# Red 68 convertible Resto..



## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Hello all again, it has been a while since I have been on here and active but I am back for good. Can't let you guys have all the fun with me :willy:

Here is my 68 convertible with all numbers matching. Had them all professionally checked by a local classic car "specialist" in Sacramento who confirmed them. 

Its an Ohio based car so this will be a very big task getting the body rush free and metal reworked. Luckly, that is the only thing the car NEEDS, everything else will be cosmetic.

Enjoy 

I have pics from the initial assessment being taken today so will get those up as well.

ps. I am nowhere close to having magic hands like some of you, so I will not be preforming the resto, a local shop in Sacramento has the task. But, I will assist with some little things as much as I can, and of course I would love your input along the way. :seeya:


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Nice looking car! Welcome aboard and enjoy the project. Post more pics!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Nice. It doesn't look like it needs much...

Bear


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Very sharp looking car. Factory 8 track, too. Keep us posted on the resto/body work!


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## kilkm68 (May 5, 2011)

I'm partial to Red '68 convertibles, BEAUTIFUL car! I really like the factory 8 track, brings back memories of the time.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks a lot guys. I agree she is a beauty on the outside, unfortunitly her makeup can't cover and continue to hide what's underneath it all ... I am sure we all came across a woman like that at one time or another lol..

I'll have pics of the first assessment uploaded tonight. Stay tuned.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

At the point of no return now:lol:

Here are the pics of the initial assessment. 

As you can see, they found a lot bondo in the quarter panel and fenders which is concerning. They believe the rear quarter was hit at some point in time. I am hoping this is a simple fix with patch repairs with nothing needing to be fully replaced. :confused


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Here's what the floors look like, which I am most concerned about. The undercarriage was Rhino lined which to the eye does not look bad but the question is what is it covering up. Carpet was pulled back and floors were looked at from the inside, and you can see the rust showing on that side. 

They are thinking the floors will need to be replaced. What do you guys think about the floors? I am no expert but the floor from interior view does look too too bad. Then again, the trunk floor is rusted pretty good..


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Doesn't look terrible but I would replace under rear seat area at very least. Just my .02


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Floors look savable to me but i am a budget build kinda guy.I would take a wire wheel to them from the inside if it's just pinholes you can use all metal filler, or duraglassthen coat it with POR15 , you just need to get all the rust scale off (don't grind to bare metal) as the POR is made to bond to and convert the rust and make it inert. Worse case i would weld in patches and not a full pan as it only looks to be bad in the wells. Really depends on what level you take the restoration to, not all cars need to be taken down to the last bolt, body off concourse restoration. Heres the equation, the more you take it apart, the more, money, time and space you will need to get it back together. Body looks like just patch panels, have them check the front and rear window channels too, they were a problem area, more so in the 66-67's and vinyl top cars as the false fastback fins helped hold the water on the rear deck panel especially if the car was raised in the back at all. Thats also why so many of the trunks are rotted out in these cars.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

FlambeauHO said:


> Doesn't look terrible but I would replace under rear seat area at very least. Just my .02


Yeah FlambeauHo :agree, thought it doesn't look terrible as well. But under the bench seat looks like it needs to be cut out.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Instg8ter said:


> Floors look savable to me but i am a budget build kinda guy.I would take a wire wheel to them from the inside if it's just pinholes you can use all metal filler, or duraglassthen coat it with POR15 , you just need to get all the rust scale off (don't grind to bare metal) as the POR is made to bond to and convert the rust and make it inert. Worse case i would weld in patches and not a full pan as it only looks to be bad in the wells. Really depends on what level you take the restoration to, not all cars need to be taken down to the last bolt, body off concourse restoration. Heres the equation, the more you take it apart, the more, money, time and space you will need to get it back together. Body looks like just patch panels, have them check the front and rear window channels too, they were a problem area, more so in the 66-67's and vinyl top cars as the false fastback fins helped hold the water on the rear deck panel especially if the car was raised in the back at all. Thats also why so many of the trunks are rotted out in these cars.


Yeah I would like to retain the floors if possible budget wise and originally wise. However, I do understand this was an Ohio car so the issues present are explainable. This is just the first assessment Instag8ter, so maybe the concerns are just that, and not too much cutting will be needed. Wish that Rhino line wasn't applied before, that is what has everyone in the dark or in a catch 22. If they leave it be, it could be hiding protential problems and only a matter of time before a foot falls through the floor! lol  And if they work and blast the rhino liner off, which was applied heavily, they could be taking some of the metal along with all the bad stuff, which then a floor replacement would for sure be needed. Decisions, Decisions 

Your completely right, there is rust on the windshield deck lid where the dash and windshield meet. I did not see any in the back.


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey Kingfreeze, I am in your backyard (proverbly speaking). I too am working on a '68 Convertible build. I must admit, you are starting with a much more solid base than what I have to start with. 

With the exception of you floors under the bench seat, your floors look good, easily as good as mine. I already followed the advice of others here, and wire wheeled the floors and primed them in a rust inhibiting primer. Howeve I do have a few pinholes and am still trying to analyze whether filler (All Metal with kitty hair) is sufficient enough or if a patch is order. 

Overall you have a nice ride. I would love mine to look close to that right now. I have been able to tackle the majority of rust on mine. I have a quarter panel fender well lip that needs a patch, floors with a few pinholes, a trunk with 2 questionable spots and a small rust spot (or two) where windshield meets dash area. Hopefully those issues will be resolved soon. 

Anyways, it is always cool to meet a fellow GTO guy (and '68 convertible too boot) in my local area.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Once you start going at the inner pans with the wire wheel to will know your problem spots rather quickly and can asses the plan from there. you can order a pan and cut out what you need and have it welded in grind down then touch up the rhino liner on the bottom and no one will ever see the patch. Fact is when they are done these cars don't see rain, salt and snow like they did when they were built, so unless you leave it sit outside year round it should last as long as the new paint job. At 17 we used a two No Parking signs to do the floor pans of a 65' Mustang. I'm just saying there are varying levels of repair between that and pulling the body off the frame of a solid car. Lotta solid cars get relegated to piles of parts once the body comes off the frame. I'll get some shots of my trunk, tedious work but i am happy with the outcome.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

mrvandermey said:


> Hey Kingfreeze, I am in your backyard (proverbly speaking). I too am working on a '68 Convertible build. I must admit, you are starting with a much more solid base than what I have to start with.
> 
> With the exception of you floors under the bench seat, your floors look good, easily as good as mine. I already followed the advice of others here, and wire wheeled the floors and primed them in a rust inhibiting primer. Howeve I do have a few pinholes and am still trying to analyze whether filler (All Metal with kitty hair) is sufficient enough or if a patch is order.
> 
> ...



Hey Mrvandermey, thanks for the post. Sorry I am just getting back to you my friend, had a whirlwind hit me last week.

I am a bay area native man, born in Richmond, lived in Vallejo most of my youth until junior year of high school, then all my family one by one moved to Sac, been there since.

Send me a couple pics of your goat man, would love to check it out and follow your progress as well.:cheers


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks guys for the advice, if I were a handy man and could do it myself I would definitely go that round. My body shop guys want to patch under rear seat and another area in the front near pedals, everything else is getting rust treated but not replaced. I am waiting on update on all that now, I am told the patches are in now, and that they are sand blasting the whole car and putting into primer and will get updated pictures of before and after any day now.. stay tuned my friendsarty:


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Looking forward to updates!


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Just got the pics of the completed floor. Looks very good to me, I am excited about how it turned out. They replaced the section under the rear seat, and another section in the front, everything else we treated then glassedarty:


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

With good, there is always bad. The car was sandblasted to bare metal and put in primer...she looks rough around the edges and we have our work cut out:shutme:shutme


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Definitely have your work cut out but you're off to a good start!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yeah sanblasting can be a very revealing experience. We know it can be disheartening going from shiny red eye candy to this but it's better to do it once than again in a few years when the old sins start popping out in your fresh paint. Just remember, it only gets better from here.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Your right Instag8ter, felt my heart drop when I seen this. I expected floors, trunk, patches near wheel wells but to see that driver side front quarter and passenger rear quarter in they shape they are took me by surprise. 

We are now accessing what's the best and most cost efficient way to go on. 1. To replace the full quarter panels with new or used ones, or 2. just the section of the quarter that's messed up. With the latter your talking more hours of labor. Any thoughts?


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

I'd keep as much factory steel as you can within reason, cut patches out of repro panels.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Kingfreeze21 said:


> Your right Instag8ter, felt my heart drop when I seen this. I expected floors, trunk, patches near wheel wells but to see that driver side front quarter and passenger rear quarter in they shape they are took me by surprise.
> 
> We are now accessing what's the best and most cost efficient way to go on. 1. To replace the full quarter panels with new or used ones, or 2. just the section of the quarter that's messed up. With the latter your talking more hours of labor. Any thoughts?


That's always a big decision. I went the route of replacing a full quarter on my 69 and let me tell you, it's a TON of work. Just getting the old one off required cutting no less than 169 spot welds including a half dozen or so that are _inside_ the quarter panel along the top of the rocker panel. I had to cut a big hole out of the side of the car just to get to them. Then too you have to contend with the fit of the repop panel which in lots of cases isn't all that great. One place mine was really off was in the shape of the curve around the lower corner of the rear window. It made re-installing the window reveal moulding nearly impossible. I had to make some relief cuts along the lower edge of the moulding just so I could try to re-bend it a little to fit the opening. It still looks ugly but at least it's in there. In the end, I probably made the right decision though because on my original that's where all the rust was. That curve around the rear window corner and extending out several inches in all directions was just gone, and it had let water run down into the trunk which took out the bottom edge of the panel behind the wheel and some of the wheel arch and wheel house as well. If all those areas are still "mostly" intact on yours, I'd probably lean towards patching the bad areas instead of replacing the entire quarter.

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

FlambeauHO said:


> I'd keep as much factory steel as you can within reason, cut patches out of repro panels.


I agree, but i might try and find a better original passenger fender to start with. Is that car from out west or over here in the "rust belt". Looks like the salt damage we see here in the Motorcity. After scouting cars for the last year around here i will spend the thousand extra every time to ship one in from out by you to get good factory metal. Never fear, we will help you get her straightened out. In for a dime, in for 10K, welcome to the wonderful world of restoring classic Pontiacs....:willy:


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

BearGFR said:


> That's always a big decision. I went the route of replacing a full quarter on my 69 and let me tell you, it's a TON of work. Just getting the old one off required cutting no less than 169 spot welds including a half dozen or so that are _inside_ the quarter panel along the top of the rocker panel. I had to cut a big hole out of the side of the car just to get to them. Then too you have to contend with the fit of the repop panel which in lots of cases isn't all that great. One place mine was really off was in the shape of the curve around the lower corner of the rear window. It made re-installing the window reveal moulding nearly impossible. I had to make some relief cuts along the lower edge of the moulding just so I could try to re-bend it a little to fit the opening. It still looks ugly but at least it's in there. In the end, I probably made the right decision though because on my original that's where all the rust was. That curve around the rear window corner and extending out several inches in all directions was just gone, and it had let water run down into the trunk which took out the bottom edge of the panel behind the wheel and some of the wheel arch and wheel house as well. If all those areas are still "mostly" intact on yours, I'd probably lean towards patching the bad areas instead of replacing the entire quarter.
> 
> Bear


That there sounds like a lot Bear. Yeah I do not want to go that route. I really thinking that patching maybe route I go like you and FlambeauHO suggested in hope to save as much original metal as possible. I mulled over full replacement simply because unlike the two of you, I am not logging the hours myself, and time is money with this hobby lol


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Instg8ter said:


> I agree, but i might try and find a better original passenger fender to start with. Is that car from out west or over here in the "rust belt". Looks like the salt damage we see here in the Motorcity. After scouting cars for the last year around here i will spend the thousand extra every time to ship one in from out by you to get good factory metal. Never fear, we will help you get her straightened out. In for a dime, in for 10K, welcome to the wonderful world of restoring classic Pontiacs....:willy:


Yeah they are going to search and see if they can find an original one Instg8ter just to keep all options open for when final decision has to be made, either way if aftermarket or one off another gto, patching will be our first hope, unless a full replacement is the ONLY way to go.

You are absolutely right about that one, found that car not too far from you. Its an Ohio based car, so it seen a ton of snow.

I really appreciate your help and thoughts, really, this is my first restoration so all of this is a learning process for me. I am def in the thick of things now, lol, she has both hands in my pockets, but I wouldn't have it any other way:cheers


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Hang in there man, the results will be well worth it as you will have a beautiful GTO convertible and be the envy of many.

So sorry to see that there were so many sins hidden under that shiny red paint. I can relate as my car basically had deteriorated completely under all the chrome trim and when i went to pull it off the trim just fell off in my hands. Whenever I look at a car now I know that the rust will be at least twice as bad as what is visible.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

lol yeah I will be just like you in that regard ALKYGTO...scared for life, any car from here out I will pick it apart before I even think twice about it. Luckily this one is worth the trouble, most aren't.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

if it gives you any Solis this was my first too...a vert gto is worth the energy. Was in Vegas a month ago and saw a nice 69 at a repair shop near the Pawn Stars place, was tempted to stop and take a look,but gambling and drinking got in the way...:cheers


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Damn I missed you where you were there. My job has me in Europe for the next couple months. You stop through this summer Instg8ter we will have to hit the table games and try out luck together. Oh and of course cruise the strip in a shinny new goat!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I will definitely take you up on the offer KING, would love to cruise LVB in a droptop GTO. First time there in the 90's we rented a Viper for a few days, that was a blast. I would never beat on my car like we did that rented mule though. I am gonna try and get there for the WSP this year if funds allow, if not i will be there in Jan again for the builders show and maybe a stay over for the Super Bowl. Left there + 600 this year so it was a good trip, found a bias roulette table at the D downtown and took full advantage.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

hahaha, that is always good when that happens. Love when lady luck falls on the side of the players. Its funny when some dealers take it serious like they are playing personally against you. I give them the hardest time, like "this isn't your money, it's the casino's"

When you plan the trip let me know, I'll send you my cell and we'll link up!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> found a bias roulette table at the D downtown and took full advantage.


Whuzzat? Tell me more....

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I get the dealers playing along with me on roulette, put a chip on top so if i win they tip out at the rate i win, at the very least it makes them not play against me. Doubt the table had a bias, but i was up 100 an hr over the course of two 6 hr sessions playing the wedge around the single zero for singles betting 15+ a spin. I look at gambling like business if i am making 30%+ ROI I'm happy, i am having fun, drinking for free and getting paid for it!:cheersarty: very few get rich at the casino if they count their losses against their wins. I usually play poker where all the house gets is rent, and i control my own fate, but i won't walk away from a roulette table thats paying me. At one point out of the 20 numbers on the count board 14 were payouts to me, and there was one dealer out of the 4 or 5 they rotated in that made me most of it and he also helped the tip ratio substantially. Good fun and a free vacation, meals and air a write off for business (the show) what could be better. I'll let you know if i can make it this summer KING.:cool


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Sounds good Instg8ter. You will have to show me the ropes on the roulette table, I have always stayed away from them. I understand it, know how to play but play like rook. lol I normally play blackjack and craps. I play poker but learned my lesson playing in casinos lol. I sat down last summer in Aria, within the first hour I took 3 big pots, went +$700. I am not the type player to win a big hand and then run from the table, so I stayed on. In the next hour everyone had my number, lost the $700 I was up along with another $300 and vowed I'd near sit in a casino again! hahaha:willy:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

LOL...yeah i play for fun too, never take more than i can't leave there W/O being pissed off at myself and leave the Credit Cards at home. Lotta sharks in poker rooms there, like to play tourneys and will usually sit at the 1/2 tables in the evening and grind it out. Last time i was in Vegas we got in late and the only game at Harrahs was a 2/5, 3rd hand in i catch a set of kings, guy rivers a flush on me, not there 15 minutes and a third of my stakes were down the toilet. Did hit a 50/50 at the local car show this year for 1800, and i called the number out of my 20 tickets right before the little girl drew it.There were 10 of us sitting around and another 20 in earshot and no one could believe it.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Instg8ter said:


> was tempted to stop and take a look,but gambling and drinking got in the way...:cheers


Lol!

It is an inordinate amount of work but you get the added bonus of bringing a classic beauty back from the dead!


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

Ok guys I am back with the latest news on the build. As you know I have been waiting to get a game plan together and to have different body guys out to assess the job and give quotes. My car guy, Henry, is a classic car enthusiast, especially Pontiacs' so he wants to bring in a specialist or someone who he knows that specialize in the type body work and mods needed, and doesn't want his temp in house body welder guy to touch the car since his main guy had to take a leave of absence.

To cut to the case, the first guy quoted $7k to repair and patch all metal, and have it primed and ready for paint.(parts and labor included). As pics earlier suggest, a lot of patches will be needed , and full replacements won't be necessary.

2nd guy who looked, quoted $14k:shutme. Thats for all patches, labor, and near show level paint.

Thing is, Henry has a great paint guy in house that will give me a $10k level paint for $4k because of my relationship with Henry. So getting this body work done, and done right for the money myself and Henry thinks it should be done for is the hold up. We both agreed that $8k was the number to get all body work, repairs, patches, and GREAT paint on, so in the mean time while he uses he contacts in resources to outsource the body repairs, we decided to take care of other parts of car to not waste time.

Speaking of, does anyone know any good body guys that are reasonable in the Sacramento/Bay Area?? I have the car is Sacramento since my family is there and I am all over for work. This is where I wish I was handy like the rest of you and could do this myself, definitely would save a lot in labor.

In the meantime we are addressing all upgrades/fixes underneath the car. Decided to go with a wilwood front disc brake set up inside of right stuff. In the end I didn't want to turn the axles down. Suspension wise, I am rebuilding front end with all new bushings, and adding a heavy duty sway bar. In the rear I am adding new coils, springs, and kyb shocks. Really want this beauty to drive and stop great. Lastly, we found a couple engine and transmission leaks, so those will get addressed and fixed now too. So all this stuff will get started next week..

Sorry for the such a long post, its been a while since I updated, and I like be detailed. Please let me know if you guys know anyone in my area who is real good and up for the body job.. I will update with pics of brake, suspension, engine and tranny work soon as the jobs are finished.:seeya:


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## mrvandermey (Jun 15, 2011)

Kingfreeze21 said:


> Ok guys I am back with the latest news on the build. As you know I have been waiting to get a game plan together and to have different body guys out to assess the job and give quotes. My car guy, Henry, is a classic car enthusiast, especially Pontiacs' so he wants to bring in a specialist or someone who he knows that specialize in the type body work and mods needed, and doesn't want his temp in house body welder guy to touch the car since his main guy had to take a leave of absence.
> 
> To cut to the case, the first guy quoted $7k to repair and patch all metal, and have it primed and ready for paint.(parts and labor included). As pics earlier suggest, a lot of patches will be needed , and full replacements won't be necessary.
> 
> ...


I am in Fairfield, CA (about 40 mins from Sacramento) and there is a place called Graphic Auto Body in Fairfield, they do awesome work. They do my cars. I have been using this shop for 7 years and I know the quality and work ethic of the shop owner and crew. They do top notch work.


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## Kingfreeze21 (Feb 2, 2012)

mrvandermey said:


> I am in Fairfield, CA (about 40 mins from Sacramento) and there is a place called Graphic Auto Body in Fairfield, they do awesome work. They do my cars. I have been using this shop for 7 years and I know the quality and work ethic of the shop owner and crew. They do top notch work.


Yeah I will have to look them up and give them a call and see if they are willing to send someone to view the car. Thanks for the tip Mrvandermey! :cheers


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