# 04-06 GTO Woes?!



## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

Since I've been on this forum, I have learned of many issues dealing with the 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO's. Paint flaking door handles, bubbles in paint on steering wheels, strut rub-tires blowing out, traction control not working properly, ignition problems, rear seats splitting, crappy bending of exhaust system, water leaking rear window area, sqeeking under hood-idler pulley, Stereo problems cd player, shifting noises, burning oil, battery problems(lack of use, old from sittin' on lot too long), gauge clusters being replaced etc. I know i've missed some. please feel free to add. Fortunately, I have expeirenced none of these issues, knock on wood. Did the firebirds and trans ams have these many issues? Or if they did, were they cured/fixed over time. I know the new age GTO only had a three year run and maybe it didnt have enough time to get all the kinks out!? I know the old saying goes, you get what u pay for, but do the Corvettes even have issues like the goats. If they had four doors, i would try to save my pennies in a couple years before retirement and purchase one of them.

I know there is alot of Ford guys on this forum or those who know more about the mustangs than I do. Do the stangs today have these kind of problems or any issues? So that I can sleep better at night. There is so many on the road these days, everywhere i turn, there goes a stang!

How about the new age Dodge Chargers. They are nice looking cars, it kinda grew on me. I use to be a huge Dodge Ram fan/owner and was wondering about the chargers as well. I know they don't have the performance like the goat and to come close to the goat one would have to buy the SRT-8 which is kinda growin' on me, but is way more expensive than the goat. 

The new upcoming camaro. I like camaro's but always bought the firebird instead. So, if the new camaro can outperform our goats without living paycheck to paycheck it might be worth lookin' into. Then again, maybe wait until they decide to make a gto or firebird off of the same platform and maybe the bugs will be worked out and hoping they will give the T/A more horsepower. 

Don't get me wrong. Out of all the vehicles I have had, this goat is by far the most bad [email protected]$! I'm just afraid she is gonna fall apart on me after readin' all these issues on her, making me wonder if I should too make a move while she is still in top condition? I would like to keep her in the barn for awhile, and maybe one day near retirement purchase a goat of old in red so they can sit side by side in the barn or one day purchase another New-New age goat to keep my 06 company. If anyone has any thoughts on what I have to say, please share it with me. Hopefully some of you can put my mind at ease rather make me wanna go charger or stang shopping. Thanks to all.:cheers


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## rcu316 (Jan 28, 2007)

NJgoat said:


> The new upcoming camaro. I like camaro's but always bought the firebird instead. So, if the new camaro can outperform our goats without living paycheck to paycheck it might be worth lookin' into. Then again, maybe wait until they decide to make a gto or firebird off of the same platform and maybe the bugs will be worked out and hoping they will give the T/A more horsepower.


Camaro's FTW! I have had Camaros from 69 models to the 1997 model. I traded the 97 for the GTO to hold me until 2010 or so. I have been looking at Trailblazer SS's but it isn't going to happen. My wife said what about the Camaro? I said come around 2010 or 2011 when the prices calm down I plan to get one. I will probably just keep the GTO until then.


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

NJgoat said:


> I know the new age GTO only had a three year run


The basic GTO is old as dirt. You first saw it here as the Cadillac Catera:

Cadillac Catera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you haven't noticed, not too many left (issue after issue).

That Catera was an Opel Omega (2nd gen) that was built 1993 - 2003. It's all there in the 'wiki' Pontiac GTO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problems with this car come from a lack of quality control and trying to make a single platform do everything. Low production numbers are also part of it I think.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

s'funny but usually at the end of a vehicles product cycle they have all the bugs worked out but I agree...it came late in life when they tried to stretch the platform to be yet another vehicle...the Pontiac GTO...love mine...
Bill


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Our GTO come from the GM division in Australia- you all know that. So it's been around for more than 3 years.
The Mustang guys overall respect the modern GTO and recognize its power over the stock GT's. The Mustang guys also recognize it's european interior fit and finish as superior to the Mustang GT. 

What I hear over and over again is the lack of parts that will eventually be extinct for our GTO as compared to the infinite Gt parts, and the American Muscle ride is more fun in the Mustang- a better connection and feel to the road I suppose. The 5 speed seems better at this connection than our 6M.
After driving a 2007 GT for 100 miles, I can confirm that it's major fun to drive this thing.
That European influence on our GTO however signifies a lack of the purist vision of what an American Muscle Car is- acoording the the Mustang guys. 
I've been on the Mustang Forum because I am still considering the switch to a Bullitt 2008.
Just restating what I read on the Mustang forums so don't shoot the messenger.

I love the GTO but I have the same fear as as NJGOAT and as some of you know, I still have the reliability issue looming over me. 

I'm not really into the new Camaro design- look too terminatorish for me.
I've always had Firebirds so I too would wait and see what one of those babies looks like. 
It's all good in the neighborhood.


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## macgto7004 (Jul 22, 2007)

NJ, I hear what you're saying, but, as with your expirience, I have not had alot of the issues, and quite frankly, my 04 has been a very reliable ride.
When I bought mine, I put myself in the "pre-owned" state of mind. I knew my goat was used, and with any used car, I didn't expect it to be perfect, and it wasn't.
My car came with 17s, but I have had no strut rub issues. No problems with the stereo, battery, steering wheel, oil issues, shifter rattle, etc. My goat had 27k on the clock when I bought it, and have 34k on it now after about 14 months of driving excitment.
I did have warped front rotors which I attributed to the a**hat dealer constantly swapping wheels on the car in an effort to try and makes some "value added" sales $$. I had to replace a tie rod end and strut bushings. I do have the door handle paint peeling issue, but that will be attended to eventually.
I don't know what the future hold for my goat, but as of now, I have yet to have any issues that would make me consider getting rid of it. Even with all the hype about the new Camaro, I would never sell the goat in favor of that. I do like the look of the new Mustangs, but I have never been one to be part of the crowd. And in a Mustang, you are one of many.

The GTO is a fast, stylish, head turning beast, with one of the best interiors on the planet. Minor problems be damned, I ain't givin up the goat!

Russ


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## ls7gto (Feb 2, 2008)

well stangs here i go: most stangs can live up to modern ford reliablility, but the 4.0l v6 engine can give a few problems, It based on a engine platform thats almost 10 yrs old!, the gt with the 4.6 v8 can be no problem, although the 5-speed tranny may be tricky at times. the color changing instrument panel may have to be replaced after a year, when you get to the gt500, mpg may be another problem, thats all i know for now


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## 06brazengto (Sep 21, 2007)

well luckey i have not had any problems yet,
only 153 miles though,
only thing is the battery,but that cause the car sits a lot,
have to put it on the charger.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

raspantienator said:


> Our GTO come from the GM division in Australia- you all know that. So it's been around for more than 3 years.
> The Mustang guys overall respect the modern GTO and recognize its power over the stock GT's. The Mustang guys also recognize it's european interior fit and finish as superior to the Mustang GT.
> 
> What I hear over and over again is the lack of parts that will eventually be extinct for our GTO as compared to the infinite Gt parts, and the American Muscle ride is more fun in the Mustang- a better connection and feel to the road I suppose. The 5 speed seems better at this connection than our 6M.
> ...


Yea, I read that our competitor mustang will be gaining some horsepower shortly in my issue of motor trend magazine. They are saying 315HP in '09. They are also saying 400hp is coming for the GT and possibly 500HP. They are even saying the Camaro could end up with 500HP after the initial release. Man, competition is gonna get tight before the goverment puts a end to it. Guess, that means more mods for the beloved goat!!!


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

biggest problem I see that's not fixable is the horrible depreciation- - -

Someone commented about Corvettes; they do not have a good reputation as reliable cars. I suspect too many bells and whistles, and something is always breaking, with Corvette parts very expensive.

I'm undecided (but I've been undecided for over a year now) as to whether this Spring I'm keeping or selling. I bought the 7 year GMAC warranty, but still, the lack of service knowledge at the dealerships, and also lack of parts for these cars is a big issue to me.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

NJgoat said:


> Yea, I read that our competitor mustang will be gaining some horsepower shortly in my issue of motor trend magazine. They are saying 315HP in '09. They are also saying 400hp is coming for the GT and possibly 500HP. They are even saying the Camaro could end up with 500HP after the initial release. Man, competition is gonna get tight before the goverment puts a end to it. Guess, that means more mods for the beloved goat!!!


I drove that 400hp Mustang at a special event that Ford had for my old boss last summer at Buttonwillow. They had a GT500KR prototype, a GT500 a couple of tuner Mustangs and some tuner trucks. My old boss has a huge collection (couple million dollars since 2003) of Ford cars and they were trying to sell him and a couple other high rollers more cars. 

They had this one car that the engineers were all playing with and it wasn't really for my boss or any of the other people that showed up to drive. I had my Vette there and convinced one of the engineers that it would be a good trade to let him drive my base suspension A6 Vette that was consistantly beating their GT500 if he let me drive this car that they were all calling the Boss GT. 

Long story short, it was a 5.4L aluminum block, they said it had around 390 hp and would be available for 2009. The car has the GT500 brakes which are awesome. A 6 speed from the GT500 and a suspension set up that was better than the GT500 for a road course. I had to have an engineer in the car with me but he was pretty cool about allowing me to drive the car to it's potential. 

I actually liked that car better than the GT500. You could real easily overpower the GT500's suspension. The Boss felt real balanced. It was fast too. I was almost able to beat the times I was getting in the GT500 that was there. 

One of the engineers said they thought the car was going to price out at 32,000 to 38,000 with options and be available for 2009.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

noz34me said:


> biggest problem I see that's not fixable is the horrible depreciation- - -
> 
> Someone commented about Corvettes; they do not have a good reputation as reliable cars. I suspect too many bells and whistles, and something is always breaking, with Corvette parts very expensive.
> 
> I'm undecided (but I've been undecided for over a year now) as to whether this Spring I'm keeping or selling. I bought the 7 year GMAC warranty, but still, the lack of service knowledge at the dealerships, and also lack of parts for these cars is a big issue to me.


My 02 Z06 was horrible. My 06 had the differential problem and the top delaminated. Other than those two issues it was perfect. 

I've talked to many Vette owners. Most Vettes are perfect and extremely reliable. If you get one that isn't, like my Z06, they just continously give you problems.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

The Charger has had some issues too. Guys have had problems with the transmission in them. I think Chrysler has that sorted out now, but I'd be afraid that they sorted some or all of the problem out by increasing torque management. I've heard of all sorts of random issues that don't show up in all the cars too.

The Mustangs have some issues too. Not a lot. Rattles, the dash issues and I've heard a couple stories on brakes. 

Kinda like the GTO's and Vettes and well just about any performance car out there. When you push the limits of technology you end up with some issues. 

Ask Groucho about his GTI. Car and Driver did a long term test and they found their GTI to use 6 quarts of oil in 40,000 miles. VW says that's normal unless it's more than 1 quart per 1,000 miles. Most of the owners C&D talked to had also used a bunch of oil. Everyone with a GTI has rattles from the dash, seats and just about everywhere. One guy said that if you leave the hatch open for too long windshield washer fluid leaks out till it drains the tank empty. The idea is GTI owners know what they are getting into by buying a VW.

The GTO has it's issues. They are pretty well known. As you work through them they go away unlike the GTI that never seems to stop having issues or the Charger that has random issues that aren't the same on each car so you don't know what to expect. 

If you are going to buy a high performance car you need to expect that it's pushing the envelope in some way. The car's going to need a trip to the dealer every once and a while no matter what brand you buy.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

fergyflyer said:


> The Charger has had some issues too. Guys have had problems with the transmission in them. I think Chrysler has that sorted out now, but I'd be afraid that they sorted some or all of the problem out by increasing torque management. I've heard of all sorts of random issues that don't show up in all the cars too.
> 
> The Mustangs have some issues too. Not a lot. Rattles, the dash issues and I've heard a couple stories on brakes.
> 
> ...


That makes me feel better. Thanks fergyflyer, Still with the horse power you cant get a better bang for your buck!! I do love my goat. I just wish they kept making them.


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## ZXGTO.com (Jan 18, 2008)

THANK YOU FERGYFLYER!! for clearing it up for everyone. All you guys talk about selling your goat because of some stupid little problem like the paint on the door handles rubbing off. The GTO is a 400hp sports car. Its not a honda civic. If you want that 100% perfect never no problem everyday car i hear that honda is giving some good deals now.


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## Lapres_3 (Mar 2, 2007)

Ill chime in here because reliability was a personal dilemma with me. I think that you have to be careful to separate retarded dealers with the actual problems. It isn't fair to say that you have an unreliable car if your transmission grenades 3 times in 6 months. You have an idiotic dealer that doesn't know how to fix anything.

I really wonder sometimes. The people with the Jap cars, are they really more reliable, or have the people been programmed to THINK they are more reliable. If Joe Shmoe bought a Subaru Forester, and had to get the Cats replaced after 11000 miles, would he tell all his friends? The Joe i know didnt... 

Maybe its because i like fixing stuff, or maybe its because i dont consider something i can fix Easily a "reliability issue". Either way, now @ 5000 miles, have not been to the dealer for anything but the free 1100 mile oil change  And i haven't even had to fix anything...

[/Rant]


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

ZXGTO.com said:


> THANK YOU FERGYFLYER!! for clearing it up for everyone. All you guys talk about selling your goat because of some stupid little problem like the paint on the door handles rubbing off. The GTO is a 400hp sports car. Its not a honda civic. If you want that 100% perfect never no problem everyday car i hear that honda is giving some good deals now.


My first of twenty seven cars was a honda accord. I beat the living sh%& out of it, and it kept on runnin. Oh, and no parts bubbled up either. Nor did my several Firebirds and Grand Prix's The only thing I mentoned about reliablity is if the others Mustang, Corvette, trans Ams , camaros of past, etc. had as many problems like the new age gto. Yea the problems are minor except for the strut deal that could kill you. Don't get me wrong I love my GTO, I have not seen any of these problems with my goat. Atleast not yet. The other cars I mentioned, "being Foreign" was becasue of the horse power the things are puttin' out and that they are knockin' on our door.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

NJgoat said:


> Since I've been on this forum, I have learned of many issues dealing with the 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO's. Paint flaking door handles, bubbles in paint on steering wheels, strut rub-tires blowing out, traction control not working properly, ignition problems, rear seats splitting, crappy bending of exhaust system, water leaking rear window area, sqeeking under hood-idler pulley, Stereo problems cd player, shifting noises, burning oil, battery problems(lack of use, old from sittin' on lot too long), gauge clusters being replaced etc. I know i've missed some. please feel free to add.


The rears seats split? who has that happened to and how bad do they split? I have a tiny bubble on the steering right now but it doesn't bother me too much and I have had no other problems with my GTO


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## GTO1_OHIO (Oct 10, 2005)

noz34me said:


> biggest problem I see that's not fixable is the horrible depreciation- - -
> 
> Someone commented about Corvettes; they do not have a good reputation as reliable cars. I suspect too many bells and whistles, and something is always breaking, with Corvette parts very expensive.
> 
> I'm undecided (but I've been undecided for over a year now) as to whether this Spring I'm keeping or selling. I bought the 7 year GMAC warranty, but still, the lack of service knowledge at the dealerships, and also lack of parts for these cars is a big issue to me.


...horrible depreciation? You don't know too much about car prices do you. The GTO's price is not dropping very fast at all. While the retail price of an 04 is still above $18K In comparison, I bought a 2007 Grand Prix GT with a sticker price of $28K with 12k miles for $16,900 5 months ago. And I purchased it from a Pontiac dealer. Now that's horrible depreciation.


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## 04YJ-GTO (Nov 7, 2007)

GTO1_OHIO said:


> ...horrible depreciation? You don't know too much about car prices do you. The GTO's price is not dropping very fast at all. While the retail price of an 04 is still above $18K In comparison, I bought a 2007 Grand Prix GT with a sticker price of $28K with 12k miles for $16,900 5 months ago. And I purchased it from a Pontiac dealer. Now that's horrible depreciation.


:agree

I was at the auction about 3 weeks ago(as I always am) and a 2004 A4 Yellow Jacket GTO with 23,000 miles sold for $16,300, and after you buy the car there is a $200 buyers fee, towing it is another $100(unless you drive it back to your place $20 in gas) then you can add maybe another $150 if the dealer gets it detail and has the oil changed, so the dealer has about $17,000 in the car and that means hes gona try and get atleast $19-20,000 for it. The car had paint work on the drivers side quater panel, but it was done very nice(untrained eye couldn't tell) and the car looked the part, it was %100 bone stock. Just this past friday at another auction I go to a 2004 barbados GTO with 38,000 miles sold for 15,000 so you add the fee+towing+detail and oil change and hes got about $15,500, so he'll probably try and get $17,500-19,000So I don't really see these cars dropping in price as of right now, heck in 2005 or 2006 we passed up the chance to buy 2004 cosmo A4 GTO with 400 miles on it for $20,000, now 2-3 years later a car like that is selling for about $16-18,000 with miles in the 20s-30,000 range. So if anything these cars have held there value or maybe even have gona up in value a little from what I'm seeing


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## Bowdy's GTO (Dec 15, 2007)

ZXGTO.com said:


> THANK YOU FERGYFLYER!! for clearing it up for everyone. All you guys talk about selling your goat because of some stupid little problem like the paint on the door handles rubbing off. The GTO is a 400hp sports car. Its not a honda civic. If you want that 100% perfect never no problem everyday car i hear that honda is giving some good deals now.


:cheers

I've owned an 04 Mustang GT with full bolt-ons, bought it new before the 05 models came out, so got a good deal..was real excited when I got it...then started reading on the mustang forums how the ls1 was basically the GT's daddy, could take alot of abuse and could put out some serious power with a few mods keeping it N/A...Wasn’t into the muscle seen too much before I bought the stang, but wished I had bought a used maro or trans am soon after the GT purchase...IMO the GTO quality is far better! When I turned that Mustang on in the winter...let it warm up and started driving it had all kinds of rattles...not many when it was warm, but still had some...Yeah the mustang was less expensive, but it came with much less hp, tq, and the GTO is much better looking IMO, and GTO has a much better interior! I know there are some problems out there with the Goat...haven't had mine long, but I think it is a killer value for a stock 400hp...400tq, with its looks, ride, and interior! I love it so far, hope you guys don't drop yours for a couple of little issues...


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

Bowdy's GTO said:


> :cheers
> 
> I've owned an 04 Mustang GT with full bolt-ons, bought it new before the 05 models came out, so got a good deal..was real excited when I got it...then started reading on the mustang forums how the ls1 was basically the GT's daddy, could take alot of abuse and could put out some serious power with a few mods keeping it N/A...Wasn’t into the muscle seen too much before I bought the stang, but wished I had bought a used maro or trans am soon after the GT purchase...IMO the GTO quality is far better! When I turned that Mustang on in the winter...let it warm up and started driving it had all kinds of rattles...not many when it was warm, but still had some...Yeah the mustang was less expensive, but it came with much less hp, tq, and the GTO is much better looking IMO, and GTO has a much better interior! I know there are some problems out there with the Goat...haven't had mine long, but I think it is a killer value for a stock 400hp...400tq, with its looks, ride, and interior! I love it so far, hope you guys don't drop yours for a couple of little issues...


Thanks for sharing that, it was some good insight. I wasnt planning of getting rid of her unless another GTO comes out or the Future Pontiac Trans Am has more killer power than my goat. Thanks.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

GTO1_OHIO said:


> ...horrible depreciation? You don't know too much about car prices do you. The GTO's price is not dropping very fast at all. While the retail price of an 04 is still above $18K In comparison, I bought a 2007 Grand Prix GT with a sticker price of $28K with 12k miles for $16,900 5 months ago. And I purchased it from a Pontiac dealer. Now that's horrible depreciation.


There's a bunch of base 2007 Grand Prix's around here (Orlando) with 20-25k on them for 11,995. My guess is if you beat the dealer up you could get a 1 year old GP for 45% of original sticker.

Crossfire's are another one. Those things stickered for real close to 40k when new in 2005 and I see them all day long for 16-19k. 

My C6 lost 30% of it's sticker price in 2 years. 

Let's face it, cars don't hold their value till they get past 3 years old, no matter what kind it is.


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

something that adds to the falling depreciation is discontinuing the model or a major redesign...the Grand Prix, GTO and Crossfire are all gone now...I remember having a '99 Bonneville SSE (last model year for the design) and wanting to trade it within six months on the newer Bonne...my dealer told me that "this model isn't very popular"...I reminded him that according to Pontiac, Chicagoland was THE most popular area for this era Bonneville...of course that didn't bump up their offer and I didn't sell...
Bill


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## LOWET (Oct 21, 2007)

NJgoat said:


> Since I've been on this forum, I have learned of many issues dealing with the 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO's. Paint flaking door handles, bubbles in paint on steering wheels, strut rub-tires blowing out, traction control not working properly, ignition problems, rear seats splitting, crappy bending of exhaust system, water leaking rear window area, sqeeking under hood-idler pulley, Stereo problems cd player, shifting noises, burning oil, battery problems(lack of use, old from sittin' on lot too long), gauge clusters being replaced etc. I know i've missed some. please feel free to add. Fortunately, I have expeirenced none of these issues, knock on wood. Did the firebirds and trans ams have these many issues? Or if they did, were they cured/fixed over time. I know the new age GTO only had a three year run and maybe it didnt have enough time to get all the kinks out!? I know the old saying goes, you get what u pay for, but do the Corvettes even have issues like the goats. If they had four doors, i would try to save my pennies in a couple years before retirement and purchase one of them.
> 
> I know there is alot of Ford guys on this forum or those who know more about the mustangs than I do. Do the stangs today have these kind of problems or any issues? So that I can sleep better at night. There is so many on the road these days, everywhere i turn, there goes a stang!
> 
> ...


MY only problem with my 05 GTO was a loose D/S motor mount, as far as purchasing another car. The New Camaro andd Challenger both suck. I do have an eye open for a new CHEVELLE 2009-2010 if it gets released


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Good point was made about separating the deal issues from the actual car issues. Still, the issues must be present before the fix so whether they are fixable from a reliable service dept. or not, the issues seem to be mounting. 
I still stay my trans clangs to much when casually shifting the car. With 12000 miles on it, I am very nervous about it. Also, my car received a dent on the trunk by the Pontiac symbol which is another reason why I don't want a queen that needs alot of service. We all know that others will not care for our cars like we do. I have demanded that my car was garaged only to find that my request was not followed with a dealer 50 miles away.
In any case, as I just posted on another thread, I share my worries and concerns if this car can go the long haul without yearly extended stays and costs at the dealer.I plan to only drive her maybe 4 grand per year but apparently, there are many issues even with the low milage.


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## noz34me (Dec 15, 2005)

GTO1_OHIO said:


> ...horrible depreciation? You don't know too much about car prices do you. The GTO's price is not dropping very fast at all. While the retail price of an 04 is still above $18K In comparison, I bought a 2007 Grand Prix GT with a sticker price of $28K with 12k miles for $16,900 5 months ago. And I purchased it from a Pontiac dealer. Now that's horrible depreciation.


I think you need a math class. If you want to compare sticker prices, the '05 GTO started at about $34.5K, and you would be lucky to get $18K from a dealer on trade. Do the math. That's near a 50% depreciation in 3 years. 

Comparing sticker prices to what the car is worth is deceving with GM vehicles because almost out the gate, GM is offering rebates on them. 

Think how the '04 owners that "had to have" one at the inception feel after they paid sticker +++++ for a car that after 4 years is worth about $15K.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

silversport said:


> something that adds to the falling depreciation is discontinuing the model or a major redesign...the Grand Prix, GTO and Crossfire are all gone now...I remember having a '99 Bonneville SSE (last model year for the design) and wanting to trade it within six months on the newer Bonne...my dealer told me that "this model isn't very popular"...I reminded him that according to Pontiac, Chicagoland was THE most popular area for this era Bonneville...of course that didn't bump up their offer and I didn't sell...
> Bill


Concerning the Grand Prix, they are not gone yet. You can still get 2008's. Yes, After this year they will be gone to move over for the G8 line. The Grand Prix has been a popular car for pontiac. Sad to see it go. I have had many of them.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Personally, there are too many grand ams on the road which makes it harder for me to appreciate the GTO- I see red grand ams all over the place and they look too similar to the untrained eye and too similar for the trained eye as well. 
They are not in the same league and I don't like being confused with them.
I live central NY where people still buy American-you don't see so many Camrys and Honda's. Pontiac's are the staple here. 
My point-they can't dissapear soon enough!


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

raspantienator said:


> Personally, there are too many grand ams on the road which makes it harder for me to appreciate the GTO- I see red grand ams all over the place and they look too similar to the untrained eye and too similar for the trained eye as well.
> They are not in the same league and I don't like being confused with them.
> I live central NY where people still buy American-you don't see so many Camrys and Honda's. Pontiac's are the staple here.
> My point-they can't dissapear soon enough!


For a nice inexpensive kinda sporty car, the grand ams were nice. I just opted for the Grand Prix due to them being supercharged and my '04 could out run a mustang gt.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I know. My nephew had a red gt that actually had the same heater and radio controls as our GTO. It was a sweet ride but he traded it for a base Acura which had basically nothing to offer the driver. 

I just hate how similar it looks to the GTO-it takes me too long to differentiate between them when I see one coming at me. If I need to stare before seeing it, then I know the common folk can't tell worth a do da. Thats why i wonder when I hear that peoples heads turn when they see the car. My experience is that only the gear head will see it as a GTO and occasionally turn . A sleeper for sure but it's not intentional.


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## ZXGTO.com (Jan 18, 2008)

Rasp go trade your GTO in on that mustang. From the way you talk about it you are not very happy with your goat. Or maybe a grand am! I mean hey they look the same right!


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

I've never heard of any US made GM car with our Blaupunkt radio...I personally don't care what others think about my GTO...I like it...
Bill


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

silversport said:


> I've never heard of any US made GM car with our Blaupunkt radio...I personally don't care what others think about my GTO...I like it...
> Bill


And that's what matters. If you like your car then who cares what anyone else thinks. If you don't, it can turn into a prison, especially if you owe money on it.


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## Bowdy's GTO (Dec 15, 2007)

raspantienator said:


> Personally, there are too many grand ams on the road which makes it harder for me to appreciate the GTO- I see red grand ams all over the place and they look too similar to the untrained eye and too similar for the trained eye as well.
> They are not in the same league and I don't like being confused with them.
> I live central NY where people still buy American-you don't see so many Camrys and Honda's. Pontiac's are the staple here.
> My point-they can't dissapear soon enough!


I'll give ya that from the front the goat has some resemblance to the grand am...but anybody who knows about cars, or better yet, cares about cars will know the difference! yeah you're right to the untrained eye, it might just look like an average car...but who cares about that...the people with the "untrained eye" are typically those who look at cars as a means of transportation, and that's it...they don't care about, or appreciate nice vehicles (GTO's imho)...you couldn't impress them with a Ferrari...those people will probably recognize it, but those people are the ones saying..."who would waste that kind of money on a car!" All I’m saying is that don't worry about being confused with a grand am...I sure as hell don't...those who appreciate nice vehicles will recognize it and respect it...I've had mine for a little over a month...probably only put 250 mi in her, and in that short amount of time have gotten plenty of thumbs up and gawking eyes as I pass...just my thoughts...


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

Bowdy's GTO said:


> I'll give ya that from the front the goat has some resemblance to the grand am...but anybody who knows about cars, or better yet, cares about cars will know the difference! yeah you're right to the untrained eye, it might just look like an average car...but who cares about that...the people with the "untrained eye" are typically those who look at cars as a means of transportation, and that's it...they don't care about, or appreciate nice vehicles (GTO's imho)...you couldn't impress them with a Ferrari...those people will probably recognize it, but those people are the ones saying..."who would waste that kind of money on a car!" All I’m saying is that don't worry about being confused with a grand am...I sure as hell don't...those who appreciate nice vehicles will recognize it and respect it...I've had mine for a little over a month...probably only put 250 mi in her, and in that short amount of time have gotten plenty of thumbs up and gawking eyes as I pass...just my thoughts...


Brings up a good point. Mustangs, well the average Joe, mike, dick, or harry probally wouldnt notice you in a Shelby Mustang/GT500KR from a lame duck 6cyl. Mustang either. There are so many around I dont look hard at them unless they have a nice set of shining wheels or wild paint job that is gleaming in my eyes.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

I enjoy this forum for it allows venting to occur with some good honest feedback.
I can tell you that even today, I just walked in the garage and stared at the GTO- I can clean it from top to bottom, pull up a chair and just stare in awe at it . I appreciate and love the car and I would not have purchased this specialty vehicle if i didn't. I love it, but I'm fearful this may be a mistake as well. Sorry for being so on and off over the darn thing but there have been a rush of quality issues lately and my brief history with the car as many here know has not been good. 
I will continue to seek your comments and ideas will hopefully continue to ask question while adding some mods. I'n not driving her in the winter so that also makes it hard to move past the last rough spot. 

Thanks for listening gentlemen


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

1983 Purchased my first new vehicle.....
Toyota 4x2 truck. Drove it off the lot and other than a steering wheel that split and replaced I put nothing in to it in 5 years other than routine maintenance, then drove it back in 1988 and purchased my 3rd new vehicle...

1988 4Runner. I still have it. Only major thing I had with it was engine seals. From 1988 until now its been routine maintenance. 

Now vehicle #2 was a nightmare. 

1985 Monte Carlo. New on the lot.

1. Metal framework on the door panels poking through the vinyl, was in shop 3 times and after 3rd time i just lived with a little metal piece sticking out of the seams, on both doors.

2. Both outside rear view mirrors wobbled. Every time the passenger door was closed the mirror needed repositioned. 3 mirrors same deal.... I lived with it.

3. Transmission pan gasket needed replaced. Bolts loosened up to the point some were lost.

4. 3 days after car was purchased packed up the family and went to the shore.. Part way there..... the A/C quit working. Went to the beach with no AC. Came home took it in..... the fittings were installed backwards from the factory and all the freon leaked out.

5. A/C again.... going up a hill the air flow changed from vent to defrost. Going down a hill from defrost to vent. I forget what caused that.

6. A/C again...... new compressor
Just a few things in the first summer of ownership.

The car didn't nickel and dime us it hundred, and thousanded us to death.
Traded the car in on a used 1993 Grand-AM. That Grand-AM we had from 1996 until 2004 and we put nothing in that car.

The Monte Carlo I tallied it up when I unloaded it...... with warranty we sunk in well over 3K. When I traded it in.... the headliner was falling down, and the estimate for engine seals were 1000.00. 

That car was my white whale. Purchased it new too........ Many people get one of these mechanical wonders once in their life... To some its their GTO.


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