# New rebuild performance questions



## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Hey all, I finally took my car out today for a road test to see how my engine I put together would perform. I had a low power 557 cast 400 in the car for the last 12 years and it was a dog. I found a 71 400 and rebuilt it using the original crank, rods, and rockers. I put a comp cams xe268 Lift .477"/.480" Duration 268/280 RPM Range 1600-5800. #16 heads (rebuilt from machine shop) from the original engine that was toast and Dish Top (-17cc) with an estimated CR of 9.5-9.6 :1 with 72cc Heads. I topped it all off with a edelbrock dual plane performer Intake and holley 750 dual feed. The car performs better than the old engine but not much better. I resolved all my vacuum leaks and have my timing dialed in at 12⁰ initial and all in at 36⁰ at 3000 I believe anyway. Not sure if anyone can make a guess at what my hp/torque number are from what I provided but I expected a little more from this engine. The only thing I can think of is my rear might be limiting me... it's stamped for a 3.36 but i don't believe that is what is currently in it since it doesn't have the outta the gate performance my friends gto has. I appreciate any help anyone can provide on what I should do or did I build a subpar engine.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Since my engine us is pulling about 11" of vacuum should I put a different size power valve in the carb. It didn't seem to sing like other carbs do at WOT.


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Hopefully some other will chime in here.. To me, your vacuum signal seems a bit on the low side. Comp cams has a dyno result ( on a chevy 350) with similar ( A 1/4 point lower) compression ratio showing 15.5" of vacuum. Sure you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Car should be a screamer. 12-15 years ago built the same engine for a friend with the same cam, except it was on a 389 platform with the 92 closed chamber heads. Totally a budget build. Car was a screamer with a 4 speed and a 3.36 gear, and still is. He is also running a Holley 750. You may want to invest the money in getting your car dyno-tuned. 
With the low vacuum issues you are having, my gut tells me your cam timing is retarded. Are you SURE you installed the camshaft correctly and that the valve timing events are where they need to be? As I said, your engine should be a screamer, and should have more vacuum at idle...at least 2-3".
.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jim K said:


> Hopefully some other will chime in here.. To me, your vacuum signal seems a bit on the low side. Comp cams has a dyno result ( on a chevy 350) with similar ( A 1/4 point lower) compression ratio showing 15.5" of vacuum. Sure you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere?


I don't think I have a leak anymore. A previous thread we kinda ruled that the low vacuum might be caused from the duration on the cam. I blew some smoke into the intake and it only cam out of the carb.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Who installed your cam and who verified it was installed correctly and not off a tooth or more? Did the engine get turned over 2 or more times after the install to verify it was set up properly?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

As a side note, intake vacuum leaks will not make the engine a turd on performance under way. It'll just tend to give the car poor idle characteristics and drivability at low speeds. At wide open throttle, not much of an issue. Something else is wrong here, and I suspect it's mis-matched or out of phase parts. (valve timing)


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Double check your throttle cable installation at the bracket and make sure you are getting all the throttle you can. Have someone sit inside and put the pedal down, while you see if it will go any farther at the carb. Crazy but, been there done that,,,right after my rebuild.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Car should be a screamer. 12-15 years ago built the same engine for a friend with the same cam, except it was on a 389 platform with the 92 closed chamber heads. Totally a budget build. Car was a screamer with a 4 speed and a 3.36 gear, and still is. He is also running a Holley 750. You may want to invest the money in getting your car dyno-tuned.
> With the low vacuum issues you are having, my gut tells me your cam timing is retarded. Are you SURE you installed the camshaft correctly and that the valve timing events are where they need to be? As I said, your engine should be a screamer, and should have more vacuum at idle...at least 2-3".
> .


That gives me hope. I'll have to check my book on how I installed the cam, it was a while ago. The motor is going to have to be pulled to address the nasty rear main leak. I was going to try to adjust my valves with the car running but if that doesn't work I assume the cam will have to be adjusted with the engine out?


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> Double check your throttle cable installation at the bracket and make sure you are getting all the throttle you can. Have someone sit inside and put the pedal down, while you see if it will go any farther at the carb. Crazy but, been there done that,,,right after my rebuild.


There is a tiny bit of travel less than 1/4". That was the first thing I did when I parked it. Forgot to mention that.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> As a side note, intake vacuum leaks will not make the engine a turd on performance under way. It'll just tend to give the car poor idle characteristics and drivability at low speeds. At wide open throttle, not much of an issue. Something else is wrong here, and I suspect it's mis-matched or out of phase parts. (valve timing)


I'm going to have someone help me adjust the valves this week hopefully. I have one arm in a sling currently, I can't reach into the engine bay with both arms currently.


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## chrisn (2 mo ago)

yes i agree with geetoguy either its a vaccuum leak or the cams retared , do to have a squarebore holley on a spreadbore manifold will cause a vac leak at the secondarys


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I'm going to have someone help me adjust the valves this week hopefully. I have one arm in a sling currently, I can't reach into the engine bay with both arms currently.


Might be a good idea. Wow did you originally set them?


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Who installed your cam and who verified it was installed correctly and not off a tooth or more? Did the engine get turned over 2 or more times after the install to verify it was set up properly?


I put everything together using YouTube and a rocky Rotella book.


RMTZ67 said:


> Might be a good idea. Wow did you originally set them?


I originally set them with the engine on the stand. It didn't grenade during breakin so I was kind of impressed honestly.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

No need to pull engine for the cam timing. Just the timing cover. Very simple job. Here is what I recommend at this point, since your rear main is pouring and you are going to need to pull the engine to address it. 1. Stop. Let your arm heal properly. 2. When healed, pull engine. Adress the rear main, and with the pan off and the timing cover off with the engine on a hoist or on a stand, verify or have someone who can verify cam timing and valve lift. I have seen MANY mis-installed timing sets over the years, usually retarded, resulting in crappy sluggish performance. The vacuum is the clue here. And why I suspect valve timing. 
Be patient, and put screwing around with the valves on hold for now. You're chasing your tail.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

chrisn said:


> yes i agree with geetoguy either its a vaccuum leak or the cams retared , do to have a squarebore holley on a spreadbore manifold will cause a vac leak at the secondarys


That might be an issue. Is this a spread bore and my holley is square.


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## Jim K (Nov 17, 2020)

Yeah.. that's definitely a spread-bore intake set up for a Rochester. I have heard of guys running square bore carbs on these before, but that doesn't make sense to me.. For about 20$ or so, you can get a square to spread adapter or change back over to a Rochester carb.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Couple of points without getting into things too far. Your cam has 224/230 degrees duration at .050". Those 268/280 advertised duration numbers don't help us much. I like to think that a 230/236 @ .050" is a nice healthy medium sized cam so you are one click down from that. I would expect at least 14 inches of vacuum with your cam.

You have an Edelbrock Performer manifold and can be used with either a square bore or spread bore carb. There is a possibility of the carb not sealing up properly if you don't use the steel adapter plate Edelbrock sells. Sometimes you get away with the squarebore carb sealing up and sometimes you don't - depends on the carb. If you didn't get a plate they are available from Edelbrock or Summit: Adapter plate


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jim K said:


> Yeah.. that's definitely a spread-bore intake set up for a Rochester. I have heard of guys running square bore carbs on these before, but that doesn't make sense to me.. For about 20$ or so, you can get a square to spread adapter or change back over to a Rochester carb.


I believe I have a spacer and a quad somewhere in my garage.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

lust4speed said:


> Couple of points without getting into things too far. Your cam has 224/230 degrees duration at .050". Those 268/280 advertised duration numbers don't help us much. I like to think that a 230/236 @ .050" is a nice healthy medium sized cam so you are one click down from that. I would expect at least 14 inches of vacuum with your cam.
> 
> You have an Edelbrock Performer manifold and can be used with either a square bore or spread bore carb. There is a possibility of the carb not sealing up properly if you don't use the steel adapter plate Edelbrock sells. Sometimes you get away with the squarebore carb sealing up and sometimes you don't - depends on the carb. If you didn't get a plate they are available from Edelbrock or Summit: Adapter plate


I definitely have one of those laying around somewhere. I think I was so fired up to turn the engine over for the first time I slapped the carb on and that went right over my head. I'll get this thing ripping my spring with everyone's help. I appreciate everyone here!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

My mild 67 with 3.36's is a blast. but it took a while to get it there.

I have the same manifold automatically need d have had three square bores on it. Yes, Edelbrock has an adapter, but you don't automatically need it... you _might_.

Valve adjustment is HUGE and it would definitely account for the bad vacuum.

Also, what dizzy do you have? You may need more base timing for that cam... but wihout the right vacuum, you'd be chasing your tail. Get the valves settled first.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

If you have to buy a spacer the phelonic ones keep the heat away from carb better than the aluminum ones, I have a 1/2" open phelonic one on my Eddie performing rpm but the four hole ones are supposed to be better for low end.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> My mild 67 with 3.36's is a blast. but it took a while to get it there.
> 
> I have the same manifold automatically need d have had three square bores on it. Yes, Edelbrock has an adapter, but you don't automatically need it... you _might_.
> 
> ...


I have an HEI dizzy, I'm not sure what brand but I just replaced the cap and rotor with an MSD due to not having the cap seated and the rotor got pretty chewed up. I can add the plate, add some timing, and have someone adjust the valves before any of the in depth stuff. I'll did whatever the rocky rotella book said about cam instal but it's definitely possible I did something wrong. This was my first engine rebuild.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I have an HEI dizzy, I'm not sure what brand but I just replaced the cap and rotor with an MSD due to not having the cap seated and the rotor got pretty chewed up. I can add the plate, add some timing, and have someone adjust the valves before any of the in depth stuff. I'll did whatever the rocky rotella book said about cam instal but it's definitely possible I did something wrong. This was my first engine rebuild.


Lining up the dots isn't rocket science. I hadn't rebuilt an engine in 40 years when I did mine, Rockys book and help from the guys here, it came out fine. I had some issues that shook my confidence as well. But everything was a simple fix, and all is well. Look for simple issue first then move on, look over all vacuum connections, spark plugs (color), double check your firing order, If you know your timing# you can move it a bit and test it..you can always put it back. when your confident there....I am with Army, look over your rockers/pushrods and make sure they are all lifting while running, squirting oil etc. If so an adjustment isn't going to hurt a thing, just eliminate a few possibilities.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> Lining up the dots isn't rocket science. I hadn't rebuilt an engine in 40 years when I did mine, Rockys book and help from the guys here, it came out fine. I had some issues that shook my confidence as well. But everything was a simple fix, and all is well. Look for simple issue first then move on, look over all vacuum connections, spark plugs (color), double check your firing order, If you know your timing# you can move it a bit and test it..you can always put it back. when your confident there....I am with Army, look over your rockers/pushrods and make sure they are all lifting while running, squirting oil etc. If so an adjustment isn't going to hurt a thing, just eliminate a few possibilities.


It's hard to tell in the pic if the dots are lined up but I recall using a level or ruler to ensure they were right on.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Goat noob said:


> Hey all, I finally took my car out today for a road test to see how my engine I put together would perform. I had a low power 557 cast 400 in the car for the last 12 years and it was a dog. I found a 71 400 and rebuilt it using the original crank, rods, and rockers. I put a comp cams xe268 Lift .477"/.480" Duration 268/280 RPM Range 1600-5800. #16 heads (rebuilt from machine shop) from the original engine that was toast and Dish Top (-17cc) with an estimated CR of 9.5-9.6 :1 with 72cc Heads. I topped it all off with a edelbrock dual plane performer Intake and holley 750 dual feed. The car performs better than the old engine but not much better. I resolved all my vacuum leaks and have my timing dialed in at 12⁰ initial and all in at 36⁰ at 3000 I believe anyway. Not sure if anyone can make a guess at what my hp/torque number are from what I provided but I expected a little more from this engine. The only thing I can think of is my rear might be limiting me... it's stamped for a 3.36 but i don't believe that is what is currently in it since it doesn't have the outta the gate performance my friends gto has. I appreciate any help anyone can provide on what I should do or did I build a subpar engine.


I used the Wallace Compression calculator and came up with 8.9 compression.

The Performer has small intake runners and may be choking the engine. The Performer RPM has larger runners, but the stock cast iron Q-jet intake would be best. The Performer accepts both spreadbore and squarebore according to Edelbrock. Make sure you use the correct carb gasket or you could have a vacuum leak between the carb and intake.

The 750 is a vacuum secondary carb and not a double pumper? 

The cam should work well with the lower compression and pull hard at low/mid RPM's. A 2,000 RPM stall is recommended with that cam. Depending on what transmission you have and what it came out of, the torque converters can be different sizes which give different stall speeds.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> I used the Wallace Compression calculator and came up with 8.9 compression.
> 
> The Performer has small intake runners and may be choking the engine. The Performer RPM has larger runners, but the stock cast iron Q-jet intake would be best. The Performer accepts both spreadbore and squarebore according to Edelbrock. Make sure you use the correct carb gasket or you could have a vacuum leak between the carb and intake.
> 
> ...


That's good to know about the compression, I can save a few $$ at the pump. Maybe I can track one down and go back to Q-jet. I'll put a new gasket on once I find the adapter. The carb is a vacuum secondary double pumper. That's a bummer about the stall, when I was sourcing my parts through butler I asked them for the biggest cam I can install without getting Into a stall convertor. I have a TH400 and I'm not sure if it is the original. I have the bill of sale that it came with the th400 but not sure if it's the same one.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I found an intake on Market place that is right down the street off a 67 gto and I also have a torker II manifold that I took off the 557 engine that is just laying on my garage floor. I only bought the Performer dual plane because I was looking for something to compliment a low end torque street engine build, I guess I should have done more research on intakes first. If I pickup the intake off the 67 can I only put a qjet on it? My qjet is off my 79 trans am and I'm just wondering if that jqet is going to be a good fit for my 71 build. I know performance drastically changed from the early 70's to late 70's in production vehicles. Thoughts on what direction I should go on intakes/qjet?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> I have an HEI dizzy, I'm not sure what brand but I just replaced the cap and rotor with an MSD due to not having the cap seated and the rotor got pretty chewed up. I can add the plate, add some timing, and have someone adjust the valves before any of the in depth stuff. I'll did whatever the rocky rotella book said about cam instal but it's definitely possible I did something wrong. This was my first engine rebuild.


The number one thing that I see gets screwed up is the valve adjustment. If you did it while the engine was off it's very difficult to get right.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

I spent an entire year chasing my tail with my car because I didn't have the valves right, and at that point I had already been adjusting valves for 30 years!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> I found an intake on Market place that is right down the street off a 67 gto and I also have a torker II manifold that I took off the 557 engine that is just laying on my garage floor. I only bought the Performer dual plane because I was looking for something to compliment a low end torque street engine build, I guess I should have done more research on intakes first. If I pickup the intake off the 67 can I only put a qjet on it? My qjet is off my 79 trans am and I'm just wondering if that jqet is going to be a good fit for my 71 build. I know performance drastically changed from the early 70's to late 70's in production vehicles. Thoughts on what direction I should go on intakes/qjet?


The stock 67 intake was awesome, but I certainly wouldn't go spending money on it if you already had 2 edelbrocks. Not unless the iron intake was super cheap. Yes it will perform great, but not that much better than the Edelbrock stuff


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Goat noob said:


> I found an intake on Market place that is right down the street off a 67 gto and I also have a torker II manifold that I took off the 557 engine that is just laying on my garage floor. I only bought the Performer dual plane because I was looking for something to compliment a low end torque street engine build, I guess I should have done more research on intakes first. If I pickup the intake off the 67 can I only put a qjet on it? My qjet is off my 79 trans am and I'm just wondering if that jqet is going to be a good fit for my 71 build. I know performance drastically changed from the early 70's to late 70's in production vehicles. Thoughts on what direction I should go on intakes/qjet?


This has been talked about before, and I don't remember exactly what you have inside your engine so forgive me in advance if this doesn't apply to you.

If you have the stock style Pontiac bottleneck rocker studs, with the accompanying rockers, rocker balls, nuts, etc. --- they are NOT adjustable. Torque the nuts all the way down onto the shoulder of the bottleneck to 20lb.ft. and you're done. If you try any other method with the factory parts, the nuts will back off and "hilarity will ensue". That's with all factory parts.

Converting to an adjustable system requires at the very least, using PolyLock style rocker nuts - the ones with the hex socket set screw in the center - so that they can be locked into position without having to be tightened down onto the bottleneck shoulders.

9 times out of 10 though, if anything in the valve train has been changed, such as a different cam with a different base circle diameter, different valve stem lengths, different rockers, etc. then to get things right is going to require different length pushrods and polylocks. Once you've started down that road, it can snowball on you. A "bigger" cam that needs more spring pressure to keep things under control puts more stress on the rocker studs, and the factory studs have on occasion been known to break at the bottleneck point. If you want a fully adjustable valve train, even if you haven't changed parts that require these changes, it's best to swap those out for larger, non-bottleneck studs that are 7/16" all the way up and use polylocks to fit them.

My 0.02 - keep the change - YMMV, void where prohibited by law, past market performance is not a guarantee of future return, slippery when wet.

Bear


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> The stock 67 intake was awesome, but I certainly wouldn't go spending money on it if you already had 2 edelbrocks. Not unless the iron intake was super cheap. Yes it will perform great, but not that much better than the Edelbrock stuff


He has it listed for $100 obo. The Edelbrock wasn't exactly cheap and I'd gladly sell it and make some of my money back if there isn't a ton of performance difference between the 2 intakes.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

BearGFR said:


> This has been talked about before, and I don't remember exactly what you have inside your engine so forgive me in advance if this doesn't apply to you.
> 
> If you have the stock style Pontiac bottleneck rocker studs, with the accompanying rockers, rocker balls, nuts, etc. --- they are NOT adjustable. Torque the nuts all the way down onto the shoulder of the bottleneck to 20lb.ft. and you're done. If you try any other method with the factory parts, the nuts will back off and "hilarity will ensue". That's with all factory parts.
> 
> ...


I already had a rocker come pretty loose so I'm already pretty weary on the valvetrain. I do have poly locks. I mocked up what parts I have from left over parts from this Frankenstein build. I used my old pushrods and rockers. The parts that were installed were cleaned and inspected by my machine shop. So should i lookinto measuring pushrood length and getting longer bottleneck studs?


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Again, the elephant in the room is the very, very low engine vacuum. An engine is an air pump. It needs to be efficient. We need to find the source of the low vacuum. Can you post a video of it running at idle and then you goose the throttle? I have an UNCANNY ability to detect retarded valvetrains with my ear, not kidding. Have you done a static compression test on this engine? You should be no lower than 170 PSI in every cylinder with your cam and combo, if I have it figured correctly.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Again, the elephant in the room is the very, very low engine vacuum. An engine is an air pump. It needs to be efficient. We need to find the source of the low vacuum. Can you post a video of it running at idle and then you goose the throttle? I have an UNCANNY ability to detect retarded valvetrains with my ear, not kidding. Have you done a static compression test on this engine? You should be no lower than 170 PSI in every cylinder with your cam and combo, if I have it figured correctly.


I only compression tested cylinder 1 when I was playing around with TDC last week. I can get a reading on the rest. I think it was around 180psi. Here is it running in my garage. Let me know if you can hear anything. It was also a cold start. Let me know if the link below works. 










Quick Share


1 file (133.8 MB)




linksharing.samsungcloud.com


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

0 new items by Pat doyne







photos.app.goo.gl


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

One link does not exist and I can't access the second one. I am not on facebook or social media.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

_








New video by Pat doyne







photos.app.goo.gl




_


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Quick Share


1 file (12.7 MB)




linksharing.samsungcloud.com


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

If the posts above didn't work I was able to look at the qr code below with my work phone camera and it opened up the video.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Quick Share

This should work according to the FAQ.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> That's good to know about the compression, I can save a few $$ at the pump. Maybe I can track one down and go back to Q-jet. I'll put a new gasket on once I find the adapter. The carb is a vacuum secondary double pumper. That's a bummer about the stall, when I was sourcing my parts through butler I asked them for the biggest cam I can install without getting Into a stall convertor. I have a TH400 and I'm not sure if it is the original. I have the bill of sale that it came with the th400 but not sure if it's the same one.


The carb would be a vacuum secondary OR a double pumper not both, double pumper has two accelerator pumps, the vac secondary carb has a pod on the passenger rear of the carb. I had a 750 Holley vac secondary and it was fine so you shouldn't need a new carb just tune this one, also the performer intake should be ok too if you're not running high horse power if so get a Performer RPM that's what I have on my 461. Lust 4speed talked about the torker manifold being ok too as these Pontiacs have enough low end torque but they're advertised with a higher low range so I shied away from it, Jared has one too. So maybe you just need a phenolic adapter if the carb flange doesn't match the intake and use what you have because it doesn't sound like a new/old carb from a TA and a different intake are going to solve your problems. Save your money and figure out the vacuum leak if there is one and any valve train/timing problems. ALSO put on a second throttle return spring, you should always have two incase one breaks...you'll have more problems than this that's for sure if you stick the throttle wide open while driving.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Goat noob said:


> Quick Share
> 
> This should work according to the FAQ.


Not for me. I have a flip phone that doesn't read Q-codes. I know, I'm a fossil.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Not for me. I have a flip phone that doesn't read Q-codes. I know, I'm a fossil.


Well I'm 34 and can't figure out how to upload a video to a forum. I think my generation would shun me for that haha.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> The carb would be a vacuum secondary OR a double pumper not both, double pumper has two accelerator pumps, the vac secondary carb has a pod on the passenger rear of the carb. I had a 750 Holley vac secondary and it was fine so you shouldn't need a new carb just tune this one, also the performer intake should be ok too if you're not running high horse power if so get a Performer RPM that's what I have on my 461. Lust 4speed talked about the torker manifold being ok too as these Pontiacs have enough low end torque but they're advertised with a higher low range so I shied away from it, Jared has one too. So maybe you just need a phenolic adapter if the carb flange doesn't match the intake and use what you have because it doesn't sound like a new/old carb from a TA and a different intake are going to solve your problems. Save your money and figure out the vacuum leak if there is one and any valve train/timing problems. ALSO put on a second throttle return spring, you should always have two incase one breaks...you'll have more problems than this that's for sure if you stick the throttle wide open while driving.


I read dual inlet and assumed double pumper. It's a fine carb. I'm only experienced with holley carbs so far. Ill try to detect leaks around the carb when i have a second set or arms here.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> Well I'm 34 and can't figure out how to upload a video to a forum. I think my generation would shun me for that haha.


I know the feeling it drove me nuts until I figured it out, have to load them to Youtube then share the link.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> I read dual inlet and assumed double pumper. It's a fine carb. I'm only experienced with holley carbs so far. Ill try to detect leaks around the carb when i have a second set or arms here.
> View attachment 159283


Ok vacuum secondary and easy to work on, that should work just fine unless something is really wrong with it...no need for a different carb IMO that's not your problem.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> I know the feeling it drove me nuts until I figured it out, have to load them to Youtube then share the link.


I'm going to put the adapter plate and replace my carb gaskets tomorrow and upload a video from YouTube with it running.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

I wouldn't do to many changes at once. I could see the video, valvetrain seemed a little noisy but I could be wrong. I can't see you carb keeping you from Running strong, running right maybe but I could be wrong. Maybe that's why Lars says leave the carb tuning for last.
Hope it's not the case but, on my 74Z after I broke it in I could not get no power out of it. I tried everything I could think except the valves, to no avail. Took to a shop to look it over and he double checked everything as well and mentioned adjusting the valves. When he began the adjustments he saw my cam was gone. I would like to see you start there and eliminate that from the table, then everything else is cake.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Again, and this is the third and last time I'll say it: the low vacuum is a red flag and needs to be investigated. Before anything else. I repaired and was involved with auto repair on a forensic level for decades. My ASE Master's expire in 2024.....I've been certified since 1983. There is a mechanical issue here causing lower than normal vacuum and no amount of fooling around with tuning is likely to fix that, unless you have valves not closing all the way. If that were the case, you'd have misfire, and the vacuum gauge would be fluttering. Steady low vacuum means retarded valve timing most of the time. As RMTZ said, never change more than one thing at a time, either.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Goat noob said:


> 0 new items by Pat doyne
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may not want to go lower on the gas octane. The Comp Cam's 110 LSA will build cylinder pressure at the lower RPM's, so just like having higher compression and why they work best with lower compression engines.

I can hear the video. What I don't like is that there is a hesitation when you first crack the carb open, then you blip the throttle to pick up speed. Could be a carb adjustment like larger "squirters" to add more fuel to balance out the air/fuel ratio if when you crack the carb open it gets too much air and not enough gas - you get a hesitation.

Do as you feel on the intake. It would not hurt to get the '67 Q-jet intake if you can pick it up for $75.00. It is a 1 year only intake, so I don't think it would be a loss if you sold it later.

You can use a spacer, but not sure if that will do anything for you. Get a gasket that matches the carb base and intake so you know the gasket will seal. You can pull your gasket and you should see the outline imprint on the intake/carb and that should tell you how it is working.

First thing for me would be to use all polylocks and adjust the valves, one side at a time, while running. This should zero lash all lifters and then that takes that out of the equation.

Is the engine vacuum you show steady or does the needle bounce around? The vacuum gauge/needle can help with diagnosing. Plug all vacuum ports/lines and see if the vacuum changes. If it does, then you have a leak and connect each line back up 1 at a time until the vacuum drops and that may locate a bad vacuum leak. If no change after plugging all vacuum ports on the carb, then it is not a hose or brake booster leak if you have power brakes.

You Initial timing is set a 12 TDC @ 750 RPM and this is with vacuum line to vacuum advance disconnected. Does that jump up to 19-22 degrees once you re-connect the vacuum advance at idle?

If that seems OK, then using your vacuum gauge adjust the idle mixture screws in the front of the carb to get your highest vacuum reading. Do 1 side at a time.

Re-torque the intake bolts. They could have loosened up and created a vacuum leak.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

PontiacJim said:


> You may not want to go lower on the gas octane. The Comp Cam's 110 LSA will build cylinder pressure at the lower RPM's, so just like having higher compression and why they work best with lower compression engines.
> 
> I can hear the video. What I don't like is that there is a hesitation when you first crack the carb open, then you blip the throttle to pick up speed. Could be a carb adjustment like larger "squirters" to add more fuel to balance out the air/fuel ratio if when you crack the carb open it gets too much air and not enough gas - you get a hesitation.
> 
> ...


I don't have a great pump shot when I hit the gas quick. I played with the accelerator pump, upped the squirt nozzle, and changed position of the pump cam and it did not get better or worse. When I hook up my vacuum gauge my vacuum doesn't change. I turn my screws all the way in and back out 2 full revolutions (I believe holley says 1.5 turns but it doesn't like to start that lean) the vacuum gauge is steady at 11". I'll adjust the valves with it running this week and see if that helps my vacuum and investigate any other leaks. I feel pretty good about leaks, I blew a ton of smoke from my friends vape into the intake and it only came out of the top of the carb.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Goat noob said:


> Well I'm 34 and can't figure out how to upload a video to a forum. I think my generation would shun me for that haha.


Upload it to youtube and copy the link to the video. I'm not tech savvy either and was easily able to post video on here doing so.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

RMTZ67 said:


> I wouldn't do to many changes at once. I could see the video, valvetrain seemed a little noisy but I could be wrong. I can't see you carb keeping you from Running strong, running right maybe but I could be wrong. Maybe that's why Lars says leave the carb tuning for last.
> Hope it's not the case but, on my 74Z after I broke it in I could not get no power out of it. I tried everything I could think except the valves, to no avail. Took to a shop to look it over and he double checked everything as well and mentioned adjusting the valves. When he began the adjustments he saw my cam was gone. I would like to see you start there and eliminate that from the table, then everything else is cake.


I was thinking this as well but didn't want to be the one to say it. I'm hoping this is not the case, but an issue with cam timing like @geeteeohguy said. When I installed the cam and timing set on mine I rotated the engine several times over and double checked that the dots were both straight up and then met in the middle when the cam gear mark was at the 6 o'clock position and continued to do so as I rotated the engine. Being off one tooth could cause most of these issues.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I was very careful about breaking in the cam. I used comp cams break in oil and ran the car between 2000 and 2500rpms for 30 min and didn't stay at the same rpm for too long. Is it possible that the cam could be wiped out from not degreeing it properly or not having the valves adjusted correctly. I really enjoyed putting the engine together. This engine would be back on the stand if my arm wasn't shot for the next few months.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

A cam going flat will raise the observed pressure obtained in a compression test and increase vacuum since the cam duration and lift are decreasing and it is acting like a smaller cam. There is enough noise in the valvetrain that it sounds like they are adjusted too loose or possibly the cam is going south. But you have low vacuum, so you might have some valves adjusted too tight. Or option three, a few too loose and a few too tight.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I was very careful about breaking in the cam. I used comp cams break in oil and ran the car between 2000 and 2500rpms for 30 min and didn't stay at the same rpm for too long. Is it possible that the cam could be wiped out from not degreeing it properly or not having the valves adjusted correctly. I really enjoyed putting the engine together. This engine would be back on the stand if my arm wasn't shot for the next few months.


I wouldn't be thinking anything crazy just yet, and your dots on your timing chain look legit to me. No offense but, want to be sure you will be adjusting your valves correctly. And mostly interested to know everything under the valve covers are functioning correctly and look in good order.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

lust4speed said:


> A cam going flat will raise the observed pressure obtained in a compression test and increase vacuum since the cam duration and lift are decreasing and it is acting like a smaller cam. There is enough noise in the valvetrain that it sounds like they are adjusted too loose or possibly the cam is going south. But you have low vacuum, so you might have some valves adjusted too tight. Or option three, a few too loose and a few too tight.


Fingers crossed that it's just poorly adjusted valves. My dad is 72 and knows his way around Pontiacs, he had a 68 gto when he got out of the service and that is what sparked my interest in finding my own gto. I'll put him to work this week and report back my findings.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> I wouldn't be thinking anything crazy just yet, and your dots on your timing chain look legit to me. No offense but, want to be sure you will be adjusting your valves correctly. And mostly interested to know everything under the valve covers are functioning correctly and look in good order.


I'll take a video while adjusting the valves this week. No offense taken, this is my first build and I'm happy I made it this far and that the car saw the road twice.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> Fingers crossed that it's just poorly adjusted valves. My dad is 72 and knows his way around Pontiacs, he had a 68 gto when he got out of the service and that is what sparked my interest in finding my own gto. I'll put him to work this week and report back my findings.


I give you props for taking on the build yourself. I like you dove in headfirst thinking; I can screw this engine up three times and still come out cheaper than someone else doing it....and them doing it doesn't always come out right.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Goat noob said:


> I'll take a video while adjusting the valves this week. No offense taken, this is my first build and I'm happy I made it this far and that the car saw the road twice.


You get all the kudos from me. Sounds like your skill level is similar than mine and you took on this scope of project anyway. I remember it taking me a few days to gear myself up to actually turning the key on mine because I was convinced it was going to run for maybe 3 seconds and then go boom. Then when I finally decided to start it to do the cam break in, it wouldn't start because I had my wires 180 degrees off. I've been watching your progress close and am personally pulling hard for you that this all turns out OK. You definitely have the right attitude about this. If dad can help with the valve adjustments, great, if not it may be time to heal up a bit and tackle this when you're better. No need to hurt yourself working on this. The car will be there.

Not sure if you know this, but a fairly accurate way to ball park your rear gears is to jack up the rear, place the car in neutral, and rotate the tires counting how many revolutions the driveshaft turns compared to one rev of the tires. May need a helper to turn the other tire for you. Keep the rotational rate the same for both. You never know if someone swapped in some crazy set of highway gears in the past. I had a buddy years ago that had a 67 Buick GS 400 4 speed with really tall rear gears. Like close to 80 mph out of second gear tall.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Also, no need to apologize for anything here. You're the type of member here that folks like and want to help. Threads like this is the reason that people come to this forum.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jared said:


> Also, no need to apologize for anything here. You're the type of member here that folks like and want to help. Threads like this is the reason that people come to this forum.


I appreciate the kind words. My gut tells me it's a higher highway rear. I will jack it up and count the driveshaft revolutions once I am able to. It's an open diff anyway so I'd like to ID the gearing in it and ger a posi unit eventually. It's all back rural roads here so I'm not too concerned about highway drivability anyway. I think the car has seen less than 10 miles of highway in the last 10-12 years I've had it ha.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> I give you props for taking on the build yourself. I like you dove in headfirst thinking; I can screw this engine up three times and still come out cheaper than someone else doing it....and them doing it doesn't always come out right.


Thank you. There's a pretty big muscle car scene here and I've been around cars my entire life. I always wanted to build my own engine but I never had a garage until 2 years ago. I spent the last few years of working on my Goat from a gravel pit in the yard so I'm happy as a clam having a garage finally. I have the itch now, there will be more builds once I figure out this engine.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> I give you props for taking on the build yourself. I like you dove in headfirst thinking; I can screw this engine up three times and still come out cheaper than someone else doing it....and them doing it doesn't always come out right.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> He has it listed for $100 obo. The Edelbrock wasn't exactly cheap and I'd gladly sell it and make some of my money back if there isn't a ton of performance difference between the 2 intakes.


Then I would definitely buy it.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> Again, the elephant in the room is the very, very low engine vacuum. An engine is an air pump. It needs to be efficient. We need to find the source of the low vacuum. Can you post a video of it running at idle and then you goose the throttle? I have an UNCANNY ability to detect retarded valvetrains with my ear, not kidding. Have you done a static compression test on this engine? You should be no lower than 170 PSI in every cylinder with your cam and combo, if I have it figured correctly.


Agreed. I literally fought my engine for an entire 6 months, and threw $2500 at the car... it was nothing but a tight rocker. There's a lot to be said about keeping it simple. 

Another time, some people here had me pulling my heads, engine, and transmission, for a $13 vacuum modulator, which took 4 minutes to swap.

If you've not done the basics, then don't expect the high-dollar components to compliment your situation.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> I'm going to put the adapter plate and replace my carb gaskets tomorrow and upload a video from YouTube with it running.


Is there a reason why all of this is being done prior to confirming the valves?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

geeteeohguy said:


> unless you have valves not closing all the way


WHich is what I fought for six months!


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Is there a reason why all of this is being done prior to confirming the valves?


Nope. I'll do the valves first. I'm taking @geeteeohguy and everyone's advice and I'm going to tackle that first.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

From what I've read in previous posts just get the car to operating temp. Install oil deflectors. Use valve adjusting tool (still in the package) to loosen poly lock until you hear valvetrain clatter then tighten until it stops and give a half turn for pre load? I assume it would be a good idea to keep the vacuum gauge hooked up so I can see if it's doing anything for the engine in real time?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

1/4 TO 1/2 Turn, and yes, a vacuum gauge. I picked up 5hg of vacuum on my valve adjustment!


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> 1/4 TO 1/2 Turn, and yes, a vacuum gauge. I picked up 5hg of vacuum on my valve adjustment!


I'll be thrilled if this solves my problems.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

When I do it engine running, I loosen until it clicks and tighten slightly while grabbing the rocker with my fingers and turning it side to side until it only moves a little bit side to side when I wiggle it and while doing this, I watch the pushrod to make sure it is spinning nice and fast. If it stops spinning or slows way down, you are TOO TIGHT. You want them tight enough to not clack, but not so tight you burn a valve and wipe a cam. A spinning pushrod means a happy lifter and camshaft. If you don't want to use your fingers, you can use a wrench or screwdriver or bar to wiggle the arms back and forth. I trust you have poly locks. If you don't, make sure you don't have one-use nuts that lose their locking ability after being removed and installed more than once.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> When I do it engine running, I loosen until it clicks and tighten slightly while grabbing the rocker with my fingers and turning it side to side until it only moves a little bit side to side when I wiggle it and while doing this, I watch the pushrod to make sure it is spinning nice and fast. If it stops spinning or slows way down, you are TOO TIGHT. You want them tight enough to not clack, but not so tight you burn a valve and wipe a cam. A spinning pushrod means a happy lifter and camshaft. If you don't want to use your fingers, you can use a wrench or screwdriver or bar to wiggle the arms back and forth. I trust you have poly locks. If you don't, make sure you don't have one-use nuts that lose their locking ability after being removed and installed more than once.


Awesome! I have mr. Gasket polylocks installed. I'll keep you all posted once I get it done.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> Awesome! I have mr. Gasket polylocks installed. I'll keep you all posted once I get it done.


Sometimes when you tighten your Allen head, it may turn your poly 1/8 to 1/4 more so factor that in on your lash after your first one. Or hold the poly with a wrench while you tighten the allen.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> Sometimes when you tighten your Allen head, it may turn your poly 1/8 to 1/4 more so factor that in on your lash after your first one. Or hold the poly with a wrench while you tighten the allen.


I bought this to adjust the valves. That might be what happened when I initially adjusted them.


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## 66COUPE (Jul 23, 2021)

Goat noob said:


> View attachment 159303
> 
> 
> I bought this to adjust the valves. That might be what happened when I initially adjusted them.


Most guys here are way way way beyond me in the knowledge dept, with my car after a couple years of trying almost everything I could think of plus a lot of things guys that “knew everything “suggested it was as stupid as the little old gas line coming out of the sending unit had a tiny crack where you couldn’t see it. Hopefully it’s something just overlooked and simple. 👍


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

66COUPE said:


> Most guys here are way way way beyond me in the knowledge dept, with my car after a couple years of trying almost everything I could think of plus a lot of things guys that “knew everything “suggested it was as stupid as the little old gas line coming out of the sending unit had a tiny crack where you couldn’t see it. Hopefully it’s something just overlooked and simple. 👍


First crack at engine break in I was leaking gas, oil, and coolant. I had a leak at the sending unit, head bolts needed to be re torqued, and oil sending unit line snapped. I guess it's just part of the process haha. This forum has been a gold mine for me since starting this journey.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Goat noob said:


> View attachment 159303
> 
> 
> I bought this to adjust the valves. That might be what happened when I initially adjusted them.


This is the style tool I used. Makes it really easy to hold to nut in place while tightening the lock. After adjusting and tightening you turn both the nut and the lock 1/16 turn more to lock it in place.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Great KUDOs to you on tackling this yourself (with the help of your Dad and this forum). For humor's sake...

The old car manuals taught us how to adjust the valves (among other technical things)...today's car manuals only tell us not do drink the battery fluid!


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Success! My buddy (an actual mechanic) adjusted my valves and I'm still pulling 11" of steady vacuum. We took it out and it did run better in D. We put it thru the his/hers 1,2,3 and what a world of difference, it rips now. Could my shift points be in need of adjusting? With no improvement of vacuum but an improvement in performance indicate that my cam could have been degreed incorrectly? Today was certainly a win, I'm just being a perfectionist now.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

It's always the valves! Maybe your vacuum gauge is in a poor location and giving a bad reading? That happened to me in my Corvette. As for the trans, they shift real early when they are in Drive. Don't expect to have any fun unless you're in the Dual gate


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> It's always the valves! Maybe your vacuum gauge is in a poor location and giving a bad reading? That happened to me in my Corvette. As for the trans, they shift real early when they are in Drive. Don't expect to have any fun unless you're in the Dual gate


I laid down a ton of rubber today. I really appreciate everyone's help!


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> It's always the valves! Maybe your vacuum gauge is in a poor location and giving a bad reading? That happened to me in my Corvette. As for the trans, they shift real early when they are in Drive. Don't expect to have any fun unless you're in the Dual gate


I had the gauge connected to the manifold port on the carb. I guess I can try the back of the carb that goes to my brake booster? I'm 90% there. I'm going to tinker with my carb for the stumble. Just about in time to put the car away for the winter haha.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I laid down a ton of rubber today. I really appreciate everyone's help!


There you go, welcome to the club.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> It's always the valves! Maybe your vacuum gauge is in a poor location and giving a bad reading? That happened to me in my Corvette. As for the trans, they shift real early when they are in Drive. Don't expect to have any fun unless you're in the Dual gate


Hey he's back from his turkey coma 😉


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> I had the gauge connected to the manifold port on the carb. I guess I can try the back of the carb that goes to my brake booster? I'm 90% there. I'm going to tinker with my carb for the stumble. Just about in time to put the car away for the winter haha.


It just might be that's all that cam is going to give you, I mean I have a 114 LCS and getting only 4.5 inches more. Idk what's left to check to give you more vacuum.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Since we're talking about adjusting valves I've posted a video a while back that my full roller set up seems a little noisy, so can I adjust those with the motor running and up to temp or is it better to follow the directions of Scorpion and Butler but maybe tweak them another quarter turn? I have 1.65 rockers w/poly locks and running 10w40 oil, the drivers side seems louder.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> Since we're talking about adjusting valves I've posted a video a while back that my full roller set up seems a little noisy, so can I adjust those with the motor running and up to temp or is it better to follow the directions of Scorpion and Butler but maybe tweak them another quarter turn? I have 1.65 rockers w/poly locks and running 10w40 oil, the drivers side seems louder.


The roller lifters seem to be a hit or miss thing. They might be fast bleed down types? You can try adjusting them, or at least pull the covers and look for anything unusual, but at the same time you don't want to go too tight and bend things.

Follow whatever method you feel the best for you.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> The roller lifters seem to be a hit or miss thing. They might be fast bleed down types? You can try adjusting them, or at least pull the covers and look for anything unusual, but at the same time you don't want to go too tight and bend things.
> 
> Follow whatever method you feel the best for you.


I believe they are Lunati lifters and I followed the directions from Scorpion, I wasn't sure if you could adjust rollers with the motor running so that's why I was asking so I don't mess up anything. It runs great even racing it but people said it did sound a little loud in the video, I'm replacing the valve covers so while I'm in there thought I would try adjusting them.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> I believe they are Lunati lifters and I followed the directions from Scorpion, I wasn't sure if you could adjust rollers with the motor running so that's why I was asking so I don't mess up anything. It runs great even racing it but people said it did sound a little loud in the video, I'm replacing the valve covers so while I'm in there thought I would try adjusting them.


Lunati's lifters seem to be made by Morel. You can adjust them with the engine running, zero-lash, then tighten just slightly over 1/2 turn or slightly less than 3/4 turn on the poly locks.

*Morel Hydraulic Roller Lifter Adjustment Procedure*


*Street Performance: *
The Street Performance hydraulic lifters are made from a cold formed body with a clipped axle and have a 6500 rpm capability. These lifters have .120″ plunger travel and have an 80% fill rate with the test oil. The lifter wheels in this series are .700″ diameter.
*Recommended Spring Pressure:*
100-180lbs Seat Pressure
280-380lbs Open Pressure

*Performance: *
The Performance hydraulic lifters are made from a billet body with a clipped axle and have a 7000 rpm capability. These lifters (4602,5206,4603,6087) have a .750″ diameter roller wheel. These lifters have a .120″ plunger travel and have an 80% fill rate with the test oil.
*Recommended Spring Pressure:*
100-200lbs Seat Pressure
280-400lbs Open Pressure

It is important to know the thread pitch, in threads per inch, of the adjuster nut, because one complete turn of the nut will move a distance of one complete thread. Therefore, verify the thread pitch of the adjuster nut, because racing rocker manufactures use different nut sizes and thread pitches.

If your adjuster nut is 7/16×20 threads per inch, then divide 1 inch by 20 threads per inch. One complete turn down on a 7/16 x 20 adjustment will move .050″

Next, divide .050″ divide by 4 to calculate the distance for a quarter-turn of the adjuster nut (.050″ / 4 = .0125″).

*For a Cast Iron Block and Aluminum Heads = Adjust for .030″-.035″ or slightly more than 1/2 or slightly less than 3/4 turn with engine running after zero lashing the lifter.*


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Lunati's lifters seem to be made by Morel. You can adjust them with the engine running, zero-lash, then tighten just slightly over 1/2 turn or slightly less than 3/4 turn on the poly locks.
> 
> *Morel Hydraulic Roller Lifter Adjustment Procedure*
> 
> ...


Good info, just to be clear I loosen the rocker until it rattles then tighten until quite that's zero lash? then go an additional 5/8- 3/4 turn? Originally I got to zero lash then about 5/8 turn while cold then a bump once the locking screw was set, and that was a couple years ago.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

armyadarkness said:


> It's always the valves! Maybe your vacuum gauge is in a poor location and giving a bad reading? That happened to me in my Corvette. As for the trans, they shift real early when they are in Drive. Don't expect to have any fun unless you're in the Dual gate


You can adjust the vacuum modulator on the side of the tranny and set the shift points as early or late as you want for WOT. That way, you can just leave it in Drive and nail it and it will shift where you want it to. Trial and error, but all it takes is a small pocket screwdriver.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> You can adjust the vacuum modulator on the side of the tranny and set the shift points as early or late as you want for WOT. That way, you can just leave it in Drive and nail it and it will shift where you want it to. Trial and error, but all it takes is a small pocket screwdriver.


Perfect! I don't have an rpm tach so I'll probably mess with that this week. I'm sure I'm not stretching each gear to its max potential, but I don't want to overdo it and hurt something. Who knows when the last time my trans and rear felt healty low end torque.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

Baaad65 said:


> Good info, just to be clear I loosen the rocker until it rattles then tighten until quite that's zero lash? then go an additional 5/8- 3/4 turn? Originally I got to zero lash then about 5/8 turn while cold then a bump once the locking screw was set, and that was a couple years ago.


Do the adjustment with the engine warm - BUT others will argue cold, I do it with the engine at temp.. Once the clacking stops, give it a few seconds-ish for the lifter to "normalize". It can bleed down a bit and then start clacking again, so turn the poly lock too soon. Make sure all rockers are pushing oil out the spurt hole. If they trickle or slow down, it can be the lifter plunger is too tight, but you should be OK.

This is adjusting them on a boat engine, but same process, and he made a simple tool to help.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

PontiacJim said:


> Do the adjustment with the engine warm - BUT others will argue cold, I do it with the engine at temp.. Once the clacking stops, give it a few seconds-ish for the lifter to "normalize". It can bleed down a bit and then start clacking again, so turn the poly lock too soon. Make sure all rockers are pushing oil out the spurt hole. If they trickle or slow down, it can be the lifter plunger is too tight, but you should be OK.
> 
> This is adjusting them on a boat engine, but same process, and he made a simple tool to help.


Ok great, doing it warmed up makes more sense to me. Was just making sure this could be done on a roller set up and I know all the clicking won't disappear with a roller.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

Someone mentioned it above and it is worth repeating - the vacuum gauge itself could be off. I've got three gauges and they all read different. Had a friend that tore into his engine because of extremely low compression numbers and it turned out his gauge assembly had a crack in the hose bleeding off pressure.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

lust4speed said:


> Someone mentioned it above and it is worth repeating - the vacuum gauge itself could be off. I've got three gauges and they all read different. Had a friend that tore into his engine because of extremely low compression numbers and it turned out his gauge assembly had a crack in the hose bleeding off pressure.


I can pick up a new gauge just to confirm. Besides the stumble in the carb it's running the best it ever has. I should be able to tinker with it and get it responsive again.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I can pick up a new gauge just to confirm. Besides the stumble in the carb it's running the best it ever has. I should be able to tinker with it and get it responsive again.


when exactly is your stumble?


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

RMTZ67 said:


> when exactly is your stumble?


Off idle. I don't have a strong pump shot. I've played with my accelerator lever, pump cam, and upped my squirter nozzle and it didn't help. I'm going to revisit that. I might have to adjust the secondaries, I just learned there is a screw under the carb that'll adjust them and might be what it needs with the larger cam. It's a holley 750 vacuum secondary. Any insight would certainly be appreciated.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> Off idle. I don't have a strong pump shot. I've played with my accelerator lever, pump cam, and upped my squirter nozzle and it didn't help. I'm going to revisit that. I might have to adjust the secondaries, I just learned there is a screw under the carb that'll adjust them and might be what it needs with the larger cam. It's a holley 750 vacuum secondary. Any insight would certainly be appreciated.


can


Goat noob said:


> Off idle. I don't have a strong pump shot. I've played with my accelerator lever, pump cam, and upped my squirter nozzle and it didn't help. I'm going to revisit that. I might have to adjust the secondaries, I just learned there is a screw under the carb that'll adjust them and might be what it needs with the larger cam. It's a holley 750 vacuum secondary. Any insight would certainly be appreciated.


Troubleshooting Holley Hesitation Off Idle - Bing video 
I am not a holley guy but, maybe this will help or one of his other videos.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I had a hesitation also on my double pumper but only going from idle to wot, I believe that screw only adjusts the secondarys.


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## lust4speed (Jul 5, 2019)

That screw only adjusts the throttle position of the secondary's. That is helpful with very large cams since additional idle capacity can be obtained. Prior to Holley coming out with the secondary idle circuit we would drill holes in the primary throttle plates to increase airflow and then we would increase the idle richness screws to obtain proper mixture. If just the primary butterflies were opened enough to obtain the proper idle speed the blades would be past the rectangular slits that promote the correct idle mixture.

All you need to do is remove the carb and turn it over and see where the primary butterflies sit adjacent to the slits. If they are open past the slits at idle, then adjusting the secondary idle circuit will be necessary.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

lust4speed said:


> Someone mentioned it above and it is worth repeating - the vacuum gauge itself could be off. I've got three gauges and they all read different. Had a friend that tore into his engine because of extremely low compression numbers and it turned out his gauge assembly had a crack in the hose bleeding off pressure.


Yes my Vette had a vac gauge that was way off. I bought a new, quality gauge and plumbed it into the interior headlight vacuum. It read almost 8hg lower than plumbing it at the manifold!


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I had a hesitation also on my double pumper but only going from idle to wot, I believe that screw only adjusts the secondarys.


That's one of the issues with a double-pumper. You get the gas whether your engine can handle it, or not.

Double pumpers are mythical creatures, but just like headers, big cams, and 65,000 volt coils, they usually hurt more than they help, unless the car was specifically tuned for them. Nevertheless, most people keep all of these things, because they're willing to give up a little performance/ economy/ efficiency, in exchange for some bragging rights.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> Nevertheless, most people keep all of these things, because they're willing to give up a little performance/ economy/ efficiency, in exchange for some bragging rights.


Which, by the way, isnt necessarily a bad thing. After all, we're ALL basically doing that, simply by running Pontiac V8's. Turbocharged Honda Vtechs engines are ultra efficient, but who wants that in a GTO?

It's interesting to note that I've watched hotrodders "over-carb", for the last 35 years... but in this forum, most guys seem to under-carb... which is ironic, since Pontiacs are one of the few engines that like to be over-carbed.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> Which, by the way, isnt necessarily a bad thing. After all, we're ALL basically doing that, simply by running Pontiac V8's. Turbocharged Honda Vtechs engines are ultra efficient, but who wants that in a GTO?
> 
> It's interesting to note that I've watched hotrodders "over-carb", for the last 35 years... but in this forum, most guys seem to under-carb... which is ironic, since Pontiacs are one of the few engines that like to be over-carbed.


That's good to know. If I can't resolve the stumble is it possible I need to move up in size from the 750?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

armyadarkness said:


> That's one of the issues with a double-pumper. You get the gas whether your engine can handle it, or not.
> 
> Double pumpers are mythical creatures, but just like headers, big cams, and 65,000 volt coils, they usually hurt more than they help, unless the car was specifically tuned for them. Nevertheless, most people keep all of these things, because they're willing to give up a little performance/ economy/ efficiency, in exchange for some bragging rights.


...unless you tune the carb right then it's an asset.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> That's good to know. If I can't resolve the stumble is it possible I need to move up in size from the 750?


Personally, I consider 750 to be the low cutoff point for a Pontiac 400. Heck, even the 350's and 389's had huge carb setups from the factory. However, I dont think that's the cause of your stumble.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> That's good to know. If I can't resolve the stumble is it possible I need to move up in size from the 750?


Nah, like lust said it's usually a transfer slot issue, I had to do trial and error for a while to get mine to work good. Make sure your throttle cable is adjusted correctly, ...then make sure the accelerator pump is adjusted correctly, that's critical there should be a squirt of fuel soon as you crack the throttle, and check the diaphragm on it for tears. Next is the pump cam some give you a longer duration squirt and some a shorter but more volume of fuel and there's 2 sometimes 3 positions for the cam, my carb was custom built and had pink cams but I had to change to the blue ones and up the squirters to #35 nozzles and up the power valve so you see each carb has to be tailored to the motor it's on.. but make sure you're timing is all good, no vacuum leaks anymore and now it sounds like your valves are adjusted correctly so the carb is the last thing and again only one change at a time. Lots of info out there on adjusting a Holley like RMTZ67 sent you.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> ...unless you tune the carb right then it's an asset.


Yes, that's what I just said.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> ...unless you tune the carb right then it's an asset.


Obviously they exist for a good reason... just like opioids, the majority of the users are misusing them. That doesnt mean there's not a valid reason to have them.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Goat noob said:


> Off idle. I don't have a strong pump shot. I've played with my accelerator lever, pump cam, and upped my squirter nozzle and it didn't help. I'm going to revisit that. I might have to adjust the secondaries, I just learned there is a screw under the carb that'll adjust them and might be what it needs with the larger cam. It's a holley 750 vacuum secondary. Any insight would certainly be appreciated.


You need to fix the pump shot. New pump diaphragm or clear the passages. Without a strong pump shot it will stumble. Has zero to do with carb size. My '65 GTO doesn't stumble with the tiny 2bbl center carb that is used 95% of the time on my tripower engine. It has about 300 cfm max.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Agreed, maybe put a video out looking down the carb and is the stumble while parked or under load? Watch a video on adjusting the accelerator pump, and transfer slots even if it's a new carb take the pump off and examine the diaphragm. I think your build wasn't anything crazy so 750 cfm is fine, so once that is all in order then move to the primary cam. I doubt it's even to small of a squirter it's a delivery problem. I had a 770 on my 461 with ported heads a big cam and an Eddy Performer RPM and it was fine I just thought a DP was better with a manual transmission vs a vacuum secondary so I went up to an 850 but that can been argued about too.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I also feel as if I have some slack in my throttle cable and on top of that I don't have a strong stream of fuel that shoots from the nozzle. My upper rad hose is in the way of installing one of those fancy overpriced holley throttle brackets (I'm still bitter about spending $100 on it) I might take the t Stat housing off the old engine (it points up instead of at 4:00) and that should solve the issue. Could it be a loose cable? The carb does nothing when i move the throttle and then it slowly squirts out. On a lighter note, I just picked up that stock intake for $75.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Quick Share

the only thing that's more challenging than my car is figuring out how to share videos for you all haha. Thats my pump shot and throttle linkage setup.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Pump shot


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Weak pump shot 

3rd time is the charm


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Goat noob said:


> Weak pump shot
> 
> 3rd time is the charm


I replaced the diaphragm last year because I punctured it checking if I still had wiggle room when it was at WOT. I went up a size on the squirter nozzle. I don't recall what size and I changed position of the pump cam to give a earlier shot of gas but that didn't seem to help anything. I'll take the carb off when I have an extra set of hands and check it over.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> I replaced the diaphragm last year because I punctured it checking if I still had wiggle room when it was at WOT. I went up a size on the squirter nozzle. I don't recall what size and I changed position of the pump cam to give a earlier shot of gas but that didn't seem to help anything. I'll take the carb off when I have an extra set of hands and check it over.


So you need two hands or a lovely assistant if your arm is still unavailable to check the accelerator pump, holding it at wot you should be able to get a .015 feelers gauge between the screw adjustment head and the pump arm. Look at a video on that but hopefully you didn't puncture again, it was hard to see but what I could see looks weak, like how I pee now...you want it like a baby boy that when you take his diaper off and almost hits you
in the eye 😉 Also I'm by far not the expert here but learned a lot from reading and videos and the experts on this site which helped me tune my carb so don't take my word as gospel I just know what worked for me. Here's a couple of books I refer to so if you understand how the carb works then it helps you diagnose problems.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> So you need two hands or a lovely assistant if your arm is still unavailable to check the accelerator pump, holding it at wot you should be able to get a .015 feelers gauge between the screw adjustment head and the pump arm. Look at a video on that but hopefully you didn't puncture again, it was hard to see but what I could see looks weak, like how I pee now...you want it like a baby boy that when you take his diaper off and almost hits you
> in the eye 😉 Also I'm by far not the expert here but learned a lot from reading and videos and the experts on this site which helped me tune my carb so don't take my word as gospel I just know what worked for me. Here's a couple of books I refer to so if you understand how the carb works then it helps you diagnose problems.
> View attachment 159468


It was challenging taking that video haha. I start PT in 2 weeks but I'll get someone to help me with the gauge. I tore my pec off the bone lifting weights earlier this year trying to be a strongman.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"I tore my pec off"

I'm sorry, mine is still attached.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> It was challenging taking that video haha. I start PT in 2 weeks but I'll get someone to help me with the gauge. I tore my pec off the bone lifting weights earlier this year trying to be a strongman.


Don't re injure yourself over tuning a car it's not worth it, the car will be there when you're better 👍


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Goat noob said:


> Quick Share
> 
> the only thing that's more challenging than my car is figuring out how to share videos for you all haha. Thats my pump shot and throttle linkage setup.


Upload the video to YouTube, then copy and paste the link in your thread. So easy that even a computer illiterate guy like me can easily do it.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Goat noob said:


> It was challenging taking that video haha. I start PT in 2 weeks but I'll get someone to help me with the gauge. I tore my pec off the bone lifting weights earlier this year trying to be a strongman.


Getting older sucks heh? I'm only in my mid 40s and tore my calf muscle walking up my driveway a couple years ago. Ironic part was this happened after I had lost a ton of weight and started getting daily exercise compared the whole lot of nothing I had been doing before. Not sure how bad the torn pec felt, but when my calf went it felt like someone had hit me in the back of the leg with a ball pean hammer and took months to heal. Take care of that injury my friend. The car can wait.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jared said:


> Upload the video to YouTube, then copy and paste the link in your thread. So easy that even a computer illiterate guy like me can easily do it.


I uploaded it to YouTube on my 3rd attempt to share the video. I'll just do that going forward.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jared said:


> Getting older sucks heh? I'm only in my mid 40s and tore my calf muscle walking up my driveway a couple years ago. Ironic part was this happened after I had lost a ton of weight and started getting daily exercise compared the whole lot of nothing I had been doing before. Not sure how bad the torn pec felt, but when my calf went it felt like someone had hit me in the back of the leg with a ball pean hammer and took months to heal. Take care of that injury my friend. The car can wait.


That sounds awful! The pec didn't hurt much surprisingly but I had almost no strength in my arm for months. Good thing most of my engine was assembly when I did that ha.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

PontiacJim said:


> "I tore my pec off"
> 
> I'm sorry, mine is still attached.


You've made that _quite_ clear! LOL

Noob, it needs to shoot out like a squirt gun, not dribble. That is your issue. Re-check the diaphragm (I have seen them fail in a month or less) and blow the passages out if you need to. New fuel has alcohol in it, and alcohol abosorbs water and will bpit the internals of a carb. I have one Holley on the shelf that is terribly corroded from our new gas. You may have a cruddy passage or debris. I would check the diaphragm and blow the passages out. This is a pump shot issue, not a delivery or CFM issue.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> You've made that _quite_ clear! LOL
> 
> Noob, it needs to shoot out like a squirt gun, not dribble. That is your issue. Re-check the diaphragm (I have seen them fail in a month or less) and blow the passages out if you need to. New fuel has alcohol in it, and alcohol abosorbs water and will bpit the internals of a carb. I have one Holley on the shelf that is terribly corroded from our new gas. You may have a cruddy passage or debris. I would check the diaphragm and blow the passages out. This is a pump shot issue, not a delivery or CFM issue.


I already talked my old man into coming up on Friday and pulling the carb off for me so I can inspect. I'll report back once I find something.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Here's how it should work.Carb squirt


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Another view Carb accelerator nozzles


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I'll get into it this week. I'm not sure what thr issue can be. I adjusted the accelerator pump until i can get a .015 feeler gauge in there at WOT but it didn't help the squirt. I'll inspect the diaphragm and inspect the squirter nozzle. I might even have a holley 780 laying around the garage I might be able to just pop on.


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## chrisn (2 mo ago)

im not sure but my 650 and 780 has a power valve in it but both are vac secondarys carb ive never used a double pumper on a auto matic trans mission car and yes the gas now adays is crap in the last 5 years every spring when i get the carbed cars out ive had to tear them down and clean them up even with stabil it drys to a white powder that turns almost into a paste when new fuel is added but this is just what ive found


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

chrisn said:


> im not sure but my 650 and 780 has a power valve in it but both are vac secondarys carb ive never used a double pumper on a auto matic trans mission car and yes the gas now adays is crap in the last 5 years every spring when i get the carbed cars out ive had to tear them down and clean them up even with stabil it drys to a white powder that turns almost into a paste when new fuel is added but this is just what ive found


There's a place up the street that has non ethanol 91 maybe I should start using. I'm going to inspect my accelerator pump diaphragm and see if my power valve is the correct size. This engine is producing a considerable amout less vacuum over the old engine. My carb is probably only 3 years old but it's just been sitting with junk gas in it.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

That's not good, boy I wish we had a place to get non corn gas.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

I would think carbs these days would have parts that would be compatible with the current fuel.
I bought my Quadrajet fifteen years ago and have had no issues....so what gives?


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I guess they make a "GFLT" type diaphragm that is more compatible with today's gas. I guess I should be thinking about a fuel stabilizer as well. Does any one use seafoam or recommended any other brand. I'll probably fire my car up a few times during the winter but once the snow starts here it won't be on the road until April at least.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

So I took my carb off and checked the diaphragm. It looked fine, I'll still replace it once I get out to an auto parts store tomorrow. I found one red flag, I put a size 40 squirter and did not upgrade to a 50cc diaphragm or upgraded pump lever. I found the 32 squirter and installed that back on. I was reading about the screw underneath that can adjust the secondarys. It didn't seem to do anything when I loosened or tightened. I also just wanted to post a pic of my throttle blades to see if anyone thought they should be closed more...?


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I guess they make a "GFLT" type diaphragm that is more compatible with today's gas. I guess I should be thinking about a fuel stabilizer as well. Does any one use seafoam or recommended any other brand. I'll probably fire my car up a few times during the winter but once the snow starts here it won't be on the road until April at least.


I use the marine type sta-bil to keep the water in the fuel at bay.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> View attachment 159552
> 
> View attachment 159553
> 
> ...


That could be a problem also I think your transfer slots are supposed to form a square from the throttle plates reveal.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Was thinking if you still have the carb off go through it and make sure everything is clean, then check your power valve if you had any backfire through the carb it could get blown out and what size is it? Starting point is half your vacuum so if you're still at 11 inches probably a 5.5 and use a high flow. What jets are you running, probably a good starting point is #72 primary #78 secondary (Holleys tend to be set up to lean for these Pontiacs) but this all depends on road testing and plug reading. You know Lemans guy helped me a lot on tuning but I haven't seen him for a while maybe PM him.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Was thinking if you still have the carb off go through it and make sure everything is clean, then check your power valve if you had any backfire through the carb it could get blown out and what size is it? Starting point is half your vacuum so if you're still at 11 inches probably a 5.5 and use a high flow. What jets are you running, probably a good starting point is #72 primary #78 secondary (Holleys tend to be set up to lean for these Pontiacs) but this all depends on road testing and plug reading. You know Lemans guy helped me a lot on tuning but I haven't seen him for a while maybe PM him.


I just got back from a short lived test drive ha. I replaced the diaphragm to the pump and check valve. I even removed the green pump cam and pulled an orange one off another holley that seemed to engage the pump arm immediately upon touching the throttle so I had high hopes. I went from a 6.5 power valve to a 4.5, I should probably go even smaller since I realized today my vacuum is 7" in gear. My stumble seems worse now and I can't even see a stream of gas coming through the nozzle now. I've been checking it in park this whole time like a noob. I never touched my jets so that's a good point you bring up. I can always pull it back off and go through it again. Holleys aren't as intimidating as they once were for me.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

no pump shot







youtube.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> I just got back from a short lived test drive ha. I replaced the diaphragm to the pump and check valve. I even removed the green pump cam and pulled an orange one off another holley that seemed to engage the pump arm immediately upon touching the throttle so I had high hopes. I went from a 6.5 power valve to a 4.5, I should probably go even smaller since I realized today my vacuum is 7" in gear. My stumble seems worse now and I can't even see a stream of gas coming through the nozzle now. I've been checking it in park this whole time like a noob. I never touched my jets so that's a good point you bring up. I can always pull it back off and go through it again. Holleys aren't as intimidating as they once were for me.


Don't worry about the PV or the jets now that's part of the cruise and power circuit, idk what's causing such a low vacuum reading but remember one change at a time. So did you try it after just changing the squirters because those were way to big and do require a 50cc pump. So you used new flange gaskets and you're sure there's no vacuum leaks ? Sucks that it went backwards, PM Lemans guy.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Don't worry about the PV or the jets now that's part of the cruise and power circuit, idk what's causing such a low vacuum reading but remember one change at a time. So did you try it after just changing the squirters because those were way to big and do require a 50cc pump. So you used new flange gaskets and you're sure there's no vacuum leaks ? Sucks that it went backwards, PM Lemans guy.


I will PM him. I realized that my check valve was not inserted all the way on the accelerator pump. I took it apart and fixed it and installed a size 35 squirter and I have a great pump shot now but still have the hesitation.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

not crisp







youtube.com


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> not crisp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well the choke is half closed, is it warmed up to operating temp? if so maybe you need to adjust the choke and I think your hand flicking it is faster than the pedal so maybe see how it does with both of those things but it's not bad, I was always trying to have the perfect throttle response parked in the garage but where it matters is on the street so try it driving and see if you still have a hesitation but you're close.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Well the choke is half closed, is it warmed up to operating temp? if so maybe you need to adjust the choke and I think your hand flicking it is faster than the pedal so maybe see how it does with both of those things but it's not bad, I was always trying to have the perfect throttle response parked in the garage but where it matters is on the street so try it driving and see if you still have a hesitation but you're close.


I'll take it for a rip tomorrow and report back.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Goat noob said:


> View attachment 159552
> 
> View attachment 159553
> 
> ...


 Your primary throttle plates are indeed too far open. The idle transfer slot is totally exposed, so you are by-passing the idle circuit and running on the main. You need to set the idle with the throttle blades closed and let the idle mixture circuit do the work.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Your primary throttle plates are indeed too far open. The idle transfer slot is totally exposed, so you are by-passing the idle circuit and running on the main. You need to set the idle with the throttle blades closed and let the idle mixture circuit do the work.


After taking those pics I closed the blades until a square was showing on the primaries. I did play with the screw that adjuststs the vac secondary but that didn't seem to do anything to the blades so I turned it back to where it was. I haven't set up my timing light to see where my rpms are yet but they are close. I can hear the cam in gear again.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Goat noob said:


> After taking those pics I closed the blades until a square was showing on the primaries. I did play with the screw that adjuststs the vac secondary but that didn't seem to do anything to the blades so I turned it back to where it was. I haven't set up my timing light to see where my rpms are yet but they are close. I can hear the cam in gear again.


Youtube also tells me I should set my secondarys or adjust timing for idle and leave the primary blades closed so don't even touch the idle speed screw by the linkage since that'll open the primary blades. That makes sense why anytime I've adjusted my mixture screws it didn't do anything in the past.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> Youtube also tells me I should set my secondarys or adjust timing for idle and leave the primary blades closed so don't even touch the idle speed screw by the linkage since that'll open the primary blades. That makes sense why anytime I've adjusted my mixture screws it didn't do anything in the past.


Not sure what you mean by setting the secondarys or idle by timing but don't worry about the secondarys until you get the hesitation out of the primarys, I thought you had your timing set, then set idle speed maybe 750-800 in park then adjust idle mixture screws to the highest vacuum working the fronts back and forth then the rears. Then work on the hesitation, what about the choke is it fully open at operating temp?


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

The choke was not fully opening unless I cracked the throttle. I adjusted the choke place to open once warm. I set my primary and secondary blades to show a square on each. I'll leave the carb on the bench until I get some guidance. I'm not proud to say how many times I had the carb off the car the last 48 hours. 1st pic is secondary and 2nd pic is primary.ill also attach the link of where I got this information from. Ive alwats just set idle from idle speed screw on my carbs.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)




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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> The choke was not fully opening unless I cracked the throttle. I adjusted the choke place to open once warm. I set my primary and secondary blades to show a square on each. I'll leave the carb on the bench until I get some guidance. I'm not proud to say how many times I had the carb off the car the last 48 hours. 1st pic is secondary and 2nd pic is primary.ill also attach the link of where I got this information from. Ive alwats just set idle from idle speed screw on my carbs.
> View attachment 159599
> 
> View attachment 159600


Well you're getting everything dialed in correctly so as long as there's no junk stuck in any passages you should have it pretty close, and once you have it up and running again check the float levels so they are no higher than halfway up the sight glasses but that isn't going to give you the off idle stumble. I say put it on, let it warm up, dial in the mixture screws for the highest possible vacuum and see how it goes, then you can experiment with the cams and squirters but again one change at a time or you will chasing your tail 👍


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Update. The car is running better than ever but my idle is high (1100 in park) I didn't want to sacrifice timing by retarding it so I'll probably take my car off and re index the primaries and set the secondaries closed more. My air mixure screws had no impact on my vacuum gauge. I did order a new gauge and a trick kit for my holley that's on it and the 4150 thats on the shelf. I have a new mystery noise that I'll share below. Not sure it's a loose belt or a sign that my alternator is about to die. My belts aren't loose but they aren't as tight as I'd like them but they are stretched out to the max on the bracket so I'm questioning if I have the wrong size belt on. Let me know what you think about the noise. I have no idea how old the alternator is.https://youtube.com/shorts/fRD45ai_N7Y?feature=share


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

New noise


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Take a long screwdriver or rubber hose about 18" long and hold one end to your ear and place the other on the alternator ant both ends, water pump, etc. Very easy to pinpoint noises this way. Sounds like a dry bearing to me, not a rubber belt, which generally is a louder CHIRP.
The engine itself sounds GREAT, even compression, no noises, healthy. You need to get the idle down. If your idle is adjusted all the way down and not touching, verify the throttle is closed (Spring and throttle cable not hanging up) and if that's ok, consider disconnecting the vacuum advance from manifold vacuum and connecting it to a ported source. Great progress!!


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Take a long screwdriver or rubber hose about 18" long and hold one end to your ear and place the other on the alternator ant both ends, water pump, etc. Very easy to pinpoint noises this way. Sounds like a dry bearing to me, not a rubber belt, which generally is a louder CHIRP.
> The engine itself sounds GREAT, even compression, no noises, healthy. You need to get the idle down. If your idle is adjusted all the way down and not touching, verify the throttle is closed (Spring and throttle cable not hanging up) and if that's ok, consider disconnecting the vacuum advance from manifold vacuum and connecting it to a ported source. Great progress!!


Thank you! I couldn't do this without everyone's help here. I will try to ID the noise with a hose. I did not compression test the engine yet but I will sometime this winter and report my findings. I'm missing out on about 1/4" of my throttle opening. Can I just drill a hole in the throttle Bracket and put my bolt that holds my throttle cable to the bracket to ensure I'm getting 100% from my gas pedal? The car is an absolute screamer compared to how it was all these years. I wish I did this years ago.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Post a pic of your throttle cable and bracket.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I can get to my secondary idle screw like this, and ya maybe an alternator bearing if the belt was too tight at one point.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

...and good work 👍


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> Thank you! I couldn't do this without everyone's help here. I will try to ID the noise with a hose. I did not compression test the engine yet but I will sometime this winter and report my findings. I'm missing out on about 1/4" of my throttle opening. Can I just drill a hole in the throttle Bracket and put my bolt that holds my throttle cable to the bracket to ensure I'm getting 100% from my gas pedal? The car is an absolute screamer compared to how it was all these years. I wish I did this years ago.


I drilled the notch for the barrel so I could move it back.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Sounds like the alternator bearing getting ready to seize. Hard to tell from a video, but that's my bet along with yours. Be VERY careful with the "long screwdriver" method of finding the noise source...it works great, but could end up in your skull. I've used short sections of broom sticks and the like, but I always think about what happens if it catches a moving part and has to "go" somewhere...the only place for it to go is towards the brain.

Kudos to you for the efforts you are putting in to get this engine running right...keep it up!


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> I can get to my secondary idle screw like this, and ya maybe an alternator bearing if the belt was too tight at one point.
> View attachment 159601


That's brilliant! I will try that.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Sick467 said:


> Sounds like the alternator bearing getting ready to seize. Hard to tell from a video, but that's my bet along with yours. Be VERY careful with the "long screwdriver" method of finding the noise source...it works great, but could end up in your skull. I've used short sections of broom sticks and the like, but I always think about what happens if it catches a moving part and has to "go" somewhere...the only place for it to go is towards the brain.
> 
> Kudos to you for the efforts you are putting in to get this engine running right...keep it up!


The sound is super loud at times, I don't think I want to put a hose or anything on it and in my ear now that I think about it. Is there any benefit to upgrading to a 100-150 amp alternator? I'm not running anything on the car that would require extra output... my wire is secured with a zip tie (for the last 12 years) onto my alternator so it would be a step in the right direction to replace that anyway.


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## Sick467 (Oct 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> The sound is super loud at times, I don't think I want to put a hose or anything on it and in my ear now that I think about it. Is there any benefit to upgrading to a 100-150 amp alternator? I'm not running anything on the car that would require extra output... my wire is secured with a zip tie (for the last 12 years) onto my alternator so it would be a step in the right direction to replace that anyway.


There is no reason to upgrade to a higher amp alternator unless you plan on using more amps. Things like a stereo amplifiers, light bars, & ac converters would like an alternator upgrade, but for the average car, stick with a stock or slightly larger alternator. I would not go with an alternator more than the AC cars came out with if you don't have AC, otherwise just a small step up.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> That's brilliant! I will try that.


Thanks, and Harbor Fright has a stethoscope for cheap I'm sure...while you're there pick up a dentist telescoping mirror to see that screw. Ya that idle is way to fast.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> Post a pic of your throttle cable and bracket.





geeteeohguy said:


> Post a pic of your throttle cable and bracket.





geeteeohguy said:


> Post a pic of your throttle cable and bracket.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Idk, maybe can you bend the pedal bracket a little to take up the slack?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

....idk why I didn't think of this before but just take the alternator belt off, if the noise goes away mystery solved. And I would get an 80amp if you have to replace it in case you add anything later you're covered.


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## Scott06 (May 6, 2020)

Id go for alternator bearing maybe water pump.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> The sound is super loud at times, I don't think I want to put a hose or anything on it and in my ear now that I think about it. Is there any benefit to upgrading to a 100-150 amp alternator? I'm not running anything on the car that would require extra output... my wire is secured with a zip tie (for the last 12 years) onto my alternator so it would be a step in the right direction to replace that anyway.


No. And there's a potentially considerable downside to it. The higher the amps that the alternator puts out, the more horsepower it takes to turn the alternator... so you'll be adding parasitic HP drag to your car, however, that's only if the vehicle is drawing those amps. Like AC, it only drags if you turn it on.

You wont likely hurt yourself by adding a larger alternator, but it's very important to learn "good house keeping" early on when it comes to mechanical stuff. This will give you the knowledge that you need to dispel "internet-old-wives-tales", when you come across them... and you will.

Adding things like:

Electric fans
Turbos
Headers
MSD Ignitions
Racing Distributors
Dual batteries
Noisy Timing Gears
Are all very popular hotrod mods, that people have been misusing for decades! And most of them hurt/ hinder you, if you dont need them. 

Don't get me wrong, if loading up your car with bells, horns, and whistles is your game, then it can easily be safely done... but it will definitely add weight, complication, and cost to your project, and unless it's done carefully, it usually hurts performance and mileage.

Adding a larger alternator is like taking a daily aspirin; if you need one, then it outweighs the downsides.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Scott06 said:


> Id go for alternator bearing maybe water pump.


In 65 cars, I've never had an alternator bearing go yet... but I guess there's a first time for everything.

On the other hand, I've had 4 Pontiacs lose a water pump bearing, and seen at least ten other do the same. When Mine went last year, I lost the factory fan, radiator, and a few other parts, and had to get towed home from far away. 

A quality water pump is a necessity for a Pontiiac


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> No. And there's a potentially considerable downside to it. The higher the amps that the alternator puts out, the more horsepower it takes to turn the alternator... so you'll be adding parasitic HP drag to your car, however, that's only if the vehicle is drawing those amps. Like AC, it only drags if you turn it on.
> 
> You wont likely hurt yourself by adding a larger alternator, but it's very important to learn "good house keeping" early on when it comes to mechanical stuff. This will give you the knowledge that you need to dispel "internet-old-wives-tales", when you come across them... and you will.
> 
> ...


I ordered a 55 amp alternator. I don't have A/C and the only thing I would consider adding would be a rpm tach. I don't listen to my AM radio so I just throw in my wireless Bluetooth speaker when I want to listen to music. I want to keep my interior as original as possible. The only thing I am running is an electronic vacuum pump so my brakes can function on the low vacuum my engine pulls. I surprisingly have not had any overheating issues in his car. The old water pump leaked for the last 10 years but never died on me.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

armyadarkness said:


> In 65 cars, I've never had an alternator bearing go yet... but I guess there's a first time for everything.
> 
> On the other hand, I've had 4 Pontiacs lose a water pump bearing, and seen at least ten other do the same. When Mine went last year, I lost the factory fan, radiator, and a few other parts, and had to get towed home from far away.
> 
> A quality water pump is a necessity for a Pontiiac


I bought a flowkooler pump from butler for this engine. I'll report back if the noise doesn't go away after changing the alternator. I am running the 8 bolt timing cover so I originally ordered the wrong water pump because I didn't bother to count the bolt holes. _facepalm_


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Baaad65 said:


> Idk, maybe can you bend the pedal bracket a little to take up the slack?


No. It would cant the cable upward even more. BTDT in 1980 and it caused my tripower to stick wide open and caused me to crash. The cure is to either drill another hole in the carb ahead of the other and re-install the stud, or to modify the bracket so you can mount the cable rearward. But the cable is already bound up and sharply curved. Moving the mount back would make it worse. But yeah, the cable has too much slack and that is a problem.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

geeteeohguy said:


> No. It would cant the cable upward even more. BTDT in 1980 and it caused my tripower to stick wide open and caused me to crash. The cure is to either drill another hole in the carb ahead of the other and re-install the stud, or to modify the bracket so you can mount the cable rearward. But the cable is already bound up and sharply curved. Moving the mount back would make it worse. But yeah, the cable has too much slack and that is a problem.


I'll drill another hole and take out the slack. I've had my throttle stick a few times on my trans am, it's scary stuff. Glad you're OK!


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> I'll drill another hole and take out the slack. I've had my throttle stick a few times on my trans am, it's scary stuff. Glad you're OK!





Goat noob said:


> I'll drill another hole and take out the slack. I've had my throttle stick a few times on my trans am, it's scary stuff. Glad you're OK!


I guess with the Performer RPM and the spacer it's taller because I could barely get my cable into an original bracket.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Would trying the hole above help your slack I know they look pretty even but it might give you a little more leverage so the pedal is easier, this is where mine is mounted.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

geeteeohguy said:


> No. It would cant the cable upward even more. BTDT in 1980 and it caused my tripower to stick wide open and caused me to crash. The cure is to either drill another hole in the carb ahead of the other and re-install the stud, or to modify the bracket so you can mount the cable rearward. But the cable is already bound up and sharply curved. Moving the mount back would make it worse. But yeah, the cable has too much slack and that is a problem.


...and that's why I need to be fact checked by an expert, had no idea that would happen.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Would trying the hole above help your slack I know they look pretty even but it might give you a little more leverage so the pedal is easier, this is where mine is mounted.
> View attachment 159668


I have about 1/4" that I'm not getting out of the pedal. I'll play with it a little to see where I'm going to drill. I put a 1" spacer on it but it didn't seem to make a difference with slack. I was mocking up the bracket below and I can't make it work until I replace my upper rad hose since it's in the way but I don't believe my throttle cable will secure to the rear of the Bracket anyway. I'm sure someday I'll upgrade the throttle cable (sooner rather than later if this doesn't work.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> The choke was not fully opening unless I cracked the throttle. I adjusted the choke place to open once warm. I set my primary and secondary blades to show a square on each. I'll leave the carb on the bench until I get some guidance. I'm not proud to say how many times I had the carb off the car the last 48 hours. 1st pic is secondary and 2nd pic is primary.ill also attach the link of where I got this information from. Ive alwats just set idle from idle speed screw on my carbs.
> View attachment 159599
> 
> View attachment 159600


Just another thought came to me, while you had the accelerator pump apart did you inspect the check valve ?


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Just another thought came to me, while you had the accelerator pump apart did you inspect the check valve ?


I inspected it until it ripped. I had to make a trip to the parts store for another. I then discovered you have to pull the tail until the ball pulls through the hole in the pump plate. The pump shot is better but it's still not squirting out of the nozzle like my other cars. The hesitation is minimal now but I'll continue to play with it until it's solved. I couldn't adjust the secondaries with the carb on so when my new alternator belt comes I'll tackle it all then.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Baaad65 said:


> ...and that's why I need to be fact checked by an expert, had no idea that would happen.


Neither did I, but I was 19 at the time and used the Carter AFB bracket on the tripower. The angle was all wrong. Car was totaled and I got new front teeth. I was in the middle of a sharp turn and the car was drifting and there was no time to turn off the engine or anything. Stripped the running gear out of the car to re-use (it all turned out to be ruined---engine, trans, and rear end) and gave the shell to a good friend and we put a new frame under it and new sheet metal up front (Plenty of '66 GTO's in the junkyards then) and it ended up back on the road a year later with the drivetrain of a 4 speed '70 HO 455 GTO in it...with 4.56 gears and dual quads. 
My next 'stuck throttle' story happened shortly after that, driving a friend's '66 GTO, Barrier Blue with a hopped up 389 running dual quads on a tunnel ram with 4.11 gears and a vertigate shifter on the Muncie....I nailed it in town on a level road with no traffic, the throttle stuck wide open in second gear, and I immediately shut the ignition off. Live and learn. The throttle and its linkage are as important as the steering or brakes, and it needs to be smooth and NOT stick or bind!!


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## Scott06 (May 6, 2020)

armyadarkness said:


> In 65 cars, I've never had an alternator bearing go yet... but I guess there's a first time for everything.


i have only seen it once , this was on an alternator off a 65 coupe parted out. That car had sat in a field (where i should have left it…) for at least ten year before i got it. When i put it on my car years ago Noise was identical To video.

ironically it charged fine just made noise, the reman i replaced it with only lasted a little over a year in a garage queen…


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Scott06 said:


> i have only seen it once , this was on an alternator off a 65 coupe parted out. That car had sat in a field (where i should have left it…) for at least ten year before i got it. When i put it on my car years ago Noise was identical To video.
> 
> ironically it charged fine just made noise, the reman i replaced it with only lasted a little over a year in a garage queen…


Mine had a hard life before I got it I assume. It was a multi colored Goat.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Maybe the belt was to tight, I blew out my water pump bearings making the belt to tight trying eliminate a belt squeal.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

Goat noob said:


> Mine had a hard life before I got it I assume. It was a multi colored Goat.
> View attachment 159679


It's a camouflage paint job 😉


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## Scott06 (May 6, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> Mine had a hard life before I got it I assume. It was a multi colored Goat.
> View attachment 159679


Most of the had hard lives….Thats a show car compared to what i was speaking about.… it looked like a shipwreck… the convertible i have now was much better, rust, bondo, primer and two colors depending on the panel. Yours looks good it takes a lot of work to bring them back once they get that roached out…


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Baaad65 said:


> Maybe the belt was to tight, I blew out my water pump bearings making the belt to tight trying eliminate a belt squeal.


It seems like it's more on the loose side. I thought it was the belt at first but it didn't get worse when i cranked the wheel to one side all the way.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Baaad65 said:


> I blew out my water pump bearings making the belt to tight trying eliminate a belt squeal.


Who hasnt?


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> It seems like it's more on the loose side. I thought it was the belt at first but it didn't get worse when i cranked the wheel to one side all the way.


As I said, squeal can be from the belt being too small in width. If the belt width is wrong, which it OFTEN is on a 50 year old car, no amount of tightening will eliminate squeal. 

Back in the old days, people often changed tires, belts, and hoses, indiscriminately, based on "what they had", and not "what was required".


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> Would trying the hole above help your slack I know they look pretty even but it might give you a little more leverage so the pedal is easier, this is where mine is mounted.
> View attachment 159668





Goat noob said:


> I have about 1/4" that I'm not getting out of the pedal. I'll play with it a little to see where I'm going to drill. I put a 1" spacer on it but it didn't seem to make a difference with slack. I was mocking up the bracket below and I can't make it work until I replace my upper rad hose since it's in the way but I don't believe my throttle cable will secure to the rear of the Bracket anyway. I'm sure someday I'll upgrade the throttle cable (sooner rather than later if this doesn't work.
> View attachment 159670


Hey Guys. I've posted this on here before. This is what I'm using for a throttle bracket and it works really well. The cable holder is adjustable and it secured the factory style cable without issue. I'm running a Torker II with a 1" phenolic spacer. The plate goes between the carb and the spacer. The return spring set up also comes from Summit as one of their house named brand parts and came with the bracket.

I was running mine with the factory bracket, same as @Baaad65 , before I installed the spacer and it worked fine. It looked a bit sloppy but was functional. As soon as I installed the spacer, there was not way that the factory bracket would work.



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1419


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jared said:


> Hey Guys. I've posted this on here before. This is what I'm using for a throttle bracket and it works really well. The cable holder is adjustable and it secured the factory style cable without issue. I'm running a Torker II with a 1" phenolic spacer. The plate goes between the carb and the spacer. The return spring set up also comes from Summit as one of their house named brand parts and came with the bracket.
> 
> I was running mine with the factory bracket, same as @Baaad65 , before I installed the spacer and it worked fine. It looked a bit sloppy but was functional. As soon as I installed the spacer, there was not way that the factory bracket would work.
> 
> ...


That should work perfectly with my setup. Thank you for sharing!


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree. It looks unconventional, but excellent. There is no way that is going to bind up or fail. I like it.


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

I guess it's us putting on Holleys where Qjets were that causes the issues, mine was tight I didn't think I'd get the cable into the bracket. I'm still for drilling another hole forward and higher for leverage if that will do it.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Baaad65 said:


> I guess it's us putting on Holleys where Qjets were that causes the issues, mine was tight I didn't think I'd get the cable into the bracket. I'm still for drilling another hole forward and higher for leverage if that will do it.


I think it's a matter of finding something that works. The factory brackets just don't work that well once you start swapping out carbs and manifolds. I'm wondering if you'd run into this issue with a Performer manifold. I had one on a Chevy 305 and the factory bracket fit just like on the original. If I remember correctly, the stock Chevy manifold on an 84 305 looked just like the Performer except for the open plenum (factory had holes)


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jared said:


> I think it's a matter of finding something that works. The factory brackets just don't work that well once you start swapping out carbs and manifolds. I'm wondering if you'd run into this issue with a Performer manifold. I had one on a Chevy 305 and the factory bracket fit just like on the original. If I remember correctly, the stock Chevy manifold on an 84 305 looked just like the Performer except for the open plenum (factory had holes)


I'm running a Performer manifold. I'll let ya know how your throttle bracket works, it'll be here in a few days.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I might be back to where I started with my throttle bracket. I went ahead and installed the throttle bracket from Summit and it will not hold down the cable. I was thinking of drilling the piece with the rotating arm to accommodate the thicker piece of cable. After hearing stories of throttle sticking and experiencing it myself I am open to suggestions. I'm going to buy longer studs for my carb as well. The adapter plate left me with little thread on the current studs.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Goat noob said:


> I might be back to where I started with my throttle bracket. I went ahead and installed the throttle bracket from Summit and it will not hold down the cable. I was thinking of drilling the piece with the rotating arm to accommodate the thicker piece of cable. After hearing stories of throttle sticking and experiencing it myself I am open to suggestions. I'm going to buy longer studs for my carb as well. The adapter plate left me with little thread on the current studs.
> View attachment 159970


That throttle bracket is meant to go on top where the nut is or on the manifold itself, not in-between your carb and spacer. Now whether it will work there is another story. It should also have two secure points so it doesn't swivel.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Also, how many of you have one of those adjustable vacuum cans pictured above? I could never get the one on a Camaro I used to have to adjust, so I ended up putting a standard one, Lemansguy recommended. which help me out with my timing. By the way, anyone heard from him?


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## Baaad65 (Aug 29, 2019)

My idea would be to go back to your stock bracket and drill a new hole in the carb throttle bracket as high and far forward as you can since it only needed a 1/4" of slack taken up correct?


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

RMTZ67 said:


> That throttle bracket is meant to go on top where the nut is or on the manifold itself, not in-between your carb and spacer. Now whether it will work there is another story. It should also have two secure points so it doesn't swivel.



X2 _ that's a vacuum leaking looking to happen and even possibly breaking the corner off the carb when you tighten down the other 3 corners.

Got to have a return spring as well or your carb won't shut.

The pull on the throttle arm on the carb is all about a fulcrum/leverage. You want your cable to connect above and forward of the throttle shaft. Down low and close to the shaft is where you can get into trouble as you won't get enough travel in an arc motion - it will pull straight and at some point it will stop opening the carb. And then this is where the return of the cable can get jammed because it is pulled over center and jammed and is now holding the carb open.

You may have to simply fabricate a small flat piece of steel and drill a couple holes in it so you can bolt it up to the carb bracket and then connect your gas pedal cable to it. You may have to play around with it to make sure your cable pulls the carb fully open. Use some manilla file cardboard to make a template and when it seems right, then transfer that to a piece of flat stock and copy. Use a piece of flat steel as thick as the carb bracket, not light sheet metal. Might use an L-bracket from Home Depot as they have various sizes and then cut it up for a piece of flat stock as needed.

Then get a double return spring on the carb that hooks at the small bottom hole on the carb bracket and to another secure bracket so it pulls the carb shut.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

RMTZ67 said:


> That throttle bracket is meant to go on top where the nut is or on the manifold itself, not in-between your carb and spacer. Now whether it will work there is another story. It should also have two secure points so it doesn't swivel.


The bracket is a one piece bracket and carb plate. It mounts using all 4 carb bolts. I have one on mine and mounted it between the carb and the spacer to keep the geometry of the cable to linkage straight. Looks like @Goat noob 's cable is slightly longer than mine is which could have been contributing to his original issue.


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## RMTZ67 (Mar 12, 2011)

Jared said:


> The bracket is a one piece bracket and carb plate. It mounts using all 4 carb bolts. I have one on mine and mounted it between the carb and the spacer to keep the geometry of the cable to linkage straight. Looks like @Goat noob 's cable is slightly longer than mine is which could have been contributing to his original issue.


Never seen them before.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

RMTZ67 said:


> Also, how many of you have one of those adjustable vacuum cans pictured above? I could never get the one on a Camaro I used to have to adjust, so I ended up putting a standard one, Lemansguy recommended. which help me out with my timing. By the way, anyone heard from him?


adjustable vacuum cans stink. They're adjustable for "how much", but not for "when you get it".

Anywho, yes, he has been off the grid, but we text periodically.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

Goat noob said:


> I might be back to where I started with my throttle bracket. I went ahead and installed the throttle bracket from Summit and it will not hold down the cable. I was thinking of drilling the piece with the rotating arm to accommodate the thicker piece of cable. After hearing stories of throttle sticking and experiencing it myself I am open to suggestions. I'm going to buy longer studs for my carb as well. The adapter plate left me with little thread on the current studs.
> View attachment 159970


Hard to say without being there, but the cab;e mount needs to move further forward on the plate, the cable needs to move back, and a new hole needs to be drilled in the carb. Your cable is not fully extended in that picture. This is easily doable.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

I think I'm going to install my old mount setup and drill a hole in the carb bracket so I get all of my carb opening at WOT. I can use this bracket on one of my other cars I'm sure.


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## armyadarkness (Dec 7, 2020)

These issues often seem confusing, but if you take it slow, think it out, and but the right stuff, youlll be fine.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Sorry that the bracket didn't work for you. Crazy how parts will work fine on one car and not work at all on another that's very similar. Any time you get into these custom applications, a little trial and error is in the cards. It still looks like your cable is quite a bit longer than the one on my car.


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## Goat noob (Apr 16, 2021)

Jared said:


> Sorry that the bracket didn't work for you. Crazy how parts will work fine on one car and not work at all on another that's very similar. Any time you get into these custom applications, a little trial and error is in the cards. It still looks like your cable is quite a bit longer than the one on my car.


No worries. It's in my box of misc carb accessories. It'll find a home soon enough.


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