

I got on the highway and hit it, she took off like a bat out of hell. I was at 90 before I knew it. The high pitch sound is gone and it shifted so smoothly I almost couldn't tell. I guess the engine was not working so hard to turn the gear which was being "turned/milled". She seems a bit pokey before but now she goes much much better!

Another benefit of the "freed up" HP, the brakes are working better with the increased vacuum.

Long story short, money well spent and I'm very happy. :smile2:

Today I also learned my rear differential leak is actually the tube connections at the housing the pinion seal was dry when the trans shop removed the drive shaft. I'll address that later this month when I tear down the front suspension.

More to come.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, good news for sure. Oh, and Anthony the Verdorophobic knows not what he says. I do like the black on white. Matt


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan do not give up on this project. The car looks great and we all face set backs. Just think, at least the body looks nice and solid as you state, and we both know all too well the effects of the salty roads of the rust belt where we come from.
> 
> I expect to see this beast on Woodward this summer!
> 
> ...


Gonna have to try and meet up with some members this year at Woodward, we were working in Birmingham today right by Hunter House, their mobile trailer with a pic of all the hotrods in front had me thinking about the Cruise...need to get my dual quads in and tuned by then. I got nothing done this winter with the weather...:banghead:


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan,

I am glad you got your trans in order, that was in bad condition and looked like a former hack job! Glad it is running so good now, hey good thing you resurfaced the pavement with rubber, makes the roads safer.

I have yet to drive mine, in fact only my long dead husky got to ride in it as I pushed it to the garage!

I'll def be at woodward, been going since 2010. I walk where Mopar has the big lot by the gas station, with the ballfields nearby on the side where GM has its tent.

Hey Matt, my poor car is currently General Lee Orange...YUCK! spraybombed no less. :00/o:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan,
> 
> I am glad you got your trans in order, that was in bad condition and looked like a former hack job! Glad it is running so good now, hey good thing you resurfaced the pavement with rubber, makes the roads safer.
> 
> ...


Thanks nightshade. I can't believe the difference... Dream Cruise is in mid-August. I just might be able to pull that off.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, glad you have gotten past the notion of throwing in the towel on that beauty. Anthony, orange is good too - check out Alky's GTO. Now, spray bombed... hmmm. All good. Matt


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Matthew said:


> Dan, glad you have gotten past the notion of throwing in the towel on that beauty. Anthony, orange is good too - check out Alky's GTO. Now, spray bombed... hmmm. All good. Matt


I didn't do it! It was the WWII Veteran prior owner, who drove a 71 GTO into his 70's btw, who did it! Um Orbit orange is a nice shade or orange.

Any updates Dan?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

As a matter fact there is...

Project STOP LEAK is well under way. Last week it was the Transmission, this week it's the axel tubes.

I met a guy that got ahold of some Aviation Sealer. So that is what I used. It's a two part epoxy type.



I should have taken a before and after but here is the during cleaning.



You take this black "plunger" and push the black goo into the white goo then use this to mix it with a drill. The special tool is used to spin the propeller inside and mix the goo... This stuff gets hot!!!









Use gloves, this sh!t is really sticky!!

Before mixing...



After...



I really hope this is not another problem. See how it "looks" like the axel tube is not pressed into the rear end housing all the way? Is this normal or do I have a bigger problem with the axel tubes coming apart?



This looks like it's been in this position for a while...



Picture limits suck...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

and the rest...

I didn't know this but these are the weld spots holding the tube in, I hope.



I cleaned up the joints really well with brake cleaner and a wire brush. You can see where the gear oil was seeping out at the joint.



I had to unhook the brake line from the axel tube to get into the joint on top.



This stuff is fairly hard to control so before I paint over it I'll clean it up with a sharp knife after if fully cures. This stuff is so sticky it won't even submit to the silicone application trick of using a wet finger (with gloves on) to smooth it. it sticks right through the water.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Dan, I'd keep an eye on those axle tubes after you start driving the car again. Sure looked to me like they had become "unseated" and were working there way out of the center section. Now, that is just what it "looks" like to me and I dont' have a housing here to compare it too so I might be out of line.

I put a 12 bolt C type rear in my GTO and had the axle tubes completely perimeter welded to the center in a jig to keep them straight.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, I hope you are wrong. If they move from this point forward I will know now. It's a 69 GP rear end so replacing it won't be a problem - I don't want to but I am willing if need be. Both sides were exactly the same so I wonder if the rear end was "rebuilt/built" that way.



ALKYGTO said:


> Dan, I'd keep an eye on those axle tubes after you start driving the car again. Sure looked to me like they had become "unseated" and were working there way out of the center section. Now, that is just what it "looks" like to me and I dont' have a housing here to compare it too so I might be out of line.
> 
> I put a 12 bolt C type rear in my GTO and had the axle tubes completely perimeter welded to the center in a jig to keep them straight.


If I do fix/replace it I will have the same thing done that you did.

Hopefully someone else can chime in here regarding the axle tubes.

Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Project Front Suspension refresh is on...

I have a lot of cleaning to do under here after I get things dismantled. There is grease everywhere!





I will be replacing everything including tie rods, ball joints, springs, bushings and shocks.

I put some rubber pieces in the driver side spring ala NASCAR to help with the "lean". It helped but obviously didn't do what ultimately needed to be done.



Tie rods look newer but they are "floppy" so they go too.



I'll be replacing the brake pads, caliper pins and I have a kit for these collars and all front brake hardware. The calipers don't leak and seem to be working correctly.



Tied up the caliper...



I inherited several spools of this stainless wire... it comes in handy.



Upper control arm off... 


I THINK I need new bump stops... :lol:



Photo limit... damn...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

more suspension...

Grease looked good/new but the spindle was rusty... the rear seal seems to be bad. I didn't check the bearings for wear or heat yet but I'm replacing those along with the seals too.





I got everything off but the springs and lower control arms. I ran out of time and had trouble finding the proper spring compressor locally. I'll order parts tomorrow after I finish removing all the control arms and springs. I plan to be done next weekend provide parts arrive in time.

After this is the interior refresh (Mrs Dans' idea), address the engine leak(s) as the last step to project Stop Leak and drive her!!!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, sending you a PM. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got it Matt, thanks. I appreciate it. Dan



Matthew said:


> Dan, sending you a PM. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I should have mentioned a couple posts ago about the dangers of removing a spring from a car. I nearly always forget everyone doesn't know everything about cars. Not that I'm a pro or a super duper mechanic but I am self taught. I learned how to do a lot from my Dad's teachings and that includes how to teach yourself how to do things. That being said... always always always use jack stands when you raise a car. 

I go one step further when possible, like for the this suspension project, leaving my large 3.5 ton jack under the car as a safety net. Also remember to lower the car on to the jack stands. A dropping car is no match for a jack sand, even a ten ton rated jack stand.

Here is a bad picture but you get the idea... I use this "small" 2 ton jack to compress a spring or keep a spring compressed. I also used this jack to help remove the sway bar end links.



Here is my passenger side bump stop.... oops.


And here is the pair... 



I had a hard time finding a spring compressor that would work as promised so I took apart the one I found was closeted to what I needed and "put it back together" inside the spring.

This picture is for illustration only, I know the bottom hooks are upside down.





I love working on cars from anywhere that doesn't use road salt!!! The wet spots are from penatrant.



Looks like someone butchered the driverside upper control arm replacing the bushings...



No I know wheyI don't do sand blasting at home... You need a professional setup. My "little" 30 gallon compressor can't keep up.



Everything is out, now to start cleaning and order the bushings and bumpers. The control arm bushings actually look pretty good but since I am replacing everything else it makes sense to replace them too.



Photo limit imposed...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Now I know why the front end seemed "weird" at times. I would have unexplained direction changes while moving... and this might help under stand why. (it's much better than before after the steering gear replacement and why I'm doing this suspension update) 



Three of four upper control arm bolts were like this, not as bad as this one but bad none the less. This is exactly how it came out of the car and why I waited to buy the control arms parts until I had it apart.

I simply don't understand someone not tightening EVERY bolt to spec!!!! :banghead:

This car will NOT be back on the road until I check each and every bolt that may end me if it fails!!

If it weren't for my previous project vehicle teaching me to be patient when I run into issues I shouldn't (created under the previous owners watch by them, a mechanic or time) I would have ditched this car because it has turned out not to be the car I thought I bought.

That being said, I WILL turn it into the car I thought I bought.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

That is the one thing about doing your own car, you can have confidence that everything is done to spec. Changed oil this weekend and re-checked everything on the front end while it was up. After the first few thousand miles, aside from a few pumps of grease and cleaning up some road grime she was still tight as a drum. 

Nice work Dan, things are never what they seem with these old cars. Your doing the right thing by replacing whats needed systematically and it will pay off in the long run with a tight safe solid car like the day it drove out of the factory.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, you said it, nothing like doing it yourself.  I always have to remind myself it's never over until it's over... and we all know a project car is never really "done". :lol:



Instg8ter said:


> That is the one thing about doing your own car, you can have confidence that everything is done to spec. Changed oil this weekend and re-checked everything on the front end while it was up. After the first few thousand miles, aside from a few pumps of grease and cleaning up some road grime she was still tight as a drum.
> 
> Nice work Dan, things are never what they seem with these old cars. Your doing the right thing by replacing whats needed systematically and it will pay off in the long run with a tight safe solid car like the day it drove out of the factory.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Having trouble finding the proper tools or place to press in/out the bushings. I think I found a guy today. I have to call tomorrow.

I tried using the Auto Store loaner tools but they don't fit the ball joints and they don't do the bushings... Hopefully this guy works out, amazing how when you need something no one can do it and apparently the GTO control arm bushings are especially scary for some shops here. I may guid my own jigs and do it myself...

I decided to have the old bushings removed then clean and paint the controls arms before installing the new ones, may as all while I have them out. I'm also going to do the park plugs and wires too since now I have lots of clearance with the wheels and suspension off and she's riding on a cushion of air. 

I also decided to start the Judge Clone reversal process... Luckily I only need to remove all the stickers and find some complete hood scoops. Mine are cut out for the poor mans Ram Air system which is basically two holes in the hood and let air and dirt blow all over the engine bay. The Ram Air hood stickers will be the trickiest to get off and the body stickers will take the longest... I already removed the spoiler sticker so I know these stickers are pretty tough but once you get an edge they come off pretty easily. I'm using an 3M sticker eraser, it works pretty slick... next time I'll need to remember to scuff the wheel if it's not been used for a while, that makes it sticky and works much better...

In August there is the Ames Performance Pontiac Tri-Power Nationals at the Summit Racing Drag park near my home. Every restoration company and lots of local vendors all be in attendance. Last year there were lots of complete scoops, hopeful there will be more this year. Also looking for some other parts but I'll probably need to get new. Last year you could get a 10% discount an free shipping if you ordered at the show. I'll probably order my interior then.

Because I hate pictureless posts...



Time for the sack, 5 am comes early.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got out of work at a regular time today...

I removed all the rubber from the bushings in the control arms and lower ball joints today... funny I've read others having so much trouble removing the lower ball joints but it literally only took three or four 3lb sledge hits to remove them. Tomorrow I'll try getting the sleeves out of the control arms then I need to decide if I will get them powder coated or hit them with spray paint. Because I'm not doing a concourse restore, my GTO is not all original, I'm more concerned with protecting the parts from rust and such. That being said I am using correct parts where it matters - in the interior etc.

The bushings were bad (hard) and a few of the inner bushing sleeves were "burned".

I started to clean the control arms but the grease is so thick even engine degreaser didn't make a dent. It softened it but I'm going to need to use some elbow grease and a wire brush to get it all off - it might even be under coating but because of all the oil leaks I'm betting it is built up of grade and gunk over the years.

I didn't snap any pics, I'm sure you've all seen old bushings and sleeves.

Because I hate pictureless posts...



more to come...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan when I did mine the air chisel left me with a huge headache....Tough job, best to have a press handy to aid with block of wood to avoid bending the arms upon installation.

Great progress so far! I am a fan of the de-robing of the judge it will look great with the stickers off.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Nightshade... After I get them all clean and painted I'll have the new ones pressed in at a local shop up the road (they offered to do them for me). The owner has 50 or 60 classic cars so I know he'll do the work correctly.



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan when I did mine the air chisel left me with a huge headache....Tough job, best to have a press handy to aid with block of wood to avoid bending the arms upon installation.
> 
> Great progress so far! I am a fan of the de-robing of the judge it will look great with the stickers off.


It took me about 30 minutes to remove all the bushings! I removed the rubber the other day using a screw driver to pry them out. Last night I cut the bushing sleeves in half then scored them with a sawzall then used a hammer and chisel to collapse the sleeves and pulled them out. The upper control arms were a bit tougher so I cut/scored the outside ring with an pneumatic cutting wheel - a few taps with a hammer and they were out!

Tonight I'll start soaking the parts in my secret rust dissolving solution, leave them for a couple days then clean and paint.


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## Orion88 (Apr 24, 2012)

Since you have your control arms already out of the car and disassembled, why not replace them with tubular control arms? They already have new ball joints, bump stops, sway bar end links, etc and they make a world of difference in the handling. And you don't have to pay $1000 a set. There are some very reasonable ones on Ebay.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I thought about that Orion88 but even though it's not all original I do want to keep her "stock". She won't be driven all that much after I'm done and with all new parts she'll ride pretty good - like new even. 

Hey guys, a question before I proceed. 

The center link ENDS appear to be in good shape (meaning it appears tight when torquing on it), save the "seals" (can I get just those?). Since I have the center link off the car should I replace it too? I am replacing everything else on the front end so am I at the "while I'm in there" state???

Thanks, Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Some cleanup work... Before...



Soaking in the secret sauce...



After 12 hours the rust is starting to flake off...



More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I used a mortar tub and placed some large bottles to take up volume so I didn't have to use so much special juice.





Before...



After...



Some times the sauce leaves a discolored look but comes off easy with a chore boy and some simple green.

For stubborn spots I fired up the air compressor and blasted those spots.

The upper control arms turned out much better... Wholly hell, did someone use an axe on these things?





One more lower control arm to go tomorrow then, paint. Oh, and I'm rehabbing the pitman arm and tie rod adjustment sleeves.

I ordered a new Idler and Center Link last night... There will be nothing old under the front when I'm done! :thumbsup:

More to come...


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Dan, nice job on cleaning the control arms up. Are you painting them or planning on powdercoating them? I powder coated all my suspension pieces including the rear end housing and they still look great after 15 years and many miles. 

On the second control arm with the "damage", I would clean all that up smooth and determine how deep those gouges are, they could be stress areas and more prone to crack. You might consider replacing that control arm, they are not that hard to find.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I thought I'd get them coated at first then thought I'd try it myself... I did paint them but I don't like how they turned out so I'll stop tomorrow morning to see what my local powder coater will charge.



ALKYGTO said:


> Dan, nice job on cleaning the control arms up. Are you painting them or planning on powdercoating them? I powder coated all my suspension pieces including the rear end housing and they still look great after 15 years and many miles.
> 
> On the second control arm with the "damage", I would clean all that up smooth and determine how deep those gouges are, they could be stress areas and more prone to crack. You might consider replacing that control arm, they are not that hard to find.


Good point, didn't think of that.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

These parts were so covered with grease, literally a quarter inch in places, it actually preserved the inspection marks.







I decided to disassemble everything, clean it, then get it all powder coated. These are all original parts and replacing them isn't cheap or necessary. I may recreate the inspection marks but since she is not all original I don't know if there is an advantage to that or not.

I wasn't happy with how these turned out and I'm not so sure it would last...







I ordered new spindle lock nuts, tie rod adjustment sleeve assemblies, and spindle gaskets.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:banghead:

Still waiting, impatiently, for parts to be painted...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Sorry for delay in response. Been busy at work. Great job, I too use a secret um not so secret sauce to clean up my metal. How deep were those gouges? I would want to replace that one arm due to cracking potential just as Allky said.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Sorry for delay in response. Been busy at work. Great job, I too use a secret um not so secret sauce to clean up my metal. How deep were those gouges? I would want to replace that one arm due to cracking potential just as Allky said.


No problem, not much action here anyway... three Powder coaters, lots of work and a dislocated ankle later I painted all the parts myself with POR 15 and a top coat. As for the powered coaters, one just sat on the parts, cleaned them then just sat on them for three weeks... I arrived on the third promised due date and took them back when they weren't done, at least they were cleaned (they didn't chase me down for cleaning $ - not surprised)... second and third PCers tried to rip me off, one telling me I needed special flexible paint on everything not just the springs (only on the springs makes sense), the other seemed to think I was desperate or didn't want the job. Anyway, I found another place to do the springs and dropped the control arms off to get bushings pressed in (I can't stand for too long on the damned ankle).

With the economy in Ohio still not doing so well I'm shocked I can't find reliable cost effective services - maybe that's what the economy is still in the crapper here. I'd think they would be more than happy to get the work.

More to come after I'm off the DL.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Sorry about your injury. I did the same to my arms, and as long as you clean and prep properly, that covering should last...just sucks when you get it on your skin!

I do not get people either, you would figure they want your business. I still need to get a compressor and then the sparks will fly for my 68. Going to Woodward? I am


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Here we go again... called for my bushings and control arms yesterday, they were supposed to be done Friday, and I was told he wouldn't get to them for another three weeks - INCREDIBLE!

Looks like I'll be doing this myself too. I put the bushings in the freezer... so now to find a press or rig up my own...

No, no Woodward for me this year. Between the injury and the car being delayed again and again I'm not making any plans until she's done - still have to address the possible axel housing issues.



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Sorry about your injury. I did the same to my arms, and as long as you clean and prep properly, that covering should last...just sucks when you get it on your skin!
> 
> I do not get people either, you would figure they want your business. I still need to get a compressor and then the sparks will fly for my 68. Going to Woodward? I am


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Here we go again... called for my bushings and control arms yesterday, they were supposed to be done Friday, and I was told he wouldn't get to them for another three weeks - INCREDIBLE!
> 
> Looks like I'll be doing this myself too. I put the bushings in the freezer... so now to find a press or rig up my own...
> 
> No, no Woodward for me this year. Between the injury and the car being delayed again and again I'm not making any plans until she's done - still have to address the possible axel housing issues.


Damn dude,

I would suggest using a press, place a sturdy block of wood between the control arm sides otherwise you most likely will bend the control arm as you attempt to press the bushing in....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Everything is cleaned, primed and painted now (between icing the knee and ankle)... I used POR 15 as the base coat and topped it with a satin black Rustoleum. Part on the right is post straight vinegar soak (6%) and the one on the left, post sand blasting/pre paint. 



Before I started working on them...



I set up an assembly line on my back patio, this way I didn't have to open, close and reopen the POR 15 can.



Because of my "getting someone else to do my bushings woes" I resorted to the old fashion way of installing bushings - a hammer and socket. I even tried getting a 20T press from Harbor Freight but they seemed to never have the one I wanted in stock.





A little grease and freezing the bushings made it easier that I expected. The lower control arm bushings didn't "line-up" perfectly inbetween the holes from one side to the other but with a little patience they went in as needed.



The paint held up remarkably well during the bushing install. Next, more ice, installing the lower ball joints and installation of all the new suspension parts.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Memmmm---reeeees...... 

Glad to see you're making progress!


Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Memmmm---reeeees......
> 
> Glad to see you're making progress!
> 
> ...


LOL Slow but sure...for sure!!! Thanks Bear.

Found a shop press tonight, I'll pick it up tomorrow. 

I started putting parts back together...





Thanks Nightshade 68 HO... I got all the bushings in using my vise and a persuader. :smile2:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

A bit more progress today... Called all over the state of Ohio for two weeks and finally found a 20 Ton press an hour from home... 







I used a 2" steel pipe coupler, a 2.5" bench block and the press... Amazing how the right tools equal a 5 minute job to install the two lower ball joints.



I also found old bearing races are good for pressing in parts as well.



Ball joints in, bump stops installed, and ball joint caps installed. I actually had to press the caps on, they are very tight... obviously to keep out the water.





All the subassemblies are ready...



I left the inspection paint on the spindles... I need to get some additional lock nuts. Somehow I short ordered those.



Next is the bearings, seals and turn the rotors...



Then reassemble everything including new springs, shocks, tie rods, adjusting sleeves, idler arm, center link, and all brake hardware and pads!!!

The future looks busy too...

Two weeks ago I braved a tornado laden area to order the interior and more parts at the Pontiac Nationals at the local drag strip. Most is on the way already, the fabric parts need to be made so that will be some time but I'll have everything else done when it arrives - hopefully.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Looking good Dan! Nice you post all your progress with photos.

As a machinist, I gotta laugh at the "steel bench block" box listed as "jewelry" :suspicious: and the price of $12. You could probably buy about 2 ft of 2.5"x3/4" steel for that at a metal supply house. We usually call that "off fall" and throw it away. I can understand though that not everyone has access to material and you've got to do what you've got to do.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Alky... I figure pictures are worth a thousand words and I hate picture less posts. 

Yea, I know that was the plan (I figured I'd use a piece of scrap pipe in place of he coupler) and I probably could have gotten a whole slab of steel for near noting but my time was worth the $12. Instead of having to track it down through a friend of a friend, find a shop willing to give it away etc... plus with all my difficulty finding tools or people to "help" with the car I figured $12 was cheap in he end... in the end I got the job done. 

Keeping in the no picture less posts theme ... I've found a ton of stuff to replace/return to stock... this among other parts is due to arrive tomorrow!!!



Top hose is close to failing too... more to come.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

More progress today... 

I have nearly finished the driver-side suspension and brake restore.

It appears the inner bearings were never done. They looked like hey were caked in mud not grease.



Only the outer bearings were replaced at some time - the one inner bearing was so warn it nearly wouldn't spin... both races were very dark so they are being replaced as well during my restore. Had I known the condition of the mechanicals on this car were this bad I would have done this last year.



These are the old bits from the driver-side caliper - no wonder they were sticking... I also replaced the pads, guide pins (mine were bent), these parts, and o-rings.



All done... just need to reinstall the shims and torque the lower control arms. The shop manual says to use 80fp for the nut and 110fp for the bolt. It can't be both... someone here know which is correct?



The spring was a bit tricky to compress. Apparently the Cercoat paint is very "slippery" so the spring compressor had to be set just right otherwise it would "spin-out" and not hold. 

Hopefully tomorrow I'll button up this side and get the passenger side done - it shouldn't take ask long because I understand how to do some things now; add an alignment and she'll be back on the road soon.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Apparently I was the blind squirrel which found the nut when I got the first spring installed yesterday. Today it was impossible to stop the spring compressor from spinning out as I tightened it. I contemplated roughing up the spring surface or the tool hooks but why waste all that money getting powder coated to damage the finish or damaging a tool I was going to return (parts store loaner - this thing is in bad shape).

Since my problem was "slippage", I didn't want to damage the part or tool but I needed it installed today I thought of a pad of rubber I've used for other projects...

I cut small pieces of rubber front the rubber pad and zip tied them to the compressor hooks. I gave it a trial run and much to my delight is worked!!! I also figured out the hook sets had to be set apposed to each other 45 degrees. This helped keep he compressor lineup in the center of the spring as well.



I know because the spring when compressed is like a missile on standby with a hair-trigger I slowly increased the tension while monitoring for any slipping. I also left it compressed for some time to see if it moved on it's own. It never budged so I installed it with little issues.



This was a very productive weekend... amazing how much you can get done with two good legs. 

Next, I'll install the passenger-side hub (with new bearings and races), brakes (with all new hardware and pads) and sway bar (with new end links) then put her on the ground tighten the upper and lower control arms and take her for an alignment (I may try doing the old fashion string alignment first  ).


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, recommend you turn (resurface) those rotors. You've done some great work - just as well have a clean and straight braking surface. I know... why didn't I suggest that before you put the assembly back together? Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, recommend you turn (resurface) those rotors. You've done some great work - just as well have a clean and straight braking surface. I know... why didn't I suggest that before you put the assembly back together? Matt


Hey Matt,

I thought about that, a lot, but the incredible trouble I've had trying to find local shops to do work makes me leary to say the least. For example, I have to take the car back to the transmission shop because it's leaking again. As another example, the last set of rotors I had turned were screwed up (turned too far - I guess the concept of "resurfacing" was foreign to them), it took me weeks to get them to cough up new ones. 

That being said, I wasn't having any braking issues before the rebuild (save a hard pedal at idle in gear - I need to check the vaccum source) so I deceided to use them as is. The worst that will happen is I take them back off and replace/resurface them - which I don't want to do either, the last two sets of rotors I bought from Advance Auto and Auto Zone warped horribly after install.

There is so little wear on them and there are not blued so I'll see how it goes...

Dan


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan great work so far. I do not think shops do much in the way of turning rotors anymore without ruining them, as most rotors these days are made in china and the steel is awful.

Great work on the spring compressor. That was a great idea, my compressor had me in fits!! Those bearings looked awful. Keep up the great work!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan great work so far. I do not think shops do much in the way of turning rotors anymore without ruining them, as most rotors these days are made in china and the steel is awful.
> 
> Great work on the spring compressor. That was a great idea, my compressor had me in fits!! Those bearings looked awful. Keep up the great work!


Thanks nightshade, part of my thoughts exactly on the rotors...

Yea, for me frustration is the mother of invention. Compressing that second springs had me so aggravated I took a break for lunch - that's when I thought of using the rubber bits. Who-da-thunk beer and sub was brain food.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I do love following projects like this one. You're doing great work, sir...

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

It's Alive!!!!



I set her on the floor tonight after I installed the passenger bearings and brakes, nothing snapped, popped, creaked or groaned. I rocked her and she stood tall!!

The most exciting part of it is I had ZERO extra parts!!!! :lol:

The frustrating part of finishing was as soon as I aether down and tightened the control arm bolts it started to rain very heavily. Go figure, I'll have to wait another day to take her on her maiden new front end voyage. I am looking foreword to it!!:thumbsup:

She is officially back to OEM ride height!! And she doesn't lean to the drivers-side any longer!!! 



Tempering my frustration with the weather delaying my test drive is my interior arrived today!!!! Funny how it knew to arrive today when I finished. :lol:



I was told by the vendor my interior would not arrive for 6-8 weeks!!!! It arrived in two!!!!!!!

I eyeballed the alignment with a tape measure so I'll get it looked at when I find a shop to do the alignment - i'll probably need one because I can see the camber is off, remember it's all new and it was probably aligned last with old warn out parts. . :biggrin2:

Next is to get the interior started and install all the little bits I ordered like hood blanket, proper water neck etc...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

:thumbsup: Drool.......


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> I do love following projects like this one. You're doing great work, sir...
> 
> Bear


Thanks Bear, I appreciate it.

It's a bit therapeutic for me despite the trials and tribulations getting people to do work for me. I end up doing it myself and learning along the way... I can spend all day working on cars like this, no cell phones, no email, no work, no anything but me and my car.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> :thumbsup: Drool.......


HA HA 

I worked for a number of years to afford this thing so I'm doing it right!


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## 68-GTO (Oct 20, 2013)

it looks very good...
congrats....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

68-GTO said:


> it looks very good...
> congrats....


Thanks 68-GTO, it seems like is took forever but today I took on a shakedown run with my daughter who has been bugging me to get her finished. I'm happy to report she responded flawlessly (a huge weight off my mind). The brakes worked perfectly, the trans worked as expected (laid the longest patch I've ever done ), and the front suspension was smooth as glass even on these really bad Ohio roads. AND over those bad roads she didn't rattle once! At 85 MPH she was stable as can be and I'm really pleased my eyeball alignment was nearly dead on. I will still get it aligned by a pro so I don't ruin my new BFGs.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Great Work Dan! Congrats!!!! I drive through Ohio fairly regularly, so why don't we just paint the car an awesome shade of nightshade green???? :smilielol5:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Great Work Dan! Congrats!!!! I drive through Ohio fairly regularly, so why don't we just paint the car an awesome shade of nightshade green???? :smilielol5:


Thanks nightshade. :smilielol5:
Believe you me, I've thought about it and I'm installing a new Parchment interior just in-case I do decide to do that one day! For now I'll keep the black and white combo. 

The door is always open here so if you find yourself in the Cleveland area stop in for a cold one. 

Dan


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Thanks nightshade. :smilielol5:
> Believe you me, I've thought about it and I'm installing a new Parchment interior just in-case I do decide to do that one day! For now I'll keep the black and white combo.
> 
> The door is always open here so if you find yourself in the Cleveland area stop in for a cold one.
> ...


Oh Dude, I drove right by you twice last week....My route is I-80 to Detroit. I had my dad with me and was trailering my Monte to/from the dream cruise. Enjoy that ride!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Oh Dude, I drove right by you twice last week....My route is I-80 to Detroit. I had my dad with me and was trailering my Monte to/from the dream cruise. Enjoy that ride!


HA funny how that works sometimes. 

The plan is to have mine ready for Dream Cruise next year - she's not a show stopper but she is nice.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, Cleveland? There are a couple of great machine shops around there... or there were about 15 years ago. My youngest son played basketball for Cleveland State, so I got familiar with the area. All good. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, Cleveland? There are a couple of great machine shops around there... or there were about 15 years ago. My youngest son played basketball for Cleveland State, so I got familiar with the area. All good. Matt


Yep, Cleveland, Ohio... Seems like most pass through or are from here.  

15 years ago there probably was a few good shops around town but these days I'm not having any luck finding any - or at least not willing to do the work. Luckily the rotors are working fine.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Project interior refresh has begun!!!

Interior arrived way earlier than expected so I dropped off most of the stuff at the upholsterer today.



I dropped one seat off so I can drive it to the shop next week. The rebuilt transmission is leaking so they will look at it and drop it off at the alignment shop. 

The floor is in great shape, way better thanI expected so I'll pull the carpet and try doing the body mounts and at least paint the floor with POR 15. Since the upholsterer needs a week or two I may even put down sound proofing/heat shield.





The backing of the upper rear seat is pretty nice, the package tray is trashed along with the corner windlace so it all gets replaced.

The old...





The new (Teaser)!!!!!

I'm jazzed!!!



The new interior looks great. Tomorrow I'll drop off the door panels and hopefully he will take some pictures for me along the way so I can document things as they progress.

Man will it be nice to sit on the seat not in it. :lol:

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

This picture sucks but you get the idea... the new seat covers, front and back, come with indicators where the emblems go.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

When last we left the dynamic duo, me and the car, we were dropping off the interior at the upholsterer. I kept the drivers seat so I could still drive her while waiting until everything was ready to install (then get the drivers seat done). Some parts are still not here but my guy is working on the parts I did drop off as I type. More parts arrive tomorrow and Thursday so I'll drop them off as needed. I'm hopeful the rest arrive next week.

She's at the alignment shop now after the transmission leak fix (had a rebuild in May so it's under warranty)... Last weekend I took her for several extended drives and much to my delight she stuck to the road like a roller-skate on a drag strip! I took navigated some turns fairly quickly with no issues. One such turn was a long sweeping exit/entrance ramp from one highway to another. The apex of the turn is actually fairly sharp - kind of like the end of an egg so that was a great test for my front end rebuild. I took that turn at 90mph, she didn't even twitch or squirm!!:cheers



I've seen it in action in person, it just might be one of the best tools I'll buy... when I save up enough coin... hopefully the price will drop some too - it is a relatively new product (the BL3500 has been out for a year or two).

This rebuild when so well, not time-wise but mechanical-wise, I've decided to rebuild the rear suspension as well but that won't be until a bit later. I still have some driving time so I'll use it when I can get it. Since I had to buy all the tools to do the front now I can bring my cost per job down a bit by doing more of them.  I've already passed the word about my 20ton shop press to all my friends. :razz:

That being said I plan to get a new lift, one of these - been saving my lunch money . I can use it for lifting the body when I do the body mounts and also use it to raise the car (and all my other cars) by the frame so I can drop all the rear suspension at one time and work on it out from under the car.
QuickJack - Ranger BL-5000 Quick Jack - Motorsports Race Jack Stands - Race Car Pit Lift - Portable Car Lift - Garage Lift - Ranger

Tonight, more laying rubber after the alignment... tomorrow I look at installing sound deadener after getting some opinions from some of you. Thanks for that, more to come (my list is finally getting shorter!!)... Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Alignment done, rubber laid! Apparently I had the alignment pretty close - toe was almost perfect. One shim added to each side (one fore and one aft - cast and camber) and it's done!

Next two days more parts are to arrive so off to the upholster tomorrow after USP drops and runs.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Sweet Man! You are motivating me to get recranked on my GTO....just need to Purchaser the compressor...spend Spring and summer wiring the garage for 220 Volts...and first had to upgrade the house to 200 Amp service.... 

Great work!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I feel your pain, I did that earlier this spring. Now that I have the 220 I can get a welder etc. :biggrin2:



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Sweet Man! You are motivating me to get recranked on my GTO....just need to Purchaser the compressor...spend Spring and summer wiring the garage for 220 Volts...and first had to upgrade the house to 200 Amp service....
> 
> Great work!


Thanks Nightshade, I didm't realize how much fun it would be to drive her with no concerns! 
wanna go 90+ no problem, want to take a corner (on/off ramp) faster than you should go ahead, want to press your luck drawing the attention of your local PIA policia light um up!! :smilielol:

I dropped off more parts at the upholsterer tonight and more are coming in tomorrow!!! I really like the interior, the seat bottoms look great and the firmness is unreal! The upholsterer said the seats were never put together correctly. Now they will be perfect!!!!!!!:banana:

I did confirm I need new rear bearings so that has risen the top of the to-do list after the interior and I am done driving her for the season. I'll most likely drop the rear end and do a rebuild like the front end.

Now take your renewed enthusiasm and get to work on that GOAT!!! :willy:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

From my upholsterer visit today...

Rear seats done!!





Front seats underway!!







The old seat backs were covered, see the old brown interior color...




The old foam was so bad it has NO form whatsoever!!



It also was everywhere because some of it was crumbling!!



Picture limit be damned!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

... and we're back...

Because the seats had no support the side panels got crushed - plus they were getting brittle... more to come...





I'm surprised how hard the Parchment material is to photograph - or the camera doesn't like the lighting in the upholstery shop. I'll have to get some good pics when it's home.

more to come...

PS. I decided to take the door panels off this weekend and fix the driver-side lock mechanism and see why the passenger window is so slow beforeI drop off the car next week for the reassembly of the interior.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

That interior will look sharp once it is redone, how is the condition of the dash? I sent mine to just dashes and fell on my tail when I opened the box.....it was perfect and looked like it had more cracks than King Tut when I sent it to them....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hey nightshade... my dash is in pretty good condition, it has only one crack so I'm not hot-to-trot to get it fixed just yet. I did contact Just Dashes after reading glowing reviews on-line. It's pricey ($1,200) so I'll wait (I have a dash cover now) and see how my interior comes out. When I remove the dash and fix all the duct work and anything else going wrong (I currently don't have tail or dash lights - already replaced/tested fuses) I'll see how it looks while "in-hand" and evaluate the condition versus cost of a redo before I reinstall it.



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> That interior will look sharp once it is redone, how is the condition of the dash? I sent mine to just dashes and fell on my tail when I opened the box.....it was perfect and looked like it had more cracks than King Tut when I sent it to them....


I'll drop my door panels off tonight and get working on the drivers door lock and slow passenger window while it's bare.

Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got the front seats back today... you rook marvelous!!!!



Stitching on the back seat bottom is bad so it's going back Monday...



Found the rear panels didn't have power window switches so I ordered new... I also ordered new splash shields, they were missing. Tomorrow I'll get new rope caulk to install the splash shields. 





The driver and passenger door emblem mounts are broken so I ordered new.

I ordered new horns and more hood mat clips. I hope these are better than the first batch which broke. I bought 8 clips because the five that a vendor sold in sets of 5 are not enough.

I started looking into the my door issues. The drivers door won't unlock and the passenger front window is really slow.

While looking around I found stuff like this...



Looks like I'm going to be doing a full door refresh at some point.

Sprayed some lubricant on the door lock mechanism, it seems to be working correctly now.

The door looks pretty good inside... not much rust.



So it seems my car was redone about 22 years ago in 92.



Yep, good ol skeeter


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'd love to get rid of that picture posting limit!!

The door panels were "rebuilt" using PUI material and as much of the old pieces as possible.. The colored he headrests, used the lower carpet from the old interior, colored the seat belts, and replaced the headliner and other parts..





I'll need to repaint the headrests and spray with the "gold flake" (maybe). I'll explain later...

It appears back in the day the backs and sides of the seats didn't match the seat material. My headrests are close in color to the new seats (without the gold tint) so I'm debating on touching them... I will do something with the rear corner wind lace and arm rests. The new arm rests are a bit shorter that the old ones so I may clem and repaint the old ones. I'll have to figure out how to all the old paint to reveal the old pattern. They almost look smith there is so much paint on them.

Speaking of the gold tone in the Parchment seats... that's a long story so I'll have to talk about that later... I'm beat.

Dan


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan, that car is looking sweet my friend! Keep up the good work!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks nightshade... I wasn't intending this to be a full redo... but now I'm well on my way!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I wonder when I'll stop being surprised... while my interior was out of the car I decided to install sound deadener/insulator. I pulled the carpet to find this...



The jute had stuck to the old carpet glue and I obviously couldn't put the new martial over that...



After a few hours (including a trip to the store to get glue remover)...



Mostly done after work tonight...



I just have the drivers side foot area to do now... I'll probably end up using a gallon of glue remover. Never in a million years did I expect I'd have to do to this.



While I dismantled the interior I found more surprises... It looked innocent enough...



The fresh air actuator works, a nice surprise.



I now know why I don't get any air anywhere but my feet...



This fell out of the duct...



Damn picture limit...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Numerous screws missing... no wonder there is so much noise when I go over bumps. Part of the reason for installing the soundproofing.





When I tried to remove the shift knob, I couldn't. I dropped this lock ring then firmly tapped the knob down with my hand. The button popped up allowing me to pull it out.

I wonder when I'll stop being surprised... while my interior was out of the car I decided to install sound deadener/insulator. I pulled the carpet to find this...




When I tried to remove the shift knob, I couldn't. I dropped this lock ring then firmly tapped the knob down with my hand. The button popped up allowing me to pull it up/out.

Then release this ring to pull the knob off/up... this is when I found found out my shifter was not operating properly. I suspected it some time ago but now I know. The button is supposed to be pressed in to allow shifting. Mine was "always pressed" with this button jammed in the knob so I could shift (from park) just by hitting the lever.



The dark black section above is on a spring and locks the shifter. Depressing the button dresses this mechanism and allows you to shift.

Bear reported having this issue on his shifter on another thread. He rigged up a tool to hold his button while he milled it to fit allowing his shifter to work properly. I'll have to do the same... Also note this shifter knob is Not black like the rest of my interior. Either it was overlooked or was replaced at some point. I'm not sure it's the correct shifter knob either... More research to do. Come to think of it the button logo is in really good shape for a 45 year old car. I'm guessing it was replaced with the wrong button.

I was also surprised to find they butchered the carpet... why the hell would you have to cut a hole that big for a 12" shifter? this falls under WTF not my theme of surprises!!



How do you like my new seat? It's a genuine H. billy model #1.



Next on the hit list, finish the floor cleanup, install the sound deadener (I need a warm day (70d) to do that and I'm running out of days), then reinstall all the interior (if the rest of my "drop shipped" parts arrive).


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I forgot to mention, looks like the top of my dash isn't the only thing with a crack... 



Looks like I may be calling Just Dashes sooner than I thought. You can also see the old tan color, they didn't paint it very well - probably painted it in place - I found overspray on the front windshield early on. I'll see how much other stuff is wrong when I remove the entire dash later...

Looks like I have the right shifter knob and button after all. I do need a new shifter washer ($10) :jawDrop::jawDrop: Il'l post a pic of it later, not sure how you could break something like that inside a knob but...

I also, determined it was installed incorrectly as well as the knob "shrinking" so the button won't work correctly. Here is the post where BearGFR fixed his as well as another member.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f12/automatic-shifter-button-stuck-35019/


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Matthew would like that Vedoro Green seat! I used Just dashes for my 68, it came out great, but a 68 Dash if I recall is simpler in design that a 69 ....expect to pay a lot more than I did...

My car was already apart when I got it...dirty thieves....stole a perfect dash cover, instrument cluster, and perfect doors.....oh well. Keep up the good work.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Matthew would like that Vedoro Green seat! I used Just dashes for my 68, it came out great, but a 68 Dash if I recall is simpler in design that a 69 ....expect to pay a lot more than I did...
> 
> My car was already apart when I got it...dirty thieves....stole a perfect dash cover, instrument cluster, and perfect doors.....oh well. Keep up the good work.


Thanks Nightshade, yea I talked to Just Dashes earlier in the summer... gulp $1200 out the door. I'll have to save up my allowance and lunch money over the winter. 

That sucks! I really don't understand people doing that...

I got the floor done tonight, even started on the three spots of rust, only one has any pitting. It looks like water entered through the fresh air door and sat on the passenger side floor where the firewall starts.

Tomorrow I'll finish prepping the floors for rust proofing touch up paint... then install the sound deadening. It will be in the 70s all week according to the weather people so I should be able to git er done!

Although they are a good thing to have I want to figure out a better way to do these...



My shifter knob is supposed to be walnut grain but there is "grain" so I'll figure something out for that too. 

More to come...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

The worse part is they bought rusty doors for the "internals"...from a WWII veteran....then returned to his farm and stole the good parts off of my car. um future car. Your car is coming great, I like this build. I paid 550 for the dash, but about 1500 for the a pillars, kick panels, rear 1/4 panel inserts..all came out spectacular...


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, Anthony is a recovering verdorophobic. While he is doing well, it is still a long road ahead.  

Agree with him on your project. Interesting to watch your work on the car. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Nightshade... at least you saved that beautiful car from the crusher!!!

HA HA thanks Matthew, I am a recovering verdoroholic! I love that color - Dad had a 69 Lemans convertible that color. I was looking for that color car but this one showed up so I changed to black and white, I have to admit I like this combo and it will look really good once I'm done!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I got the floor cleaned resealed and painted today... I started out only painting the spots I broke through the OEM paint and ended up painting nearly the whole thing. 

Temps were in the 70s today, same for tomorrow predicted so I can start on the sound proofing... I need to find my small roller, figures I can't find it when I need it. 



I've got about 30 days before the potential for snow arrives (which is need guaranteed here - it could be next week for all I know) so I need to get this done so I can drive her with the new interior.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Made some good progress today, and a touch yesterday...

First the entertainment... a must when you are sitting on your tuccus for an hour or two at a time.



Oddly enough, I used this as a test of the insulating power of the material I'm putting down. Bass was definitely improved when I move it from an untreated area to one that had just been completed.

I got a good start with the larger pieces... notice I bought a logo-free product. I hate free advertising for someone else... 



I quickly had to switch strategies, with all the cracks, crevasses, and odd shapes , long narrow pieces work better...



If I were an artistic type it would look better in person but I'm not so I get what 
I get. I made sure to overlap joints a minimum of half to one inch. I used a medium sized screw driver end to press into the valleys, a laminate roller with a 12 inch handle, and my thumbs to get it all pressed down. I also used a flat blade screw driver tip to press into tight cracks.

Before I placed a piece I would cut it, shape it to the place I needed it, cut relief cuts (to help shape the piece over odd shapes and curves) then I pulled the backing off and installed it. The pre-fit yeps get it where I really wanted it...



A small suggestion, don't sit on these when you are maneuvering around your car... for obvious reasons.



Tomorrow I go hunting and try to finish up her insulation... in the mean time I decided to ditch the Parchment and go with a custom seat cover...



HA, kidding of course. I decided to install the driver seat so I could move her while working - I don't have room to spread her wings (doors ) in the garage safely at the moment. The seat cover protects the new Parchment against certain damage while I work in the car net to it... you could say CMA.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Funny, someone lost a drill bit...



I left it there for the next guy to find.  That will be another 20 or 30 years at this rate. 

Would you believe I missed it by that much? Anybody get that reference?



I almost got it done today but I didn't like how the old seam sealer looked so I pulled it all and put in new. It didn't dry in time for me to finish but I'll get it done tomorrow. I ended up using every bit of material I bought for this job so I'll get more when I remove the dash to put on the firewall, I'll do the rest of the back seat area too. 



I did have enough for the wheel wells... 



I'll also place this stuff in the body holes accessible from the interior... for example, see the lower right where it's covered by the kick panel. There is a heavy piece of material in there and it looks like it's been wet more that once. I'll also install it on the doors, and inside thereat quarter panels.



See the material here...




Time for some shuteye, been up since 4:30am. Tomorrow: finish sound proofing, install carpet after cleaning - I'm leaning toward new since almost everything else will be new and go for a drive in my much quieter car!!! 

By the way, I took a test drive yesterday and I can't believe the difference it made with just one side done! PS. I fixed all the loose and broken door and window thing-ma-bobs all over the car. Makes for a ton less crap to rattle and make noise - I do nee to look into the window rubber mounting pins(plastic) some are not holding the windows in place.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I finished the install and put it all back together today and took her for a long ride with Mrs. Dan. It was really nice to drive her after all that work. It was nice and quiet... except the one rattle I missed when fixing those yesterday. I think a regulator bolt/nut is loose.

Sins on the past can't hide in the light of day... looks like the carpet is seriously faded. I may also be going color blind, it looks navy to me.



I also figured out why they butchered the carpet around the shifter but I'm not sure why they butchered the edges. They must have given a 9 year old a knife to do that job. I decided to keep this carpet while I "fix things up" and will replace it next season when I'm done "making dirt" in the rebuild/restore process.

I think the next steps are painting the headrests and arm rests to match the new interior, getting the 14" wheels I found redone and ready for new shoes next year, new body mounts, install new horns and making a plan to restore the dash and under dash area. Oh and drive her as much as possible between now and the first snow!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PS. I should have said she's all back together sans the center console which smells awful. The kick panels also smelled (as did the plastic bits from the seats) on the backside so I sprayed them with lacquer. The smell went away, for now, so I'll look at doing the same to the interior of the console. I'm not sure if the solvent killed the spray or covered it up, time will tell.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PPS. I also should mention the sound proofing is very sharp (the aluminum backing) so when you wash your hands or soak them in Hydrogen Peroxide they will foam and sting think many many paper-cuts. I know this because I always wash/soak my hands in HP when I'm done with a day of working on cars etc. I've had three MRSA (staff) infections this year so I'm taking no chances.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Looks like good progress Dan. I was honing my skills on my buddy's 70 El camino. We cut up the boxed frame so he can transfer those pieces to the new frame as the boxing did not match and we pulled the body off the frame. Now to buy my air compressor at carlise so I can catch up to you!

Great work so far....I did not get the drill bit reference...its early on Monday.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Looks like good progress Dan. I was honing my skills on my buddy's 70 El camino. We cut up the boxed frame so he can transfer those pieces to the new frame as the boxing did not match and we pulled the body off the frame. Now to buy my air compressor at carlise so I can catch up to you!
> 
> Great work so far....I did not get the drill bit reference...its early on Monday.


Thanks, I'm finally feel like I'm making good progress... Sounds like fun cutting and welding! El caminos are one of my favorite cars.

Um, I have no idea why I thought that was funny. Must have been lack of sleep.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Success! 

After reading BearGFR's post on how he fixed his shifter button using a mandrel I started to think of how I could do the same. I didn't want to build something I knew nothing about how to so I improvised. I thought I needed something to hold the entire thing so I could spin it and shave it with something like sandpaper.

This is what I came up with... a Screw gun, 1" socket, sandpaper, emery board and the button...



Varying speeds and sandpaper (60 and 100) did the trick. 

Now it fits inside the knob...



I used just the edge of the paper to avoid messing up my socket.

I also smoothed the inside of the knob where the button "rides" and I'll polish the button edge I just sanded.

Now I just need to get a new $10 washer, unless you guys know of a cheaper way to go, and put my shifter back together. This is the washer that holds the shift knob from the inside.



Tried an Ozone machine to get rid of the smell in my center console... it helped but it didn't eliminate the smell altogether. I'll have to try it in a smaller container... More to come.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I got the back seat and doors done tonight... I left the openings for now because my new window switches were delayed again. I need to grease all the tracks and had to fix some wire routing issues.



I also took these nasty looking door handles and made them look a touch better...



After a few minutes of work...



I used this magic paste! I love this stuff. I use it on all my chrome gear, it leaves a nice protective coat so on wheels dirt just washes off with a hose!!



I also fixed my tail light issue.



More on that later. Turned out to be a "rouge" wire in the trunk. This was touching the truck bracket. I wonder if this was supposed to be a truck light because it was blowing the 20 amp tail/dash light fuse.



I'll dig into the wiring issues and such in the winter, it's gonna be a long cold one so I'll have plenty of time on my hands.

Oh, and the shifter now works correctly so my shifting from P, R, and D is very nice now. Amazing how the small things can mess up a really big thing. I will take apart the shift console this winter to touch it up and fix some issues with it too. I sprayed it with lacquer to stop the smell too...

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I posted my wheels and tires on Craigslist this afternoon, 30 minutes later I had two emails about them. I called the numbers, it was a pair of brothers with one calling for the other... 30 minutes later the brother helping the other find tires and wheels was in my driveway. Ten minutes later they were both sold!!! Something I figured would take a long time to sell only took 70 minutes!!! Now I am "forced" :wink2: to get my recently acquired 14 inch wheels blasted and painted AND find tires! :thumbsup:

Just when I thought I was done with projects on my girl for the year.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

That is happy news....plus you have extra coin for the car projects in the Spring!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I wish it would last that long... I'm getting the rear end seals and bearings etc done so I will break even.  I drop her off Monday for that. The rear bearing was making a bit of noise so it's time for a rebuild. I'll have a pro do this because I've never don it before and I will get a warranty against any issues.



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> That is happy news....plus you have extra coin for the car projects in the Spring!


I ordered new tires, should be here early next week, and the wheels are being sand blasted and primed (should be done next week) - I'm having an industrial primer applied. Wheel paint should arrive tonight along with some other interior parts (details details - stuff that will bother me like new gear indicator, visor clips and door panel grommets).


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I picked up my wheels yesterday and got 2/3rds of the way through painting them today after work. Note to self: you need two cans of primer to lay down two or three coats on four wheels.

They did a nice job blasting them... Here you can see even if you "think" your hands are clean they aren't. Finger and hand prints... I used my friend Acetone to kill my prints and make the paint stick. On my last restoration project I learned how to paint steel, plastic, and soft bits so I'm pretty confident this will stick pretty well and last. 





Funny, each wheel is stamped differently and the number is upside down. Two of the JA wheels...





The JC wheel... a different stamp, I'm assuming mother manufacturer or plant (this is a Drum Brake car wheel).



There is some pitting but I'm sure the tires will seal fine. 



I painted the backside and inside with three coats of primer... it's not quite dry here...



Then I painted the inside with Rustoleum... then I painted the backs. I figured if I overlapped with the finish color it won't matter. I only did the back and inside so I can move them tomorrow (paint will be cured) without hurting what I just painted. Tomorrow will be really wet, rain, so I may have to wait to paint the fronts.



I forgot to take a shot of the backs finished so that will be later... They look pretty good.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Dang picture limit...

Next is to finish the wheels and get the new tires mounted (they are not in yet after ordering them last Sunday). Then I drop her off at the shop for a rear end rebuild Monday night after work. Unless they find something horribly wrong I'll have a stout drivetrain again... :thumbsup: Somewhere in there I'll swap out the wheels and tires having sold the current ones.

After that, I know seems like it just keeps going and going which it is , I'll drop her off to have the interior reassembled (part of my deal with the upholsterer) and have all the windows adjusted/aligned. 

This week I got all the windows working like new after greasing them and freeing the rear windows from sticking to the rubber gaskets. I don't think they have ever been open. I also tested all the windows with my new rear window switches.

Funny, I'll get all this done just in time to put her away for the winter. 

By the way, this stuff is incredible. The flow is so high, it dries so fast, and you can shoot in any direction including upside-down.



I lied, here is the back finished...





And here is the finishing touch... for the front.



Not sure if you guys do this but Dad taught me this trick many many moons ago... before you use spray paint put the can in hot water and place it back in hot water between coats, it should feel pretty warm to the touch. This makes the can have better, even pressure and allows you to use every bit of paint...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh, and I finally got all the sound deadener installed. I left the holes open for now until I get all the windows adjusted then I'll "patch" the deadener and close her up.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Silver Argent applied over a self etching primer today... can says to wait 12-18 hours for full cure so I'll lay on the dark gray tomorrow - temps are in the 50s now so cure time will be a bit longer (I can't run my propane heater all night to help cure the paint like I did to get them painted today). I bought a 5-wheel self-stick stencil set from the interweb for $9 bucks.





Weather permitting I get the rear end rebuilt tomorrow.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Rear end is silent now!!! What a difference to hear NOTHING but engine not bearing noise!! Three of four axel bearings were shot - badly. While they were in there I had them do the pinion and carrier bearings. Apparently the pinion bearing (dang it can't remember the name of it) thingy-ma-bob that is crushed between the two bearings was installed incorrectly. Someone, recently, worked on this rear end and over tightened things making the pinion bearings too tight making them heat up. They were all blue and badly worn!



I also found out my axel tubes are not coming out/loose so that is a big bonus!







I can't believe how nice she pulls now, I put my foot in it on the highway on the way home and she took off!!!

I also found a place to get new tires, the last one fell on their face so I'll pick those up Thursday or Friday and have them mounted. Speaking of wheels, these rook marvelous!!!



Finished these last night...



She is coming together nicely!!!! I'm a happy camper!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, good deal on your rear end noise fix. Do you know if this is the original rear end for your car? Were you expecting to see this carrier and gear ratio? Nice work on the rims. Matt


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan awesome work. I will admit, I chicken out on rear end work, something about setting pre-load and crush sleeves, and when I hear the word crush, I apply kung fu powers and tend to destroy things! Hence my buddies forbid me to torque stuff without proper restraints lol. I just dig those rims....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Matthew, I knew it wasn't the original rear end but now I'm thoroughly confused. The stamping says it's a '69 Pontiac Grad Prix rear end and the repair shop guy said he had to use a '70-71 front pinion seal on it. He also said the bearing should have been pressed into the end of the axle tube but it wasn't, it was pressed onto the drive shaft with a locking collar holding it in place.



Matthew said:


> Dan, good deal on your rear end noise fix. Do you know if this is the original rear end for your car? Were you expecting to see this carrier and gear ratio? Nice work on the rims. Matt


In any case the job is done and she sounds awesome now!

I did confirm the rear main seal is leaking. The shop guys said they leaked when build new in 69 too so repairing it wouldn't really do much for me. I'll keep an eye or two on it and if it gets worse I'll address that later.

Transmission is leaking again so that will have to be addressed under warranty.

I'm looking forward to getting my new tires and installing trim rings...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan awesome work. I will admit, I chicken out on rear end work, something about setting pre-load and crush sleeves, and when I hear the word crush, I apply kung fu powers and tend to destroy things! Hence my buddies forbid me to torque stuff without proper restraints lol. I just dig those rims....


Ha too funny - I'm sure your competing/training doesn't help.  

Thanks Nightshade... I'm the same way - a bull in the china shop mentality. I'd probably kill about everytihng I ever had to tighten if I didn't have an army of torque wrenches!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, I'm with you - doesn't matter what it came from or what year it is if it works right. I like the 3.23 gear ratio for automatics. Good stuff. Oh, and Nightshade would encourage you to paint your differential cover Verdoro green to add a touch of class. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, I'm with you - doesn't matter what it came from or what year it is if it works right. I like the 3.23 gear ratio for automatics. Good stuff. Oh, and Nightshade would encourage you to paint your differential cover Verdoro green to add a touch of class. Matt


HA I'm a Verdoro green guy at heart.  Maybe when I'm all done i just dip the whole thing in VG. :rofl:

As for gear ratios, I'm happy I have the 3.23. From what I've read others like it, it seems to be the best of all worlds and from my experience I have good response off the line (for an automatic w/TH400, 4bbl), while cruising (I like 70MPH or more) and if I plant my foot on the highway she accelerates pretty good... Gas mileage, I haven't checked, seems to be good as a tank lasts me quite awhile - I'm sure this will improve after the drive line has been serviced/repaired. I'm also guessing miles and mileage will change with stock 14 inch tires on her instead of 15s.

My tires are in! I will get them mounted tonight!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Funny story... 10 days ago I ordered 4 BFG Radial T/A 225 x 70 14 tires from retailer A. As of yesterday they still hadn't come in so I called retailer B, they ordered a set for a phone deposit of $20. Retailer B says tires might be in Thursday or Friday. I get a call today at 9am from retailer B, tires were in and they are 8 months "old". I get home from work and the answering machine is blinking, retailer A calls and said my tires are in. HA! Good thing I didn't have to pay retailer A anything upfront.

Now on to todays work... I installed the new tires, trim rings and removed the "Judge" stickers. She is no longer a poser. 





Now she looks like I've pictured in my minds eye. I'm jazzed!!



I couldn't get the center caps on without killing the paint. I didn't have time to look but I'm guessing they have to be screwed on from the backside. They came off the old wheels easily. 

Sun should be out tomorrow so I can get some better shots.

I took her for a spin on the new shoes and socks. I stopped and tried to lay rubber and the car stalled.  I guess these tires are a bit stickier than the old ones. :lol:

Now she can go to the upholsterer and get put back together then I'm a gonna drive the crap out of her until the snow flies! :thumbsup:


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Awesome work! No more Judge stickers....is a good thing on a non judge.....Keeping the stripes I think is a great idea....Have fun with the car....I need to tell Matt I am thinking about coating the internals of my engine with Vedoro green..... hhahahahaha


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Saweeeet!


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## 68-GTO (Oct 20, 2013)

i have think about 14" steel rims, but with my Wilwood´s it dont fit them.

I like your Style.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Awesome work! No more Judge stickers....is a good thing on a non judge.....Keeping the stripes I think is a great idea....Have fun with the car....I need to tell Matt I am thinking about coating the internals of my engine with Vedoro green..... hhahahahaha


Thanks Nightshade... I will keep the stripes for now. I'm not usually a sticker and stripe guy but it sets mine off from all the others I've seen around here.



Matthew said:


> Saweeeet!


:lol: Thanks Matthew. Hey, according to Nightshade your house must be Verdoro green on Verdoro green with an accent of Verdoro green. :lol:



68-GTO said:


> i have think about 14" steel rims, but with my Wilwood´s it dont fit them.
> 
> I like your Style.


Thanks 68-GTO. Yes, you'll need monster wheels to go with those monster brakes and engine!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I should have bought more tires...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I laid a 50 foot patch of rubber Friday, hit 100mph and had a BLAST on my three hour test drive!!!!! 

Today I launched her, up hill, on an on-ramp and only let up when I passed 100!!! Cruising at 70 mashed the gas and hit 95 in just a few seconds!! Driving a car with 350 HP compared to my TWO 85 HP trucks (one 25 years old and the other 17) is soo much fun!!!

I am gonna enjoy every mile in this car!!!! Even daughter Dan wanted to go for a ride today. Tomorrow it's Mrs. Dan's turn - she ain't gonna like it, trust me. :rofl:

Monday she goes to the upholsterer to get the rest of the interior installed (the GTO not Mrs. Dan) :lol: . 

Now that all the major issues are ironed out (trans, rear end, interior) I'll start working on little details like manufacturing new horn brackets, repainting interior parts and making things nearly perfect. The brackets that came with the new horns are completely wrong - too short and not shaped correctly. 

This winter I'll brake down the dash and fix/clean/restore everything under and behind it. I've already sourced a "new" OEM defroster vent, mine has disintegrated. I will be sending out my dash for restoration so I'll have to start saving my milk money and allowance fro a while. 

Definitely more to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sun-day = fun day!!!! A perfect day, 60+ degrees, sunshine and speed!

The sound of that 400CID is amazing at highway speeds... today I had to get off the road, didn't hit my all-time record but definitely a record in this car. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan, Sounds like fun!!!!! I am happy you got to enjoy the car this year before the snow flies....I can sit on my restored seats hold my wheel and shifter and make vroom vroom noises lol


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Fun is an understatement! :laugh:



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan, Sounds like fun!!!!! I am happy you got to enjoy the car this year before the snow flies....I can sit on my restored seats hold my wheel and shifter and make vroom vroom noises lol


LOL

Some day my friend, some day, you too will enjoy the thrill of melting your tires all over your neighborhood!!

I took her to the upholsterer today. An "old pro" will adjust all the windows to make them seal better and in a day or two I'll have a brand new interior!

Oh, the guy doing my interior said "man, you took your time on this insulation!". I guess he liked my work. LOL


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

All the windows are working perfectly now. The window guy also rerouted all the wiring because it was being hit by the glass as it rolled down. Apparently the people who restored this car in 92 didn't do a good job with the things, anything, you can't readily see. Like the riverside panel was held on by two screws and two clips.

ALL the window stop brackets are missing and are not availalbe unless you buy the whole regulator assembly, at least for now. I won't give up looking...

Any way... a shot of her in all her glory!



Hopefully Friday I get her back with a complete new interior!!


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

awesome looking car dan!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

I agree with Anthony, that car is looking great. And some of your best work will not even be seen. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks guys, I'm pretty happy with how it's going. I can't wait to get the dash and finer things done!



Matthew said:


> I agree with Anthony, that car is looking great. And some of your best work will not even be seen. Matt


Yea but I'll "know" it's there. :wink2:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I got her back from the upholster last night, took her for a spin down the highway and back while avoiding smokey, pulled off just before the speed trap. 

Today I may have driven her for the last time this year... it's raining, the temps are supposed to fall through the floor tonight and snow is called for by Thursday...

Before I took her out I snapped a few shots with the professional setup... the sun wasn't in the best position but you'll get the idea.











and a few shots with the fisheye...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

And back from the picture posting limit...







I polished up the center caps and those will go on next. Next year, maybe this winter, I'll address the engine bay... 

The interior looks mud better in person, I have to paint all the arm rest bases. I and to use the old rear arm rest assemblies because the manufacture has indefinitely back ordered the new ones I ordered. I'll have to set up and photo studio in the garage to get some really good shots.

More to come...


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, the details are looking mighty fine. A shame winter has to slow you down. As I recall, Cleveland gets a special winter with the wind off the lake. Again, the car looks great. Matt


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan, That car looks outstanding!!!!!!! What a sweet driver!!!! Sad time for us here in the rustbelt.....time to put our babies away....Don't make fun, my driver is a monte....my GTO on the other hand is going to get lots of restore love the up coming year....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Matt!



Matthew said:


> Dan, the details are looking mighty fine. A shame winter has to slow you down. As I recall, Cleveland gets a special winter with the wind off the lake. Again, the car looks great. Matt


Yea, we have the great displeasure of getting "NorEasters" AND lake effect snow when the wind crosses the Great Lakes and grabs lots of moisture to dump on us. A number of years ago we had 70 inches the week before Thanksgiving!

I'll also be on the DL again in January so that isn't gonna help me get things done on her.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Not much to report... took her out of the garage twice this past weekend (temps in the 50s - had t replace Mrs Dan's Rear struts) and no snow but did't take her on the road. I'm already itchin to drive her like I stole her!! 

BUT I have 6 more months to go. This winter is gonna suck for me. :banghead:

After I get some other things ironed out and before I go not the DL in January I plan to pull the dash and send it to Just Dashes. Detailed dash removal to follow... Stay warm out there. :reddevil: 

To avoid a pictureless post... After I fixed the taillights. 



Dan


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Just dashes does an outstanding job, they did mine....Unfortunately, no GTO came with a nightshade green dash LOL!!!!

Car looks great, we had snow heavy wet and destroyed the trees in my yard near my garage! Hope you are well and recover quickly!


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Nightshade, you are a funny man. Dan, recommend you upgrade the avionics while the dash is out in case you decide to really get on that thing! Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Cool, thanks. You are too funny. 



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Just dashes does an outstanding job, they did mine....Unfortunately, no GTO came with a nightshade green dash LOL!!!!
> 
> Car looks great, we had snow heavy wet and destroyed the trees in my yard near my garage! Hope you are well and recover quickly!


Thanks, hope all is well there. Yea thanks, new knee and I'll be back to normal.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh yea? Like what say you? The gauges or you mean the wiring and ignition components? Supposedly the distributor was upgraded to an electronic setup before I picked up the car.



Matthew said:


> Nightshade, you are a funny man. Dan, recommend you upgrade the avionics while the dash is out in case you decide to really get on that thing! Matt


As part of the dash RRR I'll address all the underlying components, change the lamps, clean duct work etc.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Right, the aviation related systems to make sure your capable of high performance flying. Yes, kinda like new gauges. Comm, nav, system management displays, etc.  Wiring would have to support it. Alky knows the deal here. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*5+ months to go...*

HOW FREAKING BORED AM I??????

Apparently A LOT!!!





No it's not impressive... but I warmed her up and hit the gas in the garage until it was filled with smoke. :laugh:

This was just before I parked her for winter. :wink2:



Some day I'lll install a posi unit.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

I see a lot of green still in that picture, looks like vedoro green right Matt!!!
Man I hear you, I just started my baby last night and sat in her wishing it was spring......


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> I see a lot of green still in that picture, looks like vedoro green right Matt!!!
> Man I hear you, I just started my baby last night and sat in her wishing it was spring......


LOL

That shot was in late August... sounds like Matt needs a shot of green... here you go Matt.

Verdoro Green 1968 Pontiac GTO | RK Motors Charlotte | Collector and Classic Cars 

That ought to last you a day or so... Dan


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## ibarbuckle (Feb 24, 2014)

Damn that green and gold is sexy. I wonder what it looks like with the top up?


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

HOLY CRAP Dan! That is a beautiful car. I have got to get red lines on mine. And to Nighshade... yes sir. I see Verdoro everywhere in that picture. Well, except for the part where Dan left 50 bucks of his new tires on the road.  Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well after a myriad of things to take care of, last weekend I pulled the dash. I "knew" it would open a big can of worms but "knowing" what was back there and what was potentially wrong I had to... It didn't take long to start seeing issues.



First, the defroster vent was not installed correctly AND it was falling apart.



I lucked out finding one in my local area for $20! You can see the difference, and what a difference!



I'll have to get creative to straighten this...



Something wrong is the circuit board... bent tab.



This has to be replaced..



Wires that go no where...





I know at least one reason the clock didn't work, for sure. It wasn't connected.



This isn't the original windshield or configuration - with the antenna imbedded in the glass.



I'm not sure what to think about this yet... and the other end was clipped to a small hole in the ash tray so there was no "power" to this light unless it comes from the printed circuit.

Dang picture limits...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'll have more to show but Photobucket is acting weird... I used this writeup as a guide but quickly realized all cars are not made equal... my passenger curtsey light is not attached to the duct work, you don't have to take out the screws above the instrument cluster to remove the dash and a few other minor things. It was a very useful guide not withstanding the differences. My car has been dismantled at one point so now I have the unenviable task(s) of cleaning up after some one else.

Midnight Green 1969 GTO Pillar/Post - Ultimate Pontiac GTO Photo Detail

There were several missing screws, nuts, or bolts...





This was screwed to the top of the instrument cluster but nothing was "in" it...



I'll have more to show but Photobucket is acting weird... I used this writeup as a guide but quickly realized all cars are not made equal... my passenger curtsey light is not attached to the duct work, you don't have to take out the screws above the instrument cluster to remove the dash and a few other minor things. It was a very useful guide not withstanding the differences. My car has been dismantled at one point so now I have the unenviable task(s) of cleaning up after some one else.



Well, damned photo bucket... any way, I shipped off the dash, ashtray, glove box door and steering column cover to be restored by Just Dashes today (12 to 16 weeks)... More to come as I weave my way through mess that is my under dash! But first it's time for the DL (new knee).


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Good luck with the new knee Dan Wish you much success. I am NOT looking forward to this aspect on my car...Its dash was stolen and I have purchased all replacement parts...time to stare at lots of pictures and diagrams....


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Someone stole your dash? Was there a picture of a Verdoro green GTO attached to it? 

Dan, what's up with the knee? Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Good luck with the new knee Dan Wish you much success. I am NOT looking forward to this aspect on my car...Its dash was stolen and I have purchased all replacement parts...time to stare at lots of pictures and diagrams....


Thanks Nightshade69 HO, so far it's not fun.

Matthew, two injuries (blew out the second time), 3 surgeries it was time for a replacement. Funny how not being able to work on my car(s) is more of a problem for me mentally. 

I hope to get to my small dash projects (cluster restore etc) in a few weeks.

I have more pictures to post later.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Story goes, someone bought cheap parts from the Elderly WWII Vet owner, then snuck back on the farm and looted the car of perfect doors, dash, shifter, cluster....I heard that and I was mad.

Anyway, I hope Dan recovers quick...in time for spring wrenching....Matt needs to get a Nightshade colored garage


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Story goes, someone bought cheap parts from the Elderly WWII Vet owner, then snuck back on the farm and looted the car of perfect doors, dash, shifter, cluster....I heard that and I was mad.
> 
> Anyway, I hope Dan recovers quick...in time for spring wrenching....Matt needs to get a Nightshade colored garage


Some people can be real Diks. Hopefully one day they will get what's coming to them.

Thanks, Nightshade.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, best wishes on a quick recovery. I guess you will not be going one on one with Lebron this winter. You are most certainly in the right place to have it taken care of. My youngest had two knee surgeries at Cleveland Clinic when he was playing basketball there. Can't say enough about the great docs and staff. 

Anthony, when will this Nightshade 68 be done? Matt


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

I am happy to hear that Cleveland has great docs for our hero Dan. As soon as I add a workshop to my garage, get fresh cement for the floor, insulate the walls, and add some lighting. Then I will be ready to weld in my panels. I need to shake down my clients and get paid what they owe me lol It never ends...

Dan I may be swinging out to the Motor City in Late March....I may have to drop by and paint your car nightshade green!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Dan, best wishes on a quick recovery. I guess you will not be going one on one with Lebron this winter. You are most certainly in the right place to have it taken care of. My youngest had two knee surgeries at Cleveland Clinic when he was playing basketball there. Can't say enough about the great docs and staff.
> 
> Anthony, when will this Nightshade 68 be done? Matt


Thanks Matthew, Yea, it helps being in the right place be default. I'd probably travel from anywhere to get work done at a Cleveland Clinic location.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> I am happy to hear that Cleveland has great docs for our hero Dan. As soon as I add a workshop to my garage, get fresh cement for the floor, insulate the walls, and add some lighting. Then I will be ready to weld in my panels. I need to shake down my clients and get paid what they owe me lol It never ends...
> 
> Dan I may be swinging out to the Motor City in Late March....I may have to drop by and paint your car nightshade green!


Beat those bushes Nightshade, if you are not careful I'll be done before you get started! 

Hey, Detroit City is 2 hours from here, feel free to stop by and we'll lay some rubber.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sent Dash, Ashtray, Glove Box door and Steering column cover to Just Dashes. Hopefully they don't just paint the Ashtray, it needs a bit more work. They already received it so hopefully they can stay on their estimate.



If they don't I'll have to work my magic when I get it all back.

I also hope they paint both sides of the parts to eliminate any old color bleed through or reflection.



All my bezels seem good. They are just missing the chrome edging.



I picked up some chrome paint to redo those while I'm recovering.

I'll have to do some paint work in the cab as well. You can see where the old gold color was not painted over.



There were these little (brittle) things holding the dash in, I'm hoping they are replaced with the new dash.



They held the dash here...



I'm going to install some sound deadener in the dash area too. That means some additional clean up.

Good thing winter is long...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Now I know why the speedo cable didn't come off easily.



Looks like it was rusted in place or the lube used dried.

Lenses are in decent shape but they will be in great shape when I'm done.



Not knowing if the screw would be stuck or crack the housing (being 45 years old) I sprayed all the screws with penetrant. hey came out very easily.



Yes, 67K original miles. More later...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Work is cut out for you Dan! I actually did get started, my Chassis is just about done, my trans is done, my rear is done, the interior is mostly restored, I am going to tackle the steering wheel this winter, (deluxe wheel). My dash was done by just dashes and it came out awesome. I need the little knickknacks ie handles, headliner, visors, etc but all the seats are recovered by legendary, door panels purchased, needs carpet and console and belts redone. Little at a time. I'll never catch up to you, put for most part, the parts chasing is complete at least....may need a new roof skin, jury is still out on that


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Work is cut out for you Dan! I actually did get started, my Chassis is just about done, my trans is done, my rear is done, the interior is mostly restored, I am going to tackle the steering wheel this winter, (deluxe wheel). My dash was done by just dashes and it came out awesome. I need the little knickknacks ie handles, headliner, visors, etc but all the seats are recovered by legendary, door panels purchased, needs carpet and console and belts redone. Little at a time. I'll never catch up to you, put for most part, the parts chasing is complete at least....may need a new roof skin, jury is still out on that


That's great NightShade 58 HO. I had the feeling you hadn't started yet. I used Legendary too, especially after seeing them at the Pontiac Nationals in northwestern Ohio last summer. My interior is almost done, have to wait on the dash RRR to finish it... amazing what you dig up when you remove a part.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Things like this drive me nuts... Whoever took this apart just had to spend another minute or two and do it right. Probably, in-part, why the dash cluster looked "crooked" when mounted to the dash pad.



Hopefully tomorrow I can stand for a bit and start the final disassembly and start cleaning up the pieces parts. Details to come...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Dan, I sure like following your story. It sort of lets me re-live my project, in a good way.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you like the work on your dash. I've got a good dash in my car right now that I was fortunate enough to find many years ago and just stock-pile, but some day I might want to get my 'born with' dash re-done.

How's your steering wheel? My original has decomposed to the point where it constantly oozes some kind of gummy, sticky mess. I'd prefer to be using it but like it is, it's not usable and I've not found a solution (or a good original replacement) out there anywhere.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Dan, I sure like following your story. It sort of lets me re-live my project, in a good way.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing how you like the work on your dash. I've got a good dash in my car right now that I was fortunate enough to find many years ago and just stock-pile, but some day I might want to get my 'born with' dash re-done.
> 
> ...


Glad you're enjoying the journey BearGFR this type of thing is therapeutic for me, no cell phones, no office BS, just me my car and my tools. My dash was original and not really in that bad of shape but I knew about the venting issues and there would be more I didn't know about so out it came...

The bad had only one crack when I bought it but now it has (had) three.





My steering wheel is in good shape, not sure if it's original or not. I thought about "updating" to a "wood" wheel. I've seen on some television shows where you can take your "core" and they will build a new one around your base like they do the dash at Just Dashes.

I packed it up and sent it off before getting chopped...



Used packing material to protect the threads and the pieces parts I packed "inside" the dash for shipping.



Funny story... I didn't have a box large enough, didn't know where I would get one, part of my reason for not pulling the dash before I had the supplies to ship it. I ordered a new grill for another project (chrome/plastic). An oversized box with the part arrived but it's not chrome... I call the company they say "oh sorry, just destroy it and we'll refund your $$". huh, funny part #1 is I'd rather use the one they sent me incorrectly so I kept it and the box just happened to be the perfect size to ship my dash (with lots of packing material around it). Funny part #2, I told the guy I could use the grill after all but he said that's okay, we'll still refund your $$ so I get a free grill and a shipping box. :lol:

A little better shot of the defroster vent, what a difference this will make...



Hopefully more to come shortly...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

A little of this...



things go from this...





to this...



A little of this... and some elbow grease. Almost any clear plastic polish will work, like from a headlight restoration kit.




from this...




to this but I'm not done yet...



Looks like someone used a Brillo pad to clean the lenses in the dash so I'll have to break out the power tools for added humph. When I'm done they will look better than new.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PS... I should mention, one should be careful not to polish thin plastics too much or heavily in one spot for too long because distortions can be introduced into the material.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Now polished it looks much better. Damned eyes can't see the small dust so before I reassemble I'll use some "computer air" to blow out the gauges.



I ended up having to use the Powerball from my headlight kit and a cordless drill on high.



I disassembled the clock, sort of, to see if I can get the lens off for polishing. I know nothing about clocks except they keep time. Since I don't have a great touch I don't want to damage the gear on the end of the adjuster, which will allow me to remove the lens - is this a clockwise or counter clockwise thread?



Anyone have a recommendation on the clock restoration/repair? I know I can get a restored OE clock from one of the restoration places (not cheap) or an quartz replacement - which I don't want. It looks to me a local clock guy (watch and clock store) should be able to make sure it works or repair it. 

Any information would be appreciated. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Living in the rust belt I hate to see rust... I'll need to do some restoration on things like this too..





Looks like there was moisture in the clock housing... I'll touch up this too "while I'm in there".



More to come...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan,

Awesome work as always. I gave some small parts a derust bath this weekend. I reorganized my basement and attic where I store my gto goodies. I am chomping at the bit to get started....

I sent my clock out and changed to quartz. Planning on running my hood tach.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan,
> 
> Awesome work as always. I gave some small parts a derust bath this weekend. I reorganized my basement and attic where I store my gto goodies. I am chomping at the bit to get started....
> 
> I sent my clock out and changed to quartz. Planning on running my hood tach.


Thanks Nightshade. 

I found a place in IL Car clock repair and quartz conversion, corvette clocks, Instrument Services, clock parts. Local places don't work on electro-mechanical clocks so I'll see if these guys will call me back - left a message Saturday. Hopefully it won't take forever if they take on the job.

I'm almost done building a list of parts to order for the dash area. Decided to get new A/C vents and bezels to match. Dash lamps (light bulbs) arrived late last week.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ok, I talked to Instrument Services today (link in post above). They don't fix old clock mechanisms any longer if the points are fried - I think mine are but won't know until they see it.

The options they offer are (includes polishing lens and painting clock hands):
1. Cleaning/adjustment $85
2. Quartz movement $110
3. Used OE movement (didn't have a $ on hand)
4. NOS movement $220

Other options include face restoration, which I don't need so I didn't ask $$.

Tomorrow I try my hand at straightening the gauge bezel without cost myself some coin by screwing it up. If that goes well I will try my hand at chroming the edges.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Not bad my friend. I had that done a while ago on my 68, and I know I have a spare clock, but I think they are different from 68 to 69......


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, I sent the clock out today. Hopefully they get back to me early next weekend with their two week turn-around time I'll get it back before the end of February.



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Not bad my friend. I had that done a while ago on my 68, and I know I have a spare clock, but I think they are different from 68 to 69......


I also found out some OE restoration specialists use these guys for restoration projects so hopefully it works out as needed.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

I did locate my used clock. Let me know if it is required by your rebuilder....In fact I organized my restored parts in anticipation of getting ready for my metal building stage of my project...then I can start my very own thread lol.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> I did locate my used clock. Let me know if it is required by your rebuilder....In fact I organized my restored parts in anticipation of getting ready for my metal building stage of my project...then I can start my very own thread lol.


Thanks, will do.

I'm looking forward to seeing your build thread.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Talked to Instrument Services yesterday. They received my clock, they said it could be repaired but they would not guarantee it. They also said they won't guarantee a new OE movement so I opted for the quartz update with a 1yr warranty and requested I get back the old parts (IF I ever sell it the next guy can have it).

I should get it back in a couple weeks as planned.

New lamps arrive this week. 



I decided to order new A/C vents, bezels and a few other parts like deflectors instead of trying to re-chrome my old parts. I'm only going to do this once so I may as well do it right. I'll toss the old parts in a box, IF I ever sell it the new owner can have the parts... I'll have to go back to working two jobs to finish this thing. :wink2:

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, while I'm sitting here recovering I figured I'd try to use chrome paint on these parts...



I masked off all the parts... next I'll pretreat them with a adhesion promoter and use chrome spray paint. I had to sand or scrap off the old paint/chrome.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I set up a make shift spray booth in the basement. I have a 2100 CFM ventilator in the basement from when it was a fish room so I built it around that.

Turn it on and vent the nasty fumes out the back of the house.





I normally used some paint drop clothes but I couldn't find the second one so a sacrifice had to be made of some bedding. 

I used an adhesion promoter and Rustoleum Chrome paint.



I've used this technique in the winter on other parts before but this time I didn't have very good success. This chrome paint doesn't want to stick to the material and doesn't dry very well - I did sand and use acetone to clean the pieces. It also brings out the inherent defects in the plastic - they ware small but I'll know they are there. I'll try a controlled test on one of the pieces but it looks like buying new replacements will new the way to go. I don't plan to do this more than once.

More to come...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan,

Why don't you send that unit out for professional refinishing....instead of hunting around for a new one....I would have to dig through my receipts to see who did mine.....


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Just paint it green and be done with it!  Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan,
> 
> Why don't you send that unit out for professional refinishing....instead of hunting around for a new one....I would have to dig through my receipts to see who did mine.....


That's an option, I'm going to need to find a place quick. Dash is due back in about 5 weeks.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Just paint it green and be done with it!  Matt


Too funny Matt. I bet when Sherwin Williams came out with "We cover the world" as their slogan you added "in Verdoro Green!". :lol:


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

You know it. "Go Green" is not just about the environment anymore. Matt


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Matthew said:


> You know it. "Go Green" is not just about the environment anymore. Matt


Yeah man I have to agree with this statement!!! Green GTO's of all shades rule lol


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Yeah man I have to agree with this statement!!! Green GTO's of all shades rule lol


Green is my favorite color!

This ain't bad neither!!! :lol:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm a bit disappointed in the clock restoration place/service: Instrument Services.

I received my clock the other day. The face was not polished as I would have expected and the reset shaft is still rusty I did better on the speedo/fuel lens that was worse! I talked with the owner, he told me it should be correct. I told him it wasn't and he said it has to be because we inspect everything three times before it goes out. I said you missed this one. He said, well maybe I didn't see yours. geez An expensive mistake/lesson.

Now I either have to send it back for a redo or just finish it myself. I'm inclined to finish it myself and not pay shipping two more times... he said he would reimburse me If he thought it warranted but I'm not looking forward to dealing with the hassle. They charged me $22 for return shipping the first time!:eek2:

I need to test it too, before I commit to putting it back in, at least there is a one year warranty.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

I had a guy from the South do mine, the tachman....he did a fantastic job on my gauges....just a thought


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Some goodies arrived yesterday and today!!

A JA wheel... I'll get this one blasted with the spare wheel and paint them later this spring/summer. I also got a line on a matched set of JA wheels built in 68 - I'll have to look at those after the weather breaks in the next week or so.



and a box of goodies...



Some of the larger stuff is back ordered, including the heater control bezel I need for the dash, so hopefully I'll get that in the next week or so. The dash should be back in the next three two or three weeks so hopefully that means it all arrives at the same time so I can rebuild the interior. Warmer weather is on the way too so I will be able to add the FatMat under the dash and take over the garage! mu ha ha ah

Looking at the old dash bezels versus the new only reinforces that buying new was the way to go. I will be much happier with the brighter tighter chrome. The picture doesn't do the difference justice but I like.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Good stuff Dan. Need to get moving on this. Nice weather is on the way soon. All good. Matt


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## Charles Bledsoe (Mar 5, 2015)

New member, just joined a few days ago. I am a member of PY and just came across this site. Yours is the first thread I read. I want to thank you for taking the time to put the thread together. Very informative and helpful. I will make sure to follow along as you proceed. Thanks again!
Charles Bledsoe


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Good stuff Dan. Need to get moving on this. Nice weather is on the way soon. All good. Matt


Your lips to the weather gods ears... Helius, Selene, Eos, Boreas, Zephyrus , Hesperus, Atlas, Horae, Hesperides, Zeus, Hera, Nyx, Hemera, Uranus. :lol:

We nearly hit 50 yesterday and they are calling for it today. I'm off the cane, mostly so the leg is healing... hopefully later today I'll pull her out and run her for a bit.

More goodies are coming tomorrow and another box is scheduled for next Tuesday. It's all coming together!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Charles Bledsoe said:


> New member, just joined a few days ago. I am a member of PY and just came across this site. Yours is the first thread I read. I want to thank you for taking the time to put the thread together. Very informative and helpful. I will make sure to follow along as you proceed. Thanks again!
> Charles Bledsoe


Welcome Charles!

Thanks for the kind words and I hope my posts are helpful to others.

I'll have more to post shortly.

Dan


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, I don't think you should be talking about Uranus on this site. Keep that to yourself.  Glad to hear recovery is going well. Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:lol: I figured you would catch that. Yukity yuk...



Matthew said:


> Dan, I don't think you should be talking about Uranus on this site. Keep that to yourself.  Glad to hear recovery is going well. Matt


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

At least dan did not talk about the Klingons near Uranus...... Had to quote the old beavis and butthead joke.....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, it looks as though I'll need to play Star Trek for a while (circle Uranus and wipe out the Klingons) because my restored dash won't be shipped until late/end of April now...



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> At least dan did not talk about the Klingons near Uranus...... Had to quote the old beavis and butthead joke.....


more parts arrived over the last few days... unfortunately some of the chromed plastic parts were no good so they went back yesterday. For the cost of these parts I'm going to get perfect specimens!!

Two more shipments arrive tomorrow... and a couple more next week. It's like Christmas every few days around here.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Wow. Seems like a real pain in Uranus. Sorry, couldn't resist. By the way, what vendor is sending you less than desirable parts? Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea yea, enough talk about Uranus. I think you should stick to discussing it with your doctor. 

It was Ames Performance. I called and told the Customer Service rep what was going on. She didn't hesitate to set up a return and exchange on the bad parts. They will also cover return shipping. I've ordered a bunch of parts from Ames Performance with this being the first issue I've had.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

New and used OE parts arrived today... More used OE parts arrive Tuesday (OE hood scoops, headlight and lighter bezels, rear tail light moldings and some additional hardware).

These are in really good shape for 45+ years old.



These aren't so good but I got them for restoration and sore parts stock. This way I can still have a pair on the car while the other set is being restored.



New...





I plan to "color" the mirror surround black. I'll have to figure out if I want to dye with something like back to black, dye or paint.

Cabin fever is nearly over, been in the 50s here, so I'm going crazy waiting for my dash to return... I'm told by nightshade 68 HO I won't be disappointed so I can't wait... I'm like a little kid waiting for his Sea Monkey kit to arrive. :lol:


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

:wink2: What's a sea monkey kit? Is that like Lincoln logs or something?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> :wink2: What's a sea monkey kit? Is that like Lincoln logs or something?


Exactly.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Second last of my parts arrived today... all parts are OE and in really good shape.





Thanks to PMDSpecialties in Canada... The hood scoops are in primer but I'll strip and paint them. The rear fender trim is like new for 45+ year old stainless. They look polished but I'll hit them with some metal polish and a polishing wheel.

The next parts to arrive I need to do the dash rebuild/install - Dash deflector bezel and heater control bezel I had to get replaced by Ames.

Temps are finally climbing here, we're in the 40s and 50s now (amazing nearly 3 feet of snow gone in a week), so I can install the Fat Mat on the dash area soon... very soon. mu ha ha ha ha


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Sweet! Guess what! I woke up to about half an inch of snow after most of it melted away! Its not the amount but the principal, as it was 55 degrees yesterday and I actually opened my Office Window!!

Parts look awesome. Cannot wait for you to get your dash back....and by the way, see you tomorrow! I will be bringing a batch of nightshade green paint to paint your car!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't get surprised anymore, last two years here we had 4 inches from a single storm in April!



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Sweet! Guess what! I woke up to about half an inch of snow after most of it melted away! Its not the amount but the principal, as it was 55 degrees yesterday and I actually opened my Office Window!!
> 
> Parts look awesome. Cannot wait for you to get your dash back....and by the way, see you tomorrow! I will be bringing a batch of nightshade green paint to paint your car!


You are too funny Anthony. Be sure to bring extra, that means a color change for my car. 

Safe travels, see you tomorrow.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Spoke to Ames Performance yesterday afternoon... they don't have any suitable parts to replace the ones I need so they reordered from the manufacturer to get new stock. Hopefully they should be here in a week or two.

I had lunch with Nightshade 68 HO today as he was passing through Ohio. He pulled up in a Nightshade green car with the same interior wearing a Nightshade Green GTO club jacket - sorry Matt. 

I'm kidding of course but it was very nice to meet Anthony, a really good guy!!! We looked over my car, shot the bull over lunch and figured out what the difference is between the 68 and 69 in-dash clocks.


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## Matthew (Feb 11, 2011)

Dan, you checked to see that you still had your center caps after he left, right? Matt


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:rofl:



Matthew said:


> Dan, you checked to see that you still had your center caps after he left, right? Matt


I did and I do but they are all Nightshade Green!!!


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

It was nice to meet you Dan, I am sorry about those hubcaps.!!!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> It was nice to meet you Dan, I am sorry about those hubcaps.!!!!!


It was good to meet you too Anthony!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, I spoke to Just Dashes today. Now my dash won't arrive until second week of May. At this rate I might get it back and installed by July!!

The weather is almost warm enough to start restoring the larger bits of my dash (dealing with high humidity and rain now) - A/C vent unit etc.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I wonder what is in here?



Apparently Just dashes under promises and over delivers... The guy I spoke to several times, John, assured me the ship date of my project was delayed until first week of May... it arrived today!!



Hopefully the crease in the box is only cosmetic. I wasn't planning to start on this until May so it will have to sit while I finish up a couple other projects (a MIGI restore and Mrs. Dan's DD).

More to come...


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## Indecision (Oct 24, 2010)

Just read the whole thread, really good job with everything and gorgeous car. One of these days I'll get a Judge era GTO... they are almost as cool as 66/67s 

Your comment about the free advertising on the sound deadener made me laugh. Don't you hate it when people walk up, unscrew your door sill, and pull up the carpet to see what brand of sound deadener you used? Happens to me all the time. 

Good call on the quartz upgrade, when you first said you weren't doing it I cringed. More accurate, more reliable, no maintenance... just sucks you had a bad experience with the rest of it. 

I thought it was crazy when you said you were going to do a restoration though... for the most part I see you catching up on a lot of basic maintenance. I wish my car looked half as good as yours.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

gorgeous and what a tale...I love reading these guys...I am in awe of you guys and your talents...

Bill


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Indecision said:


> Just read the whole thread, really good job with everything and gorgeous car. One of these days I'll get a Judge era GTO... they are almost as cool as 66/67s
> 
> Your comment about the free advertising on the sound deadener made me laugh. Don't you hate it when people walk up, unscrew your door sill, and pull up the carpet to see what brand of sound deadener you used? Happens to me all the time.
> 
> ...


HE HE too funny. Aren't you tired of being bombarded with ads for companies on EVERYTHING? I sure am.  Plus I'd know it was there. :lol:

I have to admit I wanted OE but I heard and read about the reliability and it does run nicely.

Well, I guess you could call it maintenance but when I got into replacing the interior and fixing all the things wrong it turned into a frame on restoration. :biggrin2:

Thanks or the kind words.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

silversport said:


> gorgeous and what a tale...I love reading these guys...I am in awe of you guys and your talents...
> 
> Bill


Thanks Bill, I appreciate your kind words. I'd say the talented ones are the guys doing frame off ground up restorations on their own!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The fun continues... Ames Performance won't be getting any new vent or heater bezels in which would be acceptable to me for installation in my car so I canceled the purchase and bought replacements from The Parts Place... they are batting 50-50... one good and one pad. Now I'll look to get another from them and if not any good I'll find another vendor...

Almost done with non-GTO projects.... the goal is to have her done and on the road asap but the ultimate goal is the Hines Cruise in late August. I can't make Woodward this year but I will next. Car will be completely done and broken in. 

More to come...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

I will be at the Hines with my Nightshade green gun!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:lol:



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> I will be at the Hines with my Nightshade green gun!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

dan woodland said:


> The fun continues... Ames Performance won't be getting any new vent or heater bezels in which would be acceptable to me for installation in my car so I canceled the purchase and bought replacements from The Parts Place... they are batting 50-50... one good and one pad. Now I'll look to get another from them and if not any good I'll find another vendor...
> 
> Almost done with non-GTO projects.... the goal is to have her done and on the road asap but the ultimate goal is the Hines Cruise in late August. I can't make Woodward this year but I will next. Car will be completely done and broken in.
> 
> More to come...


Jackpot! I knew there had to be a good heater bezel out there somewhere! The guy at Parts Place called me about the heater bezel I returned. He tells me I'm being too picky. I told him to refund the purchase price and good bye. He even told me he shared my note with others in the business and they all concurred I was being too picky - amazing. 

I next contacted National Parts Depot (NPD) Wednesday, order the part ($2 more than the other three vendors). It arrived today and it's what I wanted, clean and shape chrome!! One more non-GTO job and it's on! More to come... Oh, I took her out today, she was itching for a long shake down ride. She rides great!! All my hard work last summer, and cashes, has paid off!! I'm pretty sure I broke a few rules... :yesnod:

and yes, I quoted myself.  (inside joke with a find from another forum who visits here)


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Npd huh? I'll file that away for future reference. Really sad that a vendor would berate their customer for being too picky. I bet that comes back to bite them. 

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Npd huh? I'll file that away for future reference. Really sad that a vendor would berate their customer for being too picky. I bet that comes back to bite them.
> 
> Bear


It will because I'll tell anyone that will listen... 

Yes, NPD has come through in a pinch three times for me - so far all pieces were smaller but none the less they had what I needed when I needed it and only a bit more expensive.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Third time is the charm....

I dropped her off and picked her up form the transmission shop this past week... They replaced a modulator gratis because it should have been replaced with my transmission rebuild last summer. Now she is almost dry save the rear seal leak. 

I've been told not to bother repairing the rear seal because they 'always' leak. Is this true? Any one? Anyone? It's not very bad, yet so that will be on the list for repair some day when I crack open the engine.

To do list - sponsored by the movie A Never Ending Story: 
1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock, restored gauges/lenses, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. Update cooling system (correct hoses, water neck, clamps)
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Intall center caps
6. Restore A-pillar covers
7. Paint Head rests/arm rest bases
8. Install new body mounts
9. Install new tail/marker light seals
10. Re-chrome Rear bumper/valve covers (damaged when PO allowed spark plugs holders to rub on covers)/air cleaner top (damaged when PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
11. Install new spark plug wires looms
12. Plugs and wires
13. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
14. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
15. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheels
16. Swap out spare and JC wheels
17. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
18. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
19. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
20. Install new spoiler pads
21. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
22. Restore bright headlight switch
23. Upgrade to tilt steering?

and anything else I can think of...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Third time is the charm....
> 
> I dropped her off and picked her up form the transmission shop this past week... They replaced a modulator gratis because it should have been replaced with my transmission rebuild last summer. Now she is almost dry save the rear seal leak.
> 
> ...


.....Paint car Nightshade green and Let that crazy New York Fool Do a HUGE burnout with car at hines cruise......
:Scottwax1:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> .....Paint car Nightshade green and Let that crazy New York Fool Do a HUGE burnout with car at hines cruise......
> :Scottwax1:


You are too funny Anthony and yes you can.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> ...I've been told not to bother repairing the rear seal because they 'always' leak. Is this true? Any one? Anyone? It's not very bad, yet so that will be on the list for repair some day when I crack open the engine....


Mine leaks too, BUT there *IS* a solution and you can bet that the next opportunity I have to pull it, this is what's going into mine:
Pontiac One-Piece Rear Main Seal

I've talked to Jim about these and he's used quite a few of them in customer engines. Not one single leak. When you read about how their made (double-lip) and how you install them, it's fairly obvious that these just _have_ to work.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Mine leaks too, BUT there *IS* a solution and you can bet that the next opportunity I have to pull it, this is what's going into mine:
> Pontiac One-Piece Rear Main Seal
> 
> I've talked to Jim about these and he's used quite a few of them in customer engines. Not one single leak. When you read about how their made (double-lip) and how you install them, it's fairly obvious that these just _have_ to work.
> ...


PERFECT! Thanks Bear!! I've heard seals like this existed but didn't know the name or source, thanks for both!!

As you would guess this will be added to the list... I HATE oil leaks!

To do list - sponsored by the movie A Never Ending Story: 
1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock, restored gauges/lenses, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. Update cooling system (correct hoses, water neck, clamps)
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Intall center caps
6. Restore A-pillar covers
7. Paint Head rests/arm rest bases
8. Install new body mounts
9. Install new tail/marker light seals
10. Re-chrome Rear bumper/valve covers (damaged when PO allowed spark plugs holders to rub on covers)/air cleaner top (damaged when PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
11. Install new spark plug wires looms
12. Plugs and wires
13. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
14. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
15. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheels
16. Swap out spare and JC wheels
17. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
18. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
19. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
20. Install new spoiler pads
21. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
22. Restore bright headlight switch
23. Upgrade to tilt steering?
24. Rear main seal


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Opened my dash package today so I could prepare everything for reassembly... :cuss::cryin:

It looked great until I looked closer... a nick in the glove box door, trim piece under the radio and two under the radio opening. I don't even know what to say. Sent an email to them with pics, I'll see what chaos ensues.

:banghead:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/69-starting-issue-89354/

Slight detour from the planned program...

PontiacJim hooked me up with some great information. I'll hit Summit Racing for parts tonight on the way home from work...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks to PontiacJim.... It's ALIVE!

Back on track now... interior completion is next up!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Not so fast bubba... She runs like crap in gear so it's time for a timing chain and all the other mechanical stuff I planned to do down the road. She won't be at Hines this year... maybe next.

She's back in storage for now...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Not at HINES!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO sorry for the mechanical woes....I'll be in contact soon


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## Layzdude (Jun 14, 2015)

Dan great write up! Sorry to hear about the motor problems, hopefully you get them resolved quick. I just bought my first GTO a "68". I plan to use this thread as a resource throught my restoration. Question for you about the sound mat. After you put it on the doors did you then put plastic between the door panel and the sound mat. Is the mat good enough for protection? Oh and by the way even though my car is now black. In its origainal form it was Verdoro green.

Thanks.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks lazydude, I'll get it straightened out.

I did not use plastic covers on the inside of the doors. I may install some next time I have the panels off but I'll probably install sound deadener over the holes. That plastic keeps water from hitting the door panels so I'd install either. When I installed the sound deadener I didn't cover the holes because I knew I had a bunch of window/track/adjusting work to do.

A Verdure green... my favorite color. 

Good luck with your restoration. Post a thread or ask questions here, these guys know what they are doing. 



Layzdude said:


> Dan great write up! Sorry to hear about the motor problems, hopefully you get them resolved quick. I just bought my first GTO a "68". I plan to use this thread as a resource throught my restoration. Question for you about the sound mat. After you put it on the doors did you then put plastic between the door panel and the sound mat. Is the mat good enough for protection? Oh and by the way even though my car is now black. In its origainal form it was Verdoro green.
> 
> Thanks.


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## Layzdude (Jun 14, 2015)

Thanks Dan, this is my first resto. So I am sure I will be making a pain of myself... I mean asking lot of questions


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Layzdude said:


> Thanks Dan, this is my first resto. So I am sure I will be making a pain of myself... I mean asking lot of questions


LOL This is my second... but I'm still learning because no two cars are alike!


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## patrick3772 (Jul 14, 2015)

I'm redoing a 69 GTO that is NOT a Judge. I got a 72 LeMans that was beautiful before being smashed front driver side that I'm using as a donor. The LeMans has a nice after market LED spoiler on it. I was wondering what guys would think of putting that spoiler on or just leaving the trunk plain.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sounds like you need to decide if you are a stock purist (OE Correct parts for the car) or Resto-mod guy. Personally I'll remove the spoiler when I redo mine (some day), they tried making mine a Judge clone but stopped at the, spoiler, stickers and cutting the hood scoops open. 



patrick3772 said:


> I'm redoing a 69 GTO that is NOT a Judge. I got a 72 LeMans that was beautiful before being smashed front driver side that I'm using as a donor. The LeMans has a nice after market LED spoiler on it. I was wondering what guys would think of putting that spoiler on or just leaving the trunk plain.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Revival!!!*

The last month and a half has been interesting to say the least. Between keeping myself gainfully employed (long story short) and finding time to work on her it's been a long month and a half. I finally got back to her this past weekend.

First I had a staring problem, detailed here:http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/69-starting-issue-89354/

Turns out it was a combination of plugs, wires and carb... I found some "fabric" shards in the carb jets - one was completely plugged! I have no idea how long it was floating around in there - basically she was starving when i hit the gas. 

Some of the plug wires were so bad they were bleeding so much power (from the new higher energy ignition mentioned in the other thread) so I replaced those and the plugs - one of the plugs had a short in it! It would short out if I shook it while on the tester. 

I have no idea how this things was running!!

I started by building my own plug wires. I've never done that before and amazingly I've never taken a plug wire apart until now. I had no idea they were so easy to build.

They were in bad shape...









I began by laying out my new bits...



There was a "cutter" in the new kit but I ended up using the utility knife option, it was much faster and cleaner...



I held my finger on the end and twisted the rest of the wire Applying pressure on the end I was to remove. When the "end" was ready to come off it will stay put while the rest spins in my other hand.



This exposed a length of the center conductor... fold it over and attach the end.



A little dielectric grease to slide it in the boot and it's done... repeat 7 more times.



Dang picture limits... what does a guy need to do to get more pics???


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

and we're back from commercial break...

All the distributor ends were discolored, they looked burned or corroded...



Plugs weren't in great shape either, probably because they weren't buying correctly.



I'm sure there is blow-by too but I'll address that later. Old plugs were gapped about .035, I gapped the new plugs at .045... After reading multiple threads here and elsewhere. Lot's of good information on this site!!



Tomorrow on our next episode..





More on project Get Her Running Again including the carb rebuild later... got to pay the bills and 5am comes early.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

On today's episode...

I hoped the carb was the issues so I decided to rebuild it. I suspected it had been rebuilt one day 20 years ago so I figured it was time for another. I figured it would be full of crap from 20 years of use. I was partly right...

Turns out these little black shards of cloth were stuck in jets!! they looked like little mouse turds... 



It was amazing clean inside and you can see the gas wasn't that bad either.



Most pieces were in decent shape, the accelerator pump seal was in good shape but it was much more flexible than the new one.



Surprisingly this carb didn't have as many parts as I've seen in videos on-line. The hardest part was putting it all back together and keeping the metering tubes and linkages aligned...



After put her all back together I fired her up in record time. She roared to life and sounded like she wanted to run like never before!! I realized after i shut her down I noticed a bunch of carbon deposits on the ground under the tailpipes!!



Can anyone tell me what this is? It's on the passenger side below the carb on top of the intake.



Last step is to replace all the vacuum lines.



After an aborted "fun" test drive, a police car pulled out just afterI exited my neighborhood, I cleaned up and mounted some nice plates I found.



A little bug cleaner, wax cleaner and a coat of Carnuba wax they looked great!



Now I can get back to the dash reassembly and install...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh, and I forgot to mention as part of the "I don't know how this thing was running". Every screw, I mean EVERY screw in the carb was finger tight and all the spark plugs could be loosened with a socket by hand! I was lucky one of the air horn screws inside the mains didn't come out and get sucked into the engine!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Part on the passenger side intake = that's the heat coil for your "divorced" automatic choke. There's a link from a bimetal spring inside that housing that connects to the choke linkage. As it warms up, the spring "uncoils" and opens the choke.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thank you kind sir. Though it might be that since i didn't have a "regular" choke control on the side of the carb.

It's a good day today, I learned something new. Dan



BearGFR said:


> Part on the passenger side intake = that's the heat coil for your "divorced" automatic choke. There's a link from a bimetal spring inside that housing that connects to the choke linkage. As it warms up, the spring "uncoils" and opens the choke.
> 
> Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list - sponsored by the movie A Never Ending Story: 
1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock DONE, restored gauges/lenses DONE, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. Update cooling system (correct hoses, water neck, clamps)
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Intall center caps DONE
6. Restore A-pillar covers
7. Paint Head rests/arm rest bases
8. Install new body mounts
9. Install new tail/marker light seals
10. Re-chrome Rear bumper/valve covers (damaged when PO allowed spark plugs holders to rub on covers)/air cleaner top (damaged when PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
11. Install new spark plug wire looms
12. Plugs and wires DONE
13. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
14. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
15. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheel - swap with JC wheel. 
16. Swap out spare and JC wheels DONE
17. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
18. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
19. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
20. Install new spoiler pads
21. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
22. Restore bright headlight switch
23. Upgrade to tilt steering?
24. Rear main seal
25. Install new kick panels
26. Rebuild carb DONE
27. Repair rear pinion seal again. (Wednesday) DONE
28. Fix PS leak

Some progress... slow but sure.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Getting back at it soon. Been researching things like:

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-spark-plus-wire-looms-94401/#post666417

and getting things like spray-in sound-deadener for the dash area crevasses, building a work area in the basement for reassembling the restored dash and components, waiting out late summer heat wave and late rains, fixing daily drivers and other things... Got to knock some things off the long to-do list before winter. 

I'll be redoing some spark plug wires I installed last month. The two rearward plus wire boots hit the steering column and A/C unit so I procured some 45 degree plug wires so I can build a custom set for my rig. At the same time I'll modify and install the wire looms mentioned in the thread/link above.

An Eastwood store opened in my city, 5 minutes from the house, so I've been shopping and procuring product for my projects. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Almost done building the Dan cave... home of all my parts (until used), ammo reloading station/storage, work bench, work area



6' x 4' Spray booth is almost done... made it bigger this time... added grommets to the drop cloths and hooks in the ceiling. I'll do my A-pillars, center console and A/C ducts in there this winter. There are two 2-lamp light fixtures inside the booth so plenty of light.



Cover the floor with some stylish sheets...



Ventilator moves bad air out the back of the house, 300 cfm works really well.





When this room had 40 fish tanks it was run by a Humidistat... comes in handy for the spray booth...



More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

More acquisitions... paint for the Center console, A/C vent assembly and A-pillars.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-black-interior-color-sheen-97082/#post682665


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Looks like you're rockin and rollin, Dan. Keep up the good work.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks BearGFR... these kind of projects are therapeutic.

I cleaned and primed the A-pillars today. 



The paint was really uneven on these... There was almost no paint on the "sides". Looks like the most paint was only on the front like they were laying on a table when painted.



Dad's old paint trick... warm it up a bit so it flows better and you can use every drop in the can.



This comes in handy, it allows better control while painting.



Ready for color...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

A-pillar covers done... funny, I didn't trust the guy at the paint shop when he said the paint dries different than the cap... way different. Picture isn't that great but hopefully you get the idea.



They look pretty good... I'm surprised how much paint I needed to cover them fully. 



These really help...there are different ones for each type of paint sprayer. It exaggerates your subtle hand movements so you end up having much more control - because the spray nozzle is farther from your hand.



After they cure over night I'll pack them up until they are installed - after the dash goes back in. I'm looking forward to see these installed!!

Now onto the next step... the A/C vent assembly. It's pretty shinny, wasn't painted very well and suffered some paint damage (some from movement because one of the screws was missing). The finish should look very close to the refinished dash.

Paint rubbed off from movement... I secured the missing screw allowing it to move. I found out today I'll need to find a small metal sleeve which inserts into the screw hole to keep you from crushing the assembly when securing it to the lower portion of the dash. 



Using a scotch bright type pad - before.



and a few minutes later...





You can see a few nicks in the paint above. 

I can't paint this quite yet, I found out the chrome A/C vents don't operate so well at the moment. I'll need to adjust the opening size and the cradles where they ride so I can paint it, at the moment adding paint will make them less likely to be adjustable - like now.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

You rook marvelous!!!

 

I like this much better than the high gloss paint!! I did end up cleaning the air deflector cradles with Acetone and opened up the opening with wet/dry sandpaper. Now the air deflectors work much better!

Next I did the center console...

Never thought I'd ever use my Jacuzzi to wash a 69 GTO center console. 



First I used Simple Green to clean using a foamy spray nozzle then I used a Scotch Bright pad to scuff it... Next I wiped it down with a damp dust free towel and wiped it down with rubbing alcohol to ensure I had all the grease or fingerprints removed. Funny how nice it looked after being scuffed. I almost didn't paint it but there were some thin spots and when it was painted during t's first restore/color change they didn't do a very good job.

Like missing all the edges... and a thin coat of paint.





I hung it from the ceiling, this gave me 'easy' access to 99 percent of it. I used two safety wires as well in case the two main wires came loose or failed for any reason.



Love the low gloss finish!!



While I was at it I did the kick panels... these too I almost didn't paint after scuffing but I wanted an even finish and look.



Next is to refinish the console cover, rear sail panel molding covers in "white" (rear window corners) and the NOS hood scoops I found in Canada for a song... then... reassemble the A/C vent air deflectors (new parts) and start on the dash reassembly. After all that is done I'll have to figure out how to get he garage warm enough to work out there on the insulation and possible painting on the steel dash bits.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list - sponsored by the movie A Never Ending Story: 
1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock DONE, restored gauges/lenses DONE, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. Update cooling system (correct hoses, water neck, clamps)
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Intall center caps DONE
6. Restore A-pillar covers DONE
7. Paint Head rests/arm rest bases
8. Install new body mounts
9. Install new tail/marker light seals
10. Re-chrome Rear bumper/valve covers (damaged when PO allowed spark plugs holders to rub on covers)/air cleaner top (damaged when PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
11. Install new spark plug wire looms
12. Plugs and wires DONE
13. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
14. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
15. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheel - swap with JC wheel. 
16. Swap out spare and JC wheels DONE
17. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
18. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
19. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
20. Install new spoiler pads
21. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
22. Restore bright headlight switch
23. Upgrade to tilt steering?
24. Rear main seal
25. Install new kick panels
26. Rebuild carb DONE
27. Repair rear pinion seal again. (Wednesday) DONE
28. Fix PS leak
29. Restore Center console DONE
30. Refinish new kick panels DONE
31. Restore A/C vent assembly DONE
32. Refinish Hood Scoops

More progress...


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

A small quandry...

http://www.gtoforum.com/f12/69-gto-molding-color-97866/

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Center console lid and rear moldings painted...





Arm rests next...


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Pulled her out of the garage the other day, 60 degree temps here the last week or so (supposed to be in the 30s and 40s), and I found a puddle of coolant under the front of the car after running her for a bit... it was pure coolant and it was behind the WP (car was facing down hill) so i suspect a freeze plug.

The power plant was also making a funny noise at the exhaust - a miss?. I'll have to record it and see what you guys think. Either the engine is hurt or something is wrong with the new plugs, new wires or new ignition.

To do list - sponsored by the movie A Never Ending Story: 
1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock, restored gauges/lenses, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. Update cooling system (correct hoses, water neck, clamps)
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Paint Head rests/arm rest bases
6. Install new body mounts
7. Install new tail/marker light seals
8. Re-chrome Rear bumper/valve covers (damaged when a PO allowed spark plugs holders to rub on covers)/air cleaner top (damaged when a PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
10. Install new spark plug wire looms
11. Redo Plug wires(add 45 degree wires at back positions)
12. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
13. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
13. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheel - swap with JC wheel. 
14. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
15. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
16. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
17. Install new spoiler pads
18. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
19. Find/Fix Coolant leak (freeze plug or WP?)
20. Restore bright headlight switch
21. Upgrade to tilt steering?
22. Rear main seal
23. Install new kick panels
24. Fix PS leak
25. Refinish Hood Scoops

More progress later...


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started on the hood scoops today... Amazing what you find after a little rubbing with a scouring pad. These are nicer than I suspected. 



Too bad I don't have the Verdoro Green car to go with them.  

Here they are drying from the alcohol bath.



Looks as though someone was going to paint these another color, the primer came off fairly easily... I haven't decided if I will paint them gloss black like the car or flat like the interior. One day when the car is painted, they will match the car.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

While I figure out what I want to do with the hood scoops I started on the Arms Rests.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f12/refinishing-painted-parts-qs-98330/

The one on the left is new from Ames Performance. The right after my first try at using the "Parchment" coloring. In the right light, as they arrive from the vendor, they are a really ugly bright yellow. Nothing like what it should look like.



My paint guy says to use the Sailcloth color as the base or a custom color and an air sprayer. Performance years says to use the gray color as the undercoat and the Parchment coloring - said it is correct".





As you can see I tried the performance years option but to "cover" the gray you have to use a lot of the Parchment color which turns it yellow but with a darker base like the one on the right.

Here I'm trying an experiment with the other colors and I'll add the Parchment color after they dry. I also found out there is a difference how you apply the Parchment because when you "flop" (when you turn the piece in the light) the part the light reflects coloring differently - this is different from the seat and other plastic part coloring you get from vendors. That color is "in" the material or sprayed like a professional would.



So, that all being said I'll probably "stand" the pieces upright when I spray them - to mimic how they are installed. If I'm unhappy with the gray and sailcloth color as a base I'll try the custom color I bought from my paint guy but that will have to be applied by air sprayer and I'll have to wait until spring for that.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got a lot done this weekend thanks to taking Friday off... funny how they look really white here...



They look gold here... using a flash.



And near perfect in the right light which oddly enough will be the same as in the car... a bit low. Again, I used a really really small amount of the Parchment coloring. Ames Performance told me they were only 6 ounce cans and I needed two. As you see they were full size so at this rate I'm not going to use the Parchment coloring until 2030! 



I ended up using all three paints shown above.

I sprayed a light coat of Gray on the one that was not painted at all then the white on top and sprayed the other with just white. That gave it a bit of a darker base than just white or that bright gold.

You can see the difference here.



Next, install them back in the car. Supposed to be near 60 on Wednesday so I may be able to pull her over int he garage to start installing pieces parts.

Hood scoops next...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

05GTO recommended this to strip the hood scoops. 



It worked really well and didn't hurt the metal.



tired it on the old hood scoops first. These were not primed.



First application the primer cracked...



And a second application... 



Third application ate through the OE paint. I used a tooth brush to lightly scrub the scoops.



First cleaning with water revealed the primer...



Another application to remove the primer... this stuff goes a long way.



Interesting, primer on one was different that the other and didn't come off with the stripper.



I scrubbed quite a bit but the primer would not come off easily so I sanded and prepped to paint.

You can see the "pot" metal starting to "bubble".



Odd, the black louvers would not come clean until I "started" the paint off...

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

More "corrosion"...



Primed...





First coat... I may have to touch up the louvers.



I'll do a little polishing/wet sanding to smooth things out. My spray booth has a heater vent in the ceiling and it looks like a bit of dust got on the parts.


Next... I'll decide later.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Not sure but I think I found the coolant leak...





It peed all over the front of the car... lucky I had already opened the hood to look for the leak so my new hood blanket didn't get soaked with green goo.

With temps in the lower 60s this week I think I know what I'll be doing next. :laugh:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

As soon as I started the coolant leak fix I had to stop... I wanted to install the correct water neck, upper hose and clamps. Thought it would be a walk-in-the-park.



The old hoses are very soft and swollen... they almost look like the wrong hose was installed.





What stopped me was the fuel line going through the center of the water neck. I thought the new water neck was offset enough but I was wrong. Now I'm looking to see if I have an incorrect fuel line...





Here you can see this water neck was about to blow in several different places. The only thing keeping it from blowing in a couple places was the gasket.



I may as well restore these kind of parts while I'm at it...



I usually use Cider Vinegar and a shake in a light sand water solution but this time I'm going to try this with corn cob or walnut shells. The vinegar is pretty caustic and takes off any plating (probably isn't any left on this bolt anyway). I'm going to look into reciting them with the proper finish... I'm guessing a zinc coating for the stud.



Anyone have information on what I have wrong (fuel line or water neck)? I suspect the fuel line is incorrect, there is only one water neck for 69 available.

Thanks, Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well the "built in strainer" top was a good idea in theory but the media flies all over the place after it becomes pulverized into a powder. I used some "sticky" plastic wrap as a cover and that fixed it.



The bolts started like this...





and ended like this...



You can see the walnut shells imbedded in the lock nut. I think this media type is good for polishing or removing very light rust but not real good at deep cleaning. This media and style of cleaning doesn't remove paint either... next I'll try course sand which will "cut" more as it tumbles.



As I mentioned earlier I normally use Cider (sometimes 6% white) Vinegar to clean rust but it's more acidic and eats away finishes like Zinc and if left too long in the solution it can eat away some of the thread material. I picked this method to avoid loosing thread material. See more here on that. http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/dans-69-restore-tale-53945/index13.html#post516882

New fuel pump-to-carb fuel line arrived today... I ordered it late Monday night! Definitely a benefit of being in the same state as the manufacturer! More on that later...


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Nice Work Dan!!!! Been a long time but I am back!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Anthony!

Welcome back!!! Now you need to get your restoration thread going!


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

i need to catch up on what you did here first....lots of pages to review.....lol


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well here is a bit more to get you started. :smile2:

I replaced the pump to carb fuel line last night... I had to manipulate it some because the fuel pump outlet was tilted and the line wasn't quite right for the carb connection.



I used that piece of string to pull up while I lined up the line with the carb, then I could thread the fitting.

To stem the flow of fuel while I made the switch I used a C-clamp on the flexible hose. It worked pretty well.

I also swapped out the thermostat, water neck and upper rad hose including the proper clamps.

Lost the rear bolt some how... fell and I can't find it. It's probably stuck under the intake. I picked up a stainless bolt from the hardware store. Worked perfectly.



The new water neck and hose fits MUCH better than the old "incorrect" stuff.



I did find out the threads of the upper alternator mount are stripped. The threads came out when I too out the bolt for the rearward mounting bracket which connects to the top of the water neck.



I'll have to address that as part of my to-do list in the spring. Also found some rusty water coming out of the passenger side exhaust... looks like the engine is hurting. Looks like I'll be doing an engine rebuild sooner than later.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list - sponsored by the movie A Never Ending Story: 
1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock, restored gauges/lenses, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. Finish Update on cooling system (correct hoses, water neck, clamps)
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Paint Head rests
6. Install new body mounts
7. Install new tail/marker light seals
8. Re-chrome Rear bumper/valve covers (damaged when a PO allowed spark plugs holders to rub on covers)/air cleaner top (damaged when a PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
10. Install new spark plug wire looms
11. Redo two rear Plug wires(make/use 45 degree wires at back positions)
12. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
13. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
13. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheel - swap with JC wheel. 
14. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
15. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
16. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
17. Install new spoiler pads
18. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
19. Restore bright headlight switch
20. Upgrade to tilt steering?
21. Rear main seal
22. Install new kick panels
23. Fix PS leak - remove/re-torque connections
24. Engine check... rebuild?
25. Alternator threads.

More progress later...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> I'll have to address that as part of my to-do list in the spring. Also found some rusty water coming out of the passenger side exhaust... looks like the engine is hurting. Looks like I'll be doing an engine rebuild sooner than later.



Dan, couple things. The lost bolt; the telescoping retrieval tool with the magnet on the end should be in your tool box if you work on cars. Invaluable when you drop a bolt that you can see, but just can't get your big-ass hands in the small space to retrieve it! :lol:

Rusty water coming out the exhaust pipe may only mean condensation from the pipes/muffler which is not uncommon as the car warms up when it is cold/humid outside. If you are not losing any water in the radiator, then that would be my bet. If its been warmed up and you have been driving it around and an hour or two later you still have water dripping, then I'd say you may have a problem and I would do a few checks to confirm - like a pressure test on the cooling system.

You already installed the T-Stat, but I would have drilled a couple holes about 1/8" in the surround ring - which I do on all my T-Stats. 1.) it allows trapped air through so you don't have any issues trying to "burp" the cooling system 2.) if the T-Stat shuts down on you, the anti-freeze can reach boiling point and create a steam pocket only amplifying the overheating engine and pushing all the anti-freeze through the engine and back out the lower hose and then out your radiator cap. I have found that allowing the pressure & some anti-freeze through the holes will give you a little time/warning as the gauge climbs or rises & falls rather than just shoot right up to hot or do a violent boilover out the radiator cap. It is going to overheat no matter what if the T-Stat decides to quit working while driving the car, but a heads up warning gives a little more time to find a safe place to pull over.

Looking at the corrosion inside your waterneck, I would be somewhat concerned about the timing cover as it too is aluminum and subject to the same corrosion the waterneck shows. Don't know if you have already pulled this or not.

You are doing a great job on the car. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Dan, couple things. The lost bolt; the telescoping retrieval tool with the magnet on the end should be in your tool box if you work on cars. Invaluable when you drop a bolt that you can see, but just can't get your big-ass hands in the small space to retrieve it! :lol:


I have a couple of those and did try "finding" the bolt. Admittedly I didn't try long, I needed to get the car moved so Mrs. Dan could have her car in the garage. With the weather being very good this winter (first snow wasn't until last week) she was a trooper for letting me work on cars and keeping her car in the elements. Now winter has hit, 20 degrees or lower daily, so I put it taught to get it moved and make room for her fancy 2001. 



I also have a bendy aluminum version which remains in the shape you bend it. My best/strongest one won't fit under the intake...



PontiacJim said:


> Rusty water coming out the exhaust pipe may only mean condensation from the pipes/muffler which is not uncommon as the car warms up when it is cold/humid outside. If you are not losing any water in the radiator, then that would be my bet. If its been warmed up and you have been driving it around and an hour or two later you still have water dripping, then I'd say you may have a problem and I would do a few checks to confirm - like a pressure test on the cooling system.


I hope you're right - I haven't had her running for about 30 days before the other night. I have a "miss" on the passenger side where the rusty water came out. I'm hoping it's one of the new plug wires I made, I only noticed it after I upgraded the ignition system with new wires, plugs and ignition module. Additionally, I noticed the miss when Fall arrived so I didn't run it long enough to get it hot and circulate water/coolant so I need to do that and monitor my water/coolant level.





PontiacJim said:


> You already installed the T-Stat, but I would have drilled a couple holes about 1/8" in the surround ring - which I do on all my T-Stats. 1.) it allows trapped air through so you don't have any issues trying to "burp" the cooling system 2.) if the T-Stat shuts down on you, the anti-freeze can reach boiling point and create a steam pocket only amplifying the overheating engine and pushing all the anti-freeze through the engine and back out the lower hose and then out your radiator cap. I have found that allowing the pressure & some anti-freeze through the holes will give you a little time/warning as the gauge climbs or rises & falls rather than just shoot right up to hot or do a violent boilover out the radiator cap. It is going to overheat no matter what if the T-Stat decides to quit working while driving the car, but a heads up warning gives a little more time to find a safe place to pull over.


I remembered our conversation on T-stats but time was a factor (note above) and I have to drain the system fully in the spring anyway to replace the lower radiator hose, clamps etc. I was also surprised to see a 160 degree T-stat in use so I wanted to ask here if I have an unknown problem where the PO used that to compensate or can I use the OE Spec? OE spec is 190, which I installed, (she never got over 190 with 160 T-Stat) so she should be running at 200-210. 

So, I have 67K on this engine. I know the water pump and carb came from a 69 FireChicken and probably more I don't know about - like trying to replace a simple part (water neck) and finding the fuel line was "wrong". I have a really bad habit of fixing something then needing to redo it because another thing "behind" it was also bad. I really feel like I'm headed for a full stock rebuild/refresh. and doing the cooling system now which would be done then as well.... ugh

After or last conversation, I procured all the parts, except the water pump, including a stainless divider and sleeves and seals.



PontiacJim said:


> Looking at the corrosion inside your waterneck, I would be somewhat concerned about the timing cover as it too is aluminum and subject to the same corrosion the waterneck shows. Don't know if you have already pulled this or not.


Yea, I agree. I really did't want to do that seeing as I have the "early" 4" water pump shaft and I would do it during a refresh/rebuild any way. Plus if I do that I'll need all the heater hoses new bearing in the water pump and such as well. I'm a touch frustrated this point, my fun driver is spending more time in the garage than on the road.

I was hoping against hope that corrosion was because the top of the water neck isn't always under water and it was leaking.



PontiacJim said:


> You are doing a great job on the car. :thumbsup:


Thanks I appreciate the help and kind words. Hopefully I can drive her this summer. I still need to finish the dash restore. When it gets warmer I can finish the behind the dash insulation etc... Also been keeping and eye peeled for a correct posi rear end to replace the non-posi installed years ago.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Good man, you have the magnetic picker-upper thingy - 2 more than I got. :lol:

Hey Dan, I've come to the conclusion you have adult ADD. :thumbsup: I want you to give yourself permission to place that "to-do list" at the bottom of your sock drawer, finish the interior up, and call it quits for this coming summer so you drive/enjoy the car before you become too old to finish the car to perfection and can't drive it because the state has yanked your license because you are 95 and blind. :rofl:

Enjoy and drive that car or a few of us on this forum are going to come pay you a visit, duct tape you in the passenger seat, and make you watch one of us drive your car around for you and burn off some of the dry rot those tires are developing. Just sayin'. :eek2:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:rofl:

I wish the diagnosis was that easy. Maintaining three family member homes and six daily drivers dictates my time usage... I get done what I can when I have time. I just sold one daily driver and another daily (SIL) was replaced by a new 2015 rig plus just sold Great Aunt's house so I should have more GTO time come spring!



PontiacJim said:


> Good man, you have the magnetic picker-upper thingy - 2 more than I got. :lol:
> 
> Hey Dan, I've come to the conclusion you have adult ADD. :thumbsup: I want you to give yourself permission to place that "to-do list" at the bottom of your sock drawer, finish the interior up, and call it quits for this coming summer so you drive/enjoy the car before you become too old to finish the car to perfection and can't drive it because the state has yanked your license because you are 95 and blind. :rofl:
> 
> Enjoy and drive that car or a few of us on this forum are going to come pay you a visit, duct tape you in the passenger seat, and make you watch one of us drive your car around for you and burn off some of the dry rot those tires are developing. Just sayin'. :eek2:


It's like the old joke... how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The passenger side head gasket appears to be going... found oil and water exiting the exhaust today. This is getting beyond frustrating, this is getting to be a really big elephant.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Big Dan,

Sorry you are having these issues. If you need to vent you know how to find me off the board.....


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan,

I saw you redid the console, that was the perfect time to switch to a stick shift


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

After considerable debate with myself and some wise advice from others I've decided to rebuild the engine. Not what I wanted to do or something I wanted to do so soon after buying it but...

Some discussion below for others in my "predicament".

http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/rebuild-not-rebuild-100818/index4.html

Now I need to find time to get it pulled and dropped off at the rebuilder. I toyed with the idea of rebuilding it myself but I'm only doing this once so a professional job it will be.

While new life is breathed into the engine I'll be able to finish just about everything else I need to do.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Momma figured out the GTO needed an engine rebuild... Smart women... noticed I wasn't workin on her and running the engine once a week like I normally do in the winter - she figured something had to be wrong with the power plant. 

Long story short, I raised 2/3 of what I need for the rebuild but she told me "take what you need to get it done so we can ride in it this summer." Gotta love a women like that! first a new interior now an engine rebuild!!

Let the deconstruction begin!


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Momma figured out the GTO needed an engine rebuild... Smart women... noticed I wasn't workin on her and running the engine once a week like I normally do in the winter - she figured something had to be wrong with the power plant.
> 
> Long story short, I raised 2/3 of what I need for the rebuild but she told me "take what you need to get it done so we can ride in it this summer." Gotta love a women like that! first a new interior now an engine rebuild!!
> 
> Let the deconstruction begin!


Oh Dude!!! You married what I call here in NY a Unicorn!!!!! All Hail mama Woodland!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:lol: she is a keeper... better be or the last thirty years have been for nothing.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Wellllll, there's no going back now...

I started to pull the engine tonight. I was afraid I would find a bunch of things "wrong" or that I would have to address and I was right.

First found a metric bolt on the lower rad cover mount and this... it does absolutely nothing.


Probably supposed to hold the center of the fab shroud which appears to be incorrect.



The factory spot for a lower rad hose is on the opposite side.



Battery tray is a mess...



I think they needed one more hose clamp to make this really seal...



At least the coolant and trans fluid was in good shape.



There is some goo in the trans connection... I'll probably have the rad tested and cleaned.



The threads for the alternator top mount came out... fell right out. I'm guessing I'll need to use a heli-coil or something here.





rad looks like it's been serviced or at least painted recently. Connections are a bit buggered up which explains the over tightening of the old hose clamps.



Damn picture limit...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

And back to our program already in progress...

Either this is blow back from the power steering leak or I have another oil leak.



Both of the hose connections are not round...



A growing chasm...



Next few nights after work... drain the oil, disconnect the trans, set aside the AC... disconnect the distributor... etc etc. Pull the hood and then the power plant.

I decided to have the guy who rebuilt my project truck engine rebuild this one (I have nearly 50K on that one with no issues). He will take a third of the time (1 month) and was highly recommended for Pontiac 400 engines y someone I trust (two guys actually). He is also cheaper as he isn't insisting I upgrade everything inside - not that this is a deciding factor. He did recommend forged pistons and rods which I was leaning toward anyway. 

I'll have about one month to get everything else done before it's ready. I'll need to get the dash reinstalled too...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

More progress...

Exhaust, starter, trans tube, converter and cover, hood, fuel pump...

I LOVE THIS TOOL! Never had one before and I can guarantee you I'll never not have one.



Parts are starting to pile up...



Mrs. Dan wanted to pitch this but I thought of a good way to use it. It made sure the hood didn't hit the windshield. 



Last to do... remove 4 bell housing bolts (need to figure out the middle two), A/C, motor mounts and throttle connection. need to get some grade 8 bolts then I can pull the heart.

How do I tell how many cores this radiator has?


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

_How do I tell how many cores this radiator has? _
That's a question for the guy at the radiator shop. 
Contact Fine Lines for new transmission cooler lines.
As a bonus you will have a lifetime supply of stainless hose clamps.

Love the air mattress idea for the hood, it's gonna be there for awhile so you may as well keep it comfortable.
Plenty of threads left on that alternator, you just need the proper length bolt.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

You should be able to remove the cap and count the cores. It looks like it might be a 4 core from the picture.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks guys! Much appreciated.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got her back on the ground ready to pull the last two trans bolts and move everything out of the way.

I made a checklist from the Electronic Service Manual I have from Detroit Iron.



Another invaluable tool in the environment I have to work in here...



First casualty... I'll add it to the parts list which at this point isn't too bad. I decided to replace all the wiring in the engine bay (battery cables etc). I also figured out the inner fender splash guards are missing as well as several incorrect nuts and bolts (staples are there)... inconsistent use of washers (incorrect and different sizes) in many places.



More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

A bit more project detail... heater hoses.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/heater-hoses-69-gto-400-4bbl-c-pb-ps-103698/

and any motor mount discussion...
http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-motor-mounts-103802/

I decided to replace every nut, bolt and washer I touch in the engine rebuild project since I can't tell what should be reused or not... I'm only doing this once so it should be worth the effort/cost.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Some of the parts haul from my FL shopping spree at NPD. They don't carry EVERYTHING so I'll have to order the rest from Ames. Also picked up a 750 lb engine stand...





Saved a ton of coin on shipping charges for over sized items - only took 30+ hours of driving both ways. :wink3:

I drop the engine off next Saturday. Will need to consolidate all the parts I've accumulated for the builder...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list - a lot of my original list will be taken care of as part of the engine rebuild or part of the dash restore reassembly...

1. Rebuild Dash (new lamps, vents, bezels, restored clock DONE, restored gauges/lenses DONE, head light knob etc)
2. Install dash
3. PS leak
4. Replace aftermarket hood scoops with OE
5. Trans leak
6. Paint Head rests/arm rest bases
7. Install new body mounts
8. Install new tail/marker light seals
9. Re-chrome Rear bumper/air cleaner top (damaged when PO cut out hood scoops for fake Ram Air)
10. Fix wiper hitting hood molding
11. Fix windshield washer motor (rebuild?)
12. Blast and paint 'new' JA wheel - swap with JC wheel. 
13. Restore/replace steering wheel emblem
14. Fix bent steering wheel horn 'arm'
15. Install new horns (fabricate new bracket)
16. Install new spoiler pads
17. Investigate 'lazy' right headlight door
18. Restore bright headlight switch
19. Upgrade to tilt steering?



More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I was looking for something but I can't find it...



Having the power plant out I see I have a lot of work ahead of me...



I can't believe the wires are supposed to be all over the place and I want to get rid of that plastic wore cover crap.





Since I have the engine and dash out I figure I'll replace everything I can while I'm at it... including vacuum lines etc.



If I didn't have this I would not have been able to pull it... the boom on my hoist was a little short - between the engine sitting back and the extended point of the bumper. It was a challenging but with this 3/4 ton load leveler (well worth the coin!) it allowed me to have extra reach AND control the pitch of the whole assembly!!



At some point this car sat for some time without being driven as evidenced by the animal crap, nuts and other assorted junk...





The oil leaks are more prevalent than I expected. I should have pulled this when I first bought the car and kept it off the road until it was all done, live and learn.

Definitely more to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh, and I didn't break or damage anything including the bumper cover!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Also forget to mention I have 4 core radiator (as suggested I took off the Cap and looked inside) and someone in the past glued the valve covers on!

The only specialty radiator joint closed a few years ago so I'll need to find a new place. I also need to find a place to rebuild the water pump.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Valley Pan discussion....

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-valley-pan-recomendations-104546/


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Just because the hook is big doesn't mean it's strong!! Good thing I was paying attention!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Good thing!

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started prepping parts for the install... Cleaning and inventory.

I lucked out one day, Eastwood had these Part Cleaners at $20. Next day they were $69!

Before (left) and after (right) shot at the same time... using simple green.



This stuff was light green when I started... Motor mounts are soaking now.



Some I presoaked in the disassembly labeled bags, made the clean-up go a little faster.



I used a teeth brush for most of the cleaning.

In the end I determined there are NO complete matching sets of nuts bolts or washers for each thing I removed from the car (except the frame to motor mount).

Some parts were rusty...



A little time and some steel wool...



QUESTION: What do you guys use on these "bare metal" parts to stop corrosion after install?


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## Colorado67GTO (Sep 11, 2014)

So far, I have been using POR15, both chassis black and clear.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Colorado67GTO said:


> So far, I have been using POR15, both chassis black and clear.


Ah, didn't know they had clear. I'll have to check it out. Thanks!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Engine is dismantled/cleaned... somewhat good news.

The block has a pretty big ridge on all 8 cylinders, identical size in each actually. Probably have to go 30 over - figured I would... Heads look great as does the rest of the block although it was literally full of shix!! most of the oil passages were almost completely blocked. Cam is toast, figured it would be - It was so bad/flat I wonder how it ran as well as it did! Oh and the crankshaft is in really good shape, except dirt scratches so it will need to be polished - from all the crap in the oil.

Will have a full parts list to order next week!

Oh, and I found out I have RAIII exhaust manifolds on "standard" 62 heads.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Question: Look in the lower left corner of the engine bay over the frame rail in the picture. Is there supposed to be something over the large and two small holes?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oil Dripper discussion if any... http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-oil-drippers-105618/

Oh, and if you have an answer for me from above on the holes in the engine bay areas above that would be very much appreciated. thanks, Dan


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Oil Dripper discussion if any... http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-oil-drippers-105618/
> 
> Oh, and if you have an answer for me from above on the holes in the engine bay areas above that would be very much appreciated. thanks, Dan



Nothing over the holes. If you look in there, you should see a square nut and the end of a bolt poking through. This is the body mount. 

Drippers should be spot welded to the top of the inside of the chrome valve covers on the GTO - your factory valve covers should have them. They are a plus as they do just that, collect oil thrown up by the pushrods/rocker action and drop oil back onto the rocker arm/rocker ball for lubrication.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Nothing over the holes. If you look in there, you should see a square nut and the end of a bolt poking through. This is the body mount.
> 
> Drippers should be spot welded to the top of the inside of the chrome valve covers on the GTO - your factory valve covers should have them. They are a plus as they do just that, collect oil thrown up by the pushrods/rocker action and drop oil back onto the rocker arm/rocker ball for lubrication.


Thanks Pontiac Jim, I double checked on them today. I do have the covers with Drippers "built in" so I'm good to go... Now on to the other bits. I should have a parts list first of next week.

New launch pad was installed yesterday (this is before)...





Now I can put cars just about anywhere...


----------



## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Dan,

I think you got jealous of my resto-of my garage! I am ready to pour my floor.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Exactly! :lol: If you don't hurry up I'm gonna come over there and make you work faster! :wink3:



Nightshade 68 HO said:


> Dan,
> 
> I think you got jealous of my resto-of my garage! I am ready to pour my floor.


Hey, I forgot to mention you should seal and coat that new floor after it's poured. Like That U-Coat it stuff... Now is the time to do it!


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Launch pad complete... now to get my engine back and... installed!


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

That launch pad is just screaming for some posi marks.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Rukee said:


> That launch pad is just screaming for some posi marks.


It most definitely will be strewn with rubber bits after my rebuild is complete!


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Still no engine.... pretty frustrated, it will be two months next week. Looks like another summer spent in the garage, maybe she'll see the road again next year.

Found out I don't have drippers on my valve covers - I know what they do, are they required (since I didn't have them already)?


----------



## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

The drippers on my '67 bolt to the head bolts that have studs for them and the nuts.
You can see them here between 2 and 6 and another pic of them installed.
They work with Magnum Roller Rocker and Polylocks.
The engine wait is pretty frustrating, 9 months with Jim, 9 days with Southwest.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> The drippers on my '67 bolt to the head bolts that have studs for them and the nuts.
> You can see them here between 2 and 6 and another pic of them installed.
> They work with Magnum Roller Rocker and Polylocks.
> The engine wait is pretty frustrating, 9 months with Jim, 9 days with Southwest.


Ok, thanks Goat Roper. 

He mentioned they were "built into the head" but I didn't believe him. So far he hasn't been accurate about anything (keeps promising this or that by tomorrow or Wednesday or next Friday or the following Saturday bla bla bla)....

Patiently impatiently waiting... :cuss:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Ok, thanks Goat Roper.
> 
> He mentioned they were "built into the head" but I didn't believe him. So far he hasn't been accurate about anything (keeps promising this or that by tomorrow or Wednesday or next Friday or the following Saturday bla bla bla)....
> 
> Patiently impatiently waiting... :cuss:


1967 had a separate oil dripper "rail" that bolted to the head as Goat Roper has shown. 1968 and up used the valve cover drippers which are spot welded to the top of the valve cover.


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

My garage floor is done. That is a pretty driveway......gives me impure thoughts......as in a posi test......


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nightshade 68 HO said:


> My garage floor is done. That is a pretty driveway......gives me impure thoughts......as in a posi test......


Congrats, me too!


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## dadams1911 (Mar 2, 2016)

I say keep, drive it and enjoy it!!! I am building a replacement to my very first GTO which was a 1969 4 speed car and looking now for my second one which was a 1967 GTO that I sold in 1998!!!

Just saying......Darwin- Arkansas


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Question: I have RAM air III D-port exhaust manifolds, I think I know the answer but I figured I would ask the masses. Do I buy the exhaust gaskets that match the exhaust header port or the head exhaust ports?

Many thanks in advance, Dan

Next... 

I found a correct OE air cleaner top on-line, I hope it is the right one. Been lucky so far finding GTO parts despite Craigslisters and others blowing me off time after time.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Question: I have RAM air III D-port exhaust manifolds, I think I know the answer but I figured I would ask the masses. Do I buy the exhaust gaskets that match the exhaust header port or the head exhaust ports?
> 
> Many thanks in advance, Dan
> 
> ...



The gaskets should be one in the same, they are both "D" ports. Some are better quality than others.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> The gaskets should be one in the same, they are both "D" ports. Some are better quality than others.


OK, thanks PontiacJim.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Another question:

69 air cleaner lid... should the outer edge be rolled or stamped? They appear to be 90 identical with exception of the rolled edge.

Thanks in advance, Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Bueller... Bueller :wink3:



dan woodland said:


> Another question:
> 
> 69 air cleaner lid... should the outer edge be rolled or stamped? They appear to be 90 identical with exception of the rolled edge.
> 
> Thanks in advance, Dan


----------



## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Another question:
> 
> 69 air cleaner lid... should the outer edge be rolled or stamped? They appear to be 90 identical with exception of the rolled edge.
> 
> Thanks in advance, Dan


Really don't know, Dan. My '68 GTO has a '69 Grand Prix engine. Don't know if the air cleaner assembly with the chrome top is '68 GTO or '69 Grand Prix???


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## Nightshade 68 HO (Mar 11, 2014)

Chrome top is a 68 GTO air cleaner lid for sure.....not sure of the grand prix....

The originals have a groove in them, and the repops do not.....The Ames catalogue shows where the groove should be if I recall correctly.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Still no Engine.... frustrating... 

A bit of dripper confusion here now... http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-oil-drippers-105618/#post739666


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I've got a chrome air cleaner cover which came on the car and I found a supposed exact OE copy online but they are different so which is correct? The new one is MUCH lighter than the one which came with the car... here are a couple bad pics - sorry it's nearly 2am...

I think I know the answer to this q. Current on top new on bottom.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Returned the aftermarket air cleaner top....

Ordered all the other parts I need... was promised engine last Tuesday, oops... no engine. Next time I do it all myself, I can get it done in less time and probably do it right as well.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

AFT!!!



They didn't secure the valve covers... I've seen overspray like this really screw up engines!!





First time ever using an engine stand... interesting.



They "forgot" to rebuild the water pump... diverter wasn't too bad...



Impeller shows a bit of corrosion, not near as much as I suspected...



I started sorting through the old parts, finding bolts they didn't use and hanging things on the tree...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Water pump is already on it's way to be rebuilt - thanks Pinion Head! 

Need to get bolts back from the builder and pick up the rest of my parts at the Ames Pontiac Nationals next weekend. Looking forward to seeing Pontiacs on the drag strip!

Hopefully I get everything lined up in the next couple weeks and get it installed and started before fall.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started reassembly today after my trip to the Pontiac Nationals in Norwalk, Oh... so many guys broke there wasn't much racing by the time I left - one guy planted his 20 Judge into the concrete wall after dropping fluid on the track and running in his own fluids. He totaled the whole passenger side of his car. OUCH!

It was a good day, picked up all my parts from Ames, found an early '69 (4") water pump in perfect shape and a cheap reprinted 69 shop manual in great condition.

I had a question here:

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-crankshaft-pulley-setup-108882/


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Love this stuff!!!



It really works well. After degreasing the parts (I used simple green) soak in this for about 30-60 minutes. Rinse with water and dry ( I use an old hair drier with a "super heat option").



Started stripping the pulleys...





Next comes a topcoat of chassis black... when they become tacky. If you wait the parts need to be roughed up first.



Also started documenting my pieces parts of the engine...







Number matching proof...





Man am I looking forward to getting this all done!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

So I don't lose track of things like this...

http://www.gtoforum.com/f7/lifts-your-garage-108506/
http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-vacuum-tubing-108977/

Exhaust manifold gaskets and bolts arrive tomorrow.

More to come tomorrow...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Found this at the swap/show last weekend... an original 4" water pump. It took me over a year to find one and this one is in great shape! Now I have a backup - I have the late 68/early 69 setup. 







Told ya there would be more today.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I was able to get a lot done today... Starter, fuel pump, exhaust manifolds, motor mounts, crank pulleys, 



I LOVE using Blue Magic metal polish! A little patience and wahla!



Can't get a ratcheting wrench or ratchet in there but you can get a box wrench to reach? 



No Problem!



Found this while looking for a way to re-torque a bolt on my pickup truck prop shaft.



Pretty cool, you don't need to do any adjusting for the extra length if you use the adapter in the 90 degree position. If you use it to extend the torque wrench you'll ned to calculate a new foot pound to set your wrench.





A little Acetone to clean the unwanted paint in places...



Stripped and repainted...



More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

A little more Blue Magic...





Next up... cleaning and prepping more parts (brackets/bolts etc).



More tomorrow...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Lousy picture but it's late... a 30 minute bath in Metal prep and a couple coats of Diamond Clear for bare metal...



Same with these but I used engine enamel instead...



First soaked the heads in Acetone to remove old paint... then used a quick and dirty method of cleaning/blasting the bolts. Place them in a small container with sand and water then shake like you are trying to get a bug off your hand. Sand and water help "polish" and remove any loose material.

Same with this "bare" part... I did duplicate the partial engine enamel look on the tabs.



Next step... carb, exhaust bolt locks (forgot about those), fix a fuel pump bolt hole, water pump (when it arrives from rebuild), wash engine bay, new trans lines and drop it back in!


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Looking good Dan, I see the intake has been tapped for both the mechanical temp gauge and the idiot light.
Did you get regular steel lines for the tranny or stainless?
I thought I was doing an upgrade by buying stainless but they don't play nice, hard to position and I couldn't get them to stop leaking.
I ended up removing them and ordering regular steel lines from FineLines.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea, she came with both indicators. Ha Dad used to call them idiot lights as well!



Goat Roper said:


> Looking good Dan, I see the intake has been tapped for both the mechanical temp gauge and the idiot light.
> Did you get regular steel lines for the tranny or stainless?
> I thought I was doing an upgrade by buying stainless but they don't play nice, hard to position and I couldn't get them to stop leaking.
> I ended up removing them and ordering regular steel lines from FineLines.


I bought the steel lines for the tranny, I had a hell of a time with the stainless brake lines. I got them from Right Stuff, they guarantee them for life. They also guarantee them against your having to really crank down on them during installation so if you break or damage them or can't get a good seal they will send you new lines. I called tech support and they told me you have to tighten, then loosen, then tighten further, loosen etc etc... This forms the seal in multiple steps. I had enough of that laying on my back for the brake lines. 

Figured out my exhaust manifold pre-heater shroud is fake... 



I'll order one of the correct ones later.

Carb installed...



I had to drill and easy-out the broken end of the vacuum hard line. Nerve racking... I thought this "hobby" was supposed to be fun.  Luckily or skillfully I guess I didn't damage any threads.





Got these installed...





Question:

The big hole is for the distributor and the smallest hole is for that bolt... what is the other hole for? Is it supposed to be blocked with a bolt? I didn't see this under all the oil, dirt and nut shells on the back o the engine before I dropped it off at the builder.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

If I am not mistaken, there should be a plug there. It is for oil. I used it for my mechanical oil pressure gauge. It is supposed to provide a more accurate reading than using the take-off at the oil filter housing if you elect to swap out the idiot light oil pressure switch for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. BUT, you can keep the electrical switch/idiot light at the filter housing and add the mechanical at the distributor to read your oil pressure.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> If I am not mistaken, there should be a plug there. It is for oil. I used it for my mechanical oil pressure gauge. It is supposed to provide a more accurate reading than using the take-off at the oil filter housing if you elect to swap out the idiot light oil pressure switch for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. BUT, you can keep the electrical switch/idiot light at the filter housing and add the mechanical at the distributor to read your oil pressure.


Thanks Pontiac Jim. The current setup has a mechanical gauge fitting in the front port of the intake - passenger side. I may move it to the back and either plug the front or restore the front port to what I've seen other cars have. Of course I have pictures of everything but that area of the intake. 

EDIT: I love learning new things... I'm missing a Thermostatic Vacuum Switch in the front... now to learn how it's used.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

PontiacJim said:


> If I am not mistaken, there should be a plug there. It is for oil. I used it for my mechanical oil pressure gauge. It is supposed to provide a more accurate reading than using the take-off at the oil filter housing if you elect to swap out the idiot light oil pressure switch for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. BUT, you can keep the electrical switch/idiot light at the filter housing and add the mechanical at the distributor to read your oil pressure.


My '67 has an allen plug in that location.
Since I had to pull my engine again after the CVMS rustoration I drilled and tapped my intake manifold in that flat spot on the passenger side for my mechanical gauge and bought a sender to put in the original location.
I used a tee on the filter housing and added the sender for the idiot light so now I have a set of Greenline gauges and all 3 idiot lights.
It is nice to have both so if a light comes on I can look at the gauges and see what is going on.
I did tighten and loosen and tighten those damn stainless lines and was able to slow it down to a slow drip but I hate leaks so I just pulled them and replaced them with the regular steel lines.
I had a small leak at the dipstick and had to replace the tube, over the last 50 years of people checking the fluid it had worn through the tube.
The replacement stick was kind of cheeky so I welded the original handle to it.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> My '67 has an allen plug in that location.
> Since I had to pull my engine again after the CVMS rustoration I drilled and tapped my intake manifold in that flat spot on the passenger side for my mechanical gauge and bought a sender to put in the original location.
> I used a tee on the filter housing and added the sender for the idiot light so now I have a set of Greenline gauges and all 3 idiot lights.
> It is nice to have both so if a light comes on I can look at the gauges and see what is going on.
> ...


I HATE leaks as well. After I get the engine done I have to take the car/trans for another repair - under warranty. Had it rebuilt two summers ago but it's STILL leaking!

Not sure what I want to do with the water and oil gauges... I have, will have had, a set of water temp and oil pressure after market gauges. I don't like where they were - stuck in the ash tray under the dash... thought about putting them in the center console or glove box but seeing them at a glance is also good to have. What to do, what to do...

Nice work on that dip stick fix. Good ol 'merican ingenuity. 

While I wait for my water pump to return I'll look into the T.V.S. and how to reroute the positive battery cable after I get the correct pre-heater shroud. The one I have now won't work. I'll probably have to drill the motor mount and get the proper tube. More to come...


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> I HATE leaks as well. After I get the engine done I have to take the car/trans for another repair - under warranty. Had it rebuilt two summers ago but it's STILL leaking!
> 
> Not sure what I want to do with the water and oil gauges... I have, will have had, a set of water temp and oil pressure after market gauges. I don't like where they were - stuck in the ash tray under the dash... thought about putting them in the center console or glove box but seeing them at a glance is also good to have. What to do, what to do...
> 
> ...


I bought a new HO loom and that tube but it started to cook the new wires and I still had the hot start problem.
I tossed the tube and bought a gear reduction starter from RobbMc and rotated the solenoid to the bottom of the pan and rerouted the wires down by the cradle.
No more cooked wires or hot start problems.

RobbMc Performance Products - RobbMc Mini-Starters


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the additional information. so far I've not had a problem with the hot starting.



Goat Roper said:


> I bought a new HO loom and that tube but it started to cook the new wires and I still had the hot start problem.
> I tossed the tube and bought a gear reduction starter from RobbMc and rotated the solenoid to the bottom of the pan and rerouted the wires down by the cradle.
> No more cooked wires or hot start problems.
> 
> RobbMc Performance Products - RobbMc Mini-Starters


More on TVS tomorrow, 6am comes early.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

That tube on the motor mount is still a waste of time and money especially if you have HO manifolds.
My new loom was already starting to get cooked after 311 miles.
That is how long my CVMS "rebuild" lasted.
:/


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> That tube on the motor mount is still a waste of time and money especially if you have HO manifolds.
> My new loom was already starting to get cooked after 311 miles.
> That is how long my CVMS "rebuild" lasted.
> :/


Wow... that sucks!

Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Thanks Pontiac Jim. The current setup has a mechanical gauge fitting in the front port of the intake - passenger side. I may move it to the back and either plug the front or restore the front port to what I've seen other cars have.


An oil pressure port on the intake?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> An oil pressure port on the intake?


Sorry, no. 

I miss-spoke/typed, it's a mechanical water temp sensor on the front of the intake. My current oil pressure sensor is on the oil filter housing - small plastic tube going into the cabin. Sorry for the confusion. Dan


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Get rid of that plastic and go with a copper line.
Make sure you get a piece long enough to make a coil around something round about an 1 1/2" diameter coming off the filter housing.
4 or 5 wraps should do it.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Sorry, no.
> 
> I miss-spoke/typed, it's a mechanical water temp sensor on the front of the intake. My current oil pressure sensor is on the oil filter housing - small plastic tube going into the cabin. Sorry for the confusion. Dan



That's what I figured. LOL When I was having my oil pressure problems on the former 400CI, I had one line at the oil filt. housing and one line at the top next to the distrib. just to compare to make sure I was not getting a false reading. There was a difference, but nothing substantial to indicate a flat out false reading on either mechanical gauge or oil supply. 

Make sure you plug up the oil port next to the distributor if you don't use it - otherwise you will have oil pushing out. Not sure what type of thread it is (pipe or otherwise), but make sure you get the correct type, finger tighten it to be sure. :thumbsup:


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> Get rid of that plastic and go with a copper line.
> Make sure you get a piece long enough to make a coil around something round about an 1 1/2" diameter coming off the filter housing.
> 4 or 5 wraps should do it.


Good idea, thanks!



PontiacJim said:


> That's what I figured. LOL When I was having my oil pressure problems on the former 400CI, I had one line at the oil filt. housing and one line at the top next to the distrib. just to compare to make sure I was not getting a false reading. There was a difference, but nothing substantial to indicate a flat out false reading on either mechanical gauge or oil supply.
> 
> Make sure you plug up the oil port next to the distributor if you don't use it - otherwise you will have oil pushing out. Not sure what type of thread it is (pipe or otherwise), but make sure you get the correct type, finger tighten it to be sure. :thumbsup:


Oh, don't worry. I've been down the ugly road with another vehicle. I HATE leaks and doing things more tahn once so I'll make sure everything secure.

Thanks for the information on the two oil pressure sources, I appreciate it. Dan


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Another question:

I know about how to adjust the water pump diverter plate 



 but how are the sleeves installed. Do I need another gasket or do they simply slide into the hole at the back of the timing cover and are held in place by the diverter plate?

Thanks in advance, Dan



Thanks to Pinion Head my water pump is rebuilt and en route.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

My water pump arrived yesterday... it's b e a u ti-ful. 



Luckily the corrosion is not on the mounting surface.




It was on the verge of being shot...



Installed bolt locks with anti-seize... I did some additional work to bend over the tabs after seeing the pics....



Swapped out the distributor gear as well... this gear shows a little wear.



The hole is not wallowed out, looks like someone damaged it when the gear was not lined up with the whole while they tried to install the roll pin.



Love it when I use 50 year old tools... no I didn't tap the gear on, just showing the two together.





Thought all I had to do was install the distributor and water pump until I made a list... also Cleared the distributor mount and bolt, painted the dip stick tube extension, motor mount long bolt washers and lift bracket. more to come...


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

New valve covers, water pump, distributor, plug, small heater hose and a few other small things tonight...

The plug wires are ugly so I'll be re-doing them all with angled boots to clear the steering and A/C housing.













Also figured out my torque wrench slipped so I don't have a bad bolt whole on the fuel pump. That will teach me to lock it on lower settings.

Going to a local all Pontiac show tomorrow... hopefully there are a few complete stock GTOs there so I can get some research photos.



Question, there is a small "spring washer" between the flywheel and block. Which way is it mounted? I didn't take it off but I did take a pic before i dropped it off at the builder so I know it goes against the block. It has the "tabs" which stick out and I don't know which way to mount it. Thanks in advance, Dan.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Adding this link to keep everything together... http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/misc-69-torque-specs-109041/


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Small issue.... My oil filler cap is hitting the oil dripper... is there a right and left oil dripper or could they have been installed upside down/backwards? The builder did install .08 washers to help the drippers clear the rockers when the lifters pump up. I installed 3/16th valve cover gaskets but apparently that isn't enough or the drippers are installed incorrectly?


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Figured out the valve cover oil filler cap doesn't fit regardless of whether it hits the oil dripper.

Painted more parts...







Cleared trans line bracket...



I attempted installing the pre-heater shroud but this tab gets in the way so it won't fit . I'll try again tomorrow after I talk to Ames - I surmise this tab has to be "opened" to make it fit my RAM Air III header.



More to come...


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

OK, I ordered another set of valve cover gaskets (5/16ths) and bolts(correct RAM Air)... Standard "correct" bolts won't work. 

Since I have another 1/8th inch of an inch of play in the valve cover and drippers I'm thinking of adding a touch more space between the rockers and drippers via more/thicker washers. This should ensure I have enough clearance when the lifter pumps up, I'll measure before and after to make sure. I'm attempting to measure/calculate my way out of the guessing game of "do I have enough space between the drippers and rockers after the lifters pump up?".

Should be here Thursday so I just might have the heart ready for transplant on Monday, a holiday.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Did I just screw up?*

Did I just screw up?

The bolt threads for attaching my pulleys to the damper were damaged after I ulled them out to repaint the pulleys so i chased all the threads... I fear this was not the proper thing to do. Did I hose myself or am I good? Do I need to use Loctite and/or a lock washer now? I'd hate to have to buy another new damper.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. Dan


----------



## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

If you used the proper tap you should be good, you will find out when you go to tighten them.
Jim shipped my engine back with a cracked hub instead of the new one that was supposed to be supplied.
Like everything else no original bolts. :/
The bolts with the new one were too short so I replaced them with grade 8 and lock washers.
Its okay if they stick out the back a taste as long as they don't hit the housing, better to be a hair long than too short.
Use all the same type and length of bolt so it is balanced.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

By proper if you mean 5/16ths - 24 then yes I did. I didn't get much resistance while doing it and the "shavings" were very very small.

Yea, I know what you mean - mine wasn't as bad as yours but... I had to buy new valve cover bolts, oil filler cap (an expensive replacement for a OE filler cap they kept (lost)) a block plug and they only gave me back 7 push rods, "most" of the valve bits and a few other miscellaneous things. I'll never use them again... luckily they used most of the original hardware to rebuild...

Thanks for the fast reply!!! Tomorrow is engine day so hopefully I have no issues with those bolts.



Goat Roper said:


> If you used the proper tap you should be good, you will find out when you go to tighten them.
> Jim shipped my engine back with a cracked hub instead of the new one that was supposed to be supplied.
> Like everything else no original bolts. :/
> The bolts with the new one were too short so I replaced them with grade 8 and lock washers.
> ...


----------



## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

You should be fine, go slow and double check everything when you reassemble and don't get in a hurry.
It takes about 4 times as long to put it back together than it does to take it apart.
I almost put my oil pan on with the new pump still in the box (the other new one was destroyed with the metal particles from the pushrods) but I stopped and went over my parts before I made that mistake.
The only upside to me having to pull my engine again after 311 miles was I was able to modify my manifold for more frame clearance and fit the McRobb mini starter.
I also discovered that the tube I installed on the motor mount was already cooking the new loom.
I discarded the tube and with the mini starter solenoid facing down I was able to reroute the wires.
This finally eliminated my hot start problems.
Hopefully your builder did it right the first time and you won't have to do it twice.
:/


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Been there done that... 'almost' did the same thing on another project!

Believe you me, I double and triple check the parts containers to ensure I have nothing left over and use everything in the correct places. 

Didn't get to it today anyway... family things come first plus I found a supposed 100 Pontiac car show in a couple weeks. I hope to have some time to go there and do some research on how things were been built originally. There is a guy who rebuilt/restored a 68 Warrwick Blue with a rear defroster and every other option to 100% OE condition, it was b-e-a-u-tiful - I hope he is there to pick his brain.



Goat Roper said:


> You should be fine, go slow and double check everything when you reassemble and don't get in a hurry.
> It takes about 4 times as long to put it back together than it does to take it apart.
> I almost put my oil pan on with the new pump still in the box (the other new one was destroyed with the metal particles from the pushrods) but I stopped and went over my parts before I made that mistake.
> The only upside to me having to pull my engine again after 311 miles was I was able to modify my manifold for more frame clearance and fit the McRobb mini starter.
> ...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Are these oil dripper mount nuts reusable?*

Hi all,

I'm going to increase the clearance between my rockers and drippers. Can I reuse this nut?

Thanks in advance and any help is much appreciated. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

As mentioned above I chased my damper threads and mounted the pulleys - notice the shavings on the hub. I didn't have any issues with the threads, they easily took 35 ft lbs. I also stripped and repainted the pulleys with low glass, they look much better.







I need to polish all the chrome before it's mounted permanently, it's dirty and full of my finger prints but you get the idea... I had to buy a new oil filler cap because the builder 'lost' my original.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

LOVE this stuff!





Periodically I ask myself why I keep all these things laying around (stored in drawers and cupboards)... then when a day like this comes along I'm glad I have them.

I wondered how I was going to restore the fan, I hate putting rusty parts back on during a project, so I remembered I had this brass wire wheel...



I stripped the fan of all paint and rust then soaked with POR15 Metal Prep and painted (I always use a hair drier to make sure all water is gone)... I used a brass wheel so I didn't damage the aluminum blades when I hit them - which was inevitable.









Opened this up so it would fit over the manifold...





Used a Dremel to gain more clearance here, even the 5/16th valve cover gaskets didn't give me enough.



Next/last steps... New/rework plug wires, + battery cable routing, flywheel, Swap out intake bolt for correct bolt, finish engine bay cleanup and paint, drop it in...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Blue Magic at work... it leaves a protective coating behind much like car wax.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I got a very little bit done today...

New heater control valve...



New Heater hoses...



Engine bay cleaning... man was that nasty, there was a solid 3/8th inch of gunk built up on the frame!



Started working on re-working my plug wires (changing to 135 degree boots from straight) but I need to find out how this is used in the wire routing... I have an automatic with air and this is the loom used on those cars. I've never seen one "used" with wires actually being held by it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Went to a GTO/Pontiac show today... lots of cool GTOs from all generations. There was a 70 Judge barn find with 26K miles in original condition! Apparently it was parked and forgotten under a car cover for decades. Hay bails were piled around it which hide it from view. It was in great shape considering it was neglected for some long. Unfortunately there were only two 68s and a 70 for me to research.

Finally saw some example 68/69 GTOs with the Thermo Vacuum Switches in person... (Automatic and Manual cars)





Secondary ground strap location...



Also what appears to be correct wires and routing for battery cables.





Sill need to see an example of the passenger side front spark plug wire loom use...

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-gto-does-anyone-have-110193/

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got a bit more done today... Positive battery cable with cable tube. I know some have had starter HEAT STROKE but I never did prior to this rebuild. Hopefully this luck continues, I also sourced correct battery cables. The secondary wires did get a bit burnt but I picked up some heat shielding for those and I may reroute them. They were previously routed through a modified tube (used with non-Ram Air manifolds) mounted to the head. 





It mounts to the drive side motor mount. Drill some holes and use provided screws.









I was going to reuse this but decided to use the proper setup for Ram Air II exhaust manifolds. Notice it was modified to work with the Ram Air manifolds.



I had to modify the mount position as my motor mounts were not shaped like the picture.

Tried using this but the cover didn't fit with my bolts - I need to figure out a different bolt/mounting option.



I also go the frame painted, motor mount to frame brackets mounted, and painted the radiator frame... Used the paper towels to "hold" the metal prep in place. They recommend leaving it wet for 30 minutes. Paper towels helped keep it wet.



Next/last steps... New/rework plug wires, figure out how to mount the flywheel, drop it in...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Found some correct fan to clutch bolts... fastened the fan to the restored clutch. Need to clean up the clutch mount surface...



Built the new plug wires...



Looks much better!



Next, trans lines...



New modulator...


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Hey Dan

Take a large screwdriver and bend the battery cable tube away from the manifold and rotate the terminal 180 degrees.
If you leave it the way it is in the picture it will melt in the first 50 miles.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Did you plan on putting any coating on the exhaust manifolds? Eastwood sells a paint for them: High Temperature Exhaust Manifold Coating - Application Guidelines 

Used the brush-on grey for my brother's car and they seem to be holding up. I let them dry for several weeks as I was working on the car. I think the key seems to bake them a little before putting them on the engine and running it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> Hey Dan
> 
> Take a large screwdriver and bend the battery cable tube away from the manifold and rotate the terminal 180 degrees.
> If you leave it the way it is in the picture it will melt in the first 50 miles.


Thanks for the heads up Goat Roper. I'll make the adjustments.



PontiacJim said:


> Did you plan on putting any coating on the exhaust manifolds? Eastwood sells a paint for them: High Temperature Exhaust Manifold Coating - Application Guidelines
> 
> Used the brush-on grey for my brother's car and they seem to be holding up. I let them dry for several weeks as I was working on the car. I think the key seems to bake them a little before putting them on the engine and running it.


Thanks for the idea/link but... I thought of a bunch of things like powder coating (done it before and it didn't last - it was a professional job), VHT paint (spray and bake in home oven), 'special' header paint, specialty heat paint etc etc. Every header finish option I've ever seen burns off or changes color over time. At some point I need to say enough is enough... I'll never get done if I keep this up - every step forward finds me doing just one more thing... ok, just one more thing... alright, one more... well, while I have it apart......... It's a driver so I need to stop adding on more and more at some point. For example, I just found out I have a 69 TH400 trans but from a GP not a GTO like I was told before purchasing this car - another inaccurate representation and another expensive lesson learned on these classic cars - do your own research and verification. Why is this a problem? My new trans lines don't fit the different transmission and my quest to return this car back to stock takes another hit (FB water pump and carb, GP trans and Rear etc)... Now I won't be replacing the rear end for a posi unit or obtaining a correct transmission.

See how the original lines, shown next to the new lines, were "manipulated" to work with the GP trans in the GTO.



Now I'll have to mock up the trans lines after temporarily mounting the radiator to ensure everything lines up.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Weather cooperated today - 74!!!!

Positive battery cable moved per goat Roper... Trans lines modified and installed... Dropped the engine in... needed some shoehorns but it's in. Note to self, use a longer boom on the hoist for engines which sit that far back in the engine bay next time.

Next I'll hook everything up (radiator with new hoses, PS and ALT with new hardware etc) and try to get it running later this week.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Update... had to use this to get the engine far enough back toward the cabin... as I mentioned the lift boom is not long enough to do it alone... unless you have the nose off.



Lucked into some GM parts yesterday... sill cover set.







Also got a new door crank... and boxes of stuff including countless nuts and bolts.





It looks nice in-place...



Not much done... new job training taking most of my time. Need to get back to it now...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Surgery behind me and work training over... back at it...

Got some things done today despite the 12 degree weather.

These were meant for standing on but they work GREAT for keeping you off the cold garage floor.



Some say dog is man's best friend, if that is true then this is a really close second... the pads above take care of the body and this takes care of the air!



I lucked into some free parts... some of which are these rear quarter covers. They aren't the greatest but I bet not many people will crawl under the car to look.



Still love this stuff... the rag turns gray, time to buff.



I got the exhaust connected, torque converter connected, fuel lines, trans bolts torqued, oil pressure line installed, trans filler tube mounted and the rear quarter trim polished.

Next:

1. Hook up the starter with a heat shield on the cables.
2. Torque motor mount bolts - done
3. Install radiator, fan, hoses, heater lines and fan shroud.
4. Throttle linkage - done
5. Add coolant
6. Add break-in oil
7. Install Thermostat
8. Connect/mount new modified trans lines to radiator
9. A/C
10. Alternator
11. P/S
12. Install converter cover - done
13. Start and break-in engine
14. Install remainder of interior
15. Install rear quarter trim
16. and a few minor things I'm forgetting.
17. Detail
18. Battery and cables
19. Sell in the spring.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got a little, very little done today...

Torqued top trans bolts(lost a ratchet and socket (fell but didn't hit the floor ), installed rear ground strap, new battery tray, top small heater hose with post clamps and sorted through the free parts and bolts I received from an acquaintance. Every time I need something now I look in the treasure-trove of parts. Today I found the screws to install the rear quarter trim and battery tray (which was also in the box of goodies) - all brand new OE fasteners/bolts!

New tray, yes I turned the fender liner bolt around after I tool the picture.



Projects like this show me all sorts of new oddities. For example, 12 point sockets will not work on the post clamps and the screw driver slot is WAY too shallow to be of any help. I ended up using a 6 point socket the get them tight enough!





Oh, and I highly recommend the soft "sticky" fender covers. They stay in place and do a great job protecting the fenders while you work.

To do list:
1. Hook up the starter with a heat shield on the cables.
2. Install radiator, fan, hoses, heater lines and fan shroud.
3. Add coolant and trans fluid
4. Add break-in oil
5. Install Thermostat
6. Connect/mount new modified trans lines to radiator
7. A/C
8. Alternator
9. P/S
10. Start and break-in engine
11. Install remainder of interior
12. Install rear quarter trim
13. and a few minor things I'm forgetting.
14. Detail
15. Battery
16. Sell in the spring.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Dan, I noticed in post #463 that on the to-do list you have #16--sell in the spring. I assume that after all this work, you are selling the car when done. After all that work and sometimes less than you have done, I feel it's MY car with my sweat and blood (literally) in it and dang if I'm handing it off to another guy to enjoy. True, after several years I sold my Stude to buy my GTO but that was a case of a car I liked vs a car I loved. Maybe its a case of the journey (all that work) is more important than the destination (a finished car YOU did and can now drive, show, etc.). Or maybe there's a GTO you like better than this one. Don't mind my curiosity. I have been thoroughly enjoying your thread---Thanks for posting all your work and discoveries!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1968gto421 said:


> Dan, I noticed in post #463 that on the to-do list you have #16--sell in the spring. I assume that after all this work, you are selling the car when done. After all that work and sometimes less than you have done, I feel it's MY car with my sweat and blood (literally) in it and dang if I'm handing it off to another guy to enjoy. True, after several years I sold my Stude to buy my GTO but that was a case of a car I liked vs a car I loved. Maybe its a case of the journey (all that work) is more important than the destination (a finished car YOU did and can now drive, show, etc.). Or maybe there's a GTO you like better than this one. Don't mind my curiosity. I have been thoroughly enjoying your thread---Thanks for posting all your work and discoveries!


Thanks for the nice words... Selling because this much work/cost is not what I signed up for. I've had it on the road/road worthy for exactly 3 mos of the three plus years I've owned it. It was supposed to be a nice driver, already "done", ready to enjoy for a few years BEFORE I had to tear into it and I started that process in less than three months after buying! Time after time of "you can't just replace that part, you have to replace these four others as well" turned a labor of love into just labor.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Thanks for the nice words... Selling because this much work/cost is not what I signed up for. I've had it on the road/road worthy for exactly 3 mos of the three plus years I've owned it. It was supposed to be a nice driver, already "done", ready to enjoy for a few years BEFORE I had to tear into it and I started that process in less than three months after buying! Time after time of "you can't just replace that part, you have to replace these four others as well" turned a labor of love into just labor.


Understand!! Will not go into my tales of woe with similar cars.> Hopefully, the sale will provide enough funds to buy a hobby car that is drivable, pleasurable and not a curse!:smile3:

Will continue to follow your "adventures" with this.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea, this isn't my first project car so I "know the whoas"...  

Found my ratchet today... just about the only place for it to "hang up" on it's way toward the ground. 



Almost like someone placed it there to do something else...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Decided to take some time off, didn't think it would be nearly 4 months but I think I'll give this another shot - cooler heads etc...

I hate doing electrical work when someone else has been there first. You never know what they did... I decided not to chase their work and hope it all works as it did before I dismantled everything. Here I spliced in the new starter positive. Next the ground... used heat shielding on the cables as well.





Filled her heart with this... I had no idea Brad Penn acted and had a brand of break-in oil. 



Ordered and picked up more sound deadener. Fat Mat is about 30 mins from work here in sunny Ohio. I was pleasantly surprised how well it worked so I ordered more for the dash area and another project.



All new ground straps all around...



Carb installed and hooked up... only 10 miles on the new rebuild in late 2015 so it should be good to go.





This should help eliminate a vacuum leak, the old one was cracked.



Next I need to reorient myself to the tasks left to do and unpack all the parts I stored in December. More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Getting close...*

Parts sorted and myself reoriented with what needed to be done, I recruited my future S-I-L (that sounds really weird to say) and we got to work today - decided to fix the PS leak later otherwise I'll never get this thing running again. Next is to install the radiator and fill it with coolant then start her up! We didn't have any parts leftover so far! 

Battery charged and installed... turned her over several times with no issues.



A/C Hooked up... ready to chill



Just need to set these in place/tighten belts after I get the radiator installed and filled with coolant - as some of you know the top bracket of the alternator attaches to the thermostat housing bolt and the bottom alternator bolt goes through the PS pump bracket.



Need to clean up the valve covers from all the hand prints and tidy up wires etc...



To do list:
2. Install radiator, fan, hoses and fan shroud.
3. Add coolant and top off trans fluid
4. Install Thermostat/gasket
5. Connect/mount new modified trans lines to radiator
6. Start and break-in engine
7. Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts)
8. Install rear quarter trim
9. Detail


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Apparently this post didn't take last weekend....

Parts sorted and myself reoriented with what needed to be done, I recruited my future S-I-L (that sounds really weird to say) and we got the Power Steering Pump, Alternator and A/C installed today - decided to fix the PS leak later otherwise I'll never get this thing running again. We also turned over the new engine with no issues noticed (didn't see oil pressure as the starter didn't turn it over fast enough)... 









next is to install the radiator, connect the trans lines, fill it with coolant then start her up!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

This week we installed the radiator (fixed the bent or blocked fins), trans lines (which had to be modified because of the GP trans in my car), finished the alternator setup, filled her with fluid...



An old scalpel was shade perfectly (wedge shaped) and pointed enough to unfold the fins and make the fins allow air through them now. 



It isn't pretty but it works. This isn't the final photo but you get the idea.



New shroud, radiator bumpers and re-furbed fan installed...



Turned the key and ..... IT LIVES!!!!!!! Man probably shortened my life by a few days with all the burn-off stuff coming out of the exhaust. Lots and lots of rusty flakes came out of the tail pipes!



Ran it for 20 minutes or so at ~2K RPMs, perfect water temp at 195 (with and without 2 fans running in front of the car) and the oil pressure was dead on!!

Now I need to change the first break-in oil and filter, set the timing (I eye balled it just about perfectly), tune the carb (which I have no idea how to proceed, yet) and... 

1.Install radiator, fan, hoses and fan shroud.
2.Top off coolant 
3.Top off trans fluid
4.Start and break-in engine
5.Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts)
6.Install rear quarter trim
7.Detail
8.Melt some rubber

Going back to the carb tune-up, how do I tune the carb so each side of the engine is running correctly? Do I start at a certain number of turns out on the adjustment screws? Then?? Thanks in advance for any help. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I should have mentioned, before the rebuild the carb adjustment screws were not set at the same number of turns. I did rebuild the carb but I put them back as they were before the rebuild. The car ran fine but the passenger side head gasket blew... possibly from running too lean? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Now...
1.Top off trans fluid
2.Install remainder of interior (dash, arm rests and related parts)
3.Detail
4.Install hood
5.Install Air cleaner and heat riser tube
6.Finish break-in and Melt some rubber

Later...
1.Install lower rear quarter trim
2.Install Splash shields
3. Repaint A-pillar covers
4. Repaint front arms rest
5. Paint new rear arm rests
6. Install NOS door sill covers
7. and whatever else comes up.


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## psychodelicdan (Apr 4, 2017)

dan woodland said:


> This week we installed the radiator (fixed the bent or blocked fins), trans lines (which had to be modified because of the GP trans in my car), finished the alternator setup, filled her with fluid...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On the idle jets I always tuned them for the highest vaccume. Then you may need to adjust the idle again 

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks psychodelicdan, I'll do that next. I have her at about 800 RPMs now - she's and automatic. Before I got my new timing light I couldn't do the RPMs without a helper. I'll set those later today.

This is my first foray into the "tuning" world, it's very interesting.

here is a thread on my tuning discussion.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/new-engine-blue-smoke-left-tail-pipe-118737/

Thanks again psychodelicdan. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Idle, high idle, idle mixture and timing all set now. She runs very well. I think I need to try another weight and spring set though, she's all-in very quickly.

1. Changed the oil to synthetic per the builders recommendation - ready to run now. Task made really easy with new ramp system. No metal in oil, will cut the oil filter open tomorrow.
2. Builder says valve train "sound" is normal.
3. A small coolant leak has emerged. http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/coolant-leak-119209/
4. Still smokes so I'm going to drop the exhaust and run open headers for a bit to see if it still smokes or not. http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/new-engine-blue-smoke-left-tail-pipe-118737/
5. Have a "few things" to iron out.
a. Install Trans Cooler line separator. http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/69-trans-cooler-line-seperator-119217/
b. Reset stance - right front right is "sagging". Might be the sheet metal out of alignment or missing body mounts.
c. Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts).
d. Install rear quarter trim - another task made very easy by the new ramp system.
e. Reset front wheel bearings.
f. Have transmission looked at Monday - again (warranty).
g. Fix PS leak
h. Dash install - and all related parts/tasks.
i. Repaint A-pillars and front arm rests and paint back arm rests
j. Install new rear arm rests and pads
k. Install front arms rests and pads
l. Install A-pillars
m. Install kick panels
n. Reset A/C belt tension.

Etc etc...

Love these ramps, with the bridge (seen just behind the rear wheels) each wheel can be jacked up as if on the ground so you can work at shoulder level while seated.



Fastest oil change ever... next one I'll use the bridge and catch the oil in the regular oil pan. I used the red container to see if there was anything in the break-in oil.



Adding an item to the Best Thing Ever list: on a lark I bought a Z creeper (seat and creeper in one). What a sturdy and very handy tool. In a single second it transforms from seat to creeper and back.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Transmission repaired... Turns out they had a bad batch of sealant which only stuck to the gasket and not to the metal. So far she is dry.

Found an oil leak at the fuel filter mount while it was up in the air so I'll need to replace the gasket used by the builder - probably didn't use sealant.

My copper oil pressure line kit arrived...

Started the Dash rebuild...





Cleaned all the tubes... surprised how much dirt came out of them - although it was 48 years in the making.











Something wrong was used so instead of delaying things further waiting for parts I modified the bracket for the harness holder on the gauge cluster.





3. A small coolant leak has emerged. Coolant Leak
4. Still smokes so I'm going to drop the exhaust and run open headers for a bit to see if it still smokes or not. New engine blue smoke left tail pipe
5. Have a "few things" to iron out.
a. Install Trans Cooler line separator. 69 Trans cooler line separator
b. Reset stance - right front right is "sagging". Might be the sheet metal out of alignment or missing body mounts.
c. Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts).
d. Install rear quarter trim - another task made very easy by the new ramp system.
e. Reset front wheel bearings.
g. Fix PS leak
h. Dash install - and all related parts/tasks.
i. Repaint A-pillars and front arm rests and paint back arm rests
j. Install new rear arm rests and pads
k. Install front arms rests and pads
l. Install A-pillars
m. Install kick panels
n. Reset A/C belt tension.
o. Install copper oil pressure line kit


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## ajluzi1957 (Mar 22, 2017)

Hi Dan,

I have enjoyed this thread quite a bit as I have been going through my own restoration. How did you get the tubes so clean! I washed mine several times and they still looked "hazy" with dirt... One word of advice. Check all the sockets before you put dash back in. I replaced all my bulbs and put the dash back in and found one light out that turned out to be a bad socket. luckily I was able to reach it without having to pull the dash!

Nice job on everything!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks ajluzi1957.

I used (soaked in)full strength Simple Green to clean everything under the dash as well as other projects. For nasty parts I spray and let soak in a plastic bag. then a light scrub with a medium brush or paper towel to loosen any stuck on dirt.

Thanks for the lamp socket heads up. I planned to replace all the lamps but didn't think about the testing each socket... definitely better to do it now.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Note to self... see if part is available BEFORE you take it apart...

Today I found an oil leak at the oil filter housing (I didn't install)... when I took it off I could see the gasket had been oiled BEFORE installation. Only a $2 fix, unless I made my own gasket, but still a PIA. The oil pressure gauge line also has oil seeping from it.



Prepped area for reassembly tomorrow when gasket arrives.





Installed the trans cooler line insulator. Picture is while I was upside down under car.



Installed the new oil pressure gauge line, at least the interior connection.








Don't like this setup but to do it properly I'd have to take out the temp gauge line etc... I'll do that later, in the winter when I can't drive it.




Also installed this... As I find "correct things I'll upgrade.




Tomorrow, finish oil filter gasket fix, finish oil pressure gauge line install, drop exhaust to test if smoke is coming from pipes/mufflers or engine and continue dash rebuild.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Address coolant leak.
2. Exhaust pipe test
3. Reset stance - right front right is "sagging". Might be the sheet metal out of alignment or missing body mounts.
4. Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts).
5. Install rear quarter trim - another task made very easy by the new ramp system.
6. Reset front wheel bearings.
7. Fix PS leak
8. Repaint A-pillars and front arm rests and paint back arm rests
9. Install new rear arm rests and pads
10. Install front arms rests and pads
11. Install A-pillars
12. Install kick panels
13. Reset A/C belt tension.
14. Install copper oil pressure line kit (finish)
15. Install NOS door sill covers
16. Install Splash shields
17. Oil filter housing gasket (finish)


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Dan, I would be amiss if I did not advise you to ditch the Fram filter ASAP and go with WIX, NAPA Gold (or one that someone like GR, PH, PJ, Bear recommend.)

Frams have a rep for having the paper filter collapse inside and blocking oil flow (ask me how I know...NEVER another Fram!)


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1968gto421 said:


> Dan, I would be amiss if I did not advise you to ditch the Fram filter ASAP and go with WIX, NAPA Gold (or one that someone like GR, PH, PJ, Bear recommend.)
> 
> Frams have a rep for having the paper filter collapse inside and blocking oil flow (ask me how I know...NEVER another Fram!)


Engine filter probably doesn't matter at this point... engine is making loud ticking sounds at start up and smokes like a Carbaque. I'm about to flip out on the rebuilder...


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

On a positive note, more dash rebuild completed - starting to wonder if this thing will ever be done.

Dash vents in... also installed Controls bezel.



Glove box cables installed. Mounting hole was huge in comparison to the old one so I have to use a much larger rivet. 









Drilled out the old...




Need to order some screws and dash lamps (ended up using most of my stock on another car). Amazing how things disappear while your original project sits.

1. Address coolant leak.
2. Exhaust pipe test
3. Reset stance - right front right is "sagging". Might be the sheet metal out of alignment or missing body mounts. Might actually be that the driver side is too high.
4. Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts).
5. Install rear quarter trim - another task made very easy by the new ramp system.
6. Reset front wheel bearings.
7. Fix PS leak
8. Repaint A-pillars and front arm rests and paint back arm rests
9. Install new rear arm rests and pads
10. Install front arms rests and pads
11. Install A-pillars
12. Install kick panels
13. Reset A/C belt tension.
14. Install NOS door sill covers
15. Install Splash shields


----------



## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> Engine filter probably doesn't matter at this point... engine is making loud ticking sounds at start up and smokes like a Carbaque. I'm about to flip out on the rebuilder...


:surprise:

Is it lifter noise?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sounds like it and I hope that is all it is - I suggested a lifter was not working correctly to the builder but he blew it off...

I will drop the exhaust and run it with open headers in the next day or two to see if the smoke is from the engine or exhaust junk burning off. I ran it on the highway Sunday and it really smoked badly when I got home. Turned it off and restarted about an hour later to move it and heard it clatter much louder and longer than it has to this point - like a lifter is not holding oil. Once it runs for a moment or two it quiets down.

I'm sick to my stomach. 



Goat Roper said:


> :surprise:
> 
> Is it lifter noise?


----------



## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Pull your valve covers and inspect the rockers.
Wallace Racing's site has the pushrod length for your engine as well as the sequence to adjust them.

Rocker Arm Adjusting by Wallace Racing-Home of Pontiac Powered Firebirds,Trans Ams,and Dragsters

If you find a couple of loose ones loosen the rocker enough to turn it sideways and pull the pushrod.
Inspect the ends and roll it on a flat surface to check for bending.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the info... I shouldn't have to do this after what I've paid but I get it. I'll see if I can get to it this weekend. Thanks again. Dan



Goat Roper said:


> Pull your valve covers and inspect the rockers.
> Wallace Racing's site has the pushrod length for your engine as well as the sequence to adjust them.
> 
> Rocker Arm Adjusting by Wallace Racing-Home of Pontiac Powered Firebirds,Trans Ams,and Dragsters
> ...


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

I shouldn't have had to do it either, after CVMS ripped me off I had to pull the engine again and find another builder.
In my case I readjusted the lifters but didn't inspect the pushrods which were mismatched.
The ends were being eaten and the pieces destroyed the bearings.
I had to replace them again after the second rebuild after bending the new ones.
I even called Comp Cams and the rep didn't tell me with the heavier valve springs for that cam I needed hardened chrome moly pushrods. 
It sucks but you have to do your own research and your own work.
I gave up my contractor's license for the same reason, flaky subs who took money and I had to do the work to get it done.
My second builder did a great job but I supplied the one piece Viton RM seal he didn't know about.
The problem with taking it back to the guy is he screwed it up the first time so that is the quality of work you will get the second time around.
I just ate the loss and found another builder.
My "rebuilt" heads had 3 leaking valves and 62 pounds spring weight when they should have been 117 pounds.
I had to pay again to have the heads done because the first builder CVMS did nothing but charge me for work he didn't perform.
I was where you are and it sucks but you are in too deep and the car isn't worth squat unless you fix it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I recall your ordeal... at least my builder is in town.

Yea, I can't quit now no matter how frustrating. :frown3:



Goat Roper said:


> I shouldn't have had to do it either, after CVMS ripped me off I had to pull the engine again and find another builder.
> In my case I readjusted the lifters but didn't inspect the pushrods which were mismatched.
> The ends were being eaten and the pieces destroyed the bearings.
> I had to replace them again after the second rebuild after bending the new ones.
> ...


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

I have A/C so the valve cover on the passenger side is a real PIA.
The upside is I have done it so many times I know what tools are needed and have it down to minutes to do the job.
To pull the pushrods on #8 you have to remove the motor mount bolt and jack the engine sideways to clear the heater blower housing.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I have A/C as well... My noise is clearly coming from the driver side so I'll concentrate on that side first.

Thanks for the tip(s)!



Goat Roper said:


> I have A/C so the valve cover on the passenger side is a real PIA.
> The upside is I have done it so many times I know what tools are needed and have it down to minutes to do the job.
> To pull the pushrods on #8 you have to remove the motor mount bolt and jack the engine sideways to clear the heater blower housing.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I have my answer...



Drive side exhaust is full of oil...

Rear main is leaking as well. Never should have bought this freakin thing or done it all my self.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Not good. That's a lot of oil and it would be hard to speculate at this point. Can you get the guy who rebuilt the engine come take a look at it? I'd see what he recommends and go from there. You may want to pull the exhaust manifold and see if you can narrow it down to one specific cylinder.

The rear main seal can be a problem. Depends on what type seal you use, rope or Viton, and how it was fit/sealed into place. Most have good luck with the Viton seal, but I have read that if the rope seal is used from the engine gasket kits, they can be problematic - *Factory Type Rear Main Rope Seal
* For those of you who want to retain the factory type rope seal and *avoid* the current non-asbestos fiberglass core rope seals available in most kits this is the seal for you. Made by Best Gasket company the GraphtiteTM rope seal is a cost effective solution to rear main seal leaks. It also works well with blocks whose seal grooves are not suited for the two piece rubber rear main seal such as blocks that have been align bored numerous times. So if you go with a rope seal, the best to use is the aftermarket graphite rope seal. Butler has them both:http://butlerperformance.com/c-1234758-gaskets-rear-main-seals.html My guess is that these are supplied from BOP.

I used the BOP brand 2 piece Viton seal on my last 400 build with no issues of leakage. I installed it per their instructions. However, BOP has an improved 1 piece Viton seal that looks even better. I think I got the 2 piece Viton seal for my 455 build, but may consider buying the one piece and using it instead. Both seals have instruction sheets you can read: https://www.bopengineering.com/pontiac_replacement_parts4.shtml


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I showed the builder a photo of the exhaust mess, he said to pull it and he'll fix it.

He is supposed to have used the BOP rear seal, not surprised it's leaking given the other issues (intake coolant leak, burning oil, oil filter housing leak, rear seal leak, engine noise). 

The smoke has gotten worse so I'm sure there is more wrong than just a valve seal.

Deja vu, all over again...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PS. I'm pretty sure it's cylinder #7 . That plug is the only one that isn't light tan color.

And I'm sure there is more than one problem on that side...

Hey, why are my posts getting filled with these URLs popping up?

Oh and if my pictures disappear it's because Photo Bucket is trying to hold people's photos for ransom and trying to get people to pay $400 a year to have third party hosting.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your crappy rebuild.
It wouldn't hurt to have your builder look at it but what I did was find another builder.
After CVMS ripped me off I just ate the loss and found another builder.
The new guy found all kinds of stuff I paid for that wasn't done.
You got a half assed job the first time, why would you trust him to fix it?
He had his shot and blew it, eat the loss and move on.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> I showed the builder a photo of the exhaust mess, he said to pull it and he'll fix it.
> 
> He is supposed to have used the BOP rear seal, not surprised it's leaking given the other issues (intake coolant leak, burning oil, oil filter housing leak, rear seal leak, engine noise).
> 
> ...





dan woodland said:


> PS. I'm pretty sure it's cylinder #7 . That plug is the only one that isn't light tan color.
> 
> And I'm sure there is more than one problem on that side...
> 
> ...


BUMMER! Too much bad stuff going on in your life, we'll pray it gets better quick.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> Sorry to hear about your crappy rebuild.
> It wouldn't hurt to have your builder look at it but what I did was find another builder.
> After CVMS ripped me off I just ate the loss and found another builder.
> The new guy found all kinds of stuff I paid for that wasn't done.
> ...





1968gto421 said:


> BUMMER! Too much bad stuff going on in your life, we'll pray it gets better quick.


Dropping this guy is easier said than done, as you know - at least he is in town and I know a lot of people he does, I'll be able to apply a lot of "business reputation" pressure on him. Finding a reliable builder around here is like finding Unobtainium. At the moment I know what I have and finding another guy on short notice, will do it on short notice and that I trust isn't going to be easy.

That being said: I am looking for a new guy while I take it back out, which it has to be regardless of who does the repair.

Thanks for the good thoughts 1968gto421 but it is just a car - frustrating as that is...

Took the hood off today, not an easy feat on your own... tomorrow I start "celebrating" our nations independence by pulling a Pontiac V8.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

3. Reset stance - right front right is "sagging". Might be the sheet metal out of alignment or missing body mounts. Might actually be that the driver side is too high.
4. Install remainder of interior (dash and related parts).
5. Install rear quarter trim - another task made very easy by the new ramp system.
6. Reset front wheel bearings.
7. Fix PS leak
8. Repaint A-pillars and front arm rests and paint back arm rests
9. Install new rear arm rests and pads
10. Install front arms rests and pads
11. Install A-pillars
12. Install kick panels

14. Install NOS door sill covers
15. Install Splash shields


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

More done today... dash wise...

Trim and Ashtray... Used this grease, the ashtray slides better than ever.


Glove box door...



5 pic limit...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Notched Dash for lower steering column cover...



Vents...







Gauges...





Almost messed this up while trying to fit the gauge cluster... they are a very tight fit with the new dash padding.




And these little things... hope they are lined up properly.



Pic limit...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

New lenses... shown below now

Still found no engine guy....

Next pull the engine and have it sit until I drop it somewhere.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Looks like photo bucket caught up to me... some of my pics are gone. Sorry folks, I won't be paying the $400 ransom for 3rd party hosting.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Trying to upload pics directly to the site... Can only do 5 at a time this way though...bummer


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Deja Vu all over again!!!!!!!*

Pulled the Heart again today... 5.5 hours start to engine stripped and wheels up (on rollers) - still need to clean up. I put her on rollers this time because who knows when she'll live again. At least this way I can move her around.

This time I also secured the trans with a board to hold it while I move it around etc...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

I like your idea of using a board to hold the trans up, Dan. I've been using a nylon tow strap similarly wrapped around bolts, but I think your solution is better.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Bear... necessity is the mother of invention.  I needed to move it around and keep the transmission supported - figured the engine held it up when joined so I'd use a substitute. 



BearGFR said:


> I like your idea of using a board to hold the trans up, Dan. I've been using a nylon tow strap similarly wrapped around bolts, but I think your solution is better.
> 
> Bear


Dropped off engine today, seems 7 of 8 plugs were wet whenI pulled them this am before dropping off the paperweight. I took it to the same builder because he asked me to let him fix it, claims he had another do the same thing when they used the particular oil pump in my build. Makes sense since all the seals have blown out... he claims my engine is a priority but I'm not holding my breath... more to come... eventually.

This was the scene four years ago last week. Haven't been able to put a thousand miles on her since... pretty disappointing.:frown3:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

What oil pump did you/he use that would blow out seals and cause oil to pour out of a cylinder??? Hmmmmm. I think I would be at that shop on a regular basis to "check up" on him so I could see what the problem really was. :yesnod:


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

PontiacJim said:


> What oil pump did you/he use that would blow out seals and cause oil to pour out of a cylinder??? Hmmmmm. I think I would be at that shop on a regular basis to "check up" on him so I could see what the problem really was. :yesnod:


Sounds to me like he is being led down Primrose Lane.
CVMS wanted me to spend the money to ship my engine back so Jim could screw it up again.
LOL!
It only cost me a little more than shipping both ways to have a competent builder do it right.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Goat Roper said:


> Sounds to me like he is being led down Primrose Lane.
> CVMS wanted me to spend the money to ship my engine back so Jim could screw it up again.
> LOL!
> It only cost me a little more than shipping both ways to have a competent builder do it right.


Ya, that's what I'm thinkin' here. Never heard of an oil pump cranking out that much pressure that it blows out seals and pumps oil out of a cylinder. Remember, the SD 455 engines used the 80 PSI pumps and I am not aware of any problems ever mentioned from anyone.

Now too much internal pressure can build up within an engine and cause seals to leak or blowout or push oil out the dipstick, but never heard this of oil pressure.

It will be interesting to hear the diagnosis, but Dan, I do suggest you keep tabs on this guy and make sure he does not cover up a big boo-boo on his part. I would make sure he first identifies the problem and then allows you to see it for yourself BEFORE any repair work, no matter how small, is performed to fix whatever the problem may be.

I am hoping it is something as simple as a bad valve guide allowing the oil to get sucked down into the cylinder or blown head gasket. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yes, I will be keeping an eye on him. I've spent too much time and $ to do this again...

As to oil pressure, what is the proper PSI? On this engine rebuild I had 60 at start up, ~25 to 30 at idle once warmed up and 50 when I drove it moderately hard (not WOT). I'm pretty sure the manual said it should be just that. He said 50 is too high after being warmed up. Ultimately he'll have to break it all down again because from what I can tell all the seals appear shot even though there was no oil coming out of the left side exhaust.

It could be a head gasket and a bad job of placing the BOP rear seal. I'll know more when I see it open.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Oil pressure looks okay, basic rule of thumb for oil pressure is* minimum* 10 pounds for every 1,000 RPM.
Excessive pressure isn't a good thing either, you want the oil to lubricate the rockers not the valve covers. 
According to my builder standard 60 pound pump is better than the high volume pump.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ok, just talked to him in person at the shop and saw engine 50% dismantled (left side). Pistons from 5 and 7 were blackened, valve seals looked ok, head gasket was ok, honing didn't look as "aggressive" as I would expect to see. I suspect rings didn't seat, in upside down, in the wrong orientation (grooves lined up) or bad honing. He had a full crew in the shop today and I'm sure he didn't "personally" assemble it.

Told him I'm going to be up his ass and I want to SEE the issue in person before it's reassembled - he agreed. He is going to replace all the rings, bearings and re-hone (why I suspect honing was not as I expected) and build it as if I just dropped it off for the first time.

He will cover any and all costs I've incurred including break in oil, engine oil, filters, exhaust manifold bolt locks, engine enamel etc.

Engine rebuild book says oil pressure should be 35 PSI at 2600 RPMs (400) so I suspect they used the wrong/bad oil pump - he did say it was NOT a high volume Melling pump.

On the next episode... will Terry find the issue, will he fire the monkey responsible, will the owner get screwed again? Tune in for the next episode of the Engine Burns Oil tomorrow to find out.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dan, you are incorrect on your oil pressure numbers. 

The GTO and 428 engines used the higher pressure pump. What you have listed is the "standard" pump pressure for the non-GTO engine - ie grandma's car. The GTO oil pump pressure as listed in the factory service manual is 45-50 @ 2600RPM's. You want the Mellings pump which is typically listed as the 60 PSI pump. :thumbsup:

Just keep his feet to the fire. :yesnod:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the update... never know what/who to believe on specs.

Will do... he was not happy and he will continue to be unhappy until I am not unhappy.



PontiacJim said:


> Dan, you are incorrect on your oil pressure numbers.
> 
> The GTO and 428 engines used the higher pressure pump. What you have listed is the "standard" pump pressure for the non-GTO engine - ie grandma's car. The GTO oil pump pressure as listed in the factory service manual is 45-50 @ 2600RPM's. You want the Mellings pump which is typically listed as the 60 PSI pump. :thumbsup:
> 
> Just keep his feet to the fire. :yesnod:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Wasn't the oil pump...*

Wasn't the real seal leaking...

Wasn't anything I did... obviously.

I just returned from the shop so...

It was the oil pan seal - they used a 3 piece set. This time he will use a one piece gasket - as he told he he was going to use the firs time. The seal failed/wasn't correct at the back near the rear main seal and was squirting up onto the crank then dripping down on everything else.

It was the exhaust valve(s) - they were allowing oil to leak into the combustion chamber - "at an alarming rate". He said he saw leaks he never saw before when he performed a vacuum test. The exhaust valves are scored so it appears the geometry was off. They had used the "standard" (thin) valve guides but now they will be re-drilling the valve holes and inserting heavy bronze guides.

So in a nut shell... the short block is complete, they are waiting for new exhaust valves and seal kit. I'm told I'll get it back next weekend where deja vu strikes again and in the process it will get:

1. New rings
2. New bearings
3. New valves (again)
4. New valve guides
5. New wrist pins
6. All new seals/gaskets (obviously)
7. New push rods (probably custom length)
8. break-in oil, filters etc etc

I dare to dream one day it will be like this again...


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Well, glad the main culprits have been found. However....

The bronze guides (thicker) are better than the bronze liners which it seems he used. The liners are much thinner and some research shows they have both pros & con's and some like them and some don't, but the bronze guides seem to be preferred and favored by most.

With the liners being thinner, I did find mention that valve train geometry is very important and that if the rocker arm is not centered on the valve stem, it can side load the valve and prematurely wear out the bronze liner. I suspect the worn liners scoured the valve stems and that is why he is replacing those.

I never had a problem with the 3-piece oil pan seals, but I did select the 1-piece for my 455 build this time around just because it made more sense in that it could eliminate a possible leak down the road at some point. The key in my mind is to make sure you use the "yellow" gasket adhesive. It seems the rubber seals and gasket materials are somewhat different in compounds and don't hold like they used to. I have said this before, my machinist says to used the "yellow" gasket adhesive to hold the gaskets in place and keep them from slipping out. He noted that the rubber seals are "slicker" than the older rubber seals and they will slip out when compressed under torque. I myself had this happen with a new front pan seal on a 360CI and luckily I was close to home and did not lose all the oil. The "yellow" gasket adhesive did the trick.

Why the new bearings, and wrist pins? I can see the other parts, but the need for new bearings and wrist pins tells me something else might be amiss?

Seems like a costly experience for your machinist. Glad he is covering it all for you.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the information PontiacJim. He said the use of thinner guides are "common practice" but usually are not an issue. Obviously this time there was. He did mention the centering of the rocker (geometry) may have been the issue and he'll trippple check it.

I didn't notice if the seals had pushed out. When I replace gaskets I always makes sure that sort of thing doesn't happen by torquing bolts in stages/alternating sides (when possible) and checking the gasket as I go.

According to him there was nothing wrong with the other parts but he does not want to take ANY chance of anything failing again - even though the rear seal didn't leak he replaced that as well. 

This is the second engine I've had him build, first was stock 85 HP 4 banger. That one had a small oil leak and he quickly took care of that as well (that engine is VERY susceptible to rear main leaks). I put 50K on that engine before I sold the vehicle so I know he can build good engines.

I won't be 100% comfortable until I get it back and it runs trouble free for years but I do feel a bit better after talking to him. My last two conversations with him made him fairly animated in that he was upset there was a problem. He's taking the full weight of the issue and making it right, I hope.




PontiacJim said:


> Well, glad the main culprits have been found. However....
> 
> The bronze guides (thicker) are better than the bronze liners which it seems he used. The liners are much thinner and some research shows they have both pros & con's and some like them and some don't, but the bronze guides seem to be preferred and favored by most.
> 
> ...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Figured out how to show pics in the posts... I mentioned before I hate rust and I didn't take the time to clean this because I had enough bologna trying to rebuild/install this engine the first time sooooo here goes, since I had a second chance. 










Love it when a tool does a great job... the tool - a brass wheel.










and the work it does...











Taking a bath in Metal Prep... then some Diamond Clear to keep rust from coming back.










Also fixed the motor mounts, they bent when I removed the engine the second time and painted the arm rests but they turned out to be the wrong color (used paint recommended by someone) so I have to start over on those... Also inventoried all the parts so I know when everything is once the engine is ready, which they didn't call today so if no call tomorrow then I won't get it back as I was promised.

Next installment of As the Crankshaft Turns we'll see if the builder can get it done before Christmas.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

After Diamond Clear... don't know what I'll do it I can't use Metal Prep some day.










"After Further Review" ... I placed these parts in the car and they much closer than I thought in a "darker" interior.










Old one is on the left... new paint is pretty close. Once installed with the new Parchment arm rest tops it will look pretty good.










I used this Ivory color from Krylon but I wish it was a bit more on the white side...











I used this "Parchment color". It works pretty well and sticks/lays down well. If someone tells you to buy more than one full sized can don't! I did on the the recommendation of the PY sales rep, lookin to pad his months sales.  You use so little this one can will last for dozens and dozens of cars/interiors!!!










Crap, I need to reload pics... plus I think I'm at the file limit of the site.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Engine is ready, can't pickup until next week... I get a 12 second message at 4:45 yesterday to come pick it up and they leave at 5.

Went to Pontiac Nationals today. Saw hundreds of Pontiacs (GTO, Firebird, Trans AM and all the rest), some of the fastest Pontiacs I've ever seen (160mph), saw a coupe blow up and lots and lots of glorious burning rubber!! I also found some OE parts for $5 each including a near perfect glove box liner ($45 for a repop that doesn't match OE look)!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Car on top hit 160!










Aforementioned rubber demolition...










A blast from the past...










Not sure why pics are small, they the same size as previous uploads...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ordered a new center console on-line and picked it up at the Pontiac Nationals but I don't think I like it. 

The ad said it came with a "box" intimating one like the loose OE model but it's integrated into the mold, the pebbling is way too detailed and shinny (I could sand and paint but what's the point of buying new then heavily modifying it). I have not tried to install anything on it like the wood trim and probably won't. It looks like I MAY send mine off to Just Dashes some day, it's really pricey but after trying to find an used OE model without a myriad of issues (drilled, cracked, wrong years etc etc etc) then having to restore it I may as well ship it out... need to save up my allowance for awhile first.

*Lesson of the day*

Rebuilt an Edlebrock Performer carb from an 81 Vette yesterday... someone glued a screw into the accelerator pump outlet it so the head broke off during disassembly taking two hours to get it out... drilled it with a left hand drill (no luck), cut off screw flush with Dremel to allow re-drilling, re-drilled for an easy out (screw insides just peeled away), re-drilled again and a again eating away at the remaining screw bits managing to save the threads some how (on about 50%). Tapped hole with 8-32 bit, ran a screw in a few times and presto! Lesson learned, don't continue with a rebuild for a car which isn't not yours if it won't come apart easily (as it should). :wink3:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got these installed today... and started emptying the interior to paint the upper dash.

Before


View attachment 94929



After

View attachment 94921


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

dan woodland said:


> Ordered a new center console on-line and picked it up at the Pontiac Nationals but I don't think I like it.
> 
> The ad said it came with a "box" intimating one like the loose OE model but it's integrated into the mold, the pebbling is way too detailed and shinny (I could sand and paint but what's the point of buying new then heavily modifying it). I have not tried to install anything on it like the wood trim and probably won't. It looks like I MAY send mine off to Just Dashes some day, it's really pricey but after trying to find an used OE model without a myriad of issues (drilled, cracked, wrong years etc etc etc) then having to restore it I may as well ship it out... need to save up my allowance for awhile first.
> 
> ...


Nice used '69-72 Pontiac A-body automatic consoles are out there, realize a lot of consoles that gets posted on eBay or dragged to a swapper are poor condition cores (aka junk ) that can only be "vinyl repaired" to such a level. Appears you're making a lot of headway on the '69


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Pinion head said:


> Nice used '69-72 Pontiac A-body automatic consoles are out there, realize a lot of consoles that gets posted on eBay or dragged to a swapper are poor condition cores (aka junk ) that can only be "vinyl repaired" to such a level. Appears you're making a lot of headway on the '69


Yea, I'm trying to be patient.  Good thing is I don't have to do this now, it can be done any time since it's installation does not rely on anything else.

I nearly have the interior ready for painting the upper dash - man is that OE sound deadener itchy!

During the color change in the mid 90s they just sprayed everything in place so there is a fair amount of tan still left. I'm hoping someone here has done this task with the windshield still installed. You can see in the picture below where the paint did not cover any surface facing the engine bay and didn't cover much else either. I actually cleaned a fair amount of paint from the windshield. Short of using a small paint brush or heavy/strong paint spray bouncing off some cardboard I'm hoping someone can save me some time with a tried and true idea.

View attachment 94985


So that being said, any one have a good way to do this?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

View attachment 95081


Found these at the car show last week... #10 cut threads and #8 heads to match OE look and function. These allow you to use a larger thread to fix a stripped or enlarged #8 hole.

View attachment 95089


View attachment 95097


Sound deadener... didn't install it over the "mechanical" bits on the heater box incase it would fall and jamb things up. I also learned you don't have to cover every inch of metal for the product to be effective which saves you a crap load of material and $coin.

View attachment 95105


This is all that stood between me moving the car or not... installed a heavy duty cotter pin.

View attachment 95113


New boot...

GTO (Got) a few things done tonight... in preparation for picking up the engine Wednesday or Friday I re-torqued the engine mount bracket bolts, did some clean up where I can't reach with the engine installed. 

I also swapped out the shifter cable boot. I could not find only a replacement boot so I bought a $14 shifter cable and stole the boot from it - the cable is still good so no need to replace it yet and the boot fit perfectly. Turns out it's the same boot on the $50 replacement cable.

I also installed some sound deadener and cleaned the interior/carpet. Tomorrow, hopefully, I can paint.

Eatin this project one bite at a time...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Deja Vu all over again... again!!!!!!!*

View attachment 95137


Ooops I did it again... Hit me baby one more time... wash rinse repeat... Over And Over Again... You got me going in circles...

Paperwork says they replaced, rings, main and rod bearings, valves (got the old ones back), beefy/bronze valve guides, valve seat job (assume after corrected exhaust valve angle), Posi Seals, BOP rear main, one piece oil pan gasket, etc etc...

munch munch munch


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

View attachment 95306


While I was at it this time I put in a new flexplate/fly wheel...

View attachment 95298


Dropped her in last night

View attachment 95290


And finished her today... BF of daughter Dan helped and so did the dog, sort of... 

View attachment 95282


All done... NO GO!!! Fuel spits out the carb... need to double check everything but I could not for the life of me get the distributor stabbed the way a Pontiac 400 is supposed to be - last time it went in perfectly the first time. I don't 'think' it's out 180 but I was out of allotted time to get it done today.

I really hope they didn't time/set it up as a Chevy or Firebird because at TDC and 0 it was pointing toward the number one cylinder, the Pontiac diagrams I have seen all point to the drivers left foot.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Couple things, Dan. Are you positive that you have the correct flex plate for how your engine was built? Pontiacs originally from the factory used a specific flex plate for the right balance. Those 4 large holes on the right side in the photo you posted tell me you have that kind of flex plate. Many aftermarket rotating assemblies, like the ones Butler and others sell, are set up for a neutral balance and require a compatible (different) flex plate. Just making sure...

On your distributor problem, make sure you get the engine to #1 TDC compression (easy way is to remove the plugs, stuff a rag or something into #1 plug hole, crank it over, and when it blows out you're there ("back" up the engine to TDC). Install the distributor and wire the cap accordingly (remember Pontiac dist's turn counterclockwise). If you can't get the distributor to seat, pull it out, use a big long flat blade screwdrive to turn the oil pump drive shave a little into you are able to get the distributor to drop in all the way.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Couple things, Dan. Are you positive that you have the correct flex plate for how your engine was built? Pontiacs originally from the factory used a specific flex plate for the right balance. Those 4 large holes on the right side in the photo you posted tell me you have that kind of flex plate. Many aftermarket rotating assemblies, like the ones Butler and others sell, are set up for a neutral balance and require a compatible (different) flex plate. Just making sure...
> 
> Bear


In a word, no, I don't "know". I trusted Summit to give me the correct flex plate based on the answers I gave to the tech's questions. The engine has a cam one or two steps up from stock and roller lifters and the old flax plate was not "externally" balanced - I had the old one with me. The new one looks "Identical" to the old one with exception of it being beefier (thicker) and no holes like on the old one - I asked him if that was the way they balanced the old one, that's when he said it would have weights on it if it was "externally balanced".



BearGFR said:


> On your distributor problem, make sure you get the engine to [URL=http://www.gtoforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] TDC compression (easy way is to remove the plugs, stuff a rag or something into [URL=http://www.gtoforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] plug hole, crank it over, and when it blows out you're there ("back" up the engine to TDC). Install the distributor and wire the cap accordingly (remember Pontiac dist's turn counterclockwise). If you can't get the distributor to seat, pull it out, use a big long flat blade screwdrive to turn the oil pump drive shave a little into you are able to get the distributor to drop in all the way.
> 
> Bear



View attachment 95402


View attachment 95410


So... as long as the firing/wiring order is correct and #1 cylinder starts at TDC on the Compression Stroke it doesn't matter where #1 starts in the "rotation". I've always heard people say the rotor should point to #1 cylinder at TDC (compression) for a certain engine but I see drawings like the two attached for Pontiac V8s pointing all over - I must have lucked out BIG TIME first time I stuck the distributor in this beast after the last rebuild.  

OR 

All you need to do is turn the oil pump manually to get #1 where you want #1 to start... like in the drawing. 

Thanks for the info Bear... I appreciate it very much. I forgot the oil pump is tied to the cam by the distributor not directly to the cam.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

If you want to be 100% factory concours nitpicking correct, the distributor should be oriented so that the vacuum canister is pointed towards the drivers side fender and the plug wire for #1 cylinder is pointed 'mostly' at the steering wheel. But yeah, as long as the rotor is connected to whichever cap terminal you've got #1 connected to at the same time that cylinder #1 is at TDC compression, and the rest of the wires connected counterclockwise in firing order sequence, you should be golden.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> If you want to be 100% factory concours nitpicking correct, the distributor should be oriented so that the vacuum canister is pointed towards the drivers side fender and the plug wire for #1 cylinder is pointed 'mostly' at the steering wheel. But yeah, as long as the rotor is connected to whichever cap terminal you've got #1 connected to at the same time that cylinder #1 is at TDC compression, and the rest of the wires connected counterclockwise in firing order sequence, you should be golden.
> 
> Bear


Thanks Bear... I'm not a concours or show level guy. I want to drive my cars but I do like to be as close to factory as possible - at least in the way of cosmetics which is partly why I like these cars, the styling!

Will let you know... thanks again. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*AMAZING! I must be channeling Murphy's Law!!*

Well, it runs but... it makes a popping sound. What is that you say, it pops? Yes, it pops as in an exhaust leak at the intake manifold!!! 

Got the timing set perfectly. Only had to turn the oil pump about a 1/4 turn and dropped the distributor in... fired up the very first time. Sounded wrong but I let it run because I could not hear "metal on metal" noises. Used a stethoscope to check for sounds in the engine but nothing...

View attachment 95626


View attachment 95634


After the initial run I noticed I was getting shocked if I touched two metal things at the same time. I found a melted wire/loom in the Alternator wire... This is what tipped me off.

View attachment 95618


So what melted the wire and loom? I found this... leak just below the wire holder.

View attachment 95610


I stopped by the builders shop just as he was leaving for the day, he said he had to see it because he didn't believe there was an issue so I took him to my house and showed him... he was livid. The only job he let someone else do on my engine and they F'ed it up. 

He'll be at my house tomorrow morning to replace the intake gaskets. It will be nice that he will have to feel some pain on this one. AMAZING how the quality of workmanship these days has taken a nose dive... one job can't be done on one project, a 14 year old could install an intake manifold gasket.

More to come, probably... :frown3:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Dismantled the top of the engine... can see the leak much better from the driver side...

View attachment 95650


and more of the same blue tape last year, this spring, this summer and now... daja vu vu vu?

View attachment 95642


I can't even get mad anymore. :nonod:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Yep, know that feeling where you can't even get mad anymore. Sorry to say, today's generation seems to think "mediocre" is a quality job. I see this at our trailer (big rigs) repair shop more than I like. I get to inspect the trailers prior to me delivering them to the customer. I catch a lot of poor quality work that has to be addressed or reworked because I know the customer will not accept the poor workmanship or won't say anything and we lose his/her business.

When I question the mechanic who did the job, I get bewildered looks like "what's wrong with it," "I forgot to do that," "it looked OK to me," "no I never checked it," or simply "I don't know." The worst part is that there seems to be no shame or remorse and you can't really discipline them because they just don't care and writing them up or sending them home for a couple days doesn't phase them or improve their workmanship.

Just a different generation and not one I am part of. Just seemed we always had pride in our work whether we liked the job or not - I always feel it is a reflection of who I am, and shame on me for doing a crappy job. I guess I still have a conscious and an awareness as to what is quality workmanship and what is "mediocre".


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Wrong intake gasket.
You have to check the fit on the manifold not the head.
They used the one with the square center port instead of the rectangular.
Here is a pic of your problem, see the center square port?
The gap at the top is your leak.
You got CVMS'ed, same thing the idiot at Jim's Junk Joint did to my engine.
Show this to the doofus that installed your intake manifold.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Yep, know that feeling where you can't even get mad anymore. Sorry to say, today's generation seems to think "mediocre" is a quality job. I see this at our trailer (big rigs) repair shop more than I like. I get to inspect the trailers prior to me delivering them to the customer. I catch a lot of poor quality work that has to be addressed or reworked because I know the customer will not accept the poor workmanship or won't say anything and we lose his/her business.
> 
> When I question the mechanic who did the job, I get bewildered looks like "what's wrong with it," "I forgot to do that," "it looked OK to me," "no I never checked it," or simply "I don't know." The worst part is that there seems to be no shame or remorse and you can't really discipline them because they just don't care and writing them up or sending them home for a couple days doesn't phase them or improve their workmanship.
> 
> Just a different generation and not one I am part of. Just seemed we always had pride in our work whether we liked the job or not - I always feel it is a reflection of who I am, and shame on me for doing a crappy job. I guess I still have a conscious and an awareness as to what is quality workmanship and what is "mediocre".


Well, this guy appears to be one of "us". He just left after fixing the issue. He got goose bumps on his arms when he saw the problem... 

View attachment 95706




Goat Roper said:


> Wrong intake gasket.
> You have to check the fit on the manifold not the head.
> They used the one with the square center port instead of the rectangular.
> Here is a pic of your problem, see the center square port?
> ...


You nailed it Goat Roper. Correct on top...

View attachment 95698


View attachment 95714


I cleaned the paint off this since they painted it engine color... and shot it with Diamond Clear again after a bath in metal Prep.

View attachment 95682


I'll mask everything off and touch-up paint next then put her back together, again, again........ again .................again....................againnnnnnnn


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

I didn't run my engine long enough to melt anything and pulled the manifold right after starting it and seeing the blow by.
I had to do it again after pulling the engine to have it rebuilt after getting screwed by CVMS.
Instead of getting a turnkey engine I got a turnwrench engine.
The upside is I can now R&R the intake in 30 minutes.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> I didn't run my engine long enough to melt anything and pulled the manifold right after starting it and seeing the blow by.
> I had to do it again after pulling the engine to have it rebuilt after getting screwed by CVMS.
> Instead of getting a turnkey engine I got a turnwrench engine.
> The upside is I can now R&R the intake in 30 minutes.


I feel ya, I can probably R&R the whole engine in a few hours now. :wink3:

GTO it painted... kind like setting up a surgical procedure. 

View attachment 95722


View attachment 95730


View attachment 95738


View attachment 95746


Problem with taking things apart and reassembling them over and over... uggg. Rebuilder said he'll get me a replacement - even thought he took care of the problems I won't hold my breath on this one. Said he has a guy he goes to for GTO engine cores etc. If he does then I'm on the hook for the replacement cost/labor.

View attachment 95754


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Today's top tip... reinvigorating your "aerosol" cans that no longer spray.

Get a few tire valves (some have deeper openings opposite the threads which you need for different length spouts), power up the compressor and act like you are filling a tire. Wiggle the valve to allow air to fill the bottle/can and whalla! It sprays again! I've done it with several cans and you can do it over and over, just use common sense and don't over-fill them.

View attachment 95762


View attachment 95778


View attachment 95786


I know, "where did you get those sheets?!" Aren't they awesome........ as drop clothes?


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

I have a small cup gun that I use especially with metallics and wrinkle paint.
When spray bombs clog I just depressurize them and pour the contents into the gun.
Looks like some ham fisting going on to break that casting.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Goat Roper said:


> I have a small cup gun that I use especially with metallics and wrinkle paint.
> When spray bombs clog I just depressurize them and pour the contents into the gun.
> Looks like some ham fisting going on to break that casting.


Nope, learned my ham fisting bolts and what not lessons when I was younger... I always torque things to spec.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

View attachment 95794


It's "done"... again, no noises this time except what you'd expect to hear. Timing set, runs strong now to finish the interior.

Time will tell how well things go. Yes, it needs dusting, the maid comes in tomorrow.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Figured out what I did to break my A/C compressor mount.

I tightened the bolts at the red arrows BEFORE the blue... crap.

View attachment 96026


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

That would do it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hood on, she looks like a car again. It's odd, I got so used to seeing and working on it without.

View attachment 96194


Dash painted... used liquid satin paint then a flat spray to "knock down" the sheen. Need to see it in the daylight before I pass final judgement. tried bending a paint brush to get by the windshield but it didn't work. Need a double bend or something else so that is for another day.

View attachment 96202


View attachment 96210


View attachment 96218


View attachment 96226


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Back at it after family member shattered a bone in their arm, nasty but amazing how modern medicine can fix what we do to ourselves...

All timing set with NO Vacuum.

I was given incorrect procedure previously when told to set initial timing without vacuum then connect vacuum to set total timing.
It is much easier and better to use BearGFR's procedure below. Funny how like butts everyone has a way to time an engine - some
are really complicated or at least how they wrote it up was crazy.


1. Set the initial timing around ~15-18 degrees - don't have a scale on my damper but considering using a timing tape.
2. Took it for a run - had a very quick (for a second) knock at/near shift points
3. Retarded timing a touch at ~12 degrees, "knock" almost gone but now it's more like a "fluttering" sound.
4. Set timing back to original (as close as I could). Still had a "fluttering" sound.
5. Looked at belts among other things for noises, A/C belt didn't look right so I tested by revving engine in the drive. Found the A/C belt flutters intermittently so I removed it for now (I never use it anyway).
6. Ran out of time to take it out again so I'll try again tonight.

My runs consisted of going up very large hills over and over with a full fuel tank, 250 lbs in the trunk and my fatazz in the seat with intermittent runs through industrial parks or church parking lots.

Observations:
At original setting above engine had serious oomph and timing about 9 degrees at 2800 rpms. At the second setting I had good lower speed responsiveness (timing at 2 degrees at 2800 rpms) but I know it
had to end up closer to what I had before - it flattened out quickly and felt "mushy" at this second setting. I think this is what BearGFR was referring to as knowing what to ask and how to listen...
I think I need a timing tape to be more accurate even if it doesn't last long - read on the interweb they fall off quickly which really won't be a problem for me. It will be helpful while I'm dialing this thing in.

So far so good, no oil, coolant or transmission leaks!!

View attachment 96826


I'd rather have Posi but it's all I gots...

Below is from Pontiac Street performance site posted by BearGFR 2011 - Thanks Bear!



Your motor will tell you what it likes, but you have to know how to ask and how to listen for the answer.

36 total is a great starting point. To find the optimum, you need a track (or a stretch of "safe" road) and a good, accurate, repeatable way to measure time.

Start off with something "less than" 36 total, say --- oh, 32 or so.

"Make a run" - record the time. Bump timing up a degree, maybe two --- lather, rinse, repeat. You're looking for the point where your times stop improving and start to fall off again. Once you find that point, back off to your previous setting (which you now know is "best" for your engine). Now take your timing light and read how much initial timing that is, just so that in the future you'll be able to return to your motor's "happy value" without having to go through all that again.

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Took her out tonight and even ventured on to the highway... she did heat up to 200 (and no higher) on the highway but dropped to 195 (thermostat I used) as soon as I slowed which seems counter intuitive but I know that's how it goes. I like how it pulls now. MUCH better than the first build when it was choking on oil. 

View attachment 96938


I will get a timing tape so I can know exactly where I am, I suspect I need to tweak the timing especially when it gets fully broken in. I will also need to install stiffer distributor weight springs. I'm currently using the original or lightest springs.

I fear the rear tires don't have a chance now. 

Over the last three days I've taken her up and down the largest hills in my area in an attempt to break-in the engine under a load. Basically up and down the roads through the valleys near my home. It seems to be pretty happy at the moment. No apparent leaks or other issues - I have not climbed under her yet to inspect down under.

I "tweaked" the front bearings tonight as well so now steering is not so adventurous.

Looks like the fluttering noise was the A/C belt so that is good for now.


I suspect this is how the engine feels on the high test gas! 

View attachment 96930


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm at a loss for words... under 300 miles to date on this rebuild.

View attachment 97218


Found the exhaust loose at the headers, I didn't check my assistants work.

Changed the oil at 100 miles, found three tiny tiny pieces of metal in the oil, one magnetic.

Opened oil filter, found some shinny specs, non-magnetic.

Set initial timing ~ 22 degrees, revved to 2800 rpms and set at ~ 15 degrees so I have about 10 degrees of mechanical advance - I'm at ~ 25 initial and 35 total. I'll leave it here for a while as I continue to break her in. I like how it pulls and it sounds great. I have a bit of valve noise so I'll adjust those after some more break in time. The timing tape helps a lot with the bright numbers and hash marks. If nothing else gives you a sense of comfort "knowing" where your setting is.

Dash and seats are in and to my surprise everything still works. Still need to do some finish work (center console, A/C duct, glove box, kick panels, sill plates etc).

View attachment 97234


My lovely assistant tightening the worst of the air control mount bolts... (under and behind the center air duct)

View attachment 97226


Head light switch appears to be lacking some support, I have an extra Z shaped bracket but I have no idea where it goes. I also need to figure out where the flasher relay goes.

Still running up and down the largest hills in my area with some short sprints on the highway - about a hour total trip time each time.

I'm running 93 Octane with a supposed 30 Octane booster.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Already posted something similar but I used this "method" from BearGFR in post #5 .

http://www.gtoforum.com/f170/total-timing-115153/

Very well said Bear.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

More testing today... set timing at 24 degrees initial but she didn't like it. She cackled going up a very large hill so I brought her home and set her back at 22 then took it for a another run. She responded/pulled well and didn't cackle except right when the timing is all-in... I will probably dial it back to 19 or 18 to see if that does the trick.

I am leaning strongly toward replacing the distributor springs and even the weights. The sets I have now are original so they are most likely not a good fit for the mild cam and roller lifter setup in the engine now.

View attachment 97410


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Finishing touches...*

Glove box, glove box light and trunk release in... fixed some previous owner wiring issues and installed missing pieces like wire holders, routed wires correctly etc.

Next A/C vents, oil and water gauges, courtesy lights, Flasher mount, kick panels, sill covers and center console...

View attachment 97442


View attachment 97450


View attachment 97458


View attachment 97466


Odd, I have two ways to aluminate the ashtray. One with the fiber optic light in the top (source is a light in the gauge cluster) and a small lamp on a gray wire but there is no where to mount the lamp...


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## ajluzi1957 (Mar 22, 2017)

Hi Dan,
I love following this thread as I have a 69 that I've been learning on. I'm no expert, but from what I have read, the fiber optic one is the correct one for the ash tray. Are you sure the single on the gray wire is for the ash tray? could it be for the temperature control above it?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Most likely the lamp/light for the cigar/cigarette lighter.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

ajluzi1957 said:


> Hi Dan,
> I love following this thread as I have a 69 that I've been learning on. I'm no expert, but from what I have read, the fiber optic one is the correct one for the ash tray. Are you sure the single on the gray wire is for the ash tray? could it be for the temperature control above it?


Thanks ajlkuzi, hopefully your project has gone smoother than mine.  I used the fiber optic for mine. The temp control already had a lamp on it (right side).



PontiacJim said:


> Most likely the lamp/light for the cigar/cigarette lighter.


Thanks Jim, I can't see how unless I'm missing a housing of some sort which goes around the lighter. Mine screws together and has a single orange and black wire connection. The "natural" feel of the wire length and position suggests something in that area. My shop manual shows/says it is a light for the ashtray - that's why I'm confused I would have the fiber optic as well. 

As I've found out working on this car you never know what someone has done in the past.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

I have a diagram of the wiring which shows the fiber optic light as you describe for the ash tray as well as a *grey wire*/light shown for the cigar lighter. As usual, not nice clear or exploded view showing any details as to how it attaches or fits on the cigar lighter, but it is called a "hood" and attaches to the top/rear on the cigar lighter housing. This attached to the body and shined in through a series of open slots at the rear of the housing/body. Now it is possible that it has been changed out and a non-factory unit has been installed which may not allow for the attachment of that light.

Now looking at the wiring diagram, I see an *orange/dbl black wire* in the same position adjacent to the fiber optic wire and is shown as the power source plugging into the back of the cigar lighter. 

Found this for sale on the internet as a 1969 Pontiac lighter. Shows the details with the light and the power post found at the end of the lighter housing. 69 1969 PONTIAC DASH CIGAR CIGARETTE LIGHTER | eBay


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> I have a diagram of the wiring which shows the fiber optic light as you describe for the ash tray as well as a *grey wire*/light shown for the cigar lighter. As usual, not nice clear or exploded view showing any details as to how it attaches or fits on the cigar lighter, but it is called a "hood" and attaches to the top/rear on the cigar lighter housing. This attached to the body and shined in through a series of open slots at the rear of the housing/body. Now it is possible that it has been changed out and a non-factory unit has been installed which may not allow for the attachment of that light.
> 
> Now looking at the wiring diagram, I see an *orange/dbl black wire* in the same position adjacent to the fiber optic wire and is shown as the power source plugging into the back of the cigar lighter.
> 
> Found this for sale on the internet as a 1969 Pontiac lighter. Shows the details with the light and the power post found at the end of the lighter housing. 69 1969 PONTIAC DASH CIGAR CIGARETTE LIGHTER | eBay


Yep that is the orange/black wire I used and that unit looks like what I'm missing - makes sense.

Thanks for the information and link PontiacJim!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Spray painted the interior of my center console again so hopefully that will help stop/seal in that smell. Only been two days but so far so good.

Went to pull the water pump this am but I'm not so sure if its leaking or it jettisoned some of the grease from the bearing. The goo was very sticky, it had a bit o-green coloring but definitely the vast majority of the goo is grease. Any one experience this before?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

WOW! 300 miles on the new engine so I took it out on the highway for a longer run (5-10 miles). I punched it, nowhere near full throttle, and it hit triple digits in a hurry:wink3:. It's been decades since I've driven a car with a big engine that fast. It was lots-o-fun!! 

Rolled under her to check for leaks, no engine leaks, one small transmission leak at the tail shaft which I'll have looked at and a small rear-end leak (tightened a couple bolts).

Starter wires look great as well as the rest of the underside. I'll wash the bottom later to remove all the crap that blew around under there later.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Waited along time to get to install these...

View attachment 97850


View attachment 97858


Ended up buying this, guy gave me a deal and free shipping. I definitely had an "incorrect" lighter in my car. Now to figure out how to replace it with the A/C vents already installed. It's in really good shape.

View attachment 97866


I'm also having a fuse/short issue with the blower/A/C circuit... my next tasks.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dan: "I punched it, nowhere near full throttle, and it hit triple digits in a hurry. It's been decades since I've driven a car with a big engine that fast. It was lots-o-fun!!"

PJ: Yup, what a feel. Triple digits in no time. And the sad part are those who insist on dropping in an LS engine _before_ they have had the opportunity to experience the torque and HP of a good pulling Pontiac engine. I get it if you are saving a car, but I think the experience of controlling that Q-jet sitting atop any Pontiac engine is nothing but smiles. You don't need 400-500-600 HP to enjoy a fast ride.

Just for shits & giggles, see if you can reverse your air cleaner lid upside down to create an open element air filter and listen to that Q-jet sound! Awesome in my book. I do this on my cars. You can flip it back when you go to show it.

Lighter looks correct and you should have no problem installing it. Someone must have replaced yours at some point.

It is finally all coming together for you. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Agreed Jim, not sure why someone is gung-ho about replacing these power plants with modern rigs (I.E. LS), guess I'm a "don't fix it if it ain't broke" kind a guy.



PontiacJim said:


> Dan: "I punched it, nowhere near full throttle, and it hit triple digits in a hurry. It's been decades since I've driven a car with a big engine that fast. It was lots-o-fun!!"
> 
> PJ: Yup, what a feel. Triple digits in no time. And the sad part are those who insist on dropping in an LS engine _before_ they have had the opportunity to experience the torque and HP of a good pulling Pontiac engine. I get it if you are saving a car, but I think the experience of controlling that Q-jet sitting atop any Pontiac engine is nothing but smiles. You don't need 400-500-600 HP to enjoy a fast ride.


Funny, I used to do that with the air cleaner lid on my '72 428-4 barrel in a Mercury Marquis. First car I had up to 125 mph, it almost killed me... literally - that's when I learned a car going 125 doesn't turn/handle very well. I do get some of that deep throttle sound already because my air filter (K&N) is too large for the housing so there is a 1/4" or so gap between the housing and lid but I will use my spare lid to do that next time I take her out. 



PontiacJim said:


> Just for shits & giggles, see if you can reverse your air cleaner lid upside down to create an open element air filter and listen to that Q-jet sound! Awesome in my book. I do this on my cars. You can flip it back when you go to show it.


Thanks, it's been a long time coming, it tried my patience more than once over the last two years! 



PontiacJim said:


> It is finally all coming together for you. :thumbsup:


Yep, I've found several times there is no guarantee that what you get a car with is what it's supposed to have.



PontiacJim said:


> Lighter looks correct and you should have no problem installing it. Someone must have replaced yours at some point.


I'm looking forward to a long and fun driving adventure in this car!

View attachment 97874


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

WOOF!!! 

Had time to "make a run tonight", got a little braver and pegged the speedo (ever so briefly) but still didn't bury the throttle... man that got the blood pumping!! > Good thing there was some traffic, otherwise I probably would have gotten a ticket. 

I absolutely love the sound this beast makes when you step on it at highway speeds - especially under bridges and bouncing off the Jersey barriers! It literally roars! And pulling away from lights ain't to bad either... :grin2:

I am gonna have a ball monkeying around with this!
View attachment 97922


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Addictive, ain't it? 0

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Crack on wheeels!:Scottwax1:



BearGFR said:


> Addictive, ain't it? 0
> 
> Bear


I laugh my ass off when someone pulls up next to me and I punch it... bye bye. :seeya:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Mid-life crisis I'm thinkin' :yesnod: Just wait until you get some miles on it and stomping the pedal at the red light/stop sign smokes the tires and leaves those tell-tale black strips behind you. A tire on fire smells bad. Burning rubber smells good. EXPERIENCE the difference - *GTO*. :thumbsup:


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

PontiacJim said:


> Mid-life crisis I'm thinkin' :yesnod: Just wait until you get some miles on it and stomping the pedal at the red light/stop sign smokes the tires and leaves those tell-tale black strips behind you. A tire on fire smells bad. Burning rubber smells good. EXPERIENCE the difference - *GTO*. :thumbsup:


Jim, LOve your Thumbnail!!:smile3:


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

1968gto421 said:


> Jim, LOve your Thumbnail!!:smile3:


Thanks. I actually purchased a metal sign that has the same quote and yellow safety sign on it from a local store, Hobby Lobby. Figured it would make a nice prop to use on my car if/when I take it to a car show. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Mid-life crisis I'm thinkin' :yesnod: Just wait until you get some miles on it and stomping the pedal at the red light/stop sign smokes the tires and leaves those tell-tale black strips behind you. A tire on fire smells bad. Burning rubber smells good. EXPERIENCE the difference - *GTO*. :thumbsup:


I'm a bit old for a mid-life crisis but if this is a mid-life crisis thing hell yea I'll own that! the driveway is starting to look like a drag strip. 

Took her out for an 80 miles half-a-tank drive today - mostly highway. I was a nervous wreck the whole time (being that far from home) but she did great. Bummer winter is fast approaching my area... won't be long now before snow and road salt halt my play time.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Mid-life crisis I'm thinkin' :yesnod: Just wait until you get some miles on it and stomping the pedal at the red light/stop sign smokes the tires and leaves those tell-tale black strips behind you. A tire on fire smells bad. Burning rubber smells good. EXPERIENCE the difference - *GTO*. :thumbsup:


I have a sign with the same verbiage, my driveway is looking just like it as well.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dan: "I'm a bit old for a mid-life crisis but if this is a mid-life crisis thing hell yea I'll own that!"

PJ: Gotta remember Dan, we are living near 100 these days if you take care of yourself, so midlife in my book is somewhere in our 50's. I plan on seeing my 105th birthday, so I'm on the down side of midlife but got a lot more years to go. Figure I will outlive most of the guys who presently own all these high-dollar muscle cars and hot rods and when their families sell them off at pennies on the dollar because "its just an old car" that they have no clue on how to maintain it..........I'll be there to pick one up and enjoy it for a few more years longer. That's my plan! 

Oh, and being single, I got a plan for finding me one of those old ladies who's husband worked all his life in top management making all those big bucks and passed away early. And then there is checking myself into a nursing home with all those single widowed old gals at my beckoning. Yep, got me a plan for that too. :reddevil:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Dan: "I'm a bit old for a mid-life crisis but if this is a mid-life crisis thing hell yea I'll own that!"
> 
> PJ: Gotta remember Dan, we are living near 100 these days if you take care of yourself, so midlife in my book is somewhere in our 50's. I plan on seeing my 105th birthday, so I'm on the down side of midlife but got a lot more years to go. Figure I will outlive most of the guys who presently own all these high-dollar muscle cars and hot rods and when their families sell them off at pennies on the dollar because "its just an old car" that they have no clue on how to maintain it..........I'll be there to pick one up and enjoy it for a few more years longer. That's my plan!
> 
> Oh, and being single, I got a plan for finding me one of those old ladies who's husband worked all his life in top management making all those big bucks and passed away early. And then there is checking myself into a nursing home with all those single widowed old gals at my beckoning. Yep, got me a plan for that too. :reddevil:


I'm working on the average lifespan of 77 so I'm having as much fun as I can now. 

It's great to have a plan as long as you enjoy the trip as you go!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Hour long drive yesterday and she started to knock at higher/heavy throttle so I backed down the timing 22 to ~19-20. It knocked the aggressiveness/sound down a touch but she still runs really strong. Now I need to adjust the high idle when it's cold.

600 miles on the new engine... so far so good! Doing my best to leave rubber all over town (neighborhoods, churches, schools, stop lights and driveways > ).


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dan: "Doing my best to leave rubber all over town (neighborhoods, churches, schools, stop lights and driveways.

Ya buddy. Don't be surprised if you find Chevelles, Mustangs, Roadrunners, AMX's, 442's, and the like lifting up a left rear tire and trying to leave their rubber over yours trying to re-mark your territory. :yesnod:

Dan: "Hour long drive yesterday and she started to knock at higher/heavy throttle so I backed down the timing 22 to ~19-20. It knocked the aggressiveness/sound down a touch but she still runs really strong."

"Backed the timing from 22 to 19/20" - timing at the crank or are you talking mechanical advance in the distributor? You don't want any knock/pinging sound. Assume you are using the Premium pump gas? You want to back down your timing until "no knock/pinging" is heard or mix in some racing gas which may take care of it.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Dan: "Doing my best to leave rubber all over town (neighborhoods, churches, schools, stop lights and driveways.
> 
> Ya buddy. Don't be surprised if you find Chevelles, Mustangs, Roadrunners, AMX's, 442's, and the like lifting up a left rear tire and trying to leave their rubber over yours trying to re-mark your territory. :yesnod:


LMAO 

Bring it on! :grin2:



PontiacJim said:


> Dan: "Hour long drive yesterday and she started to knock at higher/heavy throttle so I backed down the timing 22 to ~19-20. It knocked the aggressiveness/sound down a touch but she still runs really strong."
> 
> "Backed the timing from 22 to 19/20" - timing at the crank or are you talking mechanical advance in the distributor? You don't want any knock/pinging sound. Assume you are using the Premium pump gas? You want to back down your timing until "no knock/pinging" is heard or mix in some racing gas which may take care of it.


Initial crank timing. I have about 10 degrees of mechanical timing - I'll probalby change the springs at some point, they have to be just about shot. 

I've been backing down the timing a degree or two each time I hear any "cackling" or pinging. I started out around 26 degrees initial BTDC... I'm running 93 octane with a, supposed, 30 Octane booster.



View attachment 98601


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nough said...

View attachment 98658


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

ok, I lied... man, I really like my 85HP truck but this beast is soo much fun!!! Somehow today I lost 17 gallons of gasoline. .... and at least a 16th of tread on a couple tires.....>

Probably a good thing winter is just around the corner. 

View attachment 98666


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> ok, I lied... man, I really like my 85HP truck but this beast is soo much fun!!! Somehow today I lost 17 gallons of gasoline. .... and at least a 16th of tread on a couple tires.....>
> 
> Probably a good thing winter is just around the corner.
> 
> View attachment 98666


Yep, and that's why I never did drugs, drank alcohol, or chased after loose women. Burning up a tank of gas was more enjoyable (and sometimes cheaper) than the drugs or alcohol. But after I did burn up that tank of gas, making $2.35 an hour left me with just enough money to put another 1/2 a tank of gas into the car to get me back and forth to work and no money left over to chase after the loose women. Ah, the sacrifices we have to make between our hot rod and our "hot rod." :blush2: 

Just remember, Confucius say "He who pulls out too fast leaves rubber."


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Yep, and that's why I never did drugs, drank alcohol, or chased after loose women. Burning up a tank of gas was more enjoyable (and sometimes cheaper) than the drugs or alcohol. But after I did burn up that tank of gas, making $2.35 an hour left me with just enough money to put another 1/2 a tank of gas into the car to get me back and forth to work and no money left over to chase after the loose women. Ah, the sacrifices we have to make between our hot rod and our "hot rod." :blush2:
> 
> Just remember, Confucius say "He who pulls out too fast leaves rubber."


Never went for that myself... adrenaline is a much better high.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Took her to work today... I have no doubt I had THE coolest car on the commute to the office today... I just might take her again Thursday!! 

As mentioned above I backed the timing down a couple degrees the other day. I still get a knock at moderate throttle going up hill at highway speeds - but only one or two knocks. I'm wondering if it's at the very end of the mechanical advance range (just before it's all in) because I can feather the throttle and get "by it" or just back off the throttle until I get to flat ground then all is good no matter the speed etc. 

On very large hills at city street level I don't get any noises except the gravely growl that is a Pontiac 400 under heavy throttle. 

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Early sunset and boredom I turn back to the finer points of this restoration...

I found an OE rear view mirror in much better shape than mine - glass wise. The after market units suck and they cheat on the size (width).

Question for the GTO masses: were the rear view mirrors color coordinated with the interior/dash? This one is light gray, my interior is Parchment and the car/dash is black... 

Amazing how much crap Blue Magic gets off metal bits... love this stuff, it saves a lot of parts. I masked off the rubber and level to avoid getting Blue Magic on it.

View attachment 98850


View attachment 98810


View attachment 98818


The flash exposes scratches but they are not noticeable otherwise.

View attachment 98834


View attachment 98842


The glass has some nasty parts but overall it's better than mine. It will do until I find another or can get my original rebuilt. The glass on these mirrors is VERY thick.

The post on this one is much better than mine. I'll use ceramic silicone grease on the pivot point which should last forever.

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - take tomorrow
2. Cigar lighter swap
3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks
4. Center console
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
6. Install "new" rear view mirror
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
13. Sort new and found GTO parts (install/use what I can).
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel

More, a lot more to come...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Hey Dan, you mentioned an oil pressure fitting leak. Where's it leaking exactly? If it's around the fitting that screws into the oil filter housing, be sure and check the housing itself. It's very easy to over-tighten the switch/sending-unit and crack the housing itself. (voice of experience here) 

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Hey Dan, you mentioned an oil pressure fitting leak. Where's it leaking exactly? If it's around the fitting that screws into the oil filter housing, be sure and check the housing itself. It's very easy to over-tighten the switch/sending-unit and crack the housing itself. (voice of experience here)
> 
> Bear


Thanks Bear, I think I'm fine there - I've not been under the car for a coupe weeks so I don't "know" I have any issues there at the moment.. 

My leak is at/behind the gauge in the cabin. I installed a new copper line with the second engine rebuild so I may have boogered it up. If I did I left lots of play in the line so I can pull some new line into the cabin. I'm afraid to over tighten it as I have a tendency of doing that so I may just need to tighten it a bit - that's one reason why I'm a stickler for torque specs. :wink3:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Took her to the trans shop last week but they had trouble with another 69 GTO where the owner modified the car by adding a His-n-Hers shifter without using the right linkage etc. They did determine it’s the tail shaft gasket on mine – probably a variance in the housing mating surfaces.
It snowed here last Friday so I'm probably waiting until next spring now - they already dropped salt on the roads (unless it rains heavily in the next day or two.
I took her out last Thursday night after my work and Summit runs so now I have about 6-700 miles on the new engine. Other than the distributor weight springs being weak affecting when all-in occurs I have not had any issues…. Knock on an iron Pontiac block. I’ll crawl under her in the next few days on leak patrol.

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak 
2. Cigar lighter swap
3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge
4. Center console - smell, light and cover
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
6. Install "new" rear view mirror
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
13. Sort new and found GTO parts (install/use what I can).
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
20. Swap Distributor weight springs.
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender

morrrre to commmeee....


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ordered rear springs/rubbers and speedo cable yesterday… may as well do everything I can to her over the next 6-7 months while we (me and her) are trapped inside all winter.

Also did a BUNCH of research on Oil Filters. To me, it appears there is no such thing as a perfect filter but there is definitely a difference in the thinking of how engine oil should be filtered. 

I started a related thread here...

http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/old-sticky-subject-subjective-subject-124442/#post826354

View attachment 99570


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The more I do the more I find to fix...

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak 
2. Cigar lighter swap
3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge
4. Center console - smell, light and cover
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
6. Install "new" rear view mirror
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
13. Sort new and found GTO parts (install/use what I can).
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
20. Swap Distributor weight springs.
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender
27. Replace rear springs
28. Polish/Wax
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet).
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Stop looking for things to do on this thing...

View attachment 99578


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started on my list today after I washed her up for the last time this year/season, almost nothing better than a clean purdy late 60s GTO in the sun!

Oooopps, got standard springs but I needed progressive rate springs - my car has a Grand Prix rear end so they must have transferred the springs over. Reordered and will pick up tomorrow. Found out someone installed the left rear spring incorrectly - was bottoming out on the axel tube. Might answer the odd noises I was getting from the rear. Will most likely do all the bushings as well this winter - I have a bit of "torque flex" when I step on it but that is probably only fixed by boxing my rear control arms. I also have a weird feel in my seat like the back end is "swaying" side to side.

Looks like the speedo cable won't work either - I'll check that out tomorrow to make sure before I go back to Summit. 

This kind of stuff falls under the "You don't always got what you think you do" on these old cars. Too many hands and years have touched this ride so I'm still finding out what is what.

Also got the wrong oil filter (transposed part numbers 3002 versus 2003) so I'll get that tomorrow as well. Decided on the K&N filter. Man it is MUCH heavier than the FRAMs I've been using. When I swap the filters I'll cut open the FRAM again to check for metal or failure. I'll do the same for the K&N as well.

View attachment 99650


Also checked out the rear brakes while I had the tires off... so far so good.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

OER branded Speedo Cable didn't work. The flare is much larger on the "push-on" end at the speedometer head. I'll have to lube this one and see if that works. First I may taking off the transmission side and lubricating it from that end then figure out how it's run into the cab.

Picked up correct springs... and oil filters. The K&N is slightly larger than the FRAM in length and girth and is MUCH heavier! 

Turns out the springs I currently have are "cargo control" progressive type so I bought the Grand Prix model Moog part number MOG-CC501. They should match my current spring height - 1.5 inches higher than the previous "stock" set I returned with very wide coils. I can compress the current springs very easily with one hand and it takes a bit more effort to compress the new ones, as it should. Should help with the sloppy feeling at the rear of the car.

Notice where the left spring was hitting the axel tube. That spring was "turned" so it hit the tube. I turned it so now it doesn't hit - I'm guessing it's not supposed to rest or hit the tube.

View attachment 99690


View attachment 99682


View attachment 99674


Figured out what this bracket is for... Do yo know?

View attachment 99698


More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Also found a leak which I knew I had but never "knew" where...

Starts here...

View attachment 99722


TRavels down the seam and truck channel then hits the tail light housing where the leak is...

View attachment 99714


View attachment 99706


Hopefully this is fixed by the new tail light seals.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

dan woodland said:


> This kind of stuff falls under the "You don't always got what you think you do" on these old cars. Too many hands and years have touched this ride so I'm still finding out what is what.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99650


Dan,
Have NO idea what the "stair step" bracket is for. Your phrase "You don't always got what you think you do" is so very true about our cars. Besides dealing with the normal stuff of a near 50 year old car, we also have to correct what previous owners and "mechanics" have done. Ah, the joy of it all:cryin:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1968gto421 said:


> Dan,
> Have NO idea what the "stair step" bracket is for.


That part is the "rear" support bracket for the ashtray. I didn't take pics of that before I took it off so I forgot where it was used.



1968gto421 said:


> Dan,
> Your phrase "You don't always got what you think you do" is so very true about our cars. Besides dealing with the normal stuff of a near 50 year old car, we also have to correct what previous owners and "mechanics" have done. Ah, the joy of it all:cryin:


Ain't that the truth!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

After I swapped out the correct rear springs I took her out for a 1/4 tank blast today (roads have no salt and rained last week!) - 65 degrees today!!! Love the smell of burning rubber on a late 65 degree November day! 

There IS a specific way to orient the springs and the old ones WERE installed incorrectly. At least according to this diagram which came with the new springs.

View attachment 99825


Springs were shorter by 1/4 inch in height than the old but I still used them. They were also smaller in diameter - they are visually different but way less than thought when measured. I used some old AMERICAN made replacements, they will never fail!

View attachment 99841


View attachment 99833


The shock lock washers failed at 40ft lbs (spec is 65)! and ate the washer so I had to replace them.

View attachment 99849


Not on the list but I also swapped out the FRAM oil filter for the K&N and added some oil stabilizer to help with valve train noise etc - it works for now. Opened the FRAM it did not fail in any way but the oil did look pretty dirty in the filter - I think some of it is residual assembly lube, it had the same gray/silver sheen to it as the break in oil when I changed it. Also, NO metal in the filter.

View attachment 99857


These small hour or two jobs are the fun ones I've been looking forward to... Always moving closer to perfection.

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak 
2. Cigar lighter swap
3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge
4. Center console - smell, light and cover
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
6. Install "new" rear view mirror
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
13. Sort new and found GTO parts (install/use what I can).
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
20. Swap Distributor weight springs.
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet).
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Stop looking for things to do on this thing...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The new rear springs didn't help the stance at all but the rear is more stabile. I did also verify the bushings are shot. I have about 1.25 inch difference between the two sides with the passenger side being higher. 

How do I fix that? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"The shock lock washers failed at 40ft lbs (spec is 65)! and ate the washer so I had to replace them."

PJ: Yep, have had that happen several times to me as well. Some of the washers supplied are definitely inferior garbage, and are made of soft metal that was not intended for any application as a lock washer - they either go flat or bust as you experienced. I go to my local hardware store and go with Grade 8 on most things just because I know it will be better metal. Tractor Supply near me sell their Grade 5 & Grade 8 bolts/nuts/washers by weight, not the piece or package, so I can stock up on a lot of assorted sizes that I use for cheap.

" Love the smell of burning rubber on a late 65 degree November day!"

PJ: Wow, some guys just never grow up - me included! :thumbsup: I am a member on a Fury website owning my '73 Fury, and there was a video of one of the members smoking the tires off on his Fury GT with 440CI. Other member just could not comprehend why anyone would do that or enjoy it. I had to tell 'em, you either get it or you don't - its that simple. :yesnod:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> "The shock lock washers failed at 40ft lbs (spec is 65)! and ate the washer so I had to replace them."
> 
> PJ: Yep, have had that happen several times to me as well. Some of the washers supplied are definitely inferior garbage, and are made of soft metal that was not intended for any application as a lock washer - they either go flat or bust as you experienced. I go to my local hardware store and go with Grade 8 on most things just because I know it will be better metal. Tractor Supply near me sell their Grade 5 & Grade 8 bolts/nuts/washers by weight, not the piece or package, so I can stock up on a lot of assorted sizes that I use for cheap.


Yep, I do the same for nut, bolt and washers like that but had to get her back together so I could drive her this afternoon - I have some "old stock" hardware I've inherited over the the years. They are not grade 8 but they are definitely NOT that crap I just replaced.



PontiacJim said:


> " Love the smell of burning rubber on a late 65 degree November day!"
> 
> PJ: Wow, some guys just never grow up - me included! :thumbsup: I am a member on a Fury website owning my '73 Fury, and there was a video of one of the members smoking the tires off on his Fury GT with 440CI. Other member just could not comprehend why anyone would do that or enjoy it. I had to tell 'em, you either get it or you don't - its that simple. :yesnod:


:laugh2:

:bannana:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Not on the list below but I tested the vacuum advance today... it leaks but realllllly slowly. It doesn't seem to affect operation while running so I'll acquire and install a new one later. Need to figure out which distributor I have, parts listings only show two one US and one Canadian.

Swapped out the distributor weight springs today - silver for black. Tested her with and without vacuum advance. She ran okay but hesitated off the line too much for my liking so I reconnected the vacuum. The weight change didn't seem to affect local road performance so I'll have to wait until spring to test on the highway. Around here they spray liquid deicer and it is REALLY sticky AND corrosive so I don't go anywhere near that stuff - locally it rained Thursday so the roads where clear and clean and it was 55 today so good for me, bad for tires. >

It was really hard putting her away today... it's gonna be a long winter for me. :crying:

The silver springs in my new timing curve kit (I used the old weights) looked the same as I had installed so I went to the black to bring timing in a little faster as the chart says the silver are the latest/slowest...

The list below (top to bottom - fastest to slowest) is GOLD, Black, Silver. I have 10 degrees of mechanical advance (MAX) so it will come in about 1500 RPMS sooner (3500 versus 5000 RPMS). Hopefully this solves the milliseconds of cackling at highway speed when I stomp on it from 60/80 MPH.

View attachment 99945


View attachment 99953


Weather permitting I'll take her to get the trans leak fixed this week.

Dash stuff like the lighter swap will have to wait until I get a radio etc I only want to remove the A/C vents once... or I may take them out and leave them out until I get eveything settled under the dash. 

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak 
2. Cigar lighter swap
3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge
4. Center console - smell, light and cover
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
6. Install "new" rear view mirror
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
13. Sort new and found GTO parts (install/use what I can).
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
*20. Swap Distributor weight springs. DONE*
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet).
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
34. Stop looking for things to do on this thing... in other words more to come.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Saw the "install posi" on your list. You have several options in that area depending on what you plan to do with the rear end, ie complete rebuild, just add a posi, and if you or a shop will be doing it.

I am sure, like me, that if you rebuild & go through the entire rear that you will have a shop do that. BUT, there is a posi unit that you can install yourself if you want to keep the rear as is and save some money. https://www.powertrax.com/traction-...r:1969;make:pontiac;modelandsubmodel:gto+base I am running one of these in my Ford 9" because they can handle big HP & torque, are simple, and don't have a clutch pack. I installed it into the carrier I purchased - but brought it and all the center section parts (housing,gears,bearings,shims,seals, etc.) to a local shop who assemble everything for me. Have not run it yet to try it as my car is no where ready for the road at this point.

The Powertrax - No-Slip Traction System is something you yourself can install. You can read more on their website about the locker and they have the PDF for installation. You will have to pull your axles, so a good time to have a shop press on new bearings, add some new seals, new rear cover gasket, and fluid.

Now there is a difference between a "locker" and a "limited slip posi" unit. The locker eliminates the clutches used in many limited slip carriers - which can wear out over time and you don't have to use a special posi fluid additive. You also have to match your gears to the limited slip carrier whereas the Powertrax is one size fits all. The limited slip is quieter whereas the locker, by design, may give off a ratcheting/clicking sound in tight turn situations - but many say you don't hear it from the drivers seat. The "Detroit Lockers" used by the factory are much louder, the PowerTraxx by design is supposed to be much quieter according to the rep I emailed before my purchase. I did the research before selecting one of these units. 

Found this on the Summit website which basically explains how it works:

*Question*: How do you lock and unlock it? It says it works like a spool but also as an open diff. I'm curious how to apply the lock.

*Answer*: While coasting the springs push the middle two plates together, disengaging the teeth of the middle gears and each outer gear, effectively unlocking the axles, allowing them to rotate at different speeds.

When you accelerate(see the other guys answer!), the pin rotating forces the middle two plates out, engaging the teeth of the middle two plates with the teeth of the outer two plates and positively locks the axles together.

Brilliantly simple! So;
skinny pedal down = locked.
Foot off gas = unlocked.

Just a suggestion. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Jim,

Yea, that is one of the larger things I WANT to do - don't have to... I currently have a open diff (I know how they (both) work) and had to have the rear end rebuilt last summer - leaks and noises forced my hand. I was not ready to look into posi it at the time. I needed to figure out if my current rear end could accommodate it and the unit I bought could be transferred into the "new" one I find later. This is when I started looking for a correct GTO complete rear end. There is a "local" shop who restores and rebuilds rear ends... They range from $800-1200 depending on how beefy you go (or brand of posi used and how much restoration is done. They are usually plug and play with new bushings, posi, seals, bearings, backing plates etc etc.

I plan to look for a complete rear end (GTO) because I currently have a Grand Prix rear end. I could just install a Posi unit in this rear end but I'm planning to find a proper GTO rear end to further restore my car back to an all GTO drivetrain (as much as I can).

I'm in the process of saving my "allowance" for the whole kit and caboodle. :wink3:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sorted all the parts I received from the neighbors B-I-L. After selling off the parts I don't need there are a number of good brand new OE/GM parts I can use over time so this should be fun... (stuff like nose filler piece bolts, door lock gaskets, nuts bolts and many many more small bits). Decided to pull the A/C vents and install/fix all the stuff in the dash over winter - can't drive her anymore, roads are being salted regularly now.:crying:

As a result of that the transmission leak will have to wait until spring. I should have a lot of free time this next two weeks so I hope to get a bunch on my list done.

View attachment 100097


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Almost done sorting parts and such... for all my cars.

View attachment 100121


Now I can start working on her again.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I was able to get some things done today...

Replaced the horns... I'm not sure if the ones I "had" are correct or not, they are not alike, but at least now they work. The set I bought are supposed to be "correct". New horns came with incorrect brackets so I had to buy those separate. They were not painted so I did that as well.

The bracket on the old parts are welded and the position of the wire connection are not the same. I had to "turn" the horns toward each other so the connections were closer and I didn't have to splice the wire.

View attachment 100273


View attachment 100281


View attachment 100289


View attachment 100297


View attachment 100305


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Also figured out the nose filler piece is not correct and I should NEVER trust a flea market guy no matter how much he sounds like he knows what he is talking about. At least it was only $5.

Flea Market piece is on top... turns out my filler pieces is the exact same one but it was modified to fit. I'll add this to my wish list...

Some of the "found" parts I have from the neighbors brother included the correct bolts to hold the nose piece in place...

View attachment 100313


View attachment 100321


View attachment 100329


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Also tightened the oil pressure gauge line in the cabin... and got the lighter swaped out. It looks and works as it should now.

It's a lousy picture but you can see the light inside the lighter housing.Correct lighter and knob is on the right w/light holder.

View attachment 100337


View attachment 100345


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

It wasn't on the list but I also swapped out the brake pedal pad.

View attachment 100353


To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - Spring
*2. Cigar lighter swap DONE*
*3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge DONE*
4. Center console - smell, light and cover
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
6. Install "new" rear view mirror
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
*8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes DONE*
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
*13. Sort new and found GTO parts DONE*(install/use what I can). 
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
*20. Swap Distributor weight springs. DONE*
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet).
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
34. Locate and install OE nose filler
35. Locate and install OE heater control knobs.
36. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...

37. Stop looking for things to do on this thing... in other words more to come.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Wasn't on the list but I fixed the headlight switch... swapped out the knob and tightened the nut using this...

View attachment 100561


View attachment 100577


View attachment 100593


Th release button was not easy to find with the switch in place so I removed it, released the rod, reinstalled the switch and inserted the NOS knob/rod combo. Notice the button on the bottom of the switch, with the spring.


To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - Spring
*2. Cigar lighter swap DONE*
*3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge DONE*
4. Center console - smell, light and *cover DONE *
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
*6. Install "new" rear view mirror DONE*
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
*8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes DONE*
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
*13. Sort new and found GTO parts DONE*(install/use what I can). 
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
*20. Swap Distributor weight springs. DONE*
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet).
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
34. Locate and install OE nose filler
35. Locate and install OE heater control knobs.
36. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...

37. Stop looking for things to do on this thing... in other words more to come.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Next I swapped out the bad rear view mirror for a "better" mirror.

I got some parts from a neighbors brother... some are OE new and others are OE used but in pretty good shape or better than what I have now. On past project cars/trucks I've replaced parts two or three times because I found better and better OE parts over time - especially cosmetic or expensive (or even unavailable parts). I'll do the same with this car.

I used rubbing alcohol to clean the rubber around the edge... I'll probably "die" the rubber black at some point. The gray is better than the tan I had.

View attachment 100601


View attachment 100609


View attachment 100617


View attachment 100625


Some paint and a couple dabs of ceramic-silicone grease and it works great!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Also fixed the center console top... Used a bit of epoxy and inserted screws just before it hardened. Lid is ready to go on the console. I found a fair OE console liner so I'll be able to use that as well.

I found an OE spring in the parts bin so that saved me some $. Found a lot of parts I can use in the pile I got from neighbors bro.

View attachment 100633


View attachment 100641


View attachment 100649


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - Spring
*2. Cigar lighter swap DONE*
*3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge DONE*
4. Center console - smell, light and *cover DONE *
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
*6. Install "new" rear view mirror DONE*
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
*8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes DONE*
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
*13. Sort new and found GTO parts DONE*(install/use what I can). 
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate and install better OE bucket seat nuts/bolts.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
*20. Swap Distributor weight springs. DONE**
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts DUPLICATE*
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet).
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
34. Locate and install OE nose filler
35. Locate and install OE heater control knobs.
36. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...

37. Stop looking for things to do on this thing... in other words more to come.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got a little done today... swapped out driver seat mounting hardware, installed steering column cover and sound deadener (at drivers feet) , installed nose filler... The nose filler didn't fit as expected but after a little 'massaging' I got it to fit. I'm finally not surprised that something made for these cars doesn't fit without some kind of 'adjustment'.

I really like the original type nose filler better than the 'incorrect' piece I had which was a 70's version cut to fit.

View attachment 100841


View attachment 100849



To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - Spring
*2. Cigar lighter swap DONE*
*3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge DONE*
4. Center console - smell, light and *cover DONE *
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
*6. Install "new" rear view mirror DONE*
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
*8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes DONE*
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
*13. Sort new and found GTO parts DONE*(install/use what I can). 
14. Locate/install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate *DONE* and install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
19. Adjust glove box door
*20. Swap Distributor weight springs. DONE**
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts DUPLICATE
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts DUPLICATE*
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender (ordered and came in) Need to get fittings for top of engine.
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax - found a detail shop specializing in black paint 'restoration'.
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel
*31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet). DONE*
32. Locate and install a posi unit.
33. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
*34. Locate and install OE nose filler DONE*
35. Locate *DONE* and install OE heater control knobs.
36. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
37. Find/ install OE Seat belt retractors and/or seat belts.

38. Stop looking for things to do on this thing... in other words more to come.


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

dan woodland said:


> Started on my list today after I washed her up for the last time this year/season, almost nothing better than a clean purdy late 60s GTO in the sun!
> 
> Oooopps, got standard springs but I needed progressive rate springs - my car has a Grand Prix rear end so they must have transferred the springs over. Reordered and will pick up tomorrow. Found out someone installed the left rear spring incorrectly - was bottoming out on the axel tube. Might answer the odd noises I was getting from the rear. Will most likely do all the bushings as well this winter - I have a bit of "torque flex" when I step on it but that is probably only fixed by boxing my rear control arms. I also have a weird feel in my seat like the back end is "swaying" side to side.
> 
> ...


Dan - I have read this whole blog as well as the tangents on setting the timing and whatnot. What a treasure trove of knowledge and combined experience. What did you treat the master cylinder reservoir with to keep it from rusting?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

integrity6987 said:


> Dan - I have read this whole blog as well as the tangents on setting the timing and whatnot. What a treasure trove of knowledge and combined experience. What did you treat the master cylinder reservoir with to keep it from rusting?


Glad you enjoyed it... it was dicey at times but I was able to get things pulled together with some help from board members. I can't wait to have a full summer of drive time next year. >

Oddly enough I dab mineral sprits on it to "kill" the brake fluid if I have a spill. I also rinse it off if I do work on it. There is a touch of rust starting to show so I'll have to hit it with cast blast at some point.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Steering wheel paint. silver/argent, arrived today as well as a new on-tank heater regulator so now I can warm up the garage and work comfortably when it's 10 degrees outside!

View attachment 100985


View attachment 100993


Some of the best coin I've ever spent... people gave this unit a bad review on-line but it's lasted for many years. I'm assuming they dropped it or left it outside at some point. For me it's been flawless.

View attachment 101001


If anyone has GOOD experience in tracing a blown fuse when the fan is turned on feel free to lend some advice. I'm do NOT have much luck with stuff like this so any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Don't have any electrical advice I'm afraid.But Dan, you are almost there!! A big thank you for documenting your efforts here, you have created a reference guide for the rest of us....THANKYOU!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1968gto421 said:


> Don't have any electrical advice I'm afraid.But Dan, you are almost there!! A big thank you for documenting your efforts here, you have created a reference guide for the rest of us....THANKYOU!!


Thanks for the kind words 1968gto421, that's precisely why I post what I find/do. I figured I'm not the only one running into challenges and for those who have never done something like restoring cars it might be useful. I'm glad it has been useful to others. 

Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Adjusted the glove box door, slightly... it is as good as it's gonna get.

In the process of learning how to use really fine paint brushes. I'll try stripping this off and trying again...

View attachment 101049


View attachment 101057


Now you know why I'm not a pin-stripper by trade... 

Next is items on the rear of the car - taillight and bolt seals, wing pads, license plate light/lens etc etc... that should knock off a few things on my list in one project. Also need to get some brass fittings to move the oil pressure sensor/line to the top of the engine and reinstall the original type oil pressure light sensor.

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - Spring
*2. Cigar lighter swap DONE*
*3. Oil pressure gauge leak - fitting leaks at the gauge DONE*
4. Center console - smell, light and *cover DONE *
5. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
*6. Install "new" rear view mirror DONE*
7. Mount driver side courtesy light
*8. Replace horns - fix nose piece sheet metal screw holes DONE*
9. Blower fuse
10. License plate light
11. Rear marker light seals
12. Tail light seals
*13. Sort new and found GTO parts DONE*(install/use what I can). 
14. Locate*DONE*install OE missing upper Fender bolts
15. Locate *DONE* and install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
16. Clean and detail tires
17. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
*18. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease. DONE*
*19. Adjust glove box door DONE*
*20. Swap Distributor weight springs. DONE**
21. Locate and install OE Seat mount bolts DUPLICATE
22. Locate and install OE front fender bolts DUPLICATE*
23. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
24. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
25. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
26. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender (ordered and came in) Need to get fittings for top of engine.
_*27. Replace rear springs DONE*_
28. Polish/Wax - found a detail shop specializing in black paint 'restoration'.
29. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
30. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
*31. Install steering column cover (at drivers feet). DONE*
*32. Locate and install a posi unit. GOING TO STICK WITH WHAT I HAVE*
33. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
*34. Locate and install OE nose filler DONE*
35. Locate *DONE* and install OE heater control knobs.
36. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
*37. Find/ install OE Seat belt retractors and/or seat belts. GOING TO STICK WITH WHAT I HAVE*

38. Stop looking for things to do on this thing... where's the fun in that? :wink3:

More to come.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

It's been a damned long winter! :| Longest stretch of sub 30 degree days I can remember in decades. No fun working in a cold or artificially heated/humid garage.

Couldn't take it any longer so I turned the key and she DIDN'T roar to life... dead battery? Holy crap it was on a charger all winter. Jumped her and she roared to life!!! What an awesome sound! But.... the roaring was short lived, as I touched the steering wheel to get in and take it off high idle the the horn started to blow and would not stop. Probably the horn wire in the steering column shorting out... I'll have to add that to my list.

Next is items on the rear of the car - taillight and bolt seals, wing pads, license plate light/lens etc etc... that should knock off a few things on my list in one project. 

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - next month
2. Cigar lighter swap DONE - need to swap out the heater/coil this one doesn't work.
3. Center console - smell, light and cover DONE 
4. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).
5. Mount driver side courtesy light
6. fix Horn
7. Blower fuse
8. License plate light
9. Rear marker light seals
10. Tail light seals
11. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
12. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
13. Clean and detail tires
14. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
15. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
16. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
19. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender (ordered and came in) Need to get fittings for top of engine.
20. Polish/Wax - found a detail shop specializing in black paint 'restoration'.
21. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
22. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
23. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
24. Install OE heater control knobs.
25. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

dan woodland said:


> It's been a damned long winter! :| Longest stretch of sub 30 degree days I can remember in decades. No fun working in a cold or artificially heated/humid garage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hopefully it’s a simple short in the horn - but it could be a broken signal switch as well. The plastic gets brittle with age as you are well aware, and if the plastic part of the signal switch that the turn signal arm screws into cracked it can also cause your constant horn issue, as it’s part of the horn assembly as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

soberjoe said:


> Hopefully it’s a simple short in the horn - but it could be a broken signal switch as well. The plastic gets brittle with age as you are well aware, and if the plastic part of the signal switch that the turn signal arm screws into cracked it can also cause your constant horn issue, as it’s part of the horn assembly as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




69 Turn Signal Switch Replacement- Walkthrough
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...orum.com/showthread.php?t=121506&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Excellent! Thanks for the reply and great write up!

I think my issue is the white wire that goes to the horn buttons but I think I'll do your repair as well since I'll have it open!



soberjoe said:


> 69 Turn Signal Switch Replacement- Walkthrough
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...orum.com/showthread.php?t=121506&share_type=t
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ordered my switch today.

Soberjoe... for future reference the corner light option is a very rare feature on these cars - from what I've read, a step below unobtainium.


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

dan woodland said:


> Ordered my switch today.
> 
> 
> 
> Soberjoe... for future reference the corner light option is a very rare feature on these cars - from what I've read, a step below unobtainium.




Excellent.
Keep us posted on the install. Oh, and remember to confirm whether or not the new male plug end will mate with the original female plug end BEFORE you feed it down the steering column 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

soberjoe said:


> Excellent.
> Keep us posted on the install. Oh, and remember to confirm whether or not the new male plug end will mate with the original female plug end BEFORE you feed it down the steering column
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


will do... I bought an "Genuine GM" part so I'm hoping it fits out of the box.  Thanks again for the write up!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Parts arrived and so is more freakin snow! My other toy is blocking the rest of the garage (just got it out of storage) so I have to wait until I can pull it out to work on the GTO.

View attachment 107954


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View attachment 107978


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

OK, been busy... Two problems/questions.

1. Installed Body and Core Support bushings. Car rides great now and almost no noise/rattles etc. PROBLEM is I come to find the nose piece has been welded to the frame so now it does not align with the fenders and rubs badly. Apparently it was welded in place to align with the core support that had no lower bushings... Good thing - body sits flat now. *Is the the way it's supposed to be mounted?
*

2. Could not get to the mounts at the driver and passengers feet... the nuts on top just spin. *Is there a way to do this WITH OUT taking off the fenders/fender liner?*

Apparently the front end/core support was "free floating" it was not attached to the frame!!!!!!!!!

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - next week?
2. Cigar lighter swap DONE - need to swap out the heater/coil this one doesn't work.
3. Center console - smell, light and cover *DONE* 
4. Water pump swap (install fresh rebuild for "leaking" pump).* DONE*
5. Mount driver side courtesy light
6. Fix Horn *DONE*
7. Blower fuse *DONE*
8. License plate light
9. Rear marker light seals
10. Tail light seals - Adjust bumper (not aligned) *DONE*
11. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
12. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
13. Clean and detail tires
14. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
15. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
16. Adjust brake push-rod on booster/verify pedal travel/level *DONE*
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
19. Move oil pressure gauge source to top of engine under distributor/ reinstall OE oil pressure sender (ordered and came in) Need to get fittings for top of engine.
20. Polish/Wax - found a detail shop specializing in black paint 'restoration'.
21. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
22. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
23. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
24. Install OE heater control knobs.
25. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
26. Install Body mounts *almost DONE*
27. Rebuild PS pump (seals) *DONE*
28. Install rear fender stainless trim *DONE*


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - next week?
2. Cigar lighter swap - need to swap out the heater/coil this one doesn't work.
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. Rear marker light seals
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Clean and detail tires
9. Paint last JA wheel - swap with last drum wheel
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
12. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
13. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
14. Install OE heater control knobs.
15. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
19. Polish/Wax - TechShine/remove old wax


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dan, if the nuts you speak of are those found at the firewall/engine bay body mount, they are square nuts. I simply used the correct sized open end wrench to get in there. Your wrench will be at an angle to get in on them and then you may need a helper to either hold the wrench on the nut or turn the bolt from below. Shoot them with some WD-40 or other penetrating oil before taking them off. 

Easier with the fender off as that was how I did mine and I could get right at them, but you should be able to get at them with the fender on.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Those are them, thanks for the info PontiacJim.



PontiacJim said:


> Dan, if the nuts you speak of are those found at the firewall/engine bay body mount, they are square nuts. I simply used the correct sized open end wrench to get in there. Your wrench will be at an angle to get in on them and then you may need a helper to either hold the wrench on the nut or turn the bolt from below. Shoot them with some WD-40 or other penetrating oil before taking them off.
> 
> Easier with the fender off as that was how I did mine and I could get right at them, but you should be able to get at them with the fender on.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

WHATCH YOUR NUTS!!!!

Shoddy workmanship almost cost me my car AND possibly my life!!! I usually double check when someone does any work on my cars especially the lug nuts, well I trusted the shop that worked on my rear end rebuild and I didn't check the lug nuts.

At 90MPH I heard a noise at the back of the car... I let off the gas... noise went away... hit the gas again car shuddered and jerked right.... now I knew something was night right. I pulled off and the left rear wheel came off!!! LUCKILY the wheel stayed on as the brake drum rolled along the inside the wheel until I could get stopped. I lost 5 original lug nuts and 4 studs (damaged). Luckily there was no body or other damage. I checked the right hand rear nuts, they were ALL set to about 30flbs!!!

No one else will ever touch my cars again!

While I'm at it, and additional rant... when working on my car I found missing tail light stud gaskets (why my trunk was getting wet), broken tail light housings (someone snapped off the "ears") more water, random holes drilled in the back trunk wall under the bumper, the bumper off center because a bracket for the exhaust was welded in the wrong place forcing the bumper to be at least 3/4 of an inch off toward the passenger side, missing body bushings... basically I'm surprised I'm still surprised by this amount of *crap* I'm finding - not the car I was led to believe I was buying.

Good thing I like this car, it "helps" sooth the pain in my rectum.

PS also found out the brand new brake booster won't allow more than 7lbs of vacuum and the transmission is leaking like a sieve, again!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

To do list:
1. Trans tail shaft leak - next week
2. Cigar lighter swap - need to swap out the heater/coil this one doesn't work.
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. Rear marker light seals
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Clean and detail tires
9. Paint last JA wheel - swap with damaged wheel - FIND a couple replacements (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
12. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
13. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
14. Install OE heater control knobs.
15. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise at 50-80
19. Polish/Wax - TechShine/remove old wax
20. REPLACE ALL Wheel studs and lug nuts.
21. Replace brake booster??


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got the damaged wheel swapped out (painted, mounted balanced)... See shots below, notice how the brake drum "rode in" the wheel. Pics don't do the depth of the damage enough credit - about an 1/8th of an inch in some places! Must have been deepest when the wheel initially came off as the drum rode along the back of the wheel.

Holes were augured out a just a bit and MIGHT be fine but at the speeds I drive this thing I'm not taking a chance. Lugs and lug nuts are next...

View attachment 112121


View attachment 112129


View attachment 112137





dan woodland said:


> To do list:
> 1. Trans tail shaft leak *DONE*
> 2. Cigar lighter swap - need to swap out the heater/coil this one doesn't work.
> 3. Mount driver side courtesy light
> ...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Replaced studs on Left rear... Threads were "ok" but I'm not going to chance it, I'm sure the studs were stressed beyond what they are designed for. Notice the damage on the inside of the drum. Had to chase a thread on one lug but all is good with the right tools.

A little bit larger pics...

View attachment 112145


View attachment 112153


View attachment 112161


View attachment 112169


The more I find the more luck I feel. >


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got Cigar lighter socket swapped out...

1. Fix turn signal - now it's not canceling after turning left. *NEW*
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. Rear marker light seals
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Clean and detail tires
9. FIND a couple replacements (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
12. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
13. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
14. Install OE heater control knobs.
15. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise 
19. Polish/Wax - TechShine/remove old wax
20. REPLACE Rest of Wheel studs and lug nuts.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Swapped out rest of rear lugs, front lug nuts and rear marker light seals... Cleaned and detailed tires as well.


1. Fix turn signal - now it's not canceling after turning left. *NEW*
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. REPLACE front wheel studs.
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Polish/Wax - TechShine/remove old wax
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
12. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - REDO
13. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
14. Install OE heater control knobs.
15. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks for the updates, Dan. This is an amazing journey you're on.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea, that's a good description of it. 



1968gto421 said:


> Thanks for the updates, Dan. This is an amazing journey you're on.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

New wheel stencil kit arrived today, now I just need to find a couple wheels. :wink3:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ah... a nice loud 2 hour ride through our metro parks. These cars were not built to go-round through winding roads or corners at speed but they are a lot of fun to drive at "higher" low speeds whipping left and right with sticky tires.Toss in a few burnouts at intersections and a good time was had by all. >

This is the kind of detail I've been wanting to fix on this car sinceI bought it FIVE YEARS ago! Really nice rear fender trim I found in British Columbia, CA of all places.

View attachment 112193


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

> Did a burnout in front of a Park Ranger yesterday, in the park, and he never flinched. I didn't see him until it was too late.  > I got away with that one! Always wanted to do a burnout in a tunnel and got to do that as well. GOTTA LOVE A PONTIAC 400 UNLEASHED!:nerd:

Tires are holding up, so far, and two of the the new lug nuts only needed a 1/4 turn to tighten after 3 hours of driving.

Not my car but "I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning"!

View attachment 112289


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got the oil pressure gauge oil leak fixed, finally. I had to take apart the unit to readjust the position and retighten the fittings. 

I also got the rear wing pads replaced. Used goo gone and rubbing alcohol for clean off the old glue. A little contact cement and 15 minutes - the install was done... 

View attachment 112769


I also tried to install the trunk light, my car had one but was lost at some point. Unfortunately, the wire someone spliced into the harness was not correct (bottom pic)- it causes a short because it's actually the tail light common wire. Laziness or stupidity I guess... Probably why there is no trunk light, they didn't want to figure out what was supposed to be. I'll need to splice into the correct wire, it's orange according to the wiring diagram (top pic). I'll test/install it tomorrow...

View attachment 112777


View attachment 112785


View attachment 112793


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Also tried to install the missing upper fender bolt on the passenger side... now I know whey it's missing. The fender hole doesn't line up without having to move the door and adjust the nose etc etc and I think the threads are jacked up... there is not enough room, just, to chase the threads without removing the door... a chore for another day when I have a paint job done at some point.

Hit 69,000 miles today... did a brake check today from 70MPH on an smooth empty country road. I'm surprised how straight she broke. Scared the crap out of the neighbors I'm sure. >

What not to do with your GOAT!!

View attachment 112801


I wonder if they survived.


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

Here is a write up on what has become the most infamous GTO Judge picture on the internet

https://bangshift.com/general-news/sudden-impact-1969-gto-judge-loses-fight-with-pole/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Interesting... I'd love to know what the person felt at the moment of impact.



soberjoe said:


> Here is a write up on what has become the most infamous GTO Judge picture on the internet
> 
> https://bangshift.com/general-news/sudden-impact-1969-gto-judge-loses-fight-with-pole/
> 
> ...


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

I’ll bet it was something very close to “oh no, not my Judge! . . . and jesus my legs hurt”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Installed the trunk light and fixed a couple other wiring issues in the back-end today. Took longer than expected because of the extra work. Cool how it works. I lucked out, I had an extra orange wire kit for the glove box - it was in the stash of parts I received from a former GTO restorer!

View attachment 112849


View attachment 112857


I also washed and wax her today... AMAZING!! I used TechShine which is a paint bonding polymer applied when the car is wet. The shine is amazing. I didn't finsh until late so I can't wait until I see it in the sun tomorrow.

It saves so much time!! As fast as you can wipe the car down you are done waxing!!

View attachment 112865


Tomorrow, the license plate light... found it extremely loose today while climbing in and out of the trunk.

Oh and this is another of one of those details I've been wanting to fix for some time!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

soberjoe said:


> I’ll bet it was something very close to “oh no, not my Judge! . . . and jesus my legs hurt”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was thinking something like "Oh shi!", then he did.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Didn't fix the license plate light... need to source some screws and a lamp. Luckily I have a new OE lens in my stash from the guy who used to restore cars.

TechShine didn't hide all the paint swirls but it sure do look nice and shiny!! It works really well on cars with better paint.

How the trunk light works...

Off

View attachment 113209


On - the lever rides on the trunk hinge arm. when in the up position the copper "spring" is pressed against the lamp closing the circuit - after tapping into the orange wire in the trunk harness.

View attachment 113201


Lamp is held in by the plastic housing - the lamp posts fit in a small groove and pressure is exerted on the lamp by the bottom contact.

View attachment 113217


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Arg... last 5 days on and off and next three!

View attachment 113537


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## Cafr119 (Dec 9, 2017)

I hear ya Dan, I’m in central Michigan and it seems this spring has been very rainy, we are having issues with ticks, and our state bird, the mosquito, lol.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Finally some sun! I felt like I was grounded with no access to my toys. :grin2:



Cafr119 said:


> I hear ya Dan, I’m in central Michigan and it seems this spring has been very rainy, we are having issues with ticks, and our state bird, the mosquito, lol.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Took her out for a run today, had some fun and checked all the lug nuts. Only a couple on each side turned very little (probably me pushing harder on a couple) - good news.

My list:

1. Fix turn signal - *Works now... odd because I didn't do anything!*
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. REPLACE front wheel studs. *DONE*
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Polish/Wax - TechShine/remove old wax *DONE*
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
12. Paint lines/logo on steering wheel - *DONE*
13. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
14. Install OE heater control knobs.
15. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
17. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
18. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise


Still have not located a radio that isn't made of gold or wheels, hopefully I can get out of on-call the weekend of Pontiac Nationals and find some at the swap.

View attachment 113729


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## Cafr119 (Dec 9, 2017)

Looking very nice Dan, I really like that year of the GTOs with the diamond shaped rear quarter maker light.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, me as well.



Cafr119 said:


> Looking very nice Dan, I really like that year of the GTOs with the diamond shaped rear quarter maker light.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The list:

1. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install new wing pads, possibly adjust mounting height.
12. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
13. Install OE heater control knobs.
14. Check spark plugs
15. Check/adjust timing/carb.

About time the list is getting shorter not longer!!!

Some time ago when I was setting the timing on my rebuilt engine I read or was told at some point I'll need to adjust the timing after it's broken in. I have about 1500 miles on it now. At very heavy throttle, not WOT, I'm getting a slight knock or "cackle" - I've actually never had it WOT, I'm a bit gun shy of blowing up the new . I assume I will be retarding the timing to compensate for the "wear" of the break in period??

Will I also be needing to adjust the carb and mixture? 

I have to say it seems as though the engine/exhaust has gotten louder over the last month or so. Is this a by-product of the break in period ending or is there something else I should be looking at?

I have not checked the spark plugs lately, that's on my list to do this weekend.

Thanks in advance for any help. 

Dan

View attachment 113745


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Haven't had much time for much but an oil change... Opened up my first K&N filter. Ninety percent of the filter weight is in the mount - it's substantial compared to others. Found no metallic material in the filter but did find these 4 little metallic bits in the oil. I also found "some" non-metallic bits in the oil. I'm hoping this is "normal".

View attachment 113883


View attachment 113885


Still need to look at plugs, timing etc.

In the meantime... anyone have anything on this? Thanks in advance.

_Some time ago when I was setting the timing on my rebuilt engine I read or was told at some point I'll need to adjust the timing after it's broken in. I have about 1500 miles on it now. At very heavy throttle, not WOT, I'm getting a slight knock or "cackle" - I've actually never really had it WOT, I'm a bit gun shy of blowing up the new engine. I assume I will be retarding the timing to compensate for the "wear" of the break in period??

Will I also be needing to adjust the carb and mixture? 

I have to say it seems as though the engine/exhaust has gotten louder over the last month or so. Is this a by-product of the break in period ending or is there something else I should be looking at?

I have not checked the spark plugs lately, that's on my list to do this weekend.

Thanks in advance for any help._


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

The list:

1. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light
5. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease.
11. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
12. Install OE heater control knobs.
13. Check spark plugs
14. Check/adjust timing/carb.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Plugs (perfect) - Check
Reset timing - Check
WOT test - Check
No Cackling - Chek
Fixed filler piece mounting - Check

She goes like a bat out of hell now! Need to figure out why she lays down going into high gear while WOTing.

Some progress...

The list:

1. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light - found screws need a lamp...
5. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease. (Tomorrow)
11. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
12. Install OE heater control knobs.
13. Check spark plugs *(DONE)*
14. Check/adjust timing/carb. *(DONE)*
15. Rebalance wheels/tires (Tomorrow)
16. Rotate tires if JC wheel works with front disk brakes. (Tomorrow)


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Dan, Noticed the date... 

Happy belated 5th Anniversary with the '69!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Have you checked out your fuel pressure and fuel pump? If it's not happening until you get into high gear, perhaps it's draining the fuel bowl in the carb. If you're running a QJet and the "good" needle/seat from Cliff, you can usually handle close to 7 psi without flooding. 

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Pinion head said:


> Dan, Noticed the date...
> 
> Happy belated 5th Anniversary with the '69!


Thanks, been a long expensive 5 years. I'm just now having fun with it. Bills are getting much smaller now - $13 for brake parts today. 



BearGFR said:


> Have you checked out your fuel pressure and fuel pump? If it's not happening until you get into high gear, perhaps it's draining the fuel bowl in the carb. If you're running a QJet and the "good" needle/seat from Cliff, you can usually handle close to 7 psi without flooding.
> 
> Bear


I'm running a QJet with a standard rebuild kit and what I assume are the original jets. It's happening when I should be coming out of 'passing gear'.

I assume by 'Cliff's' jets you are referring to a certain size?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> ...
> I assume by 'Cliff's' jets you are referring to a certain size?


No sir, I'm not talking about jets, I'm talking about the needle and seat. Not all of them are capable of handling 7psi of fuel pressure without begin forced off the seat and allowing the carb to flood. The ones he sells are as long as the float is also in good shape and not leaking.


Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Yep, you did say needle/seat... sorry about that. 



BearGFR said:


> No sir, I'm not talking about jets, I'm talking about the needle and seat. Not all of them are capable of handling 7psi of fuel pressure without begin forced off the seat and allowing the carb to flood. The ones he sells are as long as the float is also in good shape and not leaking.
> 
> 
> Bear


I think I have a "stock" fuel pump which should be 5-6 psi. Float is brand new, installed when I rebuilt the carb a few years ago. I do have a slightly bigger cam in this engine, could that be causing the issue? I wondered if it might be low vacuum in that situation so the modulator won't function.

As always I appreciate the help Bear.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got a lot done today...

Tires balanced and cleaned and brightened the white letters with and old fashion brillo-pad. She isn't scary to drive at 80 any more. 

Found one of my 'rattles". Having to remove the center caps I found two of them loose or rattling. I extended the metal 'springs' on the backside of the mount and used some locktite to secure the screws.

Started some exterior detailing...

View attachment 114035


View attachment 114037


and replaced all the front disc brake hardware and grommets. Don't use disc brake "lube" on the rubber grommets it will become ver sticky and destroy the grommet then promote wear and cause other damage.

These were rubber grommets...

View attachment 114043


they become sticky and gum up the works. Brakes work much nicer now.

View attachment 114039


View attachment 114041


I used silicone based grease this time.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Took her out today... man this thing goes... High school health class teacher said there is good and bad stress... so applying that to these days... bad stress, losing your job... good stress, driving as fast as you can while avoiding the cops!

The list:

1. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise
2. Replace brake booster??
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. License plate light - found screws need a lamp...
5. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare)
10. Dismantle and reassemble brakes using Ceramic-silicone grease. *(Done)*
11. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get.
12. Install OE heater control knobs.
13. Clean wheels/letters/tires *(Done)*
14. Rebalance wheels/tires *(Done)*
15. Rotate tires if JC wheel works with front disk brakes. *( Can't until I find new wheel)*

View attachment 114045


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

When you say it 'hestitates' shifting into high when you've got your foot in it... Can you describe what that hesitation is like? Is it a stumble almost like the engine shuts off for an instant? A "mushy" shift in the transmission? Something else?

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm at WOT car is pulling growling pulling growling pulling I'm waiting for it to shift into high gear it stops pulling and 'lays down' but the engine just keeps winding up and no shift into high from 'passing gear' until I let off the gas a touch and get back into it but not at WOT then it shifts into high gear.

The engine never quits or dies, it feels/sounds like the engine is no longer attached to the trans.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Back to the transmission shop... found another leak and charred oil on the pan. F!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> I'm at WOT car is pulling growling pulling growling pulling I'm waiting for it to shift into high gear it stops pulling and 'lays down' but the engine just keeps winding up and no shift into high from 'passing gear' until I let off the gas a touch and get back into it but not at WOT then it shifts into high gear.
> 
> The engine never quits or dies, it feels/sounds like the engine is no longer attached to the trans.


Ut oh.... those symptoms combined with burnt fluid sounds like a rolled intermediate sprag clutch. If that's the case, the trans is cooked.

Bear


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## cij911 (Oct 25, 2017)

Dan - I have a ton of the 3M caulk (for the heater box) if you want me to send you some.....Just PM me your address.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Ut oh.... those symptoms combined with burnt fluid sounds like a rolled intermediate sprag clutch. If that's the case, the trans is cooked.
> 
> Bear


Agreed. It goes in Monday after work.

Anyone want a GTO?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, I appreciate that! I replied to your PM.

Dan



cij911 said:


> Dan - I have a ton of the 3M caulk (for the heater box) if you want me to send you some.....Just PM me your address.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:frown3:

Still in the shop...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise
2. Rotate tires if JC wheel works with front disk brakes. ( Can't until I find new wheel)
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare) (still looking)
10. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

:|

Still in the shop... I guess warranty repairs get addressed AFTER current paying customers. This is the 6th time it's been back to this shop... At some point I'll go elsewhere and pay for another trans repair but for now I'm going to make them fix it until it's fixed.


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## Sixty7GTO (May 4, 2017)

Dan, get the brakes squared away first. Clean up the parts as you have done and to keep the rust at bay I would give the parts a mist coat of self-etching primer and then just a mist of flat black. I would not bother with the drums unless you use a very high heat flat black like for painting headers. I'd replace the springs and hold down clips just because the old ones are on the borderline of breaking. I'd lube all the places that are supposed to be lubed with white lube or brake lube. You kind of want to do this once. I'd replace the hard lines with stainless. The hold-off valve at the master looks like it might have been replaced. If the proportioning valve on the frame wasn't bolted, chances are that someone has messed with it. The important thing, there is water in the system. I would remove all components, clean everything with brake clean and get rid of every trace of old brake fluid. That valve that mounted to the frame< I believe is also the trip valve if a line brakes and prevents you from losing
all your brake fluid. When you were pumping the brakes for your dad while he was bleeding the brakes those kinds of valves weren't used. There is a tool you insert to stop the valve from tripping while you're bleeding the brakes the old fashion way. If the valve was tripped when you got the car and the brakes were hard and not stopping the car effectually, you might have been operating on just fronts or backs. If there is water in the system you may as well check the front calipers. Water raises hell with the disk in the calipers. Again, disassemble and clean and put a new set of seals and rubbers in. I do not use brake fluid marked DOT-3, Always at lease DOT-4. I've heard DOT-3 and below attracts moisture and we all know what that does to the insides of brake components.
Good luck with you're dream car, it looks like a good one. Can't give you any advice on the color, I'm faced with the same decision with my 67. I'm not much of a fan of the Signet Gold.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks, didn't know that about the brake distribution block/valve.



Sixty7GTO said:


> Dan, get the brakes squared away first. Clean up the parts as you have done and to keep the rust at bay I would give the parts a mist coat of self-etching primer and then just a mist of flat black. I would not bother with the drums unless you use a very high heat flat black like for painting headers. I'd replace the springs and hold down clips just because the old ones are on the borderline of breaking. I'd lube all the places that are supposed to be lubed with white lube or brake lube. You kind of want to do this once. I'd replace the hard lines with stainless. The hold-off valve at the master looks like it might have been replaced. If the proportioning valve on the frame wasn't bolted, chances are that someone has messed with it. The important thing, there is water in the system. I would remove all components, clean everything with brake clean and get rid of every trace of old brake fluid. That valve that mounted to the frame< I believe is also the trip valve if a line brakes and prevents you from losing
> all your brake fluid. When you were pumping the brakes for your dad while he was bleeding the brakes those kinds of valves weren't used. There is a tool you insert to stop the valve from tripping while you're bleeding the brakes the old fashion way. If the valve was tripped when you got the car and the brakes were hard and not stopping the car effectually, you might have been operating on just fronts or backs. If there is water in the system you may as well check the front calipers. Water raises hell with the disk in the calipers. Again, disassemble and clean and put a new set of seals and rubbers in. I do not use brake fluid marked DOT-3, Always at lease DOT-4. I've heard DOT-3 and below attracts moisture and we all know what that does to the insides of brake components.
> Good luck with you're dream car, it looks like a good one. Can't give you any advice on the color, I'm faced with the same decision with my 67. I'm not much of a fan of the Signet Gold.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Back in the saddle again! 

Got her back this week. Amazing how a little transmission leak repair "fixed" my shifting issues as well. I was told the gasket was crushed/cracked by the tech when installed causing the leak. I'm assuming the leak was enough to affect the shifting points (pressure)...

It worked really well tonight/this weekend and shifted into high correctly when under duress. :wink3: Which reminds me I need to replace all the rear control arm bushings in the very near term - my new number 1.

Mrs. Dan even requested me to do more burnouts under a highway overpass. :surprise:

1. Replace rear control arm bushings
2. Rotate wheels/tires. (Can't until I find new wheel(s))
3. Mount driver side courtesy light
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Locate and install OE AM/FM radio
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolts
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash fixes...
9. FIND a couple replacement wheels (and a spare) (still looking)
10. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
11. Lube/replace speedo cable - making noise


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Definition of:

a·dren·al·ine
əˈdren(ə)lən
object

: GTO at 120 >


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Gotta love a nice rear end. :laugh2:

View attachment 114517


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

It was Christmas in August today! 

Day started with a call from a workmate who volunteered to cover my on-call stint today so I could hit the Pontiac Nationals - they called at 6 and I left by ~7. 

It got even better after I found a deal on an AM/FM Stereo radio complete with nice nobs and face, which works, and a set of very nice disk brake wheels. I paid more than I wanted for the wheels but I have not found any so far so a set of four in great shape made the choice easy - I found powder coated wheels for over twice as much locally but I'm not spending over $800 on wheels!

View attachment 114549

View attachment 114551


Only thing I couldn't find was the A/C compressor part I need - could have used that on the way home today in the 90 degree temps. 

View attachment 114553


View attachment 114555


On a watch your backside note: I recently found out one of the wheels I have on the car now is 'out of round' so I get a nice vibration at high speeds. I knew to check for lugs seats, damage and pitting but not that. Now I have 8 wheels to choose the best 5 out of. Two of those I know are bad so hopefully all the 'new' ones are spot on - they look correct to the naked eye and matched against each other.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Forgot to mention: I had the only black GTO of any year there (that I saw). People seemed to like it quite a bit. A far cry from what I've experienced at local "cruise-ins" which make me NOT attend those as a participant. Didn't even get to park at the last one I tried to participate in before the divisive comments started - that one was regarding the Judge strip on a non-Judge/Carousel Red car.

I also learned how the '69 nose/front bumper are supposed to be attached so I know I have a real problem which most likely needs to be addressed by a body shop - Now I need to find one I can trust to do it right etc.

View attachment 114557


P.S. Friends '81 Vette I get to work on as well is in the background.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Forgot to mention: I had the only black GTO of any year there (that I saw). People seemed to like it quite a bit. A far cry from what I've experienced at local "cruise-ins" which make me NOT attend those as a participant. Didn't even get to park at the last one I tried to participate in before the divisive comments started - that one was regarding the Judge strip on a non-Judge/Carousel Red car.
> 
> I also learned how the '69 nose/front bumper are supposed to be attached so I know I have a real problem which most likely needs to be addressed by a body shop - Now I need to find one I can trust to do it right etc.
> 
> ...


You must have missed the black '64 post car with poverty hubcaps and the black '72 that was for sale near the bleachers (think it was a GTO, but could have been a Lemans with GTO nose - guy had custom white side stripes with "GTO" in the stripe. Also a couple drag racing in black.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> You must have missed the black '64 post car with poverty hubcaps and the black '72 that was for sale near the bleachers (think it was a GTO, but could have been a Lemans with GTO nose - guy had custom white side stripes with "GTO" in the stripe. Also a couple drag racing in black.


I was suffering from a bit of... ok a lot of tunnel vision, I had one day to try finding parts - had to go back on-call last night after the event. I stopped part hunting to watch about 10 minutes of racing and didn't make much of an effort at looking "through" all the show and sale cars so I am sure I missed them.  

I had to make 4 or 5 trips through the swap meet to find everything, some vendors were not "open" during my first, second or even third time making the rounds or they left someone in charge who could not make a decision on a sale so I had to go back several times.

This was my firs time brining a car to participate, I will probably take her again next year. Hopefully work doesn't get in the way again.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Dropped off wheels from Pontiac Nationals to get blasted - paint was chipping off... Had them balance tested w/o tires, one was bad so the deal is not a deal any longer. Will paint and get mounted when ready (Re-test and use best 4 of 7 wheels - best of rest for a spare). 

Also found a late '68 rear end with all new bits including 3.55 gears and posi (I currently have an open rear - sounds dirty) >, may buy that and install with reworked brakes and replace the control arm bushings while it's disassembled - my current rear leaks at the yoke and tubes and cost of full repair/labor and new posi unit would be the same. I'll store the current unit for future owner if that situation ever comes up.

1. Replace rear control arm bushings (may do with new posi rear).
2. Rotate wheels/tires. (Can't until I find new wheel(s))
3. Re-Test and remount tires after painting new wheels
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Mount driver side courtesy light
10. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
11. Install new rear end if bought/rework brakes.

View attachment 115065


View attachment 115067


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

People suck!

Guy I bought wheels from bondoed the hell out of them! Sand blasting reveals all!!!

I hope he doesn't sleep well at night and he's riddled with issues for all his days.


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## Cafr119 (Dec 9, 2017)

Wow, that freakin sucks Dan, I tell ya I can not stand how some people screw the hell out of people when selling items, I agree I hope these people can’t sleep as well, hope the ringing in their ears keep them up !! Sorry to hear that Dan


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## Cafr119 (Dec 9, 2017)

Wow, that freakin sucks Dan, I tell ya I can not stand how some people screw the hell out of people when selling items, I agree I hope these people can’t sleep as well, hope the ringing in their ears keep them up !! Sorry to hear that Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Said screw it... dropped the rear end, dropped off to get a posi unit installed (keeping the 3.23 gears) and pulled all the control arms. Got 4 of 6 remaining bushings swapped out - one was boogered up by someone but I managed to fix it. Rear end guy will do the ears on the housing for me.

View attachment 115159


View attachment 115167


Of course someone screwed up some bolts... I really need to stop being surprised in what I find...

View attachment 115161


View attachment 115165


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Bushings were really bad! I bet this thing rides really nice after the bushing upgrade!

View attachment 115169


Some were so bad the control arm was hitting the mount.

View attachment 115171


One was so bad the bolt sleeve was fixed at a 30 degree angle to the control arm!

Some bushings were exploding from their sleeves as well.

View attachment 115173


Posi should be done by Monday, maybe Saturday afternoon.

Also found my "vibration" at idle while in gear at the back of the car. The exhaust on right side is bolted directly to the frame with no insulators like the left.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Replace rear control arm bushings (may do with new posi rear). *(DONE and being DONE TODAY!)* Also having Pinion seal looked at. Been leaking since initial rebuild.
2. Rotate wheels/tires. (Can't until I find new wheel(s))
3. Re-Test and remount tires after painting new wheels (Drying now, will see how bad I got screwed on wheels) At least mounting and balancing doesn't cost me anything so I can experiment with the crap wheels I got screwed on... Will have to renew my search and keep in mind people suck.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Mount driver side courtesy light
10. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
11. Paint and reinstall rear end after posi install - rework brakes.
12. Fix muffler mounts (replace isolators).
13. Clean under side rear end area.
14. Replace shock hardware again! Cheap Chinese crap flat and lock washers! May also have been damaged due to way too much movement of rear end (bad bushings).

Example of the cockeyed sleeve...

View attachment 115183


I cut a 2.25 inch galvanized pipe section as a support. I swear EVERY TIME I do a "press" job I need a new adapter. 

View attachment 115185


View attachment 115187


Oh, and I lucked out again finding brand new control arm bolts and nuts in my stock parts boxes (parts a guy gave me!).


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Dan:"Example of the cockeyed sleeve..."

PJ: It is cockeyed because it is worn out. I have seen worse. You just have to be around high mileage/old cars long enough to see more of that. LOL I don't have a press, but I do have torches to convince the bushings to come out. All new bushing are going to make a big difference.

I stay away from the "Chinese" lock washers as they simply flatten and become useless. I have a Tractor Supply just down the road from me where I get all Grade 8 bolts/nuts/washers and they sell it by the pound rather than the piece or lot. :thumbsup:

Swap meets are not always the best place to buy parts as junk is easy enough to pass along and you will never see them again nor they you. On things like heads, blocks, intakes, etc., I would not buy them unless it was so good a deal that if they turned out to be junk, I could deal with the loss - and have. I prefer to buy local on stuff like that with a guarantee in writing by the seller that it passes my machinist's inspection or money back. On rims, there is no way to check them to see if they are bent unless you were to mount it on your car at the show and pull out a dial indicator to check runout. Paint hides a lot, so I lean towards original/weathered and then refurb myself. Lot of unsavory sellers who don't have a conscious, or give you a line that they don't know much about the piece because they bought it off a buddy who was getting rid of a big lot of parts and the buddy only saved stuff that was good. Ya, right.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Dan:"Example of the cockeyed sleeve..."
> 
> PJ: It is cockeyed because it is worn out. I have seen worse. You just have to be around high mileage/old cars long enough to see more of that. LOL I don't have a press, but I do have torches to convince the bushings to come out. All new bushing are going to make a big difference.





PontiacJim said:


> I am looking forward to it.





PontiacJim said:


> I stay away from the "Chinese" lock washers as they simply flatten and become useless. I have a Tractor Supply just down the road from me where I get all Grade 8 bolts/nuts/washers and they sell it by the pound rather than the piece or lot. :thumbsup:


I will look into that! Thanks! I will be buying grade 8 regardless from now on...



PontiacJim said:


> Swap meets are not always the best place to buy parts as junk is easy enough to pass along and you will never see them again nor they you. On things like heads, blocks, intakes, etc., I would not buy them unless it was so good a deal that if they turned out to be junk, I could deal with the loss - and have. I prefer to buy local on stuff like that with a guarantee in writing by the seller that it passes my machinist's inspection or money back. On rims, there is no way to check them to see if they are bent unless you were to mount it on your car at the show and pull out a dial indicator to check runout. Paint hides a lot, so I lean towards original/weathered and then refurb myself. Lot of unsavory sellers who don't have a conscious, or give you a line that they don't know much about the piece because they bought it off a buddy who was getting rid of a big lot of parts and the buddy only saved stuff that was good. Ya, right.


Yea, I hear that... Another lesson learned. Next time I'll buy rusty and restore myself. I have foud out there are rip-off artists in every hobby and industry!!! 

I ever see that Bearded MFr again I will shove these wheels so far up his rectum he will blink and break wind!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Was lucky enough to get a free 69 original dash from a Tempest. Radio was butchered like most dashes but it has some nice detail bits and pieces I can use.

My glovebox wires were always coming out and I wondered how I was going to fix it... well this dash has some little plastic plugs. They are now in my car. 

View attachment 115189


Also an original glove box lock (won't use it as it won't match mine unless I get it rekeyed) as well as nuts, wire holders etc...

View attachment 115191


View attachment 115193


View attachment 115195


View attachment 115197


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

On the way to pick up the posi!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I am really looking forward to this upgrade/return to stock!!

View attachment 115199


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

2.5 ton floor jack - $150
6 ton Jack stands - $30
Opposable thumbs - PRICELSS!!

Rear end is back in... wasn't easy! Ninety-five degrees and 75% humidity didn't help. Definitely not a one man job but I got it done using jack sands - lifting each side one at a time. A jack is definitely not the way to go unless a special "carriage" is used. 

Got the shocks (using Grade 8 hardware), control arms (not final torqued), e-brake and brake lines installed. Tomorrow reassemble the brakes, bleed them and do a final torquing of the control arms bolts after I put her on the lift at ride height then a test drive and inspection per the builders instructions - take a few lefts and rights on short 10 minute test drive then look for leaks etc...

The aforementioned "buttons".

View attachment 115223


View attachment 115225


Bad pic but you get the idea...

View attachment 115227


Someones idea of an exhaust isolator... NOT!

View attachment 115229


Was gonna paint it but the cleanup/degreasing and painting would have taken me a long time. I'll do it in place later - after I make sure there are no leaks (brake or rear end).

View attachment 115231


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks good. You did not mention it, but probably was told this by your builder, you will need to add the "posi" lube along with the gear oil. Most of those posi units with clutches need this UNLESS you have something different or your builder told you not to use it.

Just remember, if the tires break loose or slip under acceleration on wet/slick roads, the rear end of the car typically kicks out to the right. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Looks good. You did not mention it, but probably was told this by your builder, you will need to add the "posi" lube along with the gear oil. Most of those posi units with clutches need this UNLESS you have something different or your builder told you not to use it.
> 
> Just remember, if the tires break loose or slip under acceleration on wet/slick roads, the rear end of the car typically kicks out to the right. :thumbsup:


I'm looking forward to that kick-out! :wink3: Thanks for the heads up. I see posi kick-out burnout marks all over town. I'm looking forward to adding more.

Yes, the additive came with the unit and was added to the oil. 

View attachment 115257


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Rework brakes after posi install.
2. Rotate wheels/tires. 
3. Re-Test and remount tires after painting new wheels (Drying now, will see how bad I got screwed on wheels) At least mounting and balancing doesn't cost me anything so I can experiment with the crap wheels I got screwed on... Will have to renew my search and keep in mind people suck.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Mount driver side courtesy light
10. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Rear end snubbers came in today (axel and pinion) and I picked up the ONE good wheel from the shop (had tire mounted and balanced)... I can rotate all four tires now as I have all disk brake wheels now.

Work has gotten in the way of finishing the rear end install so tomorrow I will get it done and snubbers installed... hopefully it won't be raining for a week like they say - remnants of tropical storm gordon will be here tomorrow evening.

Manual says to set her on the ground for the final torque on control arm bolts so I'll have to setup the lift to do that...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Didn't get to car today... maybe tomorrow... here are those buttons I mentioned.

View attachment 115309


View attachment 115313


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Rework brakes after posi install.
2. Rotate wheels/tires. 
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Mount driver side courtesy light

View attachment 115315


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got the rear end/posi in, brakes rebuilt and bled - used a vacuum pump. They work better now, must have been air in the lines.

It won't stop raining (damned hurricane) so I could not test the posi outside... I laid some water on the garage floor > and tested the posi and brakes... it works as expected.

Hopefully tomorrow I can re-torque the control arm pivot bolts/nuts and take her for a test drive/check for leaks etc.

1. Test posi/check for leaks at brake lines, and posi/rearend.
2. Rotate wheels/tires. 
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Mount driver side courtesy light

View attachment 115381


Runnin outta sunny days possibilities! :frown3:

I'm gettin antsy to lay some rubber!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Pivot bolts torqued, checked for brake leaks, took a very short ride, did a controlled test in the driveway... rained, it has been raining here for nearly a week. :frown3: And they are calling for more!!!

View attachment 115393


On the test drive the car is so tight it feels like there is something wrong. :smile3: I can feel every bump through the seat now, not making a rough ride but more like road "input" through the seat. There is no side to side or twisting motion when I punch the gas... amazing how much those small rubber bushings improve ride and handling.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Mount driver side courtesy light
2. Rotate wheels/tires. X
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...

Anyone have dimensions on the spacer for the front dash speaker? Or does a 69 not need it? Picture is from a 72. Thanks.

View attachment 115395


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

A few things I thought of in the seconds following my first official posi enabled burnouts... while using a quarter tank of gas on highway launches and burnouts. 

1. I get it, now I understand why guys are willing to burn up $150 tires. *IT'S FREAKIN AWESOME!!!!*
2. Best money I spent on this project yet! Even better than the engine.
3. I always felt "let down" after the engine rebuild. I didn't feel I could use the power I thought I should have... NOW I HAVE IT!
4. Man does this thing launch now! All the power is going to the road now not in flexing the frame!
5. I can't believe how much better it rides with the new bushings. There is virtually NO flex! This is amazing!
6. I'm going to need more tires before I park this thing for winter. Where can I get these things for the least dough possible since I'm going to melt as many as I can.
7. What takes melted rubber of stainless?
8. Serpentine!!! (In-laws movie reference)
9. I should have measured the tread depth before I did this.
10. *HOLY SH*.... This is a blast!!!!
11. Next time I need to film this with my camera glasses!!
12. I should have brought a tape measure!!!
13. Good thing I have new rear brake shoes in-stock.
14. Next time I need to find a bigger place with more run-off room.
15. What time is sunrise tomorrow?
16. My Spidy sense is tingling, I better boogie.... moments later I passed four police cars and bikes - one obviously going to where I just left.

View attachment 115409


View attachment 115411


Tomorrow, rotate what's left of the rear tires. >>>>


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*trans leak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

Aw no!!!
Sunufa 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*REAR END leak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

Jeebus man!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Not sure who I offended but whoever it was and whatever I did, SORRY! :frown3:


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

Hey, better to find these now and get them all sorted so that next summer can be care-free cruising man 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

So much for care free cruising... this is the 7th, SEVENTH, trans leak after a rebuild!!!



soberjoe said:


> Hey, better to find these now and get them all sorted so that next summer can be care-free cruising man
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh man, I feel your pain. Mine has been punishing me lately too...

I'm sorry 

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Oh man, I feel your pain. Mine has been punishing me lately too...
> 
> I'm sorry
> 
> Bear


Thanks Bear, just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water... 

Will get back to it shortly... job search, family and weather have taken my time lately. Haven't driven her much in the last month... Off on-call tomorrow so I should be able to get at it tomorrow or Thursday.

Going to re-torque the trans and rear end covers (and rear end fill plug). Hopefully that's all it is. Headlight vacuum canister and driver fender well liner came loose so i'll have to figure that out before the next ride. I know the fender bolts are missing - most of them so I'm sure that is the problem with the fender well liner.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1. Mount driver side courtesy light
2. Rotate wheels/tires. X
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Trans leak
10. rear end leak
11. Vacuum canister loose
12. driver fender liner loose


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Snugged up the drivers fender liner, Snugged up the rear end cover bolts and fill-plug (all were lose). Vacuum canister mounts are shot, will have to figure out something else. May used "regular" bolts for short term, the holes in the fender and vacuum canister have ripped out. The trans is dry. 

Nice side affect of tightening the fender liner the fender now lines up with the nose a bit better and there is no mismatch in the fender and hood seam now... I'll have to address all the sheet metal alignment next year.

Took her out for a short ride tonight... will check fluids/leaks tomorrow... weather and job not cooperating lately so car stuff has taken a 'back seat' to life. :frown2:

1. Mount driver side courtesy light
2. Rotate wheels/tires. X
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Vacuum canister loose

Life before posi!

View attachment 115963


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Took a longer ride the other day, all seemed well (have not checked for leaks yet) but sadly my time in the seat is waning... that cruel bitch winter is on my heals and closing fast.  Winter is fast approaching here with almost daily rain and cold temps.

Rained hard today and she got caught in it while I needed the garage so I washed and waxed her using Tech Shine which has to go on when the car is wet so why not when it's raining? After application you have to rinse it off so again why not when it's already raining? Worked perfectly, she looks great.

I got a lot done this short riding season but still not finished... the list is much shorter so next season should be a lot more drivin than fixin.

1. Vacuum canister loose
2. Mount driver side courtesy light
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...

Time for winter hobbies to take over...  :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well driving season is definitely over now...:frown3:

View attachment 116213


But.... I got a few more licks in the other day in the parts store parking lot. :wink3:

View attachment 116215


View attachment 116217


To date my longest and curviest strips... >

Now it's time to do winter hobbies and work on things like the radio and interior...


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

dan woodland said:


> Well driving season is definitely over now...:frown3:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok I have to ask: are those licks the result of a brake stand? ‘Cause my ‘69 just will not leave anything more than about 25 feet of rubber on a straight to-the-mat launch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Weeelllll yes and no... it depends on the surface at the time - I do have a one year old engine as well. This last set was a foot to the floor on a newly coated parking lot lick. My tires are pretty sticky so on smooth or really rough streets I usually get the same as you from a dead stop foot to the floor tromp. If I'm on a angle all bets are off, my setup loves to break loose on an off canter incline. 

Oh and I can usually keep them going as long I have room.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sleep well my dear... its gonna be a long 6 months.

Before the cover goes on...

View attachment 116263


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## Cafr119 (Dec 9, 2017)

Nice set you have Dan. I’m a neighbor to the north of you here in Michigan, we woke up the other morning to a little white ground cover, sad to see having to put stuff away for this coming winter season. I hope it goes by quick, I’m getting older and can’t stand the cold much anymore.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Gorgeous!

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks guys... it's been along road and I too am growing weary of the winter weather. Trying to talk Mrs. Dan into retiring early then I can take her (and the wife) back south again and leave this winter mess forever!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

dan woodland said:


> Thanks guys... it's been along road and I too am growing weary of the winter weather. Trying to talk Mrs. Dan into retiring early then I can take her (and the wife) back south again and leave this winter mess forever!


Retirement. I HIGHLY recommend it if you can pull it off. I'm loving it - and am staying busier than I was when I was "working".

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

By the way, I really like that ramp system... It's versatile, strong and fairly portable - need two peeps to move it in one piece. It's also very nice to store the car on them (just drive onto them) increasing the airflow below the car and keeping it away from crap splashing off the Mrs car parked next to it. I also have an industrial strength plastic mat from a heavy duty van on the ground blocking vapors from the concrete rising into the bottom of the car.

Only add-on I had to build was a set of wooden ramps to make up for the raised front end when in the down position - normally you drive on with the front already in the up position.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh believe you me, I'm working hard on it. I planned for next year, which is early, but the Mrs asked me to wait one more year, still early but not when I want to go, so now I'm working on her for retiring now - even earlier!! > I to will be busier retired than I am now working... I have so many things I can and like to do... don't like my profession any longer. So I will live vicariously through lucky bastards like you until my day arrives!!!

Congrats and I can't wait to join the ranks of the voluntarily unemployed!!! 



BearGFR said:


> Retirement. I HIGHLY recommend it if you can pull it off. I'm loving it - and am staying busier than I was when I was "working".
> 
> Bear



P.S. I'll tell her you HIGHLY recommend it, maybe that will push her over the line...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well Bear... she didn't got for it, yet.> i'm still on schedule for early retirement but I'm not going to give up on early early retirement. 

Not an exciting update but here she is in her fully spun cocoon. 


View attachment 116595


Have to stop working on stuff for a while, especially fine motor skill required work, to get my hands fixed... should be able to get back at it in January. Have a good xmas and new years all. 

Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Brrrrrrrrrr*

In the 20s and teens here now making for a long dark winter (2 foot of white stuff last week followed by 2 inches of rain make for a crazy winter)...:frown3: this is fun but not as fun as meltin rubber!! :wink3:

View attachment 117351


List is way shorter/involved this year and I plan to get it completely done by the time I retire!!!!

1. Vacuum canister loose
2. Mount driver side courtesy light
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...

Still she slumbers dreaming of burning tarmac and avoiding the cops...>

View attachment 117353


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Not a bad list!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Would have had it done last summer if I wasn't too busy burnin rubber. :laugh2:



FlambeauHO said:


> Not a bad list!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well.... it's been in the low teens here for a long time but it feel like forever!!!!!

At least the garage is "warm" for sleeping beauty... did some work on the garage walls two summers ago so I can have a fairly comfortable work space in the winter...

View attachment 117869


I'm chompin at the bit... winter is way too long...:crying:

View attachment 117871


View attachment 117873


View attachment 117875


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Single digits the last few days......... GEEZ.:rolleyes2::banghead::eek2::nonod::00/o::icon_bs:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Why I don't even think of taking out a toy until May 1st.... Up to 30 days past St. Patty's Day is fair game here in the frozen upper Midwest.

3 - 4 inches of white crap!!

View attachment 118335


View attachment 118337


View attachment 118339


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> Why I don't even think of taking out a toy until May 1st.... Up to 30 days past St. Patty's Day is fair game here in the frozen upper Midwest.
> 
> 3 - 4 inches of white crap!!
> 
> ...


I don't miss that crap at all and why I move out 29 years ago. About 72 degrees here yesterday and sunny. Today light rain overnight/morning and now overcast, but 60 degrees.

Next move is Florida and I will be working on and driving my car year round. :thumbsup:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> I don't miss that crap at all and why I move out 29 years ago. About 72 degrees here yesterday and sunny. Today light rain overnight/morning and now overcast, but 60 degrees.
> 
> Next move is Florida and I will be working on and driving my car year round. :thumbsup:


Yea, contemplating my future landing spot... planning early retirement end of December. I've got to take this this thing somewhere where it's warmer longer... It would be nice to have the ability to work on and drive cars anytime I'd like. Mrs. Dan gets her daily in the garage for winter so that limits me greatly on taking it over for larger jobs over multiple days.

Not mine but she is purdy...

View attachment 118343


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I'm in FL, you trade the 330 days/ year of driving weather for complete lack of topography and decent roads... ?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

FlambeauHO said:


> I'm in FL, you trade the 330 days/ year of driving weather for complete lack of topography and decent roads... ?


True! But at least your car doesn't shake apart from the nasty roads. Each one of those patches peaks about two inches above the road surface. I have to navigate to areas with good surfaces...

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. 

This is what I have to deal with as soon as I leave my driveway. At times it's like riding a bucking bronco! 

Roads outside my homestead are like navigating mine fields!!!

View attachment 118367


View attachment 118371


That being said when you find a "good" road with topography it is a blast!!!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

FlambeauHO said:


> I'm in FL, you trade the 330 days/ year of driving weather for complete lack of topography and decent roads... ?


Just depends what area you live in. I think the roads are fantastic around where my parents & brother live - New Port Richey & Zepyrhills. Traffic is heavy depending on time which is true of most places.

Now crappy roads? Got a brother in Rhode Island. I grew up in Connecticut and know RI as well. Pot hole city. I hate the lower speed limits with many 2-lane roads only posted at 35 MPH. Not because you could not go faster, but the pot holes act as speed bumps and has to be why they keep speeds low so the state doesn't have to pay for suspension & tire damages.

In the Charlotte area, like Atlanta, you get up on the interstate and the outside fast lane runs at 80 MPH in the 70 MPH zones - and you still get cars blowing right past you. Very few cops it seems and they too run over 70 MPH. I like taking out my '73 Fury with its 2.73 gearing and just letting it run in that left lane at 80-85 keeping up with traffic.

The biggest problem in my area is that slower vehicles do not have to run in the right lane. So you do get grandma out there in the left lane doing 55MPH and there is nothing you can do about it and traffic can sometimes get very backed up because of it or even dangerous as the impatient cut people off trying to "jack-rabbit" lane changes cutting in and out to get around grandma. Seems about 4 out of 5 days going to work I get stuck in traffic crawl due to some "multi-car pile into each other" type accident. If you leave a car length of space between you and the guy in front, people will simply make a hard lane change into that space OR the SOB behind you cannot stand it and will do everything in his/her power to rip past you just to cut right in front of you and make a statement because you are leaving way too much distance (about 10-12 feet) between you and the guy in front. There is NO such thing as courteous driving during morning and afternoon going to and coming from work. Big 4-wheel drive trucks and SUV's are the meanest bullies on the roads around here. I am usually pretty knotted up and fired up by the time I get to work which is a 1 hour's drive to cover 28 miles which most of that is highway roads.

Can't wait to retire and give the whole world a big middle finger. :yesnod:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Nicely put...



PontiacJim said:


> Just depends what area you live in. I think the roads are fantastic around where my parents & brother live - New Port Richey & Zepyrhills. Traffic is heavy depending on time which is true of most places.
> 
> Now crappy roads? Got a brother in Rhode Island. I grew up in Connecticut and know RI as well. Pot hole city. I hate the lower speed limits with many 2-lane roads only posted at 35 MPH. Not because you could not go faster, but the pot holes act as speed bumps and has to be why they keep speeds low so the state doesn't have to pay for suspension & tire damages.
> 
> ...





PontiacJim said:


> Can't wait to retire and give the whole world a big middle finger. :yesnod:


01-01-2020 for me!!!!!!!!!!

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started the unveiling process...

Topping off the battery for a day or two... next I'll blow off the crap accumulated on the cover then... change the oil... check tires etc as the un-winterizing continues.

View attachment 118377


View attachment 118379


Debating on adjusting the valves and reinstalling the oil drippers before I fire her up for the first time this year... Never done that before so I'll need to research how.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Holy crap it's been raining for days!!!! I'm putting on the finishing touches just in case we need it... they are calling for rain for the next week!

View attachment 118621


Spoke to the engine builder... he'll adjust the valves for free and he offered me a job (I'm retiring Jan 1). That might be fun, I'll have to look into it more later.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

FICKLE B...TCH Mother Nature!!!! Cool and 50 this am.... 82 and sunny early afternoon 60 and raining like a broken water main this afternoon and evening!!!! AMAZING!

I was so tempted to pull the cover and fire her up for her maiden 2019 voyage, NOT!

At least it isn't this... 15 degrees and 10 inches of snow!!

View attachment 118641


Soon my pretty...

View attachment 118645


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

View attachment 118713


6 months and and 5 days! That's how long it's been since she was on the road!!! Cocoon removed and Rubber hit the road today... seems like the long winter slumber didn't have long lasting effects. After a short shake down cruise and a quick, operative word, highway run I'll see if things look good underneath later - no obvious drips on the ground over winter.

Man does it seems like for ever! Good to be back on the road!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well that didn't last long... we have got to be getting more rain than the freakin rain forest!!! I've had her out exactly twice since May 5th!!! New term: Global Raining, you heard it here first!

View attachment 119007

View attachment 119007

View attachment 119007

View attachment 119007


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I get bummed every time I can't drive her but then I give her a bath and .... POW, I'm in love again!

View attachment 119221


View attachment 119223


View attachment 119225


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

*Fender attachments*

Hey all,

Which screws bolts do I use for this? I see the trim is attached with small screws on the outside. I see a pan head screw at one point and a bolt in another... Which do I use on the inner most mounting holes? 

Thanks in advance for any help. Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Unfreaking believe-able!!!!

View attachment 119333
:frown3::rant::frown2::crazy::mad2::cuss:

4 inches in last few days...............


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## Stereolab42 (Apr 6, 2018)

dan woodland said:


> Unfreaking believe-able!!!!
> 
> View attachment 119333
> :frown3::rant::frown2::crazy::mad2::cuss:
> ...


We got rained out for most of May here in Cali also... but luckily it's over. 80s as far as I can see and I took my 68 to work today!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Your lips to Mother Nature's ears!!!



Stereolab42 said:


> We got rained out for most of May here in Cali also... but luckily it's over. 80s as far as I can see and I took my 68 to work today!


They are calling for rain every day but two in the next 10... simply amazing.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

21.5 inches of rain... finally 3 consecutive days without rain.................... wait for it............................ the other shoe has dropped... my street will be torn up for the next two months starting on the 13th! :surprise: If normal practices hold true for our street as others in our neighborhood I won't be able to get in or out my drive for 3 or 4 weeks at some point :surprise:, we'll have to park on other neighborhood streets - they are doing drainage, curbs and sewers... summer drive time just got cut drastically - bummer.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

List shrinking list is growing again!!!!

1. Vacuum canister loose - turns out it's the canister on the mount not the mount on the fender. Subsequently the mounting bolt holes are nearly stripped (probably happened when body mounts were done)... battery has to be removed first...
2. Mount driver side courtesy light
3. Install seal on A/C vent at heater box - OE was some really sticky stuff I forgot to get - got from a member here.
4. Install OE heater control knobs.
5. Install OE AM/FM radio/new front speaker
6. install OE missing upper Fender bolt
7. Install OE bucket seat nuts/bolts - passenger side - pulling this to reinstall A/C vents etc.
8. Reinstall center console and A/C vents - removed for dash/radio fixes...
9. Driver side fender rattle (damned streets are shaking her apart).
10. Rebuild carb again with better rebuild kit. She bogs down when hot as I hit the throttle - 90 percent sure it's the accelerator pump seal. Need to get info from Bear again.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Sun = Drive time... been sunny so I've been layin rubber all over town. Only issue, cops are EVERYWHERE!! Can't open her up much... must be some kind of crackdown or budget time... 

Had an Airborne bombing the other day... Tech Shine (applied wet) wax did great. light spray of water or detailing spray and a light wipe clears it up. That Tech Shine is great stuff.

View attachment 119841


View attachment 119843


Crazy how shinny it is... Didn't realize how until I saw the reflection in the pics.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ah, love that smell....

View attachment 119933


Got that out of my system...

Started to work on her again. 

when the interior was installed they missed a broken rear seat frame on the passenger side... I took her in the other day and they fixed it (welded) and fixed the bent seat frame. There was over 1.5 inches of space between the cushions.

View attachment 119935


Also patched an irritating hole in the exhaust - it was just enough to make a puffing sound. Used a bit of JB Weld, great stuff.

View attachment 119937


Some day I'll be done, I don' really believe that...:laugh2:


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Finally got to work on some things... been driving her every time I get the chance. So far this year has been thunderstorms or sun. It's been crazy, July 5th my neighborhood was under water. Luckily we bought on top of the hill not the bottom. three quarters of the neighborhood was under water including some classic cars. Sad.

Headlights have always worked slowly and the vacuum canister had begun to rattle on the fender so I decided to look into it. I found the canister had come loose from the bracket as it was only "pressed" in by some small metal tabs. I figured the tabs would come lose again at some point and I'm not a fan of doing things over and over so I tacked the bracket on the canister and performed a smoke test. The nipple connection is leaking badly and I have another leak on the seem. I'll have to clean it up, address the leaks then repaint.

View attachment 120225


View attachment 120227


View attachment 120229


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Good goin' Dan. It's a lot of trouble, but the FUN is worth it!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

1968gto421 said:


> Good goin' Dan. It's a lot of trouble, but the FUN is worth it!


Agreed, now I just need to figure out how to make my car stealthy so I can avoid the plethora of po-po out to get me.  It's been pretty hard to open her up so far this season.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

5 inches of rain in less than an hour on July 5th as more info is coming in now!!! Half luck half planned we live on the high side of the neighborhood so we only got a gallon or so of water in the basement, friend down the street not so lucky, 6 inches of muck and mud backed up into their basement... some lost cars with water half way up the windows... 24 inch drain pipes were blasting out so much water it eroded the bank on the other side of the drainage ditch. Army corp has to come in to fix it!!

Betty was cool and dry in our garage... why tell you all that... as frustration mounts on the lack of drive time this year... enough news back to the car channel...

Finished the vacuum canister today. Tested with a hand vacuum pump, don't have the smoke tester here, so it's hard to pump that much volume by hand but it holds what I could pump much better now.

Wet and dry pic to show how much difference between the two states. It almost looks blue with the flash... I used Eastwood UnderHood Matte Black... it's very close to OE so it won't stick out being shinny under the fender looking like it was obviously restored.

View attachment 120327


View attachment 120325


I used epoxy to seal the leaks after using a scrubby to clean off the dirt and old paint in those areas.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Reinstalled the vacuum canister... I hammered the mounting holes flat in and effort, hopefully, to make the mounting tighter in the car to eliminate movement/noise. I didn't hammer the mounting tab flat, just the hole that the bolt had "torn" in the tab.

So far so good, it is VERY tight on the fender liner now. The paint job looks nice with it tucked a way in its home.

I spent an hour or so looking for rattles and such. I found the driver side fender bolts on the drivers a-pillar and near the firewall under the hood loose. That stopped an annoying fender rattle on our rough Ohio roads. I also found some smaller bolts and screws loose under the hood. While under there I did some housekeeping - detailing under the hood.

Also found the center caps of my wheels are loosening up again... When I burn off more rubber and need a rebalance I'll rework the center caps.

I tested the brake fluid, it looks pretty good for the amount of use to this point. I'll most likely re-bleed the entire system later this summer.

The search continues for screws/bolts for here... I might quit screwing around with one off fixes and buy a master hardware kit... probably save money in the long run. I have a number of "wrong" hardware bits on my rig.

View attachment 120541


Also found the grommet for the fuel tank vent has fallen apart, inserted a temporary grommet so the tubes don't bang until I get a replacement.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Went to NPD today... ordered 69 GTO with Hideaway headlights body hardware kit... brought me a 68 kit and insisted it was correct because I needed a 68 kit when I clearly saw him right down a 69, which I ordered... then they brought me a 69 w/o hideaway headlights kit, then they brought out the right kit then proceeded to argue about who's fault it was that the boxes were miss-marked and who they were going to blame instead of taking care of the customer who had been quietly waiting for almost 30 minutes for this soap opera to unfold. I left empty handed after I heard them say, "let's just swap stickers".... who knows which kit I would have ended up with, what a joke. I called Ames and had a kit ordered for pick up next weekend at the Pontiac Nationals in less than five minutes!!

Still not missing this... 
View attachment 120543


Lookin forward to some racing in a week... I know, wrong manufacturer but you get the idea!
View attachment 120545


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

*Nats*

Hope to meet you face to face this year Dan. I know you have a lot of followers in this forum. Anyone else going to Norwalk?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Been a while... Been workin on the carb and such so here is the link tying it to my thread.









69 GTO not running well...


Good evening all, I have a 69 GTO with a fresh-ish engine rebuild (approximately 1,500 miles) which is not running very well, especially in gear at stop lights or when reversing (almost stalls). Runs fine when given more gas in all situations. Background: Carb was rebuilt a few years ago...




www.gtoforum.com


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well...... been a while, again... had some issues along the way... turns out I had a number of issues at one time, each of them masking the others.

First car was running like crap... turned out the ignition module, coil, distributor pickup, vacuum leaks and incorrect parts all went wrong around the same time.

First the wrong parts. The new rocker arm studs installed by the engine builder broke when the valves were being adjusted. Turns out some of the studs were bent so when I removed the crimp nuts they broke off the tips and a few threads.

Ordered new studs from Butler performance, based on their recommendation. After a week of running car began to run very badly... one of those studs broke!!!! Before that car was running "well" but only at higher rpms. Found two plugs not firing "all the time" and one rocker arm assembly rattling around under the driver side valve cover. Found out the studs I was sold were for aluminum heads. Next time I pick the parts... hopefully this never has to be done again.

Decided to test the coil and ignition finding out that the coil was not providing hot enough spark and the ignition module was firing intermittently. Coil was developing a VERY weak spark - light orange instead of bright blue. Since I had to pull the distributor I decided to replace the distributor pickup as well. Turns out it was a good call, the magnet was very weak - would not hold as large of bolt as the new pickup.

So... got everything replaced (coil, ignition module and pickup), wanted to upgrade to 7/16th rocker arm studs (on top) but could not find proper length so I bought long and cut them all to length. Installed all studs and set valves to 1/2 turn... oh, and it was my very first experience removing a bolt broken below the surface!!!! Nerve wracking to say the least.

WOW does she run well now!!! It is not fair to my B.F. Goodrich tires!!! I can burn rubber with no brake stand and go as long as I want (until the automatic trans catches up) !!!!

Now the vacuum issue... I had trouble setting the timing with vacuum because it would float up and down up to 3 or 4 degrees. After some investigation it turns out the headlight vacuum system has a bad leak. Not sure where yet but when I eliminated the headlights from the vacuum "loop" in the car the timing would not move when it was being set.

further testing has determined the leak is in the front end, most likely the lines in the nose or possibly a headlight actuator or two... Since they are 80 bucks a piece I'll start by replacing vacuum hoses and connections first. 

I noticed some "double plugs" in the lines... anyone know if those are a problem?

Any advice on the headlight system vacuum issues would be greatly appreciated.

Dan

P.S. running issue thread is above in a previous post which includes the carb issues I was having as well!!!!!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Good job, Dan!

I don't have hideaways, but "I've heard" that the hot tip is to replace the vacuum system with electrics. I think someone makes a kit?

Bear


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

BearGFR said:


> Good job, Dan!
> 
> I don't have hideaways, but "I've heard" that the hot tip is to replace the vacuum system with electrics. I think someone makes a kit?
> 
> Bear



Thanks Bear... Electric conversion is 1200 bucks!!!! I think I'll wait... ha ha I'm a stock kinda guy any way.


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

soberjoe said:


> Ok I have to ask: are those licks the result of a brake stand? ‘Cause my ‘69 just will not leave anything more than about 25 feet of rubber on a straight to-the-mat launch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To answer your question again SoberJoe... after a complete carb rebuild and a valve adjustment I can do a burn out almost as long as I want without a brake stand to get started AND I can do doughnuts as long as I want! The best is going up hill!!!

If I could post a video I would show you. ha ha

This will have to do... Foreground is about a month old and the background is about 10 days old.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Winter hobbies put to rest and back at the car stuff. Hopefully the Pontiac Nationals is on this year... need to smell some burning rubber. 

Late last year I had some vacuum issues with the headlights and brakes being really hard to press. After fixing the engine and getting it running perfectly I lost some vacuum. Found out the headlight switch was a mess so I fixed that... someone else had been in there and didn’t do me any favors. Also found out the vacuum lines from the switch to the headlight actuators were shot. To access them I removed the valance and front bumper (I needed to adjust the bumper after installing new body mounts) so I figured I would bite the bullet and remove the bumper “While I was at it”.

After I took it off I found out why, in part, the car rattles over bumps. There are several loose bolts and even more missing! Also found the bumper brackets were damaged at some point and some cutting on bracket and bumper mounting points was done to “make it fit”.

In my book the entire front bumper assembly is a mess so it’s getting a refresh. I already purchased parts needed, polished the headlight bezels and chrome (Blue Magic is awesome for bright work cleaning/protection/restoration).

Next I’ll disassemble, clean and paint all the parts... I also need to find a body shop to paint the front bumper, had a winter mishap, which skinned the nose. The “non slip” material used on my ramps gave way and the car slid forward so when the Mrs. opened the door....... ouch. Not a big deal in the end as the whole front bumper was beginning to peel any way. 

Will post some pics later... got some cleaning, welding and general maintenance to do on the whole front bumper assembly. MAy 1st is coming fast here in the great Northeast Ohio. 

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

One grille was partially held in place by duct tape!!










This mounting hole was cut to allow enough adjustment... I'll weld this closed to accept the new bumper bracket - the old one is badly damaged and bastardized (holes punched in it and fairly serious bends).










Everything removed... lots of broken things (hooks, clips, etc). Replaced the frame to core support seals.










Polished the headlight bezels but they looked to good compared to the rest of things so a full restore it is...









In case you've never seen behind the "curtain."


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Along with all the other issues I found bent and "unattached" mounting issues I'll need to fix.









Started disassembly... see the aforementioned "nose bleed."










Disassembly is fairly easy... the entire headlight assembly can be removed as one smaller assembly after disconnecting the actuator. Luckily last year I bought a master body bolt, nut and screw, kit so I have 90 percent of the fasteners I need! I suggest taking lots of pics to aide in reassembly.

Use Liquid wrench to ensure no bolts break during disassembly.










A pic from the backside...

More to come...


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

nice to "hear" from you again. I hope your retirement is as fun as it looks. I really appreciate the pictures.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

integrity6987 said:


> nice to "hear" from you again. I hope your retirement is as fun as it looks. I really appreciate the pictures.


Yep, retirement is awesome!!! Rehabbing a 100 year old house, woodworking, working on cars among many other hobbies, it’s a blast!

Glad you like the pics. Hope others can use um for a guide.

Parts arrived damaged but Ames Performance stepped up and replaced them already. Should be here next week... hopefully that’s all I need. 

Bought all the restore supplies today... paint, metal prep, etc etc...

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Supplies...









Headlight subassembly... luckily it comes off in this subassembly. quick removal from bumper. Allows working on it on the work bench.

















Before pic...

















This is why Mat first is the day my moth exits the cocoon... 6 inches plus on April 1st!!!










This almost all the mounting holes on the grilles and headlight doors are broken.



















Anyone know what this part of the Master Body kit is for? These screws match the ones for mounting the headlight door covers to the headlight door. The small metal parts with the holes are especially confusing. 

I do not understand where these fasteners are used and have not found anything like it on the car, which is no surprise.

Thanks in advance, Dan


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

New grille and headlight door cover looks pretty good... not a fan of the mold flashing in the middle of the door cover center rib but better than what I "had". Reused the old Chrome molding, it cleaned up pretty good with Blue Magic.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

It looks nice. I am going to attempt to repair mine. I am working on the 10year plan it should be a winter project. 





Broken ABS Automotive Grille Repair with PlastiFix


1971 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser Grille Restoration




www.polyvance.com


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

_Anyone know what this part of the Master Body kit is for? These screws match the ones for mounting the headlight door covers to the headlight door. The small metal parts with the holes are especially confusing._

Lower valance panel molding and grills. Pg 14-19 in the 69 Service Manual. I think the lower grills were with the hidden headlight option only but don't quote me on that


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

67ventwindow said:


> It looks nice. I am going to attempt to repair mine. I am working on the 10year plan it should be a winter project.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HA Yea, I'm lookin to get it done much sooner than that. Thanks for the link. That is very cool. I'll add that to my retired project list.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

O52 said:


> _Anyone know what this part of the Master Body kit is for? These screws match the ones for mounting the headlight door covers to the headlight door. The small metal parts with the holes are especially confusing._
> 
> Lower valance panel molding and grills. Pg 14-19 in the 69 Service Manual. I think the lower grills were with the hidden headlight option only but don't quote me on that
> 
> View attachment 141651


Oh, those grilles!!! Perfect, thanks a ton O52!! Much appreciated! After the front bumper restore the valance is next!

"Always something with these cars". Ha Ha


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

dan woodland said:


> HA Yea, I'm lookin to get it done much sooner than that. Thanks for the link. That is very cool. I'll add that to my retired project list.


My lack of retirement is the cause for the project creep not to mention the kids. I am doing it YoYo style tear it appart in the fall get it running every year for summer.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

67ventwindow said:


> My lack of retirement is the cause for the project creep not to mention the kids. I am doing it YoYo style tear it appart in the fall get it running every year for summer.


Been there, took me 8 years to save up for my car AFTER making sure family was set! Hang in there and keep at it! You'll get there and when you do you will be, justifiably, very proud of yourself!!! 🏎


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started the restore process... incase there are parts/fasteners I don't have in my kit. Some actually turn out looking like new!!!









This will need to be fixed.










Parts in the tumbler after a good soak in a metal cleaner.










Details hidden by rust appear...










Actuator mount is almost clean... will remove the rest with paint remover.









You can see some restored and others not done yet. Soak um, dry um with a hair drier and tumble...









This is a before and after! 










One of these is not like the other... will ned to be straightened.










Wash, rinse, repeat...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Been a touch busy.... paint paint and more paint!

90 percent of parts cleaned and painted... left the other headlight assembly together so I can use it as a guide to rebuild the second.


















Touched up the paint on the bumper after the mounting point fix.










Notice the "torn" areas where a torch was used to open the mounting holes to allow adjustment of the bumper. They used a badly bent/damaged front bumper bracket. I'm also repairing a small portion of the right frame rail also damaged and butchered by a cutting torch.
















Not bad for a novice... cut a small filler piece from a strip of steel, welded, ground and painted.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

NOTE: If you ever need to replace your front Endura bumper bracket(s) be forewarned if you are replacing a bracket and using the original front bumper the brackets made today are manufactured to fit a NEW Endura bumper. The lower mounting hole on each side must be modified to allow the lower bumper mount to be completed. Top of the old bracket mounting hole is 8 inches the new bracket is 8 7/8th.

You can see some of the torch damage on the old bracket.

















Soaked larger parts in a 5% cleaning vinegar bath for 24 hours before scrubbing with the kitchen scrubbers from Mrs. Dan's stash.  Does a really good job of cleaning and loosening rust. A few easy passes with the kitchen scrubber and it's clean for painting. I use an old overheating hair drier to heat up parts to make sure all moisture is removed before painting.










Ended up getting new headlight actuators as well soooo those get washed with alcohol and cleared with diamond clear. Diamond clear works really well to protect metal from heat and crud.

One came in damaged... Ames reaplced it in just a couple days!










Painted the new brackets after modification and test fit for the misaligned lower mounting hole. First I used a self etching primer then rust preventive black. They look good, too bad no one will ever see them! 


















Tomorrow I start reassembly after more test fitting... if the rest of my parts get here.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Final test fit went perfectly. Now have the new brackets fastened in place on the bumper and waiting for the last of my parts to arrive. Decided to replace all the bushings in the hideaway headlight assemblies to avoid any trouble in the near future. Although the current bushings are ok to eh and since I have everything apart and restored everything else I should replace with new "while I was in there". 
T-23 days to "opening day" AKA Burnin Rubber Day. a legitimate holiday here in the great North Coast. 🇺🇲


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

So... one headlight bucket reassembled with new bushings etc... new actuators cleaned and cleared (background of pic below).

It became clear very quickly that adjustments are going to be needed when assembly is mounted to the bumper.
Precision engineering and assembly was not a high priority 59 years ago. 

Note: took a bit of figuring to identify all the proper nuts and bolts needed from the Master Body Kit to reassemble the front bumper. I am not familiar with the terminology used on the bag levels but I took one bag and matched it up with how things had to be reassembled. I. E. 6 nuts attach this, two bolts and U nuts attach this etc etc.

Note 2: the new headlight adjustment screws (and old) have two clips (one plastic and one metal) which must be snapped into place. Ensure clips are seated properly (inside the mounting hole) then slide a 3/8th extended socket over the screw and tap with a light hammer to seat the metal clip.










Did a small bit of frame work on this rail. It was fairly bent up. Flattening up the surfaces and eliminating bumps allowed the bumper bracket to be adjusted more easily/accurate. Applied a little heat and a dead blow hammer did the trick.

Will have to do a bit more "metal work" on flanges etc to make final assembly go better and fix some of the aforementioned potential rattles.

Also installed the frame seals which were trashed or missing.










Almost can't tell it was repaired, okay yea it does. Not bad for a rookie. 










Touched up mounting spots... now to start reassembly then rewire headlight, parking and corner light sockets (Most are shot.) and replace vacuum hoses (which started started this whole front end restore project).










Yesterday I found SEVERAL more missing nuts and or bolts. ALL of which I am CERTAIN will help stop rattles and banging as I drive over bumps on our lousy Ohio roads. Luckily, All the new hardware in the Master Body Kit is replacing the old in the front bumper so I can use those "old" OE fasteners to "fill in" the missing hardware.

Amazing how a car can "appear" to look all-together but in reality it isn't even close. I shouldn't be surprised any longer when I find these glaring oversights or lapses in judgement when it was "restored" nearly 30 years ago.

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, the next part designed to be used with NEWLY manufactured parts, not EOM, is the hidden headlight door bushings which allow the door to open and close. The new ones (black) are a bit thicker than the EO style (White) and require modification to allow the doors to move freely. I replaced all BUT the door bushings and everything appears to be working well - tested with a 25fcm vacuum pump and by mouth (simulating much lower vacuum levels).

Looks like the headlight in this bucket had been rubbing because it was not snug in its housing.










Halfway done... looks good and operates as it should... I kept the other subassembly together so I could use it as a guide in reassembling the other side. Those smaller parts are now tumbling in my parts cleaner and the larger parts are soaking in 5% vinegar for a couple days followed by a short soak in metal cleaner and a wash and dry then paint etc.











P.S. Spring is missing because I had to touch up the paint job...

T-16 days until opening day!!!  mooo haahahahah 

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

LOVE vinegar to strip parts... cheap, effective and reusable! most washes off with a stream of water, the rest with a little elbow grease (some times after another soak).

The brown stuff on the bottom appears to be glue used to hold the headlight door front on.


















Just over half done...



























Restoring bolts and screws... adding a coat of rust preventative paint.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

dan woodland said:


> LOVE vinegar to strip parts... cheap, effective and reusable!


That must give your salads an interesting taste.:\

I must confess to accidentally ingesting unidentified substances while under my car and talking to someone.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

67ventwindow said:


> That must give your salads an interesting taste.:\
> 
> I must confess to accidentally ingesting unidentified substances while under my car and talking to someone.


Ha too funny

Helps keep the in-laws away as well! 

All kidding aside, it works really well as a paint, grease and rust stripper. Cost is 3$ for a 1.3 gallon jug and it can be reused A LOT or poured into house drains to clean them. It's way cheaper than spending $40 bucks for a gallon of metal prep. I do use metal prep but as a wash to get the flash rust off parts after rinsing vinegar away... that way I use almost no metal prep.

Notice the flash rust after vinegar bath and before metal prep wipe down.









After the metal prep wash... paint really sticks to metal after this process and is fairly durable given its from a rattle can.


















Here you can see the paint literally falling off in the vinegar.










next, reassemble the left front... More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Bumper assembled... installed and all working BUT one of the new turn signal housings. Ames is sending another, when back in stock.

Looks pretty good.

















Bad turn signal housing means the valance has to come back off... my hands are to large to fit in the small opening between body bits.










Friend helping me... Now waiting for new right hand door cover and left hand turn signal housing... 

P.S. Turns out the right front fender is not a GTO fender. ;( Something to be addressed IF I get her a paint job in the future.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

FYI: if you use loctite thread locker on screws for the headlight doors fronts and grill screws don't get it on the plastic... I used a very old bottle, apparently the plastic does not like the locker. It reacts with the plastic and ends up cracking. An expensive lesson.

Burned a little rubber in front of the house putting her away  ........ full on rain last night, all day today and tonight.... rubber burning season opens tomorrow!! mooohahahahaha


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

oh, and if using the original chrome from headlight doors and grills on NEW doors and grills they will need some massaging to make fit... The grill moldings on mine were way off, doors were pretty close to a natural fit.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Decided to restore the turn signal housings since the "NEW" ones don't work and are out of stock. You can see the water lines in the housings... these babies were nearly half full!!! some elbow grease and a light wire brush did the trick. One on the right was nearly done... cleaned up pretty well. I cleared both front and back.

Finally have everything done! Left rubber all over town yesterday, good thing too, it will be raining for the next couple days so I have my rubber buring fix. 









I have a little adjusting to do with the grills but it looks good now. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY there are zero rattles now!!! Amazing how much nicer it is ti drive with it being quiet!!! Total of 11 missing bolts!! Amazing.










Speaking of bolts... normally a bad thing but these were all left over. All of them were incorrect or used in the wrong places. This doesn't count all the U-nuts left over as well, 4 or 5 different kinds were used in the "wrong" places as well. I should not be surprised anymore but I am. 










Time to melt some B.F. Goodrichs!!! 🏎🏎🏎🏎🏎🏎

Next, finish the interior.... radio center console etc.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

oh, and the headlight doors, the main reason for doing all this, work perfectly!


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Video?


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

integrity6987 said:


> Video?


Don’t have any of the approved sites storing media.


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## soberjoe (Nov 28, 2016)

dan woodland said:


> Bumper assembled...
> 
> P.S. Turns out the right front fender is not a GTO fender. ;( Something to be addressed IF I get her a paint job in the future.


Is it a LeMans fender? Are there tell-tale differences?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

soberjoe said:


> Is it a LeMans fender? Are there tell-tale differences?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, as well as the truck lid. I can see where the mounting holes for marker lights or emblems were badly patched.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

AND... If you plan to restore your valence and the turn signals try reusing the old housings. The new ones have a single screw holding everything together (Outter bezel, lens, gasket, housing, valance bezel and rear support bracket). The old housings, valance bezel and rear support bracket are held in by their own lock nuts and washers with the outer bezel, gasket and lens held in place by two small finish screws In the face of the housing. I mention this because to replace bulbs in the future (in the new housing) the entire assembly must be removed and you’ll need to get your hand (mine won’t fit) behind the housing through a small hole, some how, to hold everything together while installing the single long screw. You may need to remove the entire valance to get the job done and get everything back together.*

*unless a body and paint guy knows some trick.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Mission accomplished! Rear tires are just about shot. 










Front on the right... rear on the left.

Had to have them rebalanced... car was shaking at highway speeds. New tires ordered to replace he rears.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

oops... guess I over did it.  Found several tears and was down to 3/32s tread.

















Put the older tires on the back... started at 8/32s so I'll see what they are at the end of the season... or earlier.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

New experience today... while traveling 35mph on a city street I tramped on the gas chirping the tires. ?? Not odd for a GTO but an automatic? Didn't think it possible...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

We interrupt this driving season to bring you a foray into another example of shoddy work of others…

First… threads on the fuel filter inlet housing threads failed while one hour from home. Luckly had a bungee cord I used to “pull“ it into the carb so we cold get home.










To correct that issue I was fortunate to reach Cliff Ruggles who turned around the repair of my threads in LESS than ONE day!!! He also suggested increasing the needle and seat size while I had the carb apart to address the engine “laying down” at full throttle late in a run. Having previously increased to . 39 (from stock) with a carb rebuild kit from Cliff, he suggested an increase to .40. What a difference! Now she keeps pulling at the end of a run!! Who knew I could have MORE fun driving her!!! 

Once again, Cliff knows his shit! Thanks Cliff!!!!

Now to the shoddy work on my engine rebuild! MORE shoddy work beyond the botched build and incorrect intake manifold after the second rebuild to fix the first!!!!!!

Early this spring I saw a really slow small oil drip at the front of the oil pan. Figured it was a loose oil pan bolt or two. Snugged all those and, dried the drip and moved on… a month later I get this after just a few moments of the engine running. Bad pic but you get the idea. Not where Texas crude should be!










Turns out the timing chain cover gasket had failed… or so I thought.

Took it all apart to find this!!! They used HOUSE caulk on the water pump AND timing chain cover!!! WTF!!!! And on top of that it, besides not being needed, you can see the CAULK squeezed out from the mating surfaces into the void and stuck to the interior portion of the gaskets and parts!!



















No telling how much of that crap is floating around in the engine. At this point it's not causing issues and hopefully never does. I can't afford another rebuild of this engine, for those that doesn't know they are 2-3 times as much as a Chevy power plant, precisely why so many are put in all types of cars.

Luckily I have a 45 yr mechanic/drag racer to assist me. We got it back together, aside from a couple small coolant leaks everything went perfectly!










At least they used a one piece gasket on the oil pan... something they did right!

“While we were at it”, we suspected a failing fuel pump causing the lean fuel issue mentioned above. We installed a new OE fuel pump. 

Now she runs like a scalded cat!! Lot’s of fuel and more power! Just in time for the Pontiac Nationals! Ha ha

Back to our feature Presentation 










I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning!!!!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Ever feel like you're going round and round in circles?










Had a little fun yesterday...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Started to restore my air cleaner...

Question:
Use low gloss black or flat black paint? Mine has both finishes on it. Here it has both glossy and flat. 










Interesting, everything was assembled then painted... even the gasket for the vacuum sensor was painted over!!



















If you are going to make a die to remanufacture restoration parts why not duplicate the old part "exactly"? Old on top, new on bottom... Luckily the old brackets fit over and hold the new "motor" (as GM called them) very well so it will operate but still look like the original.










Spot welds were NOT spot welds, they were more like blob welds. the first one came off almost perfectly but the second had a weld 10 times larger. Tore the metal on the second snorkel but luckily it won't show once I get done with repairs and restoration of the assembly.










For shitz-n-giggles I'm using the Service manual procedure to repair these so technically it will be "correct: when I'm done even though there are new parts "under" the brackets. 

I was able to open the vacuum sensor "housing" and insert the new guts so it looks original - not that I'm a stickler for originality but I try to stay close as I can given my budget. 

More to come...


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Got the air cleaner stripped and primed...

















A nice surprise hidden below the grime!!










You can see the bottom where the air cleaner stud in the carb was scrapped across the bottom...










More evidence the parts were assembled then painted.










LOVE the Aircraft paint stripper!!! had it stripped except a few small areas in under 15 minutes!!!!

















More to come...


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Sorry just triggered flash backs of MEK baths at the wash rack.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

67ventwindow said:


> Sorry just triggered flash backs of MEK baths at the wash rack.


Funny 

ha ha


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Oh, and I forgot to mention I LOVE metal prep for bare metal!!! Amazing product, never ceases to amaze how clean metal is after a bath… sorry 67ventwindow. I hope I don’t trigger another flashback.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

Just remembering days where 18 year old E-1 know nothings got selected for wash rack duty. Come back with chemical burns cause improper suit sealing. But I see the Ambulance chasers have a class action law suit.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Looks pretty good!










Just painted original mounting brackets.










Holy crap!!! Self etching primer is $6 a can here! Can't wait until the world "gets right".










Assembly back on the car with vacuum "motors" working perfectly! Engine heats up a bit faster (also installed a 180 thermostat) with the "heat riser" working correctly now.

Next...

Trunk lid and other rattles/noises, glove box latch, install or swap out missing and incorrect nuts, bolts and screws...

Sending radio out for Aurora conversion, based on Flambau's recommendation. Thanks again Andy.

Oh, and melt remaining rear tire rubber by end of driving season.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I initially reassembled the air cleaner with brown rivets, it's all I had, so I could get back on the road... today I swapped out the brown for black. much better.... 

















I'm used to seeing a crappy damaged paint air cleaner but this is much better. ')










🏎


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Been flyin around town burnin rubber while I still can… can’t believe it’s mid-September already! Fall/Winter hobbies are just around the corner!!!

Had a rapidly draining battery issue. Found out it was the glove box light not shutting off. Apparently over time the glove box door loosened up and dead battery. So while fixing that the glove box lock has broken. Now I can’ get the glow box open. Tried key in all orientations with no luck. Tried sticking a wire inside, no luck. Tried finesse and “vibrations’, no luck.

Anyone have a sure fire method to opening a broken glove box lock? Can it be picked? Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

Keep the rubber side down. Dan


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

Try bending a paperclip wire and insert on the top /flat part of the key so the cut end engages the tumblers a bit more.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

integrity6987 said:


> Try bending a paperclip wire and insert on the top /flat part of the key so the cut end engages the tumblers a bit more.


Will do… thx for the suggestion.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

dan woodland said:


> Will do… thx for the suggestion.


Unfortunately that didn't work... paperclip was too large, I tried other smaller sized wire... no luck.

Anyone else have an idea?

Thanks, Dan


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## integrity6987 (May 10, 2017)

dan woodland said:


> Unfortunately that didn't work... paperclip was too large, I tried other smaller sized wire... no luck.
> 
> Anyone else have an idea?
> 
> Thanks, Dan











Lock Pick Set


We stock the most effective, highest quality lock pick sets that allow you to open locks and doors without keys. Free Shipping on orders over $35. Shop Now!




www.lockpickworld.com


----------



## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

No luck on the glove box lock as of yet. Locksmiths won’t touch it and nothing I’ve found on the internets worked there isn’t much out there on this... I’m hesitent to drill it as the front bezel and button are in very good condition and I would hate to destroy them. I’ll look into it next season… time to work on winter stuff and hobbies as it is raining A LOT here lately Cutting ride Eason short.

Enjoy/survive winter and see ya next year peeps!


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

dan woodland said:


> No luck on the glove box lock as of yet. Locksmiths won’t touch it and nothing I’ve found on the internets worked there isn’t much out there on this... I’m hesitent to drill it as the front bezel and button are in very good condition and I would hate to destroy them. I’ll look into it next season… time to work on winter stuff and hobbies as it is raining A LOT here lately Cutting ride Eason short.
> 
> Enjoy/survive winter and see ya next year peeps!


Cut a big hole in the bottom of the glove box and reach up there and manually open the lock. Install a new replacement glove box.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> Cut a big hole in the bottom of the glove box and reach up there and manually open the lock. Install a new replacement glove box.


ooo, good idea but I just thought of how to do something very simular and not ruin the whole glove box liner. If it works I’ll post the results.

Thanks PontiacJim!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

I didn't get to it before snow flew here in the cold cold midwest but I'll get to it next year in the spring. 

I plan to drill two small holes in the glove box liner and use a long screw driver or metal rod to disengage the lock from inside using the second hole to see what I'm doing.

Received my radio back from its Aurora updating... basically, new guts with the original case, dials etc. Sounds great. Can't wait to install it in the spring. I'll send some time in the cabin, radio, center console, A/C duct etc next year. Until then she's hibernating on her lift and winter hobbies are in full swing!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Wow, who know I’d be busier in retirement than when I worked! 7 months since my last post, crazy!

Pull the car out, two minutes later smoke from the engine bay! Love when things go “bad” while sitting for 7 months. Turns out ALL the valve cover bolts were loose some how. Cleaned up the mess while removing and reinstalling the bolts. This time with thread locker - blue. 

Next sorting out the wiring for the radio, hacked up by someone before me, and tracking down the reason my battery is discharging. I know it‘s not the battery or a short - I put a test light between the negative terminal and cable, it didn’t light. Then trying to break into the glove box since the lock is shot. I have 12.3 volts over 3 weeks while disconnected so it’s not the battery.

Anyone have an idea what it could be? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I was supposed to get two new tires this year after melting them on the road last summer but around here they are nearly $200 EACH! Along with $6 bucks a gallon for gas my ‘joy riding’ had been greatly curtailed! 

More to i come….


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

dan woodland said:


> Wow, who know I’d be busier in retirement than when I worked! 7 months since my last post, crazy!
> 
> Pull the car out, two minutes later smoke from the engine bay! Love when things go “bad” while sitting for 7 months. Turns out ALL the valve cover bolts were loose some how. Cleaned up the mess while removing and reinstalling the bolts. This time with thread locker - blue.
> 
> ...


Dan,
In regards to your battery drain problem I'll tell you what I ran into as I had an electrical drain issue "off and on" for several years. it might give you another place to look. My problem was with the glove box light. When I closed the glove box it didn't push the switch down far enough to kill the glove box light. I chased my tail on that for a week since that is part of the dash lighting circuit. I finally found it by checking resistance to ground, going through and disconnecting various lighting circuits until I found the culprit. My fix was to glue a small square piece of 1/8" aluminum to that part of the glove box door that pushes on the switch. Bingo, problem solved. I'm sure if looked at it harder I could adjust the door, or find a different switch that would work better, but I'm just happy I found the issue and got it solved.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Jim. Yea, I found that last summer as a problem, broke the glove box lock at the time - hence needing to break into the glove box now. Ha ha

I have a bit of a larger issue at the moment now. Brake master failed last night on a ride… That was a touch scary. Approaching a highway from a perpendicular road brake pedal got very hard then a pop and the brakes were better for a second as I jammed it into second then first while hitting the emergency brake… that was fun. Mr’s Dan almost had a couple involuntary protein spills. 

New goal is to get her road worthy again and I’ll work on the battery issue a bit later.

Anyone have a recommendation on a VERY GOOD brake master!? I have never had 100 percent failure before and the master is supposed to be only 9 years old.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions or information.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, a very long summer with lots of excitemen!

First the brake master failed under braking as we approached a divided highwaymentioned above… limped home and fixed that issue… next time I took Mrs. Dan for a ride the power steering failed in a 90 degree corner! That was fun…. Not!

Fixed that issue and the power brake booster failed on the next trip out, this time I was alone. Mrs. Dan won’t go with me until I have a few eventless trips in a row. HAHA

So, next week I fix the brake booster and then start on my winter list… oh and I figured out the electrical issue killing my battery. Turns out it was the brake booster! It was not pushing the break pedal bake to disengage the brake light switch. I found that after returning from a late night run, walked in the garage in the dark and noticed a red light coming from the back of the car. Epiphany! Since then I made sure to pull back the brake pedal wihen returning home and the battery has been fine. Weird!

Changing things up, going to turn GTO todo list into winter hobby so next year I get to just melt tires!

List: 
1. Radio and speaker install.
2. Vacuum line replacement under dash.
3. Glove box/lock fix.
4. Courtesy lights Install.
5. Dome light reinstall.
6. Rear seat arm rests install - sheet metal issue.
7. A/C duct Install.
8. Center console install with liner.
9. Grease front caliper pins.
10. New trunk seal.
11. Replace rear window corner trim.
12. Power steering and alternator bolt swap (modern for correct bolts)
13. Check/replace rear brakes.
14. Replace interior screws etc with correct hardware. 

More to come!


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

dan woodland said:


> List:
> 1. Radio and speaker install.
> 2. Vacuum line replacement under dash.
> 3. Glove box/lock fix.
> ...


Brake booster installed. 

Was not hard. I highly recommend removing the wiper motor. This will give you better access to the passenger side bolts. There may also be a 3/8ths ish plastic push-in fastener protruding from the firewall you may want to trim. It blocks wrench movemnt on the lower passenger side nut. 

Three small bolts hold the wiper motor on the firewall. You’ll also need to disconnect the wiper armature from the motor. DON’T disconnect at the main nut, instead loosen the two small nuts on the “clamp” which holds onto the ball end of the main arm. You’ll also need to remove two screws on the cowl screen to access the arm.

It was fun firing her up to roar in the middle of December! Love that rumble! Neighbors not so much in love with that sound. HAHA

Pulled her into the driveway (no salt or winter crap in it yet - hate OHIO winters) and the braking is awesome! Had no idea how long that old booster was bad!!

More to come…


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

Driver side fender GTO emblem came off… apparently it was double sided taped on because they forgot to install it properly before installing the fender or fender liner.

Is there any way to install the emblem WITHOUT removing the fender or fender liner? I have the correct nuts for the emblem studs.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dan


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## GTOTIGR (May 3, 2020)

Hi Dan. Yes. There are fasteners that attach to the emblem studs that when inserted into the fender emblem holes will stay put. They are typically sold at Autobody paint stores. I’m sure you could also find them online. In order to use the OEM nuts you will have to remove the fender.


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## dan woodland (Jul 24, 2013)

GTOTIGR said:


> Hi Dan. Yes. There are fasteners that attach to the emblem studs that when inserted into the fender emblem holes will stay put. They are typically sold at Autobody paint stores. I’m sure you could also find them online. In order to use the OEM nuts you will have to remove the fender.


Many thanks! Found the barrel clips you are referring to. Much appreciated! Dan


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