# What to offer on a 1968 GTO



## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

So one of my neighbors has a 1968 Pontiac gto that I am wanting to buy. I can tell that it has rust on the quarter panels, maybe a few dents, and a rusted roof. It is also probably rusted on the floor pans, and may need a new interior. No clue what engine, But I know it runs. Any idea on what to offer? Thanks!


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## Josh.AZ.GTO (Jul 11, 2009)

Depending on what you want to do with the car I would price out the things you know you would want to fix. Calculate that into the overall cost of the car. I'd look online and see what you can get for a completed car with decent interior and work backwards deducting the items you would spend on this 68. Just remember there is always more rust than you can see.


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

To be honest, This would be my first car . Yeah, yeah, I haven't Fixed up a car before, but I come from a engineering family, so gotta continue the tradition. I am WANTING to try and just do everything on my own, no sending it to a shop or restoration. Gonna take a few years, but it will be worth it! I Gotta start somewhere!


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

post some pics


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

is it a running car or sitting in some back yard in a heap? big diff.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

hackrtanman said:


> To be honest, This would be my first car . Yeah, yeah, I haven't Fixed up a car before, but I come from a engineering family, so gotta continue the tradition. I am WANTING to try and just do everything on my own, no sending it to a shop or restoration. Gonna take a few years, but it will be worth it! I Gotta start somewhere!


"Gonna take a few years", he said... :rofl:

Just be aware of what you're getting into. In about 1985, I decided to do a frame off restoration on my 69 GTO. Now mind you, this car was running just fine and up until then had been my daily driver. It had some rust on one quarter panel, both front fenders down low behind the wheels, and at the base of the windshield. It had been a Texas car all it's life and was even built in the Arlington TX GM plant, so the rust really wasn't very bad. Like you, I wanted to do everything myself and completely rebuild the car from the ground up. I'd worked on cars "all my life" at the time, had rebuilt engines, and was pretty confident that I was going to get the job done. Like I said, I started on it in 1985. With a lot of luck, _*I'll finish it by the end of the year.*_ By the time it's finished, I probably will have spent more than twice as much money on it as it will ever be worth, and no telling how many _thousands_ of hours.

I'm not sorry, I'm pretty excited that after all these years it's finally looking like I'm going to get it done, and I'm more than a little proud to be able to say that I've done 100% of the work, every bolt, every weld, every square inch of body and paint work - myself.

Like I said, just be aware of what you're getting into  There are thousands of cars out there that have died the horrible death of becoming "disassembled projects" that never got completed. It'd be a real shame if that were to happen to yet another classic GTO.

Bear


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Yep, my brother was going to do a frame off on a '50 Chev pickup 20 years ago. He sold it in pieces.....


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

once people figure out that you can go down to the dealer and buy a brand new performance car with warranty, ac and with all the safety built into cars today that will be faster than that restored gto they begin to question if its worth all the time and expense. this is coming from someone who has done 2 gto restorations in 2 years. i dont think i will ever do another one unless i run across an ultra rare car cheap.
unless its something special in todays market in most cases if you pay to have it done you can get the car for free and still lose money on restorations.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Not sure I agree on the "faster" part, not with the motor I built ...  But I definitely agree on the cost. I've got no delusions that this car will ever be worth what I've spent on it, even if you count all my time as free and just add up parts, supplies, and machining. However cost vs. resale value was never a consideration: it's not for sale and isn't going to be. I'm building it for me to enjoy, and perhaps for my son(s) after me.

Folks who are into these cars as investments very rarely build them or have them built because that's usually not the way to make money on them. 

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> "Gonna take a few years", he said... :rofl:
> 
> Just be aware of what you're getting into. In about 1985, I decided to do a frame off restoration on my 69 GTO. Now mind you, this car was running just fine and up until then had been my daily driver. It had some rust on one quarter panel, both front fenders down low behind the wheels, and at the base of the windshield. It had been a Texas car all it's life and was even built in the Arlington TX GM plant, so the rust really wasn't very bad. Like you, I wanted to do everything myself and completely rebuild the car from the ground up. I'd worked on cars "all my life" at the time, had rebuilt engines, and was pretty confident that I was going to get the job done. Like I said, I started on it in 1985. With a lot of luck, _*I'll finish it by the end of the year.*_ By the time it's finished, I probably will have spent more than twice as much money on it as it will ever be worth, and no telling how many _thousands_ of hours.
> 
> ...


Like Bear says1000's of hours, my car was all original only needing smoothing out of the original body panels (200 hrs minimum sanding before i would even consider spraying 1200 dollars worth of paint on it) Me and Bears builds have paralleled each others and he has been a great help motivating and tutoring me on the finer points. Like him i took on all the work myself and sometimes i walk in the shop and cannot even believe i did it all. I received the car on Sept 10th last year and took it to it's first show this weekend, so it can be done "in a few years"with perseverance and commitment (and a ton of money). Heres a before and after, if i had needed patch panels and such it would have been another year to complete. Get some pics of the bad spots and we can give you an idea of what to offer him.



















and a direct link to 650 photos of the whole build

1966 Tempest pictures by instg8ter - Photobucket

Brian


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

BearGFR said:


> Just be aware of what you're getting into. In about 1985, I decided to do a frame off restoration on my 69 GTO. Now mind you, this car was running just fine and up until then had been my daily driver. It had some rust on one quarter panel, both front fenders down low behind the wheels, and at the base of the windshield. It had been a Texas car all it's life and was even built in the Arlington TX GM plant, so the rust really wasn't very bad. Like you, I wanted to do everything myself and completely rebuild the car from the ground up. I'd worked on cars "all my life" at the time, had rebuilt engines, and was pretty confident that I was going to get the job done. Like I said, I started on it in 1985. With a lot of luck, _*I'll finish it by the end of the year.*_ By the time it's finished, I probably will have spent more than twice as much money on it as it will ever be worth, and no telling how many _thousands_ of hours.
> 
> I'm not sorry, I'm pretty excited that after all these years it's finally looking like I'm going to get it done, and I'm more than a little proud to be able to say that I've done 100% of the work, every bolt, every weld, every square inch of body and paint work - myself.
> 
> ...


So? I'm a kid who doesn't have a job, has about 5 months of a year free to do anything, and WONT give up in the middle of it. Would you rather have me sit at home playing mindless video games, or doing drugs?


Ill try to get pics, its hidden by bushes right now, and it DOES run, I saw the guy start it up and move it to a corner of his yard. He has about 6 cars and 3 boats, all unrestored.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

hackrtanman said:


> So? I'm a kid who doesn't have a job, has about 5 months of a year free to do anything, and WONT give up in the middle of it. Would you rather have me sit at home playing mindless video games, or doing drugs?
> 
> 
> Ill try to get pics, its hidden by bushes right now, and it DOES run, I saw the guy start it up and move it to a corner of his yard. He has about 6 cars and 3 boats, all unrestored.


so how does a kid with no job propose to pay for all this? restoring cars is an expensive hobby. 
from the info you have provided so far i would guess you are looking at a 5k range car.


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## dr68 (Jul 26, 2011)

*offer what you feel it is worth to you.*

I think for the average gear head it is about what you want and how to finish it. I think the that the market for muscle cars is in the hands of investors not for the guy that has thought they were cool when younger or for someone that likes to mess around with a car that you can work at home. I have just picked up a 68 GTO like the one I had in the late 80's that I sold for 2500.00,with todays prices you know were I am kicking myself. I would say to by a driver that you can enjoy as you are working on and than it is not like a job and everything you do makes it worth a little more, unless it is ultra rare than you might think it is worth the money to restore. It is cool to just drive a Goat no matter the condition.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I've come to the realization recently that even if a certain car were given to me free of charge, it would still be more expensive in the long run than a completed car would be initially. I've been looking at 2+2's and early Gran Prix's, and some of these cars are cheap, but still "not worth it" as they would cost 60k to bring back. Better to spend 30k on a car that is done or has never been run into the ground in the first place. That said, if you're a young kid and have a bunch of time but little money, here's what you do: You buy the '68 for a reasonable price....if it needs floors/panels, it has to be less than 5k for sure. You then get the mechanicals up to par without tearing the car all apart....the idea is to drive it while you fix up one thing at a time. I got both the GTO's I have now when I was a kid of 21....and I'm 50 now. I enjoy them more now than I did then,,,and they've never been torn apart or off the road...just repaired as needed. 30 years of continual GTO enjoyment! I recently helped a friend finish a frame off on his '67 GTO that was his first car (he bought it in 1977) and there was nothing really wrong with it in the first place: he just parked it outside in 1991 with the intent of a "fresh paint job" and let nature do its thing...for 20 years. 20 years of having a 1967 GTO and NOT driving it. I can't imagine! It took all of 2 years after he actually started working on it to bring it back to near mint condition. His now college-age son has ridden in it for the first time and has learned to "drive stick" on it (It was parked before the son was BORN) What we're all trying to say is, have fun, go slow, and give it a shot. This IS an expensive hobby at times. It IS very rewarding. You WILL have a lot of frustrations but even more rewards. There is nothing as _cool_ as driving down the road in a classic musclecar that you yourself have repaired/restored/saved/kept running. There is nothing as _sad_ as a once-running musclecar disassembled with good intentions and then sold off as scrap and parts. Good luck.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Can you get a job at a local body shop? learn the skills while fixing the car up? body work is usually the most expensive, SLOWEST part of a restoration. If you could find a car that had a good body, but needed mechanical work, you would probably do better....Also, don't sit around and play video games, and/or do drugs.....there will be plenty of time for that when you are old and sickly...do the real things now!!!! Eric


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> I've come to the realization recently that even if a certain car were given to me free of charge, it would still be more expensive in the long run than a completed car would be initially. I've been looking at 2+2's and early Gran Prix's, and some of these cars are cheap, but still "not worth it" as they would cost 60k to bring back. Better to spend 30k on a car that is done or has never been run into the ground in the first place. That said, if you're a young kid and have a bunch of time but little money, here's what you do: You buy the '68 for a reasonable price....if it needs floors/panels, it has to be less than 5k for sure. You then get the mechanicals up to par without tearing the car all apart....the idea is to drive it while you fix up one thing at a time. I got both the GTO's I have now when I was a kid of 21....and I'm 50 now. I enjoy them more now than I did then,,,and they've never been torn apart or off the road...just repaired as needed. 30 years of continual GTO enjoyment! I recently helped a friend finish a frame off on his '67 GTO that was his first car (he bought it in 1977) and there was nothing really wrong with it in the first place: he just parked it outside in 1991 with the intent of a "fresh paint job" and let nature do its thing...for 20 years. 20 years of having a 1967 GTO and NOT driving it. I can't imagine! It took all of 2 years after he actually started working on it to bring it back to near mint condition. His now college-age son has ridden in it for the first time and has learned to "drive stick" on it (It was parked before the son was BORN) What we're all trying to say is, have fun, go slow, and give it a shot. This IS an expensive hobby at times. It IS very rewarding. You WILL have a lot of frustrations but even more rewards. There is nothing as _cool_ as driving down the road in a classic musclecar that you yourself have repaired/restored/saved/kept running. There is nothing as _sad_ as a once-running musclecar disassembled with good intentions and then sold off as scrap and parts. Good luck.


Finally, someone who understands my intentions. I don't PLAN to have it be a complete restore, or be some fancy show car. I don't PLAN to have it even be a powerful car to impress people. I just want a semi-nice looking classic muscle car, because honestly, I like muscle cars more than any other car on the road. Just because I am 15 doesn't mean I cant fix up a car? Bull****, If I made an arc stick welding torch from two microwaves, I think I may have a chance at "fixing" up an old car. Anyways, pictures of the front soon, I cant quite get into his yard.


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Eric Animal said:


> Can you get a job at a local body shop? learn the skills while fixing the car up? body work is usually the most expensive, SLOWEST part of a restoration. If you could find a car that had a good body, but needed mechanical work, you would probably do better....Also, don't sit around and play video games, and/or do drugs.....there will be plenty of time for that when you are old and sickly...do the real things now!!!! Eric


Yeah, I live pretty close to an old gas station/shop so I'm thinking of applying for a job there.

EDIT: Pictures! Well, not my pictures, sadly. I could not end up getting a picture without going into loral or going on there lawn, which they were on. Here is a picture that looks the closest to what shape it is in:










Has an endura delete front bumper, still has the badges, nameplates. Not as rusted at wheel wells and on hood. still has original hubcaps. Headlights are stuck, vacuum maybe busted. Interior is also torn, and has the old leather/vinyl look. No moss yet though!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

hackrtanman, my first car was a beat up, worn out, faded-paint and gray primer '66 GTO with a 4 speed, slot mags, and an attitude. As a teenager, the few and far between owners of "nice" musclecars snickered at my youth and inexperience. I didn't care. I loved musclecars. I went from working at the auto parts store to working as an apprentice auto tech to a journeyman auto tech and then into auto-related work for the gov't. I learned to wrench, to do body work, and to half-way paint. (still need to work on that!). The thing is, these cars do not have to be "a build" or a "frame off", as you stated. They can simply be old, neglected cars that can be fixed up and enjoyed as is, with upgrades along the way the whole time. I'm glad you are looking at a fix-up-and -drive scenario: it's cheaper, waaay more do-able, and much more fun much sooner. Do the frame off redtoration when you're an old guy like us!!!!


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

I mainly want a project to work on, because that's me. I cant LIVE without at least one project going, and Ive been craving a large project for a long time. To me, this seems prefect, to just keep working at a car as i get older. Plus, its either this or a 1966 Impala, and I'd rather have this.


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Well, after a quick further inspection, I found out that it is NOT a GTO, but instead, It is a Custom S. Still same condition, but THIS seems to be more like it. 

EDIT:
I may be able to get pictures tomorrow if they're at work.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Hackr, no one is doubting your skills or abilities only giving you the scenarios. As you have heard must of us love these cars because of our youth, and only want nothing more than to see the Pontiac nameplate carry on...until i got the Tempest i had not wrenched on my own cars for 25 years. I owned firebirds all through my youth but the one i missed out on (sold two days before i went over with cash in hand after scraping and scrounging at 15 years old to get the 2000.00) for my first car was a 66' GTO and i always said i would own one and restore it. well the Tempest came along out of thin air on a random craigslist search and was priced right so the journey began on my GTO Clone. When i realized how intact and clean this barn find was i decided to keep it a Tempest. If you can afford and get it for under 5K and it runs it sound like you have the wherewithal and attitude to make it roadworthy and after that you can pick away at it's flaws. I will say this being a parent, unless yours are very understanding and have the vision that you do they will probably flip out at you paying that kind of money for a car that barely runs and gets 10 miles to the gallon when it does....not a shot just a perception. if you really want it stick to your guns, maybe you can work a deal with the neighbor to pay on time or work some of the cost off as it sounds like you are very handy and not afraid of a hard days work which is good because you will have a lot of them in front of you.......and by the way welcome to the Herd any pontiac lover car or not is welcome here in my book......:cheers (with a soda)

PS: we have many members in your age group driving theses classics as DD's and many that are doing resto's with their fathers and grandfathers and you guys are the future Pontiac enthusiasts.


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

And my parents are very understanding on this. In fact, they are the ones that brought it up, because I like projects so much. I was also thinking about working to lower the cost, because he is trimming a bunch of his loral bush, and the have to work so that may help me


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

hackrtanman said:


> So? I'm a kid who doesn't have a job, has about 5 months of a year free to do anything, and WONT give up in the middle of it. Would you rather have me sit at home playing mindless video games, or doing drugs?


No sir, absolutely not --- and if you'll look again you'll see I never said anything like that. Just make sure you go into it with your eyes open and with a complete understanding of what you're letting yourself in for. 

I'm not sayiing you "can't" or that you "shouldn't try" - just know it ain't gonna be easy and it ain't gonna be cheap and it ain't gonna be quick.

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

the custom S works out well for you, the price just came down into your ballpark the 242 (GTO first three VIN #'s) cars in similar condition will command more than a Lemans/Tempest (double or triple), but when done your car will be basically a Goat in sheeps clothing (like mine) as the parts you will be rebuilding it with will be GTO parts. The custom -S is a somewhat rare car just because there were not a lot made and sold and is a great starter car and it gives you some license to customize it as you see fit or go back to original as it will not effect the value either way as it would with a true GTO. custom-S in that kinda shape if it runs i would say a few grand, not running it's parts car prices.


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Yeah I'm pretty sure it runs, as I thought I heard it and it was moved from one place to another. I also don't have to mess with vacuum pipes, as I have heard that they are a PAIN! I have a few ideas for customizing, one involving a fighter jet joystick, some side vents, and a louver like the mach 1 Mustangs. But, until I have the car for sure, I will put that aside.

And Bear:
I didn't mean it in that way, I was trying to say that I DO have a lot of time, mainly because I'm still in high school


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

we were all in HS once....and we all wanted or had a cool car mine was a 69' Firebird, gold with black vinyl top, 89,000 original miles from original owner who had EVERY and i do mean every including oil changes dealer serviced reciept, mint interior, 350 4bbl. ohhh to know then what i know now!, ended up white Imron with rear flares deep dish centerlines with 50's and air shocks, smalls on the front....it was the early 80's after all.... ohhh and it cost 2000.00 in 81'


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I got my 71 Lemans Sport in 82 for $150, beat, but running good. Put a 3.55 posi in it, GTO front clip on it, then wrecked it, not totalled, but was then. Got $600 from insurance, not my fault, got a 66 Tempest 455 2 barrel, new paint and no interior for $400! Put the 3.55 rear from the other car, and I was fastest "normal" car in the school.. Now, 30 years later, got a 70 and 66. Now, junkers are thousands, mine weren't special cars back then, just stuff I could afford. But wanted them again, because they were fun rides, and lost my license in the 66..:cheers


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Yeah, I'm thinking about goin' over there sometime and lowballin' him for it and offer 500 hundred, see what happens from there. I'm gonna TRY not to go over 3 grand.

The place where I live is pretty much junker hell. Once a car is toast, it sits and rots for another 50. I can name quite a few off the bat. A 302 mustang boss, the custom 3, somewhere around 10 442's, and just muscle cars in general! On the contrary, we have 2 huge car shows, one of which is coming up, and the Seattle corvette and T bird clubs are coming over. The North West is a pretty interesting place.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

A guy from Seattle was selling a 66 Lemans here with a SBC in it, no interior, but a solid body and wanted $6K for it. I found my 66 for a little more complete, but rust. Anyway, the cars from there look really solid compared to alot of the country. Not knocking the Pontiac, but you need to get one of the 10 455 442s, they are torque monsters. Get the best car you can for your budget, regardless of make, that's what I do in real life. I buy and sell, so have had a bunch of cars. Bang for the buck and profit margin is #1..


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

PICTURES!! FINALLY!!
So FINALLY here are some pictures, only one i could get, and there not the best, but there may be more:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6026811720/in/photostream

More Photos on my stream

Any ideas?


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## Utah Man (Aug 9, 2011)

The body doesn't look too bad. Check out the frame rails, make sure it runs, see if it is a 6-cylinder or an 8. Don't low ball the guy, ask him what he would sell it for, schmooze him for a good hour, talking about cars and the good old days, then ask him for his best price. At this point you go over the flaws of the car, the ripped interior, rusted fenders etc. and offer what you want to pay (I wouldn't go over 2 thousand on this car, considering the time and money needed to perfectly restore it and its relatively low value once all of that is done).


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

*1969 Custom-S*

Well howdy. Yea I know a little about the Custom-S cars, just bought one myself. You can get a good look at her here: http://www.gtoforum.com/f83/marilyn-restoration-thread-33562/

That said I did NOT spend much on my car ... it came with a 1964 389 in it and an automatic BUT the body is in FAN-FRICKING-TASTIC shape as was the floor pans and trunk. I am not saying this sort of thing happens everyday. BUT a Custom-S (or Tempest or LeMans or T-37 or GT-37) can be had for a good price in great shape. 

MAKE SURE you want THIS CAR before you pay more than say 2000-2500 for it. If it has a built 400 in it maybe more, if it's a 4-speed maybe more but not much. There are a lot of NON 68-72 GTO's out there and if you are going to go the route of the NON GTO do not get run for a lot of money. 

Just my 2 cents. 

But either way, dude you will LOVE owning a Pontiac. Nothing like it.
Good luck
:cheers
BTW..if you do buy THIS car, you wanna sell that steering wheel? :lol:
No seriously I will buy it today. :cool


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Yeah, I just learned that someone offered him somewhere around 3 grand and he wouldn't sell it . Oh well, plan B! A completely original '62 Chevy Impala that my cousin has that's been sitting in a barn/shed for about 25 years according to my dad! I may fix it up a bit, sell it for a pretty penny, and try and buy the Custom S.

By the way, what steering wheel was that? I was trying to figure it out!


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Turned down 3k, he is married to it. I got both of my GTO's for just over 3K. Divorce sales can be brutal.


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, but like I said, I have a cousin who never uses a 1962 Impala that i could probably get for maybe 1000.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

nice, four speed car and someone put a tach in it. looks like it would make a good project, seems to be all there. i love the chrome bumpers on the 68-69'


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## hackrtanman (Aug 8, 2011)

Someday It will be mine. I may still go over and ask though


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