# Shoulderbelt's in a '65?



## Chooko (Mar 29, 2012)

Amongst my Pontiac's, I have a '65 GTO which I am in the process of determining whether I will keep or sell. One thing in the "sell" column is the original lap only seat belts. I just dont think they are safe, and every time I think about taking my wife for a ride, I imagine her face bouncing off the dash and it really ruins the experience for me. I know that various companies will sell me new seat belts with lap and shoulder belts, but I am wondering if anyone has done this on a '65? I am told that every '67 had brackets in the roof for shoulder belts because they were optional that year. Is putting shoulder belts in my '65 as easy as installing the brackets from a '67 into the '65, or is it easier to fabricate some kind of mount? I know someone has done this before, so please let me know what has worked in the past.

Joe
'65 GTO
'72 GTO
'05 GTO
'86 Fiero GT
'88 Fiero GT
'89 Firebird


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Joe, a '65 GTO will never be as safe for you and your wife as a modern car. It has no air bags, no sacrificial crumple zones around the torque box, the dash is not designed to shift out of the way as it gives up energy, and the engine isn't designed to slip under the car and out of the way of the cabin/torque box area in the advent of a collision. Old school, body on frame cars involved in collisions tend to allow the occupants to keep moving after the vehicle stops, resulting in injuries. I think that since your main concern here is your wife's safety, you should sell the car.


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## Chooko (Mar 29, 2012)

Well, GeeTeeOhGuy is certainly right about all that. In fact, no matter what car you drive you accept a certain amount of risk every time you get into any seat in the vehicle. That being said, this car will never be my daily driver. I realize that I am accepting more risk every time I drive it than I do when I drive a newer car, my '05 for example. For the amount and type driving that I intend to do with my '65, I think I could accept the risk if some concessions were made to safety. Modern disk brakes, modern tires, and rebuilt/upgraded suspension are all things that come quickly to my mind that would improve the safety of the vehicle by making it less likely to get into an accident in the first place, and all of those things are on my list. But the shoulder belt thing is a necessity in my mind, and I am sure that someone else has retrofitted them into an early Goat before me. I am looking for information on how this has been achieved in the past. So who has done it?


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## rickm (Feb 8, 2012)

i understand your concern for your wife n family,but you cant think like that. I rode a '59 pan for many years. motorcycling is way more dangerous then riding in my '65 coupe. all the cool old cars are like that. don't let life pass you by. enjoy that gto. you and your wife.


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## crustysack (Oct 5, 2008)

there is no mount on the roofline for a shoulder belt, one can be installed and the the roof reinforced in this area- it will be sketchy at best. the best thing will be to run the harnessess that are bolted to the contact points behind the REAR seats. Autoloc sells them.These are very cumbersome and ugly but the best crash protection. You will NEVER come close to modern car safety- seat belts were an OPTION in 65- as geeteeohguy has said no crumple zones etc, You should be much more worried about the non-collapsing steering column that will be piercing your chest on that front impact than your wife banging her head on the dash.


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*Need a shoehorn to get in it....*

I'd put my money on the '65 for fairing better after a crash. There are massive amounts of steel there, as opposed to tin and plastic comprising these new vehicles! These new "things" *NEED* air bags, crumple zones, "Saran Of Wrapburg" windshields :lol: and all that, to compensate for the inherent lack of integrity built into these "vehicles" as standard equipment. No crumple zone required for you when you turn the thing you hit into an accordion, and they become "one" with their ride! I'm more afraid to drive a cramped up new POS, for fear of hitting the woman in the mouth with my elbow as I negotiate a curve in the road. Now *THAT* is the scary part! That's my opinion on the situation. Put your lap belts on, and duct tape a pillow to the dash on your wifes side.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

OP, you are right on on your other points...if you are concerned spend the money on new front power disc brakes and steering and make the car safer by stopping in a shorter distance and more maneuverable.

:agree With G on the integrity, I hit a stationary chrysler K car in my 69' firebird at 40 MPH on black ice, no braking. The "beak" of the bird turned the chrysler into a true notchback, the bumper was a V nearly to the rear seat. All i had to get for my bird was a radiator support chrome bumper w/brackets and the hood. I call the A-frames 3 passenger trunk an adequate crumple zone in the back. 

The joy i get from driving my car is well worth any perceived danger from it. In my experience most people give more cushion in following a classic car and in turn i give myself more space in following the cars in front of me.

I would probably worry more about the Fieros, they are a plastic wedge, buddies dad worked at the GM tech center told us stories about them putting the turbo 6 in them from grand nationals, they were flipping them over like pancakes.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Agreed. That's what I said what I did. Life has risks. The more fun, generally, the more risk involved. I drive a horrendously unsafe 1915 Ford Model T. No brakes to speak of, and a mile high. Kerosene tail lamp, bulb horn. My real worries aren't my car, but other inattentive drivers on the road. I ride motorcycles too, and have been hit by distracted/idiot drivers. I also drive a truck on occasion as part of my job, and have a CDL. The stuff I see on the roadways when driving the truck amazes me. People in new cars with bluetooth, video screens, cruise control, ABS brakes, yaw control, etc. are totally and completely insulated from the driving experience and reality. They are pretty much clueless. As a professional driver, I drive ALL my vehicles with the task of driving priority number one. It helps that I actually love driving. A lot of folks don't. Those are the ones that will take you out, no matter what vehicle you are driving. If you want to drive an old car, drive it accordingly. Don't tailgate. Be polite. Be alert. The idea of making a 50 year old car 2013 crash-standard compliant is unrealistic. Sell the old car if you feel uncomfortable, or be aware of what you are driving and drive accordingly and enjoy life.


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## leeklm (Mar 11, 2012)

The aftermarket seatbelt companies do sell a self-retracting shoulder/lap belt that can be mounted in the reinforced side panel area under the rear qtr window. You end up drilling a 1" or so hole, insert the bracket behind the panel, then weld into place. Granted, this may not be an ideal scenario, but much better than nothing IMO. Even in a somewhat minor crash, say at 35mph, I will take the shoulder belt every time.

I was looking to do this in my 66, but got lucky in that my later model 66 had the factory mounting holes under the headliner near the coat hanger, same as the 67.


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## richclas (Apr 28, 2012)

My 1965 convertible is my daily driver. I put disk brakes and and a fuel injected motor in it to make it more user friendly and safer. Of course I have big radial tires. My girl friend was driving at 80MPH and the front right tire blew out. She kept the GTO straight and had no problem pulling off to the side. I don't know what would have happened with a more modern car. But the GTO came through like a trooper. My modern ML500 Mercedes is booooring. I don't like to drive it because I feel completely isolated from the road. I find myself grinning when I put the top down and cruze in my GTO! Never happens in a modern ride. Plus people are nice to me in traffic. They let me in and they give me space. That keeps me safe.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

gjones said:


> I'd put my money on the '65 for fairing better after a crash. There are massive amounts of steel there, as opposed to tin and plastic comprising these new vehicles! These new "things" *NEED* air bags, crumple zones, "Saran Of Wrapburg" windshields :lol: and all that, to compensate for the inherent lack of integrity built into these "vehicles" as standard equipment. No crumple zone required for you when you turn the thing you hit into an accordion, and they become "one" with their ride! I'm more afraid to drive a cramped up new POS, for fear of hitting the woman in the mouth with my elbow as I negotiate a curve in the road. Now *THAT* is the scary part! That's my opinion on the situation. Put your lap belts on, and duct tape a pillow to the dash on your wifes side.


You'd think that, but watch this....


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## gjones (Oct 8, 2012)

*Let's try that one again...*

Yeah. Those '59's had that crappy x frame, too. Absolutely no frame up front to speak of. Looked around briefly on the net for an old gto crash test, but I guess no one wants to ruin a perfectly good gto. I would like to see that test done with a '65 GTO and a vehicle which everyone seems to be driving these days, like a Prius, Fiat Punto, a Smart car, virtually any VW, a (ha, ha) Mini Cooper, how about a KIA Rio. How about a common Nissan, even? Oh well. I really don't want to sound glib, but it is what it is. Sure, Chooko could have shoulder harnesses installed, air bags installed, or what have you, at a cost. If I was that concerned with it, and had the cash, I'd have it done, myself. If someone was that concerned with "modern safety", they would plunk down the $35,000-$60,000+ for the current technology available, and avoid driving an old vehicle. An old vehicle that isn't being monitored and governed by a "little black box" that tracks your every move and speed, and reports it to your insurance company, or worse, that can be remotely "tampered with", and explode before it hits trees, or when the brakes won't stop you when it accelerates to 120 by itself, or won't shut down the ignition with the key. I'll take my chances, thank you very much! :willy:


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## danthepontiacman (Jul 5, 2008)

that video is an example of what a car company does to make themselves look better, you pick the car with the weakest frame of almost any car from the 50's and 60's and put it into the front of a factory reinforced car to make it look (safer( try wreaking a 58 buick that had the perimeter frame with the x frame in the center into a new car ot maybe a 1967 gm A body (67 had energy absorbing columns and 68 was an even safer design) and put shoulder belts in it then lets see what happens in a head on crash. a old car can be more safe then a new car with less safety features:cool I always feel safer in my tempest then in any new car, the steel is so dang hard you got to predrill a hole to mount a radiator overflow bracket even when using self drilling screws! lets see what happens when that hits a new car at speed.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Chooko is long gone, guys.


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## Bensjammin66 (May 12, 2009)

If one were to not care about retaining original seats, a 2005 CTS seats are nice leather. They fit with some work and have built in shoulder belts in them. Black leather, power front to back, best of everything but without the cool arrowhead covers that your '65 has. Though someone could probably make them to cover the CTS seats. The way I explained it to my girlfriend was this.. Do people wear seatbelts on motorcycles? No. But the joy of cruising them out weighs the risk of the consequesnces from a collision on a bike or in an old car. Yes it could happen.. But DONT sell your rag top goat cause of something that MIGHT happen! There are other options! KEEP THE GTO!!


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