# Found a 70 Orbit Orange GTO...expert help?



## jacksgto (Dec 25, 2008)

Hi guys, I was hoping for some help with a potential purchase of this 242 vin car. I saw the car in person and the 10 year Orbit orange looks pretty close to correct. Car is straight with some plastic here and there. New interior that's actually very nice and correct, buckets console A/C hood tach and rear wing. Cowl Tag says Made in Canada and there are lots of numbers on it. I made out the 60 for orbit orange but was wondering if there a list somewhere for the canadian built cars. Have to check for that Judge W code. Does PHS have Canadian car docs or do I have to contact GM of Canada? NOM 400, T400 and a 12 bolt rear. Is it true only 455 cars came with 12 bolt? Details are sketchy. I didn't get numbers off of it yet. Is the housing different than the Chevy 12 bolt, like an hourglass shape? Are 455 cars worth more even if original engine is gone? It's a running car that needs lots of detail work under hood and chassis and some trim items. Wondering if it's a worthwhile project in this bad economy. Would make a nice Judge clone.I Can grab it for around $13K.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I think PHS documents will help here. 455's don't seem to pull more $$$ than the Ram Air Judges. I think a RA IV would bring more. Even if it's not a Judge, and is "just" a GTO, it looks like an awful lot of car for 13k. A buddy of mine just spent 10k getting his car painted! You couldn't buy a new Hyundai for 13k, and what would IT be worth in ten years? I like it!!!! Merry Christmas............


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Nice find and well worth the money,

The 1970 455 HO came with 12 bolt chevy rear ends, here are some codes;

Ratio 3.31 open=WU posi=XU 
Ratio 3.55 open=WV posi=XV 

You should be able to get the PHS documents for this car thru PHS Historic Services, here is some information regarding the 70 Judge from GTO Alley;



> The 1970 Judge came with a redesigned lighter spoiler on the trunk and only one heavy-duty torque rod installed on the left hand inside of the trunk. It came with 14x6 inch Rally II wheels with trim rings as an option. Tri-colored side body stripes were on the front and rear fender creases. "The Judge" decals were on the front fenders behind the wheel wells, on the trunk lid and glovebox door. The standard Judge engine was the 400 Ram Air III, with the 455 being offered later in the year.
> There were 3,797 Hardtops and 162 Convertibles built in 1970.
> The factory build sheet will show Judge option RPO 332, UPC WT1.


BTW, welcome to the forum!


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## TreySmith (Dec 25, 2008)

Why would you spend $10k on a paintjob? >_>.... I work at a body shop and its like $1200 at most for base/clear...


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

TreySmith said:


> Why would you spend $10k on a paintjob? >_>.... I work at a body shop and its like $1200 at most for base/clear...


...and that's going to buy you a PERFECT, dirt free, drip free, run free, polished paint job with no flaws at all?


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## Ranger01 (Nov 14, 2008)

Hmm... because its cheaper, takes less time, and most of all period correct!

I just find it funny when people spend loads of money on paint jobs on "period correct/ factory correct" paint jobs... altho I guess if you want to have a 100% perfect paint job that works but if you want it to look like it just came out of the factory you just leave in the orange peel, overspray, small runs (barely noticable ones or ones in mostly unseen areas), specs of dirt and dust, and other small flaws.

(not tryin to argue or sound condescending or anything just stating my .02  )


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## TreySmith (Dec 25, 2008)

Rukee said:


> ...and that's going to buy you a PERFECT, dirt free, drip free, run free, polished paint job with no flaws at all?


Not "perfect" but damn close... After they wet sand and buff/wax, you wouldn't notice the difference.. I mean yeah, the $10k would be better, but is it really worth the $9000 difference? That could get you well up the road, maybe even finished on another project.. 

I am new here, so I don't know a whole lot, but I couldn't justify $10k on a paintjob.. Unless it was like a Lambo or a car that was worth big money like a superbird etc.. I could probably see it on a show car, where that one piece of dust on the door jamb or something could mean the difference between first and second..


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

TreySmith said:


> Not "perfect" but damn close... After they wet sand and buff/wax, you wouldn't notice the difference.. I mean yeah, the $10k would be better, but is it really worth the $9000 difference? That could get you well up the road, maybe even finished on another project..
> 
> I am new here, so I don't know a whole lot, but I couldn't justify $10k on a paintjob.. Unless it was like a Lambo or a car that was worth big money like a superbird etc.. I could probably see it on a show car, where that one piece of dust on the door jamb or something could mean the difference between first and second..


You're talking just to squirt for 12 hundred. Your body shop would strip the whole car down to bare metal, fix all the rust and imperfections, replace metal and paint/polish for the 12 hundred??, for the 10 grand they're doing ALL the body work, dissasembly, rust repair, dent removeals, refit all the panels, painting all the door jams and edges, reassemble after polishing, etc. Your going to do all that work for $1,200??


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## jacksgto (Dec 25, 2008)

All this paint job discussion is fascinating, but I could use some feedback on the original subject...anyone? Merry Christmas hangover! Thanks


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Get the PHS and then buy the '70!!!

I would love to talk about paint and body options too. Maybe another thread?

Jeff


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## jacksgto (Dec 25, 2008)

***UPDATE***
Went back today to get some numbers. Here's the cowl tag.

70 24237 OS592010 BDY
TR 258 102B PNT
8D D55C50C60C??
U80 M40

From what I understand its a black bucket interior(258) with console(D55)which it is.
C50 rear defog, C60 AC, U80 rear spkr, M40 TurboHydro.
I guess only the Canadian cars list some RPO's on the tags. I am stumped on the absense of the paint code. I thought the 60 under the PNT letters was the 60 for orbit orange, but it seems that is for the next line of RPO's and the C60 RPO falls right under it. Anyone know if this was a common thing for paint codes being left blank? I know I have to get the PHS, I hope they have the Canadian car info. Wondering how much a color change hurts the value, if it is a color change. But the car is so nice I think I'm gonna pull the trigger anyway. The price is getting a lot closer to $10K that forgives a lot of short comings. Any opinions?????????


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## wytnyt (May 17, 2008)

i can get mine done for 800 that will or could rival most paint jobs out there.
but thats me doing the rub work


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Jack- buy it or I will, nice car, good luck.

Trey- Where do I drop my car off at, I want a $1200 almost show quality, 2nd place, paint job for my Lemans...


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## 70gto (Mar 19, 2008)

Great price and color do it.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Welcome to the forum. Just to add my .02 here.....

If you are contemplating cloning it out, I wouldn't worry about the color. The Orbit Orange was exclusively a mid 70 Judge color only. In case you may not know.... Orbit Orange was introduced mid 1970 because sales of Judges were lacking. Orbit Orange helped boost the sales of the 70 Judges which because of that the 71 Judges were produced which then flopped. 

It wouldn't make sense to me that if that car was a Judge there is no badging or stripes to indicate it. IMO that is a 70 GTO with a Judge color unless someone didn't know what they had and didn't replace the Judge kit. If that is the case it's a steal at the price you indicate.

That car would be ideal for a clone.


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## jacksgto (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback. I did not know Orbit Orange was exclusive to the Judge. However I dont have the PHS docs yet and the trim tag seems to be lacking a paint code. Also I read that Canadian Judges would have WT1 code on the tag, so I don't think it's a judge. FYI, I'm not considering cloning to boost the cars value, I just think a 70 with the Judge stripping in that color looks cool and the hard part is done. I am seeing more and more 70's in the low teens, I am somewhat hesitant without the original engine, but at that price, I can put the stripes on, pull off the trim rings and enjoy it.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I hear ya..... I got a PHS documented Palladium Silver 70 (non matching numbers) and will be cloning it out as well as soon as the weather cooperates for me to take delivery of it. Not for increased value but because I refuse to pay the prices people are asking for them and my quest to have a Judge that I have been searching for for a while. I am not concerned about the paperwork reflecting it as what it is. When I am totally finished with it, the only difference between mine and an authentic one will be the documentation and 10's of thousands I have saved.

Pics to follow once I get it to that point.


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## topfuel67 (Dec 23, 2008)

Did you ask the guy if its the original color? You can always snoop around a car and find out if it was. Pull back the carpet under the door panel. Look inside the trunk upwards around the back. Look under neath the car upwards towards the rockers, there are many areas that are missed in a repaint. Unless the car was 100% disassembled and chemical dipped there will be signs of the original paint. Like others said, if it is the original paint, then it is a judge. 

As for numbers matching motors, it seems that values are still pretty close even with out as long as the motor is the correct year, date and size.


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