# Trying to identify TH400 without a tag



## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

While trying to discover stuff in my GTO I would like to understand if it is possible to identify the original car my TH400 was on. Although the engine is matching numbers the trans is not as I have the stampings on the drivers side and the last digits do not match any part of the VIN.

I do not have any tags on the passenger side and I cant understand why they removed it in the first place....

Being a 68, it has a his and hers shifter and I was reading on here that the transmission had some difference in the high pressure lines when a his and hers was installed.
So considering that its not the original trans I wanted to find out if it was at least from a 68 and perhaps if I could identify if it was matched to a his and hers shifter system by looking at components. The number that I have on the drivers side is '46E115617'. Does it mean its from a 1964?

I currently have the oil pan removed as I am waiting for an aluminum pan and a new shifter shaft (mine was a bit pitted where the oil seal mates). I also replaced the o-rings for the kickdown wire connector, speedometer housing and speedometer cable shaft hopefully I get rid of oil leaks. Is it possible to identify this high pressure system by looking at the components under the oil pan?


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Well I believe I could answer one question, The TH 400 came out in 67.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

😂
Thanks I feel stupid that I asked the question…

At least it cant be more than a year older than the car then 🧐


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## Rocketman269v (Oct 5, 2020)

pontrc said:


> Well I believe I could answer one question, The TH 400 came out in 67.


The T-400 actually was introduced in 1965. You can tell the difference between a '65-'67 and the '68 on up by the pan. The early ones used a different filter which used a small "sump" under the oil pick-up. The later models have two dimples in the bottom of the pan.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Well the sump that I have is a chrome sump with a 'TH400' embossed on it. I don't think its stock so cant tell by the sump shape.


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## pontrc (Mar 18, 2020)

Rocketman269v said:


> The T-400 actually was introduced in 1965. You can tell the difference between a '65-'67 and the '68 on up by the pan. The early ones used a different filter which used a small "sump" under the oil pick-up. The later models have two dimples in the bottom of the pan.


My bad sorry aseyc


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

pontrc said:


> My bad sorry aseyc


You are forgiven


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

The GTO and other high HP TH-400s had different calibrations than the generic 400. 

Its really a moot question since a rebuild on a TH400 often changes the calibration of the valve body. Most quality rebuild kits will have upgraded clutches and bands. The valve body can be easily modified by the average owner in his garage.
The best oil pan I have used is the factory steel, deep sump pan from the 3/4 / 1 ton truck or Suburban. Adds a few quarts more. No leaks.

Can you print the VIN thats on the transmission?


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Vin on the transmission is 46E115617.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

*46E *115617

Appears to be from a '76 (6) Buick (4) Riviera built at the Linden New Jersey plant (E).

From Wikipedia List of General Motors factories - Wikipedia


ELinden AssemblyLinden, New JerseyUnited States19372005Chevrolet Blazer, GMC Jimmy, Buick Riviera, Oldsmobile Toronado, Cadillac Eldorado

The Cadillac Eldorado and Olds Toronado were front wheel drive cars.
Riviera was rear drive
These three cars were known as E Body Luxury Coupes

The trucks were the midsized S-10/15 models and would not have a TH 400.
Unless the trans was rebuilt or modified it may well still retain the Riviera's calibration of smooth shifting.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Wow that’s interesting. It surely does shift smoothly, a lot smoother than my 700 R4 on the Transam.
So this was fitted to an engine with 360 BHP and 475 torque so even if it wasn’t messed with, it should have some headroom in terms of durability to live with my Pontiac 400 correct?


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

Original engine for the 76 Riviera was a Buick 455 with about 205 HP and 345 lbs-ft of torque. But all TH400s are strong. Its descendants are the electronic overdrive transmissions 4L80E/4L85E used in the heavy duty GM pick up trucks.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Yesterday I changed the shifter shaft as it was pitted where it seals. At times the his and hers shifter was a bit difficult to find Reverse so I thought while I am at it with the pan removed, lets try and set the ‘clocking’ of the lever. I will be able to see the detents clearly.

I cannot get the shift lever to synch with the detents as the cable is always a bit long.

The only adjustable point of this configuration is the pin in the transmission bracket and its as far forward as it can go. Now after I fiddled around more, a lot if times I have to slam the lever back to get the car in drive. Its like it need to go further rearwards.

In my opinion as long as the cable reaches the bracket properly without unnecessary bowing, it should not matter if the cable is matched or not. The cable is just a linear movement.

I think the only place where this can get mismatched is the actual transmission bracket where the pin is located as the distance of the pin from the shaft and the location of the pin is fully dependent on this bracket.

Mine is like the bracket in the below link however I am seeing a different style in other posts. Considering that we concluded that the transmission is from a riviera I am not excluding that I have the wrong bracket and that its the reason why I have these issues.





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Google Image Result for https://s3.amazonaws.com/gearbox-yearone-com/part-images/q/qr116.png






images.app.goo.gl





Can someone show me a correct his and hers fitted transmission bracket?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

aseyc said:


> Yesterday I changed the shifter shaft as it was pitted where it seals. At times the his and hers shifter was a bit difficult to find Reverse so I thought while I am at it with the pan removed, lets try and set the ‘clocking’ of the lever. I will be able to see the detents clearly.
> 
> I cannot get the shift lever to synch with the detents as the cable is always a bit long.
> 
> ...



Do you have a Chassis Manual for your car? There are a number of diagrams that should show the console, cable, brackets, and adjustments.

If you do a search of the forums, there are some posts that may be of help as this has come up several times. Here are a couple that may give you some help.









1967 Shift Cable Bracket


I looking for an automatic transmission shift cable bracket for my 1967 GTO that has the Hurst Dual Gate Shifter and TH400 transmission. I was taking to a rep at Ames Performance who said they have one for a 1968-1977 but not one specifically for a 1967. She said that she had no idea where to...




www.gtoforum.com













'69, TH400 Shifter Cable


Howdy everyone! Long time.... How's everyone been? I'm looking for a GOOD quality replacement shifter cable for my '69 -aka- 'the Beast'. The original GM 9791611 part number cables are discontinued, and the ones I've found on places like Ebay are "priced accordingly" - as in close to $200...




www.gtoforum.com













His/Hers Shifter Cable Issue


Greetings everyone! I've got a '67 with a TH400 His/Hers floor shifter that I am scratching my head at. When I bought it in December, I could not get it to drop into 1st on either side (His or hers). Been trying to adjust the cable for the past couple of days at the transmission connection...




www.gtoforum.com


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

The 68 service manual shows a different bracket than the one that I have but i don’t know if there were different versions. Surely on mine I cannot get the pin to 7.260 in park as the pin doesn’t go forward that much.

The issue is that the service manual doesn’t have part numbers. I’ll check the GTO restoration guide and try my luck there.


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

No luck on the restoration guide. It just illustrates the same diagram as the service manual but no p/n.
Perhaps someone with a his and hers can provide me with a photo at least I'll be able to check visually how the linkage is supposed to look like? From what I could understand, the shifter linkage that I have (simlar to the link that I provided above) is normally used with column shifters (that's the use of those two lugs) but somehow it also has the pin to which the cable connects to. Don't know the use of having them both....

The only p/n I could find was 9794309 which should be adequate for a 1968 TH400 with console shifter but there is no mention of his and hers compatibility.

My worry currently is that apparently I can burn the clutches if Drive doesn't engage properly...


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

From the 68 Parts manual

PN for the cable is 9791611 which should be just under 30" long.
9791611 was superseded by 498467. 
Both of these cables were used on a number of GM cars including the Camaro and are on Ebay.
498467 is still available new from GM




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498467 - Genuine GM Cable,Trans Control


GMPartsGiant.com offers the great deal for genuine GM parts, 498467. Cable,Trans Control for $46.97. All parts are backed by the GM's warranty.




www.gmpartsgiant.com




or Ames PN R157

PN for the console bracket is 9793193. This is another common part used by GM on other makes.
Ames has this part (R157L)
PN for the transmission lever is 9793194. Ames PN R157FH

Theres a good drawing in the Ames catalog under Automatic Shift Cables and Components (pg 294 in the 2021 catalog)


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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Wow I couldnt ask for more... Went straight to my Ames catalogue and right there it is. So apparently the bracket that I got is for a 69-77 whereas the one that I need is from 66-68.

Perfect. Thanks alot. Will order it and when it arrives, will keep you posted on here.

Thanks again Ed.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)




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## aseyc (Aug 26, 2020)

Small contribution to the community for whoever has the same question as I did. I followed the recommendation on here and got the above '68 shifter bracket in an attempt to get to the recommended 7.260 distance from the fixed bracket to the shifter bracket. I did manage to achieve this distance successfully although I still didn't try the sifting points.
You can however see the difference between the bracket that I had (on top) and the one that I got and you can see that the '68 goes further forward which is what I needed.


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