# New member, new GTO, many issues



## 69_RA-IV (Oct 6, 2015)

I hate to make my 1st post a plea for help, but...
The Dash has been removed for paint (the wrong color) and wasn't rewired properly. I've sorted most of it out, but still have a few questions.

In the first pic there is an orange plug with a brown wire going into the fusebox...looks to be where it should fit, but is it? Speaking of the fusebox, the top left bus is very loose?

In pic 2 there's an orange and brown wire in a connecter and I can't figure out where it goes.

In pic 3 there is an orange/black wire that should attach to the ash tray courtesy light, and I think the white/black goes to the console courtesy lamp...is that correct?

Well, I had a couple more pics and questions, but they won't upload, so they'll have to wait. I appreciate any help y'all can give me.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

69_RA-IV said:


> I hate to make my 1st post a plea for help, but...
> The Dash has been removed for paint (the wrong color) and wasn't rewired properly. I've sorted most of it out, but still have a few questions.
> 
> In the first pic there is an orange plug with a brown wire going into the fusebox...looks to be where it should fit, but is it? Speaking of the fusebox, the top left bus is very loose?
> ...



The best way to figure out any wiring situation is to order yourself a wiring diagram. It may be helpful in the future as well. Ames sells both chassis manuals and wiring diagrams.

If you do a search in the forums, there is a pdf scan of the '69. Search "GTO Wiring Diagram scans" by poster Joust. :thumbsup:


----------



## 69_RA-IV (Oct 6, 2015)

*More questions*

All due respect PontiacJim. I tried to order the service manual which should contain them, and got the assembly manual instead which does include some, but finding them and reading them is a challenge. Like I said I've tried to sort as much of this out as I can on my own...was hoping for some quick help. I'll search for the diagram and see if it helps.

I finally got the other pics to load...
Pic 1. Pink and Orange wires in a connector that goes...?
Pic 2. Dangling black and white wires with plain connectors on the end. You can see in the pic where they come out of the harness.
Pic 3. An idiot-proof connector, but the wire colors are different, so not sure that's right.

And that's it for wiring pics, but not for wiring problems. I've replaced the entire rear light harness all the way to the dash, but only have brake lights with the lights off. Very confused as to why. Any help there?

Pic 4. I (very easily) removed the Hurst Shifter handle from it's receiver. The tab on the inside has been sheared off. I've spent a while trying to track down this part today with no luck. I guess I've called all the wrong people. Any idea who might carry this shifter handle receiver?


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

This guy on Ebay sells laminated/colored wiring diagrams which may be much better to read and follow than the factory manual. 1969 69 Pontiac GTO LeMans Tempest 11" x 17" Laminated Color Wiring Diagram | eBay 

Keep in mind that not all wires will lead to anything as the harness is made to include hook-ups for other options and accessories. Some of these may indeed not show up on a basic wire schemetic and are sometimes seen in "part specific" wiring hook-ups.

An Ohm meter should allow you to test one end of the wire in question with one lead, and then use the other lead to trace where it may terminate -whether the fuse block or somewhere else in the car's electrical system. Have your battery disconnected to do this. You are simply observing the needle on the Ohm meter to see when the needle jumps to verify/find the other end source.

Sometimes the wire colors do indeed change at the plug, so a blue/white stripe wire may go into the plug, then an orange/black strip may be the wire leading out and going to whatever the end terminates into. Generally they are the same, but not always.

The Ohm meter also doubles as a 12V tester. Here you hook up your battery and test the wires in question to see if any are showing 12V with the key off. You will probably have to have the key on or to the accessory position for some, while others, may come on when you pull your headlight switch on.

My '68 wiring diagram shows a grey wire for the ash tray courtesy light, but the same grey wire is also used for the heater and radio lamp. That brown wire plug-in on the fuse box appears to be the hazzard flasher wire that goes to the steering column. Now yours may be completely different.

Without a good wiring diagram, it will be more difficult and time consuming, but tracing wires with the Ohm meter is about all you can do short of tearing wire harnesses apart.

The fuse does look loose on the upper left. Those fuse prongs spread or lose their "spring" due to age/corrosion/rust. My '68 had a couple bad one like that and were loose. I rigged mine to work, but it would arc at times and blow the fuse, so not the way to go. I think they can be replaced, but I think you will have to pull/separate the fuse block so you can gt at it from the back. I would contact one of the many repro wiring companies or the major Pontiac suppliers and see what they suggest.

Brake lights. Sounds like you have a short or bad ground. Did you install all new light sockets at the rear bumper? Pull the connector at where you plug it in at the harness from the dash going back. Get a length of wire and connect one end to a known 12V power source and then insert the other end into each of the individual wires which power the taillights. You should be able to then light up the taillights/brake lights, side marker lights, license plate light, and back-up lights by applying 12V to each of those wires going back. You should be able to use the wiring diagram to do this so you know which wires luminate what light. If all your lights work, non are out or anyone is brighter than any other, then your problem is forward of the connector. Then you have to trace from the dash side of the plug forward using the Ohm/voltage meter. 

The shifter. Have you contacted Hurst? They have a website and do rebuild original shifters to factory new. They may be able to help. :thumbsup:


----------



## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I have one of the laminated schematics for my 69 GTO, I highly recommend it.

I will mention that before I did get the schematic I found the same wiring diagrams at my local library in the reference books.


----------



## 68GTO4004Spd (Jun 19, 2008)

Look in the sticky's above this thread, there are all kinds of wiring diagrams in there.


----------



## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

In over 35 years of working on cars, I have NEVER found a 'quick and easy' method when working with electrical systems. It is always slow, methodical, and always requires a GOOD wiring diagram. There is no 'close enough' or 'that's probably the one' with electrical. It's too detail oriented, and there is too much at stake.


----------



## 69_RA-IV (Oct 6, 2015)

Thanks folks, Jim especially. That was a lot of helpful information. I've already ordered the 11x17 full color schematic. That will be immensely helpful.

I appreciate the Ohm and 12V testing info. I have already used those methods to connect some of the mess I found before. We are considering replacing every bit of wiring in the car. We already did the rear light harness to the dash, and I think next up may have to be the dash harness. 

I'm afraid with the brake lights you may be right in that it's forward of the under-dash connection. I've triple checked the grounds, but still brake lights with the lights off, and when the lights are on it lights up both the running and brake lights, so no brake lights...nevermind for now the reverse lights aren't working.

And, no, in a lapse of stupidity I did indeed not contact Hurst, but I found the part I need in the OPG catalog (called them and they couldn't find it) and I'm putting in a big order today, so I'll include it in that...one problem solved.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

"I'm afraid with the brake lights you may be right in that it's forward of the under-dash connection. I've triple checked the grounds, but still brake lights with the lights off, and when the lights are on it lights up both the running and brake lights, so no brake lights...nevermind for now the reverse lights aren't working."


Jim --- There is a brake light switch at the brake pedal. These not only go bad, but out of adjustment. They are typically plastic, and it is a round plunger type switch that operates sorta like your door switch that turns your courtesy lamp on and off when you open and close your doors. The plastic threads can slip, thus moving the switch where it may not be making correct contact and you brake lights will stay on. If the switch is bad, sometimes the little plunger will stick inside the switch body - brake light will be on.

It sounds like your running lights are working fine. Its the brake lights that seem to be the problem, right? My money is on the brake switch. Have had several go bad. You can buy these easy enough as a replacement. Might even get one local at your local parts store - It is a common GM brake switch. If not, all Pontiac vendors have them.

You can also test the power wire going into the switch while under there, but it is probably working as you have the brake lights. 

Reverse lights, as I recall, work off an external switch on the trans when you put the 4-speed in reverse, same style as the brake light switch.


----------



## 69_RA-IV (Oct 6, 2015)

Yeah the brake light switch was the first thing to be replaced before we bothered with doing the entire rear light harness. It indeed was out of adjustment, the bracket it was attached to was very loose, and the switch was bad at that. No luck with replacing it though. It's functioning as it should. I think that for some reason both filaments in the rear light bulbs are lit up with the running lights, so applying the brakes can't possibly turn on the extra filaments that are already on.

I thought the same about the reverse light switch, but couldn't find anything externally anywhere near the reverse linkage. When I look in the catalogs it seems to be mounted to the bottom of the steering column like they are on automatics, but that makes no sense to me. What would switch it on?

Anyhow, thanks for all the help. I really do appreciate it.


----------



## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

Reverse light switch on '69-74's is the smaller version, fits in the same spot as the larger '69-72 automatic reverse light switch. The small switch is how you can tell if an old dirty dusty column came out of a 3 spd floor shift or 4 speed car (!there is a rectangular color coded paper part number tag, as well).

The switch is engaged by the back drive linkage. Upper back drive linkage rod attaches through the bushing in the end of the dog leg shaped lower leg on column. The short rod goes down to the swivel, then a lower rod goes back to the special lever that mounts off the reverse lever attachment point on the Muncie transmission. Original manual transmission upper and lower "back drive" rods are very tough to find. Many were chunked when early owners added headers. The rods have been reproduced, but they don't have the small 4 digits stamped into them like originals. The rest of the manual trans back drive pieces, the swivel, lever, and believe lower rod for '69-72's are reproduced by Mike Garrison, "Mr Buick" in Topeka KS. Miike can be found on on v8buick.com


----------



## LouCabra (Jul 20, 2015)

I've been going through some of the same wiring issues. My headlights and break lights worked fine, but no blinkers or running lights (front and rear) did not. Check grounds everywhere and all seemed grounded, check all sockets and all seemed ok, tried new light switch and still nothing. Then I pulled the light switch harness from the switch and jumpered a 12v battery. Ground ed to the dash and put positive to each of the harness wires (one at a time). turn signals lit up, running light lit up, etc. So every thing worked ok at the harness. Plugged the harness back in and nothing. Got another light switch and still nothing. Eventually I sprayed electrical cleaner in the harness, scuffed the terminals up a little, and put so di-electic grease on the switch prongs. Plugged the harness in and… Lights! still working a few months later.

Also had problems with rusty fuse holders that wouldn't make contact with the fuses. every other day I would have to pull a fuse and put it back in for it to contact. Used a brass wire brush in a Dremel tool and cleaned inside the little clips that hold the fuse, a dab of di-electitric grease and again, still working after a couple months.


----------



## 69_RA-IV (Oct 6, 2015)

Pinionhead, Thank you for telling me how that works. None of those rods are present and the headers on the care look pretty ancient, so I figure what you mention is exactly what happened. I guess they won't fit on with headers? Any way to make the rods work around the headers, or do I just need to rig up a toggle switch to turn them on?

LouCabra, Thanks for the suggestions. I've been cleaning the connections the best I could with a bristle brush, but I think you're dremel suggestion might work better. I'll also get some di-electric grease, that's easy enough to find, but I don't remember seeing "electric cleaner" anywhere. Hardware store or auto store carry that kind of thing I guess?


----------



## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

69_RA-IV said:


> ... Any way to make the rods work around the headers, or do I just need to rig up a toggle switch to turn them on?


There's almost always "a way" if you want it bad enough. It may involve using a hybrid combination of the factory parts and custom made pieces to re-route things around the headers, but I bet it's possible. Personally, I think it's worth the effort but you get to make that call. The back drive on my 69 with headers is fully functional. I did have to "reconfigure" the linkage by rebending the rod into a completely different shape to get around things, but it works. Granted, my car is an automatic and not a 4-speed, but I still bet it's doable.

Bear


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

69_RA-IV said:


> Pinionhead, Thank you for telling me how that works. None of those rods are present and the headers on the care look pretty ancient, so I figure what you mention is exactly what happened. I guess they won't fit on with headers? Any way to make the rods work around the headers, or do I just need to rig up a toggle switch to turn them on?



Looking at the '68 chassis manual, you might want to solve your switch issue by using the '68 GTO or '68 Firebird back-up switch. The GTO/Lemans/Tempest with 4-speed has the switch/bracket located on the bottom back of the shifter that is activated by the reverse lever. The Firebird has a bracket bolted to the 4-speed transmission itself that holds the back-up switch and works off the reverse lever. Either of these switch mounts would work and you would not have to worry about the '69 type linkage rods & header problems. You may want to consider this as an option. :thumbsup:


----------



## 69_RA-IV (Oct 6, 2015)

Thanks Jim and Bear! I'll look into both of your ideas for possible solutions.


----------



## Pinion head (Jan 3, 2015)

the header back drive challenge will take some experimentation with modifying generic rods. On converting to '68 back up light switch, the bracket that holds the switch is part of the sandwich of pieces that slide into the shifter body. Below, for reference, is a link to a well used '68 Pontiac A body bare shifter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HURST-SHIFT...-68-/161835540528?hash=item25ae266030&vxp=mtr

In two of my parts tubs, have complete '68 and '69 Firebird Hurst 4 spd shifters. the '68 has the same steel insert as the eBay shifter and the '68 Bird linkage has the "kicker" on the reverse lever. The switch itself slides into a thin stamped steel clip that goes in the hole in the bracket, similar to how brake light and cruise switches mount. Will try and get some pics.


----------



## PontiacJim (Dec 29, 2012)

From the 1968 Pontiac manual showing both the GTO & Firebird reverse switch mount and location on the 4-speed. Much cleaner and simpler way to mount it than the '69 system. :thumbsup:


----------

