# 455 swap in a 1964 lemans sport coupe with a 326 ho



## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

First of all thanks for letting me join your forum you guys a great.

Ok so I've got a 64 lemans sport coupe with the 326 ho and a Muncie 4 speed. I just bought a 72 455 YC code out of a Grand Prix sj. I'm ditching the 7m5 heads for 6x-4's I bought. This is where my knowledge stops. 

My questions are: can I swap my flywheel and balancer and timing cover with accessory pulleys from the 326. Now keep in mind this is an early 326. I think 65 on up are different? Also, will a later model balancer i.e. The one from the 455 or a new one work with this 64 timing cover?
Do I have to worry about balance issues with swapping them should be neutral for both yes?

Also all the flywheels for 455's I see for sale assuming I don't use the 326 one are internally balanced or neutral or something what do I need? I'm not going to do a full neutral balance on the crank and rods just leaving that all with the partial unbalance that is stock.

Will I have hood clearance issues with my fiberglass gto hood using a standard quadrajet manifold??

Any other issues I might cross? I'm new to pontiacs


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Welcome to the forum! In reading your post & what accessory parts it appears, you have it would help to know a few more things.

(1) was the '64 LeMans originally factory equipped with AC? Does it have the factory AC metal fanshroud? Does it appear any front sheet metal has been replaced? Asking, as am trying to determine if the LeMans has a 15" deep radiator (& core support) in it, or if a 17 1/2" deep radiator. This is the height of the radiator core. 
(2) engine accessory wise, does the '72 455 still has a good condition 11 timing cover, & is the harmonic damper ( balancer) is in good shape? 

The '68+ damper will only work on the '68 8 bolt timing cover or on the '69 & later 11 bolt timing covers. Pontiac from the early '60's up through 1971 used a myriad of different pulleys & brackets on their v8 engines. The pulley designs are specific to certain years due to certain years design of accessorys. Am very versed in the factory design pulleys/brackets/accessorys, have pulled & stocked newly every design.

The number one issue looming here will be proper engine cooling. '64 model V8 LeMans used an up down flow radiator with both the inlet & outlet on the passenger side. This year of cooling system used the early style of 8 bolt waterpump which has its own minimal style of impeller blades, the combination of this style impeller & this passenger side inlet /outlet radiator allows the coolant enough time for the coolant to exchange heat through the '64 radiator. The later style 8 bolt impeller is much more aggressive & it's use is not recommended with the pass side inlet/outlet radiator. Not worrying about a totally stock appearance under the hood, many have upgraded to their '64's to the considerably more efficient design '66-67 Pontiac deep 4core radiator (drivers side inlet, passenger side outlet). 


If your LeMans radiator support has a 15" tall radiator, I would would pursue the following true upgrades. will note upgrade gets thrown around on this board quite a bit, many times, w/o qualifying as a true upgrade.

(1) To increase cooling capacity, the core support needs to be able to accept a 17 1/2" deep radiatior. If the LeMans only has the standard 15" deep core support, the bottom of the side rails can be extended down to accept the 17 1/2 depth radiator. With the cooling demands of a higher compression 455, as well as the inefficiency of the early design (up/down flow) radiators, this is one of the few instances that I would make the jump to a proper fitting aftermarket Aluminum radiator. There is a huge variety of alum radiators out there. For many owners,nthere is a desire to want a quality unit that fits & properly works. Others only shop by price & try and then haphazardly rig things to "work", often the latter only creates more problems. 

(2) A huge plus of a properly fitting replacement radaitor will be that it accepts a factory fitting fan shroud. From that perspective, I'd look into purchasing a '66-67 17 1/2" radiator like a ColdCase or possibly an older Rodney Red that has never been installed. If the '64 LeMans was only equipped with a finger guard, a proper fitting factory type fan shroud can be sourced. either a repro, or with a tiny modification a '63-64 big Pontiac fan shroud can be used. Will even throw in using an original '64-65 LeMans metal fan shroud, but these typically prove very expensive to find & have shipped in.

2) Accessories. Several choices here....the '64-65 timing cover & a later style cast impeller 8 bolt waterpump can be substituted. The original 6 bolt damper stack if in good shape, as well as the p'64 style pulleys can then be used. this route does have several limitations. the first being, the best cooling is going to be from utilizing the AC application pulleys, smaller diam wp pulley, near 8" diam crank pulley stack. many times, on '64's '65's, all one has will an incomplete non AC damper & wp pulley set. 
Other alternatives are to run the complete accessories on the '72 engine. The main negative, is the '71 & later style PS pump & brackets look totally out of place, but that didnt stop many in the '70's & 80's in their quickee salvage yard engine swaps. In the early 90's I was approached, repeatedly, to put a set of brackets & pulleys together for '65 owners, then '64 owners, eventually '62 to '68 owners, with each desiring to run a '69+ 11 bolt timing cover, yet have accessories under the hood that looked period correct. From this, I came up with the conversion set-up utilizing factory parts, that I've provided many many times. With power steering desired, a correct '67-70 style PS pump & brackets are used, as well as correct fitting pulleys, & two piece alternator straps. In conversion set-ups for manual steering applications, there are two different routes that have gone down both utilizing an 11 bolt timing cover, '68+ style damper & the '68-70 single groove crank pulley. 

As far as the flywheel & clutch go, if the LeMans is being built to put the substantial torque to the ground, I'd purchase a steel 11" flywheel & an 11" clutch disc/ pressure plate & double ck the condition of the Muncie 4spd. Hopefully the original "325" case Muncie has been replaced over the years with a later "010", "660" or "661" case Muncie. The early Muncies have a small pin cluster gear. The pin hole will measure 7/8". The stock early Muncies are notorious for stretching the machinef pin hole & eventually blowing up. With the steel flywheel, there is lot more safety. In a moderate performance 455, the steel flywheel, alone, provides an extra level if safety. Have two new steel flywheels for my 455 HO cars & am about to buy another, that along with a Quicktime blowshield will back up the 451 going in our 400 4spd '72 LeMans Coupe. 

As far as intakes go, there is absolutely zero performance benefit over a stock Q jet intake going with Performer RPM or its chinese clone, unless its mating pair of cast iron heads have been properly ported. Have had hands on experience with several Performer RPMs, two didn't fit worth a flip & had to go to my machinist for gasket surface truing. The Performer RPM is 1 1/4" taller at the front of the carb mounting pad, depending on what air cleaner & filter is used, fit problems are possible. 

Am sure this gives you several parameters to ingest, got to get back to work, will ck back in.


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

Ok so I checked and measured and I have a 17inch core in my radiator I have what appears to be the original shroud which is in good shape but isn't metal, not sure what it is plastic? I've looked at my 64 accessories and on my 64 motor I have a single groove water pump pulley and a crank pulley that has two grooves. The further twoards the radiator groove lines up with water pump groove. The rear groove on crank seems to do nothing? This car has manual steering and wasn't equipped with factory ac however it had an add-on unit in at one time. 


What I intended to was buy a three core aluminum radiator install my shroud and call it good.. I live in central California and it does get fit here 105 degrees plus during summer. The drivers side inlet radiator would be possible I'm not concerned with originality. Would this be a bolt in?

My 72 455 has a good timing cover and good (i presume) balancer but no pulleys or brackets except what looks to be maybe a smog pump bracket or somthing bolted to front of passenger head.

What route do I do you think 326 timing cover and brackets with pulleys and early water pump? Is that crank pulley an ac one. Later I will be adding vintage air.

If I went the 455 later cover route where would I find the brackets and pulleys 

I intend on keeping the quadrajet intake and going FItech fuel injection you think my hood will still close?

Also I probably have an early Muncie but I'll prob wait till it blows or sell it and put the money twoards a later one. As far as flywheels go which should I buy that will work with the 72 crank flange 


Thanks for the help I have so many questions


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

This is the 455 I got got these other pulleys and brackets from i believe a 67 350 however the two groove crank pulley is damaged 

The last pic is of my engine bay now with 326 installed


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## bigD (Jul 21, 2016)

"...If I went the 455 later cover route where would I find the brackets and pulleys..."

PH probably has every pulley and bracket you could possibly need. 

Can also probably find some from others here, and on other Pontiac forums, especially the PY forum, since they have the most members.

I'd definitely change over to the later stuff, since there will be more parts available. 


"...What I intended to was buy a three core aluminum radiator..."

I'd go with a 2-row, with at least 1" wide tubes, rather than a 3-row alum, with the narrow tubes. The 2-row will cool better. A Cold Case, like PH mentioned, is probably one of the best choices. It is said that they even look similar to factory type rads, if painted correctly. 

http://www.lmperformance.com/834367...2TK9tMOf0icixGJJw7Tq3hj3gUJVwF58aAvqDEALw_wcB

http://butlerperformance.com/i-2503...lemansaluminum-radiator-ac-at-ccr-gpg38a.html


"... As far as flywheels go which should I buy that will work with the 72 crank flange "

I think PRW makes the flywheel you need.

http://store.prw-usa.com/1645573-po...vable-crankshaft-pilot-ring-33-lbs-166-teeth/

http://www.jegs.com/i/PRW/228/1645573/10002/-1

You'll also need a pilot bearing or bushing in the end of the crank. Hopefully, your 455 crank was machined for the pilot bearing/bushing. Some were not. 

http://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...ilot-bearing-bop-ppb-126.html?ref=brand:99918

https://www.bopengineering.com/pontiac_replacement_parts3.shtml


"...going FItech fuel injection..."

I, and many others, will recommend a good, properly rebuilt Q-jet carb on your '72 Q-jet intake, rather than FI.

SMI can build what you need.

http://www.smicarburetor.com/products/sfID1/28/sfID2/9/sfID3/100


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Glad to read the LeMans has the 17 1/2 tall radiator support along with what reads like a '66-67 Pontiac V8 Abody AC fanshroud. Thats even better as should have the curved notch to clear the driver side top radiator inlet. 

On the timing cover, pulleys, brackets, if your plan is to stay manual steering, it's going to be a relatively cheap deal. Your '72 engine has an 11 bolt timing cover & a 4 bolt damper, that maybe... is in good shape. It also had a 481040 AC application wp pulley & its mate a 481038 2 groove crank pulley (the one thats bent). You'll need another 481038 crank pulley & either the '71 & up supplemental AC pulley that goes behind the 481038, or you will need two of the round pulley reinforcement plates. One will go behind the 481038 if no supplemental single groove AC pulley. With these pulleys, it's easiest to run a '69-70 reproduction manual steering alt bracket, long bolt, & spacer. These are reproduced & can be picked up for aorox $40 from Ames or Motor City Musclecar (inline Tubes small parts biz). The AC sized wp pulley you have along with its mate will provide best cooling ratio. Don is correct, I have a large pallet rack section dedicated to nice condition factory pulleys, brackets, PS pumps, timing covers, AC brackets, etc. Occasionally I will run out of a certain pulley or bracket, but am constantly reloading. 

If the plan is to go with power steering, it's going to be quite a bit more involved. The 11 bolt Conversion style set-up that I put together consists of specific PS pump brackets, matching pulleys, & a '67-70 PS pump. The conversion set-up works very well for such builds. You can combine with a 90's Jeep GC steering box, an A-body PS pitman arm, & have some really responsive steering. If Power Steering is the plan, feel free & drop me a PM with your phone # & a good time to call, & I can lay out alternatives along with pricing.

On the FITech, I'm not hands on acquainted with their system. I'm a dedicated performance Q-jet guy have been building my own since the late '70's & ability to buy HO Power kits along with the Doug Roe Qjet book. I do believe the FI Tech throttle body takes up no more height than a Q-jet & for best experience you don't want to go with the entry level command center set-up but go with a new aftermarket gas tank with an in tank high pressure pump.


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

Hmm I will look into the quadrajet instead as well. It would be nice to just use that intake anyway.

As far as radiator goes I'll most likely go with that 2 row you mentioned 

I found the prw flywheel on the butler website with the stock Pontiac balance so that's good..

You think I have a 66-67 fan shroud on my car? 


Thanks for all the advice by the way


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

Ah so the water pump pulley I have that came off the 67 350 is the 481040

The crank pulley that's bent is the 481038 and they go together along with that supplemental ac pulley and round spacer that I have and will use because this car will have vintage air

So all I'll have to do is buy another 481038

And an alternator bracket and a spacer?

And this will all work with the 455 11 bolt timing cover 

I'm not running power steering 

You have these for sale?


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

Ok so I don't have the 481040 water pump pulley I have a 9788886xt And when I mounted the bent 481038 it didn't line up with the 9788886 at all. 


So my questions are I can use the supplemental ac pulley I already have? 

I'm replacing the 481038

And buying a 481040. Correct?

And this alternator bracket?

I do want ac someday and don't want power steering


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

Answered my own question I guess the ac companion pulley is indeed the 71-78 ac pulley number 480509xs


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

good to see you have the 480509 AC pulley, will help if you go VA. VA makes a bracket set-up to line up with the '71+ pulleys.

Have quite a few 481038 pulleys, need to look this weekend but may have a new in the bag repro '69+ manual strg bracket, spacer & bolt, have bought quite a few of those @ whls. On a radiator, I'd look at which one closely mimics the dimensions of the original 17 1/2 tall radiator, that way the '66-67 fanshroud fits up tight.


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

Ah do you happen to have a water pump pulley as well?


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## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Yes, have both pulleys in good shape. Cking for manual strg repro bracket, spacer, bolt right now.


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## Lemansbythelake (Jun 4, 2017)

What you want for them and the bracket if you find it


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