# Engine oil GONE



## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

I'm new to the forum, and looking to see if anybody else has seen this.

I purchased a new manual shift, 2006 GTO and at 3200 miles, and 6 weeks later, I had a funny sound one day when I started it up. I drove it directly to the dealer about 5 miles away.

After them having it for 2 weeks, they came back and said the sound was the lifters being screwed because of the fact there was NO OIL in the car.

A battle ensued an and the end result was a "GM Engineer" coming back and saying it was my fault, because I didn't check the oil at every gas up like it says in the manual, so we're not going to warranty this. According to them, there was blow by around the pistons, and that is how the oil disappeared. They blamed this on me not knowing how to drive a stick shift, even though I've been driving a stick shift since I was 12 years old. I talked to several mechanics and they all said that if several quarts of oil disappeared by blow by in 6 weeks, there was something wrong with the engine. Not a single one said they have ever heard of such a thing, and two of them specialize in LS1/LS2 engines.

Legal proceedings are pressing forward, but I thought I would see if anyone on this forum have heard of such a thing.


-Tulsa


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## AlanSr (Jan 4, 2008)

I have some experience and knowledge dealing with engines. And an engine does not just "lose" all of it's oil.
Either it was burning it up; but you should have smelled something.
Or you had a pretty bad leak to lose all of it in 2 weeks. 

Either way your oil light should have been on and the performance should have fallen way off.

Just my .2C.


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## AlanSr (Jan 4, 2008)

Also if your engine was burning it, your stick should be stained with burned oil.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Welcome to the forums.
Had you ever checked it? Maybe is was emtey when you picked up the car? Wouldn`t be the first time I herd of a place not putting the oil back in after an oil change.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Welcome to the Forum

I am sure your attorney will do this, but check the new vehicle checklist the dealer should have filled out verifying all is in order before it was sold to you. See if the oil level was checked.

Your check oil light never came on? Service engine light never came on?
Your car didn't have sufficient oil in it to begin with IMO.

You are not the only one to report oil consumption issues.

Good Luck :cheers


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

No engine lights or warnings. No smell or smoke.

No, I never checked it. Looking back, I know I should have right when I got home with the car, but when you buy a car with 40 miles on it, that's not the first thing you think to do. (At least before this happened.) I figured buying a GTO in the 21st century, oil in the car would be a no brainer.

Thanks for the comments, all opinions welcome.


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## Ninjured (Apr 28, 2006)

6 quarts in 3200 miles is extreme

Did they inform you that manual shift GTO's (even though auto's have the same motor) may have an oil consumption problem?
Did they give you a copy of the letter from GM?
How is that they took two weeks to figure out there was no oil in it? 
for the letter--> LS1GTO.com Forums - Oil Consumption Letter from GM


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

Welcome aboard Man. I do wish your introduction was under more pleasant circumstances to say the least!!!

I tend to agree with Rukee, I mean how could you not notice that kind of oil loss? You would have seen it or smelled it for sure. Like the old song says “bring lawyers, guns & money” Best of luck and keep us posted…

BTW – A while back my sister went to Jiffy “no oil in your engine” lube and they did every thing correctly, except they only hand tightened the drain plug, forgot to torque it down. A few miles from home her engine froze, end of story. They were caught and did not put up a fight, never the less a pain in the As* to deal with… Point is they may have just overlooked one of the aspects of the life blood of the car, as did the brain child’s at Jiffy…






Rukee said:


> Welcome to the forums.
> Had you ever checked it? Maybe is was emtey when you picked up the car? Wouldn`t be the first time I herd of a place not putting the oil back in after an oil change.


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

Ninjured said:


> 6 quarts in 3200 miles is extreme
> 
> Did they inform you that manual shift GTO's (even though auto's have the same motor) may have an oil consumption problem?
> Did they give you a copy of the letter from GM?
> ...


I purchased the car in July 2006, I did receive the letter probably a year later.

They came back the next day and said the lifters were bad, but then took another 4 days to tell me there was no oil in the car. Then another week and a half to decide that it was my fault, and that GM would not warranty it.

I am going to purchase a new motor ASAP, can you guys tell me about my options when it comes to the LS2 and LS3?

Where would be the best place to look as far as price?

Thanks again.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Tulsa F. Chapter said:


> I purchased the car in July 2006, I did receive the letter probably a year later.
> 
> They came back the next day and said the lifters were bad, but then took another 4 days to tell me there was no oil in the car. Then another week and a half to decide that it was my fault, and that GM would not warranty it.
> 
> ...


I'm not understanding why you are bringing this up now if it happened 2 years ago.

Not to be devils advocate, but you should have been checking the oil all along. To go 3200 miles without changing the initial oil or never checking it is some negligence on your part. I can understand some of GM's postion that you bear responsibility for part or all of the damage. 

Also if it had no oil in it, Zero quarts and you ran it for 5 miles, the noise must have been aweful. I say you bear some responsibility for driving it with it making the noises. Plus if it was a slow leak you were driving with 1 or 2 quarts for a period of time and the engine wouldn't have been functioning properly at that point and would have been making noises. Why didn't you check it at that point, or get it back to the dealer then?

If you had the proper amount of oil in it, or at least 3 or 4 quarts till the day you started it with no oil, I can understand you not realizing there was something wrong. But the question begs to be asked, what happened to the 3 - 6 quarts that were in the engine??? 

Is there someone that might have sabotaged your car??? If that's the case, then GM shouldn't be at fault, you should be contacting your insurance company.


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

Something does not sound right with this whole deal. No warning light and all of the oil is gone. Either someone did not fill it up or someone has screwed with your ride. Even if the drain plug was loose and leaking, I would imagaine even while driving with it leaking there would be some oil thrown underneath the car that would hit the exhaust and give off some smoke or smell. Maybe you had the radio turned up everytime you have gotten in the car and did not notice the sound? dunno.. If the oil was drained, that ole Mobil 1 must have held up for awhile.


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

fergyflyer said:


> I'm not understanding why you are bringing this up now if it happened 2 years ago.
> 
> Not to be devils advocate, but you should have been checking the oil all along. To go 3200 miles without changing the initial oil or never checking it is some negligence on your part. I can understand some of GM's postion that you bear responsibility for part or all of the damage.


True, I should have checked it but it still stands that oil disappeared.



fergyflyer said:


> Also if it had no oil in it, Zero quarts and you ran it for 5 miles, the noise must have been aweful. I say you bear some responsibility for driving it with it making the noises. Plus if it was a slow leak you were driving with 1 or 2 quarts for a period of time and the engine wouldn't have been functioning properly at that point and would have been making noises. Why didn't you check it at that point, or get it back to the dealer then?


You might want to re-read this thread. The second I heard a noise, I drove to the dealer which was at 3200 miles. No indication of anything wrong until that exact moment.



fergyflyer said:


> If you had the proper amount of oil in it, or at least 3 or 4 quarts till the day you started it with no oil, I can understand you not realizing there was something wrong. But the question begs to be asked, what happened to the 3 - 6 quarts that were in the engine???


That is the question at hand.



fergyflyer said:


> Is there someone that might have sabotaged your car??? If that's the case, then GM shouldn't be at fault, you should be contacting your insurance company.


I don't believe so. I had just moved to this area 4 weeks prior and didn't know a single person.


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Tulsa F. Chapter said:


> I'm new to the forum, and looking to see if anybody else has seen this.
> 
> I purchased a new manual shift, 2006 GTO and at 3200 miles, and 6 weeks later, I had a funny sound one day when I started it up. I drove it directly to the dealer about 5 miles away.
> 
> ...


You're not going to like what I have to say here, but here goes.

I'm using your original post because youdidn't think I read it. 

With the mechanics determining that it was blow by, that means you lost about 1 qt per 600-700 miles. The engine probably had some oil in it when you made it to the dealer and didn't make it to Zero qts. I'm basing this off the belief that an engine would need at least 1 to 1-1/2 qts qts to allow the valves to function properly. With out the valves functioning properly the engine would not run right. That's when you noticed it. 

GM has some fault for the engine having that much blow by. Some may be attributed to your driving style also. But the majority of the fault lays on you. You're the person that didn't check the oil in a 6 week/3200 mile period and that is the main reason your engine failed. If you would have caught it early on, at say 1000 miles and added the quart and a half that were missing, and then checked again and found it was low again, they could have done an oil consumption test and solved the problem before the engine was destroyed. 

I have heard of some of the 2001 LS1's having excessive blow by and I know a guy that used a quart of oil every 6-700 miles in his 01 Vette. GM offered to install new rings, but he didn't want them to open the engine up and drove it to over 120,000 mile before trading it in a month ago for a new Vette. 

So yes I have heard of it. The difference between his situation and yours is that he followed the owners manual and common sense and checked his oil. 

I think for you to be using a lawyer to go after GM for your failure to check your oil is part of what's wrong with our entire society right now. *No personal responsibility*. 

Sorry if it offends you, but that's my opinion. 

People buy houses they can't afford and when the market goes bust they blame the bank for offering a creative way to finance them. They blame the real estate agent for talking them into too much house. They knew the risks and if the market wouldn't have busted they would have been happy. 

Women have children with no way to support them and it's somehow my responsibility to pay taxes to support them for the rest of their life. 

People buy cars and don't check the oil once in 3200 miles and they feel that I and the rest of the people on this forum should have to pay higher prices when we buy a car for their failures. 

Sorry no sympathy from me. I think you should be a man and own up to your mistakes and learn from them.


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

fergyflyer said:


> You're not going to like what I have to say here, but here goes.
> 
> I'm using your original post because youdidn't think I read it.
> 
> ...


That part of your post was sufficient. You should have stopped there.



fergyflyer said:


> The difference between his situation and yours is that he followed the owners manual and common sense and checked his oil.


I've already admitted I was wrong for not doing so. On the flip side, I've owned nothing but GM products my entire life, and have no problem with any of the engines, even at 218,000 miles. There is a problem with this LS2 engine whether I checked the oil at 1000 miles or 3200 miles. *That* is why I'm pressing forward with legal proceedings.



fergyflyer said:


> I think for you to be using a lawyer to go after GM for your failure to check your oil is part of what's wrong with our entire society right now. *No personal responsibility*.
> 
> Sorry if it offends you, but that's my opinion.


I should have checked the oil level, but something *HAS TO BE WRONG* for the oil to disappear and the car show no indication of any problems.



fergyflyer said:


> People buy houses they can't afford and when the market goes bust they blame the bank for offering a creative way to finance them. They blame the real estate agent for talking them into too much house. They knew the risks and if the market wouldn't have busted they would have been happy.
> 
> Women have children with no way to support them and it's somehow my responsibility to pay taxes to support them for the rest of their life.
> 
> ...


The first part of your post was helpful, and I thank you for it. The second half of you post you're grasping at straws. You know nothing about me or my situation, other than what I've put on this forum. (there's more to it pertaining to the dealership, which I am not willing to post at this time) 

Take your blanket judgments and shove 'em up your ass.

And I don't give a fvck if this offends you or not.

I'm looking for facts, not opinions. (or your sympathy)


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## silversport (Mar 23, 2007)

Take your blanket judgments and shove 'em up your ass.

And I don't give a fvck if this offends you or not.

I'm looking for facts, not opinions. (or your sympathy)

You were acting like a class act until you wrote that...sad...sorry for your engine loss.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Good Luck on getting a positive outcome on your problem.

Your car's computer failed to warn you on low oil by NOT giving you a service engine light, or check oil light. Granted you never checked it, if this car had an oil pressure gauge you could visibly see instead of relying on a computer which failed to notify you, you may have been spared. I'd rather have the ole' dial gauge I can see.


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## PDQ GTO (Jun 21, 2007)

I am surprised that post made it through???

You were acting like a class act until you wrote that...sad...sorry for your engine loss.[/QUOTE]


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

I came here looking for facts and suggestions, not for some jackoff to preach to me about morons that buy a house out of their means, or have 98 kids and live on welfare.

I'm not in that group.

Something is wrong with my engine no matter if I caught it at 1,000 miles or 3,200 miles. That's the bottom line.

If you want to say I'm not a "class act" for that last post, go right ahead. I'm here to look for facts and suggests on oil disappearing from an LS2 motor, I'm *NOT HERE* for people to give me attitude and project blanket judgments upon me. If you're going to come at me like that when I'm just looking for help, you can expect a reply that not going to be "rainbows and lollipops."

If you want to talk about politics, let's take this to another forum.

*NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND?*

GTO Judge, thank you and good point. Never thought of it that way, but that is true.

I'm talking to a guy tomorrow about installing an LS3 or LS7, so if any of you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it. One thing I've wondered... is the extra $$$ worth the extra HP? Or should I just go bolt on with the LS2?

Thanks again.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

If Pontiac will warrant an upgraded motor and you have the $ to do so, I'd upgrade it. Or if you go with an LS2 motor with GM mods they should warrant it.

Case in point: Some local guy with an 05' (I think) down shifted missed 3rd and got 1st. He had pieces of his car all over the road. The owner cried warranty. The dealer had a GM rep come in and inspect the engine. The dealer knows this guy was racing it and the rep was informed but the inspection of the motor by the rep could not prove it. There were no signs of racing it in the motor and GM replaced the motor under warranty. This guy upgraded parts in the new motor with GM parts and GM warranted it. He had different upgrades maybe a stroker I cannot recall but I do recall an overhead cam. My service adviser fired the car up for me and man did it sound mean and the cam lope was awesome.

That guy lucked out. I'd inquire about different options with your dealer.


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

GTO JUDGE said:


> If Pontiac will warrant an upgraded motor and you have the $ to do so, I'd upgrade it. Or if you go with an LS2 motor with GM mods they should warrant it.
> 
> Case in point: Some local guy with an 05' (I think) down shifted missed 3rd and got 1st. He had pieces of his car all over the road. The owner cried warranty. The dealer had a GM rep come in and inspect the engine. The dealer knows this guy was racing it and the rep was informed but the inspection of the motor by the rep could not prove it. There were no signs of racing it in the motor and GM replaced the motor under warranty. This guy upgraded parts in the new motor with GM parts and GM warranted it. He had different upgrades maybe a stroker I cannot recall but I do recall an overhead cam. My service adviser fired the car up for me and man did it sound mean and the cam lope was awesome.
> 
> That guy lucked out. I'd inquire about different options with your dealer.


*WOW.*

That's amazing.

At this point, I'm fitting the bill for the new motor and going reclaim $$$ in the legal battle. So is an LS3/LS7 worth the extra $$$ vs. putting an LS2 in and adding bolt ons?


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## fergyflyer (Apr 18, 2005)

Tulsa F. Chapter said:


> I came here looking for facts and suggestions, not for some jackoff to preach to me about morons that buy a house out of their means, or have 98 kids and live on welfare.
> 
> I'm not in that group.
> 
> ...


If you can't communicate without swearing, I know what kind of a person I'm dealing with. 

Did you get your powerball ticket today??? How's the trailer park????

Again people like you that sue over something that is their own fault are just like welfare crack queens. 

If you would have checked the oil like you are supposed to, you would not be in the situation you are in. 

Sorry about your luck, but you are the cause of your own problems.


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

fergyflyer said:


> If you can't communicate without swearing, I know what kind of a person I'm dealing with.


You're dealing with somebody that swears. *HOW DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING DO DO WITH THE SUBJECT AT HAND?*



fergyflyer said:


> Did you get your powerball ticket today??? How's the trailer park????
> 
> Again people like you that sue over something that is their own fault are just like welfare crack queens.


Now who's being childish? 

Are you saying that people that buy lotto tickets are trailer trash? I wonder how many people on this forum alone you just called trailer trash...?

By the way, do you think somebody that lives in a trailer park can buy a GTO with cash and drop a brand new motor in with cash? Like I said earlier, you know nothing about me.

Plz leave this thread to the adults Frankie.



fergyflyer said:


> If you would have checked the oil like you are supposed to, you would not be in the situation you are in.
> 
> Sorry about your luck, but you are the cause of your own problems.


I caused my own problems? I didn't cause the oil to disappear in this engine. It's my fault that I didn't catch it, but it's not my fault that something is wrong with the engine that cause the oil to disappear.

By the way, you said yourself....



fergyflyer said:


> But the question begs to be asked, what happened to the 3 - 6 quarts that were in the engine???


That is the *ROOT* of the issue here.


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## Tulsa F. Chapter (May 13, 2008)

*Moving on...

I would love to hear from anybody else on this subject.

Plz excuse Frankie and myself throwing the ball back and forth. That was the last thing I wanted to do on this forum.

I came here simply looking for any help I could get. *


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## NJG8GT (Nov 14, 2007)

GTO JUDGE said:


> Good Luck on getting a positive outcome on your problem.
> 
> Your car's computer failed to warn you on low oil by NOT giving you a service engine light, or check oil light. Granted you never checked it, if this car had an oil pressure gauge you could visibly see instead of relying on a computer which failed to notify you, you may have been spared. I'd rather have the ole' dial gauge I can see.


Yes Judge, the pod has a nice easy to read oil pressure gauge which is always in your line of sight. Just one day, maybe one day you will see yourself!:lol:


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Tulsa F. Chapter said:


> *WOW.*
> 
> That's amazing.
> 
> At this point, I'm fitting the bill for the new motor and going reclaim $$$ in the legal battle. So is an LS3/LS7 worth the extra $$$ vs. putting an LS2 in and adding bolt ons?



I really don't know the difference in $$ between the 3 motors. IMO if the gains are not substantial for the difference in price, modding out the LS2 may net you some decent results. The LS7 has some serious HP then modding that out will really get you great results but it would come down to how much money do you want to fork out.


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

If your car was parked where it was accessible at night, it would seem to me that it wouldn't be unreasonable to suppose some ass****s might have drained your oil just for the sake of being ass****s. I can't find too much fault on your part in figuring the engine came full of oil and that a new engine wouldn't use much (any) in the first 6K. GM is probably going to refer to the manual which specifies checking the oil level every time you get gas. It's one of those unfortunate situations that probably won't be resolved to anyone's complete satisfaction. Sorry it happened to you.


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Gotagoat said:


> If your car was parked where it was accessible at night, it would seem to me that it wouldn't be unreasonable to suppose some ass****s might have drained your oil just for the sake of being ass****s. I can't find too much fault on your part in figuring the engine came full of oil and that a new engine wouldn't use much (any) in the first 6K. GM is probably going to refer to the manual which specifies checking the oil level every time you get gas. It's one of those unfortunate situations that probably won't be resolved to anyone's complete satisfaction. Sorry it happened to you.


I don`t think anyone would drain the oil, break off a mirror...pop out a side window...slash a tire....key a door, yeah I could see someone randomly doing those quick, but drain the oil?? You can`t even get under the car without a jack can you?


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## Mike_V (Mar 10, 2006)

Everyone's assuming the engine had no oil. Who knows what was done at the dealer. Maybe one guy drained it at the end of the first day and another mechanic came in the next day and started it to diagnose the issue - causing the problem.

If you think about it, it did run well enough to make it to the dealer, the oil warning light did not come on, and, initially, they didn't mention no oil. In a busy shop this is very possible.


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## 6QTS11OZ (Mar 27, 2005)

Mike_V said:


> Everyone's assuming the engine had no oil. Who knows what was done at the dealer. Maybe one guy drained it at the end of the first day and another mechanic came in the next day and started it to diagnose the issue - causing the problem.
> 
> If you think about it, it did run well enough to make it to the dealer, the oil warning light did not come on, and, initially, they didn't mention no oil. In a busy shop this is very possible.


I'm with you on this one. I think the dealership is pulling a fast one here.


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## Gotagoat (Jan 6, 2006)

Rukee said:


> I don`t think anyone would drain the oil, break off a mirror...pop out a side window...slash a tire....key a door, yeah I could see someone randomly doing those quick, but drain the oil?? You can`t even get under the car without a jack can you?


I agree that it's less likely than most other options but it's such an odd situation that little can be ruled out. Sure, someone would have to jack up a side but some vandals will work harder to screw up someone's property than they will to feed their own children. I recall one member who had all four wheels stolen and found his car sitting on blocks. Granted those ass****s got more than satisfaction from that incident but these days, who knows...


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## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

They left his truck on blocks cause they stole the rims and tires, I doubt someone ripped him off for his oil !
It seems more likely to me that there was no oil to begin with, prolly had just a quart or so when they assemble them. I dunno. Seems very weird that the oil light also doesn`t work. It does appear suspicious, no doubt.


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