# To go tubular or not?



## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

I have spent sometime reading about converting from stock arms to tubular. I know i have some frame sag and there is a welded patch on the corner behind the front drivers tire. My question is with the known issues i have is it worth it to do the conversion? I don't autocross its just a cruiser and it just plain steers and rides like big O boat.
Can anyone provide feedback on what Chinese arms the used? I know the hardware and ball joints are usually poop and will replace them with something better. I also understand Moog components are not what the used to be and would love to hear alternatives.


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## O52 (Jan 27, 2019)

I used .5" taller upper and standard lower ball joints from UMI in my stock arms with made in USA Moog bushings.


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

O52 said:


> I used .5" taller upper and standard lower ball joints from UMI in my stock arms with made in USA Moog bushings.


what does the taller ball joint accomplish?


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## 67GTONUT (10 mo ago)

Changes the dynamic Camber Curve


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Aldo_45030 said:


> Can anyone provide feedback on what Chinese arms the used? I know the hardware and ball joints are usually poop and will replace them with something better. I also understand Moog components are not what the used to be and would love to hear alternatives.


Based on the above statement, I'd say you did your homework quite well. Nice work using the search function... most people ignore it.

Anywho, every cars steering and braking will improve with tubular stuff... if you need to change your OEM bushings any time in the near future, then a tube swap is definitely a great idea.

OTOH, if your existing stuff is fine, then it's still a great idea, but only you can decide if its worth the money. To me, it totally was!!!!!

There's an article in the FAQ on it, but specifically for using Chinese Banzai stuff and replacing the hardware, @ylwgto is the pioneer.

In fact, @ylwgto you chould do a write up about what you used and then I'll update my post in the FAQ with your alternative method. It does come up a lot.









FAQ - Chassis/Suspension/Steering: GTO SUSPENSION...


GM A Bodies/ Pontiac GTO's have a ton of room for improvement in their suspensions. Putting aside personal preferences for ride height and quality, if you want a car that: Handles better Brakes better Steers better Has no wheel hop Has increased traction Recovers quickly from burnouts and loss...




www.gtoforum.com


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## redhotgto66 (Sep 11, 2021)

i bought my car with the strong arm conversion kit already in place front and rear,most definently steers better then all my old goats did. so i'd say yes its prolly worth the coin, of course do 4 wheel disc while already there you wont regret at all.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Don't use chinese suspension parts if you can help it. US companies like Global West, UMI, & Spohn all make most, if not all, their stuff...and are not the higher-end expensive parts. They have a good reputation, and I am currently making a list of items to buy from all of them for my rebuild. The whole car can be converted to tubular suspension, springs & shocks included...along with a few side goodies for 3 to $4000. Or, break it into two smaller projects...front then back, in that order. Not that the front would have to be done 1st, but that would be my opinion so long as the back is not in need of immediate attention.

Now, if your car drives and rides like a boat, it may be that you need new bushings, ball joints, tie rods, steering box, center link, shocks, springs etc. These cars were rather boat-like to begin with and with worn out parts become more of a sled. You have to decide if you would be happy with a stock class cruiser or if you need to corner with the more modern cars...and if your perception of poor handling is worn parts or not. 

I drove my 67 for 70,000 miles before parking it for restoration and, stock, they are pretty impressive in a straight line, but cornering was comparable to a station wagon. Mine is getting the works, but I intend to drive a bit more aggressively than just back and forth to the parade.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Sorry, I somehow ignored your real question regarding your know issues. I strongly suggest you deal with the "sag" first and determine if the patch is stable. There is no sense in trying to get the car to handle better if the frame is bent or about to crack.


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

One more question ......
If you go tubular do you need to invest in offset control arm shafts since most arms have caster built in?

Going to dig thru my old parts to see if i still have my stock height spindles before i squeeze the trigger. I have read most of the arms have lower spring buckets and combined with my 2" drop spindles the ride height maybe to low. Would like to do this right 1 time my hands are going to heck.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

You really need to pick a manufacturer and then go from there. Most do not lower the car, but some do.

Most of them also come with control arm shafts


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

Ebay shopping only found one seller with what appears to be an offset control arm shaft.








Tubular Upper & Lower Control Arms For 1968-1972 Lemans Grand Am GTO Heavy Duty | eBay


1968-1972 Lemans, Grand Am, Grand Lemans, GTO, T37 and Tempest. Upper A rms are 1.125" OD -. 125" Wall Tubing. Lower A rms are 1.625" OD -. 156" DOM Tubing. Note: If you are uncertain about the compatibility, just send us your VIN.



www.ebay.com





any other observations? Will need to remove my headers to make the swap. The issue now is do i want to do so as it will open up more changes.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Well, our buddy seems MIA at the moment, so I'll see what can do.

No, you dont need to remove your headers, but the driverside, lower arm, rear bolt, will need finesse.

As for the upper arm attachment bolts, my method varies greatly from everyone elses. I just knock the factory bolts out, do the swap, and replace them with harden bolts. Alignments are effortless.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

What year is your car?


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

armyadarkness said:


> What year is your car?


67 Lemans 
got her up off the ground and started checking it out to make a plan. Looks like i have to take headers off, Jack engine up and remove steering shaft.
Now i am thinking about taking the whole dog house off and detailing the engine compartment.


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)




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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Aldo_45030 said:


> Looks like i have to take headers off, Jack engine up and remove steering shaft


Not on a 67, you don't!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

FYI, the kit you posted was for a 68 and up.


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> FYI, the kit you posted was for a 68 and up.


 They must be a special kits every one else kit runs 64-72 Global West, UMI. If you use the compatibility tool for that part it says its compatible.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> They must be a special kits every one else kit runs 64-72 Global West, UMI. If you use the compatibility tool for that part it says its compatible.


I suspected as much... but there were a few things that changed on the various years, which Im no expert on, so I wanted to point it out.


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

I noticed the same thing a little digging. Hopefully they’re the same probably depends on what province in China.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Aldo_45030 said:


> I noticed the same thing a little digging. Hopefully they’re the same probably depends on what province in China.


Most arms make no differentiation in the year fitment. I will say that I have no experience with offset shafts. Sounds a bit overly complicated, to me, but maybe it's just their wording?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Ed @O52 any thoughts?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I like this set... looks like a dead ringer for Global West, and has the geometry improvements 








Upper&Lower A Body Control Arms Set for Chevy Chevelle 1964-1972 Heavy Duty Arms | eBay


For Chevy Chevelle 1964-1972. 16 Pcs Hydraulic Roller Lifter Set for Chevy Big Block BBC 396 402 427 454. for Chevy Monte Carlo 1964-1972. for Chevy Malibu 1964-1972. for Chevy El Camino 1964-1972. Coilovers Shock for Honda TSX 04-08 +2 Rear Upper Camber Arms.



www.ebay.com


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## 67ventwindow (Mar 3, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> I like this set... looks like a dead ringer for Global West, and has the geometry improvements
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Oh to manufacture in a county with no Patent or copy right laws. I will hold out for the Gucci knock off control arms.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

67ventwindow said:


> Oh to manufacture in a county with no Patent or copy right laws.


And...

No:

OSHA
Health concerns
Environmental
Noise ordinance
Disposal regs
*In America, it's:*

Employee: Boss, look at this new part I pirated off our competitor!

Boss: Excellent job, Smith! But how will we get around the patent laws and avoid a copyright suit?

Smith: Easy! We're so much bigger than our competitor, our attorneys will counter-sue and bury this thing in court until they go out of business!!! And if not, we'll just "buy" the judge!

*In China, it's:*
Employee: Boss, rook at this new part I pirated off our competitor!

Boss: Excarent job, Chang! But how to get around the patent raws and avoid a copyright suit?

Chang: Easy! We so much bigger than our competitor, our attorneys counter-sue and bury in court until go out business!!! Herro Kritty! Me love you long time! Americans buy many!


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## Aldo_45030 (Jun 13, 2017)

Well bought a set on eBay bottom was snug top another story. Planning on notching the mount.
FYI if you post on the WTB forum plan on getting scammers.


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