# need some Mastercylinder, brake booster, and brake line advice



## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

I just ordered this front disc brake kit.

Baer Disc Brake Systems 4301381R - Baer Brakes Baer Claw Track Disc Brake Kits - Application - SummitRacing.com

I would like to know which out of the box mastercylinder and proportioning valve would do well. I'm trying not to spend 500 or more on this thing. I'm thinking I would like to stay chrome, and if possible, would like to be able to maintain the rear drums on the 10 bolt for the time being. in addition to all of this, I will need to replace all hard lines and soft lines except the front soft lines, what is the best front to back kit out there? 

I just got done spending a bunch of extra money on this car. and I found a 455 out of a buick riviera in good condition that if you guys think is worth it, would freshen up and get ready to pull that pontiac 350 out. would like to know opinions and thoughts and suggestions. 

thanks guys
phillip

PS, it is good to be home.


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## Instg8ter (Sep 28, 2010)

hold out for a pontiac 455 or pick up a 400 and stroke it to 462 (stronger than 455 because of smaller main journals). you can pep up the 350 if its a pontiac while your building the dream motor and use the bolt ons all the way up to the 455 (headers, intake, etc.).


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

Denison, really? Hey, I'm just down the road from you in Garland. (Welcome home, BTW).

For a master, I like the Corvette style. I'm running one on my 69. I got the mc brand new at NAPA, spec'ed for a 69 Corvette with power disc brakes. Mine's plain old cast iron and not chrome, but you can find the same one in chrome "various places' on the 'net. It's a popluar cylinder to use on all kinds of applications. For my prop valve I'm using one of the Wilwood adjustable ones, tucked up inside the frame rail on the driver's side.

Bear


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

yep Denison, TX. I'll be around on the weekends Bear. 

Inst8ter. I can get the 455 with the tranny for 500 bucks complete....don't know that I can pass that up. I know it's not the pontiac, but I could wait for it as well I would think. the 455 out of this motor made like 500 tq. just only made 240 hp or so. 

so basically I should just check out a local parts place for the master cylinders (ie oreilly's, Napa, Autozone, Advance.)


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## Mr. P-Body (Jan 20, 2011)

Virginiavenom,

While the price of the Buick engine may be "attractive", what it takes to make it A) fit and B) "run", is NOT trivial. Both the Pontiac and Olds 455s are "right there" with the Buick for torque (4 or 5 lb. ft. is NOTHING). The Pontiac will far-and-away make more power and be more reliable than either the Buick or the Olds. (Relax, Buick and Olds guys, I've built many of both...)

Today, we don't "like" 455 as well as 400. The 400 block is actually tougher and MUCH easier to find. A '67-'75 block will do nicely. Add a "stroker kit" to get to te 455 CID range. You end up with a "better" 455. Smaller mains, longer rods... 

Welcome back to the "world". Thank you for your service!

FWIW

Jim


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

Tuff Stuff Performance 2127NA - Tuff Stuff Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Combos - Suggested Parts - SummitRacing.com

would this work for my application? and if so, what else would I need short of hard lines, and would I be able to maintain my rear drums?


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

Mr. P-Body I appreciate the insight. I will look into finding a pontiac 400 elsewhere. I might strike gold somewhere.


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

and I'm assuming most mastercylinder/booster combinations for a power disc brake setup will use the motors vacuum correct?


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

virginiavenom said:


> and I'm assuming most mastercylinder/booster combinations for a power disc brake setup will use the motors vacuum correct?


True, nost power brake systems do use a vacuum assisted booster, but not all of them do. 

If you're running a rowdy cam that doesn't make enough idle vacuum to power the brakes, then you've got to do "something else". They all have their good and bad points. You can opt for manual brakes, or you can run an external electric vacuum pump, or you can run a hydroboost system. Hydroboost replaces the vacuum brake booster with one that instead uses hydraulic pressure, usually obtained by plumbing it into the power steering system and running it off the power steering pump. 

I'm running a hydroboost setup on my 69, but instead of buying a "kit" to make the conversion I sourced my own parts from NAPA and engineered my own - for about half the cost of what a kit would have been. I kept decent records of part numbers and took photos, if anyone wants to replicate what I did.

Bear


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

bear, if I remember correctly, you are running the same front kit I am....or was that someone else? I would like to see those part number records if you don't mind. I have a "mild" cam. I've not heard the engine run yet, so I would rather err on the side of caution and know I will have brakes. I do have power steering, so that should make things easier I would imagine. 

but out of curiosity, when you say external electric vacuum pump, what would that require besides obviously the pump? any major precautions of one or the other?


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

nevermind on the vacuum pump idea, that is ridiculous prices. should I get the car running before I determine whether it has enough vacuum, and how much vacuum at idle would be required for good brakes? or should I not bother and just go hydraulic?


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

got with Baer directly. got a good price for the rear disc kit, proportioning valve, all lines, distribution block, 9" vacuum booster, and shallow bore master cylinder. Baer forwarded me to a restoration company (Matt's classic bowties) and put me in contact with the owners wife Kim. she knew her stuff and put together a complete front to back kit for me with everything I needed minus the front Baer kit I had already purchased. so I should be good to go. when I get all the parts and get to putting it together I'll let you know. she said everything should be direct bolt on, no bending or flairing, everything is done, just have to unroll the coil on the hard lines on a table, and should be easy after that.


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## BearGFR (Aug 25, 2008)

virginiavenom said:


> nevermind on the vacuum pump idea, that is ridiculous prices. should I get the car running before I determine whether it has enough vacuum, and how much vacuum at idle would be required for good brakes? or should I not bother and just go hydraulic?


Hydroboost, even a self-engineered system like mine, is going to be the same or more cost than a pump. I chose it because even if the engine fails, there's enough residual pressure in the unit for a few stops. Vacuum doesn't "store" very well so the electric pumps I've been told will cycle on and off occasionally even when you're not using your brakes.

That said, pumps are easier to install.

As far as how much vacuum is enough, I never got a clear answer to that myself. It may be one of those "it depends" deals where what some folks are willing to live with, others aren't. My impression is that "somewhere around" 15 to 17 inches is the lower limit. My motor makes around 12 cold, 13 to 14 when it's warm, so I decided not to take the chance.

Bear


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## virginiavenom (Feb 20, 2011)

bear what is your motor combination? I have a pontiac 350 with a mild cam. the guy I talked to on the phone said 12-15 would be more than enough.


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