# Want Goat to go Faster



## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

I have 05 M6 with K&N CAI, Kooks Short tube headers, Hi-flo cats, Cat back spin tech, diablosport predator tuner. I haven't gotten the car tuned yet. 

My question is that i've called around and i get mixed ideas. One guy from Dominant Motors was giving me suggestions of putting on L92 cylinder heads, eight L92 offset 1.7 intake rocker arms and two L92 rocker arm pedestals, Also new intake manfold. So basicaly new cams, new intake manifold, new heads, new injectors.

I was thinking of a different route. Maybe a twin turbo(procharger). If i get a twin turbo i need a new clutch right? But I'm also worried that having this mod it could ruin the transmission. And any other precaution by having this?

I'm trying to get most power but not go crazy. Its also my daily car. Give me any ideas. Thanks guys


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## Aramz06 (Mar 2, 2008)

mfriend193 said:


> I have 05 M6 with K&N CAI, Kooks Short tube headers, Hi-flo cats, Cat back spin tech, diablosport predator tuner. I haven't gotten the car tuned yet.
> 
> My question is that i've called around and i get mixed ideas. One guy from Dominant Motors was giving me suggestions of putting on L92 cylinder heads, eight L92 offset 1.7 intake rocker arms and two L92 rocker arm pedestals, Also new intake manfold. So basicaly new cams, new intake manifold, new heads, new injectors.
> 
> ...


With the twin turbo you will be going crazy...

If you don't go with Dominant MS' advice, I'd go for a heads cam package from some other MS group. I'd add tires and a new shifter to the picture if you have not already switched them, because although they don't give you horsepower directly, the car will feel so much faster with either of those, and your proof will be in time slips.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

Turbos and superchargers will make the car a PITA to drive as a DD.

You can do a nice heads/cam/intake package that is streetable and give you very noticible power.

Personally, I would go NO2. Power when you need. Cheap. Safe if you get tuned for it.  Or just do 100 dry and your ECU can compensate.

Keep in mind, either route you go, clutch is needed for the extra power.


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## DEEPBASSfastGTO (Jun 16, 2009)

Forget all that stuff. Change out the torque converter and you will be working the engine in a whole new RPM zone...It makes the car M E A N...


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## DEEPBASSfastGTO (Jun 16, 2009)

Sorry I see you have manual shift. Therefore I would explore gear ratio changes to your transmission...


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## BlackPearl (Sep 13, 2006)

jpalamar said:


> Turbos and superchargers will make the car a PITA to drive as a DD.


:rofl: No it won't. A procharger or a maggie will give you PLENTY of power and still keep it DD friendly. Maggie's are hands down known for that purpose. Also, plenty of people have the APS kit as a daily driver with no problems whatsoever. 

I would even say that if you want serious power that FI is the most affordable option. You could always get nitrous but the problem is you have to spray, it's not available all the time, AND you have to refill the bottle when you run out. An N/A set up will cost you more money to build it right. 

The biggest thing people overlook is purchasing your supporting mods (fuel pump, injectors, etc) AND getting a TUNE. Those go a long way in having a proper set up.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

mfriend193 said:


> I have 05 M6 with K&N CAI, Kooks Short tube headers, Hi-flo cats, Cat back spin tech, diablosport predator tuner. I haven't gotten the car tuned yet.
> 
> My question is that i've called around and i get mixed ideas. One guy from Dominant Motors was giving me suggestions of putting on L92 cylinder heads, eight L92 offset 1.7 intake rocker arms and two L92 rocker arm pedestals, Also new intake manfold. So basicaly new cams, new intake manifold, new heads, new injectors.
> 
> ...



Hey man its a great thought to go the twin charger route but....... u need a **** load more than a clutch to support that. were talking New Pistons, new rods, better heads to flow more, better intake, a full dyno tune, possible driveshaft, new rear end parts if u break the 550 mark..... Now if u have 6500 to drop on the charger kit thats great but ur gunna get stompted hard core on the supporting mods. Its ur daily driver and ur gunna need pretty much everything i listed above to run safe. 


If your going to do it then do it right dont half ass anyone will tell u that on here. A nice 150 or 125 shot would suit u fine.... I have one and its fine does the job trust me. A nice cam and head package even.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

BlackPearl said:


> :rofl: No it won't. A procharger or a maggie will give you PLENTY of power and still keep it DD friendly. Maggie's are hands down known for that purpose. Also, plenty of people have the APS kit as a daily driver with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> I would even say that if you want serious power that FI is the most affordable option. You could always get nitrous but the problem is you have to spray, it's not available all the time, AND you have to refill the bottle when you run out. An N/A set up will cost you more money to build it right.
> 
> The biggest thing people overlook is purchasing your supporting mods (fuel pump, injectors, etc) AND getting a TUNE. Those go a long way in having a proper set up.


My friend has a Procharged 04 GTO M6. Too much power to be DD. Try driving one when it is wet.. won't happen.

No2 not being avail the whole time is the point... and it costs like $50 bucks to fill a tank and lasts for a good bit. If you burn more then 2 bottles a year as a DD I would be shocked.

I'm not hating on the NA build, but too costly and to put real power down you would need a nasty, PITA cam for a DD.

Problem is DD drivabilty and traction. You just dont' really get that with turbos/superchargers. NO2 is cheaper, better for DD, and easy install.

All have supporting mods of course, but bang for the buck can't beat NO2 for a DD.


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

thanks guys. so i guess i might just do cam (but i dont know which one) and intake manifold, injectors,heads.

How much HP I'm i going to get from all these tho? 


i still might just get a turbo Cause i want to get to 500hp. And ill do what ever it takes. i just want it done the right and safe way for the car with no damage done


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

look at my picture..... 498 wrhp 525 FP torc GOT THE DYNO TO PROVE.

here's what i have.

cam (comp cam)
springs (stock valve's) gotta have springs and keepers
new tappets
new push rod (harden chromolly)
.02 tho over stock head gaskets(lower compression)
shorty headers( bolts right up to stock exhaust)
monster clutch ( stage 3 )
aluminum drive shaft (one piece not 2 like stock)
battle box ( to hold the rear end)(aka sub frame connector)
cat delete ( got a new set when i need them)
magnacharger super charger under driven 7.5 psi
snow performance water meth injector with nitromethane mix.
and one wicked tone.

after market cost 16K so far. 

yes i've been bitten by the mod bug.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

taz4141 said:


> look at my picture..... 498 wrhp 525 FP torc GOT THE DYNO TO PROVE.
> 
> here's what i have.
> 
> ...




^^^^ I made 460 whp from a 150 shot of NOS, Long tube headers, and a tune with the NOS. Not to be a jerk ur setup looks amazin! But I made nearly the same power for 3000. Obviously when im spraying


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

taz4141 said:


> look at my picture..... 498 wrhp 525 FP torc GOT THE DYNO TO PROVE.
> 
> here's what i have.
> 
> ...



OKay. But if it cost you 16,000 so far with all those mods (which I know i would end up spending all that to get the most out of my car because ive been bitten by this damn bug) should i just go and buy a LS7. that would cost about 7 to 10 grand. And probably a new rear end. Save up on some milk money and get it? what do you think? 

Because honestly if i get the maggie i would hear the whine noise. And i dont really like it and the hp would get me to what maybe 460 . And if i got a turbo, it would sound like a rice patty and that would get me to over 515hp right?. But if I waited, like waited a long time (maybe a year) sell my engine (ls2) and bought the 427? What do you think about it ? And what is the mpg on that engine if any body knows?

Because i know that engine puts out 500hp(And that makes me cream my pants) and i guessing my current mods would fit on it. Im hoping.

Also, thanks guys for all your input on it . I appreciate it. I stay up at night just thinkin about stuff i could make my car faster. Sad sh*t it-nit


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

mfriend193 said:


> OKay. But if it cost you 16,000 so far with all those mods (which I know i would end up spending all that to get the most out of my car because ive been bitten by this damn bug) should i just go and buy a LS7. that would cost about 7 to 10 grand. And probably a new rear end. Save up on some milk money and get it? what do you think?
> 
> Because honestly if i get the maggie i would hear the whine noise. And i dont really like it and the hp would get me to what maybe 460 . And if i got a turbo, it would sound like a rice patty and that would get me to over 515hp right?. But if I waited, like waited a long time (maybe a year) sell my engine (ls2) and bought the 427? What do you think about it ? And what is the mpg on that engine if any body knows?
> 
> ...




gas mileage pretty much depends on how ur gunna drive. It will probable get an average of 16 MPG. But i know its capable of 26 on the highway at 65 MPH. Yea you could save and buy the 427 but the ques is what are u gunna use this for>? Just as a fun project or some real racing? If its just gunna be for fun and still a daily driver I say go with a bigger cam and some spray with longtube headers


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Whoa, what is your mod buget? What power range are you looking for? What are you looking to do with your car? Need to get some simple questions asked here, before you spend money on a setup that your not happy with.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

mfriend193 said:


> OKay. But if it cost you 16,000 so far with all those mods (which I know i would end up spending all that to get the most out of my car because ive been bitten by this damn bug) should i just go and buy a LS7. that would cost about 7 to 10 grand. And probably a new rear end. Save up on some milk money and get it? what do you think?


LS7 is just an overpriced motor. The base LS3 is cheaper and when modded whopps the stock LS7 dollar for dollar.



GM4life said:


> Whoa, what is your mod buget? What power range are you looking for? What are you looking to do with your car? Need to get some simple questions asked here, before you spend money on a setup that your not happy with.


+1 is this a DD, weekend toy, track car?

How much money do you have to drop into it?


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## N14 (Jul 1, 2009)

*$$$*

Roughly,how much would it cost to get a 06 up to 725hp?


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

what im trying to do is get is much hp is i can with out breakin the car. Im not really going to the track but if some one on the street wants to race, i want to keep up. So i was thinkin of a prochager and going that route. Maybe change the cam and do a sunroof in the car.

My budget is around 5-7 grand. Not all at once but you know. Peace by peace

But also getting a sunroof, i need to ground the car right. So it doesnt turn on me


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

mfriend193 said:


> what im trying to do is get is much hp is i can with out breakin the car. Im not really going to the track but if some one on the street wants to race, i want to keep up. So i was thinkin of a prochager and going that route. Maybe change the cam and do a sunroof in the car.
> 
> My budget is around 5-7 grand. Not all at once but you know. Peace by peace
> 
> But also getting a sunroof, i need to ground the car right. So it doesnt turn on me


Does your 5-7k include engine mods and sunroof? Your not going to build a car that will keep up with everybody on the street, not with 5-7k. You can do a base Procharger setup and be done with it. If you want long term reliablity and flexablity then your looking at more money. For example: clutch, cam, drivetrain, suspension, and fuel system uprades. Again sitdown and think what do you want out of your car. Many FI options are out there and they all have their pros/cons.
I have a supercharged GTO and its a DD, you don't know it there until you step on it.


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## jpalamar (Jul 22, 2008)

5-7K won't do much. Modding cars is not a cheap hobby. Hence why I'm not running 10s. You can put power under the hood for that much money, but you won't be able to support the power and will break stuff.

With that budget, I would do clutch, heads, cam, tune, shifter, suspension, and good tires.


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

So getting a procharger is a decent setup right? I mean having that wont destroy my car right? i mean thats the route i was thinkin about doing. And that would prolly get me over 500 hp right ?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Procharger, Magnacharger, Vortec and STS build their systems to be bolted on a stock car without anyother modifications to the car in mind. These systems are not ment to destroy your car, because they would be out of busness if they did. You can destroy your car with stock power if it is abused. Alot of people suggest, that you get LT headers, upgrade your drivetrain, suspension, all that stuff is not nessary. The bare minimum is a clutch the stock clutch sux point blank. When companies design S/C systems they design them on bone stock cars. 

Now for reliablity, utilizing the extra power effectively and flexablity you would want to upgrade all that other stuff because people like me want more and thats when you move out of the stock stuff able to handle the abuse of more power.

Procharger is a pretty good system, it make decent top end power out of the box. I would talk to someone with a Procharger set up and ask questions.


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

i appreciate it . thank you. I think ill do that. I was talking to a guy in maryland performance and he said i could get up to 500 with a procharger and new injectors and dynoed and a few little details . But only certain amount of boost . if i go any high then lets say 8 i could do more wear and tear to the car . And or get better parts to support that power


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Procharger, Magnacharger, Vortec and STS build their systems to be bolted on a stock car without anyother modifications to the car in mind. These systems are not ment to destroy your car, because they would be out of busness if they did. You can destroy your car with stock power if it is abused. Alot of people suggest, that you get LT headers, upgrade your drivetrain, suspension, all that stuff is not nessary. The bare minimum is a clutch the stock clutch sux point blank. When companies design S/C systems they design them on bone stock cars.
> 
> Now for reliablity, utilizing the extra power effectively and flexablity you would want to upgrade all that other stuff because people like me want more and thats when you move out of the stock stuff able to handle the abuse of more power.
> 
> Procharger is a pretty good system, it make decent top end power out of the box. I would talk to someone with a Procharger set up and ask questions.


what you think about the STS turbo systems??? I know that the only real upgrade needed is a clutch but why do they have a disclaimer on their website saying new pistons and such and a better built bottom end is needed?? is that just to cover themselves?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

mr.gto said:


> what you think about the STS turbo systems??? I know that the only real upgrade needed is a clutch but why do they have a disclaimer on their website saying new pistons and such and a better built bottom end is needed?? is that just to cover themselves?


Haven't been to the STS site in a long time. Don't remember seeing that disclaimer. I don't think you would need to forge the bottom end for the base kit, many people have the STS kit installed without touching the engine, also watching TV shows do not mention nothing about that. A rear mounted turbo is not my cup of tea being rear mounted and low to the elements is a turn off for me. Its the only CARB legal turbo kit available to us in California.
Squires Turbo Systems - Benefits of STS Systems


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

GM4life said:


> Procharger, Magnacharger, Vortec and STS build their systems to be bolted on a stock car without anyother modifications to the car in mind. These systems are not ment to destroy your car, because they would be out of busness if they did. You can destroy your car with stock power if it is abused. Alot of people suggest, that you get LT headers, upgrade your drivetrain, suspension, all that stuff is not nessary. The bare minimum is a clutch the stock clutch sux point blank. When companies design S/C systems they design them on bone stock cars.
> 
> Now for reliablity, utilizing the extra power effectively and flexablity you would want to upgrade all that other stuff because people like me want more and thats when you move out of the stock stuff able to handle the abuse of more power.
> 
> Procharger is a pretty good system, it make decent top end power out of the box. I would talk to someone with a Procharger set up and ask questions.


Is a rear mounted turbo better then a reg turbo. And is it really true that twin turbo's are cheaper then lets say a procharger?. And in your opinion what do you think is better.

But i personally like the sound of a procharger for staters


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

mfriend193 said:


> Is a rear mounted turbo better then a reg turbo. And is it really true that twin turbo's are cheaper then lets say a procharger?. And in your opinion what do you think is better.
> 
> But i personally like the sound of a procharger for staters


I'm not going to speak on any of those systems because I have no experiance with them. Sorry, but I don't want to steer you or anybody else in the wrong direction. 

But...I would go Procharger, that was one of my choices, why big top end numbers. I went with Magnacharger because the flat torque, and street manners.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Haven't been to the STS site in a long time. Don't remember seeing that disclaimer. I don't think you would need to forge the bottom end for the base kit, many people have the STS kit installed without touching the engine, also watching TV shows do not mention nothing about that. A rear mounted turbo is not my cup of tea being rear mounted and low to the elements is a turn off for me. Its the only CARB legal turbo kit available to us in California.
> Squires Turbo Systems - Benefits of STS Systems


hmm im not sure where I saw that..... maybe it was prochargers site im not sure.... but I do remember seeing something like that disclaimer. Anyway I guess with the base kit you wont need to do anything to the motor. I think they said 7 psi was safe. Im looking into the turbos and such. Mostly I would like the safest and easiest to install.


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

GM4life said:


> I'm not going to speak on any of those systems because I have no experiance with them. Sorry, but I don't want to steer you or anybody else in the wrong direction.
> 
> But...I would go Procharger, that was one of my choices, why big top end numbers. I went with Magnacharger because the flat torque, and street manners.


I'm still thinking on which way i should go. With either twin turbo or procharger. I just cant decide. But im guess the procharger is easy to install but more expensive . And twin turbo's are cheaper but alittle more detail to install. Do I have the right?


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

I make 514rwhp and 490rwtq with the following:

Maggie kit
Kooks LT Header
full exhaust from magnaflow
Lingerfelter intake

28mpg on the freeway and easy and smooth to drive with no droning.

No troubles at all.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

GM4life said:


> .....I went with Magnacharger because the flat torque, and street manners.


Agreed,

OP, Maggie is legal in California. U might not care now since you don't live here, but if u were to sell ur car or part it out then ur options are not so limited.

I heard that while procharger offers more top end power, it has more up keep issues.

With the Maggie it's really like a "fire & forget" system.

It's nice to have a flat power band that gives u a little better MPG during cruising and it ain't going to break while ur racing.

the last thing u need is to fuel some mustang, import notion that LSx is a ****ty powerplant........


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

mfriend193 said:


> I'm still thinking on which way i should go. With either twin turbo or procharger. I just cant decide. But im guess the procharger is easy to install but more expensive . And twin turbo's are cheaper but alittle more detail to install. Do I have the right?


Less piping with a Procharger, and the swap a head unit from P-1 to D-1 will give you more potental. I think turbocharger systems are more expensive than supercharger systems.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

GM4life said:


> Less piping with a Procharger, and the swap a head unit from P-1 to D-1 will give you more potental. I think turbocharger systems are more expensive than supercharger systems.



actually for this car the turbo seems the least expensive way to go as that kind of power adder goes..... the Magnacharger kit is almost 8 grand and procharger is like 5700 dollars. The STS Turbo kit is around 4300-4700 depending where you get it from. Or maybe im just shopping in the wrong places haha!


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

I would love that magnacharger kit! but damn is it expensive but it sounds and puts down great numbers


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

mr.gto said:


> actually for this car the turbo seems the least expensive way to go as that kind of power adder goes..... the Magnacharger kit is almost 8 grand and procharger is like 5700 dollars. The STS Turbo kit is around 4300-4700 depending where you get it from. Or maybe im just shopping in the wrong places haha!


You are right about the prices. You can get the "old" MP112 kit for $5200 now but the new TVS is around $8K. Vendors run specials all the time for the TVS but wont disclose prices until you call them. I remember looking at the STS system along time ago and once I added all the IC, BOV, gauges, adj. waistgate, ect on the $4K price it surpast the Magnacharge system. Things may have changed since I looked at it 5 years ago.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

GM4life said:


> You are right about the prices. You can get the "old" MP112 kit for $5200 now but the new TVS is around $8K. Vendors run specials all the time for the TVS but wont disclose prices until you call them. I remember looking at the STS system along time ago and once I added all the IC, BOV, gauges, adj. waistgate, ect on the $4K price it surpast the Magnacharge system. Things may have changed since I looked at it 5 years ago.


whats the big difference between the old 112 kit and this new kit? it seems like it has to be major cuz there is a huge price difference


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

In short MP112/MP122 5th Gen three lobe 60 deg twist, the new TVS Series MP1900/MP2300 6th Gen four lobes 160 deg twist. They move more air, lower IAT's and are quieter. The new TVS superchargers are used in the Corvette ZR1 LS9 and the Caddy CTS-V LSA engines.
Magna Charger manufacturers intercooled supercharging systems for late model GM and Ford cars, trucks and SUVs utilizing OEM quality Eaton hybrid superchargers.
Stock MP1900 will out do a stock MP112 on the same engine with more potential.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

GM4life said:


> In short MP112/MP122 5th Gen three lobe 60 deg twist, the new TVS Series MP1900/MP2300 6th Gen four lobes 160 deg twist. They move more air, lower IAT's and are quieter. The new TVS superchargers are used in the Corvette ZR1 LS9 and the Caddy CTS-V LSA engines.
> Magna Charger manufacturers intercooled supercharging systems for late model GM and Ford cars, trucks and SUVs utilizing OEM quality Eaton hybrid superchargers.
> Stock MP1900 will out do a stock MP112 on the same engine with more potential.


hmmm well it sounds like ill want the 112 anyway because I like the loud noise and im sure the 112 will give me more than enough power on my motor


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

mr.gto said:


> hmmm well it sounds like ill want the 112 anyway because I like the loud noise and im sure the 112 will give me more than enough power on my motor


Well I wanted the 112 then when I saw the new MP1900 I like what I saw. Then after alittle more thinking my goals was only 450rwhp. So I figured that the 112 will be more than enough for me, so thats what I went with and it exceeded my goals.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

I have the 112 and with Kooks LTH, Lingenfelter intake, catless mids, x-pipe and magnaflo catback it produced 514rwhp and 489rwtq with maggie flash tune.

The sound is perfect, just to remind people that ur $$$$ was spent underneath the hood and it offers a "warning" sound to those thinking of racing u.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

let me explain the differences between a roots and a procharger. roots blowers bolted on top of the engine will give you more low end torc and when set up right will give you top end performance. why:Q becuase it right on top of the cylinders. a procharger has to fill a 90 millimeter tube with pressure first not that the time is much but...every tenth of a second count. i cant give up 100th of a second. let alone a 10th roots are right friggen now. procharger next then turbo's (no way) lag time sucks even with launch control.miss a gear and start over. with roots, miss a gear and you have back that same instance...... im not dogging on procharger i love em. they have some really good stuff and there easy to over drive. but so is roots. AKA magnacharger. now. yes i have a bucket of love $$$$ in my car but really what is it you want? i run at 12.7 ambient air . one mile high. denver colorado. bandimere speed way. this is what im set up for. if i go to calf or equivalent 14. ambient air id blow up. literally.snap a rod or something.however if i was to race there id pull low to mid 10's. so agian what do you want . im safe here. water meth to control detention and one wicked tone with all my hardware. im dialed.

so. back to your question(i want my goat faster) good, we all do. thats why your here asking question . ls7 no. ls3 no. start with what you have and make it safe to drive.one thing at a time. one thing about my ls2 is that it is maxed out for all the stock parts that are still on it. look at it this way.

14 sec- 13 $100.00 for tenths
13 sec to 12 $1000.00 for thenths
12-11 2000.00 to 3000.00 for tenths (now your risking street legal)
11 and under 5,000.00 for tenths (and you will spend it on something/s)
and that's here at a mile high
drop a second for sea level you get the gist of it.
and any one out there that has played with this knows im right.
so 16,000 grand is nothing to what some guys have in there cars and still fight with 11's. or 10's at sea level. what ever. speed kills whether trany or drive shaft, axle. motor mounts . surp belts. it don't matter its an ongoing battle. 5k is just a drop in the bucket.

SO. built for you and make it safe. this is all i got to say when it comes to the mod bug. i hate the mod bug. but im bitten and still have 10-15 grand to go before im completely happy. maybe lol.... i will commend you for coming here and asking for advice for parts cuz that it key as to what works and what fails . there's a great many of us that have pumped lots of cash in to these car and pitch the parts out the door the next day. each of us will have different input on power, air assist units(super charger)(turbo's) cams lifter and so forth. even exhaust. headers so forth. one thing i can say is for the most part we all agree. because it's all good stuff. by point of preference. and nothing more. so you want mad power then start at the beginning. put what mods you have on and TUNE the darn thing. see what you got. then save your mike money as you call it and put the next mod on, then TUNE the darn thing see what you got. at some point something will brake, then you have enough. good luck hope you get what you want. but remember this. there is always someone faster then you. ALWAYS.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

taz4141 said:


> let me explain the differences between a roots and a procharger. roots blowers bolted on top of the engine will give you more low end torc and when set up right will give you top end performance. why:Q becuase it right on top of the cylinders. a procharger has to fill a 90 millimeter tube with pressure first not that the time is much but...every tenth of a second count. i cant give up 100th of a second. let alone a 10th roots are right friggen now. procharger next then turbo's (no way) lag time sucks even with launch control.miss a gear and start over. with roots, miss a gear and you have back that same instance...... im not dogging on procharger i love em. they have some really good stuff and there easy to over drive. but so is roots. AKA magnacharger. now. yes i have a bucket of love $$$$ in my car but really what is it you want? i run at 12.7 ambient air . one mile high. denver colorado. bandimere speed way. this is what im set up for. if i go to calf or equivalent 14. ambient air id blow up. literally.snap a rod or something.however if i was to race there id pull low to mid 10's. so agian what do you want . im safe here. water meth to control detention and one wicked tone with all my hardware. im dialed.
> 
> so. back to your question(i want my goat faster) good, we all do. thats why your here asking question . ls7 no. ls3 no. start with what you have and make it safe to drive.one thing at a time. one thing about my ls2 is that it is maxed out for all the stock parts that are still on it. look at it this way.
> 
> ...


some good stuff there. cliff note version. you aren't "just" going to bolt on big HP. once you do you had better be ready with at least that amount of money again to make the rest of the car and engine right.


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## mfriend193 (Mar 26, 2009)

taz4141 said:


> let me explain the differences between a roots and a procharger. roots blowers bolted on top of the engine will give you more low end torc and when set up right will give you top end performance. why:Q becuase it right on top of the cylinders. a procharger has to fill a 90 millimeter tube with pressure first not that the time is much but...every tenth of a second count. i cant give up 100th of a second. let alone a 10th roots are right friggen now. procharger next then turbo's (no way) lag time sucks even with launch control.miss a gear and start over. with roots, miss a gear and you have back that same instance...... im not dogging on procharger i love em. they have some really good stuff and there easy to over drive. but so is roots. AKA magnacharger. now. yes i have a bucket of love $$$$ in my car but really what is it you want? i run at 12.7 ambient air . one mile high. denver colorado. bandimere speed way. this is what im set up for. if i go to calf or equivalent 14. ambient air id blow up. literally.snap a rod or something.however if i was to race there id pull low to mid 10's. so agian what do you want . im safe here. water meth to control detention and one wicked tone with all my hardware. im dialed.
> 
> so. back to your question(i want my goat faster) good, we all do. thats why your here asking question . ls7 no. ls3 no. start with what you have and make it safe to drive.one thing at a time. one thing about my ls2 is that it is maxed out for all the stock parts that are still on it. look at it this way.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate it. It gives me a big idea of what i want to do and what i can afford. I think i might continue with more bolt on. Like maybe a new cam, new intake manifold, new ls3 heads, and dynoed. I think that will give me some power for a couple of years. Then up grade to procharger. But having these upgrades, could i still have a procharger?


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

taz4141 said:


> let me explain the differences between a roots and a procharger. roots blowers bolted on top of the engine will give you more low end torc and when set up right will give you top end performance. why:Q becuase it right on top of the cylinders. a procharger has to fill a 90 millimeter tube with pressure first not that the time is much but...every tenth of a second count. i cant give up 100th of a second. let alone a 10th roots are right friggen now. procharger next then turbo's (no way) lag time sucks even with launch control.miss a gear and start over. with roots, miss a gear and you have back that same instance...... ......



I like the format by which you explained in lay-terms why *cough* Maggies are the ideal choice.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Good writeup *taz4141*.






GM4life said:


> You are right about the prices. You can get the "old" MP112 kit for $5200 now but the new TVS is around $8K. Vendors run specials all the time for the TVS but wont disclose prices until you call them. I remember looking at the STS system along time ago and once I added all the IC, BOV, gauges, adj. waistgate, ect on the $4K price it surpast the Magnacharge system. Things may have changed since I looked at it 5 years ago.


Correction on the price of the new TVS superchargers Marylandspeed.com has them for $6-8K.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

if a procharger is what you want then get it....... maggies are better. but again, is that what you want ??????? make your car your's not becuase we all said so. monkey see monkey do. oh FYI.... DON'T WAIST MONEY ON AN INTAKE IF YOUR GOING TO SUPER CHARGE WITH MAGGIES. cam is good and ls3 heads won't hurt. C5R would be more better. again big $$$. headers are always good and cheap. new exhaust.

for a tight budget. cold air intake, headers, exhaust and a good tune. then spend the bigger buck, maggies, cam, heads,.don't get aggressive or you'll be replacing pistons and rods. if you start seeing 600 plus HP you may want to do that anyway.

maggies come with 42 lbs injectors if you want to run e85 fuel get 52 lbs and a fuel system upgrade. i could go on but this is food for thought.

BATMAN......:agree maggies are the best.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

taz4141 said:


> if a procharger is what you want then get it....... maggies are better. but again, is that what you want ??????? make your car your's not becuase we all said so. monkey see monkey do. oh FYI.... DON'T WAIST MONEY ON AN INTAKE IF YOUR GOING TO SUPER CHARGE WITH MAGGIES. cam is good and ls3 heads won't hurt. C5R would be more better. again big $$$. headers are always good and cheap. new exhaust.
> 
> for a tight budget. cold air intake, headers, exhaust and a good tune. then spend the bigger buck, maggies, cam, heads,.don't get aggressive or you'll be replacing pistons and rods. if you start seeing 600 plus HP you may want to do that anyway.
> 
> ...



Great way to describe the differences in the power adders..... I am about to purchase the 112 mag charger kit for 5000.... i know im gunna need a clutch a lot of people running that kit here have told me thats all ill need. I already have Kooks longtubes. Im only gunna run 7-8 psi. I know i cant go crazy im just making sure that i wont be screwed once i spend this amount of money. As soon as its done being put on its going for a pro dyno tune at speed inc


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

mr.gto said:


> Great way to describe the differences in the power adders..... I am about to purchase the 112 mag charger kit for 5000.... i know im gunna need a clutch a lot of people running that kit here have told me thats all ill need. I already have Kooks longtubes. Im only gunna run 7-8 psi. I know i cant go crazy im just making sure that i wont be screwed once i spend this amount of money. As soon as its done being put on its going for a pro dyno tune at speed inc


I have the LS7 clutch and love it. nice pedal pressure and feel and no slippage.

7-8 psi is pushing the envelop. I'm running stock 5-6psi at this point.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

taz4141 said:


> .....oh FYI.... DON'T WAIST MONEY ON AN INTAKE IF YOUR GOING TO SUPER CHARGE WITH MAGGIES. cam is good and ls3 heads won't hurt.....BATMAN......:agree maggies are the best.


I spoke with the owner of Silicone Hose, Silicone Hoses, Turbo Hose, Turbo Hoses, Intercooler Hose, Intercooler Hoses, T-bolt Clamps and he said that he has repeatedly dyno'd intakes with all sorts of superchargers and said that intakes are a waste of $$$ since the boost is fixed. 

At the time I wanted to buy some couplers to replace the ribbed factory ones to reduce intake turbulence for a smoother airflow, which on turbo'd cars has resulted in more power and shorter turbo lag.

Even though it may not make more power with intake mods, I can't help to wonder if it's easier on the supercharger components and parastatic drag to have a free flowing system.......


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

batmans said:


> I have the LS7 clutch and love it. nice pedal pressure and feel and no slippage.
> 
> 7-8 psi is pushing the envelop. I'm running stock 5-6psi at this point.


yea ive heard 8 without a build is pretty much the max to run..... does it come with the pulley to make it 8 psi? or does it change the psi some other way?


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

When I bought my car used it had all the Maggie 112 kit bolted on.

The pulley is a 2.8 and to my understanding that is the pulley that is provided in the kit which is good for 5-6lbs boost.

I heard a 2.7 pulley is good for another 50rwhp~ which is at the 7-8lbs boost.

I have almost 70k miles on the car. The only issue that I had that may be tied to more power is that the previous owner was drag racing it and speed shifting. The second gear was very notchy and eventually seized up which caused a chain reaction series of events that took out the diff, drive shaft and bracket.

That is $12k worth of damage from making the GTO do high 10's - low 11's.

Good thing that was covered by the GMPP warranty (which surprised the dealers since the car was clearly modified for much more power).

Since then I have NEVER dropped the clutch or speed shift. My races have been all rolling starts, much easier on everything.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

batmans said:


> I spoke with the owner of Silicone Hose, Silicone Hoses, Turbo Hose, Turbo Hoses, Intercooler Hose, Intercooler Hoses, T-bolt Clamps and he said that he has repeatedly dyno'd intakes with all sorts of superchargers and said that intakes are a waste of $$$ since the boost is fixed.
> 
> At the time I wanted to buy some couplers to replace the ribbed factory ones to reduce intake turbulence for a smoother airflow, which on turbo'd cars has resulted in more power and shorter turbo lag.
> 
> Even though it may not make more power with intake mods, I can't help to wonder if it's easier on the supercharger components and parastatic drag to have a free flowing system.......


:agree 3 lbs is 3lbs. same at 6 or 8 or 30. again i agree. free flowing is key along with cold air . turbulence in air heats up. maggies are bad for this,but there not to bad . water/meth inject cools that right down. after 2 runs down the track i could hold my hand right on top of the maggie. so im pleased,

the cam i put in with the factory pulley on my maggies , the cam took all the air. so i had no choice then to under drive the pulley. so im running a 2.32 diameter and she close to maxed out. any thing smaller and im wasting time. now im back to 7.5 lbs runs like a charm. now she wiggles that a$$. love it.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

2004 MP112 kits come with 2.9 pulley, mine puts about 6.5psi with the mods I have. 2005-05 kits come with 2.8 pulley about 6.5psi. For every pound of boost equals 20hp. Remember tuning is the key, people run 8-10psi with these cars on pump gas. It depends on the mods on your car how much boost your going to put out.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

Running 8-10 psi with a tune sounds like 600+RWHP.

Won't that bend pistons, twists driveshafts like coke cans, damage tranny and/or diff?

It's not so much detonation that I am worried about, but the stock components being able to handle the additional HP/TQ.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

batmans said:


> Running 8-10 psi with a tune sounds like 600+RWHP.
> 
> Won't that bend pistons, twists driveshafts like coke cans, damage tranny and/or diff?
> 
> It's not so much detonation that I am worried about, but the stock components being able to handle the additional HP/TQ.


I have not seen much over 550rwhp out of a base 112. There is a few over on the other forum that are pushing over 600rwhp on stock bottom ends. But for how long will that last I don't know. But you are right the drivetrain will be trashed when you play with that kind of power. Thats one of the reasons why I have not put on the 2.7 pulley.


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm already beating 99% of the cars that I race.

my issue is traction.

I'm scared if the car starts to hook up off the line and the drive train getting hammered. Tire slippage is probably saving it for now..........


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

batmans said:


> I'm already beating 99% of the cars that I race.
> 
> my issue is traction.
> 
> I'm scared if the car starts to hook up off the line and the drive train getting hammered. Tire slippage is probably saving it for now..........


Yeap. I peep at driveline upgrades, $800-$1100 for driveshaft, $800-$1000 for halfshafts can't remember how much for stubs. Then for me another $1400 for Pedders suspension. Is it necessary, no. Wish I was a computer geek instead.


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## mr.gto (Jul 2, 2008)

well the only reason that u will burn a piston or be sending one through ur block would be lack of fuel or a tune problem. In theory with ur car tuned properly you could have ur supercharger on 8 psi putting out 550 hp no problem as long as you have correct fuel. On top of that you could probable shoot nitrous on the top end of the track with that. Once again with ur fuel being proper. These bottom ends are really strong. Havent seen many go out around here or at the shop


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## batmans (Aug 16, 2007)

The LS2 bottom end is not forged, right?


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

mfriend193 said:


> I have 05 M6 with K&N CAI, Kooks Short tube headers, Hi-flo cats, Cat back spin tech, diablosport predator tuner. I haven't gotten the car tuned yet.
> 
> My question is that i've called around and i get mixed ideas. One guy from Dominant Motors was giving me suggestions of putting on L92 cylinder heads, eight L92 offset 1.7 intake rocker arms and two L92 rocker arm pedestals, Also new intake manfold. So basicaly new cams, new intake manifold, new heads, new injectors.
> 
> ...





I didn't know that Kooks made shorties for the 04-06 GTO. 


You can do a Procharger or a Maggie Supercharger. Both are very good units and will give you a ton of HP & TQ

If you don't want to with forced induction. get a good cam and a intake manifold. 

A stronger clutch should be high on your list RIGHT NOW


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

GM4life said:


> 2004 MP112 kits come with 2.9 pulley, mine puts about 6.5psi with the mods I have. 2005-05 kits come with 2.8 pulley about 6.5psi. For every pound of boost equals 20hp. Remember tuning is the key, people run 8-10psi with these cars on pump gas. It depends on the mods on your car how much boost your going to put out.




I am only running 5-6 pounds of boost. I don't race my car and the shop told me there is no reason to put too much stress on a stock bottom end. They told me they could easily coax another 60- 80 HP out of her but I just don't need it. Being over 500 RWHP & TQ is enough for me.


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> some good stuff there. cliff note version. you aren't "just" going to bolt on big HP. once you do you had better be ready with at least that amount of money again to make the rest of the car and engine right.


You are 100% correct in saying that getting big numbers will come at a Big price. It's not too bad getting a 13 sec car to make it to the 12's. It starts to get very costly when you start shooting low 12s- mid 11s or lower. 

Don't have a clue as to what my car will do but with a new Stage 6 Trans and a Prochager as my latest additions I would hope top be in the 11s


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## lilevridnhood (Jun 26, 2009)

hi, i have an 06 goat. SO far ive got intake x pipe and diablosport programmer 

i was wondering what my next mod should be? Should i go with headers or feul injectors? Its not a matter of money that much but which is better to do to the car 1st?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

svede1212 said:


> some good stuff there. cliff note version. you aren't "just" going to bolt on big HP. once you do you had better be ready with at least that amount of money again to make the rest of the car and engine right.


Agreed! I haven't seen much mention here of upgrading parts past the transmission. I would think replacing the drive & half shafts would be a must past 400 to the wheels, at least to be 100% safe about it. Even axle stubs if you're talking 600+. A busted U-joint can really ruin your day (and your car).



batmans said:


> I like the format by which you explained in lay-terms why *cough* Maggies are the ideal choice.


Indeed, a roots blower is probably the cheapest way to add power, and I wouldn't be all that concerned about the rotating assembly with single digit boost, the LS platform has 6 bolt main caps, unheard of before, unless you took your block apart and did some drilling/tapping.

Anyways, you don't HAVE to use boost to develop power to the wheels in the 500hp/tq range, seems like a lot of the 404 stroker guys with L92 heads, a cam, and an L76 intake setup or 102mm intake & TB (and bigger injectors) are making that N/A. Granted its like 3X the price, but its not impossible. Depends on how deep your pockets are, and what kind of power junkie you are. :lol:

"Speed is just a question of money. How fast do you want to spend?"


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## Red Bearded Goat (Mar 19, 2007)

mfriend193 said:


> My question is that i've called around and i get mixed ideas.
> 
> I'm trying to get most power but not go crazy. Its also my daily car. Give me any ideas. Thanks guys


Reading thru the thread there are lots of very good informative posts from non-professionals, along with a few to give your imagination a spin thru the light fandango. But the rubber meets the road by what you can afford and I believe your budget doesn't match your appetite. You should talk to a shop that can give you priced packages with performance data from previous builds so you can get a good feel for where the engine will develop its punch. Within a doable distance from Gathersburg, I suggest you contact Fran at RPM in Delaware. With reasonable rates, his shop has turned out many a GTO owner from our area sportin a SEG on the ride home.
Welcome to Race Proven Motorsports


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

That vette is just sick!


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

mr.gto said:


> ^^^^ I made 460 whp from a 150 shot of NOS, Long tube headers, and a tune with the NOS. Not to be a jerk ur setup looks amazin! But I made nearly the same power for 3000. Obviously when im spraying


that's cool to see the numbers on a nos 150 shoot . however my 16K will be cheap to what your going to spend after the nos burns a hole in the piston. not to be a jerk. but before i'd do nos i would set the crank and piston's to handle the nos burn. that and nos is not the safest fuel. effective never the less.

look.. all I'm saying is nos on a stock system in high shot number will lead to catastrophic results ever though people do it all the time.


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## taz4141 (Nov 6, 2006)

batmans said:


> I'm already beating 99% of the cars that I race.
> 
> my issue is traction.
> 
> I'm scared if the car starts to hook up off the line and the drive train getting hammered. Tire slippage is probably saving it for now..........


you could not of said that any better :agree


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