# Svede vs. Vararam



## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

What is the difference if any between the Svede and the Vararam? Is the Svede basically just the same deal only a DIY version?


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

You can order one from Svede, but the wait time is 3-4 months(maybe more now, who knows), which is why I ordered mine in January.

I'll tell you this, the build quality is better, and the Svede looks like it belongs there when finished. As for performance, I couldn't tell you about the Vararam, but the Svede intake places the filter front and center, allowing the intake charge a straight shot into the TB, rather than having to make a 90° turn after the filter on the Vararam.

Price is roughly the same, +/-$10-20. Depends on your level of patience more than anything probably. Of course, you can always build one too.


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## dieseltweaker (Jun 2, 2009)

i have a vararam on my car. with the vararam it allows air to come from 2 places. it makes the hood scoops versatile. it seals against ur hood letting air come thru the scoops plus it filter tray goes over the radiator to pull air in from the front grills too. 

both system look good and look like they work about the same. its just which one u like better


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

You got any pictures of your Vararam installed? I removed the rubber snorkels from my scoops a while back. It would be nice to make them functional. Does the Svede make use of the snorkel's as well?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

dustyminpin said:


> You got any pictures of your Vararam installed? I removed the rubber snorkels from my scoops a while back. It would be nice to make them functional. Does the Svede make use of the snorkel's as well?


I answered most of your questions on the other board but no, the hood scoops are not used with my design. I have never seen any test of the VR with the scoops plugged and without but I'll go out on a limb and say that there would be no performance difference. On my car I have the front kidney grills fed straight into my intake thru a custom built box. That is a much larger and higher pressure area than the small hood scoops and I logged no significant difference in kPa of pressure in the manifold. I do like it as it drives in ambient air quicker but that's it. As I said before too you're limited to the 85mm MAF with the VR and will have issues with other TBs and NO2 plates. I can also tell you that I now have quite a few that have switched from the VR to mine and none that have switched the other way that I know of. Several have been what I'd consider heavy hitters that know their stuff and have done track testing. One more thought is I'd place more weight on track traps (adjusted for DA) than dyno pulls. Having an open hood on a pull does not replicate a real driving test.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

svede1212 said:


> One more thought is I'd place more weight on track traps (adjusted for DA) than dyno pulls. Having an open hood on a pull does not replicate a real driving test.


+1

And this is why "dyno tunes" can be hit and miss. The differences between dyno loads and real world loads with passengers, headwind, and wind resistance itself are like the differences between a love doll and a real woman. Sure they're similar... but they're just not the same.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

dustyminpin said:


> What is the difference if any between the Svede and the Vararam? Is the Svede basically just the same deal only a DIY version?


You have to concider your mods too. There is a post on here: Vararam choked by hood with FAST? - LS1GTO.com Forums You might be better off with Svede.

I have to see back to back comparisons of the two same car same day, same driver, ect. I would like to have the Vararam because I have a heat exchanger where ole Svede is.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

Poncho Dan said:


> +1
> 
> *And this is why "dyno tunes" can be hit and miss*. The differences between dyno loads and real world loads with passengers, headwind, and wind resistance itself are like the differences between a love doll and a real woman. Sure they're similar... but they're just not the same.


Same goes with track times too. I like how people say take it to the track, not everyone into drag racing thats not the only motorsport out there.

I had an experianced tuner tune my car he tuned it on the street first then on the dyno. He said he got it pretty close on the street but had to tweek it on the dyno. And not everyone dyno tunes with the hood open, witch is a misconception too.

I would like to see comparisons between all the intakes available for the GTO like GM HighTechPerformance Mag did. The compared all the intakes available for the new Camaro. It was a darn good test too. It get rid of all the he said she said crap that I allways see.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

GM4life said:


> Same goes with track times too. I like how people say take it to the track, not everyone into drag racing thats not the only motorsport out there.
> 
> I had an experianced tuner tune my car he tuned it on the street first then on the dyno. He said he got it pretty close on the street but had to tweek it on the dyno. And not everyone dyno tunes with the hood open, witch is a misconception too.
> 
> I would like to see comparisons between all the intakes available for the GTO like GM HighTechPerformance Mag did. The compared all the intakes available for the new Camaro. It was a darn good test too. It get rid of all the he said she said crap that I allways see.


Did they test like GTO1 Ohio did? He participated in a track day in which they drove for a while and then went straight to the starting line and did back to back runs. He did not suffer from heat soak. 

The strip is not only a place to race but an excellent place to tune for the street or circuit. Trap speed corrected with DA is an extremely good way of seeing that real world performance. As long as the driver doesn't totally suck between runs he can do a very good, real world comparison. For a fun test, everyone with a Volant, do a few runs and note the traps and then take the top off the box. You'll see a couple of MPH improvement. Another way to test an intake real world is to log IATs and MAPS. IATs will tell you the temps and MAPs will show any pressure drops from the intake back to the manifold. You can readily see differences.

I've gotten feed back from quite a few of what I'd consider to be knowledgeable people and it's all been favorable. Three that I know of are 10 second quarter mile cars and have tested various intakes (SNL, Vararam, Cold Air Inductions, LPE) until arriving at mine. Stock cars probably won't see much of a difference but anything else is going to get choked with that 85mm MAF and you don't have to test or even know much to realize that. The 85mm is all that will work on the VR and of course the intake won't work at all on a LS1. Some people with cams have also seen irregular MAF reading do to the closeness of the filter to the MAF and MAF to the TB from turbulence and air reversion.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

That was last month's magazine. It was a good article except for one thing. How in the flying frog f*ck could they leave out the K&N cai, the grand daddy of them all? Half the ones they had in there I hadn't even heard of!


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## dieseltweaker (Jun 2, 2009)

heres what my vararam looks like


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> Did they test like GTO1 Ohio did? He participated in a track day in which they drove for a while and then went straight to the starting line and did back to back runs. He did not suffer from heat soak.
> 
> The strip is not only a place to race but an excellent place to tune for the street or circuit. Trap speed corrected with DA is an extremely good way of seeing that real world performance. As long as the driver doesn't totally suck between runs he can do a very good, real world comparison. For a fun test, everyone with a Volant, do a few runs and note the traps and then take the top off the box. You'll see a couple of MPH improvement. Another way to test an intake real world is to log IATs and MAPS. IATs will tell you the temps and MAPs will show any pressure drops from the intake back to the manifold. You can readily see differences.
> 
> I've gotten feed back from quite a few of what I'd consider to be knowledgeable people and it's all been favorable. Three that I know of are 10 second quarter mile cars and have tested various intakes (SNL, Vararam, Cold Air Inductions, LPE) until arriving at mine. Stock cars probably won't see much of a difference but anything else is going to get choked with that 85mm MAF and you don't have to test or even know much to realize that. The 85mm is all that will work on the VR and of course the intake won't work at all on a LS1. Some people with cams have also seen irregular MAF reading do to the closeness of the filter to the MAF and MAF to the TB from turbulence and air reversion.


Yeah I understand all that, thats not new to me. Folks don't understand not everyone mod there cars for the purpose of drag racing. Don't take what I said the wrong way Jerry. I saying the way to shut people up like me is the data in their face. Thats what does the talking for me. I know you tested your intake and others I'm not doubting your info. You just have to understand me and my back ground. I understand the dragstrip its not new to me. Its not the end all for everything. Like you said MAP's, MAF, IAT's, ect is what I like to see.

I don't know who GTO1 Ohio is, I don't spend too much time on LS1 anymore. I'm like a seaman I'm in and out But what you are saying is pretty much how GMHTP did it. They done two runs down the track, compared IAT's, MAP's, MAF's, two dyno runs, ect. kept the coolant temps the same. They also threw in some fuel trim results in there.

Your intake just wont work for me because of the Maggie, I wish there were OTRCAI available for the Maggie. I don't have time to make my own, if I did it would be something like the Vararam.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

dieseltweaker said:


> heres what my vararam looks like


You might want to double check that it's sealing against your hood. I had to add pipe insulation twice to make it tall enough to seal. You gotta keep that hot air out. Insulate the bottom of the tray if you didn't. It'll make a world of difference.


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## dustyminpin (Jun 19, 2006)

Does the vararam and the svede both use mass airflow sensors?


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

dustyminpin said:


> Does the vararam and the svede both use mass airflow sensors?


Yes, but a Svede said your limited to the stock MAF with the Vararam. It would only bother you if your planning on upgrading your stock MAF.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

GM4life said:


> Yeah I understand all that, thats not new to me. Folks don't understand not everyone mod there cars for the purpose of drag racing. Don't take what I said the wrong way Jerry. I saying the way to shut people up like me is the data in their face. Thats what does the talking for me. I know you tested your intake and others I'm not doubting your info. You just have to understand me and my back ground. I understand the dragstrip its not new to me. Its not the end all for everything. Like you said MAP's, MAF, IAT's, ect is what I like to see.
> 
> I don't know who GTO1 Ohio is, I don't spend too much time on LS1 anymore. I'm like a seaman I'm in and out But what you are saying is pretty much how GMHTP did it. They done two runs down the track, compared IAT's, MAP's, MAF's, two dyno runs, ect. kept the coolant temps the same. They also threw in some fuel trim results in there.
> 
> Your intake just wont work for me because of the Maggie, I wish there were OTRCAI available for the Maggie. I don't have time to make my own, if I did it would be something like the Vararam.


I Googled the article last night and read it. It was probably one of the best I've seen of such comparisons. What's interesting (and I knew this was going to happen) was that the best intake didn't dyno the best . Dynos are a great TUNING tool and people place too much on them IMHO. They, as I've suggested, used IATs and MAPs which is exactly the right way to test an intake as other than cleaning air that's what they do. They aslo used speed of which traps are very effective. I'd like to have seen a 3rd gear pull but that would take them into "speeding" which is I'm sure why they didn't do it. One glaring problem with their test was the varying temps in which they compared. The temps ranged from 46* to 73* which are significant. I'd also like to have seen tuning between intake changes.

They also misled a little about what MAP is, it's not always 100 kPa. The maximum ambient MAP is the local barometric pressure. There is a direct correlation between MAP and in/Hg. 100 kPa is 29.5 in/Hg (local). I say local because the baro pressure they give for weather is sea level corrected so they can draw their isobars. If you're at altitude the weather man could say it was 30.2 when it is actually 98. Where I am MAP in kPa ranges from 99 to 103 kPa. That's why a speed density tune doesn't care about altitude. It will correct in the tables for whatever kPa is entering the engine.To find your current local pressure turn on the turning software and turn on the key of the car without starting it. Whatever it says is your baseline for that place and time. When you floor the car the TB blade opens all the way and the MAP sensor which is in the manifold will read how much air pressure is in it. If there is a restriction (intake, TB, etc) your MAP will be less than your current local MAP and at the highest RPM where you're demanding the most air the MAP will be most affected.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> I Googled the article last night and read it. It was probably one of the best I've seen of such comparisons. What's interesting (and I knew this was going to happen) was that the best intake didn't dyno the best . Dynos are a great TUNING tool and people place too much on them IMHO. They, as I've suggested, used IATs and MAPs which is exactly the right way to test an intake as other than cleaning air that's what they do. They aslo used speed of which traps are very effective. I'd like to have seen a 3rd gear pull but that would take them into "speeding" which is I'm sure why they didn't do it. One glaring problem with their test was the varying temps in which they compared. The temps ranged from 46* to 73* which are significant.
> 
> They also misled a little about what MAP is, it's not always 100 kPa. The maximum ambient MAP is the local barometric pressure. There is a direct correlation between MAP and in/Hg. 100 kPa is 29.5 in/Hg (local). I say local because the baro pressure they give for weather is sea level corrected so they can draw their isobars. If you're at altitude the weather man could say it was 30.2 when it is actually 98. Where I am MAP in kPa ranges from 99 to 103 kPa. That's why a speed density tune doesn't care about altitude. It will correct in the tables for whatever kPa is entering the engine.To find your current local pressure turn on the turning software and turn on the key of the car without starting it. Whatever it says is your baseline for that place and time. When you floor the car the TB blade opens all the way and the MAP sensor which is in the manifold will read how much air pressure is in it. If there is a restriction (intake, TB, etc) your MAP will be less than your current local MAP and at the highest RPM where you're demanding the most air the MAP will be most affected.


I try to find it on their website last nite to post it up for you, but it was late for me. I noticed the ambiant too. And thanks for clearing up the MAP readings because I was :confused on what they was saying.


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## dieseltweaker (Jun 2, 2009)

06gtoin216 
I never noticed that the VR system doesent seal up to the hood. i was just out and looked at mine and theres about 2 inches of gap for hot air to enter. how did u seal your VR to your hood. 

Id buy a svede since they fit properly and you dont have to modify it to work


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

svede1212 said:


> Stock cars probably won't see much of a difference


Oh, I wouldn't say that...:cool Maybe without a respective tune.

In my experience, my intake opened up more midrange and especially top end. 100% stock, it felt like the motor ran out of steam past 5500, and now I notice power past 6000. My mpgs are up by about 2 across the board, too.


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## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

dieseltweaker said:


> 06gtoin216
> I never noticed that the VR system doesent seal up to the hood. i was just out and looked at mine and theres about 2 inches of gap for hot air to enter. how did u seal your VR to your hood.


Get the biggest pipe insulation you can find. The gap on mine was also two inches but the biggest piece i could find was 1.5 inches so i bough two and doubled it up. Don't forget the insulation for the tray too. It gets very warm sitting on top of the radiator.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

That's what's really sad about the VR. Besides it's other limitations you have to field engineer it to make it work like the "symbol of excellence" sticker says. They really made a shoddy product out of a fairly good idea. Mine's just a DIY project but i actually cared about it.


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

svede1212 said:


> That's what's really sad about the VR. Besides it's other limitations you have to field engineer it to make it work like the "symbol of excellence" sticker says. They really made a shoddy product out of a fairly good idea. Mine's just a DIY project but i actually cared about it.


Your "C"AI sucks, its ugly, and it does not sound good. I have to cut my radiator cover and its too expensive. Is it CARB legal, my answer is NO! So I rather have a K&N intake that looks, sound good and is CARB.
























































Hehehe


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## sleepindirty (Mar 31, 2010)

GM4life said:


> Your "C"AI sucks, its ugly, and it does not sound good. I have to cut my radiator cover and its too expensive. Is it CARB legal, my answer is NO! So I rather have a K&N intake that looks, sound good and is CARB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that is the first bad thing ive seen someone say about his CAI. i do see that there has to be some modification to the shroud. but what is wrong with the sound?


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

sleepindirty said:


> that is the first bad thing ive seen someone say about his CAI. i do see that there has to be some modification to the shroud. but what is wrong with the sound?


He's pulling my leg. It isn't CARB legal but I'm boycotting California for boycotting Arizona. LOL. Honestly nobody that has had both have had anything but good things to say about mine and that has fueled a crushing work load.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

Why can't it be CARB legal? You supply a PCV connection...


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Because you have to give them money (what else) and go thru their certification process. You know and I know it's in compliance to physics but we're talking government not logic here


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## GM4life (Mar 18, 2007)

sleepindirty said:


> that is the first bad thing ive seen someone say about his CAI. i do see that there has to be some modification to the shroud. but what is wrong with the sound?


That the reason why I'm giving him a hard time. It's a joke man. I was trying to get under his skin about common things that are said about "C"AI's that makes him respond. 


Poncho Dan said:


> Why can't it be CARB legal? You supply a PCV connection...


Jerry has to sale a million(seriously) of those things to line others peoples pockets to get it CARB certified. Its not that big of a deal swap it out with a stock airbox when it comes time to SMOG it.


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## dieseltweaker (Jun 2, 2009)

> svede1212 That's what's really sad about the VR. Besides it's other limitations you have to field engineer it to make it work like the "symbol of excellence" sticker says. They really made a shoddy product out of a fairly good idea. Mine's just a DIY project but i actually cared about it.



thats exactly how i feel about my POS intake. im actually thinking of making my own over the radiator system. i got all the stuff at the house anyways.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

I'll probably build another one at some point in the future once I lower the radiator or install a shorter one.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Why is there so much focus on a CAI? When it comes to modding it is probably the most insignificant mod to worry about unless you have a gang of other mods to compliment it. If your looking for results at the dragstrip get a set of drag radials. No CAI will give you better results.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

6QTS11OZ said:


> Why is there so much focus on a CAI? When it comes to modding it is probably the most insignificant mod to worry about unless you have a gang of other mods to compliment it. If your looking for results at the dragstrip get a set of drag radials. No CAI will give you better results.


Not so much in my case... my stock filter was dirty, and I said to myself there's no way in hell I'm paying $40+ for a replacement air filter, so I spent a little extra and improved the whole system. I'm on a limited/time release budget, so therefore I'm looking for the best product there is to support future mods. Like the stepped headers that are on the list.

Now yer gonna tell me I don't need a tune cuz I'm stock. :willy:


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Poncho Dan said:


> Not so much in my case... my stock filter was dirty, and I said to myself there's no way in hell I'm paying $40+ for a replacement air filter, so I spent a little extra and improved the whole system. I'm on a limited/time release budget, so therefore I'm looking for the best product there is to support future mods. Like the stepped headers that are on the list.
> 
> *Now yer gonna tell me I don't need a tune cuz I'm stock.* :willy:


 Come on bruh, I wouldn't do that.

If someone wanted to keep their car pretty much stock I would highly recommend a tune. At least it would thin out the fat stock tune and if it's an auto the trans setting can be tweak for a little more fun.


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## Poncho Dan (Jun 30, 2009)

After being tuned/tuning it myself, I'd suggest one to everyone. Acceleration is much smoother, and MPGs are up an average of 2. As for power, who knows... I didn't add any timing yet, so I'm still probably very close to stock power numbers.


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## Blue95gst (Oct 26, 2013)

Well i was very interested in the Vararam but after reading through this and checking out the Svede, looks like i will be ordering one! (Btw i just picked up my gto today lol)


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## bbejj123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Blue95gst said:


> Well i was very interested in the Vararam but after reading through this and checking out the Svede, looks like i will be ordering one! (Btw i just picked up my gto today lol)


You won't be disappointed. Really awakens your engine, the mid range power just wakes up. I can start spinning the tires in my m6 around 4k starting from idle and punching it while in gear.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## magpie5 (May 23, 2015)

Great thread!

I was just wondering about the Vararam in comparison to the X Air. I think I found my answer in this thread. Looks like the X Air is in my future.


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## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Just don't order anything from West Coast Speed. The Xair is a good product


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## magpie5 (May 23, 2015)

svede1212 said:


> Just don't order anything from West Coast Speed. The Xair is a good product


Thanks for the tip! :thumbsup:


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