# 1969 RA3 Judge



## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

Have a chance to go look at a 69' RA3 Judge carousel red in need of a full restore, supposedly all #'s matching original car. I am waiting on a call back to get details on options (will add when i get them), word of mouth is it's production #0049. is there anywhere that i can find total production numbers of RAIII cars? Next question value after restore?


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## Tambo (Aug 15, 2011)

You can find info here ... 1969 Pontiac GTO Production Figures and Specifications
The site lists 69 Judge RA 111 production at 787 units.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

When you going to look at it? The suspense is killing me. Take pics!


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## Pontiacpurebrred (Jun 22, 2011)

:willy: YES YES, pictures updates, suspense is killing me. How much do they want for it? Details man, details!!! :willy:


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

well i got over to take a look at it today, it is as stated an all original numbers matching RAIII car with power brakes and steering, M-20 4 speed console with hood tach, Nodular 3:55 rear end, deluxe seatbelts and under dash hood release, and no dash judge emblem.The build # is 00040 of the original run of 2000 in carousel red, PHS documented. Now for the bad news, it will need a complete floor pan and trunk, the frame rails behind the rear end hump are GONE!!!, looks like some idiot left a battery sitting in the trunk and it ate the pan, gas tank, frame and up to the rear edge of the deck lid. The roof and window channels are solid, quarters will need at least a half patch panel and at least lower fender patches, doors may be salvageable, inner wheel houses in the rear, basically a complete restoration. The interesting part is that the original seats and springs show no wear and do not look like they have been sat in much aside from one tear on the side of the drivers seat back not from wear. Also the trans and shifter feel tight as the day it was installed, the white knob with the correct 3 shows no wear. I really would like to know the story on this car, curious with the low build # and being near Pontiac if it wasn't a press car, Executive of PMD or something of the sort. The odometer reads 15,000?? . Guy is asking 16,500 but will come down.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Offer 11500 and break out the cutting torch!


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## ALKYGTO (Mar 29, 2010)

I read somewhere that all PMD press release and executive cars had the underdash hood release. Very rare to see one of these with that "option". 

Looks like a lot of work, good God I hate rust.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

that and the condition of the interior was what got me thinking Alky. I am gonna check the VIN in the Judge registry and see if they have any documentation on it. I know the RAIV is more rare but would the low prod. number make this car more valuable?


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## GTO JUDGE (May 14, 2005)

With regards to the missing Judge emblem on the glovebox door. Long story short: Some early Judges were missing them because the promotion department didn't like them and omitted them. When J.D. got wind of this he demanded they be installed. The emblem had to be ordered and in the meantime the car was still being built. Once the emblems were received they were installed on the production line. Those built without remained omitted. Low production numbered car will reflect this. 

Ball park figure IMO: 14K for car another 30K to restore it, 50K car when finished more if its a total nut and bolt resto. Is it worth the time and investment to you?

Recently a matching number Judge (friend of mine sold) 1970. He let it go for 26K after it not selling on ebay multiple times. I didn't know he dropped the price that much or I would have bought it. What is the long term plan on this car? Will you lose interest in it 2 years down the road like many do then want to sell it and hope to break even. Investment? You'll not get your $$ out of it for a long time. Many years restoring it to drive it with 40K at least in it?


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

had to go take a look when i heard about it from a buddy, a little more than i think i want to take on, money and work wise. I figured it would be around break even, but the history intrigues me. Am i right in thinking that the 00040 means the 40th GTO not Judge, that could make it one of the very first Judges. If i were to pull the trigger it would be complete nuts and bolts resto, and yes i have the patients time and cash (no space at the moment), and access to a full welding shop. It would be a once in a while cruiser, with the Tempest being my main summer wheels. Only way i would consider it is if it where a "special" car. Long term for my Poncho is to keep and pass it (them) down to my daughters, literally soaked in my blood ,sweat and tears they are a part of me now. I am looking for a project for next winter when i get slow....the other candidate is a 69' 400 firebird white with black vinyl top my machinist has from Arizona, he is being a little cagey, but i think i can pry it out of his hands, we will see, not in a rush too busy working right now.


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## geeteeohguy (Feb 2, 2008)

I agree with GTOJUDGE: the value is there, but not immediate. It's too rusty for me, that's for sure, but Judges for under 20k that are original are not growing on trees. '69 is my favorite year for the Judge, and the fact that it's early is a bonus. If you could get it for around 10 or 11k you'd do fine. It's a big challenge, but the end result would be worth it in a lot of ways. Interesting car, nonetheless, and thanks for the photos!!
Jeff


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

If 00040 really does mean the 40th GTO, then there has to be at least the possibility that what you've found there is the *first* Judge ever built. I'd sure try to nail that down and find out... if that's the case then surely it would be worth tons.

Bear


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

even if it was a early press car featured in a magazine that could be documented...i wish i had taken my camera with the flash, i just had my phone as i went while i was running estimates last minute. I have NEVER seen an original interior this clean except in brochures aside from sheer age and dust. no spring bulge mid seat drivers side, the M-20 and hurst shifter look (handle and down under the boot)and feel new when you run it through the gears. It is a stark contrast to the exterior, wish i had the time to thoroughly research this car the owner had 3 69's a standard which was supposed to be a donor for this one which he just sold, the Judge and a RAIV original with matching non numbers block, so he has an idea what he has, but is moving and does not have space. My thinking now is even if it's break even as a judge it could pan out to be one of those cars with the proper detective work....HMMMMM, i will try to have him send me good pics of the interior.


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## FlambeauHO (Nov 24, 2011)

Buy it!


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