# Scrap or good core?



## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I have finally gotten my LeMans back on the road after an engine failure 18 months ago. At the time I bagged all of the internal parts and wrapped the engine that came out and rolled it into the corner on a dolly. I saved everything to use as reference while I was doing the build and that idea worked out several times along the way. I am in the process of figuring out what is good and what is junk. The crank, cam and rods, along with all the other internals are junk. I will keep the hardware, manifold (was a Holly Street Dominator if anyone is interested in vintage speed parts), and some other miscellaneous things. I am not sure about the block. The rear main cap is cracked and the very bottom of cylinders 7 and 8 were hit by rods but there is no scoring of the walls and the block does not appear to be cracked. Do you guys think this would be worth sending out to be checked for cracks or would the machine work be too costly for this to be a viable core for a future build (or to sell to someone else)? To add to details; this was a 1974 block that was a cheep rebuild at some point in the past. The engine had the 8 eyelid pistons. I doubt is was bored but could check with a mic.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Keep the block. It can easily be sleeved IF needed. You can get another main cap and then have the mains align bored. Anyway, I am not only a Pontiac enthusiast, but a psychic. I see in your future a 4.5" stroker 480CI engine when the kids are grown and married -and hopefully out of the house. It'll have aftermarket steel maincaps and ARP main studs to replace the cast main caps. The lower section of the block/water jackets will be hard-blocked for rigidity. You will have to do some grinding on the lower cylinder walls to clearance the crank throws. Heads will be aluminum flowing 300 CFM's. Duals quads will sit on top of a Gutsram intake. High lift roller cam and lifters will make the beast breathe. 2" headers will replace the RA cast iron parts. The engine will push 600 HP and 675 TQ. You won't care that gas is $35.00 a gallon because the kids are out and gone and you have liquid cash to burn.

Just sayin'.


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## Jetzster (Jan 18, 2020)

Kids will actually leave the house?🤔


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Jetzster said:


> Kids will actually leave the house?🤔


Oh, my bad. Had a brain fart and was thinking pre-2000's.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Keep the block. It can easily be sleeved IF needed. You can get another main cap and then have the mains align bored. Anyway, I am not only a Pontiac enthusiast, but a psychic. I see in your future a 4.5" stroker 480CI engine when the kids are grown and married -and hopefully out of the house. It'll have aftermarket steel maincaps and ARP main studs to replace the cast main caps. The lower section of the block/water jackets will be hard-blocked for rigidity. You will have to do some grinding on the lower cylinder walls to clearance the crank throws. Heads will be aluminum flowing 300 CFM's. Duals quads will sit on top of a Gutsram intake. High lift roller cam and lifters will make the beast breathe. 2" headers will replace the RA cast iron parts. The engine will push 600 HP and 675 TQ. You won't care that gas is $35.00 a gallon because the kids are out and gone and you have liquid cash to burn.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Wow that does sound good... (no stop yourself you're saving for a paint job) oh ya right 🤔 but on a '74 block???


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jetzster said:


> Kids will actually leave the house?🤔


If you change your locks or pay for a wedding...I think the locks might be cheaper 👍 speaking of weddings our son is putting his off until mid '23 so maybe there's a chance I can sneak in the paint job next winter...keep working honey 😉


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Jared said:


> I have finally gotten my LeMans back on the road after an engine failure 18 months ago. At the time I bagged all of the internal parts and wrapped the engine that came out and rolled it into the corner on a dolly. I saved everything to use as reference while I was doing the build and that idea worked out several times along the way. I am in the process of figuring out what is good and what is junk. The crank, cam and rods, along with all the other internals are junk. I will keep the hardware, manifold (was a Holly Street Dominator if anyone is interested in vintage speed parts), and some other miscellaneous things. I am not sure about the block. The rear main cap is cracked and the very bottom of cylinders 7 and 8 were hit by rods but there is no scoring of the walls and the block does not appear to be cracked. Do you guys think this would be worth sending out to be checked for cracks or would the machine work be too costly for this to be a viable core for a future build (or to sell to someone else)? To add to details; this was a 1974 block that was a cheep rebuild at some point in the past. The engine had the 8 eyelid pistons. I doubt is was bored but could check with a mic.


So maybe I didn't see it or it wasn't posted but what happened to the motor or would you rather not relive that event.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I think PJ described his project to us. Engine that went in mine is a 461 with ported 6X heads from Nitemare. Currently running a very undersized carb (650 cfm) and the stock exhaust manifolds (supply issues on the RARE) and the cart screams.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> So maybe I didn't see it or it wasn't posted but what happened to the motor or would you rather not relive that event.


It was quite a while ago. Here is the original thread when this all started









Engine builder or machine shop in New England


Hey Folks, I did a search and it doesn't look like this has popped up on here before. Does anyone know of a machine shop or engine builder that specializes in Pontiac engines in the New England area? Right now I am information gathering. I need to pull my engine to see how bad it actually is...




www.gtoforum.com





As a brief overview of what I know and suspect.

Car had a pretty severe shifter rattle from right after I got it. Also had low oil pressure through an ancient aftermarket gauge. My bad judgment lead me to ignore these signs since there was no knocking from under the hood. Actually no noise at all and it had decent power for what appeared to be a fairly stock 1974 400 with 4X heads. It ran like this for 7 years. Fast forward to June 2020. It was a nice day and I had errands to run. Beauty of owning a LeMans with a very old paint job instead of a GTO that is concourse is I have never worried about leaving it in the parking lot at Target, Home Depot, etc. I pulled onto the first main road near my house, was going maybe 35 in 2nd gear (so say 2500 rpm or so) and there were a couple very loud bangs and the rear wheels locked up. Lucky for me no one was coming the other way because I ended up sideways in the middle of the road. I tried to start it up and the starter would not turn the engine over. I had it towed home which required me getting a ride since AAA was not allowing customers to ride with the tow driver. Driver thought my wife was my mother which embarrassed him and gave my wife and I a good laugh. I put a breaker bar on the front of the crank and could turn it over by hand. The starter would still not kick the engine over though. I checked the oil and there were metal chunks clinging to the dipstick. I pulled the engine and thought the block was toast when I saw that the crank was broken. Damage ended up being 1 broken main cap, the crank was in 5 pieces, the cam in three, one bent rod, and one that broke completely. The center two main bearings were worn almost all the way through. I suspect an oil pump failure but who knows.

The replacement is a 455 (actually 461) short block from Len Williams, ported 6X heads from Nitemare (stage II), a Comp 0.507/0.510 lift 284/296 duration camshaft, with Comp roller rockers. The short block has an Eagle crank and new rods. The assembly and install was done by me. It was my first build and I am pretty happy with how it turned out. I am still working on dialing in the tune and it needs a bigger carb. With winter coming, I needed to get this broken in and ready to store this year. The project took way longer than I expected due to long waits at the machine shop and parts availability. RARE manifolds have been on order since March.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Jared said:


> I think PJ described his project to us. Engine that went in mine is a 461 with ported 6X heads from Nitemare. Currently running a very undersized carb (650 cfm) and the stock exhaust manifolds (supply issues on the RARE) and the cart screams.



The engine should be very responsive and "touchy" with the 650CFM. If I were you, ring out the 650 a bit to see how it responds and at what RPM it goes flat. Then install your bigger carb and compare the data.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Wow that stinks but at least you got something much better out of that mishap, my car came with some average 1970 455 and I had so many other things to do on the car that a motor was down the road so I put lipstick on it and drove it. The first summer driving it in August I wanted to see what it had so took it down a lonely road shifting it at 4500, get to the stop sign and hear a rod knock 🤦‍♂️ Turns out with my new motor it wouldn't rev past 4500 because of the rev limiter on the new MSD, so I found out my factory tach was off so I probably over revved the first motor, so I babied the old motor all the next summer before I found my 461, but at least it wasn't as bad as yours...I got 2300.00 for that motor 👍


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I'm running an 850 Quick Fuel now, I've had to tune somewhat and it's a beast with an Performer rpm.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

PontiacJim said:


> The engine should be very responsive and "touchy" with the 650CFM. If I were you, ring out the 650 a bit to see how it responds and at what RPM it goes flat. Then install your bigger carb and compare the data.


It seems to perform pretty good to tell the truth. When I was setting the rings I did a good pull in second. As soon as the rear barrels opened it roasted the tires. My plan was to drive it as is for this year and swap out the carb in the spring.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Wow that stinks but at least you got something much better out of that mishap, my car came with some average 1970 455 and I had so many other things to do on the car that a motor was down the road so I put lipstick on it and drove it. The first summer driving it in August I wanted to see what it had so took it down a lonely road shifting it at 4500, get to the stop sign and hear a rod knock 🤦‍♂️ Turns out with my new motor it wouldn't rev past 4500 because of the rev limiter on the new MSD, so I found out my factory tach was off so I probably over revved the first motor, so I babied the old motor all the next summer before I found my 461, but at least it wasn't as bad as yours...I got 2300.00 for that motor 👍


I was honestly not that upset when it happened. It also gave me a great story to tell. I expect adversity in my life and I take it as it comes. My situation is made easier by having a very supportive wife who basically never tells me no no matter how stupid the idea is. When the engine blew up and I threw out the idea of building what I did, she thought it was a great idea. I half expected the new one to blow up immediately because of something I did wrong. The fact that it runs, and runs good is a bonus to me.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I too am very fortunate to have a very supportive wife, she's the one who told me to buy the car and then when the motor went I was afraid to tell her but she said just take me to the beach once or twice a year and you can do anything you want to the car, she even likes going to the shows 👍 But I do notice alot more shoes showing up and oh ya I got her the dream car she's always wanted a 2014 purple Challenger. Now I want to try and get a paint job next winter....we leave for the beach tomorrow for real..happy wife happy life 😀


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> I too am very fortunate to have a very supportive wife, she's the one who told me to buy the car and then when the motor went I was afraid to tell her but she said just take me to the beach once or twice a year and you can do anything you want to the car, she even likes going to the shows 👍 But I do notice alot more shoes showing up and oh ya I got her the dream car she's always wanted a 2014 purple Challenger. Now I want to try and get a paint job next winter....we leave for the beach tomorrow for real..happy wife happy life 😀


Very true my friend. I am taking a baking class with my better half in a couple weeks. We always try and do some activity for our anniversary and that was the idea for this year. We actually make a good team because we both support the others needs and wants along with a good amount of the stupid. I look at it and say if you can be married for over 20 years, be most of the way through raising 3 kids (youngest is 15) and still like each other, life is good. Funny thing is one of my favorite things about owning an old car is going out for ice cream. I know, this is really odd but one of the pushes to get the LeMans on the road was to get in an ice cream run before all the small shops close here for the year. When I got the car running and performed the first heat cycle for the cam break in the wife's first question was if we were going for ice cream that afternoon. I think that run may be later today.

Have fun at the beach and make sure to give her an extra hug for being awesome!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Ha ha that's funny you say that because she always wants the go for ice cream, any excuse to drive the car so I say let's go, I'm ticked we didn't get to go yesterday because it was so nice and it's getting colder here but to much to do getting ready for the trip. We're going on 33 years, thanks I will 👍


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## Droach6498 (Nov 1, 2020)

Jared said:


> I have finally gotten my LeMans back on the road after an engine failure 18 months ago. At the time I bagged all of the internal parts and wrapped the engine that came out and rolled it into the corner on a dolly. I saved everything to use as reference while I was doing the build and that idea worked out several times along the way. I am in the process of figuring out what is good and what is junk. The crank, cam and rods, along with all the other internals are junk. I will keep the hardware, manifold (was a Holly Street Dominator if anyone is interested in vintage speed parts), and some other miscellaneous things. I am not sure about the block. The rear main cap is cracked and the very bottom of cylinders 7 and 8 were hit by rods but there is no scoring of the walls and the block does not appear to be cracked. Do you guys think this would be worth sending out to be checked for cracks or would the machine work be too costly for this to be a viable core for a future build (or to sell to someone else)? To add to details; this was a 1974 block that was a cheep rebuild at some point in the past. The engine had the 8 eyelid pistons. I doubt is was bored but could check with a mic.


I just had my 400 tested decked and bored for $340 in SF bay area which here everything is over priced. I wouldnt think a sonic test would be much. One thing they found I didnt notice was one of the cylinders is lined. Just shows you the pros know what to look for. It was really hard to see. I would have it decked too.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Droach6498 said:


> I just had my 400 tested decked and bored for $340 in SF bay area which here everything is over priced. I wouldnt think a sonic test would be much. One thing they found I didnt notice was one of the cylinders is lined. Just shows you the pros know what to look for. It was really hard to see. I would have it decked too.


I live in MA. Prices here are not as bad as CA but probably a close second. I'm going to store the old block in case I ever need it or if I find someone else who needs it. The nicks are way at the bottom of the bores so it may be OK for a stock rebuild as is but probably not for a stroker.


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