# My 66 GTO arrived today



## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi all, I've always like the 65-67 GTO so I finally bought one. Here is a little write up of the first few hours with it. I knew I wanted a little more than a stock motor so I looked for one that had a bigger motor. So the one I found has a 455 in it with some performance cam that adds about 100 HP. Pics looked good and even seen some video, but the finish is allot rougher than I was expecting. Well long story short I got myself a 20 footer So I got some work to do

It is a California car, and lived in Cali and Texas its whole life.

Before you look at the pics I will say in the pics even from me the paint looks much better than in person, very hard for the camera to pic it up. I posted some video that hopefully shows it at the end.

First, here is a pic of how it looked as it showed up:









Under the hood:









I sprayed the dust off:









Soap:









Hood dried off:









Swirl city:









A big scratch, I think I can work it out though:









Some more scuffs in the paint:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Allot of crap on the trunk, looks like someone got crazy with a rotary:









Bumpers and trim got some crap all over it, no idea what it is and how to approach it yet:









miss match paint:









Cracked paint or bondo:









More pics of crap on bumper:









If you look close you see some paint drip and a chip and crappy trim:









Nasty dent  Can this be fixed?









Started to clay the hood:









Swirls on hood:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

More swirls:










You can see some of the old buff marks here:









Here is my test spot on the hood, about as good as this paint can look:









Half the hood done:









Hood done:









Hood again:









Using flash...still could work it some more but paint is so crappy I don't see the point:









Another shot of the hood:









This video was taken before I hit it with the PC but you can see some of the bubbles and pits. This is the only place you can kinda see the pits\bubble that are all over this poor thing. Right in the first 1-4 seconds you barely see some.





This video just shows the swirl city.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Most anything can be fixed...... You state you are bummed at the price but don't mention what you paid for it. What does the underside look like? Chassis etc? For many what you are showing is easy stuff to fix. It's the stuff you didn't see or cannot see that will bite you in the a$$.

I suppose I could mention... never buy a car sight unseen. IF necessary have someone who fully knows the car and what to look for and can haggle you a good price on it speak for you if you cannot be there, but to let a sister do this and rely on a few pictures then find out its not what those little pictures indicated on a phone...... well I won't bring it up. 

Whatever you had budgeted to invest in this car figure on adding a bunch more.... Even on expected surprises those totals rise, let alone unexpected surprises that will certainly cost your more than you thought. One step at a time.... whats more important right now, appearance or getting the real important things done that you may not have known about.

IMO if it were me, I'd make sure the car is mechanically sound to run right now.. shine her up and drive her.. prioritize what you want to do and go one step at a time. It is what it is so go forward with it and don't dwell on I shoulda woulda.... your biggest issue will be $$$. Come up with a plan and go one step at a time.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

:agree

From your pics and descriptions,photo's, it looks like you got yourself a nice 5-10 footer. Now go out and drive it and fall in love with it because it's a GTO! Fix those little items you can but I would'nt neccasarily tear it all down right away to do a frame off. Enjoy the car, accumulate parts for a restoration and when your ready you'll know the car much better. :cheers

Post car? Whats the interior like?


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

That is pitting on the trim and bumpers, it happens to all of them. You can get them rechromed or get new stuff, no buffing or polishing is going to fix it. I havent seen 40+ year old trim not pitted yet. Dont worry about it, like the guys said its easy stuff. If its been in California and Texas all its life, then chances are you wont have huge rust issues.

The cracked spot on the quarter is probably a dent filled with bondo. I have two california cars and both of them had crappy repairs like that to dents. For now dont worry about it if you want a driver. If you want a show car that is a good place to start, and the money is well spent.

I would start driving it too, find out what else it needs and start working on it so you can enjoy it. Dont freak about little things wrong with it, if you want a perfect paint job you are going to be spending $20k at least. Anything less than that will still have flaws in it, you just dont want obvious ones when you get it redone, like runs and fish eyes. 

Just get it out and enjoy it, there is nothing like cruising around in one of these cars even with the flaws. Hell, people used to pull up next to me at stoplights and start a conversation about my 70, tell me it was a beautiful car, and even had people hanging out windows on the street yelling how much they love it. It was painted with rattle cans at that time. I am just as picky as you are, probably more picky than you when it comes to my work, but most people just see a cool old GTO, and they dont see those everywhere. Make sure the brakes are good and it doesnt overheat, then go have people talk to you or yell about how much they like your car..


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Nobody can see a paint chip at 70 mph.


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

When you start cruzing around and you get a







wherever you go, you'll forget about the imperfections in a real hurry!


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Yeah, its a post car. The interior of the doors looks original, but the roof and floor look brand new.

The under side of the hood, especially above the battery has a good bit of rust, but the rest only has a few rust spots. It appears most the chips didn't make it to the metal as it still looks like primer\bondo.

I'm going to finish the rest the car before I take it for a real drive.

I'll get more pics up tonight.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

It is SOOO hot here and I have no shade or cool canopy. I'll wait a few hours to start work.

So I too some pics of the inside and underside (The first pic that is pink insulation and not rust you see). Looks pretty good here.

Do you guys see anything I should have looked at? Looks pretty good to me.

I have to wait until Monday to drive it, SOS was closed when it arrived and not open on the weekend But I did sit in the drive and listen to the engine:bow:

Pedals:









Visors, not sure what to think here, the visors look in person allot older than the rood lining. Maybe they replaced that but it matches perfect.









Back seats, they kept the speakers....still trying to get the 8-track to work









Inside of door, the glue is coming off the carpet:









Wheel and gauges, most of them work:









Now for underneath, best I can get without jacking it up. Note that is not oil dripping but appears it had that under spray done. Looks like the same stuff on my 2007:


















Here I think the gas tank might be leaking, I'll have it checked out next week:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)




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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I would look to see if you have a gas tank sending unit leak, looks wet on the tank. Also, rear end pinion seal leaking, looks like it's slinging oil. May just be some weird undercoating. Passenger side sway bar bushing on the frame looks like it may be time to change. 
Looks good, no rust, congrats. 
With a 4 speed 455, you need to drive the car! You will fall in love with the Torque. Be carefull with the brakes. 4 wheel non power drums do not stop like new cars.
Those are cool traction bars, and what are the tires, street ETs? It's set up to run, should be a fun smoke machine.


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## freethinker (Nov 14, 2009)

thats called education. it doesnt look all that bad for a car that old. the only question is price.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

freethinker said:


> the only question is price.


Too much, and a sore subject better left alone. It is a nice car, just not as nice as what he paid for.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

It has Lakewood 20188 Traction Bars Coil Spring and Hoosier 275/60/15 D.O.T. Drag Radial tires. I also have the matching red lines that are in the front.

What pic are you looking at when you say it's flinging oil? The pic under the steering wheel that is that tar stuff, I had to feel it to be sure, buts its the tar undercoating. Looks like they gave it a quick spray when putting in the exhaust.

I heard I can get a trim kit for this, anyone got a link to some good kits? I seen a few that people complained about the alignment.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Can I run "today's" pump gas without any type of additives? And Valvoline VR1 racing oil? Not looking at cost, wouldn't synthetic be better? Or the oldies really need that zinc?

Thanks!


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

You need to calm down Batman. Take one step at a time. Start with the gas tank leak. Then find out where your wiper switch went.....The under carriage looks good. The steering column cover is cosmetic. It sounds like you don't like the car?! There is an answer for every problem Bro....:cheers Eric


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Lol, no, I like the car allot.

I knew about the wiper switch when I bought it. He said it needed one. Looking at the paperwork it looks like he had it in the shop twice to have the thing fixed. So not sure the problem yet.

I didn't even notice the column cover. I'd have to look at other pics to compare.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

The leak marks near the rear end/gas tank COULD be caused by one and the same leaks.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

I see there is an electric fuel pump...that is OK, but not stock, check it for leaks.....E


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Yeah, its an electric


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

if you have electric pump it is probably wired to the Accesories and will come on when in the left position.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Yep, don't know if you can wire the pump elsewhere, but you want it to run prior to cranking.
Eric, don't think there is much stock on that car. Looks like an old drag/street car by the mods. Probably a gear in the rear also. 10 bolt rear is good, but may already have been abused by those slicks. I also see a quick fuel Holley with anodized metering blocks, MSD 6A, coated headers, electric pump, and the SLICKS. Somebody thought this thing was fast, and probably is. I don't know why he shipped it on Slicks, and didn't put the stock tires back on to down play it some.
If they are leaks, they are seperate. Pinion seal may be undercoating, but is at the pinion. Gas tank may be discolored, you'll know soon enough, either when you fill it up and leave it in the garage over night and smell the fumes in the morning.
Oh well, it's just work and when you are done it will be yours. That is why I like to buy Grandma's grocery getter, or something like that priced accordingly.
That is a Pontiac, not a Chevy, you can tell by the valve covers and everything else. Find the engine code #s on the front passenger side of the block, post them up and someone will tell you. I don't know about your year motor, but under the distributor the engine size is embossed in big raised letters for quicky reference..
Welcome to the herd! We've all been there, experience cost sometimes, and we've all had our moments, lol..


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

GF just pointed out, may have been an older show car by the rally 1s and work done. Then someone else got the car and made it fast. That could explain alot. 
What is the Vin # of the car, is it 242 for the first numbers.:confused


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Why the frown face? Is the car ruined? Yeah, a 242 car. You know way more about this thing than I do, can ya tell me more? Now you got me scared I mean I knew it wasn't matching #s, but those comments make me think the value was really lost?  I have old paperwork and registration from the owner before the guy I got it from too, at least back that far the VIN is still the same. You don't think it's a 242?

I think he said it has a 3.73 posi in it.

The guy actually seemed like a good person, not trying to hide things. Obviously by letting my sister come over (not know if she was into cars) and check it out. Anyway he swears he never dragged it. And he was the one who bought the slicks, back in April 2010. I need to piece the dates together to get a timline when the stuff was bought, but I have paperwork for almost everything. I need to look up codes to see what all it is. When I spoke with him he seemed to get upset when I asked if it had been to the track, he was like its a GTO, I wouldn't want to tear it up. When the car was dropped off to my sister she said the guy was having a hard time parting with the car and was afraid I wanted to drag it. I only asked him because I seen the tires. The slicks still have the little nobbies on the sides of the tires, wouldn't a few burnouts make those come off? To my untrained eye I didn't notice any of that other stuff, I just wanted a GTO with not stock engine and loud exhaust. And its all that, and more.

I am going to buy one of those hula girls for the dash. I love how this car rocks when you rev it up. It will really make the hula girl dance 

Also maybe me turning the accessories on popped a seal or something in that pump. I tried it a few times before I thought oh crap that is probably the fuel pump.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

That's question, not a frown.. $350 for a pair of tires, then leave them on the car?? Those tires go bad quick and are too pricey to leave on the car. Most people have them in the trunk and just put them on for the strip. He bought/installed the tires for a reason. But they have way to much air in them, so may be for looks.
Go drive the thing in an open area and get on it, I bet your attitude will change! That car looks like too much fun! Be carefull, it will get away from you.. I like!:cheers


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

He said it has too much torque in 1st gear and was eating the red lines. So that is why he put those tires on it. Tires were new in April 2010, maybe they are already bad?

Honestly I don't want them, I really like ralley IIs and want to get a set ASAP. If I keep the bigger tires I want something with tread on it. I will never take this baby to the strip. I just like big and loud engines  Small engines with loud exhaust don't count...I wanted the real deal this time.

I'll ask around and see if anyone wants those tires or maybe trade me for some ralley IIs + I'd throw in some cash.

I have to wait until Monday to drive it I don't want to chance getting caught without it registered.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I'd like these rims, tires and my GTO to sit like the one in these pics. Do I have to modify the suspension to do it? If so, what do I need?

I don't really care for the redlines either, I want whats on the car in these pics, which I believe are rally IIs?


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Those are magnum 500's. Buick used them a lot. i have a set of 15" that the chrome is going bad on. I do like them. I had got a 66 skylark for free but could never get the title, it was just to much of a pain in the arse. So I sold it. I have a 66 GS hood also. I want another 66, convert tho. It sucks because the one I had was A/C and all.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

As for price if you payed less then $15g's you did alright. Not to say more was a bust.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

:agree buick rims but they do look nice on it and i love that color....Batman the rally two's have a more traditional 5 spoke look. that car looks lowered which would require drop springs and spindles up front and springs in back, my car is on new stock springs for comparison just remember though the lower you go the less tire will fit especially in the rear without rolling the inner lip. 










1966 Tempest pictures by instg8ter - Photobucket

Brian


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

When I was looking I knew I wanted a bigger motor, so I factored what it would cost to buy one and install it in my decision (and whatever other goodies needed to make conversion work). So a car that already had said motor justified the extra price. There were defiantly nicer rides for cheaper, but they had stock motors and not even matching #s. Had I purchased one of those and then got a 455 and dropped it in I think I would have paid more.

With that said, I think I got what I wanted. I didn't want a dragster, so I hope its not. I wanted a street-able monster that shakes the car and you can hear coming  The seller said it was very street-able and cruised at highway speeds real nice, which was my main concern. The only thing about the car I don't like is the finish. The rest the car looks pretty good.


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## scoob (Jul 18, 2011)

she looks nice one hell of a street pounder as stated before 455 with 4 speed should be one hell of a ride fix a little at a time and just enjoy bought mine at auction almost cried when i figured out what had to be done worked on her a year straight every weekend and after work most nights now end is in sight and can not be happier as for price who cares its only money


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I hope so scoob I gotta wait till Monday to register this bad boy. I just hope this thing is mechanically sound, the previous owner has allot of maintenance and repair receipts so I can only assume that it is. Looks like that fuel leak is my biggest problem at the moment.

Looking through the notes it says it has a 1974 455 with .30 Over, then about a year later the notes were updated to say .60 Over.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

those numbers refer to "overbore"....making the cylinders larger, thus requiring new, bigger pistons. This also adds cubic inches. E


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

.030 over, then .060 over means he had the engine rebuilt with bigger pistons, then blew it up and hurt the cylinder. Then he rebuilt it again with bigger pistons. It's a 469 or 470 now, .060 over 454 is 468..
Can't wait to hear about the test drive..:cheers


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agree....maybe he stroked it too!arty:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm not sure, but from receipts I know he out this cam in it:
51-246-4 - Magnum? Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts

And these rocker arms:
COMP Cams 1061-16 - COMP Cams Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

jetstang said:


> .030 over, then .060 over means he had the engine rebuilt with bigger pistons, then blew it up and hurt the cylinder. Then he rebuilt it again with bigger pistons. It's a 469 or 470 now, .060 over 454 is 468..
> Can't wait to hear about the test drive..:cheers



Be straight with me guys, not sure if there is sarcasm in that post. Am I looking at dropping a new engine in it now? Pretty sure he put them in for performance, not a blown engine.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree with the others. The "crap" on your chrome is slight pitting because it's 45 year old chrome. A Blue Charcoal '66 post coupe....what's not to like? Both of my GTO's are 10 footers (unrestored CA cars that have old re-paints and have never been off the road) and I love 'em. I've been driving them all over the place for 30 years. Some folks like sitting in a lawn chair in a parking lot with their hood up, myself, I like runnin' down the road!!! Welcome to GTO's.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Batman, get her on the road and bring it by and we can go over it, have had mine apart and back together three times during resto you need to get a game plan before you start throwing away good parts (money).:confused


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm new to all this guys, so I'm not sure how to take some of the comments. I'm just a guy who always wanted a mean sounding GTO. 

Geeteeohguy, you know that lawn chair thing is exactly what a buddy of mine is trying to get me to do. Being new to all this I asked wouldn't that get boring to sit there all day? I'm used to walking around checking out all the rides, not sitting in one spot all day. And now I have a 20 footer, I'm trying to make it a 10 

I wanted a driver, thus the bigger engine. Had I wanted a "lawn chair" I would have bought something with matching #s.

Instg8ter,the only thing I am swapping for sure is the "L" shape chrome above the lights. I decided to re-chrome the bumper once the snow starts to fly. In your opinion is this motor streetable? I was never told about the .30/.60 thing (not that I would have understood). It was presented as a "455 with a cam". He said the cam gave it a great sound, which is what I was looking for. I wanted my GTO to sounds real mean. 

Let me get this thing registered first, if I have no problems then I'll try to get down your way. Some of the comments got me scared to make such a long trip though. I'll see if I can line up a trailer and bring it by. 

Do you really think the engine was blown up? I have a box of parts he sent with the old cam, springs, etc....I don't remember seeing pistons, but they might be in the other box I haven't opened.

If I put taller gears in the rear it should calm it down a bit?

Thanks all


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> I'm new to all this guys, so I'm not sure how to take some of the comments. I'm just a guy who always wanted a mean sounding GTO.
> 
> .... In your opinion is this motor streetable? I was never told about the .30/.60 thing (not that I would have understood). It was presented as a "455 with a cam". He said the cam gave it a great sound, which is what I was looking for. I wanted my GTO to sounds real mean.
> 
> ...



Hold on there Cowboy --- take a deep breath and calm down little  Trust your instincts first --- how does it sound? How does it feel when you drive it? Is the steering tight? Does it want to wander on the road? You know more than you think you do - just let the car talk to you. Those intangible feelings you get when you drive it can tell you as much about what's going on with it mechanically as anything else.

There are many possible reasons for an overbore on a motor: just plain wear, some previous "problem", maybe even someone who just wanted more cubic inches on an otherwise fine engine. Fact is, you won't know the "why" unless he tells you and tells you the truth - and really it doesn't matter anyway. Either the motor as it sits is in good condition or it's not, and that you'll find out as you drive it. If it goes away on you then you'll have to deal with it, but there's no sense in inventing problems until they arrive, right? You've wanted a car like this for a long time so don't let all the "worry" cheat you out of being able to enjoy it. :cheers

You wanted something that sounds mean, and with that solid lifter cam (I looked up the specs) I bet you've got that - in spades! Changing rear gear isn't going to really "calm it down" any. In fact, that cam might be doing you a favor, depending on what heads, pistons, and compression ratio the motor has - that long intake duration could be helping the motor avoid "knocking" (detonation). Did the seller say anything about compression ratio or what octane fuel it needs?

I don't recall from your other posts -- is it a 4speed car?

First thing, I'd change the oil in it, check the plugs, re-adjust the valve lash (because of the solid lifters), drain and re-fill with fresh coolant, drain and re-fill the lubricant in both the transmission and rear axle --- all just to give yourself a known starting point - then drive and and get to know it, then see where you're at with it.

Enjoy :cool

Bear


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

:agree, You need to "settle down" a bit and look at the big picture! Mostly, enjoy what ya' got!:cheers


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks guys. I think my first step will be to go see Brian and let him look it over and give it a good driving. And yes, its a 4 speed. Unfortunately all I was told is it is a "455 with a cam". And I'm noob to all this so aside from knowing what a 455 and cam were it wouldn't have mattered what he said after that, would have been greek to me. I was told it has under 3K after the rebuild on the engine.

I'll try to get some video up of it running in the driveway.

I've been claying the paint the last 4 hours today, I am so hot and tired right now, but only a little more to go and the claying will be done.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Eric, aside from the paint I am very happy. Its just from the responses I have gotten on here that you guys have me worried its a dragster with a blown engine. lol.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Be straight with me guys, not sure if there is sarcasm in that post. Am I looking at dropping a new engine in it now?


No sarcasm, you are hopefully going to be ear to ear grins after you nail that thing..
If the overbore was done with quality parts, the motor should be bullet proof, but the previous owner was def a power junky.
Things break, and the motor did. Once rebored and reassembled it's good as new, or better! You do need to run premium at least at first. Call the seller back up and ask him what he ran in it. That car will have 500 plus ft lbs of torque, and probably 500 Horse Power. Hopefully he took some compression out of the car with dished pistons or open heads, but probably not. You may be on race gas. If it pings, get better gas. At 5 MPG the bad gas should be gone quick, lol.. You may want to talk to alky and Thumpin 455 about an ethanol conversion.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Got the whole car finally clayed. Only thing I didn't mess with is the rear bumper since it's so bad.










jetstang, if I gotta run race fuel (he never mentioned that) or ethonal then I'll likely sell it or put something else in it. I want a pump gas car which he said it was...but maybe he didn't know any better.

I also noticed he had to cut the trim in the rear to get those tires to fit. They look like they are already getting weathered. Anyone want them? I'd give them to someone if they wanted to pull them off the rims. I have no interest in slicks.

What is the proper process to start these things? Should I turn the key to the left to let the pump run? Or do I pump the throttle while starting?

Here is some video of it running. Note I didn't try to correct the rear bumper so it has a bunch of overspray I didn't wipe off yet. The car likes to idle at 1100 RPM and when I start it I keep it at about 1400-1500 so it won't stall. After a minute I feel its warm enough to idle so at 1:12 it is idling around 1100 RPM. Then about 2 minutes in I feel its warm enough to be safe with a few light revs. Around 2:18 I take it up to around 2700 RPM a few times. I know it could do more, but I don't want to kill the thing and as of now I don't know if its working properly until I go have it looked over.

The water gauge don't work that he installed and I'm not sure if the stock one works. And if it did, does it just light up when getting too hot?

Does it sound OK? I think it sounds pretty good


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

1100-1400 and the motor is rapping like that, that's a healthy cam. No smoke out the exhaust is good. Need a vid of the engine running to hear any bad things. It sounds great. Does it smell gassy when it's running? With that cam it will smell some, but not to gassy. If it's dumping gas, that will make the car sound more radical than it is, but I doubt it. Sounds tuned to a T, really good running. It probably doesn't have a choke at all, take a look at the carb and see.

Cam card says it all, and answers the compression/fuel question..

Solid-Rough idle, needs higher compression ratio. Maximum street performance. Use 3000 stall and low gear. 2500-6500 Power band, stock 455s don't like going over 5000 RPMs, so it better have good crank, rods and pistons in it.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I already have her all tucked in for the night, I'll get some video of the engine running for ya tomorrow. As for the choke, how will I know (I'm a noob)? I'll take a bunch of video and hopefully you will see what you are looking for. 

When Idling I don't smell gas, but after those revs I did I smelled a little something.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

thats what a Pontiac sounds like.....that thing will scare women and young children.....LOL. sounds like the 284 comp cam in my spare motor, long duration and lots of overlap. if the tire will fit in my wells i have a nearly new set of 245 60R15's i would swap you. paint is looking good!! just remember we are are own worst critics when it comes to these cars, most people won't notice the flaws only the kick ass piece of automotive history..


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks, I posted a link to the comp cam a few pages back. It has all the info you need to know and a bunch you probably don't. LOL.

I can see where he cut the rear trim pieces, but I don't see the same trim on your car. If you want the tires they are yours. Even if I stay with a tire that size I want something with some tread on it. But I really want to get Rally IIs or those ones from that red car I posted.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

8ter, it's a 294 duration solid, 5.25 lift!
Batman, you can get 15" rally twos off of Trans Ams, instead of the 14's. 14" tires are getting limited in sizes. 15s you can still get some meat under there. The aftermarket is making 16 and 17" for the custom stock look.
Edit: 66tempest isn't the biggest **** on here, see post below. I think you bought what you thought you wanted and may have stopped listening, or understanding when he started talking motorhead to you. That may be a $5000 plus motor in that car and is street limited, it is nasty prostreet/drag by the cam spec. You can't run power brakes in the car, it doesn't have enough vacuum for that, because of the cam. Seller may have told you what you want to hear, or something else, but that is a drag strip beast. I'll leave you alone now, sorry to be that guy..


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

i will preface this by saying, everybody knows im the biggest a-hole here. in my opinion, looks like you got a nice car but you spent more than you wanted to. go ahead and get it painted, you wont be happy until you do. the definition of a blown engine is loose at best. if it works good now, whats the problem. your friend should have told you that any old car is going to require some maintenance. until something proves otherwise it looks like you have a nice car with a powerful drivetrain that somebody has used like it was meant to be. if parking at the mall and b'sing is your thing it shouldnt matter how it runs but based on what you have said my guess is that it it is a mean machine. you are at a crossroads. you can be all paranoid and start second guessing and redoing everything on the car or you can put a tag on it and enjoy it every chance you get.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks for all the comments. I'm a noobie to all this and paranoid, so I guess that makes it worse.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I asked and she does run on premium pump gas.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

jetstang said:


> 8ter, it's a 294 duration solid, 5.25 lift!
> Batman, you can get 15" rally twos off of Trans Ams, instead of the 14's. 14" tires are getting limited in sizes. 15s you can still get some meat under there. The aftermarket is making 16 and 17" for the custom stock look.
> Edit: 66tempest isn't the biggest **** on here, see post below. I think you bought what you thought you wanted and may have stopped listening, or understanding when he started talking motorhead to you. That may be a $5000 plus motor in that car and is street limited, it is nasty prostreet/drag by the cam spec. You can't run power brakes in the car, it doesn't have enough vacuum for that, because of the cam. Seller may have told you what you want to hear, or something else, but that is a drag strip beast. I'll leave you alone now, sorry to be that guy..


I just seen your edit. No, I most certainly asked how streetable it was. And the answer was it was very streetable and was a nice cruiser. I only know the cam specs after the fact as I have most receipts and I looked it up. No motorhead talk really, like I said it was presented as a 455 with a cam. I found all the other stuff by reading receipts. Allot of our communication was via text, so I just reread.

Me: "How streetable is the car? Does is cruise on the highway ok?"
Him: "Never to the strip. Less than 3000 miles on motor with paperwork, built to cruise on the hwy don't like to tear them up I mean its a 66 gto there to rare"

Me: "what size tires are those?"
Him: "Iv got 50 series street legal slicks only cause so much torque that u will burn the red lines off in first just taking off lots of horse power "

So worst case can I just put a different cam in it? Street limited in what respect? I just emailed the guy with what you said, will see how he responds.

I'll be able to drive it tomorrow and be the judge for myself.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Me: "what size tires are those?"
> Him: "Iv got 50 series street legal slicks only cause so much torque that u *will burn the red lines off in first just taking off lots of horse power *"
> So worst case can I just put a different cam in it? Street limited in what respect? I just emailed the guy with what you said, will see how he responds.
> .


He put the slicks on so he can just get the car moving, as when you let the clutch out it spins the redlines all the time, as I'm reading.. That's what I mean by street limited. You have to launch the car to get it moving, no just letting out the clutch and drive away. It doesn't make power in the low RPMs and will fall on it's face if you try to just pull out slowly.
Yes, you can put a smaller cam in it to mellow it out, and it will still be fast.
If that motor matches the cam, there is a good crank, pistons and rods in it. Try to find the receipts and post up the numbers if you can. Maybe Mr. Pbody or someone can run your numbers and tell the horsepower numbers that beast is putting out. I would think that car could hit the 11's in the quarter mile, and that's fast.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yes Batman the cam is what times all the firing and exhaust events and and defines the power curve of the motor. Race/High performance cams bring the power on higher in the RPM range as you launch in that range. You will probably find that cam starts pulling real hard at around 2500 (hold on to the wheel) and like Jet stated you want to keep your 467 under 5500 redline unless you have a forged crank and rods. The cam can be changed along with lifters and possibly push rods to bring the power in earlier and all in by 5500 rpm so its there right when you want it. Here is the same motor as yours with a cam that pulls a smooth curve from idle to 5500 rpm it will not sound as choppy and mean as yours does but it growls nice when you mash it.



cam specs

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1759&gid=278


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Instg8ter, that sounds pretty good to me.

So you guys think I'm stuck with the slicks? Between texts we would talk on the phone as well. I was let to believe if I didn't get on it too hard I could run the redlines. Maybe I can at least get a tire with tread on it the same size as the slicks?

I guess the good news is you say I can tame it down a bit with a new cam. For a car never taken to the strip I guess I mistakenly assumed (along with his responses to my questions) that it was a nice streetable car. But what cost am I looking at to put one in?

Lol, too many decisions. There is so much going for this car. Its a true cali survivor after all. But now I need motor work, paint, chrome, probably other things. I'm wondering if I should cut my losses and buy another one with better paint and a drivable motor. I really don't like the look of the slicks\ralley 1s and want my car to look like the red one as far as stance and tires. Honestly I didn't think you could make a 455 undrivable since it was a stock motor in later models. Well at least I'm learning.

Who knows, maybe somone who has had a stock GTO for a long time might want to trade.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

Personally, I'd keep the slicks mounted on your wheels and keep them for track excursions or late night street prowling... And get a set of 15's in 7 and 8 inch widths to run some redline radials.

Your really not gonna know this cars street manners without putting some miles on it. Let me tell ya, everybody's definition of "streetable" is different.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

batman....with 400 FT lbs torque in a mild cammed 467 it will roast any tire that will fit in the wheel wells if you want it too. :agree with Alky...."streetable" depends on what you want to do with the car i.e. cruise it on the weekends for show, daily drive it, drive it to the strip and race it before driving it home, each would be built a bit different, because to accel at one aspect you sacrifice in another. Like everyone is saying take a deep breath (we all know the thrill you are feeling and the adrenaline rush) DRIVE IT!!! and see how it fits...do you just pick a pair of shoes off the rack and not try them on? And by the way the rush you feel now is nothing compared to the rush you you will feel when that twisting of the car you described while revving it is actually transferred to the pavement that is torque my friend and and it gives "seat of the pants" a whole new meaning.....arty:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I spoke with the seller again, he said he had the .060 done because .030 just wasn't enough for him. He also said I can run any tire as long as I don't get into it. He said it accelerates ok, even at low rpm. So he said I can just let the clutch out and accelerate normally as you would any DD and she will get moving just fine.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> I spoke with the seller again, he said he had the .060 done because .030 just wasn't enough for him. He also said I can run any tire as long as I don't get into it. He said it accelerates ok, even at low rpm. So he said I can just let the clutch out and accelerate normally as you would any DD and she will get moving just fine.


I'll tell you this, you must be made out of way stronger stuff than I am.... NO WAY could I let that thing sit and run right in front of me and not drive it!!  

That video definitely made my mouth water... I'd love to hear another one shot from the point of view of the engine compartment.

If you don't listen to anything else anyone says, please listen to and heed this: 

*The only opinion that matters is yours. *

We're all "remote" from it and can only make inferences from the information you share with us. And, like everyone else we all have our opinions and biases based on our own experiences and knowledge. 

So much of dealing with these cars is subjective anyway. "Streetable" to one person might mean "cruise control, automated climate control, remote start, GPS, can't hear the motor run with the windows rolled up" --- and to someone else it might mean "have to warm it up for 10 minutes before it will idle, no stereo because you couldn't hear it over the lifters and headers anyway, no a/c, no power accessories, impossible to get rolling without chirping the tires, only gets 4mpg on a good day, motor's at 3500 rpm at 55mph, can't drive it in the rain due to hole in the hood to clear the blower..." ---- it's all a matter of what your priorities are and what you're willing to "live with" in order to have them.

Let me re-emphasize what I said before. Get some seat time in this car before you even THINK about changing anything on it. Find out how well it suits YOU. Then and only then, if there are things about it that you decide you can't live with - we'll all be happy to bury you with diverse and often conflicting opinions to sort through


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

LOL, the thing is the comments on here got me scared to death to drive it. Reving in the parking lot is one thing, but I'm afraid I'll shift into second and do a 180 on the freeway...at least that is the picture these post got me seeing. I'd like the car to be easy and safe to drive (when driving as you would a DD), I don't want to be on pins and needles afraid its going to spin out.

I wish Brian was closer, I'd feel allot better if he took it for a spin first. I want someone who knows how to handle these beasts to give it a go. I've never driven anything like this before. Even my G8 I can hammer the throttle and it will go straight.

My original intent was to get a supercharger, headers, tune, rims, etc for the G8. I decided to get my dream car instead after adding up all those mods. And I just like them to sound and act mean. I won't take my babies to the track, lol.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> LOL, the thing is the comments on here got me scared to death to drive it. Reving in the parking lot is one thing, but I'm afraid I'll shift into second and do a 180 on the freeway...at least that is the picture these post got me seeing.


Only one way to find out... :rofl:

If it DOES do a 180 the instant you bang second, I WANT TO BUY THAT CAR!!! :lol:

Bear


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

You just need to learn to drive by the seat of your pants.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I'll get some video up of the engine reving today....I won't take it to the road just yet  I need to build up some more confidence. lol Plus I need to get some wax on her, paint is completely stripped after my marathon clay session.


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

BearGFR said:


> --- and to someone else it might mean "have to warm it up for 10 minutes before it will idle, no stereo because you couldn't hear it over the lifters and headers anyway, no a/c, no power accessories, impossible to get rolling without chirping the tires, only gets 4mpg on a good day, motor's at 3500 rpm at 55mph, can't drive it in the rain due to hole in the hood to clear the blower..."


Who you talkin 'bout Willis? :lol:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

lol, you guys are funny.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

I'll come put it through its paces....... 467 4 speed ...MMMMMMMM wanted mine to be a stick but because some day it will be the daughters and i cringe at the thought of teaching her to drive a stick in it, i opted for the slap stick auto. Batman back it up and down the drive, get a feel for the clutch and the revs it takes to smoothly get it rolling in your sub or side streets, worse that can happen is you stall it, get a feel for where it wants to be shifted up to second should not need more than that at 25 once you are rolling and from there its all smooth sailing, just give it the respect it's due...if they did'nt command a little respect no one would want one. You will notice that there is no bench racing or kills posts from the guys with the classics....too much blood sweat and tears not to mention money in them to beat the crap out of them. Thats not to say they do not get driven like they were originally intended legally on the street, if I want to go 105 in 13 seconds thats what the track is for and the time slip will do the talking on the street. It's funny at the cruises here they pour out the water and do smokey burnouts all day long and i have yet to see a GTO driver oblige, i chalk this up to "i know what i have so why flaunt it"


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## MOTONATE (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok, Ive read all 8 pages of this thread now, and all I can say is....."drive it!"

I understand you are nervous of how its gonna handle with all the torque/HP that it could have. But its only gonna get sideways if you mash your right foot down to the ground. 
Have you ever ridden a motorcycle, or do you remember the first time you drove a stick? Just ease out the clutch and see what it does. Im positive you will be fine driving it, even if you are 16 :lol:
Dont do anything until you drive it and see how you like it. 
You should go through all the fluids though and drain/replace them though.
Sounds like you have a pretty solid car, and it wont take alot of work to get it to where you think it should be.

Nate*


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

ALKYGTO said:


> Who you talkin 'bout Willis? :lol:


... and makes you smile so big when you drive it that your ear lobes cramp :lol:


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Instg8ter said:


> ...It's funny at the cruises here they pour out the water and do smokey burnouts all day long...


People do that? Really?  Bunch of ::cough spit:: chevy guys no doubt. :rofl:

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

yep Bear, (cough spit) them and the 5.0's. there's a few nice Tempests running around that i am hoping to get some photos with at the Dream Cruise will take my good camera and get some shots of GTO row they will be gathering in all Pontiac area at one of the hotels in Pontiac , MI.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Batman, my sister's cat's grandmother has a '66 Tempest with a built 326 that'll make mincemeat out of your car......blow your doors clean off. She takes _her_ car out of the _driveway_!!!


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## 68greengoat (Sep 15, 2005)

Batman, tell ya what, I'll bring my 15 year old daughter over and she can take the first drive and tell you how it runs..... Really not sure why the nerves are so frazzled. Get it on the road! There is nothing to worry about. That pedal on the right is called the gas pedal. You can push it down as little or as much as you want depending on how fast you want to go. You're the man, you're the one who controls how fast you go, not the car.... It's not like it's Christine or anything..:willy::cheers


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

All great advice. Just drive the car, be carefull and then tell us what you think, it should be a good adrenaline rush, fun. I would love to drive it. Just get a feel for it first. Lots of guys here and commenting building stupid fast cars on here, some aren't running yet, and they are trying to get to where you are.. You don't take a good motor down and rebuild from .030 over to .060 over to pick up cubic inches, that's just not worth it, he hurt the motor, and had to bore it, but whatever, maybe he fixed whatever went wrong last time. If you have a G8 and this is ill tuned, it may not be faster, if it's right, it will be quicker and fun.. You will be talking about it all night, nothing like seat of your pants torque. Now, go take it around the block! That motor sounds fun.
If you had stole the car for $4k, that thing would already need a new set of tires, I understand that..


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I wonder if the guy checked the line-bore on the mains after he spun the bearing? I sure hope so....there's a lot at stake if he didn't.......


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Lol, this will be the first time driving a manual. I had to Google how to drive one....so ya, a bit nervous after you guys told me what a beast it is. I figured a real muscle car should have a manual so now was the time to learn.

So any cat, grandma or 15 year old girl who has driven a manual most certainly could drive this thing better than me 

And I know I payed allot, but I sure hope its worth more than 4k.

I didn't make it to dmv so not titled yet. I'll attempt a drive when I get that done.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

geeteeohguy said:


> I wonder if the guy checked the line-bore on the mains after he spun the bearing? I sure hope so....there's a lot at stake if he didn't.......


Not sure, but he had a shop do the work.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Lol, this will be the first time driving a manual. I had to Google how to drive one....so ya, a bit nervous after you guys told me what a beast it is. I figured a real muscle car should have a manual so now was the time to learn.
> And I know I payer allot, but I sure hope its worth more than 4k.
> .


I thought it may be a money issue, if it would be cheap you would have driven it like you stolen it, unless you cant' drive a stick, OH, NO!!
I would go get a rental car with a manual and abuse that clutch, not this one. I wouldn't even attempt to learn in that car. Get someone elses car and practice. Once you have a feel for clutch control, then maybe. That clutch isn't cheap, get good before you drive it, or you will burn it up. You have to slip a clutch to get it going, and slipping is what kills them, riding the clutch isn't good.
Oh well, lol, wow, 
How old are you?


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Lol, now you see why I wanted someone like Brian to drive it first to be sure everything is alright. Not everyone grew up working on cars cool cars, my first was a mini van Anyway, I don't want to die having never tried. I figured this was as good a time as any to learn. I was told by several people that a stick isn't that hard to drive and not to worry about it. So I didn't. I passed the first step by knowing how to start the engine 

Now on to something I can do myself, buffing paint

Remember the marks all over the trunk? Well some of them are still there, but I worked out 80% of the other stuff. Rest will require wet sanding and even then some are too deep, so I'll leave it as is. It looks 100 times better.

Before:









After (Note the orange peel, but whatever. I'm not going to worry about that). It was almost dark when I finished, so I might be redoing some of it once I see it in the sun, but either way it is so much nicer than before:


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

You dont' have anyone around you to show you how to drive a stick? Or explain the basics? Post something on craigslist and pay them $50 bucks to show you in their car. Wish I could be there for you, or I can, plane ticket away, lol.. Had a car like that back in 90, nasty solid cam 396, 4.88 gear, no PS, or PB. Roast the tires off at 40 MPH just nailing it. Fun car, but 3000 RPMs at 40 MPH in 4th didn't make it very streetable, but you have a normal gear in it.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Good advice. Best thing to do would be to go rent a manual Mustang GT or something similar for the weekend so you can get used to driving a manual with some power. Take a buddy with you to drive it out of the rental lot if you aren't comfortable doing that yourself, then go have some fun.

I'll bet you find you take to it quicker than you thought... 


Bear


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## MOTONATE (Sep 12, 2008)

Gotta be 25 to rent a car. Not sure he is........


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Batman, listen to these guys. Rent a car and get a friend/co-worker or hire somebody from on line to help you out. You do NOT want to tear up your new car or yourself. A lot of bad things can happen really fast with the power you have. I was just pulling your leg with the spun bearing remark, etc...it was too easy, and I couldn't pass it up. But listen to us: get some help.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

lol, it went from grandma cats can drive this thing to don't even attempt to drive it:rofl:

Assuming I try to drive it like ol grandma kitty you still really think I shouldn't try in this car? I assumed a smooth stead throttle foot would be safe, obviously I wouldn't floor it while learning. The google article made it sound easy anyway.

I really want to get it on the road to make sure everything it OK with it. And to see if its as nasty as you all say. It sounds exactly like I wanted it to. I hope I don't have to put a new cam or motor in it

It sounds like rain next 2 days here, I still need to finish buffing the paint and get some wax on her. If the trim looked a little better the paint might be passable when I'm done


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

This is a true story: 1n 1979, my best friend talked a neighbor out of selling her original, cherry '67 GTO that she'd gotten as a high school graduation present. The car didn't even have 100k on the clock. He got it for $1350, which was a great price. Car needed nothing. Nice original paint, mint interior, ice cold AC. THe VERY FIRST NIGHT he had it, we were out on a beer run (nobody had even had one drink yet) and he said "I'm gonna burn rubber out of this stop sign". The minute he floored it, the car started to fishtail, (positraction) and he overcorrected and we went right through a backyard fence, burning rubber, and into a tree. The car was wrecked pretty bad, and the original owner saw it the next day and almost cried. Luckily, we were able to score a same-color entire front GTO clip at the local boneyard for $100, including radiator and condensor. Still, what a mess. He never did THAT again! So, moral of this long winded story: take your time, and go slow. If things start to get weird, PUSH IN THE CLUTCH AND GET OFF THE GAS!!


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow, a stock GTO can do that? Only reason I went big on the motor is my buddy said the stockers were weak. Lets just say I had a little encouragement from him to get my particular GTO.

Good to hear real stories like this. Thanks for sharing.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Sounds like "your buddy" is a ::cough spit:: chevy guy who doesn't know any better. The GTO didn't earn its reputation by making a habit of -losing- to the SS 396 

There's a guy who's sort of "famous" in Pure Stock musclecar racing circles. Jim Mino - he's got a -bone stock- '68 Firebird with an original 400 Ram Air II engine that consistently runs high 11's in street trim with D.O.T. legal tires.

Nothing makes bottom end torque like a Pontiac. The only thing that's even close is the Stage 1 455 Buick.

GeeTee makes a good point. The cars are relatively simple to drive - until something goes wrong and you start to freak out from all the adrenaline dumping into your system - you'll forget your own name, let alone how to operate a clutch or why you should... :willy:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Lol, yeah, he is a chevy guy. Good info. 

I'll start looking for a nice GTO that has a stocker in it and was a frame-off.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Just cause it has Wide Open Throttle, doesn't meen you have to drive WOT the first couple times you drive it.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

I have a couple questions for you.

First one: Look at the heads, there will be a number or number and letter cast into the center exhaust port. Give us that number and we will have an idea of how much compression it has, or could have. If you dont need to run premium, then there is no need to buy the more expensive fuel.

Second: You have a G8 right? Is it a V8 car? If it is, then it is possibly not far from the power this one makes. If you can handle the G8, you can handle the 66 GTO with a 455. If it has something like unported 6X heads on it, then you are looking at mid 13s at best.

Last: Why havent you driven it yet? Take your time, learn how to drive stick, and get used to it. Its not a big deal, its an old car with a big engine. Just keep the RPM under 5500 and putt around like granny's cat. Stop worrying and go enjoy this thing, just be smart about it and get used to driving it before you find out what it will do.

I have a 700hp 467 in a 79 Formula Firebird, it putts around ok, and it too needs sticky tires to get away from stoplights without roasting the tires. A stock sized tire on my car would be like driving on ice, but it could be done. You dont need lots of throttle to get these cars moving, just ease into it and find out what its like. Its only as fast as you want it to be.


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## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

Hey Jeff,Would have been a better story if you deleted "original", and 67 GTO that she had gotten as a HS graduation present....:rofl:arty::cheers


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

Rukee said:


> Just cause it has Wide Open Throttle, doesn't meen you have to drive WOT the first couple times you drive it.


Are you sure? I just can't seem to find the happy spot. Some time i want to reach into the engine bay and see if it will open a bit more. Now the Hayabusa is a different story no WOT on take off, but once your in 2nd then let it roll. best 2 wheeled roller coaster going.


Auto are cool I have some but manuals faster or not are just bad a$$ when your rolling thru the gears.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thumpin455,

First one: I assume I have to tear down the motor to see this? I searched each and every receipt with no luck on finding what heads are in there  I found one note from the previous owner before the guy I got it from and it did say 6x heads, but that is all and no mention of what is in there after he rebuilt it.

Second: Yeah, G8 has a v8 in it, but its an auto and stupid easy to drive. I can floor it on stock tires and never let up, she don't get squirly. Its bone stock with no tune.

Last: Biggest thing (aside from nerves) is I need to register it. Its so loud I won't risk getting the police called on me and not having registration. They are open late tomorrow so I'll be getting that done then. Every other day I just can't make it before they close. And no, there is not one close to my work. I'd also like to finish the detail so I don't have to re-do anything. It rained today, so I got no work done.

Well I looked through each and every receipt, but many are just hand notes and no specifics are given. I'll post links to everything I could find about it here.

Parts I found...note some might be repeats from a kit:

Shocks
Hooker Headers 4106-1HKR - Hooker Super Competition Headers - Overview - SummitRacing.com
COMP Cams 1061-16 - COMP Cams Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com
COMP Cams K51-246-4 - COMP Cams Magnum Solid Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
COMP Cams 4051 - COMP Cams Stud Girdles - Overview - SummitRacing.com
COMP Cams 986-16 - COMP Cams Valve Springs - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Moroso 68281 - Moroso Stamped Steel Valve Covers - Overview - SummitRacing.com
COMP Cams 7263-1 - COMP Cams Magnum Pushrods - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Summit Racing SUM-G3136-2 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Electric Fuel Pumps - Overview - SummitRacing.com
326-455 Pontiac Intake Manifold - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

I found this, but don't remember seeing it on the car:
Summit Racing SUM-381006 - Summit Racing® Aluminum Shroud and Fan Combos - Overview - SummitRacing.com

As for rims, I kinda like these, what do you think?


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Dont have to tear down anything, just open the hood and look at the center exhaust port. Its a big number/letter cast in the head. Things like 6X, 4X, 5C, 7K3, 7H1, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 670, 48, 46, 64. Good chance its one of those. 

I had a nitrous kit, never really used it. Didnt need it, I think I made one pass with it and got two tenths from a 175 shot. Gears were too deep to take advantage of it. Didnt hurt a thing, you would know if it was a problem.

I like those wheels, I have a set of Weld wheels like that and have been thinking of getting another. Its nice because I can use them on my Fords or the Pontiacs. Those wheels are one of the other, but they are cheaper.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

can't go wrong with the welds, "classic cool". Where bouts you live Batman may be able to get out your way, I travel around a lot for work. he's got good parts in it. is there anything in there from a machine shop? curious if he has forged rods, pistons and crank in there, may be built to run, but just for show, never know. i know guys that put crazy money into 700 horse motors and then just put around in them for the most part. Got The Tempest back up and running tonight after a header swap and a few other break in repairs over the weekend, was raining though so i couldn't go out and terrorize the neighborhood at dusk....LOL....


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Actually they are called "Ultra Wheel" half the price of Welds. Do you think I would notice any difference? Is 15x8 the biggest I can fit in there? What type of backspace do I want? I also think a wider tire up from would look more proportioned.

I was told it has 11 to 1 compression. I'm supposed to get all the specs Friday and I'll also get pictures of the tear down and rebuild.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

here we go.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

What?

BTW, I meant the seller is sending me pics from when he had it rebuilt. Not that I am getting it rebuilt. I re-read my post and I guess that might have been taken the wrong way.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> I was told it has 11 to 1 compression.


I hope that was just a sales pitch and not reality. Under normal circumstances that's way too much compression to be able to "live long and prosper" on pump gas.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't think so. He told me this yesterday when asking about the heads. Can't I just use some addatives to the fuel? I have no idea where to even buy racing fuel. 

It has 3K on the rebuild, anything I can look at to see if the pump gas is hurting the engine?

Oh well, I guess some mistakes cost more than others I guess as long as you learn from your misktakes is all that metters. In your opinion what should I do to fix this?

Thanks, sorry for the noob questions.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Hey, just got back home, spent a couple days on the road for work.
So, it has 11:1 compression, a cam that says it needs more compression, iron heads that won't live on pump gas at 11:1, and a seller that says it runs on pump gas.. Are the gas pumps at the Airport or Dragstrip??
Thumpin', I would put you behind the wheel of anything, you love speed, build and live it.. Others may need more OJT. That car is way quicker than 13.5. It's got all the good stuff.
Here we go from 66 Tempest was about the compression, that is race/old school compression, not anything for current street gas. 66 knows, he is running around with a radical small block getting 5 MPG in a 66, and is getting a motor from me that he can build milder so he can have a cruiser..
The pump gas is going to make the car ping/knock under power, not in the garage reving it up. Ping/knock will kill an engine real quick.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

If what you say is true and there is 3K on this motor on this setup I should see signs of this damage. What am I looking for?

I'll just have to wait until Friday when he is sending me all the info from the shop that build the engine. Only thing we don't know is pistons. He said he thinks they are forged and flat top.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

PO new what he was doing, and didn't put all that money into it and run crappy gas. SO I assume no damage to the motor from him.. If it was hurt it would be the rod bearings being hammered/egg shaped and the valves/valve guides from being rattled from ping.. Only way to run a high comp motor on pump gas it to take all the timing out of it, and that would make it slower.
What are the numbers in the middle of the heads above the exhaust port? If no number, put a magnet on the heads and see if they are steel or aluminum. The only heads that don't have numbers are aftermarket.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

What do I need to remove to see the exhaust port? I need to remove the headers? Sorry guys, this is all new for me.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Can't I just use some addatives to the fuel?


Buying "enough" to raise the octane "enough" to live at 11:1 would put your fuel cost well into the double-digit dollars per gallon range, if it were even possible. Problem is that if you're starting with 93 octane, adding in an additive that's maybe 96 octane ---- it's not possible to add enough of it to make the fuel 100 octane 



> I have no idea where to even buy racing fuel.


At a race track  --- and there are some speed shops that have been known to sell it "out the back door no questions asked" --- but of course at a price.



> It has 3K on the rebuild, anything I can look at to see if the pump gas is hurting the engine?


A lot depends on how much is has been run, how hard, and for how long (plus you can't guarantee in your situation that he didn't run it on race fuel the whole time he had it himself.) The two easy telltales are that it knocks when the motor is hot and "lugging" under load - like pulling up a steep hill in high gear at low rpm. Another is to remove the spark plugs and look at them closely with a magnifying glass. If they seem to be peppered with shiny, silvery specs on the white porcelain part of the center electrode then the motor has been detonating - even if you couldn't hear it knocking. Those shiny specs are coming from your pistons - being hammered/melted by the effects of detonation.

We keep coming back to this same conclusion though --- the best thing to do right now is to find a way to drive it and check it out yourself. There's no substitute for "hands on" with this stuff.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Well my only fear is if it does need race fuel and I drive it, I'll hurt the engine. I'm thinking I need to unload this thing before it's worthless.

So no matter what heads are on this thing 11 to 1 needs race fuel? With the exception of the timing being changed?


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

I just went out and took some pics of my 455 in the 70 GTO. If you take the same pics and post them, we will know what you have. If you look at where the headers bolt on, right above that is an alpha numeric code cast in the head. This code tells us quite a lot about the heads.

You can see 5C on these heads, which are from 1975, they have 2.11/1.66 valves, screw in studs, and they make for a nice pump gas 455. Depending on what that code is, your compression ratio will be higher or lower than this engine with its 8.8:1.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> What do I need to remove to see the exhaust port? I need to remove the headers? Sorry guys, this is all new for me.


No, look at the pic, ports are below this number, valve covers above. They're visible.
OK, you said it, "11 to 1 needs race fuel?" YES, always, evertime.
Your heads may be big chamber -8 heads and that would lose some compression, but that is not what the PO said.
Thumpin' can build you a methanol carb and then fuel is cheap, and it's good stuff!


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Anything on a 455 or even a 400 with iron heads that has over 10:1 is going to need more octane than pump gas can provide on its own. Most octane boosters dont do anything but lighten your wallet.

11:1 with some heads is easy, they are the small chamber 400 heads made between 1967 and 1970. Any head made after 1971 will lower compression enough to run pump gas on a 455. If it has those later heads on it and it has 11:1 then it has domed pistons, a flat top piston will not go that high without early heads. 

If it actually does have 11:1, and say a set of 12, 13, 670, or 48 heads on it, then a simple carb swap is all you need to make it run on E85. It doesnt hurt the car, is cheaper than pump gas, far cheaper than race gas, makes more power, runs cooler, and doesnt fill the engine with black carbon that wears the engine out faster. As long as it is nearby to you, there are only benefits to running it in a car like our old GTOs with high compression engines.

Chances are you will have later heads, and it will run fine on pump gas. Just get us the casting number from the heads and we can go from there.




jetstang said:


> No, look at the pic, ports are below this number, valve covers above. They're visible.
> OK, you said it, "11 to 1 needs race fuel?" YES, always, evertime.
> Your heads may be big chamber -8 heads and that would lose some compression, but that is not what the PO said.
> Thumpin' can build you a methanol carb and then fuel is cheap, and it's good stuff!


ETHANOL... Methanol is very different and requires special fuel system parts and you cant let it sit overnight in the carb. Ethanol is the stuff you drink in beer, wine, whiskey, or moonshine. Same thing and it runs great in cars.


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I think this is what you want...though if he bored it out and put other heads in wouldnt this mean nothing? I also just asked seller again, he ran 93 octane.

Thanks again for the help!


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> I think this is what you want...though if he bored it out and put other heads in wouldnt this mean nothing? I also just asked seller again, he ran 93 octane.
> 
> Thanks again for the help!


Now we're getting somewhere. Those heads are casting number 46. Now to posively ID then we need another number off them. It'll be 4 characters, probably an alphabetic followed by 3 digits. It will be one of two places: sort of on the "side" between the valve covers and the spark plugs, or under the valve covers (you'll have to remove one) in the "middle" of the head. This next code is the date code that will tell us the year they were made (it matters because there are 4 completely different heads that were code 46's)

While you're at it, see if you can get two more codes: one is another 4-digit code just like the date code on the head, but this one will be on the back of the motor next to the hole where the distributor goes in. The other code will be a 6 or 7 digit number on the rear passenger side of the block - down below the head, right next to where the transmission bolts onto.

Bear


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

im sure the seller loves you right now. :lol:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Is that good or bad? I guess had he given me the build details I wouldnt need to bug him.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Here's the info on the 46 head. All of them are small valve heads. Odd build.
428/350 heads? 72CC, small chamber.:confused

My 454 is all built up, and I know what it has, but the receipts are everywhere or gone.. So, same story.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

Small valve heads, probably not the small chamber heads though. They look just like the set I have with 90cc'ish chambers. Its definitely going to make some grunt, and with that cam in there it will be done by 4500 if the heads arent ported. Ported, they are pretty much the same as any ported D port, provided you add larger valves.


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## 66tempestGT (Nov 28, 2009)

i guess these would be good things to consider before the purchase. and a test drive.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Is that good or bad? I guess had he given me the build details I wouldnt need to bug him.


Well, we can't know for sure until you get us that date code. Right now there are several possibilities as to what they could be off of:

1969 400 290hp
1969 428 360hp
1972 350 175hp
1972 400 185hp
1973 350 170hp
1973 350 200hp (if they have screw in rocker studs)]
1973 400 190hp

In all cases the heads have the smaller valves (1.96 intake, 1.66 exhaust) unless they've been modfied.

The attached graphic shows you where to look for the date code. To help you figure out where to look, in your case, your heads are "ID Code" 46.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't see why the seller would get made by me wanting to know what is in the motor. Had it been stock and I asked theses questions I'd understand. But as far as I can tell you know exactly what is in there you would have to do a tear down. But he seems cool about it and is supposed to get me the details Friday.

Tempest, well a test drive was out of the question since I was 1400 miles away. All I had to go buy was what the seller said. I still believe there are honest people out there, and he seems like a real good guy on the phone. He has been honest so far, so why would he lie about pump fuel? I'm just going off of what everyone here has said. But really how can anyone know without knowing what the engine builder did? 

Well I found a number Bear, though I can't much make it out, but it is in the spot your diagram says. Possibly K142?:


















Here is a small video of it idling, it was getting dark and not sure anything here is of much value. And not sure what the little gauge is for, so I took a close up of it.






OK, don't laugh, but I took it for its first drive today, having never driven a manual I must say its more difficult than the manual makes it sound (I have the original manual and it tells how to drive a stick). And the crappy side mirror on this GTO is pointless, I won't get started on that thing. I only drove it a few miles before turning around. From the little driving I did I didn't feel it was the nasty prostreet dragster it was made to sound like. But I never took it out of 1st gear and past 35mph. Though one thing you guys did say seems true, it didn't want to cruise at 35 mph that nice, it was about 2500 RPM but had some type of hesitation in it (basically like when it tries to stall at low speed) while holding a steady throttle. It also stalled if I didn't have it at 2000+ RPM when letting the clutch out (no basis on whether that is normal). It took me a few tries to figure out how to get it to move without stalling. I also stalled at a stop light, just not used to revving the engine up so much, but at 2500 RPM the engine hardly sounds like its breaking a sweat. Also the manual steering wasn't that bad at all, except at a complete stop I didn't notice it. The brakes I didn't like and felt like when a modern car's pads are toast, I just gave myself a ton of extra braking room and waited until no cars were around to cross the intersection. I was pretty nervous and had enough after that short trip. I had to push it up my steep drive as I haven't figured out how to make it creep.

And am I missing something where that hole is?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

arty:arty:arty:arty:arty:.....the motor sounds good batman, find a nice big empty parking lot near you and practice running her through the gears, as with most things the anxiety is much more than the reality. the hesitation is her wanting to go into second, you have a pretty big (small) rear gear so first is just to get her moving. i would pop the wheels and check the brake pads should have at least a 1/4" on them, if you have never driven a car with manual drums they will feel like you describe because you are supplying all of the force.


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

Congrats on the test drive, back in one piece!! :cheers Not being able to go slow is what I was talking about, you'll just have to ride the clutch to go slow, my old Mustang 5.0 would lunge under 2000 RPMs, you had to get on it to go. Thats the issue with big cams. Take g8ters advice about the parking lot.
The hole in the carb shows the fuel level. The little gauge shows the fuel pressure. Motor sounds really good, I didn't hear the clicking of a solid cam, odd. PO has it running really good. Lots of expensive stuff on that motor, everything is high quality.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Well I found a number Bear, though I can't much make it out, but it is in the spot your diagram says. Possibly K142?:


Yep, that's what I read too - K142. Here's how that breaks down K is the month (A is January) so K is November. 14 is the day, 2 is the year - giving us November 14, 1972 as the date these heads were cast. So, these heads are for model year 1973 (foundry starts building parts for the next model year in about June/July of each year). So now we know these heads originally were on a 1973 engine, the 46 tells us they came off of a 350, and they orignally had pressed in rocker studs, 1.96" diameter intake valves, 1.66" diameter exhaust valves, and a "nominal" combustion chamber size of 92 cc's.
I say things like "originally" and "nominal" because even though they started life that way, they could have been modified at some point. They could have been cut for larger valves, they could have been shaved/milled to make the combustion chambers smaller, etc. The only way to know for sure would be to remove them and examine/measure everything. So for now, I'm just going to assume they're all "original".
Running "the numbers" on what we know so far and what we're assuming, which is:
.060 over 455 (4.21" bore, 4.21" stroke)
92 cc chambers (factory specs for 1973 "46" heads)
.042" compressed head gasket (factory spec)
.020" deck height ("usual" Pontiac dimension)
flat top pistons (which usually have 6 cc's worth of clearance in the valve reliefs)

...that works out to a static compression ratio of 9.584:1 --- a far cry from 11:1 --- but that's actually GOOD! With that long duration cam there's actually a chance this motor would be ok on 93 octane with that compression ratio. If perchance he zero-decked the block, then compression would be 9.949:1. Pretty iffy on pump gas at that point, but still nowhere near 11:1. To get to 11:1 he would have had to have milled the heads enough to reduce the chamber volume to about 80 cc's - which means they would have had to have been cut about .065" (give or take - using the standard 350 bore size as a guide) - which is a TON (and may not even be possible without cutting into the water jackets). That much would have required corresponding work to the intake manifold to get it to fit right. Again, I'm assuming a lot on the dimensions here but based on the evidence at hand, your honor, I doubt very seriously that this motor has 11:1 compression. 

Back to the codes.
Next codes you need to get for me are all off the block. I need 3 codes:
1) Engine date code (like the K142 you found) which will be located on the top middle rear of the block, very close to the distributor hole.
2) Block casting number (6 or 7 numeric digits) on the rear passenger side of the block, below the head, next to where the bell housing/transmission bolts on.
3) Engine ID code -2 characters, usually alphabetic - from the front of the block, on the passenger side, just below the cylinder head.

I've attached some photos that show where to get the codes from.

And, just for grins, what's the VIN number of this car?



> Here is a small video of it idling, it was getting dark and not sure anything here is of much value. And not sure what the little gauge is for, so I took a close up of it.


I can definitely hear the solid lifters, and that gage is a fuel pressure gage. It's useful for verifying that the fuel pressure is adequate to keep the carb fed, but not so high that it's going to force the needle valve inside the carb off the seat and cause flooding problems.



> Don't laugh, but I took it for its first drive today...


Great!!! About ^&*() time! All the behavior you described is exactly what I'd expect out of a motor that has the cam you provided. At low rpm it's going to be sluggish and want to stumble all over itself. Put your foot in it and get it up over 3000 rpm and it's going to be a different story 



> And am I missing something where that hole is?


No. That's a sight glass that let's you see the fuel level inside the carb's float bowl. It's used to help you adjust the float level on the carb.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks guys.

I'll check those codes when I get home. 

Bear, why do you guys keep asking for the VIN? Its a 242 car, I have the manual with matching ID plate in the back, so I assume it is a real GTO. You guys think its a clone? I had my sister snap a pic of the VIN when she looked at it and it is the same VIN that was on registration from last 3 owners (for some reason they gave me all these old registrations with the paperwork).


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I'll check those codes when I get home.
> 
> Bear, why do you guys keep asking for the VIN? Its a 242 car...


Sorry, I didn't realized you'd already checked all that. Honestly? I asked because the other evidence is leading me to believe that the seller hasn't been exactly forthcoming with accurate information. Example: why would someone put small valve 350 heads on a 455? and also very unlikely that it's actually 11:1.

Im just trying to look out for you and figure out what you've really got to work with there.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks Bear! I don't get any bad vibes from the seller. How else beside the VIN can I tells its a GTO? It is entirely possible that he doesn't know whats really in there and the builder helped him make the selection. All the receipts point to the builder ordering the parts for him and installing, even oil changes were done at a shop and not by PO.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

The 242 VIN nails it as a real GTO, unless the VIN tag itself has been altered but that's a rabbit hole not worth running down right now.

The other 3 codes I asked for off the motor will allow us to positively ID the motor: model year, orginial displacement and block type, and what kind of car it came out of originally.

It's still just weird to me for a hot 455 to have those particular heads so that's the main reason for wanting to verify what it is.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

OK, thanks. Check back tonight and I'll do my best to find those numbers.


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## Thumpin455 (Feb 17, 2010)

This has been a very interesting thread, and all of us are wondering what he was doing with those heads on a 455 and that cam...


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Please forgive my ignorance, but do those number guarantee they are those heads? Isn't there aftermarket heads he could have put in there? 

They PO also said the builder has pics of the teardown\rebuild he will mail me. But until then I guess we will be wondering.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

BatmanGTO said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, but do those number guarantee they are those heads? Isn't there aftermarket heads he could have put in there?


Well, anything is possible. That's why I said what I did about valve sizes, screw in studs, chamber volumes, etc. All of us who've put in all the time scouring junk yards and swap meets looking for rare Pontiac heads can take one look at what's on your motor and recognize that they're real cast iron Pontiac heads. 

Now, is it possible that those heads have been cut down to decrease the chamber volumes, have had screw in rocker studs installed, have had the seats cut and larger valves installed, and maybe even fully ported so they flow like gangbusters - you bet it's possible. I suppose it would even be possible to take a set of aftermarket E-heads and extensively modify them externally to make them look like an old beat up set of iron D-ports.

Here's the thing though - doing all that would have cost significant money and effort. Why would someone do all that, spend all that cash, take all that time, when it would have been so much easier and cheaper to just start with a set of the myriads of Pontiac D-port heads that are "out there" that already have big valves, screw-in studs, and a chamber size close to the target? It just doesn't make sense to do that - not to me at least. So, going with that as an admitted assumption, I keep coming back to the notion of what's the most likely scenario? Well, for me it's that those really are small valve 350 heads. Following on the heels of that, the next question is - why? What would make someone spend the money and put in the effort to do eveything else that's been done to this motor to make it B R E A T H E --- then choke it off with those tiny valves? It's like spending months of intense effort training and building lung capacity to run a marathon, then running it while breathing through a soda straw. I don't get it... 

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Maybe I can set up a call with the engine builder with one of you guys?


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## jetstang (Nov 5, 2008)

I have 2 Pontiacs with new motors. My 70 ended up with the stock heads after $450 at the machine shop there getting used. Then I got a great deal on a 69 motor, brand new internals, for $500 w/tranny. Yep, small valve heads. So both have small valves, and my 400 6x-4 motor is on a stand with a dead cam. Weird things do happen. Mine are both screw in studs. Why start with your heads, unknown, but there on there.. Nice to hear the compression was a fabrication, 11-1 sounds cool, except if you know what that means.. 9.5 is pump gas, congrats, he was only half lying.:rofl:


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

OK Bear, here is what I could find:

Date Code - K093
Casting - 485428 with a 7 farther down

Other numbers I am not sure:
24C108974
278895 zx
GM-7


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

November 09 1974
B body 455ci 2 bolt main 250hp 4bbl 400turbo trans L-75

Heads would have been 4x 2.11 1.66 valves and 114cc

Same block and ZX code for a 1973 F-body 3 speed 4bbl 2 bolt main 250hp L-75

Some sites say that 1973 46 head have 1.96 1.66 and some say 2.11 1.66 valves. The 74 46 GTO head had 2.11 1.66 screw in studs and 89cc

The other sites say 1973 46 heads 350 has 96cc and 400 had 98cc. Some say both had 98cc.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

likethat said:


> November 09 1974
> B body 455ci 2 bolt main 250hp 4bbl 400turbo trans L-75
> 
> Heads would have been 4x 2.11 1.66 valves and 114cc
> ...


Ayep... so it really is a 455 (whew) - and likethat brings up a good point about getting information from the "inter-tubes": just because you find something on a web site doesn't mean it's correct. Always make sure your own "b.s. filter" is in place and when you can, check multiple sites and crosscheck the information.

From what I've seen so far, you've at least got a fighting chance that this really is a pump gas motor so I don't recommend "going crazy" and changing a bunch of things on it until you've gotten some significant experience with driving it and also have some strong evidence that changes are needed.

You may have gotten lucky and have gotten exactly what you wanted: a car that sounds nasty but is ok on pump gas. Unless you care a lot about actually making the most possible power, then there's not much reason to lose sleep over it (probably) having the smaller valves.

Bear


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thank you all for the great information. And no, I don't really care if it is making the most power. I won't be dragging it, and even if I did it would be a long time before the engine was what was holding my times back.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Batman, I have a pair of "small valve" #15 heads I installed on my '67 GTO with the original 400 to get the compression down to 9:1. Small valves are not the end of the world. I upgraded to screw in studs and had them reworked. They work GREAT. Small valve heads offer superior torque at low rpms....excellent for a street driven 455 like yours. No worries, you'll be fine!!!


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## BatmanGTO (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks guys, I'm slowly starting to process and understand "some" one what you are telling me, lol. To be honest I don't care what is in the engine as long as it can run on pump gas and won't be toast in 4500 miles.


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## likethat (Oct 5, 2007)

If it was built with flat tops you might be golden. If it has dome pistons it might be 11:1. All sounds scary. Nothing to get all crazy about. You could try and look in the spark plug hole and see what is what or better yet ask the PO what pistons are in there part numbers are best but dome or flat top with do. If it starts pinging then a set of 6x #8 heads will fix all trouble. Dive it and see, which looks like you are planning to do.

When I got my 67 Camaro's 427 all done I was scarred to death to run over 1/4 peddle, because of all the money I put in it. After 6 months I was bouncing it off the revlimiter and tearing the tires up in 2nd gear.

Not that any one has to drive like an idiot. Just saying.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

A simple compression check would establish a rough compression ratio. If the cranking compression is 150--175psi, it's going to be 8.8-9.5 to 1 compression. If the cranking compression is 180-210, then it's a high compression engine. No need to tear it down, use borescopes, etc. It's an easy check and it's 'good enough'.....


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## DukeB-120th (Oct 19, 2009)

Congratulations on getting it out there, Batman! I remember when I first started to ride my motorcycle. They "taught" me how to shift gears and such at the safety course, but when I brought my own bike home a month later, I was back to square zero. It's all a matter of putting in the time to get used to YOUR particular ride. It took me the better part of a year to really get to KNOW the characteristics of my bike, and if you were to put me on a new one, it would probably take awhile for me to get the same competence. It will probably be the same with your car. Just drive the thing in a parking lot or a quiet road, and run that sucker up and down through the gears.

It also sounds like your 455 is going to serve you well. Appreciate what you got, and dont rush any of the rest of the "project." This beautiful American car should be a labor of love.

Also, maybe a trip to the nearest big box (Barnes & Noble) bookstore or an online shopping session for a book on Pontiac performance engines might be in order. Books on this sort of thing can be kind of dry when they are crunching minutiae such as dimensions for machine work and tolerances, etc. but attempting to slog through it will do wonders for your knowledge of this kind of stuff. I've got a Dakota I wanna build a 5.2 or 5.9L Magnum V8 for, so I picked up _How to Modify Your Mopar Magnum V8_.

I've never read either of these two below, but I figure it might be a good place to start. First one is by Jim Hand, who is a bigshot. when it comes to Ponchos.

Amazon.com: How to Build Max Performance Pontiac V8s (S-A Design) (0601784000783): Jim Hand: Books

Amazon.com: How to Rebuild Pontiac V-8s (Sa Design-Workbench) (Workbench How-to) (9781934709412): Rocky Rotella: Books

arty:


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