# WT update



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

I got a call from the machine shop today. He said the castings aren't the best to start with but they are all savable....:cool The block will most likely need a .060 oversize to eliminate the rust but a bigger bore means more cubes.... He had to let it all soak in the hot tank for 3 days to get it clean enough to check closely and mag but there are no cracks in the block or heads. Crank is good too but will need a 10/10 grind to clean the rust. He is going to work up a cost for all the machine work to the block. The heads will need everything. Hardened seats, guides and all new valves plus whatever springs I need for the cam I choose. This is going to turn into an expensive build and I told him I'm not in a position to do that yet. I need to get a body and frame ready first....:willy:


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Sweet! Mines .060 over too. :cool :cheers


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Rukee, are you back full time now ? :seeya:


----------



## Gator67 (Jun 17, 2009)

Glad to hear your WT is OK. Just curious as to why you would have the original crank reconditioned. I'm having my WS done soon, and was planning on going with a new crank. I wouldn't think a new crank would cost significantly more than getting the work done on the old crank. Plus, I thought it made sense to replace a 42 year old part that's always under stress. Just wondering if I would be making a mistake for some reason.


----------



## Koppster (Jul 27, 2008)

Good news Mitch, glad to hear it wasn't a total loss...you deserve a break!

Rick


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

Too Many Projects said:


> Rukee, are you back full time now ? :seeya:


As long as this re- "refurbished" DELL laptop doesn't take another crap!!
2+ months to get it fixxed was a little over the top.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Great news, Mitch. Glad it can be saved. .060" is about the last overbore for that block without sleeving. 10-10 on the crank is excellent....that's the minimum cut fro clean-up...you should have great clearances. In my opinion, the factory, made-in-America-when-America-kicked-ass Pontiac crank is of much better quality and materials than all but the most expensive full race stuff made today. Most cranks are made in China, and I've heard horror stories. I would MUCH rather run a real Pontiac crank myself. One step at a time. I went thru the same "head dilemma" that you're faceing with my '67: it needed everything. My "valve job" ended up costing me about $1100. I hope the labor rates are better up there!


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Gator67 said:


> Glad to hear your WT is OK. Just curious as to why you would have the original crank reconditioned. I'm having my WS done soon, and was planning on going with a new crank. I wouldn't think a new crank would cost significantly more than getting the work done on the old crank. Plus, I thought it made sense to replace a 42 year old part that's always under stress. Just wondering if I would be making a mistake for some reason.


Like geeteeohguy says below, the original crank checked out good and would be just fine to run again. The only reason I would replace it at this time would be for a stroker kit for more cubes. Totally undecided about that right now. 



Koppster said:


> Good news Mitch, glad to hear it wasn't a total loss...you deserve a break!
> 
> Rick


Thanks Rick .....:cheers



Rukee said:


> As long as this re- "refurbished" DELL laptop doesn't take another crap!!
> 2+ months to get it fixxed was a little over the top.


Mine blew 2 capacitors on the vid card about the same time yours went down. It took 1 1/2 weeks to get a correct card for it cause it's so old. I could still use mine for a while at a time and then when it froze up, I let it cool down for an hour. I'm looking at building a new computer from parts this winter.



geeteeohguy said:


> Great news, Mitch. Glad it can be saved. .060" is about the last overbore for that block without sleeving. 10-10 on the crank is excellent....that's the minimum cut fro clean-up...you should have great clearances. In my opinion, the factory, made-in-America-when-America-kicked-ass Pontiac crank is of much better quality and materials than all but the most expensive full race stuff made today. Most cranks are made in China, and I've heard horror stories. I would MUCH rather run a real Pontiac crank myself. One step at a time. I went thru the same "head dilemma" that you're faceing with my '67: it needed everything. My "valve job" ended up costing me about $1100. I hope the labor rates are better up there!


Hmmmm...... I thought these blocks could go out to at least .080. Taking it to the limit the first time doesn't make me happy. If I decide to leave the stroke stock, I will use this crank. The heads are gonna run at least that here too. All new seats, guides, cut for full seals, new valves, springs, shims, mill, deck, square.....etc. Yeah, it goes thru the roof.  Remember when you got the block bored, new pistons, rings, bearings and the heads ground for about $350.....


----------



## Eric Animal (Oct 28, 2007)

If you are gonna bore, might as well go all the way (.060) still have to buy pistons, etc........and we all know "THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTION FOR CU.INS....


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I always go the minimum on an overbore. It's like taking the shallowest cut on a brake drum or rotor: why use up all the service life in one fell swoop? If you go .030, then .040, then .060, you can get three overhauls out of one block...if you get custom pisons, you can go .035, .045, etc. I bored a 389 .060" over once because I had to to get it to clean up. It did run hotter (temp) than my .030 engine (thinner cyl walls), but it put out a lot of power! Mitch, take heart in the fact that with the .060 overbore, you can get 200,000 miles on that build if you do it right....100,000 if you do it so-so. At $3 plus dollars a gallon for premium, you'll be a very old man before you need to worry about sleeving that block!!! Enjoy.


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

That's one thing I like about Chevy BBs. .060" is half way to what you can safely bore.


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

geeteeohguy said:


> Mitch, take heart in the fact that with the .060 overbore, you can get 200,000 miles on that build if you do it right. You'll be a very old man before you need to worry about sleeving that block!!! Enjoy.


I'm allowed 3,000 miles a year on my collector plates. 200k divided by 3k is 66.67 years. Hmmm.....I'd be in the neighborhood of 124 then.....:rofl:
You're right Jeff, it will be OK and last as long as I ever have it. It just bugs me that it WAS a stone original engine that needs to be bored that far because of neglect.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I know, but we see it all the time. One thing to wear something out, another to see something destroyed through neglect. It's the little things that seem to bother me, too!


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

If it's just one hole that has to go to .060" over to clean it up, perhaps the shop could keep the others at a smaller overbore and just sleave that one cyl?


----------



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Rukee said:


> If it's just one hole that has to go to .060" over to clean it up, perhaps the shop could keep the others at a smaller overbore and just sleave that one cyl?


:agree you may want to consider sonic testing the cylinders prior to boring,


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

Rukee said:


> If it's just one hole that has to go to .060" over to clean it up, perhaps the shop could keep the others at a smaller overbore and just sleave that one cyl?


Come to think of it, I believe he said there was only one that he didn't think would be good at .040. I'll keep that in mind when it comes time to do the work.:cheers



05GTO said:


> :agree you may want to consider sonic testing the cylinders prior to boring,


Does that measure the thickness of the walls to see how much can be removed ?


----------



## 05GTO (Oct 6, 2004)

Too Many Projects said:


> Does that measure the thickness of the walls to see how much can be removed ?


Yes,


----------



## Too Many Projects (Nov 15, 2008)

05GTO said:


> Yes,


Cool......:cool I'll check into that...


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Mitch, in my past experience with these engines, they run a bit hot temperature -wise the more they're bored out. I think .060 will be fine, though. Remember, you can sleeve the whole thing when you're 124 and start all over again!


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

I had considered the same thing but was told you can not sleave ALL the cyls. The block is too weak to overbore ALL the holes.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

Good point, Rukee. I don't know enough about machine work to make the call. Anybody? It would be good to know this kind of info. They ain't building these blocks anymore! (numbers matching, anyway)


----------



## Gator67 (Jun 17, 2009)

I seem to recall a thread in the performance years "race" forum on the issue of sleeving all 8. One of the later posts in the thread reported no problems doing this with a Pontiac block.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I guess Butler Performance or Wallace racing, etc. would know for sure. I'd be willing to bet all 8 can be sleeved on a Poncho block. We'll find out sooner or later...........


----------



## Rukee (Feb 8, 2007)

...another thing to ask them, if all 8 are sleaved, what's the new max overbore? Will a sleaved engine be able to be bored more then 0.60"?


----------

