# 1970 Lemans with Ram Air IV ???



## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

I recently picked up a solid 1970 Lemans on a trip to Baltimore ... To my surprise when i lifted the hood there was the Ram Air IV ... I snapped it up and quickly did some vin decoding and sure enough it had a 1 right after the B in the vin which makes it an 8cyl with undr 100,000 produced ... can any body give me any info on this car VIN 235370B137196 ... Thanks


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Sixfigures7 said:


> I recently picked up a solid 1970 Lemans on a trip to Baltimore ... To my surprise when i lifted the hood there was the Ram Air IV ... I snapped it up and quickly did some vin decoding and sure enough it had a 1 right after the B in the vin which makes it an 8cyl with undr 100,000 produced ... can any body give me any info on this car VIN 235370B137196 ... Thanks


This is the car? Sell used 1970 Pontiac LeMans - True American Muscle Car - Possible GTO Judge Clone in Ellicott City, Maryland, United States, for US $7,250.00


What makes you think its a R/A IV? Only one engine pic can't tell from the pic. No R/A IV was ever factory installed in a Lemans no Ram Air was ever on a Lemans. That 1 has no bearing on whether it would be a Ram Air. 

If that is indeed a R/A motor in it you have stumbled onto a gold mine of a motor. Someone installed it. Check the Stampings on the motor the heads etc. This is where you want to be looking. I seriously doubt its a Ram air motor let alone a IV. WW manual XP auto trans is R/A IV engine code letters.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Whoa - hold on there cowboy. Id'ing a real Ram Air IV takes a lot more than a decal or two. There are some engine codes that you're going to need to check - *in this order.*
1) Engine date code - 4 character code - top rear center of the block next to the distributor hole.
2) Engine casting number - passenger side rear of the block, down low below the head, near the transmission mount flange - 7 digit number that should begin with 979
3) 2 character engine code, passenger side front of the block, just underneath the head. 1970 RA IV will be either WW or XP.
4) Cylinder heads. Center two exhaust ports will be Round - not D-shaped like 99% of all the other Pontiac engines. Cylinder head code for Ram Air IV heads will be found on top of the drivers side FRONT exhaust port. 1969 is 722, 1970 is 614.

If all those numbers line up, then yep - you've got yourself a Ram Air IV engine and are one lucky dude.
If not, then post back what all those codes are and we'll help you ID what it really is.

Also, be aware of a couple things:
* Ram Air IV intake manifolds were 2-piece units. The manifold itself was aluminum, the exhaust crossover (part in the center of the manifold that runs between the two heads and goes under the carburetor) was a separate piece and was made out of case iron. Regular Pontiac intakes are all one piece and made out of cast iron.
* A/C wasn't an available option on Ram Air IV cars, not from the factory anyway.

Bear


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

Funny, as I was responding to this thread Milt Schornack called me and during the course of our conversation I mentioned this car to him and read it from the ad. WTF he said. I'd bet against it he said. LOL.

Stranger things have happened. If someone did indeed dump a R/A IV in this, I'd love to know the motivation for it in a 235 car. The motor alone is worth more than the asking price of the car.


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

Ok well guys , I appreciate the attack/assault ... I thought this is why forums exist so that riddles like this can be solved by guys that have knowledge on the subject ... I know everything you guys have mentioned , I am beyond your average collector of classics ... I do believe it to be a Ram air 1. Because it has Ram Air IV 4 air cleaner
2. The Carb 3. The fact this thing is a rip roaring monster ... So gentleman I appreciate the crucifixion guess ill just get dirty and check off the list ... Just thought maybe somebody had some info ... Hope it's a Real Ram and post pics but I won't gloat , ill just Goat ... Thx Fellas


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

I bought the car for $4000 ... I'm not worried either way


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

MD title has A. For actual mileage listed at 22,395 if that makes you hate me anymore


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)




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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)




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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

That's not a Ram Air IV air cleaner. The 400-4 means 400 - 4 Barrel. The "Ram Air" underneath just means - Ram Air. But... the car doesn't have a Ram Air system on it. There's no lower pan, seal, upper pan, open scoops --- none of the components of a Ram Air system. All you've got there is a chrome air cleaner top with a sticker on it.

HOWEVER - if you'll check what I said again, I didn't say that it can't be a Ram Air IV engine - I can't tell that one way or the other from the photos in the ad. All I did was provide you the information to make that determination yourself. If it is, then I'll say it again - you're one lucky dude.

Bear


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

Bear the car your referencing in the link above is not the car I bought ...


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Duh - of course. Sorry. It's been a long day. Pontiac Southern Nationals was today and I'm just a we bit wore out....

how about some photos of your engine? I do love me some round ports...

Bear


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

I think you have misinterpreted what other members have said above. They are trying to help you. There are a ton of fakes out there. Pictures of the engine and the numbers Bear asked about would help considerably.

As a side note; Are you sure the posted car isn't the one you bought? To me, too many similarities. The black one you posted looks just like the one in the add with a paint job. It has the same 1990's era American Racing wheels, Ram Air hood, same miles, supposed ram air engine, and is in the Maryland area. I would seriously doubt any claimed 22K original even if it is listed on a state title. That can easily be overlooked especially if the car has been sold across state lines.


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

I ran that VIN and that link came up with the VIN number. I just did it again and a white one keeps popping up.. a pic of a black one is not the one associated with the one in the add I linked NOR one that sold on ebay in 2013.

As I stated.... if that does indeed have a RA IV in it someone duped it in and you will have a prize. Wheels look the same, appears it was painted black.


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

OK so now im thinking it isnt even a LeMans but a Tempest ... 

Vin Reads 235370B137196

Is the 35 a Tempest Custom ?


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

The white one has green interior this car is black interior also my block is not painted blue its original and doesnt have junk yellow wires ... I note the similarities but we just took the car down to get stripped prepped primed and didnt find any white paint ... THis car is goin to the Oct 24 classic car auction in Atlantic CIty Nj ... Any suggestions on which way to go with this car will be considered .... Carousel Red with Rallys ?


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## 666bbl (Apr 13, 2014)

Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot...!

The painted bumper and header has to rank somewhere in the top 10 ugliest Pontiacs list. It looks like one of those fake big nose and glasses get ups that folks wear on holloween. Do you have regular 70 GTO front facia? If so, run it to the paint shop like yesterday! I don't like to dis other cars in open forums but...:eek2:


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

I agree there triple six 
dropped it off the the day after i picked her up , thats why I havent been able to get pics of the motor on here for you guys ... 
she should be back to me by the weekend 
and thats why im asking for suggestions 
on paint/wheels etc since shes going to auction in less than 3 weeks ...


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## Sixfigures7 (Sep 27, 2014)

I honestly think that its a Tempest with a factory ordered 400

someone please help me solve this riddle ?


Akron Apparition - 1970 Pontiac Tempest Magnum 400 | Hemmings Motor News


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

23537 is a Tempest Custom Tempest Lemans as you will know by Vin decoding. 

If I may suggest: Get the PHS on it. This will answer your questions. You own the car it would be beneficial to you to know its birth rights. PHS Historic Services

You can get suggestions and opinions on here but those documents will dispel any questions.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

What Judge said. Get the PHS docs first. You will know exactly what the car was 'born' with, and what model it was.


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## Jared (Apr 19, 2013)

Agreed on the front bumper as well. If the numbers match up, I would paint to original and re-chrome the front and back(?). You'll retain the most value especially if the car is a one off special order. If not, I have always been a sucker for a red head. Good luck!


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## Orion88 (Apr 24, 2012)

If the chrome is still under the paint you might get lucky and be able to use paint stripper. It won't remove the chrome. Not sure how well it will work but it might be worth a shot.


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## 70 lemans 462 (May 3, 2015)

Just cam across this post on line. It is funny to hear this guy talk about the 1970 Lemans. I own this car now and he did not have a clue to what it was. But also did not want to admit he was wrong about anything as when I talk to him when I bought it he was not totally honest. It was born as a 1970 Lemans 400 4 Barrel with turbo 350 trans 2:73 open rear with bench seat Colum shift and tachometer option. It was built in Baltimore Md. When you guys ask for pics of under the hood you did not get them because it is the white car you mentioned in the first post and under the hood did not change yellow wires and all. It was red originally then white and then two tone gray black and now 1970 Phantom Gray witch looks nice. The block was cracked when I got it and it did not run well so him saying it went like a bat out of hell was ??? maybe his other car is a Toyota Prius. Filled the street with smoke and steam from the exhaust.


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## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

70 lemans 462 said:


> Just cam across this post on line. It is funny to hear this guy talk about the 1970 Lemans. I own this car now and he did not have a clue to what it was. But also did not want to admit he was wrong about anything as when I talk to him when I bought it he was not totally honest. It was born as a 1970 Lemans 400 4 Barrel with turbo 350 trans 2:73 open rear with bench seat Colum shift and tachometer option. It was built in Baltimore Md. When you guys ask for pics of under the hood you did not get them because it is the white car you mentioned in the first post and under the hood did not change yellow wires and all. It was red originally then white and then two tone gray black and now 1970 Phantom Gray witch looks nice. The block was cracked when I got it and it did not run well so him saying it went like a bat out of hell was ??? maybe his other car is a Toyota Prius. Filled the street with smoke and steam from the exhaust.


Thanks for that update and clearing it all up for us. You never know if one is a BS artist or just lacks the knowledge and makes too many assumptions based on mixed beliefs.:thumbsup:


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## 70 lemans 462 (May 3, 2015)

PontiacJim said:


> Thanks for that update and clearing it all up for us. You never know if one is a BS artist or just lacks the knowledge and makes too many assumptions based on mixed beliefs.:thumbsup:


Anyway it's in a better place and being brought back to life. I pulled the rear and replaced with 10.5 rear fully rebuilt with Moser axels Eaton posi unit with 3:36 gears. Global West swing arms upper and lower with all new bushings.

Rebuilt motor

1974 – 400 Block Casting 481988
1978 – 6X Heads 95cc cleanup on runners & bowl work. 
Valves stock Int. 211 Exh. 1.66
Comp Cams 51 -224-4 Duration 274/286 Lift 488/491
Comp Cams lifters 995 – 16
Ohio forged 4.21 crank making 462 CI. From Kauffman Racing.
Eagle forged rods from Kauffman Racing.
Ross .080 over flat top pistons. 9.4 – 1 from Kauffman Racing.
Clevet race bearings. From Kauffman Racing.
Mellings HV oil pump.
Edlebrock 110 Gal. per hour mechanical fuel pump.
Torquer 2 open plenum intake Port matched to heads.
Demon 1000 race carburetor.
Malory Fire eye distributer. 
PRW HV water pump.

TCI Turbo 400 trans
1350 universal joints and driveshaft.

1.34'' 28'' headers with 3'' exhaust through race mufflers. 

That's all I have done so far. Will post some pics of the car soon.


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