# My car burned in a shop fire



## [email protected] (Apr 13, 2009)

So my 6 year restoration project was finally nearly completion. In 2009 I was the proud new owner of a 66 lemans that had been cloned to a GTO. It was a 4 speed, convertible, and drove onto my trailer when I bought it and that was the last time I saw it drive. 

I brought it to the painters and they were working on it. Then there was a fire in their shop. I'm still not sure of the damage but the shop owner informed me my car was "heavily damaged." I talked to the insurance adjuster on monday and I would like to prepare for some expert opinions on what I need to know about collecting on a claim like this. It's not going to be my auto insurance it will be the fire insurance of the shop. I am also preparing to not have the proper value of the car estimated. The first thing the agent asked me, "was your car driveable" when it came in?" Well no but after 2000 hours of work or so it needed about 10 hours more before it would be driving. But I have a strong feeling this will not be reflected in the value of the car. 

It was a frame off, I pretty much repaired, replace, and/or upgraded every single bolt on it. The was blasted to bare metal, primed, body work done, POR 15 every nook and cranny that wouldn't see the sun and eastwood rust encapsulate anything else that would, and it was waiting for paint. Engine and transmission were rebuilt. Engine had not yet been fired up but all it needed was a distributer and fuel lines hook up. It also need the top installed, emblems and the interior are at my house waiting to be installed. It had a 400 out of a later model with ram air 4 heads on it. I also have a feeling the insurance will value it as a "lemans" and "GTO" will never enter their estimation. Ideally I'd like it classified as a "non numbers matching GTO" but I don't think that will be happening. 

Does anybody have any opinions on the best way to go about this? Has anybody else experience anything similar and things I should know before going into this?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Well, that really sucks. 

What I would put together are your original purchase price, receipts, and photos of the car as purchased and all the phases of work you did to it. The more receipts you have the better. What may be hard to prove are the hours you put into it and what cost in a labor rate you would be compensated for. You might want to break some of this down into smaller "chunks" and then get estimates from a shop that could do the work, for example, strip frame down, sandblast, prime/paint. If you rebuilt the suspension or brakes, I'd show the receipt for all the parts, then have a shop give you a labor estimate to R&R suspension or brakes noting "customer supplied parts." This may at least give you some notion of what your labor is worth.

My guess is that it will be based on a Lemans and not a GTO as it isn't. It may be a fight OR the insurance company may offer a good settlement. I recall one member here had his '65 GTO rear-ended and totaled out. He too did a lot of his own work. The insurance company gave him a settlement that was above what he had into it, so he was happy with what he received.

You might want to see if the car could be brought back and get an estimate on what that would cost. 

Lastly, if you did not get a fair settlement from the insurance company, I would file a claim/lawsuit in court against the shop owner as he has a personal liability in this as well, so a talk with a lawyer might be wise before you settle on anything.

I had my 1956 Pontiac totaled out when I was a kid. Did a lot of work myself, had the car painted, seats recovered, and added a few original options. It was a nice looking, driving & dependable car. Had my receipts. The drivers insurance company said it was only worth $200 (in 1978). I argued with them showing them my receipts. So they gave me $300 and told me I could keep the car. If I had known now what I didn't then, I might have come out a lot better. So the insurance offer could be a good one for you, or you might have to fight a little to get a better settlement.


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## [email protected] (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. I realize the car isn't a real GTO. I do hope it's valued more than just a lemans though because it is not really that either But we will see how that goes. 

It was Macco. I was going to keep that part a secret because all the preconceived notions about cheap macco paint jobs but the cat is out of the bag now. I really don't want lawyers involved. Maybe if the shop owner was completely careless and negligent but if it's accident, I think I would rather just take less money for my car. Everybody hates frivolous law suits until they see potential dollar signs for themselves. I still appreciate the advice though. 

This gives me a few ideas on what to do. I will see what happens on monday.


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## Hallett Dave (Apr 29, 2016)

Macco should have *Garage-Keeper's Insurance*.
Do some research on Garage-Keeper's Insurance.
Have your insurance company check into this.
Don't let the shop or your insurance provider off the hook.
Pursue this incident to the MAX. 
I feel for you and I hope the outcome is in your favor.
Dave


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Every receipt, every photo, every shred of evidence you might have that can back up how much money and time you've put into this car can only help.

Bear


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## stich (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm sorry for your loss. On a side note, will you be buying it back from the insurance co? Have you seen the car yet? Is there anything salvageable from it? I'm still looking for a good frame for my '67 vert and may be interested if it's salvageable. Please let me know.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I had a $250 '63 Bug that a guy backed into while I was parked. His insurance company said my car wasn't worth the $1000 estimated to fix it. I said "That's fine. All you need to do is return my car to the same condition it was before your client backed into it. I don't need it restored or upgraded----it just needs to look just like it did before he hit it." They cut me a check for the $1000. Not your fault the shop burned, not your problem. You need to establish how much a LeMans like yours would cost to replace or return to pre-burn condition. Your receipts, and your TIME all need to be documented here. You're probably looking at around 20k I would think, in today's world.


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## [email protected] (Apr 13, 2009)

stich said:


> I'm sorry for your loss. On a side note, will you be buying it back from the insurance co? Have you seen the car yet? Is there anything salvageable from it? I'm still looking for a good frame for my '67 vert and may be interested if it's salvageable. Please let me know.


Unless it's a pile of melted metal I will be buying it back. Thanks anyway though. 

I kept some of the bigger receipts but not all and have almost no pictures........I know I know. I can't even come close to estimating how much time I have into the car. It was a 6 year restore. Sometimes I didn't touch it for a year. Sometimes I worked on it 40 hrs a week...........My best guess, 2,000-3,000 hrs? A good portion of that time being "learning curve" hours. 

I will look into the garage keepers insurance. There was quite a few parts that were still in my garage, interior, convertible top, top motor, bumpers, all the trim and emblems. That stuff really starts to add up. So even if the car is a pile of melted metal I will probably try to find another car like mine that needs restoring with the parts I already have. That decision will of course be based on what my car actually looks like. 

Thanks for the advice on the garage keepers insurance. I will keep that in mind. 

I have an open mind. It might end up being a good thing. I made plenty of screws ups I would do differently on my next time around.......This might be my chance. The ironic part is I don't like firebirds all that much but I LOVE the firebird emblem. I have at least a dozen things with the firebird emblem on them. People always ask, "why do you have a firebird shirt if you have a GTO." Now I can tell people, "it's not a firebird, it's the phoenix because the car rose out of the ashes to live again!"............I might even have to paint a giant gold firebird that covers the entire hood.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I lost my 65 Satellite to a fire and it was a total loss. Most are when burned because it warps metal, frame included you don't want a frame from a burned car. My car (which I had 5 years and 15K+ invested in) was insured for liability only unfortunately. I was able to claim it as a loss by fire on my taxes though which gave me about 3K, better than nothing. Made about 3K in selling what was left and then someone I had shown my parts to broke into my storage and stole everything else I had all my spare parts.

Also don't take a check unless it is the check you want. Don't let them cut you a check and say they will cut another one later. Find similar cars for sale for price references and include those with your receipts. Also watch what you post online don't think insurance company won't check forums.


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## El Monte Slim (Sep 8, 2014)

Do NOT try to file a claim as a "GTO". The VIN is a Lemans and you could be accused of "insurance fraud".

You say that you "cloned" a GTO from a 66 Lemans. Did you change the tail panel and make the other required sheet metal changes to look like a GTO?

There's nothing wrong with a Resto-Mod Lemans, especially a ragtop!

Good luck on your claim, put up a good fight!


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## [email protected] (Apr 13, 2009)

El Monte Slim said:


> Do NOT try to file a claim as a "GTO". The VIN is a Lemans and you could be accused of "insurance fraud".
> 
> You say that you "cloned" a GTO from a 66 Lemans. Did you change the tail panel and make the other required sheet metal changes to look like a GTO?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the mentioning that and I most definitly would never tell an agent it's a GTO. Even an honest mistake in that case would be a very bad one. I also didn't say I "cloned" the lemans to a GTO. I said I bought it that way. Previous owner had changed the grille, hood, taillights, some of the side trim, and the interior. There is nothing wrong with a lemans, nothing wrong with a tempest, or nothing wrong a "clone" car. I didn't care if numbers match, what the emblems read, who I thought I needed to impress, or how many times I had to answer the, "Is that a real GTO?" I bought it because it was a good looking car that needed restoration. I didn't restore it to match factory specs, I restored it make it look like I wanted it to look. Some people wanted a 100% factory car right down to points. Some people want a chip foose custom. Some people even put a cummins diesel in their classic car. For them or anybody else I say do whatever floats your boat. Which however I end up with my burned car or the next car I buy I will do just that.


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## El Monte Slim (Sep 8, 2014)

Sorry, I just didn't pick up on the fact that you acquired the car already cloned.

It's just a darn shame that all that hard work was lost. Really do hope you can get a fair settlement. This does help point out the value of documenting your work with photos.

It used to be very common even "back in the day" to see a Lemans with a GTO hood. I was told that you couldn't hardly find a GTO hood in the wrecking yard cause they would be sold as soon as they came in!

I had a good friend that had a very nice Lemans. He would always lament the fact that it was a Lemans rather than a GTO. I used to keep reminding him that the Lemans was beautiful with its own unique styling and was just as nice to drive and ride in. I bet he wishes he still had it now!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

My very first ride in a performance Pontiac was in a friend's '67 LeMans with a 326 and a 4 speed, with rally gauges. It was a really fast car. I was all set to buy it, but ended up trading my motorcycle straight up for a '66 GTO with a 400, 4 speed, console, gauges, and posi at a party a few weeks later. GTO's were so cheap and common back then, I kept buying them. My cheapest one was a 64,000 mile '65 Hardtop for $850, and my most expensive one was the '67 ragtop I still have, for $1800. LeMans's and Tempests in similar condition went for about the same money back then....maybe $100 less. This was late '70's--early '80's.....


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## Destro23 (Aug 4, 2016)

I'm new here and just read through the thread... Hint of the day... Don't call it a clone car.... It's a "tribute" car and then go to hemmings and look up GTO tribute cars as reference. As far as your hours worked on it, it doesn't matter one bit to them so I wouldn't mention that to much. As far as the state of the car. The paint job was to complete the multiple year restoration(because that's what you always do last). And you now want the value of a completed car back. That's all. Keep it simple. Doesn't matter if car was 'technically' drive able because you were waiting on a few parts. Just say after the paint job.... The car restoration was complete.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## G8assassin (Apr 15, 2015)

So sorry for your loss! Although my 1966 Lemans project wasn't in a fire, the shed that held a ton of parts for it was. Unfortunately, my homeowners insurance did not cover any car parts! So that was an unexpected out of pocket expense tacked on to my build budget. Still looking for rear seat back for sale. Bottom was in my other shed.

Anyway, I hope everything turns out in your favor. Keep us all posted.

-KB-


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Have examined quite a few burned up A body's and been very picky on ones I have bought or took in on trade. Light burns are one thing, fenders and a hood, most like dash sheetmetal, bezel, etc, not that difficult. Crispy critters, w rear body panels distorted from heat, bowed rear axle housings, melted cowl tags, totally different...major nightmare. As far as decided value, best to you recouping effort... tons of hours put into the build, the history is, incomplete "clones" only bring so much. 

Have a truck and trailer, the following may be interesting start over point. https://mohave.craigslist.org/cto/5684610405.html


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your car, I have a van and 3 people and 3 dogs and no extra driver so I will have to leave my GTO in the garage and hope it doesn't burn.
We are under voluntary evac. right now, here is a pic of the VLAT flying over my house.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

These VLAT pilots must have titanium balls, when the DC-10 drops a load they hit the throttle and shove the wheel all the way forward to compensate for the loss of the load.
They then pull back when they feel the nose of the aircraft start to drop.
This is all done by the seat of their pants!
I can't imagine doing that when they are this low!
Look at the flaps in this pic to keep them in the air this low and slow.


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## 1968gto421 (Mar 28, 2014)

Goat Roper said:


> Sorry to hear about your car, I have a van and 3 people and 3 dogs and no extra driver so I will have to leave my GTO in the garage and hope it doesn't burn.
> We are under voluntary evac. right now, here is a pic of the VLAT flying over my house.


Here's hoping all works out will for you and your family and the GTO. After all you've been through, to lose it to fire would suck in the worst way.


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## Goat Roper (Oct 28, 2014)

1968gto421 said:


> Here's hoping all works out will for you and your family and the GTO. After all you've been through, to lose it to fire would suck in the worst way.


If we have to evacuate my plan is to park it out in the middle of the golf course and hope for the best.
During the Slide Fire the golf course is where the fire stopped so that is my plan.
If they tow it so be it at least it won't burn.

Two VLATs just flew over my house at treetop level and shook the windows.
Fire is now at 7,861 Acres – 64% Contained.


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