# Fender lip rolling for 285/295 tire size



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

just purchased an easwood company tool to roll my rear fender lips to fit 285. it should be here within a week. do you guys have any pointers to do the job right the first time? i hear i have to heat it up pretty good so the paint does not crack. 

here is a link with instructions on how to do it.
http://www.rollyourfender.com/instruction.html

i made a cut in the middle of the fender on the lip, seen in pic below. by cutting the lip halfway, so it does not bind in the middle when you roll the fender, and this way the lip will be able to roll more without much pressure on the fender body and will lower the pressure on paint cracking.









so here is the deal, i will just use it for 2 rear wheels, if someone is interested i can sell this tool to them for 220 after i'm done. i paid 250, so you save some money as well.
eastwood company fender lip roller tool for sale


----------



## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

I'd be willing to rent it from you once your done. No interest in buying it though.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

if you were closer to me i would rent it to you, but paying shipping and then once again if i sell it to someone, too much hassle and i will be loseing more money.

this way if you get it, you can sell it to someone else and you will end up spenging less money than by renting it.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Don't heat the paint up too much or you'll blister it. Really nice and warm like it was sitting in the sun is good. Don't try to do too much at once. Adjust the roller angle in very small increments and roll back and forth a few times before adjusting it some more. Slightly rewarm before the next pass. After getting my car up on jack stands and getting both wheels off it took me about 45 minutes to do both sides. 

I would not try to take it flat. The farther you go the more you run the risk of pushing the fender out, cracking the paint and wrinkling things. You want to get it rolled between the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock position on the fender. Getting the lip up on about a 45* angle should be enough. You can test the fit by taking off your lower shock bolt and removing the springs. Put the wheel on and articulate the wheel up and down to check for static rub. As the wheel goes up it tips in so that's why you don't need to flatten the lip.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

cool, thank you, i will keep this in mind. the last thing i wanna do is damage the outside fender. i was also thinking of making one cut in the middle with a sheet saw, this way it will roll easier and further without much pressure. and, the lip will not wrinkle and push the fender out. i think it's a good idea, what say you.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

firebird said:


> cool, thank you, i will keep this in mind. the last thing i wanna do is damage the outside fender. i was also thinking of making one cut in the middle with a sheet saw, this way it will roll easier and further without much pressure. and, the lip will not wrinkle and push the fender out. i think it's a good idea, what say you.


I like the thinking but I wouldn't do it. You may find that it will make a crease on the fender where the cut is as there would be a weak spot there when you apply outward pressure. Just take your time and don't over do it and you'll do fine.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

i am just waiting on the tool to arrive now, should be here today. i updated the first post with a pic and i did make a small cut, half of the lip. the job seems like it's going to be an easy one and shouldn't take much time either.

looking at the toe, it seems like it's adjustable, not sure if this is the oem camber adjuster or it came with the vehicle. if someone can please look and see if they have the same bolt i would appriciate it. if i need further camber adjustment, i hope not but will see after the lip has been rolled, it should be very simple. pics below.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

That's the toe adjuster. I see you did it anyways. I'd watch the outside of the fender very closely when you're doing it. After you start to "roll it up" it's going to push outward on the fender. You've created an uneven resistance with a weak point in the middle by doing that cut. Good luck.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

Ladies and gents, the lips are gone, not 45 degrees as some of you state, but flat out. no damage to the outside, the paint seems ok. i expected to be a lot easier. took about a bit more than 2 hours for both wheels. highly satisfied. dont have time to test it yet......

But the tool is for sale, anyone interested let me know 220 shipped. save some money. no damage to the tool at all. few marks and scratches on the roller but it seems like it's in brand new condition.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

also if you want the lip flat out, i made 4 5 cuts on the lip. you see if you dont cut it, there needs to be more pressure on the lip, and another thing is you can not get the lip flat out without cutting it because the steel will not strech where it arches on the fender. you can only roll it so much.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm glad it worked out for you altho cutting kind of takes away one of the reasons for rolling instead of just grinding the lips off. I hope you carefully prep and paint the cuts so it doesn't rust.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

yeah i'll do paint and clear coat from inside. no big deal as i am getting the full space clearance. i am waiting for lovells springs to show. i figured since i have the car up in the air and wheels off i might as well change springs. i wonder though if i should get the camber adjusting kit from lovells. what do you think? did you mess with camber on yours, did you have to adjust it.

you are running 285, what type of springs you have on them and are they stock height or lowered? are you haveing any rubbing issues while driving, people in the back, cornering, gas paddle to the floor, and so on?


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

My 285s are probably about the same width as your 295s. Nittos run narrow tread widths. They're on 9" wide wheels with the offset adjusted to +55mm. I have Lovells 20mm drops all around (-.78"). All of my bushings are replaced with poly ones including the inner and outer control arms and my rear camber is -1.4º or less .The fenders are mildly rolled and I get no rubbing under any conditions, even on hard cornering or compressions to the bump stops.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

hey thanks svede, great info. i guess the camber does miracles for these cars.

ok today, i took the closer look at the driver side and spent more time under it.after one and a half hour of careful measuring, i was able to tuck the driver side inside the fender lip and is now same as the passanger side. i jacked the control arm all the way up as possible and the wheel tucks inside the fender and turns with 3mm to spare, tire away from the fender body of the car. this is beautiful, i highly doubt that the tire will ever get that far inside with lovells spring, stock height, but figured safety never hurts. by thursday i should have the car on the road and test drive it.

my goal is to have the wheel hub shaved, not sure if this is a good idea or not, but i'm researching it. with 6mm shaved, i have a feeling i could tuck 305 nittos, and especially if they are running a bit smaller than other brands 305, because i have good inch away from the control arm.


----------



## sik goat (Aug 20, 2010)

damn.. 285 would be tits.


----------



## ROBSGTO (Jul 6, 2008)

svede1212 said:


> My 285s are probably about the same width as your 295s. Nittos run narrow tread widths. They're on 9" wide wheels with the offset adjusted to +55mm. I have Lovells 20mm drops all around (-.78"). All of my bushings are replaced with poly ones including the inner and outer control arms and my rear camber is -1.4º or less .The fenders are mildly rolled and I get no rubbing under any conditions, even on hard cornering or compressions to the bump stops.


What tires do you have?I'm thinking of getting some 285 Star Specs for the rear when I buy some aftermarket wheels.


----------



## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

ROBSGTO said:


> I'm thinking of getting some 285 Star Specs for the rear when I buy some aftermarket wheels.


Amazing tires and worth every penny! Just remember, it's not a drag tire, but more suited for auto x. Great in the rain too.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

ROBSGTO said:


> What tires do you have?I'm thinking of getting some 285 Star Specs for the rear when I buy some aftermarket wheels.


I have Firestone Firehawk Wide Ovals. Firestone is now owned by Bridgestone. They tested very well at TireRack and bested tires like the BFG KDW and had both superior wet and dry handling. Unfortunately they discontinued the 285/40/17 size last year. I'd probably go with a 275/40/17 Potenza RE760 Sport next time


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

i may need new rubber in the rear soon. what would be the best bang for the buck? i dont want to get something pricy and burn it down in no time.

all my work is done, all i am waiting for are the springs...hurry up brown man....285 no issues, now i am considering 295 for my new rubber, but i will have to get the camber adjustments as i will need a slight negative camber adjusted so they fit. 

hey svede, where did you get the camber adjustments from? do you have a pic of the setup, so i can see them. i am wondering how they fit underneath and the way they are installed.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

The camber came by way of fixed Super Pro poly inner and outer control arm bushings. If you're going for high negative camber AND not be burning up rubber you're pulling in 2 different directions. A little helps with handling on corners but too much will wear the tire out prematurely. I believe -1.7 is the maximum recommended and a bit less is better. Remember when the car launches the back end squats and the car rides even harder on the inside rubber and you get less road traction. The adjustable camber bushings (which are usually used to help create LESS negative camber) have had issues with staying tightened and there has been anecdotal stories of them breaking the ears they mount on I believe due to the canted stress they put on them. I wouldn't want them from what I've seen and heard. Also remember that tires go up _and_ down when driving and the camber is changing in any movement. A "narrow" 295 will fit but it will take the right wheel setup and good control of the arm. Nittos are a good value street tire and they run narrow too so a 295 will be like a 285 tread and should fit fine if everything else is right. .


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

here is an update for all who are wondering if and what size they can fit. 285x35x18, fits like a charm on a 18x10.5 wheels in the back. the offset on the wheel is 35 approximately, and the wheels still have an inch between the tire and the lower control arm. plenty of clearance. also, note that with a smaller width, say 9.5, the offset will vary, so do your research.

next rubber i get will be 295/35(i am debating that 295/40 will fit as it's only .4 inches taller, sidewall of the tire that is) and i will have to do a small camber adjustment to the negative. as you can see in the pics, the tires are almost straight up in the air, so no rubbing or weaering off the tire on the inside as the camber is almost 0. NOTE, i am running on stock height lovell springs and they raised the vehicle for about 1.3 inches as the stock springs sagged way too much. these gave me plenty of room for squatting of the rear end. i think that 295/40 will go without much trouble with slight neg camber adjustment. but, also keep in mind that the fender lips are flat out, not 45 degrees as then you may not get the same results. To prove my point, the guy i got the wheels from had a 45 degree lip tuck and was on stock springs, the car sagged so much that it looked like he had it cambered so much into the neg digits that the inside of the tires were worn out and on the outside the tire was still touching the lip as there was a cut visible, not much but present. in my case, with lips gone and and lovells springs the wheels are almost straight up to 90 degrees angle. not to mention the car feels more stable with wider tires. 

since there is not much info on this out there, and it took me like a week to gather all the info to make this right, i thought i share it with you guys....


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

Is that picture with your car on the ground as there is a huge gap at the top. Have you thrown some weight in the back and done some spirited cornering yet? If those are Nittos remember that they run narrow. 285 in another brand will more than likely be wider


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

firebird said:


> here is an update for all who are wondering if and what size they can fit. 285x35x18, fits like a charm on a 18x10.5 wheels in the back. the offset on the wheel is 35 approximately, and the wheels still have an inch between the tire and the lower control arm. plenty of clearance. also, note that with a smaller width, say 9.5, the offset will vary, so do your research.
> 
> next rubber i get will be 295/35(i am debating that 295/40 will fit as it's only .4 inches taller, sidewall of the tire that is) and i will have to do a small camber adjustment to the negative. as you can see in the pics, the tires are almost straight up in the air, so no rubbing or weaering off the tire on the inside as the camber is almost 0. NOTE, i am running on stock height lovell springs and they raised the vehicle for about 1.3 inches as the stock springs sagged way too much. these gave me plenty of room for squatting of the rear end. i think that 295/40 will go without much trouble with slight neg camber adjustment. but, also keep in mind that the fender lips are flat out, not 45 degrees as then you may not get the same results. To prove my point, the guy i got the wheels from had a 45 degree lip tuck and was on stock springs, the car sagged so much that it looked like he had it cambered so much into the neg digits that the inside of the tires were worn out and on the outside the tire was still touching the lip as there was a cut visible, not much but present. in my case, with lips gone and and lovells springs the wheels are almost straight up to 90 degrees angle. not to mention the car feels more stable with wider tires.
> 
> since there is not much info on this out there, and it took me like a week to gather all the info to make this right, i thought i share it with you guys....


You know I thought about it because something didn't sound right and I'm sure there is something wrong here. First off I admire you trying new things but lots and lots of smart people have looked at and attempted different wheel setups. This car has been out for 7½ years and in that time getting a big tire in the back has been a goal especially by serious autocross guys. If you post up in the wheel section over on LS1GTO what you did you'd have to put on a flame suit. The physical dimensions on this car are what they are. I don't want people running out and spending $1,200-$1,500 on wheels only to find they don't work.

I calculated out your reported dimensions. A 10½" wide wheel with a ~35mm offset would stick out 1¾"+ more than a stock wheel and that's not even counting the tire. It doesn't look like that's the case from your picture. Also you could take the lip off to the outside paint on the car and maybe gain half of that. To make a wheel that wide fit you need offsets in the ~50s. With offsets on the outside in that range then to get a 10½" to fit on the inside it would take a hammer to the inner fender and modification to the shock tube and control arm with a perfectly aligned car, you wouldn't get an inch like you see. If you got a fit then something is wrong in what you think you you have. The consensus is that larger offsets and a 9½" wheel will fit comfortability and a 10" will fit with the larger offset and the stars aligning themselves perfectly. I don't know if you're going by what the seller told you what the wheels were or you attempted to measure the width and offset but it just doesn't compute.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

i measured the offset by following wickipedia, i might be off on the offset but i will check again. keep in mind that 9.5 inch wheels, that you have will not be the sam offset as 10.5 because if they do, then that 1 inch will go longer inside and run into the control arm. this is why the hub on wheel will be bigger to bring the wheel to outside.

you can not speak for everyone svede. i am assuming that people did not do this, because no one wanted to pay 1500$ like you said and find out they dont work. they just assumed 10.5 would not work, and when one person did 9.5 everyone else followed their steps. 

now, people around here are slow to respond, and i will assume it's because they have no clue on this and simply they don't care. but i put out an example and that 10.5 with right offset works.

now yes i am running nitto 285 555r, as the tires came with the wheels, but like i said with slight camber nitto 295 will fit and there will not be a need to hammer the inside of the body as they wont touch the inside of the car.

i did not change anything on the car except for springs, took the oem wheels and bolted these right up. like i said earlier, you have to get the lip flat out, if you have a 45 degree tuck, the tire will be touching the lip.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

the pic is with the car on the ground, and gap between the fender and tire is 2 fingers( you can slide 2 fingers in between). like i said in my post keep in mind that i am running the lovells oem height springs and that's why there is room to put even taller tire.

without springs and shocks, the tire tucks in under fender, all the way up as control arm will allow it, without touchin the fender.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

firebird said:


> i measured the offset by following wickipedia, i might be off on the offset but i will check again. keep in mind that 9.5 inch wheels, that you have will not be the sam offset as 10.5 because if they do, then that 1 inch will go longer inside and run into the control arm. this is why the hub on wheel will be bigger to bring the wheel to outside.
> 
> you can not speak for everyone svede. i am assuming that people did not do this, because no one wanted to pay 1500$ like you said and find out they dont work. they just assumed 10.5 would not work, and when one person did 9.5 everyone else followed their steps.
> 
> ...


I'm not assuming. People have done it with wide wheels but not without more modification and many people have spent thousands on wheels too. 285s tires fit. I know that and I'm running a wider 285. It's the wheels. Offset it seems is hard to understand even tho it's fairly simple and even harder to measure. Offset is the distance from the center of the wheel to the hub mounting face. It's hard to measure from the center. A 1" wider wheel only has it's center move 1/2" (the center of a 9.5" is 4.75" and the center of a 10.5" is 5.25"). With the same offset a wheel would be 1/2" wider on both the inside and outside. It's much easier for us to measure backspace. That's the distance from the rim edge to the hub mounting face. A 10.5" wheel with a +35mm offset would have a backspace of roughly 7". That's 5.25" to center + 3.78" (35mm) offset. Guys running *10"* wide drag wheels use a 7.5" backspace to get them to tuck in with trimmed/folded fenders. A 10.5" wide wheel should be even more. Measure the backspace accurately (preferably in mm's) and I'll tell you the offset. Lay a straight edge across the rim and measure up from the mounting hub.

I'm not ragging on you. That whatever you have works for you is fine with me but I don't want someone to run out and buy 10.5" wheels with a +35mm offset. They will more than likely be disappointed. You really should go over to the "other" site (LS1GTO) and check out their wheel section. You'll see that most that wanted to go that wide or wider went to a minitub, shock spacer, etc. If you posted this over there you will get lots of responses. Many people over there understand offset and the challenges of this car and if you have some magic I'm sure many would like to know.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

well obviously you're saying i am full of ****. i am not going to argue with you, but read my previous posts because i will not repeat myself. 
the rim is about 10.3 to 10.4 in in actual size even though they say it's 10.5. it's hard to make one exact to the size from what i heard. 
here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offset_(wheel)

5.15 in.=130.8mm
the back space is about16.4cm=164mm

164-130, is 34, i took a gamble and i am guesing it's 35mm offset. now from what i can see with my naked eye, you could get a 38mm offset to bring the wheel inside a bit and would be a perfect fit, and could get away with rolling the fender only to 45 degree angle. Because that hub on the wheel could actually be a bit smaller as there is an upto an inch of space inside. 

here is question for you smart guy, i like that you are challanging me but you're saying it cannot be done without a tub.

who do you know that tried this, name them/show me those individuals. don't give me a bs people have tried it. i took these wheels off of gto and they worked, they are working on mine now. so i know 2 individuals that run them. 

from your answers here i got the idea that you did not do this yourself, you took it to a shop and had it done for you. that's cool.the people that talked to shops, well, the shops wont fuk around and waste their time on something they won't get paid for. and 9.5 width is the sure thing that they know will work and they will tell you it's pointless to try anything else, because they won't mess around with that unless they get paid big time for it. whether it fits or not, it's up to you, they don't risk it. 2 local shops told me i can not get bigger than 265 when i was searching for rolling tool blah blah.

another thing is, why would you buy the wheels and add backspacing to it, get the right offset to begin with, and you won't need the backspacer to bring the wheels out.

i have done it on mine and works perfect, cut or flat the lip out, just a slight roll ain't gonna do it bro without camber adjuster, but you already did the camber from what i could get from your answers.

i came into this with minimum knowlege but came out knowing at least something. 

now don't come replying to me based on other peoples' opinions if you do not have the facts. i don't give a about it. i want facts, and i am the fact. 

now, if you at any time would like to drop by me near chicago, my door is open to you. we'll have a drink, go for a ride, talk about stuff, and if you get me on my day off, we'll take the wheels off and meassure everything and try fitting them onto your gto. no hard feelings.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

ps, i think that with 10.5 inch rim, anything over 40mm for offset will be shaky and you will need to put the backspacer to bring the wheels out. i think that 38 would be a great fit, but then again i have a 35mm and had to make the lip disappear.


----------



## Falco21 (May 11, 2010)

Is there a purpose for the outburst like that? Svede is a long time member on here, and is part of the founding members of ls1gto and knows his ****. To go out and make comments like that are both redundant and honestly extremely adolescent remarks. He was simply giving his opinion and trying to make sure you do not mess things up. If you want to know who the people are that he is referring to, go take a look on ls1gto like he recommended you do. There are plenty of threads on there that you can read discussing all the tire sizes and optional ways to run bigger tires without issues. With this attitude you might belong better over there anyways. You seem to fit in well with those remarks.

:cheers


----------



## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

Why don't you just look on the inside of the wheel to find the width and offset? It's stamped on the inside somewhere.

I agree they don't look like 10.5's with a 35mm offset. I have 9.5's with a 35mm all around on 265's and they stick out more. My tires are veeeery wide 265's though. Falken Azenis rt-615k. Probably wider than 285 Nittos. Had to roll fenders slightly but have a ton of room inside. Here's some crappy pics to compare.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

like i said no hard feelings. i know svede is long time member. i respect that, and he helped me a lot at the begining. i'm just trying to get the point across that i have the car in the garage, and trying to say something is wrong across the pond so to say, like he is got my car in his garage and knows better. opinion is one thing, but trying to prove own opinion without facts is another thing, especially when someoneelse has the proof that contradicts their opinion.

they look good, but i think my tires stick just a bit more out, not much. 1 inch is not a lot but it is all inside, i'll get some more pics when i get a chance.


----------



## svede1212 (Nov 1, 2005)

<sigh> Somehow I knew this was going to go in this direction. First off I've done everything on my car except weld the mufflers on, install the diff gears and aligned it. I've done every bushing, sway bars, struts, shocks, springs (a couple), drive shaft, brake/line swap, clutches, shifter, headers, cam, heads, injectors, lifters, many intakes and much more plus I do all my own tuning. I've fabricated several different things as well.

I had my stock 8" wheels widened an inch. Knowing what I know now I would have gone 1½" and that's what I'd be comfortable with. Others have done 10s. From the experience of others (the best ideas are stolen ideas ) and my own you should try to get as close to a mid-50s offset on wider wheels to not have problems. The builds on these cars are not tight and because of that what squeaks by on one car may not even be close on another.

Because of the way offset is calculated my offset turned out to be 60.4mm and I used a 5mm wheel spacer to bring it back out for an effective 55.4mm offset. Radical fender lip rolling would have made a 45mm doable. Due to subframe, control arm and tire flex I wouldn't be comfortable bringing the tire in to too close of a proximity. I've seen cars with tight fits and in unguarded moments the owner will fess up that they get "a little" rubbing under certain conditions like loads, bumps or hard cornering. Some will never admit it altho the tires tell a different story in sidewall cuts/scuffs and tread wear. 

BTW you have a 10" wheel. A 10½" wheel outside to outside measures over that just like all the other ones do. Measure your stock 8" and you'll see what I mean. They technically don't count the lips. No hard feelings and I don't think you're a liar. Like I said I want others to be cautious in wheel selection.

I'm out :seeya:


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

good deal, so we're good, no hard feelings here either.

and as far as offset goes, just so everyone else knows, is on the same page, the bigger the offset, the wheeel travels more to the inside towards the center of the vehicle. so for a 9.5 inch wheel 50 will do i guess, haven't tried it, but according to you and others. so 10.5, 1 inch longer, has to have a smaller offset than 9.5 because if you put 50 offset on 10.5 the wheel will be way to far inside and will rub for sure, this is why offset on 9.5 and 10.5 will be different. so to get the 10.5 to fit, you have to get a smaller offset because the wheel is wider. i hope this helps you understand it better.

and i meassured the wheel on the floor, it reads about 10.4'' from one lip to other.


----------



## firebird (Feb 6, 2011)

ok last update to this thread...

took the wheel off yesterday and it does say 35. so i took some extra measuring and came to conclusion that on 10.5 width, an ideal offset would be 40-42. so if anyone is interested in 10.5 these are the offsets that you will need if you want to fit the wheels in without any issues. now if you want to fit 285, get 42mm offset. and if you want 295, get the 38-40 mm offset. and remeber that if you get the bigger offset, you can always backspace it, and lower the offset...

i'm out, my work here is done.


----------



## 87GN06GTO07IRL (Aug 10, 2009)

firebird said:


> took the wheel off yesterday and it does say 35.


The width will also be stamped close to that.


----------

