# Headers or Not



## 66 Tiger (Nov 18, 2009)

Hey,

I am a newbie to this forum so take it easy on me. 
I just picked up a 66 Lemans that has a 455 in it. With the car I got a Edelbrock Performer high rise intake which I intend to put on the car once the snow flies. Is it worth it to put on headers or not? It sounds like a lttle bit of work however is there enough horsepower gain to make it worth it? 
The motor is out of a 73 Grand Safari wagon and was rebuilt with a mild cam in it. The exhaust manifolds are stock 66 Lemans. 
I am looking at a set of hooker headers.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## raspantienator (Nov 20, 2007)

Welcome.

I put headers on my 455 TA and the sound was louder and more aggressive. Did not notice the increase in HP because 455's are torque masters to begin with. 

There were times I considered putting the original exhaust manifold back though only because there were times I did not want to sound like I was at a drag strip. 
Overall I was happy I did it.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

66 Tiger said:


> Hey,
> 
> I am a newbie to this forum so take it easy on me.
> I just picked up a 66 Lemans that has a 455 in it. With the car I got a Edelbrock Performer high rise intake which I intend to put on the car once the snow flies. Is it worth it to put on headers or not? It sounds like a lttle bit of work however is there enough horsepower gain to make it worth it?
> ...


unless you are going to race it is not worth the hassle and expense.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Everything that I've read suggests to stay away from the headers and go with ram air manifolds. They'll flow better than the stock ones, which should give you a few extra horses, but wont constantly leak like headers. I have a 455 too. That's the route I'm going to go someday....


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## assasn2k (Feb 10, 2009)

hey welcome to the forum, headers are a good way to go if you have the performance mods to go with it, and need the bit of extra exhaust flow. i installed mine this summer and they still aren't leaking. MAJOR PITA is getting them up there, you have to remove the motor mount bolts and raise the block about 4-5 inches, remove the starter and oil filter housing. at that point it's pretty simple to get them up there just make sure you have the car on some ramps and caulked, so it doesn't roll off on you. the sound is incredible, and it's nice to have a bit of easier access to the exhaust components. just make sure you don't skimp on the headers or gasket, and make sure to use thread locker.


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## 646904GTO (Feb 10, 2008)

Ram Air manifolds are the best bang for the buck. Never leak, never hit the ground. Has starter clearance. Cost and PITA ratio the RA's are best. JMHO


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Go with the cast ram air HO manifolds like everybody says. If you DO decide on tubing headers, Hookers are one of the best. You need to jack the car waaay up in order to slip them in, pull the motor out of the mounts, and get out your 4 pound ball pein hammer to modify the tubes on the drivers side. You also will need to weld and grind on your clutch linkage. Go with the HO manifolds like everybody says. Yes, Ihave tubing headers on my '65. Yes, they provide good power. Yes, they leak. (30 year old headers!) Have fun.


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## 66 Tiger (Nov 18, 2009)

I would really like to go for them. I had them on a 78 Z and had no problems.

I have two questions regarding the installation. I noticed the stock exhaust manifolds only have 4 bolts holding them in place. Will the heads have holes already drilled in them where there are no bolts? Did you have any problems with breaking manifold bolts?

Your thoughts?


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## chainboy1 (Oct 16, 2008)

I have a se of Dougs Headers for my 400. Hopefully once I am ready to get the motor back in, they will work out alright.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

USE the RAM AIR MANIFOLDS!!!!!! They: fit better, look great, keep the engine bay cooler than headers, won't leak, are easier to install, quieter, last longer,easier to change the oil, won't cook your starter........And you don't really need them on a basically stock engine. Eric $.02:cheers


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

66: only the HO manifolds run 4 bolts on an early car like yours. They get away with it because the manifolds are like bricks and do not budge. The stock manifolds use 6 bolts to hold them in place. In the '70's, Pontiac made a bunch of lo-po heads with no bolt holes drilled on the outer flanges, and sometimes, no outer port flange in the casting!! There are photos of this on another thread. Good luck with your exhaust therapy. I've done it several times, and each time, I aged about ten years.


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

66 Tiger said:


> I noticed the stock exhaust manifolds only have 4 bolts holding them in place. Will the heads have holes already drilled in them where there are no bolts?


 Possibly NOT. Another member just went thru this with newer heads and his weren't drilled or even CAST to be drilled for the 2 outside/end bolts. If your head looks like this, headers won't work.


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## Jstreet (Mar 9, 2009)

I have Hookers on my car and I'd rather have the Ram Air Manifolds. Mine were on my car when I got it and still look good. (You can't stop them from rusting) I think they are just too loud and I've had to replace a gasket 1x already. Jacking and working with the blasted thing back in while trying not to scratch anything up is a pain in the azz. Not to mention the heat. Mine aren't wrapped. I'd definitely wrap them if you intend to go that route. However, that may not be possible with a 4-speed. The tolerances are too tight with the hooker competitions.


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## jpdog357 (Feb 27, 2006)

Where can you buy Ram Air or HO exhaust manifolds?

Jason


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Ames has them; these are NOT the same as original. These are cast for 2.5" exhaust...



Ram Air Exhaust Manifolds
Part #

Description

Price
RAR-RM-1-OS

Ram Air D-Port Exhaust Manifold for 64-67 GTO With Oversized 2.5" Outlet (A-Body)

$429.95
RAR-RM-2-0S

Ram Air D-Port Exhaust Manifolds With Oversized 2.5" Outlet for 1968-1972 GTO

$429.95
RAR-RM-4-0S

Round Port Ram Air Manifolds With Oversized 2.5" Outlet-64-79 GM A-Body, 70-81 Firebird, 69-81 Grand Prix.

$449.95
RAR-LB-1

D-Port Long Branch Factory Headers, 67-69 Firebird, 73-77 Ventura, 60-70 Catalina & Bonneville, 69-72 Gran Prix

$449.00


Copyright © Butler Performance

I can't find the other source I used to have for them. I'll keep looking but the price was about the same.


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## 66GTO7.5L (Jan 8, 2009)

I have Hedman on my 455 block. They were on the car when I got it. I replaced the gaskets last week due to leaks. Yes, they are too close to the stock starter but it only creates a problem when it is 90 degrees outside...any cooler and no problem. If you get the headers, then also get a smaller torque style starter for clearance. I like that I have headers, but wouldn't have put them on if they weren't already there due to expense...both fiscal and physical. Ah, and they will rust. Depending on humidity levels, etc., where you live, wrapping them has a chance of speeding up the rusting issue. But hey, they do sound good!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I have Hedman's on my '65, and they've been on the car since the '70's. Back then, that's what you did: you put headers on it! Never mind the rust, the leaks, the inconvenience, etc. If you were cool, you ran headers. Period. Now, 30 plus years later, I don't know how "cool" I am, but I do know that Hedmans will stay on that danged '65. Just because!


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## Bobbyg (Jul 22, 2009)

geeteeohguy said:


> Back then, that's what you did: you put headers on it! Never mind the rust, the leaks, the inconvenience, etc. If you were cool, you ran headers. Period. Just because!


Grew up with Hedmans
coolcool:cool


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Ram Air restorations sells them www.ramairrestoration.com


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## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Eric Animal said:


> Ram Air restorations sells them www.ramairrestoration.com


I was trying to find that place yesterday but it didn't come up in my search.....:willy: I was on their site last spring and didn't bookmark it because I figured I would remember where I found it. Well, I'm over 55, so you know about the memory part.... Thanks for the link. They have some neat chit there. I have it saved now...:seeya


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## dirks67goat (Jan 15, 2010)

i have a 67 GTO that has PS PB and a/c all factory. Did a complete rebuild on the motor and trans and had alot of clearence issues with a set of hooker headers i had purchased. cant remember what they hit on the passanger side, but i believe on the driverside the headers touched the brake proportioning valve on the inside of the frame. Did not feel like reloacating the lines and valve, so i went back with ram air manifolds. I did some rearch that Dougs headers are very aware of the fit problem and guarantee they will. this experience was over 5 yrs ago though. Best of luck


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Go with the cast ram air manifolds!!!!!!!!!!! you'll be glad you did. Unless you have a ton 450+ HP you wont really tell the difference.


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## gtomuscle (Dec 11, 2009)

If you really want headers go with Doug headers they fit the best, they have a nice thick flange that helps with leaks. I have a set of Dougs on my 67 street car and double gaskets and work really well, ps Hooker headers are junk had a ste of super comps on that 67 and the Doug headers fit 10000000000 times better.


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## fheckro (Nov 19, 2009)

I have two Pontiac motors and both have headers. Neither one leaks!... but there's a secret. before I send them out to be jet hot coated I modify the flange on the collector. I cut one from a piece of 3/8 steel the exact same shape as the little twinky one that comes on the headers, then weld it directly to the collector(after removing the usless ones supplied by the manufacturer). I'v been doing this to headers for a long time and have never had one leak. 

If you are unable to make this mod then you will have leaky headers and if this is unacceptable then manifolds would be a better choice.

Follow assasn2k's advice 
Also... I have found that having the rear wheels up higher then the front helps immensely!(but the front at least at ramp height) I have never used thread locker but i do re torque the bolts once after they get good and hot.

I have never (well almost never) taken a hammer to the tubes, I just don't like doing that. I think you will find that the Hooker and other quality headers fit without needing this. You shouldn't need to do any modifications to your clutch linkage, if you do then something is wrong; back up and regroup. 

hope your project goes well!

cheers


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## heyman (Jan 15, 2010)

Ram airs are your best bet, not a very great gain with headers on that motor


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## 67lemans (Oct 30, 2009)

I just did a header destall / restall on my 67 recently aquired lemans. Someone had already put headers on it and they leaked massively. I pulled them off and found only 1 bolt hole on front and back port (as previously mentioned can be the case). So I pulled the heads and drilled them (no problem, didn't hit water). Had to take oil filter bracket off but not starter. I had to relocated the brake proportioner to really be satisfied with the fit. It looked like they had been, shall we say "modified", to clear the steering knuckle by the PS unit. Of course all this cost a lot of $$ and took a lot of skin just to fix a leak. If I were starting from scratch I'd either be happy with the factory manifolds or go ram air.


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## VettenGoat (Jun 19, 2007)

If you want to cheaply experiment without laying out $200 + dollars, I have a set of headers I took off the 65 that will fit your body style. $35 and shipping.
Think I probably have a set of new gaskets for them also you can have. Send me a PM if interested.

Mike

[email protected]


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