# no start with starter, but push starts.



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I know it`s not a GTO, plz forgive me, but this thing is driving me crazzy! I have a `95 Camaro here with a 5.7L stick that will not start. It was backfiring after starting for a day, if you`d rev`d it slow it would seem to run
fine, but stab the throttle and it stumbled and backfired, but now it will not start at all with the starter. It has good spark on all plugs, seems to have weak to no injector pulse on all injectors while cranking, but will not fire, pop, or anything while cranking (even if you add fuel to through the intake). Here`s the really strange part, about 80% of the time when you release the key from crank to the 'on' position, the motor tries to run backwards!! It`ll crank the correct direction but will pop off and roll over real slow 2 or three times trying to run backwards after the key is let go from crank, if you release the clutch in gear while it`s doing it, it`ll move backwards in a forward gear. We`ve done a complete tune-up, cap rotor, wires, plugs, changed the optical eye in the distributor, changed the ignition module, changed the coded tumbler and key, removed the aftermarket security system (which didn`t appear to be tied into any ignition wires), replaced the opti, replace the jump cord between the opti and main harness, replaced the ignition switch, replaced the computer all with the same results. A diagnostic scan with the latest Snap-on SOLUS scan tool says nothing is wrong. Get behind the car with the 4-wheeler and shove it down the alley and pop the clutch it fires right up and runs fine. Trying the starter while it`s rolling down the alley and the same results as it sits still, pops off backwards when the key is let go from crank. When it did that I figured it was the load from the starter that was doing it, so I isolated the starter load from the rest of the car with another battery so the cars electrics didn`t know the starter was cranking, and the same thing, no start and tries to pop off backwards. It seems like a security thing but was told `95 doesn`t have the ability to change the timing and keep it from starting, but it sure seems to be. Any ideas and or responses would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## koman (Sep 25, 2006)

wish i could help you but i know jack crap on lt1s. good luck, if it doesn't ever get back right take it as a sign that you need an lsx motor instead


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## silver04G-T-OHHH (Aug 13, 2006)

the 95 does have the ability to make your car not start if the passkey system is effed up, if it doesn't read the proper resistance from the chip in your ignition key, it won't crank period, which is not your problem. Those LT1 distributors are notroriously junk, especially after a water pump replacement, get some water or coolant on em, and they are junk. The fact that it push starts okay is odd, have you tried a new starter? that's the only thing you eliminate with a push start, seems like a no-brainer.


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Rukee,

Sounds like you have jumped timing, check the alignment of the timing marks on the cam drive and crankshaft. Also check the teeth on the belt for wear or damage, and the belt tensioner adjustment.


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

You also can check battery voltage supply to ignition/ecm while cranking.When you push start you may have the correct voltage to these systems but when cranking you may have low voltage.Have you checked for corrossion at battery or at starter.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

speedwrenchx10 said:


> You also can check battery voltage supply to ignition/ecm while cranking.When you push start you may have the correct voltage to these systems but when cranking you may have low voltage.Have you checked for corrossion at battery or at starter.


Thinking the same thing, I added a second battery only wired to the starter, so the cars electrics doesn`t know the car is cranking with the second battery. By rights, it should be the same for the cars electrics as push starting, there is no load or voltage drop from the first battery if it`s cranked with the second. All the cars wires were removed from starter and just the second battery ran it. I thought it would have started, but it didn`t. All battery cables have been removed and cleaned, all ends, all ground points.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

05GTO said:


> Rukee,
> 
> Sounds like you have jumped timing, check the alignment of the timing marks on the cam drive and crankshaft. Also check the teeth on the belt for wear or damage, and the belt tensioner adjustment.


It wouldn`t run perfect (or seem to) when pushed if it was one tooth off....would it?


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## speedwrenchx10 (May 6, 2006)

Rukee said:


> It wouldn`t run perfect (or seem to) when pushed if it was one tooth off....would it?


You are right.I would thing if it runs ok after pushed that the engine is mechanically sound.The only was the engine is going to want to run backwards is if the cylinders are gettting spark after top dead center of compession stroke.To check timing chain you could pull pump and cap back off and move crank back and forth to check play.I would have to see wiring diagram or theory and operation in Mitchell manual to see what optispark uses for triggering inj/spark while crancking vs. while running such as est bybass.How did it run prior to all of this?Is it all stock?


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## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Rukee,

I am not an auto mechanic, I know a little about LS2 engines and the older pontiac engines because of the mods and rebuilds I've done to both. I don't know Jack about the 5.7 Chevy engine. The below info is my theory only;

If you have jumped timing by one tooth your engine will be running in a retard timing condition or firing just prior to TDC which may explain why the engine is attempting to run backwards. When trying to start with the starter the engine is not spinning fast enough to advance the timing. When the car is started by pushing off the engine possible spins 3 or 4 times faster than if the starter is being used thus advancing the timing just beyond the TDC mark. When you punch the accelerator for WOT the engine backfires and dies because there is no more timing advance.

If indeed you have jumped timing you can cause severe damage to the engine by running it. 

Good luck,


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Reluctantly I pulled the timing cover off, and although the chain is a bit sloppy, it`s dead on for the timing.


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## bondosGTO (Sep 5, 2007)

check the distributor, its gear might have jumped a tooth or wore down.

06, brazen, 6M, GM special event vechicle, not released till 4/07


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