# Is the GTO quick



## 36Goat (Jun 23, 2006)

Does the GTO run good? Every video I see seems to be an 04-06 goat getting its but kicked. Are they just bad drivers or slow cars.


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## Napoleon_Tanerite (Aug 3, 2006)

most of the vids are taken from the "I cant believe his ______ is actually beating a GTO" standpoint. that should tell you something


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

it's run WELL. no run GOOD. thanks.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Depends on your definition of quick. I personally was highly disappointed with the power of my 05 stock, but I was told that on cool days they run much stronger- the tune is pretty rich on the cars stock, so that would explain it. People compare to mustangs all the time and say the GTO is faster, etc.- yes, it is- but I have seen several stangs run very good times with minimal mods vs. very few GTO's run strong (although there are a lot out there that do). I think the GTO is a much better built car and has gobs of potential, but for me personally, I felt it left a lot to be desired in stock form. I have since installed a procharger and some other minor tweaks and just put down 547 hp and 456 tq. to the wheels monday night- through stock manifolds, cats, etc.- so it is much better now . Still gets beat by some of the imports around here though haha. Weight and IRS kicks the GTO's ass when it comes to the 1/4 mile, but it makes a great road car- handling is decent for it's weight, top speed is impressive and they are nice and smooth to drive.
Joe


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## BigNick (Jan 7, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> the tune is pretty rich on the cars stock


They do seem to blacken the inside of the tailpipes REALLY quick. :lol:


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## Napoleon_Tanerite (Aug 3, 2006)

how easy is it to lean out? is that even possible without major work and a loss of daily driveability?


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

If you have the software and knowhow- it is just a couple clicks of the mouse. If not, then just get it tuned by any of the reputable shops out there and you'll be good or pick up a handheld programmer (last resort IMHO).
Joe


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

*I have no problems or complaints with the performance of mine.*


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## Mickey21 (Jun 18, 2006)

Is the GTO quick?

Yes...

Next question...


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## 36Goat (Jun 23, 2006)

I do agree. So my next question, are the imports that easy to tune, that they all run low 13's to high 12's, or are they rare cases?


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## adearmas2 (Jan 2, 2006)

Does a Moose hve bad breath?


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

If you know what you are doing, it is fairly easy to extract power out of t a turbo 4. not to mention, you are working with a lighter car so it doesn't take as m uch. My car did 546 to the wheels and gets walked by a ~450 whp Integra from a 2nd gear roll. I start to pull on him up around 120ish.
Joe


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## 06GeeTeeOOH (Jul 2, 2006)

i love my goat


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## Kanding (May 29, 2006)

36Goat said:


> Does the GTO run good? Every video I see seems to be an 04-06 goat getting its but kicked. Are they just bad drivers or slow cars.


A number of folks have ran high 12/low 13 for 05/06 stock. The times are not consistent, though.


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## hardball75006 (Aug 4, 2006)

> Is the GTO quick


Is a Frogs as$ water tight?


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## 36Goat (Jun 23, 2006)

I'm glad to hear. I like my GTO enough that I talked my father into buying one. Mine is an 05, his an 06.


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## tanktronic (Jul 7, 2006)

When you're talking about "is the GTO quick" as compared to another car, isn't it pointless to talk stock GTO versus modded whatever? To say that a heavily modified ricer would beat a stock GTO says nothing about anything. If you were talking heavily modified GTO versus modified ricer, then you have something. Something tells me that if I dumped the $5,000 that Johnny Honda dumped into his rice rocket into my GTO, there's nothing to talk about. 

Who asks if a 400hp beast is quick, really?


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## GOAT 06 (Apr 21, 2006)

:agree


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2006)

36Goat said:


> Does the GTO run good? Every video I see seems to be an 04-06 goat getting its but kicked. Are they just bad drivers or slow cars.


get a life


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## enjracing (Jun 7, 2006)

serious.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

tanktronic said:


> When you're talking about "is the GTO quick" as compared to another car, isn't it pointless to talk stock GTO versus modded whatever? To say that a heavily modified ricer would beat a stock GTO says nothing about anything. If you were talking heavily modified GTO versus modified ricer, then you have something. Something tells me that if I dumped the $5,000 that Johnny Honda dumped into his rice rocket into my GTO, there's nothing to talk about.
> 
> Who asks if a 400hp beast is quick, really?


I just know as for "bang for the buck" for a modded street car, it is a poor choice. $5k into most "ricers" will run traps that are hard to acheive on a stock block GTO . We come from different worlds apparently, so there is no use arguing it, but the GTO is considered a pig, dog, "why the hell did you get *that*???- I guess it is a nice driver, but don't waste your time modding it" "my friend had one for two months and traded it in", etc. around here. They are looked at as garbage due to their poor performance stock (except the 3 days a year where tehy are capable of a good time lol) and the IRS. I have said before, I bought the car for the LS2 and 6 speed, I love the potential of the LS motors and this car was more practical (yet a hell of a lot heavier) than a C6. Aside from the drivetrain, it is also a very comfortable car that is a nice cruiser. Also, yes for stock, it is one of the more powerful ones out there but those mustangs you guys like to knock are better performers at the strip with the same amount of $$$ as you would put into a GTO. All in all, I like the car and have no gripes about it other than it's "ok" performance stock, but I have been told most of that is in the tune and a good tune is worth it's weight in gold with the GTO. I know I go against the grain of the "I love my GTO" enthusiasts here, but we all bought our cars for our own reasons, for me it was more practical than a vette and awesome potential of the LSx motor and I knew from the start it would be modded within months of purchase (and I don't mean K&N and muffler delete ).
Joe


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

tanktronic said:


> When you're talking about "is the GTO quick" as compared to another car, isn't it pointless to talk stock GTO versus modded whatever? To say that a heavily modified ricer would beat a stock GTO says nothing about anything. If you were talking heavily modified GTO versus modified ricer, then you have something. Something tells me that if I dumped the $5,000 that Johnny Honda dumped into his rice rocket into my GTO, there's nothing to talk about.
> 
> Who asks if a 400hp beast is quick, really?


:agree 

Yes, some rice patties are more than 5K, imagine more than that, 900 horses probably would go a long way, rather do the LS2 then some 1/2 bolt main rice cake with a fart can.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Man, you people are hard core Import haters . Why does it need a "fart cannon" to be fast? That is like if someone were to say all domestic drivers carried their skoal on their back pocket, had Hijacker, Thrush, Hooker stickers all over thier car and glass packs with their Pro-Trac 50's on aluminum slots. Let's not stereo type here- it can go both ways, you know .

I have no love for any specific brand, model, origin, etc. I just know what potential is in any car and don't narrow mindedly call the other guys junk. I do admit, there are more ricer wannabes than fast guys driving Imports- and I have this deep-seeded hatred for ricer wannabes, but I still respect a fast car no matter what it is. There are just as many morons drivng GTO's, Camaros, Vette's, etc. that could ruin the brand image if that was your sole opinion of the owners just as easily as ricers driving imports.
Joe


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## smokey (May 6, 2006)

This seems like a very odd question. As far as new performance cars go, I would say definately yes. It's one of the quicker cars you can buy. It is well doccumented that the GTO will run very low 13's, and some high 12's (although rare) completely stock. 

Now, if buying a car for competing at the track is the objective, I don't know that the GTO would be my choice. However, if that were my motive I would not buy anything new. 

Then again it all depends on your intentions. The GTO can easily and cheaply be modified to run mid 12's. Headers, tune, DR's air bags, and you'll be right there. How fast you want to go is only dependant upon the size of your wallet - just as it is with any car.


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## TexasAggie (Mar 2, 2005)

enjracing said:


> it's run WELL. no run GOOD. thanks.



You are correct.


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

smokey said:


> This seems like a very odd question. As far as new performance cars go, I would say definately yes. It's one of the quicker cars you can buy. It is well doccumented that the GTO will run very low 13's, and some high 12's (although rare) completely stock.
> 
> Now, if buying a car for competing at the track is the objective, I don't know that the GTO would be my choice. However, if that were my motive I would not buy anything new.
> 
> Then again it all depends on your intentions. The GTO can easily and cheaply be modified to run mid 12's. Headers, tune, DR's air bags, and you'll be right there. How fast you want to go is only dependant upon the size of your wallet - just as it is with any car.


AMEN BROTHER:cheers


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

smokey said:


> This seems like a very odd question. As far as new performance cars go, I would say definately yes. It's one of the quicker cars you can buy. It is well doccumented that the GTO will run very low 13's, and some high 12's (although rare) completely stock.
> 
> Now, if buying a car for competing at the track is the objective, I don't know that the GTO would be my choice. However, if that were my motive I would not buy anything new.
> 
> Then again it all depends on your intentions. The GTO can easily and cheaply be modified to run mid 12's. Headers, tune, DR's air bags, and you'll be right there. How fast you want to go is only dependant upon the size of your wallet - just as it is with any car.



Perfectly said . I just prefer to work on a new car than a higher mileage used car, I always build low mileage/newer cars- some people cringe when they see you build up a 24k mile 89 Turbo Trans AM (one of my previous play toys)- but it is my car, my money, I'll do as I like- and I like to work on new and clean, not old and grungy .


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## 36Goat (Jun 23, 2006)

Next time I will think before asking a simple question on this board.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Why? I think you got some good answers from varying opinions- I would rather that then have a board full biased opinions . It all depends on your definition of quick, I have had people jump in stock Kias and say they're quick, and I have seen others go for a ride in 600 whp cars and say they're slow. Having varying opinions and angles helps make for better advice IMHO.
Joe


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## banshee (Jun 7, 2006)

Comparing a heavily modified ricer to a gto is utterly stupid. A stock gto will do a 12.9 1/4 with slicks. I've seen ricers run low 12's, but the difference is that they over heat fast and they're on the side of the track with they're hoods up while the V8's hold down fort. Rice rockets don't last long, and believe me, I live in th rice rocket capital of the world. Two or three runs and they're toast.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

banshee said:


> Comparing a heavily modified ricer to a gto is utterly stupid. A stock gto will do a 12.9 1/4 with slicks. I've seen ricers run low 12's, but the difference is that they over heat fast and they're on the side of the track with they're hoods up while the V8's hold down fort. Rice rockets don't last long, and believe me, I live in th rice rocket capital of the world. Two or three runs and they're toast.


I agree totally. And like you, I've seen quite a few modded imports being towed off the track.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

I'm sorry for keeping this going- but I have seen quite a few modded everything being towed off the track . It is the price you pay for speed. Now, the thing that pisses me off is when you get the typical ricer moron out there trying to launch his 15 second pos at 8500, breaking something and puking oil all over the track- but I have seen that with plenty of domestics too. Hell, I saw a 11 second ZR1 break at the track almost every time he went, so it isn't "just" imports- we all break when we start doubling or tripling stock power .
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

I completely missed the "they overheat fast" comment- where did you get that from? Maybe people who don't know what they are doing. I know quite a few Civics that will stomp a GTO from 60-150ish. Only thing is they are still ugly . I kicked around leaving the GTO alone and building a turbo Civic hatch or something, but I can't bring myself to drive one lol. I may just call it quits with the GTO after the headers, exhaust and tune- I am hoping to be knocking on 600 whp and that will be good enough- did 547 through stock manifold, cats and procharger tune, so it is do-able. After that, I am building another Talon. Hell, a guy I know of just did 517 to the wheels with a small turbo (basically 1 size up from stock) and a 75 shot (along with fuel mods) on a stock ECU with AFC. Not to mention the AWD and weight advantage- on the strip, the GTO is dead. On the highway, it is another story . I just like the goat for mid-top end runs, but 1/4 isn't it's strong point.
Joe


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

The bottom line is, it's your money spend it how you choose. Just realize that someone out there is always going to be faster. And normally it's a car that you least expect to spank you. 

If you feel the need to mod a school bus then do it. Just make sure it's the short one so you can be a passenger as well as the driver.


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## 86Noel (Aug 9, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Man, you people are hard core Import haters . Why does it need a "fart cannon" to be fast? That is like if someone were to say all domestic drivers carried their skoal on their back pocket, had Hijacker, Thrush, Hooker stickers all over thier car and glass packs with their Pro-Trac 50's on aluminum slots. Let's not stereo type here- it can go both ways, you know .
> 
> I have no love for any specific brand, model, origin, etc. I just know what potential is in any car and don't narrow mindedly call the other guys junk. I do admit, there are more ricer wannabes than fast guys driving Imports- and I have this deep-seeded hatred for ricer wannabes, but I still respect a fast car no matter what it is. There are just as many morons drivng GTO's, Camaros, Vette's, etc. that could ruin the brand image if that was your sole opinion of the owners just as easily as ricers driving imports.
> Joe


:agree 100% true. I am the same way. I like anything that has potential. I am not only a 1/4 mile guy. I like road racing, drifting and autocross. So I tend to like a big variety of cars.



banshee said:


> Comparing a heavily modified ricer to a gto is utterly stupid. A stock gto will do a 12.9 1/4 with slicks. I've seen ricers run low 12's, but the difference is that they over heat fast and they're on the side of the track with they're hoods up while the V8's hold down fort. Rice rockets don't last long, and believe me, I live in th rice rocket capital of the world. Two or three runs and they're toast


Well, most import owners are young guys who spend all their hard earned money on performance parts that give insane amounts of power instead of building the drivetrain, cooling, and etc. all together. I've seen many turbo Civics that go over 300 hp, but they have a stock clutch, driveshafts, and stock radiator. Us import guys are young, and with that young age comes either stupidity or not knowing much. I give credit to those guys who run 12s with their 1.8 liter motors, just as much as I give credit to any V8 that runs 9s.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> The bottom line is, it's your money spend it how you choose. Just realize that someone out there is always going to be faster. And normally it's a car that you least expect to spank you.
> 
> If you feel the need to mod a school bus then do it. Just make sure it's the short one so you can be a passenger as well as the driver.


A bit sarcastic, but that short bus comment was still funny as hell .

I'll let it go from here because it is like pissing in the wind at this point.
Joe


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## twofast4u (Aug 2, 2006)

36Goat said:


> Does the GTO run good? Every video I see seems to be an 04-06 goat getting its but kicked. Are they just bad drivers or slow cars.


A friend of mine has a chevelle ss with a 350 turboed. We went to an area around my town where alot of people race, and we found a 05' gto and we got him to race my friend. When I was standin off to the side and saw them take off, I do have to say the gto's ass literally touched the ground when he got on it and was able to stay with the chevelle ss. So I would definetly say the gto is a quick/fast car. But I also have to say that it all depends on what type of mods you give it and how you drive it.:willy:


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> A bit sarcastic, but that short bus comment was still funny as hell .
> 
> I'll let it go from here because it is like pissing in the wind at this point.
> Joe


I don't care what you decide to let go because once again you are misinterpretting what I wrote. What I wrote was not directed towards anyone in particular. Why don't you find a modded ricer forum to join so you won't have to read defensive comments from *G-T-O* owners on a *G-T-O* forum?


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## CrazyAL (Jan 30, 2006)

hardball75006 said:


> Is a Frogs as$ water tight?



Does a fat baby like cake?


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> I don't care what you decide to let go because once again you are misinterpretting what I wrote. What I wrote was not directed towards anyone in particular. Why don't you find a modded ricer forum to join so you won't have to read defensive comments from *G-T-O* owners on a *G-T-O* forum?


Yeah, because modded ricer forums are my thing. How hard is it to understand "depends on your definition of fast"? I did think this site was more mature than "my car is best your car sucks" though. Of course I don't expect GTO owners to not defend their cars- but do so with reason and with all the correct facts. The GTO has a horrible rep for being slow, overweight, crappy rear, etc.- I didn't make that up, that is what the car has proven to people over the last 3 years. If you can't openly accept that the car has pros and cons, then like I said- trying to explain it is like pissing in the wind.

You guys knock mustangs all the time and say they are slow and the GTO's are gods gift to fast cars- you know what, dollar for dollar a modded stang will slaughter a modded GTO (again- with the right mods) at the strip so I guess I should join a mustang forum also. I am here because I bought a GTO and while I do like it for what it is (I think it is a gorgeous, comfortable car), I bought it for what it can be. It is when people start "defending" their cars by insulting others that it is just resorting to childish Joe Dirt tactics. I thought we were all more mature than that. I am just explaining the performance/horsepower POTENTIAL of various cars and stating which ones are better suited for what. These "goodalrn ricer junk" comments make me feel like I am on a ****ing 1971 dodge dart message forum. So if they are "all" ricers by their choice of cars, then I guess the term dumbestic that many use applies here also- sure being narrow minded like the stereotype dumbestic driver. 

Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

CrazyAL said:


> Does a fat baby like cake?


Heh- never heard that one before lol.
Joe


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## UdnUdnGTO (Jan 30, 2006)

Hey Joe, you own an Sti??? Are you a Suburu guy? I read your profile and you don't say what you own. I have a friend that has an Sti and went to Cobb Engineering in Salt Lake. His Sti is almost, I say almost an even match for my stock yellowjacket GTO. We go back and forth all the time. Is that what your are trying?


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

UdnUdnGTO said:


> Hey Joe, you own an Sti??? Are you a Suburu guy? I read your profile and you don't say what you own. I have a friend that has an Sti and went to Cobb Engineering in Salt Lake. His Sti is almost, I say almost an even match for my stock yellowjacket GTO. We go back and forth all the time. Is that what your are trying?


No, I had an 05 WRX that I bought in Sept of 04 and traded in June of 05 towards my Truck- I hated that car hah. I have an 05 Procharged GTO, I stated that I own a GTO a few times. My car is 547hp/456 ft-lbs at the wheels untuned through stock exhaust, cats, manifolds, etc. I have a set of Kooks headers and some other items on the way and then I'll get it retuned- shooting for the 580 range and noticeably more torque .

I'm not trying to argue or go back and forth, I just can't stand narrow mindedness and willingness to accept that "your choice in cars" doesn't make it the best thing out there. Sure, defend your car with pride- nothing wrong with that but to do so by putting others down instead of using your cars strong points is childish. It is like a salesman who tries to sell his stuff by insulting the competition- with me, that blows the deal right there.

As for the STI- Cobb isn't the ideal place to go, they are one of those wrongfully glorified names out there. The STI has gobs of potential, but also is not a roll on car- they need the advantage of their AWD launch due to gearing and such. If they are highly built and make more power, then it is another story. As for a modded one barely keeping up with a GTO if this is a drag race- tell him to learn to drive . I have seen numerous 13.0-13.5 runs out of stock STI's with good drivers- very comparable to a GTO and on the street where traction is an issue, they should kill it in the 1/4. Now, after that the GTO should pull hard obviously. There are more 10 second STI's than GTOs though, so don't sleep on them all . Like I said, unfortunately, most of the ones you see are cars owned by people who either have a) no money or b) no knowledge to do it right and they ruin the image for others. Don't point fingers at the cars for this- kind of like the GTO with a poor driver . I simply stated that both sides have people "representing" them that give a poor image of the group, so calling all imports and drivers ricer or junk is like calling a GTO, Vette, Stang, etc. garbage based on a few poor examples.
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Oh yeah, if anyone is within driving distance of Middletown, NY- I would be happy to introduce you to some people who will open your eyes to the potential of cars other than the GTO on a Friday night. It is pretty fun to hang out, race, talk cars, insult the jokers and make some money off unsuspecting domestic V8 guys with our buddy's Integra or even a few SRT4's that are in our "group" of friends up there. Heh- there is even a Dodge 3500 Turbo Diesel that will put a hurting on pretty much everyone here (including me) lol. Like I have said in the past, I just come from a different automotive background than most here, so I have a different perspective of fast or what makes a car good for such a goal. The GTO is more my "nice day, occassional car show" car, I never planned or expected to make it something it just isn't very capable of doing. I will be building another Talon for my "drag toy". I just wanted it to be fast enough for me to enjoy driving it and it still has a little way to go for my liking lol. Almost every car I have had (daily drivers included) has trapped low 120's and up, so that is what I am used to.
Joe


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## 86Noel (Aug 9, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Yeah, because modded ricer forums are my thing. How hard is it to understand "depends on your definition of fast"? I did think this site was more mature than "my car is best your car sucks" though. Of course I don't expect GTO owners to not defend their cars- but do so with reason and with all the correct facts. The GTO has a horrible rep for being slow, overweight, crappy rear, etc.- I didn't make that up, that is what the car has proven to people over the last 3 years. If you can't openly accept that the car has pros and cons, then like I said- trying to explain it is like pissing in the wind.
> 
> You guys knock mustangs all the time and say they are slow and the GTO's are gods gift to fast cars- you know what, dollar for dollar a modded stang will slaughter a modded GTO (again- with the right mods) at the strip so I guess I should join a mustang forum also. I am here because I bought a GTO and while I do like it for what it is (I think it is a gorgeous, comfortable car), I bought it for what it can be. It is when people start "defending" their cars by insulting others that it is just resorting to childish Joe Dirt tactics. I thought we were all more mature than that. I am just explaining the performance/horsepower POTENTIAL of various cars and stating which ones are better suited for what. These "goodalrn ricer junk" comments make me feel like I am on a ****ing 1971 dodge dart message forum. So if they are "all" ricers by their choice of cars, then I guess the term dumbestic that many use applies here also- sure being narrow minded like the stereotype dumbestic driver.
> 
> Joe


You are so on it man. I've seen a turbo Civic almost beat a 10 second Viper. He lost becuase he left his e-brake on. The Viper only had a 1/2 car on him.
It's understandable if you don't like a car or a certain group of cars, just because they don't grab your attention. But when you start insulting people's cars because you think a 4 cylinder car is not supposed to be fast, that is being dumb and closed minded. I admit I have a slow import, but I am trying to build it. It's stock right now, and I keep up with 5.0 Mustangs. My car only makes 112 hp and 90 ft/lbs of torque, thanks to it's 1.6 liter motor, and the only thing that makes my car potent is that it is RWD with a stock LSD. It's a lot more fun than many Camaros, Mustangs, and T/As I have driven. It handles well, and with it's light weight, I can throw some crazy drifts. I don't think there should be anymore ricer comments in here.


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

86Noel said:


> My car only makes 112 hp and 90 ft/lbs of torque, thanks to it's 1.6 liter motor, and the only thing that makes my car potent is that it is RWD with a stock LSD. It's a lot more fun than many Camaros, Mustangs, and T/As I have driven. It handles well, and with it's light weight, I can throw some crazy drifts. I don't think there should be anymore ricer comments in here.


Let me guess, you have AE86 GT-S Corolla, I have a Lift Back that I have had since 1987, 212 Miles on it Original LSD, Tranny, Rebuilt Motor 150K in 1998. I still dive her today. I know and love the car.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Kwiktsi, I disagree with your comment that a modded Mustang will beat the GTO dollar for dollar. It would take a supercharger on the 4.6 to get it to the performance level of a stock GTO. You have a supercharger on yours, and I'd bet you run into the 11's pretty good. To get a 4.6 Mod motor to that point your into the bottom end plus heads and cams. Now add heads and cam to your car and your running into the 10's. The Mustang is about a second behind. Period. 

Now for the diamond star cars and the Civics, Integras, 240SX, and such, to get them into the GTO's performance range you have to modify them. If you are going to mod them you have to compare it to a modded GTO. At which point you now have GTO's running deep into the 10's and being driven on the street. A guy that I know that owns a speed shop has an 04 that he runs into the low 10's all the time and has a 9.8 pass with it. How deep is your pocket book???? 

For the guys that say the GTO is too heavy, you have to really look at it's purpose, being a comfortable high performance GT coupe. The GT part means it needs to be a comfortable touring car which requires sound insulation and a solid body structure, which adds weight. Compare it to a BMW 6 series or a CLK Merc and it actually is light. 

Now to answer the question, "Is the GTO quick?" The only answer that makes sense is if you talk about a Stock GTO versus a Stock just about anything else,you need to spend at least 10k more to get anything that is good competition for it. It is more than quick it's fast. This statement is based on new cars and not some $2500 Firebird Formula or Honda Civic POS that's got $10,000 in mods in it. Let's get real.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

patisi said:


> Let me guess, you have AE86 GT-S Corolla, I have a Lift Back that I have had since 1987, 212 Miles on it Original LSD, Tranny, Rebuilt Motor 150K in 1998. I still dive her today. I know and love the car.



I almost bought a twin cam Corolla. Ended up with an Acura Integra instead. I had a friend with a 1988 (I think) and we raced the Integra vs Corolla battle many times. I usually won, but they were close enough that you didn't know the way it would end up till it was over. That car was/is definately more than the sum of it's parts.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

fergyflyer said:


> Kwiktsi, I disagree with your comment that a modded Mustang will beat the GTO dollar for dollar. It would take a supercharger on the 4.6 to get it to the performance level of a stock GTO. You have a supercharger on yours, and I'd bet you run into the 11's pretty good. To get a 4.6 Mod motor to that point your into the bottom end plus heads and cams. Now add heads and cam to your car and your running into the 10's. The Mustang is about a second behind. Period.
> 
> Now for the diamond star cars and the Civics, Integras, 240SX, and such, to get them into the GTO's performance range you have to modify them. If you are going to mod them you have to compare it to a modded GTO. At which point you now have GTO's running deep into the 10's and being driven on the street. A guy that I know that owns a speed shop has an 04 that he runs into the low 10's all the time and has a 9.8 pass with it. How deep is your pocket book????
> 
> ...


There are quite a few that frequent our local track with headers, exhaust, gears, slicks/drag radials and spray running mid-low 11's. Hard to beat the ET with a GTO with similar mods just due to chassis design alone- but the GTO will out MPH a similar stang- yes "perform better", but not beat it at the strip like I mentioned . DSM cars- I have gone 12.9 consistently with exhaust and boost controller (less than $500 in mods), same for a GTO- spend $500 on drag radials and you should have a fairly consistent high 12 second car that runs a much higher trap. More power once again, but poor 1/4 mile performance in comparison when you look at the ET/MPH of both- just like the GTO vs. stang. Yes, my car damn well better be in the mid-deep 11's for the power it puts out with decent trap and MPH- but it cost a nice chunk to get there- I can put half that into a DSM car and run faster. Yes, once you go balls out, no holds barred- a V8 obviously has more potential no matter what brand it is- but it still dollar for dollar can't compete with a lot of other cars out there. I know of a few daily driven 9-10 second 4 bangers also, so it isn't just GTO's .

I guess "poor performers" isn't stating it properly when it comes to the GTO- maybe "inefficient power transfer and power to weight" sums it up better? They can make gobs of power, but takes a lot of power to get the numbers out of them that are cake to other cars. Again, I am not trying to knock the car at all, hell- I wouldn't have bought one if I hated it, I wanted one since I saw my first 04 but I was not impressed with the performance I saw them providing and what I felt from my 05. I expected a lot more out of them, but that does not make them a bad car by any means. I just had to do a couple little things to make it more what I wanted .
Joe

edit- I should add- yes, this car performs "well" stock and will even take out a C5 vette stock, but they aren't all that fast stock either. However, they respond better to mods than the GTO. Again, this is due to the weight and driveline advantages over the GTO.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Man, reading this thread is like reading a script to a ricer soap opera. Look, members in all car forums take some type of jab at other make of cars. Most of the jabs are in fun. But to whine about ricers while trying to convince others to agree with how fast a modded tin box is compared to a stock or even modded GTO is really pathetic. It's not that serious. Different cars, different class of cars!

Fergyflyer, you're just wasting your breath trying to explain something to kwiktsi... PERIOD! Like you told him and like everyone else knows, the GTO was built as a comfortable, quiet cabin, powerful, luxury sports car not as a 3000 lb, noisy, rough riding, solid axle, rattle box. Until guys like kwiktsi understand that, they will never get it. Driving a GTO after being a 2500 lb to 3000 lb., or whatever those tin boxes weigh, and then say that the GTO is an overweight pig is just plain stupid. What do you expect with a weight difference of 700 to 1200 lbs.?

And please, for the last time. Talk stock versus stock. Talk same mods versus same mods. Talk reliability. Talk comfort. Talk long enjoyable trips (100+ miles), not just 1/4 mile times.

It's your money. Make your car as fast as you want. Just remember... High horsepower = high cost = high maintenance.

Now back to the original question. Yes the GTO is quick... for what it is.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Man, reading this thread is like reading a script to a ricer soap opera. Look, members in all car forums take some type of jab at other make of cars. Most of the jabs are in fun. But to whine about ricers while trying to convince others to agree with how fast a modded tin box is compared to a stock or even modded GTO is really pathetic. It's not that serious. Different cars, different class of cars!
> 
> Fergyflyer, you're just wasting your breath trying to explain something to kwiktsi... PERIOD! Like you told him and like everyone else knows, the GTO was built as a comfortable, quiet cabin, powerful, luxury sports car not as a 3000 lb, noisy, rough riding, solid axle, rattle box. Until guys like kwiktsi understand that, they will never get it. Driving a GTO after being a 2500 lb to 3000 lb., or whatever those tin boxes weigh, and then say that the GTO is an overweight pig is just plain stupid. What do you expect with a weight difference of 700 to 1200 lbs.?
> 
> ...


 LIke I said- I'm pissing in the wind. I don't know if I'm not communicating my thought properly or if they are being misunderstood on your end. You seem to keep the insults going like ricer, tin can, etc. Once again- I thought we were more mature than that here. Yes, I bitch about the ricer mentality- or, the young ****** punks who throw on a fart can and wing and think they can race a Z06- to me that is a "ricer" and that is what I am referring to. Imports in general are not "rice" to me, maybe more mature, maybe younger crowd and I have no grudge against Japan, whatever- but I am beyond that. Maybe when I was in high school, but I have since grown up to realize better build quality and the fact that all cars have potential. Hell, FWIW- I don't even own an import any more (except the wifes saab work car)- I have my 05 GTO, 05 Ram 1500 Hemi, 04 Crossfire (well, wifes car) and her 95 Saab and am looking to buy an 06 G6 GTP today as a daily driver (took it home last night for an extended test drive), so pretty Ironic that I don't even own an Import actually. I was torn between the Mazda 6 and the G6 and like the Mazda better, but they wouldn't work price as well as Pontiac has to so GM can move cars- again, since the imports are handing them their asses in quality and service .

Who says I don't understand what the GTO is meant to be? Almost every one of my posts states that is the main reason I bought it- but I did so coupled with the fact that I know the LSx's potential and would not have bought it otherwise because I "personally" want more out of it. IF you read my last post, I even said "it is just poor power to weight ratio"- not saying they aren't powerful, just that by design, they are heavy and that makes them slower than they could be and that is the rep. they have. Of course that makes the car slower, that is yet another reason I said that they are a poor choice if looking for a car to be really quick and it take a lot of power to get them their- again I mentioned this is due to the weight. I don't know where you think I am not understanding anything- if anything, you are completely misunderstanding everything I say and throwing insults in to boot.

I am using my money how I want and it seems people on this forum tend to knock people for wanting to improve "a perfect car" or something. I fully understand how much money it takes to make power and maintain it- this is far from my first modded car, but it is the slowest for the power it makes- AGAIN due to the weight and IRS which I knew when I bought it and was willing to give that up for the comfort (as you would see if you really read everything I said) but that does not make it superior. YES, stock for stock, it is a very quick car, but for those who have other goals than driving to Starbucks to impress their BMW snob friends about how inferior their car is than theirs, it's potential, while not limited, isn't the same bang for the buck as others out there. That's all I'm saying. Hope you understand that I am honestly not trying to pick a fight or insult ones choice- I am just trying to state an unbiased opinion which does not happen here too often either due to lack of experience or just plain ignorance to other vehicles and their potential.
Joe


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## 86Noel (Aug 9, 2006)

patisi said:


> Let me guess, you have AE86 GT-S Corolla, I have a Lift Back that I have had since 1987, 212 Miles on it Original LSD, Tranny, Rebuilt Motor 150K in 1998. I still dive her today. I know and love the car.


You got any pics of yours? Mine is an 84 SR5 that has been completely converted to a GT-S. Motor, transmission (only difference between SR5 and GT-S transmission is the besllhousing), rear end with an LSD, seats, and gauge cluster. I have a thread on the noob section with some pics of my car.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> Once again- I thought we were more mature than that here. Joe


You talk about maturity then use the word ******? For those who don't know what it means, it's probably best that you don't. You talk about being unbiased and me being insulting for using the words tin can and ricer then you mention BMW and snob friends in the same sentence. That's not being biased and insulting? How contradicting is that?

If you want to know how we got to where we are now, look at the original question. Look at your first post. Most answered the original question even after you mentioned what a modded car would do to a stock GTO. And no matter what others said about that senseless comment, YOU are the one who got defensive. And you're still being very defensive. Hey it's not that serious!

Later!

By the way, look at your post #21. Even you used the term ricer. What's up with that?


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

I believe the main problem for the GTO is traction. Do some suspension, bushing and harrop diff cover upgrade and the thing will hook like crazy. However, comparing it stock for stock, it is truly the "best bang for the buck". It is comfortable, roomy, powerful and for the weight, handles very well.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

I apologize if I offended you with that word, I never once considered it a racist comment, probably because of the area I live in and how it is used, if you took offense to that- again, I apologize. However, it does irk me when I see kids acting like that (white, black, hispanic, etc.)- it is like they have no self respect any more.

As for the snob thing- I was just fighting fire with fire- using stereotypes as others have been.

Also- the ricer comment I made was quoting someone else's use of the word- hence the " " around it . I do refer to certain types as ricers, hell we all do- but I do not use it to refer to an entire brand, origin of manufacture or someone who drives such vehicle- that is just ignorant IMHO and along the lines of calling all Domestic drivers "********".

No biggie, I still sleep at night  . Take care.
Joe



6QTS11OZ said:


> You talk about maturity then use the word ******? For those who don't know what it means, it's probably best that you don't. You talk about being unbiased and me being insulting for using the words tin can and ricer then you mention BMW and snob friends in the same sentence. That's not being biased and insulting? How contradicting is that?
> 
> If you want to know how we got to where we are now, look at the original question. Look at your first post. Most answered the original question even after you mentioned what a modded car would do to a stock GTO. And no matter what others said about that senseless comment, YOU are the one who got defensive. And you're still being very defensive. Hey it's not that serious!
> 
> ...


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> I apologize if I offended you with that word, I never once considered it a racist comment, probably because of the area I live in and how it is used, if you took offense to that- again, I apologize. However, it does irk me when I see kids acting like that (white, black, hispanic, etc.)- it is like they have no self respect any more.
> 
> As for the snob thing- I was just fighting fire with fire- using stereotypes as others have been.
> 
> ...


Apology accepted. I think it's time we move forward. :cheers


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Yes the GTO is quick!!!!! 

End of discussion!!!!

Close this thread!!!!


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## patisi (Oct 23, 2004)

86Noel said:


> You got any pics of yours? Mine is an 84 SR5 that has been completely converted to a GT-S. Motor, transmission (only difference between SR5 and GT-S transmission is the besll housing), rear end with an LSD, seats, and gauge cluster. I have a thread on the noob section with some pics of my car.


I don't have any today. I used to have them on CLUB4-AG.com and we would go up to Willow Springs for meets with Moto-P since he is in the LA Area as well. But it is not problem to get the Digital Camera out there and take some pics of her again. She might feel better as I have not been into taking pics of the cars in the last 3 years.

However she is an '86 the last year the lift back was made. It is the Blue on Blue version with the original factory LSD that will still light up both tires. I have Tokico Illuminas all around on it and it has a Web 101 cam with the Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch for the car. She still has a lot of mid range to upper range power because of the cam but she is a dog in the lower RPMs. ....I still drive her everyday in the LA commute with no trouble and she has been on Mobil1 full synthetic for over a decade. I am running the TRD headers for the car as well as the first version K & N filter that came out for the car as well as a Dynomaxx Ultra Mufflers on it. with GAB strurt Towers front and rear. Need I go on????


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## Jeffs386 (Nov 1, 2005)

it seems that the rice lovers want to come here and say"well with only 5 grand in mods I can beat a GTO" thats funny because if I put the same 5 grand into the goat I will still beat the the fart can cars from Japan and have a much nicer car to boot
I guess the question is for $30K what car(stock for stock,don't give me that crap about modding your cheap ass Honda ) beats a GTO?


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## turbodude (Jul 31, 2006)

I was gonna leave it alone, but i kept reading and reading, so i can't, here i am beating a dead horse...

Firstly let me say i have owned.....

2000 c5 corvette turbocharged [email protected] (sold) --- eddited, 9 psi made 567rwhp

1995 lexus sc300 [email protected] (soon to be sold)

1993 240sx - [email protected] (hopefully sold soon)

1993 mr2 turbo - [email protected] gt67/35r gotta love this turbo. (made [email protected] on a stock short block with stock head and aftermarket cams, with 123,000 miles on it) (not until the lord pries the keys from my cold dead hands)

1989 d16z (1.6single over head cam, vtec) [email protected] (stock short block, stock head, bigger head studs and metal headgasket using a aftermarket piggy back fuel controller ie SAFC) (gone, gone gone, never again)

1986 944 porsche turbo (i dunno how much power because it was a scca prosolo2 car) (R.I.P. Homestead, FL I hate you)

None of which broke every time at teh track or blown up after two or three runs. Actually all ran atleast 20k miles without a hitch. Only one that actually went boom was the crx, someone thought it would be hillarious on april fools day to turn the knob of my boost controller, which they thought was the radio. Needless to say 30psi in a stock honda motor, was not good. all connecting rods through the block. 


Every car i have owned i have built from the ground up by myself with help of friends, from manifolds to engine management. 

And there is always a constant, the one thing i have learned is, all motors can make power the same way. 4 cyl, 6 cyl, and 8 cyl alike. They are all the same, no matter what anyone can argue every internal combustion chambered motor can make power reliably. Its just knowing how to do it. Yes i understand there are some "ricers" you have seen with blown motors sitting with their hood open etc, etc. But i have seen just as many "non-ricers" with their car jacked up in teh rear because the broke an axle or shattered a differential, or even dented teh hood because they had a bad nitrous backfire which sent their 4 barrel shooting into the hood. Modding cars is costly. Anytime you push a car to the limits its gonna break sooner or later. With the right know how and oney any motor will last. Its interesting, so many of these so called "ricers" are doing so much with their puny motors that people are afraid these used to be ricers will bring their technology to the v8 game. Lots of closed minded folks still live in a world of carbs and will never go back and think injection is the devil. Does it make it right? No! But will it be their opinion, yes! I will gladly put my mr2 up against any gto on this forum or any forum, and we can see what my 4 cyl can show. And i promise i won;t have my hood open after the drag strip, other than to show people after they come wondering what kind of motor is in that "rice rocket" I want a gto, i think they are awesome cars, i am getting one soon. 

But do *"I"*:
1. think they are "quick"? No not even close. 

2. think the car is peppy? Yes! 

3. have to look at the lines on the road and the trees flying by to tell if i am accellerating fast? Yes!

Not just the gto but any car under 500whp they just don;t feel fast to me anymore. But to *"you"* it may the fastest car you have ever driven. To each his own, but please leave it at that don't knock an import just because you see the local kids break their car. Look around, you will see a 10 sec honda with 150+ mph traps, are coming much more of a common occurence. 


Oh yeah by the way i love boost and when i get my gto (gonna go look at a 05 tomorrow, YAY!), expect lots of turbo parts to be available as well as a guide to turbo tuning.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Jeffs386 said:


> it seems that the rice lovers want to come here and say"well with only 5 grand in mods I can beat a GTO" thats funny because if I put the same 5 grand into the goat I will still beat the the fart can cars from Japan and have a much nicer car to boot
> I guess the question is for $30K what car(stock for stock,don't give me that crap about modding your cheap ass Honda ) beats a GTO?


I couldn't let this sit- sorry 6qts - 

I'll put $5k into a Talon and you put $5k into a GTO (retail prices, no "free hookups" from friends, etc.) and I'd put $2k on that run any given day . Actually, there is a Talon here with about $4200 into it that I will put $2k on the run any day of the week- just bring the car and money and I'll show you what fart cannon ricers can do... Yes, the GTO is much nicer, obviously- but it is also ~15 years newer.... That was probably the most ignorant comment so far here. Hell, my procharger was over 5K and it was far from "fast". Like turbo, I have had plenty of cars so my opinion of fast is different from others. 

I do agree with your last comment though- "what car stock for stock for $30k beats a GTO?"- you are right on that one, but don't think for one second that it is "quick" to everyone and is as capable as some other cars out there... I love my GTO and have no plans on parting with it for a long time, but I also know enough to not be as narrow minded as some.

To each his own, but don't trash talk when you don't know what you are talking about- you need to know your "enemy" a bit better .
Joe


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## Robertr2000 (Mar 25, 2006)

fergyflyer said:


> Kwiktsi, I disagree with your comment that a modded Mustang will beat the GTO dollar for dollar. It would take a supercharger on the 4.6 to get it to the performance level of a stock GTO. You have a supercharger on yours, and I'd bet you run into the 11's pretty good. To get a 4.6 Mod motor to that point your into the bottom end plus heads and cams. Now add heads and cam to your car and your running into the 10's. The Mustang is about a second behind. Period.
> 
> Now for the diamond star cars and the Civics, Integras, 240SX, and such, to get them into the GTO's performance range you have to modify them. If you are going to mod them you have to compare it to a modded GTO. At which point you now have GTO's running deep into the 10's and being driven on the street. A guy that I know that owns a speed shop has an 04 that he runs into the low 10's all the time and has a 9.8 pass with it. How deep is your pocket book????
> 
> ...


:agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree :agree


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## turbodude (Jul 31, 2006)

guess this thread died quick


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

turbodude said:


> guess this thread died quick


It lasted 2 weeks and brought up some good issues. Not bad!!


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

turbodude said:


> guess this thread died quick


I fully understand were you and *kwiktsi* are coming from because both of you have owned *MODDED* cars with insane hp/torque. So to you the GTO feels slow in stock and even modified trim. But understand were those who haven't owned cars with insane hp/torque are coming from. Maybe the GTO _*is*_ the most powerful and fastest *STOCK* car they've ever owned. 

So from what I've seen throughout this thread, the disagreement is mainly based on what *fast* cars individuals have owned. There are all types of fast cars out there. Whether you choose to dump cash into building a 9/10 second Talon or if you're satisfied with a 12.8 - 13.4 second stock GTO, it's your choice. So we really shouldn't slam the car we didn't choose to own or modify. So from now own I'll take a vow to not call Japanese makes "tin boxes" anymore. I think "sh!t can" is more fitting :rofl: Just Kidding! 

Enjoy your rides no matter what they are. :cheers


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> I fully understand were you and *kwiktsi* are coming from because both of you have owned *MODDED* cars with insane hp/torque. So to you the GTO feels slow in stock and even modified trim. But understand were those who haven't owned cars with insane hp/torque are coming from. Maybe the GTO _*is*_ the most powerful and fastest *STOCK* car they've ever owned.
> 
> So from what I've seen throughout this thread, the disagreement is mainly based on what *fast* cars individuals have owned. There are all types of fast cars out there. Whether you choose to dump cash into building a 9/10 second Talon or if you're satisfied with a 12.8 - 13.4 second stock GTO, it's your choice. So we really shouldn't slam the car we didn't choose to own or modify. So from now own I'll take a vow to not call Japanese makes "tin boxes" anymore. I think "sh!t can" is more fitting :rofl: Just Kidding!
> 
> Enjoy your rides no matter what they are. :cheers



Haha- right on!! As for the GTO being fast- ok, I just bought my 06 G6 GTP 6 speed as a daily driver- I now realize how fast the GTO is stock and how welcome the torque is lol. If someone's background is cars like this, the GTO is a rocket in comparison . My wife laughs because I am always keeping the thing in the 3-4k range just cruising because that is the only way the thing feels responsive to me!!! Funny though- driving like that, the MPG is about the same as my GTO lol. I do like it though, it is quick enough to not kill you pulling out in traffic, comfortable, the stock stereo kicks the GTO's stereo's ass (not to mention the XM) and the panoramic sunroof is pretty cool too. Overall it is a nice car and it makes for a nice driver on those days where I don't want to drive the GTO. Anyway, sorry for rambling- one thing led to another..
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> So from now own I'll take a vow to not call Japanese makes "tin boxes" anymore. I think "sh!t can" is more fitting :rofl: Just Kidding!


Man, it is bugging me now- there was a song in the 80's I remember on the radio about Imports, I just remember the recycled beer cans part, It's going to bug the hell out of me until I remember it!!!
Joe


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## aintmisbehavinn (Feb 9, 2006)

:agree


fergyflyer said:


> Kwiktsi, I disagree with your comment that a modded Mustang will beat the GTO dollar for dollar. It would take a supercharger on the 4.6 to get it to the performance level of a stock GTO. You have a supercharger on yours, and I'd bet you run into the 11's pretty good. To get a 4.6 Mod motor to that point your into the bottom end plus heads and cams. Now add heads and cam to your car and your running into the 10's. The Mustang is about a second behind. Period.
> 
> Now for the diamond star cars and the Civics, Integras, 240SX, and such, to get them into the GTO's performance range you have to modify them. If you are going to mod them you have to compare it to a modded GTO. At which point you now have GTO's running deep into the 10's and being driven on the street. A guy that I know that owns a speed shop has an 04 that he runs into the low 10's all the time and has a 9.8 pass with it. How deep is your pocket book????
> 
> ...


:agree


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## hardball75006 (Aug 4, 2006)

It's a 400hp V8 Of course it's going to be quick. Duh!


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## brazenorangegto (Sep 11, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> I couldn't let this sit- sorry 6qts -
> 
> I'll put $5k into a Talon and you put $5k into a GTO (retail prices, no "free hookups" from friends, etc.) and I'd put $2k on that run any given day . Actually, there is a Talon here with about $4200 into it that I will put $2k on the run any day of the week- just bring the car and money and I'll show you what fart cannon ricers can do... Yes, the GTO is much nicer, obviously- but it is also ~15 years newer.... That was probably the most ignorant comment so far here. Hell, my procharger was over 5K and it was far from "fast". Like turbo, I have had plenty of cars so my opinion of fast is different from others.
> 
> ...




Finally, at least 2 have said it. Stock for stock, for $30k, not much if any beats the GTO. There aren't many cars that come off the showroom floor with a 0 to 60 of 4.6( STI does for about $35k ). With the right amount of $$$ and know how any car can be made to go faster, thats just the nature of our existence. Personally, I didn't buy my GTO to do alot of modding it was fast enough as it came. We can all talk about how fast our cars are on here but the reality is, somewhere out there is someone who will always be faster.


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## goatboy_2004GTO (Sep 7, 2006)

My stock 04' with 350 horsepower is plenty enough for me. I'm not planning on dogging my car out on any strip or racing any idiots...my insurance is high enough already. 

Nothing in my opinion compares to the power, SOUND, and bada$$ness of an american muscle car. Thats my opinion and if you guys want to run 0-60 in like 2 seconds go by a lambo or something.

GTO FOEVA!!!!

and just like that other guy said... G. T. O. forum


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

*scares the hell out of me*

Is it quick? I got an '06 A4 with the 18" rims with the diablosport programmer (tune) and a 63 series k&n aircharger intake, very minor mods by all things considered, and i ran 160 (not topped out, got scared and let off cuz car seemed to be floating) it still had more left in it, no question, no where near redline, but the acceleration from 140 up is very slow. gotta have a nice long, safe, cop free, no on ramps portion of interstate to see much more then 160 in my goat. as far as the low end goes, i abolutely love red lights and making people's eyes bulge out when i make the cars ass end bounce up and down thanks to the auto tranny, mashing the break, and about 1/4 popping the throttle......and then of course the light goes green and the cars goes sideways, lol.


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## tysgto (Sep 11, 2006)

I have a 2006 stock and I beat a 2004 Subaru with mods.


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## brazenorangegto (Sep 11, 2006)

dustyminpin said:


> Is it quick? I got an '06 A4 with the 18" rims with the diablosport programmer (tune) and a 63 series k&n aircharger intake, very minor mods by all things considered, and i ran 160 (not topped out, got scared and let off cuz car seemed to be floating) it still had more left in it, no question, no where near redline, but the acceleration from 140 up is very slow. gotta have a nice long, safe, cop free, no on ramps portion of interstate to see much more then 160 in my goat. as far as the low end goes, i abolutely love red lights and making people's eyes bulge out when i make the cars ass end bounce up and down thanks to the auto tranny, mashing the break, and about 1/4 popping the throttle......and then of course the light goes green and the cars goes sideways, lol.




Top end on the GTO is 2nd to none. PERIOD


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Heh- glad to see this thread going again- some interesting points of view. Top end, the GTO is pretty sick for a stock car. Acceleration wise, yes it is good for stock, but depending on your definition of "quick"- it can leave some to be desired. The LSx engine has boat loads of potential though. 

On that note- we were out cruising in my buddy's Evo a couple of weeks back and got to toy with an 05 GTO with JBA's and corsa cat back- next light was "what the f*ck????" and we had a pretty cool conversation with him- pretty nice guy. He said he raced a highly modded evo before and beat it, so he was shocked to find that this car was relatively stock. It all depends on the driver and "well placed" mods- unfortunately, too many "ricers" own cars like this and give them a bad rep. The Evo was "stock" with a test pipe and boost controller and runs 12.40's with ~$50 in mods. There is also a single digit Evo in town which is a wild ride- but looks bone stock from the outside- but he does have mega $$$ into that one!!

I also got to toy with a stock 06 with my car last week- wow- I can't believe how far my car has come- the thing pulls so damn hard when it gets going. Just has the weight, IRS and traction against it right now . Pretty fun cars overall though.
Joe


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## arch&69 (Jul 9, 2006)

I just got my first ride in a 2006 GTO today, and it was sweet to say the least. Now I have a 69 GTO with about 450 hp and that 400hp sure feels good and close to what I got. Quick is an understatement. The car is fast. Period. Especially for its money. I mean car can hang with a lot of sports cars that cost two or three times the money. Now, my car could beat it in the quarter, but from a 60+ jump, I would not have a chance. That new goat just keeps on pullin. Just my experience.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Cool- an old school GTO owner that got to ride in a new GTO and has an honest opinion on it!!! I have had a few GTO enthusiasts say "they sure dont build them like they used to" and "I have a REAL GTO at home, you couldn't hang with it", blah blah blah.... People are so damned narrow minded... Glad to see you posted an honest perspective!!
Joe


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## HTRDLNCN (Jul 1, 2005)

Quick is relative to a persons previous experience.
Means totally different things to a guy that drives a 
Formula One race car than to a guy that drives an 85hp Civic..
Is my GTO quick? Not as quick as I would like but it gets the job done.
My last car was a nice big comfortable Lincoln that ran 11.7s,looked and sounded completly stock .. I pissed off more than one cocky Supra and Viper owner at the track.
For the GTO I did have to spend $20k for the car plus $2000 in mods to make it run 12.0s so not quite the bargain that Evo seems to be but then again 
I wouldnt be caught dead driving an Evo so I guess taste also has to be taken 
into consideration.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

*kwiktsi*, I have an honest question for you. Why is it that you always have to throw in a post about what some Japanese model car has done or can do to a GTO? And don't say you have a right to take jabs at the GTO because you own one. If you're married to an obese woman does that give you a right to say negative things about other obese women you see? No! Well you could but you may get your teeth kicked in by those women's significant other. So don't use that as a reason. The same applies here. We don't want to here about what those other cars can do to a goat. Besides, what does the title of this thread say? Not to get into one of our good ole back and forth sparring matches we've had in the past but an honest answer from you is all I want. Someone says the GTO, to them, is quick. Then you have to come back and say, *"depending on your definition of "quick"- it can leave some to be desired".* If someone say it's quick why not leave it at that. Not everyone, like you, have had the opportunity to own seriously modded, high horsepower/torque cars. So there's no need for you to steal someone's joy about a car that they say feels or is quick to them. 

Also it seems like you get on the defensive when somebody says something about your beloved Japanese cars. What's up with that? Realize, you're gonna get that here. *You're on a GTO Forum.*

Like I said, I'm not trying to start a flame with you. Hell I didn't even use the words "ricer" or "tin sh!t box" like I have in the past. I made a vow not to use those words and I'm standing behind that... FRIEND


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## arch&69 (Jul 9, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Cool- an old school GTO owner that got to ride in a new GTO and has an honest opinion on it!!! I have had a few GTO enthusiasts say "they sure dont build them like they used to" and "I have a REAL GTO at home, you couldn't hang with it", blah blah blah.... People are so damned narrow minded... Glad to see you posted an honest perspective!!
> Joe


Well I think a lot of the difference is that I just like to go fast. Plane and simple. I don't care what I'm in, a T-38 training,a C-130 doing combat evasion, or a car. And I don't care what kind of car it is. I personally don't like the Japanese cars, but I seriously respect the ones that make it into the 12s and below. Only because they are fast and can beat fast cars with better reputations, and you don't expect it. That's the new GTO. A grand prix looking car that moves like a C5 vette.

I've heard the same things about the new GTO that you have. "It has no personality", "It doesn't look fast", and the one you used, "They don't build em like they used to" The truth is, a lot of those guys are the older crowd that just doesn't get the principal behind the new cars. My dad included. I love the sleeper style of the GTO on the outside (but still sharp) and the "goat power" on the inside, and definately the nice interior. Sure they don't make the new stuff like the old stuff, but if they did, then we would all be driving 400hp cars that get 5-10mpg. Take into account all of the new technology, the ease of hooking a car to a computer, and tuning a car to get extra power. And you can still do most of the same bolt on upgrades as the old cars. Personally, I like both. Both have their strong points, and both have their weak points. And they both go fast.:rofl: 

Ps: We really need a smiley that has a peace sign.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

HTRDLNCN said:


> Quick is relative to a persons previous experience.
> Means totally different things to a guy that drives a
> Formula One race car than to a guy that drives an 85hp Civic..
> Is my GTO quick? Not as quick as I would like but it gets the job done.
> ...



I do agree, I could never own an Evo personally- too "boy ricer" for me, I like clean, smooth looking cars.
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

6QTS11OZ said:


> *kwiktsi*, I have an honest question for you. Why is it that you always have to throw in a post about what some Japanese model car has done or can do to a GTO? And don't say you have a right to take jabs at the GTO because you own one. If you're married to an obese woman does that give you a right to say negative things about other obese women you see? No! Well you could but you may get your teeth kicked in by those women's significant other. So don't use that as a reason. The same applies here. We don't want to here about what those other cars can do to a goat. Besides, what does the title of this thread say? Not to get into one of our good ole back and forth sparring matches we've had in the past but an honest answer from you is all I want. Someone says the GTO, to them, is quick. Then you have to come back and say, *"depending on your definition of "quick"- it can leave some to be desired".* If someone say it's quick why not leave it at that. Not everyone, like you, have had the opportunity to own seriously modded, high horsepower/torque cars. So there's no need for you to steal someone's joy about a car that they say feels or is quick to them.
> 
> Also it seems like you get on the defensive when somebody says something about your beloved Japanese cars. What's up with that? Realize, you're gonna get that here. *You're on a GTO Forum.*
> 
> Like I said, I'm not trying to start a flame with you. Hell I didn't even use the words "ricer" or "tin sh!t box" like I have in the past. I made a vow not to use those words and I'm standing behind that... FRIEND


No offense taken at all. Actually, the reason this particular Import scenario came up is because it was fresh on my mind and a pretty funny experience. I also mentioned my car vs. a stock on there too . 

I think other than that, when I do bring up or make Import comments, it is because I see a lot of people here making "ignorant" (not calling them stupid, just not experienced in what is easily achieved with a lot of Imports now) comments about Imports being slow, garbage, etc., so I make sure to get my jabs in where I can with that one . The sales and resale resale of Domestics is in the ****ter while the Imports are selling like hot cakes and hold value well, the quality is horrible on most domestics (the GTO is better, obviously), etc. so some of the comments are really flat out wrong. It just irks me when people have that narrow minded ******* mentality- my father and brother inlaw are die-hard Mopar people- "nothing but a dodge is allowed to park here- hence all the damn oil stains in the driveway. ****, open your eyes there is more out there...

I do make sure to get the "depends on your definition" comment in just to make sure no one is misinformed. Saying "hell yeah" is a personal opinion and I'd hate for someone to buy one based on that and think "wow, this sucks". I have met several former (all sold it due to lack of performance) and current GTO owners and a few who have test drove them that pretty much said they expected much more out of it with all the hype, but it was anemic. I just want to make sure that it is an honest description from an outsiders point of view.. 

Times have changed- there are a lot of very fast cars running the streets now- and if someone came from that past and asks a message board if the GTO will compete and they get an answer from someone who has owned 4 and 6 cylinder cars their whole life saying "**** yeah, it's the fastest thing I've ever owned"- does that make it the right answer to his question? I don't know, I guess I am just trying to keep it "unbiased" since I have experience with several different cars. I never looked at it as stealing somebody's joy from them, that is certainly not my intention. If they are happy with it, there is nothing wrong with that. If it fulfills their need for speed- even better- they won't have to worry about spending a ton of money modding it . When I put a reply up, it is more geared towards the next guy inquiring than poking at the post I am replying to.
Joe


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## vxssls1 (Sep 9, 2006)

banshee said:


> Comparing a heavily modified ricer to a gto is utterly stupid. A stock gto will do a 12.9 1/4 with slicks. I've seen ricers run low 12's, but the difference is that they over heat fast and they're on the side of the track with they're hoods up while the V8's hold down fort. Rice rockets don't last long, and believe me, I live in th rice rocket capital of the world. Two or three runs and they're toast.


true , over here the fastest unopen lsi (commodore)run 11.3 on slicks and is a daily driver , the guy is a real estate againt and uses thec car to drive customers around,this from a stock 5.7 with bolt on mods,try driving a worked 4 as a daily driver it would be a pig


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> Man, you people are hard core Import haters . Why does it need a "fart cannon" to be fast? That is like if someone were to say all domestic drivers carried their skoal on their back pocket, had Hijacker, Thrush, Hooker stickers all over thier car and glass packs with their Pro-Trac 50's on aluminum slots. Let's not stereo type here- it can go both ways, you know .
> 
> Joe


The GTO is an import.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

arch&69 said:


> Well I think a lot of the difference is that I just like to go fast. Plane and simple. I don't care what I'm in, a T-38 training,a C-130 doing combat evasion, or a car. And I don't care what kind of car it is. I personally don't like the Japanese cars, but I seriously respect the ones that make it into the 12s and below. Only because they are fast and can beat fast cars with better reputations, and you don't expect it. That's the new GTO. A grand prix looking car that moves like a C5 vette.
> 
> I've heard the same things about the new GTO that you have. "It has no personality", "It doesn't look fast", and the one you used, "They don't build em like they used to" The truth is, a lot of those guys are the older crowd that just doesn't get the principal behind the new cars. My dad included. I love the sleeper style of the GTO on the outside (but still sharp) and the "goat power" on the inside, and definately the nice interior. Sure they don't make the new stuff like the old stuff, but if they did, then we would all be driving 400hp cars that get 5-10mpg. Take into account all of the new technology, the ease of hooking a car to a computer, and tuning a car to get extra power. And you can still do most of the same bolt on upgrades as the old cars. Personally, I like both. Both have their strong points, and both have their weak points. And they both go fast.:rofl:
> 
> Ps: We really need a smiley that has a peace sign.



I agree- I like a fast car no matter who makes it .

I am not one to really care for brand or origin myself- old new, import, whatever- I just like various cars for their performance potential, not their performance out of the box though. There are a lot of strong performers out there that would get their butts handed to them with a few inexpensive, well placed mods on other cars.

Personally, if I were to do another 69 Camaro (I miss mine  ), it would have an LSx motor though since I love the late model EFI powerplants. Heh, I've also thought about building a 3rd gen f body with a worked 2.0 Talon motor in it just to piss people off- and a 10 second jap powered 4 cylinder camaro would do just that.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

vxssls1 said:


> true , over here the fastest unopen lsi (commodore)run 11.3 on slicks and is a daily driver , the guy is a real estate againt and uses thec car to drive customers around,this from a stock 5.7 with bolt on mods,try driving a worked 4 as a daily driver it would be a pig


Just curious what you mean by it would be a pig? Turbo lag? Granted, it does not have the bottom end torque (obviously) that a V8 would have, but I know of a few 10 second and a couple single digit turbo 4 cars that are daily driven in traffic with the AC on and get upper 20's for MPG still . They do have lag, but that's what the shifter is for .
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

mumrah said:


> The GTO is an import.


Good point- but that also explains why the buld quality is superior to pretty much the rest of the GM line . Pretty sad that an almost decade old Aussie car is one of the best built modern GM cars  
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

arch&69 said:


> A grand prix looking car that moves like a C5 vette.


I missed this in my reply- that is what I loved about the GTO when I drove it for the first time "hehe- it resembles any other mid sized pontiac coupe but the shifter moves when you jump on it letting you know it is a V8 RWD car"  . It had that "it could be the new grand prix" feel, but there was no mistaking it's "heart" when you hit the throttle- and I really liked that about it. Just needed some tweaking for my preference .


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## mumrah (Apr 3, 2005)

*Private Disputes*

I understand that we have disagreements in opinions but when they get so long and drawn out could you maybe PM them instead of 5 pages in a thread.

Please kwiktsi and 6QTS11OZ can't we all get along. Off the showroom floor the GTO is very quick compared to other cars off the showroom.

Next question was about modded "Ricers" being so common. I use that term to identify them not as a put down. Who can really put down a 4 cylinder car that can be modded to over 900hp. 

I know that me as a GTO owner, I am very jealous of the availability of mods that Ricers have compared to GTO owners. But that is a matter of economics. With 100 times more cars in the market, Ricers have a larger demand. Plus they have been around for many more years. Not to mention the lower initial cost makes their cars more attractive to mod. 

What I love about my car is what I hate about it. I don't want a car that everyone has also. But when I go to buy upgrades I should know that because it is rare, I am going to pay a premium for my upgrades. So you cannot compare dollar for dollar upgrades because the same upgrade costs more on a GTO.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

mumrah said:


> I understand that we have disagreements in opinions but when they get so long and drawn out could you maybe PM them instead of 5 pages in a thread.
> 
> Please kwiktsi and 6QTS11OZ can't we all get along. Off the showroom floor the GTO is very quick compared to other cars off the showroom.
> 
> ...


6qts and I get along just fine. He inquires and I answer or vice-versa no blood loss there. 

It isn't so much quantity of vehicles that keeps mods cheap (while it does help), it is also known that people will gouge those they know will pay- been happening for years. The GTO group, for the most part, is an older, more mature (usually ), less DIY and more financially competent crowd than the typical 18 year old import owner- IMHO, that is reflected in the prices charged for a lot of the parts. You get a car where most of the people are the DIY Hot rodder types withg the "I'll just make it myself" attitude and look at the price difference.. Look at the price for say an aftermarket exhaust on a Turbo Volvo compared to a Honda- come on now- that is not quantity affecting the price! Once one is made and the jig is welded up, it doesn't matter if you sell one or 5000- your up front investment is already returned.

They know who will pay a premium and they are sure to get it from them.
Joe


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## HTRDLNCN (Jul 1, 2005)

This is off the original topic but directed toward the last post:

Actually not all of us old guys have money,,Im 43 and a cheap mfer..
I paid $19.8k for my car. Yeah its an 04 and had 2500kmiles on it..
Beats paying 32k for a new one plus I NEVER planned on going back to a dealer even if the engine fell out of the car. 
So far I have less than 2k in mods and I did all of them myself.
There are guys with 2-3x as much in mods that havent run as fast.
Hell guys are paying $1k for a fuggin CATBACK! Something PROVEN 
to not add more than 5-10hp in the best cases.People,its a coupleof mufflers and some pipe,they are ripping you off in the worst way,its Unreal!
I even put together a Vortech supercharger kit for under $2k
just to prove that it can be done and to show exactly your point.
I ended up selling it because I want to go turbo. Once my shop is done
Ill show you dont need to pay $5-9k to own a damn turbo kit.
The parts manufacturers are raping the GTO guys blind.
I posted a ton of times that the header companies were raping
us. Noone agreed. Now Pacesetter is making coated quality longtubes 
for $399 whoch have already proven to fit great and make the same power
as the $1000 ones everyone else is selling. 
example here:
http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104219
I think as the GTO gets older and the prices come down youll see
more and more companies comeout with cheaper parts.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

See, those of us who have been around a while see what is going on . That being said, I did buy Kooks for my car, only because I have always liked their quality and they are stainless compared to the Pacesetter- plus, they are 1 7/8. The Procharger kit for my car was $5k- I bought it- but was not happy about it, that is insane! There is nothing in there to make it worth over $3500 and even that is a very good profit for them. If I had more time and wasn't in a rush to get the car done, I would have just built my own turbo kit- could have done it for less than half what the procharger and headers cost and made more power . I just didn't want this to be a custom fabbed "race" car, I wanted it to be a bolt on setup. I still may sell the blower over the winter and go turbo though, we'll see.
Joe


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> No offense taken at all. Actually, the reason this particular Import scenario came up is because it was fresh on my mind and a pretty funny experience. I also mentioned my car vs. a stock on there too .
> 
> I think other than that, when I do bring up or make Import comments, it is because I see a lot of people here making "ignorant" (not calling them stupid, just not experienced in what is easily achieved with a lot of Imports now) comments about Imports being slow, garbage, etc., so I make sure to get my jabs in where I can with that one . The sales and resale resale of Domestics is in the ****ter while the Imports are selling like hot cakes and hold value well, the quality is horrible on most domestics (the GTO is better, obviously), etc. so some of the comments are really flat out wrong. It just irks me when people have that narrow minded ******* mentality- my father and brother inlaw are die-hard Mopar people- "nothing but a dodge is allowed to park here- hence all the damn oil stains in the driveway. ****, open your eyes there is more out there...
> 
> ...


I understand where you're coming from a little bit clearer now. Thanks for the response :cheers


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

36Goat said:


> Does the GTO run good? Every video I see seems to be an 04-06 goat getting its but kicked. Are they just bad drivers or slow cars.


Most people who go to a drag strip have modified vehicles, most of them are heavily modified. The GTO is a sub 12 second car right out of the box with the right driver. Mod the GTO like some of these other guys mod their cars and you'll have a sub 11 second car, if mot better. Stock 12.9 - 13.1 seconds is by no means a slow car. Work on the traction issues and the GTO will really improve at the track. Everyone will pretty much agree that the 0 - 60 foot times for the GTO are less than desired. My .02


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## Meecrob (Nov 19, 2006)

Yes this car is fast.... Also about this hole ricer crap. Evos/Stis are totally different cars you cant even compare them to us... They are 4 banger sedans... and we are v8 coups... We have a nice ride they have a not so nice stiff ride...The only thing we share is 1/4 times and thats all but thats not even really true. Not even price i picked my New 06 up for 8k less then i could have picked up either one of them. I drove all three and i bought the gto because of the ride, feel and interior. I could have handled the ride in both being 19 but who wants to get beat up while driving a car....


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## cammed06 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Is it quick?*

Quick? No. It's F***ing FAST. 

You're driving a 3900 POUND 4 seater vette. You have a dream car of most. Even the mustang is 400-500 pounds lighter. It takes 400 horsepower to make the GTO faster. Use the horsepower, weight, ET formula to figure out how much horsepower it takes to make how much weight get a certain ET (1/4). For us, 3900 lbs, it should take approximately 611 rwhp to go 10.80. Approximately 570 rwhp to go 11.00. I found the formula online at BMR's site and this is considering that it is being placed to the ground appropriately (suspension upgrades and all). 

Depending on budget you can make anything faster, but the GTO has the FATA** overweight handicap which is what makes it so cool. There is a place where the amount of horsepower and gear you have meet in the perfect spot (the happy medium) where neither hurt you, but with that being said you have run out of gear in certain amount of distance (1/4 mile). So the only way to get faster at that point is make it lighter. Refer to BMR's nitrous 04 goat.


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## fullarmor2 (Mar 1, 2006)

The new GTO is awesome. Like someone else on this post said, you feel like your driving a vette. Particularly regarding straight line performance. And whats more, you have very nice comfort for cruising or "touring" in addition to the vette feel. This thing is just plain sweet on the highway. You can pass just about anybody like nothing. You WILL like it!
One more thing, I have had mine for going on a year now. In February. The only issues I have had, have been minor and are taken care of. I'm enjoying this GTO now like I did when I picked it up, or more.


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

hahah why is it when "imports" are mentioned, people only tend to mention civics, integs, and even only turbo-4s? Where are the big boys at like Supra TTs, RX7 TTs? A stock supra is an extremely fast car...let alone basic bolt ons turning it into a beast.


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## angusGTO3 (May 2, 2006)

*Hey everyone come look how cool and diverse i am. YAY*



kwiktsi said:


> Man, you people are hard core Import haters . Why does it need a "fart cannon" to be fast? That is like if someone were to say all domestic drivers carried their skoal on their back pocket, had Hijacker, Thrush, Hooker stickers all over thier car and glass packs with their Pro-Trac 50's on aluminum slots. Let's not stereo type here- it can go both ways, you know .
> 
> I have no love for any specific brand, model, origin, etc. I just know what potential is in any car and don't narrow mindedly call the other guys junk. I do admit, there are more ricer wannabes than fast guys driving Imports- and I have this deep-seeded hatred for ricer wannabes, but I still respect a fast car no matter what it is. There are just as many morons drivng GTO's, Camaros, Vette's, etc. that could ruin the brand image if that was your sole opinion of the owners just as easily as ricers driving imports.
> Joe


Ok man first off i am not a hater of ricers in general, however, you talk about how we are stereotyping people. First i think you need to get a grip on that words meaning:it simply means Assumed characteristics on a large group of individuals whose beliefs, habits, and realities often disagree with the imposed image. So from my experience everyone in the tuner world, and this is not a guess this is an ideal based on everyday occurrences, has a fart can of some sort. They all sound like chubaka getting raped, and for the most part piss of anyone within the general area (and if you dont believe me, after a car with a can exhaust drives by at 50 mph in first gear as always, notice how many people are standing around with the god that person is ignorant look). 

I am also not denying the fact that on any given day a honda could blow my doors off. I am, however, saying that most of the people on this forum bought the gto for a few reasons 1. it has an ls2 2. six speed trans 3. makes all the right noises 4. nice comfortable interior. So what im trying to say right there is that if we wanted a 10 second tin can that sounds like a large hairy animal getting molested we would have went that way. The gto is quick, comfortable, easy on the eyes, and a classic brought back from years ago. So we do not stereotype we just view cars differently, and me personally find the tuner scene to be a fad and a waste of money, but hey everyone has their own opinion and ideals.


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## AA GTO SP (Nov 11, 2006)

No, the GTO is slow. So go on another forum and talk about how slow the gto is. While you're at it, go on a ford forum and ask if the mustang is fast...
It is opinion. GTO 13 seconds stock. If you consider 13 second cars quick, then yes it is quick. 

This is just another spark that ignites the arguments of what car is faster or blah blah. It is an opinion question. The end.


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## 06_4Me (Mar 3, 2007)

AA GTO took the words right out of my mouth. The question *"Is the GTO quick" *is like asking *"How nice is the color green?".*

Every major auto magazine has the 05/06 GTO at sub 5 second 0-60 times. The stock quarter mile times are plastered everywhere as well. The answer to the question is, if you think those times reflect a "quick" car, then it is, if you don't think so, then it isn't. 

It is 100% subjective, and comparing to ricers or any other car is irrelevant to the question.


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

still wit the import hating. (referring to the previous page of this thread). A taste of sound is all based on personal preference. I know people who dread the sound of a fast 4cylinder NA or T.I know others who think V8s are annoying as well. There are some fast imports out there that deserve their respect, and IMO: don't belong under the "IMPORT TUNING" category. But the fact that theyre jap, they will always belong under that bracket. ie: the Lancer Evolution is a low 13, POSSIBLY high 12 second car(has been done with great drivers completely bone stock). The car's looks are biased to taste. Has 1 hell of a strong motor, 4 doors for comfort and LOTS of legroom for passengers. Not to mention the way the car screams SURPRISE!! at around 3000rpm's, launches like a wild animal, and can hit corners like its a 4 door Elise. Saying the import scene is a waste of money is....no comment.

Whether you hate the imports or not, you can't deny the engineering behind some of these parts...HKS turbochargers, Volk 1 piece forged wheels, Project Mu Big brake kits, Bride racing seats, Takata racing harnesses, and so on.. Just cuz these parts are bright and look like it belongs in a candy store doesn't make them a waste of money. If i can recall i believe the domestic scene uses the "import scene" parts as well :/


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## 06BLUEGTO (Feb 27, 2007)

you have to look at this way...Tuning and a performance PCM will cost you more than a GTO..a good racing import computer could cost anywhere from 600.00-1900.00


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

face it...the import scene tends to have people with bigger pockets than the domestic boys. Its not surprising to see a guy own a sti with a Mercedes parked next to it at home. So as a marketing gimmick, the industry marks up the prices where they feel they'll make money. Not to be stereotypical(well i guess I am)...but asians tend to have bigger pockets than the typical domestic guy


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

06BLUEGTO said:


> you have to look at this way...Tuning and a performance PCM will cost you more than a GTO..a good racing import computer could cost anywhere from 600.00-1900.00


Lol, go price a Big Stuff 3 or an other "good racing" domestic computer. Where do you guys get this stuff from, you're cracking me up .


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Skyline0586 said:


> face it...the import scene tends to have people with bigger pockets than the domestic boys. Its not surprising to see a guy own a sti with a Mercedes parked next to it at home. So as a marketing gimmick, the industry marks up the prices where they feel they'll make money. Not to be stereotypical(well i guess I am)...but asians tend to have bigger pockets than the typical domestic guy


Hey, there are some seriously ballin domestic drivers with their 81 Malibu's being towed by their 84 Suburbans at my local track cracking off some violent 14 second runs, so don't knock em ! However, there are some pretty deep pockets in the GTO (and Vette) community too, so this argument isn't really fitting here. 

I wouldn't waste my breath if I were you though, I gave up on this argument a long time ago. I think it will take a run in with a well setup (NON RICER) DSM or something to make some of these guys see da light .
Joe


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## Fat_Nick (Mar 14, 2007)

As a "Reborn" GM owner. I know that to have made 350+whp on my '99 Civic Si. It would have cost me over $7K in custom motor work from Jotech (which includes a custom t3/t4 turbo). To be honest I wasn't even thinking about buying my GTO until after I took her for a test drive (This was last Sat), from then on I was hooked! Monday at 4:35pm I was at my bank signing papers. I haven't regretted one second of trading my Civic in on my Goat, even being called a traitor by my import friends didn't bother me one bit. I remind them that I have more torque than you have hp B!TCHES!:rofl:


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Fat_Nick said:


> As a "Reborn" GM owner. I know that to have made 350+whp on my '99 Civic Si. It would have cost me over $7K in custom motor work from Jotech (which includes a custom t3/t4 turbo). To be honest I wasn't even thinking about buying my GTO until after I took her for a test drive (This was last Sat), from then on I was hooked! Monday at 4:35pm I was at my bank signing papers. I haven't regretted one second of trading my Civic in on my Goat, even being called a traitor by my import friends didn't bother me one bit. I remind them that I have more torque than you have hp B!TCHES!:rofl:


That all depends on if you do it yourself or pay for "packages". If you have to pay someone to do it all, it doesn't matter what car you build- it will get expensive fast! Either way, no arguing that you made the right move there .


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

Well as for the GTO surprising me, i'm one of those guys that didn't fall in love with it at first sight or drive. The only reason I wanted the car is because of the comfort factor (even tho i came from a BMW 745Li before this car), i was still fiending for more of a racecar with comfort...and that seats atleast 4 people so that already knocked the C5 z06 out of the picture (i LOVE that car). The GTO seats are one of the worst features of the car IMO. Not comfortable at all. I drove my car 14hrs from CA to WA and the seats were absolutely terrible. The only car that i can recall myself jumping into and instantly falling in love after 1 drive has to be the Evolution because it was so much different from any other car i've ever driven. Although that was a few years back, i still remmeber the first drive in that car.


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## Fat_Nick (Mar 14, 2007)

kwiktsi said:


> That all depends on if you do it yourself or pay for "packages". If you have to pay someone to do it all, it doesn't matter what car you build- it will get expensive fast! Either way, no arguing that you made the right move there .



Oh I know what you mean. I had basicly had drawn up blueprints to the specific motor I wanted Kenny to build for me, b/c I honestly lack the tools (and skill at turnin' wrenches) to do a complete engine overhaul/turbo upgrade.


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## 06_4Me (Mar 3, 2007)

Skyline0586 said:


> The GTO seats are one of the worst features of the car IMO. Not comfortable at all..


And this underscores how everything about a car, from power, to handling, to comfort is subjective. One of the reasons, after raw power, that I bought my 06 GTO is specifically because of seat comfort. I get backaches in some of my other cars but not in the GTO.


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

I do have lower back aches and go to a chiropractor reguarly. The reason being the GTO is uncomfortable is because it lacks lumbar support and the leather is so hard. PS: sorta off topic but if you want to feel some nice leather sit in a Bentley GT continental. That leather is top of the line stuff!


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Skyline0586 said:


> I do have lower back aches and go to a chiropractor reguarly. The reason being the GTO is uncomfortable is because it lacks lumbar support and the leather is so hard. PS: sorta off topic but if you want to feel some nice leather sit in a Bentley GT continental. That leather is top of the line stuff!


Lol, and that car used is about 5X what a new GTO went for . They are sweet rides though and sound WICKED for a Bentley!
Joe


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

Skyline0586 said:


> Well as for the GTO surprising me, i'm one of those guys that didn't fall in love with it at first sight or drive. The only reason I wanted the car is because of the comfort factor (even tho i came from a BMW 745Li before this car), i was still fiending for more of a racecar with comfort...and that seats atleast 4 people so that already knocked the C5 z06 out of the picture (i LOVE that car). The GTO seats are one of the worst features of the car IMO. Not comfortable at all. I drove my car 14hrs from CA to WA and the seats were absolutely terrible. The only car that i can recall myself jumping into and instantly falling in love after 1 drive has to be the Evolution because it was so much different from any other car i've ever driven. Although that was a few years back, i still remmeber the first drive in that car.


Then sell it to someone who will love her. Somebodys trash is another mans treasure. My treasure is in the driveway right now.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

alittlebitoldschool said:


> Then sell it to someone who will love her. Somebodys trash is another mans treasure. My treasure is in the driveway right now.


You know, no offense- but I just don't get this "then sell it to someone who does" attitude people get when they complain about quirks in the GTO. There is a lot I don't like about the car, and a lot I do- I'll be damned if I'm going to sell it to "someone who will love her" because there are things I don't like about it- I'm going to beat the holy living daylights out of it until I am through with it- that's what I bought it for and the TT setup will make it that much more fun . It will end up a gutted drag car before I sell it just because I don't appreciate it as much as someone else might. Different strokes I guess, but it is only a car..
Joe


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

kwiktsi said:


> You know, no offense- but I just don't get this "then sell it to someone who does" attitude people get when they complain about quirks in the GTO. There is a lot I don't like about the car, and a lot I do- I'll be damned if I'm going to sell it to "someone who will love her" because there are things I don't like about it- I'm going to beat the holy living daylights out of it until I am through with it- that's what I bought it for and the TT setup will make it that much more fun . It will end up a gutted drag car before I sell it just because I don't appreciate it as much as someone else might. Different strokes I guess, but it is only a car..
> Joe[/


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> ...it is only a car..
> Joe


Tell that to my wallet, and my obsession!


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

alittlebitoldschool said:


> Well i've saved my money, and finally bought my dream car. I dont like the way you treat your car, and the atitude you have towards it. I'm not rich i make roughly 64k a year, and with a mortage, and bills, yes this is my dream car. I'll continue to dislike anybody that dosent appreciate this automobile, or beats the hell out of it because they are rich enough to buy something else. I've worked for everything i have, and no silver spoon in this Oklahoman's mouth. So kiss my ass rich boy. I have a feeling there are alot more like me on this forum than people like you.


Heh, rich- I make payments on my car just like many others. I am far from rich. I just bought this car for a purpose- it is not my ultimate dream car (but it is my dream car that I can afford at this time), but a toy to me. My dream car is probably a 911 Turbo, which I am working towards one day . You can dislike me all you want, bottom line which a lot of people seem to miss is the fact that when someone owns something- it is theirs to do what they want with and nobody has the right to tell them otherwise.

My car was bought with the intention of making a fast car out of it. It was mainly only bought because of the LSx motor, 6 speed and RWD (and I have loved the looks since I first saw one). I would have just built another F body- but EVERYBODY has a built F body. I have my APS turbo kit coming Monday and will be aiming for ~650 whp like my last GTO and slowly building it from there to make "real" power . It is what I enjoy and that is what i am going to do with my car. I really don't senselessly beat the crap out of it, that was to get the point across- but I do drive it hard and will continue to do so.
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

LYNMUP said:


> Tell that to my wallet, and my obsession!


Lol, tell me about it. Cars are worse than drugs I think... Luckily I was budgeted for the payment on my last one which was $565 a month (negative equity), this one I got used and my payment is only around $400, so that leaves me some extra mod money too .


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

alittlebitoldschoool....you speak on attitude? you seem to have the WORST. I pay my GTOs payments, i negotiated the dealership for a better price, i drive and fill it up myself. I am not rich myself, but this isnt necessarily the best car i've owned. As stated above from a realistic point of view, just because there are somethings i dislike about the car, obviously there are more pros than cons which is why i bought this car. As for myself, i dont keep cars longer than 6-7 months because I get bored of them so lets see how long the GTO can be parked in my driveway. I wouldn't consider a Pontiac GTO a dream car of mine. My dreams are a bit bigger than that and I set higher goals for myself. I plan to own a used C6 Z06, 04 CL500, or E55 AMG within the next 3 years. Note I am in my early 20s and have plans and strong work ethic to achieve these realistic goals. Now when I say i want to own these cars, I don't mean i want to be driving those types of cars and living in a 1 bedroom studio eating $4 meals. :/ This is my 5th car and i have not once went upside down on a loan even tho i only owned cars for 5-8 month periods

PS: the seats still suck :cool


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

kwiktsi said:


> Lol, and that car used is about 5X what a new GTO went for . They are sweet rides though and sound WICKED for a Bentley!
> Joe


try going WOT from a deadstop. That V12-TT pulls insane


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

I'm sorry, I couldn't get this out of my head- the "rich boy" comments are pretty ignorant. A- I make about the same as you do (though my wife actually makes 6 figures ) and B- why would somebody insult someone else because of their affluence? I am comfortable with my life how it is, however- you are in full control over what you do with your life. If you are not happy with what you make, why insult someone because you think they have more than you? That ranks right up there with telling someone what to do with their property. I take a lot of pride in my car and the workmanship I perform on it, I keep it as clean as possible for living in Pennsyltucky and take very good car of it overall. Damn straight I drive it hard- that's what I bought it for. If it breaks, I fix it myself- I don't pay someone to fix it. I don't see how anyone other than my wife should have any say in what I do with my stuff and even her say is limited .
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Skyline0586 said:


> try going WOT from a deadstop. That V12-TT pulls insane


Never been in one, but a guy I knew in Albany had one- VERY nice ride!!! I moved before I got a chance to go for a ride in it .
Joe


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## putergod (Jan 12, 2006)

I guess I'm definately too poor to own one.. I make less than 50k, lol.

However... For the money, the GTO is the fastest thing out there. Please find me another car for 30k or less than can beat it stock for stock. There isn't one.. period. Also... you want to talk about money? The GTO isn't even all about speed. The build quality is top notch. The car is beautiful, and the interior is damn near perfect. I wasn't even going to buy one till I drove it "for ****s and giggles". Big mistake...

A Honda Civic SI, full loaded, cost what? About 28k. A fully loaded GTO can be had for about 32k. It would easily take 4k in mods on that Civic just to keep up with the GTO (and still be beaten by it), and STILL be the "lesser car".

And before you start talking about getting a used POS for 5k, we are talking BRAND NEW... the GTO hasn't been out long enough to get one that cheap.


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## LYNMUP (Nov 26, 2005)

kwiktsi said:


> Lol, tell me about it. Cars are worse than drugs I think... Luckily I was budgeted for the payment on my last one which was $565 a month (negative equity), this one I got used and my payment is only around $400, so that leaves me some extra mod money too .


Tell me about it! Mine is $556 and to top it off, I got an '07 G6 GTP for the wife. Both negative equity! Gotta pay to play.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

LYNMUP said:


> Tell me about it! Mine is $556 and to top it off, I got an '07 G6 GTP for the wife. Both negative equity! Gotta pay to play.


Hah- funny you say that- I have an 06 G6 GTP that I bought as my daily driver- you want to talk about negative- I traded in my 05 Ram 1500 that I bought with about $8k negative during the "employee pricing"- and we all know what employee pricing did to trade in values... Don't even have to do the math to cringe at that thought  .. It was just worth it to me since the GTO was more of a play toy and everything around here is at least a half hour away which made the truck impractical for every day use. At least we got 0% on the G6- but that thing has to be worth at least half what I owe on it!! If I can get past the damn annoying wind noise from the Panoramic roof, it is a pretty nice car overall. I plan on doing some tuning and such on the G6 with HP Tuners when it gets here too lol. Getting it for the GTO and it has enough points to do another car, so I'm going to tinker a bit. Oh well, it's only money right- us rich boys can swing it .


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

putergod said:


> I guess I'm definately too poor to own one.. I make less than 50k, lol.


Yes, what are you doing even breathing our air, vagrant? lol- sorry, had to. 

Your other points are very good and true. for the price, the GTO is probably the fastest thing out there, but as mentioned, "is the GTO quick?" is a matter of opinion and that was the original question. That is why all the replies vary so much. If it were "is it the fastest new car available in the $30k range- EVERYONE would have said yes .

It doesn't matter how much you make, what your net worth is, whether you owe money or paid cash, etc.- everyone bought this car for one reason and that is to enjoy it- and even "enjoying it" is a matter of opinion and personal preference. For some, it may be a leisurely cruise through the local beach, others- a nice long open road drive and others yet may enjoy modifying and drag racing it- it is all of their rights to do as they please .


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## Skyline0586 (Feb 24, 2007)

For 30k it might quite possibly the quickest car on the market. Only car that WILL pose a threat, is the same car mentioned throughout this thread. The lancer Evo which is like 29-32. The RS is cheaper and is faster due to the lightweight. As for me..i dont buy new cars..complete waste of money. For under 30k, i'd go for a C5 Z06


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Skyline0586 said:


> For 30k it might quite possibly the quickest car on the market. Only car that WILL pose a threat, is the same car mentioned throughout this thread. The lancer Evo which is like 29-32. The RS is cheaper and is faster due to the lightweight. As for me..i dont buy new cars..complete waste of money. For under 30k, i'd go for a C5 Z06


The Evo is a quick car stock and takes VERY little to get low 12's-high 11's out of it- the best bang for the buck out there IMHO. However, stock vs's stock- while the ET may be close, the GTO will walk all over the Evo in MPH. The STi is formidable also but a little more $$$ and I love my DSM's though- I have been around them since around 90-91


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

Sorry for the stupid coments. Drank tooooo much crown & coke, after a call from the ex wife wanting more money every month. Forgive my ignorance it was booze talking.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

I could see how that would be a stressful situation . Good luck with that- but maybe you should leave the drunken posts to the twenty-somethings .


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## Sabraxas (Oct 29, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> I could see how that would be a stressful situation . Good luck with that- but maybe you should leave the drunken posts to the twenty-somethings .


[email protected] right! Usually when I'm drunk, I'm making too much of an @$$ of myself to actually spend time in front of the computer.


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

kwiktsi said:


> I could see how that would be a stressful situation . Good luck with that- but maybe you should leave the drunken posts to the twenty-somethings .


Thanks dad.


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## angusGTO3 (May 2, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Heh, rich- I make payments on my car just like many others. I am far from rich. I just bought this car for a purpose- it is not my ultimate dream car (but it is my dream car that I can afford at this time), but a toy to me. My dream car is probably a 911 Turbo, which I am working towards one day . You can dislike me all you want, bottom line which a lot of people seem to miss is the fact that when someone owns something- it is theirs to do what they want with and nobody has the right to tell them otherwise.
> 
> My car was bought with the intention of making a fast car out of it. It was mainly only bought because of the LSx motor, 6 speed and RWD (and I have loved the looks since I first saw one). I would have just built another F body- but EVERYBODY has a built F body. I have my APS turbo kit coming Monday and will be aiming for ~650 whp like my last GTO and slowly building it from there to make "real" power . It is what I enjoy and that is what i am going to do with my car. I really don't senselessly beat the crap out of it, that was to get the point across- but I do drive it hard and will continue to do so.
> Joe


I hope your motor hand grenades into bits. Im with just about everyone on here when i say that you are a little bucket O' rice boy who is spoiled, and treat your car like ass. Remember when you talk about your crappy car you are insulting everyone on this forum. We own these cars for a reason, yes they arent our dream cars but they are ours and we worked hard for them, we don't want to sit here and listen to you and skyline boy gripe about what a piece of crap it is. If all you guys have to say is im gonna beat the crap outta this thing, and complain about it. GET OUT OF HERE YOUR NOT WANTED! However, dont take us saying these things as bashing you man. I respect the hell out of evo's and sti's, but they arent ricers they are high end sports cars! I just hate the tuner mentality man. They all sit around and talk about how much faster they are than domestics and then when we race and beat them they all have some excuse. Like my v-tec is not working right, i missed seven gears, or my flux capacitor is out. lol. i think thats why tuners get such a bad wrap. But for the above man just don't talk about the car like it doesnt mean anything to you because it does to us.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

alittlebitoldschool said:


> Thanks dad.


It was a joke, meaning we're getting older, blah blah.. Hence the smiley.. Nevermind. Take it how you want...


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

kwiktsi said:


> It was a joke, meaning we're getting older, blah blah.. Hence the smiley.. Nevermind. Take it how you want...


Man loosen up, and take a pill or something.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

angusGTO3 said:


> I hope your motor hand grenades into bits. Im with just about everyone on here when i say that you are a little bucket O' rice boy who is spoiled, and treat your car like ass. Remember when you talk about your crappy car you are insulting everyone on this forum. We own these cars for a reason, yes they arent our dream cars but they are ours and we worked hard for them, we don't want to sit here and listen to you and skyline boy gripe about what a piece of crap it is. If all you guys have to say is im gonna beat the crap outta this thing, and complain about it. GET OUT OF HERE YOUR NOT WANTED! However, dont take us saying these things as bashing you man. I respect the hell out of evo's and sti's, but they arent ricers they are high end sports cars! I just hate the tuner mentality man. They all sit around and talk about how much faster they are than domestics and then when we race and beat them they all have some excuse. Like my v-tec is not working right, i missed seven gears, or my flux capacitor is out. lol. i think thats why tuners get such a bad wrap. But for the above man just don't talk about the car like it doesnt mean anything to you because it does to us.


First- if my motor grenades, *for me*- so what- it is a motor. Maybe it's because I am a mechanic by trade and have been building and playing with cars my whole life, it isn't a huge deal to me- broken parts = excuse to upgrade... Yes, it is a pretty big expense, and one I honestly could not deal with right now, but it is one I knew the chances of encountering when I chose to mod and the car would have to sit until it is done.

Second, I don't recall ever saying anything about my car being "crappy"- just slow (and I'm not comparing it to all other cars out there, just slow for my liking) and that is being fixed, the twin turbo kit is here now, showed up yesterday . I would never say "eew, you got a GTO- what a pos" or insult anyone in such a way regardless of what their purchase was- except maybe a Scion XB lol.

Heh, I had a lot more here, but then I realized you were pretty cool in the rest of your post and deleted it . Anyway, I agree- I hate the "ricer" and "tuner" mentalities to no end and they can get my blood boiling worse than my wife, but that does not mean everyone with a fast import is a ricer. I love my GTO for what it is, but it was bought as a play toy for me. There are people that take brand new Ferrari's and beat the piss out of them, wreck them within a week, etc. and just run out and get another one like it was nothing- sure, I'm jealous, but it is their car to do what they want with and I would never insult them for it (other than maybe calling them a moron for wrecking it so soon )...
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

alittlebitoldschool said:


> Man loosen up, and take a pill or something.


That was loose. It went over your head. Apparently you misunderstand my humor. No biggie. Hmm, "I was drunk" "take a pill"- do I see a pattern here  - another joke, get it :cheers ?
Joe


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## Sabraxas (Oct 29, 2006)

I don't mean to be an @$$ (I just am by nature  ) kwiktsi, but do you make friends this quickly everywhere you go??? :lol:


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Haha, funny you say that- some of my best friends are people I banged heads with first and gained respect for each other through it lol. However, I do have a hard time on message boards though since I just type it out in black and white and a lot of people prefer it sugar coated . 

I associate with mostly car guys who all street race, drag race, build their cars, etc. so they would never say anything about "mistreating" a car. The only arguments you see between these guys is who's faster than who (which I don't waste my time with either, it turns into a pissing match every time).

To me mistreating a car is just flat out neglecting it. My cars are VERY well maintained, just driven hard .
Joe


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

My T-37 always seems to want to get sideways at least 2-3 times each outing. My GTO not so much. Oh i also built the engine, rear end, several different carbs. Didnt build the trans though.


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## angusGTO3 (May 2, 2006)

kwiktsi said:


> Haha, funny you say that- some of my best friends are people I banged heads with first and gained respect for each other through it lol. However, I do have a hard time on message boards though since I just type it out in black and white and a lot of people prefer it sugar coated .
> 
> I associate with mostly car guys who all street race, drag race, build their cars, etc. so they would never say anything about "mistreating" a car. The only arguments you see between these guys is who's faster than who (which I don't waste my time with either, it turns into a pissing match every time).
> 
> ...


Black and white huh what other way would you do it :confused look out everyone this guy is Crrraaazzzzyyyyy. I think he is just to much for us


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## angusGTO3 (May 2, 2006)

ha ha got you good [email protected] lol. You were about ready to have a day on that comment huh! just giving you crap like everyone else man take it easy:cheers


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

angusGTO3 said:


> Black and white huh what other way would you do it :confused look out everyone this guy is Crrraaazzzzyyyyy. I think he is just to much for us


Edited for stupidity on my part...


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## Sabraxas (Oct 29, 2006)

I think you need to read the comment he wrote after that.


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Sabraxas said:


> I think you need to read the comment he wrote after that.


Damn, I did read it, but for some reason I thought it was directed towards alittlebitoldschool since his post seemed out of place. I thought I missed something that got edited. My bad . Sorry angus!!!
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

angusGTO3 said:


> ha ha got you good [email protected] lol. You were about ready to have a day on that comment huh! just giving you crap like everyone else man take it easy:cheers


Lol, even worse- I did have a day with it hahaha.


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

No kwiktsi I was letting you know i can also turn a wrench or two. Can you make a holley carb perform as well as fuel injection, and run as clean????


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Gotcha, though I don't recall ever saying you couldn't, so I don't know what that has to do with anything :confused ? That's like me asking you if you could make my Haltech managed Talon put 487 to the wheels on pump gas and still get 29 MPG on the highway 7 years ago .. 

I have not touched a carb since about 93 or so, I went to EFI and never looked back . Kind of makes me laugh at how I used to pull the "computer crap" out of a car to put a carb on it back then lol.

I use to be decent with them, but never a pro, I never got much further than changing jets and accelerator pump cams and such (Holley). Just enough to make a fun street car run good. Never had any die hard race setups using a carb though, all my higher powered stuff has always been EFI/DFI.
Joe


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

kwiktsi said:


> Gotcha, though I don't recall ever saying you couldn't, so I don't know what that has to do with anything :confused ? That's like me asking you if you could make my Haltech managed Talon put 487 to the wheels on pump gas and still get 29 MPG on the highway 7 years ago ..
> 
> I have not touched a carb since about 93 or so, I went to EFI and never looked back . Kind of makes me laugh at how I used to pull the "computer crap" out of a car to put a carb on it back then lol.
> 
> ...


I could'nt do that in a million years. I guess i'm a nuckle dragger. I dont want to let the carb die. I love them, and can tune the crap out of one, it dose'nt take much to plug in a lap top and press buttons though, and call your self a tuner. I am impressed with the numbers those cars put to the ground. I'm sure there is a lot more to it than that, but all my real experience with fast cars involved a carb. I'm building a 406 pontiac engine now that should dip into the 11's.


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## Chrisco (Mar 19, 2007)

alittlebitoldschool said:


> I it dose'nt take mutch to plug in a lap top and press buttons though



It takes a little more than you think.


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

Well i said that in my post, or did you stop reading after i said that????


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

alittlebitoldschool said:


> I could'nt do that in a million years. I guess i'm a nuckle dragger. I dont want to let the carb die. I love them, and can tune the crap out of one, it dose'nt take much to plug in a lap top and press buttons though, and call your self a tuner. I am impressed with the numbers those cars put to the ground. I'm sure there is a lot more to it than that, but all my real experience with fast cars involved a carb. I'm building a 406 pontiac engine now that should dip into the 11's.


Nah, not a knuckle dragger, just have a preference- nothing wrong with that! There are just so many advantages to EFI and I would personally never go back. If I were to build another 69 camaro or something, I'd probably keep it carbed- but that's a different story.

Lol @ "doesn't take much to plug in a computer and push a couple of buttons"- they are both an art in their own way. My last GTO put 650 to the wheels on pump gas, would get around 24-25 mpg on the highway and ran without a hiccup anywhere I drove it- that's what I love about EFI, not to mention being able to tune every aspect of how it runs. There is a LOT more to it than just pushing a button. You set timing, fuel, EVERYTHING by load, RPM, etc. It is actually a lot more complicated than getting a carbed motor to run correctly, but the result is well worth it will allow you to do things and make the power you could never make with a carbed setup- especially in street trim on pump gas.

I will admit though that most of these new "tuners" don't have the feel for it that some of us do. They can't just "feel" that something is off, they need to see the numbers. They can't read plugs or tell tale signs of something being wrong- like boosted car with a radiator hose that suddenly starts to swell and leak out of nowhere and they continue to drive/race/tune it and are shocked when they find out a head gasket is bad "but there is no coolant in the oil" is the usual reply.. 

Trust me, I have the same "grudge" against a lot of the modern tuners and racers as many other "oldtimers", but I just ignore them and do my own thing. There are way to many people out there "building" high power cars that can't even diagnose a missfire without searching the internet- yet they have a car that puts down 700 whp because they read how to bolt it together somewhere. Times have changed and it sucks for the die-hards .

Good luck with your 406 build, what body is it in? To go 11's with no power adder on a carbed motor is certainly a talent many don't have anymore and is no easy feat by any means.
Joe


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## alittlebitoldschool (Mar 8, 2007)

Well you are gifted in the art of tuning a fuel injected car thats for sure. Putting that amount of horse to the ground, and getting 24mpg is a feat in itself. My 406 is going into my 71 lemans T-37. The little 359 is coming out just to much valve shrouding it only has a 3.88 in bore before being bored .30 over, and with 2.11/1.77 valves they dont breath well above 6k. I actually took a die grinder and ground down the top of the cylinders .020 above the ring lands so it would help with the shrouding. Really it's not hard to run mid to high 11's 3500 stall and 4.10 rear gear. It only takes about 425hp to the ground in a 3400lb car. I perfer to run a smaller carb, because the launch is better, and getting it moving out of a dig only helps the et, maybe not the mph, and all i want is to see the 11's:cheers


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

True- in a well set up car, 11's isn't bad to do if you are going for just the ET- though I am the opposite from you there too- I like the MPH over the ET lol, so I am looking at it from that standpoint too. I like to drag race, but would take an [email protected] (my last GTO) over a [email protected] or something. Since it is a street car for me, I enjoy having the pull. I do want it to hook as well as possible and will be working on traction with this one, but I still care more for the MPH personally. Though I will admit, my last one was so traction limited on the street that after driving it, a stock GTO pulled harder in 1st and second since it actually put the power down!!!

As for the power/MPG, it is fairly common place now with EFI and the overdrive transmissions. Pretty cool stuff. You can have a 900 hp car that behaves like a 400 hp car on the street. Hell, while it doesn't get the fuel economy, a buddy has a 71 Z28 with a twin turbo small block (DFI setup of course ) that ran I believe a 7.80 (I know it was very low 8's, high 7's at ~176 or so (again, from memory) that if you drove with him on the street, aside from the whine of the lenco, you would swear was just any other mild 355 small black show car. The thing runs flawlessly on the street, has a very mild cam (considering) and puts over 1500 to the wheels . Wicked car.
Joe


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Haha, just thinking of the "all I want is to see the 11's" At one point, I said I would be happy with a 12.5 out of my talon (very mild- just an upgraded turbo) and it ran 12.4. Then I decided, "ok, I'll go for the 11's next"- that thing ran a CONSISTENT 12.0xx every run- best of 12.001- talk about being pissed haha. Since then, I did a tear down and that's when I went further with it, though that 487 was still on a stock 110k mile motor and head . Never had it back to the track, but it did 487 to the wheels without the spray and I was spraying a 100-150 (depending on the race ) shot on it from there on the street and it walked my friends 11.4 car with ease on the bottle .

Those cars will always hold a place in me- they are very fun little cars and can be VERY potent street sleepers!


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## Sabraxas (Oct 29, 2006)

kwiktsi- you mention your last GTO a couple of times. What happened to it?!?! It sounds like my dream car (24mpg and 650 whp)!! and do you have a new GTO that you're working on?? If so, why did you change GTOs??

P.S. What was your secret to getting the GTO that way?


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Sabraxas said:


> kwiktsi- you mention your last GTO a couple of times. What happened to it?!?! It sounds like my dream car (24mpg and 650 whp)!! and do you have a new GTO that you're working on?? If so, why did you change GTOs??
> 
> P.S. What was your secret to getting the GTO that way?


It is kind of embarrassing and fits into the "I don't like how you treat your car argument"  . Some background- I have had many high powered cars over the years- some with more than the GTO, some with less. I have never had an accident in my 18 years of driving, blah blah.. Well, apparently, I never had a high powered car on the lovely (read- $h!tty) back roads of Pennsyltucky where the road maintenance is paralleled only by their strong oral hygiene beliefs . 

Bottom line- it hooked a busted section of road with my right rear tire while in the middle of a quick 3rd gear blast, yanked the back end off the busted up edge of the busted road and I couldn't get it back. Ended up on it's lid by the time all was said and done . Luckily, I didn't get more then a small cut on the top of my head (similar to hitting the corner of a cabinet or something), but the car didn't fare as well. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't pass the blame off to anyone but myself, but I have been kind of bitter about living here lately and dealing with how bass ackwards they are compared to the rest of the civilized world lol. It isn't their fault, but if the roads were better maintained, it never would have happened. There are spots where even driving the speed limit will have you white knuckled on the steering wheel, and what car guy doesn't just LOVE gravel, dirt, potholes, etc. all over the roads they take their Sunday cruise in their prized possession on. I have nicks in my doors from the front tires kicking up pebbles and such while driving. The problem is most of the people here, you could point out a basketball sized dent and ask them how that happened and they have that "there's a dent in my car? Where?? Oh that little thing, I don't know where that came from" mentality- not very fitting for a car guy lol. We are moving by the end of the year since we are both pulling our hair out here.

Sorry for the novel on PA, just started unloading as I was typing...

As for the 650 whp- Procharger P1-SC, 12 psi, alky, Kooks headers and a good tune made it happen . I was going to put the procharger on this car, but when APS came out with the special on their turbo kit for $5695 shipped, I sold the blower to give the TT setup a shot since I have such a solid background with turbos- I figured it would make for a fun setup.

I would recommend checking out ls1tech.com and ls2gto.com and doing some research if you are interested- the LSx motor is a VERY potent little motor. They make very impressive power with just bolt on's and tuning. Also, those sites are where you'll always find the big vendors posting specials and such. APS actually has another $5695 deal going on right now I believe and I have to say, I am very impressed with the quality of this kit. If you are interested, I can send you pics and stuff. I just don't want to go on about it if y ou don't care hahaha.. The first guy to finish just dynoed 565 hp and I think like 520 tq with the boost at it's stock setting on pump gas with a very conservative tune and it retains stock like drivability. Pretty nice stuff.

Again, sorry for the novel, it just kept coming out lol..
Joe


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## Sabraxas (Oct 29, 2006)

Thanks for the info but that's a little out of my price range. I think I need to concentrate on paying off my 2 cars first and do small mods in the mean time. GMM rip shift soon. Huge Turbo....not too soon. :lol:


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## kwiktsi (Apr 5, 2006)

Lol, no problem. There is a lot you can do with these motors without going too nuts that wakes them up nicely. A good tune and couple minor bolt on's will make a world of difference in how they perform!

I kind of wanted to pay this off first, but the bug bit before that happened hah.
Joe


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